Paul Preston
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INTERVIEWING PAUL PRESTON MARCEL PROUST CHAIR OF THE EUROPEAN AND IBERO-AMERICAN ACADEMY OF YUSTE Enrique Moradiellos: We would like to thank Professor Paul Preston on behalf of the European and Ibero-American Academy of Yuste Foundation for agreeing to have this virtual talk, which will later be printed in the Foundation’s newsletter. Professor Preston is probably the best Hispanist −of course British and Anglophone− in active employment. He is a worthy heir to a saga that will shortly turn a hundred years at the hands of previous Hispanists, in particular Gerald Brenan, the author of the great book entitled The Spanish Labyrinth, published in 1943, in the middle of the World War. Professor Preston was born three years after the publication of that book, in 1946, in Liverpool, in a time of a very harsh post-world war, a time of deprivation, hardship and misery that, however, also had the positive side of seeing the beginning of the process of European integration, of overcoming the antagonisms of continental countries, which has led us to the present European Union. Moreover, in that same year, former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill gave his famous and renowned speech in Zurich appealing to a union of European states, which he called the United States of Europe, as the only remedy to avoid a new continental war; a union that could promote peace, progress and well-being by avoiding the horrors of the past. Seventy years later, in 2006, Professor Preston joined the European and Ibero-American Academy of Yuste as a member, occupying the Marcel Proust Chair. Welcome to this talk at your home, at the European and Ibero-American Academy of Yuste. How was your interest in the history of Spain forged? What ended up making you what you are today: the most renowned Hispanist in the world? Paul Preston: It was a chain of events. As you pointed out, I was born in 1946 in Liverpool, a city very much punished by the blitz (the German aerial bombardments in the world war) as it was the port of entry of American supplies. I remember from my childhood that there was a lot of rubble left in the city and that many of the adult conversations were on the subject, which meant that children played Germans against British. At school, I did not study Spanish and I had no background in the history of Spain. I also remember that when I got older, one of my hobbies was to build World War II plane mockups. Later, I began to read books about the war, but more than about the war itself I NEWSLETTER OF THE ACADEMY OF YUSTE Nº 09. October 2020 1 ISSN 2695-7027 was interested in its origins and why that catastrophe had occurred. I was then lucky enough to get a scholarship to study at Oxford University. It should be borne in mind that at the time it was not normal for a working-class boy from the north of England to come to Oxford, so it was a great opportunity for me. At Oxford, I learned many things, although I have to say that the degree in Modern History, which was what interested me, focused a lot on British constitutional history and little on contemporary history, so I was left longing to study more about World War II. When I finished my undergraduate degree, I had doubts about what I was going to do, but I was sure I wanted to do some research concerning the origins of the world conflict. I only knew a little French, but I did not feel like digging deeper into French history. Then the opportunity to go to the University of Reading came up, where a graduate school had been created and I could do a master’s degree focused on the history of the interwar period. Also, luckily, the structure of one of the subjects allowed you to carry out a double research and two dissertations, and one of them was about the Spanish Civil War. I knew practically nothing about this subject; I had only done a term paper at Oxford. However, I was so lucky that the teacher of the subject was Hugh Thomas, the great expert on the Spanish Civil War at the time (he had published his famous homonymous work in 1961), besides being a fantastic and fun teacher. In class we were four students and that allowed different people to come to tell us their life experience as, for instance, the admiral who had commanded the British navy during the siege of Bilbao and a volunteer of the Condor Legion. All this made me very interested in the Spanish conflict and I began to read everything I could on the subject in English. However, I soon realised the need I had to learn Spanish, so I became friends with some Colombian college students, who I had a great time with, and this allowed me to learn Spanish better and travel to Spain. That is how the story of my relationship with Spain and its history began. E.M.: When mentioning Hugh Thomas, you are referring to one of the teachers who you have always admitted has influenced your training. However, judging from some of your writings, there were also two other masters in your academic life: Raymond Carr and Herbert R. Southworth. To what extent did these two personalities shape your interest in Spanish issues? P.P.: My relationship with Raymond Carr was quite complex. My former pupil and dear colleague, Professor Helen Graham, could say the same. Deep down, I think Raymond was not very comfortable interacting with working-class people, because he was a bit elitist. Going back to the question: when I finished NEWSLETTER OF THE ACADEMY OF YUSTE Nº 09. October 2020 2 ISSN 2695-7027 my MA in Reading, I returned to Oxford to do my Phd with Raymond. It turned out, however, that he had taken a sabbatical leave and had gone to the United States, so I got a director who knew nothing about the history of Spain. And here I make an excursus: with my doctoral students I have always followed the maxim "from the cradle to the grave" (accompanying them throughout their research and following their progress from the beginning to the end). Returning to the subject, I must point out that the one who really helped me to do the doctoral thesis was Joaquín Romero Maura, who was the assistant professor of Raymond Carr, one of the smartest people I have ever met in my life. In sum, at the time of writing my thesis I did not relate much with Raymond Carr, although later we did have a closer and more direct relationship. Before reading my thesis, I had published an article on the monarchical conspirators in the Second Spanish Republic in a fairly important journal called the Journal of Contemporary History. On that occasion, I asked Hugh Thomas whom I should send an offprint to in case someone should be interested. He mentioned Herbert R. Southworth. I hesitated and said to myself: how can I send it to him if he is like the great inquisitor? Because he had already published the book El mito de la cruzada de Franco (The Myth of Franco’s Crusade) (1963), a very harsh book against the Francoists. However, I sent it to him and I received a really moving letter that came to say: My friend, at last, it has been decades before arriving to this point. After that, I felt as if he had made me his heir. I visited him often and he became my teacher, a sort of adoptive father with whom I had an incredibly affectionate relationship for many years. When he got sick, I called him almost every day and when he died one of the things I thought was: how awful! The amount of wisdom that has died with this man, because what he knew about the period of the Spanish civil war was incredible, since he had worked in the press service of the Republic being in Washington and in New York. If I were to say which of my teachers I owe more to, I would certainly say to Herbert R. Southworth. E.M.: In terms of academic career, once you decided that your vocation was to be a Hispanic historian, you were a professor at the University of Reading, from there you went to Queen Mary College of the University of London and finally to the Chair "Cañada Blanch Príncipe de Asturias" of the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE). Throughout this career, how have you seen that the university teaching of Spanish history has changed from the vantage point of retirement? How to look at that long academic professional life career? NEWSLETTER OF THE ACADEMY OF YUSTE Nº 09. October 2020 3 ISSN 2695-7027 P.P.: There is not much I can say about Reading University, because I only substituted Hugh Thomas for a short time. At that time, I was still an apprentice. From the time of Queen Mary College in London I have some fantastic memories. I found it a very pleasant and welcoming institution. In many universities, and more at prensent, the environment can be toxic because of the great rivalry that exists to get financial funds or teaching places. But Queen Mary College was like a family I have fond memories of. During the years I spent there, from 1975 to 1991, at least in the history department, there was a family atmosphere and I had a great time.