REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF TYNWALD COURT Douglas, Wednesday, October 19, 1977 at 10.30 a.m. Present: The Governor (Sir John Paul, (3) That Tynwald authorises the Trea- G.C.M.G., O.B.E., M.C.). In the Council: surer of the Isle of Man to advance out of The Lord Bishop (the Rt. Rev. Vernon capital moneys during the year ending 31st Nicholls), the Attorney-General (Mr. J. W. March 1978 a sum not exceeding £250,000 to meet the cost of the above proposal. Corrin), Sir John Bolton, O.B.E., Messrs. G. T. Crellin, E. N. Crowe, O.B.E., R. E. S. (4) That Tynwald approves of and sanc- Kerruish, J. C. Nivison, W. E. Quayle, tions borrowings not exceeding £250,000 being made by Government, such borrowings A. H. Simcocks, M.B.E., with Mr. T. A. to be repaid within a period of 30 years. Bawden, Clerk of the Council. In the Keys: The Speaker (the Hon. IL C. Kerruish, Your Excellency, the Steering Committee O.B.E.), Messrs. R. J. G. Anderson, W. K. of Tynwald dealing with transport have had Quirk, J. J. Radcliffe, P. Radcliffe, J. N. a report prepared and circulated to mem- Radcliffe, Dr. E. J. Mann, Messrs. A. A. bers, firstly stating the history leading up Catlin, R. .L. Watterson, E. G. Lowey, to the question of the Isle of Man Railway. M. R. Walker, N. Q. Cringle, Mrs. E. C. Members will recall that it was run for Quayle, Messrs. W. A. Moore, E. M. Ward, many years and subsequently stopped run- B.E.M., P. A. Craine, D. F. K. Delaney, ning because it became uneconomic, and E. C. Irving, Mrs. B. Q. Hanson, Messrs subsequently started again by the help of T. E. Kermeen, I.S.O., R. MacDonald, J. J. Lord Ailsa and, in turn, it was run by the Christian, G. C. Swales, with R. B. M. company, with the help of Government and Quayle, Clerk of Tynwald. the company had issued to the Steering Committee the desire that we should come to an early decision, either to continue to STEAM RAILWAY—REPORT OF subsidise the railway by a long-term agree- STEERING COMMITTEE RECEIVED; ment, or to purchase the railway. We added PURCHASE BY GOVERNMENT that we would come to a decision, and we — APPROVED. pledged Tynwald we would come to a decision by this October to do one of those The Governor: Hon. members, I under- things or to recommend to Tynwald that stand that the Chairman of the Local this was something which Tynwald should Government Board is not yet ready to reply not be interested in at all. We have come to the debate on item 17 on the Agenda down firmly, after taking evidence from which we deferred from yesterday, and various sources, that the railway is a therefore we will start with item number desirable thing for the Isle of Man and 21 and I call on the Chairman of the Tynwald, in fact, instructed us that we Steering Committee. should open negotiations with the company for acquiring the land, buildings and rolling- Mr. Nivison: Your Excellency, 1 beg to stock necessary to run the railway between move:— Douglas and Port Erin and we did appoint (1) That the Report of the Steering Com- valuers, and the railway company in turn mittee on Transport on the Isle of Man appointed their valuers. We were very happy Steam Railway be received. to have assisting our Mr. Ennett the valuers (2) That Tynwald approves the purchase from the well-known firm of Cystal Bros., of that amount of land, buildings, track, locomotives, rolling stock, fixtures and fit- Stott and Kerruish and we had also the tings as set out in paragraph 7.1 of the services of valuers in connection with the Report for the sum of £250,000. rolling-stock, the best people that were Steam Railway—Report of Steering Committee Received; Purchase by Government— Approved. T77 TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 19, 1977 obtainable, and the railway company did into the question of the cost for the future similar and they both got together. We because we thought that Tynwald, if they should say that in approaching this situation were purchasing something, would have to we were aware that, or, rather we were of know too what would be the cost sub- the opinion that, Tynwald were probably sequently of running the railway. The esti- the only people who would purchase this mated deficiency was £41,000, we had down railway. We were of the opinion that, in a figure of an operating deficiency of some- fact, we were not of the opinion, we were thing like £25,000, this may be too small, absolutely sure, that it was not a viable but it was thought with energetic running proposition. This had been proved beyond of a railway of this kind it may well be any question of doubt, run by the company reduced, we do not want to present too themselves, and it had been run by us bad a picture. We also know that in the assisting, and it was not a viable proposition. future if the railway was run by an organisa- We were also aware that the assets associated tion within Tynwald, or without Tynwald, with the company in some cases — par- there would be the capital charge of, say, ticularly the Douglas station was quite a 10 per cent. on the £250,000, plus some valuable site, but we were also aware that amount to repay that, and it could well there were a lot of liabilities associated with come to £27,000 a year. Then we went into a railway company in the provision of the the question of the maintenance of the keeping up of the fences, the drainage, the bridges, fences, ditches, et cetera, and we bridges, the culverts, et cetera, and the did call in expert people to advise us on • gates. We were also aware that many of what these costs should be and we set those the assets associated with the company were out. We do say that we agree that it may in a fairly dilapidated condition clue to not be necessary to do this forthwith, but lack of maintenance and all of these things there is a responsibility and a liability to do had to he taken into consideration when this. Then we are aware that certain of the valuations were arrived at. I would say that bridges want immediate attention and some in the early stages there were differences in will want attention in the future and we the negotiators' values, but they got together have set out what those costs should be and eventually arrived at values that were We asked the firm of Henry Boot, the suitable to both sides and it was finally engineering company, as to what the costs agreed that a sum of £250,000 should be might be in the future for replacing of the figure which the Committee and the some of the sleepers and the rails along the company would agree to, and we would track which are, in many places, in a very recommend to Tynwald that the railway had condition and we were able to obtain should be purchased for this amount. We this and we have set this out in our report. believe, taking everything into consideration, For the rolling-stock too we engaged Mr. that this is a fair price for the assets. The Devitt, of Flyine Scotsman Services, and consideration of compulsory purchase was he indicated that the engine overhauls are mentioned in a previous Tynwald. We were necessary and certain improvements have to of the opinion, firmly of the opinion, that be made in braking systems to the coaches. • this method would be less advantageous et cetera, and a lot of money will have to than the method that we have pursued, that be spent in this direction too. We have set was the method of the valuers getting to- out all of this, and we estimate that the gether and we did rule out the long-term annual costs could well range between support for the railway in the form of us £175,000 and £122,000 a year starting off subsidising year by year and the Railway with the high figure and going down to the Company would not want that in any case. £122,000. It may well be that those figures In examining the possibility of purchasing are too high, it may well be, it may well the railway, we had to examine the potential be in some cases they are too low, but it cost of running the railway in the future would be wrong of us, in recommending and we did get a lot of figures together. This that you should purchase this railway, if will subsequently have to be decided as to we clid not tell you that these costs are the whether the railway will run and who shall estimated costs by people who know the run it. The proposition today is merely that business and some people might say, well, Government should purchase it. those other it is jolly well worth it too, and other people decisions will come later, but we had to go might say. well, this is money straight down Steam Railway—Report of Steering Committee Received; Purchase by Gov rnment • Approved. TYNWALD COURT, OCTOBER 19, 1977 T73 the drain. We believe that we should tell just mentioning it in passing, the rails, the you what it should cost.