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Roy Niederhoffer of R TTU Podcast Episode #045 Roy Niederhoffer of R. G. Niederhoffer Capital Management Show notes at: http://toptradersunplugged.com/045/ Roy: I can pretty much play any song on the piano from memory in any key and sing it. I think if the hedge fund thing doesn't work out, I'm going to play the piano in a piano bar (laugh). Niels: If you want to stand out from the crowd, it requires a unique approach to life and business. An approach that is aligned with your personality and that goes against the herd or the trend. At times, it will expose you and make you vulnerable to the public, and at times, it will make you look like a hero. Deep down it's about being a contrarian, and that's what we're talking about in today's episode of Top Traders Unplugged. Introduction: Imagine spending an hour with the world's greatest traders. Imagine learning from their experiences, their successes, and their failures - imagine no more. Welcome to Top Traders Unplugged. The place where you can learn from the best hedge fund managers in the world so you can take your manager due diligence or investment career to the next level. Here's your host, veteran hedge fund manager Niels Kaastrup-Larsen. Niels: Welcome to Top Traders Unplugged, where my goal is to give you the clarity, confidence and courage you need to invest like, or invest with one of the top traders in the world. It is the stories that you never get to hear, set out as the most honest and transparent account that I can make of what goes on inside the minds of some of the best investors in the world delivered to you via a one-on-one conversation. Today you're listening to episode 45. If this is the first episode you've head, you might want to go back and listen to all the earlier conversations. Before we go any further, let's find out who's on today's show. Roy: I'm Roy Niederhoffer. I'm the founder and President of R. G. Niederhoffer Capital Management, and I'm here today on Top Traders Unplugged. Niels: Thanks for doing that, Roy, and by the way, if you want to read a full transcript of today's episode, just visit the Top Traders Unplugged website where you can find great details from today's conversation. Now let's get started with part 1 of my conversation. I hope you will enjoy it. Niels: Roy, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate your time. Roy: Thank you Niels. I'm really happy to be part of this. Niels: Great stuff. Roy, as you know people who stand out tend to get noticed, and I think that many people who are involved in the hedge fund or CTA industry are familiar with you and your firm, but perhaps not all the unique size and talents that you have, so I think today © Copyright 2014 TopTradersUnplugged.com (CMC AG). All rights reserved. 1 will be great for the audience. There's some unique stories that we can share, but before we go to your story, I wanted to ask you a slightly different question, a question that I sometimes struggle with answering myself, and it goes something along this way. Imagine that you meet someone that you haven't met before, and you start talking, and suddenly they ask you, "so Roy, tell me what you do?" How do you respond? How do you explain what you do? Roy: Niels the strategy that we employ has a very specific intent which may distinguish it from many other things out there. We are trying to combine both interesting standalone returns with very, very consistent downside protection for people's portfolios in equities, traditional investments overall and also alternatives. What we try to do is maintain a consistent negative correlation to equities. In other words, we do better than average when equities are having trouble, and there's a lot of volatility. Typically when portfolios that most people have are having their toughest times and our strategy's actually tuned not to maximize our own sharp ratio; not to maximize our own risk-adjusted return, but actually to maximize the risk-adjusted return of our clients. Niels: Absolutely. Now before we jump to the bigger question, I want to stay with you as a person for a while. I want to allow you to tell your story. Perhaps not just how you got into the business, but really sort of going back as far as you feel comfortable and share with us what were you like as a kid, and what drove you to the path that you took in life, so to speak? Roy: Sure, I guess my path that led me to where I am today began with a very early interest in computers and programming. When I was thirteen, after a year of begging, I got a computer - an old Radio Shack TRS80 - one of the first microcomputers for a present and I immediately set out to teach myself to program, and I did, and I decided that because I didn't want to feed quarters into an arcade machine, I wanted to make my own version of the old arcade game Space Invaders, which you may remember, which is what I did. I realized that that might be something that other people wanted to have as well, so I started a little company and that company eventually took me to the point, by the end of high school, where we had about 30 employees and I and my three other partners - I added a few partners along the way, we all paid our way through school and had cars and lived a rather... it was small-change compared to now, but for a bunch of 16, and 17 year olds we were surprisingly successful, I guess you could say. Along the way we... my own experience was that I taught myself to program in a very efficient way, because you're dealing with memory limitations that... you literally had 2,000 bites in some cases to write a program, and 16,000 was a luxury - bites. So it forced me to become a very efficient programmer. That skill then served me very well over the summers. I was also doing so work for my brother Victor, who was a very early entrant into the hedge fund space. Victor was there the first day that equity futures began and actually was a participant in the first equity futures trade. He was on the floor and very quickly realized that there were patterns in the intra-day price data that were observable and quantifiable. So I began working there when I was in high school and then all the way through college as an intern, and I was exposed to futures trading in my early teens and all the way through. © Copyright 2014 TopTradersUnplugged.com (CMC AG). All rights reserved. 2 While I was in college, I had a bit of a deviation from that path. I decided that a very interesting problem was the question of how the human brain works, and I spent my undergraduate years studying neuroscience and particularly, since I'm a bit of a musician, as we may get into a bit later, I was very interested in the difference between musician's brains and non-musician's brains to see whether there were any observable patterns that made one's appreciation for music different if you've had a lot of training. Of course, the great finding of neurosciences is that the structure of the human brain has a tremendous influence on human behavior - that we are essentially products of our hardware. That actually is an insight I've taken with me into the trading side. When I graduated from Harvard in 1987, I really had this choice whether I was going to go into the field of neuroscience and continue, and I was all set to go to Cambridge. They had admitted me, but I didn't have enough money to go, so I went to work for my brother, back in New York and it was 1987 and just before the market crashed and it was really easy to be long equities and make money, because that's what everyone had done for five years. I started trading in the summer, and fortunately not equities, but fixed income, some short term strategies that I had already developed even in the first few months, and I was off to the races in 1987. So while I was at my brother's... first of all he had an incredible team there. Already I had met Monroe Trout, who was there for a couple of years before I was, and many of the people that have successful short term trading firms, were also there at the same time - Steve Wisdom, and Paul Buethe, who are now part of Crabel's operation; and then Toby, himself was there for awhile, and many others along the way who have gone on to great success, so it was a tremendous mentoring experience for all of us and I really had the idea, early on, that there was an institutional version of this that we could develop. So we tried to do it in- house, but it turned out that the vision that I had didn't seem to be exactly the way that my brother wanted to go, so in 1992 I left and I formed R.
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