Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

FRIDAY, 21 MARCH 1952

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions. [21 MARCH.] Questions. 1893

PLANS FOR GORDONVALE HOSPITAL. Mr. WATSON (Mulgrave) asked the Secretary for Health and Home Affairs- '' 1. Have the amended plans for the Gordonvale Hospital yet been approved f "2. If so, (a) what is the number of beds provided for in such plans, (b) what is the estimated cost of the hospital, and (a) when is construction likely to commence~ ' ' Hon. W. M. MOORE (Merthyr) replied- '' 1. No. The project is before the Architectural Branch of the Public Works Department, and will be dealt with when an architect is available for that purpose. ''2. See answer to No. 1.''

TIMBER ROYALTIES j EXPENDITURE ON FRIDAY, 21 MARCH, 1952. REFORESTATION. Mr. WORDSWORTH (Cook) asked the Secretary for Public Lands and Irrigation- Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. J. H. Mann, " For the periods 1 July, 1932, to Brisbane) took the chair at 11 a.m. 30 June, 1951, and the financial year 1950-1951, respectively, what were (a) the QUESTIONS. total revenues from royalty on Crown timber, and (b) the total expenditures on EAGLE JUNCTION-WHINSTANES RAIL reforestation?'' DuPLICATioN. Mr. H. B. TAYLOR (Clayfield) asked Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Belyando) replied- the Minister for Transport- '' (a) The total revenues paid to the "1. As duplication of the railway line Treasury, after meeting timber haulage and between Eagle Junction and Whinstanes, marl;eting costs, were:-1 July, 1932, to with the elimination of the existing level 30 June, 1951, £7,046,726; financial year crossing on Sandgate road, Clayfield, has 1950-1951, £551,738. (b) The total expendi­ been approved, will he advise whether any hues on reforesmtion wen~:-1 July, 1932, plan of this scheme has yet been to 30 June, 1951, £5,671,901; financial prepared~ year 1950-1951, £1,111,570. '' '' 2. Does this scheme provide for the lowering of the line to eliminate the two :PROPOSED NEw HosPI1'AL, BmvEN. grades between Eagle Junction and Hendra, or does it provide for an overhead ·bridge Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) asked the at Clayfiold ~ Secretary for Health and Home Aftairs- '' 3. Is any of the cost to be borne by ' 'In view of the very dilapidated condi­ the Brisbane City Council, and, if so, can tion of the Bowen Hospital, will he kindly he state the approximate amount of that give consideration to the inclusion ef a cost~" new hospital in the appropriations for next financial year~ ' ' Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba) replied- Hon. W. M. lliOORE (Merthyr) replied- " 1. A proposal to eliminate the railway '' Sketch plans have been prepared for level crossing on the Sandgate Road, a new hospital at Bowen. Con,ideration Clayfield, is being investigated by the regarding the preparation of working Co-ordinator-General of Public ·works. No drawings and specifications has been plan has been prepared. deferred in view of the difficulty in obtain­ ing supplies of essential materials of '' 2. The elimination of the lm·el crossing varied type used in hospital buildings and would necessitate lowering the tracks and the difficulties obtaining in respect to the construction of a bridge and to some procuring the services of tradesmen skilled extent, the reduction of the g~ade~ between in the building industry. A further obstacle Eagle Junction and Hendra. There would in the matter of obtaining loan moneys be no necessity to alter the grades apart from banks and other financial organisa­ from the elimination of the crossinig. tions resultant from the financial policy of '' 3. The matter is the subject of dis­ the Commonwealth Government has neces­ cussion between the Co-ordinator-General sitated the restriction of operations to of Public Works and the Brisbane City those projects which are under construc- Council.'' tion.'' · 1894 Egg Marlceting Boa,rd. [ASSEMBLY.] Egg Marketing Board.

HOUSE REN'l'ALS, TENANTS WITH SMALL No attempt was made by the Government to INCOMES. refute that evidence which was put forward on each application by the industry to have Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) asked the the price of the product brought up to the Attorney-General- cost of production. " If, as the Premier has stated, the Minister is considering the introduction of I quote the wholesale prices of eggs an amendment to the Landlord and Tenant throughout Australia in the early part of this Act this session, which will have the effect year. They were as follows: of increasing house rentals, will he also Queensland 3s. lld. a dozen consider making provisions in the amend­ New South Wales 5s. ld. a dozen ing Act similar to those in the Common­ Victoria 4s. 5d. a dozen wealth and State Housing Agreement which South Australia 4s. 5d. a dozen protects tenants with small incomes~'' Western Austmlia 4s. 4d. a dozen Hon. W. POWER (Baroona) replied- Tasmania . . 4s. 7 d. a dozen '' The hon. member should be well aware The effect of such price-fixing on an industry that it is not the practice to- indicate the such as the poultry industry in Queensland nature of prospective legislation by way of can be realised. It almost wiped out the answer to the hon. member's question. This industry. Laying hens were sent. in tens of Government needs no prompting from the thousands to the poultry abattoll's. If we hon. member to ensure that it will safc:­ look at the figures it will be seen that 325,000 guard tenants' interests.'' hens went through the poultry abattoirs in December, 1951, against a normal killing at EGG MARKETING BOARD. that time of the year of between 100,000 and PROPOSED DISALLOWANCE OF ORDER IN 150,000. Producers were unable to carry on COUNCIL. and they were compelled to send laying hens to the abattoirs in order to meet their feed Mr. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader bills. of the Opposition) (11.9 a.m.): I move- As a result, the industry was at a very '' That the order in council relating to low ebb at the time this order in council was the Egg Marketing Board under the issued. Just prior to the issuing of this orcier Primary Producers' Organisation and in Council, the Government, having got them­ Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1951, laid upon selves into an unholy mess in regard to the the table of the House on 11 March, 1952, fixation of egg prices, decided tlwt they be disallowed.'' would give back to the Egg Marketing Board I take this action, Mr_ Speaker, because the right to fix the price of eggs, a right after perusing the order in council I find it always enjoyed prior to Commonwealth that it has the effect of being a savage attacli' price control. And it should be the right of on a valuable industry that depends for its that board, because that is the organiBation very existence on the orderly marketing of that is in close touch with all the fluctuations, its products. I am surprised that the and when the price is determinerl hy the Minister, who has at all times stated that board it is a price that is related to the cost he stands for orderly marketing in this State, of production. should have issued such order in council. Immediately after the Government gave When I consider the effect that it is going back to the egg board that right, they fol­ to have on the industry, I invite the Minister lowed it with this order in council to which to preside over the last sad rites of the we are objecting today. At the same time poultry industry. as the Government gave the Egg Marketing The reaction of growers to this order in Board the right to fix the price of eggs, they council was immediate and violent. Coming also said, "We will fix the whole industry." as it did immediately after the action of the And they will "fix" the whole industry, too, Government in holding prices below the cost with this order in council. of production, they regard it as a punitive This industry, which depends for its exist­ measure designed to destroy their industry ence on the orderly marketing organisation and the marketing organisation, which has that it has built up over the years, provides been of great value to the industry over the facilities for the handling of eggs, for the years. packing of them, storing against shortages, I emphasise the point that the Government the export of the surplus overseas and the were responsible for keeping the price of eggs control of the quality. But the Government in this State well below the cost of production. in one fell swoop are going to destroy this The price of eggs in Queensland was lower organisation that has been built up over the than the price elsewhere in Australia, not­ years and will at the same time destroy the withstanding the fact that the poultry foods industry itself. The Queensland Egg Market­ used by producers are more costly in this ing Board has the best record of any market­ State than in any other part of Australia. ing board in Australia in respect of' the Production costs in Queensland are the quality of eggs sent overseas, and I mention highest in Australia, and despite that fact the fact as an indication of the efficiency the Government kept the price of eggs below and effects of the board's work. If we are the cost of production, even after repeated going to divert a large number of eggs away representations on behalf of the industry, from the operations of the board we are representations that were supported by irre­ going to wreck it, because we are going to futable evidence as to the cost of production. destroy these facilities to deal with the Egg Marketing Boa1·d. [21 MARcH. Egg Marketing Boa1·d. 1895

The Leader of the Opposition argues that feed at one stage. At whose door does the we should hand· to the Egg Board the right blame for that lie f It lies at the door of to fix the price of eggs. If we carry that the Federal Government' because when the argument to its logical conclusion, we should present Secretary for Labour and Industry give the right to every commodity board to attended a conference in the South it was fix the prices of the commodities it handles. agreed that an increase in the price of wheat The consumer is entitled to some rights in was necessary and that the 4s. freight from these matters, and when it was decided to South Australia to Queensland would be decontrol the price of eggs Mr. Corbett borne by the Commonwealth Government. urged that the producers should not attempt We now find that Mr. McEwan and his to increase production. Government have repudia te

relaxed restrictions on the marketing of eggs If the Government think for one moment that had been in operation to the extent that that the bringing in of this order in council any person could keep up to 250 fowls. Of will have the effect of increasing egg pro­ course, that number ordinarily would give duction, or of decreasing the price of eggs more eggs than any family or perhaps half to the public, they are very much mistaken. a dozen families would need, and it would The average back-yard poultry man today give them the opportunity of placing the is not producing eggs for the benefit of the excess produce in the form of eggs on the public, but for the benefit of himself. He local market through the local storekeeper. is doing what he is in order that he By that means citizens who live in flats or can rake off as many shekels as he can as a on allotments where there are no facilities sideline. Every back-yard poultry man for the keeping of fowls have an opportunity whom I know either sells his eggs to the of getting eggs. shops at Egg Board prices, or to the public The only criticism I have to offer is· that at the retail price. 'l'herefore, this order in in one instance at least the Brisbane City council will not benefit the public one iota. Council has not seen fit to fall into line with As far as production is concerned, the the Government and has insisted, despite the onlv effect this order in council will have ·order in council, on restricting the maximum will be to use up more of the available feed, number of fowls that any person resident in which is already scarce. I repeat, too, that the Greater Brisbane area can keep to 50. I it will have an undesirable effect on the think that any local authority that adopts health of the community and will not in any that attitude is doing the wrong thing for shape or form cheapen the cost of eggs to the consumer. the consumer. (Time expired.) lUr. CHALK (Lockyer) (11.39 a.m.): I Mr. NICHOLSON (Murrumba) (11.35 desire to support the motion for the disal­ a.m.): At the outset, I want to state quite lowance of this order in council, because I dearly and distinctly my reaction to the think that this is just another attempt by introduction of this order in council extend­ the Government to break down what previous ing the number of fowls that can be kept, speakers have referred to as orderly market­ allegedly in a back yard, to 250. The only ing. Over the past years we have seen conclusion that can be arrived at is that it attempts by this Government to break down is a simple case of the Government, or the orderly marketing, and to penalise the Prices Minister, or the ex-Prices Minister, primary producer in many directions. This or what have you, venting spleen against an appears to be just another regulation that industry that through its own endeavours­ could be classed as a further nail in the and I state that emphatically-forced the coffins of the egg-producers of this State. Government into fixing a price for eggs that From time to time all of us make some is of benefit to the producer and not a extravagant statements in this House, but I hardship to the consumer. think there was nothing more extravagant I should like to go further and say that than the statement this morning of the ex­ this law state,, just as clearly as if the words Prices Minister, the hon. member for were written in black and white, ''If we Baroona, when he said that the purpose of cannot beat them by one means, we will at this order in council was to encourage the least see that they do not win in the long small backyard poultry man to produce eggs. run. '' By issuing this order in council the Has anyone ever heard of 250 fowls being Government will not only interfere seriously kept in a small back yard~ with the functions of the Egg Board and An earlier speaker made reference to the create disturbance throughout the commun­ effect this order in council may have on the ity, as well as among the legitimate egg­ Jwalth of the community. ·That too is producers, but will also inflict on the com­ important. munity a very undesirable menace to its health. The order in council permits people to keep 250 fowls. Those fowls will produce a number The hon. member for Nundah, the future of eggs, but what is going to be the quality eandidate for mayoralty honours in this city, of those eggs and what price are they going at least should have kept a still tongue in the to bring~ During its period of operations matter of introducing 250 fowls into the the Egg Board has guaranteed the quality of back yards of Brisbane. If he has ever smelt eggs and the size of eggs. It is on those a fowl yard containing 50 fowls in wet two factors that prices have been fixed. As weather, he is not in his right senses if he a result of this order in council, however, the favours the granting of permission to run consumers will be paying one price for eggs 250 fowls in a closely-settled area. In my irrespective of quality or size. opinion, such an action runs contrary to safe­ guarding the health of the community, and I know that even now a canvass is being the Secretary for Health and Home Affairs made throughout some of the egg-producing should put a spoke in the wheel and endeavour areas in Brisbane by a particular firm. vVhen to stop it from being done, at least in the city I say ''egg-producing areas,'' I mean the small areas where fewer than 250 fowls arc and in other closely-settled areas. kept. Those eggs will be brought into the city It has been said that the consumer must and will be retailed through certain avenues, be considered in this matter. Undoubtedly, and that will completely defeat the purposes he has been considered. He has been con­ for which the Egg Board has been estab­ sidered, too, in the price that has been :fixed. lished and has operated in the State. 1898 Egg Marketing Board. [ASSEMBLY.] Egg JYlarketing Board.

Members of the Labour Party time and I agree with the hon. member for Mur­ time and again refer to some member of a rumba that the order in council will not bring union as a sca'b because he gets something for any more eggs into existence but it will lead which the union has worked and is not helping to a, terrific wastage of feed with no benefit the union. Is that not typical of what will to the public at all. Every person who has happen nowf Some people will benefit from up to 250 fowls and avoids the obligation to the efforts of the Egg Board, but they will send his eggs to the Egg Board will sell be doing nothing to help in the orderly them at the ruling retail price in the marketing of eggs, and will certainly be suburban stores. There will be no increase doing nothing to help in maintaining the in egg production and no attempt is being quality and size of eggs. made by the Government to preserve the industry. ~Ir. KERR (Sherwood) (11.43 a.m.): I join w1th the Lcauer of the O]Jpos,twu and (Time expired) . my colleagues in moving for the disallowance of this order in council. Mr. DEWAR (Chermside) (11.48 a.m.) : The Government are attempting by an order The Attorney-General made a great song in council to kick the poultry industry and dance about the fact that the Govern­ because it had the sublime audacity to seek ment guaranteed the Egg Board. The Govern­ control of its own industry. The hon. mem­ ment may have guaranteed' the Egg Board, ber for Nundah endeavoured to bolster up the but I emphasise to the Minister and to the case for the Government but let me tell ~:[m Minister for Agriculture and Stock, that the and other Socialists on the other side that Egg Board now could probably guarantee the no matter how much the Government n,,-y Government. The Minister contends that the kick private emerprise it has enough of the Government more or less mothered the egg free and independent spirit always to rise industry because they guaranteed the Egg again. They can kick the primary producer Board's activities. I suggest that the and others who believe in private enterprise Government should withdraw and allow the but the primary producer and people in Egg Board to stand on its own feet, which private enterprise believe in the democratic it is well able to do. way of life and so will rise above the attacks Let us examine its balance sheet. It has of the Government. The Government have reserves of £176,000, growers' funds amount­ attacked the poultry industry because it ing to £58,000, and unappropriated funds sought to control its own affairs. One has amounting to £15.000. Houghly speaking, it only to look at the history of the Peak Downs has reserves of nearly a quarter of a million Socialist enterprise to realise that they have pounds. This money has been invested in all very good reason for wanting to take the sorts of Bccnr!ties-fi.,ed d<'posrts and other control if their industry out of the hands of securities. 'When one considers that, one the Socialists. In issuing the order in council realises how ridbtlous is the suggestion that the Government are merely trying to get the Gm·ernnwnt ~HA r1oing any gooil whatAver, square with the industry because it had the financially, for the Egg Board. The Egg audacity to seek controi of its own affairs. Board can do without the Government. It The average man has not sufficient room \Yants to do without the Government in these in his back yard to house 250 fowls nor has matters. he the necessary time to devote to them. I A little before Christmas the Deputy have had a yarn with some people who run Leader of my party and I approached the fowls in my own district and in particular hon. member fer vVynnnm and suggested that I mention the case of a retired pensioner \1-e should see the Attorney-General and on a vvho has 50 fowls and all the time in the non-party basis point out that the poultry world to devote to them. He told me that he people were r:ot getting sufficient to was ''flat out'' looking after the 50 fowls recoup production cos's. 'l'he hon. member and attending to his little garden. for Wynnum could not accompany us but the Attornev-Gcneral told the hon. member for I believe it is ridiculous to lift the limit Mt. Coot-tha and me after we had gone to to 250, apart from the dislocation it will see him that he would give his verdict in cause to the Board. We all know that there two days. Did he do iH Not on your life. has been a feed shortage for the last three or He completely ignored both of us. Unfor­ four months, and that will be accentuated if tunately, the hon. member for Wynnum could everyone takes advantage of that increased not go on the deputation and the hon. mem­ maximum, but I doubt very much whether ber f

The Building Control Regulations that exist is wasted by interruptions from the Opposi­ in this Socialist State make it almost impos· tion be granted to me. I do not .want my sible for the average man to get materials to time wasted by silly interjections from the build a fowl-house for his fowls. Opposition. It is obvious this is nothing more nor less There is no need for anybody to take any than a ' 'get-square'' Socialist move against of his eggs from the Egg Board as a result a group who have the guts to stick up for of this order in council. He has the option their rights and demand what they are of doing so if he wishes, but there is nothing entitled to under a democratic system. to compel him. Does the decent unionist try to scab on his union by seeking to enjoy the benefits won for him by that union without Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands­ Secretary for Agriculture and Stock) (11.52 paying his union clues'! Of course he does a.m.) : I rise to oppose the resolution. In not. The farmer has a right to vote for the keeping with their common practice members election of members of the board and if he of the Opposition have used extravagant believes in his institution he will not take his language this morning, in fact a little more product from it. extravagant than usual. It was suggested We have heard a great deal from the that the Government were making a Leader of the Opposition about the higher ~traightout attack on the poultry industry prices for eggs in the other States. I remind m order to destroy organised marketing. him that the cost of living and the cost of This Government were the creators of wages are higher in those other States, conse­ organised marketing. Down through the quently, in order to make the same profit years we had to fight the Opposition from his eggs the producer must get higher tooth and nail in order to retain it. prices. vV e have been generous and given the They were saying when those Acts and producer the right to fix his own price iu :tmendments were put through, ''This Queensland, and there is nothing wrong with 1s a further attempt to socialise all that at the present time. the farmers.'' That is what they said for Again, in New South \Vales any producer years-that this was a means of courting the who has fewer than 100 fowls is exempt if farmer and socialising him. Now, when we he wishes to be exempted, but if he has not are seeking to give a reasonable amount of more than 150 fowls he has no right to vote. liberty to the small man within the ambit of In Victoria, if a man has not more than 250· the Act, they complain bitterly. The board fowls he has no right to vote. In South or the council can exempt any area of small Australia, a good Tory-governecl State, he growers if it is desirable to do so. We are has no right to vote at all. There the Govern­ acting within the ambit of the Act-an Act ment nominate all members of their board, that was voted for by the poultry industry all(l I must say it is not a bad Egg Board itself. either. In vVestern Australia, if a man has not more than 151 fowls he has no right to If we wanted to destroy the poultry indus­ vote, but they take his levy, and so on. \Vhy, try would the Government give a service that hon. members opposite would be loud in their is an annual charge against Consolidated cries of indignation if we attempted to levy Revenue of £10,000 a year or more~ We on the Queensland producer and gave him no make ,no charge and we are happy to give right to vote. the poultry farmers that help. '.V e passed an Act last year to allow us to give them Let us see how some of the other commodity more and we will continue to give them more. Boards operate. Take the Committee of I am entirely ~ymJ?ath.etic with the industry, Directon of Fruit :Marketing. Nobody knows and the men m ~ne mdustry and the Egg more about the ramifications of that instru­ B?ard knows that Is. so. If we were trying to mentality than the Leader of the Opposition. sbfie the poultry mdustry why would the It does not compel a producer to send his fruit Govern:·nent undertake, if necessary, to pay to it. The fruit-producers have an ''open the freight ?n all ~he wheat that the industry slather'' as to where they send their fruit. needs that IS commg from South Australia~ The Committee does direct how it shall be The. guarantee was withdrawn by the Aus­ handled but no producer is compelled to sell tralian Wheat Board-I do not know whether his fruit through it. Yet I can say wi~hO'lt the Federal Minister concurs with that with­ fear of contradiction that the Committee of drawal-and :ve have said that we will guar­ Direction is one of the most successful antee the freight. Is that evidence that we commodity boards in Queensland. It handles a tremendous amount of money, and its are trying to destroy the industry~ manager has told me time and again that the It is suggested that this order in council committee has no desire to get away from the will mean the destruction of the Egg Board. freedom of the grower to sell his products There is nothing in it to compel any man to to whom he likes. ~ak_e any eggs away from the Egg Board. I JUr. Nicklin: That is a rather broad mvite any hon. member opposite to show me statement. where it provides that a man must sell his eggs outside the Egg Board if he has fewer Mr. COLLINS: Not at all. than 250 fowls. He can still supply to the JUr. Nicklin: Canning fruit cannot be Egg Board if he wishes, and if he is loyal sold except under clirectioJ,L. to his institution he will do so. (Opposition interjections.) I did not interrupt when hon. Mr. COLLINS: It does not necessarily membe;s opposite were talking and I ask that direct all the product to itself. There has extra time to the extent of that to which mine been a considerable reduction in poultry 1900 Egg Marketing Board. [ASSEMBLY.] Egg Marketing Board. numbers but that reduction came about long to represent him but that hon. member had before this order in council was issued and a serious operation to perform on a patient it has not been the order in council that and could not attend. I filled the breach. caused it. The cause was the fear of a I wish to defend the Minister particularly. shortage of feed on the one hand and a fear There was nothing for the Minister to com­ ·of the market on the other. municate to the hon. members for Mount Mr. Nicklin: The price of eggs. Coot-tha and Sherwood, because they did not say one word calling for a reply. Members Mr. COLLINS: The price of eggs is of the deputation made an attack on public :higher here than can be got overseas. In the officers and I defended them and I contend export season the price of eggs in the United that I had the right to do so. I stated at Kingdom was considerably below the Aus­ the deputation that the producers should be tralian price. When representatives of the asking the Commissioner of Prices to give industry came to me at that time and asked consideration to an increase in the price of whether they had a case to go before the small and cracked eggs, what might be price-fixing authorities I said that it was termed second-grade eggs. On that occasion their business and I would not answer for I had with me these Egg Board accounts the virtues or faults of the Commissioner of from one of the farmers at The Gap. They Prices. I said that he was quite capable show that on one occasion he submitted 207 of doing that himself. I told them that they dozen eggs to the Egg Board, of which 126 were getting less for their eggs by exporting dozen were classed as second grade. On the them than they could get here, and if the back is written, ''Small, some cracked and Leader of the Opposition had the job of the some blood spots.'' On another occasion he Commissioner of Prices under those condi­ sent in 134 lljl2th dozen, of which 67 5/12th tions and the producers were exporting eggs dozen were classed as second-grade. Written at a lesser price-- on the back of the account is ''Mostly small cracks.'' On another occasion he supplied )lr. Nicklin: Were they keeping the 146 dozen, of which 82 8/12th dozen were Queensland market short~ classed as second grade. On another occasion he sent in 87 dozen, of which 40 ll/12th Mr. COLLINS: No. The export market dozen were classed as second-grade. was not as good as the home market. Hon. members opposite have said that I However, those are some of the advantages was attacking the Egg Board, but I was not enjoyed by the people of Queensland. The attacking the Egg Board at all. I think the poultry industry has been built up into a Egg Board is the most efficient organisation rather prosperous one-- of primary producers in this State. I have Mr. Nicklin: Prosperous? said over llnd over again that the poultry farmers of this State would not be in exis­ li:r. COLLINS: I say it is prosperous, tence today had it not been for the Egg otherwise there would not be the continually Board's finding overseas markets for eggs. increasing number of eggs-- Any remark that I make is not in condemna­ tion of the Egg Board, but I believe that an ~Ir. Nicklln: They are declining. injustice has been done to the producers because of these anomalies. Mr. COLLIN,S: Declining, but the pro­ duction is three times as great as it was ten ~Ir. Kerr: Why did you not say that at years ago-- the deputation~ 1\Ir. TURNER: The hon. member must Mr. Nicklin: They are going out of have been unconscious at that deputation, the industry in dozens every day and you because this is the very argument that I used know it. on that occasion. Further, I told him and his Mr. COLLINS: Mr. Deputy Speaker, is colleagues that they too should be using the this a duet~ I cannot even hear myself same argument. speaking. I say that the order in council llr. Kerr: You opposed it. does not compel them to take their eggs away. The Government have been generous Mr. TURNER: I said that if the price with the Egg Board and so far as I know of first-quality eggs was increased any fur­ the board does not owe us anything. ther, buyer-resistance would operate. I said I oppose the motion for reasons I have that the producers could be more than com­ outlined. pensated by an increase of at least ls. a dozen in the price of cracked and under-sized :Mr. TURNER (Kelvin Grove) (12.4 p.m.:) eggs. I had no intention of entering this debate Mr. Nicklin: Fancy selling cracked eggs but after listening to the hon. member for to the public! ~herwood I find it necessary to speak in defence of three of my colleagues. It is Mr. TURNER: I know too much about true that I represented the hon. member for the Egg Board and its operations for the Wynnum on a deputation to the Minister in Leader of the Opposition to tell me anything control of price-fixing and the reason why I about it. Knowing that the Leader of the was there was that the hon. member for Opposition is unaware of what the Egg Board Wynnum had another appointment. He had does with these eggs, I will tell him. It pulps asked the hon. member for Mount Gravatt, them and sells them to the cake manufac­ who has poultry farmers in his electorate, turers, nnd exports them to other States. If Egg Mark:eting Board. [21 MARCH.] State Children Acts, &c., Bill. 1901 our ice-cream manufacturers can pack ice­ SUGAR EXPERIMENT STATIONS ACTS cream in one gallon or five-gallon cans and AMENDMENT BILL. also in 1 oz. and 2 oz. buckets, and if the Butter Board can sell butter in 56-lb. packs INITIATION. and -k-lb. wraps, why cannot the Egg Board Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands­ do the same thing with these eggs~ Secretary for Agriculture and Stock): Mr. Nicklin: Do you think the public I move- would buy them~ " That the House will, at its present Mr. TURNER: Of course. Would not sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of the boarding houses buy them~ Would not the Whole to consider of the desirableness housewives buy them~ These things can of introducing a Bill to amend the Sugar be done. Science has come to the aid of Experiment Stations Acts, 1900 to 1951, every section of industry. in certain particulars.'' Motion agreed to. The hon. member for Lockyer made a state­ ment about scabbing on the Egg Board. He should talk about scabbing! He has scabbed STATE CHILDREN ACTS AND more on the Egg Board than any other per­ ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT BILL. son I know. Ever since he has been in this SECOND READING. Chamber he has been bringing eggs to his friends from the farmers in his district. Hon. W. M. MOORE (Merthyr-Secre­ Mr. CHALK: I rise to a point of order. tary for Health and Home Affairs) (12.16 I do not know why the hon. member for p.m.) : I move- Kelvin Grove mentioned this, but I defy him '' That the Bill be now read a second to name any member of this House to whom time.'' I have brought eggs. I deny that I have ever carried eggs between Toowoomba and I think we are all agreed on the introduction Brisbane. of this measure for the administration pur­ poses of the State Children Department whose Mr. TURNER: I am merely repeating object is to lay the foundation of a happy what the hon. member himself told me. family life and the formation of the char­ acter of the children who come within its care. Mr. SPEAKER: The time for the debate I think we are all agreed that those noble under the Standing Orders having expired, requirements rest to a great extent with the I now propose to put the motion. early training and environment of the child Question-that the motion (Mr. Nicklin) and they can be achieved if the children are be agreed to-put; and the House divided- kept with their natural parents or close rela­ tives. Some of the children are not able to AYES, 25. enjoy that natural care and the department Mr. All pass 1\!r. Morris has other ways and means of making up to Chalk Munro the children the loss they incur thereby. Coburn Nicholson DecKer Nicklin 'l'he Bill proposes to amend the State " Dewar rii-. Noble Children Acts, 1911 to 1943 and the Adop­ Ewan Mr. Plunkett Heading Sparkes tion of Children Acts, 1935 to 1941 and it is " Hi!cy Teylor. H. B. a tangible expression of the Government 'a Jones, V. E. Watson desire wherever possible to save children from Ke!'t' Low their misfortune and, where that cannot be Luckins Tellers: done, to repair as far as possible the great " Macdonald Pizzey loss sustained by children who are deprived _Thiladsen Wordsworth of the intimate care and guidance of their NOES, 36. parents. The State Children Department Mr. Brosnan Mr. Jesson functions under the State Children Act and Brown Jones, A. is the ward and guardian of the children Burrows Keyatta under its control and although it continues Byrne Lloyd Cl ark Mars den to do outstanding work on their behalf the Col! ins ]\{<1:1""~ Government are determined to improve and Davis Moo res extend those services wherever possible, in Devries Power ri~. Dittmer Rasey the light of experience and changed circum­ Mr. Donald Riordan stances, and this is what is being done by the Dufficy Smith main amendments in the Bill. Duggan Tay!or, J. R nunstnn Turner The Bill contains ameuc1ments to the State Farrell Walsh Fo!ey Whyte Children Act and the Adoption of Children Gair Act. There are 14 amendments of the State Gunn Tellers: Children Act. The first and second amend­ Ffiltnn Roberts, F. E. In gram Wood ments enlarge the definition of "department" by including a definition of ''director'' and PAIRS. make provision for the appointment of a AYES. NoEs. deputy director. When the original Act was Mr. Evans Mr. Gardner passed a director was appointed but no pro­ Gaven Larcombe Graham vision was made for a deputy director. As Mcintyre a result the powers directly conferred on the Resolved in the negative. director by the Act cannot be exercised in !902 State Children Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Another Act Amendt. Bill.

his absence. Under this amendment the When present prices of food and clothing position is rectified by the appointment of a are taken into consideration this amount is deputy director who will discharge the func­ clearly seen to be insufficient to enable a tions of the director in his absence. This widow to keep ;herself and her four children. will lead to facility in the administration b)· If there were not some other aids to the the department as a whole. widow and children hon. members can The third and eleventh amendments are imagine what the position would be. I designed to enable increases to be made by believe that because the community contri­ regulation in the amount paid to foster­ butes the social services tax the burden should parents or institutions for State children in be carried by the Commonwealth Govern­ their care. Payments are made by the ment, the taxing authority. However, that department towards the upkeep of State is not what is done, and my Government, children, to parents or other near relatives appreciative of the need to see that mothers who keep such children in their own home, such as these are catered for, have found it foster-parents who have State children in expedient to increase the income that ~omes their care in their home, and institutions into the home. We all know the children caring for State children. Under Section 35 and the mother would be seriously handi­ of the Act, which refers to payments to capped if she tried to maintain herself and mothers and other relatives, where the child­ her children on this amount, and she would ren live with them, the amount to be paid naturally have to depend upon. charitable institutions and people to do the JOb that we weekly by ;the depar~ment towards their really believe is a matter for the Government upkeep is not specified, but is prescribed in that collects the taxes. the regulations, and can be readily altered from time to time to meet changing Up to February, 1951, the weekly payment circumstances. 1ms 12s. a week for each child and it was increased from that date to 14s. a week, and The Commonwealth Government, after the on 1 August, 1951, it was further in~reased referendum in which the people of Australia to 15s. a week, and on 3 February this year expressed their approval of the central the amount was increased to £1 a week. In Government's taking over social services, addition an extra 5s. is paid for the first granted the widow's pension and child child b~cause the child endowment payment endowment. Payments are made out of the for the first child is 5s. a week, compared Social Services Fund, to which everyone con­ with 10s. a week for every other child, and tributes by means of the social services tax. this brings the total payment for the ~rst In theory, the payment of widow's pensions, child to equality with that of the o_ther chi~d­ plus child endowment, should be sufficient to ren. The amount lJaid under So~Ial. ServiCe enable the widow to maintain herself and benefits will be £5 a week, and It Is to be her children without the necessity of her increased by £4 5s. by t~is Gov~rnment; going to work, because if such schemes are to making the total for a widow With f?m be effective and worth while their aim must children £9 5s. a week. On that we thmk be to enable the widow to concentrate all her she has a reasonable chance of spending her energy on the full-time \York of caring for time at home and giving her children the her children so that she may be able to give personal care and attention ~h~y should h::ve them the benefit of her constant attention and at the same time providmg them mth and guidance. I think hon. members 1vill the things that are necessary ip. life. agree that the best that can be clone for the children and the country-because the child­ The State goes further in tha~ all school ren will grow up and become importan~ social requisites for children are supphed free at units-is to enable the mother to giVe her the cost of the State Children Department. constant attention and care to the children Usually these payments cease at the age. of and help them to become good citizens. 14 years, which is the ayerage age at which the child would be entermg employment, but If we examine the amounts of child under certain circumstances, if the child stays endowment and pension that are given to a at school, the payments are extended. widow and her children I think we must agree that they are insufficient to enable the Itlr. Morris: To what age are they widow to give the necessary sustenance and extended~ maintenance to the children and at the same time devote her attention to them, to the lllr. MOO RE: There is no particular degree to which they are entitled. age. Most of these things are left to t_he I propose to give an example of the amount good judgment o~ the Di~ector. If a child paid in social services to a widow with four gains a schola;ship, for mst:;nce, the pay­ young children. A widow with four young ments are contmued. If a child should con­ children receives from the Commonwealth tinue to the University, the payments are Social Services Fund the following amounts- continued until the child graduates. Most of these things are left to the judgment of £ s. d. the Director and I think all hon. members Widow's pension 3 5 0 p.w. will agree that in these matters the Govern­ Child endowment ment are always very generous. ( 3 children) 1 10 0 p.w. Whilst Section 35 enables the amount paid Child endowment weekly to mothers or near relatives who have (first child) 0 5 0 p.w. their children living at home with them to be determined from time to time, the sections Total £5 0 0 p.w. authorising payment to foster-parents who State Children Acts and [21 MARCH.} Another Act Amendt. Bill. 1903 have State children in their care and living is in the tender years. There are occasions with them, and to institutions that care for when for various reasons it is not possible State children, specify a maximum of 12s. a or advisable to bring about a legal adoption week. These sections-they are 16 and 64- at that stage. The child might be placed are to be amended to bring them into line out with foster-parents and grow up to a with Section 35. At present the amount to certain age, and be accepted as a member of be paid to foster-parents or to institutions is the family, and then a set of circumstances limited under these sections to 12s. a week might arise when a legal adoption could for ?ach child. The amendment seeks to take place. The age of five in the State delete all reference to the 12s. and to insert Children Acts is to be amended to allow in lieu the words, ''As from time to time of that adoption. Jl~escribed." In short, the amending Bill If I might digress from the subject a Will allow the department to increase the little to show the desire of young couples to grants from time to time in the future adupt children, how keen they are and what according to the exigencies of the moment. sacrifices they are prepared to make to keep children, I should like to give the House ll~r. Nicklin: . It .will not be necessary to mtroduce legis la twn from time to time? particulars of a case that came to my notice some time ago. It shows how fortunate some llir. ~OO~E: ~o. The new wording of unfortunate children are that there are the legislatiOn will allow it to be done. people like these in our midst. This was a At present the amount paid to foster­ case where we could not do anything. A parents is £1 a week for each child. It couple in Sydney became possessed of two would be unreasonable to expect foster­ ehildreu. Their mother, unfortunately, was parents to meet; the increased cost of provid­ in very bad circumstances and allowed this mg for the child out of their own pockets young married couple to take the children. even if they were in a position to do so~ From the circumstances as told to me, this ~Vithout the additional help, of course, many young couple took over these children and J:oster-parents would not be able to meet their later they moved to Queensland, where they rommitments. This, I might say has been took a hotel. They wanted to hold the done and the amendment asks th~ House to children although they could not legally endorse the action taken by the Government adopt them. The Department in New South of increasing the weekly· amount payable Wales would not allow the children to stay in heyond the limit set down in the Act and to Queensland for a longer 11eriod than a short enable furt_hcr in_crcases to be made 'speedily holiday. This information was brought to my by regulatiOn Without the delay caused bv knowledge by one of our western members, having to await an amendment' of the Acf. on behalf of the young couple. Rather than ~\s the Leader of the Opposition has said lose the two children, this young couple were t~at is the main feature ~f the clause dealing prepared to sell out their interests in Queens­ 1\Ith the matter. The fixmg of the maximum land and go back to New South Wales and weekly amount that can be paid under the take the children with them. I say that it ~\et cou_Id lead to grave hardship and cause is very good to know that we have in our Y~r:y serw_us consequences at a time of sharply midst people like that, people who have such nsmg pncC's and the conseqnent increase in a love for children that they are prepared to "the cost of living. go to the extent of sacrificing their own interests in order to keep children. We made ", The ~ou_rth amendment deletes the words an offer to act as the agent for the State · Co~misswner of Police'' from Section 19 Children Department in New South Wales to and mserts the word ''Director. ' ' see that the children were properly looked after but unfortunately, we could not do any­ The portion of the Act affected reads- thing about the matter, and the young '' And any child removed by the Com­ couple had to give up their business and go missioner of Police to the care of the back to New South Wales to live. As I said, Department pursuant to the Infant Life it is gratifying to know that there are Protection Act of 1905 shall be admitted people like that in our midst. as a State child.'' Only too few. When the original State Children Act was Mr. Nicholson: passed the Infant Life Protection Act was Mr. MOO RE: The position is that there ach.ninistered by the Commissioner of Police. are more couples or families wanting to This latter Act has been amended and the adopt children today than we have children administration thereof placed u'nder the to adopt. That is a very healthy sign and, Director of State Children. The phrase ''Commissioner of Police'' has been deleted as I say, it is very gratifying to know that there are people in our midst who are willing an cl the word "Director" inserted. That is the reason for the amendment. to make sacrifices in order to give these children a chance. 'l'he fifth amendment deletes from the Those are the reasons behind the increase c'cct the pTOvision that no State child over in the age of adoption. Various matters five years can be adopted. The amendment arise from time to time, with the result that will b;ing the Act into conformity with the )cdoptwn of Children Act, which provides the Act is being amended to place the depart­ :t'or the adoption of children up to 21 years. ment in a position to meet changing needs. Hon. members will appreciate the fact that The matter of a probationary period was there are occasions when we depart, shall raised by a member of the Opposition. The I say, from the ideal time to adopt a Director, however, has informed me that that child--at a very early age. The ideal time is being done. There have been cases where 1904 State Children Acts and [ASSEMBLY.] Anothe1· Act Amendt. Bill. a child is not adopted immediately; it is Hon. members will agree that those are adopted for a probationary period, usually all important amendments. The Director, as six months. If everything is quite satis­ legal guardian of the State ward who is factory at the end of the probationary apprenticed, signs the indentures and retains period, the legal adoption then takes place. guardianship during the apprenticeship. Another hon. member referred to New Award wages are paid and the Director Australians, but the Director has informed arranges board with foster parents. He me that fortunately only one case involving allots the amount. of money to be paid for New Australians has so far come under the board, clothing, pocket money and fares, and notice of the department. The department the balance, if any, is credited to the child's had to interfere in the domestic affairs of account. However, very often in the early a New Australian family, and place a child years of apprenticeship the wages are insuf­ in the care of the State. ficient to cover the full cost of maintenance and to supply pocket money. In these cases Another matter that has been referred to the department supplements the wages and i~ the position as it affects what we call makes payment to the foster parents. Housing Commission flats. I should like to inform the House that the living conditions Some examples taken at random, amongst in those places are not quite as bad as those State wards who have been apprenticed sometimes they are said to be. However, to trades, will show clearly the great benefit a very close surveillance is kept of them not that is accruing to these children through only by this department, but by the Police the care, guidance and supervision of the Department and other departments. There department. The keynote of the work of this is no need for me to tell hon. members of department is the care and welfare of the the invaluable work that is performed in child and an endeavour to see that the child this direction by Mrs. Wills, of my depart­ gets the chances that he would have if he was ment. I think most members of Parliament living with his parents. know the excellent work that she is doing. She is a g_uide, philosopher and friend, not The first example is that of an apprentice only to the children but to grown-ups. The baker. 'l'his lad is 17 years of age and value of her work to the community could receives award ·wages of £6 15s. 8d. a week. not possibly be gauged. Mrs. Wills is con­ He is boarded in a private home and pays tinually in and out of these housing camps, £2 5s. a week. He is allowed by the Director making investigations and giving sound pocket money of £1 3s. a week. He would advice to parents and helping them to over­ in all probability be allowed more if he was come their problems. The women police, too, able to show that he needed it. The balance have given great service in this direction of his net wages amounts to £3, and is and, as I say, the position in these housing banked to his account with the department. camps is quite satisfactory. He is allowed to draw from this account to buy clothing. At the present time he has Apart from the amendment giving the £122 to his credit at the bank. department power to increase grants where necessary, the most important amendment is The second example is that of an appren­ that giving extra protection to children who tice plumber. This lad is now 18 years of are placed in employment. The first pro­ age. As he has not completed his apprentice­ vision deals with children who are appren­ ship he is still under the supervision of the ticed, and the second with children who are department, but he controls his own wages, employed without being apprenticed. Some which are £8 a week. He has over £200 to children are apprenticed and some are not. his credit in the bank. Some of them go into callings where there are awards and some obtain employment in The third example is an apprentice painter. callings where there are no awards. He is in his fourth year of apprenticeship. His wages are over £7 per week. This lad The Act as it now stands sets out that all now has £17 4 to his credit in the bank, after indentures of apprenticeship shall be paying his board, clothing, pocket money in the form prescribed. That is the usual and fares. I think those figures speak for apprenticeship indenture. However, the themselves, and are tangible results of the Apprenticeship Act now governs apprentices, work of this department. whether State wards or not, and all apprenticeships are arranged through the Every effort is made to prevent State Apprenticeship Committee. The amendment wards from being put into dead-end jobs, provides that the usual indentures shall con­ and the number of State wards apprenticed tain, where considered necessary or desirable compares favourably with the number of by the Minister, in addition to the matters apprentices from children living with their set out in The Apprentices and Minors Acts, O>vll families. Other State children are further provisions regarding the maintenance placed in various avenues of employment and religious instruction of the apprentice, other than apprenticeships, such as the Public Service and insurance offices. Girls and the ensuring of the due payment of all take up dressmaking, and many do shop wages, the amount if any which the foster and factory work. Others are placed in parent is entitled to deduct from such wages rural employment and others in domestic for board and lodging, the amount to be service. paid to the child as pocket money, and the payment of the balance to the State This section enables the Minister to deter­ Children Department to be credited to the mine the rates of wages payable, the amount child. to be deducted by the foster parent for State Children Acts and [21 MARCH.] Anothe1· Act Amendt. Bill. 1905

board, and any other conditions appertain­ The tenth amendment deals with variations ing to the employment. This is particularly of the amount recoverable under a court order so in those avenues of employment not to enable the actual maintenance expended covered by awards, such as rural and domes­ by the department to be recovered, if the tic work, and where the State child resides person liable is considered able to pay that with his or her employer. It will be seen amount. that as the department is still the guardian of the child, it is necessary that the fullest The remaining two amendments to the State }JOssible power be given to the department Children Act give the necessary power to through the Minister to ensure the well-being prescribe in the regulation rates of payment suggested in the previous amendment and in every way of children who have taken up employment. ratify what is being done respecting increased payments made prior to the amendment. The seventh amendment deals with the recovery by the department from persons The last amendment is of the Adoption of liable for the maintenance of the children of Children Acts, 1935 to 1941. It is in respect money expended by the department as main­ of one section only and is aimed at closing a tenance for State children. As the Act now possible loophole by which some person might stands, the maximum amount recoverable is obtain some monetary consideration by the J2s. a week for each child, 'Yhercas the cost adoption of a child. It makes it unlawful for to tho department is £1 a week. The amend­ any payment whatsoever to be made in connec­ ment eliminates any specific amount and gives tion with the adoption of a child without the the court power to make an order for any consent of the Director. amount sufficient to cover the cost to tlie department. I am sure that all hon. members will support the action nmY being taken to The eighth amendment is intended to strengthen the machinery by which ~he less strengthen the position of the department as fortunate children of onr commumty are l'egards the recovory of maintenance due under cared for and prepared for a happy aU

Estimates the amount of £206,596, which is the provision to an indefinite amount, and quite a considerable sum; but we get value this is only common sense, because costs vary fat the money we expend. from clay to day, and we clo not want to be The Minister raised the question of the dealing with amending Bills every few months responsibility of the Commonwealth and the in order to alter amounts. We on this side State in regard to the provision of the various have spoken about this matter in connection social services. I know this is a particularly with other legislation such as that dealing touchy question and the problem has many with State insurance, and miners' pensions difficulties. Of course, the States had social that have been brought before us from time services in operation before the Common­ to time for alteration in payments owing to wealth entered into that field, and we have changed conditions. By this Bill we fix no carried on most of those social services our­ set amount; we leave it open for the Govern­ selves. Prior to uniform taxation we pro­ ment to alter the amount from time to time vided the taxation and maintained those by means of regulations, and, after all, those organisations, and now we have to allocate regulations will come under the scrutiny of from the share of taxation that comes to us this Parliament. from the Commonwealth the amount that we The payments to be made come under four think should be allocated to the social ser­ headings, these being- vices we provide. So you can see that both Capitation allowances to licensed institu­ the Commonwealth and the States get the tions. money they expend on social services from a Court orders for maintenance. common source-from the pockets of the tax­ payers. We appreciate the fact that we are Court orders against more than one male getting a greater share of the taxation person for maintenance of an illegitimate 1·evenue collected than we ever got and it is child, 'and our responsibility to split up those revenues Payments to foster mothers. according to our requirements, so we cannot Apparently the existing limit of 12s. that after all blame the Commonwealth for not was fixed in 1943 has been exceeded by the having sufficient money to carry out the department ancl the Bill seeks to ratify that activity, particularly of an important depart­ action. ment like the State Children Department, Another feature of the Bill is that it speci­ which we should like to see extend its opera­ fies the terms and conditions of hire or tions further. As I said, the moneys come vpprenticeship of State children. The claust' from a common source-from the taxpayer's containing theso provisions covers approxi­ poc~et-;-and, after all, the amount we can get mately two pages of the Bill. The Act now 1s lumted, and we should make the best states- possible use of it when we come to allocate '' All indentures of apprenticeship and it. I believe we do, as the result of the agnements for the placing out for hire of efficient direction given to the operations of State children under this Act shall be in t~e State C?ildr_en Department by the the forms prescribed ancl shall contain pro­ Duector aucl h1s officers. I think the Minister visions to the satisfaction of the Minister· will be the first to say ''Hear, hear! '' to for the maintenance and religious instruc­ that statement. tion for such children, and for the clue The only real changes made by the Bill payment of such wages as are payable are those relating to the age limit and the thereunder.'' prohibition against adoption authorities. The We left it to the discretion of the Minister age limit is raised from 5 to 21 years, which to fix those amounts ancl conditions, ancl now means that under the new legislation any we are writing into this legislation the vari­ child under the age of 21 years can be ous conditions and terms of payment ancl so adopted. The present Act prohibits 'any on. payment to the applicant for an adoption authority. It is now proposed to prohibit All the proposed changes are necessary and payment to any person whatsoever, ancl that desirable. I believe they will make for the is desirable. I should say very few cases better working of the Act ancl bring about would come under that provision. greater efficiency, if that is at all poss~b~e, in the State Children Department in aclmmlS· We have not had any. Mr. Moore: tering the Act. Mr. NICKLIN: But I agree entirely with the inclusion of the provision. I do not Motion (Mr. Moore) agreed to. think anybody could have any objection to these two changes. We should certainly be DAIRY PRODUCE ACTS AMENDMENT lacking in our responsibility if we clicl not BILL. take the opportunity to tighten up anything that neeclecl attention in connection with pay­ SECOND READING--RESUMPTION OF DEBAT_E. ments to applicants for adoption authorities. De,bate resumed from 20 March (see It is an undesirable practice and we clo not p. 1893) on Mr. Collins 's motion- want to let it creep in where children who come under the supervision of this depart­ '' That the Bill be now read a second ment are concerned. time.'' The only other changes are those dealing lUr. TURNER (Kelvin Grove) (2.15 p.m.): with payments. The present limit of 12s. a I commend this Bill to the House because no week for each child was fixed by the amend­ primary industry in the State requires ing Act of 1943. It is now proposed to alter greater development than the milk side of the· Dairy Produce Acts [21 MARCH.) Amendment Bill. 1907 dairying industry and I express my dis­ that he hoped the system of payment on appointment that the milk. side of the industry butter-fat content, which was adopted by the has not been developed to the extent that it factory in which he was interested, would should have been developed. The butter continue. Both those men are connected with section has been developed to a higher this industry and they have two entirely degree than any other section of the industry different opinions. in the Commonwealth, and great credit is reflected on the organisation. On the other Mr. Muller: He did not say that. hand, the raw-milk side of the dairying ~lr. TURNER: I think it was the hon. industry has, in my opinion, been neglected. member for Marodian, and he said that quite I do not know why this has been so. The clearly. hon. member for Fassifern said that the business of processing milk could not be I think payment on butter-fat content is developed or extended because the Govern­ the fairest way. It may be cumbersome, but ment were unable to see their way clear to it is the fairest way from the point o E view granting two-thirds of the amount required of the producer. We want milk of the highest to establish it. The butter section of the standard, and any man who gets a high industry, I say again, has been a long time butter-fat content in his milk by specialising in developing that aspect of it, and now in his stock and in the care of his stock, inroads are being made into the business by should be rewarded. The only real way to the processors of milk. The dairying reward such a man is to give him a high organisations should have taken action many price for his milk. years ago to meet this challenge and not Mr. Muller: I supported the Bill in that allow outside organisations, termed private respect. enterprise, to steal their thunder. }Ur. TURNER: The Bill does not lay The Bill is only an experiment, giving the down any fixed system. It gives the processing firms an opportunity of establish­ Governor in Council three options. ing themselves and developing the processing business to a degree to which we as a Gov­ Mr. liuller: The Bill allows you to sell t•rnment think the industry should be by weight and I was supporting it. developed. The Bill does not give these l\Ir. TURNER: If we want to encourage people any adyantages because they have to dairymen to produce milk of the highest compete with established organisations and quality and under the most hygienic con­ will have to give higher_ prices to pro­ ditions, we must pay them for it, in the same ducers than are now being given to the way as the Butter Board has done on its producers by their own organisations. Any side. It set up its own laboratory and tested organisation that allows private enterprise to every vat of butter that came in. If a defect give the producer more than the producer's was found the board was able to trace the own organisations give him has only itself source of the defect and it would send a to blame. These people have a big hurdle note to the producer concerned pointing out before them in starting operations and they the defect in his milk. The producer would will not begin, in my opinion, for at least then set about eliminating the cause of the another two years, the first difficulty of course trouble. If the raw-milk section of the being in getting a factory built. The co-opera­ industry had done likewise and had pointed tive societies will have at least two years in these things out to the suppliers, those who which to prepare to meet any competition were interested enough would have this new business might offer. So that they endeavoured to improve the quality of their :ue not in the dark. They will have to start product. If they were unable themselves out in the other industry and it is for them to do anything about removing the cause to show their ability to compete with private of the trouble, they could always call on the enterprise. Hon. members opposite are always officers of the Department of Agriculture and saying that private enterprise should not be Stock for their help. interfered with in any way, but in this instance they are saying that private enter­ These developments must take place in prise is interfering with their interests. Will the industry. The more we develop Queens­ the people who are at present in the industry land and the further we get away from the prove that they are capable of successfully position where milk and butter can be pro­ meeting this portended opposition~ They have duced in great quantities, the more must been able to do it in the past. They have powdered milk come into its own. The hon. done an excellent job on the butter-producing member for Fassifern gave a very lucid side, not only in the interests of the producer explanation of the two methods that have but in the interests of the consumer. been experimented with, that is, the roller system and the spray system. Why have I was rather amazed last night to hear they not undertaken development on that the hon. member for Fassifern express the side of the industry~ The Government hope that the present system of paying for cannot be asked to advance large sums of milk would not be changed. I hope he will money without some definite basis for it. correct me if I am not quoting him correctly, If the leaders of the industry came along but I feel sure he said he hoped that pay­ to the Government and made a definite pro­ ment would continue to be made by measure posal, saying, ''We could have a factory here and not on butter-fat content. He said that with certain machinery and it will cost so­ the butter-fat content system was too cum­ much,'' I am sure that the Government bersome. However, he was followed by would be generous, as they have been over another member of the Opposition, who said the years, and advance the necessary funds, 1908 Dairy Produce Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. just as they have advanced funds during time and money to organise their industry recent months to help the industry over the and make it as efficient as it is. I do not drought problems. The Government have argue that any Government should prevent come to the aid of farmers with fodder and any other enterprise from coming here, but so on and have tried to help them to over­ we do say that the people already here, the come the effects of the drought. people who have done so much in the organisa­ tion of an industry and in the manufacture I feel sure that the leaders of this industry of a product for which there is a keen are capable of doing more than is done at demand, should not be disturbed to the present, that is, if they applied themselves extent that they may lose the whole of their to the problems. What they have achieved in interest in that industry. one section of the industl·y could be achieved in this other section. They have two years The butter and cheese factories have carried in which to meet the problem and I feel sure out a great deal of research work too a~d that if they do their b,est they will succeed. now therp has come a demand for another I have no brief for these other people. I milk product. I listened with a great deal know what happened in this State many years of interest to the views expressed by the ago. A factory was established at Wyrcema; hon. member for Kelvin Grove and I have these people came along and swallowed it up. no desire to take an unfair advantage of What did they do immediately they had him by saying what I have to say now that obtained control of it and put the others out he is in the chair and unable to reply to me. However, let me tell him in a very friendl:· of business~ They closed it. They built a cheese factory at N erang. What happened to way that he does not know everything about it~ It never opened. 'l'hey did that to drive this industry. He says that the man who out our own people and stopped progress. produces the best milk should get the best With that history and experience I say to price, but eYerything depends upon what the those in the industry now, ''Develop your milk is used for. Everyone knows that milk industry as you are capable of developing is an essential food for the human being, it. If you do that, your competitors will but we must remember also that if it has hesitate before opening the factory at too much fat it has not the same food value Gympie.'' n s milk with a balanced quantity of fat. Many people do not know that it is the solids Mr. PLUNKETT (Darlington) (2.27 plus the fat in the milk that are required p.m.): 'rhe Department of Agriculture and and that is why this Government, and all Stock has done a very big job in the dairy­ other Go.-ernments throughout the world. ing industry. \'le in the industry have been have adopted a standard for milk offered for closely associated with the present Minister, human consumption. Queensland stipulates previous Ministers and departmental officers a butter fat content of 3.3 per cent. and I in the development of that industry. I have think the same standard applies in the other great regard for the Minister and his officers. States. That is why it is necessary in man:' I should say that Queensland has never had places to use separators to take the snrpluR such highly efficient officers in the Depart­ fat off the milk. In cheese manufHcture too ment of Agriculture and Stock as there are much fat in the milk is a detriment: there today. They are giving a wonderful service must be a standard milk free of surplus fat. to the dairying industry in every way. If any of the factories are in trouble in regard The hon. member says that the raw-milk to quality or anything like· that and the side of the industry has been neglected. It attention of the department is drawn to it, may have been, to a point. People say, an officer of the department is made available "Why do you not do these thingsW" The immediately to get to the bottom of the dairying industry in Queensland is a highly trouble. That has happened particularly over co-operative one and the co-operative societies the last few years. These men know their work cannot hold any great amount of funds and have given great help to the industry. because profits are all returned to the farmers every year. That being so, if they want tlf I am not only friendly with the Minister go into any big project that will cost much but also friendly with the departmental money, thAy haYe to know just where they officers and any remarks I make in respect will get the finance. We had reached the of this Bill are not made in a personal sense. Rtngc in 1945 'after the war when we were going ahead with production and we thought In the main everyone will agree >vith the the time had arrived when the industry itself measure and the only objection perhaps is to should go a step further and not only make that provision that will give an advanta.ge powrlered milk but become associated with to some people over others already in the the di8trihution of milk in the various citics country. No-one will deny that the dairy throughout Queensland. When we examiner1 farmers of Queensland have established the position we fouNd it would involve some­ efficient factories and they have paid for them thing like £250,000 at that time. themselves. They have developed their indus­ try efficiently, especially on the manufacturing Before we attempted to do 'anything we got side, and thus they are responsible for much n man who had been handling milk products of thP settlement of the country districts of in England to come here and tell us all about the State. They are supplying; a product processing and the cost. We obtained a worth abont £70,000,000 annually to Queens­ lengthy report from him and recommenda­ land and in view of all these facts we must tions. When we saw what it would cost we he careful not to disturb them after they wondered how we would finance it. Vve have gone out of their way and spent their thought the number of factories that would Dairy Produce Acts (21 MARCH.] Amendment Bill. 1909 be in~Brested in the erection of a factory in Mr. PLUNKETT: No. I am saying now the City would perhaps be responsible for that in my opinion no Government should one-thud of the cost, and seeing it was a prevent people from coming into the country national industry that would produce food and establishing production by new methods. that was necessary in the city especially, it Mr. Collins: Just what do you want? would be fair to ask the Government for a loan. We did not want anything for nothing Mr. PLUNKETT: We do not want the from the Government. Judging by the Government to give these people the remarks of some hon. members, they are of privileges that will be accorded to them by the opinion that we asked the Government to this Bill. finance the whole thing. We asked the late Mr. Collins: Otherwise, you are satisfien? Mr. Hanlon to have a look at the scheme. The document containing the outline of the Mr. PLUNKETT: I told the Minister scheme is on the files of the department. The what these farmers had clone. late Premier received the deputation very Mr. Collins: You want a fair go? well and he told us it appeared to be a very ·big project. We told him that unless the Mr. PLUNKETT: That is all one should dairying industry got the good will of the expect. These people for whom this legis­ Government they could not carry out the lation is introduced have clone a wonderful project. In order to get the milk to the job iu manufacturing a much-needed product. best markets we not only needed an official 'The hon. member for Kelvin Grove tried to method of dealing with it but it would be lay the blame on the farmer because he had necessary to buy out some of the distributors not done certain things, but I remind him of milk. The late Premier said he would that it will require an expenditure of £150,000 examine the position and let us know what to instnll the plant necessary to process milk the Government were prepared to do; but we by this new method. The plant required is had no reply afterwards. totally different fl'om that used in the manu­ facure of butter and cheese. That expendi­ Mr. Collins: What year was that pro­ ture in itself is a considerable hurdle, and posal put up~ when one receives no reply to a request for a loan from the Government, one is Mr. PLUNKETT: 3 May, 1945. discouraged. Mr. Collins: You never suggested it to I do not see how we can prevent thPse n1e. people from coming here and I do not know why we should want to do so. In view of Mr. PLUNKETT: We never had a reply what these people have already done and as a result of the deputation to the late seeing that they are established, the Govern­ Premier, and we felt the Government were ment, however, cannot fairly give them a not vE-ry much interested in it. Perhaps privilege they are not prepared to give to we should have persevered with it more than the existing organisations. In this Bill I we did. As time went on conditions became see some advantnges to the newcomer ana worse and droughts occurred. We have, how­ the first is that the Government are going ever, adopted methods of dealing with milk to give him the right to canvass for sup­ produets in Queensland and again I draw pliers. I draw the attention of new members attention to the fact that Queensland's dairy on the Government benches to the fact tltat produce is the cheapest in the world. some time ago the Government brought in legislation to prevent canvassing for milk Mr. Collins: No. from butter factories. Mr. Collins: Butter and cheese factories, Mr. PLUNKETT: I say it is. This is but not for human consumption. This is for l1orne out by the fact that large organisations human consumption. from overseas have established factories here. One point to be remembered is that the :ilir. PLUNKETT: The Minister does not co-operative people are here all the time say that. whereas these large overseas concerns usually :ilir. Collins: Yes, it is for human have world-wide ramifications and command a consumption. great deal of capital. They are an entirely different proposition for the producers of this Mr. PLUNKETT: Show me the clause or any other country. in the Bill. I am telling the Minister that his Government brought in legislation to The hon. member for Kelvin Grove said that prevent canvassing by butter and cheese these same people for whom we are legis­ factories to meet their requirements in regard lating now were here some years ago but had to milk. Is that not right~ Under the Bill relinquished their Queensland interests and most of this processed milk will go overseas. gone elsewhere. That is so, but there are Mr. Collins: For human consumption. several reasons why they left. One was that It will go to the western parts of Queenslanrl IYhereas company taxation in this State was and other parts of the State. levied on a graduated scnle ranging from 6 per cent. to 15 per cent., it was levied on a Mr. PLUNKETT: It will not take much flat rate in Victoria and they closed their to suppl;v Queensland's wants. factories here and transferred their activities JUr. Collins: Do you not want the to that State. country to get milk~ Mr. Collins: Are you arguing that they Mr. Riordan: Why can they not send should not be allowed to come here~ skimmed milk out to the western areas~ 1910 Dairy Produce Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

Mr. PLUNKETT: If these people are milk. That means that they will be able to prepared to come here and establish their go out and tempt the producers to give them industry, good luck to them. their supplies. Whilst the Government are 1\Ir. Collins: Now you are getting senl:le. giving ~hat privilege to the newcomer, they are saymg to the people who are already .Mr. PLUNKETT: The Minister is begin­ established, ''You are not allowed to canvass, mug to understand. I am putting this in because you are a butter factory or a cheese his own language. If they are prepared to factory.'' come to this country and spend their money in establishing new businesses and enter into :ilir. Collins: You can canvass among :omp~tition with dairying associations already your own suppliers. 1n exlstence-- Mr. Collins: You are taking my argu­ :ilir. PL UNKETT: Why should these ment away from me. people be allov>ed to canvass at all~ Why not malw them build up their industry in th'e 1l!r. PLUNKETT: The Minister never san~e way as everybody else has had to~ Sup­ had an argument. posmg these people come in with a flourish of tl"umpets and with the backing of the law 1\Ir. Collins: I have the Bill. and get every encouragement from business Mr. PLUNKETT: His Government are people in the district, what will happen if giving these people an open invitation to they pay good prices for the first six month& come here and establish themselves. They are and rope in a lot of suppliers but have to protected inasmuch as they will be allowed decrease their prices during the next six to canvass for supplies but" the Minister says months • Will a butter factory then be able to the organisation already established here to go out and canvass to get its old suppliers that it cannot canvass. to come back to them~ I am sure hon. mem­ bers will agree with me that an anomaly Mr. Collins: No, definitely not. There exists there. is nothing to stop canvassing within your own suppliers and you know that better than I I have no reason to object to these do. There cannot be canvassing by one people, but when they come here they should factory against another. not receive any legislative advantage over the people who ha.-e built up this industry over Mr. PLUNKETT: The Bill I spoke of was brought in to stop canvassing between the years. I ask the members for Nash ancl one factory and another. That Act has been P~rt Curtis what will happen in their dis­ in existence for goodness knows how long. tncts. There arc seven factories in the Port The idea was to enable the industry to become Curtis area, every one of which was built up established; the factories knew \vhere they under the greatest difficulties and has gone through a?verse seasons. What will happen were. Th~s Bill will allow a new company to come m and the Government are g·iving to them 1f a newcomer can canvass their it the right to canvass. The Minister knows suppliers~ Not only are these people allowed what that means in regard to getting dairy to canvass for milk, but they are allowed to produce. I do not know why he gives this canvass for cream also. The butter factories company the right to canvass. It has been want cream for manufacturing into butter said that it will mean more monev for the and these people will be able to canvass fo; farmers; that was said by some !Ion. mem­ cream supplies as well as milk supplies. Whv bers opposite. vVhy not let them come should th~y ~ave that advantage~ As I say, and establish their business, the same as I. am OhJechng strenuously to their being anybody else has had to do W g1ven any advantage at all. If anybody is to have an advantage, it should be the people Mr. Collins: If you have an equal right who are already manufacturing an article to canvass, have you any objection~ for which there is at present a world sale. I do not think hon. members opposite would Mr. PLUNKETT: I have explained support this Bill if they understood what it previously to the Minister why we have not really meant. I feel sure they believe that developed this side of the industry. We competition should always be fair. could not get any loan money from the Gov­ ernment. We made an approach to the The industry has been developed on a Government, but there you are. co-operative basis, and I 'admit that the lUr. Collins: I have been the Minister powers given to the co-operatives by Labour since 1946 and you have not asked me. Governments have enabled the great develop·· ment that has taken place in the industrv 1\Ir. PLUNKETT: We asked in 1945. but I want to make one point in regard td the policy of our co-operative enterprise as ltir. Collins: You have not asked me since I have been the Minister, so that it against private enterprise. The butter and cannot be a very burning question. cheese that are manufactured today is made available to the Australian people. We have Mr. PLUNKETT: We asked the Premier. prohibited the export of butter during times As it was a new project, we thought he would of shortage. Will these other people do that be the best man to approach. in regard to their product when the over­ seas price is higher than the Australian As I said before, under the Bill as it price? Will the Government get them to do stands, the Government will give these new­ the same thing~ comers, whoever they may be, the right to canvass for supplies, if they are processing lllr. Collins: Of course. Dairy Produce Acts [21 MARCH.] Amendment Bill. 19H

Mr. PLUNKETT: It would take other product, and after they have done all that action to do it, but we do it voluntarily. it is now proposed that they should be dis­ }lr. Collins: Legally. turbed. Expressing my own personal view, let me tell the Minister that if these other }lr. PLUNKETT: As far as possible we people want to come here we cannot stop s~e ~hat during times of shortage butter is them. We do not want to stop them. d1stnt.uted to each State. Our equalisation Mr. Collins: On the one hand you say scheme enables us to do that. It does not that you do not want any interference in matter whether you are in Queensland New any way, and on the other hand you say South Wales, Victoria or anywhere el~e the you do not mind if they come. price is the same throughout Australia. That is the · policy of the board, and we do not Mr. PLUNKETT: For the past five want to see members of our board who have minutes I have •been speaking about the done so much to develop the industry placed evils of canvassing, and arguing that we at a disadvantage. If the Minister considered should not be disturbed, that no-one should what he was doing and understood what he be allowed to come along and take our was doing, I think he would hesitate before supplies from us by offering a better price. doing it. I do not know how they will go about it, but they will be allowed to advertise over lUr. Collins: I understand it better than you. the radio and in any other way they like, while those at present in the industry will be put in a strait-jacket and told to keep Mr. PLUNKETT: There is another matter in the Bill to which I object. I quiet. That is the attitude to be adopted refer to the system of licensing routes over towards the people who have made the which milk and cream are transported to the industry. yarious factories. I think that system was I suggest in all seriousness that the Instituted shortly before the present Minister Minister might have another look at Clause took. office. It has been a great advantage to 8. Let me remind him, too, that recently the mdustry and has enabled it to control the another factory was established in Queens­ cartage of its products. Under the proposed land. We welcome these manufactures in sc~er;1e there is provision to vary some of the country areas, because they mean develop­ eXlstmg routes, to create new routes, and to ment. They need supplies and they have cancel others. As a person on one of those world-wide ramifications. They have come to existing routes, I should be fearful that, Queensland and they have had to go out into with those powers, cancellation or variation the country districts where the milk is pro­ of routes would be authorised to my dis­ duced in order that they may be able to advantage compared with the person who make cheese. This other new company is i60Gived a licence to canvass, which is denied just as new as the one we have been discus­ to me. The extent to which the industry is sing will be and it was prevented from can­ dependent on the good will of the Govern­ vassing for supplies, but the new company ment is obvious and, while we do not mind that will require the milk for processing p_ur­ fair competition, whether it is from proces­ poses will be able to do as it likes in the sing factories or other factories, we cannot matter of canvassing. I am suggesting to see the reason why the other people should the Minister that that is not in the best receive an advantage. I am opposed to the interests of the industry, and tha·t he should idea of giving rights to some people and have another look at the proposal to allow denying the same rights to others. free and unrestricted canva.ssing. If he It should be the aim of all of us to increase wants canvassing, I do not want it. The­ primary production. We know the difficulties industry does not want it. We knocked that that have been suffered by producers during on the head over 20 years ago, and we ~ave the recent drought. We know that the followed the present practice religiously ever Govemment have come to the aid of pro­ since. Now it is proposed to introduce legis­ ducerH by providing funds for the purchase lation to turn that practice upside down and of fouder, but when all is said and done the give the right of canvass to one company. stock that are kept alive are a national asset. illr. Collins: Last night the speakers The stock belong to the farmers, but while from your side said they wanted a fair go. they are producing something they are add­ You have changed your mind. ing to the wealth of the country, and the community as a whole derive benefit. The Mr. PL UNKETT: The hon. gentleman producers have experienced many difficulties will pick on anything to suit his argument. and have provided a great deal of money to He is ~sking me what I want and I am make the factories as up to date as possible. telling him that the industry does not want I suppose each one of our factories is as up canvassing. · to date as it can be made. }lr. Collins: Are you speaking for the The reason why the co-operatives have not whole of the Opposition' brought their factories more up to date than they are is that they have not been able to 1\Ir. PLUNKETT: I am ~Speaking for get the necessary equipment, but they have myself and from my position in the industry. never hesitated to spend money whenever it We do not want canvassing and we ask the was necessary to improve their output. They Minister not to disturb the legislation that have built up their industries, they have was introduced some years ago and has do:1e organised transport, developed the manufac­ so much good in this connection. He is going turing side and attended to the sale of their to scrap it because apparently someone has 1912 Dairy Produce Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. asked him to scrap it. Let him have another difficulty in getting supplies of oil and grease look at that proposal and above all, let him from some of the oil companies because they decide not to give anybody an advantage do not believe in making exorbitant profits over the people already there. from the people who use these very necessary articles. Jlr. Collins: You are changing your mind. A while ago you said :you wanted a For some time now the existence of the fair go. assets of these co-operative societies has been threatened by the intrusion of the grazing Jlr. PLUNKETT: And in asking for a interests, which are buying up the farms. :fair go I ask the Minister to have another For instance, if there is a good dairy farm look at the proposal. It is only natural that with 400 or 500 acres of Rhodes grass in the we should protect our own people from unfair Monto or Mount Lareom area, or even any­ competition. where in the State, the grazier buys it, immediately sells the house and sheds for We want the Minister to give them as fair removal and converts that good dairy farm a go as the other people are going to get, with its artificial grasses into a fattening but this Bill does not give it to them. I paddock. In this way farm after farm has hope the Minister will amend Clause 8 par­ ilisappearei!. The next step is that the ticularly, which to me is a bit of a nigger little school that served such a good purpose in the woodpile. I hope the Minister will finds its attendance below the required daily look into it and see whether he cannot average number and is closed. remedy the trouble in some way. Then the cream route is 'affected. Because Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (3.6 p.m.): of the small number of suppliers, it becomes At the outset I wish to pay a compliment unprofitable for the carrier to continue the to the eo-operative societies and particularly run. Unfortunately, all dairy farmers can­ the eo-operative dairy societies, which have not be . adjacent to railway lines. In the done a wonderful job for the dairying indus­ Monto district, for instance, it is not unusual try in this State. We all know that about to see cream carried for 20 miles over a cream 40 years ago private enterprise would not route. As the number of farms dwindles the put any money into the dairying industry, carrier ceases to operate the run. and Queensland would still be in a very Another thing that interferes with the undeveloped state if it were not for the economy and good working of the industry establishment of co-operative dairy societies, has been the lack of eo-operation by the throughout the State. In my electorate Postmaster-General's Department in recent I can remember as a lad when the Port years. The cream carriers usually took bread Curtis Dairy Association was established. and meat to the farmers on their return The history of that association is a journey and invariably they held mail con­ remarkable one; it could be described as tracts also. The position has now reached romantic. Those who were interested in the stage where the Federal Govern~ent have establishing it canvassed the town and asked made the mail contract so attractive as to people to make contributions to establish induce carriers to refuse to cart cream, with it, but they held out no hope that you would the result that farmers are required to bring get yogr capital back. They more or less their own cream from the farms to the asked you to regard it as a donation towards delivery point, and many of the roads are the establishment of a new industry. They not good. built up a very small butter factory and a local man who hail not much experience was Reverting to the question of the activities appointed manager because he was much of the grazing interests in buying these cheaper than a more qualified man. When farms and converting the land into fattening that organisation was built up it absorbed paddocks, it is my firm belief that we are private concerns in Rockhampton, and today fast approaching the time when this Govern­ it is a mighty organisation that in an ment will find it neeesmry to take back that ordinary year, such as last year, turns over land and have it closely settled again. This about £2,000,000. It has accumulated quite is especially so round Monto and throughout a lot of assets, and the efficiency of its plant the Boyne Valley, an area that was closely would impress even a layman. Inspecting settled when I was a boy. If they do that it will be necessary to make it a condition the Port Curtis Dairy Company's factory in Gladstone and th_sn inspecting the factory that whoever occupies the land does so only on condition that he cultivates it and makes of Swifts is like walking out of daylight into the best use of it in the interests of the the darkness. The cleanliness and hygiene, which are so desirable, are . very evident. economy of the country. You could truthfully say that you could eat I know that the sympathy of hon. members your breakfast off the floor. The same can opposite for the dairyman and the dairying be said of the other factories that I have industry is not so great as to cause. them to inspected throughout Queensland. The interfere with the squatter or brg cattle societies controlling them have developed owner. I say that any political party that co-operative concerns and fought the big is sincerely interested in the welfare and private interests. Many of the big firms economy of the State should face up to this handling different brands of machinery will job courageously. I know that in my own not supply them because they dare to return electorate graziers have canvassed the people; a portion of the pro:iii; to the purchaser of they employed Communists to canvass against the machinery in t!::t: form of a bonus at me because I advocated cutting up of the land the end of the yea:<. '.rhey also have great in order to preserve the assets of the people Dairy Produce Acts [21 lVL.utCH.] Amendment Bill. 1913 in the form of a co-operative butter factory. cultivated, nor is the soil treated. The day Hon. members opposite know, particularly the must come when we shall have to do those hon. members for Darlington, Fassifern and things or go without necessary foodstuffs. Warwick, that the cost of manufacturing a With regard to canvassing, I assure hon, pound of butter has jumped up by leaps and ·members opposite that if any benefit is given bounds and we know also that much of the to a private concern and denied to a rise has been due to inflation. \V c know co-operative concern, I shall not tolerate it. further that if you have producell 100,000 My seat in this House would not be worth units a year and your production goes down to the price of supporting it. Hon. members 50,000 units, the cost of production for each opposite are on the horns of a dilemma in unit must go up, because a great deal of the this instance. We do not hear members of administrative expenses cannot be reduced. the Liberal Party condemning this private l\Ir. Muller: What is a unit? enterprise, nor do we hear any hon. member opposite talking about Socialism, to which Mr. BURROWS: An article. If we co-operative industries in Queensland owe looked in the hon. mcmlJcr 's heail we should their success. The co-operative movement know 1vhat zero was. I am not going to be in Queensland is my interpretation of Social­ put off my argument by inane interjections ism, and it will be a happy day for every­ hy hon. members who profess to be leaders in body when every industry in this State is the dairying industry, men who I say are conducted on a co-operative basis. If we leading the dairying industry along a false have more of the co-operative spirit and less trail. of the selfish spirit displayed by hon. mem­ bel's opposite, we shall be a lot better off. Mr. Plunkett: You believe in canvassing? I do not doubt for a minute that the Mr. BURROWS: I shall deal with the intrusion of this big concern in Gympie will question and I shall not talk with my tongue cause some alarm to the directors of the in my cheek as hon. members opposite have existing factory. However, they will have done. I take this opportunity of registering to face up to the position. I have enough mv view that the Government will have to faith in the co-operative movement to believe ta"rcity of Brisbane milk-supplier~ problem we are facing; it is the cause of :i}lr. lUORRIS: Yes. the present trouble. It all revolves round Mr. Collins: This does not deal with the establishment of a factory at Gympie. that at all. I submit that the Gympie district is capable of supporting both a butter factory and a Mr. ltiORRIS: It does deal with the processed·milk factory. It is my opinion, Dairy Produce Acts. too, that too much land is being used lUr. Collins: Yes, but the Brisbane milk­ extravagantly and not in the best interests &upplier is not under the Dairy Produce Acts. of the State. The Gympie district has a rainfall that is far more stable than that !Ir. 1\iORRIS: That may be so, but it of other districts, but quite a lot of the deals with Section 16, which covers the supply land there is being used for the raising of and conveyance of dairy products to fac· cattle. No artificial grasses are sown and tories, and Regulation 35 under this Act 1!)14 Dairy Produce Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. deals with individual suppliers. The matter right to set up and let it be known that they I have mentioned is one that is causing a are in business and will give the fanners great deal of concern to many suppliers, as more for their product than the butter fac­ you are no doubt aware. I am now airing tories will givcW I am amazed at the t;heir grievance and giving you an oppor­ attitudes of the Opposition-they vary so tnnity to rectify it. much from time to time. Here we have the Country Party-and I take it their co­ Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands­ operators or collaborators or fellow-travellers, Secretary for Agriculture and Stock) (3.27 the Liberal Party-opposing private enter­ p.m.), in reply: I am amazed at the atti­ prise from coming here and spending their tude of some hon. members opposite. I am own money and helping what they would nor­ fully conscious of the great work done by mally call a socialistic enterprise, the eo-operative butter factories and cheese fac­ co-operative enterprise in the dairying indus­ tories. I have been a member of a cheese try that has been helped by the Government factory, a milk factory, a butter factory and from time to time. Their attitude is amaz­ a bacon factory-and I am still a member­ ing and one just cannot realise that it can ever since I have been in Queensland, and I come from these selfsame people, unless we know the great work that has been done. I go back and read a few of the headlines in have been on the boards of those factories. the Press recently concerning the action of I am not for one moment trying to detract their fellow-travellers in the Commonwealth from the good work that they have done for Parliament. For instance, there is this head­ the dairying industry. I do not think that line, ''Business now lies at the mercy of any member on this side of the House would Goyernment officials.'' That was published desire to do that, but I am surprised that by a paper with no particular leanings hon. members opposite, who know all that towards Labour and it comes from a party the Government have done for the butter fac­ that is opposed to all kinds of control, a tories, should say what they have said and party that got into Parliament twice in the use the extravagant language they have used last two years because it was going to cut out during this debate. any form of control whatever. Now it is I eongratulate the hon. member for Dar­ suggesting one of the most severe forms of lington on the temperate manner in which he controls that any Government of this country appproached the subject and, up to a point, have ever seen. It looks as though hon. ihe conm1on-sense attitude he adopted. I members opposite here were simply following have great respect for the hon. member. I what is happening in the Federal Parliament. have great respect for the knowledge of the Here is another paragraph in the paper, industry possessed by other hon. members ''Panic has forced a savage ~ax by allowing who have spoken, but their attitude is amaz­ the position to develop towards economic ing. As a listened to the speeches I made crisis. The Government have been forced in notes of some of the statements that were a panic to adopt stringent and savage made, and I was surprised that members methods so far as our imports are concerned.'' who are charged with the responsibility of These statements are having repercussions in hon. members could utter such irresponsible the United Kingdom, where the people are statement such as these: ''We are giving the becoming unemployed, as this heading sug­ power to milk processors to wreck the butter gests, "Jobless threat in United Kingdom." factories. We are giving them power to vVe have entered into contracts for the sale exploit the butter factories. We are not of our primary products to the United King­ giving the butter factories a fair go. These people will sell their product in the best dom and only recently the sugar industry markets of the world and ruin the butter entered into a long-term contract with the factories. It gives the Minister complete United Kingdom to take our goods. They eontrol of the business.'' Where is there in can only pay for them with the goods they sell to us. Does that mean that we must the Bill anything that suggests those things~ "We are denying co-operative f'actories the repudiate or make it compulsory for them right to do the work.'' That statement was to repudiate the contracts they have made made in reference to milk-processing. "We with us~ have not shown the butter factories how The position is alarming and I only intro­ they can do the work." Those are some of duce these things at the moment to point out the very extravagant statements to which I that the party that hated anything in the refer. Does this Bill suggest anything of the nature of Government control, Government kind~ I am certain I am right in saying restriction, as they have said here from year that it does not. There is not one scintilla to year, now want us to interfere with private of truth in any of those very extravagant enterprise. For the last year or two their statements. parties in the Federal sphere have not been The hon. member for Fassifern suggested able to make up their minds where they arc that the only way in which they could get the going. Similarly hon. members opposite here milk away from the butter factories was to do not seem to know where they are going give the suppliers more than the butter fac­ in this respect because here is an editorial tories were prepared to give them. Is that by ''The Telegraph'' that says, ''Govern­ not of itself a pretty good reason why the ment does not know where or why.'' Bovernment should at least help or not do Here is another one, ''Savage body blow. anything to deter the people who are pre­ Commons bitter on the import cut.'' Then pared to come here, the people who know there is the heading to the editorial in ''The -their business and are prepared to spend their Telegraph,'' ''Drastic import cuts suggested ~t go away again~ of processing it for human consumption? Are "·e to export it all? Certainly not. Even if lUr. COLLINS: We are not stopping "·c were, it still would not change the prin­ anybody from coming in. We are not stop­ eiple. After all, people in other part of ping any co-operati;·e concern from starting the Empire have some right to our lwlp if in this busine~s. 'N c are trying to help the ,,-e ran give it to them. We do not even development of Queensland and to improve have to go as far as that. A huge numb '1' the position of the primary producer. of people in this State have to le content It has been said that the co-operative with tinned milk, powdered milk, or t1ric(1 companies are stultified because they are like milk, and a tremendous number of infants a man with his hands tied behind his back have to live on powdered milk. Is there nn ,. and that this company will have the right great difference between canvnFsing for fn•sl1 milk and for milk that is to be converterT to canvass and that they have 11ot the right into a different form, but still foe· lmmnn to canvass. vVhat is the answer to that" eonsumption ~ I ~:J.Y there is not. In effect, There is nothing to stop any co-operative that hns been the only criticism of this butter or cheese company from canvassing scheme, in respect of which improper moUvrc; amongst its own suppliers and telling them have been imputed. what a good job the IJarticular co-operative factory is doing and how beneficial it is to ~Ir. IIiley: On that argument, every the supplier to send his milk to the Brisbane cheese factory also should be able to canvass. Dairy Produce Acts [21 MARCH.] Amendment Bill. 1917

Mr. COLLINS: Not against another. lUr. COLLINS: I have already explained cheese fadory. I am not quite sure, but I that and the reason for that provision. I am could easily find out whether they could telling the hon. member also in the plainest canvass for milk for cheese against a butter language that I can use that we are prepared factory. During the war, they were required to give the butter factories the same right to make cheese in order to supplement our to canvass in their own area against the cheese production. milk-processing factory as we are giving to the milk-processing factory. I am not wedded to any particular scheme. The 12utter factories might be disadvantaged lUr. ~Iuller: That does not mean any­ by not having the right to canvass after thing. they have lost their suppliers. We all agree that they have the right to canvass among lUr. COLLINS: Well, if it does not mean their own suppliers till they lose them. It anything, the hon. member does not want it. could be that they could not canvass after I am afraid he will find it in the Bill. they have lost their suppliers to a milk JUr. Muller: I am pleading with you for company. I am prepared to consider an time to consider the matter. The industry rrmendment-in fact, I am prepared myself generally does not know what is in this Bill. to m<-ve it-that will give them the same right to canvass their own suppliers as a milk­ lUr. COLLINS: The Bill has been printed processing factory has to canvass its for a week. suppliers, .llir. ]Unller: They do not know what is in the Bill. Mr. Hiley: That is, to canvass against a mHk company, but not against another ]}Ir. COLLINS: The Bill has been printed :factory~ for a week, and if the industry is so inter­ ested in the matter surely they would know Mr. COLLINS: Not against a factory. what is contained in it in that time. Mr. }luller: Would you be prepared to JUr. Muller: How would they know? hold up the Committee stage of this Bill They did not see the Bill until yesterday. till next Thursday so that we could examine this matter~ We are having a meeting of lUr. COLLINS: Is the hon. member not our executive on Tuesday, and we should like one of the leading people in the butter the opportunity of discussing it. world? He knew what was in the Bill a week ago and does he not think he would 1lave an Mr. COLLINS: Is the hon. member sug­ obligation to inform them of its contents if gesting that the Premier of this State would they were so dull and backward that they desire to hold up legislation in this Assembly could not inform themselves by reading the to allow an outside non-elective body-- newspaper? Of course he would, and of course he did. Mr. }lnller: It is not a non-elective body. .llir. lUnller: You said as little as you could on the initiation. You made little or Mr. COLLINS: I have all the arguments no explanation. that have been advanced by the Opposition l1ere, and I propose to proceed with the Com­ lUr. COLLINS: I explained the matter. mittee stage of this Bill this afternoon. My explanation is contained in '' Hansard.'' I\Ir. lUnller: I have read it. Mr. Nicklin: The Premier said we were not going into the Committee stage this I\Ir. COLLINS: The hon. member will afternoon. see that I mentioned that it was proposed to allow them to canvass for milk supplies. Mr. COLLINS: I think the hon. gentleman is misinformed. However, if Mr. 1Unller: You said very little about there is any great difficulty about the matter it. I am prepared to defer it. We are, however, Mr. COLLINS: I said that. There was anxious to finish this business. I was amazed not such a lot to say, but that was the last night and today at the length of time main thing and that was the main point of that hon. members opposite could speak with discussion. It has been the main point of such little material available. After all, the speeches made today. What would be there was only one objection and it could wrong with the hon. member's undoing his have been dealt with in a quarter of the argumenU The hon. member for Darlington time they took. If that is the only problem this afternoon was shifting his ground. I they can see in regard to this Bill, I say say that despite my respect for him. He now that I am prepared to give the butter did not want any canvassing for anybody. factories an equal right with the milk­ The hon. member for Fassifern last night processing firms, but I am not prepared to wanted to have an equal right with the other prevent the dairy farmers of this State from people. You said, "If they have a right to getting increased prices for their products canvass, we want the right to canvass.'' If if it is pcssible for them to do so without you are getting it now, what complaint ~an injustice to the other people of the State. you have~ I feel sure he has no complamt, ~Ir. Muller: Will you tell me why you and that is his main problem at the moment, are prepared to give the milk-processors the that he has no complaint. right to do something that you are not pre­ iUr. 1Uuller: That is not so. You are pared to allow the butter and cheese factories giving them an advantage over the butter to do~ people. 1918 Dairy Produce &c., Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Agricultural Standards Bill.

Mr. COLLINS: I am giving the butter it is not easy for the rank and file to impTove people the . same right as the milk people. their production. \Ve should do all th~\t we When I said that, the hon. member said it possibly can to get greater production and. meant nothing. If it does not mean anything greater means of profit per person thDn we I .should not like to hazard a guess at what have at the present time. nnght mean something. Is the hon. member I have here a publication by the Queens­ s? . J:>ereft of imagination as to the possi­ land Dairymen's Organisation and it sets out ~nhbes o.f d~velopment of the dairying the production with various groups of dairy mdustry m this great State that he thinks cows. Here is one group consisting of 20 the intr?duction of one paltry milk-processing hercls that gave an average production of 1.4 plant will wreck the entire dairying industryf gallons a cow a day. The highest henl in I say that we have not touched the fringe the group was 3.5 gallons a cow a d:w. If of our potential production in this State. We have not even begun dairying ]Jroperly. o;re man can get 3~ gallons a day from all Ins cows and the average of the group is H~vc. the Government not helped to develop dauymg areas from :Mossman to the only 1.4 gallons a day surely there is a iielll for investigation there. I am not blaming l'lew t>outh Wales borcler~ HaYc we not in the same way helped to build anybody. The department is prepared to butter factories and establish the milk ~upply whatever knowledge it has for the henefi t of the industry and to give a service in~ustry? If hon. members opposite thmk that 50,000 tons of butter is the ma.xi­ to it. I. know that the Opposition recognise the service that the department gives to the m~m. tom:;age that can be produced by the dauymg mdustry of this State, I say they llairymen of this State and despite anything are totally bereft of imagination. I do not they may say we intend to continue to give it. think for one moment, and I will not believe Motion (Mr. Collins) agTced to. that that is the maximum tonnage we cm~ prol1uee. I say, aud say emtJhatically, that Hon. H. H. COLLIN§ (Tablelands­ we could quadruple our butter production Secretary foT Agriculture and Stock) ( 4.5 without using all our suitalJle dairying areas. p.m.): l do not propose to take this B1ll iuto We can double the production of butter and the Committee stage. If I might wake an milk in this State, without milking another explanation, I spoke to the Premier about cow or using another acre of land, by using it au(l he sai(l, "\Vell, you can if you y,-ish the land better and feeding the cows better. to do so''; but in deference to what the Wrong feeding is the basis of the low pro­ Opposition ha\'e said I am prepared to take the responsibility of making the Committee c~uctivity per cow in this State at the present time. ~tage of the Bill an order of the day for Tuesday next. I am not denying tha.t this State is capable of pr.oducing as good milk as any AGHfCTLTL:n \L STAl:\DARDS Bl"U •. other country m the woT!d. 'Ne have a person not very many miles from Brisbane wlio has SECOND READTXG. a cow that pro(]nced oYer 28,000 lb. of milk in the one ycnr, and I do not think there was Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands­ an:y other cow in the ·world in 1951 that Secretary for Agriculture and Stock) ( 4.6 produced that quantity. \Ve haYe the worlf1 p.m.l : I mm·e- record for cows. That shows that there is " 'That thr 13i]1 he no\V rea cl a ~"~-.:eond uoth~n.g inherently wrong with our climatic tilllC.:' conihbons or stock. If other countries of I gave a veTy full outline of the Bill in the the ·world can show a production of GOO to introductory stage. It is a Dill that can he 800 gallons of milk a cow a year and the dealt with n1ore effectively in the Corn111ittee Queensland production is al1outc 300 to 350 stage. It comprises a co:J:colitlation of fiyc gallons, or less than half of the average of .\cts. There is not a ·;reat Jeal that ic ot~er coun~ries and in some ~ases only one­ entirely new; a great mn1r bcr of the el:in~cs thud, I thmk that the people m the industn in the old Acts remain as they \Vere. The should ask thcn1f:elvos, ''·what is wrong "1Yiti1 Conuuittec has had a ~~,ooa ovportunity to usW'' ;;tndy the Bill, and I am pleased to acl:n(m­ l\1r. Muller: Are you inferring that the ledge what was said by the Leader of the fl:nrymcn of Qncenslancl are not doing their Opposition aml other nwmhc1·s from both job? sides of tho Ycry abk work of o:n· Chief Standards Officer, Mr. Coleman. I think the :nr. COLLIN§: The hon. member may prnise of hon. n1cn1bcrs js -we1l -warranted he inferring that, but I am not. hccause, like other officers of the deparlment, he is most efficient. You could search Au;,tralin lih. lliuUer: You said it. and. you would probably have difficult:;- in lUr. COLLINS: I did not and the hon. findmg a man who is more Jli'Ccisc and eon­ member cannot mal'e me say it citheT. The cise, which qualifications arc very desirable in hon. member said on a previous occasion an officer holding such fL position. Ec doe~ that it was better to let the cows sbn-e anc1 lay dmni a st:md3n1 of correctness himself. cell the feed because of the price that was I can only say, Rft8r realling his work and offering for it during the drought. goinf.; tltTough it >~·i,h him, that his standard of efliciency is of re yery high order. ]Jr. lUullen I did not say that at all. As I saicl, the main object of the DiU [, \(t 1Ur. COLLINS: The llon. member did consolidate the various Acts, an cl it clcnls wit \1 and he can read it in '' HansaTd.'' While the the most important things the primary pro· leaders in the industry take up that attitude clucer has to ileal \Yith and it seeks to protect Agr·icultuml Standar·ds Bill. [21 MARCH.] Agricultural StandaTds Bill. 1919

him and guard him ngainst people who will materials such as growth-regulating material take him down by selling him pest-destroyers -hormones-marking preparations and test­ that would not destroy pests or selling him ing reagents. One thing that strikes me as seeds that would Pot germinate or sellin(J' him being unique, somet;hing that I have never fertilisers that would not fertilise his "'land. encountered in any legislation before, is the In the main the whole of the Bill is definition of the word ''As.'' protective, and it will make it much easier for the department to police the Act and it liir. CoHins: Do you think it is all will make it easier for the people who come right 1 within the ambit of the Act to understand exactly what the position is. It reduces the lUr. NICKLlN: We will not offer any number of forms from 19 to 3, which is one objection to it and we will not move any blessing. mnenclment but I clo think it is unique to find tlwt wore] defined in Queensland legisla­ The primary producer has always clone a tion. very fine job in this country despite the adverso conditions that operate at times. We I shonlcl also like to commend the com­ know that the only thing that is regular as position of the board that is to be set up to far as primary production is concerned is the replace the various boards established under irregularity vf our seasons. 'vVe know that the repealed Acts. It will be a board of we cannot depend upon r-ain in any particular seven officers of the Departn1ent of Agri­ month and >Ye cm;not depend upon dry cultm~ and Stock who »·ill be an agricul­ ;veather at any particular time. Queensland tural chemist, n standards officer, an entomo­ 1s largely a land of very variable climatic logist, a parasitologist, a pathologist and conditions. That being so, we must and clo two Yeterinary surgeons. They are all men ~mdeav~ur to do all w~ can to help primary who, by their technical training, arc well mdustnes by the prov1sion of advisory and qualified to serye on such a board. I believe protective services, alHl there can be no more that in appointing these men the Minister has protective service in this department than built up a very capable and notable board that provided by the Agricultural Standards to administer this Yery important piece of BilL legislation. Mr. NICKLIN (Landsborough-Leader There is not much that can be said at of the Opposition) ( 4.11 p.m.) : On the this stage of the Bill, because as the Minis­ introductory stage I commended the principle ter said, it is more or less a Committee behind this Bill. After seeing the measme Bill. I might indicate that at the moment and realising that it consolidates and amends '~'e have no amendments we can suggest to :five Aets, all dealing with the requirements it because on our examination it covers all of primary producers and the standards of requi,-oments, and if there are any weak­ ~hose requirements, I can say that it is a big nesses in its pTovisions they will be found 1mprovement on the other multiple leYlw >Yill be called upon to use it later, to have the preparation or material At this stage I take the opportunity of testell und0r proper testing conditions by paying tribute to the present Attorney· of;iecrs of the Department of Agriculture General, Hon. 'vV. Power, who, during his anrl Stock under the conditions laid down in ocm:pnncy of the various ministCTial posi­ the l3ill. It \l'ill be of great help to every­ tions has consolidated a great deal of le(J'is­ body. lation and set a good example that is ~ow being followed by the Secretary for Agri· There is one provision that we noted with culture and Stock. interest nnd that is that the :Minister may, if he thinks fit, not give his consent to the I should like also to congratulate the Par­ publication of the result of the investigation. liammJtary Draftsman on the excellent job That too is a wise procedure, as it might he has done in drafting this Bill. He has cause a lot of unnecessary trouble. It is cut out a good deal of the verbiage we find left to the discretion of the Minister in other legislation, he has made it a simple >l·hether the results of the investigation Bill, clearly set out and easy to umlerstancl. should be published or not. We have no Looking at the measure itself, we find that quarrel with that. the majority of the definitions included in In this legislo tion we find the much­ the measures that are being repealed arc discussed averment clause, and the Minister reinserted in this Bill together with a number has made an improvement to the usual of new definitions that have been found neces­ version we find in legislation and I cannot sary because of the introduction of new raise any ob,jection to the averment clause 1920 ·Fauna Conservation Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Fattna Conservation Bill. in this Bill as it contains the words ''in the in respect of things that are recognised as absence of rebuttal thereof.'' It does not pests and will remain pests till they are make averment conclusive proof. entirely exterminated, if we ever reach that stage. 1\Ir. F. E. Roberts: It is sometimes necessary. I personally have not had very much experience of wild game, fowls and ducks; Mr. NICKLIN: It may be necessary in I have enjoyed shooting something only when some instances, but it is far wiser to take I wanted to eat it, I have never enjoyed the words out if you can and not make the shooting for pleasure. However, I do not averment conclusive proof. Under the Primary deny that many people are fond of shooting Producers' Organisation and Marketing Act as a sport; it is recognised as the sport of Amendment Act of last session a report to kings. At the same time, there is a great the Minister by an inspector appointed by desire to protect certain of our very rare him was made final proof that a board had species of fauna and we have set out in committed an offence. That is not desirable, this legislation those things that shall be nor do I think it necessary. It is better to protected. Whether there are other species have the averment clause as in this Bill, in of fauna that are very rare and may even­ which there is a qualifying phrase. tually become extinct, I am not sure. If There is the final clause dealing with there are, I am not personally aware of them. proclamations, orders in council and regula· In any case, we might do something about tions, which says that they must be laid that in the Committee stage. before Parliament. That is as it should My attention was drawn by the Leader of be in all legislation because we often find the Liberal Party to the fact that certain that regulations, and orders in council issued migratory birds that ne,· er breed in this under legislation can be very objectionable. country are protected by the close season that We objected to one this morning and we we have here, and he has saicl that as they h~d that opportunity because the Act pro­ never breed in this country we are merely vided that all regulations made under it fattening them so that they can go elsewhere should be laid on the table of the Rouse for where they are not protected. I mention scrutiny by members. The provision in this those two things as matters that can be Bill that that shall be done differs from the referred to in the Committee stage rather provision in the Main Roads Act, in that than at the present time. the Minister may increase heavily the fees chargeable under them without any reference The main object of the Bill is to protect to this Assembly. our fauna without making a gaol of the country or taking away more liberty than is That takes away from Parliament the necessary. I think, in order to protect birds right of keeping a check on the taxing and other fauna, the Minister needs to have powers of the Government. Fortunately, no a certain amount of power and to use that bad principle such as that is contained in power with discretion. I have endeavoured this legislation, and I congratulate the to clo that, because I have heard of cases in Minister in that respect. which power was misused, particularly in In conclusion, I should like to say that I respect of wild ducks in other States. believe that this is a very useful Bill. It Thousands of pounds worth of clamage to will be of great value to the a(J'ricultural grain was clone by wild ducks, but it was out industries of this State, and those :'esponsible of season and they could not be killed. All the for drawing it up are to be commended for birds of the State were flocking to that area, the clear and simple way in which they have a bird 's paradise. They could go to prepared it. the ricefields and pick the rice that was falling down in front of their beaks. I do Motion (Mr. Collins) agreed to. not think I could imagine anything more patatable to a wild duck than that grain. FAUNA CONSERVATION BILL. They were TUining the crops of many farmers. SECOND READING. Last year when the State was experiencing heavy floods, wildfowl were very numerous in Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Tablelands­ many places in Queenoland, and they wer•; Secretary for Agriculture and Stock) ( 4.22 doing considerable damage. Under our Act p.m.) : I move- the Minister had power in those circum­ '' That the Bill be now Tead a second stances, despite the fact that it was out of time." season, to allow certain nominated persons to I commend the Dill to hon. members as it take action to prevent damage to crops. The has been presented. There may be certain only way to do that, of course, was to destroy items in it that call for further explanation, the wildfowl. That was done. No special but that can be done in the Committee stage. praise is due to anybody for that action. 11 was simply common-sense use of the Minister 's This legislation follows largely the old power. You cannot lay down an arbitrary Fauna Protection Act, except that certain rule in this matter, because circumstances items that needed it have been tidied up. change and different decisions are necessary The fauna conservation officers have gone in different circumstances. Changes occur ~; t carefully through the legislation and have very short notice and someone has to have included certain safeguards that were thought the power to make a quick decision in order tc necessary to protect our native fauna. In prevent considerable damage to foodstnfl', addition, they have made some amendments and so on. Fnuna Gonservntion Bill. [21 MARCH.] Fnuna Conservation Bill. 1921

There was another point I took when look­ many there are. They are both of natural ing at the Act, as to the confiscation of interest and they are deserving of' the greatest firearms. 'l'here have been many cases In protection we can give them. which a person's firearms have been taken It may not be known to all that both the from him. That is provicleu in the Act, anu echidna and the platypus lay eggs that are it is containeu in the present Bill. 'l'hat really like the eggs of reptile.s. They :xre action has been taken in respect of persons hatched and the young are raised on nulk. found shooting on a sanctuary and so on and They are not fed with milk in the usual way the law allows the firearm to be taken. I in which mammals feed their young. Both believe that in some cases that section of tltc animals have milk glands and the milk oozes Act has been exerciseu a little too harshly. from the glands, tTickles down the fur and I may have offended myself in that regard, the young lap up the milk from th.e fur. because I have been guided more or less by Not only does the platypus young feed m that police reports when making a decision. In a way, from milk on the fur of the mother discussion on this matter l asked why should ihelf, but the mother can also discharge milk a person who has been fined by a magistrate while it is in the water and when its young for transgressing the law be tined again by is big enough to follow it, it can lap up the our taking from l:im a firearm that is milk in that way too and feed while it is probably worth ten tunes as much as the fine in motion. I know that both those animals imposed on him by the magistrate. J<'ircarms have a very great scientific interest and I sometimes cost a lot of monev. I haYe seen am glad to know that we recognise the guns that are valued at mon] than £100. 1 importance of including them with the koala have seen oth,T guns that are valued at £10 in a schedule of permanently protected fauna. only. I could not see the reason for the extra £90 but a person who knows firearms The platypus may not be as rare as \~e would say, ''It is a beautiful gun.'' I think think, because it is so alert that if there IS we should be a little less severe in regard the slightest disturbance anywhere near it to retaining firearms, particularly when the it will dive with lightning speed under the person conceTned lu,s been fined by a magis­ wate1· and go to its tunnel. It has also trate. 'rhere is a good reason, however, 1Yhy another tunnel that is further up the bank we should have po1Yer to do it in certain cases. and not submerged. These animals are It was explained to me that minOl's arc often really aquatic; they seldom visit the ~and. the ofienclcrs who are fonucl shooting on 'rhe echillna is a land-burrowing ammal. sanctuaries. The enthusiasm of youth impels There is a peculiarity about the platypus them to go and shoot and they uo not care that is worth mentioning. It is armed with whether it is a sanctuarv or not. They are a hollo1Y spur on the leg that is connected just ordinary boys. I like to see boys· with with a gland and it is used as a sort of dart spirit, but the law has to be. up!Jehl. You against its enemies. It is considered that a cannot have these lads up beforP the court, c1 t from this spur would cause poisoning, but you can take their guns from them, th ~ poison coming from the duct through the enm if you do return them later. Th:1t would spur. be a sufficient deterrent. That is one of the I 1.-as very fortunate a few. years ago to reasons why that provision has not been witness the actions of an echidna that was removed. ~When a magistrate deals with an endeavouring to CTOss a creek. At Cuclgera offender and fines him, it is perhaps a little thcl'c is a saltwater creek and one ttfter­ too much like double-banking to t1eprive tlw noon I saw an echidna enter the stream, offender of his gun. Consideration might Le apparently intending to swim to the other given to that aspect of the matter in tiH~ side. They are not powerful swimmers, J:mt administration of the Act. they do not sink, on account o~ the qmlls. The animal failed to reach my SJdc, and was lUr. DECKER (Sandgate) (4.30 p.m.): I taken over the bar and out to sea. It was commend the Minister for introducing the washed about in the surf and was more than Bill. No doubt we shall make some sug­ half an hour in the water before it was gestions for its improvement in Committee. ''~·a shed ashore a gain. After the gruelling It is beneficial to have a consolidated measure experience it suffered it shmvec1 no signs of relnting to the conselTation, propagation and fatigue but was determined to reach the protedion of our natural fauna. I am par­ other bank. It took a slow course np the ticularly pleased to see the schedule of bank and over the sandhill back to the spot permanently protected fauna, which includes where it first entered the water and made the koala, platypus and echidna. It may not another attempt. This time I was really be known to all hon. members that the platypus and the echidna are the only two to help it, but there was no need. As a mammals of their kind in the world and that result of its own efforts it rearhcd the other is something that should urge us to give these bank and disappeared into the timber nearby. animals absolute protection. Although they It was a wonderful example of endurance, and it inc1iratec1 that although a stream might do not appear to be similar or to have a relationship, they are in identical groups be flooded when echidnas enter it they would not mn much risk of dTOwning. They and have the same peculiarities of character. Although they are animals they also have the have a natural buoyancy and great powers distinct characteristics of birds and of of eadurance. reptiles. They are two of the wonders of I think it is a pity that we do not associate the world. I cannot say that they are rare the nu me ''Native Be:u '' with the koala. In in this State. There are quite a number of the olden clays our pioneers gave them local echidna but the shy nature of the platypus name~ that stuck to them, and these names prevents us from forming an estimate of how will persist, in spite of every effort, for many 1922 Fauna Conservation Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Fauna Conservation Bill. years to come. I feel that we should associ­ Squirrels can be reared in captivity. In ate the name ''Porcupine'' with the echidna my younger days we shot a :flying squirrel in order to retain the association wit;h our for observation purposes. On recovering the pioneer days. In the same way we should body, I found to my astonishment a baby associate the name ''Native Bear'' with the :flying squirrel on the mother's back. I took koala. It would be an excellent gesture in that baby away from the fur on the mother's memory of the pioneers who namecl these back and took it to camp-I was in camp animals in the early clays. for about four weeks away from civilisa­ tion. All we had to feed it on was con­ It was wise not to wait till these animals were nearly extinct before protecting them, densed milk. I tried to feed it forcibly as happened in regard to the koalas, which with diluted condensed milk and it :flourished were killed for their skins. on it. Before the month ended we had that little squirrel lapping up the condensed milk Millions were taken in the early days. itself. On returning to civilisation we found Then, when the koala was beginning to that it thrived on cow's milk diluted with become rare, we introL1ucec1 closed seasons water. It will feed on almost the same food against shooting. Later, an epidemic broke as an opossum around the house. Although out amongst them over the whole of Queens­ these squirrels are supposed to live on insects land and it rendered the koala family almost and so on, we found that this squirrel would extinct. We are now taking prompt action cat almost the same foOll as an opossum. by this Bill to protect that animal permanently. This animal tluived and took a liking to its euvironment ancl took up residence like I think we should take this opportunity of a tamed opossum. If there was a sugar placing on record our appreciation of Mr. basin about or a pudding anywhere near, Heid, of Lone Pine, near Brisbane. He has it would go and take its share. These are taken a particular interest in our native lovable animals and peculiar to Australia; bears. He has found from careful experi­ they are a novelty to everybody, the naturalist ment that the koala can be raised success­ particularly, and before they become rare fully in captivity if its food is m1derstood. we sl•ould consider their protection. I ask He has found that the koala has a rare the Minister to give conoicleration to includ­ selective diet normally but by the use of the ing the :flying squirrel in the list of perma­ correct balanced ration he can not onh- be nently protected animals. kept in captivity as a healthy animal" but At the same time I am pleased to say that can also be bred successfully under those ;ve h:;ve a list of declared pests and at a conditions. later stage suggestions might be forthcom­ We on this side feel that this list of ing with regard to an enlargement of that protected animals would not be complete list. Of course, we have the dingo, the fox, unless we took the :flying squirrel into con­ the hare, and the rabbit; and I think that we sideration. It may be said that we still could, with advantage, c1ming the Committee have plenty of :flying squirrels in our land, stages of the Bill seek an enlargement of that but we should not wait until the animal list. has almost reached the point of extinction I am pleased to say that we hold protec­ before giving it the protection it de~erves. tion over all our fauna and that nobody This anim_al is n_ot a nuisance in any way. can cuter into a reserve or sanctuary with­ Although Its fur IS valuable, it is only small. out authority. None but authorised persons ~Ve have several species of the flying squirrel may enter a sanctuary. m Queen_sland bu~ we_ are nearing a point ;vhere thrs pr?tectlon Is absolutely desirable Amongst our animals, and I speak particu­ 1f we are gomg to preserve the animal as larly of the kangaroo and the wallaby, we we_ should. What is the good of putting have those that are valuable assets to the ammals on the permanently protected list State if properly handled. Between 1945 and after they have become almost extinct~ If 1950 12,000,000 kangaroo and wallaby skins we_ have an o~portunity of preserving an were exported from Queensland ancl I think ammal before It becomes rare we should that export brought in something like do it. ' 20,000,000 dollars in return. I draw atten­ tion to the fact that we probably cannot The Minister might ask why we should continue year after year with such a terrific select one type of squirrel only for protection slaughter of such animals. We can, if the when we have so many types. I answer matter is ~1andled in the proper way, have t~at by suggesting that if we rrotect the a permanent revenue coming in from these bigger type we automatically protect the animals for many years. Like the native other varieties. bear, they suffer from epidemics. Kangaroos en Bribie Island-and they were plentiful­ Another is the sugar squirrel. It is prob­ \\Tre struck by an epidemic and dead kan­ ably more prolific in New South Wales than garous could be seen on the beaches, ou here. \Ve have never had these squirrPls to tracks, in gullies, under houses, and even in the same extent as New South Wales, but lavatories, where they had forced their way. they are found here. Then there is the As n result this animal is becoming rare pygmy squirrel that does not exceed a length down there and its numbers will have to be of ~ix inches. It is a marsupial and a very built up again. Bribie Island was not the active one at that. We know it does not only place that was. struck by the epidemic·. need protection because its small size ancl I think the time w1ll come when we could agility will ensure its preservation. probably take 1,000,000 kangaroo and Fauna Oonsm·vation Bill. [21 MARCH.] Fauna Oonse1·vation Bill. 1923 wallaby skins out of Queensland and main­ Mr. DECKER: I feel quite sure that the tain that number year after year hut I sug­ advisory committee I have suggested would gest that we cannot take 2,500,000 skins operate in a voluntary capacity. annually out of Australia without ruining the Mr. Collins: But would its recommenda­ industry, which is of benefit to the State. tions be costly to implement~ I know that the Minister has capable :3Ir. DECKER: Its recommendations officers and rangers all over the State and would almost certainly involve the expendi­ we could get particulars of where the kan­ ture of some money. It would then he a garoc is becoming rare and where he is matter for the Brisbane City Council and getting a nuisance. We could then establish the State Government to come to some agree­ areas where kangaroos might he shot. We ment about carrying out the recomme~dations, have to decide on what number we can afford and each body would have to bear 1ts share to kill. It is astounding to realise that we of the cost. Although the Government own can receive such huge revenue from these these lagoons, the council is a trustee for mammals; it is our duty to see that the them, and the result is that neither body will revenue is kept continuous by better protec­ take the responsibility of looking after them. tion against shooting. The first lagoon was recently almost dry and In Sandgate -we have a series of lagoons was full of rubbish, and nobody wo\.1ld clean known locally as the first, second, and third it out. In the interests of the whole of the lagoons. The Minister has received deputa­ State. it is time we went into the matter of tions from ornithologists, who have asked the making sanctuaries of these lagoons. The Government to reserve in perpetuity the first recommendations that might be submitted by and second lagoons as sanctuaries for water­ the advisory committee could be implemented fov.-1. I know, too, that he has been over a number of years. approached on a number of occasions from In conclusion, I take this opportunity of other directions to have those lagoons filled congratulating the Minister on the way he in and converted into a park, or subuivided has presented this Bill. I can assure him for business purposes. that any suggestions from this side of the I think Wf' have in this legislation a \rou­ House· will be made only in an endeavour to derful opportunity of setting up an advisory help him. committee to investigate what should he done ·with these lagoons. It is imperative, of lUr. NICHOLSON (Murrumba) ( 4.55 course, tlwt some part of the bgoons must be p.m.): I commend the Minister for bringing resumed for purposes of traffic safety, but clown this Bill. I stated on the introductory we desire to preserve what is left of them stage that I supported it, as I shall always permanently for the bird life that is using support anything that gives greater protec­ them. The advisory committee I have sug­ tion to our native fauna. gested we uld have to be very representative. At the outset I should like to clear up a In the first place, Brisbane's town planner matter I mentioned earlier. I made a state­ would be interested in planning some improve­ ment that the opossum was responsible for ments in the area. It would be necessary, the almost complete extermination of native too, to have an engineer on the committee, bird life in New Zealand. Since that time as well as representatives of the Department several people have asked me how the of Agricultltown of Sandgate. I offer my services in that direction, because lUr. NICHOL,SON: As most hon. mem­ I have a good idea of the general opinion bers know, the opossum is a berry-eater and that is held by the people, particularly he feeds on the same berries as the birds. regarding the first lagoon. If the Minister H owe> er, he usually eats the berries before agreed to accept the recommendations of the they are ripe, and, of course, birds do not committee, he could make a reserve there for touch berries until they are ripe. After con­ waterfowl. Legislation could he introduced stant observation of their respective halJits, to have the lagoons registered as perpetual it was decided that that was one of the sanctuaries. causes of the extermination of the birds. The second lagoon, which is about 20 Another cause was mentioned by the hon. chains from the first lagoon, contains a -very member for Burancla. The opossum is a large expense of water, and the committee notorious robber of bird eggs. He is worse might recommend the building of an island in than the little boy of long ago. If them is the cedre of it, where the birds could estab­ nothing else to eat during the nesting lish resting and breeding places for them­ season, the opossum robs the nests. Of the selves. In my opinion, the second lagoon many native birds in New Zealand and many could be made one of the State's finest imported birds that later became acclimatised, sanctuaries. there are practically none now. The only birds that can be seen are the sparrow and The other lagoon is on the Bald Hills Road other birds that live round the cities and and at present is almost entirely covered with exist on scraps and worms from the gardens. reeds. The committee could investigate its I press for a greater policing of the Act. possibilities, and then submit a crystallised \Ve have had many Bills brought down for plan covering the three lagoons. the purpose or protecting fauna, but unfor­ Mr. Collins: Would there be any cost tunately those Acts have been more or less associated with it? ineffective or they have become ineffective Fauna Conservation Bill. [ASSE1VIBLY.] Questions. because of the large territory covered, and the small number of inspectors or honorary protectors available. I :mention .as an example Bribie Island, a protected area of 60 square miles. I do not know whether there are any honorary protectors on the island. There is one police officer who by virtue of the fact that he is a police officer is an officer under this Act also. It is a sparsely populated area with two main settle­ ments, one on the surf side and the other on the channel side. Those settlements stretch for about three miles. You can realise that the island is not closely settled. It is R difficult job for one police officer to police the whole of that area effectively. Another difficulty is the absence of roads or tracks. Most of the marauders, as I shall call them, stay away from the few roads there are and go into the bush, although not too far into the bt,sh. Some of them operate round the edge.3 of the Bribie Passage and that brings me to another point. I have not pad the opportunity of inspecting a map to ascertain whether the waters of the Bribie Passage are included with Bribie Island in the pro­ tected area. If not, I suggest that it should be, because the waters abound with duck, black swan, and other protected birds. Per­ sons interested in fishing might be appointed as honorary protectors under the Bill. There is a great stretch of water from Toorbul Point to Caloundra and it would be an excellent idea if people interested in fishing, like the hon. member for '.8andgate for instance, who go to these waters, were made honorary protectors under the Bill. There are also honorary fishery inspectors and they too could be made honorary protectors under this measure. They could hold the dual posi­ tion. Consideration should be given not only to giving honorary inspectors greater powers but also to increasing their number. Their powen have been altered somewhat and I shall make mention of that at the Committee stage. The Minister said that when a magistrate imposed a fine on a person founr1 illegally on a sanctuary the action of the department in impounding the firearm was tantamount to an additional penalty for the same offence. I suggest that if the magistrate is of the opinion that the offence is a serious one he may impose a fine and direct that the fire­ arm should be confiscated but if it is only an ordinary offence he might impose a fine and recommend that the firearms be returned to the offender. I should like to know from the Minister whether there is any protection 'against the carrying of firearms on Sundays. It has been brought under my notice that youths visit Bribie Island allegedly on fishing excursions at week-ends and smuggle .22 rifles onto the island in their fishing gear. They then go into )the bush and iJllay havoc with the native fauna. That is all I propose to say at this stage and I reserve any further comment I desire to make about honorary protectors until we reach the Committee stage. Motion (Mr. Collins) agreed to. The House adjourned at 5.8 p.m.