Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 6 OCTOBER 1964

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions (6 OCTOBER] Questions 533

TUESDAY, 6 OCTOBER, 1964 on the one day? If so, is he prepared to amend the syllabus to provide that each subject shall be allotted one half-day? Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair Answers:- at 11 a.m. (1) "Yes." MINES REGULATION ACI AMEND­ (2) "No determination has been made MENT BILL regarding future examination time tables." Assent reported by Mr. Speaker. TRUCK WORK ON BOWEN-COLLINSVILLE AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT ROAD CONSTRUCTION.-Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- PUBLIC ACCOUNTS Mr. SPEAKER announced the receipt ( 1) Has the Main Roads Department from the Auditor-General of his report on hired trucks and drivers from the Bowen the public accounts of the State for the year Shire Council on a day labour basis for 1963-64. work on the Bowen-Collinsville Road, and Ordered to be printed. if so, for what reason? (2) Was any endeavour made to recruit QUESTIONS private owner-drivers for this work? DERAILMENTS OF COAL HOPPERS, MoURA­ GLADSTONE RAILWAY LINE.-Mr. Thackeray, Answers:- pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for ( 1) 'The Bowen Shire Council is the Transport,- constructing authority and uses its own (1) How many coal hoppers have been trucks on day labour works." derailed during the months of June July (2) "Yes. Two owner-driver water August and September, 1964, b~twee~ Moura and Gladstone? trucks are consistently employed, and additional owner-drivers are engaged when (2) How many coal hoppers have been necessary." damaged beyond repair during each of these months? BEEF CATTLE ROADS, MOUNT SURPRISE.­ (3) How many tons of coal have been Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to notice, asked lost on account of these derailments? The Minister for Mines,-- ( 4) What is the cost of these derail­ In view of the Treasurer's statement in ments to his Department? the debate on Supply on August 25 con­ cerning transport from Cairns to Mount (5) As these derailments have been Surprise,- happening frequently, can he say what has been the cause? ( 1) When will the Mount Surprise­ Answers:- Georgetown section be completed? (1) "Sixty-seven:· (2) When will the Hann Highway­ Mount Surprise section be completed? (2) "None." (3) "Five hundred and sixty-one." Answers:- (4) "Not yet available." In view of the Honourable Member's state­ ment in this House on September 3, 1963, (5) "These derailments are believed to and I quote "This brings me to beef cattle be . due to a number of causes, all of roads. Irrespective of how much publicity which are being enquired into." is given to these roads, they will do nothing to increase the number of cattle in the cattle EXAMINATION TIME TABLES FOR TRADE country", I am surprised that he bothers to AP:RENTICES.-Mr. Sherrington, pursuant to show any interest in the beef roads scheme notice, asked The Minister for Education,- at all. However, to answer his Questions- ( 1) Does the proposed amended syllabus ( 1) "The specified date for completion concerning trade apprentices, provide for of Georgetown-Mount Surprise section is daytime examinations? September 1965." (2) Does this allow that in certain (2) Completion of the section from instances candidates for examination will Mount Surprise to the Kennedy Highway is be required to sit for up to three subjects aimed at for June 1966." 19 534 Papers [ASSEMBLY} Answers to Questions

EXPENDITURE ON MACHINERY, BRISBANE FORM OF QUESTION ABATTOIR.-Mr. Newton asked The Minister for Primary Industries,- Mr. BENNETT (South Brisbane) having given notice of a question- ( 1) What was the amount expended in connection with the replacement or Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member installation of new machinerv at the will have to re-draft his question. Brisbane Abattoir in each financial year from 1957-1958 to 1963-1964? Mr. BENNETT: There is some evidence of (2) What types of machinery were that. covered by this expenditure?-(Originally asked on September 24.) Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The question will be completely disallowed if the hon. Answer:- member passes remarks. "Further to my reply on Thursday, September 24, 1964, I now lay on the Table of the House tabulated statements ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS containing the information requested." Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (11.23 a.m.): Mr. Papers.-Whereupon Mr. Row laid upon Speaker, I rise to speak to order under Stand­ the Table of the House the statements ing Order No. 115. You have been most referred to. consistent-! say this deliberately-in your rulings under Standing Order No. 69 on questions asked by hon. members on this PAPERS side of the House. I wish now to draw your attention to the answer given this morning The following papers were laid on the by the Minister acting for the Minister for table, and ordered to be printed:- Mines to a question asked by the hon. mem­ Reports- ber for Tablelands. Nominal Defendant (Queensland) for Standing Order No. 70 states that in the year 1963-64. answering a question a member shall not President of the Industrial Court for the debate the matter to which the question year 1963-64. refers. The question asked by the hon. Director-General, Queensland Tourist member for Tablelands was a simple one, Services for the year 1963-64. and in my opinion the preamble to the answer breached Standing Order No. 70. Chief Safety Engineer, Chief Inspector of Machinery and Scaffolding and I hope that in future, when dealing with Wei<>hts and Measures for the year answers to questions, you will be just as 1963-64. consistent as you are when ruling on ques­ The following papers were laid on the tions asked of Ministers. I should like your table:- ruling on the particular answer to which I Proclamation under- have referred. The State Development and Public Works Organisation Acts, 1938 to Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I think I have 1958, The Public Works Land already made it amply clear that unfortu­ Resumption Acts, 1906 to 1955, and nately I have no control over answers pre­ The Petroleum Acts, 1923 to 1962. pared by Ministers. It is not my preroga­ Orders in Council under- tive to peruse them. If answers are given in a certain form, I think that is entirely The Harbours Acts, 1955 to 1964. up to the Minister concerned. However, The Racing and Betting Acts, 1954 to let me say also that, in answering questions, 1963. it is the responsibility of Ministers, just as it The Sewerage, Water Supply and Gas­ b the responsibility of other hon. members, fitting Acts, 1949 to 1960. to maintain decorum. If questions are framed in the correct way, I think the answers should The State Enterprises Repeal and "The also be framed in a like manner. Under Secretary, Department of Labour and Industry" Corporation Act of 1931. Mr. LLOYD: There is one further point that I should like to raise in regard to the The Ci'v of Brisbane Market Acts, 1960 rnle. When hon. members give notice of to 1962. questions that are obviously out of order, The Fauna Conservation Act of 1952. they are excised from the reports of pro­ ceedings of Parliament. When the reply of a The Stock Acts, 1915 to 1960. Minister to a question is obviously out of The Explosives Acts, 1952 to 1963. order, I submit that it, too, should be excised Regulations under The Banana Industry from the reports of proceedings of this. Protection Acts, 1929 to 1937. House. Death of Mr. G. H. Marriott [6 OcronER] Death of Mr. G. H. Marriott 535

DEATH OF MR. G. H. MARRIOTT the community and of the support he gave to efforts directed towards the welfare of MOTION OF CONDOLENCE the district in which he lived. He gave very Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough­ fine service to this State and very sincere Premier) (11.26 a.m.), by leave, without service in community work. He was admired notice: I move- for those qualities by all who can:e. in con­ tact with him and had the prlV!]ege of " l. That this House desires to place on knowing him. record its appreciation of the services ren­ dered to this State by the late George On behalf of the Government of this State Henry Marriott, Esquire, a former member I express deepest sympathy for t~e relatives of the Parliament of Queensland. of the late George Marriott and reiterate that "2. That Mr. Speaker be requested to he aave excellent service to the State as a convey to the relatives of the deceased me~ber of this Parliament during the time gentleman the above resolution, together he represented the electorate of Bulimba. with an expression of the sympathy and ;arrow of the members of the Parliament Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ of Queensland in the loss they have Leader of the Opposition) (11.31 a.m.): On sustained.'' behalf of the Opposition, I join with the Premier in recording in the pages of move this motion with a great deal of '·Hansard" our sympathy at the loss sus­ regret, because I am one of the few members tained by the relatives and friends of the late of this House who was also a member during Mr. Marriott. I do not know that I can the period that the late George Marriott was usefully add anything to what the Premier has a member of the Parliament of Queensland. said because I think he has given a very I believe that all those who knew him accurate portrayal of the late gentleman's respected him for his sincerity and for the characteristics. way in which he carried out his duties as a member of Parliament. It is true that he was a man who was very quiet in his demeanour. He held very strong The late George Marriott, who, by the way, convictions and identified himself vt:ry died at the ripe old age of 78 years, was strongly with various aspects of commumty elected to the 28th Parliament as the repre­ life. His death was not altogether Uf.lex­ sentative for the Bulimba electorate at the pected. After the loss of his wife some little general election on 2 April, 1938, and served time ago, there was a sudden marked until 28 April, 1950, a period of 12 years. deterioration in his health and, because of It is inevitable that, one by one, the ranks his relatively advanced years-he was 78 of the retired parliamentarians of this State years of age-I do not think that his death are thinning with the passing of the years, was altogether unexpected. and from time to time we have the sad duty of recording a message of appreciation of the Mr Marriott served in the A.L.P. for services of those gentlemen to the State and quite ·a while and because of his very intense conveying a message of condolence to their convictions in regard to a movement at the relatives. Most of us who knew the late time associated with a later ally of ours, George Marriott remember him as a quiet, namely, the U.S.S:.R., he joint:d in a car_n­ somewhat reserved, slow-spoken man, who paign for the export of sheepskms to _Russi~. always sat in the right-hand rear corner of As a result of his identification WitJ:i this the Chamber, as it was then. He did not particular group he fell into conflict ~1th the sp~ak in the House very frequently; but, policy of the Labour Party at that time and when he did. he spoke with fluent earnestness suffered the penalty of being expelled from in support of the principles and ideals that he the party because of his refusal to disassociate espoused and in which he believed sincerely. He was constant in his attendance in this himself from the group. Chamber, being absent from his place only Steps of this kind are not taken lightly rarely, and he gave great service to the by any major political party because, when electors whom he represented. That is indi­ one is associated with a party over a long cated, I think, by the fact that he enjoyed period of time friendships develop and th_e their support for so long. sense of loyalty in all political members IS He was a man who had strong convictions, such that they will endeavour to persuade and he had the courage of his convictions. a person to apologise or amend his views to He served his State and his constituents to accord with the policy of the party to the very best of his ability. In addition to which he is attached. Mr. Marriort felt so the service that he gave to the State and strongly on this matter that he refused ~o his constituents as a member of Parliament, do that, but a measure of the esteem m he had a fine record of community service in which he was held because of his convictions the area from which he came. He was a was that despite his divorcement from the foundation councillor of the old Balmoral A.L.P. he was able to win the seat as an Shire Council before the advent of Greater Independent and to be re-elected on the Brisbane, a foundation member of the same basis at subsequent elections. Bulimba Kindergarten Committee, and, for several years, treasurer of the Cannon Hill He took part in debates in this House School of Art~. That is an examnle of the regularly, concentrating his activities mainly zealous work he carried out for the good of on industrial matters of which he was well 536 Death of Mr. G. H. Marriott [ASSEMBLY] Death of Mr. G. H. Marriott

qualified to speak because of his long asso­ He stayed in this House from 1942 until ciation, in an executive capacity, with a large 1950, when he was the victim of a squeeze industrial organisation in this State. between the Liberal Party and the A.L.P., coupled with the tremendous swing to the For the things that he did in this House, Liberal Party at that election, and he was for the contributions he made, for the esteem narrowly defeated in that year. in which he was obviously held by the people in this community, we in this Parliament It is rather ironical for us to consider that must record our appreciation of those events had George Marriott been a member of the and qualities and express our sense of loss to A.LP. today and had he held the firm and his relatives. sincere convictions that he held when he decided to leave the party, he would be On behalf of the Opposition I regretfully hailed as a hero in the A.L.P., because with record in the pages of "Hansard" sincere the A.L.P. the political wheel has turned; sorrow at the passmg of one who served this those who were popular in those days are Parliament and the State with distinction. unpopular today, and those who were unpopular in those days are now popular. Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (11.35 But that is the political game all over. a.m.): I want to associate myself very sin­ cerely with the sentiments expressed by the When I came into this House, more or Premier and the Leader of the Opposition, less as a human pariah dog-or treated as sentiments which unfortunately are occasioned such-I think there were at that time three by the death of the late George Marriott. members of the A.L.P. who were game to be seen speaking to me. Many spoke to me I am not going to detail what I was up but they would make certain that no-one against when I came into this Parlia­ was watching them when they did. As a ment in 1944. With the indirect but matter of fact, I used to have a little bit very valuable assistance of the present of fun with some of them. When I met them hon. member for Burdekin I committed in the corridors or on the stairs I would say, the unpardonable sin in the eyes of a "Quick, say 'good day' to me before some­ lot of political party fanatics in that I one sees you." won a seat that that party considered, by some divine right or other, as belonging to George Marriott was put into a room with them. So that when I came into this Par­ me, or I was put into a room with George liament I felt that the atmosphere-to put it Marriott, in a corner of the corridors down­ lightly-was indeed very strained. Seeing stairs. It was the first time I had ever met that this is a motion of condolence I will not him. He was a political godfather to me go any further than that. and a tower of strength in my first troublous years in this House. He taught me all the Among those who also were in the posi­ tricks; he took me under his wing. In his tion of being personally and politically kindly, homely way he said, "I do not know untouchable was the late George Marriott. what you think about matters, but you are Be had been a member of the A.L.P. and here and it is my job to see that you get the trade-union movement since early boy­ off at least to a reasonably good start." hood. As a matter of fact he played a very prominent part in the establishment of the If I were to live to 100 I would never be trade-union movement as we know it in able to completely repay George Marriott Queensland today. At one time he was on for the many little kindnesses he showed me the Board of Control of the Trades and in my first turbulent years as a member of Labour Council. He was even a member of this Parliament. It is true, as the Premier the Q.C.E., the controlling body of the said, that he was not numbered among the A.L.P. As has been mentioned, he was the great orators that this Parliament has pro­ A.L.P. member for Bulimba from 1938 until, duced, but every time he spoke he did so I think, 1942, when, because of his sincerely­ with a simple, honest sincerity that carried held convictions, he decided to leave the his message far more eloquently, and far !?arty. He was never expelled; he was told more convincingly, than could some of the be should either come in or go out. If he great orators. The very basis of his character .::ame in he had to abide by some nebulous \Vas simplicity, sincerity and honesty. ruling given by the Federal Executive of the A.L.P. I also had considerable associations with him because, as the Premier said, he was Mr. Walsh interjected. interested in many community activities. I should say that his particular hobby-if it Mr. AIKENS: I thank the hon. member may be called such-was the child-minding for Bundaberg, who himself was then a very centre that he and a few others had estab­ prominent member of the A.L.P. Because of li~hed at Bulimba. Whilst a member of this the late George Marriott's sincere convictions Parliament I was also for a time a member on this particular point he refused to go into of the Townsville City Council, and the party the Caucus room but remained, right to the t0 which I belonged was controlling the end of his days, just as strong and sincere destinies of that city. When we decided to a Labour man as he ever was although he establish a child-minding centre I was deputed refused to remain in the ranks of the A.L.P. to make some inquiries as to how these Death of Mr. G. H. Marriott [6 OcroBER] Supply 537

centres were conducted in Brisbane, and I SUPPLY frequently visited many child-minding centres, including the one at Bulimba. The child­ COMMITTEE-FINANCIAL STATEMENT­ RESUMPTION OF DEBATE minding centre that we establ,shed at Towns­ ville is mainly the result of the conversations (Mr. Campbell, Aspley, in the chair) I had with the late George Marriott on the Debate resumed from 24 September (see matter. p. 532) on Mr. Hiley's motion- "That there be granted to Her Majesty, I suppose it is one of the unfortunate facets for the service of the year 1964-65, a of human nature that when people are not sum not exceeding £1,716 to defray the continually thrown together-as we were salary of Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency when we were both in Parliament-there is the Governor." a tendency to lose touch and drift apart. Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Although I kept in touch with George Leader of the Opposition) (11.45 a.m.): Marriott for several years after he was unfor­ Before dealing with an examination of the tunately defeated in 1950, I did lose touch Budget proper, I should like t<;> dea~ wi,h with him. I think I should pay a compliment one or two minor matters; mmor m the t0 the Minister for Primary Industries because sense that they do not affect the economy of v;he? I came to Brisbane for the opening the State as a whole. I feel that they could sessron of this Parliament in August the more appropriately be dealt with at this Minister told me that he had received a stage. message that George Marriott was in a Hon. members may recall that during the nursing home in a Brisbane suburb-! think Address-in-Reply debate the hon. m_ember it was Coorparoo-and that he would be for Greenslopes seized the opportumty of only too happy to make his car and chauffeur dealing with a matter related to the Lowood available to drive me out so that I could see hospital. I preface what I have to say by George Marriott. mentionino- that I think it would be a retro­ grade step"' if hon. members in th~s Assembly I thank the Minister for Primary Industries were denied the privilege that 1s accor~ed for letting me know that George was there them under the Standing Orders of bemg and for )Jroviding facilities for me to visit free from action outside this House when, him. I went out and spent some time with in the discharae of their public duties they raise matters "'that could link them with George and we talked over old happenings. litigation if the same things were said out­ Although he was then failing in health, as side; provided always, of cour_se, t~at the the Leader of the Opposition said, neverthe­ intention behind the deliberatwns m the less he looked as if he would live for some Chamber are in the public interest _and for years. I promised that I would visit him the public good. If that protectwn was regularly and I sincerely meant to keep that not afforded hon. members, we would be promise. A few mornings later I was very denied from time to time the opportunity of distressed to receive a ring at Marr's guest­ dealing with matters of great public moment. house, where I stay-I have never stayed at I wish to remind the Chamber, and have the Lodge for reasons which I have explained recorded in "Hansard", that on that occasion, t0 this House very lucidly from time to time namely 15 September, the hon. mem)Jer for -from his daughter, who told me that her Greenslopes said, amongst other thmgs- father had passed away. I expressed my sincere condolences and promised to do what "I do not in any way wish to make this political or to snipe at the Australian I could if there was any help or assistance I Labour Party but the heading of the could render. article is 'Ho'spitals Lip Service' and it reads, 'Lowood delegate, Mr. WalteTs, told In the passing of George Marriott I person­ the conference that the present Govern­ ally lost a very good and firm friend. He ment was only paying lip-service to the was one of the old type of Labour men; one free hospitals scheme in Queensland', and of the type that, unfortunately, is passing so on. Mr. Waiters went on to say that away; one of the type that apparently does this Government was doing nothing about not seem to be catered for in the A.L.P. free hospitals in the area he represented. today. He played his part nobly and well I want to throw that charge back in Mr. in building the trade-union movement and the Waiters's teeth because yesterday I had A.L.P. into what it is today. I do not know a phone call from a lady who was the whether or not they sincerely regret his matron of a private hospital in Lowood passing; that is a matter for them and their in 1955 and 1956. It is anybody's guess who was the owner of the premi~es! It consciences. I at least sincerely regret his was none other than Mr. Waiters himself. passing. That is why I associate myself with An approach was made to the then Labour the sentiments expressed by the Premier and Government to have this private hospital the Leader of the Opposition. revert to a cottage hospital. The request was turned down. I will mention the Motion (Mr. Nicklin) agreed to, hon. matron's name because she has given me members standing in silence. permission to do so. She is well known 538 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Sppply

to me and was wdl known to the late "2. Sister Deighton (not Matron) from Dr. Noble after he went to Cleveland in whom Hooper obtained his information the .1930's-Matron Deighton. She leased made a sudden departure from Lowood. these premises from 1V1r. Waiters. Mr. Her departure was planned to take place Waiters said that he did not want them under the cover of darkness-however, she to continue: as a hospital. He said he would was intercepted. rather turn the premises into flats than "3. Sister Deighton, at the time of her have them as a hospital, either private departure, had incurred an indebtedness or public. to the extent of £415 lls. 8d. for rent due "I say this only for the benefit of the on the said premises. She is currently Leader of the: Opposition. I am sure employed by the Main Roads Department he would not want these false claims put in Brisbane. before him by a member who attended his "4. Sister Deighton rented the said hospi­ conference. This is factual. I challenge tal property by way of lease on a nominal any hon. member to ask the: Minister for weekly rental of £3 1Os. Od. The hospital Health a question as to whether rep­ was fully furnished and partly equipped resentations from Lowood were made in by Mr. John S. Waiters and included living the time: of the Hon. W. M. Moore, and quarters for Sister Deighton and her two whether they were turned down because children. they did not want a small hospital there. This is the same gentleman who has con­ "5. Sister Deighton did not inform demned this Government because we have Hooper truthfully regarding the reasons not instituted a cottage hospital. WhJe for her departure when she claimed she she was in Lowood, Matron Deighton was averaging only two patients per month. averaged two patients a month. She lost "6. After Sister Deighton's departure, she £1,500 on her business efforts there. refused to transfer the hospital licence and "'Opposition Members interjected. held out for excessive consideration. Her attitude considerably delayed the re-open­ "Mr. HOOPER: She is telling the truth. ing of the hospital. I challenge hon. members who are so loud "7. Eventually, Mr. John S. Waiters was in their interjections to do something about able to re-open the hospital under the it. Then we will see what Matron control of a Sister O'Connell and in order Deighton will do about it. She will stand that Sister O'Connell be given every assis­ up to it. If Mr. Waiters has been pulling tance, Mr. \V alters refrained from accept­ the wool over the eyes of the A.L.P. he ing rent for a period of six months. is certainly not pulling it over the eyes of the people in Lowood. They are "8. A proposal to convert the Lowood absolutely ashamed of what he has done Private Hospital to a cottage type hospital by trying to make political capital out of was never made. An attempt to convert the what he himself was opposed to. He stated existing hospital to a community hospital quite clearly at that time that he would was made. Apparently, Hooper, due to his rather see those premises converted into lack of intelligence, does not understand flats than used as a hospital. The reason the distinction. the: A.L.P. did not institute a cottage "9. Owing to insufficient public support. hospital system was that they never the proposed Community Hospital never believed in it. It was against their policy. became a reality. The monies so sub­ Mr. Waiters, who was a delegate at one scribed were offered to Mr. John S. Waiters of their recent conferences, has really tried to pull the wool over their eyes. Matron in lieu of loss of rent. He declined the Deighton asked that these facts be aired offer and suggested the amount held be in the House. I congratulate her for donated to the Lowood Branch of the doing so and for her stand in this matter. Q.C.W.A. and that organisation was In this way a few home truths can be extremely grateful to receive it. put before the members of the Opposition "10. Ultimately, due to lack of adequate who were so one-eyed as to accept thi~ finance, the hospital closed and eventually gentleman when he was opposed to--" was converted into flats. The hon. member's time then expired. "11. I further point out that as the town of Lowood has been without the services As the hon. member for Greenslopes of a permanent medical practitioner for invited us to lay a few home truths before nine months an approach was made by the this Assembly, I now quote some relevant Lowood Branch of the A.L.P. to the State extracts from a letter that I received from Denartment of Health for assistance. The Mr. J. W. Waiters, the person referred to. rep1y from that Department contained the He states- information that the present Government "1. I have never at any time held any could not meet the requirements of the financial interest in the Lowood Private Public Hospitals in Queensland for Medical Hospital. The hospital premises are owned Officers and therefore could not assist us by Mr. John Samuel Waiters, Church but suggested we approach the Australian Street, Lowood (previously a Liberal sup­ Medical Association (Q'land Branch), porter, now determined to support us). Kelvin Grove, Brisbane." Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 539

I think it only fair to say these things Mr. McGrath continued- because they refute allegations made against "Paragraph 2. Whilst it is a fact that a person well known in Lowood in an attack the Keith Hollands Shipping Company will made under the privilege of a parliamentary have two vessels based on Cairns, it has speech to which the person concerned has not yet to be proved if the number of services the opportunity to reply. The alleged facts will be doubled. You mention that a new ventilated by the hon. member for Green­ and regular service will be provided to slopes are palpably untrue and were made. points such as Cooktown, Portland Roads, I suggest, for the purpose of attracting some Marina Plains and Red Island Point. odium to Mr. Waiters. I want to indicate and have permanently recorded my belief "Cooktown. We have provided a that attacks of this kind should not be made, 4-weekly service from Brisbane to Cook­ and I regret very much indeed that the hon. town with transhipment at Cairns. Because member, either unwittingly or premeditatedly, of lack of water in Cooktown Harbour all saw fit to launch an attack with what now cargo shipped from Brisbane and/or appears to be not a bomb but a very damp Townsville was transhipped at Cairns at squib. a loss on each ton. Hayles Limited have provided a twice per week service from There has been considerable discussion Cairns to Cooktown, whilst in addition here of the proposed shipping service to there is a regular road transport service. Thursday Island and the Gulf ports. The hon. member for Tablelands has had quite a "Portland Roads. Has been serviced by lot to say on this matter, and in this debate 'Waiben' once every four weeks and by he will amplify considerably some of the the 'VFC2' operating out of Cairns to general remarks that I have to make. Weipa fortnightly. For the information of hon. members I "Marina Plains has been catered for should like to refresh their memories 'by twice per month by the 'VFC2' and as pointing out that on 9 September I asked the required by the 'Melita' (Bert Cummings). Premier whether he would agree to have an We would point out that the 'Katoora', examination made of the general position of because of her draft, will not be able to providing for the sea transport of goods in service this point and we doubt if the the areas affected-the Gulf ports and Thurs­ 'Maluka' will be able to do so either-both day Island-and that the Premier, in quite a roadsteads can only be serviced by very long reply, declined to accede to my request. shallow drafted craft. He stated that the fears were completely "For your information we enclose a page ?rotrndless, an~, because of the apparent from the 'Torres News' which you will Importance to himself and to his Government notice carries an advertisement relating to of this matter, he replied at greater lenoth the service provided by the 'VFC2'. than is customary. "' His reply claimed very great prominence in "Paragraph 4. Your statement 'On the t~e newspapers, and, following its publica­ West Coast, the points regularly serviced tion, I received a letter from a director of by the old Company were Normanton, the company concerned. It is a copy of a Burketown and Mornington Island, the ser­ letter forwarded to the Premier after the vice approximating four visits per year.' It statement that he made on behalf of the is quite apparent that you have been misled Government in this Chamber, and this is what by your advisers as under the term of our Mr. McGrath had to say- contract we have been servicing the three "Dear Mr. Nicklin, points mentioned twelve times per year or every four weeks (the contract actually "Re Shipping Service to Cape York, specified not less than ten trips). One Thursday Island and Gulf Areas service a year has been omitted and this "In connection with the above subject and during the wet season to permit the Gulf a question asked of your good self in the vessel to be surveyed. House this morning, we have been given to understand that the attached represents the "We feel that grave injustice has been actual text of your reply." done our Company for the statement to be made that the new service will provide Attached to the letter was a copy of the reply a twice a week call as against once a that the Premier gave in the House. He quarter. went on to say- "Now, Sir, we know you to be an honest "In addition to the ports of Normanton, and honourable gentleman, one who would Burketown and Mornington Island we have not deliberately mishandle facts, and we serviced Weipa, Aurukun, the Mit~hell and are therefore taking the liberty of drawing Edward Rivers as and when required and your attention to some glaring inaccuracies Karumba. in your reply. "Mornington Island. As for the Govern­ "To keep our reply concise, we will deal ment having steps in mind that will ensure with your reply paragraph by paragraph." a far greater frequency of service at no I shall not take up the time of the Committee added cost to the Mission, we would agree by reading the paragraphs of the Premier's to the possibility with the qualification that reply; they can be found in the "Hansard" there must be some considerable cost to for that particular day. the Government by way of extra transport 540 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

costs. Incidentally, we delivered to Morn­ I think it is time that a protest was made ington Island direct as an additional service at this indifference on the part of the -it was not included in our contract. Government in simply shuffling off people who have provided a service to the State. "Sir, we do feel that the criticism in The Premier said premeditatedly that the paragraph 8, viz. 'There are no grounds only persons concerned were those who had for fear except by those interests who will a self-interest-namely, the shipping line lose their protected and privileged position' concerned. Why should they not have a is rather unfair. We presume the statement self-interest when they have hundreds of refers to this Company whereas the parties thousands tied up in a service that they have mainly concerned are the merchants and been operating for about 80 years, employ­ consignees in the areas which will be ing Queensland personnel and using funds affected. provided very largely by Queensland share­ holders? Why should they not be concerned "Finally we would respectfully challenge about this matter? The Government does the correctness of the last sentence 'Some not seem to be at all concerned about giving areas will now receive a transport service it away, virtually to a southern combine, who previously had no transport service namely, Thomas Nationwide Transport, which at all'. is the real owner of the Hollands shipping "Reverting to Thursday Island, we have service, to provide an inferior service to the provided a four-weekly service all the year areas concerned. round. In this trade where the regular Despite the responsibility of the Govern­ vessel has been withdrawn for overhaul ment in this matter it seems to me that they a substitute vessel has always been have not planned this operation as well as provided. they should because, in addition to the "On our present bookings there is letter which I have just read, I am in irrefutable evidence merchants and other receipt of a further letter, dated 17th consignees are stocking up." September, which is subsequent to the other one and which contained a copy of Before dealing with a later letter from Mr. a letter, under date 16th September, sent M~Grath on this subject, I should like to by John Burke Ltd. to the Chairman of pomt out that on the occasion of the the Carpentaria Shire Council, Normanton, ~.ecoJ?-d-l~~t tri~ to Thursday Island by the and the Chairman of the Burke Shire Wmben , I thmk for the first time for very Council, Burketown, which reads as follows- many years the company was unable to "Re Shipping Service to Gulf of Carpentaria accept _all t~e cargo offering because of the paruc buymg by people in the North who Ports were anticipating an inability on the part of "As you are aware, the 'Waiben's' last the_ new contractor to provide a service as sailing from Brisbane to connect with sa~1sfactory as that previously given by 'Korara' for the usual Gulf of Carpentaria th1s company. Indeed, it is more than Ports will be from Brisbane, Saturday, passing strange that among those who 17th October. increased their orders was the State Govern­ "Notwithstanding numerous statements ment itself. The State Stores had a con­ that have appeared in the local and siderable quantity of desks and other school Northern press, attributed to Cabinet equip~ent to be sent to Thursday Island and Ministers stating that Hollands will be they tne·d to get them on this vessel. Supplies providing a more frequent, a better and of coke for Thursday Island Hospital were cheaper service to the Gulf, we cannot well above their normal volume because of get any details of this service." apparent fears that the same service would not be provided in the future. As a result, After all, if these things are so good and we _had the spect~cle o~ the "Waiben" being have been planned, why cannot somebody obliged to leave m Bnsbane a considerable find out about them? volume of cargo that it could not convey to The letter continues- Thursday Island because of overloading. "As any seTvice to the Gulf operated by Hollands will depend on a rail connec­ I think this provides irrefutable evidence tion Brisbane to Cairns, we have phoned that those who are close to the position the Railway Department approximately those who are on the site, not only hav~ twice a week for some months in an some doubts but have grave fears about the endeavour to obtain details of the arrange­ ability of the Government to provide this ment. It appears that to this day at any service. What is more, the head of the rate no decision has been reached so, State,_ who .~ad the opportunity by virtue in other words, Hollands has got nothing of h1s pos1t10n of contacting responsible by way of a concrete proposal to service members of his Government and the Public the Gulf when we leave off. Service to seek information, used his position, prestige and authority in this "Yesterday the Merchandise Manager of Chamber to give a considered statement of a northern house approached Hollands and Government policy on this matter, which is alleged to have been told that at this affects so many hundreds of people, a state­ juncture Hollands did not have a con­ !llent that was inaccurate in very many tract with anyone and therefore was not mstances. in a position to give freight quotations Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 541

to anyone. He said that he hoped to realise that the Queensland Government be able to convey goods from Brisbane certainly is not acting up to its responsibilities to Normanton for £18 and from Cairns in this matter. to Normanton for £15. This is rather I will now deal with some matters which interesting as, in view of the present con­ I think are very important. I preface my cession rail rate Brisbane to Cairns being general remarks by saying that we looked £10, he will have to find someone to to see whether we could concentrate on one cart for him from Cairns to Normanton or two particular matters that seemed to us for £8. to be crying out for some comment from "It appears that he is negotiating with responsible members on this side. But we Burton Bros. for transport from Cairns find that there are so many aspects of right through to Normanton but as yet he Government administration that can be dealt has no contract with them. with as the Treasurer would expect on an "It is also understood that there is no occasion such as this that it will be necessary proposal yet for delivery to Burketown and for various Opposition members to deal with the suggestion is that Burketown can different facets of Government administration. arrange to collect their goods from Nor­ Therefore there will be a very wide debate manton. on industrial matters, some aspects of the "Apart from our Company's own par­ cost of living, hospital administration, rail­ ticular interest, we are naturally concerned ways, industrial unrest, education, land that no satisfactory arrangements have matters-indeed, the whole field of Govern~ been provided for the Gulf. ment administration very properly can be brought under review in a debate of this "It was because of the foregoing that we kind. wired both Shire Council Chairmen today as under- Particular speakers will deal with matters 'View Waibens last sailing from that I have raised in a general way, including Brisbane seventeenth October and failure the recent decision to close certain suburban Government or Hollands to announce police stations which, unquestionably, was details alternative service to Gulf sug­ very hastily conceived and was done in a gest you use every means your disposal very surreptitious manner while Parliament press for announcement of the better was in recess. This is a decision which service promised'. affects a great number of people. All I want to say in a sentence or two on this "As regards Mornington, there is the matter is that this increasing trend towards suggestion that a boat will be located at centralisation is something which should be Normanton to service Mornington but examined very carefully by the Government. frankly we cannot see this being an economic venture. I admit that in these days of greater "Our information is that during the wet mobility there is a need for the flexible season the Cairns/Forsayth portion of the operation of the Police Force. The present road and the Croydon/Normanton section Commissioner of Police has built up, or are untrafficable. endeavoured to build UP, an image of the policeman as being the friend of every adult "Frankly, we think it is about time that and every child in the community, a person the people of the Gulf rallied together and who can be approached on all occasions with took some action to have the position confidence, a person who would be helpful clarified. to them in many ways. Instead of the police­ "As regards our own Company, we man being the bogy of the small child-as would still be interested in continuing a was the case many years ago when parents service to the Gulf of Carpentaria if such foolishly tried to frighten their children by was economically possible but without saying they would hand them over to a police­ some form of subsidy we cannot continue man-Commissioner Bischof, as did other to run." commissioners before him, has tried to Since those announcements we have heard remove that image and has spent a great deal that the company proposes to dispose of its of his time and directed a great deal of vessel, so we are losing a very well-known publicity towards that end. With all these vessel that has been oroviding a service for modern methods, desirable in many respects a number of years. In contrast to what the though they may be, I do not think there is Queensland Government claims it is doing, any substitute for the homely advice and and has failed to do satisfactorily, the local knowledge of the local policeman. A Western Australian Government is giving knowledge of likely trouble spots, and of incentives and encouragement to shipnin.g peoole who could cause trouble. is the best operators in that State to service the Gulf possible means of maintaining disciPline and ports from Western Australia. It is possible order in· the communitv. Whilst we might that with this encouragement we will be sav that in a period of change manv customs, losing trade from Brisbane and the inter­ habits and systems may be reviewed or mediate Ports to Cairns that should be altered in major resoects, I think this is a retained for this State. When we consider retrograde steo. There are at l~ast three the amount of goods traffic now being lost by hon. members -on this side who will soeak at the milways because merchants in Victoria length on this matter, namely, th~ non. and South Australia are using the road from member~ for Baroona, Bulimba. anrl Nudgee, South Australia for entrv into Queensland so I will not transgress on what they may through the western portion of this State, we wish to say. 542 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Murray: Does the hon. gentleman information contained. This Budget does suggest that the policeman on the traditional not depart from any major pattern of policy beat, as we always knew him in the past, in that regard. It would be remiss of the is of more value to the community than Treasurer if he were not to include in the mobile police? Tables information regarding the Govern­ ment's policy as reflected in its financial Mr. DUGGAN: I have said on numerous operations-so the Budget does this. He occasions that, apart from the police on actual would be an unusual Treasurer if he did traffic control in Melbourne and S~dney­ not seek to use the financial picture to bolster aL.d, because of the great amount of traffic the Government's case in trying to create the and the large number of pedes.rians, there image outside Parliament that the present are mounted policemen, and so on-one sees situation in Queensland is the result of the scarcely any other policemen on city streets. able and progressive policy designed by the I have also said there are too many police­ Country-Liberal coalition Government. men in the city of Brisbane who are virtually onlookers. I do not know of any capital Mr. Windsor: Don't you think that is right? city which has so many policemen virtually on hand as at Queen Street, or any of the Mr. DUGGAN: No, I do not think so at other major crossings in the city. I think all. there could well be a reorganisation at those What are these claims? The Treasurer may points. I believe that the more the Public say that I have left out other important Service trend towards centralisation develops claims, but at the end of his Budget he the more we will get a demand for superin­ summarises the following:- tendents. There is too much centralisation (a) The Budget provides no new or with too many tall poppies at the top. I additional taxes; realise the good work done by the Police (b) It provides for a year of increasing Force. I have not had occasion to quarrel economic activity; and with the general work done over the years, (c) It is a development Budget-it is nor has any hon. member on this side. We an education Budget. all appreciate the good work done by the force. However, this move is not in the There are, of course, supplementary claims interests of the public. that have been lumped together. We have tht annual airing of the Mount Isa railway I do not want to spend a great deal of project, the development of Weipa, the export my time in dealing with this matter, or to of coal and the development of our port detract from what hon. members who are so facilities. These things are very desirable, closely concerned with it may say. At the and I suppose we should not expect the same time, I do not want this matter fobbed Treasurer to deny himself the opportunity off on the basis that the only people who of bringing them forward from time to time; are concerned are the hon. member for but in each Budget, in the policy speeches of Nudgee, the hon. member for Bulimba and the leaders of the coalition Government and myself. Such an approach would be nonsense in the spate of propaganda that flows from when we know that protest meetings are being th<: Public Relations Bureau, these things are held and petitions freely signed by members presented as being new developments and oi responsible organisations and other people thrngs that are current in only the last in the community. If the Minister wants to financial year, when in actual fact they are preserve the image of co-operation between aired annually. the police and the public he should say, "I will listen to all these approaches." It is The Treasurer is not one of those who are then his prerogative, and the prerogative of handicapped by the inability to use the the Government, after hearing all points of appropriate phrase. He gives expression to view, to decide what will be done in the his sentiments and to his thoughts. He con­ matter. Surely that is the right approach. cluded his statement on an almost dramatic, If it is desired to create respect for the optimistic note by saying- functions of the police and establish their "The value of the development under­ responsibility to the public, and the responsi­ taken by the State will endure. Great bility of the public to the police, the least the new industries and additions to existing Minister can do is to display an attitude of activity will shortly be adding their throb­ co-operation instead of trying to be smart bing output to the economic life blood of and passing these matters off as if they were the community. The years of waiting and of no importance. planning are ending. The years of dramatic growth and expansion are now with us." The Budget is perhaps the only single docu­ ment which sets out, in a compact but com­ They are very fine-sounding words, and the prehensive form, the financial and economic Treasurer must have got healthy satisfaction developments and trends which have taken when he was dictating them to those respon­ place in the previous 12 months, and the sible for compiling this document; but they short-term predictions made for 1964-65 and are part of a pattern that has flowed from beyond. What are the chief claims made by Government spokesmen for a long time. On the Treasurer for his Budget? He makes 11 May, 1960, Mr. Morris said- many claims. As I pointed out, a Budget "Queensland no longer lies dormant, but is really a recital, as one would expect is a giant wakening and flexing its because that is where we hope to find all th~ muscles." Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 543

On 5 May, 1960, Mr. Nicklin said- As I have said so frequently, if one goes "We have brought a new outlook, a fresh back to the earliest days one will nnd approach to the Government of Queens­ invariably, with one or two exceptions, that land and its problems of development, and, each budget makes provision for expenditure under the stimulus, incentive and drive we greater than that provided in the previous have imparted, the State's progress in all one. There are several reasons for this. its phases has been accelerated to top gear." They are increased population, increased need for development, and at times, as now, I suppose the Treasurer can see that the a depreciation in the value of money. margin of speeds in top gear is very great, Projects started today do not provide any so he can say, "We are in top gear, but we more facilities than those provided for much are not at the maximum speed in top gear." lower sums of money seven or eight years He can use the defence, "The State is not ago. One is led to believe that because a moving forward in low gear; it is not moving building costs £300,000 today compared with forward in second gear; and"-listening to £200,000 seven years ago, better manage­ some Government spokesmen-"it is not in ment is reflected. Of course, all that is reverse gear-it is in top gear, accelerating indicated is the inflation that has taken place. the development of the State." I exempt the Treasurer, in a general way, Of course, I am also mildly amused by from respomibility for inflation, except as reading the Treasurer's report on the develop­ I shall qualify later when I refer to the ment in our primary industries. He said cost of living. This inflation is typical that one or two of them had been adversely of the Australian economy, and that of the affected by drought. I have found that when world generally. I am not saying that it is this Government has been faced with a deficit peculiar to Queensland. it has attributed that deficit to the dry seasons. "Jobson's Digest" stated in an editorial This is the first occasion on which the only last week- Treasurer has deplored wet conditions for "Make no mistake-the only thin.g their effect on revenue. He says- wrong with business at the moment JS "Racing revenues were slightly less than that it is too good. This may sound a expected. £1,293,576 was received against paradoxical remark, but we must avoid a the estimate of £1,400,000. This was situation where over-prosperity triggers off attributed in part to the abandonment of a dangerous round of inflation. meetings early this calendar year due to "We cannot live simply for the present. wet conditions ..." Much of our well-being can be traced On this occasion we have the spectacle of back to the tremendous level of export wet weather contributing to the slight decline earnings from wool, metals, sugar, wheat, in Government revenue, whereas on most meat and other primary products. other occasions drought conditions have been "Crop failures overseas and the running responsible. down of stocks are partly responsible for the buoyant level of demand. But when Mr. Bromley: The only trouble is that they conditions return to normal, our ability to cannot handle the going. maintain sales will depend on being able to compete price-wise." Mr. DUGGAN: It is a wet track. We of the Opposition have been saying that I mention that in passing, and I am merely for some time. We have said many things pointing out that it is a new twist on what that have been "rubbished" from time to I have been listening to for a number of time. years. We now find that the "wet" has been Some of my colleagues and I made invoked as a reason why revenue was not speeches earlier in which we referred to £100,000 more. the problem of foreign investment in this There are some general questions that we country and the need for greater Australian may well examine to ascertain whether this participation. The Treasurer rejected the Budget is very much different from others. submissions that I made on that matter as No-one can truthfully deny that we are recently as when the last Budget was before living in buoyant times. No person with any the Chamber, or the one before that. We sense of responsibility would be foolish now find that on Saturday night the enough to claim that the economy generally Prime Minister, who is Australia's arch is not buoyant. We alt know that it is. Conservative, said in a spee·ch in South What annoys me, however, is the Govern­ Australia that he hoped overseas investors ment's constantly emphasising that this would take some cognisance of the need for state of buoyancy is the result of Govern­ Australian participation. That is something ment policy and nothing else, and is peculiar we have been saying for seven, eight, or to Queensland. Whenever the Australian 10 years. Labour Party takes part in a by-election When we made suggestions concerning the or a general election, Government spokes­ selling of wheat to Russia and Red China, men quote figures and say, "The A.L.P. soent we were told, at that time by the D.L.P. in this amount up till 1957 on roads, hospitals, particular, that we would be trading with our education, railways, and so on. We have enemies. There is no reluctance by the spent eve-r so much more, so we are con­ present Government to facilitate in every sequently a better Government." possible way visits to Peking and other places 544 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

for the purpose of selling our products. on a tiger and does not know how to get off. When it comes to selling something, the In fact, even the Liberal Party in New South politics of the country concerned become a Wales has not agreed to abandon poker different matter. However, if one passes machines, although it has certainly prescribed within a few yards of a Communist one can increased denominations, and so on, to deter bet his last sixpence that it will be noted and ordinary people from putting ls. or 6d. into in due course his photograph will be pub­ them. lished or his name used as being in some Mr. Hughes: You would not support them way connected with a conspiracy designed here? to undermine the democratic foundations of this country. When Sir Will:am Gunn goes Mr. DUGGAN: No. I do not think it is to Red China and technical officers are sent good for the community to have poker to set up spinning mills to assist in the sale machines. Of course, I am not a gambling of wool, and when technical and selling man or a betting man, and obviously my officers of the Australian Wheat Board go views are not shared by very many people to these places, it is regarded as good in New South Wales be-cause the patronage business. of the machines indicates that they are a Mr. JEwan: You are not really objecting popular feature of certain social and club to that, are you? life in that State. Now let me examine for a moment the Mr. DUGGAN: Yes, I am being objective, increase in taxation to which I referred because, as I have said so many times before, earlier. The Treasurer and the Premier trade, except where artificial or legislative have been at pains from time to time to point barriers are erected, will go wherever it can out that, because of our inability to persuade command the best prices. It is not concerned various Commonwealth administrations to with politics, race, or colour. I am con­ match the requirements of Queensland, we fident that if the hon. member who inter­ have not received the per-capita grants that jected had a choice between selling his wool they felt we should in comparison with the to local buyers at a price of 60d. or 70d. other Australian States. The Treasurer a pound and selling it to the Communist attributes this to two main factors: firstly, regime in Red China at SOd. a pound, he that aboriginals are not counted in the census would bend over backwards to sell it in for taxation reimbursement purposes, which Red China. is a valid point; secondly, that there is some inaccuracy in the compilation of the census, Mr. JEwan: You are not really objecting which I do not altogther accept, although he to that principle, are you? can point to the fact that there has been Mr. DUGGAN: I do not wish to spend some adjustment. a great deal of time on that subject. Mr. Hiley: Three consecutive censuses. Let me deal now with the Budget gener­ Mr. DUGGAN: If similar action were ally. As I said earlier, the Treasurer has taken, I think it would probably apply had the benefit of a very big injection of equally to other States, because in a country funds from various quarters. For instance, where so many people are moving about and in the Summary of Commonwealth Payments there are so many seasonal workers it is to or for the States, a document release·d by very difficult to get a clear picture of the Commonwealth Statistician under the the actual population of any State at a given authority of the Federal Treasurer, we find time. that the following increases have taken place since 1957-58:- Mr. Hiley: Except that Queensland is the £ only State that has been consis~ently under­ New South Wales 65,000,000 estimated. Victoria 48,000,000 Mr. DUGGAN: I am pointing out that that Queensland 35,000,000 is a factor to which the Treasurer has drawn South Australia 14,000 000 attention. 33,000,000 Western Australia The other major point he makes, of course, And so it goes on. If we look at the is that we did not press our claims for loan Treasurer's Financial Tables, we will find allocations to the extent we should have on reflected in them the increase that has taken the formula and that we got less than we place, and much of it, of course, is due to should have. The Treasurer has been able to the increase in taxation during this period. point out with truth that Queensland's share I shall come back to that considerable of the Australian total has been gradually increase in taxation in a few minutes. but progressively increasing. I was not very Certainly we are at a disadvantage intimately concerned with these matters at compared with New South Wales because Commonwealth level except at one particular of the operation in that State of poker conference when the then Premier was absent. machines, which, I think unfortunately. exact I was not a Treasurer at any stage so that I a heavy toll from the people of that State. I would not have the same opportunity of do not like criticising a Government of the discussing; these matters on a negotiatory same political kidney as my own party, but bas:s with Commonwealth officers, but it has I think poker machines have got out of hand been charged against former Labour adminis­ and that the 'New South Wales Government is trations that we did not put for:ward as many Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 545

propositions or, in other words, that we did in this country we are lagging very greatly not overload our demands as the other States behind other countries in the provision of obviously did. I think that, rather than that university and technical education facilities being a matter for criticism of the administra­ for the young people in our community. tion, it is something in their favour. I drew attention in my last policy speech to Because of shortages of labour and the important fact that whatever the materials it was not possible at the time to deficiencies were in our education system in undertake certain projects, and the States that 1957-1 admit that I think much more could did spend their resources to the utmost con­ have been done much earlier in the field of tributed in no small way to the inflationary education-they were not as marked as they trends of the period. Against that, the have become since the advent to office of prudence of the Queensland Labour adminis­ this Government. According to the Com­ tration during those years resulted in this monwealth Grants Commission Report the State not paying as much interest per capita expenditure on education per head of popula­ as some of the other States. The Treasurer tion in 1956-57 was lower in Queensland uses the argument that we should have devel­ than in any other State. For that, of course, oped many projects a little earlier, but because we were roundly condemned. Indeed, when of our prudence we did not load the public I heard these figures quoted for the first time debt of th;s State to the same extent as did I felt I had to get my thinking cap on to some of the other States. answer that sort of criticism. I found it was true. There has been an increase in taxation. The figures I have here relate only to 1962. In the earlier period we were lagging The Treasurer will have later figures. I took very greatly behind the other States. For these from the last Commonwealth Year instance, in 1956-57 New South Wales spent Book and they show that from 1957 to £10 2s. lld. per head of the population on 1962 taxation per head of population has education, compared with £8 Is. 3d. in ir.creased in Queensland by £4 1s. I must Q,reensland. Every State spent more per confess that with the exception of South head of population than did Queensland in Australia it was lower than for the other 1956-57. What were the deficiencies in States. The picture will be altered substanti­ 1956-57? We were spending £2 1s. 8d. ally by the figures for the last two years but less than New South Wales, £1 15s. 4d. less taxation per head is certainly less in Queens­ than Victoria, £1 1Os. 2d. less than South land, particularly when one considers the Australia, £3 11s. 10d. less than Western size of th;s State and its situation. I think Australia and £4 15s. 2d. less than Tasmania. this State's public debt is being serviced more But in 1961-62 the position deteriorated until economically than those of other States we were £3 16s. 2d. behind New South because of the prudence exercised by former Wales-£1 15s. Od. worse off than when Labour Treasurers in this State. That is a Labour left office; we were £3 7s. 5d. behind point that should be borne in mind when all Victoria, roughly £1 12s. Od. worse off after this credit is being claimed. this Government had been in power for five years; we were £3 16s. 2d. behind South I wish now to deal with the claim that this Australia; we spent £4 13s. 3d. per head less is an education Budget. Great stress has been than Western Australia, and £5 Ss. 9d. less laid by this Government on what is being than Tasmania. In every case during this done in the field of education. I must confess period, when the Government is making such that some worth-while things have been done extravagant claims about its education policy, in this regard. That cannot be denied but, we have gone further back compared with against that, the Government is trying to create the general feeling that what is happen­ what the other States spent on education. ing in the field of education in· this State is Let us take a look at what is happening again something that has not been paralleled with the provision for this year in what the elsewhere in the Commonwealth. Treasurer frankly declares to be an educa­ tion Budget. The Estimates show that this In policy speeches by Liberal and Country year there will be an increase of 11 · 9 per Party leaders since 1960 there has been con­ cent. on the estimated expenditure for stant reference to secondary education and to 1963-64, or a 7 pet cent. increase on the expenditure on our universities in contrast to actual expenditure last year when more was what was spent per head of the population by spent than the estimated amount. In Labour when it was in power. They do not Victoria this year there will be an increase point out that in regard to the provision of of 9 · 5 per cent.; in Tasmania the increase primary classrooms the figures show a retro­ is 9·3 per cent. But in New South Wales, gression in many years since this Government a Labour State, the increase this year is 18 has been in power compared with the final per cent. year of Labour rule, namely, 1957. True it is that there has been a very marked expan­ How can the Treasurer say that this is sion in the provision of secondary schools, primarily an education Budget, flaunting the but that has been a feature of the post-war increase over last year before the public period in every conntry in the world. We as an indication of the earnest desire of the are now listed as 20th in the nations of the Government to make up for its deficiencies in world in expenditure per head of population so many directions, when our percentage on education. Despite what we are doing increase on education is only on the same 546 Supply [ASSEMBLY) Supply level as the non-Labour States and indeed As to hospital expenditure, the Queens­ very much below the provision made for the land expenditure for 1964-65 is estimated to adjoining Labour State of New South Wales? increase by 4 per cent. over last year's figure. In Victoria the Estimates provide Mr. Murray: Perhaps New South Wales is for an increase of 7 · 7 per cent.; in Tas­ catching it up in one hit because an election mania there is provision for an 11 · 3 per is coming on. cent. increase, and in South Australia there is to be a 13 · 6 per cent. increase. All these Mr. DUGGAN: I would remind the hon. matters are merely setting the pattern or the member for Clayfield that when there was trend of the time. All these allocations are no election in New South Wales-in 1960-61 being increased in the other States. -expenditure on education per head of the population in that State was £14 13s. lid. Unfortunately, I do not have access to as against £11 5s. 5d. in Queensland. So documents as has the Treasurer. He intended it does not appear that elections are respon­ to say something about the phenomenal sible for their figures. In 1961-62 their increase in savings bank deposits in Queens­ increase per head was higher than Queens­ land compared with those in other States. land's. Consistently, right through the piece, The only books that we had were the you will find that the New South Wales Monthly Review of Statistics, which con­ Labour Government has been spending more tain the latest figures. They show that on education per head of population than since 1957 the increase in savings per head has Queensland. It has been mindful of its of population in Queensland was £28. This responsibilities year by year. Whether or not is supposed to indicate the degree of pros­ there is consideration of an election pending, perity in the State. However, in New I do not know. Because of a long association South \Jifales there was an increase of £253 with the Federal Liberal Party the hon. rer head. while in Victoria the increa·se was member should be an expert on what Govern­ £175. In South Australia, for some inex­ ments do when elections are pending, because plicable reason, there was a decrease of £68. no Government promised more at election However, these figures do not support the time than the Menzies Government-of which general story that prosperity in Queensland he was a member for a short period-and no is as marked as the Treasurer is prone to Government repudiated its promises more mention from time to time. quickly after an election than the Govern­ I should like to move on to the industrial ment of which he was a member for such a discontent that is prevailing in Queensland short period. at present. It might be said that an attempt While on the subject of education I wish is being made by the left-wing unions, to deal with expenditure on uni~ersities. through threats, stoppages, and dislocation It can be said that 18 · 3 per cent. of the of industry generally, to obtain from increase in the New South Wales Estimates employers-because there is a shortage of this year covers universities, about which skilled personnel-wages which will not be we hear so much. It is rather interesting awarded by the Industrial Conciliation and to point out that, whatever representation~ Arbitration Commission. This industrial dis­ flow from this State to the Commonwealth content is something that should cause any -and I do not know what they are-page responsible Government a good deal of con­ 42 of the 1964-65 edition of Commonwealth cern. but, quite frankly, I do not think that Payments to or for the States shows that in the Government cares very much about it. 1963-64 contributions by the Commonwealth It is prepared on this occasion, as it has been on very manv others. to ride out the for specific purposes of a revenue nature for storm. Indeed, when action is taken we universities were: £1 ls. lid. for New South find that the Minister for Transport wants Wales; 15s. lid. for Victoria; 16s. 8d. for a trial of strength and threatens to use the Queensland; £1 3s. 2d. for South Aus­ resources of the Government against the tralia; £1 Os. 5d. for Western Australia, and railwaymen. His remarks, of c01irse, apply 17s. 6d. for Tasmania. Those figures show to the railwavs. but other Ministers also that, with the exception of Victoria, Queens­ have a responsibility to the working com­ land is in the worst position. In relation to munity. payments for specific purposes of a capital I want to point out that one of the reasons nature we find that Queensland is well below for this industrial discontent is the uneasiness the other States, the figures being as fol­ in the minds of trade-union leaders about the lows: 9s. 2d. for New South Wales; 16s. 3d. fact that Queensland is dropping behind other for Victoria; 7s. 4d. for Queensland; 12s. 7d. States in two ways. Firstly, we are not for South Australia; 14s. lOd. for Western sharing in the average earnings per employee Australia, and lls. 4d. for Tasmania. The to the same extent as are emnlovees in other average is lls. 8d., as against the Queens­ States. I drew attention to this fact in some figures I gave some time ago when I pointed land figure of 7s. 4d. The picture is repeated out that the earnings of male employees per throughout the other tables, which time pre­ head in Queensland were about £2 a week vents me from reading. They may be found lower than the Australian average, and that on page 43. I will not deny the Treasurer the cost of living had shown its greatest an opportunity to deal with them in his increase in Queensland during the six years reply. that this Government has been in power. Supply [6 OcroBER] Supply 547

No large industrial group wants to commit feel that the Commission's decision was its members to senseless displays of strength. unreasonable, and that none of them could After all, who are these people who make quibble with or argue against the increase of up the segment of industrial life of the com­ 14s. They said that !Os. would not be a fair munity? There is management on the one increase, whereas the Government said the hand, but I do not know what remuneration increase should be 4s. those people receive because it is a matter of This Government took from the workers at arrangement. On the other hand, except for Mt. Isa the right to have bonuses increased pmiicular agreements entered into between by the Industrial Commission. The company contracting parties, there are the workers, and at Mt. Isa is earning tremendous profits. I the pattern has been to leave matters affecting say, again for the record, that this a company them to the Industrial Commission. that was helped by guarantees by a Labour I do not want my remarks to be miscon­ Government, and the Opposition at that time, strued, but the Public Service recently had a in a reflection of the political thinking of substantial increase, and no doubt the Public those now on the Government side, criticised Service were able to point to a disparity the Labour Government for gambling on a between rates in Queensland and other States hole in the ground. The company was given on a "like with like" basis. The fact remains freight concessions and helped in every pos­ that there were no very long negotiations in sible way over a period of time. It is now this matter-there was no occasion for making very large profits, and its 5s. shares expressing resentment against the pattern of are at one of the highest premiums on the the increase-but there seemed to be a share market today. Despite the issuing of willingness on the part of the Government bonus shares and so on, the Ss. shares of and the Public Service Commissioner, acting this company now stand at approximately 43s. with the full approval of the Government, to 01 44s., even though they have declined meet the public servants, so that by virtual agreement the salaries over a wide range of recently because of the decision of the classifications in the Public Service were workers not to proceed with contract work. increased. What makes the ordinary working Undoubtedly the Government has decided man in the communitv so resentful is that, in to have a head-on collision with the workers. contrast to that attitude, the Government In today's Press we find that fines amounting refuses to meet him. The Government is tc; £4,400 have been imposed on 12 railway entitled to say that it is not prepared to meet unions. If that is not an invitation to these employees, except, perhaps in the case of workers to accept the challenge of the Gov­ the Public Service or the Police Force. A ernment, I do not know what is. In my few minutes ago the hon. member for Clay­ view, nothing is more calculated to destroy field referred 'io things being done in New the Industrial Court than the imposition of South Wales on the eve of an election. In such severe penalties. The court was given this State major increases were granted to this power by legislation inspired by the then public servants, the police and emnloyees Minister for Labour and Industry and Deputy in the Department of Education on the eve Premier, Mr. Morris, and approved by the of the last election. Government. The granting of three weeks' annual leave What has happened in Victoria? In this was an abomination in the industrial nicture. State, neither the Premier nor any other The Government sent an advocate into the responsible Minister would consent to an Industrial Commission to state that it should interview with union leaders on industrial be granted-and this was immediately before matters. Does anyone believe that men with an election. I do not find all the economic families and hire-purchase commitments fine disarray and disorder in the community as a themselves £4 or £5 a day in stoppages unless re~nlt of three weeks' leave being granted, they feel that there is some justification for which the Government nredicted would be them? It is all very well to point, as the the case if Labour introduced it legislatively. Minister for Transport does, to trade-union The Government did it surreptitiously and leaders and refer frequently to Nolan, for electioneering purposes. Egerton, Macdonald, and so on. Some This Government has issued a direct members of the Liberal Party say that there challenge to the ordinary worker in the com­ are 68 delegates to the Q.C.E., each of whom munity, who has been beset by the granting is either a Communist or is Communist­ of higher wages to public servants. Over the controlled or inspired. That is filthy, lying vears, successive Governments, including this propaganda, and it is used all the time in an Government. went into the Inrlustrial Court endeavour to have the public think that to state, "We give you statistical evidence Nolan, Doyle, Devereux, and others are regarding the movement of wages and nrices the real fomenters of trouble. As a matter in. our economv, and we leave it to the Court of fact, a reading of the Press indicates that to give its determination." On the occasion leaders of the trade unions and the A.C.T.U. before last, when an application for an are fighting a defensive battle to have their increase in waP"es was made, the Government, authority accepted by the rank and file who for the first time, intervened actively as an believe that their demands are not being agent, and ple::>rled for a 1s .. increase in the pressed firmly enough. basic wage. The CommiSSion granted :m increa~e of 14s., which show~ what it thon<>ht A wage increase of £1 a week was granted of the Government's suhmis,ions. The recently, and price rises immediately absorbed employers' representatives said they did not it, despite the fact that it was granted on the 548 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply evidence of present and not future costs. Otnly white-collar workers, it ought to be good the other day another application was made enough to say, "Let us have a look at this for an increase. The Commission, and even position." The Government was not back­ the employers, agreed that there have been ward in taking from the Commission the price increases justifying some movement in right to increase the lead bonus. It did the basic wage, but it will have to wait till not say, "Leave it to the Commission." It the September cost-of-living index is known. said to the Commission, "We give you Where is it all going to stop? What did power to decrease the lead bonus but not to Mr. Bolte, who is the most arrogant Liberal increase it." In spite of this, the Govern­ Premier in Australia, do? Because of the ment now talks about leaving the matter force of public opinion, with people marching to the Commission. In my opinion, these in their thousands and protesting against things call for condemnation. inadequate wages, taxation increases, increases The Government has not taken any in the cost of living, and other matters, Mr. action to control prices. How many times Bolte realised that he had some responsibility have we heard the Minister for Industrial for the industrial wellbeing of his State. Development, who was in the Chamber a Without reference to any industrial tribunal, few minutes ago, say that the free opera­ he agreed to wage increases costing approxi­ tion of private enterprise will enable him mately £2,100,000 a year. to keep prices at a reasonable level? Yet This Government will not even agree to the worker is being hurt all along the line grant an interview to responsible members of by increases in the cost of living. I again the industrial community. Its answer is, "Go refer to Bulletin 41 of 1964 issued by the to the Industrial Commission." What is Bureau of Census and Statistics-the figures getting everyone angry is the discrimination are the latest available-which shows that, that the Government shows in the treatment based on 100, the following increases have of its friends. To meet their wishes, it will taken place in the cost of Iivin!S in the past bend in any direction. Towards the great seven years since the Covntrv-I iberal mass of ordinary workers, whether they be Government came to office in Queensland- railwaymen, waterside workers, or employees Sydney 11·6 of Mount Isa Mines Ltd., its attitude is Melbourne 13 · 1 entirely different. Then we see the provoca­ Adelaide 12·4 tive flag-waving by the Minister for Transport, Perth 10·9 who says, "Have your railways. If you want Hobart 12·5 a trial of strength we will throw open the Brisbane 17 roads to the road-transport operators." He says that only when it suits him, of course. The Government does nothing because it He criticised the road-transport operators for wants to protect its friends. How can we suggesting that they should take advantage have industrial peace if on one 'hand it wants of the courts to contest the validity of certain to regiment employees and on the other legislation. Now we find him using road­ it does not take action to keep prices down? transport operators for the sole purpose of I think there is a considerable body of bringing railwaymen to their knees because opinion in the industrial field that there he knows that they will be unable to meet should be some stabilisation of costs in their hire-purchase commitments, and so on. order to prevent inflation. Pensioners and people on fixed incomes are hardest hit by Mr. Hughes: You do not suggest that he inflation. Some people can pass on cost should agree to their sabotaging the coun­ increases; those on fixed incomes cannot. try's welfare? I think it would be of advantage if some­ thing were done at a Commonwealth level Mr. DUGGAN: I am saying that the along the lines of pegging profits, and so position has become ridiculous when the on, if wages are to be pegged. Commission can say to certain unions, "Unless you can come to the Commission Is there a differ<>nt Liberal philosophy in with a predetermined agreement with the Victoria? D'd the Victorian Liberal Premier, employers, we will not ratify any increases," Mr. Bolte, say, "I am not goin~< to inter­ and on the very same day that it rejects fere in this matter. It is strictly for the their applications grant increases to public court."? No. He said without anv hesi­ servants. Let me make it quite clear that tation that the Government would interfere. I am not criticising the public servants. They have been able to satisfy a sympathetic Mr. Pizzey interjected. Government of the merits of their claims, and I do not think that a Labour Govern­ Mr. DUGGAN: It is a pity that the Minis­ ment wonld have been less svmpath,tic to ter for Education was not here wh"n I them. There is no reason whv public ser­ dealt with education. He was not shown vants in Queensland should receive less than up in a verv !'OOd Jight, desnite all the their counterparts in other States doin!S ftapdoodle that we hear from time to time. similar wor\:. I-Towever, mv point is that In his absence, I nointed out that when we ther,. should not be anv discrimination, and left office in 1957 we were in the unfor­ the Grwernment is creating an atmosphere of tunate position of spending ]Pss pPr h<"ad discrimination. Jf it is rrood enon2'h to on educfltion than anv other St~te Grwe"ll­ enter into negotiations with a section of ment. The Minister has used that fact. But Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 549 since he has been Minister for Education, assume its responsibility in this regard it will Queensland has gone back further than any secure better results than are evident at other State. the present time. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] I think I should say at this stage that the Treasurer had a surplus last year but Mr. DUGGAN: At the luncheon break, has budgeted for a deficit of £500,000 on which always seems to come at an unfor­ this occasion. He may say that he is in tunate time when one becomes a little bit good company because all the other States impassioned in making a point, I was con­ are doing the same thing, but in his reply cluding my general remarks on the present he may be able to make some observation industrial di>content and some of the reasons on one point. It used to be thought desir­ for it. It is not much good directing atten­ able Government economic policy in times tion to this situation without making some of prosperity to budget for a surplus and constructive proposals. It would take too in times of economic difficulty to budget for long to outline all the steps necessary to a deficit. That policy seems to have been achieve some worth-while results in this thrown overboard not only in Queensland direction, but principally I made the point Budgets but in the Budgets of other States of the disinclination of the Government to as well. I should be interested to hear the see what can be done instead of issuing, Treasurer's comments on that point. I have through some of its Ministers, ultimatums the feeling that Budget deficits have been and challenges of a trial of strength. I perhaps designed to strengthen the bargaining contrasted that attitude with that of the powers of the various States when the Liberal Premier in Victoria. I also said uniform taxation agreement comes up for that the time was opportune for us to review in the near future. examine the overall cost structure. I think I feel that there may be compelling the Treasurer has indicated in the Budget tactical reasons why the ::.tates are budgeting that there is need for price restraint because for deficits, namely to increase their bargain­ he realises, as I think all important people ing powers at the conference table when do, that if we are going to strengthen our this agreement is renewed. Be that as it economy in the difficult, competitive times may, it seems to be a reversal of form in ahead, we must be very conscious about these times of so-called unprecedented pros­ increasing our cost structure. perity to be budgeting for a deficit when The mere increasing of wages, followed we have a shortage of skilled personnel and by a corresponding increase in the cost of shortages in so many other categories, and living, is not nece,sarily the solution. We when prices are increasing. have seen in France the chaos that occurs Most of the favourable results in the with constant increases in wages followed by Budget have been brought about by the astronomical increases in the cost of living. improvement in railway finances. No-one is That situation has also obtained in other more cognisant than I am of the difficulties countries in the world and we do not want of operating that very important State instru­ to see it obtain here. mentality. There are several reasons why I sugge't that the workers of Australia this improvement has taken place. Much of and of Queensland would be conducive to it has been brought about by the closure of some restraint on their demands if sacrifices unprofitable branch lines, although that was were being accepted by other sections of done at the expense of the convenience of the community. It is not enough to say people in various parts of the State and at merely that the reimposition of price control the expense of the development of the State. is a solution. We think that is necessary The closure of branch lines was very strongly as the fact' prove that in those states where resisted by present Government members there has been virtually unlimited decontrol when in Opposition, but it is now being the increase has been greater than in States done as a deliberate plan to assist the State's where some restraint is still exercised­ finances. Since 1957 there has been a big notably South Australia, where there has reduction in the number of personnel in the been some slowing down in the inflationary department. At 30 June, 1957, the staff spiral. numbered 29,823 whereas at 30 June. 1963. the number was 26,581, a reduction of 3,242. I think workers would be inclined to Since then the number has dropped to accept the situation if comparable sacrifices 26,487 as at 30 June, 1964. That reduction were made by tho'e earning profits and in staff represents a very considerable saving. dividends. But there are certain other Goods traffic has increased 16 per cent. measures to be taken. Time will not permit of my dealing with them but I do not want The increased utilisation of diesel-electric the Treasurer to assume that I do not think locomotives has further helped to improve they are important. After all, Government the position. In this direction this Govern­ policy and employers' action alone cannot ment is merely carrying on the policy laid promote the industrial well-being of this down at the time we left office when we had State. There must be a desire for co-opera­ about 58 or 60 diesel locomotives. The fact tion and understanding, and a willingness that diesel locomotives constitute only about to accept the burdens impooed on us to 14 per cent. of the total locomotive strength develop this country. I am arguing that and yet last year carried 63 per cent. of all when the Government shows a disposition to traffic is an indicator of how economic it is 550 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply to use this new motive power for the con­ The Treasurer asked for some restraint; veyance of goods over the railways. Other restraint has to be applied by members of factors responsible for the improvement in the Government as well as those to whom the railway finances are the improved seasons, advice is offered. the increased metal won at Mount Isa, The very bountiful seasons we have had­ increased coal traffic and the movement of with some exceptions in various isolated cattle throughout the State. All these things pockets of the State-together with the have contributed to the more satisfactory increase in prices brought about by the facts financial position. But I have a feeling­ I have referred to, make the economic out­ and it is shared by many railway people­ look fairly good. I believe that our grain that lots of economies are being effected, the crops will be sold profitably. The increases undesirable features of which are not readily in tin, lead, zinc and mineral sands prices apparent. If you close down a school or a are indicative of a buoyant and prosperous hospital, for example, the impact of that year. Despite all the talk about prosperity decision is felt immediately and there is a in the sugar industry, we have seen how great outcry by the people concerned about dramatically the whole situation can change being deprived of that service. If you in 12 months. A little while ago the price prolong the 20-year working life of a diesel of sugar on the overseas market was over locomotive for, say, three or four years, £100 a ton but it is now in the vicinity of nobody realises just how uneconomic it is to £40 Australian or £33 10s. sterling. There have that prolongation until replacement or has been a big drop in price within a few repairs become necessary. The same principle months which no-one could foresee. Heavy applies to the painting and repair of buildings. expenditure is being incurred in the sugar The deterioration or neglect that is gradu­ industry. I am glad that the Minister for ally going on is not readily apparent. That Primary Industries is present. I was in the North a few months ago and I found that is one of the problems we met as an adminis­ people were determined to spend because of tration after the cessation of hostilities. Dur­ the high price being obtained for sugar. They ing the war it was not possible to provide were not concerned with costs. I talked to for many of these things so that in 1945 we one well-sinker who told me that two years faced the situation of having about 30 per ago it was a question of "How much will it cent. of the locomotives out of commission cost?", whereas now it is a question of because they had been run into the ground "When can you do it?" There is no question during the war years. We had something of price at all. like 14 or 15 per cent. of carriages out of use and I think that applied to about 15 per Those are facts with which the Treasurer cent. of our wagons. It is not economic should be concerned. We have to consider for any organisation to have so much rolling­ the trends in overseas markets. I have some stock out of commission. By the injection interesting figures concerning industrial of new rolling-stock it was possible for us to development and the development of our gradually rehabilitate our railways and exports overseas. Things are taking place improve our track. dramatically, and agreements are being entered into; all these matters may have a All these things are reflected to some degree very big impact on a primary-producing in the present position. There has b~ 11 a State such as Queensland. The economy of further injection of capital and, of course, the State is buoyant. However, there are interest has to be met on that. The net some aspects of Government policy which deficit on the operations of the railways rs concern me. For political reasons the less this year than it has been for some time. Government has been extolling the benefits I can only hope that that will continue. flowing to the people of Queensland purely However, there is a grave shortage of trades­ as a result of the Government's policy. men in many of our workshops. Many of However, in my view, and in the view of all them are leaving to take up positions outside. Onoosition members, they are the result of Again the impact of this is not readily circumstances entirely beyond the Govern­ apparent at the present time but it is a liability ment's control. They are characteristic of the and .an obligation which the administration Australian economy, which we say is will have to face up to in the years ahead. reflected in so many other directions. I I have only five or six minutes left. I do pointed out, in the particular cases where the not wish to do the Treasurer the discourtesy Government claims credit. such as education, of not dealing particularly with some of the hospitals, and so on, that whilst we are very important matters raised in the Budget. certainly doing a great deal of valuable work, I have raised some particular matters but it is no more valuable, and certainly less there are many others I should like to have massive in character, than in various other dealt with, such as the increase in the cost of States of the Commonwealth. houses. I am greatly concerned about the If we are to survive as a young nation, denudation of our forests and the increasing confronted with so many Perplexing Problems need to import large quantities of timber now threatening, and dangerous problems in from abroad, and I am also concerned about the North. the successful use of brain-power some aspects of our industrial development. is an essential Prereouisite in this period. The However, I deliberately refrained from Government now realises that we have not touching on this subiect as I will have an sufficient skilled labour and is sending depu­ opportunity to deal with it when the relevant tations overseas to recruit it. We pointed Estimates are before us. this shortage out several years ago. Skilled Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 551 labour cannot be recruited overnight because and arbitration, the system which we on this there is an overseas shortage. Even if it side of the Chamber uphold. I do not think could, we would add to the inflationary spiral that this oives a licence to union leaders to in providing houses and other ancillary incite oth~rs to carry out irresponsible acts requirements. Consequently, that would not and to hold the country to ransom. I do help us overcome all our problems. not think that that does any good for the There are problems confronting every unions concerned. State and we must realise that a primary­ The Leader of the Opposition spoke to a producing State like Queensland is dependent greater extent about employees on wages who on overseas prices, which fluctuate. Because are committed to hire-purchase and other of our peculiar problems we face difficulty repayments finding themselves bereft of in developing our secondary industries on a income and their families suffering. Some­ comparable basis with Victoria, New South times I believe that these hardships are self­ Wales and South Australia, so I believe that imposed. I have seen waterside workers, and we must concentrate on the things we can similar employees, holding illegal stop-work do, and can do well. We must make the best meetings on some occasions, and of course oossible use of our educated people and they are penalised for that, apart from thus make up in anality of contribution what the loss of pay. Arbitration is not we may perhaps lack in numbers. a one-way system; there must be con­ I have a minute to go, Mr. Campbell, ciliation by both sides. A system of go-slow and I want to thank the Chamber for the tactics, rolling strikes and other types of reception I have been given in dealing with strikes brought on to cause embarrassment is the Treasurer's Financial Statement. I have not a proper way of doing things. I am placed my remarks in a general way before sympathetic towards those who have a take­ the Treasurer for his consideration. He will home pay of £15 to £18. I think that find that in our examination of the Budget those employees form the majority of our we realise the problems confronting him. We "orking population. I feel sympathy for hope that on this occasion he will not lean them, because even with the last increase, towards the attitude that our remarks are the basic wage amounts to only £15. I purely critical. But we will not engage in understood that the Commission grant-=d that any approbation of the Government; it has increase because of the buoyancy of the its own members to do that sort of thing. I economy and its ability to bear such an am quite convinced that when this debate increase. conc!udes, the Treasurer will have much to say in defence of his record Budget for That increase was followed by a number 1964-65. of price rises in various commodities. It seems to be a rather invidious situation Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (2.31 p.m.): I have when the worker _is granted an increase, given a good deal of consideration to the because the economy of the country can Financial Statement, and I must congratulate stand it, and then has it whittled away by the Treasurer because he has presented us devious means. Not only are there price with a Budget that tends towards the develop­ rises; taxation is deducted, and even union ment of Queensland. As the Leader of the fees are raised. I have not the report with Opposition has just said, Queensland is a me now, but I read in the journal of the State with buoyant prospects. I believe that Miscellaneous Workers' Union that they, too, where we have this degree of buoyancy we had jumped on the band wagon and increased have to take cognisance of all factors in giving fees. Where is it to stop? There must be effect to our desires to continue with the some responsibility shown in this matter. industrial and cultural advancement of this State. I believe that the Budget as presented Mr. Newton: There is no conciliation; portrays the advancement of Queensland it is all arbitration. during the next 12 months. Mr. HUGHES: It is not for us to sit in I wish to deal rather fully with the free judgment on the matter of conciliation hospital system and some other aspects of between the parties. I believe that there is community life, and in particular I should responsibility among employers, and I hope like to deal with a matter raised by the Leader that Ministers also bring conciliation to of the Opposition, namely, industrial dis­ bear in administering their departments. I content. It seems rather hard to imagine that believe that much can be done bv solid men we would have any real degree of industrial logically facing facts across a table. A lot discontent in a State that has not only a of good can come from discussing things buoyant economy but also a high standard in such an atmosphere. Maybe there will of living. Whilst these are desirable features be disagreements, but I see no harm in such of any social system there will always be discussions. I hope that such a system is some demands for a greater measure of applied not only by employers but also by justice and fairness, and when these matters Ministers of the Crown. are treated in their proper perspective objec­ tiveiy, they should be listened to. When trade The Leader of the Opposition spoke of unions put forward cases objectively and what other States were doing in relation to with purpose, I believe it is the responsibility the cost of living. There is a consumer­ of those in authority to listen. I believe that price index for Queensland, and it can be problems can best be solved by conciliation compared with that of other States. I do 552 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

not know if this is always the best way to Mr. Ne"\'\'ion: The more you say, the more look at the matter. I sympathise with the you are backing up my argument. workers who have to go to the Industrial Commission for wage increases. No doubt Mr. HUGHES: That is all right. If we there are many ways in which this procedure could add more weight to the argument to could be ·streamlined. For example, when which we are jointly subscribing, I think there is an increase in the standard meal the workers would get a better go. While allowance, I understand that each union has to hon. members on this side of the Chamber lodge an application for it. It is a standard show that they are concerned with the prob­ amount covering all unions generally, and I lems of employment, the basic wage, take­ feel that ways and means should be found home pay, and the welfare of employees of cutting red tape, reducing costs, and generally, I think the community will respond facilitating arbitration procedure. I believe and continue to return a Country-Liberal that these things should be done to stabilise Government. We have earned our position in some way not only the economy but a"> a government. wages and costs generally. Mr. Windsor: We have done more in seven The cost of living and the consumer-price years than they did in 30 years. index is something of which I, with a number of people, have been making a Mr. HUGHES: As the hon. member for careful study since the hon. member for Bel­ Ithaca says, we have done more in seven mont took such an interest in this matter. years than Labour did in 30 years. The I think he should be commended for it, records prove that. Gone are the slums at although I do not agree with the figures he Victoria Park perpetuated by Labour Govern­ quoted in his speech. He said that it required ments. What do we find now? Beautiful £14 a week to keep a family of three in homes in beautiful suburbs. What a blot on thini!S used in the kitchen. I, and a number Labour's administration was the Victoria of other people who have studied the matter, Park housing camp. have found that it costs far less than that. Opposition Members interjected. It has to, because it could not cost more out of a take-home pay of £15 to £18 a week. Mr. HUGHES: I know that hon. members I think that manv women do a wonderful ,orposite hate to be reminded of these job to keep the house going, and pay rent embarrassing things. At the appropriate time ancl eJ,rtricitv bills. provide footwear, hair­ the community said, "We have had enough cuts, clothing, education expenses, and fares, of your maladministration", and, as the hon. out of such a sum. I do not know how they member for Ithaca said, in the last seven do it on this take-home pay. years the people have appreciated the skill and wisdom of the Ministry and the initiative Mr. Newton: I did not include rent in brought to the job by members on this side that. of the Chamber and have returned us to Mr. ffiTGliE§: That is right. The hon. office. We have earned our place. member confined it to food, and this did Mr. Graham: If it were not for Mr. Gair not include fish. I think he should pay and Santamaria, you would not be there. some attention to his statistics. If it You can thank "Santa". were not possible to do it on £14 a week, there would be many unclothed people Mr. HUGHES: The hon. member is filled in the community and many children unable with chagrin. Let us leave Santamaria to get to school. where he belongs. We were returned without Mr. Windsor: Some would have more if his aid; we were returned on merit. less were spent on booze before the pay Opposition Members interjected. envelope got home. Mr. HUGHES: I had the best win in Mr. HUGHES: The hon. member may be Brisbane at the last State election. I sug­ correct. That is a family matter. However, gest that the hon. member who keeps inter­ I think the only wav in which many families jecting should contest the seat against me. can survive is by the women going out to work and supplementin!l the budget. I know Let us return to what the Leader of the that "one man, one job" is union policy, Opposition said. He referred to the impor­ but I think many unionists are forced to tance of education and said that expenditure seek additional jobs to supplement the family in Queensland in 1956-57 was lower per income and meet the family's needs. Those head than it was in other States. He painted are my personal views on the matter. a dismal picture from a rather morbid point of view of education. A comparison would Mr. Newton: You should be on this side be odious to hon. members opposite, I know, of the Chamber. but I suggest that they look at the buildings that have beel1 provided by the present Mr. HUGHES: P~rhaps I should be, but Government and the improved curriculum members of the Country Party and the and teaching methods. I remind them, too, Liberal Partv are able not only to take an that we do not have quotas at our university. interest in their jobs but also to speak as their conscienc~s dictate, and I am on the Mr. Houston: I would not boast too much side of the worker. about that. Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 553

Mr. HUGHES: We can boast about it. I authorities themselves want it. They are am not unmindful of the possibility that paying for the services provided. With the more space will be needed to cope with exception of the rabbit tax and one or two the tidal wave of students now coming other small matters in which the Government through our schools and university as a is concerned the Valuer-General's Depart­ result of the very high birthrate in the post­ ment provides, I estimate, 98 per cent. of war period, and I agree that there may be its service solely for local-authority valua­ a need to alter the system because of this. tions. I think the local authorities would However, at the moment university students not only prefer to do the job but would do are enjoying every possible facility, and they it with more local interest and knowledge should continue to do so. and more satisfaction to the whole· com­ munity. I hope that this will be the last Mr. Houston: Who started the university? time I see expenditure for this section in Labour! the Treasurer's report on the Department of Local Government. Mr. HUGHES: What about the universities in States where Labour Governments are in I have not the time to go into these power? Quotas are applied there. The matters at length; I can touch on them only Queensland University is not merely the briefly. I now make some observations preserve of the rich or socialites. It is open relating to traffic matters. I feel that motor­ to the children of any man who desires to vehicle parking meters are essentially a local­ have them educated properly. We believe authority administrative responsibility in in this, and expenditure on education which I believe local authoriLes have proved increases year by year. It is to be increased their interest and in which they have done a this year by £2,500,000, and I ask hon. good job. There is no cavilling at that. The members to compare the facilities existing Traffic Engineer's office is the only section today with the ill-kept, dirty classrooms that in the Budget in which the:e has existed under Labour administrations. been a decrease in staff, from 35 to 29. Its appropriation has been reduced Mr. Houston interjected. from £81,500-odd in 1963-64 to £71,700-odd, a decrease of almost £10,000 in a field Mr. HUGHES: The hon. member went to which I believe we cannot do without and school, and so did I. I know he will agree in which I should like to see a greater degree with me that in the classrooms today there of interest. The volume of traffic on our is dignity for the individual and that students main highways is such that, if we do not are given every opportunity to learn in take steps now, we will find ourselves in surroundings that suit their needs. In this the position in which the authorities in regard, provision for hostel accommodation London found themselves in years past at the Blind and Deaf School is up by when traffic almost came to a halt. We must £6,500. That is a typical example. I face up to the fact that a survey is presently believe we have the answers and that the being undertaken. Of course, I do not know parents of this State will not give credence that a survey would produce any better to the morbid point of view put forward results than could be obtained by any one by the Leader of the Opposition. They know of us using common sense. I may be wrong the incentive is there and their children are in that assumption, but I feel that we are being educated to a stage where not only not approaching this problem in a manner the parents can be proud of them, but the that will produce the utmost in traffic facility State as well. We can be justly proud of with safety for both motorists and this accomplishment. pedestrians. Firstly, I believe that we should There are one or two aspects of the hand over parkatareas to the Brisbane Ci+y Financial Statement on which I should like Council, which controls parking meters in to make some comment. The first relateg the inner city area. Last year this Govern­ to the Department of Local Government. ment, which is so generous to the local city I notice that there has been an increase in council, handed ov~r £6,000,000 in loans and the number of staff as well as a £23,000 subsidies to the Brisbane City Council-a increase in the amount budgeted for the higher amount than ever before. If we are to Valuer-General's Departmrnt. This appears continue this system of subsidy for such to me to be empire-building in the Public works as the widening of arteries and the Service. Hon. members have heard me on truncation of corners, the council is the this subject before. Personally, I should appropriate responsible body because it is prefer to do away with this department a constructing authority. As a Government, altogether and allow the valuation of land we are not eqnipped to do these thiTJgs. The in local-authority areas to be undertaken by Main Roads Department has certain equip­ the authorities themselves, who this year ment but it is used on main roads away from will be called upon to pay a £14.000 increace the city. in cost. The hon. member for Townsville South agrees with me, as does the hon. The Minister for Main Roads should take member for Redcliffe. I see nods of approval a second look at this matter. If it is to everywhere I look and I am quite sure be the policy to continue to denude the that if a poll of members were taken on department of staff and pare the dPmrt­ such a proposal it would be carried almost ment's maintenance expenditure, I believe unanimously. In addition, I think the local there should be a conference with the 554 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Brisbane City Council, related to the present Let me deal with the railways. Here survey being undertaken, to enable the is a flower that the Treasurer can wear with council to take over in a widely extended more pride than the one which presently field the provision of traffic arteries, which adorns his buttonhole. The Minister for the ever-increasing volume of traffic Transport would have every justification for demands. Recently I have asked questions presenting a budget with pride because he has in this Chamber about the widening of been able to achieve a state of administration Fairfield Road. If the council continues whe1eby there is a difference o£ only with its present plans it will be goodness £30,000 between expected revenue and knows how many years before the road expenditure. We must remember the millions is widened or there is any new road to of pounds that went down the drain owing take the increased volume of traffic to and to the maladministration of a political party from the new markets area. Surely we do not wedded to a socialistic form of enterprise have to wait for deaths and injuries from as distinct from a free-enterprise system traffic accidents before the council does the which must give service and pay its way. jcb. The Minister closed some branch lines, Mr. Newton interjected. but he has been able to present figures to the Chamber of expenditure and revenue which Mr. HU:GHES: There are many roads in reveal that, instead of several million pounds a similar condition. Irrespective of the being lost, the books are almost balanced, political colour of the council, there has and we can put that money into free hospitals always been a limitation on the amount and other facilities which are a credit to the that can be spent in this direction. State. I believe there is an obvious need for Opposition Members interjected. at least two new hospitals in Brisbane. Mr. Bennett: They tell me you spoke up Mr. HUGHES: Hon. members opposite for Jack Aboud last night. should not start waving political flags. I could talk for hours about the city council. I was an alderman for six years. Maybe the Mr. HUGHES: He is a spent force. C.M.O. did not do all it could, but it did The submissions I desire to make on behalf not blow out the council's brains by sacking of our citizens deal generally with hospitals. its technical officers. It did not sack 2,000 My call is for a new hospital to meet the workers. It did not put people with families urgent need created by the spectacular on the breadline. "The friends of the iHcrease in population and development on worker," my eye! If Labour members put the south side of the river. There has been themselves behind an X-ray they would see a tremendous population explosion with the something that would make them shudder siting of new residences, and the great indus­ for the rest of their lives. They should hang trial developments will throw a greater strain their heads in shame. The hon. member on an already over-taxed Princess Alexandra for Belmont has excited me to the extent Hospital. The Government should pursue a that I must remind him of some of his party's searching fact-finding survey, in co-operation acts of maladministration. "The friends of with the authorities concerned, to ascertain the worker," they say! All that the workers our hospital needs now, and in the future, could come home with were long faces and the type, location and size of a new and empty pockets. Maybe with our hospital. Time should not be wasted, because extended education programme and the if the Government were to make a decision expenditure of many more millions of now it would be five to seven years before pounds, in time we will be able to educate the people so that instead of getting about the hospital was established. Plans should 60 per cent of the votes we will get 90 be well publicised so that we may get the per cent. advice and help of all interested parties. I believe that action should be taken now. I There are many things I could inform the am not suggesting that absolutely nothing has Committee about. The council has never been done. There have been advances in recovered from Labour's maladministration. medical science as well as in the free-hospital Any man of decency, integrity and dignity system. I know that certain research may who desires to serve the community thinks take a long time. Even though research is firstly, ~econdly, thirdly, fourthly, and fifthly, continuing, there is need for a positive plan and then does not go to the council anyway. and approach to hospitals. Even if approval If I were the hon. member for Belmont I was given immediately, much time would would retreat as gracefully as possible after elapse before a hospital was functioning. We being torn to shreds on that point. must remember that time is one thing that we Mr. Bennett interjected. cannot manufacture. We cannot turn back the clock. Once time is lost it is gone Mr. HUGHES: It is nice to see the hon. forever. We should take action now rather member for South Brisbane in the Chamber. than later, when we will regret that so much l was sorry he was not here to back me up time has passed. for a new Victoria Bridge. I hope that in his speech he will suggest we give more Mr. Bennett: Tell us about Opal House in money to the council and get another bridge. your electorate. Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 555

Mr. HUGHES: I will not mention Opal subject to human error, the same as anything House. I will be kind to the hon. member else. Doctors do make mistakes. In fact, and not mention it. I have been a supporter my wife has received a better service from of Opal House, even though it is not in the public hospitals than she has from some Kurilpa electorate. It is in the electorate of private doctors. Whilst we may have some the hon. member for South Brisbane, but that complaints, out of the probable 213,000 cases hon. member is not aware of it. It requires treated the number of complaints would the help and assistance of every responsible represent probably ·005 per cent. We seldom member of the community. I hope the hon. hear about patients who have had their limbs member for South Brisbane is supporting it. or lives saved by the wonders of surgery and the miracles of medicine performed daily Much has been said about the free-hospital in our hospitals. A knowledge of these things system, and I intend to deal with it in much would quell any singular discontent that broader detail. is raised. I have a feeling that it is raised more for political purposes than in a genuine Mr. Newton interjected. desire to have remedial action taken for the benefit of our hospital system. Is any system Mr. HUGHES: I will tell the hon. member that is organised and controlled by man in good time. perfect? At Chermside we have a cardiac unit that The growth of population and medical hos been in existence for only six months. advances, show the need for a more active There, people who almost die by virtue of and positive planning for new hospitals in surgery live again. Tremendous miracles are the immediate future. The social and being performed there and in other hospitals economic situation suggests that representa­ d;;ily, and I pay tribute-I believe well-earned tives of voluntary organisations, the Govern­ tribute-to many of our doctors. My wife ment, and businesses, must be prepared to is presently an inmate of the Cherms!cle make major and positive moves in the hos­ Chest Hospital, and I have been able to pital field in the next few years. World make a comparison between it and some authorities believe that the best hospital o'her hospitals. I think that that hospital system is based on 7 · 5 beds per 1,000 people. would stand up to manv in the world. I On the basis of a population of 1,000,000 have not travelled the 'world, but I have we. should have 7,500 beds in Brisbane to done a tremendous amount of reading in cope with our needs in future years. Although preparing this speech. I have read about we have a considerable number of beds in the World Health Organisation in Geneva the community, they are overtaxed at the and the various health authorities in England, moment. America and Europe. I have also spoken to The Minister for Health, in a statement people who have travelled the world. I say in "Sunday Truth" of 14 September, said that our Chermside hospital compares that this Government is not simply paying favourably with any hospital in the world, lip service to the system of free hospitals; not only in the manner in which it is con­ it is extending it. That is absolutely true. ducted, but also in relation to the medical In 1957 there were 10,550 hospital beds in marvels that are performed there daily. Queensland. Now there are over 12,000, These are the things we must pay tribute ·to. whilst the number of patients treated rose from 194,068 to 213,410. The Canossa I have read the annual reports over the Hospital has 180 new beds, and the Mt. years of the Princess Alexandra Hospital. Olivet Hospital also has a large number of We find from the statistics that in 1959-60 new beds. total in-patients were 21,177, and in 1963-64 they were 25,491. Out-patients attending A greater degree of eagerness is being clinics and casualty department increased generated in the private sector of the com­ munity in building hospitals. I feel that this from 176,330 in 1959-60 to 224,513 in 1963- ties in to a great extent with what I am 64. Those figures indicate how taxed have about to say. There is a need for dove­ been the facilities of this hospital. I believe tailing our reserves with Governmental plan­ that on many occasions it has overcrowded ning. We should retain this hospital system. wards because there may be an epidemic of This also should blow away the myth that urti or some other infection in the com­ we would throw overboard the free-hospital munity, and the hospital suddenly is faced system. We have not done so. We have with a flood of in-patients. It is not administered the system on a basis that has geared to take them. There is growing been acceptable to 99 · 9 per cent. of the community. That stimulates the benefit to suburban development and a population the hospitals. The Princess Alexandra explosion on the south side, together with Hospital has about 640 beds. I have had great industrial development. Companies are some personal experience with that hospital; moving to Rocklea and the new markets have I have visited my wife there and I have also been established in this area, with the atten­ visited friends on manv occasions. I believe d2.nt possibility of industrial accidents further that the service given by that hospital is not taxing the facilities of the hospital. only one that is appreciated by the public, but in the main it is also a good system. A Governm~nt Member: What about Mayb<' it will never be perfect. It is always motor-car accidents? 556 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. HUGHES: Yes, and also motor-car the call made on the hospital by the public. accidents, which are increasing because of the Complaints would represent approximately growing volume of motor vehicles using a · 005 of the hundreds of thousands of cases roadway system created 30 years ago and treated. Little is heard of the medical unable to cope with present needs. marvels that are accomplished. I know that Because of these things the Princess the kitchen probably could not cope with Alexandra Hospital is overtaxed and fre­ an increase in the number of beds, quite quently has overcrowded wards. However, apart from the capacity of the X-ray depart­ in spite of this I do not think that anyone ment and the operating theatre. I am not has gone without the medical treatment going into detail on this subject; time will which he may have needed. not permit me to do so. However, instead of planning to extend the Princess Alexandra Statistics contained in the annual report Hospital from 646 beds to 1,000 beds-! of the Princess Alexandra Hospital show have had an opportunity of looking at cer­ yearly increases in the X-ray department. The tain plans-I think we should build smaller record for 1962-63 states- general hospitals to treat both in-patients and "Nearly 1,000 separate examinations out-patients farther out in the community. were handled each week and every day 500 The hon. member for Belmont will take films were sorted, checked and diagnosed." greater interest now, because I believe that there is a need for a hospital to meet the The annual report of the hospital states­ requirements of the residents of Wynnum, "Breakdowns in vital X-ray equipment Belmont, and Mt. Gravatt, where the popula­ were a weekly occurrence because of the tion has increased considerably through the severe work load." work of the Housing Commission. There The total number of patient visits, excluding should also be a hospital in the Inala or micro-radiography patients, was 43,237. The Oxley area, and probably one on the north total of micro-radiography patients was side. 26,144, making a grand total of 69,381. The total number of exposures for 43,237 Mr. Dean: There should be one at Sand­ patient visits and for 47,258 examinations was gate. 122,468. Although these figures may tend to bore some hon. members, I think it Mr. HUGHES: I have not studied the necessary to state them to develop my sub­ north side. The hon. member can put for­ missions. ward whatever case he sees fit. I am put­ ting a case for the people of Kurilpa and The work of the hospital is reflected in the people of the south side generally. The the summary of work undertaken by the pathology department. The figures are as hon. member for Sherwood has taken a follows:- great interest in hospitals and has been able to secure some hospital facilities in his Bacteriology 190,378 electorate, but we need more hospitals with a Biochemistry 72,643 capacity of 300 to 400 beds. Haematology 151,903 Singual Pathology 34,538 In my opinion, there is justification for Morbid Anatomy 18,916 requesting the Government to appoint a survey and research team to plan the siting Opposition Members interjected. and building of new hospitals to cater for Mr. HUGHES: I point out that I am not the developing needs of the community, both speaking of "morbid" members of the now and in the future. Unless action is Australian Labour Party. taken now, I am sure that we will live to regret it. The economics of the situation are The breakdown of the equipment under probably the most important factor, and I severe work loads is outlined in the report. think I should say something about costs. I do not think that this is any reflection The daily cost of in-patient care, as shown on the administration of the hospital. The in the annual report of the Princess Alex­ equipment was designed and installed to cope andra Hospital, has risen from £4 2s. 7d. in with the needs of a hospital of a certain 1959 to £5 1s. 8d. in 1963-64, and this bed number and size, and is now providing excludes the cost of interest and redemption medical services for a greater number than that should be added. The total cost of was envisaged in the original design. treating an in-patient has risen from Mr. Bennett: Do you say that the accom­ £68 11s. lld. in 1959 to £77 16s. ld. last modation is overtaxed? year. The average cost of out-patient treat­ ment is £3 12s. All these thinQ'S should be Mr. HUGHES: On many occasions, yes. borne in mind when we wonder why it is This is caused, for example, by a virus infec­ difficult to maintain a free-hospital system. tion raging in the community. That can It really comes back to wise and capable happen in any hospital in the world. We administration. Queensland's free-h('snital should now be planning for the building of svstem is the envy of all other Amtr,Jian new hospitals in the immediate future. States, manv of whic'h have probl~ms I think that it is to the credit of Dr. relatin!l" to hospitals that thev have not b~en Powell and his staff that they have been able to ov~rcome. Wh"n I hPar the cruing able to cope, with such little complaint, with and wailing at the wall of hon. members Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 557 opposite about the closure of a branch line Mr. HUGHES: If they wish to do so there from Bullamakanka to Woop Woop that is nothing in the constitution to prevent them. may be losing £10,000 or £15,000 a year More hospitals are being built, but I found and is being replaced by a more modern ser­ from personal experience that I could get vice that will provide better facilities for better treatment from some doctors in the the community, I wonder why they do not free-hospital system than from some G.P.'s. remember the cost of our free-hospital I will not mention names; that is my personal scheme. I ask them this question: would opinion. However, if they want to do it they rather have schemes to which they are as a business enterprise they should dovetail socialistically wedded, including non-paying their activities and costs with those relating branch lines, or a free~hospital scheme? The to the general overall plan in the community. choice has to be made in the light of the Some people are .making a profit out of economics of the situation. being in hospital. If they are in a medical Mr. Newton: It has not assisted the benefits fund and one of the family goes into pensioners. a free hospital bed maintained and paid for by this State they often make a profit from Mr. HUGHES: The pensioners get free the medical benefits payment. passes. They have received more generous Mr. Bromley: You have been wrongly treatment from this Government than they informed there. have ever had before. When pensions were reduced, they were reduced by Labour Mr. HUGHES: I am not wrongly informed. Governments. If the hon. member will Many of my friends have had that experience. accept a word from the wise, he will do I know of one person in Kurilpa who got a much more listenitJg and less talking. This cheque for £100 after being in a free hospital is about the third time this afternoon that bed. he has had to hang his head in shame. Mr. Bromley: How long ago? In relation to hospital costs, let me quote from the annual report of Prince Mr. HUGHES: Not very long ago. As Henry's Hospital, Melbourne, for 1963-64. It recently as five days ago I heard of one says- cheque for £26 for 22 days spent in a "For too long the financing of public public hospital bed. Why doesn't the hon. hospitals has not been looked squarely in member get his facts straight before he the face. It has always been recognised, speaks? That is why he goes wrong so often. and accepted, that efficient forms of private There should be re-thinking in this regard. enterprise are good for the economy of the I do not think it is right that a person should country and its people, and no one has make a profit as a result of being in a public ever yet claimed that a private organisation hospital bed that is paid for by the State. hampered by a lack of funds is an efficient Possibly it is a form of insurance purchased organisation. But public hospitals are by the insurer, but I feel that that money expected to maintain and even increase should go into the hospital system. However, efficiency by the adoption of all the latest that is something for other authorities than techniques and advances of medical science myself. That is a mere passing observation. and still cope with mounting bank over­ I think there is good reason for retaining drafts. the free-hospital system. One of the great "Some day the problem will have to be institutions of our society represents both a resolved. Why not now? problem and a promise. It is the general "The community served by the public hospital. The fine general hospital with its hospitals--and it consists of the bulk of almost incredible scientific and human the entire population-cannot escape its resources has the ability to perform miracles responsibility in this direction. Everybody which not so long ago could not even be wants a first-class health service, and a fantasied. The Director of the Montefiare first-class service can never be provided­ Hospital, New Y ark City, DT. Martin ad infinitum-at 'cut rates.' One way or Cherkesky, said- the other, be it by the direct method of "The developments in biochemistry, higher fees or the indirect method of taxa­ automation, electronics, telemetering, tion, the cost of the first -class service miniaturisation, and so on, will produce demanded can only be met by those who great boons for mankind. I have touched want the protection of that service, and on the promise; what then is the problem? that means all of us." There are really several problems. The Here in Queensland we enjoy a hospital quality of all general hospitals is not system which is the envy of all other States equally good, and there are far too many in Australia, yet I believe it is hampered that do not even meet the minimal to some extent by this economic influence standard for accreditation." and background. He said that in 1960 there were 1,500,000 admissions to accredited hospitals in the Mr. Walsh: Getting back to private enter­ linited States. That year 40 of 46 proprietary prise, do you think that private doctors should hospitals in New York City were build their own hospitals? unaccredited. 558 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

The matter of where hospitals should go between the unfelt need below the surface and the services they are to provide should and the overt demand above the water level dovetail in with an overall plan. Certain is not sharp and clearcut because there is an minimum requirements should be met. I irregular and varying band of need which will not go into this matter at length as is felt but is not translated into a demand. time will not permit me. As many of these As I said in the first few words, this was hospitals are teaching hospitals, unless they seen within the first few years of the health dovetail in and provide proper and necessary service in England when the need for treat­ services I believe they would leave some ment, which had been previously held back vacuums in growing communities. The by financial barriers, was released. With the example I have given should be a recomfuen­ removal of any economic hindrance to dation in itself for the continuation of our medical care, these pent-up demands settled free-hospital system. down into a fairly steady annual rate. As one looks at the developments in medi­ I quote now from "Studies in the Spectrum cine it is clear that the general hospital, which of Medical Care", which states- already is the hard core of medical care, "The burden of chronic sickness i,n will and should become even more the centre later life is reflected in the consultation for all medical-care services-preventive, rates for men over 45 which increased diagnostic, therapeutic-whether they be by half, and which for women over 65 public or private medical services. The were twice as great as for men under 45. complexity of medicine, the costly instru­ The cost for these elderly women was mentation and facilities needed, and more three times as much as for children up importantly the demands for trained and to age 15." skilled personnel, make the hospital the right locale for all kinds of medical-care services. In North America, it is suggested in the I am wedded to the system we have. I am "Lancet" that house calls have declined by putting forward these submissions because over 40 per cent. in the past five years, and apart from the out-patients' treatment which that one-third of those house calls were should be made available at some of our unnecessary. A rather pithy comment of hospitals I believe there is a need at the American opinions can be found in these Princess Alexandra Hospital for a maternity examples- section to cope with the local need, even "Modern medicine cannot be practised though the Mater Hospital provides a from a little black bag." wonderful service. There is certainly a real "If the patient is too sick to leave the need for a children's hospital to be associated house he should be in hospital: if he is with the Princess Alexandra Hospital. If not that sick he should make it to the there is to be on the part of the department office." this policy of extending our hospital buildings I believe they should be extended along the More children's diseases are being treated at lines I have suggested to provide the maxi­ home rather than in hospital as in days mum facilities and services to the community gone by. Sanitoriums and tuberculosis clinics generally. have less and less demand on them because of science and medical skill. I am Mr. Aikens: Have you discussed this with relating all these facts in support of the Minister for Health? the argument that we should get on now with the job of surveying and planning to Mr. HUGHES: I hope he reads and puts extend our hospital system by building two into effect what I have suggested to meet new hospitals, one in the immediate future the needs of the community. If he does on the south side to cater for the local need that I think we will all benefit. which has manifested itself and also to I believe that the role of all health expendi­ cope with the growing demand which the ture in the whole economy is shown by relat­ industrial development on the south side will ing the sum of capital development and cur­ precipitate to tax and strain the existing rent operating expenditure on health services facilities of our hospitals. to the gross national expenditure of each In providing these new ho~pitals we must country. It is obvious that a hospital can provide for children's sections and also for only give service within the limits of its outpatients care. There is an opportunity budget. It is obvious that from time to for us to study what has taken place over­ time hospital boards' budgets have been seas. Current emphasis in California on pruned. Whatever the form of governmental regional planning for hospitals has grown intervention, the obvious trend is for more out of stresses which have come from rapid of the taxpayers' money to be used directly in the financing of medical-care programmes. advances in medical science coupled with This was emphasised in the report I read to particularly rapid population growth. They the Chamber. had their problems in this matter, too, because in the metropolitan Los Angeles I spoke earlier about the need of the area, from 1950 to 1961, 97 new hospitals private sector. This applied in England in were built. All but eight of these were the pre-nationalisation of medicine days. The smaller than 150-bed hospitals and all but need was felt but there was no demand. In 19 were smaller than 100 beds. I believe Queensland, however, the need appears to that this experience applies equally to have settled to a known regular rate. In the Queensland. Let us not have another picture of the iceberg of disease, the line Princess Alexandra Hospital extending to Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 559

1,000 beds. Let us have an atmosphere or In May, 1963, a child guidance cllnic was personality about our hospitals. To my mind, opened in Toowoomba. I have no argument keeping them as 1 ,OOO·bed hospitals makes with that, because I am in complete agreement them impersonal. Those are the hospitals with the establishment of these very desirable where there can be adminis:rative failure, amenities anywhere outside the metropolitan where there can be a lack of service. This is area; but, representing Townsville North, I displayed to a great extent by having too am also very interested in seeing that we hig a hospital with too many staff. get those amenities in the North. At the opening of the child guidance clinic in A Government Member: Don't you agree Toowoomba in May, 1963, the then Minister with centralisation? for Health, Dr. Noble, stated-and I quote Mr. HUGHES: I agree with meeting the from the annual report of the Welfare and needs. They will not be satisfactorily met Child Guidance Clinics for the year ended by another Princess Alexandra Hospital. 30 June, 1963- The needs will be more adequately met and "Similar units to that being built at the we will give better service to the public Brisbane Children's Hospital would be con­ by going out in the suburbs and building stmcted at Toowoomba, Townsville, and two or more hospitals. ultimately at Rockhampton." Mr. Davies: What is the maximum size for That was in May, 1963. Another year has these ho'pitals? passed, and we seem to have got no farther Mr. HUGHES: Who can say'? A good in this direction. Now the Budget shows no basis is 7 · 5 beds to each 1,000 of the p:·ovision again this year, so, unless some­ population. It appears that a 600-bed thing extraordinary happens in the next few hospital is an ideal size to administer. The months, it must mean that we have another Princess Alexandra Hospital systems are year with the lack of this very much needed taxed to the fullest extent in the X-ray clinic in Townsville. department, the operating theatres and My voice is not the only one that has been the kitchens. Let us build hospitals of raised on behalf of the children of North the 200/300-bed type rather than the Queensland. In about April or May of this 600-bed type. In that way we will vear a number of public-spirited citizens in not only provide for the medical needs Tcwnsville banded together to point out the but will also prove that we have a heartfelt very strong need for such a clinic in Towns­ appreciation of the problems. In order to ville. The guiding light was Dr. Vie Henry, have an effective hospital we must act now a child specialist in Townsville. He is a very because an administrative decision does not humane and dedicated man, and he, with mean that overnight we will have a others, pointed out the great necessity for functioning utility. We have to get on having a child guidance and welfare clinic with this job now. I am not saying that in Townsville. So great was their advocacy nothing is being done. Undoubtedly research that they were able to convince the Mayor is being undertaken. I am sure that all o;' Townsville of the need for supporting any the authorities concerned with this problem moves to establish a clinic in Townsville, to see the need in the immediate future for the extent that he convened a public meeting publicising a plan that calls for general 011 Tuesday, 2 June, 1964. That meeting community comment on the needs not only received tremendous support from all sections now but also in the future. I could quote of the community in Townsville. A repr~'sen­ Dr. Harvey Gushing, a pioneer surgeon and tative committee called the Townsville Child philosopher of medicine, who spoke of the Guidance Committee was set up. It was "personality" of the hospital. To get the representative of the whole community. A best in service, courtesy, and consideration. petition was circulated, and 3,000 public­ besides the surgeon's knife there must be spirited Townsville citizens signed it. This ''personality" in a hospital, and that will work was done by community leaders, come, in my opinion, only by establishing doctors, clergymen, magistrates, police smaller types of hospitals. Let us heed officers, social workers, representatives of the these words. Let us do something now. Sub-Normal Children's Welfare Association, (Time expired.) tbe Crippled Children's Association, and women's organisations. There were also many Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (3.31 others. There was tremendous support from p.m.): One of my first reactions when I the community in Townsville for the estab­ received the Financial Statement and the lishment of a welfare and guidance clinic. Estimates of the Treasurer in presenting the Budget was to look immediately to see This petition was presented to the Minister whether provision had been made this year by a delegation on 3 July, 1964. The Rev. for a child welfare and guidance clinic in John Sabel, Dr. Vie. Henry and Mrs. Alien Townsville. No provision has been made this came to see the Minister and presented this year for the establishment of this very neces­ petition to him on that date. We have no sary adjunct to the Townsville _Hospital. I argument with the way in which they were emphasize "very necessary", and I have been received. The Minister received them well, advocating the establishment of this clinic listened to what they had to say, and com­ since I entered Parliament in 1960. To date plimented them on its presentation. He then, I have done so without avail. of course, said that shortage of staff was the 560 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply restraining force and that for that reason basis. I have mentioned Dr. Henry; Dr. a clinic would not be established in Towns­ Richards is another psychiatrist; Dr. Scott at ville in the near future. the university has also given of his time in I do not believe that the Government has trying to assist young people. But the task made every possible effort in this direction. confronting them at the moment is obviously It is all very well to say that there is a short­ beyond them, and it should not be forgotten age of staff, but year after year passes and that the facilities in Brisbane about which l surely this shortage is going to be overcome spoke a moment ago are 1,000 miles away at some time. We were prepared to accept from North Queensland. This obviously that perhaps that might have been the isolates very effectively the majority of the position a couple of years ago, but when children in the North who need help. years pass we become disturbed and feel Statistics prove that there must be a that the Government is not making the certain percentage of children who need help, efforts that it should in this direction. but many of them are economically isolated I a:n going to support that statement by right from the start because of the money referrmg to a report that I have here. Bris­ required to meet travelling expenses and the bane is much better served with welfare and cost of accommodation in Brisbane. No one guidance clinics than is any other part of the can convince me that it is true to say, "These State. I have here the annual report of the facilities are available in Brisbane, they welfare and guidance clinics for the year should be used by the children of North ended 30 June, 1963. It reports on the Queensland." I think I have demonstrated operations of a number of centres in Bris­ convincingly that ordinary working-class bane. Mention is made of the Mary Street people cannot afford to bring their children Welfare and Guidance Clinic. On the inside to Brisbane, and, as there are no facilities the Brisbane Children's Hospital Child Guid­ available in Townsville, they have to make do ance Clinic is referred to. There is then a as best they can. reference to the Wooloowin Children's If facilities are necessary in Brisbane-I Ho:ne ~nd .t~e Wilson Youth Hospital Out­ believe they are, and I bel;eve that those patients Clime. On the back is mentioned involved are very dedicated, hard-working the number of out-patients attending the Wil­ people making a worth-while contribution to son Youth Hospital, and there is ilso refer­ the welfare of the community-why should ence to services provided to kindergartens, we not have them in the North? It is the con­ cht;r~~es, homes, etc., and to teaching viction of the people of Townsville and North activities. Queensland that this is a long-standing and It then says with a certain amount of urgent need. We believe that if the Govern­ pri.de, as well it might, that interviews in the ment thinks that the problem of child delin­ Bnsbane area totalled 18,940. Psvchiatrists quency should be tackled, this is one useful psvchologists, social workers, medical con: way of tackling it. I say quite frankly that sultants, speech therapists and occupational I believe it is an indictment on the Govern­ therapists carried out a grand total of 18 940 ment that it will pander to one part of the interviews dnring the year ended 30 J~ne State-the report to which I referred shows 1963. It will probably be a larger numbe; the number of facilities available in Brisbane this year. The point that I make is that -and do nothing for the other parts. The those interviews were in an area with a Government has ignored the needs of distant population of some 750.000 people. There areas of Queensland, and I believe that these are in the North, speaking of North Queens­ facilities are so urgently needed in the North land and not merely the area around Towns­ tbat the Government should provide them ville. approximatelv 250,000 people. It is even if it is at the expense of some othe; project. I say very sincerely that if we can the:~f?re reasonable to sav that if similar set one child's feet on the right road we will facilities had been available in Nnrth QuE'en

How stupid of the interjector! I suppose he mentioned nothing about the Proserpine area is the kind of fellow who would say of nor did I mention the hon. member, but if penicillin, "It is only a recent innovation. We he is prepared to go into the ring and break should get it in Brisbane but do not let the a lance I, too, am prepared to enter it and rest of the State have it." It is the duty of break a lance with him. He took me to task the Government to see that these facilities by asking what I knew about sugar. Appar­ are available to the whole of the people of ently he said that I was not born on the land. Queensland and not just to one section of But neither was he. His father was a railway them. engine-driver, and a very good one. There­ I am very pleased to have received that fore he cannot say that he was born and interjection because it highlighted what I was bred on the land. In any case, that is all trying to say and obviously shows the thinking irrelevant when one is trying to remedy an of the Government and its members in these injustice. Does he mean to say that nobody matters. The hon. member for Kurilpa should rise in his seat unless he is an expert will probably hang his head and go outside on the business before the Chamber? If just as he claimed a moment ago the hon. that were so, many members on the Govern­ member for Belmont should do when he ment side would never rise because they interjected while the hon. member for Kurilpa are not experts on anything. was speaking. After all, this is an industry which was We would be adequately repaid for our sponsored to bring about northern coastal endeavours if we could put even one child's settlement, but now the Central Sugar Cane feet on the right road, and if we could do Prices Board is permitting the acquisition of something for children before they reach the cane farms by large interests. Those with stage where they cannot be redeemed. Of an already huge assignment have been given course, once they reach that stage the only more. They do not really need these bigger thing left is to put them away in some gaol. assignments. But if we do something for them early we The hon. member for Whitsunday can be can do much to assist them. What member included in this criticism for allowing these on the Government side would assert that I big interests to grow bigger. In his own area am wrong in saying that we should get this of Proserpine the big interests have taken facility in the North? over to such an extent that there are now 100 fewer suppliers to the Proserpine mill We have already raised a considerable than five years ago. That shows how these sum in the North for sub-normal and crippled big interests are taking over, contrary to what children. Quite recently we conducted an we believe should have been the plan to appeal for sub-normal children and I received settle the coastal areas of the State. He a letter some days ago stating that at that would have been better off looking after the time it would appear that the sub-normal roads in his area. I think they are the worst children's centre in Townsville would receive roads between Coolangatta and Cooktown. something like £8,000 from the appeal. It Rather than attacking me he would have is no good saying that we are not prepared been better off co-operating with his shire to help ourselves in these matters. We are. council in doing something about his own Many young people would benefit if we area. could have established in Townsville or else­ Since I spoke here last on this subject I where in North Queensland a welfare and have travelled many hundreds of miles and guidance clinic. I should say Townsville spoken to scores of people about the new would be the appropriate place because it is cane assignments. I want to be responsible the heart of North Queensland. It is about about this. I say quite frankly that there are time the Government pulled its weight and those who had no possible chance of an provided this service. assignment in the first place but who want to yell "stinking .fish" because they missed I wish to speak again today on the recent out. I try to be responsible when I meet cane assignments. It will be remembered these people and point out that the reason that I attacked the issue of these assignments they missed out is glaringly obvious. during the Address-in-Reply debate and the Minister, in reply, virtually intimated that I have heard many allegations about rorts everything in the garden was rosy. If he and rackets and maladministration within the believes that, he is completely off the beam industry, particularly in connection with the and does not know what is going on in his recent assignments. I want to be charitable own electorate or in any other part of this afternoon. I firmly believe that the Queensland. whole matter was badly handled by the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board. Surely I was attacked by the hon. member for the investigating committee should have been Whitsunday on this subject. I am not told to work to some plan when they went complaining, because that is his prerogative. out to investigate. Surely that is a reasonable He attacked me for daring to criticise submission. If you were given a job to do prematurely the specially appointed experts. by some authority, Mr. Baxter, would you Surely criticism on a factual basis to remedy not ask those who sent you out how you injustice to applicants, caused by preference would work? Possibly you would ask being given to unworthy applicants, is not whether you would work on a points system, premature. Just as he attacked me, he allotting so many points for this and so cannot deny me the right to attack him. I many points for that. 562 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I do not think there can be cny argument must understand that, because of this present about this. Surelv some method should have stupid method-I am not saying how it was been laid down by the Central Sugar Cane done-these charges are laid, and that is why Pr'~"s no"rd for this investigating com­ people look at him. I am not saying that mittee. Some weeks ago I asked the Minister anything improper took place. I am merely whether that was so. I asked whether there using his case as a perfect example of mal­ was in fact a points system that they worked administration and stupidity in handling this to. Did they allot so many points for suit­ matter. ability of the land, so many points for the fact that the land was close to transport, Mr. Camm: You are not using me. You so many points because the applicant had a are relying on the privilege of this Chamber title to the land and so many points for the to use the members of my family. You keep fact that he had capital available? Surely it out of this. If I start on your family you should have been -decided by some sys+em do not know where I will finish. such as I have outlined. I cannot see that Mr. TUCKER: I do not remember the hon. anyone could argue against my submissio_;"ls. member rising to his feet when a question was As the hon. member for Whitsunday said, asked by the hon. member for Aspley about there were some 3,000 or 4,000 applicants for ]l;[r. Bromley's mother. He was silent on these assignments. I have letters confirming that occasion. What is wrong with him now? that statement. Only 1,000 of the 3,000 Doesn't he like it when he gets a taste of his anplica,ts could be successful. How were own medicine? This is only an example of the 1,000 determined? If some method was what I am talking about. If he elects to shut laid down, surely the investigating committee h's eyes and ears to what is being said that is was not so lucky as to be able to pick out his lookout. I am using this case as an the 1,000 immediately and discard the others. example to show why everybody in that area Surely it is reasonable to think that about is disquieted and disgruntled by the fact that 1,500 would come into the category laid this was not done in a correct, proper and down. I ask how the committee conld pick equitable manner. If the hon. member is out the 1.000 from the 1,500. I asked the going to argue about it, good luck to him; I Minister if they had a ballot, and he said cannot help it. There are others in the th<"V c1iiJ not. That leaves a doubt as to Proserpine area who are in the same position. how they eventually arrived at the 1,000. I Others have written about their sons and asked if the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board nephews not getting assignments, but they accepted the recommendations of the investi­ s2y, "My land was better than theirs; I was gating committee and the Minister said that it cioser to transport than they were; I have the did not do so in all cases. This is in "Hansard" capital and title. Why didn't I get an assign­ for everyone to see. ment?" I cannot answer that question because I was not able to find out from anybody Why wasn't there a ballot? When we are concerned what principles were laid down in on a touchy subject in our committees we the granting of assignments. When the submit to a ballot so that later on the claim Central Board continues to do that type of of "racket and rort" cannot be made. Why thing, there must be this feeling of disquiet is that not done by those who are supposed everywhere. to know the industry backwards and to understand the people involved and their At the invitation of the Home Hill branch heart-burnings? That would have been the of the Australian Labour Party I visited fairest system. It would have removed any !hat area last Thursday and moved through doubt. It. There would be many in this Chamber who know of these cases because they were The hon. member for Whitsunday said that submitted through the various Ministers to only one applicant in three or four was the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board. There successful. That appears to be true from all are . men like Caspanello, Papale, Jack the correspondence I have received and from Dav1es, Mr. Oates, Mr. Klaka and Mr. Kelly. the replies from the Board. I cite the hon. member's case as a perfect example in I had only one day in which to get Whitsunday. Although only one in three or around these places, but in many cases I four was successful, both his son and his found that the land surrounding these areas son-in-law were successful. I am using that was growing sugar cane. In the case of a8 an example because, after all, he started Jack Davies, he had a beautiful flat piece it. I am showing why the people in his area of land, with the tramway running right immediately raised their eyebrows and started through the centre, and on each of his getting worried. They said, "Many of us boundaries there was sugar cane, yet he was were not successful. How could he take two not able to get an asoignment. When I tricks out of two?" I am not making any asked him why he could not get an assign­ allegations. I am only using his argument ment he said, "I don't know. I cannot find against himself and pointing out how this has out." How, then, can anybody talk to that been brought on his head by the maladminis­ fellow in a reasonable way and say that it tration and stupidity of the Central Board. was right to knock him back when others If there had been a ballot, nobody could around him have been given assignments? have pointed a finger at him had he been I was also taken past places where men successful. People would have said, "He with peaks of 8,000 tons have been allowed was lucky; just like winning the Casket." He to go off their properties and grow on oth;;r Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 563 acsignments five or six miles away. There If my facts are correct, the Agricultural are others with peaks of that nature who Bank will lend about £8,000 to a person have been given extra assignments. How with a peak of 1,200 tons. Where does the can one explain that sort of thing? Why other £17,000 come from? These are facts, would anybody want an 8,000-ton peak to and I do not think they should be laughed at. live, and why would the Central Board give Many settlers who are being allowed in extra assignments to a man with an 8,000-ton are completely out of their depth financially. peak? As I have said, I believed that the If the Agricultural Bank says, "We will lend idea behind the expansion in the sugar only £8,000 on a peak of 1,100 or 1,200 industry was to bring as many settlers as tons," they must be completely out of their possible into our coastal area. How could depth, and at the first decrease in the over­ that be achieved by granting another assign­ seas price of sugar most of them could well ment to a grower who already has a peak walk off the land. It could then revert to of 8,000 tons? those who advanced the money in the first There are other cases I could mention. place. I went farther up the Burdekin to a place Another iniquitous thing that I discovered that was 10 miles away from the nearest transport. I have no argument with this was that many of the assignments have been man, who was fortunate in being granted an granted on seven-year leases. Nobody knows assignment; but 10 miles means a long haul what will happen at the end of that time to the nearest tramline. At the same time, with regard to the assignments themselves. somebody elce five miles from the tramline Does it mean that those who have leased is told that he is too far away. The fellow the land for seven years will walk into some next door to the man who was 10 miles sort nf bonanza in seven years? It appears away was told that he could not have an to me that that could well be so. assignment because he was too old. This is On the previous occasion I produced a the sort o.f thing that goes on. If somebody piece of clay to demonstrate that it came from the Government likes to gn around from land that was obviously in a swampy and examine these statements, he will find area. I still hold that view. Although I was that they are true. criticised for a while in the Ayr district, People have nn appeal against the deci,ion people later came to me and said, "You are of the Central Sugar Cane Prices Board. right on the ball in this matter," which I The only person they can go to is their knew I was in the first place because I was local member. They can ask him to raise guided by people who understand this sub­ the issue if he can, but he cannot do ject. The hon. member for Whitsunday said anything about it. that he did nnt know where this area was and he had never seen it. That is his fault. Mr. Ewan: They should go to the right It is there, and there are people who will member. allow him to see it if he cares to go there. Mr. TUCKER: If they did go to the right I wnsider that these things should be member they did not do any good. I was brought to light. There are other areas in not their member; I represent a city area. which nn assignments have been granted. I When they see things like that going around am thinking of Upper Murray, near Tully. them, and when they cannot find any reason This is a wonderful area and was recom­ why they have not been granted assignments, mended long ago as suitable for sugar-cane having tried time and time again, can anyone growing and the erection of another sugar blame them for being discontented? They mill. This area received nothing at all. In then find that the man next door, who has other areas, in which the land is completely not been in the industry, does not belong to unsuitable, supporters of the Government it, and has only an option on the land, is appeared able to say, "You go in there and _given an assignment. I am possibly repeat­ I will guarantee that you will get an assign­ ing myself, but these things have to be ment." That is how it appears. In actual repeated. fact, assignments were granted. That is the I speak again about the Clairview land. I position in Home Hill and Ayr, and people remember the Minister's saying that sugar­ there will know of whom I am speaking. cane will grow on any land, and could be These people are paying highly inflated gmwn even on the floor. I have nn argu­ prices. It may cost them £25,000, because ment with what he said. I dn have sufficient they will need 100 acres if they are to drain knowledge to know, however, that it will not the land, and they will face extinction with grow in a swamp. The Minister said on that the first drop in world prices. occasion, "You could drain it." This brings Let us understand, Mr. Campbell, that me to my next point. before this gambling with the sugar industry­ At Home Hill and other areas in Queens­ ! believe it is gambling-one-third of our land land is being sold for £100 or £120 sugar was disposed of on the home market, an acre. That has to be paid out before a one-third at a guaranteed price within the house or shed is built and machinery is British Commonw.,alth, and one-third on the purchased. The more I look into this matter world market. Very soon half our sugar the more convinced I am that to take up will be on the world market and subiect a cane farm with a peak of 1,200 tons one to world market price fluctuations. Hon. must have £25,000 before one can start. members opposite cannot say that that is 564 Supply ASSEMBLY] Supply

not correct. If the price of sugar on the cost him £100 an acre; it probably cost world market plunges sharply, the impact is him £10 an acre, perhaps less, when he much kss when only one-third of Australia's bought it. He was not given an assignment, sugar is sold on that market. That is why but assignments were given to those who I say there is gambling with the industry. were paying £100 or £150 an acre for land. I suppose calculated risks have to be taken Why was that man not given an assignment? sometimes. It was not on the score of economics or Mr. Aikens: The world price does not finance, or because he did not have transport; affect cane grown within the peak. It the line ran right past his door. People who applies only to cane over the peak. had owned land for years and years were excluded; others who had options on land Mr. TUCKER: I will agree that the world at greatly inflated prices received assignments. price does not affect sugar within the peak, What do hon. members read into that? but many of these people are given not What would any thinking man read into only a peak but also an assignment on it when, in fact, people can take options at acreage. They will buy the necessary £100 an acre on bad land and be given machinery to get that area under cane, and a cane assignment overnight? Many people they will acquire possibly 100 acres where would say that they read into it rorts and previously they may have acquired only 60. rackets on the part of these people and that Because it is bad land, because it will need they have got at somebody to ensure that drainage, furrows between every 12 rows, they can sell land at that inflated price. I big headlands, places to build a house and do not know whether or not that is true sheds, it will mean 100 acres at £100 an acre, but I have been unable to find anybody, perhaps more. It is obvious that they will including the Minister, who can say why have to undertake financial obligations right and how any particular decision was over the top of their heads, and they arrived at. will be in dire straits as soon as the price If the central Sugar Cane Prices Board tumbles. They have worked out that they cannot give reasons for its decisions, then will be able to meet their commitments on some doubt must remain. The Board has the basis of what they have been assigned not at any stage given reasons as to why and what they will be allowed to grow, they arrived at any decision, and I do not but if the price plunges, as my colleague see why they should not have done so if from Townsville South said-- the matter has been handled openly and Mr. Aikens: Anything they grow above they had nothing to hide. Why cannot they their peak will be affected by the world tell these people exactly why assignments market prices. have been refused to them? To quote another instance, one man took Mr. TUCKER: That is the way they are me onto his land, which was almost com­ working now, because they have to on the pletely surrounded by cane assignments, and basis of £25,000. None of us needs to by growing cane, except that there was a be a financial genius to realise how seriously road on one side of his property. I said they are in jeopardy when they are borrowing to him, "What was wrong with this?" He to that extent. The Government could well said, "They told me that the soil was crook." find, as it did in other instances, that these yet one could have taken a shanghai and people will have to walk off their properties fired a stone into the cane growing all if there is a sharp fall in the price of round it. Hon. members on the other sugar on the world market. I hope there side interjected a moment ago and said, is not. "You can grow cane on any sort of land The Central Sugar Cane Prices Board now." Yet this man was told that his soil can refuse a person the right to sell within was "crook". an area. It can say, on a sale from A to Many other people have looked into t_his B, "We will not allow it because we believe matter. I have many letters downstairs. the price is inflated." Surely, then, it should I have only a few here which I chose at have the same sort of say in a case where random, but they all tell the same story a person comes into the industry at what from all that section of Queensland from is apparently a grossly inflated price. As I Mackay north. No-one has been able to said earli~r. the Agricultural Bank will lend get any reason for refusal. These men only £8,000 on the peak, and if the experts look at their good land on which they are there say that anything beyond that is a refused assignments and, at the same time, bad risk, who will carry the extra burden see assignments being given on bad land required to get the growers started? purchased at inflated prices and they are Only recently one of the farmers showed asking what is being done about it. Why me a new tractor. It could pull a ripper, should they not do so? I believe this matter and I think someone told me in this Chamber should have been handled as it was always that that is the way the ground is cultivated. intended to be handled. In many cases It cost about £4,000, and I suppose he the Government could have done something paid for the tractor, the ripper and other about it. There is available in these areas implements in the expectation of an assign­ a lot of Crown land that is eminently suit­ ment that he did not get. He had held able for cane growing. Had this been made his land for years and years. It did not available it would have blocked these inflated Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 565

land prices. It would have stopped speculat­ exists throughout the State. As I was pre­ ing in land at £100 to £150 an acre by pared to do the other day, I am prepared to people who have no chance of success. The speak for these people today. It is the only Government could have opened Crown land way they have of getting this matter aired. for this purpose. The hon. member for They made inquiries but were merely told Mourilyan and others know that there is that they were not successful. I have letters available any amount of Crown land that saying that some people went to see their could have been opened and balloted for. solicitors-- The Minister for Primary Industries knows there is any amount in his area, but all that Mr. Aikens: The worst thing in the world has been done is to allow the rich to get is to go to a lawyer. richer and the big man to get bigger. Mr. TUCKER: That was their remedy; Mr. Aikens: I was told that the local they thought it was the correct one. After committees had to make their recommenda­ inquiries were made on their behalf they knew tions on the bases of four grounds: ( 1) no more than when they started. Even suitability of the land, (2) adequate water, though I do not know a great deal about ( 3) adequate finance, and ( 4) the experience sugar I can see that some of the things they of the applicant. were told were clear stupidity. Ho-w can Mr. TUCKER: I agree with that. I heard these people be expected to- have faith in an that on occasions, too. But when you talk industry that is run in such a manner? to the people who were knocked back, the I conclude on this note: all this criticism first thing you find is that they have com­ has been brought on the Central Sugar Cane plied with everything the hon. member for Prices Board by its own actions in the Townsville ~outh mentioned, and more. granting of these new cane assignments. Every one of them who asked me to look at his land complied with those conditions, Mr. BEARDMORE (Balonne) (4.23 p.m.): so what does one say to men like that­ I should like to direct my contribution to the ordinary, decent farmers? What does the Budget debate to irrigation, which is so hon. member for Whitsunday say to them important to the progress and economic when they show him land that has not those development of our wonderful State. desirable qualities but on which assignments We, as a Government, have a great respon­ were granted? sibility to see that the rain that falls on our It is stated, "Production in the industry catchment areas is made use of and is not is such that we cannot gamble; we must allowed to run to waste. Even if there is no have them all near transport." Yet I can immediate return, irrigation potential, when go 10 or 15 miles away from transport and developed, must play a major part in find assignments being granted. I should increased production, which this State needs like to know why we are not consistent in if we are to hold our place in the world's these things? Why should we not have markets for primary produce and establish utilised this opportunity to open up new economic stability. It is a matter for regret, Crown lands and to ballot for them as we of course, that finance for irrigation projects did long ago in settlements which have been is more or less part of any Government's eminently successful? Then everyone would spending allowance shared with other equally at least have felt satisfied. If I could say important Government departments, and there to a man, "You went into the hat but did never seems to be enough money to go not come out," he would say, "Just too round. bad." But now he says to me, "I was not in the race in the first place. I didn't even It is to be hoped that with the State's go into the hat. I didn't have a chance." apparent productive capacity it could be By using the method suggested 1,500 people expected that more money will be available could have qualified out of 3,000'-possibly for irrigation, but time is a very precious more-because many people in the industry factor and the need for irrigation expenditure and connected with it would know what was should not be tied to the State's ability to necessary. If in fact 2,000 qualified, why find the necessary money. It should be were the 1,000 brushed aside? approached on a national basis, and the Federal Government should be asked to Mr. Murray: Screening first and the ballot finance irrigation projects which would most afterwards, you suggest? certainly add to the State's productiveness and monetary gain. Mr. TUCKER: Yes. I agree that there could be screening. There would be some I mentioned the irrigation farms at St. with no hope at the start. When I first spoke George during the Address-in-Reply debate. I said that I wanted to be responsible in this Reverting again to the irrigation position as it matter. I realise that there are men with an aftects cotton-growing at St. George, I point axe to grind who can suck you in. But if out that already there is sufficient land served there are responsible men in the community by the present channel system at St. George to who can point out these things, I say there provide from 6,000 to 8,000 acres of cotton. should be a screening. Then those who All that is required is additional water. comply with all the rules and regulations Having in mind that cotton is a payable crop, should go to a ballot. If that had been done previous experience has enabled growers to it would have removed the feeling that now deal with the many pests operating against a 20 566 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply successful crop. Further encouraged by the to be idle onlookers while much of the Bureau of Agricultural Economics and the water from this big watershed runs to waste C.S.I.R.O., who have reported favourably on through an otherwise comparatively dry, the climatic environment for cotton at St. vast sheep and cattle country. George, it seems that with the advent of the The Balonne Shire Council, with its cen­ crop from a farm operated by Canadians it tral offices in St. George, realising the urgent is quite possible that the erection of a cotton necessity to supplement the only major weir ginnery is justified. between Killarney and the New South Wales I also drew attention to the fact that the border in South-west Queensland, recently population of St. George alone increased carried a resolution requesting the Depart­ by 31 per cent. in the years between 1954 ment of Irrigation and Water Supply and and 1961, an increase contributed to, to a the Department of Primary Industries to great extent, by the 20-odd irrigation farms take steps to investigate the possibility of established adjacent to the town. How building another weir 15 miles above much more could we increa'Se our population St. George, where there is a satisfactory if more and more irrigation areas were made rock foundation on a site where water can available. Irrigation, wherever it might take be channelled by gravitation via a natural place in Queensland, is of major import­ watercourse into Thuraggie Lagoon, which ance and, instead of having the watersheds could serve approximately 40 to 50 of our major river systems run to waste in additional irrigation farms in proximity to times of flood, and finding after a short those already established. At the same period that there are water shortage'S in our time, water could be released for require­ inland in particular, surely it is imperative ments downstream in times of need, which that prompt action be taken, by every means do not occur very often. There are many possible, to rectify this sorry position. other ·suitable sites on other streams higher up the river where, in the same watershed, There is no doubt that Queensland suffers smaller weirs could be established in order from too few irrigation project'S when we to replenish weirs further down the stream view those remarkably productive schemes as required. in southern States, quite possibly helped by greater rainfall. There would be few better The present weir at St. George has proved catchment areas than Queensland possesses. its worth in no small way, but the problem of The Condamine-Balonne River basin has an releasing sufficient water for grazing properties estimated catchment area of 29,000 square and the town of Dirranbandi lower down­ miles above St. George. stream in times of dry weather needs to be overcome. Farms with irrigation require Another somewhat happier position i'S also sufficient water to be fully productive in this apparent in Queensland in that our inland highly developed irrigation project. rivers are diverted from the coast by the As I have said, money is the keynote of Great Dividing Range, north to south, over the whole business. It is important that we thousands of miles, thus providing immense have sufficient storage capacity in our inland quantities of water for use through irrigation area to provide some semblance of security channels for many more thousands of acres for our primary products and for the more of naturally dry but good soil capable of rapid advancement of this State. much greater usage for sheep, wool, cattle, cotton and other forms of primary produc­ Nothing could bolster our primary produc­ tion upon which our inland towns and the tion more than the supply of ample water. State generally depend 'So much for increased We have the know-how to achieve all this, population and wealth. Too few people, I and we have a competent staff, headed by feel, realise the tremendous possibilities our Commissioner Haigh, which can be depended inland rivers po'Ssess in this respect. upon to carry out major water-conservation projects. I appeal to the Treasurer and the The Condamine River basin, which com­ Minister for Conservation, and, through them, mences above Killarney and traverses coun­ to the Government as a whole to give very try northerly and as far west as Injune and serious consideration to what I have said and Mitchell, has a tremendous watershed which to make money available for another major supplies 34 major creeks together with the weir on the Balonne River, from which, I am Maranoa River, which joins the Balonne sure, Queensland will benefit greatly. River 18 miles north of St. George. This Mr. Mann: They won't give you the money. river rises at Killarney, and is known as the Condamine for hundreds of miles. It Mr. BEARDMORE: We can only hope is known as the Balonne from its junction that they do. with Dogwood Creek, 40 miles above Surat. Thus it may be readily reali'Sed by hon. I should like to have something to say on members what huge quantities of water the very wonderful job being done by the pass by St. George and go on through Department of Health, especially in relation western New South Wales in the Darling to hospitals. Four years ago the Surat public River, and finally into the sea to be wasted. hospital was destroyed by fire and now in its place stands a 16-bed modern brick building Surely this heaven-sent opportunity for that is a credit to the Department of Health irrigation is a challenge to our initiative to and a very wonderful comfort to the people develop this, a natural heritage, rather than of that district. Supply [6 OcTOBER] Supply 567

When I became the member for the Tara are able to meet what the Government district I was astounded by the decrepit, out­ expects of them, it will be a sorry state of-date, and totally unsuitable buildings that of affairs for Queensland in the near future. served as a hospital in that town. These It is quite easy for the Treasurer to hospital buildings were erected in a water­ introduce a Financial Statement of this nature. course, which resulted in their becoming We must, however, look very closely at the completely surrounded and partly submerged position to make sure that we are m;t caught whenever there was a flood in the creek in the years to come because of thmgs now caused by rain that fell on the higher ground. being done here. For instance, on the first This was known to happen as many as four page of the Financial Statement the Treasurer times in a year. refers to many industries to support what he The then Department of Health and Home claims to be the prosperity of the State. Affairs, headed by the late Dr. Noble, decided I listened with interest to the speech qf that a new hospital must be built, and plans the hon. member for Townsville North, in were prepared for a new brick hospital. which he indicated quite clearly what could Today a 24-bed hospital is nearing comple­ happen in the sugar industry. The same tion. I had the honour of laying the founda­ thing applies to the meat industry. tion stone of the building some months ago, The Treasurer also on the first page, refers and it is expected that the Minister for to the building industry as an indication of Health will officially open this £140,000 hos­ Queensland's present prosperity. I do not pital before the end of the present year. We disagree with that; it could be correct. Let look forward to the visit of the Minister to me say, however, as one who has been Tara, so that the people living there will have engaged in industry since 1947, that I have the opportunity of thanking him personally, seen this happen before. There have been and, through him, the Government, for its many boom and bust period~ in the building understanding and help. industry. At the present time, because _of the carrying out of a number of comm~r~ml Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (4.34 p.m.): The projects, there is no doubt that. the bmldmg Financial Statement introduced by the industry is prosperous. J?lere Is a~so. great Treasurer on this occasion would give one development taking place m the bmldmg of the impression that the prosperity of Queens­ land has never been at a higher level. homes. Here again, we all know that there are A Government Member: That is correct. many avenues for the rais~ng of. fi!lance to build homes and commercial bmldmgs. If Mr. NEWTON: It may be what the hon. this supply of finance is cut off, industry member thinks. faces another bust, and the building industry, A careful examination of the Financial which plays a very imp~rtant role in t~e Statement leaves much to be desired. We find State, will deteriorate agam to the state m that since 1961, when the people of Queens­ which I have seen it since I became a land cast their votes against the Common­ member of Parliament in 1960. The Budget wealth Government for the raw deal the State speaks of prosperity in Queensland, but those of Queensland was receiving, certain changes factors must be taken into consideration. have been made in the Government of this The Treasurer mentioned that although it State. In the first place, we saw the battle was estimated originally that the Mt. Isa between the defeated Federal members and railway project would cost £30,000,000 it is members of the Government occupying the now expected that it will cost the Government Treasury benches in Queensland. The only £26,300,000. This does not really sur­ Government was accused of not putting prise me, because since becoming a mem~er Queensland's case properly before the Loan of this Assembly I have taken the opportumty Council. Since taking my seat in this Assem-· of seeing the construction work in progress. bly in 1960, I have witnessed on many The Americans have shown us an entirely new occasions the Premier and the Treasurer tak­ method of laying railway lines, and no doubt ing substitutes with them to meetings of the the project will be concluded well ahead of Loan Council. Sometimes it was the Deputy schedule because of the use of highly­ Premier who went, and at other times it was mechanised plant. Not very long ago we another Minister. were faced with a very serious problem of We find today in the Financial Statement, unemployment in Queensland, and one would because the Government has pressed its claim have thought that some of the money loaned further since it was attacked in 1961 by to the Government for the Mt. Isa railway its defeated colleagues, special repayable project could have been used to overcome the assistance grants made to the State. On problem. However, it was not, and we find going through the Financial Statement we now that this is merely one of the projects find that, whereas this started with probably implemented by the Government that will only one or two projects, there are now impose a heavy burden on the people of quite a number covered by special repayable Queensland because the money for it has assistance grants and others are contemplated. been provided by means of special repayable It seems to me that these debits could, over assistance. a period of years, become numerous. Unless If we go a little further, we see that the the grants received are able to establish new Treasurer, who has been in charge of the industries in the State, and these industries State's finances since the Government took 568 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply office in 1957, is now surveying every possible this assistance. I have indicated that there avenue to obtain more money from the were two important fields in which su~h Commonwealth Government. He mentions assistance was required. The first was m particularly reimbursements to the State on the building up of our universities to. a the basis of population, and he refers to the stage where we could be sure of turnmg amount that would be received if full-blooded out all the professional men required by the aboriginals were taken into consideration. I State. The second was in doing something do not disagree with this. I think it would be in the secondary schools for those school­ a very good thing if we could give to the leavers who require technical education. It aboriginal people in Queensland full voting is very heartening to me to read in the rights, make available to them all the other Financial Statement that the Commonwealth amenities that are enjoyed by white citizens, Government in conjunction with the State and receive in return from the Common­ Government' has at last realised the import­ wealth Government an amount per head that ance of making this money available and is would enable us to do something for them prepared to play its part in making these in their particular sphere. educational facilities available for children The announcement relating to lump-sum passing through Junior and Senior stages payments and weekly payments under the but who do not wish to go to university. They will in future have facilities available Viorkers' Compensation Act will be received to them to go through the technological by the trade-union movement as something field and further their studies in that direc­ that should .have been implemented a long tion and become assets to the State. time ago. It is good to know that, in future. increases in the basic wage will automatically One of the main matters on which I wish flow into workers' compensation payments to speak today is the Treasurer's clear instead of an amending Bill having to be indication in the Financial Statement that brought before Parliament. I have been a increased salaries have been granted to member of this Assembly since 1960, and members of the Public Service, the Teachers' with the exception of the amending Bill Union and the Police Union. It is well setting up the Cardiac Board, the only discus­ known to hon. members on this side that sions we have had on the Workers' Com­ most of the increases granted to these people pensation Act have related to increased lump­ were arrived at by agreement with the sum and weekly payments. I hope that other Government before the cases reached the amendments will be made to the Act from court. I have no objection to that. I time to time, because hon. members on this think conciliation is a great thing, provided side of the Chamber have many suggestions it does not apply to only one section of to make for the improvement of the Act. the community. We usually make them at the introductory stage of amending Bills, and if we do not I have here a letter which I received from make them then the only chance we have of the Metal Trades Federation, of which Mr. making them is in the Budget debate or the Jack Devereux is the secretary. He is a Address-in-Reply debate. very good tradesman and a highly respect~d trade unionist, and he points out the dis­ I hope that the Treasurer will at some content amongst members of his union in sta,ge. elabor::t.e. on the expenditure on ship­ Government and semi-Government depart­ bmldmg fac1ht1es at Kangaroo Point. We ments at the point-blank refusal of the are led to believe that the whole of the port Public Service Commissioner tn meet and of Brisbane will move towards the mouth consult with them on the question of of the Brisbane River. I think those reports increased wages. I emphasise this point are authentic. It is also indicated that because later on I intend to have quite a the tugboats at the A.U.S.N. docks bit to say about the shortage of skilled trades­ at Petrie Bight will be eventually moved men in this State and the role that has been and the whole of the shipping at played by the present Government since present calling at the port of Bris­ 1957. bane will be concentrated at wharves in the . vicinity of Hamilton Reach. If we In the letter that I received from are gomg to spend public money assisting Mr. Devereux he points out quite clearly- people like Evans Deakin & Co. Pty. Ltd. "This question in regard to the wage to extend their ship-building yards we will rate·s of Governmental and semi-govern­ have . the _responsibility of making sure that mental employees has reached such a t~e nver 1s kept clear from Kangaroo Point stage in view of the refusal of the Public nght down to the main shipping area so Service Commissioner to confer with the that any large-size ships built at those yards Unions that at a meeting held on Wednes­ can be moved to the mouth of the river. day, 9)9/64, the following resolution was I am very pleased to see on this occasion carried unanimously:- mention in the Financial Statement of Com­ "This mass meeting of employees of monwealth assistance for education in this Government and semi-Government State. Ever since I have been a member establishments express their dissatisfac­ of th!s Chamber I have spoken strongly tion with the replies of the Public Ser­ on th1s matter and I have been asked by vice Commissioner in refusing to meet way of interjection from the Government the Unions in relation to the question side how the Commonwealth could provide of wages. Supply [6 OcTOBER] Supply 569

"The Metal Trades Unions in their "Deputy Premier and Industri~l De_velop­ negotiations with the Metal Trades ment Minister (Mr. Munro) said this last Employers, who have since paid night. increases of 42s. 6d., 27s. 6d., 21s. 3d., "Mr. Munro, who returned last month endeavoured to have the increases from a world tour, was addressing a public brought about by award variation. meeting in the R.S.L. Hall, Toowong." "We declare our determination to continue our campaign for wage This was his answer to the problem- increases no less favourable than those "This is the Government's immediate paid in the industry. problem and we must look outside Aus­ "We direct the unions to again tralia for skilled tradesmen." request the Public Service Commis­ This is a very sore point with parents of sioner to confer with the Unions and school children because again and again, we seek the assistance of the Premier whenever the Government has been faced in our endeavours to confer on the wage with this problem, the first thing that h~ question."" been said is, "We must look outside Australia for skilled tradesmen." I will put other When I look at what can be done with the statements before the Chamber as I continue Public Service section of the community because different statements have been made, and realise how the Commissioners, the and much worse statements have been made Ministers, and others holding responsible b} the Deputy Premier than on that occasion. positions in the departments would be fully I repeat that parents are very concerned about aware of what is going on, I fail to see these statements when they know that their why the physical workers and the skilled children are leaving school this year and will tradesmen of this State cannot be met in be looking for jobs. similar circumstances to discuss this question. It i-s up to the Government to meet these I have asked many questions this year unions. When you look at the unions that about apprenticeships in the various Govern­ make up this group you realise the import­ ment departments. Only the other day I ance of meeting them and having their wage asked the Premier two questions. One answer increases considered. v.as in favour of the Government when he pointed out to me that of 15 projects under Over recent months much has been said construction at the university 11 were being about the shortage of skilled tradesmen. A built by day labour. That is a credit to the number of parents whose children will be Government. On the other hand, the number leaving school at the end of this year have of tradesmen to apprentices employed over telephoned me regarding certain statements the years is not a credit to the Govern~~nt, made by the Ministers of the Crown. I considering the number who could be trammg refer to a statement by the Deputy Premier, in this field. who is the Minister for Industrial Develop­ ment, in the presence of the Premier and The university buildings would be the best another Cabinet Minister, when they were training ground for apprentices in the building launching the second State Government­ trade. Since this Government has taken office ·sponsored campaign to sell Queensland-made there has been no departure from the normal goods and to boost employment. After the pattern laid down for the architectural con­ Premier had completed his part of the struction of the buildings. We find the official function the Deputy Premier said following pattern in the employment of that Queensland was missing out on a large apprentices- share of additional prosperity because it was Apprentices not more highly industrialised. He said that Apprentices permitted of the 29,000 children leaving school this Year employed to be employed year, about 2,500 would go to the university, 1957-58 8 20 the teachers' college, and into professions, 1958-59 12 40 leaving 26,500 seeking work. That state­ 1959-60 9 23 ment appeared in "The Courier-Mail" of 1960-61 11 36 21 April, 1964. The parents of school chil­ 1961-62 11 33 dren have become very concerned. Previ­ 1962-63 13 24 ously I have said that about 22,000 children 1963-64 13 32 have left school each year since this Govern­ I must be fair and say that in the electrical ment took office in 1957. The Deputy trade the number of tradesmen employed on Premier's figures for the year 1964 proved the site compares reasonably with the number this to be correct. of apprentices. Parents of children leaving school are con­ We on this side of the Chamber believe that cerned about a further statement by the most of the problems associated with the Deputy Premier which appeared in "The shortage of skilled tradesmen lie in the failure Courier-Mail" of 24 September, 1964, of the Government to encourage school­ headed-"More Skilled Men Needed". The leavers to take out apprenticeships in this article reads- State. When hon. members on this side of "Queensland's apprenticeship system has the Chamber send school-leavers to the not turned out enough skilled men to various departments to take up apprentice­ satisfy the needs of some trades. ships in the skilled trades their experience has 570 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

been that appointments are made on the basis being applied today, there is a greater demand of a Junior pass. The highest standard of for electrical tradesmen in Queensland than Junior pass is necessary; school-leavers with ever before. In the metal industry again an ordinary Junior pass are rejected. What we find that there is a great demand for has been the result of the policy that is fitters and turners, boilermakers and black­ applied in Government departments? The smiths, members of the Amalgamated employers seized on this system adopted by Engineering Union. There is also a demand the Government and did the same thing in for members of the Federated Engine Drivers their own industries. and Firemen's Association, without whom We on the Opposition side feel that the the large industries in this State could not introduction of daytime training, as referred operate. We find similar demands for iron to in the Financial Statement, is a move in workers, sheet-metal workers and moulders. the right direction, but it is a move that When we speak of oil refineries, not only should have been made long ago by this building workers are employed but members Government if it fully realised its respon­ of the Electrical Trades Union and unions sibility in providing skilled tradesmen in this covering the metal trades. The same applies State. Since the Government took over in the building trade. There is a shortage of control of the Treasury benches in 1957, bricklayers, carpenters and joiners, wood and since I became a member of this machinists, and also of plumbers, painters, Assembly in 1960, we have heard a great and plasterers. Again this is a result of the deal about all the new industries it was Government's not facing up to its responsi­ going to bring to this State. If the bilities in this matter. Government does that, it should face up to I indicate quite clearly that this is not the the responsibility of seeing that apprentices fault of the trade unions or the group are being trained not only in its departments, apprenticeship committees. They have advised but also in the outside industries. the Government through the State apprentice­ One particular reason for apprentices not ship executive. On this body there are, continuing with their apprenticeships is the representing the unions, Mr. Milliner, secre­ low wages paid to them. Taking my own tary of the Printing Industry Employees' industry, the building industry, as an Union, Mr. Devereux, secretary of the Amal­ example, the wage of a first-year apprentice gamated Engineering Union, and, lately, Mr. is £6 a week; the wage of a second-year Dawson, of the Building Workers' Industrial apprentice is £7 a week; and the wage of Union. They are all men very skilled in a third-year apprentice is £9 a week. The tradesmanship, and all are very concerned first three years of any apprenticeship are about the entire apprenticeship system, the most important years. During that time whether as members of the group apprentice­ the apprentice either settles down to his ship committee or the executive committee. trade and adapts himself to it or he becomes discontented and gives it away. One of the It is a lot of bunkum to say that the things that cause discontent among appren­ unions have not endeavoured to assist the tices is the low rate of pay they receive Government or employers to train more during the first, second and third years. apprentices. My experience as a member of We find-and it can be proved-that students the group apprenticeship committee is that passing through secondary schools, most of when an employer applies for an apprentice whom leave with a Junior pass or the Junior in a particular industry the committee looks standard, seek white-collar jobs. That is easy at the number of tradesmen that he employs. to understand because they can enter those It is true that the ratio is one apprentice to two tradesmen, but I indicate quite clearly jobs on a wage of something like £8 a week, that I do not know of any group apprentice­ which is better than the wage paid to those who enter a trade. Unless something in ship committee that does not consider allow­ addition to the introduction of daytime ing an extra apprentice to an employer who training is done, I am very much afraid that employs five tradesmen. The fact that he has five is taken into consideration, and his num­ we will not attract the school-leavers into ber of apprentices may be lifted to three. trade apprenticeships. Today there is a The committee has even allowed one appren­ shortage of skilled tradesmen in most of the tice to one tradesman in the case of an highly-skilled trades. There is no excuse employer who is known to be reliable and for this, because for quite a long time the Australian Council of Trade Unions has who spends part of his time on the job. stressed to the Governments of Australia the These things are very important. It is the importance of ensuring that an adequate responsibility of the Federal and State number of apprentices is trained each year Governments to carry out their works on the to meet the requirements of industry. The day-labour principle and train their full Queensland branch of the Trades and Labour quotas of apprentices. There would be no Council has taken this matter up with the shortage of skilled tradesmen if this were Government. done by both Governments. One of the trades that is faced with a Much damage to the apprenticeship system shortage of skilled tradesmen today is the in this State has been done by piece-work. electrical trade. It is a very important trade This is now getting a firm grip on many and it is one that is growing every day. industries here, and certain action by the Because of the highly mechanised techniques Government has helped it to expand in these Supply [6 OcrOBER] Supply 571 fields. Let me make it clear that those work­ suburbs, because parents have been greatly ing on piece-work are not at all interested in concerned about the time taken by appren­ employing school-leavers and training them tices to get to technical colleges and then, in the various trades. A worker on piece­ after completing a two-hour course, the time work puts his head down and another part they have to wait at bus stops for transport of his body up and goes flat out to get as home. I believe that this is one of the much as he can for himself and his mate. factors that has reduced greatly the number He is not concerned about anybody else. We of apprentices throughout the State. Because say that stop-gap and supplementary training of escapades in which youths have been schemes do not provide an adequate supply concerned in the metropolitan area, it is of tradesmen for the future of Queensland. well known that innocent students waiting at Let us have a look at the position in a bus stop on their way home from technical other Government departments. The latest college have been questioned by police as to move by the Government has been to set why they are standing in a particular spot. up a committee of three Ministers to investi­ Fortunately, they have been able to indicate gate the position. Those who have been to the gentlemen in question that they have appointed are the Deputy Premier (Mr. attended college and are on their way home. M unro), the Minister in charge of migration In relation to this matter, a statement was (Dr. Delamothe), and the Minister for made on 3 October by the present Minister Labour and Industry (Mr. Dewar). I am for Works and Housing. At least he is a very surprised that the most important little more genuine in his approach and not member of Cabinet connected with the so cold-hearted as others. He said we have apprenticeship system, the Minister for to go outside the State and get skilled trades­ Education, is not on the committee. It men from overseas. He said- may be _said that the Government's policy "To cope with the situation, we must of changmg departments from one Minister attract a large number of skilled workers to another is the reason for this. If it is, from southern States and overseas." in my opinion it reflects no credit on the Let us examine his first statement in which Government. When Labour was in govern­ he said that it was a well-known fact so ment in Queensland, the education of our children at the primary and secondary levels far as Victoria and New South Wales are and during their apprenticeship all came concerned that the payments received by under the jurisdiction of the Minister for tradesmen are much higher than those Education, and in my opinion-! am sure received in Queensland and the position it . is s?ared by many of my colleagues on had been reversed. I doubt that we will ever attract tradesmen from the southern t~us side of the Chamber-apprenticeship nghtly belongs to that portfolio. States where over-award payments are much higher than those received in Queensland. Members of the Opposition also have The same remarks apply to conditions. grave doubts about the time that the three Agreement by conciliation with employers Ministers on the committee will be able to give to the problem, which requires urgent in those States is easier than it is in this consideration. The Minister for Justice is State. While their award payments are faced with difficulties relating to amendments higher they will not leave those States to of the liquor laws that he proposes to bring come to Queensland. Not only are their before this Assembly, and the number of award payments higher, but their over-award letters and deputations that he will receive payments are £2 or £3 over the award. in the near future will leave him little time Mr. Davies: This is a low-wage State. to devote to the affairs of the committee. What took place here this morning indicates Mr. NEWTON: That is true. In addition, clearly the problems facing the Minister for employees and employers in those States Labour and Industry in connection with the meet every 12 months to decide what will closure of police stations throughout Queens­ be the over-award payments in the various land. Hon. members on this side of the industries. Chamber gave notice of many questions on that subject, and I have no doubt that Turning now to the department adminis­ Government members could ask many tered by the Minister for Works and Housing questions, too, if they wished to speak up. and previously administered by the In my opinion, therefore, the personnel of Treasurer, I should like to deal with con­ the committee leaves much to be desired. tractors for the Queensland Housing Com­ mission. I have here a list of contractors It is interesting to note that the Minister that was supplied to me the other day, a for Education, who always tries to beat the perusal of whic'h shows that many builders gun, announced on 22 September, before the who would be employing a large number Treasurer presented his Financial Statement of tradesmen are employing no apprentices that daytime training would be instituted and that technical training centres would be at all on Government jobs. set up in various suburbs. This is a very Turning to the Department of Works, good move, but because of transport although more tradesmen are employed now difficulties, I question the wisdom of choosing than prior to 1957 when the Australian some of the suburbs mentioned. I hope Labour Party was in office, a shocking state that this question will be given earnest con­ of affairs is evident in the training of appren­ sideration if colleges are built in outer tices. When 1,500 tradesmen were employed 572 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply in various trades the number of apprentices attack from the other side is that we have not employed was only 329, and it must be put forward any proposals to help overcome remembered that the Apprenticeship Act the problem. We say that the Government allows one apprentice for every two trades­ should take action to end the boom-slump men and even three apprentices for five nature of the industries and to provide for tradesmen. One does not need to excel at their steady growth. What I have expe~ienced mental arithmetic to see what has been hap­ since I have become a member of Parliament pening in the Department of Works since has been shocking. I have seen many people, 1957 when this Government took office. including tradesmen, unemployed in this It has a shocking record in the training of State. The problem could be overcome by apprentices. making sure that there is a steady growth of In the Queensland Housing Commission in all industries with a regular flow of appren­ 1957-58, 230 tradesmen were employed and tices being trained in the various trad~s. We only 47 apprentices were being trained where say that by legislative and other actwn the there could have been 115. In 1958-59, 212 Government should bring an end to the piece­ tradesmen were employed and only 34 work system in the building and other indus­ apprentices were being trained when there tries and that the employers should also be call~d upon to abolish piecework in this could have been 107. In 1959-60, 20 appren­ State. This is something that needs to be tices were being trained for 203 tradesmen. There could have been 101. So it goes on done if we are to train the number of appren­ until in 1963-64 we find 41 apprentices being tices that are required. trained for 179 tradesmen whereas there We suggest that an appeal be made to could have been 89. employers to provide openings for appren­ Taking the position further to the Depart­ tices in all trades and that the Government ment of Primary Industries where day­ should carry out its jobs using the day-labour labour personnel are employed. in the elec­ principle, and train the full quota o.f appren­ trical trades the position is fair, the number tices that it could train on those Jobs. We of apprentices training to the number of suggest that where Government contracts are tradesmen being reasonable. let they should be let to the tenderers with the best record of training of apprentices, When we consider the number that could and the contracts should stipulate that have been trained in particular fields in the apprentices be employed on appropriate jobs. building section, going right back since this Without fear of contradiction I say, as I have Government took office we find that eight, said before, that if you look at all the con­ nine and, in one case, 14 extra could have tracts that have been let by the present been trafned in the various fields. One of the Government I will guarantee that in some worst departments I can name is the depart­ cases you will find that not one apprentice ment under the jurisdiction of the Minister is employed on the job. of Health. We have a job to the value of £500,000 being built by prison labour. No It is well to remember that each year training of apprentices will be carried out thousands of young people offer themselves there. The same remarks apply to the day­ for apprenticeship, but private employers and labour projects on hospital buildings. We the Government do not provide nearly enough have seen the shocking state of affairs that apprenticeship openings in the various trad.es. occurs with the Irrigation and Water Supply If the principles I have referred to are earned Commission. When this Government took out the shortage of skilled tradesmen con­ control of the Treasury benches 2,000 person­ f;o~ting the Government will be overcome. nel were working on day-labour projects If they are not, I fail to see how the G_overn­ where they had their own workshops. Their ment can attract the necessary apprentices to children could have been trained on the ensure that there is no shortage. various projects to do a skilled job, but what has happened? Day labour has almost com­ Another matter which affects the people in pletely fallen by the wayside and the work my electorate is the system in operation at has been handed over to contract. the Central Technical College. In some of We have a similar position in the Main the higher fields of study at the Technical Roads Department. In the Main Roads work­ College I understand that previously, on com­ shop at Nundah apprentices could be trained pleting a five-year course, a. person recei':'ed in every section-as painters, carpenters, a diploma which enabled htm to get a JOb metal workers or anything else. There is no either in outside industry or with the Govern­ need for me to talk about the Railway ment. I understand that previously, people Department. Surely every hon. member has who passed their examinations and received a been through the various workshops under diploma had rights equal to those enjoyed by the jurisdiction of that department and knows people who attended the university and quite well the machinery in the shops and eventually got a degree. However, that is to the number of apprentices who could be be changed under the new syllabus. People trained there. There again this opportunity v;ho have a Junior pass and have undertaken is not .being taken. this highly skilled course at the Technical College are concerned that the Government's We feel that some proposals must be made policy will be that highly skilled positions in to meet this problem. Whenever we make the various Government departments wi]l be speeches about the Government's policy the available only to those with university Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 573 degrees. People who go into various depart­ The hon. member for Kurilpa mentioned ments with a diploma will be only assistants the Estimates for the Department of Rail­ to the university graduates. ways, and he took me up the wrong way when I interjected and said that pensioners I raise these matters because quite a living in areas where branch railway lines had number of people who have just about com­ been closed are suffering great hardship. I was pleted a five-year Technical College course referring particularly to the closure of the are very concerned. They believe it will railway lines to the Gold Coast and to affect their professional status after they Cleveland. Pensioners used to travel to the receive their diploma. city from those places on rail passes from the Government, but today they have to pay 9s. During the Address-in-Reply debate I spoke to get from Cleveland to Brisbane and return. about the very difficult conditions experienced They cannot get out on the week-end at all. by those en the basic wage. I received some When the railway was operating at least they very good letters from people, both in the h2.d the opportunity. The same remarks metropolitan area and throughout the State, apply to the Gold Coast. congratulating me on raising this matter and telling me how difficult it is to exist on a (Time expired.) basic wage of £15 a week. I also received a number of letters from the various unions that Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (5.33 p.m.): It is have to put the facts before the Industrial my considered opinion that to elaborate to Commission when a basic wage case is under any great degree on the various Estimates is consideration. These letters indicate quite not possible owing to the limited time at clearly that they are pleased with the sub­ my disposal this afternoon. I shall, therefore, missions that have been made on this matter. content myself by referring to only certain If these people are to get justice, it is items. It is unnecessary for me to elaborate obviously high time for an investigation such on them to any great extent because the as was conducted by previous Governments Leader of the Opposition made a wide and when we had the Piddington Inquiry and the intelligent survey of the Budget as a whole, Harvester Inquiry. Whilst the findings of one and to try to follow him would only entail of those inquiries were not accepted by the tedious repetition. Government, the others were. That indicates quite clearly to me the necessity for another Before I make particular reference to any investigation of that nature. Votes, I think I should say that many of us are guilty of not giving credit and paying The hon. member for Kurilpa has had quite tribute not only to the staff of Parliament a lot to say on this subject. I think he is House, but al~o to members of the Public one Government member who indicates quite Service generally. I do not think that we clearly that he has some sympathy with a always realise the good work that they do, number of matters raised on this side of and the great service that they render the the Chamber. He clearly indicated again State. When at times we find ourselves today that he felt it was the responsibility confronted with certain problems, we are of Ministers to conciliate with the various given advice and the guidance necessary unions on wages and award conditions affect­ to enable us to work successfully ing their members. He pointed out that here and worthily represent our constituents. ~inisters sometimes meet union representa­ tiVes and that sometimes the representatives I may be accused of digressing to a certain are not quite happy with the results of their extent, but I intend to take advantage of interviews. I want to point out quite clearly the opportunity now afforded to pay a com­ to the hon. member for Kurilpa and other pliment to certain members and sections of members on the Government side of the the Public Service. At the same time, I Chamber that many deputations from trade feel sure that many hon. members will agree unions wait on Ministers of the Crown and with me in the remarks that I shall they do not always go away with the results make. I am not going to refer to particular they expect to achieve, but at least the officers because of their classifications in the Ministers do have the courtesy and decency service, but because of the dedicated to meet them. work that they do for us and for the State . These things are of great importance today as a whole. 1f we are to get the best out of conciliation Under the heading of "Legislative and arbitration. It is all right for an hon. Assembly" I feel duty bound to pay a tribute member to get up in this Chamber and say, to the work of The Clerk of the Parliament, "I believe in conciliation and arbitration." The trouble is that he is not always sincere Mr. Dunlop. I am sure that all hon. mem­ when he says that, because many people bers agree that the way in which he carries believe in arbitration but not in conciliation. out his duty is exemplary indeed. Mr. If there was more conciliation when these Dunlop meets us all on an equal footing. matters go before the Industrial Conciliation I have gone to him many times for advice and Arbitration Commission, they could be and have received it expertly and in a handled more easily than they are being verv efficient manner. I pay him a com­ handled today. It is high time that the pliment, and feel sure that it will be echoed Government had a look at this problem. by all. 574 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I pay a similar tribute to 'his staff. All members should also be given air transport are most approachable and most helpful to enable them to visit projects of importance when any advice is sought. All hon. mem­ in the State. bers, I feel sure, will agree that it is only right and proper at times to show our Mr. Hughes: To see what we are talking appreciation to Mr. Dunlop and all members about. of his staff. Mr. DEAN: Yes, to know what we are Moving down the Vote a little, I come talking about. I think we would then have to the correspondence room. Again, I have a better appreciation of the magnitude of the nothing but praise for the typists' section. projects. I might add that I have never visited the Mr. Davies: Why not all members? correspondence room in the entire period in which I have been here. I have had no Mr: DEAN: I am coming to that in a need to go there; either a typist has come moment. We should then be able to make tc me to get my work, or I have sent it more constructive criticism and suggestions down. Many times I have had no indica­ for the progress of Queensland. Consideration tion of the particular typist who carried out should be given to providing all members my work, but I now pay to the senior typist with a certain number of flights each year; in charge of the pool and the other typists I do not mean an unrestricted number. Once a very high compliment on the standard of or twice each year members should be given work performed. an opportunity to fly to some part of the The Parliamentary reporting staff is also State and have a look at development that deserving of recognition. I also place on is takrng place. I make that suggestion record our appreciation of the job of great for what it is worth. It is really a matter magnitude carried out by them. I some­ for Government members because they have times think that they must be approaching the opportunity to take some positive action geniuses in the way in which they take down on it, and I appeal to them to confer with speeches and reproduce them in the way in the Treasurer and the Premier and see if this which we read them next day. I am sure privilege can be granted to enable us to do that many of us feel very flattered indeed our job more fully. when we see well-formed sentences and cor­ In the Estimates for Premier and Depart­ rect grammar in the reports of our speeches. ment of State Development there is an item I feel sure that no hon. member will dis­ that has interested me for some time­ agree with what I have said about the report­ Agent-General for the State. I am not ing staff of this Parliament. I pay them a quibbling about the cost of the Agent-General compliment. or of the administration of the Agent­ General's office. However, from time to I warned that my speech may be a rather time I have heard criticism from people rambling one. Coming closer to the actual coming to this country, not of the personnel Chamber, I deal now with the staff in the of the London office but of the gene.ral refreshment room. I feel that recognition information that is given to them. They should be given to them, and, to my way of believe that they are not given sufficient thinking, the new supervisor is giving very information about what they should expect good service. I have heard no complaints when they arrive in Queensland. Many of about the way in which Miss Glennie con­ their complaints relate to housing problems, ducts the refreshment room; rather have I and people from England have complained heard much praise for her and her staff. All bitterly to me and said they would not the waitresses she has are very efficient and have come to Queensland if they had known do a very good job, and I compliment them. it would be so difficult to obtain a home also. in which to settle their family. They claim I hope that the Treasurer will give deep that incorrect information is given to them; consideration to the suggestion I am about that they are told they will have no difficulty to make. I have not used my preliminary in finding a home and settling into a suburb complimentary remarks as a lead-up to this, and becoming part of the community. The although I admit that the Treasurer could main criticism that I have heard from well be excused for becoming rather newcomers from England is that the infor­ suspiciOus. When one hears tributes at the mation given to them at Queensland House start of a speech and a smooth beginning, is inadequate. I raise the matter in the one can be excused for thinking that they hope that, when it is being considered in are leading to something else. other quarters, some consideration may be M:r. Murray: Are you sure that you are given to the procedure used in disseminating not heading that way? information to people intending to come to Queensland, because it is very important that Mr. DEAN: No. I assure the Treasurer they should know what conrlitions are like in that I am a long way from what I want this part of the world. The Public Service to say finally. In the Estimates there is an Commissioner's Department is deserving of item "Air transport of country members." commendation. In the Public Service I do not want country members to think Commissioner we have an officer of high that I wish to deny them this privilege; repute and integrity. My remarks in regard in my opinion it should be extended to to Mr. Fraser have equal application to other ·some extent in their case; but metropolitan senior officers. Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 575

Mr. Bromley: He is one of the best public system of teaching music in State schools. servants we have ever had. Greater benefit should be flowing from the system of musical education than we are Mr. DEAN: That is true. When one getting. approaches Mr. Fraser one gets the utmost co-operation and consideration of the Mr. Hughes: Generally speaking, don't you problems placed before him. think that Queensland schools rate second to none in the Commonwealth? The Director-General of Industrial Development is an officer who is thoroughly Mr. DEAN: I am not speaking about the trained and is trying to do something for this school curriculum but about teaching the art State. I hope that in his search for areas of music. For many years it has been my for industrial development he will take full privilege to be connected with the musical advantage of the lands available in and life of this city. Closely allied to that interest, around Brisbane. In my electorate much I have been a member of various committees land is available for industrial development in control of concerts and the musical culture and I hope in the near future consideration of Brisbane. I have discussed with my col­ will be given to the development of land on leagues on those committees why we are not the banks of Cabbage Tree Creek as this getting the flow of students at opportunity would have an immense influence upon the concerts in the City Hall. We are getting development of the town of Sandgate as an very few from the schools taking the oppor­ urban area. tunity of obtaining concert and platform experience. I do not know where the weak­ I pay tribute also to the Director-General ness lies, and I have come to the conclusion of Education and his staff for their work. that there must be something wrong with the From time to time I have problems of an system. Some time ago special teachers were educational character that demand their brought out from Great Britain to teach attention and the benefit of their knowledge stringed-instrument playing. The string sec­ is always readily given. I have no hesitation tion has always been weak. However, this in saying that I get the utmost co-operation teaching has now terminated in many schools. from them. I think every member of the I do not know why, but evidently interest has Committee will agree that in their approaches waned. School children should be encouraged to these officers-from the senior officers in musical appreciation by helping them with right down to the most junior-full co-opera­ the purchase of instruments and the main­ tion is freely given. tenance of them. Whilst on the subject of schools, the State There is something wrong with the set-up High School in Sandgate would be considered of the Conservatorium of Music. I do not to be one of the best in the State as to site mean that there is anything wrong with the and construction, but the existing toilet director. I know Mr. J ones very well-he is facilities have been worrying the staff and a close friend of mine. But there must be parents for some time. I sincerely hope it something wrong with the policy laid down will not be long before a more adequate by the Government for the conservatorium septic system is installed so that the school to follow. Since it was established some can be conducted without the terrible tanker years ago only one musician has been turned system that daily operates from that school. out to join the Queensland Symphony Ir is a terrible system. I repeat that it is a Orchestra. Unfortunately the conservatorium very fine school and its principal, Mr. A. Vise, is not fulfilling the purpose for which it was is a very fine teacher. I do not think it is established. In the past when mention was fair to him or to the staff generally, or to made about the shortage of musicians in the the pupils either, that they have to put up Queensland Symphony Orchestra it was said with this obnoxious tanker system. In a that we would always have a shortage while school of this size such a system presents a there was no Conservatorium of Music to pi.!rticular problem. call upon. Although we have had it now for Some people might say that sewerage wiii some years, to my knowledge only one be installed in Sandgate in the near future, musician from the conservatorium-a clar­ but I do not think that we can expect the inet player-has joined the symphony whole of S'andgate to be sewered within the orchestra. next five years. So I think some immediate Mr. Pizzey interjected. consideration must be given to relieving the school of this obnoxious problem. Mr. DEAN: One of the reasons many do I should like now to make some reference not join is that they are not turned out from to the musical side of education. There the conservatorium to join. One of the appears to be a great weakness in the system reasons for southern musicians not joining is of musical instruction in our schools. I am that the salaries are not good enough. It not casting any reflection upon the teachers or would take me all night to go into the set-up the musicians who teach the children, but of the A.B.C. and its salaries. No doubt the somewhere along the line there seems to be a Minister knows that the base salary of the weakness or a missing link because immedi­ average musician in the orchestra is about ately children leave school they lose interest £25 a week. There is an A.B.C. loading rate, in music. Some consideration should be but it is not extended to all the players. It given to investigating or inquiring into the is only by favour of the A.B.C. If they like 576 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

a particular musician or think he is worth it managing an institution of that magnitude is they give him the extra loading, but there is not an easy task. The institution caters for no compulsion to give it to him. There are about 1,000 people representing all sections many problems associated with musicians. of the community, whether they are suffering This is a very serious matter: we make a from old age or infirmities. Chronic cases fairly generous grant to the orchestra, as does are taken as well, which is more than can the Brisbane City Council, but at the moment be said for some private institutions and the committee controlling the orchestra is convalescent homes. Such places have a very concerned and its members can see more choice of the people they take in. Chronic difficulties in the future. cases are catered for at "Eventide", and are well looked after; the manager welcomes Mr. Piz_z;ey: Quite a few go overseas when them. He feels he has a responsibility as they finish with the conservatorium so that a public servant to look after these people, they may gain more experience. and 1 think that he and his competent staff Mr. DEAN: Not too many go overseas; should be commended for the work they only some of the younger ones. I believe do. On the engineering side we have Mr. they should be able to reach a fairly high Jackson who has been with the institution standard of efficiency here, without going for many years. He came across to Sandgate overseas. In fact, they should be able to from the original home at Dunwich, and plays his part very fully in the maintenance reach a high standard of efficiency before and administration of the engineering section. contemplating overseas travel. For a long time he has been responsible for One of the main troubles is that the base the beautification of the whole of the grounds salary is quite inadequate. We can liken it at "Eventide", and he has been ably assisted to the salaries in industry. The payment of by the Government Supervisor of Gardens, a fair and decent remuneration is the prob­ Mr. Bull. The gardens at "Eventide" are a lem that the Government must face. No-one credit to the people who look after them can deny that tradesmen are well and truly and they cast a very favourable reflection behind compared with the salaries received on the institution. They attract a lot of in some dead-end callings in industry. attention from time to time and quite a I again express my appreciation for the number of tourists who visit Sandgate are work done by our various hospitals boards, impressed by them. Many favourable com­ superintendents and others in a supervisory ments are made about the institution's capacity. I have known Dr. Pye for many gardens. years. He has given great service to the I should like to bring before the Chamber State. He has very high qualifications and a subject of very great importance-or great experience. He is a humane admini­ perhaps I should say grave importance. I strator and his method of handling staff is refer to the mentally-handicapped people of to his credit. He deserves every commen­ our community. I know that the Govern­ dation for the job he does and it is not an ment does a lot to assist those who easy one. It calls for a man with quali­ are, unfortunately, mentally handicapped, fications and ability, and that he has these but I should like to stress the importance of qualifications is ably demonstrated by the a little more effort on the part of the length of time he has been superintendent of Government in regard to the many young the North Brisbane Hospitals Board. children who are mentally handicapped. We I know there is a remote possibility of are informed by statistics that the percentage a hospital being established in the Sandgate of mentally-retarded children in Australia electorate. At this stage I think I should is the same as it is in America. Three per give expression to the wishes of the people cent. of the children born in Australia suffer in my electorate by saying that they would from some form of mental retardation. This like a first-class medical clinic. Many people matter is becoming increasingly important, believe that it would fill the main require­ for we see in news items from time to time ments of the medical attention required as that the incidence of these abnormalities is increasing. It calls for the greatest effort we are only 10 or 11 miles from the citv. the Government can make to bring about Other than at peak hours it does not take the highest degree of comfort for these long to transport a patient from Sandgate unfortunate people. Children, in particular, to the General Hospital. As with other claim special attention, and there are in the outside areas, the peak hours cause the community people who devote their time to trouble. I emphasise that a clinic is of the relief of them. They are, however, great importance to Sandgate. restricted by their limited means of raising [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] finance and providing amenities, particularly buildings to house them. Mr. DEAN: Mr. Campbell, in speaking on the great work that is carried on It was my privilege in the early part of at "Eventide", Sandgate, I should like to pay this year to have a conversation with Mrs. my respects and compliments to the manager T. S. McConnell, Principal of the Bowen and his staff. The job they do is of House Centre at Bowen Hills, prior to her great importance and is greatly appreciated leaving for overseas to represent the Queens­ by the majority of people who reside at land Sub-Normal Children's Welfare Associa­ "Eventide". As hon. members know, tion at the International Conference on Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 577

Mental Health which was to be held at The problem has concerned me for some Copenhagen. From my conversation with time, because as I have travelled round my Mrs. McConnell and on information gained electorate I have found many parents who from reading of her work in this field, have had the great misfortune to have a I pay a high compliment to her and her staff mentally-retarded child. Their main concern on the magnificent job being done at this is not so much for the present-it is great centre. enough-but it is the future that worries them. Many times parents have said to me, "What The centre provides, in particular, training will happen to my daughter or son when I for sub-normal children and adolescents aged pass on? Where will they go eventually?" We from 6 to 18 years of age who are resident all know that at the moment most of them in or near Brisbane. The work done is really can only be committed to an asylum or an outstanding, and I know that some hon. institution. But with an extension of the members have paid a visit to sections of this work that is now being done-I refer par­ institution. One of the newest additions is ticularly to the work at Bowen House Schonell House, which caters to a specialised Centre-I think we can at least give many degree for many of these youngsters. I parents who have mentally-retarded children commend to hon. members a visit to the some hope that their children will pass the institution so that they can see for themselves remainder of their days in peaceful sur­ the work done for these unfortunate children. roundings and be looked after in a kind and The children at Bowen House come from humane way. all over Brisbane and from the homes of the In doing this, the Government and the rich and poor alike. They are the children people of Queensland will only be carrying of professional men, businessmen, tradesmen, out their obligations within the framework and those in all other sections of the com­ of the Declaration of Human Rights of the munity. One child in every 100 families, I United Nations General Assembly. I believe believe, is sub-normal. That is a very high that the problem of mental retardation percentage. Perhaps in the future, science among young people, particularly among may discover means of reducing the inci­ infants, ranks very high indeed with the dence of mental retardation in children. At United Nations, because not only do they present, the community is confronted with have regard for the rights of the physically a rapid increase in mental retardation. handicapped, but they also lay great stress According to the figures that I have before on the rightful place of the mentally-retarded me, there are in Queensland at present 1,200 child in society and our responsibility to it. sub-normal children between the ages of 6 To make it quite clear, Article 5 of the and 16 years. In conversation with Mrs. declaration lays it down that the child shall McConnell, she has told me that one of her be given the special treatment, education and most cherished desires and hopes is the care required by its particular mental establishment of a nursery for the very condition. young. She looks forward to the day, which In my opinion, the Government should she sincerely hopes will not be long in com­ accelerate its present programme of providing ing, when the means will be found of estab­ institutional accommodation for these people lishing a nursery at Bowen Hills, or ·some­ so that their parents can make the provision where nearby, for the care and early train­ for them to which I have just referred. ing of infants. Facilities do not exist in the ordinary family I am informed that many of the infants home today to cope with such a grave brought to the institution are the children of problem. Those over the age of 16 years, parents who are in indigent circumstances who are really out of the child stage and are and who have found the burden of looking capable of doing certain types of work, should after them in the home almost unbearable. be assisted, where possible, by being placed Of course, as these children grow older, the in employment. As we know, that is done at burden becomes much greater. That is why certain levels at present, and I have found I think the Government should give a definite that in Scotland this particular problem is lead. As I said earlier, I know that the viewed so seriously in the community that Government does a certain amount. However, an Act of Parliament has been passed which these matters should be kept in their correct provides that people are employable up to a perspective. However, what has been achieved certain stage. The law in Scotland is that here in looking after these unfortunate people all employers with 20 or more employees falls far short of achievements in a similar must employ a quota of 3 per cent. of field overseas. No society can afford to registered disabled persons in this particular forget that it is the dutv of the authorities category. If they are employable and can to provide or secure suitable training and make some contribution by way of gainful occupations for mentally-handicapped per­ employment, the Government insists that they sons, and occupations are very important. No matter how small the task may be, these are duty bound to put on such persons and people should be encouraged to do something give them an opportunity. I feel that if that will occupy their time instead of just something like that can be done in Scotland sitting or lying around and becoming com­ it can also be done in this State to help pletely useless. I am sure that all hon. mentally-handicapped people, and legislation members will a_gree with me that whatever introduced to provide industrial opportunities success we can achieve is well worth while. for them-- 578 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Dewar: It needs much more than to provide these occupational centres. Of legislation. Your Government passed the course, the same old cry of lack of money Backward Persons Act in 193ll but did will be raised again. Nevertheless, the money nothing about it. can be found; it is found for other things and I feel it should be found for this very Mr. DEAN: I am not concerned about vital problem. what the Minister calls "my Government". I did not happen to be in the Government I also consider that these occupational at that time. That is many years ago and centres should be attached administratively we do not want to live in the past. I am to the special schools, but in separate not condoning what was done years ago. buildings so that they are well apart from I am concerned with the present and the one another. At the same time use should future, and I feel that we could do much be made of the staff on an interchange basis more than we are doing today if we want without the need to have specially trained to build ourselves up in the eyes of other staff in each department. This would mean countries in the world that are trying to that we could transfer staff from one centre do the right thing by mentally-handicapped to another, each being within reasonable people. distance of the other but far enough away that fraternisation could not take place Mr. Dewar: More has been done in three between the two groups of children. Literature years by this Government than was done over from overseas shows that many countries a period of 100 years previously in practise this. They have these schools within Queensland. a reasonable distance of each other so that they can make full use of the teaching staffs. Mr. DEAN: If we are going to rest on Speaking for myself, and I think every hon. what is done or not done the main sufferers member must have had some experience of will be the people themselves. We are not this, I find that in some homes these unfor­ concerned about the whys and wherefores of tunate children are well looked after, but what has or has not been done; we are in others, where the living standard is not concerned about what is being done and what it might be, if there is any neglect what must be done now. at all unfortunately the neglect first affects We want more special schools for mentally­ the retarded child. If the Government could defective students. I have spoken on this relieve parents of this responsibility in their particular subject before. These people homes and place the children in the correct should not be subjected to the inconvenience environment in properly constructed buildings of having to mix with ordinary children it would be carrying out a Christian duty. attending ordinary schools. We have had It would relieve the parents of the drudgery experience in our Opportunity Schools with associated with the care of those requiring many of these unfortunate people, especially specialist attention and consideration and give young people who are growing up. They the children an opportunity of being looked may be retarded to a certain point, but at after by properly trained staff. the same time they are sensitive and In stressing the need for residential schools, they know that the reaction of the average, I would wish to carry this facility a little normal child is not always favourable to further by recommending that it be extended them. As a matter of fact, I know of beyond childhood, especially when it is no students who have been very uncomfortable longer possible for interest to be shown by and unhappy indeed because of the attitude parents who find it virtually impossible to towards them of other students. care adequately for their grown-up son or Another vital facility that is required is daughter. That naturally brings me back to a well-equipped occupational centre to provide an earlier statement I made-the fear in not only training but recreation for these the hearts of parents about what will happen people. I form that opinion from information to their son or daughter when they themselves I have gathered from overseas. The occu­ are no longer here. They worry whether pational side is attended to and at the same the child will be just thrown into an time sporting activities and pursuits are institution to pass its time away under brought to these people. conditions that certainly would not carry Many voluntary organisations and associa­ with them any degree of comfort. tions are doing very good work in this In my opinion the State has not made field, but I feel it is too big a job to be the progress it should have made in carrying left entirely to such organisations. The out its duty to provide or secure the provision problem has grown to such magnitude today of suitable training and occupation for that it has got beyond the voluntary worker. mentally-handicapped people over the age of As much as we need the voluntary worker 16 years. With the establishment of such and as much as the voluntary worker can schools it would be only a matter of time help in future activities we see the need to before these children were accepted speed up our interest and our assistance to into the community. Even should it mean these people, to give them the buildings to increased taxation commitments I can think work in and the instructors to help them of no parent who would object to paying live the happiest life possible in their par­ a little extra if he knew that some other ticular circumstances. I feel that it is a parent unfortunately placed with a mentally­ statutory duty of our educational authorities retarded child would get the benefit. Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 579

I know that this is a subject with very between Dalby and Jandowae. They came wide ramifications, and I have touched only from the drought-stricken area just south of briefly on a matter of such great impor­ Tara. The sheep were in the middle of the tance. I realise, as I am sure all hon. road because of the very wet conditions and members do, that the Government must I had to sit there for an hour and help the accept its responsibility and do something drover get them across. quickly for these unfortunate people. In introducing the Budget the Treasurer Mr. SULLIVAN (Condamine) (7.40 p.m.): referred to the possibility of a record wheat I enter this debate to support the Financial crop this year. I am pleased to be able to Statement so ably presented by the Treasurer tell him that during last week, when we were and I do so with a feeling of satisfaction, as in recess, because of bounteous rains over would all members of the Government. I the whole of the wheat-growing areas of the apologise for not being here earlier in the Darling Downs, there is every indication that day to hear the speech of the Leader of the wc will have a record wheat crop this year; Opposition in order to gauge the tempo of that is provided the weather clears up now the debate from the other side of the and we do not get any rust into the crop. Chamber. However, I have listened very The wheat farmers, the dairy farmers and the attentively to the speech of the hon. member graziers are very jubilant, in spite of what for Sandgate, and one or two other Opposi­ Opposition members said at the rural con­ tion members, and I believe that the debate ference of the Australian Labour Party. will prove to be very temperate. That is how it should be when so much development An Opposition Member: They always have is taking place in the State and the employ­ something to put up with-rust or something. ment position is possibly better than it has been for many years. Mr. SULLIVAN: That is part and parcel of the lot of those associated with the In his summary the Treasurer stated­ land. I think most hon. members in this "The Budget contains no new or addi­ Chamber realise that these people are pre­ tional taxes. pared to meet all the challenges. Whilst "It provides for a year of increasing their income is never secure until it is in economic activity. the bank, that is one of the risks they are "It is a development Budget-it is an prepared to take. education Budget." Referring to my support of what the hon. member for Balonne said about the need Mr. Duggan: You had better not say that for more finance for irrigation projects, I because you will be accused of saying nothing. think he dealt with matters in which we are That is the term I used this morning. interested, but he did not enlarge sufficiently Mr. SULLIVAN: People throughout the on what irrigation has done for a very young State, irrespective of their political views, industry in Queensland. I refer to the must welcome a Budget that can be summed prime lamb industry. As the hon. member up in such a way. for Balonne said this afternoon, it has been proved that, with the assistance of irrigation, Mr. Lee: It is bulging with progress. prime lambs can be reared in the St. George area. Any hon. members who have taken Mr. SULLIVAN: The interjection by the the trouble to watch the sales at Cannon hon. member is a very apt one. Possibly Hill over recent months will find that prime it is as good as the Treasurer's comment. lambs from farms in that irrigation area I enter this debate on its first day because have topped the market on many occasions. I was unable to participate in the Address-in­ At the present time the industry is enjoying Reply debate. If I am in order, I should high prices, which have been brought about like to compliment the mover and seconder of by the high prices enjoyed by lamb-growers the motion for the adoption of the Address in the southern States. A study of "Country in Reply. I have read their speeches and I Life" will show that prices in South think that the Government and the Chamber Australia, Victoria, and New South Wales will be much richer by their entry into Parlia­ are as good as, if not better than, prices ment. I am sure most hon. members opposite in Queensland. That is having the effect will agree with that statement, because in of confining southern lambs to their own the short time those two hon. members have markets. In recent years we had deflated been here they have proved themselves to be prices in those localities with a consequent worthy representatives of their electors as influx of lamb into Queensland so that our well as likeable pals. ' market was flooded and the farmer had Earlier in the afternoon I listened with to accept pretty low and unprofitable returns keen interest to the hon. member for for his lambs. Balonne. The very difficult conditions and Realising the problems that exist in the drought-stricken areas in his electorate are prime lamb industry, members on this side responsible for my late arrival today, and I of the Chamber have discussed them in our wish later to refer to the development of a committee on primary industries with the road system in my electorate. I was detained Minister for Primary Industries, the Premier because of a flooded creek. At the approach and other Ministers. As a result of these to it there were 2,700 drought-stricken sheep discussions the Government has set up a full which are agisting on the main stock route and searching inquiry into the meat industry 580 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

in Queensland. I took the opportunity of water is harnessed the possibilities of the sitting in at one of the hearings of the Condamine River basin could surpass those Committee of Inquiry (Livestock and Meat of the Murray River valley. Industry) at Dalby. I feel that the com­ Returning to the Financial Statement, the mittee is very capable and that when its Treasurer stated that this is a Budget for report is made available it should be of development and education. This debate great assistance to the Government. I provides an opportunity to point out what look forward to the presentation of that has been achieved in our own areas. If we report at an early date. The various feel that we are lagging in some respects, primary-producer organisations went to a we have an obligation to draw the Govern­ considerable amount of trouble to put ment's attention to that fact. evidence before the committee of inquiry with a view to assisting it and, in turn, It has been said on many occasions that hoped that their recommendations would be the Government has done a magnificent job acceptable to their particular industries. in the provision of education facilities throughout the State. I think that is acknow­ Mr. Hanson: Are you worried about the ledged by all. I recall vividly the words of decline in domestic consumption of lamb? the hon. member for Gregory when he cam­ mended the Minister for Education and the Mr. SULUVAN: I would not think that Minister for Works on the magnificent job there is a decline in the domestic consump­ that they have done in taking education, tion of lamb. particularly secondary education, to the far­ Mr. Hanson: There was a decline from flung areas of the State. Let me support the 43 lb. to 41· 2 lb. in the 12 months to June, hon. member and tell him what has been 1963. done in my area. Within the boundaries of the Condarnine Mr. SULUVAN: At a sale at Cannon Hill electorate secondary education is available to recently Mr. Frank McMahon, who would about 99 per cent. of the children, and it is possibly know more about the meat industry within reach of their homes because of the than any other person in Queensland, told school transport system introduced by the me that, if the right type of lamb is pro­ Government. This is an important factor duced and marketed at Cannon Hill, there with children in this particular age group is room for 10,000 to be consumed in Bris­ under present conditions. There is no doubt bane alone. Some of these figures that are that people are grateful for it, because I have read and quoted from time to time are often been at functions where the Government has misleading. I am speaking about the been lauded not only by its own supporters development of a young and growing indus­ but also by people who are known to be sup­ try, and I feel that it behoves all of us, porters of the Australian Labour Party. They whether we be Government or Opposition are very fair people who give credit where it members, to do all we can to assist it. is due. In advocating that more money be made I have not had an opportunity of talking with the Minister for Education this after­ available for irrigation, the hon. member noon, but I should like to point out that I for Balonne is playing an important part in have one small problem at Chinchilla, where assisting growers in the St. George area. I he has done a magnificent job in recent years read only this morning that the construction in building a secondary school. A domestic of the second :stage of the Leslie Dam has science wing and a manual training block been deferred. There is, no doubt, a good are needed urgently there. I admit that these reason for it. We are looking forward to facilities are available at the primary school; the completion of the first stage. My col­ but it is almost a mile away, and 20 minutes league the hon. member for Warwick and of the period is taken up in walking to and I have often discussed this subject, and we from it. I have before me a letter from the are very aware of all the benefits that the Minister for Works and Housing in which he darn will bring to farmers who avail them­ states that one new general-purpose class­ selves of this water along the valley of the room, one locker room, and one dressmaking Condamine River. There are farmers in the room, will be provided in the new wing. Brookstead and Cecil Plains areas who are growing cotton in a highly mechanised When I was in Chinchilla on Saturday last, manner. They have proved over the last I discussed this problem with the principal two or three years what a profitable crop of the school and members of his committee, cotton is when grown under irrigation in this and I was asked to impress upon the Minister district. I think that the future of cotton for Education and the Minister for Works growing in this area is assured, provided and Housing that it is imperative that a water is made available. kitchen block be included in that building for the beginning of the new school year. If it is The Deputy Prime Minister, Mr. McEwen, not, girls attending domestic science classes made a statement when he was in Chinchilla will still have to walk to the old primary­ at one time that 'he was amazed at the school buildings and waste 20 minutes that fertility of the soil in the Condamine River should be used in cooking. I draw that matter basin. Speaking to a man who was once a to the attention of the Committee, and I shall neighbour of his in Victoria or southern take it up with the Minister for Education at New South Wales. he said that once this the first available opportunity. Supply (6 OCTOBER] Supply 581

Other than that, I have no complaints. I Similar remarks apply to Chinchilla. believe that we can be proud of what has Additions have been made to the Chinchilla been done in the field of education. The high Hospital and, whilst on a bigger scale than school at Jandowae is running very smoothly the J andowae Hospital, that town has a hos­ and growing in strength from year to year. pital worthy of the people of the district. From Bell, I have a letter asking me to We are looking forward to the commence­ extend an invitation to the Minister for ment at an early date of the new maternity Works and Housing to officially open the hospital at Dalby. Although that hospital Bell High School when he attends the speech is not within the boundaries of my electorate night which I think is on 6 November. I it wiii serve many of the people who live in shall 'be very pleased to extend that invitation it. It is something that has been needed for to him, because in the short time that he has many years. Plans are now being drawn up been a Minister of the Crown he has shown for an early start on it, and again it will be a very sincere understanding of the problems something that will be worthy of the town associated with his responsibilities. In addi­ and district. tion, he has brought to the departments under his control a practical knowledge of what is I refer now to the development of our required, and I forecast a very bright future main roads system. I merely want to submit for him in the long life of this Government. what after all has been common knowledge over the years, namely, the development that Before leaving what has been done by the has taken place in the lifetime of this Govern­ Department of Education, I think that the ment under the drive of the Minister for Government deserves a great deal of credit­ Mines and Main Roads. What is being done this has been at the suggestion of the Minister throughout the State is, to some extent, being for Education-for making a subsidy avail­ done within the boundaries of the Condamine able to small country towns, through local electorate, though we have a problem there authorities, for the building of swimming in that we are within the south-western pools. We at Jandowae will benefit from the division of the Main Roads Department area. subsidy. As Jandowae is only a small centre The Moonie Highway is within that division we found it difficult to build a swimming pool, and a great amount of money has been spent but the decision of the Cabinet to grant a on it. I have no objection to that because, £5,000 subsidy, or gift, towards the construc­ with the development of the oil wells at tion of a swimming pool has made it possible Moonie, it was essential that a bitumen road for us to have one. be pushed through to that area. The Warrego Highway is a top-priority road and I commend the people of Jandowae and there is 18 miles of it within the Wambo district who donated £5,500 as a straight-out shire still needing new construction and gift within three months when they knew we bitumen-sealing. At the present time six were going to get the subsidy plus the miles adjacent to Warra are near completion. Treasury subsidy of 25 per cent. We are Il is the intention of the Main Roads Depart­ looking forward to having a swimming pool ment to push on and complete the other 12 next year, when we will be able to teach our miles. According to a letter I have from children to swim in their early years. I the Shire Clerk of the Wambo Shire Council express the gratitude of the people of that tl::at will be completed by the end of next area to the Government for its understanding, year. and for the contribution it made. The allocation of money to top-priority I have spoken before on the subject of roads is having the effect of delaying the hospitals in my area but I feel that the bitumen-sealing of other roads. We have progress that has been made bears repeating. some important roads in the Wambo shire My only regret is that on the occasion of which will suffer as the result of the money speaking to this Budget the man who was being spent on these top-priority roads. Just responsible for doing so much, the late Dr. after the war, when agriculture extended in Noble, is not here to receive my personal these black-soil areas-I might mention that thanks. There is no doubt that the people in excess of one-third of the State's wheat of that area, as in many other places is grown within the boundaries of the Wambo throughout Queensland, have much to be Shire Council-the council of the day grateful for to the late Minister, Dr. Noble, embarked on a policy of giving everybody for what he did in the establishment of a gravel road. I felt at the time that it was hospitals. Only a very short period prior to a very good policy. If people are harvesting his death he came to J andowae at the grain during the wet weather they need a invitation of the hospital board and performed gravel road to get their produce to the rail­ the official opening of the maternity wing. head. We now have at Jandowae a small hospital I think everybody agreed that the policy which is equal to anything in Queensland for adopted by the Wambo Shire Council at a town of that size. It is worthy of the that time was a very good one. However, people of the district and something they if because of the need to construct these top­ priority roads the sealing of other roads in deserve. Whilst we had to be patient and the area is delayed, all the good work done wait a long time, it is there now as an by the council and the Main Roads Depart­ established fact and will serve the district for ment on these roads will suffer. The Main many years. Roads Department should give very serious 582 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply consideration to the allocation for the Wambo of the mileage limit that is imposed. If Shire Council. Any money that has been these services are to be readily available expended on the Moonie Highway or the it is important for the department to seri­ Warrego Highway, other than on roads which ously consider a more liberal mileage. I had priority under the five-year plan of the could draw a parallel by saying that if a Wambo Shire Council, should not be a charge dairy officer goes out to inspect an area he against its allocation and so interfere with can go from farm to farm, but a soil con­ the construction of these other roads. I servation officer may be in one area today refer particularly to the Bunya Highway and 25 miles away tomorrow. through Bell to Kingaroy, to the boun­ dary of the Kingaroy Shire Council. An Opposition Member: A greater allow­ That road serves a very rich dairying, ance? mixed farming and wheat-growing area. With Mr. SULLIVAN: No, not a greater allow­ the heavy traffic that uses it, it is very ance but a greater distance that they can difficult to keep it in good repair. It will cove~. They may be tied to 5,000 miles or always be difficult to keep in repair until the 6,000 miles, yet travel 8,000 or 9,000 miles. alignment is changed and it is straightened and bitumen-sealed. It is a very important Mr. Wallis-Smith: You think your Govern­ link between the Darling Downs and the ment does not sufficiently appreciate the South Burnett. value of soil conservation? The other road I refer to connects that Mr. SULLIVAN: No Government has road with Cooranga North and Jandowae. done more than this Government in soil Again, with the traffic on that road it will conservation work. Only the other day the be difficult to keep it in good repair until Minister for Lands said that the time has it is bitumen-sealed. That is one matter come to be courageous and compel people I want to take up at an early date with the to enter into soil conservation even if they Minister for Main Roads. During the parlia­ do not want to. mentary recess I had the opportunity of talk­ ing to people who were not just looking after Much is being done and I commend the their own interests but were really concerned Wambo Shire Council for what it is doing. with development. They were very keen The Jimbour Plain is as flat as the floor that this matter be given very serious con­ of this Chamber. It is good wheat-growing sideration. land but we have soil problems there. Much of the water coming from the Great Divid­ While speaking of the responsibilities of ing Range originates within the Wambo the Minister for Main Roads I refer to a shire area, entering the Condamine River problem associated with the axle loading of stock transports. In recent weeks we have and terminating its flow within the Wambo talked about this matter and, at the sugges­ shire area. One of the top engineers from tion of the Premier, with the support of my the Department of Irrigation and Water colleagues, the hon. members for Warwick, Supply has been made available to the Carnarvon, and Balonne, we have been able Wambo shire, which, with the Condamine to bring some genuine transport operators­ River Trust, is tackling this problem as a men who are endeavouring to assist the Main whole, instead of piecemeal. That is the Roads Department, men who realise that onlv successful way to handle soil erosion money is being expended for their benefit problems. It has been stated authoritatively and who want to operate within the law­ that, with a major flood, 5,000 acres of to Brisbane to discuss the problem with arable land is lost to cultivation on the the Minister for Main Roads and his Com­ Darling Downs. We cannot afford to allow missioner. I think that is the right approach that to continue. I know that much work to this problem and some good should come is being done on the Southern Downs to from it. I am very grateful to the Minister solve this problem. Possibly the problem and his Commissioner for the very good hear­ is greater there because of the more nwged ing they gave the transport operators and nature of the country. We just cannot afford my colleagues on that occasion. to allow that kind of situation to continue. The responsibility is on any man associated As I live in, and represent, a primary­ with the land to ensure that when he is producing area, I think I should say some­ finished with the land he hands it on to the thing about the Department of Primary next generation in better order than when he Industries and what it has done to assist received it. I think the farmers are becoming the man on the land. The services avail­ more conscious of that and that the know­ able to the man on the land are of great how of the officers of the department is benefit nowadays. The man on the land being availed of more and more. For that is becoming more conscious of the work reason I make this appeal for consideration done by the various officers and of the ser­ to be given to granting: greater mileages to vices that are available. those officers in their work. I mentioned to the Minister today a little Mr. Walsb: Are you looking after the problem which was brought to my attention railway fettlers out there, too? during the recess when I was having soil conservation work done on my property. Mr. SULLIVAN: I am told that they have The officer pointed out to me that he was never been better looked after. so that having difficulty in covering his area because answers the hon. member's question. Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 583

Mr. Walsh: I thought you might have Warwick, Toowoomba, or wherever it may be forgotten the real workers out there. wanted, is getting the same amount per acre. I feel that the freight rates are excessive. Mr. SULUVAN: Aren't the farmers the They are higher in Queensland than in other real workers? States. I wanted to speak on the private members' Mr. Walsh: Tell us how much it would motion introduced by the hon. member for cost by road. Gympie and seconded by the hon. member for Whitsunday, but it was at a time when· Mr. SULUVAN: The hon. member for we had the transport operators in Brisbane Bundaberg can work that out. I am speaking discussing problems with the Minister for of rail freights. If the hon. member wants Main Roads and his Commissioner. to speak of road transport, he has the oppor­ tunity during this debate. I wish to draw the attentiO:n of the Chamber to what I consider is a matter of I propose to refer to a statement by the necessity. I feel that the Dalby Hospitals Deputy Prime Minister, Mr. McEwen, when Board and the Department of Primary he opened the Victorian Dairy Farmers' Industries could work in close co-operation in Association conference in Victoria in May establishing a research station for the develop­ 1964. He said- ment of various legumes to be grown in black­ "Thirdly, we want a profitable dairy soil areas. At the Jubilee Hospital in Dalby industry as part of a decentralisation there is a farm run very efficiently by Mr. objective. This is something Australia must Gallagher. It is primarily a dairy farm. I have if this country is not to remain as understand that the Dalby Hospitals Board it is today, the most urbanised country in has had discussions with various officers of the whole world: Decentralisation is not the Department of Primary Industries about merely putting a factory in a country town. The most natural form of decentralisation establishing a close liaison between the two. is to make the land industries more If such a farm can be established it will be profitable, more attractive so that more of great value in discovering what legumes people are able and willing and anxious are suitable for these black-soil areas. After to engage in them and sustain decen­ all, if you want a legume in a particular tralisation." black-soil area, it has to be bred in that black-soil area. I feel that if the two I believe that we, as a Government, have a bodies work in conjunction it will be of very grave responsibility to keep our young great benefit to farmers in the whole of the people on the land. Under our present area. It is something I shall endeavour to education system they are able to obtain a take up with the Minister for Primary higher standard of education than formerly, Industries, and perhaps the Minister for and it is imperative that they be retained in Health, at an early date. primary industry so that there will be young men and women trained and educated In the Financial Statement the Treasurer sufficiently well to be leaders in the industry. has made reference to the improved finances of the Railway Department. That is some­ My brother gave me these figures yester­ thing we are all very pleased to see, and, day, and he is a man whom I can trust. in spite of criticisms that have been levelled An Opposition Member: Do you reckon? at the Minister for Transport about the closing down of certain branch lines, it is a Mr. SULUVAN: I do. He grew 570 acres great thing that the finances have improved of wheat last year and his freight bill was to such a degree. £2,100. I would not ask for legislation to The Treasurer mentioned the great con­ cut an area of 600 acres in half, making tribution the wheat industry in Queensland 300 acres a living area. I believe that the is making towards the improved finances of wheat industry has found its living area, the Railway Department. I would be failing which is 600 acres. However, when £2,100 in my duty to my constituents, so many goes out in freight alone, I feel that this of whom are wheat-growers, if I did not at could become two living areas for a father this juncture make a plea to the Treasurer and son or two brothers if worked in con­ and the Premier to give consideration, before junction with one plant. It is absolutely the Budget is introduced next year, to the impossible within the financial structure of granting of some concession to wheat-growers the wheat industry for a farmer to set up and other growers by way of reduced freight three or four sons on separate farms and charges. It would give some relief to that equip them with the machinery necessary to industry. work them efficiently. The freight on wheat is 2s. 1td. a bushel. I feel that giving concessions is one way That might not sound much, but on a 10-bag in which we, as a Government, can do some­ crop of wheat it works out at £3 5s. an acre. thing worth while to assist in keeping these Where wheat is harvested in November, the young men on the land. The Premier is ground ploughed and planted in perhaps May going to the Tara area at the week-end, and of the next year, I, as a wheat farmer, the young men there may possibly put the feel sure that I could work the .ground for same thing to him. These are young lads less than £3 5s. an acre. The Railway Depart­ who are associated with the industry and ment, in hauling the wheat from Dalby, they do not want to leave the land: We Warra, or wherever it may be, to Brisbane, have a responsibility to play our part in 534 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

keeping them there. A man with three or Mr. SULLIVAN: No, he has not ploughed four sons often educates them and then finds any of the country yet. No doubt he will in that they have to look for some other form the future. His idea is that if he runs into a of livelihood. We are opening up land and dry season and does not get any grass up, he throwing it open for ballot, and I do not has only 500 acres of suckers to clear. know of anybody better to keeo on the land than those who are reared on it. Of course; Mr. Tucker: When we suggested this, you I do not want to deprive the man who wants called us knockers. to go onto the land of the opportunity of doing so. If he wins a ballot, good luck to Mr. SULLIVAN: I did not. I have him. But if we can get lads who have been advocated this policy all through. I do not reared on the land to stay on it, I think we mind being charged with something I have shall be meeting our responsibilities. said. So much for that. Again I appeal to the The problem is there and we have to face Premier and the Treasurer, through you, Mr. up to it. At one particular place, the Baxter, to consider during the coming 12 Americans came with great crushers pulling months, before the next Budget is brought the scrub. They contracted to pull it but down, granting some freight concessions to one of the machines broke down so they wheat-growers. crushed the lot. They made a very hot fire In the time left to me, I wish to say some­ of softwood scrub all chopped up, so hot thing about the development of the brigalow that I honestly believe-and so did this young lands in the Fitzroy Basin. During the recess fellow's father, who has had a long associa­ between the February and August sessions of tion with the land-it interfered with the this Parliament I took the opportunity of structure of the soil and it will take a long going there and having a look at what is time for it to recover. Nevertheless, I think being done, and I give full marks to the the country has a great future. Department of Lands and to those people Mr. Walsb: What is the carrying capacity who have been successful in drawing blocks when grassed? for the job that they have done in such a short time. There is no doubt in my mind Mr. SULLIVAN: About one beast to eight about the future of the brigalow country, and acres in the country where I was. That I believe that the people I met are well would be stocking it fairly well in good equipped to develop the land and have the seasons. courage to make good settlers. Mr. O'Dounell: It is being opened in lots There are many problems associated with of 6,000 to 8,000 acres as a living area. the development of brigalow country, and I am afraid that I do not agree with the condi­ Mr. SULLIVAN: That is what these blocks tion that the brigalow scrub be got rid of in are being cut up into. There are some areas the first three years. I believe that the of 17,000 acres. Department of Lands has, even at this early stage, applied that condition somewhat elas­ Mr. Murray: I think the hon. member tically, but I think it is incumbent upon me would agree that as grass pastures such a to bring before the notice of hon. members property you would probably get down to what I saw. at least one beast to four acres, would you When a big area of scrub is pulled, as it not? has been by some of the settlers, they seed Mr. SULLIVAN: Not safely. I would not it, and if they run into a dry period and do like to stock it to that extent-that is, taking not get a strike with the grass, they are in the seasons straight through. In lush seasons, real trouble. I refer particularly to young yes, but I would not like to stock it at Staines, a J andowae lad, who provided us a beast to four acres all the way through. with accommodation when we were there. He has done a magnificent job, as far as he Mr. Murray: That is with legume pastures? can from his own point of view. He has pulled in the vicinity of 3,500 acres of scrub, Mr. SULLIVAN: Yes. As time goes on burnt it, put up 20 miles of fencing, water these fellows will be doing crop-fattening points, a house, turkeys' nests, and water and other things to carry them through. round his yards. He seeded the 3,500 acres Time is pushing on and I think the criticism but did not get rain; now the suckers will that has been levelled at this Government come. That is where the problem lies. I have over the introduction of the Totalisator always said that we should hasten a little Administration Board should be commented slowly in developing brigalow country, and I on. I wish to do this because the first have quoted this example before. I took the T.A.B. office I visited was in the Treasurer's Minister for Lands out and showed him a own area of Coorparoo. It was on the property 60 miles north of Chinchilla where morning of Melbourne Cup day last year. I I think a man is going about it in the right apparently had something to collect. After way. He has pulled 500 to 600 acres each having heard the criticism that has been year and grassed it, and in the five years that levelled at the Government and after having he has been there he has got 2,500 acres of seen the report of T.A.B., it amazes me that Rhodes grass established. people should be so foolish as to utter such Mr. Murray: Does he take it to the plough? statements. Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 585

Mr. Sherrington: You must be a big It is a pity I do not have longer to do winner. so, but I want to come to grips with Mrs. Horan, the president of the Queensland Mr. SULLIVAN: Apart from that, I do Housewives' Association, over the attack she not look at everything from the point of made on the price of bacon. I feel that view of my own personal gain. Let us be she has done an injustice to bacon pro­ sensible about this. On that morning I ducers throughout the State. I do not mind thought nobody knew who I was, but a anyone making a statement as long as he or woman who was a friend of my wife said she tells the whole truth. Mrs. Horan made good morning to me and introduced me to a statement which was headlined in either several other women there. I asked them, "The Courier-Mail" or the "Telegraph" that "Is it a fact that this T.A.B. is making you bacon was selling at 13s. a lb. Bacon was people punt more?" They said, "No, that is selling at 13s. a lb., but it was in t-lb. not so at all." In the majority, these were pressurised packs, with all the fat cut off people who did not want to go to the races it. However, at the same time as that and who preferred to put their bets on and bacon was selling at I3s. a lb., bacon was then go to a football match. Prior to the available to the housewife in Brisbane for introduction of T.A.B., if they did not have 9s. 2d. a lb. access to an S.P. operator hiding around some corner, they had to go to the races and they Mr. Walsh: Still too dear. invariably "did" a lot more money than they intended to. As this woman said, "We Mr. SULUVAN: We have no time to go down on Saturday morning and place our argue whether it was or not. If some hon. bets. We go down and do our shopping on members opposite and Mrs. Horan were to Monday morning and if there is anything to do what some women on the land do to collect we collect it." What better and more assist their husbands-doing it willingly and sane way than that is there of having a loving every minute of it-- little punt? Mr. Walsh: The producer is not getting it. Mr. Tucker: How do you account for the fact that over the last three months Mr. SULLIVAN: I believe the Premier's £1,000,000 more was bet than in 1963? answer was the correct one when he said that the law of supply and demand dictates the Mr. SULLIVAN: It could be that many price of any article. Let us have a look fellows who bet S.P. around the corner have at the headlines in "Queensland Country been put out of the game. I think the Life" of 24 September-"Serious Queensland Treasurer might agree with that, but how Shortage of Beef Cattle." There is a shortage does anybody know what betting went on of beef, and if the·re is a shortage you have under the system of unlicensed bookmakers? to pay for it. You do not hear people I shall quote a case just to give an indication complaining about the price of some luxury of how much money was in it. Twelve commodity that can be bought on hire pur­ years ago a fellow only 12 months older chase. I do not say, of course, that people tran I left Jandowae a very wealthy man should not use hire purchase. although he had never done a day's work in I would be lacking in my responsibility to his !ife. He g_ot all that money out of S.P. the pig producers, and to myself because I bettmg and paid no tax whatever on it. We produce a few, were I not to ask that the colle~t the tax now and those who pay just whole story be told when people make taxatiOn may be left alone a little because charges of this nature. On the front page we get it from the T.A.B. and the S:.P. man we read about beef being dear in Queens­ has been put out of business. land but if we turn to the back page we For the life of me I cannot. understand see that steers were selling in Brisbane at why anyone objects to the T.A.B. The Dalby 215s. a cwt. when at the same time in Race Club was almost insolvent 12 months Adelaide they were selling at 235s. to 250s. ago but now, because of the reimbursement a cwt. Prime yearlings were selling at in excess of £1,000 this year, it is racing Cannon Hill at 215s. to 225s., and in once a month, increasing it prize money and Adelaide at 240s. to 285s. providing an amenity for those who like Mr. Hughes interjected. that type of sport. Mr. SULLIVAN: Can the hon. member Mr. Bromley: You said a minute ago they answer this one: if bacon is dear why is it did not like going to the races. that you can stand in some smallgoods shops and see women come in and buy wrapped Mr. SULUVAN: Who? bacon for 6d. a half lb. or Is. a lb. dearer Mr. Bromley: The people out there. than unwrapped bacon rashers? Unwrapped bacon rashers are just as good in quality Mr. SULUVAN: I think the hon. member as those that are wrapped. Why pay an is a little bit dejected after the gruelling he extra Is. for wrapping? got last week. Apparently his hearing is affected. (Time expired.) 586 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. O'DONNELL (Barcoo) (8.41 p.m.): I repair the roads after their initial contracts do not think anybody has ever misunderstood had been concluded. I was unable to find my remarks about rural sections of Queens­ out the additional cost of the repair work. land, particularly those in my own electorate. Another section was attempted down on I am an advocate of decentralisation. During the Blackall road, in the Blackall shire, and the Address-in-Reply debate I mentioned on this occasion the work of repairing the certain matters which I think are harmful damage was not given to the contractor. to this most important policy. Any sane Consequently, I was able to discover that Government must realise the basis of the repairs cost approximately £30,000 for decentralisation, particularly in the western portion of the State. I am very concerned 5 miles. That included gravel. Hon. mem­ about the effect of rhe policy of the Main bers can see that those experiments, par­ Roads Department in my area. During my ticularly in the black-soil stretches, repre­ early days in this Chamber I was impressed sented double the cost. We know that had by the need for roads and I was also con­ stabilising been a success it would have given cerned about the conflict of ideas expressed us an answer to speedy and efficient road by Main Roads Department engineers and construction, but on the black-soil stretches council authorities. I know very well that it has proved costly because the initial work councils, at that time were, and still are, deteriorated as a result of some engineering eager to build up their day-labour force error. Perhaps the original formula was not because in many centres in the rural parts of the correct one, or perhaps the natural the State road-building is the only industry. features caused the failure. At any rate, the We have seen vast changes in the activities of failure had to be repaired and at additional people engaged in the pastoral industry. cost. Those who have been to the West know that The Main Roads Department has now some wives and families are living on the reverted to the orthodox method of road coast while the husbands go to the pastoral construction, but today a different excuse is lands to carry out seasonal activities. This given to the local authorities. It is no longer is not good for rural Queensland. Road­ the excuse of specialised work requiring building is a very important industry, specialists and special equipment; it is the there although some people do not realise it. need for speed, the need for urgency, in Two or three years ago the Main Roads road construction. As a consequence, the Department adopted a new attitude to coun­ local authorities will not be receiving any­ cils. The councils approached the depart­ thing like the quantity of work they would ment for an extension of day-labour work like to receive from the department to because they thought that they had the right increase the local work force and so build to expand their activities in road con­ up the local towns. This is of great con­ struction work. I was very interested cern to me, and I know very well that it in this matter because I realised that road is of great concern to the local authorities, construction was important. Whenever pro­ especiallv in the Central West. Every oppor­ gressive measures are discussed, not only on tunity of building up local industry must a State basis, but on an Australian basis be availed of, otherwise we shall find a slow road construction is of vital concern: but sure shrinkage of those settlements. Stabilisation experiments were used by the I am really concerned with the fact that department as an excuse with those local although the department is reverting to authorities that wanted more work to build orthodox methods of road construction it is up the local labour force. not giving the councils a better deal. Road My first experience with stabilisation was construction is very costly. I know, for in the Gregory electorate when I accepted instance, that there are four miles to the an invitation to inspect the construction of a east of Barcaldine, towards Jericho I think, section of road from Ilfracombe to Isisford. that will cost £43,000 to construct. That I can say that I was very impressed. How­ work is to be done in the next ever, there is a natural feature on that road financial year by the Barcaldine Shire Council. which is relatively convenient in that there is There is a cost of £43,000 for four miles, sandy loam available for road construction. I because of the difficulty of the terrain. We followed up with some queries on the success can therefore understand that road construc­ of the strip from the small town of Ilfra­ tion is expensive. However, the private con­ combe down towards Isisford, but I could tractors are receiving most of this work, and it never obtain the cost per mile from anyone. I is my opinion that, although the Government was usually given the answer that the Main advocates private enterprise and is carrying Roads Department was very satisfied with out its policy by constructing sections of the experiment. road by tenders from private contractors, it is now falling down in this aspect because Further experiments were made with black it has not realised that it has run out of soil, particularly outside Barcaldine. There contractors. Consequently the tenderers are were two 5-mile stretches and, if my memory going to suit themselves. serves me correctly, they were given to two different contractors. Those two stretches To take an illustration from some notes over black soil turned out to be costly that I have made, I think that it is the plan failures. As a matter of fact, both con­ of the Main Roads Department to complete tractors received additional contracts to the section of the Landsborough Highway Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 587 between Barcaldine and Longreach by illegal actions would have more importance December, 1965. In so doing, two when they were competing with the Totali­ contracts are involved. One is for 14 · 8 sator Administration Board, there were bound miles in the Barcaldine shire, for which to be repercussions. As a result of these tenders were called on 26 September and will activities, an inspector of police, a sergeant close on 1 December. For that stretch of in charge of a four-man station, and a road there will probably be two tenderers, policeman in charge of a two-man station they being Teitzel and perhaps Zaanend. For that is an overtime station and a C.P.S. the other stretch of 17 miles, which is in the office, were transferred. I want to tell you Ilfracombe shire and the Gregory electorate, what happened to these three officers, the contract has already been let to Teitzel. Mr. Baxter, and ask you whether you think He is at present operating between Emerald what happened was fair. The inspector was and Rockhampton on the Tolmes, the last transferred to Brisbane. He would lose only section of that road to be completed. his western allowance. The sergeant in charge We therefore see the policy failing because of the four-man station was also transferred the Government is not helping decentralisa­ to Brisbane, and he would not lose anything tion by allowing local authorities to build up other than his western allowance. After a their local labour forces, and is not succeed­ short period in Brisbane, this officer who ing in obtaining competitive tenders because had received a disciplinary transfer-that is tenderers are in short supply. Those two obvious; one does not have to be Sherlock points, I think, are very important. I regret Holmes to work it out-received his long that I have to speak in this way because, as service and good conduct medal and recently I have said, roads in Australia are important was promoted to sergeant first-class. The items. If we had had success from the stabili­ third man, who also came to Brisbane, lost sation method, we would have had speedy £260 a year overtime, plus his C.P.S. and efficient construction. There may then allowance. I ask you, Mr. Baxter, whether have been very good reason to allow local you consider that those three men were authorities to stick to the work on their own treated equally. I think you would agree roads. The policy followed today is, with that the third man did not receive fair other tendencies, contributing to a departure treatment. As I said, the transfers arose from the decentralisation that is so urgently from one activity that occurred in the area, desired. that is, permitting illegal bookmakers to compete with the T.A.B. Hon. members Like a bolt from the blue we heard the can understand that it is a matter of some other day a statement which caused con­ concern. sternation in Brisbane and obtained headlines But that is only a small item compared in the Press. It concerned the closure of with the latest one. Recently the police certain police stations in Brisbane. That this station at Springsure was declared vacant. proposal was kept so well under cover indi­ In other words, the officer-in-charge was cated to me that the Government realised that under disciplinary transfer, which he received there would be a good deal of comment and on 24 September. This is one transfer that criticism if what was going to happen had I think is, to put it mildly, over the fence. been made known to the people. So it was Nobody made a written complaint against allowed to come quickly in the hope, I sup­ that officer. The Commissioner of Police pose, that people would be too stunned to said that he had a quarrel with the local object before its implementation. To my council. The council did not make any mind, some people within the department official complaint to any officer superior to have incorrectly advised the Minister, and he, him in the Police Department, or to any in turn, has passed the incorrect advice on to member of Parliament. It is important to Cabinet. realise that today in that town there exists However, many hon. members representing the original of a petition containing 400 metropolitan seats will deal with this matter, signatures, a copy of which I presented to and I wish to deal with another aspect of the Minister in charge of police, asking that police administration. It has concerned me that officer be retained there because in the estimation of those people he has done a greatly because, as we all know, from time good job. to time the administration has to take disciplinary action against some of its officers. The point is that somewhere along the line We know, too, that people who live in the somebody has advised the Minister wrongly. country get to know their police officers Into somebody's ear some individual poured very intimately. As a consequence, they have a story which was passed on to the Minister varying ties of friendship or ties of enmity, in charge of police. In this instance I should if I may call them that, with them and, of say that he has been wrongly advised not course, points of criticism of the from inside, as he was over the closure of administration. the police stations, but from the outside. In other words, this transfer has political signifi­ Towards the end of last year there were cance, and in that town and district at least certain activities by the licensing squad in two men are under suspicion. the west of Queensland that resulted in at least two bookmakers being proceeded against. I repeat that the council as a body denies They had been operating illegally, and that officially it took any action against this because in the eyes of the Government their man. Therefore, as I pointed out to the 588 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Minister in a letter that I wrote to him, we I can add any more to that plea. In addition have two aspects of the matter. If it was to the criticism that is going to be levelled a dispute with the council that caused this' at the Minister in the next week or so over transfer it must have been a councillor who h;s unwise action in closing police stations in has done this, but this policeman also has and around Brisbane he will have to face difficult duties and from time to time he has the fact that in the short space of time of to investigate the cattle industry. I can tell less than 12 months we have had these hon. members that there are many touchy instances of unfair treatment meted out to people in that industry, and if they know responsible police officers. their way around they are very quick to take umbrage and pass complaints on to certain In the second instance, I think all the sources, sincerely hoping that a meddlesome circumstances surrounding it would be of officer will be removed to farther fields. great concern to the Police Fmce as a whole in this State and also to other public I repeat that this is a case where the servants in positions of authority. If we Minister in charge of police has been wrongly are going to talk about honesty of advised from outside. I state emphatically Government we must be very careful that that he knew of this transfer on 24 September politics do not enter into appointments or because it would be fresh in his mind as I promotions merely to serve the interests of had made my representations to him, and a few. he was in possession of the copy of the petition. Yesterday I received a letter from I want to pass on now to something that him in answer to a letter addressed to him a has worried me for quite a time. I do not week ago. He was, I reiterate, familiar with want to bring up the whole subject of the the case because the transfer was made public closure of railway branch lines but merely on 24 September. the closure of one. We had our pioneers This is what he said- in the past. Governments had rightly conceded that these pioneers should "1 have to acknowledge your further receive as much assistance as possible from personal representations on behalf of the State. We have heard an hon. member residents of the Bauhinia Shire, objecting tonight asking for assistance for the wheat to the transfer of Sergeant R. Lindores industry. He was complaining about railway from Springsure. freights. He wants, as he says, assistance for "Your present request has been noted his industry. There is one railway line in and I shall write again to you concerning Queensland marked for demolition next year this matter as soon as practicable." which could be of assistance to primary pro­ ducers who are about to pioneer a new section As I have illustrated in the first instance, of this State. I refer to the Roma-Injune after the raids took place on the illegally railway line. I am particularly concerned operating bookmakers we had an unfair about this line. I have to say one or two transfer and this is obviously more so. things tonight which will affeot some hon. If we are going to have police offi­ members who are not in the Chamber but cers, teachers and other responsible public who were here earlier today. However, one servants throughout the countryside placed hon. gentleman who is concerned is here. I at the mercy of a single person who happens refer to the Treasurer. I opposed the closure to have political influence we shall not have of this line immediately the list was pub­ a very happy State. I ask the Minister in lished. As I pointed out, it is of particular all fairness to reconsider this transfer. I con­ importance to the brigalow lands develop­ ment. It was said to be losing £62,000 a tend that one person's opinion is worth year. Everyone who knows the district nothing against the expression of opinion of knows that the line is only 62 miles long and 400 people. I challenge anybody to go I do not know how that figure could be through that list and tell me who could be arrived at. I do not see how it can possibly coerced into signing a petition of that nature be correot, but that was the loss debited to it. in that centre. The people there feel that this is a case where an injustice has been J have a very interesting letter which done. shows how people can turn their backs on an unsympathetic Government. It is from I ask the Minister to go into the matter the Central Coastal Graziers' Association of more fully to ascertain the real reason for Queensland and it asked me to meet a depu­ what happened. If he is not prepared to tation from the Association on 16 April at disclose the real reason why this man is being Springsure. On that same day, at Spring­ transferred-the reason given to him directly sure, the civic centre was opened, and the or indirectly-he is being unjust. This Treasurer was present to perform the official officer will move on to his new station opening. These people were so concerned as an object of suspicion to his superior that their deputation was not to the officers. Not only will he lose his overtime­ Treasurer but to me because they knew I this is an overtime station-which means a was 'Sympathetic. However, after meeting penalty of about £5 a week, but he will also the deputation. at the function that night I lose his prestige in a community that he has spoke to the Treasurer, who, to my surprise. served well for many years. I do not think was sympathetic. He also said that he would Supply [6 OCTOBER] Supply 589

address himself to the Minister for Trans­ somebody who had wisdom said, "If you port on the matter. When I made repre­ want to make it an all-weather road you will sentations to the Minister for Transport, have to spend £500,000 and it will take at what did I find? This is a letter from him- least 10 years to do the job." I advise the "Cabinet's decision in February, 1964, hon. member for Roma to take a walk down was to the effect 'that on the Roma to to the U.G.A. office and read the letter that Injune Branch the Railway Department was sent to the Minister for Transport. That discontinue other than vital expenditure. railway is most important to the people on the That the Main Roads Department be land-and I am not worried about their requested to hasten improvements so that politics. People in the Arcadia region will a reasonable all-weather road be available be fighting a solid battle to get on their feet. from 30/6/1965. That rail services of the If these people do well in that area, it will Branch discontinue on 30/6/1965 or not only be a cattle area but it will also be a earlier should the Main Roads Department grain producing district. The only out­ consider that prior to that date the road let will be through Injune, and that is reasonably all-weather.' " will all be to the benefit of the hon. member for Roma if he does the That was Cabinet's decision and the right thing. If the Government does not Treasurer must have known it at the very do the right thing, these people will not moment he was being sympathetic to me. If forget it. After all, the pioneers of the past he had told me of Cabinet's decision I would were given railway lines in days when money have appreciated it because I went to the was very much harder to find than it is in trouble of preparing a long case. these days of prosperity. The Treasurer is In the last paragraph of his letter this is allowing for a deficit of £500,000, and that what the Minister for Transport said- is exactly the cost of that road. We are "Whilst I appreciate the points raised in certainly not going to get that road by 30 your representations, such development as June next year, and these people will have to outlined by you was considered prior to pay the piper because no road-transport the Cabinet deci·sion and it was decided operator is going to take his vehicle over that transport from the area would best almost untrafficable roads unless somebody be served by road, and, consequently, that pays extra for this rather doubtful practice. portion of Cabinet's decision relating to If somebody driving over a good road quotes the approach to the Main Roads Depart­ 6s. a mile, he will probably want ls. or 2s. a ment was so embodied in the resolution. mile extra, which is going to be paid by the primary producer. They are the people for "Planning along the lines outlined in v,hom the hon. member for Condamine was the Cabinet's decision is proceeding." barracking tonight: the grain-growers and the My voice did not go unheard, although the wheat-growers, who want reduced freights for hon. member for Roma did not do anything their crops. As well, we want an all-weather to help. This line is in his electorate and road constructed by the Government of today, it should have been his interest, even though because if the railway goes who is going to the Arcadia section of the brigalow lands put it back again? The people who go into development scheme is in my electorate. that country have a big enough load around Mr. Ewan: What date is that letter? their necks now. Anybody who is going into that brigalow area really has the job Mr. O'DONNELL: 2 April, 1964. in front of him. Mr. Ewan: I was in it three months before Again we have heard from the expert on you even thought about it. brigalow tonight. He spoke about clearing 500 acres a year. That was a commendable Mr. O'DONNELL: I discussed this matter approach. I am glad the Minister for Lands with the hon. member for Roma, and he told is here, and I am repeating this for his bene­ me that the Roma people wanted the line fit. The hon. member for Condamine told closed. He was emphatic that road transport, us about clearing small sections at a time, but which apparently operates extensively in the the brigalow development scheme could Roma district, will more than compensate for demand the clearing of up to 2,000 acres of the closure of the railway line. Those were brigalow a year. This condition is printed on his exact words. Consequently, I can tell the lithographs. These people have an hon. members that the graziers in the Roma enormous task, and it is the responsibility district have changed their minds. of the Government to give them the amenity Mr. Ewan: Oh, rats! of rail transport to help them over their early Mr. O'DONNELL: If the hon. member for difficulties. I asked in my representations Roma wishes to go to the United Graziers' that the railway line be left there for 10 Association office, he will find that their years; I did not ask that it be left for ever. representations included a comment from the I did not get much encouragement from the graziers in the Roma district. At that time hon. member for Roma, and I was very the matter was raised at graziers' meetings disappointed in the Treasurer's attitude. and the hon. member for Roma was in I must now mention something that attendance. It was some consolation to the happened only yesterday. Because of an graziers at that time to know that £290 000- electrical fault at the Blackall State School, odd was going to be spent on that road: but 11 classrooms were lost by fire. 590 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Mr. Bromley: They do not supply . fire extinguishers there, either.

Mr. O'DONNELL: That is not the point I want to raise now. One report states that the electrical fault was in the staff room and another states that it was in the ceiling. The fire developed so quickly that the building was in flames in no time. Eleven classrooms were lost. I now want to bring to the attention of hon. members, if they do not already know of it, the wonderful gesture of the people of Blackall. The Blackall Show Society has made available its buildings for the use of the children. The two large pavilions will take eight grades. The tennis club house will take two grades, and the secretary's office will become the head teacher's office. Another building will become the staff room. That is a generous gesture. All that the Department of Education is asked to meet are running costs. The children have been taken into the showground and set up in classes there. I think that that action should go on record. I was telephoned this morning by Councillor Greenhalgh, Chairman of the Blackall Shire Council, who informed me of these arrangements. That is why I mention them tonight. He asked me to do one thing, and that was to approach the Minister to see if the 5howground and its buildings could be returned to the show society by next March so that the society can proceed with its annual programme. I point out that the loss of the 11 class­ rooms will be very costly indeed. Replacing them will mean an expenditure of at least £60,000. It is important to realise that at least the education of the children will be uninterrupted. I have had the greatest co-operation from Mr. Guymer, the Director of Primary Education. He spoke to me and guaranteed that furniture and other ~equisites would be rushed to Blackall. The Acting Regional Director, Mr. Reithmuller, has already visited the town. Mr. Parker, the Works Department supervisor, has also been there. Everything is under control so far as the Department of Education is concerned. This goes to show very well to the Minister for Education and the Minister for Works what efficient officers they have. I could not let this occasion pass without bringing to the notice of all hon. members this fine gesture by the Blackall Show Society. When it is known that the society is prepared to go unrewarded and accept from the depart­ ment only the actual running costs associated with the buildings and the grounds, I am sure that appreciation will be expressed by one and all. Progress reported.

The House adjourned at 9.27 p.m.