Webinar

ULI Japan: Art and the City - Japanese Version Date: December 16, 2020

00:00:03 --> Rimori Barry and work to warry Ah last of your 00:00:10: 00:00:10 --> welcome. 00:00:12: 00:00:12 --> Thank you very much for your continued support. 00:00:18: 00:00:18 --> Today, I would like to look at the development of 00:00:22: 00:00:22 --> Sakae-cho from a different perspective. 00:00:25: 00:00:26 --> I am honored to have invited two wonderful panel people 00:00:33: 00:00:33 --> like cats. 00:00:34: 00:00:36 --> It's usually nice to have you submit your question. 00:00:41: 00:00:41 --> And we introduce it in the room share form of 00:00:48: 00:00:48 --> bed today we have to power 3. 00:00:52: 00:00:52 --> Well, first of all, we will provide you with a 00:00:56: 00:00:56 --> short presentation, so the first type is the director of 00:01:00: 00:01:00 --> the Guard Museum. 00:01:02: 00:01:02 --> I'm M. Kataoka. 00:01:03: 00:01:05 --> Then the satellite is also beautiful at the Peace Gallery 00:01:09: 00:01:09 --> in gallery london. 00:01:11: 00:01:13 --> English international collection The director is required to be a 00:01:17: 00:01:17 --> collection of modern art. I may have been told what 00:01:21:

1 00:01:21 --> I wanted to say. And just recently. Did you cut 00:01:24: 00:01:24 --> it at the Mori Art Museum? And enemas are stopped. 00:01:27: 00:01:27 --> The time is Dr. Sou Fujimoto, and we are currently 00:01:30: 00:01:30 --> 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00:01:34: 00:01:35 --> He has also been a producer of the international exhibition 00:01:38: 00:01:38 --> a. 00:01:38: 00:01:42 --> It is also 1000000000000000000000000 00:01:46: 00:01:46 --> We work on various construction works with Japanese architecture. 00:01:53: 00:01:55 --> While I am busy like a cat, I am glad 00:01:57: 00:01:57 --> that I can hear the discussion between the two of 00:02:00: 00:02:01 --> you. 00:02:01: 00:02:01 --> First of all, I would like to have a brief 00:02:04: 00:02:04 --> presentation from two people and have a discussion about the 00:02:08: 00:02:08 --> waiting. 00:02:09: 00:02:09 --> Mr. Kataoka, please. 00:02:11: 00:02:13 --> Well, that's not the case. 00:02:15: 00:02:18 --> Start your presentation with a simple theme. Thank you. 00:02:23: 00:02:32 --> I'm a little sorry for the vegetables I did earlier. 00:02:37: 00:02:52 --> Eh, what about that art today? I received that title 00:02:55: 00:02:55 --> because of the added value of Seto City. 00:02:58: 00:02:59 --> I thought it was quite meaty for me, and when 00:03:03: 00:03:03 --> I thought about how it would change if it fit 00:03:06: 00:03:06 --> my age, that was it. 00:03:08: 00:03:08 --> Well, the Mori Art Museum is called such a museum. 00:03:12:

2 00:03:12 --> Well, there are static mart facilities, and then they exist. 00:03:16: 00:03:16 --> After that, I think that it becomes a story that 00:03:20: 00:03:20 --> it is public art well, and, well, both of these 00:03:23: 00:03:23 --> are fairly high fixed. 00:03:25: 00:03:25 --> Well, I think it's become a presence that stays there, 00:03:29: 00:03:29 --> but actually. 00:03:30: 00:03:32 --> There are exhibitions that unfold in the museum, and well 00:03:37: 00:03:37 --> from the learning program, there are trainers, etc., but these 00:03:42: 00:03:42 --> things are also held in each Matsushima town in Japan, 00:03:47: 00:03:47 --> but this is a limited-time or variable, well-one-natured program, so 00:03:53: 00:03:53 --> it's not that hard, it's the content in it, I 00:03:57: 00:03:57 --> think that it can be taken like a program. 00:04:01: 00:04:02 --> Also, well, I think that this community program plays a 00:04:07: 00:04:07 --> very important role in the art economy, even in museums 00:04:12: 00:04:12 --> and in the international arts, and even in the time 00:04:17: 00:04:17 --> to protect it, there are activities that I go out 00:04:21: 00:04:21 --> of the museum and do, and then I focus on 00:04:25: 00:04:25 --> nearby art facilities. a I also do classes that take 00:04:29: 00:04:29 --> part in a town like roppongi night. 00:04:32: 00:04:34 --> Of course, this digital domain has also been added in 00:04:39: 00:04:39 --> this corona, and this is supposed to exist well regardless 00:04:45: 00:04:45 --> of the place, but well, how do we go out 00:04:49: 00:04:49 --> with this? 00:04:51: 00:04:51 --> Well, I think it's a challenge for the future. and 00:04:54:

3 00:04:54 --> sum up in that uh. 00:04:56: 00:04:57 --> Well, for example, when I hold that international art festival 00:05:02: 00:05:02 --> that returns things, I think one important point is how 00:05:07: 00:05:07 --> to rediscover this year with art. 00:05:10: 00:05:10 --> And in the past, when what was called the Venice 00:05:13: 00:05:14 --> Biennale, such as the Venice Biennale or the document, which 00:05:18: 00:05:18 --> is called this international art festival, was really only a 00:05:22: 00:05:22 --> few in the world, it was a platform to see 00:05:25: 00:05:25 --> the art of the world in itself. 00:05:27: 00:05:27 --> That's right but. 00:05:29: 00:05:29 --> It is said that the international art festival is born 00:05:33: 00:05:33 --> in each city in each country so much. 00:05:36: 00:05:37 --> It is not to collect the appearance of that absolute 00:05:42: 00:05:42 --> world there well, and to discover well of each town 00:05:47: 00:05:47 --> or each city. 00:05:49: 00:05:49 --> Specifically, it is a traditional culture, and it will be 00:05:53: 00:05:53 --> rediscovered from the viewpoint of the culture of the original 00:05:59: 00:05:59 --> festival, and, well, history, community, and natural science. 00:06:04: 00:06:04 --> Well, I'm going to make a new work based on 00:06:07: 00:06:08 --> this kind of research. 00:06:10: 00:06:10 --> I think that such a thing will be given a 00:06:13: 00:06:14 --> big meaning, but on the other hand? 00:06:17: 00:06:19 --> Hey. 00:06:20: 00:06:26 --> I waited a minute, waited a minute. 00:06:28:

4 00:06:29 --> There is another rediscovery of that similar year here, and 00:06:35: 00:06:35 --> this public art is equally yes. 00:06:39: 00:06:39 --> Well, it's not like bringing what's in that market as 00:06:44: 00:06:45 --> it is, but in each city yes, well, you can 00:06:49: 00:06:49 --> make a similar discovery by it. 00:06:53: 00:06:54 --> Well, that place. It is not only that it is 00:06:57: 00:06:57 --> so, and it is there in that space though it 00:07:00: 00:07:00 --> says, "Mersite special" of Koyumi. 00:07:03: 00:07:03 --> Well, in the sense of the work, I think that 00:07:06: 00:07:06 --> it is ideal to be able to create something that 00:07:10: 00:07:10 --> suits it well. 00:07:11: 00:07:13 --> Yes, please give me a little today. 00:07:16: 00:07:23 --> I'm sorry, but this didn't work. 00:07:27: 00:07:30 --> Can you get it out from Mr. Fukudome? 00:07:34: 00:07:42 --> No one kiriptera. 00:07:44: 00:07:45 --> Okay. 00:07:46: 00:07:50 --> Thank you. Then tell me to the end of this 00:07:55: 00:07:56 --> page. 00:07:56: 00:07:59 --> Please go to succeed. 00:08:00: 00:08:02 --> Well, as an example of this, I mentioned earlier in 00:08:05: 00:08:05 --> the Machida Museum of Art program, so I would like 00:08:08: 00:08:09 --> to do a well-participatory project in a workshop format, mainly 00:08:13: 00:08:13 --> for people who have lived in Roppongi for a long 00:08:16: 00:08:16 --> time. 00:08:16:

5 00:08:20 --> Atsugi, please. 00:08:22: 00:08:24 --> This is a serious example of light after that Roppongi, 00:08:28: 00:08:28 --> but well this is that last year. 00:08:30: 00:08:30 --> Well, that korean terrestrial artist brought me that fruit balloon, 00:08:35: 00:08:35 --> and I'd like to ask you next time. 00:08:37: 00:08:40 --> The work of the card party on the left side 00:08:43: 00:08:43 --> is an led ball project, so it is done all 00:08:46: 00:08:46 --> over the world, but this big red balloon is. 00:08:49: 00:08:49 --> It appears suddenly in the town, and it is yes 00:08:52: 00:08:52 --> in shape that it disappears that next day again. 00:08:54: 00:08:54 --> Well, it is such a project to re-draw the map 00:08:58: 00:08:58 --> of the town in the constant movement. Next, please. 00:09:02: 00:09:04 --> It seems that you have to hit this too. 00:09:06: 00:09:06 --> Well yes, well, people don't gather like this, but it's 00:09:10: 00:09:10 --> such a program that fuses that classic and radio gymnastics. 00:09:14: 00:09:14 --> Next, please. 00:09:15: 00:09:16 --> So I'm going to introduce some examples of U.S. dollars 00:09:21: 00:09:21 --> in that castle that I did in 2018 at the 00:09:24: 00:09:24 --> Sydney Biennale, but for example, this place is. 00:09:28: 00:09:28 --> Take a ferry from Sydney Bay in Sydney? 30 minutes, 00:09:32: 00:09:32 --> where I got on the position. But it was originally 00:09:37: 00:09:37 --> that. 00:09:37: 00:09:37 --> Well, it was used as a prisoner detention facility, but 00:09:41: 00:09:42 --> there is a history that it later became the largest 00:09:45:

6 00:09:45 --> shipyard in Japan. 00:09:47: 00:09:47 --> 60m made by Aie. 00:09:50: 00:09:50 --> Well, I'm installing something like that rubber boat's king country, 00:09:56: 00:09:56 --> and this is just that old dog that built the 00:09:59: 00:09:59 --> ship, but I'm doing something like that I set this 00:10:04: 00:10:04 --> up there. 00:10:04: 00:10:04 --> Next, please. 00:10:06: 00:10:08 --> Well, I exhibited Yukinori Yanagi's work in the same place, 00:10:13: 00:10:13 --> but this is that yes. 00:10:15: 00:10:15 --> It's a 40-foot container because it's a place involved in 00:10:20: 00:10:20 --> that transportation. 00:10:22: 00:10:22 --> I've been connecting like a maze for a long time, 00:10:25: 00:10:25 --> and I'm putting a mirror on that corner of, so 00:10:28: 00:10:28 --> it's such a strange thing that I can see the 00:10:31: 00:10:31 --> back one from the entrance in a way that really 00:10:34: 00:10:34 --> everything penetrates. 00:10:36: 00:10:36 --> But that's how I'm getting closer and closer. 00:10:40: 00:10:40 --> It was such a project to think about the history 00:10:43: 00:10:43 --> of that human race. Next, please. 00:10:45: 00:10:48 --> After that, Mr. Ming Takayama is that director, but what 00:10:51: 00:10:51 --> I did in Sydney was, well, Sydney was a town 00:10:54: 00:10:54 --> made of that immigrant. 00:10:56: 00:10:56 --> It is so now yes, but on the assumption that 00:10:59: 00:10:59 --> it is such a country, there is really a variety 00:11:03:

7 00:11:03 --> of cultures rooted there now, and even if immigrants gather 00:11:08: 00:11:08 --> well, those who have genealogy, let's say an important song 00:11:13: 00:11:13 --> heard from Eda mother or mother of the national language. 00:11:18: 00:11:18 --> I did a project like those things that I read 00:11:22: 00:11:22 --> aloud at that girl's city hall. 2 Please. 00:11:26: 00:11:26 --> Well, it's like a kabuki flower path, and well, walk 00:11:30: 00:11:30 --> down the flower path, and the guests come in, and 00:11:33: 00:11:34 --> then they come in as rare, and then they sing 00:11:37: 00:11:37 --> well, don't you see that? Inside, I was a projection 00:11:41: 00:11:41 --> manager. 00:11:42: 00:11:42 --> Next, please. 00:11:43: 00:11:44 --> Well, I made the inside of the exhibition room like 00:11:48: 00:11:48 --> a print workshop like a print workshop. 00:11:51: 00:11:51 --> Well, I didn't come to the class of Philip Kihara, 00:11:55: 00:11:55 --> but well she called a local erima women's group, well, 00:12:00: 00:12:00 --> yes, liverpool girl high school, and then for women, well, 00:12:04: 00:12:05 --> people who work in the library, yes, I usually ceiling 00:12:09: 00:12:09 --> in this way. 00:12:10: 00:12:11 --> Well, it is said that the message with hanger or 00:12:15: 00:12:15 --> poster making is sent to the town. 00:12:17: 00:12:17 --> Well, based on that idea, we are making yes works 00:12:19: 00:12:20 --> while discussing together here, and it is said that the 00:12:22: 00:12:22 --> number of kindergarten children will increase to the solution more 00:12:25: 00:12:25 --> and more. 00:12:25:

8 00:12:25 --> That's the kind of project I was doing. Next, please. 00:12:29: 00:12:31 --> It is like this, and it is good in this. 00:12:36: 00:12:36 --> Next, please. 00:12:38: 00:12:40 --> This is the last time, but that Sydney is eh. 00:12:44: 00:12:44 --> By the way, opera house, as you all know, that 00:12:49: 00:12:49 --> original designer is yes. 00:12:51: 00:12:51 --> Well, there was that Danish architect, but this is on 00:12:55: 00:12:55 --> the way after all? About 10 years after the construction 00:12:59: 00:13:00 --> cost was inflated and that well was made about 10 00:13:03: 00:13:03 --> years later. 00:13:04: 00:13:04 --> After all, it can't be his hands that way? of 00:13:08: 00:13:08 --> australians away from Australia. 00:13:11: 00:13:11 --> Well, the architect followed it up, and eventually that ceiling 00:13:16: 00:13:16 --> design was completed and that was completed, but the room 00:13:21: 00:13:21 --> that this esse originally designed is also so in this 00:13:25: 00:13:25 --> tapestry on the top right. 00:13:27: 00:13:28 --> A project that remains, and the person who eats line 00:13:31: 00:13:31 --> the story of the war sooner or later researches, and 00:13:35: 00:13:35 --> then the project that did not realize yes even in 00:13:38: 00:13:38 --> his native Lebanon, well, the project to make a theater 00:13:41: 00:13:41 --> in that cave. 00:13:42: 00:13:42 --> I didn't realize that idea, but well, tell me one 00:13:46: 00:13:46 --> story about that? Dear mr pollution, so I wrote a 00:13:50: 00:13:50 --> letter to Mr. Aoki and the performance was 45 minutes 00:13:54:

9 00:13:54 --> yes. 00:13:54: 00:13:54 --> Well, history and performance said. Well, it is the history 00:13:59: 00:13:59 --> of Sydney or Australia by doing such a thing. 00:14:03: 00:14:03 --> Well, I'm going to dig deeper. Well, it's not just 00:14:06: 00:14:06 --> its locals. Well, by the eyes of the person who 00:14:09: 00:14:09 --> came from the outside, it is said that it digs 00:14:11: 00:14:11 --> well. Well, it's going to be a new discovery for 00:14:14: 00:14:14 --> the locals as well. 00:14:15: 00:14:15 --> Well, I think that such a picture can be introduced 00:14:19: 00:14:19 --> as a case study because it is related to one 00:14:22: 00:14:22 --> art and a year. Thank you very much. 00:14:24: 00:14:27 --> Thank you. 00:14:28: 00:14:30 --> Mr. Fujimoto will give a presentation this time. 00:14:34: 00:14:35 --> Yes yes we will screen. 00:14:39: 00:14:40 --> Well, today I've bring five projects that change the effects 00:14:47: 00:14:47 --> of art and architecture. 00:14:49: 00:14:49 --> First of all, this is a family that the Sherpen 00:14:54: 00:14:54 --> Gallery in London has been doing since 2000 and 2001 00:14:59: 00:14:59 --> every year. 00:15:00: 00:15:01 --> It was in 2013 that I participated in a project 00:15:05: 00:15:05 --> to make it in the front yard, but it is 00:15:08: 00:15:08 --> already the 13th time. 00:15:09: 00:15:09 --> It's a project that's still going on. It's about four 00:15:13: 00:15:13 --> months and five months during that summer every year. 00:15:16:

10 00:15:16 --> I made a pavilion in front of the gallery in 00:15:20: 00:15:20 --> the park, and it responded to a function like that 00:15:24: 00:15:24 --> caf??. 00:15:25: 00:15:25 --> So people come here and spend a little time buying 00:15:29: 00:15:29 --> tea and events are held. 00:15:31: 00:15:31 --> Yes, it's a place where it's going to be like 00:15:34: 00:15:34 --> that. 00:15:34: 00:15:35 --> Well, it's such a limited time in the pavilion, so 00:15:38: 00:15:39 --> it's pretty experimental. 00:15:40: 00:15:40 --> I knew there was a situation where I could be 00:15:43: 00:15:43 --> able to do it, but it was also a place 00:15:45: 00:15:45 --> where people spend their daily lives in this way, so 00:15:48: 00:15:48 --> when I came in the morning, there were really only 00:15:51: 00:15:51 --> about 34 people. 00:15:51: 00:15:51 --> However, when I visit in the middle of a walk 00:15:55: 00:15:55 --> or around daytime, it is very full. 00:15:57: 00:15:57 --> Various people came, and everyone has been going on for 00:16:01: 00:16:02 --> more than 10 years, so what do you really say, 00:16:05: 00:16:05 --> it was a place where you enjoyed visiting different pavilions 00:16:09: 00:16:09 --> every year on a daily basis. 00:16:11: 00:16:13 --> This is just yes. That hotel in Maebashi, Gunma Prefecture, 00:16:17: 00:16:17 --> Japan, opened last week. 00:16:19: 00:16:19 --> It is white, and it is said that it is 00:16:22: 00:16:22 --> a hotel, and it is in such a shape. 00:16:24:

11 00:16:26 --> Are you looking behind me? This white building was originally 00:16:30: 00:16:30 --> built, and while collecting and renovating it in the hotel, 00:16:34: 00:16:34 --> we are making and collecting a new part of this 00:16:37: 00:16:37 --> green hill. 00:16:38: 00:16:39 --> But where I put it up, there was this Lawrence 00:16:42: 00:16:42 --> winner's picture art, the rest was Hiroshi Sugimoto, and inside, 00:16:47: 00:16:47 --> this was originally built, a four-story concrete reinforced concrete 00:16:53: building. 00:16:53 --> It's a big blowout, isn't it? 00:16:55: 00:16:55 --> It's a lounge lobby space, but this is how I 00:17:00: 00:17:00 --> created a circulation, and that leandro day inspired me to 00:17:05: 00:17:06 --> leave behind something like a high-piped ghost in the ruins. 00:17:11: 00:17:11 --> It is after this Leandro that this is shining here 00:17:14: 00:17:14 --> in the photograph which was made of this. 00:17:16: 00:17:16 --> And the inside is green and it has a little 00:17:19: 00:17:19 --> jungle atmosphere, but when I look up like this. 00:17:23: 00:17:24 --> I'm pulling out the floor, so it's a bit of 00:17:26: 00:17:26 --> a difficulty, right? A very powerful pillar like an old 00:17:29: 00:17:29 --> Japanese private house. 00:17:30: 00:17:30 --> The space of the beams and leandro's instep are fantastic 00:17:34: 00:17:34 --> tubes of light. 00:17:35: 00:17:36 --> And, this hotel is not only such a landolt buying 00:17:39: 00:17:39 --> in the place of the stairs like this, and the 00:17:42: 00:17:42 --> rest is installed in each room, and the rest is 00:17:45: 00:17:45 --> also in this common space. 00:17:46:

12 00:17:46 --> There is a lot of art, and that's what I'm 00:17:49: 00:17:49 --> trying to do. 00:17:50: 00:17:50 --> When that town called Maebashi is dark, it is Mr. 00:17:54: 00:17:54 --> Tanaka, the president of Jins of Gin's Glasses in Sagawa, 00:17:59: 00:17:59 --> but it is a building that becomes one of the 00:18:02: 00:18:02 --> core of the city of Maebashi now. 00:18:05: 00:18:06 --> Rather than renovating the interior, this is like going to 00:18:11: 00:18:11 --> town continuously. 00:18:12: 00:18:12 --> It's like an indoor plaza in the city, and let's 00:18:16: 00:18:16 --> do it a little more. Iku in a row. 00:18:19: 00:18:19 --> Among them, it is a project as part of the 00:18:22: 00:18:22 --> development that it was after a new project or architecture 00:18:26: 00:18:26 --> in the city of Takaebashi. 00:18:28: 00:18:30 --> After that, the yes project is progressing in Towada now, 00:18:33: 00:18:33 --> and that Fujita is a museum of contemporary art designed 00:18:37: 00:18:37 --> by Mr. A Nishida, and it is becoming a city 00:18:40: 00:18:40 --> of contemporary art, but it is about a 5-minute walk 00:18:44: 00:18:44 --> from the Museum of Contemporary Art there. 00:18:47: 00:18:47 --> In other words, I wonder if I can create a 00:18:50: 00:18:50 --> place where contemporary art and the residents just meet, and 00:18:55: 00:18:55 --> this four-cornered building looks like this, but in fact, the 00:18:59: 00:18:59 --> place surrounded by this wall is okina vestual. 00:19:03: 00:19:03 --> It looks like a courtyard. Inside the wall, isn't it? 00:19:07: 00:19:07 --> There is no ceiling, there is no roof, and it 00:19:11:

13 00:19:11 --> is empty. And this is it. 00:19:13: 00:19:13 --> What do you say? Mr. Nishitani's Museum of Contemporary Art 00:19:17: 00:19:17 --> is a glass that opens in a white exhibition room 00:19:21: 00:19:21 --> called White Cube. 00:19:22: 00:19:22 --> It's like art is opening up in a town, and 00:19:25: 00:19:25 --> it's like art is creating an external white cube that 00:19:29: 00:19:29 --> opens in the outdoor white cube high sky, and it 00:19:33: 00:19:33 --> can be used in various forms in the living room 00:19:37: 00:19:37 --> and in the living room of the people of that 00:19:40: 00:19:40 --> town, and it can be used as an exhibition space 00:19:44: 00:19:44 --> for displaying art, and both are mixed. 00:19:47: 00:19:47 --> In Kobe, which can not be used in such a 00:19:50: 00:19:50 --> way, this mural is made by using a little picture 00:19:54: 00:19:54 --> of That Inokuma-san, but I do not know what day 00:19:58: 00:19:58 --> will come, but I will send it to the outside 00:20:01: 00:20:01 --> to the town, and this external white cube itself can 00:20:05: 00:20:06 --> be used like a new exhibition room in the town, 00:20:09: 00:20:09 --> and there are local residents. I do things that I 00:20:13: 00:20:13 --> say are also a place of everyday life. 00:20:16: 00:20:17 --> So this is it, isn't it? In Guangzhou, China, that 00:20:22: 00:20:22 --> vitamin creative space is a gallery. 00:20:26: 00:20:26 --> Contemporary art galleries are their base. 00:20:30: 00:20:30 --> I made a mirror garden, which went into the countryside 00:20:34: 00:20:34 --> quite a bit from the public city. 00:20:37:

14 00:20:37 --> There's a space where I said it, art, then agriculture, 00:20:43: 00:20:43 --> and then life. 00:20:44: 00:20:44 --> I thought I could build a relationship between new art 00:20:48: 00:20:48 --> and people in such a mixing overlap. 00:20:51: 00:20:51 --> It is a yu project. There was a simple warehouse 00:20:55: 00:20:55 --> that was originally built in the countryside, but there is 00:20:59: 00:20:59 --> such participation. 00:21:00: 00:21:01 --> The surrounding towns and villages were quite simple villages like 00:21:05: 00:21:05 --> that, so I rebuilt the building in such a shape 00:21:08: 00:21:09 --> once more and combined it like a village. 00:21:11: 00:21:11 --> And, the inside of the tower on the left side 00:21:13: 00:21:13 --> of this is an exhibition space. 00:21:15: 00:21:15 --> There is a garden on the right, and there are 00:21:18: 00:21:18 --> places like this where there is a little kitchen space 00:21:22: 00:21:22 --> or a place to live. It looks like this. To 00:21:25: 00:21:25 --> the garden. 00:21:26: 00:21:27 --> And because it is a course, it is such a 00:21:29: 00:21:29 --> making that the high interior and the outside are connected 00:21:32: 00:21:32 --> like that, and the rest is various materials of the 00:21:35: 00:21:35 --> local. 00:21:36: 00:21:36 --> This building itself inherits the identity of this area and 00:21:40: 00:21:40 --> this area in this area, and when more contemporary art 00:21:44: 00:21:44 --> enters there, the exhibition space inside is also a little 00:21:48: 00:21:49 --> complicatedly sectioned in this way. 00:21:51:

15 00:21:54 --> Finally, this art is not directly related, but France, I 00:21:58: 00:21:58 --> now have an office in Paris, and it is that 00:22:01: 00:22:01 --> apartment building in France, the south, France, Montpellier. 00:22:06: 00:22:06 --> I think that France is all over Europe, but when 00:22:09: 00:22:09 --> you build a building, it becomes a competition if it 00:22:13: 00:22:13 --> is about this size, but based on the identity of 00:22:17: 00:22:17 --> this town, the cultural background, the climate, why is this 00:22:22: 00:22:22 --> town like this? That's why this proposal. 00:22:25: 00:22:25 --> There was a place where it was asked very much. 00:22:28: 00:22:28 --> In this case, it is close to the southern French 00:22:31: 00:22:31 --> Mediterranean Sea, so if the climate is good, the lifestyle 00:22:34: 00:22:34 --> is already outdoors. You're going out to the terrace right 00:22:37: 00:22:38 --> away. So, by saying that I want to make it 00:22:40: 00:22:40 --> a housing complex where you can enjoy it to the 00:22:43: 00:22:43 --> fullest, it is from 15 that I write like this. 00:22:45: 00:22:45 --> There is a huge balcony in 230co, and I live 00:22:49: 00:22:49 --> there and the balcony next to me looks diagonally up, 00:22:53: 00:22:53 --> but the communication of my neighbor is. 00:22:56: 00:22:56 --> It has been reconstructed in a three-dimensional form. Because the 00:23:01: 00:23:01 --> neighborhood community has been rebuilt in the right way. 00:23:05: 00:23:07 --> Well, this is another religion, isn't it? 00:23:09: 00:23:09 --> So, even if there is something small in this place, 00:23:13: 00:23:14 --> it is something new, and it becomes the identity of 00:23:18: 00:23:18 --> the town or a new landmark. 00:23:20:

16 00:23:20 --> That's how architecture is. 00:23:24: 00:23:24 --> It is happening that it connects with the history of 00:23:28: 00:23:28 --> the town so because time is repeated, and it is 00:23:32: 00:23:32 --> ahead. 00:23:32: 00:23:33 --> I felt that it would be connected to the fact 00:23:37: 00:23:37 --> that it would be connected to the place where mr. 00:23:41: 00:23:41 --> Yako's new art was spun. 00:23:43: 00:23:43 --> Yes, that's it. 00:23:45: 00:23:47 --> Thank you to both of you. 00:23:50: 00:23:51 --> Especially amazing. Well, how to use that balcony of that 00:23:57: 00:23:57 --> last apartment of Mr. Iko fujimoto. 00:24:01: 00:24:02 --> All the american porches of the early 20th century were 00:24:05: 00:24:05 --> connected to the road by the front coach, and it 00:24:08: 00:24:08 --> was a conversation. 00:24:09: 00:24:10 --> I think it would be very interesting to break the 00:24:13: 00:24:13 --> feeling of isolation and chase the dialogue while bringing it 00:24:16: 00:24:17 --> all to the wall in the room now, whether it 00:24:19: 00:24:19 --> was a bar of conversation with the next person, and 00:24:22: 00:24:22 --> everyone is public, but I think it's very interesting to 00:24:26: 00:24:26 --> make up, but two people from here, by all means. 00:24:29: 00:24:29 --> I would like to ask you to discuss art and 00:24:34: 00:24:34 --> town and its art and life. 00:24:37: 00:24:37 --> It's a bit of that wildly self-type, though. 00:24:40: 00:24:42 --> Thank you for that enema. 00:24:44:

17 00:24:46 --> At the end of that, Mr. Fujimoto said that. 00:24:49: 00:24:50 --> Well, I was told that I would discover my identity, 00:24:54: 00:24:54 --> and I thought it was very interesting. 00:24:57: 00:24:59 --> Well, in the end, it's like that art museum, and 00:25:04: 00:25:04 --> then it's like a mark festival, a pavilion, or something 00:25:10: 00:25:10 --> really like that apartment. 00:25:13: 00:25:14 --> I thought again that it is a very big place 00:25:19: 00:25:19 --> whether it can be used well to create one place, 00:25:25: 00:25:25 --> or to rediscover the identity of their area or the 00:25:32: 00:25:32 --> city itself. 00:25:33: 00:25:35 --> Oh yes that's right. 00:25:36: 00:25:36 --> In the case of that building, if you can do 00:25:40: 00:25:40 --> it once by all means, the place will last for 00:25:44: 00:25:44 --> quite a long time. 00:25:45: 00:25:45 --> On the other hand, in the case of art, there 00:25:49: 00:25:49 --> are some 5-hour layers, right? 00:25:51: 00:25:51 --> From what happens in that place on the day before, 00:25:55: 00:25:55 --> there are scars that last for quite a long time, 00:26:00: 00:26:00 --> and then the charm of the place is rediscovered in 00:26:04: 00:26:04 --> various layers of time, and then something hidden is rediscovered. 00:26:10: 00:26:10 --> Let's go out and do more, I wonder what it 00:26:12: 00:26:13 --> is even more. 00:26:13: 00:26:13 --> It is said that the one like the overlap of 00:26:16: 00:26:16 --> the rock steel history which is very meaning of the 00:26:20:

18 00:26:20 --> anti-demon of the place itself becomes richer and richer fast 00:26:24: 00:26:24 --> because the thing which interprets the rediscovered one before 00:26:29: further 00:26:29 --> each other happens when repeated. 00:26:31: 00:26:31 --> That area is very good, and I feel that it 00:26:33: 00:26:34 --> is attractive with the people who made achievements when I 00:26:37: 00:26:37 --> saw it over a long span of work. 00:26:38: 00:26:40 --> Let's see. 00:26:41: 00:26:41 --> Well, that's all you eat, and that doesn't have a 00:26:45: 00:26:45 --> roof? Yes, it has no roof and is a really 00:26:49: 00:26:49 --> open air place. 00:26:51: 00:26:52 --> How big is that? Well, that's right. 00:26:56: 00:26:56 --> It's roughly square, but it's almost square when you look 00:27:01: 00:27:01 --> at it from above, but it's up to 25m, which 00:27:05: 00:27:05 --> is 25m. 00:27:05: 00:27:05 --> It's about 600 m2. 00:27:09: 00:27:09 --> And since the height of the wall is about 12m, 00:27:13: 00:27:13 --> it is quite a strange place, and usually the main 00:27:16: 00:27:17 --> function there is a community function that can be used 00:27:21: 00:27:21 --> by the local people. 00:27:22: 00:27:23 --> It's a gallery for the locals, right? After that, there 00:27:29: 00:27:29 --> are caf?? spaces and kitchen studios, but the gallery part 00:27:36: 00:27:36 --> is like being used as 00:27:39: 00:27:39 --> a satellite of that so-called Museum of Contemporary Art, so 00:27:41: 00:27:41 --> why include its functions? Let's hear that residents are free 00:27:43:

19 00:27:43 --> to use it in daily life. 00:27:44: 00:27:44 --> Art is the same place with full-fledged art coming in, 00:27:48: 00:27:48 --> but I'm now assuming a place that feels like it's 00:27:51: 00:27:51 --> suddenly changing. 00:27:53: 00:27:53 --> What's going on with that floor? Already really say dirt 00:27:57: 00:27:57 --> or what is 00:27:58: 00:27:59 --> outdoors? It's outdoors, isn't it? Excuse me. I think the 00:28:02: 00:28:02 --> so-called pavement is good. 00:28:04: 00:28:04 --> I know if it's paved and yes stone, it's a 00:28:09: 00:28:09 --> national thing, 00:28:11: 00:28:13 --> but why is it pretty hard? In a country surrounded 00:28:14: 00:28:14 --> by hard materials. 00:28:15: 00:28:15 --> Yes, it's a park like a white cube. I'm sure 00:28:20: 00:28:20 --> that's right. Because it is somehow scary open air. 00:28:26: 00:28:28 --> The sky changes every day, and people can pass through 00:28:34: 00:28:34 --> it, but there is a white cube-like, a little tension, 00:28:39: 00:28:39 --> or that feeling. 00:28:40: 00:28:42 --> I thought it was very new. 00:28:44: 00:28:46 --> What I can do there is a tremendous inspiration. 00:28:51: 00:28:51 --> It springs up. 00:28:52: 00:28:53 --> Let's see. That was a proposal competition. 00:28:56: 00:28:57 --> If you judge me, well, there is a high accumulation 00:29:00: 00:29:01 --> since the museum of contemporary art was made, so I 00:29:04: 00:29:04 --> have a great understanding of things like art spaces and 00:29:09:

20 00:29:09 --> public spaces of new coated paper, and there is such 00:29:13: 00:29:13 --> a thing, so if it is such a place, I 00:29:15: 00:29:15 --> will see the possibility that something else can be used 00:29:20: 00:29:20 --> differently, You chose it, did you? 00:29:22: 00:29:24 --> Perhaps the accumulation is very important, and it is a 00:29:28: 00:29:28 --> part that can not be seen even if you look 00:29:31: 00:29:31 --> at the city like that, but what kind of love 00:29:34: 00:29:34 --> layer overlaps with the memories and experiences of the people 00:29:39: 00:29:39 --> who live there, well, I accept the art and architecture 00:29:43: 00:29:43 --> afterwards. 00:29:44: 00:29:44 --> Well, I think that imagination and things like degree are 00:29:49: 00:29:49 --> very connected, and what I experienced in Sydney was made 00:29:54: 00:29:54 --> in 1973 when it was sydney. 00:29:56: 00:29:56 --> Once every two years, it's amazing. 00:29:58: 00:29:59 --> Ricardo's experience of coming from all over the world, and 00:30:03: 00:30:03 --> well, I realized again that there are a lot of 00:30:07: 00:30:07 --> people who watch it almost every time, so I read 00:30:10: 00:30:10 --> that it was an archive series before everyone started, such 00:30:15: 00:30:15 --> as artists who had participated in it for a long 00:30:19: 00:30:19 --> time, or people who were directors in the 1970s, You 00:30:23: 00:30:23 --> opened up and listened to various stories. 00:30:26: 00:30:26 --> It was for my own study, but I thought it 00:30:29: 00:30:29 --> would be more interesting to do it in public. 00:30:33: 00:30:33 --> Then a lot of stories came out, and well, I 00:30:36:

21 00:30:36 --> could feel the richness of the knowledge and experience of 00:30:41: 00:30:41 --> the city that I could not see from the outside, 00:30:45: 00:30:45 --> but well, probably so is the museum, but the architecture 00:30:49: 00:30:49 --> also used the place there, so various relationships were born, 00:30:54: 00:30:54 --> and the next generation was born, and well, it was 00:30:58: 00:30:58 --> accumulated as a place of the memories, and maybe there. 00:31:02: 00:31:03 --> It will be how richly the invisible thing accumulates after 00:31:09: 00:31:09 --> all that experience. 00:31:11: 00:31:12 --> Let's see. 00:31:13: 00:31:13 --> When I said that the story of the current day 00:31:16: 00:31:17 --> was very exciting and accumulated, it was somehow archived like 00:31:21: 00:31:21 --> this, and it was fixed that it was stored somewhere 00:31:25: 00:31:25 --> like this. 00:31:26: 00:31:26 --> I think that's important, but on the other hand, it's 00:31:30: 00:31:30 --> always called back and awakened, it's talked about, and it's 00:31:35: 00:31:35 --> newly interpreted again, and I think it's exactly what it's 00:31:40: 00:31:40 --> like to be alive. 00:31:41: 00:31:41 --> That's how art is meant. 00:31:45: 00:31:45 --> It was very exciting to say that the way it 00:31:49: 00:31:49 --> should be is alive. 00:31:50: 00:31:52 --> Let's do this by all means in architecture. 00:31:55: 00:31:55 --> In that, it seems to support the one like the 00:31:58: 00:31:58 --> activity like this which is red alive in the ideal 00:32:02: 00:32:02 --> way of the place by making the fragrance because it 00:32:05:

22 00:32:05 --> seems to be relatively high still from the bottom. 00:32:09: 00:32:09 --> In that sense, I thought that art and architecture would 00:32:16: 00:32:16 --> overlap in this way and coexist. 00:32:20: 00:32:21 --> Well, on the other hand, architecture is also after sake, 00:32:25: 00:32:25 --> but there is a reason why it was made in 00:32:28: 00:32:29 --> a specific area at that particular time. 00:32:32: 00:32:32 --> Well, I think there is something like the atmosphere of 00:32:37: 00:32:37 --> the times why Sou Fujimoto designed this here. 00:32:42: 00:32:42 --> So, well, about the old building, well, to re-read the 00:32:48: 00:32:48 --> context of that made time again, after all, of the 00:32:54: 00:32:54 --> big town's old age. 00:32:56: 00:32:56 --> Well, I think it's very exciting in terms of revisiting 00:33:02: 00:33:02 --> history. 00:33:02: 00:33:04 --> Well, maybe it's close to visiting that temple, shrine, or 00:33:09: 00:33:09 --> so on, but the architecture is also that, for example, 00:33:13: 00:33:13 --> I just gave you an example. 00:33:15: 00:33:15 --> The story of the opera house in white and the 00:33:19: 00:33:19 --> story of the grand story are really interesting already. Yeah. 00:33:23: 00:33:25 --> Oh, in that sense, I thought it was similar to 00:33:28: 00:33:28 --> artwork. 00:33:28: 00:33:29 --> Yes. 00:33:30: 00:33:31 --> Of course, the town of Montpellier that I showed you 00:33:34: 00:33:34 --> earlier in the gate example, there is a beautiful old 00:33:38: 00:33:38 --> town, but in the 1970s, an architect named Ricardo Noon 00:33:42:

23 00:33:42 --> was very novel at that time. 00:33:44: 00:33:44 --> You made a new postmodern style town from there on 00:33:47: 00:33:47 --> an optical axis battlefield. In addition, it is new to 00:33:51: 00:33:51 --> the outside in addition now in addition. 00:33:53: 00:33:53 --> Even making a new new town, our project is just 00:33:57: 00:33:57 --> that of the new town in the 70's of Ricardo 00:34:01: 00:34:01 --> Profile. 00:34:02: 00:34:03 --> It is in a place where shame and shame of 00:34:06: 00:34:06 --> the new new town are just tempered, so I think 00:34:10: 00:34:10 --> about the climate and the very traditional 00:34:13: 00:34:14 --> place well, but at the same time it is not 00:34:17: 00:34:17 --> very old because it is there in the 70's, but 00:34:21: 00:34:21 --> it is an important high history accumulation. 00:34:24: 00:34:24 --> While referring to such a thing while looking at it 00:34:28: 00:34:28 --> like this, I dare to contrast the soft ground one 00:34:32: 00:34:32 --> against the c-axis, and both are so, in a sense, 00:34:36: 00:34:36 --> respecting things like the historicality of their A 70's, but 00:34:41: 00:34:41 --> by hitting different things, it is necessary to do both 00:34:45: 00:34:45 --> more. 00:34:45: 00:34:46 --> I try something like that, and in a long span 00:34:48: 00:34:49 --> of time in the sense. 00:34:50: 00:34:51 --> It is very interesting not to simply follow it while 00:34:55: 00:34:55 --> firmly inheriting the history like this, but to dare to 00:35:00: 00:35:00 --> hit the opposite thing or to look at it from 00:35:04:

24 00:35:04 --> a different point of view. 00:35:06: 00:35:06 --> It's super, isn't it? No, in that sense. 00:35:10: 00:35:10 --> Well, in architectural masala, land development, or something like 00:35:15: town 00:35:15 --> planning, has a very long taste at that time, so 00:35:18: 00:35:18 --> for example, a company called The Mori Building where I 00:35:23: 00:35:23 --> am is also 30 years into one development. 00:35:26: 00:35:26 --> Well, it is said that it prepares the exhibition making 00:35:30: 00:35:30 --> for 23 years because it receives it. 00:35:33: 00:35:33 --> I think it's completely different from that span of thought. 00:35:38: 00:35:39 --> Well, that's it, isn't it? Art is, in a sense. 00:35:42: 00:35:43 --> At the same time as it was a momentary event, 00:35:47: 00:35:47 --> I put a view to 100 or 500 years with 00:35:51: 00:35:51 --> a view to span. 00:35:52: 00:35:52 --> There is no condition of the extension and the shrinking 00:35:56: 00:35:56 --> of this time of something is tremendously high. 00:36:00: 00:36:00 --> I have something special about it, and I feel that 00:36:04: 00:36:05 --> there are some things in architecture that cannot be realized 00:36:10: 00:36:11 --> in this way. 00:36:12: 00:36:12 --> What is the time span of architecture and the 00:36:15: 00:36:15 --> time after? Let's not only be long and short. 00:36:18: 00:36:19 --> It's like this, or depth, and there are a lot 00:36:25: 00:36:25 --> of things in art. 00:36:28: 00:36:28 --> Various time spans are getting down, and that's why. 00:36:33: 00:36:33 --> Both. 00:36:34:

25 00:36:36 --> What's that. Echoing and overlapping. 00:36:39: 00:36:40 --> I think it makes sense to make it. Let's see. 00:36:47: 00:36:47 --> Unfortunately, I think that it is possible to move around 00:36:52: 00:36:52 --> that time by saying where to really put your own 00:36:56: 00:36:56 --> standing, but well, there are times when you look at 00:37:00: 00:37:01 --> the past from where you are now and imagine the 00:37:04: 00:37:05 --> future, but after all, works with that history may be 00:37:09: 00:37:09 --> architecture, but there. 00:37:11: 00:37:11 --> When you go back, how do you look at the 00:37:14: 00:37:14 --> present from that point on, well, how do you see 00:37:17: 00:37:18 --> the future from the present point, imagine the future, and 00:37:22: 00:37:22 --> start moving around the present day, and that's really it. 00:37:26: 00:37:27 --> What is it? I thought that I could see this 00:37:30: 00:37:30 --> moment itself from a bird's-eye view, and well, there was 00:37:34: 00:37:35 --> something like those days in particular, so even a day 00:37:38: 00:37:39 --> of 24 hours seems to be a little longer. 00:37:41: 00:37:41 --> Well, in an instant, there are days when it seems 00:37:45: 00:37:45 --> that the day has ended again. Well, I felt it 00:37:48: 00:37:48 --> again, so that in the 1970s, for example. 00:37:51: 00:37:52 --> The person who says that the tile of the world 00:37:56: 00:37:56 --> concept artist born in Japan is doing date painting. 00:38:01: 00:38:01 --> But with that one piece every day, it would have 00:38:03: 00:38:03 --> been demonstrated if I didn't finish the following by 12:00 00:38:06: 00:38:06 --> in the middle of the night. 00:38:07:

26 00:38:07 --> Anyway, I've been writing about the activities I did in 00:38:12: 00:38:12 --> the 24 hours, but I'm rather that. 00:38:15: 00:38:17 --> Before corona when time was moving smoothly, what was only 00:38:21: 00:38:21 --> visible as one concept art, but when you experience something 00:38:26: 00:38:26 --> like that lockdown, it becomes very real, and well, it 00:38:29: 00:38:29 --> looks really different from mart work depending on that situation, 00:38:34: 00:38:34 --> so it becomes very real, and it is like that 00:38:37: 00:38:37 --> preparation of the feeling on this side, so Something that 00:38:41: 00:38:41 --> I didn't think was interesting at all until last year, 00:38:45: 00:38:45 --> but when there is a change in me, I have 00:38:48: 00:38:48 --> a lot of sympathy. 00:38:49: 00:38:49 --> Well, that's how you look at it. 00:38:52: 00:38:53 --> If you can throw that at the town, it's a 00:38:56: 00:38:56 --> town that normally walked every day, but something is different. 00:39:01: 00:39:01 --> Well, if one building is built or some later elements 00:39:04: 00:39:05 --> are added there, yes, it looks like a completely different 00:39:08: 00:39:08 --> city, even though it is in the same place where 00:39:12: 00:39:12 --> you can have such an experience. 00:39:14: 00:39:15 --> I also feel like the scenery that comes into view 00:39:18: 00:39:18 --> like this is changing. yes that's true. That city. Well, 00:39:22: 00:39:22 --> it's called a year, or a town. 00:39:24: 00:39:25 --> Moreover, it is a place of training. 00:39:28: 00:39:28 --> Various things are small plum, and various things including the 00:39:33: 00:39:33 --> thing which is not so useful or does not seem 00:39:37:

27 00:39:37 --> to be so useful separately in a usual life are 00:39:40: 00:39:40 --> so. 00:39:41: 00:39:41 --> In fact, it is already blessed there, and suddenly something 00:39:45: 00:39:45 --> has meaning in exactly the time and the case. 00:39:48: 00:39:48 --> For example, in Tokyo, and there are more than 10 00:39:51: 00:39:51 --> million good people, there is something for one person. 00:39:55: 00:39:55 --> I think that the depth of nostalgia that suddenly has 00:39:59: 00:39:59 --> meaning, or something like that, is the charm of the 00:40:03: 00:40:03 --> town after all. 00:40:05: 00:40:05 --> However, if you try to make a town efficiently, for 00:40:08: 00:40:08 --> example, functionally, there are actually many things that are made 00:40:13: 00:40:13 --> teachers by it very much, and in that sense, in 00:40:16: 00:40:16 --> order to make things like diversity in the true sense 00:40:20: 00:40:20 --> of the city, there is exactly something like this web 00:40:24: 00:40:24 --> of art that you were saying. 00:40:26: 00:40:27 --> It is stretched vertically and horizontally. 00:40:29: 00:40:30 --> Even if you didn't understand it at first thought, it 00:40:35: 00:40:35 --> suddenly meant a lot to me a little while later, 00:40:39: 00:40:39 --> or an orc person suddenly sympathized with something like this. 00:40:44: 00:40:44 --> I feel that the work of enriching things like that 00:40:50: 00:40:50 --> high accumulation and mesh has to be done and done. 00:40:55: 00:40:55 --> Let's see. If you think of it as something like 00:40:59: 00:40:59 --> the potential of a town. 00:41:01: 00:41:01 --> What is a town really? It feels like organic matter 00:41:06:

28 00:41:06 --> like an amoeber, so well in it. 00:41:09: 00:41:10 --> Well, how do you pull out something like that potential 00:41:15: 00:41:15 --> march? 00:41:16: 00:41:16 --> Perhaps how much power does the service have when I 00:41:20: 00:41:20 --> try to be that artist? Well, can you get that 00:41:23: 00:41:23 --> out? The question is different from the scale, but it 00:41:27: 00:41:27 --> may be similar to Kagawa, but well, if you think 00:41:31: 00:41:31 --> about things like the potential of the town in that 00:41:35: 00:41:35 --> sense, I think that you can probably still do a 00:41:38: 00:41:38 --> lot of things. 00:41:39: 00:41:40 --> At these times, the streets of Tokyo became empty, weren't 00:41:44: 00:41:44 --> they? 00:41:44: 00:41:44 --> He also showed me a completely different landscape, and he 00:41:51: 00:41:51 --> once again thanked me for having people. 00:41:55: 00:41:55 --> Well, this is where I've been talking in that city 00:41:59: 00:41:59 --> since 50 times, actually looking down at the city. 00:42:03: 00:42:05 --> Mr./Ms. Fujimoto is valued when thinking how to do that 00:42:12: 00:42:12 --> child's town. 00:42:14: 00:42:14 --> It was time when it was made to think that 00:42:17: 00:42:17 --> it was important again even in such a person how 00:42:21: 00:42:21 --> the person put the body in the climate climate or 00:42:25: 00:42:25 --> the environment, and a big cosmic nature had already finished 00:42:29: 00:42:29 --> in the movement of the natural science or the person 00:42:33: 00:42:34 --> was alive. 00:42:34:

29 00:42:36 --> Let's see. 00:42:37: 00:42:37 --> I've been working as an architect lately, so it's mostly 00:42:42: 00:42:42 --> about building, but then there's a form of land, and 00:42:47: 00:42:47 --> if you do something in it, of course, it's a 00:42:51: 00:42:51 --> city that's spreading around it, it's a natural environment, history, 00:42:58: 00:42:58 --> culture, climate, and so on. 00:43:01: 00:43:02 --> Is there anything you can make like this? It is 00:43:05: 00:43:05 --> limited to the inside of the site, and I feel 00:43:09: 00:43:09 --> that there may be a limit to it soon. 00:43:11: 00:43:11 --> So, it's about that various systems, so you might not 00:43:16: 00:43:16 --> know right away, but what's more about the building and 00:43:21: 00:43:21 --> the town, for example, the road? It's like a square, 00:43:25: 00:43:25 --> it's like a landscape, it's like a natural park. 00:43:29: 00:43:29 --> Then perhaps, to say the small scale, furniture or even 00:43:34: 00:43:34 --> something more private. 00:43:36: 00:43:36 --> When the thing called the living environment and the living 00:43:40: 00:43:40 --> environment of the man was seen, the meaning which parted 00:43:43: 00:43:43 --> from the building and the town, the park, and furniture 00:43:47: 00:43:47 --> had disappeared so much, and it had been done up 00:43:50: 00:43:50 --> to now by capturing it more continuously. 00:43:52: 00:43:52 --> In particular, for example, it was somehow lost between the 00:43:56: 00:43:56 --> city and the border of the building. 00:43:59: 00:43:59 --> I think there's going to be an interesting area, between 00:44:03: 00:44:03 --> landscape and the Takamumi area. 00:44:06:

30 00:44:07 --> From each other's point of seeing, there seems to be 00:44:09: 00:44:09 --> an area that is somehow beautiful and did not have 00:44:12: 00:44:12 --> much hands on. 00:44:13: 00:44:13 --> When I think about it in that way, I think 00:44:16: 00:44:16 --> that it has become an age when I think so 00:44:18: 00:44:19 --> firmly cause it is really enough as a total like 00:44:22: 00:44:22 --> this. 00:44:22: 00:44:24 --> In that sense, what does that white A hotel say 00:44:28: 00:44:28 --> so much? That eye may be a loco from the 00:44:31: 00:44:31 --> eyes, or maybe just that one food, but if you 00:44:35: 00:44:35 --> say that by making it a Merman central blowout that 00:44:39: 00:44:39 --> is being opened, something that was closed like this will 00:44:44: 00:44:44 --> be opened outside, and there is a great sense of 00:44:47: 00:44:48 --> openness. 00:44:48: 00:44:48 --> I thought. But as you said, that Maebashi can also 00:44:53: 00:44:53 --> be a place to gather. 00:44:55: 00:44:55 --> Well, when I am chased by the Flower Museum of 00:45:00: 00:45:00 --> Ikaho and it is gradually recognized as a city afterwards, 00:45:05: 00:45:05 --> I feel that energy gradually penetrates into the city from 00:45:10: 00:45:10 --> there, not limited to the case of that hotel. 00:45:15: 00:45:16 --> Is it about time you asked a question? Yes, that. 00:45:21: 00:45:22 --> Well one kinda goes in here and reads that. 00:45:27: 00:45:27 --> I don't think I've really said much about the real 00:45:31: 00:45:31 --> estate development and its problems in Japan. 00:45:34:

31 00:45:34 --> It may be because there are a lot of short-term 00:45:37: 00:45:37 --> profits and investments that are just being made. 00:45:40: 00:45:41 --> How can we make art more commonly blend into real 00:45:46: 00:45:46 --> estate development? Can't a public body make it a development 00:45:51: 00:45:52 --> license obligation? It is a question that says. 00:45:56: 00:45:57 --> Yeah. 00:45:57: 00:45:59 --> How about a local area? That's it. 00:46:02: 00:46:02 --> I think that it is a lot of developers like 00:46:05: 00:46:05 --> this right now, and it is a business operator seriously 00:46:08: 00:46:08 --> searching for the bottom, but one is the komachi, the 00:46:12: 00:46:12 --> road, and the building that I mentioned earlier when developing, 00:46:16: 00:46:16 --> and there is no such thing as that skating. 00:46:19: 00:46:19 --> In addition, the art enters there is made vertically separately 00:46:24: 00:46:24 --> in this way, and it asks for something like this 00:46:27: 00:46:27 --> respectively, and it is not to combine it later, but 00:46:30: 00:46:31 --> to do more. 00:46:31: 00:46:31 --> It can be made to be organically related. 00:46:34: 00:46:34 --> I think it's very interesting. 00:46:37: 00:46:37 --> So, in this day and age, I feel that there 00:46:40: 00:46:40 --> are more and more people who can do this kind 00:46:44: 00:46:44 --> of organic collaboration from both the art side and the 00:46:48: 00:46:48 --> architectural side, and leandro is like this. 00:46:52: 00:46:52 --> In that place, I understood the story of the background 00:46:55: 00:46:55 --> in a place where I didn't like it, and then 00:46:58:

32 00:46:58 --> I proposed something as vivid as this. 00:47:01: 00:47:01 --> In that sense, it is becoming such a high age 00:47:05: 00:47:05 --> so now. 00:47:05: 00:47:06 --> It's just the future. And the other thing is art, 00:47:08: 00:47:09 --> right? What and pieces did you put if you could 00:47:11: 00:47:11 --> go around something 00:47:12: 00:47:13 --> like anime in the city development of the association, which 00:47:19: 00:47:19 --> means this, including the invisible ones that you said one 00:47:25: 00:47:25 --> week? More than that. 00:47:28: 00:47:28 --> I think that it will be possible to realize it 00:47:31: 00:47:32 --> more richly like the overlap of meanings like the layer 00:47:35: 00:47:35 --> of the term meaning of that place, or how history 00:47:39: 00:47:39 --> is interpreted and made. 00:47:41: 00:47:41 --> I feel that it is a phase of how to 00:47:45: 00:47:45 --> realize it in the future, so I think that I 00:47:50: 00:47:50 --> want to expect it very much, and I want to 00:47:55: 00:47:55 --> be involved in such a place. 00:47:58: 00:48:00 --> That I am now involved in the mart work of 00:48:03: 00:48:03 --> the project of toranomon and then Toranomon Azabudai, but there 00:48:07: 00:48:08 --> is also office from housing Ise, but considering that there 00:48:12: 00:48:12 --> are people who live there for a long time even 00:48:15: 00:48:16 --> in housing, I call artists well, and I have them 00:48:19: 00:48:19 --> take a walk around Toranomon, and I also talk about 00:48:23: 00:48:23 --> history, and after all it is just that well, It's 00:48:27:

33 00:48:27 --> not like there's a mark on the decoration of the 00:48:30: 00:48:30 --> space. 00:48:31: 00:48:31 --> Yes. 00:48:31: 00:48:31 --> Well, the resultential bunch that can be troubled is basically 00:48:38: 00:48:38 --> all made into a new commission, but everyone is proposing 00:48:44: 00:48:44 --> a very interesting proposal, 00:48:47: 00:48:48 --> not only modeling, but also that Japanese American artist called 00:48:51: 00:48:51 --> Mika Kagoshima, for example? Record the sounds you hear in 00:48:53: 00:48:53 --> the town of Toranomon. 00:48:54: 00:48:56 --> It is a radio gymnastics, it is a sound of 00:48:59: 00:48:59 --> the construction site, and then it is the sound of 00:49:02: 00:49:02 --> the bell of the temple, and, well, the frequency of 00:49:06: 00:49:06 --> the sound is recorded, the frequency of the sound is 00:49:10: 00:49:10 --> visualized, and it is made the work of developing that 00:49:13: 00:49:13 --> yes to the work of the jacquard weave well, but 00:49:17: 00:49:17 --> after the new building has passed in such a shape, 00:49:20: 00:49:20 --> What you want to see the memory of the time 00:49:23: 00:49:24 --> leading up to it is already following. 00:49:26: 00:49:26 --> It's also a role after that one, and I think 00:49:32: 00:49:32 --> that if we can do that, we'll become a richer 00:49:37: 00:49:37 --> mart. 00:49:38: 00:49:38 --> And, I think that it is necessary to make an 00:49:43: 00:49:43 --> effort after that making it well though that child's local 00:49:49: 00:49:49 --> game is also so to spread that after all. 00:49:54:

34 00:49:54 --> However, such an organic collaboration is possible. 00:49:58: 00:49:58 --> It is such a thing. I feel like I want 00:50:01: 00:50:01 --> to let you know. 00:50:03: 00:50:04 --> Excuse me, here's another beautiful cityscape with a sense of 00:50:09: 00:50:09 --> unity like that Paris. 00:50:11: 00:50:11 --> What kind of way of looking discovery is there when 00:50:14: 00:50:14 --> one look like Tokyo or an Asian city and the 00:50:17: 00:50:17 --> vagina lock reads the scenery of the whole cityscape from 00:50:21: 00:50:21 --> an art point of view? 00:50:23: 00:50:24 --> Is that the 00:50:26: 00:50:27 --> question? That's right. 00:50:27: 00:50:27 --> Well, I happened to have offices in Tokyo and Paris, 00:50:31: 00:50:32 --> and the other day, I was breathing every month, but 00:50:35: 00:50:36 --> they both looked good. 00:50:37: 00:50:37 --> As you just asked me, there is a difference between 00:50:42: 00:50:42 --> a solid historical district and something messy, but I think 00:50:48: 00:50:48 --> that both historical accumulation and modernity coexist well, and I 00:50:54: 00:50:55 --> think that it is a different show. 00:50:58: 00:50:58 --> In the case of Paris, the district is already solid, 00:51:02: 00:51:02 --> so the historical place can be close to it for 00:51:05: 00:51:05 --> a long time, but various new things are inserted there 00:51:09: 00:51:09 --> without being satisfied with it. 00:51:12: 00:51:12 --> And as a result, history emerges due to the merits 00:51:16: 00:51:16 --> of compost, or new activities are doing coexisting more freely 00:51:22:

35 00:51:22 --> by being close to the historical one, and on the 00:51:26: 00:51:26 --> other hand, what is historical 00:51:29: 00:51:29 --> about Tokyo? It is a moat after it remains as 00:51:32: 00:51:32 --> such a trace including the slope or the road or 00:51:36: 00:51:36 --> a little that, and temples and shrines for instance though 00:51:40: 00:51:40 --> there is not that remaining. 00:51:42: 00:51:42 --> Let's go there. A new thing is finished by carefully 00:51:45: 00:51:46 --> reading and comprehension. 00:51:47: 00:51:47 --> Well, there are some things that I make without being 00:51:55: 00:51:55 --> able to read, but the way of coexisting is different, 00:52:02: 00:52:03 --> but based 00:52:04: 00:52:04 --> on history, the current city is made, and it is 00:52:06: 00:52:06 --> going to the future? The base is the same, just 00:52:08: 00:52:08 --> doing it differently. 00:52:08: 00:52:08 --> And, if Tokyo can proceed firmly in the direction of 00:52:13: 00:52:14 --> reinterpreting it with courage so while valued the history which 00:52:20: 00:52:20 --> remains faintly as a so-called trace in the future, it 00:52:25: 00:52:25 --> is different from Paris, but it is firmly so. 00:52:29: 00:52:30 --> What's that? I think that the richness of the year, 00:52:34: 00:52:34 --> the accumulation of time, and the accumulation of human coaches 00:52:38: 00:52:38 --> who have thought about, interpreted, and created various things 00:52:43: there 00:52:43 --> are the richness of the year, but I think we 00:52:46: 00:52:46 --> can inherit it firmly. 00:52:48: 00:52:53 --> I gather there after all there though it was something 00:52:58:

36 00:52:58 --> from the point of view of that mart. 00:53:01: 00:53:01 --> Well, I thought that the ability of that person to 00:53:04: 00:53:04 --> gather there, whether it was an art festival at an 00:53:07: 00:53:07 --> art museum, architecture, or even a town, was very important. 00:53:10: 00:53:10 --> Yes. 00:53:10: 00:53:10 --> Well, by the fact that the person is alive, it 00:53:15: 00:53:15 --> is like the energy of the city that is born 00:53:19: 00:53:19 --> by various activities that are born well. 00:53:23: 00:53:23 --> Well, I think it's very important how it lasts, so 00:53:27: 00:53:27 --> well that. 00:53:28: 00:53:30 --> If something like developing the year is to make the 00:53:35: 00:53:35 --> hard first, how do you go as a vibe example 00:53:38: 00:53:39 --> of what you made? 00:53:40: 00:53:40 --> Well, I think that it is a cat after the 00:53:43: 00:53:43 --> museum. 00:53:44: 00:53:45 --> I'm also interested in how that one question measures the 00:53:52: 00:53:52 --> value of art. 00:53:53: 00:53:53 --> It may not be the same as monetary value, but 00:53:57: 00:53:57 --> how can art provide this value for the city and 00:54:01: 00:54:01 --> people, and how can it be reduced in weight? It 00:54:05: 00:54:05 --> is a question. 00:54:06: 00:54:08 --> Well that topic, but I think how easy it would 00:54:11: 00:54:12 --> be if it was good to be able to really 00:54:15: 00:54:15 --> make that quantitation, but it is also interesting that it 00:54:20:

37 00:54:20 --> can not be doed. 00:54:21: 00:54:21 --> Yes, I wonder what it is. 00:54:23: 00:54:23 --> Well, I think that art-oriented words are often used in 00:54:28: 00:54:28 --> the business world these days, but I don't really know 00:54:33: 00:54:33 --> what it is. 00:54:34: 00:54:34 --> Just like we've at least talked about that so far. 00:54:38: 00:54:38 --> The history that was not seen really showed what is 00:54:42: 00:54:42 --> inside the river in the 10,000 range, and then. 00:54:46: 00:54:47 --> It showed some new direction light in that chaos, and 00:54:52: 00:54:52 --> after all it was various imaginations and imaginations. 00:54:56: 00:54:56 --> After that, there is something that leads to the marking 00:55:01: 00:55:01 --> of making ichi from that 0. 00:55:03: 00:55:03 --> Well, what's like that inspiration or idea? Well, I don't 00:55:08: 00:55:08 --> know if it's the right answer, especially in times when 00:55:12: 00:55:12 --> I can't see that future, and it's difficult to quantify 00:55:17: 00:55:17 --> those quantifiable words. 00:55:19: 00:55:19 --> That's there, yeah, isn't it? Like finding a new direction. 00:55:24: 00:55:24 --> Well, how to make such a creative head is absolutely 00:55:28: 00:55:28 --> necessary, and for that purpose, of course, referring to the 00:55:33: 00:55:34 --> past is also a wonderful source of inspiration, so in 00:55:38: 00:55:38 --> that sense, in that sense, it is difficult to make 00:55:42: 00:55:43 --> that argument, but what is that view of the world 00:55:47: 00:55:47 --> and the view of that city? 00:55:49: 00:55:49 --> I'm sure it's that positive thing. 00:55:54:

38 00:55:56 --> Well, maybe that's a story from a while ago, but 00:56:01: 00:56:01 --> I'm amazing. 00:56:02: 00:56:02 --> Yes, I don't know if it was particularly around the 00:56:08: 00:56:08 --> time, so I thought that the connection to the health 00:56:13: 00:56:13 --> of art while everyone was in one box, or the 00:56:18: 00:56:18 --> place that led to stress relief, was very important, I 00:56:24: 00:56:24 --> think that Barry was shown. 00:56:27: 00:56:27 --> That question comes in pinpoint, but that is a question 00:56:31: 00:56:31 --> for Exxon, but I think that it can be said 00:56:34: 00:56:34 --> that there is a park or a bye in the 00:56:37: 00:56:37 --> same way, but I think yumeshima of the answer is 00:56:40: 00:56:41 --> a difficult place from the viewpoint of town planning from 00:56:45: 00:56:45 --> the standpoint of the building producer of the venue. 00:56:48: 00:56:49 --> The question of whether you can answer to the extent 00:56:54: 00:56:54 --> that it is an idea to summarize the basic idea 00:56:59: 00:56:59 --> from what point of view comes to that Fujimoto teacher, 00:57:04: 00:57:04 --> but when you apply the binner rate home to the 00:57:09: 00:57:09 --> town after that Fujimoto answer, if that feeling grows a 00:57:14: 00:57:14 --> little, I'm going to end that dialog again today. 00:57:19: 00:57:19 --> Yes. 00:57:20: 00:57:20 --> First of all, the local teacher's yes, yumeshima of the 00:57:24: 00:57:24 --> world expo cancellation is certainly a place that has been 00:57:28: 00:57:28 --> landfill radish for a long time in such a type 00:57:31: 00:57:32 --> of place. 00:57:32:

39 00:57:32 --> And, in that sense, it is so. 00:57:35: 00:57:35 --> I wonder, historically it is not that there was something 00:57:40: 00:57:40 --> there for a long time, yes, it is such a 00:57:43: 00:57:44 --> kind of blank zone place. 00:57:46: 00:57:46 --> But on the other hand, if you go back more 00:57:48: 00:57:48 --> and more, for example, that Nara period or that room 00:57:52: 00:57:52 --> era. 00:57:52: 00:57:54 --> So-called, it headed toward the continent. It's also a place 00:57:59: 00:57:59 --> where I went through things I was considering. In that 00:58:04: 00:58:04 --> sense, it is very so. 00:58:06: 00:58:07 --> Since ancient time, it has been one of the gateways 00:58:10: 00:58:10 --> to Japanese advertising. There's a band around there. 00:58:13: 00:58:13 --> There is such a meaning, too, and I personally feel 00:58:17: 00:58:17 --> that it is very symbolic that the Expo will come 00:58:20: 00:58:20 --> back once more when I think about it, and that 00:58:23: 00:58:23 --> the countries of the world will come together and come 00:58:27: 00:58:27 --> back to the Expo. 00:58:28: 00:58:28 --> The Expo itself is again. 00:58:31: 00:58:31 --> In the course of that 150-year history, various meanings have 00:58:37: 00:58:37 --> changed, but what does it mean to have such a 00:58:42: 00:58:42 --> world exposition in modern times is a very large type 00:58:47: 00:58:47 --> sheet. 00:58:48: 00:58:48 --> And I don't have a clear answer yet, but in 00:58:52: 00:58:52 --> an age where the world is said to be connected 00:58:56:

40 00:58:56 --> by this digital, there are physically countries around the world, 00:59:02: 00:59:02 --> so small. 00:59:03: 00:59:03 --> It is a place called Yumeshima. 00:59:05: 00:59:05 --> I personally think that getting together physically and being together 00:59:12: 00:59:12 --> for six months is a very valuable thing, as well 00:59:17: 00:59:17 --> as being digitally connected. 00:59:19: 00:59:19 --> In other words, while saying that the whole world is 00:59:23: 00:59:23 --> connected, I think that it is an era when you 00:59:26: 00:59:26 --> can not feel that it is really connected, and at 00:59:30: 00:59:30 --> that time, for some reason the world gathers in one 00:59:33: 00:59:33 --> place and everyone is spending time together. 00:59:36: 00:59:36 --> And that kind of thing. 00:59:38: 00:59:38 --> The world is diverse. 00:59:40: 00:59:41 --> I think it would be nice to be able to 00:59:43: 00:59:43 --> make something like hope that there might be something that 00:59:48: 00:59:48 --> can be shared at the same time as the splendor 00:59:51: 00:59:51 --> that becomes more and more gradually undersing. 00:59:55: 00:59:56 --> For that point, I'm really crazy about that. 01:00:01: 01:00:01 --> I can't see that the Venice Biennale also started as 01:00:05: 01:00:05 --> a world well, really expo. 01:00:07: 01:00:07 --> So, as I said earlier, I thought it would be 01:00:11: 01:00:11 --> interesting together if it was a local town festival. 01:00:15: 01:00:15 --> So, while delving into each local, by creating works by 01:00:20: 01:00:21 --> various artists from all over the world, I think that 01:00:25:

41 01:00:25 --> the world or the world. 01:00:27: 01:00:28 --> I think that it is a collection of various locals, 01:00:31: 01:00:31 --> so it is not that there is a terrible and 01:00:34: 01:00:34 --> big thing called the middle world, and that people or 01:00:37: 01:00:37 --> various local gatherings can experience ah, it is very important 01:00:42: 01:00:42 --> to say those four, but you can talk like this 01:00:45: 01:00:45 --> online, For some reason, I think everyone has noticed that 01:00:49: 01:00:49 --> vibration is different from when we are actually meeting in 01:00:53: 01:00:53 --> a realistic space. 01:00:54: 01:00:54 --> So, as information that the artwork is also called online, 01:00:58: 01:00:58 --> well yes, that's what you're doing? It is transmitted, but 01:01:02: 01:01:02 --> in 01:01:02: 01:01:02 --> that magnificent space, I used the five senses of such 01:01:06: 01:01:07 --> a person, such as a place that was somehow a 01:01:10: 01:01:10 --> little cold. 01:01:11: 01:01:11 --> Ah, art experience is not easy, and there is no 01:01:15: 01:01:15 --> vibration of the concert hall after all, so yes, well, 01:01:20: 01:01:20 --> I think that it is something that I feel with 01:01:25: 01:01:25 --> my whole body that it really stings in the heart 01:01:29: 01:01:29 --> of that person, so I think about how the city 01:01:33: 01:01:33 --> feels about Mart. 01:01:35: 01:01:35 --> After all, people use 5 senses, and if so, use 01:01:39: 01:01:39 --> the head. 01:01:40: 01:01:40 --> It seems that you can feel it while learning and 01:01:44:

42 01:01:44 --> also experienced that physically. 01:01:46: 01:01:46 --> Well, I think it would be good if we could 01:01:50: 01:01:50 --> provide such an opportunity. Thank you. Thank you very much 01:01:55: 01:01:55 --> for the interesting story from various perspectives. 01:02:00: 01:02:00 --> At least my head is very stimulating, you know. 01:02:05: 01:02:05 --> Yes, I think it was a valuable time. 01:02:08: 01:02:08 --> Also, he asked me that question, and I couldn't answer 01:02:12: 01:02:12 --> it, but I'm sorry, I'm really grateful to him for 01:02:15: 01:02:15 --> his emotions today, Fujimoto and Sendai. 01:02:18: 01:02:18 --> Thank you. Also, thank you again next year. Thank you 01:02:24: 01:02:24 --> very much. Thank you very much. Thank you for your 01:02:29: 01:02:29 --> original. Thank you for your goodness. 01:02:33:

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