Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 3 NOVEMBER 1949

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions. [3 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1287

THURSDAY, 3 NOVEMBER, 1949. '' 3. What action does the department propose taking to see that all trees planted are properly cared for in the future~'' Mr. SPEAKER· (Hon. S. J. Brassington, Fortitude Valley) took the chair at 11 a.m. Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton- Treasurer) replied- '' The information is being obtained.'' QUESTIONS.

ALLEGED SMOKING IN ABATTOIR MEAT HALL. GOLDEN INVESTMENT COMPANY. Mr. MARRIOTT (Bulimba) asked the Mr. LOW (Cooroora) asked The Attorney­ Secretary for Agriculture and Stock- General- '' 1. Has his attention been drawn to the '' 1. Who are the directors of Golden excellent set of pictures in the 'Brisbane Investment Company.'' Telegraph' of 1 November, entitled 'How '' 2. What amount was paid to that Brisbane gets its Meat,' such pictures being company in commission from 'Casket' reproductions of photographs taken at the funds for year ended 30 June, 1949 F' Brisbane Abattoirs~ Hon. G. H. DEVRIE!S (Gregory) ' '2. Will he reprimand the works replied- manager for allowing a woman buyer to commit a breach of the Slaughtering Act ' ' 1. There is no firm registered in the and Regulations, viz., by smoking in the name of 'Golden Investment .Co.' On meat hall, as shown in one of the 17 December, 1948, an application for alteration in the membership of a registered pictures~ ' ' firm-Golden Investments-was approved, Hon H. H. COLLINS (Cook) replied­ the two members of this firm being Doreen Clare Gray and Leslie Edgar Gray. " 1. Yes. "2. £23,347 9s." '' 2. Evidently the hon. member refers to the photograph showing a lady buyer hold­ ing a cigarette in her fingers. The works PAPER. manager of the Brisbane Abattoir, Mr. G. Tomlins, states that he noticed this fact The following paper was laid on the before the lady went into the meat hall­ table:- but the cigarette was not alight. Con­ Statement of Accounts of the PaTlia­ sequently, there was no breach of regula­ mentary Contributory Superannuation tions. The regulation prohibiting smoking Fund for the year ended 30 June, 1949, in the meat hall and all other regulations duly certified by the Auditor-General. are strictly enforced.'' SUPPLY. QUOTA SYSTEM AT UNIVERSITY. RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-ESTIMATES­ Mr. P ATERSON (Bowen) asked the EIGHTH AND NINTH ALLOTTED DAYS. Secretary for Public Instruction- '' Will he ascertain and inform the House (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Mann, whether any faculty at the University has Brisbane, in the chair.) fixed a quota system, based on the estimated ESTIMATES-IN-CHQueensland have, of rolling-stock. The Minister took charge through utter neglect, been destroyed by of this department at a difficult time. But :fire, will he advise- although the railways did a good job dur­ ing the war, that does not relieve the '' 1. Vlhen was the tree-planting scheme Government of the responsibility for the :first inaugurated~ efficient handling of transport in this '' 2. The number of trees planted and State to-day. They have accepted the eost to date~ responsibility of carrying out the task to 1288 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply~ the best of their ability and we expect A comparison might be made with them to do the job. Nothing the Minister refreshment rooms in other States. The may put forward can excuse them for not Victorian system is much better than the one doing so. in Queensland. In Victoria one can have a The other evening, when the Minister for knife-and-fork meal, standing at a counter. Transport was replying in the course of the I do not want to be unduly critical but I debate, he mentioned :figures for transport am quite sure thEI Minister, if he would, could from the Murgon and Kingaroy districts. improve the ,conditions in railway refresh­ Admittedly, the honourable gentleman said ment rooms. he was speaking from memory and was not I notice that the refreshment rooms showed quite sure that his :figures were correct but it a loss of £6,534 last year, but that does not will be noticed that the error was on the side concern me greatly, because these rooms are that put the railways in a better light. In necessary. They are giving service to the order that the honourable gentleman shall public and even though they show a loss, that not get away with this statement as to the is better than having no refreshment rooms preoont rates I will give the' Committee com­ at all. Perhaps that loss could be avoided parative :figures. by better management but one cannot be very The honourable gentleman said that the critical of the present amount. fare from Murgon and Kingaroy to Bris­ When I was in the South last year I bane-he was speaking from memory-was happened to go to the central station at 25s. and thB journey took nine hours. He Adelaide and I noticed that they had an said also that the fare by a:ir was between excellent method of getting tickets and 45s. and 50s. I went to some trouble to get reserving seats. When I came back I the exact figures. A& a matter of fact, when mentioned it to the Minister because it is the honourable gentleman was speaking I a great improvement on the system obtaining had in my pocket two air tickets that I had here, but he did not take much notice of bought to travel to Brisbane. I picked up my suggestion. the motor-car at Wondai and was taken to Kingaroy, where I boarded the plane. The air Mr. Dnggan: That is completely untrue. fare was £1 15s. plus the tax of 3s. a total I sent an officer to Adelaide to investigate of £1 18s. The fares given to me by Grey­ it. hound Coaches were £1 l3s. 6d. from Kingaroy and £1 15s. from Murgon. On Mr. HEADING: Then I hope the investigation I found the railway fare, from Minister will 'introduc.e that system~ In Kingaroy, first-class, was 45s. 6d. and from Adelaide they have a room where you go to Murgon, 40s. 4d. a box on a table and pick out a number. You then sit down on a comfortable seat and Mr. Spa:rkes: What about a sleeper? read the paper, or, if you have long to wait, you can go down the town and come back Mr. HEADING: If one takes a sleeper later. That· avoids the long queues we see in it is £1 extra and as the best service from Brisbane. In the interests of the people that area is at night, naturally one takes the who have to make reservations, it is necessary sleeper, if one can afford it. The second­ that something be done along those lines. clas<~ fares are Kingaroy, 29s. 6d., and Murgon, 26s. 5d. I give these :figures I wish to refer now to livestock t·raftic i:m because the Minister was very critical of the this State and to quote some figures for the honourable member for Aubigny for mak­ carriage of pigs to the factory in which I ing a mistake in some of his figures. They am interested. I take it that we do not suffer throw quite a different light on the transport any more through loss of pigs in transit than from that area, both as regards the air fare any other company operating on pigs in this and the railway fare--the latter being a few State. That being so, these figures reveal a shillings more than that quoted by the position that should be remedied. They refer honourable gentleman. to the losses through deaths in transit on the railways in south-eastern Queensland and The department must accept the respon­ sibility for giving a refreshment-room service cover a period of five years. They are- to meet the demands of the travelling public. No. of I have travelled on the railway line between Year. Total Percentage. Value. Brisbane and Gympie for the past 20-odd Carried. Deaths. years. There are two refreshment ;rooms in Pigs. £ that distance, one at Caboolture and one at 30-6-44 79,913 429 ·53 2,150 Landsborough. The time allowed for passen­ 30-6-45 91,671 276 ·30 1,423 30-6-46 112,846 528 ·46 2,798 gers to obtain refreshments is very short .. If 30-6-47 83,915 192 ·23 879 there are a great number of passengers 30-6-48 65,386 319 ·48 1,965 travelling and one is at the back of the queue one never has time to drink one's cup of tea. The Minister might give considera­ The totals for the five years are- tion to the suggestion to close one of these 433,731 pigs; 1,744 deaths; value £9,215. refreshment rooms and make the other much If we assume that every operator in the larger and give a longer time for refresh­ pig industry in Queensland suffered to the ments at that station. A few miles only same extent as we did, we can estimate the separate the two and a long"~?;r time given at value of the loss. Over the five years the one of these stations would make for greater department carried 2,251,969 pigs and at the convenience for railway passengers. same percentage of loss as was suffered by Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1289

the Queensland Co-operative Bacon Factory, Minister is deserving of some sympathy for 9,055 pigs would have died in transit, repre­ having to take over the Railway Department senting a value of £47,840. at a time when the rolling stock and per­ I might say that those figures for the values manent way were in a bad state, and his posi­ would be higher today than in past years, tion was not made any easier by the action of so that the figure of £47,840 would be much the Government in reducing the weekly work­ increased. ing hours a couple of years ago. Hence, it is not surprising to see that the Commissioner's Mr. Smith: I suppose you railed all the report contains a number of apologies for the old sows and boars in the country. fact that certain things have not yet been ltlr. HEADING: That is a silly interjec­ done. The Minister is charged with the tion. There is nothing in it. I have given responsibility of controlling the department, the numbers carried on the railways; virtually but the blame for reducing the working week all the pigs produced in Queensland would by four hours is rightly laid at the door of have been carried over the Queensland rail­ the Government as a whole. ways. I suggest to the Minister that an The first apology I noticed is contained on investigation might be made into this page 12 of the Commissioner's report in con­ matter. Before the war we were nection with coal, where it says- allowed-and the small charge incurred '' The Railway Department continues to was under the actual cost-to bring our suffer in the matter of coal supplies, mainly trucks alongside the waterstand so that the from a financial standpoint. pigs could be sprayed. I suggest that some­ ''Due to the fact that insufficient coal is thing be done today along those lines. mined on the West Moreton and Collinsville In addition to the loss caused by fields to meet all demands, and supplies are deaths in transit, there must have been a not allotted on a consumption basis, the tremendous amount of suffering amongst the railways are compelled to haul coal very pigs that got through the journey alive. If long distances from other mines to keep we are to do anything progressive in the live­ pace with consumption.'' stock industry of this State we should do The next apology is in connection with the something about this problem. As a matter personnel of the department and the difficulty of fact, at one stage my company employed a of attracting youths with the necessary quali­ man to investigate the transport of pigs and fications. The report says- on his investigation we came to certain con­ "Young men do not now take as k!len clusions as to what should be done. It was an interest as hitherto in the railway as a found that quite a number of stock trains arrived at Brisbane between 3.30 p.m. and career.'' 5 o'clock. These trains came to Mayne Junc­ Perhaps the youth of the State find more tion. The pigs had to be carried across the lucrative employment elsewhere. city to the other side of Brisbane and in the Then there is an apolegy in connection journey many of the trucks were held up with the supply of railway engines-instead of because this is the peak period in suburban­ getting 30, they got only 13. That is the line traffic. Many pigs died between their responsibility of the Government as a whole. arrival at Mayne Junction and the time they They decided to reduce the weekly working got to their destination at the various works hours and so today the rolling stock and rail­ about the city. I suggest that something way track leave much to be desired. The might be done to get the pigs into the city blame for inefficient engines and rolling stock at a different hour, so that they could be generally can rightly be levelled at the Gov­ taken to their destinations before the lines ernment. are congested by suburban traffic. Then the report points out that the depart­ The hon. member for Aubigny was telling ment has to go overseas for some of its me this morning of the system adopted in requirements. Whose fault is that~ It is America for watering pigs en route. The certainly not the fault of the Opposition. It stock trains run through a building and the is the fault of the Government. They have animals can be easily sprayed with water as been in power for 30 years and they should the trains pass through. The spray is run­ have had the foresight to anticipate some of ning all the time. One must realise the value these happenings. It is the duty of the Gov­ of watering stock e11 route to their destination, ernment to see that the efficiency of the rail­ and I am sure the people concerned in the ways is maintained. If the railways were con­ earriage of stock would be prepared to meet trolled by private enterprise its managers some of the cost of watering by this method. would looK ahead and not reduce working The Department and the consignors of stock hours at a time when they knew that they should help the operators to reduce loss in were short of materials and that by doing so transit. Cattle wagons should be covered to they would aggravate the position. protect them. One can readily understand JUr. Power: Do you know that for a that the heat must be very trying in a truck number of years production was wholly in aid carrying 18 fat bullocks in the middle of the of the war effort W day. We can help the industry and reduce the loss by covering cattle trucks and so pro­ Mr. HEADING: I am not blaming the teeing the beasts in transit. Government for that. I congratulate them I do not propose to deal with items of for the work they did during that period, receipts and expenditure in detail, but I but that does not mean that they could sit should like to refer to some matters con­ down and let everything go hang, waiting tained in the Commissioner's report. The until conditions were normal before doing 1290 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. anything to maintain the efficiency of the things, made suggestions for the duplication of railways. Instead of saying ''Boys, you railways and a number of railways to connect must work a little bit harder to build up the existing lines. service'' the Government gave them shorter It is so much tommy-rot; it is just working hours. electioneering propaganda. One day they 'l'he Commissioner in his report states that are crying out about excessive taxation and efforts to provide a l:ietter service for the the next day they want millions spent. We public have failed. Whose fault is it~ Cer­ want to· know where the money is to come tainly not the fault of the Opposition. It is from. It ·makes one wonder whether members the fault of the Government who have had opposite are sincere. They know that you control of transport for years past. They can spend only a certain amount, yet they knew what they had to face up to. If the are advocating the expenditure of hundreds. efforts of the Government have failed in of millions. I went into these figures very the State's transport system, why do they carefully last night. want to take over industries and socialise Mr. Brand: You cannot enumerate them. them~ .Mr. JESSON: I have only five minutes lUr. Power: You know more about pigs left, but if the hon. member wishes to come than running the railways. to my office after lunch I will show him the .Mr. HEADING: I know a good deal whole thing in detail. more than the Minister about certain parts of Hon. members opposite want taxation the railways. I have travelled on the rail­ reduced-they say it is strangling the man ways many hundreds of times-in fact, more on the land-and at the same time they ask than he has done. I have travelled from my the Government to spend the huge amount of centre to Brisbane for over 30 years not less £176,000,000. If they can tell us how we can than .twice a month and sometimes four times. spend that amount during the next few years As chairman of directors of my company I we shall be happy to Ji:now; and if they can have been responsible for the transport on tell us where we can get the money we shall the railways of many thousands of livestock be happier still. and I know quite a deal of the difficulties of .Mr. J. R. TAYLOR (Maranoa) (11.37 railway transport. I am prepared to co­ a.m.): I wish to add my contribution to the operate with the Minister and his officers to debate on one of the most important depart­ effect an improvement. Can the Government ments of the State. We all realise that a pre­ be satisfied with the fact that in the last requisite of an efficient State is an efficient five years the estimated loss that occurred in railway service; and I believe we have that the transport of pigs was in the vicinity of in Queensland, although I am not so foolish £47,000~ Yet when I make a statement on as to s·ay that we have everything that could a subject I am personally acquainted with we be desired. I have travelled extensively have interjections" from the Minister reflect­ throughout Australia many times, I have ing on an industry that means a great deal been in all sorts of trains, and I think any­ to the State. Is that all that hon. members body who is fair-minded will agree that our opposite can do when I make suggestions trains compare favourably with any trains that call for will and effort to make improve­ in any other State in the Commonwealth. I ments in the railways~ admit that Queensland trains cannot compete (Time expired.) with the Spirit of Progres

Mr. J. R. TAYLOR: I did not ship the I agree with the construction of that lirie I car. I happened to be a passenger in the cannot agree with the proposal to construct car. It was not my car. The car belonged a road to open up the Cooper's Creek to a business man of Brisbane. That is country. I know that country from ''go'' strong evidence of the efficiency of the to "'whoa." I have been on all the cattle Queensland railways. I travel on the stations there and I fail to see how a road railways as much as most people. I travel will give much relief to the cattle industry to my home at Roma every week-end. Men­ there. The difficulty is that you are likely tion has been made of the slowness of stock to get an inch of rain there at any time and trains but on my travels I have found on when that happens it is impossible to move. many occasions the express passenger train I do not know what will happen to one of is side-tracked to allow a stock train to pass. the stock-transport vehicles they talk about, That is as it should be, and it goes to show with 40 or 50 bullocks on it, if the rain came. that the department in its wisdom is eager The bullocks would just have to be allowed to to give all possible help to get stock trains go bush. to their destinations as quickly as possible. Any person who knows anything about stock Mr. Sparkes: But it would be an all­ knows that the longer a beast stands in a weather road. raifway wagon the more it loses weight. With Mr. J, R. TAYLOR: I am afraid a lot of that in view the department endeavours to water will run under the bridge before we have stock trains reach their destinations as see an all-weather road there. The only road quickly as possible. that would be satisfactory would be a bitu­ The West gate section of railway between men road, and that is extremely costly. If Charleville and Roma is in the back country anything is to be done out there I should and over the years the department has been favour the construction of a railway line by engaged in relaying it with heavier rails. which cattle could be taken in when there I am please-d to be able to say that the job was an abundance of feed and brought out is almost completed. The bridges have been when they were fat. There is no doubt that strengthened and when it is completed a much country has wonderful fattening qualities but faster service will be possible. Because of unfortunately the seasons are erratic. They the heavier rails heavier engines can be used. are having a good season nO'w but it may This morning and all day yesterday we be two or three years before there is another. have listened to hon. members opposite draw­ Knowing that country as I do, I am quite ing attention to alleged deficiencies in the sure that you would not be able to transport Railway Department-to what the depart­ cattle from here to Quilpie and then tal

too far, and we can think too often along the amount. I ask the hon. gentleman to look the lines, "we will call upon the Treasury" at the Auditor-General's report and he will (or someone else) "to finance it." find that £504,000 is correct. I do not see The Minister has shown a surplus of gross any reason why the Minister should have gone earnings over working expenses of out of his way to deny the stat·ement the £1,156,986 for the year ended 30 June last, hon. member made, because it is absolutely but he drew on the Post-War Reconstruction correct. and Development Trust Fund to the extent Mr. Duggan: It is collected from of £945,335. I am not complaining about authorities to operate-nothing to do with that. Since that fund has existed, of a total this at all. reserve of £10,000,000, £3,500,000 has been returned to the railways. I am not making Mr. MULLER: When he was speaking any serious complaint about that because the hon. member for Aubigny had not time much of this fund was built up by the rail· to look up the records and he said, ''I got ways during the war period. It was impos­ the information from the hon. member for sible in that period to maintain rolling-stock Fassifern that £504,000 was collected.'' and permanent way in good repair and the fund was established in order that it could The hon. member for Aubigny said that at be drawn upoli- when it was possible to do least the Government should be fair to the so. But the fund will not last for ever, it is people who constructed the roads. In his shrinking year by year, the present surplus reply the Minister said that the main road will vanish in a couple of years. For that from Brisbane t·o Toowomba was not co&ting reason I do not expect the railways to show the local authorities anything. That is not a very great surplus. correct either. It is unbecoming of a Minister t·o make such a statement; he should not be Is it the policy of the Government just ignoranl! of the facts. It may be that it was to let the passenger traffic of the railwnys sheer vanity-that lie had the idea that deteriorate~ T'hat is what is happening. Com­ members of this Committee had neither the plaints are made that the railway.~ are not courage nor the intelligence to contradict getting the passenger business but it must be him. Although the Main Roads Commission remembered that they do not cater for it. does contribute the greater part of the cost On nearly every line railway travel is too slow and the people prefer motor transport. of maintenance of main arterial roads-- If the railways want to compete with the The TEJUPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. passenger traffic they will have to put on a Hilton): Order! service equal to that given by road transport. It strikes me that the railways say, ''After Mr. ltiDLLER: In order to run the rail­ all, we carry the heavy goods and the people way successfully it is not necessary to squeeze will travel on the road in any case, so we are out your competitors. If you cannot compete not bothering about the passenger traffic.'' If with the other fellow in private business, that attitude is to be adopted, that traffie will there is something wrong. Most hon. members go by the board. It is happening today. have had &ome business experience and they The Government should let people travel by realise that very often if the other fellow road. I have no desire to go over tl,e ground in a similar line to yours is doing better than covered by the hon. member for Aubigny you are, you try to find out the reason. yesterday. He criticised the Minister's This measure was introduced to ensure fair department for imposing a vicious tax under competition with the railways. It is not fair the State Transport Facilities Act even in a to allow anyone to ply for hire on the roads great many cases where people could not use without contributing to the cost of construc­ the railways and were obliged to travel by tion and maintenance of roads, but the road. I repeat what I said, that in a great Minister seems to have adopted the outlook many cases the railway passenger service is that he can just push them out. That attitude too slow, and in other cases such a service is carried too far. just does not exist. I have no complaint to make about the TJ1e TEMPORARY CHAIR~IAN: Order! Transport Facilities Act as it applies to heavy We are not discus~ing the transport tax. transport. The people who are using the roads ilir. MULLER: I agree. I am discussing should not expect somebody else to pay for railways. their consiJrucition aind maintenance; they should be prepared to make some contribution The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! for that purpose. The railways have their The hon. member referred several times to own roadways and they maintain them. You the transport tax; that comes under another could scarcely call it fair competition to allow department. anybody to use the road at random without any contribution. I do want to say, however, ~Ir. ItiULLER: I appreciate that. The that if that is the policy of the Government Minister must not expect everybody else to in matters of heavy transport-and it is one walk out of the competition iu order to to which I offer no serious objection-the enable him to run the railways successfully. people who built the roads should receive the The Minister told the Committee yesterday proceeds; but that money now goes into Con­ that he was providing concessional tickets for solidated Revenue. The Minister denied the members of the Country Women's Associa­ assertion by the hon. member for Aubigny tion to travel from their homes in the western that last year £504,000 was collected as a districts to the seaside so that they could take result of that tax; he denied that that was their children for a holiday once a year. I 1294 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.) Supply.

applaud that idea but it is nothing to boast The employees of the department are about. These people live in the West under all expected to work under wretched conditions, kinds of conditions and surely the least the often in hovels that would not measure up Railway Department can do is to give them to the standard of dog kennels. Most of some help to get to the seaside. The Minister these buildings have been there since the line did not tell the Committee that people who was constructed. Of course, I realise that take kiclclies to picnics are asked to pay the the officers of the department have to be transport tax, although they cannot use the careful about making complaints. Although r::ilvyays on the particular clay of those they are entitled to ask for some attention, p1cmcs. They have to get a special licence to they are expected to work under the rottenest do. this or us.e ~he railways. The important conditions in the world. Recently we pomt I make 1s that frequently a railway amended the Workers' Accommodation Act service is not available. Then again there to require pastoralists and others employing are farmers who want to transport their stock labour to provide proper accommodation for to agricultural shows. No railway service their employees. If the Minister can con­ exists-the railways never run in that direc­ vince me that some of the offices and other tion. In order to get that stock to the show buildings that station-masters and others they have to get a special licence and pay this work in measure up to the required standards tax. of hygiene and comfort, I have yet to learn something about the subject. They need The TElUPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. attention from carpenters, as do some of the Hilton) : Order! I have been very fair to trucking yards and loading facilities. If the the hon. member. He is absolutely ignoring department, instead of employing gangs from my direction. I cannot allow him to continue Brisbane and other centres, called tenders to discuss road transport on this vote. for some of the work that is being clone by lUr. ~IULLER: I have no wish to dis­ railway carpenters, more than half the present with your ruling, Mr. Hilton. I have cost could be saved. I am not a carpenter, endeavoured to comply with the wishes but I have noticed the time taken to do of Chair. In accordance with your wish, very small repairs. I will leave this matter, but I was taking the With a department as big as this, covering opportunity to reply to some of the assertions such a wide area and employing so many made by the Minister. However, I will discuss people, an improved system of supervision in it later on the transport votes. the workshops and outside would lead to con­ Although we have additional funds to try siderably reduced costs. Because we have a and keep our railways in a sound economic monopoly of this business-Parliament must condition, we must not lose sight of the fact accept some responsibility for it-we should that there is need for efficiency. In our rail­ not feel self-satisfied and we should not mis­ way service there are a number of very fine lead ourselves into believing that we have the employees, people who are doing a good job, best system in the world, because it is not but there are also people who· are not doing so the best system by any means. Although I well. The actions ·of these people who are cannot endorse all that the hon. member for slacking on the department are very greatly Aubigny said, because I have not been out­ resented by those who are pulling their weight. side Australia, I do think he was right. I know it to be a fact in some of our work· As to the Minister, I suggest it would shops, and in some of the outside work too, widen his viewpoint, his replies would be of a there are a number of such people, but so higher standard than they have been during far as I can see nothing is being clone to remedy this state of affairs. Railway pro· the past few years, he would be a more useful Minister, and Queensland would gain if he perty, such as trucking yards and buildings, was sent overseas to see what is happening on are getting into a very serious state of dis­ repair and when it comes to effecting repairs the other side of the world. the Commissioner frequently finds he has not sufficient money to do this work and at the Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (12.19 same time keep the railways in a sound finan­ p.m.): At the outset, I wish to record my cial position. The time has come when matters resentment at the statement by the hon. mem­ of this kind must be gone into very carefully. ber for Fassifern that the only qualification My statement is worthy of close examination. of many of the people who work in the Rail­ It is not my duty to come into this Chamber way Department is that they vote Labour. If and condemn anybody, but one can go to rail­ a man who is seeking help from me-and I way workshops and notice that although a know this applies with even more force to great number of the employees are doing a Ministers-tells me that he has voted for me, good job, there are also a number of slackers he immediately discounts the value of his on the job, men who are living on the depart­ case. Generally speaking, I think hon. mem­ ment. Although taking action in this regard bers on both sides apply that principle, and is a very unpleasant thing to do, it must be I strongly resent the hon. member's sugges­ done. In the past there has been a tendency tion. for Labour Governments not to hurt the feel­ The Queensland Railway Department with ings of these people because, after all, they its 20 ,000-odd employees, is the largest vote Labour, and that is all that counts with organisation in Queen&land. We are very Labour Governments. lucky that an organisation such as that is as lUr. }'nrrell: What rot! efficient as it is and gives the public of Queensland such an excellent service. I pay Mr. MULLER: It is true and the hon. a tribute to the administrative section of the memb~r l:nowc it. department as I feel its efficiency is due to Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1295 the splendid work of its administrative I particularly reMmmend hon. members to officers. Speaking of the Minister, and read that part but I think it is appropriate breaking into racing parlance-seeing that that I should elaborate on the consequences this is Melbourne Cup week-I would say and the necessity for coal to be hauled these that he is by ' 'Capacity'' out of long distances, which besides being tedious ''Diligence.'' The Commissioner is a man is very extravagant and uneconomical. we all respect and admire, even if the open­ According to the report every ton-mile of ing phrase of his letters runs "I extra or unnecessary haulage increases the regret . . . . . ' ' Our Commissioner is a man cost of coal by 2d. a ton. The net result of experience and common sense, qualifi­ of the increased haulage, apart from the cations enabling him to achieve results. I increased cost at the pit-head, of coal used by have had the pleasure of having Mr. Maloney the railways last year amounted to visit my electorate since his appointment £255,698 14s. 8d.-over a quarter of a mil­ as Commissioner. lion pounds. In addition, several public utilities in Brisbane, such as the Brisbane Mr. Sparkes: He went to the Callide? City Council and the City Electric Light Co., Mr. BURROWS: Yes, he has been to which next to the Railway Department are the Callide. I was with him for a few day& the largest consumers of coal in Queensland, during his visit and I could not but admire had to face the same economic problem and his common sense and his businesslike that is reflected in the higher costs of elec­ approach to the various proposals put before tricity and the higher rates that the people him. Generally speaking the high standard of Brisbane had inflicted on them recently. shown in the administrative section of the In the past six months 40,000 tons of department is evident right down the scale, Callide coal have been carted to Brisbane to our lad porters. and industries here are clamouring for more. For an organisation of its size the per­ It is not an exaggeration to say that we are centage of "no-hopers" in the Railway starving for coal. We have coal in Queens­ Department is less than in any other land everywhere, yet we have not enough es·tablishment with which I have had experi­ to burn. It seems strange, nevertheless it is ence. As a member of the Government true. We have not got it where we need it party, I am happy with the department as and we have not got efficient means of cart­ it is and as a Queenslander I am proud of ing it to where it is most needed. it. I have travelled on other railway systems According to the Commissioner's report, and to me the basis of criticism of the again on page 12, the cost of the additional depart~ent is explained by the old saying haul of 45 miles equals 7 s. 4d. a ton or that diSJtant fields are green. Our railways approximately 2d. per ton per mile. The did a marvellous job during the war and are building of the Callide to Gladstone railway c~ntinui_ng the good work notwithstanding the link would shorten the haul by 117 miles and difficulti~s they face ...If this country is at 2d. per ton per mile one can appreciate faced With another cnsis-and I sincerely the immense contribution the building of hope we shall not be, we shall derive some that railway link would make to the economy comfort by being able to say ''Thank God of this State. we have our railways.'' I have here a map showing the distances If I had not expressed my appreciation of and other relevant features of this railway ~he department I should have been neglect­ project and I should like every hon. member mg my duty; my only regret is that I have to have a look at this map, which has been not the capacity or the ability to express described as a very eloquent one and is not t~at _appreciation fully but I hope my wrongly described. In calculating the value smcenty makes up for my lack of eloquence. of this projected railway we can leave out some of its most important features. We I must say that on my experience anybody can forget about its value to the Callide who wants to be critical will find it difficult export trade and the good land it will open to be honest at the same time. The financial up for settlement. At the present moment result ?f the worki_ng_ of the railways is an area of 140,000 acres of land in the shown m the Comm1sswner 's report and in Calliope Valley is regarded as pretty good particular I should like to commend hon. land. It has been frozen for soldier settle­ memb~rs to that part of_ it giving a compari­ ment. This line would go right through the son With figures for raJ.lway systems in the Calliope Valley. I repeat that for the pur­ other S~ates .. I refer to Ta?le 20 on page poses of my argument and in order to keep !16, which gives some very mteresting and to the point, we will forget about these two mformative statistics relating to the railway important features of this line. Either of systems of other States and is a complete those I am discarding would warrant its an_s':"~r to anyone. who is foolish enough to construction. cnhcise the effic1ent service we enjoy in Queensland. As hon. members have observed in the Press, the Victorian Government have offered Because of their inefficient or short-sighted a three-year contract for 250,000 tons of Cal­ policy private enterprises, particularly in the lide coal per annum. They fixed a limit of metropolitan area, are in need of coal and 250,000 tons per annum only because they the few paragraphs on page 12 of the Com­ realised the impossibility of getting a greater missioner's report indicate much more than quantity. Let us, as I said, dismiss everything is apparent at first glance the extent to which else and for the purposes of our argument see the department has denied itself in order to what advantage this projected line would be to supply cheap coal to industries in Brisbane. the finances of Queensland. vVe will take for 1296 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. the purpose of our calculation that 120 000 Mr. LUCKINS (Maree) (12.39 p.m.): I tons of coal is used or transported to Bris­ propose to take a trip on the railways and to bane each year. For the last six months 40,000 examine them and see whether there has been tons of coal has been transported to Brisbane any vast improvement in the service since we and industry is clamouring for more. It com­ last discussed it. plains that this coal is in short supply. I contend therefore that my basis of 120 000 After reading the article in the ''Courier­ tons is a conservative one. If we calcu'late Mail" I do not know whether to sympathise it at 2d. a ton-mile, we get a saving of with the Minister or congratulate him. £117,000 on the State's coal bill alone. Many difficulties confront him. Hon. mem-, The Premier, in a recent letter to the bers might look at the matter from different Callide-Gladstone Railway League pointed angles, but I think all admit there has been out that he visualised the use of a heavy type deterioration in the assets of the railway of rail for this project, similar to that used system of Queensland that is not altogether by the Broken Bill Company on a 3 foot 6 due to the splendid service the railways gave gauge line, and said that the construction of a in the war period. The department made a similar type of line to Callide would cost lot of money and much profit and I have £3,000,000. Interest on £3,000,000 at 3i per always contended that that profit should have cent. amounts to £105,000 per annum. As I gone back into the coffers of the department pointed out a few moments ago, on the car­ to enable the railways to be brought up to riage of 120,000 tons of coal required by the standard at which they should be today. Brisbane, you would save, not according to my There is one outstanding feature of our :figures but from reliable authoritative :figures system which is very clistur bing to visitors quoted in the Commissioner's report, at 2d. a to this State. Railway station buildings, ton-mile no less a sum than £117,000. environments, and amenities are not up to Apart from that, ti1ere are the other proper aesthetic standards. They are the s::'eh as export coal and the development dirtiest public buildings in Queensland and tne V alley and the general trade that I say this advisedly. With a little attenti~n would the construction of such a line. and a little bit of paint, used by those m The value of this line would not be confined charge of a railway station, they could be to the saving of £117,000; it would be of brightened up. Conveniences could be benefit to the people of Victoria, South Aus­ brought up to elate. After all, the railway tralia and even New Zealand, which country stations at Ipswich, Rockhampton, and many we could supply if that line was built. While other centres of the State are ugly and an I was in Canberra the other day I was eyesore, not at all in keeping with the city informed that inquiries had been received or town they serve. I hope these observa­ from South America for Callicle coal. The tions will be useful to the Minister. most important point of all, however, is that at present we are not getting enough coal; At the outset I mentioned that I did not Victoria and South Australia are not getting altogether know whether I should congratulate enough; and New Zealand is not able to get or sympathise with him. His job is very it. If the line was built we should get all difficult. He is a newcomer to the office, but the coal we wanted and they would be able he has plenty of intelligence, vision and cour­ to get it too. age. As one hon. member said, he is bold, and boldness goes with courage. I hope he I make no apology for flogging this sub­ will accept this problem with both hands, and ject. I bring it forward every time I have see whether he cannot make a vast improve­ the opportunity. I firmly believe this is ment of the conditions brought about by the something the importance of which extends neglect by former Ministers for Transport. far beyond Port Curtis. The construction of It must not be forgotten that the control this line would be sound, economic and com­ of this service has been in the hands of the mon-sense. When it is built the person respon­ Government 'for the past 30 years. sible will be entitled to have the line dedi­ cated to his enterprise, courage and intelli­ Mr. Jesson: What is wrong with it? gence; and those are the characteristics required for its construction. Mr. LUCKINS: The hon. member should I do not want anybody to think that I am get a pair of glasses and use them. Be will opposed to the work to eliminate the rack see deterioration of assets and the amenities railway-I believe it is necessary-but its that go with them. I know too much about contribution to our economy is much smaller the amenities at railway stations. They are than the contribution this line would make. not up to standard. The Minister has The fact that that line is justified emphasises admitted there are shortcomings in the depart­ how much more warranted the construction ment and we are here to help him overcome of this Callicle line is. I maintain that they them by pointing them out from the view­ are both necessary, but the difference in point of the individual member as it affects importance between the two projects is as his own district. great as the difference between a politician I will not take the hon. gentleman too far and a statesman. The work on the Dawson from Brisbane. For instance, take the Valley line will save hundreds of pounds, but amenities in many parts of the metropolitan I maintain that the work on this line would area. Employees are asked to take their save thousands of pounds. Its value and its meals and recreation in dumps that are not contribution to our economy determine its at all attractive. After all, most people are importance; and I think it is something we concerned with the conditions under which should never lose sight of, we should never they live and work. Railway men give a very rest content till it is built. good service and are entitled to decent Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1297 amenities. We, as legislators, have instructed South African railways. Coloured people are private enterprise to provide amenities for employed on fettling and maintenance work their employees in factories and workshops, but many white people also work in other parts and we should see to it that the conditions of the service. I know the South African provided for governmental employees are as railways well. I know that many white people up to date as those demanded of private are employed, but strangely enough, the fett­ enterprise. ling and other outside work on the lines is There have been many debates in this done not by natives but by Hindus who were Chamber on what I might term class distinc­ imported from India for that purpose. It tion. I think the time has now come when must be admitted that an excellent service there should be only one class of railway is rendered on the run from Durban to travel. As it is, we find :first-and-second-class Johannesburg and from Capetown right carriages, :first-and second -class ticket through. windows, and other discrimination. 'fhe There is another point I wish to raise and abolition of this class distinction would obviate I am sure the engineering staff will be able a great deal of waste and extravagance. to cope with it. Within our metropolitan Passengers should be given a one-class ser­ area there are some very fine and highly vice, a first-class service. Second-class travel valued residential areas adjacent to railway should be eliminated. There are not two yards and wharves. If I do nothing else this classeB of people in this State. We have not morning I want to bring very forcibly to the the same problems as other countries, where notice of the Minister the deterioriation in they have mixed populations, where they have the value of home and family life that has extremely poor, middle-class, and wealthy been brought about through the disturbances people. We are all on the one level here and at Dock Street, South Brisbane, caused by the elimination of the second-class would the off-loading of coal brought down from mean that fewer inl'lpecto~s would be required, the Callide. The noise associated with the there would be less congestion and less dis­ unloading is a disturbing element to the resi­ turbance. dents of this area. There is a beautiful out­ look from Dock Street across to the Botanical After ail, in the metropolitan area the Gardens and the Gardens Reach of the river. greatest distance to the suburban district·s is The area is a very valuable one residentially. about six miles and there is really no need I passed on to the Minister several letters I for two classes there. It is interesting to note had received complaining about the noise and that the development in our suburbs is taking the smoke nuisance. I will not add any other place round tram and bus extensions to a nuisance because a statement has been issued very much greater extent than it is round about that nuisance and as politicians do not the railways. There must be a reason for that come out too favourably I will not bring it and I ask the Minister, the Commissioner, the up again. General Manager and others in the depart­ ment to get away from the old system, intro· Last Sunday there was a continual bang­ duce something up to date and make the ing and clanging when ships were unloading railways so attractive that they will be able and considerable disturbance was caused to to compete with ot·her forms of transport. the residents. Sometimes the disturbance occurs at night-time. I remember many years One way in which an improvement could be ago, when I was an alderman of the Brisbane effected in the department is by establishing a City Council, going down to have a look at service to collect goods from warehouses, this place to see what could be done to abate bring them to the station and see them the nu,isance. At that time the Commissioner dispatched by train to their destinations. In was good enough to review the position and that way we could recapture some of the trade we submitted that instead of using Dock that has been lost to road transport. We Street for the unloading of coal for distribu­ must :find ways and means of improving our tion in the metropolitan area, the department service, even if it means introducing new should use Pinkenba, which was an equally blood. We have come to realise that if we good place for the purpose. Pinkenba is away are to improve, if we are to modernise, we from residential areas and there are facilities must employ men from other places who have there to distribute the coal as good as those knowledge of improved methods. There should at Dock Street. be ample money to do this, because the Govern. I want this matter taken seriously. I do ment have ail the profits made by the railways not want to have to call a public meeting to during the year. That being so, a greater protest against the noise, because I know amount than is suggested in this vote should the difficulties facing the department. The be allocated for the improvement and recon­ question has been agitating my mind for a ditioning of the railway service. long time and I ask the Minister to make a If we are to meet the competition from out. personal investigation to see if the residents side we shall have to have, too, faster and nearby cannot have at least their Sundays more up to date trains. We have been in peace. At present they have to suffer dis­ promised new types of trains for passenger turbance during both day and night. traffic, but they will have to be as modern I want to say again that the smoke nuis· as the services in other parts of the world. ance and the noise are causing people a great Comparisons have been made with the rail· deal of concern. We have had coal-burning ways in other parts of Australia and in South engines ever since we have had a railway Africa. The Minister is right in his remark system. The Commissioner was good enough about the low cost of maintenance of the to inform me that the department was going 1298 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

into the question of using diesel engines for and I have no objection to that. One instead of coal engines. If anything could be department should not be penalised in the more disturbing than continual noise and interests of another. smoke, I should like to know what it is. The Complaints have been made in the Press smoke floats in the air all through the dis­ from time to time of the absence of proper trict and the people nearby have to keep lavatory accommodation on trains in the their windows and doors closed the greater metropolitan and country areas. This is part of~the day. Surely to goodness, in this very distressing to a man travelling with year of grace 1949, we can evolve some children. method of combating this menace. I have ~Ir. Keyatta: Provision is being made soon no difference in our railway engines for that now. since I was a lad, but I know there have been improvements in motor-cars and other forms Mr. LUCKINS: I am pleased to know of transport. In Brazil there are electric that but at least I am entitled to ask that engines, pulling tremendous loads. We are these services be brought up to date. I know the same as we were in 1880. ~he difficul.ti~s invo~ved and I am not charg­ mg the Mmister With neglect but the facili­ :Mr. Smith: Diesel oil is very expensive ties should be provided. to use. lUr. Low: Particularly on rail-motors. :Mr. LUCKINS: I am not concerned :Mr. LUCKINS: Yes. If the services about the expense. The expens'e is there and cannot be provided there is something wrong it has to be met. The convenience of the wit~ the ad.minist.ration of the department. department should not have preference over It 1s very d1stressmg to women and children the health of the community, for after all if proper means are not provided to enable people have not a great time to live on this them to obey a call of nature when travelling earth-the average span I suppose today on a train. • is between 50 and 60 years. While they are on this earth they should have the best Mr. DONALD (Bremer) (2.15 p.m.): At amenities and conditions that we can provide. the outset of my remarks I wish to tender If it is the view of the department that its my thanks to the Minister, the Commissioner convenience should have precedence over the and particularly to the Secretary to the Corn: health of the I cannot agree with it. missioner, Mr.. Ling~rd.. A.s one representing I ask that be in the way of an electorate m which IS s1tuated the largest these a residential railway workshops iu the State, it is only to natural that I should have a great deal of business to do with these gentlemen and I All hon. members receive free railway should be lacking in appreciation if I did not passes, and an amount of £9,000 a year is express my thanks to them for the courtesy the Treasurer to for and willing manner in which they have member does use his attended to any representations I have made does the Commissioner still make a to them, either personally or on behalf of the on Consolidated Revenue for it~ staff of the workshops generally. It is not that I have been able t·o convince them of the The CHAIRMAN: Order! That matter comes under the Chief Secretary's Depart­ soundness of 100 per cent. of those represen­ ment and cannot be discussed on this vote. tations, or anything like that percentage, but they have always extended to me courtesy and lUr. LUCKINS: It relates to the Rail­ shown a willingness to help and have on way Department. numero~s occasions enabled me to help others to rectify wrongs and overcome difficulties. ~Ir. Duggan: Do you want to get a As one who uses the railways :five days a refund~· week at least in travelling to and from my home in company with the hon. member for :Mr. LUCKINS: No, but I want the tax­ Ipswich; I want also to express my appre­ payers to get a refund in the bookkeeping ciation of the courtesy extended to me as a arrangement. member of the travelling public by the offi­ The CHAIRMAN: I find now that the cers of the department. I am sure that they matter comes under the vote for ''Legislative do not know that we are members of Parlia­ Assembly'' and that vote has already been ment-we do not desire them to know that­ dealt with. but we get very efficient attention and cour­ tesy from them all, including the boys at the :Mr. LUCKINS: The Railway Depart­ barrier at Central and Roma Street Stations. ment gets £9,000 a year from the Treasurer If any business undertaking has a more effi­ in payment for these railway passes and I cient and a more willing and courteous staff want to know how the amount is made up. than the Railway Department has at the I want the Minister to tell me and if he is Booval Station it is very fortunate indeed. not prepared to do so I intend to give In particular, in Mr. Mason, the station­ notice of a question on the matter and to master, the Railway Department has a very ask for a detailed statement of the payments. efficient and courteous officer, one who meets I do not see why the taxpayers should have with complete approval from the travelling to pay the Railway Department the cost of a public who use the railways every day. My pas-s that is not used. Why should they have sentiments will be re-echoed by anyone who to pay for a railway pass if I do not use comes in contact with him in the busines!f of iU If it is used then it should be paid the department. Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1299

It is very pleasing indeed to hear members have confidence in them. The increase in of the Opposition praisi~g the Queensland business on these light parcels alone is cogent railways. I do not know JUSt what has come evidence that they are giving a good service over them that they should adopt such .a not only in the heavier goods traffic and pas change of attitude, but it is as p~easin_15 as It senger traffic but in this class of service also is surprising. It was surpnsmg m the The livestock section had the smallest extreme too, to hear them remark that the increase of all commodities transported on railways exist not alone for the purpose of the railways. The hon. member for Logan making profit but to give servi~e to. the com­ mentioned that goods and livestock traffic munity. It is very encouragmg mdeed to carried our railways, but it should have been hear Opposition members, not once b_ut on goods and passenger traffic. The goods several occasions, remark that the railways increase amounted to over 60 per cent., while give a splendid service to the community and the livestock traffic showed the least increase. that whether they made a profit is a secondary That may be because of the desire-and 1 consideration. We shall soon have some of am not objecting-to keep livestock rates as them endorsing our socialistic platform. low as possible, because stockowners are Mr. Morris: Never, never! deserving of help. The deficit was reduced from £671,087 to Mr. DONALD: I should not expect the £315,613. That again is very satisfying. I hon. member for Enoggera to endorse that think sooner or later we shall have to do objective. so!llething about our tremendous interest bill. The praise of hon. members opposite of the It is not fair, nor is it morally right, that Railway Department's splendid war-time ser­ the Railway Department, year after year, vice is also pleasing though belated. The should carry such a tremendous handicap. officers of our armed services during the war­ Last year the interest rose by £8,726 and it time knew the worth of the service that the is now £1,472,599. The burden of interest railways gave to the nation in its hour of can be shown by referring to the Qommis­ peril, and how completely efficient they were sioner 's report on page 10. At the end of run. that page there is a very interesting table under the heading-'' The Railway Pound­ I alluded to this fact in my speech on How it is Earned and Spent.'' We will dis­ the Address in Reply. There is no gainsay­ regard the earning capacity because that has ing the fact that the service was so efficient nothing to do with the poin.t I am trying to that even our strongest critics in this depart­ elaborate. ment, as well as those engaged in private enterprise, admitted it. If some person were to tell you casually in the street that it cost the Railway Depart­ When we realise that the earning capacity ment more each year to pay for interest than of the railways last year amounted to nearly it did to pay for the coal and other fuel it used £15,000,000, we can see what a big business you would challenge the statement straight undertaking it is. Of that amount­ away. One does, however, expect salaries £14,927,153 to be exact, £9,715,120 came from and wages to head the list and salaries and goods traffic. Passenger traffic receipts wages account for 13s. 10.29d. The railway amounted to £2,740,282, parcels and miscel­ pound is spent as under- lane~us revenue to £1,167,897, and livestock s. d. revenue to £1,303,854. All of these amounts Salaries and wages .. 13 10.29 show a tremendous increase on the previous . Stores and contingencies 2 2.11 turnover. Of the £3,795,229 increase in Coal and other fuel .. 1 3.68 revenue, £2;982,196 came from goods traffic Refreshment room services 0 5.97 and £457,779 from passenger traffic. Payroll tax . . . . 0 4.36 These :figures prove two things-firstly, Workers' Compensation and in- that the people who contend that the rail­ juries to persons 0 1.88 ways will always be the means of conveying Uniforms 0 1.11 the greater part of our goods from one Part of interest on capital 1 6.60 locality to another are right; and secondly, In other words, only part of the interest on that the railways can maintain their passe~­ capital costs the railways more than coal ger business in spite of the :fierce compet;­ and other fuel to keep the services in opera­ tion from air and road transport. This 1s tion. In other words, the interest bill costs indeed very pleasing and shows that if we more than all the consumption of coal, petrol, can give additional comfort in the passenger oils and other fuels. That proves conclusively service we shall be able to overcome any the handicap under which the Railway challenge from air or road transport. Department works in having to pay for the The volume of miscellaneous traffic is at use of money that has been paid for over least very surprising, particularly when you and over again. I say quite definitely that take into consideration the intense competi­ no-one can justify the continuance of requir­ tion from air and road transport. Road ing the Railway Department to meet this transport is very keen and can accept small interest bill year after year. parcels and deliver them with perhaps greater Mr. H. B. Taylor: You have overlooked facility than the railways. Notwiths~anding the fact the Government borrowed £44,500,000. that, the department has been able to mcrease its business in this direction and this shows Mr. DONALD: I am not overlooking that instead of criticising the railways anything. I am emphasising the fact that adversely, · a large number of the people the interest bill is something to which serious 1300 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. consideration must be given. This State a pension scheme without any of the difficul­ should not be asked to continue to pay money ties mentioned by the Minister as being con­ over and over again, far in excess of its tained in the scheme drawn up by Mr. Colin value. Clark. It is easily understandable, and in spite of the fact that it was supposed to be The increase in coal haulage is another very actuarially unsound, it is giving good service serious problem confronting the Railway indeed, and I am told it is giving equally Department. This again shows how the Rail­ good service in all the other coal-mining way Department is carrying the burden of States of the Commonwealth. industry generally. The distance the coal had to be hauled this year in excess of the Another service rendered by the Railway haulage of last year was 45 miles, making Department is that enjoyed by ex-service men a total haulage of 167 miles; in other words, who are enjoying the benefit of the trainee­ coal for the Railway Department had to be carpenter courses at the Ipswich Railway hauled 99 miles further than coal for private Workshops. These lads are grateful for the· enterprise. If the department decided to opportunity afforded to them by the Railway use Bundamba and Rosewood coal and forced Department to become fully-qualified trades­ private enterprise to obtain coal from Blair men. They are giving satisfaction not only Athol and the Callide Valley the cost on to themselves but also to the department. revenue would be lessened but the burden There has been a great deal of comparison would be placed on private enterprise. I between railway services given in this State would not suggest that at all. The railway with those available in other States and service exists to give a service to the corn­ throughout the world. Some time ago I had munitv. But I draw attention to this in­ occasion to quote an extract from the '' Bris­ crease-d cost as the result of the extra coal bane Telegraph'' in which the manager of haulage. The haulage of coal costs the that paper, Mr. McDonald, said that outside department £371,926. the main lines in America, when he was It could be put in this alternative way: travelling in the United States he often if the Railway Department had not to meet wished he was home in Queensland enjoying this cost it could have met the interest bill the benefits of the Queensland railway and finished the year's business with a sur­ services. plus of £56,313. The amount of £371,926 My travels in Austmlia have been confined involved in the extra cost of hauling the to the three eastern States. I have never coal to the various. depots was £56,313 greater been further than Queensland, New South than the annual deficit. That shows, if it Wales aud Victoria, and my overseas journeys shows anything, the necessity of putting into have been limited to the north island of operation without any delay the recommenda­ New Zealand but I say without fear of tion of the Powell Duffryn Group to develop contradiction that the railway service in the West Moreton coalfields and to do this Queensland compares more than favourably as quickly as possible, so that industry gener­ with that of any of the States I have visited. ally and the Railway Department can make At one time before coming into this Chamber use of some of the best coal in this State. I travelled to Sydney on the Kyogle train frequently, and our Sunshine Express to The Commissioner's report makes some North Queensland is by far a more comfort­ mention of the Queensland Railway ambulance able train in every way, despite our narrower service. Mt. Mulligan, which is one of our gauge. I admit that the Spirit of Progress outposts in the north of Australia, is the only is a wonderful train. I have not travelled place where I have seen the ambulance wagon in a better, and when people tell me there in operation. The night before my arrival are better trains in the world than the Spirit there, the wagon, which was at that time the of Progress I am thoroughly convinced that only means the people there had of getting they must be indeed good trains. the injured and sick to hospital, was used to take an injured man away for treatment. That brings me to the point-and I sup­ The service that the Queensland Railway pose many other Queenslanders have had ambulance organisation gives to the people is similar pleasure-that I was travelling in the immense. Classes are conducted throughout Spirit of Progress on one occasion with a the State year after year. Any person in the companion from Melbourne and a companion communit.Y is welcome at these classes. In from Sydney. They got to discussing the addition to giving first-aid instruction to relative merits of their railway services, and employees of the service, it gives anyone in all hon. members know the keen rivalry that the community the same tuition as the rail­ exists between Sydneyites and Melbourneites. way employees and in this way is rendering The Melbourne man eventually convinced the the community very great service indeed. company in which we were 'that the Spirit of Progress was better than any train in New Some criticism was levelled at the Minister South Wales, but the companion from New for the delay in putting the superannuation South Wales said, ''But with all your money scheme into operation. As the Minister has and all your expense you cannot go past the answered that charge very effectively and Spirit of Progress. Outside the Spirit of shown that the railway unions themselves Progress your service is nothing much at could not make up their minds, I do not all.'' I think that pretty well sums up the intend to deal with it except to say that the position. On the whole, our service in Queens­ employees cannot understand why they can­ land compares favourably with that provided not have a superannuation scheme on the anywhere else. Before the Spirit of Progress same basis as the Queensland Coal and Oil was put on the rails in Victoria the train Shale (Mineworkers) Fund. There we have that went from Albury to Melbourne was Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1301 no better than our Queensland trains. and Ipswich, and back in the same way in the Certainly one can get a good ?'leal on the evening. The Commissioner and his officers Spirit but one has to pay for 1t. Th_e ser­ say that it is impossible to give us this ser­ vices provided on the New Zealand railways vice, the provision of which would prove a. are no better than ours. boon to the people living beyond Goodna. I was surprised that on Exhibition Day, when I want to say that in the railway work­ the traffic generally was heavier than usual,. shop employees at Ipswich we have a the department could run a train exprL'SS set of men who can produce railway from Goodna to Brisbane. If it could do that equipment and rolling-stock cheaper and every day, it would give a large number of· better than any other place in the workers a much-needed improved rail service· world. This has been proved over and from Ipswich to Brisbane. over again. These men are, however, generally dissatisfied because they are not getting a fair I suppose I shall be accused of using the allocation of the new work. The Minister has parish pump if I refer to the need of build­ explained the reasons for that; he has on all ing a subway at the Booval railway station. occasions done his utmost to meet the men The approach on the southern side is satis­ and give them what they are seeking, in an factory,_ but on the northern side it is not effort to bring about a better relationship all that it should be-people are compelled between the department and the men. The to go over a steep overhead bridge to reach men employed at these workshops have in a the other side of the station to buy their practical way demonstrated their love for tickets. The platform is very dangerous, culture and search for knowledge. The insti­ too, and needs raising. tution as a big organisation is unique in that it has a rostrum committee that organise talks (Time expired.) every day of the week on all subjects under the sun. It is a voluntary organisation and Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ meetings are held every day. Before speakers Minister for Transport) (2.41 p.m.): Yester­ are asked to speak, and while the men are day time prevented me from dealing with having their lunch, records of what is con­ the comments of all the speakers on these sidered the best music in the world are Estimates up to the time of adjournment. played. What is more, there is a public The hon. member for Nunc1ah made a very address system. There is also a workshop useful contribution to the debate and directed educational organisation running general lec­ attention to the various requirements of the tmes. At the workshop the men have a din­ State. He was of the opinion that the time ing-room committee that provides three-course was opportune for the department to intro­ meals for ls. 3d. This committee supplies duce diesel-electric locomotives into the rail- on an average 350 dinners as well as cut way system of Queensland. He out lunches for 70. It has assets of alm;Jst that in recent times there has a tre- £4,000 and for the year just concluded showed mendous increase in the number of these loco­ a profit of £296. The menu is changed from motives in operation in other countries and clay to day and from the menus I will quote he was of the opinion that we were lagging hon. members will be able to realise just what behind them in not having similar loco­ is provided for ls. 3d. Here is a typical motives here. I desire to point out that there menu for Monday- are peculiar and particular problems associ­ Soup ated with the designing of diesel-electric loco­ Roast Beef motives for Queensland. I have on Pie various occasions pointed out that the Pastry and Jam chief limiting factor to having more Date Pudding powerful locomotives built to suit' con­ Blanc Mange ditions in Queensland is that the strength of Apple Pie and Custard the bridges did not permit us to employ loco­ Here is today's menu­ motives carrying a greater axle load than Soup 12 tons. Therefore, our designing engineers Roast Beef were restricted considerably in providing the Pie tractive effort required under such a limita­ Apple Jelly and Custard tion. With the diesel-electric locomotives the Steamed Pudding axle loads are slightly higher than for steam Apple Slice locomotives but they have some compensating Blanc Mange advantages. I do not know very much about engineering and I do not propose to go into Although a profit is not made out of the engineering details, but there is what is known dining room, the committee was able to make as the dynamic augment whereby the diesel­ a net profit of £296 with a capital account at electric locomotives may have a slightly higher £3,636. axle load than the steam locomotive and because of its tractive power do· no more I take this opportunity of speaking about damage to the track. the Brisbane-Ipswich rail service. The metro­ politan district of Brisbane has an efficient As a result of our inquiries abroad we have railway service and it cannot be bettered until ascertained that manufacturers in England, it becomes electrified. The Brisbane-Ipswich including English Electric Coy., have service is better now than it was, but we can­ drawn up epecifications of diesel-electric not get one train a day running express locomotives that may be suitable for our from Goodna to Brisbane, to take the workers requirements. When Mr. Hall was in to their work from stations between Goodna England he interviewed several of the · 1302 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. companies, including the English Electric vacation and permit them to take their lea> Company. That company has stated at irregular periods over the year. It hf that it will furnish plans to us of a been felt that it is not to the department diesel-electric locomotive of about 1,320 horse­ advantage to accept this proposal althoug power that will conform to our track standard I am sympathetic with the men's reques specifications. The same company is prepared At present particularly, when there i& to submit plans and has already built diesel­ shortage of accommodation at the seasid• electric locomotives of slightly higher horse­ they may be compelled to pay inflated pricE power, about 1,600 horse-power, with a top for rented houses, and that does impose speed of 120 miles an hour, limited to an heavier burden on the breadwinner than i official maximum speed of 75 miles an hour. he were allowed to take his holidays a Of course, in England, there is a relatively other periods. However, the clepartmen shorter track and a greater density of popu­ is required to maintain traffic throughout th lation than here, which enables them to main­ year. Shop assistants are compelled to wor: tain a high standard of tractive power at a at the Christmas period and it is impossibl very high rate of speed over a given section. for them to get leave then. When I wa I understand that the company will submit engaged in the retail trade\ I could not ge the details to us and when they come to hand holidays in December, but immediately afte they will be analysed to see whether it is that vacation our leave was arranged. 1: economically possible to use them here. number of people must defer their leave t< A number of diesel-electriq locomotive'! suit the convenience of their employer. have been built in England but the cost is We are not adopting an attitude of pun in exce&s of £70,000, whereas our "0" 17 cussedness at all. If it could be clemonstratec locomotive is slightly over £20,000, nearing that leave could be given without closinE £25 000. We are only in the initial stage. down the workshops or impair theil We' could only order a limited number efficient operation, I &houlcl be willing tc of diesel-electric locomotives, because we recommend the Oollllllissioner to give favour· cannot order in quantity when this 'loco­ able consideration to the request. Our motive is only in its initial stages. It is •experience, however, has been that it h felt that maintenance costs will be les·s necessary to have a complete shut-clown to because of their greater availability in traffic. make an overhaul of equipment. That is They can be kept in traffic 20 hours out of common to all big industrial organisations. the 24 in the day. The only attention My inquiries, generally speaking, reveal that particularly required is in the nature of all large-scale industries close clown for a preventive maintenance, the reverse of what period for overhaul of equipment although it is rqquired in a steam locomotive. The is true that some examination of plant and design is such that every conceivable .safetly equipment is cursory, because it is not device is installed on the controls. The fact possible to dismantle all machines and have that they can go 800 miles without refuelling them back in service on resumption after or re-watering-and that has been tested over the close-down period. a period of years-indicates that they have plenty of advantages. Other advantages sug­ It has also been demonstrated that in gest that their purchase price, although high, these big engineering shops balanced produc­ is justified financially. tion must be maintained. For instance, the blacksmiths must be able to maintain a sup­ We have not overlooked the use of these ply of iron-work for the wood-working locomotives, but so far we have been pre­ section for repairing wagons. The whole vented from giving consideration to them 'scheme of the workshops is that there must because no locomotive company has been pre­ be a regular flow of work from one section pared to give us designs suitable for our con­ to another. If we are to maintain a free flow ditions. A representative of General Motors of production from one section to another we Company which manufactures about 90 per cent have to keep the whole lot going. It is of the&e electric-diesel locomotives in U.S.A., largely for these reasons we cannot agree was in Bri&bane some time ago. He had a to employees having leave throughout t~e conference with us and very kindly took back year. I have had arguments put up m to America all our technical data for sub­ rebuttal. We find that a large organisation mission to, the heads of General Motors like the Main Roads Commission which laboratories to see whether they could draw at one time arranged staggered leave found it plans and sp.eci:fications for a diesel-e~e~tric was essential to close down and have its major locomotive Elllltable for Queensland conditiOns. engineering machines overhauled during No doubt the company has other commit­ vacation so that a complete start could be ments for it supplies hundreds of locomotives, made when the general body of employees and consequently it has not been able yet to resumed work. give consideration to producing a suitable type for us. There is also another factor: the children would miss school perhaps if they had the The other point mentioned by the hon. opportunity of taking holidays other tha~ at member for Nundah was that of staggering Christmas or midwinter. I can appreciate leave in the workshops. This question has the desire of the hon. member for Nundah exercised the minds of the officers of the to serve the interests of the men at Nort~­ department for a long period. There are a gate, who say that we c~mld, grant t~eir number of e~ployees who feel that the request without loss of efficiency. That vieW department could without any disadvantage is not accepted by the department. It has operate its workshops during the Ohril'ltmas not been demonstrated to my satisfaction. Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1303

However, I am open to conviction. Up to Mr. DUGGAN: I have never been per­ date I have not had the requisite amount of sonally offensive to the hon. member for evidence put before me. .Aubigny. Before proceeding to reply to the other Mr. Sparkes interjected. speakers who have taken part in the discus­ sion I want to deal with an article that T4e TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! app~ared this morning in the ''Courier-Mail.'' I must ask the hon. member for Aubigny to The task and role of official opposition in obey the call to order by the Chair. this Parliament is entrusted to hon. members opposite. That is the democratic process. Mr. DUGGAN: If I have, I have never If the peop;te in a democratic vote give a been offensive consciously. If I have lapsed majority to one party, that party forms the I regret having done so. I have lashed Government, and the party that is not able out at the former hon. member for to do so forms the official Opposition, whose West Moreton, and clashed with that hon_ job it is constructively to criticise the pro­ member more frequently than with any gramme of the Government. If the point other hon. member in .this Committee, but is reached where its members can convince there are few people for whom I have a higher the majority of electors that it would be good personal regard than I have for him. When to have an alteration they can appeal to the we had our clashes in this Chamber and later electorate for a change. However, the vested met in the billiard-room everything was for­ interests in this country apparently feel that gotten. I frequently played billiards with that democratic process is not sufficiently Mr. Maher when he was a member. The same e:xercised in this and other Parliaments, and applies to seV'etrall other members of the they choose other means to engage in pro­ Opposition. My opposition to them ends here paganda. One of the most suitable mediums in this Chamber or on the political is the newspapers. The newspapers have a It is not carried further. I regret responsibility because of the virtual monopoly the insinuation and assertions of hon, and control-and I will qualify that in some member for Aubigny. I did not attack him degree at a later in case I am mis- personally. I attacked him for what I con­ construed-because c:xercise a virtual sidered his completely irresponsible criticism monopoly in the of news and of the Railway Department. I think in all they are able by their circulation to affect these matters he is completely uninformed or the minds of the people who read their papers. misinformed. Because I formed that The ''Courier-Mail'' enjoys a of him in that regard does not mean far as morning are concerned. think he is a person who is not read the '' '' for many years and commendation in other directions. I I admit that there is room in the him in his role as an irresponsible critic of for a free Press. I believe it is the railway administration and I leave it to the to the effective operation of a democratic good judgment of members of this Committee system to have a free Press-free and un­ to say whether these assertions of mine are trammelled. But I sav without fear of well-founded or not. However, I do not want reasonable contradiction that the Press in the to be diverted from this other point about main in the metropolitan areas of Australia propaganda. shows a most marked hostilitv to the and programme of the Australian So long as we have an impartial and untram­ Party. (Opposition interjections.) I say melled Press, it is a good thing in a demo­ that much of this propaganda is completely cracy. I do not want hon. members to think irresponsible, in this sense: if I engage in that I am constantly reiterating this fact political propaganda criticism may be offered under the impression that constant reiteration against me, but I am responsible to my party, will make it true or that I resent construc­ to my constituency, and to this Parliament tive criticism. I welcome constructive criti-. for my actions and action can be taken cism. The hon. member for Wide Bay will against me if they think my conduct is such learn that in a few minutes when I am deal­ that I should be removed from office. But ing with his suggestions. This article in the if the public as a whole feel that the ''Courier-Mail'' apparently was occasioned by propaganda emanating- from leading articles the fact that generally speaking, with the in the ''Courier-Mail'' or some other morn­ notable e:xception of the hon. member for ing newspaper is not to their satisfaction Aubigny, these Estimates received fair they cannot depose the editor, the leader­ examination by hon. members opposite. In writer, or the management of that paper. It the main, with the notable e:xception of the is true they may write and say that if the hon. member for Aubigny, the criticism has article is not up to the required standard they been very fair. It has been intelligently will refuse to read it or buy it. applied. I have no resentment against hon. Mr. Sparkes: The trouble with you is members who have spoken. Some of their that :vou are a little bit too conceited. You suggestions have been recorded and will be take it too seriously. e:xamined. I do not for one moment resent criticism. ' It is VfJry necessary for a\:ly Mr. DUGGAN: The hon. member is try­ administrator to have constructive criticism. ing to be personally offens.ive. I do not believe in being surrounded by syco­ phants. I want to have the true facts of the Mr. Sparkes: Not at all. situation. If I make an error of jw1gment on Tbe TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. the evidence that has been put before me, I Dunst:m) : Order am personally responsible. I hold my officer& 1304 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

personally responsible if the evidence they be used when future construction is embarked put before me is inaccurate, false or mislead­ upon. Our rail-motor trains represent a ing. All I ask of them is that they follow marked improvement in design, riding com­ the great tradition of the Public Service and fort and efficiency. advise their Ministers to the best of their ability. I have no quarrel with my executive Are not these things, involving an expendi­ officers at all. There is a very happy co-opera­ ture of over £10,000,000, a considerable con­ tion between us and I appreciat·e their very tribution to the modernisation of our system~ high standard. Let me say, too, that orders have been pla~ed for these things. This is not some conJec­ This particular article, apparently, was ture or dream, not some blue-print that is motivated by the desire to hit the Government lying in the Commissioner's office for imple­ because the Opposition has not been severe mentation in 10, 20 or 50 years' time. How enough while these Estimates were under con­ can I be charged with keeping to administra­ sideration. The article states- tive detail on that account W If this is mere '' But the whole scale and proportion of administrative detail I hesitate to think what his speech were not inspiring. He gave would constitute a major step towards the the House details of a railways rehabili­ rehabilitation of the railways. I could have tation programme including buying loco­ traversed the whole ambit of plans we have motives, building new workshops, and send­ for the ultimate and eventual development ing an officer abroad. of our rail system up to the standard of efficiency we want to see operating in this "Clearly, he regarded these as major State. There is no degree of complacency on policy announcements. But t·hey were not. our part. They were administrative details that would barely warrant mention _in the annual report It has been stated here that we want new to shareholders of a maJor railway company blood, that we should kick name of these abroad.'' men out. The leader-writer says- What does the leader-writer of that paper '' Our railways are the freak; the sub­ mean by a statement of policyW I went down normal departure from standard. They to the dic.tionary a few moments ago and stay that way because the majority of obtained this definition from the Oxford Queensland people are not able to see rail­ dictionary- ways abroad and make comparisons; and because Government railway officers are not '' A course of action adopted and pursued under any compulsion to equal the best or by a Government Party, ruler, statesman, be fired.'' &c.'' Mr. Maloney came to me as Commissioner not What I outlined to the Committee was the very many months ago. I want to pay him course of action adopted by the department, the tribute of saying that when he was aware or about to be adopted by the department, in of the fact that we were definitely encourag­ effecting the rehabilitation of the railways. ing all sorts of plans and so on, he took acti_on. I outlined the programme, involving an expen­ I will wager that there has been more roo~Ing diture in excess of £10,000,000, for th~ J?Ur­ around down in the Railway Department Since chase of new rolling-stock, for the ehmma­ Mr. Maloney, who is not a young man and tion of gradients, for the elimination of obso­ who has not been sent abroad, came to me lescent rack locomotives, and for new wagons. within the last few months, than for a con­ I instanced during my speech in reply on siderable period before that. If the manag­ this report that advantage was to be taken ing editor of the "Courier-Mail" displayed not only to replace existi~g desi)Sns an~ stock the same zeal, enthusiasm and efficiency as but to seize the opportumty of Improvmg: the the present Commissioner for Ra~lways we design and tractive effort of these engmes. could expect a much better mornmg paper We are not satisfied with merely replacing than we are getting at the present time. the B18i, the C17, the C19, and PB15 loco­ motives. I stated before that the Beyer­ lir. Hiley: And he is a Commissioner Garratt locomotive represented a notable con­ who has grown up from the traffic side of tribution to the locomotive tractive effort of the department. the railways, an increase of 50 per cent. in tractive effort of our locomotives. Is not :Mr. DUGGAN: Which I agree is a very that a reasonable contribution to modernisa­ desirable consideration. The paper goes on tion, to the rehabilitation of a system that, to say that generally speaking we operate on my own admission, is not up to the stan­ the worst rail system in the world. I have dard that I and the Commissioner for Rail­ no doubt the hon. member for Aubigny would ways would like to see~ chortle to think that he hq,d such authentica­ tion of his allegations in this Chamber the As to carriages, we have embarked for the other day. first time in the history of the railways upon the building of steel carriages. We have under :Mr. Sparkes: Someone else holds the consideration at present the building of seven same view as I do, apparently. complete sets of trains for the country, and I am hopeful I can get authority to have :Mr. DUGGAN: I shall have something to them air-conditioned, too. Special plans are say about that. The leader-writer of the being prepared so that we can examine the "Courier-Mail" is not the only man who estimated cost of that programme. travels abroad. The hon. member for Aubigny is not the only man with the means to travel We are embarking upon the construction abroad. One of the gentlemen who have of steel wagons. We are making improved travelled abroad in comparatively recent bogeys for our passenger coaches, which will times is a man ·of equal or greater merit Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1305 than the leader-writer of the ''Courier-Mail.'' I will not accept the Leader-writer of the I refer to the managing director of the Bris­ Brisbane ' 'Courier~Mail'' as being the most bane "Telegraph," Mr. W. R. McDonald, competent to expresS' an opinion. He said­ who went abroad on several occasions, both in " Our railways are the freak; the sub- the capacity of newspaper manager and as a normal departure from standard.'' lecturer. This gentleman spoke on many That is a gross• and fantastic exaggeration. things and saw a good. many people an_d this He then goes on to talk about the provision is what he said on h1s return to Bnsbane of the convenience of a shower, and break­ as reported in "The Telegraph" of 8 May, fast in bed, and says- 1947- " In the United States, the Santa Fe , 'I sat in the fastest, cleanest and railway, for example, offers journeys over smoothest-running, best-equipped trains in distances a~· great as ours. The compart­ the world-and in the slowest, dirtiest and ments are air-conditioned, you can take most equipped trains that I have a shower, order your breakfast in ever in.'' bed.... He was to American trains and I "What is needed is an entirely new want to sav many of those railroads spirit, an energetic refusal to remain have some n;:agni:ficent trains but the majority inferior. If the Queensland pioneers had of the fliers at a loss, their profit s·hown as little initiative as the State's being made on branch lines, where noth- present-day railways, the land would still ing like a compaTable service is given. be in the hands of the aborigines.'' The hon. member for Aubigny spoke about I want to say it is not my purpose to see the provision of refrigerated cars but the firm that breakfast is served to railway passengers in which he is indirectly interested, Swifts in bed. If some newspaper writer of the Ltd., provides its own refrigerated cars. It is "Courier-Mail" likes to have his breakfast not the of the railroad to pro- in bed, I want to say that spirit was not evidenced by the pioneers of this• country. I vide these cars. equipment is in many do not want to see our service providing ins·tances by private companies and breakfast in bed. I do not mind providing .not by the railroad system. hot showers or the air-conditioning of coaches or a dining-car to provide meals :iUr. Sparkes: They are private com­ but I do not want to recommend to the panies. Commissioner or the Government that we ~Ir. DUGGAN: The railroad system should have hostesses to titillate the palate provides the engines and the other equipment and stimulate the appetite of business necessary to assemble the complete train and executives who want to have their breakfast move it from one town to another. So far in bed whilst travelling from Brisbane to as our passenger trains \}T8 c~n:c~rned­ Cairns. I could point to many inaccuracies and I accept the full respons~b1ht(y for in this journal from day to day, this paper that making thiSJ considered statement-if you claims to be the dis:>eminator of news to a exclude the Spirit of Progress in Victoria news-hungry public. When the newspaper and the Transcontinental in South Australia, roundsman comes to any Minister for any and one or two other special trains item of news, invariably the question is, our passenger trains c,ompare more than ''Has this been released to any contemporary favourably with any other trains operating paper~" I am prepared to say that if the in the Commonwealth. Government authorised the expenditure of £10,000,000 and the information was released ~Ir. Sparkes: You are pulling your own to the ''Telegraph,'' not one word of it leg. would be mentioned about it in the ''Courier­ Mail'' the following day unless it was in :Mr. DUGGAN: I have the conclusions a column next to Dagwood or in what would reached by Mr. Hall, the Ipswich workshops be called the waste-paper basket. Such a superintendent, who went abroad recently, paper is not concerned about the dissemin­ and he pulls no punches. He said when deal­ ation of news. All it is concerned about is ing with the rail-motor position that Aus­ to get an advantage or a benefit over its tralia lags very much behind certain con­ rival. From time to time it advocates tinental countries. So far as England is decentralisation and charges the Government concerned, he had this to say- with neglect of decentralisation. But what does it do~ It tries to destroy every pro· " That our better-type coaches compare vincial newspaper in Queensland. It seeks to reasonably well with those of Britain being send its papers by air and road· to every used for general passenger service. '' part of the State. And let me say, for the I am not saying that the standard is high benefit of the hon. member for Aubigny, and I agree with the Leader of the Opposition that while other people pay a tax in respect that we have too many obsolescent trains on of road transport for the removal of goods, our inter-city runs and long-distance there is a complete exemption in the case of journeys. If I can get approval for the 70 the conveyance of newspapers. Of course, steel carriages I am seeking, we shall be when they are transported by air they have able to withdraw parts of the original Sun­ to pay the prescribed rate of tax. And this shine train to make up one complete standard paper clamours and cries about decentralisa­ train to go to such places as Gympie, tion while at the same time it seeks to get a Toowoomba, and so on where the volume of stranglehold over country newspapers at traffic justifies that service. Mackay, Bundaberg, Toowoomba, Gympie, 1306 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

and elsewhere! It seeks a virtual monopoly between Brisbane and Toowoomba we have of news to be provided by a paper published three big operators, namely, the Western in Brisbane without any effective opposition Transport Co., Browns, and Redmans _I;td­ at all. It pays no tax on their road trans­ There is obviously a measure of competitiOn port. between these three. They maintain costly From time to time we are told about the establishments in Brisbane as receiving depots. question of costs-how they are going up, There is an economic limit above which it how costs are spiralling. How often have is not desirable to go and another below these self-appointed critics exhorted the Gov­ which it is not desirable to go. I agree ernment to do something about the rising that where the volume of trade justifies com­ costs~ How often have they charged the petition in transport licences that competition Government with doing nothing to control should be forthcoming. them~ These self-appointed critics say they Mr. Sparkes: Do you think articles believe in decentralisation, that there should should be carried 160 miles by train when be an effective control and brake on the they can be transported 100 miles by road~ spiralling of prices, but in 1943 it cost 14s. for a single column inch in the ''Courier­ Mr. DUGGAN: There is no need to deal Mail'' whereas in 1949 the cost has risen with that point, except to say that we have to 28s. 6d. for the same space in the paper. demonstrated that where the railways, par­ Not only did they do that, but they also ticularly in passenger traffic, are not up to adopted this very clever smart newspaper the standard we do agree to licensed services. trick of increasing the number of columns For instance, the passenger service from from eight to nine. In 1939 the cost of Warwick to Brisbane through Cunningham's Government advertisements for half a page of Gap cuts off a considerable distance. We do 88 inches was £46 4s., but at the present time the same in the service operating between the same coverage of 88 inches costs £125 8s. Brisbane and Murgon, which the hon. member These are the people who say they are for Wide Bay mentioned. eoncerned about arresting these increasing and I want to say before getting onto the other spiralling costs, but let them put their own speeches that there is no complacency in the house in order. Let them set an example to Railway Department about the problems that the rest of the community and let them show confront it. I deny the impeachment that the same proportionate increases in their our trains are a joke and I deny the impeach­ rates as have been made in railway freights ment contained in the leading article of the and fares. If I had been able to increase ' ' Courier-Mail. ' ' railway freights and fares in the same ratio as the ''Courier-Mail'' has increased its Mr. Hiley: They are no joke. I should be able to show a handsome Mr. DUGGAN: I want to say that my on the railways and be able to provide senior officers, myself and the Government a fund to develop the many projects con­ too are fully conscious of the heavy respon­ sidered desirable from time to time. sibilities and obligations that devolve upon There has been a notable decline in the us, that is, to try to infuse into our system standard of the ''Courier-Mail.'' a higher degree of efficiency anc1 a higher one time there was competition in Bris­ standard of comfort than exists at the present bane-when we had the ''Brisbane Courier'' time. Surely, when I outlined a programme and the ''Daily Mail.'' Then we did have a of construction involving ten million pounds, choice of a morning newspaper, but wh3n the it cannot be described as a mere recital of fusion took place between the ''Brisbane detailed administrative acts, particularly Courier'' and the ''Daily Mail'' the literary when new types of engines, new coaches, new standard of the ' 'Courier-Mail'' was not carriages, and new methods are provided fod maintained, and we lost the factual and The first speaker today was the hon. mem­ interesting reading in the ''Daily Mail.'' lost both the literary standard and the ber for Maranoa, who was kind enough to esting and factual information of both the acknowledge several courtesies he had received ''Brisbane Courier'' and ''Daily Mail.'' from the Commissioner and his staff. He outlined certain proposals, which we will JUr. Evans: And you people believe in examine to see whether we can give effect to the nationalisation of banking. them. 1\'Ir. Hiley: Will you apply the principle 1\'Ir. Sparkes: I think you are again of competition that you have just been preach­ wrong. I think the hon. member for Wide ing when you are dealing with transport Bay was the first speaker. You know you are licences~ infallible. Mr. DUGGAN: I believe in a measure Mr. DUGGAN: The hon. member is of competition so far as transport licences right. The hon. member for Wide Bay was are concerned. I will deal with that at a the first speaker. I will deal with his remarks later stage when the Estimates of the Depart­ shortly. ment of Transport are under consideration. We have increased the tonnages that trans­ Mr. Sparkes: We all make mistakes. port operators can carry. When the maxi­ Mr. DUGGAN: Yes. The difference mum is reached we advertise by public tender between us is that I am prepared to admit for new services. It is obvious that new mine. (Laughter.) licences should not be granted when that maximum is not obtained. For instance, Mr. Sparkes: You become abusive. Supply. [3 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1307

Mr. DUGGAN: The main point made by for the Tourist Bureau we shall be able to the hon. member for Maranoa was the con­ increase our window space and make available struction of the St. George-Thallon railway. accommodation for people who are waiting. We cannot for the time consider committing We have very limited room. We have a book­ ourselves to any particular railway other than ing at six windows. those already approved of by Cabinet. I do not know what effect the redistribution I have given the matter a great deal of thought and should like to see the South will have on the hon. member for Maranoa. Australian system introduced if circumstances If he vacates the Maranoa seat in favour of are such that we can have more room than at the Balonne seat, his advocacy of that railway present. It is an innovation. It will be will lose none of its sincerity, and it will closely watched, and I assure the hon. mem­ be in very competent hands indeed. ber that as soon as we have an opportunity I must confess that I was not able to fol- of implementing it, favourable action will be low closely one of the main points made taken. That is contingent on the Tourist by the member for Wide Bay because Bureau's moving out or on the making of I was reading a proof of my speech and I some other structural alteration. was therefore distracted somewhat. He spoke particularly of the carriage of pigs. I give The hon. member for Fassifern was the next speaker and his main complaint was that the hon. member this a~snrance. The sugges­ tion he advanced will be considered. I will he felt a degree of complacency was affect­ read his speech and I will arrange for officers ing the administration. I want to say to the of the department to read it, and if there is hon. member that I deny that suggestion. I some useful improvement that can be adpoted think we get far too many letters of criticism as the result of his suggestion we will give for that, and members of Parliament have sympathetic consideration to it. access to me-I do not turn away deputations -and they have a full and free opportunity Another of the hon. member's main points of ventilating any criticism or bringing to the was the Provision of an altered method for · notice of myself or the Commissioner or other bookings ~on long-distance trains. When I officers any deficiency in the administration. interjected he was gracious enough to admit These things occur frequently and because that there was some misunderstanding. I they occur frequently there is no occasion for have thought of the matter for some time. us to adopt an attitude of complacency. The \Vhen I come to my office, particularly at Commissioner and Mr. Lingard are kept very Christmas and ;Easter, when qu,eues have busy at times as the result of queries that go developed, it is more evident than at other out because of criticism offered about the times. I have discussed the question whether administration. we could effect some amelioration of present eonditions. More recently the hon. member I assure the hon. member for Fassifern for Wide Bay brought me back information that whatever limitations and weaknesses I from South Australia about the system there. have-and I have many-resentment of critic­ I discussed it with the Commissioner and ism is not one that can be fairly placed on senior officers and we arranged to send an my shoulders. At times I might reply rather officer specially to Adelaide to see what the vigorously but I can assure the hon. member advantages of the system were. I want to that there is no personal resentment in my say that there is no doubt there are advan­ replies. I am not critical of the hon. mem­ tages to be gained by adopting it. Briefly, ber for bringing forward suggestions. So it is this: they issue a ticket very much like long as they are made fairly I do not mind the ticket the bank-teller issues; they are of at all. I admit that on Friday I spent a different colours for each day; and the considerable part of my time in endeavouring recipient retires to a sitting-room and waits to deal with criticism offered by the hon. until his or her name is called. The average member for Fassifern. In my opinion the period is about 15 minutes and the people hon. ,member was not up to his usual standard know from experience how long it will be that day. I may be wrong, but that is how before they are attended to, and if they find it appeared to me. We all have our good that they are 10 numbers ahead they can some­ and our poor days. I thought there was times go away and have a, haircut or transact some weakness in his logic and in his critic­ some business without losing their positions. ism and seized upon it. If I did the hon. Of course, if they come back after their member an injustice in that regard, I am number is called they have to go to the indeed sorry. That was my opinion. bottom of the list again. In reply to the hon. member for Fassifern The position there is that ample space is I must say we are not concerned about available and ample seating accommodation squeezing our competitors because we are a for 30 or 40 people. Their system is confined State-owned instrumentality and exercise a to interstate windows in a separate hall. It vested monopoly in the conveyance of goods. is necessary for people to go there for other We are no more squeezing competitors than than intrastate bookings. They have a separ­ the hon. member does, or the people he repre­ ate area where these bookings can be carried sents do. , We know that the primary pro­ out. I should like to see something introduced ducers of this State have set up a primary on those lines here and I hope some day we producers' organisation with the full shall do so but there are practical objections acquiescence and encouragement of this at the present time because of the very Government. Frequently I receive deputa­ restricted space that we have. The Government tions. Very recently I received a deputation Tourist Bureau shares some of our space. If from members of the Onion Board, who com­ ultimately other accommodation can be found plained about being squeezed out by their 1308 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. competitors. They wanted me to push out llr. DUGGAN: Yes, I think two or three. competitors of the Onion Board. They As a measure of assistance to intending con­ wanted trucks to be made available to trans­ tractors, we have agreed to help them in port the onions of the Onion Board to Wal­ obtaining supplies of materials. langarra, and never mind about their com­ petitors. In effect they wanted me to give The hon. member for Port Curtis, naturally,, them a virtual monopoly in the transport of and very properly, drew attention to the· their commodity. I frequently get from hon. development of coalfields in his district. I out­ members opposite someone growling about lined the other day the many problems that: that sort of thing. They are properly carry­ required consideration by a Government as ing out the request of primary producers far as coal supplies are concerned. We must using orderly marketing methods for the be very careful, before committing ourselves distribution of their commodities, but they to the very large expenditure that is involved object to competition from someone else. in the haulage of coal, to see that there is The hon. member must be rather careful in a continuing market for it. At the present not pressing too far this question of trying time we are very grateful indeed for Callide to squeeze out competitors in the transport coal. I hope that for a long while Callide coal of goods. will be required, but I want to qualify that to some extent by saying that it is normal I cannot deal with the hon. member's and reasonable business procedure that if coaJ statement on the State Transport Facilities of proper quality can be obtained much more Act. That debate will take place later and cheaply near by, these are the places at which then I shall be very happy to deal with any development must be encouraged. points he likes to make. ~Ir. Sparkes: But you have no other I do not agree that the standard of accom­ open-cut mines much closer than that. modation provided by the Railway Depart­ ment is poor, as the hon. member :for Fassi­ :Jlir. DUGGAN: It is not a question of fern suggests. I went to Mount Isa and open-cuts at all, but where the coal can be other western areas last year. I was agree­ obtained quickly and as cheaply as possible. ably surprised-I do not say this with any We are not likely to be paying 90s. odd a ton smug satisfaction-at the standard of accom­ for coal from Blair A thol and slightly less modation provided by the Railway Depart­ from Callide if we can get it for about £2 ment, particularly in the north-western parts from West Moreton. We have our immediate of the State. The hon. member for Carpen­ requirements, our intermediate requirements, taria is in the Chamber and he will agree and our long-term requirements to consider. If with me that the general standard of accom­ on investigation it is found uneconomic to modation provided for railway employees in develop the West Moreton mines, or that the North-West of the State compares more the coal is not there in sufficient than favourably with the accommodation pro­ quantities, it is obvious that we have vided by other industries. Some fettlers' to go to the next nearest point where coal cottages require rebuilding and action is of the requisite quality can be economically taken progressively in that direction. We are mined in sufficient• quantities to meet doing away with the practice of using tents demands. It may be that if the West More­ for fettlers in that part of the State. Our ton fields cannot be developed we shall have, Estimates make provision for 100 huts with to go to the Darling Downs, where there are wooden floors to be made available to men vast deposits of coal. It is obviously much in lieu o:f the existing canvas tents. cheaper to bring coal from the Darling Downs than 600 or 700 miles from Central Queens­ Mr. Muller: I was referring to office land. On the other hand, if coal of the requi­ accommodation. site quality and quantity cannot be obtained there, we must progressively go further ~Ir. DUGGAN: Thank you. I agree that office accommodation is severely taxed at the afield. It seems to me that there are not only present time. The worst case is perhaps the immediate pro&pects for Callide coal, but it General Manager's office at Roma Street, may be that it can compete with other coals where there is a great deal of overcrowding. at a later date if rolling-stock becomes Of course, there is strong call by all Govern­ available. ment departments for more accommodation. On the question of the rail link, the Govern­ The building of a new block for the General ment have not a good deal of information Manager at Roma Street will have to be available to them at present in connection faced as soon as we can do so and I hope with the various routes that have been sug­ the Government will accord to it a very high gested. I want to be perfectly fair to the priority. In some of the outer areas, too, hon. member for Port Curtis and point out the accommodation is not what it might be that the only information available to the but we are going ahead much more quickly department or the Government is the very in the progressive replacement of our larger early surveys made many years ago. I fee! stations. Tenders closed :for the erection of quite confident that in the light of more recent the Cairns railway station and plans for the knowledge and more modern surveying prac­ Rockhampton railway station are progressing tice more suitable routes can perhaps be very favourably. We shall be giving con­ selected than those which were tentatively sideration to other large-scale projects when those two are completed. offered to the Government some years ago. On the information we have available in the :rtrr. Low: Have you received any department, it would cost us about £2,835,000 tenders for Cairns? to build a line on something like the route that Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1309 was suggested in the early survey. I am provide the opportunity for the infusion of not saying that is is. the one that would be capital, so that production costs ultimately followed, because it would need a resurvey, will be reduced. and we have not the surveyors at the present time to do that. We have not the sleepers, Tenders closed this week in London for 1,000 coal wagons and we hope that the and we have not the rails to do this job, deliveries according to schedule will be such even if it was deemed to be the most prac­ that we can effect a good deal of rolling­ ticable scheme. What we are doing is trying stock in a matter of 18 months. As dis­ to provide improved rail facilities for the tribution facilities become available we shall Callide field so that increasing quantities of have a clearer picture of the requirements coal can be brought from there to the coast and the demands for coal not only in Queens­ and ultimately to Brisbane. Whether that land but from the other States. I can assure coal will be lifted from Rockhampt•on or Glad­ the hon. member for Port Curtis that on the stone, is a matter for the future to deter­ present position the Government have no mine, but I feel sure that the claims of Glad­ alternative but to build the 11 miles; we stone will not be overlooked any more than have not rejected the idea of a direct line the claims of Rockhampton, because the Glad­ to the coast, but this is a matter to be held stone Board 'obtained a.pproval :fXrom the in abeyance until, as I said, we get a clearer Government for the expenditure of £100,000 picture of the coal traffic over a long period on improving loading facilities there, and is of time. spending it, and the Government will be obliged to spend large sums of money in pro­ The hon. member for Maree had a few viding unloading facilities in Brisbane. observations to make and I must confess that he was more restrained on this occasion than The '' Dilga,'' to which the hon. member the last time he spoke. He was much less for Maree referred this afternoon, has taken critical and I thank him for his temperate 8 or 9 days to unload 4,500 tons of coal. approach on this occasion. I want to tell The methods of unloading are primitive him that one or two buildings are an eyesore indeed, and if we are obliged to draw from an aesthetic point of view, but I sup­ increased quantities of coal from the more dis­ pose that the railway being common carriers, tant sources of supply, it is obvious that we their purpose was utilitarian. I am sorry that must spend large sums of money on improv­ I have not with me plans of the Cairns rail­ ing the unloading facilities at the 'port of way station, or I should have laid them on Brisbane. We had a conversation with the the table of the House for all hon. members proprietors of the open-cuts at Callide as late to see. This is a very fine building indeed. as this morning. It is expected that when The Rockhampton railway station plan also the new line is completed-the 11 miles from is modern and conforms to the highest Callide to Biloela-the tonnage of coal will aesthetic standard demanded by the hon. increase to 1,000 tons of coal a day, in other member for Maree. words to 5,000 tons a week, from each mine. The estimate of £2,835,000 to which I The hon. member mentioned also the ques­ referred is made up as follows:- tion of abolishing first-class fares on our £ suburban railways. When the electrification 11 miles of new line at £35,000 comes along, there will be only the one fare per mile 385,000 but in the meantime the department is reluc­ tant to abolish the first-class fare, purely on 6 extra crossing loops on Daw- revenue grounds. It gets £20,000 a year by son Valley Line 30,000 continuing the first-class fares, a sum of Extra sidings, Gladstone and money that it is not prepared to lose at the Jetty 20,000 present time. With electrification people will Regrading and deviating Mt. have to entrain and detrain quickly and there Morgan Line 400,000 will be no time for running up and down the 800 "VJM" Wagons at £1,000 platform looking for a first- or second-class each 800,000 carriage--they will have to get in.to the first 20 Garratt engines at £60,000 coach available. We could not abolish first­ each, or alternatively class fares on long-distance trains because 30 "BlSt" engines at £43,000 of the benefit to the department from the each .. 1,200,000 viewpoint of revenue. The social-status factor does not come into the picture-it is £2,835,000 the cold, hard, pounds shillings and pence that concern the department. These costs are apart from the actual cost The hon. member referred also to the of the line for the distance mentioned by unloading at the wharves. Eventually I the hon. member for Port Curtis, which would think these operations will have to be moved represent a large capital sum. On that basis, to Pinkenba but in the meantime the people if we were committed to that proposal for 52 in the area will have to put up with some weeks' operations in a year, with interest and inconvenience. I hone it will be possible to Tedemption of capital and 1,000 tons each abate the nuisance later on. mine each day of the week, we should be faced with a prospective deficit of £54,000. If the The hon. member was concerned about the volume of coal increased, that deficit might charge for gold passes. The Chief Secre­ b5 converted into a profit, but it is a ques­ tarv's Department accepts the debit for them tion whether long-term orders for coal from and we must have regard to the average use Callide will continue. I think there are made by the members concerned. Apparentlv reasonable prospects that they will and will the hon. member for Maree does not use his 1310 Supply, [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. pass at all, whereas other hon. members month after month the "Courier-Mail" pub­ perhaps get more of the monetary value of lishes big articles rehashing all the promises them-one· cancels out the other and we get made over the years, and, what is more, pre­ an average. The hon. member for Keppel sents them as news. I feel that the Minister and other northern hon. members are regular has trod a little on the corns of the Premier travellers up and down the coast and it is in thi& respect. likely that they get a considerable monetary saving out of their Parliamentary passes. The Minister took office at a very difficult They travel more extensively than some other time. Every hon. member and every member hon. members. At first I thought that the ·of the public will acknowledge quite freely hon. member desired a refund of the cost of that the equipment then being used by his his pass but he was good enough to say that department was in a tragic state of disrepair. that was not his point at all. I can only That was largely due to the war, when all satisfy his curiosity by saying that the fact the locomotives and rolling-stock were over­ that he does not use his pass is offset by worked. To a very great extent the respon­ the fact that other hon. members make exten· sibility for the present state of disrepair of sive use of theirs. the rolling-stock mi:lsu be laid at the door of the previous administration because our equip­ The hon. member went on to refer to the ment should not have been allowed to get into lack of proper lavatory accommodation on such a state of disrepair as it was in when war trains and I must confess that this is a broke out. Had it been in a good state of problem, especially on long-distance trains. repair the task imposed on the department The conveniences supplied are likely to would have been much less in the war years develop a smell that is objectionable to than it was. travellers, and I know that from my own personal experience, but frequent instructions The hon. member for Bremer was surprised are sent out to the attendants to :flush the that some hon. members on this side of the lavatories at the various stations. Mr. Hall Chamber paid a tribute< to the work of the inquired into this question while he was in department. I would refer the hon. member England and he brought back some ideas that to a speech I made some years ago, when I we are carrying out now. The water :flushing referred to the amazingly good contribution system will have a better type of clearance made by the Queensland railways to Q•IeLns• than we have now and that will abate the land's war effort·. I intend to repeat that undoubted smell that develops on long· tribute. It is the duty of the Opposition to distance trains. It is not very pleasant for give credit where credit is due. Not only travellers who are in close proximity to a had the railways to carry the State's .traffic lavatory. I can assure the hon. member that during the war years but they had the added the problem is being looked into and I hope burden of traffic from New South Wales, as time goes on to be able to make progres­ Victoria, South Australia and even Western sive improvements. Australia. We know, too, that Queensland was used as a base and jumping-off ground The hon. member for Kennedy dealt with for operations in New Guinea and the islands the fantastic claims of hon. members opposite. northward. They had the task, too, of carry­ All I want to say is that I commend the hon. ing a large amount of equipment for the member on his research into the amount .&mericans. When you consider all this, you required to give effect to all their suggestions. must realise that their contribution was a very The hon. member for Bremer had one fine one. I should be the last to omit to make or two suggestions to make. I can tell him reference to it. I had an opportunity of that we will examine his suggestions and do comparing the work of the Queensland rail­ what we can to help to give a better rail ways with that of railway systems overseas service to the people he represents. dming the very difficult period of the war and I can therefore speak with some measure There is nothing further that I wish to of authority. But the war has now been over say at this stage but later on I may have for four years and there is still very little occasion to reply to some of. the other points improvement in the equipment of the depart­ that may be raised during the debate. ment. Insufficient progress has been made in those four years. I am looking to the time M:r. MORRJ,§ (Enoggera) (3.45 p.m.): when we shall see real improvement and pro­ For P!actical purposes, no department plays a gress in our traffic equipment. It is long more Important role or is of more vital impor­ overdue. tance to the progress of the State than the Department of Railways. I want to congratu­ I was very disappointed when the Mii•ister late the Premier on having selected 1nch a replied to the hon. members who ll2d c

In the suburban areas the railways are sub­ leaving Brisbane on Friday night and return­ ject to great competition from Council busses, ing again on Tuesday morning. I know there­ private busses, and the trams. If we are to fore what I am talking about. resist this competition we must set about ~gain, the hon. member for Aubigny is not pleasing the travelling public so as to attract tellmg the truth when he says that our mail them to the railway service and not utterly trains are always late. I am fully conversant disregard their needs. It is our duty to with what I am talking about. As I have encourage the people to use the railways and already stated, I travel between Brisbane and so help the railways to compete with other Rocikhampton every week-ejnd. That mail forms of transport. All departments should co-operate, with this one common aim. They train has arrived in Rockhampton on time on should work together in harmony, each seeking almost every occasion on which I have travelled to attract passenger traffic to the railway by it. I admit that some trains are late system. because of accidents, but accidents happen to both motor-cars and aeroplanes as well. Noth­ I do not say that the railways should ing is said about that fact. Is anything said always show a profit but if they are properly when the hon. member's car becomes bogged managed they can show some measure of and remains bogged for a few hours~ No, but profit, some balance in their favour year by he feels that he is competent to criticise a year. The present Minister has infused new Labour Government because one of their mail life into the department. He has adopted a trains happens to be late occasionally. When plan of modernisation and he is always willing we consider the volume of traffic, it is beyond to consider any proposals submitted to him. my comprehension how trains arrive at their But let him not lose sight of the little things. Of course, favourable consideration of small destination on time as often as they do. That needs will not of itself be sufficient to meet is particular-ly surprising when we realise competition from other transport systems· we that Queensland has only a single line. In must look at the bigger things, too. Bu't if view of that fact, they do a magnificent job. we attend to the little needs and comforts we Hon. members opposite complain of the can ~o much to improve the railway passenger poor speed of our trains. It is easy to service. We must concentrate on feeder ser­ criticise but it is difficult t-o support criticism vices, on co-ordinated services, because it is by facts. I will submit some facts that wiU only in this way that we can compete with disprove that criticism. I will give the mile­ outside forms of transport. age between certain points on the Brisbane­ Townsville line, the time actually occupied by ~r. IN GRAM (Keppel) ( 4.13 p.m.) : I the mail trains between those points, and the desue to congratulate the Minister on the average speed. They are-- magnificent job he is doing in this important transport department. He is a young man Average one who has brought energy and enthusiasn:{ Miles to its administration. Miles. Time. Per Hour. I have always had the greatest courtesy ------11------from every man in the railway service, from hrs. mins. the top to the bottom. The Queensland rail­ Townsville-Bowen .. 119 4 20 25;!; Bowen-Proserpine .. 40 1 30 26* ways :;tre giving a .splendid service, despit-e the :Proserpine--Bloomsbury 22 0 50 26?t gruellmg the engmes and rolling stock got Bloomsbury-Mackay 53t 1 55 28 during the war period. Mackay-St. Lawrence .. 94t 3 15 29 St. Lawrence-Rockhamptor. 107 3 46 281; Much criticism has been levelled at the Rockhampton-Gladstone 68t 2 25 28! department, notably by the hon. member for Gladstone-Bundaberg not 3 52 28t Bundaberg-Baddow 52± 1 50 28t Aubigny. He has criticised the department Baddow-Gympie .. 58 2 15 25! in connection with the movement of stock Gympie-Roma Street 106t 4 31 23} trains but taking all things into consideration I am satisfied that he knows very little about Yet we have the Opposition squealing about the movement of stock trains in other States. We know that he and his party have engaged our slow trains! The speed of our trains is in this criticism purely for party political equal to the speed of trains in most other purposes. Let him listen to the information States. I am about to give showing the speed of The other day the hon. member for Hamil­ stock trains in Queensland compared with ton mentioned the time taken by a train those in New South Wales. travelling from Rockhampton to Theodore. The overall speed of New South Wales stock He does not know one-qua1'ter of that service that I do. He might· have made one trip to tr~ins is 14.8 ~les an hour as against 15.7 miles an hour m Queensland. Take our mail that area on a goods train. Mixed trainS' trains. The hon. member for Aubigny said are far slo1ver than passenger or mail trains. that they were nearly always late and I inter­ That is because mixed trains stop at every Jected that that was not so, particularly on the little siding and st·ation to let down passengers northern run. He accused me then of travel­ and unload goods for the benefit of the ling by air. That is a deliberate falsehood. people living in the area. This GoYernment I went b:l_' air from Brisbane to Rockhampton cater for the people of the outback, which at 10 mmutes past 6 o'clock one morning is something the Tory Government never did. ~o enable me to attend a special function Did the hon. member ever travel by the Friday m Y eppoon. There is not one hon. member train from Rockhampton to Theodore, for who travels on the northern mail train more example~ than I do. I travel by it every week-end, lUr. H. B. Taylor: It was not running. !314 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. INGRAM: Yes, it was. The hon. That is a vast difference in favour of Queens­ member cannot put me right there. I will take land; yet hon. members opposite say we are the first section. The passenger train from not doing justice to the man on the land. Mount Morgan to Theodore reaches Wowan Take sheep, the figures are- in 1 hour 5 minutes, a distance of thirty Per head miles. Does the hon. member call that slow~ per 600 miles. Does the hon. member want the railways to s. d. run goods trains express, without delivering South Australia 4 6 ,goods for the benefit of the people~ Western Australia 4 3 Much was said about the carriages that Victoria 4 2 the people have to travel in. I have travelled Queensland . . 4 1 in sitting cars and sleeping cars for many Where is greater consideration shown by any years, and I have no complaint about their Government~ When compared with Queens­ deanliness and the civility and attention of land the other States are not in the picture. the officers of the department. I remember during the time of the old Tory Government Now take the treatment accorded to workers -nearly 40 years ago-I worked on construc­ throughout the State in getting to and from tion works and I saw forms put in box wagons their work at reasonable cost. From Rock­ for people to sit on. On some of those lines hampton to Mt. Morgan, a distance of 23 during the old Tory Government period it miles, the workers are carried to and from took 5 hours 10 minutes to run 52 miles. work at the rate of Ss. 2d. a week. No I am sorry the hon. member for Isis is greater concession was given to any workers not here this evening. He said that the throughout the world than the Labour Govern· Government should give every consideration ment have given to the workers of Queensland. to the railway men. I point out that no Gov­ When travellill(g on the Northern mail >Crnment have given the railway men more recently I was informed by a passenger w~o sympathetic consideration than the present had arrived recently from Melbourne, that tne Government of Queensland. I am surprised Queensland railway system is superior ~n that hon. members opposite should speak as carriages, cleanliness, and speed to the rail­ they do; they should hang their heads in way systems of the other Commonwealth ,shame, after what they did to the railway States. Notwithstanding this Opp~sition men in 1929-32. What did they do to them~ members criticise and condemn the railways 'They sacked hundreds of them. They took in all directions. The railways are doing a cleaners and clerks out of their positions and magnificent job in catering for the travelling put them on the lengths, and sacked perma­ public. For instance, refreshment rooms are nent lengthsmen. They even sent officials of being enlarged for the convenience and corn· organisations who voted Labour out to the fort of train passengers. Notwithstanding never-never, away from their wives and this, hon. members rise in their places and families. In spite of their record, members criticise the refreshment-rooms administration. opposite have the temerity to say that we By their remarks they show that they do not should give more consideration to the rail­ travel by train at all but by aeroplane. way men. All the railway men got in their Grades .and curves are being improved to day was five days a fortnight. That is how allow of greater speed of trains. On the the Tory Government treated the workers. section from Bundaberg to Rockhampton 'Then they have the audacity to get up here heavier rails are being laid. This will give and say we should give them every considera­ greater comfort to passengers. . Yet t~e tion. The railway men are getting every con­ Opposition say we are doing nothmg. This sideration and will continue to receive every Government are doing everything possible for consideration from this generous Labour Gov­ the benefit of everybody concerned. They are ernment. not like the Tory Governments of Queensland Our railways are a huge undertaking. We of the past. have a greater length of railways in Queens­ It is not my intention to delay this vote. I land than there is in any other State, and merely rose to contradict certain statements the Government are doing a greater service made by some members of the Opposition. for the people than the Government of any I repeat that I congratulate the Minister and other State. Just let us see what the Gov­ his staff, the Commissioner and his staff, and ernment have done for the grazier and the railway employees in general throughout ~he farmer. They have reduced the rates on State for the magnificent job they are domg starving stock and fodder. No Government for all concerned. have given greater help and consideration. to those people than this Government. The Mr. PLUNKETT (Albert) (4.28 p.m.): It . freights on livestock are lo·wer than in any is surprising to hear the differences of opinion other State in the Commonwealth. Can the exprBssed by hon. members who have spoken hon. member for Aubigny deny that~ I will on this very important question of railway quote the figures, and I challenge the hon. administration. We have heard comparisons member to refute them. They are as of distances, fares, and other things. There follows:- Fat Cattle per head have been comparisons between railway trans­ per 600 miles. port and other forms of transport. These are s. d. made for the purposes of political propa­ New South Wales 49 4 ganda. Of course one party blames the other. South Australia 56 2 I do not intend to do that at all, the railway Western Australia 41 11 system is so very important, and we have Victoria 41 10 heard the Minister admit that improvements Queensland 35 11 can be made. Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1315

I am not at all happy about one or two Once built, a railway stands for a long time ; aspects of the railway organisation. Taking it is not here today and gone tomorrow. stock of our railway system, the length of Therefore, in building railways, some plan line and the vast area it covers, one realises must be evolved to ascertain what development the huge organisation necessary to control is likely to occur as a result and what service everything in connection with it. Notwith­ they will render to the people. Only last standing the fact that it is a monopoly, it week we passed a Bill authorising the dupli­ requires the services of good officials. The cation of the railway line to Kuraby, and Railway Department plays an important part it is the intention later on to ele-ctrify that in the development of the State, and so long section of the line. Why stop at Kurabyf as we get efficiency we should not worry very Sooner or later the electrification will be much about whether it is a paying concern. extended to Southport, and the future develop­ I was surprised today that the Minister ment of that part of the State should be should spend so much time replying to Press envisaged when initiating such schemes, even criticism of the railways. I do not think though it is necessary to complete only one he did himself any good by it. So long as section at a time. he is satisfied that he and his department are doing the right thing, why should he chase In a few years' time, when building controls these people who criticise him~ are removed, that part of Queensland will develop to such an extent that instead of ~Ir. Moore: Why let them get away having three trains to the South Coast at the with it~ week-end, we shall need 30. When making Mr. Sparkes: If he is not responsible, provision for electrification, we must consider why worry about it~ its capabilitieS'. Mr. lUoore: Why let them get away We are rather one-eyed when we consider with it~ The Press ha& an influence on public the economic position of the railways in opinion. Queensland. Where people are charged for travelling, there will always be complaints. lUr. PLUNKETT: The fact that the There will always be somebody who will make Secretary for Mines says the Press is not tell­ a noise about the lack of efficiency in the ing the truth or some other silly thing, is railways. However, I should like to draw beside the point. I have nothing to say for the Minister 's attention to the fact that the the Press at all, except that I do think the Government have now full control of all trans­ Government get a fair crack of the whip from port in Queensland. I was rather amused at it. the suggestion t·hat when the Brisbane The Miniil'ter for Transport has shown by his ''Courier'' and the ''Daily Mail'' w,ere speeches here that he has a good grip of the separate entities and competed against one workings of his department, but in my opinion another they each published logical leaders, he spoils it all by the way in which he replies but once they merged into a single morning to any query put to him. He calls it criticism. paper there was a lack of balance and the I suggest that in his own interests he should quality of the leaders deteriorated. Exactly adopt a different attitude. I have a high the same thing might occur in Queensland's regard for his ability and capacity, but he transport; wher'e the Gov'elrnment .have a fails on that one point. I take it that monopoly. politics will be his career and I suggest· that the best thing that could happen to him would The Government say t·hat everything is all be for him to spend ten years in opposition. right with the railways, although the Minister He would emerge from that experience a has admitted that there is plenty of room for statesman. improvement, a statement _with which we all agree. Once we stop improving the railways, We all know that railways are essential to we shall lose the benefit of the whole system. the expansion and development of the country, Whilst the Government have a monopoly of but they must be built at places where they transport and can compel people to do certain will give best service to the people. This is things, they must exercise their control a great primary-producing State deriving its efficiently. If the· department is conducted wealth from the land, and it suffers periodi­ efficiently it will be possible to expand and cally from flood and drought, from drought develop the railways and thus give greater in particular, and I have often thought that encouragement to the people, bring about for the benefit of the State we should evolve increased settlement, and generally develop some system of taking part of the control of the country, which in my opinion is the main railways out of the hands of the Government. purpose of a railway system. We have lost millions of pounds through flood and drought and I have often wondered The inference to be drawn from the debate whether anyone has ever given thought to the is that hundreds of miles of railways are to construction of railways for the purpose of be constructed at a cost of about £10,000,000. avoiding t·hose losses. People will say, ''It I want to know what we have been doing in will not pay to run a railway line out there.'' the past 8 or 10 years. If the railways are so That would be quite true if the railways were vital today and equipment is urgently needed, supposed to be a paying enterprise, but the why wat~ it necessary to wait and place such development of this country requires railways, large orders for rolling-stock in the short and in order to prevent huge national losses, pniod of 12 months~ Why was it necessary particularly those caused by droughts, they to place some of the orders overseas~ To keep must be built in certain areas. a transport system in a reasonable state of 1316 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. efficiency it is necessary to overhaul rolling­ have been granted to scholars at Christmas­ stock from time to time but it would appear time, and concessions have been granted to that now we cannot do anything in our own sporting bodies. This being so, it is obvious ceountry, that we must go abroad for our that it would be unfair to judge the Railway requirements. Why can we not malte them Department on whether it makes a profit or here~ I should like to know. a loss. It has never been my practice to c~iticise Furthermore, the Department at all times the railway system without just cause. I know gives special concessions on freights on cer­ that the facilities are widespread, that they tain commodities of great importance to the ccv<>r a vast area and employ many people. economy of the State. For example, for years If there is a lag somewhere-and there always will be a lag-it cannot be helped but the the department has been carrying fertiliser ::>ystem must be kept as efficient as possible. for the benefit of our primary industries at a "l'llere can be no justification for believing that low rate of freight. I can remember the because it virtually has a monopoly ·of some repo;rt presented to Parliament in 1945. by the traffic, we can say to the public who patronise then Commissioner for Railways. It disclosed it, ''If you do not like to pay the price you that the freight on fertiliser was actually can go elsewhere and if you do not like to lower in the year ending June, 1945, than it travel by a certain train you can stay at was if my memory serves me correctly, as home.'' I want to emphasise that view. We far 'tack as 1914, in spite of the fact that must give railway travellers' as much com­ costs in all other directions had risen. fort as we possibly can, we must conduct the system efficiently and not make the costs too The view I expOunded in Parliamer,tt in high. I do not criticise the railways for the 1945 is the view I still hold. The Railway mere sake of criticising them, nor do I think Department .should not be expected to bear that any defects can be justified merely by the losses that are eaused by the granting referring to the splendid job they did during of concessions. When a concession is given, the war. I appreciate all that they did, but whether it is given to a primary producer, that time is gone and today we :find ourselves or to a sporting body, or to school-children, in the position th'lt we l1ave not enough or to industry, it should be paid out of the €ngines and not enough rolling-stock gener­ Treasury, and not borne by the Railway ally. 'l'here must nave been bad management Department itself. _If that was don:, it ~ould be possible to obtam a true :financial :~;ncture in the past to allow that slate of affairs to of our railways. And, let me add, until such oecur. I do not know where the trouble lies a state of affairs is reached, we shall never but rerhaps the Minister crm tell us. have any right to criticise the Railway Depart­ ment on the basis of whether it makes a profit Mr. PATERSON (Bowen) (4.44 p.m.): With other hon. members I agree that the or not. If such a system of bookkeeping was Railway De

I think it is necessary to state this, because to entitle him to a certain period of long­ there is a widespread belief that the depart­ service leave, that leave should be his as a ment is an uneconomic department. Further­ right in exactly the L . way as the wages more, .-this has a devastating effect, in my he earns. If his conduct was good for that opinion, on the condition of railway employees period, surely he is entitled to that long· because frequently some of the higher officials service leave as a right, and no-one should be in the railway, in their desire to show success able to take it from him no matter what -no-one can blame them for that; it is a very happens. If he is convicted before a court commendable characteristic to have-in their he is punished. Then he is punished by the de'lire to show that their work has been department, yet it is a fundamental principle successful, tend to operate the economy of the law of vur land that no man shall be principle too much. In my opinion, these punished twice for the same offence. If an officials are forced into that position because employee is already punished, why should he the Railway Department is carrying so many receive extra punishment from the depart­ financial burdens that it is not able to show ment~ the huge profits that private enterprise can I will give a couple of illustrations to show show. The higher officials tend to develop a what I mean. A railway man in the Northern kind of inferiority complex and, feeling that Division of the railways was charged on one they must show better results, tend to oppose occasion-I forget the actual offence but it claims by the employees, no matter how just. involved the stealing of timber; I forget That is the wrong way to approach the whether he ·was charged with stealing or problem. receiving. He was acquitted by the jury, but subsequently he was charged by the Railway :Mr. Kerr: In what way do they show Department with negligence for not obtaining their inferiority complexW a receipt from the consignee at the time the lllr. PATERSON: Almost every time the timber was delivered. He was found guilty railway men go to the Industrial Court for an and dismissed from the railways. Remember: increase in wages or better conditions, the he had already been acquitted by the Criminal representative of the department says that, Court in North Queensland but was then if the unions' request·s are granted, it will charged with negligence by the Railway mean big expense; he says that the Depart­ Department and was sacked. ment has to meet a big interest bill and so on, But the department was not satisfied with and that the Department cannot meet all these that; it deprived him of his long-service costs unless fares and freights are increased. leave, notwithstanding that, apart from that I believe that the Department would not have particular breach of duty, he had never done to take up this attitude if it were not com­ anything to forfeit his right to his long­ pelled to bear these burdens, which I believe service leave. What would be said by mem­ should be borne by the whole Government, that bers of the Government if private enterprise is, the Treasury. They should be a direct adopted that attitude~ What would be said charge on Consolidated Revenue. if tomorrow an employee of one , of the pri· vate banks who was entitled to certain rights :Mr. Kerr: Quite right. because he had been in the service of the :Mr. Duggan: What is the difference! bank for a number of years was sacked and :Mr. P ATERSON: It would not make any deprived of those rights because he com­ difference as far as the amount in the pocket mitted an offence while on duty or even when of the Government is concerned, but it makes he was not on duty1 a big difference in the eyes of the public and And I add the words "when he was not in the methods adopted by the officials of the on duty,'' because the second case I quote department. concerns a man whose offence was committed There is, however, one aspect of railway while off duty. This man was charged in :administration that I think merits criticism, Bowen with being drunk and using obscene one that I feel amounts to what might best be language-while off duty. He was not on described as a monstrous injustice to railway­ duty, he had :finished his work. He was con· men. Railway employees are entitled to victed by the Court and was sentenced to 14 eertain long-service leave. If they have been days' imprisonment. Then he was dismissed in the department for 15 years they are by the department and that meant that the entitled to a certain amount; if they have Commissioner was able to deprive him of the been in for so many more years, .to an extra whole of his long-service leave. Again, I amount, and so on; but, unfortunately, the say, what would be said if that happened in Commissioner has this right: if a railway man private enterprise1 Surely to goodness, if a eommits an offence or is guilty of negligence man does his job while at work and no fault in the railway or even if he commits some can be found with him, he should not be offence outside the railway while off duty, the punished by his employer for some offence Commissioner is entitled to dismiss him: and that he is alleged to have committed and he if he does dismiss an employee he can, if he is convicted of having committed while off wishes-and, as far as I know, he does in duty! most cases-deprive that employee of his long· :Mr. Sparkes: The Government should :service leave. This, as I have said, is a set an example in that respect. monstrous injustice. :Mr. P ATERSON: Certainly. I might I take this view: if an employee of the say that thanks to the A.R.U., the Commis· Railway Department has been in the railways sioner, and the Minister, the man was :fm 15 years or whatever period is necessary re-employed in the railways but he was not 1949-2T 1318 Supply. (ASSEMBLY.} Supply.

put back to his original position. He had to not support the sacking of a man simply suffer some loss. But my point is that ill because he had committed one offence, even should never have been left to the discretion though it was while he was on the job. I of the Commissioner or Minister whether he should consider all the circumstances of that got his job back. He should never have been offence and particularly the whole of his sacked,, Had another Minister been in charge, conduct as an employee. If I found that this man might not have got back into the he had been in the Railway Department, railways. We cannot guarantee that we shall whether as a'n engine-driv,er .or in some always have a Minister with the character other capacity, and he had given good service, of the present Minister who apparently then, even though on one occasion he was realised that the punishment was too severe found carrying away, for example, two or and, therefore, agreed that the man should three pounds of potatoes, I do not think that be allowed to get back into the railways. Sup­ he should be sacked, even though it was posing that next year we have a different found that he was stealing the potatoes from Minister, the same regulation may be rigidly the Railway Department. I agree that he enforced. I therefore, say that regulation should be reprimanded or even fined. in its present form should be abolished. Mr. Lnckins: He should be punished. The Minister in this particular case thought the punishment was too great, and I think lUr. PATERSON: Yes, but surely it is that in his own heart he feels that the regu­ enough to fine him~ The law lays down lation itself is too drastic. Whatever may certain punishments. It provides that if a be said for a regulation that gives the Com­ man goes before a magistrate and is found missioner the right, under certain circum­ guilty, there is a certain maximum punish­ stances, to sack a man for committing an ment but if he goes before a judge and offence while on duty, surely nothing can be jury and is convicted of stealing the said to justify a regulation that gives him maximum is three years. Yet frequently the the power to sack a man for committing an judge lets a man out on a bond for his first offence while off duty, unless it can be shown offence because he wants• to give him an that the nature of the Act that constitutes opportunity to rehabilitate himself. But, can the offence is such that it would be impos­ it be said that the railway employee is given sible to employ him with safety agaiu in the an opportunity to rehabilitate himself, if he Railway Department. is S'acked because he has commited an offence~ If it is found that he commits the Mr. Power: What if he breaks into offence again and again even after he has a store wh1le off duty~ been reprimanded, then a different state of Mr. P ATERSON: As I have said, unless affairs arises, but apparently the Commis­ it can be shown that the nature of the act sioner feels-and I am not speaking about that constitutes the offence is such that it this· Commissioner only but of all Commis­ would be unsafe to employ him again as a sioners-that he must dismiss him. railway man. No-one, surely, would suggest, Apparently it has been the practice and for instance, that a clerk who is drunk off custom over the years that an employee duty and uses obscene language renders him­ should be dismissed simply because he com­ self less efficient or less effective as a rail­ mits an offence. If my memory serves me way man while on duty! No-one can reason­ correctly, the regulation states that if a man ably suggest that for a single moment. is convicted of an indictable offence-one for which he is convicted before a judge and Further we must remember this: a rail­ jury-he has to be dismcissed. Apparently way man may have devoted the greater part the Commissioner has a discretion when of his working life to the Railway Depart­ dealing with the man who is convicted of a ment. This renders him much less capable non~indictable offence-one in respect of of going out into life and obtaining a suit­ which he may be dealt with by a magistrate. able job. He has become accustomed to a particular type of job. He has trained him­ :Itlr. Dnggan: In the case of a non­ self and improved himself in that particular indictable offence the Commissioner very job. And we must remember that there is rarely exercises his prerogatiYe. only one railway system in this State. There­ Mr. P ATERSON: But in the case I fore, when an employee is sacked, he and his mentioned, that of a man who was convicted family are placed in a very difficult position. of drunkenness and obscene language, he did Yet he can be sacked, even if he commits an use it; and my argument is• that in such a offence while off duty. case he should have that discretion. I trust tlhe 1\ILlnister will give ,serilous Furthermore, I should like the Minister to cons

The moment they do that the offence is an war years, of course, there was 3: lack .of indictable offence. But if a man is charged development and in the course of t1me, w1tb with stealing and he says, ''I do not want a the advance in roa:d transport, there has been judge and jury;. I will let ;ro~, Mr. a general neglect in the ra:ilway system. Magistrate, deal mth the case,'' 1t 1s then It is very fi~ti:ng that this portfolio ~h?uld a non-indictable offence. In other words, the have been allotted to the present Mm1s.ter mere fact that the conviction is for an because he has the ability to do som~thmg indictable offence does not make the offence useful in putting our railwa:y system m the more serious. condition that is necessary if it is to do what I, therefore, sugg.est that the Min~ster give is required of it. He has a mighty job to serious consideratwn to amendmg the do, but I think he has the necessary courage, regulation that gives the Commissioner ti:is initiative, and enterprise to do it. power of dismissal and that he regard rall­ The Minister has told us of many things way men in much the same way as e~ployees that he, as the head of this department, hopes are regarded in all other occupations. I to do-many big things that will cost th~s suggest that he consider the qu~stion from State millions of pounds to finance. That 1s the point of view of one who reahses that he a very good thing in itself, but in ~y humble is indeed a unique man who goes through opinion many things can be done m .a small life without making one slip or without way without very much expense, to Improve having· a single failing. In ~ther. wr;rds, I the 'general efficiency of our railway.s. The ask him to alter the regulatwn lll such a Minister should not neglect the details, and way that it ceases• to be a cast-iron provision we know there is a good deal of ne!\lect in that says that if a man is found guilty of minor matters that is having a detenmental an indictable offence he must not only be effect generally on ra:ilway business. I sacked but he must also lose the long-service believe the Minister should call for a: report leave that he has earned by his own good from his senior officers throughout the State work in his period of service up to that about small improvements that could be time. I urge the Minister to give serious made easily and cheaply a:nd that would ccnsideration to this question. result in greater efficiency and better service Another matter I should like to mention to the community. It will take many years is that throughout this State one can to do the big things that he enumerateil. and frequently see that coal is being carried not in the interim we should give proper a:tte:n­ in coal-trucks but in those long, oblong tion to detail and do some of the small things wagons that I think are called H wagons. that will lead to an improvement in railway Those wagons have to be unloaded by the service without heavy cost. old, primitive method of shovelling. The Many of the things that he mentioned that Minister has said that the Government are were to be done had to do with the main to spend huge sums of money in bringing lines and to the city railway transport ser­ the rolling-stock up to date, and I am very vices but the branch lines should be regarded pleased to hear it; it is high time it was as of major importance too. It is said again done. Coal is an important commodity in the and again that many branch lines do :not pay. community, and every penny of expense un­ I do not understand much about assessing the necessarily incurred in handling it should be earning capacity of branch lines and their saved. The Main Roads Commission would effect on the finances of the State, but I do consider it out of date on a big job to have not think tha:t iustice is always done to them, to load or unload gravel by the old primitive because in addition to transporting goods method of shovelling. Even on small jobs and passengers over those lines themselves it often has some method of tipping the they act as feeders to ma:i:n lines and thus gravel onto a platform so that it can be con­ help to swell the traffic on them very con­ veyed down a chute into a truck. The Rail­ siderably. way Department has provided that method at Most of the passenger traffic on the branch Mayne Junction, where a large coal-loading lines is by rail-motors, especially on the ramp has been built. In spite of this, many Darling Downs. There are not many scheduled of the wagons there have to be unloaded by steam trains. The bulk of the wheat and hand because of the shortage of coal wagons. wool is carried by special trains. Most of the I therefore, am very pleased to know that rail-motors on the Downs are far from the' Government intend to spend huge sums sa:tisfactory. Indeed, I believe they outlived of money in the reha:bilitation of our railway their usefulness years ago and thev should rolling-stock. Until that is done, the Ra:ilway now be scrapped and replaced. . I know it is Department will be working under a heavy difficult perhaps to. get .:new ;a1l-motor~ but handicap. the attention to b1g thmgs m the ra1lway Mr. MciNTYRE (Cunningha:m) (5.7 service should not overshadow the need for p.m.) : I believe that the railways have a improving the transport of passengers and very important part to play in the transport goods on the branch lines. of the State, irrespective of the development Mention was made of return tickets and that has taken place in motor transport. the Minister said that he thought I was :not Therefore, this is a very important vote. in favour of the issue of retmn tickets on I think it will be admitted, even by the branch lines. I cannot agree with him. Minister himself, that there has been a good Mr. Duggan: I am sorry if I gave tha:t deal of :neglect in keeping our rolling-stock impression. a:nd plant generally up to the high standard of efficiency that is necessary if the depart­ Mr. MciNTYRE: I believe in decentrali­ ment is to do the job properly. During the sation. We should attend to the :needs of 1320 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the small country towns. In my area the road transport is far more satisfactory. A absence of return tickets reacts very load of cheese can be dispatched in the cool adversely against the people. If we had a of the evening by road and because it thus modern rail-motor system, with return tickets, travels through the cooler temperatures of they could compete very successfully with the the night can be delivered at Brisbane in the motor transport in those areas, particularly morning in reasonable condition, but because at the present time, with the high price of of our desire to remain loyal to the railways motor vehicles and petrol and the cost of we continue to use them. Today there is a running generally. People come by rail­ general drift in the industry towards road motor from places on branch lines to Mill­ transport and unless something is done ~o merran, Cecil Plains, Cooyar and other places give the industry better service, which IS to Toowoomba for the day to shop. They possible, much of the cheese will be trans­ have only a limited time in the town in ported by road. which to attend to essential business and because they have not got return tickets in The cheese mainly is drawn from factories their pockets they must go to the railway on our branch lines and because of the slow station perhaps half an hour before the service of those lines delay often occurs. The scheduled time of departure of the rail-motor policy of the factories is to have insulated in order to get them. They have complained wagons packed with ice, the packi:r:g of the bitterly to me and have said that if they wagons being usually done at Bnsbane or had the return halves of the tickets in their Toowoomba when the truck is empty. Delay pockets they could continue to shop until in transport results in waste of the money the last minute. As a matter of fact, it is a expended in packing the trucks with ice and common practice for rail-motors to pick them the result aimed at is not achieved. Very up in the side streets, at street corners. If often cheese loaded on Wednesday does not they had the· right to buy return tickets, even reach' the point of unloading until Friday ut no reduction in eost on two single fares, morning, and as a result the object aimed at that would be an advantage to them because in packing it with ice is lost. they would be able to buy return tickets The type of wagon that is being use~ is before they left home, they would have the very unsatisfactory. I suggest that the time return halves in their pockets while they were is long overdue when a new type of wagon shopping and could use every minute of their should be designed 7nd built for this pur­ time in town. That is important. Very often pose. I suggest that it may be possible to people with appointments with the dentist or establish some automatic type of refrigera­ doctor are compelled to break them because tion. The Minister suggested air-conditioned they become concerned about the queue at passenger transport, and I think it would be the ticket window. In Brisbane they can get just as practical and logical to supply auto­ these return tickets. The Minister should matic refrigeration wagons for the transport look into that aspect of the matter again, of cheese. There is much concern in the particularly as it affects our branch lines in industry today because of the conditions that rural and semi-rural areas. obtain in the transport of this very perish­ I wish to say something about the transport able commodity and I assure the Minister of food on these branch lines. The carriage and his department that he will receive the of the people's food is just as important as full co-operation of the industry in any the carriage of the people themselves. Much improvement that he sets out to effect. has been said about the transport of cattle, There is another aspect of transport in the pigs, wool and wheat. They have their cheese industry that is very important. problems, but the food I wish to touch on Because of the case position and the condi­ are the perishables. They should always have tions prevailing on the market side it is priority. I propose to confine my remarks to necessary, and it is a common practice, to the cheese industry and the difficulties of its send much loose cheese by train; and again transport to market. The transport of cheese and again we have had well-founded com­ from the point of manufacture to the cold plaints from the industry about the condition store in the city is very important. In fact, of the wagons supplied. These wagons had it is part of the manufacturing process. A been used for other purposes and were sent cheese is not regarded as being fully manu­ out dirty for the transport of loose cheese. factured until it is ready for the consumer's That causes great concern to the industry. table. Refrigeration is becoming very com­ This cheese is an article of food and great mon in cheese factories but notwithstanding care should be exercised to supply the indus­ that fact it is not possible to fully mature try with wagons that are in a :fit condition cheese at the factory. We have trouble in for transporting it. I believe the depart­ the transport of cheese by rail in the hot ment has sufficient man-power to give atten­ summer months from the factory to the stores tion to this aspect of the industry, and I in Brisbane and transport is regarded by the trust due regard will be given to it. The industry as one of its weak links. Because industry wants to support the railways and of unsatisfactory transport conditions the I trust the Minister and his officers will in manufacturers of cheese suffer from a good future endeavour to meet the industry in deal of re-grading. these important matters. The Secretary for Agriculture and Stock I wish the Minister well during his period has time and again emphasised the impor­ in office. I believe he has the ability and tance of quality in cheese manufacture and capacity to bring about much improvement factories are naturally very jealous of the in the railways and perhaps revolutionise the quality of their cheese. The industry is very whole system. I trust that he will direct his anxious to remain loyal to the railways but best endeavours to that most important part Supply. [3 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1321 of our State known as the rural areas, which pete on the world's markets. Particularly are served in the main by branch lines from ~oes this apply to the export market. For the various centres. mstance, take sugar. If the administration decided that the railways must pay and that Mr. KEYATTA (Townsville) (5.24 those who use them must pay freight and p.m.) : I desire to add my contribution to passenger rates in accordance with that prin­ the debate on this vote, which was so ably ciple, everybody would be at a disadvan­ submitted by the Minister. I desire to extend ~age. Production and transport costs would my heartiest congratulations to the hon. mcrease to such an extent that a number of gentleman on his overwhelming success in produce.rs and others would have to go out of carrying out his very difficult job as Minister the busmess they are engaged in. The admin­ :for Transport. The difficulties of office this istrat~on. of the railways is so complicated were increased by the war period, but with that It IS necessary to have tapering rates the help of the Commissioner and staff the to ensure that the primary producer can send Minister has accomplished much of which he his products to the market at a cost that is can be proud. He has demonstrated that he within reason. The development of the rail­ is an able administrator and he has won way system in such a way that it services admiration on all sides. I am pleased with eight major ports on the Queensland coast this attitude of the Minister, that no matter was a very important factor in the organi­ how contentious the subject may be, he gives sation for waging the recent war in the Pacific it every consideration. area. This plan has had the effect of develop­ Here too I pay my compliments and ing all parts of the State, which in turn has express my good wishes to the Commissioner brought about decentralisation. One cannot and his staff. The courtesy given by these but maintain that the railway system of officials at all times is to be commended. And Queensland has done an excellent job, par­ this also applies to other employees. ticularly when it is realised that the popula­ tion of the State is a little over a 1,000,000. We realise. that the Railway Department of Moreover, the mileage open to traffic is 6,691, Queensland IS the largest business in the a very great length of line in a vast State State, and probably one of the largest in the with so few people. Commonwealth and calls for able administra­ tion. The railways have played a very effec­ During the course of this debate, we have tive part in giving the State a transport ser­ heard many derogatory remarks applied to vice, in which it gainfully employs approxi­ the railway service, but I am afraid some hon. mately 25,000 persons, but it is also playing members have not taken time to read the a very important role in the development of report of the Commissioner for Railways. Queensland, and we must have due regard to Had they done so, I am sure they would that aspect. realise that the administration is to be com­ Much has been said from time to time to mendec1. the effect that t_he railways should pay their The Commissioner's report points out that own way. This would have very serious the amount appropriated to and expended results to the development of the State and upon the Railway Capital Account at 30 June, its people, particularly the primary producers 1949, was £44,502,826, including depreciation, who, I suppose it can be said, would be the discounts, and flotation charges. It then greatest losers. They would be penalised gives the following comparison of capital for because they must get their products onto the the year 1948-49 with that of the previous market at a cost that will enable them to corn- year- On Unopened Lines and -- On Opened Rolling-stock Total CapitaL Lines. under Construction. £ £ £ To 30th June, 1948 ...... 41,611,087 1,801,518 43,412,605 To 30th June, 1949 ...... 42,056.821 2,446,005 44,502,826 That is very important. If the year's opera­ The expenditure by the department during tions had not been successful, these satis­ the year was £13,770,167, an increase of factory results could not have been achieved. £3,431,029 compared with the previous year. The Commisioner further points out that The Commissioner then gives a table relat­ the financial result for the year ended 30 ing to the expenditure on maintenance, loco­ June, 1949, in comparison with the previous motives, traffic anc1 generally. year was as follows:- Next he deals with train mileage, another factor, and gives the following - 1947-48. 1948-49. interesting table:- £ £ Gross earnings 11,131,924 14,927,153 - 1947-48. 1948-49. Deduct working expenses·.·. 13,770,167 10,339,138 Passenger train miles- Producing a net revenue of 792,786 1,156,986 Steam .. .. 3,587,397 4,152,817 Interest on Capital .. 1,463,873 1,472,599 Rail Moto~· .. .. 1,628,462 1,861,034 Particulars are given also of revenue from Total .. 5,215,859 6,013,851 Mixed train miles· .. 1,939,356 2,181,189 passenger traffic, parcels and miscellaneous Goods train miles .. 7 584,213 9,080,715 traffic, goods traffic, and livestock traffic. There is an appreciable increase there. 14,739,428 .17 ,275. 755 1322 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The revenue per train-mile in 1947-48 was Both :figures for 1948-49 show a decided 15s. Hd., whilst the expenditure per train­ increase on those for 1947-48. In the analysis of revenue, the classifica­ mile was 14s. Old. The figures for 1948-49 tion of outwards revenue for the past two were 17s. 3:l;d. and 15s. ll:l;d. respectively. years is as follows:-

Coaching Traffic. 1947-48. 1948-49. PerCent. £ £ Passengers • . . • • • 2,282,503 2,740,282 20·06 increase Pareels and Miscellaneous •• 978,424 1,167,897 19·37 increase

Under the heading of goods traffic, the On the spending side the following items percentage increases in 1948-49 were as appear- follows:- s. d. Per Salaries and wages 13 10.29 cent. Stores and contingencies 2 2.11 Minerals 63.41 Coal and other fuel 1 3.68 Timber and firewood 33.83 Refreshment Room services 0 5.97 Agricultural produce 75.64 Pay Roll tax .. 0 4.36 Workers' compensation and Wool 16.43 in- juries to persons General merchandise 0 1.88 31.41 Uniforms .. 0 1.11 Live stock .. 14.57 Part of interest on Capital 1 6.60 Those figures show that the railway administration is to be commended. However, £1 0 0 I should like to draw the attention of the Minister to the fact that in 1938-39 approxi­ Mr. Sparkes: You can see from those matelv 100,000 bales of wool passed through figures how costs have been increased by the the port of Townsville. That traffic has now introduction of the 40-hour week. been diverted in other directions, probably to the South. Mr. KEYATTA: We are living in a modern age and the interests of the com­ Mr. Sparkes: 'l'o which area? munity must be considered. There was a time when pastoralists drove in sulkies but Mr. KEYATTA: Probably to Rockhamp­ today they move about in aeroplanes and high­ ton and Brisbane. powered motor-cars. The railways have played a very important part in the development of I have been informed unofficially that the the country. rates operating in 1938-39 were the same as Mr. Sparkes: The figures show how those that operate today, so the fault is not costs have gone up. with the railway administration. I ask the Minister to look into the matter. Townsville Mr. KEYATTA: Costs will rise auto­ would like to have this commodity back. The matically. Townsville Harbour Board is particularly I read with a great deal of interest a para­ anxious to cater for this trade ·and has in fact graph in the reporb emphasising the need for made arrangements for adequate storage and more railway lines. It is highly important port facilities. • that Queensland should have an up-to-date railway system. It is well-known that no There is also in t·he report a comparative country in the world has ever progressed with­ summary of working for the past :five yea.rs out a railway system. which contains the item of interest per train: mile to gross capital from 1944-45 to 1948-49 Some consideration should be given to con­ and shows a decrease of 3:l;d. That is further struction of railways in the North to precede development. This is very necessary as a evidence of excellent administration and service. result of the creation of the North Australia Development Committee. We shall in the Then there is a very interesting statement future have a co-ordinated effort between this showing how the railway pound is earned and State, the Commonwealth Government, the spent. On the earnings side the following Northern Territory Council, and the Western items appear- Australian Government and this committee should consider a proposal to extend the &. d. existing railway from Dajarra to Camooweal Goods and live stock 14 9.16 on to Darwin and thence to Broome and Port Passengers 3 8.06 Hedland. That would be a defence as well Parcels and mails 0 9.96 as a developmental line. It would be an essential service and be a mighty big factor R.efreshment Room Services 0 5.87 in developing and populating that rich area. Rent and miscellaneous 0 2.95 Transport facilities should precede population, because population always follows transport £1 0 0 facilities. I read an article written by a well-known journalist, who is also a scientist, Supply. (3 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1323 who investigated the northern areas of o~ the railway operations. Anyone will appre­ Australia. He thinks that it is a wealthy area Ciate the fact that stocks must have been and its. production could support a large extremely light when the accounts closed this commumty. year. There was not the opportunity for great expenditure; had there been, the rail­ I have discussed rail freights with the way expenditure would have been consider­ Minister, and he told me that the Commis­ ably greater. Had the department been able sioner is looking into the matter. A retired to get materials the sums they cost would officer has been brought back into the depart­ have appe~red in the accounts, consequently ment to review freight rates, particularly in the expenditure would have been considerably northern and northwestern Queensland, to see greater and the deficit would have been much what further benefit can be given to those greater. areas. Probably there will be an increase in the scope of the tapering rates to help in There is no Balance Sheet for the the establishment of industry in the North. railway accounts; I have never seen The products of such an industry could then ?ne. A . f.actor in every undertaking be transported to Brisbane and marketed at IS depreciation but no such thing as depreciation is brought into the accounts ~ompetit~ve pr~ces. At present, if a factory at all; they are all dealt with on a cash basis. IS estabhshed m the centre of population in Brisbane, 80 per cent. of its output can find If you were to put these accounts on a busi­ a ready market in the capital and the remain­ nesslike footing, like any business under­ taking, and you brought in depreciation every ing 2~ ~er cent. can be exported at a profit. If a Similar factory was created in one of our year the position would be very different from northern cities and its output was on a' similar what it appears to be. Assume that the assets are worth £40,000,000 and for depre­ scale, only 20 per cent. of it could be absorbed ciation you deduct 5 per cent.-the ordin­ in that city, and 80 per cent. of it would ary percentage that is taken-that would be hav:e to be exported to Brisbane. At existing anotheT £2,000,000. That is not actually out­ freight rates competition would soon force going but represents the depreciation of the that industry out of production. I hope assets. It would give a true picture of the something will come out of my representa­ value of that asset when the accounts were tions. to the Minis~er and that he may be able to give us some mformation when replying. closed. If you were to take all these things into (Time expired.) consideration-the stocks you have not been able to buy and the depreciation-you would lUr. K~RR (Oxley) (5.49 p.m.): The have, in order to make the railway accounts more one hstens to the various matters raised square without showing a profit, to pro­ in this debate1 th~ more one feels impelled to vide for an extra 20 per cent. increase over make a contnbutwn to it. After examining the whole of the freights and fares. governmental accounts ~rom year to year, I find that they are compiled from a different Mr. Foley: You have not mentioned the angle each year. There was a time when I benefits of the development in the area where stated that the railways, although the greatest the railway runs. development tool we have were our greatest Mr. KERR: No. That is increment of factor in bring!ng goods' from the country another kind and it does not accrue to the to the five or SIX ports on our coastline and Government. this very fact, that we have so many ports deprives the system of revenue. At one tim~ l'lir. Foley: In order to prepare a fair it was considered that seaborne transport was balance sheet, you have to do that. much cheaper than any other form of trans­ Mr. KERR: You cannot show that; you port. That position is gradually changing do not own the assets on the other side. because ~he high co~t of shipping will prob­ ably brmg the rmlways on a par with The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the shipping in the very near future. hon. member to address the Chair. I e;

of depreciation, stocks of goods and order to be fair I suggest that we should materials on hand at the end of the year. realise that those moneys really belong to the Of course, capital indebtedness of £28,000,000 Railway Department and should be ignored has been written off and that is not brought in arriving at a true balance. Up to date into the accounts. The true picture is never the Railway Department has received back presented to the Rouse. only one-third of the £10,000,000 odd. Row much more it is to receive I do not know, That is all I have to say about railway but it will require, and should get, a good finances. Other hon. members of the deal more. Opposition made an overall commentary on them. I now place on record my appreciation On a previous occasion I advocated the of the courtesy at all times extended to electrification of our suburban railways. At me by the Minister for Transport and that time I mentioned the mileage of the his railway staff. I have not· got all Brisbane tramway system, I stated the I wanted and now I point out to him capital outlay and mentioned how this had the unfair discrimination exercised towards been redeemed. Since then there has been some of the suburban areas, inasmuch as that more capital outlay but the main point was shopping-fare concessions are granted to the greater return that could be extracted certain people who, because they happen to from the railways by the use of electric trains live in an area close to the city, can take than by continuing to run steam trains for advantage of them. For instance, those passenger tra:ffie. A good deal of money has living in my area of Chelmer-a very highly­ been spent on investigating the electrification developed area-can get the advantage of of our suburban railways and, that being so, this concession fare whereas people living in the Minister should let the people know the suburbs of Graceville, Sherwood, Oxley exactly ·.what the position is. In certain and Darra are deprived of them because the parts of my electorate scares have arisen over train leaves these station~! before the time the electrification scheme. The owners of at which this concession applies. Going properties contiguous to the present railway West from Brisbane it may be said that as line are seriously considering disposing of you go from Indooroopilly Bridge westward their properties, fearing that they may be the residents are not so well off financially as resumed. In fairness to the public, the those round about the Bridge suburb. In Minister should let the people of Brisbane other words, the people living near the bridge know at the earliest moment exactly what the are in a better position to pay than those position is and when it is contemplated living in Oxley, Darra and Wacol, &c., yet putting the suburban electrification scheme they get the concessions and the others do into effect. not. The Minister must E~ee that there has been discrimination between these. Another point to which I wish to refer concerns the residents of Graceville, Chelmer Mr. Duggan: Do you think we should and Sherwood on the eastern side of the examine the question on a quid pro quo basis railway line. They have some distance to -take away the existing concession and travel to the stations and for some reason confer one on the people further out. that I cannot understand they are obliged to suffer the disadvantage of having no bus Mr. KERR: I should not expect that service. from the Minister for a moment. I know how fair he is. There are approximately Mr. Power: You should see the Bris­ 10,000 people between the Indooroopilly bane City Council about that. It runs the Bridge and Wacol-that is the new electorate bm1ses. -and probably 3,000 or 4,000 of these people Mr. KERR: I know that is so, but we are u~able to get the benefit of this cheap have not been successful in getting any shoppmg fare. I think that privilege should indication of whether it is going to do it. The be extended to those who are probably not Minister for Transport is the chief ·transport s0 well situated financially as those who are authority in this State, and he should be able now reaping the advantage. A matter of only to put the residents of the areas I have men­ a few minutes in the time of the departure tioned in the same position as residents who ?f the train wouf~ place these other people have a through bus service to the city. There m the same pos~tion and they are just as are through bus services from Sandgate, Vir­ much entitled to this concession as those ginia, and N undah. We are the Cinderella wh? are able to reap the benefit because the of the metropolis in that regard. We have tram departs from their station a few only one transport service, whereas many minutes past 9 a.m. The train leaves these other areas have three from which to choose other s·tations a few minutes before 9 a.m. -tram, train, and bus. Does the hon. gentleman not think I am putting up a very fair proposal W Re is an Mr. Gair: You want improved repre­ extremely fair-minded man, and I am sure sentation. I can leave the matter with him, safe in the knowledge that we shall get a fair deal. Mr. KERR: That may be so, but if you can get better representation, get it! You l want to stress a point I was making have had two or three tries and what a ter­ earlier. I failed to point out that the Post­ rible thud you came! I can face the electors war Reconstruction and Development Trust any time and they will send me back. Fund, which now totals £10,120,102, is Opposition Members: Rear, hear! really, subject to disbursement, all money made up of railway surpluses, and in Mr. Gair: They want a younger man. Supply. [3 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1325

Mr. KERR: I am as young as the hon. reasonable rate in order to serve the conveni~ gentleman. I am sorry the Deputy Premi~r ence of these settlers, whereas if the goods: is being personal. In a few years he Will had to come by motor vehicle or other road reach my age and will perhaps become more transport there would be much delay andi dignified. greater cost would be incurred in bringing I trust that the Minister for Transport will them upwards of 50 miles from the nearest give some consideration to the points I have town. We must admire the service that the raised. railways are giving to the people in the out­ back. Mr. SMITH (Carpentaria) (7.23 p.m.): I have listened with great interest to the The hon. member for Aubigny criticised debate so far, and it is amazing to hear the the speed of the Queensland trains. It is criticism that has been levelled against the interesting to recall that when the hon. mem­ railways of this State. I know the good work ber for Sandgate was speaking I asked him the railways are doing and I have been wait­ how far it was by rail from Brisbane to Rock­ ing in vain for some word of praise of it from hampton and he did not know. I also asked members of the Opposition. We all know the him how many stopr ihere were between Bris­ vastness of our State and the distances bane and Sandgate ;~,nd again he could not covered by our railway system and the numer­ tell me, yet he is PI 1pared to get up in this ous sections of line that cannot possibly pay. Chamber and critic:..;e the railway system. If the development of certain parts of this Let me tell the hon. member for Aubigny that State-particularly the North-West-had been the railway line from Townsville to Mount left to private enterprise, we should not have Isa is 604 miles long and that there are 90 had the railway system we have today. stopping places, an average of a stop almost every six miles. Every time the train stops At different times I have brought up in this it is to give a service to the people in the out­ Chamber the subject of railway extensions back areas. How can any emphasis be placed that were built between 1908 and 1918 to on the speed of a train that has to stop every various mining centres in the Cloncurry dis~ six milesf The hon. member for Aubigny has trict and that are now lying idle. Having that travelled over the American railways and he experience in mind, it is no wonder that sought to make a comparison between the this Government want some security before speed of the trains there and their speed in deciding to embark on any further extensions this country, but he omitted to that of the present railway system. In the Clo!l­ whereas the trairis in Queensland stop give curry district alone £1,000,000 worth of rail­ service to the people of the outback of this way capital is lying idle through no fault of country, those in the United States went on the Government. These branch lines were for hour after hour without stopping because built by a previous Governmllnt to help they were travelling in the interests of profit develop the northern and north-western parts and the comfort of the passengers, in short of the State and I have waited patiently to in the interests of their own private busi­ hear some hon. member opposite praise the ness. They were giving what the editor of railways for what they have done in this con­ the ''Courier-Mail'' has advocated for this nection. Instead of that we have some hon. country-breakfast in bed for the travelling members opposite, notably the hon. member public, but no service to the people. Our rail­ for Aubigny and the former hon. member for ways in the outback give material service to Dalby, getting ?P in their places in the the settlers, the fettlers, and the men carry­ Chamber and tellmg the people that they h!'ve ing on mining operations. People coming travelled in the United States of America, under those headings go to make up the Canada and elsewhere abroad and extolling greater part of the population in those parts. the ser'vices given by the railway systems there to the detriment of the services given by I heard the hon. member for Aubigny and the Queensland railways. I have travelled the ex-hon. member for Dalby criticise the over the same railway systems abroad bu~ I speed on our railways. I will quote an have not yet seen one that gave a service instance that will answer their complaint. to the people, and certainly not a service com­ There is a section of railway in the North­ parable with that given to the people of West running from Duchess to Mt. Isa. It Queensland by the Queensland Railways. is a first-class railway line with a good founda­ The hon. member for Keppel struck a ve:y tion that will enable trains, both passenger interesting and pertinent note when he s~Id and goods, to carry loads at the usual rate that the Queensland railways gave a service of speed. About July, 1938, a very high to the people of the outback. I have travelle?­ executive officer of the Mt. Isa Mines, then on the railway in the North-West, on n;tail P'eneral manager, travelled by rail from trains, slow goods trains, and cattle trams, Duchess to Mt. Isa. On his arrival at Mt. Isa and frequently I have heard passengers col!l­ he stepped off the train and renorted the plain in these words, "Why does the tram r'nP'ine:driver and fireman for the speed at stop here f This is not a stopping place." which they had travelled on that section. He If they would only look away into the di~­ was an American who had travelled on both tance they would see settlers' homes and If Canadian and United States railways. they would only cast their eyes back to the rear of the train to the guard's van they Mr. Muller: Was he quite sober? would see the guard busily engaged in putting off fresh bread, fresh meat, and other con;­ Mr. SMITH: He is a teetotaller. modities for the settlers. Those commodi­ Mr. Brand: Is there any record on the ties have been carried by the railways at a files of his complaint' 1326 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

ltir. SliHTH: I ask the Minister to show Mr. Low: They are the worst-paid men the hon. member the file containing this in the service. complaint. Some hon. members like to boast of what they saw in other States or Mr. SMITH: That is a matter for their overseas and will not admit that the railway industrial union; it is not the fault of this service in this State is equal to that given Government, it is the fault of the industrial

Mr. SIDTH: The hon. member was one have the irrigation we shall have the land of them. settlement and the people will be able to grow their own fruit and vegetables. Mr. Brand: I was not. That is a lie. I am telling you that is a lie. (Time expired.) The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. Mr. DAVIS (Barcoo) (7.48 p.m.: I wish member to withdraw that statement. to add my congratulations to the Minister on the able way in which he has presented his :Mr. BRAND: The statement made by Estimates to this Committee and sought from the hon. member for Carpentaria is not true. us an opinion thereon. We should be very If the word "lie" is out of order, I will proud of our Minister, in view of the fact withdraw that, but the statement is not true. that he received his portfolio at a time when this was one of the most difficult departments :Mr. SMITH: He was a member of the in the State to administer. In the war years Opposition when the Duchess to Mt. Isa there was unavoidable but nevertheless Railway Bill was going through the House. disastrous wear and tear of our transport I have not seen his name in "Hansard" facilities. From 1929 to 1932 hon. members voting with the Government when divisions who now sit on the Opposition benches were taken on the Duchess to Mt. Isa Railway apparently forgot that it was necessary to Bill. maintain the transport system of this State. Mr. Brand: Prove your statement. I am very grateful to the Minister for the grand job he has done in stepping out Itir. SMITH: There are members who from the ranks into an administrative are in the Opposition who eulogise what the position under very dift'icult circumstances. Mt. Isa railway is doing for the State, but He has explained that the capital cost of the who know all the time that they voted railways, together with those other costs that against the issue when the construction was must eventually range themselves round any before the House. On1y recently the hon. administration, is very heavy, and unless the member for Windsor castigat·ed the Govern­ Government as a whole can come to a decision ment for giving rail concessions to the Mt. as a result of which there may perhaps arise Isa Mining Company. As you know, Mr. within our midst someone who will follow the Mann, there was a certain agreement between example of Christ and drive the usurers out Mt. Isa Mines Ltd. and the Government of the temple, I fail to s·ee how we can be and because the Government fostered this successful in any section of industry in huge industry and put it where it is, the hon. future. Our capital costs are mounting and member for Windsor, with other hon. members, the usurer is like a vampire sucking the life castigated the Government !or giving mone­ blood of our industry in interest charges. tary concessions to this company, which now Such thing~ as that must, in the natural employs 1,500 men. course of events, halt the progress of industry. Mr. Brand: Prove your statement. The Minister has said that everything possible is being done to reconstruct the :Mr. SMITH: I do not pick out indi­ transport s•ystem of our State, and I know he viduals. I just wave my hand through the is fully aware of the fact that the State air and say, "All those over there." When cannot expand without some form of heavy a man does not want to point to anything in transport. We hear a good deal today about particular he waves his hand and says, "All _road and other forms of transport in a those over there, all you sinners come over modern world, but we must realise that the here.'' only thing that has itself as an Where would the sugar industry have been instrument in the of heavy industry today but for the railways~ Would it be has been the and the things that where it is if it had depended upon road trans­ go with it. port~ Hon. members opposite will use any­ I was particulaTly pleased to hear the thing at all for political purposes. They :Minister's statement on something that has will not find in the annual reports of firms agitated my mind, and probably the minds like Redmans Ltd. and the W este:rn Trans­ of many members of thi& Chamber for some port Coy. any tables similar to those .con­ time. I am referring now to excursion con­ tained in the report of the Commissioner for cessions during the period of annual holidays. Railways showing concessions granted to help The Minister said he would take into con­ build up industry. sideration the fact that the employer was in a position to take advantage of conces­ Mr. Sparlres: Then how is it you favour sional fares· on the railways whenever they putting a road into the channel country~ operated, whilst the employee could not do Mr. SMITH: I favour anything that will so. develop this State. Yesterday the Leader of I have no wish to repeat myself but I the Opposition said, ''Let us build more must do so because I want to emphasise that refrigerated wagons to take fruit and vege­ there is only one real service that can give tables grown in the South to the people of relief and, should I say, security to the people the North·West." He could see an oppor­ in the western parts of the State, and that tunity to send more of his southern fruit is an extension of the railway system. I out there.. My answer to that suggestion is am not voicing my opinion only. I am that instead of building these refrigerated voicing the opinion of hundreds of people who wagons we should develop irrigation and have had the experience of drought and simi­ encourage population to go out there. If we lar circumstances in the grazing industry 1328 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

throughout the State. It is no use anyone's of sheep travelling in search of food on the saying in reply, ''What do you know about roads between Longreach, Muttaburra, Ara­ the position~'' I am voicing the opinion of mac and Tambo and their owners prosecuted the graziers throughout the State when I say by people on shire councils who had the same .that the linking of the State's railway system outlook as hon. members opposite. I have is completely and absolutely necessary. And seen thousands of such sheep die. We cannot llere again I am repeating what I have said permit that to happen again. We must pre­ before and I am expressing not only my own serve every asset we have. The greatest opinion but the opinion of hundreds of asset we have, in Australia, the sugar and graziers and the true opinion of hundreds wheat industries or other agricultural indus­ of workers-that the linking of the south­ tries notwithstanding, is the pastoral indus­ western, western and northern parts of the try, both cattle and sheep. State is completely necessary to the security of the State. If there is a loss of sheep in I do not speak in complete disregard of a district it has an immediate effect on the the sugar, wheat, or other primary industries, working capacity of the district, not only in all of which have their place in our national relation to the pastoralist and grazier but the life. If we review the economic stability of worker, too. 'l'herefore, we must take into the world we are compelled to realise that consideration the interests of all the people agricultural industries give greater stability who live in the western parts of the Sta_te to a nation than secondary industries alone. if we wish to retain the people who st1ll I believe that we as a nation have progressed remain there. beyond our present industrial capacity, that we are beginning to look too much towards I know the difficulties that will be met with the secondary field, and unfortunately we are in the building of these rail links-in obtain­ forgetting the field of primary industries. ing materials for example and the exorbitant The sooner we realise the fact that from this cost of them-but again I say that anyone primary field come our wealth and our security who has had any experience of the conditions in the West will know full well that my state­ and our economic stability, the better it will ment is true, that at no time has drought be for us as a State and as a nation. struck the whole of the State. If by con­ ~Ir. Brand: You do not expect Labour structing the railway links from Charleville to build a railway, do you~ It never built one to Blackall and Y araka to Winclorah we can yet. save 10,000 sheep or 50,000 sheep in th~ Longreach-Winton area and 1,000 head of ~Ir. DAVIS: I am rather bewildered by cattle from the Cooper's Creek area we can the arguments of the Opposition. They say save sufficient in three successive droughts to that we are Socialists or Communists, but, cover the capital cost of these railway links. damn it all, what do they represent~ (Laughter.) They acquire a socialistic out­ Mr. Brand: It would save even more than look so that they may be the gainers of that. profit and the people as a whole may be losers. Mr. DAVIS: My figures are very con­ They want to be the directors of the destiny servative. Unfortunately, I have witnessed of the things to which the people generally the complete destruction of a herd in the make the major contribution. There is no Cooper's Creek country in one of. the m~st common sense in that. Why do they not disastrous droughts that occurred m the diS­ come out into the open and say that on this trict. That was in 1921. At that time, of issue they are socialistic~ a herd of 24,000 cattle only a few hundred I think this Government have been particu­ head remained when the drought was broken. larly fortunate in their selection of the hon. That is not an isolated instance in that member for Toowoomba to till the very country and it will happen again. Today we important position of Minister for Transport. have joined in a drive in a Food for Britain I think he possesses the ability, knowledge, campaign and it behoves us to take pre­ and sympathetic outlook that are necessary cautions against the recurrence of such a for a man in that position. I refer particu­ happening. There is only one way to take larlv to his speech to this Committee in which precautions and that way is not the construc­ he stated that in the reconstruction of trains tion of roads into the Cooper's Creek country consideration would be given to all sections to enable a few head of cattle to travel into and not one section of the people. I commend and out of it. No road transport in Australia him for that. I will not discuss the present today could convey any more than a small means of travel-I think the Minister said fraction of the cattle that would be available himself that he could not very well uphold from the Northern Territory. Only a meagre the accommodation that is now supplied-but supply of cattle can safely be fattened in that I do commend him for saying that in all country now. Thousands of pounds will be sections of the State there would be trains spent on the construction of roads into the that would give service to the people. Any­ Cooper's Creek country and their maintenance one who has clone the trip from Brisbane to l-Jut they will serve no purpose. That is what Longreach knows of the disabilities he suffers I am concerned about. No matter what we when he gets into a carriage in Brisbane at rnay think about whether the extensions of 9 o 'clock at night and reaches Longreach at +he central railway system from Yaraka to 3 p.m. two days later. I think the Minister Windorah, and from Blackall to Charleville realises that and I congratulate him very will pay axle grease, they will in the final heartily on his decision to have reconstructed analysis save millions of pounds in revenue. trains not only on the northern line but on the I have had experience of droughts in that south-western and central lines also. That is area. Unfortunately I have seen thousands -really commendable. I congratulate the Supply. [3 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1329

Minister heartily and sincerely. I have every brought before the notice of the Minister, and confidence that these things will be carried out while I realise that we have no control over to the best of his ability in the course of the railways of other States, this is an urgent time. matter to the Downs producers. Many of our I commend the Opposition, in fact I con­ grains, such as panicum, canary seed and gratulate them on the moderate approach they others, which are really the clean up of last made to these very important Estimates. They season's crops are deteriorating through the have shown to us on the Government benches ravages of weavils and other pests, and with that they are capable of approaching a diffi­ the new season's crops coming in very shortly cult quest

western line recently, and I noticed that the Department might encourage the grazier to driver was bringing the engine in under take advantage of the fact that trucks are considerable difficulty. However, he did every­ running out empty and to bring out quantities thing within his power to keep the train of hay and grain to tide him over any drought running on time with an engine that was very that might occur in the future. I know that badly out of order. frequently on the Darling Downs the cost of I hope the position in respect of materials grain, after paying rail freight, is rather and man-power will improve considerably in heavy but if the rolling-stock can be used the next few years, so that we shall be able for back-loading in a seasonal period when to bring the railway rolling-stock up to a high the wool clip is being handled, it may be standard of efficiency. The railway system possible to give concessions in freights during must play a very important part in a State that time to encourage graziers to take out such as Queensland. Comparisons are often fodder for starving stock in anticipation of made between transport by road and by rail a drought. There may also be times when the but, generally speaking, motor transport is wheat industry and other industries will inclined to pick the eyes out of the goods that require such things as fertiliser, machinery have to be carried. When it comes to bulky and farm and station requirements. The goods, such as primary products, which carry department may be able to encourage the a low freight rate, road transport is not very land-owners to take advantage of this period keen to handle it. Further, if haulage over and make use of these empty trucks to take long distances is called for the railway is the back loading so that the trucks will not go only form of transport that will do the job. out empty. The department has been very considerate in that direction already and it Earnest consideration must be given at the would help to preserve one of our chief assets earliest opportunity to further developing if encouragement was given to graziers to our railway system. I know there were many store a greater amount of hay, grain, &c., to handicaps, dating back to the :first world offset the effect of drought. war, when the whole of our resources and man-power were geared to an all-out war The Minister made reference to the grading effort. Then we had the depression years, and curvatures of many of our railways, which when we were not able to give attention to greatly reduced the tractive power of our matters that perhaps should have been cared locomotives. Admittedly the -work will be for, but now, when we can increase the popula­ very expensive, but hon. member~ will agree tion, we should be able to do something that modern eqmpment, an similar to what we did prior to 1932. We example of which we at Cunningham 's should not be content with the progress that Gap on the road constructed there, will greatly reduce the of has been made in railway development over works in future. At the past 18 or 19 years and it would not be top-gear roacl was a progressive outlook to say that we were even grade and the completely satisfied with what we have done and curves previously existing and modern in this connection since then. With the short­ machinery will play an important part in any age of materials that exists at the present future railway construction. Our trains will time it may not be possible to put a very be greatly speeded up by regrading and comprehensive plan into operation but at the the elimination of curves. earliest possible opportunity consideration should be given to the feeder lines in par­ I have discussed with the Minister the ticular that bring in produce from our great operation of weighbridges on branch lines in primary industries. the country. Many stations on these branch lines, including gate-houses and sidings, are We talk of decentralisation, of population, in charge of a married couple, and usually and of many other things, but unless we can a weighbridge is attached to them. Under the provide adequate transport in our outback present system it is impossible for a woman areas we are not going to get people to settle to qualify to operate a weighbridge. As a there. Much has been said on the question result, farm produce that should be loaded at whether the railways should pay or not. It the gatehouse or siding in its area is now is very comforting to be able to balance the carted to a central trucking place, which budget but I have no very rigid views on this might be 20 or 25 miles distant. Pro­ subject. I think that service to our industries duce is bought by weight. Many grain should be our :first consideration-the people dealers and agents will not accept weights should be encouraged to develop the State. for produce unless the produce has passed over There are a few suggestions I should like a certified weighbridge and a qualified atten­ to make and I am told that some of them are dant certifies to the weight. This is having a already carried out in other parts of the . serious effect on our branch lines which are world and in other parts of Australia too. being deprived of the railage for that produce. For instance, when trucks are going out to I do not know why a woman is disqualified the West to bring in the wool clip we might from operating a weighbridge. No hard work encourage the transport of other commodities is entailed and any woman should be able to to the West during that period. At times operate a weighbridge at country sidings, large quantities of produce are sent to the particularly when we remember the work West to feed starving stock and the depart­ women did in war-time. I feel that unless ment has been particularly helpful in giving something can be done in that direction many concessional freight rates on such occasions. of our branch lines> will suffer considerably in During the two or three months in which that much of the produce that should be trans­ the wool clip is coming in, the Railway ported by rail in those areas will be lost to Supply. [3 NovEMBER.] s~tpply. 1331 other transport. At the present time, w:hen goods :from £6,732,000 ~o £9,715,000. Live­ rather favourable markets exist for most hnes stock traffic-and this IS interesting infor­ of grain producers can stand the extra expense, mation-has ,increased .-from £1,138,000 to but probably the day will arrive when the £1,303,000. . value of this grain will not carry the _extra freight and therefore it is _very desll'a_ble Mr. Sparkes: Livestock are some of the that consideration should be given to makmg best supporters of the railways. proviswn· · for the full utilisation. of these weighbridges on country hnes. Mr. TURNER: The small charges have proven a help to the cattle industry. Queens­ I would like to express my appreciation land has the lowest rate for livestock in the to the Minister and his officers of the ';ery Commonwealth. kindly consideration he has always giv.en to representations that I h:;cve ma~e. to h:m Mr. Plunkett: Why? or the Commissioner or hiS admimstrat1Ve officers in the various offices that . I have lUr. TURNER: To help people on the had occasion to approach. I appreciate the land. And these people appreciate it indi­ vidually. Their representatives do not reflect courteous hearing the Minister has always their opinions in this Chamber. given to a sound practic~l case; and I am certain he is eager to do his very best for the Not only has there been an increase in development of our railway system. returns from freight but railway mileage has increased by approximately one million miles. Mr. TURNER (Kelvin Grove) . (8.37 To realise the fact that 4,152,817 miles were ) . The Railway Department IS the travelled by steam trains and 1,861,000 miles ~:t difficult of all Government departmen~s by rail-motor trains, we may remember that to administer, and we are very fortunate m this is equivalent to 16 return trips from Aus­ having a virgorous young and capable n;an tralia to England. This is amazing. H does in the person of the Minister as man~gmg not seem a great distance when one speaks director of this vast concern. There IS no of the aggregate of miles travelled, but when private enterprise in the State comparable you state it in terms of 16 return trips to with it. There are just on 25,000 _emp~oyees England the magnitude of the task is realised. in the Railway Department, which IS an indication of its magnitude. When one con­ That mileage, too, has been covered by the siders that for the last year the revenue railways working under restrictive conditions, was in the vicinity of £15,000,000 one for instance, engines not capable of doing the work required of them because of the wonders what would happen if th~s conc~rn was controlled by private enterpnse, which inability to have them attended to and ser­ would of course require it to make a profit. viced as the department would like. This I imagine that the gross. earnin\\s. :would reflects credit on the whole of the staff from have been lifted to a level m the VIcimty of the Minister down. I am happy to know that £20 000 000 so as to provide the profit the Minister has been an inspiration to every req~ired to pay dividends to the share­ member of the service :from the Commissioner holders over the expenditure which amounted to the lad porter who 3Weeps the station plat­ to £13 770 167. Private enterprise would form. The hon. gentleman is approachable. have to' pay dividends, conseq:rently it would Every member of the service knows that he have to increase fares and freights and other can approach the Minister at any time on any charges to the community as w?ll as restrict matter on which he thinks he should have an services. It would not run trams on unpro­ interview with the Minister. That is the fitable lines as the Government do in order reason for the feeling in the Railway Depart­ to give a service for our people. ment and the giving of better service-the men are satisfied they are being looked after It is regrettable to notice in reading the and the Minister will give them every con­ Commissioner's report that the huge sum of sideration. £1,472,599 was ;required out of the total earnings to pay mterest on money borrow~d I appreciate the attitude of the Leader of since the first line was constructed. We still the Opposition on these Estimates, who set pay something on the first line built in the a very high standard, which I am happy to State, and the same position exists in the say has been reflected throughout this debate. other States. This is something novel to me since I have It is gratifying that for the last year been in this Chamber and I feel sure no one there have been increases in the earnings of appreciates this more than our '' Hansard' every section of the department. The amount staff who as a result have been able to take received from passenger traffic increased down the speeches comJortably. They have from £2,282,503 in 1947-48 to £2,740,282 in not had to strain their ears and worry about 1948-49. The big increase in the revenue whether they were reporting a member's words from passenger fares proves conclusively correctly, as they must do when continual that the people are using the railwayEr more interjections are hurled across the Chamber. than previously. The Leader of the Opposition stressed a Mr. Sparkes: The rise in fares. very important point. He pleaded for addi­ tional refrigerated wagons, but the hon. gentle. lllr. TURNER: The slight increase in fares would not account for the big increase in man did not go far enough. He stressed the returns from passenger fares. it only for fruit. I should like to see every old cattle wagon in the service converted to a The parcels and miscellaneous traffic has refrigerated wagon capable of bringing to increased from £978,000 to £1,167,000 and the market the carcasses of cattle slaughtere~ 1332 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. at the point of production. By this means thtJ I should like to refer to a statement made producer would get a return for every pound by the hon. member for Maree this afternoon. in weight the beast could carry and the con­ He spoke about railway passes and refunds sumer would get meat of the very best pos­ to the department of expenditure that is sible quality. I believe that it is nob beyond not incurred by the holders of railway passes. the bounds of engineering skill to devise a I suggest that the Minister !!hould give serious machine that will give us refrigeration in consideration to the use of passes held by wagons while the brain is running, just as members of Parliament by females. I think we are able now to provide lighting for the it is absolutely wrong that a female member carriages from one end of the train to the of the family of any hon. member-- other. If we can achieve this we shall be able to transport all our peJ.iislhable goods to The CHAIRMAN: Order! The matter market in good condition. of gold passes comes under the jurisdiction of the Chief Secretary's Department. '\ also look forward to the day when some • .,terprising people will transfer their flour Mr. TURNER: I am referring to the mills out to the area:s in which the grain is use that is being made of gold passes. produced, because it is ridiculous to go on The CHAIRMAN: That matter comes as we are, carting wheat to the cities to be under the jurisdiction of the Chief Secretary's gristed into flour, which is then sent back to Department and has already been dealt with. the areas in which the grain is produced. If we are to have a proper economic system under Mr. TURNER: I think it is definitely which waste will be almost entirely eliminated wrong that the sister of an hon. member we must take our factories to the source of should be allowed to use a railway pass that supply of raw materials. is issued for the use of his wife. The sister of the hon. member for N anango has been The other day the Secretary for Agriculture using a railway pass ever since he has been and Stock expressed appreciation of what the a member-- Minister and his o±licers have done in repair­ ing and strengthening the line from Alma­ Mr. Reading: That is not true. den to Forsayth. I have been privileged to ]}Jr. TURNER: It is not now, because tTavel over that line. If it could be extended she has been married during the course of the to Georgetown, that centre would become the last few months. hub of one of the most vigorous paTts of the State. One cattle man there, who is also Mr. Sparkes: You must have been keenly interested in butchering, told me he snooping round the department. would be delighted to start a meatworks up Mr. TURNER: I object to that remark. there and send only boned beef to the market. I did not sneak round any place. I demand He investigated the possibility of delivering that the hon. member withdraw that remark. it from Georgetown to Cairns and Towns­ It is the second time he has passed a sneering ville by air but the freight was so costly remark of that kind about me. I did not that it did not warrant his risking his life's sneak round any department, and I demand savings on the project. Some glorious beef is produced in that area and if the meatworks that the hon. member withdraw that remark. was established at Georgetown beef could As a member of this Government party, it is be slaughtered when it was in full bloom and my duty to see that everything is legal and refrigerated wagons could bring it to market aboveboard. It is my duty to ascertain in perfect condition without any loss of whether statements made to me are correct, weight. Water would present no problem and I object to insinuations that I have been because although none is visible on the sur­ sneaking around. face there is an abundant supply within 15 In conclusion, I should like to congratulate feet below the bed of the Gilbert River. Fuel the Minister on the way he is handling the for the works might be a handicap but that affairs of his department. Opposition mem­ would be only a minor difficulty. If we bers took exception to some of his remarks, are to have decentralisation in this State we but he made himself very clear this afternoon. cannot continue depending entirely upon local He was advised that he should not reply to authoTities to employ men in any great num­ the leading article in the "Courier-Mail," bers in these outback places. but the Minister has to justify his position I discussed with the people out there the and the position of his staff. If any news­ possibility of taking amenities to them. I paper gives wrong information to the people spoke to the representatives of one of the big the Minister is quite justified in stating the motion-picture houses here about providing a true position and the only way in which he 16-mm. system that could be used to give a can do it is to say it here. Ministers have weekly service to those people in all the repeatedly said th"at they have given state­ towns as far out as Normanton, and this is ments to reporters from various newspapers, within the bounds of possibility within the but when their statements reach the sub­ next 12 months. The motion-picture house editors they are mutilated and do not convey here is taking the matter up with its American the correct picture when subsequently pub­ principals and I am hoping that vvithin the lished. However, if the matter is tJUblishei! next 12 months these people will be able to in '' Hansard,'' anybody who wishes to let see on 16-mm. film pictures now exhibited in the people know the truth can do so by that Brisbane on 35-mm. film. That will take means. amenities out to those people to which they We are very fortunate indeed in having are certainly entitled. such a vigorf)us, conscientious and capable Supply. [3 NoVEMBER.] Supply. 1333 man as the ministerial head of this depart­ during the war years the railway employees ment and I sincerely hope that the orders played a very noble part. A tremendous strain he h~s given both here and overseas will be was placed on the rolling-stock also. There is no· :filled much quicker than he expects. Then no­ doubt that the railways and its employees one could accuse him of promises without played a vital part in the defence of Queens­ any intention of ocarrying them out. land. This strain on the department and its executives has had a considerable effect on Mr. CHALK (East Toowoomba) (8.55 the service rendered by the railways today. p.m.) : Before dealing with the subject before However, those years are now behind us, and the Chamber, I want to make reference to there has been a considerable infusion of new the mean, contemptible suggestion made by blood into the higher positions of the depart­ the hon. member for Kelvin Grove. We have ment. That wil1 help considerably towards heard this hon. member referred to in this rapidly lifting the railway service to a higher Chamber as '' Bert the Bum'' and many other level. things, but-- The Minister is doing all he possibly can The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. to improve the service and I am certain that. member must refer to another hon. member in the near future we shall see a material by his correct title. He must withdraw that improvement in it. I am reminded that only remark. just recently we had the appointment of a Mr. CHALK: I withdraw the remark. new general manager for the South-Western This attack by the hon. member for Kelvin Division in Toowoomba. Mr. McCrystal, the Grove on the hon. member for N anango is retiring general manager, was a man who gave nothing but a low attack. It is known by of his best to the department over a number hon. members that when the Government issue of years and his name will be Temembered by a railway pass to an hon. member and that both the public and the employees in Too­ hon. member ,has no wife-as is the case of woomba for a long time to come. I am the hon. member for Nanango-that the equally confident that the new general hon. member nominates a female relative, manager, Mr. Byrne, will be able to build that female relative may use the lady's up for himself a reputation similar to that issued to that hon. member. Yet the held Mr. McCrystal and that in doing so member for Kelvin Grove comes into the he be able to introduce many new ideas Chamber and attacks another hon. member that were not possible in Mr. McCrystal 's in the way he did. It was very, mean to the benefit of the public and and it is not the first occasion on the hon. member for Kelvin Grove has made I congratulate the Minister and also the such an attack on another hon. member. Caucus on the selection of Mr. Byrne because The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. hifl appointment has shown that gradually member will not be in order in continuing the claims of the Opposition that when very on those lines. important appointments are at stake, appoiut­ m~n~s that require ability and foresight, the Mr. CHALK: As I cannot have an Mmrster and the Caucus should, as they did opportunity of replying to the remarks of the on this occasion, show the courage necessary hon. member for Kelvin I must now to disregard seniority of years and appoint pass to a consideration of Estimates men who have both the experience and the before the Chamber, but I leave it to other abi~i~y to carry out the very important hon. members to judge whether the attack posrtwns. I am prepared to say quite openly by the hon. member was justified. that if that procedure was adopted in many other cases, many of the staff prob­ I desire to compliment the Minister on the lems of the department would he overcome. keenness he has shown in the administration We have read in the Commissioner's report of his department. I have had many !hat there is considerable difficulty in obtain­ differences of opinion with him on political mg staff for the department but if much of matters but that does not prevent my saying the importance attached to seniority was quite sincerely that so long as the majority thrown overheard ancl officers were advanced of the people of Queensland feel that there on the ground of suitability and experience, should be a Labour Government no-one on considerably more men would join the depart­ the Labour benches is more fitted or more ment. We know too that quite a number of capable of handling the portfolio of Minister employees leave the department because they for Transport than the present occupant of know they must wait for advancement by the office. I go further and say that if the seniority and that this is a very long wart. I electoral zoning system introduced by the believe there are thousands of men in the Government to blatantly hoodwink the people Railway Department today who entered the results in a return of the Labour Government, service full of initiative and keen for advance­ then I believe that the present Minister for ment, but that these have had all their Transport will he the new Premier. He has initiative killed long ago because of the the ability, the sincerity and the dignity to present system of promotion. fill that position. Something was said during the debate Much has been said during the debate about about the standard of our railway coaches. the backwardness of the railway system and While I am not going to go so far as to of the various activities associated with it. say, as certain other members have, that While I agree with much that has been said, we have the worst system in the world, I want to be fair and to say that particularly I will say that many of the coaches that are !334 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. being used today, even on our main lines­ lines in the State. I am satisfied that if the as between Brisbane and Toowoomba-are a Westland train travelled between Brisbane -disgrace to the department. I realise that and Cairns it would divert to the railway possibly very little can be done at present service many passengers who normally travel because of the run-down condition of those by air today. Tourists would have the coaches; but those that are being used on opportunity of seeing Queensland and would many lines are unquestionably a disgrace. return to their home State and be advocates I think it is taking money under false of tourist travel in Queensland. pretences to take :first-class fares when you have the type of carriages in use today that There are other important roles that the are labelled :first-class. railways can play in the development of this State, . The Secretary for Agriculture I was particularly interested to hear the and Stock yesterday asked for the extension Minister give his reason why :first-class fares of certain lines in North Queensland. I am are being continued. He said that if they sure the hon, gentleman was prompted by were wiped out there would be a drop in the North Queensland Development League revenue. I believe that to be so, but I to rush in and advocate those extensions of eannot agree that that is a sound reason for these lines. This shows that the North their continuance. That is an admission that Queensland Development League is certainly the department is aware of the very bad forcing members of northern electorates into condition in which those coaches are at the action. There is every reason for the con­ present time, but so long as unsuspecting struction of these northern lines, just as people are prepared to buy a :first-class ti~ke~, there is every reason for the construction of 'believing they will get :first-class travel, 1t IS a railway line fom Cooyar to Tarong. That just too bad for th(em 'if they do :r;ot. line would connect the Burnett district to ,Candidly I favour one class for all trams, the city of Toowoomba and provide an out­ but at the same time I realise that very let for produce grown in the Burnett area. 0ften a mother with a sick child desires to It would eliminate the bottleneck that at travel in a little more comfort, or perhaps present exists in Brisbane. If produce and there is an occasion when business men desire stock could be sent from the Burnett direct to discuss business and therefore travel :first­ tor Toowoomba by this pnlposed link it elass. If we are to hold ourselves up to the would be of considerable value. It would public as having :first-class accommodation also open up much of the timbered country available, I think we should have something there. • better than that which is being offered to the public at the present time. It we ~o I know that the Minister has this matter lose a certain amount of revenue that 1s in mind because I and other representatives something that has to be faced up to by the from various parts of the Darling Downs have Government· but it is plainly wrong if people approached him in connection with it and I paying for 'a :first-class ticket-and I ~now must say in all fairness that he has promised this happens often-have to travel m a that this link would receive cmrsideration as carriage that is no better than second-class. soon as possible. Despite that assurance, we I am not going to enter into a debate as feel that we must refer to it continually to whether New South Wales, Victoria or because just as other areas think other links Queensland has the best trains. Enough are vital to them, so do we of the South Bur­ has been heard on this matter during this nett and Darling Downs believe that the debate. Early this year I travelled from Cooyar-Tarong link is of vital importance and I hope the Minister will do what he can to Brisbane to Perth by rail and had the oppor­ construct it as soon as time and materials tunity of inspecting many of the trains used permit. between these two cities. I refer particularly to the new train built since the Wjlr for the JUr. CLARK (Fitzroy) (9.17 p.m.) : I Western Australian Government known as join with other hon. members in congratulat­ the Westland train, which travels between ing our Minister for Transport. In him we Kalgoorlie and P?rt~. Th!s train proves have a man of ability and strength of charac­ emphatically that It IS possible for a :fi~st­ class train to give a very comfortable nde ter who is prepared to see that the railways on a 3 feet 6 inch gauge, which is the gauge continue to progress, He has done a good nsed in Queensland. A number of people job up till now but shortages of materials contend that to give comfort in rail travel and man-power have prevented him from the gauge must be wide. Outside of the doing as much as he would have liked to do. Spirit of Progress, the train running from The railways are a public utility and it is Melbourne to Albury, I contend that the wrong to expect them to show a profit. They W estland train is the best train in use at are the ouly utility that has made any con­ present. tribution to the closer settlement of the State. I understand that the Minister for Trans­ When we look back over the years we can port has studied the design of this train. remember areas that had very small popula­ The new northern train, exhibited at the tions before the railways were extended into Queensland Industries Fair in Brisbane some them but are now thickly populated. An months ago, compares favourably with the example is to be found in Mt. Isa. Before W estland train. I hope that the building of the advent of the railway the population the Queensland train will be speeded up as there was very small. The construction of much as possible and on its completion the line to Mt. Isa has made it possible similar trains or greatly improved trains will to develop the mine to the stage at which it be built to be used on the western and other can support its preS'8nt heavy population. Supply. [3 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1335·

When we realise that in our Queensland of Blair Athol coal. The Rockhampton City railways we ha,ve a greater length of line Council and Lake's Creek meatworks use than any other system in the Commonwealth what is known as nut coal. I think the we must agree that our little railway, as it is department would be helped by being supplied called, has done a wonderful job. Again, with coal that is not dirty. There is no. when we appreciate the number of trains that reason why it should pay for the dirt. travelled from the South to the North and to I am very much concerned for the railway the South again during the war years, wi~h very few mishaps, we must admit that the fettlers, because they are the worst-treated Queensland railways did a better job than men in the department. They are out in thee any other railway system in Australia. It is bush, and when a public holiday occurs they OYer a thoutrand miles from here to Cairns and must stay in the camp and the day is no 1,400 miles from here to Mt. Isa, and when holiday for ~hem. Public holidays should be such long trips are undertaken with very few added to their annual leave or provision made accidents or mishaps, hon. members will to take them to a near-by city or town. I realise what a wonderful job our railways are congratulate the department on its efforts t(} doing. bring their camping accommodation up t(}. date, but because of the shortage of material However, it would be of great benefit if and man-power it is not possible to do all some of the grades on our railway lines could that it would like to do in this connection. be improved and some of the curves reduced. However, in the near future, there will be When you travel frequently in trains you no cause for complaint about their accom­ realise that some of the grades are very modation and the treatment meted out to severe and should be levelled out. That would them. make for higher speeds, as also would the reduction of some of the sharper curves. There The Government have been criticised for is one very steep pinch between Avondale and not building railways, but no Government Mt. Larcom and another at Rosedale. When would refuse to build a railway if they had the train stops at Rosedale, it is very the wherewithal and the proposal was an difficult for it to get away again. economic one. Let me remind hon. members Hiley: That station should be opposite that while they were in power be­ tween 1929-1932 they closed some of the non-paying lines, but today they would like Iiir. CLARK: with the hon. to build a line to any part of Queensland so member that it of some benefit to long as it would help them. I remember alter the present location of the station at two lines in particular that they closed one Rosedale. from Ravenswood Junction to Ravens;vood Some hon. members have criticised the slow­ and the other from Nankin Junction to Broad­ ness of our trains and have complained that mount. No Government would refuse to they frequently run late. In opinion, build an economic railway if they hac1 the however, the coal-mine owners and miners wherewithal, but that is a difficult matter in themselves are to blame for this to some these days of shortage of supplies-steel rails, extent. The running-men on the railways sleepers, and so on. I think it will be some are certainly not to blame. The coal time, although I hope not very long before plied to the Department is any new railways are built in Quee~sland. than that supplied any other industry in the State. I have seen great of iron- The department experiences considerable stone, some of them weighing up 5Tiz lb., difficulty in getting supplies of all kinds. in Bluff coal. I realise that it is hardly pos­ There is a shortage of man-power in the Central District, not only of clerks but of sible for one man to lift a lump of iron~tone as large as that in a mine, but it is put in cleaners, firemen, and tradesmen of all kinds. the coal trucks and the Railway Department It would be a blessing if the department has to take it. could get all the labour it required. It would enable it to overcome most of its At one time there were no complaints about difficulties. Blair Athol coal, but today railwaymen com­ plain that it is too big. I remember having Much more use could be made of the rail­ to go to the railway yards in Rockham:pton way· services than is being made today. There to see a fireman who was instructed to fill could be a rail-motor service from some of a tender for one of the mail trains in p the little country towns to the bigger -towns minutes. I watched him for half an hour, and cities. It would be a grand thing if and at the end of that time he had the tender we could have a rail-motor service, for only half full. It was impossible for him example, from the Dawson and Callide areas to get some of the lumps out of the chute. into Rockhampton, so that people could do· I think it would be advisable f01· the Rail­ their shopping there. It would be quicker way Department to notify the suppliers

Mr. CLARK: They can go by road to rather than remain in the cool shades of Gladstone. You cannot run a rail-motor on the road. Opposition for ten years to qualify as a statesman. I hope it will not be necessary I appeal to the Minister t·o give every con­ for me to serve that apprenticeship for that cideration to the running of a rail-motor ser­ period of time. vice from the Oallide and Dawson Valleys twice a week on trial. If that is not economic The hon. member mentioned the rolling­ he could run a service on trial once a week. stock position and said he thought we were The people in those areas should be catered remiss in not ordering earlier. The hon. mem­ for better than they are today. The train ber knows that until the war ended it was not now leaves the Dawson and Callide Valley possible to place orders for rolling-stock, and about midnight and arrives at Rockhampton there was a period when it was necessary to after breakfast. It leaves Rockhampton make an examination to decide whether the again shortly after 4 o'clock and it is mid­ high volume of traffic that occurred during night before the passengers get home and the war would continue. There was a feel· they do not have much time in Rockhamp­ ing in many quarters that the traffic would ton for shopping. not continue to increase in volume and that there would be a speedier return of ships. I congratulate the Minister on the splendid Those expectations were not realised; we still job he is doing. He will do better as he goes have a shortage of shipping. Most people are along and gets a better grip of his depart­ als0 unaware of the tremendously increased ment. I want to congratulate the staff too cost of sea-borne traffic. These were features f.or the excellent job they are doing. I have that in the early part of the post-war period always received the greatest courtesy and con­ compelled the Railway Department to go sideration from them, particularly on through a waiting period of several months Dccasions when I have had cause to interview before orders were placed. The cumulative them. demands of large instrumentalities such as the Hon. J. E. DUGGAN (Toowoomba­ railways on the heavy industries could not be Minister for Transport) (9.32 p.m.): It ful:filled in a reasonable time. It does seem is clear at this stage that there is every possi­ tragic that Great Britain, who bore the great­ bility of this Vote's going through tonight, est charges of the war and emerged a vic­ but before it does I want to make one or two tor-nation militarily is in almost a bankrupt Dbservations, which will be brief, about some condition because of the economic strain Df the speeches made since I spoke early this placed upon her. In our endeavours to help afternoon. her by providing orders we :find that there is a time lag of 2~ to 3 years in deliveries The first member who spoke was the hon. whereas Italy, a vanquished nation, was able member for Albert. I must confess that my to offer us delivery in six months from the :first inclination was to avoid any reference receipt of orders, and the material was steel to him because I am probably treading on from America made available to her by the dangerous ground in dealing with his reference European Recovery Organisation. In our case to me. I have an extremely high regard for there was a certain amount of sentiment in him. I know that his criticism, or advice­ dealing with Britain, as well as business con­ which might be the more correct term to siderations. We are in a better position than apply-would be offered in a very friendly all other States regarding replacement of way and with good intentions. When he rolling-stock. I feel quite genuinely that we remarked thaj!; I am unduly sensitiV:e to have not disrupted the transport economy to criticism I must engage in a little soul­ the same extent as other States. searching to see whether his advice is accept­ able. I feel that if certain statements are We shall, however, get a quicker replace­ made and I let them go unchallenged, my ment than any other system. From July doing so will be interpreted by some unthink­ next year we shall see immediate release of ing people as meaning that they are new rolling stock. There will be a steady unanswerable or true. Consequently, I always increase in the supply of materials. The Eng­ feel there is an obligation on the ministerial lish constructing authorities have maintained head of the department to answer criticism their schedules and unless some unexpected that comes from a responsible quarter. The circumstances occur we shall have locomotives hon. member for Albert will agree that a here at the time nominated by the builders leading article in a responsible metropolitan in Great Britain. We are in this advantage­ newspaper cannot altogether be ignored, unless ous position also: the Commonwealth Engin­ one lays oneself open to the charge that the eering Company began building works in case preferred agaiiJist the department iE Brisbane and will be turning out certain unanswerable. I therefore crave indulgence rolling-stock within a few weeks, and we for taking the course I did. shall have the full bene:fit of that industry. So I am quite confident that we shall be in a I have, I repeat, a very high regard for the better position than the southern States, hon. member and I know that his suggestions which delayed orders for rolling-stock and were motivated by a desire to help me and locomotives to a later period than Queensland were friendly. Much as I appreciate his did. advice from time to time, I feel that the premium he has asked me to pay to increase It is true that the provision of rail links my wisdom is too much for me to pay. will do much to avoid stock losses but in pre­ Although I am fully cognisant of my short­ vious replies I pointed out that the time is comings I prefer to stay with the Government not opportune to discuss them in detail. Supply. [3 NOVEMBER. J Supply. 1337

The hon. member for Enoggera charged the service, show a tendency to disregard the me with neglect in failure to answer the state­ rail part of the journey and continue the ment of the hon. member for Logan. The hon. motor service through to Brisbane or the member for Logan spent the greater part of centre to which their serviceS' operate. his time in dealing with the standardisation of railway gauges. I gave him my opinion I thank the hon. member for Oxley for on that project. I felt, from the way he was his_ kind personal references. I have always obviously following my remarks and occasion­ enJoyed a happy association with the hon. ally nodding his head that he did not think member. He presents his requests in a I had ignored his request for information. very courteous way and I appreciate his references to myself and the administration It is true I did not refer in detail to his generally. this afterno?n. I am examining theory regarding the greater revenue he the questiOn of extenswn of shopping fares thought the department shoulmng Mr. Webster, an engineer with prospective customers know that it will be a experrence of electrification of traffic. These half-hour or hourly service and in the case of officers came to Queensland for a short longer distances they know they can come to period _but owing to a series of events within Brisbane every clay at whatever time the time­ the rarlway system of New South Wales table makes provision for. In passenger have not been able to return. There has services we cannot wait until we get a full been a considerable reorganisation pro­ complement of paying passengers before we gramme, and abs·ence on holidays, and sick­ despatch a train whereas, as I have said, we ness of the other me:nbers has prevented can wait until there is a full consignment of these men from returmng. I have written cattle for the return journey before sending to .Mr. Garside and also to Mr. Moffat out locomotives and K wagons. These general askmg them to arrange for the return of observations will be sufficient, I think, for the thes? two officers to Brisbane as quickly as hon. member to realise there are real diffi­ possrble: I feel that within 3 months of the culties in getting the same revenue per train­ completr?n of . their inquiries the Govern­ mile from passengers as for goods. mei_tt. wrll be m a position to give their decrsron on the question. The hon. member for Sandgate referred to the desirability of establishing a series of I can assure the hon. member for Oxley co-ordinated rail-motor services. The principle thll;t whatever dist~rbance. there might be to is acknowledged by the department. Already resrdents they wrll recerve the maximum there are co-ordinated passenger services notice. ~ do not think the fears of the people operating in various parts uf the State-for he mentroned are as substantial as he thinks instance, Sandgate-Redcliffe, Landsborough­ ~hey might be. There will be very little Caloundra, Landsborough-Maleny, Palm­ mterference at the present time. Unfor­ woods-Montville, W oom bye-Maroochydore, tunately, the approaches to many of our N ambour-Mapleton, Y andina-Coolum, Cooroy­ suburban. stations. are quite inadequate for Tewantin-Noosa, Southport-Murwillumbah, an electrrfied servrce. I must confess that it Esk-Somerset Dam, Yarraman-Kingaroy­ was only in recent months that I went down N anago, Helidon-Toowoomba. Co-ordinated the Wynnum-Manly line and I was astonished goods services are: Brisbane-Pittsworth, to see the very sharp curved approaches to Caloundra, Landsborough-Maleny. W oombye­ the surburban stations on that line and the Maroochydore, Cooroy-Tewantin-Noosa, Bris­ same thing applies to some of the other bane to Southport to North Bank of Talle­ suburbs. Ample land was available when budgera Creek, Brisbane to Tweed HeadS', these lines were built and it passes my com­ South Bank of Tallebudgera Creek and prehension that engineers arranged for these Murwillumbah, Brisbane, Yarraman-Kingaroy­ very foolish approaches to stations. Nanango. The next speaker, the hon. member for As circumstances warrant we will extend Ca~pentaria, very vigorously and in a most the co-ordinated service. But it has been my satisfactory way dealt with the railway experience that very many of these people problems of the Far North, and I think who are desirous of collaborating with the answered some of the allegations of Govern­ Railway Department in the establishment ment neglect of the northern part of the of a co-ordinated service, once we agree to State. When he indicted members of the 1338 Supply. (ASSEMBLY.} Supply.

Opposition, not the present Opposition, for Mr. Kerr said- opposing the building of the railway line to '' The hon. member for W arrego had a Mt. Isa, that was vigorously denied by the good deal to say about the watering of hon. member for Isis, who went so far as capital, and I venture to say that, if Mount to call the hon. member for Carpentaria a Isa is su(lh a wonderful source of wealth,, liar for making that suggestion. When it will be a wonderful place for the water­ objection was taken to that statement the ing of capital. The companies are entitled hon. member for Isis amended the word to all they can get out of it for their "liar" to a more suitable parliamentary initiative in the matter, but I do not see expression. that that compensates for some of the defects in the Bill. The companies should Mr. Sparkes: No, he said it was a lie. be compelled to purchase debentures and Mr. DUGGAN: The fact remains that lodge them with the Treasurer as security on page 1515 of '' Hansard'' for 1925 the for the amount of their guarantees. We then Leader of the Opposition, Mr. A. E. are losing millions of pounds on our rail­ Moore, is reported as having said, amongst ways today, and when there is a guarantee in regard to any particular railway then other things- some guarantee of good faith should be " When we find we have a limited amount forthcoming.'' of loan money to spend on railway con­ struction, all the lines which have been That was the general tenor of the remarks of passed through the H~use years ago a:re to Opposition members. be left in abeyance m order to bmld a I shall pass very quickly over the contri­ new line to a mining field, which is a specu­ butions to this debate of the remaining lative proposition, I do not know that this speakers. The hon. members for Warwick, Parliament is justified in passing such a Kelvin Grove, East Toowoomba and Fitzroy large amount of money for speculative were kind enough to make some complimen­ purposes. ' ' tary remarks about the general administration I find on going through that '' Hansard'' of the Railway Department, and also took that there is reference to other hon. members the opportunity to submit suggestions for my of the Opposition, including Mr. Kerr-not consideration and that of the Commissioner. the present hon member-as opposing the I can assure those hon. members that we will proposal. They point to the losses that were give full consideration to those matters. being incurred in operating these branch lines in the northern part of the State. That With regard to the remarks of the hon. is in marked contrast to the attitude of some member for Warwick, the present trans­ hon. members today. On page 1513 of shipping difficulties at Wallangarra are fully '' Hansard'' for the same year, Mr. Moore appreciated by the department. We have refers to the losses on fhe following branch asked the New South Wales Railway Depart­ lines- ment for an increased allocation of wagons £ at W allangarra, but notwithstanding that Cloncurry to Mount Cuthbert and there is an accumulation of produce there. Dobbyn 37,000 That is not the fault of the Queensland Cloncurry to Selwyn 26,328 authorities. We question the wisdom of taking Ravenswood Junction to Ravens- goods to W allangarra and storing them wood 7,682 there in sheds. However, if the primary pro­ Dimboola to Mt. Mulligan 15,585 ducers want to store their goods there at the· Almaden to Forsayth 35,491 risk of incurring double handling charges, M:areeba to Mungana 41,543 further investigations will be made into the matter. There was an indictment against the then Administration for incurring losses on branch It would be wrong of me to resume my seat lines and these hon. members questioned the without once again acknowledging my debt wisdom of proceeding with the construction of gratitude to the Commissioner and the of the line from Duchess to Mt. Isa. It is senior officer& and the whole of the staff of desirable that I should confirm the allega­ the Railway Department. The last two years tions made by the hon. member for have been strenuous but so far we have been Carpentaria. able to overcome the main difficulty-arrang­ Mr. Muller: You have not confirmed ing transportation of goods throughout the them yet. State. Mr. DUGGAN: Goodness gracious me, I count myself fortunate in having the I do not know what the English lancruage services of such men as the Commissioner for means if it does not mean that! Mr. Deacon one and the Secretary to the Commissioner, was at sixes and sevens and did not know Mr. Lingard. Mr. Lingard 's name has not how to vote on the matter. He did not think been mentioned much in the debate but I have it was a good thine:, but he did not like to been able to appreciate his ability through take the responsibility of saying it was my close association with him. He is a undesirable. Certain Opposition members very unostentatious gentleman but he has a supported the proposal. fund of information, is extremely courteous, Mr. Sparkes: Who voted against it? extremely likeable, and extremely loyal. I am fortunate in having such executive officers to Mr. DUGGAN: I will be quite frank and collaborate with me and help in the various say that no division was called. problems requiring consideration. Delegation to Acting Premier. [4 NOVEMBER.] Motion for Adfournment. 1339

I am very grateful to those hon. members who have contTibuted to the discussion on this important State instrumentality. The debate has been on a very high plane indeed. Sug­ gestions have been made in a very friendly way and I can assme them that the sugges­ tions they have made will have my considera­ tion. They can with all confidence approve of this Vote. Vote (Department of Railways-General establishment) agreed to. Progress reported. The House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.