Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 22 OCTOBER 1959

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Supply [22 OCTOBER) Questwns 815

THURSDAY, 22 OCTOBER, 1959

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. A. R. Fletcher, Cunningham) took the chair at 11 a.m.

CIRCULATION AND COST OF "HANSARD" Mr. SPEAKER laid on the table the report of the Chief Reporter, State Reporting Bureau, on the circulation and cost of "Hansard" for the session of 1958-1959.

QUESTIONS

ALTERNATIVE ACCOMMODATION FOR FAMILIES AT GARBUTT, TOWNSVILLE Mr. JESSON (Hinchinbrook) asked the Treasurer and Minister for Housing- "(1) Is he aware that ten families at Garbutt, Townsville, in the temporary accommodation have received Notices to Quit, dated October 13, requiring tenants to be out of their houses by October 25?" "(2) Is he aware that in these ten families twenty-five children will be homeless unless they are immediately found further accom­ modation?" "(3) Are these buildings being sold by public auction, by tender or by what other manner?" "(4) (a) How does a per3on find out if these buildings are for sale? (b) Are they advertised or are there only just a few in the know?" "(5) Will he review this matter with a view to finding suitable accommodation or houses for these unfortunate people?" 816 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

Hon. T. A. HILEY (Coorparoo) replied- Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) "(1 and 2) Notices to quit were not replied- served. Letters were sent to nine families "( 1 to 6) When this matter was first stating that the buildings occupied by them raised in Townsville the paying officer had been sold and would they please vacate rightly deducted the time absent from same and hand in the keys. Action for employment from the employee's fort­ eviction has not been taken in respect of nightly pay and brought the matter to the these tenants. Offers were made to pur­ attention of the General Manager of the chase the particular buildings but they had Northern Division. The matter was then not been sold. Temporary housing build­ referred to the Commissioner for Railways ings at Garbutt will only be sold when they who, in turn, pointed out to me that no become vacant." authority to make payment for the time lost existed in the Railway Acts. The "(3 and 4) The buildings were not adver­ opinion of the Department of Labour and tised - for sale. The District Inspector, Industry was then sought, and my colleague Townsville, advised youth, cycle and judo in charge of that Department (Honourable clubs, scout and girl guide groups, and K. J. Morris) discussed the matter with me church organisations that the buildings and pointed out that apparently no ruling could be purchased for removal. As a appeared in any Award. As a result, the result of such advice enquiries to purchase matter was placed before Cabinet, which were made by other people." body decided-'That, in any case in which a Crown employee loses time from work "(5) On August 6, 1959, in answer to a as a result of questioning by the Police and question by the Honourable Member for is not charged with an offence following Mundingburra, I replied that every effort such questioning, no deduction be made will be made to provide alternative accom­ from the salary or wages of such employee modation for all temporary housing tenants for the time so lost.' All Government who would be likely to meet tenancy obli­ Departments have now been advised gations for a new rental dwelling. accordingly." The record of some of these tenants makes it impossible to consider them for MINISTER'S STATEMENT ON OVERPRODUCTION the rental of a house. We have a proposal OF SUGAR CANE in mind which will meet cases of that type." Mr. ADAm (Cook) asked the Minister for Development, Mines, and Main Roads- "With reference to a statement made by QuEsTIONING OF TowNsvrLLE RAILWAY him in Mossman and reported in 'The EMPLOYEE ABOUT KALKIE MURDER Cairns Post' on August 1 last, referring to the sugar industry-'Some of these areas, Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) asked the namely, Mackay, Bundaberg and Moss­ Minister for Transport- man, had suffered a loss of money as a "(!) Was a youth employed in the Rail­ result of having to leave cane in the field. way Stores Branch at Townsville taken by We will have to give consideration to new the police from his place of employment conditions and to deal with questions of and questioned for six hours in connection milling capacity and productivity of mills with the murder of Mr. and Mrs. Golchert in Queensland. In regard to peaks he felt that the three areas mentioned were not at Kalkie near Bundaberg on May 15 last?" receiving the full measure of justice and "(2) Was the youth released after the six the Minister promised that he would join hours questioning when the police were in helping to have a review of the whole convinced that he had nothing whatsoever of the mill peak set-up in Queensland,'­ to do with the matter?" what action has he taken to fulfil his promise and with what result?" "(3) Did the Railway Department dock Hon. J. A. HEADING (Marodian­ the six hours' pay from the youth's wages Minister for Public Works and Local claiming that the youth was 'off duty' for Government), for Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani), the period he was being questioned?" replied- "(4) Did the Justice Department also "The Minister for Development, Mines, disclaim any responsibility for the payment and Main Roads is at present in far North Queensland on matters connected with his of the youth's wages?" Department. This question will be brought "(5) Has the youth yet been paid for before him for attention upon his return." the time lost and, if so, by whom?" RAILWAY EMPLOYEES ATTENDING "(6) Will he issue through the Weekly LoCOMOTIVE ENGINE BOILERS Notice full and complete advice to railway employees as to their rights at law, when Mr. DAVffiS (Maryborough) asked the being questioned by the police, and instruct Minister for Transport- them not to leave their employment unless "(1) Does the Machinery and Scaffolding placed under arrest?" Act now apply to Crown employees?" T. V. Broadca&tiny by "Hr. Speaker [22 OcTOBEH] Supply 817

"(2) If so, how does the Act apply to the SUPPLY ratio of junior and senior employees attend­ ing to various numbers of locomotive RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-ESTIMATES engine boilers in a shed on (a) week days -FIRST AND SECOND ALLOTTED DAYS and (b) Sundays?" (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, "(3) Is it according to the Act for a Clayfield, in the chair.) cleaner to be in a shed attending to boilers and lighting-up same from 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. EsTIMATES-IN-CHIEF, 1959-1960 on a Sunday without assistance and DEPARTMENT OF RAILWAYS guidance of superior officers?" GENERAL ESTABLISHMENT Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer- replied- Minister for Transport) (11.15 a.m.): I "(!) No." move- "That £2,294,020 be granted for "(2 and 3) See answer to No. (1)." Department of Railways 'General Estab­ lishment'." If hon. members immediately accept that PAPERS motion and then make a comparison with the amount voted last year and the amount The following paper was laid on the table, expended during the last financial year then, and ordered to be printed- without knowing the full facts, they may be Report of the Minister for Education for occasioned some concern. Because of that, the year 1958. it is necessary that I make an explanation of the basis on which this amount has been The following papers were laid on the arrived at. This year's appropriation table:- exceeds that of last year by £1,234,630 or £1,219,109 in excess of actual expenditure Report of Queensland Trustees Limited for last year. The fact of the matter is, how­ the year ended June 30, 1959. ever, that at the request of the Treasury Department, an amendment has been made Order in Council under the Landlord and in the method of recording certain expendi­ Tenant Acts, 1948 to 1957. ture. The payments representing retiring Regulation under the Liquor Acts, 1912 allowance, cash equivalent of undrawn leave, demolished and obsolete assets and workers' to 1959. compensation, were previously featured under the respective Votes in each of the divisions. This year, however, these amounts aggre- TELEVISION BROADCASTING BY gating approximately £1,184,000, ~ are included in the Vote for General MR. SPEAKER Establishment. Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (11.14 a.m.): Mr. Walsh: The other amounts will be I should like to ask you a question, Mr. reduced accordingly. Speaker. I should mention that I have already had a conversation with you on the Mr. CHALK: That will develop. I think matter and I accept the explanation you gave I should emphasise it so that the public will me, but, in order to get the matter on record, be acquainted with the contribution by I should like you to inform the House. Did the Railway Department in relation to pay­ you make a television broadcast last night? roll tax; an amount of £659,144 which, due Did you say that I was an Independent, to the rise in the Wages and Salaries Bill, which would be incorrect, and did you say is £16,256 more than last year. Automatic that I always voted with the Government? wage and award increases are expected to account for an additional outlay of £29,344. Mr. SPEAKER: There is no provisiOn in Important significance attaches to my presen­ Standing Orders that permits an hon. membe1 tation this year of the Estimates of my to ask the Speaker a question from the floor department in that this is the first occasion of the House. I assure the hon. member that that I as Minister will be comment­ I will always supply him with any infor­ ing on or answering criticism in relation mation that he wants, as I have already done to the full period that the department in this instance. has been under my control or the con­ trol of the present Government. It is true Mr. Jesson: Mr. Speaker, may I ask the that in 1957 I launched the debate on Premier if he will tell us when the telecast the Estimates of this department, but at that is to take place so that we may all see it? time the Government were but three months old, and in the main, the activities reviewed related to a period prior to the advent of the Mr. Nicklin: I ask the hon. member to give Country-Liberal Government. Some of my notice of the question. remarks were in relation to the operations of the department under my predecessor. Mr. Jesson: I do so accordingly. On this occasion, naturally I have to 818 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply answer for the administration of the depart­ department to give the service that people ment over the whole of the period during require and the service that I sincerely which it has been my honour to be in charge believe it can give. of it. Mr. DUGGAN: I rise to a point of order, purely for my guidance. Are you going to Recorded in the pages of "Hansard" are permit the Minister to develop the subject many instances of disagreement between my of road transport in the debate on this Vote, predecessor and me on various issues, but Mr. Taylor, or is it to be accepted that that at least at the start of this debate we appear will be allowed on the appropriate vote, the to see eye to eye on one point. It is my Department of Transport? I do not want intention to follow his practice of making to embarrass the Minister but I want to plan some general observations in my opening my argument and time according to your remarks, and then to allow the debate to pro­ ruling. gress so that all hon. members who are desirous of commenting on the administra­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! It is not the tion of the department will have an oppor­ intention of the Chair to allow any dis­ tunity to raise various issues. At a later cussion on road transport under this Vote. stage, I hope to have the opportunity of The Estimate under discussion relates to rail­ replying. ways and a separate Estimate governs the Department of Transport. I feel sure the Soon after taking over the portfolio of Minister has not developed the subject to such Transport, I pledged myself to the prosecu­ an extent that objection can be taken. tion of a policy aimed at increasing the level Mr. DUGGAN: No, I am not objecting to of the department's efficiency, and at that time I invited the co-operation of railway what he has said on it. unions and railway employees generally m Mr. CHALK: Thank you for your ruling, the attainment of that end. I felt that there Mr. Taylor. was a responsibility on the Government, and particularly on me, to improve the efficiency Mr. WALSH: I, too, rise to a point of of the department. For that reason I order. I had proposed to raise it; as a approached the railway unions and railway matter of fact, I have written a note on it. employees generally and sought their Previous Governments agreed to allowing co-operation. I believe that that appeal was discussion not only on the revenue vote of appreciated and heeded by the great majority the Railway Department or other department of employees. That has been amply demon­ concerned, but also on the Loan Funds and strated by the fact that during this Govern­ Trust and Special Funds relating to each ment's term of office there has been very particular department. I was wondering little industrial trouble in the department. whether that procedure was going to be We have had one or two differences of followed on this occasion. opinion with the unions, but, taken by and large, the co-operation that I have received The CHAffiMAN: Order! It was my from union leaders, which I acknowledge intention to make a statement at the con­ publicly, and the satisfaction expressed by clusion of the Minister's remarks and after many citizens of the manner in which railway putting the question. I will make it now so employees generally are facing up to their that it will be clear to the Committee. I task are at least some indication that our desire to inform hon. members that on the policy is appreciated not only by railway Chief Office Vote I propose to allow a full employees but also by those who use the discussion on the whole of the ramifications railways. of a department (Consolidated Revenue, Trust and Special Funds, and Loan Fund Account) and then to confine the discussion I cannot, however, impress too strongly to each particular Vote. upon individual members of the railway staff just as I have brought pointedly to th~ For the information of hon. members I notice of their union leaders, that current would point out that the administrative acts happenings in the field of transport call for a of the department are open to debate, but sustained co-operative effort if the long­ the necessity for legislation and matters term employment interests of railwaymen are involving legislation cannot be discussed in to be protected against the intense compe­ Committee of Supply. tition that is being encountered by the Mr. CHALK: Thank you, Mr. Taylor. department from other forms of transport. I appreciate the point of order taken by the I do not intend at this stage to develop the Leader of the Opposition and I want to subject of what is happening to the Railway assure him that I have no desire to develop Department because of the actions of certain the subject of road transport or to put him operators of other forms of transport under in such a position that he would have no the protection afforded them by Section 92 right to reply. I simply indicated that rail­ of the Commonwealth Constitution. But I way employees are mindful of what is hap­ believe that the average railway employee is pening in the community. I will not develop extremely mindful of the attack, if I may that any further. term it such, that is being made on his liveli­ hood. Because of that, he or she is pre­ l.Vfr. Power: Don't you think they have pared to play his or her part in assisting the always been mindful of it? Supply [::!2 OcTOBER] Supply 819

Mr. CHALK: I have made my statement policy of increasing freights every time there and I stand by it. was an increase in the basic wage or some The point raised by the hon. member for other increased expense, the department surely Bundaberg is very important. The Chair­ would price itself out of the market in the man's ruling is not only a very wise one hauling field. In that way we would strike at but also one that I personally desire, because the very livelihood of the loyal employees to I think when these Estimates are before the whom I have referred. We have tried our Committee an opportunity should be given utmost to avoid increasing freights. In some to discuss the ramifications of the department instances the Commissioner has been criticised generally and not just one small portion of for his actions but they have all been for a it. Though it is not my intention this morn­ purpose. They have been made with zeal ing or at any other time during the debate to because of the belief that it is far better to discuss the problems associated with the new reduce expenditure slightly in one direction Mt. Isa project, unless the trend of the debate so that there can be full and continued dictates the need to do so, I inform the Com­ employment for permanent employees of the mittee that later in the sessien I will be department. That is the policy that we have introducing a Railway Bill. The Bill will endeavoured to follow and it is one of the contain certain amendments of the Acts as reasons why I personally, my Cabinet col­ well as a complete outline of the new rail­ leagues, and others associated with the way project unit that is now carrying out Government are doing all within their power the work associated with Mt. Isa. Naturally, to prevent an increase in rail freights. That if hon. members introduce the subject and is essential if the department is to continue develop an argument on it it will be my to give a good service and remain the largest responsibility to reply. employer in Queensland. As indicated by the Commissioner for As I said earlier, the Railway Department, Railways in his annual report recently circu­ like other undertakings, has to combat rising lated to hon. members, in the last financial costs. A close study of the estimates of year there was a drop of approximately expenditure by hon. members on both sides 38,000 tons in the quantity of second-class of the Chamber will reveal that the total merchandise carried, such higher-rated goods appropriation under all votes of £36,800,000 being particularly sought by those hauliers to for this financial year is only approximately whom I made reference as being able to £200,000 more than the amount actually carry on under certain sections of the expended during the last financial year. It Commonwealth constitution. is pleasing to record that increased tonnages It has been my happy lot to have received of grain, sugar cane, and other items of numerous communications from all parts of agricultural produce were carried in 1958- the State commending the Government on 19 59, and that livestock traffic reached an the noticeable improvement in the standard all-time peak. I know that the haulage of of the service provided by the Railway these commodities is somewhat seasonal. I Department. I do not intend to quote them know that success depends on good seasons here-I do not think I should-but they m the industries to which I have referred. The are unsolicited testimonials to the improve­ point is that the Railway Department has at ments that have taken place and to the all times before it the knowledge that it is manner in which the public contend-not me responsible, first, if there is a peak period, for the public-that railway employees are giving the carriage of all the produce. What a a better service and that the department calamity it would be if the department, in generally is able to provide for Queensland a time of full and plenty, was not in a a service which they in turn realise is playing position to accept its responsibility as a major a very important part in the development of haulier. On the other hand, we have been the State. mindful of the fact that during a time when the country is hit by a drought and when For the financial year 1958-1959 revenue there is a falling off in production, the depart­ increased by £1,522,142 compared with the ment is paying a number of employees­ previous financial year, but despite rising men who, as far as the Government are con­ costs the increase in working expenses was, cerned, will not be thrown on the scrapheap by prudent employment of the department's because of a falling off in business. We resources, limited to £583,149. I believe have to have these men there when we want that the Railway Department and the Govern­ them. Consequently, on some occasions it ment as a whole can take considerable credit is necessary to have a certain reduction in from the fact that this large organisation the hours. or whatever the case may be. If largest employer in the State, was able i~ the overtime has to be reduced, then this Govern­ past 12 months to swallow, as it were, an ment-and I believe hon. members opposite­ mc~ease of £1.-3 million brought about by accept the basis of a 40-hour week. That is bas1c wage or award increases and other what we are trying to do-at least to pro­ increased payments. By careful administra­ vide full-time employment for those associ­ tion at least we were able to absorb that ated with the department, and who, over the additional expenditure. Because we could do years, helped the department to grow and so we did not have to pass it on to the con­ establish itself by working on many occasions sumer by way of increased rates. I think it for years under somewhat primitive conditions would be accepted by all in the Chamber in the far western and northern portions of that if the Railway Department followed a the State. 820 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Aikens: You're telling me. experienced, with the tracks and draw-bar gear. Certain changes were necessary. I Mr. CHALK: The hon. member says have mentioned those things during the 12 "You're telling me!" No doubt he knows: years I have been in this Chamber. If the The hon. member worked in the Railway department is given sufficient financial Department, and I believe, if he is honest assistance or the opportunity to do so, those and sincere, he will pay some credit for the difficulties will be overcome. I pay full approach made during the time this Govern­ credit to my colleagues for their co-opera­ ment have been in power to improve the con­ tion. They realise the importance of ditions of many men in the West today. allocating as much money as possible to the Mr. Aikens: And so will every genuine department so that these revolutionary and railwayman. essential changes can be effected. Mr. CHALK: I agree that everyone who When diesel electrics were first introduced, has ha.~ experience and knows what is happen­ the department could not take advantage of mg w11l be prepared at least to pay credit their full capacity. When I sat on the to the . Government for the way they are opposite side of this Chamber I was always att~mptmg t~ face up to their responsibility. critical of the fact that sufficient attention It 1s not my mtention to criticise the previous was not given to the strength of draw-bar Government or my predecessors, the hon. gear, because I realised that irrespective of member for North Toowoomba, who was for the power of the locomotive and the quality many years Minister for Transport, or of the track, loads up to the capacity of Mr ..Tom Moores, the ex-member for Kurilpa. these locomotives could not be hauled unless I thmk a number of years did pass by with­ the draw gear was sufficiently strong. Over out a true appreciation being gained of the the last couple of years giant strides in plight of some of the railway employees in that direction have been taken. I mention the far-flung portions of the State. It is as an instance the construction of a large true that many of them are still there. It is number of wagons with an increased draw equally true that this Government have gear strength of 34,000 lb. They have made endeavoured to provide refrigerators for many possible the haulage of heavier loads. men. in the western areas. Apparently the Trains weighing as much as 900 tons prev10us Government thought that what was are now being drawn between Bowen and good for some was too good for others. Townsville. If the hon. member for We have endeavoured to improve housing Mundingburra is as fair as he was in his for railway men. Often when I travelled interjection a few moments ago, he will through the State I found that railway men acknowledge that with the fast train service son:e with lar:ge families, had previously bee~ and goods service the department is playing demed the nght to close in a veranda or its part in helping the North and in pro­ provide some other type of bedroom accom­ viding many of the amenities available to modation. people in southern Queensland. The goods Mr. Foley: Further improvement is needed. service to North Queensland has been com­ mented on by merchants in the North. The ~· CHALK: We are continuing to improve 36-hour service not only helps Townsville housmg !lccommodation. It might be that but also helps the North-West because of further 1mprovements are needed in the the link-up between the service in Towns­ electorate o~ the hon. member for Belyando. ville and the service to the north-western If. he asks h1s colleagues, however, I think he portion of Queensland. I can recall my wlll learn that many improvements have been experience in years gone by; I know effected throughout Queensland in the last something of the 250-ton load carried two years. between Townsville and Mt. Isa. Whilst we have not achieved perhaps the ideal we can The Government are proud of the fact at the present time take up to 800 tons that during the last 12 months the depart­ between Townsville and Hughenden. ment has J:>een able to move record tonnages. Irrespective of the outcome of negotiations ~he handlmg of those tonnages of goods and in relation to the new project at Mt. Isa, hvest.ock ~vas . m~de possible only by pro­ the department has been progressively fol­ gressive d1esehsat1on. Indeed utilisation of lowing expansion in the supply of heavier this form of traction has continued to be a rails, and today, whilst we are going ahead major factor in contributing ·to the saving with the Mt. Isa project in a certain way effected by the department in operating costs. we are still delivering onto sites in the far I am quite candid, and compliment my North-West heavier rails to take diesels predecessor on the introduction of diesel farther out. I look forward to the time when locomotives. Dieselisation had been started we will be able to take the heavier loco­ when I took over this portfolio. Progressive motives the whole distance. If the North­ dieselisation since that time has indicated West is to develop either by mining or what might be expected in the future. I do further development in the cattle industry not give the Leader of the Opposition all we must be able to provide the best and the credit for the results of dieselisation. most efficient haulage over the lone; distances. Further dieselisation has been undertaken The decision to advance to 40,000 lb. the in the department. In that way we are drawgear strength of all new rolling stock accelerating development. Difficulties were has already had the effect of advancing loads Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 821 from 850 tons to 1,100 tons, the maximum 250-h.p. diesel-electric locomotive. In that through load for a diesel-electric locomotive way we have been able to revolutionise com­ between Toowoomba and Brisbane. The Com­ pletely the working of trains in that area. missioner, the employees, and the manufac­ The load of "up" trains will be doubled and, turers are proud that we were recently able according to the latest figures, we will be able to lift 1,100 tons between Toowoomba and to effect in that small area alone a saving of Brisbane. That is a clear indication of what something like £20,000 a year. the department can do and how economic­ ally it can be done when we have the We have also examined the need for addi­ facilities. Whether it be in private life or tional rolling stock in the area. any other form of business one is associated M:r. Adair: Especially cattle wagons. with it is of little or no use having an 8-ton truck if you are going to haul only 4 tons. Mr. CHALK: I shall be dealing with that It would be false economy for the depart­ matter in a few moments. ment to have large efficient diesel locomotives if we cannot shift the maximum loads the It has been said that the Railway Depart, locomotives can draw. ment has not been able to handle all the cattle traffic ofl'ering. Perhaps if we take To derive the maximum benefit from the into consideration stock in the far-flung por­ capacity of diesel electric locomotives to tions of the North-West away from the rail­ haul heavier loads, it has been necessary for way line, there may be some truth in that the department to increase the length of statement. However. as I have said before, crossing loops at a number of stations to during the last 12 months we have reached accommodate longer trains. In addition to an all-time peak in the movement of live­ extending several loops on the Helidon­ stock. We cannot be accused of falling down Toowoomba section the department is now on the job. But we are mindful of the vast in the final stages of carrying out similar development that is taking place in North alterations to 14 crossing loops between Queensland and it will increase under this Rockhampton and Mackay. No-one can Government. charge the Government with endeavouring to do everything in the southern portion of Mr. Aikens: I will see that you do not the State. It is the desire of the Govern­ forget it. ment to see that money is spent proportion­ ately-between the South and the North. Only Mr. CHALK: I quite appreciate that. recently the hon. member for Tablelands My colleague the Minister for Develop­ stressed the necessity of strengthening the ment, Mines, and Main Roads is up in the Kuranda section to provide a service for North now. Last week he was in the North­ people in the Forsayth-Georgetown area. west. Each time he returns to Cabinet he impresses upon me the need for the railways to Mr. Graham: He was very critical of the boost their service to the closest railing points Commissioner on one occasion. possible because the wealth of the country is there and must be got out if the State Mr. CHALK: He is now prepared to admit is to go forward. The territory is ably, and that the Commissioner is carrying out the indeed forcibly, represented by the hon. mem­ wishes of this Government. If the hon. ber for Tablelands, I know, but we will do member for Mackay wants to be critical of our utmost to pursue a vigorous policy that the previous administration he should come will enable us to acquire the additional rolling out into the open rather than criticise a stock needed. public servant who cannot come into the Chamber and defend himself. When I became Minister I was amazed at the extent of contracted liability as against Recently I took the opportunity of travel­ loan funds. The hon. member for Bundaberg ling from Cairns to Forsayth, and knows this only too well, because I believe experienced one of the worst train rides I it was through him that the original tender have ever had. The figures show that tP'l.t for the provision of stainless steel carriages for line is not a paying one, but is that because the suburban area was turned down. My pre­ of the lack of assistance by the department decessor had made an announcement to the or is it that the area lacks productivity and effect that the contract was to proceed and wealth? Graziers travelled distances of up the company concerned went ahead. It was to 200 miles to see me and pointed out that this Government who had to come to the we were using only two K-wagons and one rescue and try to work out a basis whereby KB-wagon twice a week to shift cattle. They we did not have a claim against us for cer­ said that if they mustered 200 or 300 head tain damages involved. However, the con­ of cattle and got them to the railhead, they tracted liability was gradually growing on the wanted rail facilities to get them out. I department. When I ascertained that the made a thorough examination of the position Government had allocated to me £5,000,000 and learned that a great portion of the of loan money to be spent during the first track had not been ballasted for years. financial year that I was in charge ot the That meant that the large steam locomotives department, I thought I had £5,000,000 to and the small diesel-electric locomotives start a programme that I believed, and that could not be used on it. We have now my Government believed, was in the interests strengthened the line from Cairns to Kuranda of the development of the State. But what and allotted to it, for the first time, a small did we find? Because past Governments had 822 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply ordered ahead year by year without regard on in the years ahead it must have a budget, to when payments had to be made, a little not a budget for one year but a budget for over £3,000,000 of the £5,000,000 went in at least five years ahead so that there can contracted liability. Admittedly equipment be continuity of ordering, continuity of sup­ was coming, but with a limited amount to ply, and above all, continuity of finance to spend one must plan ahead. pay for what is ordered." So for the first 12 months I could Mr. Aikens: And what is more important, do precious little beyond pay for the continuity of employment. goods coming forward and try to keep in full-time employment those men who Mr. CHALK: I have said that. were engaged on quadruplication and other work under the loan vote. We did it. We I think every hon. member is mindful of were able to do it, firstly, by reviewing the the condition of our locomotives and rolling Loan Stores Suspense Account. I do not stock in use all over the State. Realising know who should be blamed, who was respon­ the need for improvement I asked the Com­ sible for the inflation of that Account. missioner and his executive officers to give During the war years stocks were over­ me what they considered would be their ordered. Of course, they were over­ requirements for the next five years, having ordered for a purpose. After all, I was due regard to the development that is taking in industry at the time and I did the same. place in Queensland and the fact that we If I wanted 5 tons of iron I ordered 15 tons can run into difficulties from the inroads of because I knew that under the rationing other forms of transport. A scheme invol­ ~ystem I would probably get only 5. Dur­ ving the expenditure of approximately mg the war the Railway department did the £10,000,000 over a five-year period has been same. There were shortages so they over­ drawn up, based on a spending of £2,000,000 ordered believing they would get enough to a year. My Cabinet colleagues realised the carry on. Thank goodness for the State and need to strengthen the locomotive, carriage, for the Commonwealth, the Queensland rail­ wagon and rail-motor resources and I had ways were able to carry on during the war. no difficulty in getting them to endorse this But after the war unfortunately-! say "un­ important step that we are prepared to fortunately" advisedly-little regard was paid take. Consequently I received authority to to the continued basis of ordering. Too often order on that basis. We have a plan worked 10 or 12 items were being put into the rail­ out. We cannot order the whole £10,000,000 way stores which could be purchased almost worth at once because if we did the material from the next-door storekeeper. It was right would be delivered in the year following the that we should have stock but it was equally order. Our plan is to order on the basis right that we should not have too much that equipment will become available during standard stock that would tie up money. the year in which the allocation of £2,000,000 is made. Therefore, we are approaching the Mr. Power: Railway officials would be whole subject of extra rolling stock and responsible for that. locomotives on that basis. An order has Mr. CHALK: The hon. member for recently been placed with the Commonwealth Baroona would like me to say that railway Engineering Company for the construction of officials were responsible. The railway offi­ 91 urgently-needed stainless-steel suburban cial has a responsibility, but the Government carriages at a cost of £2,000,000. The and the Minister have an over-riding respon­ hon. gentleman who is sitting opposite had sibility. The financial side of an undertaking the responsibility of handling that matter in is the responsibility of the managing director. its infancy and I do not wish to take any credit away from him; but when it got to Mr. Power interjected. the stage when tenders were called he had not the money to pay for it. Mr. CHALK: I have no desire to continue this discussion but the hon. member has been Mr. Aikens: Ted Walsh would not give it in Cabinet and I am sure he will agree with to him? me that the financial side of Government is the responsibility of the Cabinet; the finan­ Mr. CHALK: That is my opinion. The cial side of a department is the respon­ point is what is the good of having grandiose sibility of a Minister. Even if the hon. mem­ schemes and leading the public up the garden ber wants to blame the Railway employee, path, telling them what you are ordering the Government and I were able to see what if you have not the financial backing to pay was wrong. We have been able to take for it? That is what happened. We hav-: £1,000,000 out of that dead stock. That continued with this contract. We have set £1,000,000 has gone into circulation. It out, for the advice of the manufacturer and is keeping men in employment and has kept the department the basis on which it will be them in employment in the year of crisis that paid over three years. I hope next year we went through. After having passed that we will have the first of these stainless­ through a year in which the Government steel carriages-many country people will had not the capital, the necessary loan say, "Why the city?"-so that the people of money, to spend on development, we passed the suburban areas will have a service that through a year when we were running our will allow them to go to work and return own affairs. The first thing I said to home under satisfactory conditions. It is Cabinet was, "If this department is to carry essential that we look at the development of Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 823

Brisbane. Heavens only knows there is WHX type, each having a carrying capacity enough argument regarding the transport of 30 tons. Additional wagon stock, the operations of trams and buses in the metro­ provision of which is included in the depart­ politan area. The Railway Department has ment's plans comprises 10 PX wagons for a part to play, and it can share, and I believe use in the movement of consignments it will share, in the transport of more people exceeding in weight the capacity of as the metropolitan area develops. Every existing vehicles. I have often received day in the week I am asked to approve of an telephone calls from people who want to extra bus route, anc! I am told by the police, have a big unit moved from point A to '·You cannot get more buses into this part point B. Formerly the facilities were not of Brisbane." That is an indication of the available but we are now getting them. At growth in the outer suburbs and indicates the moment the department has one unit the need for the department to be able to only for work of that nature. A further handle this growing traffic. That is why we 10 are being acquired. were prepared to go ahead with this contract. Mr. Watson, the managing director of the The department's plans include 100 addi­ company, is overseas doing his utmost to get tional cattle wagons to further facilitate the the stainless steel which is necessary. We movement of stock throughout the State. know that there has been a strike in America The department needs more, but all sections that has tied up production. of the community have to be considered. I have previously lamented the fact that Mr. Thackeray. Have you considered our predecessors saw fit to initiate simultan­ aluminium? eously a number of extensive and costly Mr. CHALK: Yes. The point is that we undertakings. I do not deny that each of are going ahead and providing what is avail­ those undertakings is necessary, but with the able at the most economic price. I do hope limitations of loan finance and the need to that the first will be ready in April next year. allot some funds to each of those projects, We have looked at the position in the country. those charged with the responsibiltiy of allo­ I have travelled in the rail motors-call them cating funds could give only a· small portion tin hares or what you like-that have been to each project. operating in North Queensland and not s0 The hon. member for Mundingburra far from here. How can you expect people belted me the first time I went to Townsville to patronise the service when a heavy storm over a particular building which had been causes considerable discomfort to the pas­ given a certain name. sengers in the rail motor? We realise that we must have a number of these rail motors, Mr. Aikens: Duggan's Monument. consequently we have let a contract for 10 two-car rail motor units of stainless-steel Mr. CHALK: It had been unfinished for construction that will permit of the rearrange­ a number of years. The first thing I did ment and improvement of country passenger when I went to Townsville was to authorise services. the completion of that building. Mr. Gaven: And the South Coast. Mr. Aikens: Now they call it Chalkie's Monument. Mr. CHALK: I believe the Railway Depart­ ment can and should get a considerable Mr. CHALK: I do not care whose monu­ amount of business from the South Coast, ment they call it. It illustrates the point I but it has not offered the facilities to get it. am endeavouring to make. Jobs were Mr. Low: And in my area. started throughout the State, but finance was not available to complete them. The unfin­ Mr. CHALK: The same can be said of the ished work represented a 'large sum of area represented by the hon. member for unproductive capital. If that plan had been Cooroora. The railways should be able to followed, there would have been little pros­ compete with other forms of transport, but pect of doing any major jobs for some con­ a considerable amount of business has been siderable time. lost, and any person associated with business knows that when custom is lost it is twice as Since I have been directing the financial hard to regain it as it is to get new custom. side of the department I have given instruc­ tions that jobs have to be finished before I shall now deal with one or two other other jobs are started. That is now the points. We are taking delivery of five main­ basis. line diesel locomotives. There was some Coming within the category of the pro­ hitch in the delivery of them through the jects to which I have referred, I mention unfortunate strike at the English Electric first the transfer of the workshops to Red­ works but the trouble has been overcome bank, the building of new workshops at and those locomotives are now becoming Northgate and Banyo, and the Bnsbane available. We could have used them earlier suburban quadruplication scheme which :h&s and they should have been available as they been in progress for six to eight years. I will enable us to further improve the service. authorised the use of the Redbank work­ The increasing trend towards the handling shops otherwise than was originally intended. of commodities in bulk prompted the Ultimately the original plan will be followed. decision to acquire 300 bulk-grain wagons of It was found possible to transfer certain 824 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply activities to the Redbank workshops. The nearby and work it. If there was control by work on quadruplication gave me some the department we would have to provide a worry. It was in progress from one end of number of girls who would have to be the line to the other, from Sandgate to billeted as they do not live in the commun­ Ipswich. All these things were highly desir­ ity. Consequently, is it any wonder that able but were absolutely unproductive. I costs go up? It is not a reflection on the have endeavoured to concentrate activities on management of the department; it is a quadruplication between Roma Street and matter of common sense. That is our Corinda and I think that those who repre­ approach at the present time. sent that area will give credit to the Govern­ The Government were prepared to con­ ment because they can really ·see what is tribute to greater operating efficiency and happening in respect of quadruplication. As not throw the entire onus onto employees, part of the drive to bring such works to and so the working conditions of railway completion the new stores building at Red­ employees have been reviewed in a number bank has been opened and put into use. of aspects. I want to mention just a few Portion of the new workshops under con­ of the things that we have done. I have had struction at Redbank has been commissioned many deputations from unions who have for the repair of diesel electric locomotives. asked for certain things. They have said to The diesel locomotive shed at Townsville me, "We asked your predecessor for these which was the target of considerable local things, which we believe we are entitled to, ridicule in view of the halting of the work but we always received a refusal." Although following a show of activity, is now in use I could not agree to some of their requests, and is productive. The same thing applies I believed that they were rightly entitled to to Toowoomba. Money had been spent on a some of the improvements they sought. They certain job over the years, but progress had were minor things that would have cost the been slow. Consequently I told the Com­ previous Government precious little. By the missioner that the job had to be finished. It same token, it cost us precious little to accede is now completed. These jobs were started to their requests, but I am merely pointing by our predecessors. There has been a out that this Government have a humane priority laid down and we will get the most approach to the employment of labour. urgent jobs done first with some return on capital coming in. First of all, railway employees trilvelling on passes were placed on the same footing A feature of railway activity on which the for compensation purposes as ordinary paying Government have been focussing attention is passengers. Fancy a Government who claim the refreshment rooms service. We have to to represent the workers saying to railway recognise that these rooms give an essential men travelling on passes, "You will not be service in many places, and have to exist. entitled to any compensation, even though On the other hand, there is clear evidence the paying passenger is"! that in many cases railway refreshment rooms can be conducted by private enter­ Mr. Aikens: And they could not claim prise and run at a profit, which is not pos­ damages in a civil action. sible so far as the department is concerned. Because of that, during the last 12 months Mr. CHALK: They were given a ticket, I have been able to let 10 of those rooms herded onto a train, and told, "If anything which have shown a loss to the department happens to you, it is your responsibility and of £11,800. The rentals that the department that of your wife and family." When I was will now receive amount to £3,500 a year. told about it I could hardly believe it, but Although that is but a detail, it is a clear I discovered that it was true. We immedi­ indication of how the department can benefit. ately altered the practice. Those who have t~ken over the refreshment rooms are quite happy. A loss of £11,800 Another improvement brought about by us can be converted to a profit of £3,500. That in the conditions of railway employees has to policy will be expanded as time goes on. do with long-service leave. Under the previous Government, railway men did not Mr. Houston: What is the reason that have the same long-service leave entitlement private enterprise can make them pay and as public servants. After serving the pre­ the department cannot? scribed period, the railway man was entitled to only nine months' long-service leave while Mr. CHALK: If the hon. member cannot the public servant enjoyed 12 months. Is work that one out, his electors should have there any valid reason why the railway man a look at him. should not enjoy the same privileges as the Mr. Lloyd: Don't you know? public servant? We have now increased from 9 to 12 months the maximum period of long­ Mr. CHALK: After the interjection by service leave for which a railway employee the hen. member for Bulimba there is the can qualify. hon. member for Kedron of, "Don't you know?" I give him credit for knowing. If he Retired railway employees have also been is in the category of the hon. member for given the long-sought privilege of a station, Bulimba, well and good. Private enterprise to-station pass instead of a point-to-point can make a do of a railway refreshment pass. That is something else that costs the room because a husband and wife can live department nothing. Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 825

JVIr. Aikens: It was knocked back time and to animals and loss resulting from grass time again by the Labour Government when fires caused by railway locomotives. the unions and I asked for it. J\;lr, Aikens: I hope you are not forgetting that some other hon. members want to lVlr. CHALK: I do not always agree with the hon. member for Mundingburra, but today talk. his interjections are factual. The file is Mr. CHALK: The hon. member will have cluttered with reports of deputations to the his opportunity. previous Minister seeking these improvements in working conditions. When I granted one Finally, I want to pay public tribute to request a union official said to me, "I did the services given to the department by our not think that this Government would give us goodwill officers. When I took office com­ what their predecessors refused." We might plaint after complaint came to me, and it was be termed a Tory Government but at least said, "We have a complaint. What is hap­ we have a humane approach to the working pening about it? We have got in touch conditions of our employees. The previous with the department but we can do nothing." Government would not grant their requests. We appointed four goodwill officers. It would have cost them very little, but it Mr. Thackeray: They do a good job. would have meant a good deal to their employees and their wives and families. Mr. CHALK: I am pleased to hear that coming from the other side. We appointed Mr. Aikens: You might be Tories, but you Mr. Sturgess to the South-eastern Division, are too sensible to act as Tories. Mr. Ogilvie to the South-western Division, Mr. Burkitt to the Central Division, and Mr. Mr. CHALK: I will not come in on that Honeycombe to the Northern Division. I one. want to have recorded in "Hansard" my per­ sonal appreciation, and the appreciation of Mr. Lloyd: How many men did you sack the department, of the work those men are yesterday? doing. They are going out into the coun­ lVIr. CHALK: I will be answering the hon. try soliciting business. They are asking the member's question tomorrow morning. We ordinary business man, "Why have we lost have given full-time employment to every your business?" or "What can we do to help permanent railway employee. I challenge the you?" Only yesterday I had an outstand­ hon. member to name one permanent rail­ ing tribute paid by a business man who way employee who has been dismissed by this termed the goodwill officers "trouble­ Government other than for a cause brought shooters." He said, "Appointing those men about by his own actions. Not one permanent was the best thing the Railway Department ever did." A case occurred in North Queens­ railway employee has been dismissed from land, Mr. Honeycombe's area. I understand the service during the two years or so that we several complaints were made by a business have been in office. We try our utmost to house. Mr. Honeycombe said, "All right, keep people in full-time employment. I will be round straightaway." He investi­ As will be readily appreciated, a general gated them. The person who spoke to me review of the provisions of a measure like said, "It was so unlike the days gone by. tfJe Railways Act is not an undertaking that Not only did he investigate them but he can be quickly disposed of, but action has came back to tell us about them." That now been completed in this direction and is the type of service we want to give. These legislation embodying amendments deemed men are playing their very important part. desirable will be introduced by me later As time goes on we shall probably appoint this session. I am astounded at some of more. They have been responsible for get­ the trivial provisions that have been allowed ting considerable quantities of wool back to to remain in the Act over the years. We the railways. They have cleared up many propose to clean up many of them. misunderstandings about freights. These are the things that indicate this Govern­ Let me remind the Committee of another ment's approach to the Railway Department. very important matter that has been faced If we can continue like that, if we can build up to by this Government. How often had up our rolling stock strength, if we can get my predecessor and other Labour hon. mem­ the goodwill of the public which I believe bers had hurled at them, on platform after we have been regaining, if we can get the platform, criticism about compensation pay­ co-operation and assistance of the adminis­ able for death or permanent injury! Every­ trative staff I am confident that the railways one knew that it was more fortunate to be will play their part in developing Queens­ knocked down by a motor car than by a land. I pay particular tribute to the train, or to be hurt in a bus than in a rail­ administrative staff. I have had nothing but way carriage. We faced up to that. The complete co-operation and assistance from limitation of £2,000 placed on compensation the Commissioner and Secretary. I have for death or personal injury, which had been astounded at their knowledge. The obtained since 1914, was removed. The rele­ same could be said about many other offi­ vant sections of the Act were amended, too, cers associated with them. They have a job to provide for increased maximum payments, to do. Given the right guidance I believe r10re in keeping with ruling money values, that this great undertaking can prosper and being made in instances of loss of or injury become a business that at least will pay 826 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply working expenses and not be a drain on the talk about everybody falling down on the job. revenue of the State. If the railways lose I am not going to spend time defending my money it means less money for hospitals, previous administration, but I do say that schools and other facilities. All the finance neither I nor the Labour Government of comes out of a common pool. By measur­ which I was a member, have any cause to ing up to its responsibilities, by being given hang our heads in shame regarding the steps the right guidance, I am certain that the I took on my initiative or our collective Railway Department can and will in the years responsibility as a Cabinet for the rejuvena­ ahead play its part in the development of tion and the rehabilitation of the railways. the State. Despite the fact that there has been and Government Members: Hear, hear! always will be the necessity for industrial reforms I have no occasion to hang my head Mr. DUGGAN (North Toowoomba­ in shame on the general treatment of rail­ Leader of the Opposition) (12.32 p.m.): We waymen. I have in an honoured place in my have heard a somewhat extraordinary speech home a grandfather clock valued at £100 this morning. The hon. gentleman, instead which was presented to me by railwaymen for of being Minister for Transport, engaged in my services to them during the period that athletics and fencing. He would make an I was in office. I also received a special pre­ excellent fencer with his parry and thrust. sentation from the Trades Hall after my He started by saying that he did not want to defeat as a token of esteem from all the import any personalities into the debate, nor unions of the Railway Department. I treasure did he want to take away any of the credit that gift and the sentiments expressed on due to previous Labour administrations and that occasion. previous occupants of the office of Minister The only thing I give the Minister credit for Transport in this State. Having paid for is the question of long-service leave. If those tributes to tho_se gentlemen and Govern­ the hon. gentleman is so keen on going back ments he proceeded to say how shocked to through the volume of files he will find that the very core he was about certain malprac­ I did ask the administration to furnish a report tices that had operated for so long on the to me on that. It was not implemented because industrial side, how we had overspent money, of circumstances that need not be enumerated and the deplorable condition of the rolling here. The Minister talked about compensa­ stock. He finished up, of course, finding tion and made a great fuss of these trivial that in his first term of office he had not things that have an impact in the industrial been able to balance the budget as he had movement. How many men were injured so earnestly sought us to do on so many who were treated the same way as other occasions. We heard him bring forward passengers. I say that there is not one who the old plea about the railways having to has been disadvantaged under this rule. serve the requirements of the State, that they were a development agency and all The hon. gentleman also referred to the the other arguments which we used for so station-to-station pass. I question whether many years. We were criticised for so there is one man in the Railway Department defending our administration but he is now who has not over the years been permitted employing the same argument in the defence to go precisely where he wanted to. of his own administration. Mr. Coburn: The establishment of the The hon. gentleman was like a knight principle is important. coming out in his shiny new armour. When he was in Opposition he was selected as the Mr. DUGGAN: That may be so. I am man to concentrate on transport matters in not going to spend much time on these matters. There was not a more vociferous the shadow Cabinet. It was a shadow that materialised in due course through a series critic of the Railway Department than the of fortuitous circumstances which the Min­ Minister was when he was a member of the Opposition. When the hon. member for ister would not want me to regale the Com­ Ithaca was coming back from Townsville mittee with, but with which he is perfectly last week, owing to a breakdown a diesel familiar. However, he is there and I do not want to take away any of the credit or dis­ train was immobilised for three or four hours tinction of being the occupant of such an and a woman unknown to the hon. member for Ithaca or myself said, "You do not hear important office. However, he has said him­ Mr. Chalk making a great fuss about thes-= self that he now has an opportunity after things as he did when Mr. Duggan was a break of 12 months-the Railway Estimates Minister." I have not dealt with any parochial were not discussed last year-to defend so matters-and there are many in my electorate valiantly the great reforms and ideas which which I could have brought up if I ele<:teJ to he said should be introduced when he was follow the pattern of the hon. gentleman. not a person occupying a position of great administrative or executive responsibility. H

-and we believe that all railway employees rank-and-file railway employee. It should are just as interested in their successful also have available to it the best technical operation as we are." brains as well." Fair enough words, I suppose, for a policy Those two major undertakings were given, speech. Maybe the Minister and the Premier the first by the Premier and the second by are going to treat the shareholders. as prefer­ the present Minister, who was so anxious to ence and ordinary shareholders. I have told earn his political spurs that he said on several the story, the ending of which was that the occasions that this committee of inquiry only benefit the preference shareholders would should be arranged. Despite the fact that get would be nothing a fortnight earlier than he now comes to the defence of the Commis­ the ordinary shareholders. If the Minister is sioner, I suppose there was no greater critic sincere and wants every employee in the Rail­ of him than the Minister when in opposition. way Department to be a contented share­ As one with 10 years' association with the holder, let him treat the great body of men Commissioner of Railways I can state that employed by the department on the same I do not suppose in the whole of the Public basis as he recently treated through the Com­ Service one could find a more dedicated missioner the white-collar workers of the officer. During his working hours he is department. I am not averse to white-collar talking railways, and I think that during his workers getting just recognition, linked as sleeping hours he is dreaming about them. they are with the Public Service, but if th~ I do not know of any man who has been Minister wants a contented service he will not more punctilious or who has been actuated get it by denying on the one hand substantial by greater zeal and fidelity to duty than the benefits to a large body of men who are doing Commissioner, not that he has always agreed equally useful work with the clerical section with me, nor I with him. He is a very in the administration of this important State knowledgeable officer who unquestionably instrumentality, and on the other hand giving works very hard himself. While on that those benefits to the clerical section. thought I pay a tribute also to his chief As the Minister is so anxious to hurl back lieutenant, Mr. Lingard, for whom I have at me my alleged failure to acknowledge my held a high regard ever since I have been industrial obligations, I point out to him in close association with him. He is one of that, when adjustments were sought in the the most able public servants in the State, a wages of tradesmen, I was able to persuade modest retiring man but unquestionably one my colleagues to accord to railway employees of the most knowledgeable men I know. a 27s. 6d. margin for skill for tradesmen, and Because of the wide ramifications of the 17s. 6d. for non-tradesmen. Neither he nor Railway Department, he carries a very heavy his ministerial colleagues has been willing responsibility indeed. He needs not only a to apply that principle to men employed in specialised knowledge such as that possessed other departments of the Crown such as the by officers in, say, the Department of Public Department of Public Works. They have not Lands or some other department, but also received similar recognition. a general commercial knowledge, because of the drawing of contracts and other matters The Premier in his policy speech went on which bring him so frequently into association to say- with business interests. "To achieve our aims, and to gain the To many other officers of the department, experience and knowledge of all sections whom I shall not enumerate individually, I of the service, we intend to set up a express sincere thanks for their many years Railway Consultative Committee that will of courteous, fine service and efficiency. I include among its members Railway Union also pay a tribute to the employees generally representatives nominated by the union throughout the department, from the Com­ members. missioner down to the youngest apprentice or Its function will be to make recommenda­ employee. As I pointed out there was always tions as to ways and means to improve the implied criticism by many of these gentlemen, administration, working, and efficiency of particularly the present Minister. Since he the railways, better working conditions for assumed office he has not undertaken to dis­ employees. and any other matters that charge one of these requirements which he would assist in the task of making the felt was so necessary. He considered a rigid Railway Department, not only the biggest, inquiry necessary to correct the financial drift but also the most successful business in which is characteristic of the Queensland rail­ Queensland." ways and indeed of all railway systems. I do not intend to engage in cheap criticism. This is what the Minister had to say on the I want to deal with the problem according ~ubject ,m 1954-1955, page 965 of to the importance it requires. I realise that Hansard- the Railway Department is an important "We should set up a committee of inquiry Crown instrumentality bringing in much to make a thorough investigation of every money and having wide ramifications, and phase of the Railway Department's activi­ apart from a general attack on the policy ties. On that committee there should be being pursued I will not engage in a criti­ a representative of business interests. It cism of trivial matters such as the absence of should also have on it a responsible rail­ lavatory locks or doors, which has been a way administrator as well as a responsible feature in a debate on railway Estimates in 828 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply years gone by. The Minister has found, railways with fresh capital improvements despite an improvement in the financial posi­ and an up-to-the-minute approach of rail­ tion, that he is relatively no better off than way transportation. Over the last two years the state of affairs that obtained in the other we have seen that policy unfolded in com­ States because of the buoyant conditions. pletely bright fruition." The Commissioner attributes the improved position to seasonal conditions and the great He was there commending the bold step increase in the movement of agricultural pro­ taken by the previous Government in pur­ ducts and livestock. There has been an chasing, for example, 177 new locomotives, increase of 350,000 cattle moved in the last of which 58 were diesels. financial year, which increase was brought The Minister said that he would go round about by seasonal conditions and the tremen­ the world and, if necesary, buy locomotives dous demand for beef in America which is "off the hook," yet his Government have reflected in the revenue of the railways. The not placed an order for one locomotive since Minister, in his parry-and-thrust attack gives their accession to office. If there is any thanks to myself for the provision of diesel benefit from the policy of dieselisation, it power and other things, but when he was in must be recognised as flowing from the Opposition he said, as is reported on page wisdom of a Labour administration in 1087 of Vol. 215 of "Hansard"- realising the need for it. The Commissioner's "Moreover, if it was right in 1950 to ability to meet the present obligations of have 145 locomotives on order, should we the Railway Department result only from the not have at least as many on order today foundations that were laid bv Labour in to replace old and worn-out engines, and years gone by. · to meet the increased demand? But today Reference has been made to the placing we have only 44 engines on order. Can of an order by the previous Government for that be said to indicate foresight?-­ £2,000,000 worth of carriages. I shall not We must scour Australia, and if needs be, detail the circumstances of that matter, but overseas, to obtain delivery of new rolling­ the order was not repudiated while I was stock, not to be delivered in the years ahead Minister. If it was, it was at a time when but almost 'off the hook'." there was a difference of opinion within the That was what the present Minister said Labour Party and when I found myself no when he was a private member tearing rail­ longer with the body of Cabinet, which way administration to pieces. He has not went in a certain direction and formed a done what he said should have been done and, new political party. The Commissioner, as indeed, if you look through the record you well as the present Treasurer and other will find that from 1 July, 1945, to 30 June, people, know that money could have been 1956, which covers the period of my occup­ found for those carriages and would have ancy of the portfolio, the Government spent been found had the then Cabinet not £24,869,486 on locomotives and rolling-stock. foundered. In any case, the option was due That was spent at a time when the value of to lapse last August, but the Minister exer­ money was greater than it is today. The cised the option I secured and. placed an effective utilisation of funds for more rolling­ order for the carriages. I am unaware of stock is reflected more strongly in those any legal obligation that rested on the figures than in comparable figures today. To Government. I certainly did not advise show what we have done in these matters, the company of the acceptance of the J mention that I set out in booklet form contract, nor did any responsible officer of some of the things that happened between the department. I am subject to correction 1950 and 1956. This booklet shows a record in this matter, but I should be very interested of which I do not think any Government to learn of any legal obligation that rested need be ashamed. It contains a summary on the department in that matter. In any of what was done in that period, and hon. case, the Minister destroyed the whole value members will find that between those dates of his criticism when he said that the 8,821 new wagons of steel construction were carriages were urgently needed. placed in service, but the average injection of wagons into the railway service since the Mr. Chalk: I did not take any credit from Minister has been in charge has been but a you. I said you did not have the money. fleabite, and would not average one-tenth. Mr. DUGGAN: We did have the money. An analysis of the expenditure as set out in Circumstances other than finance came into the Commissioner's report shows that it is the matter. I am certain that if I had a fleabite compared with the main impact stayed with the other members of the of expenditure during the term of Labour Cabinet and they were still the Government, Governments. the order would have been placed a long time The Treasurer, when dealing with the ago. matter recently, took a different attitude to Mr. Chalk: Then you are responsible for that of the present Minister for Transport. the fact that the carriages are not here? In 1954, when in Opposition, the present Treasurer said- Mr. DUGGAN: That could be so. "I have applauded the various steps There are two other matters to which I involved in a bold policy of re-embarking should like to refer, but as time is pressing on the spending of money to equip the I shall have to be very brief in my remarks. Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 829

The first relates to the consultative com­ I hope that nothing will be done to mittee, which has not yet been brought jeopardise the early implementation of the into being. The Minister, with a great electrification proposals. I think they are blaring of trumpets, found it politically sound in every possible way. prudent to bring to Queensland Professor (Time expired.) Hytten, an alleged authority on transport matters. However, despite a very gracious Mr. FOLEY (Belyando) (2.15 p.m.): I give approach to the Minister-we have almost full credit to the Minister for any improve­ made an obeisance to him in our efforts to ments he may have effected since he has held learn something about the report-we cannot his portfolio. He has mentioned some and get it. Why does not the Minister bring the emphasised the fact that many of them did report to the light of day? There must be not cost the department anything. Never­ very good reasons for his failure to do so. theless, as time goes on, railway employees As a rule he is very vocal but in this matter will enjoy the minor privileges he referred to. he is acting like the reluctant debutante. I At the same time I point out to the Minister ask him to reconsider the matter and table that over the many years since Labour first the report. became the Government of the State con­ Secondly, I am rather disturbed at the siderable arrears were cleaned up. Whereas statements attributed to the Premier-and once the average railway employee, particu­ indirectly on one occasion to the Minister larly the fettler, was classed as the Cinderelia for Transport-that the Government are of Government employees, Labour adminis­ disinclined to proceed with the proposal to trations brought him to a very high standard electrify Brisbane's suburban railways. I of living. Even though the Minister has no think a careful survey of the traffic problems doubt made many improvements following in every metropolitan city will prove con­ Labour's policy there are still arrears that clusively that rail transport offers the most he has been unable to catch up with. That effective solution in the movement of large position obtains at the end of every financial bodies of people quickly and cleanly in a year as he will find as long as he is in charge modern community. Brisbane's suburban of the department. Because of the limited traffic is something like 27,000,000 passenger amount of finance that can be allotted to the journeys a year. Meubourne's runs into Railway Department yearly the Commissioner 258,000,000 passenger journeys a year and and his staff always find it impossible to keep the suburban passenger journeys number pace with the demands that come from all 244,188,585. The figures are much the same sections throughout the State. Consequently for Sydney. there are always arrears from one financial Here is an opportunity to offset the year to the next. In the war years tailway decline in coal production. Coal can be used men responded magnificently. They gave much more economically in a stationary everything they had for the efficient transport boiler than in a mobile one such as a of troops and materials, an effort that has railway locomotive. By electrification we been acknowledged as second to none any­ could do as New South Wales does and where in the world. Rolling stock and progressively reduce the cost of electricity engine-power effectiveness was redu.:ed supply to consume;s, both domestic and almost to zero. Something had to be done. commercial. If we had more power The Labour administration responded. Over generated we could use at off-peak periods a period of years between £40,000,000 and West Moreton and Maryborough coal. On £50.000,000 was poured into the Railway the 3,000-volts D.C. system we could have Department for rolling stock, locomotives, the foundation laid for ultimate expansion diesels, and other equipment to make up to various other places. for the deterioration during the war and because of that expenditure, rolling stock When I was Minister for Transport, the and locomotives have a greater measure of present Treasurer, Mr. Hiley, referring to effectiveness today than at the end of the the line to the South Coast, said, as recorded war. As the Leader of the Opposition at page 1084 of the 1956-1957 "Hansard"- pointed out the Minister is getting the "You call tenders for a franchise for an benefit of that improvement brought about electric line there; you will be surprised by the previous administration. The depart­ at what you will get." ment now has the requisite engine-power; rolling stock had been brought up to a very The Government have been in office for nearly three years and I see no evidence high standard. Nevertheless the Minister will of any disposition to call tenders for a find during each year that there are arrears franchise there. of work that cannot be attended to because of insufficient finance. I was not here when Adequate provision must be made for the the Minister commenced his speech this future transport requirements of the people morning, but I listened to his remarks about in Brisbane. No Government, however, the great development in the North-West, sectional, can afford to deny adequate trans­ North, Mackay and Toowoomba areas, but port facilities to a city with a population of I did not hear him say anything about the 600,000 people and still growing. They would Central Division. Previous administrations help immeasurably to open up more areas poured many millions of pounds into the in outer suburbs, cheapen the land and improvement of that division. By regrading relieve the congestion on city streets. and relaying and making pass-points, the 830 Supply [ASSEMBLYJ Supply

Clermont line was brought up to a very high dations, there is merit in the suggestions of standard of efficiency. Similar work was men on the job. If the improvements they carried out between Emerald and Rock­ suggest were carried out, their work would hampton and Emerald and Bogantungan, be lighter, and labour costs would be reduced where much relaying and regrading was considerably. carried out costing many millions of I have seen as many as 11 locomotives on pounds over a period of years. However, the line at Alpha. They could not be there is still much more to be done attended to because of insufficient labour if we are to have the advantage of and equipment. They remained at Alpha diesel engines beyond Emerald. For until it was convenient to send them to instance, it will be necessary to reduce many Rockhampton. Time and money are lost of the grades on the Drummond Range. At through delay at Alpha, and the time in present a big staff is needed at Bogantungan, taking the equipment to Rockhampton and where they have to reduce the load and returning it. Decentralisation would give double the engine power to bring the train~ quicker results. over the range. I bring that to the nUlice of the Minister. It would be a great advan­ I turn now to the hoisting gear in loco­ tage to the West and the Railway Depart­ motive and wagon sheds. For years, until ment itself if bigger loads could· be carlicd recently, the men had to use an old type over the range. jack to raise wagons and loq:Jmotives, but During previous debates on these Estimates recently modern hoisting apparatus was I referred to the advantage of having main­ installed at Emerald. tenance repairs to wagons and engines carried Mr. Windsor: Since this Government came out locally. At present everything appears into power. to be centralised in Rockhampton, \\

men and other railway men at the various from an infectious disease cannot be carried depots. Every time that I visit Emerald and in a luggage van, even though it may be in Alpha, at any time of the year, one, two, a hermetically-sealed coffin. and perhaps three men will tell me that they have applied for a house without success. To do the Commissioner justice, I pointed They ask me to do something to get it for out to him the stupidity of the regulation them. I cannot help everyone in the Rail­ and he issued instructions that the body was way Department to get a house, and so to be taken back to Townsville in the coffin. I suggest that the Minister allocate a larger That gives hon. members some idea of the portion of the Vote to the building of crass stupidity and the almost mid-Victorian accommodation for men particularly in the aura of some railway by-laws. isolated portions of the State. Unlike the Mr. Windsor: He is a very good Minister. city dweller, these men work under very adverse climatic conditions. Nothing but Mr. AIKENS: I did not get in touch with the best is good enough for men who give the Minister. Either I am not speaking such excellent service to the Railway Depart­ plainly or there is something wrong with the ment. hon. member's ears. I said that I got in touch with the Commissioner. I suggest to the Minister that on the next occasion when he introduces his Estimates The Minister has said that the Railway he should give an account not only of what Department realises that it has to meet intense he has done but also of what he has been competition from road and air transport. It unable to do. always has had to meet competition from sea transport and it has done so more or less successfully. The Railway Department now Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (2.36 p.m.): employs officers-! think they are called listened with considerable interest to the "good will" officers-who go out and meet Minister's speech, particularly his remark the public and put the case of the Railway that he found it necessary to recast many Department before those who might use the of the outmoded and archaic by-laws of the railway system for the transportation of their Railway Department. I suggest that he apply goods. that principle to the whole administration of the department, which at present is cluttered Mr. Low: It is a very good idea. up with precedents and cobwebs from the past. Mr. AIKENS: An excellent idea and I Let me give an example of how outmoded know that the officers concerned do very good some railway by-laws are, and this is some­ work. But they are up against many prob­ thing that came under my direct notice only lems. One that could very well be investigated a few short months ago. A man in a highly­ is the remarkable facility with which police contagious state of tuberculosis travelled by officers in country districts will give a permit train from Townsville to Brisbane so that he for road transport when it should not be could get medical attention here. He travel­ issued at all. But that is by the way and I will led in a first-class sleeping compartment. It not develop it any further. It is something is quite probable that on the journey down the Government should examine. he went into the various railway refreshment The Minister is to be commended for say­ rooms and the buffet car and mixed with ing to those who administer the railway other passengers at the risk of infecting them service in the State, "The old days when with his complaint. I make it clear that I the Railway Department had a monopoly and am not blaming the man concerned; I am the people had to have their goods carried merely telling this story to exemplify the by rail and had to travel by rail are gone for crass stupidity of some railway by-laws. The ever. We are now facing intense competition man was a veritable reservoir of infection; from many avenues and we have to be he was able to mix freely with the other modern and go out and meet it." passengers, and presumably he handled many appliances used on the train in the prepara­ Unfortunately the Minister has not gone tion and serving of food. far enough. He paid a tribute to the railway­ men, the rank and file of the service, and said His illness was so far advanced that the he believed they were just as eager as he medical treatment he received here was un­ was to co-operate in grappling with and over­ availing, and he died. His relatives wanted coming the problems of alternative means of his body taken back to Townsville in the transport; but for some reason unknown to coffin compartment of the luggage van of the me, he has not agreed, to adopt the only "Sunlander". Naturally, they wanted it placed course that can successfully put the Railway in a hermetically sealed tin or lead coffin, but Department on a competitive basis with other bless my soul if the railway regulations did forms of transport and that is to set up not preclude them from doing so! Although advisory committees in every division corn­ he could travel down, a veritable reservoir prising members of the rank and file of the of infection, his body could not be taken railway service, members of the various rail­ back in the coffin compartment of the luggage way trade unions, who can meet regularly van of the "Sunlander" in a hermetically­ with the general managers, and at times come sealed coffin. The railway regulations pre­ down and meet regularly with the Commis­ scribe that the body of anyone who has died sioner and his officers, and tell the general 832 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply managers and the Commissioner just what the points. When the interlocking gear was should be done to put the railway administra­ taken out of the south yard the unions con­ tion on a really up-to-date foundation. cerned-particularly the A.R.U. of which I am and have been a fully financial member Let us be quite honest about it. We have for 41 years, proud of the privilege the union in the railway administrative section some gave me to continue as a fully financial men who still live mentally in the days when member after I came into Parliament in the Railway Department had a monopoly and 1944-said to the general manager, "Look, they either cannot or will not realise that the shunters in the south yard have enough this is the year 1959 and that competition is jobs to do now, goodness only knows. If you keen. Consequently, all sections of the rail­ are going to insist that the points be manually way service must be so moulded and welded held we need some asistance in the south together as to present a united front to all yard." The attitude of the general manager, forms of competitive transport. supported by the Commissioner who is sitting The advisory committees would be well in the lobby listening to me, was perhaps an worth while and would justify their establish­ attitude that had been engendered by years of ment. If they did not bring one extra pound Labour Governments. They received a dog­ of revenue to the Railway Department­ matic "No." The attitude of the Government although I have no doubt they would bring for far too long has been, "If a railwayman countless thousands of extra pounds of asks you for something just say, 'No'. Don't revenue to it-they would be worth their investigate the rights or wrongs of their establishment if they operated only for the suggestions but just say, 'No', and tell them to prevention of industrial disputes within the go and jump in the lake." As it happened, railway service itself-disputes that have the shunters in the south yard-and more happened but should not have happened. than one union was involved-decided to I have in mind two disputes in my own put on a regulation strike. Again the hon. beloved home town of Townsville. They members for Mackay and Keppel-and the hon. member for Norman whom I forgot occurred because of the archaic, cobwebbed was an ex-engine driver-can tell you just attitude of the railway administrative officers. what shunters can do if they work according The first was the shunters' dispute in the to railway regulations. They can say, "No south yard at Townsville. I have a very hitting up at night" and various other things high regard for the shunters in the railway that the regulations strictly forbid. So they service. The hon. member for Belyando paid worked in accordance with regulations. For a well-merited tribute to the fettlers, the quite some time all shunting in the south yard bridge labourers, the bridge carpenters and was virtually paralysed. It was taking trains all those who work out in the sun and in the eight and nine hours to get in from Stuart, a far-flung outposts of the railway service of distance of six miles. Thousands of tons of the State; but I am sure the hon. member western loading were held up in the south yard for Mackay will agree with me, as the hon. alone. All this time the railway administration member for Keppel would if he were here, was adopting the attitude of, ''Say 'No' if the when I say that there are many jobs in the railwaymen ask for anything, just as was done railway service that we would not like to in the good old Labour days. Say 'No' and do and the job above all that I would not let us hope that they will weaken." At one like to do is the job of shunter. stage someone entered the picture-! do not know who it was but probably the Minister Mr. Power: He takes his life in his hands -who sent a railway officer up to Townsville. every day. He was a man who had come uP through the ranks. a man who had had outside experience Mr. AIKENS: He takes his life in his in the person of Mr. Dinsmore. They also hands; he works in all weathers and he works sent a railway union official from Brisbane. at top pressure all the time. Moreover, he They went onto the job. saw the conditions works by night as well as by day. under which the men· had to work. and said, Mr. Baxtcr: With the worst monetary "These men are right. Thev should have got reward. right from the start the extra assistance asked for." They were .given the assi~tance. the Mr. AIKENS~ That may be so. There regulation strike ended. and again the business i> a case where, owing to the reorganisation of the Railway Department in Townsville of the signalling and the interlocking system went merrilv on. But look at all the revenue in the big shunting yard in Townsville known that wA~ lost! Look at the goodwill that was as the south yard-and I will make this as lost while that dispute was in progress! I little technical as I can-they decided they do not want to emharr~~s the Mini~ter hut would take all the interlocking gear out of I would not mind betting that while that the shunting yard and have the points manu­ di~Pute wAs on he was inuncl,.ted with ally operated. That is, the shunters had to tele<>rams from all sorts of crackpot road hold the points by hand. In a big shunting hAnliers in the area. particul,.rlv one from yard there is a foreman shunter, and in charge Inf'ham. asking for permission to run of each engine, a shunter-in-charge and a hundreds of ton~ of goods by road from shunter. It meant that if one man was holding Townsville to Ingham. the points the other shunter had to do the cutting off, the hitting up and attending to The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. the braking gear. In other words, one shunter member will not mention the subject of road had to do the Jot while the other was holding hauliers or road transport. Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 833

Mr. AIKENS: It is very difficult to deal answer to the hon. member. It occurs over with a railway holdup and not bring in other and over again. If we are going to have forms of transport that capitalise on every efficiency in the railway service let us immedi­ holdup in the railway system. ately get together this Advisory Committee and the men whose bread and butter depends Quite recently we had another dispute in on the continuation of railway transport. Let Townsville that almost paralysed the whole us get these men together with the railway of the northern railway system. I refer to administration officers so that they may clear the dispute in the diesel engine shed at away from the minds and brains of some of Townsville. When the diesels were being our administrative officers the cobwebs that repaired in the old shed-the old carpenter's have grown there for so long. shop in the north yard-and it was necessary to move the diesel engines into the repair shed There is another matter on which I wish to one of the shed enginemen would come from speak in a purely constructive sense-which is the loco shed, move the engine and then go something very unusual for me. Usually I back to his job in the locomotive running am destructive. I learn that there is to be shed. But, as the Minister said, when they introduced in the air a sardine service. finished Duggan's monument it was purely a Ninety-five persons are to be crowded into an steel skeleton silhouetted against the eastern Ansett A.N.A. plane. sky. When they finished it they called it Tom's monument or Chalk's monument. The Mr. Wordsworth: Hanging from the wings. general manager of Townsville, backed by the dogmatic Commissioner said that all diesel Mr. AIKENS: Hanging from the wings. locomotives kept in the shed were to be The people are complaining about terrible moved about for repairs and shunting by the conditions in tourist class travel, yet our fitters or electricians. The fitters, said, "Not old-fashioned mid-Victorian railway adminis­ on your life. The moving of a locomotive is trative heads forget that the railway service a driver's job. It was a driver's job when we is operating in the twentieth century. Per­ were in temporary quarters and it has to be a sonally they are very nice men, but I can driver's job now." Imbued with the idea smell old English lavender any time I go driven into them when the Labour Party was near them, the old English lavender of the in power that they must not give away to any mid-Victorian era. It is a wonder they do suggestion of improvement in working condi­ not wear muttonchop whiskers and brocaded tions, the general manager said that the loco­ clothes and give Latin quotations as in the motives for repair in the diesel shed were to early days of Queen Victoria, because that be moved by the fitters. The hon. member for is their mental attitude to the railways system. Mackay and the hon. memebr for Norman will be astonished to hear me say that the Mr. Davies: Whom are you referring to? diesel locomotives were being fly shunted by fitters. Mr. AIKENS: To nearly all of them, and if the hon. member was in the administrative Mr. Baxter: Against every regulation. section of the railway system he would be the worst or the most archaic of the lot. He Mr. AIKENS: Yes. Finally they said, is the most versatile member in this Chamber "No, we won't do it. Bring the locomotive enginemen down from the shed." Anybody -he is a failure at everything. who knows anything about big sheds knows The CHAIRMAN: Order! that there is a shedman moving engines under steam, a man qualified to drive, also a reliev­ Mr. AIKENS: I will not transgress your ing set, and sometimes a spare set of engine­ ruling, Mr. Taylor, but I ask your permission men in the shed. All they had to do was to to say that air transport is advertising .oxten­ walk down from their shed to the diesel shed sively, that road transport is advertising shift the diesel engine and walk back to th~ extensively, that sea transport is advertising locomotive shed. The general manager said extensively, but do we see an advertisement "No" and the Commissioner said "No" and in the papers or over the air or anywhere again the whole of the transport systerr{ was thrown into chaos. Finally, after the opposi­ else as to the virtues and advantages of tion transport vultures had perched on the railway transport? railway fence waiting to pick up the carcass, These goodwill officers could do much if after that had gone on for weeks and the they had the power to spend money on department had lost scores of thousands of advertising. I asked the Treasurer on one pounds of revenue and scores of thousands of occasion-! think when he was introducing pounds of goodwill, the men were given what his first Budget-"Are you going to do as they asked for in the first place. the Moore Government did because quite a lot of people will be disappointed if you Mr. Walsh: In spite of that you always do not?" and he used these words of wisdom voted with the Government. in his reply, "You cannot prune yourself Mr. AIKENS: I can remember only the out of a depression. You must spend your­ other night when I walked into the House and self out of a depression." So it is with the voted with the A.L.P. against the Government Railway Department. It is facing ir.tense the hon. member for Bundaberg and his competition. It cannot prune itself out of colleagues slunk out like dingoes in the ni!l:ht the position, but it can spend itself out of because they were not game to vote for the it, by advertisments setting out the virtues, Government or the A.L.P. That is an effective the real economic virtues of travel by rail. J959-2D 834 Supply [A~SEMBLY] Supply

The cost of an air trip from Townsvilk to newspapers, television, radio and evety Brisbane even in the sardine service is I medium to sell the railways to the people. think, £14. The cost of a first-class rail f~lre If you, Mr. Minister, do that and adopt the from Townsville to Brisbane plus sleeper is modern business approach of getting business, probably £7, £8, or £9. Many people will and if you take union officials in the railways say, "Yes, but if you travel by air you have into your confidence and form advisory ~,om­ not to pay for a sleeper or your meals in ·a mittees, you will hold and extend your busi­ buffet car." In order to combat that state­ ness. Then, if you do that, I do not think ment it is merely necessary to point out w you will stand up in this Chamber next year them that whether a person is in Brisbane and tell us that the Railway Department is ta_king a holi<;Iay ~fter a road trip or an ai1 still losing money. I do not think the Cem­ tnp or a tram tnp, he has to pay for his missioner will, in his next report, say that ~e';lls _and ~is accommodation. Consequently the number of train passengers is down. If It Is pomted out that the only thing a person saves in travelling by air is time, and (Time expired.) It costs mo?ey to save that time, he will weigh the financial pros and cons of travellinn Mr. HERBERT (Sherwood) (3.2 p.m.): I by air and travelling by rail. "' should like to express to the Minister and his officers the appreciation of the residents Mr. ~Vordsworth: A busy man never gets of Chelmer to Corinda for the new railway a rest If he travels by air. stations in that are£!. They are the best on the Ipswich line, the most modern in Aus­ M_r. AIKENS: I know that Members of tralia and a credit to any district. Before Parliament are allowed 16 single plane trip5 the Government came into office we faced a year, but, except during last year when the awful possibility of having stations of there was a serious illness in my family and the same style as that at Taringa. Now, I 'Yent backwards and forwards to To ... nsville we have modern brick railway stations, a qmte frequently. I do not use that right on credit to any community and particularly a more than half a dozen occasions a year, community that relies entirely on the rail­ because I prefer to travel by train where as ways for transport. the hon. member pointed out, I can 'get I want to speak on one very im_portant a rest. I prefer to travel in quietness and subject, the possibility of establishing a safety c<;n;nfort rat~er than have the sardine con­ section within the Queensland railways. It is ditions of air travel, whether first or tourist well known, to the shame of the previous class. God knows what the conditions will Government, that if an inspector from the be under the new Ansett-A.N.A. class. Department of Labour and Industry were I_ have told many people of these things. allowed onto railway property he would Qmte a few of them were amazed when I find more cases of breaches of the relevant told them, for instance, that the Australian rules and regulations than he could handle. taxpayer pays £16,000,000 a year to keep Of course it was said that as a Crown instru­ the airlines in existence. They have been mentality the railways were not beholden amazed when I pointed out to them and to these inspectors. The previous Govern­ demon~trated it with pencil and paper: that ment allowed industrial safety to get into a fam1ly can travel by "Sunlander" from such a deplorable condition that it would Townsville to Brisbane and in comfort and take more than a Government's term of S';!Ve £9 compared with the same trip by three years to remedy it. The Minister a1r_. I say to them, "Certainly you get to has improved the position mainly by making Bnsbane one day earlier and you have one sure that all new installations comply entirely d~y ~xtra ~n your holidays or in your business with the regulations laid down for outside tnp m Bnsbane, but is it worth £9 in hard employers. Given time he will be able to cash to have that extra day in Brisbane? bring the entire system to a proper standard. Is it worth £9 in hard cash to have that extr~ At present it would be beyond the resources day of business time in Brisbane? When of any one term o_f Government to rectify. they work it oc;f in pounds, shillings, and The Minister is seized with the importance pence, they S';!Y, Now that you have pointed of the problem and is doing everything pos­ 1t out to me m _that way, I do think it would sible within his power to solve it. be better financially to travel by train." The I should like to make another suggestion. Government do not advertise the railways. In other railway systems there are safety L~t them get out and tell the people all these sections and I should like to see them here. thmgs. Do not have goodwill officers going That does not mean that the railway service from person to person seeing them separately. has to allow inspectors from the Depart­ How many politicians, apart from myself ment of Labour and Industry onto railway would be elected if we only saw one perso~ property. A safety section could be some­ at a time? Advertise and tell the people thing within the department itself. The ythat you have to sell and what you believe sections are in operation in New South Wales m and what benefits will accrue to them if where they operate with considerable success. they support you. I say to the Minister If we had experts from the southern States for goodness sake clear away some of th~ to tutor one or two of our officers we could spiders and cobwebs among the administra­ initiate something similar here which would tive officers. As other businesses advertise result in a good deal of saving both in human so must the railways advertise. Use the suffering and money. Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 835

At the recent Industrial Safety Convention (b) The absence of a uniform approach in Brisbane, which members of the Labour to the problems of safety. In other words, Party avoided, a seminar session was con­ different sections adopted varying systems, ducted by Mr. J. G. Holdsworth, who is which led to problems of overlapping. safety engineer for the New South Wales (c) The failure of many controlling Railway Department. As a result of the dis­ officers to make maximum use of the facili­ cussions at that seminar, I gained a good ties available from the safety section. deal of knowledge of the problems associated Apparently, some of the men selected were with industrial safety. not the correct type for the job. I should like now to refer to many innova­ (d) The lack of appreciation by many tions introduced in New South Wales in the ju,inr sunervi'i"'o- oflicerq of their respon­ interests of industrial safety. The New sibility in matters affecting the safety of South Wales department's safety section was employees under their control. established in 1946 following a phenomenal (e) The failure to appreciate the effect increase in the percentage of injuries to staff accident-free production has on economy between 1940 and 1946. In February, 1946, and efficiency. in New South Wales, the injury rate was A sustained safety programme must become 1.95 per cent. That is a very high rate in an integral part of the railway administration an undertaking like the railways. The per­ in Queensland if improvement in the existing centage of injuries to staff improved from accident rate is to be effected. Such a pro­ 1948 to a minimum of 1.33 in November, gramme should be based on the elements of 1952. The rate then increased to 1.63 per a safety organisation as recommended by the cent. in May, 1956, and at present it stands National Safety Council of America. at 1.48 per cent. In other words, since the America, of course, is the most safety-con­ introduction of a safety programme in New scious nation in the world. It has the game South Wales railways, losses through injuries down to a fine art. It has drawn up seven have fallen by approximately .5 per cent. headings under which safety problems could be tackled. An analysis of the average number of staff employed, lost-time injuries, and the percen­ !Vi:r. Power: What are you quoting? tage of injuries to staff, gives an indication Mr. HERBERT: I am quoting some of the branches, and locations within them, material supplied by the safety section of the where the majority of accidents occur. Forty­ New South Wales department. It has been five per cent. of all lost-time injuries occur supplied by experts in the field and it is of in the mechanical branch, 27 per cent. in the particular interest in this State. No-one else way and works branch, 20 per ceRt. in the traffic branch, while the remaining 8 per has bothered to raise it here before. These are the recommendations of the National cent. are distributed between the other Safety Council of America- branches. The proportion of lost-time injuries sustained by employees in each 1. Management leadership. branch has been fairly consistent since the That means the assumption of responsibility introduction of detailed accident statistics in and declaration of policy by management. 1946. Unfortunately, we have not the same There is no point in trying to initiate any figures for Queensland, so that I cannot give safety campaign in the face of managerial hon. members a comparison. opposition of any sort. Any management that opposed safety control would be acting It is considered that the rapid reduction against its own interests as well as against in the accident rate during the period from those of the staff. 1946 to 1948 was due to the reaction of all 2. Assignment of responsibility. concerned to the Commissioner's directions, Management must hand over to certain per­ a number of which were issued, and to the sonnel-safety directors and supervisors and assistance rendered by officers of the safety safety committees-the job of looking after section in the elimination of potential hazards. industrial safety in the railways. It should The systematic investigation of accidents and be handled by an engineer with the necessary co-operation of the medical section also qualifications. assisted. From June, 1948, the downward trend became less pronounced, which is attri­ 3. Maintenance of safe working condi- buted to the consistent attention that had tions. been given to the prevention of accidents. That means inspections and engineering revisions and other procedures to make sure The increase in the accident rate over that any safety material provided is main­ recent years could be due to many indetermin­ tained. ate factors. Several causes were worked out, 4. The establishment of safety training. as follows:- Safety training is available in Queensland (a) The lessening of the enthusiasm dis­ but far better courses are available in the played by the staff in earlier years. When South. a scheme of this nature is introduced the 5. An accident record system. staff become very keen on it, but after That means an analysis of all the accidents, a while they become rather lax and lose working out where the heaviest incidence their enthusiasm. occurs and taking action to reduce it. 836 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

6. Medical and first-aid systems. These would include the preparation of draft That means adequate material, personnel and safety rules and regulations. treatment to be available for anyone unfor­ (c) The authority to appoint branch or tunate enough to get hurt. inter-branch committees to deal with par­ 7. The acceptance of personal respon­ ticular aspects of safety such as warning sibility by the employees. lights, protective equipment, or investiga­ tion into specific safety matters. After They have to be trained and their int;,rest in c:onsidering the committee reports, recom­ the training must be maintained. mendations would _ be submitted for In the railway service, if the personnel ~ e]Jproval. assured of the co-operation of managemen, (d) To consider the department's I am certain we will have the wholehearted responsibilities with respect to legislation co-operation of the unions in the campaign. designed for the safety of workers, and The recommendations have already been make appropriate recommendations. accepted by many Australian companies. Most of the ?igger industrial engineering works, Of course. that means in this State they B.H.P. m particular, go in for industrial would be asked to bring the standard up to safety in a big way. Australian Iron and the standard set for outside employers in Steel, General Motors-Holder and many similar industries. others have big industrial safety sections, and (e) To consider the departmental they have them for a number of reasons approach to accident statistics and make chief among which is the saving in time and recommendations to ensure conformity money and trained personnel, altogether apart with standard forms, as required. from the saving of human suffering, which is (f) To review all safety standards the important consideration. referred to the department by Standards I suggest that a safety council be estab­ Authorities and recommend on their adop­ lished within the Railway Department. This tion or otherwise. does not mean the employment of large (g) To review accident trends and make ~umbers of extra public servants although appropriate recommendations. It would probably mean the signing-on of at least one safety engineer. I suggest that the (h) To consider the introduction of addi­ safety council should comprise at least 12 tional forms of protective equipment and people and the following is the suggested con­ adjustments to existing facilities, and make stitution-first, a chairman fairly high up recommendations as considered appropriate. the ladder of seniority in the department. (i) To deal specifically with safety train­ but not the Commissioner himself as he has ing, education and the development of so much else to do. Certainly the chairman associated training aids. should be a man with sufficient seniority to (j) Minutes of all meetings to be pre­ be able to talk to the Commissioner on prob­ pared and published for the information lems that come under his notice. Others of all concerned. would be-a safety engineer; chief mechanical officer; two representatives from the mechani­ That system has been adopted in many rail­ cal side of the railways, one from the work­ way instrumentalities throughout the world. shops and another from the running and I think it should be adopted in Queensland mamtenance; one from the Ways and Works for the benefit of the employees in the Rail­ Branch; one from traffic; one from electrical· way Department. The Safety Section of the one from signals and telegraph; and one fro~ Association of American Railroads goes a st?res. That would be as large as the com­ lot further than any accepted system in mittee need be. Actually it is the size of Australia. In addition to those included in the committee in New South Wales and would the aforementioned terms of reference such probably be the best size for Queensland. items as highway crossing accidents, tres­ It would me~n the signing-on of only one passing, train accidents, train service acci­ extra man, With safety engineering qualifica­ dents, non-train accidents, home and off the tions. The remainder of the personnel would job safety are covered. Many of these come from the department. It should take things are covered in Queensland by other only a relatively small amount of their instrumentalities such as the Road Safety time. The department's safety engineer could Council and the Police Department. We be the head of this committee if he had suffi­ have already got a big enough problem with cient seniority in the railway service. The railway accidents within the service without following are the terms of reference accepted going as far as the American system. by many railway systems throughout the world- Many private organisations develop safety through committees operating at the various (a) To co-ordinate safety activities of levels of administration. For example. the branches; Broken Hill Pty. Ltd. has 43 committees (b) To consider all matters associated which meet weekly, fortnightly, or monthly, with occupational safety, referred to it by depending on the size of the department or the heads of branches, the safety engineer, level of administrative representation. They employees' safety committees, or other all pass on recommendations. At the pre­ sources and make approprate recommen­ sent time there is no system in the Queens­ dations. land Railways undet which employees can Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 837

have certain knowledge that something will that in his next year's Budget, the Minister be done about any safety recommendations will find sufficient money to develop the that are made. safety section in t!;le Queensland railways. At the lower levels of administration con­ Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (3.23 p.m.): It is sideration could be given to the inclusion of interesting to see the number of Government employee representation on the safety com­ members rising to speak. During the first mittee. It is absolutely essential that the year or so very few Government members men undertaking work on machines and so spoke after the Ministers introduced their on should be given an opportunity to have Estimates. It was interesting to hear the a say on the safety committee. This could speech delivered by the hon. member for be done by the selection of an employee Sherwood. I am sure the hon. member was safety representative at locations where they sincere. Judging from his remarks one would exist or other appropriate employee where imagine that the railways were continually such is not the case. This latter suggestion suffering accidents and that it was necessary conforms with one of the conclusions for continuous inquiry to be made into the reached at the recent safety conference held incidence of safety. There is some merit in in Canberra and generally adopted by other the case the hon. member presented for the industries. setting up of a safety council. I do think The principal items required to be covered that the Minister in the short time he has by controlling officers would be- been in control realises that the derailments and other factors concerned in the safety (a) Investigation of all accidents, both of railway men have been dtJe mainly to minor and lost time. deficiencies which require tremendous capital (b) Safety inspections. expenditure. The Minister made extravagant (c) Consideration of matters arising out claims in an endeavour to bolster up ~f accident investigation and safety inspec­ his own administration; he attempted to tions. belittle the administration of previous Labour (d) Consideration of safety suggestions Governments in regard to industrial matters submitted by safety officers, safety repre­ within the department. I am inclined to sentatives and other members of the staff. agree with the hon. member for Belyando (e) Conduct employee safety meetings, that the Minister would have spoken for a where applicable. long time if he had attempted to outline his errors and omissions during the brief (f) Submission of progress reports to period that he has been in charge. He the head of the Branch. attempted to criticise the Labour Government The investigation of all accidents would be for many things that are still wrong within carried out, not because of their effect on the department, but he did not mention the revenue or public relations but to find the great expenditure on new equipment and reason for them so that they could be avoided rolling stock and better conditions for in the future. The functions of the Safety employees carried out by the Labour Govern­ Section in the railways are mainly of an ment. One has to travel over the railwav advisory nature, and do not vary to any service to realise the conditions of manv extent to those applicable to any large railway men. On the western line many o.f industrial undertaking. The work of the them are still asked to use hurricane lamps Safety Section within the Queensland Rail­ in their wagons. The department and the ways would be of an advisory nature, but Minister have been asked to install power it would be a very important one. We never points near sidings, so that the men can had a system of this nature before. If it is use electricity, but those points have not confined entirely to the department, the been installed. The Minister speaks of some Commissioner and his officers will be able small omissions by the previous admivistra­ to regulate the flow of money to where it is tion but neglects to give his errors of most needed. It would be obvious from omission. the recommendations where the greatest He did not deal with the fact that yester­ dangers existed. It would bring the railways day 44 temporary employees engaged in the up to a standard which we require as a construction gang at Mayne were given responsible Government. It is a tremendous notices of dismissal, and that some two job and will take a long time. Fortunately weeks ago a further 25 men at Redbank the Minister has the vigour and enthusiasm were dismissed. This is happening at a time to attack it. and he has a staff which is when, according to the Minister, the railway capable of carrying out any job entrusted to service has to be modernised. We find that it. The Minister will have the co-operation construction gangs are being whittled down of the trade unions because they have been to the minimum under this Government. clamouring for this for .Years, but did not get Government co-operation in the past. The Minister paid a compliment to the Judging by the figures available, the problem Leader of the Opposition and the previous will take years to solve. It is fortunate that Administration for their foresight in placing the Minister assumed control of the depart­ orders for new equipment, diesel electric ment at a time when the workshops at Red­ locomotives, carriages and rolling stock, as bank were to be commenced in order to well as other equipment needed to improve ensure that they will be of a standard the service and so make it attractive to the acceptable in outside employment. I hope public. Many millions of pounds were spent 838 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply on modernisation by the previous Admin­ of travel, the one offering the greatest istration, yet we find from the Auditor­ facilities. They will naturally travel by General's report that under this Government air if they can. there has been a sudden and savage reduc­ Mr. Power: You speak about conductors tion in the expenditure on capital equipment. having no sleeping accommodation. Are The table appears on page 90. It is a sum­ they off duty? mary of expenditure on capital additions to rolling stock for the past two years, and Mr. LLOYD: No, they have to stay on since 1 July, 1945. These are the figures- the train overnight. There is no provision Total since for sleeping accommodation. Each conductor 1957-58 1958-59 1 July, 1945 has to occupy a compartment which is even £ £ £ worse than the broom cupboard spoken of Construction of by the hon. members for Mundingburra and Locomotives . 1,212,874 220,854 10,234,533 Burdekin. It is about 4 ft. 6 in. in length by Carriages and 2 ft. 6 in. wide having no facilities and only wagons 915,173 457,392 18,125,021 one seat. In many cases conductors have Rail motors 1,912 823,711 to stop on the train overnight and service up to seven and eight carriages. They start Hon. members will note the reduction in the work at half-past 4 in the morning to get construction of locomotives in the year through their duties by the time their trains 1958-1959, as well as the reduction in reach their destinations. They must have expenditure on the construction of carriages the train ready for the new conductor to and wagons. In addition no rail motors were take over. constructed in 1958-1959. The figures illustrate that the Minister is refraining from Mr. Power: Do you suggest that a con­ expenditure on modernisation of railway ductor on duty should have a bed for equiprnent. sleeping? The expenditure in 1957-1958 was purely Mr. LLOYD: I do not say that' they and simply for completion of orders placed should have a bed to sleep in but they should by the Labour Government, but what has be provided with decent conditions instead happened since then? Apparently no further of the poky little boxes that they have to orders have been placed for the purpose of occupy now. modernising the railway service so that it can compete successfully with road and air Mr. Chalk: I will reply to that. transport. Mr. LLOYD: The Minister will have a Tourist air travel has been mentioned. lot to which to reply. The Minister has That service will more than compete with boasted of the conditions he has offered to the railway service. I understand that the railwaymen. He has fallen down on the air fares will be very close to first class rail job. Apparently he is concentrating his fares. his attention on the south-east corner of Queensland and has not been outside Much was done to improve railway pas­ to see the conditions elsewhere. There senger accommodation by previous Labour is room for great improvement in the con­ Governments, and particularly by the Leader ditions of employment of railwaymen. of the Opposition when he was Minister for Transport. Further improvements are essen­ Mr. Chalk: Nobody denies that. You tial, to make it attractive to the public. The people got them into a mess and I have been service on the "Inlander" and "Sunlander" trying to get them out of it. has improved the service immeasurably but it Mr. LLOYD: The Minister made a song is not all that could be desired, although and dance about what should be done but that is not the fault of railway employees. let him implement all the things he said They are doing their utmost to give every should have been done instead of blaming possible service to passengers on those lines. the previous administration. He knows it There is a shortage of conductors. In many is impossible to remedy things in five cases, after leaving Brisbane, passengers are minutes. Many anomalies existed in the awakened at half-past 4 in the morning for service; many have been aggravated since a cup of tea. That is a service the people his government came into power. demand. There is no adequate accommoda­ tion on trains for conductors. They have Mr. Chalk: Whom are you condemning? no amenities whilst travelling. They have to occupy a small compartment containing Mr. LLOYD: I am condemning the only a seat and no sleeping accommodation. Minister. What is more, the department is forcing JVIr. Chalk: For the sins of your leader? conductors to pay for their own meals or take cut lunches with them. By and large Mr. LLOYD: Many have been aggravated the arrangements in regard to conductors by the Minister. There is a lot to be done; are unsatisfactory. If the department wants we have always recognised that. The Leader to attract the travelling public to the rail­ of the Opposition attempted to correct things ways it must provide amenities. Present and he is still highly thought of by railway­ air fares are close to railway charges, and men in Queensland for that. He was unable, people will adopt the most convenient method of course, to agree to all their requests. Supply [2z OCTOBER] Supply 839

Mr. Houston: They supported him in the The Auditor-General in his latest report by-election at Toowoomba. discloses that Railway Department expendi­ Mr. LLOYD: Yes, they supported him ture on those works has decreased. Railway solidly. finances are serious enough to warrant detailed and lengthy consideration. They From what the Minister said on railway certainly indicate a need for some alteration refreshment rooms, one would get the impres­ in the Commonwealth-State financial relation­ sion that he had saved the department ship. At page 86 of his report the Auditor­ £11,000 by leasing them to private enter­ General makes the startling disclosure that prise. He said also that the income from over the last decade accumulated railway the lessees was £3,000 a year, which meant deficitls have mounted to the substantial a total saving to the department of £14,000 figure of £34,707,017, and he sets out a a year. However, the figures in the Auditor­ statement showing the adverse effect of the General's report do not disclose anything like losses on Treasury finances. He gives two that. In any case, I point out that the prac­ sets of figures for the 10 years from 1949- tice of leasing railway refreshment rooms was 1950 to 1958-1959, one the result excluding started by a Labour Government. If the interest and the other the result including Minister refers to the Auditor-General's interest. The result excluding interest would report, he will find that it does not support have been a deficit in the 10 years of a little his claim. over £9,000,000 and the result including He has tried to bolster up his administra­ interest is a deficit of £34,707,017. tion of the department, but the figures in the Commissioner's report do not substantiate With such an impact of railway finances his claims. Although there has been some on the State's Budget, it is important to increase in the department's earnings, the convince the Commonwealth Government and greater part of it has come from the carriage the other States of the seriousness of Queens­ of minerals from Mt. Isa and livestock from land's railway problems. We have the second the North-west. In other words, the increase greatest length of line in the Commonwealth has come from traffic in the Northern and and the abnormal circumstance of having Central Divisions, both of which show an to carry goods long distances from remote excess of earnings over working expenses. areas to the ports. That has a savage impact In contrast, over the past five years the on finances, but no consideration has ever Southern Division has continued to show a been given to it. tremendous excess of working expenses over earnings. We return to the same old argument that The Minister, of course, has said that com­ the formula of the original financial agree· petition from road transport is more evident ment, making available to each State of the in the Southern Division than in the other Commonwealth over a 5-year averaging divisions. It is also true that frequently there period so much loan allocation, is completely is no back-loading for trains that travel to un,~atisfactory for Queensland's conditions. centres in the South-west. Victoria, with a shorter total line, has a fantastic turnover of passengers compared I intend to say something about the met­ with ours. Victoria's passenger journeys ropolitan railway service under a later Vote. number 167,405,000 against Queenslanc:·s The Minister has claimed successful admin­ 34,270,000. It is not hard to realise why our istration on his part, but both the number of costs are so high and our revenue so low. passengers carried by the railways and the The State should immediately press the Com­ tonnage of goods and minerals transported monwealth Government for a revision of have dropped since the last year of Labour's the formula under the financial agr~ement to administration. give us a greater share of the loan moneys to improve the railway system, to modernise Mr. Chalk: I said that this morning. it to give more efficient and faster passenger­ and goods-services and thus enable it to Mr. LLOYD: That bears out the Minister's assertion that something will have to be done. meet competition. Instead of an overall We agree entirely, but why make fantastic basis of loan allocation for public worb claims about successful administration when and the development of Queensland, there the Government have TJ.ot attracted goods should be a separate assessment of the vari· traffic back to the railways, which they ous items on a different formula-so much claimed to be able to do by devious means? for railway finance, State by State, so much for development work, State by State, and Let us face the facts soberly. The figures so on. If the Premier and the Minister for do not substantiate any of the Minister's Transport made representations to the Com­ arguments. He finds himself in a position monwealth Government along these lines, somewhat similar to that of Labour Govern­ they would be doing more to represent the ments years ago. Obviously it is impossible electors of Queensland than by making a to operate a railway system as a profitable vociferous speech on railway administration undertaking unless the Government are pre­ for an hour and a half as the Minister did. pared to modernise equipment, to spend Successful representations based on the sub­ money on new rolling-stock and reconstruct stantial arguments that could be used would lines for a faster turn round. All that should greatly benefit Queensland. That is one be done but it is not being done. method. Favourable consideration should be 840 Supply [ASSElVIBL Y] Supply given to a State like Queensland that pro­ been able to reduce working expenses but he duces 25 per cent. of the nation's export has not been able to keep the interest charge income. Consideration should be given to even static. I wonder if the people who the economic transport of goods from remote continually criticise the railways and its areas to the State's ports and harbours. In management take this factor into considera­ its present condition the Mt. Isa line not tion or are they interested enough to know only is unsafe for workers but the department or care? The people who work in the rail­ could not possibly operate it economically ways and manage the railways, including the with the continual derailments. These are Minister and the Commissioner, know just all matters to be considered when debating what the railways have to earn to satisfy the the railway estimates. The Minister would companies and the people who have invested have put up a much more constructive argu­ their money and who must get their interest ment had he refrained from his attempt to payments. It is not on account of the lack belittle his predecessor. of action on the part of railway employees that the railways are not able to pay their Mr. DONALD (Bremer) (3.47 p.m.): Invari­ way. It is refreshing to hear the change in ably when hon. members opposite were in the tune of the Minister and other hon. Opposition they accused the Government of members of the Government-to hear them the day of being negligent in not extending defending the railways instead of condemn­ the State's railway system. But now that ing them, as they did when they were sitting they are the Government, not only have they in Opposition. Members of the Opposition failed to construct any new lines but they will be as strong in their defence of the have decreased the mileage of track by 30 railway employees as they were when they miles. I am not going to criticise that fact were members of the Government. Those very strongly because I realise there may be employees, by their enthusiasm and loyalty justification for removing the line from have been able to turn out cheaper rolling bimbulah to Mt. Mulligan following the stock than outside firms could do. In answer closure of the State mine. Of course, it to a question asked by me the Minister re­ must be remembered that there is some talk vealed that the cost of carrying out the work that the old gold mines may recommence in outside industry was about twice as much working. The stock argument of the Premier as in the railway workshops. There again is when he was Leader of the Opposition was evidence of the ability of the men in the the Government's failure to extend the rail­ department to do a good job, and do it way system. Instead of increasing the cheaply too. The fall in the earnings from mileage of track the Government have reduced it. passenger traffic amounted to ~108,791: That is hard to understand, particularly m the Once again the Commissioner's report suburban areas. The drop in country areas reveals that the interest charge is one of the may be due to air competition on the long most crippling handicaps we have to over­ runs but it is hard to understand why the come. In one year's operations the Railway rail~ays are not at least able to maintain Department has to earn £3,667,814 so that its passenger traffic in the metropolitan area. the moneylenders can receive their pound It is no fault of the running staff and per­ of flesh. That is a huge amount that has to haps no fault of those managing_ the rail~ays. be taken into consideration when the Rail­ In this respect I stress the mconvemence way Department is condemned. For every caused to passengers who have to travel from mile a train runs 3s. 9;td. has to be found for Ipswich and adjacent stations to their places the people who have lent money to the of business or employment in Brisbane. Queensland Railways. Whether it be a pas­ Unlike the hon. member for Sherwood, I senger train, mixed train, or goods train, cannot say I am happy with the train ser­ the first charge on the railways goes to meet vice. I say that not because I want to say 3s. 9N. for every mile travelled to satisfy the it, but because it is the truth. I am merely rr..oneylenders who advanced the money, not expressing the wishes, desires and complaints to help the State develop but to make easy of the people who are by the nature of their money for themselves. That cannot be employment compelled to travel from justified. Hon. members opposite may reply, Ipswich and adjacent stations to Brisbane. "Should we repudiate?" Had the same The train runs late nearly every night. It wisdom been shown in the building of rail­ may leave Roma Street or Central on time ways in Queensland as was displayed by the but is late by the time it reaches Ipswich, A.L.P. Government led by Andrew Fisher on numerous occasions so late that the pas­ when the line was built from Port Augusta sengers are unable to catch the connecting to Kalgoorlie with no interest charge, our buses and as a consequence have to hire a railways would have been paid for and taxi or walk miles to North Ipswich and would now be paying handsomely. It is other places. The Minister's attention has gratifying to know that the earnings have been drawn to it on many occasions. In fact, risen by 8td. per train mile and expenses some months ago he met a deputation from have dropped to 4d. per train mile. That the combined executives of the Somerset, reflects the good management or at least Ipswich and Bremer A.L.P. branches. better business. But the interest charge has Although he promised that the position increased by !d. a mile. As a result of would be rectified, he has failed to overcome bountiful seasons which meant an increase it. I do not blame him, as it may be beyond in products to be carried the Minister has his capacity, and in saying that I do not Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply S±l imply that he has not sufficient ability. The railways, and it cannot be said that this is trouble may be caused by circumstances beyond the capabilities of our engineers. beyond his control. It is certainly not the Whilst we know that the failure to get fault of railway employees. £26,000,000 is holding up another railway project in Queensland, sufficient money should Traffic out of Brisbane, particularly at be found to electrify the suburban railways peak hours, has reached saturation point. system. Through the planning of the Leader of the Opposition and other Labour Ministers of If we proceed with electrification we will Transport, I hope the position will be relieved assist industries in Queensland, including the in the near future. Those plans have been coal-mining industry. It would assist, of followed by the present Government. course, the Australian steel industry and incidentally, there is no reason why we should For a moment I shall deal with train not have a steel industry in Queensland. The milages. Compared with the figures for the copper industry would also receive previous year steam-train milages for the assistance. year under review, are shown in the follow­ ing table:- The hon. member for Sherwood referred Miles to the new railway stations between Passenger 132,891 less Brisbane and Corinda. That was not Mixed 226,584 less the brain-child of the present Govern­ Goods 10,535 more ment: it was in the scheme of things brought into being by a Labour Government before It follows that the total number of steam­ their defeat in 1957. train miles during the year under review has If we could carry out the plans envisaged fallen by 348,940 compared with the by the present Leader of the Opposition the previous year. When the increase in diesel­ Queensland Railways would be on the right train miles is taken into consideration, the track. The stations are very pleasant, cer­ position is nothing less than alarming. tainly a big improvement on the old type of Diesel milage has increased, as shown in suburban station used by the public over the following table:- the years. My wish is that the Government Miles should proceed with the erection of more new Passenger 31,095 stations including some in the Ipswich area. Mixed 196,194 The Minister promised me some years ago Goods 564,208 that when quadruplication went as far as Bundamba he would remove the eyesore of Total 791,497 the Bundamba station which has not had much attention given to it since its erection It follows that much less coal is being used, and I know he will honour his promise. and the position is very serious indeed. There is much passenger and other tratfic through that station and it is one While progress is being made with the plan through which many visitors to our State initiated years ago for quadrup!ication of the pass in attending the Bundamba racecourse. suburban lines, electrification of suburban It is not a station of which we can be proud. lines has been neglected, if not forgotten. Whilst I might be tempted to stress the need for a new station at Ipswich I shall refrain Electrification should proceed simultan­ from doing so because the matter has a long eously with quadruplication. The department history but I remind hon. members that some is proceeding as quickly as possible with thousands of pounds work of work was quadruplication, but quadruplication will not carried out on it by a Labour Government give any relief to the coal mining industry. It prior to its defeat in 1929-- has lost revenue in recent years. The Railway Department used to be the biggest customer Mr. Chalk: And nothing has happened of coal in Queensland, but more coal is since. now used in the generation of electricity than by the Railway Department. By undertaking Mr. DONALD: The work still stands but, quadruplication and electrification simultan­ as the Minister said, nothing has happened eously we would be using Queensland since the work on this project was stopped materials. We have all the materials that are by the Anti-Labour Government that held required for electrification, abundant coal, office in 1929-1932 anc1 nothing has copper and steel. Quadrup!ication is essential, happened since a Governmmt of the same but the department should make provision for political colour took over the Treasury electrification. I know that some country benches. members have objected to it in the past. The level crossing over the loop line from They may change their tune now that they Bundamba to Redbank constituted a traffic are members of a Government. Quick trans­ hazard. It was overcome at the Redbank end port to the city does not react to the detri­ and I doubt whether many ptuple ever remem­ ment of country areas. To argue against that ber the dangerous spot at the bottom of the would be to argue against progress and what hill before the Six Mile Bridge. The Depart­ has been found necessary in nearly every ment of Main Roads did a good job in capital city of the world. If we want to raising the road and taking it over the line. relieve traffic congestion in our streets the Road travellers now would not know that only solution is the electrification of the the line is there. There is a big problem. 842 Supply [ASSEMBLY Supply however, at the Bundamba end which the have done nothing about honouring that people of Ipswich have been trying to solve promise. It is no good saying that the for years and I should be pleased if the Labour Party refused to do it while they Minister would give serious consideration to were in office. I repeat, one of the Govern­ the erection of adequate warning signs at ment's election promises was that immediately that end. The problem cannot be overcome in they were elected they would give railway the same way as at Redbank, but it will employees the same benefits as outside have to be solved. There are warning signs employees. That has not been done. During on the side of the road, but accidents still the term of the present Leader of the Opposi­ happen. "Stop" sign or boom gates on each tion as Minister for Transport he did make side of the loop-line would be some help in arrangements with the employees that gave reducing the number of accidents. certain sections a higher wage than similar The Minister said that his appeal to the workers outside. Employees in the building railway employees for co-operation was appre­ trades outside are very disappointed that they ciated by them, and that that has been cannot get the same rate as their railway proved by their attitude. Such appeals to counterparts. railway employees are not new. On more Mr. P. R. Smith: How long have they than one occasion I heard the Leader of the wanted to be under the Factories and Shops Opposition and the hon. member for Bunda­ Act? berg make similar appeals to them. I do not Mr. DONALD: It does not matter how think that the present Minister would have lor;g they have wanted to be under it. That is any more influence with railway men than not the question. The question is whether the either of those hon. members had when they Government are going to honour an election held the Transport portfolio. promise solmenly given to the electors of the Mr. Ewan: You'd be surprised! State. Perhaps the men would be justified in taking strike action to see that it was done. Mr. DONALD: I would be very surprised. However. I do not want to be led away In the brief time allotted to him this morning, from my point. I think the Leader of the Opposition gave I want to pay tribute to all those people in us plenty of proof that the railway men the railways service who devote so much of thought a good deal of Jack Duggan when their leisure time to ambulance work. I do he was Minister for Transport. not mean the Q.A.T.B. but rather the ambu­ I should like to let hon. members know lance classes set up and made available to the how much His Excellency the Governor was public free of charge, which have been the impressed with what P':'! saw at the Ipswich means of many men getting their St. John's Railway Workshops. Accompanied by the medal. Those classes are set up at every big Minister, the hon. member for Ipswich, the railway centre and the men have a very proud Mayor of Ipswich, and other prominent record, perhaps better than those in any other Ipswich people and myself he made a tour of State of the Commonwealth. They have inspection of the workshops and expressed brought honour to Queensland more than amazement at everything he saw, particularly once. both individually and as a team. the number of skilled workmen employed (Time expired.) and the quality and variety of their work. Mr. WORDSWORTH (Mulgrave) (4.12 The Minister laid great stress on the willing­ p.m.): I remember a little over 20 years ago ness of railway employees to co-operate with hearing a visitor from another State say that him after he made his appeal. I think that, the trouble with the Queensland railways was in return, some co-operation with the that they had only three speeds-slow, dead employees should be displayed by him. It slow, and stopped. That might have been so in is not right that a railway employee should those days, but, thanks to the efforts towards be refused leave to attend to union business. modernisation started by the former Minister The answer that the Minister gave to a for Transport and pursued with such vigour question by the hon. member for Keppel by the present Minister, the Queensland confirms that statement. The Labour Railways are now entering world class, or as Government at no time refused leave to an near as they can get to world class on the employee to engage in union business. 3 ft. 6 ins. gauge that our forefathers decided on. To the extent that that work has been Mr. Gair: Don't you think that the union done, all must be very proud of the efforts of should reimburse the employee? the Government. I am not going to be a yes-man or a Mr. DONALD: It is not a matter of pay­ member of any mutual admiration society ment, but of leave. The department should during this speech. I propose to offer some grant leave to railway employees who are criticism, which I think will be constructive. delegates to union conferences or who have I do not say that the targets of my criticism to attend to other union business. arose through the actions of the present During the 1957 election campaign the Government, but they do hold the railways Government promised that if they were back in the competitve world of transport elected they would immediately bring rail­ today. way workers under the protection of the The hon. member for Mundingburra hit the Factories and Shops Act. Although they have nail on the head when he said that the rail­ been in office for more than two years they ways, with goods to sell in the face of such Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 813 keen competition, should embark on some My friends on the Opposition benches have sort of advertising campaign. There is plenty said quite rightly that the previous Govern­ of precedent for it. All other forms of ment were responsible for the modernisation transport expend a considerable amount of of the railways by the introduction of diesel­ money and energy in advertising their wares. driven and air-conditoned trains. I acknow­ Railways in other parts of the world do so. ledge that. Anyone would be a fool who did The Canadian Pacific Railway is one example. not. That policy has been carried on. But It advertises all over the world what it has to whoever was responsible for the design of the sell. But first of all the railways must have air-conditioned trains, to my mind, was guilty the goods to deliver. We have some very of a very serious omission in regard to safe good trains in Queensland. I refer particu­ travelling. Some years ago a very serious larly to the air-conditioned trains, but I am railway accident occurred at Traveston, near going to criticise the running of them to some Gympie, in which many people were killed. extent. I travel on them a great deal and Shortly after that a locomotive engineer think far too much time is wasted in stops named Neild patented a device called Neild's between Cairns and Brisbane and return. The patent. South-bound train seems to pick up time and Mr. Aikens: It was more trouble than it arrive in Brisbane on time at the end of its was worth. slightly more than 1,000 mile journey but the reverse usually applies on the trip North. Mr. WORDSWORTH: I know that it had Unless it has changed in the last few weeks its faults but it did provide for safety. It very rarely does the mail train arrive in consisted of a tripping gear under each car­ Cairns on time. The trouble with Queensland riage so designed that if the carriage left the trains seems to be that they stop too often rails the gear would apply the Westinghouse for too long. In other States, other than at brake. That patent was apparently removed major stations, the trains stop for only a from the air-conditioned train. Only a few couple of minutes at a time; but once they months ago my wife was travelling on a train stop in Queensland it is rarely less than six when there was an accident and the Railway minutes before they get under way again. Department was lucky that there were not This happens even in the wildnerness where many deaths by the derailment of the Sun­ there is no crossing of trains. Perhaps the lander just south of Innisfail. It did not driver has to get his own staff but the train get any publicity in Brisbane, but it was seems to stop much too long. Not more than very close to a tragic derailment. On this a month ago I was on a train that left occasion it had been raining for months and Brisbane on time. We were an hour late into the rails had sunk and the leading luggage Bundaberg, an hour and a-quarter late into van, I understand, left the road and continued Rockhampton but time was picked up between that way for some distance. I understand Bowen and Townsville and we arrived in that in the case of steam locomotives when Townsville on time. But again another a carriage leaves the rails the rough pulling quarter of an hour was lost in the Townsville makes it known to the driver, but that does station because of the antiquated method of not apply to the diesel locomotive. In this unloading parcels and goods. Attention should case the Westinghouse brake hose broke be given to expediting the loading and unload­ before it got to the bridge and that is when ing of these trains. They are not merely the train stopped. If it had gone further passenger trains, they carry parcels and half-a-dozen carriages would have gone over v~rious goods. The train I am talking about a bridge into the water. It may not have p!c~ed up two tons of beans in Rockhampton. been wise to omit the safety device in Trams should be got away on time and kept designing the air-conditioned train. on time by cutting down the number of stops Mr. Aikens: If there was a Nield patent on and time of stopping right through to Cairns. it the chances are it would not have worked. The time-table for the northern train is quite satisfactory. but the train south, particu­ Mr. WORDSWORTH: I have been on larly between Cmrns and Townsville, runs to trains when it has worked. a very awkward time-table. The train leaves Mr. Aikens: They work when you don't Cairns at mid-day. The railway refreshment want them to work and they don't work rooms do not pay. One of the reasons when you want them to work. probably is that people do not like having a meal before mid-day, there­ M1·. WORDSWORTH: Now the hon. mem­ fore they do not have lunch before ber has made his speech I shall continue with they leave. If the train left an hour mine. Getting back to the selling of the later they would use the railway refreshment services of the department it would be a great rooms. By minimising the number of stops adYantage if people could make a reservation and the time of stops the train could arrive in without having to give two months' notice Brisbane at the same time, if it has to arrive as is the case now. If that was altered the at the very inconvenient hour of 6 a.m. Railway Department would get more passen­ Lunch is served at Tully at half-past three gers on long-distance runs. There is also and the evening meal at Townsville at half­ room for improvement in the method of ~ast eight. It seems to me to be a stupid advertising adopted by the department. It ttme-table that the Government inherited. It would also be of advantage if they employed was a better time-table before the previous an advertising man to do the work. The Government altered it. Undoubtedly the rail­ railway advertising that I have seen lacks the ways are losing money because of it. first principle of advertising-to be attrac- 844 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply tive enough to be read. It is usually in small frequently, but even between stations they print without a special heading or any spaces. are slow and uncomfortable, and the passen­ One of the troubles today with busy execu­ gers have to wear raincoats in wet weather. tives and business managers and parliamen­ I assume that the position in the Cairgs, tarians is that they never get enough time Mnlgrave and Babinda districts is the same for relaxation. They are going from A to as that in other country areas. B, they get in an aeroplane, they are busy I agree with the statement of the hon. mem­ sorting out their papers and when they reach ber for Bremer on the need to undertake elec­ their destination they go straight to the job. trification. Much suburban traffic is probably Is it any wonder that there is a high death lost in Brisbane, not so much because of rate from heart failure and strokes. The the slow speed of trains or the fact that they Railway Department have something to sell run late at times, but because of dirty in restful air-conditioned travel. conditions. I can well understand that a I have spoken up to now about the good well-dressed woman, a woman in light cloth­ service of the Queensland Railways with ing, would not wan! tq travel from Central air-conditioned trains, but now I turn to to Shorncliffe or elsewhere on the suburban the bad service. The Commissioner in his line, knowing that she would be immediately report expresses concern about the reduction showered with coal dust. As soon as the in passengers, suburban and otherwise, money and facilities are available, I hope the and gives reasons for it. They may or Minister will see that the department under­ may not be right. The loss in my opinion takes electrification of the Brisbane suburban is mainly due to the fact that suburban railways. I do not subscribe to the country passenger equipment is antiquated on modern bumpkin idea of everything for the country standards. and nothing for the city. The service as a In my electorate suburban rail motors whole has to be modernised throughout run from Cairns and Gordonvale to Aloomba Queensland, and the sooner the suburban and once a day from Cairns to Tully and service of Brisbane is electrified the sooner return. The Tully rail motor service was the department will recapture passenger started about 26 years ago. At that time traffic. I lived in Cairns and worked at Gordonvale, I shall now deal with the longest paddock and travelled daily on that rail motor. It in Queensland, the enclosed railway area used to leave Cairns at 7 a.m. I forget the from Brisbane to Cairns, 1,040 miles of time it reached Tully, but today it leaves fenced line with an average land width of 2 Cairns half-an-hour earlier and gets to chains. I have often wondered why the Tully half-an-hour later than in those days. department has not done something with the If that is progress, I am a Dutchman. The fertile portion of that land in order to get rail motors were new in the days of which additional revenue. The fenced portion is a I speak but the same motors are still being liability as it costs much money annually used on that run. In any private business to clear of rubbish. For many hundreds they would have been written off and of :miles one could not grow anything scrapped years ago. wonhwhile, particularly in some parts Mr. Chalk: Do you know that 10 new rail of the Central portion because of the climate and unsuitability of the soil. motors have been ordered? The line, however, runs through many fer­ Mr. WORDSWORTH: Yes, but I am tile portions and I refer particularly to the speaking of the reason for the loss in area between Gordonvale and Innisfail, passenger traffic. country which grew forest scrub. The Minister should inquire into the possibility of Mr. Byrne: You are lucky to get there at planting a line or two of trees to be of use to times. the State in say 15 or 20 years' time. Alterna­ tively he could adopt a policy we had in Mr. WORDSWORTH: I agree. I know operation but which has been waived, of that 10 new units have been ordered, and I leasing a portion to farmers for grazing hope they will be similar to the one used purposes. There is nothing new about the in the Brisbane Valley. The passenger traffic idea. A passenger travelling from Melbourne may then be recaptured by the department. to Adelaide by the Adelaide Express can The Cairns-Gordonvale and Aloomba rail see fertile farms at Bacchus Marsh growing motors are the original equipment for that potatoes and other crops inside the railway run. One of them is R.M. 25. The drivers fence. The country outside the line has been refer to them as "bombs." They must leased to people, and use is made of this be 30 years old. They rattle and flap along fenced portion that I refer to. In Queensland the line, and the public do not like to the line is fenced for railway safety and at travel in them. Even the school-children dis­ present is growing nothing but rubbish. It like travelling in them. Although the school­ must cost the railways thousands of pounds a children are provided with a free pass, they year to clean. can be seen on the roadside thumbing rides instead of using the rail motors. That is one Having made my comments and some reason for loss of traffic. By car the journey criticism I say that the railway system is not from Cairns to Gordonvale takes about 20 the antiquated form of transport that many minutes or a little longer, compared with people think it is. If the motor transport the rail motor trip of an hour. They stop people had to provide and maintain the Suppty l22 OCTOBER] Supply 845 roads and if the airway companies had to Kuranda and Mareeba using pump trolleys. pay the whole cost to the Department of Diesel-powered trains are now using that Civil Aviation for aerodromes, neither of section of the line and I ask the Minister to those forms of transport could compete_ give serious consideration to substituting with the railways. If other forms of trans­ section cars for pump trolleys. The cost port were to allow concessions to primary would not be great, and the section cars producers for the carriage of foodstuffs and would be greatly appreciated. They are other essentials for human consumption they much safer than pump trolleys, because they would not be able to compete with the rail­ can be speeded up or easily taken off the ways_ The railways have done a good job line if a train is approaching. We have had a but it is up to the present Administration to few accidents on the Kuranda Range, but not do a better one by making the service more of much importance. The section cars attractive to the people. with Fairmont motors are what the gangs like. Mr. ADAIR (Cook) (4.34 p.m.):I know that the Minister occupies one of the most Men working in flying gangs with their difficult portfolios in the Cabinet, and I home stations at Mareeba or Cairns have to sympathise with him because there is a lot seek accommodation which can be very costly. to be done in the Department. The previous If the members of the flying gangs could live Minister did an excellent job and I know in railway quarters, as they did a few years that the present occupant will endeavour to ago, they could keep their equipment with do his best. I compliment the Commissioner, Mr. Moriarty, on the excellent work he is them. doing; I do not believe anyone could do I am told that the eating and cooking better. Mr. Neeson is a very capable and utensils handed out by the Railway Depart­ co-operative cfficer, who greets everyone ment are of inferior quality. I do not, with the utmost courtesy. of course, blame the present Government for The hon. member for Mulgrave thought that. However, the tin dishes rust after that the train from Cairns to Brisbane could being used three or four times, and if a be speeded up. better class of utensil could be issued it would mean a great deal to them. I agree. I do not like to see anybody inconvenienced, but the "Sunlander" should Mr. Windsor: Stainless steel? not have to pull up at many small stations on the run, particularly between Cairns and Mr. ADAIR: Stainless steel would be Townsvil!e. They are already served by expensive. rail motors and goods trains, and the time taken on the long journey from Cairns to Mr. Windsor: What about gold? That Brisbane could be reduced by at least four would be cheaper. hours. In my opinion, the most important men in Mr. ADAIR: The hon. member is being the Railway Service are those in the fettling, absurd. All I say is that the present bridge, and flying gangs in my area and the utensils are unsatisfactory and do not last Tablelands area. They are out in all long. Many men bring their own. weathers and they do an excellent job. In the summer months, which in the North Mr. Windsor: What about Shelley china? extend from October to March, they work without any protection from a very hot sun. Mr. ADAIR: The hon. member is being Many of them have been working in the ridiculous. The men live out there under area for 30 or 40 years. Men who have hard conditions and all they want is some­ served long periods in fettling gangs, thing a little better than they have now. bridge gangs, flying gangs, or similar gangs, should be given the option of a Mr. Aikens: You would expect that transfer into the workshops at either Cairns facetiousness from a city slicker, wouldn't or Mareeba. Only recently I spoke to a gang you? of about 12 men who were working on the line near Cairns. One of them had skin Mr. ADAIR: I could expect it from the cancers up his arm and round his neck. hon. member for Fortitude Valley because When I asked him if he would not be better he would not know anything about the con­ off in the workshops in Cairns, he said that ditions these men live under. he had not thooght of it but would be very pleased if I could help him to get there. Sun As the Minister admitted, there is a short­ cancers can be very serious. If they are age of cattle wagons. Many stations that not attended to they eventually become have to get their cattle down to the markets incurable. in Mareeba from Einasleigh and other parts Some time ago I asked the previous of the back country are allotted cattle wagons Minister to provide fettling gangs on the which is not enough for the number of cattle Kuranda Range Line with Fairmont section to be transported. cars instead of pump trolleys. I was suc­ cessful in getting two section cars, but there Mr. Gilmore: They would think they were are still three gangs working between millionaires if they got 8 or 10 wagons. 846 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. ADAIR: That is so. The cattle lose Mr. ADAIR: No, ironwood and ironbark a lot of weight while awaiting the arrival are completely different timbers. Many hun­ of the wagons. They have no suitable holding dreds of ironwood sleepers over 50 years yards. I realise that the department has old are still as solid as the day they were insufficient wagons to give the graziers the laid. The trouble with any sleeper is that number they require. once it wears by vibration around the dog spike rust sets in, and nothing can be done Mr. Chalk: As I explained this morning about it. The sleeper then becomes of little one of the difficulties is the limited number value. There are large stands of this timber of wagons that can be hauled by one train. at Laura. The ironwood sleeper is superior. Mr. ADAIR: Unless the supply of wagons Mr. Challi: The Railway Department is speeded up road-trains will be taking over. engineers are aware of that. Mr. Chalk: We have already taken steps Mr. ADAIR: There are large stands in by ordering two more diesel locomotives for that area and I think the Government should, that purpose. if possible, let contracts for the cutting of these because they are better than cement or Mr. ADAIR: I know that one diesel is concrete sleepers. operating now on the Kuranda range. It Mr. Wordswortb: There are some on the brings down what used to be three trainloads Laura line which have been there for 60 in the one load. years. Mr. Aikens: Where do you get most of Mr. AD AIR: Yes, and they are still as your cattle from? Mungana? good as the day they were put in. Mr. ADAIR: Mungana. All up that line Much time would be saved if the trains a lot of cattle are reared. They have to be did not stop at little staff stations, thus allow­ brought to the saleyards in Mareeba and the ing more time at the refreshment rooms. butchers in Cairns. Master butchers in I am sure that half the people who get out Cairns have complained that they are told of the carriages do not get served at Rolling­ trains will arrive at 3 a.m. but after having stone. There are many refreshment rooms, their men up from 1 o'clock to wait for the lessees of which apparently cannot afford trains, they probably do not arrive until 8 to employ sufficient labour to serve the o'clock, 9 o'clock, or mid-day. passengers quickly. There is also room for improvement in the bars at the refreshment Mr. Aikens: How far do the diesels go? rooms. I am one who has a few drinks and you cannot get a decent drink of beer in a Mr. ADAIR: To Kuranda. railway bar. The beer is poured out into jugs and then poured into the glasses and it is Mr. Aikens: Not Mareeba? quite flat. Much could be done to improve the cafes and bars in the refreshment rooms. Mr. ADAIR: No. I ask the Minister to give consideration to that important Hon. V. C. GAIR (South Brisbane) (4.54 matter. The haulage of cattle by road­ p.m.): I am pleased to have the opportunity trains will do a lot of harm to the depart­ to say a few words on the Railway Estimates. ment. The road-trains up there now will I proudly claim to be a graduate of the Rail­ carry up to 90 head of cattle. They move way Department. Hon. members may have very fast, too. read recently that I was a 6th-class unclassi­ fied clerk and that I graduated to the position I come now to one of the shortest railway of Premier. The fact that I was an unclassi­ lines in Queensland-from Cooktown to fied clerk was not due to any lack of desire Laura. Quite a few men are employed on on my part to reach a higher position, it was that line. For every mile of line there is a due to the limited avenues of promotion in bridge. The men employed keeping the line the service. When I entered politics I did not open are doing a very good job. The rail fail to win recognition even in a Labour motor goes from Cooktown to Laura on Caucus, despite the many factors that operate Wednesday of each week. With the many there. I recall that I was told very early I tourists in the area at present the rail motor would have to join the A.W.U. before l is full every Wednesday. I ask the Minister would have any chance of becoming a Cabinet that any contracts let for timber for that Minister. line be given to local people. I know that has been done so far. Timber for transoms Mr. Aikens: Who told you that? and sleepers has been supplied by local men. I hope that the department will continue to Mr. GAIR: I was told that on many sides. give them preference. However, I succeeded in getting the recogni­ tion of my colleagues in the Parliamentary Towards the top of Cape York Peninsula Labour Party and in being elected as a there are large stands of ironwood timber Cabinet Minister. It is hard to get a better timber for sleepers: I have never been ashamed of the fact that I was a clerk in the Railway Department. I Mr. Aikens: Is that the same as ironbark? gave 15 years of my life to that service, and Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 847

I left the department with an unblemished did that with confidence and a great deal of record. That is more than the hon. member, pleasure because I do not know of any man with all his usual humility, can say. in the long years I was in the department or Notwithstanding the increasing number of since who has been more dedicated to his my defamers, I did not leave the Railway work than the Commissioner, Mr. Moriarty. Department because of any defalcations or In him we have a man who is conscious of misdemeanours. I resigned from the depart­ what is required in the Queensland railways. met to contest an election and succeeded in He is an excellent trains man, an essen­ unseating the Attorney-General of the day in tial qualification for his job. He has the 1932 elections. I say those things for the not spent all his time entirely on benefit of those who get down in the gutter, the clerical side. He was in charge or use so much of their time in character of trains control in Brisbane, general assassination. manager in several divisions, and in all places in which he has given service he has acquit­ The department has been the butt of much ted himself with distinction. I say, when criticism, but it invariably comes from people speaking of him, that he is married to the without any understanding of the railway job. He was born of a railway family, and system. With all human instruments, or lived his life in the railway, and continues to human organisations, it is not perfect; it has give service to the public of Queensland, its defects and weaknesses, but most of them, which, I am sorry to say, they are not con­ 1 have no doubt, are due to the human scious of, and, in many cases, not apprecia­ element, as they are in all such organisa­ tive of. I do not know of any public officer tions. who gives more assiduous and devoted Mr. Aikens: Like a political party-it is service in the discharge of his duties only as good as the man at the top. than the present occupant of the office. I remember when he was originally appointed. Mr. GAIR: Up to a point, yes, but that Some people thought that we should have brings me to this observation: We have gone overseas or to some other State for our had good men at the top but they have not Railway Commissioner. I did not see the always had the support or the co-operation wisdom of that just to be able to say "We of men at the bottom. I will go on got this man from Scotland," or "We got to prove what I am endeavouring to somebody from New Zealand." I have convey. The Railway Department as always believed that we should encourage a transport organisation depends on every our own employees to rise to the top posi­ individual employee for complete and tions. When positions become vacant, we satisfactory service to the public. It should not hesitate to appoint our own is not much use having an efficient employees provided they are qualified. In the Commissioner or Secretary, or even an case of the Commissioner, there was no efficient Station-master if you have an doubt about his qualifications. We who have uncouth porter or uncouth conductor. They been responsible for the appointment of the will destroy all the efficiency or the good Commissioner and the renewal of his appoint­ effect created by those at the top. That is ment had the utmost confidence in him, what I am trying to convey. In any trans­ despite the carping critics. The present port system or other enterprise dealing with Commissioner, in association with Mr. the public, it is imperative that those hand­ Lingard, another excellent and efficient ling the public or coming in contact with servant of the people who gives unlimited the public should have the proper tempera­ time to his job. The same may be said ment and should recognise the need to give of Mr. Lee, and many other railway courteous service. In saying that, I am not officers, in fact it can be said of railway unmindful of just how impossible the travel­ men generally. I have always felt ling public can be, how exacting, how exas­ that the percentage of conscientious railway­ perating and how irritating some travellers men is high; but there are some, of course, can be, but the fact remains, and I am who will destroy the prestige of the railways speaking generally, that those handling the by their indifference, lackadaisical manner and public should be men of the proper tempera­ bad approach to the travelling public. They ment and demeanour, men who are prepared are concerned only about knocking off and to give service. Nothing impresses more filling in time. Fortunately they represent unfavourably than contact with someone who only a small percentage of the employees. I is uncouth or rude, discourteous or impatient. have often said that there are weeds in the I am very pleased to see that the Commis­ best-kept gardens, and in a large organisa­ sioner is still occupying his position, notwith­ tion like the railways we must expect to have standing all the threats and wishes for his some of these people. But they are of no decapitation expressed here on the change of use to us. Although the railways are run by Government. Criticism of the railways comes the Government, there is no room in any from people with little knowledge of them. I have had a very close association with the Government department for people who will present Commissioner, and I say, not because not pull their weight. They would not be he is sitting in the lobby-I would say it tolerated by T.A.A. or Ansett-A.N.A., or any anywhere and I have said it before-that I other people who compete with the railways, was responsible before the change of Govern­ and there is no reason why the railways ment for the renewal of his appointment. I should have to carry them. 848 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Aikens: If passengers were packed Chamber they held the view that the railways into trains as they are into planes, there should pay. Now that they are the Govern­ would be a squeal to high heaven. ment, the railways are not expected to pay. How can a railway system, which is a Mr. GAIR: There are many things that the common carrier and a public utility, be airlines can get away with that the railways expected to pay in competition with people cannot. Frequently I have had to sit at who are engaged in the business for a profit? airports waiting for late planes and, as an If we ran our railways like Finney Isles or any ex-railway man, I have said very loudly, "If similar firms we would close down every non­ this happened in the railways there would paying line, particularly branch lines. What be 40 letters in the newspapers tomorrow." would the great critics of the railway system, But because it is T.A.A. or Ansett-A.N.A., especially in country centres, say about that? no-one complains. They use road transport until the floods come and then they ask, "Where are the railways Mr. P. R. Smith: There are other factors to carry our goods?" They cannot get over to be taken into consideration. the roads because of the wet. The railways as a public utility have been required to Mr. GAIR: The hon. member for Windsor develop the State and to do it at a great rushes in in defence of the air services. cost, but that has not spared them the Mr. Aikens: He is a big shareholder in criticism of people who want them to give A.N.A. service irrespective of cost and at the same time expect them to pay. Mr. GAIR: I do not know whether he is, but frequently I am surprised when I find I recollect the time when I was a young who the big shareholders among politicians man in the railways and New South Wales are. It might be very revealing if we all brought into the railway service a man named tabled our share holdings and investments. Cleary who had been a top executive of a We would then learn where the capitalists brewery. really are. They do not all belong to any Mr. Ramsden: He did a very good job. one political party. The fact remains that the same difficulties as confront air services Mr. GAIR: I do not know whether the also face the railways. hon. member for Merthyr was in Australia at the time or whether he is depending on Mr. P. R. Smith: Not to the same extent. something he has read. Mr. Cleary was an absolute failure in the railways in New Mr. GAIR: Of course they do. Some South Wales. excuse is always presented for the late arrival or departure of a plane, but everyone is An Honourable Member: He was in the full of complaints whenever a train is running D.T's. most of the time. late. Frequently when I have been travelling on a train I have heard complaints about the Mr. GAIR: I will not say that, but running fact that it is running late, but the people a brewery is far different from running rail­ who have complained would have not the ways. He was brought into the department, slightest idea of what was involved. where he did not have a monopoly, in the days when road transport was showing its Mr. P. R. Smith: Would you say that a head in a big way. All his business acumen train is as dependent upon the weather as a and business capacity did not support him, plane? because he did not know railways. I sub­ scribe to the belief that to do a railway Mr. GAIR: Trains may not be affected as job well you have to grow up with the rail­ much as planes by the weather, but that is ways and get to know them. There are many not the only reason for the late running of phases that a newcomer knows little or noth­ planes. ing about. Mr. P. R. Smith: It is a big reason. Mr. P. R. Smith: The Minister is doing all right for someone who has just come into Mr. GAIR: Trains can be delayed by floods, it recently. washouts, and derailments, but that is never taken into account. Air travellers are pre­ Mr. GAIR: The hon. member for Windsor pared to put up with delays-they will sit at chirps up. He will not be here very an airport for hours without complaint-but long, as I understand he is not very railway travellers who are waiting for a late satisfied with the redistribution but time train never stop moaning and groaning. As will tell. I sit back and listen and smile it was in the beginning is now and ever shall as an onlooker in the game of politics be, and the general attitude towards the rail­ today. I heard the Minister saying what he ways is one of criticism; nothing is right, had done and making charges about the everything is wrong. People say, "Why don't previous administration, but invariably he they bring in a business executive to run the said, "Of course, this was more or less under railways? Let them be run on business way when I took over and it was just a lines." It was rather refreshing to hear the question of getting enough money to imple­ hon. member for Merthyr say a few days ment it and complete the job. We would ago that the Railways should not be expected have done more had we got the money." to pay. When his Party sat on this side of the That is the pulse of the matter. In the Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 849 debate on the Bill to amend the Stamp Acts, collected these fees morally obliged to spend the hon. member for Southport, I think it some of that money in representing their was, said, "The only reason we are doing members at the various conferences without this is that we want revenue." If that is so, relying on the Government to spoon-feed that was the most honest statement made. them every time a conference or any other They were increasing the tax because they talk takes place? They can find money to wanted revenue. The same applies to the travel to Red China and other places railways. There is a limited amount of under Communist control. They can money available and within that limit they send delegates and make their contribu­ have to do as much as possible. tion to the Australian-New Zealand Peace :1\-ir. Ewan: We have not increased rail and Disarmament Conference, another freights and fares. Communist set-up. They can always find money for these things but not for delegates Mr. GAIR: The hon. member for Roma to attend conferences to look after the very unfortunately says they have not interests of their members from whom they increased the rail freights and fares. Let him have collected fees. What do they do with be calm and patient. The time is not far their fees? Other than pay their officials and off. As one who has been a Treasurer and a run around in big cars they give their mem­ Premier I can see it starkly facing them. bers nothing in return. It has been stalled off after a great battle in Cabinet. The hon. member knows that (Time expired.) better than I do. They have no way of avoiding it. His statement, of course, is Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough) (5 .19 p.m.): that of an inexperienced parliamentarian. I was wondering whether the absence of the Had he had Cabinet rank and responsibility Minister for Health and Home Affairs indi­ he would not have come into that one. There cates anything. We are debating the Estimates is nothing surer than that increased freights and fares will come. of the Railway Department and when he was in Opposition the hon. member for Y eronga Mr. Aikens: Why didn't your Government said, "If I could not run the railways at a give the protection to the railway employees profit I would get out." This is the Govern­ that the present Government have given? ment's third year of office and the railways are not being run at a profit. I was wonder­ Mr. GAIR: My friend from Mundingburra ing whether the Minister for Health and is concerned only about small things. I am Home Affairs had kept his word. The hon. trying to deal with the railways as a big member for Mt. Coot-tha previously said transport organisation that has developed the about the Labour Government, "The Govern­ State, an organisation that is indispensable to ment should appoint a commission of five or the future development of Queensland. I am seven businessmen to run the railways," concerned about the preservation of a stand­ clearly showing a lack of confidence in the ard of service that can be given only by the present Commissioner. No doubt he was of Government, a service that we cannot expect the same opinion as the hon. member for and do not get from private enterprise unless Tablelands. However, other opinion has pre­ we are prepared to pay exorbitantly for it. vailed in the Government, and the Commis­ The hon. member for Mundingburra talks sioner is still there. So much for the promises about concessions and all those little tiddley­ of the various Ministers as they toured the winky things. countryside wooing the electors and receiving Mr. Aikens: They are not tiddley-winkey 43 per cent. of the _votes. We ~n_ow what to the men. happened in the electiOn of the Mm1stry. Mr. GAIR: What is wrong with the The hon. member for Chermside said this unions? regarding the railways- Mr. Aikens: You knocked the unions back. "It is long past the time that the Govern­ ment should see that their own employees Mr. GAIR: Today we heard the hon. do more in the interests of the country." member for Bremer ask, "Why do not the Government bear the cost or give leave to That was typical of the attitude of hon. mem­ union officials to come to conferences?" bers opposite when they were in Opposition, Unions are getting big fees from their mem­ bers today. It costs them nothing to collect that there was loafing in the railways. them as they are collected by the Commis­ This is what was said by another hon. sioner for Railways. There is a periodic member of the present Government when in show of union tickets and those who have not paid their union fees are threatened with Opposition:- reduced pay. "To find the reason for the Jag in repair Mr. Thackeray interjected. we must look at the workshop because the slow repair rate is the main cause. Union Mr. GAIR: I was in a union before dictatorship has been responsible for many I was conscripted into it like the hon. member. I paid without having to be of the problems. There is a grave deficiency conscripted. Are not the unions that have in output." 850 Supply [ASSEl\iBLY] Supply

This is what the present Minister for yards. Trains hauled by diesels cannot he Transport said- accommodated at the railway station. The "Air-conditioned trains in Queensland platform should be lengthened on what may are in keeping with the best trains in the be called the Bundaberg side, and on the States. Inefficiency is the main reason for Gympie side. In bad weather passenge~s the falling off in the Department's revenue." have to walk a considerable distance m heavy rain and they and_ their luggag~ get Today the hon. member for South Brisbane wet. Conditions for loadmg :;tre unsatisfac­ joined the chorus, finding it sufficiently tory. I have seen parcels, ma1l and luggage important to say there were some men in the from mail trains being unloaded OJ?tO the Railway Department who were not pulling railway line and amidst the signal Wires. I their weight or giving a fair return for their hope something will be done to alter that. wages. He considered that the number was Government members have had much to sufficiently large to warrant his mentioning say about the industrial ~azards: but there the matter in Parliament. We do not hold is no place with more mdustnal hazards that opinion about the men in the Railway than Baddow. Passengers from th~ Towl:1s­ Department. Vve remember their magnificent ville mail have to cross an open railway lme service during the war, and how repairs were to get to their car, despite the fact t~at carried out to keep the service running. If it enoines are on the line and trains are movmg had not been for their individual efforts the to band fro. Sooner or later there will be a service would not have been equal to the serious disaster there. demands placed upon it. The men gave a grand service to the State which is to their The place where motor car~ wai~ is com­ credit. After the war the Railway Department pletely unlighted. It should be !llumi~ated, or a light placed on the Maryborough side of the had to re-establish itself, and it had to recover stationmaster's house, with a subway under from the battering it received during the war the line to the platform. The problem but the State has not had any compensation would then be overcome. I hope my sug­ from the Commonwealth Government for the gestions will be considered seriously. because wear and tear on the State railways during the conditions are completely unsatisfactory war. I think the Minister would find in the at the moment. These dangerous conditions files of his department some understanding should not be tolerated in an important city with the Commonwealth Government about like Maryborough; they call for immediate the wear and tear on the railways. It was action. A covered way or shelter shed on brought up by the Minister for Railway~ in the Maryborough and Gympie ends of the New South Wales on a number of occasiOns station platform is essential. The p_latform and in this respect the Commonwealth Gov­ itself should be extended. I hope this work ernment should be reminded of their duty to will be undertaken by the men now work­ the State. The Commonwealth have never ing on the station. I leave my suggestior:s compensated the State fully for the extra with the Minister, trusting that he and h1s wear and tear on the railways of this State officers will give them very serious considera­ which were greater than that suffered by any tion. other State during war. The roof of the Maryborough workshops Let me now devote a little time to matters in the locomotive shed has deteriorated since concerning the Mar~b.orough r~i!way cent.re. the Minister's visit. There are v:ery large During his recent VISit the Mm1ster carr;ed holes in the roof and sheets are missing in out some inspections. I hope that the erectiOn places. In bad weather the rain pours in of the lights at the Oakhurst crossing that we and I ask the Minister to have the roof discussed will be provided at an early date. repaired immediately. If a savage blow should occur, the whole roof would be torn Mr. Chalk: Until the equipment arrives away. we cannot do it. Additional labourers and tradesmen assist­ Mr. DAVIES: Over the years I have ants are needed in the workshops. Industrial emphasised the need for a master plan for hazards by the dozen are to be encountered the future railway development of the Mary­ in that establishment. It is rather strange borough centre, with its problems similar to to hear the Minister for Labour and Indus­ those associated with Newcastle and Bowen. try speak of attempts to reduce ind_ustri<;-1 Many mail trains pass through Baddow rail­ hazards when they exist by the dozen m this way station, and passengers have to be trat?­ shed. It is impossible for the men, the. for~­ shipped and taken to Maryborough. There IS man and the officer in charge to mamtam a big reserve that may be devel<;>ped as a conditions of safety. Certain rules p_rovide future railway station, as the town Is develop­ for whitewashing and cleaning of p1ts. I visit the place frequently, the latest occasion ing in that direction, bu~ as that does not seem possible in the immedmte future, . I suggest being last week, and I know that the con­ that certain improvements be earned out at ditions there are entirely unsatisfactory. It the Baddow railway station. I know that is ridiculous for the Government to say they certain improvements are being made to the are trying to bring about a red_uction in ind~s­ station at the moment, but they are not trial hazards when they permit them to exist adequate. New lighting has been installed, in these loco sheds. but it is not sufficient. Three flood­ Mr. Chalk: Will you enlarge on what you lights should be installed in the railway term industrial hazards. Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 851

Mr. DAVIES: Articles, rubbish, and Mr. Chalk: Why waiting to be appointed cinders lying all over the place. That is in the Railway Department? unnecessary. Mr. DAVIES: I have not the figures with Mr. Nicholson: Whose fault is that? me at the moment but the Treasurer said that there were about 9,000 unemployed Mr. DAVIES: The Government, because in Queensland. I point out that many they do not appoint sufficient labourers to men do not register for employment attend to this work. If there were sufficient and they could be among the men labourers on the job it could be done satis­ who could be appointed. Men not factorily. The officer in charge cannot employed in the Tuan forest area would be arrange the work if he has not got sufficient eligible for appointment in the department. labour to do it. I do not want to see more appointed than Mr. Nicholson: That is not an indictment are necessary but it is one way in which on the Government but an indictment on the unemployed can be absorbed into the workers. industry. I am connecting my remarks with the Vote by suggesting ways and means by Mr. DAVIES: The workmen have not got which the Minister can find work. the time nor are there sufficient men to do The Minister told me in reply to my ques­ the work. tion this morning that the Machinery and Mr. Nicholson: It is rot. Scaffolding Act does not apply to the Crown. I mention that in passing. Mr. DAVIES: It is not rot. I shall be I wish now to deal with the running staff, pleased to pass on to the men at Maryborough members of which have to go out in all that a member of the Government says that kinds of weather and are never certain when it is the fault of the men. That is all I they will return to their homes. They have shall say on that because it is on record. to make themselves available for work 14 That is the general attitude of Government days a fortnight, which of course, includes members. I do not think the Minister is Saturdays and Sundays. The penalty rates aware of the full facts about the shortage applicable-that is, time and a-half for Sun­ of labour at this centre. The superintendent clays-can be stretched out to make up the is an excellent officer, one doing a splendid fortnightly pay to comply with the fort­ job. He has cleaned up the railway yards nightly-guarantee clause. Train crews-that and reduced industrial hazards by making the is, drivers, firemen, and guards-have no ground level, thus giving enginemen better home life compared with other departmental vision. The whole place has been improved employees. If one of them takes his wife and and cleaned up. family out to some entertainment and the The Minister said that there had been no department requires him to work, and sends a reduction in staff but railway men do not message while he is away from home, he auto­ view it in that way. There are many outside matically forfeits his fortnightly-guarantee the railway service who should be in it. payment if he is not available. I have been There are 1,029 fewer men in the railway advised that the department is not obliged service today than when the Government to give him any more work or make up his took office, and that is a reason why work time to the fortnightly payment, and under is held up. A number of C17 and other the circumstances he forfeits the guarantee. engines are not in proper running condition. If that is so, it is quite wrong. Railway lengths are not relaid at the rate they should be and work cannot proceed at normal A Government Member: Did you con­ rate because of the reduction in staff. For demn it when you were a member of the instance, the permanent way staff has 227 Government? fewer men; the signal and electrical stall Mr. DAVIES: That does not make it 10, and the locomotive staff 400 fewer than right. If a man leaves his home for the in 1957. There are fewer employed on the week-end and is not available when the administrative staff and in the Commissioner's department requires his services, his right to office. The reduction in the number of the guaranteed payment lapses. employees is tantamount to sacking them and not replacing those who have left the service. I point out that in 1957-1958 the depart­ There will be a shortage of tradesmen in the ment sold what is referred to as surplus and Railway Department because of the non­ obsolete stock to the value of £780,308. In appointment of apprentices. Men in the ser­ 1958-1959 the figure was £773,544, a total vice realise that there are tradesmen outside for the two years of £1,553,852. The Minis­ who should be employed in the department. ter for Health and Home Affairs has said They feel for men unemployed. The hon. that there is no reason why the railways member for Toowoomba, Mr. Anderson, said should not be run at a profit, but the loss that there was no unemployment and another last year was £4,925,733. If the surplus hon. member opposite said it was ridiculous stock had not been sold, the deficit would to suggest that men were not being employed. have been about £6,500,000 because that I point out to the Minister that there are money must have been spent on some work many thousands of unemployed in the State associated with the Railway Department. In from whom men could be appointed to jobs passing, I point out that in many workshops in the Railway Department. throughout the State there is a shortage of 852 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

many of the materials that were regarded as done if we had more support from the surplus and sold. I think it would have been Commonwealth Government. The present wise if the department had not sold all of Government claimed that they would get that these so-called surplus stocks. support but they have had so many brush­ offs, as the Minister for Development, In conclusion, I emphasise the magnificent Mines, and Main Roads said. Had we got work done in the Railway Department while the Labour Government were in power. more from the Commonwealth we should They effected a marvellous recovery in the have been able to do far more in the inter­ railway service immediately after the war ests of those men who are giving a grand years. We hear a good deal about North service in the remote parts of the State. The Queensland from the hon. member for Mun­ Commonwealth Government are not inter­ dingburra and the hon. member for Table­ ested. They are even taking mails away lands, but soon after the war the Labour from the railways and giving them to the air Government bought two excellent rail-motor services, robbing the Government of money trains, both for service in the North. In that could be used to build cottages and addition, six magnificent four-car diesel­ improve the general living standard of those mo.tor trains were purchased, only one of who live in the Far West. Hon. members whrch was for the metropolitan area. The opposite have not the courage to rise to their others were sent to the following sections:- feet and protest. Warwick-Goondi windi- Dirranbandi; (Time expired.) Toowoomba-Chinchilla-Wandoan; Mr. EWAN (Roma) (5.44 p.m.): On Maryborough-Gayndah-Monto; behalf of my electorate and myself I extend Maryborough-Kingaroy; congratulations to the Minister for Transport Rockhampton-Gladstone. on the splendid work he is doing in the One has only to travel in those excellent administration of one of the most important trains to realise what an improvement in departments in the Government today. It service they meant to the country people. must be realised that the costs used to deter­ In addition, the Labour Government bought mine cost-of-living figures, the advance and eight air-conditioned trains at a cost of development of industry and the benefits approximately £3,250,000. Think what it extended to the people, particularly in inland means to the people of the Outback. Think areas, are largely dependent on transport. what an air-conditioned train means to Mt. It can truthfully be said that the Minister, Isa and to the people of Gregory. The by his sympathetic understanding of human Labour Government did not spend all their nature, his business acumen and his apprecia­ money in the city. They had vision beyond tion of the motivating forces in life, as they the Brisbane Line, and beyond Nambour, affect the working man in particular, has where tremendous sums are being spent on brought about a complete understanding and roads while nothing is being spent in the co-operation in all branches of the railway Central District and in the Maryborough service. area. No other rail system in Australia at In the report of the Commissioner for the time operated so many air-conditioned Railways one paragraph stands out like a trains or provided both sleeping and sitting beacon light. It appears on page 10 and it accommodation. You cannot get a second­ reads- class sleeper even in the State of New South Wales. Our air-conditioned trains are equal "The Gross earnings during the financial to the best in the world. In 1953, the first, year ended 30th June, 1959, failed by the Inlander, was put into service between £1,257,919 to reach working expenses, but Townsville and Mt. Isa. if working expenses did not have to bear the debits for relaying (£1,057,695), Pay­ Reference has been made to the modern roll Tax (£659,144), and demolished assets equipment used by lengthsmen. No men in (£306,241) which items represented an the railway service deserve higher praise than aggregate expenditure of £2,023,080, the those who work on the lengths. They render earnings would have exceeded working magnificent service. Fancy the hon. member expenses by £765,161." for South Brisbane saying that men in the railways do not give good honest service Let us consider relaying. A considerable just as one or two Liberal hon. member~ amount of this money would have been spent have said. The lengthsmen set a standard of on relaying heavier rails to enable dieselisa­ service that is greatly appreciated by the tion of the railways to be given effect to. Commissioner. I have here a list of the A considerable amount of that should be, modern equipment supplied. If more can be and could be, classed as capital expenditure. provided, let it be provided. The present It is not just repairs, but the relaying of track capable of carrying heavier locomotives equipment ~ncludes "Matisa" tie tampers, portable air-compressors, and pneumatic and heavier loads. rock drills. Time does not permit me to go Demolished assets amounted to £306,241. right through the list of what was done by That is a capital write-off which should not the previous Government. Certainly not be attributed to working expenses. Taking everything was done. I could cite a record these factors into consideration, all thinking year of improvements in quarters. We would people in the State will join with me in like to see more done, and more could be congratulating the Minister and all member~ Sttpply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 853 of his administrative staff on the wonderful Mr. Davies: That is not true. result of their efforts in the one full year the Minister has administered the affairs of Mr. EWAN: It has been proved. the railways in Queensland. Taking all these Mr. Wallace: It is not true. factors into consideration-believe me, they are relevant factors-he has almost balanced Mr. EWAN: When the Minister replies he his budget and the railways have struck will prove it. The hon. member says there even for the first time for many years in are 1,027 fewer employees now than when their history. It must be remembered that we took office. That is probably correct. the railways are still giving developmental Apparently the hon. member who is without service to the State. It was said by the business training fails to understand the posi­ hon. members for South Brisbane and tion. Employees are retired on reaching the Merthyr that the railways could be run on retiring age and it is true that they have not a business footing if it were so desired, but been replaced. You do not replace men if by doing so the development of this far­ there is no work for them to do, the Railways flung State would undoubtedly be retarded Department is not a charitable institution. because the railways render a public service The Commonwealth Government provide to the people by assisting in the development social services for those who are unfortunate of industries which in turn provide employ­ enough to be unemployed. The hon. member ment and the establishment of further who does not understand business methods industries for the betterment of all concerned. evidently fails to realise that although there If the people want the railways to be run are 1,027 fewer employees in the department as a business concern, we have an adminis­ today, those who remain receive every con­ trator sitting on the front bench on this side sideration from the department and have a in the person of the Minister for Transport feeling of security. They co-operate with who can give this service. But his breadth the department to achieve the same result as of vision is far greater than that. Because was achieved when the department had 1,027 he has broken very close to even in his more employees. accounts in the last financial year he is deserving of the appreciation of the people Mr. DAVIES: I rise to a point of order. of the State. The hon. member has just stated that I said that the Railway Department now had 1,027 Mr. Davies: Do you really mean that he more employees than in 1957. I said that nearly broke even? the Railway Department had more than 1,000 Mr. EWAN: He did. If the hon. member fewer employees in 1959 than in 1957 when knew anything about figures, had he had any the Government took office. experience in actuarial accounting, he would realise the truth of what I have said. I The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. know that he was a schoolmaster, but had member for Roma to accept the denial of he had any business training whatsoever he the hon. member for Maryborough. would not have made such an interjection. Mr. EWAN: I am delighted to accept it. In reply to my interjection, the hon. member The hon. member for Maryborough does no£ for South Brisbane with great glee attributed realise that is exactly what I did say. I admit what I said to inexperience. He predicted that there are 1,027 fewer employed in the an increase in rail freights. He said that railways today than when the Government it was unavoidable. In reply to his pre­ took office. The hon. member does not seem diction let me point out that since the to realise that the remainder have, by their Railway Department has been under the efficiency and co-operation, and stimulated administration of the present Government, by a sense of security, given a better service particularly the Minister for Transport, it than that given when the number of has absorbed basic wage increase after basic employees was 1,027 more. wage increase without increasing rail freights or passenger fares anywhere in the State. I Mr. Davies: Do you say that the business venture to say, even though it is not my is growing? habit to gaze into the crystal ball, that as long as we have this sound administration, Mr. EWAN: If the hon. member for Mary­ rail freights will not be increased. I suggest borough cares to read the report he will see that this administration will absorb any that the business has increased considerably unforeseen increases in costs. and I have no doubt that under our sympa­ Mr. Walsb interjected. thetic administration the services of the department will be availed of to a greater Mr. EWAN: The hon. member had many extent in the future. years in which to do it and he failed miser­ The hon. member for Belyando has recom­ ably. He should now retire gracefully and mended that the Minister consult practical leave it to younger men with more brains men, the railway men who do the actual and better ideas and then we will get results, work, that he should get amongst them and something that the hon. member and his find out from them at first hand what should colleagues failed to achieve. be done or what they desire for full Although the Labour Government were co-operation with the administration. That about to behead 700 railway men the hon. is just what the Minister has been doing, and member for Maryborough claims-- I congratulate him on it. 854 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

One of the happiest days of my life was fare of his employees. That is exemplified the day the Minister visited Roma. I told when he in no uncertain fashion exposed an the boys in the railway yard that the Minister anomaly that had obtained for many years would be visiting the area and I asked them under Labour and with its complete lack of would they like him to address them during appreciation of the right of employees. ~or the lunch hour. Being good honest-to-God years Labour refused to grant compensatiOn Australians and better Queenslanders, they to a railway worker who was injured while said, "We will be delighted to hear what he travelling on a railway pass during his holi­ has to say." I told the Minister, and he days-a shocking state of affairs. The said, "That is what I am here for, to have a Minister altered that and now if an accident talk with my men, my employees, to find out befalls an employee while travelling on a their requirements and to consult them for railway pass during his holidays he is entitled the purpose of getting a better and more to full compensation. Is it not quite apparent efficient service, of improving their conditions that the Minister, in his honesty and integrity, and of bringing about more contentment and wishes to give justice and equity to all sec­ security." We went to the Institute hall and tions of the community? One of his first to my amazement about 90 men were present. legislative acts was to alter the basis of It gave me great pleasure to introduce the compensation for loss of life in a railway Minister, who spoke at length and at the accident. Under Labour the compensation conclusion of his remarks asked for any sug­ payable for loss of life occasioned whilst gestions. Some very sensible suggestions travelling on the railways was limited to were made on improvement of their working £2,500. How often have we noticed, under conditions and efficiency of the Roma yards. third party insurance, people being awarded The Minister told them that he appreciated £10,000, £15,000 and even £20,000 for the their suggestions. If I remember correctly, loss of a limb. And rightly so. I am about 10 were made. The Minister said, "I pointing out the lack of justice and equity will go along with you as soon as the meet­ on the part of the previous Government. ing concludes and you can show me the The Minister removed all limitation and so conditions. I want to see them myself. We the claimant can get the amount granted by a can discuss them and try to improve them." judge after having the full facts before him. The President of the union moved a vote of Under Labour the amount payable for the thanks to the Minister, and said that with loss of a sheep killed in transit on the rail­ the change of Government he was in fear ways was £1, for a beast £10, and a horse and trembling that railway men would be £20, but the Minister, knowing that these sacked. He went on to say that after the amounts were unjust, immediately altered the Government's 12 months in office, after hav­ scale to £2 for a sheep, £25 for a beast, and ing listened to the Minister and seen him £30 for a horse. That is indicative of the in action, he wanted to tell the Minister that Minister's sympathetic attitude and his deter­ the department had 98 per cent. co-operation mination to give justice to all people. I have from railway men at Roma. a vivid recollection during Labour's regime One of the men spoke of the conditions at of a person having his sheep caught in the the railway workshops, the engine shed, under railway line when a bushfire came along which these men had been working for years. and destroyed the fences. The sheep rushed The Minister said to me, "You have been ahead of the train and a considerable number there. What are they like?" I said, "I have were killed. The owner sought compensation heard about the hell hole of Calcutta, but from the Minister's predecessor but he would I am sure it was better than the railway not pay it. It was my privilege to obtain engine sheds at Roma." We went to the the full facts. I got them not only from sheds and walked through them. The Minis­ the owner of the sheep, but also from the ter said to me, "How did you describe these driver of the train and other employees who sheds?" I said, "As being like the hell hole saw the accident. of Calcutta." He said, "In my opinion they are worse." He asked the men what could Mr. Davies: You are not telling both sides be done to improve conditions, and he gave of the case. instructions that the work should be carried Mr. EWAN: I am. If the hon. member out. knew the facts he would not dare to interject. He also went through the railway yards, Once again the Minister took the matter up where he received further suggestions. This and granted compensation to the people work has been carried out in accordance with concerned. the suggestions of the railway men. The Commissioner's report discloses that The hon. member for Belyando suggested the department has granted very liberal con­ that the Minister should consult the men, cessions in freight rates to some areas. Many and I congratulate him for his suggestion, of those concessions have been granted to but the fact is that the Minister has been meet road competition, but it is very gratify­ following that practice, and, if I am any ing to know that some of them have been judge, he will continue to do so, with the granted to encourage the establishment of positive purpose of improving conditions and industry. getting greater efficiency and co-operation I shall give hon. members one example of from all sections of the service. how the affairs of the department are adminis­ I should like to indicate the paramount tered under the present sympathetic Govern­ attention that the Minister gives to the wel- ment. Some three or four months ago I Supply (22 OCTOBER] Supply 855 was invited to attend a meeting of a local Mr. Ewan: Who did? authority whose crushing plant had broken down. They wanted 600 tons of screenings Mr. THACKERAY: You, from my infor­ to seal the streets in a western town, and mation, and when you found out the freight they had to get them in a hurry to avoid rates on them you said, "Blow this. I can putting men off. I was told that no provis:on get road transport cheaper." had been made in the council's budget for chc Mr. EWAN: Again I must rise to a point cost of transporting screenings, but it was of order. That statement is untrue. It is essential to get them from Toowoomba to offensive to me and objectionable and I ask avoid sacking their employees. They sug­ for an unconditional withdrawal. gested that the Minister might consider ~ome reduction in the rail freight of £4 9s. 2d. a The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. ton. I rang the Minister at 11.30 in the member to withdraw the statement and to morning, and at 3 o'clock in the afternoon please address the Chair and to address him­ I received a telegram saying that the council self to the Vote. would be given a freight concession of £1 a ton. The consignment started to leave Mr. THACKERAY: I withdraw, and I Toowoomba the following day at a saving to address myself to the Vote. the council of £600. It is acts like that that give people in the country, particularly the The main thing is that in Queensland we West, a knowledge of the sympathetic con­ have 6,327 miles of 3-ft. 6-in. gauge railway sideration that their requests receive from line and the railways are doing a very good the Minister and the officers of his derart­ job in the development of the primary indus­ ment. On behalf of the local authority con­ tries of the State. However, in the two years cerned, I publicly thank the Minister and that the Minister has been in office the gross his officers for their action. A paragraph earnings have not exceeded the year's about it appeared in a paper but still people working expenses. Only five times, to in the area could hardly believe that any my memory, has that ever happened and it Government could act with such promptitude. has happened in the two years of the present 1 made many similar representations to the Government's administration. It should be Minister's predecessor, but I was lucky to get viewed seriously. a reply within a fortnight. As the working expenses of the railways (Time expired.) for the year ended 30 June, 1959, exceeded earnings by £1,257,919, we must carefully Mr. THACKERAY (Keppel) (7.24 p.m.): analyse the position in relation to the Depart­ During the last 25 minutes we have seen the ment of Transport. Last year road transport greatest "back-flip" of all time from the hon. earnings were in excess of £1,000,000. member for Roma, whose party has openly advocated either that the railways be scrapped The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. or that they be handed over to private enter­ member is not allowed to refer to the Depart­ prise. That suggestion was published in the ment of Transport. Country Party newspaper "Country Life," .and similar publications. ' Mr. THACKERAY: I will leave that till later. Reverting to the activities of the Rail­ Mr. E\VAN: I rise to a point of order. way Department, I turn to losses in passenger The statement of the hon. member for Keppel traffic. These must be very embarrassing to is a deliberate untruth. It is offensive to me and I ask for its withdrawal. the Government and some action must be taken to offset them, particularly in the The CHAIRMAN: Order! I advise the metropolitan area. The losses are not so hon. member for Keppel that the hon. mem­ heavy in the central and northern divisions. ber for Roma says he has stated an untruth I daresay with the introduction of new stain­ and, that being the case, I ask him to with­ less-steel coaches, as the Minister said, and draw the statement. with the electrification of the suburban rail­ ways, some of the passenger traffic in the Mr. THACKERAY: In deference to you, southern division will be recaptured. Mr. Taylor, I will, but I can obtain a copy of It is high-time an air-conditioned train the newspaper tomorrow. was put into service between Rockhampton Mr. EWAN: I still ask for a withdrawal. and Brisbane. It is an absolute necessity if The hon. member has not withdrawn his the railways are to recapture some of the untruthful statement. passenger traffic that has been lost to air travel from that line in the last few years. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The. hon. Previously I have spoken of the valuable ·member must withdraw unconditionally. work that has been done by the publicity !VIr. THACKERAY: I will withdraw officers in the northern, southern and central unconditionally in deference to your ruling. divisions. I notice from the Estimates that the wool trade has slipped by 9.7 per cent. in To show how divorced the hon. member Central Queensland. That is something else for Roma is from the railway movement, let that must be recaptured, particularly with the me say that recently he ordered five development of Port Alma and the import­ K-wagons. ance of the overseas market. The success of 856 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the wool trade is absolutely essential to the Rockhampton. Because of the pin-pricking revenue of the railways in the West. tactics of his departmental officers he has Working expenses have been reduced by had a strike on his hands in Rockhampton. The strike was caused by various officers 4d. per ton mile-from 38s. 4d. to 38s. checking on the number of times employees That looks well on paper but it has been went to the toilet. Members of the Boiler­ brought about by booking off station masters makers' Society went on strike. One man was throughout the length and breadth of the told, "If you speak cheekily to me again you State. Today trains are operating 150-odd will be dismissed." There we see the "get­ miles on a set working, with no night officers, tough" attitude of the Minister. Today noth­ station masters or other personnel on duty. ing is mentioned in the Press if there is a That partly accounts for the reduction in derailment, but when the Leader of the working expenses per train mile. Station Opposition was Minister for Transport masters, loco foremen and other high-salaried in the previous Government, every time officers are being used as message boys. These there was a derailment there was a officers should not be used to run messages at fanfare of trumpets. He was told to the whim of general managers. They should get busy and stop the derailments. But stay in their offices. The parcels traffic has now we hear nothing even though there shown a loss. Recently I waited an hour and are just as many derailments. Does this get­ a-half in the Rockhampton parcels office to tough policy refer to employees or the be served by the one man on duty. There administrative officers? On 24 September were about 30 people waiting. No wonder nine K-wagons stood seven hours at Towns­ the railways are losing their parcels traffic to ville because there was no connecting train. the airways. The same thing happens in the They were moved to Babinda, about 35 miles cloakroom at Rockhampton. Over the week­ south of Cairns where they stood for a six end the cloakroom is closed and a person and a-half hours on the way to the Queerah wanting his port might have to chase the meatworks. Will the Minister say if this get­ station master down into the yards three tough policy is for the employees or the miles away. administrative officers. We want something The hon. member for Maryborough gave on an even pattern. figures for the years 1955-1956 up to the In regard to the letting of leases for refresh­ present. ment rooms, I should like to know what The Commissioner's report shows that the conditions are laid down. Are they to be number of wages staff in the locomotive made grog houses where only beer is to be workshop branch in 1959 was 11,530 and sold, or are they to provide a service for in 1958 11,789 or 259 less. This is different the women and children who are travelling? from the answer to a question I asked the Minister previously about the work force Mr. Low: It is a better service now than in the various divisions. He gave me a very ever. different answer. Stores have been offset to the extent of £773,000. The depart­ Mr. THACKERAY: I have complaints ment is operating on a shoe-string economy from Innisfail to Ingham about the lack of throughout the State. Every day in the service. Women have gone in and waited week various engineers are sending out to for a cup of tea and a few sandwiches for the local warehouses for material. children, but because only one woman was Mr. Chalk: Don't you believe in supporting on duty serving beer they were not served local industry? and they had to go back to the train when the time was up. That is the type of service Mr. THACKERAY: I do not believe in that we are getting. We heard the Minister operating on a shoe-string economy, particu­ say that it cost £10,000 a year and by letting larly when men are waiting for materials. out contracts they have saved £3,000 a year. Yet the Minister wants to get the maximum At the same time the poor service is chasing amount of toil out of them. Recently a rail­ people away from the railways. way painter was sent down for a gallon of special paint for carriages. Along came The maintenance gangs should be increased one of the top men in Rockhampton from four to six. There has been an increase who said, "What are you doing here? Loaf­ from 60 lb. to 82 lb. in the rail weight, there­ ing?" The man said, "No, I am waiting for fore there should be more men in these a gallon of paint. We are allowed only a gangs. The crushing plant which is operating gallon at a time." The other day they had outside Y arwun is a failure. The ballast pro­ to send out to buy a roll of 8-gauge wire duced is too large. The grading machine because they did not have enough. does not do a satisfactory job. The blue metal is the size of this railway Estmiates When the Minister went up to Rockhamp­ book. ton he said, "I want you all to know that I'm a good fellow. I want you to realise The Minister advocated an increase in the that I am on your side. In the Cabinet there number of sidings throughout the State. At are a lot of bad boys who will chop your Mt. Christian if the engine stops at the tank head off." But this soothing syrup he is the 70F is over the Mt. Christian bridge from trying to administer to railwaymen is having where there is a drop of 50 ft. into about the opposite effect to what he desires in 100 ft. of water below which is full of Supply [22 0CTOBEH] Supply 857 crocodiles. What chance has the guard The Government say they are seeking getting out on that bridge with safety? The means to increase the revenue of the depart­ Emu Park line, which has been built for 50 ment. I said previously that the department years, is in a deplorable condition. A top should conduct a door-to-door pick-up and administrative officer told me it was in a delivery service in all provincial towns and deplorable condition and not sound and cities. The service should be inaugurated should be re-laid. The line from Lakes immediately. Every year men retire from Creek to Emu Park needs re-laying. I the department and are not replaced. If a know the conditions of that line and I know pick-up and delivery service was started, that it is not safe. further employment would be provided, and the department would obtain additional Let us deal with freight concessions which revenue. must be a hot potato for the Government. The American railroads use aluminium The Leader of the Opposition spoke of containers, units between 15 and 24 feet concessions in rail freights. The report of in length. The goods consigned by rail are the Commissioner lists the unlimited con-­ packed into these cases which are then loaded cessions granted to various industries in onto fiat wagons. The department could Queensland. I am not directly opposed to with advantage adopt a similar system. some of them, but others are unwarranted. Mr. Hewitt interjected. Each of them should be the subject of a searching inquiry, to ascertain whether the Mr. THACKERAY: The hon. member for concession is being passed on to the con­ Mackenzie knows nothing about railways sumer. The need for some concessions is although he may know something about long since past. cattle. I am serious when I say that two accidents Rebates are allowed on the carriage of have already occurred at this point. Byellee starving stock. If a grazier is not preoarcd which is north of Rockhampton, is the junc­ to give an unequivocal assurance that he will tion for the Monto line. It is all down-grade use only rail transport, he should be denied into Byellee. I know that the hon. member any rebate on the carriage of starving stock. for Cooroora who has been a stationmaster What return does the department get from would not know how to put a home the wool-grower? The position is revealed signal back Trains cross the Calliope River in the figure covering revenue in each and swing round to Byellee but the home Division. In a month's time graziers may be signal is too close to the points. The home applying for rebates on the carriage of starv­ signal will have to be shifted to the other ing stock. The Government must take a firm side of the river so as to give sufficient time stand. Unless a grazier is prepared to guar­ for any driver overshooting the signal, to antee that he will use only rail transport, stop. An inquiry into a recent accident is the concession should be refused. The being held at the present time. department should not be the milking-goat Mr. GARDNER (Rockhampton) (7.47 for everyone in Australia. p.m.): This is an important Vote. Those of us who believe in State ownership are glad to Before the hon. member for Rockhamp'cn know that the Government have followed the beats me to it I must mention the Rock­ policy of the previous Government. The hampton railway station, the Chinese pagoda provision of a transport service is a tre­ as it was referred to by the Minister. mendous task. We should feel happy with Mr. Adair: You should get one similar to the effort put forward in the last 12 months. the Cairns railway station. We give credit where it is due. On the occasions that I have approached the Minister Mr. THACKERAY: Yes, one on the same he has always treated me with courtesy. lines. Mr. GAVEN: Mr. Taylor, I find difficulty Mr. Gilmore: When was the foundation in hearing the hon. member because of the stone laid? noise in the Chamber. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have called Mr. THACKERAY: If the hon. member for order a number of times and my call tells me we will both know. has been ignored. Hon. members on both sides of the Chamber must restrain their loud For months we have heard the suggestion conversations so that the hon. member for that Queensland has a sympathetic Govern­ Southport and myself may hear the hou. ment, but what is the position in Rock­ member for Rockhampton. hampton? The department has provided amenities such as aluminium wash-basins but Mr. GARDNER: We must look forw?y,; it has not provided_ any recreation room for to Queensland's development. During th~: railwaymen or any building where the men last war a magnificent effort was put forward can eat their meals. They have to sit on the by the railway system and it is only na.mral track, or an axle-rod or somewhere else. that some things should be neglected as What amenities have been provided in the everyone was working at high pressure. The locomotive workshops? A septic system rehabilitation of the service has placed a should be installed in all locomotive depots. tremendous toll on Queensland but with 858 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply sufficient goods and passengers the service very low and we must try to attract more could be made to pay. However the diffi­ passengers to the railways and at the same culty arises because of the sh'ortage of time build up stocks of the right type of patronage. The railway service is no different vehicles, together with dieselisation, to serve from bus services_ conducted by munici­ the primary industries and get the best palities. results. Working expenses for the year were The previous Government embarked upon £36,593,938, or 103.5 per cent. of the a plan of railway rehabilitation at the end revenue. The excess of working expenses of World War II., and one of the first over earnings was £1,257,919. Add to that matters that the then Minister for Transport interest-the great nightmare of hire pur­ attended to was the purchase of new rolling chase, the great interest bill that will not stock. Since the end of the war every diminish-£3,667,814 and you arrive at the country has had to face up to the difficulties actual deficit of £4,925,733. Therein lies presented by modern transport methods, and a story. When the Railway Department Queensland is no exception. The impact shows a deficit under any Government­ of other forms of transport on the Queens­ it was done under a Labour Government land railways is very hard. and it is being done under this Government -the Treasurer has to assist it from Con­ I remind hon. members that the Queens­ solidated Revenue by making a reasonable land railway service covers 6,327 miles of allocation to enable the Minister to do his 3 ft. 6 in. gauge line, the area of the State job effectively. In the absence of an alloca­ is 670,500 square miles, and the population tion from Consolidated Revenue many more 1,417 ,404. The railways would face a men will be sacked and the railways will not tremendous task even if the State was fully be able to operate as they should. developed. As we all know, it is far from being fully developed and, in addition, it That brings us to the serious problems of is mainly a primary-producing State. All the transport system. I have analysed the this adds to the difficulties of the department. Commissioner's report very closely. Though I presume there was no way out, I am some­ I sympathise with the Minister, as I have what disappointed to note that the Minister with his predecessors, in the task confronting bolstered up the funds by using the Stores him. While we would all like to see the Suspense Account to assist the Capital railway service run at a profit, we cannot Account to the extent of £773,544. Not bury our heads in the sand. We must many hon. members would expect a similar acknowledge the difficulties that confront us. sum to be available from that account next As I have said, the Railway Department has year. It is well known that the Minister had to face up to competition from airlines tapped every available avenue last year, even and road transport, competition that was not sold waste, to balance the books. He will even dreamed of in 1949. We should be satis­ not be able to do that next year. fied as long as the railways give service to the public and keep deficits down to a reason­ It is true that the Government did not able figure. Many people say that the rail­ increase freights. I very loudly compli­ ways should be run on business lines, but mented the Minister on that because the they forget that to do that it would be dog trying to catch his tail does not solve necessary to bring an end to all freight any problem. The best course is to try to concessions. keep the figure down to a reasonable level, as was done last year. It is true that the During the lifetime of this Stare a basic-wage increases were absorbed, and tremendous amount of money has been spent freight rates maintained. It meant that the on the railways. With the change from department had to absorb a charge of out-of-date to modern methods we are faced £1,382,270, a very big sum. Working with the problem of ever-soaring costs. Expenses showed an increase of £583,149 The Commissioner's report shows that the over 1957-1958. We have to be prepared gross earnings of the department for the year to tell the people of Queensland the true 1958-1959 amounted to £35,336,019, an story about the railways, particularly those increase of £1,522,142 over the previous year. of us who believe in the need for community Let me now show where the earnings come service under public ownership. If the rail­ from in order that I may suggest to the ways were to be conducted on a private­ Minister and his officers how the financial enterprise basis, operating purely for profit, position can be still further improved. During it would be a different story. the year revenue was derived from the following sources- The Commissioner's report makes an analysis of revenue that reveals. a ~ecrease £ in the number of passengers earned m every Passengers 3,213,525 division. I can see the story unfolding as I Parcels and miscellaneous look through the figures. In the southern items 2,629,884 division passenger traffic decreased by 2.4 per Goods 24,938,216 cent., in the central division 5.38 per cent. Livestock 4,554,394 and in the northern division 4.82 per cent. From those figures it will be seen that the The passengers are going somewhere else. main revenue sources are goods and livestock. We must try to encourage them to come Passenger traffic revenue for the year back to the railways. It can be done in two 1958-1959 was only £3,213,525. That is ways. The use of the rail motors that were Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 859 mentioned should assist. Improvement could who come to Rockhampton will not have to be effected in the central division by adopting travel in antiquated cars. the suggestion I made last week about air­ I compliment the Department on the use conditioned trains from Rockhampton. of refrigerated cars from Rockhampton to The carriage of wool decreased in the Blackall for transporting milk and other southern division by 18.12 per cent.-another perishables. The western people are entitled sign of what is happening. Someone gets the to every amenity which we can give them. business and we know who! In the central If ever a people deserved consideration it is division there was a decrease of 11.41 per the people of the West-the real Australians cent. We know what is happening at Winton, who are prepared to work in the interest of Longreach and other western centres. The the State and the country. northern division was the only one to show I wish to make some comment on a matter ~n increase in the carriage of wool, an referred to briefly by the Minister and also mcrease of 5.33 per cent. It is all one big story that we are not allowed to discuss in mentioned by the Commissioner-the policy this debate. The Railway Department is enunciated 12 months ago not to have half facing competition and the competition must a dozen jobs going at once. We have to be be met. fair and reasonable about that. It may be better to concentrate on one job and get it Livestock traffic in the southern division finished before commencing another. decreased by 2.39 per cent. in the central Up to £15,000 worth of drain-pipes are on division there was an increa~e of 2.68 while the northern division showed an increase of an area at Parkhurst, the site of the proposed 27.89. We have a small increase in the new railway workshops, and they have been central division where road-trains are being there for the best part of three years. I hope used. There was a bigger increase in the the Minister will be able to tell us that he northern division where road facilities are will spread his wings and have new work­ not as good. From Hughenden and other shops built, consistent with the importance areas in the West cattle have to be brought of that area. I wish to be fair and state that out by rail. In the southern division the the Minister and the Commissioner have been livestock traffic is slowly slipping away from very generous to the Rockhampton railway us. That is why the appointment of good­ workshops. A considerable amount has been will officers, to my mind, has been a step in spent in the past 12 months on the latest the right direction. They do a lot of good machinery. The present workshops are but even a greater effort should be made. I inadequate. do not know whether the goodwill officers Mr. Chalk: We are getting the steel for already appointed are making the maximum new sheds. effort but at least their appointment was a step forward and it will pay dividends in the Mr. GARDNER: I give the Minister a long run. I think that the matter should be pat on the back for that, but I ask him also investigated further to see whether there is to give attention to the building of work­ any justification in the suggestion of some shops at Parkhurst. hon. members from the country areas for the appointment of more goodwill officers. I notice a report in "The Rockhampton I regret the losses that will be occasioned by Morning Bulletin" to the effect that the the action of the Commonwealth Govern­ Minister has included in the Estimates this ment regarding postal charges. The Treas­ year an amount of £5,000 for plans for the urer said that he could not state what the Rockhampton railway station. It has been actual losses would be to the Railway Depart­ an eyesore for many years. The foundation ment, but he did refer to the large increase stone of a new station was laid in 1929, but in cost occasioned by increased telephone through many sets of circumstances the work and postage charges. I think we have to has not proceeded. On one occasion a con­ face up to these problems and consider all tract for the building was drawn up, but suggestions and make eve~y effort to over­ finally the contractor would not sign the come them. . I appreciate the policy of the document. At a later stage, after the war, Government m endeavouring to increase the steel was difficult to get, and the Govern­ number of rail-motors. That will be bene­ ment, at that time, could not get any assis­ ficial to the suburban areas, but, as I said tance from the Federal Government to the other day, I am not happy that the alloca­ secure steel. tion of £2,000,000 for this purpose should I trust that the amount of £5,000 included be wholly to Brisbane. I listened to the in the Estimates will be kept aside for the Minister's explanation about the matter specific purpose stated in the Estimates. It having been delayed because there was no has been said that the Ipswich railway money in the coffers. We have to be fair station is in a similar condition to the Rock­ and reasonable in these matters and recognise hampton station. It may be so, but it can­ that a certain amount of work had to be not be denied that Rockhampton needs a done and money had to be found. My argu­ new station urgently. Apart from the dilapi­ ments tonight were supported by the figures dated appearance of the building, the condi­ I quoted. In addition to rail-motors, I hope tions under which the employees have to that the Minister will review the matter of work are far from satisfactory. I hope that air-conditioned trains from Rockhampton so a new station will be started by the time the that the people from Winton and Longreaoh next Budget is presented. 860 i:'fupply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I congratulate the Commissioner and the The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. staff of the Railway Department and I member to address himself to the Chair, and thank them for the courtesy with which they ignore interruptions, and not make any per­ have received me whenever I have made sonal remarks. representations to them on behalf of my electorate. I have made representations to Mr. RAE: I am sorry. I ask you, Mr. officers in all sections in an effort to get Taylor, to bear with me because it is hard improvements for my constituents. to ignore some of the childish remarks (Time expired.) levelled at me from the Opposition benches. With the organisation controlling the railways Mr. RAE (Gregory) (8.12 p.m.): Many today there is undoubtedly a real appreciation points have been raised by hon. members of what goes on beyond the confines of the throughout the day. Some have merit, while city. Under the previous Government there others are just so much poppycock. In mak­ was not that appreciation. We in the West ing suggestions some hon. members have are finding that our cattle wagons are being revealed themselves to be out of touch with speeded up; they could be speeded up a little reality. They do not realise the magnitude more. Where there is a bouquet there is of the task undertaken by the Minister nor always a brickbat and no matter how good do they give him credit for the manner in a thing is it can be improved. Rail which he has applied himself to it. He is freights are high and not conducive to busi­ one man in the Government who has shown ness. There is also too much delay in wait­ that he has the capacity and determination ing for K waggons for the private com­ to do the job and is proving, with the co­ panies get the lion's share. Whilst there operation of his executive officers, his ability are other forms of transport I stick to the to transform the Railway Department from good old 3 ft. 6 in. gauge. Over 70,000 the shambles it was in when he accepted his cattle go through Winton every year. It portfolio to a business undertaking based on is a big trucking centre, but there are sound business principles. certain little things which are being dis­ regarded and I feel that I should speak of Mr. WaHace: You do not know what you them to the Minister. Attention should be are talking about. paid to a suggestion from the local graziers' Mr. RAE: It was a shambles. That is the association, the men working in the trucking­ only way it could be described. Hon. mem­ yard, the station-master, the men who drive bers cannot deny that they were con­ the engines and the guards who collectively sidering terminating the services of some have put forward a very sensible idea that 700 employees in the department. Those will not cost the Government very much. men were reinstated by this Government. It will be of advantage to those who sub­ The Minister has committed himself to scribe to the full use of the yard whether at rehabilitating the department and he is per­ Winton or anywhere else in the State. The forming his task in a very noble fashion. Government should take heed of these words He has had the co-operation of all men and of advice. Often when suggestions are made officers. It was said that with the change of to head office the reply is, "We have sent an government men who had been in high officer out and he says 'no'." I have no idea positions for so long would be sacked, but whether the officer concerned would know we had no such ideas. They have done a what he was asked to give his views on. In very good job and are doing even better taking you to task, Mr. Minister, I do so in now because they have a better leader. a constructive way, not in a destructive way as the hon. member for Keppel did when he Mr. Walslt interjected. spoke this way and that way and in the end Mr. RAE: I am not agreeing at all. did not know whether he was going uphill Good soldiers fight better when they have a or down. If his speech indicates his engine­ good general in charge. The Railway driving ability it's a wonder he is here at all. Department now has a good general, and its Mr. Walsh: Are you trucking any employees are doing a better job under him kangaroos now? than they did before. The Minister has proved undoubtedly that better service can Mr. RAE: Not at the moment, but I be given. He has a realistic approach to the might be forced to if I cannot get a salary department and its many problems. There rise or an increase in expenses. can be no denying it; it is there for all to The railway fettlers of this State are doing see. The men in the executive positions in a colossal job under the most adverse con­ the departments are conscious of the needs ditions. The alleged great Australian Labour of we people in the West. I can only speak Party Government, as they refer to them­ as I have always done on the many problems selves, hoodwinked those men into believing peculiar to my areas. that they were doing everything possible for Mr. WaHace interjected. them. They had them living in tents and hovels. They made the greatest possible Mr. RAE: The hon. member can only talk use of the average worker's high regard for of sugar-cane, and knows little about that. the Labour movement. The present Govern­ I suggest that he keep quiet. If he was a ment, however, gave full recognition to the butcher, then let him confine his attack to hardships suffered by these men and pro­ Jim Sparkes. vided very presentable homes for them. Supply [22 OCTOBER) Supply 861

Water is laid on to the homes and they are and the ever-strong thoughts of our Minister even painted in attractive shades. At least and of the Railway Department with respect they are homes for the men and, whether one to the wishes of the West. is a fettler or a politician, there is no place like home. Hon. members opposite would Mr. WALSH (Bundaberg) (8.27 p.m.): The have had them drinking bore water for tht: hon. member for Gregory usually makes some next 20 years. We at least have given them colourful remarks in the Chamber but I refrigerated bore water. I congratulate the suggest that tonight he was inclined to exag­ Minister and his officers on what they have gerate a good deal in trying to justify the done for that excellent band of workers in activities of the Government. the way of refrigeration and sympathy to Mr. Harrison: You tried hard to get him meet western hardships. off the track. I note that £22,000 has been provided for Mr. WALSH: As a matter of fact I was the construction of high-level platforms at trying to keep him on the right track. When Barcaldine and Blackall. That is very good I made the interjection about whether any news, because ladies with tight skirts find kangaroos were being trucked from his elec­ it hard to get up and down from trains at torate I had in mind the fact that the stations without raised platforms. (Laughter.) American market was so depleting our dairy­ I am sure that the news will be welcomed by ing and beef cattle industries generally that elderly people, who find it almost impossible I understand large consignments of kangaroos to board any train or alight from it, whether are being sent to the States for the manu­ it is the "Midlander," the "Sunlander," or facture of hamburgers. It is open for the any other train, at a station that has not a hon. member for Gregory, if he continues raised platform. to be the hon. member for Gregory, to estab­ lish a new industry out there. I very much Frequently I talk to railway men in Long­ doubt that he will remain the hon. member. reach and Winton. I enjoy talking to them He knows as well as anybody in the Cham­ because they are real men. They have said ber that he is very lucky to be here, and all to me, "Thank God, we now have a Govern­ his superficial pleas to the railway men in ment who are mindful of what we have gone the western areas will be of no avail when through over the years! They are doing they are asked to record their votes on the much to help us and taking a sane and policy of the Government. sensible view." Whenever I take their requests to the department, I get a sym­ Transport is one of the most important pathetic hearing. As a rule, people do not phases of our economy. Generally speak­ ask for things unless they need them. It is ing the costs of transport represent one-third very heart-warming and stimulating to be of the total cost in industry. While we can­ associated with men who are realists. In not discuss the overall transport system in a very humble but dignified way they carry the debate on this Vote if I might make the out their job and it must be a source of observation I hope the Minister will impress comfort to them to know that they work upon the Premier and the Government the under the able administration of the Minister need to give the Committee an opportunity and his officers all united to give greater to discuss the Department of Transport. If service to the public. the Government fail to do that, all I can suggest is that they may have something to Mr. Davies: They are very lucky to have hide, in view of the_ rumours circulating. a job in this State. If they feel they have nothing to hide, let them give us the opportunity to debate the Mr. RAE: They are very lucky indeed ~lctivities of that department. We have no because if the policy of the previous adminis­ other chance of getting to it. tration had been followed 700 of them would The railways play a more important role have been out of work. I would go easy if in the economy of the State and in industry, I were the hon. member, because he leaves particularly primary industry, than any other himself open too much. Hon. members oppo­ form of transport. An undertaking with a site did absolutely nothing. They said to them­ yearly revenue between £35,000,000 and selves, "We will always have that vote." Now £3 6,000,000 certainly is not to be belittled in they find that I will always have that vote the way that people are inclined to belittle it because I am part and parcel of the everyday in this Chamber, very frequently aided and life and thinking of those people. Their abetted by an unsympathetic Press. At least homes, families and conditions generally it is somewhat comforting to hear speeches mean far more to me than they ever meant from the Government side in support of the to any hon. members opposite, of the railway administration. So different are they so-called Australian Labour Party. from the speeches we heard from them when they were in Opposition and criticism was I know some people talk too long. It is directed not only at the Minister in charge but better to be brief and to the point. Any words also at the administration generally. Many I utter in this Chamber come from the heart Country Party members particularly were and from a person who has a full and com­ quite vitriolic in their criticism of the Minis­ plete understanding of the stewardship of a ter and the administration of the department. member. I trust that I can in some way I know the general trend over there is not in reflect to my people the qualities, sincerity, support of the hon. member for Tablelands 862 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply who actually wanted to sack the present Com­ fellow-men in the community who depend missioner. But somebody must have stood on on him for efficient service within the Railway his toes because he has never continued that Department. agitation. I know the hon. member for Gregory, for instance, would not support him. I had to make some comments during my period as a Minister for Railways, and I made Mr. Rae: What is that? them openly in this House, against union administration in certain directions. I say the Mr. WALSH: The hon. member for Table­ same now. I think the responsibility of a lands wanted to sack the present Commis­ union leader is to encourage every member of sioner. his union along the proper lines in order that he may give a better service. I also think the Mr. Rae: I would not. I am quite honest general view of members of the Committee is about that. that it would be idle to suggest that there has Mr. WALSH: I have never heard the hon. not for a long period been an element in the member voice his protest against such a state­ Railway Department that has disturbed and ment. But we do have a lot of knockers, disrupted-not just yesterday or the year and have had over the years, not only since before but as far back as 20 or 30 years ago. this Government came into power. It seems If the Government of the past exercised to be the accepted thing that people should direction or jurisdiction over the administra­ get up and knock the Railway Department, tion of the department there were many and I am not saying that there are not some instances when I would have directed the phases of railway administration that do not Commissioner to sack certain employees, but call for some criticism. It would be stupid of that is not the job of a Minister. Much of me to make such a statement because with the criticism levelled against the previous It a~ undertaking like the Railway Department, Government is futile. is always conceded w1th thousands of employees, somewhere that no Commissioner or staff under him can along the line some mistakes must be made. develop the organisation successfully unless It is asking too much to ask the public to he has support on proper lines from his believe that either the Government them­ ministerial head. It is not only necessary in selves or the head office should be solely the Railway Department but in every depart­ responsible for efficient administration within ment. If an officer advises a Minister on the Railway Department. When we realise sound administrative lines and the Minister the decentralisation of the railway system in takes another view in order to appease some Queensland and the huge staff that is of his friends, it must result in inefficiency. employed at various places throughout the I know that things were said about me when State, most of whom give loyal service, mis­ I was there. I was there to do a job in the takes must have occurred in the time of the interests of the public and the great body of previous Government and it is idle for the railwaymen gave me the support which I Minister to suggest that they do not occur expected in any action that I took to correct under his Government. It requires the dishonesty and many other things. Luckily co-operation of every employee within th~ such incidents were few and far between. Railway Department to give the efficiency that Whenever they came under my notice I as a the public iook for. It is not enough merely Minister never attempted to interfere with the to criticise the administration in head office. Commissioner's decision in such matters. I . c_onsider that I am justified in making cntlcal comments about certain phases of rail­ Claims are made about what this Govern­ way administration; I am not going to sur­ ment are doing about employment in the render that right. I shall continue to criticise Railway Department. I draw attention as long as I think there is justification for to the fact that the Estimates show that it. The tendency in this debate is not to dis­ an increase of just over £200,000 will cuss the Railway Department and its be provided from Consolidated Revenue administration from the wide view but rather this year. With an expenditure of from the trivia_! point of view. I am talking £36,000,000, and having regard to all the ?f the . complamts made about people going improvements that must take place in the next m~o t01le_ts. I suppose that sort of complaint 12 months, we have the paltry figure of w11l contmue until the next Government after £200,000 allocated this year out of funds this one. But there is a time and place available to the Government to provide for for that sort of criticism. I do not think an efficient administration of the Railway we ~a? COJ?plain if action is taken by any Department. From Loan Fund last year, for adm1mstrat10n, Labour, anti-Labour, or a construction works the sum of £3,308,850 completely new administration in head office was appropriated and the expenditure was to counter such things. Apart from what £3,376,021. But this year the amount is might be expected from the Government and only £2,863,290 and so a substantial reduction what might be expected from the head office in employment is inevitable. I know the administration and the administration gener­ Government will say, "We have £3,300,000 ally throughout the State, it is only fair that to be expended on the Mt. Isa line." Last those w!1o represent Labour principles should year £1,400,000 was allocated for the purpose, alway~ 1mpre_ss on_ the employee the necessity but despite the fact that thousands were for h1s playmg hrs part to give the fullest unemployed in Queensland not a penny of benefit to his hundreds of thousands of that money was spent on the Mt. Isa line. Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 863

If the Government, through the depart­ economy. There is no doubt in the mind of ment, are going to spend £3,300,000 before everyone that Queensland today requires a next June, I should say that they will have railway transport system more than ever to get up a bit of speed between now and before. We are on the verge of great then. We are now in October, and I cannot development requiring transport organisations visualise any movement before the end of the of all kinds to be at their top. It year. was pleasing to learn that the railways have recovered and developed goodwill Mr. Wordsworth: Don't forget the dry to a degree which did not previously weather. exist. Because of efficiency, delivery times to the North are faster than ever before and Mr. WALSH: It will be just too bad for people are therefore more inclined to deal the Government if they have a wet season out with the railways. The railways are a public there such as they have had in the North. convenience, but the general public look for We will find next year that the £3,300,000 efficiency in its service. The customer allocated for this purpose will probably be demands delivery of his goods in the shortest eaten up in some other work that will not possible time. I was delighted to hear the produce a worthwhile result. Minister say that up to 36 hours was the time of delivery of goods between Brisbane Many phases of the department's activities and Townsville. There is some delay in the affect employment generally. First, take yards at Townsville, and the general rate of dieselisation. The Commissioner's report delivery to Cairns after leaving Townsville is reveals that it is responsible for the displace­ virtually the same as the journey from Bris­ ment of some hundreds of steam locomotives, bane to Townsville. No organisation can be the effect being reflected in the amount of efficient unless its employees do a good job employment in various engineering shops and are well treated. throughout Queensland. Employment in the coal industry is reduced. I was amazed to I was delighted also to hear the Minister hear recently in a radio broadcast that coal recount the valuable concessions and amen­ production in Britain last year amounted to ites granted by the Administration to its 240,000,000 tons, that this year it was employees. I recall that one employee with exjected to be 40,000,000 tons less and that nine children was granted passes to the coast approximately 24,000 coal miners would be from a point 400 miles inland. Another displaced. Those are big figures. Dieselisation employee living on the basalt plains where affects employment in Queensland, just as it the temperature rises to great heights was affected the amount of employment and the provided with a refrigerator. And so on economy of other countries in the world. behalf of those men I am only too happy to express appreciation to the Minister for his Some time ago in Bundaberg I introduced help. a deputation to the Minister. I repeat the statement I have made previously that the Mr. Davies: Do you think the people Minister has been very courteous whenever I appreciate air-conditioned trains? have made representations to him on behalf Mr. GILMORE: I believe they do. It is of Bundaberg. He advised me when he would an excellent idea to have air conditioned be visiting Bundaberg and I made arrange­ trains and I give credit to the previous Gov­ ments to introduce these deputations. In the ernment for providing them. But we must course of one of the interviews, when I be fair on this issue. While such trains are stressed the need to allocate work to the of service to the people the Commissioner's Bundaberg foundry, the Minister mentioned report tells us that people are turning to other amo:1g other things the number of diesel loco­ forms of transport. It may be because of motives now operated by the department, and present-day economic conditions. People the fact that the previous Government had today have much more money than they did entered into a 10 years' contract with a under Labour. They can afford motor-cars, particular firm. At that stage he was not air travel, and Pioneer bus tours. That is the prepared to outline the circumstances, but I modern trend, and no-one would want it any should like him to give the name of the firm other way. It is in freight haulage that rail­ and to say whether the contract had Cabinet way traffic should be picking up. Although approval, departmental approval, or minis­ not very much progress has been made to terial approval. I cannot imagine the Govera­ date, I am hopeful that there will be some ment being tied to any particular firm. My increase in due time. attitude would be that all firms should have the right to tender for departmental work on I take the opportunity of thanking the a competitive basis. That would be my Minister for acceding to my request to go to attitude, whether the firm is a Bundaberg the Etheridge area. To the best of my firm, Walkers Ltd., or any other engineering knowledge, no previous Minister had ever firm. I think I am entitled to this information, visited that part of the country. The if the letting of this contract is going to affect Etheridge line was-and still is to a degree the workers in my district. -probably the worst section in Queensland. The means of locomotion are two very small Mr. GILMORE (Tablelands) (8.45 p.m.): under-powered diesel units capable of haul­ The Vote relates to our largest transport ing with great difficulty, two K wagons and organisation one that plays a big role in our one KB wagon. Frequently the train ran 864 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply late anu failed to make the connection with While the transformation in the railway the steam train on time. The area is pre­ there is taking place, I hope there will be dominantly a cattle-raising one. Steam trains a complete review of the passenger services. have gone as far as Mt. Surprise from It is very difficult for women and children Alma-den, and through to Mareeba. The travelling long distances in slow trains with haul to Mt. Surprise from Forsayth and overnight stops and I appeal to the Minister Einasleigh was done by the small diesels. to assist wherever he can. Mt. Surprise trucks over 12,000 head of The railway line between Kairi and Millaa cattle a year. The yards at Einasleigh and Millaa, a new deviation, was very costly and Forsayth were allowed to deteriorate to such could not be expected to pay. It may get an extent that the graziers and small farmers worse and worse as time goes on. In the in the area banded together and improved township of Kairi there is quite a convenient them. On top of the range at Forsayth, one piece of land held by the railway but not of the graziers, Mr. Clark, has built one of used. It is mostly overgrown with weeds the best yards I have ever seen. Cattle can and it costs the department quite a sum to be floated to that point and loaded. care for. Moreover, there is a distinct traffic The people of the area are delighted to hazard in the town. I appeal to the Minister know th?.t the Government are recondition­ to release that land as a public park. It ing the line from Mt. Surprise to Alma-den is only a small strip of land but it could for use by diesel-electric engines. It is help to relieve in no small measure a very expected that steam trains will run from bad traffic hazard. I reserve whatever time there to Mareeba. One great difficulty is I have left for use at a later stage in the coaling the engines at Alma-den. There is debate. I hope the Minister will assist these no chute there, which means that the cattle people in the outback to receive further have to stand in the trucks under the heat amenities. I thank him very much for the of the tropic sun while one man coals two assistance he has already given to the people engines. I know that the Minister is examin­ in my area. ing the matter and I am confident that some Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer-Minis­ improvement will be made. The result will ter for Transport) (9. p.m.): At this juncture be that cattle from the area will reach the I think I should reply to some of the points market in the best possible condition. I hope raised by hon. members on both sides. Hav­ the new diesel engines we have been ing listened attentively to all the speeches I promised, and for which tenders are to be think I can say that very little needs to be called. will be strong enough, or of such answered. It is true that hon. members have capacity, that two of them will equal raised matters more or less directly associated one steam train, or better still, a small diesel. with their own electorates. But this is a We are delighted to know that the small debate on the Railway Estimates and very diesel is now operating between the Table­ often hon. members think that the way the land and Cairns, Kuranda being its terminus operations of the Railway Department affect at the moment. The Minister's aim is to their electorate is one of the most important take it on to Mareeba as time goes on. With matters to place before the Chamber. There­ added inducements and extra service to fore I think they are entitled to raise such people in the Gulf country, we can look issues. On the other hand, I do not think forward to a much greater use of the rail­ that there have been many indications of a ways. ·whereas cattle are now driven from falling-down in any important direction by the Gulf to Julia Creek, through Pentland the department. to Townsville, they will go through Forsayth When I opened the debate I said I realised to the Mareeba factory and to the Cairns when the responsibility of the department meatworks. That will give greater employ­ became mine, that the Railway Department ment in the district and do much for its was not only a large one but one that could development. It is regrettable that the line have a tremendous effect on the whole was allowed to remain in a dilapidated state economy of the State. I do not think hon. for so long. I am very grateful to the members opposite will deny that. If the Minister, and so are the people of the area, railways show a loss-as they have done and for going out to see the conditions under probably will continue to do-whatever which they live. It is a pet statement of amount of money has to be found by the mine, knowing the area and the people, that Treasurer of the day to meet the loss is so they are £500 a year behind scratch. If there much less for spending within Queensland on is a breakdown of a truck or a piece of other projects and facilities that the Govern­ machinery, a windmill or anything else on ment rightly provide. If there is a huge the station, they have to send to Cairns or deficit the Minister for Education gets less Townsville and the delay could be up to money for schools; the Minister for Health three weeks. Distances are great; com­ and Home Affairs receives less money for munications are bad and air-freight charges hospitals; and so I could go through the on pieces of machinery are extremely high. various services and facilities provided by the Living is very expensive all round. The State. If a railway deficit is to mean fewer cost of sending children to school is very school buildings, hospitals, and other facilities high. It is by no means an exaggeration to that should be provided say by the Depart­ say that the people there are at least £500 ment of Agriculture and Stock and other a year behind those who live in the more departments, there is a responsibility on every populated centres. hon. member to do what he can to assist and Supply [22 OCTOBER] Supply 865 advise, and if necessary, criticise. If criticism thought to this question of the establish­ is constructive, if advice is given in a helpful ment of a consultative committee. From manner, who knows but that some of that my inquiries however I reached the con­ advice and criticism may enable the present clusion that in the main such bodies would Government or any future Government to depart from the principles of examining overcome some of the difficulties and so put operational problems and could become the State in a better financial position. That instead an extra medium for advancing is why I welcome the approaches that have wage or other industrial claims, these being been made. I think the Leader of the regarded as an essential prerequisite to Opposition in opening the debate for the participation in the responsibilities of man­ Opposition raised very little that could be agement." regarded as criticism. I believe I can sin­ That was his approach. That was the basis, cerely say that he offered very little that might and that is why he did not appoint the com­ be considered helpful either as far as the mittee. administration of the department is con­ cerned. It is true that he had the responsibility Mr. DUGGAN: I rise to a point of order. of the department for about 10 years; and My first point which causes me to rise to my because of that I thought that with the know­ feet is that in the case of the Minister and ledge and experience he gained in that his leader they promised the establishment of position perhaps he would be able to see a consultative committee, whereas I did not; some holes in the policy of the Government I was asked to establish it. The second point and that he would have stated his ideas in I want to establish is that with regard to the the interests of Queensland. But as is construction of the Ipswich workshops such a typical of him, he coined phrases hoping committee was asked for and formed, and that they would stick for a short time. I plans were submitted to such a committee for have forgotten how many names or phrases their advice, and constructive suggestions the hon. member applied to me when I was flowed from them. a member of the Opposition. I remember Mr. CHALK: I accept the explanation of one, the oracle from Lockyer, and there the Leader of the Opposition. When I was were many others. Today the best he on that side of the Chamber, he used to say could do was to talk about the reluctant to me, "Don't be so impetuous, little boy. debutante. This is a serious debate affecting Wait a while." If he had not been so impetu­ every Queenslander, one that should be ous and had allowed me to develop my argu­ approached by the Leader of the Opposi­ ment, I would have explained the position. I tion in a manner consistent with the import­ have the file with me. I defy the Leader of ance of the position that he holds. But the Opposition to say that at any time during instead he attempted to attract attention by this debate I have attempted to take advant­ getting away from the responsibility that he age of him. I have given him credit for the should carry. things he started. I am prepared to give the Let us look at the points raised by him. basis on which this letter was written. At a Leaving out the things that could be regarded certain period in 1946, prior to the date when as more of a personal attack on me, I think the Leader of the Opposition held the port­ he raised four points, which I propose to folio of Transport, a committee was answer because they deal with essentials in appointed and it operated until 1949, but the my department and concern myself. It is only Leader of the Opposition will know that that proper that they should be discussed in this committee ceased to function because certain Chamber. I take his first point dealing with union interests were not prepared to band consultative committees. He mentioned that themselves together or to discuss problems the Premier in his policy speech, and I, too, that should be considered by such a com­ had said that we believed that a consultative mittee. committee would be helpful to the depart­ I have spoken to the Premier about the ment. I do not deny that. I am still of the reference in his policy Speech to the forma­ same opinion, but I am prepared to say this: tion of such a committee. The matter is After the experience I have had over two being considered at the present time. At the years in the department I believe that when moment I am making inquiries in the South that committee is set up it must be in such as to the position there. The Committee a manner that it will accept full responsibility is being considered on the basis that it must for its decisions and be able to advance be prepared to take a certain stand; it must ideas for the benefit of Queensland as a not as it were accept all care but take no whole. Let us look at the time that the responsibility. Before the Government com­ Leader of the Opposition controlled the affairs plete their present term of office I think of this department. He is critical because so unions will be given the opportunity of being far we have not set up this consultative com­ represented on a committee to discuss certain mittee, but while he was in charge of the matters. It will certainly not deal with indus­ department and the same proposal was made trial problems. That was never intended. to him, did he attempt to establish this con­ The Leader of the Opposition knows only too cultative committee? Not at all. Let me quote well that if such a committee is allowed to what he said in a letter to one of the com­ function in that manner it would not serve the bined railways unions in 1953- purpose intended. I do not think the Govern­ "Following on my appointment as Minis­ ment can be accused at this stage of having ter for Transport I gave considerable fallen down on that issue. 1959-2E 866 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

On my own initiative I called on certain ex~ended on quadruplication. Quadrupli­ union leaders recently to discuss certain mat­ catwn will help us because half of ters with me. I think they have a responsi­ our difficulties are with the bottle-necks in bility, just as I have a responsibility, in respect the metropolitan area. The duplication of of some of the things that are happening in lines will give us the opportunity to move our community. Those union leaders came to more trains, move them faster and to my office and discussed certain problems with move longer trains as well. If we get that me. I think they are better fitted now to there will be development in the State. deal with those problems. The information I gained will help me in dealing with the Reference was made by the Leader of the position. Opposition to the Hytten Report. It is true that the Government engaged Professor Mr. Houston: Would you care to name Hytten to prepare a report on certain activi­ the unions? ties of the Railway Department. It is true also that the report cost the State £1,000, Mr. CHALK: No, I do not think I should. and it is further true that on the legal advice Mr. Houston: Why not? of the Solicitor-General and the advice that we got from a leading Q.C. there are some Mr. CHALK: I told those union leaders things in that report which, because of certain things and they told me of some Professor Hytten's interest in both rail and things of which they were aware. In that road transport, should not be published while way we worked together, the unions and the we face certain difficulties associated with Government, in the interests of the people Section 92 of the Commonwealth Constitu­ of Queensland and of railway employees. tion. I told the hon. gentleman and other hon. member who questioned me why the The Leader of the Opposition also raised report has not been tabled. I think the the question of electrification. The Govern­ Government should heed the legal advice ment .·at no time said that they would not tendered to them. I do not think any hon. electnfy the Brisbane system. Electrification member would want me to lay only half plans were laid down some 10 years ago. the report on the table. It is my opinion Quadruplication, which is linked closely with that the whole of it should be tabled at the electrification, has been in progress for a appropriate time. I assure the hon. member number of years. As I said before, I was that the Government are already acting on astounded to find that the work had been some of the professor's recommendations, and spread from Sandgate to Ipswich. That is in this regard my Cabinet colleagues and I the area that electrification will ultimately are discharging our responsibilities in the serve. I feel that it should be concentrated best interests of the State. on certain areas to get some return for the capital invested. Consequently the Govern­ The Leader of the Opposition referred also ment are going ahead with quadruplication to a statement that I made at a time when to the fullest extent that the Loan Vote will we were badly in need of rolling stock. I permit, and when we reach the stage when did suggest then that the Minister of the day some of the line can be operated, it will be should search not only the Commonwealth the responsibility of the Government to make but overseas countries and buy any equip­ a decision on how the electrification scheme ment off the hook that he could get. I will proceed. Look at the position in South realised then, as I do now, how important Australia, where some years ago the Govern­ that equipment is to the development of ment undertook an electrification scheme. Queensland. At that time the Leader of Because that Government believed in dieseli­ the Opposition placed orders for equipment sation and the use of small rail motors there of which we are now taking delivery. We is operating in that State _now what is known do not deny that, but I point out that we as the Red Hen type of rail unit which is are now also paying for it and we have no able to transport passengers in two or four money to purchase other very necessary or six units. If at the week-end the depart­ equipment. We have now embarked on a ment wants to run an excursion to Victor five-year plan for the spending of Harbour it can split the units up. The units £10,000,000. Given the opportunity, I can be used for any line and they give a believe that we shall be able to prove to good service. I am not saying that the the people of Queensland that our approach system is absolutely suitable to Brisbane, will lead to the development not only of but until we have some idea as to when this the railway service, but of the State as a big task can be undertaken financially we whole. should not put all our resources into one scheme. Mr. Duggan: I should like your help on Mr. Duggan: Excuse me a moment. I one point. How could we have spent that mentioned this morning that the Premier money on rolling stock and still bought 150 stated that electrification would not be started locomotives off the hook? for some years. Mr. CHALK: I have already said that Mr. CHALK: I do not know the statement the Leader of the Opposition ordered the to which the hon. member is referring but equipment at that time. He then had a personally I think it will be some time before better knowledge of the finances of his we know how much money will have to be department than I had. Similarly, at the Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 867 present time I claim to have a better know­ prepared to offer the transport of their ledge of my department's finances that he commodities back to the department. It is has. If I was wrong at that time I would prepared to provide the wagons and to do be the first to admit it. I also said that all that it can to bring to the coastal areas if I had the money I would tour the world quickly that commodity so precious to the to buy equipment. The expenditure of huge sums of money has prevented us from grazier and the State. getting equipment that we believe should have The hon. member for Sherwood devoted been purchased some time ago. most of his time to the subject of the estab­ I wish now to refer briefly to the hon. lishment of a safety section in the railways member for Belyando, who made a worth­ and I thank him for his contribution. I know while contribution to the debate. I admit something of the conference that took place that in my opening remarks I made no in Brisbane some months ago. When the special reference to Central Queensland. matter was mentioned to me by the hon. Neither did I say anything about Roma or member for Sherwood I inquired about it Charleville for example; I dealt with no par­ through the Commissioner. We have sought ticular area. All I referred to this morning from the New South Wales Government full was some of the development that is taking details of their safety programme. I do not place, particularly with air-conditioned say we will be able to fit it completely into trains and the changes in goods services to the operations of the Queensland Railways the North. However, I assure the hon. but we will give it the fullest consideration. member that we are mindful of the needs The saving of one life is important and the of Central Queensland and are doing every­ department will accept its responsibility and thing possible to bring about the develop­ do what it can to protect its men. However, ment that he desires. He referred to the fact it has been my experience that very often that fettlers and others were using more or men do not use the safety equipment provided. less prehistoric equipment. However some Some time ago it was brought to my notice jobs done by fettlers and others cannot be that the men did not like to wear the safety handled in any other way than with the goggles provided in the workshops. Some pick and shovel. On the other hand, track men are prepared to take the risk and it is maintenance has been greatly mechanised. questionable whether they should be forced In the last two years we have introduced to wear them. The issue of respirators was vibrators, mechanical equipment for drilling discussed some time ago. Many employees and cutting rails, and equipment for boring say they are too hot; they are prepared_ to and adzing sleepers, and we are using air take the risk. Those are some of the diffi­ compressors in many places. We have culties that the department has to face up to. bought heavy bulldozers, graders and other One is never certain whether one is doing items of equipment, giving the department the right or wrong thing. the benefits of this advanced mechanical age. But there will always be some work that One of the most remarkable contributions must be carried out by hand and all I hope to the debate was made by the hon. member is that we will find the fettlers to do it. I for Kedron. Since I have been in the have a high admiration for them. They Chamber I have held the hon. member in work under very adverse conditions and high regard but today he just bewildered me. deserve the respect and thanks of the people I do not know whether he was completely of Queensland for the part they are playing asleep during my early remarks or JUSt in to keep the railways operating. his usual dream, but the very matters I mentioned were the matters he raised, the The hon. member for Mundingburra spoke things he said should be done. To my com­ of the advisory committee, a subject that was plete bewilderment the hon. member spoke raised by the Leader of the Opposition. I about matters that had already been discussed, have already referred to it. He spoke, too, matters which I pointed out as being objec­ of "selling" the railways by advertising. tives the Government desired to achieve. Perhaps the department could advertise more He mentioned conductors. Conductors than it does but in recent months it has spent on air-conditioned trains work under exaclly quite a sum on advertising and I believe we the same conditions with exactly the same can point to results. The department is facilities as they _had under the previous mindful of the part played by advertising Government. He suggests that we should through newspapers and radio and the trend provide sleepers for employees who ai"e paid towards telling people what you have to sell. for working from the time they step onto I think I should correct him on his the train until they get off it. Th<::y are reference to employees winning back the paid, they have a responsibility and a duty. wool traffic. Thanks for that should go not It is their responsibility to see that certam so much to the ordinary railway employees people leave trains at. particular. times,. that as to the goodwill officers. They are going other people enter trams at partlcular times. Surely the hon. member is not going to sug­ out with zeal and initiative to point out to gest that we should provide sleepers for graziers and others that, if the railway employees actually engaged on active duty! employees did sin in 1956 when the wool There is provided, and was provided . by the strike was on, at least they should be previous Government when the tram was forgiven and that westerners should be designed, a special seat for them. When 868 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply they travel on a non-air-conditioned train a member for Sherwood said, all new plants cabin is made available for them. I am are being equipped up to the standard of astounded that any hon. member, whether a the general specification. I believe as time member of the previous Government or a goes on we will be able to make certain member of the present Opposition, should that much old equipment and old electrical make such a suggestion. We want the men installation are brought up to the necessary to give service. We believe they give a specification that applies to undertakings out­ very good service. As I say, I was absolutely side. astounded to hear the hon. member suggest The hon. member for Mulgrave made that they should be provided with a bed to some comments regarding North Queensland. sleep on when they should be working. I appreciate the hon. member's keenness; I The hon. member for Bremer has been in know that the hon. member is trying to do t~e Chamber for m~ny years. He is recog­ what he can for the people he represents. msed as usually bemg very fair. He was The hon. member and also the hon. member on this occasion. Today he referred to the for Cook raised the matter of the speeding need for electrification of the railways. No up of the air-conditioned train on the journey doubt he was very mindful of the need in to Brisbane. That matter does worry me. It his area to use coal. I came from the same is true that we could cut out a number of district and therefore am also very mindful stopping places in order to save time. But that the coal-mining industry has played a I ask those hon. members-what ones will big part in the development of Queensland. we cut out? Immediately you attempt to take Consequently it is not an industry that can away a service that has been provided for be just brushed aside. On the other hand the public, and which they appreciate, you diesel_isation is a feature of railway progres~ will immediately have protests and rightly !hat IS here. As we modernise naturally it so. That is why I say to the hon. member Is necessary to use less coal. It is true that for Mulgrave that if he can devise a scheme if electrification comes considerable quantities and point out to me where we can delete a ?f coal :Vill ~e used. It is equally true that stop, and if he will be prepared to say to If e1ectnficatwn becomes a reality it will the people in his area that for the benefit provide further work for certain electrical of the general community that stop should establishments in the State. be deleted, then I am prepared to take some I recall that the hon. member for Mt. notice of it. I looked into the matter of Gravatt interjected when the hon. member altering the arriving and stopping time of for Bremer was speaking and said that in his those trains. Owing to the spacing between own electorate there was one engineering Brisbane and Rockhampton, Rockhampton firm that was making electric motors. That and Mackay and Townsville and Cairns, or is true. The hon. member was referring to vice versa, it is extremely difficult to get the English Electric Co., whose works I had a train arriving at what we might term the the opportunity of looking over some time major cities at a convenient time. That was ago. Its product is second to none, and it one of the difficulties we experienced. could l?rovide this essential equipment but, On the other hand I commend the hon. as I said, we cannot meet the electrification member for his suggestion on fencing until we have quadruplication nearing com­ arrangements along that line. The Comm_is­ pletion. Another point was that this Govern­ sioner recently put forward a proposal With m~nt had given an undertaking to bring the which I agreed, to allow cane farmers to rmlway workshops under the Factories and shift railway fences virtually onto the line, Shops Acts. I do not recall having made the idea being that those farmers would be such a bald statement; but even if we con­ responsible for the complete elimination of cede that that is true, as was pointed out by Guinea grass, the cause of many fires on the hon. member for Sherwood, this is not cane farms. We have not gone as far as something that can be achieved in three to allow them to grow a patch of potatoes years. We have gone further than our pre­ or some other crop along the line, but I am decessors. The health of the community is prepared to consider any proposal. )3y agree­ of the greatest importance to the Govern­ ing to the Commissioner's suggestion the fire ment. We have given permission for a hazard at least will be eliminated in the area, Health Department inspector to enter the and farmers will be given an opportunity to workshops and point out to the manage­ protect their properties and assist the Rail­ ment, the Chief Mechanical Engineer, and way Department. the Commissioner the need for better services The hon. member for Mulgrave referred within the workshops, if he considers they to the period of two months in bookings on are necessary. Heaven only knows the the air-conditioned trains. I have considered deplorable condition of sanitation that had that matter. When I became Minister for been permitted under the administration of Transport the period was 28 days. Many the previous Government. One need only complaints were received about long queues go to any workshops of the Railway Depart­ of people trying to book accommodation on ment in Queensland, except the new ones, to these trains. They said the queues were so see the primitive conditions that employees long it was obvious that they would have no were asked to work under by the Labour chance of booking on the train. From the Government. At least we have made a forth­ reports I have received I think that the exten­ right approach to this matter. As the hon. sion of the period to two months is an Supply [22 OcTOBER] Supply 869 improvement, as it spreads the demand over Account as it was loan money and has noth­ a greater period, and the train is booked to ing to do with the revenue of the department. full capacity. The problem cannot be solved Every penny derived from the sale of stock by an alteration in the period for booking. was returned to the Loan Suspense Account It can be solved only when another train so that men on construction work could be is available. kept in full-time employment. The hon. member criticised the Government for not For six years while I was in Opposition facing up to their responsibilities. Was he I made a speech once a year on the air­ prepared to accept his responsibility by study­ conditioned train that had been started at ing the report and knowing something of the the direction of my predecessor in the workings of the department? He should not Ipswich railway workshops. For six years have made false statements which do credit a small amount of money was put aside for neither to him nor the electors he represents. work on this train. ·when I became Minister If he wants to criticise the Railway Depart­ for Transport I said, "We will finish that ment he should know what he is talking train. That is essential. If we do not use about. Anybody can make a fool of himself. it as a standard train, we will at least have We heard a speech by the hon. member carriages which can be used on the present for Keppel but I do not think there was one air~conditioned units." Prior to that time thing in it to which I should reply. After no replacement carriages were available to all, it was just a tirade of abuse, something take the place of those under repair. I written for him and something he read think four if not five carriages have been just rather badly. Contrast his speech with that about completed. They will be utilised with of the hon. member for Rockhampton who the present air-conditioned units. offered constructive criticism. I admire his The hon. member for Rockhampton men­ approach and the way he represents his tioned certain improvements that were needed electorate; he has a knowledge of the require­ in that area. In time we may be able to ments of the people and does not come in manage those undertakings. At least the here with something written which he could Government, during the time they have been not read. We on this side could not under­ in office, will finish the train which the pre­ stand the hon. member for Keppel. vious Government started six years ago. I want to devote some of my time to the When I became Minister for Transport not remarks of the hon. member for Bundaberg. a penny was being spent on it, and it was I have always recognised that he has certain just idle stock in the Ipswich railway work­ capabilities because of his years of service shops. in this Parliament. He is a man who in some The hon. member for Cook spoke of instances has been pushed around but has a knowledge of the department. It is true, as cattle wagons. As I said earlier today, the he said, that we have reduced the Vote from department has ordered another 100 wagons. Loan for the constructional side from roughly I hope money can be found for more of this £3.3 million to £2 ..86 million. It is equally equipment, because I realise the importance true, as he said, that we have provided a of the cattle industry. Having regard to the large sum for the reconstruction of the Mt. available funds, however, we must hasten Isa line. I believe that before 30 June next slowly. The haulage of cattle is good busi­ year we will spend a large amount of the ness. It produces revenue and the Govern­ £3,300,000 that has been set aside. That is ment have an obligation to provide equip­ one reason why the construction Vote has ment for that class of trade. been reduced; we realise that we shall need The hon. member for South Brisbane dis­ money for the Mt. Isa project. However, cussed fares and freight charges. It was there will be a saving in the normal main­ apparent from his speech that with his earlier tenance charges on that line. I point out railway experience he realised some of the that the money taken from that Vote will difficulties of the department and the Govern­ be put into circulation in the purchase of ment. essential equipment. I shall now spend a few moments replying Mr. Walsh: You have only an increase of to the hon. member for Maryborough. He £211,000 in the figure for general revenue. astounds me. Hon. members know that when Mr. CHALK: That is true, but with the I was in Opposition I was critical of the advent of dieselisation and more economical previous Government. I think that most of haulage, we can cut down to some extent on the Opposition or those with whom I come working expenses. in contact are able to sav that when I threw something into the ring- at least there was Mr. Walsh: The increase in the basic wage something behind it. The hon. member criti­ will cost you a good deal. cised the Government, pointing out that we would have had a greater deficit than shown in Mr. CHALK: We have made some allow­ the Estimates if we had not sold all this ance for increased costs. Any Government equipment. The hon. member is an ex-school worth their salt would do that when bud­ teacher. His methods of bookkeeping are geting. No-one can say definitely what the not sound. His responsibility to the electors extra cost will be. he represents is to read the Commissioner's The other point raised by the hon. member report and know what he is talking about. related to a statement that I made at The money went into the Loan Suspense Bundaberg on repair work to locomotives. 870 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Questions

I was asked to provide work for the Bunda­ berg Foundry, but I had to refuse the request. In days gone by many locomotives were ia need of attention. However, as our own workshops overtook the lag in other types of repair work, we transferred a larger proportion of locomotive work to them. I think the hon. member himself would agree with the wisdom of that step. I believe it was in 1952 that the Government of the day, through their Minister, gave a certain under­ taking. I cannot say whether it was a Cabinet decision or not because the previous Government kept no permanent record of Cabinet decisions as we do today. Probably a note was made on the bottom either of a minute or of a submission made by our predecessors. I will check on that to satisfy the curiosity of the hon. member. However, Commonwealth Engineering Company, the company to which the hon. member referred, was given a contract by my predecessor, now the Leader of the Opposition, or an under­ taking that a certain number of locomo­ tives-20 or up to 20 a year-would be given that company over the next 10 years. I understand that the basis of the general negotiations was that Commonwealth Engin­ eering would provide certain machinery so that the work could be carried out quickly. That is the whole story. Mr. Walsh: But the other firms were given the same opportunity. Mr. CHALK: I am not responsible for the actions of the previous Government or the previous Minister. I am telling the Committee the facts as I know them. That undertaking was given and I told the hon. member for Bundaberg at Bundaberg that I was not prepared to break a contract or faith that was given by his Government or their predecessors. The responsibilty is there. When the contract is completed, Common­ wealth Engineering will be on a par with any other company in the State. Mr. Walsh: I think I did say to you that the other firms, Evans Deakin and the Bundaberg Foundry, had similar rights. Mr. CHALK: I agree. They may have had similar rights. They may have had similar opportunities. I do not know. Mr. Walsh: The first contracts were given to Evans Deakin back in 1944-1945. Mr. CHALK: My recollection of the events is as I have pointed out to the hon. mem­ ber. My predecessor who was a responsible Minister of the Government, no doubt through the Commissioner, awarded this par­ ticular contract-call it what you like-of up to 20 locomotives to Commonwealth Engineering, for a period of 10 years. We are continuing that contract because of that obligation. At 9.55 p.m., under Standing Order No. 307 and Sessional Order agreed to by the House on 16 October, progress was reported. The House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.