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Lukas Ligeti: Myslím, Že Som Si Vytvoril Citlivosť Na Ne- Dostatok Demokracie

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Lukas Ligeti: Myslím, Že Som Si Vytvoril Citlivosť Na Ne- Dostatok Demokracie ROZHOVOR Ale áno. Môj otec sa vždy znepokojoval týmito vecami a vždy sa snažil pomáhať. Keď som bol mladý, aj ja som bol zapojený do pomoci, napríklad pri úniku na Západ. Rodičia vám teda vysvetľovali všetko čo sa dialo? Áno. Aj vďaka tomu som si uvedomoval, aké mám šťastie, že som nikdy nemusel žiť v so- vietskom bloku. Ako dieťa som bol niekoľkokrát v Maďarsku. Nechodil som tam často, nemal som tam najbližšiu rodinu. Obaja moji starí otcovia a strýko zahynuli v koncentrákoch. Ma- mina mama žila vo Švajčiarsku. Otcova mama dostala v roku 1968 povolenie Maďarsko opustiť. Moji rodičia sa mohli prvýkrát vrátiť do Maďar- ska v roku 1970 kvôli koncertu môjho otca. Pred cestou ma inštruovali, že rozprávať sa budeme až po návrate. Báli sa, že nás budú v hoteli odpočúvať. Bol som aj na školskej exkurzii vo východnom Nemecku, aj v Argentíne počas vo- jenskej diktatúry. Všade bola rovnaká bezútešná atmosféra. Smútok, šeď, beznádej. Vo Viedni nás občas navštevovali priatelia z Nemecka alebo Maďarska. Bolo mi ľúto, že sa museli vrátiť, do niečoho, čo vyzeralo ako väzenie. Boli to milí ľudia. Boli takí uvoľnení a tešili sa, že sú aspoň na chvíľu na slobode. Lukas Ligeti: Myslím, že som si vytvoril citlivosť na ne- dostatok demokracie. Preto trpím súčasnou Najťažšie sa dosahujú veci, situáciou v USA, kde sa mi zdá, že postupne ktoré máme najbližšie. prichádzame o slobodu. Často cestujete z kontinentu na konti- L. Ligeti (foto: M. Sepperer) nent. Kde sa cítite doma? Doma sa cítim všade tam, kde sú milí ľudia Lukas Ligeti je jediným synom skladateľa Györgyho Ligetiho. Do Bratislavy a kde môžem robiť zaujímavé veci. Vzdal som zavítal po prvý raz v júni a prešiel sa aj po miestach, ktoré v Bratislave sa myšlienky, že budem niekde úplne doma. navštívil György Ligeti. Osud mojej rodiny a môj životný príbeh ma predurčili byť kozmopolitom. Najviac času som prežil v New Yorku, cítim sa tam veľmi Pripravila Oľga SMETanovÁ dobre no zároveň aj ako outsider, vlastne takmer všade som tak trochu outsider. Mo- Vyrastali ste vo Viedni a až doteraz ste števa sa uskutočnila na začiatku demokratic- mentálne mám hlavnú základňu v Južnej Bratislavu nenavštívili. Nie je to zvláštne? kého procesu v roku 1991. Presne 16. októb- Kalifornii. Áno, vyrastal som vo Viedni a Bratislava bola ra 1991 bola jeho hudba uvedená na prvom blízko, ale počas mojich detských a študent- festivale Melos Étos v podaní Pierra-Lau- Pôsobíte ako asistent na Kalifornskej ských čias nebolo jednoduché prísť na Slo- renta Aimarda. Keď prišiel do Bratislavy, bol univerzite v Irvine. vensko bez toho, aby ste na to mali konkrétny chorý. Ostal krátko, pretože sa musel vrátiť Vyučujem integrovanú skladbu, improvizá- dôvod. Po páde železnej opony som hrával do nemocnice. Vedeli ste ako malý chlapec, ciu a technológie južne od Los Angeles. Stále ako bubeník v súbore Kombinat M, často sme čo sa deje za železnou oponou? Hovorili ste som doma aj vo Viedni a v Johannesburgu. účinkovali v Maďarsku, dokonca aj v Prahe, o tom doma? Trávim tiež veľa času vo Wagadugu v Burkina ale nikdy nie na Slovensku. V roku 1994 som Povedal by som, že moji rodičia boli touto Faso. Všetky tieto miesta sú pre mňa akýmsi sa presťahoval do USA. Do Rakúska som sa témou posadnutí. Zažili komunizmus, prežili domovom. vracal často, no trávil som čas so svojou mat- nacizmus a neustále o tom hovorili. kou a otcom, ktorý v tom čase ešte žil. Nie- Zdá sa, že všetky tieto miesta ovplyvňujú kedy sa najťažšie dosahujú veci, ktoré máme Boli vďační za to, že mohli žiť v slobodnej hudbu, ktorú píšete. Ako by ste charakterizo- najbližšie. Som veľmi rád, že som konečne tu, krajine? vali svoj hudobný štýl? a dúfam, že sa sem budem vracať. Mimoriadne vďační. Všetky tieto miesta ovplyvňujú moju hudbu rovnako ako iné miesta, kde nie som doma. Váš otec navštívil Slovensko dvakrát. Váš otec pomáhal mnohým umelcom za Robím veľa rôznych druhov hudby, komponu- V roku 1968 bol pozvaný na Smolenické se- železnou oponou. Naďa Hrčková o ňom ho- jem klasickú hudbu, veľa improvizujem, hrám mináre. Bolo to krátke obdobie, keď sa v Čes- vorila nielen ako o geniálnom skladateľovi, elektronickú hudbu, pracujem s africkými koslovensku otvorilo okno do slobodného ale ako o mimoriadnom človeku, ktorý aj jej tradičnými hudobníkmi. Na prvý pohľad to vy- sveta. Na konci svojho pobytu bol svedkom pomohol v ťažkom období po roku 1968. zerá ako rôzne druhy hudby. Ale ak sa pozriete invázie sovietskych tankov. Jeho druhá náv- Viete o tom? pod povrch, všimnete si, že len toho istého na- 16 10 | 2019 ROZHOVOR hého cisára obliekam do iných šiat. Zaujímajú Znepokojoval ma problém spojený s tým, že Naozaj? Vaša skladba Pattern Transforma- ma polymetrické, polyrytmické a polytempové keď vidíte interpretov elektronickej hudby tion je taká zložitá, že by som si nemyslela, štruktúry. V západnej hudbe sme už pred mno- hrať, ich pohyby neladia s tým, čo hrajú. že ju možno napísať bez toho, aby ste vedeli hými rokmi prišli na to, že môžeme hrať naraz V Stanforde som sa o tomto chcel rozprávať so hrať na marimbe. viac ako jeden tón. Z toho vznikli intervaly, svojimi kolegami skladateľmi, ale ich to vôbec Pattern Transformation je skladba, ktorej harmónie, konsonancie a disonancie. Snažím nezaujímalo. zložitosť vychádza zo vzájomného prepojenia sa to isté spraviť s rytmom a tempom. Nie som rôznych častí. Nejde tu o písanie pre nástroj, prvý, kto robí polymetrickú hudbu. Chcem Myslíte si, že rozpor v auditívnom a vizu- skôr ide o premýšľanie nad tým, ako sa hráči vytvárať napätie a uvoľnenie a spolieham sa, álnom vneme komplikuje percepciu? navzájom koordinujú. Skladba Thinking Songs že to dosiahnem superpozíciou tempa a rytmu. Áno. Dnes o tomto probléme hovoria všetci je pre marimbu skutočne technicky náročná. Výsledkom je iný spôsob počúvania hudby tak moji študenti v Irvine. Pred 25 rokmi to ne- Ale mnoho skladateľov napísalo technicky u poslucháča, ako aj interpreta. Pre mňa je bol pre skladateľov vôbec problém, bol to len náročné skladby pre nástroj, na ktorom vôbec kľúčové sledovať spôsoby myslenia pri počúva- problém pre mňa. Podľa mňa treba používať nehrajú. Môj otec napríklad napísal svoje ní a hraní hudby. MIDI nástroje, pretože ich môžeme ovládať Etudy pre klavír. Síce na klavíri hral, ale Etu- podobne ako. Ale väčšina ľudí preferuje note- dy by nezvládol. Prečo siahate po elektronike? booky a nechce ísť k podstate, k niečomu, čo Väčšina súčasných hudobných skladateľov je rozpoznateľné podobne ako nástroj. Myslela som si, že ste študovali hru na používa elektronickú hudbu kvôli novým bicích nástrojoch, teda aj marimbu. farbám, odtieňom – ako napríklad spektra- Používate elektronickú Marimbu Luminu. Vôbec nie. Študoval som na Viedenskej hu- listi. Aj mňa zaujíma farba, ale môj záujem Je to MIDI ovládač založený na magnetických dobnej akadémii a väčšinu nástrojov tam vy- o elektroniku pochádza skôr zo štrukturál- poliach. učovali hráči z Viedenskej filharmónie, ktorá nych dôvodov. S elektronikou môžem vytvárať má svoju vlastnú zvukovú kultúru. Neradi nové typy hudobných štruktúr, nové hudobné Keby som Vás videla hrať na Marimba prijímajú študentov, ktorí sú už vyškolení formy. Umožňuje flexibilitu ladenia, možnosť Lumina naživo, rozpoznám vzťah medzi tým, inými ľuďmi. Radšej berú začiatočníkov. Začal tvoriť nové rytmy, melódie a podobne. čo vidím, a tým, čo počujem? som ako tympanista a tiež trochu ako hráč G. Ligeti na Smolenických seminároch 1968 (foto: archív) G. Ligeti pred prednáškou o Klavírnych etudách na festivale Melos-Étos 1991 (foto: archív) Svojim nástrojom pridávate špeciálne Áno, je možné pochopiť vzťah medzi hraným na xylofóne. Ale čoskoro som si našiel učiteľa črty, ktoré by inak nemali. Ako sólista môžete a počutým, ale nebude to úplne jasné. jazzových bicích. Vždy ma zaujímala impro- dosiahnuť zvuk súboru. vizácia. Ako hráč som výlučne improvizátor. Nechcem sa zbavovať hudobníkov. Väčšina Vaše skladby pre marimbu významne Nehrávam zapísanú hudbu. hudobníkov, s ktorými spolupracujem, hrajú obohatili literatúru pre tento nástroj. na nástrojoch lepšie ako ja. Ale ako sólový Dúfam, že áno, hoci to nebol zámer. Nikdy Ale komponujete riadne notované sklad- umelec mám možnosť rozšíriť možnosti svoj- som neplánoval napísať niečo špeciálne pre by... ho nástroja. marimbu. A nenapísal som toho až tak veľa. Áno. Pre iných ľudí skladby zapisujem. Thin- Napísal som Thinking Song. king Songs je takto napísaná skladba, ale ja by Ako profesor kompozície prinášate tie- som ju nikdy nemohol hrať. Jediná marim- to myšlienky študentom. Je váš pohľad na Áno, počula som ich. Sú extrémne ná- bistka, ktorá zahrala celú skladbu, je neuve- technický vývoj v oblasti hudby optimistický, ročné. riteľná virtuózka Ji Hye Jung, ktorá pochádza alebo skôr pesimistický? Bolo pre mňa veľmi náročné napísať túto z Kórey a vyučuje na Vanderbilt University Mnohí študenti sú v používaní elektroniky skladbu. Je to najťažšia skladba, aká bola v Nashville. Je jednou z najlepších hudobní- omnoho pokročilejší ako ja, pretože nie som kedy napísaná pre marimbu. čok, ktoré som v živote stretol. Jej úroveň hry programátor. Študenti sú často aj vývojári na marimbe je porovnateľná s klaviristami hudobného softvéru. Majú úplne iný spô- Ste skladateľ súčasnej hudby, hráte na ako Arthur Rubinstein, Vladimir Horowitz ale- sob myslenia. Je zaujímavé sledovať, ako sa bicích v niekoľkých súboroch rôznych žán- bo Alfred Brendel. Ja nie som taký hráč. vyvíjajú a menia názory v tejto oblasti. Keď rov. Ako môže mať niekto tak veľa rôznych som prvýkrát začal s hudobnou elektronikou polôh? S hudbou ste začali pomerne neskoro. v polovici deväťdesiatych rokov, strávil som V New Yorku to nie je nič zvláštne. Ale ja som Neštudovali ste ju s otcom? dva roky ako hosťujúci študent na Stanfor- väčšinou bubeník. Nie som klasický perkusi- Nie. Nikdy. Ako dieťa som vždy spieval. Vždy dovej univerzite. Všetci programovali v Lisp. onista. Neviem hrať na marimbe.
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