Wednesday, April 3, 1968 1R Fourth Series . 36 Chaitra 14, 1890 (Saka)
/2.6$%+$ '(%$7(6
Fourth Session Fourth/RN6DEKD
/2.6$%+$6(&5(7$5,$7 New Delhi Rs:1.00 , CONTENTS , No. 36.-Wedmsday, April 3, 19581Chaitra 14, IS90 (Sakal.
CoLUMNS
()ra~ l\;.:swr;rs to QUl!stions-
·Starred Questions No~. 1018 to 1023 IS23-S7 Shon Notice Question No. 16 18S7--6~
Written Answers to Questions - Starred Questions Nos. 1024 to 1047 Unstarred Questions Nos. 6205,6207 t,) 6213. 6215 to 621S, 6221 to 6299 and 6301 .1878-1944 Calling Attention to Matter of Urgent Public Importance- Escape of Mr. Shatt Syed Hussain, Municipal Commissi- oner ofJorhat to East Pakistan. 1 94oi-So Question of Privilege Against Chairman of S.T.C. . 1950-S7 Pdp:rs Laid on the Table 1957-58
Commit'e: on Ptivlte M!mb~i Rills anj Re~()lutions Twenty-sixth Report E Motion to recommend to Rajy .. Sabha t,) fill vacancies in Joint Committee 11)58-59 Demands for Grants, 1968-69 1959-2035.2036-1)8 Ministry of Education 1959-2035,2036--61) Shrimati Tara Sapre 1960~1 Shri Bal Raj Madhok 1961-73 Shri Barrow _ 1973-81 Shri Yamuna Prasad M'Indal 1981-86 Shri S.M. Joshi 1987-95 Shri Sher Singh . 1998-:1ocn -The sign + marked above the nam: of a Memb=r indicates that the question was actuaUyukedon theftoor of the Hous: hy that Member. 130(Al) :LS.Q-L Oi) • CoLUMNS Shri S. Kandappan . 2003-tl9 Shri Nar Deo Snatak 2009-15, Shri C. Janardhanan. 2015-2 \ Shri Bimal Kanti Ghosh 2021-24· Shri J .B. Kripalani • 2024-31 Shri D.C. Sharma . 2031-35 Shri Samar Guha 2036-42 Shri Shiv Kumar Shastri 2042-46 Shrimati Laxmi Bai 2047-51 Dr. Triguna Sen 2052-62 '-iinistry of External Affairs· 2069-92- Shri M.R. Masani 200 70 - 85 Shri Shradhakar Supakar 2085-88 Statement re: inddents relating to Harijans 2035-36 Shri Y.B. Chavan 2035-36 Business of the House Half-an-hour Discussion reo ran~ion of trade with Socialist countries . • 20092-10 Shri Kameshwllr Singh • 2009l-96 Shri Mohd. Shafi Quereshi 210(}-10 LOK SABBA DEBAT1!'.S LOK SABRA ~ T ClfTq1<: ;;NT ~ur ~ ~ ~ Wednudall, April 3, 1968IChaitra 14. 1m:iPN ~ (t if w.rr ~ t I II'J1JI' 1890 (Salea) ~1 cf ~ it wtGriWtif it; ~ it ~ ~ q'f Ill; ~ ~ ~ it; 1ffiJ ~ The Lolc Sabha met at Eleven of the irniti ~~~~ t I ~ Clock. ;nrt if; SI'llA' ~ of flA q:r snit it ~ {MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] it ~ if ~ ~ ~ lIlIl'f 1hf\' ~ ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS t~~~ r- ri ~ ~ SIlfIOf t:RfT ~ ~ ifflr.t '1ft ttIT Visit by General Ne Win of Bmrma ~ t fit; ~ '{;; vrnrrf'l'lfT ~ ~ 'tit ~ t ~ ~ u if; ~ it fHtt '1018. SHRI BENI SHANKER lf1Iil': It>! l ~ liT ~ mrf.f SHARMA: 'tit ~1 r- ri lI>'t vfi? llft 5i'. (8) whether General Ne Win, Burma's Head of State, visited India 11ft .0 '(To 'IfIfi'r: ~ m it ~ if in March, 1968; ;r-;ri ~ ~ vfi 'fh: ~ ~ q'{ (b) if 80, the nature of the discus- ~ i! ! 6~ i l~R ""it ~ '{fI' sions held; and 1fT1f.t 'fit ~ if tf<'I 'l': rit if: ;rr7 it ~ (c) the outcome thereof? ~ THE MINISrER OF STATE IN 'TIlE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AF- 11ft !i~ If!lR Ijifi """ FAIRS (SHRI B. R. BHAGAT): (a) _aft "'": ;;n;fflt ~ fit; ;rrlTr ~ ~ 'IfI;f to (c). Chairman of the Revolutionary fimit Council of the Union of Burma, Gene- ",1 ~ t f¥f ;nrt lfft ~ IIi't m ral Ne Win, accompanied by Madame ~.rr.r ;;rrit ~ I ~ ~lli if ~ .-4'f Ne Win, paid an informal visit to ;:mmif It>T 1ft 'i{U ~ ~ (1m India from March 15 to March 22, i. 1"18. Opportunity was taken to have ~ If'IIt ~ li ~ ~ qfun 11ft an exchange of view, on matlen of ~i rl !1lRi m ~t I ~~ mutual Interest. It Is not customary t If!lR it; m'frl iI'T 11ft _0 Uo ll'iTt'r: lfTiT;f\"1i ~ "I ;fo ~ro 1l'1'RI' : ~~ CTlti (IJ !fiT ~ ~ 1ITOJ:f ~ f "" 8"11' ... iii ~.(1 ;;ft ~r.r ~ MR. SPEAKER: Maybe so. But the i('IfT ~ ~ if; orrt it 'r'§'lT ~ main question is: ~ ~i om i ~ I "Whether General Ne Win, SHRI HlMATSINGKA: May I knOW Burma's Head of State visited whether any claim was put forward India in March, 1968; if so, the by Burma about the Islands near nature of the discussions held." Andaman and Nicobar? He S'ays that they did not talk about C'TiRT B, H. BHAGAT: No, Sir. this. So. it does not arise. ~-1. ~6 ~ : rn lilT 11~~ ltiT SHRI NARENDRA SINGH ~ ~ drri" if lfltirfuCT MAHIDA: Some years back some per- sons of Indian origin, before leaving ~ ~ i('IfT ~ 'ilJ oiR flI; f.\lf1vr Burma for India, handed over their ~ r 1ff Wlf flI;fI'f l'fr·fT'{T f'f'fTlT gold and other jewellery to the Indian iii ~~m 1R ~ l 'Tit ~ <'f SHRI PILOO MODY: Did they dis- SHRI B. R. BBAGAT: There II no cuss the sharing of the spoils? question of any joint patrolling. SHRI SWELL: There are reports in SHRI HEM BARUA: Under the the newspapers that following the cover of the so-called 8uspenaioD of visit of Gen. Ne Win the Government operations agreement, the Nags hos- of India and the Government of tiles have established contacts with Burma have agreed to jointly set China via Kachin area of Bunna and up a security corridor along the Indo- it has been reported that two top Burmese frontier. I wOuld like to Nitga underground leaders with their know whether there is any truth in followers have already gone to Ka.. hin those reports and whether this parti- area to go to Peking. Now the IUI- cular subject was discussed with Gen. ·pension of operation agreement is Ne Win. If this report is correct. there Bnd India has done nothing to then I would like to know what is stabilise peace in that area, whereas the length of the security corridor, the Naga hostiles are taking advautage what will be its depth and what of this peace ushered in by this IIgree- would ·be the modus operandi of the ment. In that context may I know joint operations along this corridor. whether, as reported in the papers, our Prime Minister had a discussion with Gen. Ne Win specifically on this ques- SHRI B. R. BHAGAT: There it no tion of sealing the Indo-Burma border truth in that report. so that our Naga hostiles and Mizo hostiles might not take advantage of the Kachin area in Burma to establish contacts with China and, if 80, what .n ~ '" : it lj;f1 ~ Ii was the result? ;;rr;m ~R! ~ f 8HRI BEDABRATA BARUA: It hal been reported in the newspapers that MR. SPEAKER: They cannot reveal the question of joint patrolling has the details Of the talJu. been discussed. I know that It wlll not be divulged in detaU but I would SHRI HEM BARUA: She pid ~t like. to know whether any speclAc de- cn oUr part we have taken the deci- cision has been taken in regard to sion to seal the border; yet, the lOP Joint patroJUnc on the Indo-Burma lenders of the :Na.. UnderlfO\lDd ro bol-der. to ChIDll. Oral Amwer. APRIL 3, 1968 Ora! Amwer, 1830 . t~ ~ ~i l t~ .:ft .0 U 0 'loT« : 'ir ~~ it; ;rl'l1'ftifi" ~ '"" ;fur ~ ~n 'iff," 4f.Air ~ ~ Tof!fir ~ lfT 19i ~m rr ~ it if;f.e ~ 19if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ! I Tof 19ir ~ ~~a i !il ~ ~ « ;rT'If'I'lR'f q-IT ~r '1ft ~ . 1r it orr m it; ~ q-IT ~ l ~r ~ '1fT ~ Qrnr it lmfW€f ~ ~ "qr ~ ~~ I III ~~ i~ ~~~it r- ~ ~ it. Tof ~ ifur ~ lti1: ~~ SHRI PlLOO MODY: Appare.nUy, from the answers that we have beer. 'Ifmf mit if? qR ~ ~r ~ receiving, the Government of India ~it ~~~~l ~ had absolutely no diacUBBion with lIiTf ~ "S:'f ~ it 'R iI' ;m,- ~ these people at all because nothing seems to be revealed. Did they at it; ~ ? cr-;ri least disCUSs the price of cbeese III China? .:ft 1{0 UO lfln'f : Aim '1m iffif MR. SPEAKER: Next question. ~ llfur ~ ~ ~( ~ ~ ~r. it'" iffif ~ ~ I ~~ ~ llir 1 ~ ~ ~ ~ I ~ ~ ~ ~ ur ~ ~ ~~ tt'fT ~ m; ... ~ *1019. IIftlflJf""t: 'f'lfitm'f; ~ I '"" l ~ l ~ ~i l it '1ft J.i'fT ~tit ~ (~) iffrfCrhifi"T q-q(r ';F1f fifi"," ~9 • p ~ -~i1l (i i lI'!!'l t iI' i1' a d 6';;rr it; ~1! ~tll *~ "3m: ~~ ~ fifi" ~ it lI'it it arnnrr it '1ft ~ ~ lt~~ iFf 'f'1T mllfflf qf.t ~1(u iN l ~ Tof iI' ri t it ~~ ~ ~ !t?it 1 ~ .t -~ ('I') "qr l ~ l ~ ~ fifi" lHifi"11: 'fit lIfT flJ!; -~ it it ffT ~ ;rtf \!tift I ron- ~~rm i ~i - ~ "I".tfTWI';fr it; Tof ~ ~ it; 'fR ~ '1ft aM ~ 'fi'l<:1If IJ!;rrnfu;r ~ it ~o liq ~ ~m ~ ~ I t n r rr~~ 1nrT ~) 'lf11:i'f ~ t ~~t 'f>':'f it Ai ~ o it ~ ~~ut~ ~ lti1:Rqr t: ~ ~ I o it m~~~ 1 ~ (;r) ~ im ) ~l! itno 6' THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER mentary, you can s.olve the wbole OF ATOMIC ENERGY. MINISTER OF question about it. PLANNING AND MINISTER OF EX- TERNAL AFFAl!tS (S R ~ l "" 1II'l'I'r ~ 1mIqql: ~~ m INDIRA GANDHI): I do not think it ~ if 1fi'f1:rr ~ I ~~ ~ if; iflG is relevant to this question which is r l ll ~ ~ . ~~m~ ~ limited to the result Of the action taken in regard to the extradition of lfll: ~ f'" ffi ~i ot m t~t Dr. Teja from Costa Rica or any other if, lfiT7VT ifo)l:cr fm m 8hri Madhu Limaye is referring that SHRl SURENDRA PAL SINGH: the Costa Rica Government was not He 1$ not an aosconder in·tbe sense taking proper steps? tnat we know· where he is. We are taking necessary steps to get him SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH: back to India. As regards informing We have approached the .costa Rica other countries about it, we have al- Government in this connection. We ready taken that step. We have in- have been' assured by them that they formed all friendly countries, and the have taken adequate steps to see that neighbouring countries round about Dr. Teja does not escape from Coota Costa Rica that ~ have cancelled Rica. Teja's passport, that their paSllport has been im:pounded, that they have 'lft ~ ¥ ~ ~o fl'I{ no travel documents and that they ~r lq'n: \3''1' 'fIT ~ qRf ~ crr:rn ;;rf.t shOUld not allow entry into those countries, and we have been assW-ed ~ '1') 1! il ~ ~) ~ ~ \3'l'f 'mifr'i it by them that they will see that they ~ ~) l rolI'Tflfifi t I ll'::rT ~~ do not enter the country illegally. ~r ~ ~ ~ it 11 if;'\mf7:.n MR.. SPEAKER: For everythiD&, House several times about ~ie paper, are being read. This is QUes- mlluence of foreign JD9ney 111 the tion Hour. He may.put Jsia question. working of political parties and ,theIr ejection funds, will the GoveI'DI&Cnt SHRI SAMAR GUllA: Although I persuac1e or take legal steps, 1f neces- wiSh the best of relations between sary, to see that nO printing press OWJl- India and Soviet Russia, without any ed by any Indian political party 10- State interfering in t.b.e internal poltics cluding the Communist Party .... of the other, yet, in view of the' histo- rical .background of the international SHRI VASUDEVAN NAIR: I would communist moven»nt' as si~e by like to know whether such a slander the activities of tbe Comintern and can be allowed on the parties of this Cominform in the past and the com- country, on the parties represented In mon ideology, ultimate objective of this House. This is an absolute ,lanrl- the .Communist Revolution in ~ er er. country in the world and close orga- nisational collaborations of the com- MR. SPEAKER: The supplementary munist parties Of the world, will the Question is asked based on the !'cply Government make it a general policy given by the Minister. It is only on by politely informing all foreign that that the supplementary is asked. States that no foreign dignitary, while If prepared notes are brought and visiting this country as the guest of members go on reading them, what its Government, should embarrass the can be done? How can I allow this Government of India by entertainin2 during Question Hour? exclu,ive political meetings with leaders of any political partv of this DR. RANEN SEN: Can he make country havinl( common ideological a slanderous statement against a "arty and organisational relations with thp which is recognised in this House? country of the visiting dignitary? MR. SPEAKER: Apart from ~rtiell and all that, supplementary questions SHRI B. R. BHAGAT: No, Sir; we ate asked based on the reply give.l by do not propose to do anything of that the M;nister. If, in advance, members sort. We leave it to the discretiOn of prepare statements and go on reading the visiting dignitaries, the Heads of them during the Question Hour for the friendly countries who come here, askmg a s~ lementar question. I and it is ex;pected that this will be wunder whether we can proceed in thi8 the least in their mind to emb'!"''':lsS Hous". whether we can do anY work at the government of the country ~o all. It is not at all fair. whiCh they come. SHRI SURENDRANATH DWIVgoY: SHRI SAMAR GUHA: In view of One can read out the supplementary. the facts that New Age, Kalantar and there is nothing wrong. The 'Ion. other printing presses owned by 'he Member putting his second question. Communist Party of India publish is 1,16,000 copies of the fortnightly mag- Whether It is slanderous or whether aine, 'Soviet Land', in 14 Indian langu_ there is any truth or nOt, it is for the Minister to say ... (Interruption). alft and over a mdllion other S.lviet There have been questions pamphlets every month and over like tills.. (Interruptions) . 2lt,oo.eoo poHt1c:a1 books and booklets eYery yean and also other week\Jes and b ~ Of other communIst Jl:m- DR. . RANEN ·SEN: SuppoH·1 eay- biIIIu·!n Il\die In lenervolUJnell. ·'U\d that eertain persons beloIlliDc' to ~ In " ... el 'wldupread a rell~ n. PSP'are getting MOIle7·bom-tlae"USA. 8Ibdat1 tend· d1qaBt ~ n >thJa wauld he allow that? Oral AnsweTs CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) 0Tc! AmUlers SHRl .SURENDRANATH: DWl- Mr. Mukerjee, VEDY: Let them put that question and jt is for you to admit it. SHRI H. N. MUKERJElI: We ,haV!" had enough of this kind ot thing ...• I want to paint out that it is not a ([nterruptions) . statement .that has been prepared by SHRI SAMAR GUHA: On a point .ameobody. Sl!'Ice he has given notice of order. of that questIon, naturally he comes prepared. t() ask the supplementarles. MR. SPEAKER: No point of order and he is seekin.r further information. during Question Hour. If it. is not relevant to the question, SHRI SAMAR GuHA: On' a point you can tab! him to ta.~ . of clarification. (Interruptions). MR, SPEAKER: The question i~ SHRI SURENDRANATH DWIVE- about foreign dignitaries cominlt and DY: You have disallowed his 'Iues- alI that. Naturally here the question tion. about many printing presses and all that does not arise. Therefore. I dis- SHRI SAMAR GUHA: It I am an :a\low it. (Interru.!)tions). agent Of anybody; if I am· a Servant, :SHRI SAMAR GUHA: On a point I am the servant of my divine mother- Of order. All the statements that I land, 'Janani Janm.a Bhum1'., and not have made are factual All t e~e are of any other country in the world.' printed here. SHRI SURENDRANATH DWlVZ. MR. SPEAKER: I do not deny that. DY: You have disa\1owed his second question. That particular question, SRRI SAMAR GUHA: Why should you have disallowed. Now let him they say this? I am not taking it put his second question. lying down. None of my statements is ·slanderous. All the statements made SHRi SAMAR GUHA: In view of by me were based on facts, datil, sta- the statement that has' appeared in ti~ti s and figures. I can prove this, the Soviet Ret>iew that they had dll. with your perm!SslOn. You cannot cussed matters of mutual intereRt; deny me the right to ask my second may I ask whether, during the dis- qUl>stion. cussion. this was also discussed that all the Soviet leaflets, booklets and MR. SPEAKF'R: ~t rP ""1o n'." literature, which are mi11ions in num- be true or may not be tmp 1+ i' ,,,., ber, are to be printed in the New my job to saY anything ah'l'lt that. Age, Kala"taT and other prl.ntlnC fle may have Iiteratureq to pro'JI! '.hnt. pressei dwned by the Communist But I am not going into the correct- Party in India? ness of that. (lnteTTupticms). Will he please bear with me for a mmute? MR. SPEAKER: Evidently, he iuI8 1 am not going into those things now. no information. 'There is a different forum or perhaps SHRI SURENDRANATH DWIVE- a different occasion when he can talk aboul' these things. Now, here, tb" DY: He must say so. question is about foreign dignitaries SHRI B. R. BHAGAT: I thought <'Omia,/, and all that, but he is asking he was asking a clarification. 1IboUt prlntinr prC!lls and all that. It SHRi SURENDRANATH DWIVE- may .tf@i eOn'e(!t or may not be eot'rect; DY: That was a qUll.tioft. I aln not- going lilto· that. What 1 am saying if; that tHIs is nM the occasion MR. SPEAKER: I will myself get for it. On'a lupPlementary queetton, it clarified. Has the Minister &ny he ce,l}not raise these thin... Then- infGnnation that the Scwtet Prime 'fore. I have disallowed it. Minister discuued with the 1.,.. Oral AMWe7'B APRIL 3, 1968 Oral A7I.BtDe7t Communist Party leader about print- -ft .0 ,"0 -"11": ~ ~ Qf ing and all that in the New Age, KolanC/lt', etc.? Hu he any Informa- ~t it ti (~~~ tion? ~rtl SHRI B. R. BHAGAT: No, Sir. ;;rgt Oil> ~ lfI ~ if>T ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ IItt ~ I'm'! Ile/\, : lII'fiIM ~ i"'I"R qfufWJ «. ;f.r. lti ~m 1R~~~ ~~~ ~ t, ~ i 1r.l it ;;n ~ it SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: ABy How can the Government of India country can decide that they do not allow the Arab League to blacklist want to trade with a particular com- lndian companies from our soil? panies. They are not saying that we should restrict thOSe companies from SHRI;MATI INDIRA GANDHI: trading; they have no right to de> SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH: \\'e hav0 no information. Commonwealth P.M.'s Conference "1022. SHRI SHIVA CHANDRA SHRI C. C. DESAI: If it is proved JHA: Will the Minister of EXTERNAL 1:1at the Arah League has circulated AFFAIRS be pleased to state: to Indian companies a notice that if they trade with Israel they will be (a) whether the Prime Mini.ter hag blacklisted. will Government take been invited to attend the coming NtiOn to expel the League which CommOnwealth Prime Ministers Con- has heen given diplomatic status by ference in London; and Government against aU principles of (b) if so. the specillc issues that intemational practice? Will Govern- ment ask the League to go away from the Prime Minister plans to raio" In that Confrence? here? THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THl!: SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: No. MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFF- Firstly. it is a hypothetical question. AIRS (SHRI SURENDRA PAL Secondly, as I was saying earlier on, SINGH): (a) and (b). Government any country can decide that it does of India are not aware of any propo.11 not want to trade with such and such to hold a Conference of the Common- companies ... wealth Prime Ministers In London Consequently. the question of Prime SHRI C. C. DESAI: Functionlng Minister having been Invited does not 1rom here can the League do It? arise. 130 (Ai) LSD-2. Orat Answers APRIL 3, 1968 Orat Answers 11ft ~ Ifl: lIrSlfef ~ m SHRJ LOBO PRABHU: Why. ~ qr ~ if r rr~ ~ ~ fi!f1 SHRI S. KANDAPPAN: The Gov- ernment have said that we should not ~ 1 ( r~ ~ ~ ~ fit; 'Uti$'I"II<1"11l act on the spur of the moment, it is if; Sl"1iA" lffiflfT i! 1 ~ It\'. ~ Q major issue and there are many $IR ~ fi!f1 ~ ~.m~ ! r 'q'Ii\'1rT 1fT countries involved in the Common- wealth, it is not Britain alone which r~ 'Wilm ~i! 1 ll t~~R '1'<: ~ Of(1r is concerned with it. In view of this. ~ l ~~r~ ~ i! 1 ~ ~~ are Government .prepared to initioate a dialogue with the countries concerned ~~! \lr;:r(\' ~i m "W to make it purposeful? m~~ ~ ~ I ft;;rr;:r;n ~ SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: ~ fi!f1lrl'G lnlTi\' 1{«T ~~ ~ ~ l There is no such proposal at the mo- q! ~ ~ C\' ~m ll l ~ ~ ment. But it can certainly be conSt- ~ i! 1~ fm. ~ rn r ~ ~ if; dered. SHRI D. C. SHARMA: Is it a a~t ~ ~ Cl'i'if '1<: ;ff'f ~i Ii w:r.;T that the Commonwealth Prime Minis- 1fT:rtf ? ters' Conference dOes not have any specific agenda and all the rim~ THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER Ministers meeting have their say with- OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER out arriving at any definite conclu- OF PLANNING AND MlmSTER OF sions or decisions? If so. what is the EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI gOOd of this conference? INDIRA GANDHI): Firstly, we have no indication whether such a con- SHRlMATI INDIRA GANDHI: It ference will be held or not, what the is a getting together and exchange 0 f ag,enda will be, what the discussions views on various problems. will be about. Certainly, if it comes, SHRI S. S. KOTHARI: Is the1'e we will take our stand. any convention that any member )~ -tr Ifl : ~~~ it rr'flfOf the Commonweath can cal1 a meeting m-... of the Prime Ministers? If so, would ll~1 . m ~ ~ ~ ~m i! 1~ ~~ our Prime Minister take the initiative ~m~ i!f1T ~~~ fi!f11f1 "IT ~ ~ I fer calling such a meeting so tha t ~ ~r ~~i ll ~ ~ issues like Hhodesia, Indians in Kenya ... it 1t •. f'fi!f1OfT and others can be discussed? 'fT fi!f1 ~ ~r i!Ti!f1Tlro l1 ~ ~ SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: mf!f)i ~ ~ Iff ~ ~~ think that they can suggest a meeting rr~ ~~)1l ~ '1<: ~ ftm ~ and then everybody's advice is taken. There is no proposal on OUr part o~ flr.r.f i!f1T ~~i ~ GT l~ I ft;;rr;rr calling one. ~ ~ fit; ~ '1<: \lrofflfT if; N<'fl'ifi SHRI H. N. MUKERJEE: In view ~ ~! ~ ~ ~ ~ if; 1!mf<'OfIf1 of the anomaly that some of the C",- ~ '1<: ~ ~ ;rrq ~ r lIT ~ 7 mmonwea1th countries have even very justifiably broken off diplomatic relations with the UK, may I know MR .. SPEAKER: Shri Kandappan. how it is that the Prime Minister still seems to persist in hopes of some SHRI S. KANDAPPAN: Our com- beneficial results ensuing out of discu_ monwealth relations are getting more ssion with the UK, on any presuma- and more strained in view of what Is ble subject which she may have in happening in Rhodesia and other coun- view? tries of Africa and elsewhere, and there is a growini feeling in this coun- SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI: I try that we should snap our ties with jo not think I have presumed any the Commonwealth. beneficial results of such talks. AI! I 1855 Ora! Answers CHAITRA a, 1890 (SAKA) Ora! Answers said was that we have to view this ting censorship laws, machi- matter in the larger perspective and nery and procedures with a see whether anything is to be gained view to:- by leaving the Commonwealth. (a) enabling the Indian films to develop into an effectiVe crea- Film CeasOr'Bhip tive medium keeping in tune with the contemporary tren- °1023. SHRI RABI RAY: Will the ds in social conduct and prac- Minister of INFORMATION AND tices and responsive to the BROADCASTING be pleased to state: emotional and intellectual needs of the people. (a) Whether it is a fact that a high level Committee has been appointed (b) promoting between the films to flO into the question of film censor- industry and the regulatory ship; and organisatiOn close understan- ding, which would be con- (b) if so, the aims and objects of ducive to the production/ the Committee and the names of mem- exhibition of films of artistic bers of this Committee? excellence, high entertain- ment value and accepted THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE moral standard. MINISTRY OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRIMATI (c) preventing the production/ NANDINI SATPATHY): (a) Yes, Sir. exhibition of films which off- end against public taste. (b) Government have set up an Enquiry Committee on a Film Censor- The composition of the Committee ship to review the existing regulatory. is as foIlows:- procedures, laws and machinery for certification of films both Indian and foreign and to reC'Ommend measures Chairman for improvements where necessary. Shri G. D. Khosla, ICS (Re- The terms of reference of the said tired), formerly Chief Justice. Pun- Committee will be: jab. 1. To study the effect of films Members exhibited in public On the people in the context of chan- I. Shri Lok Nath Misra, ging the needs of society. M.P. (Hajya Sabha) 2. Shri M. P. Bharpva, 2. To enquire into the state of films in India in regard to M.P. (Rajya Sabha) their artistic content and 3. Shri S. K. Vaishampayan, healthy mass appeal in rela- M.P. (Rajya Sabha) tion to the existing regula- 4. Shri P. Venkalasubbaiah, tory ro~e ures. M.P. (Lol< Sabha; 3. To study the working of exis- S. Shri Nath Pai, ting laws, machinery and pro- M.P. (Lol< Sabha) cedures for the certification of IndiBn and foreign cinemato- 6. Shri R. D. Bhandare, graph films for public exhibi- M.P. (1.01< Sabha) tion in the country. 7. Smt. Sha,d. Mukherji, M.P. (Lok S.l1ho' •. To recommend, on the basis Of the above studie&, measurea 8. ~ ri Kami Singh, fOr improvement in the exis- M.P. (Lok Sabho) Oral Answers APRIL 3, 1968 Oral Answers 9. Shri A. K. Abbas. which Government propose to take in 10. Shri R. K. Narayan. the matter? I I. Padmashri Smt. Nargis. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 12. Shr. Tapan Sinha. MINISTRY OF FOOD, AGRICUL- 13. Shri A. V. Meiyappan. TURE, COMMUNITY DEVELOP- 14. Shri Ramesh Thapar. MENT AND COOPERATION (SHRI ANNASA'IIB SIDNDE): (a) The IS. Shri UmasPankar Jethalal Joshi. floods in September, 1967, affected 16. Chairman, Central Board of Film CensoIs. crops in 2,18,430 'acres In ont~i Sl.lb- division. The populati'on affected was 17. Deputy Secretary (Films)--Member Secretary. 5,42,000. The Committee will start function- (b) The number of houses dam'lged ing forthwith. due to fioods in Contai Sub-division MR. SPEAKER: The question Hour is reported to be 32,040. is over. When the answers are very (c) Though as a result of tne floods long. it will be good sometimes to acute distress developed in the affec- place them on the Table. ted areas, the prompt and effective measures taken for rendering relief SHORT NOTICE QUESTION through official and non-Official agen- cies checked the situation. No aetue Damage to croPS etc. in Contai Sub- food crisis Or starvation situation pre- Division of West Bengal vails nor has any death due to starva- + tion taken place in the affected areas. SNQI6. SHRI SAMAR GUTA: (d) No, Sir. Relief measures are SHRI S. N. MAlT!: being continued wherever considered necessary. Will the Minister of FOOD AND AGRICULTURE be pleased to state: (e) and (f). No, Sir. Adpquate steps have been taken by the State (a) whether nearly two-third of the Government to help the agriculturists harvest of one crop in Contai Sub- to resume operations by supply of Division in West Bengal was tota1ly seeds. pumping sets and fertilisers devastated during the last Octobar and grant of cattle purchase loans, flood affecting nearly a million of the etc. people there; SHRI SAMAR GUHA: It is only (b) whether nearly 65,000 houses usual that the Government does not and 500 school buildings either admit any death as due to starvation. I collapsed or were irreparably dama- have a verified list of 24 persons who ged by the flood; died of starvation and I sl.alI l~ee (c) whether acute food crisis and it on the Table of the House. stavation situation has developed in MR. SPEAKER: You can give it to ihe Contai area as an aftermath of the Minister later on; now you must \he last unprecedented tlood, resul- put the question . •ing in deaths Of several people there; SHRI SAMAR GUHA: I request (d) whether aU official and non- the Minister to verify this jist. Is it official relief measures have been sto_ possible fOr the Government to re- pped there after December last; move all restrictions against food (e) whether due to heavy loss of movement to the flood alfected areas cattle, lack Of fodder and collapse of of Contai from other parts of Midna- the agricultural economy, next culti- pur district and allot a special quota vation in this otherwise surplus area of food from the Centre for opening is threatened; and cheap canteens and gruel kitches and also provide test relief works to every (f) if so, the remedial measures willing person giving him a rupee In Oral Answers CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Oral Answers 1860 cash and two kilos of food in kind area has indicated Rs. 25 lakhs should fOr one day's work? be provided for gratuitous relief, Rs. 25 lakhs for cheap canteens, and relief SHRI ANNASAHIB SHINDE: We works, Rs. 2 lakhs for concessional share the concern of the hon. Mem- supply of fodder, Rs. 30 1'".Ikhs for ber in regard to the suffering of the grants to repair houses, Rs. 1 lakh for people of the Contai division of Midna- the supply of medicines, Rs. 3 lakhs pur district. We have referred the for contingent expenditure, Rs. 10 list produced by the hon. Member to lakhs for house building loans, Rs. 11 the State Government and so far the lakhs for cattle purchase loans, and State Government had not indicated Rs. 55 lakhs for agricultural 10000ns. If to us that there had been any death there is any specific difficulty, we are due to starvation. We are awaiting prepared to examine it. further enquiries by the State Govern_ ment. In regard to the relief measu- SHRI S. N. MAlT!: Are the Govern- res, a number of steps have been taken ment aware that the Sabong and Pin- by the State Government to provide gla areas adjacent to Contai sub- relief. A Central team was sent by division are also equally aftected J)y the Central Government and they had the last flood and if so will the Govern- recommended an assistance of Rs. ment take all steps for proper relief 1.65 crores to be provided to the State and rehabilitation measures to enable Government and actually One crore CUltivation this year in the flood had already been advanced to meet the ai'l'ected areas? expenditure for variou5 relief me3- ~ures. In regard to the restrictions SHRI ANNASAHIB SHINDE: Let on intra district movement, it is v:ith- me make it elear that it is entirely in the jurisdiction of the State Gov- within the competence of the 3tate ernment and the State Government is Government to take necessary .nell- competent to take necessary steps. If sures by way of relief etc. The Fin- the State Government's assessrnt'nt is ance Commission has prescribed a that these restrictions should be re- set pattern of assistance. Normally moved, we shall not come in their 50 per cent is given by the Cent.re by way. way of grant and 25 per cent by way SHRI SAMAR GUHA: Is It a fact of loan and only 25 per cent hIlS to that certain restrictions on expendi- be provided by the state. 1 think ture from Centr'lll subsidy for the State Government is taking all the flood affected areas by the the necessary steps in order to pro- Planning Commission study team vide relief. which visited that area debar the West Bengal Government from spen- DR. MAITREYEE BASU: What is ding the money on cheap canteens, the Government's definition Qf star- gruel kitchen. giving aid to stllder.ts vation death and what were the for reconstruction of flood damaled signs and symptoms of star ation~ schools, etc. and if so will the Government remove all such restric- SHRI ANNASAHIB SHINDE: tions and permit the Government of Judement may difter from person to Weal: Bengal to spend the central person. We have to rely on the as- subsidy in the manner they consider sessment of the State Government best to give all round relief and re- whether or not the deaths are liS R habilitation work in these areas? result Of starvation. SHRI ANNASAHIB SHINDE: The Government of West Benpl had not SHRI S. C. SAMANTA: May 1 iDdic.ted to us that there ...... as any cUftI- know whether test relief worlu are culty in their way in spend.\nc heln. carried out In theee fteod affect- 8IDOW1t. for varioll8 re.tlef -b. etc. ed areas, luch as the CODJtruction of fte Central team which villlted that embankments, etc? 1861 Oral Answers APRIL 3, 1968 W"itten Answers ~ SHRI ANNASAlllB SHINDE: draw the statutory rationing from Test relief works are being carried Calcutt-a and modified rationing from out. those areas although the situation has not improved. I would like to '1'1 ~. mf: 1! r~ tlJT Kingdom to com-bat, racial discrimi- KlclDappm, of CltiHDI b)' N.,. nation in one tonn or another through BOIIWes official as well as non-official agen- -1026. SHRI RANJIT SINGH: Will cies. Important men in public life the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS and leading newspapers in that coun- be pleased to state: try are themselves exercised about this question. Government of India (a) whether kidnapping of peaceful do not think that it is necessary to citizens by Naga Hostiles has shown agitate this matter at a meeting of marked, increase in the past few the Afro-Asian countries. months; and (b) if so, the number of cases of kidnapping in Nagaland from 0cto- Soviet Delegate's speech In Islamic ber last? International Gtlnterence THE DEPUTY-MINISTER IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS -1025. SHRI KAMESHWAR SINGH: (SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH): SHRI A. SREEDHARAN: (a) and (b). A statement showing the number of persons reported to have been kidnapped by Naga Hos- Will the Minister of EXTERN AL tiles in Nagaland from 1st October, AFFAIRS be pleased to state: 1967 to 31st January, 1968 and lrom June, 1967 to September, 1967 L! (a) whether Government's atten- plaCed on the Table of the House. tion has been drawn towards the [Placed in Library. See No. LT- broadcast from Radio Pakistan on the 7Z8/681. 18th February, 1968 to the effect that 1 he Soviet delegate participating in Freedom Fighters executed by Rhode- the Second Session of the Islamic In- sian Government ternational Conference made a strong plea for the "Liberation of Kashmir"; °1027. SHRI KANWAR LAL GUPTA: SHRI SHRI GOPAL SABOO: (b) if so, whether Government SHRI R. S. VIDYARTHI: nave- taken up the matter with tile Government of U.S.S.R.; and Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased to state: (c) if so, their reaction in tilis (a) whether it is a fact that there regard? freedom fighters were executed by the Rhodesian Government recently; and THE DEPUTY-MINISTER IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (b) if so, whether Government pro- (SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH): pose to take up this issue before the (a) t1> (c). There was no such broad- U.N.O.? cast by Radio Pakistan. Hon. Mem- bers have probably in mind the Pak- THE DEPUTY-MINISTER IN THE istani press reports attributing to the MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS Soviet el~ate certain statements al- (SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH): legedly made by him at a press con- (a) Yes, Sir. The Prime Minister ference in Dacca on February 20. The gave this information in a Itatement Soviet Embassy from whom clarifica- made in the House on the 6th March, tions were sought, have stated that lU68. t ~ report published in the Pakistani (b) The Security Council is at pre- press was incorrect and that the sent considering the situation arising Soviet delegate did not make an), out ot the ezecutiou 01 the three tree- plea for the liberation ot Kashmir. dom fighters in Rhodesia. S e~ Written AnsweTs APRIL 3, 1968 WTitten AnsweTs 1866- on March 19th, 1968, the Indian Per- (b) if not, how many years n~ore manent Representative demanded will be required to file a crimmal stern action against the illegal racist suit; and regime in Rhodesia. (c) the reasons for delaying the- criminal prosecution? Feats of Indian Navy THE MINISTER OF INFORMA. TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI ·1028. SHRI S. C. SAMANTA: Will K. K. SHAH): (a) Yes, Sir. The the Minister of DEFENCE be pleasl'!d Secretary of the Saciety has already to state: filed a complaint with the Commis- (a) the impression P.M. has formed sioner of Police, Bombay as auvl,ed about the feats of Indian Navy as a by the Legal Adviser to the Sudety result of their performance dUring and the Central Ministry of Law. naval exercises which she witnessl.'d (b) and (cl. Do not arise. during her recent journey to Anda- mans; It'T\OrT ;rill ~ q'lfirnn;r I'm ~ (b) the number of naval ships, destroyers and submarines that took ~ .~ part in the exercises; "'1030. ~ ~.. . ro (C) whether the naval ~ u rons of any other friendly countries also took ~ JfilfT l:l1i il ~ 'f."T 'fo''1T ro~ f;ro : part in the exercises; and (111) ~1 l ~ ~i ~ f:r. mlP''IT'f (d) if so, the names of countries ;mi'r;rlflf ~r 'l'7: if;r>:" which participated and object of their it Jflf<'/T amr participation? ~ . m~ THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (.-) ~~ orr ~1 l . o/.lf.,.. ~ ~ (SHRI SWARAN SINGH): (a) The ~~ l1HAT II m;ro"'ilTi'f' ;f.T .r~ fmo:l Prime Minister was impressed by thl) '1ef ~ mlP''IT'f ;l 3f\\; exercises and she found Ihe officers ':hrr 'R"h: and sailors and the Fleet as a whole ~ ~ in fine form. 'Sfftmn ~ ('1') m~) : (b) Five ships of the Indian Navy (;ro) m;tn'. ;roT ~~ ~ if lil~ ~ r (1 cruiser, 2 destroyers and 2 friga tes) took part in the exer.cises. i'f'i{T ~ I (e) No, Sir. ( .-) 'Sf'9i'f' i'f'ifT "3'¥" (d) Does not arise. Demar.eatlon of Inth-east Pak Bonbr b ~ s FUm SOCiety ·1031. SHRI SRINIBAS MISRA: ·1029, SHRI BABURAO PATEL: Will the Minister of EXrERNA'L Will the Minlster of INFORMATION AFFAIRS be pleased to sta~e AND BRoADCASrING be plUs4!d to refer to the reply given to Unitarred (a) whether it is a fact that thlt QllMtion No, 44 on the 22nd May, Pakistani Survey OftlcialS have uni- 198'7 and state: laterally stopped demarcation ""Grit of the Indo-East Pakistan Borcier: (a) whether the Legal Advisers of (b) whether it Is a fact that the the Children'. FI.lm Society ha.. DOW Eallt Pakiitiln authorities have up- takeD a decUkm to fUe a criminal rooted the plll.r. demarcatinl Nadia suit ...... ita a-s.er.e.,.; border; and 1867 Written Answers CHAlTRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written Answers 1868 (c) whether Government propose a substantial increase over the pre- to go on with the demarcation worK vious year's outlay of 9.0 crOl'es. This on their own? was intended mainly to prov,de tor the development of the Hill Areas THE MINISTER OF STATE IN transferred to Himachal from old. THE MINISTRY OF EXTll.""RNAL Punjab. AFFAIRS (SHRI B. R. BHAGAT): (c) Does not arise. (a) The East Pakistan Survey offi- .cials unilaterally stopped demarca- tion work on the West Bengal-East Pakistan border. (b) According to our information, ~ l0 ~~~ ~ the pillars were removeJ lJy Pakis- tani nationals. "flIT ~ m -m iftfT ~ ~it 11ft !"QT ~ ti ~ : (c) Since demarcation of the in- ternational boundary with Pakistan ( IF ) 'fl1T 17~r~ '!if vrr ·1032. SHRI PREM CHAND (~) ;l!,r ~ ~~ if ~~ VERMA: Will the PRIME MINIS'tEn be pleased to state: Press CouncU Activities of Rebel Naras .1034. SHRl D. C. SHARMA: Will 01036. SHRI RAMACHANDRA the Minister of INFORMATION AND ULAKA) : Will the Minister of EX- BROADCASTING be pleased to state: TERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased to (a) whether the Standing Commit- state; tee of the All-India News Editore -Conference which held its session at (a) whether the activities of the 'Chandigarh on the 9th and 10th rebel Nagas have increased recently; March, 1968 has expressed concern at the controversy over the working of (b) if so, the details there:>f; and the Press oun~il and (b) if so, the reaction of Govern- (C) the steps taken to cheCk their "ment thereto and the action proposed activities? to be taken in the matter? THE MINISTER OF N~- R- THE DEPUTY -MINISTER IN THE MATION AND BROADCASTING MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAlliS (SHRI K. K. SHAH): (a) Yes, Sir. (SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH): (b) The Advisory Committee b.,t (a) and (b). The increasing contact up to consider and suggest necessary of the Underground Nagas with China amendments to the Press Council Act has added a new dimension to the will no doubt take due cognisance of problem. A statement showing vio- the views expressed by the All-Indi:! lent incidents committed by Under- Newspaper Editors Conference al'lng ground Nagas from 1st August, 1967 with such other views as may b THE MINISTER OF STATE IN 01037. SHRI VASUDEVAN NAIR: THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL Will the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI B. R. BHlI.GAT); AFFAIRS be pleased to statr·; (a) and (b). A Joint Boundary Com- 'mission has been set up. The Com- (a) whether Government have re- mission is charged with tne respon- ceived any representation from the sibility for planning and carrying out Indian employees of the Petroleum the demarcation of the boundary bet- Development (Oman) Ltd. reglll'dini . ween the two countries, with the their grievances; and . preparailon of . boundary mapa and with the r~ of the bowldary (b) if so, the main issues railed in .treaty. the r~entation 1871 Written Answers CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written Answers 1872 THE DEPUTY-MINISTER IN A.I.R. Propammes "SpoWcht" aDd. THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL ''Today In Parliament" AFFAIRS (SHRI SURENDRA PAL SINGH) : (a) A representation from ·1039. SHRI D. N. PA':'ODIA: Will the Intermediate Staff of Seismogra- the Minister of INFORMATION AND Jilic Servi.ce Limited working with BROADCASTING be pleased to state: one of the contractors of the Petro- leum Development (Oman) Ltd. was (a) whether it is a fat that the Jecently received by our Consul Gene- Journalists who prepare the script for ral in Muscat. All India Radio i.e. "Spotlight·, and (b) Improvement of service condi- "Today in Parliament" are given full tions--overtime allowance, leave liberty to be objective; ~alar public holidays. accommoda- ~ion and social amenities. (b) whether in the guidelines given by the A.I.R in writing these scripts in fact create some hinderance in their writing; (c) whether any complaint has been received from any journalist In * 1 033. 11ft UIf ~ : 'f!fT ~i m this connection; anli ~ ;fi;fT ~~ t 'fiT!''1T i .~ fiji' : (d) if so, Government's reaction (IF) ;fR ~ ;t r~ ~rr thereto? ~n l r ~ ~ '1{ fiji' '1' S/"'Ii'l"\: 'Ii'l" rl' rhyth of the language spoken. There MirratM of Hindus from E. PaldstaD is thus a tendency, difficult to sur- °1044. SHRI BEDABRATA BARUA: mount, in all cultures to pronounce a name or word of another culture by SHRI D. N. DEB: SHRI R. R. SINGH DEO: mispronouncing or adopting it to the phonestic genius of the speech used. Will the Minister of EXTERNAL Not only do Indian names present AFFAIRS be pleased to state: pnlblem in English announcements (a) whether it is a fact that migra- but Indian names of one region and tion of Hindus from East Pakistan language group present problems of still continues; pronunciation in announcements in another Indian language. For obvi- (b) if so, the number of persons ating these difficulties, A.I.R. has who crossed over to India during compiled an elaborate pronouncing January-February, 1968; eli,tionary, but the phonetic problems (c) whether Government have taken eire nevertheless considerable. up the matter with the Government of Pakistan; and (d) if so, the result thereof? Smuggling of Indian Films THE MINISTER OF STATE IN TUE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL ·1043. SHRI JUGAL MONDAL: AFFAIRS (SURI B. R. BHAGAT): Will the Minister of INFORMATION (a) Yes, Sir . .-\ND BROADCASTING be pleased to state: (.b) According to information avall- able with the Government of India, (a) whether Government are aware 1580 persons migrated to India from that many Indian films are being East Pakistan during the months of ,muggleel from Inelia to foreign COUll- January and February, 1968. tdes; (c) and (d). The Government of India have repeatedly represented 'b) whethE'r it is a fact that a film to the 'Government of Pakistan re- named "Dil Diya Dard Liya" has been garding the plight of the minorities rmuggled to South Africa; and there, and have reminded them' of {c) if so. the action taken against their obligations, under the Nehru- the distributors of such. films? Liaquat Pact of 1950, which requires them to guarantee to their minorities, security, full freedom and equality of THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- rights. Unfortunately, the condition TION AND BROADCASTING (SURI of the minorities there, continues to K. K. SHAH): (a) Instances of clan- be bad. Assuring protection and de,tinc exhibition of film. with the equality of opportunity to minorities ~ossible cunnivance of the overseaS is a solemn duty which the Govern- buyers in countries other than those ment of Pakistan owes to its own contracted for have come to the nationals. notice of the Government; AnU-lndJan Propscanda by RadIo Ib) Government has seen a press Pakistan report to this eftect; and °1045. SHRI RAMACHANDRA VEERAPPA: Will the Minister of (c) Notwithstanding the limitations, EXTERNAL AFFAIRS be pleased tQ Government are examining the posai- state: bility of tightening up the existing procedures so as to eliminate chances (a) whether It Is a fact that there of illegal exploitatiOn of films abroad. has been a notable stepping up of the Written Annvers APRIL g, 1968 Written Answers anti-Indian propaganda by Radio pay and grade structure of the Cen- Pakistan since Sheikh Abdullah reach.- tral Information Service, ed Srinagsr on the 4th March, 1988; and (b) A statement is laid on the Table of House. [Placed in Librarl/, See No. (Ib) if so, the reaction of Govern- LT-7301681. ment in the matter? (C) No Sir. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF EXTERNAL (d) The Committee is likely t;> take AFFAIRS (SHRI B. R. BHAGAT): some more time. One of the reasons (a) Yes, Sir. for delay is that the report of the Administrative Reforms Commission (b) This is in line with Pakistan's on Relations between the Press and known policy of seizing every oppor- the Administration which will also tunity to malign India. Govern- cover the organisational structure of ment's stand on Kashmir and other some of the media or anisation~ of Indo-Pakistan differences is well the Ministry, is awaited. known. Pakistan's crude propaganda has not had any notable impact on "Songs Of Bravery" programme 011 world opinion which, by and large, AJ.R. favours bilateral settlement of Indo- Pakistan differences. *1047. SHRI MAHANT DIGVIJAI NATH: Will the Minister of INFOR- Grade structure ODmmittee Central MATION AND BROADCASTING In Information Service pleased to state: (a) whether Government have dl.s- *1046. SHRI M. AMERSEY: continued the 'Songs of Bravery' pro- SHRI V. NARASIMHA RAO: gramme from the All India Radi!), SHRI N. SmVAPPA: after the cease-fire of 1965; SHRI C. C. DESA: (b) if so, the reasons therefor; 8!::l SHRI J. MOHAMMED (c) the steps Government ro o~~ IMAM: to take to keep the morale and ,pirit Of the Jawans high in the forward Will the Minister of INFORMATION areas? AND BROADCASTING be pleased to state: THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI (a) whether Grade Structurp. Com- K. K. SHAH): (a) No, Sir. But the mittee of the Central Information Ser- scale may not be the same. vice was constitued about two years 810; (b) Does not ar:'Se. (c) Special programmes for the (b) if so, the scope and funct·ions 01 t.roops are already being broadca·,t the Committee; from A.I.R. (c) whett.er the Committee has sub- mitted its report; and . Booklet entitled 'India' published by (d) if not, when :t is likely to be Indian Bleh ConunJasbn, U.K. submitted and the reasons for the delay? 6205. SHRI DElVEEKAN: SHRI DHANDAPANI: THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION SHRI MAYAVAN: AND BROADCASTING (SHRI K. K. SHAH): '(a) A Committee of officials Will the Minister of EXTERNAL was set up in December, 1968 to go AFFAIRS be pleAsed to refer to the nto the question of rationalisation of reply given to Unstarred Question 1879 Written Answers CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written Answers 1880' No. 3940 on the 13th March, 1968 and be in public interest to give these .tate the full particulars of the photOi figures. published in the Booklet? THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER Al,R. Pro,ramme tor Rural Areas· OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER OF PLANNING AND MINISTER OF 6209. SHRI G. S. MISHRA: Will the- EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI Minister of INFORMATION ANI> INDIRA GANDHI): A list of photo- BROADCASTING be pleased to state: ~a s appearing in the booklet laid on the Table of the House. [Placed (a) whether Government are aware in Library. See No. LT-731 i68]. that the programme broadcast by the All India Radio for listeners in rural Indian DipiomaJts posted in African areas are inadequate and ineffective Countries in the sense that it is repetit:'On of old programmes; 6207. SHRI BABURAO PATEL: Will the Minister of EXTERNAL (b) the basic criteria of choosing AFFAIRS be pleased to state: the programmes fOr rural areas; (a) the names of our d:'Plomats post- (e) the policy of Government to ed in East Africa and other African make the progranunes for listeners countries who know Swahili, Bantu more popular in rural areas; and and other local languages; and (b) the names 'of countries where (d) the time allotted for rural pro- India has diplomats knowing the grammes and thc standard of the pro- language of those countries and the grammes? names of these diplomats with names of the foreign languages they know? THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI K. K. THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER SHAH): (a) The programmes for OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER OF listeners in the rural areas are pre- PLANNING AND MINISTER OF EX- pared and broadcast on the basis of TERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI the calendar of agricultural operations INDIRA GANDHI): (a) and (b). The which are adequate and effective. Tequisite information:'I1 respect of Some repet:tion in such programme!" l.F.S.. Information Service and I.F.S. is inevitable. (B) diplomats is furnished in the statements laid on the Table of the (b) These programmes are planned' House. [Placed in Library. See No. quarterly in consultation with the ex-- LT-732681. perts from the Agricultural Depart ment of the State Governments and' Guns for Civilian Use non-official members of the Rural Pro- gramme Advisory Committees. 6208. SHRI NARASIMHA RAO: Will the MINISTER OF DEFENCE be (e) Government have adopted a' pleased to state: policy of establishing Farm &< HO'1le units at some Stations for broadcalting (a) the number of guns for civilian special informative programmes dally. use pr.oduced in 1967-68; and These have proved very popular among- (b) the number of factories manu· rural listeners. factur:ng 12-Bore cartridges in India? (d) Rural programmes are broad- THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE cast in the evening transmission bet- MI'NISTRY OF DEFENCE '(SHRI L. ween 6.00 to 8.00 p.m. daily. The N. MISHRA): (a) and (b). It will not standaTd is satisfactory. 1881 Written Answers APRIL 3, 1968 Written Answers 1882 . --~- ...... Anocation 01 Advertisements by Reeistrar of Newspapers for IndIa; D.A.V.P. There are three circulat:'OD teams in the Office of Registrar of Newspaper. 6210. SHRI G. S. MISHRA: Will the for India who verify the circulation of Minister of INFORMATION AND newspapers whenever possible. BROADCASTING be pleased to state: (a) the names of the journals and (d) The Directorate of Advertising places of publications to which the and Visual Publicity cal! for audited D.A.V.P. is giVing advertisements; figures from newspapers claimin2' a circulation of 2000 and above. They (b) whether the circulation and the also ver:fy the circulation from the type of paper used are taken into ac- Registrar of Newspapers. count while releasing the advertise- ments: Naval Base in Andamans and Nicobar (c) whether the declarations re: Islands their circulation published by the Registrar of Newspapers are vague and based on unauthenticated informa- 6211. SHRI P. R. THAKUR: Will tion supplied by the publishers; and the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to stat,,: (d) if so, the basic yardstick of the D.A.V.P. to find out the circulatic>n of (a) whether there is any proposal 10 the journal? develop a naval baSe in the Anda- mans and Nicobar Island,; and THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI (b) if so, the latest position thereoU K. K. SHAH): (a) 'The Directorate of ert~sin and Visual Publicity do THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE not maintain any standing list of (SHRI SWARAN SINGH): (a) and newspapcrs to which advcrtisements (bl. Yes, Sir. a naval base is being are released. Media particulars of set up in the Andaman and Nicobar various newspapers . and periodicals Islands and work on this project IS asking for Central Government ad- progressing sat:sfactorily. vertisements are recorded in the Directorate and, within the !undt available. each paper is considered C,ammercial Broadcast individually for release of advertise- ments as and when necessary on the 6212. SHRI S. D. SOMASUN- basis of its effective circulation, DARAM: Will the Minister of IN- readership, language and coverage re- FORMATION AND BROADCASTING quired; etc. be pleased to state when the Com- mercial broadcast are likely to be in- (b) While circulation coverage anc! troducPd at the Madras Station and standard of production are among the the reason for delay in starting it, factors kept in view for release of ad- when it is the third biggest city in vertisements, the type of paper u.ed India? by a particular newspaper is not taken into account for determining its sUita- THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- bility for giving Government's adver- TION & BROADCASTING (SHRI t:'Sements. K. K. SHAH). It is prposed to start (c) Newspapers claiming a circula- commercial broadcasting from Madras tion of over 2000 are required to fur- in the near future. The delay has nlsh a Chartered Accountants's certi- been dUe to our anxiety to gather ficate In support thereof while submit- more experience for 8'Ssessing our ting their annual statements to the req uirements. 1883 Written. AMWer. CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written. Afifwer, I884 IJuIIaa 1Il U.s.A .. U.IL, CuwIa lapID (~) lRT q " t fiI; ~ t ~ ~ 6213. SRKI ARJUN SINGH '"'Il1fl ;it '4fi IIImrt BHADOlUA.: ~ the illlDD!lter 01 ~~~~t.m. lI:X"HRNAL AF'I'AIRS be pleased to ~ :;ft;r;;rR a1fT ~ U lfmf .tate: ~it ~ ~ ~~ .ca) how many Indiana are at pre- sent li i~ in U.S.A. U.K., CIDada aDd Japan; an4 ~ ~ q.ft, '""'" (b) how many 01. them hold British ~ ft1n ~~ q.ft (~ pqsportB and how, many of them ~ 'TfIft): (~) ~ (\1'). fiR' have accepted the nationalities of the 'fT1TTlI'f ~ ~ ! ~ ~ t iI'T't if countries in which they live? ~~~~~~l i i l! t THE PRIME MINISTER, MINIS- ~ l!iT ll'lIiifuo I!iVI'T ~ TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- it ~ ~ trr I TER OF PLANNING AND MINIS- TER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (ll') 'Ifrnf ~ '" ftrt ~ (SHRlMATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) ilir l ~--i i it~ i ~ IIi't .m m- The aproximate number 0 persons of m~ ~ ~~ ~ Indian origin at present livln& in m il; m!{T U.S.A., U.lt:, Canada and Japan are ~ i) ~ ~ fuit ~ ~. 21,900, 200,000, 15,000 and 1057 respec- ~~ I tively. ( ! )~ t~~ (b) 80 persons in Japan are holding ~ British Passports and 15 persona 1II'T'f1' f¥t 'fTllT'if 'Ii1 iI1ri it have a e ~e Japanese nationality. ~ mtml ~ ~ !3 ~ Information in respect of U.S.A., U.K., . ~ 'ti'r If" fqf ~ I and Canada is being collected and will be laid on the Table of the House as soon as possible. 6216. '1ft r" ... ~ lflfT Ii.m.-m l ~ ~ ~ 11ft 6215. 't) 111')0 51' 0 ~rn ) 'tilT !"IT rn fit; : 11' 'nl' THE PRIME MINISTER, MINIS- ~irm1 ~~ TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- TER OF PLANNING AND MINISTER 6221. 11ft ~ '11ri: 1flIT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI- ~-m lj(:fi ~ rn .t ~ ~ MATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) ~R Shortages of qualified technical per- sonnel are being experienced by most (lfi) 1flIT "fTm ~ ll!iT flf;m- developing countries. ~ ~ JfT1f ~ ~a- ~ (b) and (c) Developing countries ~ ll!iT ~ q"r( have been informed that the Gov- ernment of India would be glad to as- (.-) ~ If(f, FIT ~ it; 1flIT sist them in locating and recruitln& '!lTI'IT II ? technical personnel including engine- ers which they may require. Govern- ment haVe .also deputed engineers ! 1 ~ ~ mlftl' ~ ~ and other experts to developing countries under assistance program- """ ~ ~ .w ~ (~ mill. ~ qf1ft) : (lfi) ~ (.-). ;t'ifi 1887 Written AM1Der, CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written AM1Dmt 1888 omr.r 'lfl«r iI; ;fr:;r • ~ expand the Saha IJlIt.Itute of Nuclear m if PhysiCS, Calcutta; li1IT'IR ~ ~~ r~ ~ i iI; iI''Rf (b) . if so, the specUic rellODI ~ ~ ti rofirn rn Ij;f srq;r therefor; and ~ ~ -ao:TT I (c) the specific nuclear researches being done in it at present and the Manufacture of Compaters success if any, achieved so far? 6222. SHRI DIGVIJAI NATH: THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER Will the Minister of DEFENCE be OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER pleaSed to state: OF PLANNING AND MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (a) whether It Is a fact that the (SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) International Bureau of Mines have and (b). As the present premises of manufactureu "1401" computer; tht Saha Institute of Nuclear Physics (b)' If so, whether it can read the are inadequte, it is proposed to put newspapers and can handle the up new building for the Institute on mathematical calculations faster than a site in the Salt Lake area offered by a man: the Government of West Bengal. (c) the estimated cost of the com- (c) The Saha Institute is doing use- puter; ful work in the field of nuclear (d) whether Government propose to physics and the activities of the export such computers; and Institute are covered In the Annual Report of the Department of Atomic (e) if so, the estimated earnings of Energy for 1967-68 which is being foreign exchange? circulated to the Members of Parlia- THE MINISTER 01" STATE IN ment. THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI Recornltlon 01 East GermllD,., L. N. MISHRA): (a) to (e>. A licence Portaral has been issued to Messrs. Inter- 1!224. SHRI SmVA CHANDRA national Business Machines World. JHA: Will the Minister of EXTER- Trade Corporation, New Delhi NAL AFFAIRS be pleased to Itate: (and not to International Bureau of Mines) for 68 Nos. of 1401 series of (a) whether Government have computers. The Indian and foreign made any change in their poIlcy to- contents of tnelle 68 computers are wards the diplomatic recognition of expected to be Rs. 134 lakhs and East Germany, Portugal; and Rs. 122 lakhs respectively. These com- (b) If so, the details thereof? puters will not be exported but the THE PRIME MINISTER. MINIS- required foreign exchange is ex- TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- pected to be earned by export of TER OF PLANNING AND MINIS- other machines manufactured in TER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS India by this firm. (SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDW): (a) Computer systems have built-in No, Sir, stores of momory and ~an perform (b) Does not 8l'18e. many complex functions including Uprising In Tibet mathematical caleulatiollll much faster than man. 6225. SHRI SHIVA CHANDRA JHA: Saba Institute of Nactear Ph,.... SHRI HEM BARUA: Cwatta SHRI RABI RAY: 6223. SHRI SmVA CHANDRA WI11 the Minister of EXTERNAL JHA: Will the PRIME MINISTER be AFFAIRS be pleased to state: pleased to state: (a) whether it Is fact that there hu (a) whether Government plan to been an u,prtsinl In Tibet recemJ7 Written Answers APRIL 3, 1968 18,0 about whieh the Dalai Lama made a ing the JlEccciuntJ and Establishments reference in his speech from his Sections of the Directorate on the Indian abode on the 10th March, night of the 7th February 1968; and 1968; and (b) if so, the details thereOf? (b) if so, the reaction of Govern- THE DEPUTY-MINISTER IN THE ment thereto? MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (BHRl THE PRIME MINISTER MINIS- M. R KRISHNA): (a) and (b). A fire 'l'ER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- broke out in the N.C.C. Directorate, TER (Jl' PLANNING AND MINISTER Indore, on the night of 7thl8th Feb- OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI- ruary 1968. Half of the building MATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) Gov- was gutted and documents relatinlf ernment of India have seen reports of to Accounts, Training, Coord and disturbances in Tibet as also in other Planning burnt. As a result of preli- parts of China: minary investigat ions by the Pollee one Head Clerk, one L.D.C. and one (b) While the disturbances 1U, Laskar belongnig to that Office have Ti.bet arisin, from the Cultural Be- been arrested. Further investigations ,·olution are no concern of the Gov- by the Police are in progress. ernment of India, the continued viola- tion of the human rights of the Tibetan people and repression of ~1 11 """ ~ ~ ~ ~ 'tiT ~ their fundamental freedoms eVOKes 6228. r;fl' ~ t ~ our sympathy. r;fl' r'" 'iR ~~~ Indian Nllval Ships HT ~ 1Iit\ l ~ ~ t 'nl' 6226. SHRI SHIVA CHANDRA o/fR 'liT 'f'1T ~t f.t; : JHA: Will the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to state: ( ~ ) oro THE MINISTER OF STATE IN (.. ) ~ it '11fT'W 'f7T lI'1fTT'!T ~ MINISTRY Q}o' DEFENCE m- f>r.>r '1'l!'lf it ~~ i if (SHRI L. N. MISHRA): (a) Yes. Sir. lI'lflfr;; f""H 'T!TT >1T; ift. (b) The ships were Indian Naval ( Tf ) 'f'TI lW,' -.fr "l"'1' ~ f.t; ""i'f ~ i s Mysore, Rajput, Ranjit Khukrl ltuthar Kirpan and Deepak. They ~ ;nrrfrf- Of; 0l ~ ~rr r i'f qr ifWf, ''Vere on a normal training cruile com- f"fllFT 'r 1;" '9 'f.TJi''lill' lI''''!i'f ~1- if? hlned with a good will visit. ~ l tt~ ~ (0Jft' Ifro Madhya Pradesh N.C.C. Dlreetomte ~o ~) : ( IDduatrial ADd NOD-latltlitdal Em- (b) whether worker. have been ploYeIIB in 0.'- ID8&alIMIe_ paid for the ~-ou.t period? THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE 6229. SHRI S. M. BANERJEE: Will MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI L. the MiQllter ot DEFENCE be pleued N. MISHRA): (a) There was no sd- to state: tlement as such. The Gun Ie Shell Factory Mazdoor Union saw tho DGOF (a) whether It is a fact that there is ilnd suggested re-openlng 01 the fac- still discrimination In th£' matter of tory, withdrawal of suspension orders service conditions between the Indus- which had been passed against 2 wor- trial and Non-industrial employees in kers, protection of pay durl.ng periud Defenc£' installations; of closure and no victimisation. The DGOF agreed to open the factory &. (b). if so, whether the unanimous factory is working normally. After recommenda.tions of the Pay Commis- an enquiry, the case agawt tho 2 wor- sion regarding leave har not yt.t been kers is proceeding. implemented; and (b) The workers have not been paid (c) If so, the reasons the-refor? for thE.' period the factory was closed except in so far as the facrory was closed except in so far as the factory THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE was specially opened on Sunday, tl:e MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI L. lOth March, 1968. N. MISHRA): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) and (c) The recommendations of the Second Pay Commission in re- 6231. SHRI MADHU LIMA YE: Will gard to the grant of extraordinary, the- Minister of EXTERNAL AJI'J'AtRS mat('rnity and study leave have been be pleased to state: implemented, bringing at par indus- trial and non-industrial employees. (a) whether Government have ll!en Their recommendations relating to the reports in the "Indian EXpre8R", rate- of earned leave and limit of accu- Bombay (Oak Edition) of the 9th mulation thereof have not been imple- March, 1968 about the existence ot a mented. Government have decided proclamation by Queen Victoria about that this should be placed before the the Kachchativu Island to the eftect National Council of the Joint Consul- that it be-longs to Rajya of Ramanad tativf.o Machi.nery, as it involves a and not Ceylon; general issue. Accordingly. a deci- sion of the National Council, who is (b) if so, whether the document still considering the matter, is await- will be laid on the Table; and ed. (c) if 110t, the reasons therefor? COIIIipore Gun and Shell Factory THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MJNISTER OF PLANNING AND J41NISTZR OF 6230. SHRr S. M. BANERJEE: Will EXTERNAL AJ'TAlRS (SHRIMATI the Minister of DEFENCE be- pleased INDIRA GANDHI): (a) to (c) Gov- to state: ernm£'nt have seen lhe press report referred to by the honourable Member. (a) the terms of settlement between Efforts have been set afoot to trace thE.' workers and the management of tho proclamation in question. The the Gun and Shell I'ac:tory. Couipore question ot plac1nJ it on the Ta'l:Ile of leading to its reopening on the 9th the House can be considered only after March after its cioJW"e from 4th to 8th a copy of the proclamation becOIllW March, lH8; aDd a.vailable. Written A1llIwer, APRIL 3, 1968 Written A1llIWer, Pak Claim lin AndllJlWl-Nlcobar (c) whether \he Government of Groups 01 Islands Madras have been consulted; and (d) if the ansWt"l' to part (a) above 6232. SHRI MADHU LIMAYE: be in the negative, what machinery SHRI O. P. TYAGI: Government propose to set up to settle SHRI B. K. DASCHOW- this dispute with ~lon DHURY: THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER Will the Minister of EXTERNAL OF ATOMIC ENERGY. MINISTER AFFAIRS be pleased to state: OF PLANNING AND MINIS'l'ER OF (a) whether Government's atten- EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI tion has been-drawn to the articles I INDIRA GANDHI): (a) No, Sir. dl'6patches in Pakistan's newspapers (b) and (c). Yes, Sir. by Pakistani News Agencies laying (d) As already stated by the Prime claims on part of the Andaman-Nico- Minister in her statement made on 4th bar groups of Islands; March, the qUl'6tion will be discussed (b) whether it is also a fact that at a meeting of the senior officials of Pakistan has sought to drag in Burma Governments of India and Ceylon. and Indonesia by offering them a share of these islands; and Effects 01 FIlms (c) whetht"l' Government will assure 6234. SHRI SAMAR GUHA: Will the the House that it will never cO!lcede Minister of INFORMATION AND existence of any dispute over t i~ and BROADCASTING be pleased to statE>: defend these Islands from any aggres- (a) whether it is a fact that some sive attacks? Indian Films particularly produced from Bombay are causing moral prob- THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER lems for growing youths of our coun- OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER try; OF PLANNING AND MINISTFR OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI (b) if so, whether Government pro- INDIRA GANDHI): (a) Yes, Sir. pOSE> to set up a Commission of eminent educationists, literateurs, scientists (b) No official claim has been IId- and artistes to review the princlple vanced by Pakistan to a part of those and policy of film censoring and con- Islands nor lirE> the Government a·.... are trolling display of cinema posters and of any efforts by Pakistan to drag publicities; and Burma and Indonesia into this affair. (c) if not, the reasons therefor? (c) Yes, Sir. THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI K. K. Kacbcbativu Island SHAH): (a) No, Sir. (b) Government have set up an 6233. SHRI MADHU LIMAYE: Enquiry Committee on film Censor- SHRI SHRI CHAND GOEL: ship, which will start functioning very Wll! the Minister of EXTERNAL shortly. AFFAIRS be pleased to state: (c) Does not arise. (a) whether Governml'Ilt have al- ready conceded the ownership of Invitation to Pakistani Ceylon over the Kachchativu Island; TecbnlclaDS 6235. SHRI B. K. DASCHOW- (b) whether Chvt"l'nment have con- DHURY: Will the Minister of EXTER- ta~e the present Ramanad Zamindar NAL AFFAIRS be pleased to state: with a view to getting evidence of the possession of the Island by \he Rama- (a) whether any invitation has been nad e.tate; extended by Government to Paklatani I 895 Written Afl8WerB CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written AflBtDef'B .1896 technicians to visit the site of mto regular Government servants, etc. Farakka Barrage Project; and were examined by a Departmental (b) if so, the date when the vwt Is Committee which has submitted an likely to take place? interim report. The report Is UDder examination of Government. THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER Rocket StaUon at lttar~ OF PLANNING AND MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAms (SHRIMATI 6237. SHRI S. C. SAMANTA: Wlll INDIRA GANDHI): (a) and (b). A the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased request to visit the Farakka Barrage to state: project site was made by the Govern- ment of Pakistan, who were informed (a) whether any information in con- by the Government of India that the neoction with the establishment of a details for such a visit could be dis- rocket and space statiQll at Chitta- cussed at the forthcoming meeting gong by Pakistan has come to the of water resources experts of the two notice 01 Government; and countries at the end of April, 1968. (b) whether the e6tablishment of . Demands of Staff Arttsts 01 A.I.R. such a station has any nulitary sl'ni- flcance? 6236. SHRI S. C. SAMANTA: SHRI S. M. BANERJEE: THE MINISTER OF DEFE.'l'CE SHRI G. S. MISHRA: (SHRI SWARAN SINGH): (a) Ye•• Will the Minister of INFOR:'1A'PON AND BROADCASTING be pleased to (b) There is no particular military state: significance attached to thIs except to the extl'llt that improved communica- (a) the demands of the staff artistes tion facilities contribute to the defence of the All India Radio in respect of effort. which they are still agitating; and (b) the steps being takm to meet the demands? THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI 6 ~ l. o;ft ~ l'l1l'f ~ K. K. SHAH): (a) and (b). The main "lIT t ~-1 i1 i if;f'r ~ ~ lilt demands of Staff Artistes of All India '[.'IT rn~ Radio received through the AIR staff Artistes Association early last yrar re- ( !f;) !flIT m>m: ~ '3'f mit late to the replacement of the eXisting system of contract by an all time run- ~ f.r.rIft i\ln' !f; ~ ~ m1I' ~ ning contract, the payment of gratuity ~ ~ tf'ifR: ~ f.fmr ~ ~ ~ in addition to the Contributory Pr')vi- dent Fund, conversion of Staff Arti- git t ; stes into regular Government servants ~ ~ ~ and making them permanent and pen- (_) 1ft m'lfT t sionable, revision of their fee scales ;;;11 ~ ~ ~ and their eligibility to the Family pen- sion Scheme. So far as the payment (IT) ~ ftt!l it ~ lilt IflfT of gratuity in addition to C.P.F. is COll- ~ l ;'7 cerned, the- matter Is under conside- ration. Staff Artistes hem, not regu- lar Government servants at pre3ent, "" "",", att«fW 1i'Jft, ~1 II1'e not e1iJible for Family Pe-llsion. ~ l n ~ ·.The qJ,ll!stion relatm, tQ .the revisIon of "'" 1i'Jft ("""'" fee lCialee, conversion of Staff ArtiItee dinT 1It1ft): (Ifi') ~ 'f(t I APRIL 3, Ieee Writte1l Amwer& (.) Wtt ('1'). ~ ~m I (1f) ~~ ffi' '" ~ 1f.t "I'roI' fqmfT lTfuflffrn 11ft m- ~ wrf '"'" .1 ~ II ~ it Ml!ft ~ rnr ~ ~ fImIl .~ ~ ~m~mit~l ! r~ ro t i 6239. ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 : II'I1T ~ 1II'ifT ~ ~ '1ft "'" -t'lll', "'1 • ~ .,. '¥IT ~ fiI; : 1t1ft ~ ~im.-m .m- (~ (tti) W ~ ttil ~ '1ft ~~) (tti) ~R (II'), ~ ~ I ~ ~ m it ~ <'fTlIT mr ~ ~ it; ~ 1 ~i t ~ Mwr it; m'f ttiT ~ mr~ nA-t\lft, ~. ~ ~ ( rr ) ~~ ~ rmrl . .rt ~ ~ 1nIIn _ ~ ~~ if m t~ ~ ;tt ~ m~ ~ ~ CIlIT ~ ~ ~~ -a~l n "I"1"U1r1: '3"WIf ~ If ~ n 6242- ~~ ~ 'lm'!ft: ~i i~1 4fIIT ~ JiWt III ~ If,t 11ft ~ f1f;: ~ 154 7 :12 tr ~ 9 5 26 (iii) ~ ~ if lrirr~ ~ l t ---. !~ m it; ~ ~1 i mrrr (.) w m if ~ Voi'ITlf WilT ~ ~ ~~ ~ I!>"tt ~ l 'fTiii ~~ ( (b) if 80, the, problema c"naldered snd the Bureau should be by it and the decisions taken; and given suitable staf! assiItance for this work. (c) whether the reC'Ommendationa of the samiti are binding on Govern- (6) Arrangements should be made ment or not? for appropriate training of the Officers of the Preas Informa- THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- tion Bureau who are nut qua- TIONAND BROADCASTING (SHRI lified in Hindl to the requWte K. K. SHAH): (a) The first meeting stand'3rd. of the Soochana Aur Pnsaran Hindi Samiti was held on'the 23rd January, (7) Production capacity of' the 1968. factory producing I>t!vana,ari teleprinters should be increas- (b) The following are the main . ed so that greater number of conclusions Of the discussions held in such Teleprinters could be that meeting:- available in a shorter period (1) The broadcast of Hindi les- and Ministry of Information sons over those Stations of AI! and Broadcastina should as- India Radio from which such certaln the firm demand of lessons were being broadcast various users of Devana,arl before the proclamation of Teleprinters. emergency should be resumed (8) N'3tional 'talks sh?u1d be in phases subject to dvailabi- broadcast not only in English lity of funds. but also in Hindi and there (2) With a view to improve the should be no difference in the contents and technique of les- rate of payment for talks in sons, the scripts of the pre- Hindi and English over All vious lessons should be sup- India Radio. plied to the Members of the (c) The functions Of the CommIttee Committee knowing the parti- are advisory. Its recommendationa cular hnguage in which the are not binding on the Gavernment lessons had been broadcast. but lIre given due wei,ht by the Gov- (3) On the analogy of Hindi les- ernment. sons being, broadcast from AI! India Radio Stations in non- !~ ~1 ~ r",,'rIr q ~~ Hindi regions, the leas; bility of broadcasting lessor.s in 62-18. )~.m ~ mt'Ift.: other Indilln languages irom ~ l ~ il .rm:r 1IIT ~ 1i '.rtllil' ~ ,lq- ( If, ) 'flIT ~er q';;rif!:fnr l ~ if ~ 11 l ~ 'JTR it. fi;rir llElf m 6249. ~ ~ t ~ 'fN : "I<:'f.17 ~ ~ ~ lI'R!"f if>T ifill ti ~ lIf. ~ l i ;(.r ir 1 1rr. ~ 91! ~ ~ 1ihf;n I{'lft (If) >;fT. (If), lI'l1?[ ~ T-5'r I ~.~-~ ~ (~.~ '1tIf\') : (I;fi) ~r ~~ 1ff'f mr l!iT ttlfi ~ ~ ~ I If ~ 1fil1!;) tT'1 f"l'f;:"I' .m.1tT'f q",1: ~ tM I ~ tt rl ~ 6251 '" 'To "0 ~ 'fl1'T ~~~ ~l r m: m srqfq ;r ~ ~ I ~~ ~ 1frof Rs. 68.3 c:rores, inclUllve of an Invest- ment of RI. ~. 1 Cl"GI'tIII ID tile fertili- it "RAI ~ r 11ft ~ ;r ~~ i!FT zer industry. Future iDvestments In lie l1 ~o ~ ~ Jftftor ~ ~ m Central projects in Keral. can be ~ ~ ~ ~.n estimated only 'lifter the Founh Plan r. =r f. (b) if so, Government'! reaction (b) whether there is any Division thereto? or Department attached to our foreicn embaSSies, who are well-versed in THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Indian religion and culture who could MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI L. meet such demand; and N. MISHRA): (a) Proposals for the location of the Factory proposed to be (c) if not, whether the necessity of set up by Bharat Electronics Ltd., for sending and attaching one or two luch the manufacture Of Microwave and persons to every Embaasy 'lIImIad for Radar Equipments have been received the purpose will be considered? from KerJla as well as from certain other State Governments. THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER (b) The matter is under considera- OF PLANNING AND MINISTER OF tion. EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI !NDmA GANDHI): (a) Government have received no specl.ftc requests In Allocation fOr Kerala for Indutrlv this regard from foreign countrlea. Development during Fourth Plan (b) There are Cultural Attaches in 6253. SHRI E. K. NAYANAR: Will some Mission. and Press or Informa- the PRIME MINISTER be l a~e to tion Attaches in others whOSe role It state the amount for Kerala State is to project n ia ~ cultural heritage allotted by the Planning Commission in the Breas in which they servlce. in the public sector for Industrial Literature and documentary and other Development :9nd Fertllizer Indu!try? films are available with all our Mi.- sions to assist them in this task, THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER (c) Does not arise. OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER OF PLANNING AND MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAmS (SHRIMATI Sonp and Drama DlvlslOll of AJ.R. INDIRA GANDID): The n e~tment in Central Industrial Projects in 6255. SHRI BENI SHANKER Kerala during the various Plan SHARMA: Will the Minister of IN- periods end'ing 1967 -6a is estimated at FORMATION AND BROADCASTING AftNf1" 1909 Written APRIL 3, 1968 Written AftltDet', 1910 be pleased. to state the number of "i',iHiqiuft it; ~r ~ shows given by.the Songs and Drama (.r itr.J Division of A.I.R. in DeIhl and other i .1i ~ 'fi) ~~ tll1 'l'Tf1flj1 ",1'1; places in 1967-68 and the expenscs in- II' 'lfcr GWfol ~ 1I1:q.jfi'ff iii ~ curred thereon? ml\fll\' it; ~ ~ ~ lfT'JI''fnif It\'l' ~ THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- '''-IT ~ 7 TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI K. K. SHAH): .~ ~ If!l'mr ~ (III{r ~o in Delhi At other ~o~) : (111) ",1'1; (11). ~1 placel mr.!~ m 6. '!'fflf ~ W. ~.r ~ ) r~ ~ ~ 1 ~ ~i!!t 'fr.:r ~ rr ~ it '3'* f;:rit 'lfi'II'1!T: 1 0 ~ r )~ r !l li ~ r t flf\'¢ tTit fnrfcr&e ~~r.i :!IIfm :2 0 ~ ll i i'flfo If\'T ~ I lIT'": 'Q{if ~ I iftI'<:'IT ~ :- (If\') fqr 11 ~. . It\'T 1 l r~ IffmlGf ( .. ) 'If'l;f fif'-ITl1 :':'.fTif ~ ~ ~. 7· 'I1"h7lftTlf1 ~ r~1 Q'!'1'r;j'f it flf.," 1;IfTif on: ~ 1 n ~ ~l l ~ mur f;;rlJ4; ~ir ~ ~ "1I1'T It\',":;f it i i1 ~ lIfTfo ml:o?:11r it ~~ "ir-; 5 l ~ if f_1Pf lIlT ~ 3698 it '3'ffi it ~ 'fe.I' 'n:;;rr ~ ~ f""qT t'f'lIT 'Iff ~~.r ~ 6 • 6262. ~ ~ ~ !flIT ~ f;;ron it m: .q m'li ~~ ~ "'" QT ~ ~! i !i'tT ",,(if f.- : ~! i ~ i rr~tl (.-) ~ ~ ~ -R ;f m (If) ~ ili ~l!lrn IIf\'I" ~ ~ iF R~ 11 ~ artr (f'fT m !IT'f m'li 'liT crrflfll: l r~~ .q mflr 1. ~ ~ ~ ~ q;;rR ~ 2. ~ ~ ~ ~m~ ~ 3. l1m<'f ~ ~ ~ ~ 4. l1m<'f ~~ ~~ ~ ~. ~mm ~ RRt fwft ~ ,6. ~ . ~ ~ ~ ~ .m-t m ~ ~ '7. ~ ~ iI"HTf ~ tm; 8. ~ ~ ;;rnr ~! tt~ ~~ '9. ~ wet R~~ ~m ~ (~) m~ ..~. ifTlI' .-r lfI'tf tRf i~ ~ it fttm if ;r(Y t I 130 (ai) LSD-l. Written Answers APRIL 3, 1988 Written Answer. Pak Efforts to Sec1ll'e 100 Pattoa (b) if so, what are the purposea Tanks for which such higher iaotopes of hy- drogen are separated or prepared. 6264. SHRI MADHU LIMAYE: THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER SHRI M. L. SONDHI: OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER OF SHRI LOBO PRABHU: PLANNING AND MlNlSTER OF EX- SHRI A. SREEDHARAN: TERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI SHRI R. BARUA: INDIRA GANDHI): (a). Yes, Sir. SHRI HEM BARUA: SHRI S. R. DAMANI: (.b) Heavy water is mainly used as moderator of neutrons in thermal re- SHRI S. KUNDU: actors. Tritium is used as a tracer in SHRI RAMCHARAN: hydrological studies and for labelled DR. MAITREYEE BASU: SHRI SRINIBAS MISHRA: compounds required for bio-chemical SHRI SWELL: research. SHRI BHOGENDRA JHA: ~ ~ nt~ ~ if JmroIr Will the Minister of EJXTERN AL m AFFAIRS ,be pleased to state: m-~ (a) whether Government's attention 62GG . .n (l1 ~ W ~ has been drawn to the press reports m ~ ;j-ifr ~ Newl Bu ... about tile MarrIaIe 01 V7Juau-Ja 6269. SHRI:e. K. DASCHOW- 6267. SHRI JUGAL MONDAL: Will DRURY: Will the Minilter 01 IN- the :Minister of INFOR.MATION ~ 'ND FORMATION AND BROADCAST- BROADCASTING 'be pleased to state: ING be pleased to state: (a) whether the All India Radio made any mention of the marriage of (a) the number and names of Hindi film actress Vyjantimala in ita brQad- films in which the censoring autho- casts; and rity refused permission for s ~reenini in India during the last three yaers; (b) if 80, on how many llccasions SUch broadacst was made and the rea- (b) the number and names of films Bons therefor? where the Film Censor Board recen- sored the film during the above pe- rtod; THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI (c) whether any complaints have K. K. SHAH): (a) Yes, Sir. been received against some films; and (b) In the news bulletin of the (d) if so, the number of complaints morning of March 11. The item was and the action taken thereon? of general interest to the listener. THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRl Research Work Entitled 'Asian K. K. SHAH): (a) Only one film Drama' "Aayega Aanewala" (Hindi) was re- fused certificate in the year 1967. No 6268. SHRI DURAIRASU: other Hindi picture was refused cer- SHRI MAYAVAN: tificate during 1965-66. SHRI K. SUBRAVALU: SHRI KAMALANATHAN: (b) No Hindi films were re-censor- SHRI DEIVEEKAN: ed during the last three years. Will the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: (c) Yes Sir, there had been some complaints in respect of certain cer- (a) whether Government have seen tified Hindi films but they were the research work entitled 'Asian mostly of a general nature. Drama: An inquiry into Poverty of Nations' by the Swedish economist, (d) The procedure is that whenever Mr. Myrdal; and a complaint appears to be of a speci- fic nature the record of proceeding. (,b) the action Government propose in respect of the film complained to take in the light of the study? against is examined to ascertain whe- ther there is any violation of the Di- rections provided under the censor- THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER ship regulations. Comments of :he OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER Central Board of Film Censors are, OF PLANNING AND MINISTER OF called wherever necessary. Re-eer-, EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI t1f1catlon has been provided for under INDIRA GANDID): (a) and (b). the existing regulations but, durin I Government will formulate its views the period 19811 to 1961, no Hindi 81m after studying the book. was re-eertUled. 1921 ~Rl 3, 1968 Written A1asWen PrIceis .of 'l'ra.nsistOrB aDd Diodes loans dlli"iD( the above period aDd the names of Films and 6270. SHRI NARAYANAN: SHRI DHANDAPANI: (c) the amount due for repayment and the actual Bmount repaid till Will the Minister OIl DEFENCE be February, 19681 pleased to state: (a) whether the various manufac- THE MIN1STER OF INFOR.:.'AA- turers of Transist9rised equipment TION .AoND BROADCASTING (SHRI have, as per their assurance, reduced K. K. SHAH): (a) Rs. 1,35,58,842. the price of their poducts as a result -of reduction of prices of transistors (b) A statement containing the in- and diodes by Bharat Electronics Ltd.; formation is placed on the Table at .and the House. [Placed in Library. See (b) if not, the action Government No. LT-734168] propose to take in this regard? (c) Loans that became due for THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE r:payment excluding (SHRI L. N. MISHRA): (a) and interest, upto 29-2-1968 (b) There has already been a down- RS.I,05,68,154 ward trend in the prices of transis- Loans actually repaid tor radios. upto 29-2-1968 Rs.64,0:Z,OOO Film "Nine Bo1ll'lll to n.ama." 11271. SHRI DHANDAPANI: Licence to B.A.L. for Manufacture of A viaUon PrOducts SHRI NARAYANAN: Will the Minister of INFORMA- 6279. SHRI K. P. SINGH DEO: Will TION AND BROADCASTING be the Minister of DEFENCE be pleas- pleased to state: ed ta state: (a) whether Government are consi- (a) whether it is a fact that the dering the question of lifting the ban Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. has been on the film "Nine Hours to Rama", licenced to manllifacture a wide range and of aviation products; (b) if 80, the details thereof? (b) if so, the components likely to be manufactured ,by HAL; and THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI (c) the foreign exchange likely to K. K. SHAH): (a) No, Sir. be saved as a result therefor? ~b) Does not arise. THE MINISTER OF STATE iN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI LoaDS Advanced by FIlm Flaanee 1.. N. MISHRA): (a) and (b). An Corporation acessories Division is proposed tabe set Up by HAL for the manufacture 11272. Shri JUGAL MONDAL: Will OIl Aircraft Instruments and e~so the Minister of INFORMATION AND ries. Licence Agreements have bee..., .BROADCASTING be pleased to state: entered Into by the Company for the (a) the total amount of loans ad- manuf8/!ture 01- vanced by the Film Finance Corpora- Ci) Wheel! and BrRkes; 'tion to the Film Producers till the end .of year 1967-68; (ll) Undercarriages and related hydraulics; and (ib) the namea BJld addresl88 of the Film Producers who have bean CivlUl (W) lnatrwaeDb aDd _i... 1923 Writtm Amulers CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Writtm A7I81De7'B iS1S4 (C) Foreign exchange worth about Personnel Routine Order No. 113 of Bs. 126.00 lakhs is expected to be 11180; saved over a period 01 five years. (b) whether these order. in any way contravene any other order Ol' Pa1 and AllowllDOlB of Def.eDoe article of the Civil Service Regula- PenDDDel tions; and 16274. SHRI RAM SINGH AYAR- (c) the action taken by Govenment WAL: Will the Minister of DEFENCE to repeal the same? be pleased to state the number of cases with the names of affected indi- THE DEPUTY MImSTER IN ~ viduals who haVe been refused bene- MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI M. ~ts of pay and allowances under the R. KRISHNA): (a) The infonnation nn~ Headquarters letter No. 635651 is .being collected and will be laid on AGjORG-4j (D) dated the 19th the Table of the House in due course. August, 1954 and decision of the Con- (b) In view of what has been stated troiler General o()f Defence Accounh at (c) below, the question of 1960 Audit Instruction No. 2229JAT-P, orders contravening other orders or dated 23rd JUly, 1955 as published as articles o()f the Civil Service ReeUla- Appendix 'A' and 'G' in civilian per- tions does not arise. Bonnel Routine Order No. 96 of 19557 (c) The order of 1960 have aIreadJ' THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE been superseded by subsequent MIIDSTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI M. orders issued in December 1967. R. KRISHNA): The benefit of last pay drawn on a previous occasiOn al- Formulation of State Piau lowed under the orders quoted by the 8276. SHRI D. N. PATODIA: Will hon'ble Member is applicable to ail the PRIME MIIDSTER be pleased to non-industrial temporary employees Itate: on their re-appointment to the .,ame post or to a new post, carrying a (a) whether it is a fact that the scale of pay identical with the scale Planning Commission has recently attached to the post from which they issued some directives to the State were discharged, for reasons other Governments in regard to the formu- than resignation, removal or dismis- lation of State Plans; sal. Government have no information regarding the alleged denial of this (b) if SQ, the guidelines suggested benefit to any eligible Individual who in this connection; and applied ~or it. (c) the reaction of the State Gov- ernments in the matter? MJlitary Lands aIld Oantt. Deptt. THE PRIME MINISTER, MINIS- TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- 6275. SHRI RAM SINGH A Y AR- TER OF PLANIDNG AND MINIS- W AL: Will the Minister of DE- TER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS FENCE be pleased to state: (SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) to (c). It is the usual practice that In (a) whether it is a fact that a rum- the process of fonnulation of Strate ber of persons have 'been refused thp Plans, the Planning Commission Issue. condonation of 30 days break: In their guidelines from time to time to the ~er i e by the Military Lands and State Governments, arranges discus- Cantonments Department under thp sions with them and has exchanee of Ministry of Defence letter No. 12 (9) views on the subject. The State Gov_ !l8jl945ID(Civ-II), dated the 24th ernment. have been requested to February, 1960 as published in Civilian make an assessment aI. the ~ Written AnBtDeTB APRIL 3, 1968 Written A1iBUIeT. I:ecorded in the matter of economic (c) the detailed reUOM for the and social development ainee 1950-51 wide variations in the permanent JUld to collect ·basic data at the State posts and the number of officers actu- and district level for the formulation ally made permanent? .f their new Fourth Five Year Plan. THE MINISTER OF INFORAMA- Export o~ indian FIlmI TION AND BROADCASTING (SHiH K. K. SHAH): (8) to (e). A state- 0277. SHRl KASHl NATH PAN- ment is laid on the table of the House. DEY: Will the Minister of INFOR- (Placed in Li·brary. See No. LT-7351 MATION AND BROADCASTING be 68]. pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that the Staff Associations in the Ministry of ftlms Dosti, Sangam, Guide, Teesri information ad BroadcastlDC Kasam, Yaddian, Kaajal, Mere Meh- boob, Mughle-Azam, Aayee Milan Ki Bela and Waqt have been exported 8279. SHRI N. SHiVAPPA: to foreign countries during the last SHRI P. N. SOLANKI: SHRI C. MUTHUSAMY: five years; SHRI GADILlNGANA· (b) if so, the names and addresses GOWD: . at the producers of the said films; aud SHRI H. AJMAL KHAN: (e) the amount of foreign exchange earned by these films during the said Will the Minister of INFORMA- period from abroad and the names of TION AND BROADCASTING be such countries where these have been pleased to state: exhibited? (a) the number and the nomencla- ture of the staft' associatioM recognis- THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- ed by his Ministry since 1960; TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI Ie. K. SHAH): The information is (b) the total membership of these being collected and will be laid on associations in each year since 1960; and the Table of the House. (c) the number and the nature ot Permanent Strength of Different resolutionsimemoranda received dur- Grades in central Information lIlg the last five years and action Service ,aken by Government thereon? 8278. SHRI H. AJMAL KHAN: THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- SHRI C. MUTHUSAMY: TION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI SHRI GADILINGANA K. K. SHAH): (a) to (c). The in- GOWD: formation is being collected and will SHRI J. MOHAMED IMAM: be laid on the table ot the House SHRI P. N. SOLANKI: shortly. Will the Minister of INFORMA- TION AND BROADCASTING be Training in Rocketary, MlsSUIlS and pleased to state: Radar TechnolorY (a) the permanent sanctioned 6280. SHRI S. R. DAMANI: Will strength, witft Jlay scales, in difte- the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased rent grades of Central Information to state: Service as on the 1st March, 1960 and 1st March, 1988; (a) whether there is any program- (b) the number of Officers declar- ~. me to train scientists in the field of ed permanent in each grade during d,. rocketary, missiles and radar techno- the last five years; and I .. logy; ~ 7 Written AMweT. CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Written A1II1DeTI I9.IS . (b) whether Government jlropo.e Service in different media DePan- ito aet up a separate body for coordi- menta of his Mlnlstry in J!lDuarY, nated research and development in 1988; "this field; and (,b) the nature of work performed (e) if 110, the detaila thereof? by each category in differen, media Departments; THE MINISTER OF STAn.. IN (c) whether there is any proposal THE ~S R OF DEFE:'iCE for rationalisation; and tSHRI L. N. MISHRA): (a) Ad-hoe Committees for ·Roeketry, Missiles (d) if so, the broad details thereof and Radar Technology were consti- and how long it will take to d ....clde tuted by the Government In August and implement It? 1966 to draw up programmes of train- THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- log of scientists on a national basis TION AND BROADCASTING (SHEt taking into account resources IlvaU- K. K. SHAH): (a) and (b). A state- ./lDle in the country as a whole and ment is laid on the Table of the llaving regard to the Defence require- House. [Placed in Libra"1l. Sea ments. No. LT-736168]. (c) Yes, Sir. The Committees on Rocketry and Missiles have recommended the estab- (d) The question of rationalisation lishment of a master of engineering iI under consideration of a depart- course in Rocketary and Missiles at mental committee, which is going in- the Indian Institute of Science, Banga- to the whole matter. ·\ore. The proposal is at present un- Tibetans Comlnr to lBeIla der consideration of the Government. 6282. SHRI B. K. DASCHOW- The Committee on Radar Tee!lno- DHARY: Win the Mini:Jtf'.r ot l!7X- logy has recommended the introduc- TERNAL AFFAIRS be pleued to tion of courses in radar, initially at state: one or two Indian Institutes of Tech- (a) whether it is a fact that in nology. The Recommendations of view of the serious situation 1I0W the Committee is under consideration. pre\-ailing in Tibet, many Tibetans are (b) There is at present no suCh seeking shelter in India and many proposal. are entering India through Indo- Nepal border; and (c) Does ot arise (b) if so, the attitude of Govern- ment towards such Tibetan refugees? Posts in DUrerent Grades 01 Central Information Servlel! THE PRIME MINISTER, MINIS- TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- 6281. SHRI D. N. DEB: SHRI Ni SHIVAPPA: TER OF PLANNING AND MINIS- TER OF EXTERNAL AFP'AmS SHRI H. AJMAL KHAN: (SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDH[): (a) SHRI J. MOHAMMED IMAM: (1). In 1967, 945 Tibetan refugees en- SHRI D. R. PARMttR: tered India through dllferent sectors SHRI M. AMERSEY: as against 240 in 1968. The main rea- SHRI V. NARASIMHA: son given by them, tor p.ntering India, RAO: a.~ religious persecution by the SHRI C. C. DESAI: Chinese. So tar, this ea~ only one Will the Minister of IN1!'ORMA.- Tibetan is reported to have entered 'TION AND BROADCASTING be India. -pleased to state: (II) Reports have been received ot (a) the number of grades with their two batches of 68 and 43 Tibetans categories and the number of difTe- having entered India clandestin.. IY Some memben of the.e batchea .,. Cd) the country-win break-up of reported to have stayed in Nepal tor the fI.l.ma not pennitted by the censor- • few year. before enterin, Indian tn, authority? turitor,y. THE MINlS'l'J:R OF INl'ORMA- (b) (i) Attempts are made to dis· TlON AND BROADCASTL"iG (SHRI suade the migrants fram Tibet from It. K. SHAH). (a) to (d). The in- enterin, India. They are however, formation is ,being collected and will permitted entry on humanitarian be placed on the Table of the HoUle. lfOundl. On enterin, India, the mi,- rants are acreened with a view to de- tectiD, Chinen a.. nb, if any. Re- Manufacture of Computer U01 .. fugees whoae bonaMe. cannot be Indfa estabUshed &JIe detained under the Preventive Detention Act. Migrants found to be genuine refu,ees are 112M. SHRl NAMBIAR: Will the given rehabilitation tacilitiM in dif- Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to ferent parts of India. This informa- state: tion was given in answer to Lok (a) whether it ia • fact that Indla: Sabha Starred Question No. 1348 on has started manufacturing Compurer 24 July. 1967 and 18 December. 1967 1401; respectively and in answer to Lok Sabha Unstarred Question No. 14.79 (b) whether this Is being done aated 21 February. 1968. with any foreign collaboration, it SO; the name ot the toreign collaborator (U) We do not favour Tibetan re- and the terms and conditions of the fugees resident in Nepal entprin, collaboration agreement; India due to non-availability of sum- (c) the percentage of the foreign cient land even for those who are al- components and the Indian compo- ready bere. In keeping with our nents used respectively; and policy. instructions have been issued to the State authorities to deport them (d) the amount of foreign exchangt' back to Nepal when detected. required! THE MIISTER OF STATE IN THE Forell'D. FUme Screened In bdl. MINISTRY OF" DEl"ENCE (SHR! L. N. MISHRA): ~ts Bcm1.eI'$ UDder DISPUte CHINA 6285. DR. SUSHILA NAYAR: Will So far .. IIldia-Cllina bar_. _. the Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS concerned, the answer is a> follows: be pleued to state: (a) the extent of India's borders (a) In the Weatem Sector of the under dispute with Pakistan and India..china border the Chit1l!Ie Gov- China; ernment elalms approldmatllly If,500· sq. miles of Indian territory. In the (,b) wheher there are any other Middle Sector l)f the India-Chlna areas of the border which are still to bordei-, the 'Chinese Government'3 . be demarcated; and claim amounts to IIIPProximately 1,000 sq. miles of Indian territary. In the (c) the steps taken to demacrate Eastern Sector of the India-China them? boundary, the ChineSe Government THE PRIME MINISTER, MINIS- claim the entire territory of NEFA TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, I4INIS- which ,belongs to India upfo the foot- TER OF PLANNING AND MINIS- hills of the Himalayas, as Chinese TER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS territory. (SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI): PAKISTAN '(b) and (c). As the Indo..cbina border is well-known and as the above (a) On the Indo-Pakistan borders dispute and questions relatinr the following disputes have so far to it have only heen raised on account of arisen. the ChineSe claims to Indian territol')' Assam-East Pakistan border-7 and tlie forcible Occupation of 1f,5OO miles (Approx.) Tripura-East Pakis- sq. miles of Indian territory in tan border-48 miles (Approx.) Ladakh by Chinese forces, there is no question of demarcatinr the India- (b) The other undemarcated boun- China border unless the Chinese ag- daries. apart from the J. &: K. Sector, gre5sion in Ladakh fa .vacated and are as follows; unless ChineSe claims to other parts of Indian territory in the Middle and (1) Gujarat-West Pakiatan boun- Eastern Sectors are dropped. dary (Approximately 290 miles) ~R. (li) West Bengal-East Pakistan PrfograDlDle ''Today In boundary (Approximately 95 ParUament" miles excludin.g nearly 118 miles of fluid boundary) 6286. SHru S. K. TAPURIAH: Will the Minister of INFORMATION AND (iii) Assam-East Pakistan boun- BROADCASTING be pleased to s1ate: dary (Approximately 190 miles) (c) the steps taken by Govern- (c) whether the amount received 'ment to improve the quallt,' of the 10 tar had been earmarked for the purchase of Gnats Or whether it has . ro~amme and to make it more impartial? been used for other purposes? THE MINISTER OF lID"ORMA- THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (SHRI SWARAN SINGH): (a) to (c). I1'ION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI K. K. SHAH): (a) A few comments The following information in this con- ihave been received. nection has been supplied by the Office of the Chief Minister, Rajas- (b) Journalists who attend the pro- than:- ceedings of the two Houses regularly and who can spare the time lor writ- "The Chief Minister of RBjasthan ing the commentary are Invited. There had announced in a public meeting at ,ill no fixed panel of Script Writers ot Jaipur on 28th October, 1965 in the this programme but journalIsts are presence of the late Prime Minister . taken on as and when necessary. Lal Bahadur Shastri that sufficient donations would be raised for Defenc.:. (c) The tas~ of preparing the com- Fund to finance the purchase cf a mentary is assigned to n 'lumber of squadron of Gnats. Contributions senior J'olfrriaIists in weekly rotation have 'been collected from the and thereby an attempt is made to people of Rajasthan fOr Na- ensure that no fixed att.itude or slant tional Defence Fund and for Chief is perpetuated. This a!so lends to the Minister's Defence Services Welfare commentary a certain freshness and Fund and the total collections in a variety of aproach which it. would these two Funds for the period from 'be diffiCUlt to achieve With one Com- 1st September, 1965 to 28th February, mentator. The duration of the pro- 1968 come to about Rs. 96,15,164. gramme "To-day in Parliament" has There was no in tention cf starting -been doubled from five to ten minu- a separate fund for procurement of ,tea. Besides, the programme is under Gnats. The assurance of the Chief .constant review and such stePs as are Minister was symbolic, indicating that oeonsidered necessary are taken to im- A Gnat squadron could be purchased prove its quality. In order to make the from the sum total of .unount col- commentary free from bias and as lected in Rajasthan for Defence Fund. broad-based as possible it i~ also pro- posed to include more journalists in Popularisation of Improved Varieties of Seeds, Fertilillers IDsectlcldes and it. Pesticides. Rajasthan Squadron for I.A.F. 6288. SHRI G. S. MISHRA: Will the Minister of INFORMATION AND 6287. SHRI S. K. TAPURIAH: Will BROADCASTING be pleased tl} state: 'the Minister of DEFENCE be pleased to state: (a) the programmes drawn up by A. I. R. to popuiarise the use of im- (8) whether It is a fact that the proved quality of seeds, fertilizers, Chief Minister of Rajstban had pro- insecticides and pesticides and to po- mised the late Prime Minister Lal puiarise the cooperative movement Bahadur Shastri and the former De- and its long-term benefits with a view fence Minister that people ot Rajas- to keep informed the rural popula- than will donate a Squadron of Gnats tion about the number of welfare to the I. A. F.; schemes framed by the State Govern- ments and the Central Government (b) if so, how much funds dona- I from time to time; and ttonslcontributions have so far been .received from Rajsthan in this regard; (.b) the Yardstick adopted by Gov- and ernment to find out the success of thelr :1935 Written AnstDers CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA). Written Answer. 1936 "arious publicity schemes in the rural '!'HE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THa: and urban side? MINISTRY OF DEFENCE (SHRI M.R. KRISHNA): (a) No such policy dl!- THE MINISTER OF INFORMA- cision has been taken by Govern- TlON AND BROADCASTING (SHRI ment. However, the EngIneer-In- K. K. SRAH): (a) 18 intensive Farm Chief, Army Headquarters have issu. and Home Units have been lstabUsh- ed certain administrative lllIItructiona 1ld to popularise the use of Improved regarding transfers Of civillon subor- quality of seeds, fertilisers, insecti- dinate personnel in the M. E, S. cides -and pesticides by broadcasting which inter alia lay down that indi- -specially designed programmes for the viduals over 53 years of age will not agriculturists. Prollrammes on the be transferred from one zone tc anl)- various aspects of the ',o-operatlve ther zone, unless, they volunteer for movement are broa a ~t in the local such a transfer. Hence Individuals programmes by all stations of AIR above 53 years can be transferred from time to time for popularising from one Station to another Station the cooperative movement. Welfare located within the same zone. schemes framed by State and the Central Governments are incorporat- ed in the Rural programme schedules for broadcast from all the stations. (,b) Yes. Sir. (b) A few studies have been made (c) Out of the two clerks who were far ascertaining the utility of rural- transferred outside Delhi. one had cum-urban programmes and It has volunteered. Another was transferred been found that these have proved outside Delhi in replacement of a useful to the community. clerk posted to Delhi on compassio- nate grounds. Civilian Subordinate Personnel of M.E.S. (d) Yes Sir. 6289. SHRI RAMACHANDRA VE- RAPPA: WiIl the Minister of DE- FENCE be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that a policy (e) The volunteer clerk Inter want- decision has been taken by his Minls- ed to withdraw his request. '!'his was try that civilian subordinate person- not accepted and he was posted out. nel of M. E. S. who have attained the The second clerk was posted to a Sta- age of 53 years will not be transfer- tion in Rajasthan which then formed red outside their Headquarters unless part of Delhi zone. Hls posting was they themselves volunteer; thus within the zone and his appeal (b) whether it is also a fact that for cancellation of transfer was re- movement orders have been served to jected. certain M. E. S. employees workinllt in Commander Works Engineer, Palam who have attained the age of even 54 Backward Areq }Tears; (c) if so, the reasons for such trans- 6290. SHRI UMANATH: wm the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to refer 'fer outside Delhi; to the statement made during the (d) whether any appeals in pur- Half-an-Hour discu!l8lon on the :&11th 1Iuance of the above policy declsion, September, 1964 regardinll the deve- have been made by such employees: lopment of backward 'lreas r,nd Itate: and (a) the follow-up action taken after (e) if so, the details thereof and the Identification of Backward are.. the action taken thereon? in each State; 1937 Written AnS1DerB APRIL 3, 1968 Written AtUWerB (b) the follow-up action t.l.ken to implement the assurance to make spe- dal allocation from the Centre to- wards the development of identified 6292. "'0 ~ WR: ~ backward areas in Madras and other .i~-m lI'tt ~ ~ if>"t tm rn States, in addition to the normal plan N: allocations; ( ~) iflfT ~ ~ ~ f1!; '«"fT1f (c) if no, sspecial allocations are it made So far, the reasons therefor; and lIr.C1i;:nllnil~ilr. ri l srf¥iifT-'«it 'li"T ~ 30,S59 ~ 'l': ::;rR ~ ~ ~ 6291 . ~~ ~ ..,0 fJRlf r i~ 'If) mfl:r<;r ~ 1 5,171 nA lief\" ~ ~ ~) '!"IT m ~ mAT m t~ ~~ if 'l!ilm: Drama Staged by Chinese Cultural m1'lf (d) if so, whether Government have (b) the reasons for the delay; and sent any protest note to the Govern- ment of Pakistan against such anti- ec) the time by which they would Indian activities under the grab of so- be completed? called Chinese cultural ertorman es~ THE PRIME MINISTER, MINISTER THE PRIME MINISTER, :w.INIS- OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER OF TER OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINIS- PLANNING AND MINISTER OJf EX- TER OF PLANNING AND MINISTER TERNAL AFFAIRs (SHRIMATI OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI- INDIRA GANDHI): (a) to (c). The MATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) Chi- detailed information required is being nese cultural ensemble, "The a~t Is collected and will be placed on the Red". toured East Pakistan in Feb- Table of the House; this will take ruary last and gave several pcrfnr- some time. mances. Indian Nationals In U.s.A. (b) The theme of one of the maIn 6295. SHRI MAHANT DIGVIJAI items was Pakistan-China rien ~ i NATH: Will the Minister Of EXTER- against the back-drop of Ute 1965 con- N AL AFFAIRS be pleased to state: flict. In this sequence, Chinese lind Pakistani troops were seen marchlni (a> whether it Is a taet that the against what the commentator des- U. S. Government have reduced their cribed as the reactionary forces of old quota of granting U. S. citizen- Bharat. ship to the Indian Nationals residin, there; (c) On the opening day, the Leader ,of the troupe HSU PING rleclared (b) if so, whether Government that Pakistan could rely on China in have received some representations 10 its fight against what he called India's this regard? expansionist design. He also ~tate (c) whether Government have ap- 1hat seven hundred million people of proached the U. S. Government to 'China support for what he termed make some relaxation in the rules the struggle of Kashmirls for their and regulations for granting U.S. right of self-determination. citizenship to the Indian nationals; and (d) The Government of India are (d) if so, the details thereof? fully alive to the collusion between Pakistan and China which is eviden- THE PRIME MINISTER, J41NISTER tly aimed against India. The lmDlica- OF ATOMIC ENERGY, MINISTER OF tions of this policy have been pointed PLANNING AND MINISTER OF EX- SHRI Y. B. CHAVAN: I am very SHRI Y. B. CHAVAN: I think the glad you are doing that. I have said hon. Member is making very sensa- that it was on the initiati~e of thE!' tional statements. I do not tbink he police that they unearthed this plot .is related to any Minister. I do not and arrested those persons. It was not 'think the hon. Member is right ID thaI: just an accident that the culprits came statement. into their hands. ~ ~. (~(..a~ur) : As far a, the other aspect "is con- ~ ~ 1 ~""' if ~ ~~ InT t fit; o£erned, I havE!' myself given the infor- mi[ ~ ~ ~.- r rrit ~ IfIl'T mation that the Naga hostiles are only in touch with China, but some ~~ if (fiI' ~ ~.1 ~~ t of them are in China and they are Iii[ . ~ "Ili1fT ~ f.tt IfqT If{! ~ If{ trying to get wellJ)ons there. The -~~ ~ ? ~ "I'T'lTql 1fT f'q) Prime Minister has also said yesterday if that it is something which is against, <'ffll'f 11» iI1!Tif(!" i ~ it; ~ l~1 ~ . which is inconsistent with, our agree- t ~) ~ 1Il'fTt ~ t ~ IflJT '(rof ment with them. ml i ~ ~ ~ l ~~ i ~ iii f<'rl( ~ This Is the basic usessment. The 1 lR~~ if ~ ;tT ~~ iii flntfs Government have already taken steps, m ~ rn ~ <'flfff 1IiT 'I« m it> and we are takiq steps on this. ~ IIfri ~(1 ~ra-! r ? SHRI NA.TH PAl: 'The speci1lc ques- SHRI Y. B. CHAVAN: The hon. -tJon 11'81 whetber tliJB man was Dot: member want. to know whether _ U80datecl wita the 8epIlratiat mOVIt- had aaked the PalWtan Gevemmeal: ment Iinee t~ ~ ot 198'7 and about these people who have ero... aleo a _ber Of • partICular poUttcal sed acrOsi the librder. lIy 1Df_ party;' ...... ~ lDlellliaDce J)e.. tion ta, ... iul e ~ JlartmeDt "knew it. ther he baa crossed across the bordIrr• .DO (ai)LSD-4i. Question of APRIL 3, 1968 Privtlege 1950' e t ~ ro ~ 9 ~~ ~ ~ 'fI' ( t it ~ ~ iF ~ ~ ~ i ~ ~n ;l ttq ~ .-;f ~ tI1fT, in ~ t 30,000 ~~l. ~~l rr~i ~r~ ? ~ - I!iI ~ ~ ~ qrtf SHJU Y. B. CHA VAN: In this mat- iliT fl:lrT ~ ~ mr ~ ~~ ~ r ter, you do not make enquiries of the lli ~ 9;f!llI'IlJ, ~ ~ Government like this. Are if >it m, mr w&e:w;pecti:ng them to II'IlY yes or no to it ~ flrl'f if"{ ~-1 r ~ ~ ~ I this matter? 1fT0f·ftlf ~~ >it ~ m, It''"o eTo mo iF ~ it i!if ~ ~ w.:r' ~ '"" ~ on1 ~t ? SHRI M. L. SONDHI (New Delhi): it ~ ~ fit; ~ ~ ltNifT lfft IfTit lfT i{T ~it I 7.Il ~R rt I ~ q: 1ft ~ ~ \lI1f i ~ ~ ~ ~~ 'f{ ~ ~ fit; ~ if IJI'tt ~ "t.l' t ~ >,fr ~ If\;I1' ;;tI'aT ~ ~ (Ai, ~ WliTOr ~ m~~~m ~~~ l! t im~ ~ m ~ ~ ~ I ~m r ~ I ~ ... ~~ ~ .r if fiAi ~ ~ ~~i ~ ~ : ~ filrilf tTlfT, Of SHRI AMRIT NAHATA: On a point ~~ 7 ~i r f MR. SPEAKER: Shri Gupta h:ld There is no question Of any undue raised su many points. Why dont you pressure being brought an anybody ., hear the other side also. .... (interruptions) . All that he did was, during his conversation wi'h the Rajamat3 he mentioned it. She show- ~ ~ ~ ~ 'fTmr: ed interest. So, he had given her the ~ ~ >R ~ 'f!fT ~ w.;fffi'f 'fi1: same facts which he had given to the ~ ~ Member and she had spoken to him. There is no question of any undue MR. SPEAKER: He is clarifying ilie interference or pressure being brougllt position. on any member .... (I.nterruptions). SHRI DINESH SINGH: The Chair- MR. SPEAKER: Now, will you all man went into the details of this anl- kindly sit down. The question of fur- cle and explained to the hon. Member ther discussion of this· matter will the inaccuracies that there were In this arise only If leave is granted. For article. Thereafter, he had an opp<>r- granting leave it should have the IUP- tunity of meeting the Rajamata, whkh port of 25 Members. So, I would now has been referred to in this House, and request those hon. Members who are he had an opportunity of biking to in favour of the motion being referred her and explaining to her the same to the Privileges Committee to stand positiun which he had explained to the on their seats .... I flnd that more than Member. Now, the Member in his let- 25 hon. Members are in favour of It. ter has quoted ..•• (interruptlotu) So, leave Is granted. SHRI SURENDRANATH DWlVEDY (Kendrap.ra): She Is not a member ~~~ (~) Of this BOlIN. ~ ~ itu ~ qT1Ii ~ SBRI DINESB SINGH: What the t , ~ ~ n1 am amr x-ber 18:78 about this. it Is V8l7 ~t7 1957 Pa.pers laid APRIL 3, 1968 Con.titution (Amendment) Bm 11ft ~ l "",i : flf'iflf mr MlilfT I on the Table a copy of the Ezport of CGir Yarn (Inspection) AmeDdment MR. SPaAKER; I would requCBtali Rules, 1988, publUhed in Notiacatlon of them to sit down. Let us calmly No. S.O. 1003 in Gazette of India dated discuss the issue. Now that leave is the 18th March, 1988 under Bui)..sec1iion granted, the motion may be Jll\)ved. (3) of section 17 of the Export (QU'a- lity Control and Inspection) Act, 1963. 't) q!tII' fqm 1tl ~~ Ifl'tm [placed in Ubrary. See No. LT-726/ 1ll~1 ff firlflf ~li r 226 ~ 1 ~~~ 68] ~ i ~r ~ o1 ~ ~ ~ 'lmrr f1ti 1ST! 1f!f>: <'f11'f ~~r if \t\'fo ~!o ~!o AUDIT REPORT AND APPROPRIA- t TION ACCOUNTS ~ iil 1 ~ ~ ~ i~ ~ r r 1 iR ;o(,ofQOf THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE !fi1' ;;r) 1fnrOfr ;;oPH ~ ;oft rr~ ~ ft:rli MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI K. C. f' MR. SPEAKER: Since the Govern- COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEM- ment have accepted it, there 19 no BERS' BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS necessity for any debate at this stage. Whatever discussion is necessary can TwENTY-SIXTH RI':PORT take place In the Privileges Committee. We will now refer it to the Privileges SHRI KHADJLKAR (Khed): Sor. I Committee. l wlU now .put to the beg to present the Twenty-sixth Re- mot'ion of Shri Vajpayee to the vote of port of the Committee on Private the House. The question is: Members' Bills and Resolutions. "This House resolves that the question of breach Of privilege ESTIMATES COMMITTEE raised by Shri Kanwar Lal Gupta FORTY-FIRST REPORT against the Chairman, State Trad- ing Corporation, be referred to SHRI S. KANDAPPAN (Mettur): the Committee of Privileges for Sir, I beg to present the Forty-first invut'iiation with Instructions to Report of the Estimates Committee on report by the first day of the next the Ministry Of Food, Agriculture, session to the House." Community Deveiopment and Coope- ration (Department of Agricultul't')- The motion wa.s adopted. Central Institute of Fisheries Opera- tives, Ernakulam. 1!.38 Ibn. PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL EXPORT OF COlR YARN (INSPEC- TION) AMENDMENT RULES SHRI KHADILilCAR (Klied); I beg to move the following: THE M1NlSTER OF COMMERCE "That this House ·reconuneJlds to (SHRI DJNESH SINGH): I be, to lay Rajya Sabha that Raj,.. Sabba do J959 D.G. (Min. of ;CHAl'lJlA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Educatioll) 1960 appoint three members of .Rajya move it. Therefore, I should be aHow- Sabha to the Joint Committee on ed to move my cut motion 189. the OOllSUttition' :(Amendment) Bill, 1967 by ShriNath Pai, in MR. SPEAKER: Yes. the vacancies c:aused by the retire- SHRI S. M. BANERJEE: I beg to ment of Sarvashri Ram Niwas m\:)ve:- Mirdha. J. Sivashanmj1gam Pillai and Triloki Singh trom Rajya "That the demand under the Sabha and communicate to this head Education be reduced by Rs. HOuse the names of the members 100." so appointed by Rajya Sabha to ·the Joint Committee." [Failure to improve the lot of the teachers in the country. (189) 1 MR. SPEAKER: The question is: MR. SPEAKER: Now his cut motion "That thIs House recommends to is also before the House. Rajya Sabha that Rajya Sabha do cappoint three members 01 .Rajya SHRIMATr TARA SAPRE: Now, Sabha to the Joint Committee on coming to the question of text-books the Constitution (Amendment) I w'ould like to point out the state of Bill, 1967 by Shri Nath Pai. in the affairs in my State which is not quite vacancies caused by the retirement satisfactory. Many of the text bookl of Sarvashri Ram Niwas Mirdha. are hardly ready in time, at the time J. Sivashanmugam Pillal 'and oC the opening. Of the schools. The 'Tri.loki Singh tram Rajya Sabhs quality of paper and printing is poor. and communicate to this House Sir. if we want to build up reading the names of the members ~o habits in children, we must see that the appointed by Rajya Sabha to the text-books are gracefully sued, boldly Joint Committee." and clearly and neatly printed and elegant '!Ind attractive jackets are pro- The motion was adopted. vided. To achieve 'Our objectives in this regard. we should have an autono- :12.40 hl'S. mous body in each State whIch worb in collaboration with NCERT. DEMANDS FOR GRANTS. 196~.a9 --<:emtd. At the university stage gl6antic: efforts must be made to develop text MINISTRY OF EoUCATIoN--contd. books in all the modern Indian langu· ages. Substantial help from the' MR. SPEAKER: We have got still Centre should be given for g'Ood trans.' :about four how·s. I would suggest lations of technical books in the that the Minister may reply at 5 p.m. modern Indian languages. Let there Now Smt. 'fara Sapre may continuE' not be any discrimination in the pro- her speech. Will the hon. Member tection given to modem Ind12n langu- kindly finish as quickly as possible ~s ages. All efforts should be made t<> she has already taken 8 minutes? build up text book libraries In all SHRlMATI TARA SAPRE (B'om- educational institutrons SO that every bay-North-East): Mr. Speaker. Sir ... 5t udent has reasonable ac<'ess to books. SHRr S. M. BANERJEE - S~. I would like to mention about the SHRI NATH PAl (Rajapur): Hers budget inadequacies. We are creating is a maiden speech, let it not be inter- smaH States in the Mtn1atriel. The rupted. same can be laid of the csm for which we have allotted Rs. 48 _. SHRI S. M. BANERJEE (Kanpur): The recruitment Of l'eleardl.lCholan 'Mr. 9peelter. Sir, J have'!l cut Motion has been criticued vtI,lesnentl7 in this cut mOUon Ro. 188. yesterday I was House. The real relearch teholar II ftOt preM!IIt here aDd 10· I could not always starved of ) . ~ he is D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) [Shrimati Tara Sapre] never able to reach the seat oi king· factor is said to be the ultimate factor d'Om. in all hum'3n affairs and education is. the medium to mould and train that I now come to the examination reo human factor. It has its Bl'eatest sig,.. form. This is the root cause of the nificance and importance particularly. present student disturbances and in a democratic set-up. strikes. Entire emph'3sis. is laid on memorizing the subject ar.:i reproduc- 12.45 hrs. ing it once in a year. This is abso- lutely a wrong method to judge the [MR. DEpUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair] calibre of the pupil. Some evaluation of pilot stud'les are necessary both re- Sir, now the system of education g-ardin1. the structure Of reionns a'1d that we inherited from the British was their practicability and acceptability. not meant to build this country, train The present system must be remodell- the people of this country or to edu- ed. It should reveal the likely deSIr- cate them. It was meant to create· able directions of change in which some clerks for the administratitm. educational effort should be channelis- Therefore, it was expected that oafter ed. the British had withdrawn, the system WIll undergo a radical change. But Lastly, Sir, I will be fail\ng in IT y unfortunately even twenty years after duty it I do not mention the difficulty freedom, our eduC'3tional system con- of our d'lstrict schools. From the re- tinues to be as it was. If anything. it port we learn that a substantial ~ i has further deteriorated. For the first for the progress of education :3 ('ffend 19 years of freedom our educational every year by UNESCO, but the system was presided over by people National Commissi'Ons at 'State level wh'O had nothing to do With Educa· are not reaching the district scho'Ols. tion at all. Therefore. I need not UNESCO International Coupons complain 3gainst them. But when Dr. Scheme or Gift Coupons were never Triguna . Sen took over this Ministry heard in the districts. May I request last year, a hope was created that he the hon. Minister that all the UNESCO is a man who knows something about aid and their pre-requisites should be Education and somethin!! will be done. made avaUable to the district schools But, sir, the experience Of the last one through the Zilla Parishads. Only big Ye'3r has shown that Dr. Triguna Sen towns and the metropolitan cities nlso has becnme a prisoner of the sys- are getting all the advantages of tem which he has inherited. Either these schemes. The State agency he must change it or he will get lost must be directed to go to the District in it, and it is the country that will level. suffer by that. • Before I conclude, Sir, I would like to rray a word about the National Ser- Therefore, my suggestion is that we vice Scheme. The idea of National have to look at the problems of edu.ca- Service Scheme must be properly put tion and the budget of the Education into efrect. Before starting we must Ministry not through the grooves in have the work-programme for the which they h:we been moving so far, C'Oming 2-3 years. In this context I but we must do Borne fresh thinking. am proud to mention the work taken I have carefully gone through the re- up In my State for rebuilding of pri- port of the Ministry. It makes a, mary iChoolll with the he1p of college sickening reading. It deals with lRudents in the Kayn'S affected area. everything except Education. There SIr, there III great enthusiaam among are 110 many institutions. There are the 8tuclaatl and the teachers abo. so many subordinate departments which COIIIIWne most of the budlet: SHRI BAL RAJ MADHOK (South and the real ICOpe aDd 1IJGII'k or the- Delhi): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the human JI1Dl8tr7 II Dot aJI7Wh- to· be -... 1963 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKAr We have no money for real education. 'it and lot of money is bein, lpent. If a new look is given in respect of There are Rs. 75 l'llkha earmarked fnr the expenditure incurred by the dilfer- regional training teachers for poly- ent departments I think that there is technics. The institutions we have lot of scope for simplification, for already started out have produced a rationalisation, and for economy. glut Of engineers who cannot get em- pl'Oyment, but still here we find that a sum of Rs. 75 lakhs has been ear- Some time back there was a strike marked for training teachers poly- of the tliachers of Delhi. They wanted technics. We have Rs. 20 lakhs for a some more pay and other amenities. Forge Foundry School in Ranchi. We But they were told that the Govern- have already the Heavy Electricals ment have no money for them. But there on which we have spent Rs' 150 when I look at the report I find how crores. Why cannot the Forge money is being wasted. There is an Foundry School be a part of 'Heavy Institute of Advanced Studies at Electricals? Simla. It h'3S been given the Presi- dential palace there. More than Rs. Then, we have the NCERT for which 11 lakhs have been earmarked for it. about Rs. 2 crores have been earmark- What was the real work which it did ed. I have been trying to look Into last year? There were three semin'3rs the report as to what work It h'ls been held, 'One on Language and Society in d'Oing. No real, worthwhile work is which it tried to criticise and condemn being done by it even though RI. 2 the Government for its language crores are being spent on this spraw- policy. Another was on the influence ling organisation. of Islam in Contemporary India. There were the seminars held; '3nd So, a lot of economy can be made if this is all that was done; and it has this proliferation of the Education consumed more than '3 million rupees Ministry can be stopped. I know, last of this Education Ministry's budget. ye'3r the Education Minister was able Then, Sir, we have here in Delhi a to effect an economy Of about a crore Nehru Museum in which some reli ~ of rupees by ordering that in future of late Pandit Nehru are kept. The the conferences of the Ministry would palatial building Of Teen murti House not be hcld outside Delhi. I think, he is being occupied by it and a bud!(pt is capable of making more economy of Rs. 11 lakhs h'3S been earmarked also, but then he must !(et out of this for that also. Why cannot the relic9 system. The Education Ministry must of Pandit Nehru be kept in a room 'O.t concentrate only on the work which the National Museum? Why should is meant for it and that is mainly edu- so much money be wasted there? We cation. have a Jamia-Mili'3 in DeIhL A grant of Rs. 18 lakhs has been earmarked for it. There are hardly a thousand stu- When we come to education, there dents studying there. The college are two main as e~ne is the from which I come, has more th'3n structure of educBt'ion Bnd the other thousand students. But they get RI. is the content of education. WhltR II lakhs only from the Government of you come to the structure Of educa- bulia as grant. But here is an Insti- tion, it is primary educstion which 11 tute for which you spend so much the base. It is on that baae that the money. You have given it RI." entire educational edifice of the coun- crorea during the last 19 years and try has to be built. But what do we you are &tving RI. 18 lakhs more thIs see here? We have had two unlver- year. Then, there 'Is tbe Delhi 8ebool lity comm'IISh:lna aDd ODe bi&her MC- of internatronaJ. Btucite&. It wu part ODdary ...... mllpOD but .0 far tbent Of the Delhi UD!V8l'Iity. NOw it 118, has. been 110 attempt made neD to· been made a aeparate UlItvenity aU •. ltudy the ptOblem 01 primary educa- tap-beavy ~tio . Ia Ifva to tion In tbiI-e0unb7, It Ia IJ'OWiq _ ' ·n.G.(Min. of APRIL 3, 19~ EduCXIt1on) [Shri Mal Raj Madhok] a jltngle. There ill no co-ordination For that purpose I would suggest and the. primary teacher ill the most that primary education at least must negleeted man in thil country. The become a concurrent subject. 'l'he courses of study also are quite diffe- States cannot do it. They do not have rent. the resources. And, may be, the State ministries and the politicians My first submission is that thlS Ministry must concentrate on imprOve- there think that if the electorate gets ing primary education in this country. educated they might not get t .~ir votes. Therefore, sometimes I really For that purpose I have to make some specific suggestions. (,lne is wonder whether the people who rule that you must appoint a primary edu- this country are really imereslerl in educating the people of this country. cation commission which should CO,,- sist of not only some top vice-chsn- The time has come when we see tbat if we do not educate the voters, our cellors and others but sflme r lnar~ teachers, some public men and 80me masters, democracy is going to go to people who come from the rural dogs. Therefore it is very importa],t areas SO that it may go into the ques- that primary education should beco:ne a concurrent subject and something tion of primary education in all its aspects and suggeet how we can have should be done to improve it. a correlated and co-ordinatad system Then comes the secondary educa- of primary education a 11 nv(' th<' tion. At the secondary stage so'ne- . country. thing has been done but even now much needs to be done. Wi!! need a Secondly, we shOUld tt'j to evolve' committee like the UGC i ~ shOUld uniform pattern of reCruitment of pri- distribute funds for SeCOnclDI'Y educa- mary teachers. We must provide tion allover the country. Therl' them unifocm amenities. So far in should not be haphazard growth. some States the primary teacher i. Secondly, We must make the higher being paid Rs. 100 or Rs. 150 but in secondary examination the entrance other States only Rs. 70 or Us. 80. examination for all professional col- Most of the funds of the Government leges and all public services. This i~ must go to improve the lot of the pri- the only way in which we can make mary teacher. It is the primary tea: higher secondary education worth- eher who really prepares the bash:, whle and remove the ra ~ for de- the foundation, of the ~tu ent and if grees which is commcrcinlisin;: ollr primary education is not good ~t in higber education. is going to come out of it. So far as higher education is con- cerned, when we talk of higher ec!u- We hear the talk of falling stulld- cfttion we talk only of uni er~iti ·.rd.. To improve standards we ilive open more universities, provide more grants to universities and put up vice-chancellors and more professorr. buildings and laboratories. They IU'L I entirely agree with what Professor not going to raise the Iltandllrd. Un- Amin said about the way they arl'! ap- til aad unless we raise the 'itandard pointed and what they do there. I do of primary education, we are build- not want to repeat what ~ said, but ing the educational edlflce of the this is not the way of improving higher country on foundations uf sand and education. If you really want to Im- any building built on oun ation~ of prove standards of hleher educabon, And cannot ltand for long. 'l'here- you nwst have good teachers. The tore, tbeftrlt thiq ill that thill Minis- standard of education is dctermine [8hri Bal Raj Madhok] We had only one Aligarh. But now destroyed. Later on, the Municipality in Delhi itself, in the Capital city put up a stronger name plate with also, we have a branch of Aligarh; I the help of iron pillers. That was mean, the Jamia Millia. I congratu- also destroyed. There a Nehru is late the Education Minister 8nd also Park in the University in which stood the Home Minister that they asserteu a statue of Mahatma Gandhi. That themselves some months back and for statue was broken to pieces. They the first time after 20 years of free- cannot tolerate the name of Mahatma dom this institution which is entire- Gandhi; they cannot tolerate the name ly run by the funds of the Govern- of Lal Bahadur Shastri; they cannot ment of India, in which more than tolerate the name of even Panliit 65 per cent of the students are Jawaharlal Nehru. This is the Uni- Hindus, the weekly holiday has !>e- versity. What they are tear.hing there come Sunday instead of Friday, after is pure communalism. In fact, Pak- long protestations by the boys. This istan could not have a bigger centre institution falls in my constituency of education where Pakistani ideo- and so, some of the boys approached logy could be developed and reared. me. That boy who approached lIIE What is the position? We are giving with this genuine complaint was ex- more than a crore of rupees annually pelled from the college, he was a as grant to that institution. But in M.A. student, by name Kapil:!, his that city itself, there are four other whole career has been spoiled be- degree colleges with the strength of cause he had the (!ourage and the more than five thousand students and patriotism to come to me and say. those colleges cannot take any bene:]t 'Here is an institution which should of the grant that we make to the be closed on Sunday and IAlt OIl University because they are not uftI- Friday'. This is a scandalous insti- liated to the Aligarh University. I tution. If you go into the whole wonder why cannot these colleges thing, you will find this. I have tried which are in Aligarh city itself be to study, I have been there; I do not a1!lliated to the University? say anything without verifying the facts. Here is an institution in which Sometime back, a move was made most of the boys belong to one com- to change the character of this Uni- munity, but the staff belong to an- versity. It was then demanded that other community. .Recently, Dr. we must change the character of the Prasad of the Delhi UniverSity was Banaras Hindu Universitv also and appointed to go into the working of to remove the word 'Hindu' from ita this college and he said that 90 per name. Any student of history knows cent of the staff of this co lIege came that anyone who is an Indian is n only from Aligarh University, and it Hindu. 'Hindu' is not a religious is being developed as a branch of the term. The word 'Indian' is a Greek Aligarh University. I would suggest synonym for the word 'Hindu'. Even that a Parliamentary Committee then. if AIigarh people want a pound should be set up to inquire into the of flesh, I do not mind. Even if you working of Jamia Millia. You have have to remove the word 'Hindu' given Rs. 4 crores to this one college from the Banaras Hindu University, during the last 20 years and you are for God sake, you change the charac- going to give it now Rs. 18 lakhs ter of the Aligarh University it you more. It has a Vice-Chancellor who want to really develop a national has been there since 1948; he Is not outlook and national unity in this called 'Vice-Chancellor' or 'Kulapati', eountry. Either the Allgarh Univer- he is called 'Sheikh-ul-Jamla.' He Is sity should be wiped out or Its charac- the Sheikh of Jamia. Just as we have ter must be completely changed. nils I, my demand ancl this Is the demand the Sheikh of BahreIn, we have • of the whole country. Sheikh In DeIhl al80l '1'h1s JdDcl of' 197 I D.G. (Min. of CHAlTRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) EClucat1Oft, 19'; thing caJ:".llot be tolerated. I would 11ft t~~ ~ ( ~) like to appeal to the Education Min- ister, and also warn the .country that, ~ fcc!1' ~ ~ t~n1 ~ mt~ if they allow this kind of thi.g to ";3'OAT ~r ~ ~ 'ifrflflIT flff<'fIfT continue Delhi, they be spoil- in will ~ ~ r ur~ iii' ~ r~ ltiT ing the pe&ee of Delhi, they will be spoiling the educational atmosphere ~i i f.m;r ~ I "1"1<: r~ fifo 1nfT-.rw;r of Delhi, and, therefore, it is very feR ~ l'fi"!lf if <:'f1fr 'fT I ~ ~ urgent that J amia Millia must be l ~ ~! ~! ~ri. ~ '(f either cleaned or wiped out. The m if 'iff best thing would be that it should be ~ ~ 'flIT ~ ~r ~rt ~ ~ ~ Ifr'fiT affiliated to the Nehru University ~ 3fTI1IfT ? which is going to be opened . . . (In- terruptions) . I am not yielding. -(l ~1) [ ;./ .... - ,,3"--' ¥,,£ ] Nehru University is going to be opened, and Jamia Millia, the Indian .::..'u'ri u+" - t- ~.) ~) :School of International Studies and .} IJ"- l1 ~ Ul,:;r .p,f uJ the Institute of Advanced Studies j ~ u)'.x_,o),Uo £.,L. ~ could be affiliated to the Nehru Uni- ..,s ..,o)I l versity; this will save money and - ~ "J ~ u)1..t.i U-.tl 5' ~ ,olq. will improve their effi.ciency also. ..,atlif W4-- u)tt.. , ~. u .} r 13 hrs. I.l V/t.. ~ i c.J"1 - I.ti 4S, .L 1,)6" ~ ~ ..1~ ~ ,t.,. ~ I would a;ppeal that the education VIt"- " ..No).Ju.. ..; iJ l.,s 'of this country should aim at build- ~.sl~ I.,rol £aJ,.. ing Up the character of this country. - [ r It must create a right sense of values MR.. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There in this country; it should create a is no point of order. Simply becauae feeling of patriotism in this country. some controversial matter has bec.n For that purpOse, it is very essential raised, I cannot provide extra time. that the teaching of History must be The spokesman of the hon. Member's improved. It is said that if you distort party would be "Peaking and h. the history of the country, you destroy shOuld take it up and he can fJq the nation. In this country what are something on it. we teaching? If somebody says that SHRI BAL RAJ MADHOK: To he is a Christian and Clive was a sum up, I want to say that thia un- Christian and, therefore, Clive is his Ilecessary proliferation of the Educa- hero, and Gandhiji was not a Chris- tion Ministry must be stopped. The tian and, therefore, he is a kaf!r, what Education Ministry must concentrate will I call him? To this country only on two things. on improving Mohammad Ghari and Mohammad- primary education and on correlating bin-Kasim came as invaders. Prith- the educational work going 011 in viraj Chauhan fought as a leader of different States and also providing this country . .. (Interruptions). I facilities for higher education. For am not yielding. I want to know that purpose, it is ~ important that this. If anybody says that because the Central u~t. on Ministry should Prithviraj Chauhan did not belong to run some Central universlUel l.Jl .u bis community, he was a kaf!r, snd the regions. We have a f_ of Jb.em Mohd. Gon belonged to his eommu- already. I would sug,. tbat t~ nity and, therefore, he was a great must be some Central universities bl man. he is his hero and all that, Is the South a18o; there ahould 'be • be preaching the right thing? Is he Central university at Chandigarh also. creating integration in this country? In u-e universWeI, the medium Is he ci'eati.ng national unity in this should be Hindi and. EDI11sb toe &he country! . time bem, but In coune of time it 1973 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) 197.f [Shri Bal Raj Madhok] SURI BARROW: Mr. Deputy- may beCome Hindi alone. Such Cen- Speaker, 1 repeat what I said before tral universities and Central schools lunch, that I do not generally agree should be opened allover the coun- with ~ hon. friend, Prof. Madbok. try. but I do agree with his description or the Report, though I would not 9~ Secondly the Central Education the adlectives he has used, because Ministry m'ust concentrate on creating Dr. Triguna Sen, our photogenic Min- the right type of books and literature. ister has embellished and adorned the I know that more than FIB. 1 crore Report with photographs of himself: has been earmarked. for this, but his equally photogenk junior Min- nothing has been done so far. I isters and some of his Cabinet col- think that if they leave it to thl< leagues. But seriously I expected that salaried stan, nothing will come out the Report would mirror in rni~ !im. of it; they must set up some guilds the system of education throughout of scholars with payment on the basis the country. It is a dull, drab Re- of work done; thereby alone they <:cm port, if I may use Prof. Madhok's: produCe books and they can translate words of the proliferating structure- book$. We must have these books at of the Union Education Ministry, and;. the earliest so that we may be able as a visual aid-and as a teacher I am to give education through the regional all in favour of visual aids--at the langua,ges. (:nd of the report, in one of the ap- Thirdly, I would suggest that the pendices, we get a diagramtic repre- Education Minister must be given a sentation of the Ministry, a .art of a free hand, and he should have \.he biological Specimen of th(· octopoda courage to assert himself so that the family! Duroou<.:ratisation, fossilisation and proliferation of the Education Minis- try is stopped and it comes to do the job fQl' whic:h it is meant. I think this House and. tht: L(.untry SHRI MRROW (Nominated-Anglo- are rightly exercised about the im- Indians): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir. plementation of article 45 of t')(' Con- I dO not agree with my hon. friend stitution. I would be unfair to the Shri Bdl Raj Madhok ... Minister if I say that in hi. niOr-vrt he did not give some indication o~ MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. th.is. At the end of the Report, there' Member !tis may resume speech after are a few pages of histograms giving lunch. We shall meet after lunch at the enrolment at dUterent stages of 2.05 P.M. education. If you interpret the histo- IU5 .... grams, you have a very glowing pic- Classes J had Tlte' Lok Sabna ad;OUrn.ed for ture. Enrolment in to 5 risen from about twenty million in Lunch tin PiVf: Min.utes Pa&t Fourteen the early fifties to fifty million today; 01 the' Clock. enrolment in classes VI to VITI has increased almost threefold between 'J'JM Lok Sabha rf:aa.sembled a!t.. -r 1950 and now. But I want t-l survey l4Rcl& at five mtnuus past FouTten the whole picture of Primary educa- of "_Clock. tion. The term enrolment as is gene- [MIt.. :o..rrv-5PJL.ucD in the Chat,.] rally mis-understood does DOt mean /lttendance in classes. So, when we DEIIANDS FOR GRANTS, 1968-69- say that fifty million children are in cORtd. school or. '1$ per ceDt of the BChool' IIIlas'l1lV OF ~. JIOin' o l ~ of /l pe,rtieWar are· ~ enrolle;cl. it. doeI not inean that. w& DEPUTY -SPII:AKER: Shri they /lI'8 attend1ug the school What BarroW to continue his speech. are the other wetlknessea that this, 14. 1890 (SAKA) Edueati01\) 1975 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA I have done be- rapid expansion has revealed? About it I am permitte.:!, as history. Nebu- sixty per cent ot the children who lore,reler to a Bibli.t:al dream. Ire tMlheld join Class I never reached Class nr. chandnezz:ar had a head of l1nagc Their number is added to the growing a creat image. The tne the breast and ann. anny of illiterates. It is estimated was ot fine gold, thij{hs ot brass. that the number of illiterates between of sUver, the belly and and the feet ot clay. the ages of 15 and ~t an God. I the legs of iron system. 'nIe am outside that range- was 150 mil- This is our educational stage is of clay. lion in 1961-62 and will rise to 158 Primary school million in 1971, when also I will be Sen. in the word. of Poet .. outside that range! What is the type Dr. of instruction-I am not using the Shelley; word education-that is tiven. It may "look before and after be gauge.:! from this fact that in and pines for what i, not". 1965-66 out of two million teachers over six lakhs Were untrained. To haS' make matters worse, eighty per cent Dr. Sen, Sir, not the poet Shelley, should of the Primary sections m schools made the plea that education come under what is known as multiple become either the Central or Concur- making 1as~ teaching, that is, one teacher rent subje<.."t. I have been Mr. an le~ more than one class simul- this plea for many years but taneously. I do not think there 15 a Chagla when he was Education Min- single Training College in this cOlln- ister, although the same P8l1.y wa5 t:lI) try that eives any trainina in multi- in power in the States and at Iogree- ple class teaching. It is a technique Centre, was unable to get any which none of our Primary school tea- ment to this except trom the Punjab. chers are acquainted with. What is the But today I do not thing Dr. Sen will position of buildings? FiftY)Jer ~ent get anything from the J>unjllb or any of the schools at the Primary and of the States because of the politi.ca 1 Middl.. stages do not have buildinJ(s muddle in the country. I think, Dr, of their own and are housed jn total- Sen. will have to think anew; he will' ly unsuitable accommodation. What have to think afresh. He must try is the position With rej(ard to equip- and work within the framework ot ment? An appraisal in the middle the Constitution. Time is runniIlg of the Third Plan period showed that out against him. One year ~ al- sixty .per cent at the Primary, rruddle ready gone and the Education Min- and secondary schools er~ without ister has only four short ear~ lett. equipment and Technical institutions (Nandi- were short of 53 per cent at the equip- SHRI G. VISWANATHAN' ment what they require. The teacher wasa): Are you sure? ment that at the Secondary stage is For his first tenn hardly any better: there is a forty SHRI BARROW: would like him to go o ~ per cent shortage of trained Mathe- anyhow. I this countr" as hav- matics and Science teachers and there in the history of for Primary edu- is a 35 per cent shortage in tecl1llical ing done something cation. institutions. The number ot failures our High and Higher SecondarY in But when _ look at the Report. examinations is known to be about 50 cent. This is the position ot our we find what I may call a pro1if«.- School education. tion by Cell dtviAon of the 'Itinftboy I will not deal with University edu- of Edueation, into important and cation. but merely with schooledu- lootl ~ little sphere of acUvitlo:. I cation. In a demoeratic IOCIety prj.. ~ tbia the utblir' •• is vital. ~ wu ~ e u at.i friend of mine Who hap... Madhok referred tel our PrlmRI7 With _ education beinc bullt on sand. J wUl:, pens to be an educ.Mionist; pe'rtiaps•. J.977 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) [Shri Barrow] fessor Hiren Mukerjee looking at me. the Minister might call It plannll1.!:; lt reads: I would call it "paranoladal plan- nlng,"-the delusion of grandeur created by establishing more and Mark Hopkins sat on one end of more institutions which do the same 3 log work. And a fann boy sat on the other. My hon. friend, Professor Madhok, Mark Hopkins came as a oeda- referred to the creation of new of gogue institutions. I am referring to the · ('Teation of institutions which do tlle And taught as an elder brother. same work. I will give two examples: We have in Delhi an institution which I don't care what Mark Hopkins is known as the Asian Institute of taught- Educational Planning and Administra- tion run in co-operation with the It his Latin was small and his UNESCO, but, under NCERT, not Greek was naught- very far away, we have set up a sepa- rate Department of Educational Plan- ·rung. Both institutions are for Edu- For the farmers boy he taught, cational Planning. We have set up thought he Regional Colleges of Education. In Bhubaneswar we have a full-fledged All through lecture time and quiz, Department of Agriculture in our 'Regional College of Education and on · the door step there is a University "The kind of man I mean to be ,.of A,griculture. In the Bhubaneswar Is the kind of man, Mark Hopkins 'Regional College there were 3 stu- lsI dents at one time with not only a full fledged Agricultural Department, No printed page, no spoken plea, with many acres of land and muC'h equipment. If this is not "paranoiadal May teach young hearls what planning," I do not know what it is. MEN should be Not all the books On all the I think Dr. Sen during his tenure shelves · of office should concentrate. on the consolidation and expansion of Pri- But what the teachers are them- mary education. He must cOllcentrate selves, · on improving the oOOIldition of the teachers, on the quality of the teach- For education is: Making men. ers. We may do this by setting up the National Board for Primary Edu- cation, but he wiU have to do It In If Dr. Sen, during the next (our consvltation with the local Iluthctri- years, concentrates on these two R8- ties. I am certain, and it is not up pects, consolldatlon and expansion of to to tell him, how Important It me primary education, and on improving is to have good teachers, I would like to read to him what I generally read the lot of Teachers, I think he will to students in the Training Colleges go down in history es the first Edu- with which I am concerned. It Is a cation Kinister who has made real . description of a Vlllage School master, not Goldsmith's Vlllage School Master. contrlbution to the cause of educa- . I am saying this because I find Pro- tion of o~ countl')'. 1979 D.G. (Min. of CHAlTRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Education) But I do not want attempted formula. Dr. Sen's greatest contribu- through Centrally-sponsored schemes, tion when he took over was that he because sir, there is no involvement opposed the three-lan.gua.ge formu\.a. the J.oca1 commuriity and because m{!h He knows that it is not financially schemes distort local priorities. I feasible; he knows that it is edu.c:a- want that this should be taken up in tionally unsound. But we politicians consultation with the State Govern- think that not only do we have the ments so that they will have a sense right to make people literate but we of responsibility. Our Ccntrally- have a Divine Right, a Fundamental sponsored schemes are accepted by Right to make the people illiterate in the State Govenunents because money three languages! I think he must is poured in. It is the ~onstraint of convince his Cabinet coleaguesthat resources i.~ makes the State Gov- th" three-language formula is not ernments accept them. And what going to work. It is not going to happens after five years when the work because it is educationally un- Central aid is withdrawn they aban- sound and further the Centre does not don the Centrally-sponsored schemes. haVe the constitutional power to en- What happened to that very excellent force. Let us work functional -bi- scheme, the National Discipline lingualism and I think this will bring Scheme? It has disappeared. It came about unity and integrity In this as a Centrally-sponsored scheme. ~ountr . General Bhonsle of revered memory must be turning in his grove. The I have one thing more to say and Minister will tell me they are going it. is about sports. When I raised 'the incorporate it into the Nationul Ser- question of our Davis Cup Team vi.'cc Scheme. I want to say this 3bout playing against South Africa !all the National Service Scheme; I do not year, I raised it not because I am in know anybody in the Education Min- force it. Let us work functional bi- istry or any of the Ministers who are Africa; the apartheied policy ot South capable of drawing up suitable sports Africa is hateful. It you pronounce programmes; but Prof. Hiren Muker- the word Apartheid properly, it jee and my hon. friend, Shri Krishna means "segragate" and "hate", that should be asked to help in the pre- is what it means; it is a hateful paration of these programmes. word. But let there be some con- sistency in this matter. Let us not play tennis against a White team trom South Africa and when we have to compete against a mixed team trom South Africa say, "No". Let the Then I have to say that very clever- Education Ministry make it clear to ly and without imputing any motives every Sports Organisation in the the Centre has given up the school country that if South Africa is gOing feeding programme from the Cen- to "ompete against us then they must trally-sponsored scheme. I do not withdraw from such International know whether this is because of the Competitions. I want that made verr expenditure involved because the clear. Centre realises at the end ot the Fourth Plan there will be 8.3 crores As far as I am concerned, I would Qf children to be ted and this will prefer {(!Wer teams to go abroad. We cost the Central Government about laud our cricket team because they Rs. 2 crores annually worked out 011 beat New Zealand; We forget our the basis ot 12 paise per meal tor 200 pitiful showing against Australia. meals per pupil per year. Then we talk about coachlng campe. We are trying coaching men of :u and 25; it is a misnomer completely. HGtr I want to say one thing more. r can you coach a penIIOD who bu want to llpeak on the three-IangWige reached playing maturity. I would 130 (oai)LSD-8. 1981 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Edl£C4tion ) [Shri Barrow] request the Minister not to waste ~ ff I c:'f:;f;i it; ~~ l mt~ it; money on this. Finally, I would re- quest the Education Minister to have ~~~ it ~ t.~ ~ ~ ~ on every Sports Body that exists ill ~~ I ~~~ or.l! l t this country one of the representa- ~ fm.T ~ ~ .m: ~- . r rim it; ~ r.ro: 60 orr. ~ ir l ~~ ij; 1 ~ .~~i. t ~m~~1 ~ i lI>'T \ll ~ l ~ r( li ~ l ~. r l !~ ""flIT ~ I WT lim: rt~ ~~ ~ .ra l 1 ~ ~ ~ if; ~~ if 'l"T 1 ~~ o~ ifiT fulIirf"l;QTT if; ~rn Jr.. lim: iA' it; ~ If);;r;:n' ~ ~ lirt~i! ~ if; a-m ifiT fTqtw'iJ' ~ I ft m ~ I &';;:1 tf, ~ o;r,'1 'll5 ~1i ~ I f$:nTii?f m~ ~ if; ~~ r -i i! ifii1T _ It!. ;:IT...... f.','ii"r >:I !i ~i rr~t i ~1 ~ I ~ lur;;;rat if ~ .it i! iiT 'Fg(f ifi0'f ~ 'ift"{ ~ 1!A- foro; "3"ff if; ~ li ifif ~ri. ~1 r i st -;p.r if m 0 'J"I" (<<..rTIf f;rI;1T l ~ ) ~ ~R ~ i ~~ I R~ ir if; ~ i it crt H if; ~ r ( fifOj"T cit f'f;" "l'I'"!!"i'j" mQ'';, if ifiT$T !;fiff=r ~ ~ i;rf'f;;f ~ ~ aT ~ ~ '3I'l'RT ~ ~ ~ iFf[ ~ ~ l ~~~i ~ ~i i ! t mrt~~~ ~ [ssf; i"{B") IT1J J "Ji":ifi] 1J1Tf ~ flf; ~ ~ ~r it ~) R{QAi" ~ "I'm! ~ m qrif ,""",.l!i7: ~ qq;:n ffi' ~ I l ~ i'ffif 1 ;;fAll' 5 5 ~ ~r ~ fun I Nil: cf ~~ iI'f 'ti 'fm ~ qwo ~ o m-o ((-nrr ~ ~ f\;fit ~r.t 1ft ~~ ~r f.tillT ~ am- ~ "5 ~ ~ if ~ '4mf ~ ~ 'fm ~r Q1':ifT fun m ~ li l;t-;r qt 'l1: ftr:rT{T ;;mllT I l:'i fWrtirq'f if ~ 1 ;;rTl1l 5 ~~ ~ ~ """ ~ ~ ~ <'hrff'" ~ fcmr1ff ~~ t ~ riit m!f mvf ;;r'r ~l fit;m ~ if ~ ~ ;:iT Oft\' f.rIIT ~ lfif'ff.!; ~ 'l1: J;fitit mlf iro~~ rn I ~~~.oo i(~ ~ I 'q'qr ~ ~ ~ lJ..ftmri't W ~ ~ ~ ifiT lfiT f.t; ~r ..rr lIIiT ~li 'IIT'l"" opportunity. Those who have not ~ ~ maT ~ ~a fOfll'T, q ! li\"a &pOken will get an opportunity. That qr(a .n ~(r.rr~ I ~~ is what we are following: 6l~ nro~~~ I "'1') ~m ~ 'm"'lff (~) : ~ m ~~lt~~~~ I ~ ~ 'fiT lffi;r ~ ~ tfl.lT ~ s ~ !qlmlpm'IT I ~ it; ~ ;;rT fiti IP1 '1') ~ NJTl< ~ ~ I ~~~~~ ~~ i .t~ MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shastriji, ~ ~ fifi ~ ~ ~ fifi ~ MR. DEPUTY -SPEAKER: I have 15fT ~~ ~ ~ ~ m it 1WR'''nf set a limit and within that time-limit I shall see ... ~ 'liT 'lfTCf'IT 'liT ~ m ail' ~ ~ flRC ~ ,,!:l'J'T I ~ ~ ~ ~ f'" SHRI J. B. KRIPALANI: Then, he would be taking away those ~~ om: ~ fum en: ~ ~ ~ minutes which would be avaUablt: to ffi Gfg-a ~ 11R'f"nf ~ fmn en: ifT the Members. iI"r.f ~ I fwffi fim q-l{ 1 ~( rl 1I'flfHr"i ~ ~ J 6 ~ I ~ ~ 'J.u Q:R it oIT'if eN orif ~ 1 2 ~ rn .. t g lIT I ;(rIft lfhRT ~ oqf'!l'f; ~ mv'f; 10 crt ~ ~ iR if"" ~ ~r if,f ~r ~ ~ ~) ~1 ~ ~~ . ~r~ l i ~ it 1 4 "IN ~ 'fifrif q''ff ( ~ lI';f ~ ~ 'l'rofTZl' ~r if; lffi;lfl1 ~ fmn' ;{T 'tfiT ~ I ~l S r~ 1I'n:iI'r" r~m ~ m I ~ 'ifl[11T f'f; ~r lff'f'fTlf ~ ~ f'f'fiffi ~ ~ ~( l n fi11 wR wR S ~~r if ~ ~ ~ ft:rt( ~! ~ q'f!1 f>' ~rl rsr;f rn OfT SfWI' i~ I {IJ ~ ~ ~ Q:T or~ ~~ [ssri ~ l~ Wm' ~ if MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: W ~ have I would like the Ministry to talte a record here. Even if they send' the up this matter and see to it thatpeo- names of those who have already pIe wherever they are and to waich- spoken, we keep awake. But there ever area they belong, it they live in is an exception-Acharya Kripalani. a considerable size must have ade- SHRI J. B. KRIPALANI: r have quate facility to have primary edu- cation, and secondary education not spoken on any of these demands. through their own medium. I wislil MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No, no. the Minister would bear this in mind I am laying down a rule wIth an ex- and take up the necessary measures -ception. It is difficult for me to say to see that enough teachers are post- ·no' to you. e.:! there and enough schools are open- SHRI J. B. KRIPALANI: You ed for primary education for the give the impression that have benefit of the Tllmii children there. spoken. Probably in other areas Illso there may be similar cases, but I just quot- SHRI S. KANDAPPAN (Mettur): ed this as an example to show how The Ministry has produced a bulky this Ministry is functioning. report probn bly to hide the fuct that they have not much to do at the There seems to be a sort of pre- central level. occupation with the propagation of 15.13 hrs. Hindi then with the promotion of education as such IlS far as this Min- SHRr BAL RAJ MAuHoK in the Chair 1 istry is concerned. It iSI malady They have added a number of photos with almost all the Central Ministries. with the ,charming smiles of our min- that whatever function is entrusted isters probably to cover its empty to them, they are more keen to see verbosity and the drab reading of the that they promote the cause of Hindi, report. Even" cursory view of the whether it is relevant to their post report clearl \' shows that tilE}' have or not. After all, what ill the job of not er orm~ the work entrusted to the Ministry of Education as enjoin- this Ministry in a atisfactory manner. ed by the Constitution, earmarked al Take for instance the Centrally-ad- obligation and duty of the Ministry ministered areas. In such areas edu- at the Central level? Education is cation is the direct responsibility of just to impart knowledge towardi the Centre. LaM yedr they spent higher education and to mould the Rs. 31 lakhs in Andaman and Nicobar character and culture of our students, Islands and this year the estimate is of the younger generation. What Rs. 34 lakhs. In the South Andamans have the Government been doing all and particularly in Port Blair, the these 20 to 25 years, and what do capital of Andamans, the population they propose to do? Definitely the is predominantly Tamil-speaking but picture is very gloomy. What have their children are not provided edu- they been doing so far? I would like cational fadlities in their mother to charge this Ministry: they were tongue even at the primary level. more r.:oncerne.:! with Hindi Ulan with The Tamilians there have taken it the promotion of knowledge or in- upon themselves to run private struction. They may say they are schools in order to educate their chil- doiI\g it in the interests of integra- dren in their mother tongue. This tion of this country. I would rather Government claims that it champiolUl say that the question of integration the caUSe of linguistic minorities in should be left to the Home Ministry the various States. But under your and not to the Education Minlatry. very nose, in your own Administra- With regard to education, I may juat tion, you are not aUending to this attempt to give a "icture of the whole 'bui.c need of the children to have thing by takinIr the queation of the primary education in their mother medium of in&truction. The DePllO' qgue. Minister who preceded me sald ib.t ~oos D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) 2006 [Shri S. Kandappan] it is the declared policy of the Gov- Hindi student in Chemistry may have, ernment of India to see that all the for his higher studies. Is'it not fair, \ational languages in their respective is it not justifiable for US to demand egiollS become the medium of in- that they shOuld equally promote all truction in the respective universi- the languages and equip all the ian- ies and .colleges. But what axe they guages and make them fit enough 0 Joing? Did they help the universi- be the vehicle of modern thought? ties and colleges elsewhere, those But that is being utterly ignored. which are situated in the non-Hinai. region, to promote the medium of instrudion in their own languages? There is another very serious as- Certainly not. Even the IIgure that pect I would like to bring to the the Minister has given has clearly notice of the House. It is completely Mown the partial attitude of the forgotten or conveniently ignoreu. A Central Government in this regard. stage may come when all the langu- age are promoted in their respective regions, When they become the After all there are fiVe States in media of instruction for scientific India which are promoting the cause knowledge, what will happen? My at Hindi-Rajasthan, Uttar Pradpsh. university will be having Tamil. Other Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Haryana. universities will have their respective So, when there are so many States languages. Hindi regions will have to cater to the need of Hindi and Hindi. What is the link in between? when there is no State whats0 world today. Knowledge is univer- nister. There is a growing tendency. aal; it is not the monopoly ot any- dangerous and perniCious in mY body. So, we need to have certain view, that primary and secondary contacts with the developments in education should be brought under the modern world and there is al- the concurrent li&t under the Centre ready a language handy for us tor on the plea that the state do not that pUl'pOse. What is the urgency have enough finances. I put it this and necessity for us tl) throwaway way. After all, the Centre's finances that language and try to replace it do not come from Russia or meri a~ by something, which may not be po- it is from the States. They can very aible? well give a share of the lot to the People argue that we can create States and the States will manage. a glossary for all science subjects in I do not want this kind of thinking Hindi. Sir, I have been working in to pr.evail in this country that on a university and I know how difficult financial grounds, primary and secon- it is. I doubt very much whether it dary education should be handed would be possible. Attempts were over to the Centre. At present, pri- made by the GQvernment and they mary and secondary education are are haYing bulky glossaries with very well carried on by the States. them. But they are not being used Of course, they do have some diffi- in Tamilnad. Whether It is physics, culties and for that the centre should chemistry or any other subject, at giVe financial assistance. There ends the PUC level and at the B.Sc. level the matter, Even higher education in som ~ places we are using Tamil whiCh they have been entl'Usted with, itself. There are many scientific they are not able to manage well and words lhat have come into common they are not fair in their dealings. Ir usage ill Tamilnad which it would be they take primary and secondury impossihle to replace. For example, education also, it would not be accep- we say anu for atom, karp aram for table particularly to non-Hindi campher, uyirvayu for oxygen, k,a.n- states. dagam lor sulphur and so on. So, do not minimise the hurdles that are I agree that as one nation, in our there. syllabus and curriculum there c"uld MR. CHAIRMAN; They are all be some standardisation. I do not Sanskrit words. have any quarrel there. The Cent,'al Government has already started pre- SHRI S. KANDAPPAN: I do not paring syllabi for various subjects in concede they are SanskrIt words. If various strata of educatiOn and thcy all the terms in vague in Tamilnad are sending it to the State Govern- are accepted as common words I ments. With that I am sure the have no quarrel, but I am afraid it State can have their own programmell would not be possible. Even some of work in the schools. That .:an be professors who were associated with done at the primary ,secondary 01' the preparation of glossaries have at any level. With regard to science, laid that it is very dimc wt to evolve there is no problem. But with rc- common terms that would be a.ccept- gard to humanities, there are certalO .ble to us. The problem is not so problems. For example, take his- simple. If we do not take measures tory. It is very strange that tae Ln- from now on and evolve a compro- dian history 1 read is different from mise procedure for the luture, taking the Indian history which mY brethr [5hri S. Kandappan] 1 do not find anywhere in the north it; 'ifr ~ ~ ~ l ii ~ ~ ~~.~ this being much represented. But We do read of the Gupta Age and the m rnrit m ~ ~~ ~ 1 Maurya Age, the so-called Golden Cfil' 'iI"f.f ~~ it 'iI"f.f i ~ ifit Age. For example, 1 can tell you ~ ~ io ifit lfijt ~ ifi'{ 111'm" that this history is not the DMK ver- sion of the history. While the Maur- ~ ;Q'h: 'tfRI' 'fiT ;re;:;Q'h: ya Age nnd the Gupta age are being ~ 'fir fCfCI'R ~~r 'R m~~rrr~ ~~~ ~ t, ~ ~ III1f ~ ~ t ~ ~ fiI; m- ~ f.. ~ l 1 fir; ~ m m ri if; smr ~ i r~~ ~~l (~ em (1" m ~ ~ ~ or iii'( I ~ ~ !liT m SlfTif or Rm, ~ {<:: ~ ali if; ~ If>1 m ri 1li1" t t~~~ ~~m ~i ~~1 i or m-r iI't t~ ~ ~ <:rofi ~ I ~ mffl ri l!fr ~ m;J ;;1f mr, ~ qh: tre1 'tiT {T if; ~ ~ ali !fiT q'!\Ifif ~ qh: ~ rn ~ R~l l~ ~)~ ~ ~ ~ lilt l!fr ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~)1rr f.f; fum ...n i 1 o! 11~ 'q"q";f ,"if 'tiT 'ffi1'" 'tii, ~ ~ lr~ ;;nitIn", ~ rr~l ~ m, m, fWf qR ;;l';r 'iI'Tft" ~mitu~t . ~ lit m m ~ !fiT 'mR rn rr ~~ll t~ ~ ti)~ I m ~ IliT nr m ~ I lffif ~m ~~~ ti1 m t fwm-Sf1IlT ~ ~ I ~1 il ~ Dr. Triguna sen further said: i~~1 ~ m<: ~ "In Calcutta, the March 1967 examinations have not held l ~ ~ tl ~ ~r l ~r GI'f:rT ~ I been as yet. In Bihar and Uttar l'r8- ~i tN mm~ ~o ~ desh invigilation at examinations ;f ~ lfi't ~ !~ ~r lIfT, is becoming more and more .1ifti- cult and I haVe had reports of ~ ~ ~ 9 l ~ i !t i i~ several assaults on invigilators, ~ flr; ~~ m\'I" ~ it ~ If.<: ~ some ending in fatality." ~ ~ Gf" ~ l!~ mm ~ flF ~ ~ 9;l"T<:: S ~~ ~~ ~ He said that the incidence of stlldent i ~ I llfG ~ ~ ~ f'li i ~ unrest was on the increase and .0 also rn its component violence. He ulso ex- r~ 'it;:: ~i 'llTG"T 'f,T Sf'lr, m<:: pressed extreme concern over t.he STl'Tr, ~i a'i ~ 9 l ~ r r. ~ fro T'f"IT growing unemployment among the educated-an evil which had now ~i ~ ~m ~~r r I "r ron ;;rm affected the engineers also. He added that this was the time when we must l!gf ~ ~ fifo .{ ~ orr ~ ~ undertake and implement some vigo- t, ll'<:iT l ~ ~ '3if'fi"T <:i\'fi ~l l::lfT"I" rous programme of action to counter- act these evik ~~ ifT, l:fftro 'l'fTqr ~ 9;J"f!ff, i:r o;rl"l'f> ~ r ~ ~ sr"f'[, 9;J"T<:: srm, 'liT ~rlt ~i I This is only a small side of the pic- ture. Though the people in power SHRI C. JANARDHANAN (Tric- rpalise at least that the so-called vigo- hurl: Mr. Chairman, Sir, everybody rous programme is necessary, 1') ~ admits that our country is in the (l:rip tion is forthcoming yet. The fact Is of an economic and political crisis that no vigorous programme Ilf l~tio! 1 unprecedented since our Independe- is possible unless the Govemm!ilt hal . a clear perspective and the r~arliness nce. Naturally, this crisis atreets every sphere of life. But the crisis as to bring about a change in the ~o !:o- refiected in the field of ec!ucatioll is econO'l'l1ic relations that now ·xist in the worst of all. our country. At the first meeting of the Advisory Many speakers before ne hlve Committee of Vice-Chancellors cons- dealt with the problem of ,>rimal:' tituted by the University Grants CO:lI- education. It is a shame that. even mis3ion, the Education Minister, Dr. after 20 years of Independence, we Triguna Sen, himself hinted at this. have failed to fulfil the provisions In the Times of India of 7th , March and compulsory primary e u a~on it is reported. to all our children. Now the Govern- 'ment has laid down a certain prog- "The dominant theme in the ramme to fulfil this belated task be- education Minister's speech was before 1975-7. But what has happened unsatisflictory state of higher to our earlier programme? Sometime education in the oountry. In- our Ministers point an accusing finger deed, in many States, the educa- towards the States. I do not know tion System was hardly function- whether he i. of the opinion that. If ing and colleges and universities primary education Is made 1 Concu- remained closed tor a long .,criod. rrent or a Central subject the talk The situation had reached such a would be fulfilled easily. I think, It serious state that the system of is a wrong approach. The problem of examinations was breaking compulsory education is clOtlely link- down." ed up with our social and economic 2017 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) 2018 [ShI'i C. Janarclhanan] • kwatdness. Unless. the Govern- in one of the beat schools in Delhi. ment is prepared to tackle these pro- Sir, as I am coming from Kerala I blems along with education, the am interested in what it says. what ambitious programme of our enthu- does it say? It says: 'Kerala is all siastic Ministers will remain unful- length and no width'. Can you ima- filled. gine such a thing, Sir? Then it says, 'In few places it is more than 50 miles Then, what about the character of wide.' About its length it says, 'In the little education that our students length. however, it is more than a get? This was reported in the Times thousand miles'. We have to invade of India of 23rd March, as remarked Tamilnad or Mysore State to make it by the Education Minister in the In- that long! It is not more than 300 or formal Consultative Committeee of 400 miles long, Sir. Parliament: SHRI RAJARAM (Salem): Then there is no necessity for the Mahajan "This was a state subject and Commission. the States were free to handle it as they liked. Consequently. the textbooks varied widely from 15.51 hrs. State to S\.a'te with emphasis [MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair] being laid on different values. Quite often. the child had no idea SHRI C. JANARDHANAN: The of national values such as unity, earlier speaker from that side wanted secularism. Similarity a! culture religious instructions in our schools. and tolerance which were so im- As a sample of what sort of religious portant for nation integration .. :' instruction is imparted to OUr children in schools, I shaH quote from this He therefore. suggested that the book which is entitled 'Moral Science question of taking up this as a Con- Series', again a production of Mac- current or a Central subject should millans and it is taught in the ,arne be thought of. Anyway. I am glad model school. There is a chart about that our Minister realises the impor- God delegating His powers to others. tance of this issue. But I am afraid There are three branches. In one the situationis worse than what he Branch, God delegates His I' ,wers (J thinks. There is no definite direction parents, then parents delegatp their to our education. In certain textbooks powers to school Principals, School of primary schools they teach t!1C stu- Principals delegate powers to the dents some rot; sometimes it is con- teacher and the teacher delegates his trary t.o facts also. I can give you powers to the monitor and the monitor certain examples. The other day, the stands before the students as God. Blitz Weekly published an article Then take the second branch. Here, quoting certain passages [rom a God delegates powers to Government, Mysore textbook. The other day Government to the Ministers and the I think. it was on the last Friday- Ministers to high officials and the high this House was discussing how to C!'- officials to the Police and the POlice is adicate obscene literature or obscene the God before you. Under the third art from our cultural life. But obsce- branch. God delegates powers to the ne pictures are printed in the text- Scout Master, the Scout Master dele- books; 'Obscene articles and poems are gates powers to the Troop Leader and written, and these were taught in the Troop Leader aelegates power to Mysore schools. I will give you one or the Patrol Leader and the Patrol two examples. small things, which are Leader is the living God before you. contrary to facts. Sir, this is a book published by Macmillans, a firm of AN HON. MEMBER: What about international repute and this is taught thE' Chief Whip? 2 019 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Education) 2020 SHRI C. JANARDHANAN: Just I looked into sympathetically. The do not know. This is a sample Of the teachers in difficulties and there are moral instruction imparted in our three different units of Administra- schools. Sir, unless We do something tion under which the teachers are on the lines which Dr. Kothari. has pressed and they are now here to 10 recommended, the future of our educa- nOw. To bring the subject of Educa- tion is in trouble and the Govern- tion under one authority was the ment must give immediate considera- standing demand of the teachers of tion to improve the character and Delhi. It is under the COnllideration of content of the text books. this Government, I know, but will the SHRI RAJARAM: Dr. Sen was also Government take immediate stePs to on that Commission. implement it? That is what is neces- sary now. I request the Government SHRI C. JANARDHANAN: He to intervene immediately and· revise more or less agrees with me, 1 think. the circular of the Directorate and But he is not implementing the whole press the NDMC to behave properly. thing. That is my complaint. A contented teacher is indeed the Regarding the conditions of teachers. base of effective educational system. Sir, they are deplorable throughout If the hungry teachers are on war India. They 'are agitating for better path, they cannot teach the studenta pay, for better living conditions. Now, properly. You knOW that. Therefore in Bihar, two lakhs of teachers Rre on .l request the Government to consider strike for the last few days. The immediately the grant of uniform teachers are agitating all over India. pay-scales and uniform service condi- in V.P., even in my State Of Kerala tion throughout India. Otherwise our and virtually in all the States Sir, in whole educational system will go to the recent strike in Delhi which was rot. the biggest of them aI!, the Govern- While considering the problems of ment tried its best to suppress the our educational system, our attention movement. They arrested 107 teachers. is drawn to the question of unemploy- Five of them were handcuffed like ment among the educated, especially criminals. Sir, it is a shame for this those of the engineers. In some States Ministry. like Kerala, for instance, where some SHRI D. C. SHARMA (Gurdaspur): amount 01 progress has been made in Not by this Government. It was the education, the problem of un~m lo Jana Sangh Government. ment among the educated classes is SHRI C. JANARDHANAN: But very acute; and the number of unem- abetted by this Government. 77 ployed engineers is rising. There is teachers were suspended and 346 an increasing number of unempl- teachers were thrown out of service. oyed engineers and diploma-holder But the teachers faced all this terror now. The fi&Ure is going to be 'If the very boldly. But now that the move- order of 35,000. In Punjab it 2,000; in ment is withdrawn, it seems, the Mysore it is 3,000, in Kerala it is authorities are bent upon wreaking 3,000 engineers. There are about their vengeance on the teachers. The 18,000 ITI diploma-holders. Thill is recent cirCUlar issued by the Direc- because of the economic crisis which torate of Education is insulting. But this country is facing. Everybody the NDMC is going further. That knows, and the Minister has admltted. nominated body and its President are It is because of the economIc reces- not even prepared to implement the sion, it is because of the monopolistic instructions of the Directorate. What pressures of the masters from abroad. right has this organisation got, which That is why the so-caUed recession represents nobody in this country, to has come back and our engineers are refuse to implement it? I do not thrown out of employment and they know, it is beyond my comprehension. find no avenues far employment. We Now, the teachers have put forward have to consider all stePs for IndWl- certain demands which should be trialisation. Then only we can solve 2021 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) 2022 [Shr'i C. Janardhanan] edUcation so that literacy may spread. the problem of unemployed engineers In spite of the fact that a large num_ in this country. We must think about ber of schools had been opened during the system of education as solving the the last twenty years, the percentage economic problems of the country. of literacy is still at a very low level. Then only we can tackle this impor- I think the Ministry should pay proper tant problem of unemployed egineers attention to this matter. in this country. The system of education which we SHRI BIMALKANTI GHOSH (Se- are following at present will do no rampare): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, good to the country. Unless some I rise to support the Demands for fundamental changes are made in that Grants relating to the Ministry of system, there cannot be any real Education. While supporting the progress, Demands I would like to put a few Right from the primary level up to suggestions before the hon. Minister of the top, the medium of instruction Education for his consideration. The must be the mother-tongue. Greater Demands relating to the Ministry of stress should be laid on primary edu- Education should not be looked upon cation. No viJlage should remain as an item of expenditure. It should without a primary school and no school always be looked upon as an item of without a sufficient number of teachers. investment. The greatest need Of the country today is more production and, We should have more polytechnics therefore our education should be and technical schools sO that we can productidn-oriented. At the Bame time train more technicians and get em- we must remember that Education is ployment for them easily, We shOuld intended not only to make a man fit spend more money on technical and to earn his livelihood, but also to scientific education. We should have enable him to become a useful citizen more medical colleges. The standard and a man of character. Unless the of multipurpose schools and polytech- problem of Education is properly nics shOUld be improved. The stand- tackled, all our future plans will fail. ard of education at the higher secon- Education must also bring about dary level needs a great deal of national integration. A common pat- improvement. tern of edUICation for the whole of the The school fees and the cost of country is an urgent need of today. books are sO high that it is very diffi- Education is a State subject. Yet, I cult for a common man to educate his think that it is the moral responsibility children. Therefore, I think it should of the Centre to formulate and im- be the responsibility of Government to plement a national policy and pro- supply books free of cost to the poor gramme of education for the entire students. In this way, the creative country. talent of a poor student should be 16 hrs. encouraged by the Government. For the proper educational develop_ In the field of higher education also, ment and also in the interest of great expansio'n is needed. The most national integration, it is necessary important thing in hig-per education ~s that education should be made a con- the strengthening of the post-graduate cUlTent subject. The Directive of the departments. A strong post-graduate Constitution provides for free and department Is the best source from compulsory education for all children where we can recruit our future up to the age of 14 has not yet been teachers and scientists. implemented. The Centre must see that this constitutional requirement is The examination system in our country should be Immediately re- given effect to. formed. At present, it is nothing but The problem of education shOuld be a memory composition. No real merit taken up on a war footing, IUld more can be tested under the present system and more money should be spent on of examinatioIIII. D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Education) The students from the Scheduled accommodation. The lie of retirement Castes and Scheduled Tribes commu- for all categories of teachers Ihould nity should be Biven more facilities be raised to 65. .and scholarships. More money should SHRI D. C. SHARMA: 70. be provided for this purpose. Liberal grants should be given to colleges in SHRr BIMALKANTl GHOSH: All rural areas. More agricultural colleieB college teachers should have a uni- and universities should be established form pay scale. It should be Rs. 350- 950. The Education Ministry at the in rural areas. Centre should try to get it done More attention sholud be paid to the through State Governments. The Uni- development of the Sanskrit language. versity Grants Commission is now The study of Sanskrit should be made looking after higher education. I hope compulsory for arts students. and firmly believe that the Centre will The primary aim of education is set up two more Commissions, one character-building and physical deve- for looking after the secondary edu- lopment. Therefore. it is absolute1r cation and the other for looking after €ssential to provide sports grounds for the primary education. schools and colleges in urban areas. Adequate financial assistance should We have scientists of quality in this be given to the fI'··( grade private country, but unfortunately their talents colleges so that they can open post- are not being properly utilised. If OUI" graduate classes for the expansion of democracy is to survive, we must make higher education with the approval of necessary arrangements to impart the universities. T1,C T"rmhers of the good "duration to our childrcn. non-teaching staff of schools and col- leges have SO fal' been neglected . .I feel that if the problems of Proper steps should be immediately students are always considered with taken to improve their service cOndi- sympathy, there would be no student. tions. The UGC benefits should be unrest. In most of the cases, I think extended to the non-teaching stal'l mismanagement at the top has result- members in colleges. Adequate finan_ ed in indiscipline among the students. cial assistance should be given to State I think at present our teachers are Government, so that they can take not paid according to their merits or proper steps to improve the service even according to the cost of living conditions of members Of the non- index prevailing in the country. Their teaching staff in schools. conditions of service in most of the With these words, I support the States are really shocking. Therefore. Demands for Grants relating to the the condition of the teachers must be Ministry of Education. improved immediatelY by upgrading their salary ~ ales. Teachers' salary SHRI J. B. KRIPALANI (Guna): scales shOUld be revised in accordance You have made me wait so long that I with the rise in prices and . cost of have forgotten my ideas. Anyway, living. There should be a minimum since you have called me, I have to below which no teacher should De paid. say something. I will not talk of the In the case of primary teachers, their faults of commission and omission of minimum basic salary should be at the education departments at the Cen_ least Rs. 150. Dearness allowance for tre 'Or in the States. I would confine teachers should vary according to the myself to more fundamental questions. price index prevailing in the country. If these are properly tackled, there The scales of teachers in junior hil(h will be no difficulty; if we have not school, high school and higher secon- stupid people running the department, dary schools should also be suitably there will be no difficulty in solvln, revised and upgraded. The same lICale our educational problems. should be given to teachers with the There is no section of society which same qualifications in dil'lerent ~te o can do without education. Even a ries of hlgh schools. All categories of cutpurse, thief or robber haa to be teachers should be provided with free educated in hili profession. :Klas D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) 16.09 bra. form society in a particular way and he devislld a scheme of education for [8HRIMAn LAXSH .. IKANTHAMMA in the that wa), of life. He was of course Chair] thinking of only Hindu Society. After- SHRI S. K. TAPURlAH (Pali) : wards, when there was great politi- Ministers have no qualification or cal agitation in ,eonnection with the education. partition of Bengal and \.he national- SHRI J. B. KRlPALANI: All a ists proposed a system of national matter of fact. the education of the education. It was one vf the points individual begins from his childhood. on which the moderates and the ex- The 'mother sees to it that first tremists were divided in Surat. The he is fed and then he is edu- moderates wanted the ~ stem that cated. Sometimes both processes had been introduced by the British go together. Wlhat does the mother for the purpose which I have already do? What do the parent3 do? They indicated to continue as they consi- have to socialise the little animal. He dered it good. The extremists want- must fit into the society uf the family. ed a change in educational system be- Supposing it is a cultured family and cause they wanted a change in our the child because of his contact with society. Then came the Home Rule other children speaks bad language. movement of Besant which again immediately the parents will say that tackled this Question of national pdu- this is not done in our family or in tion. There was also the experiments our social set-up. Thus the physical of Rabindranath Tagore in San tim- maintenance of the body and educa- ketan. He believed that childrpn can tion go together. If we are starving grow best when they Jre brought up in our physical body. the nation is in freedom and in the joy of life. also starving in its education. How Afterwards came Gandhiji's move- did this come a bout? ment and that also producpd a sys- We must go to the very origin of tem of education in which I think all the present system of education. Why the trends that had gone before were was it introduced? Was it introduc- included. He not only changed the ed to socialise us in ~ur society to medium of instruction and the metho- make us gOOd members of our society dology but also the whvle system. or was it invented to wean us away Becaue he wanted to create a society from our society? This education was of his conception which must be free prim1rily meant to create a cheap from exploitation, social. ')olitical r.nd administrative agency for the East economic, India Company and then !.>r the Eng- Every reformer throughout the lish Government. But the English world, if he has desired to give a people are as hypocritical as ourselves turn to society has taken into hand and they would not do a profitable education. With Buddha we had a thing without giving altruistic rea- different .educational system than the sons. The altruistic reasons were Brahmain one. With Muhammad we given by Macaulay. He said: we had no! the educational system that want to produce in India an educated was confined to the Arabic tribes but class; we want to make Englishmen a new kind of system. With Chiristia- of them except in the colour of their nity the old system of education, the skin and the blood running in their Greek and the Roman. was dispens- vains. I am afraid that the colour ed with and a new system of educa- of the educated is changing a little, tion came into existence. So, no so- at least in Northern India... (Inter- ciety, if it wants to make anything of ruption.!.) Therefore, you will see itself can neglect educatiun. But the that reformer after reformer in question is. what society do we want modern times tackled the Question of to create here? It seems that we are education. In the beginning there in a confusion about it; thBt we are was the founder of the Arya Samaj; in some kind of vicious transitional Oayananda Saraswathi wanted to re- stage where we do not know where 2027 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Education) we shnd or what we want. It is true the society that is going to be produc- tnat from the housetops the Govern- ed here? Did they cater for an edu- ment that has been in power for the cation that would be useful in a de- last 20 years says that it wants to mocratic society, not to talk of social- establish a socialist society in India. ism? No such thing. A tinkering If it wants to establish a socialist here and a tinkering there, that is all. society in India, has it taken any steps No department of our life is so con- whatsoever to see that the edueation fused as education. that the young received is such that it would make for a socialistic system of society? If the education is class My friend gave certain examples of education, if the education is bour- textbooks. How can the textbooks geoise education, then you cannot out be imprOVed unless education has of that education produce socialism some aim and purpose in life? Why or a socialist pattern of society. It is are our engineers without l ~ Be- true that most of the education cauSe we give them e u~8tion which throughout the world given through is of the old type, which would only schools and colleges have been class enable them to be servers to the ad- education. But, if you want to have ministration ot some big-bellied a socialist society, you have to ire.~t moneyed hoss. They cannot stand on your education to the 50al that you their own legs. I have seen these have kept before yourself. It is coming out of the agricultural col- because of this that our education is le~es searching for jobs in the gov- suffering. And what dId we do? We ernment. as if in the compounds ot took up the old education. There was the Ministries. cultivation is going on! nothing of nationalism in our system. It is tht- system that is wrong. It is As soon as we came inlo power, we not that we do not need engineers. thought everything was changed as We require engi.neers, but we have by alia uddin's lamp. With freedom never taught them to .,tand 011 their we became rich and so we must have own legs. It is not that we do not big and huge factories; with freedom need scientific agriculture. But our our administrators whom Jnwaharlal agrkultural graduates do not go to the Nehru called often as wooden, with- villages. I am sure an educat.ed out initiative, who ~oul only carry graduate can make a couJ)le of hun- out orders, became pntriotic! Our dred rupees a month by having two education which we before Indepen- acres of land to cultivate. But we dence called foreign education, a vici- have never taught them to be self- ous education, an education that was reliant. We have taught them only done for a certain purpose that suit- to be Government servants, for which ed the British Government at once the old education was dE'siglled. We became a national education. All the have done nothing to make the peo- primary schools became the N aya ple stand on their own. They come Talim schools. All the universities to the government begging for jobs; became national universities. Every it they do not get jobs, they blame teacher was a nationalist. This is the government, the societl" and the great mistake that we have rione. everybody excepting the system of education that produced such drones who could do nothing. In America. Then, what have we done? We I was sitting at a table where tlI_ have appointed Commissions and were some 12 university teachers also Committees. We began to build from sitting. I said something thl1t was the top. First we had a commission not very complimentary to the Ame- for university education. Recently I ricans and I said, "You will please su ~ some eommittee was appoint- excuse me tor making this remark". ed to review the whole of education- They said, ''who is to excuse you?" the Kothari Commission. Did the One was a Jew, another a Canadian, Kothari Commission think in terms of the third an Englishman, the fourth D.G. (Min. of .APRIL 3, 1968 Education) [Shri J. B. Kripalani] a German and so on. There waa no- has no goal because we, as a nation, body who was really American. They have no goal yet towards which we get these technical peoplt! from all are working. We profess but we do corners of the world to enrich thei!" not have. education. There if '1 student passes his examination today, tomorrow Then, it is said that the universi- work is assigned to him on a salary ties should be autonomous. I have ·of about Rs. 1000 a mon\.h. seen these universities and I have seen their vice-chancellors. I am MR. CHAIRMAN: He s;10uld con- sorry to say that if there is to be real dude now. I have given him 5 autLllomy in education, our teachers .minutes more than the allotted time. wou':' .. :: ,'·e a mess of it. I have seen SHRI J. B. KRIPALANI: 1 have them tninking of nothing else but no objection to carry out your wishes. their promotions, their ambitions, as you are also a lady and I am gov- their own selves and not the students. ·erned at home and in the coumr\" by ladies. 1 have no desire to lis~be There is in our universities some- you but I must say that you must thing like meeting the students or, give me a few minutes more; that also what they call, tutorial classes, but if the audience is interested in what nowhere are there tutorial classes I am talking. where the teacher .comes in real con- tact with the students. Perhaps it is MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude good that the teacher does not come in two minutes. in contact with the students because his own conduct is such that it will SHRI J. B. KRIPALANI: So, un- spoil the conduct of the students! less we have a national aim, a natio- Under this system it is much better nal goal, be it may, we cannot that the professors do not ~ome in ire ~ our education in pruper contact with them because their own channels; we cannot devise a suit- intrigues would percolate among the able system of education for oursel- students. The politicians are always ves. a wretched lot; you cannot help them. They will always interfere. But thelr We have been talking of unrest interference can be avoided only if among the students. How can there the teachers are masters of the situa- be anything but unrest among the tion and they behave honestly. students when there is unrest in society? When there is conflict in society, when we are not able to live What is the meaning of a teacher? as one nation, how can the students? Now we are hearing about the emolu- I have been teacher for umpteen ments of the teacher. Right through years and I do not think any student the ages a teacher has lived in a ever thought of revolting against my hovel. But if he loves his work he authority. The students used to tell teaches from thoat hovel. I have seen me. "Sir, we do not know whether that there are institutions in Banaras you are the same man outsidE' the and ancient cities where our old class that you are in the class." In education is being taught. And the class absolute discipline, outside who are the teachers? The the class absolute friendship and teachers will be with one dhoti, not equality. I treated them as gentle- even an upper cloth, and that may be men and they treated me as ancient a dirty dhoti but they are teaching teachers used to be treated in ancient highest philosophy in the world. They times where it is said that the teacher are teaching the philosophy of the Is the god. So, the students' unrest Upanishads and the Gita. They are is due to the defectiveness in edu.ca- living in that atmosphere and they do ·tion that It bas no goal. Education not care for their earthly needs. What: 2031 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Education) 2032 they need is very little and that is directions. Therefore, think, if provided for by the students them- Acharya Kripalani's speech has any selves. The students themselves go meaning, the only thing that has to and beg and they work night and day be done by the Government of India because they have an objective be- and, I think, that is a national Gov- hind them. We may not apprer.iate ernment, it is this that education their objective. But they have an should become a Central subject. objective and for that objective, the People have been talking of a pri- teacher and the student kill them- mary education commiasion; people selves. The student would put his choti in a strong and see that he keeps have been speaking of a Second Edu- aW'ake in order to read what he has ('ation Commission; people have come to study. This is how real been urging the extending of education is given and received. the scope of the University Granta There can be no other kind of educa- Commission. It is like saying to a tion. man, you have Aspro in the morning, Vito B complex in the afternoon and I am sorry I have taken more time Multi-Vitamin in the evening. I than you ordered me to take. think, this will not work, The only SHRI D. C. SHARMA (Gurdaspur): thing that can work is this, The hon. Mr. Chairman. it is my first duty to Minister should come forward with congratulate Acharya Kripalani for the utmost vigour and say, "r cannot the most excelIennt speech that ~ .change the map of education in India; has delivered in this House. I hope I cannot set in motion any reforms in not only the Members of this the field of education; I cannot han- House but all the citizens of India dle this multi-farioUs thing. I can will take note of what he has said. do this only if I am made the sole My second duty is to thank Mr. master of the house of education whe- Shashibhushan Bajpayee for going to ther in the Adamans to which some- jail in the cause of the teachers of body referred. or in Kerala or in India. The teachers of Delhi are not HAryana or in Punjab." The house the teachers of Delhi but they are of education should be one; it should the teachers of India. I must say be a joint family house and not a that he did something which is envia- hOll,e which is dividerl against itself. ble and Which should have been done Thet is the only thing that can do by some more Members of this House. ,omething; otherwise, this education is like a hydro-headed monster. Dr. When I think of the Education Min- Radhakrishnan cut of! one head and istry and when I think of the Educ- 12 more heads sprang up; Dr. Laksh- ation Minister, I have no end of sym- manal!Wami Mudaliar cut ot another pathy for it and for him. The Educa- head and 12 head. sprang up at an- tion Minister has got a sir-k, anaemic other place. The Kothari Commls- and bloodless child to hold and though ,ion .could not cut of! any head, but the Education Minister has broad it is something, and you ell know the shoulders and has sound common- result. Therefore, if' you want to res- sense and has some kind of practical tore order in this jungle of education, skill. I think, he cannot set the house which is characteristic of India, yeu of education in order, The reason Is must have Education as a Central this that education has been compart- subject all along the line. mental divided into many mansions, sub-divided into many many houses, Somebody was talking about Jamls and the result is that the education Millie and AJigarh University. s0me- has lost any kind of central unity, any body was talking about Nehru Mseum, kind of unifying aim, any kind of somebody was talking about Lal centripetal direction, Bahadur Shastri road or Lal Bahadur Shastri statue. It has been said by Eclu.cation Is being dift'used and Is thl! thinkers on education all over the being thrown aibout In all kinds of world that the greatest educator in .1.033 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) [Shri D. C. Sharma] this world has been Plato, and all My third poi»-I do not want the books on education that have touch any other point, but I want to been written ,by the others have been touch this point-is this. Education only footnotes to Plato's. What did has been treated in this country in a. Plato say? Plato said that the whole stepmotherly way. I think Madras community educates. Nehru Museum has been good in the field of educa- educates much more than anything tion, Kerala has been good in educa- else; the Aligarh University educates tion an..:! some of the States have been us; all the factor that are to be found generous to education or at least they u: the society, to borrow the expres- have made a splendid gift to educa- Slon of my learned senior Acharya tion. But what percentage of our Kripalani, educate us. ' Therefore gross national product is spent on these small, petty things about t i~ education? What you spend on edu- thing or tlhat thing must go. But cation, Madam, is not a dole given they shall not go as long as we do to education. It is not something like not have a Central system of educa- charity given to a Brallmin or poor tion. people, as you have get enough. It is not something which is given away for nothing. Education is something which bring:; a return. Education, as If we have that, then, I think, the people say, is the best kind of train- teachers will heave a sigh of relief. ing. Therefore, I would suggest. After all, education is a question of Madam, that 10 per cent of the Fourth system and I ..:10 not think that we do Five Year Plan should be spent on not have a system. We have a sys- education and 20 per cent of the tem of primary education of secon- Budget of each State shoul..:! be spent dary education, of uni er~it educa- on education. If there are some States tion, of post-gradute education of which are spending more, I do not professional education and of all hlnds want them to curtail that. but this of education. I do not think that we must be t" should tinker with any system that doD& • we have got. But I want that the teachers should be made the focus of that system. When I think of the Then. Madam, one thing more and teachers, I do not think of the teach- I have finished and it is this. I think the hon. Minister will take note of ers of the Central universities; I do these things which had been said welcome them; let them get what- here. But I want to say one thing. It ever they like; but I think of the you £annot ta~e our education much primary school teachers who go bare- footed, ,bare-headed and sometimes forward, I would like you to take our education at least one lltep forward. without the necessary clothes in Have one Central University in every winter. I want that they should be State of India, whether it is north, given their due. The primary school south, east or west. teachers are the basis of the pyramid of education, and after them, come the secondary school teachers then I would also suggest, Madam, that come the college teachers, t e~ come we should have a model Central the university teachers, then come Secondary School in every town of the post-graduate teachers and so on. India and that should be done by the All of them should have their due. Union Education Ministry. I would But. I think, our reform should begin, also suggest that a classless, casteless so. far as this is concerned, at the primary school shOUld be established pnmary school stage. Unless we in every District town of India to make the prilIl8l7 school teacher the begin with, if they cannot have it all master of his own destiny, I think, over the place. Unless this is done, things will not impro'\l'e. I think t i~ jungle of education will 2 0 35 Incidents reo CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) D.G. (Min. of Harijans (St.) , Education) or be a wilderness and. this wilderness I had made a statement in this House will become a desert but I want on 28th March, 1968, regarding cer- the desert to eloom. I want the tain incidents involving Harijans in jungle to become a garden and the Mehboobnagar and Krishna Districta wilderness to become a paradise and of Andhra Pradesh. I have received that can become only if we do that. information from the Government of Andhra Pradesh regarding the alleged One sentence more and I have fin- incident in Mehboobnagar District. ished. I will say that it is the three- The Kannada Daily 'Praia Prabha' language formula that can build up published from Bangalore had carried the real citizens of India. I think it a news-item regarding an alleged in- was Mr. N. C. Chatterji who said, we cident involving parading of Harijan talk about deficit financing, but, Sir, ladies naked in Mehboobnagar Dis- we are deficit in nationalism, we are trict of Andhra Pradesh. The State deficit in patriotism, we ace ": ,!icit in Government have reported that they Indianness and we are deficit in all made intensive inquiries in MehiJoob- kinds of national emotions. It there nagar District and found that there is one thing whir-h can unite the was no such incident in any villa&e country, it is this three-language for- in that District. The State Govern- mula. We should have three langu- ment have issued a Press statement ages. we should study two Indian on March 31, 1968, denying the OOCW'- languages and one foreign language renee of this incident. which will link us all tOl:ether. When we look at the Education The Government of Uttar Pradesh Minister, I have lot of sympathy have reported that on 29th March, for him. He has been given a task 1968. a rpport was lodeed at Police which is very very onerous, which Station Ghatampur in KanpW' Dis- is very very heavy and which is very trict by Shri Devi Din that Lal Singh ver), burdensome. But, since he had of his village had thrown his nephew aged seven years and daul[hter aged nc·1hing else to do and since he can three years into his well and dial>- dedicate himself to the cause of edu- peared. The two children on bem, cati".!. I have no doubt that this de- dkated son of India will bring about taken out of the well were fowld dead. A case under Section 302 a far-reaching revolution in India. IPC was registered and the Station Officer We do not want tinkering with edu- rushed to the scene. The culprit cation. We want a social, and econo- was prompUy arrested and lodged in jail. mic and politica] and a patriotic re- Aeharge-sheet is being sent to the volution as far as India is concerned. Court. India wants producers and builders. 16.44 hrs. DElMANDS FOR GRANTS. 1968-69- contd. [MR. DF.PUTY-SPEAKER in the Chair] MINISTRY OF EDUCATION-Contd. India wants a citizen of all-India dimensions. India' wants patriots of 16 .•6 hn. the highest magnit ude and I think, Sir. our hon. Minister will be able SHRI SAMAR GUHA (Contai): Mr. to bring all this about. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, instead of givin, us further pleasure to see the well- known taces of our Ministers in print- 16.45 hrs. ed form, we would have been happy STATEMENT RE INCIDENTS if the pictures of our National Pro- RELATING To' HARIJANS fessors, scholars, teachers Sahityakars, Kalakars and silpis, those who have THE MINISTER OF HOME AF- got mtional awards are liven in th.i.s FAIRS (SHRI Y. B. CHAVAN): Sir. report. And I hope, Sir, next year the [Shri Samar Guha] pictures Of those who will be given I should say, in preaching peace and National Awards will be printed in non-violence. Therefore, 'it Is the this Report. Sir, most of our collea- duty . of the Central Ministry to pay gues here have placed emphasis on the homage to the Father of the nati?n necessity of giving topmost priority to by having a Central university like primary education. I also want to Gandhi Bharati. stress on that point for the reason th"J.t the super-structure of our higher edu- In this connection, I would also like cati"On as also the democratic policy to draw the attention of the h·on. in our country lies on the lease of th'1S Minister to the Jadavpur Un'iversity. Primary Education. The socia-econo- Acharya J. B. Kripalani just a few mic development in our nation cannot minutes back s'aid that national edu- be given a solid plank unless the base, cation was the main thing which was the found'ation, of primary education given much importance. is made strong. I W"Ould urge upon the Minister that the Commission, in After the anti Partition moveme:1t which he has served as one of the of 1905, Jt was the Jadavpur Univer- Members which recommended that a sity which has made a very signifiC'3nt National Board of Education should be contribution towards growth of natio- established to look after primary edu- nal education. In the beginning it was cation. He should insist that primary just a college. It was a college found- education be made a concurrent sub- ed by greatmen like Shri Aurobindo; ject of the State and the Centre and he was the dlrst principal of th-at col- alS'O top-most priority be given to pr'i- lege. Almost all the great sons of mary education. With all the empba- Bengal and many great sons of IndIa sis at my command I should S':ay that and many great makers of the nation topmost priority should be given to were in many ways associated with primary education so that the founda- the Jadavpur University. Everybody tion of our eaucation as also the demo- knows that our present Minister of cratic polity may be laid on the rock- Education, who was the vice-chancel- b'ottom of an infallible future. lor of the J'adavpur University did a lot to make that .college a university, I want to draw the attention of the I would request that this J ad'3vpur han. Minister to another important as- Un'iversity, which is some sort of tem- peet. This is the Gandhi Centenary ple of the heritage of the national Year. l find in this report that, as a education movement in India, should National Tribute to Pandit Nehru, a be given the status of a Central uni- National University in the name of versity. Pandit Nehru is g"Oing to be establish- ed in Delhi and also the Education I W"Ould also like to draw your atten- Ministry has made arrangements for tion to the list of our nation:ll profes- Nehru Award for International under- 5'ors. ~ do not know how the atten- standing. What b-affles me is this that tion of the hon. Minister has been mis- I find that Nehru coins have been cir- sed at least in regard to two illustrous culated, but not Gandhi coins. This is names. First, I would mention the the Gandhi Centenary Year, and I name of Dr. R. C. Majumdar, the most would plead for the establishment of a eminent historian in India today; he Central University of Gandhi Bharati, is now 80 years old and he is the to preach Gandhian philosophy of most eminent historian living in India non-violence, Ahimsa «nd peace. I today. But he has not been included should say that they should think over in the list of national pr.fessors. I the matter. Although I am not a would also like to mention the name Gandhian myself, yet I feel that 'of another savant and Sanskrit scho- everybody will agree that Gandhiji lar in Banaras, that is of Pandit Gopi- was unIque by himself, after Buddha, nath Kaviraj. I do not know why his 2039 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Education) name also has not been included in for the students. This kind of exami- the list of national professors. God nation should be dispensed with. At kn'Ows; Dr. Majumdar may pass away least 50 per cent marks should be limy day, but it is our duty to honour allotted for the tutorial type of exa- him, and it is a national duty cast up- mination, periodical type of examin3- on us. I know the reason why for so tion, and for practical type of exami- many years he was not given that nation and alS'O for objective type of honour. I think that political paro- examination. If this reoriented type chialism should not be given ~ m pre- Of examination is introduced, then the ference to hon'Ouring a real great students will h'llve to remain watchful scholar. every week and every month because they have to appear for the examina- SHRI BAL RAJ MADHOK: He is t'ion in the process of their educational' not a Nehrtiite. development instead of just gearing up their engine to pick up studies just SHRI SAMAR GUHA: Now, a fortnight or a month of the exami- would like to refer to the problems n'ation. of student indiscipline also. Nowa- days students are blamed very much If we really want to improve the as if they have suddenly become erra- discipline among the students, then tic. As one who h'as been in the stu- sports, games and other cultural acti- dent movement in younger days and vities should be given ample scope in' also as one wh'O has been and who still the students' educational curriculum. is in the tea.ching profession I would In Calcutta and in other big cities we submit that students should not be find th'at after coming out from the' blamed every thing. If the students schools and colleges, the students just do not have the splrit of revolt in spend their time on the pavements of' them, then they are no students at all. the streets because they have n'O place, As many great men have said, the stu- no libraries, no sports grounds, no dents represent the idealist section games fields etc. to go to. So, if we and the most vibrant section of any want to effectively deal with student nation. lndiscipline, then we have to provide' ample scope and opportunity for· I would also submit that student in- sports, games, literary and other acti- discipline is not due to mainly politi- vities. cal interference. It is my' personal eX- perience from my student days that There is another aspect to which J only a very sm3I1 percentage of the should like to draw attention of the students are activated or inspired by Education Minister. Although I would outside politics. But it is the defec- criticise the Minister in many other tive educational system, the present respects, J will pay my tribute to bim' teaching system, and the present exa- in one respect. He was one of the' mination system etc. which were Irulin- ideal teachers in Jadavpur University, ly responsible for the student indiscip- 'lind he was an ideal Vice-Chancellor line today. I would urge the Educa- too. In 1966 when for three months tion Minister to make 'lI thorough in Calcutta, no school or college of· change in the system of teaching. I University could be run, JadavJlur would request him to introduce the University was closed only for three tutorial type of teaching, seminar type or four days and for the rest of the of teaching and objective type of tea- period it went on regularly as usual. ching rather tban the giving of a few I want him to introdoce h1s own ex- lectures in the colleges and schOOls perience, by innovating '3 scheme of 'lind then the lecturers or teachers tp- having '3 Students' Court of Honour ing for their private tuitions. and a Tilachers' Court of Justice. Let the students be entrusted with the The present system of examlDation responsibility of maintaining their dll- is nothing but some sort 'Of a lottery cipline in the University. If there be: D,G, (Min, of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) [Shri Samar Guha] .any act of indiscipline or indignity 'in the India in greater cultural perspec- the dass, let the students court of tive, honour, which will be an elected body, first try the case and judge it. If they There may be political conflict bet- :fail, they will pass it over to the tea- ween India and some of these coun- chers' court Of justice, If there also tries, But there is a deeper feeling they fail, then let both these courts sit of unity and simile, there is a deeper together and dec'ide the matter there. current of inner understanding, there l! I had time, I could elaborate this is a deeper bond betwen Ind'ia and idea, But the main point is that the these countries which is so in~ nse but students should be given the responsi- which we h'ave not taken advantage of bility to inculcate a sense of honOur to foster closer relations with them. and dignity 'and discipline 'in them, to In Ind'Onesia, more than a crore of devise ways and means so that they people- are adherents of Hindu-Buddh- can have their own discipline from ·their side and maintain the dignity of ist culture still. In Bali, we have one .the 'institution. of the finest of cultures based on Indian values and outlook Of life. Some Vedanta Professors 'are there to There is a chapter in the Report teach students. I would suggest that . dealing with cultural rel-ations with the Education Ministry should take up foreign countries, Last year there had this matter and constitute a South been cultural agreements/exchange East Asian Cultural Institute for India programmes, Seven such programmes 8'0 that culturel exchange and mutual h-ave 'been mentioned, It is gratifying understanding, inviting scholars from :that the curtains of the communist there to our country and sending scho- ·,countries have been opened for influx lars fTom our country to their coun- . but out of the seven, six are cultural tries, could be fostered and developed ,.exchanges with the Eastern and East so that we can ag,ain identify and de- European communist countries. It is monstrate the oneness of our st>ul, the -quite welcome, Indian light should oneness of our aspirations, the oneness "penetrate into those communist coun- of our philosophy with our brethren tries. But I would also say that there in that Greater spiritual India in are other countries with whom we South East Asian region. have to develop culturoal contacts. 17 hrs, I want to mention particularly one ''It m. ~~ ~ (9 ~) : r,roup of countries, which is really a bigger India in the cultural and spi- ~ ll1 ~ fueTr ~ iil9ef ~ ~ ritual sense, a bigger India in the ins- ~ ~ ;r1fuot; ~ ~ I ~ 'i': ~ pirational ide'as lying to 'Our east. It ~ ~ ft;rit efT iil9ef ~ ~ is Indo-Asia, It was previously Indo- * T ~ m except about the geophysical and geo- political features in very other ways ~~~~ it is akin to ours, It is a region ~ ~ ~ ~ covering Malaya, Ind'Onesia, Thailand, 1:fllG fuefr ID'f Laos, Khemar, South Vietnam and so ~ fcmr ~ :;fT 1V!t:lf "'f :;f! ~-~ ~ if ~i \'I1'If. ott 1~ ~ 'til ! ~ W ~ fit; ~ IfiT f'Ff m;g ~ f1t;1rr 'IT I ~ ~ it ~ l'f"IlT. ~ ;tT ~ WI";;rrlf1ft I lI"i!T lfiro'r ;it mrr 'If\' ~ ~ i:t I fm:rr IfiT t fit; ~ ~ ~ 1f ~ . ) lrrm it ~ it tN ~ ~ 'fiT '3""Hfd" ~i If\ff ~ ~~ it If-" ~m r ~ $ ~ ~ ~ 1f!:C ~ fmn ID(f '1ft mr ~ r...m w:fi'fT Plmr it ~ ~ sr~ l Ri ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ IIQ'lT (o.i'i fl!T1f ~ l n~ 1!iW ~m ~ : ~~i ~~ ~ r lr ~ t~ ri ~! I 1f;T ~ ~ tflIT I ~ rr if; iifT"!{ \I.-+lIMC4 SS t ) ~ (itn;): ~~ iliifolT ~ ~ flI; qttf m 'lit ~ ~ f 1 ~ I!.t 1I'T ift.:R m-r ;;n1f I ~ iff Ni<: ""A'ill'f fir.lIT ~ f'li 't'fi" 'ft l'fT'l il'Pn' ~ [MIl. SPEAItER ill the Chair] ~l t ~ r.<'rn 'l;l'R d 1 1 ~ m t ~ r l1:AT '"I1fVt I ~ ~ it. ?m ~ ~i 'l;l'T'T Wrlr ! ~ I !~ iii1ft' 11'1 IfT'I'iT !IIh: ~ n it tfq« '0:1'<: orril'ii' I 'l;l'1f1: ~ flfl'fffi ~ I lfl!i' 1 ~ 'lht 11'[ m ~it 'l;l'T'T ;;riJ: 'fi"'t crt Ni<: ~ 1 rt IFf3T ~ tt~m iii full ;r(\' .r ~ t I ~ 'fi?: ~ nitrrr ... ( ~) ... ~ t~tl! '!if ~ ~~ rt q 'W t m~ ~ ~ l 'lit ~ ~ I ~r 0 ~ ~~~ m 1~tt~m..rr ;;rlff.t it tr~ ~1!m il; ~ ifiI1ir ~l ~... 'Ii) ~ii (If! W'fif,t iur 1 ~ 'l;1I'f;;rrm Ifr i)rfll;'f ~ ~ ~ ... ~ ~ ~ rrr I ~ lfRf flt;if ~ ';jT1J ~ ... ;;rr l ~ ~ I ;;rt ililartT iliift'rrr;r IAT lIT ;;rl 11 ~ l1;'f 0 q"Fi 0 ~ m tt~~~ml t~~m..~ certain incidents that had occurred in some parts Of the country against the .~ ~ ~ 1 ~ m ~ ~ ~r Harij'3.na. I suggest that that debate .~t! -rm 1 (9 i fifm ~ may be held from 5 to 7 if the House ~~.. m~~~ ~ agrees. Because the decision wal taken by the BAC under your cha'r- ~~ ! 1i~~ i ~m i ~ manship, I am placing it before the m l l ~~~r~~~ House. ~ fl!; ~~ ~ t!;'!m it ~ wf.t MR. SPEAKER: The point is, the other doay. we took a decision that the ~ r if ~ R>.IT i m discussion should be from 6-30 to 8.30 ~ Ilifn 'l'!T !~ ~ t g >r. q(T \{lfi \P.M. The President is going to pre- side over the meeting on the occasion ~ 'f.f; l i~ 9;{'F!T fl!frT 11~ lfi( 11fT i of the Maritime Day in the Central Han at 7.15 P.M. They expected that ~~ ~ ~rilRl ( The question is: [Failure to improve th.e lot of ,II.. teach.ers in the countrtl]." "That the Demand under the Let the Lobby be cleared. Head 'Education' be reduceQ by Rs. 100". The Lok Sallha divided. Division No. 13] AYES [lU9 hu. Badrudduja, Shri Mukerjee, Shri H. N. Basu, Shri Jyotirmoy Naik, Shri G. C. Bhagaban Das, Shri Naik, Shri R. V. Deo, Shri P. K. Nair, Shri Vasudevan Digvijai Nath,Silri Nayar, Shrimati Shakunt.1. Fernandes, Shri George Patel, Shri Manubhai Guha, Shri Samar Patil, Shri N. R. Janardhanan, Shri C. Puri, Dr. Surya Prakash :iCalita, Shri Dhireswar Rajaram. Shri Kameshwar Singh. Shri Ram GopaI, Shri JC:andappan, Shri S. Ramani, Shri K. ](han, Shri H. Ajmal Ranga, Shri ](han, Shri Ghayoor Ali Samanta, Shri S. C. Kiruttinan, Shri Satya Narain Singh, Shri I:rishnamoorthi, Shri V. Sen, Dr. Ranen Kunte, Shri DaUatraya Sharma, Shri Beni Shanker I:ushwah, Shri Y. S. Sharma, Shri N. S. Lakkappa, Shri K. Sha&tri, 8hri Ramavatar J.llldhok, Shri Ba1 Raj Sondhi, Shri M. L. J.lajhi, Shri M. SubraveIu, 8hri Mangalathumauom, Shri Tyagi, Shri O. P. lLasani, Shri M. R. Viswambharan, Shri P. liIenon, Shri Vishwanatha Viswanatham, Shrl Tennetl },(ody, Shri Piloo Viswanathan, Shri G. NOES Ahirwar, Shri Nathu Ram Chandrika Prasad, Shri Azad, Shri Bhagwat Jha Chaturvedi, Shri R. L. l5abunath Singh, Shrl Chavan, Shri Y. B. Bajpai, Shri Shashibhushan Choudhury, Shri J. K. Barua, Shri Bedabrata Dalblr Singh, Shrl Bha,at, Shri B. R. Das, Shri N. T. Bhakt Darshan. Shri Dasappa, Shri Tul.idu Bhanu Prakash· Sin,h, Shrt Dass, Shri C. l5hattacJ1aryya, Shri C. K. Deshmukh, Shri K. G. Bohra, Shri Onkar1a1 Deshmukh, Shri Shiv.jlrao S. Chanda, SbrI Anil X. DIxIt, Shri G. C. Cllaacla, Sbrimatl J701a. Ganclhf, ShrImatf Indlr. :206,.... D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Education) 2066 Ganesh, Shri K. R. Raghu Ramaiah, Shri Gavit, Shri Tukaram Rajasekharan, Shri Ghosh, Shri Bimalkantl Raju, Shrl D. B. Ghosh, Shri Parimal Ram Subhag Singh, Dr. Gupta, Shri Lakhan Lal Ram Swarup, Shri Gupta, Shri Ram Kishan Rana, Shri M. B. Himatsingka, Shrl Rao, Dr. V. K. R. V. Jadhav, Shri Tulshidas Reddi, Shri G. S. Jadhav, Shri V. N. Reddy, Shri Ganga. Jagjiwan Ram, Shrl R~ Shri P. Antony Jamir, Shri S. C. Rohatgi, Shrimati Sushila Karan Singh, Dr. Roy, Shrimati Uma Katham, Shri B. N. Saha, Dr. S. K. Khan, Shri M. A. Sambasivam, Shrl Kripalani, Shrimati Sucheta Sanji Rupji, Shri Krishnan, Shri G. Y. Sankata Prasad, Dr. Kureel, Shri B. N. Sant Bux Singh, Shri Kushok Bakula, Shri Sapre, Shrimati Tara Lakshmikantharnma, Shrimati Sarma, Shri A. '1'. Lalit Sen, Shri Sen, Shri A. K. Laskar, Shri N. R. Sen, Shri Dwaipayan Mahadeva Prasad, Dr. Sen, Shri P. G. Mahajan, Shri Vikram Chand Sethi, Shri P. C. Maharaj Singh, Shr! Shankaranand, Shri B. Mahida, Shri Narendra Singh Shastri, Shri Ramanand Malhotra, Shri Inder J. Sheo Narain, Shri Malimariyappa, Shri Shinkre, Shri Mandai, Shri Yamuna Prasad Shiv Chandika Prasad, Shri Marandi, Shri Shukla, Shri S. N. :Mehta, Shri P. M. Shukla, Shri Vidya Charan Mishra, Shri G. S. Siddayya, Shrl Mandai, Shri Jugal Siddhe6hwar Prasad, Shri Mrityunjay Prasad, Shri Singh, Shri D. N. :Mukerjee, Shrimati Sharda Sinha, Shri Mudrika Naidu, Shri Chengalraya Snatak, Shri Nar Deo Pandit, Shrimati Vijaya Lakshml Supakar, Shri Sradhakar Panigrahi, Shri Chintamani Surendra Pal Singh, Shn Parmar, Shri Bhaljibhai Tiwary, 8hri D. N. Parthasarathy, Shri Tula Ram, Shri Patll, Shri Deorao Uikey, Shri M. G. PaW, Rhri S. B. Vyas, Shrl Ramesh ·CllaAdra· PramanJk, Shr1 J. N. Yadav, Shri ChaDdra Jeee D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14. 1890 (SAKA) Education) MR. SPEAKER: The result· of the which· ~ come in course of Division is: payment during the year ending the 31st day of March. 1969. in Ayes 48' respect of ·Archaeology·... Noes 108.. The motiOn was negatived. DEMAND No. 10-SURVEY OF INDIA. MR. SPEAKER: The question Is: '"!'hat the respective sums not "That a sum not exceeding exceeding the amounts shown In Rs. 4.48.73.000 be granted to the the fourth column of the order President to complete the sum paper be granted to the President necessary to defray the charges to complete the sums necessary to which will come in course of defray the charges that will come payment durm, the 7ellr ending in course Of. payment during the the 31st day of March. 1969. in year ending 31st March. 1969 in respect of 'Survey of India·... respect of the heads of demands entered in the second column DEMAND No. ll-GRANTS TO COUNCIL- thereof against Demands Nos. 7 OF ScIENTIFIC AND INDUSTRIAL RESEARCH to 12 and 105 relating to the Min- istry of Education". "That a sum not t!xccedinl The motion was adopted. Rs. 15.92.09.000 be granted to the President to complete the sum [The Motions for Demands for Grants. necessary to defray the charges which were adopted by Lok Sabha, which will come in course ot are reproduced belOW-Ed.] payment during the year ending the 31st day of March. 1969. in DEMAND No.7-MINISTRY OF EDUCATION respect Of 'Grants to Council of "That a sum not exceeding Scientific and Industrial Re- Rs. 81.34.000 be granted to the search'," President to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges DEMAND No. 12-0THER REVENUE Ex- which win come in course of PENDITURE OF THE MINISTRY or payment during the year ending EDUCATION the 31st day of March. 1969. in respect of 'Ministry of Education·... ''That a sum not cxceedinl DEMAND No. B-EDUCATION Rs. 2.95.69,000 be granted to the President to complete the sum "That a sum not exceeding necessary to defray the charges Rs. 47.58.43.000 be granted to the which will come in course of President to complete the sum payment during the year ending necessary to defray the charges the 31st day of March. 1969. In which will come in course of respect of 'Other Revenue Expen- payment during the year ending diture of the Minislry of Educa- the 31st day of March. 1969. in tion'.tt respect of 'Education·... DBMAND No. 105-CAPITAL OUTLAY or Dl:MAND No. 9-ARcHAlXlLOGY TBII MINIsTRY OF EDuCA'rIOK "That a sum not exceeding Rs. 1.14.418.000 be granted to the ''That a sum not [Mr. Speaker] necessary to defray the charges SHRI M. R. MASANI (Rajkot): I which will come in course of rise to support cut motion No. 78. of payment during the year ending whi.ch notice has been given by my the 31st day of March. 19.69. in hon. colleague. Prof. Rangs, and my- respect of 'Capital Outlay of t.he self. which reads as follows: Ministry of Education·... "Failure of the Government to play an effective role in develop- ing regional security arrange- l'UII hrs. ments for the defence of South and South-East Asia from MnasTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS Chinese Communist expansionism in collaboration with the coun- MR, SPEAKER: The House will tries of South-East Asia, Japan .now take up discussion and voting on and Australia, the need for which "the Demands for Grants under the has become more urgent in view ·control of the Ministry of External of recent developments". Affairs for which 6 hours have been allotted-we are keeping to the sche- Before I come to the major topics dule; till now we have not lost. with which I wish to deal. I would like to observe that in the last few Han. Members present in the House weeks the results of our efforts in who are de6irous of moving cut the international sphere have not motions may send slips at the Table been marked by distinguished suc- -within 15 minutes indicating the serial cess. We have had setbacks on many numbers of the cut motions they fronts. I will only give two exam- "Would like to move. ples. One is the failure of UNCTAD- II which met for several weeks in DEMAND No. 13-ExTERNAL AFFAms our own capital. This big mountain of a conference. which cost the UN MR. SPEAKER: Motion moved: so many million dollars-I do not 'That a sum not exceeding know what it has cost the poor tax- Ra. 14,94,31,000 be granted to the payer of this country to have this President to complete the sum big conference on our soil quite un- necessary to defray the charges necessarily-this big mountain of a which will come in course of conference has -brought forth a paYment during the year ending mouse. not even a mouse. Because it the 31st day of March. 1969 in ended in abiect failure as was ac- respect of 'External Affairs·... cepted by the representatives of Brazil and many other countries on the floor of UNCTAD itself. DlMAND No. l4-OTHER REvENUE Ex- PENDITURE OF THE MINIsTRY OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS The other big failure was the fiasce of Mr. Bhagat's visit to Kenya. MR. SPEAKER: MotiOn moved: I do not have the time today to go into the rights and wrongs of the '-rhat a sum not exceeding position taken by the Government 01 RI. 16.71.13.000 be granted to the Kenya. the Government of Britain President to complete the sun! and our own Government in regard neceBllary to defray the charge3 to the unfortUll8lte people who have which will come in course of got caught in this confiict between paYment during the year ending three Governments and two sets of the 31st day of March. 1969 in racialism. But the point I am on is Tespect of 'Other Revenue Expen- this. It is quite dear that our dip- diture of the Ministry of External lomacy was heaVy footed. that .. Affairs·... were c!umay in the approach we D.G. (Min. of CHAlTBA U, 1890 (SAKA) External A,G'ain) ~ made and that our Minister should Nuclear Proliferation. That is a ble Bever have gone to Kenya unless the issue facing this country and it is a ~un had been prepared and his crucial decision, whether or not to visit was welcomed 'by Mr. Jomo sign that treaty. Our Government Kenyatta and his colleagues. We un- seerna to be altogether without a necessarily exposed ourselves to a policy on this subj oct. On the OllIe ridiculous situation. Another thing hand, it has quite rightly, BICICOIlDC- that marks the failure of our efforts ed-and I give them my full support, was in our peculiar attitude. When my Party is with them on thlB-that ,our Minister was rebuffed by the we should not even attempt to pro- Kenya Government, instead of realis- duce nuclear weapons. We have give. ing that we are up against a new them support and our reasons for it kind of racialism, black racialism when Lal Bahadur Shastri wsa our which is sweeping all Afrif.!a today, Prime Minister. We believe that it we turned round to ftnd a whipping is neither economically nor political- boy and we tumed ,back to our good ly feasible or desirable that we should ilid friends who have been taking make this attempt. Mr. Desai, our whippings from us for the century Deputy Prime Minister, has givea of whipping they gave us earlier. Mr. the economic reasons in an article Nirad Chaudhuri. one of our boldest have wrote in March this year. He .aDd most independent commentators, said that economically it will break ha$ described this phenomenon in an us if we trying to enter this nuclear article he wrote in the Hindust(Ln raCe because of its fantastic cost; it Timcs on the 31st of last month: will not be possible for us to spare any funds unless we are prepared to be much poorer than we are today. "If the Kenya Government has How will that help us? Our people insulted an Indian Minister, and will die in poverty even ,before des- through him both our Govern- truction by a bomb thrown by ment and India, the party to get China". This is what he has said. angry with should be the Gov- Dr. Vikram Sarabhai himself explain- ernment of Kenya and not the ed that all that we can do today witla British Government. It is how- our resources is to create a gimmick, ever our private habit to pass on a gadget which would be somethin& our -bact temper on to those who lying in Trombay and whicli wiIl cannot stand up to us. We know satisfy our national age, but whiall that if we said something strong it will be simply funny to do without against Africans, they would not the means to deliver it in Peking or be discreet or soft-spoken but Shanghai or Canton. For these and would give back more than they other reasons we a-gree with the received. On the other hand, the Government that no attempt should British Government. if not the be made to make the bomb. On the British people, would take it other hand, there seems to be di1!l- lying down. It wsa obviously culty in signing the Treaty and it this feeling combined with a de- looks as if we are going to have the sire to ftnd a safety-valve for worst of both worlds-neither haYe the anger of politjcians, which the bomb nor this treaty agreeinc made the Prime Minister hedge not to make it. Somebody has da- in regard to the British instiga- cribeci our policy as follows: "India tion behiDd the lancied lIIlub at will not sign the treaty; it will not Nairobi." make uae of the nuclear choice; It will not ask tor or accept bilateral guarantees. And it will not look at ] can go on like this, but I should the Security CounciI umbrella". It like to confine IJl¥Rlt to the major is very clear sa to what we will DOt .topics in the short time at my dWpo- do. But the question is, wbat wiJl tIIll. One is the draft Treaty Apiut we do? What does the Government D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 Externa.! Affairs) 2074 (Shri M. R. Masani] stand positively upon, and in order to have deplored it, but deplorable as it help it and the House to make up may be, the Treaty, in art~le VI and. its mind not today ,but in the com- its preamble, does hold out the aim ing months, I would like to examine that even the nuclear powers are the pros and ICons of signing the prepared to discuss submitting them- Treaty Against Nuclear Proliferation. selves to international discipline. Be- cause of the Soviet objection that There are some arguments, which their national sovereignty will be are cogent, against the signing of the infringed by any inspection, which is Treaty. The first of these is that it reactionary, the others haVe agreed. would come in the way of the peace- America has given in, and I deplore ful development of atomic energy. it. But they do say that we shall From what little I have been able look forward to come to terms on to study of the Treaty and find out, that issue. Therefore, one can see I do not think that there is any rea- it is oa very halting and unsatis!ac- sonable basis fOr this complaint tory step towards stopping nuclear Article IV of the Treaty is very clear. proliferation, and I think we would It gives the fullest liberty for the all agree that we would like to see development of the peaceful uses of proliferation stop both in the inter- the atom Article V even allows for ests of humanity and of our own an e l~ion which is very near the country. border line but the explosion must be done by a nuclear power on be- Another argument is that we ma}" half of a non-nudear power with like to go ;11 late, ,"0': nuclear arma" the permission of the world authority. ments to stop the Chinese commua- So, nothing is barred so long as it is ist threat and we should not tie our done in concert with the world hand in this fashion. This again is authority. There cannot, therefore, not very convincing argument be- be the argument that signing it, a cause the treaty under article X opens comes in the way of peaceful deve- the door to any country changing its lopment. And if it does, let minor mind for good reasons by giving only amendments be made to put it right. 90 days' notice. In three months, Sir, A stronger argument is this. That we can untie our hands from this ob- the Treaty is unfair to the non- ligation. Is there anyone to sug- nuclear powers because, while leav- gest that it is too long a period for ing the nuclear powers supreme to getting out of this solemn contract? do what they like and to advance on That again is not a very convincing the path of nuclear armaments, it argument for not signing the Treaty. puts constraints and restraints on all non-nuclear .countries. This is a Let us now consider the other as- very correct argument. It is true pect: what are the disadvantages of that under the Treaty, the Super not signing it? The first is that we Powers are excluded from any mea- will isolate ourselves from the main- lNl'e of interference, inspection or stream of the world. Today, as far eontrol. as one can guess. there are only half a dozen countries who will be ada- Now, I regret that the United mant against singing the Treaty and States which, for over a decade had we should consider the kind of com- insisted that on international inspec- pany in which we shall find our- tion for themselves and for the Soviet selves if we take that step. These Union have given in on this point, countries which are adamant are to an utterly reactionary and out. of Albania, Cuba, Rumania, North Viet. date concept \:)f her national Bover- nam, North Korea and Communist eill1ty eapoused. by the Soviet Gov. China. I for one would not like tb CftIDeDt. It ia a matter of pity. I I» found In that company either by 2075 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) External ADair,) 2076 day or by night. The record of these powers are moving in one direction, eountries and the kind of govern- we should come in the way? In a ments they enjoy or suffer from we speech in this House on July 15 last need not discU88 here. But I wouJ..d year, I had argued-I am quoting: not like to see the country of Gandhi. when the whole world advances in "Our policies should be of try- one direction, join this thieves kitchen ing to bring the two super-powet'S on the other. even closer together than they are today, of helpin, the tenden- Then we shall lose the goodwill of cies to cooperation while not en- both the Super Powers. In a righte- couraging the tendencies to quar- ous cause where principle is involv- rel. This means two things. ed., I would not mind. If both the Wherever the super powers are Super Powers are wroDI, let us cer- more or less in agreement, unless tainly take a consistent stand for it goes against our vital interests, world progress, peace and humanity. We should not come in their w/1tY There will be the political disadvan- and we should not antagonise them. tage of annoying the big two. There But where both of them are quar- will be economic hardships and han- reling, we should certainly not dicaps. Certainly under Article V of take sides, if it can be avoided, the treaty, India will be denied the and we should try to sit quiet benefits of the co-operation of the and use our infiuence to brinl nuclear powers in developing the them together because that ia peaceful uses of nuclear energy. what the peace ot the world and our own interests demand." Today the United States is giving In this case, the two super-powers us nuclear fuel. If we do not sign are cooperating broadly in the direc- the treaty, they will be bound to tion. We may not be satisfied with stop it. Canada has been a very the rate of progress, but to cut acros. friendly country to Us in the nuclear what they are trying to do and to field. All our advance has been thwart this effort and join the com- made with the full participation and pany which I mentioned earlier, I do friendship of the Canadians. They not think would be a very desirable have given generously to us. We political posture for our country. have agreed that We will never use Finally, we lose the benefit, by not this for nuclear armament purposes. signing the Treaty, ot any nuclear It is quite possible that the Govern- guarantee that is attached to thl8 m0nt of Canada will take the line Treaty. There is a draft Resolutien 1 :ut our refusal to sign puts our attached to the Treaty which saY' pledge to them in some doubt It that, with the consent of the Secu- need not be so. We may teli them rity Council. the nuclear deterrent t h'3t we will carry out OUr pledge to will be used to protect any country them, but we do not want to sign the that is attacked by communst Chin. treaty. They may accept it because or any nuclear power. It is true that they are friendly. But they may not the Security Council is not a body accept it. They may say: ''Your position which gives an automatic guarantee. is doubtful. If you are so clear, why There is Great Power veto; there are ..::Ion't you sign it?" So, we may even politics and there is diplomacy. I for lose the Canadian support we have one would have much preferred • been getting over the last decade. guarantee free from the veto of the Security Council. It is not a very 18 hri. gOOd guarantee; it is a very doubtful guarantee. Apart from the danger of annoy- ing everyone. is it a desirable posture But who is responsible for this? I to take up that, when the great say our Government is responsible. 130(AI) LSD-9. 2077 D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 External air ~ [Shri M. R. Masani] By refusing to accept the ofter made Theil, it is argued that Indian pub- as far back as 1964. by the United lic opinion is hostile to signing the States Of 'a bilateral foolproof guaran- Treaty. I would like to question tee, if we were prepared ttl enter that. When we talk of public opi- mto that arrangement, we threw nion, who 'do we mean? 19 it really away a bilateral foolproof guaran- suggested that the peasants in India tee. Again 1'3st year, when Dr. in our villages are greatlY concerned Vikram Sarabhal and Mr. L. K. as to whether we sign or do not sign Jha went to Mosr.ow and Washington, the Treaty Against Nuclear prolife- came back and reported publicly that ration? Does it really mean that the the response was very favourable masses of our country are interesteJ and both powers were inclined to in this technical thing which is an give a parallel guarantee, though not abstract issue? The reality is that it a joint one, a&ain we threw away is a handful of intellectuals and the the initiative. When I asked the elite in this country, a certain num- Prime Minister last July what our ber of chauvinists, who are really in- Government was doing about it, she terested. said: it is not for us to do anything. Then for whom was it to do some- I think Government themse1ves are thing? Did she expect the USA and responsible for not educating public USSlt to come to us on bended knees opinIOn. Look at the Re~ort of the and say "Oh! Bharat Mata! Please Defence Ministry that was put before condescned to accept our guarantee us a few days ago. It highlights the so that we may protect you"? military threat from China. Nobody is more opposed to the posture of As a result of this waffiing and in- Communist China vis-a-vis India decisiveness, we have now lost our than myself. I and my Party stand bargaining power and we have jolly for breaking off diplomatic relations well to take the guarantee that is with that banclit regime. But r say ofJered unsatisfactory as it might be. that the main threat from Communist But eJen now, I would urge on the China is political. It is not only Prime Minister that in the few military; it i' a mixed one, if you months that still remain before the like. We are stressing more alld morl' Treaty comes up for signature, be- the military threat and are neglect- cause it now goes to a Special Session ing the political threat which has al- of the General Assembly, during readqy raised its head in Bengal and these few months, let us try for two elsewhere-in Naxalbari which was things. Let us try to improve the a symbol of what is coming to this terms of the Treaty to the extent that country. Nothing can please Mao it is possi,ble in the General Assembly Tse-tung and his lot more than our from our own point of view. Second- entering into a mad arn,s race with ly, let us still get from the USA and them which will ruin our economy, the Soviet Union some quid pro quo bring more starvation and e r~ a for signlrig the Treaty. tion and drive more and mom people If we want conventional armaments into the arms at their Ffth Column which are not being given to us, let through that economic distress. us get those conventional arms. If we want a particular kind of econo- We have got probably six months mic assistance, let us ask for it. If or four or five months before thl' we want political support and good- Treaty will come for final signature- will, let us get it because that is how and I would suggest to the Prime business is done at the international Minister-let there be a small par- level. We still have a few months. liamentary Committee of serious stu- Let us not pursue this path of neither dl'nts of this subjeet from all sections having the bomb nor the advantages of the HoUlle to study this TreIlty. of not making the bomb. Let them place beftlre it 8lf milCh 2m D,G. '(Min. of CHAITM 14, 1890 (SAKA) l::cternal Affairs) aoSO information as they think can be nature on their silh. Imt thltre bas lia el~ liven to us. What is highly been a deafenin& silence in so far as confidential they need not disclose to ~ e is concerned. I hope when she us. Let us that way educate our- replies to the debate tQl!lorrow, she selves and the oountry to the pros will make a call on the North 'Tiet- and ~ons of this matter in '8 purely namese Government, on whose '.!e- pragmatic spirit. Let then the Gov· half she had been arguing for the ernment came before us-it is their cessation of bombing, to show what obligation-and say whether we they are prepared to do concretely in should sian or not s~ the treaty. It rHponse to this 90 per cent accept- i. not my job or that cf anyone on ance of our demand. this side, who are denied the infor- lTlation, today to come out and .ay, The Indian ExpreBB in an editorial "Yes, si£l1 the treaty" or "Do not this morning put this matter clearly sign". I am not prepared to take when it said:- either position at this staie. But a day will come wken t;,i5 Parliament "What an honest middleman will have to express it~el if it is not sets out to achieve is the &reatest done now. It is the obligation of the common measure of agreement, Government to come before us, edu· In effect, President Johnson haa cate us, iive us the ir,formation and come 90 per cent of the way. It then face us with their concrete pro- is Indias' plain duty, as Chair- posal. man of the ICC, to persuade Hanoi and Moscow to move 10 In the remaining time ,hat I have per cent in response." l!'t me turn to another major aspect- that is the cut motion mewed by The UK Government. within a few m-the position in South and South Lours, made an approach to MoIIcow. East Asia. In the last two days that If the Prime Minister does not come situation has undergone a dramatic out with this kind of a clear caU change by .the pronouncement made tomorrow, then I am afraId Asia. We do not care what its people When the Associatalon of South- want to do. Let them go Communist East Asian nations was formed on the if they like. We are not going to 8th AUIUSt, 1967, we should have shed our blood anY more. Let us con- joined it, but We kept aloof. Now tine ourselves to the Atlantic world, it is announced that Ceylon, Burma to Hemisphere defence as the isola- and Cambodia, neutralist countries, tionists would like to call it. That non-allgned countries, are going to will be a very sad day for India ana join it. But we do not maJte llDy the neighbouring countries. mo"e. Why do we not taJte any inte- rest while the other neutralist coun- Therefore, somebody has to fill up tries are dropping the clII!te system? the vacuum. I do not want outsiders How long are we going to carry on to do it. The countries of South- this Brahminism and treat every one East Asia and South Asia, surround- else as non-Brahmins? mg the Indian nation, should be the countries to fill the vacuum. But how Uur former Foreign Minister, Mr. do We do it? Could we do it alone? hagla, visited several countries of the Have we got the Navy? Have we region in May, 1967, and he promise got the Air Force? The answer is 'No'. to submit to the statesmen of those Therefore, this vacuum can only ,be countries a scheme for a council u1 fUled if we join hands with our neieh- Asia. That was in May, 1967. After bours, with Ceylon, Burma, Thailand, some time, when the other statesmen Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Aus- were asked: ''Have you received the ,ralia aDd New Zealand to secure our draft of the Council of Asia?" they shores from the threat from the seas. said, "No, we have not heard from Mr. Chalrla again". Unfortunately, far from taking a lead in this direction, we have been most backward and most laggardly On June 17, 1967, Tunku Abdul in this situation. We have been look- Rahman complained that he was still Ing down on other countries as infe- awaiting the contents of the proposal rior because, ten years ago they align- from India. He said, "He had pro- ed themselves in defence of their mised to send me the details of the security while we indulged in the proposal, but so far there has been folly that led to the invasion on our no new development". own country in 1962. We still go on behaving like Brahmins and treat thp The Ceylonese Prime Minister had so-called aligned countries as Hari- the same story to tell. He said "So tar as I am concerned, I have not heard jans. Which were these countries? anythIng about it". Japan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singa- pore and Taiwan. These were the In Singapore, on May 8, 1967, Mr. countries which made s choice. Right- Chagla very bravely said that what- ly or wrongly, we disagreed with ever assistance We can give to South- them. but are we going to carry on East Asia to resist ChineSe communist this theoretical, doctrinal quarrel for expansionism we shall be glad to do centuries? Is it not time now that, so. Three months later, he told the faced with a common threat, we stop Rajya Sabha that the Government'. this caste system and say: "Let us get pollcy was not to enter into regional together'" security arrangements with our neigh- bours in this region against China. In September, 1966, Mr. Lee Kwan Yew vilited New Deh1. He tried to awakeD our Government to their oblt- Now, let up not imagine that ,.tiona. Unfortunately, he failed all these countries are waiting for WI and, wheD he left, he told the Press or that they are dying for us to loin. that India was perhaPS living in • That day is gone. Ten years ago, they ~ orl . would hBve been gratefull to us for D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 External Affairs) 2086 l~ri M.R. fIiIalIani] going to their rescue, but toaay they some of the points raised bySlui M. R. will accept us if we want to, and they Masahi. He has raised many points, do not care two hoots if we do not. ,but to my mind the most important of these are (i) our oalleged fallure Mr. ChMlchal Sarker, writinR in to handle the Kenya crisiS, (ii) the Hindtl8t4fl Standard of 11th March, usual tirade against our policy of non- 1988, ·after visiting all the countries alignment. ... of the region, including 'Indonesia, nts: SHRI M. R. MASANl: No tirade. 4'll1ldia has acquired an image abroaa of a star ~ indigent SHRI SRADHAKAR SUPAKAR: ... nation ,beset with .violent inter- and (iii) our signing the non-pro.!.iftera- nal disorders which would pUil tion treaty. askew all ASian economic plan and suck in all the benefits." I shall take up first the ncent deve- We are not goilig to be 'greeted as lopments in Ken:y'9. This matter 'has great saviours and Hberators, 'but still been discussed In thts House on two they wam us. If we do not gp then occasions previoU!lly. All that I wish it will be 50 mUch the worse for us to say is that 'thisftllitter has been and not for them, becauile -they are sl.lfftclently discussed bllt still again getting together. Turilru Abiiul Rah- and again, allegations have ~ 'moade man reCently visited -lndbnesill, the thllt the Government of 'India -fened in country Of ' Dr. SUkarno, the to~ om their duty to protect the people of munist dictator, whiehh9d 'threatened Asian region who are residing in "Confrontation". He was received Kenya lind who wanted to migt'".lte to Itke apop\llar hero 'by the same coun- the UK. In this conneCtion,I would try that had declared war On his like to ask what mort 'the Govern- country. rnent of Indta should have and could have done to 'protect the intl!rests of 'IniioneSia is developing ties with the people Of Asian origin in -Kenya? Taiwan and South 'Korea. They know where the troopS come from when 18.22 hrs. they are oattacked. They do not ex- pect anything from us. Malaysia and [MR. SPEAKER in the Chair] Sill.'lapore are joining with New Zea- land, AuStralia and Britain in oa meet- It is well known that when the Gov- ing in a few months to consider how ernment of Kenyapoassed the immi- the vacuum created by the threat of gration law and the law of trade licen- Brit'ish naval forces to withdraw in sing, the Govenunent of India advised 1971 can be filled. But why only five? the people of Indian origin residing in Why don't our Government say; we Kenya to accept the citimenship of that oare prepared to come in and play our State, and to identify their interest proper part in the defence of our own with the interest' Of the residents of India Ocean? I want to leave that that country. But due to some reason thought with the Government and the or other, at that time, many people of Prime Minister. As I said, I speak Asian origin j,ust chose to take the in support of our Cut Motion and, un- UK citizenship, and the reason why less she makes satisfactory statementa they did so is not very far to seek. At on this subject oand on the Vietnam that time, as has been mentioned here issue, we shall press our Cut Motion previously also, there was ,persuasion when it is put to the vote tomorrow. on behoalf of some British leaders to those people to accept the UK citizen- SHRl SRADHAKAR SUPAKAR: ship as a measure of safety. At that (Sambalpur): Within the limited time time also they had two alternatives at my dISposal I shall try to meet to accept the UK citiZllaship or ~ 2087 D.G. (Min. '0/ CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) Eztemal Affairs) 2088 come to India by accepting Indlan from ~in to UK, though the Kenyans citizenship. Between the three choices, have a fundamental right to go there the choice to remain there, the choice because they hold UK citizenship to migrate to India and the choice to rights. At that t1me, our Minister also migrate to' the UK, 'they had Bome tried to help by making a categorical difficulty in maldng a proper choice. statement in this House, on 29 Febru- The people staying there, especially ary this year, not a doay too late, I ±hose who were making good profits should say, where he emphasised the and who were victims of racial discri- fact that the people of Asian origin mination in that country could not holding British passports had a funda- 'identify themselves with the people mental right to go to UK and the Bri- there; at least some of them could not tish Government should not hoave dep- do so. Of course, we must remember rived them of their right to go UK, that more thoan 1~ people have and they were their responsibility. accepted Kenyan citizenship. But re- There was also a statement garding the rest, the reason why they that if under these circumstan- decided to migrate to the UK rather ces the UK wants to prevent these than come to India was that they were people from going to UK of which 'better off in Kenya and they had been country they are citizens, the Gov- better off in Kenyoa than the average ernment of India might be compelled .citizens of India. to revise the present regulations re- garding the coming of persons holding British Commonwealth passports into In this connection, I would l'ike to India. draw your attention to a very interest- ing and illuminating article which ap- peared in The Hindusorne time ago. When a discussion took place in this Of C'Ourse, it W'3.S before Kenyan Inde- pendence; at that time, many of these House, it was stated by the Minister people of Asioan ortgin, Indians as well that after the Bill was passed in the House of Commons, the number of as Pakistanis, were haVing a better standard of life there in Kenya than people whd should be pennitted to im- they would have had if they had come migrate to the UK should not be con- to India. I am referring to the article fined to the paltry figure of 1500 per annum but should be at the'rate of by Mr. Chann,!ln Singh in The Hindu, 15;000' per 'lInn'um.' Here I may ~a which appeared in 1960. It is stated out from the statement of the hon, that at that t'ime alS'O the average wage thoat was earned by the Asian Minister made on 6th March, 1968. people was much higher than that earned by the native people there, and it worked out to £570 per annum, MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He may which comes to about Rs. 633 per month. Is it possible for those people resume his speech tomorrow. Hon. who were earning there something Members, may now move the cut motions to Demands fOr Grant. relat- like Rs. 600 per month to come to ing to the Ministry of External AJ!airs, India fI:lr a precarious job? When we compare the employment opportuni- subject to their being otherwlle ad- misssible. ties available in India and in the UK, can we blame t4em for preferring and accepting UK citizenship at that time'! At that time, they never anticipated l )~~~~~ (f1fq) that such a situation would be created it ~ n ~ ~ f'f. : by the immigration loaw passed I)y the UK in the last week of February this year. AlI the trouble arose out of the ~ t a ll i~ ~ ~ A"f1 fact that the UK in a panic tried to shut out these people of Asian origin 1ft" q 100 ~ ~ ~ ~ "'" I D.G. (Min. of APRIL 3, 1968 External Affairs)' 2090 [15ft l! ~ ~ ~~ appear before him in a bunch wit" 42. [\lTl: SHRI H. N. MUKERJEE (Calcutta "That the Demand under the North DaBt): I beg to mOve: Head External Affairs be reduced by Rs. 100." "That the Demand under the Head External Affairs be reduced (Lines of co-operation with Afro- by Rs. 100." Asian States in the struggle against the latest ghastly policies apar- [Deplorable record of working of our Of theid. (68)]. High Commission in Lorndon. (62)]. "That the Demand under the "That the Demand under the Head External Affairs be reduced Head External Affairs be reduced by Rs. 100." by Rs. 100." [MysteriOUB project to set up an "in- (Failure to leave the British Common- ternational city" called Auroville wealth. (69)]. near PondicheTTl/ and Government'. role in relation to it. (63)]. "That the Demand under the Head External Affairs be reduced "That the Demand under the by Rs. 100." Head External Mairs be reduced by Rs. 100." (Full diplomatic recognition of th. German Democratic Republic. (70)}. [Implications or pre•• report that the U,s. President did not receive an "That the Demand under the Ambassador in the tLBU41 mallltler for Head External Affairs be reduced accreditation but directed him to by Rs. 100." 2091 D.G. (Min. of CHAITRA 14, 1800 (SAKA) Tr«de with 2092 E:ctemal Affairs) Socialist Countries (HA.H. DiI.) [Setting up of a fuU-fledged embassy [Failure of the Government to play in the Peoples Republic of Mongo- a.n effective role in developing re- lia. (71)]. gional ,ecurityarrangementB tOT the defence of South and South-East "That the Demand under the Aria from Chinese Communist ex- Head External Af'lairs be reduced pansionism in collaboratiOIR toith the by Rs. 100." countries Of south-East Asia, Japan [Need for initiating and BUBtaining a.nd A ustrClIaria, the need for tohich friendly policies in relation to all our h48 become more urgent in view of neighbour States. (72)]. recent developments. (78)]. ''That the Demand under the MR. DEPUTY -SPEAKER: The Cut Head External Affairs be reduced Motions are also now before the H\:Iuse. by Rs. 100." [N eed for fresh imaginative and cour- ageous initiatives for securing 18.29 hrs. friendly relations with pakistan. (73) ]. EXPANSION' OF TRADE WITH "That the Demand under the SOCIALIST COUNTRIES Head External Affairs be reduced by Rs. 100." o.f•• ~ ~ (~) : 73"lT- [Problems oj "ccruitment of our diplo- ~ ~ro r ~ "My dear Ambassador, ''We know th'3t considerable quantities of this construction is When I met you in Rotterdom on being brought from us by east 27th April, I gave a brief report to European countries also. you about the switch trade in our cotton textiles practised by some One importer, who wanted his of the East European countries. name to be kept out, even frank- During my recent survey of the ly confessed that he would not Netherlands market, I was in- like to buy grey cloth directly fonned by two leading importers from us when he can ,et our that Indian grey cloth brought by greys from eastern Europe at ;f Eastern Europe finds its way to per cent lower prices. Trade with CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) S'OciatiBt Countries 2o¢i (H.A.H. Dis.) The reason why Netherlands has ~ ~ I ~~ m..- ~ ~ it ~ ~ been chosen for this switch trade is duetolilck of imporrrestTietions ~ ..~ ~~l ~~~ ·on.the One handand''Very' few ~ ~ ;;qro l r~ qT If'tm I c:uatoms f markets and that is to the detriment ~il l l 11 i a ~ ~~ of our trade with West European tr.lT -countries. it \Ill 1ffi'f :;mrr ~ ~ ""'" ~i ~ I1cfT 'ImfT ~ ~ ~ ~r ~ 'liT 1ffi'f In v'lew Of the points that I have made, I would urge upon the Minister ~ it ~ .~~m~ ~ to consider and let us know to what ~ 'tit lI"T ~~ 'tit 'Ihrr (fT mh -extent and in what manner he is go- +1'ih"'Ui.fl ~ ~! r wf a:r ~ ~ ing to gtrard against these contingen- '5f""\' ~ ~e : Wq.;:r ~~ ~~~~ lti 1~ ~ 1hr iFf fcnmcf ~ ~ f -;-:-, ~ ~ it 1ffi'f .~ ~ 1~ ffln: ~ mlJ ~rn (fT< 'l"<: t"lT The expansion of exports and im- SHRI KAMESHWAR SINGH: In- ports under this system has helped the fer'ior quality. country to have a more balanced in- SHRI MOHD. SHAFI QURESHI: ternational trade. Not only has the Not inferior quality. After all, we compositi'On of this trade been in '3.re the buyers and, as a ~ns ientious accordance with our IUltional priori- buyer we are buying the goods of the ties, but, more important thlng is that best quality. I can assure the House the unorthodox method of payment, that East European countries are send- featuring "counter-patronage", has ing the best quality they can afford. given us considerable advantage in our development programme. SHRI PILOO MODY: What do we export in its place? BeC'ause 'Of the scheme of bilatera- lism, our essential imports are being SHRI MOHD. SHAFI QURESHI: continuously paid for by the exports will gj.ve the .figures. of goods of a matching value rather than in terms of free foreign ex- The second advoantage that we have change. One can very well imagine is that we borrow technology and that if we had to import heavy mach- technical know-how from these coun- inery and equipment from these west- tries on a lung-term basis and the ern countries, it would have been at capital goods on a long term basis and the cost of a great erosion of our We have to pay these 100ans, not in foreign exchange resources which we terms Of .currency of that country. but could little afford at this time. we have to pay through exports of goods leaving no residue, or burden to SHRI PILOO MODY (Godhra): heavy foreign debts. What do we export· My hon. friend knows that we are now not only exporting traditional SHRI MOlID. SHAFI QURESHI: I goods to these East European coun- will give the figures. tries but we have made a shift and you will see what goods we could not Thus as '3.gainst the convertable cur- sell in western countries, we have rency trade with the rest of the world, !found. a very good market in East I would just enumerate the advanta- European countries and these coun- ges in this bilateral balance trade. tries have proved to be a stepping stone for Us to make dents in other We import only those items which developed countries of the world. We are most necessary for our e~nom at are grateful t'O these countries for the comparable prices for matching qua- help they have rendered to us. lity. We buy nothing from the rupee countries which we do not import The third '3.dvantage is that it pro- from other sources. My hon. friend motes exportability Of new items or raieed doubts that we are purchasing our manufacture which otherwise face certa,., things which are unnecessary stiff competition 'in the industrialised for our cCJmltry and that we are pay- world in the initial stae"s and, as I ing a higker price for them. This is said earlier. would not have found not correet. In bulk purchaHB, the markets. For instance, our nles of .2103 D.G. (Min.. of CHAITRA 14, 1890 (SAKA) External Affairs)' .2104: footwear, machine tools, refrigerators, ~ I ~ . R ~ ~-~~ ~ fruit juices, thermos flasks, surgical gloves, knitwear and other 'engineer- ~ ~1 i1 ~~m ing goods and chemicals to the East ~ ~.r r ~ 1ft lIim ~~ ~ European countries through these ~~~~~ i !i . trade plosns have eventually enabled it us to sell them in the Western mar- ;flIT ifi': 1 0 0 ~ 111 I'ffif 'liT ~ 'liT 85 kets also. Thus the rupee trade helps llqifit ~~ I ;fQl''t ~i ~ I!i't as a stepping stone to train and build up our exports and to achieve exper- lTmI' ~ ~ I tise and confidence m sell these new and difficult-to-sell items in the fierce- SHRr MOHD. SHAFI R S l ~ ly competitive and sophisticated world think, I hosve not been .... mosrkets.· Then; the unit price that we fetch for our exports is levelled upwards by MR. CHAIRMAN: I will tell him. the bulk buying by these centrally The hon. Member says that the foreign planned and controlled economies exchange that we would have not with full freedom to us to' pay inter- from western countries, we do not get national prices for goods. which we by this kind of trade. buy fl"Om these countries for our basic requirements. So, we are not paylnlt a penny higher than the international SHRI MOHD. SHAFI QURESHI: I prices which we would have normally have not been able to make myself paid had we purchased the same from clear in English. So, I will !!peak in, the Western countries. Hindi. Then, we lift the seasonal surplus of our farms and planbtion products which would otherwise have depres- ~ ~ itt ~~ l i~ it sed OUr production. ~ .i (f'I; fnpf ~~ 'fT ~ ~~ 'f.1IT lJ1lT ~ flf; ~ll r ~.rt ~ ~~) t r My hon. friend, Mr. Kameshwar ~1 1 ~i ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Singh made a point abtlut the switch ;iT Cflrl trade. His grievance is that the ;it ""'T "lTIfT ~ o;rh: ~~ ~ ~ ~ l!~ Indian goods go to the Port of Trieste r-~ 'Iilffit ~ W ~ ~ and from there, the goods which are ~m r -~ l ~ ~~ ~ meant for the destinations in a~t 'fiT I 'fiT European countries are switched over ~ ~ ~ t ll1t 1~m~ ~~ to some West European countries and ~ 'fir ~ li 'l<: ~r m ~ there, they are S'Old at 15 per cent lesser price. If, according to him, q-nn f.t; it ~ ;rrff 1T9 'l) t ~ i ~l r1 (~~) : ~ (pf; ~ ~ itr~ ~ 1 r~~ i~~ ~ ~~~~~~~~.~ ~ ~ ifl'V oittIr it ~ f'i§ ~ ~~~ i~ iti. m m. ~~ li~ I i! ~~~ ~i ~~~ ~ ~ ~ Ai ~ ~it ~ m cmr m.: ~~t I tm'I' ~ ~ cmr om ~ ~ 'In':- «imf;r if; oi'tlT q. 1fT ~ ~ li' 'fiT'I1 1I'i"f.t ~~ 1 ~ ? cmr We are not exporting ideas' Ot f.mtlOrt- 15ft ~~ ~ mi- ~ : f,;m?flrij ing ideologies. We are e orttb~ goods ltnd jmpcmin, goofil< Ie, ~e W: ~ ~ li' 3J:crT 1hr'1T ~ does the questioD of communism or AiIfT ell ~ if; ~ <'I1 ;qt aIti JIllIif Qt ~ Ut 'tiT ~ ~~.~~~~ .~~i1~ Rt.rr t ~ ~ ifRf <'fRT ~ ~ fiI; ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ {If mit-~ ~ fiI; ~ ~ m'f ~ ~ ~ fiI; ~ i ~ ~~i oo.~ ~~m ~~ ~ ~ ItiT Uu fif;In' aT iIR m IImF.T ~.~. \t'tliilii".nl m ~ ~ ~ 'tiT ~ ;p:rr (t ~ ~ I mr~~~~~ ~ m-lti 1 1n~~~ mm 30 'l'{1'II ~ ItiT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I 19.7 hrs. ~~~~t t~ R~ The Lok Sabha then adjourned till tfiT I ~ ~ ~ ~ trnl' eleven of the Clock on Thursday. Apri! ItiTmf1l;1nt ~mm~~ 4, 1968/Chaitra 15, 1890 (Sa1cG). OMOIPND-LS 11-130 (AI) LSD-z5-9"'68-loro.