Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
THURSDAY, 25 SEPTEMBER 1902
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
Suppl,y. [25 SEPTEMBER.] Separationf,•um Federal Union. 659
THURSDAY, 25 SEPTE11BER, 1902.
The SPEAKER (Hon. Arthur M organ, Wa1·wick) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock. QUESTIONS. :1\IrNING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY BILL. Mr. COWAP (Fitz>·oy) asked the Secretary for Mines- 1. Does he intend to introduce a Mining on Private Property Bill tht~ session~ 2. If so, when? The SECRETARY FOR MINES (Hon. R. Philp, Townst·ille) replied !. Yes. 2. 1Vhen time permits. CAsE m· M. J. HANNEY. Mr. COWAP asked the Premier, for the Secre tary for Public Instruction- !. Has his attention been called to the case of
}:1alachi J ames Hanney j teacher of the provisional school, Alligator Point, charged and tined for assaulting
Geraldine Gordon 1 a child seven years of age ( 2. After what has taken place, is it intended to retain his services in the department P The PREMIER (Hon. R. Phi!p, Townsville) replied- !. Yes. 2. The teacher and the school committee have been asked to report on the circumstances. When the reports are received, action will be taken by the depart ment.
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS. On the motion of the PREMIER, it was formally resolved- That so much of the Standing Orders be suspended, for this day, as will admit of the receiving of resolu tions frmn the Committe•~s of Supply and 1\'~ays and ~leans on the san::.e day on which they shall have passed in those committees; also of the passing of an Appro priation Bill through all its stages in one day.
SEPARATION FROM FEDERAL UNION. Mr. PLUNKETT (Albert), in moving-- That, in the opinion of the House, it is desirable that the Government, at an early da-te, take steps to bring about the separation of Quet:;nsland from the federal union, in order that the State may have the same con trol over its finance::., Customs, defence, and other matters as was enjoyed befoTe the union, as otherwise there is nothing left us but increased and unbem'able ta:x.a.tion and national and individual insolvency- said: I am quite aware of the importance of this motion, and the action I am taking is en tirely my own. As the motion is printed, some hon. members say that I have gone a little too far, and in deference to their wisbes I will move the omission of all the words after the word "union," on the 5t.h line. No hon. member can accuse me of inconsistency in connection with this matter, because I have been an opponent of federation for many yf-:trs, and I never could see that (-lueensland would benefit through federa tion. Previous to the referendum I spent time and money in opposing tbe federation movement. As is well known, my busines~ outside the House consists of dairying and fattening cattle, so that it cannot be said that I am actuated by any selfish motive in taking this course. But I am not going to apologise for introducing this motion. Ever since we had the misfortune to join the federal union, it was my thought that some way could be found out of the union. During the last session of the previous Parliament I had intended to introduce something in this connec tion, but tbe general election coming on I knew 660 Separation f1·om [ASSEMBLY.:; Federal Union. that members would not tie themselves to this spread poverty all through the State. \Vhile important matter. This time I have taken our Government are making themselves unpopu action, and I hope I shall be able to give lar by introducing drastic measures of retrench sufficient reasons to induce a. very large number ment and taxation, the Federal Government in of member•, and the greater portion of the people Victoria are spending our money and borrowing of Queensland, to come to the conclusion that in more, for which we shall have to pay our share introducing this motion lam doingtherigbt thing. of the interest. They have inflicted fatal blows From all portions of the colony-from the Tweed upon somP of our most important industries, and to Cairns, I may say-I have had letters con they have imposed duties which are inimical to gratulating me on my action in introducing this our interests. I will only refer to one small one motion. I aleo had a quite unexpected telegram -the duty on steel rails. In my electorate there from Townsville, signed by many representative is a small branch line or tram way being made, business men in that town, wishing me every and on that short distance alone the duty on the success with my motion. I have not the tele steel rails required for the work amounts to over gram by me just now, but I have telephoned for £1,400. That was an unanticipated expense to it, and will read it to the House when it arrives. us. I have now received the telegram from 'When speaking on the Address in Reply, I said Townsville to which I referred, and with the that if we had a man at the head of affairs like permission of the HouBe I will read it. It is as the late Sir Thomas ~Ici!wraith he would very follows:-- probably take ver? energetic measures to try to \Ye, the undersigned electors of Townsville, beg to get our Customs and excise duties back into the compliment yon on your motion before the House, hands of our State Treasurer. I believe that if advocat,ing the colony's withdrawal from federal con trol, and \Vish you every success :-J. X. Pa.rkes, presi that were done by the present head of the dent of the Chamber of Commerce; W. A. Ackers, Government he would have the great majority chairman of the Harbour Board; R. :.\Iawby, chairman of the country on his side. However, this of the Divisional Board·; Messrs. Cameron, Rooney~ is a more constitutional means, and if adopted Leu, \Vellington, Cowley, ..icllam, Donaldson, Patience, will lead other Stateo to take action in the same Unmack, Tunbridge, Huchanan, Rollwagen, Mehan, way. Three of them have already begnn to take Bacot, Allen, Castling, Bartlarn.~T. \Villmett, ~Iayor. action. I hope the Rouse will not look at this It was a surprise to me to receive that tele motion from a party point of view, or in a petty gram, and was all the more welcome on that spirit, but as a na.tional question, to see what account. \Ve have been retrenching in every steps we can devise, if any, to bring this once possible way in this State to keep ourselves flourishing and prosperous colony out of the square, while the Federal Government have slough of despond which it has fallen into owing bPen spending- the money on themselve.- and to federation. It is sufficient for me to know their friends in Melbourne. Is it any wonder that we are federated. Unfortunately we were that this State is discontented? Even New trapped into federation, and we must find some South vVales, one of the States most benefited means of getting out of it. On this subject there bv federation, is looking at it in that light also. was a meetir:g of Brisbane citizens last night, Not many days ago a question was asked of the when some very strong arguments against the Premier in the New South \Vales Parliament federal union were used. The first motion by Mr. ~eilson whether he was aware of the carried at the meeting was- widespread feeling of indignation caused by the rhat, in view of the unworkable and opp1·essive unfair treatment meted out to New South -character of the Federal Constitution in its relation to \Vales by the Federal Government, and the Queensland, unless the necessary steps are at once Premier's answer was that as we had agreed taken to relieve this State of the difficulties which now to federate we must work out our own surround it, petitions be presented to the State Parlia destinies. A few days afterwards there was ment, the Federal Parliament, the Imperial Parlia ment and Government, praying that the name of the trouble between the State Government Q,ueensland be struck out ofthe aforesaid Constitution. of New South \Vales and the Federal Go vernment over Dawes Point. Such a thing And the second was- bas never happened before between two Govern That, consequent on the foregoing, a league of all ments in Australia, as the late Premier of New persons in sympathy with the movement be now South \Vales and the present Premier of that formed, and that an approved petition for the object State threatening war over Dawes Point. In set out be circulated for signature throughout Queens view of what has taken place, I think it is just land. as well to ask the Premier to have the guns I hope this will ha.ve the desired effect of spread removed from the Botanical Gardens in Bris ing the agitation all over the colony. \Vhen bane, or the Federal Government may claim federation was agreed to, there was a wave of the Botanical Gardens. Sir John See said that sentimentalism all over Queensland. Some of the States must work out their own destinies. the ablest men from the southern colonies came How sympathetic! \Vhen an artery in our body here preaching the blessing; that were to flow politic has been severed, we must not ask to from a federal union. We were to have stanch the wound, but must let it bleed to one flag and one destiny ; there was to be death! They treat us as a conquered State, universal brotherhood and all the rest of it. though we are co-ef)ual in every way, bar in The Federal Government had not been very population and cheek. Am I to be blamed long in office before it began to show the cloven because I stand up for the country of my foot. They began by insulting our own State adoption. where I have lived forty years ? Premier, and I consider that an insult to the This is a country very dear to me. It contains Premier is an insult to the Parliament and to every interest I have in the world. The best the State. All their promises were broken like of my days have been spent in Queensland, so much pie-crust after they had got their own and my dearest wish is to see Queensland ends served. Thanks to federal action, our prosperous. I don't think it is worth while to financial position ha& been gradually growing speak of the criticisms of some of our papers. worse and worse, and will not improve until [An honourable member: Go on.] Yes, I think we are out of the toils. The resuit so far I will; and I am delighted to think that the has been general retrenchment in the civil Courier is opposed to this motion, because service, the curtailment of endowment to local that is a sure harbinger of success. \Vhat the bodies, increased railway rates and freights, a Courier praises goes down, and what the Courier promised income tax, and a large and increasing dispraises comes to t~e top. It is not alone number of unemployed, together with wide- trying to injure me, but it is also trying to Separation from [25 SEPTEMBER.] Fedeml Union. 661
bluff the Ptemier fmm supporting this motion. charitable institutions. All these things could be I say, "All credit to the t'remier, even though continued as formerly if we had the control of he wa; a federationist, for taking the stand our own money in our own hands. \V ell, how he has taken against the action of the Federal long are we going to allow this to go on? The Government." Coming to the financial aspect of House should take the matter seriously into the questinn, I saw the other day when Sir G. consideration, and hon. members ought to look Turner was making his financial speech in the at it from a broad natiOnal standpoint, and not Federal Parliament, he complained that some of from the point of view of party. No man in this the t)tates said that federation was responsible House ha" a greater interest in Qneensland's for the short:,ge in State revenues, but that was prr'"perity than I have. Others may h~;tve not really so. But the figures in connection with different upinions to mine, but I hope that the the Treasury in Brisbane show that the state motion will be seriously deb;;ted. It is the m;mt is not true. I _have the figures here, and I biggest que>tion that has been introduced by a will read them. It Is a comparative statement private member, at all events during· the time I showing receipts and expenditure of depart have been in this House, and I hope that hon. ments transferred to the Currnnouwealth for the members will sink all party differences, and years 18flD-1900 and 1901-1902. :First, I will work together for the interests of Queensland take the revenue in 18B9-1000 under State for the land that has been a home to us fur a control, and in 1901-1902 under Commonwealth great length of tim», I hope that their better control :;-Customs and excise, £1,610,112 in judgment will lead them r.o vote in favour 1899-1900, and £1,297,6(i2 in Hl01-1902, a de of the motion, and that it will have the crease of £312,450; Defence, £7,831 in 18!19- effect of inducing some of the other States 1900, and £27ii in 1901-1902, a decrease of £7,556; to do likewise. I trust that the motion will be Post and Telegraphs, £309,470 in 1899-1\JOO, a.nd carried. I am well aware that there are great £312,882 in 1901-1902, an increase of £3,412. difficulties in the way ; but there were very Total revenue under State control, £1,927,413; great difficulties in the way of fedetation at one under Commonwealth control, £1,610,819, being time. I never thought that Queensland would a decrease of £316,59-1. Now I will take the be mad enough to enter the federal union, but expenditure for chose years-Customs and ex she wa> ; and I hope that the ste!JS that were cis~, £5!1,608 in 1899-1900, and £63,695 in 1901- taken to induce the people to vote for federation 11J02, an increase of £-1,087 ; Defence, £106 691 will not be adopted to get out of the union. I in 1890-UlOO, and £183,69() in Hl01-1902 ' an do not want to take np much time. These increase of £77,005 ; Pust and 'l'elegr~phs, events are of too recent occurrence, and they are £361,376 in 1899-1900, and £414 886 in pressing too hardly upon us to require much to 1901-1902, an increase of £53,510.' Total be said. I again ask the Government to recog expenditure under State control, £527,675; under nise the position we are in. \Ve have suffered a Commonwealth control, £662,277, being an lot ; the colony is suffering at the present increase of £134,602. Adding the amount of time ; bnt no one is suffering more than .£310,i'ifl-1, decrea,ed revenue, to £134,fj02, in the present Government. Owing to the un creased expenditure, and including £44,243, that fortunate leakage in Customs and excise, they make'' a difference of £495,419 tu the bad under have had to introduce measures that are Commonwealth control as compared with State extremely unpopular; but there is no use in control. If that is an argument fur union, I do not speaking about that now. I believe that if a poll know what an argument is. Not only that but were taken to-morrow in Queensland there would I read in the paper to-day a rPmark made by the be a large majority in favour of secession from Premier yesterday to the effect that, not alone the union, and I again ask hon. members to look were the Federal Government taking what the at the question from a Queensland standpoint, law entitled them to take, but they had taken and see whether we are gaining, or whether we nearly £20,000 which they had no r1ght to take. are likely to gain, by the bargain. I tbink we Are we going to stand that? I say that when this have lost very considerably. \Ve have lost our sort of work-robbing-I thing "robbing" is the independence, and we have lost our money. proper name-when this is going on, 1 say that "\.Vhenever any firm, or any Government, hands all the opposition we can give to it is warranted. the key of its qafe to someone at a distance, that We know very well that, if we continue as we firm or that Government is iu a very bad are, nothing is going to improve. \Ve are told position. \Ve want our Customs and our excise that we are not going to get back back again, and we want the management of our [4 p.m.] as much money next year as we busineos in our own hands again-business that we have got this, and the increa>e in managed very well in the past; but, unfortu expenditure will be very much larger. I believe natelv, we were trapped into parting with it. they haYe agreed to give a subsidy to the Aus What I prophesied before federation has unfortu tralian Squa_drun of £200,000, arid, as far as nately come to pass-that is, we had all to lose QueenAland IS concerned, that squadron might and nothing to gain by federation. I am very as Wt;ll be in Portsmouth harbour. We pay a much obliged to hon. members for the way in certain amount--not very much, of course-and which I have been received, and I hope that we never see one of those ship.< here. We are hon. members will speak ou the motion, and treated just the same as if we were strangers, that they will come to a just conclusion in regard instead of as an integral part of the Common to it. I beg to move the motion in the amended wealth. It is time for us to take some steps form. [Honourable members: Hear, hear!] in the direction of severance. I do not know what is going to be done. I am only, in The SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the my moti.m, asking the Government to take House that the hon. member be permitted to step,, It is not for me to say what those steps move his motion in the amended form? should be; but the sooner ste-ps are taken the HoxouRALE J\IIE~IBERS : Hear, hear! better for all concerned. Now, what would the po,sibilities be if we had this £500,000 in the The SPEAKER then put the question in the control of our State 'freasurer? There would not amended form. be the slightest. necessity for retrenchment; The PREMIER, who was received with there would be no necessity for increased taxation cheers, said : I am very glad that the hon. mem of any sort; there would be no neces,ity for the ber for Albert has introduced his motion, and, extra land tax that we are promised ; and there though I cannot support it as it stand,, I will be would be no reduction in the endowment to divi prepared to assist as rr. uch as possible to bring sional boards, municipalities, hospitals, and about an alteration of the present state of affairs. 662 S [Honourable members: Hear, hear!] Everyone Government has announced that he is consider in this Hon>e knows that I was one of the ing the matter of whether something cannot strongest ad ;-ocates of federation. I believed be done to save that industry. That industry thoroughly in federation; I believe in federa is in quite a different positi(Jn to the sugar tirm now. [Honourable members: Hear, hear!] industry, because the people engaged in the Everv hon. member knows that two of t,he nromi business can take their vessels elsewhere, and nent inembers of thepre,entFederftl Goverr;ment, still fi,h in the same waters they are fishing ::\Ir. Bar~ on and Mr. Deakin, were mainly instru in now, or they can go ovPr to a £1Jreign flag, mental in turning the vote in favour of federation and practically defy the Federal Government, in Queensland. Those gentlemen came to Bris but that is not the case with the sugar in bane, and addres,ed an audience of about 3,000 dustry. An inquiry haR been held into an people. They came at a time when the federa industry in which about £200,000 is i!11-ested, tion n1overnent \VftS not very warm in Queens lmt an inquiry into an industry in which land, and there is no doubt that their coming £7,000,000 is invested was refused. That is one induced numbers to join the movement, and phase of the action of the Federal Govern they took, I am sorry to say, a great deal of ment. We find also that all the merchants what thosr. gentlemen "aid, on trust. [Honour doing business :<11 over Australia are in constant able members : Hear, bear!] They said, "VIe conflict with the Federal Government in con will do nothing to injurR your iudustries. \Ve nection with their Customs regulations and will do all we can to fo,rer those industriee." tariff. Personally, I belie Ye that Queensland [Honourable members: Hear, h~ar !] " \V e can work as well under the federal tanff as New will do all we pnssibly can to unite the people South \Vales or Victoria, but it is a tariff that of Australia. \Ve will do nothing at all to h"s caused us a great deal of anxiety so far as cause irritation." Xow, if any Government our finances are concerned. Previously we had has ever camed irritation in Australia, it a high tariff and New South \Vales a low one. is certainly the first Federal Government. They do not like the federal tariff because it is [Honour:.ble members: Hear, hear!] \Ve cer too hif'h ; we, on the other hand, are put about tainly placed faith in the statement of Sir in our financial affairs because it is too low. Edmund Barton th«t he would do everything However, that is a matter which I dare &ay he could to unite the "aried interests of Au' we can get over, but in regard to a big in tralia; but he was no sooner in office than he at d nstry like the sugar industry, which is part once commenced to pas' legislation ad verse to and parcel of the life of the whnle colony, one of the biggest interests of this State. if that is taken out of our hands it will he a very Everyone know' thar, 11utwithstanding the serious thing for (..lneenslanrl. Now we are also modest reque"t of the Government of Queens promised a court of appeal, and what io the land that before legi,lating in regard to the pre paid by the Federal Government, and they in return at the next election members who, if they turn could tax the citizens of Australia. Their find they cannot get justice for their State, will responsibility should not be thrown upon the be prepared to refer the whole matter to the States. They ought to shoulder their own people again. [Mr. HARDACRE : Would you responsibility. The financial problem is a most make it a party question?] l'\ o. I do not think serious one. At present the Federal Government federation should be a party question. It was not have no fimtncial res[Jonsibility at all; their a party question when the referendum was taken. responsibilities are thrown on 'the unfortunate Men from both sides of the House sat together States. The Constitution Act >•ltYS that three and advocated federation, andmembers from both fourths of the Cmtoms revenue shall be returned sides acted together against federation. Federa to the Stntes ; but Queensland got something tion should not be made a party question, but like £20,000 less than her three-fourths last should be left to the electors to decide. I year. I do not suppose the other States will believe that the electors of Queemland, if they make that good. \Ve may protest against it, feel as strongly on the matter at the next and that will be the end of it. I maintain that election as they do now, will return men who, but for the extr>tvagance of the Federal Govern if they cannot alter the present state of things, ment we should have had all our money back. will certainly refer the matter to the electors of \Ve have been flush in spending State money, the State. It may be a retrograde movement to but last year, according to the Auditor· General's go back to the old order nf things, but it must be report, the Federal Government spent on the admitted that we were then self-contained, that transferred departments-Customs, Defence, and we knew what we were doing, and that we kept Post and Telegraphs--£102,000 more than we our finances in fairly good order. I arn not expended in the previous year. I know th> Federal Government can manage affairs better have a change in the Federal Government, andc than the State Government can. ·when the who also wish tP get better terms for the State muvement was started it was said that the States of Queensland. [Mr. RYLAND: You are "agin" could look after their own domestic affairs, and the Government.] I am against the Federal that the Federal Government could take over Government and against federal legislation up external affairs, which they could manage better to the present time. And also, though it than the State Governments. But that has not may not be done at once, if we do not go been the case in Queensland, I am sorry to say, back to the old state of things, the present and that ;,as not been the case in Australia. Constitution will haYe to be amended; but vVe find dissatisfactiun in every State in Aus I feel satisfied that the financial problem tralia at the present time, not for the same will be the most serious problem by and by. reasons we have, but for local reasons of their Either the Federal Government will have to own. I think that instead of passing this take on bigger responsibilities, or else they will motion, we might pass a motion that this have to lesson their responsibilities. If they go House is dissatisfied with the action of the on collecting the duties as they are doing now Federal Government. [Mr. HARDACRE: You £8,000,000 or £9,000,000-and return to us what are against the present Federal Government?] I they please of that money, we should get back say that the prtsent l!'ederal Government have three-fourths of that amount. [An honourable brought about the present state of things. People member: 'I' he Constitution "ays so.] Yes ; but have got dissatisfied with federation a great the fact that we do not get it is owing to the deal; but federation itself, nnder good manage· extravagance of the Federal Government. \Ye ment-under wise guidance-\vould not have spent £102,000 les" than the transferred services caused the disKatisfaction that exist" now. \V e under the l!'ecleral Government cost. And we were also told that the l!'ederal Gm·ernment are plainly told by the Federal Treaourer, in his would take care to collect sufficient revenue to Budget Statement, that he will want more money hand us back what had been collected here, next year than he got last year. He is going to and that they would get sufficient extra money erect a capital somewhere m New :::\outh 'vVales to pay all the federal expenses. \Yell, that ha'' that will reqmre a large amount of money, and not been done. I dare say that if the first we shall have to pay our share of the interest. tariff that was bronght in had been passed there And if we are going to pay a bigger subsidy to would have been more revenue coming to this the British Government, we shall have to pay State; but the Barton Government allowed our share of that. In fact, until some definite· themselves to be bossed by Mr. 'Vatson. The scheme is promulgated by the l!'ederal Govern tariff passed was mainly Mr. \Vatson's tariff. I ment or by the State Governments conjointly, do not say that out of any disrespect to Mr. no State Treasurer will ever be able to tell the 'vV atson, or with any desire to disparage him, House what his income for a year will be. [Mr. for I consider Mr. \Vatson is one of the ablest KmwroN: I told v"u that years ago.] \Ve hM'e men in the Federal Parliament. He has had been told a lot of "things. I believe ttwse things both :\Ir. Barton and Mr. Reid following him, would have been settlPd if we had had a :Federal and they are both willing to make terms Government which had any sympathy with the with him. He is the man whJ cartied his States at all. I say that the present Federal measures-not Mr. Barton or 1Ir. Reid. [Mr. Government and the present Federal Parlia HARDACRE: You are making this a party ques ment have shown no sympathy with the smaller tion.] X ot at all. I am not saying this out of States. Travelling from Brisbane to Sydney, afly disrespect to Mr. \Vatson; but I say that when there is talk about federation, the people the present federal tariff is neither Mr. in Sydney think nothing of the troubles of this Barton's, nor Mr. Reid's, nor the Federal State; it is only the Sydney troubles that Government's tariff ; for anyone who takes concern them. Then, in 1Ielbourne, what do the trouble to read the federal debates will they care about Queensland? It i., their own see that Mr. \Vatson carried all his proposals. troubles that they care about. But there are ~An honourable member: \V hat about the other federations which have proved successes. i:lenate ?] The i:lenate made some alterations in 'vVe know that the Canadian federation proved the t:triff, but not much ; but what they have a great success ; the United States federation done has been for good. They lowered the a greater success. The German federation was duty on machinery, which I think is wise in a also a success; but in South America they new colony, but on the whole the tariff is not were not so successful, and have not progresse1 Mr. Barton's or Mr. Reid's-it is not the tariff so rapidly because they have not got federation. which was first brought in. [Mr. RYLAND: It Instead of trying to bring the various interest• is better.] It may be a better one, but I question together, and trying to bear and forbear, th8 that very much. At all events, because of that l!'ederal Government have adopted a rigid rule, tariff we are suffering in Queensland. 'vV M have and in every case they have offended the different had to impose new taxation, we have had to States. \Vhen the federal elections come on retrench civil servants, >tnd we have had to again, then will be the time to make som~ impose an income tax-all that has been caused alteration, and the only plain way I see-and to a great extent by federation. [Mr. KENKA: I have gi.-en plenty of thought to the matter Y on anticipated a reduced tariff two years ago.] --is to return men who will be pledged to refer Yes; we knew we would suffer to some extent, the whoie matter to a referendum, and I shall do but we did not expect the duty on tea all I possibly can to bring that about. [Honour and kerosene to be taken off, and other big able members: Hear, hear!] reductions being made in the tariff. I Mr. PETRIE (Toombul): It i8 unfortuna.te complain that scant consideration has been that so short a time can be allowed for the dis shown to the States by the Federal Govern cussion of so important a question as the one ment-by the Federal Legislature in their tariff before us-a question which is now occupying and in their legislation-and I have no doubt the minds of nearly every elector in Queensland. that Queensland has suffered more than any It ia a matter we want to seriously consider. I other ~State. For theae reasons I am diS!JOSed to may be termed an anti-federalist myself, but I support an amendtelent. I cannot support the voted not as against federation itself but against present motion, for I cannot see how the Govern the kind of federation we were asked to enter ment can take steps to dissolve the union .. That into. Those people in theNorth who carried the is not a matter for the Government of a State· referendum are now chewing the bitter cud, and it is a matter for the electors, and I shall cer: I would rather have seen this question brought tainly throw in my lot with those who wish to forward by one of those disappointed federa.tion- Separation from [25 SEPTEMBER.] Federal Union. 665 ists. However, the hon. member for Albert has take steps to dissolve the federal union. 'What steppe~ into the breach, and I give him the credit democrat, who understands the situation, can sup of havmg the courage to move such a motion as port a mution of that kind? It is a thing this. ?.Iany people doabt whether there is a way that is not in the hands of the Gnvern out of the difficulty. To decide upon the proper ment, or in the hands of this House. co~rse we shall have to treat the question very The people of Queensland settled this matter, serwusly, and I am e>nly sorry the hon. member and uhe Government have no jurisdiction in the for .Albert di~ not take the course of giving you matter at all. The people of Queensland chose notice, ~fr. Speaker, that be intended to move to enter federation and elected representa the adjournment of the House, instead of bring tives. They practically concurred in electing ing it forward on a private members' afternoon the much-abused-by our own Government when we cannot devote to it more than a coup]~ Federal Government, and we have no jurisdic of hours. I trust the hon. member will approach tion in the matter whatever. And I am not sure the Government, or make some arrangement that this motion could not be ruled out of order. whereby we can have a day Ret apart next week The Premier does not quite agree with the to fully discuss. this very important question, or motion; he would prefer tu pat it in the form of even two days If necessary. It will not be time a vote of want of confidence in the Federal wasted, as it was the other night, on the unem Government. Does not that show the absurdity ployed question, which ought to have been of the whole position? "\Vbat in heaven's name settled atter two, or at most three, speeches had has this House to do with an expression of been made. It is a question with which I hn.ve opinion as to the Federal Government? And every sympathy, but I did not speak upon it what would the Federal Government care? because I object to the time of the country being If we took the Premier's lead in this wasted when we have so much important business matter we would make ourselves the laughing before us. stock of Australia. It has been said that The SPEAKER: Order ! as citizens we have a right to discuss any l\Ir. PETRIE : I intend to say no more ou thing in regard to federation. That is right t?~ subject at present. l\Iy only object in enough; and I have :1othing to say against the rrsmg was to suggest to the bon. member for gentlemen who bPld the meeting last night; but, Albert that he should make some arrangement so far as the State Parliament and the State with the Government whereby a day or two may Government are concerned, I claim t~1at they be "et apart, so that this very important question have nothing to do with this, and to attempt to may be thoroughly thrashed out. pass such a motion as this would be altogether Mr. KIDS'l'ON (RockhamptonJ: I am a exceeding our functions. The hon. member for feder~tioniat who found himself in the painful Albert said this was a big question, and be JJO&Ition, when the question was settled in hoped the House would rise to the occa,ion. I Queensland, of having to oppose federation, be hope the House will rise to the occasion by firing cause the Federal Constitution did an injustice this motion out in a very unmistn.kable manner. to my district and to Northern Queensland. Having said so much, I would be inclined to dis But when the verdict of the people had been miss the subject, recognising thn.t it is simply t"'ken, and they had decided for federation, I baying the moon; but the conduct of the Pre considered that that settled the matter as far as mier in regard to this question of federation for I was concerned. I loyally accepted the verdict the last six months and more, weak and foolish of ~he people of Queensland. although it was and hysterical as it has been, shows that the agamst me. When I saw this motion on the question is going to be discussed ; and I am paper, that it was deoirable that the State Go afraid that I .;annot give th•' Premter even the vernment of Queensland should take steps to poor credit. of consistency which I was ".ble to bring about a separation of Queeoshtnd from give the hon. member for Albert. I have a the federal union, I thought the thing was a number of quotations from the Premier's speech joke. However, judging from the appearance in 1899, when he was trying to induce this House of the hon. member for Albert, from the to pass the Bnabling Bill so that the Federal attitude of the Premier, and from the Constitution might go before the country. fact that a little bit of a public meeting Somebody-I think it was Mr. Browne-twitted has be~n held in Brisbane on the matter, I must the Government with insincerity on the ques rec?gmse that at least s'?~": people are taking it tion, and the Premier declared his earnestness serwusly. As to the crrtiCism of the Co,rier, I and the earne,tness of the Government in the would. ask the hon. member for Albert to pay no matter. .For his part he said, "I propose going attentwn t.o the statement that he is only an through the country to try and induce the obscure private member. That has nothing to people to vote for this Bill "-the Constitu do with the matter at all. Many a very obscure tion Bill. And in what was for him a man has started a very great movement before very long speech-an able speech, too now. There is one credit I can give the hon. he went into detail dealing with almost every member, and it is the only credit I can give him interest in Queensland, n.nd showing- how it -the credit of consistency. He opposed federa would benefit them if they would only enter· tion the first time it was mentioned in this federation. As to the cost of federation, the Rous~; he ?PPOSed it when we were passing the hon. gentleman-be was Treasurer at the time, Enablmg Bill; he refused to submit the ques and a person speaking with authority on finan tion to the people of Queensland; and after cial n.atters-the hon. gentleman went into they had voted m favour of joining the union, elaborate calculation,, and showed bow utterly the. hon ..member voted against recognising foolish the people were who were trying to their verdwt. And after the union has been frighten the people of Queensland from entering consummated he is still showing that be isM much the federation un the score of financial conse opposed to federation as ever he was. The hon. quences. So strong was the position the hon. men;ber, in that regard, reminds me of a man gentleman took up that I interjected from this persistently knocking his head against a stone side, ""\Vhy, we are going to make money out of W:>ll, a:Id who, ;;hen asked what was wrong federation ! " And it anybody would look up the w1th h1m, sa1d, I am doin"' this because I did Premier's speech he will find that if the hon it two years ago, and I meanh to persist in doing gentleman did not sho IV this Home that Queens-. it." That man would be de,erving of just the land was going to make money out of federacion same amount of credit as the hon. member for it was going to have very little to pay on account Albert for his consistency in this matter. This of federation. Then he dealt with the question motion, as I said, asks the State Government to of handing over Customs and excise to the- ·666 Separation from [ASSEMBLY.] Fedem l Union. Federal Government, and said it would be as various Australian States brought together in broad as it was long-that if they altered the one strong federal union. [::\fr. J\IcJ\IASTER: tal'iff so that our people would not have to pay, You told us you were opposed to it until the and our Treasurer wanted it, our people would referendum was taken.] I was strongly opposed have the money in their pockets; and he showed to the :Federal Constitution under which we Jive, that nothing could possibly injure us in that and I worked all I knew, spent my money and matter. Then I remember how carefully he my time, and did the very best I could to pre· pointed out what an enormous arlvantage it vent the people of Central Queen~] and ,lS,enting would be to Central and N"orthern Queensland; to that Constitution, because that Constitution how the Southern farmers had the exclusive did, and does now, a gross injustice to the control of the NMthern markets when Queens people of Central and ::" -,,s, as a, reason against federation, that the with the question whether we should secede Federal Government were extravagant. \Vould from the federation or not. As a matter of fact, that not apply equally to the policy of the Philp the Government of Queensland are taking up Govern<~•ent? But I do not think that the this cry of the financial distress that has con1e extravaganceH of the Philp Government is a upon them through federation simplv as a cloak reason for abolishing our State Government alto to hide their own financhl incapacity [Opposition gether. I say that not one of those things members : Hear, hear!] Simply as a cover by h>tve any connection at all with the question which to shelter themselves against the evil con before ns. Now as to the financial position : sequences that have followed from the mann,·r in I will not enter into details in this matter, which they have rniRmanaged the financial affairs because I do not want to speak at any of Queensland. I showed on a previous occa great length. I hardly think it is neces sion, as fairly >tnd conclusively as it was po,sible sary, but after all the moaning about the for an> member to do, that before tbi., c•Jlony financial disasters brought about by federation, entered the federation, in spite of having enjoyed after the feeble and unworthy advice of the for the four previous years the highest re;·enues Premier and Secretary for Rail ways to the that the col0ny bad ever experienced, yet six unemployed to go to the Federal Government months preceding federation the Treasurer was for redress and relief--[The SECRETARY ]'OR in a worse position by .£400,000 or .£500,000 RAILWAYS: You know we are all Anstralians than he was in the previous December, and that now.] I venture to say that unless I entirely he had actually in those six months piled up a misjudge the character of the hon. gentleman, he deficit of £77,000. In spite of the inconveniences knows that such ad vice was altogether unworthy which have resulted to the colony since federa of him; and all this moaning is unworthy of tion, so far as its financial affairs are concerned, serious discussion. Everybody knew before vet I clam1 that the real cause of the present federation took place that it would involve very deplorable state of affairs is far mnre owing to serious financial changes; everybody knew that the State Government of ~neensland than to it would in vulve serious financial loss. The the Federal Government. And that is not my Promier showed u• before we had gone into opinion only ; I believe it is the opinion of federation at all that an alteration of the tariff every intelligent man who has paid any atten could not mvolve any loss to Queensland, tion to the facts of the case. This is what one hecause if the tariff was lower, and the Treasurer of the best-ii1formed financial writers in Au,tralia ·did not get the money, then the Queensland said about the matter in the Sydney Bulletin of people would be left with it in their pockets, the 17th May, 1902- and if the tariff wag higher, and the State Trea surer did not neecl all the money he got from the The trouble arises ~olely out of tbe fact that the :Federal Treasurer, the Government would be Philp Government (allowing for the fact that postal, telegraph, Customs, and excise expenditure no longer able to remit a corre,pouding amount of taxation, appear in 1he State b:tlance-sheet) is spending at the and the Queensland people would be just where rate of nearly £650,000 a year more than the H~Tnes they were. Speaking bro:tdly, tba.t is exactly and Xelson Government did in '98~abont £200,000 the position to-day. The financial results which extra goes in interest anti £450,000 dribbles a'ivay. As have follow eel the inception of the Common a financial dribbler, Philp has few equals. Qnren~land wealth I do not consider give ground either for has never recovered from his great deed in jumping np the expenditure from £4.024,170 in 1899 to Jt1<,855.531 in surprise or anger, and while I recognise the 19(11. Ttlat ereated tlle great deficit-a ghost tllat has urgent need that exists for better relations ne"Ver beenlai.d since. between the State and the Commonwealth Treasurers, yet everybody m us\ recognise that a I do not take up the position that the F<>deral considerable amount of incidental difficulty was Government have done no wrong, but I do not inevitable. It is quite natural that the new think that the doing right by the Federal Go boot should pinch the Treasurer, but what vernment, ur tba doing wrong by the Federal is wanted is a little patience-perhaps a great GovernmPnt or Parliament, ha' anything what deal more patience-· reasonable and friendly ever to do with the question now before the discussion between the Federal Government and House. It has noth;ng to do with thA question our Government, so as to work uff these pinch of sece~sion, and it iR certainly not a lDatter on ings and inconveniences, which are as little to which tbi' House will express any opinion, if it ·the ad vantage of the Federal Government as consults its own dignity. \Vhatt>ver may be the to our Government. The attitude which the faults of the present Federal Government may be Government of Queensland and too many of exceedingly good reasons fnr the people of their supporters have taken up in rege.rd to the Austritlia changing the Federal Government, Federal Government is altogether unworthy of but they constitute absolutely no argument for them; I feel, as a Queenslander, that it is a the auolition of the union. The real motive discredit to the colony. \Vhen I consider the which underlies all thi, talk about secession is problem which the Federal Treasurer, Sir George that in the Southern part of this State the1 e are Turner, had to grapple with, I am surprised that a number of farmers who object to competition a gentleman like the Premier, who has heen with farmers in the Southern States. I should State Treasurer for years ['!'he PrlEmER: I do liKe to know if the Premier en 29,000 votes, but the great bulk of the anti-feds. action. I trust I shall have an opportunity of did not vote at all. They thought they were continuing my remarks on another occasion. going to destroy federation-to throw a slur [Honourable members : Hear, hear !] upon it. That is one of the reasons we find our se] ves in the difficulty we are in now. The late HoN. A. S. COWLEY: I beg to move the federal electi<'ns in ~ueensland do not represent adjournment of the debate. the opinion of the electors of Queansland at all. Question put and passed. A great many did not understand the position ; The resumption of the debate was made an a great many do not understand it now-how a order for Thursday next. man is going to have dual citizenship-lee a citizen of nne State and a citizen of the Common wealth at the same time; but the time will come At 7 o'clock the House, in accordance 1vith when they will understand it, and that time may Sessional Order, p1·oceeded with Government not be a' far distant as some hon. members business. antiCipate. \Ye may, in the near future, have the opportunity given to the people of LOCAL GOVERNMENT BILL. AuRtralia to say what they think on this question. The hon. member told us there was INTRODUUTION AND FIRST READING. no means of repealing this Federal Constitution The House, in committee, having affirmed the but by civil war. The hon. member probably desirableness of introducing a Bill to con"olidate thought that, because in America it led to civil and amend the laws relating to local authorities, war; but there is no analogy between the posi the Bill was introduced and read a first time. tion of America and the position of the Com The second reading was made an Order of the monwealth. In America it was a Sovereign Day for Tuesday next. Constitution. This is not a Sovereign Constitu tion. This Constitution is the result of an Im perial Act of Parliament. The British Parlia SUPPLY. ment can undo it by a stroke of the pen just as RESU}IPTION: m· Co}ni!TTEE.-VoTE ON they made it. [No, no! and Hear, hear!] This AccocNT. Federal Constitution is simply an Imperial Act, and the Imperial Parliament can repeal it like The TREASURER (Hon. T. B. Cribb, we repeal a Marsupial Act. It is true the Ipswich) moved- Imperial Government would not take action That there be granted to His )'lajesty, on account, for unless public opinion in Australia was constitu the serviceg of the year 1902Ml90~. a further sum not tionally expressed. All the same, the un exceeding £350,000, towards defraying the expenses of doubted right exists with the Imperial Par the various departments and services of the State. liament to do so. Nobody ever doubted the Mr. KIDSTON understood when the Finan Imperial right to dissolve the union with cial Statement was made that they were to have Ireland. Mr. Gladstone, one of the greatest a Stamp Duties Bill, from which the Treasurer statesmen who ever lived, passed the second expected to get £40,000, and the Port Dues Bill, reading of a Bill embodying- that principle. from which the hon. gentleman expected to get Does the hon. g-entleman want further evidence? £10,000. Was the Registration of Firms Bill What can be done with a union of two vital one of those Bills. or were there two other parts of the empire-cannot that be done with financial Bills still to come, and, if so, why were outside colonies'? The British Empire, without they not laid on the table of the House? They an expression of opinion even from the whole of were told that would be the first legislation? the people in the federation of Canada went very near bursting up that union, or at lea't taking The TREASURER: There were two financial one of the States out of it. The Federal Bills yet to be introduced. One was the :B'inance Government of Canada did not keep the pro Bill, which dealt principally with stamp duties, mises made to British Columbia, and British and the other made a slight increase in the port Columbia appealed to the British Parliament; dues. Those were the Bills foreshadowed in his and Canada was given to understand that the interim Financial Statement. He thought the conditions-those which were implied as well as Finance Bill would be introduced very shortly. those expressed-in the Constitution would have It had required a great amount of consideration, to be carried out, or the Imperial Parliament would and that was the reason for the delay. take the ·1pportunityofreconsideringthe question. Question put and passed. [Mr. KIDSTOX : They will never touch the Fede The House re1·umed ; and the CHA!RniA:-- ral Constitution without the consent of Austra reported that the Committee had come to a lia.] The hon. gentleman said it could only be resolution. The resumption of the Committee done by civil war. He said that neither the was made an order for Tuesday ne1>t, and the Commonwealth nor the Imperial Parliament report was adopted. could do it-nothing but civil war. [Mr. Km STON: It cannot be done against the wi~h of the people of Australia.] I say it can be done by WAYS AND MEANS. the consensus of opinion of the people of Aus RESl'}IPTION OF CmmrTTEE, tralia, and I am glad the hon. gentleman is now showing a little intelligence. I was pointing out The TREASURER moved- that there is a variety of ways. The British That towards making good the Supply granted to His Empire is not based on a few persons in office for l\1:aj£~ty on account, for the service of the year 1902- the time being. It is based on the underlying prin 1903, a further snm not exceeding £350,000 be granted ciple, which is very strong in the lives and hearts out of the consolidated revenue fund of Queensland, exclusive of the moneys standing to the credit of the of Britons-the principle which we call respon loan fund account. Rible government ; and responsible government means the embodiment of the wishes of the Mr. KIDSTON asked how long that amount people. And it does not matter two pins what would enable the Government to carry on ? are the means of ascertaining the views of the [The TREASCRER: Two months.) \Vhy was it people, whether through the Federal Parlia that no vote was wanted from the trust and ment or by means of a referendum taken by the itnd special funds or from the loan fund account? several States, the resL1lt will be exactly the The TREASURER: The Government had same, and will justify the Imperial Parliament, sufficient funds in hand on account of trust and if the necessity arises, in taking a certain line of loan at present without asking for further Brisbane Rit·er [25 SEPTEMBER.] Imp1•ovement Biil. 671 supplies. They were not spending so much done and proposed to be done under the scheme. money, and it was not necessary to includt: a The 4th clause provides tnat no action shall be further vote from those accounts in the Bill. brought against the Government for damages Mr. KIDSTON thought it was because the on accouut of the works carried out. The· Government were not spending so much money desire of the Government is to prevent un that they did not want another vote at the necessary and vexatious legal actions for present time from the lo>tn fund. At the same damages. The Government may possibly be time there was at least as much money on the assailed with claims for damages for exorbitant Estirr,ates as last year, and if the Government amounts. Unfortunately, people have an idea were not spending as much money was that that they can make claims against t.he Govern because they had not got the money? ment for large sums, and those holding these The 'rREASURER: The amount asked for views put very high values on their properties, now was preci,ely the same as was asked for in though they themselves do nothing to improve the second Appropriation Bill last year, and the their value, and contribute nothing towards the first Appropri>ttion Bill this year asked for the revenue or towards the cost of improvement of S9.me amount as was asked for in the first the river, by reclamation and other works; they Appropriation Bill last year. let them lie idle, and expect compensation for improvements which they have not assisted to l\Ir. DUXSFORD (Charters Toweni: In view bring about. In the case of divisional boards of the possibility of something being done in the owners of land have to pay rates, which another place, >11ld the Income Tax Bill being help to make the roads, so that they may have thrown out, and a dissolution taking place, would access to their properties; but in the case of two months' supply be sufficient? LThe HOME owners of river properties they contribute SECRETARY: "Sufficient unto the day is the evil nothing. A feeling exists that because land thereof."] fronts a river they should put a very high value The TREASDRER: If further funds were on that land, but, as a matter of fact, required he bad no doubt the Treasurer for the land owned by private people on a river time being would ask for a further sum on only goes to high-water mark. The owners account. If he was relegated to another bench of such land cannot put a stake in or do he had no doubt the House would grant the anything with such property below high necessary Supply to the new Treasurer. water mark, although they are under the im (tuestion put and passed. pression they can. In cases where properties The House resumed ; the resolution was re have been injured by the work carried on, I do ceived and agreed to, and the Committee ob nut wish to deprive the owners of reasonable tained leave to sit again on Tuesday nex~. damages, but I do not want to encourage claims for exorbitant damages. I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. APPROPRIATION BILL No. 2. Mr. KIDS TON: I am not very well acquainted ALL STAGES. with the circumstances which have given rise to this Bill, but if thAre is any danger of the Go A Bill, founded on the foregoing resolutions, vernment being made liable to heavy damages to was introduced, and passed through all its stages owners of properties who have certain rights, or without discussion or amendment, and was supposed rights, in the Hamilton Reach, I have ordered to be transmitted to the Council for no objection to the Bill passing. But it seems their concurrence by message in the usual form. to me that the last clause of the Bill is really the sting, and it looks to me that it is drafted BRISBAKE RIVER IMPROVEMENT in a way which is much more favourable to BILL. the Government than to the landholders down there. I do not know any of thPse landholders, SECOND READING. and I do not know the circumstances of The TREASURER : This is a Bill to validate the matter, so I speak somewhat diffidently. the improvements which have lately been effected The hon. gentleman told us that some of in the Brisbane River and harbour. By section these owners had done nothing to improve 66 of the Harbour Boards Act of 1892 it is pro their property, and yet their properties might vided that before harbour works of any character be rated at a very fancy value; that they are commenced plans of the Hame shall be lodged might sue the Government for verv ],.rge sums with, and be approved of by, the Marine Board, of money, and get much of the increased value and that after such approval they shall be from the very improvements which the Govern sanctioned by the Governor in Couucil. Since ment had carried out. The hon. gentleman the death uf the late Portmaster, Captain seems to think that that would be very Almond, some doubts have arisen as to whether unfair, and if that is what the Bill provides the mode of procedure which has been adopted for I would quite agree with him. But, is correct. The principle of the Bill is very unless I misunderstand the hon. gentleman, well expressed in the preamble, lines 14 to 17, that is not what the Bill provides. It provides where it is stated that- that the Government shall pay no damages. The Whereas doubts ha;ve arisen as to the powers of the last clause, for instance, states that no action shall Government of the State and the said l\fariue Board in lie against the Government on account of any the eous.trnction of ~uch walls and works, and it is deprivation of access to the river. But it may expedient to set all such doubts at rest. be a very legitimate ground of complaint on the Some of the works are now in course of con part of a person who has a river frontage that structi.m, in accordance with the scheme which be is being shut off from this river frontage by was devised for the improvement of some work the Government are carrying out; [7'30 p.m.] the river and harbour, the plans and it may seriously depreciate the value of the of which were prepared by Mr. property. If the public are carrying out these Lindon Bates, and laid on the table of this House improvements for the public advantage, the in December, 1898. 'l'he money to carry on these public ought to pay to any individual who works has been voted by Parliament each year is injured some compensation for the injury in succession, but, on account of doubts having they do him for their own advantage. lf arisen as to whether the procedure had been the public are going to reap the advantage, correct, it has been thought advisable to have and the individual is going to suffer the loss, those doubts set at rest by a special validating it will not be fair. The clause seems to provide Act. The 3rd clause validates all the work against all possible contingencies. It is a sort -B72 BTisbane River [ASSEMBLY.] Improvement Bill. of drag-net clause, which will prevent persons liament. Some time ago we passed a law owning properties with a river frontage, where by which the Government were protected the Government are at work on the Brisbane from being harassed with actions for damages River, from claiming comp~nsation for any by reason of the closing of the Victoria Bridge. damage to the property whatever or any depre It might be said to be a drawback and disad ciation in its value. Surely those people have vantage to owners of land on the banks of the rights which ought to be protected by the House Brisbane River above the bridge that all access even against the Government, and they ought not of shipping should be denied to them ; but the to be left to the merciful consideration of the Go advantages t0 the community as a whole out vernment. I admit that, in carrying out those weigh the disadv~ntages or possible disadvan works, the Government may very much improve tages to sonte individuals. This is a kind of the value of many of those properties, and that with enactment that is always contained in a measure out some such proviRion as this the owners may of this sort, and without such an enactment there demand from the Government compensation, might as well be no validating Bill at all. It is ignoring altogether the fact that they have in the public interest that the Government received a benefit which wipes out the damage should be protected ag-ainst actions which have many time' over. But, whether benefited or no merit in them. [Mr. KmsTON: Is this ex not, the last clause equally excludes them from cathed'ra?] I am stating wh ·t is the fact, having any claim against the Government for whether it is ex cathednt or not. If damage damages. If that is the result, I cannot agree has not been done up to the present time, with it. \Vhy not adopt some betterment we have no right to give a chance to persons principle, and then the relative advantage and to come in hereafter and say they have disadvantage accruing to any property caused by suffered damage-or to give those who purchase the work carried on by the Government could from the present owners the rig-ht to claim be adjudicated upon, and where the loss was damages at some future time. [l\fr. Kms-roN: greater than the benefit the owners would You are casting back four years.] You have be entitled to compensation, and where the always to cast back in cases of this sort. I reverse was the case they would be refused assure the hon. gentleman that there is no know compensation. And it must be remembered ledge at the present time of any persons likely that the Bill is retrospective as well as anti to claim that they have suffered injury by these cipatory. I am not wanting to insist that works. [Mr. DrBLEY: Then arrangements have anything should be put into the Bill that will been made very lately-since yesterday.] Yes, restrict the hands of the Government in effec recently. I am stating the fact. \Vhen a work tively carrying out improvements, nor am I confers undoubted benefit on a number of per wanting to give freeholders along the river front sons who have property on the banks of the undue power to embarrass the Government with r1ver, I think it would be very unfair to leave unfair and exorbitant claims; but I do think the the Government open to claims for damages. House, in passing a Bill of this nature, which Hon. members on the other side sometimes talk applies to the past as well as to the future, should about unearned increment--about it being un provide that compensation should be paid to a desirable that persons should gain unearned man for injury done to his property. Although increment at the expense of the public, I cannot say how it should be done, I think that and here are proprietors who say in effect, in committee the fairness and good sense of the "\Ve have suffered no damage;" but some House will insist upon some such provision being speculator might buy these lands and start some made in the Bill. works or do something with the lands for the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Sir A. express purpose of giving them a claim against Rutledge, "1Iamnoa): The hon. member is un the Government. It is very undesirable that necessarily alarming -himself as to the power the Government should be exposed to actions of contained in the 14th clause of the Bill. As far this sort; and I see no reason for hon. members back as 1898 the public were informed, through to cry out for the protection of those particular the action of the Government, that it was in persons who own land near to where the works tended to carry out works of this nature, and are being carried out before those persons begin plans of the proposed works were laid on the to cry out themselves. There cannot be a doubt table of the House. Nobody made any objection that it is absolutely necessary, in order to make or intimated that their rights would be inter a proper harbour of the Brisbane River, that fered with. As a matter of fact there were not these works should be carried out. Had this more than two persons at the outside whose Bill been brought in as a prospective measure rights could be interfered with, and in those when the plans were laid on the table, I do not cases the Treasurer has already made arrange suppose anyone would have raised any objection; ments for compensating them. There are no and I do not think the hon. member need now claims now that we know of. It would be apprehend any likelihood of any injury being highly improper to so draft the Bill that fifty done to any person by the passing of the Bill. years hence persons might come in with Mr. CAMPBELL (Moreton): I think the claims and have all sorts of actions tried. House will be at one with the Attorney-General [Mr. KIDSTON: You might limit the time.] I in his claim that it is a desirable thing to have do not think that would be a good thing. It these important improvements put on a basis would be inviting persons not now conscious of that the people generally can understand, but I any damage likely to arise to hereafter make up take it that it is also a fair thing to consider, in their minds that they have sustained some carrying out these improvements, those persons damage, and come against the Government for who are being made to suffer damage for the damages. And who is to be the judge as to general good. The hon. gentleman has stated whether they have suffered da:1mge or not? that, as far as he knows, there are only one or The question would have to be thrashed out at two claims, and practically' based his argument very great exnense to the parties before a judge on the very few people interested in the matter. and a jury. [1\Ir. KIDSTON : A good job for the I take it that the plans lodged in 1898 included the legal profession.] We cannot consider the legal cutting off of the corners of the river, as well as profession in a matter of this sort. (Laughter.) the erection of training walls, and I would ask The great object is to prevent vexatious actions if it is a fair thing to exclude people who are against the Government. After all, there must actually losing their land by the cutting off of be a certain amount of injury suffered by these corners from having any compensation at some person in the community by the pas the hands of the Government at all? I take it sage of every law enacted by this Par· that the community benefit by having a better B1·isbane RiveJ' [25 SEPTEMBER.] ImproL·ement Bill. 673 waterway much more than the individnals who that those words are wide enough to co.-er bought this property with water frontages in everything done up to the present in the the past, and those people are entitled to con· carrying out of the plans which have been sideration at the present time. I have in my presented to Parliament. Further than that, mind a case-I do not know whether it has been I consider that clause 4 will entirely cut out squared up in any way-the case of the foundry the rights that riparian owners have under the works on Kangaroo Point-Evans, Anderson, common law-rights recognised under the Har and Phelan. A large amount of that point has bour Boards Act of 1892, where it is '"'pressly already been taken away, and I know it has stated that, if any land is required for any interfered with those works considerably. It of these works-and hon. members will notice appears to me that the works will have to that under this Bill power is given to enla,rge be removed if the plan is to be carried out. thPse training-walls, so that it is an indefinite [The ATTOR"'EY-GE:-.rERAL: This Bill only deals sort of thing- altogether; but under the Harbour with training-walls.] I may be Boards Act of 1802, when land is reqnired, it is [8 p.m.] wrong, but the pre&mble reads- resumed under the Public \Vorks Resurnptions " \Vhereas in order to improve the Act of 1878. Under that Act notice is given of port of Brisbane by rendering the same safer to resumptions, and a valuation is made. If the navigation, and increasing the facilities for the ::>wner of the land is dissatisfied with the value passage of vessds up and down the River Bris put upon his land, or the property resumed, he bane, it has become necessary to construct in the has the opportunity of going to arbitration. If said river training-walls and other works appur on that arbitration be is not satisfied, he then tenant thereto in accordance with reports and has the power to go to law; but uncier this Bill plans from time to time presented to Parlia· he is cut out entirely from any of those remedies, ment." ::>J ow, an inherent part of the plan and I consider that we ought to be very jealous which was presented to Parliament in 1898 was in guarding the rights of pri .-ate individuals, the removal of the corners. [The ATTORNEY· even although the works that have to be done GENERAL : This Bill deals only with train are to be nf great advantage to the public ing-walls. Look at clause 4.] I do not generally. [The AT'l'ORNEY-GENERAL: Read the know what "increasing the facilities for Brisbane Bridge Act ; that is very much more the pas3age of vessels up and down the stringent than this.] river" means if it do os not mean the removal J¥lr. PET1UE: This seems a very simple Bill, of those corners. ['rhe SECRETARY POR RAIL· and I do not blame the Government for trying WAYS: As far as training-walls are concerned.] to protect themselves as far as possible, and I \Vhat i" meant by the reference to the plans must congratulate them upon trying to Improve lodged in 189il? [The ATTORNEY-GENEHAL: The the Brisbane River. It is all very well for the Bill does not mention the plans.] [Mr. KmsToN: Attorney-General to say that this only deals Look at the definition of "training-walls,. in with the training-walls, but there are creeks clause 2.] \Vel!, if the contention of the Attorney connected with the Brisbane River. There is General is correct, I take it that anything con· one matter I touch upon with great diffidence in nected with the removal of corners will he dealt connection with the Doughboy Creek. It is in with on different lines. [The ATTORNEY· the electorate of the hon. member for Bulirn ba, GENERAL: Certainly; and paid for.] I do not and he is aware of the facts. About 4 miles np know that the other provision is fair either. that creek there are brickworks which have had I do not know anybody who is particularly great difficulty in getting punts up since the con interPsted in land on the river bank at the struction of the training-walls, and, if this work Hamilton, but I know that they are absolutely goes on, they will notbeabldo get punts up at all. cut off. [The ATTOHNEY-GEXERAL : "Other Thi,, party is entitled to some consideration. I works appurtenant thereto " covers that.] Any am not going to oppose the second reading of the person who is damnified should certainly receive Bill, but, at the san,e time, I agree with the fair compensation in a matter of this kind, but hon. member for Moreton in regard to the large clause 4 absolutely absolves the Government foundry at Kangaroo Point. Those people have from any claim for compensation. There must been considerably hum bugged over this matter. have been some hig fear in the mind of the Go It was stated that the Government were going vernment when they brought in a proposal of to resume their land. They have large contracts this kind, and we ought to have more light on in hand, and have been expecting the Govern the subject before agreeing to it. I take it that ment to come down upon them at any time. the country doe,, not want to injure any member When people have spent large sums of of the community in that way. money in erecting works, they should be in Mr. HAWTHOR:'\ (Enogge>·a): I quite agree formed a r"asonahle time beforehand of the with the intention of validating what has been intention of the Governme,lt to resume their done in the past as far as the training-walls lands, because it places them in a very awk themselves are concerned, because I consider that ward position in connection with undertak this system of training-walls is going to be of ing contracts. [The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: This immense importance to the Brisbane River and Bill does not touch Messrs. Evans, Anderson, facility in the preventing of floods in the future. and Phelan.] I know that. The hon. gentle But it seem• to me, with all due deference to the man says that the Bill deals only with retaining opinion of the Attorney-General, that this Bill walls, but I contend that, if it is passed in its is intended to scoop in all sorts of injuries that present form, it will relieve the Government of have been done, and are likely to be done all liability in regard to vested rights. [The in the future, in connection with the improve SECRETARY l<'OR RAILWAYS: 2\.lessrs. Evans, ment of the port of Brisbane. The inter Anderson, and Phelan are perfectly satisfied; pretation of "training-walls," in clause 2, they have told me so.] I will support the second covers "all banks, reclamations of land, buoys, reading, although I want to see justice done to beacons, and other works in connection with all those who are interested in the Brisbane such walls and appurtenant to the same or River or the creeks rnnning into it. any of them " ; and then clause 4 goes on to say that no action is to lie for damage already Mr. RYLA::- suction pipe. Then they must remember that deficient ventilation. The company, under this ventilation was al way• far more desirable when Bill, will have a property which was equal, if the level was being put in than at any other it did not excePd, in area the whole of the land time-not so much so when they had got on which payable gold was being obtained in their communications. It would be perfectly Gympie, and they wonld be isolated in a 200- impossible to get it in this imtance, even acre paddock, so that there would be no possi if the clause was carried, providing for two bility of making any connection with the neigh shafts to be sunk, because though they could sink bouring claims for the purpose of ventilation. at the rate of 100 feet a month at Charters Therefore, it was the duty of the Committee Towers, they could not do so at Gympie. to safeguard the interests of the shareholders One gentleman who had a great deal of expe and miners who would work in the mine rience on Gympie tnld him that the averag-e rate by providing for sufficient means of ventilation. of sinking these did not exceed 60 feet It was not possible to prospect, or to ventilate, [9 p.m.] a month. In that case, it would or to safeguard the interests of 'the take six years to sink the shaft, and [9·30 p.m.] working miners with one shaft in if they sank 100 feet a month, it would take · 200 acres. He thought the Premier about five years. It would be absurd to put knew of one or two co.ses where land had not been that other shaft within 300 fe~t of the first, properly prospected, and where a .whole district and then extend the level another 300 feet. had been kept back by the dog-m-the-manger Section 214 of the Mining Act provided for policy of the proprietors in not providing proper a sufficient supply of fresh air, so that it did not ventilation, and that might be the case if this matter to the miners whether thot supply was company got a monopoly. Their main aim given by one shaft or by a dozen shafts. would not be to prospect so much, as it would Mr. RYLAND : A second shaft was necessary be to make dividends for themselves, ::md he did for the life and hafety of the miners, and it was not blame them for that ; but he blamed the also necessary for prospecting the ground. It Government for locking up such a large area of was all very well to quote the Act with refer land and giving privileges which they would not ence to the supply of air, and to say that they give to other mining men. had mining inspectors ; but the inspectors did The SECRETARY :B'OR MINES : If he not always enforce the Act. If there was onlr one thought for one moment that the lives of the shaft, while the air might be of good quali.ty, it Gympie minerR would be in danger by the omis would be hot, and it made a very great differ sion of this clause, he would not accept the ence to the men working below whether the air amendment. If the company found gold and was cool or hot. In the event of there being wanted to work the whole of the lease, they only one shaft, and that shaft was wrecked would have to put down very likely four shafts, through an accident, what means of escape ann why prevent them from getting sufficient would there be for the men below? He certainly capital to put a working shaft down, by compel thought the clause should be retained if for no ling them to put clown another shaft? They other reason than that a great deal more pro might get ventilation much cheaper and quicker specting would be done by sinking a second shaft by connecting with other mines, or it would be than by crosscutting or driving. more economical to get patent fans. Sinking Mr. LTNDLEY (Wide Bay) said he had con another shaft would mean that double the capi sulted a number of Gym pie people who were con tal would be required. He thought they conld siderably interested in the Bill, and in their opinion trust the inspector to see that this shaft was a second shaft was not necessary. He presumed properly ventilated, and that the ground would the intention was to put down a four-chambered be worked in a manner that the lives of the shaft, and he had been told that that would miners would not be endangered. satisfactorily ventilate the mine. On the second Mr. MAXWELL (Bu1'ke) thought the second reading of the Bill no mention had been made of shaft was the main thing in the Bill. From his a second shaft, the provision for which had been experience of mining, while they got certain inserted at the last minute. Hon. members ventilation by artificial means, that ventilation opposite at that time professed that they "onld was not of the same character as that which be perfectlv satisfied if the company put down a travelled through a oecond shaft. deposit of £10,000 as a guarantee of their bone~ Mr. J. HAMILTON: The hon. member, ::\Ir. fides. Supposing the company was compelled to Dunsford, spoke about locking up land_ It was put down a second shaft, there was nothing to the other way about. By inducing those eompel them to connect the two shafts. There speculators to sink the shaft they were unlocking was no doubt that if the company found payable land which had been locked up ever since the gold they would put down a second shaft. He discovery of Gympie. Hon. members must thought they should accept the amendment_ rec Mr. KERR (Barcoo) thought it shoulrl be Mr. MULCAHY claimed the right, and in compulsory in Queensland in any deep mine that tended to fight for that right, to represent the there should be two shafts. There was bound to miners of Gympie there this evening, and if he be a volume of water to be brought up, and an was told that he had not that right he would accident might happen to the pumps and the resent it. mine be flooded and no means of escape for the The CHAIRMAN: Order! I can assure the men. Men who ought to be physically strong senior member for Gympie that he was not :>nd able became completely broken down hy specially in my e:y~ when I made th~t r~~eren?e working in deep mines nnder unhealthy comli to tedions repetitiOn; but I am JUStified m tions. He thoug·ht the members for Gym pie and makin;>" it because undoubtedly there has been other members had made ont a good case, and he a great de::ol of tedions repetition in this dis hoped the Committee would stick to the clause. cussion. Mr. KIDSTON thought that all ttJe evidence Mr. MULCAHY: Not a single hon. member which had come before the Committee was in on the opposite side had attempted to sho~ t~at favour of keeping the clause in the Bill. There a second shaft was not necess::ory for ventilatwn might eYen be some justification for the Council purpo,es, nor could any of them take np that striking tt1e clause out if it was claimed that it position. He held that it was absolutely neces was going to penalise the company in uny way, sary in the interest of the miners, that a second or if the retPntion of the cluuse wculd seriously shaft should be sunk, and that no additional interfere with the prospects of the company c~>pital would be required for that purpose, as going on with the first shaft. Did anyone believe the syndicate would be able to smk It out of that a cl a use which provided that a second shaft profits. should be sunk twelve months after th, first shaft The SECRETAHY :FOR MINES: Before bad been stmk 4,000 feet and payttble stone was the hon. member for Gyrnpie c·tme found-did anyone believe that another shaft [10·30 p.m.] into Parliament, there were a good would in any way interfere with the prospects of many mining men in the House, and the company? He thought the Uornmittee should the right" of the miners were as well conserved insist on the clause being kept in the Bill. in the early days a" they were now. It w~s mo~t Mr. BURROWS: A second shaft was abso desirable that this field should be tested m this lutely necessary in this case, because in the way and why impose conditions that would event of an accident blocking the shaft, they pre;ent that? He was just as anxious for the would be unable to get sufficiently safety of the miners as the hon. n1ember for [10 p.m.] powerful machinery to get the men Gvmpie. out of the mine" It bad been proved "Mr. RYLAXD again contended that two on Charters Towers that it was impossible to !0hafts werA necessary. work large areas of ground with one shaft on ::\Ir. LE SIN A ( Clermont) contended that if account of the necessity of providing the men throuo-h want of ventilation a holocaust occurred with fresh air. The clause was necessary, in thi;mine, the Government would be responsible. because there was no doubt that it was the The only prectical mine~ in the Upper House, ~be intention of the company to float the ground into Hon. Lewis Thomas, said that both for ventila four companies by and by. The contention tion and for the safety of the men two shafts that, if the extra shaft was insisted upon, it should be sunk. would prevent them sinking the first shaft, was Question-That the amendment of the Legis ridiculous, because they had only eighteen lative Council omitting clause 5 be agreed to months to form their company and sink put; and the Committee divided:- 4,000 feet in a place where mining men said there were no indications that there was gold. .A.Y.t<::s, 26. }Ir. Barnes ~Ir. P. J. Leahy It appeared to him thqt the only reason why the Boles ,, Lindley amendment was proposed to be accepted was Hridges , Lyons that the Minister was a very humble and kind , Carnpbell }Iackintosh sort of gentleman, and he had been subject to Cowlev ;HcMaster pressure from outside. In that instance he was , T. B. ciribb ll'Ioore inclined to be too kind a"nd too reasonable. He " Dalrymple O'Connell Den ha m , , Paget was sorry that the Minister had not shown , Fox Vetrie sufficient backbone to stick to what he must ,. Foxton ,. Philp know '\Vas nf:cessarv. Dr. Garde Sir A. Rnt!edge l\Ir. J. HAMILTOK : The objecti0n to }ir. J. Hamilton ~Ir. Stodart sinking only one shaft was that tlJPre was dm,ger .. Hanran , Story to the miner, but he recollected no instance in Telle;·s: Mr. Paget and }ir. Story. which a miner had lost his life through the absence No:~<:s, 22. of a second shaft. The clause in the Act providing }fr. Airey ~1r. Kerr for the 'entilation of mines afforded ample Barber Kids ton security to the miners that their interpsts would Kurrows Lesina , C )\\'ap Jfartin be studied. , Dibley :J.'Iaxwell Mr. CO\VAP: The clause which it was now , Dunsford 3IcDonnell sought to delete had been inserted unanimously Grant ., 1Inlcahy on the ground that it would not be possible to 1i\>~. Hamilton Xorman work so deep a mine from one shaft, becau