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Minutes Have Been Seen by the Administration) 立法會 Legislative Council LC Paper No. CB(4)1562/17-18 (These minutes have been seen by the Administration) Ref : CB4/PL/TP/1 Panel on Transport Minutes of special meeting held on Tuesday, 9 January 2018, at 8:30 am in Conference Room 1 of the Legislative Council Complex Members present : Hon Frankie YICK Chi-ming, SBS, JP (Chairman) Hon LAM Cheuk-ting (Deputy Chairman) Hon Tommy CHEUNG Yu-yan, GBS, JP Hon Jeffrey LAM Kin-fung, GBS, JP Hon CHAN Hak-kan, BBS, JP Hon WONG Kwok-kin, SBS, JP Hon Mrs Regina IP LAU Suk-yee, GBS, JP Hon Paul TSE Wai-chun, JP Hon Claudia MO Hon Michael TIEN Puk-sun, BBS, JP Hon Steven HO Chun-yin, BBS Hon WU Chi-wai, MH Hon YIU Si-wing, BBS Hon Charles Peter MOK, JP Hon CHAN Chi-chuen Hon LEUNG Che-cheung, SBS, MH, JP Dr Hon KWOK Ka-ki Dr Hon Helena WONG Pik-wan Dr Hon Elizabeth QUAT, BBS, JP Hon POON Siu-ping, BBS, MH Dr Hon CHAING Lai-wan, JP Ir Dr Hon LO Wai-kwok, SBS, MH, JP Hon CHUNG Kwok-pan Hon Alvin YEUNG - 2 - Hon Andrew WAN Siu-kin Hon HO Kai-ming Hon Wilson OR Chong-shing, MH Hon CHAN Chun-ying Hon LUK Chung-hung Hon LAU Kwok-fan, MH Dr Hon CHENG Chung-tai Hon KWONG Chun-yu Hon Jeremy TAM Man-ho Members absent : Hon CHAN Han-pan, JP Dr Hon Fernando CHEUNG Chiu-hung Hon CHU Hoi-dick Dr Hon Junius HO Kwan-yiu, JP Hon Tanya CHAN Hon Kenneth LAU Ip-keung, BBS, MH, JP Public Officers : Agenda item I attending Mr Frank CHAN Fan, JP Secretary for Transport and Housing Ms Mable CHAN, JP Commissioner for Transport Mr Kevin CHOI, JP Deputy Secretary for Transport and Housing (Transport) 2 Miss Ann CHAN Principal Assistant Secretary for Transport and Housing (Transport) (Special Duties) Ms Stella LEE Assistant Commissioner for Transport/ Management and Paratransit Agenda item II Dr Raymond SO Wai-man, BBS, JP - 3 - Under Secretary for Transport and Housing Mr Tony LI Yeuk-yue Principal Assistant Secretary for Transport and Housing (Transport) 2 Mr Samson LAM Sau-sang Assistant Commissioner/ Planning Transport Department Mr SHEA Tin-cheung Chief Engineer / Transport Planning Transport Department Mr Christopher CHIU Hak-pui Principal Transport Officer / Management Transport Department Attendance by : Agenda item II invitation DAB Mr CHUNG Kin-fung Deputy Spokesperson of DAB The Lion Rock Institute Mr NG Kin-wah Event Officer Public Transportation Think Tank of Hong Kong Mr CHAN Tik-yiu EXECUTIVE Designing Hong Kong Mr PAUL Zimmerman CEO Hong Kong Taxi Owners' Assn. Ltd. Mr WONG Po-keung Chairman - 4 - The Civic Party Mr Michael YUNG Ming-chau Deputy Spokesperson (Transportation) The Young Civics Mr Steve CHEUNG Kwan-kiu District Developer of the New Territories West Tai Wo Motors LTD Mr Aaron NG Hoi-shan Vice Chairman Liberal Party Ms TSANG Cheuk-yi Member Hong Kong Future Road study Mr Quentin CHENG Member Hong Kong Land Transport Council Mr TANG Chi-keung Secretariat New People's Party and Civil Force Mr YIU Ka-chun Representative Labour Party Mr CHIU Yan-loy 社區幹事 Shatin Commons Mr AU Ho-yin Member of Shatin Commons Taxi Drivers and Operators Association Mr NG Yip-pui Director General Miss HO Ka-yau - 5 - 中西區交通關注組 Mr FUNG Kar-leung 召集人 陳君寶先生 Mr KAN Siu-kei Mr TANG Ka-piu 黃遠康先生 The Federations of Hong Kong & Kowloon Labour Unions Mr CHU Hong-chung Social Affairs Officers The Kowloon Motor Bus Co. (1933) Ltd. Mr Addie LAM Deputy Head of Communications and Public Affairs Department Motor Transport Workers General Union Mr CHAN Siu-wah Chairman Public Transport Research Team Mr HON Ben Chairman Hong Kong Public Transport Concern Group Mr LAM Yui Him Spokesperson Clerk in attendance : Ms Sophie LAU Chief Council Secretary (4)2 Staff in attendance : Miss Joyce CHING Senior Council Secretary (4)2 - 6 - Ms Jacqueline LAW Council Secretary (4)2 Miss Mandy LAM Legislative Assistant (4)2 Action I. Public Transport Fare Subsidy Scheme LC Paper No. CB(4)360/17-18(01) - Administration's paper on Public Transport Fare Subsidy Scheme LC Paper No. CB(4)448/17-18(01) - Submission dated 5 January 2018 from Hong Kong Public Light Bus Owner & Driver Association (Chinese version only) Action Briefing by the Administration At the invitation of the Chairman, Secretary for Transport and Housing ("STH") briefed members on the proposed Public Transport Fare Subsidy Scheme ("the Scheme"), details of which were set out in the Administration's paper (LC Paper No. CB(4)360/17-18(01)). The Administration's paper set out, among others, the coverage and operational arrangement of the Scheme. Discussion Implementation timetable of the Scheme 2. In response to Mr LAU Kwok-fan's enquiry on the implementation timetable of the Scheme, STH responded that the Administration aimed to seek funding approval for the Scheme from the Finance Committee ("FC") of the Legislative Council as soon as possible with a view to implementing the Scheme within a year after obtaining the approval. The Administration anticipated that the Scheme could be - 7 - rolled out in first quarter of 2019. STH supplemented that implementation of the Scheme entailed substantial preparatory work because it would involve many different service providers. Financial implication of the Scheme 3. Mr POON Siu-ping was concerned about the financial implication of the Scheme. He opined that means test should be applied to the Scheme to ensure prudent use of public money. Mr POON noted from paragraph 2 of Annex 3 of the Administration's paper that the recurrent expenditure for manpower and administrative cost in 2018-19 would be around $45 million while the recurrent expenditure from 2019-20 onwards would be around $69 million. Considering that the manpower and administrative cost should be lowered after commencement of the Scheme, Mr POON enquired about the projected increase of $24 million in annual recurrent expenditure as quoted above. 4. STH said that while introducing means test to the Scheme would have its own merits, it would inevitably increase the administrative costs and cause inconvenience to the public. STH explained that the main consideration when designing the Scheme was to make it simple, easy to understand and operate so that the Scheme could be rolled out as soon as possible to benefit the commuters. Moreover, commuters would not have to apply for subsidy under the Scheme and that the collection of subsidy would be simple. STH supplemented that measures would be introduced to minimize the risks of abuse, for example, the Administration would analyze the usage data under the Scheme and follow-up on abuse cases, if any. As for the recurrent expenditure mentioned by Mr POON above, STH advised that the projected cost for 2019-20 onwards would be the full year operating cost of the Scheme while that for 2018-19 was not calculated on full year basis since the Scheme was expected to be implemented in first quarter of 2019. Subsidy level of the Scheme 5. Noting that the Administration would provide fare subsidy for commuters if their monthly public transport expenses exceeded $400 a month, Mr LUK Chung-hung asked about the rationale for setting the threshold at such level. Mr LUK opined that subsidy should be provided for commuters spent over $10 daily on public transport, and thus he asked the Administration to consider lowering the monthly threshold to $300. He then asked about the financial implication of lowering the threshold to the level he suggested above. - 8 - 6. STH advised that the Administration's policy objective of introducing the Scheme was to relieve the fare burden of commuters who travelled on local transport services for daily commuting and whose public transport expenses were relatively high (e.g. commuters who resided in remote areas). Having regard to the policy objective mentioned above, the monthly threshold of $400 was considered appropriate. STH further advised that, based on the current proposal, it was anticipated that over 2.2 million commuters could benefit from the Scheme. That said, Mr LUK Chung-hung's suggestion to benefit more commuters as far as possible was noted. STH assured that the Administration would closely monitor the operation of the Scheme upon its implementation, including the collection of data related to the Scheme, analysis on the travelling pattern of commuters and investigation of abuse cases, if any. A review would commence around a year after the Scheme's implementation. Concerns about parallel traders benefiting from the Scheme 7. Mr Michael TIEN expressed grave concerns about abuse by the parallel traders. Mr TIEN said that apart from keeping the Scheme simple and easy to understand and operate, the Administration should ensure proper use of public money and be mindful of possible abuses. To avoid abuse by parallel traders, Mr TIEN suggested the Administration to consider mandating the entitlement to subsidy by each commuter under one designated Personalised Octopus card only. Noting that the Administration would conduct a review around one year after the implementation of the Scheme, Mr TIEN also requested the Administration to provide statistics on the number of Octopus cards with more than two daily trips to and from Lo Wu or Lok Ma Chau stations before and after the implementation of the Scheme for comparison so as to ascertain the impact of the Scheme on the travelling pattern of commuters. 8. STH noted members’ concern about the prudent use of public money. STH advised that even if it was assumed that the actual public transport expenses of parallel trades were the highest among all, the number of Octopus card users with monthly public transport expenses exceeding $2000 was still minimal, i.e.
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