Thursday Volume 567 12 September 2013 No. 49

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 12 September 2013

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1137 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 1138

infrastructure and the rest of the railway network. It is House of Commons essential that we carry on investing in rail services in other parts of the country and, over the next spending Thursday 12 September 2013 review, Network Rail plans to spend some £37.5 billion on the current railway network. The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): PRAYERS The Secretary of State was forced this week to launch a so-called fightback with a piece of expensive and self- justifying research from KPMG on HS2, because he [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] has lost control of the budget and of the arguments, including the need to travel at speeds in excess of 250 mph. It is about time that we replaced HS2 with a Oral Answers to Questions thoroughly researched and prepared integrated transport strategy for all regions, including , and covering air, road, rail and communications links. When will he TRANSPORT cancel that project and produce a decent overall strategy? Mr McLoughlin: I am not sure I was forced to do The Secretary of State was asked— anything, but I was asked by the Public Accounts High Speed 2 Committee to do proper research and to back up the case for HS2. I dare say that if yesterday’s report had 1. Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): What the come out negative, all those people who are against HS2 current budget is for High Speed 2. [900267] would have been shouting it from the rooftops. Because it came out positive, they are opposed to it. 5. Mrs Siân C. James (Swansea East) (Lab): What the current budget is for High Speed 2. [900272] Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): The KPMG The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick report showed that every region of Britain will benefit McLoughlin): The spending round of 2013 set a long-term from plans for HS2 to go as far as Leeds and , budget for the delivery of HS2 of £42.6 billion. That is but Scotland and the north of England would benefit made up of £21.4 billion for phase 1 and £21.2 billion even more if the lines extended to Glasgow, Edinburgh for phase 2. The budget includes significant contingency and Newcastle. How are the Secretary of State’s discussions provision of £14.4 billion. That budget is being tightly with the Scottish Government progressing in that regard? monitored by the Government and we are confident that the railway will be delivered for less than that Mr McLoughlin: I am prepared to have the meetings figure. I have set HS2 Ltd a “target price” for phase 1 of with the Scottish Government. I announced last October £17.1 billion. that we would be looking to take the line to Scotland. That work is ongoing. Susan Elan Jones: France, Germany, Japan and many other countries have benefited hugely from their high-speed Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): rail links, and many of us are fed up with a largely The Secretary of State referred to funds to be invested London-based commentariat that is seeking to stop a by Network Rail in the classic lines. Will he give an north-south high-speed rail link for this country, but assurance that, in addition, there will be sufficient funds does the Secretary of State agree that, if we are to build to invest in new passenger and freight services on lines a better consensus, it is extremely important that the freed by the development of HS2? budget figures he referred to will be both monitored and met? Mr McLoughlin: Indeed. The hon. Lady who chairs the Transport Committee embarks on an important Mr McLoughlin: I completely agree with the hon. point. key problem that any future Government Lady. We have a good record of delivering big projects will face is that of capacity on the network, as well as on time. The Crossrail scheme, which is being built at speed, and this line is also very much about capacity. If the moment, involves more than £14 billion and is the we made the improvement that some people suggest on largest construction project in Europe. It will greatly the present line, it would lead to capacity increases of enhance transport in London; it is essential, but HS2 is about 53% between London and Birmingham. HS2 will essential for the rest of the country. lead to a capacity increase of 143%. That is why it is so Mrs Siân C. James: The Secretary of State has outlined important to meet the objectives that we both have. the significant budget of the HS2 project, but what assurances can the Government give me and the people Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): My right hon. Friend of Swansea East that they will give full consideration to says that HS2 is about capacity rather than just speed, the proposals of the Howard Davies commission and so will he instruct HS2 to cut the speed so that the route the benefits of a future high-speed rail link between can be more flexible and do less damage to dozens of Cardiff and Heathrow airport? communities along the route, including five in my constituency? Mr McLoughlin: I do not want to anticipate or prejudge what the Davies commission report will say.The commission Mr McLoughlin: I have tried to say that the case for is very important and its interim report is due by the HS2 is not just about speed and that capacity is one of end of the year. The hon. Lady makes a point about the main reasons for it. Although the reduction in 1139 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1140 journey time between London and Birmingham is not 4. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): What huge—it will be in the region of 30 minutes—for great steps he is taking to tackle potholes on UK roads. cities in the north such as Manchester and Leeds the [900271] reduction will be very beneficial. There is not just one reason; there are many reasons for doing this project. Even if we took the line down to a lower speed limit, it The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport would not reduce the cost by much—we would be (Norman Baker): The Department for Transport is talking about 90% of the present cost, rather than providing more than £18 billion for highway maintenance 100%. for both the strategic and local road network between 2011 and 2021. That funding will help address the issue 14. [900283] Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) of potholes, which we know can cause problems for all (Lab): I agree with the right hon. Member for Chesham highway users, including cyclists. and Amersham (Mrs Gillan). Has the Secretary of State looked at an alternative integrated rail system, as Sir Tony Baldry: Last year Oxfordshire county council opposed to high-speed rail? Is there a Treasury limit on repaired 5,662 potholes, and so far this year it has spending for that project? repaired 4,719, at a cost of about £5 million. However, the way we repair potholes has not changed much over Mr McLoughlin: I have set out carefully the spending the years, so may I ask my hon. Friend what research is limit, and we have a put in place a reasonable contingency, being done to improve the way we repair roads for the based on internationally recognised figures. It is a big 21st century? contingency and I hope, as the chief executive of Network Rail said a few weeks ago, that the project could come in under the budget that the Government have allowed. Norman Baker: My hon. Friend makes a good point and I am happy to tell him that the Department has Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): The KPMG provided £6 million to the highways maintenance efficiency report this week revealed £15 billion of economic growth, programme, which is looking at best practice, optimum mainly in the main conurbations of the north. Will my techniques to keep costs down, and the materials that right hon. Friend confirm that not just those main will be used. Two pothole reviews published in 2012 and conurbations but smaller towns and cities such as Chester 2013 take those matters forward, but getting best value will benefit from new and increased services because of is absolutely important. increased capacity on the west coast main line?

Mr McLoughlin: My hon. Friend is absolutely right: Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): The Secretary this does add to the capacity and more services. Since I of State took his life into his hands in my constituency have been Secretary of State for Transport, I have over the summer by getting on his bike, and saw at first noticed that my colleagues on both the Opposition and hand the risks of the pothole crisis across north Yorkshire. Government Benches always press for more and better Will the Minister meet me to discuss the issue of potholes, services. If we are to adapt that and celebrate the because for rural areas it is the No. 1 transport issue? success of railway travel, which in this country has gone from 750 million passenger journeys a year to 1.5 billion, Norman Baker: I am happy to meet any hon. Member with an increase doubling on inter-city lines, we must to discuss such matters. I am also grateful for the find that extra capacity. confirmation that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has joined the rest of the ministerial team on a (Nottingham South) (Lab): There bike: we are very committed to cycling in the Department. is strong, cross-party agreement that a new north-south line is vital to tackle the serious and growing capacity constraints on our existing rail network. Will the Secretary Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): Cyclists and of State confirm that this investment will not draw drivers in Wirral are infuriated by the quality of our funding away from essential upgrades to the existing roads and the number of potholes we have. The council rail network such as the northern hub, electrification, has suffered ferocious cuts from the Government, so and new inter-city trains? Does he agree it is imperative can the Minister tell me what conversations he has had that the new north-south line remains on budget and on with leaders of local authorities about how they can track? ensure that our roads are of a decent standard, given the Chancellor’s austerity for local government? Mr McLoughlin: I entirely agree with the hon. Lady, and she has pointed out three important projects that will take place between 2014 and 2019: 880 miles of Norman Baker: With respect, the hon. Lady might be electrification; the new purchase of intercity express misinformed about the funding, because the Government programme trains for the east coast and great western will spend more in this five-year period than the previous lines; and the northern hub. Those important projects Government did on highway maintenance, with a greater are planned for between 2014 and 2019, and refer to the allocation of money from the Department of Transport £37 billion that I mentioned Network Rail is going to than happened under Labour. There will be a significant invest in the current railway system. increase in the period from 2015-16 through the next Parliament. Coupled with the highway maintenance Potholes efficiency programme I mentioned a moment ago, that gives local authorities both the money and the tools to 2. Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): What steps he is do the job properly. I suggest that she directs her taking to tackle potholes on UK roads. [900268] remarks to her local authority. 1141 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1142

London’s Transport Network commitment to look at that. As I said to the hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), any 3. Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): What his proposal to extend the underground and the rail system plans are for future investment in London’s transport in that part of London is primarily a decision for the network. [900269] Mayor.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport East Coast Rail Services (Stephen Hammond): As the Chancellor announced at the spending review, the Government are providing 6. Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): What his more than £5.8 billion in capital grant and a further policy is on the privatisation of InterCity East Coast £3.8 billion of borrowing power between 2015-16 and rail services; and if he will make a statement. [900274] 2020-21 to Transport for London, which will enable it to continue to invest in critical transport infrastructure, The Minister of State, Department for Transport including Crossrail and the tube upgrade programme. (Mr Simon Burns): My right hon. Friend the Secretary This is in addition to more than £10 billion that has of State announced the Government’s programme for been provided to TfL over the current spending review rail franchising in March. This included the intention to period up to 2015. return the InterCity East Coast franchise to the private sector by February 2015, and this remains our policy. Heidi Alexander: Can the Minister assure me that, in considering the case for Crossrail 2—which would link Mr McKenzie: Why does the Minister continue to south-west London and north-east London—the claim that the only way to get investment in the east Government will not forget that south-east London, the coast main line is through privatisation, when he is well area I represent, barely makes it on to the tube map at aware of the planned upgrade and the new generation the moment? Does he agree that the proposal to extend of inter-city trains, both paid for by the taxpayer? the Bakerloo line to Lewisham should form part of the strategic review of London’s future transport needs and Mr Burns: Because, as I would hope the hon. Gentleman how they can be met? appreciates, the purpose of Directly Operated Railways is not to run a railway ad infinitum; it is a short-term Stephen Hammond: As the hon. Lady knows, the measure when a problem arises with a franchise. He is Government are making £2 million available to TfL for absolutely right that as part of the record-breaking the Crossrail 2 study to take place. Any proposal to investment in our rail infrastructure we are investing in extend the underground is primarily a matter for the the east coast main line—as we are doing in the west Mayor and TfL. To date, the Mayor has made no coast main line and other lines— because that is the way representations that suggest that the Bakerloo line extension forward. With the innovation and impetus of the private is a priority for him. sector and a private sector franchisee, the maximum benefits can be ensured from state and Government Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): Last week, a security investment. scare closed the Dartford crossing and led to six-hour tailbacks along the M25 for local residents. Will the Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab): Why have Minister explore ways of mitigating such problems in the Government reordered the franchising timetable, the future and helping the residents of Dartford, who and what is the justification? The east coast main line are sick to the back teeth of problems arising from the timetable has been accelerated way out of order. What Dartford crossing? is the cost to the taxpayer?

Stephen Hammond: My hon. Friend is right about the Mr Burns: The reason for the change in the timetable significant repercussions for the residents of Dartford, is the unfortunate episode with the west coast main but he will appreciate that security is our first priority. line—[Interruption.] I said “unfortunate”. Following My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already the Brown inquiry, we redrew the franchising programmes called for an in-depth report into the incident, the and took his advice that the west coast main line and implications, and what can be done to mitigate such east coast main line franchises should not be done at the effects in the future. same time. That is why we are pressing ahead with putting the east coast main line franchise back into the Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): My hon. Friend the private sector in February 2015. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) is right to highlight the fact that south-east London is not Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): The served by the underground system and therefore is Minister knows that his decision to reorder the franchising heavily reliant on the rail system. The plan to develop a timetable just to enable him dogmatically to flog off a road crossing at Silvertown, next to the Blackwall tunnel, service that is working well has required him to renegotiate will not sufficiently provide the extra river crossings and extensions to other inter-city contracts. Can he confirm, access to docklands that south-east London needs. I therefore, as a result of his negotiating skills, how much stress the need for extra public transport options—including, money he is requiring Virgin Trains to pay to the if we build the Silvertown link, a docklands light railway Government next year? crossing—that will reduce the capacity on the roads. Mr Burns: I do not think the hon. Lady fully appreciates Stephen Hammond: I have listened carefully to the the role of DOR, which is not to run a franchise ad hon. Gentleman’s case, and I accept the point about the infinitum but to do so as an emergency measure. We Silvertown link—indeed, the Mayor has made a have made it plain, following the Brown inquiry and 1143 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1144 recommendations, that it is best for the private sector to Norman Baker: As I mentioned a moment ago, the run the railways, as was always intended under the Government is investing heavily across all modes in the legislation, and that is why we are pressing ahead. north-west of England, which is one of the areas to benefit most from the Government’s investment in the Maria Eagle: I am disappointed that the Minister forward period. That includes investment in the road does not know what he has negotiated, but I can tell network, but if the hon. Gentleman is concerned about him that Virgin Trains is paying £94 million, which, a specific road, I will be very happy to discuss it with according to rail regulator, is a staggering him. £64 million less than it paid last year. As his own Department’s figures reveal that he could have ended Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): above-inflation fare rises next year for a similar sum, is For maximum economic benefit, the high-speed link it not a disgrace that passengers face fare rises of up to needs to go to Manchester airport, yet it is left out of 9%, adding to the cost of living crisis, as a direct result the otherwise excellent KPMG report, which brings a of his decision to pursue this costly and unnecessary serious dimension to this debate. When will it be included? privatisation? Norman Baker: We fully appreciate the importance of Mr Burns: The hon. Lady forgets to mention that to Manchester airport, which meets a very important regional take into account the economic situation and economic need. The issue of HS2 and Manchester airport is mess that we inherited from her Government, we have under consideration, so the hon. Gentleman should not provided help to fare payers by reducing the average be unduly pessimistic about that. formula from RPI plus 3% to RPI plus 1%. She selectively chooses the figure of a 9% increase—an extreme increase— High Speed 2 (East Midlands) but that will arise in a very small number of instances, because the formula calculates an average increase. She 8. Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): What also forgets to mention those fares that have gone down assessment he has made of the potential effect of High rather than up. Speed 2 on economic growth in a) Chesterfield, b) Derbyshire and c) the east midlands. [900276] Transport Infrastructure (North-West England) The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr Simon Burns): Yesterday, HS2 Ltd published a 7. Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): What his future report by KPMG evaluating the potential impact of plans are for transport infrastructure in north-west HS2 on productivity and business location. The report England; and if he will make a statement. [900275] estimates that HS2 could generate productivity benefits to the Derby-Nottingham city region, which includes The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Chesterfield, of between £1.1 billion and £2.2 billion (Norman Baker): Since 2010 we have invested significantly per year—equivalent to between a 2.2% and 4.3% increase in the north west, including the electrification of key in total local economic output within five years of rail links, the development of managed motorways and opening. support for many local major schemes. Our rail investment strategy and this summer’s spending review include a Toby Perkins: I am grateful to the Minister for that commitment to HS2, the northern hub, additional managed answer. Many of us who recognise that there will be motorways and a record £12 billion boost to local significant economic benefits to the Chesterfield and transport. I hope to be able to announce shortly the Derbyshire area, and who support the principle, remain final approval of the Pennine Reach bus improvement concerned that the current planned route could have scheme in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. very negative impacts on projects such as the Chesterfield canal and the junction 29A enterprise zone. What Graham Jones: Is the Minister aware of the real reassurances can the Minister give to people who do not concern that delays to the Thameslink train contract want the economic benefits of HS2 to undermine other will mean that the electric trains due to be switched for existing economic projects in the region? use in the north-west will not be available by the time electrification is completed in the region? Does he agree Mr Burns: We do not wish or expect there to be any that it will be ridiculous to have electrified lines and no undermining of other projects, but I fully appreciate the electric trains in the area? hon. Gentleman’s concerns and I hope he is reassured that the matter is out to consultation, so he and others Norman Baker: I am glad the hon. Gentleman has will have a full opportunity to make their case before drawn attention to rolling stock, because I can confirm any final decision is taken. that the improvements we are introducing and the steps we are taking will provide capacity for up to 700 more 15. [900284] Mr Tim Yeo (South ) (Con): Will trains per day in the north of England. Of course, our my right hon. Friend emphasise that one of the biggest plans are properly aligned, so that electrification will but so far largely unrecognised benefits of constructing occur at the same time as the new rolling stock. High Speed 2 is the enormous increase in capacity that it creates on existing lines, for the benefit of all regions? Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Very few of my constituents travel regularly to London, but many Mr Burns: Yes, and I am very grateful to my hon. do travel daily by road to Manchester. What plans does Friend for that, because what is important and what is the Minister therefore have to speed up their daily on offer is that the High Speed 2 project will continue, commute by car? but not at the expense of full and continued investment 1145 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1146 in the conventional rail network. As he is probably a successful visit next week, what opportunity might aware, in the next control period Network Rail and the there be to access some funding to begin the process in Government are spending £37.5 billion to ensure that the next few years? we improve, enhance and add to the existing network, as well as having high-speed rail. Stephen Hammond: The announced study will focus on the route-based solutions that will unlock the potential Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Is the Minister for local transport innovation and for economic and aware that this so-called HS2—if it ever appears—is housing improvements. I thank my hon. Friend for his going to criss-cross the M1 about four times? What is he support for the Government’s investment, and I am sure going to do about that? And as for Derbyshire and that the visit next week will be successful. economic benefit, is he aware that there is not a single Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Does the stop in Derbyshire? Minister agree that improvements to A roads that are minor in cost terms can have considerable benefit Mr Burns: On the narrow geographical issue, I accept strategically? In my constituency, the A509 bypass and that Toton is not in Derbyshire, but it is halfway between the A45 dualling would help us enormously. Will he Nottingham and Derby, so considerable benefits will be look at those projects? brought to both those communities and the surrounding area. We appreciate the point the hon. Gentleman is Stephen Hammond: My hon. Friend is absolutely making about the M1, but, as he will appreciate, that right. That is why the Government have had two tranches matter is also out to consultation, so he will have an of pinch-point improvements for the national strategic opportunity to input into it. However, I hope he welcomes road network, and have provided £170 million for local the fact that, as a result of the station at Toton, there pinch-points as well. I would be delighted to meet him will be significant economic benefits to the whole region, at some stage in the near future to discuss his schemes. which no doubt will please him. East Coast Main Line (Rolling Stock Procurement)

Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): 10. Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): What Does my right hon. Friend agree that this vital project progress his Department has made on procuring new will free up capacity on the existing network to ensure rolling stock for the east coast main line. [900279] that towns such as Shrewsbury and Blackpool will be able to have connections to the capital? The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr Simon Burns): The Department is investing £2 billion Mr Burns: My hon. Friend makes a valid point. He is in a contract to supply 227 vehicles from its InterCity anxious to have a direct service on the conventional rail Express programme to replace the class 125 fleet and network from Shrewsbury to London and I have 270 vehicles to replace the class 225 fleet on the east considerable sympathy for and support with that. That coast main line. It is working with Agility to conclude is one of the reasons that high-speed rail is so important: the financing of the deal. it is capacity, capacity, capacity, to echo a former Prime Minister on another subject. That is what will be achieved, Jason McCartney: On my journey to and from Yorkshire which will help areas such as Shrewsbury. every week, I regularly see the peak-time overcrowding on the east coast main line. In fact, when I brought my daughters down to London in the last week of August, Roads Spending Programme we had to sit on the floor on the journey down and back up to Yorkshire. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that 9. George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): What plans we can have investment in HS2 and also in the east he has to ensure that the roads spending programme coast main line and that it is not a question of either/or? supports a) the A47 and b) other routes of strategic regional and national economic importance. [900277] Mr Burns: My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. He is absolutely right. I can categorically confirm, as I The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport did to my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (Stephen Hammond): The development of route-based (Mr Yeo), that it is not a case of either/or: it is both. We strategies by the Highways Agency will provide much will continue to invest record amounts—billions of smarter investment planning for the strategic road network. pounds—in the conventional rail network and proceed On 20 August, the Government announced that the to build HS2, because it is in the national interest. Department would undertake a feasibility study on the Mr (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Is A47 to identify ways to improve performance and support not the Minister aware that my experience as Chair of a economic growth in East Anglia. I of course look Select Committee for 10 years was that the best way to forward to visiting my hon. Friend’s constituency and have policy is to base it on evidence? The east coast is the A47 on Monday. under the shadow of the plans to build HS2. Five independent reports have said not only that it is a waste George Freeman: I thank the Minister for his commitment of money but that it will suck power and wealth from to the roads budget and for his agreement to visit the northern regions to London and the south. Norfolk next week; his visit is widely anticipated and welcomed. As he knows from the Adjournment debate Mr Burns: I can only assume that the hon. Gentleman, that we have had, the dossier that he has seen and the despite his 10 years as Chair of a Select Committee, business plan prepared by the A47 Alliance, the A47 is a when he was presumably assiduous about detail, has key economic artery linking our offshore energy cluster, not read the KPMG report that was published yesterday, the research park and the midlands. Assuming we have which categorically shows that the exact opposite is the 1147 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1148 case and that significant benefits are coming north of Ian Lucas: The -Bidston line, in one of the London. London gets some benefit but noticeably less most successful industrial regions in the UK, north-east than the northern parts of this country. That is why Wales and west Cheshire, is crucial to the development local authorities in the north support the project so of the region’s economy. What comfort can the Secretary much. of State give to local businesses who have expressed the concern to me that HS2 will divert investment in any Isle of Wight Ferry Services proposals in that region? 11. Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): What Mr McLoughlin: As we pointed out earlier in Question assessment he has made of the (a) cost and (b) Time, we are making significant investment in the whole reduction in service of ferries between the Isle of Wight railway system. That will come sooner than HS2. We and the English mainland; and if he will make a are spending £37.5 billion between 2014 and 2019. My statement. [900280] right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales has The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport also talked to me about the line my hon. Friend has just (Stephen Hammond): My hon. Friend will remember referred to, and I will be looking at how improvements that I visited the Isle of Wight earlier this year, as did can be made to that line as well. my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. We are of course aware of the fares for the ferry services and of T2. [900288] James Wharton (Stockton South) (Con): the level and frequency of service provided by the Pinch-point funding for our road network is very island’s three ferry operators. There has been no formal important. Ingleby Barwick in my constituency has assessment. This is a competitive market, and it is for significant traffic issues, especially where the A174 the ferry operators to decide the level of fares and meets Thornaby road. Will the Secretary of State work services based on market conditions. with me to find a solution to make life a bit better for my constituents? Mr Turner: The island’s ferries provide lifeline services and the repeated cuts damage our quality of life. Wightlink Mr McLoughlin: I certainly will work with my hon. has enormous debts, which are paid for out of the Friend and meet to discuss this scheme with him. It was island’s economy. I plead with my hon. Friends to enter part of the applications made originally for the local into dialogue to consider how public service obligations pinch-point fund, but it did not fall in the first round of can be introduced so that we have the certainty to build that. The scheme was very successful and over-subscribed, our economy and create more jobs. but I assure my hon. Friend that we are looking hard at ways in which we might go further, and I will be happy Stephen Hammond: My hon. Friend will remember to talk to him about his particular scheme. that I met him and a delegation from the island earlier in the year. I promised then to meet Wightlink, and have done so. There are more than 200 sailings to and T6. [900293] Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): from the island each day, so there is no apparent market Returning to the subject of HS2, will the Secretary of failure. I hear my hon. Friend’s plea to put public State confirm—we have been talking about the service obligations in place and we will continue to keep importance of integrating the line—that residents in them under review, but at the moment there is no case Chesterfield who want to take advantage of the to do so. benefits of HS2 will not have to drive down to Toton to do so, but will have a link from Chesterfield railway Topical Questions station?

T1. [900287] Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): If he will Mr McLoughlin: Although the hon. Member for make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. Bolsover (Mr Skinner) rightly pointed out that Toton is in Nottinghamshire, probably even he could throw a The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick brick from Derbyshire into Toton. McLoughlin): Since I was last at the Dispatch Box, my Department has announced £94 million in funding to boost cycling in eight cities and four national parks. My Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Further than right hon. Friend the Minister of State has published you. a consultation on the long-term property compensation measures for phase 1 of HS2. The Government have Mr McLoughlin: Possibly even further than me. As always been clear that they intend to go further than the the hon. Member for Chesterfield knows, the line from existing discretionary scheme in order to assist affected Chesterfield goes through the Toton works, so one property owners. The consultation proposals that we would imagine that there will be a good connection are setting out today are designed to do just that. from Chesterfield and other stations to the new station I am also announcing today important changes to we are planning at Toton. the discount scheme, which will help local people who use the Dartford-Thurrock crossing, following a persuasive T3. [900289] Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): I campaign by my hon. Friends the Members for Dartford wonder whether the Secretary of State is aware that the (Gareth Johnson) and for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price). Hastings to Ashford rail line is the only unelectrified From March 2014, those registered on the schemes will line on the south coast line. Will he join me in be able to make unlimited trips over the crossing for just calling for the electrification of this line so that my £20 a year. For the first time, we will include privately constituents can look forward to more reliable and registered vans, offering a welcome boost to small businesses. better link times to London? 1149 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1150

The Minister of State, Department for Transport T5. [900292] Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Mr Simon Burns): As my hon. Friend is aware, Network (Con): The £100 billion the Government have set aside Rail is currently undertaking an electrification study, for infrastructure projects is warmly to be welcomed. looking at all routes, including Hastings to Ashford, to May I reiterate to my right hon. Friend the importance identify potential candidates for electrification, which of the north-west relief road around Shrewsbury and could be carried out in the next rail control period from the importance that we attach to this vital project for 2019 to 2024. Any scheme would have to demonstrate a the town, which is bringing great economic benefits to business case before being considered, but would then the whole of Shropshire and mid-Wales? be given full consideration. Mr McLoughlin: Once my hon. Friend starts a campaign Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab): Three years on he never loses an opportunity to mention it. He raised from the axing of Cycling England and its £60 million this point with the Prime Minister and he has a meeting annual budget, this Tory-led Government promised planned with me. We are spending £9 million on pinch £148 million for cycling. That has turned out to be an points to tackle existing congestion around the road. I average of £38 million per year until 2016, with local look forward to my meeting with him, where I am sure authorities expected to find the rest. In comparison, £28 he will make his case persuasively. billion is planned to be spent on roads. Does the Minister Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): One in three blind really believe that this is the right proportion and that or partially sighted people are spending about £30 a this Government really are the most pro-cycling ever? month on taxis because buses cannot accommodate them through audiovisual equipment. What are the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Government doing to change that? (Norman Baker): We are the most pro-cycling Government ever. If the hon. Lady does not believe that, she should Norman Baker: We give strong support to the bus look at some of the comments from the cycling groups, industry through financial support directly to the operators, who have warmly welcomed the huge investment—the through the bus service operators grant, and through record investment—that has taken place under this local authorities. Our reforms to the bus system through, Government. That is a real step change in cycling, and I for example, the BSOG reforms and the extra money would have thought that she welcomed it rather than provided for green buses are giving a welcome boost to criticise it. the bus industry. That means that passenger numbers are roughly where they were at the end of the previous Government’s time in office. T4. [900290] Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): Will the Minister confirm that northern T9. [900296] Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): I commuters on the trans-Pennine routes are still in line recently met my constituent John Letch, owner of Car to benefit from the promised 40 extra carriages, and Contacts Ltd, which sells second-hand cars, many of will he continue to look into increasing capacity on which it imports from Northern Ireland. Mr Letch tells those northern commuter routes? me that in recent months the company has experienced severe delays in the re-registering of cars by the Driver Mr Burns: I am delighted to confirm that commuters and Vehicle Licensing Agency, delaying their onward on the trans-Pennine express are in line to benefit from sale and putting the company under financial strain. increased capacity provided by the extra 40 carriages to Will the Minister meet me and Mr Letch, and other be introduced on the Manchester to Scotland route and traders, to discuss this matter urgently? the reallocation of diesel trains. The new electric trains are scheduled to enter passenger service between December The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport 2013 and May 2014. I have no doubt that this will bring (Stephen Hammond): My hon. Friend refers to applications benefit to my hon. Friend’s constituents and others that were centralised at the DVLA in Swansea in July. along the line of route. There were initially some delays, but on 9 August a special team was created to deal with the more complex applications, and I think that that is now beginning to T7. [900294] (Islington North) (Lab): Will the rail Minister look seriously and urgently at the resolve the situation. However, I would of course be situation at Finsbury Park station, which is jointly run happy to meet him and his constituents. by Transport for London, London Underground and Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): The consultation Network Rail? There are welcome new platforms for on the potential closure of the Driver and Vehicle the overground but there is no step-free access for the Agency office in Coleraine and the moving of 300 jobs underground. The station is the busiest outside central to Swansea closed this morning. Although I do not London and it is dangerously overcrowded at many expect the Minister to have the answers to the consultation times. The Mayor is proposing changes from 2017. yet, will he agree to meet me, my hon. Friend the That is too late; we need them now. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) and a small delegation of workers who would be affected by Mr Burns: I will certainly look carefully at what the the closure? More importantly, will he take this opportunity hon. Gentleman has said. I will consult the Under-Secretary, to remove the smear levelled at workers that there were my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon (Stephen sectarian issues that would lead to the closure of the Hammond), and Transport for London. I hope that we office when none has ever been reported? can deal with this as successfully as we did when the hon. Gentleman and I last had a meeting in the Department Stephen Hammond: The hon. Gentleman is, of course, for Transport, when we resolved another issue extremely right that I will not comment on the result of the satisfactorily. consultation. He is referring to the package of documents 1151 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1152 that were published as part of the consultation, including understand that my hon. Friend has been fighting a an equality assessment. I apologise for any offence that valiant campaign, but that it has drawn a blank from was inadvertently caused and accept that the wording the county council. could have been clearer. I must stress that there was no intention to imply that any of the staff at the DVA might be biased in any way.Indeed, the equality assessment concludes that there is nothing in the proposal on the LEADER OF THE HOUSE centralisation plans that would give rise to any bias or any perception of bias. Finally, I would, of course, be delighted to meet him, the hon. Member for East The Leader of the House was asked— Londonderry (Mr Campbell) and a group of their constituents. Tabling of Amendments

Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): My constituents 1. Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) look forward to the electrification of the Great Western (LD): If he will make it his policy to encourage his main line. When does the Secretary of State expect to ministerial colleagues to table Government amendments begin a consultation on any reconfiguration of services, to Bills whenever possible in the House of Commons especially in the Bristol travel-to-work area, that will be rather than the House of Lords; and if he will make a made possible by electrification and the new trains that statement. [900258] come with it? The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Mr McLoughlin: I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s Brake): It is usual practice for Government to make welcome for our planned investment. I will write to him amendments, where possible, in the House of introduction. about the more detailed question of the timetable so However, the Government are rightly expected to listen that he will be well aware of it. and respond to debates on Bills in both Houses of Parliament, and it is, of course, the core strength of our Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): I want to Parliament that any amendments made to Bills in the take the railways Minister back to his earlier statement other place must also be agreed by this House. about the east coast franchise. Could he be precise about the innovations that I and my fellow travellers Simon Hughes: Obviously, all Governments try to will see if the process goes ahead? introduce perfect legislation the first time around, but very few succeed. I hope that my right hon. Friend and Mr McLoughlin: We will see, when we make the his colleagues understand that it is really important that invitations to tender, exactly what proposals come back the democratic House has the opportunity to look at from rail companies, but the simple fact is that this any changes that are found to be necessary as a result of Government—and the previous Government, for that the work of Select Committees and others. I hope that matter—have seen huge growth in our railways as a this Government will try very hard to ensure that we see result of the innovation of the train operating companies. amendments first and that they are not left as a sort of This is not new; it was well established under the teaser at the other end of the building late in the day. previous Government and continues to be under this one. Tom Brake: I agree with my right hon. Friend that it is very important that this House is given an opportunity Several hon. Members rose— to consider amendments but, as I said in my earlier response, it is inevitable that matters will be raised in the Mr Speaker: Order. Transport questions always tend other House that will need to be addressed there. I to bust the box office, I am afraid: demand exceeds understand what my right hon. Friend is saying and supply. The last ticket goes to Jake Berry. I will ensure, as far as I can, that what he seeks actually happens. Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Following on from the question asked Several hon. Members rose— by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), will the Secretary of State confirm that he Mr Speaker: Order. I am not sure whether the hon. will continue to work with me and my hon. Friend for Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) is trying improvements on the M66, which is a key commuter to contribute or to make a 100-metre sprint. route into Manchester for east Lancashire and Bury North, both of which have played their part, with their Jeremy Corbyn: I will sprint later. manufacturing-based economy, in reducing unemployment in our area? Mr Speaker: We are grateful. I call Angela Smith.

Mr McLoughlin: I was very pleased to join my hon. Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): Friend in his constituency a few months ago, where he There are rumours in this place that the Government explained to me some of the great difficulties he has intend to table a number of amendments to the lobbying with regard to communications and the transport links Bill and to make a number of concessions. Given what for his constituency. It is incumbent on us all to look at the Deputy Leader of the House has just said, will he how we can address those particular problems, improve commit to ensuring that those amendments are tabled the transport links and, where we can, improve the road in this House and not in the House of Lords? Even network as well as, if possible, the rail network. I better, why do they not just withdraw the Bill? 1153 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1154

Tom Brake: Clearly, the Government will not withdraw wrong about that, but I believe it to be the case. Will he the Bill. It has been made very clear over the past couple ensure that we use only paper and cardboard, which are of days that the Government will bring forward an completely recyclable? amendment on Report to address the significant issue that charities have raised with us. We hope to come to a John Thurso: The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely conclusion that they think is satisfactory. good point. Some of the matters that he has raised are outwith our control, but we seek to pursue the strategy Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Does the that he advocates wherever it is within our control. Deputy Leader of the House agree that a more important reform with regard to amendments would be to allow Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Recycling targets Members on both sides a free vote in Committee and to are set for households, councils and manufacturing not subject them to whipping? Would that not produce businesses. Is the hon. Gentleman prepared to set targets better legislation? for the House of Commons Commission so that it is trying to achieve the sorts of targets that we try to Tom Brake: That is an interesting point. I suspect that achieve at home? allowing free votes on amendments in this place would lead to chaos. John Thurso: I am delighted to confirm that we have a target. The House has a target to reduce by 75% the waste that is generated by weight by 2020-21, based on a 2008-09 baseline. Our recycling rate for the 12-month HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION period ending 31 August was, as I have just said, 58.4%. I hope that the measures we are taking will get us far closer to our target. The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked— LEADER OF THE HOUSE Recycling (Parliamentary Estate) The Leader of the House was asked— 2. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What progress has been made in encouraging the recycling of Private Members’ Bills plastics and cartons on the parliamentary estate. [900259] 3. Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): What recent discussions he has had on private Members’ Bills. John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross): [900260] At present, separate recycling facilities are provided for plastic, glass, cans and paper. A new system is being The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom trialled in Portcullis House to increase the estate’s recycling Brake): My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House rate. Office bins will be used for mixed, dry recyclables has had a range of recent discussions on private Members’ only, including paper, cans, plastic and juice cartons. Bills and has given evidence to the Procedure Committee Food and non-recyclable waste will be collected in bins as part of its inquiry. at tea points and in kitchen areas. By introducing that scheme, we aim to maximise the amount of plastics and Charlie Elphicke: Does the Minister agree that the other items that are recycled. We anticipate an increase conduct of some Members of this place with regard to from the current 58% towards our target of 75%. private Members’Bills undermines Parliament and weakens the power and the voice of Back Benchers, and that the Mr Hollobone: I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on timetable ought to be reformed to give the House greater his endeavours in this regard. It is important that the strength and a greater say? Commons estate leads by example on recycling. Is he satisfied that waste from individual offices is separated Tom Brake: My hon. Friend will be aware that the properly into the different waste streams? Procedure Committee has been considering the issue of private Members’ Bills because he gave evidence to that John Thurso: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for inquiry. The Committee will come forward with a wide that question. The short answer is that I am never range of recommendations that might address the points satisfied and we can do a great deal more. I think that that he has made. I am sure that the House will have the our efforts to collect waste centrally and separate it into opportunity to debate and resolve those issues in the the different recycling streams will make quite a difference. near future. I look forward to being able to report improvements in the future. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The Minister may not be aware that I recently served on the Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I welcome private Members’ Bill Committee of the European Union any improvements in recycling, as I am sure does everybody (Referendum) Bill, which reported yesterday. If he cares else. Will the hon. Gentleman consider the use of plastic so much about private Members’ Bills, does he realise by the building as a whole? We have removed much of it what a sham that Bill is, in the sense that everybody from the catering department, but not all of it. However, knew it was not a genuine private Members’ Bill, but a Members’ offices are still supplied with plastic envelopes Government Bill once removed? Is that good for Members that are not recyclable or biodegradable. I could be who introduce private Member’s Bills? 1155 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1156

Tom Brake: Clearly, the hon. Gentleman has strong options for the restoration and renewal of the Palace of views on that particular private Members’ Bill but, as I Westminster. The opportunity to prepare the independent stated, it is important that we consider these matters in options appraisal has been advertised, and six interested the round. The Procedure Committee has rightly devoted bidders who met the brief qualification requirements a substantial amount of time to considering this matter have been invited to submit a proposal. The deadline and the House should look at its proposals—for example, for submissions is 11 October. It is anticipated that the on the process of balloting Members—so that it can successful tenderer will begin work in January 2014. come to a sensible decision. Pauline Latham: My concern is that if we decant Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Does the from this place for five years, which has been rumoured, Deputy Leader of the House not agree that whatever new Members in 2015 might never serve in this Chamber. procedures are adopted, it is essential that no private That would be detrimental to their experience of being Members’ Bill should be allowed to pass through the in Parliament, if they serve only one term. Is it possible House without receiving the fullest and most detailed to consider moving us into the House of Lords, with the scrutiny, and certainly not less than that given to Lords moving out for the period and us then moving Government Bills? back in?

Tom Brake: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that John Thurso: I understand that there is precedent for question. He may be aware that the Procedure Committee’s that. The purpose of the independent options appraisal report states that it is not its intention to facilitate the is to consider all those points. The critical point is that passage of Bills into law through the private Members’ no decision will be possible until the next Parliament, so Bill route, and that it should not be easy to do so. Its no decision will be taken on whatever option may be position is that it does not want a simple process that thought be best until sometime in the next Parliament. allows private Members’ Bills to be rushed through. It will be the Parliament after that before the decision is implemented. The key factor is that all Members of Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Unusually, I both Houses want to achieve the best value for money was here last Friday for the consideration of private for the taxpayer, who will ultimately be paying for this. Members’ Bills—I had the joy of having secured the That should be the guiding principle, provided we can Adjournment debate. I have to say that it reminded me work appropriately. just how dreadful the process is. Any member of the public would be appalled at the behaviour the House in Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Since these matters and the way that Bills are talked out. Last £30 million a year is spent on both Houses for essential Friday, I actually saw a Minister participating in that maintenance, and recognising the state of the building process to ensure that a later Bill did not receive proper as described in the report last year—widespread defective consideration. Surely we need urgent reform? mechanical and electrical services, fire risk, asbestos and so on—should we not reach a decision more quickly Tom Brake: All I can say is that there are cases where on the rebuilding of the Palace, and not leave it in a private Members’ Bills do not make the progress that state where each year we are spending money when, at Members who promote and sponsor them would like. the end of it all, rebuilding will have to take place? However, there are examples of Members—they include the Leader of the House and the Parliamentary Secretary John Thurso: The hon. Gentleman raises an extremely to the Treasury, my right hon. Friend the Member for good point—one that has been considered in the essential North West Hampshire (Sir George Young)—who have, maintenance work that is going on. Clearly, the mechanical when in opposition, successfully passed private Members’ and electrical services in particular have to be brought Bills. It is possible for Members to make progress. up to a safe and workable standard so that we can occupy the building. I believe that time and money spent now in getting a really thorough appraisal will produce the best value result overall, but we have to HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION keep spending money to ensure that the building is safe and proper to use. The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked— LEADER OF THE HOUSE (Restoration) The Leader of the House was asked— 4. Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): What progress has been made on the restoration and renewal Select Committees of the Palace of Westminster; and if he will make a statement. [900261] 5. (Leicester East) (Lab): What assessment he has made of the current level of independence of John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross): select committees. [900262] Following consideration of the study report on the condition of the fabric of the Palace, the House of The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew Commons Commission and the House of Lords House Lansley): The independence and impact of Select Committee agreed, in October last year, to commission Committees has undoubtedly increased markedly since a comprehensive independent cost appraisal of a range of the implementation of this Government’s reforms. The 1157 Oral Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Oral Answers 1158 election of Chairs by the House and of Committee lobbying Bill did not receive pre-legislative scrutiny, members by the members of political parties has been particularly considering that the Government’s legislative instrumental in achieving this increased independence. timetable is so light?

Keith Vaz: Does the Leader of the House agree that Tom Brake: Clearly, the Government’s legislative Ministers should not seek to influence or interfere in programme is not light, as the hon. Lady suggests it is; the work of Select Committees? in fact, it is very full. As for the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Mr Lansley: I do agree with that. I attach great Administration Bill, there was pre-legislative scrutiny in importance to mutual respect and trust between Ministers respect of the lobbying proposals, although it is correct and Select Committees. that such scrutiny was not possible for the other aspects of the Bill. As I have stated—[Interruption.] I am sure Pre-legislative Scrutiny that the hon. Lady would like to hear that we published 15 Bills in draft in the 2012-13 Session—more than in 6. (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): any previous Session by any Government. What plans he has to extend the practice of pre- legislative scrutiny. [900263] Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): Has the Deputy Leader of the House given consideration The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom to one of the largest Bills this House has ever seen, Brake): The Government are committed, wherever possible, which is due to hit it in December? I refer to the at least to publishing legislation in draft for pre-legislative scrutiny. 50,000 pages that will accompany the High Speed 2 Bill. We have a good record. We published 17 draft Bills or Will the right hon. Gentleman join me in pressing the sets of draft measures in the last Session, which is more Department for Transport to allow us not only to look than the previous Government did in any Session. I am at some of these papers in advance, but to have pre- sure the hon. Lady would be aware that, before the legislative scrutiny of this Bill, which is going to be summer recess, the Government published substantive gargantuan? draft Bills on deregulation and consumer rights and will publish further measures as the Session progresses. Tom Brake: I do not know whether the right hon. Lady was able to ask that question earlier in Transport Diana Johnson: I am disappointed that the Leader of questions. Having previously been a Transport spokesman the House did not respond to that question because of and having been involved in a number of Transport his experience with the NHS Bill, which did not have Bills, such as the Crossrail Bill, I am absolutely certain pre-legislative scrutiny and had quite a torrid time in that there will be extensive opportunities for people to Parliament. Has any thought been given to why the debate these matters. 1159 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Business of the House 1160

Business of the House Given that the Leader of the House has just announced that the Bill will return for its Report stage on the first day following the recess, will he tell us how on earth we 10.33 am are expected to judge any amendments that the Government Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): I wonder whether may table? When does he intend to publish any new the Leader of the House would give us the business for amendments, and whom will he consult? Does he not when we return after the conference recess. agree that, in order to give the House time to consider the changes to clause 26 and to allow the views of The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew charities, campaigners and his own regulator on the Lansley): The business for the week commencing 7 October problems with the rest of part 2 to be heard, he should will be as follows: delay Report stage? MONDAY 7OCTOBER—The House will not be sitting. Some of the more generous critics of this mess of a TUESDAY 8OCTOBER—Remaining stages of the Bill on the Government’s own Benches have suggested Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning that the sinister gag on charities and campaigners might and Trade Union Administration Bill (Day 1). just be an innocent drafting mistake. I usually appreciate WEDNESDAY 9OCTOBER—Conclusion of remaining optimism, but I think that is taking it a bit too far. The stages of the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party reality is that the right hon. Member for Haltemprice Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill. and Howden (Mr Davis) was spot on when he said that THURSDAY 10 OCTOBER—Debate on a motion relating part 2 would “chill free speech”, and was right to vote to free school meals, followed by a general debate on against it along with nine of his Conservative colleagues. funding for local authorities. The subjects for both What a pity that the Deputy Prime Minister, who I am debates were nominated by the Backbench Business told cooked up the Bill at a “high-level meeting” with Committee. the Prime Minister, was mysteriously absent from the The business for the week commencing 14 October vote. Will the Leader of the House tell us whether that will include: was because the Deputy Prime Minister could not be bothered to turn up and vote, or because he was ashamed MONDAY 14 OCTOBER—Remaining stages of the Anti- of his own authoritarian Bill? social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill (Day 1). We must be clear. The Bill is a crude and cynical TUESDAY 15 OCTOBER—Conclusion of the remaining attempt by the Government to shut up their many stages of the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing critics in the run-up to the next general election. However, Bill. they have been found out. Is it not time that they WEDNESDAY 16 OCTOBER—Opposition Day [7th Allotted listened to the Chair of the Political and Constitutional Day]. There will be a debate on an Opposition motion. Reform Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Subject to be announced. Nottingham North (Mr Allen), and went back to the THURSDAY 17 OCTOBER—Business to be nominated by drawing board? the Backbench Business Committee. This week, the Liberal Democrats have been left to FRIDAY 18 OCTOBER—Private Members’ Bills. do the Tories’ dirty work on the gagging Bill. In fact, I should also like to inform the House that the they have become the Bill’s most fulsome defenders. business in Westminster Hall for 10 and 17 October will Such has been their enthusiasm for this gag on free be: speech that I am prompted to suggest that they invest in THURSDAY 10 OCTOBER—Debate on the third report a dictionary, so that they can look up the meaning of of the Environmental Audit Committee on wildlife the words “liberal” and “democrat”. crime, followed by debate on the first report of the I never cease to be amazed by the sheer effrontery of Work and Pensions Committee on “can the Work the Liberal Democrats. This week the Minister for programme work for all user groups?”. Schools, the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr Laws), THURSDAY 17 OCTOBER—Debate on the sixth report of unveiled an election promise to repeal secret courts the Transport Committee on the Coastguard, Emergency legislation. He hoped no one would remember that it Towing Vessels and the Maritime Incident Response had only got on to the statute book, a few months Group, followed by debate on the eighth report of the earlier, with Liberal Democrat support! Who do they Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee on think they are kidding? In that dictionary, they might the contamination of beef products. also want to look under C for consistency, and then move down the page and check out the meaning of Ms Eagle: We are always grateful to the Doorkeepers “cynical”. It is no wonder that the hon. Member for for looking after us. May I take the opportunity to wish Brent Central (Sarah Teather) used an interview with Bill Perkiss, who has served as a Doorkeeper for 26 years, one of the weekend papers to announce that she was in a long and very happy and retirement? It is well deserved. despair over her own party. The House has spent this week dismantling the This week, the Education Secretary underlined just Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning how callous the Government are when he asserted that and Trade Union Administration Bill. Members in all those who turn to food banks have only themselves to parts of the House have lined up to condemn the Bill as blame. The Transport Secretary promptly agreed with a sop to vested interests and a sinister gag on free him, and the Prime Minister refused to disassociate speech. On Tuesday, the Government caved in to pressure himself from the remarks during Prime Minister’s Question and agreed to an unspecified concession on clause 26. Time. How out of touch can this Government be? It is a May I ask the Leader of the House whether that will scandal that since they came to power, one third of a include amendments to schedule 3? Does he not realise million more people have had to use food banks, and all that the rest of part 2 is riddled with problems as well? this Government can do is berate them for it. 1161 Business of the House12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Business of the House 1162

The Chancellor used the phrase “living standards” not going to let him implement the changes to the 12 times in a speech that he gave earlier in the week. He political fund and its operation that he announced can say it all he likes, but it will not make up for the fact earlier in the summer. They will not let him do it. He that it is his squeeze on living standards that means that and the Labour party have one route to make sure those people cannot feed themselves and their families by the changes happen and to entrench them; it is to use the end of the month. Prices have risen faster than wages in Bill on Report, and it is not too late for them to table all but one of the 39 months that this Government have amendments on Report that would have that effect. I been in power, and all they have done is give tax cuts to call on them to do so. millionaires and defend the privileged few. So will the The shadow Leader of the House made some remarks Leader of the House arrange for a debate on how we about the recovery. Let me make it clear that it is this can build a recovery for all in an economy that works Government who inherited the most appalling deficit—the for working people? biggest annual deficit of any developed country. Let us As we all leave and head off to our party conferences, remember that that recession was a reduction in gross I would like to congratulate the Deputy Prime Minister domestic product of 7.2%. The idea that we could on his unprecedented outburst of realism on his radio recover from such a deep recession and resolve such phone-in show this morning. He announced that it was appalling debt problems—not only Government debt, “unlikely that at the next general election we are going to get an but consumer debt—without implications for people’s outright majority”. living standards over the short term is nonsense. We are I think he just might be right about that one. minimising those implications and, as a Government committed to fairness, ensuring that in the process those with the broadest shoulders bear the greatest Mr Lansley: I am grateful to the shadow Leader of burden, not least through our changes to the personal the House and join her in wishing Bill Perkiss a very tax allowance, which mean that people in work and on happy retirement. We very much appreciate the way in low earnings have seen their tax burden reduced, with which the Doorkeepers look after the Members of this 2.7 million people taken out of income tax altogether. House and wish him well. The Labour party never includes that in the figures it The hon. Lady asked only two questions. One was in uses. relation to the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party The most important thing is for people to have security Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill. through employment. We now have the lowest number We have no intention of delaying Report stage. It was of workless households we have seen and 1.4 million perfectly evident in the course of this week that the more private sector jobs. That is the basis upon which Opposition’s approach to the Bill was to talk on early people will feel the benefits of this recovery in the years groups of amendments at inordinate and absurd length ahead. in order to try to prevent scrutiny of later groups. [Interruption.] Well, we will make sure that the Bill is scrutinised properly. Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): My right hon. My right hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the Friend will be aware that a serious incident occurred on House made it very clear on Tuesday that we will table the Dartford crossing last Friday and led to its being an amendment on Report. We will publish it on or closed for seven hours, which brought home how dependent before 1 October and its effect is confined to clause 26 the whole economy of the south-east is on that one in principle, which is to ensure that for those who are piece of infrastructure. As we are considering bringing undertaking expenditure for electoral purposes the forward proposals for a new crossing in the lower substance of the test will be the same as in 2010. We Thames, may we have a debate so that we can discuss have made it clear that it has never been our intention to the optimum solution for the whole economy of the change the substance of the test of what constitutes south-east? expenditure for electoral purposes. We are very clear, however, that in relation to schedule 3 Mr Lansley: I am indeed aware of the incident. My and other parts of the Bill we will change the activities hon. Friend makes a good point. Indeed, I remember that will be controlled as part of controlled expenditure. when a further Dartford crossing was being contemplated We will bring down the limit, and rightly so. We will back in 1985-86, and at the time it was considered that disaggregate that constituency limit, so as to make the the dangers of a bridge being closed because of high regulation of non-party campaigning expenditure more winds were mitigated by the fact that there were tunnels. comparable to the regulation of party expenditure and We hoped never to encounter a situation in which both to make it apply at the constituency level as well. If I the tunnels and the bridge were closed, but we have, so can publish the amendment earlier and consult with to that extent this is an important issue. I cannot at this others, I will certainly set out to do so. point promise a debate, but I will encourage my colleagues at the Department for Transport to see what possibilities While I am on the Bill and Report stage in our first there are for involving the House in further discussions week back, as I announced, I continue to await a reply about those prospects. from the Leader of the Opposition to a letter that I sent two months ago asking him whether he wished to use the Bill as a vehicle for giving effect to his proposals to Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): A give members of trade unions a deliberate choice about year ago many Remploy factories were closed and the their participation in political funds. Not only have I Government promised extra help for those disabled had no reply, but it is perfectly evident from watching workers. Sadly, many of them are still unemployed. the Leader of the Opposition’s rather lamentable May we have a statement on why that promised help has performance in Bournemouth that the trade unions are failed so many? 1163 Business of the House12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Business of the House 1164

Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman will recall that the “I do not intend to provide further details of these meetings as Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my to do so may inhibit free and frank discussions in the future.”—[Official hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey), Report, 6 September 2013; Vol. 567, c. 556W.] has reported to the House on a number of occasions Mr Speaker, you chaired a meeting last week at which it about this. He will know that the Remploy board considered was let slip that the Leader of the House had that very all bids for the business. It has identified a preferred day had a meeting with the chair of IPSA. Would the bidder for viable automotive factories but has not concluded Leader of the House care to put on record what that that other bids were viable. Around two thirds of former discussion was about? Remploy workers who are accessing the support available to them are now either in work or undertaking activities Mr Lansley: I do not think I let it slip; I made it very aimed at getting them closer to work. I know that my clear that I had had that meeting, simply because it was hon. Friends at the Department for Work and Pensions the first time that I had met the board of IPSA. I did will continue to keep the House fully informed. that on the same day and I made it clear to the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards (Harlow) (Con): May we have a debate Authority that I had met the board, not least because, in on the best way to achieve a living wage? Does my right the context of the discussion that we had in the Speaker’s hon. Friend not agree that the best way to do that is Committee, I did not want it to be thought that the either by reintroducing the 10p tax rate on earnings up points I had made to the board had not been made. I to £12,500 or by taking those earning the minimum wanted to make it clear that I had made those points, wage out of tax altogether? which related to the board’s consultation on pay and pensions. Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend is right. We want to give people not only security, but good prospects and rising Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): We heard on Tuesday living standards. That is what we are aiming for and an announcement from the Secretary of State for Health what turning the corner in the economy, which we are of additional funding for some hospitals—mainly in doing, is all about. We want to sustain the recovery, the south, I might add. Other hospitals did not get any which means sticking to the policies that the Government extra funding, however, even though hospitals such as have set out, but included in that, as he rightly says, is Whiston, which serves my constituency, has seen a 25% ensuring that those on low wages do not have to pay increase in emergency attendances. There are similar tax. That is where we have made such a success. Someone pressures at Warrington and Halton hospital, which working 35 hours a week on the minimum wage will also serves my constituency. May we have a debate on have seen their income tax take halved, which is very this matter? The Secretary of State did not explain important. himself on Tuesday, and it would be interesting to find out why those hospitals did not get funding while others Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab): Later today the House did. will debate the critical subject of child protection for the second time in 12 months, but I am led to understand Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman will know that that for the second time in 12 months the Minister NHS England, Monitor and the NHS Trust Development responsible for child protection will not be responding Authority, which are respectively responsible for the to the debate, and neither will any Minister from the commissioning and regulation of provider trusts, jointly lead Department responsible for that important area. took a view on the allocation to individual trusts of the Will the Leader of the House look into the matter to see additional funding to meet winter pressures. I will raise whether the Department for Education has abandoned the hon. Gentleman’s point with my right hon. Friend its responsibilities to children? If not, will he clarify for the Secretary of State and ask him to inform him of the the House how we can hold the Minister responsible to criteria that were applied when those trusts were selected. account for this most important of issues? Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): Whole-life Mr Lansley: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. She sentences are quite rare in this country, and they are knows that Ministers take child protection extremely reserved for the most dangerous prisoners. May we have seriously, which is why, not least, the Home Secretary a debate on the ability of prisoners on whole-life tariffs has supported the development of work to combat to challenge their sentences, following a recent ruling by child exploitation and crimes against children. Ministers European judges that whole-life sentences contravened will respond to and participate in the debate this afternoon. prisoners’ human rights? Ministers take these issues extremely seriously, as does the House. Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will know that the Government do not agree with the view that human Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): May we have a rights are contravened in that way. There are proper debate on the independence of the Independent measures in place to review whole-life tariffs, but I will Parliamentary Standards Authority? This is not an of course raise his point with the Lord Chancellor in attack on IPSA, but I have established from responses the first instance. I will invite the Lord Chancellor to to parliamentary questions that this year IPSA has respond to my hon. Friend about how we will approach already had 13 meetings with Ministers, eight of them that judgment. in June and July, as well as seven meetings with Treasury officials. On 19 July, the chair and chief executive of Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I IPSA met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, a meeting agree with the Leader of the House that the broadest at which Treasury officials were also present. The chief shoulders should bear the greatest burden, but is he executive informed me in a written answer: aware that young people in my constituency and up and 1165 Business of the House12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Business of the House 1166 down the country are unemployed and desperate for a they needed to see her face to see whether she was job and the chance of a good way of life? They face paying attention, engaged in her work or distressed. intense competition from other young people in Europe Subsequent to that ruling, the Department for Education who come here because they think there is a better issued guidelines permitting schools and colleges to chance of finding a job here. We have to have a debate insist that they be able to see pupils’ faces at all times, on what are we are going to do for the 1 million and this week Birmingham Metropolitan college did unemployed young people who need a chance to have a just that. Will my right hon. Friend urge the Department good life. for Education to reissue its guidance so that the public can see that Birmingham Metropolitan college has acted Mr Lansley: I am glad that we agree that those with entirely within the rules and applied what most people the broadest shoulders should bear the greatest burden. in this country would regard as a common-sense policy Indeed, in this financial year, the top 1% by earnings with regard to the visibility of students? will contribute nearly 30% of income tax. Equally, we probably agree that we want to see young people in Mr Speaker: I trust we can have a statement or a employment. It is vital for them and for our economy debate on the matter as well. that those young people should have education, training and employment and that they do not fail to acquire the habit of employment. The fact that the number of Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I young people not in education, employment or training will raise the issue with the Department for Education, is at its lowest for a decade is helpful, as is the fact that although I understand from his question that he supports more than 1 million apprenticeships and 100,000 work the position that the Department has taken hitherto. I experience placements have been created since the election. am sure it will be grateful for that. Indeed, that position We are not in the least complacent about this, however. is much in keeping with a general principle that head About 900,000 young people are unemployed, and we teachers responsible for education within colleges and want to reduce that figure. schools should be able to make such decisions due to the effect on their institutions. Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con): As my right hon. Friend may be aware, my Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): When constituency of Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport has Fenton magistrates court closed, the building that housed close links with Gibraltar. Indeed, yesterday was national it—the former Fenton town hall—was put up for sale Gibraltar day. I am delighted to support the campaign by the Ministry of Justice, yet Fenton town hall was to give that gallant royal naval port, which has played never bought by the Ministry or the Government, who such a significant role in the defence of Britain over the never paid any rent for it, and the Ministry is seeking to past 300 years, the George Cross—similar to the award profit from the sale of the building. May we have a to Malta in 1942—to demonstrate the House’s support debate in Government time on buildings such as Fenton for Gibraltar during these difficult times with the Spanish town hall being put up for sale when no money was ever Government. May we please have a debate on that? paid, in the hope that we achieve the transfer of the building back to the community from which it came? Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will recall what the Prime Minister had to say by way of expressing to the Mr Lansley: The hon. Gentleman will understand people of Gibraltar our very strong message of support, that I cannot comment in detail on the case that he and the House will be pleased that a distinguished raises, although I will ask the Ministry of Justice to group of parliamentarians were with Gibraltar on its consider the points he has made. Generally speaking, national day to express our support as a House. I am the legislative steps taken by the Government to empower aware of the recent launch of a campaign for Gibraltar local people and local communities to identify properties to be awarded the George Cross. As he knows, all of community value and to be able to intervene to reasonable cases for gallantry awards are given careful secure them for community purposes have been much consideration. welcomed. Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): The Government plan to close the North Liverpool Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): Two months ago in the community justice centre, despite its success in bringing Chamber, I raised the case of Nadejah Williams, a down crime. A short consultation was held over the young woman with a rare form of colon cancer who summer. May we have a statement on that? had been refused life-saving CyberKnife treatment by NHS England. Last night, Nadejah was told the good Mr Lansley: The hon. Lady might be interested to news that NHS England had changed its mind and she know that on the Tuesday that we return after the can now be treated with Mount Vernon’s CyberKnife conference recess, the Ministry of Justice will be responding system. I thank Andy Lines from the Daily Mirror for to questions. I shall draw the Department’s attention to doggedly pursuing her case and the Under-Secretary of the point that she has made—it might be able to respond State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe in the meantime—but that might otherwise be an (Anna Soubry), for intervening personally and making opportunity for her to raise that important constituency NHS England see sense. issue. May we have a debate on why six months of trauma and three appeals by Nadejah’s specialists occurred Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): In 2007, the before that young woman was allowed her CyberKnife High Court rejected a bid from a pupil to be allowed to treatment, thereby ensuring that others do not suffer wear her niqab in class. The staff powerfully argued that what can be critical delays to their treatment? 1167 Business of the House12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Business of the House 1168

Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I Mr Lansley: I will not comment on that point, but I am sure the House will appreciate how she has pursued draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the fact that the that case, and share her hope that successful pursuit of Backbench Business Committee has scheduled a debate that treatment will be of great benefit to Ms Williams. I for Thursday 10 October on the funding of local authorities. cannot promise a debate, but it is important for the NHS to be able to pursue innovative treatments. Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): Michelle CyberKnife—a brand name—is a form of interventional Inch is a constituent who contacted me two years ago radiotherapy, and other forms of interventional when looking for help to set up a business from home. radiotherapy were agreed by the National Institute for Two years later she now has permanent premises, and is Health and Care Excellence to be effective. From my importing, rebranding and sending products throughout experience in these matters I know that, along with the country. She did that with the help of the Prince’s others, CyberKnife was increasingly being adopted across Trust. May we have a debate on the Prince’s Trust and the NHS, and rightly so. business support in general, to recognise the excellent support that His Royal Highness and the trust give to Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): Real wages for businesses? men have dropped in Blaenau Gwent by £30 a week. May we have a debate in Government time on how the Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and I Government’s two-nation policies have failed so many think his experience, which he ably sets out, is reproduced parts of the UK? in many constituencies across the country. I have often found inspiring the way that the Prince’s Trust has given Mr Lansley: What is clear is that the coalition hope, opportunity and support to young people whom Government are pursuing what I regard as a genuinely the rest of the system would probably not have thought one-nation policy, and restoring the economic health of had potential. They do have potential, however, which this country after the appalling circumstances in which is realised through the offices of the Prince’s Trust. The it was left—I referred to that earlier—in a way that gives Government want to ensure that we do our bit, and proper support to those in need and helps people back today the Prime Minister will announce a further extension to work. The Work programme is among the most to the new enterprise allowance, which has already successful initiatives. As I said, people in work will supported the establishment of 26,000 new businesses. inevitably find that across the whole economy we are That is complementary to work of organisations such not in a position to pay ourselves more than we earn, or as the Prince’s Trust, which has done such great work in to carry on doing so, as we did for a long time. As a the past and today. country, however, we are increasingly earning our way, winning in the global race, getting contracts and exports, Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): The UK is an investing for the future, and putting in place infrastructure acknowledged world leader in research on and clinical and business investment that will enable us to earn our treatment of rare disease. Will the Leader of the House way to rising living standards in the future. agree to have a debate on the structure of the UK rare disease plan, which would encourage collaboration across the UK and permit Northern Ireland to participate in Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): the decision-making process? In Harrogate and Knaresborough the number of those claiming jobseeker’s allowance has fallen by almost a Mr Lansley: I am proud that the first such rare third in a year, and as my right hon. Friend reminded disease plan was published when I was Secretary of the House earlier, 1.4 million private sector jobs have State for Health. I know that my colleagues in the been created by businesses since 2010. May we have a Department for Health regularly co-ordinate with their debate to explore further that positive news about job counterparts in the devolved Administrations, but I will creation? ask them to what extent that involves working together on the rare disease plan. Mr Lansley: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. His constituency in the north of England is a place where Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): jobs are being created and businesses are operating Will the Leader of the House allow time for a debate on successfully, and he and his constituents can take pride broadcasting and journalism. so that we might pay in what they are doing. Generally, it is right to say that tribute to the former Gillingham grammar school boy, there are 1.4 million more people employed in the Sir David Frost, who was a great broadcast journalist private sector, and a record number of women in and a great ambassador for Gillingham? employment. Despite the inevitable and necessary fact that we reduced the deficit and constrained public spending, Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend and many others on which led to more than 400,000 fewer public sector jobs, both sides of the House will have mourned the passing more than three private sector jobs have been created of Sir David Frost. I remember not only his sense of since the election for every public sector job lost. humour but the incisiveness with which he conducted his journalism, which is a model for journalists across Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): the world. He is much missed. Given widespread support for a sporting legacy from London 2012, may we have a debate on unfair local Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): Since the Government funding to northern cities that means lots 2010 general election, unemployment has fallen by 69% of sporting facilities will close, possibly including those in my constituency, meaning that it is now less than at Ennerdale, which is the only standard-size swimming 2%. Would the Leader of the House consider allowing pool for competitions in Hull? time for a debate on how we can utilise world-class 1169 Business of the House12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Business of the House 1170 manufacturing businesses which export, such as Pretty offices that either POCA or an alternative Post Office Polly and Aristoc in my constituency and others all over product continues after 2015. Time is short, so may we Britain, to support economic growth and make sure have an urgent debate on the subject? that employment levels continue to fall? Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend asks a good and timely Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend gives an impressive question. He may know that the Department for Work account of her constituency that not least demonstrates and Pensions contract with Post Office Ltd to provide that this is not a recovery that is being generated in the Post Office card account expires in March 2015. The London and by financial services, but is happening DWP, Post Office Ltd and the Department for Business, across the country and is more broadly based, especially Innovation and Skills have begun detailed discussions for manufacturing companies. The figures that she quotes concerning the future needs of customers beyond that from her constituency are very impressive and I am date, to ensure that access to pensions or other welfare pleased to hear them. benefits is not put at risk. He will also understand that although there is the option to extend the contract for Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): In April I up to two years, the services provided under the contract asked for a statement on the case of Mr Haroon Aswat. fall within procurement regulations and would need to Mr Aswat is wanted in the US as a co-conspirator of be subject to open competition following any period of Abu Hamza, but the UK has been prevented from extension. deporting him by the European Court of Human Rights. Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): We have an This week, the Court announced it will not even hear unacceptable situation in Rye, where two giants of the the Government’s appeal. It is no wonder that so many supermarket world co-own one site on which they cannot people think it is now time that we withdrew from the reach an agreement. For 10 years, my constituents have European convention. May we please now have a statement? had to wait to see who can develop it. It is still undeveloped, causing blight and irritation to the whole town. May we Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend will know that we are have a debate on how to persuade these large corporate disappointed by the panel’s decision not to refer the giants to act perhaps in the best interest of the community? case to the Grand Chamber. The Home Secretary does not believe that extradition would breach Haroon Aswat’s Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes an important human rights, and she will now consider what options point for her constituency. She might seek to raise the are available in this case. I am sure the House will issue on the Adjournment at some point, but having understand that it would not be appropriate for me to raised it in business questions, she would be right to comment further at this stage, but I know that the take the opportunity to say to the companies concerned Home Secretary will keep the House informed. that while it is their decision, she and her local authority might be best placed to try and broker a solution. I Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Many young encourage the companies to get together, as she asks, people in my constituency have been taking up jobs and and see whether they can do something that is in the apprenticeships with local food and drink producers, best interest of her community. and this Sunday it is the Totally Locally street market in Slaithwaite, with the Holmfirth food and drink festival Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Following at the end of the month. May we have a debate on the the question by my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering importance to local economies of food and drink producers (Mr Hollobone), can the Leader of the House make a and the benefits of shopping locally? statement confirming that in a Division a Member would not be allowed to cover their face—in fact, they Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend makes a good point and must raise their head and lower it as they go through the I know that many hon. Members have brought local Lobby? food and drink producers here as part of a constituency Mr Lansley: My hon. Friend raises a point that is presentation day, which amply illustrates that point. We technically a matter for the Speaker, and not a matter recognise the benefits that marketing of regional and for me as Leader of the House. I do not think we need a local food can bring to producers and consumers alike, debate. Unless the Speaker advises me otherwise, I and shoppers increasingly want to know the provenance think the rules of the House are clear that a Member of the food they buy and how it has been produced. must identify themselves to the Tellers in such a way. Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): Three million Mr Speaker: I think we are clear on that point. There people have chosen to collect benefits or pensions at the is no requirement for a debate on the matter, but we are post office through a Post Office card account, but the grateful, as always, to the hon. Member for Wellingborough contract between the Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Bone). We now proceed to the statement by the and the Post Office is due to end in 18 months’ time. It is Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth important for those 3 million people and for rural post Affairs. 1171 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1172

Syria and pillage; and serious violations committed by some extremist anti-regime armed groups, which we also condemn. 11.12 am On top of this, we have now seen mass murder inflicted by the regime’s use of chemical weapons. So The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth our third objective is to ensure a strong international Affairs (Mr William Hague): In recent days there have response, so that these barbaric weapons are not used been several major developments relating to Syria. I again and that those responsible are held to account. thought it would help the House if I provided an update The House debated this subject on 29 August, and we on those developments before the House rises. have made it clear that we respect the view of the I will cover our objectives in three crucial areas: our House. response to the humanitarian crisis; our efforts on the The UN team is expected to report on its investigation political process, including relations with the Syrian into the 21 August attack early next week. We await National Coalition; and our support for a strong their findings, but there should be no doubt in this international response to the use of chemical weapons. House that all the evidence continues to point in one direction: the Government confirmed last week that First, we are determined to encourage and lead UK experts at Porton Down have tested samples from a international efforts to alleviate human suffering in victim reportedly treated as a result of that attack. Both Syria and the region. The is the second the clothing and soil samples tested positive for sarin. largest bilateral donor to the humanitarian relief effort Human Rights Watch issued a report this week stating after the United States. The Prime Minister’s announcement that, based on its own independent evidence and assessment, at the G20 in St Petersburg of an additional £52 million in assistance brings our total support to £400 million so “Human Rights Watch finds that Syrian government forces were almost certainly responsible for the August 21 attacks, and that a far, and we are encouraging other countries to do much weapons-grade nerve agent was delivered during the attack using more. As a result of the meeting convened by the Prime specially designed rocket delivery systems.” Minister during the G20, Canada, Italy and Qatar have It went on to say: made new funding commitments, and 10 countries agreed “The scale and coordinated nature of the two attacks…the to lobby for unfettered humanitarian access for international presence of government-controlled potential launching sites within humanitarian organisations inside Syria, and to provide range of the targets; the pattern of other recent alleged chemical medicines, contamination tents, and medical training weapon attacks against opposition-held areas using the same 330 against chemical weapons attacks in Syria. mm rocket delivery system; and the documented possession of the 140 mm and 330 mm rocket systems able to deliver chemical Secondly, we remain committed to helping bring weapons in the government arsenal—all point towards Syrian about a political settlement. The basis for a political government responsibility for the attacks.” solution was agreed in Geneva last year, namely the The international consensus that the regime was formation of a transitional Government, with full executive responsible is growing. During the G20, 11 nations, powers, drawn from the regime and the opposition, by including the UK, signed a statement condemning the mutual consent. We are in close touch with our partners regime’s use of chemical weapons and supporting efforts about convening a second Geneva conference to make by the United States and other countries to reinforce that a reality. It is absolutely clear that no lasting or the prohibition against chemical weapons use. A week meaningful political solution can occur without the later, that statement has now been signed by 25 countries. moderate Syrian opposition. The Syrian National Coalition has committed itself to a secular, democratic and pluralist On Saturday I attended the EU Foreign Ministers Syria that ensures equal rights for all Syrians. That is a meeting in Vilnius, which unanimously agreed that there vision that the whole House and our country can support. was strong evidence of regime culpability, and that “in the face of this cynical use of chemical weapons, the international Last Thursday I held talks in London with the president community cannot remain idle”. and senior leadership of the Syrian National Coalition. This growing international pressure, including the threat We are providing more than £20 million in non-lethal of military action by the United States, has had an support to the opposition, including 4x4 vehicles, body impact. On Monday, I hosted Secretary Kerry for detailed armour, generators, communications equipment, water discussions on the way forward. On the same day, the purification kits and equipment to protect against chemical Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, announced weapons attacks. This includes 5,000 escape hoods, that Russia would urge the Syrian regime to sign up to a detector paper, and a stock of nerve agent pre-treatment proposal which would place their chemical weapons tablets which have already been delivered. President stocks under international control for destruction. In al-Jarba, of the national coalition, and I discussed ways response, the regime announced that it supported the the UK could provide further non-lethal support to the initiative and was ready to co-operate, and that it intended opposition to help save lives, alleviate humanitarian to join the chemical weapons convention, open up its suffering, provide services in areas no longer under sites and give up its chemical weapons. regime control, and prepare for Geneva II. Given its track record, any commitment made by the This support is made all the more urgent by the Syrian regime must be treated with great caution. This appalling crimes being committed in Syria. The UN is a regime that has lied for years about possessing Human Rights Council’s independent international chemical weapons, that still denies that it has used commission of inquiry issued a harrowing report yesterday them, and that refused for four months to allow UN describing crimes against humanity and war crimes inspectors into Syria. Nevertheless, as the Prime Minister being committed by the regime and its forces, including has said, we have to take this proposal seriously and we indiscriminate shelling, sieges, massacres, murder, torture, have to test its sincerity. If the Syrian regime verifiably rape and sexual violence, enforced disappearances, execution gave up its chemical weapons stockpiles, this would 1173 Syria12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1174 obviously be a major step forward. We agree with from the international community. Those humanitarian President Obama that this initiative has the potential to efforts are necessary but insufficient to alleviate the remove the threat of chemical weapons without the use suffering. The level of ongoing violence in Syria today of force. Intensive discussions are now taking place represents the greatest diplomatic failure of the international about how to achieve this, and Secretary Kerry is meeting community in the 21st century. We support the Foreign Minister Lavrov in Geneva today to discuss the Government’s continuing efforts to convene a second proposal. Geneva conference, but we remain of the view that a Our diplomats in New York are in close discussion contact group could assist in that endeavour, given the about a draft Security Council resolution, and the five present difficulties in securing the attendance of the permanent members of the Security Council met for warring parties. consultations last night. A resolution must establish a Members on both sides of the House stand united in binding commitment for the Syrian regime to give up its their revulsion at and abhorrence and condemnation of chemical weapons within a specific time frame. We will the use of chemical weapons in this ongoing and bloody hold further discussions in the Security Council once conflict. It is a conflict that means that Syria is disintegrating the UN inspectors have reported. The United Kingdom as a nation state. That disintegration risks destabilising will make every effort to negotiate an enforceable agreement not only Syria’s immediate neighbours but the region as that credibly, reliably and promptly places the regime’s a whole. chemical weapons stocks under international control for destruction. Two weeks ago, the votes of this House on Syria The House should be in no doubt of the scale of the reflected real concerns that the country was being pushed challenge and the immense practical difficulties that too quickly towards military action, on a timetable set would need to be overcome. It would require the genuine elsewhere, without due process being followed and the co-operation of a regime that denied until recently that necessary steps being taken. Moments after the Government it possessed these weapons and has used them ruthlessly motion was lost—a rejection of the Government’s rushed against its own people on at least 14 occasions, killing judgment in relation to the use of British military force many hundreds of people, including women and children. without precedent since perhaps the case of Lord North The regime has a large number of sites—possibly the in 1782—the Prime Minister stood at the Dispatch Box largest stock of chemical weapons possessed by any and read from a sheet of paper the following words: nation in the world—in numerous different locations in “It is very clear tonight that, while the House has not passed a a country that is a contested battlefield. We would need motion, the British Parliament, reflecting the views of the British to have confidence that all chemical weapons had been people, does not want to see British military action. I get that, and identified and secured and that they could not fall into the Government will act accordingly.”—[Official Report, 29 August the wrong hands. 2013; Vol. 566, c. 1555.] These issues can all be overcome with sufficient The suggestion has since been made that the decisive international unity and good will, and provided there is voice influencing the Prime Minister’s apparently a complete change of approach by the Assad regime to predetermined decision to rule out the use of British all its past practices and deceptions. Therefore, we will military force in Syria if the Government motion was approach these negotiations with determination and lost was not that of the Foreign Secretary but that of resolve, knowing that if successful it would be an important the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Therefore, in his breakthrough, but that overcoming all these issues will capacity as Foreign Secretary, can the right hon. Gentleman not be easy and that in the meantime thousands of offer the House any examples of circumstances in which Syrians are dying every month from conventional weapons the Government will seek to come back to the House on in this worsening conflict. the issue of the use of British military force in Syria? The Foreign Secretary has just told the House: It is abundantly clear that this diplomatic opening would not have come about had the international “The United Kingdom will make every effort to negotiate an community shown complacency or disregard for the use enforceable agreement”, of chemical weapons in Syria, and that pressure on the so he clearly agrees with me that it is preferable, if it is regime must be maintained. At the same time, we will possible, to remove the threat of chemical weapons continue to do all we can to alleviate humanitarian from Syria without having to resort to the use of force. suffering and save lives, we will support Syria’s moderate opposition, and we will make every effort to advance a Two days after those votes were cast in the House of diplomatic solution to a conflict that has gone on for Commons, President Obama specifically referenced the far too long. British Government’s failure to secure the support of Parliament when explaining his decision to delay the use of force in Syria and indeed to take the matter to 11.21 am Congress, so I ask the Foreign Secretary this question. Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire Is it not abundantly clear that if the Government’s South) (Lab): I thank the Foreign Secretary for his motion had been passed by this House two weeks ago, statement and indeed for advance sight of it this morning. the United States military force would in all likelihood Coming to the House ahead of the parliamentary recess have already been used in Syria and the diplomatic path acknowledges that there are strongly held opinions and that he now advocates with such conviction would deeply felt concerns on both sides of the House about never have been reached? events still unfolding in Syria. None of us has any doubt about the murderous I welcome the Government’s steps to provide vital nature of the Assad regime, and no one should have any humanitarian support to those affected by the conflict illusions about the fact that since the start of this and the continuing efforts to secure additional funds conflict the Russians have provided not only weaponry 1175 Syria12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1176

[Mr Douglas Alexander] was proceeding, and there is no sign at all that this development would have taken place had Governments but significant diplomatic cover to the Assad regime. around the world not been debating those issues and The challenge confronting Secretary Kerry and Foreign had the United States not been debating whether to Minister Lavrov today in Geneva is indeed daunting. take military action. Their task is to find ways to evidence that a goal that is desirable is also doable. That would mean agreeing a Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con): Will credible plan in circumstances not just of low trust but my right hon. Friend say a little more about what of violent conflict; a means to identify, verify, secure progress is being made at the United Nations to secure a and ultimately remove those weapons from Assad’s resolution for unfettered cross-border access for the possession, with the final goal of destroying them altogether. humanitarian agencies? He will be aware that most of While these critical negotiations are taken forward, the the UN aid is going through Damascus. That means UK must continue its work to help alleviate the suffering that aid is reaching the areas held by the Government and engage constructively with partners in the Security but not reaching the areas held by the rebels. As winter Council. comes on, the danger of starvation and a medical emergency will increase unless the situation is resolved. Mr Hague: There is strong agreement about everything I said in my statement, judging by what the right hon. Mr Hague: This is a very important issue. We are, one Gentleman said, although disagreement about one thing way or another, getting aid into all 14 governorates of that was not in the statement, which I will come back to. Syria and into many different parts of Syria. However, the regime has often sought to interfere with that aid I welcome what the right hon. Gentleman said. I and has denied access to some areas. It has even reportedly think that there is strong unity across the House on the engaged in removing medical supplies and preventing importance of our humanitarian contribution. He said them from getting to areas where its own people are that everything that we and other countries were doing needing urgent medical attention. The answer to my was necessary but not sufficient to alleviate the suffering. right hon. Friend’s question is that we have not yet That, sadly, is true, because only the end of the conflict secured agreement on a resolution or action on this at will truly alleviate or give us the opportunity to alleviate the United Nations Security Council. All attempts so the suffering of millions of people. He rightly welcomed far to agree in the Security Council on statements or the diplomatic efforts that we continue to make on resolutions that require the Assad regime to perform bringing about a second Geneva conference. There is no any particular actions, including on the humanitarian shortage of discussion in the international community side, have been opposed by Russia and by China. That about how to do this. We have regular discussions with does not mean that we should give up on it. At the G20 all our colleagues on the Security Council, including the Prime Minister discussed with other countries returning Russia, about how to bring it about. Ideas are floated to this issue at the United Nations if necessary, and we about different diplomatic groups that might bring this are standing ready to do so. about, but the essence of the problem remains that we need all appropriate parties to be ready to fulfil what was agreed at Geneva. There is no evidence that the Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab): May I wish the Foreign regime is in a position to do that as things stand, but we Secretary every success in the attempt to remove chemical will continue to work on that. weapons from Syria? I am sure he will acknowledge, however, that they account for just 1% of all the casualties I take what the right hon. Gentleman said as agreement in this awful civil war. Will he use his influence to in the House on the approach to the negotiations now persuade the whole of the opposition, a significant part taking place about an international agreement on chemical of which is opposed to the process now going on in the weapons. He said that a credible plan was needed in an United Nations to resolve the chemical weapons issue, atmosphere of low trust and violent conflict. That is to come to the negotiating table, because it takes two to correct, and it strikes the same note as the one that I tango? It will be difficult enough getting Assad and the was striking—that we must take this seriously and make Russians and the Iranians lining up; it is essential that every effort to make it successful, but that to be successful he use his influence to get the opposition willing to it has to be an enforceable agreement that credibly, negotiate as well. reliably and promptly deals with this issue and places the regime’s chemical weapons stocks under international Mr Hague: I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. It control for destruction. is very important that the regime and the national I need to disagree with the right hon. Gentleman coalition are ready to negotiate in a second Geneva about only one thing that he said, which is a rather conference on the basis of what was agreed at Geneva extraordinary claim that none of this would have come last year. A large part of the discussions that I had with about had the Opposition not voted against the Government the national coalition last week was that they must be motion two weeks ago, which is a rather self-obsessed ready to do that at any time, and that their own dissociation view of world developments. It is like the story of the from the use of chemical weapons must be made as cockerel who thought its crowing brought about the clear as possible. They received that message very, very dawn. He will remember that the motion we put before strongly from me last week, and they will continue to the House said that, far from being in a rush, the do so. Government would await the report of the UN inspectors, which has not yet come out, before taking any military Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): When the action, that they would make every effort to secure a House debated this matter in August in our response to Security Council resolution, and that there would be a the chemical weapons attacks in Damascus, we were second vote. That is the basis on which the United Kingdom working on the basis of an extremely short assessment 1177 Syria12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1178 by the Joint Intelligence Committee. Since then, the Syria. The Foreign Secretary has referred to practical USA has published a detailed analysis, as have the difficulties, one of which is safe access and egress, not French and others, and Human Rights Watch has only for the inspectors, but for the weapons themselves. concluded in a very detailed report that the regime was Will the British Government argue very strongly that if almost certainly responsible for the attacks. To take a such safe routes are set in place they can be used for the requirement cited by the Leader of the Opposition, delivery of humanitarian aid to the 6 million people in does my right hon. Friend agree that the evidence Syria, who the most recent report states are dying at a against the Syrian Government is now compelling? rate of 80 to 150 a day from conventional weapons?

Mr Hague: The evidence is compelling. In my view, it Mr Hague: That is a good point. It will be very has always been compelling because, as was clear even important, exactly as the hon. Lady says, for there to be at the time of our debate two weeks ago, there was no safe access. That might open up other opportunities, plausible alternative explanation. It is true, of course, but it remains to be seen. It is very important that all that as time goes on and medical and soil samples are our work to improve humanitarian access continues in analysed, the evidence gets even stronger. The actual parallel with that to deal with the chemical weapons. evidence is there, so yes, it is compelling. We now await We do not yet have an agreement—we are still some the report of the UN inspectors. As I have explained away from one—on how and whether this can be done, before in the House, they do not have a mandate to so I think the hon. Lady is getting ahead of where we attribute blame, but of course we hope that their findings are in negotiations, but this is a question that we will will nevertheless be of significance. certainly keep in mind.

Meg Munn (, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): France Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): has said that it wants a resolution under chapter VII of Whatever side of the argument we are on, I am sure my the UN charter that threatens serious consequences if right hon. Friend will agree that things have moved on Syria breaches conditions. Does the Foreign Secretary substantially since the debate a couple of weeks ago, support that position? not least with the emergence of Russia as an active player, rather than a constant blocker of any settlement. Mr Hague: We are working closely with France, and What does he think has brought about Russia’s change with the United States, on a text for the Security Council. of heart, although we are yet to see the genuineness of Last night we discussed with Russia and China how to its actions as opposed to its words? set about a statement and resolution at the Security Council. As is widely known, the French draft that has Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right that Russia’s been put forward is a chapter VII resolution. proposals on Monday were a very important change of I think it is best at this stage for us to be clear about approach. That is particularly apparent to me, given what a resolution must achieve, rather than set bottom that I have on several occasions over the past couple of lines and red lines in every direction. The test, as I have years discussed with Russian representatives whether set out before, should be a binding commitment for the there is a way of working together on the chemical Syrian regime to give up its chemical weapons within a weapons in Syria. It has always been the Russian position specific time frame, and an agreement that is credible hitherto that the Assad regime would not use its chemical and reliable and that promptly places these chemical weapons—it did not expect it to use them. I think that weapon stocks under international control. The main the mounting evidence that the regime has used those thing is to have a resolution and agreement at the weapons and the discussions, particularly those in the Security Council that fulfils those objectives. We will United States, about whether to take military action keep discussing that with other countries. have produced a change in the Russian position. Whatever the motives and reasons for that, we should nevertheless Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): I welcome welcome it and work with it, which is what we are now the efforts of the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary seeking to do. over recent days. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that achieving international control of Syria’s chemical weapons Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): The Foreign Secretary will require not only the effective use by Russia of its has said that under the Geneva agreement, there should influence in Syria, but truce, safe passage and ceasefire be a transitional Government arrangements, which necessarily link progress on this vital issue with political settlement in Syria? “drawn from regime and opposition by mutual consent”. It has been reported that the Syrian National Coalition Mr Hague: My right hon. Friend is right to draw has said that it will not deal with some figures in the attention, as I did in my statement, to the immense regime. Will there be any preconditions on who may practical difficulties involved. Much of Syria is a contested attend a second Geneva convention to try to establish battlefield and chemical weapons are held in numerous such a transitional Government? locations. Those sites are, of course, all in areas controlled by the regime, not the opposition, so this requires the Mr Hague: The mutual consent clause refers to the full co-operation of the regime, and that, in turn, requires outcome of the creation of a transitional Government. the full diplomatic involvement and pressure of Russia. In our view, it should not refer to who comes to a The coming days will test whether they will be forthcoming. second Geneva conference. It will be up to the regime and the opposition—the national coalition—to nominate Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): We their representatives for the conference. They will need must all pray that there will be an international agreement a significant degree of freedom in doing that, but they ensuring the peaceful removal of these weapons from will have to bear it in mind, when nominating their 1179 Syria12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1180

[Mr Hague] just discussed and particularly because of the threat of military action by the United States. We now have to representatives, that they want a successful outcome. test to the full whether the Syrian regime means what it Mutual consent is about the outcome, not about setting says on this issue. preconditions on who can come. Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): With reference to I thank the Foreign Secretary for coming so promptly, our ongoing humanitarian response, does the Foreign as he regularly does on these matters, to report to the Secretary agree that the creation of a Department for House. I congratulate the Government on increasing International Development-funded, land-based British and sustaining their large humanitarian effort to relieve mobile army surgical hospital capability could play a the terrible suffering of the 6 million homeless people significant part in our response to the Syrian crisis and who are effectively refugees in their own country and in to any future civil war that might afflict the middle east? the surrounding area. I do not want to dwell on the problems—they are nothing compared with what would Mr Hague: Through DFID’s work, we make a huge happen if military action went ahead, let me remind contribution to people’s medical welfare. DFID already him—but is he aware that one of the problems is the provides money for about 300,000 medical consultations composition and attitude of the Syrian national opposition and a wide range of medical supplies. My right hon. alliance? Can he tell us, on a narrow front, who, to the Friend the Secretary of State for International Development best of our knowledge, was responsible for the terrible is constantly reviewing and updating how best we can atrocity and pillaging that took place in the Christian help. She will have heard my hon. Friend’s question. communities, where some of the remaining people still speak a form of Aramaic? Who, in his best judgment, was responsible for that? Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Can the Foreign Secretary explain why in 2012, a year after the Mr Hague: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his civil war in Syria started, a UK firm was granted a earlier remarks. On his specific question, it is very hard licence to sell industrial chemical products that, according for us to know, from outside the country, who is responsible to the Defence Secretary, could be used in processes to for each terrible atrocity. The UN commission of inquiry produce poisonous gases? According to the Business is clear that atrocities have been committed on both Secretary, although the EU sanctions were fortunately sides—by both pro-regime and anti-regime forces. It is tightened, some of those products had already been clear that they are predominantly committed by regime sent to Syria, despite what the Defence Secretary told forces, and we must not lose sight of that. Are there me on 2 September. Perhaps I could have an explanation extremist anti-regime forces that also commit atrocities? and an apology from the Defence Secretary. Yes, there are. In our judgment, that reinforces the need to support the National Coalition and its allies, who are Mr Hague: I think that the hon. Gentleman will find committed to a non-sectarian, secular, democratic pluralist that no such apology is needed. He knows the position Syria. That is why we have to bolster them, given the on this matter. The licences were revoked before the terrible actions carried out by others. chemicals were exported. There is no evidence that the chemicals concerned in those licences were exported to Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Following the question Syria. Licences were granted in earlier years under the from the hon. Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick), previous Government, whom he supported. In fairness it is worth remembering that between 2004 and 2010 the to them, there is no evidence that those goods, if they previous Government allowed chemical weapons to go were exported, were used for anything other than their to Syria with chemical weapons licences, and invited declared commercial purpose. When those two things President Assad to Britain in 2002 to see the Queen. I are taken together, there is no evidence that any such thank my right hon. Friend for all the work he is doing exports have contributed to Syria’s chemical weapons on the humanitarian aid going into Syria, and for the programme. work by organisations such as Save the Children. If all the measures he has set out today do not work, and, Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): We all want to God forbid, there is another serious chemical attack by see chemical weapons removed from Syria’s civil war. the Syrian Government on their citizens, what will be However, does the Foreign Secretary agree that if the the British Government’s response? chemical weapons attacks were unleashed without the authority of the Assad regime, it cannot be credible that Mr Hague: To be clear about licences in previous the regime can put all of Syria’s chemical weapons years that pre-date the current conflict and were granted beyond use? under the previous Government, they were for cosmetics and health care products with legitimate commercial Mr Hague: That is a good point. That is the test. As I use. As I said, there is no evidence that they were set out in my statement, to make this idea work, we misused, and the licences were rigorously assessed against need the genuine co-operation of a regime that has the relevant criteria. The fact that they were granted denied that it has chemical weapons and that has used under the previous Government is something that the them against its own people. We are looking for its hon. Gentleman and others should bear in mind, as my genuine co-operation in ensuring that the chemical stocks hon. Friend says. We have to try to ensure that the full are placed under international control for destruction. range of policies I outlined succeed. Of course, there We have to approach that with great caution. The are many disturbing scenarios by which the crisis in situation has changed for the many reasons that we have Syria could become even worse than it is today, but if it 1181 Syria12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1182 does so, the international community and this House and we have no evidence that they were not used for will have to consider our response. Our emphasis now is that purpose. That is the position. All the normal on making these policies succeed. transparency about these issues will apply. The record shows that the system works, that we have strong export Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): If diplomacy and the controls in this country, and that when licences are threat of military action fails, does the Foreign Secretary revoked, the system works, too. Our strong system agree that air strikes, a no-fly zone and sending missiles should be supported across the House. to various sites in Syria will not, on their own, secure or remove chemical weapons? They could, in fact, give an Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): The Foreign advantage to the opposition and subsequently fall into Secretary said in his statement that Syria has “possibly the hands of extremists. Is it not the case that to secure the largest stock of chemical weapons possessed by any the chemical weapons sites, any strike has to go along nation in the world”. Given the size of Syria’s chemical with a significant ground force? weapons arsenal, its geographic dispersal and the highly mobile nature of most of it, and given the difficulties of Mr Hague: No, I would not agree with that, and identifying and verifying it, what capability does the President Obama made it clear in his address to the UN have to dismantle such a large stockpile of weaponry, United States on Tuesday that he is not now, or at any and will it not inevitably involve the deployment of a stage, proposing the deployment of ground forces in very large number of civilian personnel in-country? Syria. That is not something we have proposed or considered at any stage. I think it is possible to deter the use of chemical weapons without the deployment of Mr Hague: It is a big task, and my hon. Friend is ground forces, but the House made its decision and we quite right to point to it. There are no reliable or precise respect that decision. The shadow Foreign Secretary estimates of the quantities—some estimates have suggested asked about the Prime Minister’s statement in response 1,000 tonnes—and these chemical stocks are likely to be to that. I can assure him that it was agreed collectively held in very different states. Some may be completely by the Government, including by the Foreign Secretary. mixed and ready for use, while others may be precursors that could be mixed at a later stage, so it is a very Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): Will the complex matter. There is considerable expertise in the Foreign Secretary expand on what role British diplomats, Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons— particularly UK representatives at the UN, are currently expertise does exist in the world—but he is quite right playing? that this would be a big exercise, involving a lot of people. That is why, as I have suggested, there are many difficulties in our way, but we are determined to test to Mr Hague: They are playing a very energetic role. We the full whether this can work. are fortunate to have an outstanding team at the UN, which has often succeeded against the odds in a whole series of negotiations on UN Security Council resolutions. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): The Foreign On this issue, they have, depressingly, often been blocked, Secretary’s capacity for self-delusion seems almost infinite. including by actual vetoes, by Russia and China, but Is he not proud that we, this House, led the world— they are working hard with the other permanent members including American popular opinion—in our decision of the Security Council. A meeting took place in New to take not the easy course of an instant military strike, York yesterday afternoon, and there will of course be but the difficult and painstaking course of diplomacy further meetings in which they will be intensively involved and peace building? Did not Iraq and Helmand teach in the coming days. us that thoughtlessly taking the military course leads to great suffering and the loss of soldiers’ and civilian Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): Given lives? the contradictory statements from the Government on the issue of chemicals being exported to Syria—seen in Mr Hague: If the hon. Gentleman thinks that he was responses to parliamentary questions and in the opposing an immediate military strike when he voted correspondence between the Business Secretary and the against the Government’s motion, he is deluding himself Committee on Arms Export Controls—will the Foreign to the most extraordinary extent. That motion called Secretary undertake to do everything he can to ensure for a second vote, for the House to await the findings of that there is full transparency, including over the naming the United Nations inspectors, and for an attempt to be of the British and the Syrian companies involved and made to raise the matter strongly at the United Nations the quantities and particular form of chemicals exported, Security Council. I think that the self-delusion lies with so that we can learn lessons for the future? him. Mr Hague: The Business Secretary and I are always very much in favour of tremendous transparency on Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): It these things, and we make an annual appearance at the has often been said that the international community Committee on Arms Export Controls. As the hon. will hold the Assad regime accountable for the massacre Lady knows, the Government also regularly publish the on 21 August in which than 1,400 people were killed. Is details of such licences and exports. Let me reiterate that still the case, and, if so, how will the international that the licences granted in the most recent period were community hold the regime accountable? revoked, and there is no evidence that exports took I join the Foreign Secretary in paying tribute to place. In the earlier period when licences were granted Sir Mark Lyall Grant, our fantastic ambassador to the under the previous Government, they related to cosmetics United Nations, whom I know well, and who does a and health care products for legitimate commercial use, great job. 1183 Syria12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Syria 1184

Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right: Sir Mark Lyall military action within days, and to dismiss the vote in Grant does a terrific job at the UN, and is working hard the House of Commons and its significance. There is on this issue now. now an opportunity for diplomatic discussions to take The question of accountability is very important, not place, but is the Foreign Secretary concerned about the just in relation to chemical weapons, but in relation to possibility that talk of military action will give one side so much of what has happened in Syria over the past or the other the impression that it may gain an advantage two and a half years. I think that, in the United Kingdom, if military action goes ahead? Has he considered what we would generally be able to agree that the International the implications of that are for the success of the Criminal Court should address it in due course, or that diplomatic discussions? the Syrians should be able to address it themselves in their own country, with adequate procedures, in the Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman needs to catch up future. However, we cannot get that option through the with events. There was no proposition about military Security Council at present, because, again, it would be action in my statement today. That is not what the blocked by Russia. Government are proposing. All our efforts are aimed at relieving humanitarian suffering and pursuing a diplomatic Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): The Prime Minister track. Nor have I suggested at any moment that the vote said that he “got it” two weeks ago when the House of of the House of Commons was insignificant. I said that Commons voted, but, following the Foreign Secretary’s the Government fully respected the vote of the House remarks today, I am not sure what message he received of Commons. He should not put words into my mouth, from that vote. Does he think that it was irrelevant in and he should catch up with what is going on in the relation to subsequent events? world.

Mr Hague: I think we are very clear about what we Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): The longer are doing here, and I hope the whole House is united on the Syrian civil war goes on, the more powerful the it. In the last few days circumstances have changed extremist elements of the opposition become. We heard significantly, with the Russian position changing. I take from the hon. Member for Coventry North West it from what was said by the shadow Foreign Secretary (Mr Robinson) about attacks on the Syrian Christian that we are agreed in the House—and there should be community. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary strong unity on this—that we should test to establish says that we want to support the Syrian National Coalition whether what we are proposing can be successfully to make sure that more moderate voices are heard and brought about. It needs to be credible, it needs to be remain dominant. May I push him to say what we are reliable, and it needs to be prompt. The change in the doing to make sure that those moderate voices remain position has come about because of the international dominant? pressure over this issue—because of the pressure on the Assad regime—which includes the debate about military action in the United States. That is what has brought Mr Hague: We do that through the support that we about the change in the Russian position. give to the Syrian National Coalition. I set out to other hon. Friends a moment ago the range of the assistance Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) that we give to the National Coalition, which is to save (Con): While I welcome the fact that the Russians have lives, to help it to function and operate, and to give it come to the table as far as a diplomatic solution is every possible diplomatic support in pursuing a course concerned, and their donation of—I understand— that is moderate, democratic, non-sectarian and pluralistic £20 million in overseas aid, we cannot forget that they with respect to the future of Syria, and those are things have been partly responsible for the arming of the which it greatly values and for which it is very grateful Assad regime. Can my right hon. Friend tell me how to the United Kingdom. Of course, it has often asked much money we are putting in, and what it is being used for additional support, including for lethal support for? from other countries. We have taken no decision to provide that, but we will continue to look at the additional support that we can give it. Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the arming of the regime. If he is asking about the money that we are giving to the opposition—to the Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): National Coalition—I can tell him that it amounts to Is the Foreign Secretary concerned that despite ongoing more than £20 million so far, for non-lethal equipment. efforts, chemical weapons could be moved to Hezbollah It is predominantly equipment that saves lives: for instance, in Lebanon? water purification kits, generators, communications equipment that makes it easier for people to find out Mr Hague: It is one of the great dangers of any about regime attacks, and body armour. I think that, country possessing chemical weapons that they could together with our humanitarian work, shows that the be moved to somebody else, including organisations United Kingdom is at the forefront of the attempt to that might be prepared to use them. I have no evidence save lives and alleviate suffering in Syria. that that has happened, so for the moment I think we can be reassuring about that, but any programme for Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): It is the duty of every the destruction of the chemical weapons or for securing Member of Parliament to ensure that every diplomatic the chemical weapons of Syria must bear in mind the avenue has been exhausted before we put our service risk of them falling into the wrong hands along the way. people in harm’s way, or put civilians at risk. It is That therefore places the great premium that all of us in disingenuous of the Foreign Secretary to suggest that the House are placing on this process if it can be agreed Parliament was recalled with the intention of our taking and be credible, reliable and enforceable. 1185 Syria 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 1186

Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab): I am relatively Royal Mail new here and I wonder whether the Foreign Secretary can explain something to me because I am puzzled. We were called back some weeks ago. If military action was 12.3 pm not imminent, why on earth were we called back? The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Michael Fallon): With permission, Mr Speaker, Mr Hague: As the Prime Minister made very clear at I wish to make a statement on the future of Royal Mail. the time, because we wanted to consult the House at the earliest opportunity about a huge crisis. We did consult This is an important day for Royal Mail, its employees the House and the House gave an answer to that in not and its customers. This morning my right hon. Friend approving the Government motion, but that is why the the Secretary of State laid a written ministerial statement House was recalled. Hon. Members have often advocated before the House reporting that the Government have recalling the House in order to debate something at an made a formal announcement of our intention to float early opportunity. Despite being new, the hon. Gentleman Royal Mail on the premium segment of the London might find that he is doing that at some stage in the stock exchange. This follows the report and the statement future. by my right hon. Friend to the House on 10 July setting out our plans to conduct an initial public offering of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Foreign Royal Mail shares during this financial year. Secretary for his statement. Prior to any action taking The sale of shares will complete the final part of the place, what discussion has he had with other Governments Government’s reform of the postal sector, which Parliament in the region, in particular Israel, who have serious debated and decided over two years ago. The overall concerns about chemical weapons? objective of our reform is to continue to secure the universal postal service—the six-days-a-week, same-price- Mr Hague: We will want to consult all nations in the goes-anywhere service—which is vital to our economy. region. Israel has long-standing concerns, of course, We have already put in place a proper regulatory framework about Syria’s chemical weapons stocks, and for very and given Ofcom stronger powers to take the action good reason. I believe that it and, I hope, all nations in necessary to protect the universal service. We have taken the region would be supportive of a reliable, credible on Royal Mail’s historical pension liabilities, which were agreement for the securing and destruction of those crippling the company’s financial position. weapons stocks, but it will be important for the permanent Our reforms, together with the hard work of employees members of the Security Council and others to consult in modernising the business, have put Royal Mail on the all the nations in the region. road to sustainable health. But under the restrictions of public ownership, its core mail business has lurched between profit and loss and has made a loss in five of the past 12 years. It has lost more than £1 billion, and during that period some 50,000 jobs were lost. The sale of shares will give Royal Mail the commercial freedom it needs to succeed in a fully liberalised, competitive market. It will give the company future access to the private sector capital it needs for investment and to seize the opportunities for growth, such as increasing parcel volumes arising from the boom in online shopping, a market now estimated to be worth £76 billion. It will give Royal Mail commercial confidence, free from Whitehall interference. As set out in this morning’s announcement of the intention to float, shares will be made available to institutions and members of the public through intermediaries or via direct application to the Government. When the public offering goes ahead, 10% of the shares will be allocated to around 150,000 eligible Royal Mail employees for free through an employee share scheme. Through that scheme, the Government will be delivering in full on the commitment to employees that Parliament made two years ago. It will be the largest employee share scheme of any major privatisation for 30 years. The Government will take forward the sale and Royal Mail will publish its prospectus in the coming weeks. We will retain flexibility on the precise timetable, which will be announced at a later stage, just as we will retain flexibility around the size of the stake to be sold, but we intend to dispose of a majority of the shares in the company, taking into account shares sold and the 10% of shares that will be made available to employees through the share scheme. The final size of the stake sold through the public offering will be influenced by 1187 Royal Mail12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Royal Mail 1188

[Michael Fallon] 12.11 pm Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): I thank the market conditions, investor demand and our objective Minister for his statement and for coming to the House of ensuring that value for money for the taxpayer is today, following his intention-to-float announcement to achieved. the stock exchange this morning. Let us start by putting I and Royal Mail’s management fully recognise and on record our thanks to all the staff at Royal Mail for understand the work force’s natural apprehensions about all that they do, and for their dedication to delivering the sale. I have continued to meet the union regularly the mail, come rain or shine, to all parts of the country. over the past year to discuss those concerns. I want to Royal Mail is a much-cherished national institution. reassure employees that a change of Royal Mail’s ownership The case for the privatisation of Royal Mail has not will not trigger any change in their terms and conditions. been made. Its recent annual profits were more than The Communication Workers Union will continue to be £400 million and we should be allowing it to flourish in their recognised representative and their pensions will the public sector, but the Minister has told the stock continue to be governed by the trustees. exchange today that he will sell a majority stake in the company, on a shortened timetable. He is pushing ahead As part of a three-year agreement, Royal Mail is also with this politically motivated fire sale to fill the hole in prepared to give legally binding assurances on: the the Treasury created by George Osborne’s failed economic continuation of a predominantly full-time work force; a plan. commitment to provide and enhance existing services to customers using the current work force, with no change This decision will have significant impacts on consumers, to the current structure of the company in relation to businesses and communities up and down the country. those services; and no additional outsourcing of services. The Government are pressing ahead with the fire sale of Royal Mail and the union are discussing those assurances, Royal Mail despite having failed to answer critical questions along with a new pay deal and reform proposals on the on the six-days-a-week, one-price-goes-anywhere universal pension fund. I do not believe that industrial action will service obligation. The Minister has failed to ensure the help the situation, and it will certainly not prevent the long-term maintenance of the USO. He claims that it is sale going forward. written in legislation, but I am sure that he can envisage a scenario in which a privatised Royal Mail comes to Following last week’s debate on the postal services in the Government and asks for alterations to that legislation. rural areas, I want to reassure the House once again Why is that a realistic scenario? It is because the that a change in Royal Mail’s ownership does not, and regulatory environment does not prevent the cherry-picking cannot, trigger any change in the provision of the of the most profitable parts of Royal Mail by rival universal postal service. companies that operate under much lower service standards As universal service provider, Royal Mail will continue than Royal Mail. If the USO becomes unsustainable, to be obliged to deliver to urban and rural areas alike, the Government will have no choice but to alter it. six days a week, at the same affordable prices. Changes Royal Mail will still have to deliver daily to Shetland to the uniform nature of that service would require new while its rivals enjoy providing services in London, primary legislation. The Government have no plans for Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh and other profitable any such changes. Changes to the universal service’s centres. Pressure will be put on the Government to minimum requirements, which include free services for respond to such requests to alter the USO; otherwise, the blind and services to urban and rural areas alike, what is there to prevent the privatised Royal Mail from can be made only by affirmative resolutions in both handing back the USO keys, just as we have witnessed Houses. The Government have no plans for such changes. with the east coast main line? The result will be that the Any suggestion that the privatisation of Royal Mail will taxpayer will, ultimately, pick up the costs. lead to changes in the universal service are therefore Concerns have been expressed about higher prices. completely unfounded. Other privatised companies have already set precedents in that area. One of the questions posed in the Government’s I also want to reassure the House about the Post documents today is whether the Post Office will be Office—the company that operates the network of post affected. The Minister says no, but the 10-year inter-business offices. The Post Office is now separate from Royal agreement can be reviewed in four years, and it can be Mail, and it is not for sale. There will be no repeat by altered if there are material adverse effects on either of this Government of the closure programme that the the two companies. How can the Minister say that this Labour party implemented. Far form it; this Government privatisation does not affect the post office network? A are committed to ensuring a sustainable future for the privatised Royal Mail will want to look closely at costs, Post Office. We are providing funding of £1.34 billion over and that £380 million annual contract could be a good four years to maintain a network of at least 11,500 branches place to start. and to ensure that 90% of the population live within 1 mile of a Post Office outlet. That is the largest investment The National Federation of SubPostmasters tells us in the Post Office’s history, and it will also enable the that the privatisation of Royal mail threatens the future modernisation of up to 6,000 branches. of the post office network and, as a result, it now opposes the privatisation. It has called it a “reckless This is a significant day for Royal Mail, and the sale gamble”, and we should listen to what it says. It is not of shares will complete our reform of the postal sector. only the NFSP that is against the move. Despite the We want Royal Mail to have the real commercial freedom £2,000 shares bribe to the staff of Royal Mail, a massive that it needs to compete and to ensure the universal 96% of them voted against the privatisation, on a service that consumers and businesses rightly value. turnout of over 75%. Moreover, they already own That is what our reform will deliver, and I commend the company. A poll in The Sunday Times last week this statement to the House. showed 70% of the public to be against it, and former 1189 Royal Mail12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Royal Mail 1190

Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher, the architect of home every day because there is not enough work for privatisation, said that it was a step too far. The Bow them—into the most profitable areas will put pressure Group, a right-wing Tory think-tank, said that it would on a privatised Royal Mail to cut the terms and conditions be deeply unpopular and should not be considered. A of its work force and to cut the service for customers? vast coalition of groups and organisations echo the concerns about prices, the maintenance of the USO and Michael Fallon: There is already competition in the the impact on the Post Office. And the Minister himself postal market from companies such as TNT, but Royal said in a letter in 2009 that he was against the privatisation Mail management have made it clear in their discussions of Royal Mail. The problem is that the Government with the union that there will be no change to the work cannot see the wood for the ideological trees. force’s current terms and conditions, and they are prepared Let me ask the Minister four questions. He said in his to sign an agreement with the union on that basis. statement: “Changes to the universal service’s minimum requirements, which include free services for the blind Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): Does my and services to urban and rural areas alike, can be made right hon. Friend believe that the union is opposed only by affirmative resolutions in both Houses.” Would because that is Labour policy or that Labour is opposed that involve primary or secondary legislation, and would because that is the union’s policy? Will anything in the such legislation be dealt with on the Floor of the House announcement stop the Communication Workers Union or in Committee? Secondly, in what circumstances can continuing to support Labour’s constituency party he envisage the USO being revised? Thirdly, what assurances development plans, which strike me as rather political? can he give us that the inter-business agreement with the Post Office will not be removed or revised? Fourthly, Michael Fallon: No, I do not think that anything in when will the prospectus be drawn up and made available? the agreement will stop that continuing relationship, This is the largest privatisation since that of British Gas. but we are still waiting for an answer from the Labour The Government are playing politics with the Queen’s party on whether it will respond to the union’s call to head, and they should think again before it is too late. renationalise this company, should we ever be unfortunate enough to have Labour in government again. Michael Fallon: I do not think that we can legitimately be accused of conducting a fire sale, given that the Sir (Gainsborough) (Con): Given that previous Government were proposing to privatise the we started this process in the old Department of Trade company four years ago. The process has hardly been and Industry 21 years ago, this must be the longest fire rushed. A lot of people were against that sale; it was a sale in history. It was apparent then, as it is apparent half-baked sale and almost every Labour MP was against now, that if Royal Mail is to grow it must have commercial it, which is why it was abandoned. freedom. At the same time, it is possible through primary I have already made it clear to the House that the legislation to protect the universal service—the stamp universal service obligation is laid down in statute. It costs the same in rural Lincolnshire as in London. We can be changed only by Parliament, and we have no said that 21 years ago and we have been saying it ever plans to ask Parliament to change it. I can give the hon. since. When will Labour Members start to listen? Gentleman an absolute assurance in that respect. He asked me about the minimum requirements of the service. Michael Fallon: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who They can be changed by affirmative resolution, which played a part at an earlier stage of the story. A lot of would involve secondary legislation. We have no plans progress has been made since then in tackling the pension to alter those requirements. They will be properly policed deficit, setting up a proper regulatory framework and by the regulator and will apply irrespective of any separating Royal Mail from the Post Office, but he is change in ownership. The price of stamps is also regulated. right to emphasise the key point: Royal Mail needs The price of a second-class stamp is capped by the commercial freedom to invest in its future. The private regulator, and we have no plans to change that position post in Germany, Deutsche Post, is spending about either. £600 million a year in modernising its network and in The hon. Gentleman asked me about the relationship automating, and Royal Mail needs the freedom to invest between the Post Office and Royal Mail. They are similarly. natural partners in the delivery business, and it is unthinkable that they would not seek to work closely Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab): What credibility can together. They have done more than that, however. Last we attach to the Minister’s promises on the universal April, they signed a 10-year commercial agreement to service when The Daily Telegraph reported last December provide for the two businesses to work more closely that Ministers were pressing for a reduction in the together. commitment to first-class deliveries being provided We heard nothing from the hon. Gentleman about universally? Is not that the beginning of a slippery slope what a future Labour Government would do. It seems that the public fear over privatisation, and why is he not extraordinary that, four years on, the Opposition still imposing the same obligation on competitors to Royal have not worked out a policy. Even now, they cannot Mail, such as TNT, to deliver to every house in the land, say whether Royal Mail should be public or private; which Royal Mail has and which is costly to it while they cannot make up their mind whether they would competitors cream off the most profitable business? renationalise the company if there were ever to be a Labour Government again. Michael Fallon: This is not a promise or pledge from me that the right hon. Gentleman and his constituents Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): Does need to rely on; it is a law—an Act of Parliament—that the Minister not accept that bringing companies such as the universal service has to continue to be provided. TNT—which uses zero-hours contracts and sends people That law can be changed only by the House. We have 1191 Royal Mail12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Royal Mail 1192

[Michael Fallon] consumer. The only difference between now and then is that those lickspittle Lib Dems have joined the Tories to absolutely no plans to change it. It is up to the regulator privatise this one. What an utter disgrace. to ensure that competition is proper in that market and that the universal service provision is properly provided Michael Fallon: I do recall hearing roughly the same by Royal Mail. sentiments from the hon. Gentleman back in the 1980s, but I do not want to return to a world where people Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Yesterday waited weeks and months for a phone to be installed. Is morning, I met some RAF personnel who have just he really suggesting that we go back to the days when returned from six-month tours in Afghanistan, and I the state owned car companies, electricity, gas, water know the importance they put on the mail and parcels and all the rest? Let me be clear about his allegation that they receive while serving our country overseas. that the consumer could be ripped off: the price of the Will my right hon. Friend say what arrangements are in second-class stamp will continue to be regulated and place for armed forces personnel serving overseas? will be set by the regulator. It will not be possible for Royal Mail to increase prices in the way he suggests. Michael Fallon: The postal service will continue. It is funded by the Ministry of Defence in agreement with Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): I welcome the transfer Royal Mail. of shares from Royal Mail to the Royal Mail workers, but will my right hon. Friend reassure my constituents Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): in Harlow that we will not go the way of the water As organising secretary of the communications group companies, where the directors paid themselves huge in this place for the 20 years I have been here, I am not wages and increased prices for consumers? Will he set surprised that the Minister is the person bringing this out the consumer protection? forward—domesday for Royal Mail is reality—but when someone gets old they will do anything to get into a Michael Fallon: Let me reassure my hon. Friend ministerial car, I suppose. absolutely that there are no deal bonuses for the senior The point is that the Postal Services Act 2011 is management as part of the share sale. The protection deeply flawed, because it will allow a Minister in a for the consumer has been laid down by the House in future Government—or even this Minister, although he the Postal Services Act 2011, which he will recall—I will not do it before 2014—to go to a Statutory Instrument hope—voting for two years ago. The regulation is set Committee, not the Floor of the House, and destroy all out there and the price of the stamp will continue to be the things that are guaranteed at the moment. Is it not capped by the regulator. true that, although there might not be enough money to renationalise the industry after it is given to the private Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Does sector, only a Labour vote will guarantee that the universal not the Government’s insistence on flogging off Royal service and the terms and conditions of employment in Mail demonstrate their pursuit of ideology rather than the Act will be sustained by a future Government? evidence, given that Royal Mail is doing pretty well and is in profit? Will the Minister guarantee that profits Michael Fallon: This Government have put the protection following the sell-off will be invested in what is good for in place that the universal service has to continue and be Britain, rather than what is good for a handful of provided irrespective of the ownership of Royal Mail. shareholders? Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): The employee share percentage is not as high as originally advocated Michael Fallon: There will be many more than a by the Liberal Democrats, but it is nevertheless the most handful of shareholders; I hope that Royal Mail will significant in many decades. Has the Minister heard have millions of owners in the future. Let me absolutely from the Communication Workers Union that it welcomes reassure the hon. Lady on one part of her question: that significant advance in worker ownership? there will be continuing regulation of the price of the stamp by the regulator and the universal service will continue to be protected. Neither will change with the Michael Fallon: I have had discussions with the union change in ownership. about the details of the employee share scheme. At the moment, the union is opposing privatisation, but my hon. Friend will recall that the unions have opposed Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): It is true that previous privatisations, yet their own members have privatisation is not always the right way forward for taken the schemes up. I will be interested to see how public services, and as secretary of the all-party many members of the Communication Workers Union parliamentary group for post offices I am clear that it is opt out of the free shares that are being made available. not the way forward for post offices. Therefore, I welcome the Minister’s complete reassurance today that post Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Does the Minister offices are separate and will remain in public service. recall—he probably does—that in the late ’80s we had a However, I believe that the only way for the business wholesale privatisation of almost all the public utilities, of Royal Mail to grow is to have that chance to invest in with the exception of this one? That was under what new technology, so that it can track parcels, compete Mrs Thatcher called the share-owning democracy. It is with its competitors, win business, grow, employ more almost as if I can hear the same words from the Dispatch people in Britain and export its services abroad so that Box today. What happened to that share-owning it can become a global brand and a great British success. democracy? Almost without exception, the public utilities Does the Minister agree that this is the right way are now owned abroad and are ripping off the British forward for a successful Royal Mail? 1193 Royal Mail12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Royal Mail 1194

Michael Fallon: Yes, this is one of Britain’s biggest constituents, we will certainly let him have details of the businesses and the biggest delivery company in Britain, website and so on. It is fairly standard to set a minimum and it is a profitable company in a fast-growing market, threshold—for example, it was £1,000 in the recent particularly the parcels market. There are huge opportunities Direct Line public offering—and the amount simply as online shopping develops—it is more developed in reflects standard practice. We hope there will be sufficient this country than in some European countries, so there opportunity for retail participation, as I would not like are huge opportunities at home and in Europe for Royal members of the public who wish to subscribe to miss Mail. It needs, however, commercial freedom and access out. to capital markets to take full advantage of those opportunities. Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): To build on a previous question by my hon. Friend the Member for Several hon. Members rose— Colne Valley (Jason McCartney), will the Minister confirm what protections will be in place to protect the excellent Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. discounted delivery service for armed forces personnel Members must ask questions and leave short speeches serving overseas? for another day if we are to allow everybody to contribute to the statement. Quick questions and short answers Michael Fallon: Those arrangements will continue. will help us enormously. That is an arrangement between the Ministry of Defence and Royal Mail, and both parties have every interest in Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): The Government cannot ensuring it continues. There will be no change for have it both ways. They cannot have a regulatory regime members of the armed forces. that allows services to be cherry-picked where profitable by the jackals that will buy Royal Mail, and then say Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): The Minister makes they will protect the universal service. We all know it much of the protection for consumers, but Ofcom has will be broken up, but will the Minister say whether his already shown its true colours by abandoning all price description of the universal service requires people to caps other than that for second-class mail. Does the collect their mail from a central collection point, rather Minister realise that experience of previous privatisations than its being delivered door to door? means that no one outside his Government believes that the regulator will give consumers protection on either Michael Fallon: The universal obligation is set out by services or prices? the regulator and is not—and cannot be—affected by the change in ownership. Any change to the universal Michael Fallon: The regulator is independent of the obligation would be made by this House, and as I have Government, Ministers and this House, and it is not said, we have no plans to change that. On cherry-picking possible for it to change legislation that we have passed. and so on, it is for the regulator to police the market The cap remains in place. and ensure there are no unfair practices. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): My constituents in Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): May I Northumberland want a six-days-a-week universal service, congratulate the Minister on delivering a deal that but with incentives and shares for staff, and want Royal many other Governments failed to deliver? Even the Mail to have the commercial freedom to invest, innovate prince of darkness failed on this one. Instead, the and compete with online and other providers. Will the Minister is giving Royal Mail hope and a vision for the proposal address the problems that successive Governments future. Does he agree that for my rural constituents in have failed to address over successive decades? north Yorkshire, innovation from the private sector, combined with the service obligation guarantee, could Michael Fallon: Yes, I believe it will. It will give Royal mean better services in the future? Mail the chance to face its future not just with confidence but with access to capital markets and the commercial Michael Fallon: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for freedoms it needs to respond to new opportunities, what he has said. Today’s announcement builds on particularly in a rapidly growing parcels market. work done by the House in passing postal service legislation, and by my two Liberal Democrat predecessors in getting Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- us to the position we are in today. Yes, there is every op): The Minister has repeatedly mentioned the cap on opportunity for Royal Mail to face its future with the cost of a stamp. Will he confirm that that relates confidence, access to capital markets and new commercial only to second-class mail? Does he understand the freedoms, and every reason to expect the service to concerns of many small businesses that rely on first-class continue to improve. mail, and what assurances can he give them?

Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Given that the Michael Fallon: There is a cap on the second-class minimum purchase of shares is £750, will the Minister stamp, and a provision that the first-class stamp must explain how my low-paid constituents such as pensioners be affordable—something the regulator must keep a or the unemployed will retain a stake in what they close eye on. It is not simply the second-class stamp. already own? Is this a transfer from us all to the richest in society? Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Has the Minister read the statement on saveourroyalmail.org: Michael Fallon: I thought the Labour party opposed “If the Royal Mail is sold off affordable prices, rural services this privatisation, but if there are ways we can help the and free postal services for our service men and women as well as right hon. Gentleman make it more accessible to his vulnerable groups will disappear”? 1195 Royal Mail12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Royal Mail 1196

[Charlie Elphicke] whether it would renationalise the business. I hope that someone from that party will make its position clear Will he confirm whether that statement is true or whether before we go much further into this statement. it is so false and misleading that the Advertising Standards Authority might intervene? Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): I declare an interest in that I worked for Ofcom before Michael Fallon: A number of unfortunate scare stories entering the House. From that experience, I know that have been put about in connection with this sale, but I the only way that natural monopoly networks of this emphasise that there is no threat to existing arrangements type work in the private sector is when we have real for the blind or the armed forces. Those arrangements competition at the infrastructure level on the ground, as are not being changed by this announcement. in telecoms. Is the Minister truly proposing that we will have multiple posties delivering to doorsteps from North Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): Devon to Newcastle, or will we end up with another Is the Minister aware that in Coventry, particularly in bloated private sector monopoly vested interest, as we my constituency, there will be widespread relief that have seen in water, energy and rail? post offices are being left out of this privatisation? Just a few weeks ago I had the honour of opening a newly Michael Fallon: This is not a monopoly market at the modernised and already highly successful post office moment. There are companies competing in the facility, which shows that companies in public ownership marketplace, as they have to do under European law. can do well and services can be maintained. This House has decided that there should be that competition in that particular way and has established Michael Fallon: I am glad the hon. Gentleman was Ofcom, for which the hon. Lady used to work, to able to take some credit for Government investment in supervise that competition. his local post office, and I am sure he drew the attention of his constituents to the fact that it was due to this Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Residents in Government’s money and commitment to modernising the borough of Kettering and across Northamptonshire the network. I did the same when I had the honour of very much value their local post offices. Can the Minister opening a newly modernised post office in my constituency confirm that those post offices will not form part of the a few weeks ago. Let me be clear: the Government are Royal Mail privatisation, and indeed will be subject to not privatising the Post Office. What is being put up for record additional new investment? Can he also assure sale is Royal Mail—the delivery part of the business. the posties who work in the Kettering delivery office The Post Office will remain in public ownership. that their terms and conditions will not change, and they will be entitled to free shares in up to 10% of Royal Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): Post Mail? offices in Plymouth and rural Devon are a vital resource. Will the Minister say whether a mechanism exists so Michael Fallon: I confirm that the Government are that if the private company decides to break the link committing more than £1.3 billion to modernise the with the Post Office post 2022, Parliament and the post office network and I can also confirm that all those Government will have some say in the matter to protect eligible for Royal Mail shares—those employed by Royal the public interest? Mail at the time of the statement on 10 July—will be eligible for free shares. More details will be published Michael Fallon: The agreement is, I think, the longest with the final share offer. possible under European Union law—as the hon. Lady said, it is a 10-year agreement taking us to 2022. As I Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and said in an earlier answer, it is pretty unthinkable that Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): Can the Minister help the Royal Mail and the Post Office would not want to House with an urgent missing persons case? Where is continue a close working relationship, but it is, of course, the Minister with responsibility for postal affairs? Is she up to the House to scrutinise that agreement any way it in hiding because it is only with the help of Liberal wants. Democrat votes that a privatisation that even Mrs Thatcher thought was beyond the pale can go ahead? Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): The Labour party in my constituency is so committed to Royal Mail Michael Fallon: This is a statement about Royal Mail, that on the rare occasions it delivers literature, it chooses although I have also given assurances about the future to use Royal Mail’s private sector competitors to do so. of the Post Office. This is a coalition policy that was in Those same people have being saying publicly that the the coalition agreement and Ministers across the coalition Government are selling off the Post Office. Will the have worked on it. My two immediate predecessors with Minister confirm for their benefit that the Post Office responsibility for Royal Mail were Liberal Democrat will not be sold off, and may I urge him to go further Ministers, and I have had support throughout this and demand an apology from the Labour party for the process from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of vast number of post offices it closed in communities in State. my constituency? (Llanelli) (Lab): In the fattening up for Michael Fallon: I do not think we are likely to get an privatisation we have already seen price hikes and the apology for the extensive and damaging closure programme ending of 7 pm collections in many towns. What guarantees for which the previous Government were responsible, can the Minister give that there will be no further but at the very least the work force of the Royal Mail is erosion of collection, such as the getting rid of post entitled to some statement from the Labour party as to boxes, fewer collections later in the day and some rural 1197 Royal Mail12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Royal Mail 1198 post offices not even having collections every day? What plans. Is the Minister aware that they have been joined guarantees can he give about the delivery of parcels six this morning by TNT, which described his plans in The days a week? None of those issues are fully covered by Daily Telegraph as the legislation. “preposterous…bad for consumers, bad for business”? Is he not increasingly isolated about what is in the best Michael Fallon: I reassure the hon. Lady that all interests of the industry and of the country? those matters are covered by the licence conditions under which the Royal Mail operates. The licence is Michael Fallon: It sounds as though TNT is a little given by Ofcom, and it is for that body to ensure that nervous about a more competitive and better financed the licence conditions are adhered to. Royal Mail. We will see how many of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents working at that sorting office choose to opt Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): What Royal Mail out of the share scheme in the next few weeks. needs is new investment, upgrading and modernisation within continuity of service. Can the Minister give an Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): indication of the additional investment that will take The Minister continues to refute the allegation that this place as a result of the sale of shares in Royal Mail? is a fire sale, but as 70% of people in this country are totally opposed to such privatisation, will not the flotation Michael Fallon: I told the House of the scale of occur in an atmosphere in which the basic share price investment now being made by the privatised German will automatically be reduced, so the taxpayer will have postal service, Deutsche Post. That £600 million of been cheated? investment gives us an idea of the scale of investment Michael Fallon: It is one of the primary objectives of that may be needed to help modernise. The Royal Mail the sale to secure maximum value for money for the has to modernise its network, invest in its infrastructure taxpayer, and of course it will be subject to scrutiny in and automate more of its parcels business. It can no this House, as previous sales have been, and by the longer compete for scarce public resources with schools National Audit Office. and hospitals that will always have priority over such investment. It is absurd to have a company of that size Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): The as the only really big British business that cannot access Minister can say what he wants about the work force the private capital that it needs. That will end. having a say because it owns 10% of the company, but within a couple of years those shares will be sold. That Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): Many of my constituents is what happened at Rolls-Royce. The public will be the have contacted me to say that they oppose this privatisation. loser because they will not get any benefit from the They recall similar promises of improved services made billions of pounds that have been invested in the service. when the utilities were privatised, and few people could It should remain where it is, and the public should get be found today who believe that happened. Why does the benefit of its profitability. the Minister think that a majority of the British people are opposed to his policy? Michael Fallon: One point of agreement between the union and me has been the need to ensure longevity so Michael Fallon: There are members of the public who that the shares are held, not sold off the next day, by the do not yet fully understand how Royal Mail has been work force. They will have to hold the shares for a separated from the Post Office and who have chosen to minimum of three years before they are able to sell. believe some of the untrue scare stories that have been During that time, they will receive dividends and be able put around. The hon. Gentleman will also recall that to vote on the future policy of the company, and day by almost every privatisation that I can remember has day they will see the actual share price. initially been opposed—or failed to command universal (Scunthorpe) (Lab): The Minister struggled support—but nobody now suggests that we reverse to answer the question by my hon. Friend the Member those privatisations of the 1980s. for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), so I will give him another go. Can he guarantee that the Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): Royal Mail, with the Queen’s head on its stamps, will My constituents are concerned that a national asset—our continue to remain UK-owned and UK-headquartered? Royal Mail—will end up in foreign ownership. What guarantee can the Minister give that that will not happen? Michael Fallon: It will of course be UK-headquartered. It will have multiple owners after privatisation. Those Michael Fallon: By the end of the privatisation process, who are located in the UK are able to apply for shares the Royal Mail will have multiple owners, including the on the issue. We are not restricting the issue to UK work force itself, which will own 10% of the business. citizens or UK nationals. Anybody located here can We have chosen not to sell Royal Mail to another mail invest in the business through the retail offer. Having a operator or a single private equity owner, but to make multiple ownership is the best possible protection for this a public offering so that Royal Mail will have the company. I repeat that we deliberately decided not millions of new owners. The hon. Lady should also to sell the company to a single owner or single private consider the opportunities for Royal Mail in international equity company. markets. Royal Mail already has a subsidiary, GLS, and there will be huge opportunities for it to win more Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East business overseas and across Europe. Cleveland) (Lab): TNT, one of Royal Mail’s competitors, provides the core service in Holland on a similar basis Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): The to the Royal Mail, with VAT exemptions. However, the hard-working staff of Scotland’s largest sorting office, universal service obligation in Holland and across much based in my constituency, are very much against these of the EU is very different from the UK USO—it is on a 1199 Royal Mail 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 1200 [Tom Blenkinsop] Backbench Business five-day basis. The Minister knows that his Government’s Postal Services Act 2011 allows him to go upstairs and, through a statutory instrument, change the USO from Child Protection six days to five days. Will he do that in the future?

Michael Fallon: No, it is not possible to change the 12.53 pm six-day service through a statutory instrument. That Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): can only be changed by this House. As I have said, we I beg to move, have absolutely no plans to change that obligation. That this House has considered child protection in the UK. Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): In his statement, I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee the Minister gave some commitments on the future of for giving Members the opportunity to debate this the Royal Mail. Will he go one step further and give important subject. As a precautionary measure, I declare some guarantees that there will be no job losses, no my related interests as in the register. move to increase part-time working, no closures of As I have said on many occasions, opportunities to sorting offices, and a continuation of the much-loved debate and air issues of child protection or of children Saturday delivery? generally are frustratingly rare, as I found in opposition and as Minister with responsibility for these matters, so Michael Fallon: Let us be clear: there have been today’s debate is welcome. It is particularly important 50,000 job losses in the last 10 years of public ownership, because child protection and child abuse, in its different so public ownership is no guarantee of job security. The forms, have probably never had a higher profile, and best guarantee of job security is to be able to work for a have never triggered such a response and awareness company that is growing and investing in its future, and among the public at large, which is probably the one able to access the finance it needs. The management of compensation of the whole sordid affair. Royal Mail have put on the table a series of assurances That is why, a year on from Savile, I and other hon. about future terms and conditions, which they hope the Members requested a debate on child protection. union will come to agree before we get to the point of The extraordinary turn of events started to unravel privatisation. almost a year ago when the media heralded a modest but game-changing ITV documentary—produced by (East Ham) (Lab): The Minister has Mark Williams-Thomas, to whom I pay tribute for told us that the price of a second-class stamp will be what he has set in motion as a result—which first regulated, but that will not reassure people who pay tentatively suggested that Jimmy Savile had abused regulated energy bills. What grounds does he have for teenage girls as young as 13. It seemed incredible that his assurance that price control will be effective in the the semi-beatified, spangly shell-suited former Bevin case of Royal Mail? boy, “Top of the Pops” doyen, children’s TV icon and multi-charity philanthropist had so successfully hidden Michael Fallon: The price control arrangements were his alter ego as a serious sexual predator, and a pretty set by this House, and they are for Ofcom to regulate. prolific and grubby one at that. The rest, of course, is Ofcom has capped the price of a second-class stamp, history.The initial Guardian headline about some 10 female which cannot rise higher than 55p. It is not at that level victims having come forward was one of its more glaring yet, but that is the cap imposed by Ofcom. Ministers underestimates. The number of victims was then upgraded cannot interfere with that. to some 300, some of them possibly as young as nine years old, and the figure is now in excess of 600. The ramifications for the BBC, for the rest of the establishment and for the public profile of child abuse, however, have been huge. It is worth briefly reviewing what has come to light over the past year. There has been , which concentrated on the Savile case—600 people have come forward as having been abused by Jimmy Savile over a 60-year period. There are records of people who said that they were turned away when they reported abuse suffered at his hands. Six former police officers admitted that they were aware of Savile’s behaviour, with extensive evidence of cover-ups and withholding of information leading to abuse continuing over such a long period, including against children, teenage fans and kids in hospitals and care homes. We have seen the recent conviction of for assaults spanning some 18 years on at least 13 girls, and a panoply of assorted comedians, publicists, entertainers, soap stars and childhood icons at various stages of arrest, investigation or facing court. Senior heads have rolled at the BBC, and its inquiry is said to have cost the licence fee payer in excess of £10 million already. 1201 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1202

Operation Pallial has investigated the original claims I make no apology for what is a grim reading list, of historical abuse at children’s homes in north Wales involving cases that have been instigated, reopened, going back to the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s and ’90s. There has proceeded with through the courts or investigated in been a review by Mrs Justice Macur of the terms of the just the last year, since the Jimmy Savile case hit and Waterhouse inquiry into the abuse of children in care in maintained the headlines for so many months. Gwynedd and Clwyd council areas. Operation Fernbank was established to focus on claims of sexual abuse and Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will the grooming of children involving parties for men at the hon. Gentleman also include for the record a dreadful the former Elm guest house in south-west London in case that touches all of us in the House: that of baby the ’70s and ’80s. Operation Fernbridge has been launched Peter, which drew our attention to the need for a systematic, as a result of allegations arising from Operation Fernbank. cross-services approach to child protection? The Independent revealed on 9 June that seven officers are pursuing more than 300 lines of inquiry. Tim Loughton: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely There are a number of inquiries involving children right, and we could have taken up this entire debate being abused in schools. Operation Flamborough is with the history of some of these cases. And these are investigating alleged assaults on girls with learning only the high-profile cases that we know about and read difficulties at a Hampshire boarding school. At Carlekemp about. They are only a small sample of what has in North Berwick, a feeder primary school to Fort actually been going on; many more have not reached Augustus Abbey Catholic school has been linked to the headlines or even the courts. abuse allegations, as has Fort Augustus Abbey itself. Away from the high-profile stories that make the There have been abuse allegations in relation to media headlines, the wider figures show that our various Hall school, near . At Chetham’s music school child protection agencies have never been busier. The in Manchester, a former director of music and his wife National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children were found guilty of indecently assaulting Frances Andrade, reports that referrals to ChildLine about sexual abuse who, tragically, was driven to take her own life after were nearly twice as high in June and July of this year as being subjected to harsh cross-examination during the in the same period last year, pre-Savile. There have been trial, having been labelled a fantasist and attention 2.4 million visits to the ChildLine website in the last seeker and advised not to seek counselling during the year—an increase of some 28% on the previous year. trial. There have been allegations of sexual abuse in The NSPCC estimates that more than 50,000 children many other music schools, including the YehudiMenuhin in the UK are known to be at risk of abuse. It calculates school in Surrey, and schools in Edinburgh and Somerset. that last year, a total of 2,900 rapes or attempted rapes But it does not stop there. of children under the age of 13 were recorded; that is eight per day. Indeed, 32%—almost a third—of all In the diocese of Chichester, in my part of the country, sexual crimes in this country are against children under retired priests have been charged with sexual offences. the age of 16. The diocese has had four inquiries into child abuse in the past four years, including a formal visitation from the Archbishop of Canterbury and a report written by Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): I know the noble Baroness Elizabeth Butler-Sloss. The General that the hon. Gentleman feels very deeply about this Synod voted on 7 July this year to issue an unreserved issue. Do these figures not show that we have to be more historic apology from the Church of England to victims aware of the fact that paedophiles will target professions of clerical sex abuse. We have seen countless examples in which they can get access to children, and that the of child sexual exploitation cases: Operation Retriever; Government therefore need to do more? Instead of the extraordinary case in Rochdale where 47 girls were relaxing regulations relating to children and Ofsted identified as victims of child sexual exploitation; the child protection inspections, the Government need to case in ; Operation Bullfinch in Oxford—there be much more cognisant of the issue, target areas where is still more to run on that one; and Operation Chalice such things are likely to happen, and make people aware in which seven men were jailed following a police that paedophiles will be in these professions. Action investigation into child sexual exploitation involving must be taken to stop them. young white girls in Telford. Tim Loughton: I agree with the hon. Lady, who Of course, there were the recent tragic killings of knows a great deal about this issue, having been a April Jones at the hands of 46-year-old Mark Bridger, practitioner in the field; indeed, she and I have worked and of Tia Sharp at the hands of her grandmother’s together through the all-party group on child protection. boyfriend, Stuart Hazell, which were linked to downloading We need to be wiser to the professions in which paedophiles abuse images of children. The case of Daniel Pelka, and potential paedophiles will inveigle themselves. At who was killed and tortured in an incredibly cruel way, the same time, however, training and awareness in some came to court in the last few months: a defenceless of these professions—an issue I shall return to—have four-year-old child was systematically tortured, yet this improved enormously, although not enough, yet, and was on the radar of local authority services. Next week, the inspection regime has improved. In too many cases, the Coventry safeguarding children board will undertake we were inspecting the wrong thing. I hope that joint a serious case review, during which I think we will hear agency inspections, which we were promised but which some familiar stories—a case of déjà vu for those of us have been put on hold, will still happen, so that we have who have been around the block so many times with that cross-disciplinary eye: police looking at children’s this sort of cruelty. Of course, there was also the serious services, children’s services looking at education, education case review of the Birmingham nursery case. looking at health services. 1203 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1204

[Tim Loughton] involve a commission, led by respected figures from the law, lawmakers, social services and children’s charities. Too often, there was a silo approach to inspection, It must set out to provide the holistic assurance that has which took up a great deal of the time of professionals been so sapped by the plethora of at one time weekly who would rather spend it looking after the families, inquiries and reviews set up by the , the and not enough dissemination of information. The best BBC, the Department of Health and numerous others, way to bring that about is better multi-agency training, and it must go everywhere. which we have not been good at. That is beginning to Such an inquiry must address four main issues. What happen, however. For example, we have multi-agency exactly happened, and why, over all those years? When safeguarding hubs, through which different agencies are did things start getting better, and how? Have all practical co-located—sitting next to each other in the same room, steps been taken to give victims the confidence to come looking at the same intelligence, discussing cases and forward, and for the police to pursue vigorously any coming up with a much better informed and sharper remaining offenders? Perhaps most important of all, action plan. All those things are improvements, but the have all our major institutions that have significant point the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) dealings with children and young people instituted child makes is a valid one. protection policies and practices that are fit for purpose I know that many Members want to contribute to the in 2013 to deal with modern-day technology and savvy debate, but there is a bit more I want to say. With the list perpetrators? I have given goes a looming public apprehension about whether we really have cracked child protection, buffeted Mr Sheerman: The hon. Gentleman is being very by almost weekly revelations of the latest scandal involving generous in giving way. May I just put in a caveat? There abuse at the hands of a bishop, a music teacher, a taxi was a time when a kind of press feeding frenzy went on. driver or a soap star. To some extent, it matters not Something went very wrong with some of the investigations, whether the perpetrator is dead or alive, or how long a lot of innocent people who had worked with children ago his alleged misdemeanours took place. The higher were falsely accused—for whatever reason—and many profile given by the media to cases linked to celebrities good professionals’ lives were destroyed. Please can we has, however, been deeply unhelpful, as it detracts from make sure that, whatever we do now, we do not start the reality that the main perpetrators are common that sort of thing again? criminals in ordinary jobs. Of course, the fact that so many cases are now Tim Loughton: The hon. Gentleman is right, which is coming to court, however belatedly, is a sign of some why I referred to what happened with celebrities, which success, in that offenders are now being pursued better was a sort of feeding frenzy and succeeded in masking by police. Victims are being heeded more loudly and the multitude of real crimes—not that the former were sympathetically, prosecutions are sticking and the not real crimes—that were going on amongst ordinary perpetrators are being made to pay. people. That is why we need an overarching inquiry to However, are our children safer now than they were look holistically at what went wrong, what appeared to 50 years ago, when Savile and others started to ply their go wrong, what was a symptom of media frenzy, and trade? Have we just replaced celebrity abuse of star-struck who the victims were and are. Most important, we need teenagers while the establishment turned a blind eye to give some satisfaction and confidence to the public at with systematic abuse to order by organised gangs, be large that somebody is looking at this issue properly, they Pakistani-British—high-profile cases of which we and that there is evidence that their children are safer have seen—or of whatever culture? Are internet groomers now—despite everything that has come out—than 10, and the recent Oxford and Rochdale abusers just a 20 or 30 years ago. I do not think that an unreasonable modern-day version of Savile, armed with mobile phone ask. The former Prime Minister of Australia established technology but without shell suits and the lure of the a similar royal commission into historic child abuse in “green room”? In that sense, given the reach of technology November 2012, to look into institutional responses to as a key tool of the abusers, do they not pose a much allegations of sexual abuse in Australia, particularly more widespread threat now than ever before? linked with the Catholic Church. IT has been done it there, and there is a good case for doing it here. I think that those of us in the know here today can say that children are safer now than back in the 1960s, but that is a tough sell to the public at large. But if that Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman is is the case, when did things actually get better? When making a powerful case for a public inquiry, which I did child protection come of age and society at large support. He is right to say that we need to restore recognise its significance? When did we equip our agencies confidence not just among the public at large but among sufficiently to question the “It’s just Jimmy” mentality victims. It seems that there is confusion in government and start turning over some rather grubby stones? Was about which Department is providing the drive and lead the landmark Children Act 1989 the turning point? Was to ensure that these issues are tackled. When he was the it the shocking revelations concerning the north Wales Minister responsible for child protection, it was care homes, which have of course come full circle, as we inconceivable that he would not lead on these issues in now know that the whole story was not properly revealed? the House. This is the second time is less than a year It is to answer these questions that I and others have that we have had a debate on child protection, and the been calling for some time for an overarching inquiry other Department with responsibility has not been into the whole sordid history of child abuse in this represented. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern country, going back to the 1960s and traversing the about that? Children Act, into what I call the legitimate legislation tsunami post-Victoria Climbié. Such an inquiry must Tim Loughton rose— 1205 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1206

Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. deeply traumatic cases in our courts. There are sermons Before the hon. Gentleman replies to the intervention, in mosques about the exploitation of children. In July may I gently remind him that the recommendation is 2012, children started to be placed far away in residential that the mover of the motion speaks for 10 to 15 minutes? homes. There will be a report on that later this year. He has been on his feet for 18 minutes or more. He has There is also the national action plan to tackle child been generous in taking interventions, but that time is abuse linked to faith or belief. supposed to include interventions. It means that there A lot has happened in the past few years to make our will be a time limit on the rest of the speeches. Therefore, children safer. I think the Government need to shout I hope that he will be less generous and draw his out much more loudly about it. I hope that the Prime remarks to a conclusion. This is not coming out of your Minister, who has rejected calls for an overarching time, Mr Loughton. inquiry, will think again in the light of the tsunami of cases in the past year. Tim Loughton: I am gently reminded, Madam Deputy Therefore, in conclusion, child abuse takes many Speaker. I am happy to give up some time—I think I different forms: the harm, neglect and ultimately killing have a right to reply at the end of the debate—so that as of a vulnerable child by family members; child sexual many Members as possible can get in. Perhaps if I do exploitation and systematic abuse by gangs; internet not take any more interventions and speak very quickly, abuse; opportunistic grooming over the web; cyber-bullying it will help. In response to the hon. Member for Wigan and trolling, on which a campaign was launched in (Lisa Nandy), I will gently come on to that point in the Parliament just this morning. All these things are part few minutes remaining to me, but I think that the of the same problem and we need to show the public answer is that I could not possibly comment. how we are protecting our children better. As such, it is I fear that in the UK the public have become increasingly a child protection and education and prevention issue, confused and sceptical about what progress has been which should be, as it always was, led by the DFE, made over recent years to ensure that our children are notwithstanding the talents and dedication of the Minister safe. That is not surprising given the tsunami of media in his role in the Home Office. Without doing that, we reports that I have already listed and the tangled tidal risk giving rise to a new generation of Jimmy Saviles, wave of reviews announced by Ministers, the BBC, the perhaps without the shell suits and bling but armed NHS, the Church and everyone else. Therefore, the with much more powerful— public are confused and parents are understandably worried. They need high-profile, high-octane, high-impact Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Mr leadership from central Government, working with all Loughton, you said “In conclusion”. I would like you the relevant agencies, to convince a sceptical public that to conclude your remarks. Even allowing for my 30-second we are on top of the situation. intervention, you are way over the 15 minutes. Please conclude your remarks. I know that much is going on. Indeed, I instigated quite a lot of what is going on. I know what a champion Tim Loughton: My final sentence is that this is the the Minister from the Home Office is on the issue and challenge that faces us all in the post-Savile world: child welcome his leadership of the National Group on Sexual protection has potentially never been so important to so Violence against Children and Vulnerable People instituted many, and all of us have a duty to be vigilant. in April. However, to take on the point made by the hon. Member for Wigan, I am concerned about the Several hon. Members rose— move to the Home Office, because child abuse is not just about detection and prosecution. It is first and foremost Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. A about education, awareness, early intervention and large number of Members wish to speak in the debate. I prevention, and I think that that is best co-ordinated in ask Members to take no more than 10 minutes, including the Department for Education, which retains the lead interventions. The clock will not be on, but it will be a for children’s social care and for Ofsted inspection, I sharp time limit if that is not complied with. think. It is particularly concerning, therefore, that, at a time when child abuse has never been more in our consciousness, the assurances and leadership from the 1.16 pm DFE have been rather muted over the past year. Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab): It is a pleasure to I do not understand why, because we have much to be follow the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham proud of. The Munro reforms provided a fundamental (Tim Loughton), who as children’s Minister responded overhaul of child protection and the way in which that positively to the parliamentary inquiry into children is done in this country. They are widely respected and who go missing from care, which was conducted by the starting to be instituted. Hopefully, the appointment of all-party group for runaway and missing children and the chief social worker is raising the profession’s morale adults and supported by the Children’s Society. I am and the launch of the Frontline scheme is raising its pleased to support his call for an overarching inquiry. confidence. The full publication of serious case reviews Over the past 20 years, we have had numerous high-profile has cast light on the problems that are going on. There inquiries and serious case reviews after children have has been a proliferation of multi-agency safeguarding been harmed, abused and killed. Almost without exception, hubs, progress on child sexual exploitation and the those inquiries and reviews have come to the same action plan. The Children’s Society toolkit was launched conclusions—poor inter-agency working, sharing of just this week and it has also launched its “Say something information and communication were significant factors if you see something” campaign. The Lord Chancellor’s in failures to prevent the child’s injury or death. There is Department has made important announcements about a public frustration that time and again recommendations the way in which we treat the 23,000 child witnesses in point to the same failings in the system. 1207 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1208

[Ann Coffey] Interestingly enough, in spite of all the publicity surrounding witnesses who have been called liars and It seems that a lot of reviews and inquiries look fantasists and subjected to aggressive cross-questioning at the failures of the organisations around the child by multiple lawyers, I understand that there have been rather than putting the child’s voice and experience barely any complaints to the Bar Council, which indicates at the centre of the review. I recently looked at a the acceptance and normalisation of aggressive, adversarial systems review of CSE practice by Stockport’s children’s cross-examinations. safeguarding board through the eyes of a victim. I was I have been reading with interest the work done by struck that on a number of occasions her case was academic experts such as Professor John Spencer of closed because she withdrew her co-operation. She would Cambridge university and Joyce Plotnikoff about the not communicate. Surely a better way would have been need to reform the rules and conventional practice in to find someone capable of talking to her and winning the cross-examination of children. I would like the her trust, which could then have prevented the harm Minister to consider establishing a commission of inquiry that subsequently happened to her. made up of expert judges and leading academics into Listening to the children who gave evidence to our reforming the rules on cross-examination of children inquiry, it was clear that children felt that they had not after the spate of recent high-profile sex trials in which been, and were not being, listened to. One of the key lawyers branded vulnerable victims liars again and again. challenges facing agencies charged with safeguarding Of course the right of the defendant to a fair trail and children is being able to communicate properly with to examine fairly the witnesses against him or her must children, so that they feel able to talk about what is be sacrosanct, but the process has to be about obtaining happening to them. I agree with the Children’s the best quality of evidence in a way that is robust, Commissioner, Maggie Atkinson, that staff who work reliable and safe for the witness. As Lord Justice Auld with children and young people, from whichever discipline said in his review of the criminal courts: or profession, should experience a common set of training that crosses all boundaries. Unless we can communicate “A criminal trial is not a game under which a guilty defendant should be provided with a sporting chance.” with children, we will not know what is going on in their lives and therefore we will not be able to prevent them Currently, the court appears to be set up as a theatre, in from coming to harm. which lawyers perform for the benefit of the jury.Sometimes it does not seem like a real cross-examination of evidence, Sadly, all too often, that essential communication but to be about smearing and breaking down the witness with children does not happen and we find out all too to get defendants off the hook. One senior English late about the horrors of the experience that those barrister told Dr Emily Henderson, a visiting fellow at children have been subjected to, which they then have to Clare Hall, Cambridge and a criminal barrister herself relive as witnesses in our courts. There is widespread who is doing a six-month study of the impact of changes concern about the treatment of child witnesses in the to cross-examination, that: court system. The failures to provide sufficient support to child witnesses are based on an inadequate understanding “You are always really playing to the audience. Of course, it is one-on-one in that there is only one person answering questions, of how to communicate with children. but you are constantly aiming everything at the people who are No one should be in any doubt about how much ultimately going to be making the decision. So you are playing to children worry about going to court. Many children the gallery.” express those fears to the NSPCC’s ChildLine. I will Another barrister told Dr Henderson: read out just one example. One girl said: “I have three speeches: my opening, my closing and “I have to go to court this week to give evidence and I really my cross-examination.” don’t want to. I didn’t want to report the abuse but I was told I had to. It just feels like everything’s my fault and I wish I had Barristers in sex abuse cases must be stopped from never told anyone.” manipulating child witnesses like puppets. I welcome the new guidelines issued by Keir Starmer, As many leading academics, including Spencer and the Director of Public Prosecutions, on cases involving Plotnikoff, have said, 30-plus years of empirical research child sexual abuse, which he said would ensure that the in this and similar adversarial jurisdictions has shown focus was on allegations made by victims, rather than again and again that conventional cross-examination is their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. However, I fear more likely to confuse and mislead children than to that we are a long way from that in the way witnesses draw out accurate and reliable evidence. Indeed, research are cross-examined in our courts now. by the NSPCC showed that more than 90% of children under 10 do not understand the questions they are The Government are making progress in piloting asked in court. The commission that I am proposing section 28 of the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence could also consider what further measures might be Act 1999, which will allow pre-recorded cross-examination undertaken to improve the safety and reliability of of young and vulnerable witnesses. That is very welcome. processes for the taking and investigation of children’s I recently tabled a series of parliamentary questions evidence by the criminal courts. In addition, it could which revealed that in the first three months of 2013 examine extending the role of registered intermediaries registered intermediaries were requested for children in to allow them to cross-examine vulnerable witnesses only 16% of cases. This indicates to me that the police, under the direction of counsel. This idea was first raised the prosecution, the defence and the courts do not more than 20 years ago in the 1989 Pigot committee really understand how difficult it is for children to report, which recommended that advocates’ questions communicate in the current adversarial system and do should be relayed through a specialist child examiner, not understand the need for registered intermediaries to such as a paediatrician, child psychiatrist, social worker facilitate communication between them and the court. or other person who enjoys the child’s confidence. 1209 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1210

In most other continental jurisdictions, including at some time in their childhood; and 43% of child France, Germany, Austria, Norway and Italy, young protection plans are in place as a result of neglect. child witnesses are questioned by a neutral specialist. During our inquiry we learnt that it can be difficult to The interviewer investigates issues that the defence wants pin down what is meant by the term “neglect”. It can raised and consults the defence in the process. mean different things for different age groups and in I was heartened that in 2010 and 2011 the Court of different situations, which can make it difficult for Appeal released several judgments designed to clean up professionals and the public to recognise. poor cross-examination techniques. The court was very We were particularly concerned by the variation in clear that cross-examiners must use language appropriate rates of neglect between local authorities. We recommended to the developmental stage of the witness. However, that the Government commission research to see whether despite these encouraging comments from the Court of similar situations and behaviours were classified as neglect Appeal, how we treat children in court is still a massive in different local authorities in different ways. We concluded problem. In the last couple of weeks, we had the judge from the evidence that the needs of children and the who described a 13-year-old victim of abuse as predatory. importance of acting quickly to secure early intervention This was in addition to one of the barristers in the for children experiencing neglect are all too often not Oxford case accusing one of the girls of being a serial given sufficient priority. I hope that the Government liar and fantasist who had fabricated the allegations, will be prepared to intervene if the responsiveness of and a witness in the Stafford trial had to endure being local authorities to neglect does not improve. called a liar day after day. We also learned from witnesses that older children are often reluctant to disclose information about abuse Meg Munn: There was a lot of condemnation of that or neglect. Potential causes of this include mistrust of at the time, with the Prime Minister and others saying the authorities, embarrassment and fear of what is that those remarks should not have been made, but does going to happen, including the fear of not being believed. my hon. Friend agree that we should be worried not That leads on to another of the three main areas that that such remarks are being made but that people in the Education Committee examined—namely, the support these positions believe these things in the first place given to older children. Ofsted figures reveal that 24% about children? of the serious case reviews conducted between April 2007 and March 2011 involved children aged 14 or Ann Coffey: I agree. Attitudes to children in our older. That means that children in that group are second society are quite awful sometimes. That manifests itself only to babies under one in terms of risk of serious in various ways. harm. Children’s charities and victim support groups said that the Staffordshire trial shamed British justice. These Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): On the point about cases demonstrate the urgent need for reform. I hope older children, does my hon. Friend share my concern that the Minister will agree with me that a commission that we do not yet seem to be responding adequately to look into further reforms of the practice of cross- and quickly enough to the growing issue of grooming examination is the only way to ensure that in the future by gangs? We see it in many of our towns and cities we get the best possible evidence, without which the across the country, yet we do not seem to have an courts cannot do justice to the victim or the defendant. adequate response.

Mr Stuart: My hon. Friend is right. However, it is 1.26 pm being taken seriously. My hon. Friend the Member for Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): East Worthing and Shoreham talked about the use of It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. I congratulate modern technology and how those who are predatory the Backbench Business Committee on assigning time towards children can use it to co-ordinate and be more to it, and I am pleased to follow two such powerful effective. As in every area of crime, it is essential that speeches. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member those on the side of law and order, particularly those for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) and involved in the protection of children, should keep up the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) on securing and be ahead of the curve in relation to the abusers. the debate. Childline told us that provision for 16 to 18-year-olds, Over the summer we saw more tragic evidence, if it in particular, represents a massive gap in the system. We were needed, of how important it is that the child concluded that the position was so serious that the protection system works swiftly and effectively. Last Government should undertake a complete review of the November the Education Committee published a report support offered to older children by the child protection “Children first: the child protection system in England.” system, with proposals to reshape services to meet their We agreed that we should focus our attention on three needs. In their response to our report, Ministers said: separate but linked themes that were emerging strongly “We expect local leaders to consider whether their child and from all that we had heard and read—neglect, older family social work services are appropriately configured to meet children, and the thresholds for interventions. What the needs of all vulnerable children and families.” drew them together was the recognition that in each I appreciate the key role played by local authorities in case the child should be the priority. delivering children’s services and the need to respect a I will start with neglect. No one should underestimate certain amount of local discretion as to how they the scale of this problem. A major study by the NSPCC discharge this responsibility, but I hope the Government last year found that severe neglect was experienced by will act if evidence continues to show that older children 3.7% of children under 11 and 9.8% of 11 to 17-year-olds are still being overlooked by our child protection system. 1211 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1212

[Mr Graham Stuart] Committee being informed about it? Do we have clarity as to who is responsible, and without that clarity can One element of the support on offer to older children our children really be safe? has shown a marked improvement in recent months. I Speaking for myself, not for the Committee, I think was delighted by the package of support for young that my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and people leaving care that was unveiled by the Under-Secretary Shoreham made a strong case for a public inquiry. Such of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for is the level of public disquiet, such are the complexities Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), earlier this year. I and challenges of these issues, and such is the need not am pleased to see him in his seat. This includes new only to reassure the public but to allow for a public rules to ensure that more 16 and 17-year-olds remain in examination of the issues, that nothing short of a public care unless signed off by a director of children’s services. inquiry is required, and it would carry cross-party support. For too long, young care leavers for whom the state is, My Committee will undertake follow-up work in connection in effect, the parent have been cast off at 16 or 17 with with our inquiry to assess where we are and what else no support network in place. The new arrangements needs to be done. mark a real step forward, but there is still much more to be done. The third aspect of my Committee’s work involved 1.34 pm the thresholds for intervention and whether they are set Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab): It is a pleasure at the right level and applied consistently. We found to follow the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness variation between local authorities in how these thresholds (Mr Stuart). I agree with the points that he and, indeed, are applied. We recommended that the Government previous speakers made—this is a vital debate. commission research to understand the impact of varying thresholds in different areas, and whether they are too I want to focus on the lessons and the aftermath of high or rising in some places. Undoubtedly part of the the awful crimes uncovered in Oxford in the Bullfinch solution is having a common understanding of thresholds investigation. We were all shocked and horrified by as between different agencies and ensuring that information those crimes, and it is right that those who are guilty are is shared. We found particular concerns about the health punished and feel the full force of the law. It has to be sector, as one always does in relation to information said, though, that the convictions were the just the sharing. beginning of the action that needs to be taken. I welcome the steps that are being taken by the We commended, as did my hon. Friend the Member National Group on Sexual Violence against Children for East Worthing and Shoreham, the example set by and Vulnerable People. No one should underestimate authorities that have brought different agencies together the challenge of pulling together all the Government into multi-agency hubs to ensure better co-ordination Departments, agencies, local authorities and outside and information sharing between all the professionals organisations, including in the private sector, whose involved in child protection. During the inquiry we commitment, resources and action are needed to provide went to York, where there was the principle that there real focus and drive to this vital work. I hope that this should be a response to every need. Rather than having debate can support the Minister for Policing and Criminal a threshold, the aim was to co-ordinate and to ensure Justice in having the clout and reach that he will need to that where a need was expressed people could, at the force the pace of progress and deliver real change on the very least, signpost someone to where they could get ground. I also support the further steps called for in the help and support. “Childhood Lost” petition to the Prime Minister by the The American social reformer Frederick Douglass hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola said: Blackwood), which calls for more sensitive court procedures, the publication of serious case reviews, and consistent “It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken support across the country for victims of child sexual men.” exploitation. He was exactly right. As a political class, we must take The Oxford victims, who, as children, should have the hard lessons of recent years to heart as Britain is been protected and cared for, suffered so much and were confronted by a very 21st-century picture of abuse. As very brave in giving their evidence. We owe it to them well as the themes that I have mentioned, my Committee and to all who are at risk to make a mighty effort to heard about threats to the welfare of children from new prevent such abuse in future. forms of abuse resulting from technology, as well as I have three key points to make. First, the victims and older forms of abuse newly present in this country such their families are owed a clear explanation of what went as the evils of human trafficking and female genital wrong; why they were failed; and, where there was fault, mutilation. The challenge of protecting children is who was responsible and what action will be taken constantly changing, and our response needs to be about that. It is terrible to think that this went on so sure-footed and robust. long, for years and years, before the hideous reality was There are clear signs that Ministers have turned their uncovered, thanks eventually to police and social services attention to where the child protection system is failing action. It is right that the Thames Valley chief constable children, but in our inquiry we were concerned about and the county council chief executive have apologised where the responsibility lies. I hope to hear from Ministers for the time it took and are committed to uncover any whether there has been a change in responsibility as shortcomings within their organisations. between the Department for Education and the Home We have to look to the serious case review as the first Office. Who exactly is in charge? If there has been a step, but, as the independent chair of the Oxfordshire change, how could it have occurred without the Education safeguarding board has made clear to me, the prime 1213 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1214 purpose of serious case reviews is to learn lessons to even when staff suspect those children are victims of improve work to safeguard and promote children’s welfare. grooming. The Library dug out for me the statutory She wrote to me: guidance under Children Act 1989. Volume 5, which is “SCRs are not inquiries into how a child died or was seriously on care homes, states: harmed, or into who is culpable…Nor are SCRs part of any “Staff in children’s homes that are not approved as secure disciplinary inquiry or process relating to individual practitioners”. children’s homes should not try to restrain the child or young Such action is the responsibility of the relevant organisation, person simply to stop them from leaving the home.” be it the county council, the police, the health service, or Similarly, “It is legal? A parents’ guide to the law” by whoever. The abuse in these cases went on for a very the Family and Parenting Institute states: long time, and some of the staff involved, and those “A parent cannot stop a child leaving home by locking them in responsible for them, will have retired or otherwise or physically restraining them.” moved on. In its briefing for this debate, Oxfordshire I told one of our colleagues this and he was shocked county council says: that he could not legally ground his teenage daughter. “Staff previously employed by the County Council will be We have to be careful because, sadly, as other awful interviewed by the Serious Case Review author and will be a matter for the Serious Case Review.” cases have shown, abuse sometimes takes place in the family home itself, and no one wants to be in the It seems to me that there may well be a gap in accountability position of locking the fire escape. Equally, however, it between the ambit of the serious case review and the is no good our criticising care workers for their inability internal enquiries undertaken by the county council to prevent the victims of grooming from going out if we and the police. do not give them the power to do so. This needs to be I will of course look very carefully at the serious case looked at very carefully, to see whether the balance can review and the outcome of the internal reviews. It is be shifted more strongly towards allowing those charged crucial that this is all fully transparent and covers every with safeguarding to fulfil their responsibilities. angle. I am sure that the public will want to know what independent involvement and oversight there is of these Meg Munn: I am listening carefully to what my right reviews. We might well, though, need a public inquiry to hon. Friend is saying, because this situation is familiar get to the bottom of how children in care were left so to me from my time working in social services. At that vulnerable and what can be done to take good care of time, secure places were available, which meant that those at risk in future. The police and crime commissioner once a child was identified as being at risk, they could for Thames valley has already called for a more general be put in secure premises where they were offered public inquiry into how we safeguard children nationally, support. I am concerned that that provision is not as reflecting remarks, which I support, that have already widely available any more and that that is one of the been made in this debate. I would like to hear the reasons we find ourselves with the dilemma being described Minister’s response to that. by my right hon. Friend. My second key point is that it is vital that we put in place effective measures to protect children. Children Mr Smith: That is precisely the sort of thing I had in and parents must be educated in the risks and tell-tale mind when I said that we need to look carefully at signs and have someone to go to for support and advice. whether the balance can be shifted towards enabling We all have a responsibility to report suspicious activity those with caring responsibilities to fulfil them. to the police. I welcome the “Say Something If You See We also need urgently to spread the best practice of Something” toolkit produced by the NWG Network those care homes—there are some—that have achieved and the Children’s Society to help businesses, as well as a lower rate of absconding. The sad reality in many of the wider community, to play their part. these grooming cases is that the victims initially want to One good thing to come out of Operation Bullfinch go out because of the treats and affection, and then in Oxfordshire is the joint team, the Kingfisher unit, later, when they are drugged, abused and threatened, bringing together police, social services, drug and alcohol they are too scared not to go out and need protection. specialists and the health service in combating child The sad lesson of Operation Bullfinch and similar sexual abuse. Another is the work being undertaken cases is that while most children can enjoy a childhood with schools to alert children to the dangers of grooming. free from such horrors, there is a bigger risk of grooming Steps are also being taken to develop a multi-agency and abuse out there than was previously realised. We safeguarding hub. I urge colleagues from other areas to know about it now, though, and there is a massive find out what is being done in their constituencies. Such responsibility on us all, both to uncover what has gone initiatives are urgently needed everywhere because, sadly, wrong and to do our utmost to make sure that every as is becoming more evident as more cases come to child is safe. light, grooming and abuse are a significant risk everywhere. Do not let the councils, police, schools and other agencies 1.44 pm wait until they have a horror on the scale of Operation Bullfinch to deal with. John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I refer My third key point is the question of whether, in the House to my chairmanship of the Justice for Families social care practice and law, the balance is right between campaign and of Care Leavers Voice, which is a group the rights of the child and the duties of parents or those of care leavers who are concerned that the voice of care with responsibility for care to safeguard that child. I leavers is excluded from the system. asked the Library for a briefing on this, because one of On 14 August Jana Tokolyova, who is the press the issues of public concern material to the Operation officer of the Slovak Republic’s equivalent of the Crown Bullfinch cases is how on earth children can go missing Prosecution Service, the General Prokuratura, reported time after time from what supposedly is a place of care, that their equivalent of the Director of Public Prosecutions 1215 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1216

[John Hemming] Article 3 of the European convention on human rights was almost certainly engaged with regard to the had agreed with the deputy director of their national removal by the police of the newborn baby that appeared police to appoint a special agent to investigate a criminal in the video that Staffordshire county council failed to complaint by Silivie Maher that relates to care proceedings injunct last Friday. Interestingly, Mrs Courtnage assisted in the UK. the father in resisting imprisonment at an earlier stage. This is an interesting process, because it is an extra- Was the action of removing the newborn baby inevitable, jurisdictional process. I believe it relates to the Rome and therefore permissible under article 3, or even necessary, statute and, as such, could lead to the end result of under article 8? The risk is future emotional abuse. The members of the Government facing questions about authority accepts that the parents are no immediate risk why they have tolerated the amount of malpractice that to their child. Why, then, take this action? The Government goes on in care proceedings in England and Wales. are moving towards removing such babies and immediately placing them with adoptive families. This does not On 5 December 2012 Leicester city council fired a appear to me to fit with traditional English family law very experienced social worker because she wanted to or the European convention on human rights. send a baby home to their mum and dad. Her assessment I have mentioned Toni McLeod before. She featured was that the parents were competent, but Sir Martin in the Sunday Express because Durham wanted to take Narey and Education Ministers want a rapid movement her unborn baby into care because she went on an to adoption—hence, the baby remained in care. This English Defence League demonstration. She went to pressure by local authority managers on a social worker Ireland. Sadly, the Health Service Executive in Ireland to lie to the court is, of course, a criminal offence. is now trying to force back to England all the family However, I think the Slovak Republic is more willing court refugees. More recently she returned to England than the police in England to investigate criminality in and was refused permission to appeal. The case reference our courts. Happily, however, on 5 September 2013 the is [2013] EWCA Civ 1007. In paragraph 10, the court case was set down for a full hearing by an employment said tribunal next year. “Happily, on one basis, this case is not about a mother who is I have for some time been worried about what I was incompetent or unable to provide ordinary, good enough or even told by a social worker some years ago, which is that at good physical and practical care for her children. Unhappily, and times the legal aid-funded solicitors for parents conspire frustratingly for all involved, I dare say, particularly the mother with local authority staff in order to ensure that the and the children, the concern about the mother’s ability to parent parents lose. One example where that appears to have is more subtle and harder to pinpoint, but it arises from her happened is that of Jaqcue and John Courtnage, whose personality and the potential for the children to be upset by two sons were taken into care because one had a lump unpredictable actions or words that she may from time to time exhibit.” on his head. The doctors were not sure whether it was because of a fracture or a fissure. The child was There are still parents leaving the UK to escape the neurologically sound, which implies a fissure, but the system. I know of two pregnant mothers who have done parents did not see the evidence that it could have been so: one has gone to France and the other to live with a a fissure until after the court had decided in 2010 that it Belgian social worker, who is appalled at what is being was a fracture, and the question was never considered in done in England and is therefore willing to look after a any court judgment. mother and child at home. A court order on 30 October 2008 had said that all I welcome the work of Sir James Munby. He is a evidence should be provided to the parents. That did good appointment to the challenging task of president not happen. The hospital provided Derbyshire county and his initial practice directions have been good. However, council with the information in December 2008, but the Government remain complacent and Parliament this did not get to the parents until after the finding of should really look at the individual cases. The care fact hearing of 2010, when they made a subject access system continues not to be accountable. The independent request. reviewing officer will never be independent while they are on the payroll of the local authority. The question is whether the council colluded with the parents’ solicitors. Chris Sedgewick of Miles and Cash The case of Jimmy Savile have been raised by various has been asked about the issue by his client and me. people. What is not widely known, although it is in the Although he denies the allegation, he has refused to public domain, is that a journalist, Leah McGrath give a detailed response, which confirms to me that Goodman, aimed to go to Jersey to investigate what Miles and Cash colluded with Derbyshire county council had happened in 2011 before it became public. However, to keep this evidence from the parents. she was banned by the UK Border Agency. With some effort from me, the ban was removed and she received a Additionally, there was a single metaphyseal fracture, visa earlier this year. She has now been to Jersey, but the but Thomas, Rosenfield, Leventhal and Markowitz found issues are already in the public domain. The CCTV that as long ago as 1990 that might explain the basis on which somebody was prevented “femur fractures often are accidental and that the femur can be from investigating a serious case of child abuse that fractured when the running child trips and falls.” came out at a later stage has still not been provided. The Their article can be found on pages 471 to 476 of Government need to provide some answers on that volume 88, No. 3 of the journal Paediatrics, published issue. on 1 September 1991. Again, here we have an essentially I wrote to all the embassies this year asking whether criminal allegation that escapes investigation and somebody would like to come to a meeting in the House prosecution in England, but which could be prosecuted of Commons to discuss problems with child protection. by the Slovak Republic. Fifty-nine people came, representing 30 countries. Although 1217 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1218 not all those countries have complained formally, we I am coming up to my 10 minutes, so I will draw my should recognise that there are serious concerns about remarks to a close. The fundamental issue is the quality how the system operates. of expert evidence. Much of the expert evidence is Child protection is a complex process that covers a driven by the management priorities of the local authority. wide range of circumstances. There are some very good That is why there are many very bad cases. The Education practitioners and lawyers who work in the area. As I Committee could look at individual cases, as could the said, Sir James Munby is a very good judge. However, Justice Committee. I have made my point, so I shall sit there is also bad practice. If we tolerate the bad practice, down. we undermine the more competent people. It is therefore important to look at the wider issues. 1.55 pm In a sense, there is a constitutional problem. When Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab): I thank the hon. Member hon. Members receive complaints from their constituents for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) and and write to the Minister, the Minister says, “We don’t my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) comment on individual cases.” Unless we are able to for consistently pushing hard to ensure that the House look at the details of individual cases and see whether does not forget these important issues and that we make there are collective problems, we cannot be certain what progress on them. is going on. I know that the system does a very good job I echo the concern of the hon. Members for East at times, but it also does a very bad job at times. We are Worthing and Shoreham and for Beverley and Holderness not looking at the process systematically. (Mr Stuart) that the Department for Education is not Ministers say, “We want more children to be adopted.” responding to this debate. However, I am pleased to see That message goes to council leaders who talk to their that the Under-Secretary of State for Education, the cabinet member for children’s services. The cabinet member hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), talks to the senior managers and they talk to the more has arrived on the Front Bench and is listening to the junior managers. The social worker who wants to send a debate. child home then gets fired. I have also heard of a Since the tragic death of Victoria Climbié nearly a council that, because the expert witness recommended decade ago, it has been widely accepted that child that a child be reunited with their parents, would not protection is everybody’s responsibility and that, necessarily, pay for the expert witness’s report. That pressure on all central and local government departments have a people to go in a particular direction is driven role in keeping children safe. Child protection policy is unintentionally by the Government. I am not saying fragmented across different Departments including the that the Government intend to achieve that, but that is Department for Education, the Department of Health, what is happening on the ground. the Ministry of Justice, the Department for Communities and Local Government, the Home Office and the Mr Graham Stuart: I am working hard to follow my Department for Culture, Media and Sport. It is important hon. Friend’s argument. There will undoubtedly be that there is a strong lead Department so that a drive injustice in the system, as there is in any system. However, comes from somewhere in Government to ensure that the case that he talked about in which a social worker in the voices, needs and views of children are never forgotten. Leicester was fired for wanting to send a child home I agree with the hon. Member for East Worthing and seems incredible. Will he say more about it? Shoreham, who said that child protection is primarily about education, awareness, early intervention and John Hemming: I have the defence that Leicester city prevention, and that it should therefore sit with the council made to the employment tribunal. I can give the Minister with responsibility for child protection in hon. Gentleman a copy of it. The defence was, “We told the Department that is responsible for children. Will the her not to send the child home, but she wanted to do Minister confirm that the Department for Education is that, so we fired her.” That went to appeal and the still responsible for such children or whether it has councillors in the authority endorsed the process. abandoned its child protection responsibilities altogether? The confusion is deeply concerning. Is the Home Office This is a question of the balance in the civil procedure now the lead Department or not? rules for expert witnesses. Social workers are expert witnesses and they provide assessments. If their assessments Mr Graham Stuart: Under the heading, “Who is are driven by management priorities, they are not following responsible for child protection?”the Education Committee their duty to the court. In fact, they are driven by report stated: management priorities a lot of the time. Another error that the Government are making is to reduce the use of “It is everyone’s responsibility…In Government terms, child protection in England is the overall responsibility of the Department independent social workers. Although the repeat player for Education, which issues both statutory and non-statutory prejudice can be a problem, an independent social guidance”. worker is not necessarily managerially driven to come to certain conclusions, whereas employees of the council Would the hon. Lady, like me, welcome an intervention often are. Civil servants make the error of assuming from a Minister to confirm that that is still the case or that an assessment is the same, whatever the managerial whether the situation has changed? pressure on the person who made it. The Lashin v. Russia case considered the question of expert evidence Lisa Nandy: I would welcome that. and concluded clearly that such evidence has to be It is my view that we must start with the child if we produced by somebody who has no interest in the are to tackle child protection. I have a huge amount of outcome or the conclusion of the case, otherwise they respect for the work that the Minister for Policing and are untrustworthy. Criminal Justice has done on children in the immigration 1219 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1220

[Lisa Nandy] in his care because she was just a few months away from turning 16. We have to start challenging these attitudes detention system over several years. He will know from in public. that experience that some children are at higher risk of There are many things we can do. First, we need to harm, including migrant and trafficked children, children support the social work profession better. In a recent with disabilities, child offenders and children in care, to survey of 3,000 social workers, a stark picture was name just a few of the groups that I have worked with painted of intolerable work loads, unqualified staff over the years. It is important that there is a focus on assessing children, social workers unable to spend time those children from a Department whose primary focus with the children they were tasked with protecting, and is the protection and welfare of children. Many of the thresholds being revised upwards so that, as one social Departments that come into contact with those children worker said, “Amber is the new green: children who have responsibilities that conflict with children’s welfare need and ask for our help are being taken away.” We and safety. It is therefore essential that the Department have to take this issue seriously. for Education takes the lead on child protection. I I was disappointed that the Government did not take would be grateful for that assurance from the Ministers on board our call for sex and relationship education to who are present. be made available in every school. We need to equip I endorse what my hon. Friend the Member for young people with the knowledge, skills and resilience Stockport said so compellingly about the importance of to withstand pressure, and to understand what constitutes communicating with children, listening to them and acceptable behaviour, including online. We have to get believing them. I spoke recently to a group of brave, better at preventing, rather than tackling, child abuse. articulate and inspiring teenage girls in Bradford who Only 6% of funding in this area is spent on prevention. had been through the court process. The stories that That is not a smart use of money—it is also an absolute they told me about what had happened to them and waste of children’s lives and we need to sort it out. how they had been treated by some, although not all, The role of hotels and bed-and-breakfast establishments front-line professionals will stay with me for the rest of in the abuse of children has recently come to public my life. It had scarred them deeply. attention. Many Members will know this from their own constituency experience. When police and local I endorse what my right hon. Friend the Member for councils strongly suspect that abuse is happening, they Oxford East (Mr Smith) said about support for parents. do not always have the tools they need to tackle it. One young girl told me, in heartbreaking terms, about There have been a number of reports of on-street how she still cannot talk to her mum, who is a single grooming across the country, including in Oxfordshire mum, about what happened to her because her mum and Rochdale, in which young people’s accounts of cannot believe that it happened to her child without her sexual abuse contain repeated references to hotels and knowledge. We need to do much more to support B&Bs. In one case, the police came across reports from parents if we are to support children. other guests at a hotel on the website TripAdvisor of I also endorse what my hon. Friend the Member for young girls being abused by older men. That abuse had Stockport said about the courts. I recently met a group not been reported to the police by the hotel or anyone of young boys and girls in Nottingham who had been else. through the court process. One of them had repeatedly Hotels and B&Bs were also the location for child been called a liar on the witness stand. When I asked sexual exploitation in up to one third of sites visited by her what she had said to the barrister who was calling the deputy Children’s Commissioner, in her inquiry into her a liar, she said, “You weren’t there. You can shut sexual exploitation which reported last November. I up.” I endorse those words. I am proud that she had the checked with the Library and it seems that hotels have courage to say that to him. I could not have put it better no specific legal responsibility to register guests under myself. the age of 16—only guests over the age of 16. All they have to do is ask for their name and nationality, so it is The court process had put those children through hard to track who is using them and when. They do not hell. They had seen the collapse of their cases. They had require a licence to operate unless they sell alcohol, and been called to court several times not knowing what to are under no specific obligation to report child abuse, expect and had then found that the case would not be although they do have general health and safety obligations. heard. They had also been told that they would be able That is not good enough. to use separate entrances and exits, only to find that Tackling this issue is essential, but not straightforward. they were next to the entrances and exits the people who It would make no sense to tie up the hotel industry in a had abused them were using, and that they were coming complex system of regulation that may not protect face to face with them and their families on the way in children. We know that those who do not recognise and out of court. We should, and must, do better. their responsibilities will often find ways to avoid them. I want to mention briefly the explosion of victim However, we cannot continue with a situation where blaming we saw over the summer. A 13-year-old girl some businesses are turning a blind eye to child abuse was labelled without any redress whatever. I would like the Minister “predatory in all her actions…sexually experienced.” to make a commitment today for the Department for Education to establish a cross-departmental working by the lawyer Robert Colover after she was sexually group alongside those who work in the industry—hotels, abused by a 41-year-old man, and the judge took into child protection experts, the police, local councils and account that she looked older than her age. A former others—to explore how the legal regulatory framework newspaper owner said that under-age girls were throwing can sensibly be strengthened to protect children. We themselves at adult men, and newspaper columnists know that we have to do more to protect children, and dismissed a 31-year-old teacher’s sexual abuse of a child this is one area where we can and should do more. 1221 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1222

2.4 pm We are seeing an increase in levels of basic post-natal depression, where parents who cannot cope and do not Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): get the support they need, do not give their baby the We are at greatest risk of dying a violent death when we loving attention the baby needs. While such babies do are less than one year old: in 36% of cases of serious okay, when they grow up they will not be able to cope child abuse and death, the victim is less than one year with life. They might become a bully or a victim at old. Child protection, therefore, stems so much from school, or they might just muddle on through, but when poor relationships that are set up in the very earliest life throws something at them—they lose their job, their days of a baby’s life. My serious concern is that while we boyfriend leaves them, or they do not have any friends—they do so much as a society to try to defend children and struggle to cope, because they do not have the emotional young people against the evils perpetrated against them, resilience that comes from healthy development. I am we are just firefighting. We are seeing an increase in the sure everyone in the Chamber has seen the neuro-images number of appalling abuses, and Members in all parts of the brain of a child aged three who is securely of the House have talked about them, but we are not attached. It looks, to use very technical terms, like doing something about stopping the causes of the appalling a lovely cauliflower. If we then look at the brain of a experiences that adults have that make them go on to three-year-old child who has been neglected or abused, abuse children. I put it to the Chamber that nobody it looks, to use another technical term, like a shrivelled invents becoming a paedophile, a child abuser or a prune. The developmental consequences of failure to sociopath—people are not born paedophiles. They become attach can actually be seen. paedophiles as a result of horrifying experiences they have when they are extremely young. This is called the What is incredibly important about a baby’s brain cycle of deprivation. It is absolutely the case that early development is that when it is born, it does not have a experiences will go on to determine what sort of person prefrontal cortex. The prefrontal cortex is the bit that we become. looks like the cauliflower or the shrivelled prune, but it is not there when babies are born. There is a huge I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for East growth spurt between six months and 18 months, which Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). He and I is stimulated by the loving care giver saying, “Aren’t you have worked on children’s issues for a very long time. gorgeous; you’re so beautiful; I really love you”—I do I recall him holding a children’s summit in Parliament not mean you, Mr Deputy Speaker, but please do not in 2003, at which I talked on the subject of early years take this as a personal rejection; I am merely trying to intervention on the day the Victoria Climbié report was give you an illustration. That stimulation—saying “peek- published. I would like to read out the comments of a-boo,” singing songs, talking to and mimicking the Peter Beresford, the professor of social policy at Brunel baby, looking into its eyes—sparks the growth of the university, which form the introduction to the 2003 baby’s prefrontal cortex. The baby learns that the world parliamentary inquiry into the death of Victoria Climbié: is a good place and that things are fine generally. The “The inquiry must mark the end of child protection policy baby thus learns to be extraordinarily resilient. built on a hopeless process of child care tragedy, scandal, inquiry, Are we not lucky that so many of us in this Chamber findings, brief media interest and ad hoc political response. There have had the benefit of good-enough parenting? It is is now a rare chance to take stock and rebuild.” not about being perfect, but about being good enough. From that day to this, while neuroscience shows us What we do not recognise as a society—and this certainly that all of our later responses to life are set out by our applies to the Government—is that there is a raft, even earliest experiences, we in the political world have failed an epidemic, of people who, temporarily or permanently, utterly to recognise what we do to a baby in the first two have utterly impaired abilities to form relationships. That years of life. In that crucial perinatal period—from the is usually the result either of their earliest experiences moment we are conceived until we are two years old—80% or of the temporary post-natal depression of their of our brain development takes place. Our infant brain mothers. Between one in seven and one in 10 women suffer at two years old is 80% of the weight it will be as an from post-natal depression. That means approximately adult. If we imagine the correlation with our limbs, we 100,000 babies being born every year whose need for would be walking around at the age of two with great attention to their earliest needs is not altogether met. big long arms and legs like a teenager, but with the body The consequences for the mums are terrible. I have of a two-year-old. The brain development of human known countless parents coming to me to say how beings is astonishing—1 million neural connections are utterly guilty and distraught—in some cases, suicidal—they made every second in the first year of life. felt about the fact that they did not really love their We cannot separate a baby’s brain development from baby and did not really feel happy to be a parent. We all its earliest experiences, which are a function of the know that it is supposed to be the most wonderful thing relationship between the baby and the primary care that ever happens to a person, but we do not necessarily giver, and that relationship is a function of the primary all feel that at the time. Feelings of guilt can be absolutely care giver’s own earliest experiences. What we do time there. and again is to deal with the consequences of what the At the moment, we do not do enough to look after red top papers call the evil sadistic paedophiles, the that problem. We have a midwife who ensures the safe abusers, the criminals and the psychopaths. We fail to delivery of the baby and if it is premature, millions see that 25 years previously, when the evil, cruel, sadistic might be spent on neonatal intensive care; if necessary, paedophile was a baby, they were probably being evilly, we will fly baby in a helicopter all around the country to cruelly and sadistically treated. That is the cycle of make sure that we keep it alive. If, however, a mother deprivation, and the sooner the Government acknowledge has a full-term, perfectly healthy baby but she is severely and accept that, the sooner we can take more steps to mentally ill—as a result of hormonal imbalances or for try to reverse an epidemic that is becoming worse. any other reason, such as a disastrous past—a complete 1223 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1224

[Andrea Leadsom] really be brutally honest and transparent about what happened in this case? At the crucial period—aged postcode lottery applies as to whether that mother will between three and a half and four and a half years get any support or end up killing herself and the baby, old—a young boy was going to school while his parents as we see all too tragically and all too often. were inflicting cruel physical abuse on him. It is difficult I shall wrap up my speech. I would like to end with to come to terms with the sheer evil involved in starving the thought that if we are serious about child protection, this poor child and then literally hammering him to we need to have a real revolution in support for the death. There was not even a motive for it, unlike in perinatal period. some cases where psychological factors might be at play or previous unfortunate personal experiences might be responsible. The motive in this case seems to be sheer 2.13 pm evil; that is what appears to have driven these parents. Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): In circumstances such as this, it is natural for those It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for responsible to recoil and not to want an outside independent South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom). She is view on their performance in the case. The council did extremely knowledgeable about these matters, as are not accept the case for that; it went for a standard SCR. other hon. Members, perhaps much more than I am. I I do not know how Amy Weir will perform as the chair am brought here as a result of a terrible and harrowing of the Coventry local safeguarding children board. Let case, which has recently shocked the whole nation—the us wait for the review; I do not want to prejudge it. I am death in Coventry of Daniel Pelka. His parents, now pleased to tell hon. Members that we will have it. It has both serving life sentences, having been convicted of not taken long; it has not been one of the those protracted murder, were living in my constituency. reviews that lose all topicality by the time they are Let me make it clear to all my hon. Friends, two of published. Unfortunately, public interest issues tend to whom I know are qualified social workers—[Interruption.] go in waves. That said, we should get the result on Three; I am grateful for the correction. I was impressed Tuesday next week. I might then have further occasion by that fact, and I know that these colleagues have been to comment on it here. at the sharp end, where things seem to go wrong. What I We do not expect answers today, but I would like the shall convey today are just my impressions—they are Minister to say whether he is entirely satisfied with the not informed by a depth of study—but I shudder to present system of serious case reviews. Is there not a think what the frontal cortex of Daniel Pelka must have need for a more independent element to be built into the looked like after he was killed by a hammer blow to the process right from the beginning? The importance of head at the age of four and a half. I know that the hon. independence inevitably arises when one sees the nervous, Member for South Northamptonshire is involved with cautionary reaction—aimed at self-preservation—of those early intervention—a crucial area—and I think she and involved in such cases. I know that a teacher of Daniel my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) who reported aspects of this case subsequently had a held a press conference about it this morning. We nervous breakdown. The issues and effects are not cannot leave matters at that, however, or think that purely one-sided. things do not happen thereafter. In this particular case My second thought for the Minister is that although of Daniel Pelka, the young boy was going to school in co-ordination between the different departments is obviously Coventry. necessary—all the departments have to be educated—if My first impression, then, is that somebody needs to we adopt the principle that everybody is responsible, get a real grip on the serious case review. I looked what happens in reality is that nobody takes responsibility. closely at the baby P case, when the then Secretary of This is where things became unstuck in Coventry. Nobody State with responsibility for children and education was seems to have felt, “Gosh, this is my case. I have got to presented with what he thought was a very poor serious look after this. I am responsible.” case review from Haringey council. I feared that the We heard the Chairman of the Education Select same would apply in Coventry, so I pleaded with the Committee say that the lead organisation was the council for some element of public accountability. This Department for Education, which I understand still is a public issue, and I have been astonished by the wide includes responsibility for children, but that was not geographical spread of the letters of support I have clear in Coventry. The first thing several councillors received since Daniel’s case became public. I have been said was that they needed to find out who was sent letters from right across the kingdom on a scale responsible—social services or education? In the end, it that compares with almost any other topic during my seems to have been education. I understand that the long period in this House. This was a public case; I report has already been sent to London education made the case, and then one saw the resistance building departments. I hope that it was not for vetting, but as a up among officials and politicians about having the courtesy—we shall see. It seems odd that those most issue opened in that way. involved do not see the report, but that the Department I was reassured because the new leader of council, a for Education sees it in its finished state before it is long-standing friend of mine, issued a very good statement made public or before it is even shown on a confidential following this case, making her position clear. She said: basis to MPs and others in the area. “I promise we will not absolve ourselves of responsibility. We’ll My right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East not shirk any difficult decisions we will have to make as a result of (Mr Smith) said that Members of Parliament should the review, and we will deliver any changes needed. We will be take an interest. We should and we do, but although we honest and transparent in the way we do this.” can take initiatives, it is no good expecting us to be I am sure she means that and that she will do that. The effective. I raised the issue of Daniel Pelka with the problem is, though, how good will the report be? Can it department, and was assured that it was in hand. The 1225 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1226 next thing we knew, the boy was dead. MPs do not have Time and again, children and vulnerable adults were a locus. We can highlight, push and prod, but we must betrayed by those whom they trusted. Even today, recognise the limitations of our own abilities and victims struggle to be heard. Known abusers are defended responsibilities. So the second thought that I want to by senior clergy. Some parents prefer to believe the leave with the Minister is whether we can ensure that priest rather than their own child. There are cover-ups, the lead responsibility is much more clearly established witnesses are fearful of coming forward, and members where it matters, which is within local authorities. We of some faiths are reluctant to go to the authorities must of course co-ordinate the police, social services because they do not belong to the same faith. departments and education departments, and all other I have looked into the issue in my capacity as chair of interested departments, but unless the lead department the all-party parliamentary group on child protection, is clearly identified, we shall not secure the positive and have concluded that, while it is essential for us to reaction and the intensity of interest that such cases find some way of ensuring that victims are heard and clearly demand. believed, a public inquiry may not be the best way of ensuring that we do what we need to do to protect Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman children today. I support other Members’ call for an give way? overall inquiry, and indeed I have written to Ministers about the issue, but now we can do better. The Government Mr Robinson: I am sorry, but I will not, because I can show that they are listening and understanding by think I have only three minutes left. On another occasion, addressing current failings. I shall be delighted to do so. Reasons for sexual abuse are found not in the teachings May I leave the Minister with one last thought? Since of any faith or religion, but in individuals who take I have become involved, through the Daniel Pelka case, advantage of the power, position, trust and authority in an issue on which I must confess that I had not been vested in them by an institution. There is evidence that active in the House before, I have been lobbied—I do faith leaders are taking some steps to ensure that cases not know whether we are still allowed to use that word, are not covered up, and that they are establishing robust but I have certainly been contacted and briefed very safeguarding policies that includes support for victims. heavily—about mandatory reporting by various good There have been changes in the way in which the Catholic organisations, including the National Association for Church and the Church of England deal with sex abuse People Abused in Childhood, which I believe is well cases, especially following the Nolan report and the respected. I do not know whether the Department has more recent Butler-Sloss review. The Bradford Council considered the issue, but, because time is short, I will for Mosques and the Bradford safeguarding children send the Minister a fuller brief on it, along with some board have worked together to produce a paper entitled background notes which I hope his officials will look at “Children do matter”. The Methodist Church has a and at least reply to. safeguarding policy, and has issued a joint statement I realise that this is replete with all sorts of dangers, with the Church of England on guiding principles. The particularly on the legislative front—unintended Methodists are undertaking a systematic review of sexual consequences and all that—but those organisations deserve abuse cases dating back to 1950, in order to establish at least an answer. They have been campaigning long exactly what happened and what the response was. That and hard, and I should be grateful if the Department is an excellent move, which I would like other faiths to would examine the issue and think about whether anything emulate. Lessons can be learnt, and our children can be can be done. I presume that some sort of amendment to better protected. the Childcare Act 2006 would be required, although I However, there is also evidence of continuing denial. am not sure what it would involve. Recent reports have suggested that a year ago, Cardinal Can we have an answer? Can those organisations Keith O’Brien blocked a similar review of abuse in the have an answer? I have raised this matter on their Catholic Church in Scotland. We need to look at the behalf, and I hope that the Government will consider it behaviour of faith institutions, and to ask whether the seriously. Let us see what they really think about it. proposals for change are sufficient and the pace of change fast and widespread enough. We need to understand that part of the abuse by people who represent faiths 2.22 pm stems from the fact that we expect more of them when Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): I am they are looking after our children. This is not just the grateful to the Backbench Business Committee for granting abuse of trust that we see elsewhere; it is a fundamental a debate on this important issue. In my speech, I shall betrayal of the beliefs held by members of those faiths. concentrate on the issue of sexual abuse of children in Organisations, including religious organisations, can religious institutions. I have met survivors of abuse and and must do all that they can to protect children, deter their advocates on a number of occasions. They endured paedophiles, and ensure that perpetrators are stopped terrible suffering, and they seek justice. They have called and face justice. They must change a culture that minimises for an independent commission of inquiry into the both the prevalence of abuse of children and its effects. sexual abuse of children by clergy in religious institutions, I was disturbed to discover from the internet that an not just in schools. organisation called Catholic Voices, which seeks to portray A public inquiry or similar process would undoubtedly the Catholic Church positively in the media, is minimising bring the systematic abuse of children into the open, the issue of abuse by Catholic priests. Its argument is and would outline the lessons of their experiences. An that it is much more prevalent in society in general than inquiry would highlight the betrayal and abuse of trust it is in the Church. Does it not understand that organisations by religious institutions—institutions that are meant to which are in regular contact with children must ensure look after the spiritual and moral welfare of children. that those who work with children in their name are 1227 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1228

[Meg Munn] I know that the Department says that it does not specify in relation to faith schools because they can be their responsibility? Those are astonishing statements of different types, but I worry that this is not clearly from a religious organisation that should be doing all it understood by those who run faith organisations. The can to prevent abuse. Contrition and action are what is make-up of local safeguarding children boards as set needed, not denial and deflection. out in section 13 of the Children Act makes no mention It is not just the Catholic Church that needs to do of religious organisations and “Working Together” is more. The Church of England has only just apologised silent on the issue. The Tackling Child Sexual Exploitation for the scandal of the abuse that took place in Chichester, action plan contains no specific action to work with and there are worrying reports from other faiths. A new religious institutions to address the issue. We treat religious book by a Muslim woman describes abuse that she institutions differently when we do not name them. suffered at the hands of her imam, and there has been a I believe there is more we need to do. The Children’s documentary about alleged cover-ups by Minister in correspondence with me has said he believes rabbis in some Jewish communities. However, this is not that mandatory reporting—the issue raised by my hon. just the responsibility of religious organisations. We Friend the Member for Coventry North West(Mr Robinson) must ask whether the law and the guidance are sufficient —is already in place. He states that any organisation to protect children in religious institutions today. Are must refer cases to the Disclosure and Barring Service we being complacent, and therefore complicit, when we and failure to do so is a criminal offence, but this relates say, as the children’s Minister said in a letter to me, only to issues about staff. Is it really clear, particularly “we encourage organisations to continue to improve their practices for religious organisations and voluntary organisations, to ensure that today’s children are kept as safe as possible”? that they must report suspected instances of abuse to The duties of all schools to safeguard and promote the relevant agencies? the welfare of children are made clear in the Education Some countries have mandatory reporting, and I Act 2002, which—along with additional guidance—places know that that is not the answer to all the problems, but a statutory duty on all schools to safeguard and promote I understand that those campaigning for mandatory the welfare of children, and states that all schools reporting are outraged, as we all should be, that a should have a child protection policy and child protection perceived gap in legislation means that a more senior procedures in place. The re-launched guidance entitled member of a religious organisation believes that it is all “Working together to safeguard children” states that right to move the person on, or ignores concerns, or safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility, which is welcome. makes up their mind to deal with the matter in house. Safeguarding is clearly the responsibility of everyone, This is not acceptable. particularly those who work with children. However, the list in paragraph 8 of the introduction makes no Child abuse is the scandal that we must tackle. I fear specific mention of anyone who holds religious office. that the Department for Education is complacent and The only mention of faith organisations appears at the must urgently review law and guidance to ensure that it end of chapter 2, which deals with organisational is an explicit requirement on religious organisations. responsibilities. Faith institutions must be in the mainstream Specific reference to all religious and faith institutions throughout documents on safeguarding. and their duty to safeguard children and vulnerable adults must be made in all appropriate legislation and Two other documents, “Safeguarding children and guidance to leave no room for ambiguity. We cannot be safer recruitment in education” and “Dealing with reluctant to deal with the problem for fear of accusations Allegations of Abuse against Teachers and other Staff”, of discrimination and prejudice. We owe it to children specify a duty to report abuse that is proven, but the to take action. institution concerned can make a judgment on whether there is not a case. Clearly judgments must be made, but we also need to have better oversight of the systems in schools and a mechanism to check that cases are being 2.32 pm reported appropriately. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. I congratulate the hon. Member Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): Given the tragedies for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) on that have occurred in the Catholic environment, I hope setting the scene and the hon. Member for Stockport the hon. Lady has not overlooked the fact that the (Ann Coffey) on her contribution. They told us what hierarchy of England and Wales, through the Archbishop this is all about. of Westminster in particular, has set up a safeguard arrangement, which is being followed through effectively. I can well remember my boys as children watching Jimmy Savile in “Jim’ll Fix It” and wanting to have Meg Munn: What I am saying is that it is the role of their dreams come true by meeting him. I am glad they organisations to do precisely that, but I am coming on never had their dreams come true. I cringe every time I to question whether faith organisations are taking that think about that loathsome person. His name is a seriously. When an organisation within the Catholic reminder of the fact that we have lessons to learn, and a Church puts on a website the other side of the coin on year on the question, through this debate, is whether we abuse and talks about minimising it, surely we can have learned those lessons. As MPs we all have constituents expect our faith organisations to say, “Not in my Church, coming to us with issues of children who have been not by my priests,” and to do everything they can to abused, or who have a partner who has abused them. ensure that, rather than saying, “Well, it’s not as bad as Sometimes the allegations are true; sometimes perhaps it is elsewhere.” That is not an acceptable attitude and they are not, but we have to advise on the correct way to speaks of denial and deflection. That is what I am handle those situations and the right people to see, and saying. we do that. 1229 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1230

We read the horror stories in the NSPCC report, them. They must get down to the child’s level, pat their which stated that more than half a million children and arm and speak soothingly. The bus driver must be very young people are estimated to have been a victim of aware of these issues and cannot be alone with a child. maltreatment by a parent or guardian last year and, If he is hugged, he must step away quickly, ensuring indeed, every year. All of a sudden the magnitude of the that someone else has noted his physical reaction. These problem becomes very real. There is still a part of me rules may seem extreme to some people, but they are that thinks that that figure cannot be right. How could what the Churches and other bodies that work with it be? How could half a million children and young children feel they must do to ensure protection from people be maltreated every year? We are a civilised those who in the past have abused their positions or country. We have a high moral code. Can that happen? abused children. The problem is that the figure is all too accurate for The more reports I read concerning abuse, the more known cases, and I am shocked at how many children wary I see we must become. One of the NSPCC’s do not get a real childhood. The hon. Member for recommendations is something which I know many South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) underlined Churches and youth clubs are having their leaders trained the importance of the early years of childhood and the in—that is, detection and quick action. The NSPCC bond between mother and child. Too often in those half report says: a million cases the bond between mother and child or “We need to look at the behaviour of institutions, public father and child has not been real. Had it been, perhaps services and professionals where failure to report concerns has we would not have had such cases. prevented action from being taken either to protect or intervene When we think of our own childhood, we remember at an earlier stage. We need to encourage them to discuss and the scrapes we got into with our brothers and other report their concerns about child abuse to ensure no more children children and the tellings-off that we got, but underpinning slip through the net.” everything that happened to us was a mum and a dad How true that is and what an onus it places on each of who loved us and were prepared to try to guide us. The us in this place and on every person who works with a thought that so many children in Northern Ireland and child. We have to be aware of such things and there the United Kingdom as a whole do not have that must be measures in place to help with raising this understanding saddens me greatly, and it makes me awareness. There must also be support for victims, more determined as a Member of Parliament to ensure which is sometimes forgotten, but it is underlined by that adequate protections are in place for our children. reported cases. We see that in our constituency work as MPs. People should be trained not only to spot the As I read the report I became more shocked to signs of abuse, but to help to deal with it. understand that for every child who is known to the authorities as being abused and on the register, there are I recently arranged a seminar in my constituency. I another estimated eight children who have suffered brought people from Barnardo’s down to the local town maltreatment. Fifty-six children were killed last year, hall and invited all youth leaders, Churches, teachers which is still more than one a week. Other Members and community workers in my area. They were given an have outlined those cases. More than one in five children insight into what signs to look for and what to do once experience serious physical abuse, sexual abuse or severe they had suspicions. More than one teacher told me physical or emotional neglect. Things must change and that they had learned something new. It gave them an we must move on. awareness of what happens and also taught them what to do next. Since the recent Savile case and the other child exploitation cases that have been mentioned, the National Perhaps the Minister could suggest what additional Association for People Abused in Childhood has had a funding will be made available to the regions of the 60% rise in referrals, cases and phone calls. The NSPCC United Kingdom so that people who work with children reports that calls to the helpline have increased from can be given the opportunity to receive training on how 44,500 in 2011-12 to 51,000 in 2012-13, and more to deal with child abuse issues, because they do not recently it has reported an 84% rise in sexual abuse always know what to do, when to do it and how to do it, referrals during June and July 2013 compared with the and we need to be aware of that. same period in the previous year. People are more aware Child protection seminars tell us who to report to if and they are coming forward. So what are we going to we have suspicions that a child is being abused, but we do to help? I know that there are stringent rules for are not trained in how to deal with the situation afterwards. working with children. The hon. Member for Sheffield, That must be offered to people who give up their time to Heeley (Meg Munn) referred to the need for Churches teach children or who give them a safe place to play or to respond positively, and I agree wholeheartedly. hang out with their friends. Will the Minister give us an I want to describe what we are doing in Northern assurance that additional help will be made available so Ireland, because it is important that a marker is put that people can receive that training, which could make down. Churches have introduced a code of conduct and all the difference to the life of a child? are specifically addressing the issues. I give the example Time has beaten me, Mr Deputy Speaker, and there is of my own Church, where we took a stand on the need so much more to say. Although steps have been taken to to do those things. In my Church anyone who works address child protection, I believe that a lot more can with children in any shape or form must attend a yearly and should be done. People should be aware of the child protection seminar and be police- checked every signs, know when to flag something up and, more few years, but is that enough? Is there enough importantly, know who to flag it up to. We need the understanding? When I listen to some of the women involvement of the community groups, the youth clubs, who have worked with children voluntarily for years, the homework clubs, and the Church organisations they say they are saddened that they can no longer pick such as the Boys Brigade and the Campaigners, which up a crying child and put them on their knee to comfort are run by unpaid volunteers who have a love for their 1231 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1232

[Jim Shannon] There is also a perception that child sexual exploitation only affects children in care. Looked-after children do children. We cannot afford to have voluntary sector account for a disproportionate number of the victims of organisations become so frightened about what they sexual exploitation and can be particularly vulnerable. can and cannot do and so unsure about how to raise An estimated 20% to 25% of victims are looked-after suspicions that they pack it all in. A little bit of knowledge children, with only 1% of the child population being in can made a difference to the life of a child. Rather than care. However, the majority of children who are exploited merely saying that each organisation should have a are still living at home when it happens. child protection officer in place, we should be making available the training to ensure that all those who work Another false perception is that it only affects young with children know the signs and the next steps to take. women. In truth, boys and young men are also targeted. The full extent is not known as boys, in particular, are I see my constituents who lovingly give up their time highly reluctant to come forward. Nevertheless, one in to work with children, and that little bit of attention 10 of the young people receiving support from Barnardo’s can make all the difference to a shy child. It can help for this crime are boys, and in some services the proportion with their education and make them feel loved. We is significantly higher. should ensure that the voluntary sector has all the help and support it needs to help and support children. This It is also important to acknowledge that women can House shines better when we agree on issues. Today we be perpetrators of this crime. For example, in a case all agree on this, and we will agree on a strategy. I urge currently being tried in Sheffield the alleged gang leader everyone to put their shoulders to the plough and see is a woman. Although such examples are rare, it is more that we get the work done for the safety and protection common that female involvement is in facilitating the of child and adult alike. abuse. The inquiry led by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner found that when women and girls were 2.41 pm identified as perpetrators, their role was primarily, although (Rotherham) (Lab): I start by echoing not exclusively, to procure victims. The sad and hidden everything my colleagues on both sides of the House truth behind such activity is that there is often a cycle of have said and hope that the Government will listen to abuse at work, with many of those women and girls our recommendations, because there is so much agreement having been sexually exploited themselves. on the themes that have been discussed and the changes There are no reliable figures for the total number that need to be made. of children experiencing sexual exploitation. The I am hugely proud to be the MP for Rotherham. The collection of data is a huge issue and there is no town has an esteemed industrial history, a strong sense standardised system for data collection, something on of community and many reasons to proclaim its civic which the Home Affairs Committee has made several pride. We have a multitude of success stories in recommendations. However, child sexual exploitation is manufacturing and small business, as well as three being unearthed wherever it is being investigated. Further leading further education colleges. However, for some work by the Government is required to determine the time a shadow has been cast across the town in the form full extent of the problem. In addition, the importance of persistent allegations of failures by key institutions of all agencies sharing information in the interests of to protect our children. The allegations have been coupled child safeguarding must be addressed. Currently, children with prosecutions for child sexual exploitation in the are vulnerable because information is not always shared town. between them. We must move away from the excuse of The term “child sexual exploitation” is used to cover confidentiality when it comes to protecting children. A a broad range of illegal activity, from seemingly consensual child’s safety must be the priority. relationships or informal exchanges of sex for attention, Much has been written in the press about how gifts or cigarettes through to very serious organised Rotherham is not doing enough to protect its young crime. Young people can be subject to physical and people from this horrendous crime. I can assure the sexual violence and can be put at risk of unwanted House that since being elected I have worked closely pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. Their families with South Yorkshire police and Rotherham metropolitan can suffer threats, violence and significant psychological borough council to find out whether our young people distress, disruption and even fragmentation. are getting the protection they deserve. It is totally Peer-on-peer child sexual exploitation happens too inaccurate to say that Rotherham is doing nothing to and can take various forms. For example, young people prevent this crime and prosecute abusers. Although are sometimes used to “recruit” others by inviting them more can always be done, and by the council’s own to parties where they will then be introduced to adults admission it has not handled historical cases well, I now or forced to perform sexual acts on adults. Technology believe that there is a commitment and drive by the can also play a significant role, with young people being services in Rotherham to protect every child, and I cajoled into using mobile technology as a way of distributing welcome the fact that the council has commissioned an images of abuse. independent inquiry. It is vital to understand that both perpetrators and victims can come from a variety of ethnic and cultural Lisa Nandy: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for backgrounds. Child sexual exploitation is not a crime giving way despite the short time available. I just want restricted to British Pakistani males or white British to reflect on the fact that sometimes it is the areas that girls, despite the media coverage of high-profile cases. have experienced these horrific crimes that are getting Indeed, recent findings have highlighted the fact that to grips with the problem and becoming leaders in girls of Asian origin are frequently the subjects of this dealing with it. Perhaps a lesson for the House and for heinous crime themselves. Ministers is that we need to look closely at those areas 1233 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1234 where such awful cases have not come to light and with children to report signs of possible abuse. As my ensure that they are doing the same things that my hon. colleagues have mentioned, four-year-old Daniel Pelka Friend talks about in relation to her constituency. was starved and beaten over a period of months before his death. Staff, teaching assistants and others at his Sarah Champion: I appreciate my hon. Friend making school observed his desperate attempts to forage for that case. As I have mentioned, wherever we look we food, his severe weight loss and the numerous bruises find such crimes, but a lot of people are not looking, and injuries he suffered. There is currently no legal and that is my worry. requirement for anyone working with children in the It is important that services are open to external UK to report suspected or known abuse either to the scrutiny and are accountable to the people they serve. appropriate local authority officer or to the police. From my research, it seems clear that the only way to Without such a law in place to support staff and protect tackle child sexual exploitation is by services working children, effective safeguarding will never be achieved. collaborative. The key focus must be on preventing, However, this is not only the responsibility of professionals. protecting and pursuing: preventing young people from Local communities play an essential part in identifying becoming a victim; protecting those who show signs of not only those at risk but those who have the potential being at risk of becoming a victim; and pursuing those to commit these crimes. We all have a duty of care to be who commit such horrific crimes. Realistically, local diligent and to report suspicious behaviour to the police. authorities, the police, the voluntary sector and health Unless we do so, this vile crime will continue unchecked. and education services all need to share their experience, data and resources if they are effectively to tackle and prevent this crime. 2.50 pm Rotherham works collaboratively. Its child sexual Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab): I am exploitation service includes specialist child abuse police grateful for this opportunity to speak today and to my officers, social workers, specialist health workers, parents, hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) youth workers and voluntary sector representatives. Its and the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham aim is to reduce sexual exploitation through deterrence (Tim Loughton) for bringing the debate to the Chamber. and prosecution, and it significantly enhances the I am aware that much of today’s debate has focused effectiveness of all agencies through joint information on the protection of children from sexual abuse, but I sharing, planning of assessments and investigations. I would like to highlight some of the generic failures in am pleased that Rotherham has adopted that working our child protection system, as it is those failures that method but extremely concerned that it is not a requirement often lead to the poor detection of such abuse. The across the country. The current situation means that question of how to protect our children from significant whether a local area has a good support team is genuinely harm has troubled successive Governments since the a postcode lottery. That is not good enough, because it abhorrent murder of Maria Colwell. Sadly, the fact that means that children are being put at risk unnecessarily. I her murder was followed by that of Victoria Climbié, urge the Government to make multi-agency safeguarding Peter Connelly and more recently Daniel Pelka indicates hubs a requirement in every area. that, despite the best intentions, the system can never be I have spoken about data collection, collaborative infallible; nor can it account for the horrors of human working and statutory requirements, but what this debate action. is really about is children and young people being Children have a wealth of professionals involved in abused. The effect of sexual exploitation on a child or their lives, and child protection is very much in the young person can be long term and highly damaging. It public psyche, yet opportunities for intervention can lead to difficulties in making and sustaining relationships and successful safeguarding are often missed. Those with others, feelings of worthlessness and shame, loss of opportunities are missed because social workers, police, confidence and low self-esteem. It is essential that we teachers and health professionals are operating in highly always remember the victims of these crimes and do all bureaucratic, constantly restructured and underfunded that we can to support them. These are young people services to such a degree that they inherently retreat whose childhood has been stolen from them, and their into their own cultures and service demands, instead of future, if handled incorrectly, could be damaged too. fostering good, robust multi-agency practices. We need to ensure that the process of addressing the The constant scapegoating and poor image of the crime does not become another form of abuse. I was social work profession has also permeated the minds of horrified to find out that a Rotherham victim had been the public and the wider agencies to such a degree that on the stand for seven weeks during the court process. social work knowledge and expertise are often undermined. That is unimaginable to me, and it should never be Each decision a social worker takes as a lead professional allowed to happen. The victims should automatically be has to be ratified and agreed by a number of other given counselling and as much support as they require. professionals, some of whom have not even met the Indeed, I would extend that to ensure that the whole child concerned. It is easy to see how children go family received support, as the damage caused by this unnoticed in such an adult-led agenda. All too often, crime can spread widely. the result is that social workers have to placate courts On a personal level, I am interested in determining and other professionals, and meet management targets, whether existing legislation is appropriate for tackling to such a degree that children are not seen as frequently the crime, and I will be working with Barnardo’s on this as they should be, and as a result are hurt, injured or, in topic in the coming months. I am also supporting the extreme cases, murdered. The lack of communication campaign led by Paula Barrow and assisted by the between agencies was cited as a contributory factor to @Mandatenow coalition calling for a “Daniel’s law”, the deaths of Maria Colwell, Victoria Climbié, Peter which would make it mandatory for professionals working Connelly and Daniel Pelka. Maria was murdered in 1235 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1236

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck] home for too long, being in limbo in foster care and awaiting adoption. Sadly, at times, the window for 1973, and Daniel in 2013. The tragedy is that, despite adoption, if that is deemed the best outcome for a child, 40 years having passed, the reasons cited for their has closed while their case has been locked in care untimely deaths are still the same. proceedings for too long. I therefore welcome the news Lord Laming’s inquiries into the deaths of Victoria of proposed changes to the public law outline, which and Peter resulted in the Labour Government introducing will ensure swifter conclusion of care proceedings, although the Children Act 2004, the “Working together to safeguard I am concerned that the Government do not grasp what children” document and the “Every child matters” White is happening on the ground. Paper. In early 2010, Professor Eileen Munro was asked Most local authorities and courts, in anticipation of to review child protection procedures. The recommendations the change, have been working towards swifter conclusions in all those reports are largely sound, and are ones that within the impending proposed 26-week time limit, but most professionals would subscribe to. The difficulty I suggest that the majority of authorities will struggle to each time has been that the implementation has not do that. The average time given by the courts for a matched the vision, and the progress on the parenting assessment is 12 weeks, and assessments for recommendations has been incredibly slow. wider family members can take just as long. I wonder The inquiry by the all-party parliamentary group on whether that rushed decision making has worsened the social work published this year states that situation of the children in those authorities that have “the social work picture is one of deteriorating, not improving, achieved those time scales. I would be interested to see children’s services departments, excessive bureaucracy working the repeat cases that come back into the court arena. against, not in support of practitioners, IT systems that are not fit A 26-week time scale might be achievable in isolation, for purpose, dangerously high caseloads for too many social but when most social workers are operating with difficult workers, low morale and concerns about a disconnect between the IT systems in bureaucratic, target-led, underfunded reform agenda and those on the frontline”. environments with case loads beyond safe levels and Since 2010, the system has been further weakened by reduced legal support, all these changes are doing is Government cuts to a number of organisations that increasing pressure and leaving social workers with less would have been able to alert services to potential abuse time to do what they are trained to do—work effectively and offer another layer of monitoring for the high-level with children and their families. cases in which children are at extreme risk. The Munro Simple, clear systems and less paperwork, backed up review recommended more preventive services, yet those by sound legislation that accounts for the fluidity and services are disappearing under the same Government reality of working in an environment that is not static who asked for the review. and recognises that not all children fit one box, as well In a time of unprecedented local authority cuts, the as a halt to the onslaught of cuts, would go some way to reality is that of shifting thresholds. For some children easing the pressures in our child protection system and who are deemed at risk, cheaper options are being minimise the risk of further tragic harm being done to touted—options that would maintain them in the home our children. in a risky environment, as opposed to the high-cost I would like to leave this thought with the Chamber: option of placing them in foster care, where they would how many times as Members of Parliament do we truly be safe. see the results of the child protection legislation we What worries me further is the uncertainty over probation pass? This is a closed and specialised area. I have seen it services. Multi-agency public protection arrangements at its best and at its worst. Now I am in this place, I are forums that manage high-level offenders, including hope to contribute to making our child protection child-sex offenders and those who pose a risk to our system the best it can be, so that we can minimise the children. The Government’s plans for probation are chances of further harm being done to our children. unclear. Concern has been expressed to me that, among other changes, multi-agency public protection arrangements might be outsourced to different areas of the country. 2.59 pm That would mean a child-sex offender, perhaps in my (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ constituency, being monitored from Leeds. That would Co-op): It is a pleasure to speak in a debate with the be unacceptable and would place children at high risk hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim of harm. Loughton) and my hon. Friend the Member for Stockport Child protection is about early intervention. The first (Ann Coffey), both of whom have done a great deal to three years of any child’s life are the most vital to ensure that the matter is on the agenda. I congratulate cognitive and motor development, yet Sure Starts that them on securing this important debate. specialise in that area are being closed across the country. I have had a long-standing interest in child protection, Studies completed by Professor Harriet Ward of through my time as an Islington councillor—I chaired Loughborough university highlighted the incongruence the neighbourhood services committee, which dealt with between the rights of the child and those of their some of the worst outcomes of the child abuse scandals parents and carers, and the lengthy court processes that in Islington council—and my three years as Home can delay pertinent decisions regarding a child’s welfare Office Minister responsible for the protection of vulnerable in those early years. adults and children. This is an ongoing issue. The principle in the Children Act 1989—maintaining Following my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, a child at home or in the family unit—is well meaning, Heeley (Meg Munn), I rise to speak particularly about but has often in practice resulted in chronic and long-term issues of witchcraft and possession, and how they affect neglect being overlooked. I have witnessed first hand child abuse in this country. I pay tribute to AFRUCA— the devastating effects of children being maintained at Africans Unite Against Child Abuse—and particularly 1237 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1238 to Debbie Ariyo, who set up that charity and does a I am pleased that the report by the Education Committee great deal to ensure that families affected by the issue, report of late 2012 touches on witchcraft, but it is only and professionals, get support. AFRUCA raises awareness, one small section of the report. I do not criticise the and provides information, education, and advocacy for Committee for that, but it is perhaps a reflection of how victims and families, as well as other services for families. the issue is still not widely understood or reflected in I know the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham society. Too often, perhaps, it is seen as an issue affecting is aware of its work and has supported it. one or two small communities, when its effect is wider The 2001 census suggested there were 587,000 Africans than that. I also welcome the fact that the Government living in the UK. That was surely an underestimate, and have a national plan to tackle abuse linked to faith or the number has definitely increased in size, due partly to belief, although I hope that the Minister would acknowledge birth rate. However, among Africans of all nations, who there is still a long way to go and that we cannot solve contribute so much to our country and particularly my this from Whitehall. However many edicts come from constituency, we have also seen a belief in witches come Whitehall or changes are made to the law, they will not with that migration. Whether it is “ndoki” in Congolese, solve the problem in those communities where the shame “jinn” in Tanzania, or the “aje” or “awozi” of Nigeria, of admitting the problem is very great. the concept of witchcraft has taken root in some churches The Government’s plans do not penetrate into the in my constituency and elsewhere. Churches in my constituency where such abuse might I do not have time to go into all the details of this be occurring, and it is also difficult for me to do so as horrific crime, but once a child has been identified as a the Member of Parliament. I have talked a lot to witch, they may be subject to psychological and emotional religious leaders and intend to do so more, especially abuse, physical abuse to “beat” the devil out physically, with some of the smaller, individual Churches set up by and in some cases families send their children back individuals, without a hierarchy. I have also talked to home to be dealt with—teachers sometimes discover the religious leaders of hierarchical Churches in my that through bruises on the body. There is often neglect constituency, including the Church of England, because and isolation from others, sexual abuse as a result of they are often the first to meet and talk to victims after that neglect, and lack of protection. Often, violent their own pastor has suggested a price for exorcism or exorcism is carried out by a faith leader. Some of the diagnosed possession. The Church of England’s own bogus pastors identified by AFRUCA charge families diocesan exorcist is based in Hackney and she will carry money to exorcise, and sometimes use violence to do out an official exorcism if other priests in the area have that. There can be real shame, which often leads to not had success through conversation and prayer with domestic abuse. For example, a father might be told the people who have come to them for help. I stress to that his child is possessed and that the mother is responsible the Minister that it is at this very local level that these or is also possessed. The shame on the family is such issues come out and, in all the work that he and his that domestic violence can result in the home. colleague with responsibility in this area do, they will not have direct links to this activity—how could they? There are many aspects to the issue that I do not have time to cover in total. Some research has discussed It is really important that in any action we find ways ritual abuse, but estimates for the extent of that are to get down to the most local level so that problems can sketchy and it is not what I intend to focus on today. be identified and immediate and swift support made The suspicion of witchcraft is not exclusive to African available, whether that is a small amount of finance, communities, but it has come to my notice partly through access to expertise or knowing when to refer, so that it is my African constituents. Traditional beliefs and some not put in a box marked too difficult to deal with Christian beliefs often include belief in a spirit possession, or—worse still—“Culturally sensitive, so we can’t go and factors that can increase suspicion, such as poverty there.” Nothing can trump the need to tackle child due to a lack of jobs and success, lead to increased abuse, and nothing is culturally sensitive when it comes accusations of children being involved in witchcraft. to the protection of our children. The main issues identified by AFRUCA involve the The Government need to work out how to reach far-reaching devastation caused by accusations of those small churches, and we all have a role to play in witchcraft, some of which I have touched on. They that as elected Members. The previous Home Office include the vulnerability of communities to rogue pastors—I Minister with responsibility for child protection issues mentioned charging for exorcism—and the belief that did not believe that faith leaders should be vetted or, if the issue can be dealt with within the community is necessary, barred. I would like the Minister to clarify powerful and difficult for the Government, or anyone, today whether that is still the view of the Home Office, to penetrate. I will ask the Minister some questions on or whether faith leaders should be vetted like others that in my concluding remarks. There is also a lack of who work regularly with children. protection for vulnerable families. In July I visited Nigeria—I chair the all-party group AFRUCA has been trying to work out the extent of on Nigeria—and met the federal human trafficking the problem, and estimates there are about a dozen agency. Nigeria is the largest source country of trafficked serious cases a year. From January 2011 to February people and many of these children, but it is often 2012, 11 cases were identified, including one of a child difficult to prove a case because of the witchcraft issue. with cri du chat syndrome who was accused of possession People are frightened of reporting things. The issues of and physically abused. I know that in Nigeria there is a witchcraft extend beyond our borders, but because children book that explains to pastors and others how to identify and women are trafficked into this country we need to children who are possessed, including children over six make sure that we have robust strategies for dealing months who are crying too much. The book would be with that, as well as for working with the Nigerian illegal in the UK, but it exists and, given travel backwards Government. I shall say no more about trafficking and forwards, it clearly influences some people. because today’s debate is about the more specific issue 1239 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1240

[Meg Hillier] Mr Graham Stuart: I am unaware of the point that the hon. Lady makes about the Department for of child abuse, but I have some questions for the Minister. Communities and Local Government failing to provide He may not be able to answer all of them today, but I properly for local safeguarding boards. Will she expand hope that he will write to me and other hon. Members a little on that? with the answers. How many individuals on the boards of our various Diana Johnson: I will say something about the Child child protection bodies—I do not need to spell out Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, which has which they are—have direct experience and understanding produced a report in which it says that local safeguarding of ritual abuse, witchcraft and such matters? In my boards are not fully able to perform the duties they have experience as a Minister, those individuals were very been given. Part of the problem with that is around inexperienced in those issues. What is the Government’s funding. Perhaps the Minister will respond to that position on the vetting and barring of ministers? Will point. he update the House on the workings of Operation Paladin and whether he has any plans to extend it? Who I pay tribute to the excellent contributions made by on the national body that he chairs on the sexual abuse hon. Members this afternoon. The hon. Member for of children has a real understanding of witchcraft? If East Worthing and Shoreham spoke with enormous this is to make any difference to many of my constituents, knowledge and expertise as a former children’s Minister, we need some understanding built into the system. and gave a long, grim list of what has happened over the What work are the Government doing with churches, past 12 months. He called for an overarching inquiry both mainstream and smaller—and especially those run into child protection to pull together the recommendations by individuals—to promote best practice and collaboration, in the plethora of reports and inquiries that have taken and to offer help if a church comes to a council or or are taking place. He also referred to a model in another body for support? That is key to getting to the Australia that is well worth looking at. nub of the issue. When people want help they should My hon. Friend the Member for Stockport—such a get it, and if they are doing the wrong thing they need doughty advocate for children—raised the importance to be challenged by law and prosecuted if necessary. of communicating properly and effectively with children, especially in relation to issues affecting child witnesses. 3.9 pm She gave very good examples of how that can be done. Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I The Chair of the Education Committee, the hon. congratulate the hon. Member for East Worthing and Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), spoke Shoreham (Tim Loughton) and my hon. Friend the about some of his Committee’s findings, including on Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) on securing this the issue of neglect and the challenges it presents to important debate, in which we have heard excellent and local authorities, the issues facing older children and well-informed contributions from both sides of the young people, and the thresholds for intervention—all House. It has been one of the best debates in which I important issues. have had the privilege to take part in the House of My right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East Commons. (Mr Smith) spoke incredibly powerfully about Operation The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice is Bullfinch and the horrific crimes in Oxford against leading on the issue of child protection for the Government children and young people, and the need for progress to today, and I am pleased that the children’s Minister—the be delivered for real change in child protection. He Under-Secretary of State for Education, the hon. Member called on all Members of the House to find out what is for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson)—has sat through going on in our constituencies. the debate as well. In the previous Government, the The hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Department for Children, Schools and Families took Hemming) spoke about his long-standing interest in the role of co-ordinating a cross-Government approach care proceedings. My hon. Friend the Member for to children and tackling child abuse, and it took that Wigan (Lisa Nandy) spoke with great knowledge and very seriously. It was interesting to hear the Chair of the made a passionate case for a clear lead in Government Education Committee question which Department is for child protection, as well as raising the important now in the lead on the issue. I hope the Minister for issue of the use of hotels and bed and breakfasts in Policing and Criminal Justice will reassure us about that cases of sexual exploitation. in his response. I am concerned that if the Home Office is the lead The hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Department, it is falling a little short in providing the Leadsom) spoke about the need for early years intervention, necessary co-ordination between Departments at national and gave a memorable, graphic description of a child’s level and between different organisations at local level. brain—a lovely cauliflower if the child was nurtured, For example, the Department for Education has only and a shrivelled prune if the child was being abused. My just appointed a chief social worker, has disbanded its hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West expert working group on sexual exploitation, and no (Mr Robinson) spoke about the appalling case of Daniel longer has a lead person on violence against women and Pelka and made a plea for clear lines of responsibility to girls. The Department for Communities and Local be identified. Government is failing to provide the support or resources My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley needed for effective operation of local safeguarding (Meg Munn), who has great experience of child protection boards. The Department of Health is failing to intervene issues, spoke about abuse within churches and religious to stop the confusion about where child protection faiths and the need for such organisations to face up to responsibilities lie in the reformed NHS structures. what they need to do to put their houses in order. 1241 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1242

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) show, talked about the need to provide awareness training, there were only 1,570 convictions last year. Of course, and my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah that may also reflect staffing shortages in regional police Champion) spoke knowledgably about issues in her forces, who support CEOP’s work but unfortunately are constituency and the need to share good practice. My losing thousands of front-line officers. hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell- I raised in a previous debate the issue of confusion in Buck) talked about the role of social workers with a the NHS as to where responsibility for child protection great deal of experience and knowledge, and raised actually lies. I was told that a Minister would write to important questions about probation and how public me, but I have not had that response. It is disappointing protection from sex offenders could be compromised by to learn that the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child some of the Government’s probation proposals. Finally, Health is reporting widespread confusion, lack of proper my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and training and a lack of understanding of child protection Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), who has vast experience at responsibilities within the NHS. local authority and ministerial level, raised the important issue of witchcraft and what our response to it should It is important that we maintain pressure on the be. Government to bring in sex and relationship education, because we know that it is an important way to enable I want to go through a few of the other issues that are children to understand what a proper and loving relationship pertinent to this debate, and to start with the question is. Finally, can the Minister explain what additional of an overarching inquiry, which the hon. Member for resources are being made available to keep children safe East Worthing and Shoreham raised at the beginning of when they use the internet? the debate. There are the investigations into Jimmy Savile’s conduct and why no action was taken by various institutions. There has been an inquiry into the Waterhouse 3.19 pm abuse scandal; the deputy Children’s Commissioner is conducting an inquiry into the culture of grooming; the The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian NSPCC, Barnardo’s and the Children’s Society have all Green): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for produced important reports. There have been a number East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) and the of serious case reviews, and the Munro and Kennedy hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) not just on reviews. The House has benefited from the excellent starting the debate in such a knowledgeable way, but on reports compiled by Members. The Home Affairs their long-standing contributions on this hugely critical Committee has produced a report on localised grooming, issue. I apologise in advance: I will try to deal with as and the Education Committee has completed an inquiry many issues as possible that have come up, but in into child protection. In addition, there have been excellent 10 minutes I suspect that I will not get to the bottom of reports from a number of all-party parliamentary groups. what is a very large pile. It goes without saying that child protection is an All these reports have given rise to many absolute priority for this Government and we are committed recommendations, and each makes recommendations to ensuring that children receive the protection they to different bodies and at different levels. We all want to need. Child sexual exploitation is an abhorrent form of see these recommendations translated into action. Like child abuse, no matter how, when or where it occurs. It many other Members, I think it would be ideal if one is good that these important issues are centre stage report was complied—similar to a serious case review—that because where child abuse takes place the effects on the brings together the various inquiries mentioned in the victim can be lifelong and devastating. It is vital, therefore, debate and makes clear recommendations, to be that victims feel empowered to come forward to report implemented at a local and national level, with clear abuse and that when they do, they receive the support lines of accountability. they need to recover from the trauma of this hateful The operation of the Disclosure and Barring Service, crime. whose job it is to prevent people who pose a danger to Many Members on both sides of the House have children from getting work with children, has been rightly highlighted the responsibility we all have to dramatically changed by the Protection of Freedoms ensure that we learn the lessons from the terrible cases Act 2012. The changes mean that the DBS seems to be that have happened in the past few years and that are barring fewer people. More than 17,000 people were still emerging. People need to have confidence that we placed on the barred list in 2009, but so far this year, the are getting to the truth. Again it goes without saying figure is 1,400. Perhaps most importantly, the Act that anyone who has any information about child abuse dramatically reduced the number of agencies that the or anyone who has suffered abuse, whether now or in DBS can share information with. Indeed, in many cases the past, should report it to the police. sharing intelligence with a school or youth club is forbidden, even after a Criminal Records Bureau check My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness is requested. Would the Minister like to comment on (Mr Stuart) and the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa those figures? Nandy) raised the issue of the various responsibilities in central Government. The Department for Education is The role of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection the lead Department for child safeguarding as a whole. Centre is vital. It has the expertise to profile offenders That remains so and my hon. Friend the children’s and to understand the processes of abuse. We need to Minister is here for this debate. Given the recent surge monitor carefully how it gets on as part of the National in cases of child sexual abuse, the Prime Minister has Crime Agency. At present, the police are aware of asked me to lead the national group tackling sexual 60,000 cases of peer-to-peer shares of child abuse images violence against children and vulnerable people across a year, but as figures obtained by my hon. Friend the Government. Therefore, although the cross-Government 1243 Child Protection12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Child Protection 1244

[Damian Green] home or care. On the policing side, the College of Policing and the Director of Public Prosecutions have co-ordination function on child sexual exploitation has launched a public consultation on revised guidance for transferred to the Home Office, the DFE is, as I say, the sexual violence victims. It was launched in June and lead Department for child safeguarding as a whole. runs until September. Although we are still consulting, I will come on to the national group’s work in a the new guidance is already in effect, which is critical if moment but I want to deal with the issue raised by my we are to move the focus of investigations away from hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham testing the credibility of victims to testing the credibility about whether we need an overarching public inquiry. I of the allegation and ensuring that the police listen to am happy to keep an open mind on that, but my main victims. priority is that in any of the agencies that are tackling In the criminal justice system, we have improved the child sexual exploitation no one’s energy and attention experience of victims by launching the new criminal should be diverted from the urgent work and changes justice strategy, which includes significant measures to that need to be taking place now. We need to be learning improve the court process for victims of sexual abuse lessons from the inquiries and investigations that have and exploitation. As the hon. Member for Stockport concluded and that are still going on. The deputy acknowledged, later this year we shall be piloting measures Children’s Commissioner has done valuable work and for recorded pre-trial cross-examination of vulnerable an extension of her report will come out in the next and intimidated witnesses. I agree with her that it is couple of months. important that victims do not have terrible experiences in court. Andrea Leadsom: Does my right hon. Friend agree On the online front, leading companies have pledged that, as many hon. Members have pointed out, we have £1 million to the Internet Watch Foundation, which will been through this so many times—my first experience strengthen the work that it is doing in tandem with the of speaking in this place was in 2003 on the day that the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre to Victoria Climbié report came out—but nothing changes? identify child abuse images. On wider child protection reform, on 21 March this Damian Green: I hope that I will be able to explain to year we published statutory guidance entitled “Working my hon. Friend and the House that a lot is changing together to safeguard children”, and we have strengthened and in particular a lot has changed as a result of the the role of local safeguarding children boards in holding setting up of the national group, which is made up not the local agencies to account, providing funding to the just of various Government Departments but the delivery association of independent LSCB chairs to drive forward agencies, the inspectorates, the police and the voluntary that improvement and share good practice across the and community sectors, which are particularly valuable. network. We are also continuing to drive improvements It has a core focus on reducing the vulnerability of in the quality of serious case reviews so that the system victims, reducing the risks from abuse of authority and learns from past mistakes. power and improving our systems in dealing with these crimes, as well as strengthening local accountability. I was asked whether there would be a review of what Helped by members of the group such as the NSPCC, went wrong in Oxford and Operation Bullfinch. The Barnardo’s and Rape Crisis, the group is taking the LSCB in Oxford has commissioned a serious case review lessons learnt from recent inquiries and police investigations. to learn the lessons and will ask precisely what went It has identified nine areas for action, four of which I wrong and make sure that it does not happen again. have said should receive particularly urgent attention. I was asked about hotels and bed and breakfasts. Since the group was established last April, we have Earlier this week, I attended the launch by the National already made progress in these priority areas. Working Group Network charity and the Children’s In July this year I launched the progress report and Society of a new toolkit for local practitioners, which I action plan for the national group, together with our think will be useful. early findings on multi-agency safeguarding approaches. The hon. Member for Coventry North West I echo the words of my hon. Friend the Member for (Mr Robinson) raised the Daniel Pelka case. We have East Worthing and Shoreham and others that the multi- strengthened arrangements for serious case reviews and agency safeguarding hubs are doing good work to help we will see what the case review has to say next week. local areas put in place effective arrangements. I agree On the issue of child protection at a local level, everyone with those who said that what happens in local areas who works with children obviously has responsibility. will make a difference to children. The MASH that I The hon. Gentleman asked whether, if everyone has visited in Staffordshire is certainly doing excellent work responsibility, no one has responsibility to avoid it. in ensuring that there are no cracks through which That is why the local safeguarding children boards have children can fall. the key and central role and why we have sought to strengthen them. Mr Robinson: Will the Minister give way? Various hon. Members have called for mandatory reporting of concerns. There is already a clear framework Damian Green: I apologise to the hon. Gentleman. If in place for all who work with children to report concerns. I keep giving way, I will not get through any of the The statutory guidance is clear that immediate referral responses that I want to make to points that have been should be made to a children’s social worker if there is made. concern about a child. So I hope I can reassure my hon. It is reasonable to ask what the national group has Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea achieved. We have issued new guidance for consultation Leadsom) that already in a few months many changes on protecting children who go missing or run away from have been made. 1245 Child Protection 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 1246

Points have been made about culture in the context of Employment Rights Christian Churches and of groups of often predominantly Pakistani heritage men grooming and abusing white British girls. It is worth saying that political or religious 3.30 pm sensitivities must not get in the way of preventing and Mr Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton) uncovering child abuse. The same laws apply to all of us (Lab): I beg to move, in this country whatever our background, religion or That this House has considered employment rights. ethnic origin. There are no excuses for anyone committing this disgusting crime. The vetting and barring arrangements Hitherto, discussion of the impact of austerity has apply to those who are working in a faith context as focused largely on public services being cut, benefits much as anyone else; I can assure hon. Members of being slashed, jobs being lost, insecurity becoming rampant, that. and wages falling—they are now, in real terms, 9% below the 2007 level. However, another process has I thank the many Members who have contributed to been going on during this time which is equally relentless a serious and very good debate. and callous but which has not been accorded the attention it deserves. Remedying that is part of the purpose of Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr ): Order. Can today’s debate. I refer, of course, to the continuing I sit the Minister down? It is now 3.30 pm and we vicious attack on employment rights. should have started the next debate. I am sorry that there are not two more minutes for winding up. Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): Will the Question put and agreed to. right hon. Gentleman give way? Resolved, That this House has considered child protection in the UK. Mr Meacher: No, I do not have time because of the two ministerial statements and the overrunning of the previous debate. A lot of other people wish to speak, and I want to be fair to them. Because this attack has been pursued piecemeal and gradually across a wide spectrum of employment law, its cumulative impact has been concealed, but collectively it amounts to something very substantial. Workers with less than two years’ service in their current job have already lost the right to go to a tribunal over unfair dismissal. Very recently, fees of up to £1,200 have been introduced for anyone who wants to make an application to an employment tribunal. Then there are the heartless cuts—drastic cuts of £1,500 to £2,000—in compensation for the innocent victims of crime in occupations that deal directly with the public. Now the Government have plans for a further range of attacks on employment rights. Proposals for reducing consultation rights over redundancies are well advanced. The Government want to introduce so-called settlement agreements to make it easier for employers to pressure or bully workers they want to get rid of into resigning. Compensation for unfair dismissal is to be limited. Even though there has been widespread opposition, and only lukewarm support even from business, the Government have still pushed ahead with introducing a new employment status of employee shareholder so that employers can buy out the rights to unfair dismissal, statutory redundancy pay, time to train, and the right to request to work flexibly. The Government want to reduce the protection that TUPE offers to workers who have their job transferred to another business. In addition, leading Tories, including the Mayor of London, are making noises about attacking trade union facility time, increasing thresholds for strike ballots—to levels, I might say, that no politician would dream of allowing with regard to their own election—and making statutory trade union recognition even more difficult. This sledgehammer—I do not think that is an exaggerated word, because cumulatively it amounts to that—attack delivered piece by piece to weaken the whole range of employment rights is clearly designed to overturn the social settlement after 1945 and return Britain to workplace conditions similar to those operating in the 1920s and ’30s when employers flaunted 1247 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1248

[Mr Meacher] state of inequality today that the directors of the biggest companies are now paid—or, rather, pay themselves—more overwhelming market power. The attack on the Agricultural than £60,000 a week, while the national minimum wage Wages Board has already removed the last vestige of the is just £200 a week. The Resolution Foundation estimates wages safety net, which was originally erected by Winston that 4.8 million workers—one in six of the total work Churchill, and the removal of strict liability from health force—are not even paid that: they are paid, illicitly, and safety law means that in future injury victims will below the national minimum wage. have to prove negligence even when their employers On top of that, we now have a blizzard of zero-hours have brazenly broken the law. contracts. A very large number of people—at least The one area of employment law that the Tories have 1 million, although I do not know what the truth is and not been able to touch has been those rights provided I do not think that anyone else does, either; some put for by the European Union: paid holidays, health and the figure as high as 5 million—have no fixed income or safety, equal treatment for part-time workers and women, fixed hours by which to plan their lives. The epidemic of protection when a business is sold off and a voice at agency work, which was used to increase the casualisation work. They are all valuable rights. By repatriating those of labour and to undermine security, may have largely rights—I think this is a big part of the motive of current been quelled as the result of a lot of pressure, particularly Tory Euroscepticism—the Government will make it from the unions, but we now have a situation in which easier for bad employers to undercut good ones, which rogue employers—there are many good employers—have was, of course, the reason why Winston Churchill favoured alighted on bogus self-employment and the mandatory wages boards in the first place; to drive down wages; Work programme, alongside increasing the normalisation and to make people who already work some of the of zero-hours contracts, as the latest artifice to pay longest hours in Europe work even longer hours. workers less and to weaken their terms and conditions. Let me describe the situation for Members, because Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): we in this House do not experience it. The abuse of Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? zero-hours and agency work is devastating. It means that people run out of money during the month and Mr Meacher: I am extremely reluctant to give way. I that borrowing from payday lenders is routine. It means will give way to the hon. Lady, because I respect her, but that people have to look for additional employment, if I will not give way again so as to be fair to everyone who that is allowed by their first employer. It means high wants to speak. levels of anxiety. People have no savings or contingency money and no access to credit. There are penalties for Andrea Leadsom: I am grateful to the right hon. workers who try to rent accommodation, sanctions if a Gentleman. I just want to make the point that repatriating worker tries to speak out and contracts that imprison powers from Brussels is not a back-route attempt to do workers on zero hours with the same employer, often down the rights of workers; it merely reflects the fact for more than three years. that this Chamber is more than capable of deciding the Zero-hours contracts are not a small matter; they right rights for workers, and they may be more, not less have spread right across the economy into police services, generous than those determined in Brussels. social care, manufacturing, hospitality, the charitable sector and elsewhere. When profits have never been so Mr Meacher: I think the hon. Lady is being a little high and when the ultra-rich and corporate elite in this disingenuous. The truth is that Conservative Governments country have never had it so good, this is a despicable in the past have continually whittled away at employment demeaning of the working conditions of a large section rights. I am not very proud of some of the record of of the work force, which some people—I am not saying previous Labour Governments, either, but the one body that I would use this phrase—understandably describe that has ensured that the rights that are so important to as a modern form of wage slavery. so many people are put in place is the much abused EU. Another alarming and dangerous aspect of weakened The policies I have mentioned are unjust and harsh, employment conditions that is becoming more widespread but the point is that if we want to bring about a is the impact on health and safety. In the building dynamic and successful economy—as I think everyone industry, false self-employment through the device of does—this is the last way to do it. A low wage, low skill, payroll companies not only costs taxpayers £1.9 billion low morale, low productivity economy is not the right a year in lost revenue, of which £1.2 billion comes from way to proceed. employers avoiding national insurance contributions, This litany of measures—I will not call them reforms, but has serious implications for site safety. Sites that use because they are anti-reforms—have several other false self-employment often have a higher accident rate dimensions. One of the most glaring is the class basis of because they usually do not have independent safety all this: grinding down the pay and terms and conditions representatives. They also have a higher turnover of of the most vulnerable and poorest people at the bottom, staff, meaning that safety measures are often lost, are while at the same time endlessly amplifying the excessive not heard or are fragmented. The fact that falsely remuneration and bonuses at the top—greed at the self-employed workers can be fired without warning pinnacle, repression at the base. means that they are far less likely to raise safety concerns. Bankers who wrecked the economy are seeing their That explains why, over the past eight years, more than bonuses increase this year to, I think, more than £6 billion, 55 construction workers a year on average have been while ordinary workers are experiencing the longest fall killed just doing their ordinary work. in real wages in this country since the 1870s, with four Similar conditions apply on the railways. Network out of every five new jobs created since 2008 being low Rail uses more than 500 contractors and labour-only paid and often insecure and short-term. Such is the suppliers. Less than 10% of its workers are engaged on 1249 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1250 permanent contracts. The Office of Rail Regulation has labour that is not organised, have reached an equilibrium stated, rather delicately, that it is with the rights of capital and management. I accept “mindful of the considerable risks that can arise from safety that right hon. and hon. Members on the Opposition critical staff working for more than one employer”. Benches will disagree with that. That is a hopeless understatement. The practice is clearly I am very pleased to say that the days of images of dangerous. We should not tolerate such fragmentation employers sitting in their brown leather chairs in gentlemen’s of employment being used to cut corners when it puts clubs in Pall Mall sacking workers at will, and the human lives at risk. images of people driving up and hiring those who are In conclusion, Britain will not be a civilised place to desperate for employment for a day or two days, have work until all workers are paid at least the living wage; long gone. Workers have won their rights the hard way free access to justice for aggrieved workers is fully and I would oppose any attempt to take them away. restored; bogus self-employment is ended; health and However, it is my contention that while low pay is a safety regulations are independently enforced in all significant problem and I would never make light of it, dangerous occupations; zero-hours contracts and agency and while poverty is a significant problem and I would work are strictly regulated, if not eliminated, to ensure never make light of it, the balance today is very different. that important and necessary working rights are not The argument that private sector employment spends sacrificed; all workers who have been blacklisted—a its time trying to get around the labour laws by coming practice which recently came to light—are fully compensated up with devices, such as zero-hours contracts and casual and a public inquiry held to ensure that it never happens labour, is not only misleading but insulting to the many again; wages councils are reintroduced because, as Winston businesses, small and large, in my constituency that are Churchill understood, they are the only effective way to expanding. They are taking on labour and apprentices— protect the very poorest; and, finally—because I do not whoever they can—because they have confidence in the just want to eliminate the negatives—a positive platform economy and in their employees. Employees are a very is established for employment rights through a partnership expensive commodity for employers, because of training between management and the unions in the running of and the time it takes for recruitment, and employing companies. That concept, which this House should people is not done lightly. It is not something that encourage, has long been the mark of some of the most employers do just because they think, “Well, I’ll try it successful companies abroad, including in Germany. for a few weeks and then if it doesn’t work I’ll fire them This Government, like other Governments of the past, and make them get on with something else.” Life today have an appalling record on employment rights. Until is not like that. I can say that, having been an employer that is fully reversed, we will not earn our right to be most of my life. In our current position we are all called a civilised nation. employers, albeit on a small scale.

Several hon. Members rose— Julian Smith: Will my hon. Friend clarify how many people he has created employment for in his long career? Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. There is a seven-minute time limit on Back Bench Richard Harrington: In one business, I started with contributions. It may be necessary to revise that time two employees, of which I was one. When I left, the limit down, depending on how we proceed. business was responsible for 2,000 employees in seven countries, but I cannot claim full credit for that since Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con) rose— the purchase of the company, when there were 600 employees. I therefore have some experience of being an Madam Deputy Speaker: When the occupant of the employer, and of seeing different regimes in different Chair stands, Members are supposed to sit. Now that I countries. I am absolutely appalled by the exploitation have finished speaking I will sit down, the hon. Gentleman of labour, in whatever country it may be, by those who can stand up and I will call him. employ people on wages that are not living wages. Whatever the law is, I believe that a morality applies: 3.45 pm employers should not employ the labour if they cannot Richard Harrington (Watford) (Con): I must apologise afford it. for my lack of co-ordination in sitting down and standing In the limited time available, I would like to say a few up, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will endeavour to correct words about zero-hours contracts. It is very easy to that in future. criticise them, without really understanding what they I listened carefully to the speech by the right hon. are. The general public might think, from reading Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) newspapers, that these contracts are like the casual and wondered if he was living in the Britain of Benjamin labour of old. Actually, they are not. This may sound Disraeli’s book “Sybil”, or the United States of “The like a GCSE question, but are they about modern Grapes of Wrath” by John Steinbeck. It is not the employment flexibility or old-fashioned exploitation? It Britain I recognise today. Historically, I agree and accept is clear from his speech that the right hon. Member for that in the industrial revolution and beyond—I include Oldham West and Royton feels that these contracts are his point about the 1920s—there was large-scale exploitation very much like industrial revolution-type exploitation of workers by organised capital and its management. I of labour. know that that sounds a bit Marxist for Conservative It is certainly true that there are some abuses of these Member, but I accept that that happened. Today, however, zero-hours contracts, and that should not be tolerated. I thanks very much to trade unions and, I might say, the am delighted that the Department for Business, Innovation endeavours of the Labour party in the past, there is now and Skills—I am pleased to see in her place the Under- a situation where the rights of organised labour, and Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, 1251 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1252

[Richard Harrington] employ between two and nine people in my Watford constituency are thinking about is how to recruit people the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson)—is as cheaply as possible in order to exploit them. Taking conducting a full inquiry into zero-hours contracts, and people on is a huge thing; businesses want to give them we all very much look forward to hearing its findings. good and well-paid jobs. They do not want to take away My proposal is that many companies in all types of any moral rights, let alone legal rights, that they have. industry use zero-hours contracts responsibly.They provide It is time for us politicians to give credit to those who work, for example, to parents who have different needs employ people. They are not the enemy. Being able to for child care and to students, and they provide employ people is a great privilege in life, while waking opportunities for people to join the work force in a up in the morning and thinking how responsible we are flexible manner, perhaps while they study or carry out for so many people’s livings is a big responsibility and other commitments. Companies that use these contracts burden. It is even more of a burden than the one that we responsibly offer full training, paid holiday and all the politicians bear. I do not think that the situation is other things that people in normal employment receive— black and white. I do not take these matters lightly, but and so they should, both legally and morally. They do the fact is that, in the modern age, there must be a not ask people simply to be on call at all times or balance that enables workers to choose where to be prevent them from knowing how much they are going employed and enables employers to plan their businesses to earn. with good, well-qualified labour. Employees should not Let me cite McDonald’s as an example. Here I must have to pretend that they are stuck there for life, or that disclose an interest in that my younger son has been their employers are stuck with them for life if things do working for the company over the summer. Interestingly, not work out. McDonald’s employs 92,000 people in 1,200 restaurants. Many Opposition Members sneer at this kind of work; 3.55 pm they call it “McD work” and there are many other John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I do clichés that go with it. McDonald’s, however, takes a not disagree with the views of the hon. Member for pride in the employment it offers and in the training it Watford (Richard Harrington) about the need for an gives people. During the application procedure, it asks element of balance in relationships at work, and the how many hours people want to work, and it organises need to secure long-term employment. I think that its shift systems accordingly. I ask all hon. Members not those are our overall objectives: we want to create a to view zero-hours contracts in completely black-and-white productive industrial relations climate. My right hon. terms; I think there is a place for them. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton To finish, let me explain that during my employment (Mr Meacher) was right to end his speech by referring career, I did a lot of business in Spain and a lot in the to the need to engage with workers and involve them in UK. I regret to have to tell you, Madam Deputy Speaker, their firms’ plans. that in Spain, where youth unemployment stands at Let me give four brief examples of abuses in parts of more than 53%, much of the problem stems from the industry that we need to address in the House. The fear of employers knowing that if they recruit people Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union is currently but things do not work out, they will be left with a involved in a dispute at the Hovis company in Wigan. terrible liability. They are not employing people and not Hovis has been taken over by Premier Foods, and there giving people a chance because of the type of laws that have been a great many layoffs. The union has negotiated certain Opposition Members would have us embrace in as best it can in order to secure the long-term future of this country. the company, as well as what is best for its members Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): who are being laid off, but there have been abuses, one The latest unemployment statistics in Beverley and of which seems to be occurring in other parts of industry Holderness are 3.3%—considerably down from the general as well. election—and we have one of the highest apprenticeship Hovis in Wigan started to take on workers who were rates in the country. Does my hon. Friend agree that the paid less and had less favourable conditions than the only way we will be able to get the living wage and above existing workers, and also to use zero-hours contracts. as the norm for everyone is by improving our skills? Is That led to a strike. A negotiation took place and the that not what the Government are trying to do by union thought that the dispute had been resolved, but strengthening the quality of apprenticeships, some of the company then started to employ agency workers. It which lasted for just six weeks when the Labour party used what is referred to as the “Swedish derogation”, wasinpower? which means that an agency can employ staff directly, and those staff can then work alongside others while Richard Harrington: As ever, my hon. Friend makes a being paid less and experiencing less favourable conditions. very good point. Members may recall that the hon. Member for Harlow To conclude, the future for labour and recruitment (Robert Halfon) raised the issue in the House only a will, in my opinion, come about by making labour as month ago, in connection with Tesco. Such practices cannot flexible as possible. Employers do not want to hire and be acceptable according to anyone’s standards of decency fire people; they want to invest in people and train or justice, and we need to look into the Swedish derogation them. I commend the Government for putting in resources and how it is being abused by some employers. to help them do that. This old idea of a perpetual battle The Hovis dispute is still going on, and is becoming between labour and capital, and between management bitter as a result of the Government’s intransigence and and working people, makes me wonder which century its use of various different devices. The union has taken some people are living in. It is not like that in the every possible opportunity to try to secure a negotiated real world. The last thing that the 1,400 businesses that settlement. 1253 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1254

Let me give another example. For a number of years, scheme. We know from the Consulting Association, the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport which was mentioned the other day, which companies Workers, which represents the majority of seafarers in were participants. They should be brought together to this country, has lobbied Government—the last one set up a voluntary compensation scheme. If they do and this one—in an attempt to ensure that the national not, we should introduce a statutory compensation minimum wage applies to all seafarers working on ships scheme. operating out of UK ports. What has been happening is Finally, exploitation takes place nearer home as well. that the minimum wage has not been applied to those The Members Tea Room staff are having their contracts who are not European economic area nationals. On torn up. Some of them have been on those contracts for some ships, people working alongside British seafarers 20 years or so. They are told that the new contract is a and doing the same job as them are being paid £2.25 or re-interpretation of existing contracts. It means that £2.35 an hour, which is not acceptable. their terms and conditions are being cut. We need to The last Government introduced some legislation ensure that we protect our colleagues who work alongside and undertook a consultation, and a working party was us in this building, as well as others for whom we want set up. The current Government have retained that to secure employment rights. working party and have made recommendations, but companies are still paying ridiculously, appallingly low 4.2 pm wages. We have just discovered that Condor Ferries, which sends ferries to the Channel Islands, is paying Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I congratulate people £2.35 an hour, completely ignoring the national the right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton minimum wage legislation. No one finds that acceptable. (Mr Meacher) on securing the debate. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hayes My right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and Harlington (John McDonnell). I know that and Royton mentioned railway track workers. Network employment rights are an issue for which he has fought Rail is now using hundreds of sub-contractors. Members for a long time and I appreciate some of the information may recall that track maintenance was brought in-house that he discussed, especially in relation to Network Rail because of health and safety problems that resulted in and the maritime industry. I want to explore those some tragic accidents, including two near my constituency, topics further because I support his comments. one at Paddington and one at Southall. I attended the funeral of a driver who died in one of those accidents. I compliment my hon. Friend the Member for Watford We discovered that track workers were being employed (Richard Harrington). It is not the first time I have by contractors and sub-contractors, and there was no tended to agree with him when he has spoken in the supervision of safety whatsoever. That is the case again House. Although employment rights are very important— now, because, as my right hon. Friend pointed out, crucial in many ways—and I will discuss them as my fewer than 10% of track workers are now employed speech progresses, to me the most important thing that directly by Network Rail. the coalition Government have achieved in the past three years is a remarkable success on the jobs front. I We are finding that a new device is being used, as has have only to look across the sea to see what has been been mentioned. Track workers are urged—almost happening in Europe, where France, Spain and Italy browbeaten—to sign on to payroll companies, which have been devastated by the numbers of people who the sub-contractors then use. Workers have to pay the have become unemployed, and compare that with what payroll companies just to be paid themselves, but it is a we have achieved in the UK through considerable effort device used by those companies to avoid tax. We need by employers in the private sector, by Government in to examine the practice, both as a tax avoidance issue, the public sector and by our fellow citizens. which is a scandal, and because some track workers are We have employed almost 1.5 million people in the contracted at the same time by up to 20 different toughest recession I have ever been through. I am contractors. They are given bits of work by each of 56 years old. I was in business for many years before I those employers, and they are sometimes pressurised went into politics. This is my fourth downturn and it is into zero-hours contracts as well. I believe that Network far and away the toughest one that the country has been Rail’s overall supervision from the contractor to the through in my experience. Despite that, by working sub-contractor to the worker is breaking down, posing together to give so many people jobs in comparison a real risk to health and safety. with the rest of Europe is testimony to the enormous We discussed blacklisting at length during the debate effort and work that so many people have done in this on the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning country. It is brilliant. and Trade Union Administration Bill, and also a few In Eastbourne, following close working between the months ago. The blacklisting of workers continues. We chamber of commerce, the Federation of Small Businesses, have just had an example of Crossrail blacklisting a the council and the training colleges, the latest figures worker. There was a campaign which resulted in mass for August show that unemployment is down to 3.9%, demonstrations, with hundreds of workers turning up the lowest rate since 2009. We have seen more than on the site and blocking the roads around it. There was 2,500 apprenticeships since I launched the 100 apprentices a great deal of coverage in the press, which Members in 100 days campaign two and a half years ago. may have seen. Crossrail has now settled and that worker has gone back to work. My point is that this has been an appalling recession. I know so many business owners and staff who have The case demonstrates that that still happens and worked so hard over the past few years to keep jobs and that blacklisted workers still find it difficult to secure get through the recession. I know employers who have compensation. Legal cases are taking place. We need said to their staff that no one would get a pay rise for to come back to the proposal of having a compensation the next 12 months, or 24 months, including directors, 1255 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1256

[Stephen Lloyd] pay or deliberately forces themselves in bankruptcy so that they can start again under a different guise. I know so that they can get through. Other employers have said that the Minister is looking into that, and I would be that they will take a 20% pay cut to get through. I have keen to have an update today on how we can strengthen never known anything like it. the law so that the small proportion of disreputable I compare that with previous recessions, when employers are not allowed just to ignore civil cases. unemployment shot up and there was tremendous animosity Zero-hours contracts are an important issue that I between employers and employees. This time, despite have been studying. I regret to say this in a Backbench what some Opposition Members say, that has not been business debate, but I sometimes get frustrated by the the case. There has been an understanding, particularly element of humbug from the Labour party. The Labour in the private sector, that, “My God, if we are going to Government had 13 years to address zero-hours contracts get through this we have to roll up our sleeves.” It has but did nothing, so I find it tiresome when vitriol is really worked, because we have 1.4 million new employees poured on us and the coalition is accused of ignoring after such a shocking recession, and we are not out of the issue, as if the previous Government had a good the woods yet. I think that should be lauded to the skies. record. They did not. Furthermore, more than 20,000 It is absolutely magnificent. I think that it has worked members of staff working for Labour councils are on only because both parties have worked together. zero-hours contracts. This is a challenge for both sides. My personal view is that we need much more robust Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): research to identify the scale of the problem. I can see Will my hon. Friend give way? how unscrupulous employers are abusing zero-hours contracts, but I know from my own experience of talking Stephen Lloyd: Where? to people who work in the university sector and the NHS that some of them like those contracts. Mr Stuart: Behind you. I have had meetings with the Secretary of State about this, and my personal request to the Minister is that we Stephen Lloyd: Yes, of course. conduct some really robust research involving consultation with all sides, including the trade unions and employers, Mr Stuart: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to so that we can make an informed decision. A much highlight the 1.4 million new private sector jobs. The more robust code of practice would certainly be helpful. credit for that should go to the people who displayed However, the most important thing is that this is about solidarity, because they put their immediate, personal jobs, and on that the coalition is delivering. interests behind the group interest. That is one of the reasons that so many people have stayed out of the dole Several hon. Members rose— queues, contrary to what all the experts and economists predicted. It is a success, and it is enormously to the Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. I credit of those people. What we need to do now is am going to reduce the time limit for Back-Bench improve our skills and earn more money so that everybody contributions again, to six minutes. We are not making can have a decent wage. quite enough progress, and the debate will lapse at 5 o’clock. Stephen Lloyd: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. That is precisely my point. It has been an 4.11 pm exceptional example of community work between Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): employees and employers. I should also explain that I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for unfortunately I have hearing only in my right ear, which Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) on securing is why I was not sure where the intervention was coming this long overdue debate. Parliamentary protocol is from. such that I could not participate in the debate over the From the Liberal Democrat perspective in the coalition, past three days, but I have observed the unedifying the issue of employment rights is important issue because spectacle of the coalition Government acting out of it is about fairness. Although it is incredibly important sheer arrogance in forcing through legislation that will to me, as a Lib Dem, that employees have as many impinge on millions of workers. That was somewhat sensible rights as possible, I want flexibility. I recognise disappointing. It was equally unedifying to observe the that the vast majority of employers are good employers, pigeon carriers for the coalition Government forcing and that the vast majority of employees are hard working through the legislation, and refusing to answer questions and dedicated. The challenge with regulation is how to about its impact on workers. My hon. Friend the Member make it flexible while at the same time preventing for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) asked perfectly honest grotesque employers. questions of the pigeon carriers of the coalition I have a good example that I have addressed to the Government, but it was extremely difficult to get any Minister. As she knows, one of the campaigns I have answers. I do not think that I have much influence with been working hard on, both personally and as chair of the Labour leadership, but in the unlikely event of the all-party group on Citizens Advice, relates to something Labour not gaining an overall majority at the next I discovered in my constituency and later discovered election, I sincerely hope that we can resist any temptation was true nationally. Many employees, some of them to go into a coalition with the Liberals, having seen very vulnerable people, go to an employment tribunal what they have done this week. for unfair dismissal or non-payment of wages. The Earlier this year, several colleagues and I visited employer might lose, but the vulnerable employee never Azerbaijan to talk to trade unionists there. Azerbaijan gets any money because the employer either does not is not exactly the most democratic place in the world, 1257 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1258 but to our horror we discovered that the trade unions In my early days—before I came into this place and there enjoyed better relationships and more employment when I worked for a living—I was with Thales, a well- rights than we do here in the UK. Azerbaijan is a young respected company.Last week, I was at its 125th anniversary democracy and we are the oldest, yet we are still fighting and the Thales management went out of their way to for employment rights. That, too, was somewhat tell people of the positive role that trade unions have disappointing. played in that company, which has survived for 125 years. I suggest to those who try to paint the trade unions as demons to listen to the Thaleses of this world, because Richard Harrington: Will the hon. Gentleman give trade unions are a positive force for good. way? 4.17 pm Jim Sheridan: No, I am sorry, there is not enough Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): I pay tribute time. to Labour Members, particularly the hon. Member for I am chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), who highlighted occupational safety and health, and I see the legislation examples of employer malpractice. They raise powerful that is being proposed as somewhat disappointing. Every issues that we need to address. week at Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister The points that I shall make will not belittle those and the Leader of the Opposition quite rightly give issues, nor shall I suggest that we should not take better recognition to our armed forces personnel, but let us enforcement action on such malpractice, but I want to put this in perspective. Last year, there were 44 tragic make the case for the Government, who for the whole of fatalities among our armed forces personnel in Afghanistan, this Parliament are reviewing employment law. They are but there were 49 fatalities in the UK construction considering that framework for two big reasons, the industry. We rightly place an emphasis on our armed first of which is jobs. The Government have been proven forces, but we do not pay enough attention to those right that consideration of employment law—they are people who lose their lives in the construction industry, considering other parts of the legal system as well—can because their deaths do not create sexy headlines. lead to the creation of jobs—1.4 million, as we heard Fatalities are not the only issue in the construction earlier. The second reason is that when we poll employers industry that we should be concerned about. There in Britain or talk to them about what is causing them are 5,000 cases of occupational cancer every year. issues in their business, they say that it is employment Mesothelioma is still a terrible issue. Asbestos is still a law. danger in our schools, with more than 140 teachers Generally, employers do not want to take away workers’ dying from mesothelioma in the past 10 years—not to rights, and often problems arise because of bureaucracy, mention the number of janitors, administrative staff perhaps when they want to make people redundant and cleaners. Despite this, employment rights are still when the work relationship has broken down. The being trampled on by this coalition Government. Government have rightly decided to consider employment Much has been said about zero-hours contracts and law from the perspective of employers in much more about blacklisting—the arguments have all been detail. rehearsed—but I want to take colleagues back to the Some initiatives have been referred to, such as that to tragic Piper Alpha incident, which happened because of make things easier if the relationship between employee the lack of safety on the oil rigs. The major oil companies and employer breaks down. It is a modest proposal on had made it clear that they were not going to invite settlement agreements, which are a simplified form of trade unions on to the oil rigs, and it was not until after compromise agreements, which developed under Labour. Piper Alpha that the trade unions won the recognition Employers will have two years to make a decision on a on the oil rigs that they had fought for. It is no coincidence, worker, which will give them the confidence to take notwithstanding the tragic Puma accident a couple of somebody on and allow them to end a relationship if it weeks ago, that safety standards went up when the is not working out. As my hon. Friend the Member for unions got recognition on the oil rigs. Watford (Richard Harrington) said, an employer would not bring a relationship to an end unless there was a real I am a great believer in manufacturing, which we problem. Employers want good workers and will look need, as we cannot survive by cutting each other’s hair. after them. This country’s manufacturing base—I am talking about this Government and the previous Government—is in Stephen Lloyd: Does my hon. Friend agree that one such a state because manufacturing companies could challenge in countries such as Italy, or even France, is decide on a whim to close a factory, or whatever it may the fact that it is so expensive to hire new people that the be, and there was nothing the workers could do. economy is locked down and sclerotic? That means that For me, there is nothing more frustrating than people it is almost impossible for young people to get a job. coming to my surgery and saying, “I worked for a company for 25 years and I’ve just been told I’m being Julian Smith: My hon. Friend is right: we are the envy sacked. They are transferring my job to the Czech of most countries in terms of our employment law. The Republic to exploit cheap labour.” My hon. Friends and shareholder initiative has received a lot of criticism but I get frustrated and angry about not being able to do it is just another attempt to make it easier for new, anything to help those workers. The free marketeers, as smaller, principally technical companies to take people they call themselves, believe that the market will deliver on, give them a shareholding, maintain their fundamental the jobs. It is delivering the jobs—jobs with zero-hours rights but provide a bit of flexibility. It is not just about contracts, part-time jobs and jobs for the self-employed. making things easier for employers, however, as the It is important that we try to get a grip of the issue. Government have a good track record on employees. 1259 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1260

[Julian Smith] 4.23 pm Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op): I thank the We have introduced the commitment to flexible working Backbench Business Committee for scheduling time for and are bringing forward shared maternity and paternity this important debate. It is a particular pleasure to leave. Labour Members talk about a high level of pay, follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham but the Government have introduced shareholder votes West and Royton (Mr Meacher), who set out many for executive pay, and we are pushing forward with important issues, as well as other colleagues who highlighted numbers of women on boards. We are reviewing zero-hours some of the issues that I want to speak about. contracts and the minimum wage has risen under this Government. I think we can be proud. The living standards crisis that people are facing is not only an issue of pay and the rising cost of goods, but of security. People now feel less secure and more Mr Graham Stuart: May I take issue with my hon. pressured at work than at any time in the past 20 years, Friend because he missed out the fact that we have also according to the latest UK skills and employment survey. raised the threshold at which someone pays tax? By Our country already has the third most liberal labour rising to £10,000, that threshold will make a huge market in the OECD, but since taking office the coalition difference to people on low earnings, creating an incentive has shown real determination to undermine people’s to work. protections at work, making it easier to fire people but not easier to hire people. In effect, they have heaped further insecurity on working people. I shall speak Julian Smith: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. today about two aspects of that insecure working that I There is a long list, and I think we can be proud. These have campaigned on before and since my election to the are modest changes but they are intended to help both House—the rise in the use of zero-hours contracts and employer and employee. the use of employment agencies. I do not agree that unions cannot be helpful in Zero-hours employment is now widespread in many relationships between employers and employees, and I sectors of the economy, and it is especially prevalent in think they play an important role, particularly in bigger areas of higher unemployment, where the lowest-paid companies. I believe, however, that the current tactic of and most vulnerable workers in Britain exist without the unions on the relationship between employee and knowing when the next payday might come. That is employer is barking mad, and I will give two examples certainly the case in my constituency. People on zero-hours of that. First, a gentleman in a village in my constituency contracts tell me about waiting for a call or turning up runs a big company. He outsourced some of his work, to the workplace day after day, only to find there is no and that outsource company laid off some staff. That work, but their contracts make it difficult to find alternative gentleman and his family have been harassed by a employment or to claim jobseeker’s allowance. I have particular union for months, with people coming on heard examples of people making child care arrangements coaches to invade the village and demonstrate against a or paying for transport to work and then waiting for decision for which he was not responsible, using a tactic hours before being told that they are not needed. Other that the union has imported from America. people have told me that because of zero-hours contracts they are unable to get a bank overdraft, a mortgage or The second example is a piece of information sent to, car finance. For those people who are getting regular I think, Unite members over the past few weeks, suggesting work on a zero-hours contract, they know that it could that they see the employer as an opponent and someone end at a moment’s notice and they could be left without with whom they should be deliberately having a fight. sick or holiday pay. That is what upsets me most about the way that the In an exchange with me over the summer, the unions are looking at the issue. I have attended most Office for National Statistics has confirmed that debates on employment law since becoming a Member later this year it will start asking about zero-hours of Parliament, and the fact that so many Labour Members employment in its regular surveys. Everyone recognises take the view of the unions, as in the examples I have that its estimate of 250,000 people on such contracts is given, means that they are not taking an objective view well wide of the mark. We know that people working in of the importance of employment law. The shadow McDonald’s, Burger King, JD Wetherspoon, Sports Minister has employed people and knows full well that Direct, Cineworld and Boots are on such contracts, as these reforms are the right way forward, but for whatever well as 307,000 workers in the care system, according to reason, he is blinkered by other constraints. the Government’s own figures. We know that the NHS In conclusion, the employment law world is changing, has almost 100,000 workers on zero-hours contracts, and changing fast. This debate on zero-hours contracts which the BMA has described as a real risk to patient will be writ large in years to come, and there will be safety. more part-time working, more multiple employment I fully accept that for some people casual contracts and working from home, and probably much more can work, such as the students who work as lifeguards self-employment and entrepreneurship. It will be a wholly at my local swimming pool, or the retained firefighter different way, and if Labour Members do not look at who also works occasionally for the Co-operative Funeral that trend and look five or 10 years ahead, they will fail Service. If casual contracts are fair, reciprocal and to represent workers and those people they have often appropriate, they can have a place in the labour market. represented so well through the unions, as in the cases But there is a clear distinction between such employment we heard earlier. I urge them to consider the Government’s and the way in which millions are now being exploited reforms, support them and see them in the light of on zero-hours contracts. It is important that we draw incremental change, rather than as a radical return to a the distinction, and there are three main practices that past that possibly never existed. must stop. 1261 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1262

The first is requiring an employee to be available for There are a wide range of issues. The use of the work when no work is guaranteed. The second is requiring Swedish derogation, a giant loophole that must be an employee to sign an exclusive contract when no work addressed, has been mentioned. I am working locally to is guaranteed, so they cannot take work elsewhere, and implement a code of practice. We must get much better the third is when employees are working regular hours at enforcement. I have also introduced a private Member’s over a sustained period but their contract does not Bill to extend the powers of the Gangmasters Licensing reflect that. I have introduced a private Member’s Bill to Authority to all sectors of the economy—not to license, address the issues with zero-hours contracts, and I will necessarily, in all sectors of the economy, but to be able set out how I hope we can give effect to changes that to enforce the law in all sectors of the economy. The would protect people in such circumstances. abuses are widespread, and I hope to have more time on another occasion to speak about some of the issues. Richard Harrington: Given the hon. Gentleman’s views on zero-hours contracts, will he condemn the Labour Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. councils mentioned by the hon. Member for Eastbourne The last two speakers will have a time limit of five (Stephen Lloyd), who have so many employees on zero- minutes each in order that we can hear the wind-ups. hours contracts? Andy Sawford: Corby borough council employs some 4.31 pm people as lifeguards in the local swimming pool on Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): I congratulate casual contracts that are not exclusive and do not the Backbench Business Committee and my right hon. require people to attend for work or else breach the Friend the Member for Oldham West and Royton contract. Those are clearly casual employment. Any (Mr Meacher) on securing the debate. I want to concentrate council, of whatever stripe, that uses such contracts on two examples of employment contracts that challenge must do so in a way that is fair and reciprocal. I urge employment rights. Many people who are desperate for Labour councils to give a lead in that, and they are work sign such contracts, only to find later that they doing so. They are looking at the care sector, for example, have signed a document that allows the employer to opt where insecure employment has a real impact on the out of the natural progression to equal employment quality of care, as well as on the employees, to address conditions. I have been told of employment agencies the issue. I applaud them for that and think that the using and developing ways to absorb into their contracts Conservatives’ attempts to use it as a smokescreen is the list of “reset to zero” the qualifying period for equal unhelpful in such an important debate. pay and conditions. I speak, of course, of zero-hours I urge companies not to wait for 2015, when my right and pay between assignments contracts. hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition has promised Austerity has been the spur that some unscrupulous to take clear action on this. That is why I met McDonald’s employers have used to introduce erosion of employment and talked about employment in its business. This week rights, as evidenced by the increasing frequency of I also met the managing director of Starbucks, and I zero-hours contracts. The zero-hours contract offers no have talked to employers across my constituency and to guaranteed work. As part of the general erosion of councils about care workers. I want them to take action terms and conditions of employees, employers have now, because that would be good for their reputation increasingly been turning to the likes of zero-hours and for retaining a motivated, loyal and trained work contracts. Under such contracts, an individual typically force. I am pleased that companies such as Tesco, Asda undertakes to be available for work, but the employer and Morrisons—whose human resources director will does not undertake to provide any work, and only pays lead a review of this issue for the Opposition—are for the hours worked. The zero-hours contract is now already showing that such contracts are not necessary widely used, and a survey by the industrial relations for a successful business. service indicates that 23% of employers now include The issue of temporary workers working through zero-hours contracts as one of their employment options. employment agencies is a particular concern in Corby The Office for National Statistics also found a major and east Northamptonshire. For historic reasons, we surge in zero-hours contracts during 2012. have a large proportion of jobs through employment agencies, with a disproportionately large number of Zero-hours contracts quite simply undermine agencies operating in the town. Rogue agencies that do employment rights. The variability of earnings throws not adhere to the basic framework of legislation to into doubt an individual’s eligibility to claim various protect workers are a particular problem. forms of benefit. The employment rights of those employed on zero-hours contracts pivot on whether the contract With great regret, I read recently that the Government imposes “mutuality of obligation” between employer intend to abolish the employment agency standards and employee. To gain such rights, it is crucial for inspectorate, which plays an incredibly important role. I employees to prove that the contract constitutes an was pleased that the Minister agreed that it could employment relationship—not as easy as it sounds, but undertake inspections in my constituency. It found more it has been successful, and it is why we see a move to than 70 separate breaches of the law, and also found, find an even more flexible contract option, which offers working with HMRC, £100,000 owing to local workers a loophole even to avoid the commitments of zero-hours because of minimum wage issues. My constituent, Irene contracts. That is why we witness the growth in pay Hamilton, said: between assignments. “I am so glad I never have to go to work for an agency now that I am retired…I felt that I was invisible…Don’t be sick, don’t go As we have heard, the pay between assignments contract on holiday, no family or funeral problems are expected of agency is sometimes referred to as the Swedish derogation. workers. It was soul destroying.” Someone with experience of the Swedish derogation Her example is typical of so many people in my recently commented in HR Magazine that he was advised constituency. that 1263 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1264

[Mr Iain McKenzie] The Government are keen on international comparisons and, according to the OECD, out of the 36 richest “if they ask me to go to an assignment 5 hours away from my countries, the UK has one of the lowest levels of worker home for minimum wage with no expenses and I refuse”, protection, beaten only by America and Canada. That his contract would expire and he would have to start is not a record to be proud of. The Prime Minister has again with no direct employment in this country. He said that his proposals will make it easier to hire people, said that indicates how bad employment rights have got but we are not that stupid; we all know that this in this country. Government’s proposals actually make it easier to The TUC has lodged a formal complaint with the fire people. He seems to believe that, with 2.7 million European Commission against the UK Government for unemployed, including 1 million young people, making failing to implement the temporary agency workers it easier to sack people will increase growth. With directive properly, which has led to tens of thousands of reasoning like that, it is no wonder that we have never agency workers being paid less—up to £135 a week met any of the Chancellor’s growth figures. less—than permanent staff for doing the same job, Government Members seem to hold the view that it is despite EU rules saying that they are entitled to equal difficult to sack people, but as a former trade union pay. The Government are yet again failing to protect official who frequently had to tell members that they British workers from exploitation. had no case—using the mantra, “The law is as it is, not aswe’dlikeittobe″—I can tell them that it is already Pay between assignments contracts can often be even shamefully easy to dismiss workers. The Government’s worse than the much-criticised zero hours contracts. change to the qualifying period for unfair dismissal The whole point of the 2011 agency regulations was to claims means that almost 60% of all employees under bring the principle of equal treatment, including equal the age of 24, 1.4 million part-time workers, and 32% of pay for agency employees, into UK law. However, the all black and minority ethnic employees are not protected. introduction of these contracts means that many agency workers are signing away their rights to equal pay, Having attempted to protect the jobs of such employees, which for most people is the most important element of I can attest to how easy it is for them to be sacked. Like the regulations. The madness here is that, compared colleagues in the House, I can tell some real horror with those on pay between assignments contracts, those stories, such as the senior railway manager who was on zero hours contracts are actually better off, because accused of gross misconduct. We managed to prove they qualify for equal pay after 12 weeks—although that he was not guilty of any of the charges, but a that does not always necessarily follow. month later he was given “the envelope”—the pay-off, which he had no alternative but to accept. Workers in a I am proud that Labour introduced the minimum company in my constituency are about to be left in wage, one of our greatest achievements in government. limbo: none of the companies involved in a TUPE In its last budget, my Inverclyde Labour council introduced transfer was prepared to take responsibility for them, the living wage. We spent most of the 19th and 20th leaving them with no wages, no redundancy payment centuries trying to build up employment rights; let us and unable to claim benefit. I could go on. There is a not spend the 21st century dismantling them. theme: power remains firmly in the hands of the employer. Our employment protection is already weak and is 4.36 pm being weakened further. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): I start by congratulating Government Members have made various other my right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and suggestions to weaken employment protection, including Royton (Mr Meacher) and my hon. Friend the Member removing small firms from legislation. As about 44% of for Corby (Andy Sawford) on securing this debate. I am private sector employment is in SMEs, that would create a proud trade unionist—in fact, I am a member of two a second-class citizen at work and make it harder for trade unions—so I am pleased to speak in the debate. I small firms to recruit good staff. get angry about the myths that Government Members There have been rumblings about equality legislation, often cite. Listening to today’s debate, and particularly but as the Fawcett Society stated: to the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian “Cutting red tape can all too easily mean scaling back on Smith), people would think that everything in the garden equality. Many of the regulations being revised—such as protections is absolutely rosy and what the Government are doing from unfair dismissal—have been vital in shoring up women’s for employees is brilliant. That is not the world I and my security in the workplace.” constituents live in. Good employers are not frightened by trade unions and employment rights. The best employers welcome The economy has not experienced a double-dip recession trade unions as partners and have higher than minimum and sluggish growth, and only just avoided a triple-dip standards of employment rights, but on a zero-hours recession because of the UK’s employment rights, but contract people cannot get a mortgage, buy a car, buy a because the Government cut spending too far and too new fridge or even feed their children. Good employment fast, hitting business confidence and choking off growth. practice is good for the economy. It promotes confidence They do not seem to understand that removing the and growth. The Government should be promoting rights of workers only increases job insecurity, harms good practice, not smashing basic rights. work force morale and productivity and lowers consumer confidence, making things worse, not better. Only 6% of small and medium-sized enterprises think that excess 4.40 pm regulation—all regulation, not just that on employment Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): I congratulate rights—is a barrier to growth and harms their business, my right hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West and but there is consensus that the real problems are a Royton (Mr Meacher) on his speech, which was compelling. depressed economy and difficulty with bank lending. He made a wonderful contribution. He was right to talk 1265 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1266 about the Government taking a sledgehammer to workers’ I would like to pick up something that the hon. rights and to raise the issue of the low-wage, low-skill Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) said. He and low-productivity economy that the Government painted a picture of a utopian economy and said that seem to want to create. the biggest issue for employers is employment law. I welcome the opportunity to debate the Government’s Actually, the statistics and analysis do not reflect that. approach to employment rights. However, it is not the It is worth noting that a survey of SMEs carried out by first time we have done so in the House and it will not the Government’s very own Department for Business, be the last. Month after month, I and my colleagues Innovation and Skills earlier this year showed that, have stood in this Chamber and in Committee rooms in while 7% of businesses thought that regulation was a the House to oppose policy after policy from this barrier to business success, 32% cited the economic Government, who are seeking to remove the rights of downturn as the main issue. people at work. The list is extensive. I will give just a few Let us consider that in a day-to-day business. I have examples to highlight where we are: the Government’s run my own businesses. Government Members continually Beecroft by the back door “compensated no-fault dismissal” bob up and use the term “unions” in this place as proposals; what has been described as the Chancellor’s though it was like saying “Macbeth” in the theatre. bonkers “shares for rights” policy; the increase in the Those having experience of running their own business qualification period for unfair dismissal; the introduction know that happy, healthy employees who arrive at work of employment tribunal fees; the disgraceful abolition every day being made to feel as if they have a real stake of the Agricultural Wages Board without any debate in in the business, rather than being treated like cogs in a the House; changes to the employment tribunal wheel, make far more productive employees. That has compensatory awards; the removal of civil liability in been highlighted by evidence recently produced by the health and safety; and the cutting in half of the collective CBI and the Chartered Institute of Personnel and redundancy consultation period. Just yesterday, we debated Development. at great length part 3 of the gagging Bill, which would take trade union membership to a different level. All Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East that is creating insecurity in the workplace. Cleveland) (Lab): The north-east as a region is more At every opportunity since 2010, Ministers have attacked productive than other regions, and it is no coincidence the rights of people at work. As many Members have that it has the highest trade union membership in said, including my hon. Friend the Member for Corby England and Wales. (Andy Sawford), the Government have made it easier to fire workers, rather than hire them. It is notable that it Ian Murray: My hon. Friend is a committed trade has been Lib Dem Minister after Lib Dem Minister unionist and is committed to the north-east. He highlights who has been doing the dirty work for the Government an important point. Where there is a partnership between in this area. That is having a significant effect on trade unions and employers, it is possible to have a opinion across the country. A recent poll showed that really productive work force, which benefits everyone. 72% of British workers feel that employers have more Every successful industry in the country has had that power than employees. As YouGov reported yesterday, powerful and strong relationship between trade unions the number of people feeling insecure at work has and employers. almost doubled in the past three years from 6.5 million We have talked a lot this afternoon about zero-hours to 12 million—all on this Government’s watch. contracts. The CIPD released figures just last month The Government’s attitude to the workplace is that showing that up to 1 million people were on such employers need more power relative to workers, that the contracts. I understand the hon. Member for Eastbourne rights of people at work are a barrier to growth and (Stephen Lloyd) wanting to highlight the fact that zero- jobs, and that protection in the workplace holds back hours contracts have been around for a long time. the economy—and all in the name of economic growth. Indeed they have, but the issue is the explosion in the Taking employee rights and health and safety back to number of such contracts in the past few years and their Victorian times will not create economic growth. This exploitation. They work for some people, and that is insecurity causes great instability for workers. They are something that we have tried to deal with by looking at already earning £1,500 less a year on average than they the ways to resolve some of the issues. But Ministers were in 2010. The former Employment Relations Minister, have not done enough in this area. They have instigated now Minister of State, Department of Health, the hon. a half-hearted investigation while continuing a laser-like Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb), had it focus on removing people’s rights at work—an approach exactly right when he said that there was an inextricable now synonymous with the report produced by Adrian link between job security and consumer confidence and Beecroft. This timid response is emphasised by the fact that policies that would damage job security would be that not one Conservative Member of Parliament attended “crazy”. He was absolutely correct. Unfortunately, he the recent Westminster Hall debate on zero-hours contracts. made those comments before he got the employment We recognise the flexibility of zero-hours contracts, brief and systematically set about making some people but we have to deal with exploitation on a cross-party less secure at work. basis because everyone in the House realises that it is a The Government’s approach runs contrary to all the problem. We welcome the steps set out by the Leader of evidence, much of which we have heard in the debate. the Opposition just last week. My hon. Friend the Member for Corby and others I was struck by some of the issues raised by hon. mentioned the OECD. We must remember that before Members in the debate. My hon. Friend the Member any of these changes were made, Britain’s employment for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) always law regime was the third most liberal in the world, just speaks so wonderfully on these issues. He highlighted behind only the USA and Canada. problems in some of the industries around the country 1267 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1268

[Ian Murray] employers to be able to create jobs and manage their work forces effectively.We can help to do this by minimising in terms of workers’ rights. It is about dealing with the the burden of regulation so that employers are free to abuses. This is not about setting one group of people off create jobs and hire new staff. At the heart of our against another, setting employers off against employees approach is a belief that employers and individuals are or setting trade unions off against anyone else. It is in the best position to decide what works for them. The the responsibility of the Government, politicians and role of Government is to provide the right framework constituency Members of Parliament to deal with those to facilitate that, not to dictate outcomes through heavy abuses. regulatory approaches. Crucially, we need to ensure that My hon. Friend the Member for Paisley and people are treated fairly at work and that employers can Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan) mentioned the Lib compete on a level playing field without being undercut Dems’ refusing to stand up to the abuse of zero-hours by unscrupulous employers who break the law and contracts and said that we did not spend enough time exploit their staff. We therefore launched a comprehensive, dealing with cases of people who are killed at work. Parliament-long employment law review to tackle the perceptions and the reality of employment law burdens Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Will the hon. and to implement our strategy in practice. Gentleman give way? The Government have introduced a range of different measures that have been mentioned by hon. Members. I Ian Murray: I am struggling for time I am afraid. want to talk about two that have not had a huge It surely cannot be right that people go to work to amount of focus in this debate but are radical and earn a living for their families and do not return home. important. My hon. Friend the Member for Skipton We do not concentrate enough on such issues. and Ripon (Julian Smith) mentioned the proposals on The hon. Member for Eastbourne mentioned zero-hours shared parental leave. That is a radical reform to contracts. He was right to do so, and I hope that he will employment law allowing mums and dads to choose join us in trying to deal with the issue. He cares passionately how they share the time off after their baby is born. about it, and I hope that we are able to do something on That is good for children, particularly because the a cross-party basis. involvement of dads early on in the process can help My hon. Friend the Member for Inverclyde child development. It is good for parents, making it (Mr McKenzie) always speaks well in employment law easier for them to balance their responsibilities with debates. I think it struck the whole House when he said their work. It is also good for employers, who can at the end of his speech that we had spent the 19 and benefit from a more motivated, productive work force, 20th centuries building up rights and we should not with a more flexible system that enables working mums spend the 21st demolishing them. who want to return to work to do so earlier. My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Julie We are also extending the right to request flexible Hilling) is passionate when she speaks about her working that will come in from next April. It has involvement with trade unions, and she is right that the already been available to parents, having been introduced contribution that they make to our communities makes by the previous Government, and it has been a great the economy stronger. We should welcome that rather success, with four in five of the requests made being than attacking it. granted. There are all sorts of reasons why people The signs of the cost of living crisis that faces millions might want to work flexibly, not just because they are across the UK are there for all to see. The weekly shop is parents. Perhaps they have other caring responsibilities. more expensive. Energy bills seem to be rising day to Perhaps they volunteer in their community. Perhaps day. Living expenditure such as travel is becoming more they are older workers nearing the end of their working and more unaffordable. On top of all this there is a life who, rather than working full time one day and not hidden contributor to the cost of living crisis—job at all the next, would like to taper their working as they insecurity compounded time and again by the Government’s ease into retirement. We need to move towards this ideological attack on rights at work. The Government situation being much more the norm than an anomaly. fail to recognise that growing insecurity in a Tory-Lib We have no need to keep our workplaces stuck in the Dem Britain further squeezes people’s living standards 1950s with a culture of presenteeism. Modern technology and hampers economic recovery. has revolutionised the way that we can work, making people much more productive at different times. Indeed, It has been a good debate this afternoon and I hope employers can see the benefits of flexible working too. that Lib Dem Members in particular take heed of some of the issues raised and change their tack on employment Unsurprisingly, I disagree with some Labour Members’ rights. characterisation of what the Government have been doing. Certainly, the right hon. Member for Oldham 4.49 pm West and Royton used some analogies that I would not agree with, but I do agree with many of the things he The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, said. He rightly highlighted the fact that many of the Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson): I congratulate the employment rights enshrined in EU legislation can be right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton very important. He talked about the problems of directors’ (Mr Meacher) on securing this debate. It has been wide pay differentials. There is great agreement in all parts of ranging, with contributions of great interest from Members the House that that situation has become unacceptable, on both sides of the House. particularly where there has been payment for failure. The Government’s vision for the UK’s labour market Where there has been great success with a company is for it to be flexible, effective and fair. We want people growing, employing more people and bringing more to be able to access the type of work that they want and wealth to the country, I do not think people mind 1269 Employment Rights12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Employment Rights 1270 payment being made accordingly, but where there has As my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen not been that success, there should not be unearned Lloyd) said, most employers are good employers. I do large packages. That is why the Government’s proposals not think that anyone in the House would wish to to empower shareholders so that there is much more suggest that that is not the case. We are, therefore, accountability on directors’ pay are important. dealing with a minority of rogue employers who can be The right hon. Gentleman raised an important point unscrupulous. Most employers take their responsibilities about the normalisation of zero-hours contracts, which seriously and want to make sure that they are treating many others also talked about. As the hon. Member for their workers well, not only because they realise the Corby (Andy Sawford) said, these contracts are not business benefits of doing so, but because it is the right inherently bad. They can be applied in an fair and thing to do. It is important to remember that. appropriate way, and people generally have no problem My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness when there is flexibility on both sides and no imbalance (Mr Stuart), who is no longer in his place, intervened a of power in the relationship. Equally, many employers couple of times to point out the great success in the recognise that it would be counterproductive for them, apprenticeship sector. I agree with him about that and as a matter of course, to put all their employers on to how important it is that we have made things easier for zero-hours contracts, because where the employee is, in low-paid workers by cutting their income tax bills, a effect, taking the place of a permanent full-time worker, policy that went straight from the front page of the Lib or even a permanent part-time worker working 20 or so Dem manifesto to the pockets of hard-working people. hours a week, that does not necessarily create the most I am delighted that my hon. Friend and other colleagues positive and productive relationship between the employer are now so supportive of that particular policy. and the employee. Of course, that is why many employers The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John do not routinely have employees on zero-hours contracts. McDonnell) raised a range of specific concerns about The point about normalisation is interesting and the employment issues. We discussed blacklisting yesterday Government have been doing significant work on zero-hours and in previous debates, and the Government will continue contracts. The hon. Gentleman raised some sensible to keep a very close eye on that. I urge Members and points. others to be aware that free and confidential advice is available if people are worried about their employment Andy Sawford: Will the Minister give way? rights. They should get in touch with the pay and work rights helpline, which is available online or on 0800 917 Jo Swinson: I will address some of the hon. Gentleman’s 2368. Anybody can access it, and if they have concerns points before taking his intervention. about national minimum wage payments, such cases The hon. Gentleman discussed exclusivity, which is can be passed to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs one of the issues highlighted in the Government’s work for enforcement action. Indeed, national minimum wage to date. If somebody is not getting guaranteed work on problems are prioritised on that helpline. a contract, there is an inherent sense of injustice in the suggestion that they cannot seek work elsewhere. On My hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Stephen the balance-of-power relationship, can a worker actually Lloyd) has achieved great success in his own work in refuse work, or is it thought that if they do so they will improving the number of apprenticeships. He also raised not be asked to do shifts in future? Does the contract the important issue of employers who do not pay out reflect the employment situation and is the proper the award after losing an employment tribunal. He information available? When they apply for a job, does knows that we have been working on that and we will the employee know that it is a zero-hours contract that hold further discussions, particularly with the Ministry is being offered, or do they think they are applying for a of Justice, on what action to take. permanent job? We have been investigating genuine The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North issues over the summer and we will look at how we can (Jim Sheridan) mentioned the positive role that trade address any abuses. unions play and how they have driven up safety standards on oil rigs. He was right to highlight that and the role Andy Sawford: I simply want to ask what action the they can play in improving workplaces. The hon. Member Government have taken. for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) talked about zero-hours contracts and the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Jo Swinson: I hope the hon. Gentleman will be a little Hilling) echoed many of the points made by the hon. more patient. As I have said, we undertook a review Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North. over the summer and are looking at the information. I Unemployment is now falling. There are 1 million hope he will not have to wait too long before we more apprenticeships and 1.3 million more jobs in the announce the next steps. private sector. That is a good record, but despite this we My hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Richard must avoid complacency and make further improvements Harrington) made an interesting contribution, particularly to create more jobs, so that people can get the work they with regard to his comments about morality, which is want and employers can take on the skilled workers not always a word associated with debates about capitalism they need in order to grow. and employment, but I think it is important. There is a Question put and agreed to. legal framework for minimum rights, but it is fair to point out that we all have additional responsibilities Resolved, to one another as human beings and individuals. That this House has considered employment rights. 1271 12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Colombia 1272

Colombia That was just incredible. Yes, it can confound our scepticism when we see President Santos negotiating Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House with the FARC to find a peaceful end to the conflict, do now adjourn.—(Anne Milton.) but he undoes that good by eradicating any opposition by denouncing trade unionists and civil rights activists 5pm as terrorists. Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): I am grateful to Mr Speaker for granting this Adjournment Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): This is a very debate, which follows on from the point of order that I important issue. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that made exactly two weeks ago. I also point out that today the Colombian Government’s policy of land grabs and is the three-year anniversary of the imprisonment of removing land from the peasant population is further human rights defender, David Rabelo. inflaming the situation in Colombia? While the global community has understandably been focused on the horrific events in Syria, the actions of Robert Flello: The hon. Gentleman is correct that the Government of Colombia sadly continue to go that causes further problems. I know that indigenous unnoticed, despite an escalation in their oppression of people are still having their lands taken. the Colombian people in recent weeks. The politicians, trade unionists, activists and media In letters and meetings, we are asked to believe that commentators that President Santos denounces are not the Colombian Government have changed for the better terrorists, but he knows beyond doubt that it is effectively and that Colombia has a President who wants to end a death sentence to say that they are. Yet still he does it. the war with the guerrillas, bring peace to his country Is it any wonder that I and others are sceptical? and move his nation forward. I welcome and wholeheartedly I will turn my attention to the events of recent weeks. support the peace talks. However, I am disappointed to As a result of the west’s unending drive towards profit see that in recent months, President Santos and his without conscience, the US-Colombia and EU-Colombia Ministers have reverted to the tactics used under former trade agreements have been put in place with very weak President Uribe’s Government of accusing any opposition labour and human rights conditions. Trade agreements groups of being linked to terrorism and brutally repressing already disadvantage poor peasant farmers in Colombia, social protest. Following the public relations campaign so it is not surprising that they have been protesting. It of the past year or so, during which President Santos is estimated that approximately 250,000 peasant farmers has travelled around to meet world leaders, many of us have protested, despite the dangers they know they face. are afraid that the mask has slipped and that we are How have President Santos’s Government responded seeing the real President Santos. in recent weeks? At least 10 people are dead, more than The ambassador to the UK, Mauricio Rodriguez 800 are wounded and 512 people have been arrested, Munera, has tried to convince me that things are getting including 45 children. A curfew was imposed and 50,000 better in Colombia: that one fewer death means progress troops were put on to the streets of the country to crack and that one fewer disappearance is a good thing. down on strike action. The social movements have said Despite the positive rhetoric, more than 250 civil society that this amounts to an undeclared state of siege, with activists have been murdered since President Santos demobilised right-wing paramilitaries used to attack came to power and countless people have been imprisoned demonstrators. However, the peasant farmers have been by the Colombian authorities on the weakest or indeed joined in their protests by health workers and students. non-existent evidence. Questions were raised about the Video evidence shows horrific beatings, torture, systematic Colombian Government’s commitment to justice for vandalism and theft of the few possessions and food victims when we saw the recent military justice reforms, owned by the peasant farmers by the police. Human which led to further impunity for military crimes and rights organisations have catalogued sexual abuse, torture, about which the United Nations, Amnesty International degrading treatment, beatings, indiscriminate use of and Human Rights Watch have raised concerns. tear gas and rubber bullets, and intimidation. As a I believe President Santos when he says that he wants result of this unchecked state violence, the people of to succeed in the peace talks. However, there is a Bogota came out on to the streets in their thousands. contradiction in negotiating with the FARC, which is On 29 August, President Santos made a speech putting on the point of political participation, while at the same the blame on the protesters, and sent in the ESMAD time denouncing trade unionists and civil rights activists riot police. In the same speech, he smeared the Patriotic as terrorists. That does not create a political climate that March movement, knowing full well that it would put is conducive to democracy and peace. I know that there them in danger. This followed his public statements are serious opponents to the Government’s peace process, about the June protest in Catatumbo, which lead to four not least former President Uribe, but instead of appeasing protesters being killed. those extremists, a strong commitment to peace and NIZKOR, a collective of high profile and respected democracy needs to be shown. human rights organisations in Colombia, has catalogued The ambassador and the Colombian Government the appalling behaviour of the riot police. It reported should not be surprised at our scepticism. After all, that ESMAD has been acting in the Boyaca department President Santos was the Secretary of State for Defence as an occupying army that has supplanted civilian under President Uribe. As Defence Secretary, he presided authority and committed systematic, generalised and over the perverse and sickening incentive scheme that indiscriminate violations of human rights and international was designed to reward military personnel for the guerrilla humanitarian law, as well as acts of vandalism and the body count. My scepticism was reinforced when President excessive use of force. The following are just some issues Santos responded to the so-called “false positives”scandal it has reported: indiscriminate shooting of police issue by changing the law to give immunity to military personnel. weapons against the population; sexual abuse of youths 1273 Colombia12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Colombia 1274 by police agents, as well as repeated threats to sexually agricultural workers’ representative I met 18 months abuse women, partners and daughters of the peasants; ago in Putumayo district, whose clothes were found, acts of torture and other mistreatment that involve the symbolically, between two military checkpoints last year— arbitrary use of tear gas in enclosed spaces, including in disappeared and murdered for the crime of representing nurseries with 3 to 6-year-old children inside, as well as peasant farmers. the use of elements projected or applied to the bodies of Huber’s reputation internationally is such that he was the inhabitants; attacks against helpless youths and to be a guest at the TUC conference this week. He is minors, who are taken from the demonstrations and widely respected by Canadian, Irish, UK and US politicians assaulted while alone; the indiscriminate firing of tear and trade unionists. Sadly, he must travel everywhere in gas from helicopters over gatherings of people; the Colombia with a team of bodyguards. Huber is now in arbitrary invasion of homes of peasants and the destruction La Picota prison. According to Mariela Kohon, the of their property; the identification, false accusation, director of Justice for Colombia, persecution and threatening of leaders of the agriculture strike in Boyaca; mass arbitrary arrests of demonstrators; “the prison is intensely overcrowded, prisoners are routinely looting, theft of money and other common crimes denied any medical attention” committed by the security forces while accompanied by at all. Indeed, in November last year, she met a prisoner the investigative police, even in the capital of the department; in this very same prison who had literally carved off a the occupation of institutions protected under international slice from his face to remove a tumour. humanitarian law such as the Pan-American Educational I am glad to see the Minister in his place, but I Institute, the New Bolivarian school and the Paloblanco have been repeatedly disappointed that successive UK school, all in Boyaca; and the use of ambulances for the Governments have seized upon the slightest crumb—real transport of members of ESMAD, the riot police, or illusory—that Colombia has turned its back on which in itself constitutes a violation of international state-backed murder and oppression. Parliamentary answers humanitarian law. show Ministers heralding the peace talks, the national protection unit, land restitution and so on as being John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): It is signs of a better Colombia. We should, of course, exceptionally worrying that there has been an escalation congratulate any effort to improve the situation, but in the targeting of human rights defenders, with 37 Ministers should and must dig a little deeper and judge dying in the first six months of this year. the Government of Colombia on results, not intent—on concrete actions, not words on paper. Protecting trade Robert Flello: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is unionists because the Inter-American court has ordered that escalation that led me to secure the debate. it, while at the same time accusing the same people of being terrorists is not coherent. Neither is returning On 28 August, NIZKOR reported that in addition to land to peasants, while murdering protesting peasants. the previous offences it catalogued, ambulances were Engaging in peace talks while intimidating peace activists being prevented from going into areas where the security is, once again, not a coherent approach. We need to see services had injured, and in some cases killed, inhabitants. civil society more included in the peace process, and It is worried that civilian authorities find themselves victims from all sides given a voice. intimidated or supplanted by curfews, militarisation and the hiding of the identification of riot police and It saddens me to say that our Government have for police. I welcome the negotiations that are now taking too long too naïvely accepted the word of the Colombian place between the strikers and the Government, but it Government as fact. That can be seen in their welcoming took 21 days, many deaths and the arrest of many the announcement that there will be no more impunity activists to lead to them. for military personnel at exactly the time as the Colombian Let me turn now to the arrest of the deputy president law granting such impunity was changed. No wonder of the agricultural workers’ union. Huber Ballesteros is our reputation as a bastion of human rights in the a prominent agricultural workers’ union leader. He is world is so poor in Colombia, particularly among those on the executive of the Colombian equivalent of the at the front line of defending human rights. It is shameful TUC, and is a leader of the peaceful, socio-political to think that the average Colombian views the British as Patriotic March movement, which, as I have said, has supporters of the oppressor, not the oppressed. been smeared by President Santos. In the classic, Instead of accepting the sweet words of President tried-and-tested method of the Colombian Government, Santos, I hope our Ministers will now take a tougher Huber has been arrested and is in prison accused of public line, call for civil society’s involvement in the rebellion and financing terrorism. It is the old Colombian peace talks, publicly reject accusations that the trade Government trick of saying that there are incriminating unions and the opposition are linked to the guerrillas, e-mails on laptop computers and using non-credible get our ambassador to visit Huber in his prison cell in witness statements, which have been discredited in previous Colombia and speak out about the oppression being failed cases and criticised by the UN. So-called evidence doled out with impunity. that would make a British court wince with shame is If President Santos is genuine about wanting to bring trotted out to justify this false imprisonment. Colombia to peace, he should free Huber Ballesteros. I There is a certain irony in the fact that Huber should have received letters from the ambassador, saying that be accused of funding the FARC guerrillas, when the everything is being done through proper process and current Defence Secretary has previously said that FARC that the Executive cannot intervene. Well, I am afraid funded the patriotic march. One would have thought that history has shown otherwise—that all too often the the Colombian Government could be at least consistent Executive intervenes, and not in a positive way. Now we in their wild accusations! In a way, I am grateful that have an opportunity to intervene positively. If President Huber has not met the same fate as Henry Diaz, the Santos is genuine, he should stop denouncing anyone he 1275 Colombia12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Colombia 1276

[Robert Flello] by allegations of police violence against protesters—of which we have heard from the hon. Gentleman—and disagrees with as a “terrorist”, and he should call off his also of violence by protesters against the police, which slavering, rabid riot police and their accomplices in the have so far cost the lives of eight civilians and one military and police. President Santos would, I am sure, police officer. want the rest of the world to view him as a saviour of We are aware of the recent detention of trade union Colombia and as the man who brought peace to his leader Huber Ballesteros. Our ambassador to Colombia country. He can do that, but not by copying Uribe—he has written to the Colombian prosecutor general to needs to be a man of peace, not an elected dictator. highlight our interest in the case, and to request information on the charges. Staff at our embassy in Bogota are seeking permission to visit Mr Ballesteros in prison. 5.13 pm Although we recognise that the protests have helped The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth to raise the profile of dissatisfaction in the countryside Office (Mr Hugo Swire): Let me first congratulate the and the need for reform, we should not forget the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) impact that the strikes have had on others in Colombia. on securing today’s Adjournment debate, and thank We are concerned by reports of food shortages and other hon. Members for their interventions. I know that dwindling medical supplies, which usually affect the he and others in their places today take a close interest most vulnerable. The loss of income for low-paid workers in the situation in Columbia. I know that the hon. who are unable to get to work through the blockades Gentleman spoke at the “Justice for Colombia” fringe will be difficult for them and their families to manage. event at the TUC conference on trade unions and the The impact of the protests on British companies operating Colombia peace process—on Tuesday, I believe. in Colombia is also of concern. We are working with the Colombian authorities to ensure that the situation is Robert Flello: I was certainly due to speak at that resolved in the most appropriate and timely manner. event with Huber Ballesteros. Unfortunately, the business of the House meant that I could not be let loose from For the reasons that I have given, we welcome the here. efforts to find a peaceful resolution through dialogue. We are encouraged by President Santos’s statement that Mr Swire: Perhaps other Labour Members would there will be an investigation of the recent violence, rather have been detained here than have had to face the deaths of protesters, and any use of excessive force by brothers there. That, of course, was a decision facing the police. them, not the hon. Gentleman. More broadly, human rights remain an integral part The events of recent weeks have highlighted both the of our relationship with Colombia. We support the progress that has been made in Colombia and the efforts of the Colombian Government to address human challenges which—as we have heard—most certainly rights challenges, which we raise regularly with senior remain. The Colombian Government’s announcement Government representatives. When, along with my right of their readiness to begin peace talks with the country’s hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, second largest group, the National Liberation Army, or I met President Santos during his visit to the UK in ELN, alongside the ongoing talks with FARC, brings June, human rights formed an important part of the closer the hope of a sustainable peace for all Colombians agenda. We have a strong and valuable bilateral dialogue after decades of conflict. That is something that I on the issue. believe all of us in the House would wish to support. The 2012 Foreign and Commonwealth Office report At the same time, however, there has been a series on human rights provides a detailed assessment of the of social protests throughout Colombia, highlighting key areas in which the Colombian Government have the divisions between rural and urban areas. The farmers are made progress, and those about which concerns remain. demanding structural reforms that address their needs, Progress that is highlighted includes the peace talks, the promote their competitiveness and secure investment in creation of the national human rights system and the much-needed infrastructure. The Colombian Government work of the national protection unit, which now protects have recognised the existence of genuine grievance in more than 10,000 Colombians. However, the report the country, and have pledged to address its underlying also expresses concern about human rights violations, causes. primarily by illegal armed groups, and about high levels While it is right for us to acknowledge the strides that of impunity. Colombia has made towards reform since President At Colombia’s United Nations universal periodic Santos took office in 2010, it is also right for us to review in April, we recommended that the Colombian continue to express concerns when we have them, and, Government increase their efforts to investigate and as all true friends should, advise when things could be prosecute those responsible for threats or violence against improved. The ongoing protests throughout Colombia human rights defenders, trade unionists, community remain a particular cause of concern. The Foreign and leaders and journalists. We also recommended that Commonwealth Office’s permanent under-secretary raised Colombia ensure that its reformed military justice system specific concerns about the violent incidents taking is fully compliant with international human rights law, place during protests in the Catatumbo region with the and that all allegations of human rights abuses by Colombian Defence Minister during his visit to the military personnel are investigated promptly and effectively. United Kingdom in June. Also in June, our ambassador The Colombian Government have assured us that this to Colombia met representatives of the peasant association reform will not result in impunity for servicemen. We who were protesting in Catatumbo, as well as senior will press the Government to publish information and Government figures in Bogota. We also remain concerned statistics on their efforts in this area regularly. 1277 Colombia12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Colombia 1278

Robert Flello: I am listening carefully to the Minister’s action plan on business and human rights, launched by response. He will be interested to know that following my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary on 4 September, the death of 3,500 men who, as I mentioned in my sends a clear message to British firms about the standards speech, were persuaded to go to remote parts of Colombia expected of them overseas. In May, we part-funded as a sham work opportunity and then killed by the a major event in Colombia on implementing the UN army in order to claim the rewards under this sickening guiding principles on business and human rights, and scheme, not a single person has yet been held responsible. we are now working with the Colombian Government as they create a national strategy of their own. Mr Swire: The Government have assured us that Once again, I thank the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent there will be no impunity for servicemen. I raised this South for securing today’s debate— with the deputy Defence Minister, Jorge Bedoya, during his visit to the UK in March and we will continue to John McDonnell: Before the Minister sums up, may I press the case. ask him one specific question? On 14 September it will The UK is fully engaged on a range of human rights be the third anniversary of the imprisonment of David issues on the ground. Our embassy works with local Ravelo Crespo. Will the Minister, on behalf of the NGOs and the Colombian Government on a number of Government, raise this case again, ensure that we are projects, whose aims have ranged from increasing access expressing our concern about this continued imprisonment to protection measures for human rights defenders to of a human rights defender, and perhaps seek access to raising awareness of the UN guiding principles on the prison? business and human rights. Our embassy in Bogota will support a project to analyse risks around next year’s Mr Swire: I will certainly convey the hon. Gentleman’s parliamentary and presidential elections and to increase concerns to the Colombian ambassador here in London transparency. and ensure that our ambassador in Bogota does the Our engagement with Colombia on these issues forms same. part of a rich and diverse bilateral relationship— I thank the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South once again for securing the debate. Hon. Members have Jim Shannon: On the elections, is the Minister aware highlighted many important points and I fully recognise of any independent observers who will be monitoring the concerns raised. All in the garden is not rosy. The the elections to ensure that they are free, democratic Government are not blindly supportive of everything and without restrictions? being done by the Government in Bogota—[Interruption.] That might be the perception, but the truth is that we Mr Swire: My default position on elections, wherever are a critical friend and we believe that President Santos they are, is that there should be international observers. is doing an incredibly difficult job. The end goal, which In my role as Commonwealth Minister and Minister must be a peaceful negotiation and settlement with the with responsibility for Latin America, Asia and south-east FARC and other groups, is something that we believe Asia, I am constantly arguing that where there are will radically transform the lives of everybody in that questions of transparency, people who are respected country, wherever and at whatever level they live. should be invited from the international community to After almost half a century of conflict, Colombia has observe elections. If there is nothing to hide, all that made great strides in the last three years towards the does is validate the elections. So I would suggest to goal of a prosperous nation free of armed conflict. I anyone that they invite in election observers. It is a good hope that hon. Members will recognise that sometimes, rule. rather than just seeing the glass half empty. Of course Colombia is an increasingly important commercial there is still more to do; how could there not be, given partner, offering real opportunities for British companies. what the country has suffered over the years? In order We are working with UK industry and the Colombian to achieve greater progress, Colombia must continue to Government to ensure that British businesses are in a address the legacy of an incredibly difficult and tragic strong position to win contracts. We make no apology past and tackle the myriad and difficult challenges it for that at all. Unlike the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent still faces. South, we regard trade agreements, such as the EU-Andean This Government will remain a constructive, supportive free trade agreement with Colombia and Peru, as important and critical partner, committed to supporting reform for economic growth and prosperity in developed and moves under President Santos in order to see a developing developing countries. I believe that these free trade and prosperous Colombia where the human rights of agreements will eventually benefit all the people, including all people are respected and where all people can live in those living in the most remote areas, the farmers and safety, not in fear of their lives, and enjoy the prosperity so on. It takes a little time and it is painful, but that is that I believe is owed to them and that, as a result of where we disagree philosophically about free trade. President Santos’s reforms, will eventually trickle down The UK pushed hard for a legally binding human to them. rights clause in the agreement, which is consistent with Question put and agreed to. our policy to have a frank dialogue with Colombia and Peru on human rights. We strongly encourage British companies to respect human rights in places where 5.26 pm they do business. That applies internationally. The UK’s House adjourned.

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manufacturing? That has affected things. He is absolutely Westminster Hall right that getting through to small and medium-sized enterprises is what UKTI finds most difficult. Thursday 12 September 2013 Daniel Kawczynski: Absolutely. I have agreed to meet with the hon. Gentleman to discuss those points further. SMEs will be critical in the renaissance of exports that [MR in the Chair] we hope to achieve, and a little later in my speech, I will explain how they must play their part. I will not rest in BACKBENCH BUSINESS probing the Government until we have achieved the position of fifth largest exporter in the world. I do not UK Trade & Investment think that that is an unrealistic target. Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) be now adjourned.—(Nicky Morgan.) (Lab): I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, whom I thank for the work that he has done in the field and 1.30 pm particularly for obtaining this debate. I rise because I have received a letter from a constituent who is concerned Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): about the arms trade. To summarise her view, she wants Thank you, Mr Betts, for calling me in this important much more transparency. Is that a point that he considered debate on UK Trade & Investment and British exports. when preparing what appears to be an impressive We spend a great deal of time in Parliament debating document? and having robust political exchanges about how to spend taxpayers’ money, yet we seem to spend very little Daniel Kawczynski: This debate and the report focus time considering how to create greater wealth for this predominantly on the general export picture, of which country. It is a great sadness to me that we have had our defence exports are just one aspect. However, if the only about four debates about British exports during right hon. Gentleman stays until the end of my speech, this whole Parliament, and three out of four of them he will hear a reference to arms exports. have been initiated by me. This debate will be the longest of all of them. Very few Members of Parliament have come to take part in this important debate, scrutinise Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): At what UKTI and work on a cross-party basis to discuss how point? that body can become ever more productive in using taxpayers’ money well to ensure value for money and Daniel Kawczynski: The hon. Gentleman will have to make Britain one of the world’s top exporters. wait and see. I have spent the past 12 months writing a report on The report makes three or four specific recommendations, UKTI, which I have sent electronically to all Members which I will highlight to the Minister. One of the most of Parliament. If anybody would like a hard copy, I critical is extra parliamentary scrutiny. In the process of would be grateful if they got in touch with my office. writing this report, we went to see the Select Committee My office and I have spent the past 12 months writing on Business, Innovation and Skills and interviewed its the report and interviewing more than 220 British esteemed Chairman. The Department for Business, companies, which sent representatives to our office in Innovation and Skills is a large Department, and the Parliament from all over the United Kingdom to give us Committee is focused on domestic business and skills their analysis and feedback on UKTI, highlight their matters. During this Parliament—I may be corrected if recommendations and sometimes frustrations with UKTI I am wrong—I understand that the Committee has not and advise how the service could be improved. undertaken any reports specifically scrutinising UKTI. One of the first things that we say in the report is that The Committee and the Department are so large that the United Kingdom is the fifth largest economy in the we need a subsection of the Committee or even, dare I world, yet only the 12th largest exporter. That is an say it, a separate Select Committee. The Minister and others important figure, and I would like the Minister and might say that that is unrealistic, but I am putting the everybody to remember it in the back of their minds. suggestion out for deliberation and consideration. Some This small country of ours has managed to become the form of body or mechanism is needed to perform fifth largest economy in the world. Sometimes we forget ongoing scrutiny of the work and performance of UKTI. what an extraordinary achievement that is. However, we Let us not forget that UKTI receives hundreds of millions must ask ourselves why and how we have become the fifth of pounds in taxpayers’ money. It is vital that all of us largest economy in the world but only the 12th largest in the House play our role in scrutinising how that exporter. Why are we not the fifth largest exporter, money is spent. commensurate with our international standing as a If we have additional scrutiny in the House, we can global economy? be confident in going to the Exchequer and others when things need additional funding and saying, “This is the Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I work that the House of Commons has performed in congratulate the hon. Gentleman on this debate and his scrutinising UKTI, and these are the deficiencies and fantastic campaign. As I am co-chair of the all-party shortfalls that UKTI faces. We need to secure additional group on manufacturing, he will know of my passion money for it.” One mistake that the Government made and interest in the subject. Is not part of the problem at the outset, although I completely understand that that we have shrunk the manufacturing base to the budgets had to be cut across the board, was cutting the point where only 9.5% of people in this country work in communication and advertising budgets for UKTI and 349WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 350WH

[Daniel Kawczynski] the next step. Let us not forget that although UKTI is meant to help companies to export, it is also responsible others a little too much. I am certainly making for attracting direct inward investment into our representations to the Prime Minister to ensure that constituencies. We all know that the vast majority—a additional funding is given to UKTI so that it can massively disproportionate amount—of direct foreign advertise itself in providing service delivery and market inward investment into the United Kingdom goes to itself to SMEs. London. I want to ensure that UKTI on the ground in The hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) Shropshire is working in conjunction with my local rightly referred to SMEs. About 47% of British SMEs council, the local enterprise partnership and the chambers have never heard of UKTI. They do not know anything of commerce directly to identify the top 10 inward about it; they do not understand what services it can investment opportunities for Shropshire. I have therefore provide. How can we expect cutting-edge SMEs, some tasked the UKTI team in the west midlands—Mr Paul of which have the most extraordinary innovation and Noon is the director of UKTI in the west midlands, and ability to export, to use UKTI if they simply do not his staff includes Nicky Griffiths and others—with know what resources exist? I want UKTI to have product getting round the table with Shropshire council, the placements, even in soap operas. There could be a chambers of commerce and the LEP. I have brought storyline where a local UKTI chap comes to see a them all into the same room and said, “What are the company to help it export. I want advertising in national top 10 inward investment opportunities for Shropshire?” newspapers and on the radio and television, so that They are currently working on identifying those everybody starts to talk about export and understand opportunities. that we can use our experiences in other markets to help However, I suspect that the level of activity that I SMEs export. We all remember the “Tell Sid” campaign, have described is not going on in every part of the whether or not we agreed with— country. I have spoken to many Members of Parliament who have told me that they are unaware of any interaction Mr Sheerman: Some of us are trying to forget it! between their local UKTI teams and their local councils and LEPs, yet in Shrewsbury we have taken the bull by Daniel Kawczynski: I thought the hon. Gentleman the horns and ensured that that work is happening. My would say that, but whether or not we agreed with office and I are at this moment writing a case study of privatisation, we all remember the campaign. That is exactly what we are doing, which we will share with the sort of campaign that I want the Government to every Member of the House, so that they can experience proceed with, so that everybody understands and is what we are doing in Shropshire and, we hope, try to cognisant of UKTI, and so that no matter how small a replicate it in their own constituencies. business is, if it has the ability to export, it is given that I pay tribute to Paul Noon and Nicky Griffiths and opportunity. to Mark Pembleton from Shropshire council for their The report also suggests that UKTI should be a co-operation, their sterling work and their enthusiasm single entity. Ideally, I would like it to be an Executive for getting together, with my encouragement, to start agency. At the moment, it is split between the Department working on the top 10 inward investment programmes. for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Foreign The critical point that I want to make to hon. Members Office, so it straddles two Departments. I fear that when is that it is no good a council or a LEP coming up with a body reports to two Departments, there may be a 10 opportunities that are not costed or not properly degree of overlap or too much interference. I would like tabulated in a business format. They must be agreed it to be a single entity and an Executive agency. What is with UKTI staff in such a way that those staff are an Executive agency? According to the definition: happy and confident to sell them overseas, and that is “Executive agencies are part of a government department precisely the work that is being carried out now. To which enables executive functions within government to be carried ensure that we get extra resources for that project, I out by a well-defined business unit with a clear focus on delivering have invited Mr Nick Baird to come to Shrewsbury on specified outputs within a framework of accountability to ministers.” 5 November. The chief executive is coming to spend a I believe that UKTI should be a single entity, with a full day in Shrewsbury, so I hope—I am sure this will be chief executive who is directly accountable to Parliament the case—that everybody completes the work on those for the strategy, focus and organisation of that body. top 10 inward investment opportunities before his visit. At this stage, I pay tribute to Mr Nick Baird, the chief Once they have been identified, I will play my part, as executive of UKTI. I think that when I started the someone who is passionate about exports to the middle report, he must have had a voodoo doll of me in his east and who knows the area. All other Shropshire MPs office into which he stuck pins, because I have been a and everybody else who has a passion for Shrewsbury real pain, but he has always interacted with me, no will also have to play their part in selling the top 10 matter how difficult I have been with him, no matter inward investment opportunities to foreign sovereign how many probing questions I have thrown at him and wealth funds and countries abroad. no matter what barbed comments I have thrown his I would like the Minister to follow very closely what way. He has always been extremely civil, courteous and is happening in the case study in Shrewsbury and to give polite. He is doing great things at UKTI. He is appointing us every support in the run-up to Mr Nick Baird’s visit. more business people to the organisation. However, I It is very important that we can show success—that we want him to have more autonomy and to be accountable can show how UKTI can work with the local councils directly to Parliament. and LEPs on the ground. Following all the research that I had done, I wanted I want UKTI to leave no stone unturned when it to utilise all the passion that I had for exports for my comes to scrutinising every market in the world as a constituency of Shrewsbury, so we have moved on to potential market for British exports. Of course UKTI is 351WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 352WH focused on the large emerging markets of Brazil, India, ship. They did not understand that it is an important, Indonesia and others, but we must never forget the very up-and-coming country of huge strategic importance small markets. I came back yesterday evening from with huge mineral resources. Gibraltar, where I had the great honour of addressing When I went to Tunisia and met with the Anglo-Tunisian thousands of Gibraltarians. Most of Gibraltar came to chamber of commerce, I was notified that only 60 British the square to celebrate national Gibraltar day. I have to companies operate in Tunisia, compared with 1,800 French say that seeing 20,000 people singing “God Save The companies. Tunisia is a close, Mediterranean country Queen” and “Rule, Britannia!” and flying the flag meant on our doorstep. that it was a very emotional day for me. I pay tribute to the Gibraltarian spirit. However, because of my passion Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): I congratulate my for exports, I started to ask a few questions about what hon. Friend on obtaining this important debate. Does is happening with Gibraltar. Of course it is a tiny market; he think that a reason why countries such as France and of course it has a population of only 30,000 people, but Germany do much better in those markets is that their my goodness me, it is more British than we are in many export guarantee schemes—what we now call UK Export aspects and if we cannot sell to the Gibraltarians, who Finance—are far more substantial than ours? For example, can we sell to? the German Hermes scheme protected or guaranteed I spoke to the deputy to the Governor and was told, ¤29.1 billion exports last year, while our equivalent in “Oh no, it’s not my job to relay any opportunities to the UK gave out insurance for something like £4.3 billion. UKTI.”Then when I asked the question of the Governor, Germany provided more than five times the amount of he looked at me with incredulity: “Oh no, of course it’s protection through the Hermes scheme than we provided not my job.” By the time I had got through everybody, I in the UK. The Hermes scheme is profit making—people had found that nobody was relaying business opportunities pay premiums—so it is not a direct pull on the state in Gibraltar to UKTI. Luckily, I have spoken to the purse. Chief Minister, Mr Fabian Picardo, and put him directly in touch with Mr Nick Baird, and they are having a Daniel Kawczynski: I completely agree with my hon. telephone conversation this afternoon to see how UKTI Friend. The middle east and north Africa are my areas can interact directly with the Government of Gibraltar of interest. It is important that the scheme is extended to ensure that the United Kingdom is aware of every to SMEs to encourage them to export to those countries, opportunity, whether in construction, tourism or anything some of which have significant instability, because they else, that exists in Gibraltar. will clearly be taking risks. I look forward to the Minister’s However, the thing that really upset me was that I reply on that point. found out that exports to Gibraltar are run out of Luckily, I studied French at university; I can speak offices in Madrid. I hope that I am not the only one French. We seem to avoid non-English speaking countries who finds that rather ironic, given everything that Spain when trading. We are brilliant at exporting to countries is doing to try to strangle Gibraltar at this time. I said to where people speak English, but anywhere where French the chief executive, Mr Nick Baird, that it is completely is a first language is a vortex for us: “No, no, no. That’s unacceptable. The Foreign Office and UKTI seem to the French-speaking part of north Africa.” That is of have these hubs. They do not have officials on the great concern to me, because we must penetrate those ground in certain countries, but commercial activity in traditional French markets. What unites them all—whether smaller areas is directed from a bigger hub somewhere Tunisia, Algeria or Mauritania—is that they are fed up else. I understand that in certain cases, but it is completely of the German export monopoly and of France repeatedly unacceptable in the case of Gibraltar. The gentleman in using them as dumping grounds for cheap exports, Madrid who is dealing with Gibraltar obviously is very rather than engaging in bilateral economic co-operation focused on the Spanish market, which probably accounts and technology transfer. They are desperate to pull for 99.9% of this trade. He does not want to upset his themselves away from their over-dependency on France Spanish partners. We much have direct contact with the and want greater economic exchange with the UK. Government of Gibraltar at the highest levels, and I will be monitoring that very closely. Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con): I am enjoying my Over the past year, I have created the cross-party hon. Friend’s speech very much. He is making some British middle east and north Africa council, which valid points. Does he share my view that the collapse in more than 200 parliamentarians have joined. I feel the eurozone, the difficulties in European economies passionately about the importance of the Arab world. and the subsequent collapse in the potential marketplace The 22 members of the Arab League are, after all, our for UK businesses have been drivers for UK companies neighbours and of huge strategic importance to the UK to look at other markets? They have seen the potential from a security perspective. Hon. Members will be in some middle eastern countries, the BRIC countries— horrified to learn that only 5% of British exports go to Brazil, Russia, India and China—and the far east, and the region—just 5%, to the whole of north Africa and that potential is still to be tapped. the middle east. What is striking when travelling around the middle Daniel Kawczynski: Absolutely. I could not agree east is the incredible strength of the British brand. We with my hon. Friend more, and I am sure that the have good commercial links in the United Arab Emirates, Minister will reply to his point. but there is almost no commercial activity in countries If I can achieve one thing from the debate, it will be such as Mauritania. When I visited Mauritania a few that the Minister goes out and advertises for a top years ago, I was the first British MP to go since 1960. I French export expert. I want the Minister to pinch him asked some of my colleagues what they thought of or her from the French export agency or a French Mauritania and they said that they thought it was a export sector. I want him to find him or her, whoever is 353WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 354WH

[Daniel Kawczynski] policing, border guards and training armies, navies and air forces—to a country such as Libya is a good thing. best, and pay him or her double what he or she is getting Surely, we ought, at the very least, to help Libya—with in France. Frankly, we will never get into the French all its instability—with our expertise. markets unless we have French understanding, in both language and how French-speaking countries operate. Jeremy Corbyn: I thank the hon. Gentleman for We are not normally prone to saying wonderful things securing the debate. His points about Libya and its about France; but to start pinching their contracts, we instability are absolutely correct. Is he not concerned need to understand how to do it. I want the Minister to that vast amounts of the weaponry that was supplied—not take that point seriously, and if not, at least explain to just by Britain, but by France and many others—to me what his Department is doing to ensure increasing various opposition groups under Gaddafi, or post-Gaddafi, competence in the French language and the ability to have now found their way into Mali and many other understand how French contractual operations function places across north Africa? There is a genuine danger of in French-speaking north Africa, so that we are in a further instability. better position to attract contracts. I pay tribute to the two Prime Minster’s trade Daniel Kawczynski: I certainly agree with the hon. ambassadors who are here. They do a superb job and Gentleman that a lot of equipment that the Gaddafi are in a privileged position. To appoint them trade regime had has got across the border into Mali and ambassadors, the Prime Minister obviously has great other countries. We are deviating slightly from the subject confidence in them, but how many people out there or of the debate, but I will say that most of that equipment in Shrewsbury know about trade ambassadors? I am is Russian. I am not sure what proportion is western- sure that they know my hon. Friends the Member for supplied arms. Wealden (Charles Hendry) and for Gloucester (Richard I pay tribute to Mr Richard Paniguian, head of the Graham). It is important that we communicate with UKTI Defence and Security Organisation, which is the SMEs in Shrewsbury and elsewhere, so that if they are military security part of UKTI. DSO is populated by interested in exporting to Indonesia, for example, we people who have been in the armed services. They can say, “There is a dedicated trade ambassador. This is understand the products and are passionate about them his name. This is how you get in contact with him,” and and their work. If UKTI generally can understand how do the same with Algeria and other countries. What DSO operates and replicate the passion, energy, enthusiasm work is the Minister’s Department doing to ensure and calibre of the staff, we will be motoring further greater understanding among SMEs of the vital resource ahead. of trade ambassadors and envoys that the Prime Minister put in place? I shall say a few things about British defence exports because I, for one, am not embarrassed that the United I have spent 20 years studying Libya. It is a country Kingdom exports security—it is extremely important about which I am passionate. I have many friends there for our country. Many hon. Members have in their whom I treat as family. Before the last election, I wrote a constituencies, as do I, defence operators and contractors, book about Libya and the appalling human rights firms on which many jobs and a lot of this country’s abuses there. My tremendous frustration with the previous prosperity depend. The UK has some of the most Labour Government trying to curry favour with Colonel rigorous export licensing procedures in the world. It Gaddafi was such that I decided to write the book, considers each application on a case-by-case basis, taking highlighting the extraordinary abuse in Libya. I presented into account, among other factors, the precise nature of the Prime Minister with a copy two weeks before the the equipment and the identity and track record of the 2010 election, and in 2011, I, along with others, pleaded recipient. Her Majesty’s Government do not—and will with him to intervene in what we thought would be a not—issue licences if they judge that the proposed bloodbath on the streets of Benghazi. Recently, I went export would provoke or prolong internal conflicts, or if to see him to highlight my concern about the ongoing there is a clear risk that it might be used aggressively instability in Libya. against another country or to facilitate internal repression. I passionately feel that British companies should be When circumstances change or new information comes exporting to Libya. The media circus has of course to light, we can and do revoke licences if the export is moved to Syria, but we must never forget that if we no longer consistent with the criteria. intervene in a country such as Libya, we have a duty Recently, I had to defend the Prime Minister on the and a responsibility to ensure that everything is done radio when he went to the United Arab Emirates and subsequently to help with security, building democracy many people criticised him for trying to sell them some and ensuring that residents have stability, so that they Typhoon jets. It would be the height of irresponsibility can trade with the UK. if the United Kingdom did not collaborate with our From my friends in Tripoli, I get daily reports of Gulf allies—sound, strategic allies such as the United kidnappings, violence and acts of terrorism; the Arab Emirates—to ensure that they had the capability Government still do not have control over large parts of to defend themselves against a belligerent neighbour the country. It is very important that we do everything who might attack them at any time. If countries such as possible to help Libya, by assisting her with security, the United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar and Saudi and here I am drawn into the point made by the right Arabia did not have British planes with which to try to hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill pre-empt naked aggression against them from Iran or (Mr Clarke) about our security industry. others, we would see increasing instability in the region. There are many people who would like to criticise You will be pleased to hear, Mr Betts, that I am British security exports, but exporting the knowledge coming towards the end of my speech, but let me just that we have accumulated in the UK over decades—on raise one or two remaining points. My hon. Friend the 355WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 356WH

Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell), accompanied I will end now with an example that relates to the me on the delegation to Gibraltar, and I want to make a Department for International Development. My last point that he wanted to make about the British Council. plea to the Minister is: what is his Department doing to The United Kingdom has a global British Council work with DFID to ensure that more British products network. Its work is very good, but we do not see it are sent overseas as part of the aid package? I will never providing any information on UKTI. How is the Minister’s forget that, when I served on it, the International Department collaborating with the British Council, utilising Development Committee visited a village on the Ethiopian- its extraordinary network, to ensure that as well as Kenyan border and saw a water irrigation project. I met sharing information about British language courses and all the village elders, who told me through a translator, all the other good things that it does, it communicates “Mr Kawczynski, we would like to thank you and the about UKTI and British commercial links? people of France for everything you are doing for us.” I I wish to talk very briefly about the European Union. said, “France! We’re British. What do you mean, France?” The Prime Minister hopes to renegotiate various aspects Of course, the non-governmental organisation hired by of our position with the European Union, and I hope DIFD was French, all the equipment was French, Japanese that one of those aspects will be how we go about or Chinese, and the people on the ground had no idea international trading agreements with other countries. that the aid was British. Clare Short had stripped the The first thing that happened to me when I was elected British branding from the goods, but I am glad that in 2005 was that I was sent to the World Trade Organisation there is now a British flag on our aid products. talks in Hong Kong. The other two Members of Parliament What work is the Minister doing to ensure that, at with me were the hon. Gentleman who is now the every opportunity, DFID utilises British products—whether Speaker and Lord Mandelson who, as trade commissioner, jeeps, water sanitation equipment or anything else? was representing the whole European Union. I found Even if the British product is 5% or 7% more expensive that very frustrating, because the United Kingdom did than its Chinese or French equivalent, let us do a not have a voice. The UK was represented by Lord cost-benefit analysis to understand the ramifications on Mandelson, who was representing all 27 nations, but the economy and jobs. We must ensure that, whenever different countries mean different things to other we can, a Department such as DFID does everything countries—for example, Gibraltar and New Zealand possible to help British SMEs. I hope that hon. Members are far more important to us than to Poland. I very have recognised my passion for exports, and I look much hope that there can be some movement on individual forward to the Minister’s reply. countries being able somehow to negotiate with countries of long standing, so that there is no one-size-fits-all criterion for the whole European Union. 2.11 pm (Windsor) (Con): My hon. Friend makes Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I thank the a powerful case for a good review of UKTI and how it hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel reports to Parliament and to the Government. Does he Kawczynski) for securing the debate and ensuring that share my view that if we want to be a great global we had the opportunity for this discussion. I will make trading nation once again, rebalancing our exports two points that he will agree with, but he may have further afield than the EU will mean that even some of problems with the rest of my speech. the arguments about being too dependent on the EU will begin to evaporate? If we increase our trade with Daniel Kawczynski: Let us have the nice things first. the rest of the world to 90%, leaving only 10% with the EU—not reducing the amount but the percentage—all of a sudden some of the concerns that people may have Jeremy Corbyn: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. about our EU relationships will begin to ebb away. As someone who grew up in Shropshire, I fully appreciate the beauties of Shrewsbury. Daniel Kawczynski: I cannot thank my hon. Friend My first point is that the hon. Gentleman’s comments enough for that intervention, because it brings me to about language and the British approach to the rest of the exact point that I want to make. I was admonished the world are absolutely right. It is depressing to find by the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member that the number of students entering university this for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander), on year to study foreign languages has gone down, as it did the Floor of the House for suggesting that at 47%—I last year, and that the quality and quantity of language may be wrong in that figure—the proportion of our training in many secondary schools is wholly inadequate. exports that currently goes to the European Union is We need to start language teaching much earlier, in too high. I indicated that I wanted more of our trade to primary schools as well as in secondary schools, and to be with the outside world, particularly with the emerging give greater emphasis to the learning of all foreign countries. He took that almost as though I was somehow languages at university—not just the obvious European being disrespectful or did not understand the importance ones, such as Spanish, French, German and Italian, but of the European Union to us, which, quite frankly, is a the Chinese and Arabic languages, as well as Hindi, very outdated perspective. Bengali and others. We are a country that has to trade The European Union will of course diminish in and export, and if German and French companies can importance during our lifetimes—certainly during those send people around the world who are competent in all of our children—to the extent that it will not account the local languages, we should be able to do the same. It for half of our overseas exports, as rapidly emerging is extraordinarily arrogant for us to turn up in a country markets such as Brazil increase. The traffic is going one and assume that, because we are British, everybody will way. I completely agree with my hon. Friend the Member want to speak to us in English, so we just have to be for Windsor (Adam Afriyie). prepared to make those changes. 357WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 358WH

[Jeremy Corbyn] colleagues, including me. It draws attention to the “Scrutiny of Arms Exports and Arms Controls” report, House of The second point on which I am sure the hon. Gentleman Commons paper 205, and states will agree relates to the engineering base of much of “that the Government would do well to acknowledge that there is British trade with the world. It is obviously essential to an inherent conflict between strongly promoting arms exports to have a high degree of understanding of engineering and authoritarian regimes whilst strongly criticising their lack of science teaching both in schools and universities, and to human rights at the same time”. recognise the status of engineering, which has done so I look forward to the Minister’s response to that. much in this country; I am thinking of the railways, shipbuilding, motors and all the other aspects of engineering. Engineering is often seen as a dirty-hands Daniel Kawczynski: The hon. Gentleman gave a list profession, rather than a mainstream one. I can say that of countries about which concerns have been expressed, because I come from a family of engineers who closely including the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, followed that whole narrative. The basis of an awful lot but has he visited those countries? I have taken to those of our past trade was the export of high-quality, high-tech countries delegations of parliamentarians, including Labour engineering products. MPs. They interacted with non-governmental and human rights organisations there, and got a very different perspective on what is happening on the ground from Jeremy Lefroy: I entirely endorse what the hon. the one reported by the British media in this country. Gentleman said about languages. The issue is about improving not only exports overseas, but employment opportunities locally. A company in my constituency Jeremy Corbyn: I have not visited Saudi Arabia or the cannot recruit staff from Britain, but has to look overseas UAE, but I have visited many countries on the list and to recruit its foreign-language speaking staff. There are others in those regions. Only half an hour ago, I spoke job opportunities right here in the UK for people who to a young man from Bahrain. He came to this country speak the foreign languages he mentioned. as a place of safety and security, because of how brutally he was treated in prison in Bahrain. He showed me the shot marks on his body—from birdshot—inflicted Jeremy Corbyn: I obviously completely concur with on him by the police because he was taking part in a the hon. Gentleman, but I also recognise that many demonstration for democracy in Bahrain. His view is families in Britain who are bilingual in a variety of that the Bahrain regime is propped up by Saudi Arabia, languages—I cannot put an exact figure on it, but I Britain and the United States, that it is an enormous would think that about 70 different languages are spoken purchaser of arms from this country and that it provides in my constituency—and many brilliant young bilingual military facilities for both Britain and the USA, but it people do not seem to get job opportunities in companies has an appalling human rights record. that are often trading with the countries that their parents came from. We should recognise that we have Although non-governmental organisations in Saudi those resources in our society. Arabia are doing their best, we must ask serious questions about the human rights record of Saudi Arabia; there is As I said in my intervention, I want to raise some the use of the death penalty, the suppression of opposition arms trade issues, which are highly appropriate because groups, the denial of women’s rights and a whole lot of the biennial arms fair, the Defence and Security Equipment other issues. Even the hon. Member for Shrewsbury International exhibition, is taking place in the London and Atcham could not claim to concur with the Saudi docklands. I think I am right in saying that more than Government’s approach to human rights, or indeed 1,000 exhibitors—1,400, I believe—are now plying their support it in any way. We are the biggest arms exporter wares. to Saudi Arabia, and the influence that Saudi Arabia has is absolutely enormous. We should think carefully I have many concerns, because if we compare the on this matter, because if we export CS gas and crowd- countries and companies involved in that arms fair in control and anti-personnel equipment, as we do to the London docklands with the Foreign Office’s report nearly every one of the countries in the middle eastern on human rights problems and abuses, we find an region, they will be used against the legitimate democratic unfortunate coincidence between, on the one hand, the process that wishes to bring about the kind of society countries exhibiting at that international arms fair, countries that we enjoy, with our freedom of speech and elected that British companies that are exhibiting wish to sell Parliament. If those people are shot by the equipment to, or countries invited to send delegates, and, on the that we have supplied, are we not part of the problem? other hand, serious human rights concerns that the Are we not partly responsible for that oppression of Foreign Office has drawn attention to, and countries human rights? with human rights records that it thinks we should be concerned about. Algeria, Bahrain, Iraq, Oman, the The hon. Gentleman tells us that the UKTI Defence United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia are among & Security Organisation works very hard and does very the UK’s biggest customers for arms purchases, and well. I am not surprised that he mentions that it is Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Libya, which heavily populated by people who were formerly in the were not on the list in 2011, have now received invitations, armed services. Let me ask him this. The end-user although human rights problems are legion in those certificate system and the monitoring of arms exports countries. have been around for a long time, but there seems to be an incredible degree of leakage. As soon as one raises An early-day motion was tabled two days ago, on the issue, and says, “We shouldn’t be exporting arms to 10 September, by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion that country”, we are told that someone else will do it. (Caroline Lucas), and has been signed by a number of They say that the French, Germans, Chinese or Russians 359WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 360WH will. Perhaps that is so; they probably will try, but we will end up, and the misery and suffering that is caused have to start somewhere and influence others. If we are as a result of them? We cannot wash our hands of this exporting equipment that is used—it is often quite or wish it away; we have to take responsibility for it. low-technology equipment—to oppress human rights protesters, we should ask ourselves some serious questions 2.25 pm about it. Who are we to table motions complaining Charles Hendry (Wealden) (Con): I congratulate my about the oppression of democracy in Saudi Arabia if hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham we have supplied the equipment that oppresses the (Daniel Kawczynski) on securing this debate. He made democratic wishes of people in the first place? I say that a whole range of critically important points. Furthermore, as an example; there are many others that can be used. he has given us the opportunity to discuss these issues We can learn lessons from the Iran-Iraq war, which and the important contribution that trade can make to took place some years ago. At the time, as now, the west our economic well-being, and I thank him for that. I was fairly obsessed with supporting Iraq against Iran also want to put on record my role as the Prime Minister’s because of the presence of the ayatollah in Iran. I am trade envoy to Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan, not in any way defending the human rights record of and as president of the advisory board of the Russo-British the Iranian Government, any more than I would defend chamber of commerce. Those are all unremunerated the human rights record of the Iraqi Government of roles, but should be put on the record before my comments that time, or indeed Iraqi Governments since. Britain are made. quite happily provided equipment, support and political When I was a Minister travelling overseas, I was often cover for Saddam Hussein in Iraq because it was opposed asked, “Why do we not see more British companies to Iran. The west did that, as did the US and lots of here? Where are the British companies?” It was evident other people. In 1988, when the gas attack took place to me that right across the world there is an admiration on the Kurdish people in Halabja, I raised the issue here for the skills, expertise and creativity of British companies, in Parliament and was told that the situation was serious, the brilliance of our education system, and the integrity bad and quite appalling. I then asked why we were and straightforwardness of British companies. Given involved in the Baghdad arms fair only eight months the tenor of what my hon. Friend the Member for later. The Minister at the time told me that it was good Shrewsbury and Atcham said, working with that enthusiasm business. We went ahead with that arms fair, and only in many countries to ensure a greater British presence two years later we were at war with Iraq. No doubt should be absolutely at the heart of our trade and some of the equipment that was being fired back at foreign policy. I am delighted by the extent to which the British troops had been sold to Iraq by Britain. What Government have been doing just that. goes around comes around. What I also saw, as a visiting Minister and subsequently, There is a disproportion in many of the issues. Arms is that historically we have gone about this trade in a exports contributed, I think, 1.5% of the total exports different way from the French, Germans and Italians. of this country, yet they have a wholly disproportionate Part of that was because we did not separate out trade level of support from the Department of Trade and and politics. Too often, difficult political issues were Industry and the Department for Business, Innovation allowed to become a real barrier to trade. My view, and and Skills, and there is a substantial degree of subsidy that of the Germans, the French and others, is that for the research done through the domestic purchase of trade is one of the best ways of creating more openness, the products. I do not wish to go on for too long, but I greater transparency and a better trading relationship. want to register the point that there are many people in The more that we can get British companies, accountants, this country who are deeply uneasy about our arms solicitors and others in there, the better our prospects of export policy, and about the export of surveillance leading those countries in the direction in which we equipment, high-tech planes and everything else that want them to go. can be used to bomb and strafe people in civil wars in any part of the world, much as we deplore those civil There is a great deal that needs to be done. Our trade wars and are concerned about what is happening about needs to be broadened to more countries. Our focus as them. trade envoys in the fast-growing emerging markets is an important part of that process. Through UKTI, we can I am always told, “If you raise all these issues, it will help take businesses beyond the normal markets. For cost a lot of jobs in the arms industry.”I fully understand example, we can take them beyond Moscow and St the employment issue, but I also fully understand the Petersburg and get them into Tatarstan and some of the enormous, brilliant skills that we have that produce other Russian republics, which have been pretty closed these weapons and the equipment that backs them up. to many British companies. None the less, many of the workers and I would rather We need to ensure that we take the focus beyond the the brilliance and skills were put towards exporting most expected industries. In the three countries in which peaceful products, useful goods, energy-efficient goods I am trade envoy, the focus, inevitably, is on oil, gas and and transport products, such as trains, planes, cars and minerals. Let us look at the opportunities in design. ships, instead of getting us so deeply involved in the Astana is holding Expo 2017, and we want British arms industry. Once we have supplied arms to an companies to build the infrastructure and the low-carbon authoritarian regime, we cannot wash our hands of it transport system. Turkmenistan is spending half the and pretend that it will go away. budget of the London Olympics on the Asian indoor I want to know how much money has been spent on and martial arts games. Let us ensure that we capitalise the exhibition in the docklands. Who authorised the on this extraordinary moment in our history when we invitation list, and who allowed many of the companies, are seen to have run one of the best games ever. I including Russian arms exporters and others, to come welcome such moves as part of the drive we are seeing to Britain, knowing full well where many of the products through UKTI. 361WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 362WH

[Charles Hendry] UKTI’s staff have been sacked during the last six years for non-performance; that is my understanding. Does My experience of UKTI is of a lean, thinly spread he at least share my view that it is important that the organisation. I marvel at how much it is able to do, and chief executive of UKTI should be more empowered at how every request that goes through is dealt with when it comes to the hiring and firing of UKTI staff? speedily. It is enthusiastic and shows real expertise in the countries in which we work. I link that with Scottish Charles Hendry: That can be achieved within the Development International. Clearly, UKTI does not focus of the Department, and we can certainly see if cover Scotland in the same way that we are talking there are ways in which the chief executive of UKTI can about, but around the world, the work of SDI should be given the authority that my hon. Friend calls for. also be recognised. However, taking UKTI away from being directly under However, those organisations can only do their work the responsibility of individual Ministers would lead to because of the way in which they work with other a loss of a significant part of the working relationship—a groups, including business groups and organisations part that brings real benefits. such as the Kazakh-British Trade and Industry Council, the Turkmenistan UK Trade and Industry Council and Jeremy Lefroy: Does my hon. Friend agree that the similar groups that focus on bringing businesses together. work that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has Those groups are run by people with a detailed understanding done since 2010 to make trade, business and exports a and depth of knowledge of other countries, to try to real part of the roles of our diplomatic missions overseas advocate and advance the role of British companies. has been hugely important, and that we are already That must be seen as an integral part of this process, as seeing the results in increased exports to some countries is working with organisations such as British Expertise, that we perhaps had not traded significantly with before? which does a tremendous amount to lead trade missions and give people the chance to visit other countries for Charles Hendry: My hon. Friend brings me absolutely the first time. It recognises that for many people doing beautifully to the final part of my comments, which is so, there is a nervousness, because there is a different on exactly that point. We are incredibly well served by language, culture and way of life. People going abroad our missions around the world, and by the extent to do not want to do something that inadvertently offends which our ambassadors and their teams are now very their host, so going through an organisation such as focused on industry and trade opportunities. British Expertise can be important. Of course, the chambers of commerce, such as the Russo-British chamber of Much as I and other trade envoys would love to meet commerce, can organise separate events to bring together every company in Shrewsbury that wants to become people who are keen to do business and to take forward involved in a country, my job is primarily to help open the bonds of co-operation between countries. the doors of Government Ministers in countries where often there is not a regular flow of foreign Ministers I part company with my hon. Friend the Member for going through, so as to push that trade process forward. Shrewsbury and Atcham on this point: I am not persuaded However, we could not do it without the expertise and that such work would be best delivered by a stand-alone focus of others. The extraordinary growth that we are agency that has been taken out of Government. I want experiencing in some of those markets—there has been the Under-Secretary of State for Skills, who is here a doubling of trade with Russia, and a trebling of trade today, to bump into people from UKTI in the corridors with some countries in the middle east—shows how of Nos. 1 to 19 Victoria street; to know that they are that policy has been working. people who work directly for him; and to know that he does not have to go through the formalities of working Jeremy Corbyn: The hon. Gentleman’s point about with an agency and going through its chief executive or the quality of British higher education and universities directors simply because he wants to say, “Remind me was very well made. On his travels, does he pick up, as I what is going on in Ukraine,” or “Tell me more about do, on the fact that there is great concern about the Algeria.” I want him to be able to call those people into complications of applying for visas to study in Britain—the his office at short notice and get updates, and to be able tier 4 visa system—and about the cost of higher education to capitalise and move quickly when an opportunity in Britain? From my experience of local universities in arises. my constituency, I know that we are losing students to That direct reporting line to Ministers is absolutely other places because of those complications, and the central to the ability of UKTI to be successful. UKTI’s message that I get from those universities and from my role is simply too important to be put at arm’s length travels is that we should simplify the system to continue from the core of Government; UKTI should be a part to attract students. of the process of government. Also, UKTI’s dual reporting structure—it reports to both the Department for Business, Charles Hendry: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid Innovation and Skills and the Foreign and Commonwealth point. In the countries that I have been going to, I have Office—is very valuable, because it engages more Ministers found that most of the students who come to the UK in its work. It ensures that more Ministers, when they either self-pay or are on Government scholarships. are thinking of going abroad, are also thinking, “Which Kazakhstan sends 9,000 students overseas, and 4,000 of companies can I take with me, and how do we maximise those have come to Britain on full scholarships. We have the benefit for UK plc in the course of those visits?” been the country of choice because of the quality of our universities. There is a case for removing from the Daniel Kawczynski: I understand the point that my immigration figures the number of students who are hon. Friend is making, and we will have to agree to coming here to study, because students can become an disagree on this issue. However, only two members of easy target when it comes to trying to bring down the 363WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 364WH immigration figures, when our ability to attract them is What my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury actually a tremendous national asset that we should be and Atcham was really advocating was the crucial looking to capitalise on as best we can. importance of small and medium-sized enterprises, and Nazarbayev university in Kazakhstan is partnering the importance of exports to the future growth of with Cambridge university and University college London, SMEs. He knows as I do—as we all do—how vital that and I hope that in due course it will partner with is to the growth of jobs, in Shrewsbury or in my Edinburgh university and other universities as well. All constituency of Gloucester, where we have a long tradition its students are taught in English; they are trilingual, of manufacturing and exporting. However, as I have speaking Kazakh, Russian and English. Our universities said before in the main Chamber, in Gloucester we lost have a fantastic chance to make a contribution, and to 6,000 jobs in business during the 13 years of my two ensure that the next generation of people coming through Labour predecessors as Gloucester MP, although we have a strongly pro-British approach, at least in part a have created 1,600 new jobs in business since 2010. British education, and a willingness to do business with There is a great deal more to be done, which is this country. precisely where SMEs come in, including the 500 members The opportunities for us around the world are simply of the Gloucester branch of the Federation of Small extraordinary and UKTI deserves a great deal of the Businesses and the members of many other branches credit for the progress that we are making in opening up all around the country. So how do we help SMEs to markets. export? That question has been around for a long time. In fact, I wrote a paper on it as British trade commissioner for China, which, alarmingly, was 23 years ago. What 2.36 pm has changed since then is the speed of communication Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Thank you, and access to information through technology. We also Mr Betts, for calling me to speak in this important have the new sectors and centres of UK expertise and, debate. above all and most interestingly, the much higher standing of the brand “made in Britain”. I congratulate that towering presence among export- supporting MPs, my hon. Friend the Member for To bring alive that fact most immediately, at breakfast Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski), on securing this morning I was with the CEO of the west Kowloon the debate. He is absolutely right to act as a champion cultural district authority, which covers 40 acres of for business, both in his constituency and around the reclaimed land from Hong Kong’s harbour that will be country. There are a number of us here who like to be transmogrified into a fantastic centrepiece for architectural part of the ranks of export salesmen in the country, design and creative arts from around the world, under a although sadly there are not so many in the Labour masterplan made by Foster and Partners. It will feature party as in the Conservative party. a huge number of UK stars from different sectors. The CEO of the cultural authority went yesterday to see Daniel Kawczynski: My hon. Friend refers to the lack some of the things achieved by Britain in time for the of interest in this debate from the Labour Benches. I Olympics. He was staggered by the fact that the BBC must say that we have double the number of Labour sports hub was created in 21 weeks. MPs for this debate that we had for my previous debate, It is worth remembering that the west Kowloon cultural because at least there is one. district authority has been in place for 16 years and has only just put a spade in the ground. The assumption Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): Two. that many of us had—I spent a large chunk of my life in that part of the world—that everything is done at great speed in Hong Kong and that nothing happens very fast Daniel Kawczynski: Well, there is only one apart from in Britain has been turned around over the last few the shadow Minister. Last time, there were zero. years by some of the achievements in this country. They help to reinforce the concept of “made in Britain” or Richard Graham: I thank my hon. Friend for his “created in Britain” being a powerful brand, and they mathematical assessment of the situation. He makes an give our SMEs the chance to export to markets they absolutely valid point—everyone in the House should previously might not have even thought of. champion business and exports for UK plc. At the heart of my hon. Friend’s argument was Jeremy Lefroy: Does my hon. Friend agree—I lived whether it is effective for UK Trade & Investment to in Tanzania for 11 years, and I declare an interest as straddle two Departments. That is an interesting conundrum chairman of the all-party group on Tanzania—that one for the Minister—the Under-Secretary of State for Skills— thing that we need to turn around is complacency? In who, of course, straddles two Departments himself, Tanzania, we saw “made in Britain”being a huge advantage although they are not the same two Departments that as a brand, yet the advertising for some of our products, UKTI straddles. Personally, I am all in favour of activities which in those days included Land Rover, was miserable that straddle different Departments. Cross-departmental compared with their competitors, such as Toyota. There activity is a good thing, because silos do not exist in the have been many improvements since then, but we need real world. The key to it all is having autonomy for to do far more on marketing in target countries. UKTI rather than independence, which I think is what my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), who is the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to Richard Graham: I agree on the advertising and marketing “the -stans”, was effectively advocating and supporting point, but in the case of Land Rover there have been earlier. However, I will leave the Minister to comment more significant changes, not least in the speed, efficiency on that. and quality of product that Jaguar Land Rover provides. 365WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 366WH

[Richard Graham] I will make a small handful of points. First, it is important that UKTI’s GREAT campaign is publicised It is a remarkable success story, as he would agree. I as widely as possibly to all Members of Parliament. It is totally accept what he said about its presence in east a major marketing campaign. It is visually attractive, Africa, which is a happy land in my experience. powerful and resonates in different countries. I launched To return to my point on the SME debate, in some it in Indonesia. I hope that the Minister will confirm ways it has not changed since I wrote that paper all that the regional offices of UKTI have invited every those years ago. The debate focuses on what Government MPs to the GREAT launch in their area. I am delighted should do to best help SMEs export. For example, to help the launch in Gloucestershire next Tuesday. All should they subsidise many trips abroad for SMEs so MPs can and should play a role in encouraging their that they can get to know the countries to which they SMEs to export by joining the GREAT campaign. might export? Do the SMEs have the resources or the Secondly, UKTI is already doing huge good work. sales structure to be able to follow through, or are the My hon. Friend the Member for Wealden rightly paid trips an interesting but non-productive form of business tribute to that work, as did my hon. Friend the Member tourism? Should we help only the larger companies, and for Shrewsbury and Atcham, on the back of his powerful through them indirectly boost SME exporters through paper, which he spent much time and effort in producing. the supply chains of those large companies? I am grateful to him for doing that. They are both right, because some remarkable things are going on. Should we use Government offices for everything on export help, or can chambers of commerce be better Returning to the west Kowloon example I gave earlier, partners for certain SME goals? In some cases, chambers it is most recent in my mind from breakfast this morning of commerce can be more selective than Government that two small companies that I had never heard of can. If someone needs a lawyer in Jakarta and they ring before—Keepthinking and North, which are both based up the British embassy, the embassy will be obliged to in Clerkenwell, in the east of this city—have won significant provide a list of every lawyer in town. What that person contracts with that project. That is a good example of is really looking for is just one reputable company that how companies that may not be known to me or other can do the business. Government cannot choose a lawyer hon. Members here today are winning contracts abroad for someone, but a chamber of commerce might say, with the help of UKTI. That is important, because we “Other companies like yours have effectively used x, y already know about certain familiar exports, such as the and z.” There are situations in which a chamber of wings, engines, landing gear and coatings and so on that commerce can be a more effective partner for SMEs. make up 38% of every Airbus and are made in Britain. It is important to remember that those parts are made What about where the Government should focus? Do in Britain, because the export value is always credited to we think that the work on strategic goals, such as EU France, but it is equally important that we understand trade agreements made successfully with, for example, that unknown companies in new sectors have real Korea will add most value, or do we need an unremitting opportunities overseas. focus through UKTI on high value added opportunities in selected sectors, such as energy and resources, on There is an opportunity, which I hope the Minister which my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden is will agree to take up, for UKTI to hold a seminar, focusing successfully in the “-stans”? I am focusing possibly in Parliament—we know that it is difficult to more on infrastructure and aerospace in Indonesia. Do move MPs out of our comfort zone, and we are required we perhaps need something like an army—I apologise by the Whips to attend debates and vote and so on—to to the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) update MPs on some of the opportunities in new sectors for using this metaphor—with a selection of weapons and some of the new companies across the country in from which we choose the most appropriate for the sectors such as creative media, medical science, nano-science opportunity and the market? and education. I have been promoting two things in Indonesia with a Jeremy Corbyn: The hon. Gentleman should use the degree of success. I hope that there is more to come. The word “tools” instead. first is a fantastic computer software tabling programme for universities. There are more than 100 universities in Indonesia. The software was created by a Cambridge-based Richard Graham: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely company, is high-quality and could be exported to right: “tools” is a better word. Do we need a selection of other parts of the world. The second is a quality assurance tools? We need a flexible approach that can draw on the agency, which is highly rated internationally. It is based most appropriate tool in the right marketplace for the in my constituency and is doing work in many countries right opportunity, with an organisation led, as UKTI across the world, but it could work in others as well. Let now is, by people with direct experience of leading UKTI educate MPs, who then could not possibly complain businesses in their own right. I pay tribute to UKTI for to the Minister that they did not know what UKTI was recruiting an old friend of mine, Crispin Simon. He is doing or what new opportunities there were. now leading on SMEs and has led at least one FTSE Thirdly, in countries in which we have both a UKTI 350 company in the recent past. and a Department for International Development presence, I agree with the Minister, Lord Green, that there is I believe we can do more to act as a united UK plc. The much to be said for a greater role for the chambers of story of the first biodiesel plant in Indonesia, made by commerce. That is happening and is to be welcomed. the wonderful Gloucestershire-based manufacturer Green We must accept that during the process the quality of Fuels—I am taking the Indonesian ambassador to Green service will not necessarily always be even across the Fuels next week—is a good example of a business world. It will vary from country to country and from contract by a private business that is totally in line with chamber of commerce to chamber of commerce. our DFID objectives for Indonesia. The contract should 367WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 368WH open further opportunities for the UK in a general still negative. In a period when we have a weaker currency sense, and I believe there are other such examples than previously, exports should be growing at a far elsewhere in the world. A more united, working-together faster rate. spirit by DFID and UKTI could lead to exciting results. UKTI must play its role, and it has a primary function I finish on a note as positive as those of the Members on exports. As chairman of the all-party group on who spoke earlier. The help given to me, as one of the space, it is clear to me that Britain has amazing industries Prime Minister’s trade envoys, by our embassy in Jakarta, in our space, science and engineering sectors, particularly which includes both UKTI and the British Council, has in robotics. We often talk about the magnificent, double- been powerful. We are all working together on strategic digit economic growth in China and some of the emerging and tactical goals that will benefit both Indonesia and economies, but our own economy has a major area in the UK, which is important. A win-win solution is which economic growth has outpaced many of those much more attractive than simply trying to thrust a nations. We have seen double-digit economic growth in product at some hapless overseas country. the space sector and related industries for the past Prudential, for example, derives significant earnings 10 years, so we do not need to look to China; we can from its Indonesian operations, and in return it provides look to our own nation to work out which elements of insurance and pension solutions for many millions of what we do here are exportable. The space sector and Indonesians. Prudential employs no less than 190,000 people the products and services therein, of course, are eminently in that great archipelago. That is what UK companies exportable. can achieve for themselves, starting from nothing not very long ago. That is what companies can achieve for [SIR ROGER GALE in the Chair] UK plc and for their host country, which shows the value of inward investment—exported investment from We also export our education system, our universities the UK. Such investment offers great opportunities for and academic institutions and our research. We punch British SMEs to service, in this case, Prudential either in above our weight on research—we have 1% of the the UK or overseas, and from that base to expand and world’s population and 12% of citations and Nobel service other financial institutions. British service companies prizes. The Open university is a great example of a can be very successful. British export to the rest of the world. Again, both BIS and immigration officials can play a role on both the Debates such as this are a great marketing opportunity ease with which visas are handed out and on the way in for trade envoys, so it is appropriate for me to finish by which we advertise our wares abroad. Tourism, of course, saying that if Members here today, or those who read is another area that could be classed as an export—tourism the debate later, have specialist companies in their imports money into our country, at least. constituencies that believe they have something to offer Indonesia, they are of course absolutely welcome to UKTI also has a major role on inward investment. contact me. I will do my best, with UKTI, to try to help There has been an interesting political narrative over those SMEs export a little bit more. the past decade or so. We have been a little shy and embarrassed about wealth creation. When companies make massive profits and when wealthy people come to 2.52 pm invest in Britain, we are all a bit concerned and not quite sure whether it is a good thing or whether we Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): I do not intend to should be nervous or concerned. Unless we love wealth detain people too long, but given the passion, energy creation and unless we love and welcome people who and skill that my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury have the cash to invest in our businesses, we will not go and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) has put into the very far very fast because, as we know, the banks here report on UKTI and its very good recommendations, I do not yet have money available. Despite the good work want to say a few words in support of what he has been of the funding for lending scheme, there is still not doing. I also want to echo some of the comments made sufficient cash available for UK SMEs and exporting today by the trade envoys and others. companies to produce their wares and make their way. I welcome my hon. Friend’s work and the passion We must ensure that UKTI is working to attract with which the Conservative-led coalition Government, foreign investors to Britain. Part of what I like about particularly in the Department for Business, Innovation the report, and about a lot of the background work on and Skills, have been pursuing the export and economic it, is that the report recognises that it might be a good growth agendas. We all want economic growth, which idea at some point for UKTI to have some accountability. comes from two places. It comes internally by reducing For a region, an area, a country or a district, UKTI taxation, improving competitiveness and removing should answer the question, “How much foreign investment regulation—a good stab is being made at that—but it have you attracted into this area over x or y period?” also comes from trade, exports and inward investment Several Members have asked questions along those from abroad. His report highlights that we perhaps lines to up the ante and to ensure that Ministers are require a bit more focus on UKTI’s role in bringing aware that this would be an important way to focus the about the economic growth and competitiveness that minds of those at UKTI on delivering results. They do we all want. some great work in facilitating meetings at overseas We all want Britain to be a great global trading trade shows, working with DFID and the Foreign and nation, and if that is to be our position in, say, 10, 15 or Commonwealth Office and supporting Ministers, but 20 years’ time, we must up our game on exports. At the the spotlight would focus sharply on the outputs for moment, we still have a negative balance of payments. inward investment if UKTI consistently answered the That is improving, and the Government have done question of how much direct foreign investment it has good work in that area, but the balance of payments is seen or facilitated within a region. 369WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 370WH

[Adam Afriyie] Complicated matrix reporting might not continue, but it could be adjusted to make UKTI more accountable My one other general point is on the balance of trade to Parliament and more directly visible to Ministers. between the EU and the rest of the world. In many ways I welcome the report, and I hope that the Government I understand the Foreign Secretary’s response to the will go through its recommendations carefully, although suggestion that we should somehow minimise our trade I appreciate that we will have a general response today. with the EU, if that is how he heard the question—I say For me, inward investment is key. We do not have the that to him in a good mood. I am certain that he, the cash in our British banks, so let us get it from those who coalition Government and all of us would like to see a have it elsewhere in the world, to boost our economy massive boost in trade with the rest of the world, and here. They will do that with good cheer and good will if with the EU, too. If there were a massive boost in trade we let them recognise that we value and like the fact that with the rest of the world—the BRIC countries and they have created wealth and are prepared to spend it elsewhere—the proportion of our trade with the EU here. If we want the UK to be back on top, UKTI must would naturally reduce. Why is that a good thing? up its game and play its part. I very much welcome the Because the rest of the world is growing a lot faster than report and thank my hon. Friend the Member for the EU at the moment and because overall trade would Shrewsbury and Atcham for securing the debate. be increased, preferably disproportionately, to the rest of the world. We have some great connections across the world. 3.2 pm My father is from Ghana, although I was born and raised here. Ghana is the gateway to Africa, and it uses Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): It is a pleasure to the English language and has a similar legal system and serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, and to follow attitude to life. There are all sorts of opportunities in my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie). such Commonwealth countries, with which we have a I want to dwell for a moment on the point that he made natural affinity without the language barrier that many so forcefully about the importance of inward investment of us here have been hesitant to breach in the past. and to pay tribute to the work of UKTI, which has seen Therefore, even in our relationship with the European an advance in British exports and inward investment Union and the judgment that we shall make in the over the past few years. Those two things are intimately referendum, UKTI has a bearing. If it does its job well, connected, as my hon. Friend says, because a lot of that we as a nation will feel much more confident in making inward investment results in exports for the UK. bold decisions. To take my constituency and my county, Stafford and Staffordshire, our major private sector employer is a Daniel Kawczynski: My hon. Friend made a point French inward investor, Alstom, which is a major exporter about Ghana and his family coming from there, so he from the United Kingdom. Only last year, it won a large obviously has a great interest in and understanding of contract to supply the Swedish electricity authority that country. I was born in Warsaw, Poland, and speak with transformers. Another major employer is Perkins, Polish fluently, but at no stage has UKTI asked me for which is part of the US Caterpillar group. I believe that any advice about Poland or to take part in any projects at least 90% of its Stafford production of large generator involving Poland. Does he agree that UKTI should sets is exported around the world to countries as diverse better understand the interests of Members of Parliament, as Afghanistan, Nigeria and South Africa. Evo-Stik is a specifically in such countries, and utilise us more? French direct investment, which is now owned by the Total group. While it is a consumer product company it, too, has exports. Broadcrown in Hixon also makes Adam Afriyie: That is absolutely right. With the trade generator sets that are sold all around the world, and envoys, for UKTI to focus on MPs who might have that company employs almost 200 people in my natural connections or affinities with countries with constituency. which we want to trade would be a good step forward. I Jaguar Land Rover, to which reference has already therefore welcome my hon. Friend’s important work on been made, is in the process of building one of the the middle east and north Africa council, which connects largest engine factories in the world in South Staffordshire, nations together and makes for a more natural route to on the border with Wolverhampton, with excellent support follow. from both councils. That plant will be of huge benefit As others have pointed out, we have a wonderful not only to employment for the people of Staffordshire brand here in Britain. I am MP for Windsor, where we and Wolverhampton, but to the United Kingdom, because have a royal presence. The British brand abroad is much of its production will go into cars that are eventually exceptionally strong, and sometimes it can be frustrating exported. JLR, under its Tata ownership, contributes a when one is abroad, whether on parliamentary, family huge amount to British exports. The link between inward or business trips, and one realises that the British brand investment and exports is therefore important, and is not being displayed that well and is not that easily UKTI absolutely understands that the two things must accessible. There is good work to be done in raising our not be seen in separate silos. profile abroad, and UKTI has a role to play. We have our own British manufacturers in my area. The report is excellent, and I hope that the Government JCB is one of the largest and best known private British will take the time to respond carefully to each companies, employing the best part of 10,000 people in recommendation. Not all of them may be successful, the UK. It not only exports, but manufactures overseas, but the direction of travel in each is absolutely right. so it benefits workers not only in the United Kingdom, There might not be a separate agency, for example, but but in those other parts of the world where it there could be autonomy within the existing structure. manufactures—India, China, South Africa and Brazil. 371WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 372WH

There are also the pottery companies in my area. People 3.9 pm tend to think of ceramics as a business of the past but, when I last looked, pottery and ceramics were a net Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): May I begin by exporter for the UK—we export more than we import— saying what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship because we export high-value ware that lasts much again, Sir Roger? I thank the hon. Member for Shrewsbury longer than other products and that is appreciated and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) for his hard work in throughout the world by hotels, catering businesses and producing his important report. It is well researched, individuals. with significant real-life observation of the difficulties businesses have experienced in securing help to export, That brings me to our own procurement in this and it provides astute and telling recommendations. country. Sometimes, those who procure—in the public sector in particular, but also in the private sector, such As the debate is on trade and investment, let me also as those companies that have a big responsibility for our take the opportunity to thank the outgoing Minister for electrical infrastructure—tend to take a short-term view Trade and Investment, Lord Green. In all his dealings on value for money. They look at something and say, with me, he has been the epitome of courtesy and “This will wear out in 10 or 15 years, so we need to buy decency. He has been admirably non-partisan in his something that is cost-effective over 10 or 15 years.” In approach, wanting only what is best and most advantageous our country’s transport and electrical infrastructure, for Britain and its businesses. I have not heard a single some transformers that were made in Britain—perhaps business man or woman speak ill of Lord Green—quite by English Electric, then General Electric—have been the reverse, they are unanimous in their praise and in place for 40 or 50 years. In effect, they have been admiration of him. Opposition Members will sorely working for free for the past 20 to 30 years. Customers miss him, and I hope the Minister will pass on our best overseas understand that buying something marked wishes to Lord Green as he reacquaints himself with his “Made in Britain” means that they will get a product grandchildren. that will last not five or 10 years, but 20, 30 or 40 years. I mentioned the non-partisan approach being taken They are therefore prepared to pay a premium for our to this topic, and there is not much dissent from the products, yet our own organisations, which have a fairly notion that the House—indeed, the whole country—would short-term view when procuring for infrastructure, are like to see an export-led recovery. There is a huge world not prepared to do so. I ask the Minister to consider of opportunity for British business. The global economy how we can persuade British organisations, such as is expected to double in size within a dozen years. The National Grid, to take a long-term view of the value of number of middle-class people in the world, with higher British products and to realise that they will last for consumption and higher disposable incomes, will triple not only 10 or 15 years, but 20, 30 or 40 years, as our to 5 billion, and they will all be eager to buy iconic overseas customers know that they will. British brands and fantastic British products. As has rightly been said several times this afternoon, the British I also want us to concentrate on learning from the brand is strong and well respected in international country with the best record in the world on exports: markets. Every constituency has businesses that are Germany. We need to learn from the Germans, because dynamic, productive and eager to sell abroad. Given its they do some things that we do not, but that we need mercantile history and current strengths, this country to do. As I said, Germany’s Hermes export finance should be at the forefront of modern exporting nations, scheme covered ¤29.1 billion of exports last year, but it often feels as though that is not the case. whereas UK Export Finance covered a little more than £4 billion. Exporting is good for business. Actually, it is beneficial not just for individual companies’ short-term bottom The Germans also have a development bank, line, but for the prosperity of the wider economy and Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau, which was set up after society in general. All the evidence shows that an exporting the second world war and operates specifically in Germany business tends to be a successful, sustainable and socially as well as overseas. In Germany, it often enables the aware business. An exporting company tends to employ Mittelstand, or medium-sized companies, to access credit more workers and offer better wages than an equivalent and equity. We do not have an equivalent here. If we are non-exporting company. Companies that export have to build up our middle-ranking companies—the equivalent been shown to be more productive and to invest more in of the Mittelstand—which would probably be the ones research and development, thinking more about the to do most exporting, they need to have access to the long term, and they are anxious to capture and maintain kind of finance that their competitors in Germany can international competitiveness. I want to concentrate on obtain through KfW and the banking system. I therefore that point, because there is a strong link between innovation urge the Minister to consider whether the UK business and exporting. bank, which I welcome, could be developed into the kind of financial institution that KfW so ably represents Export discipline can demonstrate whether a firm or in Germany. a product can move away from the often insular domestic market and navigate the harsh seas of the global That was all I wanted to say. In short, we should marketplace; it will demonstrate how competitive a concentrate on long-term thinking in the UK. If UK business or a product actually is. A business with a organisations are not prepared to buy UK products, desire to export overseas has the discipline and the because they are only thinking about short-term value ambition to develop new products and services that will for money, how can we persuade our overseas customers better serve the new export markets. It will be sensitive that they should buy our very good products? Secondly, and responsive to customer wishes—always the hallmark let us learn from the Germans. They are the best exporters of a successful business. We therefore have the possibility in the world, so if we want to rival them, we have to of a virtuous circle for exporting businesses, whereby look at why they are so successful. they are exposed to new demands, fresh ideas and 373WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 374WH

[Mr Iain Wright] and we would support that. However, as the report by the hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham says, the increased competition, which in turn makes them leaner, Government are expected to fall significantly short of more productive, more outward-looking and better disposed that target—by about £150 billion. Does the Minister to thinking about new product development and improved accept that forecast? Does the doubling of UK exports profitability. We should all encourage that as much as to £1 trillion remain a Government objective, and is it possible. still achievable? Will he take this opportunity to reaffirm In that general context, there is a lot of political or revise the value of UK exports the Government are agreement over the current strategy on trade: we should working towards for 2020? emphasise the need for an export-led recovery; move As has rightly been said several times, the way in attention away, although not entirely, from the low-growth, which UKTI interacts with companies and their products traditional markets of the EU and the developed world; is vital to our success, or otherwise, in boosting exports. and consider the emerging, high-growth areas, by which Companies in every constituency will be at different I do not necessarily mean the ones that are often trotted stages. Some will never even have thought of exporting, out, such as the Brazils, Russias, Indias and Chinas—we and they need to hear—often at a very basic level—of may have missed a trick on that—but the next 11 countries, the real potential benefits for their business. Some will such as the Nigerias, Thailands and Vietnams of this already appreciate the value of exporting and will be world. Those countries—in Africa, the middle east, seriously and actively considering it, but they need to south-east Asia and Latin America—will experience make that first step, so they need practical help with very high growth. Britain has historic links with all making contacts and mitigating risks. Others will be those regions, so we should be exceptionally well placed well versed in exporting, and they will be familiar with, to take advantage of them and to seek deep, long-lasting and confident about, supplying overseas, but they may trade relationships with the growing markets in those need help to identify potentially lucrative new markets countries. and territories. Identifying what stage a company is at However, the key point, and the central charge of the and ensuring that UKTI’s service is meaningful to it at hon. Gentleman’s report, is this: that stage are the hallmarks of whether UKTI is successful “There remains a gulf between the target set, and the tangible in boosting exports. progress made thus far”. The hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham’s An export-led recovery, with a greater proportion of report rightly makes clear the need for UKTI to provide our trade coming from high-growth markets outside the tailored services that are relevant and applicable to EU, simply has not materialised. Last week, the Office businesses at their particular point in the export cycle. Is for National Statistics published data showing that the the Minister therefore confident—this point is raised in UK trade deficit was £3.1 billion in July, compared with the report—that UKTI is proactive enough and has the £1.3 billion the previous month. That is the largest right skill set, processes and individual product lines to trade deficit since October 2012. The value of non-EU achieve the objectives we all share on boosting exports? exports fell last month by £2.2 billion, to £11.8 billion. I want to think about things from the viewpoint of a The Minister will undoubtedly say that one should company in Hartlepool or Shrewsbury with a great not make judgments based on one month’s data, and he product that it wants to export. The hon. Member for would be right. However, the fact is that, based on Wealden (Charles Hendry), who was a great Energy longer-term trends, we have not made the substantial Minister, knows that we are a centre of excellence for progress everybody wants to see in growing our way energy and for oil and gas companies. If a small company towards sustainable recovery through trade. The value in Hartlepool was thinking about supplying the Kazakhstan of exports to non-EU countries is more or less where it oil business, what on earth would be the right way to was two years ago, when the UKTI strategy was launched. help with that? What on earth should the company do We have run a substantial trade deficit for many years— to learn about exporting—especially if, given that it was some Governments have fallen as a result of adverse a small firm, it was juggling many other things? Those balance of trade announcements—and the trade gap in running the company would worry about lack of contacts, the past four or five years has, more or less consistently, possible language barriers, regulatory and taxation problems been about £8 billion. Despite the Government’s rhetoric, in a foreign land, and the fear of not being paid from which the Opposition support, they have essentially halfway around the word. How would UKTI identify failed to change that trade position. As the ONS said of such a company in my constituency or any other UK trade performance, constituency as a potential exporter? How would it get “annual growth has slowed considerably since 2010 and 2011 the astute understanding to know what the business was when growth was seen to accelerate as part of the global recovery about, and provide, at the time it was needed, a bespoke from the financial crisis in 2008 and 2009.” service to help it navigate through the challenges of Given the recent fall in sterling’s value, we could and exporting? should, as the hon. Member for Windsor (Adam Afriyie) The hon. Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham referred said, have had a boost to our exports, as the pound’s fall to skill sets in his report. I do not want to disparage the made our products cheaper to the rest of the world. skills and expertise of UKTI staff. The hon. Member Does the Minister share the disappointment of the for Wealden said that they were lean and thinly spread—if House and the Bank of England over Britain’s trade only I were that lean and thinly spread. However, I want performance? Does he concede that Britain should be to ask the Minister a question on an important aspect doing better on exports than it is? of the issue, which we hear a lot about with respect to In their White Paper and the UKTI strategy, the more general Government support and advice for business. Government announced the objective of doubling British What proportion of UKTI staff have practical, tangible exports to £1 trillion by 2020, which is quite commendable, experience of running a business and exporting? Are 375WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 376WH there staff in a position to offer tailored, relevant advice registering for VAT for the first time, filing a tax return so that firms will respect their opinion, because they or paying business rates. How can we make sure that the have been there, done it and, probably, exported the state can recognise that firm as a potential exporter and T-shirt to prove it? be proactive about outlining UKTI’s offer to it, understanding that the firm has reached a certain stage Communication and dissemination of information in its business life and growth and asking “Have you seems to be a particular weakness. The hon. Gentleman’s thought about overseas markets as the next step?”? Can report cites another report, from the Federation of we nudge that to happen when businesses must interact? Small Businesses, stating that only one fifth of small firms export, and that that rate has not changed since UKTI has a target to contact 50,000 firms annually 2010. That statistic causes me concern, because on that by 2015, which seems to me at once ambitious and far basis the penetration of UKTI’s message to small firms too low. Given current trends, I do not think it is likely has not materialised. to be achieved. The Minister may correct me on the precise, up-to-date figures, but I think that we have The hon. Gentleman’s report also cites the conclusion reached about 32,000 firms, with two years to go. Is the of the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England Minister confident that he will achieve his target, and, if and Wales, of which I am a member, that knowledge of so, on what does he base that confidence? On the other UKTI in the business community is “worrying”. Some hand, if British ambition is to increase and British firms 68% of small and medium-sized firms and—this astonished are to export at the EU average rate of one in four, me—81% of large firms are not familiar with UKTI. UKTI needs to make meaningful contact with about What can be done to address that big weakness? Will 250,000 extra firms, based on the country’s company the Minister take the opportunity—with what I think base of about 4.8 million enterprises. I am interested in would be the full support of the House—to make sure finding out from the Minister how the figure of 50,000 that the export week coming up in early November will was arrived at, and whether UKTI should be stretched be strongly communicated in every constituency and more with respect to its active involvement in seeking media outlet? That would show that Britain is open for out firms. business and the world wants to trade with us, and it would give British-based companies the opportunity to I want to interrogate further what a contact is. Is it a do so. passive, single phone call? Is it saying, “We have a website; please have a look at it”? Is it a visit to the firm, actively delving, and saying, “What are your ambitions? Daniel Kawczynski: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman What do you want to achieve? How can we help you do for giving way. He has hit the nail on the head. I am that?”? The report, as I mentioned, says that the emphasis delighted to have heard a Labour spokesman make is on quantity over quality, and I think that is a fair those comments, and I hope I was right in understanding point. My central question, therefore, is how UKTI that he agrees it would be better for UKTI staff—and provides meaningful engagement and contact with firms, would enhance their credibility—if they had direct previous and how that contact is maintained and deepened over experience of running companies and exporting. One of time. Crucially, instead of contact being reactive and the biggest problems is that historically many people in passive, how are leads and contacts followed up? The UKTI have come from the civil service and have not report is full of examples of a lead or inquiry not being had experience of running small businesses or trying to followed up. I was particularly dismayed to read about a export. Does the hon. Gentleman also agree that those national trade association giving UKTI a list of about staff need a salary structure geared around targets, so 300 members that were export-ready and seeking help that there is an incentive to go the extra mile for with their first step, so that UKTI would pursue them. additional business?

Daniel Kawczynski indicated assent. Mr Wright: I agree with a lot of what the hon. Gentleman says. The Hartlepool company wanting to export its products to the oil sector in Kazakhstan Mr Wright: The hon. Gentleman is nodding as he would respect UKTI if the official could say, “I’ve been recalls what he said in his report, which says that after there; I know exactly what you are going through. four months, no contact had been made by UKTI with These are the problems that I had to overcome when I any of those companies. If that is what is going on, this was running my own businesses, and you may want to country is undoubtedly missing lucrative commercial consider them.” When companies feel that there is export opportunities, so what sort of meaningful relevance, there is immediate buy-in. I shall come on to engagement and follow-up is being carried out? the question of how UKTI staff are remunerated. It is an important point that the hon. Gentleman covered in What work is done after trade delegations? The aftercare his report, but at this stage I would say the emphasis on is the crucial bit to ensure that leads are picked up and quality as opposed to quantity in UKTI is vital and vital relationships maintained. The hon. Member for needs to be attended to. Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) mentioned Germany. France and Germany are masters of maintaining long-term I want to return to the question of how UKTI can be relationships overseas, for the purpose of starting and more meaningful and provide a more bespoke and developing export markets. What are we doing to achieve tailored approach, as well as how the Government can the same? He also talked about financing exports. Many adopt a more co-ordinated approach across Whitehall companies struggle to get the necessary finance to export, and central and local government. I am interested in the whether that is loans to expand production or research Minister’s thoughts on what happens when a firm must new markets, finance to pay for the order, or insurance interact with the state on some formal point such as against bad debts in overseas markets. 377WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 378WH

[Mr Iain Wright] It goes on to say that if it continues,

A report on finance and exports by the House of “The weakness of the English regions could damage the UK’s overall ability to attract FDI, in comparison to countries such as Lords Select Committee on Small and Medium Sized France and Germany, which have much more balanced regional Enterprises said that banks were not interested in helping portfolios.” with export finance, and that they demanded that directors put up their home as security. The report refers to Steel Is the Minister worried about that? Services Direct Ltd, an exporter, which stated that There has been discussion about ensuring that industrial “trying to expand in an overseas market whilst worrying about strategy can have a co-ordinated approach to attracting losing your home would put off most people”. foreign direct investment and exports. I do not want I agree. That is part of a wider context in which bank duplication, but is the Minister worried that with abolition lending to businesses has contracted in 21 of the last of the regional development agencies there seems to be 24 months. I appreciate that UK Export Finance has a real loss in confidence in the regions? We have been introduced new products with the intention of addressing lucky in the north-east and have attracted Hitachi to the issue, but the hon. Member for Stafford is absolutely help with train production, but that started with One right in what he said about scale and penetration when North East. Could it happen again with the loss of the it comes to ensuring that firms have export finance RDAs and their replacement with local enterprise available. partnerships? Will the Minister tell the House how many small and I want to refer to points raised by my right hon. medium-sized firms have benefited from each of the Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill new products—the bond support scheme, the export (Mr Clarke), and by my hon. Friend the Member for working capital scheme and the foreign exchange credit Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), who made a support scheme? What was the result of the review of characteristically passionate speech. He referred to the those products a year after their launch, and what defence and security export business, but I want to variations are being planned? Crucially, will he outline widen that to include the wider export licensing process. what role the business bank will play in encouraging The Minister is obviously aware of reports that surfaced exports when it is finally up and running properly? earlier this month showing that his Department, the What sort of time scale are we talking about, and what, Department for Work and Pensions, granted export if any, new products will be launched? licences for chemicals to Syria in 2012. Those chemicals I keep referring to the hon. Member for Stafford, and could have been used in the manufacture of chemical I do not want to embarrass him by agreeing with him all weapons. Does he accept that there should be a full the time, but he rightly mentioned the link between explanation of why the export of those chemicals was inward investment and exports. In my region of the approved, especially when there were real concerns about north-east, over the past 20 years or so, and certainly the regime before those licences were granted? over the last five years, there has been great work from Nissan, which has produced new developments, become We must make sure that we have absolute confidence ever more productive, and has a focus on exports—some in the export licensing process and can ensure that 85% of Nissan cars made in the north-east are exported. Britain is a world leader in fairness and honour when Nissan is not seen as a foreign company; it is seen as a selling products around the world. Is the Minister looking north-eastern company that is exporting to the rest of again at the process to ensure that we do not sell to the world. The hon. Gentleman’s point about inward regimes such as Assad’s? What is being done in response investment having a virtual loop into export markets is to those concerns? well placed. At a time of rapid and irreversible globalisation, Does the Minister share my concern that we are there are huge opportunities for British export slipping in the rankings when it comes to competitiveness companies. It has already been said that much of this and attracting foreign direct investment? Ernst and country’s historical wealth, whether in Elizabethan or Young’s attractiveness survey this year said: Victorian times, was based on using this country’s “The UK slipped behind Germany…for the first time in new skill, imagination and talent to sell our goods to the projects…In another first, Germany” rest of the world. I passionately believe that in the 21st century, there is greater opportunity than ever now outperforms before for export markets to provide scope for greater “the UK in attracting Sales and marketing investments, a traditional profits for British firms and higher skills and higher area of UK” wages for British workers. strength and leadership. Those are concerns. We must The role of the state is to offer a sustained, long-term, always be vigilant to ensure that we maintain our proactive, tailored and co-ordinated approach to help competitiveness and attractiveness, and Germany is British-based firms to achieve their potential. We are snapping at our heels. What is the Minister doing about missing an opportunity to achieve all that we could at a that? time when other countries—our rivals—are eagerly jumping The report from Ernst and Young also states that on those same opportunities. The report of the hon. investments in England, outside London, were 24% Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham is an honest, below their 2010 level and that it balanced and fair account of where improvements need “appears that the abolition of the RDAs may be starting to to be made to help boost exports. We all share the undermine not only the regions in which they operated, but also sentiments and passion that he has expressed today. I the UK’s ability to sustain its overall leading position for inward hope that the Minister will act on a lot of what the investment.” report says. 379WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 380WH

3.36 pm Mr Iain Wright: I thank the Minister for citing those figures, but am I right in thinking that UKTI’s annual The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills report sets a target for satisfaction levels of 80%, yet it (Matthew Hancock): It is a pleasure to serve under your has consistently failed to achieve that? What active chairmanship, Sir Roger, not least because of the value steps will the Minister take to ensure that it hits its of our debate and the sheer number of interesting targets on customer satisfaction? contributions. I welcome very much the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski) and his report. I had read an Matthew Hancock: It is indeed important to have a electronic copy, but now I have a hard copy to take target for satisfaction, and if three quarters are satisfied away. or very satisfied, that shows we are heading in the right I shall try to respond to all the points that were made, direction, but more can always be done. For instance, but I start by saying that the most significant speech this since 2011, a realignment of UKTI has taken place to afternoon was that of the hon. Member for Hartlepool ensure that it can better serve the needs of UK plc. The (Mr Wright), who demonstrated passionately the strength process has included: the introduction of stronger senior of feeling in favour of bipartisan openness in Great management with private sector experience; new private Britain. As a country, we can be proud that we have a sector delivery of trade services in England, with incentivised political tradition across all major parties of openness contracts, which my hon. Friend the Member for to trade and the value of trade. The argument about the Shrewsbury and Atcham asked for; improving performance benefits of trade—not just financial, but in terms of overseas and strengthening teams in key growth areas, innovation and the improvement of business practices—was such as China and India; and reviewing targets to powerful, and long may that cross-party openness to ensure that they incentivise the behaviour of individuals trade continue. on the ground. The right balance is having strong direct accountability to Ministers, which is appropriate, alongside I agree strongly with the hon. Gentleman about my the right incentives to give individuals on the ground noble Friend Lord Green, who has worked extremely the autonomy to be able to promote trade. hard, travelling much of the time, not only directly to open doors along with the Prime Minister’s trade Several hon. Members mentioned—favourably or ambassadors, two of whom spoke in the debate, but to otherwise—the fact that UKTI reports to two Departments. strengthen UK Trade and Industry as an institution. Its I am a Minister in two Departments, and it is true that it budget was increased in the 2011 and 2012 autumn is necessary to have co-ordination between the two. It statements, which was partly because of a recognition would not be right to remove accountability for UKTI that its effectiveness and efficiency were improving. The from either the Foreign Office or the Department for private sector experience of many of those in UKTI Business, Innovation and Skills, because UKTI is precisely who are promoting trade was raised as an important about the link between business and our international positive point by hon. Members on both sides of the relations. This is about, on the one hand, strengthening Chamber. Some 75% of senior management in UKTI links between UKTI and domestic business, for which have private sector experience, the majority of whom the Business Department is responsible, and, on the arrived in the past 18 months under the leadership of other hand, strengthening links between UKTI and our Lord Green. The whole House can unite in commending diplomatic service, which has happened a great deal his work and that of Nick Baird’s day-to-day leadership over the past two or three years. Both those are valuable of the organisation. and necessary if the service is to perform, so it is therefore right that UKTI reports to a Minister who sits I was delighted to see support in the report for the in both Departments but, of course, it is accountable to direction UKTI is taking. It also contained a recognition one Minister—my noble Friend in the other place—so of some improvements, although I have noted the criticisms, there is a clear line of sight for ministerial accountability. which I shall try to deal with as well. Part of the question is about the need for scrutiny of, and transparency Several hon. Members talked about the links between in, UKTI. I should tell hon. Members that there were UKTI and the Department for International Development. reports from the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee UKTI has an aid-funded business service that works in 2011 and 2012 and a Lords Select Committee report with DFID to try to ensure that opportunities for in 2013, while the UKTI chief executive will appear procurement through DFID, not least from SMEs, are before the Public Accounts Committee on 6 November. valuable. UKTI holds seminars with businesses, including I am sure that he will very much enjoy his trip to SMEs, and it will hold another seminar in November to Shrewsbury on 5 November, perhaps spending the time ensure that SMEs and domestic British companies have ensuring that he is across all the questions that he might the opportunity to make the most of procurement be asked and listening to the comments of my hon. through DFID, which these days, of course, bears the Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham. Those Union Jack. reports demonstrate the intensity of the parliamentary My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy scrutiny that has been conducted. Lefroy) talked about the importance of inward investment It is worth airing some of the evidence about UKTI’s and the business bank. It is vital to ensure that finance performance. According to an independent organisation is available for exports, and funding for lending and that reviews UKTI’s performance quarterly, three quarters strengthening the domestic private banking system are of the 4,000 UKTI service users who were surveyed important parts of that. We are also seeing the growth were either satisfied or very satisfied, while fewer than of challenger banks, which are increasingly providing 10% were dissatisfied. From those who use UKTI, the business finance. We will, of course, have the first ever results are pretty strong but, of course, 10% dissatisfied British business bank, which is being set up precisely to is still too many, although I hope that we can agree that look at the sorts of investments that he talked about. It it is a good baseline from which to improve. is right that the British business bank does not take 381WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 382WH

[Matthew Hancock] was forecast in 2010 on the Government’s domestic policies and then complain that growth in exports has direct instruction from Ministers for each loan because, not been as strong as we would have liked. In the past quite properly, they have to be made on a commercial three years, there has been a massive crisis in the eurozone; basis. I do not know whether he has been watching TV.One of the Government’s arguments has been that that has had Jeremy Lefroy: Will my hon. Friend examine the a negative impact on the British economy. That argument relationship between UK Export Finance and the is supported by a huge range of independent and commercial banks? My constituents have said that some international experts. commercial banks—not all but some, but including It is great to hear a Labour Front Bencher come to very large ones—do not seem to be interested in promoting his senses and make the argument that, partly owing to export finance and are unaware of the new products the eurozone, export performance has unfortunately that are available. As the hon. Member for Hartlepool not been as impressive as we had hoped and that that (Mr Wright) said, they are not interested in exports at has had a dampening impact on the UK economy. I will all. Will the Minister challenge the major UK banks to report back that the Labour party seems to be getting say what they are doing to promote exports? the message that that has been one of the main problems, as was set out in reports by the Office for Budget Matthew Hancock: I can go one step further because Responsibility, the OECD and other organisations. That we have already been raising those challenges with UK is absolutely terrific. banks to ensure that the facilities on offer are better Exports to India have risen 13% on the year and integrated into their services. My hon. Friend will also exports to non-EU countries rose by just over one fifth know that the GREAT campaign to which many hon. between 2010 and 2012. The move has been gradual, Members referred, which brings together the promotion but for the first time in my adult life, exports to non-EU of UK export under one strong brand, is being piloted countries have become bigger than exports to non-EU domestically in the north-east of England to promote countries. It shows the importance of rebalancing export by UK companies in addition to Britain overseas, trade institutions such as UKTI around the world, in as has been the case hitherto. The promotion of the the EU as well as outside it. different Government schemes available for British-based businesses will be brought together under that brand in Mr Iain Wright: The Minister selectively quoted the the pilot, which I hope is successful and can be rolled growth in non-EU exports between 2010 and 2012, but out further, to do exactly what he talks about. he will recall that I mentioned the £2.2 billion drop in Regarding the broad discussion about the recognition non-EU exports last month. Given sterling’s performance of UKTI, I strongly agree that it is important to ensure and declining value, how does he explain that and what that every business, as appropriate, knows about UKTI is he going to do about it? and its services. We are doing an awful lot to try to make Matthew Hancock: We will pursue the strategy on that happen, not least through local engagement. More which we have set out, which is ensuring that the UK than 100 constituency seminars have been put on by economy is strong at home by dealing with our debts, UKTI with local MPs, serving about 150 constituencies. making it more competitive, doing everything that we A seminar in my constituency was very well attended can to win what we have called the global race and and has led to increased contacts between UKTI and ensuring that UKTI plays its part, not least by delivering local businesses. If any Member wants UKTI to come a UKTI budget increase over the past couple of years, to their constituency, we can look at that, because I so that it can reach the target of doubling exports to think that we have been able to meet every request that £1 trillion, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned. has been made. Such events mean that UKTI, with the help of the local MP, can reach businesses that it has The Government’s ambition of doubling exports to not yet reached. I am sure that the hon. Member for £1 trillion by 2020 also involves getting 100,000 more Hartlepool knows of many businesses in Hartlepool, so UK companies exporting. The hon. Gentleman asked that is the sort of thing that we can put on for MPs of how we are doing on that. As he said I would say, the all types. monthly figures fluctuate, but UKTI is on track to achieve its target of supporting 32,000 businesses for the 2012-13 financial year. Some 90% of those 32,000 Daniel Kawczynski: To support my hon. Friend on businesses are small and medium-sized enterprises. That that point, we invited Paul Noon, the regional director support has helped generate additional sales of more for UKTI from the west midlands, to come to Shrewsbury, than £33 billion. I would say that that is money well and we had about 25 local businesses there. The follow-up spent. from the conference has been extremely good and the event has led to exports, so I thank the Minister for My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard that. Graham), who is no longer in his place, discussed the importance of encouraging small businesses to export. He particularly mentioned chambers of commerce and Matthew Hancock: Well, there you are. It sounds as other business groups. We are piloting the use of chambers though it works in practice in Shrewsbury as well as in of commerce; as non-governmental organisations, they Haverhill, and I am sure that there are other parts of can play a different role and fill a niche. There are the country to which it can also reach. 20 pilots, including in Brazil, India, Hong Kong, Russia There was a brief discussion about trade figures. I and Singapore, using chambers of commerce as well as gently point out to the hon. Member for Hartlepool UKTI. He also mentioned one of my personal passions: that the Opposition cannot have it both ways. They Education UK—a specific unit within UKTI to help cannot blame the fact that growth has been slower than our education exports. 383WH UK Trade & Investment12 SEPTEMBER 2013 UK Trade & Investment 384WH

I will also come to the point about the link with the debate. Thank you, Sir Roger, for your chairmanship. I British Council. My hon. Friend mentioned the West hope that all those who read the report of the debate Kowloon cultural district project, which has been supported will notice that we are a country that is very much open by both UKTI and the British Council working together. for business. That is an example of those two organisations working collaboratively to very good effect. Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair): Mr Kawczynski, do you The good news on languages is that, although entries wish to exercise your right of reply? to A-level were down, entries to GCSE rose sharply. I hope that after a long period of decline, the increase in 3.59 pm GCSE entries this year shows that people in English Daniel Kawczynski: Yes; thank you, Sir Roger. I would schools who take languages are coming through the like to thank all hon. Members who participated in the pipeline. Let us hope that that is an early indicator of debate and to thank Members for referring to the better things to come. report that my office and I put together during the past The hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) 12 months. I place on the record my thanks to Mr Justin asked about defence exports. Of course, as he said, the King, my American intern, who has assisted me during end user certificate system has been in place for a long the past 12 months by arranging all the interviews with time—more than 20 years—and the Government have British companies and helping to put the report together. confidence in the export licensing system, which we I echo hon. Members’ best wishes to Lord Green, think is thorough and robust enough to address human who is going into retirement. When he was first appointed rights issues that might arise from individual sales to to his position, he came to address Members of Parliament. individual countries. Any application for an export I remember attending that first event and only five MPs licence is considered against consolidated criteria in the turned up—five out of 650. I very much hope that when light of circumstances in that country. Ian Livingston, who recently became a peer in the other That brings me to the point raised by the hon. Member place, takes on the role and we welcome him to the for Hartlepool about exports to Syria specifically. He House of Commons—I shall certainly be seeking an mentioned two licences issued in 2012. I can confirm early meeting with him—we can encourage more than that those licences were never used to export chemicals five MPs to attend. and were revoked under the new EU sanctions. I hope I pay tribute to Mr Nick Baird and his team for the that that addresses his question. work that they do at UKTI. However, I will reiterate, of course, my intention to campaign on this issue as long Jeremy Corbyn: The point that I made was that the as the United Kingdom does not match its status—its FCO’s website expresses serious human rights concerns ranking—as the fifth largest economy in the world. about regimes to which a large number of British arms Until we reach the same ranking for exports, more exports are approved by the Department for Business, needs to be done in scrutinising UKTI. Innovation and Skills. I particularly draw attention to I agree very much with the message stated by my hon. Bahrain, but also to the whole operation of the defence Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy): we and security equipment international exhibition, which can learn a great deal from Germany. We are always in is on at the moment. A Russian company there that has awe of how that country seems to be able to export far been supplying arms to Syria is openly parading its more than any other member of the European Union. wares at the exhibition, which is subsidised by the We have a great deal to learn from how the Germans British Government. We need a lot more transparency do it. about the operation of the defence services organisation and what eventually happens to those weapons. When We must redouble our efforts to export more. The people are assaulted by anti-personnel weapons supplied reason why I am so passionate about exports is that by Britain, they do not feel very benign towards this they create wealth for the whole country. Only countries country. that are really able to export, such as Germany and Singapore, can really generate the wealth that all Members Matthew Hancock: As I said, any application for an genuinely want to see, so that more money can be spent export licence is considered against the criteria, which on public services. have been in place for some time, in the light of I am grateful to the Minister for taking an interest. It circumstances in that country and depending on the is important that we scrutinise UKTI. I have referred to products’ end use. The system has been supported by various mechanisms that I would like to be set up in Governments of all three major parties. In the specific Parliament, but I am sure that he will agree that we need case of Syria, which has been raised as a concern, no to keep up the scrutiny, because by doing this job, we chemicals were exported under that licence. I think that are playing our part in ensuring that SMEs and our that addresses the point. constituents get to hear about UKTI and its work. I am grateful for the opportunity to have this wide- Through these debates, in our own small way, we can ranging debate. I am looking forward to working with try to encourage entrepreneurs in our constituencies to my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham, make use of this vital resource. Thank you very much, to ensure that we can push UKTI even further. I think Sir Roger. that the overwhelming support for the direction of Question put and agreed to. travel within UKTI and, at a higher level, the overwhelming support for UK trade openness and the ability to trade 4.2 pm with the whole world will have been noted clearly in this Sitting adjourned.

51WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 52WS Written Statements TREASURY

Thursday 12 September 2013 City Deal

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (): BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Following the successful completion of the first wave of city deals in July 2012 with the “core cities”, the Government Royal Mail committed to work with a further 20 cities and their wider areas to negotiate a second wave of city deals in October 2012. The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and These cities—the next 14 largest cities and the six Skills (Vince Cable): On 10 July, I laid a report in cities with the highest population growth—are in the Parliament and made a statement, Official Report, column process of negotiating the devolution of specific powers, 361, setting out the Government’s plans to float Royal resources and responsibilities required to deliver locally- Mail shares on the London Stock Exchange via an determined economic priorities. initial public offering (IPO) during this financial year. Over recent months I have been in negotiation with Today, the Government have made a formal intention Preston city council, South Ribble borough council, to float announcement for listing Royal Mail on the Lancashire county council and the Lancashire local premium segment of the official list and the main enterprise partnership and I am pleased to inform the market of the London Stock Exchange. House that the following proposals from Preston, South Shares will be made available to institutions, members Ribble and Lancashire will take effect as the Preston, of the public—through intermediaries or direct application South Ribble and Lancashire city deal, the first of the to Government—and 10% of the shares will be allocated second wave of city deals. to eligible employees free of charge through an employee The Preston, South Ribble and Lancashire city deal share scheme. Government are delivering on the will help to ensure that the city deal area continues to commitment to employees that Parliament made two grow by addressing strategic transport infrastructure years ago, and this will be the largest employee share and development challenges to deliver new jobs and scheme of any major privatisation for almost 30 years. housing across the city deal area. Our announcement provides additional detail about Over a 10-year period the local enterprise partnership the retail offer and the employee priority offer further assesses that the deal will support: to my July report. It also highlights Royal Mail’s More than 20,000 net new private sector jobs, including performance, strengths and strategies. 5,000 in the Lancashire enterprise zone; The sale will be the final stage of the Government’s 17,420 new homes; and reforms of the postal sector which are designed to £2.3 billion in leveraged commercial investment. ensure the maintenance of the universal postal service—the The key proposal of the city deal is: six day a week, one price goes anywhere service that we have enshrined in legislation. Changes to the universal The City Deal Infrastructure Delivery Programme service’s minimum requirements, which include free services The city deal infrastructure delivery programme will for the blind and services to urban and rural areas alike, deliver the critical infrastructure required to enable the can only be changed by affirmative resolutions in both full development of significant housing and commercial Houses of Parliament. Moreover, any changes to the development schemes. This includes four major new uniform nature of the service would require new primary roads, a motorway junction, the preparatory works for legislation. a new Ribble crossing bridge and the necessary local We have already relieved Royal Mail of its historic community infrastructure, such as new schools, health pension deficit and put in place a new regulatory regime facilities, open spaces and district centre improvements with greater protections for the universal postal service. required to support the scale of such ambitious A sale will give Royal Mail real commercial freedom development. and enable it future access to private sector capital so To achieve this and as a result of significant local that it can invest in the business, innovate and act investment, the Government have agreed to: quickly to take advantage of new opportunities such as 10-Year Transport Majors Allocation—Following those that exist in the e-fulfilment market. prioritisation of transport projects by Transport for The Post Office is separate from Royal Mail plc and is Lancashire (TfL) the Government will give TfL a six-year not for sale. This Government are committed to the confirmed allocation and a four-year indicative allocation Post Office’s sustainable future and we have committed confirming the ten-year investment profile. to no programme of Post Office closures. Government Stewardship Board—The homes and communities agency are providing funding of £1.34 billion over four years to will also invest in the deal through the creation of a city maintain a network of at least 11,500 branches and deal stewardship board. The city deal stewardship board ensure that 90% of the population live within one mile will be responsible for guiding the sale of assets belonging of a Post Office outlet. This is the largest investment in to the HCA and local partners for inclusion within an the Post Office’s history and will also enable the infrastructure delivery programme. Government will modernisation of up to 6,000 branches. transfer into the infrastructure delivery programme the I have placed a copy of the intention to float proceeds from the sale of assets placed in the stewardship announcement in the Libraries of both Houses. board and allow the infrastructure delivery programme 53WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 54WS to retain any uplift in HCA land values over and above EDUCATION the book value of £50.75 million, up to a maximum of £37 million. Education Reform (Schools) The City Deal Investment Fund The Lancashire county pension fund’s agreement to allocate £100 million for investment in commercial schemes The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): in the city deal area is a core city deal offer. The On 8 July 2013, I launched a statutory one-month Lancashire pension fund committee has agreed to approve consultation seeking representations on the draft legislative a new local allocation of £150 million for Lancashire— order—The Education (National Curriculum) (Attainment approximately 3% of the £5 billion fund—to be funded Targets and Programmes of Study) (England) Order through a re-allocation of existing global equity allocation. 2013—required to bring the new national curriculum This allocation is targeted at the acquisition of real into effect from September 2014. income generating assets in Lancashire, with a target of The consultation was accompanied by the publication £100 million within the city deal area and £50 million of final proposals for the new national curriculum for across the rest of Lancashire. all subjects and key stages (except for key stage 4 English, mathematics and science). A further consultation on the programmes of study for key stage 4 English, mathematics and science will follow, in line with the Banking Act 2009 Reporting timetable for the reform of GCSE qualifications. Officials in the Department for Education have received 750 responses to the consultation which have been The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Greg Clark): carefully analysed. Yesterday we published a summary The Treasury has laid before the House of Commons a of the responses received. report required under section 231 of the Banking Act The new national curriculum that we published yesterday 2009 covering the period from 1 October 2012 to 31 March has been developed with due regard to the views of 2013. Copies of the document are available in the Vote subject experts and teachers and to the findings Office and the Printed Paper Office. of international best practice comparisons. In response to representations made during the recent consultation period, changes have been made to improve clarity, precision and consistency of the content. The new national curriculum will provide a rigorous CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT basis for teaching, a benchmark for all schools to improve their performance, and will give children and parents a better guarantee that every student will acquire the knowledge and skills to succeed in the modern world. It Historic Royal Palaces (Borrowing Facility) has been significantly slimmed down and will free up teachers to use their professional judgment to design curricula that meet the needs of their pupils. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, This new national curriculum represents a clear step Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): The departmental forward for schools, ensuring that all children have the minute laid today is in respect of an extension to the opportunity to acquire a core of essential knowledge in period whereby Government act as guarantor on behalf key subjects. It embodies rigour, high standards and of historic royal palaces (HRP) for a borrowing facility will create coherence in what is taught in schools. It sets of up to £4 million to meet short-term cash flow out expectations for children that match the curricula requirements. used in the world’s most successful school systems. The renewed guarantee will be available until 30 September The majority of the new national curriculum will 2016 and HRP will only enter into borrowing facilities come into force from September 2014, so schools will at such times and within such monetary limits as the now have a year to prepare to teach it. From September Department shall agree. 2015, the new national curriculum for English, mathematics and science will come into force for years 2 and 6; The guarantee provides a safeguard protecting HRP’s English, mathematics and science for key stage 4 will be business from a sudden and serious decline in economic phased in from September 2015. conditions affecting HRP’s admissions income until the savings from their planned rationalisation measures Copies of the new national curriculum have been could come through, and would only be used in extreme placed in the Library of the House. circumstances. The guarantee has been in place since 2002 and it has never yet been called upon. Historic Royal Palaces is a charity established by ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE royal charter. By virtue of a contract entered into on 1 April 1998, it carries out the functions of the Secretary Radioactive Waste (Site Selection) of State for Culture, Media and Sport under section 21 of the Crown Lands Act 1851 of managing the unoccupied royal palaces. The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change I am arranging for the document to be placed in the (Mr Edward Davey): I am today launching a public Libraries of both Houses. consultation on the site selection aspects of the managing 55WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 56WS radioactive waste safely (MRWS) programme. The the position agreed by all member states on Syria, can consultation follows a call for evidence earlier in the be found at: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms year. data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/138691.pdf. As I confirmed in my statement in January this year, The meeting was structured around three themes: the Government remain wholly committed to geological common security and defence policy (CSDP) and the disposal as the right policy for the long-term, safe and December 2013 European Council discussion on defence; secure management of higher-activity radioactive waste, eastern partnership; and the southern neighbourhood. and continues to favour a site selection process based on Commissioners Füle (enlargement and european working in partnership with interested local communities. neighbourhood policy) and Georgieva (international This approach is consistent with similar geological disposal co-operation, humanitarian aid and crisis response) programmes that are ongoing in other countries. were in attendance for some of the discussions, as were The construction of a geological disposal facility is a US Secretary of State John Kerry, and Elmar Brok multi-billion pound infrastructure initiative, which will MEP, chairman of the European Parliament’s Committee directly create hundreds of jobs for many decades, with on Foreign Affairs. even more during peak construction periods. This would have a transformative effect on the economy of the area CSDP/December European Council discussion on Defence selected for the site, stimulating local businesses, supply Ministers welcomed Baroness Ashton’s draft interim chains, and providing skilled jobs and training opportunities. report on proposals for the December Council. There Since the decisions of the local authorities in Cumbria was broad support for improved CSDP co-ordination in January, which brought the existing MRWS site with international actors, especially NATO, the US and selection process in west Cumbria to an end, my the UN, with some Ministers calling for greater engagement Department has been reviewing the site selection aspects with eastern partners, and Turkey.Ministers also considered of the MRWS programme in order to identify any areas how the EU could develop its role in response to new where improvements could possibly be made. Our public challenges, including cyber security, energy security, call for evidence closed in June, and the evidence obtained and maritime security. from this, as well as information gathered from the The Foreign Secretary said that the December European direct engagement with stakeholders and international Council was a real opportunity to signal how the EU bodies, has informed the proposals in the consultation can contribute to global security, to agree practical document that I am publishing today. improvements to CSDP and to ensure that European The consultation will run for three months, and will partners had the capabilities both civilian and military include a series of deliberative events nationally with to act, whether through the EU or NATO. The EU’s members of the public and interested parties. My officials comparative strength was the ability to deploy a spectrum are of course happy to discuss any aspects of the wider of political, military and civilian tools as part of a MRWS programme, and how the current consultation comprehensive approach to conflict prevention, crisis proposals would sit within the wider policy framework, management and stabilisation. Baroness Ashton concluded with interested parties. by saying that her final report would aim to build a Following our analysis of the responses to the consensual approach. consultation, we intend to re-launch the MRWS site Eastern Partnership selection process in 2014. Baroness Ashton argued that the Vilnius summit The consultation covers England, Wales and Northern should show partners the real value in their relationship Ireland—and is being issued jointly with the Welsh with the EU. Foreign Ministers discussed latest Government and Northern Ireland Executive—but not developments in the region, including progress of reforms Scotland, which has a different policy for the long-term and eastern partners’ relationships with Russia. management of higher-activity radioactive waste. The Foreign Secretary emphasised the importance of keeping a focus on judicial reform and tackling corruption FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE in Ukraine. Baroness Ashton concluded by encouraging member states to keep up their strong support for EU Foreign Ministers Meeting reform. Southern Neighbourhood: MEPP The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): My Secretary Kerry briefed EU Foreign Ministers on the right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and middle east peace process (MEPP) and emphasised that Commonwealth Affairs attended the informal Foreign the US could not succeed without EU support. He Ministers meeting on 6 and 7 September in Vilnius, noted that, while the cost of failure would be great, Lithuania. success would open up political and economic benefits in the wider region. Ministers reiterated their strong The informal format of the Gymnich allows EU backing for Secretary Kerry’s efforts. Secretary Kerry Foreign Ministers to engage in a free-ranging discussion also raised implementation of recent guidelines on the on a number of issues. In contrast to arrangements in eligibility of Israeli entities for EU funding. the Foreign Affairs Council (FAC), Ministers do not agree any formal written conclusions. The next FAC is Southern Neighbourhood: Syria due to be held on 21 October. Ministers considered the issue of Syria, including The Gymnich was chaired by the High Representative possible military action. The Foreign Secretary stated of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security that the evidence on regime culpability was clear, and Policy, Baroness Ashton of Upholland. Her remarks that the EU should support an early response which following the meeting, and the statement issued reflecting deterred further use, avoid being prescriptive on the UN 57WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 58WS process, push the political track, and step up support In summary, this response sets out the overall ambition for the humanitarian effort in line with the Prime Minister’s and the early actions that will enable better information initiative launched at the G20. sharing to support our health and our care services to Ministers agreed a statement to be issued by Baroness meet our needs and expectations, for now and the Ashton (see above link) which: condemns in the strongest future. terms the 21 August attack as a war crime and a crime “Information: To share or not to share? The Information against humanity; notes “strong evidence” of regime Governance Review” and “Information: To Share or responsibility; calls for a “clear and strong response”; not to share, Government Response to the Caldicott underscores the need to address the Syrian crisis through Review” have been placed in the Library. Copies are the UN process, welcomes Hollande’s decision to await available to hon. Members from the Vote Office and to the inspectors’ report, and calls on the UN Security noble Lords from the Printed Paper Office. Council to fulfil its responsibilities; notes the individual responsibility of perpetrators before the International Criminal Court; calls for the swift convening of the University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay Trust Geneva II peace conference; and restates the EU’s support for humanitarian assistance. At his press conference afterwards Secretary Kerry said he was very grateful for The Secretary of State for Health (Mr ): this “strong statement”. University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay Trust (UHMBT) has been the subject of scrutiny for a number of years, following the high number of serious untoward incidents in its maternity and neonatal services. The families of HEALTH those who were harmed or died under the care of the trust have persistently and courageously sought a full and independent investigation into the circumstances Information Sharing (Caldicott Review) surrounding these deaths. I am today announcing to the House the terms of reference for the independent investigation into the management, delivery and outcomes The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Jeremy Hunt): of care provided by the maternity and neonatal services Today I am publishing the Government’s response to of UHMBT from January 2004 to June 2013, under the Dame Fiona Caldicott’s review of information sharing. chairmanship of Dr Bill Kirkup CBE. Dr Kirkup is a This review was recommended by the Future Forum on former associate medical director at the Department of information which reported in January 2012. Health, and served on the Hillsborough independent panel. I am grateful to Dame Fiona and her panel and to the many people who provided valuable input into her The investigation will primarily focus on the service review. Building on the wealth of experience, viewpoints provided by the trust, and the response of the trust to and insights gained through the review and the preceding shortcomings previously identified. It will look at evidence NHS Future Forum’s work, this document sets out the relating to organisations external to the trust where this overall ambition and actions to transform how our will help shed light on the tragic events that occurred, health and our care services use and share information and assist in producing recommendations for preventing to the benefit of patients and service users. such incidences in the future. The principle concern of this investigation is getting the answers the families have For citizens, patients and users of care services, this requested. Answers are required about what went so response sets out how a new approach to information desperately wrong with the care they received, and the sharing across health and care can support more joined steps the trust must take to ensure no other families up, safer, better care for us. Dame Fiona’s review and suffer in the future. our response look at actions for clinicians and other care professionals, managers, commissioners, councillors, This is not an investigation into the regulatory and researchers, and many others. supervisory systems of the NHS, as these issues have only recently been examined by the second Mid There are four key themes in the response: Staffordshire inquiry, and the Department of Health patient and citizen rights—they should have confidence in will publish its full response in due course. Nor is it a how their information is handled through knowing how it is public inquiry as the requirements for public evidence used and shared and how to object and through having sessions are not considered suitable for the privacy and access to their electronic care records; tact with which this investigation must be undertaken. improving sharing for direct care—appropriate and legal To ensure that the investigation will meet the requirements data sharing to drive integrated, joined-up, person-centred and safer care for people (where information governance of openness and transparency, all of its sessions will be rules have, in the past, been seen as a barrier); open to family members. improving sharing for other purposes—the importance of The investigation is expected to report to me by next information for research, commissioning and public health summer and a copy of the full terms of reference has and improving practice in this area, recognising this can only been placed in the Library of the House. Copies are be done effectively if people are given a say in how information available to hon. Members from the Vote Office and to about them is used; and noble Lords from the Printed Paper Office. better protection for information boards and other leadership Dr Kirkup plans to issue a method statement for the groups will take responsibility for good information practices in their organisations, professionals will be consistent in the investigation in October 2013. I am grateful to him and rules they apply and front-line staff will have improved the families for their significant contribution to the training and education on information sharing and confidential design of this investigation process. I sincerely hope information. that it will provide them with the answers that they seek. 59WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 60WS

HOME DEPARTMENT The Commission signed the protocol on behalf of the community in 2001 with the intention of concluding it once the articles they negotiated had been enshrined in Alcohol Licensing Consultation European law. This has been primarily achieved through amendments to the existing weapons directive 91/477 on the acquisition and possession of weapons and the The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr Jeremy adoption of regulation 258/2012 to combat illicit arms Browne): A consultation on enabling targeted, local trafficking through improved tracing and control of alternatives to personal licences to sell alcohol has been exports of civilian arms from the EU. These changes launched today. have already been transposed into UK legislation. The Government consider that it is in the UK’s The system of personal licences is intended to ensure interest to opt into the proposal to conclude the protocol that alcohol is sold responsibly. At present, all alcohol on behalf of the EU. The aims of the protocol are sales must be authorised by a personal licence holder. broadly welcome and are consistent with current EU Personal licence holders must have completed training policies on measures to counter transnational crimes, to on the risks alcohol can present if handled irresponsibly. strengthen the fight against the illicit trafficking of They must also notify licensing authorities if they commit firearms and to reduce the spread and proliferation any offence which suggests they may be unsuitable as a of small arms around the world. manager at licensed premises. Extensive discussions with partners in the police, Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme/Sector-based local government and the licensed trade during the Scheme recent alcohol strategy consultation suggested that this system may not always be the most targeted and proportionate way to ensure alcohol is sold responsibly. The Minister for Immigration (Mr Mark Harper): For example, all premises—from the riskiest to the The seasonal agricultural workers scheme (SAWS) allows quietest—must comply with the system regardless of fruit and vegetable growers to employ migrant workers whether it is locally appropriate or not. As a result, the from Bulgaria and Romania as seasonal workers for up consultation published today proposes enabling targeted, to six months at a time. It will close, as planned, at the local alternatives to personal licences through locally end of 2013. The Government do not intend to open applied conditions to premises licences. We have estimated any new SAWS for workers from outside the European that this proposal could save businesses, including small economic area (EEA) as our view is that, at a time of and medium enterprises, some £10 million a year if unemployment in the UK and the European Union taken forward, while keeping a focus on measures to there should be sufficient workers from within those tackle crime and disorder at licensed premises. labour markets to meet the needs of the horticultural This consultation is an opportunity for licensing industry.The agricultural technologies strategy will support authorities, the licensed trade, police officers and the innovation by agricultural businesses, which will also general public to share their views on this proposal. In help to offset future impacts. particular, the Government are seeking views on whether Currently, there is an annual quota of 21,250 SAWS it would cut costs for businesses and maintain appropriate participants. From 1 January 2014, when the transitional safeguards against crime and disorder at licensed premises. labour market controls on Bulgarian and Romanian (EU2) nationals are lifted, growers will have unrestricted A copy of this consultation will be placed in the access to EU2 workers. Since the controls on the EU8 Library of the House and it will also be available on the (the member states that acceded to the European Union Home Office website. in 2004) workers were lifted, those workers have continued to form the core of the seasonal agricultural workforce. At present, UK growers recruit about one third of their UN Firearms Protocol seasonal workers from the EU2, and about one half from the EU8. Seasonal agricultural work can pay good wages and the sector should be able to attract and retain The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian UK and EEA workers. Green): The UK has opted into the draft Council decision Our migration policy is to allow only highly skilled to approve, on behalf of the EU, the UN firearms workers from outside the EEA, with an annual limit of protocol against the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking 20,700 workers. Unskilled and low-skilled labour needs in firearms, their parts and components and ammunition. should be satisfied from within the expanded EEA The protocol supplements the United Nations convention labour market. The SAWS was previously open to against transnational organised crime. non-EEA nationals but was restricted in 2007 to EU2 The protocol creates a legal regime for the transnational nationals, consistent with an intention to phase it out as movement of firearms and contains practical measures the EEA labour market expanded. That remains the designed to assist law enforcement by enhancing Government’s position. We do not think that the international co-operation and promoting greater characteristics of the horticultural sector, such as its transparency in the legal transfer of firearms. The seasonality and dependence on readily available workers Commission was mandated by the EU to negotiate six to be deployed at short notice, are so different from of the articles in relation to: record keeping; marking of those in other employment sectors as to merit special firearms; deactivation of firearms; general requirements treatment from a migration policy perspective. for export, import and transit licensing or authorisation The independent Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) systems; effective security of imports and exports; and reviewed the impact of the closure of the SAWS on the brokering activities. horticulture sector earlier this year. They concluded 61WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 62WS that there was unlikely to be an impact on labour supply Two individuals were charged in relation to an offence in the short term, although this might change in the under section 23 of the Act (contravening a measure longer term. They noted, however, that there is a wide specified in a TPIM notice without reasonable excuse) range of uncertainty around the effects on migration during the period. flows to the UK of ending restrictions on labour market Section 16 of the Act provides rights of appeal in access for EU2 nationals. The MAC was also clear that relation to decisions taken by the Secretary of State a replacement SAWS would amount to preferential under the Act. No appeals were lodged under section 16 treatment for horticulture. during the reporting period. One judgment was handed The Government recognise that the SAWS has for down by the High Court in relation to an appeal under many years provided an efficient supply of labour for section 16 of the Act, lodged in a previous quarter. In the horticultural sector. The Department for Work and Secretary of State for the Home Department v BF [2013] Pensions has been working with JobCentre Plus, Lantra EWHC 843 (Admin), handed down on 30 July 2013, (the sector skills council), the National Farmers’ Union the High Court upheld the Secretary of State’s decision and others, including growers and horticultural recruitment to extend BF’s TPIM notice and all the measures. This firms, to help unemployed UK residents into horticultural judgment is available at: http://www.bailii.org/. work through training and guaranteed interviews. A The TPIM review group (TRG) keeps every TPIM pilot scheme to encourage unemployed UK residents to notice under regular and formal review. The TRG has apply for, train and secure jobs on arable farms has met twice during this reporting period. shown encouraging results with a high proportion of participants going on to secure employment in the sector. We want to build on this and other innovative approaches. The Government, including the Department for the Environment Food and Rural Affairs, the NORTHERN IRELAND Department for Work and Pensions and the Department for Communities and Local Government, look forward to working with the sector to monitor and address the issues, and will keep the situation under review. Omagh Bomb (Inquiry) The Government have also decided they will not replace the sector-based scheme which operates in the food processing sector when this closes at the end of the year. The scheme is not heavily used and the MAC The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa concluded closure was unlikely to have any negative Villiers): After consultation and careful consideration, I effects on the sector’s ability to meet its labour needs. have decided not to instigate a public inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the bombing in Omagh on 15 August 1998. This morning, I informed the Omagh Support and Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Self Help Group of my decision. This group represents a number of survivors and victims’ families and they had called for a full, cross-border public inquiry into The Secretary of State for the Home Department this atrocity. (Mrs Theresa May): Section 19(1) of the Terrorism I considered this matter carefully. I consulted a range Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011 (the of people including survivors, families of those killed in Act) requires the Secretary of State to report to Parliament the bomb and other interested parties. Some of them as soon as reasonably practicable after the end of every supported an inquiry, but many did not. relevant three-month period on the exercise of her These views were weighed against other factors, including TPIM powers under the Act during that period. the significant number of inquiries that have been held The level of information provided will always be already on the Omagh bomb and the investigation subject to slight variations based on operational advice. currently underway by the Office of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. TPIM notices in force (as of 31 August 2013) 9 I do not believe there are sufficient grounds to justify TPIM notices in respect of British citizens (as of 8 31 August 2013) a further review or inquiry above and beyond those that TPIM notices extended (during the reporting 0 have already taken place or are ongoing. The current period) investigation by the Office of the Police Ombudsman TPIM notices revoked (during the reporting 0 for Northern Ireland is the best way to address any period) outstanding issues relating to the police investigation of TPIM notices received (during the reporting 1 the Omagh attack. period) The Government do not believe that selecting a further Variations made to measures specified in TPIM 6 notices (during the reporting period) series of cases for public inquiries is the best way to deal Applications to vary measures specified in TPIM 1 with the past in Northern Ireland. notices refused (during the reporting period) I express my sincere sympathies to those who survived the Omagh attack and my condolences to the families During the reporting period one TPIM notice that of the 29 people who died. I hope that the ongoing had been revoked in a previous quarter was revived police investigation will ultimately bring to justice those upon the subject’s release from prison. who committed this horrific crime. 63WS Written Statements12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Statements 64WS

TRANSPORT The proposals also include a long-term hardship scheme for owner-occupiers who have strong personal reasons to move but cannot do so, other than at a HS2 significant loss, because of HS2. This scheme would have no defined geographical boundary. In rural areas, we have outlined two potential options The Minister of State, Department for Transport which would provide further assistance. One option is (Mr Simon Burns): The Department for Transport is for the Government to issue property bonds, a transferable today beginning a period of public consultation on guarantee that the Government would act as the buyer long-term property compensation measures for phase 1 of last resort for those living close to the phase 1 route. of HS2. We are also seeking the public’s views on a voluntary HS2 is set to become a vital part of Britain’s purchase scheme for owner-occupied properties within infrastructure. This new high-speed line will open up 120 metres of the phase 1 route. opportunities for the UK that we have not seen in We are committed to fairly compensating those who generations. Its scope to transform this country is enormous, are affected and we want to hear people’s views on the bringing our cities closer together and re-shaping the generous and comprehensive measures we have set out. economic geography of this country. By supplementing the measures that are already available Although HS2 will benefit the whole country, the through the compensation code, these proposals go Government understand the impact that these proposals significantly above and beyond what is required under have on property owners affected by the route. We have statute. Owner-occupiers within the safeguarded areas had a discretionary scheme in place for phase 1 since who sell their homes to the Government would receive 2010 to allow us to buy properties from people experiencing the payments laid down in the compensation code. exceptional hardship and unable to sell because of our Those further away would receive 100% of the un-blighted proposals; however, the Government have always been value of their properties—that is, its value if there were clear that they intend to go further than this in order to no proposals for HS2. assist affected property owners. The proposals laid out Also subject to consultation are two approaches to today are designed to do just that. renting property back to its previous owner after purchase We have consulted before on long-term property by the Government as a result of HS2. compensation for phase 1. However, some of the decision- The consultation will run for 12 weeks, closing making about the Government’s preferred schemes was on 4 December 2013. Following a period of careful challenged in a judicial review and in the light of the consideration, the final schemes should come into operation High Court’s judgment in March 2013, the Government by summer 2014. immediately undertook to re-consult. I can also announce today that the Government will Today we have launched the new consultation, seeking not consult further on proposals pertaining to properties the public’s views on a package of measures designed to above tunnels or the replacement of lost social housing assist individuals in a range of circumstances, whether relative to phase 1. In the coming weeks, we will publish their property is directly on the line of route or further details of the Government’s approach to these issues. away. Though similar to the package consulted on Whatever the outcome of the consultation, the previously, we have taken a fresh look at the options Government are determined to build a fair and effective available and introduced a number of new ideas. package of support for property owners. Within the safeguarded area, we have proposed a Copies of the consultation document, “Property streamlined system of purchasing owner-occupied Compensation Consultation 2013” and other supporting properties to give greater certainty to the owner-occupiers documents will be placed in the Libraries of both closest to the line that we will buy their homes. Houses.

23P Petitions12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Petitions 24P

intervene in certain cases and for the Attorney-General Petitions or the Counsel General to refer questions of whether a Bill or any provision of a Bill is within competence to Thursday 12 September 2013 the Supreme Court for a decision. The Act also sets out a clear framework for Assembly Standing Orders to include processes for scrutinising Assembly Bills. OBSERVATIONS Signage of the Welsh Senedd Building The Petition of Gruffydd Meredith, WALES Declares that up to 12 million people from all over the world visit Cardiff bay and pass the Senedd building A Welsh Second Chamber annually yet the majority of these must have no idea The Petition of Gruffydd Meredith, what the Senedd building actually is or does, as they have no way of knowing unless they enter the building Declares that there is a need for a second scrutinising and ask the staff; further that Wales must be one of the chamber—a “Ty” r bobol”/ “Citizen House”, made up few countries in the world that is does not have a sign of Welsh citizens chosen at random from all over Wales denoting its own national parliament and that the Senedd in the citizen jury style system; further declares there building is one of Wales’ most important institutions should also be representation by independent non-party and belongs to the people of Wales; further that there is affiliated experts and spokespeople from all fields suggested a need and duty for the Senedd building to therefore by small to medium-sized businesses, non charity showcase and make itself known to all the citizens of community groups, schools and colleges; further declares Wales as well as to the rest of the world. that this system of demarchy would provide Welsh The Petitioner therefore requests that the House of politics with a much needed opportunity for independent Commons makes the necessary amendment to the scrutiny by the people and would make sure that the Government of Wales Act 2006 and any other relevant Welsh legislative process and the Welsh Government in act in order to facilitate the renaming of the current general are able to be challenged and truly held to National Assembly for Wales or Cynulliad Cenedlaethol account where necessary. Cymru to Senedd Cymru (Parliament of Wales), placing The Petitioner therefore requests that the House of a large sign on the main public entrance of the Senedd Commons make the necessary amendment of the building overlooking Cardiff bay, with prominent lettering Government of Wales Act 2006 and any other relevant denoting “Senedd Cymru”(Parliament of Wales), together act in order to facilitate the forming of a second scrutinising with an impressive Welsh flag placed centrally at the chamber in Wales made up of Welsh citizens chosen at front top of the sloping roofed entrance. random in the jury style system. And the Petitioner remains etc.—[Presented by Kevin And the Petitioner remains etc.—[Presented by Kevin Brennan, Official Report, 16 July 2013; Vol. 566, c. 1061.] Brennan, Official Report, 16 July 2013; Vol. 566, c. 1062.] [P001210] [P001212] Observations from the Secretary of State for Wales: Observations from the Secretary of State for Wales: The Government of Wales Act 2006 sets out that While the petitioner’s proposal is an interesting one, “there is to be an Assembly for Wales to be known as the National and the Government are keen that as many people as Assembly for Wales or Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru”. possible are engaged with the political process, I am This name, as well as the unique design of the Senedd content that the Government of Wales Act 2006 sets building, is well-established in the minds of the people out appropriate mechanisms for the scrutiny of Assembly of Wales and the Government have no plans to change legislation without the need to introduce a second chamber. it. The design of the signage outside the Senedd building These include powers for the Secretary of State to is a matter for the National Assembly for Wales.

793W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 794W Written Answers to PRIME MINISTER Cosmetics Questions Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister how much 10 Downing Street spent on (a) cosmetics and Thursday 12 September 2013 (b) make-up artists for media appearances (i) since May 2010 and (ii) in 2012-13. [168867]

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION The Prime Minister: No money has been spent.

Hiring of House Facilities Film 7. Kevin Brennan: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister how the House of Commons Commission, what plans the many films 10 Downing Street has produced in (a) Commission has to raise increased revenue through the video, (b) DVD and (c) other digital formats in the last hire of House facilities to corporate clients. [900265] 24 months; and what the title was of each film. [168862] John Thurso: The House of Commons Commission The Prime Minister: The majority of films created by agreed in July 2012 that proposals should be developed 10 Downing Street from the past 24 months are available to extend banqueting and events facilities for hire by on the No. 10 YouTube page. These can be viewed by appropriate third parties when the House is not sitting title and date online at: without the need for sponsorship and attendance by a www.youtube.com/number10gov Member of Parliament, and that such commercial hire Films not available on the No. 10 YouTube page of House of Commons facilities should be conducted include messages from me for: The Police Awards, Free as a two-year trial under the guidance of the Administration Schools Conference, International Nurses Day 2012, Committee. Bookings will be accepted from October Paralympics Team GB, World Hunger Message, and 2013 with the first events from December 2013. the National Business Awards. Curtis Green and Derby Gate Ministerial Policy Advisers 8. Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Prime Minister with the House of Commons Commission, whether he plans reference to his answers of 15 December 2011, Official to gather feedback on the operation of the Curtis Green Report, column 875W, on Ministerial Policy Advisers, and Derby Gate entrances and exits. [900266] and 6 September 2012, Official Report, column 454W, on Ministerial Policy Advisers, when he last published a John Thurso: Following discussions with Members, list of special advisers in post; whether the commitment the Serjeant at Arms established a review of the vehicle to publish such a list on a quarterly basis has been entrance and exit arrangements for Curtis Green and adhered to; and when he will next publish an up-to-date Derby Gate in June 2013. The review involved consultations list of special advisers in post and their number and with a number of Members and staff, and the Metropolitan costs. [168529] Police, and it has already made several recommendations to improve access. The Prime Minister: A list of special advisers will be Further consultations will be undertaken, including published shortly. with the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal. It is anticipated that a trial to improve Members’ access to the Norman Political Office Shaw Buildings will start in the autumn. Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister how Procurement of Eggs much was contributed from the public purse towards the cost of those Downing Street Political Office staff 9. Thomas Docherty: To ask the hon. Member for which are part-funded by the Conservative Party in the Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing most recent year for which figures are available. the House of Commons Commission, what recent discussions he has had with the British Egg Council on [168879] the procurement of indigenous eggs for all catering The Prime Minister: Downing Street political office purposes in the House of Commons. [900297] staff are not paid for by the taxpayer. John Thurso: None. However I understand that following representations from the hon. Gentleman and other Press Conferences members of the Administration Committee the Clerk of the House directed that from the return of the House Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister if he will fresh British eggs from vaccinated flocks be used to make it his policy to hold monthly press conferences in prepare omelettes and scrambled eggs in ‘to order’ 10 Downing Street. [168852] outlets. For large-scale production of egg-based dishes, liquid pasteurised egg is used in line with industry best The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the practice; this pasteurised egg will now be sourced from answer I gave on 10 December 2012, Official Report, British producers. column 17W. 795W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 796W

DEFENCE Armoured Fighting Vehicles

Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many combat vehicles which were (a) Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for purchased and (b) hired by his Department since 2010 Defence which companies financed the Armed Forces were manufactured in (i) the UK, (ii) another EU Parliamentary Scheme in each of the last five years; member state and (iii) a non-EU country; and how and how much was contributed by each. [168902] much his Department spent on each such vehicle. [168067] Dr Murrison: It is understood that the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme (AFPS) has received financial Mr Dunne [holding answer 9 September 2013]: 115 support from BAE Systems, Rolls Royce, Agusta Westland Warthog vehicles including front and rear cab have been and Capgemini but information on the sums provided is purchased by the Ministry of Defence (MOD). The not held by the Ministry of Defence. The future generation base vehicles were manufactured in Singapore by Singapore of commercial sponsorship will be a matter for the Technologies Kinetics and UK specific equipment was AFPS Board of Trustees. fitted to the vehicles by Thales in Wales. The approved cost of the procurement programme was approximately Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for £180 million. Defence how many parliamentarians have taken part in While not defined as combat vehicles, the MOD has the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme in each of the purchased protected vehicles such as 376 Foxhound and last five years. [168903] 60 Terrier since the beginning of 2010. Both of these vehicles were designed and manufactured in the UK. Dr Murrison: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I The Foxhound has an approved cost of £510 million gave on 10 September 2013, Official Report, columns 667- and 330 vehicles were delivered before 6 September 68W,to the hon. Member for Mansfield (Sir Alan Meale). 2013. The Terrier project has an approved cost of £365 million and 24 vehicles have been delivered to date. Armed Forces: Cadets No combat vehicles have been hired since 2010. Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many new entry officer cadets there were Defence: Procurement at (a) Dartmouth, (b) Royal Military Support Sandhurst and (c) Cranwell in (i) 2011 and (ii) 2012. [168898] Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether the companies which tendered for the Dr Murrison: The officer training establishments continue GoCo will be the subject of scrutiny and consideration to provide our armed forces with junior officers of by the Government’s cross-departmental review. extremely high quality, enabling the services to look [168249] forward with confidence. The figures requested are set out in the following table: Mr Dunne [holding answer 10 September 2013]: The cross-departmental review is assessing GoCo competition. Financial year Each of the bidders involved has already been through 2011-12 2012-13 a pre-qualification process. As we progress towards a decision between a GoCo and a public sector solution Britannia Royal Naval College 288 279 we will continue to scrutinise closely both individual Dartmouth consortia members and the market more widely. Royal Military Academy Sandhurst 682 593 RAF College Cranwell 174 199 Prosecutions Armed Forces: Pay Dr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence : To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many successful prosecutions have been brought whether flying pay is paid (a) at the same rate and (b) under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986 in each of the last five years. [168246] to the same criteria across the armed forces. [168573]

Dr Murrison: There are a number of different rates of Mr Francois: I will write to my hon. Friend with the Recruitment and Retention Payment (RRP) (Flying) information requested. which are paid dependent on rank, seniority and specialisation. The criteria applied have been adapted RAF Akrotiri to meet the specific needs of the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Army and the Royal Air Force and therefore Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for vary across the three services and within certain cadres Defence how much his Department has invested in of service personnel. The rates of RRP (Flying) are RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus in each year since 2010. [167916] recommended annually by the independent Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body (AFPRB) and the current levels can Mr Robathan: Total investment expenditure in RAF be found at pages 69-70 of the 2013 AFPRB Report, Akrotiri is not recorded separately but the estimated copies of which are available in the Vote Office and at expenditure on infrastructure projects at RAF Akrotiri the following link: in each full financial year since 2010 is set out in the http://www.ome.uk.com/afprb_reports.aspx following table: 797W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 798W

These figures include total manpower, IT, utilities Financial year Total expenditure (¤) and infrastructure. 2010-11 28,400,000 Unmanned Aerial Vehicles 2011-12 24,581,000 2012-13 11,702,000 Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Note: (1) pursuant to the answer of 2 September 2013, Official All figures have been rounded to the nearest thousand euros. Report, column 53W, on unmanned aerial vehicles, if he will publish the evaluations undertaken on the noise Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for made by this technology; [R] [168345] Defence how much his Department has spent on (2) how such noise evaluations are carried out; and if medical services at RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus in each year he will make a statement. [R] [168346] since 2010. [167917] Mr Dunne: Subject to consultation with the copyright Mr Robathan: Costs for medical services at RAF holder, I will place a copy of the Watchkeeper Acoustic Akrotiri are spread across several areas and it is not Trial Report in the Library of the House. No other possible to identify all elements separately. evaluations have been undertaken. Available details of spending on primary medical The methodology of the Watchkeeper Acoustic Trial services and infrastructure associated with the provision is set out in the trial report. of medical services at RAF Akrotiri in each full financial year since 2010 are shown in the following table: Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer of 2 September 2013, Official Total Report, column 53W, on unmanned aerial vehicles, if he infrastructure Running costs Medication will place in the Library a current copy of the Reaper Financial year costs (¤) (¤) costs (£) Agreement; and when a new such agreement is expected. [R] [168347] 2010-11 1,784,000 2,235,900 246,800 2011-12 661,600 1,862,000 226,700 Mr Robathan: The Reaper agreement comprises a 2012-13 886,600 2,511,900 180,500 number of arrangements including a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the UK and the US Running and infrastructure costs are shown in euros and operating procedures developed for the UK Reaper and medication costs are shown in pound sterling. It is Squadrons, in conjunction with the US Air Force. I will not possible to convert these costs to one currency as place a copy of the original MOU, which was signed in exchange rates will have varied over each financial year. 2008 by the previous Government, in the Library of the Figures have been rounded to the nearest hundred. House. Infrastructure costs include estimated costs for hard The MOU is being reviewed with the US and will and soft facilities management and project costs. Running encompass operating procedures put in place since the costs include military and civilian staff costs, the costs formation of UK Reaper Force Squadrons. Although of retained services, such as chiropody, ophthalmic and no formal timescale has been set, we currently expect paediatric services, professional training costs for civilian agreement in late 2013. staff, individual protective equipment, travel costs, stationery USA costs and vehicle hire costs. It has not been possible to identify spending on Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence secondary medical services for RAF Akrotiri separately what agreements and procedures the Government has as this is provided for all stations in the sovereign base put in place with that of the US to ensure the legality of areas as a whole. any activity undertaken by the United States Visiting Forces based in the UK. [R] [168343] Reserve Forces: Cardiff Mr Robathan: There are a number of long standing agreements and procedures that govern the use of UK Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence bases by the United States Visiting Forces (USVF), and pursuant to the answer of 2 September 2013, Official these continue to ensure that the UK Government are Report, column 43W, on reserve forces: Cardiff, what fully satisfied as to the propriety of the activities undertaken budget has been allocated for HMS Cambria for each by the USVF. of the last five years; and if he will make a statement. [168109] DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Mr Robathan: The budget allocation for reserve forces Trident is not broken down at unit level but, the actual expenditure for HMS Cambria for the last five financial years was: Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister pursuant to the oral contribution of the Secretary of FY Total (£) State for Defence of 2 September 2013, Official Report, 2008-09 959,000 column 5, on the Trident Alternatives Review and the 2009-10 912,000 written answer of the Chief Secretary to the Treasury 2010-11 897,000 of 2 July 2013, Official Report, column 6W, on Trident, 2011-12 837,000 if he will provide details of the cost of the Trident Alternatives Review to the public purse in terms of (a) 2012-13 935,000 cost and (b) officials’ time. [168912] 799W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 800W

Danny Alexander: I have been asked to reply as the and (b) sickness absence in her Department in each of Minister responsible for the Trident Alternatives Review. the past five years were; and what the departmental I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on 2 targets were in each case. [168737] September 2013, Official Report, column 7W. James Brokenshire: The Home Department does not hold information relating to overall rates of staff absence HOME DEPARTMENT as some staff absences are not held centrally and could Absenteeism be obtained only at disproportionate cost. The rate of sickness absence in the Home Department Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the in each of the past five years is included in Table 1, Home Department what the rates of staff (a) absence together with any sick absence targets.

Table 1: Rates of (b) sickness absence in the Home Office as at 31 July 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 and any targets Rate of sickness absence (rolling year Period average working days lost per staff year) Staff employed in period (FTE)1 Sick absence target2

31 July: 2009 9.16 26,137 8.00 2010 8.02 30,580 8.00 2011 7.83 28,512 7.50 2012 7.81 26,147 7.50 2013 7.49 26,112 — 1 Information relating to staff employed during the period is included to show how the rate of sick absence compares to the number of staff working in the Department during the same period. This is in line with Cabinet Office guidelines. 2 A statement on the Department’s overall sick absence rate is included in each year’s Annual Report and Accounts together with any relevant targets. The target included in this response for 2009 and 2010 relate to the Home Office’s corporate (headquarters) functions. For 2011 and 2012 the sick absence target relates to UKBA. During 2013-14 the Home Office will be agreeing revised targets for sick absence. Extract dates: 1 August of each year. Periods covered: Data is provided based on a rolling year, i.e. each month end figure includes one year of absences covering the period 1August to 31 July. Organisational coverage: Includes the Home Department and its executive agencies (excluding non-departmental public bodies) for the relevant period: Figures for 31 July 2009: comprise Home Office headquarters and its executive agencies (United Kingdom Border Agency (UKBA), Identity and Passport Service (IPS), and Criminal Records Bureau (CRB)). Figures for 31 July 2010: comprise Home Office headquarters and its executive agencies (United Kingdom Border Agency (UKBA), Identity and Passport Service (IPS), and Criminal Records Bureau (CRB)). From 1 April 2010, 4,639 (FTE) ex-HMRC customs and detection employees transferred to the UKBA as part of a Machinery of Government change. Figures for 31 July 2011: comprise Home Office headquarters and its executive agencies (United Kingdom Border Agency (UKBA), Identity and Passport Service (IPS), National Fraud Authority (NFA) and Criminal Records Bureau (CRB)). From 1 April 2011, 95 (FTE) Government Equalities Office employees transferred to Home Office Headquarters and 49 (FTE) National Fraud Authority (NFA) employees transferred to the Home Office, when NFA became an executive agency. Figures for 31 July 2012: comprise Home Office headquarters and its executive agencies (United Kingdom Border Agency (UKBA), Identity and Passport Service (IPS), National Fraud Authority (NFA) and Criminal Records Bureau (CRB)). Figures for 31 July 2013: on 1 April 2013 the Home Office underwent a significant re-structure; UKBA was abolished and its teams were incorporated into the rest of the Home Office. At the same time, IPS was renamed Her Majesty’s Passport Office (HMPO). Figures therefore include the core Home Office (including former headquarters areas as well as the former UKBA areas) and its executive agencies (NFA and HMPO). During the year 508 (FTE) National Policing Improvement (NPIA) employees transferred to core Home Office, 468 (FTE) Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) employees transferred out of the Home Office, when CRB merged with the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA) to become a new NDPB—the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) and 107 (FTE) Government Equalities Office employees transferred out of the Home Office, to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS). Employee coverage: Figures are based on FTE of all paid civil servants employed during the rolling year (current and leavers). Transparency agenda considerations: Figures are provided in line with Cabinet Office guidelines and conventions on sickness absence reporting. Rounding: Data is provided to two decimal places and is therefore subject to rounding. Source: Data View—the Home Office’s single source of Office for National Statistics compliant monthly snapshot corporate Human Resources data.

Accountancy asylum in the UK; and on what basis their applications were denied. [167388] Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much her Department has spent on accountants in each year since 2010. [168594] Mr Harper [holding answer 4 September 2013]: Information about the previous occupations of asylum James Brokenshire: The Home Office accounting systems applicants and the reasons for refusal of their asylum do not identify spend on accountants separately within claims, if that is the outcome, can be provided only by its staff costs. The information cannot be obtained examining individual case records, which would incur without incurring disproportionate costs. disproportionate cost. All asylum claims made in the UK by those who have previously served as interpreters Asylum: Afghanistan for the UK Government and armed forces in Afghanistan are considered on their individual merits and protection is offered to those who are found to be at real risk of Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for the serious harm in Afghanistan. Home Department how many Afghan interpreters who have worked for UK armed forces have been declined 801W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 802W

Christmas Cards Police: Pakistan

Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Home Department how much her private ministerial the Home Department what steps the UK has taken to office spent on sending Christmas cards in 2012. ensure that financial support provided to the Pakistani [168683] Anti Narcotics Police does not contribute in any way to Pakistani efforts to impose capital punishment on James Brokenshire: The Home Secretary’s Christmas those arrested for drug offences. [167190] card in December 2012 was an e-card. Therefore, there were no mailing costs associated with its distribution. I Mr Jeremy Browne: Her Majesty’s Government takes shall suggest that the Home Secretary considers adding human rights very seriously and strongly opposes the the hon. Member to this year’s list. use of the death penalty in all circumstances, including for drugs offences. The Government published Overseas Security and Justice Assistance (OSJA) Guidance in Harassment: Social Networking 2011, which provides clear guidance to officials and law enforcement officers to help them identify human rights Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the risks. Under OSJA guidance, where human rights risks Home Department what plans his Department has to are identified, the Government seeks to mitigate risks introduce a code of conduct for social media providers by a range of methods. For instance, we can seek on preventing online stalking and harassment. [168887] assurances that UK co-operation will not lead to torture or prosecutions that result in the death penalty, and Mr Jeremy Browne: The Government takes all forms have a clear exit strategy if these assurances are not met. of stalking and harassment very seriously. The Home This ensures that any assistance we provide supports Office is committed to working with other Government our values and is consistent with our international Departments, the National Policing Leads and Social obligations, including on capital punishment. Media Networks to identify effective practice and improve the response to online harassment and stalking. Procurement

Offences against Children Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proportion of her Department’s expenditure on procurement in the first quarter of : To ask the Secretary of State for the 2012-13 was spent with small and medium-sized enterprises. Home Department (1) when she plans to publish the Government’s response to the Second Report of the [168854] Home Affairs Committee, Session 2013-14, on Child sexual exploitation and the response to localised grooming James Brokenshire: The proportion of the Home Department’s spend with small and medium-sized HC 68-I; [168530] enterprises in the first quarter of 2012-13 was 12.74% (2) with reference to the Second Report of the Home (£74.1 million) of total spend (3.75% direct, 8.99% Affairs Committee, Session 2013-14, on Child sexual indirect). exploitation and the response to localised grooming, HC 68-I, what plans she has to strengthen protection for children from grooming and sexual exploitation. Protection from Harassment Act 1997 [168531] Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: The Government’s response to the Home Department (1) how many people have been (a) Home Affairs Committee’s report was published on arrested, (b) charged, (c) convicted and (d) jailed for 10″September2013. Copies have been placed in the Library offences under (i) section 2A and (ii) section 4A of the of the House and can be found at the following link: Protection from Harassment Act 1997 in Northamptonshire to date; [168839] http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm87/8705/ 8705.asp (2) how many people have been (a) arrested, (b) charged, (c) convicted and (d) jailed for offences under Detail of the Government’s plans to strengthen (i) section 2A and (ii) section 4A of the Protection from protection for children from grooming and sexual Harassment Act 1997 in Surrey to date. [168840] exploitation are contained within the response. Mr Jeremy Browne: The information requested on Police: EU Nationals arrests and charges are not collected centrally. Offences for stalking introduced by sections 2A and Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the 4A of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, as Home Department how many EU citizens, not born in inserted by section 111 of the Protection of Freedoms the UK, are employed as police officers in the UK. Act 2012, commenced on 25 November 2012. [168497] The Ministry of Justice advise that between 25 November 2012 and 31 December 2012 there were no convictions Damian Green: The Home Office does not collect (and hence no immediate custodial sentences) for offences these figures for England and Wales. Figures for Scotland under section 2A or 4A of the Protection from Harassment and Northern Ireland are a matter for the devolved Act 1997 in Northamptonshire or Surrey police force Administrations. areas. 803W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 804W

Court proceedings data for this offence for 2013 are Mr Jeremy Browne: Stalking, is a horrendous crime scheduled for publication in May 2014. and has a huge impact on victims. The police are responsible for carrying out risk assessments including Sandra Osborne: To ask the Secretary of State for the using the Domestic Abuse, Stalking and Honour Based Home Department how many police officers in England Violence Risk Identification, Assessment and Management and Wales have been trained on the application of Model (DASH) for victims experiencing stalking. sections 2A and 4A of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. [168860] Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many complaints of stalking Damian Green: Stalking is a serious crime and has a have been recorded by the police in England and Wales huge impact on victims. It is for chief constables in each since 25 November 2012. [168889] police force to ensure that officers are effectively trained and kept up to date with the legislation. The Home Mr Jeremy Browne: The information requested is not Office continues to work with the police and other available from the police recorded crime statistics collected agencies to raise awareness and support training around by the Home Office. Offences of ’stalking’ would be the stalking offences. recorded under the offence classification of ’Harassment’ and cannot be separately identified from other offences Publishing recorded within that classification. Television Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much her Department has Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the spent in each of the last three years on hard copy Home Department how many flat screen televisions printing of documents for external audiences. [168629] have been purchased by her Department in the last 24 months; and what the cost to the public purse was of James Brokenshire: The Home Office accounting systems such purchases. [168755] do not identify separate expenditure on hard copy printing of documents for external audiences. The James Brokenshire: Information on expenditure on information cannot be obtained without incurring television purchases for the last 24 months is not held disproportionate costs. centrally and would incur disproportionate cost to obtain.

Satellite Broadcasting CABINET OFFICE Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what subscriptions her Department Charitable Donations has for premium satellite television channels; and what the cost of each such subscription was in the most Mr Blunkett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet recent year for which figures are available. [168647] Office what assessment he has made of changes in the levels of financial giving and philanthropy over the last James Brokenshire: The Home Office does not pay two years. [168353] for any premium satellite channels. Any premium channels we do have are fed from the Parliament TV Service in Mr Hurd: The Government uses the Community Life Millbank. The Parliament TV Service carries live and Survey to track, among other things, trends in giving of archived coverage of all UK Parliament proceedings money. In 2012-13 almost three quarters (74%) of people taking place in public, including debates and committee reported giving money to charity in the four weeks meetings of both Houses. prior to interview; this represents a slight increase from 2010-11 when 72% donated. Stalking The proportion of people donating to charity had declined between 2005 and 2010-11 (from 79% to 72%), Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the so the latest figures appear to represent a halt of this Home Department how many police officers of each downward trend. rank have received training on investigating and gathering Figures from HMRC suggest that there has been an evidence in relation to complaints of stalking. [168836] increase in the amount donated that has had Gift Aid claimed on it in the past two years from £3,830 million Damian Green: Stalking is a serious crime and has a in 2010-11 to a provisional figure of £4,130 million in huge impact on victims. It is for chief constables in each 2012-13. police force to ensure that officers are effectively trained I am aware that the right hon. Member is chairing an and kept up to date with the legislation. The Home inquiry on behalf of the Charities Aid Foundation on Office continues to work with the police and other this and I look forward to reading the final report. agencies to raise awareness and support training around the stalking offences. Communities First Fund

Sandra Osborne: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Home Department what her policy is on routine risk Office pursuant to the answer of 6 September 2013, assessment for people who have experienced stalking. Official Report, column 538W, on Communities First [168861] Fund, if he will place in the Library a breakdown by 805W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 806W local authority area of how much funding was overdoses as ONS do not categorise substances in this manner. In allocated to the Community First programme in year addition, some prescription drugs are widely abused (for example (a) one and (b) two; and what proportion of that morphine and diazepam), and it is not possible to determine from funding has been spent by local Community First the information provided on the coroner’s death certificate whether the drug was prescribed to the individual or obtained illegally. panels. [168479] The number of drug-related deaths registered in England and Wales from 1993 to 2012 are available on the ONS website. Table Mr Hurd: Funding is allocated to Community First 6 shows the number of deaths for specific substances, including a Neighbourhood Match Fund panels by ward. A breakdown wide range of prescription drugs: of how much was granted by Community First panels www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/subnational-health3/deaths-related- in 2011-12 and 2012-13 by ward will be published in due to-drug-poisoning/index.html course and a copy will be placed in the Library of the House. Table 1. Number of deaths where the underlying cause was related to The Community First programme costs for these drug poisoning, Pendle parliamentary constituency and Lancashire 1, 2, 3, 4 years are published in the Cabinet Office Annual Report county, deaths registered 2008 to 2012 and Accounts 2012-13 at: Deaths (persons) Area 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/225980/HC_15.pdf Pendle 4 8 11 13 5 parliamentary Conditions of Employment constituency Lancashire 89 70 75 83 73 county Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet 1 Cause of death was defined using the International Classification of Office how many staff (a) directly employed and (b) Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes shown in Box 1 as follows. indirectly employed through other companies by his 2 Figures are based on boundaries as at August 2013 and exclude Department were employed on zero-hours contracts in deaths of non-residents. 3 Deaths of persons usually resident in Blackpool and Blackburn with each of the last 10 years. [168272] Darwen unitary authorities have been excluded from figures for Lancashire county. Mr Maude: Unfortunately information covering each 4 Figures are based on deaths registered, rather than deaths occurring of the last 10 years is not readily available. However, I between 2008 and 2012. Due to the length of time it takes to hold an can confirm that since the last general election no staff inquest, it can take months for a drug-related death to be registered. Additional information on registration delays for drug-related deaths have been directly employed on zero hour contracts in can be found in the annual statistical bulletin: the Cabinet Office. www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/subnational-health3/deaths-related-to-drug- In 2008-09 seven individuals and in 2009-10 six poisoning/index.html individuals were indirectly employed through other Box 1. International Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD- companies on zero-hours contracts. In 2010-11, 2011-12 10) codes used to define deaths related to drug poisoning and 2012-13 the number of such individuals has been Description ICD 10 codes five or fewer. In line with the practice of previous Administrations exact numbers are not usually disclosed Mental and behavioural disorders due to F11-F16, F18-F19 to protect individual privacy when the numbers are five drug use (excluding alcohol and or fewer. tobacco) Accidental poisoning by drugs, X40-X44 medicaments and biological substances Prescription Drugs: Lancashire Intentional self-poisoning by drugs, X60-X64 medicaments and biological substances Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Minister for the Assault by drugs, medicaments and X85 Cabinet Office how many deaths from prescription biological substances drug overdoses there were in (a) Pendle constituency Poisoning by drugs, medicaments and Y10-Y14 biological substances, undetermined and (b) Lancashire in each of the last five years. intent [168968]

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Private Sector: Yorkshire and the Humber asked the authority to reply. Letter from Peter Fullerton, dated September 2013: Andrew Jones: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet In the absence of the Director General for the Office for Office what estimate has been made of the number of National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent private sector jobs to be created in Yorkshire and the question asking the Secretary of State for Health how many Humber in the next five years. [168884] deaths from prescription drug overdoses there were in (a) Pendle constituency and (b) Lancashire in each of the last five years. Michael Fallon: I have been asked to reply on behalf (168968) of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. The following table provide the number of deaths where the In their 2012 publication “Working Futures 2010-2020” underlying cause was related to drug poisoning for (i) Pendle parliamentary constituency and (ii) Lancashire county, for deaths the UK Commission for Employment and Skills forecast registered between 2008 and 2012 (the latest year available). that between 2010 and 2020 the total number of predominantly private sector jobs is estimated to increase The drug-related deaths shown in Table 1 involve a broad spectrum of substances, including legal and illegal drugs, prescription by over 100,000 in Yorkshire and the Humber: drugs and over-the-counter medications. It is not possible to http://www.ukces.org.uk/assets/ukces/docs/publications/ provide figures on the number of deaths from prescription drug evidence-report-41-working-futures-2010-2020.pdf 807W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 808W

WALES The Solicitor-General: The Attorney-General and I have had no specific discussions with the Crown Prosecution High Speed 2 Railway Line Service on the pre-signing of abortion forms. Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Conditions of Employment what requests he has made for Barnett consequentials for Wales arising from the High Speed 2 project. [168467] Chris Ruane: To ask the Attorney-General how many staff (a) directly employed and (b) indirectly employed Mr David Jones: Any Barnett consequentials will be through other companies by the Law Officers’ Departments determined in line with the Statement of Funding Policy were employed on zero-hours contracts in each of the in the normal way. last 10 years. [168271]

The Solicitor-General: The Law Officers’ Departments SCOTLAND have not directly employed any staff on zero hours contracts in each of the last 10 years. No records are High Speed 2 Railway Line held on whether or not companies who provided services to the Law Officers’ Departments during this time have Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland employed staff under such terms. what requests he has made for Barnett consequentials for Scotland arising from the High Speed 2 project. Protection from Harassment Act 1997 [168468]

David Mundell: Responsibility for public expenditure Mr Llwyd: To ask the Attorney-General what training allocation across the United Kingdom lies with the Crown Prosecutors have received on sections 2A and Treasury.Barnett consequentials for HS2 will be determined 4A of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. in line with the Statement of Funding Policy in the [168837] normal way. The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service Manufacturing Industries: Job Creation (CPS) updated its Legal Guidance on Stalking and Harassment to reflect the new stalking offences prior to Mr McKenzie: To ask the Secretary of State for commencement of the stalking offences on 25 November Scotland how many jobs created in Scotland since 2010 2012. In addition, the CPS has developed an online are in the manufacturing sector. [167969] e-Learning course on cyber stalking which was launched in September 2012 and includes training on the relevant David Mundell: The Office for National Statistics offences and their identification, as well as covering publishes data on total workforce jobs broken down by other issues which may arise in the prosecution of the Standard Industrial Classification (SIC 2007). When stalking cases. The course was refreshed in June 2013, this coalition Government came into power in 2010 when it became mandatory learning for all prosecutors. employment was at 2,602,000, with manufacturing The CPS is currently developing further training on the employment making up 187,000. The records from June stalking offences, with emphasis on building a strong 2013 put employment at 2,643,000, with manufacturing case, working closely with the police and engaging with increasing to 202,000. A total increase of 15,000. victims throughout the legal process. That information is available from the Office for National Statistics website, at: Serious Fraud Office http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/lms/labour-market-statistics/ august-2013/statistical-bulletin.html Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Attorney-General how Staff many staff are currently employed at the Serious Fraud Office. [168357] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many posts in his Department have been The Solicitor-General: At 31 August 2013, the Serious relocated from London to each other region in each of Fraud Office employed the full-time equivalent of 293.3 the last 10 years. [168283] permanent staff.

David Mundell: The Scotland Office has less than 60 staff with one office in London, and one in Edinburgh. Over the last 10 years the majority of staff have been CHURCH COMMISSIONERS based in Edinburgh. Conditions of Employment ATTORNEY-GENERAL Chris Ruane: To ask the hon. Member for Banbury, Abortion representing the Church Commissioners, how many workers were (a) directly employed by the Church Commissioners Mark Pritchard: To ask the Attorney-General what and (b) indirectly employed by the Church Commissioners discussions he has had with the Crown Prosecution through other companies on zero hours contracts in Service on the pre-signing of abortion forms. [168430] each of the last 10 years. [168350] 809W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 810W

Sir Tony Baldry: Figures for the number of people Academies directly employed by the Church Commissioners on temporary time sheet employment contracts are given Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for as follows. This is the same system used for any person Education if he will publish details of financial employed through a temporary staff agency. arrangements made by his Department with any former Number of staff jointly employed by the Church Commissioners and private schools that have converted to academy status other national church institutions on ‘time sheet contracts’ since May 2010. [167745] Number Mr Timpson [holding answer 5 September 2013]: 2004 7 Since May 2010, we have agreed financial arrangements 2005 7 with 13 former independent schools converting to academy 2006 5 status. Most of these schools received the standard 2007 5 project development grant of £25,000 given to mainstream 2008 5 schools to support them with the costs of conversion, 2009 30 although three received more. All grants agreed since 2010 40 May 2010 are significantly smaller than the level of 2011 40 grants paid to independent schools moving into he state 2012 30 sector prior to May 2010. Between 2007 and 2010, 2013 34 project development grants given to converting independent schools ranged from £620,000 to as high as £1.7 million. The increase in 2009 is the result of putting the casual In some cases the Department has also agreed to catering staff and security staff at Lambeth Palace on fund the existing debts of predecessor schools by securing the payroll. a charge against the assets such as land and buildings. The Church Commissioners and other national church Consistent with the approach under the previous bodies make every effort to protect and support those Government, some projects have also been provided who choose to be employed on this basis. This way of with a contribution towards capital funding for the working is valued by those who take up these opportunities creation of new places. and many individuals have worked for the Church of England in this way for many years. Children: Day Care Unlike many employers when dealing with staff on ‘time sheet contracts’ the Church has chosen to make Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for special provision to protect their employment rights. Education (1) how many unscheduled inspections of Included in contracts for individuals are entitlements childcare providers following complaints were undertaken for annual leave, sick pay and sick leave, paid via the by Ofsted in each month since August 2008; [168492] submission of timesheets. Where possible temporary (2) how many childcare providers subject to unscheduled staff employed on this basis are booked in advance, inspections by Ofsted following complaints had their except when unexpected short term cover is required. rating revised (a) down, (b) up, (c) from outstanding Each individual has the opportunity to refuse the offer or good to unsatisfactory and (d) from outstanding or of employment if the work is not convenient and this good to satisfactory in each month since August 2008; would not prevent any consideration of subsequent [168493] offers of employment. (3) how many complaints Ofsted has received from I am not aware that any indirectly employed staff childcare providers about the quality or result of an contracted to work with the Church Commissioners are unscheduled inspection following a complaint in each employed on zero hour contracts. month since August 2008; and how many of these complaints were upheld (a) by the initial investigating official, (b) following an internal review and (c) by the Independent Complaints Adjudication Service for EDUCATION Ofsted; [168494] (4) how many revisions to the rating of childcare Absenteeism providers Ofsted has made following an upheld complaint by a childcare provider subject to an unscheduled inspection Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education in each month since August 2008. [168495] if he will place in the Library his Department’s statistics for absenteeism in the last three financial years. [168532] Elizabeth Truss: These questions are for Ofsted to answer. I have asked Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, Sir Elizabeth Truss: The Department’s statistics for Michael Wilshaw, to write to the hon. Member. Copies absenteeism in the last three financial years are set out of his replies will be placed in the House Library. as follows. These figures represent average working days lost. Children: Protection

Financial year Average working days lost Mr Brady: To ask the Secretary of State for Education 2010-11 6.0 how many serious case reviews relating to the safeguarding 2011-12 5.1 of children and young people there have been in each of the last five years; and what estimate he has made of the 2012-13 4.4 cost of such reviews in each such year. [167813] 811W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 812W

Mr Timpson: The number of Serious Case Reviews expertise. Reputable organisations such as the British (SCRs) commissioned by Local Safeguarding Children Heart Foundation and St John Ambulance already Boards (LSCBs) and notified to the Department for provide resources and training, which schools are free Education in relation to the safeguarding of children to make use of, and we encourage them to do so when and young people in each of the last five years is as teaching pupils about this topic. follows: GCSE: English Language As at 1 April to 31 March each Number year Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 132 Education if he will review Ofqual’s decision to remove 2009-10 124 the Speaking and Listening Assessment from GCSE 2010-11 73 English and GCSE English Language. [168349] 2011-12 58 2012-13 74 Elizabeth Truss: The assessment of speaking and listening has not been removed from GCSE English and The Government has established a national panel of English Language. Ofqual has stated that speaking and independent experts to advise and challenge Local listening will be reported separately on the GCSE certificate Safeguarding Children Boards (LSCBs) to initiate and alongside the GCSE grade. publish high-quality SCRs. This is so lessons can be The Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. learned locally and nationally to drive up the quality of Friend the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), child protections services and avoid mistakes being has no plans to review Ofqual’s decision on these repeated. The panel will initially advise LSCBs on: arrangements. Ofqual is the independent regulator of any decision made by an LSCB not to initiate an SCR following qualifications and reports directly to Parliament. It has a serious incident which meets certain agreed criteria found that current arrangements for speaking and listening any case where an LSCB has concerns about publication of an do not produce fair outcomes for students. SCR report The costs of carrying out such reviews are not held Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for centrally and, at present, LSCBs are not required to Education what consideration he has given to the effect publish precise costs for each SCR they carry out. of Ofqual’s decision to remove the speaking and listening assessment from GCSE English and GCSE Cycling English Language on (a) the amount of teaching time allocated to speaking and listening skills, (b) the Ms Ritchie: To ask the Secretary of State for development of pupils’ oral communication skills and Education what funding his Department provides for (c) the accountability of teachers to teach speaking cycling infrastructure development. [168390] and listening skills at Key Stage 4. [168478]

Mr Laws: The Department for Education has not Elizabeth Truss: The assessment of speaking and provided any funding for the development of cycling listening has not been removed from GCSE English and infrastructure. English Language. Students’ speaking and listening skills will be reported separately on the GCSE certificate First Aid: Curriculum alongside the GCSE grade, giving a more detailed picture of students’ achievements than under the previous Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for arrangements. Education what consideration he gave to including Ofqual is the independent regulator of qualifications emergency life savings skills in the school curriculum. and it has found that current arrangements for speaking [168834] and listening do not produce fair outcomes for students. Ofsted will continue to hold schools to account for Elizabeth Truss: The Government do not believe that their teaching of English, including speaking and listening. the teaching of emergency life savings skills (ELS) The Department for Education will consider making should be a statutory requirement. The aim of this available the results of the separate assessment of speaking Government is to reduce prescription throughout the and listening through its new Data Portal. education system and, in doing so, to allow teachers and school leaders the flexibility to use their professional Annette Brooke: To ask the Secretary of State for judgment to provide what is best in their circumstances. Education what recent discussions his Department has The new national curriculum that we have published had with Ofqual about its decision to remove the will provide a rigorous basis for teaching, a benchmark Speaking and Listening Assessment from GCSE for all schools to improve their performance and will English and GCSE English Language. [168480] give children and parents a better guarantee that every student will acquire the knowledge to succeed in the Elizabeth Truss: The assessment of speaking and modem world. listening has not been removed from GCSE English and Teachers are free to use their professional judgment English Language. Ofqual has said that speaking and to decide whether to teach ELS and should tailor such listening will be reported separately on the GCSE certificate provision according to the needs of their pupils. To alongside the GCSE grade. support teaching, schools are free to use professional Ofqual is the independent regulator of qualifications, organisations and resources and we encourage organisations with a statutory responsibility to secure standards in to develop guidance for schools in the areas of their qualifications. It must be able to do that free from 813W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 814W political interference. It has found that current arrangements implemented internal efficiency controls which require for speaking and listening do not produce fair outcomes spend above thresholds in specific areas to be approved for students. Ofqual has kept Ministers informed of its at ministerial level. Details of such spends are provided concerns and the action it intends to take. in the following table:

Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education Spend area Ministerial threshold (£000)

Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for Advertising, Marketing and 100 Education what changes his Department intends to Communications make to how sex and relationship education is taught Consultancy 20 External Recruitment 1— under the PSHE curriculum. [168460] 1 All external recruitment cases at SCS level. Elizabeth Truss: The Department has considered the The resources authorised by Parliament are already role of sex and relationship education (SRE) as part of published on the Department’s estimate, a link is available: its review of personal, social, health and economic https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ (PSHE) education. Experts are best placed to provide attachment_data/file/197738/ schools with up-to-date materials and advice on changing dfe_mainsupplyestimates_201314.pdf technologies that fit within the framework of our sex A copy will be placed in the House Library. and relationship education guidance. This means schools can always access the most current advice and guidance on every emerging issue. The PSHE Association has recently updated its guidance INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT for schools on developing and improving their SRE policies. The Sex Education Forum also has a range of Developing Countries: Malnutrition useful resources to help schools improve their SRE programmes, as do other organisations which seek to Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for raise standards in SRE education. International Development what steps her Department is taking to ensure that all the governments which Property attended the Nutrition for Growth event on 8 June 2013 make their promised financial commitments to Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for tackle malnutrition. [168256] Education if he will place in the Library a copy of his Department’s property assets. [168533] Lynne Featherstone: International donors made new financial commitments at the Nutrition for Growth Elizabeth Truss: The Department for Education has event of up to £2.7 billion over the period 2013 to 2020. two freehold property assets: Countries which are members of the Scaling Up Nutrition Castle View House, Runcorn; (SUN) movement also made financial commitments Mowden Hall, Darlington. related to increased allocation of domestic resources. The DFE review will see the Department reduce the DFID will shortly launch an accountability mechanism number of sites that it operates by half. Both the to track and report annually on all the Nutrition for Runcorn and Darlington sites will be vacated and sold Growth commitments. as part of the review. Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for All other properties used by the DFE are leasehold International Development in what countries and to and therefore not considered to be assets owned by the support which activities her Department will disburse Department. the monetary commitments made by the Nutrition for Public Expenditure Growth event on 8 June 2013. [168257] Lynne Featherstone: Decisions on new bilateral Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education programmes will be taken by DFID country offices. if he will publish the delegated spending threshold Officials in Whitehall will work closely with its country against which spending needs to be authorised by a offices, partner governments, donors and the Scaling Minister in his Department. [168469] Up Nutrition (SUN) movement as part of the decision- making process. Geographical location will be dictated Elizabeth Truss: All new policy spending proposals by greatest need and potential impact. New financial are submitted to Ministers for approval. However, the commitments will support nutrition specific activities, commitment of expenditure is delegated from HM Treasury such as promotion of breastfeeding, complementary to the Permanent Secretary, as Principal Accounting feeding, management of severe acute malnutrition, vitamin Officer, in the letter of appointment, which states: A supplementation and salt iodisation. ″YourAppointment is in accordance with Section 5, subsection 6 of the Government Resources and Accounts Act (GRAA) 2000 and carries with it the responsibility for ensuring that resources Female Genital Mutilation authorised by Parliament and sums to be paid out of the consolidated Fund, in respect of the Department for Education, are used for Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for the purposes intended by Parliament.″ International Development what recent discussions she Additionally, since 2010, the Department complies has had with the Secretary of State for the Home with Efficiency Controls measures as set out by Cabinet Department about those at risk of female genital mutilation Office in their guidance. The Department has also seeking asylum in the UK. [168211] 815W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 816W

Lynne Featherstone: I have had regular discussions Syria with Home Office and other Government Ministers about a range of measures to protect girls from female Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for genital mutilation in the UK and overseas, and to help International Development how her Department plans eradicate this appalling practice. to allocate the additional £52 million of UK aid to Syria. [168481] Palestinians Mr Duncan: So far the UK has provided £348 million to assist those most in need as a result of the Syria crisis. Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for The money is being spent through a combination of International Development pursuant to the answer of partners and UN agencies, specifically the World Food 11 June 2013, Official Report, column 279W,on Palestinians, Programme and the UN Refugee Agency. This funding when her Department will complete its consideration of has provided food for over 285,000 people a month, the costs and benefits of additional assistance for vulnerable water for almost 1 million people and approximately communities in Area C. [168475] 300,000 medical consultations. We are currently in discussions with our partners to Mr Duncan: DFID is committed to helping the poorest allocate an additional £52 million based on a continuous Palestinian people, many of whom live within Area C. assessment of needs. The Secretary of State during her Extensive discussions are currently under way with recent visit to the region announced that £10 million of relevant authorities, other donors and civil society groups this will be allocated to needs in Jordan. We also intend about how we can support the potential development of to increase our emphasis in helping the 1 million children infrastructure in Area C of the Occupied Palestinian refugees. Territories. DFID is now assessing the full costs and benefits of additional assistance for vulnerable communities in Area C including how they could form a part of Secretary Kerry’s economic track of the Middle East HEALTH Peace Process discussions. Mortuaries South Africa Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) how many cadavers were held in public Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for mortuaries for more than one month in each year since International Development (1) what consideration 1997; [168192] determined the timing of her announcement in April 2013 that the UK’s bilateral aid programme to South (2) what the estimated cost of holding cadavers in Africa would end in 2015; [168582] public mortuaries was in each year since 1997. [168193] (2) whether representatives of the South African Anna Soubry: The Department does not collect this government expressed concern about her decision to information centrally. end the UK’s bilateral aid programme to South Africa in 2015 before the announcement of the decision on 30 NHS England April 2013. [168583] Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Justine Greening: There have been on-going discussions Health (1) what responsibilities were transferred from with the Government of South Africa on the intention his Department to NHS England and its predecessor to end bilateral aid over the last year. The communique organisations in (a) 2011, (b) 2012 and (c) 2013 to of the UK-SA Bilateral Forum was agreed yesterday by date; [168235] both Governments and sets out the approach to our (2) what the annual budget of NHS England and its future development relationship with South Africa. predecessor organisations was in (a) 2011, (b) 2012 and (c) 2013; [168241] Staff (3) what the value of contracts overseen by NHS England and its predecessor organisations has been in Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) 2011, (b) 2012 and (c) 2013 to date. [168242] International Development how many posts in her Department have been relocated from London to each Anna Soubry: We have taken ″predecessor organisations″ other region in each of the last 10 years. [168280] to mean NHS England as a body and not other organisations that were part of the health and care Mr Duncan: DFID has undertaken three programmes system before April 2013 i.e. strategic health authorities of post relocations from London to our second and primary care trusts. headquarters site in East Kilbride in Scotland over the The NHS Commissioning Board Authority, a special last 10 years. Available figures show plans for relocation health authority, was set up on 31 October 2011 by the of 85 posts over the period 2004-06. A further 70 posts NHS Commissioning Board Authority (Establishment were relocated over the period 2010-11. 41 posts were and Constitution) Order 2011. Special health authorities relocated over the period 2012-13. Relocation of individual exercise specified functions of the Secretary of State, posts from London to Scotland is also considered on a and this authority’s function was to prepare for the continuous and case-by-case basis as posts become establishment and operation of NHS England. The vacant or are re-structured. authority was abolished on establishment of NHS England. 817W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 818W

The establishment and functions of NHS England Salary (in £5,000 (known in legislation as the National Health Service Name Job title bands) £000 Commissioning Board) were provided for by the National Health Service Act 2006, as amended by the Health and Ciaran Devane Non-executive director 5 to 10 Social Care Act 2012. The Health and Social Care Act Dame Moira Gibb Non-executive director 5 to 10 2012 (Commencement No.2 and Transitional, Savings Naguib Kheraj Non-executive director 20 and Transitory Provisions) Order 2012 brought into Ed Smith Non-executive director and 10 to 15 chair of Audit Committee force a number of provisions of the 2012 Act on 1 Sir David Chief executive 210 to 215 October 2012, including those which brought about the Nicholson establishment of NHS England and conferred on it Professor Sir Bruce National medical director 190 to 195 some of its functions in preparation for the new system Keogh coming into force on 1 April 2013. Paul Baumann Chief financial officer 200 to 205 The Health and Social Care Act 2012 (Commencement Dame Barbara Acting chief operating officer/ 195 to 200 Hakin Deputy chief executive No.4, Transitional, Savings and Transitory Provisions) Bill McCarthy National director: Policy 175 to 180 Order 2013 brought into force further provisions of the Tim Kelsey National director for patients 180 to 185 2012 Act, in particular those which provided for most and information of the remaining functions of NHS England on 1 April Jo-Anne Wass National director: HR and 155 to 160 2013. These are largely set out in Part 2 of the 2006 Act organisational development and relate to the commissioning of NHS services, Jane Cummings Chief nursing officer 165 to 170 responsibility for which was previously held by strategic Rosamond Acting national director: 165 to 170 health authorities and primary care trusts. Roughton Commissioning development 1 Paid to UCL, rather than to Professor Sir Malcolm Grant. The NHS Commissioning Board Authority’s budget, 2 Margaret Casely-Hayford and Naguib Kheraj have waived their entitlement from its establishment on 31 October 2011 until the end to remuneration for their appointments. of that financial year (March 2012) was £7.3 million revenue. The combined budget for the NHS Commissioning Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Board Authority and NHS England for the 2012-13 Health what the total number of staff employed by financial year was £81.7 million revenue and £7.7 million NHS England is. [168240] capital. NHS England’s annual allocation is now set out in Anna Soubry: NHS England advises that it employs the mandate from the Government to NHS England. 6,187 staff as at 31 July 2013. For 2013-14 this is £95,623 million revenue and £200 million capital. The value of contracts overseen by NHS England is a NHS: Drugs matter for that organisation. We understand that NHS England does not hold a central list of the value of Mr Blunt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health contracts overseen by NHS England or its predecessor (1) pursuant to the answer of 17 July 2013, Official organisations. Report, column 721W, on Warfarin, what responsibility NHS England has for the enforcement of the NHS Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Constitution with regards to patients’ legal rights to Health (1) what the net value is of the property medicines approved by NICE; [167750] portfolio owned by NHS England; [168236] (2) what action NHS England may take to direct (a) (2) what the net value is of the property portfolio NHS medicines management organisations and (b) managed by NHS England. [168237] Clinical Commissioning Groups to alter prescribing protocols which it judges to be in conflict with the Anna Soubry: NHS England does not own or manage provisions of the NHS constitution as it pertains to any properties. As part of the NHS Health and Social patients’ legal rights to access to medicines approved by Care Act 2012, NHS Property Services Ltd, was established NICE; [167751] to perform this function. (3) what steps have been taken by NHS England to date against those NHS organisations which may have Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for breached the NHS constitution by publishing prescribing Health (1) what the annual salary is of the Chief protocols on the use of anticoagulants which restrict Executive of NHS England; [168238] patient access to novel oral anticoagulants to a second-line (2) what the salaries are of each board member of therapy. [167752] NHS England. [168239] Dr Poulter: The NHS constitution sets out that patients Anna Soubry: The following table provides salary have the right to drugs and treatments that have been details (within £5,000 bands) for NHS England’s directors: recommended by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) for use in the national health Salary (in £5,000 service, if their doctor says they are clinically appropriate Name Job title bands) £000 for them. Both NHS England and clinical commissioning Professor Sir Chair 160 to 65 groups (CCGs) have a statutory duty to promote the Malcolm Grant NHS constitution. Lord Victor Non-executive director 5 to 10 Adebowale NHS England has advised that it will be publishing Margaret Casely- Non-executive director 20 weblinks to trust formularies as part of the Innovation Hayford Scorecard in October 2013, to improve transparency on 819W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 820W what treatments are available at a local level. This will It is unacceptable and avoidable for families to be enable patients, CCGs and local area teams to challenge placed in bed and breakfast accommodation for long breaches of the NHS constitution if treatments are not periods and legislation remains in place that prohibits made available at a local level. the use of bed and breakfast accommodation for families Where allegations of non-compliance to NICE guidelines unless in an emergency, and then for no more than six have been made prior to the establishment of NHS weeks. England, these were investigated by strategic health We called on local housing authorities not to use bed authorities and all claims were refuted by trust chief and breakfast accommodation for families as one of the pharmacists and evidence of usage was provided. NHS 10 challenges we set them in the recent Ministerial England also advised that it is not aware of any new Working Group Report on Homelessness. These challenges allegations on non-compliance to Warfarin. form the basis of the Homelessness Gold Standard Challenge—a local peer review scheme supported by nearly £2 million of Government funding. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT On 1 August, I announced the seven local authorities Bed and Breakfast Accommodation that account for almost 50% of families in bed and breakfast over six weeks who we are supporting with Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities nearly £2 million, to test innovative and sustainable and Local Government how many families in (a) Barnsley solutions to reduce the unacceptable numbers of families Central constituency, (b) South Yorkshire and (c) in bed and breakfast accommodation. Alongside this England are recorded as living in bed and breakfast additional funding, a new working group has been (B&B) accommodation; and how many such families formed which will work closely with local authorities were recorded as living in B&Bs in (i) 2010, (ii) 2011 and using bed and breakfast to house families to help them tackle this damaging practice. (iii) 2012. [156859]

Mr Prisk [holding answer 3 June 2013]: The latest Betting Shops figures on the number of households with dependent children or expectant mothers with no other dependent children recorded as living in bed and breakfast Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for accommodation relate to 31 December 2012 and are Communities and Local Government what recent included in the following table. The table also gives assessment he has made of the effects of betting shops figures for 31 December 2010 and 31 December 2011. on local communities. [168342] The figures are the total numbers reported by local authorities as at each date. It is not possible from the Nick Boles: We continue to work with the Department information provided to identify individual households for Culture, Media and Sport to consider the effect of and so to track the number of households in bed and betting shops. Local authorities have powers to act breakfast accommodation as at 31 December 2012 that where there are particular local concerns. had also been in bed and breakfast accommodation on any particular previous dates. Bookmakers

Number of households with dependent children or expectant mothers with no other dependent children in bed and breakfast Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for accommodation as at 31 December: Communities and Local Government how many times 2010 2011 2012 he has met representatives of the bookmakers industry Barnsley 000in the last three years. [168352] Council South 013 1 Nick Boles: Details of Ministers’ meeting with external Yorkshire organisations are routinely published on my Department’s England 660 1,310 1,690 website. 1 Comprises Barnsley, Doncaster, Rotherham arid Sheffield. Source: P1E quarterly returns Conditions of Employment Figures for 31 March 2012 will be published on 6 June. The figures for England are also available in DCLG Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Live Table 775, at Communities and Local Government how many staff https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live- (a) directly employed and (b) indirectly employed through tables-on-homelessness other companies by his Department were employed on The Barnsley Central constituency falls wholly within zero-hours contracts in each of the last 10 years. the area of Barnsley council. The area of Barnsley [168273] council also includes parts of the parts of Penistone and Stocksbridge, Wentworth and Dearne, and Barnsley Brandon Lewis: The Department for Communities East constituencies. and Local Government has had two directly employed Homelessness is around half the average rate it was staff on zero-hour contracts since the Department was under the last Administration, and remains lower than established in May 2006. More information is available in 27 of the last 30 years. England has a strong safety in my answer of 2 July 2013, Official Report, column 535W. net, protected in law, to ensure families always have a The Department does not hold the information on roof over their head. indirectly employed staff through other companies. 821W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 822W

Council Housing: Woking TREASURY Business: North Yorkshire Jonathan Lord: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many local authority properties have been purchased through the Andrew Jones: To ask the Chancellor of the Government’s right-to-buy scheme in Wokingconstituency Exchequer how many loans have been provided to small and medium-sized enterprises in North Yorkshire in each of the last five years. [166780] as a result of the funding for lending scheme. [168883] Mr Prisk: Figures for local authority sales through Greg Clark: The funding for lending scheme has the right to buy scheme are not available at a constituency contributed to a transformation of the bank funding level, but are available at a local authority level. The two environment and banks are now passing these on to the local authorities covered by the Woking constituency real economy including to small businesses. are Woking and Guildford. As part of the monitoring of the funding for lending Woking local authority made 45 sales between 2008-09 scheme, the Bank of England publishes the net lending and 2012-13, while there were 48 sales in Guildford over data of individual banks on a quarterly basis. A regional the same period. Further information is available in breakdown is however unavailable. The Bank of England Table 685 on the Department’s website: will publish net lending figures by sector once the https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live- extension begins. tables-on-social-housing-sales#right-to-buy-sales High Speed 2 Railway Line It should be noted that these are sales from local authorities and do not include sales of social housing Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the stock through Preserved Right to Buy made by registered Exchequer (1) pursuant to the oral evidence of the providers (such as housing associations). Permanent Secretary of his Department to the Treasury Right to Buy sales have increased in both Guildford Sub-Committee, 3 September 2013, uncorrected transcript, and Woking since the new discounts were introduced, Q63, stating that his Department had not signed a but there is more to do to inform tenants of their new blank cheque for High Speed 2, what upper limit his rights and help them up the ladder of home ownership. Department has set for spending on that project; [168375] (2) what discussions he has had with the Secretary of Housing: Carbon Emissions State for Transport regarding the upper limit HM Treasury has set for spending on High Speed 2; [168376] (3) whether the current budget for High Speed 2 Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for includes the budget for the compensation package that Communities and Local Government what steps the is currently being reconsulted on; and whether provision Government is taking to ensure that all new homes are has been made for the costs of a potential increase in carbon-zero by 2016. [168910] that compensation package. [168377] Mr Foster: As set out in Budget 2013, the Government Danny Alexander [holding answer 11 September 2013]: remains committed to implementing zero carbon homes The 2013 spending round set a funding envelope for from 2016. A further strengthening of the energy efficiency High Speed 2 of £42.6 billion for construction costs requirements in Building Regulations was announced (£21.4 billion for Phase 1 and £21.2 billion for Phase 2) in a written ministerial statement on 30 July 2013, and £7.5 billion for rolling stock, including £16.1 billion Official Report, columns 165-66WS. A consultation of contingency, in 2011 prices. This envelope also makes seeking views on the next steps to zero carbon homes provision for a property consultation package which including a flexible way to help home builders meet the goes beyond statutory requirements. zero carbon standard through the use of cost effective The Government expects the railway to be delivered ’Allowable Solutions’ was published on 6 August. for less than this long-term envelope, and the Secretary of State for Transport has set HS2 Ltd a lower ‘target price’ of £17.16 billion to deliver Phase 1. More detail Local Government: ICT on the Government’s long-term capital spending plans is available in “Investing in Britain’s Future”: Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/209279/ Communities and Local Government pursuant to the PU1524_IUK_new_template.pdf answer of 24 April 2013, Official Report, column 989W, on local government: ICT, what progress he has made Mrs Gillan: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer on measures to allow town and parish councils to (a) (1) what estimate has been made of the Barnett make online payments and (b) send agendas electronically. consequential for Northern Ireland for the money that [167055] (a) has already been spent, (b) is contracted to be spent and (c) will be spent in England on High Speed 2; Brandon Lewis: I refer the hon. Member to my written [168488] ministerial statement of 10 September 2013, Official (2) what estimate has been made of the Barnett Report, column 43WS. We are aware of the support for consequential for Wales from expenditure (a) already a change in legislation to remove any doubts about spent, (b) currently contracted to be spent and (c) councils’ ability to send agendas electronically and we projected to be spent in England on High Speed 2. are minded to legislate to enable this by April of 2014. [168489] 823W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 824W

Danny Alexander: Allocations to the devolved Mr Gauke: This year HMRC has developed and Administrations at spending reviews are made in the introduced an approach to externally recruit apprentices. form of block grants. It is not possible to identify HMRC also participates in the Civil Service Wide Fast consequentials for individual spending items within the Track Apprenticeship scheme which offers an alternative total grant. Barnett consequentials for HS2 will be route to further education for 18 to 21 year groups. determined in line with the Statement of Funding Policy Under the last Government, HMRC did not recruit in the normal way. apprentices. HMRC currently recruit apprentices to undertake Public Expenditure the following roles: (a) Level 2 or level 3 qualification in Business Administration Philip Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer or Customer Service what assessment he has made of the effect on total (b) Level 4—IT higher Apprenticeship managed expenditure of immigration from Romania (c) Level 4 Business Administration (Civil Service Fast Track and Bulgaria after 2014. [168293] Scheme) During 2013-14, HMRC plan to employ 207 apprentices: Danny Alexander: There is no reliable way of estimating 52 have already been appointed future numbers of Bulgarian and Romanian migrants 120 join September/October 2013 on the Civil Service Fast and any potential impact on total managed expenditure. Track scheme Any such impact will be managed within existing budgets. 11 join September/October 2013—IT higher apprenticeship programme Public Expenditure: Scotland 24 to be recruited January 2014 During 2014-15 and 2015-16, the IT Profession plan Mr McKenzie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to offer a further 12 places each year to undertake a what recent discussions his Department has had with higher level 4 apprenticeship in IT. the Scottish Government on shovel-ready projects financed HMRC consider apprenticeships as part of standard by the additional £395 million provided in the last business and workforce planning processes. The final autumn statement. [168175] decisions on numbers will be determined and agreed, as part of the departmental workforce plans, and once Danny Alexander: As a result of policy decisions confirmed HMRC may be able to offer more. taken by the UK Government, the Scottish Government Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the has received £1.6 billion of additional capital funding Exchequer how many staff in each area of its activity over the course of the current spending review, including HM Revenue and Customs expects to retire in each £394 million as a result of autumn statement 2012. year between 2013-14 and 2015-16. [168208] It is for the Scottish Government to determine its own priorities for this spending. Mr Gauke: HMRC does not operate a fixed retirement age policy and does not know when individuals will Revenue and Customs choose to retire. HMRC uses a statistical model to forecast likely levels of full-time equivalent (FTE) staff retirements based on historic data. The latest forecast Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the for each of HMRC’s lines of business is shown in Exchequer what HM Revenue and Customs’ total yield table 1. in each area of its activity (a) was in each year since 2010-11 and (b) is targeted to be in each year between Table 1: Forecast FTE reductions due to retirement and early retirement 2013-14 and 2015-16. [168196] Retirements and early retirements by line of business1 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16 Mr Gauke: The additional revenues collected from Enforcement and Compliance 450 490 520 compliance activities by HM Revenue and Customs for Personal Tax 320 330 340 each year since 2010-11 is as follows; Corporate Services 80 80 90 Benefits and Credits 60 70 70 £ billion Business Tax 60 70 70 2010-111 2011-12 2012-13 1 Forecasts are rounded to the nearest 10 FTE

Personal Tax n/a 12.2 0.9 These results exclude staff who have reduced their Business Tax n/a 5.6 6.1 working hours as part of a partial retirement arrangement. Enforcement and n/a 0.8 13.7 Current plans are for Enforcement and Compliance Compliance FTEs to rise to a total of around 28,000 during 2014-15 Total additional 13.9 18.6 20.7 before reducing again through natural wastage to around revenues 25,700 by end 2015-16 as part of our overall efficiency 1 The methodology for calculating additional revenue collected from commitments. compliance activity changed between 2010-11 and 2011-12, and so the figure of £13.9 billion is not directly comparable to later years. HMRC is committed to delivering an extra £9 billion a year by 2014-15 and is on track. Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many staff HM Revenue and Customs Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the expects to make (a) voluntarily and (b) compulsorily Exchequer how many apprentices have been employed redundant from each area of its activity in each year by HM Revenue and Customs in each year since from 2013-14 to 2015-16; and how much HM Revenue 2010-11; and how many people will be so employed in and Customs has allocated to meet redundancy costs in each year until 2015-16. [168207] each such year. [168209] 825W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 826W

Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has 2011-12 set no money aside for voluntary redundancy and Voluntary Compulsory compulsory redundancy in 2014-15 and 2015-16. If Line of business Grand total redundancies redundancies staff are required to be made voluntarily or compulsorily Benefits and 000 redundant, HMRC will need to meet the cost out of its Credits existing funds. Business Tax 0 0 0 Corporate 14 12 2 Data for 2013-14 is provided as follows: Services Enforcement 651 2013-14 and Compliance Voluntary Compulsory Personal Tax 11 8 3 Line of business Grand total redundancies redundancies Grand total 31 25 6 Benefits and Credits 0 — — Business Tax 0 — — Costs (£) 827,414 783,933 43,481 Corporate Services 5 .4 1 2012-13 Enforcement and 19 18 1 Compliance Voluntary Compulsory Line of business Grand total redundancies redundancies Personal Tax 81 74 7 Grand total 105 96 9 Benefits and 000 Credits Business Tax 0 0 0 Cost (£) 3,496,960 3,398,284 98,676 Corporate 27 26 1 Services Enforcement 44 and Compliance Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Personal Tax 1 0 1 Exchequer how many staff HM Revenue and Customs Grand total 32 30 2 has made (a) voluntarily and (b) compulsorily redundant in each of its areas of activity in each year Costs (£) 1,190,944 1,156,281 34,663 from 2010-11 to 2012-13; and how much HM Revenue and Customs has spent on redundancy costs in each Tax Avoidance such year. [168210] Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the Mr Gauke: The number of staff that HM Revenue accuracy of the tax gap estimates produced by (a) HM and Customs (HMRC) has made voluntarily and Revenue and Customs and (b) alternative sources; and compulsorily redundant in each of its lines of business if he will make a statement. [168537] from 2010-11 to 2012-13, together with the amount spent on such redundancy costs, are shown in the Mr Gauke: The tax gap estimates published in following tables. “Measuring Tax Gaps 2012”are produced by Government analysts working in HMRC in line with the values, Under Cabinet Office protocols for managing staff principles and protocols set out in the Code of Practice surpluses, all HMRC staff leaving under compulsory for Official Statistics. Details of the accuracy and the redundancy (CR) terms have first been offered and methodologies used to produce the estimates are published declined voluntary redundancy (VR) terms. To date this both in the main report and in the Methodological approach has ensured that all staff who have left HMRC Annex: on CR terms have acquiesced to compulsory redundancy, either because accepting CR over VR terms has not http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2012.pdf financially disadvantaged them, or they have declined a http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg- reasonable alternative redeployment solution in favour annex2012.pdf of CR terms. HMRC is aware of alternative estimates of the tax gap. Such estimates use different definitions of the tax The redundancies have had no effect on the level of gap and are therefore not directly comparable. HMRC’s service provided by HMRC. view of the main alternative method used to calculate 2010-11 the tax gap is set out in: Voluntary Compulsory http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/ Line of business Grand total redundancies redundancies cmselect/cmtreasy/124/12405.htm Benefits and 220 Credits Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the Business Tax 0 0 0 Exchequer what target HM Revenue and Customs has Corporate 23 22 1 set for reducing the tax gap in each year of the 2013 Services Spending Round period as (a) an overall figure and Enforcement 136 132 4 [168538] and Compliance (b) a proportion of tax liabilities. Personal Tax 318 308 10 Grand total 479 464 15 Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs does not use the tax gap estimate for setting targets or performance measurement as it is not sufficiently accurate or timely Costs (£) 14,771,065 14,503,028 268,041 for these purposes. 827W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 828W

HMRC has set targets for additional revenues raised Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the through compliance activity as set out in Spending Cabinet Office. Round 2013: The information requested falls within the responsibility https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority attachment_data/file/209036/spending-round-2013- complete.pdf to reply. Tax Evasion Letter from Glen Watson, dated September 2013: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Chancellor of the have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question to the Exchequer what recent progress has been made by HM Secretary of State for Work and Pensions asking how many 16 to Revenue and Customs in initiating proceedings against 24 year olds in (a) Jarrow Constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) those included in the 2012 and 2013 most wanted lists of the North East and (d) the UK have been employed on zero hours tax fugitives; and if he will make a statement. [168536] contracts in each of the past five years. (168201) Currently, the only official source of estimates of people Mr Gauke: HM Revenues Customs (HMRC) launched employed on zero-hours contracts is the Labour Force Survey their most wanted list in August 2012. during the current (LFS). Unfortunately, the LFS does not currently allow for coalition Government. 20 photographs were issued to robust analysis by age group of zero-hours contracts and, due to the British press together with a brief outline of each sample size, estimates are not available for areas smaller than the case. UK. Following a re-launch in August 2013, when the list On 22 August 2013 the Office for National Statistics announced was expanded to 30 individuals, Malcolm McGowan plans for an additional regular estimate of the number of ’zero-hours’ was arrested at a public swimming pool, by officers of employment contracts in the UK workforce: the Guardia Civil acting on the outstanding Spanish http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/ons- Arrest warrant. HMRC successfully extradited McGowan announces-additional-estimate-of-zero-hours-contracts/ by ferry from Spain on 5 September 2013 and he is now zhc0813.html in prison. HMRC continues to work towards bringing all current Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Work HMRC fugitives (including those featured in the Most and Pensions for how many hours an employee on a Wanted Campaign) before the UK Courts. HMRC uses zero-hours contract has to work to be counted as all available systems and resources to locate and trace employed rather than unemployed in his Department’s individuals. This includes working closely with HMRC’s monthly employment statistics. [168202] Overseas Liaison Officers, Crown Prosecution Service, Serious Organised Crime Agency, Interpol and International Partners. Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Cabinet Office. HMRC continues to receive information concerning Fugitives from the Most Wanted campaign, both from The information requested falls within the responsibility the UK and from overseas. This information is analysed of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority with the aim of supporting further arrests and successful to reply. extraditions from both the European Union and elsewhere. Letter from Glen Watson, dated September 2013: A breakdown on progress on the 32 cases featured in As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I HMRC’s Most Wanted Campaign is as follows: have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions asking how many hours Comments Number an employee on a zero hours contract has to work to be counted as employed rather than unemployed in his Department’s monthly Proceedings started — 8 employment statistics. (168202) Arrests/Conviction John Nugent Anthony 3 Judge Malcolm Estimates of people in employment on zero-hours contracts McGowan are available from the Labour Force Survey (LFS). To be classified Proceedings not yet possible European Arrest 6 as in employment a respondent has to report that they had either: due to lack of extradition Warrants (EAWs) in place treaty for two individuals who (i) done some paid work in the survey reference week; or may travel (ii) had been temporarily away from a job. Proceedings not yet possible as Considering EAW in one 2 host country does not extradite case Once a respondent has been identified as being in employment, for the Tax Offence details about the type of job are collected by asking further Proceedings not yet possible, as —11questions. Fugitive not located Anybody on a zero hours contract who satisfied either of the Awaiting Legal Decision Currently with Crown 2 Prosecution Service conditions above would be classified as in employment and included in the monthly employment statistics. Anyone else on a zero hours contract, e.g. someone who did no work in the reference week and did not consider themselves to be temporarily absent, WORK AND PENSIONS would not be classified as in employment. They would be classified as either unemployed or economically inactive, depending on Conditions of Employment their availability for work and their job search activity, which would be determined by subsequent questions. It is not possible Mr Hepburn: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to estimate how many people on zero hours contracts are not and Pensions how many 16 to 24 year olds in (a) Jarrow classified as in employment. Constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East The classifications used in the LFS are consistent with the and (d) the UK have been employed on zero-hours standards for international comparisons as set out by the United contracts in each of the past five years. [168201] Nations International Labour Organisation (ILO). 829W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 830W

Employment Employment and support allowance (ESA) new claims—Outcomes of initial functional assessments by prognosis and month of result date, for the work related activity group, Great Britain Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Claimants with prognosis of two years or more Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the average weekly number of job applications submitted September 300 by each jobseeker in (a) Ashfield constituency, (b) October 300 Nottinghamshire, (c) the East Midlands and (d) England November 200 December 200 in each of the last 24 months. [169055]

Mr Hoban: No such estimate has been made as this 2011 information is not routinely gathered. January 200 February 200 Employment and Support Allowance March 200 April 200 May 200 Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for June 100 Work and Pensions how much his Department has July 100 spent on assisting recipients of Employment and Support August 100 Allowance into work through the Work Programme September 100 since June 2011. [168116] October 100 November 100 Mr Hoban: From June 2011 to March 2013 (the December 100 period of the latest Work Programme statistical release) £83 million has been paid to providers for claimants in 2012 the ESA payment groups (Payment Groups 5, 6 and 7). January 200 Paul Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Work February 200 and Pensions how many people in the employment and March 200 support allowance work-related activity group have a April 200 prognosis of unlikely to return to work in the longer May 200 June 200 term. [168577] July 200 Mr Hoban: There is no such prognosis as being August 200 unable to return to work in the longer-term. However, September 200 the following table shows how many claimants have October 300 been allocated a prognosis of two years or more: November 300 December 200 Employment and support allowance (ESA) new claims—Outcomes of initial functional assessments by prognosis and month of result date, for the work related activity group, Great Britain 2013 Claimants with prognosis of two years or more January 200 February 200 2008 Notes: December — 1. Figures are shown rounded to the nearest 100. 2. ’—’ denotes nil or negligible. Scope: 2009 Initial functional assessment—the first assessment of the employment and January — support allowance claim. The outcome recorded is the final DWP decision-maker’s decision or the February — recommendation made by the Atos Healthcare professional where the decision- March 200 maker’s decision is not yet available. April 200 Source: Data in the table is derived from administrative data held by the DWP and May 200 assessment data provided by Atos Healthcare. June 300 July 400 Paul Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Work August 400 and Pensions how many people previously in receipt of September 300 incapacity benefit have been placed in the employment October 300 and support allowance work-related activity group November 300 without being seen by an assessor. [168578] December 300 Mr Hoban: The information is as follows: 2010 Incapacity benefits reassessments—outcomes for paper based assessments, Great January 300 Britain (IB claimants referred for reassessment between September 2011 and November 2012) February 300 Month of referral for reassessment WRAG outcomes March 300 April 200 September 2011 9,700 May 300 October 2011 10,000 June 300 November 2011 10,400 July 300 December 2011 10,200 August 200 January 2012 9,100 831W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 832W

Incapacity benefits reassessments—outcomes for paper based assessments, Great Britain (IB claimants referred for reassessment between September 2011 and £ November 2012) Local authority 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 Month of referral for reassessment WRAG outcomes Redbridge — 114,632 23,253 February 2012 8,400 Richmond — 37,760 18,187 March 2012 8,800 upon Thames April 2012 9,100 Southwark — 76,542 99,068 May 2012 9,900 Sutton — 46,359 20,950 June 2012 9,100 Tower Hamlets — 128,333 104,668 July 2012 10,600 Waltham — 120,219 50,421 Forest August 2012 10,100 Wandsworth — 195,959 60,939 September 2012 9,200 Westminster — 1,311,681 66,930 October 2012 10,500 November 2012 10,300 Total 145,300 Housing Benefit: Private Rented Housing Notes: 1. All figures are rounded to the nearest 100. Hence totals may not sum exactly. 2. A small number of cases where the data is inconsistent with the policy have Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for been excluded from this table. Work and Pensions what the current average level of 3. When someone claiming incapacity benefits is reassessed for ESA, they will only have to undergo a face-to-face work capability assessment (WCA) if there housing allowance paid to claimants in the private is insufficient evidence for a paper-based WCA to be carried out. rented sector in each London borough is; and what the Source: equivalent payment was in each of the last three years. The figures are derived from administrative data held by the Department for Work and Pensions and assessment data provided by Atos Healthcare. [168339]

Housing Benefit: Greater London Steve Webb: The information requested for the average amount of housing benefit paid to claimants in the Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for private rented sector in each London borough can be Work and Pensions what level of transitional funding found at: for housing allowance has been allocated to each https://stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk London borough for the financial year (a) 2010-11, (b) Guidance on how to extract the information required 2011-12 and (c) 2012-13 to date; and what the can be found at: [168337] intended level is in 2013-14. https://sw.stat-xplore.dwp.gov.uk/webapi/online-help/Stat- Xplore_User_Guide.htm Steve Webb: The following table provides details of the housing benefit transitional funding allocated to Incapacity Benefit local authorities in London.

£ Paul Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Local authority 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 and Pensions when he plans to publish figures on incapacity benefit reassessments and decisions by condition group. Barking and 294,875 68,143 41,448 Dagenham [168576] Barnet — 241,642 43,712 Bexley — 38,447 23,841 Mr Hoban: The Department has no plans to publish Brent 216,526 522,149 86,081 figures on incapacity benefit reassessments results by Bromley — 58,830 40,707 condition group. Camden — 192,363 70;637 City of London — 3,955 2,334 Jobseeker’s Allowance Croydon — 192,448 56,397 Ealing — 275,656 58,775 Dr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Enfield — 215,103 46,898 and Pensions how many foreign-born nationals claimed Greenwich — 60,022 59,401 jobseeker’s allowance in each of the last five years. Hackney — 254,015 98,972 [168297] Hammersmith — 133,623 57,931 and Fulham Haringey 525,000 208,524 71,994 Mr Hoban: The information requested is not available. Harrow — 82,093 23,481 However this Department has released estimates on Havering — 43,903 20,758 working age benefit recipients which can be found in Hillingdon — 84,335 35,840 the publication for NINo allocations to adult overseas Hounslow — 93,456 40,162 nationals entering the UK: registrations to March 2013 Islington — 154,251 88,546 here: Kensington — 460,766 45,666 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nino- and Chelsea allocations-to-adult-overseas-nationals-entering-the-uk- Kingston upon — 46,965 16,005 registrations-to-march-2013 Thames Lambeth 266,000 125,739 102,129 Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Lewisham — 177,545 69,082 Work and Pensions what the full breakdown of sanctions Merton — 62,890 23,722 issued against jobseeker’s allowance claimants since Newham — 116,368 66,449 2010-11 is. [169136] 833W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 834W

Mr Hoban: Statistics on the full breakdown of sanctions (3) how many full-time equivalent staff of each civil issued against jobseeker’s allowance (JSA) claimants service grade are currently employed in the private since 2010-11 can be found at: office of each Minister in his Department; and what https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- the pay band of each such member of staff is. [168729] for-work-pensions/series/dwp-statistics-tabulation-tool Guidance for users is available at: Mr Hoban: The Secretary of State’s private ministerial https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ office spent no money on sending Christmas cards in attachment_data/file/203439/tab-tool-guidance.pdf 2012 The statistics on JSA sanctions applied from 22 October The Secretary of State’s private ministerial office 2012 will be published in due course. A proposed publication does not subscribe to any newspapers, periodicals or date will be announced in advance via trade profession publications. https://www.gov.uk/ Details of the staff employed on each ministerial and team are shown as follows: http://www.statsusernet.org.uk/Home/ Number in the “Welfare and Benefits” community. Secretary of State Senior civil servant PB1 1 Jobseeker’s Allowance: Domestic Violence Band G 1 Band F 2 Band D 3 Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) whether he has made an assessment of the extent to which the jobseeker’s allowance domestic Minister for Band F 1 violence easement is applied in jobcentres in practice; Employment Band D 3 and if he will make a statement; [168584] Band C 1 (2) whether he plans to implement the recommendations of his Department’s research report entitled Domestic Violence: Implementation of JSA DV Easement and Minister for Pensions Band F 1 DDV Concession, published in June 2013; and if he will Band D 3 make a statement. [168832] Band C 1

Mr Hoban: DWP directly supports domestic violence Minister for Disabled Band F 1 victims in a number of ways. The jobseeker’s allowance People domestic violence (JSA DV) easement helps victims of Band D 2 actual or threatened domestic violence by allowing a Band C 1 break from jobseeking activity to enable claimants to stabilise their lives and those of their families. Minister for Welfare Band F 1 The Domestic Violence Implementation of JSA DV Reform Easement and DDV Concession—Small Scale Qualitative Band D 4 Research published on 20 June 2013—identified nationally Band C 1 that 338 claimants have taken up the four week easement and 115 claimants have taken up the full 13 week easement. New Enterprise Allowance While this demonstrates that the easement is being applied in jobcentres in practice, the research was commissioned by the Department to highlight how we Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Work can further improve service delivery. and Pensions with reference to the answer of 31 August 2012, Official Report, column 87W, on New Enterprise Work is already under way to implement the Allowance, whether it remains the case that the scheme recommendations from the report which. includes action will not be extended beyond 2013. [168255] to improve the local level understanding of both policies and refreshing guidance and communications to ensure that all claimants who experience domestic violence are Mr McCann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work able to get the help and support that they need. and Pensions if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer of doubling the capacity of the New Enterprise Allowance Scheme. [168301] Ministers’ Private Offices

Mr Hoban: We have recently announced the extension Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for of the new enterprise allowance and have therefore Work and Pensions (1) how much his private ministerial considered the cost of running the scheme for a further office spent on sending Christmas cards in 2012; 15 months for the duration of the extended period. [168691] Referrals to the new enterprise allowance will now (2) which newspapers, periodicals and trade profession continue until the end of December 2014. We are making publications his private ministerial office subscribes to an additional 60,000 mentoring places available, ensuring on a (a) daily, (b) weekly, (c) monthly and (d) quarterly that access to business start-up support is available to basis; [168710] claimants who wish to move into self-employment. 835W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 836W

Latest new enterprise allowance (NEA) statistics the number of people aged over 50 years old who want published on 21 August 2013 showed that from April to return to work. [168961] 2011 up to and including May 2013 there have been 54,410 starts with a NEA business mentor and 26,160 Mr Hoban: Advisers in local Jobcentres now have the starts to the NEA weekly allowance. flexibility to offer all claimants, including older people, The administrative costs for NEA participants are a comprehensive menu of help which includes skills determined locally. The maximum cost per person is provision and job search support. All claimants who are £600 (although in some cases is lower). We are providing long-term unemployed can access the tailored, back to additional administrative funding of £35 million to work support, on offer from the Work programme. meet this cost. The NEA weekly allowance is payable over 26 weeks Security and is worth up to £1,274. Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Occupational Pensions Work and Pensions how many departmental identity cards or passes have been reported lost or stolen by staff in his Department since May 2010. [168620] Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what progress has been made on the Mr Hoban: The issue and management of site passes rollout of auto-enrolment pension schemes. [168885] are carried out locally by the Department’s accommodation service providers. There are no centrally held records of Steve Webb: The largest employers began automatically such losses, etc., and to obtain the information requested enrolling their staff on 1 October 2012. All other employers in relation to the Department’s estate would involve ″ ″ are being staged in over the next five years. disproportionate cost. Full roll-out will be achieved in 2018 and the early Similar considerations relate to departmental identity signs are that it is a success. The Pensions Regulator’s cards which are also issued on a local basis to a minority (TPR) latest available registration figures show that by of staff for visiting purposes. 31 July 2013 1,600 employers had enrolled more 1.4 million eligible workers into a qualifying workplace Staff pension. Opt out is lower than expected so far. Previous research Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Work suggested around a third of people would opt out but and Pensions how many posts in his Department have the latest research with large employers indicates that been relocated from London to each other region in around 91% of individuals are currently choosing to each of the last 10 years. [168286] continue to save. The Department will publish research later this autumn Mr Hoban: In line with the recommendations of the describing the experiences of large employers who have Lyons Review of Public Sector Relocation published in been through automatic enrolment so far to identify 2004, the Department reviewed activities undertaken in key lessons and good practice for employers in the future. London and the South East regions. As a result, 1,170 posts were transferred from London to other regions, Older Workers out of an overall total 4,069 posts relocated from London and the South East. This programme was completed in Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2008-09 and no further relocation programmes have and Pensions what steps he intends to take to increase been undertaken since.

Region 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 Total

Scotland — — 43 — — — 43 Wales — 38 189 109 28 — 364 North West — 56 256 13 — — 325 Yorkshire and Humber 25 — 18 64 — 5 112 East Midlands ———22——22 South West — — 96 39 — 7 142 Northern Ireland — — 162 — — — 162

Total 25 94 764 247 28 12 1,170

Standards participating in the QDS process were delayed owing to the development of the Cabinet Office’s Government Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Interrogating Spending Tool (GIST). The GIST was Work and Pensions what the reasons are for the time developed in response to recommendations made in taken to publish his Department’s Quarterly Data Dr Martin Read’s independent report entitled ‘Practical Summary for the second quarter of 2012-13 and the Steps to Improve Management Information in third quarter of 2012-13. [168831] Government’. The GIST is an online tool that allows the public to access a breakdown of government expenditure Mr Hoban: The quarter 2 and quarter 3 Quarterly through the Gov.UK website. It makes the process of Data Summary (QDS) returns of all 17 Departments 837W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 838W accessing and analysing complex QDS and OSCAR Mr Hoban: Following a meeting with representatives data easier and quicker, and for these reasons was seen of the Trussell Trust in August 2011, Jobcentre Plus to justify a short delay in publishing QDS data. agreed local offices would signpost claimants in crisis if this service was requested by local food banks. We continue to offer this service and signpost claimants to food banks. Start Up Loans Company While we have had some correspondence with the Trussell Trust but it has not been considered necessary to have any further discussions; Food banks are not Mr McCann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Government responsibility. and Pensions if he will estimate the cost to the Exchequer of doubling the loan book of the Start up Loans Universal Credit Company. [168299] Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Fallon: I have been asked to reply on behalf Work and Pensions for what reason war disablement of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. pension is disregarded under universal credit; and if he The Start-Up Loans programme is fully funded by will make a statement. [168581] Government, therefore doubling the size of the programme would double the expenditure. However, we expect Mr Hoban: There is a compelling case to accord repayments and interest to be generated and have set special treatment to ex-service personnel to acknowledge out in the grant letter to the Start-up Loans company their unique contribution to safeguarding this country’s that these monies should be recycled for the benefit of security. That is why war pensions and guaranteed the programme reducing the burden on the Exchequer income payments made under the Armed Forces over time. On current projections every £1 million spent Compensation Scheme—both regular income payments on loans will generate £2.2 million of additional lending and lump sums—are fully disregarded in universal credit. over a 10-year period. Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr McCann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions (1) what assessment he has made of and Pensions what amount his Department has spent the resource requirements of any introduction of on the Start-up Loans Company to date; and what that Jobcentre Plus interviews for universal credit claimants funding has been spent on. [168300] who are deemed to be earning too little; [168913] (2) what discussions he has had regarding possible Michael Fallon: I have been asked to reply on behalf Jobcentre Plus interventions for those earning less than of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. £950 per month, following the introduction of universal credit; and if he will make a statement. [168916] The Start-up Loans Company is grant funded with an allocated budget of £117.5 million to the end of Mr Hoban: Universal credit will, for the first time, 2014-15. To date, the company has drawn down £57.5 enable us to engage with people who are in low paid million of this funding. work so that they can earn more. The nature of how we A maximum of 5% of total funding has been allocated work with these claimants is yet to be determined. No to administration costs, with up to 20% intended to assessment has therefore been made of the resource support the costs of mentoring, training and support, implications. and loan disbursement and collection by Start-Up Loans’ As we made clear during the passage of the Welfare delivery partners (dependent on individually negotiated Reform Act we are committed to piloting to understand commercial terms). These allocations are specified under what type of support works best for people in work the terms of the grant offer. before putting in place a national regime. We have Actual spend in the pilot year will be confirmed in consulted widely through the call, for ideas on ’in work’ the company’s annual accounts, which will be published support, and have commenced a programme of tests to post-audit. However, information provided by the company explore different approaches. indicates that savings on the revenue allocation from reduced administration and transaction costs in excess Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for of £1 million were achieved and recycled as additional Work and Pensions what proposals his Department has capital for lending in the pilot year (2012-13). made for sanctions under universal credit for claimants who are deemed to be earning too little; and if he will make a statement. [168915]

Trussell Trust Mr Hoban: At the launch of universal credit we are not imposing full conditionality on claimants in substantive employment until we have identified the best approach Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for through piloting and evaluation. However, claimants Work and Pensions what agreements his Department with earnings below the conditionality earnings threshold has made with the Trussell Trust since May 2010; what will in the future be expected to look for more work or the status of any such agreement is; and what better paid work or to prepare to be ‘work-ready’ and discussions his Department has had with the Trussell will fall into the appropriate conditionality group according Trust since May 2010. [168564] to their capability and circumstances. 839W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 840W

Work Programme Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions Paul Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Work he has had with (a) his counterpart in the Democratic and Pensions how many people with a progressive Republic of Congo (DRC), (b) his Rwandan counterpart, condition are being placed on the Work programme; (c) the UN Special Envoy to the Great Lakes and (d) and what the success rate for placing these claimants the UN Special Representatives for the Democratic Republic of Congo, on the need for a renewed political back into work has been to date. [168579] dialogue between the government of the DRC and the Mr Hoban: Information requested is not available. M23 rebel group. [168355] Mark Simmonds: During the outbreak of the recent fighting in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE I spoke to both the Special Representative of the Secretary General and the UN Special Envoy. I have also spoken British Nationals Abroad: Detainees to the Prime Minister of DRC and the Foreign Minister of Rwanda. I have encouraged restraint on all sides, and : To ask the Secretary of State for expressed my support for the work and leadership of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what range of the UN. I welcome the fact that talks between the DRC diplomatic responses and sanctions are available to the Government and the M23 are to restart. While these Government in its relationships with another state when talks are unlikely in themselves to bring lasting peace to a UK citizen is being detained illegally by that state. eastern DRC, they have a part to play in resolving the [168483] immediate conflict. This will allow the main focus to Mark Simmonds: The British Government would return to implementing the Peace, Security and take very seriously any case of a British national being Co-operation Framework for the Great Lakes—aimed detained illegally. We would seek advice on whether the at addressing the underlying causes of conflict in eastern detention was in fact unlawful.. If it became apparent DRC—with a dialogue between regional Governments that a British national was being detained illegally, we to support it. would consider how best to make representations to the Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities of the country holding the British national. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is Actions would include in the first instance a Note taking to encourage the government of (a) the Democratic Verbal or letter from the embassy, high commission or Republic of Congo (DRC) and (b) Rwanda towards consulate. If further consultations were required we the resumption of the peace talks between the DRC and could, where appropriate, make representation at the M23 rebel group. [168356] ambassadorial, ministerial or prime ministerial level. This might take the form of a letter or phone call to Mark Simmonds: During the outbreak of the recent their counterpart, and/or the case might be raised in fighting in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), person in a meeting. I spoke to both the Special Representative of the Secretary General and the UN Special Envoy. I have also spoken Democratic Republic of Congo to the Prime Minister of DRC and the Foreign Minister of Rwanda. I have encouraged restraint on all sides, and Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for expressed my support for the work and leadership of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what monitoring the UN. I welcome the fact that talks between the DRC is undertaken of the activities of British-based mining Government and the M23 are to restart. While these companies operating in Democratic Republic of talks are unlikely in themselves to bring lasting peace to Congo (DRC); and what discussions he has held with eastern DRC, they have a part to play in resolving the the government of DRC on the operation of Extractive immediate conflict. This will allow the main focus to Industries Transparency Protocol. [168340] return to implementing the Peace, Security and Co-operation Framework for the Great Lakes—aimed Mark Simmonds: British embassy staff in the Democratic at addressing the underlying causes of conflict in eastern Republic of Congo (DRC) maintain contact with British- DRC—with a dialogue between regional Governments based mining companies or their representatives in the to support it. course of their business. However, regulating the activities of British businesses overseas is largely the responsibility Dominican Republic of the host Government in the country of operation. The UK Business and Human Rights Action Plan, Stephen Doughty: To ask the Secretary of State for launched on 4 September by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Ambassador to the Dominican Republic has requested Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), a meeting with the (a) Attorney-General, (b) President and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and of the Supreme Court and (c) President of the Dominican Skills, the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince Republic to discuss the case of Nicole Reyes a constituent Cable), sets out the Government’s expectations of business of the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth. in relation to human rights and its own actions in [168485] support. DRC became an Extractive Industries Transparency Mark Simmonds: Our ambassador to the Dominican Initiative (EITI) candidate in 2008 but was temporarily Republic wrote to the Attorney-General on 28 August suspended in April 2013. We continue to encourage regarding the detention of Nicole Reyes. He has requested DRC to seek to meet EITI standards. a meeting to discuss the case. 841W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 842W

Stephen Doughty: To ask the Secretary of State for Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) if he will wrote and spoke to the previous Iranian Foreign Minister personally raise the case of Nicole Reyes a constituent Salehi, and will now meet Foreign Minister Zarif later of the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth this month in New York. The Prime Minister has written with his counterpart in the Dominican Republic; to President Rouhani. The UK is ready to improve [168486] bilateral relations with Iran on a step by step and (2) if the Prime Minister will raise the case of Nicole reciprocal basis. Reyes, a constituent of the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, who is detained illegally in the Paul Goggins: To ask the Secretary of State for Dominican Republic with the President of the Dominican Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what representations Republic. [168487] he has made to the Iranian Government about the murder of Mr Ataollah Rezvani on Saturday 24 August Mr Swire: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office 2013; and if he will make a statement. [168904] (FCO) is fully aware of Ms Reyes’s detention, and Ministers are being updated regularly. FCO officials are Alistair Burt: I am aware of reports of the murder of urging the relevant authorities, where appropriate, to Mr Ataollah Rezvani—a member of the much persecuted address the concerns raised by Ms Reyes’s lawyer about Bahai faith in Iran. I called publicly for the Iranian her continued detention. Most recently, on 28 August, Government to conduct a full investigation into his HM ambassador to the Dominican Republic wrote to death on 30 August. I will be monitoring developments the Attorney-General, about Ms Reyes’s detention and in this case closely. has requested a meeting to discuss the case. Jerusalem Stephen Doughty: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many UK Mr Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for citizens are being detained illegally in the Dominican Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether the UK Republic. [168499] has made representations to the Israeli authorities on the state of the Shu’fat refugee camp which is within Mr Swire: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office the Jerusalem municipality; if he will make a statement (FCO) is aware of 12 British citizens currently detained on the health of the inhabitants of the camp; and if he in the Dominican Republic following conviction. We will make a statement. [168498] are actively seeking clarification from the authorities in the Dominican Republican regarding the continued Alistair Burt: We are aware of the issue of sanitation detention, of one other British national. in Shu’fat refugee camp. We have made no representations to the Israeli authorities on this subject. Female Genital Mutilation Syria Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for he has had with the Secretary of State for the Home Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he Department on the practice of female genital mutilation. has received of attacks on the historic Christian town [168234] of Maaloula by elements of Syrian opposition forces; whether groups affiliated to or members of the Syrian Mr Lidington: The Secretary of State for Foreign and National Coalition (SNC) were involved in any such Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member attacks; and what representations he has made to the for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has regular SNC concerning toleration of religious minorities, conversations with Cabinet colleagues on a range of including the Christian minority in Syria. [168835] issues. The UK Government is clear that female genital mutilation is unacceptable wherever and whenever it Alistair Burt: On Thursday 5 September, unconfirmed occurs. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office works reports began to emerge of an attack on the regime-held with the Home Office, the Department of Health and town of Maaloula, in the Qalamoun hills some 35 miles the Department for Education to prevent female genital north-east of Damascus. According to these reports, on mutilation. the evening of Wednesday 4 September, the town was attacked by fighters from some extremist opposition Iran factions—including the AQ-linked Jabhat al-Nusra (JAN), Ahrar al-Sham and Ahfad al-Rasul. These attacks were Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for reportedly followed by regime shelling and air strikes. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what contacts To date there have been no confirmed reports of civilians there have been with representatives of the government being killed or churches desecrated. of Iran during the last 12 months; and if he will make a We regularly engage with the Syrian National Coalition statement. [168338] and the Supreme Military Council and continue to encourage them to respect all minority rights. The National Alistair Burt: Given the current level of diplomatic Coalition has committed to reaching out to minorities relations, there has been limited contact between the and has made clear that there will be a place for all UK and Iran over the last 12 months. UK officials have Syrians, regardless of ethnicity or religious belief, in a met their Iranian counterparts at E3+3 nuclear talks, future Syria. At the Friends of Syria meeting in Istanbul and in multilateral organisations. The Secretary of State on 20 April, the National Coalition set out clear for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. commitments on reaching out to minorities and to 843W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 844W guaranteeing the rights, interests and participation of Jeremy Wright: Legal aid is paid for by taxpayers and all components of Syrian society. During the visit of resources are not limitless, especially in the current Coalition President Al-Jarba on 5 September 2013, I economic climate and we have had to make some tough emphasised that the coalition should continue to show decisions. The reforms to legal aid contained in the their commitment to the safety of Christians, and other Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders minorities. Act 2012, implemented on 1 April 2013, safeguard legal aid to ensure legal advice is available for those who really need it. While the reforms may result in an increase in numbers JUSTICE of litigants in person (LiPs), it is not immediately evident that this will result in increased costs for the Electronic Tagging courts. The impact assessment which accompanied the Act set out a number of actions that the MOJ will, and is now, taking to monitor the impacts on the courts. Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice when he expects to (a) receive and (b) publish The Ministry of Justice has established a Litigants in the report of the audit by PricewaterhouseCoopers into Person Programme Board which, as part of its the electronic monitoring contracts held by G4S and responsibilities, monitors the impact of the legal aid changes in relation to litigants in person. The board Serco in England and Wales. [162827] includes members from Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) and the Judicial Office and will be Jeremy Wright: The Lord Chancellor and Secretary considering the impact of the changes on the effective of State for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member running of the courts and tribunals. There are no plans for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), received a to prepare or publish a report of the board’s work. preliminary audit report from PricewaterhouseCoopers in July, which informed his statement to the House on In addition, Ministers and officials in the MOJ meet this subject on 11 July 2013, Official Report, columns regularly with HMCTS and members of the judiciary 573-575. Auditors from PricewaterhouseCoopers are and will receive regular feedback on the impact of the now in the process of auditing every other contract the changes. Department holds with G4S and Serco. It would not be Furthermore, the Ministry of Justice’s Analytical appropriate to publish audit reports at this stage, in Services team has commissioned a research project to order to avoid prejudicing any subsequent investigations. develop the evidence base on the range of litigants in The Secretary of State will however continue to keep person in private law family cases, their behavioural Parliament informed. drivers, support needs and their impact on the court system. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The research includes two key elements: when his Department will publish the findings of its (1) a detailed analysis of all cases listed for a hearing in five inquiry into payments to G4S and Serco as part of the target courts over a three-week data collection period, involving contracts for provision of electronic tagging. [166072] observation of the hearings, interviews with the parties and the professionals associated with the case and scrutiny of the court Jeremy Wright: Auditors from PricewaterhouseCoopers file; and are now in the process of auditing every other contract (2) a local contextual study, designed to pick up the broader the Department holds with G4S and Serco. It would processes and perspectives relevant to litigants in person. not be appropriate to publish audit reports at this stage, The aim is to improve our understanding of the full in order to avoid prejudicing any subsequent investigations. range of cases involving litigants in person and how The Secretary of State will however continue to keep their needs are supported during the court process. Parliament informed. Finally, between 9 April and 4 June 2013 the Government consulted on a number of proposals to reform legal aid Legal Aid Scheme via the ‘Transforming Legal Aid: delivering a more credible and efficient system’ consultation. We have been clear we must continue to bear down on the cost of Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for legal aid, including nearly £1 billion of taxpayers’ money Justice how many applications for exceptional funding spent on criminal legal aid a year, to ensure we are under section 10 of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and getting the best deal for the taxpayer. The impact Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 have been granted assessments (IAs) published alongside the consultation by the Legal Aid Agency since 1 April 2013. [162492] paper contain the Government’s initial assessment of the impact of the proposals, including the data on Jeremy Wright: As of 27 June 2013, the Legal Aid which the assessments were made. We noted a potential Agency has granted exceptional funding in six cases. increase in litigants in person as a risk in the IAs, but Exceptional funding is available where a case is excluded the numbers were too uncertain to quantify and/or cost. from the scope of civil legal aid as defined in the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what assessment he has made, and on what Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice evidential basis, of the effect of the removal from scope whether his estimate of potential savings in the legal of (a) resettlement work and (b) work connected with aid budget assumes a potential increase in costs to the security categorisation arising from his Transforming court system arising from additional numbers of Legal Aid proposals; and if he will make a statement. litigants in person. [163373] [166154] 845W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 846W

Jeremy Wright: Between 9 April and 4 June 2013 the Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Government consulted on a number of proposals to Justice what assessment he has made, and on what reform legal aid via the “Transforming Legal Aid: delivering evidential basis, of the cost implications of an increase a more credible and efficient system” consultation. This in litigants in person in the court system as a result of included proposals to restrict the scope of legal aid for his Transforming Legal Aid proposal; and if he will prison law. We have been clear we must continue to bear make a statement. [166156] down on the cost of legal aid, including around £1 billion of taxpayers’ money spent on criminal legal aid Jeremy Wright: Between 9 April and 4 June 2013 the a year, to ensure we are getting the best deal for the Government consulted on a number of proposals to taxpayer and to address questions of public confidence reform legal aid via the “Transforming Legal Aid: delivering in the legal aid system. a more credible and efficient system” consultation . We have been clear we must continue to bear down on the Respondents to the consultation raised a number of cost of legal aid, including around £1 billion of taxpayers’ issues that will be addressed in the Government response, money spent on criminal legal aid a year, to ensure we due to be published shortly. are getting the best deal for the taxpayer. The impact assessments (IA) published alongside the The impact assessments (IAs) published alongside consultation paper contain the Government’s initial the consultation paper contain the Government’s initial assessment of the impact of the proposals, including assessment of the impact of the proposals, including the data on which the assessments were made. Specific the data on which the assessments were made. We noted assessments of the impact on resettlement work and a potential increase in litigants in person as a risk in the security categorisation decisions were not specifically IAs, but the numbers were too uncertain to quantify distinguished in the IA that covered the proposals for and/or cost. Updated impact assessments will be published prison law. Impact assessments will be published alongside alongside the forthcoming response, setting out the the forthcoming response, setting out the Government’s Government’s final assessment of the impact of the final assessment of the impact of the proposals to be proposals to be implemented. implemented. The Ministry of Justice (MOJ) has established a Litigants in Person Programme Board which is monitoring Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for the impact of the legal aid changes in relation to litigants Justice what assessment he has made, and on what in person. The board includes members from Her Majesty’s evidential basis, of (a) the amount of time prisoners Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS) and the judicial are likely to spend in custody and (b) the amount of office and will be considering the impact of the changes specialist law experience that will be available following on the effective running of the courts and tribunals. implementation of his Transforming Legal Aid proposals; In addition Ministers and officials in the MOJ meet and if he will make a statement. [166155] regularly with HMCTS and members of the judiciary and will receive regular feedback on the impact of the Jeremy Wright: Between 9 April and 4 June 2013 the changes. Government consulted on a number of proposals to reform legal aid via the “Transforming Legal Aid: delivering Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for a more credible and efficient system” consultation. This Justice what assessment he has made, and on what included proposals to restrict the scope of legal aid for evidential basis, of the costs associated with any increase prison law. We have been clear we must continue to bear in appeals and onwards challenges against refusals of down on the cost of legal aid, including around £1 funding, resulting from his Transforming Legal Aid billion of taxpayers’ money spent on criminal legal aid proposals; and if he will make a statement. [166157] a year, to ensure we are getting the best deal for the taxpayer and to address questions of public confidence Jeremy Wright: Between 9 April and 4 June 2013 the in the legal aid system. Government consulted on a number of proposals to reform legal aid via the “Transforming Legal Aid: delivering The Impact Assessments (IAs) published alongside a more credible and efficient system” consultation. We the consultation paper contain the Government’s initial have been clear we must continue to bear down on the assessment of the impact of the proposals, including cost of legal aid, to ensure we are getting the best deal that for prison law, and contain data on which the for the taxpayer and to address questions of public assessments were made. confidence in the legal aid system. Impact Assessments will be published alongside the The Impact Assessments (IAs) published alongside forthcoming response, setting out the Government’s the consultation paper contain the Government’s initial final assessment of the impact of the proposals to be assessment of the impact of the proposals, including implemented, although it should be noted that the the data on which the assessments were made. The Civil consultation did not propose any changes to current Credibility IA discusses appeals where it is relevant to sentencing policy. do so. Updated Impact Assessments will be published alongside the forthcoming response, setting out the We sought views from respondents to the consultation Government’s final assessment of the impact of the on the factors we should consider when designing the proposals to be implemented. criteria for any future procurement process for criminal legal aid contracts and these are now being considered. Magistrates’ Courts: Corby We have no intention of lowering the quality standards from current levels and therefore will ensure any specialist Andy Sawford: To ask the Secretary of State for skills or experience standards against which providers Justice what recent assessment he has made of the are currently assessed will as a minimum be maintained. future of Corby Magistrates’ Court. [168978] 847W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 848W

Mrs Grant: The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of Jeremy Wright: The Ministry of Justice owns the State for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for prison sites at Blundeston, Dorchester, Northallerton Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), has made no recent and Reading. assessment on the future of Corby magistrates court. Once the prisons have closed, consideration will be HMCTS keeps the use of its estates under review to given to potential future uses and disposal of the sites. ensure it meets operational requirements. Any new proposals No meetings with companies or organisations have yet to close courts beyond this would be subject to consultation. taken place. The market value of each of the sites has not been Oakwood Prison formally assessed. We seek to gain best value from the sale of all surplus assets. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many contract failures there have been at HM Prison Oakwood since it opened; what those failures Protection from Harassment Act 1997 were; and what financial penalties were attached to them. [165789] Mr Gibb: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) how many post-charge bail applications were (a) refused, Jeremy Wright: One improvement notice was issued (b) granted with conditions and (c) granted on 13 February 2013 requiring improvements to standards unconditionally in cases where a defendant has been of cleanliness, levels of mandatory drugs testing, levels charged with an offence contrary to the Protection from of purposeful activity, completion of the agreed searching Harassment Act 1997 in (i) 2012 and (ii) 2011; [168466] programme, and staffing numbers. (2) how many post-charge bail applications have From the date on which services commenced at the been (a) refused, (b) granted with conditions and (c) prison (24 April 2012) until the last calendar day of the granted unconditionally in cases where a defendant has same year (31 December 2012) performance points been charged with an offence against the person, in a were not applicable owing to the ″bedding-in period″ domestic context in (i) 2012 and (ii) 2011. [168491] specified in the contract. From January 2013 to March 2013: the number of performance points applicable for this quarter is currently under review owing to a requirement Mrs Grant: The Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings to clarify the means of interpreting the data involved in Database holds information on defendants proceeded calculating the number of points. against, found guilty and sentenced for criminal offences From April 2013 to June 2013: performance data is in England and Wales. Information collated centrally not yet finalised for this quarter, so the number of does not contain the result of a bail application. All performance points and the value of any associated courts will have a record of the result of individual bail financial penalties is currently unknown. applications. This information could be provided only ″ at disproportionate cost by manually reviewing court For the purposes of this answer I interpret contract records. Additionally it is not possible to identify domestic failures″ to mean ″improvement notices″ and ″performance ″ violence cases from other offences involving violence. points as these are the two primary mechanisms for This database holds information on offences provided responding to instances of performance below the by the statutes under which proceedings are brought contractually required standard. but not the specific circumstances of each case. Prisoners: Repatriation Sir Edward Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what discussions he has had with (a) the Secretary Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice of State for the Home Department, (b) the Attorney- how many foreign nationals were repatriated to their General, (c) the Lord Chief Justice and (d) Ministers home countries in 2012. [166069] and officials in his Department on further training for (i) police forces, (ii) the Crown Prosecution Service (iii) Jeremy Wright: In 2012, 4,765 foreign national offenders the Probation Service, (iv) magistrates and (v) judges on were removed from the United Kingdom. the application of sections 2A and 4A of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997; and if he will make a Prisons statement. [168833]

Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mrs Grant: The offences under sections 2A and 4A of (1) what estimate he has made of the likely income from the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 are the the sale of HMP (a) Blundeston, (b) Dorchester, (c) responsibility of the Home Office. Northallerton and (d) Reading; [168139] The Secretary of State for Justice is fully signed up to (2) who owns the (a) building and (b) land at HMP the Government Action Plan to End Violence Against (i) Blundeston, (ii) Dorchester, (iii) Northallerton and Women and Girls (VAWG) which includes an undertaking (iiv) Reading; [168140] to continue to raise awareness of stalking to improve (3) what meetings (a) Ministers and (b) officials in professionals’ response. his Department have had with companies or organisations Since the creation of the new stalking offences the in relation to the sale or purchase of HM Prison (i) Ministry of Justice has supported the Home Office in Blundeston, (ii) Dorchester, (iii) Northallerton and (iv) the development and delivery of training for practitioners Reading. [168174] and will continue to do so in this and other areas. 849W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 850W

Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Heath: Category 1 waste is animal by-product what plans he has to issue revised sentencing guidelines waste as defined in the EU Animal By-product Regulations in respect of new offences under sections 2A and 4A of 1069/2009. This includes specified risk material from the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. [168838] abattoirs, international catering waste, carcasses of pet and zoo animals, carcasses of ruminants at the point of Mrs Grant: The new stalking offences introduced by disposal and certain other animal by-products. this Government are designed to address specific stalking The vast majority of category 1 material will be sent behaviour as opposed to harassment more generally. for rendering or incineration. A list of approved rendering The new offence under section 4A of the Protection and incineration plants, including those that can handle from Harassment Act 1997 covers a course of conduct category 1 material, is maintained by Animal Health which causes serious alarm or distress which has a and Veterinary Laboratories Agency (AHVLA) and substantial adverse effect on the day-to-day activities of can be found at: the victim. This recognises the overall emotional and http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/disease-control/abp/ psychological harm that stalking may cause to victims, premises/ even where there is no explicit fear of violence. The maximum penalty for the section 2A offence is six AHVLA does not keep a list of companies that months’ imprisonment and for the section 4A offence exclusively handle category 1 waste. the maximum penalty is five years’ imprisonment. Other businesses that may handle category 1 animal The independent Sentencing Council is responsible by-products include hauliers, certain licensed landfill for producing sentencing guidelines and it will be for sites, approved handling premises and plants producing the Council to consider the issue of new or revised technical products. guidelines covering these offences. AHVLA does not keep a record of weights of category 1 material dealt with by each company. Rape: Victim Support Schemes Additionally, the Environment Agency issues permits to allow category 1 ABP waste to be disposed or treated Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for by incineration or rendering. Justice pursuant to the answer of 20 June 2013, Official Incineration Report, columns 653-5W, on rape: victim support schemes, how much was allocated from the Combined The Environment Agency permitted five incineration Fund (Sexual Violence) to Birmingham; and what facilities in England at the end of 2012 authorised to projects in Birmingham were funded from that fund. burn only ABP wastes. These were: [167411] Ancillary Components Ltd, Rushden EPR Thetford Ltd, Thetford Mrs Grant: The 2010-11 Combined Fund (Sexual Granox Ltd, Widnes Violence) provided £50,000 of funding to the Rape and Fibrogen Ltd, Flixborough Sexual Violence Project in Birmingham. University of Bristol Field Station, Langford. Up to 2015, this Government has ring-fenced nearly £40 million to fund specialist local domestic and sexual Total tonnage burnt at these incinerators between 2010 and 2012 violence support services and £1.5 million for victims of Tonnage incinerated gang-related sexual violence. 2010 826,893 2011 786,870 Trials: Human Rights 2012 739,497 Note: Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for This data is for all categories of ABP. We cannot distinguish category Justice how many cases were pursued in UK courts 1 ABPs alone from our records. under the Human Rights Act 1998 in the last year; how many such cases were pursued by (a) prisoners and Abattoirs and/or renderers (b) foreign nationals; and how many of those cases The Environment Agency permitted seven facilities were successful. [166207] in England at the end of 2012 authorised to render ABP Mrs Grant: A claim under the Human Rights Act wastes. 1998 could arise in any proceedings before a court or Some facilities are abattoirs and/or renderers and as tribunal, in addition to stand alone claims. No information such permitted maximum quantities accepted may be in is collected on such claims and therefore the information tonnes of ABP waste or numbers of animals. One or the requested is not available. other is given in the following table: Maximum tonnage or number of animals allowed to be accepted under the permit ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Company Tonnage/number

Animal Products: Waste Disposal Anglo Beef Processors, Shrewsbury 90,000 cattle Demulder & Son Ltd, Nuneaton 250,000 tonnes : To ask the Secretary of State for Granox Ltd, Widnes 150,000 tonnes Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which UK companies John Pointon & Sons Ltd No limit are licensed to deal with category 1 waste; and how Neerock Ltd, Colne 35,900 tonnes many tonnes of category 1 waste (a) in total and (b) Neerock Ltd, Spalding 50 tonnes per day from abattoirs in the UK each such company dealt with Sun Valley Foods Ltd, Hereford 900,000 chickens per week in each of the last three years. [168463] 851W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 852W

Further work would be required to be carried out to robust and policy-relevant monitoring protocols. The collate actual annual quantities accepted over the last results of this monitoring will be published after the three years as this information is not held centrally. pilot culls have been completed. Abattoirs Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for The Environment Agency permits 65 facilities for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much of the slaughtering animals with a capacity of >50 tonnes per £500,000 allocated by his Department for badger day in England. vaccination has been distributed to farmers in the cull Further work would need to be carried out to collate areas to date. [168477] the data on the quantity of ABP waste produced by the facilities as this information is not held centrally. Mr Heath: The Badger Vaccination Fund (£250,000 p.a.) has been open for two years. Only vaccination Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for schemes in the pilot cull areas were eligible to apply in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many year one, when £6,302.80 was distributed. In year two tonnes of category 1 waste was produced by abattoirs DEFRA broadened the criteria to include the whole of in the UK in each of the last three years. [168464] the high risk TB area and publicised this particularly among wildlife groups with an interest in badger Mr Heath: The keeping of records of quantities of vaccination. A number of grants have already been each category of animal by-product despatched from awarded and others are under consideration but the an establishment is the responsibility of the individual amount distributed will only be known after the vaccination Food Business Operator (FBO). Food Standards Agency has taken place and claims submitted. (FSA) staff monitor the FBO’s compliance with the requirements of the Animal By-Products Regulations Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for (EC) No 1069/2009 but there is no requirement for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many monitors FSA to maintain records of everything that leaves the have been employed by Natural England to monitor the premises. humaneness of the pilot badger culls. [168484] While the FSA does monitor quantities of specified risk material produced in bovine and ovine slaughterhouses Mr Heath: Natural England is responsible for ensuring at a local level, this information is used to determine the licence conditions are complied with. Humaneness frequency of inspections and is not held centrally. observations, which are being conducted independently There are no specific Category 2 rendering plants of Natural England, are being carried out on a statistically now in the UK meaning that all waste leaving plants is significant number of occasions. either Category 1 or Category 3. Category 1 material is therefore likely to contain Category 2 by-products that Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for cannot be included in Category 3 collection systems. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on what date the findings of the trial badger cull will be published. Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for [169019] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the most common final end uses of category 1 waste after processing Mr Heath: A report to Ministers on the outcome of were in each of the last three years. [168465] pilot culls will be published after the culls have been completed and following a review of the results by an Mr Heath: The most common final use of the meat independent panel of experts. and bone meal (MBM) and tallow produced by processing Food: Prices category 1 waste is likely to be burning for heat and electricity. Some category 1 tallow may also be used in the production of biodiesel. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what Processing plants are approved for the purpose by discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency Health on developing a food pricing policy that tackles (AHVLA). AHVLA does not retain records to verify food poverty alongside public health concerns. [168566] the final end use from all processing plants. Bovine Tuberculosis Mr Heath: I recently met with the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Public Health to ensure a coherent approach across Government. This includes Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for work to provide consumers with the information with Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for what proportion which to make choices about healthy, sustainable and of badgers exterminated during the current pilot cull affordable diets. the humaneness of extermination will be measured and recorded. [168096] Through the Public Health Responsibility Deal, the Government is working with business and others to Mr Heath: The cull is compliant with the Bern encourage and enable people to adopt a healthier diet, Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and through schemes such as Love Food Hate Waste and Natural Habitats, and the hon. Member’s reference helping both businesses and individuals make healthy to extermination is therefore inappropriate. Humaneness and affordable choices and save money. monitoring will be undertaken in accordance with a We also work internationally to promote transparency, protocol developed with advice from statistical experts open global markets and a competitive domestic market and approved by the independent experts panel set up to help producers and retailers offer the best prices to by DEFRA to oversee the development of scientifically consumers. 853W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 854W

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Jo Swinson: The Department for Business Innovation for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps and Skills (BIS) does not employ anyone directly on a the Government is taking to help make fresh fruit and zero-hours contract. The information cannot be provided vegetables more affordable. [168567] for employees of other companies without disproportionate cost. Mr Heath: We work across Government to provide consumers with the information with which to make Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, choices about healthy, sustainable and affordable diets. Innovation and Skills which stakeholders have met Ministers or officials of his Department to date as part of his The School Fruit and Vegetable Scheme gives free Department’s review of zero-hours contracts; on what fruit and vegetables to over 2 million children, and date and with whom each such meeting took place; through ’Healthy Start’ the Government provides a which stakeholders have submitted written evidence to nutritional safety net, in a way that encourages healthy that review; and on what date each such submission was eating, to more than half a million pregnant women received. [168921] and children under four years old in very low income and disadvantaged families throughout the UK. Through Jo Swinson: I refer the hon. Member to the reply I the Public Health Responsibility Deal the Government gave to him on 6 September 2013, Official Report, is working with business and others to encourage and column 535W. enable people to eat more fruit and vegetables. The review on zero hours was a fact finding exercise We also work internationally to promote transparency, officials undertook to understand and explore zero open global markets and a competitive domestic market hours contracts. As this was not a call for evidence nor a to help producers and retailers offer the best prices to consultation, stakeholders did not submit written evidence. consumers. Cosmetics: Labelling Livestock: Transport Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what advice his Department Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for what reason has issued to (a) retailers and (b) importers on the an Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency correct implementation for cosmetic products of the inspection at Dover port found a non-compliance issue mandatory origin labelling requirements of EU Regulation with a lorry carrying sheep from travelling on the Joline 1223/2009. [168490] to France on 4 September 2013; and whether that lorry Jo Swinson: No specific advice has been issued to had been inspected at point of loading under the retailers and importers of cosmetics, as country of supervised loading scheme. [168426] origin labelling was specified in the previous regulation, the Cosmetic Products (Safety) Regulations 2008, guidance Mr Heath: The vehicle in question was not supervised for which highlighted this requirement. at loading and was therefore subject to an inspection by the Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency Industry at Dover port, which identified vehicle approval irregularities and breaches of the technical rules set out in Annex I to Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Council Regulation (EC) 1/2005. Consequently, it was Innovation and Skills with reference to his speech of prohibited from continuing its journey. 11 September 2012 at Imperial College London, whether he still plans to publish specific sector strategy documents for (a) the digital and creative industries and (b) advanced manufacturing. [168919] BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Michael Fallon: I refer the hon. Member to the written Business: Billing statement made yesterday, 11 September 2013, Official Report, columns 49-50WS. Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, The Government set out its approach to industrial Innovation and Skills how many officials of his Department strategy in September 2012. In the last 12 months we are working on plans to introduce a fine for late payment. have published strategies in eleven sectors where our [168920] economic analysis demonstrates we can have the biggest impact. A number of these strategies focus on advanced Michael Fallon: As indicated in my previous answer manufacturing. The Information Economy Strategy covers given to the hon. Member on 11 September 2013, the digital sector. Beyond this our approach is about Official Report, columns 738-39W, officials are still supporting all sectors through a spectrum of support. considering a range of options to tackle ongoing late This includes assistance to the creative sector through payment problems. the work of Creative Industries Council. Offshore Industry Conditions of Employment Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will seek assurances from Innovation and Skills how many staff (a) directly employed (a) employers and (b) licensed operators in the UK and (b) indirectly employed through other companies continental shelf that offshore workers who refuse to by his Department were employed on zero-hours contracts board Super Puma helicopters will not be blacklisted as in each of the last 10 years. [168270] a result. [168302] 855W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 856W

Jo Swinson: Any form of blacklisting is illegal. Jo Swinson: The Office of Fair Trading has in the last With regards to the health and safety of offshore year been looking at supermarket pricing promotions workers, the Government provides health and safety to ensure they are fair and meaningful and last year legislation and employment legislation as a framework eight supermarkets agreed to a set of principles covering for employers to operate in. these: Employees are entitled by law to refuse to undertake http://www.oft.gov.uk/news-and-updates/press/2012/116-12 work that is not safe without fear of disciplinary action. In its market investigation into the supply of groceries Employers have a duty of care to their employees, in the UK completed in 2008, the Competition Commission requiring them to take all steps reasonably possible to looked at the competition implications of below-cost ensure their health, safety and wellbeing. selling and promotions. It concluded that these did not adversely affect competition or mislead consumers and It is for employers to ensure they are acting within the could benefit shoppers—although without examining law and for the regulators and employment tribunal to the effect on any specific category of customer. The CC determine if the employer has broken the law. noted that temporary promotions on some products to attract consumers and increase total sales (commonly Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, referred to as loss leading) may constitute efficient Innovation and Skills if he will discuss with the Secretary pricing for grocery retailers and that such competition of State for Energy and Climate Change brokering a between grocery retailers may benefit consumers by formal agreement between employers’ representatives reducing the average price for a basket of products. and trades unions representing the offshore workforce on regular trade union access to employees in the offshore Trade Missions workplace. [168303] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Jo Swinson: It is largely a matter for individual employers Innovation and Skills what the (a) date and (b) location to decide whether they wish to recognise a trade union was of each overseas trade mission to promote British for collective bargaining purposes. Most collective exports in which UK Trade and Industry was involved bargaining in this country takes place because employers in each month since May 2010; and which of those have voluntarily agreed to recognise a trade union and trade missions were attended by each Minister. [168918] bargain with it. The Department has not received any representations indicating a need for Government Michael Fallon: The information requested will be intervention with regard to trade union access to offshore placed in the Libraries of the House. workers. Agreements for recognition, and what these recognition agreements contain, including trade union facility time TRANSPORT and access to members who work at different locations, including offshore as in this case, are a matter for the Bus Services parties concerned. The Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (ACAS) has produced helpful practical 12. Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for guidance to assist both employers and trade unions in Transport what support he will provide for local bus this area. The ACAS Code of ‘Practice on time off for services; and if he will make a statement. [900281] trade union duties and activities’ and its guidance ‘Trade union representation in the workplace: a guide to managing Norman Baker: The coalition Government already time off, training and facilities’ are available online at: makes substantial sums of money available to support http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2391 local bus services. We are also implementing various reforms to make this more effective. In July we announced The Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service arrangements to give local councils more say over how (ACAS) stands ready to assist the parties to resolve any bus service operators grant should be spent in their disagreement or dispute, should they wish it. areas. And, we aim to incentivise more partnership working through Better Bus Areas. Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills when his Department Road Funding last conducted a review of employment rights in the offshore oil and gas sector. [168304] 13. Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what assessment he has made of the effect of Jo Swinson: The Department reviewed the legislation the 2013 spending review on road funding; and if he relating to offshore workers as part of the Government’s will make a statement. [900282] Red Tape Challenge to reduce unnecessary regulation. As a result we will be simplifying the secondary legislation, Stephen Hammond: The Government will invest over which includes the employment rights in the offshore oil £28 billion in national and local roads between 2015-16 and gas sector, by summer 2014. and 2020-21. This includes £10.7 billion for major national road projects, £4.9 billion for local major projects and Supermarkets: Prices more than £12 billion for maintenance, with nearly £6 billion for repairs to local roads and £6 billion for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State maintenance of the strategic road network, including for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make an resurfacing 80% of it. This step change in investment assessment of the extent to which supermarkets offering will fund at least 26 further major road projects, leading discounts on bulk purchases benefits consumers on low to more than 221 additional lane miles on the busiest budgets. [168568] motorways. 857W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 858W

Maritime Sector Norman Baker: The Coalition Government has done a huge amount to encourage and support cycling in England. Since 2010, we have provided over £277m of 16. : To ask the Secretary of State for funding directly for cycling, almost twice that provided Transport what plans the Government has to promote by the previous administration, and have allocated £600m shipping, ports and the maritime business sector in the to the Local Sustainable Transport Fund, where 94 out UK. [900285] of the 96 projects include a cycling element. I champion cycling within Government and work closely with local Stephen Hammond: London International Shipping authorities, cycling groups and Ministers across Whitehall Week is taking place this week. The Government have to encourage more people to cycle more safely, more given full support to this inaugural event to showcase often. UK maritime business—a growing sector which is already worth up to £14 billion a year to the economy and Great Western Railway Line provides 263,000 jobs. We will continue to work closely with the maritime industry to ensure the UK holds and builds on its leading global position in a world of Mr Rob Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for increasingly strong competition. Transport what progress his Department has made on procuring new rolling stock for the Great Western Line; Croydon Tramlink and if he will make a statement. [900286]

Paul Burstow: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr McLoughlin: The Department has let a contract Transport what discussions his Department has had to Agility Trains to supply 369 vehicles from its Intercity with the Mayor of London on the extension of the Express Programme for long-distance Great Western services. These vehicles will be introduced to passenger South London Tramlink to Sutton town centre. [168580] service during 2017 and 2018. The Department is also in dialogue with First Great Western to procure electric Norman Baker: The Secretary of State for Transport vehicles for Thames Valley commuter services from discusses a wide range of transport issues with the 2016. These vehicles may be new-build or cascaded Mayor of London on a regular basis. The extension of from elsewhere on the national network. the South London Tramlink to Sutton Town Centre is entirely a devolved matter for the London Borough of Sutton Council and the Mayor, but I always welcome High Speed 2 Railway Line consideration of new light rail infrastructure. Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for Cycling Transport when he plans to launch the re-run consultation on compensation for those affected by the High Speed 2 scheme; and when he expects a new discretionary scheme Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for to be in place. [168470] Transport what steps he is taking to increase funding to encourage the uptake of cycling at the level of the European average. [168294] Mr Simon Burns: The consultation on long-term property compensation for Phase One of HS2 has been launched today.The consultation will run until 4 December Norman Baker: The Coalition Government’s level of 2013 and, following a period of analysis and consideration, funding for cycling compares very favourably with other the Government expects to put in place any resulting European countries. In this Parliament we have allocated discretionary schemes by summer 2014. £3.50 (¤4.20) per person per year to cycling (based on £277 million invested since 2010 directly for cycling and the £600 million allocated for the Local Sustainable Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport Fund where 94 out of 96 projects contain a Transport how many responses were received to (a) the cycling element). For example, research by the European draft Environmental Statement and (b) the Design Cyclists’ Federation states that national funding in Denmark Refinement Consultation for phase one of the High is only around ¤4 and around ¤3 in the Netherlands—two Speed 2 scheme. [168471] countries recognised for their commitment to cycling. Since February 2012 the Government has made an Mr Simon Burns: The draft Environmental Statement additional £159 million available for cycling infrastructure consultation received 20,944 valid responses and the in England. As part of this, through the £77 million Design Refinement consultation received 869. Summary Cycling Ambition Grants, eight cities across England reports outlining the range of issues raised in responses will receive an investment in cycling in excess of £10 per to both consultations will follow in due course. head per year. Along with local contributions, this equates to £18 per head of population across the funding Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport period. City areas that will benefit are: Greater Manchester, when the consultation on compensation for Phase 1 of West Yorkshire, Birmingham, West of England, Newcastle, High Speed 2 will be issued by his Department. [168565] Cambridge, Norwich and Oxford. Mr Simon Burns: The consultation on long-term Barbara Keeley: To ask the Secretary of State for compensation measures for Phase One of HS2 has been Transport what steps he is taking to support cycling. launched today.The consultation will run until 4 December [900270] 2013. 859W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 860W

Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Alliance (trade union). I do not therefore see any value Transport what assessment he has made of the (a) in my visiting Northern Ireland at this time. However, I economic and (b) transport benefits to the West and am always happy to discuss any concerns that hon. South West of High Speed 2. [168575] Members may have. Indeed, this morning at Transport Questions in the House I committed to meet with the Mr Simon Burns: No specific assessment has been hon. Members for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and East made of the direct benefits to the West and South West Londonderry (Mr Campbell) to discuss this very issue. of High Speed 2. Nevertheless, High Speed 2 will provide enhanced connectivity to this region in Phase 1 through Railways: Franchises the link to the West Coast Mainline and hub at Old Oak Common. Phase 2 will provide further connectivity John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for enhancements, particularly to passengers from the south Transport if he will place copies of (a) the proposed and south west of the country wishing to travel north. revision to the passenger service requirement for the There is also, potential for more commuter, freight and Transpennine franchise from May 2014 and (b) the local services to this area from capacity released on the responses received from consultees in the Library. existing network. [168914] HS2 Ltd recently published a report they had commissioned from KPMG evaluating the potential Mr Simon Burns: The Passenger Service Requirement impact of HS2 on productivity and business location. (PSR) from May 2014 is contained within the Transpennine The report estimates that in areas of the country not in Express Franchise Agreement. This is a public document the immediate vicinity of the HS2 route (which includes available via the DfT website at: the areas south and south west of HS2 as well as the https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ areas north of Leeds and Manchester), HS2 could attachment_data/file/229572/transpennine-express-franchise- generate productivity benefits of between £5.0 billion agreement.pdf and £7.0 billion per annum. The changes to the PSR were subject to consultation with transport authorities during the summer. The Large Goods Vehicles consultation period of 12 weeks ended on 31 July. The consultation on the PSR is the sole responsibility Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for of First Transpennine Express, who are not obliged to Transport what consideration he has given to banning forward the responses to the DfT. First Transpennine lorries from overtaking on motorways and dual Express have made amendments to their timetable plans carriageways. [900273] in light of stakeholders’ comments. First Transpennine Express are reviewing the responses received by the Stephen Hammond: There are no plans for generalised consultation deadline and checking with respondents to overtaking bans on motorways and dual carriageways. ascertain what information can be placed in the Library. An overtaking ban was installed for 18 months on two miles of the westbound A20 dual carriageway leading uphill away from Dover. The experimental A20 ban was monitored, but there was no evidence of discernable WOMEN AND EQUALITIES benefits and so it was discontinued in September 2011. The Highways Agency continues to monitor this area Castes for any changes in circumstances that may warrant a review. Richard Fuller: To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities what meetings her Department has had Motor Vehicles: Northern Ireland regarding the caste legislation introduction programme and timeline. [168090] Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will visit Northern Ireland to meet the Mrs Grant: Since the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform hon. Member for North Down and other local Bill received Royal Assent on 25 April, Officials from politicians to discuss the retention of vehicle licensing the Government Equalities Office have attended meetings services in Northern Ireland. [168527] with both the Equality and Human Rights Commission and, at their request, the Anti-Caste Legislation Campaign. Stephen Hammond: I have met with the relevant Northern Ireland Executive Minister for the Environment Television: Licensing twice to discuss the proposals in the consultation on the future delivery of vehicle registration and licensing Mr Hollobone: To ask the Minister for Women and services in Northern Ireland. Discussions have also Equalities if she will discuss with (a) the Department taken place between the Secretary of State for Northern for Culture, Media and Sport and (b) the Ministry of Ireland and her counterparts from the Northern Ireland Justice the proportion of those prosecuted for television Executive about these proposals. licence non-payment who are women. [167716] In addition, DVLA officials have carried out a number of workshops throughout the consultation process to Mrs Grant: The Government Equalities Office (GEO) encourage Northern Ireland customers and stakeholders became part of the Department for Culture, Media and to respond with their views on the proposals in the Sport in September 2012 and hence issues relating to consultation. The DVLA’s Chief Executive met with equality are the responsibility of the Secretary of State the DVA’s Chief Executive last week, along with a for Culture, Media and Sport (who is also the Minister delegation from the Northern Ireland Public Services for Women and Equalities). 861W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 862W

The interpretation and application of the legislation Mr Vaizey: 39 local broadband contracts have now on TV licensing are the responsibility of the BBC, been signed under our rural broadband programme, which operates independently of Government. The day representing over 95% of the total project funding to day administration and enforcement of the licence allocations. A further three projects are due to sign fee system are undertaken by TV Licensing, which acts contracts in September. 10 projects have already provided as agents for the Corporation. TV Licensing do not their first superfast broadband connections, including hold gender specific data on prosecutions. North Yorkshire where over 50,000 premises have been passed to date, and delivery is now moving ahead elsewhere across the country. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Christmas Cards Accountancy Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport how much her private ministerial Culture, Media and Sport how much her Department office spent on sending Christmas cards in 2012. has spent on accountants in each year since 2010. [168677] [168588] Hugh Robertson: No money was spent on Christmas Hugh Robertson: The expenditure on accountants for cards in the Secretary of State’s office. the financial years 2010 to 11 and 2012 to 13 is as follows: Cycling

Total (£) Ms Ritchie: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what funding her Department provides 2010 to 11 981,787 for cycling infrastructure development. [168389] 2011 to 12 1,245,268 2012 to 13 1,408,239 Hugh Robertson: As part of our commitment to a The costs above include the staff costs of qualified create a lasting sporting legacy from the 2012 Olympic accountants, employed by the Department, interim staff and Paralympic Games, we are investing considerably and accountancy consultants. They exclude any general in cycling. management consultancy costs, the analysis of which Between 2009 and 2013, Sport England has invested would involve disproportionate cost to extract to cost of over £21 million in velodromes and BMX track cycling accountancy advice. facilities. This included £10.5 million invested into the The increased costs in the financial years 2011 to 12 London Velodrome on the Queen Elizabeth Park to and 2012 to 13 arise from the additional work required ensure it is open to the community following the London to implement HM Treasury’s “Clear line of sight” 2012 Games. Through Sport England, we are investing requirements to produce consolidated departmental £32 million in British cycling for the period 2013 to 17 accounts that comply with the appropriate International to get more people cycling and help talented cyclists Financial Reporting Standards. fulfil their potential. Air Travel UK Sport is investing £30.5 million into Olympic cycling and £6.7 million into Paralympic cycling for the Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Rio 2016 cycle (2013 to 17) to ensure that British Culture, Media and Sport how many individual cyclists on the sport’s World Class Programme have domestic air flights were undertaken within Great access to the best facilities, coaches and medical support, Britain by representatives of (a) her Department and enabling them to compete and win at the highest level as (b) its associated public bodies in the most recent year they aim to emulate the success of the British teams at for which figures are available; and what the cost to the London 2012. We are also supporting the delivery of public purse of each such flight was. [168767] the Yorkshire Grand Depart and Stage 3 of the 2014 Tour de France. Hugh Robertson: The Department undertook 116 domestic flights within Great Britain in 2012 to 13 at a Lotteries total cost of £19,587. This is broken down as follows: Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Less than £100—46 flights at a total cost of £2,661.14 Culture, Media and Sport (1) what recent assessment she has made of the minimum amount of proceeds that Between £100 and £249—46 flights at a total cost of £7,508.59 society lotteries must return to good causes; [168420] Between £250 and £499—22 flights at a total cost of £8,320.68 More than £500—2 flights at a total cost of £1,097.28 (2) when she plans to publish the Government’s response to its consultation on the amount society All flights were economy class. The Department does lotteries give to good causes. [168421] not hold this information centrally for its associated bodies. Hugh Robertson: DCMS will be publishing a consultation Broadband: Rural Areas on society lotteries, which will include consideration of the minimum amount of proceeds that a society lottery Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for has to return to good causes, in the autumn. The Culture, Media and Sport what recent progress she has Government response to the consultation will be published made on her rural broadband strategy; and if she will after the consultation has closed, which is likely to be in make a statement. [169038] early 2014. 863W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 864W

Jim Sheridan: To ask the Secretary of State for Arm’s length body Chief executive’s salary (£) Culture, Media and Sport for what reason the charity lottery sector was not included in the most recent Royal Museums Greenwich 105,000 to 110,000 triennial review of the Gambling Act 2005; and what S4C 132,000 plans she has to provide for a review of revenues and Science Museum Group 1130,000 prizes in the charity lottery sector. [168555] Sir John Soane’s Museum 65,000 Sport England 145,000 to 150,000 Hugh Robertson: The recent Triennial Review was Sports Grounds Safety Authority 65,000 limited to Gaming Machine Stake and Prize Limits, Wallace Collection 85,000 to 90,000 and so the charity lottery sector was not within its UK Anti to Doping 190,000 to 95,000 remit. DCMS will be publishing a consultation on UK Sport 130,000 to 135,000 society lotteries, which will include consideration of the Victoria and Albert Museum 140,000 to 145,000 minimum amount of proceeds that a society lottery has Visit Britain 145,000 to 150,000 to return to good causes, in the autumn. The limits on Visit England 135,000 to 140,000 society lottery prizes will not be within the remit of the 1 These figures include annual performance bonuses, which it is not possible to consultation. separate out. Publishing National Lottery: Ashfield Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport how much her Department Culture, Media and Sport how much National Lottery has spent in each of the last three years on hard copy funding was given to organisations in Ashfield printing of documents for external audiences. [168624] constituency in each of the last five years. [169025] Hugh Robertson: The Department for Culture, Media Hugh Robertson: Details of Lottery grants, awarded and Sport does not hold data on the specific information by parliamentary constituency, since Lottery funding requested. Expenditure, relating to all charges for printing began, can be found on the Department for Culture, and publications for external audiences, is as follows: Media and Sport’s (DCMS) Lottery Grants Database, which is searchable at: Account name—publications and printing £ www.lottery.culture.gov.uk and uses information on Lottery grants, supplied by the 2010 to 11 58,821.30 Lottery distributors. 2011 to 12 138,201.83 2012 to 13 122,161.90 Pay The reason for the increase in expenditure in 2011 to 12 is due to a number of additional publications, produced David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for as part of the Department’s reporting on the London Culture, Media and Sport if she will publish a table 2012 Olympics and Paralympic Games. Information on showing the salaries of the chief executive of each 2012 to 13 includes costs for the Government Equalities organisation that receives more than 50% of its revenue Office (GEO), which was transferred to DCMS from from her Department. [166845] the Home Office in the 2012 to 13 financial year. Previous years data for GEO is contained within the Hugh Robertson: The following table shows the salaries accounts of the Home Office. of the chief executive of each arm’s length body that receives more than 50% of its revenue from the Department, Standards including national lottery money based on figures included in their 2012 to 13 annual reports and accounts. In some cases, this will show a range, rather than a single figure: Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport when her Department plans Arm’s length body Chief executive’s salary (£) to publish its Quarterly Data Summary for the first quarter of 2012 to 13. [168855] Arts Council England 155,000 British Film Institute 1135,000 to 140,000 Hugh Robertson: DCMS is continuing to work British Library 1140,000 to 145,000 proactively; substantially improving the collection of English Heritage 1161,000 Management Information across the department for Equality and Human Rights 125,000 to 130,000 Quarterly Data Summary reporting. DCMS financial Commission spend data for 2012 to 13, including the first quarter, is Geffrye Museum 64,383 already available online through the Government Horniman Public Museum and 95,000 to 100,000 Public Park Trust Interrogating Spending Tool, in line with other Government Imperial War Museum 130000 to 135,000 Departments. National Gallery 140,000 National Heritage Memorial Fund 130,000 to 135,000 Television National Lottery Commission 110,000 to 115,000 National Museums Liverpool 1105,000 to 110,000 Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Natural History Museum 180,000 to 185,000 Culture, Media and Sport how many flat screen televisions Ofcom 276,066 have been purchased by her Department in the last Public Lending Right 63,890 24 months; and what the cost to the public purse was of Royal Armouries 95,000 such purchases. [168749] 865W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 866W

Hugh Robertson: The Department has not purchased DECC has a target to ensure the annual working any flat screen TVs in the past 24 months. days lost figure remains below the civil service average, which it has met. Travel Buildings Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport how much her Department Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for spent on travel for departmental officials in each of the Energy and Climate Change what refurbishments to his last five years. [169010] Department’s buildings have been carried out in the last 24 months; and at what cost. [168802] Hugh Robertson: The total amounts spent on travel and subsistence, for departmental officials, in each of Gregory Barker: DECC have not undertaken any the last five years, are set out in the table. Due to the large scale building refurbishment work in the last 24 conventions used in the Department’s accounting system months but has carried out smaller refurbishment projects. it is not possible to identify the travel element separately Primarily to redecorate after wear and tear or to increase from accommodation and subsistence costs. the capacity and efficiency of the estate. These are listed below: Value (£) Item Cost1 (£) 2008 to 09 380,209 Creation of office 10,278.67 2009 to 10 260,269 Basement decoration works 2,778.05 2010 to 11 110,631 Various shower installations to improve 104,127.6 2011 to 12 338,227 facilities for cyclists, etc. 2012 to 13 451,313 Decoration works 10,064.04 These figures include all official travel costs for the Carpet tile installation 3,141.43 Government Olympic Executive, during preparations Decoration works 58,198.9 for and delivery of London 2012. Figures for 2012 to 13 Decoration works 11,913.52 and 2011 to 12 include functions transferred from the Kitchen replacements 68,806.01 Department for Business Innovation and Skills from Flooring replacements 20,166.02 2011 to 12 and functions of the Government Equalities Skirting and decoration 2,446.2 Office transferred to DCMS in 2012 to 13, but data for Decoration works 10,826.52 earlier years is not available for either of these areas. Various basement plant rooms floor 18,479.00 The effect of these machinery of government changes painting was to increase costs by £125,096 in 2011 to 12 and Total 321,225.96 £152,566 in 2012 to 13. 1 Including VAT. Conditions of Employment

Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE and Climate Change how many staff (a) directly employed and (b) indirectly employed through other companies Absenteeism by his Department were employed on zero-hours contracts in each of the last 10 years. [168277] Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the rates of staff (a) Gregory Barker: DECC was created in October 2008. absence and (b) sickness absence in his Department in DECC has not employed staff either directly or indirectly each of the past five years were; and what the on zero-hour contracts from 2008 to the present day. departmental targets were in each case. [168734] Employment Agencies Gregory Barker: Staff who joined DECC before 31 March 2013 are entitled to 31½ days annual leave per Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for year; staff who joined after that date are entitled to a Energy and Climate Change how many staff working in maximum of 30 days annual leave per year. There are his Department are employed through agencies using no targets on how much leave will be taken. DECC does the Swedish Derogation; how many staff receive less not hold centrally information on annual leave taken than the living wage; and if he will make a statement. and to answer this question would incur disproportionate [168138] costs. The following table shows the number of days sickness Gregory Barker: The Department has received assurance absence recorded for DECC. from the agencies providing contract staff that they do not use the Swedish Derogation for employees they As at 1 April to 31 March each place with DECC and that no members of staff are year Average working days lost earning less than the London or national living wage guidelines. 2009-10 4.4 2010-11 3.1 Facilities management and catering services are provided 2011-12 3.6 to DECC through contracts managed by the Department 2012-13 2.7 for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA). There are 21 staff based primarily in DECC buildings 867W Written Answers12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Written Answers 868W working for the facilities management contractor and Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and six working for the catering contractor who receive less Climate Change does not subscribe to any premium than the London living wage. satellite television channels. Green Deal Scheme: Ashfield Security

Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many people in Energy and Climate Change how many departmental Ashfield constituency have received the Green Deal to identity cards or passes have been reported lost or date. [168999] stolen by staff in his Department since May 2010. [168608] Gregory Barker: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given on 5 July 2013, Official Report, column 823W, Gregory Barker: Since May 2010 there have been 100 to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana staff passes that have been lost or stolen. Berger), which referred to a table placed in the Libraries Standards of the House showing the number of Green Deal Assessments by parliamentary constituency up to 31 March 2013. Up to 31 March 2013 there were 10 Green Deal Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Assessments in the Ashfield constituency. Energy and Climate Change what the reasons are for Numbers of assessments by parliamentary constituency, the time taken to publish his Department’s Quarterly up to 30 June 2013, will be included in the next quarterly Data Summary for the second quarter of 2012-13 and Green Deal/ECO statistical release which will be published the third quarter of 2012-13. [168819] on 19 September. Subsequent quarterly releases are also likely to provide more detailed breakdowns on Green Gregory Barker: The quarter 2 and quarter 3 Quarterly Deal Plans. Data Summary (QDS) returns of all 17 Departments participating in the QDS process were delayed owing to Publications the development of the Cabinet Office’s Government Interrogating Spending Tool (GIST). Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for The GIST was developed in response to Energy and Climate Change how much his Department recommendations made in Dr Martin Read’s independent has spent in each of the last three years on hard copy report entitled ‘Practical Steps to Improve Management printing of documents for external audiences. [168626] Information in Government’. The GIST is an online tool that allows the public to Gregory Barker: In common with other Government access a breakdown of government expenditure through Departments, the Department for Energy and Climate the GOV.UK website. It makes the process of accessing Change publishes documents communicating and reporting and analysing complex QDS and OSCAR data easier on a wide range of policies and initiatives, including and quicker, and for these reasons was seen to justify a consultation documents and the Department’s Annual short delay in publishing QDS data. Report. However, the information on expenditure is not centrally Television held and it would only be possible to gather this information at disproportionate cost. Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many flat screen Satellite Broadcasting televisions have been purchased by his Department in the last 24 months; and what the cost to the public Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for purse was of such purchases. [168751] Energy and Climate Change what subscriptions his Department has for premium satellite television channels; Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and and what the cost of each such subscription was in the Climate Change has not purchased any flat-screen most recent year for which figures are available. [168643] televisions in the last 24 months. 13MC Ministerial Corrections12 SEPTEMBER 2013 Ministerial Corrections 14MC

In both circumstances however this is unquantifiable Ministerial Correction as the behavioural response of providers and clients is unknown. Thursday 12 September 2013 Regarding possibility of increased applications for costs from public authority opponents, it is already the case that providers should generally agree costs as part of a settlement or seek a costs order form the court, as JUSTICE they would if acting for a privately paying client. This is Legal Aid Scheme set out in paragraph 6.58 of the 2013 Standard Civil Contract General Specification. Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for The consultation closed on 4 June 2013 and we Justice what assessment he has made, in calculating the intend to publish a Government response shortly. likely costs or savings arising from his Transforming The correct answer should have been: Legal Aid proposals, of the possibility of (a) increased applications for permission for judicial review and (b) increased applications for costs from public Jeremy Wright: At around £2 billion a year we have authority opponents, if lawyers are not paid unless one of the most expensive legal aid systems of its type permission for judicial review is granted; what the in the world. The consultation paper ‘Transforming evidential basis was for that assessment; and if he will Legal Aid: delivering a more credible and efficient system’, contained a range of measures aimed at reducing make a statement. [166141] the cost of and promoting public confidence in the legal [Official Report, 10 September 2013, Vol. 567, c. 689-92W.] aid scheme, including a proposal that providers would Letter of correction from Jeremy Wright: only be paid for work on an application for permission An error has been identified in the written answer to proceed with a judicial review if permission is granted given to the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline by the court. Lucas) on 10 September 2013. We are concerned that legal aid is currently being The full answer given was as follows: used to fund applications for permission for judicial review in weak cases which are unsuccessful and which Mrs Grant: At around £2 billion a year we have one have little effect other than to incur unnecessary costs of the most expensive legal aid systems of its type in the for the public. world. The consultation paper ‘Transforming Legal Aid: As part of our consultation we have published an delivering a more credible and efficient system’, contained impact assessment which is available at: a range of measures aimed at reducing the cost of and https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/ promoting public confidence in the legal aid scheme, transforming-legal-aid including a proposal that providers would only be paid for work on an application for permission to proceed As noted in the impact assessment, under our proposal with a judicial review if permission is granted by the set out in the consultation paper the provider would court. need to make an assessment of whether the application is arguable and therefore permission should be applied We are concerned that legal aid is currently being for. There may therefore be a fall in permission applications used to fund applications for permission for judicial made. This may reduce the number of cases the Legal review in weak cases which are unsuccessful and which Aid Agency (LAA) need to process and reduce the have little effect other than to incur unnecessary costs number of hours required in court for these cases with for the public. an associated saving for Her Majesty’s Courts and As part of our consultation we have published an Tribunal Service (HMCTS). We have also noted in our impact assessment which is available at: assessment that there is the potential for an increase in https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/ requests for reconsideration of the permission application transforming-legal-aid at a hearing, or onward permission appeals to the Court As noted in the impact assessment, under our proposal of Appeal where permission has been refused, which set out in the consultation paper the provider would may result in an impact on HMCTS from reconsidering need to make an assessment of whether the application the applications. is arguable and therefore permission should be applied In both circumstances however this is unquantifiable for. There may therefore be a fall in permission applications as the behavioural response of providers and clients is made. This may reduce the number of cases the Legal unknown. Aid Agency (LAA) need to process and reduce the number of hours required in court for these cases with Regarding possibility of increased applications for an associated saving for Her Majesty’s Courts and costs from public authority opponents, it is already the Tribunal Service (HMCTS). We have also noted in our case that providers should generally agree costs as part assessment that there is the potential for an increase in of a settlement or seek a costs order form the court, as requests for reconsideration of the permission application they would if acting for a privately paying client. This is at a hearing, or onward permission appeals to the Court set out in paragraph 6.58 of the 2013 Standard Civil of Appeal where permission has been refused, which Contract General Specification. may result in an impact on HMCTS from reconsidering The consultation closed on 4 June 2013 and we the applications. intend to publish a Government response shortly.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 12 September 2013

Col. No. Col. No. HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 1155 TRANSPORT—continued Palace of Westminster (Restoration) ...... 1155 East Coast Rail Services...... 1142 Recycling (Parliamentary Estate) ...... 1153 High Speed 2...... 1137 High Speed 2 (East Midlands) ...... 1144 LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 1154 Isle of Wight Ferry Services ...... 1147 Private Members’ Bills ...... 1154 London’s Transport Network...... 1141 Pre-legislative Scrutiny ...... 1157 Potholes ...... 1139 Select Committees...... 1156 Roads Spending Programme ...... 1145 Tabling of Amendments...... 1152 Topical Questions ...... 1147 TRANSPORT ...... 1137 Transport Infrastructure (North-West England) .... 1143 East Coast Main Line (Rolling Stock Procurement) ...... 1146 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Thursday 12 September 2013

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 51WS HEALTH—continued Royal Mail ...... 51WS University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay Trust...... 58WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 59WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 53WS Alcohol Licensing Consultation...... 59WS Historic Royal Palaces (Borrowing Facility)...... 53WS Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme/Sector- based Scheme...... 60WS EDUCATION...... 54WS Terrorism Prevention and Investigation ...... 61WS Education Reform (Schools) ...... 54WS UN Firearms Protocol ...... 59WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 54WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 62WS Radioactive Waste (Site Selection) ...... 54WS Omagh Bomb (Inquiry) ...... 62WS TRANSPORT ...... 63WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 55WS HS2...... 63WS EU Foreign Ministers Meeting...... 55WS TREASURY ...... 52WS HEALTH...... 57WS Banking Act 2009 Reporting...... 53WS Information Sharing (Caldicott Review) ...... 57WS City Deal...... 52WS PETITIONS

Thursday 12 September 2013

Col. No. Col. No. WALES...... 23P WALES—continued A Welsh Second Chamber ...... 23P Signage of the Welsh Senedd Building ...... 24P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 12 September 2013

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 807W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Abortion ...... 807W Supermarkets: Prices...... 855W Conditions of Employment...... 808W Trade Missions...... 856W Protection from Harassment Act 1997 ...... 808W Serious Fraud Office ...... 808W CABINET OFFICE...... 804W Charitable Donations...... 804W Communities First Fund...... 804W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 853W Conditions of Employment...... 805W Business: Billing...... 853W Prescription Drugs: Lancashire...... 805W Conditions of Employment...... 853W Private Sector: Yorkshire and the Humber...... 806W Cosmetics: Labelling ...... 854W Industry ...... 854W CHURCH COMMISSIONERS ...... 808W Offshore Industry...... 854W Conditions of Employment...... 808W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 819W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 839W Bed and Breakfast Accommodation ...... 819W British Nationals Abroad: Detainees ...... 839W Betting Shops...... 820W Democratic Republic of Congo ...... 839W Bookmakers...... 820W Dominican Republic ...... 840W Conditions of Employment...... 820W Female Genital Mutilation...... 841W Council Housing: Woking...... 821W Iran...... 841W Housing: Carbon Emissions...... 821W Jerusalem ...... 842W Local Government: ICT...... 821W Syria...... 842W

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 861W HEALTH...... 816W Accountancy...... 861W Mortuaries...... 816W Air Travel...... 861W NHS: Drugs...... 818W Broadband: Rural Areas ...... 861W NHS England ...... 816W Christmas Cards ...... 862W Cycling...... 862W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 799W Lotteries...... 862W Absenteeism...... 799W National Lottery: Ashfield...... 863W Accountancy...... 799W Pay...... 863W Asylum: Afghanistan ...... 799W Publishing ...... 864W Christmas Cards ...... 801W Standards...... 864W Harassment: Social Networking...... 801W Television...... 864W Offences against Children ...... 801W Travel ...... 865W Police: EU Nationals...... 801W Police: Pakistan...... 802W Procurement...... 802W DEFENCE...... 795W Protection from Harassment Act 1997 ...... 802W Armed Forces: Cadets...... 795W Publishing ...... 803W Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme ...... 795W Satellite Broadcasting...... 803W Armed Forces: Pay...... 795W Stalking...... 803W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 796W Television...... 804W Defence: Procurement...... 796W Prosecutions...... 796W HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION ...... 793W RAF Akrotiri...... 796W Curtis Green and Derby Gate ...... 793W Reserve Forces: Cardiff ...... 797W Hiring of House Facilities...... 793W Unmanned Aerial Vehicles...... 798W Procurement of Eggs...... 793W USA...... 798W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 814W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 798W Developing Countries: Malnutrition ...... 814W Trident ...... 798W Female Genital Mutilation...... 814W Palestinians ...... 815W South Africa ...... 815W EDUCATION...... 809W Staff ...... 815W Absenteeism...... 809W Syria...... 816W Academies...... 810W Children: Day Care ...... 810W Children: Protection...... 810W JUSTICE...... 843W Cycling...... 811W Electronic Tagging ...... 843W First Aid: Curriculum ...... 811W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 843W GCSE: English Language ...... 812W Magistrates’ Courts: Corby...... 846W Personal, Social, Health and Economic Oakwood Prison ...... 847W Education ...... 813W Prisoners: Repatriation ...... 847W Property...... 813W Prisons ...... 847W Public Expenditure...... 813W Protection from Harassment Act 1997 ...... 848W Rape: Victim Support Schemes ...... 849W Trials: Human Rights...... 849W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE...... 865W Absenteeism...... 865W PRIME MINISTER ...... 794W Buildings...... 866W Cosmetics...... 794W Conditions of Employment...... 866W Film ...... 794W Employment Agencies...... 866W Ministerial Policy Advisers...... 794W Green Deal Scheme: Ashfield...... 867W Political Office...... 794W Publications ...... 867W Press Conferences ...... 794W Satellite Broadcasting...... 867W Security...... 868W SCOTLAND...... 807W Standards...... 868W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 807W Television...... 868W Manufacturing Industries: Job Creation ...... 807W Staff ...... 807W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 849W TRANSPORT ...... 856W Animal Products: Waste Disposal...... 849W Bus Services ...... 856W Bovine Tuberculosis ...... 851W Croydon Tramlink...... 857W Food: Prices ...... 852W Cycling...... 857W Livestock: Transport ...... 853W Great Western Railway Line...... 858W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT—continued WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—continued High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 858W Television: Licensing ...... 860W Large Goods Vehicles ...... 859W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 827W Maritime Sector...... 857W Conditions of Employment...... 827W Motor Vehicles: Northern Ireland...... 859W Employment ...... 829W Railways: Franchises ...... 860W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 829W Road Funding...... 856W Housing Benefit: Greater London...... 831W Housing Benefit: Private Rented Housing...... 832W TREASURY ...... 822W Incapacity Benefit ...... 832W Business: North Yorkshire ...... 822W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 832W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 822W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Domestic Violence ...... 833W Public Expenditure...... 823W Ministers’ Private Offices ...... 833W Public Expenditure: Scotland...... 823W New Enterprise Allowance...... 834W Revenue and Customs...... 823W Occupational Pensions...... 835W Tax Avoidance ...... 826W Older Workers...... 835W Tax Evasion ...... 827W Security...... 836W Staff ...... 836W WALES...... 807W Standards...... 835W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 807W Start Up Loans Company...... 837W Trussell Trust ...... 837W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 860W Universal Credit...... 838W Castes ...... 860W Work Programme...... 839W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Thursday 12 September 2013

Col. No. JUSTICE...... 13MC Legal Aid Scheme...... 13MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 19 September 2013

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CONTENTS

Thursday 12 September 2013

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1137] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Transport Leader of the House House of Commons Commission

Business of the House [Col. 1159] Statement—(Mr Lansley)

Syria [Col. 1171] Statement—(Mr Hague)

Royal Mail [Col. 1186] Statement—(Michael Fallon)

Backbench Business Child Protection [Col. 1200] Motion—(Tim Loughton)—agreed to Employment Rights [Col. 1246] Motion—(Mr Meacher)—agreed to

Colombia [Col. 1271] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall UK Trade & Investment [Col. 347WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 51WS]

Petitions [Col. 23P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 793W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 13MC]