Tuesday Volume 699 20 July 2021 No. 37

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 20 July 2021 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2021 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 789 20 JULY 2021 790

journalists are rounded up, pro-democracy protesters House of Commons are arrested and 1 million Uyghurs are incarcerated in detention camps. In October, before he was overruled Tuesday 20 July 2021 by the Chancellor and the Prime Minister, he said that there comes a point where sport and politics cannot be The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock separated. When is that point? Dominic Raab: The hon. Lady knows that the PRAYERS participation of any national team in the Olympics is a matter for the British Olympic Association, which is [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] required, as a matter of law under the International Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Orders, Olympic Committee regulations, to take those decisions 4 June and 30 December 2020). independently. We have led the international response [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] on Xinjiang, and also on Hong Kong. Of course, as we have said, we will consider the level of Government representation at the winter Olympics in due course. Oral Answers to Questions Lisa Nandy: While the Foreign Secretary continues to duck the question, the Chinese Government have raised the stakes.Yesterday,he admitted that China was responsible FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND for the Microsoft Exchange hack, which saw businesses’ DEVELOPMENT OFFICE data stolen and hackers demanding millions of pounds in ransom. He said that the Chinese Government The Secretary of State was asked— “can expect to be held to account”. He might want to have a word with the Treasury, Hong Kong: National Security Law because just two weeks ago, at Mansion House, the Chancellor said that it was time to realise Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): What recent “the potential of a fast-growing financial services market with assessment he has made of the effect of the National total assets worth £40 trillion”. Security Law on the people of Hong Kong. [902990] While the Foreign Secretary is imposing sanctions, the The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth Chancellor is cashing cheques. How does the Foreign and Development Affairs and First Secretary of State Secretary expect to be taken seriously in Beijing if he is (Dominic Raab): The national security law in Hong not even taken seriously around his own Cabinet table? Kong is not being used for its original avowed purpose, which according to Beijing was to target Dominic Raab: I thank the hon. Lady, but she is … wrong on two counts. It was yesterday that the UK, “a tiny number of criminals who endanger national security”. along with our EU, NATO and US allies and Canada, Instead, it is being used to stifle the freedoms of the Australia and New Zealand, publicly attributed the people of Hong Kong and undermine the joint declaration. Microsoft Exchange server attacks to the Chinese; it was not then that they took place. She is also wrong in Aaron Bell: I welcome the continuing success of the her characterisation of the Mansion House speech. Of new visa relief for holders of British national overseas course, we have made it clear right across Government status; it reflects the UK’s historic and moral commitment that we will hold the Chinese Government to account to the people of Hong Kong in the face of the new on human rights, but also on cyber-attacks or other national security law, which continues to be used to nefarious activities, while also seeking a constructive crack down on freedom of expression, as we have just relationship. seen from the recent closure of Apple Daily. Will my right hon. Friend confirm what steps he is taking to Sexual Violence in Conflict: Ethiopia ensure that those Hongkongers will be welcomed to Britain and able to integrate into our local communities? Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con): What steps he has taken to deploy personnel from the Preventing Sexual Dominic Raab: I think that this is the most big-hearted Violence in Conflict initiative UK team of experts to offer that the UK has made since the Indian Ugandans Ethiopia. [902991] fled Idi Amin. My hon. Friend is right that it is not just about offering safe haven; the Ministry of Housing, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Communities and Local Government has announced a Commonwealth and Development Affairs (James Duddridge): £43 million dedicated support package to ensure that Our priority is to get access for humanitarian actors in BNOs can integrate and thrive in our country. Tigray. We have seen some improvements since the Foreign Secretary called for greater access, but it is still Mr Speaker: I call the shadow Foreign Secretary. not good enough. We have, however, deployed an expert at PSVI to Ethiopia in June for a scoping mission, Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab) [V]: We have watched as recommendations from which will outline further support the situation has deteriorated in Hong Kong and as that may be possible, including additional deployments. genocide is committed in Xinjiang. The Foreign Secretary has issued statements and introduced sanctions while Anthony Mangnall: I thank the Foreign Secretary and clinging to the absurd prospect of boarding a plane to the Minister for deploying a member of the PSVI unit Beijing next year to participate in a public relations or team—whichever we are calling it. It is particularly coup for the Chinese Government. He is asking the welcome that we are stepping forward and providing royal family and senior politicians to stand by while that assistance, but in the light of the fact that the 791 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 792

United Nations cannot consider any of the issues without money. The FCDO is uniquely placed to bring together a resolution, will the UK Government push for a resolution diplomatic clout and humanitarian expertise, to ensure of the United Nations Human Rights Council to consider the drive for more effectiveness in the response to all the ongoing human rights abuses in the Tigray region? humanitarian crisis through preparedness, and an example of that is the G7 famine compact. James Duddridge: We look at all options. Under the G7 presidency, we issued a joint statement of Foreign Patrick Grady: In that case, what is the Minister’s and Development Ministers on 2 April; there was also a message to constituents in Glasgow North who have statement on 2 May and a communiqué from leaders on donated in good faith to UK Government aid match 13 June. We will continue to work with UN colleagues programmes such as those run by Mary’s Meals or War as well. Child, who have now been told that the match funding they were expecting for every pound donated by a Mr Speaker: I call the shadow Minister. member of the public will be delayed at least until next year? That is delaying and slowing down vital life-saving Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ humanitarian work, so when are the aid match funds Co-op): I welcome the Minister’sresponse. The allegations going to be released? Hopefully it will be sooner rather of rape and sexual violence have shocked the world. I than later. [Interruption.] also welcome the recent comments by our permanent representative to the United Nations about the shocking James Cleverly: As my ministerial colleagues have attacks on humanitarian workers, including those in just said, the hon. Gentleman answers his question in recent days. Unfortunately, we have heard increasingly his question. I pay tribute to the generosity of spirit of inflammatory language from Prime Minister Abiy, and the people of the UK—all parts of the UK—who have in recent days fighting involving Tigrayan forces has contributed to humanitarian relief causes. I also pay allegedly spread to the Afar region. With famine, violence tribute, of course, to the excellent work of the FCDO and so many needs increasing, will the Minister confirm members of staff who are based in East Kilbride; they whether our total support to Ethiopia will increase or do fantastic work . be cut this year? Kerry McCarthy: May I ask the Minister specifically James Duddridge: We are committed to helping the what support is being made available to the small island community, and our support overall will of course states?Theyhaveclimatevulnerability—theyareparticularly increase, but I think the hon. Gentleman is talking not vulnerable to extreme weather events—and they have about support but about finance. Actually, what is been devastated financially by the pandemic, but the critical is our focus on resolving the conflict, because metrics that are used to calculate whether they count as only then can we get humanitarian partners in to deliver least-developed countries often do not take into account the aid. Aid convoys have come under attack and those particular vulnerabilities. What is he doing to 600 vehicles are needed each week, so without a diplomatic ensure that aid will get to them, and that debt relief is effort to quell that conflict—for the Eritreans to remove also considered? themselves from Ethiopia and to quell the types of additional conflicts that the hon. Gentleman is talking James Cleverly: The hon. Member makes an important about—any more money is not going to get through. point, and we take our responsibility to small island nations seriously. That issue does not necessarily fall Overseas Humanitarian Work within the humanitarian spend, which is designed for Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP): What recent more acute need, but we will of course, through things assessment he has made of the potential effect of reductions like COP26, take into consideration the factors that are in the UK aid budget on the UK’s humanitarian work difficult for small nations to deal with, whether they be overseas. [902992] island nations or otherwise, and that will always remain a serious piece of work in the FCDO. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): What recent assessment he has made of the potential effect of reductions Owen Thompson: The official development assistance in the UK aid budget on the UK’s humanitarian work budget, before it was cut, would have amounted to overseas. [903007] 1% of covid borrowing. We all know that the motion that was passed last week essentially spells the end of Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): What recent the 0.7% commitment. In the absence of the development assessment he has made of the potential effect of reductions strategy from the Department, which continues to be in the UK aid budget on the UK’s humanitarian work delayed, is it now the case for the Government that overseas. [903013] those who need help the most are relegated to the bottom of the pile to wait for everything else to be done, The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa rather than being put front and centre of foreign policy? (James Cleverly): Humanitarian preparedness and response is one of the Foreign Office’s seven priorities under the James Cleverly: The hon. Gentleman seems to disregard leadership of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, the fact that the UK will remain one of the most and is a priority for the UK’s aid budget spend this year. generous aid donors in the world, spending £10 billion The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to help some of the poorest people in the world. We are will spend £906 million to maintain the UK’s role as a experiencing the worst economic contraction in three force for good at the time of crisis. We have consistently centuries, driven by a global pandemic beyond any of been one of the largest bilateral humanitarian donors our control, but our commitment to get back to 0.7% has globally: since 2015, the UK has provided over £11.1 billion now been set out and the conditions for doing so are in humanitarian funding. However, it is not all about now public. We are proud of the work that we do 793 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 794 supporting the poorest people around the world, and what will the Government do to stop families dying of we will continue to be one of the most generous aid starvation and disease? As penholder for Yemen at the donors in the world. UN, we clearly have a special responsibility.What further Air Pollution pressure are the Government putting on all the parties for meaningful and inclusive peace talks involving all Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): What key stakeholders—not simply the Houthis, who are steps the Government are taking to work with partners clearly blocking the discussions, but the Hadi Government in the global south to reduce deaths from air pollution and the Southern Transitional Council? ahead of the COP26 summit. [902993] James Cleverly: The hon. Gentleman is right that we The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, are concerned about the humanitarian situation in Yemen. Commonwealth and Development Affairs (James Duddridge): We have given over £1 billion-worth of aid to Yemen I thank the hon. Gentleman for the work he does as the since the conflict began. I recently spoke about the food chair of the all-party parliamentary group on air pollution. security issue with David Beasley of the World Food Air pollution is the largest environmental risk to human Programme in the margins of the G7 in Italy. health and it results in 7 million premature deaths The best thing we can do for the people of Yemen is globally. The UK is showing global leadership in this to bring this conflict to a conclusion. We engage area, and since 2011 UK international climate finance constructively with the Saudis and the Government of has provided 33 million people with improved access to Yemen but, unfortunately, the people we have the most clean energy and reduced or avoided 31 million tonnes difficulty engaging with meaningfully are the Houthis, of greenhouse gas emissions. and I publicly call upon them to engage with us, to Geraint Davies [V]: University College London found engage with the UN, to engage with this process and to in its February report that 8.7 million people die each bring peace to these people who so desperately need it. year due to air pollution from fossil fuels. That is one in five deaths globally, and one in three in eastern Asia, Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Where is the morality including China, which now produces more emissions and sense in the Government trumpeting at the G7 the than the EU and the US combined. Will the Minister importance of fighting famine while, at the same time, press the Government to show leadership at COP26 by withdrawing food aid from nearly a quarter of a million enshrining World Health Organisation air quality limits people in Yemen? As my hon. Friend the Member for in the Environment Bill to help prevent tens of thousands Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) said, Yemen is facing of avoidable deaths in Britain, and millions abroad? what the UN is calling the worst famine in decades. I am told by the aid agencies that the Government have James Duddridge: The hon. Gentleman is right to said they hope to restart the life-saving programmes at raise east Asia, but there is also south Asia and the some point next year, which is a year too late for those Pacific. We are working closely with the COP26 energy in need now. It is also totally impractical and wasteful transformation, transition and zero-emission vehicles to shut down the delivery infrastructure, which takes campaigns to make sure there is closer integration with years to build, only to restart it from scratch a year later. public health objectives. This will facilitate a global, Would it not be better to maintain the current programmes, green, healthy and sustainable recovery from the pandemic. which are so badly needed and which enhance the UK’s I am happy to work with the all-party group in this global reputation, rather than making the poorest pay regard. for the global pandemic? Yemen James Cleverly: Despite the worst economic contraction Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): What recent in 300 years, the UK remains one of the largest bilateral assessment he has made of the prospects for a negotiated donors in supporting the humanitarian efforts in Yemen, peace settlement in Yemen. [902994] but it is not just about money, important though that it is; it is also about bringing the diplomatic power of the The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to (James Cleverly): We continue to fully support the UN bear. I spoke with the Government of Yemen about efforts to end the conflict in Yemen, alongside the US, making sure fuel ships outside the port of Hodeidah are the Saudis and other international partners. The United able to land, so that fuel can be used to mill grain and Nations has put a fair deal on the table, consisting of a transport food. That work, alongside our work with the ceasefire and a measure to ease restrictions in Hodeidah United Nations, the Saudis and the Government of port and Sanaa airport. However, the Houthis are not Yemen to bring about peace, is the best thing we can do engaging constructively with the proposals to alleviate to help the medium and long-term situation for the the suffering of the Yemeni people. Rather than coming people of Yemen. to the table, the Houthis continue their offensive in Marib.Weare committed to reaching a peaceful settlement Climate Change to the conflict. We await the appointment of a new special envoy, and we look forward to working with them when they are in place. Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con): What diplomatic steps his Department is taking to promote international Paul Blomfield [V]: After seven years of violence, co-operation on tackling climate change. [902995] suffering and hardship, there is still no end in sight, as the Minister acknowledges. The UN has warned that Suzanne Webb (Stourbridge) (Con): What diplomatic Yemen faces the worst famine the world has seen for steps his Department is taking to promote international decades. After more than halving their aid to the country, co-operation on tackling climate change. [903000] 795 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 796

Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): What Steve Double: The UK should feel rightly proud of diplomatic steps his Department is taking with its the progress we are making to cut our carbon footprint counterparts in G7 countries to tackle global climate and our commitment to net zero, but with less than 1% change challenges. [903003] of global emissions it is clear that the UK cannot fight climate change on its own. So will the Minister assure Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): What diplomatic steps me that we will use both our diplomatic and commercial his Department is taking to promote international influence to put pressure on not only the G7, but other co-operation on tackling climate change. [903011] nations that are the most polluting to take urgent action to address this matter and reduce their emissions? Ian Levy (Blyth Valley) (Con): What diplomatic steps James Duddridge: My hon. Friend is absolutely right: his Department is taking to promote international tackling climate change and biodiversity loss will require co-operation on tackling climate change. [903018] a global effort. We are asking all countries to agree ambitious nationally determined contributions that align Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP): with net zero and to invest in policies that will phase out What progress the Government have made through coal, which will turn these targets into a reality. We have international co-operation on tackling climate change. already made great progress, as has been seen by last [903023] month’s first ever net zero G7, which I believe he part-hosted. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Mark Pawsey: We have already heard this morning Commonwealth and Development Affairs (James Duddridge): about emissions from China. Following up on the point As set out in the integrated review, tackling climate from my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and change and biodiversity loss is this Government’s top Newquay (Steve Double), I should say that China generates international priority.As Minister for Africa, it is integral to 60% of its electricity from coal, which compares with a my work, and so far this year the Foreign Secretary has figure of just 2% in the UK. As well as being a major raised the issue of climate in more than 100 engagements. contributor to global climate change, that gives Chinese We are making progress, as can be seen by last month’s manufacturers a competitive advantage, because it makes first ever net zero G7, where all countries committed to their energy costs lower. What discussions have been reaching net zero by 2050. held with the Chinese authorities to encourage them to speed up their transition to carbon free sources of Selaine Saxby: I warmly welcome the commitment energy? by G7 countries to the Build Back Better World initiative, which will be vital in supporting developing countries James Duddridge: The Foreign Secretary raised this with clean infrastructure and could unlock greater progress issue with Wang Yi, and at the US climate leaders’ on climate finance at COP26. While congratulating the summit President Xi made the commitment that China UK Government on their leadership, may I ask my hon. would reduce its coal use. That is a positive sign, but Friend how he plans to take this forward and secure more information is needed, so we look forward to firm commitments from our allies? hearing more about how China will strictly control and then reduce coal consumption, to make sure that its commitments are Paris-compatible. James Duddridge: At the end of March, the COP President-designate and the Foreign Secretary hosted Ian Levy [V]: I recently had the pleasure of visiting the climate and development ministerial. Ministers from Bede Academy in Blyth where concerned students 35 climate-vulnerable and donor countries attended, questioned me on the steps that we are collectively plus representatives from institutions and civil society. taking to tackle climate change. Will my hon. Friend At that, we saw consensus about the importance of assure me that the Government are doing all they can to practical action, and we will continue to build on this pursue international co-operation on climate change, so success. that we can best tackle the serious environmental issues and protect our planet for future generations? Suzanne Webb: Climate change remains a hot topic across my constituency, and I intend to engage with my James Duddridge: My hon. Friend can return to Bede local schools in COP26-style roundtables. Does my Academy and reassure students that he has raised this hon. Friend agree that working with young people matter in the House and that we will tackle climate across the world will help promote international change and biodiversity. He can also reassure them that co-operation on climate change? Should he need a that is the Government’s top international priority. We doughty champion to do that around the world, I have look forward to delivering a successful COP26 this my passport at the ready. November. That will be a key focus for Ministers and our diplomatic network over the coming months and, indeed, years. James Duddridge: A stonkingly excellent idea! I am glad my hon. Friend has her passport at the ready—I Deidre Brock: It is vital that climate action does not am sure the Whips will have heard that. Young people come at the cost of further crushing debt for developing are an important voice, and the UK is committed to world countries. Debt cancellation would be one fast involving young people in the planning and hosting of way for those countries to free up resources, achieve the COP26. COP26 will engage civil society and the youth sustainable development goals, and tackle the climate advisory council, which is co-chaired by the Kenyan crisis. Will the COP26 President and UK Government 25-year-old climate change activist and Bella Lack, an be pushing for international agreement on this as the 18-year-old climate activist from the UK. SNP has long called for? 797 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 798

James Duddridge: That is something that we have state actors. I spoke with the then Colombian acting worked and delivered on both in Sudan and Somalia Foreign Minister Adriana Mejía on 14 May to express recently. We also had a focus on suspending debt initially my concerns and to welcome Colombia’s commitment during this crisis. However, we need to look at all to transparent investigations into allegations of excessive options going forward as we build back better, sorting use of force by the police. I also spoke with the Colombian the debt issue, but doing so in a climate-sensitive way. ambassador to the UK on 12 July to ask for an update on investigations. I was pleased to learn that more than Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab) [V]: It is clear 200 investigations into alleged misconduct by the police thatlowandmiddle-incomecountriesaredisproportionately are now open. affected by the impacts of climate change. Wealthier countries, including the UK, have so far failed to commit Clive Efford: I am grateful for that answer, but the to the agreed £100 billion climate finance promise made truth is that the UK Government are providing extensive in Paris to address this. Evidence submitted to my training and support to Colombian police, despite evidence International Development Committee inquiry suggests of extensive police brutality, with up to 43 people that only 10% to 15% of the current climate finance allegedly murdered, a catalogue of sexual assaults and available actually reaches the local communities that people being blinded by having tear gas canisters fired bear the brunt of this emergency. What steps are the in their face. Will the Minister commit to publishing full Government taking to secure the £100 billion before overseas security and justice assessments for activities COP26 and what is the Minister doing to ensure that under this programme, so that the House can satisfy local communities in the areas worst affected by climate itself that the Government are not contributing to change are consulted, including in designing programmes, further abuses of human rights in Colombia? and can actually access the climate financing themselves? Wendy Morton: On police training, our conflict, stability James Duddridge: On the numbers, the hon. Lady is and security fund’s Colombia peace and stabilisation wrong. Wehave doubled our commitment to international programme launched the £2.1 million police innovations climate finance to take it up to £11.6 billion. That is a for stabilisation in Colombia project in 2021. The project big commitment to the global number, but we are is supporting the transformation of the Colombian asking other partners to step up, and we will use events national police, but we are not aware of any police units such as COP26 in Glasgow and the G7 to encourage in Colombia that have received UK training support others to step up as we have done. being involved in human rights violations. Colombia is a Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office Mr Speaker: Let us go to the SNP spokesperson, human rights priority country. We take the growing Chris Law. levels of violence against social leaders and human Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP) [V]: The newly rights defenders extremely seriously, and we consistently unelected Baroness Davidson of Lundin Links described raise our concerns with the Colombian Government her Tory colleagues as “a bloody disgrace”for condemning and in multilateral forums. millions of the world’spoorest people to this Government’s Human Rights: Trade Deals death sentence cuts last week. If those cuts were not stupid enough, vital projects combating climate change Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab): What across the world are now being immediately cancelled recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues as a result. Does the Minister agree with the director of on inserting clauses on human rights in future trade the International Centre for Climate Change and deals. [902997] Development in Bangladesh that the Chancellor has cut the COP26 President Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): “off at the legs. He will not have any credibility… asking other What recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues countries” on inserting clauses on human rights in future trade to be more ambitious on climate change. deals. [903004] James Duddridge: The COP26 President-Designate Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): What recent has done a very good job in engaging international discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on partners and we are already making traction. I am not inserting clauses on human rights in future trade deals. predicting that the hon. Gentleman is wrong; I am [903008] saying that the facts already demonstrate that he is wrong. The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa Is it not good that we have a thriving democracy and a (James Cleverly): FCDO Ministers are in regular contact variety of views in this House and in the other place? with Cabinet colleagues on a range of trade-related Colombia: Protests issues and we are clear that more trade does not have to come at the expense of our commitment to human Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): What recent discussions rights. The UK will continue to show global leadership he has had with the Colombian Government on the in encouraging all states to uphold international human policing of protests and incidents of violence against rights obligations and will hold to account those who protesters in that country. [902996] violate human rights. Since the inception of the Global Human Rights Sanctions Regulations 2020, we have The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, used those powers to impose sanctions on 78 persons Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Wendy Morton): involved in human rights violations. The UK has a We remain concerned about reports of human rights strong history of protecting human rights and promoting violations in relation to recent protests in Colombia, global values. By having a strong economic relationship and we regularly raise our concerns with the relevant with partners, we can have more open discussions on a 799 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 800 range of issues, including human rights. We continue to expense of our commitment to human rights. We want take a balanced and proportionate approach with partners to have trade relationships with countries around the to deliver the best outcome for the UK and to maximise world, but ultimately the foundation stone on which all the benefits of trade, while ensuring that we promote Government activity is built is our commitment to our core values. human rights.

Ellie Reeves [V]: The UK has a free trade agreement Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP): I spent 16 years in the with Colombia that contains a human rights clause, but European Parliament scrutinising and voting on trade we have just heard that in recent months protesters in policy. Trade policy is not just about trade; it is an Colombia have faced brutal violence at the hands of opportunity to raise standards on the environment, Colombian police, with human rights organisations human rights and elsewhere.It is therefore really concerning documenting 43 protesters potentially killed by the that, in 179 pages, the Department for International police. Given those abuses, and the Colombian Trade’s 2021-22 statement makes no mention of human Government’s repeated attempts to deny and minimise rights, slave labour or workers’ rights at all. This is a the crisis,will the UK Government signal their commitment missed opportunity. SNP support for future trade deals to human rights and, rather than turn a blind eye, cannot be taken for granted—it was not in the European ensure that this human rights clause is actually upheld? Parliament, as often we did not find them ambitious enough. In a constructive spirit, I urge that we have an James Cleverly: Colombia is an FCDO human rights FCDO statement to ensure co-operation between the priority country, and we take the growing reports of two policy areas so that future trade deals can raise violence against social leaders and human rights defenders standards in these vital areas. extremely seriously. We consistently raise our concerns with the Colombian Government and in multilateral James Cleverly: I thank the hon. Gentleman for forums. The point that the Under-Secretary of State for giving us due notice that the support of the SNP for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, my future trade arrangements cannot be guaranteed. I had hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy kind of worked that out by myself, because over the Morton), has just made is still very much the case. past 15 years the SNP has never backed a trade agreement When we export our products and services, we also anywhere. There is, no doubt, always a reason for SNP export our values and buy the right to have serious Members to say no to trade agreements. To return to conversations with partners around the world. the broader point, our commitment to human rights is a foundation stone of our foreign policy and our “force Chi Onwurah [V]: Will the Minister confirm here and for good” agenda in the world. We will ensure that we now that it is our foreign policy to defend human rights use our trade relationships not just to export products and the rule of law across the world? Does he agree and services but to export our principles and values. He that, as well as putting UK businesses with high human is right that that should be an inherent part of all trade rights and labour rights at a disadvantage, signing trade agreements, and indeed it is, but ultimately, given that agreements with some of the world’s worst human the SNP will be looking for an excuse to say no to a rights abusers without anyhuman rights clauses undermines deal, he, I am sure, will always find one. that policy and our global reputation? Covid-19 Vaccines: Global Distribution James Cleverly: The UK is proud to be incredibly vocal on the international stage about our commitment Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): What diplomatic steps to human rights. As I have said, having an open and the Government are taking to support the distribution expansive trade policy is not any kind of contradiction of covid-19 vaccines throughout the world. [902998] to our passion for promoting human rights. If the hon. Member has particular concerns about forthcoming John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) trade agreements and the human rights elements thereof, (Con): What diplomatic steps the Government are taking please feel free to write to the Department. to support the distribution of covid-19 vaccines throughout the world. [903012] Alex Cunningham [V]: During an Adjournment debate earlier this year, the Minister for Trade Policy justified Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con): What diplomatic the deal with Cameroon on the basis that there had steps the Government are taking to support the distribution been a reduction in human rights abuses against its own of covid-19 vaccines throughout the world. [903019] people. Next day in the House, the Under-Secretary of State for International Trade, the hon. Member for The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth North East Hampshire (Mr Jayawardena), refused to and Development Affairs and First Secretary of State confirm whether he was right or wrong. So can this (DominicRaab):Throughourinvestmentinthedevelopment Minister tell the House what level of abuse the Government of the AstraZeneca vaccine, our finance for COVAX are prepared to accept with similar oppressive regimes and our commitment of 100 million vaccine doses from to grant them a trade deal with the UK? surplus domestic supply, the UK is a global leader in our support for vaccinating the poorest around the world. James Cleverly: We continue to monitor the situation in Cameroon closely. We raise our concerns directly Jacob Young: Lebanon has been hit by a succession with the Cameroonian Government and within multilateral of crises in recent months, not least the massive explosion forums calling for an inclusive dialogue and the end to in the port of Beirut last year, a deepening economic violence. As I say, the Government have always been crisis, and rising political instability. Can the Foreign clear that increased trade will not come at the expense Secretary assure me that his Department is doing everything of our values and, specifically, will not come at the it can to support the people of Lebanon with their 801 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 802 vaccine deployment so that Lebanese people do not If this Government have a conscience, they will want to have to endure shortages of covid-19 vaccines on top of know how many lives have and will be lost as a result of the hardship that they are already enduring? these cuts. I urge him to publish the impact assessments immediately so that more lives can be saved, but will he Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. do it? He will recall that, last year, as that terrible disaster took place, we committed $2 million in extra support Dominic Raab: What I would say to the hon. Lady is for medical equipment. In relation to vaccines, in March, that Labour promised it would hit 0.7% in 1974. That Lebanon received its first doses from COVAX: 33,600 AZ was the year in which I was born. Labour has never vaccines. The UK, through our £90 million commitment, once hit 0.7%. It only twice hit 0.5%, so we will take no got the AstraZeneca vaccine at cost price to the world, lectures from the Labour party when we are the third and the vast majority of COVAX doses—some 98%—that biggest G7 donor when it comes to aid. will have reached Lebanon have been the AZ vaccine. That demonstrates the value that the UK is providing Israel and Palestine not just with the domestic roll-out but abroad as well. Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op): John Lamont: The UK has amassed one of the largest [902999] When he plans to make a decision on whether vaccine portfolios in the world. This has been hugely the UK will support the International Fund for Israeli- successful and has allowed all of us to get a jab. In Palestinian Peace. which parts of the world does the Foreign Secretary Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): [903010] Whether envisage using our surplus to best effect? his Department’s guidance advising against trade with Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. At illegal settlements in the West Bank extends to public bodies. the G7, by making it clear that we would donate 100 million The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa doses from surplus domestic supply by the end of June (James Cleverly): The UK Government share the objectives 2022, we also leveraged 1 billion doses from other of increasing understanding and dialogue between Israelis countries. We are committing 80% to COVAX, which and Palestinians. UK officials remain in close contact will be distributed according to its criteria, and a further with the US Government regarding the international 20% on a strategic basis. Allocations will be announced fund. The US is at the early stages in its planning and, in due course. once more information is available, we will consider options for collaboration. Simon Baynes: Will my right hon. Friend join me in praising the employees of Wockhardt in my constituency The UK’s overseas business risk guidance is intended of Clwyd South for the indispensable role they have to provide guidance for UK businesses to identify and played in our vaccine manufacturing process? It has mitigate security and political risks when trading overseas. allowed us not only to roll out doses swiftly and effectively The guidance is not aimed at public bodies or Her in the UK, but to support countries across the rest of Majesty’s Government. The UK’s position on settlements the world that have been badly hit by the covid pandemic. is clear, and we have articulated it regularly. We regard them as illegal under international law, and they are Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend can be rightly very therefore a risk to the economic and financial activities proud of the role his constituents have played. It is not in settlements. We do not encourage or offer support for only Wockhardt employees, but the wider AstraZeneca such activity. collaboration with Government and the £90 million of support that the Government put in for research and Alex Sobel: The UK consulate in Jerusalem has given development and for getting capacity up that have vocal support to oppose the illegal evictions in Silwan meant that we not only have this world-beating domestic and Sheikh Jarrah. What practical action can the UK vaccine roll-out, but have supplied 98% of the vaccine Government take to ensure that those evictions end? to the poorest and most vulnerable countries around They run contrary to the intentions of the international the world delivered by COVAX. fund for peace and, as the Minister has just stated, we are opposed to illegal occupations. Preet Kaur Gill (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab/Co-op): James Cleverly: The UK enjoys a close and important Less than 1% of sub-Saharan Africa has been fully relationship with Israel, and because we have that close vaccinated, leaving the Prime Minister’s claim that he relationship, we are able directly to bring up sensitive would vaccinate the entire world hanging by a thread issues. I and my ministerial colleagues have brought up and his credibility in tatters. Having sneaked out cuts to with the Israeli Government our opposition to those the aid budget, which his Government have now made demolitions. permanent, he has made the UK the third lowest donor in the G7, and in the middle of a pandemic, this Foreign Andy Slaughter [V]: Given that the Minister has just Secretary has presided over the largest drop in humanitarian said that his Department’s policy is not to encourage or aid of any major donor country, apart from Saudi support economic and financial activity in settlements, Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. It is clear that will he at least say that, where public bodies decide that the Foreign Secretary’s claim that the UK’s reputation they do not wish to invest in settlements, following his has not been diminished under his watch is unfounded Government’s advice, he will not stand in their way in in reality. What does he say in response to the damning doing so? comments last week of the former President of Liberia, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf? He said that this Government’s James Cleverly: Procurement by public bodies is governed cuts will have by various public procurement regulations. The Public “a negative impact on millions of people in less wealthy nations”. Contracts Regulations 2015 require contracting authorities 803 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 804 to treat all economic operators equally and without Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con) [V]: discrimination. In addition, the Local Government Act 1988 Mr Speaker, thank you very much for calling me. The requires local authorities to exercise their functions in line from Kent is pretty terrible, I am afraid, but that is relation to public supply or works contracts without a complaint for the Department for Digital, Culture, regard to non-commercial matters, which includes the Media and Sport. location in any country or territory. Today, on Eid al-Adha, will the Foreign Secretary Human Rights Abuses join me in welcoming the number of Muslim communities in the UK who have come from abroad to make their Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con): What steps his lives here, but will he also reach out to Muslim communities Department is taking with its counterparts in G7 countries around the world and ask them to stand with the people to tackle human rights abuses throughout the world. of Xinjiang, who this year will not be celebrating—as, indeed, they have not been celebrating for many years— [903002] under the rule of the Chinese Communist party and the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, authoritarian dictatorship that it has caused? Commonwealth and Development Affairs (James Duddridge): Under UK leadership, the G7 has committed to work Dominic Raab: I thank my hon. Friend, and he is collectively to strengthen the foundations of open societies absolutely right. We celebrate the role of all communities and to promote human rights, including agreeing new and all religions in this country: they make Britain what measures to support media freedoms, tackle disinformation it is. He is absolutely right to say—I regularly raise it and enhance co-ordination of freedom of religion, sanctions with my colleagues and opposite numbers overseas—that and, indeed, arbitrary detention. particularly in Muslim-majority countries it seems there is not quite as much concern as in the UK and other Robbie Moore [V]: [Inaudible]—facing harassment western, non-Muslim-majority countries about human and imprisonment without due cause since the special rights abuses. This is an actor-agnostic issue; it is merely status of Jammu and Kashmir was revoked by India. about treatment—persecution—based on religion, creed The United Kingdom proudly stands for freedom and or ethnicity. We call on all countries to uphold those democracy, so can my hon. Friend ensure that he will basic values, but particularly those most directly affected use the full weight of his Department, via discussions with the victims in Xinjiang. with the G7 and others, to ensure that these terrible abuses of human rights in Kashmir are put to an end? Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab) [V]: Last week, the Government finally gave the EU James Duddridge: I think I got the drift of the question, ambassador the legal recognition they so arrogantly although I missed the beginning. We recognise that denied him earlier this year, and last month we saw the there are human rights concerns both in India-administered Government’s needlessly antagonistic approach towards Kashmir and Pakistan-administered Kashmir. We our European partners overshadow the G7 summit and encourage all states to ensure that domestic laws are in consequently hamper international efforts to tackle pressing line with international standards, and any allegation—any global challenges. Does the Foreign Secretary now accept allegation—of human rights violations or abuse is deeply that this was a mistake that has undermined our relationship concerning and must be investigated thoroughly,promptly with Europe, and will he commit to treating our European and transparently. partners as equals to ensure that we can work together on common concerns such as security, freedom of speech, Topical Questions covid and climate change?

[903050] Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab): If he Dominic Raab: Particularly after the Harry Dunn will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. case, and what we learned about the risk of finding gaps The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth in immunity—including long-standing gaps that date and Development Affairs and First Secretary of State back to the last Labour Government—I will make no (Dominic Raab): The UK has led international efforts apologies for being very careful with EU representation, to press China to grant urgent and unfettered access to which falls somewhere between a normal international the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. organisation and a sovereign Government’s mission. We must ensure that privileges and immunities are Sarah Jones: Is the Foreign Secretary concerned about tailored to their functional need, and that we do not the deliberate erosion of trust in America’s electoral find ourselves with a gap. That means that we can hold system—in particular,what is playing out in Arizona—and people to account for ordinary crimes, as the public what lessons should be learned here, where, as in America, would expect. Frankly, given the various voices from there is no evidence of electoral fraud on anything the Labour Front Bench who have raised the case of other than a minuscule scale? Does he really think the Harry Dunn, I am utterly surprised that the hon. Lady Elections Bill is going to help or hinder our democracy? would not expect us to take such a rigorous approach.

Dominic Raab: We obviously follow attacks on any [903053] Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con): I have been democracy—particularly,as we have talked about, through in correspondence with the Minister for European misinformation or cyber-crime—very carefully.Ultimately, Neighbourhood and the Americas with respect to a we work in collaboration with partners such as the US complex constituency case. What help can FCDO and we will take our lead from them. officials give to constituents who have favourable court orders in both this country and another jurisdiction to Mr Speaker: Let us go to the Chair of the Select repatriate a child to the UK, but who face constant Committee, Tom Tugendhat. battles and hurdles to do so? 805 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 806

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, details on that fund. Once they are in a position to Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Wendy Morton): engage with us in more detail, we will consider that in My hon. Friend raises an important point on a very due course. sensitive issue. International child parental abduction is a hugely distressing matter for the parents and families [903055] Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con): I have affected, and they have my deepest sympathy. Consular received more than 2,000 emails from constituents raising officials can provide support to British people affected their concerns about violence towards worshippers at by such issues both overseas and here in the UK. al-Aqsa mosque,and the threatened evictions of Palestinian Officials can advise left-behind parents about the most families in Sheikh Jarrah. In response to those concerns, effective way to make local authorities aware of the will my right hon. Friend outline what steps he has court orders they hold. Where appropriate, the FCDO taken to raise those issues directly with the Israeli can express an interest in the case with the relevant Government? court and other local authorities. We can also put James Cleverly: My right hon. Friend the Foreign families in touch with partner organisations, such as Secretary raised this very issue with his Israeli counterpart, Reunite International, which offers specialised support I have raised it with the Israeli ambassador, and we have and mediation services. Wecan liaise with local authorities consistentlycalledforsensitivityinthesecurityarrangements and, with the permission of UK courts, present with around the most holy sites in Jerusalem. We continue to court orders served in the UK, but it is important to call for a permanent ceasefire, and we will continue to note that the FCDO is not a law enforcement body and work with all parties, both in the west bank and in is unable to enforce court orders in the UK overseas. We Israel, to pursue that aim. are unable to compel foreign jurisdictions to enforce UK— [903059] Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]: The Foreign Office is funding projects exploring why Mr Speaker: Order. There must be shorter answers, modern slavery is taking place in Malaysian factories. as these are topical questions. The Foreign Secretary need not look far; he can just ask the Health Secretary, because the Department of [903051] Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) [V]: Earlier Health and Social Care has purchased more than this month the FCDO published its human rights and 760 million rubber gloves for the NHS from Malaysian democracy report, which lists in total 31 human rights factories accused of using slave labour during the priority countries. The UK Government currently grant pandemic. Can the Foreign Secretary tell me—perhaps licences to sell arms to 23 out of those 31 countries. this time I will get an answer, unlike when I have asked How can the granting of those licences be reconciled a number of his colleagues this question—why, if the with any meaningful commitment on the part of the Foreign Office views this as a serious problem, his UK Government to improve the human rights of those colleagues in the Department of Huealth and Social who live in those countries? Care do not?

Dominic Raab: We take our responsibilities on those Dominic Raab: We scrutinise very carefully any issues very seriously. We have one of the most stringent allegations—the hon. Gentleman has called them export control regimes in the world, and we regularly allegations—of human rights abuses. I can tell him review it. At the same time, with our introduction for about the supply of rubber gloves from Malaysia. At the first time ever in this country of an autonomous the peak of the pandemic, when we were seeking personal human rights sanction regime, the so-called Sergei protective equipment for our NHS staff on the frontline, Magnitsky sanctions regime, we have shown that from in care homes, we of course looked at all possible Xinjiang to the murder of Khashoggi and the persecution suppliers, including Malaysia, which is one of the biggest of the Rohingya in Myanmar, we will not hesitate to global suppliers of rubber gloves. hold those who violate serious fundamental rights to account. [903056] Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con): Following the G7 summit, with its focus on vaccinations and their global roll-out, does my hon. Friend agree that the [903052] Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne challenges of antimicrobial resistance are at least as North) (Lab) [V]: The Minister for Middle East and great and therefore need a similar focus in terms of North Africa indicated earlier that the Government research, manufacturing and distribution? have yet to consider joining the International Fund for Israeli-Palestinian Peace, because they are awaiting further Wendy Morton: AMR is one of the most pressing information. Why are the Government not showing global challenges we face this century, and the UK is a more initiative in working with the US to drive that? global leader in taking action on AMR. We champion it Our chief negotiator in Northern Ireland held a similar as a priority on the international stage, including through initiative, the International Fund for Ireland, to be the our G7 presidency and the work of Professor Dame great unsung hero of the peace process. Does the Minister Sally Davies, the UK’s special envoy on AMR. Since agree that the middle east need be no different? 2014, we have invested more than £360 million in research and development on AMR. The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa (James Cleverly): As I said earlier, the UK values and [903061] Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD) welcomes means for Israelis and Palestinians to work [V]: I and many of my constituents are horrified by the more closely together, and we call on the leadership of increasing hostility and outright homophobia and both to do so at Government and Palestinian Authority transphobia shown by the Hungarian Government level. We work closely with our US counterparts, and towards their LGBT+ citizens. It is shameful that the we will continue working with them as they put more UK Government are treating Viktor Orbán like a close 807 Oral Answers 20 JULY 2021 Oral Answers 808 friend when we should be making clear that such budget is in the education of girls globally? Will he discrimination is anathema to British values. Does the outline the steps he is taking to further that aim at the Secretary of State regret the decision to roll out the red GlobalPartnershipforEducationnextweek?[Interruption.] carpet to Viktor Orbán and welcome him into No. 10 just a few weeks ago? Dominic Raab: Labour Members are talking about cuts. We have just made the biggest ever donation to the Wendy Morton: The Prime Minister did indeed meet Global Partnership for Education, a 15% increase on Hungarian Prime Minister Orbán on 28 May.Co-operation last time. As a result, at the G7 we corralled one of the with Hungary, as the incoming president of the Visegrad biggest G7 sets of donations—close to $3 billion. We Group from 1 July, is important for the UK’s prosperity are hosting, with our Kenyan friends, the Global Education and security. As hon. Members would expect, the Prime summit in the next few days. The point is that, through Minister raised various values in his meeting, such as the leadership of our official development assistance media freedom and issues of discrimination. I can contribution and our diplomatic leadership, we are assure you, Mr Speaker, that where we have issues of bringing the world together in pursuit of two targets: concern, we do not shy away from raising them. 40 million more girls receiving 12 years quality education, and 20 million more girls literate by the age of 10.

[903057] Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con): This month [903066] Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab) marks six years since the joint comprehensive plan of [V]: It is cheering to see the new US Administration action nuclear deal was signed, yet Iran has faced no repairing relations that the previous President damaged. consequences for its flagrant violations of the deal. Will we take a leaf out of our closest ally’s book and Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that Iran recognise the 2 million dead under the Ottoman empire has failed to live up to its nuclear commitments, and from 1915 to 1923 as Armenian genocide, as Biden and will he confirm that nothing is off the table, including dozens of other states worldwide have done? Can we the reimposition of sanctions? also commit to playing our part to resolve current disputes with Azerbaijan? Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point to the continued systemic non-compliance by Dominic Raab: Our position on the Armenian genocide Iran with its JCPOA commitments. Of course, Iran is is unchanged, but certainly in relation to the other still subject to wide-ranging sanctions. We strongly urge disputes the hon. Lady mentioned, we of course work Iran to halt all its activities in violation of the JCPOA with the international community to try to alleviate the and, in line with the new US position, come back to the plight of those on all sides who are suffering. table and make sure that we can conclude a return to the JCPOA. I would just say that we do not believe that [903062] Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con) [V]: those negotiations can remain open-ended forever. The situation in Tigray is truly horrifying, and the Prime Minister of Ethiopia sparked fears of further [903065] Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab) [V]: Eid mass atrocities by saying that the “weeds” of Tigray will Mubarak to Muslims celebrating both in Luton South be crushed. What steps is the UK taking to urgently and around the world, but for those living in Palestine, de-escalate the conflict, and map out Ethiopian and their Eid al-Adha celebrations will not be peaceful or Eritrean forces perpetrating atrocities so that they can safe. Does the Secretary of State agree that attempts to be held accountable? Will the new conflict centre look get a meaningful peace process back up and running at what further steps, such as Magnitsky sanctions, can are made harder by the building of settlements and the be taken to alleviate the crisis? eviction of Palestinians, which entrench division and are illegal under international law? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (James Duddridge): The UK is supporting the joint investigation into abuses Dominic Raab: I totally agree with the hon. Lady. I and violations in Tigray, which will inform actions have been out to both Israel and the west bank twice. against those identified as having committed abuses or We are a stalwart supporter of Israel, but we also, not violations. I want to be very clear: we will consider least because of our principled approach to international all—all—policy options in response.Wewill also co-sponsor law,make it clear,whether on the evictions, the demolitions a resolution at the July Human Rights Council, and in Jerusalem or the broader question of settlement conflict experts are providing technical advice to guide building, that they are not just contrary to international our response during this crisis. law but entirely counterproductive to the peace set-up we need to see for a durable two-state solution for both Mr Speaker: I am now suspending the House for Israelis and Palestinians. three minutes to enable the necessary arrangements to be made for the next business. [903060] Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the best 12.32 pm possible investments the UK can make with its aid Sitting suspended. 809 20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 810

Cyber-attack: Microsoft an aggressive attack, why are the Government allowing the UK’s largest silicon chip manufacturer, Newport 12.35 pm Wafer Fab, to be bought by a Chinese firm when they know very well what they are up to? Why is it that the Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford US Justice Department, also with this, brought federal Green) (Con) (Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary criminal charges against four named MSS officers over of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development their role in the hacking of the American targets, yet no Affairs if he will make a statement on the reported such charges have been brought against operatives here? Chinese state-sponsored cyber-attack on Microsoft The integrated review said clearly that Russia was a exchange servers. threat to the UK, but China was merely a competitor. I The Minister for the Middle East and North Africa wonder why, if China goes on attacking us and trashing (James Cleverly): I thank my right hon. Friend for us, we continue with this deceit when it is quite clear asking this important and timely question. Yesterday, that China is a clear and present threat. Beyond tearing on 19 July, the UK Government joined like-minded up the treaty, conducting a genocide and upsetting the partners to confirm that Chinese state-backed actors international order, China has now been found to be were responsible for gaining access to computer networks conducting systematic attacks on targets in the UK. around the world via Microsoft exchange servers. As Will the Government now finally agree to a diplomatic the Foreign Secretary made clear in a statement yesterday, boycott of the Beijing winter Olympics to make their this cyber-attack by Chinese state-backed groups was statement clear? reckless, but sadly a familiar pattern of behaviour. The On a personal note, you will know, Mr Speaker, that I Chinese Government must end this systematic cyber- set up, with others, the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on sabotage and can expect to be held to account if they do China—politicians left and right in 20 countries who not. are concerned about China’s activities. There are over The attack was highly likely intended to enable large-scale 200 members. I understand now that there is intelligence espionage, including acquiring personally identifiable from Five Eyes sources that shows that a very active information and intellectual property. At the time of and direct threat from the Chinese Government is aimed the attack, the UK quickly provided advice and directly at the co-chairs of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance recommended actions to those affected. Microsoft has on China. Some of the co-chairs, of which I am one, reported that, at the end of March, 92% of customers have now been warned by their intelligence services in had installed the updates that protected against the receipt of this that they should be very careful and that vulnerability. they will be supported. Can I ask my right hon. Friend As part of that announcement, the UK also attributed to confirm whether his Government are in receipt of the Chinese Ministry of State Security as being behind this same intelligence and, if so, why have they not activity known by cyber-security experts as APT40 and informed the co-chairs and others here in the UK, as APT31. Widespread, credible evidence demonstrates other allies have done? that sustained irresponsible cyber activity emanating Finally, Mr Speaker, China is not just a competitor. from China continues. The Chinese Government have These attacks tell us that they are a clear and present ignored repeated calls to end their reckless campaign, threat to the United Kingdom and to our beliefs in instead allowing their state-backed actors to increase freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law and the scale of their attacks and act recklessly when caught. human rights. It is time that the Government stood up, Statements formally attributing Chinese responsibility made that clear and boycotted these Olympic games. for the Microsoft exchange attack and actions of APT40 and APT31 were issued by the EU, NATO, the UK, James Cleverly: I thank my right hon. Friend for the Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand, Norway and points that he has made. The unanimity of voice among Japan. That co-ordinated action by 39 countries sees the international partners—the 39 countries that I listed—is the international community once again calling on the incredibly important to us, and we will continue to seek Chinese Government to take responsibility for their to work collaboratively with our international partners actions and respect the democratic institutions and in our response to this. My right hon. Friend makes the personal commercial interests of those they seek to point about Chinese investment, or Chinese purchasing— partner with. The UK is calling on China to reaffirm specifically Newport Wafer Fab—and that is a decision the commitment made to the UK in 2015 as part of the that the Government are looking to review. He asks G20 not to conduct or support cyber-enabled theft of about the differential language between China and Russia. intellectual property or trade secrets. Our response is based on the actions, and we will continue to react robustly to any and all cyber-attacks Sir Iain Duncan Smith: I simply make the point that it that occur. He will understand, I am sure, that I am not is a surprise that it has taken you, Mr Speaker, to bring necessarily going to go into details here and now about the Government to the Dispatch Box when they could what further measures we might take, because to do so have made a statement yesterday. might undermine their effectiveness, but we will continue This is the latest form of Chinese attack—it is not a to work with international partners; and, as I said in my one-off—on the west, which has included espionage, answer to his question, the Chinese Government should economic sanctions against Australia, wolf warrior expect to be held to account if they do not come back diplomacy and naval aggression in the South China sea into compliance with norms of behaviour. to name but a few. With regard the Olympics, my right hon. Friend the I have some questions for my right hon. Friend. Will Foreign Secretary has said that we have not as yet made he explain why the Government did not come to the a decision on formal attendance at the Olympics. The House yesterday to make a statement? Given that this is attendance of athletes is ultimately a decision for the 811 Cyber-attack: Microsoft20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 812

[James Cleverly] of this particular attack. The National Cyber Security Centre and Microsoft gave advice at the time and, as I British Olympic authorities. On intelligence matters, my say, by the end of March it was estimated that 92% of right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford organisations had installed the patch to protect themselves. Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) will understand that we Advice is available to any organisation that still thinks it do not discuss intelligence-related issues on the Floor of may be at risk in some way, both from the National the Chamber, but I take his point about making sure Cyber Security Centre and from Microsoft. that people who are potentially the target of overseas With regard to our attendance at the winter Olympics, intelligence actions are given the opportunity to defend my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary answered themselves against them. that point in departmental questions. There is nothing more that I can add to that. Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab) [V]: This is an unacceptable attack, costing businesses millions and raising the alarm The hon. Lady asked about naming and shaming. for people across the country, who will be concerned The fact that 39 countries collectively put their name to that their personal information could be compromised. the statement is unprecedented, and it sends a significant The Government confirmed yesterday that a quarter of signal that countries are working together to steer China’s a million servers were affected worldwide, but how actions. China is a significant economic and political many British businesses and organisations were victims player. We cannot pretend that China does not exist. We of the attack and how many may still be vulnerable? want China to change its behaviour, and we will work What is the cost to British businesses of compromised with international partners to urge it to do so. As I say, data and were public bodies among those targeted? Can we reserve the right to take further actions if necessary. the Minister guarantee that hospitals, local authorities, universities and this Parliament have not and will not be Mr Speaker: I call the Chair of the Intelligence and compromised? Security Committee, Dr Julian Lewis. The Government have been repeatedly warned about this. A year after the Russian report was published, still Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): As the no meaningful action has been taken. The Computer ISC’s inquiry into China is still current, I shall limit Misuse Act 1990 is now three decades old. It was myself to asking why the Government generally describe written before smartphones, before Google—before the the communist Chinese system as authoritarian rather public could even use the web. When will the Government than totalitarian, what the Minister’s understanding is finally update it? The Minister says that this is a pattern of the difference between the two, and whether the of behaviour, and he is right, but Ministers have tried Chinese regime took any steps to close down the hacking naming and shaming before. It did not work then, so group APT10, which was denounced in a similarly why would it work now? Only weeks ago, President Xi forceful statement by the then Foreign Secretary, my said that those who expressed dissent about China’s right hon. Friend the Member for South West Surrey actions would (Jeremy Hunt), and our allies in December 2018. “have their heads bashed bloody against the Great Wall Of Steel forged by over 1.4 billion Chinese people.” James Cleverly: I understand the point that my right hon. Friend makes about the use of language. I am not Last year the Government were willing to act. They in a position to have a debate on that specific point, but announced targeted sanctions against individuals involved I make the broader point that the UK Government’s in the Russian state-backed cyber-attack on the German actions, and indeed the actions of our friends and allies Parliament. So why are there no sanctions in response around the world, are based on actions whether they be to the Chinese state-backed cyber-attack on, among from Russia, China or wherever else, rather than on the others, the Finnish Parliament? narrow definition that may be found in international The truth is that the Government are unable to send a documents. clear, coherent message to Beijing because they are still The reason that we put out this joint statement and arguing among themselves. Just two weeks ago, the attributed responsibility to state-backed Chinese actors Chancellor was telling Mansion House that it was time is to let the Chinese Government know, to an extent, to realise the potential of our relationship with China. that we can tell what they are up to and we will not While the Foreign Secretary imposes sanctions, the accept it. That is why taking actions in concert with our Chancellor is cashing cheques. It is extraordinary that international partners is so important and will always the Minister can stand at the Dispatch Box today and be the foundation stone of whatever else we choose to refuse to tell us how he will safeguard critical infrastructure, do in response to the behaviour, if it does not change. or whether he and his colleagues will board a plane to Beijing early next year to participate in a public relations Mr Speaker: I call the SNP spokesperson, Alyn Smith. exercise. The seriousness of this attack must concentrate minds. We need a coherent strategy. When are we likely to get one? Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP): I warmly congratulate the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford James Cleverly: In response to the specific questions Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) on raising this vital that the hon. Lady raised, we estimate—we can only issue, and echo his concern about the fact that this was estimate—that 3,000 UK-based organisations were put an urgent question rather than a statement made proactively at risk by this attack. It was an untargeted action. It was by a representative of the Government. not targeted at specific sectors. We do not believe that I was glad to hear a Minister say that China can Government organisations were a victim of it, and expect to be held to account for this truly breathtaking because it was an untargeted action it is not possible for attack, which facilitated a range of attacks on private me to give a credible assessment of the economic damage and public organisations on a broad scale by other 813 Cyber-attack: Microsoft20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 814 actors. I applaud the statement that there will be has raised about ensuring that individuals who may be sanctions—there will be measures—but I would like to the target of cyber-attacks are given all the support that hear what they are, because a somewhat homeopathic they need both to defend themselves and to respond to approach to date does not seem to have had much of an those attacks. impact on stopping anything. Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD) [V]: May I suggest that it is the UK Government’s It is absolutely right that we are working in lockstep breathtaking lack of policy coherence that is giving with our international allies to combat these attacks on mixed signals to Beijing? I can give a fairly concrete our cyber-security. However, the Minister will be aware example. China General Nuclear Power Group remains of hugely concerning reports that activists, civil society a significant stakeholder in the Hinkley Point C nuclear leaders, Government officials and politicians around power plant, but the UK is pushing for another deal at the world have been targeted by NSO Group’s Pegasus Sizewell which will involve an even bigger Chinese state software. Is he aware of any individuals in the Government, holding. May I also suggest that ending policy incoherence or indeed any UK citizens, who have been targeted by starts at home, and we should really see about that? that software, and is there any indication that it may have been used by the Chinese Government? James Cleverly: Countries around the world trade with and receive investments from China, and, as I have James Cleverly: The House will understand that I will said, pretending that that does not exist or that it is not not discuss security and intelligence operations at the a significant economic player in the world is completely Dispatch Box, and that I therefore will not be responding unrealistic. What we are seeking to do is change China’s to that part of the hon. Lady’s question. We do of behaviour, and we are doing it collaboratively with our course know about the capabilities of the Pegasus software; international partners. its licensing is ultimately a decision for the Israeli The hon. Gentleman asked what specific actions we Government, but we are working closely with our friends would take. I will not answer in detail at the Dispatch and allies around the world in response to any emerging Box—[Interruption.] For the same reason that we do technical threat at this time. not discuss intelligence matters, we do not speculate on Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): Cyber capabilities future sanctions, because to do so would undermine the are the new arms race, but skills are in short supply. effectiveness of those measures. However, as I have said, How can we best work with our allies to build the we and our international partners have made it clear skilled workforce we need to defend ourselves in cyber- that these actions will not go unresponded to. space? Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con): If you will allow James Cleverly: My hon. Friend is absolutely right me, Mr Speaker, I should like to wish you, and especially that skills are an important part of our arsenal to the people on the estate who are celebrating it, a very defend ourselves. The Government are working with happy Eid Mubarak. industry, academics and many other partners to ensure I am not going to ask the Minister to explain China’s that we develop the essential cyber-skills we need to be a actions, but I want him to try to explain why we do not credible force in the modern world. In April, we launched align ourselves with our allies—particularly the United the UK Cyber Security Council as a new professional States—who have moved much further on this issue, body for cyber to raise standards and guide people notably in protecting individuals who have been sanctioned through their career. In addition, the UK has committed or targeted by China. As has already been mentioned, to promoting an international stability framework for IPAC’s website has been hacked twice; colleagues on cyber-space, based on the application of existing IPAC are also being hacked, as it were—I cannot think international laws, voluntary norms of responsible of a more appropriate term—and there are four sanctioned behaviour and confidence-building measures. MPs on the call list today. We need far more support Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: than is being provided at present. Once again, we see no member of the Cabinet here. I May I ask the Minister whether the Foreign Office take it they are all somewhere else, taking precautions I has reached out to Alan Estevez, who was appointed by hope, perhaps at Chequers. the Biden Administration to take over security with a Will the Minister please wake up? A young John special focus on China tech concerns? We seem to be Kennedy came to the London School of Economics moving at a snail’s pace while America is moving far after the war and wrote a book, “Why England Slept”, faster, and, of course, China is light years ahead. It is and of course it was about appeasement. Are we talking here, Mr Speaker: it could be hacking the estate, it could today about appeasement? This is a ruthless Chinese be hacking sanctioned MPs’ websites or email addresses Government, and they are systematic in the way they and it could be hacking Ministers’ servers, but we are target intellectual property in universities and companies. none the wiser, and we do not feel any more protected There is no respect for democratic institutions from after the Minister’s response to the urgent question. China. We have allowed the Chinese to buy significant strategic assets in our country, and the UK Government James Cleverly: I completely understand my hon. have no courage in facing them down. Friend’s concerns, but I assure her that we work incredibly Please do not let England sleep this time. Wake up, closely with international partners, including the United Minister. Please deliver that to your boss in Chequers. States of America. The unprecedented number of countries and multilateral organisations that co-authored yesterday’s James Cleverly: The hon. Gentleman may not have statement is testimony to how closely we are working on been at his screen during departmental questions, but this issue as an international community. However, I the Foreign Secretary was in the House earlier and will certainly take back the points that my hon. Friend spoke about the UK’s posture with regard to China. 815 Cyber-attack: Microsoft20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 816

[James Cleverly] continue to work with our international partners to persuade China to come into accordance with the The simple fact is, as I said earlier, that we are acutely international standards and norms that we see other aware of the challenges and threats, but we are also countries around the world subscribing to. We want aware of the significant position that China takes in the China to be a better-behaved international player. We world. We have to be realistic in our response, and we cannot pretend China away; we cannot prevent China have to work internationally. That is why I am pleased trading and investing around the world, and neither that the 39 countries represented in yesterday’s statement should we, but we should ensure that its behaviour spoke with one voice, and we will continue to work with comes into line with the international values, norms our international partners to try to drive an improvement and standards that the rest of us subscribe to. in the behaviour of China and to make it clear to China that the countries with which it seeks to work expect a Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con) [V]: The exchange change in behaviour. We will take actions to support attacks mark a further dramatic escalation in China’s that. state-backed espionage, which is stripping our intellectual property and undermining our democracies. My right Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): hon. Friend the Minister is surely right that we must all The SNP spokesman, the hon. Member for Stirling work together with our international partners to defeat (Alyn Smith), is right: homeopathic remedies do not this escalating and aggressive pattern of behaviour, but work when we are dealing with a psychopathic regime. will he say a little more about the key themes within that We have had industrial-scale human rights abuses, international co-operation to try to stop this increasingly industrial-scale buying of influence in our boardrooms, aggressive behaviour? universities and schools, and now industrial-scale cyber- hacking of our computer systems. James Cleverly: My hon. Friend makes an important The Minister has quite rightly said there is widespread point: working with our international partners is an and credible evidence that this is a state-backed actor incredibly important part of this. The joint statement and state-backed sabotage, so where is the beef? Where that we made attributing responsibility to Chinese state- are the practical consequences for the Chinese communist backed actors is important because it is the precursor Government? What officials will be prosecuted or that legitimates further actions that we might take. It sanctioned? If he will not tell us if, will he tell us when seeks to make it clear to the Chinese Government that we will get a decision on the Olympics, on which this we can see what is happening—we are not blind to what House voted unanimously last Thursday? is happening—and there is no veil of anonymity behind which they can hide. That then gives us, as part of the James Cleverly: I am disappointed that my hon. international community, the opportunity to go further Friend echoes the rather flat joke made by the hon. if required. As I said in my statement, we have made it Member for Stirling (Alyn Smith). [Interruption.] I am clear, and are making it clear, to China that such future glad the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is actions will not go unresponded to. laughing, but I regard this as quite an important issue. The sanctions we imposed on the human rights abusers Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I don’t know, but in Xinjiang are not homeopathic. The fact that we have every time a Minister comes to talk about China to the granted visas to British national Hong Kong Chinese is House it feels as though they refuse to listen to what the not homeopathic. We are taking action, not all of which House is saying. We are looking for a sense of urgency I can discuss at this Dispatch Box. As I say, we will and determination, of backbone, of steel. Half the time continue to work with our international partners to it sounds as though the Minister is bored by what he is make sure that, collectively and collaboratively, we send saying. We have courageous Members of Parliament a very clear message that there are patterns of behaviour from different political parties who are sanctioned by that are unacceptable, and we strongly urge China to the Chinese Government and are being targeted by change its position and to come into line with international them, and all we can say is, “We are thinking of having norms, values and standards. a review of a policy decision. We might think about whether we are going to go to the Olympics or not.” We Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab) need some urgency and determination. We need to [V]: In Thursday’s urgent question on Newport Wafer stand by those colleagues who have been sanctioned, Fab, the Government emphasised their desire for a because this is not just about China—it is about all the “positive relationship with China, based on mutual respect and totalitarian regimes in the world. If we do not get this trust.”—[Official Report, 15 July 2021; Vol. 699, c. 537.] right, the rule of law and of democracy will pass us by. I hope the Minister recognises how naive that sounds, and that it reflects the chilling effect of China’s power James Cleverly: I understand and respect the passion and influence on criticism. Fortunately, politicians in all that the hon. Gentleman and others speak with, and no parts of this House, academics and businesses do continue one takes the targeting of parliamentarians lightly. We to speak out. What assessment has he made of the do not take the cyber-attacks on organisations around likelihood of those who oppose the Chinese state being the world lightly. My hon. Friend the Member for East the target of cyber-attacks, and what is he doing to Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) is no longer better protect them and us all? in his place, but as I said to him a few moments ago, we have imposed sanctions and we have offered the hand of James Cleverly: The hon. Lady raises a point that my friendship to British national Hong Kong Chinese in right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford response to the security laws that have been passed in Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) has already raised, and I Hong Kong. We are taking action and we will continue have already touched on it. As I have said, we will to do so. We seek to do so internationally, because that 817 Cyber-attack: Microsoft20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 818 is how we are strongest. We endeavour to speak with The reported cyber-attacks by the Chinese state have one voice on these issues and make it clear to China that undermined the security and integrity of thousands of so do all the countries with which it may want to work networks worldwide. What discussions has the Minister in future. That is what we seek to do, and we have been had with NATO in relation to the cyber-attacks on successful in doing so: an unprecedented number of Microsoft servers earlier this year? What further steps countries spoke with one voice yesterday.Wewill continue will he take to expose these Chinese state-sponsored to work with partners to push China towards a better attacks, to ensure that this is not a recurring pattern of course of action. events—which it quite clearly seems to be at the moment?

Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): Last year, Redcar and James Cleverly: The hon. Gentleman makes an important Cleveland Borough Council was the victim of a ransomware point. I am very pleased that NATO was one of the cyber-attack that originated from Russia. Like others, I signatory organisations to yesterday’s statement as an am increasingly concerned by the rise of such foreign important multilateral partner, along with the European attacks online, some of which are state-backed like the Union. As I have said in response to a number of ones that we are discussing today. Will the Minister questions, that joint statement is an important and assure me that he is working across Government to necessary foundation stone on which other actions are build our resilience to this worrying trend? built, making it clear to the Chinese Government that James Cleverly: I can assure my hon. Friend that we we can see what is happening—we are not blind to it. are working across Government on the issue. Werecognise The fact that we are able, with a very high degree of that it is an incredibly important area of activity: as we certainty, to allocate specific responsibility for actions is are now all reliant on information technology and cyber- a really important step, which must not be underestimated, space, these cyber-attacks go to the very heart not just towards what else the UK, more likely working in of our ability to conduct commercial activity, but of conjunction with international partners, might choose public service and government. We are building up our to do in response to further such attacks. domestic defences and have already delivered a sustained programme of investment through GCHQ and the National Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con): China has a widening Cyber Security Centre to establish the UK as a global sphere of influence. Was this discussed at the G7 summit? leader in cyber, but we are not just reinforcing resilience I am pleased to hear that 39 countries have signed up. Is in the Government; we are helping everyone, including the UK leading that group or simply part of that group businesses and families, to take basic, necessary steps to in mitigating threats? Most importantly, what can the stay safe online. Minister say to those in Bosworth and up and down the UK about protections for the UK’s businesses, interests Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) and citizens when it comes to dealing with China? (Ind): Given that in the past the NHS in England has been paralysed by cyber-attacks due to outdated systems James Cleverly: I can assure my hon. Friend that the and Microsoft Windows vulnerabilities, what steps are UK is very much taking a leadership role with regard to the UK Government taking to ensure faster roll-out of the development of cyber-security and cyber-response. computer system upgrades with an aim to preventing We are always most effective on issues such as these vulnerability to such cyber-attacks in future? when we work in close conjunction with our international James Cleverly: I thank the hon. Lady for raising that partners, and I can therefore assure him that at multilateral point. As I said in response to my right hon. Friend the gatherings this will always be one of the issues that is Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain important to us. On the practical steps that people can Duncan Smith), the immediate response to the attack take, I would urge people to heed the advice from the was to release a patch. By the end of March, 92% of National Cyber Security Centre and take a range of organisations had installed it and closed the vulnerability. relatively simple and practical steps that will help to Advice has been provided by the National Cyber Security protect them and their organisations from cyber-attacks. Centre and by Microsoft to deal with any residual impacts. Government computer roll-out programmes Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba): will always have cyber-security at the very heart of their The Chinese cyber-attack is of real concern, but it is thinking, planning and deployment. most certainly not the only game in town. The Guardian reported on something equally concerning this weekend, Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): which is Project Pegasus from the NSO Group. It has The Chinese state harbours and collaborates with cyber- been used in the surveillance of humanitarians, including criminals, as well as being guilty of genocide. A sound the late Father Stan Swamy in India. With our own telling off, no matter how stern it might sound, will have concerns in this House around the surveillance of the no impact on this brutal and ruthless regime. Does the former Secretary of State for Health, which led ultimately Minister understand the House’s impatience with what to his resignation, I would like to know what our seems today like more hand-wringing and platitudes? involvement is with Project Pegasus, if we actually have any involvement. What are we doing to monitor that James Cleverly: Yesterday, 39 countries spoke with undetectable phone app, which provides full access to one voice, attributing responsibility to Chinese state-backed phones that become infected in a way that is untraceable? cyber-criminals. That is a necessary precursor to other actions that, collectively or individually, we may choose to take. James Cleverly: The hon. Gentleman will understand that I am not going to speculate or comment on individual Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): China has total cases. Ultimately, the licensing of this software is the disregard and disrespect for anybody or any country responsibility of the Israeli Government. I can assure that stands opposed to its warped and perverted ideology. him that we speak regularly with our partners globally 819 Cyber-attack: Microsoft20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 820

[James Cleverly] question, with the Minister being, if you like, dragged to the Dispatch Box. Will the Minister explain why the about the importance of maintaining cyber-security Government did not volunteer a statement on this very and about how important it is for us all that cyber- important matter? technologies are used responsibly. We work closely with our allies around the world to tackle cyber-threats and James Cleverly: I was not privy to the discussion to improve the overall global resilience to such attacks. about the statement, urgent question or otherwise. Yesterday’s statement was made by and in conjunction David Johnston (Wantage) (Con): It is not just that with international partners. I can assure my hon. Friend China steals so relentlessly, but also the reason that lies that I do not need to be dragged to the Dispatch Box to behind the theft, which is that its communist regime be questioned by colleagues and Opposition Members does not support innovation in a way that countries on this incredibly important issue. such as the US and the UK do. Does my right hon. Friend agree that countries or companies thinking about Mr Speaker: Just to say—when statements are not getting closer to China should look at this latest example forthcoming, I will continue to give UQs. in a very long list of breaking international norms and Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): In March, steer clear instead? the former head of the National Cyber Security Centre James Cleverly: My hon. Friend makes an important said that the Government have been confused in their point about going into relationships with China with approach to China. After the failed policies of the eyes wide open. That is why this message of attribution so-called golden era, the subsequent persecution of yesterday was so very important. It sets out that the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang, the persecution of Buddhists international community can see clearly what is happening and other minorities, the suppression of democracy and and will highlight it publicly so that, wherever in the free speech in Hong Kong, the military aggression world they are, people can see what is really going on. against its neighbours and now this state-sponsored Ultimately it is not the job of the UK Government to cyber-attack on Microsoft Exchange servers, when will dictate to other countries how they interact with China, the Government finally lay out a consistent approach to but we are and will always be a powerful advocate for dealing with China? human rights, for the protection of intellectual property James Cleverly: I have made the points that the UK and for those norms of behaviour that the international Government recognise the significance of China on the community, including ourselves, very much holds dear. world stage, that we want China to be a responsible Ultimately, we want China to amend its behaviour. actor, that we recognise that China will engage in trade That is ultimately what we will seek to achieve, and we and investment with countries around the world and will work with our international partners to pursue that. that we seek to influence China to be a better player on the world stage. This is best done in conjunction with Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab) [V]: I thank the international partners, which is why the attribution right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green statement yesterday was so important, with an (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) for securing this urgent question. unprecedentednumberof countries—39—workingtogether He highlighted the recent indirect acquisition by a to attribute responsibility.As I said, that is the foundation Chinese firm of Newport Wafer Fab in my constituency. stone upon which other actions may well be taken in the This appears to have slipped through the UK Government’s future. screening system. My focus and commitment to the people of Newport West is on protecting jobs for people John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con) [V]: The success in my community. Does the Minister think that this or failure of the COP26 rests heavily on whether the situation shows that the Government’s security policies UK, as chairman, can persuade China—the world’s simply are not working? largest emitter of carbon dioxide—to set tough targets to cut its output. Is this affecting the Government’s James Cleverly: We do value jobs; jobs matter. Jobs in response to this issue? What is the UK’s strategy to emerging technologies and high-skilled manufacturing influence China across the piece, as there are many jobs are incredibly important to us, which is why we areas where it needs to do so? value overseas investment, but why we also take our responsibility to secure intellectual property incredibly James Cleverly: I can assure my right hon. Friend seriously. The Government are looking at the situation that the actions of the UK Government in response to with regard to Newport Wafer Fab. We will always this cyber-attack are driven by this cyber-attack and ensure that we look at the security implications of our our complete unwillingness to accept it as a pattern of commercial relationships, whether with China or behaviour. He does make an incredibly important point anyone else. though, and it reflects the point that I have made that we cannot simply ignore China. A previous question Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) [V]: Listening this morning highlighted the fact that China is still to the Minister, it appears that the Government policy heavily reliant on coal as an energy production source, is that China has done something unacceptable, the and we know the climate change implications of that. Government have found them out, and if the Chinese We want China to behave better on the international do it again the Government will take action against stage both on things such as cyber-security, intellectual China, although they are not specifying at this time property and human rights, but also on the incredibly what that action will be. If that is the case, I do not important agenda that will affect our children, our understand why there was not a statement to the House grandchildren and our great-grandchildren, which is by the Foreign Secretary after departmental questions, the protection of the environment and a move towards when he could have laid this out, rather than an urgent greener energy generation. 821 Cyber-attack: Microsoft20 JULY 2021 Cyber-attack: Microsoft 822

Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP): and individuals conducting these cyber actions and The Minister is right in one sense, because attribution is that it severs any links that it might have with such important, but actions also matter,so while we congratulate organisations. him on the statement of 39 signatories—that is a positive step—when he looks at sanctions, should he not look at Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): the very least for an audit of the role of Confucius Colleagues across the House have spoken about institutes in institutions up and down the United Kingdom? appeasement. The truth is that the Ministry of State Moreover, the current patchwork of international norms Security will curb its maligned perversion of the digital benefits authoritarian states over democratic ones. Is it Silk Road only if the west shows its willingness to not time for us to heed the advice of the Microsoft respond in kind. Among the 39 signatories that the president, Brad Smith, in calling for a digital Geneva Minister has cited today, what appetite does he discern convention? for a willingness to develop doctrine around the use of cyber interdiction for use in a measured and proportionate James Cleverly: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his way against those who threaten and attack us? thoughtful contribution. Internationally, we will have James Cleverly: I thank my right hon. Friend and to look at how we deal with this new sphere of human predecessor for the point that he has made. I hope he activity.It is moving quickly and there is not an established will understand that I will not speculate at the Dispatch framework to which the international community subscribes Box about the nature and scope of our cyber capabilities, in the way there is for armed conflict, for example. That save to say that we are a global leader, particularly in is an incredibly important point. cyber-defence, although of course that is not the only I also thank the hon. Gentleman for recognising the thing that he mentioned. With regard to our international significance of having a range of international partners partners, this is something that we do discuss. In the and multinational institutions on the statement that we recent G7 Foreign and Development Ministers’ made yesterday. As I have said a number of times, it is communiqué, the G7 expressed serious concern about an important but necessary precursor to other actions human rights violations in Xinjiang and reiterated the that we might take. It highlights to China that we can call for independent experts to be given unfettered see what action it is taking and also that its actions access to Xinjiang. The international community is contradict commitments that it has made. We are not aware of, thinking about, talking about and taking trying to hold China to our standards; we are trying to action on some of the activities of the Chinese state that hold it to standards that it has put forward itself. That is we find unacceptable. an important part of trying to establish a global acceptable framework on behaviour in cyber-space. Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab) [V]: This hack shows that the need for a Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP) [V]: China’s comprehensive approach to cyber-security is probably military and Government have been targeting key industries greater than ever before. In the light of this latest in the west, including the defence industry, Government attack, will the Minister now give a date for the publication and intellectual property. This has been known for so of the Government’s new cyber-security strategy? long now, yet what have the Government done so far? James Cleverly: The right hon. Lady is absolutely They have protested, and handed dossiers of evidence right that a comprehensive approach to cyber-security on what the Chinese authorities are up to, but it seems is incredibly important. As I say, the UK is proud of the that China is almost now no longer scared of being fact that we are a global leader in cyber-security. The caught because the sanctions are so weak. If we can publication of the document she mentions, and others, impose sanctions on Russia for cyber-attacks, why can will come in due course. I am not able to give her a we not impose hard and hurting sanctions on China? precise date at the Dispatch Box at the moment. James Cleverly: I completely understand the right Mr Speaker: Let me just say to all Members who have hon. Gentleman’s point. He will understand that we participated that my call list says that some were to be never speculate on the future use of sanctions because virtual and some physical, but nobody seems to be what to do so could be counterproductive to the effect that I am being told on this list. A lot of effort goes into we are trying to have on China. As I say, this is an creating it—a lot of staff time—and staff need to know important foundation stone statement. It sets a very where Members are. If you intend to be physical, please clear line in the sand from the UK, the US, Japan, let us know very early, and if you are going to go NATO, the EU and others that we recognise what is virtual, please also let us know. Do not let me have to happening here, that China can no longer plead ignorance, start spotting who is here around the Chamber and who that we demand that it takes action against organisations is not. 823 20 JULY 2021 824

Point of Order Dogs (Protection of Livestock) 1.26 pm Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23) Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): On a point of order, Mr Speaker, of which I have given you notice and also notified the Leader of the House. You will be 1.34 pm aware that yesterday a statement about vaccine passports Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): I beg to move, was made at the Dispatch Box by the Minister for Covid Vaccine Deployment. There is a relevant part That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Dogs that potentially pertains to the House of Commons. He (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953; and for connected purposes. said: Earlier this year, one of the farmers in my constituency “By the end of September, everyone aged 18 and over will have suffered a horrific attack on his sheep. Tecwyn Jones had the chance to receive full vaccination and the additional two found seven pregnant ewes and three rams dead in his weeks for that protection to take hold. At that point, we plan to field in Bodedern. They had been killed by an unknown make full vaccination a condition of entry to nightclubs and dog or dogs in what police described as a “brutal and other venues where large crowds gather. Proof of a negative test horrendous attack.” will no longer be sufficient.”—[Official Report, 19 July 2021; Vol. 699, c. 688.] When I visited Tecwyn’s farm, he told me about the It seems to me that when we get back to normal, that impact the attack had had on his business and his definition, particularly on a Wednesday, could equally wellbeing. His account of the event was harrowing. apply to the House of Commons. It would be outrageous Tecwyn shared the awful moment when he found his if the Executive were to attempt to prevent any Member sheep: coming across one dead sheep, then another of Parliament from attending this House to represent dead sheep. They were sheep he had lovingly reared, our constituents without first undergoing a medical their faces torn and bodies twisted. His sheep had been procedure. brutally killed and had clearly suffered horrendously. I raise this matter with you, Mr Speaker, because I The dogs that carried out the attack have never been hope you will be able to make a ruling on it. In closing, identified. Even if a dog were suspected, the law has no I just note that your 17th-century predecessor, Speaker teeth to identify and seize it unless it is found unsupervised Lenthall, stood up very effectively against an over-mighty at the scene of the assault. For Tecwyn, it was not just Executive and it did not end well for the over-mighty the financial loss that hit him, although that went into Executive. thousands of pounds, but the emotional loss of these prized animals, which he had put his time and devotion Mr Speaker: It did lead to the end of the monarchy as into rearing. well, I might add, for a short period, so let us hope we Tecwyn is not alone. This is a huge issue for farmers are not quite going back that far. across the UK. Livestock worrying takes place when I am grateful to the right hon. Member for giving me dogs that are not kept under proper control attack or notice of his point of order. I have had no indication chase livestock, particularly sheep. Although attacks that the Government consider that the policy he mentions are not officially recorded, and it is widely accepted that should apply to this House. What I would say, as many incidents go unreported, it is estimated that around Speaker of this House, is that there is nothing to stop a 15,000 sheep are killed by dogs each year. Member coming in here. You have the right to come to this House unless this House otherwise says so. The With the increase in visitors to the countryside during Government have not been in touch and I do not expect lockdowns, incidents of livestock worrying have grown them to be in touch, because as far as I am concerned over the past 18 months, and the financial impact has this does not apply to Members. increased. Data from the National Farmers Union indicates that the average insurance claim for attacks is over I will now suspend the House for three minutes to £1,300, and some claims rise to tens of thousands of enable the necessary arrangements to be made for the pounds. In 2020, the cost of livestock worrying to the next business. farming community was estimated to be around 1.28 pm £1.3 million. Sitting suspended. I first became involved with this matter when local farmers such as Brian Bown and Peter Williams raised BILL PRESENTED it as a significant concern. I met Rob Taylor, Dave Allen MINIMUM ENERGY PERFORMANCE OF BUILDINGS BILL and their colleagues from the North Wales police rural Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) crime team, who have been working with farmers, such Sir David Amess presented a Bill to make provision as the NFU county adviser Iestyn Pritchard, to gather to increase the minimum energy performance of buildings; data and work through proposed solutions. It soon and for connected purposes. became apparent to me that the legislation currently covering livestock worrying, the Dogs (Protection of Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Livestock) Act 1953, is outdated and no longer fit for Friday 22 October, and to be printed (Bill 150). purpose. It is hardly surprising given that it has barely Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Sir David been touched in 68 years. It has not kept pace with dog gets the prize for the best colour co-ordinated background ownership, leisure trends, DNA technology or modern and tie. farming practice. Earlier this year, as part of the Government’s animal welfare action plan and as set out in the Queen’s Speech, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs introduced the Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill. 825 Dogs (Protection of Livestock)20 JULY 2021 Dogs (Protection of Livestock) 826

Part 2 of the Bill addresses dogs attacking or worrying By raising the penalties for livestock worrying and livestock. Although I welcome its content, I share the making the regulations clearer, we want the Bill to concerns of farmers across the UK that it still does not highlight the problem and be used as a way to educate go far enough. Yes, it gives the police greater powers to dog owners. A recent survey found that only 40% of tackle livestock worrying incidents and it expands the dog owners accept that their dog could injure or kill a scope of species that are afforded protection to include farm animal, and the same survey found that 64% of llamas, ostriches and game birds, but it still fails to give dog owners allow their pets to roam free in the countryside, farmers the security they so desperately need. despite half of them admitting that their dog does not That is why I have pursued this ten-minute rule Bill to always come back when called. By their very nature, pet make amendments to the 1953 Act. Specifically, my Bill owners and farmers almost universally care deeply about proposes that the police be given the power to seize a animals, and much of the solution to this problem is dog or other items and to take DNA samples where about raising awareness of the countryside code through they have reasonable grounds for suspicion that a dog legislation. It is vital that dog owners who live near or has worried livestock. It further seeks a clearer and visit land on which livestock is being raised understand tighter definition of “close control”, which is used in that, even without physical contact, sheep can die or both the Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill and the miscarry as a result of the distress and exhaustion 1953 Act. The definition of “close control” in the kept caused by a dog chase. animals Bill requires that a dog This May,19,000 people supported the NFU’scampaign “is within sight of a person and the person remains aware of the for changes to legislation to prevent dog attacks on dog’s actions, and has reason to be confident that the dog will farm animals. In presenting the Bill, I represent them. I return to the person reliably and promptly on the person’scommand.” represent those such as the North Wales police rural Experience shows us that the natural instincts of even crime team who have worked hard to raise awareness of the best-behaved domestic dog can take over when this important issue. I represent Tecwyn Jones and the other animals are in close proximity. It has to be a legal hundreds of other farmers who have suffered financial requirement that dogs be kept on a lead when they are and emotional loss through dog attacks. I represent near livestock of any kind. decent, law-abiding dog owners everywhere. I represent Finally, the upper limit of the fine, currently set at a the animals that should not have to bear this unbearable maximum of £1,000, must be removed. Where farmers suffering. are facing costs of up to £20,000, irresponsible dog Question put and agreed to. owners must be made to realise the full financial impact of their actions. Resolved, I reassure my hon. Friends that these proposals are That Virginia Crosbie, Sarah Atherton, Craig Williams, not intended to persecute dogs or dog owners. I am a Simon Baynes, Alun Cairns, Mr David Jones, Dr James dog owner myself, as are most famers, and none of us Davies, Andrew Rosindell, Neil Parish, Bill Wiggin, wants to see dogs destroyed or owners made to suffer. We know that in many cases the dogs that carry out Damian Hinds and Robin Millar present the Bill. livestock worrying will be otherwise lovable and good Virginia Crosbie accordingly presented the Bill. natured family pets that abscond from their premises in the absence of their owner or are left off the lead on Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on countryside walks. Friday 10 September, and to be printed (Bill 151). 827 20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 828

Nationality and Borders Bill citizenship, the introduction of the requirement for applications to show a sustained connection to the UK was one of my inquiry’s key recommendations. That is [2ND ALLOCATED DAY] reflected in clause 8. It comes at the expense of the Second Reading previous requirement for applicants to prove that they Debate resumed (Order, 19 July). were physically present in the UK five years before their Question proposed (19 July), That the Bill be now application. That helps to remove a barrier towards read a Second time. Britishness while reducing the need for applicants to Amendment proposed (19 July), to leave out from rely on costly legal advice for their application. The clause “That” to the end of the Question and add may also benefit non-British members of the armed forces, who might serve abroad for protracted periods. “That this House declines to give a Second Reading to the Nationality and Borders Bill, notwithstanding the need to address Clauses 1 to 4 remove some of the remaining anomalies the increasing number of dangerous boat crossings in the English associated with British overseas territories citizenship, Channel, because the Bill breaches the 1951 Refugee Convention, allowing mothers and unmarried fathers to pass on does not address the Government’s failure since 2010 to competently BOTC status, which could previously be passed on only process asylum applications which has resulted in a backlog of by a married father. That introduces a most welcome cases and increased costs to the taxpayer, fails to deal with the route to full citizenship for those who hold BOTC serious and organised crime groups who are profiteering from human trafficking and modern slavery, does not address the passports in 14 qualifying territories,including the Falkland failure to replace the Dublin III regulations to return refugees to Islands, whose residents, as we all know, have as much a safe countries, fails to re-establish safe routes and help unaccompanied sense of being British as those living here in the UK. child refugees, and fails to deliver a workable agreement with Another welcome change is outlined in clause 7, France to address the issue of boat crossings.”—(Nick Thomas- which creates a new process for the discretionary registration Symonds.) of adults as British citizens in circumstances when they Question again proposed, That the amendment be would otherwise have become British had it not been made. for historical unfairness in the law, an act or omission of a public authority, or other exceptional circumstance. 1.43 pm As the House will be aware, the Home Secretary already Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire) (Con) [V]: I am possesses the power to grant citizenship on a discretionary delighted to warmly welcome many of the measures basis to children. However, by extending that right to outlined in this Bill, specifically those to make some adults, the Bill will benefit those such as the Windrush well-reasoned amendments to nationality law and victims who have been stranded abroad or young adults consequently our policy towards those wishing to become who have grown up in care and whom the local authorities British citizens. neglected to register as British as a child, or registered them under the EU settlement scheme. As the House will no doubt be aware, citizenship is often the smaller, quieter sibling of immigration policy. The Bill, in making those amendments to nationality Successive Governments have often, and quite law, goes a long way towards simplifying the citizenship understandably, prioritised their focus and thoughts on process for those who wish to be British. There are, immigration—how to control it, who to let in, why and however, further areas of citizenship policy to which I when. The Government have done very well in reforming and the inquiry have recommended changes, not least our country’s immigration policy in the midst of our the cost of a citizenship application. The cost of becoming exit from the European Union. We have reshaped our a British citizen is £1,330. Let us compare that to the immigration system toward our country’s needs, which cost in Australia, which is £155; in Canada, which is is the correct approach for a country navigating different £373; in New Zealand, which is £243; and in the United waters in a brave new world as we move towards a States, which is £590. I would be most grateful if the global Britain on the world stage. Minister explained why the cost of an application is extremely high, compared to the cost in those countries. Previous Governments, however, have seldom thought I urge the Government to consider a much more reasonable about the part after immigration, and it is to this application fee and reduce that further barrier to becoming Government’s credit that they are now doing just that. a British citizen. Last year I had the pleasure of chairing an independent inquiry into UK citizenship policy with the highly Overall, I welcome the Government’s proposals to regarded think-tank British Future; it included a number make the offer of citizenship more open and accessible. of colleagues from this House and experts from relevant I hope we can go further in ensuring that those who stakeholders such as the Law Society of Scotland. The have chosen the UK in which to work and build their inquiry’sreport, which is entitled “Barriers to Britishness”, lives, and who have made enormous contributions, have sought to explore the means and capacity for possible that matched by the offer of citizenship. I will support reform in this often-forgotten area of policy to see how the Government’s Bill this evening. the UK Government could take a more welcoming and positive approach to those who have come here, built Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): We their lives here and made a significant contribution begin with a time limit for Back-Bench speeches of here. six minutes. It is often said that the journey to become a British citizen is too expensive or too complicated. However, I 1.49 pm am pleased that the Government have taken on board a Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP): First, I number of my inquiry’s recommendations. As a result, thank the hundreds of constituents who have written to the Bill goes some way towards simplifying the process me asking me to oppose the Bill, which I will this of becoming a British citizen. For those applying for evening. I am proud to be here as a Member of Parliament 829 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 830 for Glasgow. I praise Glasgow’s role as a dispersal city, the United Kingdom. By vowing to continue that practice, and the great work of organisations such as the Govan the Government are ignoring the views of public health Community Project and the Govan Home and Education experts. It really is astonishing. Link Project, which help asylum seekers on a daily basis. The independent chief inspector of borders and Glasgow is well aware of the reality of asylum seekers’ immigration described the Home Office’s use of that experiences, which we cannot really contemplate. Victims sort of accommodation as a “serious error of judgment”, of torture, sexual violence and persecution—that is the while the immigration court ruled earlier that the Home reality of asylum seekers’ experience. As restrictions Secretary failed to ensure that deaths in immigration ease, the Government had an opportunity to introduce detention centres were properly investigated. A Home some substantial legislation to address the inequalities Affairs Committee report published in December 2018 that the covid pandemic has exposed, such as an described the conditions in which vulnerable people are unemployment Bill to deal with precarious work or, being housed as “degrading” and called on the Home indeed, to reform the broken social security system. I Office to show “greater urgency”. am afraid that this Bill exposes the Conservative party My last concern is that we want to follow the Australian in all its guises, because it is the politics of the dog model. Centres in Australia saw cases of sexual whistle—the politics where every person seeking sanctuary abuse and the rape of refugees leading to some falling is viewed with suspicion. pregnant, and there were instances of staff using I read Hansard today and the phrase “economic unreasonable force, while the remoteness of offshore migrants”was used liberally by Conservative Back Benchers facilities also caused deaths due to the lack of healthcare yesterday. Perhaps they could benefit from Show Racism facilities. the Red Card coming in here, as they do in classrooms Glasgow has risen up to the Home Office time and in Glasgow, and explaining the difference between an again, as we did in Kenmure Street, and I was very asylum seeker, a refugee and an economic migrant, proud to be there exercising my right to freedom of because I suspect that some Conservative Back Benchers peaceful assembly. The people of Glasgow in opposing would fail that simple test. It is the politics where the the Bill say this: “Say it loud, say it clear: refugees are legal profession is collectively dismissed as Marxist, welcome here”. despite some incredible court rulings. For example, Serco obtained an extraordinary High Court ruling that private sector companies, which the Government use 1.55 pm across public services, do not have to comply with basic Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con) [V]: human rights legislation when providing accommodation The Nationality and Borders Bill is important and to asylum seekers. necessary legislation to address the growing problem of It is surprising to hear Government Members say illegal entry into the UK by migrants crossing the that the legal routes issue is different from those in the Dover straits. Last year, in 2020, more than 8,500 people Bill. It is not. If the Government close legal routes to made such a journey in small vessels: 87% of them were seek sanctuary in this country, it cannot be a surprise men and 74% were aged 18 to 39. This year, over that people would be so desperate that they choose to 8,000 have already completed the trip, including a record try other routes into the UK. There has been a lack of number of 430 in a single day—and that was yesterday. real engagement in the consultation process for the Bill. For residents on the Kent coast, including in my The Bill was, of course, published before any formal constituency, it has become a fact of life that, when the response to the consultation—a consultation in which weather is good and the sea is calm, hundreds of many organisations that deal and work with asylum undocumented asylum seekers will attempt to cross the seekers on a daily basis raised real concerns that have channel in small boats. not been addressed. We need to be clear that illegal crossings of the Depriving asylum seekers of the chance to obtain channel are dangerous and cost lives. In recent years, competent legal representation and to challenge poor migrants have died while being smuggled in lorries. decisions increases the risk of returning people to extremely There have been deaths from people trying to walk serious danger. That approach also ignores the numerous through the channel tunnel, and there have been drownings reasons why refugees may be unable to provide all the at sea from people trying to make it across the channel evidence and information regarding their case at an in small boats. We cannot allow this to continue. No early stage in the procedure. Such reasons include a lack country would allow this to continue, or should. of knowledge of the system. Asylum seekers do not The Government have made substantial investments, have expertise in the UK’s immigration system when along with the French authorities, to improve security they get here fleeing oppression. They do not know at the port of Calais and the channel tunnel, making it what evidence they have, so it should not be a surprise much harder for people to gain illegal entry there. that people who are survivors of trauma do not immediately Improved patrolling along the French coast has led to disclose information, especially women and survivors of the successful detection of many people as they attempt sexual violence. to make their crossing, but before their vessel enters the There are a number of concerns. I mentioned water. Some people have called for vessels to be intercepted accommodation. It is astonishing that Home Office at sea, and suggested—I think wrongly—that vessels providers of asylum accommodation do not need to use are just being escorted across the channel by the French registered social landlords to provide that accommodation. authorities or by our own. I do not think that is the Even worse, the Government now want to legislate to case. Vessels need to be intercepted before they get into increase the use of military barracks. That is utterly the water, as interception at sea is dangerous if the unacceptable and will do serious harm, I fear, to the migrants on the vessels are not co-operating with the mental health of many of those seeking sanctuary in authorities. 831 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 832

[Damian Collins] to people who live on the Kent coast, too. We need to close this route down and give people safe routes to this We cannot, of course, patrol in French waters, and we country and safe ways to claim asylum. are reliant on the French authorities to do that. Of course, it would be much better if they could do that 2 pm just as those vessels leave French waters, when returning Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: In to France would be easier, but we have no means to 1933, Einstein lived in Norfolk, guarded by local residents patrol in its waters. I would say, though, that excellent and a Conservative MP to prevent attempts to assassinate work has been done at sea when it has been needed by him by the Nazis. At the time, he said: Border Force and most importantly—I would like to thank this group of people—by the volunteer lifeboat “I shall become a naturalised Englishman as soon as is possible men working for the Royal National Lifeboat Institution for my papers to go through.” at the lifeboat stations from Dungeness in my constituency He never did get those papers, though. round to Dover, who are now regularly called out to Throughout this debate, I have heard Members laud assist people in distress at sea. our history of accepting refugees as if it somehow explains and justifies the Bill before us; as if our capacity Pascale Moreau, the European director of the United as a nation to retrospectively see that we did the right Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, said a couple thing means that we are doing so now. Yet even when it of years ago of this problem: came to geniuses like Einstein, the term “asylum seeker” “Our collective response should be comprehensive and has always meant second-class citizen. There are no complementary—from saving lives to combating smuggling rings, photographs of the parents of the Kindertransport expanding legal options, and ensuring that all those who are in children, the ones denied entry by Whitehall, only to be need of protection can effectively access it”. murdered by the Nazis. When it came to east African That is why the approach set out in this Bill is so Asians, we introduced the Commonwealth Immigration important. Act 1968 to make it harder for them to seek sanctuary. Now we have orphaned children sleeping rough on our We need to make it clear that illegal entry to the UK border with France and in Greece in overcrowded covid- is not a shortcut to residency in this country. We need to ridden camps, and we say that they must be safe so they make it clear to the people traffickers who prey on are not our problem. vulnerable people for profit that they will face tough sentences for bringing people illegally into this country. Let us stop re-writing the UK’s history to provide We need to make people think again before attempting cover for legislation like this, which makes plain the these life-threatening crossings. That is why it is right Government’s disdain for those who find themselves that the Bill addresses that. It will make it illegal for with little alternative but to run for their lives. They people to arrive in UK waters without permission, want to penalise people for how they run, creating a which it already is; increase the maximum sentences third class of citizens who are at perpetual risk of being for people who are arriving in the country illegally from deported: because they did not queue properly and fill six months to four years; make it a criminal offence to in the appropriate form, they did not travel directly to knowingly arrive in the UK without permission; an island nation or present themselves immediately for and introduce tough new sentences for people a claim, they must be suspect, regardless of their story traffickers, so they know they will face lengthy prison or why they fled, breaching the refugee convention. I sentences—up to life prison sentences—if they are involved hear this a lot: “Well, they came through France, Germany, in operating people trafficking rings. These are the Belgium. Why should we help them?” The convention is reforms we need. clear that there is no requirement to claim asylum in the first safe country. It was intended to get nations to work Alongside these reforms must also go the work for together to help make managing those at risk possible. safe routes to make sure that migrants and asylum It is true that it was easier to quietly ignore those in seekers are aware of safe legal routes to enter this danger when there were not that many of them, before country. The safe routes scheme this country invested in the mass refugee camps in Sudan or the Syrian civil war, saw more than 25,000 refugees settled in this country but just because the challenge is harder does not mean from 2015 to 2020. In addition, more than 29,000 close that our response should be, too; that we should be a relatives joined people in this country.Under the vulnerable nation that does not keep its promises to the 3,000 children persons resettlement scheme, working with UNHCR, we said we would take under the Dubs scheme; we have we were able to identify the most vulnerable people in only taken 480. Turkey is taking 4 million refugees and the most dangerous places and give them a safe route to we are quibbling about 26,000 applications. The vast enter this country. majority of refugees end up staying in the areas they We want people to take that route, not to put their have run from, displaced and living in developing countries lives in the hands of people-trafficking gangs to make a when wealthy ones like ours want to look the other way. journey across Europe and a life-threatening journey Persecution does not happen in an orderly fashion. across the channel, but instead to work with the authorities Wars are not run to a timetable to be able to make in war zones and danger zones, where we know people people make applications. You run, you grab your children, are displaced and need help, to give them a safe legal you flee with what you can, you try to save their route to this country and to know that at the end of that lives—yes, many of them boys and young men—from safe legal route will be a successful asylum claim and certain death. What parent cannot understand that with it indefinite leave to remain in the UK. That is the ambition? We all want to stop the traffickers, but the route we need to establish. We need to close down the gangs will use these changes as a selling point to those illegal crossing points, which are incredibly dangerous, desperate people. If we want to stop the gangs then take that are profiting criminal gangs and are rightly concerning away the market, but there is no safe and legal route 833 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 834 being proposed here, no new commitments made. The Cleveland is more than 300 miles from Dover, I am vulnerable persons resettlement scheme has stopped. If contacted about illegal immigration almost daily. The we think that the only place that people are running Labour party likes to pretend it is not happening, as we from is Syria, we do not understand what is going on in have heard from some of the contributions so far today Ethiopia, Iran, Afghanistan, to the Uyghurs, to LGBTQ and yesterday, but it is happening, and the refusal of people in Myanmar, or to Christians and religious some to acknowledge it is part of the reason why minorities around the world. Labour no longer represents seats such as mine. I am Ministers claim the legislation will protect women here to share the views of those I represent, and I from trafficking when it will do the reverse, because it is believe that we owe it to the public to finally address the not based on any evidence. Their own statistics show problem. that the majority in detention referred to the national There are a few in my constituency who want Britain referral mechanism are then recognised as potential to completely close its borders to asylum seekers and victims of trafficking and that 81% of reasonable grounds refugees—I believe they are wrong. Equally, there are rejections that are challenged are granted a positive some who want us to be borderless and do nothing to ruling, yet many of those women would fall into that prevent illegal immigration into this country, and they group, too. Women repeatedly abused on their journeys are wrong, too. The vast majority of people in Redcar here, who cannot find the words to speak about the hell and Cleveland, including me, want us to help those they have been through, will be criminalised because most in need and offer protection to those facing persecution they did not have all their paperwork neatly folded while preventing illegal entry into this country. about their person for presentation during this time. Locking them up in detention centres reinforces, not That is why this Bill is so important. We can have a removes, the abuse they face. Yarl’s Wood is a stain on firm but fair approach to illegal immigration. “Firm” our national identity, a place where victims of sexual means stopping people from jumping the queue by abuse and rape in war are jailed. Not only does it cost crossing the channel. “Fair” means new, safe legal routes more than community schemes to run, but it retraumatises to asylum in the UK. “Firm” means a new one-stop those women over and over again. process for claims and an end to repeated meritless Home Office costs are spiralling, 40% of appeals are appeals. “Fair” means improving support for genuine successful and more and more people are forced to live refugees to help them to build their lives here. in misery and destitution as a result of the scheme we We have to be honest with our constituents about have. The Government’s solution is to try to house them what is happening in the small boats on the channel and offshore in a move that makes Yarl’s Wood look in lorries through the tunnel. People are being smuggled compassionate. Those who have lauded the Australians into this country, and those who evade detection are and their offshoring facility at Nauru would do well to vulnerable to modern-day slavery and further trafficking read the horrifying accounts of the sexual abuse of within the UK. It is simply not a case of people fleeing women and children over the years, in addition to the war-torn areas or escaping persecution; they are travelling hundreds of incidents of threatened and actual self-harm, from France. The vast majority of those who arrive are and ask whether this is really the path we want to go male, and almost exclusively they are over the age of 18. down. Many lie about their age. As the Home Secretary said Einstein said: yesterday, in 2020, 8,500 people arrived by boat. Some “A bundle of belongings isn’t the only thing a refugee brings to 87% of them were men, and of that 87%, 74% were aged his new country.” between 18 and 39. Out there, the British public know that. They know that These people are loaded into floats that we could we need a system that can process people fairly and barely call dinghies, which are overfilled, leaving them quickly. They know that but for the grace of God there at risk of capsizing, or they are pushed into the back of they go. If the worst were to happen to them and they lorries, where the driver is often unaware of the live had to flee their homes, they would want a new home cargo being carried. Many have paid hundreds of pounds that saw them not as a burden, but as a benefit. Our for the journey, and in some cases thousands, although past does not mean we cannot build a future in which it has dropped in recent months, to jump the asylum we make that ambition a reality. This Bill will not stop queue and deny a legitimate asylum seeker a space. the boats; it will encourage them. So let us not give the criminal gangs their latest recruiting tactic. I urge colleagues I use the word “legitimate” because these people are to vote this Bill down and stand up to those who want crossing the channel. They could have claimed asylum to demonise refugees. Let us come together to come in France, Italy, Spain or Germany, or any other safe back with something that can make Britain proud of country they have travelled through. It makes their how we treat the persecuted, not an international pariah. reason for attempting to settle in the UK solely economic. Without intervention, they risk death in the back of the 2.6 pm lorry,like the tragic case of October 2019, where 39 people were found deceased in the back of a trailer in Essex. Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): This Bill is incredibly Many would drown in the channel, like the estimated wide-ranging, and I associate myself with the remarks 300 people over the last 20 years, which is why our made by my hon. Friend the Member for South emergency workers and Navy must intervene, putting Leicestershire (Alberto Costa) about the nationality their own lives at risk, too. Who could argue for this to changes. However, I will confine my remarks to illegal continue? Who could say that we should not do all we immigration and allow other Members to get in. can to make this route unviable? What is the compassionate This debate is particularly poignant today, when we response? We should be proud of our record on overseas hit a new record high for small boat crossings, with aid contributions and to have resettled more refugees 430 people crossing in a single day. While Redcar and than any other European nation. This is a matter not of 835 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 836

[Jacob Young] a 24% drop in the last year alone, yet the Home Office is pandering to scare stories and myths from the far right us turning our back on the world but of making sure with the introduction of this Bill. As a result, this that our immigration system is firm but fair in the way legislation will not only seek to criminalise asylum that the British people would demand. seekers, but create more bureaucracy and a bigger work I come back to the point that I have made over and load for officials, lengthening an already delayed process over again in this place: the most compassionate thing and trapping people further in limbo for years to come. we can do to help these people is to make the route There has been no real attempt to engage with experts unviable and prevent the crossings altogether. on this approach. Almost 200 organisations have criticised the consultation associated with this Bill, framing it as a 2.10 pm “sham” with a premeditated outcome. I could not agree in any stronger terms. Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) A message from his eminence Pope Francis that we (SNP): Disturbing, dysfunctional and destructive—three all received for the forthcoming World Day of Migrants of the most commonly used words by my constituents and Refugees stated: in their correspondence to me when discussing this anti-refugee Bill. To my mind, the Bill is nothing more “We are all in the same boat and called to work together so that there will be no more walls that separate us, no longer others, than a ploy by this consistently callous Tory Government but only a single ‘we’, encompassing all of humanity”— to take a sledgehammer to a 60-year-old treaty, the only global legal instrument that there is to deal with the a vision that could not be further from this Tory protection and rights of refugees. This UK Government Government’s agenda. are torching their international human rights obligations The UK once had a long history,they say,of welcoming under the 1951 UN refugee convention. We as people escaping conflict, poverty, oppression and representatives in this place are in very real danger of natural disaster. That tradition should have been assisting in the committing of crimes against humanity protected under any new legislation, recognising the by turning our backs on those in need of safety and on interconnectedness of our global family, and cognisant how this Bill will criminalise these people. History will of the colonial past of this place’s empires. The Home shame us all in every essence. That is why I oppose the Secretary’s plans to send asylum seekers thousands of Bill in the name of the people of Coatbridge, Chryston miles away, to be processed in third-world countries, are and Bellshill. both insane and inhumane. The idea that asylum seekers This legislation will be nothing short of a punishment can simply be shipped off somewhere else while those to those fleeing war, persecution and human rights claims are assessed, is frankly a fantasy. Asylum seekers atrocities. It will create an asylum system that undermines are people. They are human beings, not packages to be international law and will cost the already failing Home disposed of. Office vast amounts of time and money. This legislation, The UK needs only to look at Australia’s experience despite the Government’s promises to increase safe and to learn that overseas processing centres for asylum legal routes for people urgently requiring refuge around seekers cause incredible psychological damage. They the world, will contain no such commitments whatsoever. are eye-wateringly expensive, and they do nothing to The Tories have actually boasted that this Bill will deter asylum seekers. It could not be clearer: the Home create a “global Britain”, able to act as a force for good; Secretary is deliberately misinterpreting international instead, this is a cruel, callous piece of legislation that law to pander to her own political base. That cannot be fails in both practical and moral terms and reneges on denied. The idea that the system is broken for some our international responsibilities. unknown structural reason is complete and utter nonsense. The Bill will cause misery to thousands of people, After 11 years in power, the responsibility for that lies leaving behind what is already a toxic legacy for this firmly with this Conservative Government. The Bill will Home Secretary, and will introduce a further embedding do nothing to fix things. It will only make a rotten of a racist, hostile, xenophobic environment for us all to system worse. contend with in our daily lives as it leaks from this place into our society. This anti-refugee Bill will not solve any 2.16 pm of its real problems, which have been caused not by the Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con): I welcome comparatively small number of people who do seek the opportunity to take part in this important debate. asylum but by decades of Governments in this place Many contributions during yesterday’s debate, and this and their complete mismanagement. Successive UK afternoon, have been about specific legal and technical Governments of any hue have failed time and again to aspects of the Bill. In the short time available, I want to operate an effective and efficient asylum system, restrict my comments to the impact of the current fundamentally failing to deliver timely and high-quality system on areas such as Stoke-on-Trent, and say why I decision making. Nothing in the Bill will make the support the principles laid out in the Bill. I will outline necessary improvements. Instead, taken together, the why doing nothing is not an option. Bill’s provisions will slow the process down, increase Stoke-on-Trent has stepped up to take more than its delays, increase destitution and mental illness, and cost fair share of asylum seekers under the asylum dispersal the purse and, more importantly, the people of these system. Because we are a compassionate city, we care countries much, much more while it destroys lives and about the most vulnerable, and we do so by deeds, not relationships with our global partners. empty words. Many who have taken part in this debate Many asylum seekers have lived through dreadful represent areas that do not currently participate in the experiences and faced devastating loss. The Home Office’s scheme, and I would respectfully suggest that their calls plans will only add to that trauma. Asylum claims in for fairness, and the unwillingness to condemn or curb the UK are falling and are at historically low levels, with illegal and dangerous routes into this country, should 837 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 838 be matched by a clear commitment to take their fair and considered contributions to the debate, as the hon. share of the ever-increasing numbers of asylum seekers Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) did who land on our shores. just now, while others took the opportunity to stoke the According to recent figures, the Home Office had very worst fears associated with the Bill and there were voluntary arrangements with 95 local authorities clearly some who used the basest arguments to debase throughout the UK on accepting the dispersal of asylum the process. I do not believe that that serves Parliament seekers. To put that in context, there are 398 principal well as we consider the Bill’s Second Reading. councils in the UK. As part of the regional dispersal I was encouraged by the continued work of the right policy established in 2000, an advisory cluster limit was hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain set by the Home Office of one asylum seeker for every Duncan Smith). I pay tribute to him for his contributions 200 of the settled population. In Stoke-on-Trent, we yesterday highlighting his concerns about part 4. It was have already reached 79% of capacity on that basis, encouraging to hear not only about his and Lord McColl’s second only to Coventry within the west midlands. continued commitment to provisions of previous legislation, Crucially,there are neighbourhoods where the concentration but about his engagement with the Home Secretary and of asylum seekers raises the risk of increased social her commitment to leave open the opportunity to tension, as well as challenging the capacity of local thoughtfully and productively consider changes to the health, education and other support services. It has Bill. placed a heavy burden on our council services, as well as In considering part 4, I think not only of the reduction on our brilliant local voluntary and community of the practical support to confirmed victims of modern organisations, especially during the pandemic. slavery and human trafficking from 45 days—it will Stoke-on-Trent is a city with a big heart, and no one remain at 45 days in Northern Ireland and Scotland—but wants to see this country refusing to help young, of the disparity between what is available in those unaccompanied minors, or genuine victims of modern 45 days and what will be available in the 30 days that slavery. I welcome the Government’s commitment to clause 52 proposes. I think of the conflict that will arise that principle. It is right that we put into domestic law with the legislation that we passed in Northern Ireland, international obligations for a recovery period, during which was sponsored by my noble Friend Lord Morrow: which victims of modern slavery receive support, and the Human Trafficking and Exploitation (Criminal Justice establish a law, on the basis of which confirmed victims and Support for Victims) Act (Northern Ireland) 2015. are eligible for temporary leave to remain. There is much work to do on the issues, and I trust that I do, however, receive significant correspondence from we will get the opportunity to do it in the forthcoming local residents, calling for a crackdown on illegal stages. immigration. The call comes from ordinary, decent I raise again the issue of indefinite detention, which people who believe in fairness and who want our has not featured much in our debates on the Bill. I hope Government to stand up for those in genuine need, that the Bill will provide another opportunity to build while removing those who have no right to be in the on the cross-party support that has been garnered for UK. They want us to crack down on the criminal ending indefinite detention. It is wrong, it is cruel and it trafficking networks that exploit the desperation of the serves no place that somebody can be detained on most vulnerable. They want us to ensure that the UK is immigration grounds with no indication of how long not a safe haven for foreign criminals. Over the past six they will be detained or how they will be released from years, the UK has directly resettled 25,000 people—more detention. I hope that the Bill will give us a fresh than any other country in Europe—from places of opportunity to consider that fully and bring some finality. danger, and refugee family reunion has seen 29,000 On refugees, I think it fair to say that we have a proud people come to the UK over the same period, so we will record as a country, although we should not rest on our take no lectures on our credentials as a compassionate laurels. The figures have been cited throughout our Government. debate: 25,000 refugees have come to the United Kingdom Stoke-on-Trent City Council has worked closely with since 2015, and a further 29,000 family members have the Home Office, and we welcome the Department’s been resettled in this country. That is good, but it is by commitment to bring 560 jobs to our city. It has no means the totality of the story. Concerns have been demonstrated a commitment to levelling up and a raised about conflict with the 1951 convention and recognition that Stoke-on-Trent is the ideal location for about the introduction of a two-tier process. If we the new immigration caseworking innovation centre. are—as I believe we are—a truly welcoming and truly The Bill is important legislation with the principle of compassionate country, there are issues in the Bill that fairness at its heart. I am delighted to support it. will need to be resolved in Committee. I took the opportunity in my engagement with the 2.20 pm Minister to highlight a report—HC 158—that issued from the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP) [V]: I appreciate at the start of this month. It raises the anomaly that, by the opportunity to contribute to this debate. One benefit virtue of the Belfast agreement and the Irish Government’s of having it over two days has been that those of us who approach to these issues, someone born in Northern are speaking today have had the opportunity to reflect Ireland can attain Irish citizenship by simply filling in fully on the contributions made yesterday. the form and paying a fee of £70, whereas someone I am grateful for the Minister’s engagement with me born in the Republic of Ireland who had spent the on Friday about the principles of the Bill, the thought entirety of their life living in the United Kingdom, in process behind it and what the Government hope to Northern Ireland, cannot do the same; they have to go achieve. From reading yesterday’s Hansard, it is clear through exactly the same citizenship process,pay £1,330 and that there were hon. Members who made thoughtful prove their proficiency in English. Let me give one 839 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 840

[Gavin Robinson] people are queue jumping, taking up spaces that we are quite rightly prepared to offer to vulnerable families in example. That applies not only to hundreds of people refugee camps coming from those places of danger who who live in the north-west and around the border areas have gone through the right procedures—genuinely of Northern Ireland, but to a former Speaker of the vulnerable families whose lives are in peril. Northern Ireland Assembly and a Member of our Frankly, this is happening because the French House of Lords. He is entitled to vote upon and contribute Government have consistently failed to close off this in the parliamentary affairs of our country, but he is not route. They could prevent more of those boats getting entitled to citizenship unless he pays £1,330 and proves into the water in the first place; goodness knows we his proficiency in English—that is nonsense. The hon. havegiventhemenoughresourcesandsecurityco-operation. Member for South Leicestershire (Alberto Costa) referred They could intercept them and take them back to to clauses 7 and 8, and I ask that the Minister meets us French shores. They could allow Border Force to take to consider how best we resolve this issue and pick up those who have been intercepted in British waters back on the recommendations made by the Northern Ireland to French shores. The Home Affairs Committee has Affairs Committee during the passage of this Bill. The been reviewing this issue, and we have taken advice hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch from international maritime lawyers who confirm that East (Stuart C. McDonald), the spokesman for the the French would be in their rights to do that. They Scottish National party,made some fair criticisms yesterday refuse to do so. and highlighted some fair concerns about the Bill. The That is why there are people coming to Calais, causing Bill will receive its Second Reading, so I hope we chaos on the French coast—because they think there is continue to engage with and construct the right outcome a chance to get across the channel to come to the UK, in forthcoming stages so that it is truly fit for purpose. whether or not they have any claim to be here. If the French were to cut off that route so that the chances 2.26 pm were that anyone trying to get into the water would be Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): returned safely to French territory, having paid a lot of I rise to support this Bill, which contains some sensible money to people traffickers, people might just think measures, particularly on regularising the citizenship of again and the French coast, particularly Calais, would certain mothers, fathers and members of the military, no longer be a magnet for them. and prioritising the rapid removal of foreign criminals, It would be in the interests of the French to do that. who really should not be in this country. I also appreciate Why on earth are they not doing it? There would be a that it is a controversial Bill and it will need close mutual benefit. I understand fully the Home Secretary’s scrutiny in Committee. But something desperately needs frustration and why further measures need to be taken to be done, because our asylum and immigration system unilaterally. The French have failed to play ball and are is broken. It is broken, first, because it is hugely bureaucratic. trying to make their problem our problem. As the Windrush scandal showed, there are so many different criteria for being able to claim citizenship or I have a few specific queries. First, I have had a query right to residency in the UK. It is a hugely complicated from the Shoreham lifeboat crew about potential liabilities and burdensome system. Secondly, it is very expensive, on lifeboats rescuing some of these migrants trying to as we have heard. It is becoming a cash cow for the get into the UK illegally, and whether they are at risk Home Office. For example, a leave to remain application under the terms of the Bill. Some reassurance would be typically costs £1,033, of which the cost to the Home good. Office is just £142—that represents a profit to the Home Many times,I have called for and supported amendments Office. Thirdly, for genuine refugees, especially children to introduce a proper replacement for the Dublin family in potentially dangerous situations, the process takes reunion scheme—one that is not less generous than far too long. There is a lack of urgency from immigration what we had pre-Brexit—and for an equivalent of the officials on the ground in the country of application or Dubs scheme, which did a great deal in rescuing genuinely from the Home Office here. As constituency MPs, we vulnerable children. know of countless cases of constituents who have I pay tribute to the We Belong charity, led by the waited months and years in limbo simply because their excellent Tashi Tahir, which has been standing up for application is still being processed. Whether they are some 330,000 children and young people in a precarious successful or they fail in their application, they deserve state, having come legally with their families to this to be dealt with speedily and with respect so that they country. They are mostly Commonwealth citizens who can get on with their lives in whatever form that will are bright and want to contribute, but they have to wait take after the application is assessed—that is just not 10 years to regularise their status, at a cost of some happening. The queue is far too long and is taking too £12,771, through applications for leave to remain every long to shift. 30 months. If they fail to pay, their status becomes Fourthly, despite its shortcomings, the process is now illegal, and if they then want to start again, they have to being routinely bypassed by those who come across the start all over again. That is not fair. There should be at channel illegally, usually because they can afford to pay least a five-year route to permanent status. I welcome people traffickers. For those of us representing south the fact that the Under-Secretary of State for the Home coast constituencies, that is causing a huge amount of Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay chaos and great resentment. Without the proper dispersal (Kevin Foster), has been having discussions with the system that the country desperately needs, Kent County charity. I hope that he will be sympathetic and we will Council bears the brunt of the children who must be get some changes to the Bill. taken into care. We also have all the fears about the beta There are many other things that I would mention, variant coming in through the back door. This is not the but in six minutes I have not had time. Above all, the way for people to come to the UK. Effectively, these Bill must get the balance right. We need to be tough on 841 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 842 those people who come through the wrong routes but 2.36 pm ensure that there are safe and legal routes for those to whom we genuinely owe a debt of safety, to give them Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con): I will support proper refuge in this country. the Bill. I welcome the aim to establish a plan that will resolve some of the historic abnormalities in British 2.32 pm nationality law, particularly in clauses 1 to 4, and I am pleased that the Home Secretary has undertaken this Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab) [V]: I am task to ensure that those in genuine need will be protected. proud to represent Sheffield, Hallam. Sheffield was the This pandemic has shown us that the Government must first place to call itself a city of sanctuary, and I pay respond quickly and correctly to emerging crises, and tribute to all the great organisations, such as City of that our border controls must be in place to prevent the Sanctuary Sheffield, the South Yorkshire Migration flow of covid and to ensure that our citizens are protected and Asylum Action Group, ASSIST Sheffield and many both here and abroad. more, that do such good work in my city—my home—to make it as welcoming a place as possible to people I also welcome clauses 5 and 6, which strengthen the fleeing war, persecution and violence. pathways to citizenship. As one who went through the immigration system, I can attest to how expensive it is It is in that spirit of humanity, compassion and and how convoluted it was previously. I welcome the genuine internationalism that I completely reject the Home Secretary’s work to create a level of expediency divisiveness written into nearly every clause and line and transparency for those who have rightly come here of this Bill. The Bill is divisive—in the way it pits to work, and to enter into legal citizenship because they so-called group 1, or “good” asylum seekers against want to contribute and be part of British society. I have so-called group 2, or “bad” asylum seekers; in the way known many people, not only constituents but friends that it stacks our legal system against some of the most of mine, who had to return to New Zealand, Australia vulnerable people coming to the UK; and in the way or South Africa because, although they had a right to that it criminalises altruism and basic acts of compassion. be here because they were ethnically British and were Every line of the Bill strains to break the human merely attempting, for instance, some kind of reunion, bonds that hold us all together. It is an affront to the the Home Office’s administrative hurdles on the path to spirit of the 1951 refugee convention. The convention citizenship were so challenging and difficult that many clearly states that refugees gave up and went back to their homes. I just hope that “shall enjoy fundamental rights and freedoms without discrimination,” these welcome reforms will allow those who genuinely yet discrimination seems to be at the heart of the Bill. want to be British and have every right to be here to access that citizenship, as I did. The Government know that there are no visa or pre-entry clearances for someone wishing to claim I pay tribute to the UK’shistory of refugee resettlement, asylum—there is no such thing as an “illegal asylum and to our scheme which will continue to ensure the seeker”—but the most vulnerable asylum seekers are safety of incoming refugees. I am proud that between those who rely on illegal methods to get into the country. 2016 and 2019 the UK resettled more refugees from The distinction between group 1 and group 2 asylum outside Europe than any European Union member seekers is a completely bogus differentiation which will state—and that includes the vital resettlement of vulnerable introduce more legal hurdles for some of the most children and the issuing of family reunion visas to bring traumatised and brutalised people on our planet. It is families back together. also chilling that there are no restrictions to prevent the Home Secretary from treating group 2 asylum seekers One of the key provisions in the Bill is the introduction differently.Those people are already under huge amounts of new and tougher definitions of criminal offences to of pressure to provide evidence of their cases, often deter people from attempting to enter the UK illegally. when they have had to leave their homes behind very It raises the penalty for illegal entry from six months to quickly. There are massive barriers to their submitting four years in prison, and introduces life sentences for coherent evidence on arrival in the UK. The proposal people smugglers. I also welcome the additional power for decision makers to doubt applications on the basis given to Border Force, including the ability to search of late evidence is a wilful misunderstanding of the unaccompanied containers in our ports and to seize challenges, the horrors and the deep trauma that asylum and dispose any vessels that have been intercepted. applicants have faced to be here, as well as the lack of The Government must curb the number of groups legal advice. who are trying to take advantage of vulnerable people One of the most appalling aspects of the Bill is the and exploit them for financial gain. Not only is that criminalisation of anyone who helps someone seeking illegal and inhumane, but it keeps dangerous pathways asylum to enter the country. What does that mean in open, which can lead to the abuse and loss of life of practice? For example, how is it compatible with the refugees trying to reach the UK. In order to provide duty of a ship to attempt to rescue people who are in targeted support to those who are in genuine need, the danger at sea? Government must regulate who is entering the UK so This Bill is discriminatory,a violation of our international that they can provide that support as quickly and as treaty obligations, inhumane, spiteful, and badly thought effectively as possible. For the safety and sustainability through. I suspect that it is more about appealing to a of our country, and the safety and wellbeing of refugees subset of ugly populist opinion than about addressing seeking to enter the UK, it is vital that the UK has a the real problems in the system, such as the lack of safe clear and effective plan to deter and prevent illegal entry and legal routes into the UK to claim asylum. Today I into our country. I welcome the fact that, through this will be upholding the best traditions of my constituency, Bill, we seek to crack down on illegal immigration so and voting firmly against it. that we can prioritise those in genuine need. 843 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 844

2.40 pm He went on to say: “Under this Government’s proposed plans, I would not have Anum Qaisar-Javed (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP): May been given the chance to become an NHS doctor, let alone learn I begin by wishing the Muslim community in my English or studied medicine at Cambridge University. I would constituency of Airdrie and Shotts and across the globe have been classed as an ‘illegal arrival’, denied access to the a very blessed Eid al-Adha? During this pandemic, asylum system, prosecuted for breaking the law, and…removed Muslims have been at the heart of community outreach, from the country.” with many mosques in various constituencies becoming My message to Waheed today is: sorry. I am sorry that vaccination centres. Many who follow the Muslim faith the country that you sought refuge in is treating people will be spending time today with their families and in this manner. I am sorry to those who are seeking eating. I will miss out on my mum’s famous biryani, but refuge that this Tory Government are moving towards a speaking in today’s debate is much more important. dangerous, far-right trajectory. I am sorry that this By naming this piece of legislation the Nationality country is meant to be a global power but is turning and Borders Bill, this Tory Government are attempting into little, insular Britain. My message to you is that the to legitimise a frankly abhorrent way in which to treat Scottish National party will stand by you and we will those who are escaping extreme violence, so let us just stand by your side against this Bill. call this Bill what it is: the anti-refugee Bill. This Government want to treat vulnerable people who are fleeing persecution, 2.44 pm many of whom are women and children, as criminals. The proposals in the Bill are a brutal, cruel and cold-hearted Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Ind): It is a pleasure to follow response by this Government. the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Anum Qaisar- Javed). It will come as no surprise that I do not agree I am astounded by the language that has been used with a great number of things that she said, but she may by those on the Government Benches; it is of great get some comfort from one of the proposals that I will concern. Refugees need compassion and not to be accused make later to improve the Bill. of being economic migrants. They are humans like all of us. To be perfectly frank, one of the main differences I welcome any Bill that aims to address historical between them and us is that most of us were born here. anomalies and areas of unfairness in British nationality law, and to make the current system of applying for Members have already referred to the two-tier system asylum fairer and more efficient. This Bill will ensure that the Tories are creating. This is a horrific way to that those who are in genuine need can be supported, treat some of the most vulnerable people in the world. and, at the same time, deter illegal entry into the UK. We cannot and must not send out a message that This is a timely and important topic and an area of law anyone fleeing persecution whose route out of that that we have needed to address for some time. persecution is to travel to the UK via other countries will automatically be viewed as a criminal. By focusing In recent years, we have sadly been haunted by terrible on the method of arrival, the Government are ignoring scenes and tragic reports of migrants losing their lives the fact that people do not have the luxury of phoning while attempting to enter the UK. That is why I welcome up and telling the Home Office that they will be arriving the changes proposed in this Bill. The Bill aims to save here to ensure that their arrival is approved. They are and protect lives by ensuring that only safe and legal literally fleeing conflict, running for their lives. They are routes into the UK remain, and proposes harsher in danger. punishments for human smugglers and traffickers, who are responsible for so much suffering. The introduction I have been elected to this House for fewer than of life sentences for human smuggling, by way of which 70 days. The Tories continually run away from any form so many lives have been endangered, will attempt to of international responsibility and co-operation. From combat and condemn the exploitation of migrants. the cuts to aid budgets to this two-tiered refugee system, Tougher criminal sentences for those attempting to this Tory Government are pushing their “us versus enter the UK illegally will also steer those seeking them” narrative. They are pitching communities against asylum towards safe and legal routes, and ultimately one another. Of course, we should not be surprised by protect their lives. that. I have spoken previously in this very Chamber about the manner in which this Tory Government view Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and immigration and foreigners coming into this country. Kirkintilloch East) (SNP): What the hon. Member is Just because someone was not born here or does not advocating and what the Government have in this Bill is have a British passport does not mean that they will not a criminal offence punishable by up to four years in makeavaluablecontribution,whethersocially,economically prison that would apply to a Uyghur fleeing ethnic or politically. cleansing in China, to a Syrian fleeing war crimes there, Dr Waheed Arain is just one example. Waheed fled or to a persecuted Christian fleeing for their life. How forced conscription into the Taliban in Afghanistan as a can any Government or any party justify locking up child and made an irregular journey to the UK. Under these people for four years? the proposed rules, Waheed would not have been granted refuge by this country, which, historically, has offered Rob Roberts: I recall serving with the hon. Gentleman protection and opportunity.Waheed Arain is now working on the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination as an NHS doctor. He released an open letter, in which (EU Withdrawal) Bill Committee, so I am very much he said: aware of the experience and expertise that he brings to “I spent my childhood hiding from rockets in refugee camps in this debate. The short answer is that this Bill does an Afghanistan. Fleeing the civil war, I arrived in London, separated awful lot to end human trafficking and the nasty, awful from my family, as a traumatised 15-year-old. I dreamed of environment that is being fostered by the criminal gangs becoming a doctor.” who are putting lives at risk. I appreciate everything 845 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 846 that the hon. Gentleman says and the expertise that he NHS, so that those who spend time helping and treating brings to the debate, but I do not necessarily see it in the us can finally feel like they belong and are welcomed in same way as he does. our country with open arms. The UK has a proud history of supporting the most vulnerable people worldwide,having resettled more refugees 2.51 pm than any other country in Europe. The Bill ensures that Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I would like to the Government stand by their moral and legal obligations start by echoing what the hon. Member for Airdrie and to help people fleeing cruelty around the world, while Shotts (Anum Qaisar-Javed) said and to offer my best condemning those who break the law. wishes to the Muslim community in Bristol as they Let me turn briefly to another element of the Bill. celebrate Eid. Attention needs to be given to the costly and arduous I am proud that Bristol has declared itself a city of routes to citizenship that are bureaucratic and expensive sanctuary for people fleeing violence and persecution, for those who are already settled and working in the an initiative that was welcomed by the United Nations UK. I declare an interest, as my partner is an overseas High Commissioner for Refugees. Our Mayor, Marvin NHS worker. This is a perfect example of what I mean: Rees, has spoken about how providing this safe haven many of our NHS workers who have worked day in, day with the right support structures in place has become an out to provide the best possible care to patients throughout asset for Bristol, enriching our culture, driving local the pandemic have come from other countries. Often innovation and improving international connectivity. these individuals have travelled great distances and put their own lives at risk to help and save our lives, regardless The success of the English football team in the Euros of their or our citizenship; their duty to care and shows the strength that can come from embracing diversity contribute to the wellbeing of their patients is what in Britain, whether from first, second or third generation comes first and I commend their hard work. families. Today we heard the good news that Kenneth However, with fees for indefinite leave to remain at Macharia, a mechanical engineer who plays for the almost £2,400 and citizenship applications another Bristol Bisons rugby team, has won his asylum appeal £1,330, the process of becoming a citizen for many of after a five-year battle with the Home Office, and I want our NHS workers is a costly and challenging one. As to pay tribute to his solicitors at South West Law. In my the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) 16 years as an MP, South West Law has been one of the said last week during an intervention in the Health and very few firms in the area that I can be confident of Care Bill debate, if we offered indefinite leave to remain referring people to. It has always been there to give to all of our NHS workers who are here on renewable reliable legal advice and has helped many people. visas, I feel confident that the gap in the NHS workforce Sport is brilliant at bringing people together and would almost certainly close and, simultaneously, we bridging cultural divides, and so is food. In Bristol we would be recognising their hard work and sacrifices. have a social enterprise called 91 Ways, after the number The over 160,000 NHS staff from over 200 different of languages spoken in the city, that uses food and countries who stated that they were of non-British culinary traditions not only to celebrate diversity but to nationality account for nearly 15% of all NHS staff for break down some of the barriers between different whom a nationality is known. It is undeniable that we communities. The largest such community in Bristol is would be in dire straits without them. Should we not the Somali community, with maybe 20,000 people of therefore consider changing our current citizenship process Somali heritage in the city. Some have long-standing to one that does not deter NHS workers through high connections with this country, particularly those from costs and time-consuming processes, one that does not the former British colony of Somaliland who have leave them in debt and in poverty but instead rewards served in the British Army and worked in the docks, but their commitment to their communities? many others arrived here as refugees, fleeing one of the I welcome the many steps that the Bill takes to most dangerous places on earth in search of a safe place improve the UK’s asylum and immigration system to to live. make it one that is based on needs, and I welcome the In my years as an MP, I have met so many people, new NHS visa that has been announced by the Home including children, who have been through horrendous Office. Given that the Government themselves have experiences, leaving them with not just physical but already recognised the importance of creating a bespoke deep mental scars. Yes, I have met others whose cases route for incoming NHS workers, I feel it is also our were not so clear cut, but no matter what the stories are duty to focus on those who have already given so much behind their journeys to the UK, I believe that people to our country, by creating a new route to citizenship who arrive here seeking refuge should be treated fairly for existing NHS workers. and with dignity, not demonised. They should be given One of the objections to this could be that once a fair chance to tell those stories with proper legal indefinite leave to remain or citizenship had been conferred, representation. the NHS worker would be free to go to the private Of course we want the people who come here to sector or to a different role altogether, having benefited claim asylum through a safe and legal route, and we from the fee abolition. That could be easily resolved. need a firm but fair legal process so that we can best Companies do this all the time,paying fees for qualifications support those who need it most, but the Joint Council for individuals that would become repayable if that for the Welfare of Immigrants has told us how the few individual then left the company’s service. There does legal routes that do exist are inadequate and highly not seem to be any reasonable reason why a similar restrictive. It is clear that this is what needs fixing in the scheme could not be put in place to make this workable. system, not the issues that this Bill is purportedly trying As I have said before, in this place and in Westminster to address. This is especially true for children. It is Hall, it is time to abolish the fees for indefinite leave to shocking that the Government have—wilfully, I believe— remain and for citizenship for those who work in our done so little so far to implement the Dubs amendment. 847 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 848

[Kerry McCarthy] Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): If the hon. Gentleman describes the people who seek the A refusal to provide ways for people to legally claim refuge of those boats—who seek that terrible means to asylum will mean that more people attempt to reach the cross—as innocent and vulnerable, why is he supporting UK illegally, no matter what the penalties are—and a Bill that is going to criminalise them and put them in dangerously too. It will do nothing to deter the people prison for up to four years? smugglers or the human traffickers. The Anti-Slavery Commissioner has warned that measures taken to address Antony Higginbotham: Because this Bill tells people a potentially small number of people seeking to abuse that there are safe and legal ways to get to the United the immigration system will have a considerable impact Kingdom, and if they follow those safe and legal ways, on victims of modern slavery. There is a grave danger of then we will provide refuge, but we should not be viewing victims of modern slavery through an immigration encouraging people, indirectly, to take those illegal routes lens and ignoring the trauma and exploitation they have that we know cost lives. suffered as victims. We have tried for years to work with France on this This attitude towards people seeking sanctuary in the issue. We have tried, tried and tried again, and it has not UK, and to immigration more broadly, is not just worked. Anyone who says that our asylum system is not morally reprehensible but economically ignorant too. broken and does not need fixing must not be seeing the Right now, we are facing acute labour crises in key same scenes. They must be oblivious to the thousands economic sectors due to this Government’s ideological of people who have crossed the English channel in andnarrow-mindedapproachtoimmigration:inhospitality; dangerous boats this year alone. They certainly are not in agriculture, with fresh food left to rot in our fields; listening to residents in constituencies like mine, because and in transport, with firms warning of a 70,000 to my residents support a system that works. They support 90,000 shortfall of HGV drivers. We are already starting tougher penalties for those who enter the country illegally. to see empty supermarket shelves as a result, and the The measures in the Bill are tough but rightly so, and crisis will only get worse as we get towards Christmas. they are also simple. The Bill sends a clear message to Haulage firms have called for drivers to be added to the those in genuine need that we have a safe and legal route shortage occupation list, and/or for temporary visas to into the UK—that people do not need to risk their lives be issued to overseas drivers as a temporary solution in dangerous small boats. If people need help we are while we try to train up more HGV drivers and deal here, but for those who try to game the system and with the backlog of HGV tests. The Government’s those who think our immigration rules are there to be response to these common-sense calls from the Road got around because, somehow, the rules do not apply to Haulage Association, Unite and others is a flat no, them, the penalties are tough. A different approach for because they cannot be seen to concede the argument. those who follow the rules and those who do not—I They do not want to accept that, as with my own cannot see how anyone can disagree with that, but relatives from Ireland, immigrants can and do make a somehow, they do. huge contribution to this country. Some Opposition Members do not seem to have a The Home Secretary should stop posturing, stop problem with the last-minute claims lodged to avoid playing politics with people’s lives, and instead bring deportation, sometimes in the case of serious criminals. forward proposals that would genuinely ensure that we Well, I do have a problem with them, and the new have a firm yes, but also a fair asylum system in this appeals process proposed in the Bill will make a big country. difference to dealing with those claims. It will allow us to throw out the spurious and deal only with those that 2.56 pm are genuine. Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): It is a pleasure It is right, fair and proper that the Home Office plan to follow the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry ahead and consider whether there is a way to look at McCarthy). claims in a safe third country. That would allow us to During the 2019 general election, I said on many protect our borders proactively, moving us to a model occasions that I supported a firm but fair immigration under which we gave people safe haven while considering system—one that prioritises the needs of our economy their application, then brought them to the shelter of and provides robust border security to keep us safe, but the UK. However, there are two sides to the coin. If also, yes, welcomes those who need the shelter of the illegal entry is one side, the facilitators are the other. United Kingdom. We should always be proud of the Through the Bill, we will empower our Border Force refuge that we provide to those who need it. In conflict officers directly to intervene in those people-smuggling after conflict and crisis after crisis, we have stood up gangs—gangs that try to find new ways to circumvent and promised protection to those whose lives are at risk. the measures that we design here in the House to That shows our compassion as a country. protect our country and protect our citizens. But we cannot ignore what is obvious: that our Firm but fair rules; secure but compassionate borders; current asylum system is broken. We have all watched a system that ensures that the people of this country are the frustrating scenes in the English channel—small safe; a system under which we know who is coming to boats dangerously full of people who have been sold a the UK and how they are getting here; and our offer of false promise by criminal gangs. Every time those help and support for those who need them—that is criminal gangs fill up those boats, they put at risk the what my constituents want, and that is what the Bill delivers. lives of innocent and vulnerable people. They also put 3.1 pm at risk the lives of the men and women of our Border Force and of the RNLI who go out to avoid casualties Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): Eid Mubarak at sea. to my constituents and all who are celebrating. 849 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 850

There are lots of things I could say about the UK described being woken in the morning to be told that Government’s Nationality and Borders Bill and their their substantive interview would happen imminently, plans for immigration. I have been overwhelmed by the with no time to prepare. number of constituents who have been in touch to ask Then, of course, we have covid. Public Health England, me to oppose the Bill, and I can assure them that I share the independent chief inspector of borders and immigration their horror of the legislation. Criminalising those who and Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons all raised seek sanctuary and who have survived experiences so concerns about the impact of communal living on the disturbing and so distressing that they struggle to describe spread of covid-19. The Home Office chose to ignore them is absolutely abhorrent. that. A former resident of Napier barracks, describing I agree with Members who have said that the asylum the covid outbreak, said that system is broken, but the Bill is certainly not how I “all you could hear was people coughing…it was like an apocalypse”. would go about fixing it. The Home Secretary’s plans to Communal living in the camp made it impossible to offshore reception centres, echoing Australia’s failed prevent the outbreak of a highly infectious airborne and expensive experiment, are dehumanising and brutal— virus, with shared sleeping, washing and eating space such places are not for people who have suffered trauma. and a lack of soap and sanitiser. At Penally, it was I commend to colleagues Behrouz Boochani’s auto- reported that the isolation room had no toilet and biographical account of the Manus Island detention washing facility of its own. centre, “No Friend but the Mountains”. If the Home I note with interest that the ICIBI report will be out Secretary has read the book, it is certainly not meant to on Thursday. Will there be a statement in the House on be taken as a “how to” guide. the findings of the independent chief inspector of borders Seeking asylum is not a crime, but this Tory Government and immigration? If not, I would expect some kind of are attempting to make it so. The all-party parliamentary answer on that in the Minister’s summing up. Such group on immigration detention, which I chair, has facilities are highly inappropriate and they must all be been taking evidence from medical and legal experts, as closed, not just expanded, as the Home Secretary suggested. well as from people who have stayed in the Home If they are offshore and people are unable to access Office’s quasi-detention facilities at Napier barracks them, we can bet that there will be even less scrutiny of and Penally camp. What we have heard so far is incredibly the conditions. worrying. People moved to facilities were taken from None of this cruelty is happening by accident. Criminalise their accommodation without notice or explanation to those who escape war and brutal regimes—people who a place surrounded by gates, fences and barbed wire. can hardly go to the Government who killed their They were not told how long they would be there. They family to make a polite request for travel documents. described to the APPG how right-wing protesters came Make the experience as awful as possible for those who to demonstrate outside, and how people came to stare make it here, despite all the odds. Deny adequate medical through the fences at them as if they were animals in a and legal support, so that it is harder for asylum seekers zoo. Even though they could move around the local to make their case. Put people in camps to keep them area, they were made to feel completely unsafe in doing so. from making friends, building support networks and putting down roots. Give them a pittance to live on, so Ministers may claim that they are screening for that they cannot survive. My constituents and I do not vulnerability, but the evidence is clear and the tools that support this anti-refugee Bill. We want none of this the Home Office is using to identify both physical and brutal hostile environment. All refugees are human mental vulnerabilities during initial screening are woefully beings, who deserve safety and dignity like any one of inadequate. Health experts have described the impact of us, and no one is illegal. Penally and Napier on those who were forced to live there.This is already,remember,a very fragile population— 3.6 pm people who have been exploited, trafficked, tortured, seen their families killed or raped, or been subject to Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance) [V]: Overall, sexual violence themselves. this is a horrible and unnecessary Bill. The UK does not have a problem with asylum seekers, nor indeed A third of residents at Napier said they felt suicidal—a immigration. Asylum seekers have been unjustly and much higher ideation rate than would be expected among cruelly demonised. Some specific examples regarding asylum seekers living in the community. People suffered asylum seekers are being magnified and generalised in from lack of sleep and shared dorms with people order to rationalise bad law. Conflict, gross human experiencing night terrors and physical pain caused by rights abuses and persecution will result in more and the torture they had been through. There was even the more movements of people over the course of the mundane, everyday pain caused by lack of basic health century. Indeed, climate change will likely be a major and dental care. In addition, there was an outbreak of driver of that conflict. The UK must acknowledge both scabies owing to the lack of laundry facilities to wash its capacity to assist and indeed the requirements of clothes and bedding, and residents suffered the indignity basic humanity, and therefore ensure that its laws are of having to share the cream to treat it among themselves. consistent with those realities. Legal experts have described the difficulties that those On a per capita basis, the UK accepts fewer asylum accommodated in such camps experience in gaining seekers than most other European jurisdictions, and access to legal advice, or even knowing their right to faces less pressure due to its geographically peripheral access a lawyer in the first place. There are issues with position in relation to some of the migrant routes. The the capacity of local immigration lawyers to take on UK is not being invaded or overrun. Asylum seekers cases and being able to work with a lawyer when there and, indeed, immigrants are not overwhelming public are no private spaces in which to discuss the case, which services or stealing jobs. Where pressures exist on services, is a breach of people’s article 8 rights. Some have that reflects both poor planning and under-investment. 851 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 852

[Stephen Farry] At present, this may well be framed as a problem solely for those who identify as Irish, but at some stage Where pockets of unemployment or under-employment in the future there may well be a united Ireland. In those exist, that reflects poor investment in skills and job circumstances, there will also be an expectation that creation initiatives. those who wish solely to identify as British from birth should The current high bar to acceptance of asylum claims also be accommodated, so this issue works both ways. is expected to be even higher as a result of the Bill, and There is potentially a legislative way forward in the those who try to assist run the risk of being criminalised. 2020 report completed by the barrister Alison Harvey The notion of offshoring asylum seekers is particularly on behalf of the joint committee of the Northern repugnant. We need a system based on humanitarian Ireland Human Rights Commission and the Irish Human values and objective consideration of cases. Crucial to Rights and Equality Commission. I urge the Government that are safe and legal routes to sanctuary in the UK. to give strong consideration to those recommendations. I will flag some other concerns on the Bill. The first relates to the clause on electronic travel authorisation. 3.12 pm The EU settlement scheme covers those European economic Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab) [V]: The area citizens who are normally resident in the UK, but 1951 UN refugee convention, which was signed by a it does not apply to EU citizens who live in the Republic Labour Government, was born out of the aftermath of of Ireland, and they are also not covered by the common the horrors of the second world war, when countries travel area. There is a danger that that could have an came together to ensure that there would be international impact on thousands of people who live on the island of protection for those who suffer persecution. That is an Ireland and cross the border, sometimes daily. incredibly important principle, and one which the Although the Government have said that there will Government threaten to undermine with this Bill. be no immigration controls at the border on the island By treating refugees differently, depending on how of Ireland, there could still be a bureaucratic complication they arrive in the UK and the point at which they for those EU nationals to comply with any requirements present themselves to authorities, the Bill creates a around an ETA, and legal uncertainty for those entering two-tier system. As the Immigration Law Practitioners Northern Ireland without one. I would be grateful for Association has pointed out, clarification on how these particular circumstances will “the introduction of differential treatment of refugees depending be taken into account. on how they came to the UK or made their claim cuts against the principles motivating the 1951 UN refugee convention.” The nationality parts of the Bill have received much The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees less attention, and I want to focus on the Government’s has pointed out that failure properly to reflect in domestic law the citizenship and identity aspects of the Good Friday agreement, “the right to seek asylum is universal and does not depend on the mode of arrival; asylum-seekers are often forced to arrive namely that it is the birthright of all the people of unauthorised.” Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted And the Refugee Council has called this Bill as Irish or British, or both, as they choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish “a cruel, unjust bill unfairly punishing people who’ve fled war, persecution and terror for the way they reach the UK.” citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of If this Bill passes into law, the Government will be Northern Ireland. turning their back on some of the most vulnerable people on Earth. This is a source of national shame. It Like many people, I am comfortable with both a is shameful, too, that the UK Government are acting in British and an Irish identity. However, there is a core of a way that risks breaching international lawand undermines people born in Northern Ireland, as a full part of the global efforts to support victims of war and persecution. United Kingdom, who wish only to identify as Irish and I urge Members on both sides of the House to reflect, be accepted as Irish. The Good Friday agreement clearly too, on what this means for our reputation and our provides for this situation. However, this reality is not standing in the world. yet reflected in UK domestic law, where people are The Bill fails to deal with the serious and organised legally treated as British by default at birth. crime groups that are profiteering from human trafficking That problem was crystallised in the Emma DeSouza and modern slavery. Indeed, it removes a number of key case. The Committee on the Administration of Justice protections for victims of these crimes. reported: Amnesty International and Migrant Voice have pointed “The Home Office response to the DeSouza case included out that: taking the position that it did not have to comply with the GFA as “Far from truly tackling the scourge of human exploitation, it is not domestically enforceable; arguing a reduction of the including by organised crime, the bill will further empower and scope of the birthright provisions to one of ‘national identity’ in enable abusers by rendering the women, men and children on the abstract (overlooking the ‘accept as’ duty)”. whom they prey ever more vulnerable to that predation. At the very least, the UK and Irish Governments need The introduction of slavery or trafficking information to meet to discuss these differences and what acceptance notices, which could be served on people making an of choice should mean in practice. Indeed, that was a asylum claim or a human rights claim, would require recommendation of the recent report of the Northern individuals to provide the Secretary of State and any Ireland Affairs Committee. Renunciation is cited as one other competent authority specified in the notice with possible solution, and it may well be for some, but at relevant status information before a specified time. This present the process requires someone to declare that totally misses the point that the deeply traumatic nature they start as British, which is at odds with the wording of modern slavery cases, especially for people abused by of the Good Friday agreement. sex trafficking gangs, can mean that many victims delay 853 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 854 reporting the crime. They may also be victims of coercion, wanted to participate fully in life in the UK as a British warned not to disclose the extent of their abuse and citizen, to work hard, to run a business, to pay his taxes fearful of what will happen if they do. Given that recent and to raise a family. It is not fair on all those who have reports show that four out of five rejected trafficking followed the proper rules to migrate to this country that claims are overturned on appeal, this particular aspect illegal immigrants and bogus asylum claimants are treated of the Bill is extremely concerning. in the same way. The Government’s “New Plan for Immigration” paper I have been struck by the contributions of Labour says that Members giving all sorts of spurious reasons why they “we will strengthen the safe and legal ways in which people can will oppose the Bill. What they really mean is that they enter the UK…we want to ensure that refugees who enter through want to prop the door open and let unlimited people safe and legal routes can reunite with close family members.” come in. I welcome the measures in the Bill and I will be However, Refugee Action is among those who have enthusiastically supporting the Government tonight. expressed frustration that there are no new commitments in the Bill on refugee settlement or family reunion. It has pointed out that there is nothing in it committing to 3.20 pm refugee settlement schemes, and that it also fails to Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab): I am grateful to reform rules on family reunion or to provide new routes you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for calling me in this for unaccompanied children to reach safety in the UK. important debate. Like others, I would like to wish Eid Several of my constituents have written to me in Mubarak to the Muslim communities in Newport West recent days with their wide-ranging concerns about the and across the UK. Bill. They express concerns about the creation of a I have also heard from a number of my constituents two-tier system, the need for safe and legal routes to in Newport West about the Bill and their concerns with enable refugees fleeing war and persecution to arrive it. Like me, they think the Bill is fundamentally flawed, without making dangerous journeys that put their lives and I shall be opposing it. Its content means that this at risk, and the fundamental concern that we should Conservative Government will turn their backs on some receive vulnerable people fairly and treat them decently. of the most vulnerable people in our communities, and In essence, my constituents are calling for the UK to it risks breaching international law. The reasoned play its part in providing humanitarian support to those amendment in the name of my right hon. and learned escaping the most dangerous of circumstances. As Refugee Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Action says, everyone who has had to flee their home Starmer), the Leader of the Opposition, rightly calls deserves the chance to live again. I call on Members out the Government for their failures and calls for a from across the House to vote to protect vulnerable more humane and decent asylum system, and it has my people fleeing violence and persecution. full support. In 2021, we need to demonstrate our compassion and 3.16 pm our global leadership. That means getting things right. Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con): The subject of This Government’s approach is weak on taking action immigration is of great importance to my constituents against criminal gangs, but brutal when it comes to in Great Grimsby. They have voted time and time again orphaned children from war zones. Surely this is a case for Government to take control of who enters our of misplaced priorities. The Bill also risks criminalising country. I am pleased that the Government are finally the RNLI for saving people at sea. Had the Bill been in bringing forward this Bill to do just that. Let me say place when Sir Nicholas Winton was rescuing hundreds first, Madam Deputy Speaker,that control of immigration of children from the holocaust on the Kindertransport, does not mean stopping people coming here. It means it would have risked him being criminalised for his that, as a country, we decide on the means by which life-saving actions. people enter. My constituents understand that from Rather than offering genuine proposals to fix the time to time we need to provide help to genuine refugees broken asylum system, for which Conservatives have fleeing from war zones or from natural disasters. Equally, been responsible for over 11 years, this dangerous Bill we have a tradition of providing asylum to people will make a damaging and indefensible situation even whose Governments are not as generous or as freedom- worse. It seeks to allow the Government to deliver on loving as our own. We as a country do that willingly and plans to process people’s cases in so-called third countries. with generosity. In the lead-up to the Bill, Conservative party briefers What the people of Grimsby do not accept is people have told the media that this could include taking travelling through multiple free, safe European countries people to west Africa or oil rigs to have their cases then attempting illegal entry to the UK and claiming heard. Those plans are immoral, wildly impractical and asylum on entry. This is not asylum seeking. This is simply not fit for purpose. economic migration. From the discussions I have had with local people in Madam Deputy Speaker, I am not against economic Newport West and the many other emails I have received, migration. How could I be with the surname Nici? My I know they want to see more done to tackle the late father came from Italy in the 1960s, long before the appalling crime of people smuggling—as do I. However, EU existed or we joined the EEC, but he had a job in key to that is having a workable deal in place with the UK before he arrived and then when he came here France to stop the gangs operating so frequently there he worked here with a work permit. He found this exploiting desperate people for money. Yet the Bill country welcoming. He found that Grimsby was a great contains nothing that will help to address those vital place to live and so applied for citizenship and became a failings. It would be helpful to hear what discussions British citizen. In the process, he had to give up his Ministers have had with the French Government on Italian citizenship, but he did it willingly because he that matter. 855 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 856

[Ruth Jones] Yet this Bill contains no measures to address these delays or provide justice for those who have been waiting Newport West has a strong moral compass and our for it for so long. city has welcomed refugees and asylum seekers with The Home Secretary has also told the House that open arms, and with the respect and decency they these proposals deserve. Because Newport is a resettlement centre for “will increase the fairness of our system.”—[Official Report, refugees and asylum seekers, I have had the privilege of 19 July 2021; Vol. 699, c. 705.] meeting just some of those awaiting decisions on their Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the applications, courtesy of the British Red Cross, in Newport Bill risks creating a deeply discriminatory two-tier system West. I met a doctor from Nigeria desperate to work in based on how people have reached the UK. Those who his specialism of cardiology, but prevented by Home come via a third-party country or who lack documents Office rules. I met a Syrian woman who showed me will be unfairly penalised regarding the strength of their photos of her beautiful home, now bombed to smithereens. claim. The UNHCR has condemned these plans as a I have met others fleeing religious persecution and “recipe for human suffering”, and it is absolutely right. seeking sanctuary here in the UK. These are not scroungers The Bill will make life infinitely harder for those who or spongers. They have skills and abilities to bring to us, have been forced to flee their homes. Instead of providing and we can benefit as a society by them living and refugees with the support and kindness they so desperately working with us here. need, the Government seem intent on treating them like This Tory Government have refused to reopen many criminals. Victims of human trafficking will lose vital safe routes with little explanation and certainly zero protections and struggle to access much-needed support. humanity. The new UK resettlement scheme, in its first Meanwhile, young people and children will be forced month in 2021, resettled just 25 refugees—25. The into the hands of despicable people traffickers because Government also closed the Dubs scheme, having settled of the Government’s failure to establish safe and legal just a fraction of the 3,000 children initially envisaged. alternative routes. That is not my idea of global Britain. 3.27 pm It is very hot in Newport West and across the British Isles today, and it feels like the temperature has been Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con): Should raised through the empty promises and hot air radiating nations prevent anyone from crossing their borders? We from the ministerial suite of offices on Marsham Street are all citizens of the world, so should we all have the and in No. 10. Those most in need of peace and safety right to live and work where we choose? All Governments deserve better. The people of Newport West deserve have a responsibility to their citizens to keep their better, and I will do my best to fight for it. country safe, and ensure economic and social stability for their citizens. There would be mass immigration 3.24 pm without border control, which would put enormous burdens on infrastructure and public services, inevitably Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab) [V]: I welcome the leading to economic instability and unemployment. These opportunity to speak in a debate that has enormous are the reasons why every single country has its own implications for so many of my constituents. rules about who may travel, work and reside within its July marks the 70th anniversary of the signing of the borders. Every country has the right to protect its refugee convention. Born out of the turmoil and devastation borders and every country has legal migration routes of the second world war, that landmark treaty enshrined via visas or work permits. the rights of those fleeing persecution and conflict. This Every day, thousands of migrants and refugees leave anniversary provided the Government with the perfect their countries in search of refuge, safety and better opportunity to commit themselves to the principle that lives. Refugees are unique in their plight. They have fled the UK should provide sanctuary to those who have their country and are unable or unwilling to return been forced to flee their homes.Instead, we have abandoned because of war, violence or fear of violence, or being the key principles of the convention, retreating even persecuted because of their race, religion, sexuality, further from our long-standing moral commitments. nationality or political opinion. An economic migrant The Home Secretary claims that this Bill will fix a is different from a refugee, being someone who leaves “broken system”, but it was this Government who his or her country of origin for education or for financial broke the system in the first place, and nothing in this or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to Bill will clear up the mess they have made. Last year, the move to find a better life—they do not flee war-torn number of people waiting more than a year for the countries or move because of past persecution—and initial decision on their asylum claim was 33,000—a there are legal routes for economic migrants to come tenfold increase since 2010. A staggering 250 people here. Refugees and migrants are not the same, even have been waiting for more than five years, including though many people, especially Opposition Members, 55 children. The impact on those caught up in this argue that all migrants should be treated as if they were shocking backlog, including many of my constituents, refugees on the basis that they are all seeking a better, is devastating. Their lives are left in limbo: they unable more secure life. The United Kingdom has a proud to work and they are plagued every day by the uncertainty record of helping those fleeing persecution, oppression of whether they will be granted leave to remain in the or tyranny from around the world, alongside providing country they call home. Enver Solomon, the CEO of around £10 billion a year to support people through our the Refugee Council, has said: overseas aid. The UK is a global leader in refugee “Leaving vulnerable men, women and children waiting for settlement. Between 2016 and 2019, as a country we years on end for news of their fate…is cruel and unjust. It is an resettled more refugees from outside Europe than any incredibly inefficient, ineffective and unfair way to operate a member state of the EU. In total, across all Government- refugee protection system.” funded resettlement schemes, the UK has resettled more 857 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 858 than 25,000 vulnerable refugees in need of protection create two tiers of refugee. People claiming asylum will over the past six years, with around half being children. be recognised as a group 1 refugee if More than 29,000 family reunion visas have been issued “they have come to the United Kingdom directly from…where in the past five years. their life or freedom was threatened…and…they have presented I welcome this Bill because it seeks to retain a themselves without delay to the authorities.” compassionate approach and combine it with increased Those designated as group 2 refugees will have more firmness, fairness and efficiency. I welcome the ambition limited protections upon grant of status, including being to see an asylum system based on need, so as to better given shorter periods of leave to remain. However, protect and support those who require our help the because many women often do not realise that their most. I welcome the fact that the Government are experiences of gendered violence make them eligible for strengthening the safe and legal routes for refugees and asylum, they do not apply straightaway. This will mean fixing historical anomalies in British nationality law. I that many women will be wrongly placed in group 2 and welcome the Government’s commitment to ensuring therefore liable for detention. that resettlement programmes are responsive to emerging Furthermore, clauses 46 and 47 go against the Home international crises and that persecuted minorities are Office’s own guidance on penalising individuals for represented. Continuing to resettle refugees directly from not disclosing details of their exploitation. Such guidance regions of conflict and instability fulfils our manifesto is in place to recognise that trafficking victims may commitment to support those fleeing persecution. Our take time to disclose what has happened to them. The refugee settlement scheme has protected thousands of move to penalise individuals for not disclosing, will people in the past few years. mean that fewer women are recognised as victims of I welcome the improved support for refugees provided trafficking. That means that they will become liable for for in this Bill to help those vulnerable people build detention or, if already detained, that they will not be their lives in the UK. The enhanced integration package released. and immediate indefinite leave to remain in the UK for refugees who are resettled through our safe and legal In addition, clause 48 raises the threshold for being routes will make it more attractive to use legal means of recognised as a potential victim of trafficking through a resettlement than illegal ones and help deter perilous “reasonable grounds decision” for the national referral crossings. mechanism. It means that a positive decision will now be made when there are “reasonable grounds” to believe It is well known that refugees seeking asylum in the that the individual “is”, rather than “may be”, a victim UK are not penalised for entering illegally. I welcome of slavery or human trafficking. Like clauses 46 and 47, life sentences for people smugglers. By cracking down it also makes it more difficult for women to be recognised on illegal immigration, we can prioritise those in genuine as victims of trafficking, which again means that more need. That will help prevent people making dangerous women will be liable for detention. Overall the Bill and unnecessary journeys to the UK. I particularly signifies the Government’s attitude towards the safety welcome the commitment to tackle modern slavery and and rights of vulnerable women who have fled abuse the increased protections for those found to be victims and violence. It disproportionately affects vulnerable of modern slavery. women, and criminalises them. I reject this hostile For too long, criminal gangs have profited from our environment, and I ask other Members to do the same broken asylum system at the expense of vulnerable by voting against the Bill. people who need protection and the British public who pay for it. The Nationality and Borders Bill will create a fair, but firm system, delivering on our promise to take 3.36 pm full control over our borders. Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab) [V]: It is distressing that the Government are pushing ahead with this deeply 3.32 pm disturbing Bill. A pattern is forming in the Government Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab): Thank you for calling of introducing legislation that does little or nothing to me to speak in this debate today, Madam Deputy solve problems, but actually exacerbates them. That Speaker. I would like to focus my contribution on the kind of right-wing, populist politicking is easy, but it is impact of detention on women. In 2016, the Government dangerous and lacks the competence, depth of thought committed to reduce their use of detention. While the and basic humanity that we have a responsibility to number of women in detention has fallen since then, the show. The Bill creates a two-tier system for refugees, measures in the Bill will likely lead to an increase. based on the route by which they enter the UK, and not Research by Women for Refugee Women shows that on need. In doing so, the Home Secretary risks criminalising many of those detained in immigration centres are the majority of refugees for failing to live up to an survivors of torture, rape or trafficking, and locking impossible standard. It does nothing to address the them up severely impacts their mental health. In March need to create safe and direct routes into the country for this year, there were just 25 women detained in the UK. asylum seekers, and it essentially criminalises refugees These are historically low numbers, yet the Home for escaping war and persecution through the only Office is to open a new detention centre for women at route available to them. It does nothing to stop the risk the Hassockfield site in County Durham in the north- of refugees falling into criminal hands and using unsafe east later this year. If the Home Office is committed routes. tousb detention reduction, why the increase in detention I am appalled by the suggestion that asylum seekers capacity? could be removed to any third-party country in which Then we dig into the detail of this Bill, and it becomes they may have spent a period of time, and which the clear that measures are being put in place that will Government deem to be safe. That would renege on our increase women’s detention. For example, clause 10 international obligations, put excessive strain on countries 859 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 860

[Beth Winter] There is a problem with the asylum system, but it is the colossal backlog. Somehow, even though the number that already accept a disproportionate number of refugees, of people claiming asylum here has dropped by 58% in and risk deporting refugees to countries where they will the past couple of decades and by 21% in the past two not be safely housed. The most likely outcome of that years, the number of people languishing in the asylum policy is that vulnerable asylum seekers will be trapped system has increased by 28%. That is proof that we are in the system for much longer, without permanent overwhelmed not with asylum seekers, but by the housing or the right to work. I fear the Bill will pave the incompetence of the Home Office, which is what the way for more facilities such as Penally barracks in Bill ought to be tackling. It pretends there is a problem Wales, and Napier barracks in Kent. When Penally that there isn’t, and it pretends that there isn’t a problem barracks was closed in March, I was relieved. I took it that there is. as an understanding that that kind of accommodation Secondly, let us be quite honest about the whole issue was unsuitable. Of course, the UK Government’s of safer routes. So many comments have been made by understanding of what is suitable is very different from Members on both sides of the House about how we mine, and that of the Welsh Government. need safer routes to prevent people from making dangerous Even more worryingly, the Bill seems to open the crossings. There is such a need, but unless the Government door to offshore processing sectors housed in far-flung allow people to apply for asylum from outside the and remote parts of the world. The suggestion is as United Kingdom, the United Kingdom will be complicit baffling as it is inhumane. How does the Bill promote in and responsible for people making dangerous crossings. improved dispersal and community integration for refugees? That is the safer route, but the Bill sets out nothing of Campaigners have long been calling for a well-funded the sort. dispersal system that will safely house refugees throughout Creating two categories of asylum seekers—which I the country. Delivering the best outcomes for refugees am sure the Government are doing because it winds up does not seem to be a priority for the Government, and namby-pamby liberals and therefore somehow pleases the Bill does nothing to address the problem of backlogs them and their base—is probably illegal under international in the system, and delays in the processing of those law. It is morally repugnant and wicked, and surely it is seeking asylum. The backlog is now 10 times what it utterly counterproductive. Maybe that is the argument was 10 years ago, but who has been in power all that that might land with Ministers: that it will make time? What does the Bill do to improve safeguards for things worse. unaccompanied children with bilateral agreements with Just yesterday, I was talking to one of the Home other countries? What does it do to address the problem Office’s own asylum accommodation providers. I will of modern slavery? This Government’s decisions are not name it, because that would not be fair, but it told driven not by lack of capacity or funding, but by their me that the two-tier system will make no difference total lack of compassion. whatever to the number of people who come here via These proposals are deeply cruel. My beliefs are the irregular route; it will simply lead to refugees coming centred around fairness, justice and compassion, but it here, not claiming asylum and slipping into the informal is clear that in introducing such a Bill, the Government economy.In other words, the Government are presenting do not share those values. The Bill is hardly a suitable to the House and the people a charter for a massive 70th birthday present for the refugees convention to increase in exploitation, modern-day slavery, a wicked which the UK was a proud signatory after the second use of people through trafficking and all the awful world war. Thank goodness that those who helped so things that come about when people go below the radar. many people to escape from the horrors of the second That seems an obvious consequence. the Government’s world war did not take this Government’s view on own suppliers know it, and I assume that the Government refugees and people seeking asylum in the UK. I urge know it themselves, but they somehow think that they the Government to shelve the Bill and return to the can get some useful clickbait by separating desperate House with a proposal that reforms the asylum system people into the deserving and the undeserving. That is and respects the basic rights of refugees to live a dignified, shocking. It undermines what it is to be British, and the safe and contented life in the UK, as is their wish. Government should be ashamed of themselves for proposing it. Even if they have no shame, surely they 3.40 pm have some practical understanding of the consequences of this foolish procedure: that it will force people Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD) [V]: underground into exploitation, modern slavery and The Bill feels like a series of poor choices made on the appalling things like that. basis of ignorance of the evidence, or maybe even It is not just on those issues that the Government contempt for it. have shown contempt for the evidence, or let us say an Let us start with the Bill’s major premise, which is accidental ignorance of it. There is a huge impact on that we are overwhelmed with asylum seekers. That is the world of work. In my constituency and right across not true. The United Kingdom had 35,000 or so asylum Cumbria, the hospitality and tourism industry is by far seekers last year; Germany had 120,000; France had our biggest employer. If I were to tell the House that, in 96,000. By the number of people we take in and consider the Lake district, 80% of the entire working age population for asylum each year, we are behind 16 members of the already work in hospitality and tourism, Members will European Union, so we are low or mid-table. We are an be able to see that there is no huge, sufficient reservoir island, so there is an extent to which we are protected; of the additional people we need to work in our hospitality that has some horrific consequences as well, but the and tourism industry. Eighty per cent. of the working notion that we are overwhelmed with asylum seekers is age population already work in hospitality and tourism. bogus nonsense. It is not true, yet it is the premise of We are Britain’s second biggest destination, behind only much of the Bill. London. Do the maths: we need overseas labour. 861 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 862

This year, and in the past few days especially, people I money. We have to have a decision-making system that have spoken to right across my community,from Grasmere is not only fair, but makes clear decisions and does not to Grange, from Sedbergh to Staveley, have been telling lead to endless legal processes of a kind that many of me that they have fought and struggled, spent their life my constituents are certainly frustrated by. It is also savings and gone into debt to survive covid. They have right that we have tougher measures to limit visas for been grateful for the Government support that has those third countries that are not co-operating with us. helped them to just about do that. Having survived If other countries do not want to help us and are not covid, guess what? Loads of them are closing now. taking back their nationals who are being deported—they Why? Because of the Government’s barmy, impractical, are not taking back their own citizens from this country—we stupid visa rules. have to be more symmetrical about things and look Home Secretary, why did you do all this? Why did the again at the visa rules we have for those countries. Government make provisions to support hospitality I am proud to support this legislation, which ends a and tourism in the past 16 to 17 months if they were broken system, reduces the chance of people having only going to kill them off by stupid visa rules at the their lives put at risk and ends some basic unfairnesses end? The simple fact is that, if an Italian restaurant or a in the system that have gone on for far too long. It is a gastropub in the Lake district sources half its staff from Bill that I am very proud to support. overseas and half from the local area, if it cannot get Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins): I call the half from overseas and the business therefore closes, Helen Hayes. as dozens have done, the half who are local will lose their jobs too. So I will use the last few seconds to ask 3.49 pm the Government to do something sensible— I and many Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab): It Conservative Back Benchers think this should happen—and is a great pleasure to see you in the Chair, Madam have a youth mobility visa with the countries that are Deputy Speaker. close to us in Europe so that we can at least provide a source of labour to protect excellent businesses from I rise to speak against this Bill. In the face of an going under because of stupid Government policies. unprecedented global refugee crisis in which 82.4 million people have been forced to flee their homes, what is the response of this Tory Government? It is to close down 3.46 pm the dedicated Department whose responsibility it was Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con) [V]: The reason we to provide help and assistance to people in desperate need to take action through this Bill today is not, as the need across the world, giving hope, creating safer, more hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim secure environments and reducing the need to flee their Farron) said, because the country is overwhelmed, but homes. It is to slash the funding for international aid, because the system is both broken and unfair. It is with a devastating impact on the programmes that obvious it is broken to everyone who sees on TV every support the world’s poorest communities so that they summer large numbers of people risking their lives as do not become displaced, demonstrating that the UK is they are trafficked from France, a safe country, to the no longer leading by example and reducing our authority UK. The system is broken because it is leading to to ask other countries to step up their contributions. people profiting from putting others’ lives at risk and ItistoclosedowntheDubsschemeforfamilyreunification, to people putting to sea in dangerous vessels. It is unfair having accepted just a fraction of the children that the to those who have played by the rules. They have often scheme was designed to resettle in the UK. It is to jumped through a lot of hoops, paid a lot of money and withdrawfrom agreements with our European neighbours, done everything right, and then they see other people with no replacement treaties and therefore no basis for pushing to the front of the queue as economic migrants, agreeinghowtoshareresponsibilityforsupportingdesperate despite not following all the rules. Ultimately, we have people seeking sanctuary and the opportunity to rebuild to insist on a system that is rule-based and set our own their lives in Europe. It is to do everything possible to rules on who comes to this country. If we are to do that, make desperate people arriving in the UK, many of we have to crack down hard on illegal migration and whom are traumatised, feel as unwelcome and unwanted those who profit from it. as possible, housing them in illegal conditions in Napier Therefore, I welcome the measures in the Bill. I and Penally barracks, depriving them of sleep and dignity welcome the extra resources for Border Force to police and exposing them to coronavirus infection. channel crossings. I particularly welcome the extra life It is to allow the asylum system, during more than a sentences for people traffickers—it is amazing that that decade in power,to become broken, inefficient, inaccurate is not the case already. It is right to bring those in for and inhumane. It is to close down safe and legal routes people who are profiting from others’ misery and from to seek asylum in the UK wherever possible, funnelling others being put in extreme danger as they cross the desperate people into the most dangerous routes—the channel. It is right to bring in those tougher penalties peril of the English channel—because they feel there is and in the legislation to increase the penalties for those no other way. It is to cut the funding to support English who return after being the subject of a deportation language training and voluntary sector organisations order. Those who break the rules in that way again that can help refugees to settle in our communities, should clearly be the subject of stiffer penalties. rebuild their lives and actively participate in our economy. I also welcome, as many of my constituents will, the And it is to bring forward legislation today that risks measures to reduce the vexatious claims that see people criminalising the Royal National Lifeboat Institution potentially taking legal action, even though on the steps for saving lives at sea. of a plane, with the endless appeals and poorly merited This is the Conservative party’s global Britain. This cases that people use to clog up the system, slow things divisive, deeply flawed Bill sits in stark contrast to the down and waste lots of people’s time and taxpayers’ response of local communities across the country to 863 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 864

[Helen Hayes] 3.55 pm refugees arriving in their midst. Time and again, when James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): Since I was faced with traumatised individuals who have been through elected to Parliament, one of the issues that I have been experiences so horrific and distressing that most of us left in no doubt about whatsoever by many of my can barely imagine them, we see the deep compassion of constituents is that the UK must take back control of our communities who want to help. We see this in the its borders and deal with the tide of illegal immigration. numerous community sponsorship groups springing up We have all seen the sad and appalling scenes—images across the UK, more than 150 of them—communities of asylum seekers making the perilous journey across coming together to raise funds, provide housing and the channel in small boats, on dangerous tides. Frankly, support to welcome a refugee family to their area. I am it is suicide, and it needs to stop, for all the reasons that hugely proud of the work of Herne Hill Welcomes have been debated today. The UK has shown itself over Refugees and Peckham Sponsors Refugees, both of many years to be more than generous and hospitable, which have welcomed refugee families to live in my but there cannot be an indefinite blank cheque for those constituency.Community sponsorship works. The families who come here illegally. who are welcomed in this way have very successful The Bill, as we know, has three main objectives. The outcomes because of the support that they receive. first is to increase the fairness of the system—I emphasise the phrase “fairness of the system”—to better protect Instead of this divisive Bill, the Government should and support those in need of asylum. The Bill deters be bringing forward plans to provide more support to illegal entry into the United Kingdom, thereby breaking communities and local authorities that want to help the business model of people-smuggling networks and with refugee resettlement and working out how lessons protecting the lives of those they wilfully endanger. The from the approach to community sponsorship can be Bill also enables those with no right to be in the UK to applied to refugee settlement more widely. I see the be removed more easily. The UK’s legal immigration willingness of our communities to help and support system is being reformed by the ending of free movement people fleeing to safety in the UK. In the coffee morning and the introduction of a new points-based immigration I attended last week at a local church in my constituency system. In my view, this Bill is intended to tackle illegal for people living locally in Home Office initial migration and asylum seekers and to control the UK accommodation, I joined volunteers in listening to the borders, and it fulfils the manifesto promise that was harrowing stories about the traumatic events that led to made in 2019. them fleeing for their lives, their hopes and aspirations Let me set out some of the facts. The number of for a new life in the UK, and their frustration and asylum seeker cases is growing. We must assess the despair at being caught up in the Government’s current system and innovate to create a fairer and more dysfunctional asylum system. efficient, modern system. There were 29,500 asylum I want to put on record my concerns about the applications in 2020 alone, and many more continue to inadmissibility rules in the Bill, in particular. Everyone arrive. Contrary to popular perception, the UK will in this House agrees that people traffickers who exploit continue to resettle genuine refugees directly from regions vulnerable people are immoral and should be stopped, of conflict and instability. That has protected over but whether someone has a right to asylum in the UK 25,000 people in the last six years, more than any other must be dependent on what they suffered in their home European country. country and the level of risk they face should they The proposals in the Bill will rightly create a differentiated return, not how they got here. The Bill risks creating a approach. How someone arrives in the UK will impact two-tier system for asylum that will result in some the type of status they are granted in the UK if their people being returned to situations in which their lives asylum claim is successful. Ministers rightly argue that are at risk solely because of their means of travel. that approach will discourage irregular entry into the UK, such as entry across the channel via small boats, as This Bill is a deep embarrassment to the UK. It is we have discussed, which, again, increased significantly being introduced at the same time as the Government in 2020. are cutting funding for projects that help to prevent displacement in the first place. They talk of creating safe and legal routes, without taking a single step actually Stuart C. McDonald: Even on its own terms, that will to create or expand any safe or legal route. The UN not work. There is not a shred of evidence in the world High Commissioner for Refugees has taken the that tinkering with the asylum system discourages people unprecedented step of stating that the Bill will undermine from coming to claim asylum. In fact, parts of the Bill the 1951 refugee convention and international protection are already in force, including the six-month palming system, not only in the UK but globally. The Bill off of complaints, and of course we already have Napier diminishes us in the eyes of the world. and Penally barracks, yet still the number of crossings continues to rise. It just will not work. People will still I call on the Government to withdraw the Bill and come. They will not be put off coming to Britain; they bring forward proposals to deliver a functioning, fair, will just be put off claiming asylum because of how accurate and humane asylum system, to restore our bloody awful this Government are making the system. leadership in the world on the actions that support the poorest people, to broker peace and uphold human James Sunderland: I am pretty clear that the Bill is rights, to support communities who want to resettle designed to do exactly what I said it is designed to do. refugees in their area, and to open safe and legal routes What we have to do is disincentivise the ongoing passage such as the Dubs scheme, so that we can continue in our across the channel. We have to break the cycle. If proud tradition of providing safety and a welcome for asylum seekers know that entering the UK illegally via those fleeing conflict and persecution. that method is not going to result in a successful claim 865 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 866 for asylum, then it may stop. That will also discourage (Tim Farron) said, to tackle a problem that does not those gangs from wilfully imposing their own selfishness exist and fails to tackle a problem that does exist. My on these vulnerable people. hon. Friend also set out in some detail how, if this Bill Let me move on to immigration enforcement. The becomes law, we risk breaching both our international Australian experience has shown what can be done treaty obligations and our obligations under the European legally and fairly with state intervention. The Bill will convention on human rights. provide our border force with additional powers to search unaccompanied containers located in ports for Antony Higginbotham: The hon. and learned Lady the presence of illegal migrants. It will seize and says that this Bill seeks to address a problem that does dispose of vessels intercepted and encountered, not exist, so what about the illegal crossings in the including disposal through donation to charity if English channel, involving small boats and dinghies, appropriate, and it will stop and divert vessels which are overfilled with people who are risking their suspected of carrying illegal migrants to the UK, and, lives? Would she say that that is not a problem that we subject to the agreement of the relevant country, such should try to address? as France, return them to where their sea journey to the UK began. Almost all these migrants have passed Joanna Cherry: When I said that the Bill addresses a through many other countries, which should by rights problem that does not exist, one of the previous speakers have offered them asylum, to get to the UK, which, talked of the country being overrun by immigrants. clearly, people perceive to be a soft touch, and that has That is simply not the case. As I said in an intervention to end. earlier, yes, I do think—to use the hon. Member’s Currently, there are more than 109,000 asylum cases words—“innocent” and “vulnerable” people crossing in the system, 52,000 of which were awaiting an initial the channel with people smugglers is a problem, but I decision at the end of 2020. Around 5,500 have an do not think that the solution to that problem is to asylum appeal outstanding and approximately criminalise those innocent and vulnerable people. That 41,000 cases are subject to removal action. These is one of the central problems of this Bill. In fact, to figures are completely outrageous and point not to any criminalise those innocent and vulnerable people is failure by the Home Office, but to the sheer numbers of potentially in breach of our international legal obligations. people who continue to seek the UK as a soft touch. If this Bill becomes law, we risk breaching the 1951 Doing nothing is no longer an option. I therefore UN refugee convention, the 1961 UN convention on welcome the measures outlined in the Bill, and I am the reduction of statelessness, the UN convention on clear that our current asylum system is unequivocally the law of the sea and the international convention for in need of reform. the safety of life at sea, and we also risk breaching the In conclusion, this is not a moral or an emotional UN convention on the rights of the child. If this Bill judgment, but a pragmatic one. Although I urge the becomes law, we also risk breaching multiple articles of Government to ensure that implementation is as the European convention on human rights, to which humane, kind and hospitable as possible, as we have this Government assure us they are still committed. In seen for many years, it is time for change and I shall be fact, the Lord Chancellor gave evidence to the Joint voting this Bill through tonight. Committee on Human Rights last week and was most anxious to assure us that the Government are still 4.1 pm committed to the European convention on human rights. But there is not much point in being committed to it in Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): May name if they bring legislation to the House that threatens I say what a particular pleasure it is, Madam Deputy to breach it by its terms, as does the introduction of a Speaker, to see you in the Chair today? two-tier system for refugees, which potentially breaches The great English jurist, Lord Bingham, famously the right to be free from discrimination and enjoyment wrote that the rule of law encompassed eight principles. of one’s human rights. Principle 5 states: The changes proposed by the Bill potentially undermine “The law must afford adequate protection of human rights.” the right to life for those at sea. Changes to the application Principle 8 stipulates: and appeals process for asylum seekers and provisions “The State must comply with its obligations in international regarding credibility, and the weight to be given to law”— evidence, risk breaching the right to a fair trial. The as in national law. These principles are widely revered Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I am a and have gained international respect, yet barely a week member,has already raised concerns that decision making goes by when this British Government do not bring to by the Home Office in immigration matters is not this House a Bill that threatens to breach one or both of sufficiently independent or rigorous to ensure that human those principles. This Bill is yet another such example. rights are respected, and the Bill will make that worse. It is also another example of the Government breaking Why would Scotland want to be part of a Union their word, given the U-turn on their previous commitment where decisions like this affecting our international to decrease the use of immigration detention. standing and the perception of the state on the world If anyone was not following the first stage of this stage are forced through by a Government with such debate yesterday, I would commend to them the speech scant regard for human rights and the rule of law? It is of my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, not just this Bill. This Bill is one in a succession of Bills Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald), that have gone through this House recently which many which set out in a very eloquent and measured way the independent commentators have said threaten to breach many problems with this Bill. He described how it our international treaty obligations and also threaten to seeks, as the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale breach our commitment to human rights under the 867 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 868

[Joanna Cherry] to look forward to a future where an independent Scotland will be able to set a better example on refugee European convention. In one case, the Government policy. were quite brazen about it. A Minister stood up in the House and said that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Chris Philp): Will the hon. and “this does break international law” learned Lady give way? but only “in a very specific and limited way.”—[Official Report, 8 September Joanna Cherry: I am sorry, but I am coming to an 2020; Vol. 679, c. 509.] end. Would that it were so with this Bill. This Bill will break Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins): I call international law, not in a specific and limited way, but Alyn Smith. in a number of respects that those with more time have enumerated more eloquently than I can. 4.10 pm This is not the way to do things. It is not right and it is Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP): It is a pleasure to see you not humane. There are millions of displaced people in your place, Madam Deputy Speaker; thanks for the across the world and millions of refugees. The United slight jolt, as I was called a wee bit earlier than I was Kingdom cannot wash our hands of responsibility for expecting. I have also forgotten that I can take my mask them, particularly when at least some of the reasons for off while I am speaking. Eid Mubarak to my constituents their displacement can be laid at our door and at the across Stirling and those elsewhere who are celebrating. door of our foreign policy and our colonial past. The real mischief that the Bill should seek to tackle, but Today’s debate really cuts to matters of deep principle. does not, is that there are insufficient lawful routes for How we treat the world’smost vulnerable seeking sanctuary claiming asylum in the United Kingdom. Yes, resettlement here touches deeply held sincere principles on all sides. I programmes are laudable, but they are not a solution detect throughout this debate a real difference in world for those claiming asylum because resettlement programmes view between the SNP Benches and the Government deal with those already recognised as having a protection Benches. Scotland’s tragedy is that for centuries we need. Those in need of international protection who exported our people. We are a third of the UK landmass, reach the shores of the United Kingdom should not be but we are not full. We need more people, not fewer. criminalised. Scotland’s challenge for decades has been a declining population. European freedom of movement was helping It is time the Home Secretary stopped playing to the us with that and then it was ended. gallery and did the hard work necessary to fulfil the United Kingdom’s moral and legal obligations to refugees Chris Philp: I am extremely grateful to the hon. and asylum seekers. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gentleman for being a little more accommodating than Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East said so the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South eloquently, there is no point in Conservative Members West (Joanna Cherry). He says that Scotland would like waxing lyrical about the rights of persecuted Christians more people. Could I therefore urge the Scottish and the rights of the Uyghurs to be free from Chinese Government and Scottish local authorities to accept atrocities if they threaten to criminalise those sorts of dispersed asylum seekers? The only one of Scotland’s people when they make it to our shores. 32 local authorities to accept dispersed asylum seekers is Glasgow. Scotland accepts only a small handful of Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP): unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, each one of My hon. and learned Friend is making the point very whom carries with them £53,000 a year of funding. If eloquently. So many people who come here through an the Scottish Government are so keen on having more illegal route, through no fault of their own, are often in people, how about they play their part in the way that I a set of circumstances beyond their control. The message have just described? that this Government send is, “You are not welcome.” What would she say to those who have made a life here Alyn Smith: The Minister, I presume inadvertently, and contributed so much, which they could continue to actually makes my point for me. Scotland, under my contribute were it not for this abhorrent policy? party’s philosophy, wants to play a part on the world stage as an independent state of the European Union, Joanna Cherry: What I would say to them, what the playing our part in upholding international law—all of Scottish Government have said to them and what my it, not breaching it on a regular basis—however limited party says to them is that they are very welcome in or specific that way may be. We want to take our fair Scotland, but unfortunately at the moment we do not share of asylum seekers. We want to be that haven. But have control over that aspect of policy. Until we take the financial mechanisms in the UK, as the Minister the steps to ensure that we do have control over that well knows, mitigate our ability to do that. That is my aspect of policy, we are stuck with trying to persuade answer to him. this British Government that their policies are wrong. I thank the hundreds of my constituents who have I fear that the chances of this Government amending been in touch about this Bill—all against it. I thank in the Bill in any meaningful way are absolutely zero, but I particular Forth Valley Welcome, Stirling University know that it matters very much to my constituents, Student Action for Refugees, the church groups across other people in Scotland and many organisations—the the Forth Valley and Start Up Stirling, all of which have Trades Union Congress in Edinburgh passed a motion done great work to welcome refugees. condemning this Bill just in the last few days—that the I will try for consensus, because this issue is too Scottish National party stands against the Bill. As I say, important for Punch and Judy politics. Let us accept I do not think that our stand will work, and I continue that this is a difficult, sensitive issue for any Parliament, 869 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 870 anywhere, to deal with. It is a problem that needs to be “In summary, we take the view that the change in clause 29 addressed; we agree with that. We all want to see the appears to go against the intention of the New Plan for Immigration, dreadful people traffickers properly penalised for their and flies in the face of 25 years judicial scrutiny.” dreadful actions. Scotland, independent, will have Clause 38 expands the criminality of assisting refugees, immigration, nationality and asylum laws, and we will removing the existing limitation that it is only an offence control our borders—the UK is not the only country if the assistance is given for gain, thus effectively extending dealing with these issues—but we will not do it like this. the penalty to any good Samaritan. The Law Society of The Bill is not all bad, but from our perspective it is Scotland says: assuredly more bad than good. We would contend that “We are…concerned about…Ships’ Masters who save asylum the problems of the UK’s complicated, expensive, seekers from drowning as they are obliged to do by…Article 98 of bureaucratic and slow nationality and refugee policies the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea”. are entirely made in London and have been made worse This is a problem to be fixed, and it is a problem that by this Government. can be fixed, but it is a system that has been entirely home-grown. In our view, the idea that the UK needs to The Bill is about issues of deep principle, so let us implement what we believe to be flawed legislation is hear what some of the faith groups think about it. The based on a flawed premise. There is a need for legislation Very Reverend Dr Susan Brown, the convener of the to reform the UK’s awful immigration, nationality and Faith Impact Forum of the Church of Scotland, says: asylum laws—we can agree on that—but this is not it. If “we are urging the Government to think again and listen to the Bill is passed tonight—and I hope it will not be—it asylum seekers and refugees, organisations that support them and will not be passed in Scotland’s name, for Scotland can people in receiving communities working to provide welcome and friendship.” do better on this and many other issues. How about the Catholic Bishops’Conference of Scotland? Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins): Order. I It says: am changing the speaking time limit to seven minutes, “Creating arbitrary divisions based on people’s method of with immediate effect. entry will have profound implications for those who need our support most… many families and individuals have no choice in 4.17 pm the route that they take, and to penalise them on this basis dangerously undermines the principle of asylum.” Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): It In the time allowed, I will focus only on clauses 10, 29 is great to see you in your new place today, Madam and 38, because between them they provide ample Deputy Speaker. grounds for voting against the whole package, although I am not against immigration at all. In fact, I have there are parts to which we might be more amenable. signed the forms for many friends who have decided to make the UK their permanent home after entering it I am particularly grateful to the Law Society of Scotland legally and working here for many years. People who for its forensic examination of the Bill, on which I will want to come to the UK and work legally can do so draw heavily. under the Bill, and I think that that is exactly the Clause 10 introduces a two-tier treatment of refugees position that my constituents want to see. They want to based on means of entry. The Law Society of Scotland see those people entering the UK legally, along with endorses the UNHCR in saying that others who, in desperate straits, are fleeing persecution “to create a discriminatory two-tier asylum system” from abroad. Britain has welcomed such people for centuries. undermines The UK Government has proudly welcomed many “the 1951 Refugee Convention and longstanding global cooperation tens of thousands of people—25,000 under the resettlement on refugee issues.” scheme—who were fleeing persecution: not those who A number of Conservative Members have said that were able to travel halfway across the world, not those France should somehow solve the UK’s problems for it. who were prepared to pay illegal traffickers, but people If the UK is playing a part in undermining global in genuine need, coming from refugee camps that were co-operation, it can hardly expect co-operation back. at the heart of the worst action in recent wars. My constituents are proud to have taken those people in. Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con): Several asylum seeker families have settled in my Is it not the case that the UK worked with the UNHCR constituency recently, and I look forward to their playing in the refugee camps in places such as Jordan? It selects a real part in our local community, as others have done the people who have a good reason and a right to come before them. However, my constituents are fed up— here, rather than just being able to afford to pay a people smuggler. Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con): My hon. Friend is making an excellent point. Will he also reflect on the fact that 25,000 is more than any other European Alyn Smith: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for country has taken in? We should be very proud of what making that point. I hope I have made it clear that there we are doing, and should reinforce the legal routes into are parts of the Bill to which we are more amenable. I this country. do not deny the work that has been done internationally, and I do not deny that this is a problem that needs to be Mr Holden: I could not agree more. What I keep fixed, but I see nothing in the Bill that will make it noticing today is that Opposition Members seem to be better, and I see plenty of things that will make it worse. pushing the illegal routes more than the legal routes. We Clause 29 alters the criteria for well-founded fear of have legal routes into this country, and people can take persecution. Again, the Law Society of Scotland is them. I cannot understand why anyone who actually pretty trenchant: had the interests of people fleeing persecution at heart 871 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 872

[Mr Holden] sorts of things. Spurious allegations were sprayed across honourable members of our armed forces. Today we are would promote people travelling in the backs of lorries seeing exactly the same sorts of lawyers doing exactly or fleeing in boats across the channel, sometimes across the same sorts of things to our immigration and asylum the Mediterranean sea to get to France or Italy, and system. then having to travel all the way here. It is deeply irresponsible of Opposition Members to constantly try Joanna Cherry: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? to promote these routes and to paint Conservative Mr Holden: No, I am not giving way to the hon. and Members as though they are not trying to act in the best learned Lady. I have already given way twice. interests of those across the world who are facing Far too often we see made-up claims. And then, time incredibly difficult circumstances. after time, they come back with different claims put in Although my constituents are happy to welcome different ways. “I was this age at that time, and now I’m economic migrants who come through the legal channels a different age. I was claiming under those conditions, and want to play their part in our country, especially and now I’m claiming under these conditions.” It is those who want to settle and permanently make the UK absolutely mad. their home, they are fed up of seeing illegal migrants I can understand why Opposition Members, who from across the world taking whatever opportunity they supported people like Phil Shiner in the past, are now can. They are particularly fed up of seeing people being defending exactly the same system today. It is absolutely used and abused by illegal gangs, and being forced into crazy, and it was at the time. I am glad the Government this country. That is what really grinds their gears, and I have moved on from those systems under Phil Shiner cannot understand why Opposition Members cannot and we are going to tackle some of the same issues understand my constituents. today. My constituency voted Labour ever since its creation. There are three key elements that are particularly This was an issue that came up time after time on the great to see the Government tackling. One is boat doorstep, not only at the last general election but at the interceptions. It is interesting to see that we are learning previous election. The Labour party has totally lost from international examples. We are learning from the touch with the reality of the communities it has traditionally Australian system, where they have had terrible issues represented. over the years with people coming. They do not have people arriving by boat in Australia any more, because Angela Crawley: The hon. Member makes a number they have dealt with the system. of points that suggest the view of his constituents is the We are also looking at the offshore processing of view of all constituents, and it is simply not the case. In claims, and it is similar to the Australian system. They Glasgow, on Kenmure Street, we saw people protect do not have the same problems that we do today. They individuals from being deported by the Home Office, do not see people dying in their channel any more—the and in many instances the message has been loud and channel between Australia and Indonesia and Papua clear that we welcome refugees in Glasgow. The message New Guinea. the hon. Member sends is not only toxic; it is not Opposition Members seem to think that this is a representative of all constituents across the UK. price worth paying. I do not think it is. The Government, more than any other Government in Europe, are doing Mr Holden: My constituents are very happy to welcome the right thing in supporting legal routes from refugee genuine refugees to the UK. We are taking them now, camps. That is exactly what we need to see here. unlike many constituencies in Scotland where they are not taking asylum seekers, as was pointed out by the Let me turn to immigration offences and enforcement. Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, People are also fed up of seeing those who have come to my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris the UK and been deported coming back again, and it is Philp). It is quite astonishing really. right that we are enhancing the sentences for such people—not only when they are initially deported, but My constituents are very happy to take genuine refugees, if they come back again, when the sentences need to be but they do not want to see an open-door policy, where tougher still. How can Opposition Members not support anybody can just come into the UK and we cannot those sensible provisions on illegal migrants who have remove them if they have come here illegally, overstayed been deported? Surely constituents, whether they are in their visa or committed a criminal act while they are Consett or in Glasgow, support those sensible measures. here, when they should be deported. They want a sensible immigration system whereby people If Opposition Members are really interested in ensuring come to the UK based not on their ability to get here, better and safer legal routes for migration, I cannot but on their need. That is what Conservative Members understand why they are not arguing for that. Why are put forward every time—the need of the people in the they not arguing for safer routes? Why are they instead refugee camps, not the need of the young men who can arguing that we should just allow the boats to continue? just make their way here. It seems crazy to me. Totally mad. The Bill, in the broader sense, also tackles modern As I was saying, people are fed up of seeing people slavery. That is a great step in the right direction on coming to the UK and being used and abused by illegal what is a real issue in parts of the country. I remember gangs. They are fed up of seeing them come here speaking to some long-standing police officers in my illegally.They are also fed up of seeing some lawyers—some constituency who had dealt historically with cases of lawyers—milking the system. I remember Opposition trafficked women and the horror that they went through. Members, when I was a special adviser in the Ministry Often, those people disappeared into the system after of Defence, defending Phil Shiner, who was saying that being smuggled here illegally, so the Bill is taking a British soldiers out in Iraq were doing all the wrong sensible step. 873 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 874

We are including a sensible framework to determine vast majority of people crossing the channel are the age of people coming over to this country. We refugees. Instead of locking them up, let us look at their cannot have a system whereby someone can destroy the applications. documentation that proves their age but is then able to claim to be whatever age they wish. Richard Burgon: The hon. Gentleman makes an We are also including a good-faith provision. People important point and brings some reality to this debate. should act in good faith with the Government when This reactionary Bill should be killed off today. they are determining an application. How can the Opposition oppose good faith? It seems like a really Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): Will sensible thing to me. the hon. Gentleman give way? I am delighted to support the Bill on Second Reading. It will deliver exactly what my constituents want—a Richard Burgon: No, I will not give way. I will only fair, balanced immigration system. give way if the hon. Gentleman wants to stand up and say he will vote against this dreadful Bill. Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins): I call The Bill is not a one-off. It is the latest in a long list of Richard Burgon. racist interventions from the Government—a Government who have already deliberately stoked division and hate 4.27 pm over the past decade. From the “go home” vans touring Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab): It is a great working-class communities to the Windrush scandal pleasure to welcome as Deputy Speaker one of my that saw black citizens deported, to the hostile environment former neighbours from Cross Gates in my constituency policy and the attacks on Black Lives Matter, hatred, of Leeds East. It is good to see you in the Speaker’s division and racism are used as weapons of mass distraction Chair. What it is not good to see, however, is this vile to try to shift the blame for Tory policies that hurt the Bill. majority of society.Rather than to blame the Government I have been a Member of Parliament for six years, for the lack of school places and council houses, or the and in that time I have seen some vile legislation—legislation underfunding of our health service, the Government that punches down and attacks the poorest and most want to encourage people to blame their neighbours vulnerable, from the bedroom tax to the slashing and and other people in their community. The good news is, denying of benefits for disabled people, and welfare however, that the working class in all its diversity in this caps that force children into destitution—but this dreadful country is better than that and better than this Government. Bill is up there with the worst of it. Listening to speeches from the Government Benches, I find the Bill stomach churning. I cannot help but they remind me very much of speeches by Donald feel sick reading it, reading the Government’s plans and Trump. I think that, like Donald Trump, the Government’s reading what they want to do to vulnerable people, approach will be thrown into the dustbin of history including children fleeing war, rape and torture. The before too much longer. The policies that this divisive Bill will criminalise people seeking asylum simply because approach seeks to distract from and shift the blame of how they get here. That is not only immoral; it is in from mean that people’s wages have not improved in breach of international law, although that is not all. The over a decade. These are policies that have slashed legislation—this rotten, sick legislation—opens the door key local services and ripped the heart out of to offshore detention centres. What kind of dystopian many communities. society do the Government want to create? They want This Bill comes at a time when millions and millions offshore detention centres where, hidden from public of people have been having a long-overdue debate on view, people seeking asylum can be subjected to the racism in our society. Last week, England footballer mistreatment the Government are already known for, Tyrone Mings rightly called out the Government for without any accountability. stoking the fire, because racism starts from the top. We have seen, of course, Tory MPs make themselves look Mr Goodwill: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that like complete mugs, attacking footballers for being opposed some of the most vulnerable and needy people are from to racism and showing their opposition to racism. The Syria? Would he be surprised to hear that when the Bill that we are looking at today is exactly the type of camp at Sangatte was cleared, of the 750 migrants who legislation that we end up with when we have a Prime came here, only eight were from Syria? No one in Syria Minister who has labelled black people piccaninnies can afford the cost of the people smugglers. with watermelon smiles and Muslim women letter boxes. Conservative MPs can groan and shake Richard Burgon: It appears that there is a twitching of [Interruption.] their heads all they want, but they should save their a conscience one Bench back from the Tory Front outrage for the people who will be criminalised, demonised Bench. If the hon. Gentleman has a conscience on these and abused by this legislation, should it pass. matters, if he cares about the people he purports to care about from Syria or from anywhere else, I would urge The Tories have a low view, as I have said, of working- him to vote against the Bill, because this reactionary class people and hope that they can whip up anti-immigrant Bill should be killed off today. sentiment to distract from their own failures. I do not share that view, and the response we have seen over the Stuart C. McDonald: To bring things a little more last week in this huge national conversation about up to date, if we are looking at the statistics about who racism shows that, while racism starts from the top, is in these boats crossing the channel, the nationalities anti-racism and solidarity start from below.This legislation are Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Eritrean and Sudanese. People is about fear. It is about division. It is about hate. In the from almost all those countries have success rates diverse, multicultural communities across the country when they claim asylum of about 60% or 80%. The that have come together over the last week we have seen 875 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 876

[Richard Burgon] Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that the Bill does still provide a far better country than the one that this Government a route for the most vulnerable, but that it is based on imagine—a country full of the spirit of community, the need, not on a willingness to make a dangerous journey? spirit of unity, the spirit of hope, and I encourage anyone, regardless of their political party, with an ounce Kenny MacAskill: No; I think it is just creating so of humanity in them to reject this Bill today. many obstacles that it will make life extremely difficult for those who are already the most challenged. I make this speech thinking of the asylum seekers I have met in my immigration surgeries at the Bangladesh There are also actions that require to be taken against centre in my constituency, and thinking of the sons and modern slavery—again, I go back to my days as Justice daughters of asylum seekers who go to school at Bankside Secretary—but I do not believe that significantly more Primary in Harehills in my constituency—a school where legislation is required. In fact, what is required is over 50 languages are spoken. I make this speech thinking co-ordination. I remember—we are now going back of them, and this is just a small part of my effort to over seven years—requiring to establish a taskforce speak up for them, because those in power, those in because we realised that in dealing with serious organised government, are not speaking up for them; they are crime, what was needed was the establishment of a sticking the boot into them. They are chasing favourable taskforce to get everybody around the table, from whatever headlines from the disgraceful individuals that run authority was necessary, to determine what worked and newspapers like The Sun that seek to divide the working what would maximise the power and punch of the class, but those views, I am glad to say, are going out of forces of law enforcement. With regard to modern date. Our country is a far better, far more decent place slavery, that was done, but it was not done simply with than this Government imagine. That is why this rotten, those forces in Scotland; it was done with forces from racist, divisive approach is, in the long term, bound to Northern Ireland as well. At that stage—I have no fail. So I urge everyone who is appalled by the idea of doubt that it is still the situation—there was a link and offshore asylum seeker processing centres and everyone co-ordination between paramilitary groups, and it was who is opposed to this to do what is right and vote a paramilitary group based in Scotland that was operating against the Bill. modern slavery in Belfast. So that co-ordination with my then counterpart, Mr Ford, was welcome. Jonathan Gullis: On a point of order, Madam Deputy I also remember bringing together the business Speaker. I seek your advice. The hon. Gentleman has community and the local authority, and speaking to a thrown the slur of racism at the Conservative Benches senior representative from the Scottish business community throughout his speech, yet he was a key leading member who said that when they had turned up at the meeting, of the Labour party that was found to be institutionally they did not realise why they had been called, but when racist at its core due to the antisemitism that took place. they finished the meeting, they realised precisely why they I ask for your ruling on whether that— were there. There is a suggestion that modern slavery is all to do with the sex trade—it is usually puerilely put in Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins): Order. tabloid newspapers or wherever else—but it is not. That is just a point of debate. It is not a point of order. Overwhelmingly, the victims of modern slavery are Moving back to the debate, I call Kenny MacAskill, working in agriculture and other aspects. They are and there will be an immediate time limit of eight minutes. being used and abused. It might suit the titillation of some to suggest that it is the sex trade. That does 4.36 pm happen, tragically, but equally it goes beyond that. That Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba): I would like was why we required co-ordination, not legislation. to start by saying what neither I nor, I believe, anybody Similarly, on those who are coming in and seeking to else expressing opposition to the Bill is opposed to, and feign marriages and whatever else, that is about that is an immigration policy or immigration Acts. co-ordination with registrars and local authorities, not Everybody who is taking part in this debate recognises seeking to grandstand and say,“We’re bringing in fantastic that there requires to be an immigration policy. new laws.” At the end of the day, laws work only if we I remember many years ago, as a young Scottish have the co-ordination, the force and the resources. Justice Secretary, going to visit my counterpart in the That is why we must ensure that the National Crime Republic of Ireland and expressing concern for the Agency, Police Scotland, police services south of the difficulties they were having. They were requiring to border and, indeed, across Northern Ireland, and all make changes, even constitutional changes, because at other organisations—both civil and in the legal process—are one stage anyone who was born in Ireland was guaranteed working. That is what needs to be done, not simply to citizenship, and people were flying in to give birth, to look tough. take advantage of that. I was rather naive about that. Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con): The hon. Ireland has a proud record on how it deals with immigrants Gentleman just mentioned that we need to know about and with those seeking asylum in refugee crises, but it organised crime. Is it not right that in the 21st century it recognised that it had to have an immigration policy. is important for a nation to know who is coming into So, in opposing the Bill, nobody is suggesting unlimited the country, how they are getting here and who is immigration. It has to be dealt with in a co-ordinated crossing to be here? How on earth can we control manner, but equally, this is fundamentally about the organised crime if we have no idea who is entering the manner in which this is being done and, in particular, country? the steps that are being taken against those who are most vulnerable, those who are most requiring aid, Kenny MacAskill: With regard to serious and organised support, sanctuary and whatever else and those who are crime, certainly in Scotland, and I think through the asylum seekers and refugees. NCA, it has already been mapped. We know who it is; 877 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 878 what we require to do is to work against them. With I always remember an old friend of mine, who was a regard to those coming in, that comes back to the prison governor and indeed a penologist, saying that if recently departed Donald Rumsfeld. There are known we want to look at who the most vulnerable and weakest knowns. There are a lot of people that we know are members of a society are, we have only to look at who is active in people-trafficking gangs. There are others that in prison. In America, it is the black population. In we do not. It is about police resource and police intelligence; Britain, it is the ethnic minorities. In Australia, it is the that is how we deal with it, not by compounding the aborigines. In Scotland, it is the poor. Equally, we can hardship upon people who are already suffering. take the corollary to that in this case, and ask who is coming and from what lands. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind): I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for Craig Williams: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? the very informed comments that he is making from a place of experience, having been in government. The Kenny MacAskill: No, not at the moment. hon. Member for North Norfolk (Duncan Baker) answers That tells us where the areas of conflagration are and his own point. The way to deal with the issue is to where the areas of natural disaster are, because people increase the size of the legal resettlement programme. are coming from Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Iran and That undercuts people smuggling. Otherwise, we are Iraq, where there has been war and carnage. That is engaging in a war like the war on drugs—a war against what they are fleeing, and that is why we have a duty to people smuggling that cannot be won. support them.

Kenny MacAskill: I fully agree, and I am grateful to Craig Williams: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? the hon. Member for his eloquent contribution. Opposing the Bill is about seeking to protect values, Kenny MacAskill: No, I have to make some progress. as has been mentioned, as well as opposing actions that, We have to make progress, because it goes against the in terms of where people are to be placed and how they values that, I believe, not only do we hold in Scotland are to be treated, I believe are fundamentally wrong. On but are replicated across Great Britain and Northern each of them, I believe that there are clear failures. Ireland. People have come to this country—the Huguenot Foreign venues seem to be mentioned and trumpeted. French, the Jews fleeing the pogroms, Basque children What we have seen in Australia with the use of Nauru escaping Franco’s atrocities. They have come here, they was frankly shameful. Indeed, Australia appears to be have been welcomed and we are proud of that. It is backtracking from that because of the failures that have something England and Wales are right to be proud of. occurred there. Scotland has its own immigration, and I will deal with There seems to be little planning and few suggestions. that in a minute, but that is something in which those I have recently asked parliamentary questions about who have come to this country and those from south of what jurisdiction would apply and who would be in the border are right to take pride. charge. We do not know. We are just told to believe that In Scotland, we have similarly seen people having to the 1951 convention will be adhered to and all will be flee here. In fact, I say to Members from Northern well. In Scotland, we would say that all will be hunky-dory. Ireland that the first of those fleeing in were probably No, it will not. What the Government are seeking to do those fleeing the north of Ireland in the 1798 rebellion, is to move people to a place away from visibility, where who had to get out after the defeat of the rebellion and they will be treated appallingly. It has been dreadful in the conflagration that took place. Australia, and it would be shameful if this country were to replicate it. Craig Williams: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr Holden: I do not think that is what the UK Kenny MacAskill: No, not at the moment. Government are proposing at all. The hon. Gentleman opposes offshore detention centres. The Opposition That was followed by those who fled Ireland during often oppose onshore detention centres. Where does he the famine and, similar to south of the border, by those think that people who have no proven status, some of fleeing the Jewish pogroms or war. Scotland has benefited whom need to be deported, should be kept? from these people coming: they have made us a better country. As others have said, we are losing population Kenny MacAskill: If people have to be detained we and we require people to come here—not simply retirees have measures for detaining them, but in the main we who wish to go and buy a nice house on the basis of do not have to detain people. I will again digress, with a their pension or the property they have sold, but people story not from my period as Justice Secretary, but from of younger age who are willing and able to come here when I was a defence agent. I once represented a young and work, many of them those are asylum seekers and woman who had been detained as an asylum seeker. refugees. We need to have them coming because Scotland The crime was working in a restaurant in Orkney. She has a need for them. was detained in Her Majesty’s Prison Aberdeen. There Equally, this is about representing our universal values. was no Chinese translator. It was an overwhelmingly Every day I see people lining up here for Prayers, and male prison. She was frightened witless. Those of us why do we do that if it is not because those in this who know Orkney will know that someone cannot get Chamber are supposed to act according to values, whether off the island without boarding either a ferry or a plane. Augustinian or whatever else? Within those values, and There was no way for her to escape, and to lock her up certainly within the Christian faith, the church was when she was no danger was frankly shameful. That viewed as a sanctuary, yet the terms of the Bill remove was more than 25 years ago and things, sadly, are much sanctuary not from a church building, but from this worse now. entire country. It is entirely wrong. It goes against the 879 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 880

[Kenny MacAskill] Gareth Bacon: I agree with my hon. Friend entirely. Having listened to the debate on the monitor in my values of the people not simply of England and Wales, office, I have to say that the tone and content of some of but of Scotland and the United Kingdom as a whole, the speeches from the Opposition underline and reinforce and those Conservative Members who are fuelling racism why they are the Opposition and not the Government. should be ashamed. Analysis has shown that many migrants might actually be economic migrants and not genuine refugees. Without 4.47 pm this Bill, our asylum system is in danger of being Gareth Bacon (Orpington) (Con): This Bill, of course, continually abused, so we must take steps, as my hon. reflects a manifesto commitment from the Conservative Friend has just said, to protect our own borders. Part 2 party at the last election—a manifesto that delivered an of the Bill, which deals with asylum, is understandably overwhelming majority for the Conservative party and vast, so I will focus on some specific points arising from a mandate to do precisely what we are doing today. it. It is remarkable that all claims made by asylum seekers are processed in a homogeneous way and that Since last spring, a great many of my constituents there is absolutely no distinction between those who have been alarmed by a still ever-increasing number of have entered the UK legally or irregularly. Some 62% of migrants making the dangerous channel crossing. They applicants in the 12 months ending September 2019 are troubled by the risk to life, the reprehensible actions entered irregularly. of illegal gangs exploiting vulnerable people and the challenges of protecting our own borders. This Bill It is surely common sense that those who have respected meets all three key concerns of my Orpington constituents our laws and entered our country via legal routes should for reasons that I will set out, so I will be strongly be on a different footing from those who have sought supporting it this evening. Before I begin, however, I more clandestine access. Clause 10 will change things would like to pay tribute to Border Force personnel for by allowing for such differentiation to occur while making all the work they do to save lives and keep our country the distinction that all genuine refugees will continue to safe—thank you to them. be afforded the same protections under international law. This will in turn help to deter people from making This Bill is necessary because conflict and instability dangerous crossings.Clause 26 will make possible removals have displaced hundreds, if not thousands—or, indeed, to a safe third country while an asylum claim is being millions—of people over the past few decades. In 2015 heard, further deterring activities that put lives at risk alone, more than 1 million migrants crossed into Europe. and, in several tragic cases, claim them. Over the last three years channel crossings have increased: 1,900 made this journey in 2019; that quadrupled in Clause 41 in part 3 is a key part of the Bill, because it 2020 to over 8,400; and in the last six months alone, it gives more powers to Border Force to meet the specific has reached almost 6,000. circumstances faced. The problem, as I have said, is severe. Not only are criminal gangs responsible for Jonathan Edwards: The House of Commons Library facilitating these crossings, but they show no signs of briefing on this issue indicates that, at the beginning of stopping and are growing ever more expansionist, using the century, the number of asylum claims was about larger vessels and carrying more people. 84,000 a year, which went down to 36,000 in 2019, the Migrants crossing in small boats have thus far been last year before the pandemic. Is not this narrative of a intercepted and brought back to the UK to have their deluge of asylum seekers somewhat overstated by the asylum claims processed. At present, enforcement powers Government? do not extend to ships in foreign or international waters, and clause 41 would change that by giving Border Force Gareth Bacon: I do not believe so, and I do not recall the ability to require migrant vessels to leave UK waters using the word “deluge”. It is undeniably a problem, and deter them from our shores. The clause also provides and it is one of the largest things to feature in my inbox for controlling the vessel and returning it to a safe on a daily basis. country—most likely in these instances where it originated This has been exacerbated by criminal gangs that are from, so the northern beaches of France or Belgium, or making an immoral profit from human smuggling and any other country accepting disembarkation. trafficking. Critically, migrants are crossing through Those who oppose the Bill have claimed that by safe European countries and refusing to claim asylum legislating in this way, the UK would somehow be there. In ever growing numbers, migrants are being acting in breach of the 1951 UN refugee convention. drawn to this country, and the situation is becoming That is false. It is fully compatible with all international unsustainable. The UK is one of the world’s most obligations and conventions. The 1951 convention allows generous countries for refugee resettlement, and that is for different classifications where a refugee may not right. have come directly from a country of persecution. In this instance, if migrants have already transited through Duncan Baker: My hon. Friend is making a wonderful a safe European country where they could have claimed speech. He has made two points that I have sat up at. asylum, their return is not inconsistent with the convention. The first was that it was a manifesto commitment to get Who here in this House would consider France, Belgium, this piece of legislation delivered. The second was that Germany or Italy not to be safe countries? If someone his inbox is full every single day with queries relating to had been in a country where they have seen the worst the Bill. Is it not the case, therefore, that the British atrocities possible, they would be lucky to settle there. public overwhelmingly want to see this issue dealt with? It dominates the news every single day. That is why the Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con): My hon. Home Secretary is bringing this piece of legislation to Friend has made a very important point about travelling get it dealt with once and for all. through safe countries, but does he not agree that these 881 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 882 asylum seekers are not just travelling through one safe the 1951 refugee convention, according to the UN country? They are very often travelling through many Refugee Agency. That refugee convention was signed by safe countries. Essentially they have a shopping trolley Attlee’s Government as we responded to lessons from as to what they want in this economic migration, so the the second world war, and to lessons from pre-war best way to deal with this is to do so up front and have a hostility in the media and among politicians to those meaningful policy, which is what the Bill is here for. fleeing Nazi persecution in Germany. The convention prevents states from imposing penalties on account of Gareth Bacon: I do agree with my hon. Friend. It is a mode of entry, but as Members know, the Bill disregards fact that people will travel, often by land, through that duty altogether by creating a two-tier system. several safe countries to get to the border of northern This is another instance of where this Government continental Europe, thereby to embark for Dover or are content to degrade our status on the global stage by other parts of southern England. breaching international agreements and laws to which The simple truth of the matter is that between 2016 we have signed up. Clause 10, on the differential treatment and 2019, the UK settled more refugees from outside of refugees depending on mode of arrival, includes Europe than any other EU member state. Similarly, safe provisions on whether family members will be granted and legal routes for those needing protection or to family reunion, on the length of leave to remain given, reunite with their families still exist. More than 5,400 family and on whether a condition of no recourse to public reunion visas were issued to partners and children, and funds is attached. The Bill discriminates in so many more than 29,000 family reunion visas have been issued ways, and if it passes in its current form, a woman who, in the past five years. There have been claims that the through desperation, has fled an abusive relationship in Bill reduces support for victims of human trafficking, a dangerous country, without passing through a safe which would be shocking if it were true, but part 4 of and legal route, could be criminalised with a four-year the Bill actually strengthens protections for victims of prison sentence. As refugee women whom I met recently human trafficking and will be supported by a package told me, we should remember that the nature of women of non-legislative measures as part of the new plan for seeking asylum is often a desperate and frantic journey immigration to provide enhanced support for victims. that is incongruent with Home Office procedures. The public, including my Orpington constituents, The Bill’s focus on safe and legal routes would be want strong but fair border controls. The Bill is about more understandable if it set out additional provision, creating a fairer asylum system, both for those who but it does not. The UK resettlement scheme that need aid and for the British public. It does just that, and opened earlier this year is not transparent and there is I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary very little information about it in the public domain, so and her Ministers on introducing it. the Home Secretary must see that it is not a viable route for those fleeing urgent danger to seek refuge. In its first 4.55 pm month, March 2021, the route settled just 25 refugees. Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) [V]: Albeit While the Bill has no targets for resettlement and while remotely, may I join colleagues in saying what a pleasure the only such route is making no significant contribution, it is to welcome you to the Chair, Madam Deputy the Home Secretary’s rhetoric about safe and legal Speaker? routes is empty. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak about The Home Secretary often professes the UK’sgenerosity the Bill, having worked on migration policy in one form in resettlement, suggesting that we take more refugees or another for much of the decade that I have been a than our European neighbours; we have heard that in Member of the House. That has taught me that, like many many speeches today. In fact, according to the most complex policy problems, these issues are most effectively recent available data, in 2019 Germany resettled more dealt with when we try to work across the House, than three times as many refugees as the UK, while aiming for consensus where we can find it. That is what Sweden and Norway, which are much smaller countries, we did with the 2014 cross-party inquiry on immigration both resettled more refugees than we did—and that was detention, and its recommendations for a statutory while the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement scheme limit and its ambition for community based alternatives was still open. That route has now been closed, reducing were accepted by the House, although still not by the the safe and legal pathways available to those seeking Government. asylum. There is consensus that there are problems with the The Bill contains worrying proposals that will allow asylum system, and we are all clearly appalled by the for inhumane treatment of those who arrive through desperate journeys that we see people making across irregular routes. Clause 12 makes provision that the channel. However, the Bill does not aim to solve the “An asylum claim must be made…at a designated place”, problems with our asylum system; it simply plays to the paving the way for the offshore reception centres that gallery. It is introduced by a Home Secretary who has the Government have flirted with. The Bill’s amendments been found out for making false claims to pitch for to section 77 of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum headlines, fuelling another culture war that has sadly Act 2002 will enable the offshore processing of asylum been reflected in some of the speeches today. We really seekers while their claims or appeals are still pending. should do better with such an important issue. The reported proposals for processing centres in Rwanda The Bill cynically claims to support refugees by cracking and other locations are not only seriously concerning down on criminal gangs, but in fact it makes pathways because of the potential for indefinite detention and to refuge more difficult and dangerous for the most warehousing of asylum seekers in out-of-sight, out-of-mind desperate. Whipping up divisive rhetoric about illegal locations, but frankly ridiculous because the Government entry to the UK, the Bill proposes to criminalise irregular have failed to strike any kind of international agreement entry, and it flouts our obligations under article 31 of on processing asylum claims or removals to safe countries. 883 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 884

[Paul Blomfield] the rest of them? Where are they? We could all ask that question, and my hon. Friend has articulated it in his Frankly, their bullish approach to international relations unique way. [Laughter.] I assure him that that was a post Brexit has left the prospect of any kind of replacement compliment. for Dublin III looking unlikely. I sat here last night and listened intently to the Finally, although there are many more issues in the contributions on both sides of the House. I was pretty Bill to discuss, I want to cover the proposed changes to aghast, to be honest, by some of the stuff I heard— the asylum process. Like many others, I am seriously particularly the parallels that people tried to draw between worried that they will disadvantage the most vulnerable, the Kindertransport and this Bill. That was abhorrent. particularly women. Clause 24 proposes that the appeals There is no way that any conscionable Government process be fast-tracked, while clause 23 proposes that would illegalise the saving of people from a regime such judges be told to give “minimal weight” to evidence as the Nazis. For Opposition Members to use that raised by an asylum seeker later in the process, unless parallel in a debate shows, quite frankly, that when they there are exceptional circumstances. Clauses 16, 17, have lost the argument, they just throw mud. That is 20 and 23 contain provisions to penalise a submission exactly what that analogy— of late evidence in a case. They ignore the reality of how asylum claims are made and how those seeking asylum Stuart C. McDonald: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? can gather and provide evidence. I recently met refugee women in a meeting facilitated Shaun Bailey: Not at this point. I will give way to the by the charity Women for Refugee Women. They explained hon. Gentleman, but I will just make a bit more progress. how a one-stop process would force traumatised women I thought that was a disgraceful analogy to make. I to raise all the reasons that they need protection at the also want to draw on a point on the 1951 convention outset or risk being penalised. Those who have experienced that was articulated very well last night. I agree that we extreme trauma may simply be unable to do that—we make international agreements and we should abide by know that—and must not be discriminated against for those international agreements, but it was interesting to the very circumstances that have led them to seek asylum hear in the contributions last night that one of the in our country. debates that has had to happen is around how the When we seek to reform our asylum system, which international community defines “migrant”and “refugee”. does need reform, we should put those most at risk and We have seen the debate that has been going on, and we most in need at its core, alongside the values for which heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for this country stands. Sadly, the Bill has dog-whistle Maidenhead (Mrs May) about the conversations she politics at its heart, not those values of which should be had had with the UN about really drilling down into proud or the people we should protect. I urge Members what that definition meant. By getting the definition to vote against it tonight. right, and through this Bill, we can ensure that we protect those most vulnerable. 5.3 pm Let us just remind ourselves of one thing. We are not Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con): I am trying to turn away refugees and people that need our conscious that there have been many contributions, so I help. I am sure that my hon. and right hon. Friends who fear that this will be slightly repetitive, but my constituents have been lambasted today and yesterday by some of in the Black Country elected me on a promise to sort the most disgraceful slurs I could possibly have heard this out. It is as simple as that. This is the way we will would agree that we uphold our place in the international ensure we sort out the issue, which has been going on community to protect the most vulnerable. for decades. I find it absolutely laughable that some Labour Members attack us on our record, when they Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): Does my hon. could not get a grip in their 13 years in government. The Friend agree that when we have genuine asylum seekers, fact of the matter is that the small boat crossings that we want to make the system fairer? In fact, we have my constituents see on their screens every day are what resettled directly the most of any European country in inundates my inbox. That is not made up; it is not the last six years. laughable. I can show it. Shaun Bailey: I thank my hon. Friend for that We talked earlier about whether the Bill aligns with intervention, which leads me to the point I am trying to public opinion. I will tell the Labour party how the Bill make: we need to ensure that we are best placed to help aligns with public opinion. Last week, on a 17.5% swing, those most vulnerable, by ensuring that the people we Labour lost a seat in my constituency that it had held in are helping are the ones that truly require that help. The perpetuity,because it had lost contact with the communities ancillary support—ensuring that things such as education that it purported to represent. and housing and the right skills are in place—is so James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): My hon. Friend’s important as well. description of the by-election in his constituency is I am a fervent believer that there is a promise that this absolutely typical. Is it not typical of the Labour party country has to offer, that there are opportunities here that, in an important debate such as this, on which they that people can take advantage of and that we are a safe express so much passion, so much support, so much haven for people. I do not think anyone across this belief, there is not one single Labour MP in the Chamber? House would deny that for one minute, but it has to be done in the right way. It has to be done for those people Shaun Bailey: My hon. Friend makes a very good who are truly vulnerable, and I am sorry, but my hon. point. I have a lot of respect for the hon. Members for and right hon. Friends are right when they say that a lot Enfield, Southgate (Bambos Charalambous) and for of the images we see are of economic migrants. I am Newport East (Jessica Morden), but, as I say, where are sorry, but I would rather be taking in people that are 885 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 886 fleeing war-torn countries and need that help and support, Princes End. It is in Tipton, the beating heart of the and I will not take lectures from Opposition parties on Black Country, and has some of the highest rates of that. I fundamentally believe that we do have an child poverty and of unoccupiable social housing. Do international conscience, that we are— you know what £1 billion would do for a community such as that? Of course I am not saying that there is a Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con) rose— like for like, but I am saying that by getting these systems right and by ensuring that they are cost effective Shaun Bailey: I give way to my hon. Friend. and streamlined—that has been such an important part of the discussion today—we will have the resource to Alexander Stafford: On the economic migrant point, invest in communities such as that. did my hon. Friend see the reports in the paper yesterday about the small boats, with people paying more than There are people in Princes End who, quite frankly, £8,000 to criminal gangs to come over? Not only are feel, after listening to the debate today, that this House these economic migrants coming over, but they are is just talking at them. These are the people raising funding these gangs—gangs that traffic humans, supply concerns about small boats with me, and they feel that drugs and arms, and bring death and destruction to our this place is saying that they are racist and that they are streets. Does he agree that the Bill not only helps the bigoted. No, they are not. They are just concerned about most vulnerable coming over,but undermines and destroys the country that they are in. They are angry about what some of the criminal gangs and takes the blood off our they see and they have been promised time and time streets? again—[Interruption.] I will not take interventions. I do not know whether the hon. Member for Glasgow Shaun Bailey: My hon. Friend has articulated that North East (Anne McLaughlin) was trying to intervene, really well. Obviously, the Bill is part of that wider jigsaw. but I did clock her. It is absolutely wrong that they are We have to nip this because all of us see the impact that rubbished like that, because their opinion matters just these criminal gangs have on not just the migration as much as anyone else. That is the frustration that debate that we are having today, but the follow-through comes through in my mailbox. It makes me so angry, in our communities and the blight of drugs and knife particularly with the Labour party who purported to crime that he talked about. We get abhorrent stories in represent this community for 50 years and whose Members our mailbags—I am sure he gets them just as I do—and sit here now and rubbish them. the fact is that this underpins so much of our society, We have to get this right. I will support the Bill. The not just in the migration debate, but more broadly. He is amendment by the Opposition just reeks of procedural absolutely right to make that point. ignorance, really, and as far as I am concerned, I We, as Government Members, are not saying that we commend the Bill to the House. do not have international obligations. If anything, we are trying to ensure that we can actually follow through 5.14 pm on those international obligations. When I hear the arguments that we are somehow ignoring or riding Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP): Where roughshod over them, I think it truly is laughable. to start, Madam Deputy Speaker? Thank you for calling Let me turn to the citizenship provisions of the Bill. me to speak—I think. We have heard some quite inflammatory arguments As many Members have noted throughout these about the migration debate today, but on the citizenship proceedings, it is the 70th anniversary next week of the requirements, the Bill reforms the British Nationality refugee convention—a convention built on article 14 of Act 1948 and the British Nationality Act 1981. On a the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which broader point, that is the right thing to do, because we recognises the rights of persons to seek asylum from have to accept that society has changed in the last persecution in other countries. That was the building 70 years—and in the last 40 years, if we are talking block: the right to seek asylum from persecution. I about the previous Act. In my examination of the Bill I know that the current Government are keen to distance noticed particularly the point about family circumstances, themselves from our international treaty obligations. I and we have to recognise that the family as we see it have been expressly told that those obligations hold no today is not what it was 70 years ago. It is therefore right weight in their opinion, but we simply cannot let that be that, in drafting the Bill, my right hon. and hon. Friends the narrative. That is a concern shared by the Law on the Treasury Bench have recognised that fact. Our Society of England and Wales, which sees it as vital that citizenship provisions allow us to ensure that citizens of the UK applies, and is seen to apply, a convention that it Hong Kong, for example, can apply for their British willingly became a party to. citizenship and that we can continue to protect the most vulnerable. Aaron Bell: Will the hon. Lady give way? I turn to the notion of the first safe country, which I have touched on slightly in my other remarks. I appreciate Anne McLaughlin: No! thatOppositionMembershaveshoutedabouttheunfairness Our legal standing on the international stage relies on of that, but I must bring this back to the fact that, this concept. Are we not in the strangest position when ultimately, we have to ensure that within our asylum the Prime Minister, who seemingly holds Churchill system, we are protecting the most vulnerable. I will in the highest esteem, is willing to undermine and always bring it back to that. redefine the post-war legacy that his political hero left I have raised previously with my right hon. Friend the behind? Home Secretary the cost of this system: £1 billion. When The Government are trailing the Bill as a chance to I think of the communities I represent in my constituency, streamline the immigration system and to cut down on an example that comes straight to mind is an area called so-called unmeritorious claims and time-wasting appeals. 887 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 888

[Anne McLaughlin] about the Irish experience, but at that same meeting we also heard a Belarusian politician describe his experience They have even introduced a wasted cost order that will of living as an asylum seeker in congregated settings in ensure that those attempting to pursue their legal rights London. He was at pains to point out how grateful he to a fair hearing are liable to pick up the tab for certain was that the UK had taken in him and his wife, and he types of conduct that they consider improper,unreasonable was very clear that, had it not done so, he would have or negligent. What about the wasted costs that the been murdered. He is now settled, but he is worried Government will run up if this Bill goes through about others. He knows the impact of congregated unamended? I am sure that the hon. Member for West living for asylum seekers. None of us knows it, but he Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey), who is so keen to help does, and he wants to warn the Government against going the most vulnerable in our society, will be interested to further down that route. He talked about the powder know that the cost of imprisoning so-called illegal keg that is created when a melting pot of multiple cultures asylum seekers could be as much as £412 million a year. and languages lives in one space with always just one If we do the maths, as the Refuge Council in England thing in common: trauma. The constant stress of that has done, the proposed plan to lock asylum seekers up and the indignity of communal living left him feeling for four years—yes, four years; there are some people in suicidal. Yes, I agree with those Conservative Members this House who clearly do not understand that refugees who say that we have a broken asylum system: we certainly could be locked up as well simply for trying to come do, but they are trying to fix it in the wrong way. here—comes to an eye-watering £1.65 billion. Parts of My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow Central the UK already have a prison system groaning under (Alison Thewliss) talked about the inquiry that the the strain of over-population. How can the Government APPG on immigration detention has been doing. I justify moves that increase the number of people crammed attended some of those sessions and I was as sickened into the prison estate? as she was when I heard people talking about the When I prepared this speech earlier, I wrote that the outbreak of scabies. How is that giving people dignity? hardest bit about speaking in this debate is having to She and I have both worked hard to try to close down leave out so much but that I was grateful to be on the the so-called mother and baby unit in Glasgow. There is Bill Committee because nothing would be left unsaid. a fantastic campaign called Freedom to Crawl. It is Then, Madam Deputy Speaker, I experienced something called that because in that mother and baby unit the that I have never experienced here before: the minutes rooms are so tiny that the babies and toddlers cannot went up and up, and now I am completely confused and crawl; they cannot move. That is inhumane. have no idea how long this will take me. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about people who come here by very dangerous routes characterised Alexander Stafford: Will the hon. Lady give way? as wealthy and selfish and just coming here for their Anne McLaughlin: Well, okay, if it gives me extra own benefit because they want to make money. time, I will take an intervention. Duncan Baker: There is an awful lot of talk about Alexander Stafford: The hon. Lady is talking about refugees. First, would the hon. Lady like to comment on costs and the costs of, as she says, locking up asylum the fact that this country has taken the highest number seekers, but what are the costs of housing these tens of of refugees of anyother European country? [HON.MEMBERS: thousands of asylum seekers? What are the costs in “Not true!”] Let me finish. Secondly, is there not a part terms of GP services? What are the costs in terms of of her that recognises that if we are to house refugees, housing for my constituents.My constituents are struggling as we should, and meet our international obligations, to get access to the GP services. They are struggling to giving them a safe route to come here—not making get houses— them risk life and limb through coming on boats, as we are hearing—is a sensible and practical way to try to Anne McLaughlin: Is it not funny, Madam Deputy move the legislation forward? Speaker, that all afternoon Government Members have been saying, “Why are more council areas in Scotland Anne McLaughlin: On the hon. Gentleman’s first point, not taking more asylum seekers?” We want to do that, that is not true. We have just heard—he was clearly not but the Government do not fund it. If the Government listening—about a number of other countries that, per funded it properly, we absolutely, certainly would take head of population, take far more than us. He might more. Sometimes it is not just about the money, but also be interested to know that 82% of the world’s about people’s human rights. refugees are in displacement camps in developing countries, I want to concentrate a little on congregated living—I do and that the poorest countries are taking the most not know the term, but Members will know what I asylum seekers. mean. Today, the hon. Member for East Lothian As I said, the gentleman who came to the APPG on (Kenny MacAskill) mentioned Ireland. Yesterday, at refugees acknowledged that he would be dead if it had the all-party group on refugees, we heard from the Irish not been for the United Kingdom taking him in. Nobody Refugee Council, whose chief executive, Nick Henderson, here is saying that it is not a positive thing to have a described this as a “Sliding Doors” moment. Just as system, but what the hon. Gentleman’s Government is Ireland changes its immigration system, after a 19-year doing to the system is vile. On safe and legal routes, yes, campaign, and sets out on a path to end congregated there is not a single person alive that would not want living for asylum seekers, we are embarking on the people to use safe and legal routes, but I must have opposite journey, closing down community dispersal missed something because I have not seen anything in for those deemed to have arrived unlawfully by slinging the Bill that tells me how the Government will beef up them into degrading and inhumane detention centres— those safe and legal routes so that people do not need to “Sliding Doors” indeed. I will say a bit more in a minute desperately cross the channel on those boats. 889 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 890

Stuart C. McDonald: The most important thing is to have two detention centres, with up to 1,000 people have a sense of perspective. Everyone supports safe, detained in prison-like conditions. I listen to the people legal routes, but even in a good year, pre-covid—I think and their stories when they have been detained there, the figure was about 25,000 last year—the total number and it is heart-rending. We need to express what people of resettlements globally from UN-mandated camps have been through to get to our country, seeking safety was in the region of 50,000. We are talking about and security. They are just trying to ensure that they no 25 million or 30 million refugees. We would be here for longer have their human rights abused and their lives centuries before resettlement provided a complete solution. put at risk. Interestingly, for all the money we spend on We will have resettlement but we must also have an detention, the majority of those detained are eventually asylum system alongside that. All we are asking is for released and enter into our community. After that, there the United Kingdom to offer a relatively small, by is the condition that someone must be in this country European standards, number of asylum seekers a place for 20 years before they can apply for indefinite leave, of sanctuary. and then it takes 10 years. People have been talking about the amount of money that smugglers are making, Anne McLaughlin: I completely agree, as I always do, but in the discussions we had yesterday on undocumented with everything that my hon. Friend says. migrants we discovered that it costs about £12,000 for I ask Conservative Members: just imagine it was you. anyone to secure status in this country now. I talked about a Belarusian MP, but imagine it was you. At the weekend, an asylum seeker—a young Sudanese Imagine that for some reason—lucky us; we do not have man—died in the Crowne Plaza hotel in my constituency. to—you ended up in that situation where you had to We do not know the cause of death yet, and I will not flee. Is there anything Conservative Members would not mention his name, because I am not sure his family have do to keep their families safe? If there is anything they been traced yet. I went to meet a group of asylum would not do to keep their families safe, maybe they seekers there. They were mainly young men, but we should be thinking about their moral code. need to understand why that is. It is because families Ireland has been through attempts to reform the come together and they are desperate. They have tried system. It argued at the time, as Conservative Members various routes out of the terrible situation they are in do, that its system was a deterrent. Those at the Ministry and they realise that there is realistically only one way of Justice in Ireland wanted to build misery into the of getting out, and that is the illegal route for most of accommodation system. It was not a train of thought them. They will club together. What will parents do? imagined by critics; it was their actual policy. But they They will choose for their child to go for safety, so that realised it was wrong and there is now cross-party there is some future for them; yes, it is usually a young consensus that it must stop. They reached that consensus man, but often young women do this as well. That is not just because it did not work, but because they have why there is a preponderance of young men, and we can recognised the inhumanity of that system. understand it. We would do the same: we would sit down and say, “Perhaps our son or our daughter should Angela Crawley: Will my hon. Friend give away? be the one who has the hope of safety.” This is harsh but I am going to say it: I hope that Anne McLaughlin: I want to come on to my last anyone watching and participating in this debate wakes point, and I do not get an extra minute. up to the depths some of the speeches have sunk to in The Home Secretary set the tone for this debate by the past couple of days. Yes, some have been inspiring, immediately, in the first paragraph of her speech, talking but some would not go amiss at an English Defence about people having “had enough”. She used the League meeting. A few months ago, the Government words “uncontrolled”“failed asylum system”, “illegal”— were derided after they published a report suggesting that was used three times—“foreign”, “crime gangs”, that there is no institutional racism in the UK. Well, today “pretending to be genuine” “pretending to be children”, proves there certainly is, because this Bill institutionalises “criminals”, “murderers” “rapists” and abusers. Yes, I further racism in our asylum and immigration system. am sure Conservative Members loved it. That was the It is done with cynicism that has become the hallmark first paragraph and it set the tone. It was calculated and of this Government. Time after time I have heard it was irresponsible. She knew exactly what she was Conservative speakers refer to the 16,000 arriving illegally doing. We will be doing everything to make sure that to claim asylum; cynically, they know that for people the people know the truth out there .The Home Secretary desperately seeking safety, there is realistically almost should be ashamed of that speech yesterday, and all no other way. There are so few safe routes for asylum Conservative Members should be ashamed of this Bill. seekers to reach this country, and there are no additional mechanisms set out in this Bill. There are so few resettlement 5.25 pm schemes for them, and those that have existed in recent years have been limited by successive Conservative John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab) [V]: I Governments. have listened to the debate over the two days and the best thing for us all individually to do is bring our own This Government and, unfortunately, others on the experiences to it. I represent a multicultural, working-class far right of British politics have made much of the increase community in west London, and I have two detention in asylum seekers reaching the UK via the English centres in my constituency. I have been visiting them channel. If we listen to Home Office statistics, two and dealing with asylum cases for more than 45 years thirds of them are then accepted as refugees, and appeals now, as a local activist, a local Greater London Council push the figure even higher. councillor and then as the local Member of Parliament. I looked at the figures yesterday, and for the year up I can remember when there was a single Nissen hut with to September 2020 the UK received 26,903 asylum no more than a maximum of 20 people in, but now we applications. France had over three times as many, 891 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 892

[John McDonnell] the issue is challenging Governments, countries and populations across the world. In Westminster, it is an 92,000, while Germany received 122,000. Even countries issue that Parliament has wrestled with since—[Inaudible] with smaller economies and populations, such as Spain, —by the post-war Labour Government in response to Italy and Greece, received more asylum seekers than the the retreat from empire. UK. Most of us, as constituency MPs, will know that our The myth that we resettle more than any other country constituents have a very wide range of views on the in Europe is untrue, because those countries use routes issue. On the doorsteps campaigning in elections, we other than a simple resettlement scheme. The truth is will all have heard a good deal of concern from constituents that we are not taking our fair share of refugees. The and voters about the impact of migration on the UK. Government are complaining about having to do that, As a constituency Member of Parliament, I have had and this Bill seeks to demonise people who are fleeing umpteen contacts from constituents asking me to intervene war and persecution. And in many instances we have to prevent the deportation from the UK of someone contributed to those wars, particularly through our who has been found to be an illegal immigrant in my arms sales. constituency who they know, who their friends know This is a shameful, squalid, small-minded and racist and who lives in the neighbourhood. I am yet to have a Bill, and it does what this Government do best—in fact, single contact letting me know about an illegal immigrant the only thing this Government do well—which is whipping that someone wants to see removed. So there is a up division and demonising people to distract from the conundrum in this debate, which is that our voters and Government’s own failures. I join all those who ended constituents are in general very concerned to see that their speeches by echoing the call that refugees are our borders are effectively managed, but tend to have a welcome here. very positive view of the migrants and refugees they To those people I met yesterday, and to the relatives know in their community and in their neighbourhood. of the young man who died in my constituency at the Perhaps that reflects the fact that the UK is not a weekend, I say that refugees are welcome here. I will do particularly popular destination for asylum in Europe. everything I possibly can to oppose this Bill. I want UNHCR figures indicate that Germany has about 10 times people to know that there are many in this country, as many refugees as we do in the UK and that the UK is many in my constituency, who are willing to stand up a middling destination in our European neighbourhood bravely and say, “We will uphold basic human rights. for asylum seekers. However, the UK is particularly We will welcome refugees and, yes, we know the benefit active in resettlement. That is something that this House of those who come here and the significant contributions and the Government should rightly be proud of, in they make to our country.” creating safe, legal routes for people who we have identified A number of MPs have stood up and said, “Listen to as displaced because of war and conflict, and who can the people.”Well, I am listening to my constituents—there be resettled in the UK. For me, it is an essential principle will be different views, too—and sometimes we have to that we build on the success of things such as the Syrian stand up for what is right. vulnerable persons resettlement scheme, which cut out I know some have criticised my colleague who referred the people smugglers from the system and enabled to the 1930s, but some people in the 1930s, and particularly communities the length and breadth of the United some of the right-wing press, prevented a Government Kingdom to welcome refugees without anyof the challenges from allowing Jewish people to come to this country we faced with some of the parts of the asylum system. from Germany. Yes, we accepted the children, but we did not accept the parents and, unfortunately, they lost We also know that of those who arrive by any route their lives in the concentration camps. outside of resettlement, about three-quarters are granted asylum under UK law, which shows that most do have a Let us stand up for humanity, let us show the best of well-founded claim, however they arrive into our country. this House, let us show the best of our country and let So we clearly need to tackle the major problems that are us offer people succour, safety and security through the inherent in the routes by which people arrive. The asylum system, with protection for them and their smuggling of people into our country and the rest of families. Europe is helping to fund terrorist organisations in parts of the world, which are making money out of the 5.33 pm deaths and misery of many,many thousands of vulnerable David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) people. (Con) [V]: Compassion and robustness go hand in hand There are criminals closer to home, and we have seen when it come to the way in which we manage our borders. some particularly hideous cases in the United Kingdom Our common humanity requires that we update our where large numbers of refugees have died in the hands approach as the challenges we face in the world develop. of those criminals because of the way in which they are Every Government in every era and every generation being smuggling into our country. I personally saw, on a have looked for a system that is more efficient, that is visit to the Jungle refugee camp in Calais, smugglers safer for those seeking refuge, that is cheaper for taxpayers driving around offering what is essentially a rate sheet: in the United Kingdom and for the communities taking “If you can pay this many euros, you are allowed to in refugees, and that is more humane in the way it break into a lorry. If you can pay significantly more, we supports people who have faced some of the most will smuggle you into the UK in a British-plated car terrible circumstances. with a British driver.” It is an absolutely evil trade and The website of the United Nations High Commissioner we have no idea how many people have lost their lives in for Refugees says that, although our debate is very much the waters of the English channel trying to get to refuge about what is happening in the European neighbourhood, in our country, so we must tackle that. 893 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 894

It is clearly critical that we have a really effective I find myself in the unusual position, very early on, of programme of safe and legal routes. Those safe and agreeing with the hon. Member for Glasgow North legal routes need to work in both directions. This is not East (Anne McLaughlin), in that I normally get about just about people who may be fleeing persecution who three minutes for a speech in this place, but that has need to come to the UK. We need, post-Brexit and the gone up to four minutes, five minutes and six minutes, loss of the Dublin arrangements, to have routes in place and we are now on eight minutes; I am afraid that my with other third-party safe countries. It is critical, in my notes might not last that long. view, that we get a clear assurance from Government I welcome the introduction of the new Nationality that we will have that in place to make a real success of and Borders Bill. It is the cornerstone of the Government’s the proposed arrangements. new plan for immigration and delivers the most Fundamentally, we need to ensure that we retain public comprehensive reform in decades to fix our broken good will and confidence. We need to consider the way asylum system. With this Bill, we are truly delivering on in which this operates in the UK. Asylum seekers were our manifesto commitment to the British people to take first treated separately from the wider benefit system back control of our borders and put in place an asylum under the Labour Government of Tony Blair in the system that works for those in genuine need—and I do early 2000s. Dispersal was created under Andy Burnham, emphasis the genuine need aspect. then the immigration Minister and now the Mayor of I want to take a minute to highlight some of the, Greater Manchester, in 2005. There are lessons from quite frankly, disturbing comments from the Opposition that system. We need to be wary of trying to do it on the Benches. I think in particular of the hon. Member for cheap.Unaccompanied children and dispersal demonstrate Leeds East (Richard Burgon) and the right hon. Member that engaging communities is difficult when we do it on for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), who called the cheap, whereas the Syrian resettlement scheme, which Government Members racist for wanting to look after was costly, garnered a huge amount of public good will our borders and the communities that we represent. and was much more effective in securing public confidence Quite frankly, comments like that are abhorrent and because it was demonstrated in advance that people had disgusting. At some point, Mr Deputy Speaker, I want a well-founded claim to be in the United Kingdom. It is to speak to you about that, because in my view it is not a matter of law, but the House will need to be neither honourable, nor respectful of this Chamber, to vigilant to ensure that the system is resourced so that be insulting Members. the ambitions that are set out can be achieved. Let me turn to the question of how we achieve that. Joy Morrissey: I find it interesting that Labour Members The plumbing and wiring of the system clearly need to are not here today. They throw odd comments over the work right. The concept of effective advocacy and advice virtual airways, but where are they when this is an issue for refugees at the point of entry to enable them to lodge that matters so much to their constituents? Why are a really effective claim is critical. We need to ensure that they not in the Chamber debating it? the way in which we work at the border enables us to understand the circumstances of the asylum seeker as Christian Wakeford: It is almost like they are creating fully as possible. If we are to have a two-tier system that another argument for the Online Safety Bill. They want treats people differently according to their means of to insult us via virtual participation, and then turn their transit to the UK, we need to recognise that in some parts screen off and hide away because they cannot deal with of the world it may, for example, have been necessary to the arguments. What we are hearing is generally insulting pay a people smuggler to get out of immediate danger and, quite frankly, wrong. We are truly representing the and then to make the rest of the journey by another views of the people—the views of our constituents. route. We need to consider how our courts will carry forward decisions on that process. There have been a Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con): Does my hon. Friend number of steps in a positive direction, including the agree that when Labour Members point at us and imply recent announcement about working visas for those that we are racist, they are also pointing the finger at seeking asylum. millions of former Labour voters who actually agree with us on this matter? The House needs to balance the views and needs of all parts of our country. When it comes to migration, Christian Wakeford: I could not agree with my hon. that means balancing the needs of the businesses in my Friend any more; he puts it far more succinctly than I constituency that are crying out for new workers to possibly could. enable them to make the most of opportunities with We also see the Opposition turning their back on the those communities already under pressure for housing British people and the red wall all over again. We have need and social challenges, for whom new arrivals may had this debate many, many times, but unfortunately the be seen as an unacceptable burden. If we go local, Opposition are not listening—well, they are not here. engage communities and recognise complexity, we have What we are seeing is a paradigm shift whereby the Labour a chance of making the system much more effective. party no longer represents those working-class communities. It is no longer listening to those working-class voters. Thankfully, on this side of the Chamber we do listen. 5.41 pm There is also a particularly harmful argument that we Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con): It is an have heard far too many times in the debate. It is about honour and a privilege to follow my hon. Friend the listening. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds), who is clearly an expert in this field. If I Duncan Baker: I am thinking of the clock entirely, remember rightly, his maiden speech was made during a but I would like to explore the serious point that my hon. debate on Syrian refugees. Friend has just introduced on the allegation of racism. 895 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 896

[Duncan Baker] Christian Wakeford: I thank my right hon. Friend for those meaningful comments. I was not going to touch When people want to disagree with legislation that is all on that matter, but it is an important part of the debate very well, but resorting to calling Members from another that again takes us to the crux of why we are trying party racist simply because they want to control our to—[Interruption.] I get the feeling that another borders and create a better system so that people can intervention is on the way. come here without risking life and limb is utterly wrong. Christian Wakeford: I completely agree with my hon. Jerome Mayhew: May I elaborate on that point? As a Friend. We are seeing a party that wants to fight the former member of the Bar, I struggle to criticise members deportation of foreign criminals but whose Members of the legal profession who use legitimate means to then insult their opponents and hide away by turning extend the stay of their clients, but that is surely an off their screens. argument—a very strong argument—for exactly the terms of the Bill. It is not an abuse of the system to Let me return to my speech. Britain truly does have a exploit it, so we cannot complain about that, but we proud history of providing a safe haven for those fleeing need to remove those loopholes so that our legal teams persecution and oppression. I know that because my properly represent their clients but it does not slow the own family have been part of it. During the second system down. world war, my grandfather came home from university one day and saw his entire family, other than his twin brother, get shot. They fled during the war and ended Christian Wakeford: I thank my hon. and, perhaps, up, of all places, in Tamworth, followed by Pendle and learned Friend for his further comments. As I said finally Keighley, before my grandfather passed on. People earlier, this goes to the heart of what the Bill is actually who have come here have been part of recent wars and about. Some Opposition Members, in particular, may recent refugee camps. They sought refuge in our country. disagree with particular points. I say to them, “Back the We are a proud nation, a helpful nation and a Bill on Second Reading, and try to make the changes compassionate nation. We will do what we can. That is that you want to see in Committee.” They acknowledge especially the case in my constituency of Bury South, that there is clearly a problem, but they do not want to where, if people need help, we respond. do anything to fix it. It is almost as if they want to see us fail and want to see Britain fail, and that is absolutely Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con): We have heard wrong. from the hon. Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and The way in which things currently operate is not fair Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald) that there are to the most vulnerable people who are in genuine need between 25 million and 30 million asylum seekers worldwide, of asylum, or to the British public, who unfortunately so demand clearly outstrips any possible form of supply. have to pay for it. We must help to ensure that refugees We should be having a debate about the number of legal claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. The asylum seekers within the process. Should it be 10,000, current trend means that we see refugees reaching a safe 20,000 or 40,000? There has to be some limit. If the country such as France, Greece or Italy—indeed, countries focus of the argument were that, would it not be more in most of southern Europe—and then pressing on with sensible to shut down obviously illegal and obviously their journey, paying people smugglers to help them dangerous routes of alternative entry? into the UK illegally or falling victim to criminal gangs Christian Wakeford: My hon. Friend gets very much who exploit them. There was a reference earlier to the to the crux of the problem. I am not going to talk about Jungle camp. We need only see what goes on there to what threshold is right or wrong, but I am going to talk realise that many of these journeys are life-threatening about the fact that we are trying to achieve a fair system for many people, so we need to do what we can to that helps those who are most in need. That is what we prevent them. truly need to understand. Our communities are rich in In October 2020, a Kurdish-Iranian family tragically their diversity because of immigration and because of died when their overcrowded boat sank off the coast of the people we have been helping. I think again of the France. Both parents drowned, along with their nine- Syrian resettlement scheme, which we are proud of. In year-old, their six-year-old and their 15-month-old baby. Lancashire we have taken thousands, and I am proud of Every journey across the channel is life-threatening, so us helping those most in need, but for far too long the we absolutely need to take this seriously and do everything system has been exploited by people smugglers, criminal we can to try to prevent anyone from making that gangs and asylum shoppers, who cheat that system. As journey when it is not necessary. we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Last month was the worst ever recorded for illegal Northwood and Pinner, people are paying extra either crossings, more than 2,100 people having arrived, and I to break into a lorry or to get into a boat to be shipped fear that that figure may be surpassed this month. across. That is not the right way to try to seek asylum. Many of the people risking their lives to cross the Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) channel are young men who are economic migrants and (Con): That abuse is not limited to people smugglers. It are denied legitimate asylum seeker status. extends to the so-called human rights lawyers who As Conservatives, we will protect those most in need know how best to game the system and to activists who and put the rights of those who respect the rules above encourage people to claim asylum on all kinds of different those of the asylum shoppers who take our country for grounds, and when they fail to claim again. The system a ride. Weneed an asylum system that is fair to everyone—a is corrupted by those individuals who seek not to defend system that prioritises women and children escaping the interests of the most needy, which my hon. Friend wartorn countries and those fleeing unwarranted has described, but to exploit those who will do anything persecution, not a system that is openly gamed by to get into this country, legal or illegal. economic migrants or exploited by people smugglers. 897 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 898

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. The of that lies with having a fair and efficient asylum wind-ups will begin at 6.36 pm, and by my reckoning, process for those who need it. Recent stats show that in because there were two late additions who are not on the year ending March 2021 the UK received 26,903 the call list, there are nine Members wishing to get in. asylum applications, meaning that possibly that number This being the final day of a two-day debate, it would be of people needed a better life with better choices and good to get everyone in, would it not? However, I do not better opportunities. There has been a lack of direction want to put the Clerk through the trauma of yet another in the past number of years regarding the position of time change, so if every speaker takes about five minutes— asylum seekers, meaning that people are left in disarray, [Interruption.] Too late! If every speaker takes about unable to seek work or resettle. I want to see that system five minutes, everyone will get in, so please, will everyone improved in the future; access to the UK asylum system play ball? should be based on need, not ability to pay people smugglers, to whom other hon. Members have referred. 5.52 pm Detention Action—a charity that dedicates much Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I wish not only to time to ensuring fairness for asylum seekers—has used speak about the Bill, but to describe the type of Bill that a great slogan to describe the situation. It says: I would like it to be. The Minister and I have similar “It is political will—rather than legislation—”. opinions on many matters, and I know that he has spoken about these matters before, so I am fairly hopeful That is wholeheartedly accurate. Welfare should be at that in Committee we can make changes to bring about the core of legislation. In 2019, 24,400 people entered what I would like to see in place. immigration detention in the UK—the lowest figure I am ever minded that children from the Kindertransport since 2009. However, I am not classifying that figure as came to my constituency during the second world war. necessarily low. They came to my constituency because they had nowhere Another major issue surrounding the Bill is that else to go. When it comes to speaking in debates on this young children are being placed in immigration detention. topic—and I have spoken in many—I express my belief I made that point to the Secretary of State yesterday. I that there is a right to flee persecution on religious make it again today because it is a key issue for me and grounds. We want to see the safer legal route to which where I am. I want to see young children getting the Government have referred; I certainly do, as chair of opportunities. They are often separated from their parents the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom and family members. They come here and are sent of religion or belief. We speak up for those with Christian straight into detention. The Secretary of State mentioned beliefs, those with other beliefs and those with no beliefs. it yesterday, and I very much look forward to seeing Across the world, so many people find themselves in changes on that. I wish to see legislation to protect positions where they cannot practise their religion, or children, particularly those who are fleeing persecution. enjoy the human rights that we enjoy in this country. The Government have stated that they will support When it comes to putting a legal system and an immigration victims of modern slavery. What they have said so far is system in place, I look to the Minister, because I see in good news, and it is important that we have on record him someone who encapsulates what I believe to be a where we are on that. The Government have also stated system that helps people in other parts of the world to that they wish to give people the opportunity to come relocate here because of the persecution they have been here if they are under any distress in other countries. experiencing. While asylum seeking is something that we should take seriously, illegal immigration also needs to be taken into Alison Thewliss: The hon. Gentleman is making a consideration when discussing the Bill. In the year good point about religious persecution. Does he agree 2020-21 alone—I conclude with this comment, Mr Deputy that sometimes it is the very Governments of the countries Speaker, ever mindful of your request about time—3,500 that people are from who engage in and endorse such people are said to have crossed the Channel to enter the persecution? That makes it all the more important that UK illegally to work and live without the correct we have safe and legal routes, because those Governments documentation. Both issues need to be given the same would not allow people to leave their country. importance, and I urge the Minister to shed some light Jim Shannon: I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. on the steps that he will be taking to address both. A I agree with her. humane approach must be used when discussing such a sensitive issue. Individuals should not be criminalised The Minister knows that I have been a great supporter for seeking asylum. A sustainable system needs to be in of the Syrian resettlement scheme throughout. I was place for those who want to enter the UK and can glad whenever we were able to send people to Newtonards legally do so. There should not be a prolonged process. town and families were able to relocate. The Government More important, asylum seekers should not be mistreated. bodies and the Churches that were there brought communities together to help. Those people are well I call on the Home Office and the Minister to provide settled today. None of them want to go home. Their the necessary assurance that the United Kingdom can home is now Newtonards in my constituency. Will there and will deliver a trustworthy haven for those who seek be more opportunities through the Syrian resettlement asylum. I wish to see in the legislation that we give scheme? If there are, I believe we can produce a safe protection for those overseas who are persecuted because haven in Strangford and across the whole of the United of their religion and whose human rights are abused. Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The world is a dangerous place. People are persecuted Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I thank because of their religious views. Their human rights are Mr Shannon for his co-operation, but the Clerk informs abused. I would like to think that the United Kingdom me that trauma management is one of his specialities, has a reputation for being a generous country, and part so we have decided to introduce a five-minute limit, 899 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 900

[Mr Deputy Speaker] At its heart, the Bill will break human smuggling and trafficking chains, introducing new criminal offences which means that we will now get everyone in. I will call for those attempting to enter the UK illegally and new Peter Gibson next. If you do not mind, Peter, could you life sentences for people smugglers. I know that the stick to that limit? majority of my constituents in Darlington will welcome those steps. 5.59 pm Closing legal loopholes and opening safe routes, ending Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con) [V]: Thank you, the horrific practice of people smuggling that has seen Mr Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. thousands put on small, unsafe boats in northern France, Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). is testament to the resolve of the Home Secretary, who has faced the most dreadful personal abuse for doing This Bill is the cornerstone of the Government’s the right thing by this country. She has my full support commitment to reforming our immigration policy.Having in all her efforts. She knows that the overwhelming taken back control, following our departure from the majority of the British public want to see the problem of European Union, it is essential that we deliver for our illegal entry tackled. It is such a shame that Her Majesty’s constituents, who want us to take proper, effective control Opposition remain completely out of touch with what of our borders. our country needs and what our constituents want. The Bill will introduce new and tough criminal offences We have seen the Opposition’s true colours today— for those entering the country illegally, and introduce determined to oppose the Government’s plans to tackle life sentences for those who perpetrate the despicable a problem that has beset us for many years. We know crime of people smuggling—those who would willingly that they would sign up to free movement once more. and knowingly put men, women and children in the Why they would want to enable a system to continue backs of lorries and in dinghies, and take money for that sees people die in the channel or in the backs of doing so, with not a care in the world for whether their lorries is truly unfathomable. victims will live to see another day, never mind complete their journey. Those criminals are clearly the lowest of the low, and it is right that we do all that we can to stop 6.3 pm that trade. That means prosecuting those who facilitate Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): It is a pleasure it and sending a clear message to those who seek to to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington make such illegal entry into our country. (Peter Gibson). As my hon. Friend the Member for We all know that the system as it stands is in need of Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) said reform, with lengthy waits for decisions, bureaucracy a little while ago, we need a system that commands that makes little sense, endless appeals, and no certainty public good will and confidence. I am afraid that what for anyone in the system. People live lives in limbo for we have at the moment is not that. years—in some cases, decades. That is not right, and the My constituents in Newcastle-under-Lyme expect us new regime will be based on firmness and fairness. The to follow the rule of law, and they expect fairness. What Bill will deliver key elements of the Government’s new is going on at the moment is not fair to anyone. It is not plan for immigration, on which I and my colleagues on fair to the migrants making the dangerous journeys. It the Government Benches were elected. The plan addresses is not fair to the migrants unable to make those journeys, our broken asylum system, which sadly has provided who tend to be women and children, who are perhaps at incentives to sickening people smugglers and illegal more risk, and it is not fair to my constituents, and the immigrants at the expense of those in conflict zones constituents of all of us in this Chamber, who are paying who are unable to travel. for the system. The only beneficiaries are the people The UK has a proud record of supporting those in smugglers, and we heard from my right hon. Friend the genuine need of refuge and asylum. Far from closing Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner—sorry, the door on the most vulnerable, the Bill ensures that my hon. Friend, but I am sure it is only a matter of safe and legal routes remain open. It cannot be right for time—that those people smugglers are making thousands a decent, civilised society that welcomes those fleeing and thousands of pounds for every journey across the persecution to allow an unsafe, illegal route to be repeatedly channel. This Bill dramatically changes the incentives exploited by criminal gangs. Immigration is a good involved in the immigration system and the illegal thing. It brings skills, talents and abilities to our country, immigration system to deter illegal entry, as well as to and has provided us with some of the most diverse remove those with no right to be here and remove them communities in our towns and cities across the country. more easily. In so doing, it increases fairness and reduces It has made our culture richer and is something to the danger in the system. celebrate, but at the same time it is right that that I would like to make it clear that we are not hard-hearted immigration is controlled by the Government and and Newcastle-under-Lyme is not a hard-hearted town. legislation, responding to the needs of those in need Wesupport those in genuine need of asylum—for example, around the world in a controlled way, not through a we support those who have been displaced from war system undermined by criminal gangs sending victims zones. We have resettled more refugees in this country to their deaths in lorries and dinghies. than any other country in Europe. Our vulnerable persons The UK is delivering support through the world-class resettlement scheme has resettled 20,000 refugees from vulnerable persons resettlement scheme,which has protected Syria in the UK to rebuild their lives. We should be 25,000 people in the last six years—more than any other proud of that, and I am proud of it. European country. That is 25,000 people who have been However, I think the Government are right to try to able to restart and rebuild their lives in safety. We will find a better way, first, to differentiate between economic also continue to offer family reunion, which has enabled migrants and refugees, and secondly, to make sure that a further 29,000 people to come to the UK and settle here. there is still a route for the most vulnerable, but one that 901 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 902 does not mean that most dangerous of journeys. Bluntly, To conclude, the British people have repeatedly voted, there is almost unlimited demand for a place in the UK. most recently in 2019, to take back control of our borders. If were to open our borders completely, as it seems some After our exit from the European Union, we now have of the Socialist Campaign Group members want us to the tools to do so. We have already put in place new do—by the look of it, they are going to be proscribed rules for legal immigration, and with this Bill we are soon, the way the Leader of the Opposition is going— going to put in new measures to deter illegal immigration. millions of people would want to come to the UK, I believe this Bill will give our Border Force and our because we are an open, tolerant nation. But supply is justice system the tools they need to deter that illegal not unlimited, so we should—in fact, we must—prioritise immigration at source and to change the incentives. In those most in need, not those who are most able to get so doing, we will cut out the criminal gangs, and we will here. That is the only moral thing to do. finally deliver a fair system that can command credibility On deterring illegal entry, today, like every other day, both at home and abroad. there are hundreds crossing the channel and taking that risk. First, my constituents want to know why they are 6.9 pm coming from France. France is a safe country, and they Matt Vickers (Stockton South) (Con): Since I was could claim asylum there, and before that they could elected in 2019, one thing many of my constituents have have claimed asylum in Spain, Italy, Greece or wherever told me they want to see is this country taking back they crossed into the European Union. But the European control of its borders. They are not racist; they are Union does not want to defend its border there, because genuine, hard-working, decent, honest people, and they it knows that people just migrate through the European are actually generous to those in genuine need. Union to the United Kingdom. Under this Bill, we will Our asylum and immigration system is not fit for purpose. now look at removing those people, and if France will It lines the pockets of criminal gangs and people smugglers, not take them back—I believe it should, but I do not and it is not fair on genuinely vulnerable people who need think it will—then we will look at removing them to a protection. It is also not fair on the British public, who safe third country. pick up the tab. There appear to be some in the Opposition The example for this is Australia. The hon. Member who cannot see a problem, but there is a reason why for East Lothian (Kenny MacAskill), who is no longer they no longer represent constituencies like mine. in his place, abhorred the Australian system, which is Yesterday saw record numbers of people arriving in known as Operation Sovereign Borders. However, let this country by boat, with 430 crossing in a single day. me say that that has been not only a successful policy, Since 1 January, approximately 8,000 people have made but a deeply moral policy. To quote the evidence the that crossing. Something is wrong. Many of them have Australian Government submitted to the Home Affairs travelled across several safe countries; some have paid Committee: as much as £5,000 for a ticket to board those illegal “Between 2008 and 2013, more than 50,000 people travelled crossings and jump the queue for asylum. Most of the illegally to Australia on more than 820 individual maritime genuine asylum seekers I have met in my constituency people smuggling ventures. During this period, more than 1200 could not afford £5,000 and would not be able to make people drowned in the attempt to reach Australia…Following the a journey across five countries to get here. establishment of Operation Sovereign Borders on 18 September 2013, it has been more than six years since the last successful Of the whopping 8,500 people who arrived here in maritime people smuggling venture to Australia, and more than 2020, 80% are male and 74% are aged between 18 and six and a half years since the last known death at sea”. 39. Something has to be done, not only to stop abuse, but to ensure that the world’s most genuinely vulnerable That is what we should be aspiring to—a system that asylum seekers are not arriving in this country via legal commands public confidence, but reduces the risk of routes to join huge queues and be left in limbo for people losing their lives. months, if not years, by our overburdened system. This We should also of course remove those who have no country cannot allow criminality to be rewarded, especially rights to be here, and we need to do that more quickly, not at the expense of providing haven for those in because the spectacle of these appeals lasting years is genuine need. undermining public confidence. We are going to look at The Bill will bring forward fundamental and—in my accelerating removals and measures to combat lengthy view—long overdue reform, creating a system that is vexatious claims. We are going to put in statute a single firmer and fairer. It is firmer on criminal gangs of standardised minimum notice period for migrants to people smugglers and those who enter the UK illegally, access justice, and we are going to make that into a it increases the penalty for illegal entry, and it introduces one-stop process. We will also expand the early removal life sentences for the disgraceful people smugglers who scheme, which will remove foreign national offenders, put lives at risk to profit from this illegal and dangerous and we will remove criminals who are currently in our activity.It is firmer on foreign national offenders, increasing prisons as soon as possible. sentences for those who return to the UK in breach of a I would like to ask why 60 Labour MPs, none of deportation order. That will save British taxpayers’ whom are here—there are only those on the Front money that could be spent on building back better and Bench—have written to Government opposing the removal levelling up the most left-behind areas, or on actually of foreign national offenders. They could not be more supporting vulnerable people such as those subject to out of touch if they tried. slavery and people trafficking. Importantly, the Bill will rebuild the British public’s confidence in our asylum and justice system. Jonathan Gullis: Good luck winning back Newcastle! The Bill is not just firmer; it is fairer. It is fairer on our border forces, which will now have the power and Aaron Bell: Yes, indeed. resources they need to do the job that we have tasked 903 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 904

[Matt Vickers] to the very core of the gangs that profit from such heinous crimes. It is absolutely right that we prosecute them with—powers to search unaccompanied containers, those people. to seize and dispose of any vessels intercepted, and to Secondly, I draw attention to our ability to properly stop and divert vessels entering the UK illegally. It will protect and support those who genuinely need safe be fairer on genuine vulnerable people who are fleeing asylum here. As the Home Secretary said yesterday, we persecution and tyranny, who currently join a queue in need a firm but fair asylum system that provides a safe a system stretched to its limits, often by repeated and haven to those fleeing persecution and oppression. I do vexatious claims. not think anybody on either side of the House has The total number of people in limbo waiting for a disagreed with that point. decision has doubled since 2014. I have spoken to genuine Those claiming asylum should be doing it in the first refugees who have seen some of the most terrible atrocities. safe third country they travel through, and I welcome They have been forced to wait for more than a year the provisions in the Bill to try to achieve that. We have simply to get an interview date, because they are in a heard a lot about this in the past few weeks, and we queue behind those who cross the channel illegally. That should not forget that we are the third highest contributor is unsurprising, considering that this country has 109,000 of overseas development aid in the entire world, and we outstanding asylum claims that need to be dealt with. have resettled more refugees than any other country in The system cannot cope. It is at breaking point, and Europe. This Bill is about having the powers to discourage that is utterly unfair on those who follow the proper those making crossings and irregular entries. It is right channels to claim asylum. that, if a person ends up on our shores, their asylum The Bill is also fairer on the British taxpayers, who claim should be impacted, because it has to be part and have voted time and again for the UK to take control of parcel of the deterrent mechanism to try to stop people its borders and who, while generous to those in need, do risking their life to be here. not wish to see that generosity abused. It is firmer on We will continue, no doubt, to resettle genuine refugees the criminal gangs that profit from putting others in directly from regions of conflict and instability. As I peril, and firmer on foreign national offenders in breach said, we have already protected 25,000 people in the of a deportation order, but fairer on genuine asylum past six months. This Bill, which many constituents seekers, on our border forces and on the British people regularly write to me about, is finally here. It takes time who pick up the tab. so, to all those who write to me wanting to see it done and dusted as quickly as possible, we have to get it right. 6.13 pm Complex legislation takes more than just a few months Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con): I am slightly to get right. The Government have done a good job of disappointed: not only do I not get nine minutes to introducing the Bill today. It will hopefully have its speak, but there are no Opposition Members. They Second Reading and we will finally start to get an end have all gone home, when we are debating such important to this problem that has dogged the country for years. legislation. What a disappointment! I wonder why. Our immigration and asylum system, as we have 6.18 pm heard many times today and yesterday, has not worked Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con): It is an honour properly for years. It is fair to say that leaving the to follow my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk European Union was about many things—it was about (Duncan Baker). controlling our laws, our money, our trade and our I will tell the House a little story, if I may. When I was borders. Along with a points-based immigration system, listening to the debate yesterday, I was particularly we can look to control our borders further with proper taken by the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member legislation to deal with the issues that have dogged our for Ashfield (Lee Anderson). He talked about Janis Bite country for many years. In the shortish time that I have, from Latvia and his experience of being conscripted by I want to make two overall points. the Nazis during world war two, fighting on the Russian First, there is an issue that has been raised many front and, ultimately, coming to the UK as a refugee. times already, the thousands upon thousands of migrants I have a similar story, featuring Anton Petela—lovingly making dangerous crossings to get here. We read that known as “Gido”. He was my wife’s grandfather, and he yesterday saw a record number of people crossing the was a gardener in Ukraine. Like Janis, he was conscripted channel to arrive on our shores. We saw 2,000 in June. by the Nazis and forced to fight a war on the Russian Quite simply, constituents write to me every single week front. It was a dreadful experience in unimaginable imploring us to get to grips with this situation, to have conditions, and he suffered the horrors of war. He control of our borders, of who is here and of how many could not return, because he would have been either people are entering the country. In doing so, the Bill has executed or exiled, and he came as a refugee to Britain. to deal with the criminal element and deter people from He joined the bomb squad, fell in love and started a coming en masse to claim illegal asylum. family. I am not sure how he would feel about his The Bill, as we know, will make it a crime to knowingly granddaughter marrying a Conservative MP, but he arrive in the UK without permission. In doing so, these was always grateful for the chance to start a new life measures will act as a strong deterrent to curb those here in the UK. who, as I said in my interventions, have many times Gido and his family did not see a cruel and heartless risked life and limb to come here. country. We have nothing to be ashamed of; we are a We also know that people are being led here or kind, tolerant and welcoming country.Nothing evidences smuggled by gangs, and the Bill has new powers to deal that more than the city of Peterborough, a caring and with that. There will be maximum life sentences for special city. Peterborough is the home of many different those convicted of people smuggling, which has to get communities—people from all over the world, who 905 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 906 quite often started their life here as refugees. I pay I want to start by thanking the Home Secretary, the tribute to Moez Nathu from the Peterborough Asylum Immigration Minister and the entire Home Office team and Refugee Community Association, who does brilliant for their hard work in bringing this Bill before the work advocating for refugees in my city. House. It has been a long time coming and I think all of My inbox and constituency mailbag are regularly filled us on the Government Benches are very proud to see it with asylum cases, and of course my team do their very arrive. best to help. They regularly deal with asylum and wider Thanks to freedom day’s relaxation of restrictions, immigration claims that have been ongoing for 15 or later this evening—depending on the time—I am hoping 16 years. Endless legal processes and appeals, lawyers to attend an event with the Australian high commission. and professionals have made things very complicated I mention that not just because it will be a lovely do and difficult, and there have been many heart-breaking with great wine, but because I have a great deal of phone calls and meetings with those going through this. respect for the way that Australia has handled the entire Empathy and compassion are skills that MPs should debate around immigration and asylum through Operation have, but nothing prepared me for the sheer weight of Sovereign Borders, which my hon. Friend the Member numbers my office would encounter when I took this job. for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell) gave a great Some of my team are even going through legal training account of earlier. on asylum and immigration—something they are very Wanting to have integrity of one’s borders and an happy to do, but not something they expected to do when immigration system that suits one’s nation, yet some they applied to work in an MP’s constituency office. out there would have us believe that that is not only Opposition Members have shouted and made passionate shameful, but thoroughly unpopular with the public. speeches, throwing around accusations of racism and That is not my experience. a lack of compassion. I just find that offensive. They Shall we just remember the general election of 2019, are talking to committed Conservative activists and in which one party stood on a manifesto with a promise constituency staff—my constituency staff—who are to tackle immigration as a key tenet? Which party was comforting those trapped in this endless and unfair it? It is the one represented on these Government Benches system. They are talking about decent people—Christians, right now. May I say, it is shameful to see so few Labour Muslims; compassionate people—who are trying to Members on the Opposition Benches when they claim make sense of a nonsensical system. There is nothing to represent people right across our nation? kind about throwing people into this appeals system for years on end, and our work in Peterborough makes the If it is true that the Bill is not popular, that is not case for reform much more clearly than shouty speeches reflected in the communications that I receive from my from the Opposition Benches. constituents. Local people across Bishop Auckland have not been shy in letting me know their views on the I must say that the right hon. Member for Hayes and channel crossings and the wider asylum system. Their Harlington (John McDonnell) made a typically insulting overarching opinion is not bigoted or racist, but it is speech, suggesting that Members on the Government clear that we need to protect our borders. We must side of the House are far-right. The right hon. Member tackle illegal immigration. We must crack down on the does not own compassion on this issue. The left do not criminal gangs and people smugglers and their exploitation have a monopoly on empathy. We need a much quicker of some of the most vulnerable people. Those who have and much fairer asylum system, and I know that those a genuine need to uproot their families and move to who work on asylum and advocacy in my constituency Britain because of war, discrimination or persecution would agree with me. We need to prioritise those in need should be welcomed. of protection while stopping the abuse of the system. Despite the outcry from some, I perceive the Bill to In the few seconds I have left, I want to make this point, have safety at its core. We know that those who board because I fear that something very shocking is about to small boats or cling to lorries to make the perilous happen if we are not careful. The English channel is the journey across the channel are often being exploited by busiest shipping route in the world. Over 600 cargo sophisticated criminal gangs of people smugglers who ships use it. It is a dangerous sea crossing. If we are not charge thousands upon thousands for a ticket and a careful, and if we do not do something, we are going to new life in the UK, and that is precisely what they sell. see dead bodies floating in the English channel. A We heard in the Home Affairs Committee about carefully compassionate Government would do something about marketed images of a better life, with some even posting that, and that is what we have here today—a solution to adverts on Facebook and TikTok featuring pictures of that problem. I know that Anton Petela and the people luxury cruise liners and promotional videos of the of Peterborough have one thing in common: they want glamorous life people can lead in London. I will never to see a fair, empathetic and compassionate asylum ever criticise someone for wanting to lead a better life, system, and that is what this Bill will deliver. but I will always condemn these lying criminals exploiting Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): There are people for profit without any apology. 13 minutes before the wind-ups and there are three speakers left, so if you all speak for a shade under five Mr Goodwill: Does my hon. Friend agree that often minutes, you will all get roughly the same. the fee paid is only the down payment to a life of modern slavery? 6.23 pm Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) (Con): As ever, Dehenna Davison: I completely agree with my right it is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for hon. Friend. There was a very interesting report in, I Peterborough (Paul Bristow), who gave a very thought- think, The Independent earlier this month. It went into provoking account of Gido and of the experience he the detail, talking about people effectively being kidnapped has had in Peterborough. and their families being exploited to allow them to 907 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 908

[Dehenna Davison] probably want to go a bit further. That is the reality of the situation and that comes across in the correspondence make the next stage of their journey, which I think we that I receive. The vast majority of people in this country would all agree is an absolute disgrace. It is exactly the abhor racism. They welcome immigration, and they sort of thing that the Bill aims to tackle. want to extend the hand of friendship, but what they do For me, people smugglers are the key to cracking this not want is lawlessness. What they do not want is what issue. We need to crack down on them and get rid of we are seeing at the moment. Sadly, the message that is these routes as a legitimate means of entry, and that is going out is that once you are in, you are in, so it is what the Bill seeks to tackle. There seems to be a very worth the risk. The consequence of that is the loss of strange perception that the Bill seeks to stop us offering human lives, an unsustainable pressure on public services, asylum to those genuinely seeking refuge, but would that and a limit on our ability to show compassion towards not be thoroughly un-British? From the Kindertransport the most needy. to the Bosnian genocide, the UK has a proud history of I have met the Under-Secretary of State for the welcoming people fleeing war and persecution, and we Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for should be proud of our reputation as a tolerant nation Croydon South (Chris Philp) on many occasions to holding out its arms to the most vulnerable. discuss this issue. He knows my views on it, and I am I am very proud that our nation has resettled more rather robust on the issue. I have to say that I never refugees from outside Europe than any other European thought that the French would deliver on this for us. nation. With more than 25,000 refugees and 29,000 Ultimately, the people of this country voted to take close relatives welcomed to the UK since 2015, our back control of our borders and they do not want a record shows global Britain in action. Earlier, I heard situation in which we are dependent on the French the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne playing ball for us to be able to do so. This Bill enables McLaughlin) say that I should be ashamed to support us, on this vital issue, to take back control and make this Bill, but the Nationality and Borders Bill will fix sure that we deliver, but we must deliver. We can sit on our broken asylum system with a dual approach, tackling these Benches confident that the vast majority of our dangerous and exploitative illegal routes while honouring constituents and the British public—decent British our moral obligation to provide safety and security for people—stand four-square behind us, but their patience the world’s most vulnerable. [Interruption.] I hear an is wearing thin. We cannot be here in six, seven or eight SNP Member on the Opposition Benches claiming that months’ time with the numbers that we are seeing today, is rubbish, but where were they earlier in the debate to because it is a problem and it is getting worse. Denying make that point? That is why I will be proudly and that there is a problem is for the birds. unapologetically voting for this Bill tonight. The Labour party will vote against this Bill tonight. Ultimately, Labour’s position would mean that we have 6.28 pm thousands more people attempting this dangerous route. Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con): It is a pleasure to follow The Labour party would probably put all those individuals my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Dehenna up in hotels. The Labour party would send out a clarion Davison). In Ipswich, we have extended the hand of call, “Come over. Once you’re in, you’re in.” That would friendship to huge numbers of refugees over the years. put intolerable pressure on public services. That is the Wehave a very significant Kurdish community in Ipswich, Labour party’s position, is it not? It is the Conservative which has made a massive contribution to the town, party’s position to have a humane system that welcomes supported by the Suffolk refugee centre. genuine refugees through a rules-based system, but that acknowledges that many people attempting this route Only recently I was in the Bloom Lounge, which are not refugees. Some are and they should follow the is quite a trendy, upmarket cocktail bar in Ipswich, correct procedures, but many are not. where I had pornstar martinis and all that sort of stuff. It is run by Erion and Francesko. They run the hugely I welcome this Bill. I am incredibly proud to support successful new cocktail bar, and they came here from it, but we need to deliver it. My view is that all options Albania. They were refugees. They fled Albania, and should be on the table when it comes to this vital issue, the people of Ipswich and this country extended the because this simply cannot continue. hand of friendship to them. What is more, Erion is a Conservative councillor. The local Conservative party 6.33 pm in Ipswich is a party of refugees—far more so than the Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): local Labour party. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for working so hard to We have a major problem here. We must realise that get all colleagues in. there are those who make the decision to come to this The issue of our borders has always attracted attention country illegally. They shun the legal process and come and the strongest feelings both here in the House and here illegally—break the law. Every person from that across the country. Judging by my inbox, there are some category who stays limits our capacity to show compassion actions that my constituents want to see taken very towards the most genuine of refugees. There is also a promptly. The first is to ensure that safe routes to come limit to how many refugees we can take, so we need to here are the primary routes to come here, and that be realistic about that. Each one of those people who means making them more attractive and it means making decides to come here illegally—some are economic the unsafe routes less attractive. What does that mean in migrants—means that one fewer family can be supported. policy terms? Well, we can see from the Bill that it That is the reality of the situation. means improving support for refugees to help them The Labour party makes this charge of racism, but build their lives in the UK with an enhanced integration the vast majority of the British public support the package when they come here. It means tackling the position that we are adopting today. Frankly, they process so that it works much better. The speed of 909 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 910 processing claims is absolutely woeful. All of us, I am (Mick Whitley), for Jarrow (Kate Osborne), for Cynon sure, have dealt with difficult cases in our constituency Valley (Beth Winter), for Leeds East (Richard Burgon), casework of people who have been in the system in for Newport West (Ruth Jones), for Warwick and limbo for years. It is inhumane, not fair at all, and it Leamington (Matt Western) and for Cardiff North needs to be speeded up. (Anna McMorrin), as well as my hon. Friend the Member We also have to tackle the illegal route by making the for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy), who also spoke about unsafe route less attractive, and that means tackling the Einstein’s experience during the 1930s when he was a evil of people traffickers. This is organised crime, and refugee here. these are peddlers of misery.My hon. Friend the Member On the issue of strong support from the community for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) for refugees, I want to thank my hon. Friends the spoke powerfully about how people had died during Members for Sheffield, Hallam (Olivia Blake), for Bristol this process.Improving judges’sentencing options to include East (Kerry McCarthy) and for Dulwich and West life sentences is a welcome step forward. There are huge Norwood (Helen Hayes), who spoke about their cities links between people trafficking and modern slavery. of sanctuary and their community groups that are The hon. Member for East Lothian (Kenny MacAskill) ensuring that there is support for refugees in their spoke about the links with the sex trade, but it is not just communities. that. There are all sorts of other parts of our economy As many hon. Members have mentioned, next week where modern slavery is an evil. Other measures in the marks the 70th anniversary of the refugee convention. I Bill will prove attractive as well, such as the speedier am proud of the leading role that the UK played in removal of foreign criminals. coming together with our international partners in the Overall we have a system that is broken. That has aftermath of the second world war to offer refuge to been fairly clear from comments across the House people seeking sanctuary here and across Europe, and throughout the two days.It is less clear what the Opposition to help to rebuild a shattered Europe. That legacy goes parties would do about it. They have been keen to use hand in hand with the British values of fair play, blood-curdling language to criticise those who may take decency and respect for international law, but this Bill different views, but I am absolutely sure that the steps back from that agreement and once again further Government are right to look for a better system, to diminishes the UK’s international standing in the world. promote the legal over the illegal, to focus on need, to It is a dangerous, draconian, dog-whistling piece of tackle organised crime and to support people better legislation. It threatens those values, it is ill conceived when they get here. I want to see a continued focus on and it is being rushed through for media headlines the resettlement scheme, tackling the most vulnerable rather than getting to grips with our broken asylum parts of the world’s conflicts and bringing people here system. from those regions. I am sure all of us want to see The basis of the Bill was the Government’sconsultation, support for those fleeing persecution, and I will— the “New Plan for Immigration”. The consultation was meant to inform the Government and help to shape Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I am policy, but as yet we have not been told what the sorry, Andrew, we have to leave it there. responses to the consultation said and we have not seen the Government’s response to the consultation. Instead, 6.36 pm we have this rushed Bill. Like the Queen of Hearts in Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): Alice in Wonderland, the Bill is a case of sentence first, We have had a lively debate, and I want to pay tribute to verdict afterwards. That is how the Government want the many excellent speeches made on this side of the House. to treat asylum seekers: criminalising them first and On the issue of the broken asylum system, I want to checking their claims later. thank colleagues including my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Kim Johnson), my right hon. Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): The hon. Gentleman Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) has said twice that the Bill was rushed, but we are now and my hon. Friends the Members for Vauxhall at the end of the second day of debate on Second (Florence Eshalomi), for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), Reading. This is extremely rare, in my short experience for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), for Liverpool, in this House. How many days of debate would he want Wavertree (Paula Barker) and for Bermondsey and Old before he would say that it was not rushed? Southwark (Neil Coyle), who all spoke about the length Bambos Charalambous: The hon. Member of time it takes to process claims. misunderstands me. It is the process of the Bill getting On the need for safe routes, I want to thank colleagues here that has been rushed, not the debate we have had including my right hon. Friends the Members for today. Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) There is also no impact assessment accompanying and for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), the Bill. We have no idea how much it will cost or what my hon. Friends the Members for Streatham (Bell Ribeiro- the overall impact will be. Addy), for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) and for Edmonton (Kate Osamor), and my right hon. Friend Stuart C. McDonald: The Bill has seven placeholder the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) clauses—something I have never seen before—so the for pointing out the need for those routes. House will not see what the Government are up to until On the issue of the two-tier system, which penalises the Committee stage where most Members will not take asylum seekers in breach of the 1951 refugee convention, part. I want to thank colleagues including my hon. Friends the Members for York Central (Rachael Maskell), for Bambos Charalambous: The hon. Member makes an Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood), for Birkenhead excellent point. 911 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 912

[Bambos Charalambous] not on the strength of their claim. As my hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) put it, Less than a week ago, we had hon. Members rightly it is berating the Minister for Care, screaming blue murder “judging them on how they arrived, not what they have left.”—[Official at her failure to produce an impact assessment for Report, 19 July 2021; Vol. 699, c. 757.] the health and social care regulations. Where are those Once again, sentence first, verdict later. howls today? Not a word. I dare not ask about the legal advice that was sought to formulate this Bill, but if Tom Hunt: It is wrong to say that there is no difference there was an Olympic event for legal gymnastics, it between somebody who has broken the law by coming would definitely win a gold medal. here from another safe European country illegally and The Bill is riddled with holes. It is fatally flawed and it somebody who has come here through a legal process. will not work. It will not work because of the glaring Surely they should be treated differently. omission of the lack of bilateral agreements with France and other EU countries. Conservative Members can Bambos Charalambous: Criminalising people who have huff and puff all they like, but it should begin to dawn come to this country irrespective of what they have left on them that without any such agreements the Bill will behind makes them criminals. What law have they broken not work and it will not stop any channel crossings. when they are seeking refuge here? What we have seen playing out in the channel crossings Aaron Bell: If France will not take people, does the over the past few days occurred because the Government hon. Gentleman agree with the proposal in the Bill that have closed down all safe routes for refugees to travel to we find a safe third country that is willing to take the UK for protection. People are being driven to make them—we may have to pay it—and they can be processed dangerous journeys because they are out of options. To over there? It worked in Australia and it saved thousands this callous Government, it is all a game—pure theatre. of lives. The Tories use all migrants, an ever-easy target, as a distraction from their own institutional failings and the gross inequality that falls upon their citizens. Bambos Charalambous: The hon. Member is running roughshod over international law. I would be interested The Bill does nothing to propose refugee resettlement to see which third countries would be interested in or family reunion routes and will only put more pressure taking people. If there were such third countries, I am on Britain’s broken asylum system. About 10% of arrivals sure the Minister would have introduced them today. are expected to be unaccompanied children. The Government should be properly addressing the issue of Many colleagues have spoken about the broken asylum safe routes for claiming asylum and helping unaccompanied system, but let us be clear about who broke it. The children. Penalising refugees is a clear breach of article 31 Government have had 11 years to fix the system but of the refugee convention, but even more disconcerting there is nothing in the Bill about how they will fix the is that clauses 27 to 36 seek to interpret the refugee current scandalous state of affairs. I know many hon. convention to suit the Government’s whim. Unilaterally Members who have constituents who have been waiting deciding how international law should be interpreted for a decision about their asylum status. I have had one never ends well for the Government. The reason they case where a constituent from Afghanistan had to wait feel the need to do so here is that they know they will be seven years for his claim to be processed. It took my humiliated when those clauses are challenged. Once direct intervention with a Minister for his claim to be again, it is not so much a case of marking their own determined. It should not take the direct intervention of homework; more a case of being judge,jury and executioner. MPs for the system to snap into action. With fewer claims being made—yesterday the Home Secretary One thing the Bill will almost certainly do is ensure mistakenly said that claims have gone up when in fact that people seeking asylum here are kept longer. Whether they have gone down—it should not be taking longer to through imprisoning asylum seekers for four years in process applications. If the asylum system was operating our prisons or detaining them in barracks, that is an as a business, it would be going bust by now. awful lot of money to spend on something that is not going to work. I dread to think what impact that will have on our creaking criminal justice system. Again, we Mr Goodwill: Does the hon. Member accept that the have not seen the sums. Why not? Surely the Home basic principle of asylum is that people should claim Secretary will have cleared this with the Chancellor and asylum in the first safe country that they meet? As far as costed it? I am aware, France is a safe country, Greece is a safe country and Italy is a safe country. There are a lot Sir John Hayes: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? of safe countries that people cross before they arrive on our shores. Bambos Charalambous: I am conscious of time. I have to sit down in three minutes. Bambos Charalambous: I invite the right hon. Member The LawSociety of England and Wales warned yesterday to read the refugee convention and he will find there that the Bill risks putting England’s global reputation what the actual law is. On the basis of his logic, we for justice at risk—shameful. This is the Government would only be taking asylum claimants from France, who are reducing the country’s global standing so Ireland and Belgium. significantly. As if the inhumanity in the way the Looking at the detail of the Bill, many hon. Members Government propose to treat asylum seekers is not bad have quite rightly highlighted the odious clause 12, enough, they go further by deciding to punish victims which creates a two-tier system for refugees based on how of modern slavery. The Bill peddles the Government’s someone arrives in the country and their mode of transport, signature toxic politics of fear and hostility by changing 913 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 914 the standard of proof for determining if someone has a First, we are continuing our world-leading resettlement well-founded fear of persecution and making it more programme. We are working with the UNHCR. We difficult for people to be recognised as victims of human resettle the world’s most vulnerable. We have resettled trafficking. Despite choosing to start by disbelieving 25,000 people in the last six years—more than any other trafficked victims, there is nothing in the Bill about European country—half of them children. We will be setting up a national operating standard procedure to strengthening that arrangement by immediately granting train those whose first point of contact is clearly to indefinite leave to remain to those entering via the identify victims of modern slavery. Why is that not in resettlement programme. I am concerned about the the Bill? Once again, it is just like the Queen of Hearts: poor integration outcomes in the resettlement scheme— sentence first, verdict afterwards. fewer than 5% are in work after a year—so we are going We should most definitely be going after the traffickers to do more on integration. We are also going to draw in and people-smuggling criminal gangs, but without a wider range of persecuted people, recognising, for international co-operation we will struggle to do that. example, that the most persecuted group globally are The Bill is high on rhetoric, but low on action. Without persecuted Christians, whom we should make an effort introducing any safe routes, the Bill will be a boon for to look after as well. the international criminal gangs and a boost for their profits. Rather than breaking the business model, the Stuart C. McDonald: The Minister talks of what the Government have breathed new life into it by pushing public expect, but one thing I do not think they would people further into the arms of smugglers. Having expect is for this Government to create a criminal reduced our ties with Interpol and tarnished our reputation offence that would see a Uyghur fleeing genocide in with the international community, we have lost the soft China, a Syrian fleeing war crimes or indeed a persecuted power that things such as our commitment to international Christian who gets here without a visa subject, potentially, aid bought us. to a four-year prison sentence under this Bill. Wehave been asking for safe routes to replace Dublin III Chris Philp: The hon. Gentleman mentions Syrians since last year, but we have had nothing from the fleeing war crimes. Our resettlement programme has Government. Meanwhile, the Bill gives the Secretary of principally focused on Syrians fleeing war crimes, who, State new powers to act like the playground bully in via the UNHCR working in the region, have been able, delaying or suspending visa processing for citizens of safely and legally, to come to this country in greater countries that she believes are unco-operative with removals. numbers than are seen in any other European resettlement In all honesty, if the Government seriously think that programme. That is quicker, safer and easier than illegally that will work in getting international co-operation, crossing the channel in a dinghy. We are not just running they are deluded. It is the same desperate politics that Europe’s resettlement programme; as we speak, we are created the hostile environment and the Windrush scandal. bringing locally engaged staff from Afghanistan to the Labour strongly opposes this misleading and deeply UK, and we have opened up a route for British nationals flawed legislation, and urges the Government to engage overseas from Hong Kong to come here, escaping the responsibly in a debate that recognises the humanity of oppressive regime of the Chinese Communist party. In those who have to flee their homelands and seek protection, addition, 29,000 people have come in the past six years no matter how they arrive in the UK. as part of refugees family reunions.So when the Opposition This Bill is nothing more than a house of cards. It claim that we are not offering safe and legal routes, that does nothing to address the crisis in our asylum system. is simply not true. It is deeply flawed and will end up collapsing if there are The Scottish nationalists have been saying that Scotland no bilateral agreements with our EU neighbours. We on would like to do more. I am very disappointed, as I said the Labour Benches will be opposing the Second Reading in my intervention, when I was able to get in, that out of of the Bill. the 32 local authorities in Scotland only one, Glasgow, takes dispersed asylum seekers. If Scotland wants to do more, they have the opportunity to do so. Moreover, 6.47 pm when it comes to taking unaccompanied asylum seeking children under the national transfer scheme, Scotland The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the took only a very small handful of the 600 or so who Home Department (Chris Philp): I thank all Members were transferred last year.Scottish National party Members who have spoken in this extremely thorough two-day cannot talk about money, because those children have debate. more than £50,000 a year of funding going with them. The public expect this House to protect our borders, There are children right now in Dover who need to be they expect us to combat the dinghies crossing the looked after, so I call on the Scottish Government to English channel and they expect us to remove those with put action behind their words and take some of those no right to be here. This Bill will deliver those people’s children on—tonight. They do not need independence priorities. The Labour MPs who say those priorities are to do that; they can do it now. somehow racist are not only wrong, but they are insulting Let me be clear: we will always play our part for those our fellow citizens who rightly want proper border in genuine need, but we should choose who deserves our control. The Bill is fair but firm: fair to those in genuine help. Illegal immigration undermines that choice. Instead need, but firm towards those seeking to abuse the of the UK being able to choose the children and families system. Let me reiterate the Government’s commitment most in need, illegal immigration instead allows those to supporting those in genuine need. Of course, we who pay people smugglers or who are strong to push cannot help all 80 million displaced people around the their way to the front of the queue. world who may wish to come here, but we will play our part. Tom Hunt rose— 915 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 916

Sir John Hayes rose— examples of murderers and rapists making last-minute claims, without merit, to avoid deportation. It is not Chris Philp: I will give way in a moment. There is no just me saying that. Let me quote what the Lord Chief worse example of that than the small boats crossing the Justice, Lord Burnett of Maldon, said in a judgment English channel. About 80% of the people on them are last October: young single men, who have paid people smugglers to “Late claims raised shortly before…removal have been endemic, cheat the system. They are not fleeing war. France is not many fanciful or entirely false…It is a matter of regret that a a war zone. Belgium is not a war zone, and nor is minority of lawyers have lent their professional…support to Germany. These are safe European countries with well- vexatious representations and abusive late legal challenges.” functioning asylum systems. These journeys are dangerous In those remarks, the Lord Chief Justice of England and unnecessary, and push to one side those in greatest and Wales is saying that change is needed. need, including women and children. The Bill also contains measures on age assessment. Sir John Hayes: I am delighted that my hon. Friend We are the only European country not to use scientific has brought us this Bill. He deserves great credit for it, age assessment. Recent evaluations in Kent concerning alongside the Home Secretary. But will he go further? 92 people claiming to be children later found that half Will he fulfil the pledge to actually turn back the boats were not. There are obvious and serious safeguarding in the channel that he has just described, using the issues if men who are 23 years old, for example, successfully Royal Navy, if possible? Will he process claims offshore, pretend to be under 18 and get housed or educated with as has also been pledged? Will he do something to 16-year-old girls. We cannot tolerate that. frustrate those lawyers who game the system by claiming all kinds of international obligations taking precedence Chris Stephens: The Minister has referred to Glasgow’s over our sovereign law and our sovereign Parliament? dispersal area, but there are also individuals who have come over on false passports because that is what they Chris Philp: I thank my right hon. Friend for his very were given to flee their country of origin. They are timely intervention and I agree with what he says. This children, but their passport says they are adults. What Bill contains provisions such that people arriving by assistance will the Home Office give those individuals? small boat and other illegal means will be liable to prosecution and a four-year jail term, and people smugglers Chris Philp: Where somebody claims to be, or says will face a life sentence. This Bill also gives Border they are, under 18, if there is any doubt, there is already Force the powers it needs to make interceptions at sea. a system—and in future there will be a better and more Let me be clear: nothing in this Bill would have made rigorous system—for properly assessing someone’s actual the Kindertransport from the 1930s illegal. That was an age. There are risks in both directions. If we wrongly authorised and organised programme that would be assess someone to be over 18 there is a risk, but equally perfectly legal. Indeed it is rather analogous to the safe there are risks in the other direction, and it is time those and legal route we are at this very moment offering risks were recognised. locally engaged staff from Afghanistan. Let me also reassure the House, and in particular my hon. Friend On modern slavery, I pay tribute to the work done by the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), my right hon. Friends the Members for Maidenhead that there is no intention in this Bill to criminalise bona (Mrs May) and for Chingford and Woodford Green fide, genuine rescue operations by the RNLI. (Sir Iain Duncan Smith). The Bill will ensure that we Let me also be clear that nothing in this Bill infringes identify genuine victims of modern slavery and avoid our international obligations. Opposition Members should unmeritorious claims that are designed to delay removal study article 31 of the refugee convention, which makes or deportation. Where someone is a genuine victim, we it clear that it is permitted to impose penalties where will ensure that they are properly looked after. This someone has not come “directly” from a place of danger policy will make it clear for the first time in legislation and where they did not have a reasonable opportunity that confirmed victims with recovery needs stemming to claim asylum somewhere else.1 The people coming from their exploitation will be entitled to a grant of from France are not coming directly from a place of leave, where that is necessary to assist them in their danger, as required by article 31, and they did have a recovery, or to assist a prosecution. We hope that by reasonable chance to claim asylum in France. These encouraging people to bring their claims upfront in one measures are wholly consistent with our international go, asylum claims and matters involving modern slavery obligations. and human rights will be identified early and properly, and that we avoid some of the abuses that we have Stuart C. McDonald rose— unfortunately seen all too often. Some Members raised questions about detention, Chris Philp: I must finish soon. I apologise. claiming that it was indefinite. That is not the case. We My right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland do not have indefinite detention, and 75% of people and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) asked about the spend less than a month in detention prior to removal. legal system, which also needs reform as it is open to The Hardial Singh case law principles mean that someone abuse. People make repeated human rights claims to cannot be detained if there is no reasonable prospect of asylum and modern slavery claims, which are often removal. There are frequent opportunities to apply for strung out over many years in an effort to avoid removal. immigration bail, in addition to the protections afforded Very often those claims are later found to be without by article 5 of the ECHR. On the Dubs amendment merit. For example, in 2017, 83% of the last-minute that we have seen in the past, we prefer to prioritise, not claims that were raised in detention to frustrate removal people who are in safe European countries, but those were later found to be without merit. I have seen terrible who are in dangerous places. 1.[Official Report, 22 July 2021, Vol. 699, c. 10MC.] 917 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 918

The public expect us to look after those in genuine Green, Kate McGovern, Alison need. We will do so, but the public also expect us to Green, Sarah McKinnell, Catherine protect our borders from illegal immigration and to Greenwood, Lilian McLaughlin, Anne promptly remove those with no right to be here. The Bill Greenwood, Margaret McMahon, Jim delivers those objectives. When the Labour party votes Griffith, Nia McMorrin, Anna against it in a few minutes, it is voting against border Gwynne, Andrew Mearns, Ian Haigh, Louise Miliband, rh Edward control, and against removing dangerous foreign criminals Hamilton, Fabian Mishra, Navendu who pose a threat to our constituents. The Labour Hanna, Claire Monaghan, Carol party may not be prepared to protect our borders, but Hanvey, Neale Moran, Layla the Government are. I commend the Bill to the House. Hardy, Emma Morden, Jessica Harman, rh Ms Harriet Morgan, Stephen Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I am anticipating Harris, Carolyn Morris, Grahame two votes. Even though we have relaxed the regulations, Hayes, Helen Murray, Ian I still urge Members to show due caution in giving safe Healey, rh John Murray, James distancing to their colleagues. Hendrick, Sir Mark Nandy, Lisa Hendry, Drew Newlands, Gavin Question put, That the amendment be made. Hillier, Meg Nichols, Charlotte The House divided: Ayes 265, Noes 359. Hobhouse, Wera Nicolson, John Division No. 57] [7 pm Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Norris, Alex Hodgson, Mrs Sharon O’Hara, Brendan Hollern, Kate Olney, Sarah AYES Hopkins, Rachel Onwurah, Chi Abbott, rh Ms Diane Cowan, Ronnie Hosie, rh Stewart Oppong-Asare, Abena Abrahams, Debbie Coyle, Neil Howarth, rh Sir George Osamor, Kate Ali, Rushanara Crawley, Angela Huq, Dr Rupa Osborne, Kate Ali, Tahir Creasy, Stella Hussain, Imran Oswald, Kirsten Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Cruddas, Jon Jardine, Christine Owatemi, Taiwo Amesbury, Mike Cryer, John Jarvis, Dan Owen, Sarah Anderson, Fleur Cunningham, Alex Johnson, rh Dame Diana Peacock, Stephanie Antoniazzi, Tonia Daby, Janet Johnson, Kim Pennycook, Matthew Ashworth, rh Jonathan Davey, rh Ed Jones, Darren Perkins, Mr Toby Bardell, Hannah David, Wayne Jones, Gerald Phillips, Jess Barker, Paula Davies, Geraint Jones, rh Mr Kevan Phillipson, Bridget Beckett, rh Margaret Davies-Jones, Alex Jones, Ruth Pollard, Luke Begum, Apsana Day, Martyn Jones, Sarah Powell, Lucy Benn, rh Hilary De Cordova, Marsha Kane, Mike Qaisar-Javed, Anum Betts, Mr Clive Debbonaire, Thangam Keeley, Barbara Qureshi, Yasmin Black, Mhairi Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Kendall, Liz Rayner, rh Angela Blackford, rh Ian Docherty-Hughes, Martin Khan, Afzal Reed, Steve Blackman, Kirsty Dodds, Anneliese Kinnock, Stephen Rees, Christina Blake, Olivia Doogan, Dave Kyle, Peter Reeves, Ellie Blomfield, Paul Dorans, Allan Lake, Ben Reeves, Rachel Bonnar, Steven Doughty, Stephen Lammy, rh Mr David Reynolds, Jonathan Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Dowd, Peter Lavery, Ian Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Brennan, Kevin Dromey, Jack Law, Chris Rimmer, Ms Marie Brock, Deidre Duffield, Rosie Leadbeater, Kim Rodda, Matt Brown, Alan Eagle, Dame Angela Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Brown, Ms Lyn Eagle, Maria Lewis, Clive Saville Roberts, rh Liz Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Eastwood, Colum Linden, David Shah, Naz Bryant, Chris Edwards, Jonathan Lloyd, Tony Sharma, Mr Virendra Buck, Ms Karen Efford, Clive Long Bailey, Rebecca Sheerman, Mr Barry Burgon, Richard Elliott, Julie Lucas, Caroline Sheppard, Tommy Butler, Dawn Elmore, Chris Lynch, Holly Siddiq, Tulip Byrne, Ian Eshalomi, Florence MacAskill, Kenny Slaughter, Andy Byrne, rh Liam Esterson, Bill MacNeil, Angus Brendan Smith, Alyn Cadbury, Ruth Evans, Chris Madders, Justin Smith, Cat Callaghan, Amy Farron, Tim Mahmood, Mr Khalid Smith, Jeff Cameron, Dr Lisa Farry, Stephen Mahmood, Shabana Smith, Nick Campbell, rh Sir Alan Fellows, Marion Malhotra, Seema Smyth, Karin Carden, Dan Ferrier, Margaret Maskell, Rachael Sobel, Alex Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Fletcher, Colleen Matheson, Christian Spellar, rh John Chamberlain, Wendy Flynn, Stephen Mc Nally, John Starmer, rh Keir Champion, Sarah Fovargue, Yvonne McCabe, Steve Stephens, Chris Chapman, Douglas Foxcroft, Vicky McCarthy, Kerry Stevens, Jo Charalambous, Bambos Foy, Mary Kelly McDonagh, Siobhain Stone, Jamie Cherry, Joanna Furniss, Gill McDonald, Andy Streeting, Wes Clark, Feryal Gardiner, Barry McDonald, Stewart Malcolm Stringer, Graham Cooper, Daisy Gibson, Patricia McDonald, Stuart C. Sultana, Zarah Cooper, Rosie Gill, Preet Kaur McDonnell, rh John Tami, rh Mark Cooper, rh Yvette Grady, Patrick McFadden, rh Mr Pat Tarry, Sam Corbyn, rh Jeremy Grant, Peter McGinn, Conor Thewliss, Alison 919 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 920

Thomas, Gareth Whitehead, Dr Alan Farris, Laura Johnson, rh Boris Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Whitford, Dr Philippa Fell, Simon Johnson, Dr Caroline Thompson, Owen Whitley, Mick Fletcher, Katherine Johnson, Gareth Thomson, Richard Whittome, Nadia Fletcher, Mark Johnston, David Thornberry, rh Emily Williams, Hywel Fletcher, Nick Jones, Andrew Timms, rh Stephen Wilson, Munira Ford, Vicky Jones, rh Mr David Trickett, Jon Winter, Beth Foster, Kevin Jones, Fay Turner, Karl Wishart, Pete Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Mr Marcus Twigg, Derek Yasin, Mohammad Francois, rh Mr Mark Jupp, Simon Vaz, rh Valerie Zeichner, Daniel Frazer, rh Lucy Kawczynski, Daniel Webbe, Claudia Tellers for the Ayes: Freeman, George Kearns, Alicia West, Catherine Liz Twist and Freer, Mike Keegan, Gillian Western, Matt Mary Glindon Fuller, Richard Knight, rh Sir Greg Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian Gale, rh Sir Roger Kruger, Danny NOES Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Adams, Nigel Cates, Miriam Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lamont, John Afolami, Bim Caulfield, Maria Gibb, rh Nick Largan, Robert Afriyie, Adam Chalk, Alex Gibson, Peter Latham, Mrs Pauline Ahmad Khan, Imran Chishti, Rehman Gideon, Jo Leadsom, rh Dame Andrea Aiken, Nickie Chope, Sir Christopher Glen, John Leigh, rh Sir Edward Aldous, Peter Churchill, Jo Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Levy, Ian Allan, Lucy Clark, rh Greg Gove, rh Michael Lewer, Andrew Amess, Sir David Clarke, Mr Simon Graham, Richard Lewis, rh Brandon Anderson, Lee Clarke, Theo Grant, Mrs Helen Lewis, rh Dr Julian Anderson, Stuart Clarke-Smith, Brendan Gray, James Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Andrew, rh Stuart Clarkson, Chris Grayling, rh Chris Loder, Chris Ansell, Caroline Cleverly, rh James Green, Chris Logan, Mark Argar, Edward Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Green, rh Damian Longhi, Marco Atherton, Sarah Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffith, Andrew Lopez, Julia Atkins, Victoria Colburn, Elliot Griffiths, Kate Lopresti, Jack Bacon, Gareth Collins, Damian Grundy, James Lord, Mr Jonathan Bacon, Mr Richard Costa, Alberto Gullis, Jonathan Loughton, Tim Badenoch, Kemi Courts, Robert Halfon, rh Robert Mackinlay, Craig Bailey, Shaun Coutinho, Claire Hall, Luke Mackrory, Cherilyn Baillie, Siobhan Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hammond, Stephen Maclean, Rachel Baker, Duncan Crabb, rh Stephen Hancock, rh Matt Malthouse, Kit Baker, Mr Steve Crosbie, Virginia Hands, rh Greg Mangnall, Anthony Baldwin, Harriett Crouch, Tracey Harper, rh Mr Mark Mann, Scott Barclay, rh Steve Daly, James Harris, Rebecca Marson, Julie Baron, Mr John Davies, David T. C. Harrison, Trudy May, rh Mrs Theresa Baynes, Simon Davies, Gareth Hart, Sally-Ann Mayhew, Jerome Bell, Aaron Davies, Dr James Hart, rh Simon Maynard, Paul Benton, Scott Davies, Mims Hayes, rh Sir John McCartney, Jason Beresford, Sir Paul Davies, Philip Heald, rh Sir Oliver McCartney, Karl Berry, rh Jake Davis, rh Mr David Heappey, James McPartland, Stephen Bhatti, Saqib Davison, Dehenna Heaton-Harris, Chris McVey, rh Esther Blackman, Bob Dinenage, Caroline Henderson, Gordon Menzies, Mark Blunt, Crispin Dines, Miss Sarah Henry, Darren Merriman, Huw Bone, Mr Peter Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Higginbotham, Antony Metcalfe, Stephen Bottomley, Sir Peter Docherty, Leo Hinds, rh Damian Millar, Robin Bowie, Andrew Donelan, Michelle Hoare, Simon Miller, rh Mrs Maria Bradley, Ben Dorries, Ms Nadine Holden, Mr Richard Milling, rh Amanda Bradley, rh Karen Double, Steve Hollinrake, Kevin Mills, Nigel Braverman, rh Suella Dowden, rh Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Brereton, Jack Doyle-Price, Jackie Holloway, Adam Mohindra, Mr Gagan Bridgen, Andrew Drax, Richard Holmes, Paul Moore, Damien Brine, Steve Drummond, Mrs Flick Howell, John Moore, Robbie Bristow, Paul Duddridge, James Howell, Paul Mordaunt, rh Penny Britcliffe, Sara Duguid, David Huddleston, Nigel Morris, Anne Marie Brokenshire, rh James Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hudson, Dr Neil Morris, David Browne, Anthony Dunne, rh Philip Hughes, Eddie Morris, James Bruce, Fiona Eastwood, Mark Hunt, Jane Morrissey, Joy Buchan, Felicity Edwards, Ruth Hunt, rh Jeremy Mortimer, Jill Buckland, rh Robert Ellis, rh Michael Hunt, Tom Morton, Wendy Burghart, Alex Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jack, rh Mr Alister Mullan, Dr Kieran Burns, rh Conor Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Javid, rh Sajid Mumby-Croft, Holly Butler, Rob Eustice, rh George Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Mundell, rh David Cairns, rh Alun Evans, Dr Luke Jenkin, Sir Bernard Murray, Mrs Sheryll Carter, Andy Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkinson, Mark Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Cartlidge, James Everitt, Ben Jenkyns, Andrea Neill, Sir Robert Cash, Sir William Fabricant, Michael Jenrick, rh Robert Nici, Lia 921 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 922

Nokes, rh Caroline Stevenson, Jane Anderson, Lee Daly, James Norman, rh Jesse Stevenson, John Anderson, Stuart Davies, David T. C. O’Brien, Neil Stewart, rh Bob Andrew, rh Stuart Davies, Gareth Offord, Dr Matthew Stewart, Iain Ansell, Caroline Davies, Dr James Opperman, Guy Streeter, Sir Gary Argar, Edward Davies, Mims Parish, Neil Stride, rh Mel Atherton, Sarah Davies, Philip Patel, rh Priti Stuart, Graham Atkins, Victoria Davis, rh Mr David Paterson, rh Mr Owen Sturdy, Julian Bacon, Gareth Davison, Dehenna Pawsey, Mark Sunak, rh Rishi Bacon, Mr Richard Dinenage, Caroline Penning, rh Sir Mike Sunderland, James Badenoch, Kemi Dines, Miss Sarah Penrose, John Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Bailey, Shaun Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Percy, Andrew Syms, Sir Robert Baillie, Siobhan Docherty, Leo Philp, Chris Thomas, Derek Baker, Duncan Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Pincher, rh Christopher Throup, Maggie Baker, Mr Steve Donelan, Michelle Poulter, Dr Dan Timpson, Edward Baldwin, Harriett Dorries, Ms Nadine Pow, Rebecca Tolhurst, Kelly Barclay, rh Steve Double, Steve Prentis, Victoria Tomlinson, Justin Baron, Mr John Dowden, rh Oliver Pritchard, rh Mark Tomlinson, Michael Baynes, Simon Doyle-Price, Jackie Quin, Jeremy Tracey, Craig Bell, Aaron Drax, Richard Quince, Will Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Benton, Scott Drummond, Mrs Flick Raab, rh Dominic Trott, Laura Beresford, Sir Paul Duddridge, James Randall, Tom Truss, rh Elizabeth Berry, rh Jake Duguid, David Redwood, rh John Tugendhat, Tom Bhatti, Saqib Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Vara, Shailesh Blackman, Bob Dunne, rh Philip Richards, Nicola Vickers, Martin Blunt, Crispin Eastwood, Mark Richardson, Angela Vickers, Matt Bone, Mr Peter Edwards, Ruth Roberts, Rob Villiers, rh Theresa Bottomley, Sir Peter Ellis, rh Michael Robertson, Mr Laurence Bowie, Andrew Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Wakeford, Christian Robinson, Mary Bradley, Ben Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Walker, Sir Charles Rosindell, Andrew Bradley, rh Karen Eustice, rh George Walker, Mr Robin Ross, Douglas Braverman, rh Suella Evans, Dr Luke Wallace, rh Mr Ben Rowley, Lee Brereton, Jack Evennett, rh Sir David Russell, Dean Wallis, Dr Jamie Bridgen, Andrew Everitt, Ben Rutley, David Warburton, David Brine, Steve Fabricant, Michael Sambrook, Gary Warman, Matt Bristow, Paul Farris, Laura Saxby, Selaine Watling, Giles Britcliffe, Sara Fell, Simon Scully, Paul Webb, Suzanne Brokenshire, rh James Fletcher, Katherine Seely, Bob Whately, Helen Browne, Anthony Fletcher, Mark Selous, Andrew Wheeler, Mrs Heather Bruce, Fiona Fletcher, Nick Shapps, rh Grant Whittaker, Craig Buchan, Felicity Ford, Vicky Sharma, rh Alok Whittingdale, rh Mr John Buckland, rh Robert Foster, Kevin Shelbrooke, rh Alec Wiggin, Bill Burghart, Alex Fox, rh Dr Liam Simmonds, David Wild, James Burns, rh Conor Francois, rh Mr Mark Skidmore, rh Chris Williams, Craig Butler, Rob Frazer, rh Lucy Smith, Chloe Williamson, rh Gavin Cairns, rh Alun Freeman, George Smith, Greg Wood, Mike Campbell, Mr Gregory Freer, Mike Smith, Henry Wragg, Mr William Carter, Andy Fuller, Richard Smith, rh Julian Wright, rh Jeremy Cartlidge, James Fysh, Mr Marcus Smith, Royston Cash, Sir William Gale, rh Sir Roger Young, Jacob Solloway, Amanda Cates, Miriam Garnier, Mark Zahawi, Nadhim Spencer, Dr Ben Caulfield, Maria Ghani, Ms Nusrat Spencer, rh Mark Tellers for the Noes: Chalk, Alex Gibb, rh Nick Stafford, Alexander Alan Mak and Chishti, Rehman Gibson, Peter Stephenson, Andrew Tom Pursglove Chope, Sir Christopher Gideon, Jo Churchill, Jo Girvan, Paul Question accordingly negatived. Clark, rh Greg Glen, John Clarke, Mr Simon Goodwill, rh Mr Robert The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Clarke, Theo Gove, rh Michael proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Clarke-Smith, Brendan Graham, Richard proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Clarkson, Chris Grant, Mrs Helen Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 62(2)), Cleverly, rh James Gray, James That the Bill be now read a Second time. Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Grayling, rh Chris Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Green, Chris The House divided: Ayes 366, Noes 265. Colburn, Elliot Green, rh Damian Division No. 58] [7.10 pm Collins, Damian Griffith, Andrew Costa, Alberto Griffiths, Kate AYES Courts, Robert Grundy, James Coutinho, Claire Gullis, Jonathan Adams, Nigel Aiken, Nickie Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Halfon, rh Robert Afolami, Bim Aldous, Peter Crabb, rh Stephen Hall, Luke Afriyie, Adam Allan, Lucy Crosbie, Virginia Hammond, Stephen Ahmad Khan, Imran Amess, Sir David Crouch, Tracey Hancock, rh Matt 923 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 924

Hands, rh Greg Malthouse, Kit Saxby, Selaine Tomlinson, Michael Harper, rh Mr Mark Mangnall, Anthony Scully, Paul Tracey, Craig Harris, Rebecca Mann, Scott Seely, Bob Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Harrison, Trudy Marson, Julie Selous, Andrew Trott, Laura Hart, Sally-Ann May, rh Mrs Theresa Shannon, Jim Truss, rh Elizabeth Hart, rh Simon Mayhew, Jerome Shapps, rh Grant Tugendhat, Tom Hayes, rh Sir John Maynard, Paul Sharma, rh Alok Vara, Shailesh Heald, rh Sir Oliver McCartney, Jason Shelbrooke, rh Alec Vickers, Martin Heappey, James McCartney, Karl Simmonds, David Vickers, Matt Heaton-Harris, Chris McPartland, Stephen Skidmore, rh Chris Villiers, rh Theresa Henderson, Gordon McVey, rh Esther Smith, Chloe Wakeford, Christian Henry, Darren Menzies, Mark Smith, Greg Walker, Sir Charles Higginbotham, Antony Merriman, Huw Smith, Henry Walker, Mr Robin Hinds, rh Damian Metcalfe, Stephen Smith, rh Julian Wallace, rh Mr Ben Hoare, Simon Millar, Robin Smith, Royston Wallis, Dr Jamie Holden, Mr Richard Miller, rh Mrs Maria Solloway, Amanda Warburton, David Hollinrake, Kevin Milling, rh Amanda Spencer, Dr Ben Warman, Matt Hollobone, Mr Philip Mills, Nigel Spencer, rh Mark Watling, Giles Holloway, Adam Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stafford, Alexander Webb, Suzanne Holmes, Paul Mohindra, Mr Gagan Stephenson, Andrew Whately, Helen Howell, John Moore, Damien Stevenson, Jane Wheeler, Mrs Heather Howell, Paul Moore, Robbie Stevenson, John Whittaker, Craig Huddleston, Nigel Mordaunt, rh Penny Stewart, rh Bob Whittingdale, rh Mr John Hudson, Dr Neil Morris, Anne Marie Stewart, Iain Wiggin, Bill Hughes, Eddie Morris, David Streeter, Sir Gary Wild, James Hunt, Jane Morris, James Stride, rh Mel Williams, Craig Hunt, rh Jeremy Morrissey, Joy Stuart, Graham Williamson, rh Gavin Hunt, Tom Mortimer, Jill Sturdy, Julian Wilson, rh Sammy Jack, rh Mr Alister Morton, Wendy Sunak, rh Rishi Wood, Mike Javid, rh Sajid Mullan, Dr Kieran Sunderland, James Wragg, Mr William Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Mumby-Croft, Holly Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Wright, rh Jeremy Jenkin, Sir Bernard Mundell, rh David Syms, Sir Robert Young, Jacob Jenkinson, Mark Murray, Mrs Sheryll Thomas, Derek Zahawi, Nadhim Jenkyns, Andrea Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Throup, Maggie Jenrick, rh Robert Neill, Sir Robert Timpson, Edward Tellers for the Ayes: Johnson, rh Boris Nici, Lia Tolhurst, Kelly Tom Pursglove and Johnson, Dr Caroline Norman, rh Jesse Tomlinson, Justin Alan Mak Johnson, Gareth O’Brien, Neil Johnston, David Offord, Dr Matthew NOES Jones, Andrew Opperman, Guy Jones, rh Mr David Paisley, Ian Abbott, rh Ms Diane Byrne, rh Liam Jones, Fay Parish, Neil Abrahams, Debbie Cadbury, Ruth Jones, Mr Marcus Patel, rh Priti Ali, Rushanara Callaghan, Amy Jupp, Simon Paterson, rh Mr Owen Ali, Tahir Cameron, Dr Lisa Kawczynski, Daniel Pawsey, Mark Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Campbell, rh Sir Alan Kearns, Alicia Penning, rh Sir Mike Amesbury, Mike Carden, Dan Keegan, Gillian Penrose, John Anderson, Fleur Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Knight, rh Sir Greg Percy, Andrew Antoniazzi, Tonia Chamberlain, Wendy Knight, Julian Philp, Chris Ashworth, rh Jonathan Champion, Sarah Kruger, Danny Pincher, rh Christopher Bardell, Hannah Chapman, Douglas Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Poulter, Dr Dan Barker, Paula Charalambous, Bambos Lamont, John Pow, Rebecca Beckett, rh Margaret Cherry, Joanna Largan, Robert Prentis, Victoria Begum, Apsana Clark, Feryal Latham, Mrs Pauline Pritchard, rh Mark Benn, rh Hilary Cooper, Daisy Leadsom, rh Dame Andrea Quin, Jeremy Betts, Mr Clive Cooper, Rosie Leigh, rh Sir Edward Quince, Will Black, Mhairi Cooper, rh Yvette Levy, Ian Raab, rh Dominic Blackford, rh Ian Corbyn, rh Jeremy Lewer, Andrew Randall, Tom Blackman, Kirsty Cowan, Ronnie Lewis, rh Brandon Redwood, rh John Blake, Olivia Coyle, Neil Lewis, rh Dr Julian Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Blomfield, Paul Crawley, Angela Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Richards, Nicola Bonnar, Steven Creasy, Stella Lockhart, Carla Richardson, Angela Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Cruddas, Jon Loder, Chris Roberts, Rob Brennan, Kevin Cryer, John Logan, Mark Robertson, Mr Laurence Brock, Deidre Cunningham, Alex Longhi, Marco Robinson, Gavin Brown, Alan Daby, Janet Lopez, Julia Robinson, Mary Brown, Ms Lyn Davey, rh Ed Lopresti, Jack Rosindell, Andrew Brown, rh Mr Nicholas David, Wayne Lord, Mr Jonathan Ross, Douglas Bryant, Chris Davies, Geraint Loughton, Tim Rowley, Lee Buck, Ms Karen Davies-Jones, Alex Mackinlay, Craig Russell, Dean Burgon, Richard Day, Martyn Mackrory, Cherilyn Rutley, David Butler, Dawn De Cordova, Marsha Maclean, Rachel Sambrook, Gary Byrne, Ian Debbonaire, Thangam 925 Nationality and Borders Bill20 JULY 2021 Nationality and Borders Bill 926

Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Kendall, Liz Rayner, rh Angela Sultana, Zarah Docherty-Hughes, Martin Khan, Afzal Reed, Steve Tami, rh Mark Dodds, Anneliese Kinnock, Stephen Rees, Christina Tarry, Sam Doogan, Dave Kyle, Peter Reeves, Ellie Thewliss, Alison Dorans, Allan Lake, Ben Reeves, Rachel Thomas, Gareth Doughty, Stephen Lammy, rh Mr David Reynolds, Jonathan Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Dowd, Peter Lavery, Ian Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Thompson, Owen Dromey, Jack Law, Chris Rimmer, Ms Marie Thomson, Richard Duffield, Rosie Leadbeater, Kim Rodda, Matt Thornberry, rh Emily Eagle, Dame Angela Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Timms, rh Stephen Eagle, Maria Lewis, Clive Saville Roberts, rh Liz Trickett, Jon Eastwood, Colum Linden, David Shah, Naz Turner, Karl Edwards, Jonathan Lloyd, Tony Sharma, Mr Virendra Twigg, Derek Efford, Clive Long Bailey, Rebecca Sheerman, Mr Barry Vaz, rh Valerie Elliott, Julie Lucas, Caroline Sheppard, Tommy Webbe, Claudia Elmore, Chris Lynch, Holly Siddiq, Tulip West, Catherine Eshalomi, Florence MacAskill, Kenny Slaughter, Andy Western, Matt Esterson, Bill MacNeil, Angus Brendan Smith, Alyn Whitehead, Dr Alan Evans, Chris Madders, Justin Smith, Cat Whitford, Dr Philippa Farron, Tim Mahmood, Mr Khalid Smith, Jeff Whitley, Mick Farry, Stephen Mahmood, Shabana Smith, Nick Whittome, Nadia Fellows, Marion Malhotra, Seema Smyth, Karin Williams, Hywel Ferrier, Margaret Maskell, Rachael Sobel, Alex Wilson, Munira Fletcher, Colleen Matheson, Christian Spellar, rh John Winter, Beth Flynn, Stephen Mc Nally, John Starmer, rh Keir Wishart, Pete Fovargue, Yvonne McCabe, Steve Stephens, Chris Yasin, Mohammad Foxcroft, Vicky McCarthy, Kerry Stevens, Jo Zeichner, Daniel Foy, Mary Kelly McDonagh, Siobhain Stone, Jamie Tellers for the Noes: Furniss, Gill McDonald, Andy Streeting, Wes Mary Glindon and Gardiner, Barry McDonald, Stewart Malcolm Stringer, Graham Liz Twist Gibson, Patricia McDonald, Stuart C. Gill, Preet Kaur McDonnell, rh John Grady, Patrick McFadden, rh Mr Pat Question accordingly agreed to. Grant, Peter McGinn, Conor Bill read a Second time. Green, Kate McGovern, Alison The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Green, Sarah McKinnell, Catherine Greenwood, Lilian McLaughlin, Anne proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Greenwood, Margaret McMahon, Jim proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Griffith, Nia McMorrin, Anna Gwynne, Andrew Mearns, Ian Haigh, Louise Miliband, rh Edward NATIONALITY AND BORDERS BILL: Hamilton, Fabian Mishra, Navendu PROGRAMME Hanna, Claire Monaghan, Carol Hanvey, Neale Moran, Layla Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Hardy, Emma Morden, Jessica order No. 9(3)), Harman, rh Ms Harriet Morgan, Stephen That the following provisions shall apply to the Nationality Harris, Carolyn Morris, Grahame and Borders Bill: Hayes, Helen Murray, Ian Committal Healey, rh John Murray, James (1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. Hendrick, Sir Mark Nandy, Lisa Proceedings in Public Bill Committee Hendry, Drew Newlands, Gavin Hillier, Meg Nichols, Charlotte (2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as Hobhouse, Wera Nicolson, John not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Norris, Alex 4 November 2021. Hodgson, Mrs Sharon O’Hara, Brendan (3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on Hollern, Kate Olney, Sarah the first day on which it meets. Hopkins, Rachel Onwurah, Chi Proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading Hosie, rh Stewart Oppong-Asare, Abena (4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously Howarth, rh Sir George Osamor, Kate concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the Huq, Dr Rupa Osborne, Kate moment of interruption on the day on which proceedings on Hussain, Imran Oswald, Kirsten Consideration are commenced. Jardine, Christine Owatemi, Taiwo (5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously Jarvis, Dan Owen, Sarah concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption Johnson, rh Dame Diana Peacock, Stephanie on that day. Johnson, Kim Pennycook, Matthew (6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall Jones, Darren Perkins, Mr Toby not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Jones, Gerald Phillips, Jess Third Reading. Jones, rh Mr Kevan Phillipson, Bridget Other proceedings Jones, Ruth Pollard, Luke Jones, Sarah Powell, Lucy (7) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.— Kane, Mike Qaisar-Javed, Anum (Maria Caulfield.) Keeley, Barbara Qureshi, Yasmin Question agreed to. 927 20 JULY 2021 Business without Debate 928

NATIONALITY AND BORDERS BILL: MONEY INDEPENDENT EXPERT PANEL Queen’s recommendation signified. RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SANCTIONS AND THE RECALL OF MPS ACT 2015 Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)), Motion made, That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Nationality That— and Borders Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of (1) the following Standing Order be made: money provided by Parliament of: “IEP recommendations for sanctions and the Recall of MPs (1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by a Act 2015 Minister of the Crown, and (1) The Chair of the IEP shall send to the Chair and (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable Members of the Committee on Standards and to the under any other Act out of money provided.—(Maria Caulfield.) Clerk of that Committee any report from a sub-panel Question agreed to. of the IEP which he has referred to the Clerk of the House under subparagraph (5)(d) of Standing Order No. 150A (Independent Expert Panel) and which contains a determination for a sanction that would, if NATIONALITY AND BORDERS BILL: made by the Committee on Standards, engage the WAYS AND MEANS provisions of the Recall of MPs Act 2015. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing (2) Where a report has been sent to the Committee on Order No. 52(1)(a)), Standards in accordance with paragraph (1) of this Order the Committee of Standards shall make a That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Nationality report to the House in relation to the Member named and Borders Bill, it is expedient to authorise: in that report, setting out a recommendation for a (1) the charging of sums of money under the Act; suspension equal to that recommended by the sub-panel (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums chargable to run concurrently with any sanction imposed as a under any other Act; and result of the sub-panel’s determination. (3) the payment of sums in to the Consolidated Fund.—(Maria (3) Reports under paragraph (2) must be made no later Caulfield.) than on the third sitting day after the report of the IEP sub-panel is sent to members of the Committee Question agreed to. on Standards, save that the day on which the report is sent shall not be counted in calculating this period. (4) If the Committee on Standards is unable to meet within Business without Debate 3 sitting days, the Chair shall, if satisfied that the report from the IEP sub-panel has been sent to all members of the Committee, make the report to the DELEGATED LEGISLATION House from the Committee required under paragraph (2).” Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): With the leave (2) The following amendments to Standing Orders be made: of the House, we shall take motions 6 to 10 together. (a) In Standing Order No. 149 (Committee on Standards), paragraph (1), at the end insert: Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), “(c) in accordance with Standing Order No. (IEP recommendations for sanctions and the Recall of MPs Act 2015) to report to the House EUROPEAN UNION recommendations for sanctions to run concurrently with sanctions determined by a sub-panel of the That the draft European Union (Future Relationship) Act 2020 IEP and implemented by the House.” (References to the Trade and Cooperation Agreement) Regulations 2021, which were laid before this House on 16 June, be approved. (b) In Standing Order No. 150D (Motions consequent on the ICGS), paragraph (1), at the end, insert: “( ) a motion under paragraph (1) of this Order includes MEDICAL DEVICES a motion to implement a sanction recommended by That the draft Medical Devices (Coronavirus Test Device the Committee on Standards under Standing Order Approvals) (Amendment) Regulations 2021, which were laid before No. (IEP recommendations for sanctions and the this House on 17 June, be approved. Recall of MPs Act 2015), or a motion to implement both such a sanction and a sanction determined by a subpanel of the IEP”.—(Maria Caulfield.) EXITING THE EUROPEAN UNION (CUSTOMS) That the Customs Tariff (Establishment) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Mr Deputy Speaker: I should inform the House that (No. 2) Regulations 2021 (SI 2021, No. 661), dated 9 June 2021, a the Speaker has selected the amendment standing in the copy of which was laid before this House on 9 June, be approved. name of the Leader of the Opposition, and I know that the Leader of the Opposition wishes to move the amendment, which means that the motion will be contested. EXITING THE EUROPEAN UNION (VALUE ADDED TAX) That in itself constitutes an objection, and I am therefore That the Value Added Tax (Miscellaneous Amendments and not able to proceed to put the Question, other than to Repeals) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021 (SI 2021, No. 714), a copy of which was laid before this House on 28 June, be approved. say that the objection is taken. Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab): On a point INCOME TAX of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance on That the draft Major Sporting Events (Income Tax Exemption) the matter that you have just described. Could you (2021 UEFA Super Cup) Regulations 2021, which were laid advise the House whether you have received any intelligence before this House on 16 June, be approved.—(Maria Caulfield.) from the Government about whether they will grant Question agreed to. time for the full motion, and any amendment tabled by 929 Business without Debate20 JULY 2021 Business without Debate 930 any Member, to be properly debated and voted on Declares that the Financial Conduct Authority’s (FCA) efficacy before the summer recess? Staff should have an assurance in overseeing the UK’s financial markets has come under scrutiny; that where any Member may have committed any offence further that the FCA has repeatedly failed in its remit to protect to which the Recall of MPs Act 2015 should apply if the financial markets and consumers; further that such failures have adversely affected consumers and the industry; and further that, motion and amendment were agreed to, it can be properly despite Section 29 of the Financial Services Act 2021 stating that considered and voted on by the House. I seek your the FCA must carry out a public consultation on whether it guidance on whether that intelligence has been received. should make general rules providing that authorised persons owe a duty of care to consumers, the FCA consultation is entitled “A Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Member for new Consumer Duty”, which differs from a duty of care—the giving notice that she intended to raise the matter. She legal definition of which we believe is not accurately described in will know that it is a matter for the Government rather that consultation—and would still require consumers to be beholden to the FCA to take action on their behalf. than for the Chair. I certainly have not received any The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons information, but the Leader of the House has come to urge the Government to ensure the FCA meets the intention of the Chamber especially to listen to her point of order Section 29 of the Financial Services Act 2021, which if enacted in and will have heard her point, which she has now put on its true spirit, will strengthen consumer protection and the safety the record. of our financial system going forward by creating a right of private action. And the petitioners remain, etc. FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE [P002679] (FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS) Voter ID Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No.9(6)), Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): I That the following Standing Order be made: rise to present a petition, which states: 152L Free Trade Agreements and genocide The petition of residents of the constituency of North Ayrshire and Arran, The Foreign Affairs Committee shall be the Committee charged Declares that the current statistics on voter fraud show that it with the functions in sections 3(1) to 3(3) of the Trade Act 2021.— is incredibly rare and that this is no widespread problem across (Maria Caulfield.) the UK, thus voter ID requirements are a solution in search of a problem; further that the only type of fraud that photographic voter IDs could prevent is voter impersonation, which is even PETITIONS more rare each year; further that this legislation has been described as draconian, archaic and anti-democratic, as it puts a qualification Financial Conduct Authority on the franchise; further that the real consequence of this legislation will be this Government suppressing voting among lower income, ethnic minority, and younger people, all of whom are less likely to 7.20 pm vote for the party now in Government; further that, in contrast to this archaic Government, the SNP Government in Holyrood is Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP) focused on measures to extend the franchise and encourage [V]: Eid Mubarak, Mr Deputy Speaker, to you and turnout; further that the SNP has already introduced votes for 16 everyone. and 17-year-olds, refugees, and foreign nationals with leave to remain; and further that voting should be made as easy as I rise to present a petition on behalf of my constituents possible with no barrier to contributing to democracy. in relation to the experiences that many of them have The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons had with the Financial Conduct Authority and their urge the Government to dismiss any plans to implement legislation feeling that it is not entirely fit for purpose. that enforces voter IDs. The petition states: And the petitioners remain, etc. The petition of residents of the constituency of Linlithgow [P002680] and East Falkirk, 931 20 JULY 2021 Scotland Act 1998: 932 Role of the Lord Advocate Scotland Act 1998: It has also caused consternation and anger within police Role of the Lord Advocate and prosecution services, where the overwhelming majority of staff act without bias and free of any favour or Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House prejudice. The reputation of the many has been traduced do now adjourn.—(David T.C. Davies.) by a few. It was the former Lord Advocate’sdecision, and seeking 7.23 pm to cast blame on his predecessor was shameful and Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba): I believe inadequate. An inquiry, perhaps even by a non-Scottish that many of the ills that afflict Scotland can be laid at judicial figure, has been promised. Additionally, there is the door of this Tory Government. The Tories have not the financial cost. The quantum of damages is for the been elected in Scotland not just for the 55 years of hurt court, but suggestions are that the final bill could reach experienced by English football fans, but for 65 years— £60 million or £80 million—this in an organisation with longer than I have lived. Independence is therefore an annual budget of £300 million, struggling to meet essential, but not all ills rest there; some, along with our existing commitments. The price will be paid by Scottish demons such as alcohol and violence, can and must be taxpayers and the loss felt by hard-pressed Scottish public addressed by ourselves. The role of the Lord Advocate services. is one. Secondly, and just as alarming, has been the role of The Lord Advocate and Law Officers, along with the Lord Advocate and a coterie around him within the Ministers, are part of Scotland’s offices of state. They Crown Office in the Alex Salmond case, and the fallout are enshrined in the Scotland Act 1998, which established from it. It is another instance of the public having the Scottish Parliament. That is why legislative change to pay the price of Government incompetence, with the is required, so I am grateful for the opportunity to raise legal expenses bill in the civil case amounting to £500,000, this issue.I welcome the willingness of the UK Government but where the issue of impartiality as well as competence to assist, and I hope that urgency will now be shown by was raised. In the civil case, the presiding judge described the Scottish Government. Scottish democracy badly the Scottish Government’sactions as “unlawful”, “unfair” requires it. and “tainted by apparent bias”. During proceedings, senior Before the post of Secretary of State for Scotland external counsel, Roddy Dunlop QC, dean of the Faculty was created, the Lord Advocate was the power in the of Advocates, expressed horror at the situation he and land, and some postholders were despotic indeed. The his colleague had been put in by their client. They could transportation of Thomas Muir and the hanging and no longer rest on pleadings they knew to be untrue. The beheading of Baird, Hardie and Wilson, the Scottish client was the Government, and their senior legal adviser radicals and 1820 martyrs, are crimes that lie with them. was the Lord Advocate. A criminal case followed the failed Thankfully, the post devolved and became a purely civil case and was prosecuted by the Crown Office, legal role, but an anachronism was built in, for the where the same Lord Advocate remained in office. postholder is both principal legal adviser to the Scottish Despite growing pressures on police and prosecution, Government yet also head of the prosecution service—the nothing has been spared—nothing has been too trivial—but Crown Office, as it is known. That is something replicated the targets always seem selective. The Alex Salmond neither elsewhere in the United Kingdom nor, indeed, case saw resources deployed that are normally reserved in any modern democracy. Conflict of interest precludes for serious organised crime figures or serial killers, for it. In England and Wales, an Attorney General advises charges that, were it not for who was being prosecuted, the Government from within. Meanwhile, a head of the would either never have seen the light of day or appeared prosecution service is both separate and independent only in the lowest courts, not the High Court. I say that from Government. But not so in Scotland, and therein as someone who was Justice Secretary for seven and a lies the problem. half years but also a defence agent for 20 years. As it Tobe fair, apart from those despotic years, postholders, was, Mr Salmond was acquitted on all charges, by a irrespective of political hue and whether pre or post- majority female jury. devolution, have acted with the impartiality expected. It is standard practice in cases involving politicians Modest steps were taken to mitigate the conflict of that the Lord Advocate recuses himself from involvement powers.Under Alex Salmond’sAdministration a convention in the consideration or prosecution of the case, and that was invoked that the Lord Advocate appeared at Cabinet was done here, with no direct involvement in the only when legal advice was to be given and did not prosecution. However,at the same time, the Lord Advocate participate in wider political debate. But the anachronism had been, and was, sitting on Scottish Government still lingered. Under Nicola Sturgeon’s Administration committees dealing with the civil case, where referral or it has been brutally exposed by both Scottish Government prosecution was being actively sought and advised by and Crown Office actions, with the Lord Advocate the Administration. straddling both. Change is now needed, and fast. Let us recall that a prosecution was sought by the Firstly, there has been an admission by the outgoing Scottish Government, as the actions of the director of Lord Advocate of malicious prosecutions involving the human resources in contacting the police confirm. Many— administrators in the Rangers FC liquidation. That is indeed, most—complainers were and remain at the unprecedented in Scotland, not just in recent years but heart of Government, or are officials or otherwise since those days of the early 19th century. Even south of closely linked with the governing party. Prosecution was the border there have been no such cases since 1999, encouraged and pressed for by the chief executive of the and high-profile cases before such as the Winston Silcott governing party, who is the First Minister’s husband. and Daniel Morgan cases were rare. It has caused alarm Chinese walls and recusal are entirely inadequate. In with the public and been of huge reputational damage one role, the Lord Advocate was supporting a Government in an organisation where impartiality is imperative. pursuing prosecution; in another, he was denying that it 933 Scotland Act 1998: 20 JULY 2021 Scotland Act 1998: 934 Role of the Lord Advocate Role of the Lord Advocate was anything to do with him. A separation of powers The situation is now critical as a police investigation this certainly was not. When James Wolffe appeared has opened into the SNP’s finances. The party leader is before the Holyrood Committee considering the Salmond the First Minister and her husband is chief executive. prosecution, he was frankly evasive and obfuscating, This situation would be intolerable in any public body mirroring the actions of the Crown and the Government or private company, or even in a bowling or social club in a lack of openness and transparency. There was in any Scottish town. The idea that the chief steward neither contrition nor candour. Open government this could be the spouse of the treasurer would draw derision certainly was not. and rejection, but not so in Scotland’s governing party. The fallout and failures continue to reverberate.Following Worsening that further is the fact that all three members on from the Alex Salmond case has been that of Craig of the SNP finance and audit committee resigned from Murray, a writer and former diplomat. His conviction is their roles when refused information by the chief executive. under appeal at the Supreme Court; accordingly, I That has been followed by the resignation of the elected refrain from commenting on specifics of the case. Instead, treasurer, the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West I restrict my remarks to the decision by the Crown to Fife (Douglas Chapman), for similar reasons. Given prosecute Mr Murray for jigsaw identification of what has happened, can the Scottish public be assured complainers in the case. Why was he prosecuted when that the investigation will have access to all information, others who did so—in one case certainly overtly, and in and that any decision to prosecute or not will be made many others much more flagrantly than by Mr Murray— on legal criteria and in the interests of justice? were not? No action was taken against them. Protocols have failed, been breached or even abused. Moreover, publications that in any other case would Interim steps can be taken to separate the roles. Perhaps have constituted a clear contempt of court went without there should not just be a recusal, as there no doubt will censure by the Crown. They included newspaper articles be by the Lord Advocate, but, as with the Rangers FC as prejudicial as I have ever seen, but they were supporting investigation, the bringing in of an external judicial prosecution, whereas Mr Murray, though seeking to adviser. Moreover, the Lord Advocate has recused herself report factually, was not. It seems that the Crown has from involvement in the Rangers FC civil proceedings. one law for those supporting the Government line and Maybe she could recuse herself from all direct Government another for those who challenge it. involvement. An in-house legal department exists. The duty to represent the Government in court and pursue Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba): constitutional challenges remains, but that can be dealt My hon. Friend will be aware of the case of journalist with by external counsel. Mark Hirst, who was arrested and charged with threatening Change and a separation of powers there must be. and abusive behaviour. However, when that case went The twin roles of the Lord Advocate in prosecution and before Sheriff Paterson, he ruled that there was no case in advising Government are an historical anachronism, to answer, and that Hirst had simply been giving his and are entirely unsuited to a modern democracy. As a opinion of the situation in the SNP and no more than former Justice Secretary, as well as someone who has that. There are also cases of police knocking on doors practised law in Scotland for over 20 years and cherishes for single tweets, and others that are sub judice or where our distinct system, I am appalled at what has happened, charges have yet to be brought. and I know that is echoed in legal circles. All this is exerting a chilling effect on democracy in Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): I am Scotland. Does my hon. Friend share my concern that, very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I am even in the absence of any evidence of wrongdoing or not going to comment on any of the particular cases malfeasance, any continued failure by the Scottish that he has mentioned, but is he aware that the First Government to address the separation of powers reinforces Minister of Scotland has recognised that there is a case talk of deliberate and targeted harassment of individuals for reform and does he agree that all that is really critical of the Scottish Government, their policies and needed is for this House to pass a Bill to amend the their leadership, including their role in the Salmond Scotland Act to give the Scottish Parliament the power affair? to make alterations to the role of Lord Advocate? The Kenny MacAskill: Absolutely.There is a clear perception Scottish Parliament could then properly consider what I of there being far from equanimity or, indeed, even think he is suggesting—that is, separating the position balance by the Crown. into roles akin to the Attorney General and the Director of Public Prosecutions in England. I stress that I am not Now James Wolffe has stepped down as Lord Advocate, making any comment on the cases that he has mentioned. replaced by Dorothy Bain. Ms Bain has an illustrious I am simply drawing to his attention the fact that the record of service and I wish her well, but the structural First Minister has recognised the case for reform and flaw remains. Personnel changes, no matter how merited, that this might be the best way to do it. cannot resolve the fundamental flawof a lack of separation of powers. The impartiality of the Crown is an imperative Kenny MacAskill: Recognition is one thing; progress in a democracy. It must be seen to act in the public is quite another. We are now in July. Holyrood is in interest, not that of the Government or their friends or recess. We have had an election. And we are still to allies. The coterie who surrounded Mr Wolffe and who see any action other than rhetoric from the Scottish were instrumental in driving these policies and actions, Government. It is entirely inadequate. I do accept what often against the wishes and views of long-serving staff, the hon. and learned Member says—that it should be still remain—in particular, the Crown Agent, Mr Harvie, for the Scottish Parliament to decide what the structure the senior civil servant. Unusually among senior Crown should be. I think it has to be a structure that will staff, his career has not simply been as a procurator mirror most democracies south of the border or indeed fiscal in Scotland, but has included service in and elsewhere. It should be for the Scottish Parliament to secondment to British Government Departments. decide, but they have to show greater willingness. 935 Scotland Act 1998: 20 JULY 2021 Scotland Act 1998: 936 Role of the Lord Advocate Role of the Lord Advocate [Kenny MacAskill] later known as the Scottish Government, and a Parliament. The Scottish Parliament took responsibility in areas I call on the Minister to engage with the Scottish such as education, law enforcement, health and social Government as a matter of urgency so that changes can care, and local government, among others, but there are be made to the 1998 Act to provide for a complete many others that remain the prerogative of the UK separation of powers between the head of the prosecution Parliament through schedule 5 to the Act. There are too service and the senior government legal adviser. Every many to list, but a few examples would be foreign modern democracy does so and so must Scotland. The affairs, international trade, defence, national security, failures have been too many and the risks are too great, energy and, of course, the constitution. for justice has not only to be done, but must be seen to Since 1998, there have been two major adjustments to be done. the devolution settlement, the Scotland Acts of 2012 and 2016. The 2012 Act represented the first transfer of 7.41 pm fiscal powers from Westminster to the Scottish Parliament The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland following devolution. After the independence referendum (David Duguid): I thank the hon. Member for East of 2014, where the clear majority voted to stay in the Lothian (Kenny MacAskill) and congratulate him on Union, and after the Smith Commission, the 2016 Act calling this Adjournment debate. I know that he and was passed to transfer a range of tax and welfare others—he in particular—have taken a keen interest in powers to the Scottish Parliament. These Acts have this subject. I am grateful for the opportunity to hear created one of the most powerful devolved Parliaments his views and those of others on this important in the world and give the Scottish Government power constitutional issue, particularly in the light of the hon. over numerous aspects of Scotland’s governance. Member’s former role as Cabinet Secretary for Justice As hon. Members will be aware, the Lord Advocate is in the Scottish Government. the Scottish Government’s most senior Law Officer and I recognise the concerns that the hon. Member raised principal legal adviser—that is the topic of this debate. during his speech regarding the dual role of the Lord Section 48 of the 1998 Act, in addition to providing for Advocate, both current and historical—we always enjoy the appointment of the Lord Advocate and their removal a bit of Scottish history when we hear the hon. Member from office, also makes provision for the independence speak in this place—as the senior legal adviser and the of the Lord Advocate in their capacity as head of the most senior Law Officer. The hon. Member referenced systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of specific cases. I hope he understands that it would be deaths in Scotland. This was to ensure the traditional inappropriate for me or any Minister to comment independence of the Lord Advocate when taking decisions specifically on those cases at this point. Although the related to those matters continued after they became a UK Government would have a role to play in any member of the Scottish Government. changes to the role of the Lord Advocate, I stress that it The Lord Advocate’s role as head of the systems of would be inappropriate for me to speculate on what criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths is, in action should be taken at this time. I will therefore section 29 of the 1998 Act, protected from modification provide some context on the role of the Lord Advocate by an Act of the Scottish Parliament. The hon. Member before I explain the set process that any changes must for East Lothian has mentioned the limitation on legislative go through before the UK Government can take a competence in section 29, and any formal separation of position. responsibilities would require legislation. Although the UK Government have the power to bring forward legislation Joanna Cherry: I hear that the Minister is not going to make this change, in practice we would want to to speculate or set out a plan, but does he agree that one ensure the Scottish Government have first put their route might be for this Parliament to pass a Bill amending proposals to the Scottish Parliament for scrutiny. the Scotland Act so that the dual role of the Lord Advocate could be revisited by the Scottish Parliament? Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): This is a complex Of course, under the current Scotland Act, the role of matter, but does the Minister not agree that there is the Lord Advocate is reserved to this Parliament. Does distrust and conflicting opinions on the division of the he agree that one potential way forward would be to role of the Lord Advocate within the Scottish Parliament pass very straightforward Bill that gave the power to and Holyrood, and that these proposals would need to change the role to the Scottish Parliament? be scrutinised before the Scotland Act 1998 is changed? Does he further agree that these matters must be addressed David Duguid: I will be coming to that point in a bit in Holyrood before Westminster is expected to change more detail later in my response. Although that is law? possible in theory, I will explain later why in practice the UK Government would choose not to go directly down David Duguid: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his that route. If the hon. and learned Lady will forgive me, timely intervention, because that is kind of the point I I will come back to that in a minute or two. was making. Although the UK Government, as I said The context of the role of the Lord Advocate is the to the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South Scotland Act 1998, which I will refer to, for brevity, as West (Joanna Cherry), have the power to bring forward the 1988 Act. Section 48 of that Act makes provision such legislation, in practice we would want to ensure regarding the appointment of the Lord Advocate and that the Scottish Government have put the proposals to their removal from office. The 1988 Act itself came be scrutinised by the Scottish Parliament. It is therefore about after 74% of voters in the 1997 devolution referendum a matter for the Scottish Government, in the first instance. were in favour of a Scottish Parliament. The subsequent It is only right that the Scottish Parliament has an ’98 Act devolved significant powers to Scotland and opportunity to scrutinise and debate these proposals. legislated for the establishment of a Scottish Executive, Only once these proposals are agreed in principle in the 937 Scotland Act 1998: 20 JULY 2021 Scotland Act 1998: 938 Role of the Lord Advocate Role of the Lord Advocate Scottish Parliament would we expect the Scottish David Duguid: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his Government to make a formal representation to the intervention. Of course, what he is referring to is an Secretary of State for Scotland, as custodian of the informal arrangement, and by definition there would be devolution settlement, and then the UK Government nothing to stop such an informal arrangement if that would consider the next steps. was agreed by those involved, but again the question is As I think the hon. and learned Lady said, the SNP not one for me, as a UK Government Minister, to made a manifesto commitment ahead of the recent decide. Scottish parliamentary elections to consult on whether The UK Government continue to work closely with the dual function should be separated in the future. It is the Scottish Government on all amendments to the right that our colleagues at Holyrood, rather than UK 1998 Act to ensure that we are delivering together for Ministers, take the lead on deciding what must now Scotland. Devolution, brought about by that Act, is the happen, or at least they should take that first step. We means by which our two Governments work together. It have not received, as far as I know at this time, any is also the means by which we continue to live in one of requests from the Scottish Government to amend the the most successful and long-lasting political unions 1998 Act, and it would therefore be premature for the in history, as part of a devolution settlement that is UK Government to comment further on that point. aimed—and we strive for this, at least—to strike the right balance. Neale Hanvey: Surely there is nothing to prevent the Scottish Government from returning to the arrangement Question put and agreed to. of the Salmond Government, where the Law Officer recused himself from Cabinet discussions on an informal basis, despite the separation of powers not being in place. That would at least show some willingness towards 7.49 pm a formal separation, or towards a consideration of that matter before the Scottish Parliament. House adjourned. 939 20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 940

Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

The following is the list of Members currently certified Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP) Owen Thompson as eligible for a proxy vote, and of the Members nominated Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab) Chris Elmore as their proxy: Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con) Stuart Andrew Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Bell Ribeiro-Addy Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Owen Thompson Stoke Newington) (Lab) Bellshill) (SNP) Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Stuart Andrew Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) Stuart Andrew Kincardine) (Con) (Con) Ben Bradley (Mansfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con) Stuart Andrew Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) Stuart Andrew Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Stuart Andrew Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab) Chris Elmore Westminster) (Con) Suella Braverman (Fareham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) Chris Elmore Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab) Jack Brereton (Stoke-on-Trent South) Stuart Andrew Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Bridgen (North West Stuart Andrew Dr Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting) (Lab) Chris Elmore Leicestershire) (Con) Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab) Chris Elmore Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab) Chris Elmore Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South Stuart Andrew Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Owen Thompson West) (Con) Leith) (SNP) Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con) Stuart Andrew James Brokenshire (Old Bexley and Stuart Andrew Sidcup) (Con) Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab) Chris Elmore Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudon) Owen Thompson Edward Argar (Charnwood) (Con) Stuart Andrew (SNP) Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) Chris Elmore Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab) Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne Chris Elmore Sarah Atherton (Wrexham) (Con) Stuart Andrew East) (Lab) Victoria Atkins (Louth and Horncastle) Stuart Andrew Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Gareth Bacon (Orpington) (Con) Stuart Andrew Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab) Chris Elmore Kemi Badenoch (Saffron Walden) (Con) Stuart Andrew Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con) Stuart Andrew Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) Chris Elmore Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) Stuart Andrew Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) Stuart Andrew Steve Barclay (North East Stuart Andrew (Con) Cambridgeshire) (Con) Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP) Owen Thompson Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con) Stuart Andrew Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) Stuart Andrew Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Con) Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Margaret Beckett (Derby South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) Chris Elmore Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Lab) (Lab) Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) Chris Elmore Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con) Stuart Andrew Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) Owen Thompson Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew (SNP) Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) Stuart Andrew Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Owen Thompson (Con) Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP) Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sir Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Con) Chris Elmore Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Gregory Campbell (East Jim Shannon Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire Owen Thompson Londonderry) (DUP) South) (SNP) Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab) Chris Elmore Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) Owen Thompson Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Ben Lake (SNP) Shetland) (LD) Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con) Stuart Andrew 941 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 942

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con) Stuart Andrew Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) Stuart Andrew Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stuart Andrew (Con) Stocksbridge) (Con) Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con) Stuart Andrew op) Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) Ben Lake Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con) Stuart Andrew (LD) Mims Davies (Mid Sussex) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) Chris Elmore Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and Owen Thompson Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con) Stuart Andrew West Fife) (SNP) Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Stuart Andrew Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Chris Elmore Howden) (Con) Southgate) (Lab) Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) Stuart Andrew Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) Owen Thompson (Con) (SNP) Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Owen Thompson Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Stuart Andrew Falkirk) (SNP) Rainham) (Con) Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) William Wragg Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Con) Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) Chris Elmore Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Feryal Clark (Enfield North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Simon Clarke (Middlesbrough South Stuart Andrew Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) Stuart Andrew and East Cleveland) (Con) (Con) Theo Clarke (Stafford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) Stuart Andrew Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) Stuart Andrew Leo Docherty (Aldershot) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Owen Thompson James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dunbartonshire) (SNP) Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con) Stuart Andrew Anneliese Dodds (Oxford East) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Stuart Andrew op) Wallington) (Con) Sir Jeffrey M Donaldson (Lagan Valley) Jim Shannon Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) Stuart Andrew (DUP) (Con) Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD) Ben Lake Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP) Owen Thompson Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab) Chris Elmore Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Owen Thompson Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract Chris Elmore Cumnock) (SNP) and Castleford) (Lab) Ms Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) Stuart Andrew Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Con) Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire) Stuart Andrew Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Robert Courts (Witney) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Chris Elmore Penarth) (Lab) Claire Coutinho (East Surrey) (Con) Stuart Andrew Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab) Chris Elmore Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP) Owen Thompson Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Stuart Andrew Devon) (Con) Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con) Stuart Andrew Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Chris Elmore Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) Chris Elmore Southwark) (Lab) (Lab) Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) Stuart Andrew Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton Owen Thompson James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend Stuart Andrew East) (SNP) East) (Con) Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab) Chris Elmore Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab) Chris Elmore Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con) Stuart Andrew David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con) Stuart Andrew Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) Stuart Andrew Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Stuart Andrew (Con) Woodford Green) (Con) Jon Cruddas (Dagenham and Rainham) Chris Elmore Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab) Chris Elmore John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab) Chris Elmore Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) Chris Elmore Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab) Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Colum Eastwood (Foyle) (SDLP) Ben Lake Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew James Daly (Bury North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Stuart Andrew Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD) Ben Lake Dinefwr) (Ind) Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab) Chris Elmore Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con) Stuart Andrew 943 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 944

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Stuart Andrew Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Whitby) (Con) Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Michael Gove (Surrey Heath) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) Stuart Andrew Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP) Owen Thompson (Con) Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Stuart Andrew Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Weald) (Con) op) Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP) Owen Thompson Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) Stuart Andrew Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Damian Green (Ashford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) Chris Elmore Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Stuart Andrew Sarah Green (Chesham and Amersham) Ben Lake Crayford) (Con) (LD) Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Stuart Andrew Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Downs) (Con) Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale Ben Lake Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab) Chris Elmore (LD) Kate Griffiths (Burton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance) Ben Lake James Grundy (Leigh) (Con) Stuart Andrew Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) Stuart Andrew Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Stuart Andrew (Con) Hamilton West) (Ind) Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) Chris Elmore Colleen Fletcher (Coventry North East) Chris Elmore (Lab) (Lab) Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab) Chris Elmore Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con) Stuart Andrew Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con) Stuart Andrew Luke Hall (Thornbury and Yate) (Con) Stuart Andrew Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) Chris Elmore (Lab) Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP) Owen Thompson Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con) Stuart Andrew Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab) Chris Elmore Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP) Ben Lake Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con) Stuart Andrew Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West Chris Elmore Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) Chris Elmore and Hessle) (Lab) (Lab) Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Chris Elmore Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Peckham) (Lab) Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Stuart Andrew Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con) Stuart Andrew Wickford) (Con) Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Lucy Frazer (South East Cambridgeshire) Stuart Andrew Rebecca Harris (Castle Point) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Trudy Harrison (Copeland) (Con) Stuart Andrew George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) Stuart Andrew (Con) Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Stuart Andrew Pembrokeshire) (Con) Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) Stuart Andrew (Con) Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Chris Elmore Norwood) (Lab) Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Stuart Andrew Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con) Stuart Andrew Deepings) (Con) Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sir Oliver Heald (North East Stuart Andrew Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con) Stuart Andrew Hertfordshire) (Con) Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con) Stuart Andrew John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) Chris Elmore Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Stuart Andrew (Lab) Littlehampton) (Con) James Heappey (Wells) (Con) Stuart Andrew Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Owen Thompson Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con) Stuart Andrew Arran) (SNP) Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Stuart Andrew Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sheppey) (Con) Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Preet Kaur Gill (Birmingham, Edgbaston) Chris Elmore Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Owen Thompson (Lab/Co-op) and Strathspey) (SNP) Paul Girvan (South Antrim) (DUP) Jim Shannon Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con) Stuart Andrew John Glen (Salisbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con) Stuart Andrew 945 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 946

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) Chris Elmore Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) Ben Lake Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Stuart Andrew Atcham) (Con) Dame Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab) Chris Elmore Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Chris Elmore Sunderland West) (Lab) Gillian Keegan (Chichester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Richard Holden (North West Stuart Andrew Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles Chris Elmore Durham) (Con) South) (Lab) Kate Hollern (Blackburn) (Lab) Chris Elmore Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) Stuart Andrew Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab) Chris Elmore Adam Holloway (Gravesham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con) Stuart Andrew Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con) Stuart Andrew Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP) Owen Thompson Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab) Chris Elmore Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab) Chris Elmore John Howell (Henley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con) Stuart Andrew John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh Stuart Andrew Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) Stuart Andrew and Selkirk) (Con) (Con) Robert Largan (High Peak) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Border) Stuart Andrew Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP) Owen Thompson Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kim Leadbeater (Batley and Spen) (Lab) Chris Elmore Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrea Leadsom (South Stuart Andrew Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) Chris Elmore Northamptonshire) (Con) (Lab) Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Ian Levy (Blyth Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Alister Jack (Dumfries and Galloway) Stuart Andrew Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD) Ben Lake Andrew Lewer (Northampton South) Stuart Andrew Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con) Stuart Andrew Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Stuart Andrew Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Hampshire) (Con) Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Stuart Andrew Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and Stuart Andrew Essex) (Con) West Somerset) (Con) Mark Jenkinson (Workington) (Con) Stuart Andrew David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP) Owen Thompson Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood) Stuart Andrew Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) Jim Shannon Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con) Stuart Andrew Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Stuart Andrew Ruislip) (Con) Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Stuart Andrew Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Hykeham) (Con) (Lab) Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Chris Elmore Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Hull North) (Lab) Julia Lopez (Hornchurch and Upminster) Stuart Andrew Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab) Chris Elmore Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) Stuart Andrew (Con) David Johnston (Wantage) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con) Stuart Andrew Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Stuart Andrew Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con) Stuart Andrew Shoreham) (Con) Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Chris Elmore (Green) Rhymney) (Lab) Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) Chris Elmore Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con) Stuart Andrew 947 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 948

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Chris Elmore Gagan Mohindra (South West Stuart Andrew Morden) (Lab) Hertfordshire) (Con) Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab) Chris Elmore Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) Owen Thompson Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow Owen Thompson Damien Moore (Southport) (Con) Stuart Andrew South) (SNP) Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Owen Thompson Layla Moran (Oxford West and Ben Lake Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP) Abingdon) (LD) John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South Chris Elmore Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) Chris Elmore East) (Lab) (Lab) Conor McGinn (St Helens North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) Stuart Andrew Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con) Stuart Andrew David Morris (Morecambe and Stuart Andrew Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Chris Elmore Lunesdale) (Con) Tyne North) (Lab) Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab) Chris Elmore Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) Stuart Andrew Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Jill Mortimer (Hartlepool) (Con) Stuart Andrew Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) Owen Thompson Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) Stuart Andrew (SNP) (Con) Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Kieran Mullan (Crewe and Nantwich) Stuart Andrew Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Chris Elmore (Con) Royton) (Lab) Holly Mumby-Croft (Scunthorpe) (Con) Stuart Andrew Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab) Chris Elmore David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale Stuart Andrew John McNally (Falkirk) (SNP) Owen Thompson and Tweeddale) (Con) Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan Owen Thompson Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab) Chris Elmore an Iar) (SNP) James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con) Stuart Andrew op) Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Stuart Andrew Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Chris Elmore Cornwall) (Con) Neston) (Lab) Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) Stuart Andrew Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Chris Elmore (Con) Barr) (Lab) Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab) Chris Elmore Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Chris Elmore Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) Stuart Andrew Ladywood) (Lab) (Con) Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) Chris Elmore Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Owen Thompson (Lab) Renfrewshire North) (SNP) Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) Stuart Andrew Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con) Stuart Andrew Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con) Stuart Andrew Julie Marson (Hertford and Stortford) Stuart Andrew John Nicolson (Ochil and South Owen Thompson (Con) Perthshire) (SNP) Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Stuart Andrew Christian Matheson (City of Chester) Chris Elmore Southampton North) (Con) (Lab) Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Stuart Andrew Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con) Stuart Andrew Herefordshire) (Con) Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con) Stuart Andrew Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Stuart Andrew Co-op) Cleveleys) (Con) Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Owen Thompson Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) ( LD) Ben Lake Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and Stuart Andrew Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Chris Elmore East Thurrock) (Con) Central) (Lab) Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) Chris Elmore Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Chris Elmore Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con) Stuart Andrew Thamesmead) (Lab) Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP) Owen Thompson Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab) Chris Elmore Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Chris Elmore Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) Jim Shannon 949 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 950

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) Ben Lake Priti Patel (Witham) (Con) Stuart Andrew (PC) Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) Stuart Andrew Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Paul Scully (Sutton and Cheam) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con) Stuart Andrew Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) Stuart Andrew Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Naz Shah (Bradford West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Chris Elmore Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Woolwich) (Lab) Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con) Stuart Andrew John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) Chris Elmore Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab) Chris Elmore Co-op) Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Chris Elmore Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) Stuart Andrew Sunderland South) (Lab) (Con) Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP) Owen Thompson Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con) Stuart Andrew Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) Chris Elmore Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Chris Elmore (Lab) Devonport) (Lab/Co-op) David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood Stuart Andrew Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and Peter Aldous and Pinner) (Con) North Ipswich) (Con) Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con) Stuart Andrew Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab) Chris Elmore Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) Owen Thompson Co-op) Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) Chris Elmore Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Anum Qaisar-Javed (Airdrie and Shotts) Owen Thompson Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con) Stuart Andrew (SNP) Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab) Chris Elmore Will Quince (Colchester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Royston Smith (Southampton, Itchen) Stuart Andrew Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) Chris Elmore (Lab) Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab) Chris Elmore John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Amanda Solloway (Derby North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab) Chris Elmore John Spellar (Warley) (Lab) Chris Elmore Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) Chris Elmore Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Stuart Andrew (Lab) Weybridge) (Con) Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Chris Elmore Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Hyde) (Lab) Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) Chris Elmore Nicola Richards (West Bromwich East) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) Owen Thompson Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con) Stuart Andrew (SNP) Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Ind) Stuart Andrew Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) Stuart Andrew Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North Stuart Andrew Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP) Jim Shannon East) (Con) Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con) Stuart Andrew John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Ben Lake Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) Stuart Andrew Easter Ross) (LD) (Con) Sir Gary Streeter (South West Devon) Stuart Andrew Dean Russell (Watford) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Chris Elmore Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op) Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Gary Sambrook (Birmingham, Stuart Andrew Graham Stringer (Blackley and Chris Elmore Northfield) (Con) Broughton) (Lab) 951 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote20 JULY 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 952

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) Stuart Andrew Dr Jamie Wallis (Bridgend) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) David Warburton (Somerset and Frome) Stuart Andrew Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) Stuart Andrew Rishi Sunak (Richmond (Yorks)) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con) Stuart Andrew Giles Watling (Clacton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) Stuart Andrew Suzanne Webb (Stourbridge) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Claudia Webbe (Leicester East) (Ind) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Sir Robert Syms (Poole) (Con) Stuart Andrew Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Chris Elmore Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Green) (Lab) Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Owen Thompson Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) Chris Elmore (Lab) Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con) Stuart Andrew Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) Stuart Andrew Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore (Con) op) Mrs Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) Stuart Andrew Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Chris Elmore Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Test) Chris Elmore Finsbury) (Lab) (Lab) Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) Owen Thompson Edward Timpson (Eddisbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew (SNP) Kelly Tolhurst (Rochester and Strood) Stuart Andrew Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con) Stuart Andrew John Whittingdale (Malden) (Con) Stuart Andrew Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon- Stuart Andrew Tweed) (Con) Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con) Stuart Andrew Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) Stuart Andrew Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC) Ben Lake (Con) Gavin Williamson (Montgomeryshire) Stuart Andrew Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD) Ben Lake Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) Chris Elmore Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP) Jim Shannon (Lab) Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab) Chris Elmore Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) Owen Thompson Mr Shailesh Vara (North West Stuart Andrew (SNP) Cambridgeshire) (Con) Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) Stuart Andrew Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Matt Vickers (Stockton South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab) Chris Elmore Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con) Stuart Andrew Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) Stuart Andrew Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston Stuart Andrew Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab) Chris Elmore North) 287WH 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 288WH

baseline for the progress was low in comparison with Westminster Hall other countries, such as Sweden, and that there is still a “worrying” level of variation in the quality of care. On Tuesday 20 July 2021 stillbirth, the report from the expert panel notes: “The Department has achieved the interim target of a 20% reduction earlier than the 2020 deadline. However, increased [JAMES GRAY in the Chair] efforts are required to meet the final target” of a halving in 2025. On neonatal deaths, the report Reducing Baby Loss states: Virtual participation in proceedings commenced “Good progress has been made towards achieving a (Order, 25 February). 50% reduction…by 2025. However,it has been difficult to determine the full extent of the Government’s progress due to a change in [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] the measure of progress against the National Maternity Ambition on neonatal deaths, with concerns expressed about the validity 9.25 am and unintended consequences of this change. This change in measuring progress has potentially inflated the achievement in James Gray (in the Chair): I start with a few parish the data analysed and may inadvertently exclude extremely pre-term notices, as it were. First, we do all continue to wear a babies from the on-going national efforts to improve neonatal mask, apart from when we are speaking. Secondly, I am outcomes. We encourage the Department to continue to measure told that we are now allowed to intervene, if we are and drive progress towards reducing mortality in both the population physically in the room, on one another, although perhaps of babies born before and after 24-weeks’ gestation.” we want to keep such interventions to a relatively minimal On maternal deaths, the report concludes: number. Thirdly, let me remind those who are with us “No discernible progress has been made towards reducing the virtually—welcome to you all—that you have to remain 2010 rate of maternal deaths by 50% by 2025”, in the room with your television camera on throughout. which I find alarming. It continues: You cannot turn the TV camera off and go off for a cup “The factors contributing to maternal deaths are predominantly of coffee; you have to be here in the debate throughout— indirect, such as existing disease, and therefore complex to address. from beginning to end. Tackling the causes of maternal death will require concerted efforts, with a focus on pre-conception interventions and improved Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): I post-natal support, particularly relating to mental health support…In beg to move, addition, the worsening disparity in risk of maternal death for women from minority ethnic and socio-economically deprived That this House has considered progress towards the national backgrounds needs to be urgently addressed.” ambition to reduce baby loss. On pre-term births, the report acknowledges that Sir James, it is a pleasure— “this target was only added to the National Ambition in 2017. Therefore, the window for newly introduced measures to impact James Gray (in the Chair): Order. I regret to say I am on the data is very narrow…While the initiatives currently being not Sir James—perhaps one day. I am just Mr Gray. implemented by the Department are welcomed, we anticipate that increased efforts will be required to counteract the setbacks to Cherilyn Mackrory: Thank you, Mr Gray. I had just reducing pre-term” promoted you. It is a pleasure to serve under your deaths arising from the COVID-19 pandemic. chairmanship. Great strides have been made in this vitally important The ambition is to halve the rate of stillbirths and space, and it is important to acknowledge that, but neonatal deaths by 2025 and to have achieved a there is still more to do. Last week, I had the pleasure of 20% reduction in these rates by now. Every day in the speaking to some members of our excellent midwifery UK, about 14 babies die before, during or soon after team at the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Treliske, in their birth. Baby deaths need to fall much faster if the Truro. Because of continuing covid restrictions, that Government’s national maternity safety ambition is to was conducted remotely, and it was a bittersweet meeting meet that important target. The ambition also includes for me, not least because the tech let me down after halving maternal deaths and brain injuries in babies about 20 minutes. I had a conversation with the fabulous that occur during or soon after birth by 2025, and consultant obstetrician, Karen Watkins, who was able reducing the pre-term birth rate from 8% to 6% by 2025. to tell me how things were going at Treliske and what Earlier this month, the Health and Social Care further things the team felt needed to be done to accelerate Committee published its report about maternity safety. the national ambition. I co-chair the all-party parliamentary group on baby It was Karen who had delivered the shattering news loss with the Chair of the Health and Social Care to my husband and me that our baby could not be Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for South saved, that she would have no chance of life. It was West Surrey (Jeremy Hunt). The Select Committee report Karen who performed the procedure to humanely end echoes much of what we have been hearing from hospital Lily’s life—the most frightening point of mine. Last trusts, health professionals, bereavement charities, bereaved week, I had the privilege of thanking her, as face to face families and others throughout our work in the APPG. as we could get online, for her kindness, compassion I pay tribute to everybody who speaks out on this most and professionalism in such devastating circumstances. upsetting of topics. It is a crucial issue on which we Not everybody gets the chance to do that. The entire must all work together to achieve success. bereavement midwifery team at Treliske are outstanding, The Select Committee report notes that progress and I continue to be in awe of our local team, of how towards reducing the rate of stillbirths and neonatal they do such a difficult job, are able to support families deaths has been “impressive”, with its external expert at their lowest ebb, and continue to take special care of panel rating it as good, although it notes that the our babies after they have died. 289WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 290WH

[Cherilyn Mackrory] The Healthcare Safety Investigation Branch has taken considerable steps to improve family engagement but The impact of covid on those issues seems to be a must continue to pursue improvements in that area. mixed bag, which is against the expectation. There was Fourthly, on clinician confidence, this is related to the a peak in stillbirth and neonatal death in March 2020 earlier point about training, but is also about giving and another in January 2021. Our team in Cornwall clinicians the confidence to report issues without worry. points to a slow and steady decline in the numbers since I welcome the Government’s proposal to review clinical 2010. This year, there have been two stillbirths so far. In negligence in the NHS more broadly. Elements of the a so-called usual year, there would have been between rapid resolution and redress scheme have been implemented, eight and 12 by now. It is difficult to commend this but the scheme has not yet been implemented in full. figure, however, as the team do not yet really know what Until it is, there is a high risk that the fundamental to attribute it to, apart from natural peaks and troughs. changes needed to improve the safety of maternity It could be a temporary irregularity; more research will services may fail to be achieved. need to be done to see whether we can find a pattern. Fifthly, carer continuity is close to my heart. I am a This is no comfort at all to the two Cornish families huge advocate for this, and it has been shown to improve who have suffered that unbearable loss. the outcomes of those who currently have the worst The APPG has heard evidence from the sector about outcomes. I would like to ensure that those involved in how covid has exacerbated existing inequalities. Inequality delivering carer continuity have received the appropriate is the biggest issue that needs to be tackled to reduce the training, and that all professionals are competent and number of babies dying and to improve maternity safety. trained in all the work they are able to do, particularly The Health and Social Care Committee report highlights in relation to black mothers, where the disparities are the need to tackle “unacceptable inequalities in outcomes”. the greatest. Carer continuity helps to point out other The report by the health and social care expert panel issues that might not be specifically or medically looked report notes that for such as domestic violence. “improvements in rates of stillbirths and neonatal deaths are Sixthly, we need more research. If a baby dies at term, good but are not shared equally among all women and babies. the parents ask why, and often there is no answer. I Babies from minority ethnic or socioeconomically deprived backgrounds continue to be at significantly greater risk of perinatal would like to see more money put into research and death than their white or less deprived peers.” development so that we can understand more about this horrific phenomenon. There is more to say, and I am It is fair to say that mums and babies should not be at sure colleagues will add to the discussion today. I thank an unfair risk just because of their background. the Minister for her continued support in this area, and The Select Committee’s recommendation that the I know she is listening. Government introduce a target to end the disparity in Group B strep is the most common cause of life- maternal and neonatal outcomes, with a clear timeline threatening infection in newborn babies, causing a range for achieving that target, is exactly right. Work must be of serious infections including pneumonia, meningitis done urgently to identify a suitable target and ways to and sepsis. evidence the gap closing nationally, supported by the evidence of progress locally. The target must aim to Screening could save 50 babies a year, and protect a achieve equity among all groups and ensure that those further 70 from life-changing issues. Our Minister has who currently have the least good outcomes have the been a force in trying to ensure that all women can ask best outcomes. for the group B strep screening and that all hospital trusts can offer it. What needs to be done? I have taken it down to five or six points. First, on staffing, action is needed to We have just passed the halfway point in this important address staffing shortfalls in maternity services. At a journey to 2025, and I would like to thank all the minimum, we need nearly 500 more obstetricians and healthcare professionals who have contributed to the nearly 2,000 more midwives. I welcome the recent increase successes so far. I call on the Government to work with in funding for the maternity workforce, but there will them to achieve the rest and save as many lives as need to be further funding commitments to deliver the possible in the future. safe staffing levels that expectant mothers should receive. In Cornwall, when Karen Watkins started 14 years ago, 9.36 am there were eight consultant obstetricians. Today, there Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab) [V]: It is a are still eight. None of them are dedicated bereavement pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Gray. I obstetricians, and staff need to take on this role as part congratulate the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth of their existing duties. (Cherilyn Mackrory) on securing this timely and important Secondly,on training, the 2016 maternity safety training debate, and on continuing to campaign on these issues. fund has delivered positive outcomes. More funding is Her bravery in sharing her story is inspiring, and the required to embed ongoing and sustainable access to work of the APPG should be commended. I agree with training for all maternity staff, given changes in the all her final points wholeheartedly. I was contacted by a practice, developments on how to deliver safely and number of constituents before today’sdebate,and hundreds aspects related to covid-19. Funding for backfill cover of people over the past year have shared harrowing when training takes place is also desirable. stories of their own experiences of baby loss and Thirdly, on parent involvement, after a patient safety miscarriage. I would like to thank all those who are incident, too often families are not provided with the campaigning for change. appropriate, timely and compassionate support that The overwhelming feeling from all of those I have they deserve. Involving families in a compassionate spoken to is that baby loss, like many other women’s manner is a crucial part of the investigation process. health issues, still does not receive the attention, research 291WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 292WH or funding it deserves and so desperately needs. As a that Ministers feel unable to fund a similar inquiry into result, not nearly enough progress is being made. As the the deaths of Asian and Asian British babies, and I call hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth mentioned, every on the Minister to look at that again. day in the UK, around 14 babies die before, during or For too long, baby loss has not received the focus it soon after birth. An estimated one in four pregnancies deserves, and it is dismissed all too often as an inevitability. end in loss during pregnancy or birth. These statistics Only by properly tracking baby loss will we be able to are difficult to read, but what is much, much worse is break the taboo, properly address the inequalities in the fact that many of these deaths are preventable. health outcomes, and ensure that we have a foolproof According to the recent report by the Health and Social strategy to reach our 2025 ambitions and improve outcomes. Care Committee, 1,000 more babies a year would survive For those going through baby loss or still living with the in England’s maternity services if those services were as trauma of prior experiences, progress cannot come safe Sweden’s. soon enough. While it is good to hear about improvements that have been made, my constituents and those who have 9.42 am experienced baby loss or miscarriage are more concerned Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure about what more needs to be done to reduce the numbers to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I pay experiencing loss, especially when the Committee’s report tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and has shown that we are far from meeting our 2025 Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) for securing the debate. ambitions.Services are seriously overstretched, underfunded Her personal story, which she bravely told today and in and understaffed, and huge health inequalities in perinatal a previous and moving Westminster Hall debate, has outcomes remain unaddressed. If we are to buck this shone a spotlight on the pain and anguish faced by trend, the Government need to take the opportunity to parents who suffer the tragedy of baby loss. reset and refocus perinatal services across England on meaningful and long-lasting transformation. Almost 60,000 babies were born prematurely in 2019, with one in five pregnancies ending in miscarriage during To begin this transformation and to ensure it results the same period. The effects of miscarriage, stillbirths in meaningful change for all women, we need immediately and neonatal deaths are devastating for parents, with to introduce enhanced data collection and sharing of all impacts that can and do last a lifetime. It is essential adverse perinatal outcomes. During my Adjournment that the Government continue with their 2015 ambition debate earlier this year on the findings of The Lancet to reduce the rate of stillbirths, neonatal deaths and series, “Miscarriage matters”, the Minister committed maternal deaths in England by 50% by 2030. I welcome to include the report’s recommendation to record every the provision in the NHS Long Term Plan to bring miscarriage in England in the Government’s women’s forward that ambition to 2025. Tothis end, the Government health strategy. This is a huge win for campaigners and announced only this month, on 4 July, that they were a really welcome step, which I hope will come to fruition making an additional £2.45 million available for NHS very soon. maternity staff in order to improve safety in care settings. However, we must ensure that there is consistent data As the son of an NHS community midwife, I know collection on all adverse perinatal outcomes, including the care, dedication and effort that our amazing midwives, brain injury,and on loss during pregnancy before 24 weeks’ such as the incredible team serving my community in gestation. We must also ensure that all perinatal deaths Darlington, put into their vocation. They are on the are recorded within a 24-hour period, rather than the frontline of safety, bringing new life into the world, and seven-day period that we currently have, to allow for all too often they are at the side of parents who have more accurate and timely data collection. suffered the worst loss imaginable. We must ensure that Finally, and most importantly, we must ensure that our midwives are provided with the skills to give the data are consistently collected on ethnicity and social most appropriate care to parents at their time of factors in pregnancy and the post-natal period, so that bereavement. we can identify groups whose outcomes are worse than In Darlington, I recently met Claudia and her husband, the average and set more robust targets. We know from Andy, who have suffered two late-term losses—first, at the available data that stillbirth rates for black and 20 weeks of pregnancy and, more recently, at 18 weeks. black British babies are twice as high than those for Although Claudia was thankfully entitled to statutory white babies, and that the rates for Asian and Asian sick leave to recover, Andy was not entitled to leave and British babies are 1.6 times higher than those for white had to negotiate with his employers to take time off. I babies. Stillbirth rates for babies from the most deprived am thankful to the two of them for meeting me to talk families are 1.7 times higher than those for the least about their experience, the impact of those losses and deprived. the challenges they have faced. I am glad that they have It is deeply upsetting that we still have no evidence-based continued to work with me to gather information and interventions to reduce the risks that black, Asian and understand the patchwork of provision by UK companies socioeconomically disadvantaged women face. I think whose employees suffer miscarriages. For the sake of we can all agree that we need a strategy in place to end Claudia and Andy, I am hopeful that the threshold for the disparity in maternal and neonatal outcomes, but statutory bereavement leave will be revisited. The impact without available data on specific targets, we do not of a loss in the second trimester will almost always be stand a hope of reducing the inequalities. Consistent just as painful, devastating and hard to overcome as a data must be recorded and made accessible, so that loss in the third trimester. collectively we can sound the alarm and set specific, Another constituent, Angela, has shared her tragic tailored targets and strategies for meeting them. Although story with me. Angela suffered two ectopic pregnancies I welcome the forthcoming confidential inquiry into the and two miscarriages, and now feels that she will never deaths of black and black British babies, I am disappointed experience one of the most natural things in the world: 293WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 294WH

[Peter Gibson] “During the inspections, several serious concerns were identified. For example, risk assessments which women were expected to the honour of giving birth. Angela described to me that have undertaken during their care were not always completed in she feels crushed, and would like to see more support line with national guidance. Staff did not always use a nationally recognised tool to identify women at risk of deterioration. n for people in her position than was available to her in addition, the service did not always have enough midwifery staff the first years of the 2000s. with the right qualifications, skills, training and experience to Improving maternity safety, delivering personalised keep women safe from avoidable harm and to provide the right care and improving training will all help to improve care and treatment. Managers regularly reviewed and adjusted outcomes for future expectant parents across the UK. I staffing levels and skill mix but were limited to the resources sincerely hope that a future review of bereavement leave available. Following this inspection, maternity services at Nottingham City Hospital and Queen’s Medical Centre are rated Inadequate will be extended to those parents who suffer a miscarriage overall. The services are rated Inadequate for being safe, effective in the second trimester of pregnancy. I look forward to and well-led. Maternity services were previously rated Requires hearing from the Minister what more the Government Improvement.” are doing to achieve our national ambition to reduce The worst thing about the situation is that it did not baby loss. need to be like this. When I read Gary and Sarah I am thankful that the Government have taken and Andrews’s account of Wynter’s death, I felt sick—not are taking firm action towards reaching the 2025 ambition just because it is tragic and heart-breaking for anyone that will reduce the number of future parents experiencing to lose a much wanted baby, but because there were the pain that Angela, Claudia, Andy and my hon. striking similarities to an earlier case. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth have My constituents Jack and Sarah Hawkins’s daughter experienced. was born dead at Nottingham City Hospital in April 2016. 9.46 am Harriet was a healthy, full-term baby. She died as a result of a mismanaged labour. The trust initially claimed Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I would that her death was caused by an infection. Jack and like to focus on the progress towards safe births at my Sarah were told to “try to move on.” It was only thanks local trust. I wish I did not need to speak in this debate; to their incredible courage and determination to fight I wish that Nottingham’s hospitals, Queen’s Medical for the truth that the trust was finally forced to admit Centre and Nottingham City Hospital, were safe places gross negligence. to have a baby. That is what parents in my constituency need and have a right to expect. But right now, that is I sat with Jack and Sarah in a meeting with the trust’s not what they are guaranteed, as the trust’s chief executive then chief executive, with photos of Jack, Sarah and admitted a few weeks ago: their dead daughter on the table in front of us. He “We fully accept that, although our staff are passionate about apologised and promised that the trust would learn the what they do, we have not created an environment where these lesson. Following the coroner’sverdict in Wynter Andrews’s same staff can provide a positive and safe experience for every case, I read the comments from senior staff at the trust, family in their care, every time.” apologising and promising to learn the lessons. They A recent investigation by The Independent and “Channel 4 were the exact same promises that I had heard more News” found that since 2010, there have been 201 clinical than three years earlier. negligence claims against the trust’s maternity services— Gary and Sarah Andrews wrote to me in March. almost half lodged in the past four years. In those They said: claims are 15 deaths, 19 stillbirths, 46 cases of brain “All we want is for other parents to be taking their children damage and 18 cases of cerebral palsy. The trust has home.” already paid out £79.3 million in compensation but, of They, Jack, Sarah and other parents are calling for a course, the human costs are much higher. public inquiry into maternity services at Nottingham In September 2019, Wynter Sophia Andrews was University Hospital Trust. I am sure that the Minister born at the QMC. She died 23 minutes later. It was only will tell me, and them, to put their faith in the Care after the healthcare safety investigation branch’s findings Quality Commission and the Healthcare Safety were published that the trust admitted failings and that Investigation Branch, but they do not share her confidence earlier intervention would have avoided Wynter’s death. that that will be effective. In Harriet’s case, there were Wynter’s death was the subject of an inquest, and in her numerous investigations, both internal and external, verdict the coroner was highly critical of Nottingham but things did not change or did not change enough. University Hospitals NHS Trust. The coroner said that Wynter would have survived if action had been taken As the Health and Social Care Committee report sooner. I will not read the detailed quote from the notes, coroner, but she said that the incident reports and staff “Involving families…is a crucial part of the investigation accounts demonstrate that process…Families must be confident that their voices are heard and that lessons have been learnt to prevent the tragedy they have “this was not an isolated incident. An unsafe culture had been endured being repeated.” allowed to develop as these systemic issues had not been adequately addressed by the leadership team.” When I met the CQC investigation team in April, I was During the inquest, it also emerged that a letter from shocked to hear that they have not contacted bereaved maternity staff at the trust was sent to the hospital parents or sought to hear their views. They claimed to board in 2018 asking for help and raising serious concerns be unaware of Harriet Hawkins’s case. about safety. When I raised concerns with the Minister, her reply Following the coroner’sreport, NUH maternity services contained the news that NHS England, NHS Improvement were subject to unannounced inspections by the Care and the clinical commissioning group are Quality Commission, which published its report last “finalising the terms of reference for an independent thematic December. The inspector said: review of maternity cases going back to 2016”. 295WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 296WH

As Jack Hawkins told me, this has happened without There are huge inequalities in the experience of maternal any input from families. The review was due to go back mortality and baby loss that have gone unaddressed to only 2016, although we know there were manyimproperly for too long. Babies from minority ethnic and investigated baby deaths and harmed babies before socioeconomically deprived backgrounds remain at an then. That is why they want a truly independent review, increased risk of death: if a woman is black or poor, it is not one where it is too easy to suggest that Nottingham more likely that she will die or that her baby will die, University Hospital Trust has a hand in it, and where which is absolutely unacceptable. In 2017, babies born parents of dead and damaged babies are ignored and to black or black British parents had a 67% increased excluded from the process of deciding what needs looking at. risk of neonatal death compared with babies of white I hope that when the Minister meets me and other ethnicity, and babies born to Asian parents had a MPs she will also hear from the parents affected by 72% increased risk of neonatal death compared with some of these tragic failures to improve maternity services babies of white ethnicity. The 2020 MBRRACE-UK at Nottingham University Hospital Trust. I look forward “Saving Lives, Improving Mothers’ Care” report shows to hearing her response both today and on that occasion. that the risk of maternal death in 2016 to 2018 continued to be four times higher among women from black 9.53 am ethnic minority backgrounds than among white women, Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab): It is a pleasure to and that that risk is twice as high for women from Asian serve under your chairship, Mr Gray, and to follow my backgrounds as it is for white women. hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood). I congratulate and thank the hon. Member The Office for National Statistics’ latest “Births and for Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) for securing infant mortality by ethnicity in England and Wales” this incredibly important debate. I am so sorry for her report, published in May this year,highlighted substantial loss but I thank her for her bravery in sharing it and for inequalities in infant mortality rates among black and her ongoing campaigning in this area. other ethnic minority groups. Some of this variation may be explained by other areas of inequality, including I also thank campaigning organisations, including deprivation, but the association between social deprivation the Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Society, Tommy’s and child mortality is clear, and there are modifiable and the Lullaby Trust, and all the members of the factors that can make a difference.This can be addressed—it Pregnancy and Baby Charities Network, as well as can be changed. I have raised this issue with NHS South bereavement organisations such as the Good Grief Trust West London Clinical Commissioning Group, and it for all they do to support parents and families and for must be addressed in partnership with those who have their continued campaigns for change. relevant lived experience and build on the knowledge of I thank all my constituents who have recently written specialist agencies in each area. to me about this important debate, underlining the reason for having this debate now and why we need to Two further issues that need action have been raised look again at the plan for the national ambition to with me by constituents. The first is miscarriage: a reduce baby loss and at progress towards that. I am constituent has raised with me the issue of access to certain that all Members present share my ambition information and support following a miscarriage, and that the UK should be the safest place in the world to Tommy’s is campaigning on this issue as well. I met with have a baby. However, as broken-hearted mothers and a constituent yesterday who told me that women in the fathers across the UK can testify, it is not, and that is UK have to endure three consecutive miscarriages before the reason for the debate today. they are referred for full investigation. She feels very There are stark inequalities: background makes a angry about this situation and how it has affected her difference, as well as where mothers have their babies. and women across the country. It is simply unacceptable That should not be case—the highest standards should for a couple to go through that much suffering and be equally available across our country. Recent reports uncertainty and for it not to be addressed until there from the Health and Social Care Committee, the Ockenden have been three miscarriages. review of maternity services at Shrewsbury and Telford Another issue is that of culture. We are talking a lot Hospital NHS Trust, the ongoing investigation at East today about funding: there is a need for increased Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust, and funding, for staffing in particular, but there is also the the devastating revelations from Nottingham University issue of culture, which was raised by my hon. Friend the Hospitals NHS Trust—which have been outlined by my Member for Nottingham South. One constituent wrote hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South—plainly to me to say that there had been a lack of investment demonstrate just how much more there is to do. over a long period of time and that that had played a Although huge strides have been made over the past big part in why the services are what they are today, but two decades, that progress has now plateaued and we she also wanted to highlight behavioural issues within need to know why and address this. In 2019, the neonatal maternity—with bullying and hostile attitudes among mortality rate in England and Wales was 2.8 deaths per members of staff. She said that trainees in obstetrics 1,000 live births, the same as it was in 2017—the third and gynaecology report a high rate of being undermined, consecutive year of no change. The latest statistics for higher than other medical specialities. neonatal mortality published by the World Bank rate the UK as the 37th country globally, making us one of It is also well known that, in some services, hostility the worst-performing countries in the developed world between midwives and obstetricians contributes to services in this area. As the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth being unsafe. These issues, not only about resources but highlighted, the recent report into progress on maternal about culture, need to be addressed and understood: mortality said that there needs to be a cultural shift. Reporting should be “No discernible progress has been made towards reducing the welcomed within NHS trusts, and change should result 2010 rate of maternal deaths by 50% by 2025.” from such reporting. 297WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 298WH

[Fleur Anderson] from minority ethnic or socioeconomically deprived backgrounds continue to be significantly at greater risk, I have some requests for the Minister today. First, I and as the charity Sands says in its report: underline the calls from Members earlier in the debate “Babies should not be at a higher risk of death simply because about the need for enhanced data collection and sharing. of their parents’ postcode, ethnicity or income.” What gets counted counts, and the first thing anyone I wish to raise a case on behalf of one of my constituents sitting down and looking at this area sees is that there today and to pay tribute to her. Can the Minister are big gaps. Secondly, there should be a review of the provide an update on the progress made since the impact of covid on our neonatal services. important debate on covid-19 and baby loss in November Thirdly, there should be a plan to increase staffing and outline the steps the Department is taking on levels; as has been outlined, we need to increase those. research and actions to make sure that nobody has to How much will they be increased by next year, the year go through what my constituent has experienced? after and the year after that, so we can achieve those My constituent is a health worker who became poorly 2025 levels? There needs to be action on ethnic disparity last year with covid, 36 weeks into her pregnancy. At and much more focus within every clinical commissioning 37 weeks, she attended hospital with reduced foetal group on why those differences exist, learning from movement, and her daughter was monitored for five each other and from best practice and building on that, hours. When she got to the delivery suite, her daughter with a change in culture where needed. had died. What additional measures is the Minister taking to The hospital completed an investigation and found achieve the national ambition to halve stillbirths, neonatal that there were many lessons to be learned. Policies and deaths, maternal deaths and brain injuries by 2025? As procedures were not correctly followed. My constituent we have seen in the debate and from the recent reports should have been reviewed by a senior consultant and and statistics, business as usual is not going to achieve was not. There were delays of hours in transferring her those aims at all. Will the Government commit to to the delivery suite due to low staffing levels. The publishing specific national targets before the end of cardiotocography traces showed that her daughter was 2022—earlier, ideally—that reflect a bold commitment in distress, but unfortunately at the time that was not to action on inequalities due to ethnicity and deprivation, acted upon or escalated. If it was, she would have been underpinned by specialist pathways and workstreams in taken for a caesarean section earlier in the day. every local maternity system? I close with the words of my constituent: I pay tribute to all the midwives working so hard “I have spoken to other women who have been in the same across our country for all that they have had to change position as me with covid at the same time but their hospitals have and go through in the last year, and to all the families acted fast and thankfully their babies have survived. I have also spoken to women in other areas who have sadly lost their babies affected by the issue. Ambition is all well and good, but because their hospitals did not act appropriately. A gold standard it needs to be matched by action and boldness. A lack of of care should be followed nationally. It should not be a postcode both is currently letting down parents and babies across lottery if your baby lives or dies.” the country and it has to change, starting today. 10.5 am 10.1 am Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Gray. It is an honour to Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab) [V]: It is an follow my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West honour to serve under your chairship, Mr Gray. I pay Derby (Ian Byrne), who spoke wholeheartedly on behalf tribute to the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth of his constituents. I thank the hon. Member for Truro (Cherilyn Mackrory) for securing this important debate, and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) for her courage for her incredibly moving contribution and for her work and compassion, and for her campaigning throughout. on baby loss. I also pay tribute to my constituents in She is an inspiration to so many women out there. Liverpool, West Derby who have been in touch to ask The last time we debated this subject, although it was me to speak today and raise their concerns, and to all in Westminster Hall, as opposed to here, we had a very those affected by the devastating loss of a baby. Nothing emotional debate on baby loss. It was Parliament at its I can say here can do justice to the heartbreak they have best. MPs from across the House brought their life been through, but I hope to do my best to raise some of experiences—and, yes, painful experiences—to benefit the issues that constituents have shared with me. the people we seek to serve. That is Parliament at It is truly heartbreaking that every day about 14 babies its best. in the UK die before, during or soon after birth. The This has been a painful year for many women and recent report by the Health and Social Care Committee families. We have heard from constituents who were notes the good progress made, but stresses the urgency forced to receive bad news apart, were unable to grieve with which actions must be taken to achieve the losses together or were even unable to hug a friend or a Government’s ambitions of reducing baby loss by 2025. loved one they saw in pain. Those of us who have The expert panel also raised serious concerns about experienced baby loss and miscarriages know the pain aspects of continuity of carer, personalised care and and anxiety that appointments and scans can cause. I safe staffing, and the Committee has made a series of remember breaking down into bits at just the first recommendations,includingforaGovernmentcommitment appointment. It was just a question-and-answer session to funding the maternity workforce at the level required with a midwife during my second pregnancy, but it can to deliver safe care to all mothers and their babies. be a horribly anxiety-provoking, triggering experience The report also states that the improvements in rates to go back to a place you have received bad news in the of stillbirth and neonatal deaths are good but are not past, let alone doing that during a pandemic. Many shared equally among all women and babies. Babies women this year have been robbed of the joys of pregnancy. 299WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 300WH

Although I have had two pregnancies that ended in Ernest has shown amazing strength after losing Mary miscarriage, I now speak from the fortunate position of to look after his two beautiful children. His campaign having a beautiful rainbow baby, which is the term used to see pregnant women prioritised for vaccination is for a baby following miscarriage or baby loss. That is a inspirational and one I wholeheartedly support, as do very different experience from before. I do not know the facts.Yet, throughout this year,and despite protestations how others have the strength to speak out while they are from Ernest and MPs such as my hon. Friend the still on that journey or without their rainbow. I know I Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) and others, would struggle; you are truly inspirational. the Government have failed to prioritise pregnant women It is because of that shared experience that I am for vaccination, relying on the Joint Committee on especially proud of the teams at Luton and Dunstable Vaccination and Immunisation recommendations. I feel University Hospital, who recognise the pain and stress the figures now show that that should change. I ask the this has caused. I thank the team at Luton and Dunstable Minister to commit that, should boosters be needed in for working with me and families to accommodate future, pregnant women will be some of the first to visitors at scans and appointments as soon as possible. I receive them, and that alongside that there will be an appreciate that they are under huge stress and pressure education and information programme targeted at pregnant during the pandemic, but the difference they make to women. families is priceless. Thank you to the sonographers, the Before we get to that stage, there is the issue about early pregnancy units, the admin staff, the midwives, the which my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam GPs and the consultants who have helped women through (Olivia Blake) has spoken so passionately from the this difficult year.You have gone above and beyond—thank heart: the ludicrously cruel requirement that women you. should suffer three losses before support is given specifically To fast-forward to just a few weeks ago, I met some for miscarriage and baby loss. Let that sink in. In 2021, of the brilliant midwife team at the L and D to talk we are asking women to go through such a physical, about the changes and the challenges of the future. One emotional and painful loss three times before they is always staffing. They are doing wonders, but to limit qualify for extra tests, or even early pregnancy support the burnout that this pandemic has caused, we need to in future pregnancies. How can that be right? ensure that we not only retain midwives but recruit I was lucky to receive extra help and access to some adequate numbers. NHS staff have experienced increased of those tests, but only because a consultant was kind stress and pressure, which would test even the toughest enough to count the losses that I had in the number of of heroes. Hospitals could delay some procedures and babies, rather than pregnancies. I am currently working surgeries, but as one midwife told me, people do not with a constituent in a similar situation. I am pleased to stop having babies. say that she is now accessing the support she needs, but We know how important continuity of care is to the that should be the norm; it should not be extraordinary. health of both mother and baby, so it would be great to Why are we making women and families go through get an update from the Minister on where we are on the such pain before they even get a simple blood test? It is target to improve continuity of care for women, especially cruel beyond belief. for black and Asian mothers, for whom the maternal Tosummarise my points: first, we should make pregnant health outcomes have been particularly poor. We have women a priority for covid-19 vaccines and ensure that heard that stillbirths have doubled for black women, they are prioritised for any subsequent boosters. Secondly, and Asian women are more than 1.6 times as likely to we need to recruit, retain and reward midwives to experience stillbirth. ensure that we have adequate numbers, while being I hope the Minister takes a serious look at the proposals honest about the scale of the challenge ahead of us. in the report of the Health and Social Care Committee, That leads on to point three about continuity of care. on which I sit. The Committee heard evidence from a We need to see continuity of care, prioritising those range of parents, grieving families and health experts. I who are most in need, particularly black mothers, who hope the Minister takes a serious look at the are four times more likely to die during childbirth. recommendations and takes steps to implement them. We must implement the recommendations in the One of the crucial recommendations is about having Health and Social Care Committee report. Many of my adequate levels of staffing. How many midwife vacancies colleagues on the Committee would have joined today’s are currently unfilled? How many do we need to train debate, but that Committee is sitting at the same time. I and retain in position to meet future challenges and pass on their apologies, knowing their strength of feeling targets on providing continuity of care to all mothers? and that we are united on those recommendations. To focus quickly on the pandemic, we know the Finally, we must end the requirement of three losses devastating impact that covid can have on pregnant before intervention and support is given to women. women. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Pregnancy can be a painful journey for far too many Gynaecologists released shocking statistics relating to women. Let us listen to women, end that cruel requirement pregnant women and covid. One in 10 pregnant women and support women through their joys and their losses, admitted to hospital with covid symptoms needed intensive and so improve the statistics on baby loss and miscarriage care. More than 100 pregnant women have been admitted for good. to hospital with covid-19 in the past two weeks. No pregnant women who have received both doses of the 10.13 am vaccination have been hospitalised since vaccination Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to programmes began. Those are startling statistics. see you back in your place again, Mr Gray, after the The Minister joined me to meet my constituent Ernest operations you have had. I am very pleased you are Boateng who lost his wife Mary more than a year ago, back in Westminster Hall. I thank the hon. Member for shortly after she contracted covid-19 and gave birth. Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) for leading 301WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 302WH

[Jim Shannon] When it comes to baby loss, hospitals do not have enough counselling services for parents who have suffered the debate. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member miscarriage, stillbirths and neonatal deaths. There need for Luton North (Sarah Owen) and the contributions to be more trained counsellors in our hospitals to act at from other hon. Members. immediate effect. Baby loss can be prevented through increased research. Again, I urge the Minster and her Very personal stories have been told, some of which Department to allocate funds for this. have been raised in earlier debates. That does not lessen the pain and heartache that we feel. I imagine the I am a person of faith, as hon. Members know, and I introduction was not easy for the hon. Member for believe it is important to have church representatives, be Truro and Falmouth, given the grief and tragedy she they leaders or those with pastoral abilities, to respond has had to deal with after the loss of her little baby last to people in hospital when they need it most. Has that year. As politicians, we often disagree—we can agree to been available for those who seek assurance at a particularly disagree and are given this platform to represent our difficult time? Life is precious. There is nothing more differing opinions. However, this issue has brought us valuable than the people we have around us and the loss together and it is heart-warming to discuss a topic that of a wee baby, who has not even had a chance at life, has touched us all in some form and enabled us to come occurs all too often. The Royal College of Midwives together. My mother had five miscarriages, my sister stated: lost three babies and the young girl who is the PPS in “Maternity and health services cannot do this alone, fantastic my office had two, so this issue is very real to myself. as their efforts are.” Estimates suggest that there are 250,000 miscarriages We must add more support to our health service on in the UK every year. One in five pregnancies miscarries baby loss. I am pleased to see the Minister, and look and there are 11,000 emergency admissions to hospital forward to her response to assure us on this issue. for ectopic pregnancies. Those figures sadly represent I very much appreciate the subject of this debate, the mothers, fathers, grannies and grandas who have which is suffered a heartbreaking loss. I stand here today as “the national ambition to reduce baby loss.” someone who has witnessed the effects that this can have on a family. I extend my sympathies to those who That ambition is shared by so many. I assure those have been faced with this in the past and those who going through the process that they are not alone. It is unfortunately will be in the future. so important that people realise that they are not alone and that many others out there are trying to help them The impact of baby loss is difficult enough and I have through those trials. Baby loss has touched the lives of no hesitation in saying that the covid-19 pandemic has so many, including mine. I am proud to stand here not made these situations any easier. I had multiple representing those who wish that those babies were with constituents contact me regarding hospital appointments us today—they will not be forgotten. I call on the and scans. They expressed concern that restrictions only Minister to commit more time and more financial support allowed an isolated appointment. A number of MPs—some to the national ambition to reduce baby loss. If we here and others not—have raised this issue with Ministers achieve that, we will have achieved a whole lot. and asked them to address it. It has always made me think of those who went through the tragedy of a miscarriage or pregnancy complications and, in some 10.20 am circumstances, went through it all alone. As an example, Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): I remember my mother. We had a shop in Ballywalter. It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Strangford My mother had a miscarriage and the next day she was (Jim Shannon). As many others have done, I thank the back in the shop working again. That is how things hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) happened in those days of long ago. for securing this important debate and for helping to I have heard multiple reports from those in my ensure that the issue remains firmly and high up on the constituency. One is a student midwife studying in political agenda. Glasgow. She said that although tests can sometimes Although health in Scotland is a devolved matter, not identify any major issue, having efficient staffing there is no diversion in our collective will across the UK levels and more adequate nurses and doctors allows to do all we can to reduce baby loss. In almost every staff to catch issues earlier. When responding, could the debate on baby loss that I have spoken in—all of them, Minster give some assurance and encouragement that I think—I have said that in the past, too many women staffing levels will be sufficient to ensure that there is have reported that they felt concerned about their unborn oversight and that these issues do not happen? An babies because, “Something just doesn’t feel right.” additional step that we as elected representatives can They go on to report that they have been dismissed and take is to ensure there is sufficient funding to employ have subsequently suffered a stillbirth. I have repeatedly more healthcare professionals, if this is what staff are made the fundamental point about stillbirth that women telling us they need—and the staff are telling us that. know their own bodies and that clinicians need to listen We need to respond to that. to them. If that were done routinely, some tragic baby This is not the responsibility of the Minster but to losses could be avoided. give the figures, the latest report has shown that the The devastating loss of a baby brings with it not just neonatal mortality rate—deaths in the first four weeks crushing grief for the bereaved parents and the wider of life—is the highest in Northern Ireland, when compared family, but a real social cost. We know that 50% of with England, Scotland and Wales. We have an issue marriages end in divorce, and that people are eight back home, which is a devolved matter that the Minister times more likely to divorce if they suffer the loss of a Robin Swann is directly looking at. child in any circumstances. Of course, the cost of divorce 303WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 304WH to society is well documented, as are the social and The Minister knows about the really interesting work personal costs for all those involved. We need to bear going on with regard to pre-eclampsia called placental those things in mind. growth factor testing, which can point us towards improving It is truly devastating when the worst happens and a the early detection and diagnosis of pre-eclampsia and baby is lost. High-quality bereavement care is very will save babies’ lives. Offering this test to every mother important. I am pleased that, alongside the UK has implications for lab capacity and other resources— Government, the Scottish Government are funding Sands resources are always more scarce than we would like—but UK—the Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Charity—to it compensates by reducing the demand on maternity develop national bereavement care pathways for different services in other ways. It offers the potential to reduce types of baby loss. I also have a sense that the culture in admission of expectant mums for suspected pre-eclampsia some quarters of dismissing pregnant women who report in lower risk women, as well as reducing unnecessary that something is not quite right is changing, and I in-patient monitoring tests. In the next few years, I hope really and truly hope that it is. People have talked a lot that we will be able to reduce a significant number of about figures today, but in recent years there has been stillbirths caused by pre-eclampsia through the use of some modest improvement in the stillbirth statistics, the PGLF testing for suspected cases. which is welcome. There is a long way for us to go, However, I am deeply concerned—as everyone else however, in understanding more about stillbirth and will be—that some of the very modest progress made in baby loss. recent years in tackling baby loss and stillbirth appears The Scottish Government have unveiled the women’s to have been reversed since the start of the pandemic. health plan to improve women’s health in the round. We This phenomenon has been noted in a number of countries have talked about how health inequalities inevitably across the world. St George’shospital in London highlighted affect outcome, so looking at women’s health in the a fourfold increase in stillbirths, and in Scotland, too, round is important. That would, of course, include there has been an increase since the March 2020 lockdown. maternity, neonatal and postnatal care. “The Best Start: Although stillbirth rates were lower than they have A Five Year Forward Plan for Maternity and Neonatal historically been, even during the lockdown, it is still Care” recommends that all women in Scotland receive very alarming that there has been a rise. To have suffered continuity of maternity and obstetric care. A number of a stillbirth during the pandemic while separated from hon. Members have spoken about that, particularly the the wider support of family and loved ones is truly hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth. That does help heartbreaking, and has made it all the worse. to improve outcomes for mother and baby. Experts are investigating the increase in stillbirths Any focus on reducing baby lost must consider pre- during lockdown, but we need to know the true cause. eclampsia, which is the most common of the serious Was it because expectant mums were more reluctant to complications of pregnancy. If we knew even more seek help? Was it caused directly by the effects of about that condition, we could save around 1,000 babies covid-19 on babies, or is there some other explanation? from stillbirth each year. The challenge that pre-eclampsia Regardless of the cause,this is a very worrying development. poses is that in its early stages, it has no symptoms. I We are all waiting on the publication of research on declare an interest: my baby son was stillborn on the that to see what can be learned to inform future care very day that he was due to be delivered because of an that is better and more responsive to women’s needs extreme form of pre-eclampsia called HELLP—hemolysis, during covid, which we must remember is still with us. elevated liver enzymes and low platelets—syndrome. I I am delighted that we have had this debate today on will not recount the details of baby Kenneth’s death this very important issue,and hope that wherever reductions again; I have done it several times in previous debates. in baby loss are made, the whole of the UK will share Kenneth would be coming up for his 12th birthday, and best practice and each part of the UK will learn from its I am now just getting to the point where I can talk other constituent parts, because expectant mothers and about it without automatically bursting into tears, so I families awaiting a new arrival should all be entitled to suppose that is progress for me. the safest possible delivery of their baby. As the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth pointed out, knowing why your baby has died is really important. 10.29 am Many bereaved parents find, just as I did, that the Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): It shutters come down when they ask the question why. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this is very hard to get answers and they are much more morning, Mr Gray. I thank the hon. Member for Truro likely to be fobbed off than to be given any explanation. and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory) for securing today’s I can testify to the impact of such treatment after your debate and the compelling way she spoke both today baby is stillborn, and it is beyond what any bereaved and in the debate last November. I was not present for parents should have to suffer. If there is anything that that debate, but I read it over the weekend. I never can make a stillbirth worse, it is that treatment of being thought that reading Hansard would bring a tear to my dismissed. eye, but the way that she and many other Members How can we honestly say that practitioners are seeking spoke in that debate was incredibly moving and powerful. to improve how they do things and how they improve Today, she said some very important things that we all outcomes if, when mistakes happen—as they inevitably need to reflect on. She talked about the staff who cared will at times—they too often appear to go unacknowledged? for her during her difficult times, and she used the Sadly, I have no reason to believe that that culture has words “kindness, compassion and professionalism”, which changed. In my case, all the signs of HELLP syndrome are absolutely the qualities that we need in our NHS were there, but they were missed by a series of clinicians. workforce in this particularly sensitive area. We should That very nearly also led to my own death from a all put on record our thanks to those who do incredible ruptured liver. work in incredibly difficult circumstances. 305WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 306WH

[Justin Madders] the review process. It seems to me that 2016 is an arbitrary date, and I encourage the Minister to engage The hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth also in a dialogue with parents to make sure that the scope mentioned the Select Committee report and noted that of the review is as wide as it can be. progress had been good, but it was from a low base. As My hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Fleur a number of Members said, variation still exists across Anderson) made an excellent speech, highlighting just the country. The hon. Member talked about her six how far we still have to go with obstetrics and how priorities. A number of Members talked about some of inequalities in outcomes still exist. She made the important them, but she set out clearly where we need to do more point that these issues need to be addressed in conjunction about staffing the shortfalls. She made an important with those who have experienced a loss. Parental point about providing not just training, but the back-filling involvement is a theme that has come through several of positions while staff go on training. She also made times today. She also made a very important point an important point about parents’ involvement and about the culture, which is not always the best for engagement with such issues, because those who have raising concerns and learning from past experiences. been through awful experiences have the best input to give us on how to make it a little easier for those who My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, West have to face it in the future. Derby (Ian Byrne) also mentioned continuity of care and the workforce challenge,something that most Members Clinician confidence to report issues was another raised. He said that postcode, ethnicity and income important point that several Members raised. It is important should not be telling factors in outcomes. He also told a that clinicians feel able to raise concerns and that they very moving story about one of his constituents, who are acted on, which does not always happen. Like most suffered their own loss. Unfortunately, it seems that the Members, the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth failings that were identified there will resonate with mentioned continuity of care and the importance of many trusts. more research. One of the things that parents want to know is why this happened to them. My hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) spoke incredibly movingly today, as she did in Lilian Greenwood: Each year, 1,200 babies are stillborn, the previous debate. She brought home how difficult it and a third of those die after a full-term pregnancy. We is for those who have successful subsequent pregnancies know how important coroners’ inquiries can be in getting still to have to deal with previous losses, which are still to the truth and preventing future deaths, but they are on their minds, as one would expect. Again, continuity currently unable to investigate stillbirths. Does my hon. of carers and workforce issues were raised. She made a Friend think it would be helpful if the Government now very important point about vaccines and the admissions responded to the 2019 consultation on extending coronial that we have seen in recent weeks of pregnant women powers to cover stillbirths, so that some of that important with covid. A very important point was put to the investigative work can contribute to attempts to reduce Minister about the priorities for booster jabs, which I the number of stillbirths in this country? hope she will address. The point my hon. Friend made most powerfully was about the three miscarriage rule, Justin Madders: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. and the way she spoke brought home how cruel it is. It Her speech gave a very clear example of how that can be really does need revisiting. of benefit not just to the parents, but to the wider system. Parents will always want to know why this has Finally,the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) happened to them. It will not always be possible to give gave a very heartfelt speech. Again, he raised a number an answer, but if we can do more to look at that, it of issues about staffing. would be of great benefit. I am nearly out of time, so I will make just a couple of My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam points. A number of Members touched on issues that (Olivia Blake) spoke in November’s debate as well as have arisen during the pandemic. We know that there today, and her contribution was incredibly moving. She has been reduced access to face-to-face appointments. raised the issue of research and the need for more Partners have sometimes been excluded, leaving women funding to be brought into this area. Like many Members, to receive this terrible news on their own. That has she talked about the huge inequalities in perinatal outcomes. obviously been deeply isolating for mothers, but also for She also raised an important point about data collection, fathers. Virtual appointments just do not allow for the which will of course inform policy moving forward. It is compassion and assurance that is really needed in those not just about collecting data, but about collecting it in difficult moments. Of course, even if the woman has a timely manner and accurately. had her partner with her, the wider family has not always been able to comfort them during those difficult The hon. Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) times. mentioned the experience of his constituents Claudia and Andy, and he made a very important point about We know that, for those who have had a loss, time is statutory bereavement leave, which we ought to look at of the essence. There is a direct correlation between again. when someone receives mental health support and how The comments of my hon. Friend the Member for long it is needed. A survey by Sands found that nearly Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) about her own two thirds of bereaved parents who felt they needed trust, the death of baby Winter, and her constituents psychological support were unable to access it on the Jack and Sarah, who had a similar loss with Harriet in NHS. We really need to do much better on that. 2016, were telling. That really was a case of many of the Finally, I want to take a few moments to recognise issues being repeated, and it sounds to me as if the trust the fantastic work that the more than 60 charities that has not done enough to learn the lessons. My hon. Friend collaborate together in this area do and the way they also made a vital point about parental involvement in support anyone who has been affected by pregnancy 307WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 308WH loss or the death of a baby.They work very constructively Because of that slower reduction, on 4 July I announced with health professionals to improve services and reduce £2 million of funding to support a new programme to deaths. I also pay tribute to Donna Ockenden and her reduce brain injuries in babies. The first phase of the team for the work they are undertaking. There is no programme is being led by the Royal College of doubt that the more work they do, the more it becomes Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the RCM and the apparent that there is an awful lot more to do. Healthcare Improvement Studies Institute at the University It is now approaching five years since we had the first of Cambridge. It aims to develop clinical consensus on of what has become an annual debate on baby loss in the best practices for monitoring and responding to the House. Those debates have seen the House at its babies’ wellbeing during labour—the progress of the best. Members recall their own experiences, and no one baby during labour has been mentioned a number of should underestimate how difficult that must be. That times—and in managing complications with the baby’s plays a vital role in helping to inform policy, but it also positioning, specifically when a baby’s head is impacted says to those who may be going through these awful in the mother’s pelvis during a caesarean section. experiences that they are not alone. Funding for the second phase of the work, beginning later this year, will begin to implement and evaluate this 10.39 am new approach to inform how we can roll it out nationally. On pre-term births, recent ONS provisional data shows The Minister for Patient Safety, Suicide Prevention the percentage of all pre-term live births decreased for and Mental Health (Ms Nadine Dorries): It is a great the second year in a row, from 7.8% to 7.5%. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, and a huge pleasure to respond to my hon. Friend the Although we have had a reduction in maternal deaths, Member for Truro and Falmouth (Cherilyn Mackrory). there is still more work needed to address the underlying Many tributes have been paid to her bravery, courage causes of why mothers die in or shortly after childbirth. and compassion and to how inspirational she is on this In the 2016 to 2018 data, 217 women died during or up issue. I echo all that and thank her for securing this to six weeks after pregnancy. That represents a 9% debate today on an incredibly important issue. reduction in the maternal mortality rate against the This debate has an hour and a half. If we had half a 2009 to 2011 baseline, but we obviously need more day, it still would not be enough. I have 10 minutes and up-to-date data on that. Some 58% of the deaths were a huge amount of information to respond to. I will not due to indirect causes, such as cardiac disease and be able to respond to all the questions and issues raised neurological conditions. This means that we need to in those few minutes. The hon. Member for Nottingham look not only at what maternity services can do during South (Lilian Greenwood) and I have a call very soon the 40 weeks or less they may care for a woman while and we will discuss Nottingham in detail during it. she is pregnant, but also at a lifetime approach—supporting women to be in the best health before pregnancy. I want to start by saying that the UK is one of the safest countries in the world to give birth. We are safer To care for pregnant women with acute and chronic than Canada, the United States, France and New Zealand. medical conditions, NHS England is rolling out maternal I could go on listing how safe we are. We have made medicine networks to ensure that there is timely access good progress. I want to start with that context. We at all stages of pregnancy. In the debate today, a number have made really good progress in improving maternity of people have mentioned staffing levels and workforce. safety over the past few years. The original ambition Wehave recently announced £95 million towards increasing was to halve the 2010 rates of stillbirths, neonatal and the workforce in maternity units—some 1,200 additional maternal deaths, and brain injuries in babies occurring midwives and 100 additional consultant obstetricians. during or soon after birth by 2030. We updated that The figures have been calculated at trust level on the ambition in 2017 to bring forward that date to 2025 and basis of birth rate, along with the RCOG. We have also to include an additional ambition to reduce the rate of given the RCOG £500,000 to develop a workforce tool pre-term births from 8% to 6%. for planning, so that we have as safe staffing levels as we In relation to stillbirths, we are making solid progress can have on maternity units, when they are needed. towards meeting that ambition. Since 2010, the stillbirth I am going to go on to the nitty-gritty of the problems rate has fallen from 5.1 stillbirths per 1,000 births to that affect some of the outcomes that we are trying to 3.7, which equates to a 25% reduction in the stillbirth negate during pregnancy. We know that obesity during rate. That places us firmly ahead of our target to meet pregnancy puts women at an increased risk of experiencing the 2020 ambition for a 20% decrease, and that means miscarriage, difficult deliveries, pre-term births and there are now at least 750 fewer stillbirths each year. caesarean sections. I underline the importance of helping Similar progress has been made on reducing the people to achieve and maintain a healthy weight in number of neonatal deaths. According to the ONS, order to improve our nation’s health. there has been a 29% reduction in the neonatal mortality That is why we launched the obesity strategy in July rate for babies born over 24 weeks of gestational age of 2020. The strategy sets out a campaign to reduce obesity, viability. I am particularly proud of that progress and including measures to get the nation fit and healthy. We acknowledge that progress on reducing the maternal know that obesity has a huge impact on covid-19. mortality rate, the brain injury rate and the pre-term According to the RCOG, the overall likelihood of a birth rate has been slower. However, according to a stillbirth in the UK is less than one in 200 births, but if a bespoke definition developed by clinicians at the request woman’s body mass index is over 30, the risk doubles to of the Department of Health and Social Care, the one in 100. According to Public Health England, 22.1% of overall rate of brain injuries occurring during or soon women were obese in early pregnancy. If a woman’s after birth has fallen to 4.2% per 1,000 births in 2019 BMI is higher than 25, that is associated with a range of from 4.7% per 1,000 in 2014. Although that progress is additional risks, which I will not list now, but which slower, we are still seeing a reduction. include miscarriage. 309WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 Reducing Baby Loss 310WH

[Ms Nadine Dorries] to enable partners to be present during labour and birth. According to the latest information, all maternity On smoking, some 12.8% of women in the UK were partners are accompanying women to all antenatal scans smoking at the start of pregnancy and 10.4% of women and appointments in acute settings. were smoking at the time of delivery. With the new The hon. Member for Luton North also brought up emphasis on public health post covid, I requested meetings vaccinations. She made the point that the Government with Public Health England to discuss how we once need to ensure that all pregnant women are vaccinated. again emphasise the negative effects of smoking during My daughter is 32 weeks pregnant, so no one has been pregnancy and the impact of obesity, particularly given more aware of that than me, but I am afraid that the RCOG figures of the doubling of the risk of stillbirth politicians do not make clinical decisions, and the for women with a BMI over 30. Government are not the JCVI—the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation is completely Sarah Owen: I am sure it is not the Minister’s intention independent. The committee decides who is vaccinated. that the tone of the response, particularly in this section, After constantly asking why pregnant women were feeds into the guilt that many women experience having not being prioritised and taking a glance at the make-up suffered miscarriage or stillbirth. It feels as if the onus is of the JCVI, however, I was shocked to discover that it being put on the woman—that the reason they have is made up of 14 men and three women, so I am experienced this loss is entirely their fault. Perhaps, if unsurprised at the JCVI not emphasising or prioritising we want to tackle the root causes of obesity and smoking pregnant women for vaccination. Again, that is a point and those reasons for baby loss, we would be tackling I am making in the Department and in particular with the root causes of deprivation, not necessarily focusing the women’shealth strategy.Perhaps all scientific committees on personal responsibility in the way that the Minister that make decisions about women’s health should have has just outlined. a gender balance. Ms Dorries: I could not agree more, but we are doing I want to reassure the hon. Member for Luton North nobody any favours whatsoever if we do not inform that I am absolutely on to that and have been all the way women of the impact of smoking and obesity during through. I might just be beginning to get a bit of insight pregnancy.Before covid—some time ago—Public Health into why the JCVI has not prioritised pregnant women England had a huge emphasis on the negative effects of for vaccination. It is shameful that they were not; they smoking during pregnancy, and we think we need to should have been. She highlighted the data herself at focus once more on the fact that 12.8% of women are the L&D hospital, which is one of my local hospitals, smoking at the beginning of pregnancy and 10.4% are and I hope that the hospital will now begin—despite the smoking at the time of delivery, as part of this approach constant requests and pressure from Government—to to continuing to reduce the number of stillbirths. To review its policies on pregnant women and vaccination. keep that trajectory moving, we have to discuss all the I thank the Health and Social Care Committee and reasons why and all the health implications during its independent expert panel for its inquiry into the pregnancy. safety of maternity services and evaluation of maternity A number of Members mentioned the continuity of commitments. The Department is considering the care programme.Weare committed to reducing inequalities recommendations made in the report and will publish a in health outcomes and experience of care. In September full response in September. 2020, I established the maternity inequalities oversight In conclusion, I am absolutely proud of the progress forum to bring together experts from key stakeholders that we are making on stillbirths, neonatal deaths and to consider and address the inequality for women and maternal deaths, but we have to do more. That will babies from different ethnic backgrounds and involve Public Health England, and that will involve socioeconomic groups. looking at all the reasons why and all the targets that we In response to a direct question from my hon. Friend have to beat so that we can reach those ambitions and the Member for Truro and Falmouth, we wanted to see reduce those figures. all women placed on the continuity of care pathway by March 2022, but that will not be possible. We are 10.54 am therefore focusing on having 75% of black, black British, Cherilyn Mackrory: In the short time left, I thank all Asian and Asian British women on the continuity of Members for their kindness. I have been catapulted into care pathway by 2024. We will have 20% of all women this position quite recently and it was not something on that pathway at the same time. The issue of training that I was expecting to have to advocate on, but I am on continuity of care was brought up, and that is the pleased that I am. I am pleased that I can stand up for important point. We can talk about continuity of care parents and families who have had to go through a pathways, but it is about having the right training in similar thing. We have had a robust and interesting place and ensuring that those midwives who have those discussion. women on that pathway and are caring for them are I make a plea for two things. First, our all-party trained in the particular inequalities that my hon. Friend parliamentary group on baby loss is meeting the Minister mentioned. That is why it will take us to 2024, but we this afternoon at 3 o’clock, so anybody watching who will have 75% of those ethnic minority women on that would like to come along is very welcome. Secondly, I pathway by that date. will be applying for another debate from the Backbench A number of Members mentioned covid-19. It has Business Committee for Baby Loss Awareness Week caused a huge amount of disruption to our lives. As the this autumn, in October,and if the Committee is listening, hon. Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) said, please, please, may we have it in the main Chamber? It is women have continued to have babies throughout that important, and that would show the utmost respect to time. Maternity and neonatal services have worked hard parents who have been through this. 311WH Reducing Baby Loss 20 JULY 2021 312WH

Question put and agreed to. Rural Banking Services Resolved, That this House has considered progress towards the national ambition to reduce baby loss. 11 am

10.55 am Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con): I beg to move, Sitting suspended. That his House has considered rural banking services. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Gray. I am grateful to other Members for attending the debate. It is hot outside but there is no reason it should be hot in here. This does not need to be a divisive debate and I hope we can talk about the positives and the negatives of the issue. I want to cover both the availability of cash and the importance of banking infrastructure in rural areas. There is no doubt that the pandemic has forced businesses to adapt and accelerated a wider move towards digital payments. That is to be welcomed and I thank businesses across the country that have bent over backwards and adapted their systems to ensure that they can provide a service to isolated or elderly customers. However, I am concerned that this has implications for some members of society, particularly older and vulnerable people, who are much more likely to use cash. Lower income households and those without internet access are likely to be the most affected. During the pandemic, cash use has declined, often in constituencies with higher levels of deprivation. In my constituency, cash withdrawals dropped by 55% in the first six months of the pandemic and in areas such as mine, where our broadband and mobile coverage is poor, cash is extremely important for rural businesses and individuals. I am grateful that the Government are listening on this and are proactive, as I know the Minister will outline later, and we have already made some good steps in that direction. In 2019, the “Access to Cash Review”report highlighted the need for different Government bodies and regulatory authorities to work together to protect access to cash. That was then followed with a commitment from the Chancellor in his Budget to legislate to protect access to cash. In April 2021, the Government accepted an amendment to the Bill that became the Financial Services Act 2021, which would allow consumers to withdraw cashback from more retailers without having to make a purchase. We have a real-life example of that amendment working well in my constituency. I have been working with the community access to cash group in Hay-on-Wye, which is a group of volunteers who have gathered together to focus on the problem of cash availability. I do not know if you know my constituency, Mr Gray, but Hay-on-Wye is a beautiful town and has a wonderful culture of striking out on its own. In fact, in 1973, Richard Booth, who appointed himself the king of Hay, declared Hay an independent kingdom, so we did not need to go through the Brexit referendum—it really was that easy. As a result, Hay-on-Wye has a culture of fixing its own problems. I want to commend the group of volunteers who have been organising this. They got together after the final bank left the town in 2018. At the same time, the post office has been going through some turbulent times after the postmaster, Mr Steve Like, stepped down from the business. I want to thank Steve and his 313WH Rural Banking Services20 JULY 2021 Rural Banking Services 314WH

[Fay Jones] This proves the point that cash is extremely important. The Lloyds group talks about a group of 3 million family, who have owned the post office in Hay-on-Wye cash-critical people. These are not the people that we for more than 60 years. It was the end of an era when he might expect: 41% of this group are aged between stepped down in June. 35 and 54; they earn less than £20,000 a year; and they With those two pressures in mind, a group of volunteers often rent their home or live in social housing. Therefore, led by Josh Green got together to tackle the issue of we are not just talking about the elderly, the vulnerable cash availability. As well as creating a scheme where and those who live on their own. We need to ensure that customers from different banks can speak to a representative this extremely important group in society has access from their bank in the parish hall one day a month, they to cash. have got together a large group of businesses that are Let me turn to my ask of Government. As I have now offering cashback after the Government stepped mentioned, the Government have taken some really forward with the change to the Financial Services Act 2021. positive steps towards addressing the challenges, and I want to celebrate what those volunteers have done. It there is currently a consultation open on access to cash. is a meaningful difference and proves just how important The proposals include the Treasury granting powers to cash is. require certain firms such as retail banks to provide deposit and withdrawal facilities for customers within Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the certain distances, and the Financial Conduct Authority hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Fay Jones) would have oversight for monitoring and enforcing on bringing forward this debate. My constituency of those requirements. I very much welcome that. Those Strangford is similar to her own. We have had a number proposals suggest that the Government are introducing of bank closures and the latest one is Barclays in a legal guarantee for consumers and businesses to be Newtownards, just 30 minutes away from Portavogie able to withdraw and access their cash. That is absolutely and Cloughey in my constituency. They are closed and what we need. I think that the point about certain the options are away. I agree with the hon. Lady that distances will be critical for people in my constituency there is an important parallel between banking and of Brecon and Radnorshire.Weare the largest constituency broadband services. More time needs to be committed in England and Wales—the constituency is bigger than to improving internet services in rural communities to Luxembourg—and I urge my hon. Friend the Minister ensure that constituents can use online banking efficiently, to bear that in mind as the consultation goes forward. I in addition to doing it in person. It doesn’t suit everyone, will certainly respond to it, but it is imperative to but it will suit a whole lot of people. The option needs remember that miles are not the same in urban areas as to be there, perhaps as an opportunity for banks and they are in rural areas. broadband to work together. Brecon has four banks, and that is great news, but Ystradgynlais, the largest town in my constituency by Fay Jones: I agree with the hon. Member. I hope the population, has only one.Builth Wells has one.Hay-on-Wye, Minister will cover that in his summing up. As a beautiful as I have said, has none. Crickhowell has none. Rhayader constituency, we have one of the lowest broadband has none. Knighton has none. Since the mid-1990s, the availability rates in the entire country, so those are number of bank branches in the UK has been falling twin-track problems that we need to fix at the same steadily. time. Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): My Welsh colleague is making important points on the importance Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con): I thank my hon. of banking infrastructure. In my constituency of Friend for securing this debate. She could well be describing Pontypridd, loyal customers whose life savings have Aberconwy: it is beautiful and rural, and it has trouble been invested in banks are being abandoned by these with broadband and, unfortunately, the withdrawal of corporations, which claim to serve the communities banking services. In my constituency, the experience of that we represent. Does the hon. Member agree with me the residents and small businesses of Llanrwst is that first that it is completely wrong for banks to bale out of local they saw banking and counter services withdrawn from communities such as ours and others across Wales the town and going down the coast to Llandudno, and when just a few years ago they had to be bailed out by they were told that they could travel to Llandudno. the public purse themselves? Now, they hear that the counter services in Llandudno are closing, at some banks, and moving further along Fay Jones: I certainly agree that it is wrong for banks the coast. These are areas that do not have the benefit of to withdraw when there are no options left. We need to extensive public transport, so it is physically difficult to be really careful. I have worked with and spoken to a move from the valley to the coast— number of them in preparation for this debate, and I implore them to remember that we do need physical James Gray (in the Chair): Order. Interventions must banking services. We cannot just push them down the be brief. I call Fay Jones. line or rely on a certain urban area. On that point, it has just been announced that Barclays Fay Jones: I completely agree with my hon. Friend bank in my constituency, in Llandrindod Wells, is about the Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar), too. I will to close. From my office in Llandod, I can see the cover later in my speech the issues that have been raised. number of people who use that bank every day, and They are common issues, and that is why we all need to I am quite surprised that the decision is going ahead. I work together. This involves not just the UK Government, understand it is too late to influence that, but I make but the devolved Administrations in Cardiff, Edinburgh the plea none the less. It will cause considerable problems and Northern Ireland. for people in my constituency: those who live in Knighton 315WH Rural Banking Services20 JULY 2021 Rural Banking Services 316WH or Presteigne, or further north. I again remind the England, and indeed Scotland too. I also listened very House that it is the largest constituency in England and carefully to the three interventions from the hon. Members Wales. for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) and for Strangford As much as this decision causes a headache for (Jim Shannon) and my hon. Friend the Member for personal banking, businesses will also suffer. It is crucial Aberconwy (Robin Millar), and I am keen to address that we recognise the value of these rural businesses. those in my response. Farmers rely on good relationships with their banks, for From my first-hand experience growing up in rural obvious reasons. It is often said that nobody knows how Wiltshire, as part of a family running a very small to spend money better than a farmer, and it is really business, I know the significance of bank branches and important that we remember how that money gets the central role that they have in the community.However, filtered out right through the rural community. One I also have to recognise that the world that we live in farmer sustains hundreds of businesses in a rural area, today is very different from the one of a few decades including the vet, the insurance agent, the feed merchant ago. Technological progress means that more consumers and the contractors that he will work with, so remembering and businesses are opting for digital payments and that rural businesses need access to banking infrastructure banking, and last year’s figures from UK Finance show is so important. I urge the Minister to put some real that around seven in 10 adults in this country used teeth behind the proposal in the consultation for a right online banking and eight in 10 used contactless payments. to withdraw cash, again remembering that point about Although cash represented almost a fifth of the total mileage. Some of my constituents who used to rely on number of payments, this was a reduction from 56% a Barclays bank in Llandrindod Wells are now going to decade earlier in 2009, so while the longer-term impact need to travel 20 or 30 miles to get cash to pay their bills, of the pandemic on banking is not yet absolutely clear, or to give a grandchild their birthday money, so that the switch to those digital methods is likely to have been right is absolutely essential. accelerated by coronavirus. Times are changing and The final point I will make is about the importance of have clearly changed, and digital technology is transforming banks to the high street, because nobody just pops to banking just like ATMs did in the 1960s. the bank as a one-off transaction: they pop into the None the less, as we have heard today, bank branches post office, go into the butcher or go for a coffee. Banks still matter a great deal to many people, and permanent are important parts of a thriving high street—again, I branch closures can be a source of real dismay to stress the importance of a high street to rural areas, communities across the country. Although closures can particularly in Brecon and Radnorshire, where we do be upsetting, they are commercial matters and the not have large urban conurbations or city centres. Our Government cannot intervene. Indeed, one could argue high streets are the lifeblood of the rural economy, and that the UK’s financial services sector is among the it is incredibly important that as we move towards a most competitive and productive in the world precisely purely digital platform, we remember the need for face- because it has the flexibility to respond to market to-face contact. If the pandemic has demonstrated anything changes. over the past 18 months, it is that we all need and cherish human interaction, and it is incredibly important It is also crucial that the impact of branch closures is that we remember the impact that closures like these understood, considered and, where possible, mitigated can have on mental health. Again, I think of the farmers so that all consumers across the country can continue to in my constituency who take their cattle to market and access over-the-counter banking services as they choose. then, while they are in Brecon market, go to the high As has been mentioned, since 2017 the major high street and into the bank. This is part of an important street banks have been signed up to the access to rural chain, and when one link goes, so goes the rest banking standard, which commits banks to ensuring of it. that customers are well informed about branch closures and the reasons behind them, and that customers have I really want the Government to think about the options for continued access to banking services, including impact that these closures can have. Obviously, we specialist assistance for those who need more help. That cannot control the commercial decisions that the retail is not some passive intervention. The operation of the banks make, but I believe we should be doing all we can standard is monitored and enforced by the independent to preserve rural communities, remembering that rural Lending Standards Board, which holds banks that close banking services are so crucial. We talk a lot in this branches accountable for their treatment of customers. place about levelling up, and rightly so, but there can be That means monitoring to see whether they help individual no levelling up if we forget rural areas. I urge the customers to make the transfer to using the Post Office Minister to think about that. or other solutions. Last September,banks’responsibilities around closures 11.12 am were further clarified by the Financial Conduct Authority The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen): when it published guidance setting out its expectations It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this of firms that decide to reduce their physical branches or morning, Mr Gray, and I commend my hon. Friend the the number of free-to-use ATMs. Under that guidance, Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Fay Jones) on which seeks to ensure that customers are treated fairly, securing this debate and on the eloquent way in which banks are expected to consider the impact of planned she set out a whole range of issues concerning her closures on customers’ everyday banking and cash access constituents.I know that she has deep first-hand experience needs. In addition, banks should consider alternative of rural affairs, given her prior role working for the access arrangements. On that last point, it is my National Farmers Union before she came to this place, understanding that within a short distance of the and she spoke very clearly about the significance of Llandrindod Wells Barclays, which my hon. Friend the bank branches for many in rural areas across Wales, Member for Brecon and Radnorshire mentioned, there 317WH Rural Banking Services20 JULY 2021 Rural Banking Services 318WH

[John Glen] pleased with the direction of travel in that area. The hubs will offer access to face-to-face community banking are two post offices and two free ATMs. In addition, I services provided by the banks with the most customers note that Lloyds and NatWest provide fortnightly mobile in each area. In addition, Hay-on-Wye’s post office is bank branches throughout the constituency. being refurbished to better support banking services, as My hon. Friend quite rightly highlighted the great part of the eight pilots. I look forward to learning significance of cash to constituents, and the Government lessons from the pilots and to the future industry models recognise that we have to address that need and the for supporting access to cash that they will help to ongoing importance of cash to millions of people, inform. particularly those in vulnerable groups—often the elderly A final point, which has been raised, is that there is a and the poorest. I am therefore glad that LINK has need to improve mobile and broadband coverage in already said that it will protect the broad geographic rural areas,to make the immense benefits and opportunities spread of free-to-use ATMs. It is being held to account of online products open to all. That is why the Government against those commitments by the Payment Systems remain committed to delivering UK-wide gigabit Regulator. connectivity as soon as possible, with £5 billion to As my hon. Friend acknowledged, the Government support roll-out in the hardest to reach areas. As the are committed to legislating to protect access to cash for Prime Minister mentioned in his levelling-up speech last those who need it while ensuring that the UK’s cash week, we have made great progress. By the end of this infrastructure is sustainable. Clearly, the way it is funded year, 60% of the country will have a gigabit connection. and the way the wholesale system works has to evolve to We are working with industry to target a minimum of reflect the changing usage pattern. That is why we 85% giga-capable coverage in just four years in 2025. brought new laws into effect at the end of June through We will seek to accelerate roll-out further to get as close the Financial Services Act 2021 to support the widespread to 100% as possible. offering of cashback without a purchase by shops and However, while 4G coverage continues to improve in other businesses. That exciting development unlocks rural areas, admittedly it is not yet as good as in towns the potential for cashback without a purchase. It will and cities—again, Members rightly raised that. As a provide a valuable facility for cash users and will play a result, the Government are providing £510 million for major role in the UK’s cash infrastructure. As my hon. the shared rural network. Mobile operators will contribute Friend highlighted, cashback without a purchase has an additional £532 million as part of this deal, which been trialled in Hay-on-Wye—clearly a community with will extend high-quality 4G mobile coverage to 95% of a strong independent streak, from what she said—for the UK by 2025. We are also focused on removing the some months under the community access to cash pilots. practical barriers that stand in the way of our broadband In addition, earlier this month we published a and mobile coverage targets, through our barrier busting consultation outlining broader legislative proposals to task force. We are looking at the difficult challenges in protect access to cash. Those proposals seek to ensure some communities, many of which are in rural areas, to that people need to travel only a reasonable distance to try to make a real difference on the ground. pay in or take out cash, and that the right regulatory While technology is continually changing, the principles oversight for cash access is in place for the future. My that guide the Government’s approach to banking services hon. Friend made a point about the rurality of her remain entirely consistent. I have been in this role now distinctive and distinguished constituency, with respect for more than three and a half years, and I continue to to its geographical size. This is obviously a matter that work with banks, the Post Office and industry stakeholders we must consider carefully as we move forward with to try to find practical solutions. We are working to these proposals. ensure that all consumers, in both rural and urban areas, can access the services they need. Weare committed Together, these measures will support the use of cash to legislating to protect access to cash for those who and help local businesses to continue accepting it by need it, and to maintaining the sustainable cash ensuring reasonable access to cash depositing facilities infrastructure that the country needs. We are determined for small and medium-sized enterprises. The Post Office to help the whole country benefit from better broadband is also playing a key role; the Post Office banking and mobile coverage, so that everyone who wishes to framework allows 95% of businesses and 99% of personal use digital and online services can do so. banking customers to deposit cheques, check their balances and withdraw and deposit cash, across a network of I will continue work with colleagues across the House, 11,500 post office branches across the country. The Post and with my hon. Friend, on these important matters in Office is also required to ensure that 95% of the total the coming weeks and months. I hope that that is a UK rural population is within three miles of an outlet. I reasonable appraisal of and response to the issues that am pleased to tell hon. Members that the Post Office is she rightly raised this morning. I am happy to continue trialling bank hubs as part of the eight community correspondence with all Members, because I know that access to cash pilots around the country that I mentioned this is something that concerns our constituents. earlier. Rochford in Essex and Cambuslang in south Question put and agreed to. Lanarkshire are benefiting from those shared branches. They are a significant innovation from the business 11.24 am hubs that were on offer a few years ago, and I am very Sitting suspended 319WH 20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 320WH

. Figures from the Commons Library tell us that in 2010 there were 397 offences involving a knife in Bedfordshire. By last year, that number had climbed to Tackling Knife Crime 530—an increase of over a third in a relatively short space of time. It is important to say that this is not just [IAN PAISLEY in the Chair] young people; it includes knife crime committed by adults in domestic settings, as well as on the streets. 2.30 pm Ian Paisley (in the Chair): I am sure that hon. Members This is against a backdrop of 11 years of central are aware that social distancing is no longer in operation, Government gutting funding for our councils, forcing but I would like to remind them that the Speaker has what few services we have left to operate on a skeleton encouraged us, where possible, to wear facemasks when budget or close altogether. In Luton, one of the biggest not speaking. I remind hon. Members that there have been towns in the country by population that does not have some changes to normal practice in order to support the city status, we have seen police officers having to operate hybrid arrangements. Timings of debates have been with the budget of a rural police force. There is no amended to allow technical arrangements to be made single cause of the recent rise in knife offences, but in a for the next debate. There will also be suspensions debate like this it would be wrong not to remark that the between debates. kids who had their services closed and gutted 10 years I remind Members participating physically and virtually ago are now the young adults left without aspiration, that they must arrive at the start of debates in Westminster left without hope for the future, who are now falling Hall, and are expected to remain for the entire debate. into crime and being targeted by criminals. Those Members who are participating virtually are Our local newspaper, Luton Today, launched a campaign reminded to keep their camera on as they will be seen at after Humza’s death a few weeks ago encouraging people all times by those viewing these proceedings. If Members to “Bin Your Blade”. This is a campaign that my hon. experience technical problems, they should contact the Friend the Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) Westminster Hall Clerks via their email address. Members and I were keen to endorse, because we both want to do attending physically should clean their spaces before all we can to tackle this problem. Most people in our they use them and before leaving the room. town want to do something about it as well, but we need There are no Members sitting in the Public Gallery, support from the Government to help us to do that. and there are four speakers for this debate. Before I call the hon. Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) to This is not a party political issue. Helping our young move the motion, may I suggest that I intend to call the people make the properly informed decision not to carry Scottish National party spokesperson at around 3.20 pm? a knife should not be party political. Getting knives out We do have lots of time and I do not think I need to of our schools should not be party political. I am sure impose a time limit at any point, but that is the time at that the Minister will at least be able to agree with that. which I would like to call the first Opposition spokesperson. Before today’s debate, I spoke to a brilliant officer at I call Sarah Owen. Luton Borough Council, Dave Collins, whose passion, after a 30-year career working on these kinds of offences, 2.31 pm shone through. Dave told me that the public and media Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab): I beg to move, narrative about knife crime is often unhelpful and tends That this House has considered tackling knife crime. to paint a very incomplete picture. That has been echoed It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Paisley. by many organisations working to tackle this issue, I applied for this debate after the recent sad death of including the charity, London Youth. Humza Hussain in my Luton North constituency.Humza was just 16 years old. Let me repeat that: he was just Figures from Barnardo’s show that over a fifth of 16 years old. He had his whole life ahead of him, but he offences involving a knife involve somebody under 18. was stabbed by another young person and killed outside Last July, a quarter of Barnardo’s frontline workers his school. said that they had supported a young person who they thought had been coerced, deceived or manipulated Over the past few weeks, people across Luton have into criminal activity; 15% said they thought the first been shaken by these events, and many people in the lockdown led to more children and young people becoming town rallied around all the families involved, but especially involved in serious violence and exploitation. That is Humza’s parents, when they received the worst news a exactly what it is: criminals exploiting our young people. parent could ever possibly receive. My heart goes out to This is a safeguarding issue. Young people, who might Humza’s family and people in Luton North who have have experienced the trauma of early family violence, been affected by this tragic death over the past few weeks. neglect or adverse childhood experiences, are put on a Today, I hope to be a strong voice for them in Parliament. path at an early age—no longer with the youth services I will work with whomever it takes to end this situation or safety net to help them break out of that cycle. in which our young people are carrying knives because they are involved with things in their life and they see it Public Health Wales research reveals that adults who as the only way out. They see carrying a weapon as the experienced adversity like this in their early years are only way to feel safe. What makes this even more tragic 14 to 15 times more likely to be a victim of violence or a is that it did not need to happen; every death caused by perpetrator than those who did not. Those children are a knife is avoidable. It just takes the political will and also more likely to be excluded or off-rolled by schools. targeted resources to stop it. Unfortunately, we have From a young age, they are told that they are “naughty instead seen a rapid rise in knife-related crime over the kids” and put on the “too difficult to deal with” pile. We past few years across the country, and Bedfordshire is have seen that pile grow over 11 years with the marketisation no exception. and academisation of our schools. When that happens, 321WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 322WH

[Sarah Owen] to prevent it, rather than just fight it—an approach that deals with it as a public health issue and gets to the root youth services play an invaluable role in reaching young cause of the problem? people who are otherwise disengaged from statutory Will the Government end the short-term approach of services. the past and really invest in early-years support and However, spending on youth services has been cut by funding from a primary age for families at risk? Will Government over the past decade. A freedom of they give schools the funding necessary to be able to information request by the all-party parliamentary group support children to stay in education as long as possible on knife crime and violence reduction—chaired, with and to support families through that process? Will they real commitment to the issue, by my hon. Friend the commit to looking again at the funding formula for Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi), who is a Bedfordshire police, which covers my constituency? As staunch campaigner on this issue—revealed that local it is, that force is currently funded as a rural force, yet authority funding for youth services was reduced by Luton North has very little in the way of rural crime. 40% in real terms between 2014-15 and 2017-18. It is The final question I give to Qazi Chishti, the imam at absolutely no coincidence that, after 11 years of cuts to Jamia Islamia Ghousia Trust in Luton, who said last those services, we are seeing a rise in exploitation and week: “Knife crime has become one of the most widespread these kinds of offences. issues affecting not only our community but the UK as The rise in knife crime is a direct result of Government a whole. It affects not only the lives of the victims and policies, neglect and austerity, all of which are related. perpetrators, but their families and communities. In the We have seen the mistrust of police that stop-and-search 40 years I have served my community, I have presided fosters among black and minority ethnic people across over the funerals of three young men who were the the country. In Bedfordshire, official figures show, black victims of knife crime. Each one has remained with me. people are three times more likely to be stopped and Unfortunately, knife crime has only increased over time searched, with some 70% of those stops resulting in and it is now rife within our communities. The most absolutely no arrest whatsoever. recent attack left a family and an entire community in shock and pain. A barely lived life was lost and another Young people in Luton are scared and often do not will be lost to prison. The Government must take steps trust the authorities or the rest of society to protect them. to tackle this issue. More must be done for those living We have seen that a style of policing that breeds mistrust in areas with high levels of knife crime. I urge the is compounded by overstretched forces that have been Government to fulfil its promise of tackling this issue held back by cuts for 11 years. Rather than policing that and ridding our communities of this.” works with communities to prevent crimes like this, we Is the Minister able to tell me, Imam Chishti and the have seen an increase of 33% in knife offences, as I entire community of Luton North, that he will fund mentioned earlier. and take the necessary steps to give our young people Community policing and trust take the investment of hope and better opportunities than picking up a knife? I both time and money, which are two things that our will work with whoever it takes in Luton North and police forces have been starved of. I repeat the call to the across our town to end this problem. The will exists in Minister, from, I think, all of the MPs in Bedfordshire, our community to fix it, but we need the support from for our region to be funded to city levels and not as a people in power and those with the purse strings in this rural area. place to make it happen. For all the brilliant hard work of Bedfordshire police Without a big, comprehensive plan to take on what is in getting another knife or gun off our streets through an all-encompassing issue for our communities, the Operation Boson, more will continue to be fed in, unless Government risk just tinkering around the edges and the cycle is ended. Although enforcement is important, allowing this form of exploitation to grow even stronger if somebody is already carrying a knife, by definition it roots. It simply cannot go on. No parent deserves to be is already too late. We should be working with people on the end of that phone call, hearing their child has from a young age to stop them picking one up in been killed. No other child deserves to have their life the first place. ended before their time. In the spirit of cross-party working, I welcome the funding that the Government have given to Bedfordshire 2.42 pm for enforcement and the violence reduction unit. However, Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]: I commend these crimes are still happening. Our local youth services my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) and our council need the Minister’s support to tackle on an excellent introduction. I feel for her constituents. this. She told a heartbreaking story about her 16-year-old From conversations that I have had with people in constituent who was murdered. I am afraid that I shall Luton North over the past few weeks, I have a few give some examples of very similar stories from my questions to put to the Minister. What extra funding constituency. can he make available for youth services? I am not In Sefton and across the Liverpool City Region, talking about services that just tackle crime but services we have very good practice in the prevention of violent that prevent it and that truly invest in our young people. crime, including knife crime—in stopping people being The pandemic has added fuel to the fire of a crisis in stabbed in the first place, which we would all agree must mental health services across our country—and even more be the absolute priority. It means working with young acutely among young people. What are the Government people. It means working with parents, as my hon. Friend doing to tackle that? Will the Minister commit to said, right from the early years, all the way through. It approaching the issue of knife crime in a way that seeks means challenging gang culture in the Liverpool City 323WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 324WH

Region and the carrying of guns and knives. It means Crosby. They were two of the eight people stabbed in addressing in young people the kind of risk taking and Birmingham city centre in September last year by antisocial behaviour that is synonymous with what leads Zephaniah McLeod. Jacob sadly died but Michael was to taking and using a knife and, indeed, with carrying a saved, despite the fact that the knife had severed his knife in the first place. It means disruption; it means carotid artery, his jugular vein and his vagus nerve. The redirecting. It means finding other interests for young quick thinking of their friends saved Michael, but sadly people to be involved in, so that they do not want to be they were unable to do the same for Jacob. I cannot involved in crime in the first place. begin to imagine what Jacob’s family have gone through The projects that Sefton Council for Voluntary Service and I know from talking to Michael’s family just how is responsible for co-ordinating are life-changing for difficult it has been for them. those involved and they save lives, but building relationships In 2001, 21-year-old Colin McGinty was stabbed takes time, because a relationship of trust is critical, 15 times. His killers have histories of violence and were especially for young people. That takes time, and more part of the Liverpool underworld of the time. Colin’s than a year of funding. As my hon. Friend the Member sister, Laura Hughes, is an amazing woman I have had for Luton North said, this is a public health approach the privilege to get to know a bit recently. Laura and his across numerous agencies in the public, private and mum and dad are all dedicated to saving the lives of voluntary sectors. knife victims in Colin’s memory. I fully support the Merseyside police and crime I mentioned the way Michael’s friends saved his life. commissioner,Emily Spurrell, in her work. She is reversing They stopped him bleeding to death while waiting for some of the significant cuts in police numbers, such as the paramedics. Laura and Colin’s parents want bleed the 1,500 police who have gone in Merseyside since 2010. control kits to be available in public places so that more She is working with partners across all those sectors, people can be saved if they are stabbed. Laura is asking building alternatives to crime for young people. This is for funding for the kits. They were designed by Liverpool not just in one borough, but across multiple boroughs, or surgeon Nikhil Misra as part of the Liverpool KnifeSavers in one region. Of course, we know the way that criminal project, and they cost about £95 each. Laura is looking gangs and organised crime like to engage with young for places to put the kits, which can be used to reduce people to get them to cross county lines, particularly bleeding while waiting for an ambulance or paramedic. with drugs. They can of course be applied to any situation where Emily Spurrell and Sefton Council for Voluntary Service someone is bleeding heavily—for example, a road traffic need help from the Government, because, as I alluded accident. to before, funding is often too short term. It is often last We can only imagine the devastation caused to the minute, in response to the latest problem that has come families of knife victims. The lives of Sam, Jacob and up. That is not a basis on which to build the kinds of Colin all ended in violence, and Michael’s life changed relationships, services and successful partnerships that forever. He was in a coma and suffered a stroke. He is are needed to redirect young people from serious and recovering slowly 10 months after the attack, but as he violent crime in the first place, or to prevent them from says, picking up a knife and getting involved in crime longer term. “In time I will recover, but I can’t get Jacob back.” In order to have those resources, the cuts made since Jacob was his best friend from school. 2010 have to be addressed. The cuts have to be reversed; We have heard of the importance of prevention and that is true for the police and for local government, as of investing in the long-term activities needed to disrupt well as for grants in the voluntary sector. Those cuts potential knife attacks, and of the need for investment have made it much harder to tackle the causes of knife in services and support across organisations and sectors. crime, as well as knife crime itself. The consequences It is not just a policing matter, or a matter of responding and the human side of knife crime are utterly devastating. when an attack happens. I have also given the amazing Take what happened to Sam Cook from Crosby. Sam examples of how Michael Callaghan’s friends saved his was on a night out celebrating his 21st birthday. His life and how Colin McGinty’s inspirational sister, girlfriend, Charlotte, was assaulted and Sam intervened Laura Hughes, is campaigning for bleed control kits, to protect her. Sam was stabbed through the heart. which improve the chances of saving lives. Laura does Sam’s grandad died of a broken heart hours after a not know whether a bleed control kit could have saved court convicted Sam’s killer, Carl Madigan, of murder. Colin’s life—or Jacob’s, or Sam’s, or the thousands of Sam’s mum, Gill Radcliffe, told me she found it difficult lives of knife victims across our country—but she knows every single day, for months after Sam’s murder, just to that bleed kits would have given them a better chance, get up and get on with her day. That is the human side, had the kits been available. both for the person who dies and for their families and My plea to the Government and the Minister is for loved ones left behind. long-term funding for prevention to support the long-term Talking of love, Sam loved football and in his memory relationships that develop the trust that is needed to his mum has been involved in the Liverpool No More ensure young people decide not to be involved with Knives campaign, which talks to young people after serious and violent crime in the first place. I also plead football matches to encourage them not to use knives. with the Government and the Minister to take a good Using sport to get people away from the danger of look at what Mr Misra of Aintree University Hospital becoming involved in violent crime is a great example of has developed. It is very similar to battlefield first aid an effective intervention. and it uses the same principles, with gauze and shellfish What happened to Sam is the reality of knife crime, as is enzymes that help blood clotting. We need funding for what happened to Jacob Billington and Michael Callaghan, prevention and funding to save lives when things go friends from primary and secondary school, also from wrong. Tackling knife crime is about both. It is about 325WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 326WH

[Bill Esterson] young people, to keep them safe, to keep them out of crime and to keep them away from people who put prevention and response, but we need the Government pressure on them. We need our teachers to be supported to intervene, reverse those cuts and provide support for with the skills to keep young people safe. We need better prevention and response. solutions than putting young people in prison and forcing them to grow up there. 2.53 pm There must also be recognition of when the perpetrators Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab): I am grateful to of knife crime are also victims. If our Government are my hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) serious about ending knife crime, they must seek to end for securing this important debate. Knife crime is a the social and economic deprivation that leads people deeply sad fixture of our society. It destroys lives and into crime. Crime ultimately comes out of poverty, and can tear them apart. My hon. Friend the Member for we need to do more to tackle poverty. If we tackle Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) has given us some sad poverty, we help to tackle crime. The Government must and distressing, but very pertinent and important, examples. protect young people so they can confidently go to the In order to truly tackle knife crime, we must do more police for help. In the main, they find it difficult to go to to support those who fall into it. The victims and the police for help, because they experience hurt from perpetrators of knife crime are varied, but today I will the police. The police can hurt them with abusive words, speak about children and young people. In London, the and by using handcuffs on the streets while doing stop victims and perpetrators are children and young men, and search. The police hurt black children and young often from black backgrounds, who are used by drug black people by humiliating them in public, and by lords. Many of them are victims of growing up in Tory making them turn out their pockets or get partially austerity. They have been stuck in overcrowded housing undressed. They feel intimidated, embarrassed and like and have lived in poverty. Crucially, their access to a criminal. Often, the parents know none of this. youth provision has been stripped away from them and What do we need to do to bring about change? It has their local authority budgets have been slashed. to be through adults, not children. A child growing up Statistics provided by Barnardo’s show that funding in prison is not the answer to ending crime in our for youth provision fell by 40% between 2014 and 2018, society. A child’s brain stops growing at the age of 25, and it has only got worse. My constituency, which is one so why are we expecting children to behave like adults? of the most deprived areas in London, does not have We need a compassionate society that cares for the any youth provision at all except what has been provided vulnerable. The Government must put strategies in place by faith groups. The media and the over-policing of to protect young people and their families. I am convinced black children and young men in London and other that children and young people and their families will regions of the country contribute to crushing the dreams come forward to say who the real criminals are and who and aspirations of these people. They are told they will is carrying knives, because nobody wants knives and not amount to anything—except, in some situations, a drugs in their society and their community. I will be criminal. That is a lie, and we need to change it. more than happy to further this conversation and to When an experienced criminal manipulates or threatens help in these matters where I can. a black child or young person into delivering jobs and carrying knives, it means that that child or young person 2.58 pm is helpless and controlled by the criminal masterminds, and pressurised by their peers who are already involved Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op): It is a in this awful way of life. Who is behind the criminal pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. masterminds? Where are the drugs coming from, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Luton what is being done to stop this trade? We do not North (Sarah Owen) for her powerful speech, which have enough answers to these questions. What does our highlighted how important this subject matter is, and to country need to do? What do our families need, and my hon. Friends the Members for Lewisham East what does the child need? (Janet Daby) and for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) for their powerful contributions. They set out some of the First, they need a Government who care enough to statistics and facts, and I am sure that the Minister was want to make the right changes and to invest in young quite aware of them in his former role as deputy Mayor people, not just a Government who want to build more for policing. prisons and put pressure on police officers to boost data, arrests, charges and imprisonment. Our Government As the MP for Vauxhall and co-chair of the all-party need to focus on preventing the exploitation that leads parliamentary group on knife crime and violence reduction, to gang involvement early on, rather than tackling the I see the devastating impact that knife crime is having crime when it is too late. We need more women’s centres on our families and the communities of those affected. and community alternatives to custody. We need to We see life-changing injuries that victims have to live with invest in after-school clubs in school holidays. I remember for the rest of their lives. Most tragic is the avoidable going to after-school clubs in the school holidays. What loss of life—mostly among young, male black people. has happened to them? They have disappeared. We Just two weeks ago, the latest stabbing occurred in my need youth services so that young people have a safe constituency. On 5 July, a short walk away from my place to go and safe people to speak to, and so that they constituency office near the Oval, 16-year-old Keane are supported physically and emotionally in their Flynn-Harling was stabbed. development from the early years to older ages. We know the journey towards committing knife crime We need schools to be resourced and teachers to have starts from a young age. More than a fifth of offences new skills, new passion and new aspiration. They need involving knife crime were committed by children under the support and the confidence to be able to support 18, some as young as nine years old. I have a six-year-old. 327WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 328WH

She will be nine in three years. It is impossible for me to must be part of the holistic approach, linking up with imagine a scenario where a nine-year-old child could be public health, children’ssocial care and housing. I paytribute charged with stabbing somebody. A nine-year-old is just to the youth workers, voluntary groups and community a child, but a 17-year-old is also just a child. They may groups across Vauxhall and right across the country, look and sound more mature, but they are still a child, who are working flat out to support our young people both in the eyes of the law and according to our values day in, day out. When we are all away, at home with our as a society. However, the criminal justice system does families or on vacation, they are working—some of not see that those children and young people are as them on a shoestring budget, and some of them chasing much victims of child criminal exploitation as perpetrators application after application to support our young people. who have committed a criminal act. We have to recognise Over the last decade, we have seen severe cuts in this that, as victims, these children need our help and our sector, leading to reductions, and in some cases closures, protection. of vital youth provision. Cuts to youth services are a The National Youth Agency report “Hidden in Plain false economy, because young people will continue to Sight”highlighted that gangs have been running recruitment be exploited and violence will increase. I ask the Minister drives of vulnerable children, especially girls, because to work with the Treasury to look at how we can truly they are less likely to be stopped by the police. We know restore funding to youth services and invest in our that young people were coerced into dressing as key young people. workers during lockdown so that they could move around freely with a supply of drugs. These criminals 3.5 pm will stop at nothing to exploit people. They will stop at Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): It is a pleasure to nothing to exploit young children. serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I thank the At the all-party parliamentary group, we have heard hon. Member for Luton North (Sarah Owen) for setting from many frontline workers and experts in the field the scene so well, and I associate myself with all her about measures that the Government can take to help comments. As I always do, I am trying to put myself in tackle this epidemic. We have to acknowledge that it is the hon. Lady’s position in relation to her constituent, an epidemic—children are dying. We cannot put this in and I would have found it very hard to deal with that the “too difficult” box, as unfortunately we have done situation. It is never easy. for many years. A number of those practitioners call for This is a topic that I feel we have been discussing and a statutory definition of child criminal exploitation. We debating for years and, sadly,it seems to be an ongoing issue, know that agency safeguarding responses differ from with crime figures still on the higher side and continuous area to area because there is no overarching statutory calls for the Government to act. I am of a certain age, definition. This is an area that the Government are and I was a member of the boy scouts. I remember well looking into, so can the Minister tell us what progress that we each had a small penknife. What did we use has been made? them for? To make bows and arrows, to carve sticks and Secondly, it is essential to look at the measures to for all the innocent purposes a boy scout would. Today, tackle knife crime and make sure they are co-ordinated however, in the society we live in, things are very different. in a multi-agency approach and across a geographical I want to go back to basics and ask why knife crime is area. A number of practitioners call this the public such an issue to begin with. Knife crime is a complex health approach. I congratulate the Government on social problem, as hon. Members have said when they introducing serious violence partnerships in the Police, have spoken about the issues in their own constituencies. Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, and I welcome that. It is a symptom of toxic environments that are created However, those duties do not specifically cover criminal around younger children. Socialised by their peers from exploitation and serious youth violence. The practitioners a young age, these children grow up to become the could provide a clear partnership and a vital means of perpetrators of such violence. Knife crime figures may support for children who present with signs of exploitation be higher in certain sections of the United Kingdom, and serious violence. Can the Minster confirm that the but such crime impacts on all regions of the United serious violence partnerships will cover child criminal Kingdom, including back home in Northern Ireland. exploitation and serious youth violence? I will give an example. I told you this story at the table Lastly, we know that youth services and activities at last night, Mr Paisley, and I told it to the hon. Member the local level are a vital tool in the box to reach young for Lewisham East (Janet Daby) beforehand. My son is people who are disengaged from statutory services. In the manager of a shop in Newtownards. I met him on a my humble opinion, if we view social care as the fourth Monday morning when I went to collect the paper as emergency service, youth services are the fifth emergency usual, but he was outside and the shutter was down. I service. The basis of youth work is built on trust, with asked, “Jimmy, what’s wrong?”, and he said, “Dad, I professionals working with our young people. They are was robbed last night at five to 10.” in such a unique position in building that trust with The guy who came to rob him had a long-handled those young people, who some people describe as hard fish-knife, and in all honesty he was probably spaced to reach. They are not hard to reach; we just have not out. Jimmy said to him, “Look, the tills are cleared. We found a way to reach them. Youth workers do, and in clear them early. All we have here is the £50 float.” The many cases, their work saves lives. They have the vital man pushed by him with the knife, and Jimmy said, “If information that the police, our teachers and social you want the float, take the float; don’t stab me. Take workers need, so they should be supported. the two bottles of Buckfast and move on.” I have long campaigned for youth services to be a As I said to the hon. Lady beforehand, in this case, statutory provision so that all young people can access the better part of valour was to do nothing. It is not as free, high-quality youth services to help to develop and if Jimmy is not courageous or does not stand up for support them in their formative years. Youth services himself; he was also a manager of a shop in a different 329WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 330WH

[Jim Shannon] As a possible way forward, there should be more mandatory resources available, particularly for young part of Northern Ireland and he got to know people people, where the danger of knife crime is brought to like that quite well. On other occasions, when he knew light. If it happens in a certain area and if it happens on who the people were and they tried to rob him but they a regular basis, we need to put resources and time into did not have knives, he took them on. In many cases, the trying to address the issues. All too often, children are police were called to arrest them. blamed and stereotyped for societal issues surrounding knife crime, but the bigger picture is not evaluated. It is The point I am making is: why do these people use all very well to sometimes point the finger without knives? The knife this man had was a large fish-knife. We looking at the source of why the problems happen. have a fishing community in our area; did the knife come from there? Those knives are incredibly sharp. One For example, I stated earlier that these situations are wrong move, and we could be looking at a very different created around younger children. Ultimately, it can be situation. The point is that it is not just a problem in the said that they do not know any better. In some cases, constituencies of the hon. Members for Luton North, they might not, but they have to be taught what it for Lewisham East, for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi), means to carry a knife. Growing up, we were all taught and for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson). It is a problem to do as we were told and to obey our elders. Again, across the whole of the United Kingdom, and it is that is a generational thing. I think a lot of us will particularly worrying. It is worrying because a person subscribe to that. Can we really place full blame on the can get a knife from their kitchen. They can take one young people? from their job down in the fishing ports in Portavogie. I believe there is a partnership for the Minister on They can lift one up in a shop, or from the hardware schooling and education; I hope we get an assurance on shop two or three doors up. That is how easy it is. that when he replies. This is a crucial element in the debate. It is critical. It is not just the responsibility of Recent police recorded crime figures published by the the Minster here today; it is the education Minister’s, Office for National Statistics show a 2% increase in too. A partnership of the two together could try to the number of knife offences recorded: from 35,146 in address the issue. the year ending March 2019 to 35,815 in the year ending March 2020. It has continued to increase since Schools are a safe place for children, and the correct 2013. I am looking to the Minister—I am not being facilities should be in place to reassure them that they critical, by the way, and I always try to be constructive can talk about issues surrounding knife crime. How do in my comments—but the frustration is, how do we stop we do that? We need to have teachers available to this crime? That is the question we are all asking. How engage with children and look out for them. I am not can we stop it happening? I look to the Minister in the saying that they are not doing that; teachers are very hope that he will give us some encouragement. I know responsive to their pupils. However, if young people are that the Government are doing lots of things; I always worried about getting mixed up with the wrong crowds, like to give credit where credit is due. They have lots of support needs to be available. strategies and policies, but I want to put forward something If a pupil tells a teacher that their friend carries for down the line, which I hope the Minister,in conjunction whatever it may be, we need to be able to respond, to with other Ministers, will take on board. take that pupil away and to address the issue for their We have proof that current ways, means and legislation friend. I therefore call again on the Secretary of State for are not working. I say that really respectfully. Across Education—it is not the responsibility of the Minister—to mainland England there is an increasingly concerning ensure that schools in England have the funding to add issue with knife crime in schools. In 2019, 45,000 young that support for children, so that partnership between people aged 10 to 17 were sentenced for carrying a knife schooling and policing can work successfully. or offensive weapon, with more than 1,000 of these weapons I would also like to mention the relationship between found on school property. In my day, school was always local communities and our policing systems across the a safe place to be. We have to ask how we can make it United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. the safe place that it was before. Every one of us today We need to focus on maintaining a steady and trusting wants to make sure that that can happen again. Why do relationship between the two. It is really important that they carry knives? I cannot fathom why they do. If they local communities and the police come together—another carry one, the use of it is not too far away. It is easy to partnership—to work out how we can provide safety pull it out and then the inevitable can happen. We want for our young people, as opposed to provoking violence to stop that. and hatred. The police recorded 275 murders involving a knife or The hon. Member for Luton North referred to the sharp object in the 12 months between April 2019 and “Bin Your Blade” campaign, and I commend her for April 2020; 23 were children under 17 years of age. Why supporting it. I hope that it encourages people to come are under-17s being stabbed to their deaths, and what forward, discard weapons and seek help to become further action can we take to stop that from happening? better people. It is the second time today that the hon. The Ben Kinsella Trust, a leading charity in tackling Lady and I have been in a debate: we did the first one knife crime, has also revealed that from April 2020 to this morning, we are doing another this afternoon. July 2020 there was a 54% increase in hospital admissions These are important issues that we are dealing with on for those who were victims of knife crimes.What discussions behalf of our constituents. has the Government had with the Ben Kinsella Trust? There is no time for complacency when it comes to There are charities working on the frontline. They must any crime, but especially when it is a crime that is killing know the symptoms and must have an idea of how to hundreds of our young people. It cannot go on. When I respond to try to control it. read about cases in the press or see them on the TV, I do 331WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 332WH not know the cases, but I always see the pictures and 2019 that London will echo Scotland’s approach to they tell me about a family that is devastated because tackling serious violence by treating it as a public health their loved one has been killed by knife crime. That has issue. A violence reduction unit has been set up in a lasting effect on everyone in the family. Mr Paisley, London, which includes public health staff, police and you and I, coming from Northern Ireland, know that local government. Through that violence reduction unit, the ripples from those things go long and deep. I cannot the Mayor is investing in programmes that can tackle begin to imagine the harrowing phone calls that parents the causes of violence and promote opportunities. must face. A key programme focuses on reducing school exclusions, I therefore call on the Minister to encourage the keeping young people in education and enabling youth Home Secretary and the Education Secretary to work practitioners to reach out—a point made by the hon. in partnership.I encourage the Minister to ask communities Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi)—visiting groups and police to engage together in a more effective people in A&E and in the custody suites, providing way. All those bodies, Ministers and local bodies must support for parents or carers and creating resilient get together and take all the steps that they can to home environments, and providing young people with reduce knife crime in the United Kingdom. positive opportunities to develop skills and broaden If we can save one life, and we can stop the heartache their prospects for employment and life chances. of others, we will have done a good job. I very much It is very welcome that Scotland’sworld-leading approach look forward to the Minister’s response; I look forward is being replicated in other areas across the UK and the to the SNP spokesperson’sand shadow Minister’sresponses world, but there is more that we can do as politicians. as well. What the Minister has heard today is a small We can fundamentally change the underlying conditions capsule of what we all think: what we need is something leading to knife and violent crime. The violence reduction more effective. I hope that the Minister will have answers. unit in Glasgow and the trainers at the College of Policing, know only too well that the causes of knife 3.18 pm crime are complex and numerous, but poverty and lack Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (SNP): It of opportunity play a large part, brutalising lives and is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley, making them in turn prone to brutal responses. for the first but hopefully not the last time. Just last year, researchers at Birmingham University Knife crime, crime involving an object with a blade or found that one of the most important factors in the a sharp instrument, is a persistently worrying concern, significant increase in knife crime is unemployment. especially as it disproportionately impacts our young They found that a 1% increase in unemployment on the people and the disadvantaged. Worryingly, knife crime previous year increased knife crime by 1% to 2%. In in England and Wales has risen each year since 2014. In terms of numbers, a rise of unemployment levels from the year ending March 2020, there were around 46,300 5% to 6% would lead to more than 3,600 more knife offences involving a sharp instrument, 6% higher than crimes annually. in 2018-19 and 51% higher than in 2010. That trend is Unemployment, though important, is only part of a obviously a cause of great concern. much bigger story and according to analysis by the I bring to the attention of Members some positive all-party parliamentary group on knife crime and violence, news and hope for optimism in the fight to reduce the rise in knife crime can be linked to austerity budget violent crime overall, including knife crime: the success cuts, which have dramatically scaled back youth services of the Scottish violence reduction unit. Less than 20 years in parts of England and Wales. The hon. Member ago, knife crime was the basis of Glasgow’s unenviable for Vauxhall referred to that point. The link between reputation as the murder capital of Europe. The Scottish inequality and homicide rates has been shown in as violence reduction unit was established with funding many as 40 studies and the differences are large—there from the Scottish Government in 2005 to stem the tide are fivefold differences in murder rates between countries of homicides, gang violence and knife crime. Its strategy, such as the United Kingdom and Australia compared based on a public health approach to violence, treated it with those in Scandinavia, which is all related to inequality. like a disease and dealt with the causes, rather than the The most important reason why violence is symptoms, which was motivated by the belief that more common in more unequal societies is that it is violence is preventable, not inevitable. It has been hugely often triggered by people feeling marginalised, hopeless successful. This approach refers to a whole school of and without the opportunity to improve their lives and thought that suggests that, beyond the obvious health life chances. There is much that the police and other problems that result from violence—the psychological public services can do to manage and even reduce trauma and physical injuries—violent behaviour itself violent crime, but we as politicians have a bigger task on is an epidemic that spreads from person to person. our hands in countering the effects of poverty and In the last 16 years, the number of homicides in Scotland deprivation, which is inevitably linked to the prevalence has more than halved, from 137 in 2005, of which and increase of not only knife crime, but all crime. significant numbers involved knives, to just 64 last year. The approach has received worldwide attention and is Violence is preventable; it is not inevitable. We need endorsed by the World Health Organisation. It is a to continue to develop strategies that adopt a multi-agency strategy that works. The deputy Mayor for policing and approach to the reduction of crime, rather than dealing crime in London, Sophie Linden, and the Metropolitan with it just as a criminal justice matter. Police Commissioner, Cressida Dick, visited Scotland Recently, having sat on the Public Bill Committee on in 2018 to learn about the successful public health approach the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill—now deployed in Glasgow. The London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, with the House of Lords—I was pleased to see measures has already incorporated elements of that public health are being introduced to reduce violent crime through strategy in his knife crime strategy. It was announced in the introduction of a legal duty for local authorities, the 333WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 334WH

[Allan Dorans] people I have met have no concept of what might happen if they stab someone in the leg. They think, “They will police, education authorities and others to collaborate, be fine”, but of course they are not—the chances are, plan and share information to prevent and reduce serious they will die. If we had more uniformed organisations violence, including knife crime. As politicians, we need teaching people how dangerous those things are, but to do all we can to reduce knife crime by tackling how to use them safely, we might have a slightly different poverty and inequality and addressing the factors that approach to some of the issues. cause knife crime by providing hope and opportunity The spokesperson for the SNP, the hon. Member for for all in our society. That, along with other measures, Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Allan Dorans), talked about will I hope bring significant reductions in knife crime in the Scottish approach, which I know well. I visited and this country. spent a long time with people from the violence reduction unit in Scotland and with others in America who have 3.25 pm done similar things. The public health approach is Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab): It is a pleasure absolutely the right one. There is plenty of evidence, which to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. Apologies the Government are yet to pick up or act on, sadly. for my tardiness at the start, coming in a bit late. I had Yesterday, I was with a senior police officer who said made the schoolboy error of going to Westminster Hall to me, “We are in a perfect storm. We have had years of itself, but of course we are not there. cuts to services.” My hon. Friend the Member for I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Luton Luton North, I think, said that the children who suffered North (Sarah Owen) on securing this debate and on her the cuts 10 years ago are now the teenagers who are speech. I congratulate everyone who has spoken on the involved in knife crime, and that is exactly what the knowledgeable and thoughtful way in which they police officer was saying to me yesterday. He added approached a difficult topic. It is easy to have a sense of that, on top of that, we have had a year and a half of moral panic, which does not lead to solutions. I hope covid restrictions with people in lockdown. Now potentially that the Minister has listened to everything that has we face a summer of violence. been said by Members today on what needs to be done. Knife crime reached its highest level on record in Practical measures, for example, include what my 2019-20, at more than 50,000 offences. That is an hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) extraordinary number, which has doubled since 2013-14, said about bleed control kits. I have heard about and when there were 25,000 offences. Between 2010-11 and seen that campaign, and I have talked to Emily Spurrell 2019-20, knife crime rose in every single police force in about the great job that she will do and about the the country. Since 2014, there has been a 72% increase support that she needs. My hon. Friend and all Members in the number of 16 to 18-year-olds admitted to accident present are doing an incredible job on behalf of their and emergency for knife wounds and the most common constituents, trying to reduce violence. That has to be age group for victims of homicide recorded in the year the first job of us as politicians, to keep people safe. ending March 2020 was 16 to 24-year-olds. That was What more important job do we have? followed by 25 to 34-year-olds. While the effects of We heard from my hon. Friends the Members for lockdown saw a fall at the beginning of the year ending Lewisham East (Janet Daby) and for Vauxhall (Florence September 2020, there were still 47,119 offences: an Eshalomi) who, like me, are from south London average of 120 knife crimes a day. constituencies and have particular issues. My hon. Friend Last week, the UK’s anti-slavery commissioner found the Member for Lewisham East talked about relationships that for the first time more children than adults were with the black community. It is of course incredibly identified as potential modern slavery victims last year. important to understand that although I might feel that The commissioner’s annual report found that of the if something happens to me I can go to the police as my 10,689 potential victims referred to the national referral place of safety, there are communities that do not feel mechanism, 4,849 were children. The unrelenting rise, that. That needs to be fixed. which Members have discussed today, in county-lines I pay tribute to my police force in Croydon. Every drug dealing, where criminal gangs exploit children, is single week on Friday morning, the community and the fuelling violence. and the Government are simply not police meet. They have built relationships ever since the doing enough to stamp down on criminal drug gangs. death of George Floyd, to the point where there is a The Minister for Crime and Policing said last November: new trust and respect on both sides and a much better “Back in the early part of the previous decade, we thought we approach to things like handcuffing during stop and had beaten knife crime, but unfortunately it is back.”—[Official search. On that front, some brilliant activities by the police Report, 9 November 2020; Vol. 683, c. 595.] are going on. We need to harness and replicate those. He may be good at acknowledging that there is a I welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall, serious problem with serious violence in this country, who now chairs the APPG, which I founded and was but not so good at actually doing something about it. absolutely my baby for three years; these things are so More than 20 teenagers have been killed in London important. She is doing a brilliant job keeping up the this year and many more have had their lives cut short campaign. across the country. How many children will die before The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) the Government recognise this as the violent epidemic made an interesting speech. He was talking about what that it is? I came into the House in 2017 determined to I was talking to some police officers about the other day: tackle the scourge of rising levels of serious violence. I people who are in the Scouts learn how to use pocket set up and chaired the all-party parliamentary group on knives. People should learn how to use knives and what knife crime, and it is very sad to be speaking in the the implications might be, the knock-on impact, of using House today when yet another young life has been lost them wrongly and stabbing somebody. Many young in my constituency. Two weeks ago, a 16-year-old boy 335WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 336WH called Camron Smith was murdered in his own home in social care, council and police interventions over the front of his mother in a horrific murder that could have years—is probably absolutely extortionate, but all those been avoided. interventions do not actually amount to the protection Last week in the Chamber,I asked the Under-Secretary we need to give those children so that they are not of State for the Home Department, the hon. Member for getting involved in crime. Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), whether the It is time that we looked at the justice system and Government would commit to helping every vulnerable sentencing. That is a really difficult area because we are child this summer. She replied by saying that they were talking about children. We know that prison is not the doing that through increased investment through the answer, but the police would say that if a vulnerable and Department for Education funding over the summer, exploited child becomes involved in a criminal gang, but that funding is limited. It amounts to a few pennies per and he carries a knife, no one will tell the police, so they child and excludes a large number of children who might do not know. If he stabs someone in the leg as part of otherwise need safeguarding support. The Government’s the criminal activity, that person will go to hospital, but education recovery proposals are one tenth of Labour’s no one will tell the police, so they do not know. If he offer and, unlike Labour, contain no money for breakfast then gets caught with a knife, the police know, but there clubs or extra-curricular activities. The Under-Secretary is no intervention to take him out of that situation. He referred to the Youth Endowment Fund, which is welcome, will be referred to the youth offending team and there but it is £200 million over 10 years. Again, statistically, might be some kind of intervention. if we look at the number of children we need to help, This is very difficult, but I know of cases where that sum is small fry in comparison with what is needed. young people have been caught carrying knives and, I do not need to repeat the level of cuts to youth because there was no intervention at that point, they services that we have seen over this period of government, have gone on either to commit murder or to be murdered as well as the cuts to local government, policing, police themselves. This conversation is very difficult because staff, domestic-abuse risk officers and forensic officers. they are young children. Of course, we need to do all We have not just lost police officers on the beat; we have the prevention and intervention, but we also need to lost the whole apparatus behind that of people who think about when we do it. I know of a case where actually help prevent and solve crime. Wehave 8,000 fewer somebody was caught carrying a 3-foot zombie knife police staff now than we did 10 years ago and more and nothing happened as a result. I think the Minister than 7,000 fewer police community support officers. We needs to look at that. know that PCSOs were a key link between communities and the police: people we know, see and understand, The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse): and we and know their names. We have a relationship That is exactly what knife crime prevention orders with them and they might talk to someone’s mother if are for. that person got into trouble. That has been decimated Sarah Jones: As well as prevention, at some point, we by the Government. need to think about wrapping our arms around those We have heard many solutions and I think we would people. I do not think that knife crime prevention orders all be happy to sit down with the Minister and talk about are the answer, but they are being piloted. [Interruption.] those further. We know it is possible to reduce violence. The Minister talks about them from a sedentary position. As the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock He announced them with great fanfare in the middle of (Allan Dorans) says, violence is not inevitable. We know the knife-crime panic a couple of years ago, but nothing that things can be done. We know that knife crime goes has actually happened yet. They are being piloted now, in peaks and troughs and when there are interventions, two years after they were talked about as the answer to violence goes down. However, those interventions need everything. I am just saying that we need to have a to be long term and rooted in communities. conversation about the pathway and about exactly what It is important that the Government, local authorities, happens to young people when they come to the attention the police and the voluntary sector are able to join of the police. together to prevent, recognise and respond to violence. As I said in the Chamber last week, our summer Central to that is the need to prevent the criminalisation holidays should be full of opportunities, including youth of children, as well as early intervention to prevent work, mentorship programmes, sports clubs, mental young people from becoming involved in violence in the health support, as well as good neighbourhood policing, first place. So many cases of youth violence tell the same of course.In the medium term, we need proper wraparound sad story in which the victim and the young person support for at-risk children, including different housing inflicting violence have both had adverse childhood when it is needed—moving people away from the area experiences. where they are susceptible to violence is a huge issue— We need to look to authorities such as Lambeth people to talk to, mentoring, and proper youth services. Council. Over the summer, Lambeth has taken the In the longer term, we need to completely change the approach of identifying the most vulnerable children—the way that we tackle violence. The Government need to 100 most vulnerable, say—who are at risk of getting do more work in schools to better detect, prevent and involved in crime or who are already involved in crime. eliminate violence, and they need to work with the NHS The council has a plan for what each of those children to properly treat the epidemic and immunise our society. will be doing over the summer and where—for example, Under this Government, criminals are getting away this week, that child will be going to this activity; the with it, pathways to crime are wide open, and our following week, they will go to that one, and so on. That children are being exploited by criminal thugs and is a really interesting and important approach, and one groomed into violence. Our justice system is not taking that we can look at replicating. The amount of money the right response, and our Government are not taking that we spend on interventions with our young people— the problem seriously. My question to the Minister is: 337WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 338WH

[Sarah Jones] number of officers in the Metropolitan police has been consistently higher than it was at the all-time low for where is the emergency summer plan to stop our children murder in the capital, which was 2014. That number has fighting and murdering one another over the summer been consistently higher ever since; much of that has holidays, and how does he plan to stop riots over the been down to Government funding, and obviously, that summer? Knife crime prevention orders have not been number will go higher still. We believe that those police piloted yet; the education recovery plan is one tenth of officers will make a big difference—including the 74 in what it needs to be; the Youth Endowment Fund is spread Bedfordshire so far, with more to come—and that by super-thin over 20 years; and the summer activities fund having a significant police presence in a focused way, we amounts to pennies per child. We need action. The scale can do an awful lot of preventive work tonight. of the problem needs to be matched by a proper response, The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock because at the moment, drug use is rising, crime is (Allan Dorans) has referenced the experience of Glasgow. rising, and the Government have no summer plan. I met Karyn McCluskey, who was leading the charge in Ian Paisley (in the Chair): Minister,it is your opportunity. Glasgow all those years ago. It is often forgotten that You have lots of issues to respond to. police enforcement played a very significant role in the fight against knife crime in Glasgow. Certainly in the 3.40 pm early years, it was the use of heavy police enforcement, identifying and removing knives from the street, that The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse): created the space for some of those other,more supportive, It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, therapeutic interventions to take place, and police Mr Paisley. I should begin by recognising the important enforcement still has a part to play. Although Scotland reason that the hon. Member for Luton North has had success on knife crime, sadly it is still plagued to (Sarah Owen) referenced for raising this particular issue a certain extent by this offence: we have seen machete in debate, and expressing my condolences to the family gangs openly attacking people in the street in recent of Humza Hussain on that horrendous event, recognising times, as we have across the rest of the United Kingdom. that his family are sadly going through something that The experience of Glasgow is obviously something that too many families have gone through. Like the hon. we would love to learn from and benefit from across the Lady, I have sat with too many of those families over whole of the country. the years and seen the devastation that is wrought by these terrible acts, within the family, among friends and Critically, we are rolling out significant resources to loved ones, and in the wider community that is affected police forces across the land as we speak. Over the past by these events. couple of years, there has been a surge fund focused on those 18 forces in whose areas knife crime and violence It is clear from today’s debate that this is an important is most prevalent, and that funding has been used to issue to lots of Members from across the country, as good effect by the police. We are bringing a sharper indeed it is to me and to the whole Government. It focus to it this year, with the allocation of what we are should come as no surprise that it is an issue of importance, calling GRIP funding, which is looking at hotspots given that the Prime Minister was previously Mayor of where we want police to take a very targeted, analytical, London and dealt with a similar knife crime epidemic data-driven approach towards dealing with violence in in the capital, which was reflected across the whole of particular parts of their geography.That is now embedding the country, and he dealt with it successfully over that and will be in place during the summer. It is part of our period, if I might say so. It is not enough, but we plan to deal with a possible resumption of violence, managed to get the number of teenagers stabbed and post release from lockdown. killed in the capital down from 29 in 2008 to just eight in 2012, and kept it at a low level. That is obviously The hon. Lady is right that we saw a significant eight too many, but nevertheless we learned a lot during reduction during the past year, with a spike in August as that period, and we are trying to put that learning into we were released from lockdown. We have put in place effect as we do our work now. comprehensive plans with the police to ensure that we We are taking significant steps, and I had hoped that stay on top of any such repetition over the summer. That they might be recognised across the House, because a funding is rolling out now. I am personally driving that number of Members here represent areas of the country programme, and I have met lots of those forces to talk that are particularly affected by knife crime—areas about how they are going to put that funding into place. where we have been both putting in significant extra We are now in year three of violence reduction units, resources and galvanising effort to try to achieve a step which similarly received significant funding as part of change in the response of all the partners who are required our £130 million package this year. In my experience of to tackle knife crime: not just the police, or indeed the year three, we are seeing a much greater sophistication Government, but everybody else as well. That has involved in violence reduction units, and a much greater level of personal effort as well as investment across the piece, partnership in areas that receive that funding. For example, not just with the police but in local government. I sat down with representatives from Greater Manchester I will begin by reflecting on the police. As Members this morning, to go through their plans and look at know, we are recruiting a huge number of police officers their violence reduction work. It was very powerful and at the moment: the latest published figure is approaching a sign that those units have matured in terms of the 9,000. We are well ahead of schedule on getting 20,000 identification of individuals and what they are going to extra police officers, with many parts of the country do to support and assist them in turning away from back to where they were pre-2010 in terms of numbers. knife crime. In important parts of the country,of course, police-officer That is a critical part of our architecture in 18 parts numbers have remained high. For example, in London—we of the country. Bedfordshire has a unit that has received have three Members representing London here today—the funding of £2.6 million. It is a valuable hub for the 339WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 340WH co-ordination of work that is needed to fight violent Jim Shannon: In my contribution, I referred to the crime. We have now funded eight interventions across need for a strategy or partnership between the Minister’s Bedfordshire, reaching about 12,000 young people. I Department and education. Is that part of the strategy? hope that that will have an impact in the hon. Lady’s If it is, I believe that is core to changing the mindset but constituency, as it will across the rest of the county. A also to improving the situation. I just ask the question. number of Members made the point that, at the same time as looking towards the police to help with enforcement Kit Malthouse: That is a good question. It is certainly immediately—tonight, because we know there are people the case that violence reduction units, which are led out there carrying knives—we must also do the long-term locally, include wider education programmes, and I work that targets the crime at its root. That will be done, have seen good examples of that. They are there to as the hon. Lady said, by investing in prevention and generally educate young people about the dangers of early intervention. carrying a knife, and the fact that someone carrying a The hon. Lady disparaged the amount of money that knife is more likely to be a victim than to protect is being invested through the Youth Endowment Fund, themselves. I have seen some imaginative use of such but that misunderstands what the fund is there to do. It programmes. I was in the west midlands a couple of is investing in transforming our understanding of what weeks ago, where a virtual reality set-up was used with works, ensuring that it sits alongside other organisations, schoolchildren to indicate to them the best way in which funding grants and evaluation programmes, so that they to continue their lives. can maximise their spending, whether that is local I know that the hon. Gentleman has taken a strong authorities, police and crime commissioners, police forces interest in the Bill. It contains serious violence reduction or health services, many of which will have to work orders, which give the police the power, as the hon. alongside one another in the fight on serious violence, Member for Croydon Central pointed out, to stop those once the serious violence duty comes into place later individuals who are known knife carriers, and are known this year. to have been convicted in the past and to have shown a proclivity to violence. They are designed to discourage Wewant to ensure that every pound spent has significant and deter people from carrying weapons, given the impact. In my experience of talking to many of the increased likelihood of getting caught, and to protect groups working with young people to prevent crime, offenders—to give them an excuse to move away from although they are often well meaning and committed, being drawn into exploitation by criminal gangs. there is often a paucity of evidence, a lack of an investable proposition that what they are doing is working, Florence Eshalomi: On the serious violence reduction beyond the anecdotal. There are some programmes orders, can the Minister confirm that there will be a full that we are investing significant amounts of money in, evaluation before they are rolled out across the country? which we know have an effect, and where there is evaluation. Kit Malthouse: They have been through significant For example, there is our investment in programmes scrutiny. Obviously, they will be rolled out subject to that look at teachable moments, where young people evaluation, as we are doing with knife crime prevention have a moment of crisis that allows us to get into their orders. As the hon. Lady said, we are piloting those at thinking and steer them on to a different path, either in the moment in London. Those orders have both a police custody or accident and emergency, hopefully the positive and a negative impact. For example, somebody former. Investing in that holds enormous promise and subject to a knife crime prevention order can be stopped the evaluation shows that it is a strong way to get people from going into Croydon town centre, but at the same out of violence and, in particular, out of gangs, and to time in the same order be required to attend an anger move them on to a better life. management course or some kind of training course—some positive activity that would steer them in the right We want to ensure that all the money we spend is direction. We will look at any innovation that comes spent on trained, professional, therapeutic intervention. forward and pilot it and try it. Such is the urgency of There are other funding pots that can look at the more the problem that there is no monopoly on ideas; we general provision around youth services, and I recognise should be willing to try everything. what has been said about those over the years. We want to ensure that our crime prevention focus is sharp and We can also do more to remove knives. Last week, we targeted, to ensure that we can exactly target the young commenced the provisions of the Offensive Weapons people the hon. Member for Croydon Central (Sarah Jones) Act 2019, bringing in a ban on a range of knives and pointed to in Lambeth, to ensure that they head towards other weapons: specific firearms; cyclone knives, which a life of truth and light. are a sort of spiral knife—Members may have seen those deeply unpleasant weapons for sale online—and Alongside that, there is a lot we can do from a rapid-fire rifles. Anyone who possesses these weapons legislative point of view. could now face up to 10 years in prison. We think that Alongside that, there is a lot we can do from a this ban will help save lives and get more weapons off legislative point of view. The Police, Crime, Sentencing the street. Certainly, as part of the surrender programme, and Courts Bill has been referenced. As I mentioned, enormous numbers of these weapons have been surrendered that contains the important serious violence duty, which to us. for the first time will put a statutory obligation on all Although I understand the desire of Members present partners in an area to come alongside the police and to push the Government to ever greater efforts, I would work to prevent violence, plan, understand the data, like to reassure everybody that there is an enormous look at what the funding streams might be and leverage amount of effort and commitment going in, both at the off each other. Home Office and the Ministry of Justice, and more 341WH Tackling Knife Crime20 JULY 2021 Tackling Knife Crime 342WH

[Kit Malthouse] next year and the year after? Children deserve to be invested in, which was the point that my hon. Friends widely at the Department for Education and among all the Members for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi) and for those partners who are required to drive down this Lewisham East (Janet Daby) made so eloquently. We problem. I know that there has been a lot of challenge are talking about children and they deserve a future this afternoon about the amount of resources going in. that is much brighter than the one that is currently on I just point out that when I was deputy Mayor of offer from this Government. London dealing with a knife crime epidemic back in When it comes to tackling poverty, my hon. Friend 2008, that was when spending under Gordon Brown the Member for Lewisham East said it perfectly: if we was at an all-time high. Police officer numbers were tackle poverty,we tackle crime. Our shadow spokesperson, similarly high and there were youth groups all over the my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central place. Yet still our young people were stabbing each (Sarah Jones), said precisely what the police officer had other in great numbers. The connection between knife relayed to her: austerity and deprivation are a perfect crime and social structure is not as simple as people storm for criminals. sometimes portray. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) eloquently pointed out the importance of investment in Sarah Jones: Will the Minister give way? youth services. Those are essentials, not additional extras. They should be an essential part of every young person’s Kit Malthouse: No, because I am running out of time. life growing up. I finish by posing a question. We think this is a I thank everyone for their heartfelt, thoughtful and priority and we are putting enormous effort into it, but intelligent contributions. I am surprised that the Minister the challenge has been made that the issue is very much was by himself representing the party of Government, about poverty. What if it were the case that violence given that we know that knife crime and serious and causes poverty, not poverty, as a number of Members violent crime have increased in every single force over have alleged, that causes violence, and that our job, in the last 10 years. We should all tackle this matter order to create prosperity in Luton, Vauxhall and together, across the political divide. I know the problem everywhere else, is to clear that violence out of the way cannot be solved in this room in 90 minutes, so is the so people can build the lives for themselves and their Minister willing to meet me and colleagues from Luton children that they deserve? North to tackle the issue and continue the work that is going on, but in a long-term and strategic fashion, not 3.55 pm in the short-term and reactionary way that has failed Sarah Owen: We have covered a lot of ground during children time and again? these 90 minutes and I want to touch on a couple of Question put and agreed to. points. Resolved, My hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill That this House has considered tackling knife crime. Esterson) made a point about funding being too short term. It was great to hear the Minister reel off the pots of funding that have suddenly been made available, but 3.57 pm that is reactionary and short-termist. What happens Sitting suspended. 343WH 20 JULY 2021 Welfare System and Child Poverty: 344WH Wales Welfare System and Child Poverty: the UK and Welsh Governments. It is worth considering Wales the drivers of poverty: namely, people’s incomes and their cost of living. On the former, with universal credit 4.5 pm as an example, the current temporary £20 uplift was a step in the right direction to bolster incomes from the Ian Paisley (in the Chair): Welcome to this afternoon’s effects of the pandemic. The number of people claiming debate. As you know, there are special arrangements in universal credit has nearly doubled in Wales, to more place because of covid. I only remind Liz Saville Roberts, than 280,000 by June 2021. However, the uplift is not who is appearing virtually, that she will be on camera enough, and it has been estimated that 26,373 Welsh the whole time. I know she will already be aware of that, households, including 38,014 children in those households, but I say it for the record. are still unable to meet their costs, even with the uplift. Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]: I The uplift is now due to be removed, and modelling beg to move, carried out by Policy in Practice estimates that 47,543 That this House has considered the welfare system and child Welsh households, including 53,065 children, will be poverty in Wales. unable to meet their costs. The numbers are huge, but Diolch yn fawr iawn, Mr Paisley. It is a pleasure to they should not blind us to the reality of the experience serve under your chairmanship, and I welcome the of every family and every child. Minister to his place. I wish to debate the welfare In an answer to a written question from my hon. Friend system and child poverty in Wales. the Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams), the Department The current welfare system in Wales is failing many for Work and Pensions confirmed on 6 July that no thousands of children. Even before coronavirus, almost assessment had been made of the impact of the uplift’s a quarter of people in Wales were in poverty, living removal on child poverty in Wales, yet Wales is the UK precarious and insecure lives. That included 200,000 nation most afflicted by poverty. Does the Minister children. Something institutional is happening to drive really believe that it is not possible to produce an a longer-term rise in child poverty, with 20 of Wales’s assessment of the impact of their own universal credit 22 local authorities seeing an increase over the past five uplift policy, and that it is appropriate not to do so in years. Of course, covid-19 has exacerbated the inequality relation to child poverty? I would like a response from by hitting low-income families hardest, which means the Minister on that. that Wales now suffers the highest rate of child poverty Not only is the removal of the uplift utterly damaging of any nation in the UK. Shockingly, one in three children to children, it makes little economic sense. Rather than lives in poverty. I am sorry to say that the situation is pulling the rug out from under people midway through likely to deteriorate further, as the Institute for Fiscal the year, retaining the uplift permanently would help Studies estimates that 39% of children will be living in secure the UK’s family safety net and boost consumer poverty by the end of the year. As Plaid Cymru’s spending in Wales, aiding the long-term economic recovery. spokesperson for social justice and equalities, Senedd The End Child Poverty network has said that any Member Sioned Williams said recently: “credible plan to end child poverty…must include a commitment “It’s a national scandal; a damning reflection of the impact of to increase child benefits.” Conservative austerity and 20 years of the failure of Labour in That should include revoking the removal of universal credit Wales to do little more than manage poverty.” uplift and extending it to those people on legacy benefits. The United Nations convention on the rights of the Despite the Government’spromised levelling-up agenda, child sets out the rights to which all children are entitled the chair of the UK Social Mobility Commission said and against which the performance of Governments, today that it is “nowhere near” achieving this aim, as both in Westminster and in Cardiff, should be measured. the UK lacks proper plans and policies. Its social mobility For children living in poverty in Wales, many of those in 2021 report also criticises the punitive two-child rights go unmet. Children and young people are going benefit cap in universal credit. That was echoed by the hungry, and they are unable to access the basic clothing Children’s Commissioner for Wales, who this year called and equipment necessary for school. When a family on the DWP to lift the cap, noting that it is a significant cannot afford to pay for the oil to heat water, meaning barrier to alleviating child poverty, given that the loss of that they cannot have a bath, it takes no great leap of benefits is worth £2,700 per child per year. the imagination to understand why children will not go The cost of living was recently illustrated in the to school to suffer bullying and teasing, and little further Bevan Foundation’sreport entitled “Asnapshot of poverty imagination is needed to see how children’s education in spring 2021”, which gives grim account of the situation suffers as a result. That is what we mean when we say that facing families and children in Wales. It found that children living in poverty are more likely to have adverse households with children are more likely to face rising childhood experiences—those are the real effects on costs and a squeeze in living standards compared with individual families—and to face economic and social households without children. The increase in the cost of exclusion, resulting in worse life outcomes as adults. It living for families with children is likely to be exacerbated is important that we have an illustration to bring that by the predicted increase in inflation over the coming home to us. months. The UK’s annual rate of consumer price inflation Although poverty is not inevitable, it is a structural was 2.5% in June, up from just 0.7% in March, and is set feature of the current welfare system that has been to go higher. Of course, that will affect the cost of exacerbated by the failure of the Welsh Government to living. In response to the Bevan Foundation report, the address the cost of living, which led them to miss Welsh Government said: meeting their own target of eradicating child poverty by “The key levers for tackling poverty—powers over the tax and 2020. In today’s debate, it is important to show how the welfare systems—sit with the UK Government, but we are doing jagged edge of devolution—the incoherent illogicality everything we can to reduce the impact of poverty and support of what is devolved and what is retained—indicts both those living in poverty.” 345WH Welfare System and Child Poverty: 20 JULY 2021 Welfare System and Child Poverty: 346WH Wales Wales [Liz Saville Roberts] that policy would require the devolution of welfare powers from Westminster, with an agreement to ensure Sadly, Labour in Wales seems to want to have it that the Department for Work and Pensions—this is both ways. It acknowledges that the key levers of policy important—would not claw back any payments. Does are controlled at Westminster. Yet First Minister the Minister agree that the proposed targeted child Mark Drakeford opposes having control over those payment would indeed help alleviate child poverty? levers, as he believes—for some reason—that the powers What reason or reasons can he give for not supporting are better off at UK level. That prompts the question of the devolution of such powers to the Senedd, in line whether Labour in Wales is serious about tackling child with Holyrood, especially given that they would be of poverty or content to avoid the implicit responsibility if financial benefit to the Welsh budget? it were to be equipped with the means to make a The Welsh Government have yet again decided to difference. defer the issue of pursuing further powers as they are The claim that the Welsh Government are doing all waiting for further evidence to emerge. Just such an they can with their current powers is a questionable and opportunity will arise during the Welsh Affairs Committee’s dubious one. Free school meals are just one example. upcoming review into the benefit system in Wales, which Labour here in Westminster has praised Marcus Rashford has broad terms of reference and deals directly with the for his relentless campaigning on the issue in England, questions of what reforms are needed to the benefit while simultaneously running a Government in Wales system and what the further devolution of powers might that refuse to extend free school meal eligibility to all be able to achieve. I therefore ask the Minister whether children whose families are in receipt of universal credit, his Department will commit to take forward the which is some 70,000 more children. That is despite Committee’s recommendations in full, even if that does extensive reports, including their own child poverty indeed involve the further devolution of welfare powers review, on the benefits and how expanded provision to Wales. Will the Department approach this with an could be funded within the existing Welsh budget. open mind and with that commitment? It is also within the gift of the Welsh Government to Tackling the injustice of child poverty is vital if the do more with the other powers available to them, such potential of every single child in Wales is to be realised as the consolidation of housing, education and emergency in full. It is disgraceful that in one of the richest states in health benefits, which are complementary to the reserved the world, poverty is such a widespread feature of our UK system, to develop a distinct Welsh benefits system. society. With the full devolution of welfare, Wales could Those measures would certainly help mitigate,but ultimately develop a more compassionate system as part of the they would not end child poverty. creation of a Welsh wellbeing state, which would ensure That leads me inevitably towards what we could do if that no child is held back by their family’s lack of welfare powers were devolved from Westminster to the wealth or status. Plaid Cymru laid out that bold agenda Senedd. First, there is the more limited proposed devolution in our Senedd 2021 manifesto, which included a new of the administrative powers over welfare, which would child poverty Act as a road map to eradicate child still allow the Senedd to take positive steps to tackle poverty, and a target of reducing the number of children child poverty by boosting the incomes of struggling experiencing relative poverty to 10% by 2030. The abolition families via increasing frequency of payments, ending of poverty and inequality needs to be a core national the culture of sanctions and ensuring payments to mission but, as I have outlined, that cannot be achieved individuals rather than to households. That is something if we do not have our hands on the key levers of welfare that Mark Drakeford himself has said that he wants, and tax policy. and it has already been recommended by the Senedd’s Poverty is a multi-faceted problem that requires a Equality,Local Government and Communities Committee. range of interventions to address it. We cannot do that I therefore ask the Minister what conversations the in Wales without those key levers, in the form of power DWP has had with the Welsh Government about the over welfare. I therefore implore the Government to devolution of administrative powers over welfare. Of respond when the evidence is overwhelming and give course, the administration of welfare is merely a stopgap control over welfare to the people of Wales so that we towards the devolution of welfare powers, with the aim can end the blight of child poverty in our communities of bringing Wales to parity with Scotland at the very for good. Diolch yn fawr iawn. least. In 2016, the UK Government gave Scotland control 4.18 pm over 11 welfare benefits and the ability to create new social security benefits or policy areas. The Wales The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work Governance Centre subsequently published a report in and Pensions (Will Quince): It is a pleasure to serve April 2019, which stated that giving Wales the same under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I thank the right powers over benefits as Scotland could boost the budget hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) of Wales by £200 million a year. Under those proposals, for securing a debate on this hugely important issue. I the Senedd would have the power to determine the share many of the concerns that she has expressed about structure and value of benefits, and replace existing poverty levels in Wales. I do not want to see a single benefits with new ones,in line with the legislative framework. child in Wales, which she knows I have huge affection An example of just one such new benefit is Plaid for, or anywhere else in our United Kingdom, growing Cymru’s proposal for a targeted child benefit. That up in poverty. would involve payments of initially £10 a week per It is absolutely right that all Governments are held child, rising to £35 per week over a Senedd term, to properly to account for the effectiveness of their policies families living below the poverty line. It would be a for tackling child poverty. Although I do not have all direct intervention to address child poverty.Implementing the levers to tackle child poverty within the Department 347WH Welfare System and Child Poverty: 20 JULY 2021 Welfare System and Child Poverty: 348WH Wales Wales for Work and Pensions, I assure the right hon. Lady that Helping people back into work is also key to levelling I take this issue incredibly seriously, and I am working up across Great Britain. My Department is playing a with my counterparts across Government to identify central role in the Government’s ambitious £30 billion and address the root causes and drivers of child poverty. plan for jobs, which is already delivering for people of Our working relationship with the Welsh Government all ages across the country. This includes over £7 billion is well established and positive. The commitments made on new schemes, such as the kickstart scheme, which in to Wales by the UK Government are central to delivering Wales is running alongside Youth Offer Wales for people policies and services across the Union. We will continue aged over 16. Since the kickstart scheme launched last to work closely with the Welsh Government on the September, over 8,000 kickstart jobs have been advertised commitments set out in their programme for government in Wales, and over 2,000 young people have started in 2021 to 2026. An example is our collaboration with roles. Careers Wales to revisit our redundancy offer and develop During the last financial year, we fulfilled our the service through a digital platform. In adapting our commitment to recruit 13,500 more work coaches across approach, we maintained distance support, one-to-one Great Britain and our jobs army is working across all advice and fully engaged with employers to guide them regions to give people the support needed to find and their workforce through the full package of support employment. Each work coach receives specialist training from both the DWP and the Welsh Government. to give in-depth knowledge of local labour markets, Over the past year, our priority has been to help matching the skills of the claimant with the needs of families in all parts of our United Kingdom withstand businesses in their area. Under our rapid estate expansion the financial hardships brought about by the covid-19 programme, or REAP, we are opening new job centres pandemic. Such unprecedented times and circumstances to accommodate the work coaches. I refer the right hon. have called for an unprecedented response.The Government Lady to the opening on 19 May of a new site on Queen have delivered this by spending over £407 billion on Street in Cardiff, which is now fully operational, with support measures to mitigate the impact of the pandemic, over 63% of interventions carried out face to face. Plans including the furlough scheme and the self-employment are underway to open additional REAP sites in Wrexham, income support scheme. That has helped to protect Rhyl and Swansea. jobs, keep businesses afloat and help families get by. The evidence is clear that parental employment, Spending includes an additional £7.4 billion injected particularly full-time employment, substantially reduces into our welfare system to further support those most in the risk of child poverty. However, we know that having need, targeted at those facing the greatest economic a job is not always enough to lift families out of poverty. shock and financial disruption, and raising our total People also need the right skills and opportunities to spend on welfare support for people of working age to progress in their roles, so that they can increase their over £111 billion in 2020-21. Extra funding includes the earnings and build their careers. The independent in-work temporary £20 increase in the universal credit and working progression commission published its report on the tax credit standard allowances, which the right hon. barriers to progression for those in persistent low pay Lady referred to. In addition, nearly £1 billion has been on 1 July.We will consider its recommendations carefully spent on increasing local housing allowance rates to the before responding later in the year. I encourage the 30th percentile of local market rents, which we are Welsh Government and employers in Wales to do the maintaining for a further year at cash level. same. As we look to economic recovery,tackling child poverty The right hon. Lady raised a number of issues, and I will be very much at the heart of our mission. Wehave long will do my very best to respond to as many as possible championed the principle that the best way to do so is in the time remaining. First, she referred to devolution to support parents wherever possible to move into and in Wales. The Department for Work and Pensions is progress in work through our reformed welfare system, committed to delivering the St David’s Day agreement which ensures that families of all backgrounds are better in full. As she knows, the Wales Act 2017 implements off in work. The Department for Work and Pensions in the parts of the agreement that require primary legislation. Wales,in partnership with the Welsh Government, delivered However,employment and social security,as she mentioned two community project: Communities for Work, helping in her speech, did not form part of that agreement. The the economically inactive and long-term unemployed in previous Welsh Government commissioned work on some of Wales’ most disadvantaged wards; and Parents, the question of more devolution in the administration Childcare and Employment, for those for whom childcare of the benefits system, but they have made no request to is the main barrier to employment. Through these projects, the UK Government for further powers in that area. eligible parents can access support for childcare while A single labour market needs a system of financial training and gaining skills to get a job. Since both projects support for jobseekers and workers that provides a started in 2016, Communities for Work has helped almost common framework of support, conditions to be met in 11,500 customers to move off benefits and into work. return for that support, and access to employment and Statistics for 2019-20 show that before the pandemic training opportunities. As the right hon. Lady knows, the UK was in a strong position overall, with record levels that is delivered through universal credit and associated of employment, rising incomes and 1.3 million fewer employment provision, operated locally by Jobcentre people, including 3000,000 fewer children, in absolute Plus across Wales, and reflects both local labour markets poverty after housing costs, compared with 2010. In the and the differing needs of individuals. That not only right hon. Lady’s constituency, the proportion of children ensures a coherent system across a single labour market, in absolute low income reduced by three percentage with equal treatment regardless of geographical location; points to 16% before housing costs in 2019-20, compared it also allows for a pooled risk system that flexes and is with 19% in 2014-15. However, there is still a huge able to accommodate asymmetric economic circumstances amount to do. in different parts of the country. 349WH Welfare System and Child Poverty: 20 JULY 2021 Welfare System and Child Poverty: 350WH Wales Wales [Will Quince] household food security at 87% and marginal household food security at 6%. A minority of households were The right hon. Lady knows that in the Department food insecure, with low household food insecurity at for Work and Pensions, and in particular within my remit, 4% and very low household food insecurity at 4%. That there are two potential levers for tackling child poverty: is why we want that additional data, so that we can benefits and support for those of working age, and support really get to the bottom of the core drivers of food to get people into work and to progress in work. However, insecurity. she will know that some of the other drivers of child The right hon. Lady referred to the two-child policy. poverty, the root causes, are housing, education, health, We have a benefits structure that adjusts automatically. addiction, family breakdown and debt. Many of those If we were to set up, as she would like us to, a benefits are issues on which the Welsh Government can take structure that adjusted automatically to family size, it action. I know that they are doing so in many areas, and would be unsustainable. Statistics from the Office for she may wish to push them further. National Statistics show that, in 2020, of all families The right hon. Lady mentioned the removal of the with dependent children, 85% had a maximum of two universal credit uplift. As she rightly said, universal in their family, and for lone parents the figure was 83%. credit has provided a vital safety net for over 6 million The Government therefore feel that it is proportionate people during the pandemic. Weannounced the temporary to provide support through the child tax credit and uplift as part of a £400 billion package of measures that universal credit systems for a maximum of two children. will last well beyond the end of the road map. However, What I will say, though, is that we recognise that some it is right that we now focus on our multibillion pound claimants are not able to make the same choices about plan for jobs, which will support people in the long term the number of children in their family, and that is why by helping them learn new skills and increase their exceptions have been put in place. hours or find more work. I am conscious of the time and would be very happy The right hon. Lady rightly referred to a response to to pick this up with the right hon. Lady at a later date to a written parliamentary question from the hon. Member discuss some of the issues that I have not been able to for Arfon (Hywel Williams), in which I said that it was cover as part of my response now. To conclude, I restate not possible to produce a robust estimate of the impact the Government’s firm belief that the approach that we on child poverty of removing the £20 uplift. That is are taking to support families back into work is the particularly the case at the moment because of the right one for families, wherever they live across our uncertainty around the speed of our economic recovery United Kingdom, if we are to tackle child poverty in a and how that will be distributed across our population. way that is sustainable and to level up opportunities The right hon. Lady also rightly mentioned food across our country. Of course it is absolutely right that insecurity, which is an issue that concerns me too. We as the country begins to recover from the effects of the take the issue incredibly seriously, which is why we have, pandemic, we ensure that our welfare state continues to for the first time, published data on household food support the most disadvantaged; and as we have done insecurity from the family resources survey, in order to throughout the past 16 months, we will continue to get a better understanding of the lived experience of assess how best to target taxpayers’ money on support families. I have gone one step further: in subsequent for the most vulnerable families beyond the pandemic. editions of the survey,we will now ask questions specifically Question put and agreed to. on food bank use. The most recent data from the survey shows that most households were food secure, with either high household 4.31 pm food security or marginal household food security—high Sitting suspended. 351WH 20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 352WH

Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening We have some buses, but I am afraid they are an endangered species. They are very difficult to find. If 4.50 pm someone does find a bus, they might be able to travel into the Moorlands, but it is not easy. If someone gets Ian Paisley (in the Chair): Members are very welcome to Stoke train station with a view to visiting Alton and are of course aware that the social distancing rules Towers, which puts on special buses, or the Roaches, the no longer apply.They are no longer in operation. Members Manifold Valley or any of the other great attractions, attending physically should clean their spaces when they find that the only way to get public transport is to they arrive and when they leave. I think that is all I have walk about a mile and a half to Hanley where the bus to announce. It gives me great pleasure to call Karen station is—because, of course, the bus station is not in Bradley to move the motion. the same place as the train station in Stoke-on-Trent. Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con): I That person would then have to wait for a bus that is beg to move, usually hourly. Perhaps they might be lucky and the That this House has considered reopening the Stoke-Leek line. buses might be every half hour, but it is not easy and it takes a significant amount of time to get to the Staffordshire Or, as I like to call it, the Leek-Stoke line. Moorlands. This is a first for me. It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I know you are an Even if someone can get to Stoke-on-Trent station by impeccable Chair and your timing is even more impeccable, taking a taxi or finding a very amenable friend to give so I am delighted to serve under you. I am not sure them a lift, to get from the station to Leek—which is whether you have visited the Staffordshire Moorlands. where I live: the centre of the constituency—they could It is very much like the constituency that you represent—a drive along the main Leek road, which is the A52, the beautiful rural area. It has amazing scenery, lots of A5009 and the A53. To do so means travelling through great dairy farms, which you will understand, and some the constituencies of my hon. Friends the Members for great tourist attractions, although, unlike the Giant’s Stoke-on-Trent Central (JoGideon) and for Stoke-on-Trent Causeway, we have Alton Towers. North (Jonathan Gullis) before reaching the Staffordshire Moorlands. Many people come to visit the Staffordshire Moorlands. They come to see our amazing scenery. The Roaches, This route passes through some amazing parts of the for example, is a place that people travel to from all over city: Joiners Square, Abbey Hulton, Milton, then entering the world to do rock climbing and just to observe the Stockton Brook and then on through Endon, Longsdon, views; from there it is possible to see lots of different and finally into Leek. The problem is that it is a single-lane counties—I think I once counted 16 of them—and all carriageway. Actually, there is not a dual carriageway the way to Snowdonia. We cannot quite see the Isle of anywhere in the Staffordshire Moorlands constituency. Man or Northern Ireland, but we can see into Wales. One cannot legally go faster than 60 miles an hour, even We have the Manifold Valley, the beautiful Thor’s though some motorcyclists believe otherwise. It is a Cave, and a bit of Dovedale, which is also one of the genuinely beautiful route, which runs along a disused great tourist attractions. As well as Alton Towers, we railway line. It is absolutely stunning, but it is a very have the Peak Wildlife Park and Biddulph Grange slow road. Garden—beautiful places that people come to visit. We Alternatively, there is the A520, taking a route through have amazing hospitality venues such as the Lazy Trout the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for in Meerbrook, the Yew Tree at Cauldon, the Stafford Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack Brereton) and then on to Arms at Bagnall, and the Auctioneers—a community-run the Moorlands. That goes through Fenton and Longton, pub in Caverswall that I helped the community to buy Weston Coyney and Meir, to Cellarhead, Wetley Rocks, and is a fantastic place to visit. We have wonderful Cheddleton, Leekbrook and then into Leek. All of independent shops in all our towns and villages, but in these places are beautiful, ancient villages; they do not Leek we are very proud of our “Totally Locally”campaign have capacity to make the road any wider. On visiting and our local markets. We have a heritage railway in the Wetley Rocks, one discovers it really is rocks, driving Churnet Valley railway. We have so much to offer. along the edge of the cliff, so there is nowhere to go to The question one might ask when looking at the map extend that road. and seeing those wonderful attractions is, “How on So I ask: what can we do? If you are lucky, Mr Paisley, earth can I get there?” I am afraid to say that unless you might find you could get off the train at Stoke and I someone has a car it is a struggle. Last summer—we are would be waiting for you with my car, because I would seeing it again at the moment—the villages of the be delighted to give you a lift to Leek—obviously socially Staffordshire Moorlands were totally overwhelmed with distanced with appropriate facemasks and so on. If we traffic; we got to the point where emergency vehicles were lucky, it could take about 30 minutes. However, I could not get through. Villagers felt like prisoners in must say that I have driven from Stoke-on-Trent station their own homes because of the cars that were parked, back to my home in Leek, and it has taken over an hour and there is simply no other way to visit the Moorlands and a half. During rush hour, those two A roads that are than by car. the main roads into Leek from the city are absolutely We have a fantastic mainline station only a few miles full. They happen, at the moment, to have an enormous away in Stoke-on-Trent; the same line runs on to number of roadworks on them as well, which does not Macclesfield, of course. The train from Euston to Stoke help, but in normal times they are still absolutely full. takes one hour and 24 minutes when we are not on a There are some very difficult junctions on them, particularly reduced timetable as we are at the moment. If I can the junction at Endon going up to Clay Lake and make a plea to Avanti rail: we need two trains an hour Brown Edge and on the A520. My hon. Friend the to Stoke-on-Trent as soon as possible, because it really Member for Stoke-on-Trent South and I both know is not working at the moment with only one an hour. about the issues around the Advanced Proteins site and 353WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 354WH

[Karen Bradley] this wonderful heritage railway in the Moorlands, which has kept the track going for pleasure visits around the the fact that we have an awful lot of very heavy vehicles Moorlands on its steam trains. That heritage railway, travelling along that road and turning into the plant, with its use of the line, is a really important part of the causing congestion. bid. It really is not an easy journey, and it is getting I know the Minister is stepping in for my hon. Friend harder. Given the volume of traffic and the demand for the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), who journeys between the Moorlands and the city, I do not has sent his apologies. It is wonderful, though, to see the see that it is going to improve any time soon, and the Minister in her place. I am hoping she will say that she fact is that the Moorlands is missing out on the advantages will put personal endeavour into pushing this bid through. of being only a few miles from the west coast main line. The bid has been submitted and we want to ensure that It is missing out on the opportunities that the Government’s we get the funding we need, so that we can explore the investment in Stoke-on-Trent as part of the levelling-up possibilities. agenda is bringing to the area, because people simply We can see what could be achieved. We can see what cannot rely on being able to work or live in the Moorlands the opportunities are for passenger services. That might and commute to the city given that the commute is so be light rail; it might be different from what was envisaged unreliable. We really do need an alternative. when people closed the line—what it looked like then There are two alternatives, and the debate title gives and what it might look like today. We want to see what us a clue about what one of them is. There is another the possibilities are for freight on the line, but we need one, however, and it is that we could use the canals. We to have that time and the expertise of officials at the have a fantastic canal system built by James Brindley Department for Transport to work with, to explore for the purposes of Wedgwood, to bring the raw materials what is possible. from the Moorlands into the city where the potteries The line could not only go to Leek, but the line that were founded in Burslem—the mother of the potteries the heritage railway uses now—to Froghall, through in my hon. Friend for Stoke-on-Trent North’sconstituency Cheddleton and Consall—could be used. That line goes —but also around the whole city. to the village of Alton, where Alton Towers is. We have There are still fantastic potteries in the city, but it was one of the largest cement plants in the UK at Cauldon, the canals that made that possible. I love being on the which is also the line used by the heritage railway. There canal—it is a really wonderful day out—but I think we are real opportunities to get freight off the road and on would agree that it is probably not a good alternative to the railway line. for commuting into the city, given the speed at which In conclusion, I say to the Minister that all we want is one could travel. That then leaves us with one remaining a chance to see what is possible. I know she will use her alternative: to reopen the railway line between Leek and best endeavours to support us on this. I look forward to Stoke-on-Trent that closed as a victim of the Beeching hearing from my hon. Friends, who are all fully behind cuts. When it closed it was probably not very well used, this bid. but I know now that the demand is there, and that people want to get back to being able to commute into Ian Paisley (in the Chair): I thank Karen Bradley for the city from the Staffordshire Moorlands. Not only do moving that motion and painting such a pretty picture we not have a dual carriageway, but we do not have a postcardandadvertisementfortheStaffordshireMoorlands. mainline train line running through the constituency. It She probably won the record for name-checking every would be wonderful to bring these things back. single village in a constituency. If Members wish to remove their jackets, please feel free to do so because it This could be a fantastic clean, green alternative to is stifling in this room today. roads. Residents live very close to the road, with houses along the whole way. My hon. Friends from the city will describe the experiences of their constituents who live 5.4 pm alongside those roads, and the pollution and noise they Jack Brereton (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Con): It is a suffer. We have this alternative; the line is there. Only a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. couple of weeks ago, the four of us here—myself and I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for my hon. Friends the Members for Stoke-on-Trent Central, Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) on securing for Stoke-on-Trent North and for Stoke-on-Trent South— this excellent debate. I also welcome my hon. Friend the together with the leader of Staffordshire Moorlands Member for Erewash (Maggie Throup) to her first time District Council, Councillor Sybil Ralphs MBE, visited responding on behalf of the Government. I thank where the line travels between the Moorlands and the Ministers and the Department for Transport for the support city at Stockton Brook. The line and track bed are there they have given so far. The Restoring Your Railways and we stood on them. There is quite a lot of weed but Fund has been a model of excellence and innovation, the line is there; it can be reopened. We were pleased to about which the Government should be incredibly proud. be there and see for ourselves that that could be done. Ministers and civil servants across Government should A bid has gone in to the Restoring Your Railways pay great heed to it in developing future similar schemes. Fund. The bid is led by Staffordshire Moorlands District There is a clear need for reopening the Stoke-Leek Council and Councillor Sybil Ralphs, and is supported line. Our roads are full and one in three households in by Stoke-on-Trent City Council, and its leader Councillor Stoke-on-Trent has no access to a car; in some wards, it Abi Brown. We have the support of the local enterprise is as high as 40%. For access to skills and jobs, this partnership, Staffordshire County Council, North severely limits aspirations and opportunities. The situation Staffordshire Chambers of Commerce, the Peak District is made worse by the fact that our bus services have national park, local businesses and the key partner, the declined by around a third in the last decade. Congestion Churnet Valley railway. As I mentioned earlier, we have and air pollution have only become worse. 355WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 356WH

Additionally, there are no direct bus links between within easy walking distance. Most importantly, increased Leek and Stoke station, as my right hon. Friend the numbers of Fenton residents would have easy access to Member for Staffordshire Moorlands described, nor do rail, opening up employment, education and leisure they directly serve Fenton. Operators have said that the opportunities, including the Moorlands countryside, as main reasons for bus decline are the challenges faced by my right hon. Friend eloquently described. running a reliable service, given how congested some of Equally,this would plug a whole number of communities our roads are. In many cases, they now run fewer along the line directly into proposed High Speed 2 services during peak hours than during the rest of the services feeding Stoke station and beyond. Public transport day, because they just get stuck in the congestion. journeys between Fenton Manor and Leek would plummet Our roads are operating well above capacity and from 55 minutes to around 18 minutes, and fall from where others may have seen recent improvements, with 20 minutes to just three minutes between Fenton Manor more people working from home, our local manufacturing, and Stoke station. Properly integrated with the bus distribution and retail industries mean congestion is network, with funding that we also hope to secure almost back to normal levels. Victoria Road in Fenton through the Bus Back Better Fund, journey time savings Manor is notorious for sitting traffic and it is under from reopening the line could be felt much more widely ministerial directions to improve on the significant breaches across the whole of north Staffordshire. It could halve of air quality limits, including nitrogen dioxide levels. I public transport journeys across my constituency alone. fully support the city council in its efforts to address Only through enhancing public transport will we fully that; a proposal was submitted recently to Ministers. realise the benefits of HS2. The alternative is that a Better public transport will also be a key part of this. journey for just the final few miles will end up taking Fenton once had two stations: Fenton Manor was lost longer than the entire HS2 journey. in 1956 and Fenton station on the Crewe-Derby line By more than halving journey times—potentially, closed in 1961. Those were the bad old days of the more than two thirds at peak times—the real benefits of north Staffordshire railways decline, exacerbated by enhanced transport connectivity can be fully realised. industrial decline. Where many parts of the country By freeing up some of the road capacity, there will be have seen local stations and lines return since that axe advantages for motorists, too, and more reliable buses fell, there is a great chasm in north Staffordshire where attracting people back on to public transport. It is also nothing has reopened. In fact, it got worse with the west worth noting that single-stop rail travel between local coast upgrade, with services removed from Wedgwood stations in Stoke-on-Trent is often considerably cheaper and Barlaston, and Etruria closed entirely to shave off than single-journey bus travel. just a few minutes. I am pleased to support my hon. To conclude, reopening the Stoke-Leek line is a highly Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon) realistic option for levelling up opportunities in one of in her bid to reopen Etruria station. the most deprived cities in the entire country. It would Improving our local public transport, both rail and reconnect communities and radically reduce journey bus, is absolutely vital. New employment and housing times. Crucially, it would help us to reach a critical mass growth cannot be accommodated within the constraints of public transport provision that we currently lack. I of current car-focused networks. We are one of the hope that our bid to explore reopening in detail is won fastest growing cities: housing development numbers and that the Government support our proposals fully. are way above target, with more than the average London borough, and 99% are on brownfield land. 5.10 pm Stoke-on-Trent is on the up and the reindustrialisation of the local economy over the last decade needs an Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): It is a efficient and comprehensive transport network. That pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. includes options for rail. Reopening the Stoke-Leek line I congratulate my constituency neighbour and right would not be happening in a vacuum. Work is under hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands way to deliver on the Transforming Cities Fund, improving (Karen Bradley) on securing this important debate. We local bus flows, revitalising Longton station and creating are hearing the hymn of us all singing to the same tune. a transport hub, with Stoke station connected by a Ultimately, it is so important for the connectivity of dedicated last-mile bus corridor through the city centre. Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire Moorlands and north The reopening of Meir station, east of Longton, Staffordshire that we see not just the Stoke-to-Leek line, which was lost under the Beeching Act—something but the Meir station bid, which is led by my hon. Friend that I have championed—is an advanced project under the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack Brereton), the Restoring Your Railways Fund. We are actively and the Etruria station bid put in by my hon. Friend the seeking to reopen a station, also lost under Beeching, to Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon). I am serve Trentham. By delivering all these priorities, we proud to be a co-signatory and co-supporter of the can build that critical rail mass for north Staffordshire Stoke toLeek line. to make public transport a much more viable option, It looks like we want all the sweeties from the jar, but particularly with the development of integrated ticketing. we are saying that Stoke-on-Trent and the Staffordshire Employers, educators and providers right along the Moorlands have been long overlooked. My right hon. line all support the benefits that would come through Friend lives in Leek, so she knows that it is one of the reopening the line, as my right hon. Friend the Member largest towns in the country, at 21,000 residents, and yet for Staffordshire Moorlands suggested. A station at one of the only towns of that size that does not have a Fenton Manor would be vital to serve many of my rail station in it, which is utterly bizarre in itself. constituents. St Peter’s Academy and the main Fenton If we are ever to hit net zero, which is an important Manor sports complex would be directly served by a agenda that we should be aiming for, there have to be station at Fenton Manor. Fenton Park would also be public transport options to enable people no longer to 357WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 358WH

[Jonathan Gullis] from the levelling-up fund, we will unlock hotel space, office space and homes right by Stoke-on-Trent railway have to use the car. If we are to allow people from station. We also hope that the Home Office will make Stoke-on-Trent opportunities to work at, maybe, one that location their new HQ for the 560 new jobs that the day in the future, Alton Towers, which supports the bid Stoke-on-Trent MPs and Councillor Abi Brown have and has discussed the potential of linking the line to its secured as part of the Places for Growth programme theme park at a later date, there is a long-term benefit run from the Cabinet Office. for tourism opportunities. Alton Towers gets about My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South 2.1 million visitors directly and, pre-covid-19 pandemic, always uses this line, and I absolutely love it: getting to Stoke-on-Trent city received about 6 million visitors a Stoke-on-Trent is not the problem. We have the M6, the year. The problem for Stoke-on-Trent, however, is that A50 and the A500, we have the west coast main line, 5.7 million to 5.8 million of them were day visitors. and we have HS2 with the Handsacre link coming, so A public transport network can link the Peak national getting to us is not the issue. Getting around the city park and, potentially, Alton Towers. It can connect our is the problem: getting around north Staffordshire is fantastic cities, so people could visit the fantastic and where the problems lie, and when roads such as the A50 award-winning Gladstone Pottery Museum in the south and the A500 are at 110% capacity despite the fact that or the mightily superior Middleport Pottery museum 30% of the people of Stoke-on-Trent do not have access up in Middleport, where shows such as “Peaky Blinders” to a private vehicle, there is clearly a big gap in the and “The Great Pottery Throwdown” have been filmed. market for public transport. We can then start to say to people that tourism is more We would love to be able to say that we just want the than just a day visit to the north of Staffordshire; it railways, but we need buses as well, because we have had becomes longer term and creates more jobs. Given that a massive reduction in our bus usage over the past tourism is our second largest employer in the whole of decade, from 15 million to 9.3 million journeys. This Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent combined, it is an reduction means that people in Brindley Ford, which I important market. Let us not forget that the pandemic represent, in Great Chell and Packmoor,which is superbly has made it so difficult for that sector,so better connectivity represented by Councillor Janine Bridges, in Milton, can only help us bounce back quicker in those types of which used to be represented by my hon. Friend the industries. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South and is now represented I am proud to serve Stoke-on-Trent, North. We have by Councillor Dave Evans, Councillor James Smith and fantastic schools, for example, such as the Excel Academy Councillor Carl Edwards, and in other remote parts of in Sneyd Green, a council ward I share with my hon. the constituency cannot get to and from, or around, the Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central. A railway city. We seem to have bus links that do not link up our line could link that closely, as it could the Birches Head main retail units, our main business parks, and our Academy in Stoke-on-Trent Central. Parents would not main hubs of transport and the city centre. That means have to go on already congested roads and the children that bus fares have become too expensive, and that would have an opportunity to access the city and to get means that people are not using the buses, as I said. to and from school, pretty much door to door, by the That is why I completely agree with my hon. Friend that railway network. we do not just want rail: we need to “bus back better” if That would also mean that the people of Leek and of we are ever truly going to make sure that we deliver for Milton—a fantastic little village, which again I share our constituents in Stoke-on-Trent. my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central— I want to moan a bit about the roads as well, because could think about getting to and from Stoke-on-Trent if we do not get this line, I will be banging on the door Sixth Form College, with its UK-leading digital T-levels, of the Department for Transport relentlessly to talk and Staffordshire University, which is the UK leader in about the funding formula for national roads. I represent video games technology. We, the Stoke-on-Trent MPs, Kidsgrove and Talke, which is part of Staffordshire want to make Silicon Stoke our real agenda. With our County Council, so I am sure that Councillor Alan White gigabit broadband already in the ground, and with and maybe even my right hon. Friend the Member for those students, better connectivity will create business Staffordshire Moorlands will not thank me for this, but opportunities. large county areas with lots of minor roads, for example, There are hectares of brownfield land along that will always benefit from a larger pool of funding when track, waiting to be unlocked, but that requires the it comes to fixing potholes or resurfacing our roads. The railway line back open and the critical rail mass back city of Stoke-on-Trent simply does not get its fair share. within north Staffordshire. By doing that, we are more I was very happy to have a Westminster Hall debate than happy to play our part in meeting the Government’s on this issue, because it is something that my hon. housing targets. Friends from Stoke-on-Trent have raised time and time In Stoke-on-Trent, we are planning for around 14,000 again. We want to fix our roads, but we need more new homes, and as my hon. Friend the Member for money, and the funding formula cannot just be based Stoke-on-Trent South has already said, we are well on mileage of road: it has to take in the usage of roads above our targets. We are building—there are cranes and the congestion on those roads. If we did that, going up everywhere—and we have put in some fantastic Stoke-on-Trent would get a fairer share of the money. levelling-up fund bids to focus on regenerating one of We are not asking for a U-turn, with Staffordshire the largest city centre regeneration sites in the west Moorlands getting nothing and Stoke getting everything. midlands, the East-West Precinct, as it is known. We We are asking for a slightly bigger slice of the cake. We have also had the fantastic opportunity to partner with have the fantastic JCB Pothole Pro machine going Capital & Centric, which has put in £55 million of around our city now. We are the first local authority in private sector investment, and with the gap funding the country to procure that machine, which fixes potholes 359WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 360WH in half the time and at half the cost to the taxpayer, and graveyard slot, there would not be anything to add—quite we are already seeing the benefits in Councillor Abi frankly, I think we have named every village along the Brown’sward, where it is being trialled. However,ultimately, line, every tea room and every pub— but I do have a few we need more money. things to say. Going back to the important reason why we are here, Reopening the Stoke-Leek line is a key need in a this is not just about connectivity: it is about the economic series of public transport projects that will level up opportunity that the Stoke-to-Leek line brings. As I say, opportunity for deprived communities across central the village of Milton has one of the finest high streets I Stoke-on-Trent. Like my colleagues today, I want to see have ever seen. It is a beautiful traditional village, with a the reopening of the stations that were lost when the local butcher, local nail salon, local card and balloon line closed to passenger traffic in 1956. In the area of suppliers, local florist and local café—The Teapot At the old Bucknall and Northwood station, an interchange Milton, which I frequent too often, hence the size of the is possible with the existing bus routes westwards into gut. This is the issue: we have that beautiful little village, Hanley for the city centre and eastwards to Bentilee, but not as many people are accessing it as we would want, Townsend and the full length of Werrington Road. because the problem is that parking becomes difficult. In addition, I want to see a new station convenient for It is a very narrow high street, so having the railway line Abbey Hulton and Birches Head and their significant would mean that people from Leek could come and residential estates that were never served by the old line. experience the benefits of Milton, just like the people of Such a station could serve Birches Head Academy, Abbey Milton would go to Leek to experience the benefits Hulton medical centre, Abbey Hulton football club and there. There are some fantastic markets in the Staffordshire the remains of Abbey Hulton itself. Getting the location Moorlands that many of my residents would want to right needs investigation and the Restoring Your Railway access. If this railway line came back, they might even fund is an excellent means of exploring the necessary set up a second market in market towns such as Burslem. detail—so long as we win the bid. Reopening the Stoke-Leek That town has a market already—Our Burslem—but line is entirely complementary to reopening Etruria that could be expanded with a Sunday farmer’s market, station, too. If we are to reach a critical rail mass for depending on what happens in the area. Stoke-on-Trent, we need to win both bids and share We want to make sure that at the end of the day, we commissioning efficiencies for the necessary research. do not get left behind or forgotten about. We have already The current public transport journey time from Leek seen fantastic Government commitment: we have received to Etruria would easily be halved from an hour-plus to £29 million through the Transforming Cities fund and perhaps as little as 25 minutes. In a city with chronic £800,000 for upgrading our bus network, so that 15 of congestion and ministerial directions on air quality at our old buses will become brand new and the rest are both Etruria and Fenton, as my hon. Friend the Member going to have newer engines, which means we can improve for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) said, we our local air quality. I have no doubt my hon. Friend simply cannot afford to leave the Stoke-Leek line the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central will mention mothballed. It needs to be open to passenger use. that in her speech, because she has been a doughty A third of households are carless, buses struggle to be champion on the issue for the city and for her constituents. reliable in congestion, and our growing economy is Alongside that pot of money, we must make sure that being held back. Stoke-on-Trent is on the up, but the we have Meir station open, get Etruria station open and opportunities that brings must be accessible to many open the Stoke-Leek line, which has the unanimous more communities across the city, including those who support of all four Members of Parliament here today, suffer from the urban splintering caused by what we the fantastic leader of Staffordshire Moorlands District know locally as the D road. Council, Sybil Ralphs, the fantastic council leader, Reopening the Stoke-Leek line, along with Etruria, Councillor Abi Brown, the Staffordshire local enterprise will create a U-shape around the city centre. The partnership, the city centre business improvement district, Transforming Cities fund is already establishing a fast local schools and numerous parish councils from the corridor from Stoke station to the south of the city numerous villages in Staffordshire Moorlands—I cannot centre. Etruria would establish one from the west and a bear to name them all, as I might forget some. Stoke-Leek line station at Bucknall Park would establish There is support not just from national representatives, one to the east. When we look at the map, the Stoke-Leek and at local level with local government, but on the line joining the Stoke-Crewe line around the city centre ground, from local schools and businesses. I hope we looks strikingly like the wires around a bullseye on a will have the opportunity to get the £50,000 we need to dartboard. top up the money provided by the city council and Staffordshire University and Staffordshire sixth form Staffordshire Moorlands District Council and that we college are both solid supporters of reopening the line can then go away, put a really good business case for pupil and staff use. I know from the vice-chancellor together and, by all means, allow the Department for that some university students had to drop out because Transport to decide whether this is a project that is of transport difficulties, which is an unnecessary tragedy, worth investing in in the long term. given that the university is pretty much right next to Stoke-on-Trent railway station. Given the increasing 5.20 pm importance of the university and the apprenticeship training centre for local businesses, connectivity to the Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con): It is an university quarter is vital to many more young people honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I than the traditional academic student. I very much congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for hope that Stoke College and the Goodwin engineering Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) on securing training school will also be more accessible to left-behind this debate. Members may think that, having pulled the communities. 361WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 362WH

[Jo Gideon] a competition. The Campaign for Better Transport has shown through its research that huge social and economic Westruggle with the current inadequate public transport benefits would accrue from a strategic approach. system. The Transforming Cities fund is a great start, but it cannot be the end. I do understand that there are Jonathan Gullis: I am very grateful for the hon. some local concerns about noise from services and the Gentleman’s full-hearted support, and I hope it puts loss of what might be seen as a green corridor—the even more pressure on the Government, but I firmly walking route. But the line is a mothballed rail line, not disagree with the idea that competition is bad. It was a pedestrian link. It is so dangerous at Abbey Hulton entirely appropriate for the Government to make us that the bridge over Leek Road is completely fenced off. submit a good bid and to make sure that the i’s were We are establishing a new green corridor through the dotted and the t’s were crossed. Ultimately, that is to city, with the rewilding of the River Trent, that is make sure we are being serious. We could end up getting accessible to pedestrians, which we must continue to a very large amount of funding from the Government, pursue. There is no alternative train or light rail route to and at the end of the day it is Stoke-on-Trent and Leek, but there are alternatives for better cycling and Staffordshire Moorlands taxpayers’ money, so we need pedestrian routes. to ensure it is spent appropriately and delivers for them For far too long, Stoke-on-Trent has had a public in the long term. While we are here enjoying discussing transport system in decline. It was not just Beeching; in what we want from the Stoke to Leek line, we need to fact, Etruria was closed by the last Labour Government. make sure it is economically viable in the long term. What we have now is a real chance to look properly at Mr Dhesi: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that how to reverse that. It will level up life chances and intervention, but we must agree to disagree on this issue. make Stoke-on-Trent an even better place to live, visit, Although it is okay to have competition in certain study and work. arenas, in this arena what is required is a national 5.26 pm strategic policy. As we have seen, in parts of our country Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): It is a there have been accusations of favouritism and of politics pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. coming into play, rather than an overarching policy that I congratulate the right hon. Member for Staffordshire would benefit our country. Moorlands (Karen Bradley) on securing today’s debate. The Campaign for Better Transport has shown through As we heard from all Members, there is plainly a great its research that huge social and economic benefits deal of local support for reopening and re-imagining would accrue from a national strategic approach. It the Stoke-Leek rail line. What was once constructed to points out that adding 343 miles to the network, including carry limestone, cement and other freight should now 166 miles of reopened route, would create 72 new be seen as a potential part of a modern, clean and green stations and 20 million new journeys, bring half a post-carbon railway. That makes the decision by million people within walking distance of a station, Government to turn down the bids for funds from the create 6,500 new jobs, serve more than 100 of the most Restoring Your Railway fund for even more frustrating disadvantaged wards in the country, enhance air quality, and perplexing. No wonder local MPs and councillors cut carbon, and generate an annual gross value added are so exercised on behalf of their constituents, and of between £155 million and £245 million, as well as campaigners are so vocal. indirect benefits to our economy. Ministers have simply got this wrong; if they do not So many communities, like the ones in north Staffs, allow the rail line to happen, it will be to the detriment are crying out for this kind of investment. We must never of the local area and, indeed, the wider region. We have lose sight of the need for new freight lines, as the right heard the benefits for local businesses, communities and hon. Member for Staffordshire Moorlands said, as well places such as Norton, Stockton Brook and Milton. We as passenger lines. According to the International Energy all know that a new railway would help cut carbon Agency, rail uses as much as 90% less energy than road emissions and reduce the number of lorries on local transport per unit of freight, yet the Government have roads—particularly the aforementioned A53, A520, A52 set a high bar of financial sustainability, with predicted and A523—and benefit the communities living along fair income underwritten by the scheme sponsor. those A roads. It would create new opportunities for Network Rail’s governance for railway investment local businesses in Stoke, Leek and across north projects is conservative in its approach, according to the Staffordshire. The reopening would create new jobs in Campaign for Better Transport. That combination of construction and the supply chain. factors explains why progress has been so slow. Ministers’ Most of all, it would tackle social exclusion, open attempts to expedite projects—in particular, the rail new labour markets and help people in the area travel network enhancement plan—contains the fatal design for work and leisure, particularly since, as was mentioned flaw that each scheme is viewed through the lens of by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack local demand, not an overarching strategic approach to Brereton), 30% of local people do not own a car. In meet our national needs. It feels like road is still the some areas of Stoke-on Trent, that percentage is even Government’s favourite, and rail is still the runner up. higher. The railway remains one of the safest, cleanest I congratulate the campaigners for the Stoke to Leek and most convenient ways to travel. line, who have come so far. I appeal to Ministers to clear By creating the Restoring Your Railway fund, the the leaves off the line and let the people of north Staffs Government have unfortunately set community against have the railway, but let us be equally ambitious for all community, creating a forced competition with winners communities campaigning for reopened lines. Let us and losers. Worst of all, they have abdicated their finally bury the Beeching axe. Let us offer a vision of responsibility for a strategic national plan to reopen local lines with well-lit, safe railway stations with beautiful mothballed railway lines. We need a strategic plan, not architecture, full access for people with disabilities, 363WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 364WH sustainable energy use and integration with cycling, More broadly, investing in transport links is essential walking, trams and buses. Let us offer services that are to levelling up access to opportunities across the whole frequent, convenient and on time, and digital ticketing country, ensuring that our regions are better connected, that reflects the new realities of when and how often local economies flourish and more than half a century people want to travel—one national railway, owned by of isolation is undone. By building back with a real the people and viewed as a vital national asset. focus on better connections and supporting left-behind communities, we are delivering our promise to level up 5.33 pm this country, as set out last week by my right hon. The Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury Friend the Prime Minister. (Maggie Throup): To begin, I would like to pass on the The Restoring Your Railways Fund has three parts, apologies of the Minister of State, Department for with part of the £500 million fund allocated to the ideas Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry fund. Aimed at early-stage proposals, the ideas fund is (Chris Heaton-Harris), who had planned to attend this helping communities to develop ideas to restore railway debate. He is self-isolating after being pinged by the lines and stations across England and Wales. These NHS Test and Trace app and asked me to stand in. I am proposals are led by the affected communities, supported delighted to have been asked to respond, and it is a by their local Member or Members of this House, pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. giving them an opportunity to make the case for how I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for the railway can transform their area. The Department is Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) on securing funding 75% of the study costs of successful proposals, this debate on the proposals for reopening the Stoke-Leek up to a maximum of £50,000. Over the first two rounds line—or, as she said, the Leek-Stoke line. I thank all of the ideas fund, 25 promising schemes across England Members who contributed. My right hon. Friend is a and Wales have been awarded up to £50,000 in development committed advocate of this scheme, alongside my hon. funding to help them get to the strategic outline business Friends the Members for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack case stage. Brereton), for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) My right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire and for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Jo Gideon), who have Moorlands has taken advantage of this opportunity and spoken passionately with one voice in today’s debate. submitted a proposal to restore rail services between Their collective campaigning to reinstate the Stoke-Leek Stoke and Leek—or between Leek and Stoke—to the line is second to none. I am sure the description that my first round of the ideas fund in spring 2020. While the bid right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands had the potential to deliver benefits, it was not successful gave of her constituency will definitely have put it at the at that time, and the rail Minister wrote to the right hon. top of the tourist map for those who are listening to the and hon. Members who sponsored the bid to inform debate. I also pay tribute to all right hon. and hon. them of the outcome. Feedback on the bid was provided Members who have sponsored applications to restore at the same time, setting out why it had not quite made rail lines and stations in their own constituencies. I it in that round of funding and what could be done to know just how much these schemes mean for local further strengthen the proposals. I know that the rail communities. Those Members are great advocates for Minister was therefore pleased that earlier this year—I the restoration of their railways. think it was on 5 March, the deadline for applications This Government are committed to levelling up the for the third and final round of the fund—one of the country, and a strong, effective railway is central to that more than 85 bids that the Department for Transport ambition. As part of that levelling-up agenda, in January received was a revised proposal for the Stoke-Leek line. 2020 the Government pledged £500 million for the As my right hon. Friend explained, the proposal Restoring Your Railways programme to deliver on our details the many benefits that restoring the Stoke-Leek manifesto commitment to start reopening lines and line would bring to the area—she was so graphic earlier stations. This investment will reconnect smaller about all the benefits—including providing residents of communities, regenerate local economies and improve Leek with direct access to education and employment access to jobs, homes and education. The Beeching opportunities in Stoke-on-Trent and the opening up of report led to the closure of one third of our railway Staffordshire Moorlands to the tourist trade.The assessment network—2,363 stations and 5,000 miles of track were process for those bids is currently under way. The identified for closure. Many places that lost their railway Department expects to announce outcomes over the connection have simply never recovered. For the towns summer. Decisions on bids are made by an expert and villages left isolated and forgotten by the Beeching panel, which the rail Minister chairs. It is informed by cuts, restoring a railway line or station has the potential analysis from the Department for Transport, technical to revitalise the community. It breathes new life into our advisers and Network Rail. The standard of the applications high streets, drives investment in businesses and housing is, as ever, very high. and opens new opportunities for work and education. In nearby Meir, in the constituency of my hon. Ilkeston station, in my constituency, which reopened in Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South, a proposal 2017 after more than 50 years of closure, is a proven to reopen the railway station has already been successful example of this positive impact. in the ideas fund. This scheme used the funding awarded Karen Bradley: I am very much enjoying what to create a strategic outline business case, which the the Minister has to say. I add my congratulations on the Department will be considering soon. If delivered, the reopening of Ilkeston station, which I remember her scheme would reconnect the people of Meir to the rail predecessor,the great Jessica Lee, campaigned so hard for. network for the first time since 1966, giving them access to new educational and economic opportunities, making Maggie Throup: It was a long-fought battle, like that new housing developments in certain areas viable and which my right hon. and hon. Friends in the room are levelling up a region that suffers from poor productivity fighting. relative to the rest of the UK. 365WH Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening20 JULY 2021 Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening 366WH

[Maggie Throup] Minister is fully updated on the compelling case for the Stoke-Leek Leek-Stoke line, which I have heard loud Advance proposals for the second part of the £500 million and clear this afternoon. Restoring Your Railways Fund are being used to accelerate the development of closed lines and stations that are 5.44 pm already being considered for restoration and have existing Karen Bradley: I have really enjoyed this debate, and business cases. As a result, certain reopened railways it has been good to hear from all the Members who would will be connecting commuters again very soon, with be affected positively by the reopening of the Stoke-Leek regular passenger services set to be restored for the first or Leek-Stoke line. I am grateful to the Minister for her time in almost 50 years by the end of 2021. The third words and for the support from the Opposition spokesman, strand of the Restoring Your Railways funding has the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi). been used to provide £32 million for a third round of Mr Paisley, you suggested that I had mentioned every the new stations fund, which is funding six new stations village in my constituency. This is only an hour-long and providing development funding for a further two debate, and therefore I have not been able to mention stations. them all, but they are all very important to me and they This country has a rich railway history, which puts it could all benefit from the Stoke-Leek line. on the world stage, with its Victorian pioneers, its My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central commitmenttoinnovationanditsengineeringachievements. (Jo Gideon) referred to some people who were worried Thanks to record levels of funding, which will help us about the reopening. I understand that some people to build back better as we recover from the pandemic, who live along the line are concerned that there will be we will also deliver the biggest modernisation programme an adverse impact on them. That is why it is important to the railways for more than a century. that the funding is provided so that we can explore the Of course, new rail lines are not the only way to implications and look at what can be done to reassure reconnect our communities. Last week, the Prime Minister those people who are concerned, as well as helping announced a £4.2 billion city region sustainable transport those who are really enthusiastic. fund, which local leaders can spend on projects, such as I assure my hon. Friend the Minister that many, new tram lines or bike lanes. The west midlands will many people are very enthusiastic. In fact, when we had receive a share of this fund, providing further opportunity our photo opportunity in the drizzle in Stockton Brook for the constituents of my right hon. and hon. Friends a few weeks ago, a couple were walking their dog down to benefit from improved transport infrastructure. the side of the canal, where the canal and the railway line up next to one another. They stopped and said, Jonathan Gullis: In Staffordshire, we are just on the “Wow, are you looking to reopen this? I remember this edge of the West Midlands Combined Authority. Mayor line when I was a boy. I can’t tell you how exciting it Street does a fantastic job of delivering public transport, would be to see this line reopen and see trains back but I want to make sure that any money does not come along this line.” at the detriment of areas, such as Stoke-on-Trent and It is important to note that the plan is part of a wider Staffordshire Moorlands, that are not part of combined project. It is not just another project to be seen in authority areas. isolation; it is part of all the work being done to transform the whole of north Staffordshire, including Maggie Throup: I thank my hon. Friend for his the stations at Meir and Etruria, which we all want to intervention. He has put that on record, and I am sure it reopen. will be listened to and noted. My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North Additionally, Stoke-on-Trent has been awarded (Jonathan Gullis) spoke about day visitors. He is absolutely £34.5 million from the Transforming Cities Fund towards right: we suffer in that we have an enormous number of improvements at Stoke-on-Trent and Longton rail stations, visitors, but they are day visitors. They do not come to new cycling and walking schemes, installation of electric stay overnight; they drive in and then drive out again. charge points and upgrades to the city centre bus station. We have some fantastic places for them to stay. I put on The local growth deal is also investing £121 million of the record that only last week, I visited the Tawny Hotel transport infrastructure in Stoke-on-Trent and Staffordshire, in Consall, a brand-new hotel next to the heritage including constructing new highway infrastructure to railway line of Churnet valley. It is another fantastic improve access to business and employment sites around place for people who want to visit and stay in the Stoke-on-Trent, new access to the Etruria Valley enterprise Staffordshire Moorlands and north Staffordshire. area and the new Stafford western access route, which will provide an alternative route to the town centre this The reopening could bring so many opportunities. year.All this investment will improve transport connections Around the whole of north Staffordshire, the vision for Stoke-on-Trent and Staffordshire, helping residents that the reopening of the line would be a part of is access new opportunities. tangible, and it would be such an exciting thing to see. The Minister said that this country has a rich railway I conclude by thanking my right hon. Friend the history. I want it to have a rich railway future, and I Member for Staffordshire Moorlands for securing this want the Stoke-Leek line to be very much part of that. debate and thanking my right hon. and hon. Friends who represent the area for all their thoughtful contributions. Question put and agreed to. I can reassure the House that there is a tremendous Resolved, amount of work being done in this area to reconnect That this House has considered reopening the Stoke-Leek line. smaller communities, regenerate local economies and improve access to jobs, homes and education. I will 5.47 pm make it my personal commitment to ensure that the rail Sitting adjourned. 41WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 42WS

I will place copies of the section 3 statement for Written Statements consultation, the section 3 statement consultation document and the draft notifiable acquisition SI in the Library of Tuesday 20 July 2021 both Houses. [HCWS220] BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY Competition and Consumer Policy

National Security and Investment Act 2021 The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): Today I will lay before Parliament two consultation papers on competition The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial issues which respond to proposals that have been put to Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): The National Security and the Government in recent years from a variety of Investment Act 2021 received Royal Assent on 29 April stakeholders. This includes those directly commissioned and provides for a new investment screening system to by the Government from Jason Furman, my hon. Friend help protect our national security. Today I am publishing the Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose), three sets of documents related to the Act: a consultation Lord Tyrie and the Competition and Markets Authority. on the draft statement on the use of the call-in power, The consultation periods will end on Friday 1 October. made under section 3 of the Act; the draft notifiable The first document, entitled “Reforming Competition acquisition statutory instrument; and guidance documents and Consumer Policy—Driving growth and delivering on the Act. competitive markets that work for consumers” sets out I am announcing today that the commencement date the Government’s vision for the future of competition for the sections of the Act not already commenced will and consumer policy. We aim to create a competition be 4 January 2022. regime that reflects the Government’s strategic priorities Statement on the use of the call-in power and intervenes quickly and effectively when markets are This statement—a draft of which was previously not working, and consumers are being harmed. It also published as the “Statement of Policy Intent”—sets out updates consumer rights so that consumers can navigate how the Secretary of State expects to use the call-in changing and new markets with confidence. Our proposals power under the Act. The call-in power enables the also aim to provide easier routes for consumers and Government to screen qualifying acquisitions for national traders to resolve problems amicably on their own security risks. During the passage of the Act, the and ensure the Competition and Markets Authority Government committed to consulting on this statement and regulators have the powers they need to fix consumer and I am launching the consultation today.The consultation problems, delivering our manifesto commitment to give is available on www.gov.uk and will be open until 11.59 pm the Competition and Markets Authority enhanced powers on 30 August. to tackle consumer rip-offs and bad business practices. Draft notifiable acquisition statutory instrument These proposals will create a prosperous economy The draft notifiable acquisition statutory instrument where vigorous competition drives growth and productivity, sets out the proposed descriptions of the 17 sectors of where businesses that do the right thing are rewarded the economy that would be captured under the mandatory with greater market share so that consumers can engage notification requirements set out in the National Security in markets with full confidence they will get a good and Investment Act 2021. The Government have previously deal. consulted on the mandatory notification sectors and The second publication called “ANew Pro-Competition published a response in March 2021. The draft sector Regime for Digital Markets” is a joint publication with definitions have been refined in response to stakeholder my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Digital, feedback and the draft statutory instrument has been Culture, Media and Sport. I will invite him to provide published today on www.gov.uk to update businesses further detail on this consultation. and investors about mandatory notification requirements. Both consultations invite views from consumers, Guidance businesses, civil society, think- tanks, academics, public I have todaypublished the first set of guidance documents authorities, and the devolved Administrations to ensure on the Act. The guidance will build understanding and our new approach works for the UK economy and awareness for all parties who may be affected by the Act supports growth and productivity in markets in every and who may need to comply with its provisions. The part of the country. Government have tested and refined these documents Subject to the outcomes of the consultations, the with an expert panel of industry representatives, which Government will bring forward legislation to implement includes business representative organisations, higher reforms. education bodies, investment associations and other [HCWS217] stakeholders, who provided important feedback. These guidance documents are: an overview of the Magnox Inquiry Report: Government Response Act, explaining what types of acquisitions are covered, whether parties need to tell the Government about an acquisition and how the Government will investigate an The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth acquisition; the extraterritorial application of the Act; (Anne-MarieTrevelyan):WetodaypublishtheGovernment’s how the Act works alongside other regulatory bodies combined response to the March 2021 final report of and market practices; and guidance for higher education the Magnox inquiry and the June 2021 Departmental institutions and other research organisations. Review into the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority. 43WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 44WS

The response has been co-authored by BEIS, the Cabinet The Government and the Nuclear Decommissioning Office and UK Government Investments. The Nuclear Authority will prioritise the implementation of the Decommissioning Authority has developed its own commitments within these responses as we continue to combined response to both the Magnox inquiry final deliver against the UK’s critical nuclear decommissioning report and the departmental review, which is also being challenges. published today. [HCWS219] Since it was established under the Energy Act 2004 the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority has driven a Energy Digitalisation and Smart Technology Strategies significant step change in the decommissioning of the UK’s legacy nuclear sites. The organisation’s portfolio The Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth includes 17 licenced nuclear sites, with over 15,000 (Anne-Marie Trevelyan): I am pleased to announce the people across its estate, and contributes very significantly latest steps the Government are taking to decarbonise to the Government’s levelling-up agenda. However, there our electricity system, to meet our net zero target by is an ongoing need for the organisation to evolve to 2050, delivering on commitments made in the Energy become a more resilient, efficient and effective organisation White Paper. that continues to drive transformation on the ground First, the Government have today published a new and deliver value for money for the taxpayer. smart systems and flexibility plan, jointly with Ofgem. The Magnox inquiry was an independent, non-statutory Technologies such as energy storage, interconnection inquiry commissioned by the then Secretary of State for and smart charging of electric vehicles are essential to Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, right hon. balance supply and demand as we deploy more intermittent Greg Clark MP in 2017. renewables to power our buildings and vehicles. Flexibility Its purpose was to review the procurement and reduces the amount of generation and network we need subsequent termination of a management contract for to build, and costs for energy consumers—flexibility decommissioning the Magnox nuclear power stations. could reduce the cost of the system by up to £10 billion An interim report was published in October 2017 with a by 2050. It is critical for energy security as we shift away number of initial findings and the March 2021 final from unabated gas over the next decade. System flexibility report contained a total of 57 recommendations. These is therefore fundamental in reducing emissions to net zero recommendations centred around future commercial by 2050. assurance, oversight of governance procedures and The transition to a smarter and more flexible energy organisational culture change. system is also an opportunity. It will be delivered by UK businesses and will benefit consumers across the country. The departmental review into the Nuclear It will create nationwide jobs, potentially 24,000 by Decommissioning Authority,conducted by an independent 2050, and drive investment across the UK. The UK is a team within BEIS, was published in June 2021, with a global leader in smart systems and there is significant total of 26 recommendations. These centred around the export potential—which could contribute as much as form and function of the Nuclear Decommissioning £2.7 billion per year to the UK economy by 2050—for Authority, its oversight by Government and their internal the solutions that we will need to deploy at home. As governance, organisational health and operational nations confront the challenge of climate change, markets effectiveness. for new green products and services will spring up I am grateful to Mr Holliday and his team and to the around the world. Taking action now will help position independent departmental review team for their UK companies and our world-class research base to comprehensive and rigorous work, which is reflected in seize the business opportunities which will flow from it, the reports. creating jobs and wealth for our country. Since the publication of the Magnox Inquiry interim The new smart systems and flexibility plan sets out findings, significant progress has already been made to how we will drive flexibility across the system, including strengthen and simplify the organisation of the Nuclear a vision, analysis and suite of actions, focusing on: Decommissioning Authority estate. This includes the Facilitating flexibility from consumers replacementof managementcontractswithdirectsubsidiary Removing barriers to flexibility on the grid arrangements to support improved efficiencies across Developing markets for flexibility, and the estate and improvements to the governance of assurance Improving monitoring of flexibility. and approval decisions, especially in the area of commercial Secondly, the Government have published the UK’s assurance. There has been a complete overhaul of the first energy digitalisation strategy, jointly with Ofgem Nuclear Decommissioning Authority leadership team and Innovate UK. Energy system digitalisation is essential since the 2017 Magnox procurement and the Government to enabling millions of assets—including solar panels, have also enhanced its oversight arrangements for the heat pumps, batteries and electric vehicles—to be optimised organisation. The recommendations from the reviews across our energy networks. A digitalised system will complement the progress made and propose further spur innovation, remove barriers to new entrants, facilitate improvements. new consumer offers and services, and enable system Both reviews that are being responded to today contain flexibility. further valuable lessons for the Nuclear Decommissioning The energy digitalisation strategy sets out a vision Authority and for the Government. We take the and suite of actions to achieve this, focusing on: recommendations very seriously and have considered Providing leadership and co-ordination to the sector them with great care. The responses will give stakeholders Incentivising the sector to digitalise, and confidence of the depth of reach and robustness with Supporting the development of digital tools and infrastructure. which the learnings from the reports will have an impact These documents have been produced in close on the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority. co-ordination with the energy sector. 45WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 46WS

Thirdly, the Government have published a call for system operating in real time day to day and to be evidence on de-risking large-scale, long-duration electricity forward-looking. To help us achieve net zero, we propose storage. Large-scale and long-duration storage can provide bringing the electricity system operator (ESO) and the additional benefits to other forms of flexibility,in particular forward-looking elements of the gas system operator by storing energy over long periods of low wind. The (GSO) together in a new entity, which will enable the Government have developed a call for evidence from systems to be transformed. The consultation also sets industry, investors and other stakeholders on the barriers out the potential roles that could fall to the new organisation and financing challenges that this type of storage faces, and presents two potential organisational templates and how these barriers might be mitigated while minimising which might be adopted. Finally, it sets out considerations distortions in the market. This is the first stage in on implementation. deciding whether a bespoke de-risking mechanism, such Today, we are also launching a consultation on the as a “cap and floor” regime is needed to accelerate design and delivery of the energy codes reform. The deployment of this technology on the system. energy codes are the detailed technical and commercial Fourthly, the Government have published a call for rules of the gas and electricity system, which cover evidence on the barriers to widespread deployment of wholesale, transmission, distribution, and retail. Many vehicle-to-grid (and similar) technologies. Vehicle-to-grid of the codes were designed pre-privatisation which has technologies enable electric vehicles to balance the system resulted in a code governance framework that is complex, by exporting electricity in return for payment when fragmented and lacks incentives to innovate, despite electricity is scarce—and reimporting it when it is abundant. our urgent need for a more unified, flexible and dynamic The Government have developed a call for evidence to approach. gain wider market views on the timescales, opportunities, Building on a consultation from 2019, we have now and barriers as well as invite discussion on potential developed two governance models further and will be solutions to the widespread deployment of these consulting on our preferred option of designating Ofgem technologies. The feedback will aid in creating a policy as a strategic body over the energy codes, alongside strategy for this area, help to design future innovation separate code managers. As the strategic body, Ofgem competitions and show the Government’s ongoing would assess and respond to relevant Government policy commitment to an area where the UK is a global leader. and priorities to ensure these are reflected in codes. It I will place copies of the 2021 smart systems and would also select and license code managers, who would flexibility plan and its appendices—appendix I: electricity replace the existing code administrators and take on system flexibility modelling, and appendix II: smart most of the roles that are currently held by industry-led systems and flexibility plan monitoring framework—the code panels. However, crucially, we expect that industry energy digitalisation strategy, the call for evidence on input will remain key to the code change process, including facilitating the deployment of large-scale and long-duration though new stakeholder advisory forums. storage, and the call for evidence on the role of vehicle-to-X To help us develop our view on these reforms, we are technologies in a net zero energy system in the Libraries seeking views on where improvements could be made to of both Houses. existing arrangements. Our final position will be shaped [HCWS203] by the outcomes of these consultations. These energy system governance reforms are intended Future System Operator and Energy Codes Reform to apply only to England, Scotland and Wales. Energy is generally devolved in Northern Ireland and so the scope of the review and proposed reforms do not apply The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial to NI’s energy system governance, system operator or Strategy (Kwasi Kwarteng): I am pleased to announce energy regulator. the launch of the consultations on the future system I will place copies of both the future system operator operator (FSO) and the energy codes governance reform. consultation and energy codes consultation in the Libraries This is a key step that will contribute towards helping us of both Houses. achieve the Government’s net zero targets and our [HCWS202] commitment in the Energy White Paper, “to ensure that the institutional arrangements governing the energy system are fit for purpose for the long term, consulting in CABINET OFFICE 2021 over organisational functions, including system operation and energy code governance”. Debt and Fraud Powers: Statutory Review Net zero is an unprecedented challenge for our economy and society—and the energy system at its heart. It has TheParliamentarySecretary,CabinetOffice(JuliaLopez): created the need for new technical roles and responsibilities My noble Friend the Minister of State for Efficiency in the electricity and gas systems to drive decarbonisation and Transformation (Lord Agnew of Oulton) has today while minimising costs and maintaining resilience. We made the following written statement: will require an organisation with the mandate,whole-system The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend perspective, and engineering capability to fulfil the new the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster (Julia Lopez), and I and enhanced roles effectively, and the organisational are announcing the statutory review of chapters 3 and 4 of the design, incentives, and accountability to fulfil them Digital Economy Act 2017. Chapters 3 and 4 provide legal impartially in the best interests of consumers. gateways which enable specified public authorities (and persons providing services to public authorities) to disclose information The future system operator (FSO) consultation sets for the purposes of reducing debt owed to the public sector and out the case for an expert, impartial, cross-vector FSO combating fraud against the public sector respectively. to ensure the energy system drives progress towards net Cabinet Office Ministers are under a legal duty to review the zero. The system operators are in a unique position at operation of both chapters as soon as is reasonably practicable the heart of their respective systems, both to keep each after the end of three years beginning with the day on which the 47WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 48WS chapters came into force (1 May 2018) for the purposes of TREASURY deciding whether they should be amended, repealed or retained in their current form. Cash Ratio Deposit Scheme: Review To commence that review, we are today publishing the criteria by reference to which that determination will be made, in accordance with sections 53 and 61 of the Act. Those criteria are set out The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen): below. Cash Ratio Deposits (CRDs) are non-interest bearing To determine if the debt and fraud powers of the Digital assets deposited with the Bank of England (“the Bank”) Economy Act 2017 should be amended, repealed or retained in by banks and building societies. They are invested in their current form, the following criteria will be used: gilts by the Bank and the income is used to finance its a) What has been achieved in the three years since policy functions, in particular its efforts to secure price commencement and how has the risk of fraud and debt changed? stability and the stability of the financial system in general, from which these institutions are key beneficiaries. b) Have the powers been effective in managing and reducing debt owed to the public sector and in combating fraud The CRD scheme was extended to include building against the public sector? societies, and was placed on a statutory basis, when the c) What positive and negative impacts (including societal Bank of England Act became law in 1998. At the last impacts) have the DEA powers had? Due to their different review, the Government committed to review the scheme characteristics, separate criteria will be used for fraud and within five years. The last review was in 2018 and debt: resulted in the CRD ratio being moved from a single i) For debt: have the powers led to improved management fixed ratio, to a variable ratio indexed to gilt yields, and recovery of debt owed to Government authorities, increased reindexing the ratio to prevailing gilt yields every six fairness and better approaches to vulnerable debtors among months. The Treasury, working closely with the Bank, such authorities and sustainable business-as-usual processes will now begin the next review. which allow recovered money to flow into the public purse? The review will include an assessment of the detailed ii) For fraud: have the powers led to improved identification, arrangements of the scheme as well as the continuing prevention and recovery of fraud committed against Government suitability of the scheme itself compared to alternative authorities and sustainable business-as-usual processes which allow the prevention of fraud and recovered money to flow sources of funding. It will also address the impact of into the public purse? the scheme on eligible institutions and involve a public consultation. d) Have the powers contributed to the effective delivery of Government policy, helped support manifesto pledges and [HCWS211] supported the maintenance of the integrity of the Union and devolved Administrations? Finance Bill 2021-22: e) Have the powers enhanced the willingness of public Draft Legislation and Tax Documents authorities to engage with and utilise data-sharing powers, reduced or created burdens for public authorities and/or given rise to any privacy concerns (such as in relation to The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): reductions in privacy or the misuse of data)? In line with the tax policy-making framework, the (f) Are there changes that can be made that would improve Government are publishing draft legislation to be included the effectiveness of the debt and fraud powers’ operations? in Finance Bill 2021-22. This allows for technical As part of this review, the Cabinet Office will include a consultation and provides taxpayers with predictability consultation to obtain the views of all interested parties. over future tax policy changes. Alongside this, the A copy of the review criteria is being placed in the Libraries of Government are making announcements in a number both Houses. of areas of tax policy. [HCWS214] Publication of draft legislation The Government are publishing draft legislation and associated documents, further to previous announcements, Border Operating Model including at Budget or in “Tax Policies and Consultations” (CP 404, published on 23 March 2021): Sanctions to tackle tobacco duty evasion: The Government The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt): My noble are publishing a summary of responses to the consultation on “sanctions to tackle tobacco duty evasion” alongside Friend, the Minister of State in the Cabinet Office (the draft legislation. Respondents to the consultation indicated right hon. Lord Frost CMG), has today made the broad support for tougher sanctions to tackle small scale following written statement: repeated tobacco duty evasion and for the concept of extending Today, the Government will publish an updated border the use of these new sanctions to trading standards authorities. operating model. This will reflect the revised timetable for The draft legislation will introduce a package of sanctions, introduction of the next stage of UK import requirements including a new penalty of up to £10,000 for repeated as well as including additional detail on policies and processes. contraventions. The legislation will also grant HMRC the power to make future regulations for the operation of these This updated border operating model will continue to sanctions, including provisions to extend their use to trading help businesses, which trade with the EU, to understand the standards. approaching new requirements as well as those which are already in effect. We are also encouraging businesses to go to Clamping down on promoters of tax avoidance: As announced gov.uk/guidance/help-and-support-if-your-business-trades- in November 2020, the Government are bringing forward a with-the-eu to gain access to the host of resources the package of measures to clamp down on promoters of tax Government have created to assist traders. avoidance. Proposals include ensuring HMRC can protect their position by freezing a promoter’s assets so that the A copy of the updated border operating model has been penalties they are liable for are paid, tackling offshore promoters deposited in the Libraries of both Houses. and the UK entities that support them, closing down companies [HCWS205] that promote avoidance schemes, and supporting taxpayers 49WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 50WS

to identify and exit avoidance schemes. This package of The Government are also publishing draft legislation measures builds on the promoters strategy, announced at and associated documents in the following areas which Budget 2020, and the measures to strengthen existing anti- have not been previously announced: avoidance regimes which were legislated for in Finance Act 2021. Basis period reform: Under the current system, tax returns Hybrid and other mismatches: The draft legislation will filed by the self-employed and partnerships are based on a make a technical change to the rules governing hybrid and business’s set of accounts ending in the tax year.A set of complex other mismatches. The change will ensure that the legislation rules can apply to allocate the profits of those businesses to a applies to certain types of entities that are seen as transparent tax year,which can cause confusion and error. The Government in their home jurisdictions, including US limited liability have announced a reform and consultation on how to simplify corporations, in the same way as it does to partnerships. the system. Capital allowances—Technical amendment to allowance Location of risk regulation: Under current legislation, the statement requirements for structures and buildings allowance determination of the location of a risk for insurance premium (SBA): The draft legislation will amend the requirements for tax (IPT) purposes is unclear. The Government have therefore SBA allowance statements, to include the date qualifying published draft legislation to clarify the rules for determining expenditure is incurred or treated as incurred when the the location of a risk by placing the criteria into the primary allowance period commences from this date. Without this legislation governing IPT.This will ensure clarity for taxpayers change, subsequent owners of an asset on which SBA is and HMRC, and retain the principles initially set out in being claimed may sensibly assume the date the allowance legislation in 2001. period commences is the date the asset is brought into use. Clarity for businesses on the remaining length of the allowance All draft legislation is accompanied by a tax information period means they will not be adversely affected by failing to and impact note (TIIN), an explanatory note (EN) and, claim the full relief to which they are entitled. where applicable, a summary of consultation responses document. Powers to tackle electronic sales suppression (ESS): This draft legislation will introduce new powers to tackle electronic Policy announcements sales suppression. The new ESS-specific powers and penalties will make offences of possessing, making, supplying and London capital and finance compensation payments: The promoting ESS software and hardware. There will also be Government will legislate in the autumn to ensure that ESS-specific information powers allowing HMRCinvestigators payments made by the London capital and finance compensation to identify developers and suppliers in the ESS supply chain; scheme will not be subject to capital gains tax. This will and access software developers’ source code and the locations provide certainty to bondholders that these payments will be of code and data. free from income tax and capital gains tax. This measure will apply retrospectively from the date payments are made. The Scheme pays deadlines: The draft legislation will extend the Government will also ensure that the compensation scheme reporting and payment deadline for individuals to ask their terms enable bondholders who receive compensation in respect pension scheme to settle their annual allowance charges of a subscription to an ISA to return the money to an ISA from previous years by reducing their future pension benefits without it contributing to their annual subscription limit. in the process known as “Scheme Pays”. This will resolve a Income tax exemption of new social security payments in technical issue that arises within the pension tax framework Scotland: The Government will legislate in the autumn to as a result of the Government’s planned remedy for addressing ensure that two new social security payments made by the the age discrimination found in the 2015 public service Scottish Government will not be subject to income tax (as pension reforms (the “McCloud case”). The Government provided for in the 2016 fiscal framework). This legislation will make further technical updates to pension tax rules as will apply to the child winter heating assistance (introduced necessary to remove any other anomalies as a result of the in November 2020) and the short-term assistance (introduced remedy. in July 2021). The legislation will be retrospective, from Increasing normal minimum pension age (NMPA): The November 2020 and July 2021 respectively. HM Revenue draft legislation will increase the normal minimum pension and Customs will not collect any income tax that may have age from 55 to 57 in April 2028. This is the age at which most been due on payments made from November 2020 to the members of registered pension schemes can draw benefits date the legislation takes effect. without incurring unauthorised payment charges. Members Covid local grant scheme payments: The Government will of uniformed public service pension schemes and those with legislate in the autumn to ensure that payments made by unqualified rights to take their pension below age 57 will be local authorities to families through the covid winter grant protected from these changes. After considering consultation scheme and covid local grant scheme, and similar schemes responses, individuals will be able to keep their protected operated by the devolved Administrations, are not subject to pension age if they transfer their pension. income tax. This will provide certainty to those who have Notification of an uncertain tax treatment by large businesses: benefited from the additional funding provided to local The Government are publishing a summary of responses authorities. The legislation will be retrospective and cover and draft legislation to implement a new requirement for payments made from 2020-21 onwards. large businesses to notify HMRC where they have adopted Other publications an uncertain tax treatment. This will apply to returns due to be filed on or after 1 April 2022. This requirement to notify The Government are also publishing summaries of will provide HMRC with accurate and timely information to responses to the following consultations: encourage earlier identification and resolution of uncertain tax treatments. This will help address the legal interpretation “Modernisation of the stamp taxes on shares framework” portion of the tax gap, estimated to be £4.9 billion in “VAT grouping—Establishment, eligibility and registration” 2018-19. The Government will also publish accompanying draft guidance in due course. “VAT and the public sector: Reform to VAT refund rules” “VAT and the sharing economy” Tax treatment of asset holding companies (AHCs): The Government are responding to their second stage consultation “VAT and value shifting” on, and publishing initial draft legislation relating to, the tax treatment of AHCs. These targeted reforms are designed to Finally, the Government are also publishing a research enhance the UK’s attractiveness as a location for AHCs, and report titled “Impact of making tax digital for VAT”. represent a balanced approach in response to stakeholder This considers the impact of making tax digital (MTD) representations. across those taxpayers that have been required to operate 51WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 52WS it for VAT from April 2019 and further demonstrates Mr Geller is a leading expert in dementia care and is that taxpayers are experiencing benefits in operating a pioneer in bringing the latest research and technology MTD. to bespoke dementia care facilities. He has a background All publications can be found on the gov.UK website. in the business, hospitality and charity sectors. The Government’s tax consultation tracker has also The Secretary of State and I have made the issue of been updated. concussion in sport a priority. Mr Geller is an advocate [HCWS204] on improving the safety of players across a wide range of contact sports and attended the two ministerial roundtables held on the subject earlier this year—attended by players and the national governing bodies of sport. DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Mr Geller will work with DCMS officials to improve understanding of head injuries in sport and co-ordinate action to address it. Mr Geller’s experience in this area Digital Markets: Pro-competition Regime will be invaluable in increasing safety standards in sport to the benefit of individual players and sport as a whole. The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and This role is not remunerated. Sport (Oliver Dowden): Following the announcement of [HCWS215] my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy today, I would like to further update the House on the consultation on “A New Pro-Competition Regime for Digital Markets”. EDUCATION The consultation sets out our proposals for a new pro-competition regime for digital markets which will tackle the unique sources of market power in fast-moving Special Educational Needs and Disabilities digital markets. The new regime will drive a more vibrant and innovative economy, across the UK. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education The proposals include new rules that will ensure (Vicky Ford): On 20 July, the Department for Education consumers and businesses are treated fairly and will confirmed it will be continuing the extended powers help to level the playing field so that new and innovative given to the SEND tribunal to hear appeals and make tech firms can flourish. Alongside these rules, new non-binding recommendations about health and social measures will be put in place to tackle the sources of care aspects of education, health and care (EHC) plans, market power, injecting much needed competition into provided those appeals also include education elements. digital markets and spurring growth and innovation across the economy. These extended powers are currently being tested under a national trial, which began in April 2018. The trial The new regime will be overseen by the Digital Markets will end on 31 August 2021 and the powers will continue. Unit that will proactively shape the behaviour of the most powerful tech firms and protect those who rely on Our ambition is for every child, no matter what them. The Digital Markets Unit will be given robust challenges they face, to have access to a world-class powers to enforce the regime and the most powerful education that sets them up for life. It will enable the tech firms will face tough new fines if they do not tribunal to continue to take a more holistic view of the comply. needs of the child across education, health and care while the cross-Government SEND review completes The consultation builds on the Furman review, which its important work. highlighted the specific characteristics which make some digital markets susceptible to competition issues and Full details of this announcement have been published made the case for a more targeted and forward-leaning on the Department for Education section on the gov.uk regime to address these competition issues. It also draws website here: on advice from the Digital Markets Taskforce on the https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/extended- design and implementation of the regime. powers-send-tribunal-national-trial. This consultation invites views from businesses, civil [HCWS212] society, think-tanks, academics, public authorities, and the devolved Administrations to ensure our new approach works for the UK economy and supports growth and productivity in markets in every part of the country. FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND [HCWS218] DEVELOPMENT OFFICE

Adviser on Concussion in Sport EEA EFTA Separation Agreement Joint Committee

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Culture, Media and Sport (Nigel Huddleston): I wish to Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Wendy Morton): inform the House that the Secretary of State for the The EEA EFTA separation agreement, which was agreed Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, has with Iceland, Norway and Liechtenstein, and signed appointed Laurence Geller CBE as a ministerial adviser on 28 January 2020, covers citizens’ rights and other on concussion in sport. separation provisions. 53WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 54WS

These provisions wind down certain arrangements While the Department is working to produce a revised that the UK had with the EEA EFTA States by virtue impact assessment, we intend to publish the current draft of their participation in the single market and other in the interim for transparency. In developing this EU-led initiatives. The separation agreement established assessment, we brought together regulatory knowledge a joint committee whose primary role is to supervise and in an area where we have not innovated policy for decades, facilitate the implementation and application of the alongside the ongoing challenges of modelling both separation agreement, with the power to make decisions. economic and epidemiological predictions. We were The joint committee has a rotating chair which is currently unfortunately red rated in one key area which has held by Iceland. resulted in a red rated IA. While I am obviously The second meeting of the joint committee took disappointed in this rating, we remain committed to place on 27 May 2021, by video conference. Each of the working closely with the RPC to ensure that we produce parties gave an update on implementation and application a final IA that we are all satisfied with and proud of, of the separation agreement, and reaffirmed their making use of the latest data from a nascent and commitment to ensuring the citizens’ rights provisions rapidly evolving market. are upheld for those in scope. The independent monitoring The analysis to date strongly supports our planned authority and the EFTA surveillance authority also policy intervention. This is a necessary regulation to attended to give updates on their monitoring and complaints protect consumers and give reassurances to producers. handling functions required by the separation agreement. While we do recognise the potential profit loss for The joint committee adopted a decision to amend companies whose products do not meet the required part 1 of annex I of the separation agreement to reflect standards, this is a necessary move to ensure the highest- decisions taken by the EU’s administrative commission quality tests are available to protect consumers and for the co-ordination of social security systems that public health. We have looked carefully at this and are have also been incorporated into the EEA agreement. committed to work closely with these producers to The decision of the joint committee ensures the separation ensure they understand the requirements and can work agreement reflects the latest position under the EEA to achieve them. Furthermore, the potential profit loss agreement. These decisions concern the interpretation needs to be set against the additional profits that of relevant social security co-ordination, including on manufacturers who are producing high-quality tests data processing and exchange. They do not impact the that meet the validation standards could potentially rights provided for in the separation agreement. Full gain, and the benefit to society of removing poorly detail on and copies of this decision have been deposited performing tests and associated public health impacts. in the Libraries of both Houses. The RPC has identified areas for further development, The joint committee will meet at least annually, with which include: Liechtenstein holding the next rotating chair. The next The need to enhance our analysis of the latest evidence of meeting is expected to take place in 2022. I commit to the share of the market for covid-19 tests which are accounted updating Parliament immediately following future meetings for by businesses based in the UK. This determines whether of the joint committee where decisions are taken. business impacts are reflected in the equivalent annual net [HCWS207] direct cost to business (for businesses based in the UK) or as trade impacts (for businesses based elsewhere). The need to test with stakeholders (or otherwise confirm) HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE our assumptions about the proportion of devices presenting for validation (currently assumed to be 60%)—this affects profit/EANDCB/trade impacts since products not validated Covid-19 Tests: Mandatory Validation Regime will be removed from the market) and the life cycle of devices (currently assumed to be 1-5 years—this affects programme costs in determining how frequently manufacturers The Minister for Patient Safety, Suicide Prevention need to submit devices for validation) and Mental Health (Ms Nadine Dorries): This statement The need to explain further how we have: sets out the analysis used to support the development of extrapolated from third party estimates of the future size the mandatory validation regime for covid-19 tests before of the private testing market size; they can enter the UK market. This goes alongside the established and treated stakeholders’ estimates of market full impact assessment, which we have published. profit margins; and Testing will continue to form a crucial part in the estimated familiarisation and transition costs, including response to covid-19. Consumers must have confidence the use of any non-wage uplifts. in the performance of tests they use. That is why the The need to add new content (and test with stakeholders - or Government are bringing in draft legislation under the otherwise confirm) to address: Medicines and Medical Devices Act 2021, which will familiarisation costs incurred by retailers; and require all antigen and molecular covid-19 tests to undergo mandatory validation to assess their performance how devices online will be monitored and enforced. before being permitted for sale on the UK market. This The RPC fulfils a crucial role in ensuring that analysis will ensure that any covid-19 test on the UK market and evidence in regulations are robust and assessed to meets a minimum standard, the same standards as an extremely high standard. The Government are those met by covid-19 tests procured for the NHS. committed to this process and in relation to this policy, Wehave engaged with the Regulatory Policy Committee we are determined to ensure the impact assessment we (RPC) throughout our work to ensure that our analysis complete includes the best possible research and evidence meets the high standards the committee upholds. We available. thank them wholeheartedly for their constructive feedback The impact assessment is a living document, used to and for working at pace to meet an unusually tight support the process of policy design and implementation. legislative timetable. Weplan to make further iterations of this impact assessment 55WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 56WS publicly available ahead of the next statutory instrument Since becoming Policing Minister, I have met a number we intend to lay in the autumn, which will introduce a of key stakeholders to develop my future priorities to second element of laboratory validation. tackle deaths in police custody in line with the spirit of [HCWS208] Dame Elish’s recommendations. These include supporting police chiefs and police and crime commissioners to HOME DEPARTMENT continue to drive forwards a zero-tolerance attitude to deaths in state custody, to treat each death as a serious Deaths in Police Custody tragedy and to learn quickly from deaths that do occur; ensuring detainees receive the response most appropriate to their needs as soon as possible and that appropriate The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse): health and social services are available; improving data On 23 July 2015, the Home Office announced a major collection to fully understand the extent to which protected review into deaths and serious incidents in police custody, characteristics impact detainees’ experience and use of to be carried out by the right hon. Dame Elish Angiolini, powers within police custody and consideration of support QC. On 30 October 2017, Dame Elish’s review was for detainees judged at risk of post-custody suicide. published, alongside the Government’ssubstantive response. I am committed to keeping our work in this vital area In December 2018, a progress update was published transparent, and will ensure that regular updates on focusing on three main themes: supporting families, work to prevent deaths in police custody will be included strengthening accountability and preventing deaths. in the published annual progress updates of the ministerial The ministerial board on deaths in custody has continued board on deaths in custody. to oversee and drive progress work resulting from the Every death in police custody is a tragedy. The impact recommendations in the Angiolini Review. Today, as is devastating on their loved ones. Dame Elish Angiolini’s co-chair of the ministerial board on deaths in custody, I report has been and remains a catalyst for change, and I report on the progress made in delivering this work am determined that we continue to prioritise preventing programme since the last update. deaths in police custody and, in the tragic instances that There has been significant progress made in response they do occur, holding organisations to account and to the recommendations made by Dame Elish. Of the improving support for families to demonstrate how 110 recommendations, 65 have been completed fully, seriously we take these incidents. with a further 20 completed in part. The Government update addresses in detail each of Dame Elish’s twelve I am placing a copy of our progress update in the thematic areas covered in her report: restraint, custody Libraries of both Houses and on www.gov.uk. environment, health and wellbeing, funding for families [HCWS206] and family support, communications, investigations, coroners and inquests, accountability, training, learning, Biometrics and Forensics Ethics Group: Annual Report statistics and research. Since 2018, the Home Office has substantially reduced the use of police custody as a place of safety for people The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse): undergoing a mental health crisis and introduced a My noble Friend the Minister of State, Home Office major package of reforms to improve the effectiveness (Baroness Williams of Trafford) has today made the of the police complaints and discipline systems in order following written statement: to increase accountability and help reduce delays. The Department for Health and Social Care has rolled out I am pleased to announce the publication of the 4th annual report of the Biometrics and Forensic Ethics Group on NHS England and NHS Improvement-commissioned 20 July 2021. The group provides Ministers with independent liaison and diversion services to ensure when vulnerable advice on matters relating to ethical issues in forensic science people are in custody that their needs are identified and and biometrics and considers issues in data ethics. addressed and introduced the Mental Health Units I would like to thank the group for their advice concerning (Use of Force) Act 2018 (Seni’s law) to increase the the use and retention of biometric identifiers and for their oversight and management of the use of force in mental advice on the development and testing of biometric technologies. health units, so that force is only ever used as a last resort. The BFEG has published two reports this year; on the The Ministry of Justice has undertaken a range of work feasibility of using genetic genealogy techniques to assist with to make inquests more sympathetic to the needs of bereaved criminal investigations by UK law enforcement; and on the people, including updating materials to aid families ethical issues arising from public-private collaborative use of throughout the coronial process, publishing a protocol live facial recognition technology.The group has also updated its ethical principles for the development and use of biometric on how Government will act when it has interested persons and forensic technologies and the use of large datasets. status and encouraging local authorities to provide areas The group continues to provide valuable advice and guidance: in coroners’ courts that are suitable to family needs. on policy changes relating to the use of the National DNA The College of Policing has published guidelines on Database; in support of the Home Office Biometrics programme; conflict management, including de-escalation and and for projects involving large data sets or machine learning negotiations to promote safer resolutions to conflicts, applications. The group also provided advice on a leaflet for updated its training to cover acute behavioural disturbance arrestees explaining their rights regarding deletion of custody and introduced guidance on the role of a safety officer images. to monitor the use of restraint. Agencies, including the The Biometrics and Forensics Ethics Group annual report coroners’ services and Independent Office for Police can be viewed on the website of the group at: Conduct, are continuing to ensure the voices of bereaved https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/biometrics- families and victims are part of their training, harnessing and-forensics-ethics-group their knowledge to ensure they receive appropriate support and a copy will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. and that no one else endures the same experience. [HCWS210] 57WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 58WS

HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL Our changes also include: GOVERNMENT emphasis of the importance of retaining and explaining the historic and social context of historic statues, plaques, memorials Building Beautiful Places or monuments rather than removing them an update on the use of Article 4 Directions an expectation that local planning authorities take a proactive The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and approach to engaging with key delivery bodies and other Local Government (Robert Jenrick): The Government stakeholders at the pre-application stage of local plan making have set out to put beauty and design, for the first time, Alongside the national planning policy framework, at the heart of the local planning system. To that end, the Government are also publishing the national model we are changing the system so that local people are design code. This provides detailed guidance on the empowered to set standards for beauty and design in production of local design codes, guides and policies to their area through local design codes. These codes will promote successful design. It expands on the 10 reflect their area’s unique aesthetics, culture and heritage, characteristics of good design set out in the national with tree-lined streets accompanying new developments. design guide, which reflects Government priorities and The Government are publishing today the revised provides a common overarching framework for design. national planning policy framework (the framework), The national model design code forms part of the the new national model design code, and the Government’s Government’s planning practice guidance. Creating more response to the consultation on both. The consultation beautiful places requires a greener approach that supports on the draft framework and national model design code progress towards our 25-year environment plan goals. ran from 30 January to 27 March and the Government The national model design code sets a baseline standard are grateful to all who responded. In light of comments of quality and practice which local planning authorities received, the Government have made important changes are expected to take into account, including the approach to this framework and national model design code. to landscape,green infrastructure,biodiversity and tree-lined The new framework is fundamental to ensuring local streets. authorities and communities can shape and deliver The national model design code should be used as a beautiful places to live and work, with a greater emphasis toolkit to guide local planning authorities on the design on quality, design and the environment than ever before. parameters and issues that need to be considered when The changes we have made take forward the producing design codes and guides. It also sets out recommendations of the Building Better,Building Beautiful methods to capture and reflect the views of the local Commission that national policy should place a stronger community from the outset, and at each stage in focus on the creation of beautiful buildings and beautiful the process. Design codes are important because they places. The framework will ensure that communities are provide a framework for creating healthy,environmentally more meaningfully engaged in how new development responsive and sustainable places, with a consistent and happens, that local authorities are given greater confidence high-quality standard of design. This will provide greater in turning down schemes which do not meet locally set certainty for communities about the design of development standards, and greater certainty to those schemes that and bring conversations about design to the start of the do. This is part of the Government’s programme of planning process, rather than the end. improving the planning system to put high-quality, Our changes will ensure that new homes in England environmentally friendly design front and centre of new are built to a dramatically higher standard, embedding development. the work Sir Roger Scruton, Nicholas Boys Smith and Our policy changes will ensure the system helps to everyone involved in the Building Better,Building Beautiful create buildings that fit in with places, while maintaining Commission began. And we are now establishing the the framework’s existing strong focus on delivering the Office for Place within the Ministry of Housing, homes and other development which communities need. Communities and Local Government (MHCLG), advised The changes: by a board led by Nicholas Boys Smith, who will look Make beauty and place-making a strategic theme in the to help local authorities across England create user-friendly framework but effective design codes for their communities. Fourteen Set out the expectation that local authorities produce their councils across England are now testing this new approach own design codes and guides setting out design principles and we will undertake further pilots over the course of which new development in their areas should reflect the year. Ask for new streets to be tree-lined [HCWS216] Improve biodiversity and access to nature through design Put an emphasis on approving good design as well as refusing JUSTICE poor quality schemes We have also made a number of environment-related Lasting Powers of Attorney: Consultation changes, including on flood risk and climate change. These changes are an initial response to the emergent findings of our joint review with the Department for The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) of (Robert Buckland): Today I am launching a public policy for building in areas of flood risk. For instance, consultation on modernising lasting powers of attorney. highlighting the opportunities from improvements in There are things we take for granted until we no green infrastructure and natural flood management longer have them—our ability to make decisions, our ability techniques. We are also amending guidance on flood to express ourselves, our ability to choose. The Mental risk to emphasise that checks done by local authorities Capacity Act 2005 (MCA) led to the implementation of should steer new development to areas with the lowest lasting powers of attorney (LPA) in 2007. An LPA gives risk of flooding from any source. people the opportunity to appoint someone they trust 59WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 60WS to make decisions on their behalf, in the event those The consultation is available in full at: abilities are taken from them, whether through accident, https://consult.justice.gov.uk/opg/modernising-lasting- disease or illness. powers-of-attorney and a copy has been presented to The MCA also created the Office of the Public Guardian Parliament. (OPG), an executive agency of the Ministry of Justice. [HCWS209] The OPG is responsible for registering LPAs. This must be done before an LPA can be used. The OPG is also responsible for taking action where there are concerns about an attorney’s use of the LPA. WORK AND PENSIONS When the LPA was introduced in 2007, the safeguards put in place were appropriate for the time, but technology Improving Support for Disabled People and People with and society have moved on. Society’s attitudes to fraud Health Conditions and abuse, and the expected protections against them, have also changed. Technology now offers new ways for the OPG to protect its users through identity and The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work information verification. (Justin Tomlinson): I am pleased today to update the An LPA must be printed out so that it can be signed house on the publications of Shaping Future Support: and witnessed on paper, no matter how the LPA the Health and Disability Green Paper and the “Health documentation is completed. In the 14 years since LPAs is everyone’s business” consultation response. were introduced, technology has advanced and become The Government have a clear objective to make sure more widely available. People increasingly expect to be that disabled people and people with health conditions able to access Government services online and many can lead the fullest, most independent lives possible, donors and attorneys have told us the paper-based LPA reaching their potential. As part of this, we remain is cumbersome, bureaucratic and complex. committed to our ambition to see 1 million more disabled Due to LPAs being paper-based, the OPG is required people in work by 2027. to handle a large amount of paper, which is costly and Today’s publications and the work that follows will inefficient for the organisation, creating an ever-increasing help us take an important step towards improving the need for staff, equipment and storage. The OPG’soperating way we help disabled people and people with health costs are funded entirely by the income from the fees it conditions to start, stay and succeed in work. charges. If the LPA service is not made more efficient, In 2021-22 we are forecast to spend a record £58 billion either fees will have to increase or the way the OPG is on benefits for disabled people and people with health funded will become unsustainable. conditions, and we have witnessed record levels of disability We need to respond to these challenges and look at employment. We must now build on these achievements, how technology can make it easier for people to make unlock new opportunities and consider how support and register an LPA. Wemust also fully consider concerns can be made sustainable for the future, so we can about security—finding the right balance between ease continue to help those most in need. of use and protection against abuse. Ease of access and protections must also be ensured for those who cannot The consultation launched by today’s publication of use digital services or do not want to. the Green Paper will help us do this. It focuses on issues that disabled people and people with health conditions We believe that a move towards automating the OPG’s have told us they would like to see improved. This services will improve efficiency and reduce costs. It will includes: also allow resources to be moved to improving other Testing new advocacy support, drawing on support already OPG services that provide more benefits for users. being provided by partners, so we can test and develop new It is for these reasons that I am launching this consultation ways to support the most vulnerable people who need extra on modernising lasting powers of attorney—to consider help accessing and using the benefits system and who do not how to increase safeguards, while ensuring accessibility have families, friends or trusted networks to support them; and OPG sustainability, and any changes to primary Making changes to the way we deliver health assessments, legislation that may be needed to facilitate this. including considering future use of telephone and video Todevelop the proposals put forward in this consultation, assessments where that is right for the individual and exploring we have undertaken user research, interviews and surveys how we can improve the decision making process, including to gather the views of the public and professionals. We the evidence we take into account; have engaged stakeholders from a range of sectors, Reducing the number of assessments that we undertake by including finance, legal, charity and social care. We now exploring the extension of the principles of the severe conditions want to gather evidence from a much wider group and criteria; are asking for views on the following: Exploring ways to strengthen the process people follow if they think the decision from a health assessment is wrong, The role and value of witnessing on LPAs and how to keep building on the changes we have already introduced at the that value. mandatory reconsideration stage; and The role of applying to register an LPA and who can apply. Building on our commitment to reform the work capability Changes that may be needed to the OPG’s remit. assessment, following work with disabled people and people Changes to how people can object to the registration of an with health conditions to consider future changes to assessments. LPA. It is essential that any changes we make are shaped by Changes to when people can object. disabled people and their representatives. This is why The speed of the LPA service and whether a dedicated faster the Department and I have hosted a series of engagement service should be introduced for people who need an LPA events across the country, to hear about disabled people’s urgently. experiences of DWP services and priorities for future How to ensure that solicitors have access to the service. changes. This has also included a number of sessions 61WS Written Statements 20 JULY 2021 Written Statements 62WS with Members of Parliament who have held sessions in condition, such as integrated Employment Advice provision their constituencies, sessions I am thankful to have in the NHS’s Improving Access to Psychological Therapy held. These experiences have directly shaped the Health (IAPT) services in England. and Disability Green Paper. I am hugely excited by this work. It is a real opportunity The consultation started by the launch of this Green to deliver a more effective health and disability system Paper will last for 12 weeks. Following the consultation, and unlock every disabled person’s potential. This Green detailed proposals will then be brought forward in a Paper will deliver ambitious policy reforms to improve White Paper in mid-2022. the lives of disabled people, while the package outlined Taking action to better support people in work is in the “Health is everyone’s business” response will another crucial element of our agenda, and with the ensure all employers are equipped to do the right thing publication of the “Health is everyone’sbusiness”response, for their employees, helping disabled people and people we are setting out the further action this Government with health conditions stay in and thrive in the new intend to take to tackle ill-health related job loss. I am world of work. The Health and Disability Green Paper grateful to the almost 500 respondents to the consultation. and “Health is everyone’s business” response, alongside Reducing health-related job losses is as important as the forthcoming National Disability Strategy, will set helping people into work. While most people return to out holistic approach to enable disabled people and work following a period of long-term sickness absence, people with health conditions to thrive in work and live disabled people have a heightened risk of falling out of more independent lives. work, an estimated 300,000 disabled people falling out [HCWS221] of work a year prior to covid-19. The initiatives set out in the “Health is everyone’s business” response will work to address this challenge. They are designed as a package that both increases employer responsibilities in Office for Nuclear Regulation: managing employee health at work, while also improving Annual Report and Accounts employer access to Occupational Health (OH) advice and Government support. Employers have an important role to play in creating The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work inclusive and healthy workplaces. Government recognise and Pensions (Guy Opperman): My noble Friend the that employers need both more clarity on their existing Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and responsibilities and clearer information to enable them Pensions, Baroness Stedman-Scott, has made the following to have the right guidance to support disabled people written statement. and people with long-term health conditions to remain Later today I will lay before this House the “Office for in work or return to work following sickness absence. Nuclear Regulation Annual Report and Accounts 2020 to Cross-government collaboration will continue as we 2021”. These documents will also be published on the ONR enact proposals, ensuring we are well equipped to meet website. the challenges ahead. We will also continue working I can confirm, in accordance with schedule 7, section 25(3) with key stakeholder organisations, employers and of the Energy Act 2013, that there have been no exclusions employees to deliver the proposals into the future. This to the published documents on the grounds of national will reduce the chance that certain individuals or groups security. are left behind and complement existing initiatives to [HCWS213] help employees manage the employment impact of their

5MC Ministerial Corrections20 JULY 2021 Ministerial Corrections 6MC

Letter of correction from the Secretary of State for Ministerial Corrections Transport, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps). Tuesday 20 July 2021 An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith). The correct response should have been: Grant Shapps: The hon. Lady will be pleased to hear TRANSPORT that, if anything, we are ahead of schedule on the bus target, with 900 already funded so I hope that we can go Transport Decarbonisation even further. The following are extracts from the statement on Transport BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL Decarbonisation on 14 July 2021. STRATEGY Open Banking Grant Shapps: For example, he asked where the 4,000 buses are; I have some good news for him, and it is The following is an extract from Business, Energy and not just that when one comes along there are three: Industrial Strategy Oral Questions on 6 July 2021. there are 900 buses in production right now, and 50 are Paul Scully: I and my officials have regular conversations already on the road. with the Competition and Markets Authority on a wide [Official Report, 14 July 2021, Vol. 699, c. 408.] range of issues, although open banking is normally Letter of correction from the Secretary of State for handled by the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, my Transport, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield hon. Friend the Member for Saffron Walden (Kemi (Grant Shapps). Badenoch). We support independence as a key criterion for the future open banking governance model. An error has been identified in my response to the hon.MemberforOldhamWestandRoyton(JimMcMahon). [Official Report, 6 July 2021, Vol. 698, c. 745.] Letter of correction from the Under-Secretary of State The correct response should have been: for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the hon. Grant Shapps: For example, he asked where the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully). 4,000 buses are; I have some good news for him, and it is An error has been identified in my response to the not just that when one comes along there are three: hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose). there are 900 buses funded right now, and 50 are already The correct response should have been: on the road. Paul Scully: I and my officials have regular conversations with the Competition and Markets Authority on a wide Grant Shapps: The hon. Lady will be pleased to hear range of issues, although open banking is normally that, if anything, we are ahead of schedule on the bus handled by the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, my target, with 900 already on their way—in production—so hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen). We I hope that we can go even further. support independence as a key criterion for the future [Official Report, 14 July 2021, Vol. 699, c. 414.] open banking governance model.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 20 July 2021

Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND DEVELOPMENT DEVELOPMENT OFFICE...... 789 OFFICE—continued Air Pollution ...... 793 Human Rights: Trade Deals...... 798 Climate Change ...... 794 Israel and Palestine ...... 802 Colombia: Protests...... 797 Overseas Humanitarian Work...... 791 Covid-19 Vaccines: Global Distribution...... 800 Sexual Violence in Conflict: Ethiopia...... 790 Hong Kong: National Security Law...... 789 Topical Questions ...... 803 Human Rights Abuses ...... 803 Yemen...... 793 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Tuesday 20 July 2021

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE...... 53WS STRATEGY ...... 41WS Covid-19 Tests: Mandatory Validation Regime...... 53WS Competition and Consumer Policy ...... 42WS Energy Digitalisation and Smart Technology HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 55WS Strategies ...... 44WS Biometrics and Forensics Ethics Group: Annual Future System Operator and Energy Codes Report...... 56WS Reform...... 45WS Deaths in Police Custody ...... 55WS Magnox Inquiry Report: Government Response.... 42WS National Security and Investment Act 2021 ...... 41WS HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT...... 57WS CABINET OFFICE...... 46WS Building Beautiful Places ...... 57WS Border Operating Model...... 47WS Debt and Fraud Powers: Statutory Review ...... 46WS JUSTICE...... 58WS Lasting Powers of Attorney: Consultation...... 58WS DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 51WS Adviser on Concussion in Sport...... 51WS TREASURY ...... 48WS Digital Markets: Pro-competition Regime ...... 51WS Cash Ratio Deposit Scheme: Review...... 48WS Finance Bill 2021-22: EDUCATION...... 52WS Draft Legislation and Tax Documents...... 48WS Special Educational Needs and Disabilities...... 52WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 60WS FOREIGN, COMMONWEALTH AND Improving Support for Disabled People and DEVELOPMENT OFFICE...... 52WS People with Health Conditions ...... 60WS EEA EFTA Separation Agreement Joint Office for Nuclear Regulation: Committee ...... 52WS Annual Report and Accounts ...... 62WS MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS

Tuesday 20 July 2021

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL TRANSPORT ...... 5MC STRATEGY ...... 6MC Transport Decarbonisation ...... 5MC Open Banking...... 6MC No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 27 July 2021

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 699 Tuesday No. 37 20 July 2021

CONTENTS

Tuesday 20 July 2021

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 789] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs

Cyber-attack: Microsoft [Col. 809] Answer to urgent question—(James Cleverly)

Minimum Energy Performance of Buildings [Col. 823] Bill presented, and read the First time

Dogs (Protection of Livestock [Col. 824] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Virginia Crosbie)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Nationality and Borders Bill [Col. 926] Resumption of adjourned debate on Second Reading Amendment—(Nick Thomas Symonds)—on a Division, negatived Motion for Second Reading—(Priti Patel), on a Division, agreed to

Petitions [Col. 929]

Scotland Act 1998: Role of the Lord Advocate [Col. 931] Debate on motion for Ajournment

Westminster Hall Reducing Baby Loss [Col. 287WH] Rural Banking Services [Col. 312WH] Tackling Knife Crime [Col. 319WH] Welfare System and Child Poverty: Wales [Col. 343WH] Stoke-Leek Line: Reopening [Col. 351WH] General Debates

Written Statements [Col. 41WS]

Ministerial Corrections [Col. 5MC]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]