1 FEBRUARY 2019 Brisbane Public Hearing—Inquiry Into Job Creation Opportunities in Queensland Arising from the Establishment of an Australian Space Industry
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STATE DEVELOPMENT, NATURAL RESOURCES AND AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE Members present: Mr CG Whiting MP (Chair) Mr DJ Batt MP Mr JE Madden MP Mr BA Mickelberg MP (via teleconference) Ms JC Pugh MP Mr PT Weir MP Staff present: Dr J Dewar (Committee Secretary) Ms N Mitchenson (Assistant Committee Secretary) PUBLIC HEARING—INQUIRY INTO JOB CREATION OPPORTUNITIES IN QUEENSLAND ARISING FROM THE ESTABLISHMENT OF AN AUSTRALIAN SPACE INDUSTRY TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS FRIDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 2019 Brisbane Public Hearing—Inquiry into job creation opportunities in Queensland arising from the establishment of an Australian space industry FRIDAY, 1 FEBRUARY 2019 ____________ The committee met at 8.00 am. CHAIR: Good morning. I declare open this public hearing for the committee’s inquiry into job creation opportunities in Queensland arising from the establishment of an Australian space industry. Thank you all for your attendance at this hearing. I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land where we are today. The purpose of today’s hearing is to assist the committee with its inquiry. My name is Chris Whiting. I am the member for Bancroft and chair of the committee. The other committee members here with me today are: Mr Pat Weir, deputy chair and member for Condamine; Mr David Batt, member for Bundaberg; Mr Jim Madden, member for Ipswich West; Ms Jess Pugh, member for Mount Ommaney; and joining us by teleconference is Mr Brent Mickelberg, member for Buderim. The committee’s proceedings are proceedings of the Queensland parliament and are subject to the standing rules and orders of the parliament. The proceedings are being recorded by Hansard and witnesses will be provided with a copy of the transcript. All those present today should note that it is possible you might be filmed or photographed during the proceedings by media and images may also appear on the parliament’s website or social media pages. The media rules endorsed by the committee are available from committee staff if required. I ask everyone present to turn mobiles phones off or to silent mode. I also ask that if witnesses take a question on notice today they provide the information to the committee by 4 pm on Friday, 8 February 2019. The program for today has been published on the committee’s web page, and there are hard copies available from committee staff. Please note that the committee may take evidence in a closed session. If so, at that time we will adjourn and ask members of the public to clear the room. McDONALD, Air Marshal Warren George, AM, CSC, Chief of Joint Capabilities, Joint Capabilities Group, Department of Defence (via teleconference) CHAIR: I now welcome Air Marshal Warren McDonald, Chief of Joint Capabilities, Department of Defence, who is joining us via teleconference today. The committee is very grateful for the background material you provided ahead of your appearance today. If there is no confidential information contained within that material, would you be happy for the committee to use and publish that material as part of our inquiry? Air Marshal McDonald: Yes, I would. CHAIR: If at any stage this morning you feel it would be appropriate to have a discussion in a closed session, please let me know. I now invite you to make an opening statement after which committee members will have some questions for you. Air Marshal McDonald: Thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today. I will not labour the point because inside the submission I think provided a fairly good broad overview of where Defence is with its space investment into the future. As you are aware, inside the paper the numbers seem quite large—$10 billion out to 2036—but, in relationship to space, that is quite an insignificant amount. That type of money would be a percentage factor of what the United States would spend in one year. As you know, space endeavour is an expensive endeavour and it is one where an investment may not necessarily reap a return. Australia had a fairly strong space program back in the fifties and sixties, but it too came under pressure financially and we diverted as a nation our resources to other interests. The reason I say that—and it is not that we would not want to continue to invest in space because that is not where we are going; we are trying to get our investment back up—is that it will be significant if people have in their minds that we could match the United States of America or other global players. Australia, with all its resources and all the intellect that it has, would have to make this priority No. 1 to begin to make a very large impact inside the global arena that is space. Therefore, throughout the submission, as you see, we are very selective in what we take on. We do that for several reasons. One is obviously the cost and two is that we remain very closely linked with our major allies, Brisbane - 2 - 1 Feb 2019 Public Hearing—Inquiry into job creation opportunities in Queensland arising from the establishment of an Australian space industry particularly the United States of America because they do offer very niche capabilities in space in the military domain. We are very fortunate through our relationship to have access to them. Not many other countries do. The Defence’s focus is very much in that area, although we are very aware of some of the disruptors that are coming to space, and that is why we are seeing a resurgence—low-cost launch, CubeSats and other methods of entering into space. We watch those carefully and we have invested in some, or the Royal Australian Air Force has, as you will read in the submission. That is a minor investment. We are also very aware that when people look at investment in space they look upwards very quickly such as at CubeSats but they forget the complexities associated with controlling them and the ground stations that are required on earth to be able to communicate effectively with them which can be quite complex, particularly with a lot of on-orbit small air vehicles. As we go through today I am very happy to take any questions to try to explain why we are focusing on various areas and some of the reasons why we are quite hesitant to go down the path of some capabilities. Before I open up for questions, I would say that the starting point is mathematics and science at school. I believe Queensland is one of the few states that still makes it mandatory to take mathematics through years 11 and 12, and I applaud you for that. Other states have not necessarily done so. I think that is a deficit that this country must address if we are truly focused on getting into high technology or remaining in that space and particularly for the subject we are talking about today it is absolutely critical. I was a high school student. If you make mathematics or other subjects optional, you will choose the easiest path forward, but easy is not what you need in space. You need to do the complex. That is the starting point. Space is a whole-of-nation endeavour if we wish to make it substantial. Over to you, Chair. CHAIR: Thank you very much, Air Marshal McDonald. We appreciate the information you have given us. What I found interesting is that you briefly talked about the fact that it is now possible to have a disruptive presence, whether it be on the ground or in space, and that is driven by economies of scale. It is relatively easier and cheaper to get things into space than it was many years ago. With regard to dealing with that disruptive presence, is that a driver from a national level—that we need to have that capability to deal with any disruptive presence? Is that becoming a driver in how we respond to the space industry? Air Marshal McDonald: It is certainly a driver. You have very large geostationary satellites. They are vulnerable as you could imagine, but there are certain things you can do to protect them. Space is becoming more congested and more vulnerable to other players. Along with it comes opportunities. We are looking in the smaller domain such as cube satellites and rapid launch to cover perhaps any potential consequences of issues in space so that we can re-establish communications. As you know, Australia—I will preach it as I was converted here—is a large area. Australians focus on beyond line of sight because everything is. We need that range extension and the ability to communicate freely over large distances, and space certainly offers that type of capability. Yes, we do very much focus on what is coming in with disruptive technology—as you have said, the ability to launch more effectively and cheaply and also the cost of smaller satellites, which you may just put up in orbit for a very short period of time unlike what has been traditionally done. Absolutely it is a part of our focus and that is why you have seen that investment out of the Air Force into the new University of New South Wales Canberra just to start to get a good understanding of what is available, what are the limitations—there are always limitations on things—and what are the opportunities associated with that investment. CHAIR: You said that a rapid response capability is essential in dealing with any disruptive presence.