Tobago Self Government) Bill, 2018 Was Carried Over to the Fourth Session of the 11Th Parliament

PARLIAMENT REPUBLIC OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO

THIRD INTERIM REPORT OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO CONSIDER AND REPORT ON THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018

FIFTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH PARLIAMENT (2019/2020)

Ordered to be printed

TOGETHER WITH THE MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

PARL: 14/3/76

HOR PAPER NO: / 2020 SENATE PAPER NO: /2020

Contents THIRD SESSION ...... 3 MANDATE ...... 3 MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE ...... 3 CHAIRMANSHIP ...... 3 MEETINGS ...... 3 WORK DONE DURING THE THIRD SESSION ...... 4 REPORT ...... 6 FOURTH SESSION ...... 7 MANDATE ...... 7 MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE ...... 7 CHAIRMANSHIP ...... 7 SECRETARIAT AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT ...... 8 INTERIM REPORTS ...... 8 MEETINGS ...... 8 WORK DONE DURING THE FOURTH SESSION ...... 9 REPORT ...... 10 RECOMMENDATION ...... 10 FIFTH SESSION ...... 11 MANDATE ...... 11 MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE ...... 11 CHAIRMANSHIP ...... 11 SECRETARIAT AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT ...... 11 MEETINGS ...... 12 WORK DONE DURING THE FIFTH SESSION ...... 12 REPORT ...... 17 RECOMMENDATION ...... 18 Appendix I – Minutes of First Session Meetings ...... 19 Appendix II – Minutes of Fourth Session Meetings ...... 54 Appendix III - Minutes of Fifth Session Meetings ...... 95 Appendix IV – Summary of UNDP Experts’ Recommendations...... 119

THIRD SESSION

MANDATE

1. Pursuant to resolutions of the House of Representatives on Friday March 09, 2018, and of the Senate on Tuesday March 13, 2018, a Joint Select Committee was established:

 “to consider and report on the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self- Government) Bill, 2018” and  “to report by July 31, 2018”.

MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE

2. The following persons were appointed to serve on the Committee: . Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis MP . Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh MP . Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe MP . Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds MP . Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh MP . Ms. Ramona Ramdial MP . Mr. Foster Cummings . Mr. Nigel De Freitas . Mr. Clarence Rambharat . Mr. Saddam Hosein . Mr. Stephen Creese . Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir

CHAIRMANSHIP

3. At its First Meeting on Friday March 23, 2018, the Committee elected Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP to be its Chair, in accordance with House of Representatives Standing Order 97(3) and Senate Standing Order 87(3).

MEETINGS

4. During the Third Session, Eleventh Parliament, the Committee held eight (8) meetings on the following dates:

. Friday March 23, 2018; . Thursday April 5, 2018; . Thursday April 19, 2018; . Thursday May 17, 2018;

. Thursday May 24, 2018; . Sunday June 10, 2018; . Tuesday June 26, 2018; and . Friday July 06, 2018.

5. The Minutes of the Meetings held during the Third Session are attached at Appendix I.

WORK DONE DURING THE THIRD SESSION

6. At its First Meeting held on Friday March 23, 2018, the Committee agreed to have personnel from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs and the Law Reform Commission attend all meetings of the Committee.

7. During preliminary discussions the Committee agreed to issue a call for submissions from the public. Written submissions/comments on the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self-Government) Act, 2018 were requested via print media, as well as on the Parliament Channel and the Parliament’s social media platforms with an initial deadline of April 30, 2018. The deadline was extended to May 31, 2018, however, stakeholders and members of the public continued to send submissions after the extended deadline.

8. At its Second Meeting held on Thursday April 5, 2018, the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel was invited to make a comprehensive explanation of the Bill in the form of a presentation.

9. At its Third Meeting held on Thursday April 19, 2018, the Committee agreed hold discussions on the policy aspects of the Bill with officials from the Tobago House of Assembly.

10. At its Fourth Meeting held on Thursday May 17, 2018, the Committee to invited Dr. Rita Pemberton (Retired Head of Department & Senior Lecturer UWI) to present a Historical Perspective on the Union of Trinidad and Tobago.

11. At its Fifth Meeting held on Thursday May 24, 2018, the Committee had a Skype consultation with Mr. Jason Gluck, Policy Specialist, UNDP, and his colleague, Ms. Christina Murray (UN Department of Political Affairs) to hear their views on the Bill.

12. The Committee agreed to hold its Sixth Meeting in Tobago with a public hearing on Sunday June 10, 2018 where the general public was allowed to address their concerns of the Bill.

13. The Committee agreed that due to the number of submissions received from stakeholders and members of the public, the submissions would be tabulated by clauses of the Bill to facilitate proper examination of the submissions.

14. The Committee agreed to invite Mr. Delano Bart, QC former Attorney General, St. Kitts and Nevis to an in-camera meeting on Friday July 06, 2018 to discuss the experience of gaining self-autonomy for Nevis.

15. The Committee received written submissions from: . The Tobago House of Assembly; . Association of Real Estate Agents; . Bankers Association of Trinidad and Tobago; . Ministry of Finance - Inland Revenue Division; . The Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago; . Elections & Boundaries Commission; . Ministry of Finance - Office of the Permanent Secretary; . The Movement for Transformation; . Personnel Department; . Ministry of Public Administration and Communications - Legal Services Division; . The Environmental Management Authority; . Ministry of Planning and Development - Office of the Permanent Secretary; . National Joint Action Committee; . Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago; . Public Service Association; . Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies (SALISES), The University of the West Indies (UWI); . Service Commissions Department; . Mr. Reginald Dumas; . Mr. Stephen Kangal; . Mr. Bindley Benjamin; . Ms. Dawn Glaisher; . Ms. Rachael Almondoz; . Mr. Vanus James; . Mr. Mervyn O’Neil; . Mr. Reginald Phillips; . Mr. Rodney Piggott; . Mr. Clyde Weatherhead; . Mr. Sean Nedd; . Mr. Rampersad Sieuraj; . Dr. Petra Bridgemohan; and . Ms. Carlene Philip.

REPORT

16. The Committee presented a Report to the House of Representatives and to the Senate on September 17, 2018 and September 18, 2018 respectively. The Report made the following Recommendations:

(i) the Parliament take note of the progress made by the Committee thus far; (ii) the proceedings of the Joint Select Committee established to consider and report on the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self-Government) Bill, 2018 be saved and resumed in the next session; (iii) in the Fourth Session of the Eleventh Parliament that a similar Committee be appointed to complete the work begun by this Committee; and (iv) this new Committee be empowered to adopt as part of its records the work done to date.

17. At the sittings of the House of Representatives and of the Senate held on September 17, 2018 and October 19, 2018 respectively, the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self Government) Bill, 2018 was carried over to the Fourth Session of the 11th Parliament. A similar Committee was established in the Fourth Session.1 This Committee was mandated to adopt the work of the previous Committee and continue the consideration of the stakeholder and public submissions and the clause by clause examination of the Bill and report by December 31, 2018.

October 30, 2018

1 At a sitting of the Senate held on Friday October 19, 2018, Dr. Varma Lennox Deyalsingh was appointed to serve on the Committee In lieu of Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir.

FOURTH SESSION

MANDATE 18. Pursuant to resolutions of the House of Representatives on Friday September 28, 2018, and of the Senate on Friday October 19, 2018, a Joint Select Committee was established:

 “to consider and report on a Bill entitled “The Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self Government) Bill, 2018”;  to adopt the work of the Joint Select Committee in the Third Session, Eleventh Parliament; and  to report by September 27, 2019”.

MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE 19. The following persons were appointed to serve on the Committee: . Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis MP . Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh MP . Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe MP . Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds MP . Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh MP . Ms. Ramona Ramdial MP . Mr. Nigel De Freitas . Mr. Clarence Rambharat . Mr. Saddam Hosein . Mr. Stephen Creese . Dr. Varma Deyalsingh

20. At a sitting of the Senate held on Tuesday November 27, 2018, Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy was appointed to serve as a member in lieu of Mr. Stephen Creese who was no longer a Senator.

21. On July 21 2019, Mr. Foster Cummings’ appointment as a Senator was revoked by the President of Trinidad and Tobago. He was henceforth no longer a member of the Committee.

CHAIRMANSHIP

22. At its First Meeting held on Thursday November 22, 2018, the Committee elected Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP to be its Chair, in accordance with House of Representatives Standing Order 97(3) and Senate Standing Order 87(3).

SECRETARIAT AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT

23. The following persons were assigned to provide Secretariat support to the Committee: . Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel, Clerk of the House Secretary . Ms. Keiba Jacob, Procedural Clerk Assistant Secretary . Mr. Darien Buckmire, Graduate Research Assistant Researcher . Mr. Stephen Boodhram, Public Procurement Manager Researcher . Ms. Keisha Bharath, Project Manager Researcher

INTERIM REPORTS

24. The Committee’s First Interim Report was presented in the House of Representatives on Monday December 17 2018 and in the Senate on Wednesday January 19, 2018. The Committee requested and was granted a five (5) month extension to Monday May 27, 2019 in order to complete its work.

25. The Committee’s Second Interim Report was presented in the House of Representatives on Friday May 24, 2019 and in the Senate on Tuesday May 28 2019. The Committee requested and was granted a five (5) month extension to by September 27, 2019 in order to complete its work.

MEETINGS

26. During the Fourth Session, the Committee held seven (7) meetings on the following dates: . Thursday November 22, 2018; . Thursday November 29, 2018; . Thursday December 6, 2018; . Thursday December 13, 2018. . Thursday January 3, 2019; . Friday February 8, 2019; and . Tuesday March 19, 2019.

27. The Minutes of the Meetings held during the Fourth Session are attached at Appendix II.

WORK DONE DURING THE FOURTH SESSION

28. At its First Meeting held on Thursday November 22, 2018, the Committee agreed to invite personnel from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs and the Law Reform Commission to attend all meetings of the Committee.

29. At its Second Meeting held on Thursday November 29, 2018, the Committee commenced a clause by clause consideration of the Bill. During this examination the comments received from stakeholders in the Third Session of the Eleventh Parliament were taken into consideration. The Committee was assisted by personnel from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs and the Law Reform Commission.

30. At its Third Meeting held on Thursday December 6, 2018, Tobago’s Forum of Political Parties appeared before the Committee at their request to participate in the clause by clause consideration of the Bill. On that day, the Committee focused on Clauses 2 to 18 with the exception of Clauses 15, 16 and 17 which relate to the proposed Tobago Civil Service as well as the proposed Tobago Service Commission. At this Meeting the Committee shared its views and those of stakeholders with the Forum. This meeting with the Forum proved to immensely helpful and at the end of the meeting, the Committee and the Forum agreed to meet again early in the New Year.

31. At its Fourth Meeting held on Thursday December 13, 2018, the Committee discussed Clauses 15 to 17 at length and agreed to invite the relevant experts at the Service Commissions Department to its next meeting scheduled for Thursday January 4, 2019 to provide assistance on the issue of the proposed Tobago Service Commission further to their written submissions. The Committee also agreed that on that day, it would also hear from the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago in relation to the points set out in their stakeholders’ submissions related to Clause 18.

32. At its Fifth Meeting held on Thursday January 3, 2019, the Committee held a public hearing with the Director of Personnel Administration and her team from the Service Commissions Department. The purpose of the meeting was for the invited stakeholders to provide clarification and commentary further to their written submissions focusing primarily on the proposed establishment of a Tobago Civil Service and Tobago Service Commission.

33. At the Sixth Meeting held on Friday February 8, 2019, the Committee held a public hearing with senior representatives from the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago. The purpose of the meeting was for the invited stakeholders to

provide clarification and commentary further to their written submissions focusing primarily on Clause 18 of the Bill which outlined the proposed financial provisions between the Government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago and the Tobago Island Government.

34. At the Seventh Meeting held on Tuesday March 19, 2019, the Committee held an in- camera meeting with Professor Nico Steytler, the consultant the Committee has engaged to offer assistance in its deliberations. The focus of the discussions were the comments Professor Steytler submitted in relation to the fiscal arrangements and financial provisions set out in Clause 18 of the Bill.

REPORT

35. The Committee reported that it was not able to conclude its clause by clause examination of the Bill. Additional time was required by the Committee to continue and complete it’s in depth review the Bill and to compile proposed amendments. As such, the Committee was unable to submit its final report by the deadline of September 27, 2019.

36. In accordance with Standing Orders 114(1) and 104(1) of the House of Representatives and the Senate, respectively, the Committee reported that due to the imminent prorogation of the Fourth Session of the Eleventh Parliament it will be unable to complete its work.

RECOMMENDATION

37. The Committee recommended that:

i. the Parliament take note of the progress made by the Committee thus far; ii. the proceedings of the Joint Select Committee established to consider and report on the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self-Government) Bill, 2018 be saved and resumed in the next session; iii. in the Fifth Session of the Eleventh Parliament that a similar Committee be appointed to complete the work begun by this Committee; and iv. this new Committee be empowered to adopt as part of its records the work done to date.

FIFTH SESSION

MANDATE

38. Pursuant to resolutions of the House of Representatives on Friday October 02, 2019, and of the Senate on Wednesday October 25, 2019, a Joint Select Committee was established to: (i) consider and report on the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self Government) Bill, 2018 by December 31, 2019”; and (ii) adopt the work of the Joint Select Committee in the Fourth Session, Eleventh Parliament.

MEMBERSHIP OF THE COMMITTEE

39. The following persons were appointed to serve on the Committee:

. Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP . Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP . Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP . Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP . Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP . Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP . Mr. Foster Cummings2 . Mr. Nigel De Freitas . Mr. Clarence Rambharat . Mr. Saddam Hosein . Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy . Dr. Varma Deyalsingh

CHAIRMANSHIP

40. At its First Meeting held on Friday November 08, 2019, the Committee elected Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP to be its Chairman, in accordance with House of Representatives Standing Order 97(3) and Senate Standing Order 87(3).

SECRETARIAT AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT

41. The following persons were assigned to provide Secretariat support to the Committee: . Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel, Clerk of the House Secretary . Ms. Keiba Jacob, Procedural Clerk Assistant Secretary

2 On July 21 2019, Mr. Foster Cummings’ appointment as a Senator was revoked by the President of Trinidad and Tobago. On August 14, 2019 Mr. Cummings was reappointed as a Senator, and then to the Committee on October 25, 2019.

. Ms. Sheranne Samuel, Procedural Clerk Assistant Assistant Secretary . Mrs. Angelique Massiah, Parliamentary Legal Officer Researcher . Mr. Darien Buckmire, Graduate Research Assistant Researcher . Mr. Justin Jarrette, Graduate Research Assistant Researcher . Ms. Safiyyah Shah, Graduate Research Assistant Researcher

MEETINGS

42. During the Fifth Session, the Committee held five (5) meetings on the following dates:  Friday November 08, 2019;  Monday November 18, 2019;  Monday November 25, 2019;  Thursday December 05, 2019; and  Wednesday January 29, 2020.

43. The Minutes of the Meetings held during the Fifth Session are attached at Appendix III.

WORK DONE DURING THE FIFTH SESSION

44. At its First Meeting held on Friday November 08, 2019, the Committee agreed to consider the policy areas contained in the Bill. Having adopted a significant amount of work done during the last session, the Committee narrowed its focus on the following key policy areas:  the Division of Powers between the State of Trinidad and Tobago and the Island of Tobago;  the Tobago Legislature;  the Tobago Service Commission and Civil Service;  a Dispute Resolution Solution; and  the Financial Provisions.

45. All submissions and notes of evidence were shared with Members via a Parlcloud drive, inclusive of all the extensive submissions before the Committee on the aforementioned policy areas, as well as the detailed position of the Tobago Forum.

46. It was agreed that once the Committee decided on which policy options it preferred, the Committee would share its proposals to stakeholders via a public hearing to be held in Tobago (East) at the very earliest opportunity.

47. At its Second Meeting held on Monday November 18, 2019, the Committee embarked upon a consideration of the key policy areas of the Bill beginning with Clause 9 (Division of Powers). The table below outlines the policy issue, stakeholders’ concerns and the options that were considered by the Committee.

Policy Issue Stakeholders’ Concerns Options being considered by the Committee

Clause 9 - the Division of Power between Submissions received reflect a general There was consensus from the Committee the state of Trinidad and Tobago and the concern with the following issues – that the Tanzanian model appears to be island of Tobago. The overriding need for clarity in relation to the best solution for the Division of Powers Based on the Policy Statement of the the division of powers (responsibilities) and and that – Tobago Forum, the Bill in clause 9 proposes how such responsibilities should be shared a thorough and valid list of national law- a power sharing arrangement between the when necessary. making powers exercisable by national state of Trinidad and Tobago and the island Parliament should be determined; of Tobago. Powers for this purpose What is the jurisdiction of Central a law enacted by the national Parliament essentially mean responsibilities. The Bill Government over matters not listed in this that falls clearly within the jurisdiction of grants to the Island of Tobago, law making Fourth Schedule as it pertains to Tobago? the Tobago Legislature will be null and and executive powers over all matters void; except those listed in the Fourth Schedule The Bill seems to imply that the National the legislation should provide that in the of the Bill. Parliament continues to enjoy legislative event of areas of uncertain jurisdiction, any Consequently, the matters listed in this powers over all matters. query as to whether the national Fourth Schedule, are matters over which Parliament has jurisdiction would be Central Government has law making The UNDP stressed that this area may prove resolved by the President through the act powers in relation to Tobago. Those areas to be an area of contention because power of Assent (the President is common to both are: sharing in a “federal type” system like what the national Parliament and the Tobago The President is proposed in the Bill should clearly identify Legislature). The Office of the Prime Minister what powers (responsibilities are – The Auditor General - exclusive powers of Central Tanzania is a federation with one Civil Aviation Government; autonomous region – Zanzibar. The Immigration - concurrent powers - powers exercise constitution of Tanzania gives the national Foreign Affairs by both the Central Government and Parliament authority to legislate on all Judiciary Tobago; and matters for the entire country except Meteorology - exclusive powers the Tobago Island Zanzibar and creates a list of “Union National Security, (other than internal Government. Powers” (substantially longer than the policing in the Island of Tobago) Fourth Schedule) on which the national The Ombudsman A concern was expressed that Clause 53(2) Parliament can legislate on Zanzibar. It The Integrity Commission. (cl 9 of the Amendment Bill) implies that the does not recognize concurrent powers but national Parliament continues to enjoy states that the Government of Zanzibar legislative power over all matters (i.e. “shall have authority in Zanzibar over all Question: concurrency and no exclusive powers for matters which are not Union Matters in Can Central Government through the Tobago). This reading is strengthened by (i) accordance with the provisions of this national Parliament enact laws on other the fact that nowhere in the Amendment Bill Constitution” (Article 102(1)). Because matters not in the fourth schedule that is there any restriction on the Government there is no concurrency, no real conflict affect Tobago? of Trinidad and Tobago’s legislative power between national and Zanzibari laws is Or over Tobago and (ii) the wording of clause possible. Instead, when laws conflict the Do those other matters fall within the 53(2) that makes the Tobago Legislature’s question is which law is unconstitutional or, exclusive and sole legislative responsibility law-making authority on matters that are in other words, which legislature was of the THA, in relation to Tobago? not set out in the Fourth Schedule “subject acting outside its constitutional jurisdiction to subsection (1)” (the subsection that lays so as to make that law invalid. (“Where any The Policy is not clear. out Parliament’s law-making powers). law enacted by the [Zanzibar Parliament] concerns any matter in Tanzania which is Conversely, clause 141A(3) might be read to within the legislative jurisdiction of establish the opposite - that the Tobago [national] Parliament, that law shall be null Legislature may overrule laws duly passed by and void, and likewise if any law enacted by

the Parliament, because a law in force [national] Parliament concerns any matter before the Amendment Bill is ratified which is within the legislative jurisdiction of remains in force in Tobago “until such time the [Zanzibar Parliament] that law shall be as it is replaced by a Tobago Statue.” Thus null and void.” Article 64.) the need for clarity. It could also be argued that, because the purpose of the amendment is to give Tobago self- government, the Amendment Bill restricts the law-making power of the national Parliament in relation to Tobago to matters listed in the 4th Schedule.

48. At its Third Meeting held on Monday November 25, 2019, the Committee continued discussions on the policy issues focussing on Clause 18 of the Bill (proposed repeal and substitution of Chapter 11A of the Constitution), and in particular the proposed financial arrangements between the Central Government and the Tobago Island Government. The table below outlines the policy issues, stakeholders’ concerns and the options that were considered by the Committee.

Policy Issue Stakeholders’ Concerns Options being considered by the Committee

Clause 18 (Proposed 141AE) - Minimum Submissions received reflect a general Option 1 (Leave as is) Allocation concern with the following issues – Use the minimum 8% figure as proposed in The Tobago Forum of political parties the Bill. proposes that the amount appropriated to The proposed 8% allocation is high in Tobago by Parliament in any financial year proportion to Tobago’s population, Option 2: be no less than 8% of the total budget. especially if this funding is in addition to the Maintain the status quo of 4.03% - 6.9% This, therefore, is 8% of proposed taxes collected by the TIG3 from business range. expenditure and not of revenue collected. operating on the island. The 8% consists of 5% corresponding to Option 3: Tobago’s share of the population plus 3% The Tobago Forum clarified that taxes Re-calculate the percentage based on the to make up for the habitual shortfall of collected in Tobago will be offset against the findings of a more up to date population funding for the Tobago Development Plan 8%4. The Ministry of Finance concurs. estimation. Include an upper ceiling. since the 2000 decision of the Dispute Include a mechanism for the offsetting of Resolution Commission to apply a range of The suggested 8% minimum allocation must taxes collected in Tobago from the 4.03%-6.9% based on population statistics be justified because it is far greater than the appropriation for the fiscal year. from 1993-1997. 4.03% to 6.9% window agreed upon by the Dispute Resolution Commission in 2000. Option 4: The revenues attributed to Tobago should The basis for the 8% must be clarified. be offset against the 8% allocation of appropriation.

Clause 18 (Proposed 141AD) – Fiscal Submissions received reflect a general The Committee decided that given that the Review Commission concern with the following issues – Bill proposes a minimum sum of 8%, there

3 Tobago Island Government. 4 Response of the Tobago Forum of Political Parties to issues raised at the Sixth Meeting of the Joint Select Committee [JSC] on the Constitution Amendment (Tobago Self-Government) 2018, page 1.

The Tobago Forum proposes the was no requirement for a Fiscal Review establishment of a Fiscal Review Revenue collection by autonomous Commission (FRC) as proposed in the Bill. Commission (FRC) with members authorities promotes simplicity and appointed by the President (in consultation accountability. with the Chief Secretary and the Prime Minister), Cabinet and the Executive Due to its composition, there is the risk of Council. the central government controlling the FRC. The FRC will determine the amount of funding to be provided to Tobago, There is a possibility of political interference considering the island’s unique in the case where both the Prime Minister development challenges. This amount will and the Chief Secretary belong to the same be submitted in a Report to Parliament political party. before each annual budget. The FRC will ensure that all companies operating in Tobago pay taxes on those particular operations directly in Tobago.

Clause 18 (Proposed 141AD 3 (b) and 3 (c)) Submissions received reflect a general Option 1 (Leave as is): – Revenue Sharing concern with the following issues – Revenue sharing as proposed in the Bill. The Tobago Forum proposes that the FRC will develop a regime for sharing revenue Keep in mind that there are other methods Option 2: between the two (2) islands so that all for sharing revenue, in federal Use the Bill’s proposed revenue sharing revenue meant for Tobago is attributed to arrangements. provisions and add: Tobago, even if collected in Trinidad. The Bill is unclear as to the relationship a description of the actual revenue sharing between the two main islands and the role mechanism; of the national government. a provision on how revenue from State Enterprises would be shared; and The Bill is unclear about the division of a Schedule outlining the division of powers between GORTT and TIG concerning services. responsibility for specific services. Option 3: Allow Tobago to retain revenues collected in Tobago5, which will be an incentive for Tobago to become more focused on the collection of taxes.

Option 4: Give Tobago no revenue retaining powers. However, require the FRC to revise the minimum allocation for it to be a percentage of revenue, rather than expenditure as currently proposed. In this way, Tobago benefits when revenue goes up.

Option 5: Allow Tobago to both raise and keep all of its own revenue6.

Clause 18 (Proposed 141AJ and 141AK) – Submissions received reflect a general The Committee decided that The Powers to Borrow and to Invest concern with the following issues – the Minister of Finance should have the The Tobago Forum proposes that the power to place limits on the power of the Executive Council have the power to Examples from other jurisdictions show that Tobago Island Government to borrow borrow such sums as it considers necessary lenders grant loans to subnational internationally as proposed in the Bill. from domestic or international lenders in administrations regardless of the repayment

5 This would not affect the amount appropriated as per the minimum allocation. 6 This is the arrangement in place between the United Kingdom and the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernsey, Sark)

order to carry out its functions subject to risk, seeing central governments as a safety relevant approvals of the Legislature where net for guaranteed repayment loans in case applicable. The Executive Council will also of default. have the power to make investments. Borrowing by the Executive Council will affect national economic measurement and the overall assessment of Trinidad and Tobago by international ratings agencies.

International borrowing by the Executive Council could create a moral hazard and attract predatory lenders.

Clause 18 (Proposed 141AF) – The Tobago Submissions received reflect a general Option 1 (leave as is): Fund concern with the following issues - Tobago Fund as proposed in the Bill. The Tobago Forum proposes the establishment of a Fund comprised of sums The Bill does not address the Consolidated Option 2: appropriated by Parliament and other Fund in its capacity as holder of all funds Provided that mechanisms are included for monies held by the Tobago Legislature. raised or received by Trinidad and Tobago. accountability similar to those in place for central government, the Nevis model For reference: should be relied upon: the St Kitts Nevis Section 141A of the Constitution Constitution Section 108(1) established the established the Tobago House of Assembly Nevis Island Consolidated Fund. Fund comprising monies appropriated by Moneys may only be withdrawn from the Parliament and other monies collected by Fund to meet expenditure charged upon the THA. the Fund by the Constitution or by a law enacted by the Tobago Legislature.

The Tobago Legislature should be given the power to prescribe how withdrawals may be made from the Fund and how Fund moneys may be invested.

The Member of the TIG responsible for Finance may, under certain circumstances, approve expenditure in advance of appropriation or grant warrants for unforeseen expenditure from the Fund.

49. At its Fourth Meeting held on Thursday December 05, 2019, the Committee met in camera with officials from the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago to further its deliberations on the proposed financial arrangements as set out in the Bill. The Committee also agreed to the engagement of the services of an expert through the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) to conduct detailed clause by clause examinations of the Bill.

50. At its Fifth Meeting held on Wednesday January 29, 2020, the Committee met with United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) Consultants Professor Nico Steytler and Mr. Jason Gluck, who made a presentation to the Committee, which addressed, inter alia:

i. Division of powers and functions: whether or not to define a Tobago Island Government (TIG) list of powers, equality of outcomes and the clarification of service provision by the Trinidad and Tobago Government (TTG) and the TIG; ii. Tobago Civil Service, including arguments for and against a distinct Tobago Service Commission; iii. Funding of the TIG: the raising and retention of taxation by the TIG, equalization funding as well as grants from the TTG and decision-making by the Fiscal Review Commission; iv. Dispute resolution mechanisms: the possible sources of disputes and their resolution through the Courts or by presidential assent, cooperation, consultation and dispute avoidance; v. Tobago Legislature: unicameralism vs bicameralism, the scope for a more proportional electoral system in Tobago; and vi. Constitutional mode of expressing Tobago autonomy: Clauses 141A – 141AN of the Bill and whether to entrench Tobago’s autonomy in the Constitution.

51. During the presentation, the following issues were raised:

i. The maintenance of equal standards; ii. The ownership and regulation of marine natural resources and the distribution of wealth derived therefrom; iii. The exclusive powers of the TIG with specific reference to national security; iv. Powers not mentioned in the lists of TTG and TIG powers: family law, personal law, social services, health, housing, water and energy supply; and v. The formula for the calculation of Tobago’s allocation in the national budget.

52. On February 21, 2020 the consultants submitted an After-Mission Report to reflect their understanding of the areas where a consensus has so far been reached by the Committee on the Amendment Bill and provide additional advice based on international comparative practice where gaps remain.

53. A summary of the observations and recommendations made in the After-Mission Report is attached at Appendix IV.

REPORT

54. The Committee wishes to report that while some progress has been made in the clause by clause analysis and the consideration of stakeholder comments, it is unable to submit its

final report by the deadline of August 31, 2020 due, inter alia, to the disruption to Committee meetings caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The Committee needs to continue the clause by clause analysis of the Bill. The Committee also needs to thoroughly study the Report submitted by the UNDP experts.

Consequently, the Committee is unable to submit its final report by the deadline of August 31, 2020.

RECOMMENDATION

55. The Committee strongly recommends that the very significant work done to date would be used as the foundation for continued work in the Twelfth Parliament to accord Tobago self-government.

Respectfully Submitted,

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman July 1, 2020

Appendix I – Minutes of First Session Meetings

MINUTES OF THE 1ST MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN FRIDAY MARCH 23, 2018 AT 11:13 A.M.

PRESENT Mr. Esmond Forde Deputy Speaker of the House

Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Ms. Melanie Chin Researcher Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Delrene Liverpool Legal Officer

ABSENT/EXCUSED Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member

INTRODUCTION 1.1 The Deputy Speaker called the meeting to order at 11:13 a.m. and welcomed Members present. He explained that his role at the meeting was to facilitate the election of the Chairman.

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN 2.1 The Deputy Speaker invited nominations for the post of Chairman. Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds nominated Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis. The nomination was seconded by Mr. Nigel De Freitas.

2.2 There being no further nominations, Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis was declared the duly elected Chairman.

2.3 The Deputy Speaker wished the Members success in their deliberations and invited the Chairman to take the Chair.

[The Deputy Speaker exited the room]

DETERMINATION OF A QUORUM

3.1 The Chairman proposed a quorum of three (3) Members inclusive of the Chairman, consistent with Standing Orders.

3.2 Members agreed to this proposal.

TERMS OF REFERENCE

4.1 The Chairman informed Members of the Committee’s terms of reference, viz:

“to consider the Bill entitled ‘An Act to amend the Constitution of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago to accord self-government to Tobago, to repeal the Tobago House of Assembly Act Chap. 25:03 and for related matters’ pursuant to Standing Order 66 of the House (the Procedure in Select Committee upon First Reading); and

to report by July 31, 2018”

STAFF OF THE COMMITTEE

5.1 The staff assigned to the Committee by the Clerk of the House was introduced to Members.

THE WAY FORWARD

Determination of the next Meeting Day and the Work Agenda

6.1 The Chairman led the Committee in a discussion on the Committee’s approach to the Work Agenda going forward.

6.2 The Committee agreed to meetings every Thursday at 2:30pm until the presentation of the report.

6.3 There was a brief discussion on the approaches to circulate the Bill to members of the public in the widest possible way.

6.4 The Committee agreed as follows:

a) To circulate the Bill as widely as possible and seek the views and opinions from the general public; b) To send the Bill to interested persons, groups and all who participated in the forum of parties and seek written submissions from these stakeholders on the Bill.

6.5 The Committee also agreed that public hearings in both Tobago and Trinidad would be critical to its work.

6.6 The Chairman proposed that Press Conferences should also be held at appropriate times to highlight the work of the Committee and to raise public awareness on the Bill. The Committee agreed.

6.7 The Chairman recommended that Attorneys from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel and the Law Reform Commission should be in attendance at all meetings of the Committee. The Committee agreed.

6.8 The Chairman suggested and the Committee agreed that at its next meeting a comprehensive explanation of the Bill in the form of a presentation by the Chief Parliamentary Counsel’s office should be delivered.

ADJOURNMENT

7.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday April 5, 2018 at 2:30 p.m.

7.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

7.3 The adjournment was taken at 11:40 a.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary April 05, 2018

ND MINUTES OF THE 2 MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE

CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018

HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A

WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN

THURSDAY APRIL 5, 2018 AT 2:45 P.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Ms. Melanie Chin Researcher Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Colleen Holder Director Corporate Communications Ms. Delrene Liverpool Legal Officer

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member

ELECTION OF AN INTERIM CHAIRMAN 1.1 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Dr. Mahabir to act as interim Chairman until the arrival of the Chairman.

1.2 Ms. Cudjoe seconded.

1.3 No other nominations were made. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Interim Chairman.

1.4 The Interim Chairman called the meeting to order at 2:45 p.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 Mr. De Freitas welcomed Members present and informed them that Mr. Foster Cummings requested to be excused from the meeting and that the Chairman will be late.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the First Meeting held on March 23, 2018.

3.2 The following amendment was made to the Minutes:

Paragraph 6.2: delete and replace as follows: “6.2 The Committee agreed to meet on Thursdays at 2:30 p.m. on a sustained basis until the presentation of the Report”.

3.3 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes, as amended, was moved by Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir and seconded by Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh. The Minutes were confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Determination of a Quorum - Paragraph 3.1

4.1 Dr. Mahabir proposed that the Quorum of the Committee be amended to require that each House be represented in the determination of a Quorum. He referred to Standing Order 97(2) HOR/ 87(2) Senate and expressed the view that such a quorum will be consistent with the spirit of that Standing Order.

4.2 A brief discussion ensued.

4.3 The Committee agreed to amend the Quorum of the Committee to read as follows– “Three (3) Members including the Chair, provided that each House is represented”.

Invitation to Stakeholders to comment on the Bill

The Way Forward - Paragraph 6.4

4.4 The Interim Chairman informed the Members that the following Stakeholders were invited to submit comments on the Bill:

- The Forum of Parties- Political Parties; - The Tobago House of Assembly; - The Law Association of Trinidad and Tobago ; - The Faculty of Law, the UWI, St. Augustine; - The Faculty of Social Sciences, the UWI, St. Augustine; - The Arthur Lok Jack Graduate School of Business, UWI, St. Augustine; - The Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies (SALISES) St. Augustine; - The Trinidad and Tobago Industry of Chamber and Commerce; - The Bankers Association of Trinidad and Tobago; - The Trinidad and Tobago Manufacturers Association; - The Public Service Association of Trinidad and Tobago; - The Public Service Commission; - The Ministry of Finance (Comptroller of Accounts, Director of Budgets, Investments Division) - The Board of Permanent Secretaries; - The Media Association of Trinidad and Tobago; - The Auditor General; - The Governor of the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago; - Mr. Reginald Dumas; - Ms. Christlyn Moore; and - Mr. Hochoy Charles.

4.5 He invited suggestions of additional stakeholders for the purpose of obtaining written submissions.

4.6 A discussion ensued. The committee agreed to add the following:

- The Congress of the People; - The United National Congress; - The National Trade Union Centre;

- Mrs. Deborah Moore Miggins; - Fargo House - Fisherfolk Association; - Civil Society Groups; - Non-Governmental Organisations; - Former Clerks of the House and Senate; - Youth Councils (Trinidad and Tobago); and - Any other Political Parties registered with the Elections and Boundaries Commission.

4.7 The Committee discussed the widest possible circulation of the Bill and the best options available. The Committee agreed to the following: - Copies of the Bill are to be made available at all libraries across Trinidad and Tobago; - Posters and flyers are to be placed at the air and sea ports; - Full page advertisements in two weekend newspapers; - Posts on Parliament’s website, social media, television and radio; - Copies of the Bill be distributed to Constituency Offices, upon request, particularly Tobago offices.

(The Chairman joined the meeting)

PRESENTATION – AN OVERVIEW OF THE BILL

5.1 The Chairman informed Members that Technocrats from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs and the Law Reform Commission were invited to present an Overview of the Bill.

5.2 The following persons joined the meeting:

- Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel - Mr. Samraj Harripaul, SC - Member of the Law Reform Commission - Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs

5.3 Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai made a presentation covering the following areas of the Bill:

a) Structure of the Bill; b) Purpose of the Bill; c) Right to Self-determination; d) Equality of Status;

e) Tobago Legislature; f) Establishment of a Tobago Island Government and Institutions; g) New Fourth Schedule; h) Tobago Legislature – Power to make Laws; i) Composition of the House of Assembly; j) Election of Presiding Officer; k) Election of Chief Secretary and Deputy Chief Secretary; l) Tobago Executive Council; m) Appointment of a Minority Leader; n) Publication of Names of Members of the House of Assembly; o) Qualification for Membership and Grounds for Disqualification; p) Composition of the People’s House; q) New Fifth Schedule; r) Dissolution of the Tobago Legislature; s) Fiscal Review Commission; t) Tobago Service Commission; u) Annual Appropriation; v) Transitional Provisions; and w) The First Schedule.

5.4 During the presentation, the Attorneys were asked to provide clarification on the follow issues at a subsequent meeting:

i. Is there a legal definition for the environmental sector? ii. What is the Tobago residency requirement? iii. Clarification on the meaning of “Ward” in law and whether Tobago is considered a ward of Trinidad and Tobago.

5.5 Issues in relation to the general merits/policies contained in the Bill were raised by Members, including but not limited to the following:

i. What is the rationale for the People’s House? ii. What is the rationale for the Tobago Gazette as opposed to a general Gazette in circulation? iii. How will the Tobago Legislature’s Two Houses be set up? iv. What considerations were applied to arrive at the various sectors proposed for representation in the People’s House? v. Does the model of the proposed People’s House exist in other jurisdictions? vi. What options were considered for the election of persons to the People’s House; was the option of parishes considered? vii. What consideration was applied to arrive at the proposed financial allocation of 8%?

5.6 The Chairman thanked the technocrats for attending and providing assistance.

THE WAY FORWARD

6.1 The Committee agreed that at the next meeting, representatives from the Tobago House of Assembly will be invited to assist with discussions on the policy aspects of the Bill.

ADJOURNMENT

7.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday April 12, 2018 at 2:30 p.m.

7.2 The Chairman reminded Members that at the next meeting, representatives from the Tobago House of Assembly will be invited to discuss the policy aspects of the Bill.

7.3 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

7.4 The adjournment was taken at 4:48 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

April 05, 2018

RD MINUTES OF THE 3 MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN

THURSDAY APRIL 19, 2018 AT 2:36 P.M.

PRESENT Committee Members Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Melanie Chin Researcher Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Colleen Holder Director, Corporate Communications

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

ELECTION OF AN INTERIM CHAIRMAN

1.1 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Mr. Deyalsingh to act as Chairman for the day in the absence of the Chairman.

1.2 Mr. Hinds seconded.

1.3 There were no other nominations. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Chairman for the day.

1.4 The Interim Chairman called the meeting to order at 2:36 p.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 Mr. De Freitas welcomed Members present and informed them that Mrs. Robinson- Regis, Mr. Foster Cummings, Mr. Indarsingh and Ms. Ramdial had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.3 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Second Meeting held on April 5, 2018.

3.4 The following amendments were made to the Minutes:

Paragraph 4.6: add: “Any other political parties registered with the Elections and Boundaries Commission.”

Paragraph 4.7: delete and replace as follows: “Posts on Parliament’s website, social media, television and radio.”

Paragraph 4.7: add: “Copies of the Bill will be made available to constituency offices, upon request, particularly Tobago constituencies.”

Replace “Mr. Mahabir” with “Dr. Mahabir” wherever it occurs.

3.3 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes, as amended, was moved by Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds and seconded by Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir. The Minutes were confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Invitation to Stakeholders to comment on the Bill

The Way Forward - Paragraph 4.4

4.1 The Chairman informed the Committee that:

i. Mr. Reginald Dumas was unable to submit comments on the Bill due to personal matters engaging his attention.

ii. Correspondence was received in response to the public call from Carlene Phillip, Petra Bridgemohan and Stephen Kangal.

Presentation – An Overview of the Bill - Paragraph 5.4

4.2 The Chairman informed the Committee that the Chief Parliamentary Counsel (CPC) had responded to requests for additional information made during their presentation. The written responses of the CPC were circulated for the Committee’s consideration.

4.3 A discussion ensued.

TOBAGO STAKEHOLDERS - PRINCIPLES CONTAINED IN THE BILL

5.1 The Chairman informed Members that stakeholders from the Tobago House of Assembly were invited to explain the general merits and principles of the Bill to assist the Committee in its discussion on matters of policy.

5.2 The following persons joined the meeting at this time:

TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY (THA) - Hon. Kelvin Charles - Chief Secretary, THA - Ms. Ingrid Melville - Technical Advisor - Mr. Allan Richards - Technical Advisor - Mr. Gilbert Peterson - Senior Counsel - Mr. Carlos Hazel - Technical Advisor, Division of Finance and the Economy

ATTORNEYS - Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel - Mr. Ryan Awai - Senior Parliamentary Counsel, Legislative Drafting Department - Ms. Stacy-Lee Daniell - Parliamentary Counsel II (Ag.) Legislative Drafting Department - Ms. Yolande Wilkinson - Parliamentary Counsel I, Legislative Drafting Department - Mr. Samraj Harripaul, SC - Law Reform Officer, Law Reform Commission - Ms. Vashti Maharaj - Head Legal Services, PS Secretariat - Mr. Javed R. Sajad - Legal Officer I, PS Secretariat

5.3 Hon. Kelvin Charles made a presentation in relation to the general merits and principles of the Bill outlining, inter alia:

x) The aspirations of the people of Tobago in relation to the Bill; y) The advantages of a Bicameral Legislature (Peoples’ House); z) The relevant Examples of Bicameral Systems; aa) The electoral process of the proposed Tobago House of Assembly & Peoples’ House; bb) The relevant comparisons with the St. Kitts and Nevis Model; cc) The justification for the proposed financing the THA (8% Parliamentary Allocation); dd) The role of the Fiscal Review Commission; ee) The dispute resolution process; and ff) The Rationale for Defined Boundaries.

5.4 After the presentation by the officials from the Tobago House of Assembly, a discussion ensued around the following issues:

iv. Whether there was data to support the contention that the development of Tobago was stymied as a result of insufficient allocations over the last decade; v. The rationale for an 8% Parliamentary Allocation particularly given that the Bill proposes to grant Tobago the power to borrow and the ability to retain all revenue generated in Tobago;

vi. The reason(s) for the proposal of the People’s House as an elected Chamber void of an appointed Independent Bench; vii. The election process for persons who will be representing the sectoral interests of the People’s House; viii. The process by which individuals will be elected into the People’s House to contribute to Bills and issues that are cross-sectoral; ix. The election cycles that should be anticipated in both Houses; x. The likelihood that one party could control one House and another party control the other House and the possibility of the Legislature being stymied by the People’s House; xi. The prospect of adding two Independent Members to the People’s House; xii. The prospect of someone simultaneously vying for membership in both the Houses; xiii. How the boundaries for the sectors will be determined; xiv. Whether the THA elections could be based on the first-past-the-post system and the People’s House elections on the proportional representation; xv. The need for the regulation of campaign finance funding; and xvi. The inclusion of limitations on the number of times an individual could represent a sector.

5.5 A discussion ensued with the Attorneys on the following issues: i. Who is going to monitor the sectoral election process in the People’s House? ii. How will the switching of sectoral members in the People’s House due to internal sector elections be handled? iii. What will be the process involved in the addition of more sectors to the People’s House? iv. How will removing Tobago as a ward of Trinidad and Tobago in the Constitution affect Trinidad and Tobago? v. How long should someone reside in Tobago in order to gain voting eligibility for elections in Tobago.

5.6 The Committee requested the following information from the THA in writing: i. A list of the projects that was foregone as a result of underfunding over the last decade. ii. The mathematical formula used by St. Kitts and Nevis to determine the percentage of the budget allocated towards Nevis.

5.7 The Chairman thanked the Officials from the THA and the Attorneys for attending and they left the meeting.

THE WAY FORWARD

6.1 The Committee agreed to invite Dr. Rita Pemberton, Head of Department and Senior Lecturer, Department of History, University of the West Indies, to the next meeting to provide a historical perspective on the merging of the islands of Trinidad and Tobago.

6.2 The Interim Chairman reminded Members that the Committee has available an expert, Mr. Jason Gluck, Policy Specialist, UNDP.

6.3 Dr. Mahabir requested whether Mr. Gluck can provide advice on the constitutional and financial arrangements that exist between the United Kingdom, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (Guernsey and Jersey).

6.4 The Committee was also asked to consider obtaining assistance of a trained political scientist with knowledge of the internal dynamics of Tobago. This political activist would inform the Committee about the problems which could arise with the Bill, proposed second Chamber as currently constituted and the suggestions that could make it operational and more workable.

6.5 The Interim Chairman agreed that these matters will be brought to the attention of the Chairman and at a decision taken at the next meeting.

ADJOURNMENT

7.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday May 3, 2018 at 2:30 p.m.

7.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

7.3 The adjournment was taken at 5:19 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct. Chairman

Secretary April 19, 2018

MINUTES OF THE 4TH MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN THURSDAY MAY 17, 2018 AT 3:00 P.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Melanie Chin Researcher Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member

ELECTION OF AN INTERIM CHAIRMAN

1.1 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Mr. Deyalsingh to act as Chairman for the day in the absence of the Chairman.

1.2 Mr. Indarsingh seconded.

1.3 There were no other nominations. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Chairman for the day.

1.4 The Interim Chairman called the meeting to order at 3:04 p.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Interim Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Mrs. Robinson-Regis, Dr. Mahabir, Mr. Creese and Mr. Hosein had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.5 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Third Meeting held on April 19, 2018.

3.6 There being no corrections or omissions, the Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. Deyalsingh and seconded by Mr. Cummings.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

4.1 With reference to Paragraph 4.1, the Interim Chairman informed the Committee that:

i. Comments on the Bill were received from the following Stakeholders and circulated for Members’ consideration:  Bankers’ Association of Trinidad and Tobago (BATT);  Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago (CBTT);  Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies (SALISES);  Service Commissions Department (SCD);  Chief Personnel Officer (CPO);  Legal Services Division, Ministry of Public Administration and Communications; and  Mr. Stephen Kangal

ii. Mr. David Abdulah, Political Leader, Movement for Social Justice (MSJ), requested an extension in the deadline to submit comments on the Bill.

iii. A discussion ensued.

iv. The Committee agreed to extend the deadline for all written submissions to May 31, 2018.

PRESENTATION – A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE ON THE UNION OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO

5.1 The Chairman informed Members that Dr. Rita Pemberton was invited to give a historical perspective on the union of Trinidad and Tobago.

5.2 The following persons joined the meeting at this time:

- Dr. Rita Pemberton - Retired Head of Department & Senior Lecturer (UWI) ATTORNEYS - Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel - Mr. Ryan Awai - Senior Parliamentary Counsel, Legislative Drafting Department - Ms. Stacy-Lee Daniell - Parliamentary Counsel II (Ag.) Legislative Drafting Department - Ms. Yolande Wilkinson - Parliamentary Counsel I, Legislative Drafting Department - Mr. Samraj Harripaul, SC - Law Reform Officer, Law Reform Commission - Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat

5.3 Dr. Rita Pemberton made a presentation on the key historical features of the relationship between the islands of Trinidad and Tobago which outlined, inter alia: i. The long term factors which laid the foundation for the path to union; ii. The Immediate causes; and iii. The Responses to union.

5.4 Following the presentation, a discussion ensued. Dr. Pemberton provided responses to questions related to the following issues: i. The tensions between the peoples of Trinidad and Tobago after the merging of the islands;

ii. The differences between the economic circumstance of Trinidad and those of Tobago over the years; iii. The impact of the frequent changes in ownership of Tobago on the island’s economic performance; iv. The reasons for the absence of representation from Tobago on the Legislative Council of Trinidad and Tobago during the years 1913 to 1925; and v. The groundwork for Tobago’s representation in the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago hosted in Port of Spain.

5.5 The Chairman thanked Dr. Pemberton and the Attorneys for attending and they left the meeting.

OTHER BUSINESS

6.1 The Committee discussed the approach that will be taken for consultations with Stakeholders in Tobago.

6.2 The Committee agreed that a maximum of three (3) consultations with Stakeholders in Tobago should be appropriate. The dates for these are be determined.

6.3 The Committee agreed that Dr. Pemberton’s presentation should be circulated to Members, the media, Tobago channel 5, Parliament channel, YouTube and the Education Division of the THA.

6.4 Committee Members were encouraged to review the comments received by Mr. Jason Gluck, UNDP as well as the written submissions received for the next meeting, and to prepare questions that can assist in the Committee’s examination of the Bill.

ADJOURNMENT

7.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday May 24, 2018 at 2:30 p.m.

7.2 The Interim Chairman thanked Members for attending.

7.3 The adjournment was taken at 4:54 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Interim Chairman

Secretary

May 17, 2018

MINUTES OF THE 5TH MEETING

OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN THURSDAY MAY 24, 2018 AT 2:30 P.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

CALL TO ORDER

1.1 The Chairman called the Meeting to order at 2:37 p.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Ms. Ramdial and Mr. Rambharat had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.7 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Third Meeting held on May 17, 2018.

3.8 The following amendment was made to the Minutes:

Paragraph 6.2: add the word “to” after “The dates for these are”: “The dates for these are to be determined.”

3.9 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes, as amended, was moved by Mr. Deyalsingh and seconded by Mr. Indarsingh. The Minutes were confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

4.1 With reference to Paragraph 4.1 (iv), the Chairman informed the Committee that by letters dated May 18, 2018, the Secretariat sent correspondence to stakeholders to inform them of the new deadline for comments on the Bill.

4.2 With reference to Paragraph 6.3, the Chairman informed the Committee that Dr. Rita Pemberton’s presentation was circulated to all Members via email on May 22, 2018.

REVIEW OF SUBMISSION BY THE UNDP CONSULTANT

5.1 The Chairman informed Members that Mr. Jason Gluck, Policy Specialist, UNDP, was invited to join the Committee via Skype to share his views on the Bill and encouraged the Committee to raise any questions/ concerns they may have had.

5.2 The following persons joined the meeting at this time:

ATTORNEYS - Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel - Ms. Stacy-Lee Daniell - Parliamentary Counsel II (Ag.) Legislative Drafting Department

- Ms. Yolande Wilkinson - Parliamentary Counsel I, Legislative Drafting Department - Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat

5.3 Mr. Jason Gluck, and his colleague, Ms. Christina Murray (UN Department of Political Affairs), joined the meeting via Skype and a discussion ensued on the following aspects of the Bill: i. The Proposed State Structure: Autonomy for Tobago within the State of Trinidad and Tobago; ii. The Division of powers between the State of Trinidad and Tobago and the Island of Tobago; iii. Finance and Revenue Sharing; iv. Whether the arrangement provides adequate incentives and mechanisms for shared government; v. Whether the arrangement provided for effective and efficient dispute resolution between the levels of government; vi. The Sub-national role in constitutional amendment procedures; and vii. Tobago institutions of government.

5.4 The Chairman thanked Mr. Gluck and Ms. Murray for sharing their views and the conversation ended.

REVIEW OF SUBMISSIONS BY OTHER STAKEHOLDERS

6.1 The Chairman reminded the Committee and the Attorneys that submissions were received from the following Stakeholders: i. Bankers Association of Trinidad and Tobago ii. Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago iii. Movement for Transformation iv. Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies (SALISES); v. Service Commissions Department (SCD); vi. Chief Personnel Officer (CPO); vii. Legal Services Division, Ministry of Public Administration and Communications; viii. Mr. Stephen Kangal; and ix. Mr. Rampersad Sieuraj.

6.2 The Secretariat was requested to prepare an analysis of the key points raised in the discussions with Mr. Gluck and Ms. Murray for the benefit of Committee members.

6.3 The Chairman encouraged Committee Members and Attorneys to review the submissions received from Stakeholders.

Timeline for submission of report and Dates/Venues for Public Consultations

7.1 The Committee discussed the approach that will be taken for consultations with Stakeholders in Tobago.

7.2 The Committee agreed that a maximum of three (3) consultations with Stakeholders in Tobago should be appropriate. The venues for these were to be determined.

7.3 The Committee agreed to host a public consultation in Tobago on June 10, 2018.

7.4 The Committee agreed that three (3) members (the Chairman, Ms. Cudjoe and Mr. De Freitas) should engage citizens via radio/television on the principles contained in the draft Bill in advance of the visit to Tobago.

ADJOURNMENT

8.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday June 7, 2018 at 2:30 p.m.

8.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

8.3 The adjournment was taken at 5:09 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

May 24, 2018

MINUTES OF THE 6TH MEETING

OF THE

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE VICTOR E. BRUCE FINANCIAL COMPLEX, 6-10 POST OFFICE STREET, SCARBOROUGH, TOBAGO SUNDAY JUNE 10, 2018 AT 1:00 P.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member

Secretariat Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Ms. Melanie Chin Researcher Ms. Colleen Holder Director, Corporate Communications Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Delrene Liverpool Legal Officer I

Attorneys Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel Mr. Ryan Awai Senior Parliamentary Counsel, Legislative Drafting Department

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh Member

Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

CALL TO ORDER

1.1 The Chairman called the Meeting to order at 1:23 p.m.

DISCUSSION WITH TOBAGO STAKEHOLDERS

2.1 The Committee introduced themselves and welcomed those present.

2.2 The Chairman made brief introductory remarks about the contents of the Bill and opened the floor to the public to address their concerns of the Bill.

2.3 The following public stakeholders shared their comments on the Bill:  Mr. Anslem Richards  Mr. Anthony Hector  Mr. Jason Arthur  Ms. Rachel Almondoz  Dr. Vanus James  Mr. Geoffrey Lewis  Mr. Vincent Taylor  Mr. Otman Drysdale  Mr. Bindley Benjamin  Mr. Reginald Vidal  Mr. Conrad James  Mr. Ronald Rodney

KEY ISSUES DISCUSSED

3.1 The following key issues were discussed –

 The legislative requirements for Tobago to determine self-governance.  The clarification of the Executive Authority.  The need for a judicial system to address conflict that may arise between Trinidad and Tobago.  The need for a contract between Trinidad and Tobago to ensure effectiveness of the Bill.

 The consideration of independently appointed councilors.  The history of Tobago’s governance arrangements with Trinidad.  The need for clarification of the proposed 8% budgetary allocation to Tobago.  The consideration of terms for the Leader of the Assembly.  The need for financial accountability of public funds.  The purpose of the People’s House.  The mechanisms to outline the role of the Executive Council.  The consideration of ex officios of the THA to serve as Members of Parliament for Tobago.  The possibility of implementing an Office of Public Defender.  The need to state the provisions of National services.  The need to reconsider the Sectors proposed.

(See Verbatim Notes)

ADJOURNMENT

4.1 The Chairman thanked those who attended the public hearing and invited written submissions from other stakeholders.

4.2 The adjournment was taken at 5:11 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

June 12, 2018

MINUTES OF THE 7TH MEETING

OF THE

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ARNOLD THOMASOS (EAST) MEETING ROOM, LEVEL 6, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN TUESDAY JUNE 26, 2018 AT 10:30 A.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Ms. Colleen Holder Director, Corporate Communications Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Delrene Liverpool Legal Officer I

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

CALL TO ORDER

1.1 The Chairman called the Meeting to order at 10:42 a.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Ms. Ramdial, Mr. Hosein, Ms. Cudjoe and Dr. Mahabir had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Fifth Meeting held on May 24, 2018.

3.2 There being no corrections or omissions, the Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. Deyalsingh and seconded by Mr. Creese

3.3 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Sixth Meeting held on June 10, 2018.

3.4 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes, as amended, was moved by Mr. Rambharat and seconded by Mr. Creese. The Minutes were confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

4.1 The Chairman informed the Committee that, the Tobago House of Assembly submitted the justifications for the 8% Parliamentary Allocation proposed in the Bill.

4.2 The Chairman informed the Committee that by letter dated June 13, 2018, an in camera meeting was requested by the Forum of Political parties with the Committee in furtherance of the its deliberations on the Bill.

4.3 Discussions ensued on a possible date for the meeting with the Forum of Political Parties. No decision was taken.

REVIEW OF THE STAKEHOLDER MATRIX

5.1 The Chairman informed Members that the Secretariat prepared a compilation of the written submissions and comments received to date. Members were asked to specify any questions/ concerns they may have had after reviewing the submissions.

5.2 The following persons joined the meeting at this time:

CHIEF PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL Ms. Stacy-Lee Daniel Parliamentary Counsel II Legislative Drafting Department Ryan Awai Senior Parliamentary Counsel Legislative Drafting Department

ATTORNEY GENERAL’S SECRETARIAT Vashti Maraj Head Legal Services, PS Secretariat Ministry of the Attorney General Janelle Smith Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat Ministry of the Attorney General Jarvis Seechad Legal Counsel I, PS Secretariat Ministry of the Attorney General

5.3 A discussion, led by the Chairman, ensued regarding the relevance of a Tobago Service Commission.

5.4 The Chairman suggested that the Committee invites PMCD, CPO, DPA and representatives from the Legal Service Division to advise on a way forward with regard to a Tobago Service Commission.

5.5 The Chairman sought the Committee’s view on inviting Mr. Delano Bart, former Attorney General, St. Kitts and Nevis to an in-camera meeting to discuss the experience of St. Kitts and Nevis. The Committee agreed to meet with Mr. Bart at the next Committee meeting.

ADJOURNMENT

6.1 The meeting was adjourned to Friday July 6, 2018.

6.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

6.3 The adjournment was taken at 12:04p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

July 6, 2018

MINUTES OF THE 8TH MEETING

OF THE

PRESENT

Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Stephen Creese Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member

Secretariat Ms. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Ms. Melanie Chin Researcher Ms. Colleen Holder Director, Corporate Communications Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Delrene Liverpool Legal Officer I

ABSENT/EXCUSED Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member

CALL TO ORDER

1.1 The Chairman called the Meeting to order at 10:18 a.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Dr. Mahabir, Mr. Deyalsingh, Mr. Hinds, Ms. Ramdial and Mr. Indarsingh had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Seventh Meeting held on June 26, 2018.

3.2 There being no corrections or omissions, the Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. Cummings and seconded by Mr. De Freitas.

DISCUSSION WITH MR. DELANO F. BART

4.1 The Chairman informed Members that Mr. Delano F. Bart, Former Attorney General, St. Kitts and Nevis, was invited to join the Committee to share his views on the Bill and encouraged the Committee to raise any questions/ concerns they may have had.

4.2 The following persons joined the meeting at this time:

INVITED SPEAKER  Mr. Delano F. Bart - Former Attorney General, St. Kitts and Nevis

ATTORNEYS  Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel  Mr. Ryan Awai - Senior Parliamentary Counsel, Legislative Drafting Department  Ms. Vashti Maharaj - Head Legal Services, PS Secretariat  Mr. Javed R. Sajad - Legal Officer I, PS Secretariat  Ms. Stacy-Lee Daniell - Parliamentary Counsel II (Ag.) Legislative Drafting Department  Ms. Yolande Wilkinson - Parliamentary Counsel I, Legislative

Drafting Department  Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat

4.3 The Chairman welcomed Mr. Bart to the meeting and a discussion ensued on the following aspects of the Bill:

viii. The Pressures of the nation into self-determination; ix. The complexity of the term “equality of status”; x. The clarification of the term “territorial waters”; xi. The importance of the establishment of a system for dispute resolution; xii. The composition of the legislature; and xiii. The relevance of the establishment of a Tobago Service Commission.

4.4 The Chairman thanked Mr. Bart and the Attorneys for their contributions.

ADJOURNMENT 5.1 The meeting was adjourned to a date to be determined. 5.2 The Chairman thanked Members and Stakeholders for attending. 5.3 The adjournment was taken at 12:42p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct. Chairman

Secretary July 6, 2018

Appendix II – Minutes of Fourth Session Meetings

PRESENT Mrs. Bridgid Annisette-George Speaker of the House

Committee Members

Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat

Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodram Researcher Ms. Rachel Nunes Researcher

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member

INTRODUCTION

1.1 The Speaker called the meeting to order at 1:46 p.m. and welcomed Members present.

1.2 The Speaker explained that according to Standing Orders 110(2) of the House of Representatives and 100(2) of the Senate, her role is to facilitate the election of the Chairman.

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN

2.1 The Speaker invited nominations for the post of Chairman. Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis was nominated on a motion moved by and seconded by Mr. Clarence Rambharat.

2.2 There being no further nominations, Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis was declared the duly elected Chairman.

2.3 The Speaker informed the Committee of Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis’ election as the Chairman and congratulated her in her absence.

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN FOR THE DAY

3.1 The Speaker explained that in according to Standing Orders 112(4) of the House of Representatives and 102(4) of the Senate, in the absence of the Chairman, the Committee shall elect a Chairman for the day.

3.2 The Speaker invited nominations for the post of Chairman for the day. Mr. Nigel De Freitas was nominated on a motion moved by Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh and seconded by Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe.

3.3 There being no further nominations, Mr. Nigel De Freitas was declared the Chairman for the day.

3.4 The Speaker wished the Members success in their deliberations and invited the Mr. Nigel De Freitas to take the Chair.

[The Speaker exited the room]

DETERMINATION OF A QUORUM

3.1 The Committee agreed to a quorum of three (3) Members inclusive of the person in the Chair, provided that each House is represented.

TERMS OF REFERENCE

4.1 The Chairman informed Members of the Committee’s terms of reference, viz:

“to consider and report on a Bill entitled “The Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self-Government) Bill, 2018;

to adopt the work of the Committee appointed in the Third Session, Eleventh Parliament; and

to report by Monday December 31, 2018”

THE WAY FORWARD

Determination of the next Meeting Day and the Work Agenda

5.1 The Chairman led the Committee in a discussion on the Committee’s approach to the Work Agenda going forward.

5.2 The Committee agreed to meetings every Thursday at 2:00pm until the presentation of the report.

5.3 The Committee agreed to invite the Forum of Political Parties to its next meeting scheduled for Thursday 29, November 2018.

5.4 The Committee asked the Secretariat to circulate a list of the members of the Forum of Political Parties who would be attending the meeting.

5.5 The Committee agreed to have the Secretariat develop a detailed work programme given the December 31, 2018 deadline

ADJOURNMENT

6.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday November 29, 2018 at 2:00 p.m.

6.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

6.3 The adjournment was taken at 2:22 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman Secretary November 23, 2018

MINUTES OF THE 2ND MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN

THURSDAY NOVEMBER 29, 2018 AT 2:26 P.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Ms. Rachel Nunes Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Colleen Holder Director Corporate Communications

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member

ELECTION OF AN INTERIM CHAIRMAN

1.5 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Dr. Dillon-Remy to act as Interim Chairman until the arrival of the Chairman.

1.6 Mr. Indarsingh seconded.

1.7 No other nominations were made. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Interim Chairman.

1.8 The Interim Chairman called the meeting to order at 2:26 p.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 Mr. De Freitas welcomed Members present and informed them that Mr. Deyalsingh requested to be excused from the meeting and that the Chairman would be late.

INTRODUCTION OF THE NEW COMMITTEE MEMBER - DR. MARIA DILLON-REMY

3.1 The Interim Chairman informed Members that Dr Maria Dillon-Remy, was appointed to the Committee as a Member with effect from November 27, 2018 in lieu of Mr. Stephen Creese.

3.2 The Committee welcomed the new member to the Committee and thanked the former Member for his service to the Committee.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

4.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the First Meeting held on November 22, 2018.

4.2 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes, was moved by Mr. Indarsingh and seconded by Mr. Hosein. The Minutes were confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Determination of the next Meeting Day and the Work Agenda

Paragraph 5.3

5.1 The Chairman informed Members that communication was received from the Forum of Political Parties indicating that they were unable to attend the day’s meeting but confirmed their attendance for Committee meeting scheduled for Thursday December 6, 2018.

Paragraph 5.4

5.2 The Committee briefly discussed the complement of the members of the Forum of Political Parties who would be attending the Committee meeting scheduled for December 6, 2018.

REVIEW OF THE CRITICAL ISSUES ON THE BILL

6.1 The Chairman informed Members that Technocrats from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel and PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs and the Law Reform Commission were invited aid the Committee’s review of the Critical Issues on the Bill compiled from the stakeholder submissions received to date.

6.2 The following persons joined the meeting:

- Mrs. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai - Deputy Chief Parliamentary Counsel (Ag) - Mr. Javed Sajad - Legal Counsel I , PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs

(The Chairman joined the meeting)

6.3 During the review of the Critical Issues on the Bill compiled from the stakeholder submissions received to date and prepared by the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel, the Committee;

A. Agreed that consideration be given to the amendment of clause 5 by inserting a full stop after the second appearance of Tobago and to delete “and the Island of Tobago shall no longer carry the designation of a ward.”

B. Requested the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel to:

viii. Provide legal ramifications of the revocation of the 1898 Trinidad and Tobago Order in Council’s designation of Tobago as a ward of the Colony of Trinidad and Tobago; ix. Consider the removal of any reference to Tobago as a ward of Trinidad and Tobago in Ordinances/Laws where it now occurs; x. Draft alternative options to the bicameral system proposed for the Tobago Legislature utilizing St. Kitts and Nevis as a reference; xi. Review St. Kitts and Nevis’ Constitution and identify whether there are different definitions for St. Kitts, Nevis and St. Kitts and Nevis; and xii. Compile a list of matters that should remain exclusive to the Central Government.

THE WAY FORWARD

7.1 The Committee agreed that at the next meeting, it would study the information requested by Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel before it has its discussions with the Tobago Forum of Political Parties.

ADJOURNMENT

8.1 The meeting was adjourned to Wednesday December 5, 2018 at 10:00 p.m.

8.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

8.3 The adjournment was taken at 4:00 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

MINUTES OF THE 3RD MEETING

PRESENT

Committee Members

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mrs. Angelique Massiah Parliamentary Legal Officer Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member

ELECTION OF AN INTERIM CHAIRMAN

1.9 Mr. Rambharat was nominated by Mr. Cummings to act as Interim Chairman until the arrival of the Chairman.

1.10 Dr. Dillon-Remy seconded.

1.11 No other nominations were made. Mr. Rambharat took the Chair as Interim Chairman.

1.12 The Interim Chairman called the meeting to order at 2:31 p.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 Mr. Rambharat welcomed Members present and informed them that Mr. De Freitas was out of the country and requested to be excused from the meeting and that the Chairman would be late.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Second Meeting held on November 29, 2018.

3.2 The following corrections were made: . Item 6.3(A), page 3: the words ‘Agreed to amend’ were replaced by the words ‘Consideration be given to the amendment of’; and . Item 6.3(B), page 3: the word ‘Instructed’ was replaced with the word ‘Requested’.

3.3 There being no further omissions or corrections, the Minutes as amended were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. Indarsingh and seconded by Dr. Dillon-Remy.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Paragraph 6.3(B)

5.1 The Interim Chairman informed Members that the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel will finalize the information requested once the discussions with the Tobago Forum of Political Parties concluded.

DISCUSSIONS WITH THE TOBAGO FORUM OF POLITICAL PARTIES

6.1 The Interim Chairman informed Members that Members from the Tobago Forum of Political Parties were invited to hold clause by clause discussions on the Bill. Technocrats from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel (CPC) and PS Secretariat, Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs (AGLA) were also invited to take note of possible amendments and considerations.

(The Chairman joined the meeting)

6.2 The following persons joined the meeting:

The Tobago Forum of Political Parties -

- The Honourable Kelvin Charles - Chief Secretary, Tobago House of Assembly - Ms. Ingrid Melville - Autonomy Secretariat - Mr. Gilbert Peterson - Senior Counsel - Mr. Hochoy Charles - The Platform of Truth (TPT) - Mr. Samuel Mapp - The Platform of Truth (TPT) - Mrs. Juliana Henry-King - The Platform of Truth (TPT) - Mr. Stanford Callender - People’s National Movement (PNM) - Mr. Wendell Berkley - People’s National Movement (PNM) - Mr. Kwesi Des Vignes - People’s National Movement (PNM)

Staff from CPC and PS Secretariat AGLA -

- Mr. Aneil Joseph - Senior Parliamentary Counsel (Ag) - Ms. Stacy-lee Daniell - Parliamentary Counsel II (Ag) - Ms. Vashti Maharaj - Head Legal Services, PS Secretariat AGLA

- Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat AGLA

6.3 Introductions were made.

6.4 Discussions ensued on the Bill.

6.5 The Chief Secretary highlighted issues which were considered by the Forum to be important to the people of Tobago. Additionally, a number of issues were flagged as requiring further and more detailed discussions based on concerns raised by Members. The following is a summary of the issues so identified:

A. The issues highlighted by the Chief Secretary on behalf of the Tobago Forum as important to the people of Tobago.

i. A clear definition of Tobago- the Forum indicated that a definition of Tobago (by way of a delineation) is necessary. They believe that one ought to be clear in respect of the jurisdiction over which Tobago has jurisdiction to make laws. The absence of this definition in the Bill is a clear weakness in their view.

ii. A dispute resolution mechanism – the Forum was of the view that the Bill should consider a mechanism for resolving issues as a first step outside of normal court proceedings. They recommended that a dispute resolution mechanism ought to be considered as such an approach.

iii. The definition of internal self-government – the forum explained that self- government meant the right of the people of Tobago to determine how Tobago is run and governed.

iv. The definition of self-determination - given the number of attempts by Tobago to have its issues and a certain level of autonomy accorded to it, the forum felt that it should be stated categorically, that self-determination was a right of the people of Tobago, which finds expression in the economic and socio-political autonomy being granted in the Bill. They prefer that this term be written into and defined in the Constitution, because the Bill of Rights does not contain explicitly a right to self- determination generally.

v. Two Houses - the Forum indicated that Tobago’s position is that there should be two Houses. They acknowledged however that there are differing views and that there is a decision to be made on whether is the Tobago Legislature should be bicameral or unicameral.

vi. The issue of a sector as a voting population – the Forum indicated that they are still considering the methodology to be followed to have candidates selected to represent sectors, like the environmental sector, for example, in addition to the process for election to a seat in the People’s House.

B. Other issues identified for further discussion based on concerns raised by Members -

i. Infringing the rights of Tobago residents – Section 13 of the Constitution grants the ability to effect acts that are inconsistent with Sections 4 and 5 of the Constitution. The Committee raised that since Clause 8 seeks to amend Section 13 of the Constitution by inserting after the word “Act” the words “or Tobago Statute”, the Tobago Legislature would have the ability to abrogate the rights of Tobago residents.

ii. Keeping the Prime Minister informed – Consideration was given to the need for the Chief Secretary to keep the Prime Minister fully informed concerning the general conduct of the Tobago Island Administration.

iii. The Quarterly Meetings between the Prime Minister and the Chief Secretary – Concerns were raised on how these meetings were to be triggered.

iv. The Office of Chief Secretary – There was a brief discussion on the title referred to in the Bill during which the Forum indicated that while there was some fondness for the term Chief Secretary as Head of the Tobago Island Government, it would not object if the national Parliament agreed to the term Premier, which is in keeping with international practice.

v. Accountability mechanism – Committee Members raised with the forum the absence of accountability mechanisms in the Bill as drafted similar to those utilised in the national Parliament.

vi. Elections for Tobago Legislature – There were concerns that in the build up to the Upper House Elections, there could be political interference from the leading parties based in Tobago. Concerns were also raised on the scheduling of all the elections.

6.6 During the discussions, the Committee agreed to: i. Circulate the definitions of Trinidad and Tobago drafted by the Tobago Forum of Political Parties to members; and ii. Share the draft definitions of Trinidad and Tobago proposed by the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel with the Members of the Tobago Forum of Political Parties.

6.7 At the conclusion of the hearing, The Chairman thanked the Members from the Tobago Forum of Political Parties for attending and suspended the meeting at 5:11pm.

The representatives of the Tobago Forum of Political Parties left the Meeting

POST-HEARING DISCUSSION

7.1 The Meeting resumed at 5:15 pm in camera and members raised further concerns in relation to:

i. The need for dispute resolution provisions in Bill; ii. The issue of whether the Memorandum of Understanding in Clause 12 should be a statutory instrument; iii. The need for consultation on the financial provisions in the Bill; iv. The need for accountability provisions akin to those of the national Parliament; v. The need for consultations on Clauses 15-17 which establish the Tobago Service Commission; vi. The practicality of the different elections for two Chambers of the proposed Tobago Legislature; and vii. The need for the inclusion in the Bill of the formal constitutional procedure that will allow the moving of a vote of no confidence in the Head of the Tobago Island Government.

ADJOURNMENT

8.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday December 13, 2018 at 2:00 p.m.

8.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

8.3 The adjournment was taken at 5:39 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

TH MINUTES OF THE 4 MEETING OF THE

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN THURSDAY DECEMBER 13, 2018 AT 3:47 P.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mrs. Angelique Massiah Parliamentary Legal Officer Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member

1.13 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Mr. Rambharat to act as Interim Chairman until the arrival of the Chairman.

1.14 Dr. Dillon-Remy seconded.

1.15 No other nominations were made. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Interim Chairman.

1.16 Mr. De Freitas called the meeting to order at 3.47 p.m.

1.5 Mr. De Freitas welcomed Members present and informed them that Ms. Ramdial and Mr. Indarsingh requested to be excused from the meeting and that the Chairman would be late.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

2.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Third Meeting held on December 6, 2018.

2.2 The following corrections were made: . Item 6.2, page 3: remove Dr. Lewis Guy-Obiakor and Mr. Allan Richards from the list of persons present as a part of the Tobago Forum of Political Parties and include Mr. Gilbert Peterson SC; and . Item 7.1 (ii), page 5: replace “subject to parliamentary scrutiny” with “a statutory instrument”.

2.3 There being no further omissions or corrections, the Minutes as amended were confirmed on a motion moved by Dr. Deyalsingh and seconded by Dr. Dillon-Remy.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Paragraph 5.1

3.1 The Interim Chairman informed Members that the information requested of the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel arising from discussions with the Tobago Forum of Political Parties was circulated.

CLAUSE BY CLAUSE DISCUSSION ON THE BILL

4.1 The following persons joined the meeting:

- Mrs. Jonêtta Jeet Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel - Ms. Vashti Maharaj - Head, Legal Services, PS Secretariat AGLA - Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat AGLA - Ms. Maureen Matheson - Legal Officer, PS Secretariat AGLA

(The Chairman joined the meeting and took the Chair)

4.1 The Committee continued its clause by clause examination of the Bill from Clause 15, given that it had already discussed the preceding clauses.

4.3 During the deliberations, members referred to written stakeholder comments on the clauses under consideration and agreed that clarification was needed on a number of issues including:

viii. The issue of the creation of a Tobago Civil Service and a Tobago Service Commission; ix. The process to determine the list of the offices which will fall under the Tobago Civil Service; x. The Chief Secretary’s powers of veto with respect to certain offices within the Tobago Civil Service; xi. The advantages and disadvantages of a separate Tobago Civil Service. For example, will employees be required to resign from the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Service in order to be employed with the Tobago Civil Service and vice versa? xii. Will there be a separate National Insurance Board, Board of Inland Revenue and Central Authorities relevant to the Tobago Civil Service; xiii. The justification for the creation of a Tobago Gazette; xiv. The concerns raised by the elections and Boundaries Commission over the proposed election to the Peoples’ House based on parishes, given their disproportionate population sizes; xv. The redrawing of boundaries and electoral districts to facilitate the proposed increase in Assemblymen; and xvi. The need for the establishment of oversight mechanisms within the Tobago Legislature; xvii. The need for the Committee to obtain expert advice on the subject of fiscal federalism.

4.4 During the discussions, the Committee agreed to: i. Request that the Committee’s Secretariat:

a. Propose legislative options for the Tobago Legislature having regard to the views expressed by all stakeholders including the Tobago Forum of Political Parties; b. All options proposed should provide for systems of legislative oversight and scrutiny within the Tobago legislature; and c. Utilize all available media to publicize the contents of the Bill and the work of the Committee. ii. Invite the Service Commissions’ Department, the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago to assist the Committee at its next meeting scheduled for Thursday January 3, 2019 based on their written submissions in response to the Committee’s call for stakeholder comments.

ADJOURNMENT

5.1 The meeting was adjourned to Thursday January 3, 2019 at 10:00 a.m.

5.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

5.3 The adjournment was taken at 5:01 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

December 28, 2018.

MINUTES OF THE 5TH MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN THURSDAY JANUARY 3, 2019 AT 10:26 A.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Mrs. Angelique Massiah Parliamentary Legal Officer Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Keisha Bharath Researcher Ms. Kenika Espinosa Researcher Ms. Vanna Jankiepersad Researcher

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member

CALL TO ORDER

1.1 The Chairman called the Meeting to order at 10:26 a.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Mr. Rambharat, Ms. Ramdial, Ms. Cudjoe and Mr. Indarsingh had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Fourth Meeting held on December 13, 2018.

3.2 The following corrections were made: . Para 2.2, page 2: Mr. Allen Richards should be spelt Mr. Allan Richards; and . Para 4.3 (v), page 3: replace “Central Bank” with “Chief Personnel Officer”.

3.3 There being no further omissions or corrections, the Minutes, as amended, were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. De Freitas and seconded by Mr. Hosein.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Paragraph 4.3(x)

4.1 The Chairman informed Members that the Office of the Parliament’s Procurement Manager, with the assistance of the UNDP, was able to source and propose an expert on fiscal federalism to the Clerk of the House to assist the Committee. His resume was circulated to all members present.

Paragraph 4.4 (ii)

4.2 The Chairman informed Members that by letters dated December 21, 2018 the Director of Personnel Administration (Ag.) was invited to the instant public hearing to assist the Committee with its consideration of issues relevant to the proposed Tobago Civil Service and the Tobago Service Commission.

4.3 The Chairman informed Members that by letters dated December 21, 2018 the Tobago Forum of Political Parties and the Chief Administrator of the Tobago House of Assembly were informed of the instant public hearing and invited to be present.

4.4 The Chairman informed Members that by letters dated December 21, 2018, the Permanent Secretary (Ag.), Ministry of Finance and the Governor of the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago were invited to the Committee’s Sixth Meeting scheduled for January 14, 2019 at 2:00pm (given that critical office holders at the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank would have been unavailable for the meeting of January 3rd).

PRE-HEARING DISCUSSIONS

5.1 The Chairman advised Members that the main objective of the instant hearing was to obtain expert opinion on the proposed establishment of a Tobago Civil Service and Tobago Service Commission from the Service Commissions Department.

5.2 The Chairman invited brief discussion and there being no other issues to address, the meeting was suspended at 10:34 a.m.

PUBLIC HEARING WITH OFFICIALS FROM THE SERVICE COMMISSIONS DEPARTMENT:

6.1 The following persons joined the meeting:

SERVICE COMMISSIONS DEPARTMENT Mrs. Debra Parkinson Director of Personnel Administration (Ag.) Ms. Marcia Pile O’Brady Deputy Director of Personnel Administration (Ag.) Ms. Margaret Morales Executive Director, Human Resource Management (Public Service Commission) Mrs. Natasha Seecharan Legal Advisor

P.S. SECRETARIAT MINISTRY OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND LEGAL AFFAIRS

Mr. Aneil Joseph Senior Parliamentary Counsel (Ag.) Ms. Vashti Maharaj Head, Legal Services Ms. Janelle Smith Legal Officer II

TOBAGO FORUM OF POLITICAL PARTIES

The Honourable Kelvin Charles Chief Secretary, Tobago House of Assembly

Mr. Raye Sandy Chief Administrator, Tobago House of Assembly Mr. Gilbert Peterson Senior Counsel Mr. Hochoy Charles The Platform of Truth (TPT) Mr. Samuel Mapp The Platform of Truth (TPT) Mrs. Juliana Henry-King The Platform of Truth (TPT) Mr. Stanford Callender People’s National Movement (PNM) Mr. Wendell Berkley People’s National Movement (PNM) Mr. Kwesi Des Vignes People’s National Movement (PNM) Dr. Levis Guy-Obiakor Head, Autonomy Secretariat Ms. Ingrid Melville Autonomy Secretariat Mr. Allan Richards Autonomy Secretariat

6.2 The meeting resumed in public at 10:42 a.m.

6.3 The Chairman indicated that the hearing was being broadcast live on the Parliament Channel 11, Radio 105.5 FM, and the Parliament’s YouTube Channel, ParlView.

6.4 The Chairman informed the public that the Committee was supported by technocrats from the P.S. Secretariat Ministry of The Attorney General And Legal Affairs and members of staff from the Office of the Parliament.

6.4 Introductions were made.

6.5 The Chairman reiterated the objective of the hearing “to obtain expert opinion on the proposed establishment of a Tobago Civil Service and Tobago Service Commission”

6.6 The key issues raised with the Service Commissions Department included:

i. The history of Tobago’s relationship with the Public Service Commission of Trinidad and Tobago resident in Trinidad; ii. Whether the proposed Tobago Service Commission (TSC) will operate along similar lines of the other Service Commissions; iii. Whether persons employed under the proposed TSC would be able to be transferred or be seconded to another Commission; iv. The scope of upward mobility for a person employed under the proposed TSC; v. Whether the administrative challenges that currently plague the Public Service would be replicated in the Tobago Civil Service as proposed;

vi. The likelihood that with the establishment of the proposed TSC, the growing number of vacant offices with bodies (acting positions) would decrease; vii. Whether a citizen resident in Trinidad would be able to apply for a post in the Tobago civil service; viii. Whether a citizen resident in Tobago would be able to apply for a post in Trinidad in the Civil Service of Trinidad and Tobago; ix. The practicality of creating a Deputy Director of Personnel Administration – Tobago office specifically for Tobago public officers as opposed to a completely separate service commission; x. If prison and fire service officers based in Tobago that are currently managed by the Public Service Commission would become the responsibility of the proposed TSC within the boundaries of Tobago; xi. Whether the Teaching Service Commission would continue to be responsible for Tobago based teachers; xii. If public officers under the proposed TSC would be able to file appeals with the Public Service Appeal Board; xiii. Whether the proposed changes will require separate central agencies specific to Tobago namely a Tobago National Insurance Board, Tobago Board of Inland Revenue and Tobago Chief Personnel Officer; xiv. The proposed veto by the Chief Secretary of executive level public officers of the proposed TSC; xv. The option of leaving the power of veto with the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, but requiring consultation with the Chief Secretary on the proposed TSC appointments; and

6.7 With the agreement of the Committee, the Chairman opened the floor to allow the Committee to receive comments from the Members of the Forum of Political Parties.

6.8 The Director of Personnel Administration gave an undertaking to make a comprehensive written submission based on the issues raised during the hearing.

6.9 The Tobago Forum of Parties gave the assurance that it would provide written comments on particular issues that arose during the meeting.

6.10 At the conclusion of the hearing, the Chairman thanked the officials from the Service Commissions Department and the Tobago Forum of Political Parties for attending and suspended the meeting at 12:38 p.m.

6.11 The representatives from the Service Commissions Department and the Tobago Forum of Political Parties left the Meeting

POST-HEARING DISCUSSION

7.1 The Committee reconvened at 12:38 p.m. and engaged in brief post-hearing discussions in relation to the issues raised during the public hearing.

7.2 Concern was raised by Members over the practicality of the proposed Tobago Service Commission and Tobago Civil Service. Members agreed on the following course of action:

Issue Action Action Officers The need to examine the 1) Assessing the rationale of a separate Office of the rationale and feasibility of Tobago Service Commission; and Chief establishing a separate Tobago 2) Formulating options for amendments to Parliamentary Service Commission given that the Constitution to either devolve or Counsel this will create added delegate the responsibilities of the Service bureaucracy and a duplication Commissions Department to an of issues. independent body or public officer in Tobago.

The need to examine and clarify 1) Assessing the proposed scope and Service the scope and powers of the powers of the Tobago Service Commission Commissions proposed Tobago Service in relation to the operations of the Service Department Commission, its relations to the Commissions Department; and Service Commissions 2) Determining the possibility of Department and the likely mandating that the composition of the recruitment difficulties given Service Commissions Department includes the limited pool of qualified two Tobagonians for matters involving personnel residing in Tobago. Tobago based public officers.

7.3 The Committee agreed to:

i. Forward all correspondence received by the Tobago Forum of Political Parties, and Service Commissions Department to the technocrats at the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel; and ii. Invite the Chief Personnel Officer to a meeting with the Committee to discuss the Personnel Department’s role in the establishment of a Tobago Civil Service and Tobago Service Commission

7.4 The Committee proposed that:

i. The expert identified by the UNDP who would be available to assist the Committee with understanding of fiscal federalism should also be approached with regard to

the Committee’s concerns on the Tobago Civil Service and Tobago Service Commission; and ii. It should engage with someone who understands the nuances of the Service Commissions in Trinidad and Tobago and its Commonwealth neighbours. The Commonwealth Secretariat was suggested.

NEXT MEETING

8.1 The Committee agreed to meet again on Monday January 14, 2018 at 2:00 p.m., at which the Committee will engage the Ministry of Finance and Central Bank to gauge their opinions on the financial provisions proposed in the Bill.

ADJOURNMENT

9.1 There being no other business, the Chairman thanked all Members and adjourned the meeting to Monday January 14, 2018 at 2:00 p.m.

9.2 The adjournment was taken at 1:20 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

MINUTES OF THE 6TH MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN FRIDAY FEBRUARY 8, 2019 AT 9:35 A.M.

PRESENT

Committee Members

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member

ABSENT/EXCUSED Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

ELECTION OF INTERIM CHAIRMAN

1.1 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Dr. Dillon-Remy as Interim Chairman until the arrival of the Chairman.

1.2 Mr. Deyalsingh seconded the motion.

1.3 No other nominations were made. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Interim Chairman.

CALL TO ORDER

2.1 The Interim Chairman called the Meeting to order at 9:35 a.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

3.1 The Interim Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Ms. Ramdial and Ms. Cudjoe had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

4.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Fifth Meeting held on January 3, 2019.

4.2 The following corrections were made: . Para 6.1 Dr. Levis Guy-Obiakor, Head of the Autonomy Secretariat, was not in attendance of the meeting and his name should be removed.

4.3 There being no further omissions or corrections, the Minutes, as amended, were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. Hinds and seconded by Mr. Deyalsingh.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Re Para 7.4 (i.)

5.1 The Interim Chairman informed Members that the Procurement Unit of the Office of the Parliament, after liaising with the UNDP, as requested, contacted Professor Nico Steytler, an

expert on Fiscal Federalism based in the University of Western Cape, South Africa to assist the Committee. Professor Steytler compiled a document offering his commentary on matters of finance and revenue sharing in the Bill which was submitted to the Committee Secretariat and circulated to members.

Re: para 7.4 (ii)

5.2 The Interim Chairman informed Members that the Secretariat was in the process of contacting the Commonwealth Secretariat to gain a better understanding of the nuances of the Service Commissions in Trinidad and Tobago and its Commonwealth neighbours.

Re: para 7.2

5.3 The Interim Chairman kindly requested Members to hold their commentary on the issues that arose out of the previous meeting which addressed the practicality of the proposed Tobago Service Commission and Tobago Civil Service pending the Committee’s discussions on this issue with Professor Steytler at a date to be confirmed.

5.4 The Interim Chairman informed Members that by letters dated January 29, 2019 the Permanent Secretary to the Ministry of Finance and the Governor of the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago were invited to the instant public hearing to provide their expert opinion on the subject matter. 5.5 The Interim Chairman informed Members that by letters dated January 29, 2019 the Tobago Forum of Political Parties and the Chief Administrator of the Tobago House of Assembly were informed of the instant public hearing and invited to attend and that they had agreed to be present.

Re: para 6.8 & 6.9

5.6 The Interim Chairman informed Members that letters will be sent to Tobago Forum of Political Parties and the Director of Personnel Administration to remind them of the commitments made at the prior meeting to provide written submissions to the Committee.

PRE-HEARING DISCUSSIONS

6.1 The Interim Chairman advised Members that the main objective of the hearing was to obtain expert opinion on the proposed financial provisions outlined in the Bill.

6.2 The Interim Chairman invited brief discussions during which a number of issues were raised including the need to examine the restrictions placed on national borrowing and to consider whether the recommendations offered by Professor Steytler concerning enforcing borrowing limits and ensuring accountability on the part of the Tobago Executive Council were in line with this.

. (The Chairman joined the meeting and took the Chair) 6.3 The meeting was suspended at 9:51 a.m.

PUBLIC HEARING WITH OFFICIALS FROM THE SERVICE COMMISSIONS DEPARTMENT:

7.1 The following persons joined the meeting:

THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE Mrs. Suzette Lee-Chee Permanent Secretary Mrs. Michelle Durham-Kissoon Permanent Secretary Mr. Narine Charran Assistant Director of the Economic Management Division

THE CENTRAL BANK OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO Dr. Sandra Sookram Deputy Governor Mr. Garnett Samuel Manager, Research Ms. Giselle Samuel Senior Legal Counsel

P.S. SECRETARIAT MINISTRY OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND LEGAL AFFAIRS

Mr. Samraj Harripaul, SC Senior Counsel, Law Reform Commission Mr. Aneil Joseph Senior Parliamentary Counsel (Ag) Ms. Janelle Smith Legal Officer II

THE TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Mr. Raye Sandy Chief Administrator, THA Ms. Cheryl-Ann Solomon Administrator, Community Development, Enterprise Development and Labour, THA Mrs. Denese Toby-Quashie Administrator, Finance and the Economy, THA

Mrs. Wendy Guy-Hernandez Administrator, Sport and Youth Affairs, THA Mr. Wendell Bernard Director of Finance, THA Mrs. Petal-Ann Roberts Chief Management Accountant, THA Ms. Shelly Trim Budget Analyst IV, THA Mrs. Petal Daniel-Benoit Senior Financial Analyst, THA

THE TOBAGO FORUM OF POLITICAL PARTIES

The Honourable Kelvin Charles Chief Secretary, THA Mr. Hochoy Charles The Platform of Truth (TPT) Mr. Samuel Mapp The Platform of Truth (TPT) Mrs. Juliana Henry-King The Platform of Truth (TPT) Mr. Stanford Callender People’s National Movement (PNM) Mr. Wendell Berkley People’s National Movement (PNM) Mr. Allan Richards Autonomy Secretariat Mr. Vanus James Autonomy Secretariat

7.2 The Chairman resumed the meeting in public at 10:11 a.m. and welcomed all in attendance.

7.3 The Chairman indicated that the hearing was being broadcast live on the Parliament Channel 11, Radio 105.5 FM, and the Parliament’s YouTube Channel, ParlView.

7.4 The Chairman informed the public that the Committee was supported by technocrats from the P.S. Secretariat Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs and members of staff from the Office of the Parliament.

7.5 Introductions were made.

7.6 The Chairman reiterated the objective of the hearing: “To obtain expert opinion on the proposed financial provisions outlined in the Bill for the Committee”

7.7 The key issues raised by the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank included: . The need for a policy statement that explains with the use of data, the formula which resulted in the proposed minimum transfer of 8% of appropriation per fiscal year by the Parliament to the Tobago House of Assembly, such policy to include the accountability and reporting mechanisms and the process by which these funds will be appropriated for use in Tobago;

. The need for clarification on whether the revenues collected in Tobago and in Trinidad for the account of Tobago are to be netted out of the 8% or whether such revenues are in addition to the 8%; . The need for clarification on how the proposed Fiscal Review Commission (FRC) is to execute its outlined responsibilities, given the fact that it seems to have no executive powers; . The role of the Ministry of Finance in financial matters, generally; . The requirement for the Ministry of Finance to be enlisted to provide technical support and guidance for the proposed FRC; . The need for the entities charged with ensuring that funds are spent in accordance with parliamentary appropriations to be identified; . The jurisdiction of the Tobago Island Government over the coastal waters should be clearly defined. Clarity is also required in relation to the definition of “marine resources”, “marine boundaries”, “superjacent airspace” and “telecommunications” as referred to in the Bill; . What would be the relationship between the proposed FRC and the Board of Inland Revenue; . The need for a clear policy statement on the legislative and regulatory framework that will govern the execution and management of the Tobago borrowing programme; . That any borrowing by a subnational government could potentially impact the credit ratings of the central government by increasing the level of risk in the debt portfolio; . An important questioned to be determined is whether a publicly traded holding company which has offices or subsidiaries in both islands of Trinidad and Tobago should pay taxes to the Central Government alone or to the Tobago Island Government as well; . That the data for the disaggregated revenue for Tobago as well as the revenue generating potential of the Island be generated; . That in relation to the proposed Contingency Fund, there must be clearly established guidelines for the application, the approval and the distribution of expenditure of the funds for extraordinary expenditures; . That it be clarified whether existing national policies for adherence to corporate governance standards and fiduciary responsibilities of accounting for revenue and expenditure would be streamlined in the policies of the Tobago Island Government in regard to State Enterprises; . the need for the legislation which will guide the financial management of Tobago i.e. Financial Rules which should be subject to review by a Joint Select Committee of Parliament;

. That a comprehensive policy paper be developed to clarify the intent of the Bill on all financial matters.

7.8 With the agreement of the Committee, the Chairman opened the floor to allow the Committee to receive comments from the Members of the Forum of Political Parties.

7.9 The Chief Secretary of Tobago explained that the proposed 8% appropriation was based on the quantum of funds the Tobago economy would have been deprived of over the last 22 years as well as other factors such as the perceived underfunding and underdevelopment of the island of Tobago. Mr. Hochoy Charles added that many of the issues raised were items which had been addressed by the Tobago House of Assembly Act No. 40 of 1996.

7.10 The Tobago Forum of Parties gave the assurance that it would provide written comments on particular issues that arose during the meeting.

7.11 At the conclusion of the hearing, the Chairman thanked the officials from the Central Bank, the Ministry of Finance and the Tobago Forum of Political Parties for attending and suspended the meeting at 12:13 p.m.

7.12 The representatives from the Central Bank, the Ministry of Finance and the Tobago Forum of Political Parties left the Meeting.

POST-HEARING DISCUSSION

8.1 The Committee reconvened at 12:17 p.m. and engaged in brief post-hearing discussions in relation to the issues raised during the public hearing.

8.2 Concern was raised by Members over the proposed financial arrangements outlined in the Bill. Members agreed on the following course of action:

Issue Responsibility of the JSC Responsible officials The need to address Virtual meeting with the expert on fiscal Committee Secretariat issues arising over the federalism, Professor Nico Steytler for a fiscal arrangements brain storming session on his written between the Central comments

Government of Trinidad Conduct a hearing with the Auditor General, Committee Secretariat and Tobago and the the Business Chambers and other relevant Tobago Island persons for their expert opinions on the Government. fiscal arrangements contained in the Bill Examine the data and statistics on taxes and Ministry of Planning and other revenues generated of revenue raised Development & The Ministry in Tobago of Finance-Treasury Division

Arrive at a policy position on the fiscal The Ministry of Finance to arrangements between the Tobago Island draft options for consideration Government and the Central Government, by the Committee including the role of the proposed Fiscal Review Commission

Arrive at a policy position on the Dispute The Chief Parliamentary Resolution Commission which was raised by Counsel to advise the Tobago Forum at an earlier meeting

NEXT MEETING

9.1 The Committee agreed to meet again on Friday 22 February, 2019 at 10:00 a.m. At this meeting the Committee will hold discussions with Professor Nico Steytler, Fiscal Federalism Expert.

ADJOURNMENT

10.1 There being no other business, the Chairman thanked all Members and adjourned the meeting to Friday 22 February, 2019 at 10:00 a.m.

10.2 The adjournment was taken at 12:36 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

MINUTES OF THE 7TH MEETING

PRESENT

Committee Members

Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member

Secretariat Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Stephen Boodhram Researcher Ms. Ashaki Alexis Researcher

ABSENT/EXCUSED Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member

ELECTION OF INTERIM CHAIRMAN

1.1 Mr. De Freitas was nominated by Dr. Dillon-Remy as Interim Chairman until the arrival of the Chairman.

1.2 Ms. Ramona Ramdial seconded the motion.

1.3 No other nominations were made. Mr. De Freitas took the Chair as Interim Chairman.

CALL TO ORDER

2.1 The Interim Chairman called the Meeting to order at 10:33 a.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

3.1 The Interim Chairman welcomed Members present and informed them that Mr. Rambharat Dr. Deyalsingh, Mr. Hinds, and Mr. Cummings had asked to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

4.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Sixth Meeting held on February 8, 2019.

4.3 The motion for the confirmation of the Minutes, was moved by Dr. Dillon-Remy and seconded by Mr. Hosein. The Minutes were confirmed.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Re Para 5.2

5.1 The Interim Chairman informed Members that the Secretariat requested assistance from the Commonwealth Secretariat on the nuances of Service Commission in other Commonwealth jurisdictions via the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs. The Secretariat is awaiting correspondence from the Commonwealth Secretariat.

Re: para 5.6

5.2 The Interim Chairman informed Members that letters of reminder were sent to the Tobago Forum of Political Parties and the Director of Personnel Administration to provide written submissions to the Committee.

5.3 The Tobago Forum of Political Parties indicated that their submissions would be forwarded to the Committee by March 25, 2019. The Director of Personnel Administration indicated that their submissions would be forwarded to the Committee by March 29, 2019.

Re: para 8.2

5.4 The Interim Chairman informed the Committee that by letter dated February 14, 2019, a request for data was made to the Ministry of Finance for the disaggregated revenue for Tobago, the revenue generating potential of the Island and a policy position of the financial provisions in the Bill.

5.5. The Ministry of Finance forwarded preliminary data and statistics related to the revenue generated in Trinidad and Tobago respectively for the last 22 years. Verified data and statistics would be sent to the Committee at a later date.

5.4 The Interim Chairman informed Members that by letters dated March 7, 2019, the Ministry of Finance requested an extension to April 5th, 2019 to submit their proposed policy options for the fiscal arrangements and for revenue sharing between Trinidad and Tobago due to the Ministry needing to collate input from its various departments.

REVIEW OF SUBMISSIONS WITH PROFESSOR NICO STEYTLER

6.1 The Interim Chairman advised Members that the main objective of the meeting was to discuss Professor Nico Steytler’s comments on the Bill. (The Chairman joined the meeting and took the Chair) 6.3 The meeting was suspended at 10:42 a.m.

6.4 The Chairman informed Members that Attorneys at Law from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel (CPC) and Members from the Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs (AGLA) were invited to join the Committee’s discussion.

6.5 The following persons joined the meeting:

Staff from CPC and PS Secretariat AGLA -

- Mrs. Jannetta Jeet-Ramsahai - Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel - Ms. Stacy-lee Daniell - Parliamentary Counsel II (Ag) - Ms. Vashti Maharaj - Head Legal Services, PS Secretariat

AGLA - Ms. Janelle Smith - Legal Officer II, PS Secretariat AGLA

6.6 The Chairman resumed the meeting at 10:53 a.m. and welcomed all in attendance.

6.7 The Chairman informed Members and stakeholders that Professor Nico Steytler will be contacted via Skype.

6.8 Introductions were made.

6.9 Discussions ensued on Professor Nico Steytler’s comments on the Bill.

6.10 The key issues raised Professor Nico Steytler included: . The number of structural uncertainties that directly affect the financial arrangements outlined in the Bill; . The difficulty of properly defining the powers and functions of the Tobago Island Government (TIG) given the limited number of matters listed under Schedule Four; . The means by which the TIG will finance the expenses associated with the execution of the provisions outlined in the Bill; . The possibility of the TIG having its own currency given that Monetary Policy is not included under Schedule Four of the Bill; . There was no reference to who would be responsible for custom duties in Tobago; . Whether there should be concurrency between the executive powers of the National Parliament and the Tobago Legislature; . The need for a dispute resolution clause/mechanism to be included in the Bill as a means of resolving any conflict that may arise between the National Government and the TIG; . The need for either the Ministry of Finance or the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago to articulate a financing model for the TIG that should clearly defined the taxing powers and Monetary Policy for Tobago; . The likelihood that the absence of taxing responsibilities and monetary policy in Schedule 4 of the Bill may cause a different revenue raising situation in Tobago; . The possibility of having to use Transfers to correct the vertical fiscal gaps that may arise when expenditure exceeds the revenue collected by the TIG as a means of maintaining equalized services on both islands,

. The need to clearly define the areas of responsibility the proposed Fiscal Review Commission (FRC) will be mandated to execute as well as the powers and authority granted to execute those functions; . The need to clarify who would regulate and manage the revenue collection and sharing of the non-renewable natural resources found within the territorial waters of Tobago; . The ambiguity of the provisions in the Bill given that there is no policy statement to define the overall framework with regards to roles, powers, functions and autonomy status of the TIG; . The need for a needs assessment to determine whether the proposed minimum transfer of 8% of appropriation per fiscal year by the National Parliament would be sufficient to satisfy all the functions to be performed by the TIG; . The methods and justifications used by sub-national governments in other countries to determine the amount of funds appropriated to them by their National Parliament; . The possible need for oversight and reporting mechanisms to ensure there is transparency, accountability and value for money in the use of funds appropriated to the TIG; . The impact of the TIG having the unfettered ability to impose business and corporate taxes on all companies operating in Tobago or which operate offices, branches or do any kind of business in any way in Tobago . Thoughts on an overarching Revenue Authority to administer the financial relationship between Trinidad and Tobago given that the role and responsibilities of the FRC maybe too extensive for it handle alone; . There is a need for a clear policy statement on the legislative and regulatory framework that will govern the execution and management of the Tobago borrowing programme given that the Bill on face value proposes that the TIG have limitless powers to borrow locally and internationally; . The potential impact of a Subnational Government’s inability to service a loan affecting the creditworthiness of the Central Government which is implicitly the guarantor of all borrowings done by Subnational Governments; . The possible need for the inclusion of provisions that will allow the Central Government to intervene in matters that may affect the country as a whole or any instance where administrative discrepancies may lead to the island government failure in Tobago; . The need for established principles that should define the monitoring and supporting role of the central government as it assists the TIG in fulfills its function allocated to it in the Constitution; and

. The monitoring and intervention role the Ministry of Finance, Auditor General or a Joint Select Committee could play with respect to the oversight of the TIG as well as the need for fairly strict rules established in the Constitution to govern this monitoring and intervention.

6.11 At the conclusion of the Meeting, the Chairman thanked Professor Nico Steytler and suspended the meeting at 12:15 p.m.

6.12 The Attorneys at Law from the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel (CPC) and Members from the Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs (AGLA) left the Meeting.

POST-MEETING DISCUSSION

7.1 The Committee reconvened at 12:17 p.m. and Members raised further concerns in relation to: xviii. The need to establish a Tax Policy that will define the taxing powers of the THA; xix. The 8% not reflecting the financial needs of Tobago; xx. Tobago’s revenue raising potential; xxi. The issues with regard to then regulation of marine resources; and xxii. The delineation of Tobago separate and apart from Trinidad.

7.2 The Members requested the following: i. That the Policy Paper received from the Tobago Forum of Political Parties be circulated to Members; and ii. That the link to the meeting with Professor Nico Steytler be forwarded to Members and the Tobago Forum of Political Parties.

7.3 The Chairman suggested that the Committee hold another meeting with Professor Nico Steytler where the Tobago Forum of Political Parties would be invited to pose questions and seek clarification on the topics discussed at the day’s meeting.

7.4 The Chairman remind Members that the deadline date to submit the report to Parliament is May 27th, 2019.

ADJOURNMENT

8.1 There being no other business, the Chairman thanked all Members and adjourned the meeting to a date to be determined by the Secretariat.

8.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

8.3 The adjournment was taken at 12:27 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

March 19, 2019

Appendix III - Minutes of Fifth Session Meetings

PRESENT Mrs. Bridgid Annisette-George Speaker of the House

Committee Members

Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member and Chairman for the Day Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member

Secretariat

Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Mrs. Angelique Massiah Parliamentary Legal Officer Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Justin Jarrette Researcher

ABSENT / EXCUSED Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member

Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

INTRODUCTION

1.1 The Speaker called the meeting to order at 11:22 a.m. and welcomed Members present.

1.2 The Speaker explained that, according to Standing Orders 110(2) of the House of Representatives and 100(2) of the Senate, her role was to facilitate the election of the Chairman.

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN

2.1 The Speaker invited nominations for the post of Chairman. Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis was nominated on a motion moved by Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh and seconded by Mr. Nigel De Freitas.

2.2 There being no further nominations, Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis was declared the duly elected Chairman.

2.3 The Speaker informed the Committee of Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis’ election as the Chairman and congratulated her in her absence.

[The Speaker exited the room]

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN FOR THE DAY

3.1 The Secretary announced that in the absence of the Chairman, the Committee is required to elect a Chairman for the day, in accordance with Standing Orders 112(4) of the House of Representatives and 102(4) of the Senate.

3.2 The Secretary invited nominations for the post of Chairman for the day. Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds was nominated on a motion moved by Mr. Nigel De Freitas and seconded by Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh.

3.3 There being no further nominations, the Secretary declared Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds the duly elected Chairman for the day.

3.4 Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds took the chair.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

4.1 Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds welcomed Members present and informed them that Mr. Clarence Rambharat had requested to be excused from the meeting.

DETERMINATION OF A QUORUM

5.1 The Committee agreed to a quorum of three (3) Members inclusive of the person in the Chair, provided that each House is represented.

TERMS OF REFERENCE

6.1 The Chairman informed Members of the Committee’s terms of reference, viz:

“To consider the Constitution (Amendment) (Tobago Self-Government) Bill 2018 and report by December 31, 2019; and

to adopt the work of the Joint Select Committee in the Fourth Session, Eleventh Parliament.”

THE WAY FORWARD

Determination of the next Meeting Day and the Work Agenda

7.1 The Chairman led the Committee in a discussion on the Committee’s approach to the Work Agenda going forward.

7.2 The Chairman reminded Members that a significant amount of work had been done by the Committee and research material prepared by the Secretariat in the last session and that all this work was brought forward to the current session.

7.3 The Chairman informed Members that all such work, including submissions received and notes of evidence taken at hearings will be stored in the Committee’s Parlcloud drive, recently created, and that the link to this drive will be shared with all members of the Committee by the Secretariat before the next meeting of the Committee.

7.4 The Chairman reminded Members that the key areas of policy that still needed to be further discussed included:  The Division of Powers between the State of Trinidad and Tobago and the Island of Tobago;  The Tobago Legislature;  The Tobago Service Commission and Civil Service;  A Dispute Resolution Solution; and  The Financial Provisions

7.5 The Chairman indicated that there are comprehensive submissions before the Committee on these policy areas including the detailed position of the Tobago Forum.

7.6 Discussions ensued.

7.7 During the discussions –

I. Mr. De Freitas reminded the Committee of its commitment to holding a public discussion forum in Tobago East; II. Mr. Hosein proposed inviting the Elections and Boundaries Commission to a public meeting to hear their views on the proposed composition of the Tobago Legislature; III. Mr. Indarsingh requested that, when determining a time for future meetings in Tobago, the Committee exercise tact and sensitivity in regard to the religious needs of the people of Tobago; IV. Mr. Indarsingh inquired whether there was a policy statement accompanying the Bill.

7.8 The Chairman reminded Mr. Indarsingh that while no policy statement had been forwarded to Cabinet, a policy statement prepared by the Tobago Forum of Political Parties had been submitted to the Committee for its reference. Ms. Cudjoe stressed that the Cabinet did not alter the policy proposal from the Tobago Forum which formed the basis for the Bill before the Committee.

7.9 At the end of the discussions, there was agreement that –

i. the Secretariat should revise the stakeholder matrix to reflect (a) the different policy areas contained in the Bill; (b) stakeholders’ comments; and (c) options/models based on what exists in various jurisdiction;

ii. the Committee would begin its work with a consideration of the policy areas contained in the Bill together with the available research material brought forward;

iii. the Committee would return to Tobago to continue discussions with stakeholders in Tobago after it has advanced its consideration of the Bill to a sufficient degree. The date and time for the return visit to Tobago will be determined at a subsequent meeting.

7.10 The Committee discussed at length possible meeting dates and times. Members took note of the fact that the usual Thursday afternoon time slot would be unavailable to the Committee during the month of November. The Committee agreed to next meet on Monday November 18th at 3:00 pm.

ADJOURNMENT

6.1 The meeting was adjourned.

6.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

6.3 The adjournment was taken at 12:05 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary

November 8, 2019

ND MINUTES OF THE 2 MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN

MONDAY NOVEMBER 18, 2019 AT 3:19 P.M.

PRESENT Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

Secretariat Mrs. Jacqui Sampson-Meiguel Secretary Ms. Keiba Jacob Assistant Secretary Ms. Sheranne Samuel Assistant Secretary Mrs. Angelique Massiah Parliamentary Legal Officer Mr. Darien Buckmire Researcher Mr. Justin Jarrette Researcher

Chief Parliamentary Counsel Mrs. Jonetta Jeet-Ramsahai Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel Mrs. Stacy-Lee Daniell Parliamentary Counsel I

ABSENT / EXCUSED Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member

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INTRODUCTION

1.2 The Chairman called the meeting to order at 3:19 p.m. and welcomed all present.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman informed Members that Ms. Cudjoe, Mr. Hosein and Mr. Rambharat requested to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the First Meeting held on November 8, 2019.

3.2 The Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. De Freitas and seconded by Ms. Ramdial.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

Paragraph 5.1

4.1 Dr. Dillon-Remy asked whether the quorum of three (3) Members included the Chair. It was confirmed that it indeed was inclusive of the Chair.

Paragraph 7.4

4.2 Mr. Indarsingh enquired how the Committee would go about addressing the full range of policy areas before it. The Chairman raised the possibility of setting aside a full day for in- depth discussions.

4.3 The Chairman also reminded Members that the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel (CPC) would be providing drafting support and the views of the Tobago Forum of Political Parties would be considered.

CONSIDERATION OF THE BILL AND DISCUSSION TABLE

5.2 Representatives of the CPC joined the meeting.

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5.1 The Chairman indicated that it would be useful to prioritize the discussion of the policy areas by addressing the ones with the most stakeholder comments first.

5.3 The Chairman reiterated the importance of the fact that the Bill emanated from and reflects the concerns and wishes of stakeholders in Tobago.

5.4 There was consensus that the consideration of the Bill (clauses and policy) should begin with Clause 9 (Division of Powers)

5.5 Discussions ensued.

5.6 The Chairman took Members through the proposal in clause 9 of the Bill, stakeholders’ comments and the options available for the Committee’s consideration based on available research.

5.7 The Committee considered the following models: St. Kitts and Nevis; South Africa; Germany; and Tanzania

5.7 A number of points emanated from the discussion – a) The overall objective is the maintenance of the unitary State of Trinidad and Tobago; a federation is not being proposed; b) A large number of areas of national concern do not appear in Schedule 4 of the Bill. Instead the Bill appears to suggest that the law making responsibility of the national Parliament in regard to Tobago should be restricted to only the specific list of matters in Schedule 4. However, there was need for clarity; c) In order to avoid confusion, there should not be concurrent powers; that is, law making powers exercisable by national Parliament as well the Tobago Legislature, in relation to issues affecting Tobago; d) All the models under reference provided for the exercise of concurrent powers with the exception of Tanzania which does not recognize concurrent powers and, as a result, no real conflict between national law (Tanzanian) and autonomous region (Zanzibari) law is possible; e) There was consensus that the Tanzanian model appears the best solution for the Division of Powers and that -

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a thorough and valid list of national law making powers exercisable by national Parliament should be determined;

a law enacted by the national Parliament that falls clearly within the jurisdiction of the Tobago Legislature will be null and void; the legislation should provide that in the event of areas of uncertain jurisdiction, any query as to whether the national Parliament has jurisdiction would resolved by the President through the act of Assent (the office that is common to both the national Parliament and the Tobago Legislature).7

f) Tobago laws should apply geographically to citizens who are resident in Tobago and not to Tobagonians regardless of whether they are in Tobago or Trinidad.

6.1 At the end of the discussions, the CPC officials were requested to propose amendments to clause 9 as follows:

a) the Fourth Schedule should be replaced by a valid and comprehensive list of national issues falling under the jurisdiction of the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago;

b) any matter not on this revised Fourth Schedule will be the responsibility of the Tobago Legislature;

c) a law enacted by the Parliament of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago that falls within the jurisdiction of the Tobago Legislature will be null and void;

in the event of areas of uncertain jurisdiction, any query as to whether the national Parliament has jurisdiction would resolved by the President through the act of Assent (the office that is common to both the national Parliament and the Tobago Legislature).

6.2 The CPC officials were also requested to recommend a possible amendment to the Bill to insert a mechanism for the resolution of disputes given that many stakeholders commented on its absence.

7 Similar to the way such conflict is resolved in St. Kitts and Nevis

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6.3 The Committee agreed that at the next meeting Members will consider the clauses related to - a. The Tobago Legislature; b. The Tobago Civil Service & Tobago Service Commission; and c. Financial Provisions.

6.4 The Committee agreed to next meet on Monday November 25th at 3:00 pm.

ADJOURNMENT

6.1 The meeting was adjourned.

6.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

6.3 The adjournment was taken at 5:46 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary November 18, 2019

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MONDAY NOVEMBER 25, 2019 AT 3:33 P.M.

PRESENT Committee Members Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member

Law Reform Commission of Trinidad and Tobago Mr. Samraj Harripaul, SC Chairman

Chief Parliamentary Counsel Mrs. Stacy-Lee Daniell Parliamentary Counsel I

PS Secretariat - Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs Ms. Janelle Smith Legal Officer II Mr. Javed Sajad Legal Counsel I

ABSENT / EXCUSED Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

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Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN FOR THE DAY

1.1 The Assistant Secretary announced that in the absence of the Chairman, the Committee is required to elect a Chairman for the day, in accordance with Standing Orders 112(4) of the House of Representatives and 102(4) of the Senate.

1.2 The Assistant Secretary invited nominations for the post of Chairman for the day. Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds was nominated on a motion moved by Mr. Nigel De Freitas and seconded by Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy.

1.3 There being no further nominations, the Assistant Secretary declared Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds the duly elected Chairman for the day.

1.4 Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds took the chair and called the meeting to order at 3:33 p.m. and welcomed all present.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds informed Members that Mrs. Robinson-Regis, Mr. Indarsingh, Mr. Deyalsingh, Ms. Ramdial, Mr. Rambharat, Dr. Deyalsingh, and Mr. Hosein had requested to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Second Meeting held on November 18, 2019.

3.2 The Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Dr. Dillon-Remy and seconded by Mr. De Freitas.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

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Paragraph 6.2

4.1 The CPC prepared a lengthened list of Schedule 4 Matters over which the Central Government should retain exclusive lawmaking powers. The list was lengthened in accordance with the listing of the Union Matters used in the Tanzanian Constitution in relation to their autonomous region, Zanzibar.

4.2 The CPC prepared an alternative to Clause 9.

4.3 The CPC prepared a proposal for a Dispute Resolution Mechanism after using the Nevis Model as a reference.

4.4 The requested information from the CPC was circulated to Members and uploaded to the Committee’s Parlcloud.

(Technocrats joined the meeting)

CONSIDERATION OF THE BILL AND DISCUSSION TABLE

5.1 The Chairman for the day referred Members to the broad policy areas yet to be discussed and proposed the Committee focus on the financial provisions of the Bill.

5.2 There was agreement.

5.3 Discussions ensued.

5.4 The Chairman for the day led the discussions drawing reference to the Discussion Table, which listed the financial provisions of the Bill, the policy position of the Tobago Forum, stakeholders’ comments and the options available for the Committee’s consideration based on available research.

5.5 Deliberations centred on the following issues – i. The proposal for the allocation to Tobago in any financial year no less than 8% of the total sum appropriated by Parliament; ii. If a percentage of the proposed 8% of appropriation is to compensate for the shortfall in development works over the last 19 years, what happens when the shortfall has been resolved?

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iii. Whether the 8% allocation should be disaggregated. For example, 5% for recurrent expenditure and 3% for development programmes; iv. The options for revenue sharing between Central Government and the Tobago Island Government; v. The power of the Tobago Island Government to borrow as proposed in the Bill and the law pertaining to External Loans which places limits on Central Government borrowing; vi. The implications for the Tobago Island Government being given the power to borrow as it deems fit; vii. The proposed Fiscal Revenue Commission and its role and functions as envisaged in the Bill.

5.6 After lengthy discussions, the following decisions were made: i. Given that the Bill proposes a minimum sum of 8%, there was no requirement for a Fiscal Review Commission (FRC) as proposed in the Bill; ii. The Minister of Finance should have the power to place limits on all power of the Tobago Island Government to borrow as proposed in the Bill; iii. The revenues attributed to Tobago should be offset against the 8% allocation of appropriation.

5.7 There was agreement that officials from the Ministry of Finance and Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago should be invited to the next meeting the Committee to assist the Committee with its further deliberations on proposals for; i. a minimum allocation of 8% to Tobago; ii. revenue sharing between Central Government and the Tobago Island Government; iii. the power of the Tobago Island Government to borrow internationally; and iv. the establishment of the Tobago Fund. 5.8 The Committee agreed to next meet on Thursday December 5th at 3:00 pm.

ADJOURNMENT

6.1 The meeting was adjourned.

6.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

6.3 The adjournment was taken at 6:30 p.m.

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I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary November 28, 2019

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MINUTES OF THE 4TH MEETING OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018

HELD IN THE ANR ROBINSON (EAST) ROOM, LEVEL 9, OFFICE OF THE PARLIAMENT, TOWER D, 1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN THURSDAY DECEMBER 5, 2019 AT 3:11 P.M.

PRESENT Committee Members Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

Chief Parliamentary Counsel Mr. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel Ms. Carla Ali Legal Counsel II Mr. Carl Esdelle Legal Research Officer

Ministry of Finance Ms. Suzette Lee Chee Permanent Secretary,

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Economic Management Division Ms. Sumattee Baldeo Financial Analyst, Economic Management Division Ms. Eleanor Alleyne Deputy Director (Ag.), Budgets Division Mrs. Michelle Durham- Kissoon Permanent Secretary, Investments Division Mr. Keith Huggins Deputy Comptroller of Customs and Excise (Ag.), Customs and Excise Division Ms. Vidiyah Marcial Deputy Comptroller of Customs and Excise (Ag.), Customs and Excise Division Ms. Naleisha Balley Director, Treasury Division

Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago Ms. Tricia Harewood Senior Economist Ms. Giselle Samuel Senior Legal Counsel

ABSENT / EXCUSED Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

INTRODUCTION

1.3 The Chairman called the meeting to order at 3:11 p.m. and welcomed all present.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman informed Members that Mssrs. Deyalsingh requested to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Third Meeting held on November 25, 2019.

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3.2 The Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. De Freitas and seconded by Dr. Dillon-Remy.

PRE-HEARING DISCUSSION

4.1 Members reviewed the policy areas and policy options considered by the Committee at the previous meeting.

(Technocrats joined the meeting)

CONSIDERATION OF THE BILL AND DISCUSSION TABLE

5.1 The Chairman referred Members to the discussion table and proposed that the Committee focus on the financial provisions of the Bill (Clause 18 [proposed sections 141 AD, 141 AE, 141 AF, 141 AJ and 141 AK of the Constitution]).

5.2 The Chairman led the discussions by referencing the financial provisions of the Bill, stakeholders’ comments and the options available for the Committee’s consideration based on available research. The Chairman also invited comments from the representatives of the Ministry of Finance, the Customs and Excise Division, the Central Bank of Trinidad and Tobago and the Office of the Chief Parliamentary Counsel.

5.3 Discussions ensued.

5.4 A number of points and suggestions emanated from the discussions –

viii. The formula for determining Tobago’s minimum allocation needed to be clearly reasoned; ix. Also required is a rational determination, supported by research, that Tobago lags behind Trinidad in terms of development, in order to give validity to the 3% within the proposed 8% minimum allocation meant to compensate for sustained shortfalls in Tobago’s development since 2000; x. Clarification is also needed concerning how unspent balances are used within the context of the Tobago House of Assembly Act; xi. There was a lack of consensus among the technocrats concerning the types of taxes collected in Tobago; xii. There is an irrefutable risk to central governments as a result of subnational authorities’ international borrowing. Therefore, there must be careful

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consideration of the proposal that Tobago should be able to engage in international borrowing. There was a suggestion that perhaps any such borrowing by Tobago should be limited to multilateral agencies; xiii. The discussions at hand necessitated the participation of a contributor with expertise in matters pertaining to the functioning of the Tobago House of Assembly and detailed knowledge of the Tobago House of Assembly Act; xiv. The committee should engage an expert in fiscal federalism to assist in deliberations going forward and to prepare proposals for amendments taking into account the provisions in the Bill, stakeholders’ comments, the Committee’s suggestions and experiences from jurisdictions with similar autonomous regions; xv. In the absence of comprehensive Tobago-related records, which would be instrumental in understanding the prevailing practice concerning Tobago matters, there is no standardized manner in which issues are managed; xvi. In light of the foregoing, the Committee should seek an extension of the December 31, 2019 deadline for the final report on its work, further to its Terms of Reference.

5.5 At the end of the discussions, the Committee agreed, that at its next meeting the relevant officials from the following agencies should be invited to assist the Committee: i. Tobago House of Assembly; ii. Ministry of Finance - Inland Revenue Division; iii. Auditor General’s Department; and iv. Central Administrative Services Tobago.

5.6 It was also agreed that at its next meeting, in addition to completing its consideration of the financial provisions, the Committee would discuss the following policy issues in the Bill: i. The Tobago Legislature; ii. Tobago Civil Service and Tobago Service Commission; and iii. The Structure of the Bill.

5.7 The Committee noted that in the last session, the former Committee had received the assistance of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) at the outset of its work and agreed to the engagement of the services of an expert through the UNDP to conduct a detailed clause by clause examination of the Bill and make relevant suggestions.

5.8 The Committee agreed to next meet on Thursday December 12th at 1:30 pm.

ADJOURNMENT

6.1 The meeting was adjourned.

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6.2 The Chairman thanked Members for attending.

6.3 The adjournment was taken at 4:54 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary December 10, 2019

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UNOFFICIAL MINUTES OF THE 5TH MEETING

OF THE

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018 HELD IN THE COMMITTEE ROOM, GROUND FLOOR, CABILDO BUILDING, PARLIAMENTARY COMPLEX, ST. VINCENT STREET, PORT-OF-SPAIN WEDNESDAY JANUARY 29 , 2020 AT 10:09 A.M.

PRESENT Committee Members Mr. Nigel De Freitas Member and Chairman for the Day Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Foster Cummings Member Mr. Rudranath Indarsingh, MP Member Mr. Clarence Rambharat Member Ms. Ramona Ramdial, MP Member

Chief Parliamentary Counsel Mr. Jonetta Jeet Ramsahai Assistant Chief Parliamentary Counsel

ABSENT / EXCUSED Mrs. Camille Robinson-Regis, MP Chairman Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Member Mr. Saddam Hosein Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Dr. Varma Deyalsingh Member

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ELECTION OF A CHAIRMAN FOR THE DAY

1.1 The Assistant Secretary accounted that in the absence of the Chairman, the Committee is required to elect a Chairman for the day in accordance with Standing Orders 112(4) of the House of Representatives and 102(4) of the Senate.

1.2 The Assistant Secretary invited nominations for the post of Chairman for the day. Mr. Nigel De Freitas was nominated on a motion moved by Mr. Fitzgerald Hinds and seconded by Ms. Ramona Ramdial.

1.3 There being no further nominations, the Assistant Secretary declared Mr. De Freitas the duly elected Chairman for the day.

1.4 Mr. De Freitas took the chair and called the Meeting to order at 10:09 a.m.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

2.1 The Chairman for the day welcomed Members present and informed them that Mrs. Robinson-Regis, Dr Dillon-Remy, Mr. Hosein and Mssrs. Deyalsingh requested to be excused from the meeting.

CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES

3.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of the Fourth Meeting held on December 5, 2019.

3.2 There being no corrections or omissions, the Minutes were confirmed on a motion moved by Mr. Hinds and seconded by Mr. Cummings.

MATTERS ARISING FROM THE MINUTES

4.1 With reference to Paragraph 5.7, the Chairman for the day reminded Members that the Committee agreed to the engagement of the services of an expert through the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) to conduct detailed clause by clause examinations of the Bill.

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The Chairman for the day indicated that the following UNDP consultants would provide their findings, and make suggestions to the Committee at the Meeting:  Professor Nico Steytler; and  Mr. Jason Gluck.

PRE-HEARING DISCUSSION

5.1 Members reviewed the objectives of the discussion with the Consultants.

(Consultants and Technocrat joined the meeting) PRESENTATION BY CONSULTANTS

6.1 Professor Steytler and Mr. Gluck made their presentation, which addressed, inter alia:

i. Division of powers and functions: whether or not to define a Tobago Island Government (TIG) list of powers, equality of outcomes and the clarification of service provision by the Trinidad and Tobago Government (TTG) and the TIG; ii. Tobago Civil Service, including arguments for and against a distinct Tobago Service Commission; iii. Funding of the TIG: the raising and retention of taxation by the TIG, equalization funding as well as grants from the TTG and decision-making by the Fiscal Review Commission; iv. Dispute resolution mechanisms: the possible sources of disputes and their resolution through the Courts or by presidential assent, cooperation, consultation and dispute avoidance; v. Tobago legislature: unicameralism vs bicameralism, the scope for a more proportional electoral system in Tobago; and vi. Constitutional mode of expressing Tobago autonomy: Clauses 141A – 141AN of the Bill and whether to entrench Tobago’s autonomy in the Constitution.

6.2 During the presentation, the Consultants invited Members to raise any questions they may have about the issues as they were being addressed. The following issues were raised:

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iv. Powers not mentioned in the lists of TTG and TIG powers: family law, personal law, social services, health, housing, water and energy supply; and v. The formula for the calculation of Tobago’s allocation in the national budget.

6.3 The Committee agreed that it was necessary to host a public forum in Tobago with Professor Steytler and Mr. Gluck, preferably in person.

OTHER BUSINESS

7.1 Due to the lack of a quorum for the afternoon portion of the Meeting, the Committee agreed to cancel that part of the day’s proceedings.

ADJOURNMENT

8.1 The meeting was adjourned to a date to be determined.

8.2 The Chairman for the day thanked Members for attending.

8.3 The adjournment was taken at 12:44 p.m.

I certify that the Minutes are true and correct.

Chairman

Secretary January 29, 2020

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Appendix IV – Summary of UNDP Experts’ Recommendations

SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS / OBSERVATIONS REPORT TO JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO CONSIDER AND REPORT ON THE CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) (TOBAGO SELF-GOVERNMENT) BILL, 2018

ISSUE RECOMMENDATION / OBSERVATION A. Purpose and nature of All the substantive provisions of the Amendment Bill should give effect to an Tobago’s autonomy overarching set of objects and values. status The experts suggest that the JSC might consider adding language to the Amendment Bill that captures these principles and understandings (underlying Tobago Autonomy), either in an opening section of chapter 11A or as a chapter preamble. B. Definition of Tobago The precise jurisdiction of the Tobago Island Government (TIG) still needs to be defined; namely whether, and if so where, TIG will have a maritime jurisdiction. The experts believe this to be important to clarify as it will define the scope of TIG powers over fisheries, for example. C. Autonomy Structures: Tobago legislature C.1 Whether the Tobago Bicameralism […] increases the cost of running the legislature and adds time to the Legislature should be legislative process. It is not clear to the experts whether the constituencies bicameral or unicameral envisioned to be represented in the People’s House are essential for democratic legitimacy in Tobago and hence warrant the additional cost and time of bicameralism. C.2 The degree to which On the question of the amount of detail that needs to go into the constitution, the the functioning of the experts would note that the Amendment Bill contains a great amount of detail, some Tobago Legislature of which could be removed – but none of which is unknown in other constitutions. should be How much detail to put in the Amendment Bill, therefore, is less a matter of constitutionalized or comparative good practice and more of a question of how much certainty and rigidity dealt with outside the the parties want in these arrangements versus how much flexibility/ease to change Constitution them when it comes to the internal arrangements of the THA. C.3 Special constitutional The experts would encourage the JSC to explore protection of Tobago’s a. the extent to which Tobagonians need protection against unilateral autonomy status constitutional change (as it relates to their autonomy); and b. options to provide those protections to Tobagonians, if deemed necessary. D. Division of Powers and Functions between Trinidad and Tobago Government (TTG) and Tobago Island Government (TIG): Legislative D.2 Expanded list of Challenge of adopting the Tanzania model: exclusive TTG powers - the enormous increase in governance responsibilities that will transfer to the TIG […] could result in the short and medium term in a deterioration in national governance and/or a disruption of essential services in Tobago. - consider if matters that are usually central government functions are inadvertently left off the Schedule 4 list of exclusive TTG powers. […] The TTG would not be able to set […] standards across the nation. […] Exercise of these powers at the regional level could adversely affect the nation as a whole.

In following the Tanzanian model, the JSC might consider whether any additional matters should be added to the exclusive TTG list in order to maximize effective

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governance. Examples from the exclusive list in the Tanzanian as well as other relevant constitutions

- National security: emergency powers; - Finances: coinage and currency, banks, foreign exchange and exchange control, income tax, customs and excise duties, VAT, external borrowing and trade, mineral and oil resources (with sharing arrangement); - Economic activities (infrastructure): international harbours, air transport, posts and telecommunications, industrial licensing, energy policy and regulation, including nuclear energy. - Social services: Higher Education, norms and standards in education (In the Tanzanian Constitution this matter is addressed by listing “the National Examinations Council of Tanzania and all matters connected with the functions of that Council” on the list of Union (centre) powers); - Governance: statistics [for planning and comparative purposes), research; - Political processes: Registration of political parties and other matters related to political parties.

Also: In compliance with Trinidad and Tobago’s international obligations and commitments, the TTG should have those powers necessary to comply with any obligations and commitments under international law even if those powers fall within Tobago’s fields of jurisdiction. D.4 Allowing for flexibility Having some flexibility in the allocation of power between TTG and TIG could be by providing for beneficial in maximizing the efficient and effective delivery of essential services in delegation of powers Tobago. - E.g.: a mechanism whereby the TTG and TIG could delegate responsibility for exercising powers between the two governments by mutual agreement. D.5 Transitional To ensure an effective and smooth transition to the new autonomy arrangement, arrangements careful attention would need to be paid to transitional arrangements. For example, provisions would have to made for the assignment to the TIG of the administration of relevant national laws, until they are replaced by Tobago laws. E. Administration: the - the Tobago Civil Service could operate within the regulatory framework civil service developed by the Civil Service Commission. There should be no need to create a new Tobago Civil Service Commission if a division or chamber of the Civil Service Commission is created within the existing Civil Service Commission, and the majority of the members within the Tobago division were nominated by the TIG for appointment by the President. The size of the chamber need not be more than three commissioners, two of whom coming from Tobago. - the JSC might also consider having one Tobagonian on the Civil Service Commission (and not just the Tobago division/chamber), which would also promote the national character of the Commission. - the Tobago chamber of the Civil Service Commission would sit in Tobago with a permanent secretariat. - the same principles and structures could apply to the Teaching Service Commission and the Police Service Commission. F. Intergovernmental fiscal relations F.2 TIG’s entitlement to The TIG would be entitled to the national taxes collected by the Inland Revenue national taxes collected Division from Tobagonians. The effect is that the TIG would have an entitlement to

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by Inland Revenue all tax sources based on Tobago. Division from The raises the concern that no part of this revenue goes to the TTG for national Tobagonians services delivered on Tobago or from which Tobagonians benefit, for example – immigration services, aviation, foreign affairs, national security, etc. This concern comes to the fore only when the TIG’s financial resources (as captured by own revenue and national revenue raised on Tobago) exceed their financial needs (the money needed to execute TIG’s governance responsibilities). In the short to medium term that is not likely to happen. G. Fiscal Review Commission (FRC) G.1 Advisory powers Although the FRC does not make a final binding determination about what the TIG’s fair share of the national budget should be, one might hope and expect its advice would be seen as ‘politically’ binding because of the high esteem of the Commission and the quality of its advice. This is the status of the successive Indian Finance Commissions. Where Parliament does not follow the FRC’s advice, it must provide reasons for not doing so. G.2 FRC’s independence, The experts would suggest the JSC consider the following principles in designing the impartiality and expertise role of the FRC (with adjustments to meet the Trinidad and Tobago context):

• As the very basis of the FRC is to give expert (fact based) advice, commissioners should have significant expertise in the key disciplines pertinent to its mission: finances, economics, and law. • The FRC is an intergovernmental institution, ‘belonging’ neither to the TTG nor the TIG, but to both. As with other commissions, the appointment is made by the President on the advice of the two legislatures involved – Parliament and the THA:

o Two commissioners are nominated by Parliament (but although so nominated, they do not act as delegates of Parliament); o Two commissioners are nominated by the THA (but although so nominated, they do not act as delegates of THA); and o The Chairperson is appointed by the President on advice of the Prime Minister and the Chief Secretary.

The FRC is an impartial body whose legitimacy would ultimately depend on the quality of its findings and recommendations. G.3 Principles guiding In giving effect to the overall goal of determining the funds the TIG needs to decision-making provide equal services and equalised development, the experts suggest that the FRC be guided by a number of factors, including:

• The range of services delivered, and the costs attendant thereto (populations size, etc); • The extent of underdevelopment and cost of remedying development backlogs; • Own tax revenue, and the extent of TIG’s tax effort (incentivise tax collection); • The revenue received from personal and income tax and other taxes collected on Tobago by the Inland Revenue Division; • Establishment costs of the TIG.

In considering these factors, the FRC would then make a determination on (a) what the funding gap is; and (b) how it should be remedied by the allocation of

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a fair share of the revenue raised nationally. This amount could be less or more than 8%.

It is the experts’ understanding that this principled and fact-based approach to sharing revenue raised nationally has been accepted by the JSC and Tobago Forum. First, it is accepted that any revenue accruing to the TIG from taxes raised nationally on Tobagonians must be subtracted from the TIG’s fair share. Second, it noted in a communication of 25 March 2019 to the JSC, that, with reference to the role of FRC in recommending the size of the allocation, its decisions would ultimately ‘obviate the need for the 8% allocation to Tobago’. G.4 Transitional The implementation of this process of sharing revenue raised nationally will take provisions time. An Act of Parliament must be passed to set up the FRC and set out its operational framework. Until such time it is operative, the experts believe the proposed 8% could be implemented with the proviso that other sources of revenue are subtracted from that amount. One could envision, for example, a constitutional requirement that the FRC be established within two years of the adoption of the Amendment Bill, with an additional year to set up the framework for the division of revenue. I. Intergovernmental Dispute Resolution The experts believe an effective dispute resolution mechanism for Trinidad and Tobago would include the following: - clarity on how formal disputes are ultimately resolved – in this case through the courts; - alternative dispute resolution mechanisms to try and resolve disputes before the reach the courts; and - mechanisms to avoid disputes in the first place. I.1 Formal dispute The Chief Parliamentary Counsel (CPC) proposed the following language: resolution: the courts ‘The High Court shall, to the exclusion of any other court of law, have original jurisdiction in any dispute between the Tobago Island Government and the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, if and in so far as the dispute involves any question whether of law or fact on which the existence or extent of a legal right depends.’ This approach, vesting in the High Court exclusive original jurisdiction, is the most common approach among Commonwealth countries. The experts would note, however, the prudence of adding an automatic right of appeal to the Court of Appeals: matters of this importance should be guaranteed an appeal to the highest court. I.1.1 Judicial The experts do not have a view on how Tobagonians may perceive the courts in the independence and context of their autonomy status. The experts would merely advise the JSC to legitimacy consider how effective the courts can be given their public perception for independence and neutrality.

In other federations or countries with autonomous regions different strategies have been adopted to advance the highest court’s legitimacy. First, in some the region has a role in selecting judges. For example: • In Canada, one-third of the members of the Supreme Court must be appointed from Quebec. • Four members of the Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina are selected by the House of Representatives of the Federation, and two members by the Assembly of Republika Srpska (Serbs)

The experts would note, however, that the proportional size of the sub-national units

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in these cases is substantially larger than Tobago: Quebec is approximately 22% of the population of Canada and the Republika of Srpska is just approximately 33% of the total population of Bosnia Herzegovina. Furthermore, such an approach in Trinidad and Tobago has severe disadvantages, as it risks transforming the appearance (if not actuality) of judges from neutral and unbiased to a situation where the perception is that there are “Trinidadian judges” and “Tobagonian judges,” which could polarize society and undermine the reputation of the courts. A second approach is to constitutionalize the right of the TIG to nominate one member for the President to appoint to the Judicial and Legal Services Commission (JLSC). This would give Tobago a role in selecting all judges without any judge being labelled the “Tobagonian judge.” Tobagonian participation on the JLSC, along with a constitutional principle to give “fair representation” to Tobago in national bodies (discussed in greater detail below), would not only promote diversity in the courts but also strengthen the notion of “shared rule” in national affairs (also discussed in greater detail below). A lesser version of this principle could require the JLSC to consult with the chief Tobagonian legal officer before making some or all judicial appointments.

From these two options, the JSC might consider having the THA nominate one person for appointment by the President to the JLSC. Whichever approach is adopted, the experts believe judicial training on the implications of autonomy for constitutional jurisprudence would be beneficial. I.2 Formal dispute For Trinidad and Tobago, the experts would suggest the JSC consider the following: resolution: The President’s Act of Assent • The President of Trinidad and Tobago be given the powers to withhold assent to Bills emanating from either Parliament or the THA if he or she has reservations about their constitutionality. • It may specifically be provided for that both Parliament and the THA may make a submission to the President when the President considers the Bill of the other legislature. • The legislatures’ power to call for an abstract review of a law assented to could be provided for. • The exercise of the above constitutional review powers should be done by the Court of Appeal. I.3 Alternative dispute During the January 29th meeting, the JSC expressed strong support for a mechanism resolution in the constitution similar to that of Section 41(2) and (3) of the South African constitution, which requires an Act of Parliament to ‘(a) establish or provide for structures and institutions to promote and facilitate intergovernmental relations; and (b) provide for appropriate mechanisms and procedures to facilitate settlement of intergovernmental disputes.’

The experts feel that such a mechanism could be useful in an autonomous arrangement for Tobago, as it would provide a forum for less adversarial dispute resolution, instead of the winner/loser outcome that often results from going to the courts. I.4 Inter-governmental The experts note the JSC’s interest in the South African constitution, which seeks to communication and achieve these goals by emphasizing the twin obligations of all governments to consultation promote the good of the country as a whole and to respect the autonomy of subnational units and requiring, in section 41, reasonable effort, exhausting all other remedies before approaching a court to resolve a dispute.”

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J. Central Institutions and principles and processes of Shared Rule J.2 Dedicated The experts do not have a view on where exactly shared rule should be utilized in intergovernmental Trinidad and Tobago. Some of the mechanisms mentioned above might not be relations structures and appropriate for a country with one autonomous region that encompasses five procedures percent of the national population.

Furthermore, the experts note that some mechanisms for shared rule are already proposed to be utilized in the draft amendment bill (e.g., the Fiscal Review Commission).

The draft amendment Bill also contains important mechanisms to promote intergovernmental consultation. For example, as noted above, the Chief Secretary may be invited to attend Cabinet meetings. In addition, the Prime-Minister and the Chief Secretary are to meet quarterly to formulate “administrative and legislative mechanisms for the promotion of harmony in the affairs of Trinidad and Tobago” (clause75C (2)). And the President is to act on the advice of the Tobago Executive Council with respect to matters in Tobago (Clause 13(1)(b) amending Article 80). Similarly, the Chief Secretary is to keep the President informed on matters related to Tobago (Clause 14).

The experts would encourage the JSC to scrutinize existing institutions and new ones proposed by the draft amendment Bill to ascertain where Tobagonians might be included in institutions of national governance.

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