THE SECOND REPORT ON AN INQUIRY INTO REGIONAL INTEGRATION AND THE STRENGTHENING OF THE CARICOM INSTITUTION
FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH PARLIAMENT
Committee Mandate The Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs is established by Standing Orders 105 and 95 of the House of Representatives and Senate respectfully and is mandated to consider from time to time and report whenever necessary on: (a) all matters relating to the foreign policy of the Government (including missions abroad) and examining the implications and likely effect on Trinidad and Tobago; (b) International treaties and agreements entered into by the Government on behalf of the State and advising the Parliament of their likely impact on Trinidad and Tobago; and (c) other matters relating to Foreign Affairs as may be referred to it by the House.
Committee Membership Ms. Marlene Mc Donald, MP Chairman Ms. Paula Gopee-Scoon Vice-Chairman Mr. Avinash Singh Member Ms. Anita Haynes Member Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Mr. Rodney Charles, MP Member Dr. Maria Dillon- Remy1 Member
Secretariat Support Mrs. Angelique Massiah Secretary Ms. Kimberly Mitchell Assistant Secretary Ms. Katharina Gokool Graduate Research Assistant
Publication An electronic copy of this report can be found on the Parliament website using the following link: http://www.ttparliament.org/committee_business.php?mid=19&id=237&pid=28
Contact Information All correspondence should be addressed to:
The Secretary Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs Office of the Parliament Levels G-7, Tower D The Port of Spain International Waterfront Centre 1A Wrightson Road Port of Spain Republic of Trinidad and Tobago Tel: (868) 624-7275 Ext 2288; 2317 Fax: (868) 625-4672 Email: [email protected]
Date Presented in HOR: December 17, 2018 Date Presented in Senate: December 18, 2018
1 Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy was appointed to the Committee in lieu of Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir with effect from November 27, 2018.
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE ...... 4 ABBREVIATIONS ...... 5 LIST OF TABLES ...... 7 1. EXECUTIVE SUMMARY ...... 8 2. SUMMARY OF RECOMMENDATIONS ...... 10 3. THE COMMITTEE ...... 12
ESTABLISHMENT AND MANDATE ...... 12 POWERS ...... 12 CHAIRMANSHIP ...... 13 MEETINGS ...... 13 4. WORK OF THE COMMITTEE ...... 14 5. INTRODUCTION ...... 15 6. KEY ISSUES, FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS ...... 17
I. CARICOM’S EFFORTS TO ENCOURAGE REGIONAL INTEGRATION ...... 17 II. WHETHER REGIONAL INTEGRATION CAN FEASIBLY OCCUR, WITH A PARTICULAR FOCUS ON ANY SUCCESSES THUS FAR, AND ANY CHALLENGES ..... 22 III. TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO’S STANCE ON REGIONAL INTEGRATION ...... 26 IV. CURRENT POLICIES THAT FACILITATE REGIONAL INTEGRATION ...... 37 V. EFFICIENCY AND CAPACITY OF CARICOM ...... 40 VI. CARICOM’S PLANS AND STRATEGIES FOR STRENGTHENING ITS ORGANS AND THE INSTITUTION AS A WHOLE ...... 46 VII. CHALLENGES, SUCCESSES AND OPPORTUNITIES OF CARICOM ...... 48 VIII. THE EXTENT TO WHICH CARICOM HAS IMPLEMENTED ANY RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE SUCCESSES OF SUCH RECOMMENDATIONS ...... 53 APPENDICES ...... 56 APPENDIX I ...... 57 MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS ...... 57 APPENDIX II ...... 71 VERBATIM NOTES ...... 71 APPENDIX III ...... 113 ENTITIES ATTENDANCE RECORD ...... 113 APPENDIX IV ...... 116 RECENT CONFERENCES/SEMINARS ON INTEGRATION...... 116 APPENDIX V ...... 119 TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO’S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CDF ...... 119 APPENDIX VI ...... 121 TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO’S AGRICULTURAL EXPORTS TO CARICOM MARKETS ...... 121
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MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE
Ms. Marlene McDonald, MP Chairman
Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Mr. Rodney Charles, MP Vice-Chairman Member Member
2 Ms. Anita Haynes Mrs. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Member Member
Mr. Avinash Singh
Member
2 Ms. Anita Haynes in lieu of Mr. Rodger Samuel w.e.f. November 28, 2017
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ABBREVIATIONS
ACP African Caribbean Pacific CAHFSA Caribbean Agricultural Health and Food Safety Agency CAJO Caribbean Association of Judicial Officers CARICOM Caribbean Community CCJ Caribbean Court of Justice CDEMA Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency CDF Caribbean Development Fund CICC Chiefs of Immigration and Comptrollers of Customs and Excise CIP Citizenship by Investment Programme CONSLE Council for Ministers with responsibility for national security and law enforcement COTED Council for Trade and Economic Development CSMC CARICOM Security Management Committee CSME CARICOM Single Market and Economy CTS CARICOM Trade Support Programme CXC Caribbean Examination Council FDI Foreign Direct Investments FTAA Free Trade Area of the Americas GAP Good Agricultural Practices GMP Good Manufacturing Practices IIR Institute of International Relations IMPACS Implementation Agency for Crime and Security LIAT Leeward Islands Air Transport MALF Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries MoAGLA Ministry of Attorney General and Legal Affairs MoFCA Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs MoH Ministry of Health MoNS Ministry of National Security MoPD Ministry of Planning and Development MoTI Ministry of Trade and Industry MOU Memorandum of Understanding
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NAMDEVCO National Marketing Development Company NCDA National Council for Drug Abuse NCSRC The National Coastal Surveillance Radar Centre OECS Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States OPV Offshore Patrol Vessel RTC Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas SALISES Sir Arthur Lewis Institute of Social and Economic Studies TTCG Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard TTPS Trinidad and Tobago Police Service UK United Kingdom UNSCR United Nations Security Council Resolution USA United States of America UWI University of the West Indies
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LIST OF TABLES
Table no. Details Page no. 1 Trinidad and Tobago’s Balance of Trade with CARICOM (Agriculture including Fish, 29 Meat and Meat Products, $TT) 2 Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Production and Export, 2011-2016 (Kg.) 30 3. Quantity of Agricultural Imports Relative to Quantity of Domestic Agricultural 32 Production by Percentage (2011-2016)
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1. Executive Summary
1.1. At the Committee’s twelfth meeting held on May 03, 2017, it was agreed that an examination into Regional Integration and the Strengthening of the CARICOM Institution would take place in public.
1.2. At its thirteenth meeting, held on June 07, 2017, the Committee engaged technocrats from the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs, on matters relating to the Regional Integration and the Strengthening of the CARICOM Institution.
1.3. The Committee also engaged technocrats from the Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries, Ministry of National Security and the Ministry of Trade and Industry at its fourteenth meeting which was held in public on January 24, 2018:
1.4. The inquiry was based on the following objectives: 1. to investigate CARICOM’s efforts to encourage regional integration; 2. to assess whether regional integration can feasibly occur, with a particular focus on any successes thus far and any challenges; 3. to assess Trinidad and Tobago’s stance on regional integration; 4. to understand the current policies that facilitate regional integration; 5. to examine the efficiency and capacity of CARICOM; 6. to determine CARICOM’s plans and strategies for strengthening its organs and the institution as a whole; 7. to determine the challenges, successes and opportunities of CARICOM; and 8. to determine the extent to which CARICOM has implemented any recommendations and the successes of such recommendations, if any.
3.5 Evidence was acquired through oral presentations and written submissions from the following stakeholders: The Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs; The Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries; The Ministry of National Security;
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The Ministry of Trade and Industry; Institute of International Relations; The Ministry of Finance; and The Ministry of Planning and Development.
3.6 Some of the major issues that were discussed in the examination of this report were: The lack of awareness among citizens of Member States about CARICOM; The MoFCA’s efforts to raise the public’s awareness; The MoFCA’s role in fostering the “Spirit of the Community”; Competition amongst countries; The need to strengthen the Caribbean identity; Adjustments made by Trinidad and Tobago towards Regional Integration; Trinidad and Tobago’s negative balance of Trade in CARICOM; Trinidad and Tobago’s difficulties in implementing measures to deepen and facilitate Regional Integration; Challenges with harmonising regional policies; CARICOM’s diminished competitive edge; Regional Security initiatives to treat with the drug issue; Opportunities for trade of animals and animal products among CARICOM members; The implications of extra-regional partners joining CARICOM; Challenges with facilitating regional security; Challenges with Regional Trade; and Challenges with the freedom of movement in Caribbean.
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2. Summary of Recommendations
2.1. The following is a summary of recommendations that were proffered by the Committee:
I. CARICOM’s efforts to encourage regional integration i. The MoFCA as the Ministry responsible for CARICOM Affairs should be the advocate for regionalism and “spread the good news to the people of Trinidad and Tobago”. Annual outreach programmes at convenient and strategic locations such as popular malls and expositions can assist in this regard. ii. The MoFCA furthers the “Spirit of the Community” by revising its annual public awareness programmes so that all communities in Trinidad and Tobago are reached. iii. The MoFCA also implements annual outreach programmes and activities in primary and secondary schools by expanding its outreach curriculum to include the importance of regional integration, its benefits and drawbacks, the significance of the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ), the importance of having a Caribbean Identity and the public’s role in facilitating the Caribbean Identity.
II. Whether regional integration can feasibly occur, with a particular focus on any successes thus far and any challenges i. Trinidad and Tobago continue to pursue arrangements that can improve integration amongst Member States in the areas of student exchange programmes and immigration arrangements. ii. The MoFCA establish a rigorous public education campaign to sensitise the public about Regional Integration. iii. The MoFCA liaise with the Ministry of Tourism and MONS, Immigration Division regarding the feasibility of spearheading and implementing a regional island-hopping package to CARICOM destinations that would involve special immigration arrangements. iv. The MoFCA lobby for the speedy ratification of the Multilateral Air Services Agreement.
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III. Trinidad and Tobago’s stance on regional integration i. the MALF meet with the MoFCA and the MoTI as it concerns the mechanisms that can be employed to increase exports to CARICOM. ii. the MoFCA meet with all Ministries and entities regarding the timely submission of information and the feasibility of employing a liaison officer who can be easily contacted to submit information where necessary in a timely manner. iii. the scheduling of an annual meeting hosted by the MoFCA for Permanent Secretaries of all Ministries to keep them abreast of what is expected in relation to submitting information in a timely manner to the MoFCA to facilitate Trinidad and Tobago’s consistent attendance at regional meetings. iv. the MALF maximize the potential of the remaining 800 unused acres of land available through the Cross border initiative with Guyana to increase its exports to CARICOM. v. the MoFCA in its capacity of general oversight of all CARICOM issues, collaborate with the MoPD, MoTI and MALF to establish a computerized method to chart and present information on CARICOM’s benefits and drawbacks to Trinidad and Tobago so that information can be readily accessible when necessary.
IV. The current policies that facilitate regional integration i. Trinidad and Tobago continue to pursue policies and other legislation that can be used as a template by other Member States. ii. Trinidad and Tobago market its policies to other Member States with a view to harmonizing policies across the region.
V. The efficiency and capacity of CARICOM i. Trinidad and Tobago initiate calls for renewed negotiations for the FTAA.
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3. The Committee
Establishment and Mandate 3.1 On Friday November 07, 2014 and December 09, 2014 the House of Representatives and the Senate respectively agreed to resolutions on the subject of the appointment of Joint Standing Committees. The Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs was one of those Committees thereafter appointed.
3.2 Standing Orders 105 of the House of Representatives and 95 of the Senate give the Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs: (a) “the duty of considering from time to time and reporting, whenever necessary, on– (b) all matters relating to the foreign policy of the Government (including missions abroad) and examining the implications and likely effect on Trinidad and Tobago; (c) International treaties and agreements entered into by the Government on behalf of the State and advising the Parliament of their likely impact on Trinidad and Tobago; and (d) other matters relating to Foreign Affairs as may be referred to it by the House.”.
Powers 3.3 By Standing Orders 111 of the House of Representatives and 101 of the Senate, the Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs is additionally empowered to: (a) send for persons, papers and records; (b) sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; (c) adjourn from place to place; (d) report from time to time; (e) appoint specialist advisers either to supply information which is not otherwise readily available, or to elucidate matters of complexity within the Committee’s order of reference; (f) communicate with any other Committee on matters of common interest; and
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(g) meet concurrently with any other Committee for the purpose of deliberating, taking evidence or considering draft reports.
Chairmanship 3.4 In accordance with Standing Orders 97(3) of the House of Representatives and 87(3) of the Senate, the Committee at its first meeting held on Wednesday December 02, 2015, elected Ms. Marlene McDonald as Chairman and Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon, MP as Vice-Chairman.
Meetings 3.5 The Committee held two public hearings on the following dates: June 07, 2017; and January 24, 2018. 3.6 The Minutes, Verbatim Notes and Attendance Record are attached at Appendices I, II and III respectively.
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4. Work of the Committee
4.1 At its twelfth meeting held on May 03, 2017, the Committee agreed that its inquiry into Regional Integration and the Strengthening of the CARICOM Institution will be held in public on Wednesday June 07, 2017.
4.2 At this meeting, the Committee met with officials from the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs in order to obtain their views in relation to the subject of the inquiry.
4.3 The Committee subsequently met with officials from the following Ministries on January 24, 2018 to obtain their views on the issue: - Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries; - Ministry of National Security; and - Ministry of Trade and Industry.
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5. Introduction
Background
5.1 Integration among countries involves the process of growing social, cultural, economic and political interactions. Integration in the regional context involves Caribbean nations strengthening ties, removing existing barriers and intertwining economies. Regional integration also speaks to a conjoined society of English-speaking Caribbean nations, whose co-operation can affect its social impact and power relations on the international political platform.
5.2 Regional integration has been a theme in the English-speaking Caribbean from colonial times.3
5.3 Both Caribbean stakeholders and the wider development community have acknowledged regional integration as a key mechanism in advancing the region’s development. As a collection of small states, regional integration in the Caribbean is seen as an important means of improving efficiency and generating economies of scale as well as strengthening the region’s negotiating power in relation with other states. The development community has given its support to the region’s integration agenda, with the aim of supporting sustainable development and poverty reduction in the Caribbean. At the sub-regional level, integration is more advanced through the Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS), whose members share common institutions and a common currency; collaborate in many functional areas and policies; and have recently formed an Economic Union.
5.4 Given the continued decline in oil prices and the resultant effects on world economies and the region as a whole, it is imperative that there is a strong regional institution to help cushion the blows of a hostile global economy.
3http://caricom.org/community/the-west-indies-federation/ Website Accessed on January 11th 2017
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Objectives of the Inquiry: I. To investigate CARICOM’s efforts to encourage regional integration; II. To assess whether regional integration can feasibly occur, with a particular focus on any successes thus far and any challenges; III. To assess Trinidad and Tobago’s stance on regional integration; IV. To understand the current policies that facilitate regional integration; V. To examine the efficiency and capacity of CARICOM; VI. To determine CARICOM’s plans and strategies for strengthening its organs and the institution as a whole; VII. To determine the challenges, successes and opportunities of CARICOM; and VIII. To determine the extent to which CARICOM has implemented any recommendations and the successes of such recommendations, if any.
Written Submissions 5.5 The Committee received written submissions from the following Ministries and entities: - Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs; - Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries; - Ministry of Trade and Industry; - Ministry of National Security; - Ministry of Planning and Development - Ministry of Finance; and - Institute of International Relations.
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6. Key Issues, Findings and Recommendations
6.1 The following is a synopsis of the issues that were generated from the public examinations held on June 07, 2017 and January 24, 2018, together with the Committee’s findings and recommendations:
I. CARICOM’s Efforts to Encourage Regional Integration
CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015-2019 6.1.1. According to the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs (MoFCA), CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015-2019 is focused on its Vision to “integrate, inclusive and resilient: driven by knowledge, excellence, innovation and productivity; a Community where every citizen is secure and has the opportunity to realize his or her potential with guaranteed human rights and social justice; and contributes to, and shares in its economic, social and cultural prosperity.”
6.1.2. The evidence tendered by the Institute of International Relations (IIR), University of the West Indies (UWI), St. Augustine Campus, indicated that CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015-2019 fosters regional integration by: a. Recognising the importance and necessity of regional integration; b. Emphasising the adoption of a long term vision; c. Proposing a mechanism for measuring regional integration; d. Deepening the CARICOM integration process by advancing CARICOM Single Market and Economy (CSME); e. Strengthening CARICOM’s identity and promoting a sense of belonging; f. Co-ordinating policy; and g. Harmonising and developing a Common Policy.
Recent Conferences/Seminars on Integration 6.1.3. Based on the submission received from the IIR, there have been several recent conferences/seminars on integration. Details on those events are provided at Appendix IV.
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6.1.4. As it pertains to regional security issues, the Ministry of National Security (MONS) indicated that within the past year, meetings were convened to discuss security issues and covered matters relating to the harmonisation of legislation, integration of processes, operations, responses and co-operative action (Appendix IV also provides details on conferences/seminars related to regional security).
Training in CSME 6.1.5. The Ministry of Trade and Industry (MoTI) submitted that there have been several training activities on the CSME including in thematic areas.
The Caribbean Development Fund 6.1.6. The Caribbean Development Fund (CDF) is a mechanism established under Chapter 7, Article 158 of the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas (RTC) to assist smaller states. The Agreement was signed by the CARICOM Heads of Government on July 04, 2008 and the fund became operational in November, 2008 to provide financial and technical support through Country Assistance Programmes to disadvantaged countries, regions and sectors’4. The work of the Fund is implemented in cycles and aims to ‘address the disparities among Member States of CARICOM which may result from the implementation of the CSME.’5
6.1.7. All Member States are required to contribute to the Fund’s capital on the basis of a formula agreed on by the CARICOM Heads of Government. Details of Trinidad and Tobago’s contributions as it relates to the operations of the CDF are at Appendix V.
6.1.8. The fund continues to be operational and has been successful to date.
CARICOM Trade Support Programme 6.1.9. The Government of Trinidad and Tobago established the CARICOM Trade Support Programme (CTS) as a loan facility of TT$100 million (US$16.5million) to assist CARICOM States in enhancing their economic performance through fostering
4 Caribbean Development Fund. Our History. http://caricomdevelopmentfund.org/about-us/who-we-are/history/ 5 Ibid.
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diversification and improved trade capacity. The Fund can be accessed by firms in CARICOM except those located in Trinidad and Tobago.
CARICOM Support for Member States 6.1.10. According to the MoFCA, CARICOM supports Member States through the provisions of: - CARICOM model legislation, including assistance to amend existing legislation; - Country- specific draft legislation; - Training; and - Sensitisation among matters.
6.1.11. Furthermore, support is provided through the MoFCA’s Work Programmes and Strategic Plan 2015-2019, through which the Ministry sought to undertake work in the following areas: - The elaboration of a roadmap for a Single ICT Space; - Improving statistical data in the region; - Enhancing intra-regional and extra-regional relations; - Strengthening capacities for a regional approach; and - Ensuring that the Community is responsive to evolving global developments in respect of challenges to the region such as security and economic adversities.
The Lack of Awareness among the Citizens of Member States about CARICOM 6.1.12. An impediment to deepening regional integration as identified by the MoFCA, is the lack of awareness among the citizenry of Member States in respect of the Community and the benefits which can accrue from regional integration.
The Efforts of the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs to Raise the Public’s Awareness about CARICOM 6.1.13. The Committee was informed that the MoFCA promotes public awareness outreach activities that are directed at tertiary institutions with a focus is on the CSME. Additionally, the Ministry actively participates in public service week observances where it raises awareness about CARICOM.
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6.1.14. The MoFCA has observed that although members of the public have been expressing interest in obtaining information about CARICOM, the public lacks basic information about the institution.
6.1.15. The MoFCA also submitted that, “…while there has generally been a greater awareness among Member States officials and Community nationals regarding rights and obligations arising from the Treaty, and decisions of the relevant Organs, more can be done to increase awareness and to fully give effect to the Treaty provisions and decisions.”
6.1.16. The MoFCA admitted that there is room for improvement in its overall outreach efforts.
The MoFCA’s Role in Fostering the Spirit of the Community 6.1.17. CARICOM was described as the “Spirit of Community”. Emanating out of discussions with officials of MoFCA, was the need for the Ministry to be engaged in spearheading the same in Trinidad and Tobago.
Findings
1. CARICOM provides support to facilitate regional integration in areas such as funding through its CDF for the more vulnerable states; training in CSME; and by providing the regional framework through its Strategic Plan 2015-2019. The Committee noted the information provided by the Ministry of Planning and Development (MOPD) on Trinidad and Tobago’s contribution to the CDF, that it is the major contributing country to the Fund. The Committee also noted from the information submitted by the MOPD, that approximately one fifth of Trinidad and Tobago’s stipulated contributions to the CDF are derived from the Petroleum Fund. Trinidad and Tobago has also been assisting other CARICOM Member States through its CTS Programme which is geared towards attracting smaller states to CARICOM. However, the responsibility lies with all states to fully participate in CARICOM.
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2. Furthermore, from the written and oral evidence submitted, it was noted that an impediment amongst Member States including Trinidad and Tobago concerned the fact that a large portion of the general public is unaware of the role and function of CARICOM and the role and function of the countries involved. It is therefore imperative that the general public is informed about the role and function of CARICOM and that a spirit of regionalism is engendered in Trinidad and Tobago in order to successfully achieve the strategic objectives of CARICOM. The Committee concurs with the MoFCA that more can be done to increase awareness and to give effect to Treaty provisions and decisions.
3. The Committee also noted that the MoFCA’s outreach programmes and activities were limited to tertiary institutions and public week observances. It is clear that this needs to be expanded to raise public awareness and advocacy on CARICOM.
The Committee recommends that:
i. The MoFCA as the Ministry responsible for CARICOM Affairs should be the advocate for regionalism and “spread the good news to the people of Trinidad and Tobago”. Annual outreach programmes at convenient and strategic locations such as popular malls and expositions can assist in this regard. ii. The MoFCA act in the “Spirit of the Community” by revising its annual public awareness programmes so that all communities in Trinidad and Tobago are reached. iii. The MoFCA also implement annual outreach programmes and activities in primary and secondary schools by expanding its outreach curriculum to include the importance of regional integration, its benefits and drawbacks, the significance of the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ), the importance of having a Caribbean Identity and the public’s role in facilitating the Caribbean Identity.
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II. Whether Regional Integration Can Feasibly Occur, With a Particular Focus on Any Successes Thus Far, And Any Challenges
Smaller States’ Challenges with Regional Integration 6.1.18. According to the MoFCA, smaller less developed states may appear less endowed because of their smaller economies, financial insecurity, and inability to contribute to regional integration. It was also indicated that these challenges are synonymous with other small states in other regional integration organisations.
6.1.19. From the onset of its involvement in regional integration in the 1960’s, Trinidad and Tobago has expressed the need for special considerations to be accorded to lesser developed countries in the region to eliminate the perception of winners and losers in the system of regional integration.
Principal Aims of Integration 6.1.20. The IIR indicated that the principal aims of integration include: - Achieving economies of scale; - Sharing costs in operations of common services; - Pooling bargaining power in external relations; and - Pursuing synergies derived from combining human, financial and other resources of Member States in the development effort.
Major Benefits of Regional Integration 6.1.21. The MoTI informed the Committee of the major benefits of regional integration such as: - A stronger voice in the international trading community, including greater negotiating power for participating countries; - More efficient use of financial and human resources when negotiating as a group; - Increased attractiveness as a destination for investors and Foreign Direct Investment (FDI); - Increased trade, as trade barriers are reduced and there is greater trade facilitation between participating countries;
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- Greater opportunities for domestic and regional producers to achieve economies of scale as the market size is increased; - Improved quality of life as consumers have access to a wider variety of goods and services; - Lower prices and better quality of goods and services through increased competition; - More efficient allocation of resources as market equilibrium is achieved with the free movement of the factors of production, including labour; - Creation of more opportunities for nationals to study, travel and work in CARICOM countries of their choice; and - Greater peace and security amongst countries in close geographic proximity.
Competition amongst CARICOM Countries 6.1.22. The Committee was cognizant that competition amongst CARICOM Member States is a major deterrent to regional integration and manifests in the following areas inter alia: Regional Tourism Regional tourism is difficult to facilitate because it denotes island hopping and not visiting an individual Member State.
Joint Representation The Committee was informed that there are various modalities to achieving Joint Representation for example, a rent sharing arrangement where one building can be used to accommodate a number of embassies in separate offices to reduce the associated rental costs, or the formation of a sole Caribbean Embassy in each country staffed by representatives from the region. However, it was indicated that in the former arrangement there may be issues such as competing interests regarding like products such as tourism since embassies are competing with the same products. In the latter arrangement, the extent to which representatives actively market a Member State that is not their own is contentious.
The Committee was also advised that under the Vienna Convention and Diplomatic Relations, the receiving State has to agree to accept the arrangement to represent other countries. It was indicated that joint representation has met some successes and in
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other instances it has not. Notwithstanding, discussions regarding the sharing of embassies are ongoing.
The Need to Strengthen the Caribbean Identity 6.1.23. The Committee was informed that a Caribbean identity already exists through regional institutions such as the UWI, the Leeward Islands Air Transport (LIAT), and an often- overlooked powerful, regional integration entity in the area of education, the Caribbean Examination Council (CXC).
6.1.24. However, there remains the challenge of bringing together individual Sovereign States which have their own interests and areas of focus.
6.1.25. Also, emanating out of the discussions was the need to promote a greater sense of belonging among various people in the region which is consistent with CARICOM’s Strategic Plan. CARICOM countries must first believe that they are a part of a Community and are accountable to each other.
6.1.26. The evidence also indicated that the CCJ and harmonized procurement policies can assist with strengthening the Caribbean identity.
Student Exchange Programmes 6.1.27. As it pertains to student exchanges, the Committee was advised that the CARICOM Multilateral Air Service Agreement needs to be advanced in order to expand “the scope for airlines owned by CARICOM nationals to provide air services throughout the Community.’6 . Given the regional and international nature of the UWI, it can play a critical role in promoting such programmes within the region. It was also indicated that the countries of the European Union (EU) use students exchange programmes to help build interpersonal relationships between the different countries.
6 Guyana signs CXC and MASA Agreement. https://today.caricom.org/tag/multilateral-air-services-agreement/
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Findings 1. Based on the evidence received, regional integration is feasible as evidenced by the establishment of regional institutions inclusive of education and sports. However, the Committee noted that there is need to strengthen the Caribbean identity and by extension, the institutions that comprise the regional body.
2. The Committee also noted that the aims of CARICOM can be beneficial to all member countries especially smaller States.
3. Regional integration can provide numerous benefits that can result in cost savings for Member States in the form of student exchange programmes, special immigration arrangements for Member States, sharing of embassies, and regional tourism, but these are not being explored or implemented due to issues such as competition, and the prioritisation of national interests over regional interests. This in turn, affects the overall strengthening of the Caribbean identity and regionalism.
4. The Committee is also mindful that Trinidad and Tobago could only fulfil its own role in regional integration and the onus is therefore on all Member States to do their part and share in the “Spirit of Regionalism”.
The Committee recommends that:
i. Trinidad and Tobago continue to pursue arrangements that can improve integration amongst Member States in the areas of student exchange programmes and immigration arrangements. ii. The MoFCA establish a rigorous public education campaign to sensitise the public about Regional Integration. iii. Trinidad and Tobago undertake a feasibility study and cost/benefit analysis on the establishment of a shared embassy which can represent other countries as stipulated under the Vienna Convention and Diplomatic Relations. We further recommend that the findings of this study be shared with other
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CARICOM countries and that consultations be held in order to gauge the willingness of countries to share an embassy. iv. The MoFCA liaise with the Ministry of Tourism and MoNS, Immigration Division regarding the feasibility of spearheading and implementing a regional island-hopping package to CARICOM destinations that would involve special immigration arrangements. v. The MoFCA lobby for the speedy ratification of the Multilateral Air Services Agreement.
III. Trinidad and Tobago’s Stance on Regional Integration
Trinidad and Tobago’s Participation in Regional Integration 6.1.28. According to the submission received from the MoFCA, Trinidad and Tobago as a founding and long-standing member of the Caribbean Community has consistently championed for regional integration. In so doing, Trinidad and Tobago has actively participated in meetings of the various organs of the Community.
6.1.29. Trinidad and Tobago has engaged in a number of recent initiatives as it pertains to CARICOM. These were submitted by the MoFCA as follows: - Changed the name of its line Ministry to give focus to CARICOM from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs. - In February 2016, at the Twenty-Seventh Inter-Sessional Meeting of the Conference of Heads of Government of CARICOM, in Palencia Belize, Trinidad and Tobago became the first country to sign the Protocol Amending the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas to incorporate the Council for Ministers with responsibility for National Security and Law Enforcement (CONSLE) as an organ of the Community and the Implementation Agency for Crime and Security (IMPACS) as an Institution of the Community. - In July 2016, at the Thirty-Seventh Regular Meeting of the Conference of Heads of Government of CARICOM held in Georgetown, Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago posited the view that the CSME was fundamental to the regional
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integration movement and called for the issue to return to the agenda of the Conference and be given priority focus. - Trinidad and Tobago will host CARIFESTA XIV in 2019. - Trinidad and Tobago has played a critical role in providing assistance, in the form of financial, logistical and in-kind support to CARICOM States struck by natural disasters.
6.1.30. There are also a number of CARICOM organisations that are physically based in Trinidad and Tobago including: - CCJ; - Caribbean Association of Judicial Officers (CAJO); and - CARICOM IMPACS.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Other Financial Contributions to Regional Integration 6.1.31. The Committee was informed that Trinidad and Tobago remains committed to meeting its financial contributions. The country has been generally up to date in terms of its financial contributions to not only the CDF as previously mentioned, but also to the CARICOM Competition Commission and the CARICOM Regional Organisation for Standards and Quality.
Achieving CARICOM’s Goals 6.1.32. Trinidad and Tobago has taken a multi-sectorial approach to achieving CARICOM’s goals. The MoFCA holds the capacity of general oversight of all CARICOM issues which relate to Trinidad and Tobago and co-ordinates with other Ministries in the exercise of that function.
6.1.33. Additionally, Heads of Missions brief various line ministries and keep them abreast of the different areas for implementation emanating from the Missions. However, in recognizing the need to continue work in this area, the MoFCA indicated that attention was being given to promoting Missions and interfacing with Ministries.
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6.1.34. Notwithstanding, the MoFCA admitted that as the coordinator of all Ministries it faces the following challenges: The responsiveness of stakeholders - some partners and stakeholders are more responsive than others; Reporting at meetings within specific deadlines - The MoFCA relies on other Ministries and entities to provide information in a timely manner for its effective participation in CARICOM meetings; Adequately preparing for meetings - Trinidad and Tobago’s involvement in CARICOM has afforded it a position where it is seen as a leader. It is therefore critical that the MoFCA is well prepared to actively engage in discussions at meetings. It is also of the utmost importance that there are effective communication and information exchanges with local line Ministries, which aid in the effective debates and deliberations of Trinidad and Tobago at regional meetings.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Ultimate Goal for Regional Integration and its Challenges 6.1.35. Trinidad and Tobago’s ultimate goal for regional integration is the social and economic development of the Community and this goal essentially dovetails with the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas, the constitutional document of the Community. As it pertains to social development, health and wellness are critical. It was also indicated that strengthening relationships among CARICOM Member States is a high priority for the current Government of Trinidad and Tobago. Additionally, its current policy accords great priority to the issue of skills, in particular, skills development among youth, persons in the workforce, and persons who have lost their jobs and are seeking re-employment.
Adjustments made by Trinidad and Tobago towards Regional Integration Efforts to trade regionally 6.1.36. According to the MoTI, Trinidad and Tobago has developed over the years a trade policy and remains consistent to the characteristics of external trade. Additionally, some of the activities undertaken by the MoTI to advance Regional Integration were: - Participation in regional organs and bodies; - Enforcement of tariff and other arrangements; - Compliance with policy making and implementation;
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- Provision of financial support for regional institutions; and - Development and implementation of the CTS Programme.
6.1.37. It was also indicated that the MoTI is CARICOM’s Ministerial lead for the region’s Bilateral Trade Negotiations.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Negative Balance of Trade in CARICOM 6.1.38. In delving deeper into Trinidad and Tobago’s trade in CARICOM, the Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries (MALF) confirmed that Trinidad and Tobago has a negative balance of trade averaging TT $365 Mn as it concerns agricultural products as illustrated in Table 1 below: Table 1 Trinidad and Tobago’s Balance of Trade with CARICOM (Agriculture including Fish, Meat and Meat Products, $TT) Years 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 Imports 511,955,115 507,808,849 494,941,592 494,941,592 478,808,362
Exports 147,903,000 143,445,386 133,785,630 118,361,971 118,844,711 Balance of Trade -364,052,115 -364,363,463 -361,155,962 -376,579,621 -359,963,651
Source: MALF dated June 21, 2017
6.1.39. Further, MALF indicated that production in Trinidad and Tobago over the last five to six years has been relatively consistent with no real increase as evidenced in Table 2 which outlines Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Production and Export for the years 2011 to 2016.
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Table 2: Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Production and Export, 2011-2016 (Kg.) KGs
Year 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 107,410, 108,219,3 98,649,28 105,581, 99,280,66 101,436, Agriculture Production 612 38.8 0.3 135 9.7 984 44,459,5 19,665,17 20,531,50 18,969,2 14,849,23 16,585,0 Agriculture Exports to CARICOM 99 5 3 43 6 18 Agriculture Exports Relative to Domestic Production 41% 18% 21% 18% 15% 16% * Estimated Agriculture Production includes: Cocoa, Coffee, Copra, Milk, Broilers, Eggs, Pork, Chevron, Mutton, Rabbit Meat and Beef, Green Vegetables, Root Crops, Other Pulses and Rice Source: CSO Trade Database, Food Crop and Livestock Surveys
6.1.40. A perusal of Table 2 indicated that Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Exports to CARICOM markets relative to domestic agricultural production generally declined from 2011 (41%) to present (16%).
6.1.41. The MALF submitted that the possible gains within the agricultural sector of Trinidad and Tobago could be greatly increased by educating stakeholders on the opportunities offered by CARICOM’s integrated market, and providing relevant and updated market information, given an estimated market population of 27million within the CARICOM region. As a result, the MALF has been partnering with the National Marketing Development Company (NAMDEVCO) to train its farmers in marketing, agri-business, and export for the local and regional markets in CARICOM.
6.1.42. The Committee also noted the submission of the MoTI which indicated that Trinidad and Tobago’s exports to CARICOM economies are directly impacted by any decline in those economies.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Exports to CARICOM Markets 6.1.43. Trinidad and Tobago exports pineapple, pumpkin, watermelon, pawpaw and other fruits to countries in the region such as Barbados and Jamaica. It also exports frozen fish fillet
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and chicken parts to Jamaica and corn, ginger and bacon to Guyana. Appendix VI provides further details of Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Exports to CARICOM markets. Commodities for export are determined by demand, supply and price. Generally, farmers indicate the products they are willing to export through the NAMDEVCO and Member States indicate their demand.
Reasons for Trinidad and Tobago’s Low Export of Agriculture Produce to CARICOM 6.1.44. According to the MALF, the relatively low export of agricultural produce to CARICOM was directly attributed to production levels as illustrated in Table 2 and marketing issues as well as insecurity of land tenure, inadequate labour supply, praedial larceny, lack of implementation of Good Agricultural Practices (GAP), limited use of grades and standards and the cost of packaging with increasing costs of production.
6.1.45. The MALF submitted the following recommendations for improving the export of local agricultural produce: (i) Mandatory implementation of GAP and Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP), rather than the current voluntary system; (ii) Legislation for the establishment of Grades and Standards to enhance and support export; (iii) Improved production practices among farmers in an effort to reduce cost of production primarily for key export commodities; (iv) A harmonized approach by CARICOM Member States in determining the conditions for entry of meat and meat products into each other's country; (v) Increased investment in agricultural production, particularly in improving post-harvest handling and storage and reducing losses; (vi) Increase and diversify production to target export markets, including niche markets; (vii) Efficient, affordable, appropriate transportation for carriage of perishable and non-perishable food products within the region; (viii) Improved marketing and marketing information systems and infrastructure, including the development of export market profiles; (ix) Further development of value chains for targeted commodities;
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(x) Improved management systems for land, water and marine resources; and (xi) Adoption and implementation of standards approved by the CARICOM Council for Trade and Economic Development (COTED).
6.1.46. The MALF indicated that it is seeking to formalize the GAP which is currently implemented by farmers on a voluntary basis in order to promote good production for export.
6.1.47. Additionally, the MALF has been producing market access documents which are submitted to prospective importers to increase exports.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Agricultural Imports from CARICOM 6.1.48. Trinidad and Tobago’s agricultural imports from CARICOM have been trending upwards as evidenced in Table 3 below. It was submitted that Trinidad and Tobago has been importing fish, meat and meat products. Table 3: Quantity of Agricultural Imports Relative to Quantity of Domestic Agricultural Production by Percentage (2011-2016)
KGs
Year 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 Agriculture Production 107410612 108219338.8 98649280.3 105581135 99280669.7 101436984 Agriculture Imports from CARICOM 64125627 63531115 61214888 68728143 67973699 102174195 Agriculture Imports Relative to Domestic Production 60% 59% 62% 65% 68% 101% * Estimated Agriculture Production includes: Cocoa, Coffee, Copra, Milk, Broilers, Eggs, Pork, Chevron, Mutton, Rabbit Meat and Beef, Green Vegetables, Root Crops, Other Pulses and Rice Source: CSO Trade Database, Food Crop and Livestock Surveys
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Agricultural Cross Boarder Initiatives 6.1.49. The Committee was informed that the cross-border initiative with Guyana involves one thousand (1,000) acres of land being leased to Trinidad and Tobago. Two hundred (200) acres were used to grow citrus under the direction of the Cooperative Citrus Growers Association of Trinidad and Tobago (CCGA).
The Impact of Trinidad and Tobago’s Economic Situation on its Financial Support to CARICOM 6.1.50. The MoNS indicated that there exists a high degree of economic differentiation among CARICOM Member States and because Trinidad and Tobago has been playing a significant role in supporting CARICOM institutions and policies, there is the expectation that it will rise to the aid of the CARICOM Secretariat when there are financial shortfalls.
6.1.51. However, both the MALF and MoTI indicated that Trinidad and Tobago’s current economic situation can affect its financial support to CARICOM.
6.1.52. Additionally, the MALF indicated that Trinidad and Tobago’s current economic circumstances can reduce the purchasing power of importers and exporters and negatively affect the ability of these entities to make payments under credit arrangements.
6.1.53. The Committee was also informed by the MALF that other CARICOM countries also face similar economic challenges at this time. However, the Caribbean region has tremendous economic and growth potential and the current economic situation presents an opportunity for intensifying co-operation and co-ordination among CARICOM Member States. In the medium to long term, regional integration can be deepened through: - Increased regional cost sharing; - Risk pooling; - Investing in shared public services across the region in areas such as research, development and innovation; and - Sharing in infrastructure for example laboratory facilities.
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Trinidad and Tobago’s Difficulties in Implementing Measures to Deepen and Facilitate Regional Integration 6.1.54. The MoNS indicated that Trinidad and Tobago has been facing difficulties in the following areas: - meeting its financial obligations due to reduced revenues; - bilateral tensions due to immigration issues; - inability to consistently and robustly participate in CARICOM meetings; and - a bureaucratic and circuitous process for adopting decisions and implementing Agreements.
6.1.55. To address these difficulties, Trinidad and Tobago has undertaken the following actions: - Implemented strategies to make payment in tranches over the fiscal period; - Adopted measures to resolve issues relating to the free movement of CARICOM nationals seeking entry at legal ports of entry into Trinidad and Tobago such as training immigration and security officials in customer service to ensure the delivery of the highest standard of service; - The MONS has prioritised the meetings it can participate in and contribute effectively; and - Engaged in more effective liaison with other Government departments for example between the MoFCA and the Ministry of the Attorney General and Legal Affairs (MoAGLA).
6.1.56. The MoTI also indicated that Trinidad and Tobago has done what it could do but has to continue to do more with regards to strengthening regional integration.
CARICOM’s Benefits and economic Cost to Trinidad and Tobago 6.1.57. In its response to the Committee, the MoTI indicated that Trinidad and Tobago has benefited from regional integration as evidenced by the economic aspects as it relates to trade exports. However, the MoFCA indicated that there is no comprehensive data to determine the benefits and economic costs of Trinidad and Tobago’s involvement in CARICOM. The MoTI also indicated that no quantification has been done to determine
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the total contribution of Trinidad and Tobago to CARICOM. However, it has been recognised that in the area of goods, Trinidad and Tobago is a major beneficiary.
6.1.58. In the area of services, it was indicated that statistics are more difficult to obtain. Notwithstanding, it is believed that Trinidad and Tobago is a major beneficiary in the area of services given its contribution of approximately twenty-three percent (23%) to the regional budget.
6.1.59. The MoTI also indicated that it is uncertain whether quantifying Trinidad and Tobago’s contribution to CARICOM will be useful given the number of other issues involved. However, the MoTI maintained that it may be beneficial to have the information available.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Leadership Role in Regional Security 6.1.60. The Prime Minster of Trinidad and Tobago is the lead head for regional security in the quasi Cabinet of CARICOM. The CONSLE reports to the lead Government. Trinidad and Tobago has also led a number of initiatives to assist the security aspect of regional integration efforts. For example, Trinidad and Tobago was the first CARICOM country to establish a cyber-security strategy. Therefore, Trinidad and Tobago’s national initiatives have assisted the regional system on matters of security.
6.1.61. Trinidad and Tobago has also been pursuing correspondent banking, de-risking, regional security issues; and the issue of the Caribbean being unfairly labeled as tax havens by advocating with its bilateral partners, particularly those with an active voice in the multilateral fora, to lobby for these initiatives on behalf of Trinidad and Tobago and the region.
Findings: 1. Trinidad and Tobago’s commitment to reinvigorating its position, role and contribution to CARICOM is clearly enunciated. However, like other CARICOM counterparts, Trinidad and Tobago’s economic situation can affect its ability to do things particularly as it concerns its financial contributions.
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2. Trinidad and Tobago has not been performing optimally in terms of its exports to CARICOM. The Committee noted the initiatives of the MALF to increase production and exports. However, there is still more that the MALF can do. The Committee was unclear as to whether the MALF has a relationship with the MoFCA and the MoTI as it pertains to export to CARICOM countries. It may prove beneficial if these three (3) Ministries meet to discuss and establish the measures that can be taken to increase exports to CARICOM counterparts.
3. There are definite and clear benefits that Trinidad and Tobago has been maximizing on from regional integration but these are not quantified. There is need for Trinidad and Tobago to take stock of its benefits and drawbacks from CARICOM given that it contributes almost a quarter of its budget to the regional institutional arrangements.
4. The Committee observed that the Cross–Border Initiative with Guyana is currently being driven by an independent Association. The Committee is of the view that the MALF can do more to expand this area particularly as there remains a supplementary 800 acres of land available, which are currently being leased to Trinidad and Tobago from Guyana and can be mobilised to increase exports to CARICOM.
The Committee recommends that:
i. the MALF meet with the MoFCA and the MoTI as it concerns the mechanisms that can be employed to increase exports to CARICOM. ii. the MoFCA meet with all Ministries and entities regarding the timely submission of information and the feasibility of employing a liaison officer who can be easily contacted to submit information where necessary in a timely manner. iii. the implementation of an annual meeting hosted by the MoFCA for Permanent Secretaries of all Ministries to keep them abreast of what is expected in relation to submitting information in a timely manner to the
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MoFCA to facilitate Trinidad and Tobago’s consistent attendance at regional meetings. iv. the MALF maximize the potential of the remaining 800 unused acres of land available through the Cross border initiative with Guyana to increase its exports to CARICOM. v. the MoFCA in its capacity of general oversight of all CARICOM issues, collaborate with the MoPD, MoTI and MALF to establish a computerized database to chart and present information on CARICOM’s benefits and drawbacks to Trinidad and Tobago so that information can be readily accessible when necessary.
IV. Current Policies that Facilitate Regional Integration
Trinidad and Tobago’s Policies which Facilitate Regional Integration 6.1.62. Trinidad and Tobago’s policies are guided by the Government’s Official Policy Framework and the Draft National Development Strategy 2016-2030 (Vision 2030). The Policy Framework speaks to repairing relationships with CARICOM while the Vision 2030 document speaks to regional integration as it concerns partnerships for development, good governance and service excellence.
6.1.63. Trinidad and Tobago has also incorporated the CSME into its domestic legislation through the Caribbean Community Act of 2005.
6.1.64. A Strategic Plan with respect to Non-Communicable Diseases (NCD) which ends in 2021 was also implemented by Trinidad and Tobago in keeping with CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015-2019 which treats with inter alia advancing initiatives for health and wellness.
MoFCA Draft Plan 6.1.65. The MoFCA prepared a draft plan which is consistent with Government’s national plan (National Development Strategy 2016‒2030) (Vision 2030). The draft is under review to ensure that it conforms to the 2030 document.
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Trinidad and Tobago’s Trade Policy 6.1.66. According to the MoTI, many of Trinidad and Tobago’s national policies are the adoption of regionally developed policies. Trinidad and Tobago was one of the first countries to adjust its common external tariff and has consistently made adjustments in line with policies and tariffs agreed at the regional level. Additionally, Trinidad and Tobago’s Trade Policy and Strategy 2013-2017 was developed taking into consideration the obligations and opportunities available under the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas.
Adjustments made by Trinidad and Tobago to facilitate Regional Security 6.1.67. The adjustments made by the MoNS to its national security policies to advance regional integration include various initiatives such as establishing cyber security initiatives.
6.1.68. In such an instance, there was a superimposition to some extent on some of the national initiatives towards the regional system of integration on matters of security. This resulted in a national initiative being shared with other Member States, so that a commonality of capacity development could occur across the region.
Trinidad and Tobago’s National and Regional Agricultural Policies 6.1.69. Trinidad and Tobago’s national agricultural policies are aligned to the region’s agricultural policies. Some of the regional polices and initiatives that have informed the development of Trinidad and Tobago’s national policies for agriculture include: . Caribbean Community Agricultural Policy; . Regional Food and Nutrition Security Policy and Action Plan; . Common Fisheries Policy; . CARICOM Agribusiness Strategy; and . Draft Biotechnology Policy.
Public Procurement Legislation for Trinidad and Tobago 6.1.70. The Committee was advised that the Public Procurement Regime for Trinidad and Tobago has been passed but has not yet been fully proclaimed. It was indicated that this legislation
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will provide countries the opportunity to tender for activities in other countries regionally which will assist with promoting a regional identity.
Challenges with Harmonsing Regional Policies 6.1.71. The Committee was made cognizant of the impediments to achieving regional integration as it relates to harmonizing policies: the absence of homogeneity in the region which is evident in the intrinsic vulnerabilities of some Member States as well as the reality of differing levels of capabilities and financial abilities; and the difficulty in unifying homogeneous interests, policies and regimes of fifteen (15) independent, Sovereign States.
6.1.72. Similarly, the MoTI proffered that the main hindrance towards regional integration is the contradiction which takes place between nationalism and regionalism. Nationally, Governments hold certain interests which may or may not coincide with regional interests. If there is not buy- in at the various levels with regard to goods, customs, standards, movement of services and factors of production, movement of people and currency, regional integration cannot be achieved.
Findings 1. It is evident that Trinidad and Tobago has taken a concerted effort to harmonise its national policies with regional policies. 2. It was also noted that Trinidad and Tobago has taken the lead in setting policies for the region to follow such as in the area of regional security as evidenced by its efforts to implement Cybercrime strategies and the Procurement Legislation. 3. Notwithstanding, because of the variations amongst Member States in terms of capabilities, and financial abilities, there are challenges to harmonizing policies regionally. 4. The Committee noted that the public procurement legislation will promote the Caribbean Identity and would be more effective if the legislation is harmonised across Member States.
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The Committee recommends that:
i. Trinidad and Tobago continue to pursue policies and other legislation that can be used as a template by other Member States. ii. Trinidad and Tobago market its policies to other Member States with a view to harmonizing policies across the region.
V. Efficiency and Capacity of CARICOM
CARICOM Contributions 6.1.73. All Member States are contributing territories and pay towards the life and sustenance of CARICOM. Funds are also sourced through the EU’s European Development Fund (EDF) and Canada, among others, to fund the CARICOM Head Office.
6.1.74. However, the MoFCA indicated that the limitations experienced by Member States to pay their contributions as well as the loss of donor funding will adversely impact the CARICOM Secretariat’s ability to effect the Community’s Strategic Plan 2015-2019 including projects and programmes targeted for implementation.
CARICOM’s Diminished Competitive Edge 6.1.75. The Committee was informed by the representative from the MoTI that the competitive edge that a CARICOM country would have had previously has diminished significantly. The weakened competitive force was attributed to the failure to complete the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA). The MoTI proffered that any arrangement to advance the regional arrangement must not only involve efforts from the More Developed Countries (MDCs) of CARICOM, Trinidad and Guyana, but consideration must also be given to smaller territories, who may feel that they have been disadvantaged over the years.
Improvements in Service 6.1.76. The Committee was informed that there have been some areas of progress as it relates to the categories of skills created during the implementation of the CSME in 2001 when
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Protocol Two (2) was developed for integration into the treaty. For example, university graduates, teachers, musicians, and sportsmen have been included in the categories. However, the level of progress is not what was anticipated for example in areas like currency, economics and harmonization of economic models.
6.1.77. The MoTI proffered the operationalization of the contingent rights in the treaty which will allow a person who is moving to provide services within the region, to move with their family.
6.1.78. The MoTI also stated in its submission that Trinidad and Tobago’s level of ambition in trade as it relates to services negotiations is constrained by the region’s own interest level.
Regional Security 6.1.79. CARICOM Member States have adopted a regional security architecture within which common security issues are addressed. In this context, four (4) crucial agencies have been established: (i) CARICOM IMPACS; (ii) Regional Security System (RSS); (iii) Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency (CDEMA); and (iv) The Caribbean Aviation Safety and Security Oversight System (CASSOS).
6.1.80. The MoNS indicated that many security challenges are transnational in nature, and given varying resource constraints with common multidimensional threats, the regional approach to security allows for the mobilization of resources among different Sovereign States to treat with common challenges to security. However, the MoNS indicated that there are variations to security realities across various sovereign States.
6.1.81. The multidimensional framework allows for the pursuit of new and innovative ways to treat with threats and there is constant review of the various agencies within the framework because issues are not static.
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6.1.82. It was indicated that Trinidad and Tobago achieves national security through fundamental aspects of regional security. Regional Integration also assists with treating with challenges that are generated outside of Trinidad and Tobago.
6.1.83. The MoNS also indicated that security within CARICOM makes its way up to the Conference of Heads of Government and provides the opportunity for CARICOM to reach out to other international partners.
Regional Security Initiatives to Treat with the Drug Trade Issue
6.1.84. During discussions, reference was made to two (2) security initiatives that were implemented by CARICOM to assist with the drug trade issue. The first was the implementation of an Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV); the contract for this vessel was cancelled and a long-range vessel was procured in 2018. The second was the implementation of interconnected radar systems in some islands in the Southern Caribbean to provide some measure of surveillance. It was indicated that the radar systems were implemented to generate statistics such as the quantity of drugs that passes through the islands.
6.1.85. The Committee was informed that ship based helicopters can be used to aid in command control, communication, intelligence gathering, surveillance, reconnaissance and interdiction. Given the capacity of OPVs to conduct sustained operations, they would have significantly contributed to fortifying the borders of CARICOM States and improved the Coast Guard’s ability to deter and interdict smugglers of all types.
6.1.86. The Committee was apprised of the following successes of the radar systems: (i) Improved information sharing amongst Island Partners and the National Coastal Surveillance Radar Centre (NCSRC) has been achieved through a Satellite Communications Data Link and also physical reporting lines; (ii) The system made Regional Maritime domain awareness possible and has provided early warning against suspected illegal activity to all islands within the regional grouping. It has also made possible the monitoring of the Trinidad and
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Tobago Coast Guard (TTCG) and other locally flagged vessels that transit the Southern Caribbean for various reasons such as delivering Humanitarian Aid and Disaster Relief Supplies; and (iii) The implementation of the system has resulted in illegal drugs and arms and ammunition seizures within the Southern Caribbean.
6.1.87. The Committee was informed that the existing Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) is to be reviewed locally to encourage and recommend added assistance from Island Partners in maintaining the operational efficiency of the radar system. Additionally, it was indicated that the Island Project is included in the proposed renewal agreement. Once approved this will serve to greatly enhance the capabilities of Command and Control amongst all Island Partners and the NCSRC. This upgrade will further integrate the radar systems to the maritime fleets of the respective islands.
6.1.88. Notwithstanding, the Committee was informed by the MoFCA that the drug trade has continued to expand throughout Latin America and the Caribbean despite the best efforts of Governments and law enforcement agencies.
6.1.89. The MoNS also expressed the need for a certain measure of security in the region which will facilitate trade and economic development, cultural exchanges and a number of other initiatives.
Opportunities for Trade of Animal and Animal Products amongst CARICOM Members 6.1.90. The evidence provided indicated that many CARICOM countries import larger quantities of animals and animal products from the United States of America (USA), Canada and United Kingdom (UK) as opposed to from each other. The CARICOM Chief Veterinary Officers have produced several protocols which have been approved by the COTED involving for example, the movement of sheep and goats throughout the region and boar semen for artificial insemination. Additionally, a CARICOM inspection and trade protocol will be going before the Legislative Affairs Committee of CARICOM which will treat with the importation of animal products in the region.
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6.1.91. The evidence also indicated that the Caribbean Agricultural Health and Food Safety Agency (CAHFSA) of CARICOM conducted a risk assessment which involved Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad, Belize, Suriname and Guyana. The assessment revealed that these countries have approved facilities for the export of poultry. The report was adopted by the COTED in October, 2017. However, it was observed that none of these countries import poultry from each other. Nevertheless, it is anticipated that such trade will commence shortly. It was also indicated that Trinidad and Tobago does not meet the required supply of animals and animal products for export because the country consumes what it produces i.e. chicken, beef, mutton and pork.
Trade of Plant and Plant Health Products 6.1.92. As it pertains to plant health, and the trade of plants and plant health products within the region, the Caribbean Plant Health Directors comprising representatives from the region meet and discuss matters with regard to plant and plant health products.
Private Sector involvement in Regional Integration 6.1.93. The Committee was informed by the MoTI that in terms of trade, integration promotes not only Government to Government arrangements but also the backbone and framework for the private sector to operate. The MoFCA also submitted that the business community must clearly understand the CSME process and cross-border issues.
Findings 1. The Committee noted from the evidence that Trinidad, Belize, Suriname and Guyana all possess approved facilities for the export of poultry yet trade is not taking place amongst these countries. Instead, larger quantities of animals and animal products are being imported from the USA, Canada and UK. Additionally, we noted that Trinidad and Tobago needs to increase its supply of animals and animal products for export if it is seeking to do so within CARICOM.
The Committee expressed concern over what it deemed to be a threat to the region’s trade, in which it was found that CARICOM countries are losing their competitive edge to other external counties trading within the region. We noted that the FTAA was never
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finalised which resulted in opened doors to external competition. Furthermore, the elements that created competition or determined the level of competitiveness years ago, are being diminished. There is clearly need to encourage, strengthen and restore where applicable, trade ties amongst CARICOM countries in order to curb the threat of the region losing its competitive edge to countries outside the region.
2. The Committee noted the response of the Chief Veterinary Officer that there must be harmonized approaches to addressing issues. Once there is a harmonized approach for example, trade in plant products or trade in animal products, the region will be heading in the right direction.
3. Integration does not only involve Governments. There is a major role to be played by the private sector and business community in the integration process. It is important that this sector is made cognizant of the CSME process and cross border issues. The onus is on the MoFCA to inform the private sector and business community through outreach programmes and the hosting of informative workshops.
The Committee recommends that:
i. Trinidad and Tobago initiate calls for renewed negotiations for the FTAA. ii. The MALF conduct an investigation into the non-utilisation of the approved facilities for the export of poultry and undertake to mobilize them for production for export within six (6) months of the laying of this Report. A report on this investigation should be forwarded for the consideration of the Committee once completed. iii. The MALF collaborate with the MoFCA to encourage other member countries with approved poultry facilities to participate in production for export within the Community. iv. The MoFCA collaborate with the MoTI, MALF and MOPD to engage the private sector/business community through outreach programmes and an
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annual informative workshop on the CSME process, cross border issues and initiatives and opportunities for the business community within CARICOM.
VI. CARICOM’s Plans and Strategies for Strengthening its Organs and the Institution as a Whole
The Role of the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) in the Success of the CSME 6.1.94. The Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) is regarded as the guardian of the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas. It has two (2) jurisdictions: the original jurisdiction which deals with adjudication on matters relevant to the CSME; and an appellate jurisdiction in both civil and criminal matters from those member states which have ceased to allow appeals to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council.
6.1.95. The Committee was informed that the CCJ will provide a solid judicial foundation for the success of the CSME by protecting and enforcing a range of rights: - Protecting the right to travel freely within Member States; - Protecting the right to move capital within the Community; - Protecting the right to provide services within any Member State; - Interpreting the Treaty and maintaining the balance; - Settling questions of constitutional nature, hearing appeals and giving judgments; and - Providing a solid judicial foundation for the success of the CSME.
6.1.96. The MoTI submitted that despite having been operational for the past twelve (12) years, the CCJ has been struggling to gain recognition as the final court of jurisdiction among CARICOM Member States as evidenced by the fact that only three (3) Caribbean jurisdictions, Guyana, Barbados and Belize, have the CCJ as their final appellate court.
6.1.97. The MoTI recommended that the move as a regional body to incorporate the CCJ as a region will assist in strengthening CARICOM’s identity.
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The implications of Extra-regional partners joining CARICOM 6.1.98. The MoFCA submitted that applications were made by extra-regional partners to join the Community as Associate Members. However, the Heads agreed that these applications should be considered in the broader context of an Official Enlargement Policy for the Community. Nevertheless, significant work is being undertaken with respect to the collaboration of this Policy and Member States anticipate the final approval and endorsement of the Policy.
Findings 1. The Committee noted the significance of adopting the CCJ particularly as it pertains to strengthening the CSME.
2. It is imperative that all Member States adopt the CCJ as the final court of appeal as this will assist in strengthening the CARICOM identity and by extension the Caribbean.
3. The Committee noted from a newspaper article in the Trinidad Guardian published on February 12, 2017 entitled, “The CCJ Comparison” that “Retired Indian Supreme Court Justice Bellur Srikrishna expressed surprise that after 54 years of independence, T&T had still not managed to dispose of the far-off Privy Council in favour of a regional court that already has the backing of all Caricom states, at least in its original jurisdiction on disputes related to the Treaty of Chaguaramas. ‘No sovereign country can allow its judicial decisions to be subject to review by a court of another sovereign country,' said Srikrishna. 'This is a democratic republic. You have been independent (over) 50 years. I am surprised that 50 years it has taken. In India we did it in two.'"
The Committee recommends that:
i. Trinidad and Tobago initiate discussions concerning the Official Enlargement Policy for the Community and champion the call for the CCJ to be the region’s appellate court.
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VII. Challenges, Successes and Opportunities of CARICOM
Possible Negative Impact of CARICOM on Trinidad and Tobago 6.1.99. According to the MOPD, CARICOM is a trade dependent region that is undergoing major changes to its economic relationship with the world. Many of its member countries are vulnerable nations faced with several challenges that can negatively impact on Trinidad and Tobago and have a ripple effect across sectors. Some of these challenges are as follows: - open economies with concentration on a small range of products; - progressive erosion of preferential trading arrangements for exports; - undue pressure from wealthy and powerful donor nations; - issue of safeguarding of political sovereignty and territorial integrity; - community law governing intra-regional freedom of movement of Caribbean nationals resulting in the denial of free intra-regional movement; - the harmful consequences of climate change; - occasional natural disasters such as hurricanes which result in setbacks; and - spreading criminality aided by the trade in illegal guns and drugs.
Global Developments and Implications for CARICOM 6.1.100. The MoFCA identified the ability of Member States to be responsive to multi-faceted global challenges as an impediment to advancing and deepening regional integration.
6.1.101. The MOPD submitted the following global developments that may pose as challenges for CARICOM : - fundamental shifts spawned by changes in policies of the US and UK vis a vis the EU; - the commencement of the BREXIT process and the implication for the region’s trading and development partners; - a new US administration whose policy position towards the region is not clear; - the coming negotiations on the post Cotonou Agreement which will expire in 2020 and the effects on arrangements between the African Caribbean Pacific (ACP) Group of States and the EU;
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- global economic uncertainty and the impact on a region historically reliant on trade, migration and remittances of Caribbean States and their people in the US, UK and Europe; and - implementation of the Sustainable Development Goals in a period of shrinking global resources.
Financial Contributions to CARICOM 6.1.102. The MONS identified financial difficulties occasioned mainly by the tardiness or inability of Member States to make payments of contributions and/or arrears to various organs and institutions within CARICOM as a challenge.
Challenges with Facilitating Regional Security 6.1.103. The Committee was also informed by the MONS that with respect to security there is no enabling structure or system at the Secretariat to meet the commitments in the area of regional security. Resources allocated to this area were also indicated to be limited.
Challenge with Regional Trade 6.1.104. A challenge to regional trade identified by the MoTI is that member countries require a certain level of certainty to trade which they believe should ideally be represented in law as opposed to administrative arrangements. Some Member States who implement by administrative arrangements sometimes encounter a delay in their move towards the legislative dimension.
Challenges with the Freedom of Movement in Caribbean 6.1.105. The Committee was informed that the challenges with the freedom of movement were attributed to: i. the difficult task of fifteen (15) Sovereign States seeking to harmonies policies; ii. the lack of an overarching regional guide to frame and form a standardized basis for the implementation of the regime; iii. the element of fraud where persons are falsifying documents to enter into CARICOM countries; and
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iv. instances where persons with degrees from institutions which are not accredited, obtain skills from other Members States.
6.1.106. Furthermore, it was also discovered that many persons were not in possession of the minimum requirements to obtain CSME certificates as mentioned in Item 6.1.105 there have been instances of fraudulent activities in which persons have falsified documents to enter into CARICOM countries. Trinidad and Tobago has been liaising with the MONS, Immigration Department regarding these activities. The number of false certificates is yet to be determined.
6.1.107. Committees were established with other security agencies to discuss and address such issues.
6.1.108. It was indicated that instances in which such fraudulent activities take place are not relayed to the CARICOM Secretariat. Instead, the MoFCA focuses on the action that it needs to take and the measures to be employed.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Efforts towards the Free Movement of People 6.1.109. The Committee was informed that Trinidad and Tobago is in the process of amending its Immigration (Caribbean Community Skills Nationals) Act Chapter 18:03 to reflect its commitment to the Free Movement of People, which allows qualified CARICOM nationals to enter, live and work in Trinidad and Tobago without the need for a work permit.
6.1.110. The MoFCA also submitted that the key objectives of the decisions relating to the facilitation of travel are to promote a sense of community and advantage over non- CARICOM nationals; and ensure that the hassle-free movement of nationals across Member States will promote economic development in the region.
The Security Challenge posed by Persons who become Economic Citizens 6.1.111. The Committee was informed by the MONS that there exists security challenges by persons who become economic citizens and via the Citizenship by Investment
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Programme (CIP) in the face of rising global security threats both within CARICOM, among participating CSME Member States, among participating members of CIP’s and by countries outside the region. It was indicated that some persons of interest wanted for embezzlement, money laundering, child abduction, fraud and sanction evasions can easily access CARICOM passports through this option.
The Lack of Resources at the Immigration Division to Determine the Number of Visitors who Overstay 6.1.112. The Committee was informed that the Immigration Division lacks the resources to determine the number of visitors who overstay. From time to time, joint exercises are held with the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service (TTPS) and other agencies to retrieve these persons.
6.1.113. Persons found working without a work permit can be prosecuted under the Immigration Act Chapter 18:01.
6.1.114. The Committee was also informed that the number of persons who overstayed represents three (3) percent of the number of persons who arrived legally over a five (5) year period.
6.1.115. It was also indicated that the Immigration Division is unable to detect the number of persons who have been smuggled into Trinidad and Tobago because of its geographic location. However, once alerted of an illegal immigrant, the Division takes action, and due process is followed.
The Perception that CARICOM Nationals are Debarred from Applying to Enter into Trinidad and Tobago 6.1.116. Emanating out of discussions was the perception that CARICOM nationals are debarred from applying to enter into Trinidad and Tobago. The Committee was informed by the Immigration Division that there are very few instances of persons being debarred as compared to persons gaining free access. Oral evidence indicated that Haitian citizens require a visa, but a Venezuelan citizen who belongs to a country that is not part of
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CARICOM can visit unimpeded for ninety (90) days because of a bilateral agreement between Trinidad and Tobago and Venezuela. Hence, one of the reasons for the influx of Venezuelan visitors to Trinidad and Tobago’s shores.
Trinidad and Tobago as a transshipment possibility 6.1.117. The MoTI informed the Committee that it is exploring the possibility of having Trinidad and Tobago as a transshipment area and is also treating with a zone for production. However, the zone for production is yet to be finalized.
Findings 1. There is a lack of an overarching regional guide for the standardisation of the freedom of movement. 2. In the quest to encourage freedom of movement through CARICOM, the Committee noted the security risks associated with the CIP. 3. Trinidad and Tobago should consider legislating its administrative arrangements as it pertains to regional trade. 4. There is need for a mechanism to monitor the length of stay of visitors. 5. There is need to eliminate the perception that nationals of certain countries are favoured more than others. In this regard, information regarding Trinidad and Tobago’s agreement with Venezuela concerning the length of stay permissible for its nationals should be publicised. 6. There is also need for more stringent measures to be put in place to protect Trinidad and Tobago’s borders to eliminate incidences of persons gaining illegal entry into Trinidad and Tobago. 7. Given its ideal location, Trinidad and Tobago can benefit immensely by being a transshipment area.
The Committee recommends that:
i. Trinidad and Tobago lobby for an overarching regional guide for the standardization of the freedom of movement across CARICOM countries.
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ii. The MoFCA publicize by way of notice on its website, not just Trinidad and Tobago’s agreement with Venezuela regarding its visiting policy to the country, but a list of all countries and the permissible length of stay within Trinidad and Tobago. This will eliminate the perception that CARICOM nationals are debarred from applying to enter into Trinidad and Tobago.
VIII. The Extent to which CARICOM has implemented any Recommendations and the Successes of such Recommendations
CARICOM’s Actions and Programmes 6.1.118. The MoFCA indicated that CARICOM’s actions and programmes are guided by the Strategic Plan cycle.
Reviews of Regional Institutions 6.1.119. The MONS indicated that in 2007, the CONSLE CARICOM Heads of Government mandated a comprehensive review of Regional Institutions with a view to effectively rationalize their functions, funding and structure in order to better provide common services and co-ordination of national policies and programmes with the Community.
6.1.120. Additionally, in July, 2011, Heads of Government emphasized the importance of an Independent Review Team to assist in reshaping the architecture and governance structure for Crime and Security in the Region. This was deemed necessary to achieve increased benefits for Member States.
6.1.121. The Reports revealed that due to the number of diverse and complex security issues facing the region, there were significant challenges which should be addressed by stakeholders and policymakers with respect to the issue of Crime and Security.
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6.1.122. The Reports also examined the management framework for crime and security and the regional institutions involved in the issues and made recommendations for alignment of the region on the issue.
6.1.123. The following recommendations emanating out of the Reports have been implemented: 1. Approval of the annual estimates of expenditure by November of each year; 2. The establishment of a regular slot for security and crime issues at Heads of Government meetings; 3. Presentation of strategic analyses of security issues facing the region to Ministers for discussion; and 4. All four regional institutions report to the CONSLE to overcome the major anomaly that all currently report formally to different Councils of Ministers.
Trinidad and Tobago’s Successes - CARICOM Recommendations 6.1.124. In the area of health, as a member State, Trinidad and Tobago implemented the National Council for Drug Abuse (NCDA), in 2007.
6.1.125. Additionally, in 2007, Trinidad and Tobago contributed to building social resilience through its hosting of an NCD Meeting at the level of the CARICOM Heads where regional initiatives such as Caribbean Wellness Day in September were established.
6.1.126. Trinidad and Tobago has implemented a new strategic plan on NCDs which is in keeping with CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015-2019 and has also created programmes such as CDAP in relation to NCDs.
Findings 1. CARICOM has been making strides towards implementing its recommendations. Member States must likewise seek to implement CARICOM recommendations.
The Committee recommends: i. That Trinidad and Tobago continue to implement the recommendations of CARICOM through its national policies.
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Your Committee therefore respectfully submits this Report for the consideration of the Houses.
Sgd. Sgd. Ms. Marlene McDonald, MP Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon Chairman Vice-Chairman
Sgd. Sgd.
Dr. Maria Dillon-Remy Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh, MP Member Member
Sgd. Sgd. Mr. Rodney Charles, MP Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe, MP Member Member
Sgd. Sgd. Ms. Anita Haynes Mr. Avinash Singh Member Member
December 14, 2018
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APPENDICES
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APPENDIX I
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
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JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EXCERPT MINUTES OF THE THIRTEENTH MEETING HELD IN THE J. HAMILTON MAURICE ROOM, MEZZANINE FLOOR, TOWER D, IWFC, #1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN, JUNE 07, 2017
Present were:
Ms. Marlene Mc Donald Chairman Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon Vice-Chairman Mr. Rodney Charles Member Mr. Avinash Singh Member Mr. Rodger Samuel Member Ms. Melissa Ramkissoon Member Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe Member
Mrs. Angelique Massiah Secretary Ms. Kimberly Mitchell Assistant Secretary Ms. Vahini Jainarine Legal Officer Ms. Terriann Baker Parliamentary Intern
Absent was:
Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh Member (Excused)
PUBLIC HEARING WITH OFFICIALS FROM THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AND CARICOM AFFAIRS (MoFA)
6.1 The meeting resumed in public at 2:50 p.m. in the J. Hamilton Maurice Room.
6.2 The Chairman welcomed the officials and introductions were exchanged.
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6.3 The Chairman informed those present that the meeting sought to inquire into the regional integration and strengthening of the CARICOM Institution and outlined the objectives of the inquiry.
6.4 Detailed below are the issues/concerns raised and the responses which were proffered during the discussions with the invited officials:
i. Opening Statement by the Permanent Secretary (MoFA) The PS, MoFA indicated that the Ministry was unable to respond to all sub-questions posed by the Committee since some were interlinked, and in some instances, did not have in its possession, some of the required information. She quoted part of the Prime Minister’s Speech given at the 37th Regular Meeting of the Conference of Heads of Government in July 2016, which she opined demonstrated Trinidad and Tobago’s commitment to CARICOM.
ii. CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015 – 2019 and the role of the Ministry in furthering Regional Integration
a. The goal of CARICOM’s Strategic Plan 2015 – 2019 is the Social and Economic Development of the Community; b. Reinvigorating its relationships with CARICOM Member States is a high priority of the Government; and c. The idea of CARICOM was described as the “Spirit of Community”, which must be heavily spearheaded by the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs in Trinidad and Tobago.
iii. Challenges encountered by the Ministry and as a country in advancing Regional Integration
a. The responsiveness of stakeholders; b. The timeliness of the submission of information from other Ministries/Agencies; c. The Ministry’s dependency on other Ministries for reporting information; participation in meetings; and
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d. The importance of effective communication and information exchanges with local line Ministries to the effective debate and deliberation of Trinidad and Tobago at regional meetings.
iv. Trinidad and Tobago as a leader in CARICOM
a. Trinidad and Tobago’s contribution to building social resilience through its hosting of a Non-Communicable Disease (NCD) Meeting at the level of the CARICOM Heads, 10 years ago; b. The recent roll-out of the Ministry of Health’s strategies for health and wellness with particular reference to NCDs which also puts Trinidad and Tobago as a leader in health and wellness in the region; c. With reference to human capital development, the Government of Trinidad and Tobago accords great priority to the skills development of young persons, be it those who already have jobs, or those who have lost jobs and are looking for new ones; and d. Trinidad and Tobago’s leadership role in regional security matters and banking.
v. Public awareness of CARICOM
a. The Ministry’s outreach is focused on the tertiary institutions since there is a lot of interest from students in the CSME and its opportunities/benefits; and b. More can be done by the Ministry to keep the public sufficiently informed about all things related to CARICOM.
vi. The Caribbean Development Fund
a. The Caribbean Development Fund was developed for smaller Caribbean countries in order to effectively partake in the benefits of CARICOM; and b. The Fund has been successful and there have been incremental improvements along the way.
vii. Strengthening the CARICOM Identity
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The CARICOM ‘identity’ can only be achieved through a greater sense of belonging among Caribbean nations. CARICOM countries must first believe that they are a part of a Community and are accountable to each other.
viii. Regional Integration
a. Caribbean Integration is not a futuristic goal, it is already in existence as evidenced by: o Regional Education Schemes such as the Caribbean Examinations Council (CXC); o The University of the West Indies (UWI); and o The West Indies Cricket Team.
b. West Indies Cricket has also facilitated “island hopping”, where the ease of travel between Caribbean countries was realised and achieved.
ix. Joint Representation and having a CARICOM Secretariat in overseas territories
a. The possibility of having a CARICOM Secretariat in regions outside of the Caribbean was discussed; b. Member States can share building spaces abroad, to share resources and reduce rental and other costs; c. Reference was made to the Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA) where CARICOM and the European Union (EU) engaged each other as trade blocs. In a situation of joint representation, one or two persons, will be required to represent the views of CARICOM States other than their own. Such an arrangement will require the co- operation of the receiving State, who will need to be willing to accept such representation; d. Issues such as competing interests regarding like products such as tourism will need to be considered.
x. Benefits for Trinidad and Tobago
CARICOM holds significant benefits for Trinidad and Tobago, especially in the area of trade with regional partners.
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xi. Challenges related to the free movement of persons
a. Lack of an overarching regional guide for the standardisation of the freedom of movement; b. It was revealed that “fake papers” or falsified certificates were being submitted to the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs by persons trying to gain entry into Trinidad and Tobago; c. The Ministry works closely with the Ministry of National Security and Immigration regarding the issue; d. Trinidad and Tobago is in the process of amending the Caribbean Community Skilled Nationals Act; e. The number of false certificates is yet to be determined; and f. It was also discovered that many persons were not in possession of the minimum requirements to obtain the CSME certificate.
xii. Success in the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs
Success in the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs is measured through the attainment of objectives in its Annual plans.
xiii. Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ)
a. The CCJ is regarded as the guardian of the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas; and b. The CCJ has two jurisdictions, the original jurisdiction which adjudicates on matters related to the CSME and an appellate jurisdiction as the final Court of Appeal.
(For detailed responses provided by the officials of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs please see the Verbatim Notes).
ADJOURNMENT
7.1 The meeting was adjourned at 4:45 p.m.
I certify that these Minutes are true and correct.
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Chairman
Secretary
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JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EXCERPT OF MINUTES OF THE RESCHEDULED FOURTEENTH MEETING HELD IN THE J. HAMILTON MAURICE ROOM, MEZZANINE FLOOR, TOWER D, IWFC, #1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN, JANUARY 24, 2018
Present were:
Ms. Marlene Mc Donald Chairman Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon Vice-Chairman Ms. Shamfa Cudjoe Member Mr. Avinash Singh Member Mr. Rodney Charles Member Ms. Anita Haynes Member
Mrs. Angelique Massiah Secretary Ms. Kimberly Mitchell Assistant Secretary Ms. Vahini Jainarine Legal Officer Ms. Katharina Gokool Graduate Research Assistant
Excused were:
Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh Member (Excused) Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member (Excused)
Also present were: Ministry of Trade and Industry Mr. Norris Herbert Permanent Secretary Ms. Trudy Lewis Senior Economist Ms. Dana Iles State Counsel III Mr. Kriyaa Balramsingh Economist II
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Ministry of National Security Ms. Vashti Shrikensingh-Jitman Permanent Secretary (Ag.) Ms. Charmaine Ghandi-Andrews Chief Immigration Officer (Ag.) Mr. Richard Lynch Deputy Director, International Affairs Unit Mr. Zeke Beharry International Affairs Coordinator, International Affairs Unit
PUBLIC HEARING WITH OFFICIALS FROM THE MINISTRY OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (MOTI), MINISTRY OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, LAND AND FISHERIES
6.1 The meeting resumed in public at 2:40 p.m. in the J. Hamilton Maurice Room.
6.2 The Chairman welcomed the officials and introductions were exchanged.
6.3 The Chairman reminded those present that the meeting sought to inquire into the regional integration and strengthening of the CARICOM Institution and outlined the objectives of the inquiry.
6.4 Detailed below are the issues/concerns raised and the responses which were proffered during the discussions with the invited officials:
Ministry of Trade and Industry
d. The different types of integration such as customs unions, free trade areas, and common markets; e. The participation of the MoTI in the Council for Economic Trade and Development (COTED) and its other sub-institutions; f. Trinidad and Tobago has been a key actor in the movement for regional integration and has been facilitating and encouraging external trade within its borders; g. Trinidad and Tobago was one of the first countries to adjust its common external tariff and has consistently made adjustments in line with policies and tariffs agreed at the regional level;
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h. Some of the challenges CARICOM countries face in facilitating regional integration include the adjustment of respective laws to implement agreed decisions and policies, and the contradiction of nationalism versus regionalism; i. The total cost of Trinidad and Tobago’s direct and indirect support to CARICOM is difficult to determine since the Ministry has not undertaken any such quantification, however, Trinidad and Tobago is a major beneficiary in the area of goods; j. Trinidad and Tobago contributes approximately 23% of its budget to the regional institutional arrangements; k. There are other areas in which Trinidad and Tobago can get involved in order to further regional integration; l. Trinidad and Tobago benefits from regional integration particularly in the economic aspect since much of Trinidad and Tobago’s trade exports and manufacturers trade heavily in the CARICOM region; m. The measures that can be taken to move Trinidad and Tobago to the next level in terms of strengthening its position in CARICOM and furthering regional integration; n. CARCICOM’s competitive edge has diminished significantly and there is need for CARICOM to treat with external competition; o. CARICOM’s failure to complete the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) provided a hiatus from greater external competition; p. The need for CARICOM countries to balance between national and regional interest to obtain the competitive edge; q. The percentage of Trinidad and Tobago’s trade regionally and outside the region; r. The percentage of Trinidad and Tobago’s exports to CARICOM as a percentage of total exports stood at 10.1 percent for 2016 while the percentage of Trinidad and Tobago’s total imports from CARICOM stood at 1.4 percent; s. Trinidad and Tobago’s efforts to trade with Guyana; t. The attractiveness of regional integration given the background of trade liberalisation; u. Since 2001, there have been some improvements in the area of services and the categories of skills as it concerns the CSME; v. The improvements/progress made with regards to the movement of people since the Treaty of Chaguaramas, 1973 and whether there is need to amend the document; w. The strategies directed at the youth to promote Regional Integration;
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x. Apart from tourism, the direct and indirect benefits of having direct flights from Trinidad and Tobago to Cuba; y. The exploration of the possibility of having Trinidad and Tobago as a transhipment area; z. Matters currently before the CCJ; and aa. The status of Trinidad and Tobago’s payments to regional groups such as CARICOM and CROSQ.
Ministry of National Security (MoNS)
bb. The MoNS is guided by the Conference of the Heads of Government, other organs of CARICOM as well as the Ministry of Foreign and CARICOM Affairs; cc. The regional security architecture through which common issues are addressed; dd. There are four regional security agencies namely, CARICOM Impacs and its sub-agencies, the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency, the Regional Security System, and the Caribbean Aviation, Safety and Security Oversight System; ee. Trinidad and Tobago is the Lead Government in CARICOM’s quasi Cabinet for Security; ff. The Council of Ministers with responsibility for crime and security reports to the lead Government with responsibility for crime and security; gg. The impact of deepening ties with CARICOM as it concerns regional integration and what it means for dealing with crime in Trinidad and Tobago; hh. Regional Integration facilitates the mobilisation of resources among different States to deal with common challenges. In this context, regional integration has allowed Trinidad and Tobago to deal with some challenges that are generated from outside of Trinidad and Tobago; ii. The success of regional integration is dependent upon the measures used to determine the level of success; jj. The costs associated with deportation. Trinidad and Tobago bears the cost of repatriation to the home country in instances where a deportee is unable to do so or where the persons has been convicted of a criminal offence; kk. The procedure applied in dealing with a deportee; ll. The length of detention is determined by a number of factors for example, the ability to identify persons, the length of time it takes to source a return ticket, and whether there is a need for escorts;
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mm. The number of deportee’s awaiting deportation fluctuates. However, as at January 24, 2018, the number stood at ninety (90) persons inclusive of both men and women; nn. The capacity of the detention centre is approximately one hundred and fifty (150) persons with a maximum potential of two hundred (200) persons; oo. The cost to keep detainees in detention is approximately three hundred dollars (TT$300) per day; pp. The effect of the cancellation of the OPVs as it concerns the drug trade and the scope of the long-range vessels; qq. The adjustments made by the MoNS to its national security policies to advance regional integration includes various initiatives such as being the first country to establish cyber security initiatives; rr. The non-discrimination of immigrants who enter Trinidad and Tobago by the Immigration Division; ss. The reason behind the influx of Venezuelans particularly in the Port of Spain and Chaguanas areas; tt. Venezuelan visitors are allowed to stay in Trinidad and Tobago for ninety (90) days without a visa provided that they meet the certain requirements; uu. In 2016, 39,209 Venezuelans legally entered Trinidad and Tobago and in 2017, 27,611 Venezuelan nationals arrived; vv. Before Haitians are allowed entry into Trinidad and Tobago, they must have a visa whereas Venezuelans do not require a visa for entry; ww. The lack of resources at the Immigration Division to determine the number of visitors who overstay; and xx. The need for a mechanism to monitor the length of stay of visitors.
Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries (MALF)
yy. The explanation for the negative balance of trade as it concerns agricultural produce; zz. The MALF’s plans to increase production and in turn facilitate an increased trade; aaa. The specific crops produced for trade are generally fruits and vegetables; bbb. The strategic initiatives pursued by the MALF to reverse the negative balance in trade, which includes training for farmers in marketing and agribusiness for both local consumption and export to CARICOM countries;
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ccc. The products in demand by the region include inter alia pineapples, watermelon, pawpaw corn, frozen fish fillet, chicken parts, pumpkin, bacon and ginger; ddd. The strategy utilised by the MALF to earn foreign exchange involves farmers indicating their produce for export through NAMDEVCO or through demand by a particular country or Member State which would indicate the produce it would like to import; eee. The Cross Border Initiative with Guyana is driven by the Citrus Growers Association where 200 out of 1000 acres of land was mobilised to grow citrus; fff. The MALF’s efforts to increase production levels to CARICOM includes training in Good Agricultural Practices (GAPs) through the National Marketing Development Company Limited (NAMDEVCO); ggg. The MALF’s role in enforcing GAPs and driving the process to increase production levels to CARICOM includes the development of standards with NAMDEVCO; hhh. Insecurity of land tenure, inadequate labour supply, high cost of production, limited use of grades and standards, lack of implementation of Good Agricultural Practices and praedial larceny are some of the issues affecting the low export of agricultural products; iii. The MALF has been producing Market Access Documents which provides detailed conditions to facilitate trade in a particular commodity and also provides basic information on the commodity; and jjj. The MALFs vision for playing a role in regional integration and CARICOM.
(For detailed responses provided by the officials of the Ministry of Trade and Industry, Ministry of National Security and the Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries please see the Verbatim Notes).
Requested Information
6.5 Further to the discussions, the Ministry of National Security was requested to provide the Committee with the following:
a. the effect of the cancellation of the OPVs in terms of the drug trade and the particular gap in terms of the statistics related to the cancellation; b. the scope of the long-range vessel in terms of the extent of traversing the waters; c. does the long-range vessel only traverse Trinidad and Tobago’s waters or the entire region; and
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d. the capabilities, success, status and next steps of the integrated radar systems.
ADJOURNMENT
7.1 The meeting was adjourned at 5:30 p.m.
I certify that these Minutes are true and correct.
Chairman
Secretary
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APPENDIX II VERBATIM NOTES
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VERBATIM NOTES OF THE THIRTEENTH OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HELD IN THE J. HAMILTON MAURICE ROOM, MEZZANINE FLOOR, TOWER D, PORT OF SPAIN, INTERNATIONAL WATERFRONT CENTRE, #1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN, ON WEDNESDAY, JUNE 07, 2017 AT 2.50 P.M. PRESENT Miss Marlene Mc Donald Chairman Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon Vice-Chairman Miss Melissa Ramkissoon Member Mr. Rodney Charles Member Mr. Rodger Samuel Member Mr. Avinash Singh Member Miss Shamfa Cudjoe Member
Mrs. Angelique Massiah Secretary Miss Kimberly Mitchell Assistant Secretary Miss Terriann Baker Parliamentary Intern Miss Vahini Jainarine Legal Officer
ABSENT Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh Member [Excused]
2.50 p.m.: Meeting resumed.
OFFICIALS OF THE MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AND CARICOM AFFAIRS Ms. Jennifer Marchand Director, Caricom and the Caribbean Affairs Division Mrs. Jennifer Daniel Permanent Secretary (Ag.) Ms. Jenny Thompson Deputy Director, Caricom and the Caribbean Affairs Division
Madam Chairman: Welcome all to this Thirteenth Meeting of the Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs. I welcome the officials from the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, also to our listening public. We are here this afternoon to examine and enquire into the regional integration and strengthening of the Caricom institution.
The meeting is being broadcast live on Parliament Channel 11, Parliament Radio 105.5 FM, and Parliament’s YouTube Channel ParlView. Members of the viewing and listening audience can send comments via email at Parl [email protected], or on our Facebook page at facebook.com/ttparliament or on twitter@ttparliament. Again, as I said, I want to welcome all the officials of the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, and I now invite the Permanent Secretary to introduce herself and her staff. [Introductions made by the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs]
Madam Chairman: Welcome. I am the Chairman, Marlene Mc Donald. I introduce my members from my right. [Introductions made by the members of the Committee]
Madam Chairman: Thank you very much. Let me just start by informing you and the viewing public that in your position paper which you presented to us, via the Secretariat, that you spoke about the Caricom’s Strategic Plan 2015—2019, and you have listed eight objectives of the plan, or enquiry. 2.55 p.m. 1. To investigate Caricom efforts to encourage regional integration; 2. To assess whether regional integration can feasibly occur with a particular focus on any successes thus far and any challenges; 3. To assess Trinidad and Tobago stance on regional integration; 4. To understand the current policies that facilitate regional integration; 5. To examine the efficiency and capacity of Caricom; 6. To determine Caricom’s plans and strategies for strengthening its organs and the institution as a whole; 7. To determine the challenges, successes and opportunities of Caricom; and
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8. To determine the extent to which Caricom has implemented any recommendation and the successes of such recommendations if any. These are the objectives which your Ministry has laid out and this would have emanated from your Strategic Plan 2015 to 2019. I now invite you, Mrs. Jennifer Daniel, Permanent Secretary, to give some opening remarks, please.
Mrs. Daniel: Thank you, Madam Chair. First off, I would indicate that the headings highlighted by you were in response to the questions provided to us by the Committee and not the items in the draft strategic plan of Caricom. So those are the responses in keeping with the headings provided by the JSC. I would want to add for the members of the Committee’s benefit that we were unable to go through—under those eight areas, there are substantial sub-questions and we were not able to respond to all of them. Some of them were interlinked so we found ourselves having to—that we would have covered the response in an earlier question. And in some cases, as you would no doubt understand, given that the scrutiny is being put on the Caricom institution, that there are some bits of information that we are not in possession of and, as such, we could not provide. So I need to share that very early.
Similarly, there were some questions that treated with responses of Member States and clearly, in those instances, we cannot speak to that either. Notwithstanding those concerns that we would have had and the challenges we would have had, to some extent, in treating with the request from the Committee, we have prepared the responses that we have provided to you and I would want to add that on behalf of the Ministry, we emphatically reaffirm the unequivocal support of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago for the institution of Caricom.
And in that regard, I take the opportunity to recall the hon. Prime Minister in his inaugural speech given to Caricom Heads at the 37th Regular Meeting of the Conference of Heads of Government in July 2016, among other things, he said: “The focus given to Caricom had also precipitated the change in nomenclature of the line Ministry with responsibility for foreign policy from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs.”
And we feel very strongly that that shows the commitment to Caricom, the on-going commitment to Caricom and, in that regard, notwithstanding the concerns that we shared, we are pleased to be here and available to share to the extent that we can. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, Madam PS. My first question though and I want to read something here and, out of that, we ask the question. This strategic plan, is there a Strategic Plan 2015—2019 at your Ministry right now?
Mrs. Daniel: The strategic plan referred to here is the strategic plan of Caricom, the Caricom organization. This is the reference here. The focus was on regional integration and Caricom and we provided the context of Caricom’s Strategic Plan 2015 to 2019.
Madam Chairman: Okay, thank you. I am glad you cleared that up. But tell me, have you all been working with this plan, in the implementation of this plan from where you sit at the Ministry?
Mrs. Daniel: Largely, the plan would be for the Secretariat of Caricom to implement but, of course, there would be implementation points for Member States to execute and to put in place and, to that extent, we, along with the rest of the Community, would be implementing.
Madam Chairman: Is there anything at all in that Strategic Plan 2015—2019 which you said belongs to the Caricom Secretariat? Is there anything at all that you can tell us that has happened that Trinidad and Tobago has implemented that is noteworthy?
Mrs. Daniel: That is very difficult to answer off the cuff but what I would say, Madam Chair, is that because a strategic plan is for a period and this period started in 2015 and ends in 2019 and given that the Caricom organization is not a recent phenomenon, it has been with us for some time, so that even in the context of its plan and the areas highlighted, a number of initiatives would be ongoing. So that it is difficult to speak to something that would have started and would have been completed. A lot of it is on-going work. Of course, I would take some time, as I indicated, to respond very specifically to your question of implementation at this point because it is—what?—two years into the plan, and particularly, since you are speaking to implementation by Trinidad and Tobago specifically, that would take some further consideration, Madam Chair.
Madam Chairman: I hear you, Madam PS. But what is my concern now is, as a Ministry, what are we doing to further,
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so to speak, the strengthening or the encouraging of regional integration? This topic has been and this issue has been around for quite some time. This Committee, the last time we met, we looked at all the different points of Caricom integration.
We looked at Carifta, we looked at Caricom, we looked at CSME and various approaches to bringing the Caribbean together and some of us were disappointed in that. What could we do, as a Committee, to advance regional integration? We understand that globalization is the one that forced Member States, the 15 States, to come together to sign this CSME agreement. You know, there is what you call economies of scale when you group together. What are we doing to push this, to push this agenda? Yes, I have read the vision statement of Caricom and it is quite, you know, it is quite—it says: It aims at fostering regional integration through transforming and advancing the work of the Community. This strategic plan is based on a vision of Caricom that is integrated, inclusive and resilient, driven by knowledge, excellence, innovation and productivity; a Community where every citizen is secured and has the opportunity to realize his or her potential with guaranteed human rights and social justice and contributes to and shares in its economic, social and cultural prosperity; a Community which can be a united force in the global arena. Lovely words. This is the vision of Caricom. How have we been performing in terms of what are we doing to push this vision, to make this vision a reality?
Mrs. Daniel: The Director will address the question, Madam Chair, but I would want to add that a fora like this, given that it is being aired, provides an opportunity, as well, to broadcast and to share, particularly in the context of the CSME. But I will ask Ms. Marchand to—
Madam Chairman: Thank you very much.
Ms. Marchand: Thank you, PS, and good afternoon everyone. Just to profess my remarks by saying, firstly, that the ultimate goal of the plan is the social and economic development of the Community and this goal essentially dovetails with the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas which is the constitutional document of the Community, where there is a particular article that speaks to issues related to social and economic development. So it deals with improved conditions for the people of Caricom, enhanced work opportunities, greater productivity and production and so on and so, I think that is important.
With respect to what Trinidad and Tobago has been doing regarding the strategic priorities that have been outlined, I wish to say that under the item which deals with strengthening the Caricom identity and spirit of Community, there is an item that refers to strengthening relationships among Caricom Member States, and it is a high priority for the current Government that Trinidad and Tobago seeks to re-invigorate its relationships with its other Caricom Member States and in so doing, it will, therefore, contribute, in no small way, towards the achievement of that particular priority.
I would also like to add that under the issue of social resilience, the matter of health and wellness is critical. This year, Madam Chair and members of the Committee, marks 10 years since Trinidad and Tobago hosted a special Summit of Caricom Heads that dealt with non-communicable diseases. So we are, in fact, referring to this year as Port of Spain plus 10 because the Heads had signed off on the Port of Spain Declaration. And, in fact, just a few weeks ago, our Minister of Health presented a strategic plan—Trinidad and Tobago’s strategic plan regarding NCDs at one of the hotels in Port of Spain where it sets out Trinidad and Tobago’s strategies in this particular area. So I think that we are well on our way regarding advancing initiatives for health and wellness.
On the issue of advancing human capital development, I am of the view that the Trinidad and Tobago Government policy does, indeed, accord great priority to the issue of skills, skills development among our youth, of course, in particular, but also skills development for the persons who are already in the workforce, as well as given our own economic circumstances at the moment, skills development for those who may have lost their jobs and are, therefore, looking for another job and require new skills in order so to do. So those were just the few comments I wanted to make on that. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Thank you. And I want to take off from something you had said, Director Marchand, when you spoke about the Government’s commitment to reinvigorating position and our role and our contribution to Caricom and, of course, I want to substantiate that with the fact that the Government’s policy is clearly enunciated, this is Trinidad and Tobago as a country, in the official policy framework and also in the draft national development strategy as well. But Caricom is like any other organization that is so dependent on the performance of the rest of the parts, it is not just about Trinidad and
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Tobago. And as we have seen, in older organizations, we have seen what has taken place with regard to Britain and Brexit and the whole question of the European Union and its strengths, and it is, of course, far older than Caricom. And so a lot depends on the commitment of the country and, as I have said, you have enunciated it and I am endorsing it now. But there must be challenges and there are meetings and you spoke about all of the strategies and it is at the various Caricom meetings that take place throughout the year that strategies are supported and we build the process, and that is where the work goes on, through the machinery of Caricom. Evidently, there are challenges and there must be, especially as there are all these disparate parts and so on.
I want to ask you about the challenges that Trinidad and Tobago has encountered and by your own very experiences going to meetings and coordinating even within Trinidad and Tobago, within the Ministries, because then again, it is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but you are coordinator of all of the Ministries because, as you said, there are several areas that are required to give attention in pushing the Caricom agenda forward. I want to speak to you as the coordinating Ministry, so to speak, as to the challenges that you find yourself in, both as country and as a Ministry.
Ms. Marchand: Okay. Thank you for the question. From the point of view of the Ministry with responsibility for oversight of Caribbean Community affairs within the context of the Government, there are certain challenges, yes. Certainly, it stems from the fact that there are some of our partners, stakeholders, who are more responsive than others with regard to the work of the Community because, as you would imagine, the Community is such that whenever meetings are coming or there are particular initiatives being undertaken, Trinidad and Tobago has to report. We have to report by specific deadlines and so we have to depend on other Ministries, other entities, to provide information to us so that we report on time. And so, the issue of getting information, details, in a timely manner can be challenging.
On the issue of preparing to participate in meetings, I think that is particularly important because we see ourselves within Caricom as a leader and clearly there are some strengths which we have as a country in terms of our economy based on our own natural endowments. Over the years, we have also been particularly active in Caricom and so, we have a position where we can be seen as the leader. However, I think it is important for us to always bear in mind that leadership is something which we must exercise and so when we go to meetings, it is essential that we prepare ourselves and prepare ourselves well to participate actively in the discussions. It means we must, therefore, have our positions properly prepared, we must be prepared to defend our positions when we get there as well. Now, of course, that means, as you said, coordinating a lot of work across diversified Ministries when it comes to attending meetings.
So I would say that from the point of view of the Ministry and, of course, from the point of view of the country, if we do that sort of work, that preparatory work to the best extent possible, then I think it makes us better prepared to defend our interest when we arrive at the meetings, and we would also be in a better position to persuade others around to our points of view. Because of course, when you have a discussion, a decision will have to be taken and we will have to be able to persuade others around to what our positions are. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: There was just one follow up. We spoke about coordinating positions from the Ministry and articulating positions as a country. What about from the public’s perspective. Is the public sufficiently aware? Is there sufficient communication from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs about Caricom? Where we are? How—you know, because it is a spirit, eh. The integration move is a spirit and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs must be the vanguard of this spirit in our country. I am asking the question: Are you interfacing enough? Are we consulting enough? Are we communicating, giving information and so on to the public?
Ms. Marchand: Thank you for the question. We, in the Ministry, at the moment, we do some outreach; our outreach with specific reference to the CSME. Our outreach efforts are focused on tertiary institutions because there is a lot of interest in the persons who study at those institutions with respect to the CSME and possibilities that lie within the CSME for them. And so, a lot of our outreach efforts are focused there.
I would say that, like anything else, there is room for improvement. I should also add that the Ministry has also tended to participate actively whenever there are public service week observances and usually when the division, as part of the Ministry presentation is present, we do get a lot of expressions of interest on the part of the public, but, of course, the public, as you said, may not be entirely fully aware of all of the details and all of the information that they generally should have or should know about Caricom. There are quite a lot of misperceptions out there so perhaps, the Ministry can do more
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in that area with respect to public awareness and advocacy and so on about Caricom. Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: I now want to pass you to the Chairman but I want to tell you I just feel a little bit more excited because I am a regionalist at heart but this spirit of regionalism is what I should exude from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and communications. A little bit more than outreach. Just a comment I am making. It is a spirit and if we are to go anywhere, you have to take us there but I will pass you on to the Chairman.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, Mrs. Gopee-Scoon. Mrs. Marchand, reading the document, I am of the firm view and I have been reading about this integration movement since I was a child and that was a long time ago and we still have not gotten it right. Could you tell me, has any consideration been given to the economic circumstances of, let us say, the smaller countries that make up Caricom? Because part of the problem, when I read, is that the bigger countries, we are all sovereign in our own rights, the bigger countries may not want to share—I do not know, I do not know what is the circumstance— but there seems to be sort of problem. It is 15 of us. There seems to be some sort of problem and the smaller countries are not getting or not getting their play in this whole thing. What do you think? What are we doing?
And I will tell you why I ask that question. I asked that question because in 2008, a Caricom Development Fund was set up in July of 2008 and it was operationalized by November, I believe, of 2008 and that particular fund, the objective of it, was to assist the smaller states in terms of to provide technical and financial assistance. Could you tell this Committee today how successful this has been?
Ms. Marchand: Thank you. Is it specifically to the fund or just the concept of the smaller—
Madam Chairman: The whole concept of the Caribbean Development Fund being established to assist the smaller countries. You see, we seem to have a problem. We always talk about challenges. There are so many challenges to Caribbean integration. We understand some of the challenges but what are we doing? This was one of the mechanisms that came into operation in 2008 and I suspect, would be member countries donating funds to the CDF and whatnot. What has being going on there? If you could enlighten us.
Ms. Marchand: Thank you, Madam Chair, again. Just to indicate that when you mentioned the issue of those who are smaller and perhaps weaker to a certain extent financially, and those who feel left out, I think that these kinds of perceptions and the kinds of challenges also exist in other similar regional integration organizations and that is those countries that are seen as those with the larger economies and more financially secure are sometimes misperceived as, perhaps, not as caring about those that are less endowed.
I wish to say, though, Madam Chair, that for Trinidad and Tobago, that has not been the case. I think from the start of our involvement in regional integration, even going back to the early 1960s, we have seen where the Heads of Government of Trinidad and Tobago are the Prime Ministers, continually expressed the need for special consideration to be accorded to the lesser developed countries in the region. That has tended to be an important part of our policy because we cannot have others look at regional integration as a system where there are winners and losers. We have to see it as a tide that is going to lift all boats and so we all have a stake in it.
And so, that is why when, for example, they were even looking at Carifta and Dr. Williams had appointed the late Mr. Kamaluddin Mohammed as the Minister responsible for West Indian affairs. He was very much interested in ensuring that Carifta involved all of the then Commonwealth Caribbean States, because even in the face of the failure of their federation, he recognized that economic integration is important for the region going forward. It is the only way where, I believe he said, you know, all of our strength is going to lie in our union and so that has continued to be an important aspect of our policy. 3.25 p.m.
With respect to the Caricom Development Fund, that is, as you had mentioned, it was a fund which essentially relates to—what are called in the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas—the disadvantaged countries. And so the purpose of the fund was essentially to provide support, financial and technical support, through what are called Country Assistance Programmes to those countries with respect to addressing any negative impact that may have been occasioned upon them as a result of the functioning of the CSME. So the fund is there. It is operational and it continues to do its work.
Madam Chairman: And would you say it is successful to date?
Ms. Marchand: I would say that it has been successful. I believe the fund is looking at its work in various cycles. Of
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course, you know, Rome was not built in a day, and so the work is being done and there are incremental improvements along the way.
Mr. Charles: Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to follow up the comments that are accurate—the accurate comments by Ms. Marchand—that even in regional organizations, like Evian, perceptions of winners and losers, the larger economies are seen as the main beneficiaries. In terms of Caricom, is the Ministry in a position to tell us what is the economic cost and benefits of Caricom? I speak to the Caribbean Development Bank. I know we put moneys there. The funding of Secretariat, I would imagine we are a major provider of funds. The petroleum fund, I know we assist in UWI and in CARPHA and other institutions.
If only to allay the fears of people in Trinidad who feel that this thing is a waste of time, if we could have a measure of how much do we spend, the taxpayer—how much does he spend and what benefits do we get in terms of trade and whatnot to see if we are in a net beneficial position which would argue the case more forcefully for us, or to help us when other countries say that we are the chief beneficiary and they are the main losers. Because you may very well find in supporting these various Caribbean institutions, we may be putting out much more than we are given credit for.
Mrs. Daniel: Madam Chair, we do not have a dollar and cents answer to the question. There is no comprehensive— because what is being spoken of would, by its very nature, be comprehensive encompassing regional institutions, various Ministries and Departments. So that the answer would be no. But I think the question, particularly at the end, brings me to the point I wanted to share at the end of the last discourse, and that is that when we speak of the advantages of one country over another, one country may see a lot of products from a particular country on their shelves, another country may see workers from various other Member State countries in their territory. So that it is, as Ms. Marchand indicated, give and take. There are areas where there would be benefits and there are benefits for the large countries as well as for the small countries also but, no, that is sort of very challenging to do, I would add. That sort of analysis we do not have. But what is clear is that if we have to account for the benefits, we would have to touch on all of the institutions and that in itself would be challenging.
Miss Ramkissoon: Thank you, Madam Chair. I am happy to learn that the Caricom Development Fund, the CDF, has been successful. Is there a policy or a measure in place to measure? How do you measure success in the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs?
Mrs. Daniel: The question is in respect of the fund or the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs?
Miss Ramkissoon: You can give it to me as the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, but we did measure the success of the fund, so if you want to tie in the both you can.
Mrs. Daniel: Let me speak for the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, because in terms of the fund, remember we had said at the beginning, part of our challenge is that we do not have the comprehensive view that the Secretariat would have. But, certainly, the Ministry, all other Ministries, there would be strategic objectives that are set and there are processes along the way. A strat plan is part of it.
There are annual plans and there are measures and determinants as to whether objectives have been arrived at or not, and all of these things are ongoing. So that there are systems in place, yes to measure specific things, but in terms of the plan, the CDF, I do not know that we will be in a position even so to do. There would be an extent to which I suppose we can attempt—I was about to say—to measure the benefits to Trinidad and Tobago, but even that would be contrary to the very intent of the CDF.
So, in response, the challenge is that we are being asked to treat with an area for which we will not have the information to be able to do the kind of informed analysis to give you the answer that you are speaking to.
Mr. Samuel: Good day. I want to ask a question based upon what Ms. Jennifer Marchand opened up when she talked about Caricom identity. What do you mean or that is a Caricom identity? And then I will have a follow question.
Ms. Marchand: What is that question?
Mr. Samuel: What is the Caricom identity?
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Ms. Marchand: Thank you. Thank you, Member, for the question. I think this would have been a reference made, a mention—I know that Minister Gopee-Scoon made a response some time ago about the spirit of the Community, and there is a section in the strategic plan that mentions Caribbean identity and the spirit of the Community as an important aspect which they believe needs to be strengthened.
The issue of Caricom identity is one with which the Community has been grappling. What has been mentioned is that the issue of what some call the Caribbean civilization is a concept which they believe should be taken on board by the Community. And going to Minister Gopee-Scoon statement about spirit, you know, if you speak about identity, you are essentially speaking about two faces of something. You have the visible aspect of it and the invisible aspect of it.
What will be visible about an identity, you would look at things like institutions and monuments. The invisible aspect of it will deal with your beliefs, your dreams and your desires. Those are invisible. And so we who are a part of this region we share certain commonalities. We had the issue of colonialism, the plantation society, which brought certain groups of persons here to this region, not just to Trinidad and Tobago, but to this region as a whole. We have been working towards forging integrated societies out of that historical experience in this region. We belong here. This is where we belong.
So yes we had the colonialism and the plantation society that is a part of our past. We who are here in the present, we also have to look forward. And so all of that is a part of our identity, which as the people who live in this Community, we have to really seek to promote a greater sense of belongingness among the various people in the region. I think that is essentially what is meant in the strategic plan about strengthening the Caribbean identity and spirit of Community. Thank you.
Mr. Samuel: So what you are saying is that it is something that we look forward to and it is not something that exists that is very clear across the region. I am saying that because there was a young law student from Jamaica, Mark Ramsey, who in his quest to look at forging a new Caribbean identity went back to one of the understudies and undersecretaries to the Secretary of State—to the British Secretary of State who, at that time, looked at the colonies and then began to declare that it is necessary that the colonies are secured machinery for greater unity and cooperation 100 years ago. He was saying that if you do not do that then you will not find ourselves having the impact that is necessary.
The young man says unless we adopt a new regional identity and engage in a passionate and concerted drive towards growth and development, our lack of identity will continue to hold us back. So do we really have an identity or is there a lack of identity?
Madam Chairman: Well, you know, before you all answer, I think it is very difficult—I think it is very difficult to answer that question. It is a very broad; very, very broad. I think that if we look at the vision statement as articulated here in this document, what this has done is to give you a sort of overall view of what they see in the Caribbean integration movement as to whether a person—you could look at whole Caribbean and say, what it is you want to paddle—what it is?—a Caricom identity. You understand? We are all in this together. Hold on. Allow me. We are all in this together, and I think that we might be getting into a sphere of talking about trying to articulate a position that I think might be beyond us.
In all our movements, from the 60s coming up, we have been trying as a region. We tried with Carifta and whatnot coming up. We have been trying for this particular identity. We have identified with each other, but there are challenges, and we are here today to look to see whether—with the Ministry, with this Committee—we could advance the integration movement.
So my question here is—I would like to pose this question—we know there are challenges. We have dealt with the identity problem, how many years and years and years—tell us, tell this group, what are your main challenges you all see in this Caribbean integration movement? What is stopping us? List three for us and let us see if we can deal with it.
Mrs. Daniel: I will start, but I will not attempt to list three. I would say, first of all, that in terms of the Caribbean identity, it is not something that is futuristic. I think it is here. The reality is to extent. Yes, it is with us and we have regional institutions. It would be almost unjust to ask the Caricom Secretariat or to focus on Caricom. We have regional institutions. We have cricket, we have the University of the West Indies—
Madam Chairman: We have LIAT.
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Mrs. Daniel: Yes, Caribbean Airlines. Now, the reality—and I shared before—it is the challenge that faces every regional institution and it is the fact that you are bringing together individual sovereign states that have their own interest and areas of focus, and you are bringing that into a context where you have the objectives of the whole, and that I think is a starting point that can be challenging.
And even as I spoke of UWI, as an institution—and forgive me, I am probably speaking from the point of view of Jennifer Daniel more than the Ministry, and I think it is because the question leads us that way. The University of the West Indies as an institution that brought persons together because individual States have been doing their individual university- type arrangements, it is a means of our losing the ability that we had once upon a time to come together.
So that there was a particular era when all of the persons in the legal fraternity knew one another because they were at school together. Persons who did engineering, medicine. So I am saying that because the regional institutions were probably not able to carry the burden of each individual territory and where they saw their needs were, there was the need to develop local institutions that in a way may have affected our ability to have that “regionalness”. So, my first point, you asked for three, it would be the demands or the needs of the individual state viz-a-viz the demands and the needs of the whole, that big challenge. That is major. In fact, that probably overrides almost everything.
Having said that and I am here taking up the charge and the challenge issued by Minister Gopee-Scoon, there is a passion. There is the belief in regionalness. In fact, if I can share with you, our response to the questions we got, we kept saying that these questions are treating integration as a futuristic thing, and we had a problem with that, quite frankly, because we kept saying it is treating it as though it is something to be achieved, it is something way off and we are saying it is with us. We are saying that is how we are feeling. This is an honest sharing. This is what we went through coming up with responses that it is with us. As you are saying, Chair, there is the need for improvement, but it is not as though it is a goal out there we are not attaining. We have attained, we need to do more.
Miss Cudjoe: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I have been trying to get your eyes. Good afternoon. I have a couple concerns and I am glad that the Permanent Secretary would have raised the matter of institutions. Now, in these trying economic times where across the region we are all facing financial challenges, would it not be a more appropriate time for us to come together as it relates to the operation of institutions? I will give you, for example, you go to Belgium or to Switzerland and different countries have their own offices. Yes, we all have our identity. Even down to the OECS have started separating themselves on that level. Would it not be better for us to come together and have a Caricom Secretariat or something of that sort in some of these overseas destinations?
I want to speak to a couple other matters not that I have the right one. Caricom and the Caricom Treaty of Chaguaramas: Sometimes I like to call a toothless dog, because we are building this whole sense of regionalism on an old charter and old treaty that I think needs revision I want to know what is your opinion on that because there are really no penalties or no real penalties for stepping out or breaking rules of these arrangements, and I think that has a role to play, a negative impact on our regionalism. If we have, for instance, in the treaty an obligation to trade with each other or to conduct a certain type of business together, and then when you jump out of that there is no real penalty then that must have some kind of impact on our integration. Maybe you can tell me better.
Now, students exchange programmes. The University of the West Indies plays a critical role in promoting that relationship or that sense of Caribbeaness and the European Union, the countries of the European Union used students exchange programmes to help to build interpersonal relationships between the different countries. I see South East Asia now doing the same thing, with the A-S-E-A-N regional platform that they have. So other than UWI—I would not call UWI a programme—do we with any student exchange programmes within the region or any programmes to foster exchange and building that kind of relationship?
My other point, I saw when I was a little younger—I do not remember the year—when we had the 20/20 cricket competition, people were island hopping and it was so easy to move throughout the Caribbean region. We would have made different arrangements as it relates to immigration to allow that free flow of movement throughout the Caribbean. We would have even adjusted our immigration cards when you enter each country to accommodate the 20/20 cricket. So you saw cricket and sport brought the Caribbean together, and soon after 20/20 cricket ended, we were back to our old way of doing things. Why is it so difficult to adopt that 20/20 cricket arrangement on a more long term or even permanent way?
Another item is—my final I should say—tourism being a major economic driver for most of the countries in the region, and now playing a more profound role or front and centre stage, we are working on developing tourism in Trinidad
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and Tobago to take in a more central role. How do you see yourself or the different overseas mission under the Ministry of Caricom and Foreign Affairs? How could we build a stronger relationship? How do you see yourself being at that first point of contact out there at the different overseas mission in promoting tourism for Trinidad and Tobago? So those are about five matters, if you could assist me. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: And I know you are going to be brief, Madam PS.
Mrs. Daniel: Thank you. So in terms of the first one, the challenges, the financial challenges, I would repeat what people are saying a lot now: do not waste a good recession, and there would be the need to come together. The example you raised though are challenges. If we look at the concept of, let us say, a number of countries sharing an embassy or having one fixed place, we have competing products or we are competing because we have the same product. So to use your last example, tourism, you are basically saying, come together and unless what we would be selling is island hopping that you do not come to one place, you come to a number of.
There is the challenge of countries of competition, so that is a challenge, I would say it is not that it is not being discussed. I know at least in one of our missions, a very far away one that is being discussed at this time. The embassies out there are actually engaged in discussions. Of course, we wait to see the fruit of it if it would arrive at something tangible.
The Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas, there is a Revised Treaty, 2002. I am seeing here there is an OECS mission in Brussels, but you mentioned that that is breaking up even as we speak.
Miss Cudjoe: Let me draw a more recent example. When we negotiated the EPA with Europe, we faced Europe or we approached Europe as one body, as one trade bloc, Cariforum, but to negotiate the agreement, each country had its own mission or office in Geneva. When we are going out on missions of that nature where cost could be reduced—where we are going out as one Caribbean—can we rent an office or operate out of the same office when we are trading or interacting with the other countries as one region or a bloc? That is just a recent example.
Now, let me place on the record too, it is difficult to ask you to account for everybody because as the old people say, one hand cannot clap or, as we say, it takes two to tangle. Trinidad and Tobago could only do its part and everybody else has to join in also. So I understand the challenge you are facing.
Ms. Marchand: Thank you. I will just speak to the issue that the member raised on what in Caricom we generally called joint representation, externally in terms of the region. Now, there are a couple different modalities in which that can occur. So that Member States may decide that they would all share the same building, but there are separate offices in one building, and so that rent cost will be shared among all of the occupiers which will make it cheaper per Member State rather than each Member State has its separate premises. So that is one option that may be pursued in certain capitals.
There is another option which the Permanent Secretary was referring to where, for example, a decision may be made just to have one Caricom mission in a particular country that will represent the collective. In that case, as she was saying, if the staff—the staff are likely to come from different countries, so you may have an Ambassador from one particular Member State, other members of staff may be two or three from different member states as well—and to the extent that those persons also actively market a Member State that is not their own will remain an issue for some persons.
What I also wish to add is that under the Vienna Convention and Diplomatic Relations it will also be for what is called the receiving State to accept such an arrangement that this particular mission or person will essentially be representing countries of which that person is not a citizen. And so I just wanted to point out that there are essentially different options when we look at the issue of joint representation. But it has been tried in the past in the region. It has met with some success and there are some areas where it has essentially fallen off. Thank you. 3.55 p.m.
Mrs. Daniel: To move on, student exchange programmes, I think the Ministry of Education would really need to speak to that. Having been there, though, for some time, I would hasten to add that an often-overlooked, powerful, regional integration entity is the CXC. It is powerful because you bring together the Caribbean in terms of the education system. And how the exams are set, and everything, there could be the ability to relate and to pull us together. So the CXC—but I cannot answer in terms of whether there are student exchange programmes. Yes? Movement throughout the region, you mentioned it happening for 2020, and I imagine it was a business decision, because you had a ready market. So, the challenge will always be, would it be worth our while to go from here to there, and so on.
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But linked to that, I know that out of Caricom there is supposed to be a focus on a multilateral air services agreement, and that is something that—it is one of the areas that needs to be advanced and progressed. And, I think, Ms. Marchand has an—but before I pass you on to Ms. Marchand, in terms of the final point, leveraging our missions, it is something that the attention is being given to. As it is now, every time we have heads of mission going out there is that interface with the various line Ministries to ensure that they are brought on board and they know exactly what. But we do recognize that there needs to be continuing work at the level, and we recognize, as well, that the push has to come not from out there, but from within the Ministry facilitating that, and we are looking at that.
Madam Chairman: Okay, thank you. PS, I just want to ask a follow-up question, because I am still not clear in my mind. You see, I came here this evening for answers, you know, with respect to what is taking so long. Why can we not just, you know, break this bogey? These are the challenges, let us face it, you know, as a country, as a region. This issue about free movement, I know quite a bit of work has been done in various Caricom countries with respect to free movement, but you are still getting a sense that it is not as free as we think it is. Is that one of the challenges we are facing in the Caribbean? So it may have some connection to what Mr. Samuel thinks about this Caribbean identity that people are not feeling as if they are one, because there is not this freedom of movement within the Caribbean. What are the challenges, you see, as the Ministry with respect to this freedom of movement?
Ms. Thompson: Thank you, Madam Chair, members. First to begin, if we are looking at challenges we identify that a lot of problems, generally speaking, account back to what the Permanent Secretary would have mentioned earlier in terms of the fact that as you have 15 independent sovereign States trying to get a harmonization of policies, of legislation, can be quite trying and difficult to exercise. Grappling with that is some of what we are facing now.
In terms of the various categories, you do have issues in terms of the freedom of movement to the freedom of capital, and other aspects which takes some time for Member States to be able to be responsive towards. If we look at, for example, the freedom of movement regime, there is a lack of an overarching regional guide to frame and form a standardized basis for the implementation of the regime. That is one of the aspects that we even here ourselves have been looking at, trying to address this whole issue of standardization. We have found that when we look at some of the freedom of movement of persons, the reality is that you do find, when we are looking at the CSME, instances where fraud is prevalent.
Madam Chairman: Ma’am, when you say fraud is prevalent, what do you mean?
Ms. Thompson: Persons are presenting, for example, fraudulent skill certificates when they are seeking to apply; when making their applications for skill certificates. You are seeing persons who do not have the requisite qualifications or experiences, and are trying to circumvent that by trying to obtain certain certificates by other means which are not—
Madam Chairman: Fake papers. Like Mr. Trump’s fake news, fake papers.
Ms. Thompson: And you also have instances where persons with degrees from institutions that are not accredited obtain skills from other Member States, et cetera. There are certain sensitivities as well that we must take into consideration when we are looking at these issues and challenges, and, that, from our perspective, is what we are trying to grapple with. Trinidad and Tobago is currently in the process of amending its Immigration (Caribbean Community Skilled Nationals) Act, and it will seek to try and deal with some of the issues, including the categories to which reference might have been made earlier.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Thompson. So, Mr. Thompson, so what you are saying in a nutshell is that part of the challenge that we face is that in this freedom of movement, as you said, there is an element of fraud where people are actually falsifying their documents to enter different Caricom countries, is that it?
Ms. Thompson: I should say that it exists. It exists. It would probably be not fully correct to say, prevalent, but it does exist.
Madam Chairman: Yes. And we too in Trinidad and Tobago, have we discovered anything, you know, like that in our jurisdiction where people are trying to get into Trinidad and Tobago?
Ms. Thompson: Yes, that is what we are saying, it has been noted.
Madam Chairman: And what are we doing, just to the viewing public, what are we doing to deal with that situation?—
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because it presents now a challenge in going forward. So what are we doing to deal with it? Ms. Thompson: Well, at the moment, we work very closely with our other agencies, particularly with our—
Madam Chairman: National Security.
Ms. Thompson: Yes, National Security, and, in particular, with our immigration officials. There are committees which are established where they meet and they discuss those issues, and look to find ways how we can address those issues. So those committees meet regularly, and those issues are brought to the front. Of course, as well, other agencies, security agencies would be involved.
Madam Chairman: Thank you. So I could understand why practices like that, you know, where they exist, can thwart, so to speak, the freedom of movement. Yes? Mr. Charles.
Mr. Charles: Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Forgive me for being a pessimist, right, 1958 I flew a flag. I was in San Fernando Government School and we went to Skinner Park, and it was the Federation flag, and they were talking, Lord Hailes and Lady Hailes, and we were talking integration. I spent my whole life, 50 years since that—60 years, and we got the talk, the ups and downs about Caricom. I would like to know, for example, what is the vision of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs with respect to this Caricom enterprise? If all the false certificates, and whatnot, were to be resolved, what does Trinidad and Tobago see as the ideal integration entity?
And I say that, for example, because I think we have to be honest and face the facts, for example, we talk about freedom of movement. Is Trinidad and Tobago—and I am asking—in our vision are we prepared, if all the documents are correct, and if all the skills, people in the Caricom are prepared to come to Trinidad, are we prepared to receive them, assuming all these things are put in place? So I am trying to find out whether it is just incremental, we talk, or whether there is an ideal that at some point in time all of us will be—there would be free movement, we will share a cow, we could have a stock exchange where we could invest in each other’s enterprises, et cetera and et cetera. So I am speaking to the vision, where are we now, where would we want to go, and how could all of us be incorporated in this exercise of passion to bring into being this entity that we envisage.
Mrs. Daniel: I will start the ball rolling, my two supporters will help. My view is that there is not a single goal that you would arrive at, at any point in time. It is evolving. It is continuous. It is moving. I am sorry to hear that you are a pessimist, but maybe you are a pessimist because you worked out how it would happen and it did not happen that way. But I think there are things that are happening, and we need to recognize that there would have been movements in some areas, and that where there are deficiencies we are seeking to bring improvements and to continue the process moving forward.
We must remember that when we talk about the free movement, we receive applications not only from persons from outside of Trinidad and Tobago, our nationals apply for the certificates as well, and there is a movement. We need to recognize that, it is not a one-way flow. And, just that, we need to recognize that that is happening and that there are benefits in all of the various areas for, certainly—I want to keep up the regional stance, but at this point I am saying that for Trinidad and Tobago there are definite and clear benefits that we have been maximizing.
Mr. Charles: Unqualified benefits. And just, in terms of the pessimism, the calypsonians, Black Stalin, you understand, why we cannot unite 7 million, and—
Mrs. Daniel: He also said the “Caribbean man”. [Laughter]
Mr. Charles:—the “Caribbean man”, and also Sparrow, federation.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Minister, can I?
Madam Chairman: Sure, go ahead.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Can I just jump in, because you said that you can be a bit of a pessimist and we spoke about—all evening we are talking about challenges and challenges, and so on, but there have been so many gains. And Minister Cudjoe spoke to it, Member Cudjoe, spoke about the gains made in terms of sport and tourism. And, of course, we are hosting Carifesta 2019; it is going to be the greatest Carifesta ever and we are going to be all excited, and I am sure your Ministry has a pivotal role to play, and so on, but I speak to success because this country has benefited, and has benefited for a
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number of years from this single market by virtue of our manufacturing sector in terms of trade. Mr. Charles: It is quantified?
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: It is quantified.
Madam Chairman: It is.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: And you were in Government, and if you look at the figures, the figures are there. It is our single, outside of energy products, the region is our single largest market, and that is by no small measure, and this is the success of the Caribbean Single Market. Now, we have not achieved everything, and we have a long way to go in terms of the economy and it is because we are at various places as countries, but that single market, we have achieved great success. And when it was contemplated, it was contemplated in recognition of a more globalized economy, and the challenges that we will all face as businesses and persons in terms of our survival out there, making sure that our goods and services are competitive enough to be able to survive in international markets.
And even in our own territories as well, because you do have movement of goods coming inside of our territories as well. One of the—and I will tell you, and I will speak to the current Government’s position on it as well, and this is the reason why our Government has been so much in support of the CCJ, the Caribbean Court of Justice, and it is clearly articulated in our official framework, and also in the draft national development strategy as well. And it is because the CCJ has a role to play in the protection of all of us who benefit under the Caribbean Single Market and Economy, as far as we have benefited so far. So all of our goods, all of our providers of goods and services, and all of us who are able to live and work and trade, et cetera, within the region, they are there to protect us, and they are there to assume custody of the rights of all of the participating states and nationals, and so on. So maybe, PS, you can speak to the role of the CCJ in terms of the success of the CSME.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, but before PS could answer, I want to add to what the Minister has just said. Now, Mr. Charles asked the PS a short while ago about what is the vision, what is that vision for the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, and whatnot. You know, do you have your own plan, how you intend to go about this; and my take on this, and PS correct me if I am wrong, I do not know whether the Ministry, or any Ministry, would have a separate plan on their own. You must operate within a national development plan, the country, and, therefore, the national development plan would speak to what would be the goals and objectives of the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs.
And, therefore, I want to answer Mr. Charles that the PS would look at her national development plan, as articulated, right, which is for the whole country, and, of course, she can impart, as they did here, superimpose, with respect to Caricom, the vision of Caricom once it is in tandem with the national development plan. So I do not think—PS, correct me if I am wrong or if I am right, you know, because it has been placed here, it has been placed in the public domain, and, you know, I do not want people to leave here with the feeling that you somehow have this plan, and you somehow have a plan on your own. Your plan is not on your own. Your plan is part of the national development plan of Trinidad and Tobago.
Mr. Charles: Madam Chair, with respect, let the Permanent Secretary answer the question. What is the vision of Caricom that her Ministry if pursuing? If you do not have a vision then we do not know where we are going. And all I want to know, as a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago is, what is the grand vision in terms of our foreign policy in the context of our ambitions and our vision for Caricom? That is a simple question.
Mrs. Daniel: As Chair has indicated, it is consistent with what has been articulated in the Government’s national plan, and what is also echoed in the 2030 plan as well. So that the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs, consistent with those two plans, we are working, in fact, we have a draft. We had prepared a draft strategic plan, and we are at the point of reviewing to ensure that it lines up with the 2030 document at this point.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, PS.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: I just would like you to go back to the CCJ, how it can add to the success of the economy, and of the goals of the—the CSME goal.
Ms. Marchand: Thank you, member, for the question. The CCJ is regarded as the guardian of the Revised Treaty of Chaguaramas. It has, in that particular jurisdiction, which is called the original jurisdiction, it is responsible for addressing,
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wherever there are viewed to be negative effects, some of the things that have been negatively impacted by the operations of the CSME, and they regard that as being contrary to what is contained in the Revised Treaty. That person or entity can trigger the mechanism and bring the matter before the CCJ for its consideration and judgment.
Now, with the CCJ, it is interesting in that, I believe, there are three entities who can bring a matter before the court. It can be a member state, it can be a company, and it can also be a private citizen. So all three can decide to bring a matter through the court for consideration, and it is in that particular instance, with respect to private citizen where the famous judgement in the Shanique Myrie decision came about, because she was in fact a private citizen of Jamaica. Just to also add on that, because there was some mention of the pessimism, and so, earlier, I think we must also bear in mind, and perhaps this is where we need to do more work in terms of public education. The fact is that every day in this region hundreds of thousands of persons move, and most persons move without any problems. It is whenever there are very few instances that, you know, we get the hand-wringing, and there are all these criticisms that, you know, nothing is working, and so on. But I think we must always bear in mind that, by and large, people who move freely really do not encounter a lot of problems at all. So there is in fact more success than failure. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, Ms. Marchand. So, Ms. Marchand, would you say that, overall, that the establishment of the CCJ would ensure the integrity, as well as, you know, the integrity and the confidence of the CSME today in the Caribbean?
Mr. Charles: And if you are doing that, answer that in the context of the fact that only three Caribbean jurisdictions— Guyana, Barbados and Belize—have the CCJ as the final appellate court. And I am reading from a report here in the Privy Council in the 21st Century.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: What is the date on that?
Mr. Charles: It is dated January 02, 2017.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: It is not up-to-date.
Ms. Marchand: Okay, thank you. Just to say that the CCJ has two jurisdictions, the original jurisdiction deals with adjudication on matters relevant to the SCME, and on that matter those Member States that participate within the CSME, those who have ratified the Revised Treaty, the original jurisdiction pertains to them. What the member is referring to, is making reference to, there is the appellate jurisdiction of the court, where the court is the final court of appeal for that particular jurisdiction. I also wish to mention though that Dominica has joined as one of those States where the CCJ is now the final Court of Appeal. But what Minister Gopee-Scoon had referred to is the original jurisdiction, and they have issued judgments—
Mr. Charles: So, therefore, as it stands, the CCJ determines cases with respect to the CSME? That is what you are saying?
Ms. Marchand: Yes, member, that is what I am saying, and so Trinidad and Tobago, it can issue judgments in respect of Trinidad and Tobago on matters pertaining to the CSME.
Mr. Charles: So, therefore, as it stands, the CCJ, in its current configuration, handles all the problems with respect to the CSME. And, therefore, the question does not arise in terms of—
Madam Chairman: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Charles, we are ad idem on this, and Ms. Marchand you have clarified it. And the appellate side of it, we will leave it for another debate. Miss Ramkissoon.
Miss Ramkissoon: Thank you, Madam Chair. Unfortunately, we had drifted from this topic; however, I would still like to ask the Permanent Secretary, if she can share with this Committee, how many certificates, or fraudulent certificates have been received by the Ministry to date?—if you have that information.
Mrs. Daniel: We do not have a figure for you. So we do not have that information.
Miss Ramkissoon: Would you like to share it with us at a later date? Would you like to provide the answer later?
Mrs. Daniel: The answer can be provided.
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Miss Ramkissoon: Okay, thank you. I would like to touch on another aspect, in relation to Trinidad and Tobago’s stance on regional integration. We have learnt from your submission that Trinidad and Tobago has taken a leadership role in undertaking advocacy in respect of several areas of importance to the region. I would like to know, to date, if you can share some of the areas that we, Trinidad and Tobago, has undertaken as in the terms of the leadership role you spoke about in this response. Thank you.
Ms. Thompson: Thank you, member. If I could just briefly just state at least three of them, we are looking right now at correspondent banking and de-risking, as well as regional security issues, and the whole idea of the Caribbean being unfairly labelled as tax havens, for example. Those are three that I can speak to.
Miss Ramkissoon: Can you share when these have been started and what stage it is at?
Ms. Thompson: They are ongoing. What happens is that with our bilateral partners, particularly those of whom have an active voice in multilateral fora, at a high level, we, bilaterally, will make those kinds of advocacy efforts, and ask for them to lobby on our behalf, ask for them to look at Trinidad and Tobago, as well as the region’s position, which would be in tandem.
Miss Ramkissoon: I would like to learn more about these areas that we are involved in directly as it relates to our bilateral partners, and if you can share it with the Committee, that response, at a later time, it would be appreciated.
Ms. Thompson: Yes. Some of these issues, because of the sensitivities I would not be able to go into detail. As I said, regional security is one of—in the main. That is a very major one, and we would recall that the Prime Minister is the lead head for regional security in the quasi Cabinet of Caricom, and, as such, he plays, in particular, a leadership role in respect of regional security.
Miss Ramkissoon: Is that part of the Caricom implementation agency for crime and security?
Ms. Thompson: Caricom IMPACS is an institution of the Community.
Miss Ramkissoon: In your submission you shared one of the ways that Trinidad and Tobago can continue to be part of this regional contribution, and you stated that we have been committed to meeting of financial contributions, can you share what that financial contribution looks like?
Mrs. Daniel: In terms of what, if I may ask?
Miss Ramkissoon: In terms of your submission on number 3, part 3. 4.25 p.m.
Mrs. Daniel: I am asking for clarification. You would like to know what Trinidad and Tobago’s contribution looks like.
Miss Ramkissoon: In terms of your commitment in meeting every—I do not know if this is an annual something that you make, but you have stated that you are committed to making a financial contribution. I am not sure to what specifically, because the answer did not say, and that is what I am probably asking. What is this financial contribution that you are speaking of, is it something annually, is it something you are contributing to? What is it? Because in response to your answer, is what has Trinidad and Tobago done to advance regional integration, and this is one of the responses given.
Mrs. Daniel: It simply speaks to our contribution. All of the Member States are contributing territories and pay towards the life and the sustenance and the upkeep of Caricom, as well as funds that may be sourced through, let us say, the EU and so on. So we were simply making the statement that we are committed, notwithstanding our challenging financial circumstances, to meeting our financial commitment.
Miss Ramkissoon: I am not sure if this was in relation to the EU Fund, because in another submission you did speak about the EU Fund, so this gave an impression that this was something different.
Mrs. Daniel: Unless you would like to refer to exactly where, because maybe it is a case again of the overlapping, because we may have mentioned one item in two places. We may have made mention of one item in two places if the answer was
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relevant. Miss Ramkissoon: No problem. On page 3, No. 3, part 3, it goes on to say: This country has actively participated in meetings of the various organs of the Community and has remained committed to meeting its financial contributions.
This is in response to what has Trinidad and Tobago done to advance regional integration.
Mr. Singh: Chair, if I could just add some light into that point. I think what Miss Ramkissoon is probably referring to is probably the contribution as a Government in terms of Caricom contribution as outlined in budget documents annually, probably that figure, but that figure is available on the budget documents. If that seeks to clarify.
Miss Ramkissoon: I do not know if that is what you were alluding to.
Mrs. Daniel: It is our contribution we were referring to, yes.
Madam Chairman: I get the impression that there are different little units in Caricom, for example like the CDF. I am sure the CDF would be inside of there too as an organ of Caricom—not so?—as part of your financial contributions?
Mrs. Daniel: Yes.
Madam Chairman: If we are saying this country has actively participated in meetings, we are saying how do we Trinidad and Tobago’s stance on regional integration? I think part of it is—not so?
Mrs. Daniel: Maybe it will be utilized in different ways by the organization. So that I do not recall that the CDF is a separate line item. I am not certain. I really cannot speak to that.
Madam Chairman: Well, I was just trying to help the Senator.
Mr. Singh: Chair, through you. In the past I have only heard about instances—and this is just going back to the point of free movement in the Caribbean—where persons try to enter a country with documentation that is falsified. My question is really, is this information made available to Caricom to the Caricom Secretariat so that measures could be put in place to strengthen the whole point about members, whether it be Trinidad and Tobago citizens going abroad or Caricom members coming to Trinidad. Is any of this information collated and reported to the Caricom Secretariat?
Mrs. Daniel: We act on the basis of occurrences. In the event that the Secretariat requests information on a particular matter, it would be provided, but ordinarily the information is not in the way you are asking, fed back to the Secretariat, rather we focus on the action that we would need to take and the measure we would need to put in place.
Mr. Singh: Just out of clarification, I ask it in the backdrop of a lot of public allegations where persons are not allowed in the country, and I feel this information supplied to the Committee today that there are matters where evidence is supplied of falsified documents, I think that would shed some light in terms of the perception that persons are barred from coming into the country that make up Caricom. So I just thought it was necessary to make that point, that there is sufficient evidence as said by your deputy personnel. So that the public perception out there is that Trinidad and Tobago does not just act “vaille-que-vaille” to just bar persons, we have sufficient grounds. I just wanted to make that point. Thank you.
Mrs. Daniel: Can I just say that I think we are probably combining two issues. The reference here was to persons applying for certification, and what you are speaking about would more pertain to persons entering the country. But I think the overriding message we want to leave is that relative to the persons who gain free access and of whom we do not hear, that the instances when there are problems are relatively few compared, so that we do not want to signal or to send the message that—the main issue is that there are very few instances of persons being debarred as compared to persons gaining free access.
Miss Ramkissoon: Madam Chair, before you wrap up, I do have one final question. In relation to the strategic plan for the Caricom 2015 to 2019, I know you had mentioned earlier that you were able to implement the NCDA that was started in 2007. I want to know, are you aware if any of the recommendations from that report have been implemented and what is the outcome basically?
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Ms. Marchand: Thank you. I would appreciate if the member could repeat the question, please. Please identify which report.
Miss Ramkissoon: I am alluding to the discussion we had earlier about the Caricom Strategic Plan 2015 to 2019. Two years have passed and one of the items we have mentioned as a member State we were implementing the NCDA, which would have been launched in 2007, which is the tenth year anniversary. Is there a report that was done and, if so, are there recommendations coming out of it and, if so, have we implemented any and, if we have, what is the outcome of that?
Ms. Marchand: Thank you for repeating the question. Just to say that when I made the remarks earlier about our new strategic plan on non-communicable diseases, is that when we hosted the summit in 2007 there were certain regional initiatives that had been agreed, and so, for example, there were certain regional initiatives that had been agreed. For example, one of them is every September we have Caribbean Wellness Day. We have created programmes such as CDAP and so on in relation to what some people refer to as an epidemic of non-communicable diseases in the country: diabetes, cardiovascular problems and so on.
In the current strategic plan, Caricom’s Strategic Plan 2015 to 2019 under the heading “Social Resilience”, it relates to human and social development, and it is under that particular rubric that there is an item which refers to advancing initiatives for health and wellness. So that while in 2007 when we agreed to that declaration, and, in 2011, for example, there was a high level meeting on NCDs at the United Nations in New York and there has been continuous work in that area. What I was referring to is that in the current version of the strategic plan, the item appears and Trinidad and Tobago in terms of its own national policy recently launched a strategic plan with respect to NCDs. I believe it goes up to 2021 or something like that, but I was linking our own national efforts with what is contained in the Caricom Strategic Plan, that is what I was doing. So I was not referring to an actual report. What the Minister presented, approximately a month ago, what he launched was Trinidad and Tobago’s national strategy.
Miss Ramkissoon: Thank you for clearing that up. Is it that we have different approaches or different strategies that the Ministry is implementing to achieve Caricom’s goals such as building an economic resilience, we have a different strategy to deal with that, our environment resistance, or is it that the other Ministries are dealing with this?
Ms. Marchand: Yes, member, that is exactly it. So there are some areas of the plan where depending on the issue it is the particular line Ministry that will actually be the implementing arm for that particular issue.
Miss Ramkissoon: And what role do you play? Is it that you have an overarching role now in the Ministry that you can tie in with the other Caricom States? What is the role that you would play?
Ms. Marchand: What the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs does is we have general oversight of all Caricom issues that pertain to Trinidad and Tobago. So that we do coordination with the other Ministries, and, as Minister Gopee-Scoon said earlier, in terms of when we prepare for meetings. So we have a general coordinating role and that oversight function.
Miss Ramkissoon: How would a Minister learn of these recommendations, is it that you do an annual report and submit to Cabinet? How would you share what you have learned with all the Ministries, because everyone would have their different strategy and plan?
Madam Chairman: They share it with their Minister. They have a line Minister.
Mrs. Daniel: Can we explain that, for instance, COTED, the trade organ within Caricom, the primary Ministries, in fact, the Ministry of Trade and Industry, so that the representatives of that Ministry would take the leading role. Now, the Ministry of Foreign and Caricom Affairs would be working with them, but they are the lead, and that plays out as the example was shared in terms of health. It would be a similar thing. So that the line Ministry, it is not a case of our having to inform, it is their work that they are doing and we are working with them.
Miss Ramkissoon: Okay, thank you.
Madam Chairman: PS, this is the age of technology and I have two questions sent in to us. First question came online: How does the Ministry keep the diaspora informed of issues in Trinidad, re, the transfer of skills and expertise gained in the First World countries which can benefit Trinbago? How do you keep the diaspora informed of issues in Trinidad and Tobago, re, the transfer of skills and expertise, gained in the First World countries which can benefit Trinbago?
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Mrs. Daniel: Again, I would say that I am happy that we are here because we have free advertising on television no less. We are currently working on rolling out in a more forceful way our registration for citizens abroad, the RSNE, and it is a very useful tool. Part of it is what the man in the street can relate to. You have persons who are travelling and you register, and particularly in the times that we are in it is a valuable source of current information in terms of the safety and well- being of persons, and I do not need to illustrate why that is important. It is becoming more and more important.
But another element of it, and it links to our diaspora policy that we are honing at this time and, in fact, shortly we will be engaging stakeholders, and of course our stakeholders would include the diaspora. Since we are in stringent times you know we would be using the technology to reach them. But the other element involves, not just knowing where people are, but knowing the skills and competencies that people have that we feel may be of benefit to the country, in terms of skills coming back or even if it is not that you relocate, you may be able to share your skills for a season, and we need to know that and to tap into it.
Of course, there is also the link between particular kinds of skills and possibly industry. So this RSNE—and I promise you, you will be seeing more of it in the next three months because we plan to have outreach even to—you will be seeing it. We trust that it will be seen because we recognize that there is the need, first of all, to have our locals who are travelling abroad to register, but there is also the need to engage and to have persons living abroad to register as well. To register, not in terms of just that we are here, but this is what we do and this is what we can bring to you.
If I may add, that can tie in nicely with the question asked earlier on by Minister Cudjoe in terms of knowing where we have clusters of persons with skills that may tie into whether it is tourism or energy or what have you.
Madam Chairman: Another question—and we have been talking about the Caricom Fund whole afternoon—what is the total amount of funds disbursed to Caricom and its various entities, example the CDF, annually? I know you would not have that information but, certainly, you can keep it in mind because it is online here. Over the last three years, how much has been disbursed to Caricom and, of course, that same CDF, that Caricom Development Fund? Remember that was established in November of 2008. So what has been our contribution to date? That is one of the questions sent in.
The last question, the public wants to know: Please ask how soon they will be sending out Counsels General to all the consulates who do not have a Consulate General? I do not know if you are in a position to answer this at this point.
Mrs. Daniel: I can answer in terms of the needs of our diaspora. I can assure citizens that their needs are being met, we have staff on the ground and the work is ongoing. The issue of consul generals is not with us, but I can assure you and I can assure the public that the work goes on.
Madam Chairman: Thank you very much, PS. I want to say to Madam PS, to Ms. Jennifer Marchand, Ms. Jenny Thompson, I thank you. I have been enlightened this afternoon, and I really feel quite good. But I want you to have the closing remarks. In the closing remarks I want to find out, “where we going next?” What is the way forward now for our Caribbean integration, Madam PS?
Mrs. Daniel: I thank again the Committee for the opportunity to be here, to have the ability to share some of what is happening and to get free press. I thank you as well for reminding us and not reigniting, because the flame has not gone out, but if not reigniting, stoking the fire and reminding us again to be passionate about something that we are passionate about, which is Caribbean integration. I can assure you that we take back that passion. We are reminded that the eyes are on us. The fact that persons have called in, it means that there is an interest and there are needs that we have to continue to meet, and that is the main thing I will convey.
So that in terms of the way forward for the integration movement, it is continuing; it is evolving. We have to be responsive, which is why we cannot even dictate a very precise end, because as things occur in the international arena or regionally, we have to be responsive. I think that is the main thing I can leave you with. That notwithstanding, whatever comes our way, that our commitment to regional integration continues. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you very much. To members of the media, observers in the public gallery and to our viewing and listening audience, thank you very much for joining us. Until next time, this meeting now stands adjourned. 4.45 p.m.: Meeting adjourned.
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VERBATIM NOTES OF THE FOURTEENTH OF THE JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HELD IN THE J. HAMILTON MAURICE ROOM, MEZZANINE FLOOR, TOWER D, PORT OF SPAIN, INTERNATIONAL WATERFRONT CENTRE, #1A WRIGHTSON ROAD, PORT OF SPAIN, ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 24, 2017 AT 2.40 P.M. PRESENT Miss Marlene Mc Donald Chairman Mr. Rodney Charles Member Miss Anita Haynes Member Mr. Avinash Singh Member Miss Shamfa Cudjoe Member Mrs. Paula Gopee-Scoon Vice-Chairman Mrs. Angelique Massiah Secretary Miss Kimberly Mitchell Assistant Secretary Miss Vahini Jainarine Legal Officer
ABSENT Dr. Dhanayshar Mahabir Member [Excused] Mr. Terrence Deyalsingh Member [Excused]
2.40 p.m.: Meeting resumed.
MINISTRY OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY Mr. Norris Herbert Permanent Secretary Ms. Trudy Lewis Senior Economist Ms. Dana Iles State Counsel III Mr. Kriyaa Balramsingh Economist II
MINISTRY OF NATIONAL SECURITY Mrs. Vashti Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman Permanent Secretary (Ag.) Mrs. Charmaine Gandhi-Andrews Chief Immigration Officer (Ag.) Mr. Richard Lynch Deputy Director, International Affairs Unit Mr. Zeke Beharry International Affairs Coordinator, International Affairs Unit
MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, LAND AND FISHERIES Ms. Angela Siew Permanent Secretary Ms. Elizabeth Mohammed Director, Fisheries Division Dr. David Kangaloo Chief Veterinary Officer Ms. Deanne Ramroop Deputy Director, Research
Madam Chairman: Good afternoon to all. Let me start by welcoming all the officials from the Ministries of National Security; Trade and Industry; Agriculture, Land and Fisheries; and of course, to all the viewing and listening audience, to the Fourteenth Meeting of the Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs. This is the Committee's second public hearing into the enquiry on Regional Integration and the Strengthening of the Caricom Institution. Let me take this opportunity to have the Ministry of Trade—we will start with that particular Ministry, introduce themselves.
Mr. Herbert: Thank you, Madam Chairman and members of the Committee, my name is Norris Herbert, I am Permanent Secretary, and together on our delegation are Ms. Trudy Lewis, Acting Senior Economist; Ms. Dana Iles, the State Counsel III; and Mr. Kriyaa Balramsingh, Economist II. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you. As I indicated, we will begin with the Ministry of Trade. But, for all present, let me state and remind you of the eight objectives of this enquiry:
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1. To investigate Caricom's efforts to encourage regional integration; 2. To assess whether regional integration can feasibly occur with a particular focus on any successes thus far and any challenges; 3. To assess Trinidad and Tobago's stance on regional integration; 4. To understand the current policies that facilitate regional integration; 5. To examine the efficiency and capacity of Caricom; 6. To determine Caricom's plans and strategies for strengthening its organs and the institution as a whole; 7. To determine the challenges, successes and opportunities of Caricom; and 8. To determine the extent to which Caricom has implemented any recommendations, and the successes of such recommendations, if any. I would like an opening statement from the Permanent Secretary, Mr. Norris Herbert. As we go along I would get opening statements from the PS for Agriculture and for National Security. So, Mr. Norris Herbert, please.
Mr. Herbert: Again, thank you, Madam Chair. On the issue of integration, integration is critical for Trinidad and Tobago. And where we stand as the Ministry of Trade and Industry we are focused on the trade component in the wider scheme of activities related to integration. In the literature, there are different types of integration. There is the customs union, free trading areas agreement, there is the Common Market, there is the union, and there is also the political component. So there are different types of integration.
In this hemisphere we have had different aspects over the past few decades, and I only wish to draw your attention to something like the free trade area of the Americas which was attempted at one time and which eventually was stopped in its track. And, in the case of Caricom, we are aspiring to a Single Market and Economy, and that is since the mid ’70s or early ’70s. We had a customs union, and evenly in the ’80s we took the decision that we would move on to the Single Market and Economy, and that itself has provided some challenges, and the single economy is now deferred, but we are in the process of moving from the trade in goods area in the customs union type level towards the Single Market and Economy.
So, it is in that context we find ourselves participating in the key organ of the regional movement which deals with trade, and that is the Council for Trade and Economic Development, and inside there are a number of sub-institutions which we partake in. So, essentially that is how I will start the discussion from our side. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you. Let me remind all officials as well as Committee members that all questions must be directed through the Chair. I also want to remind you that please kindly activate your microphones when you are speaking, and if you have cell phones on, please turn them off. And just a little oversight on my part with respect to introduction, I will start on my right before we get into the actual questioning. [Introductions made]
Madam Chairman: So we begin our investigation with Trade, and we have heard the opening statement by the Permanent Secretary, any member of my team?
Miss Haynes: So, I have looked through the documents, and given your opening statement, we are looking at how Trinidad and Tobago has adjusted its policies to move towards regional integration, so we just wanted to get a sense of the adjustments that have been made to move us towards regional integration.
Mr. Herbert: Chair, in response, Trinidad and Tobago has been a key actor in the regional movement for integration, and one of the strengths that I have constantly heard, since I was not here from the beginning, is that Trinidad has, over the years, developed a trade policy, and has remained consistent to the characteristics of external trade. So, in terms of promoting the trading relationship, Trinidad and Tobago has consistently applied that outlook as opposed to say the more protectionist approach which was there in the early days.
So, Trinidad and Tobago moved its trade paradigm along to facilitating and encouraging external trade within its borders. So, you find that Trinidad and Tobago in the earlies was one of the first countries to address its common external tariff, and has consistently applied in the main adjustments to tariffs and policies as agreed at the regional level over the years.
So, by and large, when there was the discussion about moving towards the Single Market and Economy, Trinidad and Tobago had undertaken most of the major initiatives that were required at that time.
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Miss Haynes: So, we have made adjustments but the challenges are all external to our trade policy, is it that what we are getting at? The impact of the adjustment would be almost negated by external challenges. Is that safe to say?
Mr. Herbert: The success of the changes are really communal or common. So, for instance, if there is an agreement on movement of goods or services, you really require all countries to accept it, firstly, and then to adopt it. And, by and large, in terms of a regional integration one wants a certain level of certainty, so one would like the measures to be represented in law as opposed to administrative arrangements, and I think that is where the challenge has been. So, there are those countries who on the onset indicate their disadvantage, and then there are those that go ahead and implement by administrative arrangements and their move towards the legislative dimension is sometimes delayed, so that is where the challenge comes in.
Madam Chairman: Could I ask a question, interject at this point? We have been talking about, and time immemorial about regional integration. What would you consider, Mr. Herbert, to be the main hindrance or hindrances towards regional integration, as you see it from your Ministry?
Mr. Herbert: Well, at the bottom of the hindrance is the contradiction which takes place between nationalism and regionalism. So, nationally, governments have a certain level of interest, and at times it may coincide and at times it may not coincide with the regional interest. So, even though our heads, for instance, may agree that we would go to a certain point, it takes lots of time to get there if there is not that buy-in at the different levels. And it ranges from goods, where it is just a question of tariffs, and customs, and standards bodies, and that sort of thing, to services, where you have both the movement of services and factors of production. And you also have like, even movement of people, and then you move on to the economy where you have the issue of the currency, for instance, and economic policies. So, you have some countries in the region with a common currency, say the OECS, and then you have some countries with a flexible currency, and some with a floating currency. You have all those issues to align, and really and truly at the end of it is the imperative of national interest versus the imperative of regional interest.
Madam Chairman: So, are you saying, Mr. Herbert, if I am to interpret all that you are telling me, is it correct to state that each Caribbean state—so to speak—they would view themselves or they try to protect their sovereignty as far as possible, and therefore in the line-up of things, they put the country first as opposed to going regional?
Mr. Herbert: My personal view is that that has emerged greater and greater over the years. And, you must remember that Caricom is an association of sovereign States as opposed to the European Union, say, where there is a commission which can take action against individual states. In our case, each Member State retains its national sovereignty in the arrangements.
Mr. Charles: Through you, Madam Chair, one of the recurring issues is the question that Trinidad has a significant trade advantage with these smaller islands and they perceive us to be the main beneficiary of the Caricom enterprise. Have we ever done a study to find out what does Caricom cost Trinidad and Tobago in its totality? And I am talking about benefits. In agriculture, there is a significant trade imbalance with the small islands. That is one.
Secondly, we support UWI significantly, we support the Caribbean Development Bank, and if we total all these supports that we give, we may very well realize, or we would be in a position to say, listen, there are mutual benefits; there are benefits to us in trade, manufacturing goods, and there are benefits to you in terms of the financial support we give. But to make that point we have to have before us the figure, the total cost of the supports, direct and indirect cost to Caricom.
Mr. Herbert: We have made the argument on many occasions, but we have not done the quantification that you are asking about. But we do recognize that in the area of goods, we are a major beneficiary; in the area of services, the statistics are a bit more difficult for persons who operate in that field know that internationally, services statistics are very difficult to come by. But the anecdotal and a priori feeling is that even in that area, Trinidad and Tobago is a major beneficiary in the arrangement. In the institutional arrangements, we generally contribute in the area of 23 per cent of budget, or somewhere around there. It would vary as Member States apart or not apart, but it is in the vicinity of 22/23 per cent. But we have not done the quantification that you are asking. Now, I do not even know if doing the quantification will be very useful, because a lot of other issues are inside there, but maybe it is useful to have the quantification on hand at any point in time.
Miss Haynes: So, Madam Chair, through you, when we go back to the main hindrance being the buy-in at all levels, and I have gone through what the Ministry of Trade has done, which is participate in regional organs and bodies, et cetera. I guess my first question is, if our participation in your view is at capacity, so have we done all that we can do, and now are we waiting for additional buy-in to move towards further regional integration, or is there more that we can do to facilitate?
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3.00 p.m. Mr. Herbert: Well, I would say it is not a static situation where you can say that you do all that you could do and think that that will hold in the future. I think that in the past we have been at the forefront, all right. And in addition to being at the forefront we have actually encouraged and pulled along much of the membership of the integration.
So for instance, when the region is to engage in external trade relations we generally support organizing at the regional level, first, to engage with the wider international community and we have been active in that. For instance, when we negotiated with Dominican Republic, we were at the forefront of that. It was first a Dominican Republic/Trinidad Agreement and then we moved it to a Caricom/Dominican Republic Agreement. Costa Rica was the same. Cuba we were, we were at the forefront.
So we in the past have done, I think, all that we could have done at that point in time. Increasingly, in today's arrangement you have other subgroupings being developed within the region. So you have the OECS forming their economic union, working towards that and that in itself creates different kinds of dynamics. You also have Belize which is part of Central America and you have Suriname on the continent of South America and you have different implications there. But what I am saying is that I do believe that Trinidad and Tobago has done what it could do but that cannot hold. We cannot say that we have done all that we could do and expect that that will last in perpetuity. We generally have to continue to do more.
Madam Chairman: Sorry. Mr. Herbert—
Mr. Herbert: Yes, Madam Chair.
Madam Chairman: Would you say that Trinidad and Tobago has benefited from regional integration, so far?
Mr. Herbert: The short answer is, yes, and one only has to look at the economic aspect. So much of our trade exports, our manufacturers are trading heavily in the Caricom region. Jamaica is probably one of our biggest market, then the OECS. Not only are we exporting significant amounts there, but we have also set up operations in the OECS, in Jamaica. If you go to the shelves, you would see our manufacturing products. But the importance of that is not just that we are exporting, but that that sector is what employs lots of our population.
So it is very critical that we get the benefits from there, because then that is a major aspect of our economy, in addition, to the foreign exchange which is so critical at this point in time. In addition, lots of the service providers, they move up and down the region providing services and, as I said before, the statistical information is very difficult in that area but, anecdotal, we have seen the significant opportunities taken by our service providers.
There was an occasion when our heads were speaking about integrated arrangements. Like for instance, Guyana has land and maybe Trinidad can provide some investment and get output from the land. Jamaica has bauxite or Suriname has—other. So, there was a time when that was a major item of discussion, but I think that that sort of outlook has kind of taken a backseat in these days. But I guess as the economy part of the single market and the economy takes root, I think it will come back on the agenda.
Madam Chairman: Okay. So Mr. Herbert, having agreed that Trinidad and Tobago has benefited a lot from regional integration, could you tell us what could be done to move us to the next level, to strengthen our hands with Caricom. Because there seems to be a stalemate that we are just voicing this —and this is what I have been trying to do, because this is our second hearing. I am trying to get from public officials, what could we do to push this regional integration and the strengthening of Caricom? What could we do? We are benefiting. So if we should go deeper we should see better benefits and more benefits. You talked about the job creation, et cetera. What could we do to move to that next level? And what are the hindrances, I think that is what we want to find out?
Mr. Herbert: You know, if you were to take the members of Caricom, there would be a distribution of benefits, so Trinidad and Tobago may get 50 per cent and Barbados a certain per cent and Jamaica and OECS and others. In addition to that, the world economy is changing and many persons who did not used to trade with the Caribbean are now trading with the Caricom countries and the tariffs, for instance, are going down.
So the competitive edge that a Caricom country would have had X years ago has diminished significantly. So any arrangement to advance the regional arrangement must involve not just efforts on the MDCs of Caricom, which is Trinidad
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and Guyana, but also it must have a certain kind of understanding with the smaller territories, many of whom have felt that they have been disadvantaged over the years.
Madam Chairman: But Mr. Herbert, that is a very serious statement you have just made there. Because one would have thought that as a region, you know, there is strength in numbers; there would be what you call economies of scale. You all would know better as economists. Ms. Lewis will know better, the economies of scale, you know, you come together as a body and you are able to negotiate. But if it is that we are losing that competitive edge and other countries, Europe, maybe Far East and what not, they are coming in and actually trading within our region, then something is wrong. Then we need to examine what is happening and why are we not hearing more about regional integration, because this is a threat.
It reminded me over the years when I was in Opposition, the constant reminder that shale gas would have been a threat to us at some point in time and actually it has. It has turned out to be so. Now, here we have a situation where we are poised on losing or started to lose that competitive edge as a group of countries, but we are not hearing anything. And, you know, so that statement you made there, unless I am misinterpreting you, the statement I am hearing there is critical.
Mr. Herbert: Chair, this is 2018. I know that you know it is 2018, but the elements that created competition or determined the level of competitiveness years ago, are quickly evaporating. So the issue of competition on your doorstep from even outside of the region, China, elsewhere, is a reality. That is a base position regardless of what you do. The issue now is how as an internal grouping we organize ourselves to treat with such competition and we got a hiatus from the fact that we did not complete the FTA. Had we completed the FTAA the competitive forces would have been much greater. So that is a given.
So the real question is, how as 14 or so countries do we organize ourselves to treat—like is provided for in the Treaty of Chaguaramas, Article 80 which provides for the external trade arrangements, how do we organize ourselves individually and collectively to treat with those forces? And as a group of sovereign States, everybody has a say in that. So it is really about balancing the interests therein to get a collective increase in the competitiveness of our countries.
Mr. Charles: Chair, forgive me a little, but I like figures. What percentage of our trade is with Caricom countries and what percentage of our trade is outside the region, because I am wondering if it is under 10 per cent as I think it is, I am not sure, then we may be spending time and a lot of effort on 10 per cent of the trade which probably optimally will increase to 15 per cent. And I am wondering, since we are an energy based country, I know we are diversifying, but I understand that Guyana within the next two years would be producing close to 300,000 barrels of oil per day. Are we putting sufficient effort in your view, in terms of this new opportunity for us to leverage our experience in the energy sector and at the same time deal with the Caricom enterprise in a way that would be beneficial both to Guyana and to Trinidad and Tobago?
Mr. Herbert: Chair, I will ask Ms. Lewis to address the specific figures, but before I do, I would just like to say that the element of exchange is one thing. The element of economic contribution in terms of employment is another thing that one has to factor. So I do think that it would be important to consider both aspects and not really with the mindset that one is important and the other—but to seek to improve in each area.
In addition, in terms of the energy aspect, again in my view, I do not have the statistics to back it up, but there is significant scope for service providers in Guyana and Suriname as they develop their own resources in that economy. So it is just to make the point that, fine, we need to provide the—and look at the figures and that sort of thing, but we also need to have the policy outlook that the activities are important for different things.
Mr. Charles: Just one clarification and I agree with you. It is not an either or, Caricom or, right, but moving pari passu on both fronts, okay. Basically that is it.
Miss Cudjoe: Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a number of questions that sit on my mind but I would ask you just a couple. In interviewing you today, the message that I am getting is, it is not we is them. So we are doing all that we can as Trinidad and Tobago and, of course, for regional integration to happen, one hand cannot clap. So the others have to be on board also.
You have also mentioned that the statements towards saying that the economic environment has changed, free trade now dominates the world, so the rest of our brothers and sisters in the region are pretty much free to interact and trade with other countries. That being said, do you think that this whole concept of regional integration is still attractive to the rest of the region and still relevant, considering the economic background that we are now a part of?
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Ms. Lewis: Through you, Madam Chair, to the member, with respect to our export figures, Caricom’s export as a percentage of total exports was 10.1 per cent for 2016 and with respect to imports we import approximately 1.4 per cent of our total imports from Caricom. And back to the PS.
Mr. Herbert: Chair, I think the question was in two parts. “We” as opposed to “them” and the other part was the attractiveness of international—trade liberalization I think—
Ms. Lewis: Regional integration.
Mr. Herbert: Regional integration, sorry.
Miss Cudjoe: Against the background of trade liberalization.
Mr. Herbert: Against trade liberalization. So Chair, it will never be “we” —not “we” but “them”. It would always be all of us having to make decisions, having to employ imperatives to make our competitiveness characteristics much better. The countries of the OECS, for instance, they have their own concerns and they would always be striving to have a more comfortable and better share of the cake. We also would want to have a better share of the cake, but together we have to try to increase the cake if we have to get greater benefits on both sides. And that is just putting it in a soft statement.
In terms of the attractiveness of regional integration, I think there are, as you would know, Chair, there are many dimensions of regional integration and because of that and we are talking about trade here, but there are others, foreign affairs and all those other aspects, social and everything.
But in terms of trade, integration promotes not only government to government arrangements. It really provides the backbone and the framework for private sector to operate and to the extent that we can as governments encourage that type of expansion and mobility, integration would be very important, because as governments, there was a time when governments dominated the state sector, so you had things like flour mills and other state enterprises and things. And Government’s hand was very big and over the years, not only in Trinidad and Tobago, within other parts, the Government's role has diminished, somewhat, and private sector has taken a greater hand.
So what I am saying is that trade liberalization, yes, trade agreements, but at the end of the day, what you are seeking to do is to have firms export more. To export more, other countries would want to be able to export to you too. The days of the CBI and Carib Card being the agreements, they are quickly phasing out although they are in their last set of dimensions, but the issue is really regional integration, (a) to make use of extended production possibilities. So like, for instance, you would have a firm that has developed in Trinidad and Tobago, for instance, operating in St. Lucia or Jamaica and those dynamics help to build the scale.
So that is very important and even though there is liberalization, because liberalization is a given. Countries out in the cold, 20 years ago, are trading now, China, for example. Because of their scale, because of their production element they might be able to compete on your doorstep as you can. So all these are facts in the trade environment and we have to package that as we seek to achieve improvements.
Miss Cudjoe: With that said, my next question would be, in 2000/2001 I remember being a Sixth Form student and being excited about the CSME and all that the CSME had promised and here we are, 16, 17 years later and it feels like we have not really moved as it relates to the movement—yes, the movement of factors of production, good. But the movement of people, the harmonization of domestic regulations and so on, it still feels like we are stuck. What can we really pinpoint as our accomplishment since the establishment of the CSME in 2001, and do we still believe that the Treaty of Chaguaramas of 1973 still has the necessary bite to match the bark that we have been promoting as it relates to Caricom and regional integration? I have my personal view that it is weak because we said in the documents that you should not do this, you should not do that and then on another stage or in the same breath, we get away with doing the same things that we said we would not do.
So, are we considering going back to the table and putting stronger provisions in the document so that we can abide to a stronger document? And my third and final question would be, we tend to harp on the economic and trade benefits of regional integration and then we start beating up on ourselves as to how far we did not get. But if we examine the journey of let us say the European Union, it took them over 100 years and they would have done stuff like exchange of students and cultural exchanges to foster that relationship between the different communities.
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What are we doing outside of saying we are not making money here, this is not happening economically? What are the other strategies that we can talk about and celebrate to give young people that hope that we have promised as it relates to regional integration? So three questions to answer.
Mr. Herbert: To answer the question of what has been done since 2001, I would generally say that the area of services, the initial aspects of services has brought about some improvements. So the categories of skills that were moving in 2001 when protocol two was being developed to be integrated into the treaty, I would think that there are some areas of progress, albeit, that it is not at the level that we anticipated by now.
In addition to the economic initiatives you take, also have other considerations and as I spoke about the national interest always have to be weighed and sovereign States have to face the social implications associated with such moving.
So there has been significant progress with the categories since 2001. You have from university graduates down to, I think is, teachers, you know, we have musicians, sportsmen, all these different categories, but there have been some improvements, yeah. Now, since that time the goalpost for the single economy has expanded. One would have thought that by now we would have made significant progress with some of the areas that we are talking about, like currency, like economic, harmonization of economic models and those have been pushed forward. In a sense that is a consequence of sovereign countries feeling that, well we need some more time to adjust and to reach where we want to go, because these countries now have to explain to their population what they are doing to get their buy-in and my own view is that that has been part of the delay that has resulted over the years.
So the single market is no longer at this time, but 20 or so and we do not know whether that will materialize. Because at the end of the day what is required is the implementation will of all the sovereign States. And to the extent that we can move that—and remember it is not just trade but it is also external relations, social, cultural, all the dimensions. To the extent that as a people—and there are other things like transportation and the infrastructural bits that are missing in the equation. So there are a number of issues that we have to treat with.
Mr. Singh: Thank you, Chair. Through you, I would ask all my questions just four very brief questions in one. I saw from your responses here we have negotiated a couple of agreements with the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica and Cuba. First question, I saw Cuba as a destination now with respect to, apart from the tourism side of it, from siting from the Ministry of Trade and Industry, I recently saw the Government taking initiative to open the transportation part of that and offering a fare, a direct flight. From where you sit, what benefit that would bring directly and indirectly to Trinidad and Tobago? That is the first question.
The second one, when you speak to persons in the business community and you speak to wholesalers, manufacturers, retailers, you know they all speak about these fares, these free trade markets and in some instances permanent markets. You can go to Canton Fair in China, the Panama market and trade shows in Brazil and so on. Have you all at the Ministry of Trade and Industry explored that market opportunity in terms of having something permanent based in Trinidad and Tobago because of where we are located being one of the best transshipment ports for the world, as a matter of fact, and if so, what implications that would bring to the people of Trinidad and Tobago. So the second question is free trade market and I am thinking something like a permanent established market in Trinidad and Tobago that would benefit all the players.
The third question centers around this whole Caricom free trade and integration. Everything comes down from manufacturing or producing some goods and services to be sold on the international market and I am going to zoom in here. It may be controversial, but I am going to zoom in here where retailers, wholesalers, manufacturers and traders, in terms of the foreign exchange, because you hear them complaining time and time again about the availability. So in my mind my opinion is that the private sector is not fully self-sustainable in generating their own foreign currency to continue and the Government has had ongoing attempts to put an injection into the market, to stimulate activity.
My question in that part is, from where you sit the volume of foreign exchange imputed by both the private and the public sector, what type of economic activity or what are the outputs? Because if I put in US $10 million into the economy of Trinidad and Tobago, I want to know that it has generated an output of X amount. I am not seeing that. Where is the US going in terms of manufacturers, retailers, traders and so on?
And my last question, final question would be, I see that a particular company was successful in going to the CCJ and having the CCJ rule on a matter where trade is concerned. I am just curious to know, are there any other matters that
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are before CCJ at this point in time? And if so, if you could shed some light in those matters. Thank you.
Mr. Herbert: I am not sure that I have all the questions, but I think the first question dealt with the trade agreements and Cuba, in particular, where just recently there was the reintroduction of the flight from Port of Spain to Havana. And you said, apart from tourism; tourism is part of the arrangement also and people move to do business. And based on the interactions we have had, say over the last 16 months or 18 months or so, we have seen significant arrangements advance between the private sector in Trinidad. Well, you know Cuba is state dominated in terms of its relationships.
So we have seen significant improvements. I would not call any company name, but both from exports and investment opportunities. In terms of other business relationships, we have seen increased prospects there. There is one area that we are working to improve and that is the intermediary banking relationships and that is because Cuba generally has a long payment period. So we have an interim arrangement there and we are trying to get the best arrangement in place there.
So we feel that in terms of Cuba there are good prospects for the business community especially in a period where we are talking about exports, foreign exchange, et cetera. I am not sure I understood—
Mr. Singh: The second part was establishing a free trade market area as comparable to the Panama market or the Canton Fair in China or the trade show in Brazil, if you all explored that option coming from the Ministry of Trade and Industry for your clients being the manufacturers, the suppliers and so on.
Mr. Herbert: We have spoken about the transshipment possibility and that is something that we are exploring. We have not spoken about the—well, we have a zone for production that we are also treating with. How that would emerge, it is still to be finalized.
The third thing is about the foreign exchange and here I give my own view, because the issue of foreign exchange is a very tricky and controversial one. And the Government cannot be expected to provide the foreign exchange input that they have done over the previous years and we all know the reason for that, so I would not go into that. But the point is that the relationships of businesses have to be one where there is some hope of inputting foreign exchange into Trinidad and Tobago or generating foreign exchange. So the issue of alliances in terms of joint ventures with manufacturers or external actors becomes critical. I would not get into the issue of exchange rates. That is not for me at this point.
Mr. Singh: Chair, with your—I was relating to, as my colleague, member Charles was zooming into numbers. In terms of and the example I used if I input US $10 million into the economy of Trinidad and Tobago, are we seeing a direct impact in terms of the economic activity generated, in terms of figures, or is it that these persons who purchase the foreign exchange to do trade and all of that is going somewhere else? I am asking from my own personal opinion in terms of—from where you sit at the Ministry of Trade and Industry your clients being manufacturers, those who go to TTMA, retailers, wholesalers, all these persons who come to you for import permit and all of that who need to get foreign exchange to do their business, whether it be using it to buy raw materials to convert it into a saleable item to ship back out. In terms of the generation of activity coming from that, as I said in my question, the private sector does not seem to be generating enough foreign exchange and hence the Government's input. So in terms of—where you all sit when you all generate your numbers, your graphs and figures, is there any relationships as to where you can, you know, point to this US foreign exchange value going to as opposed to the actual economic activity in the country?
Mr. Herbert: Chairman, I think we need to be practical on this issue. At the last budget reading, the Minister of Finance spoke about measures for the private sector, through Eximbank. Before that we did not have specific measures for manufactures and I do not think any one of us in this room can say how much money went to, (a) the private sector, or (b) the manufacturing sector. So I do not think the Eximbank arrangement is finalized as yet.
So the point is that I do not think we have the rudiments to say X million went to manufacturers, so it went to these 10 manufacturers and these 10 manufacturers performed in this way. When the Central Bank injects money into the commercial banks, they distribute it accordance to their own demands. So the point is that it is very difficult, pre that arrangement to determine whether the injection into manufacturing and the output that arose from that outcome.
And I think the fourth question had to do with the CCJ. As far as I know, there were a couple of TCL matters before the CCJ and I do not know of any more—well, there was the issue of the Belizean national who had taken action
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because of the whole issue with gender and acceptance of movement. And I do not know that that has been resolved. I do not think that it has been resolved, but I do not know of any others. I know there have been threats along the way, but I do not know of any other at this point in time. Madam Chairman: Mr. Herbert, the final question to your Ministry. I know that the Government of Trinidad and Tobago makes financial payments, contributions to support certain regional institutions. For example, the CDF (Caribbean Development Fund), the Caricom Competition Commission and, of course, the Caricom Regional Organization for Standards and Quality. Are the payments up to date? What is the status of these payments and how would our economic situation currently affect any moves in terms of regional integration at this point in time? But are we current on the payments to the— Mr. Herbert: Chair, CDF, that needs to be directed to the Ministry of Finance. Madam Chairman: Okay. Mr. Herbert: Competition, we paid up to last year and this year is still pending. And CROSQ, I think we paid up to last year. So that is our contribution. Traditionally, we have been one of the first to pay in Caricom. Madam Chairman: Okay, good to hear. All right, thank you very much, Ministry of Trade and Industry. We turn our attention now to the Ministry of National Security. Opening statement from Permanent Secretary, Ministry of National Security, Ms. Lydia Jacobs. Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Good afternoon, Chair. Madam Chairman: Is Ms. Lydia Jacobs—you are not? Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: No, she is not here this afternoon. Madam Chairman: Oh, so you are the Acting Permanent Secretary. My apologies, Ms. Vashti Shrikensingh-Jitman. I got that? Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Well, almost. [Laughter] Madam Chairman: Thank you. Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Good afternoon, Madam Chairman, and members of the Committee. The Ministry of National Security appreciates the opportunity to contribute to the Joint Select Committee on Foreign Affairs with particular reference to regional integration and the strengthening of the Caricom institution. For our Ministry, regional integration is guided by the decisions of the Conference of Heads of Government, other organs of Caricom, as well as the Ministry Foreign and Caricom Affairs. As such, given the focus as well as the objectives of the enquiry, the Ministry of National Security responded to the questions from the position which considered the role and mandate of this Ministry and its perspective on regional integration. In this regard, we are pleased to be here and to clarify any matters you may have in this public forum. Thank you. Mr. Charles: Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you very much, Madam Acting Permanent Secretary. I would not take a chance with the name, Shrikensingh-Jitman. [Crosstalk] Thank you. Given the regions are security challenges which are common, more or less, porous borders, prevalence of gangs, drugs, high murder rates throughout the Caribbean, Jamaica, St. Lucia, Bahamas, Trinidad. How are we working collectively to confront these issues? And in your view is there more that needs to be done or you are satisfied with our collective response to these issues? Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Madam Chair, through you it was remiss of me, I am here with three other colleagues from the Ministry and I would ask them to introduce themselves now. [Introductions made] Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Madam Chair, member, I will now ask Mr. Richard Lynch to respond to this question. Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, through you, if I understand the question clearly, member Charles, the question of the regional security architecture being a fundamental framework within which we address common issues have been essentially, the approach that Caricom Member States have taken. Particularly, in the context of the establishment of four crucial agencies, one being Caricom IMPACS and its sub-agencies which is essentially an implementation type of agency, Caricom IMPACS. Of course, there is also the Regional Security System and the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency, as well as the Caribbean Aviation Safety and Security Oversight System. The reality is that a lot of the challenges that you would have mentioned in your question are transnational in nature. A lot of the drivers of insecurity and as such the idea or the concept that we approach these challenges from a common security framework is a fundamental rationale for the establishment of these agencies. Secondly, the fact that we are at different levels experiencing some measures of resource constraints in comparison to the multidimensional nature of our threats, the rationale, of course, would be if we have certain types of resource constraints with common multidimensional threats, then the approach would be we need to mobilize our resources and get what we would call bang for buck. Mr. Charles: Thank you very much. But given that a lot of our problems arise from the fact that we are located between the producers and the consumers of drugs and we just happen to be on the way, and we speak respectively of the United States as the main consumer. Given that we have had in the region, collectively, significant numbers of deportees. In fact,
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they have solved their crime problem by deporting.
Given the fact that at the Arms Trade Treaty the question of guns, which is a significant problem, and the United States, for example, because of pressure from the NRA has been reticent in assisting us in developing this tracking mechanisms that could help us identify where these guns come from. And the question I am asking, have we collectively given those realities the sort of talk to the United States to let her know that the problem that we face here has its origins significantly in that country and therefore they can do more. So when I hear you talk about the, a resource constraint and I understand IMPACS, they are suffering because some countries cannot make their contributions, are we sufficiently addressing that country in terms of its responsibility to not just call us “s-hole” countries but to help us to develop in a way that could maximize our significant resources that we have and deal with the issue of crime.
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, through you, the idea of a common architecture for security within Caricom is not isolated to Member States collaborating and cooperating on matters of common threats to our security. It also—the security aspect makes its way up to the Conference of Heads of Government and as such the opportunity to integrate a regional position as Caricom reaches out to our other international partners is a fundamental framework of our security architecture.
So that while it would not be the remit of, well, certainly not myself to necessarily give the details as far as how the Caricom framework would engage other regions as far as the global network around issues, like you would have raised in terms of drug trafficking and so on, we would anticipate that perhaps at the Heads of Government level there is a measure of mobilization of position that is then articulated to one of our international partners that I think you are alluding to.
Mr. Charles: My understanding is that within Caricom we are the shadow government responsible for national security. Am I correct?
Mr. Lynch: Lead government in the quasi Cabinet for security.
Mr. Charles: Lead government in the quasi Cabinet. And one of the instruments through which Caricom addresses the issue of national security, is the question of the Security Council within Caricom and my understanding from the documentation that we got from you is that this mechanism is not functioning as it ought to. Could you care to give us some reason why this is so If it is, in fact?
Mr. Lynch: My apologies. I am not sure I understand the particular question. Could you kindly repeat, may I ask?
Mr. Charles: All right, my understanding is that there is an institution called the Security Council within Caricom and the question I am asking is that, is there a role, a greater role for us? Is it functioning optimally? And is there a role for us in this mechanism?
Mr. Lynch: If you are referring to the Council for Ministers with responsibility for national security and law enforcement, which would be CONSLE and there is a system by which CONSLE reports to the lead government with the responsibility for crime and security which would be Trinidad and Tobago. So, yes, there is a mechanism for reporting on these matters.
Madam Chairman: Mr. Lynch, my question to you is, how would deepening our ties with Caricom and pushing the regional integration, how would it help us here in Trinidad with respect to crime?
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, the transnational nature of our security would seem to suggest that some measure of regional security is a fundamental aspect of how we achieve national security in Trinidad and Tobago. One may argue that the inverse is also a reality to the extent that Trinidad and Tobago achieves a certain measure of national security. It redounds to the benefit of the region as well.
So in this context, the regional integration allows for the mobilization of resources among different sovereign States to treat with common challenges to our securities. So strictly from the question of the benefit of Trinidad and Tobago and by extension our national security, the regional integration effort allows us to treat with some challenges that are generated outside of Trinidad and Tobago.
Madam Chairman: Well, this will then beg the second question. How successful have we been at regional integration, re: these matters, matters of crime which seem to be occupying a lot of our attention these days?
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Mr. Lynch: Well I suppose, Madam Chair, the question of how successful may be dependent on what are the measures that we use to determine some level of success. The truth is, the fact that—and I am glad that the Ministry of Trade and Industry went before us, they would have laid a particular foundation as far as the interconnectedness of our global system and within that context the question of new and emerging threats are now synergized with some measure of traditional threats. So this multidimensional framework within which, and we are experiencing threats to our national security means that we are always in the pursuit of new and innovative ways to allow the regional integration system to at least match some of the threats to us as a region as well as sovereign States.
So there is a measure of success if you consider that, to some extent, we are, if you can excuse my military language, we are shooting at a moving target. It is not a static environment that we are functioning in and as such constant review of our different agencies within the framework within which they operate, is a fundamental aspect of how we assess the level of success of our initiatives.
Miss Haynes: So from your response and I guess I am asking your opinion here, strengthening regional integration would have a positive impact on our national security. So from that and looking at what we have already done, what, in your view, is the road ahead? Where should we be going now?
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, through you, again, I want to underscore our happiness to some extent that the Ministry of Trade and Industry went before us. It is important for us to locate this regional integration process in a broader perspective and I am glad that my colleague made reference to the European Union and their own challenges.
Relatively, one may consider the fact that—if we look at it relatively, we are on the way, but certainly if you are asking for prescriptions in terms of security, there are a number of initiatives that are in train. Some of them I would imagine are providing different levels of effectiveness, but again, because we are treating with issues that are not static, prescriptions would certainly be continued dialogue among sovereign states to identify what are those common areas that we can mobilize resources around.
And again, because the Ministry of Trade and Industry spoke to the variation of economic realities across different sovereign States within this multilateral framework, the same applies for security. Depending on one’s economic and other circumstances we may look at security through different lens and as such the process by which we arrive at least what are those baseline common areas that we would want to work on, definitely must be an output of continued dialogue.
Mr. Singh: Chair, through you, to the members of national security. In terms of the whole thrust of movement of people as it relates to national security and this Committee's role and function where foreign affairs is concerned, I just want to have clarification on something I read recently. Of course, we all would agree where deportees are concerned in terms of strengthening a Caricom institution. Of course, if persons from Trinidad are deported or somebody from the Caribbean is deported or vice versa, it may affect the strength of Caricom in terms of how we look at it but I am zooming in on national security.
I just want to have an understanding of, when persons of Caricom, the group in Caricom is held, at let us say our Immigration Centre, I want to understand what are the costs associated with that activity in terms of—because I read you have to wait for the resident country to pay some fee or something like that for that person to go back to their home territory. I just want to have an understanding in terms of the whole foreign affairs thrust here—we are thrust with here. And if you can give me an example of instances where persons from Caricom are held in Trinidad and Tobago, held at the Immigration Centre and the process by which those persons go back to their home territory, the cost associated and if we bear it or who bears it. Thank you, Chair.
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Thank you. Through you, Chair, persons end up at the Detention Centre if they are in breach of the immigration laws and that goes for anybody. What happens when we encounter anybody in breach of the Immigration Act and its Regulations is that they would go through a process of interview to determine their immigration status, whether they are in the country legally, illegally. They are then either detained at the Detention Centre depending on the risk involved or they may be put on what we call “an order of supervision”, which means that they remain with some person who has vouched for them and is willing to support them until we go through a process of a special enquiry as outlined in the law.
At the Detention Centre what happens is that they still go through the same special enquiry process and we try to ascertain, one, their identity, which has to be done first of all, whether they are in fact a national of any country and when
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they appear before the special enquiry officer it depends on whether they are given voluntary departure or they are ordered deported.
Now, if they are ordered deported, what tends to happen they either purchase their own ticket or if they cannot afford to purchase their own ticket then the State, that is the State that is deporting them, in this case Trinidad and Tobago, will have to bear the cost of the repatriation to their home country.
In some instances, for example, if the person has been convicted for some criminal offence, that person has to be escorted. And in escorting them it depends on where they are escorted to. They may require one, two or three escorts. Three escorts, if it is a flight—a journey that takes more than eight hours. Two escorts depending on the risk. For example, they might be considered some risk on board the aircraft and therefore they need to be detained somehow and they need two escorts or they may just need one escort depending on the nature. 4.00 p.m.
Their length of detention is determined by whether or not we can identify them and how soon we are able to acquire a return ticket for them, either them and, of course, if they need escorts, and there are varying factors. They may opt to get their own ticket and then their family would purchase that ticket, we make arrangements for them to leave. If the State has to pay for it, then we have to get approval from the Permanent Secretary to purchase tickets for that individual to return. So, it just depends on different factors.
A lot of the times if we cannot identify them or we do not have travel documents for them, we have to await a travel document from their home country. Of course, if there is a mission here we can get it easily; if not, then we have to get it from their home country.
Madam Chairman: Mrs. Ghandi-Andrews, sometime last week I read in the newspapers, I am trying to remember this story, where currently in our prison we have persons to be deported, and there was this argument I recall, who will pay the airfare?—whether it is the country where these people would be going to or whether it is Trinidad? What if it is a situation like that? You are deporting people, should we pay the cost or should the receiving country pay the cost?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: If a State is deporting an individual, then the State bears the cost. As far as possible, we try to get persons to purchase their tickets. If they are unable to purchase their own tickets, then the State will have to bear the cost of their repatriation because the State is the one deporting them to their home country for some infraction of the law.
Mr. Singh: As a follow up to that point raised, do you all have an idea as to what are the numbers like in terms of persons waiting, you know, or waiting to be deported by the State or in a case where Caricom nationals? I do not know if you all have them in groupings or how you all, you know, treat with it. But can you all give us an idea as to what the numbers are like?—in terms of, you know. So I just want to have an idea as to the cost to the State is that relation?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: The number of persons at the detention centre fluctuates, and it rolls over a lot of the times. There are persons who as at today we perhaps have just over 90 persons in detention and that includes males and females. That figure may go up depending on if any exercises are conducted and foreign nationals are held and found to be in breach of the laws. If persons leave then, of course, the numbers go down. So it really is not a set number of persons that would remain in detention. The detention centre has, optimally, capacity of 150 persons; that number could be increased to a maximum of 200.
There are times when we have had well over 200 persons who we can detain at the detention centre and that is when we would do an assessment to determine whether or not the persons can be released on an order of supervision, although we have had instances where persons even though we put then on an order of supervision simply disappear and we cannot find them. So that is why we weigh whether we detain them at the detention centre where, yes, there is a cost to the State, and we have done some calculation where it perhaps costs us about $300 TT a day to keep them in detention. And we have to weigh the cost of detaining and the threat that they pose to society as against anything else. So, that is where we have to do that risk assessment as immigration officers in determining whether they should go in the detention centre. Obviously, if they have been convicted for a criminal offence, they have to remain in detention until repatriation.
There are some persons who may have entered the country illegally and we cannot identify those individuals, and then there are some persons who may have come in legally, but have been found to be involved in some illicit activity. Right? So it is just an assessment. Apart from that, you look at whether they have some place of abode where, as I said
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before, somebody can be vouching for them and would be willing to support them while we take the due process under the law.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Thank you very much. Going back many years ago, Caricom would have undertaken two particular initiatives to help with our drug trade, one of them was the OPV which Trinidad would have paid for and managed however, it would have been to traverse the waters of the, I think in particular the southern Caribbean, and this was to counter the drug trade.
Now, we all know what has happened with regard to that contract being cancelled. And subsequently, and this is perhaps within a year or so we had then purchased a long-range vessel, and you can correct me if I am not using the right terms. My question is: What has been the effect of the cancellation of the OPVs in terms of the drug trade and that particular gap in terms of the statistics related to the cancellation of it? And then now with the long-range vessel, what is the scope of it in terms of the extent of traversing of the waters? Do they do only the Trinidad and Tobago waters or is that extended to the rest of the region? So that was one initiative which I questioned. The other one would have been the radar systems which would have been put into some of the islands in the southern Caribbean as well, and I think that was a successful intervention at that time. My question to you: Could you give me the facts as to the success of it; and what is the up-to-date position with it; and where are we going next with regard to these radars?
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, through you. With respect to the OPVs project and the most recent long-range vessels, we do not have the statistics available to us by way of what is the actual capability of those vessels, but given the fact that the agencies that were intended to have the responsibilities for the operationalization of those initiatives fall within the remit of the Ministry of National Security. We may attempt to provide that answer in writing.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Having regard to radar systems?
Mr. Lynch: I am afraid the same will have to apply, and we will pursue, we will investigate to what extent we can or may provide some statistics as far as the capabilities of that integrated radar system. Say again, Ma’am.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: What are the capabilities and the success of it and has it been successful, and where do we go next with it?
Mr. Lynch: With respect to statistics as it pertains to the success of it, to some extent some of these security arrangements at the operational level, that is an interconnected radar system, provides a measure of surveillance as a means to an end. But in the end, as far as what types of interdictions that were made as far as drug transhipments and so on, it may be difficult to locate exactly in statistical form what has been the impact of a particular surveillance mechanism.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Well, it surely has to get measured. Surely it must be measured; if you are to determine the success, it must be measured in some way or another and perhaps you can give me that information in writing.
Mr. Lynch: Okay.
Mr. Charles: Thank you very much. Given, and this is more a question of your opinion. Given that the United States with the largest navy with submarines, et cetera, and radar systems, they have been unable to stop the haemorrhage, the flow of drugs into that country, is it a myth that we have in Trinidad and Tobago that there are mechanisms that exist somewhere that would stop the flow, of arms and ammunitions and drugs to Trinidad and Tobago? And I say this in the context of the fact that we have to face reality, what we are facing, what we are capable of dealing with, and what resources do you need?—instead of having some idea that perhaps it could be solved.
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, through you, it is certainly not my remit to be able to confirm whether the US border management system is or is not able to treat with the inflow of illegal substances or persons into their jurisdiction. But as it pertains to the Ministry of National Security with the mandate for the security of our State and so the interest of our State particularly, our enduring interest, of course, a fundamental aspect of any State’s responsibility to its citizens is to provide security. So that any attempt that is made by the State through its own development of its operational and legislative frameworks, as well as the extent to which we cooperate and collaborate with our international partners, becomes the fundamental responsibility of any State to its citizens. So that certainly the effort to ensure that we provide some measure of security to our citizens will always be the mandate of every State.
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Mr. Charles: Some measure and mandate to ensure security, but at some stage we have to have data. Do we know or have we attempted to find out how much drugs passes through Trinidad and Tobago; how much has been blocked, given expenditures on vessels, various expenditures on vessels; what is required to reach a stage or to give the assurance to citizens of the country that this drug problem we will a have measurable impact on that problem? Because all I am hearing and this transcends many years is that, “we are doing, we will solve, there are”, but nobody is saying that 40 tonnes drugs that come to Trinidad we intend within four years to reduce that by 60 per cent and thereafter 10 per cent annually. I think the society is waiting for that kind of hard-core data. The question is: Are we thinking about supplying this hard data, and if so when?
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, through you. The question of being able to provide a statistical framework around the impact or the effectiveness of our various security initiatives is in and of itself a process of building capacity to do so. And so to some extent some of the initiatives that you would have spoken to are indeed means to an end. So that we made reference earlier on to the interconnected radar system, those are systems that are designed to provide some measure of surveillance to which we can begin to generate those types of statistics that you are referring to which is intended to eventually complete the circle by informing amendments to policies and strategies. So, we are part of a continuum that is supposed to develop as we make interventions and investments into key aspects of our national security architecture.
Madam Chairman: The question to Mr. Lynch. Mr. Lynch, from where you sit in the Ministry of National Security, how has the Ministry of National Security adjusted its national security policies to advance regional integration? Is it successful? Where are we at this point in time?
Mr. Lynch: Madam Chair, as lead government in the quasi Cabinet for security, Caricom quasi Cabinet, we would have led as by way of a number of initiatives to assist from the security aspect of the regional integration effort. By extension it would mean that our different initiatives that would have been implemented in Trinidad and Tobago would have redound to the benefit of the process of regional security. For example, we were the first country in Caricom to establish a cyber- security strategy. That would have been provided to the Caricom security review system that would have ensured that other Member States for instance were able to see what we are building by way of a legislative, as well as an operational framework around matters of both terrorism, cyber security and a couple of other initiatives. So that what has happened is, there is a superimposition to some extent on some of the national initiatives towards the regional system of integration on matters of security.
So there has been benefit because as the other Member States of the region build the capacity based on some of our national initiatives being shared with them, there is a commonality of capacity development that is taking place across the region, and that redounds significantly in a number of ways, again, I am referring to what the team from trade would have said before. There has to be a certain measure of security in the region that facilitates trade and economic development, cultural exchange and a number of other initiatives.
So that while we make the point that security is the fourth pillar in Caricom, to some extent it is a fundamental framework upon which other pillars are allowed to flourish, because the reality is, if you do not have a certain measure of security, then the stability that fosters economic and trade development and so on may not be as achievable as desired.
Madam Chairman: Is there an attorney to answer this question? The Caribbean Court of Justice, I read somewhere in the research that only four countries in the Caribbean are with the Caribbean Court of Justice, sees the Caribbean Court of Justice as their final appellate court. What could be done to assist in regional integration to bring the other Caribbean countries on board? Foreign Affairs. No. We did foreign affairs already.
Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Madam Chair, I do not think we are in a position to answer that question.
Madam Chairman: Okay. But I was thinking that, at some point in time it has to be addressed, that whole issue about the CCJ and how we view the CCJ, but we will leave that for the time being. Any further questions? Only questions on national security.
Mr. Charles: I have one.
Madam Chairman: Sure.
Mr. Charles: On page 4, indicated that one of the impediments to a deepening and facilitating regional integration is bilateral tensions due to immigration issues. Do you care to elaborate on what are these tensions, which countries? We
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hear that citizens of Guyana are not treated with respect as say citizens of the Bahamas. Is this true, and could you elaborate, please? Thanks.
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Through you, Chair, I think in terms of the bilateral tensions that were referred to in this document had to do with the issue of the Jamaican nationals and the furore that that created when the Immigration Division would have refused entry to a number of persons. Suffice it to say though that the Immigration Division does not discriminate with any nationality in terms of them seeking entry into Trinidad and Tobago. The legislation outlines certain criteria for entry. And even in the decisions of the CCJ, Madam Chair, in one matter, the CCJ also highlighted the fact that there are certain conditions under which States have a right to refuse entry to individuals. For us, if someone is not meeting the criteria for entry and this is anybody, they can be refused entry and they will be refused entry. And there is redress under the law where they can appeal the decision of the officer who is refusing them entry, and then that has a process to go through.
I do not know that we have been treating or I would dare say that we have not been treating anybody unfairly or favouring any national over the other. You seek entry into a country and there are guidelines set out in law for the Immigration Division to follow and that is what we do.
Mr. Charles: Thank you very much. The information available to me, is it correct that Haitians who are members of Caricom are treated differently than say citizens from Barbados or St. Vincent in any respect or are they treated absolutely equally?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: I think the only issue with Haitian nationals and that is on a regional level, Haitian nationals require visas for entry while other Caricom countries do not require visas for entry. And I think that decision is beyond me and that is really a decision of the heads.
Madam Chairman: I have my final question to national security. And the question is simple, might be complicated. I am the Member of Parliament for Port of Spain South and it includes the area of Woodbrook, and St. James. And I have noticed over the last year or so probably more than that, an influx of Venezuelans in every nook and cranny, in every restaurant and other places. I have also been reliably informed that they are very much prominent in the Chaguanas area also. My question to you, Ms. Ghandi-Andrews, well, of course, through your PS: When these persons come into the country what sort of time frame is given to the nationals of Venezuela?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Venezuela nationals via an agreement with Venezuela can be allowed to stay in the country for up to 90 days without a visa.
Madam Chairman: Ninety days—
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Yes.
Madam Chairman:—without a visa.
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Without a visa. And once they satisfy the criteria for entry, then they would be granted 90 days.
Madam Chairman: Ms. Ghandi-Andrews, after 90 days what happens?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: After 90 days that individual is supposed to leave or seek an extension of stay. If they remain illegally in the country and they are then picked up by immigration or even police may pick them up in an exercise and hand them over to the Immigration Division, then that whole process of identifying and putting them through the special enquiry process kicks in. So that is typically what happens.
We do not have the resources to go out and determine, well okay, all of these individuals have overstayed their time in the country and try to find them. No country has the resources to do that. We do from time to time engage in joint exercises with police and other agencies and conduct an exercise on the same Ariapita Avenue, we did it sometime last year where 20-something nationals were picked up and have been processed. So it is an ongoing thing. And we cannot say because there is a presence of the persons all over that they are breaking the law. If we find them working without a work permit, yes, they can be prosecuted under the Immigration Act and some have been, but there is a process.
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And while we are seeing large numbers, historically large numbers of Venezuelans have come into Trinidad and Tobago, and the statistics would show that there is actually a decrease in the numbers arriving at an official port of entry.
What we are saying now is that there are pockets of them throughout the country. So before where they might have stayed in one area, you are now seeing persons of Venezuelan nationality going to different countries inclusive of Tobago.
When immigration does get a report, we would investigate and try to locate these individuals and determine their immigration status. And once they are legally in the country and they are not in breach of any of the laws, then there is really nothing that you can do.
Madam Chairman: Okay. Ms. Ghandi-Andrews, it begs the second question. There must be some mechanism whereby these persons come in to your country for a period of 90 days initially, so you must have a listing, there must be some data, you must have some sort of data on these persons. These 100 persons have entered Trinidad and Tobago, so you check at the end of 90 days to see whether they have all left the country or if some are still here and whether they are being processed, as you said, whether they have asked for an extension for a further 90 days or whatever. What happens? What is the mechanism that you as immigration, national security can determine whether persons are here illegally? What do you do?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: And it comes down to the question of resources. Because at the end of the day, Chair, and if I could just give you some statistics. In 2016 we had 40,000, well 39,209 Venezuelans in Trinidad and Tobago who would have arrived.
Madam Chairman: How many?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Legally.
Madam Chairman: Thirty-nine thousand—
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Thirty-nine thousand, and those are persons who are—
Madam Chairman: In 2016?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews:—in 2016, and in 2017, and these are all visitors and were allowed entry legally, so these are not persons who have been refused. Out of that number of persons seeking entry, just about 725 were rejected which represents about 1 per cent of the individuals seeking entry. In 2017, there was a reduction, and there arrived 27,611 Venezuelan nationals.
Madam Chairman: Okay. How many of those persons would have returned home?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: Of that number—
Madam Chairman: Of the 39,200?
Mrs. Gandhi-Andrews: The 39,200—38,339 would have departed in that year. Now, bearing in mind how the statistics would be if somebody would come in, let us say, in December and they would have a three-months’ stay which would then take them to February of the next year. All right? So the figures here in terms of numbers of persons who would have left is the figure that would have departed in 2017, right?—or 2016. This figure is the 39,000 would have referred to those persons.
So what we are seeing and if I go through even statistics over a five-year period, the average persons, number of persons who would have overstayed in the country represents somewhere about 3 per cent of the numbers who would have arrived legally. Right? And that is what the figures over a five-year period would have showed us; that is just about 3 per cent.
Now, granted there are persons who may be smuggled into Trinidad and Tobago and there is no way for the Immigration Division to know how many persons have been smuggled into the country given our geographic location. So, I can only surmise that there may be persons coming in illegally, being smuggled into Trinidad and Tobago, and once we
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are alerted or once we pick up any of those individuals, then the due process will take place.
Mr. Charles: So, I am hearing that Haiti is a fellow Caricom country, and Haitian citizens require a visa, but a Venezuelan citizen who belongs to a country that is not part of Caricom can come and visit us unimpeded for 90 days. And I know this is beyond you, but I think collectively as citizens we have to tell Haiti we are sorry.
Madam Chairman: You know, Mrs. Ghandi-Andrews, you know, why I raised it is because I think as a Committee we are concerned and especially I am concerned because of what I see on the ground outside there. You know, they are in everything. They are in all the eating places, you know, the nursing homes, you know, small establishments, hotels, wherever, family lives, et cetera, they are entering, they are entering. And I think that something, you know, some mechanism should be put in place to monitor. Yes, I agree with free movement of people, et cetera, but I think that we have to monitor the situation because it could become very tedious on us at some point in time financially. Any further questions?
So, we move now to the Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries. Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries, Ms. Angela Siew, could you, please, opening remarks and introduce your team, please? Ms. Siew: Thank you, Madam Chair, and good afternoon to you and the other members and my other colleagues here this afternoon. I just wanted to say that, you know, we are pleased to appear before you to assist you in any way we can to facilitate this enquiry into the regional integration and strengthening of Caricom institutions. With regard to the Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries, we for the most part collaborate among the other Member States to facilitate trade in animal and animal products, plant and plant products, and fisheries. I have here with me this afternoon to assist and support Dr. David Kangaloo who is our Chief Veterinary Officer. We have Ms. Elizabeth Mohammed who is our Director of Fisheries, and we have Ms. Deanne Ramroop who is our Deputy Director, Research.
Madam Chairman: Yes. Ma’am. Minister.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Thank you, PS, for your introduction. In the context of the region, I examined the statistics of trade with regard to agricultural produce, and of course, could not help but notice the negative balance of trade. Now that negative balance of trade might be directly linked to overall agricultural production, and I would like you to speak to that.
But even if that is so, in particular with regard to the objective of reducing the food import bill and of course, increasing our exports and diversification being a main agenda item for us at this time with our economic challenges and going forward, within the context of your strategic plan, what are your plans for reversing this imbalance of trade within the region? And I would imagine that there are some plans. Are there particular crops or produce which the region may require that you might be pursuing, the growth of these particular produce; the production of these items? Are there any particular crops that you might be pursuing with regard to reversing this imbalance of trade? And what other strategic initiatives there might be to reverse this imbalance of trade?
Ms. Siew: Okay. Through you, Madam Chair. Yes. There is a negative balance of trade. Production over the last five to six years has been more or less consistent, there has been no real increase in agricultural production. But suffice it to say, Trinidad and Tobago despite that, we have seen some surpluses in some areas. As a matter of fact, I believe it is in about eight counties we have seen some surpluses.
With regard to what are we doing strategically, we at the Ministry consistently over time have been training our farmers in marketing, and agri-business, marketing and export for the local market and also for foreign countries within Caricom. That we have been partnering with NAMDEVCO with regard to that training as well. NAMDEVCO, through their field officers have been training people in integrated pest management, post-harvest handling, general agriculture in addition to what we have been doing. Our marketing generally has been with regard to fresh fruits and vegetables on the local and foreign market.
So, we are looking at boosting marketing and trade in various areas, and through NAMDEVCO there has been the buyers and sellers forum where people meet and they express what they have to sell or what they want to purchase. Additionally, there is available on their website the sale and purchase, what is available for sale and purchase. All right? They also assist exporters in identifying farmers who have a consistent supply of produce that Member States can, you know, engage and so on. They also facilitate the packing for export in terms of containers for sea freight and pallets for air freight. And also with regard to—there is a sort of identifying, kind of certifying what some farmers do with regard to agricultural practices. Right? In terms of how much pesticides they use, are they using the right agricultural practices to
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produce the different commodities.
This programme assists in helping exporters and so identify farmers who have been using good agricultural practices and, of course, by doing so they will have a good produce to present to the Member State markets.
There has been, you know, some prohibitive aspects, one of which is the cost of production and also the cost of packaging because we have a large amount of processed commodities that we give to the markets. And the cost of packaging material, I am told, is one of the factors that has really prohibited export to the Member States because it increases the cost of the product to the Member State.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: May I continue. In particular then and I know that there are some incentives that are also associated with packaging, but that apart if I can drill down, are there any particular products which we produce that are in demand by the region? Or are there any products that you have earmarked for production for sale to sell within the region? And by example, we are producers of chicken, we are huge producers of chicken. Do we sell chicken to any parts of the region; is it in demand; is it that there are barriers to entry in any of those markets; what is hindering the export of chicken; are we producing enough?
But back to the original question: are there are particular items; if I were to say to you to name three products that we produce that are in demand by the region, what are those or are there products earmarked for production for the region?
Ms. Siew: Okay. A couple products that we have that we export to countries like Barbados, Jamaica, are pineapple, pumpkin, watermelon, pawpaw, more fruits. To Guyana it would be corn, ginger and bacon. Jamaica would be pineapples, frozen fish filet and chicken parts.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: So if it is that there are these products that are in demand in order to address the imbalance of trade, is it that you are now focusing on expanding our levels or increasing our levels of production so that we can address the imbalance and earn some foreign exchange? What is the strategy?
Ms. Siew: Well we, as I said, we have two issues here, the demand by the Member State for the commodity and also the price. Now, the farmers in particular, they are the ones who would indicate to us what product they want to export, right, through NAMDEVCO. And that may not be sufficient to increase the production of the produce and so on, but we can only point to the farmer that a particular country or a particular Member State, this is what they trade in. And we only get that information if the Member State say to us, look, “we want to import from you all a certain product”. So it is basically on the demand from the Member States that determines what we are going to produce.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Yes. And I know it is dependent on the demand, it is dependent on the farmer as you said, but I also think that the Ministry has a role to play in terms of a strategy for reducing the food import bill and for balancing the trade activity within the region, so, I think the Ministry has a fundamental role to play. And in that regard I am asking, there were several cross-border initiatives, but one comes to mind immediately, one with Guyana with regard to agriculture, has that worked? And could you give us some of the success stories if it has been a success? Could you let us know of the success?
Ms. Siew: The cross-border initiative with Guyana is one where 1,000 acres of land was leased and 200 out of that 1,000 was used to grow citrus. The actual details of in terms of the value that was produced out of this, we do not have, but we could bring it to you all in writing.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Okay. Is the project still alive?
Ms. Siew: The project is still alive.
Mrs. Gopee-Scoon: Ah ha. And the Ministry is driving the project?
Ms. Siew: No. The Ministry is not driving the project. The project is driven by the Citrus Growers Association.
Madam Chairman: May I ask a question, please? Besides the problem with packaging, et cetera, at page 5 of your document you gave as your main reasons for the low export of agricultural products to Caricom— you have not only production and marketing issues, but insecurity of land tenure; inadequate labour supply; praedial larceny; high cost of
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production; lack of implementation of good agricultural practices and limited use of grades and standards. How is the Ministry addressing these issues in order to deal with increasing our production levels to Caricom?
Ms. Siew: Okay. With regard to the limited use of grades and standards, as I told you, we have a division within the Ministry that does training with regard to that. In addition, NAMDEVCO also does training with regard to good agricultural practices.
Madam Chairman: How successful, Madam PS, is this training and how does it translate to increasing production levels?
Ms. Siew: It is mixed in that culturally farmers have their own way of tending to their crops, and they may or may not adhere to the training that we had given.
Madam Chairman: And what is the Ministry’s role in such a situation? To me, it is not mandatory, but it is up to the farmer whether he wants to do it yes or no. So what is the Ministry’s role, as the Minister asked, in driving the process?
Ms. Siew: Well actually, we are about to work together with NAMDEVCO to come up with standards with regard to that. Right? Right now it is voluntary, but we are of the view that if we were to institute standards with regard to how you do your farming, how much pesticides you use and so on and that is formalized, we are certain to get a good product for export.
Madam Chairman: Okay. How does the insecurity of land tenure, inadequate labour supply, praedial larceny, those three, what is the Ministry doing to address these issues there? You see, it all has to do with earning foreign exchange, and that is at the end of it—
Ms. Siew: Yeah.
Madam Chairman:—earning foreign exchange in cutting down, in reducing your food import bill. So if these are your hindrances, how is the Ministry dealing with land tenure security, insecurity, inadequate labour supply, and praedial larceny? What is happening there?
Ms. Siew: With regard to the insecurity of land tenure, as you may know that land management division has gone from Ministry to Ministry to Ministry, and has come back to the Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries. What we are doing now is that we have introduced an electronic document management system. With that system we would have on record all the approved land leases that we have, and those that are not approved; we would be able to pinpoint who owns what; what the lease was given for, because with the lease you would have a programme of development.
So, you come to us and you say, I want to do this on the land and we are going to produce, we hope to produce X amount of produce. Right? So with that now we would be able to pinpoint and to be assured of how many approved parcels of land that we have for farmers, because farmers would only get state land if they are registered farmers.
Now, with regard to praedial larceny, we have a praedial squad. We have been able to place them in various parts of the country and they have increased patrols over the last year with regard to that. So they would patrol the different areas where farmers are located to ensure that no praedial larceny occurs. We have about close to 90 officers to patrol these areas.
Madam Chairman: What about the issue of the inadequate supply?
Ms. Siew: Well the inadequate supply has the dimension where—
Madam Chairman: Of labour.
Ms. Siew: Yeah. We cannot get people who want to farm. Right? And that is the whole issue. We cannot get people who are interested in farming and doing that as an occupation. Farmers come to us and say that they cannot get workers with regard to farming.
Miss Haynes: On this issue of the low export, you know, you were talking about boosting the marketing capabilities, et cetera, but from the responses given by the Ministry, the problem seems largely a production problem, and going further, you said that the farmers come to the Ministry and tell you what they wish to export. But the way that markets work is not
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what they wish to export, but what people wish to buy. So are we producing what our markets want, and if we are not producing, is there a strategic plan by the Ministry to work together with our producers, our farmers to get us producing goods for export, and then I think that would solve our problem.
Ms. Siew: Okay. That basically is done through NAMDEVCO. They are responsible for marketing and giving people information as to what is available, who wants to buy, who wants to sell, that is their role in this whole thing.
Miss Haynes: So overall there is no Ministry initiative to get us producing goods for export?
Ms. Siew: Well, we basically do that through training, training our farmers in good agricultural practices for different produce. Right? We have our extension officers who would go out to the different farms and give them technical assistance, advice and so on for the production, but how much they produce is really dependent on the farmer.
Miss Haynes: I understand that, but I think that at some point it is not even how much they produce, but what they are producing. Are they producing things that people wish to buy? And if they are not, are we giving them, are we arming our producers with information about markets and going out there and being exporters and sellers of products as opposed to just producing something that you just want to produce, you know. Are we producing things for export?
Ms. Siew: Okay. We have been producing some market access documents which I would ask Ms. Ramroop to give you the details of what it is.
Ms. Ramroop: Good afternoon, Madam Chair, through you. Basically, what is a market access document? So, a market access document provides detailed conditions to facilitate trade in whatever the commodity is. So, you would develop a document which would outline the basic information of that commodity. So, for example, if it is hot peppers, you would have the agronomy, how it is grown and the pest and diseases that may affect that particular commodity.
Now, when we trade and we trade in agricultural produce, a country will have to set its phytosanitary conditions or its import conditions. So this market access document provides the information to guide the process in developing or for a country to determine their phytosanitary conditions.
So the access guide is important because with trade you would create new opportunities and welfare for the countries; the phytosanitary conditions and issues can be determined and therefore, be easy to facilitate trade; and the phytosanitary import requirements can be established in a transparent manner.
So, to give an example, if for example, Trinidad and Tobago is interested in exporting hot peppers, we would develop a market access document which can then be submitted to a prospective importer and this therefore, would set the tone for developing the phytosanitary conditions for importation and create ease of access for trade. So this is one of the ways in which we can support our markets in terms of looking and facilitating trade and accessing markets in these commodities. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Okay.
Miss Haynes: Okay. In your response as you went through it and again, I just would like to go back. You see, this idea of if Trinidad and Tobago is interested in producing hot peppers. My analysis of this would be, okay, are we looking at our intended export markets, what they are looking for, the goods that they are looking for? And then are we saying, can Trinidad and Tobago produce these goods to meet this demand? So, we should not be addressing this from, all right, we want to produce this so we will produce this and hope somebody buys it. We should be looking at what people would like to buy, and then can we produce it and then produce it in a way that, you know, we would increase our exports. And so that is the question I am coming at, like is this the strategic planning? Is this the direction that we are going in?
Madam Chairman: Okay. Mr. Herbert, “yuh” want to respond?
Mr. Herbert: I do not know if I can help with this discussion. [Laughter] But in Caricom countries import from the rest of the world and countries sell to the rest of world. There is a system which records imports from the rest of the world. It has to do with suspensions [Inaudible] and safeguard certificates, and maybe that might be a source of information on products which we buy from the rest of the world if we are looking at reducing the food budget.
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Mr. Charles: A follow-up question, Madam Chair. In that model do we look and say, for example, our food import bill is $4 billion annually, and within three years 20 per cent of that should be produced by farmers? And if we come to that conclusion, then what products do we make or produce or encourage our farmers to produce as a form of import substitution strategy? Because some of the things we would not—the economies of scale would not allow us and whatnot. But it seems to me that we are in an activity mode. We are doing this, we are doing that and we are doing the other, but what is the net effect of this?
And I have been looking because I have been hearing this argument since I was in A level in the 1960s, we need to become self-sufficient in food, and I suspect that the next 60 years will be the same. Is there a target, a time frame which we are working towards so that we can reduce our significant food import bill?—or we will be constantly repeating this issue over and over.
Ms. Siew: I think it is a work in progress, this is a personal view, it is a work in progress. We have to do it incrementally. Right? And when I say incrementally, in all aspects working with all our farmers to get to that level where they actually want to export. Right? There are particular farmers, a certain group of farmers who want to do it and then there are others who just want do it just, you know, to feed the local community. Right? How do we get those people to do more? Right? That is the issue. How do we get those people to do more? Right? 5.00 p.m.
We can only make suggestions. Right, we can put mechanisms in place for them to do so. Show them marketing strategies, show them what other countries—what they import in terms of, what they import from other countries outside of the Caricom. We could point that to them, but it is whether they are willing to do it. We can only provide training, we can provide advice, we can provide technical assistance. But it is if the farmer is willing to do it.
Madam Chairman: My question is to Dr. David Kangaloo. I will tell you what, what you see in me is what you get. I am not too heartened with what I am hearing from Agriculture, not heartened at all. So I want to ask Dr. Kangaloo a question, as to what is your vision, you see for the Ministry of Agriculture playing a role? What is your responsibility with respect to regional integration and the strengthening of Caricom? We see here in your report, you have given, I read it twice, and the problem here is production levels are low.
The balance of trade, well it is negative over the last five, six years. From where you sit in the Ministry, I want to get a different perspective, I am hearing—Madam PS, I am hearing you. But I want to get a different prospect. You know, they say in football a fresh pair of legs, a new prospect, I know nothing about football, I just listen [Laughter] right. So I want to get a different prospect from you, Dr. Kangaloo.
Dr. Kangaloo: Thank you, Madam Chair. My expertise is in the area of animal health, I would like to say, first and foremost. However, I will attempt to answer your question, as best as I can.
Regional integration as we all know, has been in the works for and in the news for many, many years. Even before I was born, and many models and attempts to have all the 15 members of the Caricom community, many attempts have been— some successful and unsuccessful. If we have to go forward as a region, we will need all 15 Member States to be on the same page with respect to many issues, especially intra-regional trade. They said that cricket is the only thing that really combines— the whole region is united with cricket, but I think we need to have more activities than cricket to unite the region.
They say charity begins at home, and the region could be very strong once united, however, easier said than done. Attempts have been made before, we can go way back to the Federation that was attempted in the 1960s and that did not work.
The issue of trade as PS Norris Herbert mentioned earlier, is of paramount importance to the region, however, we face fierce competition from other countries with this free trade. We need to really put our heads together by whatever means, whichever mechanisms we may use in the Caricom, put our heads together whether it is at the level of the conference of the Heads, or at the COTED, put our heads together to try to agree on certain issues and the way forward.
Having said that and having attended a few COTED meetings, it is easier said than done. The countries in the Caricom have different needs at any point in time, they have different views, they have different trade aspirations and then, you know, the politics always play a major role in each country.
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Each country is a sovereign State and there must be harmonized approaches to situations and addressing issues. Once there is a harmonized approach to say, trade in plant products or trade in animal products, I think that will be a step in the right direction and we are working towards that.
The Caricom Chief Veterinary Officers, the committee is working hard and spending a lot of time addressing issues related to trade within the region. Currently, there is a Caricom inspection and trade protocol, which will go to the Legislative Affairs Committee of Caricom next week and that is a protocol which has been in the pipeline for over six or seven years. But finally we have a document, and that is a protocol that can be utilized by any one of the Caricom countries to deal with the importation of products, animal products outside of the region that is coming into the region, any third country or intra-regionally, within the region.
So, we are making headway, we are contributing in a small way, hopefully we will have good results in the future, when it comes to intra-regional trade. Because many of the Caricom countries import from the USA, from Canada, from UK and we do not import from each other. We do not import animal and animal products from each other in the quantities that we import from other countries, from third countries outside of the region—
Madam Chairman: Do we have the supply? Do we have it, that we can do that?
Dr. Kangaloo: Well, recently I can tell you we have. In my personal opinion, Trinidad and Tobago, we do not produce the amount of beef, mutton or pork to export, we consume everything that we produce. Chicken, we consume all of the chicken that we produce, all of the poultry that we produce. However, recently the Caribbean Agricultural Health and Food Safety Agency, which is CAHFSA, it is a Caricom organ, one of the organs of Caricom, they conducted a risk assessment in six countries in Caricom: Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad, Belize, Surinam and Guyana, a couple years ago, and that exercise was conducted to determine the eligibility of these six major producing poultry countries in the Caricom to export to the region. There were 11 processing plants in those six countries that were approved to export to one another within the region. That was adopted by the COTED in October last year.
We have not seen any country import poultry from any of those six countries, following the conclusion of the risk assessment and COTED adopting it. But we expect that also to commence in the not too distant future. So we are making headway.
Recently, the Caricom Chief Veterinary Officers, we worked on some protocols with the movement of sheep and goats throughout the region, and the Chief Veterinary Officers have signed off on it and COTED has signed off on that. So that is another protocol that we agreed on.
There is also the protocol with boar semen, for artificial insemination. We signed off on that protocol for the movement of boar semen throughout the region. And, you know, the Caricom Chief Veterinary Officers, we meet annually and we also have meetings, electronic meetings, and we discuss issues pertaining to trade in agricultural products, animal and animal products specifically. Because we realize we have to, as we all say charity begins at home and it should begin in the region. So, we have been moving towards that.
Madam Chairman: Okay, thank you, Dr. Kangaloo. Ms. Lueandra Neptune, is Ms. Neptune here?
Ms. Siew: Ms. Ramroop and Ms. Mohammed.
Madam Chairman: No, I am talking about agriculture.
Ms. Siew: Ms. Ramroop and Ms. Mohammed.
Madam Chairman: Okay, is Ms. Ramroop here?
Ms. Siew: Yes.
Madam Chairman: Ms. Ramroop, give me your perspective as Deputy Director of Research. Give me your perspective on where you think—how you think this Ministry can play a role, a greater role in the integration movement? What can we do to up production levels and whatnot, to trade with each other? How are we going to do that?
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Ms. Ramroop: In terms of plant health, and plant trade and plant health products, within the region we also have a grouping that is referred to as the Caribbean Plant Health Directors. And within this grouping, you would have the directors from various countries, who would come together to discuss matters, priority matters with regard to plant and plant health products. Apart from, for example, priority pests and diseases within the region, they will also discuss other issues, for example, trade issues. So that is a mechanism that exists within the region and there is dialogue within the region in terms of the plans and directives in terms of moving forward.
One of the key things with trade, from a crop protection point of view and accessing markets will be to meeting the region’s, the countries individual phytosanitary conditions. Because countries are all signatories to the WTO SPS Agreement and they would all set import conditions for commodities. So within the region, one of the ways in terms of moving forward—so you have targeted commodities, so Trinidad and Tobago would have, let us say targeted commodities for export and I would have used the example for hot peppers, you would have heard before pineapples or so. Within this grouping, we would discuss, like I said, or produce market access documents, which is like your passport for trade, for market access to countries.
So that is one aspect. And if you coupled that with the production aspects like the training—For example, with one of the divisions in our Ministry with production aspect in training farmers with good agricultural practices, in these targeted commodities and you marry that with your market access document, that is one way in which, a mechanism in which you can actually try to boost your exports for these commodities. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you, well this brings us to the end of our session. We had intentions of finishing at five o’clock, we have gone over by 13 minutes, but I thought it was a very good section. I have a little question mark with respect to Agriculture, and I would really like to bring you back. But, today, I thought that we did quite well and the Committee is much better off in terms of understanding the position of each of the entities here.
I invite now closing remarks in this order from Ms. Angela Siew, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture; Ms. Vashti Jitman, I am not going in that second name, and I am not going there. Ms. Vashti Jitman followed by Mr. Norris Herbert. 5.15 p.m.
Ms. Siew: Thank you, Madam Chair. The Ministry of Agriculture, Land and Fisheries wishes to thank you all for having us. We recognize that you may not have been satisfied with regard to what is happening in agriculture with regard to trade and so on, but I want to assure that we have been making every effort to get farmers to think outside of the box through our training, our officers like our Chief Vet, Ms. Ramroop, going out there into Caricom discussing different issues as it relates to trade in the particular products—animal and animal products, plant and plant products—and coming back with information, recommendations which we will impart to our farmers.
That notwithstanding, we are committed to regional integration, and we continue even as we do our work here in Trinidad and Tobago through our different mechanisms out there—through the CBO meetings as Dr. Kangaloo would have said, through plant directors’ meetings, through the regional planners on policy. Right? All these different groups we take part in and we utilize the information that we have gotten to assist us in the work that we do. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you.
Mrs. Shrikrisen Singh-Jitman: Madam Chairman and members of the Committee, I wish to thank you for the opportunity to be here this afternoon, and I trust that given our discourse, the Committee as well as the public have been provided with clarity concerning the Ministry of National Security’s role as it pertains to security and the strengthening of the Caricom institution. Thank you.
Madam Chairman: Thank you very much. Mr. Herbert.
Mr. Herbert: Thank you, Madam Chair. To you and the members of the Committee, in my discussions I think I made one point which I want to reiterate—finding the balance between national interest and regional interest, and I think that I want to point the Committee to three simple areas where focus can be placed on. There is something called contingent rights in the treaty which allows someone who is moving to provide services to move with their spouse, their parents. If we can get that at a regional level, I think that would help the movement, the services aspect of the CSME.
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Secondly, I want to point to the area of public procurement which is now being rolled out as a protocol, and that provides the opportunity for countries to tender for activities in other countries—businesses in one country—so that it helps with the whole regional identity.
And lastly, I want to point to a third area, which is the CCJ. If we can move as a regional body to incorporate the both jurisdictions as a region then that will help in our identity as we go forward. So I think that those are three areas that the Committee may want to look at as they do their work much further. So thank you, Chair, to you and your Committee once more.
Madam Chairman: Thank you very much to you, Mr. Herbert, and the other two Permanent Secretaries and I want to thank the media, I want to thank the staff of the Parliament and, of course, the viewing and listening audience. This meeting now stands adjourned.
5.20 p.m.: Meeting adjourned.
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APPENDIX III ENTITIES ATTENDANCE RECORD
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ENTITIES ATTENDANCE RECORD JSC on Foreign Affairs
1st Public Hearing on June 07, 2017
Ministry/Entity Name of Official Position
Ministry Of Foreign And Ms. Jennifer Marchand Director, Caricom and the Caribbean CARICOM Affairs Affairs Division Mrs. Jennifer Daniel Permanent Secretary (Ag.)
Ms. Jenny Thompson Deputy Director, Caricom and the Caribbean Affairs Division
2nd Public Hearing on January 24, 2018
Ministry/Entity Name of Official Position
Ministry of Agriculture, Ms. Angela Siew Permanent Secretary Land and Fisheries Ms. Elizabeth Mohammed Director, Fisheries Division
Dr. David Kangaloo Chief Veterinary Officer
Ms. Deanne Ramroop Deputy Director, Research
Ministry of National Ms. Vashti Shrikensingh-Jitman Permanent Secretary (Ag.) Security Ms. Charmaine Ghandi-Andrews Chief Immigration Officer (Ag.)
Mr. Richard Lynch Deputy Director, International Affairs Unit
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Mr. Zeke Beharry International Affairs Coordinator, International Affairs Unit Ministry of Trade and Mr. Norris Herbert Permanent Secretary Industry Ms. Trudy Lewis Senior Economist
Ms. Dana Iles State Counsel III
Mr. Kriyaa Balramsingh Economist II
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APPENDIX IV RECENT CONFERENCES/SEMINARS ON INTEGRATION
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Recent conferences/seminars on integration submitted by the Institute of International Relations (IIR):
- Caribbean Development Bank. Regional Conference on Research Support for Caribbean Integration/CSME, November 27-28, 2006; - CARICOM Secretariat. CSME Conference for Youths, 16th and 17th June, 2011; - Caribbean Development Bank. Regional Conference on the CSME, 21 May 2012; - SALISES and UWI Mona. Conference on regional integration, Rethinking Regionalism: Beyond the CARICOM Integration Project, October 6 – 9, 2013; - The University of the West Indies Lecture Series on Regional Integration focusing on CARICOM: exploring its usefulness to the region and its future on its 40th anniversary celebrations, September, 2013.
Recent conferences/seminars related to regional security submitted by the Ministry of National Security (MONS):
- June 2016 - 7th Meeting of the Council of Ministers of the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency (CDEMA), Bridgetown, Barbados; - September 2016 - 15th CARICOM Security Management Committee (CSMC), Port of Spain; - November 2016 - Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency (CDEMA) – Organisation of American States (OAS) Regional Workshop to Support the Legal Facilitation of International Disaster Relief and Humanitarian Assistance in the Caribbean Small Island Developing States, Bridgetown, Barbados. November 2016 - 17th Meeting of the CARICOM Council of Ministers Responsible for National Security and Law Enforcement (17th Council for Ministers with responsibility for National Security and Law Enforcement (CONSLE), Georgetown, Guyana; - January 2017 - Exercise Synergy 2017, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago;
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- March 2017 - CARICOM- United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) Non- Proliferation Awareness Workshop, Kingston, Jamaica; - March 2017 – 22nd Meeting of the Senior Officials of the Legal Affairs Committee (SOLAC), Guyana; - April 2017 - 18th Meeting of the CARICOM Standing Committees of Chiefs of Immigration and Comptrollers of Customs and Excise (CICC 18), Antigua and Barbuda; and - May 2017 - CARICOM – UNSCR Regional Classification, Licensing and Verification Workshop, Kingston, Jamaica.
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APPENDIX V TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO’S CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CDF
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APPENDIX VI TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO’S AGRICULTURAL EXPORTS TO CARICOM MARKETS
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Main Exports from Trinidad and Tobago to Barbados, 2011 -2016 Barbados KGs 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 Pawpaw (Papaya), Fresh 913,644 756,000 633,990 541,630 904,950 867,525 Watermelon, Fresh 2,816,874 2,064,411 1,486,440 947,613 799,700 828,650 Pumpkin, Fresh/ Chilled 2,264,322 1,710,442 1,178,700 795,484 517,500 184,650 Pineapple, Fresh Or Dried 1,492,549 1,129,000 877,950 525,750 N/A 160,850
Main Exports from Trinidad and Tobago to Guyana, 2011 -2016 Guyana KGs 2011 2,012 2013 2014 2015 2016 Ginger 304,093 354,342 475,750 327,015 347,061 103,318 Maize (Corn) other than 2,273,504 64,424 63,975 N/A N/A 2,523,329 Seed Bacon 93,941 49,360 N/A N/A 155,527 110,664
Main Exports from Trinidad and Tobago to Jamaica, 2011 -2016 Jamaica KGs 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 Frozen Fish Fillet; Nes 1,847,327 2,677,339 1,646,283 N/A N/A N/A Pineapples, Frozen 137,025 109,689 177,470 51,166 12,541 51,166 Cuts/Offal of Fowl; Frozen N/A N/A N/A 3,420 2,272 5,553
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