NTLO YA DIKGOSI NTLO YA DIKGOSI CHAIRMAN Kgosi Puso Gaborone Batlokwa DEBATES DEPUTY CHAIRMAN Kgosi Lotlamoreng II Barolong MEMBERS Kgosi K. Boiditswe Serowe Region Kgosi I. Gaoonwe Letlhakeng Region Kgosi B. Garebakwena Molepolole Region Kgosi M. Kahiko III Ghanzi West Kgosi S. H. Kgamane Bangwato Kgosi Kgari III Bakwena Kgosi K. Lempadi Okavango Region Kgosi O. Machilidza Boteti Region Kgosi M. Malema Bobirwa Region Kgosi Malope II Bangwaketse Kgosi T. M. Masunga North East Kgosi M. Mmualefhe Chobe Region THE PROCEEDINGS Kgosi A. O. Monnaathebe Thamaga Kgosi P. K. Montshiwa Kgalagadi North Kgosi K. Moremi Batawana of the Kgosi S. Moroka Tswapong Kgosi J. Moseki Ghanzi East Kgosi T. B. Ndzonga Tutume 10TH MEETING Kgosi B. Ramokone Kanye Kgosi K. Ramokwena Maun Kgosi E. Potsoeng Ngami Region Kgosi M. Seboko Balete 29 October - 02 November 2012 29 October - 02 November OFFICIAL REPORT - TENTH MEETING OFFICIAL REPORT of the Kgosi P. Seeletso Tonota Region Kgosi P. Sekwenyane Ngwaketse West 2ND NTLO YA DIKGOSI Kgosi K. Telekelo Moshupa Kgosi T. F. Tshipe Mahalapye Region (Official Report) Kgosi Toto II Kgalagadi South Kgosi S. Esterhuizen Specially Elected P O Box 240, Gaborone Tel: 3616800 Fax: 3913103 Kgosi M. Moeti Specially Elected Kgosi M. Seemeko Specially Elected e-mail: [email protected] TH Sitting from OFFICIAL REPORT - 10 MEETING OF THE OF THE Kgosi M. M. Sinvula Specially Elected www.parliament.gov.bw 29 October - 02 November 2012 2ND NTLO YA DIKGOSI Kgosi T. Xao Specially Elected i ii i ii Printed by Government Printing and Publishing Services, Gaborone 29 October - 02 November 2012 Table of Contents

Chairman’s Remarks ...... 1, 38, 81, 135

Motions

Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance...... 10 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program...... 24 Increase of Age Limit for Corporal Punishment to 50 Years...... 46 Secretary : N. Thebe Introduction of a Non-Alcoholic Day...... 57 Ass. Secretary : M. Moreri

Proof Reading : E. Jean Questions for Oral Answer ...... 2, 38, 73, 81, 135 Layout : Bakang B. Khumanego Dennis T. Batshegi

Edited by : K. Nyanga

Translated by : K. Ben M. Kagiso B. Morakanyane

Typesetting : Hansard Reporters

iii iv Monday 29th October, 2012 Chairman’s Remarks

Monday 29th October, 2012 Government and the executive THE HOUSE met at 9.30 a.m. on programs and acts enacted by the Parliament of Botswana. (THE CHAIRMAN in the Chair) Moving on, Ntlo ya Dikgosi would like to invite you P R A Y E R S Honourable Minister to an event * * * * to be held on Saturday the 3rd CHAIRMAN’S at Botswana craft, everyone is REMARKS invited to join us on this day. The aim of this event is to interact MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI with the community and share GABORONE): ...(Inaudible) our different cultures as well both internally and externally as a as the responsibility of both way of improving ourselves as the Bogosi and Ntlo ya Dikgosi. By House as well as benchmarking this event we want to reduce the on procedures. I believe that lack of understanding of the role this House is still relevant in of Ntlo ya Dikgosi. We want to the governance of this Republic demonstrate that despite our and its Mandate has been clearly cultural differences in the House, stipulated in the Constitution of we still work together as a team Botswana. Some people have towards the development of our reservations about the Mandate country. of this House and still confuse Ntlo ya Dikgosi with the Bogosi Secondly, Honourable Members Institution. Bogosi Institution is have volunteered to take part in fully guided by the Bogosi Act the President’s initiative to assist while Ntlo ya Dikgosi mandate Batswana who are disadvantaged. is stipulated in the Constitution. They built a house for a It is very important for all of destitute person in Manyana. us especially the youth and The house will be handed over the media to understand this on Wednesday the 31st October distinction that a Member of this 2012, you are invited to join us at House is still Kgosi as guided by the Bogosi Act. Maybe our this ceremony. This is one way of dual roles confuse people. At making the community aware of Kgosi level, Kgosi is responsible the existence of Ntlo ya Dikgosi for the social welfare of their and its role in the community. community whereas in Ntlo ya Please do join us as we hand over Dikgosi Members advise the the house in Manyana. 1 Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

Earlier on I pointed out that one me start off by thanking you Mr Bogosana duties before formal ASSISTANT MINISTER OF of our objectives is to benchmark; Chairman, for the invitations appointment was issued by my LOCAL GOVERNMENT we took a trip to London for to the Wednesday and Saturday office. It is in cases like these (HON TSHIRELETSO): benchmarking purposes. I came events. I believe that I will be that payment will be delayed as Mr Chairman, Government to realize that it is important available for the Wednesday there would be no appointment deferred a number of projects for us to master our procedures event but on Saturday I will not letter to accompany a Casualty including the construction of before we learn about those of be available together with the Return which is used to instruct office accommodation because others. We benefited a lot during Minister. There will be some Accountant General to pay. of the economic downturn. this trip, and there are some elections in Mahalapye West Only on-going projects have In order to address this Chairman, procedures that we could adopt. over the weeked and I cannot been funded. Once the economy my Ministry is continuously The best thing to do is to learn miss them. The Minister is in recovers, consideration will advising Dikgosi not to allow new things, compare them to Gantsi for the celebration meant be made on how to address Dikgosana to take office before our own and adopt some if they for the elderly people, ‘Bagodi office accommodation. In the formal appointment letters are are good enough to be adopted. day’. Let me now respond to interim, my Ministry is giving issued. Thank you Mr Chairman. Batswana have to know and questions Mr Chairman. priority to the maintenance master their procedures so that and refurbishment of existing DELAYED PAYMENTS KGOSI MONAATHEBE: they can confidently compare structures through such OF HEADMEN OF Thank you Mr Chairman. their procedures with others and programmes as Ipelegeng. ARBITRATION adopt the good ones. If we do ALLOCATION OF FUNDS Regarding furniture, my Ministry KGOSI A. MONNAATHEBE TO DEPARTMENT OF not know our own procedures, has considered increasing Tribal (THAMAGA REGION): TRIBAL ADMINISTRATION then we cannot go anywhere. Administration budget allocation Of late, our nation has adopted asked the Minister of Local IN GHANZI EAST REGION Government whether he is aware by the next financial year the habit of criticising. People KGOSI J. MOSEKI (GHANZI 2013/14 to cater for, amongst are criticising one another even that payments for Headmen of EAST REGION): asked the others, the provision of furniture, where there is no need, there is Arbitration are usually delayed, Minister of Local Government:- funds permitting. a spirit of jealousy and hatred if so, how does he intend to in Botswana and if we are not address the problem. (i) when the department of Mr Chairman, I am aware that careful, we will not progress as ASSISTANT MINISTER OF Tribal Administration a nation. LOCAL GOVERNMENT will be allocated enough funds allocated to cover Imprest funds to cover office th (HON TSHIRELETSO): for Dikgosi, Secretaries and We are starting the 10 meeting accommodation and nd Mr Chairman, I am not aware Court Bailiffs in the Gantsi of the 2 Ntlo ya Dikgosi. Let us furniture (chairs and tables) that payments for Headmen of East Region are not sufficient to move on to the business of the and; House. Arbitration are usually delayed meet the need due to financial as all appointed Headmen of QUESTIONS FOR (ii) if he is aware that the constraints. In this regard officers Arbitration are duly paid on time P120 000 allocated to the ORAL ANSWER have been advised to plan the by the Accountant General. What Region is not enough to ASSISTANT MINISTER OF I am aware of was an instance cover imprests for Dikgosi, trips based on the allocation and LOCAL GOVERNMENT where a Headman of Arbitration Secretaries and Court do more with less. Thank you Mr (HON TSHIRELETSO): Let commenced execution of Bailiffs. Chairman. 2 3 Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

MR CHAIRMAN: I do not HONOURABLE economic down turn. In the in a District? We have already know if I am the only person who TSHIRELETSO: This is a meantime, Tribal Secretaries suggested that in the North East cannot hear the Minister. I do not completely new question but have been advised to secure District. You can then allocate know whether the problem is the unfortunately I am not aware suitable transport when Dikgosi double cabs or station wagons in microphone but I cannot hear of any claims which have not travel on official business. I these clusters, is it not possible? anything. been paid for. If the claims are thank you. How much time do you need to consider this matter? Thank you. KGOSI LOTLAMORENG II: there, they should be forwarded to the Tribal Administration KGOSI KAHIKO III: Thank HONOURABLE Thank you Mr Chairman. Just you Mr Chairman. Since the a follow up on the second part office and then to us as the TSHIRELETSO: Thank you Department has financial of the question, is the Minister Ministry.Currently the budget Kgosi for asking a very clear constraints, why the Department aware that this problem does is not enough but despite that question I believe that this is not only affect Gantsi East challenge, claims have been cannot consider grouping the a good idea even though some region? Does the Minister not honoured. Thank you Mr vehicles and re allocating them? people may not like it. If we can deem it appropriate to give us Chairman. They have vehicles that could cluster the regions, things would an explanation on the matter? be used by Members on official become easier. I will take this up Thank you Mr Chairman. KGOSI MOSEKI: Thank you duties but they have been with the Department of Tribal Mr Chairman, let me also thank allocated to departments where Administration, it could assist us. HONOURABLE Kgosi Lotlamoreng II and the they are not utilized fully. Why It is not like we are happy with the TSHIRELETSO: Maybe I did Minister. not take these underutilized current situation where Dikgosi not face the microphone as I was use vans while Directors use vehicles and allocate them to speaking. I said that we are aware ALLOCATION OF station wagons when attending Dikgosi in the meantime? of the concern and as it is now we SUITABLE VEHICLES FOR meetings. Mr Chairman, I are meeting with the Department DIKGOSI ON OFFICIAL HONOURABLE agree to the recommendation of Tribal Administration to see TRAVEL TSHIRELETSO: Mr Chairman, suggested by Kgosi Masunga and we will look further into it, how best to resolve the problem. Kgosi Kahiko’s question is not KGOSI J. MOSEKI (GHANZI the Director is here as well, so clear and I therefore cannot tell In the meantime, Members are EAST REGION): asked the we will not take it lighlty. Thank advised to plan the trips based if there are any underutilized Minister of Local Government you Mr Chairman. on the allocation and do more vehicles within the department. when Dikgosi will be allocated with less since we are faced Maybe if he could specify the ESTABLISHMENT OF A suitable vehicles for use on with the economic downturn. places where the vehicles are, CUSTOMARY COURT IN official travel as opposed to the We are trying to do what Kgosi then we could swap them and PHAKALANE/GABORONE current situation where they is advising. Thank you Mr allocate them to Dikgosi. NORTH Chairman. travel in open vehicles. KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE MR CHAIRMAN: Whoever KGOSI MACHILIDZA: ASSISTANT MINISTER OF (CHOBE DISTRICT): wants to ask a question should be Thank you Mr Chairman. Is the LOCAL GOVERNMENT asked the Minister of Local straight to the point. Minister aware that we even fail (HON TSHIRELETSO): Mr Government when his Ministry to claim for the duties performed Chairman, I cannot state with KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank will establish a Customary Court within Tribal Administration, certainty when my Ministry will you Mr Chairman. Honourable in Phakalane/Gaborone North how does the Minister intend to allocate Dikgosi with suitable Minister, why don’t you and adjacent areas for easier rectify this? vehicles because of the current cluster regions into five areas access to justice. 4 5 Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF in Phakalane since there are a However, due to financial supplied before the end of LOCAL GOVERNMENT lot of people in Phakalane and constraints, I cannot state with November 2012. Regarding the (HON TSHIRELETSO): Mr surrounding. certainty when Kachikau will be provision of internet services, Chairman, my Ministry has no declared a service centre. I thank the infrastructure for same is HONOURABLE plans to establish a Customary you. unavailable. In this regard, my TSHIRELETSO: There is no Court in Phakalane/Gaborone Ministry has no plans to provide delay Mr Chairman. I said that KGOSI MMUALEFHE: Thank North. However, the situation internet services. I have not there are no plans to establish a you Mr Chairman, Honourable will be monitored including received any official request Customary Court in Phakalane/ Minister please speed up this in the adjacent areas to justify from the Kachikau community Gaborone North. In the meantime, process. the need for the establishment for the approval of Deputy Kgosi. these areas will continue to be of the said Customary Court. SUPPLY OF RESOURCES That notwithstanding, according serviced by the Block 8 and In the meantime, these areas AND PERSONNEL TO to the First Schedule of the Broadhurst Customary Courts, will continue to be serviced TRIBAL ADMINISTRATION Customary Court Act, the post of however, the situation will be by the Block 8 and Broadhurst HEADQUARTERS IN Deputy Kgosi is not provided for. monitored to justify the need Customary Courts. I thank you. KACHIKAU It is only the post of current Sub for the establishment of the said Chief that is provided for. This is KGOSI MMUALEFHE: Customary Court. Thank you Mr KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE adequate because currently the Thank you Mr Chairman. This Chairman. (CHOBE DISTRICT): Sub Chief is sufficiently assisted matter should be looked into and asked the Minister of Local by Headman of Records and five considered soon. Even though DECLARATION OF Government to state: I do not have the population KACHIKAU VILLAGE AS Headmen of Arbitration. (i) when Tribal Administration statistics, when we look at the A SERVICE CENTRE FOR Mr Chairman, Government Headquarters is going to population of Phakalane and CHOBE WEST VILLAGES has frozen creation of new surrounding areas, a Customary supply Kachikau Kgotla KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE posts. In this regard, I have not Court has to be established within with faxes and internet (CHOBE DISTRICT): considered creating a post for this area for easier access to services; asked the Minister of Local Assistant Tribal Secretary for justice as well as understanding Government when Kachikau (ii) when the Kachikau Kachikau Kgotla. Furthermore, the cultural procedures. village is going to be declared community’s request for the current staff of one (1) Clerk MR CHAIRMAN: You are a service center for Chobe West Deputy Kgosi will be of Court, one (1) Assistant Clerk now confusing me Kgosi, I do villages. approved; and of Court and one (1) Senior not know if you were asking (iii) if he will consider creating Clerk Assistant is sufficient for ASSISTANT MINISTER OF a supplementary question or a post of an Assistant Kachikau Kgotla. I thank you. LOCAL GOVERNMENT thanking the Minister for the Tribal Secretary (ATS) at (HON TSHIRELETSO): Mr MR CHAIRMAN: We will response Kachikau village. Chairman, I acknowledge that adjourn for tea and resume at 11 KGOSI MMUALEFHE: I in an effort to take services ASSISTANT MINISTER OF o’clock and when we resume I just wanted to share with her closer to the people in Chobe LOCAL GOVERNMENT believe that the Minister would but I would like to ask the West villages, the District has (HON. TSHIRELETSO): have corrected her response and Minister what causes the delay in considered to establish a service Mr Chairman, a fax machine delete the word Sub- Chief as per establishing a Customary Court centre in Kachikau Village. at Kachikau Kgotla will be the Bogosi Act. 6 7 Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Monday 29th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

PROCEEDINGS Tribal Secretary for Kachikau I can only respond after we KGOSI MMUALEFHE: SUSPENDED FOR TEA Kgotla. Furthermore, the current have established all the offices Thank you Mr Chairman, before staff of one (1) Clerk of Court, one which have the infrastructure I ask a supplementary question, MR CHAIRMAN: Good (1) Assistant Clerk of Court and and then we can connect the let me thank the Minister for morning once more Honourable one (1) Senior Clerk Assistant is internet service. Thank you Mr promosing to provide the fax Members. I had requested the sufficient for Kachikau Kgotla. I Chairman. machine in November. Minister to correct her response, thank you. please do so Honourable MR CHAIRMAN: Let me MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Minister. KGOSI LOTLAMORENG advise Members that when Mmualefhe, could you please II: Thank you Mr Chairman, asking supplementary questions, ask a supplementary question. HONOURABLE in all the Customary Courts in they should not bring new TSHIRELETSO: Please pardon Botswana, how many of those questions but rather address what KGOSI MMUALEFHE: On me Mr Chairman and thank you have active internet? Thank you has been asked and responded to. the internet services request; the for giving me the time to correct infrastructure that was installed Mr Chairman. KGOSI MACHILIDZA: my response. Mr Chairman, a since the Nteletsa II project is Thank you Mr Chairman. fax machine at Kachikau Kgotla ASSISTANT MINISTER OF there. The Secondary School is When the Minister responded, will be supplied before the end LOCAL GOVERNMENT connected with internet but I do of November 2012. Regarding she mentioned that she has not (HON TSHIRELETSO): Mr received any official request not understand why the Minister the provision of internet services, Chairman, I do not have the from the Kachikau community is saying that the Kgotla cannot the infrastructure for same is statistics of how many Customary for the post of Mothusa Kgosi. be connected. The other question unavailable. In this regard, my Courts have internet services as Is the Minister implying that is that, of all the Dikgotla in Ministry has no plans to provide I have not done research, I can she does not trust the judgement Botswana under the leadership internet services. I have not of their representative in this only respond to the question in of Dikgosi Kgolo, how many received any official request future. House? Will this be done upon from the Kachikau community the community’s request only? of those do not have Bathusa for the approval of Mothusa KGOSI MALOPE: Thank Thank you Mr Chairman. Kgosi? you Mr Chairman. Honourable Kgosi. That notwithstanding, HONOURABLE Minister, you said that there is no HONOURABLE according to the First Schedule TSHIRELETSO: Pardon infrastructure for the provision TSHIRELETSO: We respond of the Customary Court Act, the me Mr Chairman but this is of internet services in Kachikau. to the questions as they are, post of Mothusa Kgosi is not the mover of the question did completely a new question provided for. It is only the post When are the Customary Courts not give us information, he and it needs statistics which I of current Kgosi that is provided which have the infrastructure just said that the community of cannot give from the top of my for. This is adequate because going to be supplied with internet Kachikau has long requested for currently the Kgosi is sufficiently services? Kanye Kgotla has been Mothusa Kgosi then I responded head. I have to research from assisted by Headman of Records wired and the only thing that is to that by saying we have not our records. Maybe the question and five Headmen of Arbitration. left is the connection. received any formal request from could be asked some other day. the community. We trust the Thank you. Mr Chairman, Government has HONOURABLE leadership of Dikgosi, it is only frozen creation of new posts. In TSHIRELETSO: This question that we were responding to what KGOSI MMUALEFHE: this regard, I have not considered is similar to the one which was has been asked Mr Chairman. Thank you Mr Chairman, and creation of a post for Assistant asked by Kgosi Lotlamoreng. Thank you. thank you Honourable Minister. 8 9 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you. high blood pressure and sugar have Headmen of Arbitration on matter eloquently to the cabinet With that, we have completed diabetes which need expensive B3 salary scale and they receive as the motion does not request today’s questions and we move medication. If Members have the same payment except that for anything new. I therefore on with today’s Order Paper. medical aid cover then it could there is a difference in notches do not wish to waste any more PROVISION OF be easy for them to… but some of them benefit from time in my presentation. Let me the deductions made from their thank Kgosi Machilidza for the MEDICAL AID COVER KGOSI MACHILIDZA: salaries and they also enjoy clarification to add or mention AND GRATUITY Thank you Mr Chairman, the medical aid cover. This is why the word deduction. A deduction FOR HEADMEN OF mover of the motion is debating I request the Government to will be made from the existing ARBITRATION ON something that is different deduct some amount of money allowances. Thank you Mr ALLOWANCE from what has been noticed. It from the existing allowances and Chairman. would be easier if the mover Motion not for the Government to give of the motion specified that the them a raise or get some money MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you deduction should be made from Kgosi Ramokwena. I believe that KGOSI RAMOKWENA elsewhere to cater for that. Mr their allowances, otherwise Honourable Members have been (MAUN REGION): Thank Chairman, the Government you Mr Chairman. I would the presentation is confusing. listening to Kgosi Ramokwena’s is concerned about poverty like to table this motion and Let us talk about the deduction presentation on his motion. I hence the poverty eradication urge Honourable Members to being made from what they now give Members the floor to programs. We have to look support me. This is a straight currently receive. Thank you Mr debate. at poverty eradication from forward motion. Honourable Chairman. Minister, this House requests different angles, when a certain KGOSI SEKWENYANE the Government to deduct a KGOSI RAMOKWENA: amount of money is deducted (NGWAKETSE WEST percentage from the allowances Thank you Mr Chairman. I take and after five years that money REGION): Thank you Mr Chairman. Kgosi Ramokwena paid to Headmen of Arbitration it that the presentation is clear is claimed then one could get has tabled a good motion that for medical aid cover and themselves livestock. This will that the deduction should be a deduction be made from the assist in the sense that they will gratuity. Even though there are made from their allowances. allowances of Headmen of other funds that the Government Maybe the word that is missing not be compelled to work for a Arbitration. They will be able is involved in, this one will be is “deduction” but it becomes long period of time due to fear of to get loans from National particularly for Headmen of clear as I present the motion. The losing their income. This could Development Bank. The mover Arbitration. I think this is an deduction would cover gratuity, alleviate poverty in a way Mr of the motion should have easy arrangement to be made which they would get after every Chairman. requested that Headmen of especially by the Government. five years, and medical aid cover We once requested that they Arbitration be employed on Part of their allowance should Mr Chairman. It is evident that be employed on Permanent Permanent and Pensionable be saved in this fund so that they it is difficult to join a medical and Pensionable basis but the basis. This is not the first time get their gratuity after every 5 aid cover as an individual, Government could not do so due this motion is being presented years. They should also have even for the Permanent and to financial constraints. Now to the House. The Minister medical aid cover through that Pensionable employees. The we are saying the Government should state why they cannot fund, Mr Chairman. Let me just Government puts aside funds for should deduct from the be employed on Permanent and give an example, nowadays we their retirement packages and allowances they get. I know Pensionable basis? I support the have chronic diseases such as medical aid. Mr Chairman, we the Minister will present this motion. Thank you.

10 11 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you MR CHAIRMAN: I believe MR CHAIRMAN: If Kgosi It wholly depends on the mover Kgosi Sekwenyane. Honourable that we understand each other. has agreed to the addition of of the motion whether we Members, when I gave you the This is why I had said that when the word deduction then there respond to the part that we have floor to debate this motion, I a motion is moved, the objective is a procedure to be followed in prepared for or not. Thank you asked if Members understood is that the mover presents it as it amending a motion. The Minister Mr Chairman. the presentation made by is on the order paper. If there is has shown concern that if the KGOSI LOTLAMORENG Kgosi Ramokwena. I therefore an amendment, Members have word “deduction” is included II (BAROLONG): Thank you request Members to debate the to follow the procedure guiding then it would give the motion a Mr Chairman. I believe that the motion basing on the what was an amendment to a motion. totally different meaning. The Minister understands the gist of presented by Kgosi Ramokwena They should also consider if that motion would not be as it appears the motion. However, she said and not bring in any new subjects amendment makes a significant on the order paper. It would mean that it would be difficult for which will cause confusion. change to the motion noticed. that Kgosi may have to defer the her to respond, if we were to Members should not derail Kgosi Ramokwena, I do not motion to a later date and recast adopt the amendment brought such that I may be compelled know if you had amended the the motion, that is what I get suggested by Kgosi Machilidza. to call Kgosi Ramokwena to motion and included the word from the Minister. The Minister will have to go the floor to explain some of the “deduction” more so that Kgosi HONOURABLE and consult with the relevant aspects that were not even in pointed out that the motion is TSHIRELETSO: When we Ministry dealing with allowances his presentation. Let us consider straight forward. talk about deduction, it includes and establish whether it will be that, I can see that the Minister another ministry which deals KGOSI RAMOKWENA possible for that deduction to be wants to say something, please with finance and we have to (MAUN REGION): Mr made. I therefore request Kgosi do so Honourable Minister. consult with them and establish Chairman, the word was not part Ramokwena to give the Minister ASSISTANT MINISTER OF how possible it is. We were of the motion, it was inserted time to consult with the relevant LOCAL GOVERNMENT in a position to respond if the during the presentation. When authorities. Thank you Mr (HON TSHIRELETSO): motion remained as it is in the Kgosi Machilidza mentioned it, Chairman. On a point of clarification Mr order paper. However, if the I realised that that is the word I Chairman when the mover of the motion is amended to include MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable have been looking for because motion presented his motion, the the word “deduction” then Members, my interpretation was I am talking about deduction word “deduction” was added, we have to consult with those that Kgosi Machilidza did not being made from the existing something which gives the relevant authorities who are not call for an amendment but only allowance. The gratuity and motion a completely different part of the Ministry of Local sought clarification because there medical aid should be created meaning. Does that amendment Government. If we respond to is a procedure to be followed from these deductions. That mean that we focus more on it, if the motion, our response would when amending a motion. One was my explanation and I did that is the case then we will not be not be adequate as it would not has to propose an amendment not request for any amount in a position to respond because cover the deduction part as we and thereafter the new motion of money should be added to we will be responding to a totally had not prepared to respond is debated, after incorporating different motion. I would then the allowances the Headmen to any amendment. If we were the proposed amendment. request for a deferment of the of Arbitration are getting. I dealing with salaries then it was So, I believe that what Kgosi motion so that we come prepared appreciate the assistance offered going to be easy for us but here Machilidza was saying was not and consult other stakeholders. by Kgosi Machilidza. we are dealing with allowances. an amendment to this motion

12 13 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion even though the suggestion I now move on to gratuity Mr on the new post. I agree that allowance. I do not have a confused the mover of the motion Chairman; a person who gets an the Government should deduct problem with the word deduction and he might have said a few allowance as a form of payment a certain amount of money as the money will be deducted unnecessary points but I believe does not qualify to get any to cover gratuity and medical from the allowances and we are that the mover has presented retirement package including aid. Mr Chairman, it is very not calling for an increment on the motion well enough to give this gratuity we are talking possible for the Government the allowance. I am also of the the Minister the opportunity to about. General Order 72 states to pay Headmen of Arbitration view that the Ministry which is respond after the debate. Let us that allowances do not qualify gratuity, it is something that can here to respond to the motion move on with the debate as the an officer for retirement benefits. be looked into and considered. can only contact any other motion is not amended. This allowance is a lifetime It is very sad when Headman stakeholder after the debate. payment, and they only cease to of Arbitration on allowance They can only be contacted after KGOSI KAHIKO III get it when they die. It cannot passes on and the family expects the outcome of the debate so that (GHANZI WEST REGION): be compared to the allowance funeral benefits and they are they take proper action. I support Thank you Mr Chairman. for students as that one ceases told that their family member I support this motion for the motion as it will assist with when the students complete their does not have any benefits the current situation we are in. reasons that I will submit to the studies. Mr Chairman, it is not fair whatsoever. This on its own is Thank you Mr Chairman. Honourable House. I want to refer for one to be paid an allowance not good and it is disheartening. to General Order 157.1 which for a very long period, some are Headmen of Arbitration get a KGOSI GAREBAKWENA outlines that, “the Government paid allowances for over 35years P2 800 allowance and I think (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): is not responsible for payment but at the end of the day they do P400 could be deducted from Thank you Mr Chairman I also of medical or dental treatment of not get any form of retirement their aloowance for gratuity and support the motion. I agree public officers or their families, package. Their colleagues are on medical aid cover. Mr Chairman, with Members who are of the but membership of the Botswana payroll yet they do the same job. it is not easy to save money at the view that we should debate Public Officers Medical Aid It is not good to treat two people bank on our own. the motion based on the way it Scheme (BPOMAS) is available doing the same job differently, Moving on to medical aid cover; appears on the order paper. The to officers and their families. this is violation of human rights I think it is a good initiative responsible Ministry to respond Membership contributions will and we need to rectify this looking at the fact that the to this motion is the Ministry where applicable; be deducted situation so that all Headmen of Government is spending a lot of Local Government despite from the officer’s salary. Arbitration are at par with one already on health. Including the amendment to the motion. Government bears half the costs another. With that Mr Chairman, headmen of arbitration on If there is underperformance of such contributions”. The I support the motion. Thank you medical aid cover, would reduce due to low staff morale at the Government is not responsible Mr Chairman. those costs. Other Government work place, the Ministry of for payment of medical treatment of public officers but she has KGOSI BOIDITSWE employees are on medical aid Local Government is held to find a way to connect the (SEROWE REGION): Thank cover and they have a choice of accountable. Mr Chairman, like Headmen of Arbitration getting you Mr Chairman. I support where to seek medical attention. other Members have said, we allowances with the medical aid this motion more so that I was An arrangement will have to be are not calling for an increment service providers so that they can promoted to Topisi in September made with the service providers of allowances but we are saying benefit from the arrangement as to perform the duties of Headman who are willing to assist and that the money should be well. of Record and I am still learning deductions will be from the deducted from their allowances.

14 15 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion However, I want to highlight that who use Botswana Public Moving on to address the our best to look presentable by the allowances paid to Headmen Officers Medical Aid Scheme gratuity issue. The Government picking the best of our attires of Arbitration are very low so, (BPOMAS). I believe that the has been advised to reduce for the meeting. I also stand to it becomes very hard to save Ministry could take this medical the Public Service by the support the motion because the money to use in the future, that aid cover issue and consult with International institutions. Kgosi mover has presented it so well saving could be done with the the private sector to come up Ramokwena is only saying that and has a vision. Honourable assistance of the Government. I with programs which will make the Government should find a Members, we are all aware of support the motion. Thank you this work. Mr Chairman, in 2006 way to connect with the service the economic downturn and we Mr Chairman. when I took office, some Dikgosi providers and facilitate the do not know when the economy were paid through cash, when I deductions. We are not calling will recover. This is the time KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH asked why that was the case, I for the subsidy on gratuity or for us to make those kind of EAST DISTRICT): Thank was told that no one has consulted employment on Permanent and savings. It is possible that the you Mr Chairman. I stand to the bank to make payment Pensionable terms. The motion Minister of Health could cancel support the motion. I once had arrangements. I personally called says, ‘find us the means to free medication; these are the a discussion with Headmen the Barclays Bank manager and I facilitate the deduction of money situations which have prompted of Arbitration in my region believe the Permanent Secretary from the allowances by saving Kgosi to bring the motion to about their conditions of work. Mr Raphaka has made reference for the rainy days and that if it the House so that we prepare They indicated that one of the to that last week, we sat down is saved, the money will be used ourselves in terms of saving. A things they were interested in with all Headmen of Arbitration to drive the economy.’ Therefore, report has shown that Batswana is medical aid. I then drew up and reached an agreement with Mr Chairman this motion is valid; do not have a culture of saving a proposal and submitted it to Barclays bank. They then opened Headmen of Arbitration deserve and we only save if our money two(2) local companies run by accounts. It was reported at senior better, they have served this is deducted directly from the Batswana. Just last year, one of management forum, that is why it country and most of them form salaries. I believe that Members the companies came back and ended up being rolled over to this the first phase of the democratic have debated the motion well expressed that they are willing nation. I believe that if given the process of the Republic. They run and they mentioned that the to explore the proposal further. opportunity, the Private Sector our wards and maintain the peace companies to provide services They realized that there is money could assist the Government and stability of the Republic. Mr are available, companies such as in the rural areas. Botswana Post more so that Botswana wants to Chairman, it is a concern for us to Botswana Life, could look into see Dikgosi in public putting on and cellular companies have be a financial hub. We have kept this proposal. There are about so much capital in Government torn clothes; that causes concern 2000 Headman of Arbitration proved that money is available in and we move that we should give rural areas. Initially the private coffers. The Government in the country. I believe that is still overwhelmed by the them the power to secure their if the motion passes then the sector did not want to invest in future. Thank you Mr Chairman. the rural areas, but now they are responsibility of providing regions can be clustered and a willing because everyone wants expensive services. The best KGOSI MACHILIDZA bank will be authorised to make to maximize their market share. way is to develop the private (BOTETI REGION): Thank the deductions. Mr Chairman, I am looking at both medical sector by privatising some of the you Mr Chairman. Kgosi this will assist in securing their aid and gratuity. I know that the services. The private sector has Masunga is right about Dikgosi future. This could also develop Government subsidizes medical the capital and can raise equity appearing in torn clothes in the private sector like Kgosi aid cover for public servants through partnerships. public. Even ourselves, we try Masunga has said, because 16 17 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion we are trying to shift from behalf. If there is need for further service providers are not private being reviewed, initially a person Government dependency. We consultation after we debate while others have partnerships was allowed to get a lump sum have “pay as you Earn” services this motion, the Minister can with the Government. An when they retired but it was in banks and other companies then contact those stakeholders. example will be where the observed that some were careless where the policy holder claims The Government compels us Government employees in spending the money and at a certain amount of premium to provide terminal benefits apply for loans from private present only a certain percentage after 5 years. I once tried ‘pay as for our herd boys whereas we institutions, the Goverment is paid out and then the balance you earn’ service and I claimed do not get anything from our facilitates the processes between is paid in monthly instalments to after 5 years. These are some employer when we retire. In this the service provider and the avoid this poverty we are talking of the things which assist when case we are not asking for any employee. Like Kgosi Masunga about. Another example that was one wants things like loans. We increment from the Government, has said, the Government only given was that the Government are all aware that we have been we are only requesting the has to facilitate the possibility of should assist people who cannot depending on cattle but of late, Government to deduct from the Headman of Arbitration finding develop their plots so that they we cannot make it with cattle already existing allowances to a service provider who can do not end up selling them. alone. There are other forms of cater for gratuity or retirement assist in preparing the retirement This is where the Government investment like shares. package and medical aid cover. packages or a funeral cover. This should come in to prevent That is the motion at hand. If is a good initiative, given the fact We have been told that the poverty. When the Cabinet briefs the Government cannot handle that the Government is trying to Government has decided to give us in different forums, they this, they can find a company eradicate poverty. people an allowance as a form of always encourage us to save. so to accommodate these headmen payment to avoid being accused The Headmen do not want to the Government should assist of arbitration, something which of not caring. We appreciate the be in poverty and increase the in our savings. Mr Chairman, Kgosi Masunga has highlighted. efforts made by the Government Government’s burden, the way I think when one talks about The money will roll down to the despite the challenges. The I see it, the Government should medical aid schemes, it follows economy and the Government P2 800 they are getting is a lot be the one concerned more than that there has to be deductions. will grow as this would become of money, something can be the Headmen of Arbitration I had thought that the Minister a business transaction. This is deducted from that and they themselves. Mr Chairman, if we would think about deduction a large number of people and will still be able to survive. Mr look carefully into this matter, when she received the motion they bring in a lot of income to Chairman, I Support Kgosi Headmen of Arbitration stay in because obviously when we the Government. Thank you Mr Ramokwena’s motion. Thank their posts for a longer period talk about schemes then we are Chairman. you Mr Chairman. of time than any other employee talking about deduction and this KGOSI MOETI II and for them to go empty handed should not bring any confusion to KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI (SPECIALLY ELECTED): is not fair. No one wishes for the motion. Kgosi Ramokwena REGION): Thank you Mr Thank you Mr Chairman. I agree it to be like that. That is why I took it for granted that when Chairman. I support the motion. with Kgosi Potsoeng that this feel the Government should be one talks about a scheme there The Minister seems to have a motion has been well debated and concerned more than the mover is no need to highlight the word problem with the word ‘deduct,’ it is a good motion. It is a simple of the motion and even us as deduction, I therefore feel that Mr Chairman. The Minister matter because the main thing Members of this House. Just to it does not change the motion. is our ambassador, he liases here is facilitation, which has cite an example, we have had Thank you Mr Chairman for with relevant authorities on our been done before. Some of these cases of retirement packages letting the debate on the motion

18 19 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion continue and for notifying the being debated. I was happy with us to respond to something that aid cover for permanent and House that the scheme deals with Kgosi Masunga’s proposal. If the has only been said verbally. The pensionable employees. Since deduction naturally. Thank Mr motion was presented the way Ministry agreed to respond to the we have proposals that the Chairman. he said in his proposal, there motion after we sought advice. private sector be facilitated was no way any Ministry could into running this facility while MR CHAIRMAN: Thank It appears like even the amount negate it. Mr Chairman, we get the Government contributes a you, Kgosi Moeti. I believe to be deducted has not been ideas from the leaders just like percentage to the cover; we do that Honourable Members have agreed on, it can either be the one which was directed to the not have the power to do that debated and I will now give the P400 or P200. Kgosi Masunga Government to advise Headmen as the said group of people are Minister the floor to respond to has already consulted with of Arbitration on allowances not permanent and pensionable. Kgosi Ramokwena’s motion. his Headmen of Arbitration, to save or the Government to When we calculated the Medical however, there may be those facilitate saving by engaging aid cover contributions for them, ASSISTANT MINISTER OF who have not been consulted. a service provider with the it will cost P2 683 656, and if LOCAL GOVERNMENT Maybe we could advise that they Headmen of Arbitration. We have we add that to the allowances (HON TSHIRELETSO): should be consulted then we insurances, post offices, save as then we have P56 356 000 from Thank you Mr Chairman. Let initiate the deduction. It is a very you earn services, insurances our part. It would be difficult me also thank the Honourable good development for Members which allow for policy holders to for the Ministry to undertake Members of this House. I will to suggest that a certain amount claim after every 5 years, I was such payments. We are all aware have to confirm outside the of money be deducted from the once a councillor Mr Chairman that we have requested for the House if Members are addressed allowances every month. By the and I was getting an allowance. establishment of 1000 posts, we as Dikgosi or Bokgosi. I time they retire, their package I saved using an insurance were looking at the number of heard one Member addressing will be better. We could call company while others did not headmen of arbitration who did Honourable Members as a meeting for all Headmen of and when we retired it was a sad not get any form of payment Bokgosi but as far as I know, we Abitration on allowance and talk situation for those who did not have Dikgosi or Magosi. Moving to them, together with the director by then yet they performed the save. The situation that Dikgosi on Mr Chairman, I believe that of Tribal Administration, Mr duties. This is how the issue are talking about right now, when a motion is noticed to the Seboko. Then we call a Pitso for started Mr Chairman and the happened to those who did not Ministry, that Ministry has to Dikgosi, Headmen of Arbitration Government considered paying save. prepare for the response and not so that that this matter is explored allowances to them as she could to go and consult . The motion With regards to this motion, we further with the service providers not afford to put them on salary states that the Government prepared the response based on just like we always do with because there were outstanding should provide the gratuity and the request that the Government Members of Parliament. Basing payments to be made to other the Ministry has understood it should provide gratuity after on the outcome of the debate Mr Headmen of Arbitration. This that way. The Ministry did not every 5 years. Our main focus Chairman, there is no how the has come as a request to give have any problem in listening to was ‘to provide gratuity every Ministry of Local Government them a chance to work hence the the presentation of the motion five years.’ If the word deduction can negate the motion. but most Members were talking formed part of the motion payment of allowances. When about deduction from allowances initially, then we would have Now moving on to the medical we include medical aid cover and yet the motion noticed is the prepared our response in line aid cover aspect, the Government gratuity benefits, we would not opposite of that which was with that. It would not be fair for contributes part of the medical be able to pay their allowances.

20 21 Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Monday 29th October, 2012 Provision of Medical Aid Cover and Gratuity for Gratuity for Headmen of Arbitration Headmen of Arbitration on Allowance - Motion on Allowance - Motion This is a good motion, even challenge is the way the motion KGOSI RAMOKWENA done research on Members of though I do not have the powers was written. I do not know how (MAUN REGION): Thank Parliament and Councillors but to amend it, the motion can we will go about it because the you Mr Chairman. Pardon me what I know is that at the end of be amended to request the motion requests the Government Mr Chairman, I have contracted their 5 year term, they are paid Government to advise people to to provide yet the Government influenza, pardon me if I am their termination benefits. The save for their future and that way does not provide for those on not audible. I believe that Government can do the same we would gladly agree. As it is, I allowance. I seek assistance on Members have debated well but with Headmen of Arbitration. do have a problem in supporting this one Mr Chairman, I do not the Minister confused me when Since the Minister has a problem this motion especially based on have a problem with the ideas she said that if they agree to the with the word “to provide”, I the way it has been noticed. We which have been presented but motion, they will have to use will therefore present the motion are still struggling to pay other on the motion, the Ministry their money. I have made it clear another time after amending it. I cannot afford to provide what is that we are not talking about people given the funds we have, being requested. Thank you Mr will then be brief when presenting money for the Government. Mr we cannot afford this much Mr Chairman. it but the Minister should also Chairman. Even if Headmen of Chairman, the Government is be brief in her response and she MR CHAIRMAN: I do not get Arbitration were to contribute, the just like God. The Government should agree with the amended you Honourable Minister, please fact still remains that they receive conclude, you are representing should be concerned about motion. Mr Chairman, I am allowances and the Ministry the Government, what is your developing people’s lives. When going to correct this motion and will be forced to facilitate the take on this motion? we propose ideas with shortfalls, resubmit it to the House for arrangement. Mr Chairman, the the Government should cover further consideration in the motion should match the debate. HONOURABLE us. Like Kgosi Moeti said, next sitting to avoid confusion. Members mentioned the P400 TSHIRELETSO: It is not indeed the Government should Let me thank all Honourable possible to make that provision deductions but I personally feel be concerned about our welfare. Members for debating this Mr Chairman, looking at the way that P200 will be enough since the motion has been structured. I therefore believe that we motion accordingly. Thank you the money attracts interest over However, if the motion was cannot be punished for talking Mr Chairman. the years. However, we have amended I would take a decision about deduction but instead the MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you to consult them because they on behalf of the Government. Government should consider Kgosi Ramokwena. Let me may have other commitments. The motion is straight forward, that we have made an effort. advise Honourable Members If an agreement is reached then it requests the Government to Honourable Assistant Minister, that according to our Rules of we should conduct workshops provide, and it does not state there is a Setswana say, “ngwana Procedure, when the mover of for Headmen of Arbitration and that the Government should wa koma o utlwa koma ka the motion presents a motion to inform them that the Government provide guidance to Headmen molodi,” and I believe that the the House, they are given time of Arbitration. That is where we is willing to assist, through Minister has an idea of where to present, stating the terms are at, the Government cannot certain service providers, to save we are heading. There is another of their motion and providing afford. Thank you Mr Chairman. for their future. The Government saying which goes, “half a bread all the reasons. At that stage, will be used as security as MR CHAIRMAN: Your is better than nothing. ” All those the Chairman does not have we are the ones providing the conclusion is clear, when you give the Minister an idea of what the power to stop the mover allowance. This is not something were responding, you were not the motion is about, amendments of the motion and it is only at the Ministry would negate. Good audible. Thank you Honourable can be made. Mr Chairman the end of the presentation of ideas have been presented but the Minister for that response. this is very clear, I have not the motion that the Chairman

22 23 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion opens the floor for Members to INCLUSION OF LEARNED programme. It is said that there debate. Members are supposed BUILDING OF CIVIL PARLIAMENTARY were challenges. To address to debate the motion as it appears SERVANTS’ HOUSES COUNSEL (MR those challenges, the Ministry in the order paper and cover the UNDER IPELEGENG RAMOKHUA): Thank you of Labour and Home Affairs reasons the mover has presented. PROGRAM Mr Chairman. Kgosi Boiditswe held a workshop. The document When the Minister responds to requests that the mover should says; “the people’s Ministry has the motion, they cover all ground Motion give claritiy in order to clear the held a stakeholder workshop from presentation to the debate KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI confusion. Otherwise we have for the review of Ipelegeng to itself. When I give the mover the REGION): Thank you Mr to fulfil the requirements of the identify areas of improvement chance at the end of the debate, Chairman. I request to withdraw Rules that there should be no to the noble programme”. It goes he has to thank the Minister and the motion as I have a document dissenting voice. However, there on to state that, “the workshop his colleagues, then conclude the is no other express provisions in which was addressed by the which covers the subject I motion, not to correct anything. the Rules stating that when the Minister of Local Government, wanted to talk about. Thank you if there is any amendment dissenting voice is there, do we Honourable Peter Siele aimed Mr Chairman. proposed then there is a subject the question by putting it at identifying feasible and cost provision for that and Members MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you. to the House for determination. effective enhancements or are free to amend the motion. Kgosi Potsoeng requests that his Therefore let us give the mover alternatives to the programme. a chance to explain what is in the I am not the one who calls for motion be withdrawn. I believe The Ministry of Labour and document and maybe it could Home Affairs has allocated P100 amendment. That is not within that it is in order because the clear the confusion and Members million for materials to carry my power as the Chairman. I just Rules of Procedure provide that, “ a motion or amendment may would agree that the motion be out more construction projects wanted to advise on that aspect withdrawn. Thank you sir. under Ipelegeng Programme in but if there is something wrong be withdrawn at the request of the mover by leave of the House the 2012/2013 financial year.” with the motion then we are MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi before the question is fully Potsoeng, maybe you have Minister Peter Siele said that going to continue with the debate put thereon and if there is no reasons for your withdrawal of the project includes extension unless there is one Member dissenting voice.” Do Members the motion, the law states that and construction of staff houses who clarifies on that matter and agree with Kgosi to withdraw the there should be no dissenting These include; guard houses, now I take it that the motion as motion? voice. drift fences, school boundary been presented, debated and KGOSI BOIDITSWE walls and culverts. This is the responded to and we are going KGOSI POTSOENG: The reason why I want to withdraw (SEROWE REGION): If it is document is available from the to procedurally close the motion. the motion. Members could get procedural, may we know what Parliament and Members can get If there is another motion to be the document says? the document and present it to tabled then that is beyond me, it it upon request. It covers what I wanted to address, it is said that the relevant authorities so that wholly depends on Members, but MR CHAIRMAN: I do not see they will be covered in Ipelegeng we make requests for our regions they will not be correcting what why the mover of the motion should provide reasons for programme. I would like to and see if the projects will be we are concluding today. I will withdrawing the motion, but quote something through you financed or not, just like the now put the question. the Parliamentary Counsel can Sir, from the list of projects to be document states. Thank you Mr Question put and agreed to. advise on that one. covered through the Ipelegeng Chairman. 24 25 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI comes to an end, there should areas because VDC is supposed Members as it is now 12:30, we REGION): I would like to be something to show. The to provide accommodation for shall adjourn for lunch and as proceed with the motion Mr Government has said that there is officers. VDC does not have we do that, let me request Kgosi Chairman. The motion says, an economic downturn therefore budget but through Ipelegeng to liaise with the Honourable “That this Honourable House there is shortage of funds hence they can construct the houses. Minister of Local Government requests Government to include no projects will be undertaken There is no accommodation for because from what I gather, he building of houses and offices for during this period, I think that staff especially those who go is talking about the Ministry of civil servants under Ipelegeng some of the money intended for on transfers; this is not fair to Labour and Home Affairs. We project, especially in rural the projects have been directed officers Mr Chairman, they end need to understand that Ipelegeng areas.” Honourable Members, to Ipelegeng. I do not know if up resuming their duties late programme falls under the I present the motion before you other villages benefit from the because they have a challenge Ministry of Local Government as Members of Ntlo ya Dikgosi programme or not. My village, of accommodation. Tribal which may have different views so that we look at it together. I for example; has a population Administration office in Semboyo regarding the arrangement. would like to give this House of 3000 people and Ipelegeng was constructed through It should not appear like the a brief history of Ipelegeng. It engages only 30 people per Namola leuba programme. Ministry of Labour and Home emanates from the Namola leuba month on rotational basis. One Areas such as Makakung, Affairs represents Ministry of (drought relief) programme. This would wonder when everyone Bodibeng, Botlhatlogo, just to Local Government. Maybe we drought relief programme was else would be able to benefit mention a few, also had their are withdrawing the motion used in the construction of staff because the main aim of this offices constructed through the unnecessarily. The Minister of houses and offices especially is for all people to benefit. In a same programme. Ever since Local Government may have a in rural areas as a poverty case where they will be building construction ceased to be part of different response from what the eradication measure. There was houses, a lot of people will be the Ipelegeng, there has not been Ministry of Labour and Home a budget for this programme engaged. Close to 100 people any developments even though Affairs says in that report. Let us and through it we have Tribal were engaged in a month under individual benefit. We are not adjourn for lunch, we resume at Administration offices and staff the Namola leuba programme against people being engaged but 2:30 p.m. houses which were built by but currently under the Ipelegeng their engagement should be tied Village Development Committee programme, only 30 people are to production. Their work should PROCEEDINGS (VDC). Nowadays Ipelegeng engaged in a month. This is not be accounted for and we should SUSPENDED FOR LUNCH programme does not provide for fair on both the Government not do the same thing over the MR CHAIRMAN: Let me the construction of staff houses and the community because at years, there should be progress. welcome you once more but focuses mainly on cutting of the end of the programme, the Let the Government include Honourable Members and grass and construction of holding Government has to show the construction of staff houses under the Assistant Minister of pans. Construction of staff projects which were undertaken. the Ipelegeng programme as the Local Government. When we houses should be included in this Street sweeping and cutting of adjourned for lunch, we were new Ipelegeng programme. trees is a continuous exercise. Ipelegeng employees are being addressing Kgosi Potsoeng’s paid P400, and they come cheap Honourable Members, we The Government should consider motion which he had thought of in terms of labour. Material may withdrawing. I will give Kgosi have structures that were built including the construction of Potsoeng the floor to state his through Namola leuba. When staff houses under Ipelegeng be expensive but labour is cheap. position. the Ipelegeng programme programme especially in rural Thank you Mr Chairman. 26 27 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion KGOSI RAMOKWENA have to be cut every now and which will have to be rectified. Even for their accommodation, (MAUN REGION): Thank then but when one talks about Thank you Mr Chairman. Local Government has to you Mr Chairman, this is a very a house, no one can dispute the provide for them through the KGOSI BOIDITSWE clear motion which addresses the importance of such property VDC. This covers teachers as (SEROWE REGION): Thank truth. We have accommodation in terms of being used to gain well as Police Officers. I still you Mr Chairman. I have been shortage, especially for teachers financial strength. Lastly Mr maintain that other Ministries listening to the debate and I as well as other employees. are using Local Government Chairman, if Government gets would like to differ with the If I could give an example, in to achieve their milestones. I donors, there has to be something others Members. I support the Boseja, VDC has assisted the therefore believe that as much as concrete to show the donors what motion that the construction private sector by providing we want Ipelegeng to construct their money has been used for. of Government staff houses be accommodation. Mr Chairman, house, other ministries should It would be unfortunate if we included under the Ipelegeng let the Government funds be take part also because they all showed them some bushes and programme. Mr Chairman, used in something that can be benefit. They should collaborate other Ministries use the Ministry accounted for. When we build say we cleared this bush but it and construct a block of offices of Local Government yet the houses through Namola leuba, has now grown again. Thank you for their staff. This could also Ministry receives the same we are sure that the house will Mr Chairman. develop the regions as we would share of budget with the rest of be there through the years and see National registration for KGOSI SEELETSO the Ministries during budget generations would use them in example, occupying their own (TONOTA REGION): Thank allocation. This Ministry is the the future. That is why I support office space, that is why I support you Mr Chairman. I am not sure one which covers even remote the motion. The motions we this motion that Ipelegeng should if I should support or negate the areas. Ipelegeng and VDC fall debate here do not benefit this construct buildings. motion but let me debate based under the Ministry of Local House only Mr Chairman, they on what the mover has presented. Government, this is why I feel KGOSI SEEMEKO: On a benefit the Government as Maybe the way this programme that other Ministries use Local point of order Mr Chairman. I well. We are one team working operates differs per region. Government because if there are do not understand whether Kgosi towards a common goal for the In our region, Namola leuba any services to be provided, they is saying that he is talking on development of the nation. Mr programme constructs houses use local Government budget to behalf of the Ministry of Local Chairman, we all know that for council staff, culverts as well do so. Government because the motion when one has houses to rent out, as clearing bushes. These people is directed to the concerned it counts as something which cut the trees which harbour Let me cite an example Mr Ministry. He is confusing the improves their life. During Chairman, national registration thieves Mr Chairman. This is House; we do not know if he drought seasons, when cattle die, why I have pointed out that I office has a lot of work in remote supports the motion and if he the houses are not affected. am not sure if I will support the areas but they do not build their does, let him debate it in such a We are not undermining the idea motion as I am not sure if their staff houses or offices, Local of road maintenance, as well as Ipelegeng programme does not Government has to come in to manner that he does not speak construction of firebreaks but construct houses. In the Bobirwa provide the service. In our village, on behalf of Local Government. they are a continuous exercise /Mmadinare area, they build the Omang staff occupy Kgotla Maybe I do not understand and just like the mover of the motion houses and even wire them. If this offices to provide their services. if only he could clarify then we has said. There are projects is not the case across all regions Furthermore, they are hardly ever could follow the debate, thank which we cannot avoid, trees then it would be an anomaly there. They are always on trips. you Sir. 28 29 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Thank depending on what members been advised in this House about to consider reviewing the wages you Mr Chairman. The reason of the community wanted. The the present economic downturn; that they are getting. That is why I said I will speak on only disadvantage we have is the mines have been closed before all I have to say, thank you Mr behalf of the Ministry of Local economic downturn, this may and manpower reduced in Chairman. Government is because it is hamper the implementation of some instances. It was a critical KGOSI MMUALEFHE overwhelmed. Other ministries the motion. situation for the entire country. (CHOBE REGION): Thank you should take part in what the Honourable Members, we have We are fortunate because the Mr Chairman. I stand to support Ministry is doing especially different issues in our different Government has taken a stand the motion as well Mr Chairman. when it comes to the issue of regions and this decision to to assist the nation. We should The motion requests that the staff and office accommodation halt the construction of houses remember how it used to be like responsibility of constructing in rural areas. I do not dispute the through the Ipelegeng program in the past. It used to be very staff houses for staff who are fact that they should construct was not implemented without tough Honourable Members transferred to remote areas should houses through Ipelegeng but all reason. The economic downturn as compared to the current be given to Ipelegeng program. Government Ministries should affected the rural population situation. We have been told However, I am confused because take part in this whole exercise. the most. Livestock rearing has recently about the unreliability of the document that I have here I even highlighted that the also decreased. Since they rely our rains. We are not even certain outlines projects which can Ministry of Local Government mostly on livestock rearing if we will be able to plough. be done through Ipelegeng gets an equal or even less share which has now gone down, this These are some of the things program. Those projects include of the budget. VDC is in every programme is assisting them. we should look at, to determine to maintain schools, drainage village Mr Chairman, but it Mr Chairman, the rural business whether we are benefiting or systems and others. What are we has a challenge when it comes community is booming and the not. Our Kgotla offices for requesting for here Honourable to maintaining due to certain Government has since assisted example, are appealing and we Members; should Ipelegeng circumstances. We are not sure them through the introduction of are not ashamed to welcome undertake maintanance or if Ipelegeng will manage but the Small, Medium and Micro visitors in them. We all know construct new projects?. If still there is shortage of staff Enterprises (SMMEs) program. that this economic downturn is I remember well, around accommodation. I support the This program has benefited a temporary. Soon we will be at 2009/2010, the Government motion Mr Chairman and I want lot more people. Mr Chairman, logger heads with the Minister introduced another scheme called to urge the Ministry of Local of Local Government about the the country has to be clean to Handy Man. This scheme was Government to stand its ground state of our Dikgotla. We want keep up the tourism standards. responsible for maintenance of and tell other Ministries to play them to be renovated to a more Tourism is not only constituted Government offices and houses their part as well. Thank you Mr by fauna but scenery as well. This appealing state. I do not want to and I think that the scheme could Chairman. scenery should be able to sell the spoil Kgosi Potsoeng’s motion KGOSI MACHILIDZA country to the tourism industry. but the timing of its presentation still do the maintenance as most (BOTETI REGION): Thank The Ipelegeng employees are the is not good. The prices are already of the houses do not need major you Mr Chairman. This is a poor youth who are roaming the being increased but the money repairs. I need clarification on good motion but we can only be streets. If this program was not these Ipelegeng employees get whether the motion requests disadvantaged by the situation introduced, parents would not is not enough to cover all their Ipelegeng to do maintenance or we are in right now. In the have managed with their welfare needs. This is a time when we to construct new projects. Thank past, we constructed houses and to provide for them. We have should request the Government you Mr Chairman. 30 31 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion MR CHAIRMAN: I believe think that the program is already least there are areas that I can ASSISTANT MINISTER OF the Minister has something to covering that Mr Chairman. In confirm that it is running and has LOCAL GOVERNMENT explain. most areas Ipelegeng program, been rolled out. Thank you Mr (HON TSHIRELETSO): ASSISTANT MINISTER OF through VDC, is still constructing Chairman. Thank you Mr Chairman. Can offices, houses and Kgotla I be allowed to clarify because LOCAL GOVERNMENT KGOSI MALEMA (BOBIRWA shelters. I will cite Mahalapye as now we differ as per our regions. (HON TSHIRELETSO): REGION): Thank you Mr an example because I am certain Every Member is stating what Thank you Mr Chairman. Let Chairman. Kgosi Seeletso said that the program is already happens at their different regions? me kindly request Members the truth that in our region, in place there, the Ipelegeng Can I explain how Ipelegeng to refrain from using the Ipelegeng has constructed staff program has constructed many operates Mr Chairman? research paper to debate the houses and offices. Offices houses. There are houses motion because the officer who at Moletemane, Mathathane, MR CHAIRMAN: Explain behind the Botswana Housing conducted the research did not Mabolwe, Lepokole, and Honourable Minister. Corporation along the A1 road, do a good job and did not cover Robelela have been constructed those have been constructed by all that we do. The researcher through Namola leuba program. HONOURABLE the VDC, though Ipelegeng. also wrote about the Ministry I support the motion but at our TSHIRELETSO: Ipelegeng Just last year, offices were of Labour and Home Affairs, region the program is already in has been established in order to handed over after completion by I do not know if it is because place and we have never been employ a lot of people so that Ipelegeng. The challenge is that Honourable Siele was once a stopped from doing the projects. it can assist in their welfare. after completion, these houses Minister there. I would like Mr Chairman, it is not true that There are a lot of projects being have to be maintained by the Members to present basing on other departments do not take done in different councils. The Government since Ipelegeng their experience just like Kgosi part in these developments. challenge is that councils have does not have a budget. The Seeletso has done. The research Ipelegeng has its budget and in different management systems. Department of Building and paper is misleading. Thank you that budget, every department North West for example, has an Engineering (DBES) which Mr Chairman. submits its estimates and requests issue when it comes to managing has to maintain these houses the projects, as well as poverty MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you. to the council and that is what is reluctant to do so because eradication. In other regions, Kgosi Mmualefhe, I take it that has been happening during the they have their standards and all the projects which have the motion reads as thus, “That VDC meetings. This particular procedures. Before they accept been listed on this document this Honourable House requests budget is not presented to Local the houses, they inspect them. like maintaining primary and Government to include building Government but it just a vote Maybe they think that Ipelegeng to be used for Ipelegeng and all secondary schools, construction of Houses” and not maintenance, does not do certain things in civil servants benefit from these of staff houses and others are done we are focusing on office and the right way on construction. houses upon completion. We do through Ipelegeng. A department house construction and the So this houses constructed not have to pursue this matter can buy their own materials Minister requests that we put through Ipelegeng have financial because it is on-going. Thank then we provide labour through aside those research papers. implications on the Government you Mr Chairman. Ipelegeng. Small structures such KGOSI TSHIPE in terms of maintenance. MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI as Kgotla shelters, three or two (MAHALAPYE REGION): I am of the view that the program LOTLAMORENG II): I think roomed houses are the ones done Thank you Mr Chairman. I do is already doing what is being the Minister has something to through this programme. Mr not support the motion because I requested Mr Chairman, at clarify. Chairman, this document does 32 33 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion not have enough information and railways in Xhosa 1 and since Minister has explained her case HONOURABLE that is why I recommend that the place has been de-bushed, and I do not know if we still want TSHIRELETSO: Mr Members should not refer to it. no cases have been reported. to continue with the debate given Chairman, North West is behind We have built guard houses and Kgatleng district has also paved the explanation. schedule, on both Ipelegeng and schools and the roads that join poverty eradication. This is not Kgotla shelters yet that has not KGOSI LEMPADI main road, through Ipelegeng. the only region Mr Chairman; been included in this document. (OKAVANGO REGION): There are a lot more things that Kweneng has the same problem Thank you Mr Chairman. Thank Ipelegeng does, including litter too. The Ministry has requested Mr Chairman, what Kgosi is you Honourable Minister for picking and it will continue to be that an equal number of people requesting is already in place that explanation. We are always the case because we do not want should be employed and then and in villages like Makwate, told that there is no budget for a filthy country. the remaining budget should Mookane and Pallaroad; building new structures through be used to buy material and Ipelegeng is constructing Kgotla I had talked with Kgosi Potsoeng Ipelegeng. The only project in turn use the Ipelegeng shelters. We ensure that the plan as he had wanted to withdraw his which has funds is cutting trees labour. That is what we have for structure is adhered to and motion. The research document and grass. Mr Chairman, in the said Mr Chairman. Therefore there is continuous inspection. that he has, has incorporated Okavango region, all the offices Honourable Members, we have We need to come up with a plan some of the projects being done that are there have been built not said that the construction as a Ministry to address the issues through Ipelegeng correctly. My through Namola leuba and not by should be done but the VDC, that I have talked about regarding concern was that the document local Government. The current Bogosi and Councillors reached councils. The objective of the talks about the Ministry of Ipelegeng program has no an agreement on their own that program is to engage people Labour and Home Affairs and construction programme because the projects should be undertaken in large numbers so that they they might not agree with what they never buy any materials. by Ipelegeng. This does not only benefit as well Mr Chairman. has been written. The research Our Council Secretaries always happen in the central but also I will take the responsibility officer could have consulted advise us not to request for the in parts of the Kgatleng and of contacting the councils to with the Ministry and not take a construction of houses when Kweneng. Structures have been inform them that the community caption from the speech that the we present our estimates. I am built through Ipelegeng and more needs to see what they are doing. Minister made because he may surprised to hear that in some are still being done. Culverts Cutting the grass and trees will have talked in general terms. Mr parts of the country it is possible. and Kgotla shelters are under always have to be done. Kgosi Chairman, what this House is I had assumed that since we have construction Mr Chairman. In Machilidza was right, we cannot requesting is already ongoing. the same Government, when one region, they used stones to disregard de-bushing. The grass Thank you. there is a program, it would be construct a Kgotla shelter. Let and the trees keep growing, it is a rolled out to the whole country. continuous exercise. It is just like MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you me request that I be given time HONOURABLE hunger, even if one eats today, Minister. As the Minister has to consult with the heads of TSHIRELETSO: Clarification, tomorrow they will still need to already noted that there are some Ipelegeng program and notify Mr Chairman. eat again. Ipelegeng has cleared councils which do not have a them that they should look into bushes which harboured rapists, proper management system, is it MR CHAIRMAN: Do not your concerns, especially on the thieves, and murderers. Kgosi not time to consider monitoring forget that we have requested the issue of the budget. We have not Tshipe can assert to the fact that them Honourable Minister? Minster to monitor the councils said that materials should not people used to be murdered near Honourable Members, the which have some problems. be bought, the emphasis was on 34 35 Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Monday 29th October, 2012 Inclusion of Building of Civil Servants’ Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion Houses Under Ipelegeng Program - Motion employing lots of people; about that point. Kgosi Machilidza explaining that the construction and I believe that the Minister is 55 000. Let us not repeat what mentioned cleanliness of the road of staff houses has been included aware of that. I would be grateful is already been debated, I have and tourism, I said that those are under the Ipelegeng program. if the Minister could address this heard about the North West and a given , they will always be matter because in some areas MR CHAIRMAN: Pardon me I have noted that we shall look there no matter what. Let me then we have some setbacks because Kgosi. into it. thank you Honourable Minister of that. Thank you for the for having explained. KGOSI MASUNGA: My explanation and I will be glad if MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you apologies, Mr Chairman, I did at all what has been said will be Minister. Is that beautiful Kgotla MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI not mean to comment but the done. Thank you Mr Chairman. structure not in Goodhope? LOTLAMORENG): Pardon Minister said something that me Kgosi Potsoeng before you MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you KGOSI SEEMEKO: Thank I would like to react to. Like thank the Minister. I want to Kgosi Potsoeng. I believe that you Mr Chairman. I do not want Kgosi is saying, we were made believe that the Minister has said we have all understood Kgosi to waste time to debate after the to understand that the Ministry that she did not get you when you Potsoeng’s motion and the explanation from the Honourable has taken a position that all said that some projects should be Minister’s response. I will now Minister. I feel that we have projects should be halted. That is stopped but if I heard her well, put the question. debated the motion and according the answer I got after requesting she stated that it is possible for to the rules and procedure of this for an office. I was told that the Question put and agreed to. construction to be included House. Mr. Chairman, let me Ministry was given an instruction under the Ipelegeng program, MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable move according to Section 31 to halt all projects. I have been or is it not the case Honourable Minister, let me request that you that the question be now be put. under the impression that, that Minister? meet with all Council Secretaries Thank you Sir. was the Ministry’s decision. and present to them our concern. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF MR CHAIRMAN: Now that MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Thank you. LOCAL GOVERNMENT the Minister has explained, let Potsoeng, were you done? (HON TSHIRELETSO): REVIEW OF DIKGOSI Kgosi Potsoeng respond to what Mr Chairman, I have said that AND DIKGOSANA PAY the Minister has said. KGOSI POTSOENG: I would STRUCTURE where possible, the buildings are like to thank the Honourable KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI included under the VDC and the Minister for explaining that Motion REGION): Thank you Mr council but if it is not possible construction of houses and Chairman. I would like to make a then they are not included. Thank offices has not been halted and KGOSI GAREBAKWENA correction before I say anything. you. I would like to thank those (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): My motion reads as thus, ‘That Members representing Central Thank you Mr Chairman I would MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi this Honourable House requests who have pointed out that their like to defer this motion to a later suggested that some projects Government to include’ but we projects are ongoing. I would date for further consultation Mr should be suspended to give are not saying that de-bushing also want to thank the Minister Chairman. other project priority through and cleaning of the streets in advance as she will be touring Ipelegeng. Maybe this is not MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi should not be done. My motion all the councils nationwide. I being done in his region. Garebakwena requests that we is straight forward; it calls for affirm that the management defer his motion to a later date. the inclusion of those staff KGOSI POTSOENG: Thank system in Ngamiland does not houses only. I wanted to correct you Honourable Minister for have this arrangement in place Motion deferred. 36 37 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

MR CHAIRMAN: We have and Security if he does not deem HONOURABLE M. E. which we do not have. Even come to the end of the Business it necessary to introduce subtitles MASISI: Thank you Mr though I am here on behalf of of the House today. Honourable in the Itshireletse Police drama Chairman. I meant that this the Minister of Defence, let me Members, can we briefly meet at for the benefit of people who do program is meant to educate highlight another imperative the Committee room for less than not understand Setswana as it is Batswana and by way of saying issue. Most of the resources and ten minutes. Thank you. very educative to the nation. that I did not imply that all technical expertise are at the Batswana know the Setswana broadcasting department and ADJOURNMENT ACTING MINISTER FOR language. The point that I was even them, they do not have the DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND The meeting adjourned at 3.28 trying to drive home is that the required equipment yet because SECURITY (HON M. E. p.m. until Tuesday 30th October Botswana Police Service has there are no funds to buy them. I MASISI): Mr Chairman, 2012 at 9.30 a.m. the desire to do so but the only thank you Mr Chairman. the Itshireletse Police Drama challenge they have now is that Tuesday 30th October, 2012 programme is aimed at KGOSI BOIDITSWE: of inadequate resources. I thank educating Batswana about Thank you Mr Chairman and THE HOUSE met at 9:00 a.m. you Mr Chairman. crime prevention. The desire is Honourable Minister. Let me (THE CHAIRPERSON in the to reach as diverse an audience KGOSI KGARI II: Thank you point out that the subtitles are Chair) as possible, including non- Mr Chairman. Is the Minister very crucial. We have other saying that it is expensive to Batswana who do not understand P R A Y E R S Setswana speaking people, people with hearing impairment include subtitles? I ask this Setswana very well but the * * * * and others. However this has not because he said it is costly to use education from the drama is important to them too. I thank been achieved due to logistical advanced production studios? CHAIRMAN’S you Mr Chairman. OPENING REMARKS challenges and costs relating to HONOURABLE M. E. drama production which entails MASISI: Thank you Mr IMPROVEMENT OF MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI sophisticated and advanced Chairman. It is indeed expensive OFFICE AND OFFICERS’ GABORONE): Good morning production studios which the to even include subtitles because ACCOMMODATION Honourable Members and Botswana Police Service does advanced technology is needed STANDARDS AT NCOJANE Honourable Ministers. We not have. Therefore Itshireletse to do it so as not to affect picture POLICE STATION welcome you to this Honourable Police Drama will for now, quality. I thank you. House; we began the House KGOSI M. KAHIKO III remain being produced in business yesterday. We shall start KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Is the (GHANZI WEST REGION): Setswana. I thank you. today’s business. Honourable Minister implying asked the Minister of Defence, that we do not have expertise to KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Thank Justice and Security when he QUESTIONS FOR do this or we are only faced with you Mr Chairman. If I heard the will improve the standard of the ORAL ANSWER the challenge of funds? I thank Honourable Minister correctly, offices as well as the officers’ INTRODUCING SUBTITLES you Mr Chairman. he said that the programme accommodation at Ncojane TO THE ITSHIRELETSE is tailored for Batswana. Is HONOURABLE M. E. Police Station. POLICE DRAMA the Minister implying that all MASISI: Thank Mr Chairman. ACTING MINISTER OF KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE Batswana are conversant in The technical expertise is there, DEFENCE, JUSTICE (SEROWE REGION): asked Setswana language? I thank you the only challenge is the funding AND SECURITY (MR M. the Minister of Defence, Justice Mr Chairman. because they need a lot of money E. MASISI): Mr Chairman, 38 39 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer improvement of the Ncojane and Inspector at Ncojane Police KGOSI KAHIKO III: have continuously demonstrated Police Station and additional Station will be filled. Thank you Mr Chairman and professionalism in terms of housing accommodation is Honourable Minister. conducting searches on women ACTING MINISTER OF planned to take place during suspects and they will continue DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND UPDATE ON PROGRESS National Development Plan to perform this function until SECURITY (MR M. E. MADE TO POST A FEMALE 10 commencing in 2015/2016 the identified officer arrives in MASISI): Mr Chairman, I am POLICE OFFICER TO Financial Year. However, this Mopipi. I thank you. aware that there is currently no MOPIPI VILLAGE Honourable House is reminded Assistant Superintendent and KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Is the of the effects of the economic KGOSI O. S. MACHILIDZA Inspector at Ncojane Police Honourable Minister saying that recession which has led to (BOTETI REGION): asked the Station. Lack of accommodation the Law permits female Police reprioritization of a number of Minister of Defence, Justice and facilities in the area has hampered volunteers to conduct a search? Police projects with others being Security to update the House on deployment of additional I am asking this because 2013 is put on hold. If these conditions efforts made by his Ministry to officers. Notwithstanding, an quite a long period from here. Is prevail by 2015/2016, this plan post a female Police Officer in Assistant Superintendent will be it acceptable for female Police may also be affected. I thank you. Mopipi village pursuant to his posted to the station during the volunteers who have not been response to question no. 91 on properly trained to search people KGOSI KAHIKO III: Mr Police supplementary transfers th the 16 June, 2011. even though the only training Chairman, we do not have any due in November/December they had was through seminars? other choice but to be thankful, 2012. I thank you. ACTING MINISTER OF because these are the same old KGOSI KAHIKO III: Mr DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND HONOURABLE M. E. type of answers we get every Chairman, I am not convinced SECURITY (HON M. E. MASISI: The search conducted time there is a recession. All that the issue of lack of MASISI): Mr Chairman, in by female police volunteers is I can say is that those officers accommodation is a challenge my response to Ntlo ya Dikgosi within the confines of the Law, th work under unfavourable because other officers like the Question No. 91 on the 16 but there is clearly a level to conditions as compared to other Station Commander are already June, 2011, I alluded to the fact which they can go. Anything Police stations. I thank you renting. What is hampering the that there was a consideration beyond that will escalate to Mr Chairman and Honourable filling of those posts more so that to post a female Police Officer a destination where there are Minister. the concerned officers could rent to Mopipi Police Post. To- officers who are senior to them like others? date a female Officer has been in rank who will be able to FILLING OF ASSISTANT identified for transfer to Mopipi carry out those searches. So SUPERINTENDENT HONOURABLE M. E. Police Post and she will relocate far we have not experienced AND INSPECTOR POSTS MASISI: Thank you Mr to Mopipi by April 2013. In the any problems and we intend to AT NCOJANE POLICE Chairman. There is nothing meantime, efforts are being made continue like that. When I talk STATION hampering that. I have already to find suitable accommodation about professionalism, I mean indicated, the post of Assistant in consultation with the Village that they know their jurisdiction. KGOSI M. KAHIKO III Development Committee. I thank you. (GHANZI WEST REGION): Superintendent shall be filled asked the Minister of Defence, before the end of December and It is worth noting that currently KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Last Justice and Security when the he/she shall be renting too. I there are seventeen (17) women question, if you allow me Mr posts of Assistant Superintendent thank you Mr Chairman. Police volunteers in Mopipi who Chairman, does the Honourable 40 41 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

Minister know the distance PROVISION OF SPECIAL MR MACHILIDZA: Mr KGOSI MACHILIDZA: I am between Mopipi and other CONSTABLES TO Chairman I am a bit confused just stating what is currently villages that have Police stations? MOPIPI AND TSIENYANE by the answer given by the on the ground. Thank you Mr I am asking this because if the VILLAGES Honourable Minister. I am not Chairman and Honourable volunteers have a jurisdiction, sure whether he is referring to Minister, we would really KGOSI O. S. MACHILIDZA will this not be a hindrance when Tsienyane village because I am appreciate it if they could report (BOTETI REGION): asked it comes to conducting a search at for duty. the Minister of Defence, Justice talking about something that an opportune time? Will they just and Security if he will consider I know of. Is the Honourable MR CHAIRMAN: It will still keep the suspect indefinitely or providing Mopipi and Tsienyane Minister sure of the facts he be convenient for you to find out they will just conduct a search? villages in Boteti Sub District just provided about Tsienyane for yourself if they have reported And legally are they supposed to with Special Constables. because in Mopipi I am very for duty or not. If they have not, be doing that? much aware of the situation? then you could always contact HONOURABLE M. E. ACTING MINISTER OF the Honourable Minister to let MASISI: Thank you Kgosi. DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND HONOURABLE M. MASISI: him know the situation. Thank We must understand that even SECURITY (HON M. E. Mr Chairman, it was not my you, Kgosi Machilidza. though certain services are not MASISI): Mr Chairman, as at intention to confuse Kgosi. st SUBSISTENCE close to certain places, work 1 October 2012, Mopipi and However the information that Tsienyane villages were each ALLOWANCE FOR POLICE still has to be done. With their I have been given certifies experience and expertise, the allocated two Special constables OFFICERS GUARDING that indeed posts of Special concerned volunteers will know slots which have been filled. I HOTELS Constables in Tsienyane and what each particular situation thank you. KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE calls for .They would be able to Mopipi village have been filled. (CHOBE DISTRICT): asked tell whether they should refer a KGOSI MACHILIDZA: I did I do not have substantive proof the Minister of Defence, Justice case to their superiors or attend not understand the Honourable with me right now to ascertain and Security why subsistence to it themselves because we Minister very well. Is he telling to the Honourable Member that allowance is not paid to Chobe cannot stay without doing the job me that those posts have been indeed the concerned officers West police officers who guard just because the places are far filled and the concerned officers have already reported for duty. are already at the duty stations? hotels at Ngoma and Muchenje. apart. The realisation of the long I will try to bring that proof to distance between the concerned HONOURABLE M. E. show the Honourable Member. ACTING MINISTER OF places is the one that drove the MASISI: I was saying that it has As for the filling of those posts, DEFENCE, JUSTICE Botswana Police to plan for the been filled and this means that they have been indeed filled AND SECURITY (HON recruitment of more officers by M. MASISI): Thank you Mr April next year. There are still somebody has been appointed since the 1st October 2012. I Chairman. Police Officers have other places that do not have to that particular post. I am thank you Mr Chairman. been deployed to the Chobe even Police volunteers. Thank unfortunately not able to say MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi enclave to supplement security you. at this point whether they are Machilidza if you have not requirements to the hotels and KGOSI MACHILIDZA: physically in the posts or not, but yet seen them the Honourable lodges in the area since 2011. Thank you Mr Chairman, thank the posts have been filled. I thank Minister has assured you that he The officers were assigned on you Honourable Minister. you. will find out for you. an eight hours shift basis. The 42 43 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer officers commute from Kavimba Why are the Police Officers who lodges go there upon delegation provided, they can give me some to the hotels and lodges and work in those areas not given by their superiors. Therefore time to go and look for a better return to their places of abode the subsidiary allowance given anything that transpires whilst answer. As we are all aware, after serving their normal hours that they are exposed to all sorts on duty will totally be the even Kgosi Mmualefhe can attest engagement. It is on this basis of danger posed by the wild responsibility of the superiors to that, Chobe region is prone to that the officers are not entitled animals? not the lodge management. That poaching. They use dangerous to subsistence allowance includes extension of hours of weapons and sometimes they HONOURABLE M. MASISI: which is essentially meant to work, their security and welfare, shoot at the Police officers, I have already explained that cover lodging and or boarding transport and how they execute the Military and the Wildlife the reason why there is no expenses. However, officers may their duties. I thank you Mr officers. So that is the main subsistence allowance is because be paid meal allowance provided Chairman. reason why there is a need to officers have been assigned on an this is done according to the set have that kind of security. I thank eight hour shift basis but instead MR CHAIRMAN: Let me meal regulations. I thank you. you Mr Chairman. they have meal allowance. kindly remind Honourable KGOSI LOTLAMORENG Subsistence allowance is only Members to focus on the question MR CHAIRMAN: May we II: Thank you Mr Chairman. I given in instances where there asked here which is enquiring proceed to the next question think that these lodges are non- are night outs and the allowance about subsistence allowance. because what has been said here governmental. Is it Lawful for is used to pay for accommodation Let us be careful that we do was once said in the last sitting Police Officers to guard them and where the officer is. So now not introduce a new question after Kgosi Mmualefhe asked is it permissible for us to request that they do not have any night altogether. the same question. I believe the Police officers to guard our outs they do not qualify for KGOSI LOTLAMORENG Honourable Minister is just subsistence allowance but they personal property too as it is II: Thank you Mr Chairman. reiterating those words. do get meal allowances. I thank happening with these lodges? In his response, the Honourable you Mr Chairman. MOVING FORESTRY HONOURABLE M. MASISI: Minister has mentioned that BOUNDARIES Mr Chairman, every Motswana KGOSI K. RAMOKWENA: the Police make an assessment is entitled and free to request for Thank you Mr Chairman. to determine whether security KGOSI MMUALEFHE: To protection from the Police but it The Honourable Minister has is really needed or to establish ask the Minister of Lands and will be upon the Police to assess mentioned that it is allowed the kind of security needed. My Housing if he will consider the type of request submitted. for an individual to request for question then is what compels the moving the forestry boundaries They will then decide on the protection from the Police. In Police to provide this security? further from the village of type of protection they will case it happens that they work Why can these lodges not hire Kachikau as they are now offer, including how and when overtime, who is responsible for their own security companies? impacting on the land allocations. it will be done. I thank you Mr the payment, is it the Government HONOURABLE M. MASISI: MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi Chairman. or the person who has engaged Thank you Mr Chairman. Mmualefhe, the Minister of them? I thank you Mr Chairman. KGOSI MACHILIDZA: I Honourable Member, even Lands and Housing is not here to respond to your question. would like to ask a question Mr HONOURABLE M. MASISI: though this is a new question, Chairman, but sometimes if one Thank you Mr Chairman. I will try to shed some light. If KGOSI MMUALEFHE: is not in good health, it is difficult Honourable Members, the Police Honourable Members are still Thank you Mr Chairman. May to phrase the questions properly. officers who are stationed at these not content with the answer we defer this question until the 44 45 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Punishment To 50 Years - Motion Punishment To 50 Years - Motion

Honourable Minister is present can be punished too. I say this charged a certain amount of traditional way of dealing with to answer? I thank you. because sometimes those people money, they pay because that crime. The Government decided commit crime knowing that the fine amounts to nothing and after to raise the age limit up to 40 MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Law favours them when it comes paying, they still go out there years but surprisingly these Kgosi Mmualefhe. Question to corporal punishment. As old and commit the same crime. people continue to disregard seven is deferred. as I am, I qualify for corporal Mr Chairman, I cannot succeed the Law. They steal livestock Question – deferred punishment. I am just wondering without the support of this knowing that they are covered by why people aged between 40 and INCREASE OF Honourable House, my duty is the Law. Honourable Members, 50 years old cannot be punished to table the motion and leave the there is absolutely nothing AGE LIMIT FOR that way. Just recently, an CORPORAL rest to the Honourable House. I wrong with this motion unless incident occurred where an ex- believe that I am preaching to the we decide as a country to copy PUNISHMENT TO 50 military man assaulted his mother YEARS converted, they are confronted from other countries and apply after she tried to intervene in a by issues like these on daily their Laws in ours. I support Motion conflict that he had with his wife. Instead of listening he assaulted basis in their respective villages. this motion because in our KGOSI K. BOIDITSWE his mother with a log and she It will not be an offence to differ country we know very well that (SEROWE REGION): sustained a fractured arm. He in opinions because we do not corporal punishment has never Thank you Mr Chairman and took the wife and their children think the same, if that was the really killed anyone. Instead Honourable Members. I have and moved out of the home. case then there would be chaos. it has turned out to be the best tabled a motion that requests The man was around 41, which Mr Chairman, I request that remedy ever, when people think an increment of age limit for means corporal punishment is this Honourable House support of the repercussions of being corporal punishment. According not an option for him because he me on this motion and just disrespectful, they think twice. exceeded the age limit but he had to Customary Court Act, the for information sharing I have So, let 50 year old who has committed a crime that deserved limit should be up to 40 years. been quoting Section 18 of the committed a crime be punished. corporal punishment. Now with this motion, I am Customary Court Act. I thank That is all I have to say in support advocating for the amendment I therefore request for support you Mr Chairman. of this motion. I thank you Mr Chairman. of the Customary Court Act. The from this Honourable House MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you age limit should be increased to because these people have a Kgosi Boiditswe. You cannot KGOSI T. F. TSHIPE 50 years looking at the current tendency of being disrespectful table a motion and debate at the (MAHALAPYE REGION): lifestyle. I am saying this because to their parents despite their same time; Honourable Members Thank you Mr Chairman. Even people aged around 40 and 50 age. It would be understandable are here to do that. though I am not against this years are the most problematic. if they assault their fellow age motion, I am not sure how I They are always engaging in mates whilst under the influence KGOSI A. O. can deal with it because there fights and sometimes assault of alcohol not their own parents. MONNAATHEBE is a delegation that is assigned their parents. When they are It is really painful to see a child (THAMAGA REGION): to amend the Customary Courts brought before the court, they being disrespectful to their Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand Act. I want to believe that this cannot be sentenced to corporal parents. They end up not being here to support this motion. The is one of the issues that will punishment because of the age punished just because they have reason why there is so much be touched as they continue to limit. The age limit should be exceeded age limit for corporal disorder these days is because consult with communities Mr increased to 50 years so that they punishment. When they are we have moved away from our Chairman. 46 47 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Punishment To 50 Years - Motion Punishment To 50 Years - Motion

The reason why I am a bit MINISTER FOR motion, let us ensure that all looks like they will create some reserved is because we are going PRESIDENTIAL the points raised are related to misunderstanding. I thank you to discuss something which is AFFAIRS AND PUBLIC the motion. When I look at this Mr Chairman. already in the pipeline. I think ADMINISTRATION (HON motion, the Customary Courts MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI the head of this delegation is M. E. K. MASISI): Thank Act is not mentioned. Even GABORONE): Thank you Kgosi Masunga and he can you Mr Chairman even though though there are various Laws Kgosi Lotlamoreng. confirm that they have already I came in the middle of the that cover corporal punishment, gone to some parts of the debate. According to me, there I just assumed that the outcome KGOSI M. KAHIKO III: This country. They came to my region is absolutely nothing wrong with of this motion will affect all means the Law makers will have and we have proposed that the debating this motion despite the sections that have corporal to amend all the Clauses that age limit should be increased to the fact that it is still under punishment. Even though have the subject in question. 50 years. Since this is yet to be consideration by an assigned the mover of the motion has Most of the people who are tabled in Parliament, I am not delegation. I thank you Mr mentioned the Customary brought before our Customary sure if we will be following the Chairman. Courts Act, the motion requests Courts range from 40 to 45 years right procedure. I think we are Government to increase age KGOSI LOTLAMORENG II of age. Even though I am above advocating for something that is limit from 40 to 50 years. That (BAROLONG): Mr Chairman, 40 years, I am still fit enough already in the pipeline. I thank is according to what has been I am not against the continuation to receive corporal punishment. you Mr Chairman. stated in the motion. of the debate, but can I kindly If there is nothing to prove that MR CHAIRMAN: Thank request this Honourable House to KGOSI M. KAHIKO III indeed a person aged between you Kgosi Tshipe. You were ask Kgosi Boiditswe to defer this (GHANZI WEST REGION): 40 and 50 years is too old for expressing your opinion but at motion. I am saying this because Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand corporal punishment, then this the same time offering advice it is not only the Customary here to support this motion and motion should pass. The other to this Honourable House. Courts Act that talks against I will touch three points only. thing Mr Chairman is that the When the mover of the motion administration of corporal This motion is straight forward; delegation that has been sent presented it, it was not for me punishment to people aged 40 the age limit should be increased has its own goal to achieve. If to offer further clarity. Even and above. The Penal Code also to 50 years from the 40 years we are to pass this motion at this though we are talking about talks about corporal punishment. that is stated across all the forum, it will not be a problem. the Customary Courts Act, If this House deems it fit to sections that have the Corporal I support this motion because it the mover of the motion is proceed with the debate, it is still punishment regulation. It will be is something that we have dealt requesting for increment of age fine, I just wanted to highlight upon the Law makers to visit all with for a long time and it has limit. We are all aware that there that what we could be trying to these sections to amend, these caused challenges to us. This is a proposal for the amendment amend in the Customary Courts include the Penal Code, Criminal motion will assist us to correct the of the Customary Courts Act, Act is also in other Laws. Thank Procedure and Evidence and challenge that we are faced with. however, he is specifically you, Mr Chairman. Customary Courts Act. requesting for the amendment Even though administration of of a particular section. I do not MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable KGOSI LOTLAMORENG corporal punishment on women know if the Honourable Minister Members let me remind you on II (BAROLONG): On a point is not allowed, it was going to be can respond to the motion as it is what I said yesterday on tabling of clarification. Mr Chairman, I better if it could be extended to before we can go any further. of motions. When we table a withdraw my words because it them. Thank you Mr Chairman. 48 49 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Punishment To 50 Years - Motion Punishment To 50 Years - Motion

KGOSI K. B. LEMPADI KGOSI K. L. TELEKELO then it will be an indication that my name on the mud and even (OKAVANGO REGION): (MOSHUPA REGION): Thank we are not worried about the my community. Thank you Mr Chairman. you Mr Chairman. I stand here increasing crime perpetrated Maybe by so doing, it will knock This is a very good motion, to support this motion. As we by people of that age. Mr some sense into my head since considering the rate at which contribute to this motion, it Chairman, these people commit I will be the laughing stock in crime is escalating. We should should not be assumed that we crime deliberately because they the community. Mr. Chairman, at the same time bear in mind take pleasure in administering know that they have passed the I wonder what informed the that we are ageing and corporal corporal punishment. The reason age that falls under corporal decision to set the age limit where punishment is meant for younger why the age limit was set at 40 punishment. Mr Chairman, to it is. I wonder if the medical people. That is why there years old was because at that curb the overcrowding of prisons, Doctors conducted a practical is a common saying that “a age, the expectation was that corporal punishment would be research where people were Basimane ba kgwathe”, that is people would be responsible the best remedy. I thank you Mr whipped and they died. It would to say only boys can be lashed. and would not commit some of Chairman. work much better if a person was Now Honourable Members, 50 these crimes. However, it has assessed first before the corporal years is too high. For a consensus been evident that people still KGOSI K. RAMOKWENA punishment was administered to such as this one to be reached, behave immature regardless (MAUN REGION): Thank you determine if they are fit for that there was some thorough of their age because they still Mr Chairman. This motion is or not. If the implicated person research that was done in order indulge in criminal activities. very appropriate because there is not fit even if they are under to determine the appropriate Mr Chairman, I support this is nowhere where God says the age of 40 years, then some age. There are various sentences motion because I am of the elderly people can commit crime other alternative in the form of that we have in Botswana and view that it will assist in curbing and go without being punished. punishment will be taken. If the corporal punishment is not the the congestions in prisons. I I am reminded of one story in Legislatures were to be hesitant only one that can be used. For the suspect that if a research was the Bible where one man served on this Law, it will cause chaos. age of 40 to be used, there were to be carried out in prisons, the the Lord for a long time but his Under leadership, there is what various factors that were taken outcomes will reveal that most of children were disobedient and he is called enabling leadership into consideration like issues of the prisoners are around the age was afraid of reprimanding his and authoritarian leadership. health. As a person gets older, of 40 and above. I do appreciate own children. He was chastised Even in cattle, the same is done, their health deteriorates, which that there are other means of for that. I believe that this motion if they are stubborn, there is a means they cannot fall under punishment, but some people are is very appropriate because it way of taming them. The same the category fit for corporal just plain difficult. Even if they applies to people, they need punishment. Honourable will put people to order. The are given a suspended sentence, Law will expose those that still to be governed by rigid Laws Members, I just wanted to bring they continue to commit crime. this to your attention because commit crime at that age. I too and in that way they will fall Ultimately you have no choice 50 years is quite an older age feel that I am still fit enough to be into place. It is disgraceful to bracket. Perhaps if the mover of but to sentence them to prison, subjected to corporal punishment see elderly people indulging in the motion could have suggested even though we know that prisons even though I am more than 60 embarrassing activities. Recently 45 years, it would have been are overcrowded. Therefore Mr years of age. I will be punished in our village a 48 year old man much better and I would have Chairman, I think this motion for committing a crime at my age came home and found his mother supported the motion. I thank is appropriate and should be so that I will be ashamed of that, who is about 76 or 77 sleeping you. passed. If we fail to pass it, which is equivalent to dragging and he tore the blanket from her. 50 51 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Punishment To 50 Years - Motion Punishment To 50 Years - Motion

When she asked why he was that healthy. If Kgosi is going to I am very much aware that they Some of these convicts when doing that he told her that he was whip a person who is aged 45 or commit crimes and they are the they are released from prison, feeling cold too. Mr Chairman, 50 years, I am just wondering very people giving us problems they find out that they have if corporal punishment was to how that is going to be done. I in our courts. Furthermore, lost everything, from families, be brought back, it would solve say this because the Law does we are aware that prisons are employment and even property. a lot of social ills that we are not allow corporal punishment overcrowded. There are quite Gambling outlets, shebeens faced with. With that being said, to be administered on the back a number of other punishments and drugs peddling are mainly I support this motion. and we tried to advocate for it that can be used instead of conducted by younger people to be brought back into practice corporal punishment. With that while livestock theft is mainly MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you and we failed dismally. The Law Mr Chairman, I do not support committed by the older people. Kgosi Ramokwena, it is 10:30 can only allow for a person to the motion even if it is stated that This is one of the serious that means we are going to be whipped on the bare buttocks they are the ones mostly prone to challenges we are faced with in suspend our proceedings for tea; because we do not want to be criminal activities. I thank you our villages. Since shebeens and we shall come back at 11 o’clock. accountable for any tearing of Mr Chairman. gambling outlets have been there PROCEEDINGS their under wear clothes. If we KGOSI MOETI II for a long time, if these people SUSPENDED FOR are advocating for increment of (SPECIALLY ELECTED): could be sentenced to corporal APPROXIMATELY 30 age to 50 years old, how are we Thank you Mr Chairman, I punishment, maybe it would MINUTES going to do that on a man of that appreciate that you gave me assist in curbing these crimes. age or we shall administer it on the chance to be on the floor. Mr Chairman, I believe all MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable the legs because the buttocks This is a good motion indeed people who fall under this age Members, before we went for tea, are a bit sensitive? They will and maybe in future we shall are fit enough to be flogged. we were on Kgosi Boiditswe’s ultimately sue us for publicly keep on amending it and adding One Honourable Member motion and Kgosi Ramokwena making them naked at their age. more years to the eligible age earlier on mentioned that it was still on the floor but he was bracket. I say this because every would be humiliating for them concluding his debate. We shall Mr Chairman, I believe any generation is faced with its own to be whipped in public, but proceed but being cognizant of Court that handles a case for all the perpetrators above the challenges. In most scenarios, the bottom line is that would the time. We should not repeat age of 40 can sentence them to people aged between 40 and 50 be the consequence of breaking the same points. something else besides corporal years are the ones who have more the Law. Even imprisonment KGOSI P. SEELETSO punishment. If for instance it responsibilities because they are dents one’s dignity, so any kind (TONOTA REGION): Thank is common assault, they can be married, they are employed or of sentence will one way or you Mr Chairman. I am against sentenced to just a few years they man their own businesses. the other affect their dignity. I in prison including some other this motion that has been For them to be sentenced to therefore feel it is time the age charges so that when they prison instead of simply giving limit is increased. At times one tabled by Kgosi Boiditswe. Mr leave the court they would Chairman, when we look at be embarrassed because the them strokes forces them to be might get involved in fights at the age variations these days, sentence would be done publicly. separated from their families. the drinking spots and ultimately younger people look like they However, for them to be whipped Sometimes some of the crimes be sentenced to Prison, thereby are older than us. They are not fit at that age is unacceptable, I they are charged with could losing their jobs. If they could because they did not eat healthy therefore do not support the require corporal punishment have just been given a few food like us; their bodies are not motion. instead of prison term. strokes it might have served as 52 53 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Punishment To 50 Years - Motion Punishment To 50 Years - Motion punishment and also helped to how they do things. Everything who are above 40 years but than men. Such perpetrators save that particular person’s job. is regulated by a certain kind of still committing crime. Those should be humiliated regardless It is an especially important point life style, if a white man is not should be the consequences of of their age by subjecting them since people in this age bracket slapped by his woman; he feels breaking the Law at an old age. to corporal punishment even if are mostly the ones that form a she does not love him enough. It If a Motswana crosses the border they are older than the stipulated large part of the working sector. is totally a different thing from illegally to Zimbabwe; they are age. Let us consider this issue what we do, when someone faced with charges regardless of Honourable Members and even Thank you Mr Chairman. slaps you, you retaliate. We once whether they are from a country bearing in mind that it was KGOSI MACHILIDZA witnessed incident in Tsienyane that is governed by peace and mentioned that a Bill is coming (BOTETI REGION): Thank and we were shocked to see a tranquillity. The same should to this House that might need a you Mr Chairman. I would like white man being slapped but it apply to those who commit crime clause such as the one we are to say a few words regarding was just normal to them because at an old age because we will be discussing. The Members of this motion. The mover of the that is a sign of love. protecting our dignity. Parliament are at liberty to add motion is simply advocating for Mr Chairman, this issue of clauses to Laws whenever they One Honourable Member was in the peace and tranquillity of this raising the age limit to 50 years see fit however, we do not have a certain country and was asked nation which is our international was once brought before this such a platform. When we talk of why our country is still executing identity because we are a moral Honourable House when we the Customary Law it is a Law death sentence as it infringes and tolerant nation. As Dikgosi, were in the Committee Room that is basically about the job that human rights and he responded we preside over cases where and it was negated. During we do and therefore I sincerely by saying that the fact that an the perpetrator normally gets that time, I pointed out that we recommend that the Government individual murdered another away with a fine or just a few need to make an introspection should listen to us when we violates the victim’s rights too. strokes. This is because most of to see where we are coming propose such amendments. No one is above the Law. We the cases are between couples from and why we came to that I do not see any problem in are part of the global village .We and the plaintiff being the conclusion. Appalling things do this motion Mr Chairman. We have signed for human rights and woman normally chooses for happen out there in our regions know that when the Honourable some of the practices are deemed their partner to be sentenced to that ultimately compel the Minister responds, he is going to be barbaric like thrashing a corporal punishment. They do Honourable Members to bring to touch on issues of health person on the back, but it has this due to the fact that the man them into this Honourable House because he is responsible for proven to work for us. That is why is usually the bread winner and to seek assistance. Sometimes health while on the other hand we have displayed an exemplary going to jail would mean no relatives display unbecoming we are responsible for curbing figure to other countries because food on the table. Batswana are behaviour at funerals and when crime and advocating for good we have a system of chastising not fond of imprisonment, what they are reported, you will find conduct. Therefore with reasons perpetrators without necessarily they know is that if one has that they are above the age that that I have stated, I support this sentencing them to death. committed a crime, they should falls under corporal punishment motion. I believe that time will get corporal punishment. I once and in that case, they are fined I remember one incident that come for us to come to accept heard that Caucasians people only P50. Mr Chairman, we happened back at home, a couple the proposed 50 years age limit. believe that if a man does not are all aware of this kind of was fighting and the man defeated We asked for this a long time treat a lady right, then the lady behaviour so there should be the woman because we know ago whilst Kgosi Christopher should smack him and that is a clause that caters for those that naturally women are weaker Masunga was still a member of

54 55 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Increase Of Age Limit For Corporal Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Punishment To 50 Years - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion this Honourable House. We did Honourable Members. The a country, to guard and guide Question put and agreed to. not manage to pass the motion motion is very straight forward people. A psychologist once said because that was the time when and understandable. As is the a brain never rejects anything INTRODUCTION OF the Customary Court Act was procedure and laying aside and whatever comes to the brain A NON-ALCOHOLIC still under review. If the motion the fact that a response has to for processing, it is processed DAY had passed, then this one would be given to the mover of the but our emotions decide on Motion have not been tabled. So now the motion, we shall have to wait for whether to take action or not. Honourable Member has tabled the response from Parliament. So Honourable Members have KGOSI GAREBAKWENA it with the hope that things will This is because I still have to go indicated that the motion is good (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): change, but if they do not, maybe and consult we are requesting and I do not wish to be long on Thank you Mr Chairman. I would we should take it with a different for the Law to be amended it. Some people say leadership like to table a motion before this perspective to see if we will still to add the recommended age is like an egg, if one does not Honourable House which reads, fail or not. With those words, I limit. As I stand here, it will be handle it well, it might slip and “That this Honourable House thank you Mr Chairman. This difficult for me to state whether fall and if held very tightly, it will requests Government to declare is a good motion but because of it will be successful or not but I crack in one’s hands. The same a day as an alcohol free day to be some reasons and circumstances, have understood where you are can happen with people, if there commemorated annually”. This we might not be able to pass it coming from to have requested is no one to advice which way to motion basically requests a day because we already know the this age limit. I have really learnt take, then people will perish. to be set aside annually where stand of others concerning the a lot and we shall be waiting for One Honourable Member said there will be no consumption motion. If at all the Minister the response regarding the issue. if corporal punishment is to be of alcohol and I request for does not approve of the proposed I thank you Mr Chairman. administered; the perpetrator will support from this Honourable age, then we shall find another MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you, have to undress. That person is the House on this motion. My alternative. I thank you Mr motion is divided into four parts; Honourable Minister. one who humiliates himself by Chairman. committing crime, punishment consequences and disadvantages KGOSI BOIDITSWE has to be given for that. Some of of alcohol; sole purpose of MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable commemorating the day and its (SEROWE REGION): Thank the offences committed by these Members, I believe we have advantage. The fourth point is you Mr Chairman and Honourable culprits include even beating done justice to this motion, so conclusion. We always hear on their own parents to give them I will request that we give the Minister. I do appreciate the way radios and televisions about the money to drink alcohol. Let me Honourable Minister the floor the Honourable Minister has repercussions of alcohol intake not be long Mr Chairman and be responded. There is a saying that in our lives and how it hampers to respond to Kgosi Boiditswe’s brief as the Honourable Minister. the law is a like a puff udder, the success of a country. If the motion. I thank you. if it is not tempered with, it is leadership is the one indulging MINISTER FOR harmless, but once angered, MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you, in alcohol consumption, then PRESIDENTIAL it fights back and so does the Kgosi Boiditswe. According to it affects their health and even AFFAIRS AND PUBLIC Law. If one does not commit our Rules of Procedure, after a performance at work. Studies ADMINISTRATION (HON an offence, they will never go debate on a motion, we have to have revealed that alcohol is one M. E. K. MASISI): Thank against the Law, but once they conclude it with a vote and if of the key factors that contribute you Mr Chairman. I am going do, that is where the problem will many are of the opinion, and then to road accidents. It further to be as brief as possible start. The Law is there to govern the motion shall be passed. contributes to passion killings 56 57 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion especially among the youth and no longer shaking and when individuals about the effects and is not only about health but it a study has revealed that these asked why he was not shaking problems brought by alcohol. can also affect negatively your mostly happen after alcohol he told the Doctor that when Furthermore, it will be to bring resting place when you leave this consumption. In addition, it he is shaking, he drinks and the people together, those who world. If one does not inherit the affects students’ education shaking stops. The Doctor then drink and the those who sell. kingdom of God they are going because if such a student is wrote the alcohol as prescription Normally there are forums where to hell, this is what it means. always under the influence of for him and ever since then, this discussions about responsible Honourable Members, this is the alcohol, there is no how they can man is still drinking and the drinking are conducted and motion that I have tabled before be able to study well. It slows quivers are getting worse. I want how to avoid the problems this Honourable House and I their concentration level. If the to put more emphasis on the fact accompanied by excessive need your support so that our teachers too are always under the that there is nothing noble about drinking. The intention is to have Government can also support it influence of alcohol, they will fail drinking alcohol. It is so because all the affected persons like the and set aside a day in which there to perform effectively because even if one continues to drink it police, teachers and retailers will be no alcohol consumption. of the hangover. Besides that, and it helps to stop the quivering gathered in one place so that On that day, those who drink will students are fond of emulating temporarily, the truth is the body we can have an open discussion be inducted on how they can stop others, once they see that their system will continue to absorb about this issue. The crucial drinking and also those who do teacher is always drunk; they more of it which in any way is idea is for the public to become not drink could be sensitized on not helping the situation. This conscious and aware of the the dangers of alcohol intake. will think that is the way to go. ultimately brings nothing but disadvantages and consequences I will stop here Honourable So alcohol is not good in that complications to one’s health. manner. of drinking alcohol, by so doing Members. I thank you Mr I shall now talk about the sole It is also not good for people’s it might positively impact on Chairman. purpose of commemorating this those who are still alive and health. If a person is always under MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable day. It is basically to sensitize the might somehow cease drinking. the influence of alcohol, they can public, individuals and families Members, we have heard Kgosi In a nutshell, that will be the have memory lapses and even about the consequences of taking Garebakwena’s motion which purpose of commemorating affect the body physically. We in alcohol. This will be to show requests for a day to be set aside that day because this will be know that there are those who are how it can affect families and for commemorating non-alcohol equipping the public with already addicted. They quiver if the community once indulges day. knowledge. Honourable they do not drink alcohol. There in drinking. In a family, if it is Members, my motion is not KGOSI SEKWENYANE is a certain man that I knew who the man or woman drinking, the that long. I borrowed Kgosi (NGWAKETSE WEST had this disorder of shaking as bulk of the money is spent on Masunga’s bible and was reading REGION): Thank you Mr a result of too much alcohol alcohol and eventually there will Galatians 5 which talks about Chairman. I do not support this consumption. It happened that be no food in the house and the the sins that can hinder one motion at all because I am just he got sick and was admitted education of the children will be to enter the kingdom of God. wondering how this day will be to the hospital, and because he compromised because no one It states that ‘drunkenness is commemorated. What will be in had a problem of addiction, his cares about their school work. relatives had to bring him alcohol one of those things which will store for us on this day and how even when hospitalised. So one Like I have already said, the hinder a person from inheriting will the events unfold? Were there day when the Doctor was doing purpose will be to sensitise the Kingdom of God.’ So that ever consultations with those the rounds, he found that he was the nation, communities and is how serious this matter is. It who drink alcohol? Will there be 58 59 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion some sort of entertainment across some of the points he has I want to point out that or any other certain place where the whole country and what will mentioned concerning alcohol Government accepted the there will be guest speakers who happen to those who drink? Why intake. requests even though it took long will speak to the public about not consult with the retailers that for them to be implemented. the consequences of drinking on this day all their stores should I just wanted to remind this It has been evident that things alcohol. Honourable House that we once be closed so that no one will have have changed and the situation We know that from time to tabled motions related to this access to alcohol and it should is no longer like before because time we are either called from issue in this Honourable House be known that in this country there is limited selling of alcohol our Dikgotla to discipline and I think it was me and Kgosi there is a day that no one drinks in homes. Even the Police are students who take alcohol and Garebakwena. Some of the alcohol. Why then was alcohol trying by all means to monitor they are brought to us. These motions were passed while others manufactured? Really, I do not the situation on roads because are some of the burning issues were not. One of the motions support this motion and I do they have station Police buses that we are faced with in our requested for Government to not think I can ever change my on roads to test level of alcohol communities. Our Government licence alcohol sold in homes mind about that. The mover of on drivers. I believe our has really tried to address all just like it is done with the bars the motion mentioned the issue Government has really done a these and things have improved because we were concerned with of hangover and I am failing to lot. We know that the alcohol so much that everyone can see. the rate at which it was sold. understand the meaning behind levy was increased even though It does not have to stop there Furthermore, to have regulated that and the fact that he said it the nation was displeased about though; the sensitisation has times at which alcohol will be even affects students’ learning it, but the money was used on to be a continuous practice. sold so that shebeens do not capacity. Maybe the mover of educating the public about the One other challenging issue sell from morning until evening the motion will get a chance to dangers of alcohol. I understood that we have in this country and playing loud music at the further clarify what he meant the mover of the motion very is livestock roaming on the same time. During that time, by hangover. He also talked well and he was not suggesting roads. My belief is that there is we expressed our concern on about the issue of people having that a day should be set aside not enough knowledge when the safety of children including tremors as a result of drinking where people will not be working it comes to the Law especially their studies and also that the alcohol but we always see people but celebrating. I believe it will drunken driving. Some may be tranquillity was under threat, around shaking when they do be just like other commemorated aware that they are committing even the surroundings were no not even drink alcohol. With days like ‘No tobacco day’ which an offence but they do not know longer safe. I believe these were those words, I do not support this advocates for less or no smoking the seriousness of the offence; motion. some of the interventions that of tobacco. I am not sure if I will therefore there is a serious need KGOSI MOSADI (BALETE): we proposed in this Honourable still be on the same page with the to educate Batswana on good and Thank you Mr Chairman. I have House requesting Government to mover of the motion, but I do not acceptable behaviours. It would think in a democratic country be impossible to say there should understood very well that the consider such regulations which mover of the motion is requesting there can be a day where there is be no alcohol consumption on were good for the well-being of this day, but just education and for the commemoration of a non- no alcohol consumption at all. I Batswana. This was driven by the think this can be a day where the sensitization about the negative alcohol day. I am not sure as to impacts on either the family, fact that there was an alarming public can be sensitized about the whether I will be supporting community and surrounding. or derailing from what he has rise in road accidents which were dangers of alcohol consumption. This would teach people about already said, but I do support caused by drunken driving. This can be done in our Dikgotla responsible drinking. 60 61 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion Another issue is that of hangover. country at heart. If we become but the moment it crosses the people at a tender age and those Honourable Members, that too relaxed just because we are socially acceptable standard line who are already in the habit of condition exists and if you were a democratic country then there then it becomes dangerous. The drinking about the consequences to ask me if I have ever had it I will be chaos. If we maintain nation has reached a point where of drinking. Most of the would say no. We only get to see this proposal, we shall indeed it has now accepted drinking of alcoholics also smoke and this it in other people. It is so bad so see a massive reduction of road alcohol. The problem arises when can greatly affect the respiratory much that the person would be accidents and passion killings an individual crosses the line and system of an individual. shaking and the only remedy for that are mostly influenced by portrays some of the behavioural It can also affect a man’s sexual that to stop would be to give them alcohol. Teachers shall maintain patterns that were mentioned by health which will in turn affect alcohol. In some cases, those a sober habit and be effective Kgosi Boiditswe earlier on in his the family. These are live addicted to alcohol and happen and efficient. The Honourable motion of increasing age limit experiences that are there in to be admitted at the hospital, Minister should be able to agree for corporal punishment to 50. our communities. Honourable are normally injected with with this Honourable House that Mr Chairman, alcohol is one Members we were with the medication that contains alcohol this motion should be passed so of the contributing factors of Permanent Secretary in our so as to stabilise everything. In that we can have this day just like low production in this country. briefings at President Hotel who other situations, you will find that many other commemorated days Monday is one of the days on updated us on the number of the person suffers from tremors like HIV/AIDS day, alcohol and which most alcoholics fail to road accidents that have been but when they stop drinking, many others that are celebrated show up at work. One of my recorded. The Police officer they recuperate after some time internationally. I do not see any colleagues is already in that highlighted that there are 400 to because the alcohol is no longer problem with commemorating situation, he is an alcoholic and 500 deaths in road accidents that in their system. I do not wish such a day. I thank you Mr most of the time I have been have been linked to alcohol. Mr to be long on this motion but I Chairman. asked to relieve him of his duties Chairman, I believe it is time believe that if the public could KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH but I do not entertain that because that we face this issue of alcohol be sensitised, then all these EAST REGION): Thank you Mr I believe he can still be assisted. because our Government has predicaments that we are faced Chairman. I stand here to support Secondly, our Government is already taken a step and there with would come to an end. There this motion emphasising on the left with huge health bills to pay has been a tremendous change is already a change that has taken points that have been raised by because alcohol can affect some but it has to start with educating place so we are aiming at having the two previous speakers. Mr body organs which may require the young ones. This is because total eradication of the problems. Chairman, alcohol is one of the transplants. Most of them are young people start drinking out These days we talk about poverty diseases that this country has not even covered by the medical of curiosity and peer pressure. eradication and not reduction and been affected by. I will refer to it aid. Mr Chairman, this day will so we want to apply that even as being a disease with particular basically be about promoting With those reasons Mr on this issue. We should move reference to HIV/AIDS at responsible drinking and Chairman, I support this motion. away from the idea of reducing the top of the list. The rate at behaviour and even to encourage I think the alcohol and tobacco these bad habits of drinking to which alcohol consumption has people to quit drinking. The target advertising is also not regulated not drinking at all so that we increased has negatively affected is to help as many people as we because a lot of money is spent may be able to raise children our lives. Mr Chairman, there can to eventually quit drinking. in advertising; they are attention who are free from alcohol and is nothing wrong with alcohol Furthermore, this day will be grabbers and so appealing to the who will have the interest of this consumption, anyone can drink advocating for sensitizing young viewer. This Honourable House

62 63 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion will remember that I once tabled education like billboards could of educating the public. This day next person who does not drink a motion which is still to come be used to sensitize the public. should highly be esteemed just responsibly like us. Therefore again about the Advertising We are an advisory body to the like other celebrated days. It will we should not focus on ourselves Standard Authority; it is one of Government in various matters not cause any complications, only but the nation at large and the things that will help regulate that are of public interest and we maybe it might demand some the consequences of that. I am not issues like these. Lastly, I think know some of the advices can extra costs but we should put attacking anybody Mr Chairman. it is high time our Government be accepted and some not but I that aside Honourable Minister I just wanted us to understand build rehabilitation centres humbly request the Honourable and consider the welfare of the this Honourable Members. We for alcoholics or have them in Minister to consider this one nation. If we place the costs that should be exemplary and show existing hospitals because I think since it has no complications. I will be incurred implementing our people the right way of life Sbrana Psychiatric Hospital is thank you Mr Chairman. the project before everything, but instead we are the ones who meant for the mentally challenged then we do not have the interests indulge in such acts and that is KGOSI SEEMEKO only. The Government decided of the nation at heart. I think not right. So let us go straight to (SPECIALLY ELECTED): to build centres for HIV/AIDS. this is a very crucial issue the point and request this day to Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand The same could be done for Mr Chairman. If we were to be commemorated just like other to support this motion too. I take alcohol because we already have look at my age mates who are commemorated days. Without it that there is none of us who can those who are dependent on alcoholics, you will see that there wasting any time, I support claim that they do not know the alcohol, so these will rehabilitate is a huge difference between us this motion. I thank you Mr consequences of drinking. Even them and they will ultimately because they are badly affected Chairman. if you have never tasted alcohol quit drinking. That rehabilitation by alcohol. As leaders we cannot but you have at least seen the KGOSI BOIDITSWE cannot be done by just anyone sit, relax and let our people drink behaviour of those who drink. (SEROWE REGION): I stand because it needs specialised care beer just because they have the Mr Chairman, we are faced with to support this motion. I take to reach the intended persons. I right to do so. a serious challenges back in our it that the Ministry of Health thank you Mr Chairman. villages. We have seen families We are not saying alcohol retails will take the responsibility of KGOSI TOTO II breaking apart and one of the should be closed or that people preparing for this day and various (KGALAGADI SOUTH contributing factors is alcohol. should stop drinking, but we regions will take turns in hosting. REGION): Thank you Mr It has caused a lot of people to are simply saying people should I think this will be a very positive Chairman. I stand here to support overlook their responsibilities to be educated. Mr Chairman. day. Even though there is a this motion because it is straight their families. We are not saying There is no use in making Laws challenge of financial recession, forward and very brief. The gist people should stop drinking, but that are not comprehensible to the welfare of the people should of the matter is that Government we are simply saying people the intended audience. Let us be given priority regardless of should set a day aside for non- should be sensitized. Some educate them first then come the down turn of the economy. consumption of alcohol just habits die hard so we are saying up with Laws. By so doing we The truth of the matter is that like other days designated for they should be cautioned on the will be illustrating responsible people are much more willing to various activities. This day will aftermaths of drinking. leadership before our nation. If quit drinking alcohol and drugs basically be about sensitising the we do not support the Motion just but there are no centres where public about the repercussions We are not saying all these to because we drink, we would not they can go for rehabilitation. of drinking. We are very much ridicule those who drink, we just be fair to ourselves. If we are to As Kgosi Masunga has already aware that other means of want to emphasise the importance do that, we should think about the stated, there should be clinics and

64 65 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion stalls during the commemoration KGOSI RAMOKWENA Another example Mr Chairman keep on repeating the same point so that after being given (MAUN REGION): Thank is that of a certain man working makes the intended message information those concerned you Mr Chairman. I am going in Maun. This man bought cattle lose value. I think Honourable could go for counselling in those to be as brief as possible. I and when he had accumulated Members have touched on the stalls. I used to drink alcohol and support this motion because it more, people regarded him as a most crucial points but I will it is hard to quit drinking once will be sensitizing the public on rich man; mind you he was just briefly like to point out that we you are used to it. Rehabilitation the negative impact of alcohol. a driver. When he heard this, he should not be hypocrites. The centres can help. I once asked a Through your permission Mr became egotistical and started bottom line is that alcohol is friend of mine why he always Chairman, I would like to quote drinking at the bars and he not good and if it was possible drink after a hangover and he from the bible in the book of would buy five beers then drink it would be much better to ban told me that there is a Setswana Genesis and if I had it I would only three of them and leave the it from the community. There saying that mitlwa o tlhomolwa do so word for word. It states rest. Then it happened that one are countries where alcohol ka o mongwe that is; when you that Noah was a close friend day a man came to our offices has been banned. We have had have a problem, you can use that to God. He built an ark which demanding his cattle from this alcohol before and we always very same cause of the problem he had been ordered to put all man because apparently he had regret it because alcohol always to solve it. types of living creatures in it, been buying alcohol with his causes us to behave in a manner he saved a lot of species. Then cattle. It was obvious that he that ultimately disgraces us. This That is why I support the mover the world was swept away by a did that under the influence of really proves that alcohol can of the motion. We are not saying flood, everything died, became alcohol. Alcohol has a huge never build a person but only it should be a holiday but rather it dry and he started planting negative impact. We should never destroy and there is nothing should be just a commemoration some vines. It happened that get weary of fighting against it. good that can be shown out of it. day. Even though it is stated that one day he wanted to be merry If statistics were to be confirmed Mr Chairman, I must commend this will be a commemoration, and it is said that he ate a lot of with the Police as to how many Kgosi Garebakwena for tabling others might confuse it with vine fruits; he became drunk so recorded car accidents caused by such a motion because it is long celebration and maybe there is much that he was naked, but he intoxication have been recorded, overdue to sensitize the nation a need to differentiate the two. was an elderly man who had it will be a great number. We about the dangers of alcohol. With those words Mr Chairman, a close relationship with God. have lost highly educated people Alcohol can derail a person I support the motion. I believe The moment he decided to drink due to drunkenness because altogether. If on that day, we shall that this day will make a alcohol, he degraded himself. it does not matter whether be sensitizing the public about difference in a lot of lives; some Alcohol can separate you from someone is of highest caliber or the dangers of drinking alcohol will end up quitting, even though the grace and love of God. We are not; they all go through the same while alcohol retails are open, some will hesitate to attend it not saying it should be stopped route if they drink. So if we have then we will be contradicting because they will know it is because that will be impossible this day, the public will get a ourselves. It will be like we are and even those who drink will be the end of drinking. What I like chance to be educated about the encouraging people to go and most about this day is that it will very upset if we were to stop it. dangers of alcohol. I thank you Kgosi Garebakwena has tabled a drink first then come back to be commemorated across the Mr Chairman. wonderful motion and I believe listen to the message after that. country in various villages and at least a few will be converted KGOSI MOETI II They should be closed and no saving so many souls at the same during the commemoration of (SPECIALLY ELECTED): one should be allowed to drink, time. I thank you Mr Chairman. this day. Thank you Mr Chairman. To even addicts. There should be 66 67 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion consistency in that practice and Another issue is that of rape. is time. This issue of alcohol has KGOSI MACHILIDZA I do not think there will be any People commit rape while under been well debated but maybe we (BOTETI REGION): It is damage done in just closing for the influence of alcohol but under did not take into consideration indeed late Mr Chairman. I do not a day. I know business owners normal circumstances, those are some of the key factors. Each have much to say. I do not think will say it is an opportunity lost the things they can never do. country has got its own Laws that it will be a good idea to have but it will be about educating the Mr Chairman, alcohol degrades govern it and even how it relates so many commemorated days public. Alcohol is considered to a person and delays people to with other countries. I want to in our calendar. This is a very be one of the contributing factors develop themselves. take this country as business good proposal and it is possible that fire up the spread of HIV/ which offers foreign investment. to implement it. If it not going to When people knock off from AIDS. When we talk of infidelity be included in the calendar, then work, all they do is drink instead Other countries should be able and divorce, alcohol is at the I do not have any problem with of doing productive things that to benchmark from our country centre of everything because it. If we end up having too many will help improve their lives. As when it comes to the number once a person starts drinking, holidays in our calendar, then it a result, people are not able to of holidays we have. That is we they become promiscuous. I might not represent us well in accomplish their dreams. There do not have too many holidays, once came across a cartoon other countries that are interested are a lot of people who did not go thereby leading to less days that showed when one is under in investing in our country. far with their education because the influence of alcohol, their at work. If we have too many Mr Chairman, since you have of alcohol. It can also compete judgment is affected. One man holidays it is unfavourable for requested for us to be conscious with one’s self development was sitting next to an ugly investors. So let us look at this of time, with those few words I with regards to Christianity lady, after taking few beers the from a perspective of investment shall end my debate. I thank you. and morality. It changes one’s man started seeing the lady to see if they will be of benefit behavioral patterns and character, MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you beautiful and he declared his to us… and leaves one in a pool of debt. Kgosi Machilidza. With that, love for her. This indicates that Such people do not take their MR CHAIRMAN: It is 12:30 I shall now hand over to the alcohol can change a person’s full responsibility at home. That p.m. We shall continue where Honourable Minister, Reverend character hence becoming loose. is why I am of the view that this Kgosi Machilidza stopped after Dr. John Seakgosing to respond. Kgosi Garebakwena, we really is a straight forward motion and lunch at 2:30 p.m. commend you for tabling this it is overdue, this day should MINISTER OF HEALTH motion, because when it comes PROCEEDINGS have been there long time ago (REV. DR. SEAKGOSING): to road accidents, it is a huge SUSPENDED FOR LUNCH to sensitize Batswana about Thank you Mr Chairman with problem. Sometimes one may this. Our request is that this MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI all due respect. The Ministry of practice safe driving, but another day should be included in our GABORONE): Good afternoon Health welcomes all efforts by person can put their lives at risk this Honourable House, Ntlo Government calendar. I thank Honourable Members and by reckless driving due to the Ya Dikgosi, in assisting the you Mr Chairman. welcome to the afternoon influence of alcohol. Government to address alcohol Most of the criminals do their KGOSI MACHILIDZA session. Kgosi Machilidza was abuse. It pleases us so much to criminal activities under the (BOTETI REGION): Thank on the floor before we went for know that we are not the only influence of alcohol and when you Mr Chairman. I am lunch. I would like to give him ones who are struggling with this the person is sober, they tend conscious of time, but it is still this chance but bearing in mind issue. It also pleases us to know not to remember what happened. fine, you shall stop me when it that it is getting late. that as our Dikgosi you have

68 69 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Alcoholic Day - Motion Alcoholic Day - Motion taken this issue to your heart times. We also encourage them are alcohol related, is it not time motion, Kgosi Garebakwena to and you want to do everything to continuously educate their we do something about it? This conclude on his motion. possible to address it. constituents on harms associated is why the Ministry has already KGOSI GAREBAKWENA with alcohol use. Many of our started this national alcohol (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): Our experience with other annual commemorations are campaign to address this matter. Thank you Mr Chairman and annual commemorations that also in line with those that have Therefore Honourable Members, Honourable Minister for the we hold indicates that it is much been established by the United it is not like we are just seated response. The Minister has more beneficial to continuously Nations, based on their burden like spectators, we are already indicated there is already an on- educate the public on public globally. We have contacted dealing with this issue. One going national alcohol campaign. health matters, rather than having the World Health Organisation Honourable Member has already He has heard all our concerns a specific date set aside. In some already here in Gaborone and stated things like opening and and he shall make it a point that instances, these issues are not they have informed us that closing times for places of he monitors the situation to see adequately attended to and are there is no such day set aside drinking and even alcohol levies progress, but I am not implying left to these specific days. People by the United Nations. We are are on the agenda. Honourable that we will not have any role to have a tendency to wait for a not saying that just because Members have already stipulated play. prescribed day to give issues the the United Nations has not set literally everything that I can say. attention they deserve. The end the date, therefore the country I do not have to take much of your I would like to point out that even result is that we concentrate all cannot or the Government cannot time to repeat what you have though I have said we should have our efforts on a day that has been do that. We are simply saying said already except to say that I a commemoration day, I was not set aside and much of the time that we already have the national appreciate your concern, but we implying that it should be a one throughout the year there is very alcohol campaign that advocates are already doing something in day event. I meant that the day little that we do to respond to the for abstinence. I want to stress that line. should be used to wrap up events issue of concern. that point because if you look that would have been happening We are beginning to review It is also not very clear what the deeper into it you will realise throughout the months in a year. that already we have something these commemorations because rationale is for declaring a day as We appreciate the efforts that our that is equivalent to what you are we want to know whether alcohol free would be when there Government has embarked on; asking for. they are really working well is already a national alcohol we should be kept abreast with for us, or if the campaigns are campaign that advocates for I want to thank you for the everything so that at the end of overshadowing them. If you are abstinence. In other words, what concern that you have because all it we have a role to play too. We going to have one day out 365 I am saying here is that what you the ills that you stipulated here in need to be updated on everything days, as compared to campaigns are asking for is the equivalent your deliveries are really the true that will be taking place because that go on throughout the year, of what we already have. It is problems that we encounter with sometimes Public officers just is that not better than a date to with this in mind that we are alcohol abuse every day. There come into our villages and do commemorate? Mr Chairman, hesitant to support the motion is a lot of murder. There is a lot things that we know nothing with due respect thank you very of declaring an alcohol free day. of rape in this country and there about without involving us. This much indeed for the time. Alcohol is a chronic public health are a lot of road accidents in this issue is a bit disturbing because concern throughout the country; country, the majority of which MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you we cannot have a sustainable hence we encourage all districts result in death. Quite often they Honourable Minister. I will now economy if our young generation to host alcohol free events at all are alcohol related and if they hand over to the mover of the indulges in alcohol drinking. 70 71 Tuesday 30th October, 2012 Introduction of a Non- Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Alcoholic Day - Motion Back in the days, we knew that conclude by way of voting which further take this opportunity to shall accomplish a lot by 2016. adults were the only ones that will be the resolution of this acknowledge the presence of the Mr Chairman, I am not in a drank alcohol but now that our Honourable House. Honourable Minister of Local position to explain the origins of children are the working force, Government and his Assistant. all Dikgotla in the entire Chobe Question put and agreed to. they can afford to buy their own With that having been said, District including the inheritance alcoholic drinks. Honourable On that note Honourable we shall start off our today’s of Headmanship. The Chobe community and their traditional Members, our business for today Members have already indicated business with questions. leadership would be in a better the negative effects of drinking shall end here and I would like QUESTIONS FOR position to explain such. I thank alcohol especially if the person to remind us especially the ORAL ANSWER you Mr Chairman. starts at a younger age because Media that as usual, tomorrow such person has a bleak future. we shall meet at 2:30 p.m. In KGOSI MMUALEFHE: KGOSI MMUALEFHE: It does not matter how educated the morning we shall be handing Thank you Mr Chairman. May I Thank you Mr Chairman. The that person is because alcohol over our Manyana house project. kindly defer this question? Honourable Minister has indeed weakens the body system and Honourable Members please do given an honest answer. I thank MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi ultimately crippling the person’s remain behind. There are a few you. Mmualefhe has requested that we abilities in all aspects of life. announcements that I have to defer the first question. We shall KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank Thank you Honourable Minister make regarding arrangements for proceed to the next question. you Mr Chairman. I am not sure and all Honourable Members tomorrow. if the Minister of Transport and who have contributed on this ORIGINS OF DIKGOTLA ADJOURNMENT Communications is available to motion because it has driven IN THE ENTIRE CHOBE answer my question. our point home even though the The meeting adjourned at14:41 DISTRICT st MR CHAIRMAN: Is anyone motion has not been passed. On p.m. until Wednesday 31 representing the Minister of the other hand, he has highlighted October 2012 at 14:30 p.m. KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE (CHOBE DISTRICT): to Transport and Communications? what Government intends to Wednesday 31st October, 2012 do and we shall be united in ask the Minister of Local HONOURABLE SIELE: its execution. I thank you Mr THE HOUSE met at 2.30 p.m. Government to explain the We have agreed to answer it origins of all Dikgotla in the Chairman and Honourable (THE CHAIRPERSON in the Mr Chairman because it falls entire Chobe District and Minister. Chair) under the Ministry of Local in how many of these is the Government. If it is the one for MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you P R A Y E R S Headmanship inherited. Kgosi Ndzonga, then it falls Kgosi Garebakwena. I believe * * * * within the Ministry of Local the Honourable Minister has MINISTER OF LOCAL Government. responded and he did not agree MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI GOVERNMENT to the proposed motion. On PUSO GABORONE): Let me (HONOURABLE SIELE): COSTS OF SOME ROADS IN the other hand, Honourable take this opportunity to greet Thank you Mr Chairman. First TUTUME REGION Members have voiced out their you all Honourable Members. and foremost I would like to views. My duty was to be the I believe we had a well spent commend this Honourable KGOSI T. NDZONGA convener because according day from the Manyana Project. House for the job well done (TUTUME REGION): asked to the Rules of Procedure We were priveledged to see the after building a house for the the Minister of Transport and after every debate, we have to results of our hard work. Let me under privileged. Indeed we Communications to state:- 72 73 Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

(i) how much money was used and the contract balances are still traverse areas that are known to UPGRADING CHIEF to construct Nata-Sepako available to pay any outstanding be natural routes for animals. I REPRESENTATIVES OF and Mosetse-Tutume contractual obligations that may thank you Mr Chairman. I am SOME VILLAGES IN roads; arise at the closure of the project. very sorry for the lengthy answer. NGWAKETSE WEST An example maybe claims for (ii) how much money was left KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank KGOSI P. SEKWENYANE properties that may have been and what was it used for; you Mr Chairman. I fail to (NGWAKETSE WEST): asked damaged due to the project. On understand why the Honourable the Minister of Local Government (iii) if the Minister did not find both Nata/Sepako road and the Minister is saying that the if he will consider upgrading it proper to construct a 17 Mosetse/Tutume road, there are Tutume/Goshwe and Nkange/ the Chief Representatives of kilometre Tutume-Goshwe still some works being undertaken Changate roads are not included Maokane, Khakhea and Sekoma road; and and these are anticipated to be under the plan when we know to a Senior Chief level to ease up completed on the 6th November (iv) Why Mosetse-Tutume road very well that they are. If it the pressure of work on the vast 2012 and 14th December 2012 was not fenced. happens that the defects liability Ngwaketse West area. respectively. This work which is period elapses and there are no MINISTER OF LOCAL still to be completed during the MINISTER OF LOCAL extra costs incurred, is it not GOVERNMENT defects liability period and any GOVERNMENT possible to use that remainder to (HONOURABLE SIELE): Mr other additional works that may (HONOURABLE SIELE): develop Tutume Sub- District? Chairman the Nata/Sepako road have been properly authorised Thank you very much Mr is complete and has been handed during the course of the contract I am asking this because it is Chairman. My Ministry, in over and under the defects will have to be paid out of the one of those regions that are collaboration with Bogosi in liability period. The contract for contractors’ final payment period lagging behind when it comes to Ngwaketse, has assessed the this road was awarded at a cost prior to the project being closed. development more so that there workload of Maokane/Khakhea of P321.765, 834.60 and the are quite a number of projects and Sekoma Dikgotla, and the expenditure on the project to-date The Tutume/Goshwe road is that are still on the pipeline. I report reflects that the number not included in the National of cases which were registered is P314.493, 388.73. The balance thank you. of the contract sum is therefore Development Plan 10; hence in the respective courts in 2011 P7.272, 445.87. The Mosetse/ my Ministry would not have HONOURABLE SIELE: is not adequate to warrant the Tutume road is also complete considered implementation Mr Chairman, if there is any upgrading of these Customary and has been handed over; it is of a project that had not been remainder, the community can Courts. I will provide the under the defects liability period. approved for implementation look into other projects that statistics showing the number of The contract for the construction during the current development are still pending and prioritize cases registered at these Dikgotla for this road was awarded at a plan period. accordingly. I thank you Mr during the period we are talking about Mr Chairman. Thank you cost of P212.929, 004.90, and The Mosetse/Tutume road was Chairman. the expenditure on the project very much. not fenced because the fencing KGOSI NDZONGA: I thank to-date is P198.497, 977.01. component did not form part of you Honourable Minister for KGOSI SEKWENYANE: I The balance of the contract is the project scope. The decision to that answer and the fact that the heard the Honourable Minister therefore P14.431, 027.89. exclude the fencing component money can actually be used by however; I shall talk to him The final account for both of these was informed, in part, by the the district for something else. I outside because I know why I projects has not been completed fact that the road was going to thank you Mr Chairman. asked this question. I thank you. 74 75 Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

KGOSI MMUALEFHE: I PROVISION OF 504 (4) which requires them HONOURABLE V. T. would like to defer question WATERPROOF and I quote “To take all the SERETSE: Thank you, Mr 5 Mr Chairman because the MONEYBAGS TO necessary action to safeguard Chairman. As I indicated in the responsible Minister is not here. SECRETARIES/REVENUE Government revenue for which last paragraph, we shall take COLLECTORS DURING he is responsible.” Mr Chairman, effective steps immediately so MR CHAIRMAN: Thank RAINY SEASONS that we can address the situation. you Kgosi Mmualefhe. The revenue collection requires Thank you. Honourable Minister of KGOSI J. MOSEKI (GHANZI putting up a comprehensive Environment, Wildlife and EAST REGION): asked monitoring mechanism to ensure KGOSI MOSEKI: Thank Tourism is absent, therefore the Minister of Finance and proper collection, recording, you Mr Chairman. Thank you Kgosi is requesting for a Development Planning whether safe keeping and timely deposit Honourable Minister, may I deferment. I believe no one has he will consider providing of money. In this regard, urge you to address the situation been sent on his behalf, is that secretaries/revenue collectors the Ministry of Finance and immediately because when it is raining, these bags get soaked not true Honourable Ministers? who do not have Revenue offices Development Planning has come with waterproof moneybags and this is a worrisome situation. HONOURABLE MEMBER: up with defined set of procedures during rainy seasons as they carry I thank you Mr Chairman. We have not been sent. to be followed in handling and payment vouchers in envelopes MR CHAIRMAN: Thank depositing of revenue. These KGOSI MMUALEFHE: The when going to revenue. you Kgosi. I believe that the procedures are enforced through same goes for Question 6 Mr Honourable Minister has heard MINISTER OF FINANCE Chairman. regular inspections by our that and he even indicated in AND DEVELOPMENT Treasury Cashiers in all districts. his answer that he shall take PLANNING (HON V.T. MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you With regard to the specific matter effective steps to address your SERETSE): Mr Chairman, Kgosi Mmualefhe. Question 6 at hand, the Ministry of Finance concern. Thank you. according to instruction 901 of has been deferred too because the and Development will liaise the financial instructions and KGOSI MOETI II responsible Minister is absent. with the Accounting Officers procedures issued pursuant (SPECIALLY ELECTED): KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Thank to Section 44 of the Finance to address these matters. Thank asked the Minister of Local you Mr Chairman. Like Kgosi and Audit Act Cap: 5401, you, Mr Chairman. Government to state:- Mmualefhe, I have to defer my I quote, “It is the issue of (i) why the streets of Sanyedi, question, Mr Chairman. It has KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Thank the Accounting Officer to Shorobe, Mabudutsa, been perceived that we only ask you Mr Chairman. It is indeed ensure that Departmental and Boyei, Kgosing and questions to Ministry of Local true that Revenue Collectors put District revenue collectors and Shageng wards were Government, and after this, we money in unprotected bags. Even Paying officers throughout the omitted when street lights have no choice but to continue where they keep the money in Ministries who are required were recently introduced with that practice because other to hold Government money, Village Development Committee in Maun even though crime Ministries do not show up Mr stamps, officials receipts, etc (VDC) houses, is not safe. Now statistics indicate that they Chairman. I thank you. are provided with proper safe that the Honourable Minister have the highest crime in MR CHAIRMAN: I am not custody facilities”. appreciates this, how long is the District due to their sure who uttered those words but Read together with the Revenue it going to take to correct the proximity to the main mall, in any case, we shall proceed. Collectors duties instruction situation? bus rank and bars; and 76 77 Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

(ii) Will the Minister further streets have the highest crime HONOURABLE (ii) the measures he has put explain the criterion statistics due to their proximity TSHIRELETSO: It is a in place to motivate the generally used to determine to the main mall and the bus wonderful proposal indeed growth of the project. the streets and roads that rank, which means they have a and we will consider it if funds ASSISTANT MINISTER OF qualify to have street lights. huge traffic flow. So my question permit. Let me suggest to Kgosi LOCAL GOVERNMENT is, will they not be considered Moeti to go and consult with (HON TSHIRELETSO): ASSISTANT MINISTER OF any time soon because I believe the Council about the proposal Thank you, Mr Chairman. The LOCAL GOVERNMENT failure to include them was a made by Kgosi Boiditswe which Ministry of Local Government (HON TSHIRELETSO): mistake. would not require a lot of money. plays an oversight role in the Thank you Mr Chairman. I thank you. coordination and implementation During the implementation of HONOURABLE of the project through the office the recently completed street TSHIRELETSO: Thank you KGOSI MOETI II: Thank you of the District Commissioner lighting project in Maun, the Mr Chairman and Honourable Mr Chairman. I have already as the project is the brain North West District Council did Kgosi. As I have already proposed this issue to the Council child of one of the Ministry’s not include the streetlights in indicated, we are doing our Mid- and I did not get a satisfactory Departments which is the Tribal Sanyedi, Shorobe, Mabudutsa, Term Review and I am aware response. That is why I passed it Administration. Over the years Boyei, Kgosing and Shageng that the Council did not include to this Honourable House. I was since inception of the project in wards,. This was so because them even after the meeting you surprised that they were omitted 2008, the Ministry continuously these wards were not part of held with them. It is not that I while they are well known old contributes immensely towards the scope of work for the Maun dispute what Kgosi is saying roads which are part of our the growth of the project. It is Phase II infrastructure project. because I know the places he history and they were tarred a actively involved in the resource Mr Chairman, the principal is talking about and they are long time ago. I will however mobilization for the project criteria considered for selection prone to crime. Development present the proposal made by which includes the human of roads and streets requiring plans are done by the Districts, Kgosi Boiditswe. Honourable transport and overtime payment. installation of streetlights is the Bogosi, Councillors and Village Minister, may I request that you Mr Chairman, my Ministry number of vehicles utilising the Development Committees keep on checking them and I will through its Departments, also road and the activities being (VDCs), they are the ones who try to do the same too. I thank mounts educational stalls for conducted in the built up areas decide the order of priority you. information dissemination to the that the road is servicing. I thank in projects implementation. youth and the communities of you, Mr Chairman. I believe we shall deliver KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH this message to the relevant the targeted villages of Tsamaya, EAST DISTRICT): asked the KGOSI MOETI II: Honourable authorities. I thank you Mr Sivia, Themashanga, Mabutsane Minister of Local Government to Minister, you have highlighted Chairman. and Jackalas No.2 for increased state:- that there are some factors that KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Thank programme uptake of the are taken into consideration you Mr Chairman. If someone (i) his role in the North East various services. As a Ministry when selecting roads that require was to propose the use of one District community project responsible for social protection installation of streetlights. The huge light that can cover a great of “Youth empowered and promotion of good social roads that I have mentioned are distance instead of street lights, against crime and HIV/ values, the project was initiated old roads that are frequently would the Honourable Minister AIDS in partnership with to promote good social values used. I have indicated that these consider the proposal? the community”; and in response to addressing 78 79 Wednesday 31st October, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer challenges that young people HONOURABLE KGOSI MOETI II: Thank you to our meeting. I would also like face regarding crime, alcohol TSHIRELETSO: Thank you Mr Chairman. Due to the reasons to acknowledge the Honourable substance abuse as well as HIV/ Mr Chairman. The issue of stated earlier on, I request to Minister from Agriculture, AIDS. Lastly Mr Chairman, as a appreciating and rewarding is not defer question 12. Honourable Molebatsi, measure to motivate the growth timed because it can even go to Honourable Masimolole, the MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you of the project, my Ministry has an extent of honouring someone Assistant Minister of Education Kgosi Moeti. It looks like Kgosi developed a five year strategic who has already passed on but as and Skills Development and Moeti has been having serious plan that will ensure project for us, it is a continuous thing. Honourable Molefhi who is discussions with Ministry of replication to other villages in We can also look into honouring the Minister of Transport and Local Government. I want to the District for best behavioural people by issuing them with Communications. We also have assume that you shall come practices. I thank you, Mr certificates; something which in our presence students from prepared as you have highlighted. Chairman. is done by the Chinese which I Mophane Primary School who think can always be done by your KGOSI MOETI II: May I are basically here to observe KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank districts. They could liaise with request to defer even this one Mr the proceedings of this House. I you Mr Chairman. During the the Ministry so that such people Chairman. welcome you all to this House. period in which this project was can be recognised. We shall now start with the completed, did you recognise MR CHAIRMAN: Question 13 has been deferred too due to the business that is in today’s order any officers for their contribution Even our Minister, Honourable same reasons. We have come to paper and as usual we shall start in this project? It might be in Siele who has our interests at the end of today’s business. We with the questions. the form of certificates, rewards, heart and is such a visionary shall meet here tomorrow. promotions or any other reward leader, decided to honour us with QUESTIONS FOR system available in this era? I certificates after scooping the The Meeting adjourned at 14.55 ORAL ANSWER st thank you. first position in Botswana Public pm. until Thursday 1 November, GRAVELLING OF SOME Service Convention Awards. I 2012 at 9.30 a.m. ROADS IN CHOBE HONOURABLE believe that this is something st DISTRICT TSHIRELETSO: We have which can be arranged with your Thursday 1 November, 2012 KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE acknowledged them but as for region. This is a good advice THE HOUSE met at 09:25 (CHOBE DISTRICT): asked rewards, nothing has been done to the Ministry and we highly a.m. so far because they are seasonal. appreciate it. Concerning the the Minister of Transport and I thank you Mr Chairman. second question, this is a project (CHAIRMARN in the Chair) Communications when he for Public servants and it falls intends to gravel Kachikau KGOSI MASUNGA: My last under the Tribal Administration, P R A Y E R S via Savuti, Mababe, Sankoyo question is when do you intend so even if one officer goes, others * * * * to Shorobe road with the inter to reward the drivers of this could always take over from junctions to Parakarungu and project, are there any plans to do where they left off. They may CHAIRMAN’S Satau. so? The other question is, since get lucky if it happens that they OPENING REMARKS are taken for training. If they do MINISTER OF TRANSPORT some of these drivers were taken not have that privilege to go for MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI AND COMMUNICATIONS for training at the Botswana training, they will continue the PUSO GABORONE): Good (HON MOLEFHI): Mr Police, are there any plans to work through your assistance. I morning Honourable Members. Chairman, my Ministry has no train others? thank you Mr Chairman. I would like to welcome you all intentions to gravel the Kachikau 80 81 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer road via Savuti, as this road, is going to attract more users. not deem it necessary to improve the same response and that is which runs through the Moremi This in turn would mean that those roads in the villages of the fact that there is no plan for Game Reserve, has a key the frequent usage of the road Sankoyo and Mababe since the graveling that road. Thank you purpose to be part of the tourists would end up affecting the population in those areas is big. Mr Chairman. experience in its current state. environment around which is Can those roads be improved so Gravelling the road will destroy the main tourists attraction. It is that the ailing patients can be KGOSI MMUALEFHE: the pristine environment thus not only in this country that we transported comfortably when Thank you Mr Chairman. Would reducing the attractiveness of the have seen this happening but it being taken to the health centres? it not be possible for the road wilderness. The risks of driving is something that has happened to be diverted away from the HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: at high speed will drive away the in other countries as well. Even national park so that it joins Thank you Mr Chairman. I very attractions we seek to offer in one area from Kgosi’s region the inter junction of Shorobe or have explained that the road and promote. My Ministry will, there is a transmission tower Sankoyo? that connects all those villages however, spot improve the 78 that has been placed inside the that I mentioned before will be HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: km road from Shorobe through national park and tourists have gravelled and the tender will Mr Chairman I cannot ascertain Sankoyo to Mababe. Tender complained that it obstructs their be submitted to the Ministerial to you whether it can be possible for re-gravelling of this road view and prevents them from Tender Committee tomorrow. or not because I do not know the has been evaluated and is to be seeing the beautiful nature. This The Committee will sit and area very well. I will have to submitted to Ministerial Tender eventually led to the tower being evaluate the tender for grading consult the technicians who have Committee (MTC) by tomorrow moved from the Savuti national those roads because currently the skills to determine what can be the 2nd November 2012 and the park and placed elsewhere where that is all that can be done possible especially considering contract will last one year from it does not obstruct the view. with regards to improving that this is a wet area. Perhaps date of award. I thank you, Mr Lately there has been reports the standards. Thank you Mr where Kgosi is suggesting that Chairman. of poachers and if we gravel Chairman. we divert the road to might lead this road we would be making KGOSI MMUALEFHE: to those wet areas and that in turn things relatively easy for them KGOSI MOETI II: Thank you Thank You Mr Chairman. I could be very costly. I am not in to get to wherever they want to Mr Chairman. A lot of people would like the Minister to any way trying to imply that cost go in order for them to kill our from the areas that have been explain to me what he means can outweigh people’s lives but animals. Those are the reasons mentioned really wish to see this by saying that if the road was to those are some of the issues that why we are saying that we road maintained. Is there any way be gravelled it would negatively are considered. Thank you. cannot gravel it however we that it can be maintained without affect tourism. I do not agree shall improve it wherever we can it affecting tourism because KGOSI MMUALEFHE: with those sentiments and does without necessarily gravelling it. people have long complained Thank you Mr Chairman. the Minister have any examples The roads that will definitely be about it? Thank you. The last request I have for the as to how this could possibly Minister is for him to clarify to gravelled are those of the villages HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: affect tourism in a negative way? the House... of Khwai, Mababe and Sankoyo I can understand what Kgosi is HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: up to Shorobe. saying Mr Chairman. Last week HONOURABLE Thank you Mr Chairman. KGOSI LEMPADI: Thank you I was at the North West region CHAIRMAN: Kgosi What I am basically saying is Mr Chairman. I would like to and a similar question was raised Mmualefhe, please remember that if the road is gravelled it know from the Minister if he does by the residents. I gave them that these supplementary

82 83 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer questions are not supposed to the Kachikau, Savuti, Mababe KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: not old and where car servicing end up being like we are now and Sankoyo roads. I think Thank you Mr Chairman. I would is much better. I thank you Mr debating a motion. Rule 19(2) the issue about the differences like to urge the Honourable Chairman. explains that, “after the answer between animals is not relative Minister to take hasty steps to the original question. KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: to a question has been given, because we are seriously Thank you Mr Chairman and supplementary questions may at inconvenienced due to shortage DELAYED REPLACEMENT Honourable Minister. the discretion of the Chairman be of vehicles. There is a Setswana OF BOARDED VEHICLES put for the purpose of elucidating saying that moroto wa e esi ga o REPARING AND TARRING the answer given orally.” I KGOSI A. MONNAATHEBE ele that can be translated to mean OF SOME ROADS IN have the authority to prevent (THAMAGA REGION): asked that no man is an Island. When NGAMI REGION those supplementary questions the Minister of Transport and we try to borrow… KGOSI E. POTSOENG that threaten to turn the initial Communications if he is aware (NGAMI REGION): asked question into something else. that vehicles are boarded but are MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi can the Minister of Transport and you kindly ask your question. KGOSI MMUALEFHE: Thank not replaced within the shortest Communications to state:- reasonable period, if so, how you Mr Chairman. With your KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: (i) when he intends to repair does he intend to address the permission Mr Chairman I would I wanted to ask the Honourable the Toteng-Gumare road; situation? like to ask the last question. I Minister if he is aware that and would like the Minister to clarify MINISTER OF TRANSPORT we are faced with shortage of how different are the animals (ii) when the Tsau, Semboyo, AND COMMUNICATIONS vehicles in our Dikgotla. I thank that are in the National Parks Makakung and Kareng of Moremi/ Savuti, Nxai Pan as (HON MOLEFHI): Mr you Mr Chairman. roads will be tarred. Chairman, the vehicle well as other places like Loneli HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: tree from the ones that we are replacement vote has been MINISTER OF TRANSPORT Thank you Mr Chairman. We are referring to in this situation? decentralised to all Ministries AND COMMUNICATIONS aware of the shortage of vehicles Thank you. and Departments since the (HON MOLEFHI): Mr in Customary Courts but as I Chairman, procurement for the MR CHAIRMAN: I would like financial year 2008/2009 and have already indicated, this has re-seal of the Maun/Sehitwa to reiterate the Rule that I was therefore the Ministries and been decentralized to Ministries road is on-going. Currently reading earlier on and it reads, Departments are expected to and Departments to take care of the Department of Roads is “after the answer to a question budget for replacement of their all that. The main challenge has evaluating tenders for this has been given, supplementary vehicles on yearly basis. Due to been the economic down turn. particular road. The re-seal of the questions may at the discretion the current economic down turn What we are aiming at achieving Maun/Sehitwa road is expected of the Chairman be put for the Ministries and Departments are unable to accommodate all their is to advise Government to improve the condition of the purpose of elucidating the answer departments to firstly assess the given orally, but the Chairman boarded vehicles within their road from Toteng to Sehitwa. needs for different clusters and Tendering for the re-seal and may refuse any such question annual budget ceilings. I thank regions when it comes to the rehabilitation of the 70 kilometre which in his opinion introduces you Mr Chairman. suitability of vehicles so that matters not relative to the they purchase the right vehicles road from Tsau to Nokaneng is original question.” Therefore if I MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI for each. Furthermore, those who at a preparatory stage with the read the question correctly it was GABORONE): Thank you are at districts that are far should intention to award by February enquiring about the gravelling of Honourable Minister. be allocated vehicles that are 2013. A physical assessment 84 85 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer of the 45 kilometre section of MINISTER OF TRANSPORT if he is aware that the same that those things in future will not the road from Sehitwa to Tsau AND COMMUNICATIONS question was once tabled in this contaminate the environment. and the 38 kilometre section (HON MOLEFHI): Mr Honourable House in 2009 as a These are on-going discussions from Nokaneng to Gumare, Chairman, my Ministry has motion and the response was that until we reach a consensus as to has revealed that these are in a realised the need for toilet they will be built within a short who will be responsible for what relatively better condition. facilities along Botswana’s period of time. because we have the Botswana highway road network. As Tourism Organization, District The two sections (for Nokaneng HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: it is evident that the public Councils and VDC’s. I thank you to Tsau road) are due for internal The agreement was there Mr especially road users have Mr Chairman. inspection and of course this Chairman but like I said this is unintentionally turned the rest inspection will be completed in something that we are not doing areas into toilet points thus KGOSI MACHILIDZA a fortnight’s time. Mr Chairman, alone, but with the leadership causing environmental pollution (BOTETI REGION): I am my Ministry has presented the of the Councils because after and degradation. My Ministry satisfied with the Honourable District Tender Committee with building them they will need is therefore working on the Minister’s response. The tender bids for the grading of to be taken care of. We have conceptual designs for rest areas Honourable Minister has the 60 kilometre road from Tsau to know the leadership of that for light and heavy vehicles with indicated that Botswana Tourism to Kareng beginning November village where they will be built the aim of encouraging road users Organization has to be consulted 2012 to February 2013 as an and how they will be taken care especially drivers to rest and first before anything environment interim measure. This road has of. In villages where I have relax in designated areas whilst related can be done. My question been budgeted for in the next already had meetings with the on long journeys. This initiative therefore is, why not seek ideas financial year for outsourcing. VDC’s and the Councils, the is meant to reduce fatigue related from them on how best to do all We are currently preparing intention was to establish the accidents while addressing these for progress sake? tender documents for this project distance of the villages from the environmental concerns of waste which will last one year, April main road and if at all the VDC’s HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: generated by road users. It is 2013 to April 2014. I thank you will be responsible for taking The mandate of Botswana expected that this will involve Mr Chairman. care of them. Those who will Tourism Organization is to private sector participation. We be taking care of them shall be ensure that the environment is KGOSI POTSOENG: are engaging discussions with charging every service offered well taken care of. The users Thank you Mr Chairman and Botswana Tourism Organisation, so that the money connected can of the environment have to Honourable Minister. District Councils and Village be used to clean them. They have come up with strategies that PLANS TO BUILD TOILETS Development Communities to be designed in such a way that will comply to the standards IN REST PLACES ALONG along the roads with a view to find they will comply with hygienic set by the organization. They THE MAIN ROADS a sustainable way of managing standards because in some places have to ensure that we use the such facilities, such that they are KGOSI E. POTSOENG the water table is shallow and land properly and safely. There properly maintained and are of (NGAMI REGION): asked therefore they need extra care. is what we call Environmental the Minister of Transport and good hygienic standards, I thank Impact Assessment (EIA). We Communications to update the you Chairman. In other places, there is going to have realized that it is not easy to House if there are any plans to KGOSI POTSOENG: Thank be a need to use chemicals that comply with the sustainable way build toilets in rest places along you Mr Chairman. I wanted to will dissolve anything that will of managing and maintaining the main roads. ask the Honourable Minister be deposited so we have to ensure good hygienic standards of the

86 87 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer environment. Nevertheless we centres, where truck drivers will people coming for road tests at red flag indicating the need to have come up with strategies rest. These are the kind of places Tutume office, if so, how does he have more manpower so as to that are aimed at ensuring that will necessitate us to request intend to address the situation. assist customers effectively and that Government projects are for an allocation of land from efficiently? MINISTER OF TRANSPORT not affected by these policies Land board. After allocation we HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: AND COMMUNICATIONS but also taking into account shall then advertise to all those Thank you Mr Chairman. It is (HON MOLEFHI): Mr that the environment is not in who are interested in having indeed true that this congestion Chairman I am aware of any way susceptible to any such places. Unfortunately Kgosi calls for creation of new posts congestion at our Department harmful factors. I thank you Mr Moeti, this land has already altogether. The challenge of Road Transport and Safety Chairman. been allocated. For instance however is that they are guided offices throughout the country. the road from Francistown to by the number of officers KGOSI MOETI II This is mainly due to shortage Maun, some people have already recommended by the Directorate (SPECIALLY ELECTED): of staff especially on the side of been allocated such land. Just of Public Service Management Thank you Mr Chairman. Will it Driver Examination and Vehicle recently, I was at the Nata Land (DPSM). All Government not be more beneficial to include Licensing officers. Tutume is board and they expressed their Ministries have been given the showers in those toilets so that currently being serviced by an concern over the land that is number of officers needed and drivers especially truck drivers officer from Francistown on there for a long period without that is a guideline. It is not like can shower to relief fatigue and a monthly basis and we have any developments. They are in there are vacancies, but rather also to promote more of their identified a driver Examiner who the process of repossessing those there are no trained personnel. usage. This will also mean more will be transferred to Masunga plots as there are those who have This comes about mainly money coming in. I thank you by 1st January 2013, who shall applied for them. The initiative to because after training them, Mr Chairman. also service Tutume on a weekly have truck-in-centres and toilets they leave for greener pastures basis. I thank you, Chairman. HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: where there are bus shelters to Councils where they operate Thank you Mr Chairman. These along the main tarred roads is KGOSI MACHILIDZA: as transport officers. Ultimately are two different projects. There still in the pipeline. I thank you Thank you Mr Chairman, the we are forced to constantly train are resting places which do not Mr Chairman. Honourable Minister has just officers. The fact that we are need showers, and then there are KGOSI POTSOENG: indicated that he is aware of looking for trained personnel the truck-in-centres where there Thank you Mr Chairman and the congestion. Is it not that makes it difficult for us to get will be accommodation, showers Honourable Minister. congestion is a red flag for need them. The intention is to have and a cooking place. We have to have more man power thus diverse trained personnel and it been having consultations with CONGESTION CAUSED creating jobs. will happen in some instances the Land boards to reserve land BY PEOPLE COMING FOR that we retain a few trained MR CHAIRMAN: I did not get for such places especially in our ROAD TESTS AT TUTUME officers whilst others go for your question Kgosi Machilidza. main roads. OFFICE greener pastures. In other district The road from Ramatlabama KGOSI T. NDZONGA KGOSI MACHILIDZA: regions, we engage temporary goes through Ramokgwebana, (TUTUME REGION): asked The Honourable Minister has officers but we intend to build a Kasane then Maun and Gantsi/ the Minister of Transport and just indicated that he is aware relationship with the Department Mamuno. These are the roads that Communications if he is aware of the congestion. Does he of Transport under training so we have realized need truck-in- of the congestion caused by agree that this congestion is a that they can assist in identifying 88 89 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer the number of officers needed Development Plan 10 and we are one in Francistown because they Post Office in Molepolole since for training. In some of these considering installing computers are in the same region. I thank it is small and not functioning vacancies, we are going to in all the stations that we have you Mr Chairman. adequately. need mechanics because these like Gaborone, Serowe, Palapye MINISTER OF TRANSPORT departments do not offer lucrative and Francistown where they do KGOSI NDZONGA: I doubt AND COMMUNICATIONS salaries. Nevertheless we are vehicle testing. These will ease the short distance the Honourable (HON MOLEFHI): Mr considering rationalisation of the congestion of work load Minister is talking about because Chairman, Botswana Post cannot other posts in order to use their and we will be able to redeploy Francistown is nearer when renovate the Mathubantwa Post money to upgrade other posts. officers to other places where using a private vehicle. So if Office as it has been designated In other posts we are looking this kind of services will not the officer will still be alone, it a national monument by the for expertise in mechanics be offered. These are on-going will not solve anything. They Department of National Museum because the salary offers in these trials. We are anticipating more should rather be two, one from and Monuments. Botswana departments are not lucrative fund allocation in our Ministry Francistown and another from Post has been trying to obtain a and as a result we are unable to in the next coming financial year Masunga. suitable plot to develop a new get qualified personnel. We are up to 2016. If we are successful, HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: post office without success as the therefore still looking into the then that is when we can engage Mr Chairman. I have already old one is located within a built idea of rationalisation of posts. private companies so that we can explained that we have shortage up area. I therefore appeal to all These are some of the efforts that hand over some of the work to of man power and as long as concerned to assist Botswana we are engaged in together with them and remain with some. I we have that, we shall continue Post to identify a plot within the DPSM to see if it will work for us thank you Mr Chairman. to have officers working from same area for the development or not. I thank you Mr Chairman. KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank office to office. I thank you Mr of a new post office. I thank you KGOSI POTSOENG (MAUN you Mr Chairman. Is the Minister Chairman. Chairman. REGION): Thank you Mr assuring this Honourable House KGOSI GAREBAKWENA: Chairman and Honourable that there will be an officer from KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank you Thank you Mr Chairman. Minister. This issue seems to Masunga and Francistown to Mr Chairman and Honourable Is the Honourable Minister be problematic. Would it not complement the one in Tutume? Minister. This has not in any way implying that his Ministry is not be much better if it would be a Does the Minister consider it solved any problem. responsible for repairing the roof Parastatal for better efficient and solving any problem? I ask CONSIDERING since it was destroyed by the effective services? I thank you this because it will still cost RENOVATING AND winds? Mr Chairman. Batswana to go to places like EXTENDING THE OLD Masunga and Francistown HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: MATHUBANTWA POST Mr Chairman, we shall continue looking for examiners? I thank OFFICE IN MOLEPOLOLE Thank you Mr Chairman. We you Mr Chairman. to restore the building so that have already benchmarked KGOSI GAREBAKWENA there may be a continuity of from other countries to observe HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): minor services. Until we find how they do it so that we do The officer will still be alone but asked the Minister of Transport sufficient land to build proper not end up with congestions in we are of the view that if that and Communications if he offices, we shall continue to use our offices. We are currently officer is in Masunga, they will will consider renovating and these small offices. I thank you preparing for our National still be nearer to Tutume than the extending the old Mathubantwa Mr Chairman. 90 91 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

KGOSI GAREBAKWENA: • 2007/2008 P7,417,732.54 knowhow but they are expected KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Has Thank you Mr Chairman and to take care of these vehicles. Is it this been the main reason why • 2008/2009 P8,037,540.81 Honourable Minister. not time we designate the proper CTO always fails to service • 2009/2010 P8,142,985.74 qualified transport officers to vehicles on time? I say this MANAGEMENT OF manage the Government fleet. I because they take a lot of time to GOVERNMENT FLEET • 2010/2011 P9,174,010.54 thank you Mr Chairman. do that. Was this because there KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH • 2011/2012 P6,383,497.07 HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: were no regulations? EAST DISTRICT): asked Mr Chairman, I am however Thank you Mr Chairman. HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: the Minister of Transport and unable to provide figures The expectation is that when Mr Chairman, lack of regulations Communications:- pertaining to the quantities Ministries and departments was not the cause of the delay. employ officers, they should (i) when he will designate and cost occasioned by theft When a car is taken for service, employ qualified transport and appoint qualified of spare parts, fuelling and the driver has to identify the officers. What Kgosi has said transport officers within tendering. This will be provided problem that needs to be attended is actually true because in the Government departments later as our information is still to. The transport officer will have next financial year, 2013/2014 to manage Government being compiled. I thank you Mr to fill up the job card to confirm we will be conducting trials on fleet especially in the Chairman. that. The delay is caused by the decentralizing the controlling of Districts; and fact that vehicles that are still KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank Government fleet and even their under warranty have to be taken (ii) to further explain how you Mr Chairman. When looking servicing in various Ministries to the dealership and those are much the Government has at the current figures and the and departments. We believe the people who are slow with lost due to road accidents, economic challenges, does the that this will direct Ministries in their services. On our part, we theft of spares, fuel and Honourable Minister not find employing the relevant officers are normally delayed by our tendering in the last five it fit and cost saving to have at with the right qualifications. spare parts retailers. These are years. least one officer in each District We are going to be monitoring the main reasons that cause the who will man Government fleet? the service level agreements delays in servicing of cars. Even MINISTER OF TRANSPORT I thank you. such that every vehicle will be if we were to do a checklist in all AND COMMUNICATIONS monitored as they are given to our regions, we would still find (HON MOLEFHI): Mr HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: Mr Chairman, I did not different departments by the the same status. There was also Chairman, my Ministry does not Central Transport Organisation an issue concerning the purchase employ staff for other ministries understand Kgosi’s answer well. Did he mean we should employ (CTO). They will also be of tyres. When we realised and departments. It is the duty monitored when they are taken that there is a delay with the of the various ministries and private mechanics or a company to repair these vehicles? to a mechanic and the kind of spare parts retailer, we decided departments to recruit and service that will be done on it to separate the two tenders. employ their staff including KGOSI MASUNGA: will also be monitored. I believe This is because according to transport officers. Honourable Minister, I was all Government departments procurement regulations, if Botswana Government has referring to employees, I will will be cognisant of the new those are together and the other spent the following amounts on clarify it further. Currently regulations and they will be product is delivered first, there is accidents repairs in the past five officers who are employed in this taken into practice. I thank you no how it can be taken to be used financial years: area do not have the technical Mr Chairman. before the other is delivered. The 92 93 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer intention is to allocate recurrent to that vehicle until the service be forced to reduce the lower CONSIDERATION TO budget money to all the depots is complete. We shall also ensure salaries so that we can employ RENAME OFFICE OF THE so that if there are any urgent that all the vehicles that will people with specialised skills OMBUDSMAN repairing that needs to be done be awaiting spare parts will and we believe their salaries KGOSI O. S. MACHILIDZA like in ambulances and police be locked in a different place will be upgraded as they go (BOTETI REGION): asked the vehicles, then they can always from the rest of the vehicles up the ladder of promotion. Minister for Presidential Affairs buy from any retailer. This will that are taken for service. When To add on to what Kgosi has and Public Administration if he be a way of avoiding any delays we evaluate all the costs that already said, the drivers for the will consider renaming the office that we normally experience we incur, we have realised that Mercedes and BMW should have when a vehicle is taken for there is no accountability when a higher qualification because of the Ombudsman to make it service. We believe this will it comes to loss of spare parts, sometimes they can be delegated gender neutral since females can really improve service delivery. petrol and others because we to drive our foreign visitors and also hold such a position. KGOSI MASUNGA: I am do not have proper structures in communication on the basics can ACTING MINISTER considering the amount of place to monitor that. I thank you be a challenge. I thank you Mr FOR PRESIDENTIAL money that the Honourable Mr Chairman. Chairman. AFFAIRS AND PUBLIC Minister has just stated and it KGOSI MASUNGA: My last KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank ADMINISTRATION (HON is close to a million pula. My question, does the Honourable you Mr Chairman. MASIMOLOLE): Good question therefore is, since the morning Mr Chairman and Minister not see it as unfair and POSTING OF A department of Central Transport Honourable Members. Mr mismatching to have drivers who VETERINARY OFFICER TO Organization falls under his Chairman, there is no need to drive BMW 5 Series, Mercedes KAVIMBA Ministry, what cost cutting Benz on A Scale to be surcharged consider renaming the office KGOSI M. SINVULA measures does he have in place for wrecking Government of the Ombudsman to make it (SPECIALLY ELECTED): to reduce expenditure and also vehicle while their salary is close gender neutral because the name for everything to be of value to asked the Minister of Agriculture to nothing. Ombudsman has nothing to do Government? if he will consider posting a with the office bearer but rather HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: HONOURABLE MOLEFHI: Veterinary officer to be stationed describes the duties of the office One thing that we shall continue Thank you Mr Chairman. at Kavimba area so as to assist bearer. The phrase ‘ombudsman’ to practice is to tighten the Law Regulations of employment farmers during disease outbreaks. that is defender of man is in of surcharging all the reckless and salaries are controlled by MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi two parts. There is ‘Ombuds’ drivers. Furthermore, we shall Department of Public Service Sinvula. meaning defender and ‘man’ keep a tight security for all Management. As I have in the generic sense as human Government vehicles that are already stated, where there was KGOSI M. SINVULA: Thank beings, people, and members taken for service because some negligence, the concerned driver you Mr Chairman, I wish to of the public but not man being of the parts are stolen while the shall be surcharged regardless of withdraw this question because the opposite of a woman. It is vehicle is at the Government the scale they are in. Therefore that officer is already there. for this reason that the Setswana garage. We shall keep an that money will be deducted Thank you Mr Chairman and translation is Mosireletsi and in inventory of every car taken from the salary of the driver Honourable. full mosireletsi wa batho being for service and the mechanic until the money charged is MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you, man or members of the public. Mr responsible shall be answerable completed. This means we will Kgosi Sinvula. Chairman, in essence the phrase 94 95 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion ‘ombudsman’ is merely the KGOSI MASUNGA: instance. If in Scandinavia they and Honourable Members, I original Scandinavian language Honourable Minister will there have a problem with appointing found it proper to table such a meaning public protector in ever be a time where we shall women to such positions, even motion with the reasons that the English translation and bring it closer to home and coin though we have borrowed their I shall give thereafter. First Mosireletsi in the Setswana a word that Batswana will be word, it will never affect us here and foremost, let us have a translation all focusing on the conversant with, just to give it a because we are focused in women closer look at democracy. I duties but not the person. I thank believe that Botswana is a local perspective. I take it that you empowerment. Furthermore, it you, Mr Chairman. have given a better explanation peculiar nation guided by its does not necessarily mean if the Constitution right from the era KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Thank of the word Mosireletsi, maybe position is currently held by a when it was led by Dikgosi until you Mr Chairman. I am not sure it is time we switched from woman, it shall continue to so independence from 1966 to date. if I will be derailing from the the word Ombudsman and use even in future. I thank you Mr It has been evident enough that matter however the Honourable Mosireletsi. I thank you. Chairman. participatory democracy where Minister has indicated that every Motswana is entitled to this word ordinates from HONOURABLE KGOSI MACHILIDZA: have a say on the processes of Scandinavia. Is it not equivalent MASIMOLOLE: Thank you Thank you Mr Chairman and this country is something that to the word Chairman, which Mr Chairman. The changing Honourable Minister. has been practised. The million we got rid of in our country and of the name is the sole MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you dollar question is, why table replaced with Chairperson as a responsibility of the nation, Kgosi Machilidza. Honourable such a motion. Mr Chairman, I way of bringing equality? Does so before any consensus was Members we have come to the have tabled this motion because I the fact that it originates from reached, there were consultations end of our questions for today’s have realized that the department Scandinavia hinder us from with the nation to agree on the business, we shall continue with of Independent Electoral correcting it? name Mosireletsi wa Setshaba. Better still, if the nation is the Order Paper. Commission (IEC) which has HONOURABLE of the opinion that the name AUTOMATIC AND been mandated with managing MASIMOLOLE: Thank you Ombudsman should be replaced COMPUTERISED the electoral process is faced Mr Chairman. They are not with the local spoken name, VOTERS ROLL with huge challenges. That in my the same Kgosi. We have other Mosireletsi, then it is something opinion indicates that they need Motion support in order to achieve their borrowed words from other that can be considered. I thank goal. countries which we are using and you Mr Chairman. KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH Firstly I will look at the process of this particular word is different KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Since EAST): Thank you Mr voter registration. I have realised from other English words like this is a Scandinavian word by Chairman. I stand before this Honourable House to present this that there is a lot of money Chairman. We have modified origin, do they have women injected towards this, starting holding such positions in their motion which reads thus, “That Chairman to be gender neutral to with the primary elections during country? this Honourable House requests read chairperson. This one too is Government to introduce an which the officers have to go to referred to in this manner unless HONOURABLE automatic and computerised different regions. The majority in particular countries where MASIMOLOLE: Thank you voters’ roll in order to make of these officers are Public they have chosen to refer to it as Mr Chairman. We are talking the voting process easier and servants and some have to be Public Protector. about our country in this convenient.” Mr Chairman temporarily employed in order 96 97 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion to conduct these elections. In my after registration has been done, Botswana Post house to house. was not a holiday. In Botswana, own perspective, this is costly there is a supplementary one. It In this case the automatic voters voting day is not a public holiday to our Government. Secondly, is normally aimed at giving those roll will automatically register which means any student sitting the money used to pay all those who did not manage to register at all those children when they turn for examinations cannot vote. who engaged in this work is a stipulated time an opportunity 18 years of age because they Secondly, voting in Botswana is the money which in my view to do so. I believe that the IEC has will be eligible to vote. There an unpaid leave, which means could be used in developing managed to perform very well in is also Omang, driver’s licence anybody who does not wish this country. Mr Chairman, this managing the electoral processes and Botswana Unified Revenue to have an unpaid leave would whole arrangement ultimately which were fair, democratic and (BURS) which are working rather opt to stay in the office ends in having supplementary dignified. We are living in those on updating their databases and not vote. These are some registration for cases where there times where now our country has and this will assist to compile of the contributing factors that have been delays for those who to have the electoral reforms just a database which will include can hamper Batswana from could not register in time due like any other individual who has everyone which will be accessed exercising their right to vote. some circumstances. With the a constant introspection to ensure by Omang offices and Botswana If every Motswana was to reasons that I have just stated, I that they are still on the right Post. The only challenge will be exercise that right, then that wanted to say... track towards achieving their when an individual changes their would be a confirmed practice of goal. Just to highlight something address. If it happens that there MR CHAIRMAN: I think it democracy. We are not implying on IEC, there is currently a high is change of address, then an is 10:30 Kgosi Masunga and that Batswana are not given degree of worry that there is no it is time for tea. I believe individual can make an affidavit the opportunity to vote, but we professionalism and impartiality we were still explaining the signed by Kgosi to assist IEC are saying let us improve the due to its independence because supplementary registration, you establish the whereabouts of that instruments or the processes the Secretary is appointed by His will continue when we come person and their existence. This which will give Motswana the Excellency, the President and not back. We shall resume at 11:00. will just be to inform the IEC of right tools to vote. Mr Chairman, Parliament. I am pronouncing the change of address. I am referring to voting both PROCEEDINGS all these before this Honourable for Parliamentary candidacy SUSPENDED FOR House just to prove why I am Australia is one of the countries and Councils. Even the rate APPROXIMATELY 30 advocating for automatic and that have automatic voters of election date is determined MINUTES computerised voters roll. roll, not only do they have by the President, there is no Firstly, Government has that, they also have a Law that proper fixed date set for the MR CHAIRMAN: Good initiated a pilot project; Land compels every citizen to vote. dates to be out. Furthermore, morning once again Honourable Administration Procedures, So basically this is more or less there is the issue of political Members. Let us proceed where Capacity and Systems what I am proposing now; it will imbalance because there is no we left off. Kgosi Masunga was (LAPCAS) which I believe is give citizens the democracy to political funding in this country still on the floor explaining about geared at the registration of participate. When looking at the and that makes the playing field supplementary registration. plots. It is aimed at ensuring number of people who voted in imbalanced. The automatic and KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank that every plot has a registered 2009, most of the people who computerised voters roll will you Mr Chairman. I shall number and also to see if streets did not exercise their right to assist in cutting costs. While we continue with my motion. I was could be used as a guide when vote were those who sat for await implementation of a Law still explaining that normally it comes to delivery of mail by examinations because that day that will advocate for funding of 98 99 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion political parties, automatic voters cannot effectively reach them. Laws and policies that will cover do exist. It can also help to reduce roll empowers every Motswana, Mr Chairman, this means even the gaps that exist. The voter will the registering of dead people be it the visually impaired, senior if someone was interested be left with the responsibility and voter trafficking which is a citizen or a public servant who is in voting especially the first of voting the Government of serious concern. In this motion 18 years and above to vote. As I time voters, they will not have their choice on the stipulated Honourable Members, I request have already stated, the reason the privilege and access to day of elections. With that Mr for your support. I thank you. why people end up failing to that public information. The Chairman, I shall conclude my MR CHAIRMAN: Thank vote is because they are engaged recommendation was that our motion. I believe Botswana is a you Kgosi Masunga. I believe at work. We have seen what Government was urged to enact a matured democracy but time is Honourable Members were happened at BURS where a lot media Law that will regulate the not on our side because there are paying attention to Kgosi of people failed to register and media coverage on the election a lot of questions concerning the Masunga’s presentation on his they did late registration which process. economic status of Botswana. tabled motion of automatic and was overwhelming for the office. A lot are of the opinion that computerised voters roll. As is This is a confirmation that indeed The autonomy of the Independent competitively Botswana’s the procedure, I shall now open Batswana need to be reminded Electoral Commission (IEC) economy is declining and even the floor to Honourable Members constantly in order to achieve which was mentioned in the the democratic processes. We for their input on this motion and their goal. So the automatic voters report indicated that there are know that historically we were I believe they will not derail from roll will greatly improve women certain players in the political the shining example, the beacon the gist of the matter. With that, representation in Parliament and field of Botswana; this is of democracy. That however the floor is open to Honourable the local authority. something that raised a concern. Mr Chairman, the autonomy of does not mean we are no longer Members. that but maybe complacency has This will also enhance the IEC can on its own hamper some KGOSI BOIDITSWE come into play and therefore desires of those who have not of these recommendations to be (SEROWE REGION): Thank we should go back to the roots. been interested in voting to start implemented because the fact you Mr Chairman. I stand here That is all I had to say about doing so because they will be in that people can vote peacefully to support this motion because it my motion. Let me reiterate the voters roll. I have already does not mean the elections can came at the right time, therefore that all these processes will be touched on the expenditure that be deemed free and fair. ideally we should not be left computerised. I recently advised it is costly to Government. I The voters roll controversies, behind or be ahead of the actual the Department of Education on believe that the automatic voters’ is one of the factors that delay events. Indeed there should be a the computerised system, I think rolls and computerised voters the whole process and in fact in computerised voter’s roll so that you are all aware of that. All the roll will help to protect our some instances some people who when young people turn 18, then young people who turn 18 years Government from having articles have registered will discover that they are automatically registered of age should automatically be from international observers that their names do not appear on the as a way of instilling a sense entered into the system because reflect negatively. One of the voters roll during the elections. of responsibility in them. This it is just a matter of programming articles that they have publicized In conclusion Mr Chairman, might not only be applicable to the computer. This will mean indicates that in Botswana, the the whole idea is to shift the elections; there will be other media coverage is imbalanced, responsibility of the election they can liaise with the Omang events that will require the use which means the intended process from the individual to and Transport offices just to of this computerised data. Mr message for the intended people the agency and instruments of ensure that the registered people Chairman, I do not know if this 100 101 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion will be put on record however I system, things can improve and KGOSI MONNAATHEBE other Member’s arguments. This was really impressed to see young the perpetrators can always be (THAMAGA REGION): is according to our procedures people visiting this House this called for disciplinary action or Thank you Mr Chairman. I too and it was just a reminder. morning. This is where instilling be disqualified. If it happens that stand to support this motion of responsibility can start. the winning margin is equivalent because it is a good one and it is KGOSI MACHILIDZA Furthermore students should to the voters trafficked, that clear. (BOTETI REGION): Thank be encouraged to attend this margin should be cancelled or you Mr Chairman. The mover We are living in the era in Honourable House to appreciate disqualified. of the motion has covered most which we are not yet able to what happens in here and also in of the issues here. Mr Chairman, Mr Chairman, I do not know computerise all the data but Parliament. This will also lessen we know very well that decisions how this system could also be we have managed to do some. the commotion that we normally on issues like these lie with the practised at party level; I should This motion will really benefit experience during registration powers that be but then again, hasten to clarify that I do not vote us positively. It would really be of elections. The only work that it is crucial to take into account for a party but for Government. unnecessary for us to keep on will be left to do is to confirm the interest of the nation. The We are a peaceful country and reiterating the same points. This valid dates of Identity Cards most vital point here is the we do not want to destroy that. is a good sign that we are going (Omang), residential address dignity of a person, it should However we have to bear in somewhere as a country because and also if registered people are highly be upheld. We are a mind that it doesn’t take any this means we shall have our own still alive. I also believe other democratic country, but if one huge problem for the peace to be voters roll database. Most of the countries could benchmark from was to closely scrutinize things, destroyed. Maybe there should times when a good motion like this system. This is something they would realise there is a lot be strategies in place to guide this is debated we tend to keep on that they could always take home that is swept under the carpet political parties when it comes repeating the same thing that has as they come to observe the and that the will of the majority to the Primary elections so that already been said by the mover elections. Mr Chairman, this will is not taken into consideration. there is no voter trafficking. of the motion. I commend the further empower IEC because we I am saying this because other Eventually there are conflicts mover for tabling this motion. I only see it being active during the countries can benchmark from which end up affecting Batswana thank you Mr Chairman. elections. I was a bit surprised this country. Elections are a even though they were not national phenomenon and not when they informed me that MR CHAIRMAN: I have initially part of them. the Government’s responsibility. their office is always active even understood you Kgosi With that Mr Chairman, I However our politicians have after elections because I was Monnaathebe and you have support the motion. I want to add a very huge responsibility of one of the people who had the even alerted me that repeating that I say these things because I leading the nation on voluntary perception that it is an idle office the same thing is not procedural believe this would be our way basis using their own resources after elections. If we have this as per our Rules of Procedure. of developing the way we have which at the end impoverish I am not barring Honourable automatic computerised system, been doing things. If we are not them. This situation needs to be Members from speaking but I it will really boost their working yet democratic, then this will be revised so that politicians can wanted to put a point across the conditions. a way of starting, we are getting be funded to enable them to run floor that the Chairman has the there. I thank you Mr Chairman. democratic governance. The mover of the motion has right to stop any Member who is also talked about the issue of MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you persistent, irrelevant or speaking Now when it comes to the voter trafficking and through this Kgosi Boiditswe. tedious repetition of his own or components, those at the fore

102 103 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion front should be able to articulate think there can be any hindrance we should be very open, and find had derailed, I believe anyone is it in free spirit. Mr Chairman, for this motion to be considered. a strategy of doing our things. right to correct me and I am not we are very much aware that sure as to how much I derailed. most of the facilities have not Mr Chairman, the mover of the Kgosi has mentioned that young Mr Chairman, I do not wish to yet been decentralised and right motion also talked about media people should be nurtured at be long on this motion, but for a now we are talking of computers coverage. Some of these things a tender age so that they get change can we have something which operate using electricity. get us worried as Dikgosi and accustomed. If things are not coming from this Honourable If I am not wrong, I think most Kgosi Masunga is very right by properly done, there will never House considered and agreed to of the villages in our country so saying. As Dikgosi, Members be transparency but we want in Parliament. If the Government have electricity because most of Parliament and Councillors, to do things that will earn us still has faith in us as traditional of the populations of these we are the leaders of this country respect. As Members of Ntlo Ya leaders who lead this country villages qualify for electricity and we are here to help develop Dikgosi we are failing to deliver before independence, then connection. In other words, the lives of our people. If Kgosi on some of the issues that are agreeing to this motion should villages like Khwee and Xere is given a platform to address community based but we are a not be a problem at all. Kgosi cannot in anyhow stop these the community when a Member Constitutionalised House. Some Masunga has tabled a wonderful good intentions just because of Parliament is having a Kgotla of the things that are done in motion and it should be highly they do not have electricity. meeting, whatever Kgosi says this country related to Ntlo Ya regarded because it is proposed Something could be done on this is never captured on television, Dikgosi are good intentions but by a House that is in the day at the concerned villages only the Member of Parliament ultimately the outcomes do not Constitution of this country. I so that at the end of the day no will be the one to appear. This reflect that very well. We are thank you Mr Chairman. one is denied any right to vote. anomaly should be corrected grounded completely and there MR CHAIRMAN: Thank Furthermore, we know very well because it is discouraging. We is nothing that we can do. Mr you Kgosi Machilidza. I would that our Government encourages all have a fair equal share of Chairman is my witness on this like to remind this Honourable the usage of solar panels. The the resources of this country as one because he had an initiative House that it is stated in Rules whole idea is to beef up what the its citizens. No one should have to take Ntlo Ya Dikgosi to the of Procedure, “a member shall mover of the motion has already an upper hand than the other. people but that initiative was said so that there would be no Things like these should not be shot down. These are some of the restrict his observations to obstacles as to why this motion swept under the carpet because factors that discourage us… the subject under discussion if no one says anything because and shall not introduce matter cannot be considered. In places HONOURABLE MEMBER: of fear of being sabotaged or where electricity has not yet been Let us focus mainly on the tabled irrelevant to that subject.” May stigmatized, then there will never connected, Batswana should be motion because it looks like the I plead with you Honourable be a change. I would like to point encouraged to use solar panel. speaker has derailed from the Members to stick to the matter out that this is a way forward, Mr Chairman, I can see that gist of the matter. at discussion lest we distort its a step forward and a change in this Honourable House supports good intentions? MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi this motion and it is so because our political nature and other Machilidza, please focus on we interact with the community countries will recognize this as a KGOSI TSHIPE Kgosi Masunga’s motion. more. We know that where there mature democracy. No one who (MAHALAPYE REGION): is a community, there is a Kgotla, has set a good reputable record of KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand VDC office, and a Kgosi. I do not work wants to be left behind. So Thank you Mr Chairman. If I here to support this motion which

104 105 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion I believe is overdue. Let me take it that most of the secondary like to reiterate on the words do it. The point that we are point out that this is something schools especially junior schools said by the previous speaker trying to drive home is that this that will be beneficial to us. are in most of the villages across that it is overdue. It appalls me system will reduce costs that There is a probability that the the country. Furthermore, the that livestock registration is Government incurs during the response from the Honourable Ministry is aiming at reaching computerized, whilst the same electoral process. It might be Minister will be that there is an the primary schools, so if that cannot be said for elections. expensive to pilot the project at economic downturn. We are very is to happen, then that will be Why is the same not done for the initial stages, but as time goes much aware of that, but what the a bargain. The other challenge elections? We therefore need on, the costs will be reduced. The mover of the motion is proposing our Government to intervene. officers employed to conduct might be that the Independent Kgosi Masunga has mentioned can actually be a solution to that Electoral Commission (IEC) that there is trafficking of voters the registration often times stay problem in a way. has a shortage of manpower. because after registration, voters all day without anyone coming It might seem like it will cost Mr Chairman, some of these are transferred to other parties, forth to register, and in all the Government but as time goes mentioned schools have officers so computerizing of voters roll 14 days or 21 days there will be on, it will be one of the projects who are not Information will curb that. a poor turnout for registration. that saves Government a lot Technology (IT) conversant and Furthermore, there are vehicles of money. The mover of the they have not been trained in that The other point that I would like that are used during this whole motion has indicated the high field for Junior Schools but these to touch on is that of multiple process and the supervisors expenditure incurred during the computers are under their care. registration of one voter. If we have to keep a regular check of elections starting from ballot These are the officers who could have computerized voters roll, how the registration is going. papers, registration and the be trained by IEC to conduct this then we will never in any way However if we are to adopt this manpower employed to run the job. experience this because it will motion, then there will be no need to have all these extra costs whole event and it is mostly Mr Chairman, I really did not give an individual one chance because it will mean they register teachers, that alone Mr Chairman wish to be long on this motion to register. Sometimes there themselves. Mr Chairman, I do is an indication that a lot of funds because it has been evident can be a misplacement of the not have much to say, I support are being injected to run it. If this enough that the mover of the voters roll registration record, this motion. I thank you Mr new proposed system could be motion has done an extensive but if this kind of information is Chairman. implemented, it could actually research on it. My duty was just computerized, then we will never save Government from spending to support it. The reality is that experience such. If it happens that KGOSI MOETI II a lot. There might be a challenge democracy comes at a cost and the computer gets stolen, then (SPECIALLY ELECTED): of purchasing computers and sometimes we are compelled to it can always be cross checked I thank you Mr Chairman. I all that is needed, but there has spend for its sake. For us to have with other computers in other believe that we are all on the been a proposal that Government a proper Government there has to places. It will further reduce same page on this motion tabled Ministries would have to work be elections first. That is all I had any confusion that might arise by Kgosi Maruje III. Automatic together just as the Ministry of to say Mr Chairman. I thank you. because voters will know their and computerized voters roll that Education has embarked on a places of voting. If Government is used during electronic voting project to buy computers for all KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI is of the view that this will not be is very crucial because it does the secondary schools. Those REGION): Thank you Mr easy to implement, then I suggest not require a lot of explaining. I same computers could be utilized Chairman. I stand here to they embark on a benchmarking am saying this so that we do not during the elections because I support this motion and would trip to see how other countries keep on reiterating on the same 106 107 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion points, nevertheless I would like that if we are to continue holding negated, but these are the tools Motswana whom at the age of 18 to point out that the principle on to that, maybe it is high time that are aimed at enhancing can automatically be registered of democracy is fairness; we benchmarked from other democracy. Now if we are to in the computerized voters roll. justice. One speaker has already countries that practice democracy negate the motion that advocates We are very much aware of this mentioned that democracy and adopt this new system. We for fair elections, it will give our technology because even for is costly during the elections are talking about something country a bad picture in other employees, when it is pay day, because it is the main key. We that is very practical and done countries and even within. We their salaries are automatically have differed on the issue of floor by so many countries. Let us should therefore be sensitive to deposited into their personal crossing which in most cases be careful that our democracy some of these issues lest they accounts. This is an arrangement affects the voter. I believe we is not stagnant such that it will create curiosity and doubts about that has been programmed to do should again be just and give the be over taken by events. We our democracy to other countries that, so the same could happen interest of the voter first priority. are the first country in Africa to out there and even Batswana. with voters roll. We can take a This computerized voting will take democracy seriously, so by living example; we know very In other words, this will be a cater for that because anyone way of adapting to this system, well that when one applies for a positive move for us as we have who is not familiar with voting there will be few mistakes. The passport at Immigration office, been viewed as the role models electronically will be guided. new system will take care of the they have all the information of democracy which we were During the elections there will errors that were encountered in about the applicant from the the first to practice, therefore be less writing and it will reduce the old system. There will be a Omang office. If the information the status quo must remain. the costs that are incurred buying 99.5 per cent accuracy that will provided does not reconcile This motion should be adopted ballot papers. be achieved through this new with the one from Omang, the because it will rectify a lot of system. Therefore, let us rather applicant is then requested to Again, there are other officials anomalies and it is more effective be one of the few countries correct it. from other countries who because the results do not take to have this not the other way come to observe the elections, long to be read out. I thank you around. We should be careful so I think they will not have Mr Chairman. This is something that can be much to do because their that we do not paint a picture beneficial to us if adopted. MR CHAIRMAN: Let me responsibility is to ensure a fair that will portray us as a nation Currently those who wish to remind this Honourable House running of elections. There will that is ignorant to the aspects of stand for elections but do not have that the issue on the floor here be no chance of manipulating democracy because instead of enough resources to mobilize is automatic and computerized the new system such that the implementing, there might be a their campaign; do not have the voters roll. elections become unfair. It has delay. right to stand for the elections. been evident enough that the Someone might wonder why it KGOSI KAHIKO III This is a clear indication that we ballot paper system in other looks like the Policies and Bills (GHANZI WEST REGION): are not a free democratic country; countries is prone to unfairness that are aimed at improving Thank you Mr Chairman. I will it is only free to those who have in the electoral process. As democracy are a bit slow to just be brief Mr Chairman; I the means to fully campaign. If it other Honourable Members adopt. Let me cite just one or two stand here to support this motion. becomes automatic registration, have already indicated, we have examples. Just recently, Freedom Every Motswana has got their those standing for the elections been identified as a role model of Information Bill, Declaration own Omang which is the key will only be tasked with for democracy. I would like to of Assets Bill and Direct Election and password wherever they educating Batswana about the emphasize on that and highlight of the President were tabled and are. It is very possible for every importance of voting for the right

108 109 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion Government. Some people are of Setswana that “mafoko nkgwana and then there is continuous and I want to believe that they the view that this new system will a a garelwa”, that is whatever registration. This continuous were referring to Government cost Government at the initial is said has to be supported by registration goes on until the media which falls under the stage but I do not think that will reasoning. Nevertheless, some of elections are nearer. In addition, Department of Information and be the case. The reality of the the reasoning behind sometimes the mover of the motion has Broadcasting. I am not aware matter is that there will be less does not fit well to the subject touched on the issue of political that there has been a shortage of to spend because we have other matter. One of the points that reforms which is something that coverage. Honourable Members, Government resources that can I picked from Honourable we support. I think one thing the mandate of Information always be used and Government Members is that democracy that we should never seize to and broadcasting department always encourages us to share is costly. Another Honourable do as political leaders, Dikgosi has three aspects; to educate; the resources, like one vehicle Member stated that in the and IEC in our communities to inform and to a very small per village initiative. The same response that will be given, the is instilling education on these extent, entertainment. I do not could be done with the running issue of low economic downturn reforms to improve democracy know how this department has of this new system. Honourable should not be mentioned because such that there will be no failed to deliver all these because Members, that is all I wanted everybody is well aware of that. political imbalance. The issue of we are educated and informed to say and with those words Mr I appreciate that the Honourable political funding is a completely at the same time. I will not Chairman, I thank you. Member is very much aware different matter which can be say much about entertainment discussed at a different level because like I said, it forms a MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI of the state of the economy. or at a different forum. Now small portion of the department. GABORONE): I believe I do agree that democracy is coming back to Independent Nonetheless, we are not saying Honourable Members have expensive and we shall continue Electoral Commission, like we have it all; there is still room spoken very well on this motion; to inject a lot of money towards the word suggests, it is indeed for improvement because I take it is time to hand over the floor enhancing and reinforcing it. independent. Yes I agree with it that you are the stake holders to the Honourable Minister to Honourable Members that and all the suggestions are highly respond. Some Honourable Members were talking about electronic according to the Constitution welcomed for the betterment of ASSISTANT MINISTER OF voting not automatic and of this country, the Secretary is the department. Mr Chairman, EDUCATION AND SKILLS computerised voters roll. That is appointed by His Excellency, voting day is not a public DEVELOPMENT (HON why I had earlier on mentioned the President. Nevertheless, holiday and it is announced by MASIMOLOLE): Thank you that anything spoken should be this does not imply that the His Excellency, the President Mr Chairman and Honourable supported with reasoning that commission is not independent. of the Republic of Botswana. Members. Before I respond back up the main idea. The mover In every election, political parties Honourable Members, our on the tabled motion, let me of the motion, Kgosi Masunga and individuals are at liberty Constitution is an open book in read it first. It reads, “That this has touched on some of the points to observe the whole electoral many aspects. It clearly states the Honourable House request that I said I have picked, like that process and are allowed to voice obligation delegated to various Government to introduce an of electronic voting. He further out their comments based on the offices. However the intention automatic and computerised talked about supplementary observations made. is to change it so that it becomes voter’s roll in order to make registration. It is indeed true The majority of Honourable the responsibility of Batswana the voting process easier and that in our country, there is Members have touched on to agree on the day of elections. convenient”. There is a saying in supplementary registration the issue of media coverage There has been proposals that 110 111 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Voters Roll - Motion Voters Roll - Motion this day should be declared a people, variances are bound to With your permission I want to data electronically structured. We public holiday. In most cases, happen. Nevertheless, I have quote this motion again and it do however continue to improve this day has been held during noted all the points that were states, “That this Honourable it Mr Chairman, and suggestions weekends and even if it were to raised by Honourable Members House requests Government that can actually help to improve like voter trafficking. You can to introduce an automatic and are mostly welcomed. With that, be declared a public holiday, it never fully know a person and does not mean it would reduce computerised voters’ roll in order I thank you Mr Chairman. while we are very much aware to make the voting process easier voter apathy. Various individuals of the proper procedures, we still MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you, have campaigners taking voters and convenient”. This is my have got their own engagements, response, Mr Chairman. Honourable Minister for your like going to the farms and from one place to another place response. I shall now hand over of their own convenience to vote Mr Chairman, the election roll is churches during weekends, so to Kgosi Masunga to sum up on for them, but that is unlawful. computerised in this country and his motion. there will not be any difference This is because they want to data electronically structured even if it were to be a public win their counterparts and the to ensure that only legitimately KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH holiday. only available option is voter registered individuals vote and EAST): I did not quite trafficking. Let us take Christmas holiday that persons so appear at the understand the Honourable for example, it is a time for That was my way of introduction polls to vote are in fact who they Minister’s response. I believe worship in different churches, so that before I respond I touch claim to be. The automation the point that Kgosi was trying but the majority of people do on some of the issues that were also eliminates chances for to drive home was that elections not do that, instead mostly go raised by Honourable Members multiple registrations as one are a competition process. If to their farms. Somehow along which are important too. I of Honourable Members has IEC is still failing to produce the way we derail from the think some of the issues that already said that some people the desired results, then that is whole intention of the day and Honourable Members have can register more than once. where this motion comes in. I divert it to something else. That touched on will be discussed in a Technology to automate this think the automated process that is why I have emphasized on different forum so that they may process was introduced prior the Honourable Minister has the importance of educating be addressed properly. We are all to the 1994 General Elections mentioned might be there and Batswana. entitled to voice out our opinions and continues to be reviewed has to be saved after the whole and such issues as floor crossing, in line with IEC’s capacity process of registration. I have Kgosi Boiditswe has talked Freedom of Information Bill, given the number of polling never seen officers accessing about the primary elections. direct election of the President stations without access to the IT the systems in registration That issue is always flooded by have been mentioned when infrastructure and other financial places though. We have the complaints and they will always implications that will come in actual fact are not part of Water Utilities which has its be there. I want to believe that with equipping them with their this motion. Mr Chairman, own system and can be accessed IEC is continually educating now I would like to respond appropriate technology. I think anytime and anywhere. The Batswana and even the political to the tabled motion because I we have discussed it at length same goes for Botswana Post. parties because dissatisfaction is just wanted to touch on those and that is basically my response. everywhere and we have to accept aforesaid issues before doing so. As the motion suggests that Mr Chairman this is why we are that. Honourable Members we I want to repeat, Mr Chairman there should be computerised of the view that the ballot papers have to appreciate the fact that what the motion says and the voters roll, the answer is that the that are used in polling stations wherever there are two or more way I understand the motion. election roll is computerised and are overtaken by events. 112 113 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Automatic and Computerised Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Voters Roll - Motion Tribunal - Motion To respond on Honourable in the terrain so that you can be our structures of governance. Question put and agreed to. Minister’s questions, I believe we able to educate the public about Thank you Mr Chairman. ESTABLISHMENT remember very well the incident the electoral process. MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you, OF AN ELECTORAL of ballot box that occurred Mr Chairman, I would like to Kgosi Masunga. I can see that TRIBUNAL in 1984 which was revealed thank the Honourable Minister, you did your research thoroughly by the Tshiamo Commission. I have understood him very well Motion The Honourable Minister has and I can even see that you put and I believe Botswana is already KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH responded the way he did but I on IEC badge to really show there. It is only that somehow EAST): Thank you Mr think Batswana need to open up that you came to talk about as the leadership, we are not in Chairman. The tabled motion their eyes because I am of the elections today. I take it that touch with what is going on in the reads, ‘Establishment of an view that they lack education the IEC officer, Mr Maroba is true sense, in the environment. Electoral Tribunal’ “That this to make informative decisions proud of you for speaking well I think Kgosi Machilidza has Honourable House requests because these structures are of their institution. I believe explained that we interact with Government to establish an designed in such a way that there that was Kgosi Masunga’s way the people on a daily basis. Some Electoral Tribunal in order to is no fairness. As I conclude, I of concluding and I will not be of the issues that happen come expedite the elections complaints would like to touch on the issue giving anyone the floor to say to us as first-hand information. and queries arising from election of editorial content. Government anything. We shall follow the Even the Honourable Minister results”. Mr Chairman, by way is the editorial content. I believe Rules of Procedure and conclude interacts with them on frequent of tabling this motion, it does not that the Government media the motion; those who are of the basis, but it is limited because imply that there are no proper institutions might have their opinion... Parliament sessions are normally procedures in place which the own independent editorial longer which means most of his HONOURABLE leadership may use to seek content. It is however not that time is spent here. MASIMOLOLE: May I kindly redress. This motion is seeking independent after all because to have a tribunal in order to say something before closing. they have explained that these We might overlook some of the expedite the elections complaints Government institutions are not issues for now, but the final issue I am not in a way responding and queries arising from election going to be public broadcasters is that the youth who are coming to what Kgosi was saying, results, this institution will be when they design the Botswana behind are demanding these but just to assure Honourable equivalent to Labour Court Communications Regulatory things. That is why Mr Chairman Members, some of the points which is a specialised court. Authority Board (BOCRA). I am I stated that I have heard the that he touched on I responded to them as he shown. Some of So I have tabled this motion not sure as to how it will be run. Honourable Minister and I taking into consideration a Mr Chairman, the Honourable believe they will go and look them I shall present them to the responsible Minister whom I am number of factors and I believe Minister stated that political seriously into this issue. We are some of the Honourable Members funding is an outside issue. I beg not expecting it to be considered standing on behalf. I have noted all those points here. I thank you. are aware of them because they to differ. It cannot be an outside for 2014 because for now 2014 is are in election committees. After issue; voter education depends already here. By 2019, we should MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you sitting in one of the meetings on political funding; you can definitely be seeing that. Come Honourable Minister for that for this committee coupled with only be able to hit the terrain if 2019, if this thing will not be assurance. With that, we have the observation I made after you have enough funds. If you implemented by then, then there concluded on Kgosi Masunga’s elections, I realised that indeed do not, you cannot even make it will be something wrong with motion. this motion could be very handy. 114 115 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion I am one person who strongly about the setting up of the the High Court. I want to touch take corrective measures and believes that the structures Electoral Tribunal. I believe on one of the issues that might also expedite the procedure at a must be at the forefront. For this will be a new concept cause complaints in elections lower cost. Mr Chairman, I think everything to bring forth the altogether. We already know and this has been derived from this will also benefit Government desired results, all the factors about Land Tribunal which I the Tshiamo Commission which in the sense that if we have voter that will contribute towards the believe we are all aware of how I highlighted earlier on. Even education, it will be easier for success of achieving that should it operates. The sole purpose though I have touched on it the tribunal to work hand in be ironed first. Mr Chairman, of tabling this motion as I have already and might not even be hand with IEC to simplify the I would like to start off by already explained is because it related to this, I am of the belief interpretation of various Laws properly laying the foundation has come to my realisation that that there are still some things through a medium of workshops of this motion. Botswana uses an electoral system called First in future it will be costly for that we engage in but breed and other necessary activities that Past the Post System, which I Batswana who would wish to confusion. That is why I believe will drive this. I am not certain will just explain with my little venture into election campaigns. there should be a tribunal. One as to whether Government will interpretation without going It will be costly for Batswana of them is voter trafficking opt to rather have a temporary further into the explanation. in the sense that in the current which I have mentioned earlier tribunal which will be for that Maybe the Honourable Minister set up, whosoever loses in the on. Secondly, some candidates specific period then dissolve will... elections but is not satisfied with still campaign in stations while it after elections. Alternatively the results, if they are to appeal voters are on the lines to vote. there could be a provision under MR CHAIRMAN: May we it at High Court, it will mean This has been prevalent enough the Judiciary to have a permanent kindly suspend the proceedings all the expenses will be covered to cause complaints. I think this independent electoral tribunal as it is time for lunch, we shall by the appellant. Maybe I have is something that the Honourable to deal with issues related to continue from where we left off overlooked a clause in the Law Minister is very much aware of electoral processes. at half past two. which gives the President the and has been exposed to them or There are currently 57 PROCEEDINGS power to delegate a special heard such incident. constituencies in Botswana SUSPENDED FOR LUNCH committee to investigate such Currently, the ballot boxes that which represent us in Parliament, issues. The mandate of the MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI are used are not transparent and and then there are those for the committee will be to arbitrate LOTLAMORENG II): that is a worrisome issue which Local Authorities. I am not sure Honourable Members, in issues where there have been will hinder us from achieving of their number but I hope the Honourable Ministers and the complaints of cheating and what we are aimed at. With these Honourable Minister will be able Officials present good afternoon. unfair running of the elections. reasons, I believe that we should to assist in that. When looking Let me take this opportunity establish an electoral tribunal into this process, one would to once again welcome you to Maybe such committee already court which will be responsible say it is cumbersome. I say this the afternoon session. We shall exists, and if it does, the for hearing any complaint because it becomes complex for a proceed with Kgosi Masunga’s Honourable Minister shall advice related to electoral processes. I Motswana who ran for elections motion; he was still on the floor. accordingly. My interpretation believe whatever issue that will to launch a complaint if they are however is that whosoever be brought before this court of the view that the elections KGOSI MASUNGA: I shall wishes to lodge a complaint would be treated as a matter were unfair. We all know that continue with the motion Mr concerning unfair running of of urgency so that they can be our Government has just created Chairman. I was still talking elections has to take it up with attended as early as possible to a legal fund which is aimed at 116 117 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion assisting the less privileged. conclude by saying that if we KGOSI RAMOKWENA failed to meet the requirements However when you look at establish an electoral tribunal, it (MAUN REGION): Thank made by the land board, they the amount of money spent will assist in solving issues on you Mr Chairman. I stand here have the right to appeal it with appealing, some of the appellants the spot effectively. Secondly, to support this motion with a their Lawyer. However the end up being in a dilemma, not it will empower the structure few reasons that will follow. Lawyer will have to point out sure as to whether they should go of governance and democracy First of all, this court will be to the appellant what they have ahead and appeal or rather keep which we believe needs to specifically for those who done wrong to fail to meet the the little money they have. These develop. Thirdly, I believe that participate in elections to get a requirements expected by the are some of the factors that bring if we have a court of Law or a fair treatment. This will avoid Land board. That is why Mr about confusion in candidates tribunal, it will assist to provide instances whereby IEC takes the Chairman, I believe this motion who campaign for elections interpretations to the ones who whole responsibility of handling is very appropriate. because they pick the unfairness have lodged the complaints. This any query that may arise from This reminds me of one that occur behind the closed might give them hope if they the concerned candidates incident that once occurred, two doors after voting. Some of the were to see transparency being and ensuring that there is fair candidates stood for elections contributing factors include, practiced because if you look at treatment. Even though they and one of them was not happy the officers administering the Laws they are irrelevant as are the ones who conduct the with the results. Rumours have the elections. These are fully long as the people do not have whole electoral process, it will it that the other candidate was fledged public officers, who the belief in the Laws. I think appear like they are denying given an upper hand than the receive a full instruction from the current process is hindering that concerned appellant to get other but did not deserve it, Government. These issues tend those who have spent a lot in fair hearing. Therefore a court just because the candidate was to raise some concerns in other campaigning for the elections. such as this one which will be associated with some certain people because there might be Kgosi Machilidza has pointed called tribunal will allow for party. This was an indication some kind of influence in terms out that the candidates spend that fairness. This court will that there was some unfairness of decision making should there from their own pockets to finance have Laws that govern it and in the whole thing. The electoral be any queries that might arise. democracy because it is their will guide whosoever wishes to tribunal will therefore help in These are some of the first hand own personal money and all the launch an appeal. Appellants will issues like these. Mr Chairman, not have to go through extra costs information that I have received expenses are covered by them. when we talk about the right to in one of the meetings that I have of engaging Lawyers because This ends up straining them vote, it involves voting for the sat in. They were raised by some they will have something to fall financially. Mr Chairman, I will Constitution that will run this of the candidates that have stood back on. Secondly, this Court country, something capable of stop here to allow Honourable for elections and wish to contest will operate in the same direction causing war. In other countries, Members to support this motion. again. After scrutinizing all that as the Land tribunal because the killing each other is not an issue information, I came to realise I thank you. one for Land board adjudicates because if justice has not been that some candidates may be MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you for instances where there are served, those who deserve it do disadvantaged if at all the Public Kgosi. Honourable members complaints. If it happens that the not have the patience to establish servants are the ones manning we have been listening to Kgosi complainant is not happy with the root cause of the injustice. the polling stations. Masunga’s motion, the floor the judgement passed by the land They rather opt for a short cut Mr Chairman, I am not going is open if there is anyone who board but on the other hand the which will work best for them to be long on this motion. I will wishes to speak. appellant may somehow have which is killing. If one person 118 119 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion decided to do that, the rest such a way that it will be more Chairman, we are always talking we have already seen that the follow because they know there appealing. The mover of the about the economic down turn land boards do not incur a lot of can never be a solution to their motion proposed that perhaps we but it does not mean it will keep costs as the mover of the motion complaints, so the best solution could have a temporary tribunal problems from arising; we do has already indicated. This has for them is to take Law into their which will specifically be for the encounter them even during the been practical for them because own hands. So when we talk elections at that period and then elections. Democracy is nurtured we are dealing with issues of of rights, we mean satisfying dissolve it after the elections. I and it is through our Constitution land which belongs to us and the everyone. There should be no am of the opinion that it should that our democracy is on the right same goes for our democracy. discrimination of any kind at rather be permanent for the sake track. No one here can dispute Honourable Members, I do not all. We are all equal, regardless of convenience because a lot of the fact that when we started wish to take long on this motion, of race, background and party things happen during elections the elections, majority of people but there is one country where the affiliation. and even after elections. Some were not aware of some of the Constitution allows for a Political Now we are talking about a candidates who have won the things that happened behind party to be disqualified if it is in sensitive issue that is capable elections may die after elections closed doors, they were only debt. The country wanted this of causing riots. It can also be and if the electoral tribunal is revealed when the issue ended Political party to be disqualified there, it can always be easy to deal because of that and it was beneficial at the same time when up in court. Any candidate who with any issue that may arise in difficult, they went from pillar it comes to benchmarking from wishes to stand for elections can other countries which participate re- elections. It should therefore to post dragging the issue at the be permanent because even the always have their party President courts. We should make it a point in observing of elections in this or Member of Parliament sign country. These countries that High Court is permanent. that we correct any anomaly that for them, but when issues arise, maybe identified. Mr Chairman, will come for benchmarking will We started at a time when those candidates find themselves learn how democracy is practiced everything was very difficult, I am of the view that this motion alone without any support. should be adopted as it is without and serving justice to all, not just even the Laws made it hard Everyone will agree that some for others to progress. This any amendment just to see if saying something and doing the people are disadvantaged. it will work for us because we opposite of it. Even in the bible, is something we should be There is too much inequality in cognisant of and therefore are a product of democracy. Let God says some are just listeners political parties. There are those us not fear the unknown. Mr should come up with strategies of the word rather than doers. that struggle financially and Chairman, with those words I that will ease up the processes. This motion has properly been those that are stable .The stable support the motion because there We should not be stagnant; introduced by its mover and with ones have an upper hand when is a lot that is swept under the we should rather be like the all these reasons, I support it. I it comes to decision making, carpet simply because people are Japanese who improvise a new they have the power to negate scared of losing their property thank you Mr Chairman. model after another and those or agree to this motion. It will once they lose their appeal .They KGOSI MACHILIDZA who are still behind do not catch only be agreed to by those that only consider appeals that will (BOTETI REGION): Thank up with them. Anybody who may are disadvantaged because the you Mr Chairman. I support this go against this motion will be the at the end of the day hold back situation has been unbearable for the candidate from standing for motion. Honourable Members, one who does not understand them. we have been a shining the concept of democracy but the next elections because of a democracy and with this motion we shall take into account those So there should be no problem in pending court case. I thank you we are trying to work it out in who are still up coming. Mr agreeing to this motion because Mr Chairman. 120 121 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion KGOSI BOIDITSWE that has been in place whereby me that I am wrong. Basically elections are that of wearing a (SEROWE REGION): Thank whosoever wishes to launch a the complaints that we receive party colour to the polling station you Mr Chairman. I have some complaint, firstly weighs the after elections are not so much and these are issues that are reservations on this motion, worthiness of their complaint that they require an opening of normally cleared by the retaining unless someone convinces me lest they embarrass themselves at an electoral tribunal, but if I am officers. That is why I have a bit otherwise then I will be able to High Court was best for us. Now wrong, I stand to be corrected. of a problem with supporting this support this motion. Normally with electoral tribunal, everyone If it happens that this tribunal is motion. Even in the just recent ever established, we should go before the elections commence, will launch a complaint even elections, I do not remember any and make an observation... there are ready structures put in when their complaints carry no issue that arose in connection to place to cater for any issue or weight at all. This will probably KGOSI MACHILIDZA: I am unfairness of the elections, but complaint that may arise to guide occur in instances where the not disturbing Kgosi Boiditswe if I am not right, I stand to be the complainant on how best to margin is very thin. This is why but I wanted to ask Kgosi if he is corrected. With those reasons Mr take it up. Now if we are to set up I fail to support this motion even implying that he has never seen Chairman, I do not support this or heard candidates engaging an electoral tribunal, there will though we were proposing the motion. I thank you. Lawyers to intervene in their forever be massive complaints computerised voters roll with the cases where unfairness has KGOSI SEEMEKO which will disturb the smooth view that it will iron out a few occurred and what may have (SPECIALLY ELECTED): ending of the whole electoral anomalies that have been there. caused that. Thank you Mr Chairman. I really process because every candidate Maybe we should observe the wanted to say something Mr KGOSI BOIDITSWE: The that stand up for elections never proposed computerised voters Chairman but I was cognisant of example that the Honourable want to accept defeat. They roll on how helpful it will be. I time and some other Honourable Member has cited is the one that always feel there has been a am afraid if we take both of them Members have advised me to involved party members because foul play. For example, even at a go and implement, we might request that we stop here in I do not remember an instance when there is pure evidence end up being surrounded by regard to this motion because we where political parties engaged to bring down a criminal, they problems. believe in productivity. We have an external advocate to intervene will always give another side of talked at length on this motion; From my observation, I do not in issues of foul play. Those that the story. I foresee a situation nevertheless I would like to point think that there have been more I know of are the ones involving whereby candidates who have out that I support this motion. I complaints after elections. We Councillors and Members of lost refuse to accept defeat even do not want to believe we will sometimes hear some candidates Parliament and they ended up when their appeal does not hold be opening a can of worms complaining that they have in High Court. At the same water. Their cases will have to instead all that we are trying to been cheated but when they go time, the electoral commission be taken to the electoral tribunal say is that we should have an to High Court, in most cases station officer places retaining because they do not incur any institution where people will be they never win the case. Ever officers to every polling station costs in the whole process. free to voice out their queries since my exposure to electoral to observe how the elections are Now I am afraid that once we without having to spend a lot of processes, I have never come conducted so that if there is any open such a forum, politicians money. Mr Chairman will agree across such complaints, but unfairness that might occur, then will abuse it and instead of with me that it is not all of them issues that I normally hear of are it is handled on the spot. getting the results for the those between party members, who can afford to appeal at the elections, it will be endless not after elections. Unless Some of the queries that High Court because even if the complaints. I think the system someone can stand up and tell sometimes arise during the complainant has a strong case 122 123 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion they end up being limited by enlightenment. I am not sure if launching a complaint at the from each other, but at the end insufficient funds. Therefore what I am about to say will be High Court. Another Honourable of the day there should be fair Mr Chairman, I do not find derailing, nevertheless, I shall Member has said that some elections for all. We should any wrong in establishing such say it out because it has to do appellants end up losing the case. all be proud of our electoral institution to intervene in issues with political issues and I believe This can build a strong case as to systems and beef it up if need be like that. it will be beneficial. The time has why Electoral Tribunal should so that there is no room for any Mr Chairman, if we are to take come for us to educate the nation be there so that fairness and suspicions of foul play. I thank an example of a Councilor from about voting instead of focusing neutrality prevails. you Mr Chairman. on campaigning and promising a region like Ngarange, if they Mr Chairman, it is imperative KGOSI LEMPADI the community things that we happen to be in a situation like to educate the community about (OKAVANGO REGION): cannot do. What the mover that, the first thing that comes the concept of democracy so Thank you Mr Chairman. I do of the motion was advocating to their mind will be the cost of that they become well aware not think it will be right for this for is mainly to educate the transport to go to High Court. of their rights to freedom. The Honourable House to deny the nation about the principles of That is why the previous speaker Government also needs to make nation their right to appeal if they democracy and their rights. stated that sometimes there is an introspection to evaluate have complaints. Right now we Even the Independent Electoral usually no progress even when how it has been winning the are talking poverty eradication Commission (IEC) puts an effort a complainant appeals at the elections and the responsibility and there is no way we can afford to educate the nation on voting. High Court. We are therefore of governing that comes with not to eliminate a contributing When it comes to knowledge on saying this will cater for those it. Also to evaluate the electoral factor to poverty. We do have why a citizen should vote and who cannot afford to go to High process to see if there are no to quote past incidents that their rights to voting, it is lagging Court which is only in Lobatse loop holes that need to be dealt ended up in court where the behind because majority of the and Francistown if I am not with. Initiatives that involve minority lost the case. I am just community is not aware of that. wrong. Mr Chairman, with those electoral process like Electoral wondering if the Honourable Regarding the issue of Electoral words I am of the view that the Tribunal will give everybody Member is of the opinion that Tribunal, the most crucial thing Honourable Minister should peace of mind once they win there are no cases that ended here is the rights of Batswana. just adopt this motion as it is for elections to be rest assured that up in court. This issue is very Batswana are entitled to Electoral consideration. We are very much they did not win through warped important Honourable Members. Tribunal and even though it can aware of the factors that might ways. These electoral processes Even in our Customary Courts, be an inconvenience at times but cause a delay in adopting it, but should be empowered so that our there is a provision in the Law at least it evens out things so that it should be on the pipeline so democracy can grow because we that gives the appellants the right there is fairness for all. Some that when all dust settles down, took independence not so long to appeal. That is democracy of the Honourable Members it will be considered too. I thank ago in 1966. because our verdicts are not final have highlighted that this issue and as presiding officers, we are you Mr Chairman. will raise too many unnecessary While opportunity still allows, supposed to advise them that KGOSI MOETI II complaints. This on the other we should establish this tribunal they are entitled to appeal should (SPECIALLY ELECTED): hand can be an indication that and make use of it so that at the they feel dissatisfied with the Thank you Mr Chairman. I will people have been bottling up end of it all we do not put the judgment. be as brief as I can. I would like things because they were scared blame on each other. We get an This will in a way eliminate to thank Kgosi Boiditswe for the of the costs they may incur upon opportunity to grow by learning issues of complaints that are 124 125 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion usually raised by those who of culture. Whatever that may The delay was caused by the fact employment of officers who will stood for the elections and could seem to be left behind, it is our that it was at High Court, had be in charge of that office and they not afford to launch a case at responsibility to be vigilant and it been at electoral tribunal, it will be on Government pay roll. the High Court. Therefore there notify Government. Even though would have not taken too long. This means officers will be active should be a court that will be it may seem like we do not have It would be upon those who wish during the time of elections only afforded by all. There is really much launched complaints in to take the case further to High and after that they become idle no problem with that because connection to elections, I am still Court to do that. I am of the unless there happens to be by- we already have Land Tribunal of the opinion that this motion opinion that the electoral tribunal elections during these five years. which tackles issues of land; came at the right time. This in should be the starting point On the other hand, they will be otherwise if we did not have a way will cater for the future. before going up the ladder to the paid by Government when they such institution then we would We are not saying this should be High Court. are not doing anything. So Mr have no platform to launch the implemented right away but it is Chairman, I will share the same The same practice is done at complaints. Moreover, the Land a gesture to show Government sentiments with Kgosi Boiditswe Land Board; it all starts with Tribunal normally refers such that we are still efficient. I do not and not support this motion. I wish to talk long, the bottom line the Land Tribunal without any cases back to Bogosi for final thank you. is I support the motion. I thank costs incurred and then at the settlement. Therefore this you Mr Chairman. High Court that is where all costs MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you one will not in any way open a for Lawyers and all that will be Kgosi Kgari. I do not see any can of worms; it would rather KGOSI POTSOENG (NGAMI covered by the appellant. So hand and I believe Kgosi Kgari open a platform for freedom to REGION): Thank you Mr Mr Chairman this is a straight was the last one to comment. I express any displeasure. This is Chairman. I support this motion forward motion which I support. shall now give the Honourable a very good motion and as Kgosi too. I think the mover of the Minister the floor to respond to Ramokwena has said, it should motion is proposing that there KGOSI KGARI II Kgosi Masunga’s motion. be blessed. should be an electoral tribunal (BAKWENA): Mr Chairman, I am a bit reluctant to support KGOSI MONNAATHEBE court and he is not implying that ASSISTANT MINISTER OF this motion looking at the fact (THAMAGA): Thank you Mr this court should be higher than EDUCATION AND SKILLS that elections come once every Chairman. I stand here to support the High Court. If the appellant DEVELOPMENT (HON five years unless there are by- this motion too. This motion is has launched a complaint and MASIMOLOLE): Thank you elections. Even the complaints straight forward and understood still feels justice has not been Mr Chairman. Good afternoon that are normally launched after by all and we share the same served fairly, then that is when once again Honourable the elections are very few because sentiments, therefore I do not they can approach the High Members. I would like to firstly people would still be emotional really see the need to keep on Court. One Honourable Member touch on the points that were about their loss. Eventually the repeating the same thing about it. earlier on said he has never heard mentioned by the mover of the of a case connected to elections complainants come to terms Just to cite an example, we know motion Kgosi Masunga. He cited and I do not know if Honourable with the fact that they were not that we did not initially have the an example of the Industrial Members has not heard of cheated but have lost. army, but as time passed, we the Tshiamo Commission. Court, that every institution saw it fit that our country should Furthermore, some of us know For Government to establish has its own court of its kind, have an army in our country. about the case of the Ngami an electoral tribunal will be therefore even issues of election Now our Government depends councilor and how it dragged for a creation of an extra cost need to have one. The mover on us as Bogosi to be custodians a long time. especially that it will require of the motion also mentioned 126 127 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of an Electoral Tribunal - Motion Tribunal - Motion the system of first past the post, it can assist in solving issues like buyers will not be able to buy to this economic downturn, but he did not go into details as these. Kgosi also mentioned that and therefore there will not be Government decided that it to what other systems could be our constituencies are not many, any profit coming. If we are to will not be possible to establish used instead of the existing one. there are only 57 of them and he depend on tax returns, Batswana an electoral tribunal. Instead, I would like to point out that this also wanted me to confirm the complain of high charges and in 2008 it was agreed that the system so far has been beneficial number of Councillors the whole this is our third profit making Electoral Act should be amended to us because it is constituency country; there are 490 of them. to reduce the time taken to resolve strategy. The fourth one is based. If we were to compare this There are 2 288 polling stations. any matter related to elections. system to the other systems like The mover of the motion has tourism which does not inject a Initially the expectation was to the Proportional representation, stated that there will always be lot of money. I am saying this have the case resolved in 120 ours will be much better in the complaints in different scenarios. because these are the entities that days, and then it was reduced sense that candidates are much A lot of Honourable Members help in injecting money into this to 90 days, so precisely a case closer to their constituents unlike have supported this motion country’s economy and nothing should take three months to be Proportional representation except maybe two of them who has been coming in for the past finalised at the High Court. After where Political parties just do not support it and those who years. the 2009 elections, there was a submit the names of candidates have supported it have shared the Some people normally say that huge improvement because all that will represent constituencies same sentiments that everyone is funds from the World Bank the cases that were launched at who never get to interact with entitled to appeal. should be used to develop some the High Court were finalised their constituents. before the three months elapsed. I will now like to respond to of the projects. Honourable This is a sign that we are moving the tabled motion. I would Members, when we talk about Let me further highlight that there like to point out that after funds from the World Bank, forward just like the mover of the is another type of proportional the 2004 elections, there was we are not talking about a huge motion has stated. representation called high breed. amount of money. Some of it a recommendation that was Where there are loop holes In Southern Africa, it is practiced is in the form of property, so brought before Government that with the Electoral Act we shall by Lesotho. They practice the when we refering to it, we are an electoral tribunal should be continue to relentlessly amend constituency based system and also including those buildings. established. Firstly I would like it. I would like to point out that the hybrid system. The hybrid When we borrow money from point out that our country was it will not be possible for us to system is measured according to International Monetary Fund affected by recession because establish an Electoral Tribunal the performance of the Political (IMF) and World Bank, these even when we talk of Foot due to the economic down turn party or constituencies against are the properties that we use and mouth disease outbreak, that we are going through. I the number of seats allocated to it as security so that we can European countries tend not to thank you Mr Chairman. which will be added to the seats finish some of the projects in buy meat from us because of they have been voted in. Kgosi our country. We import goods MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI has also talked about the issue of the perception that the whole from other countries like food, LOTLAMORENG II): Thank voter trafficking and also that of country has been affected. When Antiretroviral (ARVs), petrol, you Honourable Minister. I want candidates who campaign at the we talk about diamonds, when diesel and electricity and that to believe that we have heard queues while voters wait to go in countries like Japan are stricken is the money that is used, and understood the Honourable to vote. Maybe there is a need to by natural disasters like tsunami, which means we end up being Minister’s response. I shall now establish such institution so that it also affects us because it means left with almost nothing. Due give the floor to the mover of 128 129 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion the motion Kgosi Masunga to ESTABLISHMENT OF giving an explanation of family. MR CHAIRMAN: May you conclude his motion. A FAMILY AFFAIRS Traditionally, family is when a kindly hold it right there Kgosi KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank MINISTRY man and a woman live together Masunga, I think Kgosi Seemeko you Mr Chairman. I think with their children and taking the wants to say something. Motion responsibility of nurturing those Honourable Minister has done KGOSI SEEMEKO: Thank KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH children together guided by justice to this motion and he you, Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman, EAST): Thank you Mr certain principles of life. These has highlighted that the main according to Section 13 of the Chairman. I do not know if I principles are a guide to the type obstacle that will hinder us from Powers and Privileges of this should continue with this motion of upbringing the children will establishing it is recession. The House, may I kindly request the because I feel exhausted, I do be raised in. That is why most of most important thing is that we mover of the motion to defer it not know if the Honourable the times if children misbehave, have learnt something from what because we are really exhausted Minister will be able to come people raise an eye brow as to he has just said. It should not and we would like to have our tomorrow. Mr Chairman, I who raised them. I think we take long though to establish that input when we are fresh. tribunal because it is imperative table this motion before the are all aware of that. When KGOSI MASUNGA: Mr to build the structures of Honourable House which growing up, we knew that a child Chairman, a request has been democracy because in that way reads, “That this Honourable belongs to the community. Again made but I can see that you are we have a guaranteed future. House requests Government to children were assigned different a bit hesitant. I want to believe Today things may be well but consider establishing a ministry roles which they played in their that the mover of this request has we do not know what tomorrow responsible for family affairs to communities or families like a valid reason as to why he has holds for us because in the same specifically address policy issues looking after cattle. These roles proposed this, now with all due manner every man prepares for that promote family life.” Mr helped to mould a child. Men respect it means if we continue the rainy days in sunny days Chairman, I believe this motion who have looked after livestock with it, we are going to adjourn because he never knows what has come at the right time. I am are more matured when it comes this Honourable House with a tomorrow holds. Therefore if we very much aware that a Ministry to responsibility and even the pending matter on the floor. Even have Laws in place, they ensure is established by His Excellency, way they converse. Mr Chairman for me, the exhaustion has taken that there is little or limited the President and it is not an easy the reason why I have tabled this decision to make. Furthermore, motion is because the economic its toll on me because after going derailment. Mr Chairman, all that to the bathrooms, I forgot all the a lot is taken into consideration conditions we live in have I can say is to thank Honourable words that I wanted to say and Members for their immeasurable before doing that and as Kgosi revealed that if we do not prepare to build up the structures that will could not even remember where support on this motion. I thank Kgari has already stated, there I put my files. So I will gladly is the issue of cost that has to be in future shape a better Botswana; you. we will lose our roots. There has accept Kgosi Seemeko’s motion considered too. because it will really work for us. MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI been an intrusion of globalisation I am looking at the benefits of I thank you. LOTLAMORENG II): Thank which has been brought about the establishment of this ministry you Kgosi Masunga. Honourable by the across border culture, MR CHAIRMAN: The main and, they will surpass the costs Members we shall conclude that is to say the international challenge here is that you that will be incurred to establish culture, which continues to grow Kgosi Masunga’s motion had already started with your it or the reasons that may hinder based on the development of the according to Rules of procedure. motion, we shall continue with it its establishment. Mr Chairman, countries, economy, migration tomorrow if we do not manage to Question put and agreed to. I would like to start off by and technology. finish it today. So can you kindly 130 131 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion finish what you wanted to finish Then there is another emerging family unit and I believe most of culture, the funding, the Kgosi Masunga? trend called individualism, which of the conditions that affect intangible and tangible culture. is another type of institution Batswana at a family level are We have seen dithubaruba KGOSI MASUNGA: Yes Mr which is emerging. I am not sure not documented. festival growing in Molepolole Chairman. If you put it that way, I if I should be referring to it as and also Domboshaba and even think I have to continue. As I was Nowadays we are talking about an institution for now but it has the Batswapong initiated an saying Mr Chairman, there has poverty eradication. How do we been a problem of globalisation already developed its own traits take programmes like Ipelegeng event that is culture oriented. The which is an international culture. and characteristics which have a to the community because these same has been done by Batlokwa In Botswana we do not have the huge role in defining our family are programmes that should be and Barolong. gatekeepers and regulators of our structures. encompassed under one roof So many people have now cultural processes and standards The President saw it fit to policy which will fall under one developed interest because which show what we want to establish a Ministry of Youth, Ministry? Even if they were to policies and structures can define preserve and what could work Sport and Culture. Ever since the fall under various Ministries, but the standards. My desire is to see best for us. existence of this Ministry, there still the foundation of building the family unit standardised and was a tremendous improvement. a person’s life will be the pillar It has come to my realisation also Government coming up with We got the first qualification for the shaping of humanity in that there is a challenge when a research on the family unit and to the African Nation’s Cup this country. Mr Chairman, I it comes nurturing of children. why people are migrating in huge (AFCON), the first medal from would like to now talk about There is a challenge of rights numbers. Are the occurrences the Olympics and now we have the imbalances in the economy. and privileges, however before which are happening here like the national arts and culture on Currently we can see the gap I do that, I forgot to explain that the rural urban migration which the cards. Going back to the issue between the rich and the poor. there has been an evolution of we currently experiencing here of the family, we need a policy in There has been a huge disparity family. There is a new addition in Gaborone documented so that Botswana that will specifically be because when it comes to family of the type of family called the they can somehow be developed for a family. If there is a Ministry, setup and parenthood, it is not single parent family; there was and used as indicators? I believe it will align all issues concerning possible to maintain the whole also the nuclear family which if the family unit could be given the family in Botswana in terms family alone. We are therefore emanated from the extended the policy framework under a of the Policy, structures and saying there should be a national family. The Extended family unit Ministry then some factors could the national forum where the dialogue which will operate like is the one that has existed from be taken into consideration. dialogue shall be conducted. the one we normally engage way back and it consisted of the Firstly there is work versus These days, if individuals need in when it comes to issues of grandparents, cousins, uncles and the issue of raising children. information on family, there is culture. I say this because they aunts. These changes that I have Secondly, the gender issues in no proper place to get it. It is are there to regulate the manning already mentioned brought about Botswana are more concerned difficult to obtain it. If one is of the intangible and cultural a new type of family called the about the empowerment of Nuclear family; it consists of the to search for it in libraries or heritage. I believe the last women than men. No one father, mother and their children. Government departments like the workshop that was held was in recognizes the dangers of Then there is the single parent Department of Social Services, August or beginning of October family unit and it is a family you will find that there is actually and it was documented. It came empowering the girl child while unit which is a stand alone and nothing. In other words, there is up with the policy framework on the other hand the boy child is is guided by its own principles. a haphazard management of the which will guide the benefits left behind. These are some of the 132 133 Thursday 1st November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Affairs Ministry - Motion unknown things because there is Korea, United Arab Emirates to give an example, currently we remind you that when the siren no framework that monitors how and the way they build their do not have the working class rings, you should hurry to your things are implemented. families, their culture and women who are able to take seats so that you do not disrupt how they cultivate these as care of their children properly. the procession. Some of you are Currently there is a huge gap in When we look at the current developing countries. Most of it not fast enough to make it to families because some… welfare state, Government can be attributed to the fact that the House before the procession has assumed the role of they took time to build family MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi passes. Let me welcome you taking the provisions and alongside their culture. Currently Masunga may I kindly request once again to this House. We basic services to the people. China is the second largest that we stop here for today on shall start today’s business with However the most crucial economy in the world. According this motion, we shall continue questions as usual. question in terms of building to predictions, China in the next with it tomorrow. With that we capacity is who is responsible ten years will be controlling the have come to the end of today’s QUESTIONS FOR for taking these programmes like world as the first world country business. We shall meet tomorrow ORAL ANSWER back yard gardening from the to have the most powerful at 9:30 a.m. Honourable Minister UPDATE ON CURRENT Government to the community? economy. They managed to do we appreciate your presence. STATUS OF KANYE RURAL Currently there are programmes that through managing of family INDUSTRIES INNOVATION like Livestock Management structure and culture because ADJOURNMENT CENTRE and Infrastructure Development those two elements are at the The House accordingly KGOSI MALOPE II (LIMID) and Integrated centre of everything. adjourned at 3:56 p.m. until (BANGWAKETSE): To ask Support Programme for Arable When you look at the behaviours nd Friday 2 November 2012 at the Minister of Infrastructure, Agricultural Development and moralities of our parents, you 9:30 a.m. Science and Technology to (ISPAAD). However the will admire their level of humility, Friday 2nd November, 2012 explain:- question is, to what extent did we self-respect and principles. do our assignment in establishing However when it comes to the THE HOUSE met at 09:25 (i) the current status of Kanye if they are the right programmes young people, there is a huge a.m. Rural Industries Innovation tailored for Batswana? These gap. The extended family system Centre; (CHAIRMAN in the Chair) might be issues that arose just to is slowly dying out and so who (ii) whether it is being meet the needs that were brought is now going to assume the role P R A Y E R S liquidated and relocated about by economic challenges of in childcare development and all from Kanye; and that time. If they are in a policy that has to do with the family. * * * * framework though, they have the In Botswana we are faced with CHAIRMAN’S (iii) if that is the case, how power to influence even future a challenge of labour provisions OPENING REMARKS does his Ministry intend to trends in terms of how families which are not compatible with dispose of its assets in the village. are nurtured, the challenges they the living standards of Batswana. MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI have and their implications. It The Government has tried to PUSO GABORONE): Good MINISTER OF also involves the role played by fill the gaps that exist so that morning Honourable Members INFRASTRUCTURE, Batswana altogether. Consider the employees can be able to and Ministers. Welcome to SCIENCE AND the Asian countries today, for take care of their families while the last day of our meeting. TECHNOLOGY (HON instance China, Japan, Malaysia, working at the same time. Just Honourable Members, let me SWARTZ): Mr Chairman, 134 135 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

(i) Rural Industries Innovation Enterprise Authority HONOURABLE SWARTZ: organisation. So, I do not believe Centre (RICC) is part of (LEA) as well as Public Mr Chairman, I think it is that this could be affected by the Rural Industries Promotion Enterprises Evaluation premature to respond to that economic downturn. Company-Botswana and Privatization Agency question now as we are still KGOSI MALOPE II: Mr (RIPCO-B) that is in the (PEEPA) in order to come consulting on the way forward. Chairman, when I said assets, process of being merged to an agreement on these It may be one of the options for my focus was not only on the with Botswana Technology issues. Thank you Mr consideration. building RIIC occupies. For Chairman. example, they have a plot at Centre (BOTEC). The two KGOSI TELEKELO: Goora-Montshiwa ward. companies will ultimately KGOSI SEELETSO: Supplementary question, Mr be liquidated and a new Supplementary, Mr Chairman. Chairman. Will the Minister MR CHAIRMAN: Could you company created. After the merger, will the new assure this House that the ask a supplementary question company still be based in Kanye consultations will not be so Kgosi (ii) As part of Rural Industries or relocate? Thank you Mr lengthy such that the RIIC Promotion Company Chairman. offices will get dilapidated while KGOSI MALOPE II: I was (Botswana), Rural they are still consulting? trying to ask a question. Industries Innovation HONOURABLE SWARTZ: Centre will be liquidated. Mr Chairman, BOTEC and HONOURABLE SWARTZ: MR CHAIRMAN: Ask the It is not being relocated to RIPCO have assets not only in Mr Chairman, while the question consultations are ongoing, we do any place. It will cease to Kanye but countrywide. RIPCO KGOSI MALOPE II: Since not intend to close down BOTEC exist after liquidation. The has assets in Gaborone Head half of this plot which belongs to and RIPCO. They will continue entities had to merge since office, Mahalapye and Maun RIIC has been given to the Statue operating until the decision has they performed similar offices. BOTEC also has offices committee, is it not possible to been made. duties. in various areas. We are not give Bangwaketse the whole certain if the new company will KGOSI MACHILIDZA: I plot? (iii) It has not been decided find it necessary to continue have one question Mr Chairman. HONOURABLE SWARTZ: yet, as to how the assets of having offices in Kanye, Mr The Minister has mentioned that Mr Chairman, as I have already Rural Industries Innovation Chairman. there is a possibility of erecting Centre at Kanye will said, RIIC has assets all over, not new offices once the merger is only in Kanye. So, we will know be disposed of pending KGOSI RAMOKONE: Thank complete. With this economic what happens to all these assets further consultation within you Mr Chairman. Honourable downturn, would it be ideal to after a final decision has been Government and interested Minister, what will happen to move from the current building made. That is the only response parties to look at options the assets in Kanye should they and start a new project? I can give for now Mr Chairman. for continuing the services decided to relocate? Would provided by RIIC. We the Government assist Kanye HONOURABLE SWARTZ: KGOSI MALOPE II: Thank are still consulting with residents who still want to use the Due to this economic downturn, you Mr Chairman. other stakeholders such assets? Will they be assisted to we are trying to streamline some as Citizen Entrepreneurial continue running projects which of these things. We will merge WATER SUPPLY FROM Development Agency were run by RIPCO in Kanye? two entities which have similar LAGOONS OF XAKANAKA (CEDA), Local Thank you Mr Chairman. duties so that they form one AND GUMA 136 137 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer

KGOSI MMUALEFHE Question- deferred Boatlaname or Sojwe KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH (CHOBE DISTRICT): To ask villages would not be a EAST DISTRICT): To ask the GUIDANCE FOR WATER the Minister of Minerals Energy cheaper option; and Minister of Education and Skills and Water Resources whether he UTILITIES NEW STAFF Development to explain:- (iii) what measures will he put will consider supplying domestic KGOSI NDZONGA in place to address water (i) what the Ministry intends to water to the villages of Maun, (TUTUME REGION): To ask shortage in Shadishadi do to find a solution to the Boteti and surrounding areas as the Minister of Minerals Energy village. problem of accommodation well as the Kweneng District and Water Resources if he will sharing by teachers; through water reticulation system Question- deferred consider engaging temporary from the lagoons of Xakanaxa (ii) when teachers will be craftsmen (pipe fitters from PROVIDING WATER TO and Guma. considered for a housing council) in villages to guide THE SITE ALLOCATED subsidy like Botswana newly employed staff of Water TO BOTSWANA HOUSING MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Police and Botswana Utilities Corporation who seem CORPORATION Kgosi Mmualefhe. There is no Defence Force; and one representing Ministry of not to be familiar with the KGOSI GAREBAKWENA Minerals, Energy and Water waterlines in the villages when it (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): (iii) what welfare benefits do Resources and we therefore comes to maintenance of leaking To ask the Minister of Minerals teachers enjoy by virtue of pipes. defer this question to a later date. Energy and Water Resources belonging to the essential services. Question- deferred KGOSI NDZONGA: Thank if he will consider providing you Mr Chairman, I will defer water to the site allocated to ASSISTANT MINISTER OF WATER SUBSIDY FOR the question as the Minister is Botswana Housing Corporation EDUCATION AND SKILLS POVERTY ERADICATION not in. by Kweneng District Council in DEVELOPMENT (HON BENEFICIARIES Question- deferred order for BHC to proceed with MASIMOLOLE): Thank KGOSI MOSEKI (GHANZI building of residential houses to you Mr Chairman and good WATER SHORTAGE IN EAST REGION): To ask the alleviate current accommodation morning Honourable Members. SHADISHADI Mr Chairman, my Ministry Minister of Minerals Energy and shortage in the village KGOSI GAREBAKWENA is currently in the process of Water Resources whether he will particularly for public officers. consider subsidising water tariffs (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): procuring houses from Botswana for people under the poverty To ask the Minister of Minerals MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you Housing Corporation (BHC) in alleviation program who own Energy and Water Resources to Kgosi, question five remains different regions of the country. sate:- The purchase of the houses backyard gardens as they end deferred as the Minister is not in will alleviate, to a great extent, up failing to pay their water bills (i) the cost of providing water to respond to the question. Thank the current accommodation resulting in disconnections. to Shadishadi village you, Kgosi. problems experienced by through bowsers since MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi teachers in those areas. As soon October 2011 to date; Question- deferred Moseki, there is no one as the houses are availed, they representing the Ministry of (ii) whether drilling a new CHALLENGES FOR will be allocated to teachers who Minerals, Energy and Water borehole and connecting TEACHERS SHARING will in turn pay a subsidized Resources. Shadishadi village to ACCOMODATION rent. Government, through 138 139 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer the Ministry of Lands and rent out or buy from them? essential service employee’s job KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank Housing, is also in the process Thank you Mr Chairman. description does not allow them you Mr Chairman, I hope to just abandon their work as this what the Minister has said of coming up with modalities HONOURABLE will affect other people’s rights. is in line with the provisions of leasing privately owned MASIMOLOLE: Mr A student has a right to education of the International Labour houses which will be rented Chairman, construction is far Mr Chairman. If teachers Organization (ILO) standards. out to public officers including more expensive than buying a abandon them and go on strike, teachers at subsidized amounts. house from BHC. We therefore UNUTILISED MARUJE then the students are being denied Mr. Chairman, with regards to decided to buy houses from JUNIOR SECONDARY that right to education. The same BHC for now. Thank you Mr SCHOOL BOARDING benefits enjoyed by teachers applies to a doctor who goes on Chairman. FACILITIES as essential services workers; strike leaving patients; they are nothing has been pronounced yet KGOSI MASUNGA: Mr denying those patients the right KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH by the employer. Thank you Mr Chairman, since teachers have to live. That is why we had to list EAST DISTRICT): To ask the Chairman. been declared essential service some of the professions under Minister of Education and Skills employees, what are the benefits. Development:- KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank essential service. Let us take When are they going to enjoy you Mr Chairman. This subsidy another example, say pilots also those benefits since consultations (i) why Maruje Junior we are talking about, does it go go on strike while flying and are on-going? Of late, teachers Secondary School boarding into an individual’s pay? Thank the aeroplanes crash, would we continue working during school facilities are not utilized to you say it is their right? We have to holidays, those who want to take protect passengers as well, Mr this date; HONOURABLE a break have to apply for leave. Chairman. Therefore being listed (ii) how much has been spent MASIMOLOLE: Mr Chairman, Honourable Minister, is this under essential service cadre by the community and subsidy works in two ways: one arrangement not a disadvantage does not qualify one to earn more donors to see this project can either be given the money to them in terms of losing benefits than other employees, through; and to pay for themselves or the their leave days during school Mr Chairman. With regards to employer may pay directly to the vacations? They could benefit by teachers Mr Chairman, Kgosi (iii) what is causing the delay lessor and then the teachers will being paid for their leave days mentioned that their leave days in implementing the pay the outstanding balance. We when they retire. Thank you. are being deducted during school community’s plans for the project. are yet to consult with teachers to HONOURABLE holidays. Mr Chairman, currently find out which method best suits MASIMOLOLE: Mr Chairman, teachers are governed by the new ASSISTANT MINISTER them. to address the issue of rights, we Public Service Act which clearly OF EDUCATION AND KGOSI POTSOENG: Thank need to understand that all have stipulates that every public SKILLS DEVELOPMENT you Mr Chairman. Since we are rights. Kgosi Masunga wanted servant, including teachers, is (HONOURABLE faced with economic downturn, to know what the benefits for entitled to leave. They can apply MASIMOLOLE): Thank which is cheaper; buying providing essential services for leave during school vacation. you Mr Chairman. Parents BHC houses or construction are. Being an essential service They are allowed to go on leave in Masunga, Mosojane, by the Government? Has the provider does not necessarily Mr Chairman, and nothing is Letsholathebe and Vukwi Government directed BHC to mean that there will be benefits. being taken away from them. villages made an agreement to build those houses so it could What it means is that an Thank you Mr Chairman. construct three(3) hostel blocks 140 141 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer for girls and three (3) hostel blocks boys at Maruje Community MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi How possible is it for them to Junior Secondary School through pledges. The project has not been you are confusing me. Kgosi raise funds for the project on completed as yet. Masunga had asked if it were their own under this recession? possible for the Government to Records of contributions by the Community:- Thank you assist and now I am getting the OUTSTANDING same question Kgosi Seeletso, HONOURABLE VILLAGE PLEDGE CONTRIBUTED BALANCE anyway let me give the Minister MASIMOLOLE: Thank you MASUNGA P20 000 P20 000 NIL the floor to respond. Mr Chairman. I agree with VUKWI P15 000. P4 622 P10 378 HONOURABLE Kgosi that the Government MOSOJANE P50 000 P12 000 P38 000 MASIMOLOLE: Thank you is experiencing an economic LETSHOLATHEBE P10 000 P8 730 P1 270 Mr Chairman. Like I have downturn and that we as TOTAL P95 000 P45 352 P49 648 said earlier on, we are still individuals feel the effects as well. I have explained earlier that (i) Skills Share International donated P225 000 towards the project. in consultation with other stakeholders. Masunga residents maybe the delay is caused by the (ii) British Council donated 144beds, 144 mattresses and 144 managed to contribute their part, current drought which hinders lockers. residents of Vukwi, Mosojane the community to sell livestock Mr. Chairman, the initial agreement between the community and and Letsholathebe may also be in order to contribute towards the the Government was that the community would complete the six (6) able to clear their outstanding project. Due to this shortage Mr hostel blocks and hand them over to the Government to run. This has balances. We are aware that at Chairman, students still have to not happened. the end of the day, students are walk long distances to school. Students from Dagwi travel five KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank you Mr Chairman. The community the ones who are affected by this kilometres, Letsholathebe, eight has done so much by achieving this on their own, something that the unfavourable situation. We hope Government encourages. Would it be so difficult for the Government that the money pledged will be kilometres and Mosojane, eight to complete the project? I believe that the girls’ block is complete. The contributed and if not then we kilometres as well. Government Government has already built the boarding master’s house, why don’t will come up with a plan. Thank has set 10km as the maximum they take over? Thank you. you Mr Chairman. distance a student may walk in order to reach school, so those HONOURABLE MASIMOLOLE: Thank you Mr Chairman. There KGOSI MASUNGA: Mr villages fall within the stipulated is nothing hindering the Government from taking over the project. We Chairman, how long has this distance. I understand that some currently have an agreement with the community and we wanted to project been suspended? Is the of these students are young and wait patiently for what we agreement upon to be accomplished. We Minister aware that students fragile to walk the stipulated will however, assess the situation and see what we can do. Thank you commute from far areas and distances. We are still consulting Mr Chairman. that they have challenges like on the matter while we try to KGOSI SEELETSO: Mr Chairman, if the community fails to crossing a full river during rainy speed up the whole process so complete the project despite their effort in raising the money, would seasons? If the Government is that we address the completion that be it? I think the Government should assist the community to facing economic recession, what of the project. Thank you Mr complete the project. Thank you Mr Chairman. more about the community? Chairman. 142 143 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Questions For Oral Answer Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank (i) if there is any assistance his colleagues will advise him in my conclusion. Kindly give you Mr Chairman, I hope the given to people injured by that he should attend the House me a moment to search for it, Mr project does not fail. wild animals; and especially that he is new to the Chairman. Cabinet. Honourable Swartz if no such assistance is MR CHAIRMAN: Kgosi, I BUILDING OF A CAMP FOR according to the order of available, will the Minister observed that even yesterday THE DEPARTMENT OF precedence you are among the explain the reason why. you were still searching for that WILDLIFE AND NATIONAL eldest in the Cabinet so please document; I wonder if you will PARKS IN KACHIKAU Question - deferred advise Honourable Minister find it. of Environment, Wildlife and KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE PROVISION OF A Tourism to attend Ntlo ya (CHOBE REGION): asked STOREROOM IN KGOSI MASUNGA: I believe Dikgosi meetings. We therefore the Minister of Environment, LETLHAKANE FOR so have concluded questions for the Wildlife and Tourism to state:- STORAGE OF HIDES day Honourable Ministers. MR CHAIRMAN: I believe (i) when a camp will be KGOSI O. S. MACHILIDZA that whatever you wanted to built for the Department (BOTETI REGION): asked ESTABLISHMENT OF quote can be said from head, of Wildlife and National A FAMILY AFFAIRS Parks in Kachikau since the Minister of Environment, proceed Kgosi. Wildlife and Tourism if he will MINISTRY they have been allocated a KGOSI MASUNGA: I was consider providing a storeroom Motion plot in the area dating back trying to quote something in Letlhakane (Boteti) for storage to 1980; and KGOSI MASUNGA (NORTH about a country where a family of hides from wildlife killed by EAST DISTRICT): Thank council was set up. I wanted (ii) if any camp has been built farmers. for this department through you Mr Chairman I had already to outline the mandate of that National Development KGOSI MACHILIDZA: Let started presenting this motion council in the development of Plan apart from donations me also defer my question Mr yesterday before we adjourned the family setup in that particular by international donor Chairman. I think an apology at 4 o’ clock. Let me thank country. Mr Chairman, of late agencies. should be forwarded to you the Minister for having found the divorce rate is very high but before the sitting so that we time to come to the House. Mr the grounds for those divorces MR CHAIRMAN: I do not know know the Minister will not be Chairman, I will now conclude are not convincing. Currently, if there is anyone representing in to respond to the questions. so that I give Members time to marriage benefits the individuals the Minister of Environment, Maybe you should make a follow debate. When we adjourned, I who are in that set up only. They Wildlife and Tourism up Mr Chairman, on what might was talking about how the policy would enjoy benefits such as Question-deferred be the problem with the Minister is going to have great influence having children and raising them in future family trends. I would ASSISTANCE GIVEN TO not turning up. He is a new together. In the past, the benefits like to quote something Mr PEOPLE INJURED BY Minister; he should ensure that of marriage were for the family, Chairman, if you allow me. I ANIMALS he attends the House. Thank you their community and eventually Mr Chairman. think that deferring the questions the nation at large. Mr Chairman, KGOSI M. MMUALEFHE has affected my preparation for divorce is on the rise at present Question - deferred (CHOBE REGION): asked this presentation. However, let and I believe that it is because we the Minister of Environment, MR CHAIRMAN: Thank me just look for this important have failed as a country to build Wildlife and Tourism to state:- you, Kgosi Machilidza. I think document to quote for Members supporting structures which 144 145 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion strengthen a marriage. When one for us to establish flexi hours policy and all will have to build has various departments such as shows intent to get married; it for men? They should also take capacity on that policy. When Labour, Immigration, Prisons, is a long process. There will be some time to go and check on the one builds capacity, they are Archives and Women’s Affairs, cultural consultations which will children at home during working allowing the community to set I may be corrected if I have eventually lead to the legalisation hours? These are some of the its own agenda. To build resilient omitted any department. Due of the union. This process takes developments that have been communities; is to give them to lots of responsibilities, the time and can be costly, it will that dialogue, that forum where Ministry may not be able to give introduced in other countries. really show how determined one the community or family is issues pertaining to family life is to get married. However, when I move on to talk about class in given the agenda and the power first priority. We appreciate that it comes to divorce, it becomes the society. In the past, the social to manage their own affairs. the Ministry has a Department for so easy. Personally I believe classes were not distinct but I have presented my motion Women’s Affairs and has drafted that the divorce process could now because of the economic Mr Chairman. Botswana is at Policies for Children. However, have been made complicated to situation of capitalism, things crossroads in terms of morality, they may be overwhelmed by avoid people just walking out of have changed. The upper classes there is a problem, our level of the work load and not give marriages. Mr Chairman, I would are up there and then there morality is disintegrating. It is family issues enough attention. like to talk about the influence of is the middle class. The gap our responsibility as Batswana That is why we should consider family on leadership. I once said between these two groups and to come up with instruments to establishing a Family Affairs that this nation, going forward, the lower class is huge. When take care of the regeneration of Ministry which will look at will have leadership crisis. There we look at programs that are in the morality of this nation. With family matters which will be are no supporting structures place; housing appeal, backyard those words Mr Chairman, I guided by its own policies. Kgosi which will mould young people gardening, Ipelegeng and others would like to urge Members to has used the Ministry of Youth, which the President has in place into leadership, going forward. support this motion as I have Sport and Culture as an example. to assist Batswana, they could The leadership is going to presented it. Thank you Mr A lot of things have been assist if they were run by a encounter some challenges in the Chairman. achieved since the establishment current generation because the coordinated structure. Due to the of this Ministry and the same younger generation is not trained absence of those policies and the KGOSI GAREBAKWENA thing could happen with the for leadership at an early age. structures, every department uses (MOLEPOLOLE REGION): establishment of Family Affairs There is a crisis in the family. their own approach. Thank you Mr Chairman. I stand Ministry. It will address issues I therefore believe that if we Moving on to the welfare of to support Kgosi Masunga’s like child maintenance, marriage could have a Ministry of Family the state, Mr Chairman, the motion which requests the and other matters relating to the Affairs, it would draft a policy Government cannot maintain Government to establish a family. The Government loses a which will become an instrument this assistance; it has gone far Ministry responsible for family lot of money trying to empower of dialogue where Batswana will beyond what it was supposed affairs. A family is the foundation the young generation. Their be able to define a family. There is to be initially. It appears like to the future of a country. We different behaviours have an an issue of work versus the family we have become handicapped are all aware that family issues effect on the assistance that the responsibilities. Nowadays, there due to the programmes that are are addressed by different Government wants to provide is change of gender roles, where in place. I believe that when Ministries especially within the them with. Some of the causes both the husband and the wife there is a policy, the Ministry Ministry of Labour and Home of this bad behaviour are brought are working. Is it not time yet will become the overseer of that Affairs. However, the Ministry about by poor upbringing from 146 147 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion the family set up. Just to cite an ‘to specifically address policy KGOSI MOSADI (BALETE): prostitution, street children and example, when a child is raised issues that promote family Thank you Mr Chairman. I will the spread of HIV”. The list of in an unstable family, the effects life.’ We currently have social quickly get into the motion, social ills is endless Mr Chairman. of what that child went through worker services which I think “establishment of Family Affairs We always try to solve one or two may only become visible at a could address these issues. The Ministry.” The mover of the of those. Honourable Members motion has said a mouthful even later stage. If only this Ministry other thing is that people who will remember that there was could be established issues could are married are bound by the though other Members feel that be solved at an early age. We law to handle certain family some of the things he said were a committee which was led by are aware that the decision to matters. The third point is that unnecessary. I stand to support the Chairman of this House. Our establish new ministries lies with the family has medical benefits the motion. I believe that most President proposed that there His Excellency the President when they are married. My last of the problems emanate from should be this committee because but we as the advisory body point is that if the married couple the fact that we have lost our he is concerned about prevalent believe that this advice will be is employed by the Government, roots which are based on family. social ills in the country; crime, considered. With that I support they are entitled to some I would like to quote our vision disobedience, HIV as well as 2016, even though we will Kgosi Masunga’s motion. Government schemes. These are other issues. The committee the reasons why I do not support soon be in 2016, we got to map KGOSI MONNAATHEBE came up with its findings and this motion. There are systems a way forward after the 2016 (THAMAGA REGION): in place already. Thank you Mr vision Mr Chairman. Page 12 made recommendations. If we Thank you Mr Chairman, I Chairman. of the long term vision talks all recall well, the burning issue stand to support the motion. about family values, traditions behind crime was poor parenting Way back when we used our MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you and history. It says “the family and the nation at large wanted to traditional laws, marriages were Kgosi Mmualefhe. It is now will be a central institution for reinstate... arranged based on behaviour 10.30 a.m. and we shall adjourn the support and development and upbringing. We cannot be for tea and while we are at it, let KGOSI BOIDITSWE: I do not of people in Botswana and for against the establishment of a us remember that it is Friday. We see the Minister responsible for the transmission of social and Family Affairs Ministry. It will resume at 11.00 a.m. this motion. moral values. The strength of the assist in addressing the issues of PROCEEDINGS family will have been reinforced HONOURABLE MEMBER: child development. I just want to SUSPENDED FOR TEA in response to the rapid social (Inaudible) support the motion and to say that changes that are sweeping the we have heard the presentation MR CHAIRMAN (KGOSI KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Yes, country, the region and the of the motion and I believe that GABORONE): I hope that may be I am wrong but I cannot world.” The second paragraph Members have understood the we will cover all the business see the Minister responsible for goes on to say, “the emphasis presentation despite their silence. in today’s order paper but I do this motion on a strong family unit will Thank you Mr Chairman not want to cut anyone short. I encourage responsible parenting MR CHAIRMAN: I saw him believe that we shall aim towards earlier. KGOSI MMUALEFHE debating the motions in such a and the institution of marriage. (CHOBE REGION): Thank way that we get a clear picture of It will provide the social KGOSI MOSADI: Should I you Mr Chairman. I do not the outcome and then move on to foundation for the eradication of continue Mr Chairman? support this motion. The key the rest. We continue with Kgosi problems such as high incidents MR CHAIRMAN: Continue words from this motion are, Masunga’s motion. of teenage pregnancies, adultery, Kgosi Mosadi 148 149 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion KGOSI MOSADI: The concern underperformance of students. Ministries, something which support this motion. It appears raised by the nation is that it The Ministry of Education and will create more problems for like we as Members of Ntlo appears like our parenting is Skills Development through us. Mr Chairman, we have the ya Dikgosi want to establish influenced by the environment Parent Teacher Association department of social services a Ministry for every issue. A and the rapid social changes that (PTA) should introduce which deals with destitute family does not need a ministry are sweeping the country, the courses on parenting skills persons and orphans. In the but rather it should be guided by region and the world. Batswana and the importance of parents’ past, the death rate was not very Bogosi. It is closer to Bogosi than do not know how to deal with involvement in their children’s high, therefore, the number of a Ministry. Ministries are run in these new developments. education. We have always orphans was not as high as it is at modern ways, the employees of Kgosi Monnaathebe mentioned complained that parents present. We all know that Social that Ministry will do what they something about our history that disregard their children’s Services Department provides like which may not necessarily I would like to refer to. Dikgosi education. I therefore believe that for all orphans but the reality is address the issues which affect and Dikgosana are still faced the Ministry of Family Affairs that these children need families the family. We always complain with the task of building families should be established so that it where they can be raised and that family issues like divorce and uniting the community as addresses these issues. Other guided. I still believe that we should not be handled by the well as arbitration. Dikgosana Members have indicated that need this Ministry Mr Chairman, High Court. Normally the union had wards which were made the Women’s Affairs department of marriage is blessed by parents to build a better future. up of family units. Parenting should be called Gender affairs after satisfying all the cultural was a joint venture amongst department so that it can deal We should avoid instances where negotiations but when they extended family members. We with issues for both genders. we will only react when there have misunderstandings, they at are aware of the social changes is crisis. We are aware of the times go to these courts without where families are no longer in We have another Ministry; fact that there are no finances telling the parents. The family one place, something which has Ministry of Youth, Sport and but these motions should be and Kgosi should be involved affected parenting in general. Culture. It deals with youth considered in the long run. I in reconciling the couple. Mr Now we have intertribal and empowerment but we still do not have a problem if my Chairman, we are currently interracial marriages which have believe that there is need for an motions are not considered but complaining about Childline and affected our norms in building umbrella Ministry to take care I know that at some point they children’s rights associations yet a family. Another challenge is of all these issues. This should will be considered somewhere we want to form this Ministry. I that at present, every Motswana also cover the Children’s Act. else even though we may not see this as a problem if we really is free to reside in any part of The Children’s Act has some be acknowledged as Ntlo ya want to retain our tradition. Mr the country, this too has drawn merits but some parts of the Act Dikgosi. I believe that even if Chairman, we have Women’s Affairs department, a department families apart. are an eye sore to Batswana. this motion is not adopted, some The Ministry of Family Affairs day it will pass and we will build which should be able to solve We always try to come up will look at the issues raised by a better Botswana. Thank you Mr most issues but they fail to do so with motions which address Batswana and what the law says Chairman. even though they have structures these issues in this House. to map the way forward. If we and policies in place. I once brought a motion to keep negating these motions, KGOSI BOIDITSWE this House to address the then we will continue having to (SEROWE REGION): Thank KGOSI MOSADI: On a point challenge of poor parenting and deal with issues from different you Mr Chairman. I do not of clarification. We are talking

150 151 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion about establishing a Ministry (a) by rising to a point of order the floor whether to yield or extension of the workshop but which will assist us in some way when the Member speaking not. Please continue Kgosi due to time constraints it was not to make our job easier. We should shall resume his seat and the Boiditswe. possible. Instead of establishing note that Dikgosi operate under Member interrupting shall a Ministry to address all these the Government which governs direct attention to the point KGOSI BOIDITSWE: Thank issues, I would rather table a through ministries which have which he wishes to bring to you Mr Chairman. My concern motion for us to go back to our policies. I want Kgosi to focus notice and submit it to the is that there are some issues roots/tradition as opposed to on his debate knowing that a Chairman for decision.” which should have been the this motion presented by Kgosi Ministry has its own policies responsibility of Bogosi but they Masunga. We will see which I want to explain these which guide its departments, are under some Ministries. I motion will be implemented first. provisions before we go any as much as we have policies to am not trying to undermine any That is how far I will go with my further. When a Member use as Dikgosi. Thank you Mr Ministry but some of these issues debate Mr Chairman. Thank you rises on a point of order, there Chairman. are not attended to accordingly. sir should be something out of Let me just give an example in KGOSI BOIDITSWE: It is order which he wants to bring MR CHAIRMAN: Thank conclusion, practices such as evident that there is no progress to the Chairperson’s attention. you Kgosi Boiditswe. Kgosi Dikgafela and regiments could in some of these things, even The Member on the floor will Masunga has already tabled his address the situation we have though they are run from resume his seat to give the motion but you are yet to table currently in Botswana especially other departments, we are still person who has raised a point yours, I wonder when you will with the youth. My suggestion is involved. I would understand if of order a chance to do so and compete about these motions. that we should take over some we wanted to establish a Bogosi a decision will be made. of the family issues from the KGOSI KAHIKO III: Mr Ministry so that it becomes Government. I believe that if Chairman. As per section 31 of The second point is rising on independent in the sense that all some of these issues are handled our rules of procedure, I move a point of elucidation; issues pertaining to tradition are by Bogosi, they will be resolved. that the question be put. dealt with at that ministry but (b) “to elucidate some matter For example, we had a taskforce MR CHAIRMAN: I get what not this one. Mr Chairman, let raised by that Member in the in Serowe and the Government you are saying regarding section me yield for Members as I can cause of his or her speech, had invited different stakeholders 31 and I do not want to dispute see that they have something to if the Member speaking such as Attorney General, that. The Chairman can use say because they are disturbing is willing to give way and Finance and others to present this section provided he does me even if I do not yield. I had resume his seat and the to students. There were various not violate the rights of those wanted to be brief. Member wishing to interrupt topics covered which included Members who wish to debate is called by the Chairman.” taboos found in our Setswana the motion. If Kgosi is moving MR CHAIRMAN: Let me culture, marriage, confinement Let us differentiate those that the question be put, I guess advise you on something rules and taboos that guide a aspects. If one raises a point that Members are conversant confined mother during this Honourable Members. Rule 29 of order, this is brought to the with this provision; it would period. It was a surprise to of the rules of procedure says that attention of the Chairperson then mean that I will not give the “subject to the provisions of Rule and if a Member wants to the students as they had never Minister the floor to respond. I do 31, a Member shall not interrupt elucidate on something then heard of such information. not know if this is what Members another Member except - it depends on the Member on They even requested for an want especially after the long 152 153 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion debate we have had. Anyway, different Ministries addressing we are supposed to address. I the protection of the Chairman. I shall now put the question the issues independently, we stand to support this motion Mr I believe that Members have to determine if we continue would achieve more. If the Chairman. We are faced with debated Kgosi Masunga’s motion debating the motion or not. department is formed then lobola issues, divorces- some and at this point I will give the representatives from different are attended by Dikgosi while Minister the floor to respond to Question put and negated. tribes represented in this House others are attended at the District the motion. could be roped in to form part Commissioner. We do not have MR CHAIRMAN: We move of the staff for the department. the statistics of these divorces. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF on with the debate Religious representatives would Another element is the issue of EDUCATION AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT (HON also be part of this department. transfers, where spouses work in KGOSI LOTLAMORENG II MASIMOLOLE): Thank (BAROLONG): Thank you Mr Mr Chairman, the department different places. We do not know the Ministry which addresses you Mr Chairman. Thank you Chairman. I feel that we should will include all the different Honourable Members for this give the Government a chance to stakeholders and other Non- these issues. These are some issues which will fall under debate. I will not single out the explain their take regarding this Governmental Organizations the Family Affairs Ministry. If debates because most Members issue. Even though I agree with such as Child line. For those supported the motion tabled Kgosi Masunga that we have we form a department, which reasons Mr Chairman, I do not ministry will it fall under since by Kgosi Masunga, I will just family issues in Botswana; I do support this motion even though touch on a few points. When not think that the issues will be a department must be under a I support Kgosi Masunga on the Kgosi Garebakwena debated solved by establishing a Ministry Ministry? I do not know where fact that the family structure is in we are going. I personally this motion, he mentioned that of this kind. I agree with Kgosi a lot of departments fall under Boiditswe even though I did not crisis. Thank you Mr Chairman believe that this motion should be debated thoroughly; we the Ministry of Labour and understand some of the things he Home Affairs including Prisons, was saying. We have to note that MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you should not just rush through it. Kgosi Lotlamoreng II. I was not With those few words I support Archives, Library and others, I a Ministry is headed by a political would like to make a correction; against Kgosi Kahiko’s motion the motion. head in the form of a Minister, Prisons is no longer under but I would like to remind I do not undermine Ministers KGOSI LOTLAMORENG Ministry of Labour and Home in any way Mr Chairman, but Members about section 31 of our II: Mr Chairman, we seek Affairs. It is under the Ministry by virtue of being political Rules of Procedure, we should protection from you Sir. We are of Defence, Justice and Security. heads, they use their political conclude the motion. free to debate a motion the way The same applies to National policies to run the Ministries. we understand it. I request that Archives, it is now under the KGOSI LEMPADI Mr Chairman, a Ministry is big; we should not be criticized for Ministry of Youth, Sport and (OKAVANGO REGION): it would need personnel and a airing our views. Thank you Mr Culture, together with Botswana Thank you Mr Chairman. Let Minister as well as other things. Chairman. National Library Service. So, instead of establishing a me remind this House that we Family Affairs Ministry, maybe are mandated to address issues MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you I thank Members for the debate we could form something at pertaining to culture and this Kgosi Lotlamoreng II. I believe but let me say that currently a lower level. If we form a particular motion deals with that Members are all aware there are Ministries which department which will address culture. I do not understand why that every Member has every deal with family issues. We all family issues rather than we should negate issues which right to air their views under trust that given the existing 154 155 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Affairs Ministry - Motion Affairs Ministry - Motion policies and guidelines, the people to build a family are the the Constitution. Everything that with the issues. When Kgosi departments tasked with family family members themselves and affects the Constitution should wants to run programmes, he issues are doing a great job and Bogosi. All the issues that the pass through Parliament which should do so looking at what responding well to the issues. Members have been raising are will consider whether or not to Batswana want and the policy. These Ministries are the Ministry already addressed adequately make that provision. Like I said Mr Chairman, recently you led of Labour and Home Affairs by the existing policies and Mr Chairman, currently there the Puso Gaborone taskforce and which deals with Gender issues. procedures within the ministries is no need to establish a Family submitted recommendations. We Ministry of Local Government that I have already mentioned. Affairs Ministry which will deal know that at the end of the day the has a department which deals with Kgosi Masunga has talked about with family matters. That is my implementation of the resolutions social welfare issues. One of the morality of this nation. His response to the motion. Thank is not national dialogue. Already Members has already mentioned Excellency the President of the you Mr Chairman there were some people who that the Ministry of Youth Sport Republic appointed a taskforce were questioning the authority KGOSI MASUNGA: Thank and Culture deals with issues of led by Kgosi Gaborone; they which appointed the taskforce you Mr Chairman. I believe that youth empowerment and social were tasked with establishing without setting up the modalities Kgosi Lotlamoreng was right welfare. Family welfare cuts the cause of moral decay in the and methodologies of setting up when he said that we are free across many Ministries and those country. Honourable Members, this instrument. This is a brilliant to air our views. Let me briefly Ministries consult one another this is one thing that we should report but the people who can help respond to some issues raised on all the issues. do, to unite our communities so to drive that report through their by Members. Kgosi Boiditswe that we do not lose our morality expertise do not want to associate I agree with Kgosi Boiditswe may have forgotten that every as a nation. Kgosi Masunga has themselves with it. They feel that a family is run by the family department is headed by a rightfully said that Botswana is that at the time of setting up the and the Bogosi institution; Ministry; the Ministry does not becoming a welfare state, that composition, there was a concern we therefore cannot afford to take ownership of all the policies. is a fact and we cannot dispute which was not addressed. Mr establish a Ministry for each and There has to be coordination that. This is a result of too Chairman, to come up with a every issue which starts. I was between institutions in order many hand-outs. Maybe it is new understanding of the world, with my colleague the other day to run things according to time for Dikgosi to talk to their we need a construction of new and he said that he is serving standards. No one can dispute communities and start building a ideas. We need construction of as the Minister of Healing and the fact that Bogosi can guide the nation that we all want. Dikgosi new patterns of dialogue and new Reconciliation in his country. family but if we as Dikgosi want should assist in strengthening perspectives. As it is, Botswana In their country, every issue to take all the responsibility then marriages. In conclusion Mr cannot reach its destination as has its Ministry. Mr Chairman, we would not be doing justice Chairman, Parliament is the a country. Global experts who this House should advise us, to ourselves. Bogosi institution only body which can call for usually assess the nation of the issues pertaining to divorce does not have resources and the establishment of a Ministry Botswana have indicated that are supposed to be handled by cannot even initiate its own as stipulated in the Constitution our country will eventually have the family and then referred to research. Nowadays some people of Botswana. The President can economic challenges if we do not Bogosi. Of late, even minor issues choose when to respect Kgosi also establish a Ministry if he diversify this economy. In other are referred to the Magistrate because they have rights. or the High Court, disregarding deems it appropriate to do so. economies, the Government’s our traditional procedure. I The number of Ministers and Bogosi should be guided by focus is on health and security personally believe that the Assistant Ministers is guided by the Ministry on how to deal because the people have been

156 157 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Establishment of a Family Friday 2nd November, 2012 Reduction of Age Eligibility for Affairs Ministry - Motion Leave Travel Concession - Motion empowered to take care of will remain troubled. I will stop KGOSI GAREBAKWENA: request this House to support themselves but in our case it is here Mr Chairman and I hope I will defer the motion even this motion, I do not have much the opposite. At the same time, you understood me. Thank you. though I was not told of that to say because at times a lengthy the Government does not have arrangement. Thank you presentation may confuse my MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you the resources to secure the future Motion - deferred. colleagues. Thank you Mr because the diamonds are getting Kgosi Masunga. I will now put Chairman. finished. It is not clear yet as the question REDUCTION OF MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you to what will happen to the coal Question put and agreed to. AGE ELIGIBILITY Kgosi Monnaathebe. which we thought will be another SETTING UP OF FOR LEAVE TRAVEL CONCESSION form of economic intervention. DIGITAL COMPUTER KGOSI MACHILIDZA LABORATORIES Motion (BOTETI REGION): Thank I agree with Kgosi Lotlamoreng ACROSS MR CHAIRMAN: Are you still you Mr Chairman. Kgosi on expenses. Yes, there is going GOVERNMENT in consultation for this one as Monaathebe’s motion is to be more expenditure but we SECONDARY SCHOOL well? Okay, thank you. reasonable and I therefore support are talking about a long term Motion it. Maybe the consideration to plan that the Government should KGOSI MONNAATHEBE pay out leave concession at 7 consider. We could start as a KGOSI MASUNGA: Mr (THAMAGA REGION): Thank years came after realising that Chairman, let me request to defer department like Kgosi has said you Mr Chairman for giving me when a child is at that age they this motion as I am tired and I and later set up a ministry. There the opportunity to present this gain knowledge from traveling. is a country where they have believe the Minister is also tired motion. It reads thus, “That this since he spent the whole day This motion could assist us established a family council. Honourable House requests the because as Dikgosi we always here. Thank you Government to reduce the age We could do likewise and that forget to remind our secretaries of children eligible for a leave council could be established Motion – deferred travel concession from seven to prepare the leave travel and advise the Government. In REVIEW OF PROTOCOL to six years since most children concession claim on time and conclusion Mr Chairman, all ON THE ORDER OF start school at that age.” I present we end up getting paid late. The the Ministries that the Minister PRECEDENCE this motion to this House because Government should also employ we are an advisory body to the secretaries who are in a position has outlined did not bring any Motion change in fact we are regressing Government. The Government to remind Dikgosi that they are MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable due for allowances. We need to as a nation. Kgosi Lempadi has decided that children should Minister, are you here to respond be admitted for primary school be reminded as we cannot keep talked about transfers, for one to this motion? at 6 years. Even research shows track of the last time we claimed. to know that there is a problem; ASSISTANT MINISTER that indeed children should start This has led some Dikgosi not they should look at the way our OF EDUCATION AND school at that age. I came up to claim because we do not have transfers are implemented. The SKILLS DEVELOPMENT with this motion based on that anything to refer to since our drivers of our vision as a country (HON MASIMOLOLE): I am development. Mr Chairman, files are kept at Headquarters. are working on issues which are available Mr Chairman but we parents travel with their 6 year Mr Chairman, some motions are not harmonised. As long as that had requested that since we are old children and they incur presented in order to highlight harmony is not there, like we are still in consultation, the motion other expenses as soon as these some of the things which with the HIV/AIDS issue, we be deferred to a later date. children start schooling. Let me should be rectified. The mover 158 159 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Reduction of Age Eligibility for Leave Friday 2nd November, 2012 Reduction of Age Eligibility for Travel Concession - Motion Leave Travel Concession - Motion of the motion presented it at age is likely to drop once more. from 7 years to 6 years. Maybe ASSISTANT MINISTER OF the right time. As I support this My second reason is that; at the Government had reasons EDUCATION AND SKILLS motion, I am inclined to add present, leave concession is no for stating 7 years as the age of DEVELOPMENT (HON some burning issues about leave longer claimed for purposes of eligibility for concession. I would MASIMOLOLE): Thank you concession without changing travelling with some members of like to request the mover of the Mr Chairman. I will start off by the motion. I might differ the family. When one is due, they motion to provide substantive addressing the issue raised by reasons as to why he wants this Kgosi Machilidza that most of slightly with the mover of the just claim it even if they do not reduction of age of eligibility motion when it comes to the have any trip to take. I therefore just like Kgosi Masunga did with the Members forget the date for age for receiving leave travel do not support this motion. his motion. I was not convinced claiming since 2 years is a long concession. All the children must Thank you. with the presentation maybe the time. Honourable Members just like leave days, the secretaries enjoy that endowment from the KGOSI KAHIKO III mover of the motion can defer it to give himself time to prepare are supposed to remind Members Government because parents (GHANZI WEST REGION): for it. Thank you Mr Chairman. that they are due to claim leave should travel with their children Thank you Mr Chairman. Let concession. However, I want to me request Kgosi to amend the after the concession is paid out. I KGOSI SEEMEKO urge Members to keep records motion so that it specifically support the motion Mr Chairman. (SPECIALLY ELECTED): On for themselves so that they do deals with General Order 107 a point of order Mr Chairman. I Thank you not lose track of time. Everything and 107.2 which define a child believe that when we are in the KGOSI TSHIPE eligible for concession. He House, we debate in a certain has its starting and end point. (MAHALAPYE REGION): should request the Government manner. If one does not support The mover of the motion has Thank you Mr Chairman. I will to amend the General Order. the motion, they should go presented his reasons for the need not take long. I do not support Thank you Mr Chairman. straight to the debate instead to reduce the age to 6 years as the motion which requests the of pointing out that one did not opposed to the 7 years which has Government to reduce the age of MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you bring substantive reasons. This been in place. This is reflected in Kgosi Kahiko. Honourable eligibility for leave concession is not the manner of debate Mr the General Order Kgosi Kahiko Members please do not confuse from 7 to 6 years. My first reason Chairman, they will derail us. mentioned earlier on. The mover me. There is a procedure to follow calls for its amendment to make a is that children do not start when making an amendment to a MR CHAIRMAN: Thank you provision for 6 year old children school at 6 years but they start motion and Members are aware Kgosi Seemeko. Honourable from as early as 6 months at pre- of it. Kgosi Kahiko did not Members, the procedure is that to claim. I do not believe that school level. If we go with this propose any amendment to be we debate the motion based on there is a primary school child motion any Member is free to debated in this House. the presentation by the mover. I at 6 months and only 5 or 6 year table another motion requesting do not know how you measure olds are enrolled at primary the Government to reduce the KGOSI SEKWENYANE the strength of the presentation. school level. The main reason for age of eligibility to 6 months. (NGWAKETSE WEST The debate should follow what enrolling children who are five Mr Chairman, the issue of age REGION): Thank you Mr has been presented, whether it and half (5.5 ) years old when Chairman. I have been listening makes it impossible for me to is convincing or not, the House standard seven students close, is to the mover of the motion for them to get used to the school support this motion because but I am not impressed by his will indicate through the debate. environment. We prepare them the Government has arranged presentation. It appears like there If there is nothing further to be for children to start the pre- was no research as to why the age said, I will give the Minister the for standard one. Mr Chairman, school level at 5 years and the of eligibility should be reduced floor to respond. we will consider this request as 160 161 Friday 2nd November, 2012 Reduction of Age Eligibility for Leave Friday 2nd November, 2012 Reduction of Age Eligibility for Travel Concession - Motion Leave Travel Concession - Motion presented by Kgosi Monaathebe. that we should look into because some of the matters to be shared families. Let me wish you a He has presented his motion we are regressing. We have to with the community. On another merry Christmas and I hope you and stated his reasons therefore draw up milestones and achieve note, we have talked about will be in good health until next his request will be considered. them but it becomes a problem demarcation of our regions, year. Let us continue serving the Thank you Mr Chairman when we cannot achieve them this is something we are yet to nation with diligence Honourable as a result of an inconvenience discuss with other Dikgosi who Members. On another note, KGOSI MONNAATHEBE: caused by Ministers. Tomorrow are in our regions so that we we should all remember that Thank you Mr Chairman. we have a culture day at can prepare ourselves for any we have a function tomorrow. Let me thank the Minister for Botswana craft where Members changes. Let us meet at 2 o’clock and understanding my concern will interact and share tradition discuss this further, alone. I am and for the response. I would as well as their mandate with There is an issue which we talked not chasing our visitors away; also want to thank Honourable the public. Honourable Minister, about in this House and the media we will just be having a private Members for debating this that look shows that you will covered it in such a way that it meeting. Thank you Honourable motion, those who supported and be with us at the event and you appeared as if Members were Minister for having been with us those who did not. Thank you Mr will buy the P250 ticket to the asking for something. I believe since yesterday, and let me also Chairman event. We will be sharing and that this is one of the issues that thank Honourable Members for MR CHAIRMAN: Today you appreciating cultures from our Members will discuss with the their cooperation and for having have been very brief indeed different regions. This event will community. They should urge worked hard towards finishing Kgosi and thank you for that. take place tomorrow. I believe them to enrol and take part in the business of the house. With Other Members would say that that it will be a success. The Government programmes. I that, the House is adjourned sine they will be brief, only to take main aim of this event is not only know that some people present die. to celebrate culture but to raise Government programmes in the longest time debating. I shall ADJOURNMENT now put the question. funds as well so that we give a certain way but those do back to the less fortunate. This not reflect the position of this The House accordingly Question put and agreed to. will restore their dignity within House. We had not requested adjourned at 12:00 p.m. sine die. the society and in turn, they will for anything and none of the MR CHAIRMAN: Honourable take part in the development of members has ever said that they Members, we have come to the the country are being discriminated against end of the 10th meeting of the nd as the media puts it. Members 2 Ntlo ya Dikgosi. I believe This was the last meeting of the only said their views on how that we have achieved most year 2012. I believe that Members things could be run. We should of the milestones we had set will share what we discussed be quoted well by the media. for ourselves. During the past here with their communities. week we handed over a house Like Kgosi Kebinatshwene said, The community should be given in Manyana. We have wrapped we should share the information the correct information about the up the year on a good note with other Dikgosi as well since House. Honourable Members, after that project. Regarding the we are here representing them. the rainy season has started, business of the House; I think We have addressed many issues so let us go and encourage we have covered enough even in the past 2 weeks. We talked Batswana to take advantage of though we had a challenge of about livestock which found the rains. They should produce Ministers who did not come to along the road and continue to food which will benefit us all. the House despite the invitation cause accidents which claim the With those words, may God to the meeting. This is something lives of those we love. These are bless and protect you and your 162 163