A TwoMorrows Publication No. 10, Fall 2015

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THE DEFINITIVE, OUTRAGEOUS STORY OF THE COSMIC BROADWAY EPIC Fall 2015 • Voice of the Comics Medium • Number 10 table of contents

Ye Ed’s Rant: It’s All in the Bagge...... 2

WARP-WOOdy Comics Chatter CBC mascot by J.D. King Incoming: Missives touching upon the awesome work of the late Steve Gerber...... 4 ©2015 J.D. King. About Our The Good Stuff: looks at some , superior die-cast figures...... 8 Cover Hembeck’s Dateline: Our Man Fred remembers when, in the comic strip pages, Mary Perkins shared her stage with super-hero Captain Virtue!...... 9 Art by P eter Bagge Color by Joanne Bagge Man of Miracles: Cory Sedlmeier discusses the revival and restoration of perhaps the greatest super-hero saga of them all, ...... 10 The Big Red Cheese in 75: As told to FCA’s P.C. Hamerlinck, Captain Marvel reflects on his three-quarter century as the World’s Mightiest Mortal...... 15 Comics in the Library: Rich Arndt takes a look at the Mystery of Rick Geary!...... 17 WARP! SPECIAL section The Night Broadway Got Warped!: More than four years before Star Wars, an innovative and daring theatrical troupe out of created a cosmic trilogy of the forces of good versus evil — all inspired by the Marvel Age of comics — that awed audiences in the Windy City… but could the show, now joined by the legendary Neal Adams, make it on the Great White Way?...... 18 ’s great apocalyptic cover is actually a parody of the THE MAIN EVENT /Alex Ross collabo- ration cover of Peter Bagge’s World and Welcome to It: CBC’s comprehensive interview with Adventures #1 [Jan. 2002]. Goes one of the great American cartoonists, from surviving suburbia as a kid to his to show you how long Pete has been waiting for yours truly start in the “punk” comics scene, to , , , and to modern- to finally — day work as a graphic novelist — a remarkably candid and insightful talk...... 40 FINALLY — get ready this issue BACK MATTER devoted to the

All characters TM & © Peter Bagge. Justice League Adventures DC Comics. great cartoon- Coming Attractions: The indelible mark of the amazing !...... 78 ist, especially given P.B.’s A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Ernie Colón shares his Dark Opal...... 79 piece is dated 2006! — Ye Ed. Note: With regret, we were unable to include any number of items prepared for this issue due to the If you’re viewing a Digital respective lengths of both of our two cover features, but CBC with strive to include those articles in future Edition of this publication, issues. Our appreciation to you patient readers and to all of the magazine’s understanding contributors. PLEASE READ THIS:

This is copyrighted material, NOT intended Right: Cover detail from the last issue of Peter Bagge’s Neat Stuff magazine, #15, April 1989. for downloading anywhere except our website or Apps. If you downloaded it from another website or torrent, go ahead and SPECIAL THANKS: Glenn Whitmore colored our awesome Warp cover. Art is by (of course) Neal Adams! read it, and if you decide to keep it, DO THE RIGHT THING and buy a legal down- load, or a printed copy. Otherwise, DELETE IT FROM YOUR DEVICE and DO NOT SHARE IT WITH FRIENDS OR POST IT ANYWHERE. If you enjoy our publications Artist Vol. 1 & 2 are now available enough to download them, please pay for as digital downloads from twomorrows.com! them so we can keep producing ones like this. Our digital editions should ONLY be downloaded within our Apps and at www.twomorrows.com Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: [email protected] subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $40 US, $54 Canada, $60 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their Comic Book Creator creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2015 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book is a proud joint production of Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING. Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows marvelman The Return of Miracleman Cory Sedlmeier, Marvel’s restoration virtuoso, on the revial of the classic series

Interview conducted by Jon B. Cooke CBC Editor came in and said, “We’re going for Miracleman.” Well, it took quite a while to get everything ironed out because it’s [For many of us old-time comics fans, the domain the longest and craziest history of any character — of the devil got downright frigid on Jan. 15, by a pretty long stretch, going as far back as the 2014, when the first issue of a reprinting of ’40s, if you want to draw a really long line. It the legendary Miracleman series, that took some time to get everything untangled, ground-breaking saga as originally written but once the green light was finally lit, I by and , made it jumped in with both feet. to the racks. We all knew that the property We started work in late October of was fraught with contention, and litigation, 2013. It’s amazing that much time has and that one giant mess engulfed the passed, but I’ve been busy, busy, busy, try- tales — arguably composing the finest ing to gather all the materials and original super-hero saga ever written — and many artwork that we can… From there it’s been were resigned that the epic would never again all about working with the artists, Garry Leach, see print. But the House of Ideas pulled off the , , and John Totleben, and impossible and the stories are again seeing the light of now Mark Buckingham, to bring the series back to day (albeit without Moore’s name attached, by his request, print in a way that best represents their creative as the credits feature only the credit, “The Original Writer”). . Because, particularly for guys like Garry, Cory Sedlmeier is overseeing the re-presentation of the Alan, and Rick, they didn’t have a lot of involve- series, which will soon return from hiatus with the Neil ment or input as to how their work looked beyond Gaiman-scribed story arcs. (Full disclosure: Cory has been the ink they put on the page. Chuck Austen’s first my editor for a handful of introductions I’ve written for the story, for instance. That was a nighttime scene, Marvel Masterworks series.) Transcribing by but they originally colored it as daytime! Steven Thompson. — Y.E.] In particular, Garry told me stories about how the early Eclipse stuff, when his stories were first Comic Book Creator: Can you give us a printed in color, that they were colored by underpaid little background, Cory, and what people might fabric designers from Spain. They had no idea how recognize as you having worked on? to color a comic! Garry described it as if an insane Cory Sedlmeier: The main thing that person dumped an Easter Egg kit all over the I do now is edit the Marvel Masterworks. pages. I came to Marvel 14 years ago, as a When we got to Alan Davis’ run, I spoke with college intern, and they tossed me into him about how he wanted to approach bringing the collections department. I wanted his work back to print. I asked what he thought to learn as much as I could and threw of the original series’ coloring, and he said, myself headlong into whatever “I’ve actually never seen my Miracleman they’d let me do. At the end of the work in color — ever.” I sent him PDFs of internship, Axel offered me a job, the original stuff and his response was that but by intent or just unwittingly, I’d he didn’t have any nostalgia for it because, specialized in being a little crazy of course, he’d never seen it before and about making the classic collections the best he didn’t like what he saw in the versions

they could possibly be. The collection guys Miracleman TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Cpry Sed;meier photo by and Bruce Guthrie. from the ’80s. I interned for grabbed me and I ended up I wanted to keep the look of the helping them before moving on to edi- series consistent with the time that torial proper. I worked on… just about it was conceived. The that I everything everywhere there was a fire thought could best do that was Steve to put out… Epic, X-Men, you name it. Oliff, who, I didn’t know this at first, Working with Ennis on Punisher worked at Eclipse and developed a lot of MAX and helping launch Astonishing the coloring techniques that were used X-Men were great experiences. Of the on Miracleman in the ’80s and ’90s. They series I edited on staff, / just weren’t used as well as he used : Big in , by Zeb Wells them! At least, not until Sam Parsons, and Fisher, is the most important to who Steve trained back then, took over. me. of Horror, the series of Edgar Steve was a real pioneer of a Allan Poe adaptations by Richard Corben, technique called grayline coloring. They is up there, too. Now, I get to do what I do would take the artwork and reduce it onto freelance. a Photostat in either blue or gray. The line CBC: And you’re currently working on the art was on a separate acetate overlay. Miracleman restoration. With this method the colorist could do Cory: For me, Miracleman goes as far back painted coloring that the printer repro- as when I was an intern. I remember being duced from directly. It allowed for much in the office way back in 2001 and Joe

10 #10 • Fall 2015 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR more nuanced painted coloring instead of the traditional, flat 64-color comic book coloring. Steve actually re-used those grayline techniques on the new editions of Miracleman, just like 30 years ago, doing the work by hand with markers and watercolors, then scan- ning it in and bringing it in Photoshop for the final print art. We send files to the printer digitally now, but the techniques and methods that he used were all strictly of the period. With the new coloring, this isn’t something where we’re trying to update! We’re not trying to do Turner Classic Mov- ies colorizing Citizen Kane or something like that. It’s about doing Miracleman, for the first time ever, with the artists’ full involvement and input, realizing their original vision. Everything’s been discussed with the creators and they’ve had full approval. We also worked from the original scripts and took direction from there as well. The other challenge is restoring the line art. Over half of the first three graphic novels are shot directly off the originals, in particular the Totleben run. I think I got close to finding 60% of John’s originals. His pages, scanned directly from the original artwork… are just absolutely stunning. Mark kept virtually all of his originals, which is a massive boon. For the rest, I’ve been digging up every source possible, which has been very successful. People knew this series’ importance. They held onto stuff. You know, Garry just has an amazing memory for this stuff. He has it all right in the back of his head and he saved pretty extensive files and materials from the series. So he could send me scripts, notes, sketches, and designs — all kinds of development stuff — that we incorporated into the comic reprints and the collections. It’s enabled us to really bring things together in a definitive format. It’s great that with today’s technology, we can retain so much more detail than was possible in the ’80s and ’90s. The Letratone, Mark’s photo-collages, every- thing’s crisper and clearer. It’s what these guys actually laid down on the boards. Mark’s art from “Notes from the Underground”? So much was lost in the original printing! Being able to re-present Miracleman with this level of fidel- ity and quality is a pleasure. These just showed a level of potential I Above: This godlike Miracle- guys did some of the greatest work don’t think had been seen before man variant cover by Gary of their careers and it deserves to and since. Leach is from #16 [May ’15]. be shown in the best conceivable Miracleman, for very good Inset left: #2 cover. way that it could ever be done. And reasons, was very influential and Below: A nod to that out-of- that’s what we’ve tried to do. you can see strong reflections of print, great book on the history CBC: What is your assessment of it in other work. Because it’s been of the character, Kimota! The Miracleman? out of print for so long, a lot of the MIracleman Companion, with Cory: Miracleman is one of ideas from it have been liberally Mark Buckingham cover art, a those series that just blew my borrowed, but what’s crazy is that pastiche of #2. mind, like so many other people. there’s a generation that has never When it originally came out, in 1982, if you look at what else actually read the real thing. was around at that point in time, if you look at the comics CBC: Right. And you’ve finished of the “Original Writer’s” field surrounding it, it is so far ahead of everything else. run, right? It’s been on hiatus? Me, I didn’t come to the series until later on, but when I Cory: Yes. We took a little time off because we needed did, the scope of what was being done and the way that schedules to line-up for [writer] Neil Gaiman and [artist] it approached the concept and the metaphor of super-he- Mark Buckingham. was finishing his amazing, roes and blended it with Nietzsche’s philosophy, trying to massive run on Fables including the 150th, final graphic draw a conclusion as to what might happen if these kind of novel-size issue. So we waited until the timing is right to super-powered creatures existed… How that would affect begin their run. To get the best work from two of the best them as humans… The way that Johnny Bates is corrupt- creators that have ever worked in the medium, you wait. ed… How power affects your sense of self and morality What they have in store, we want that to be as satisfying and the way that you relate other beings around you… It and perfect as possible. TM & © the respective copyright holder. Miracleman TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Warrior

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 11 geez louise, it’s the big red cheese! Shazeventy-Five & Counting! The aging hero reflects on his colorful, multi-faceted days of Golden Age

As channeled by P.C. Hamerlinck And there were always plenty of an- noying thingamajigs popping up that Holy moley! It has all seemed like a dream, just like what I had to deal with: the Selective Billy said outside of the old abandoned subway station on Invisibility Belt that caused that very first fateful night. Poor kid… some of the crazy me to think I was having stuff he’d have to report over the radio! But a lot of folks hallucinations … the believed him — and believed in us. mirror that produced Shaz– err, you-know-who anticipated the kind of evil reflections that situations we’d be up against, and equipped us with the came alive … the wisdom, strength, stamina, power, courage, and speed to Dream Transmitter everything, and I mean everything!: a raging atomic that could control fire that could even burn water… the maker… the people’s dreams … mountain mover… an artist with an eraser that could wipe the Hate Machine out anything… the time I had to seal off the hole to Hades, … or that darn where all the water in the world’s oceans had been draining horn that spewed down into… and even fighting the whole world itself! out anything you But I think some of our greatest challenges involved wished for, and lifting up disheartened souls and help them find their way as much as you as they stumbled through life. We did this frequently with desired. It sounds Tawny, our frequently foibled furry feline friend! Otherwise, nifty, but it was a I’ve witnessed humanity at its lowest and at its highest, like big mess. the day I wandered down the Street of Forgotten Men. I’ve Speaking of also seen opportunity knock for many people, and wit- messes, there’s nessed how it’s so often ignored. Once I went so far as to been a lot of unex- become a hobo in order to give a disillusioned man a sense plainable things that of purpose again in his life. I fondly recall the blind man who happened that still “saw” me in a different light than anyone else ever has, have me scratching and actually helped me solve a crime. I also met a man that my head to this day: nobody loved (except for his dog!). the Three Sister Fates I despise discrimination and prejudice more than any- who control the world thing else. I battled it often, like when Tawny tried to move and everyone’s desti- into a new neighborhood … or when all the “undesirable” nies recklessly turned 1942 people were driven out of a town called Perfection. into 1492 … and the commotion And, since I am a mortal after all, I’ve had to overcome from a simple, seemingly endless string some of my own personal issues, like being envious of the pulled from another dimension. Additionally, I faced the Above: Cartoonist Mark Lewis lives of “ordinary” men … and dealing with the monotony of living embodiment of fear itself that, quite easily, stirred kindly contributed his version saving people every day of the week. up panic in the city. Then there was the day Father Time of the Big Red Cheese at 75. Yet, as often as not, each of those days were filled with had absent-mindedly turned his hour glass upside down, Below: This illo of Mr. Mind something exciting, sometimes otherworldly, and always thereby setting events on Earth backwards — but gave me is from a sales flyer for The troublesome! Anything seemed possible. I smiled and rolled the chance to re-do things all over again the right way. And slipcase with it, no matter how offbeat things got! Imagine, if you then there were the seven men roaming the earth edition. Next page: C.C. Beck can, trying to make sense in the World of the Subconscious who were the living counterparts representing re-creation of his Whiz Comics where all things were backwards, upside down and inside the Seven Deadly Enemies of Man. It was a bit #22 cover, plus a Captain out … or traveling through a to an illogical, dou- humbling knowing that, even when I stopped Marvel Club pin. Both ble-talking place called Nowhere … or entering upon the such evil in the world, it would ultimately be courtesy of Heritage Land of Surrealism, a place where imagination was more replaced by even greater evil. Auctions. important than rules. I guess nothing was more evil than Along the way I’ve encountered Glomper frogs from that nasty little twerp, Mind. It took me two , ogres, trolls, imps, prehistoric zombies, a junkman years to stop that monster. There’s been from the Land of Limbo (where all discarded things of Earth scores of other losers like him that I’ve had end up), a house that didn’t want to be haunted, mist-like to take down … a psychotic beast-man … creatures who were the discarded instincts of mankind, a a human-hating, atomic-powered, colorblind man jealous of people who can see color so he ten-foot tall robot … and the develops a blackness germ to remove color in the city, a Nazi nut job who left my friend ghost writer who wrote ghost stories and who really was a Freddy for dead … all real ghost, a collector of bad thoughts who put a on a man pieces of work that ultimately to think aloud, the Temple of Izalotahui in Guatemala, the got what they deserved. Ah, but Book of All Knowledge that fell into the wrong hands, and from day one, I still hear the incessant cack- the trouble caused just from getting the wrong clothes back ling of the demented Doctor who keeps on from the dry cleaners! inventing gadgets and contraptions to rule the Shazam! and Mr. Mind TM & © DC Comics. Shazam! and Mr.

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 15 Neal Adams, Stuart (Re-Animator) Gordon, and others share about WARP!, the ’70s Marvel-inspired theatrical cosmic epic about a bank teller who becomes God!

From the ’70s it came. there came Warp! But the trilogy’s first episode, entitled Warp One: The first episode of a My Battlefield, My Body, wasn’t committed to celluloid; rather it was trilogy depicting the a production staged on Broadway, opening on Valentine’s Day in 1973, cataclysmic, other- performed live before the Klieg lights in front of enthusiastic Manhattan worldly struggle theatergoers. Conceived as homage to Marvel’s Doctor Strange and between cosmic warriors, Mighty Thor, the ambitious science fiction epic featured an able young some allied with the power of cast and crew, some of whom would go onto Hollywood distinction, darkness and others with the and featured the art direction of the most highly-acclaimed comic book force of good. Fantastic char- artist of that era. And although it would receive standing ovations and acters, a few unaware of their eventually an award for the innovative costuming, Warp closed after a own true nature, yet destined mere seven previews and eight performances, doomed by caustic and to save the universe through dismissive reviews and maybe a too-quick rollout on the Great White Way. newfound abilities. Shockingly, Whence Came Warp: The Warp trilogy was the brainchild of future fea- some would be revealed to ture film director Stuart Gordon (later renowned for cult favorite horror be siblings to one another, flickRe-Animator ) and novelist/playwright Lenny Kleinfeld (writing as as desperate battle is Bury St. Edmund). The production, which first had a successful year- waged against and-a-day run in Chicago, was initially staged to critical notice by the an evil overlord, Windy City’s renowned Organic Theater, a company founded by Gordon all played out before and his wife, actress Carolyn Purdy-Gordon. The Organic would later be an astounded and delighted noted for premiering famed playwright ’s breakout drama, All characters TM & © DC Comics. audience… one rumored to Sexual Perversity in Chicago, and be at the epicenter of a thriving include an incipient young theater scene in the ’80s. The origins of Warp are to be found, as easily filmmaker by the name of suspected, in an appreciation of both comics and theater. George Lucas. “I read comics as a kid,” Kleinfeld said. “I read everything as a kid. And lo, so it was, more I was an only child. The first writing I can remember doing (in second than four years before or third grade, maybe) was when I discovered you could erase the the release of Star Wars, dialogue balloons in comics and write your own. So I did an unau-

18 #10 • Fall 2015 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR thorized rewrite of an Uncle Scrooge comic book.” The political science major, described the ideologi- budding scribe would return to the form, though he explains, cal leanings of the Midwest institution. “At that “I stopped reading comics sometime around junior high time, UW was ranked only behind Berkeley in (my father threw out my collection and warned me not to terms of academic standings of public universi- buy any more), and didn’t resume reading them until the ties,” said O’Neal. “It attracted a lot of students end of my senior year of college, in 1969. I believe those from the East Coast, from all over the country, a guys [ and Jack Kirby] had been at work for a lot of international students. So there was certain- while by then. I had no idea who they were. A friend said ly a very well-educated, slightly radicalized East that went well with pot and acid. He was Coast student who had a large profile at Wiscon- right.” sin at the time.” Stuart’s upbringing was a bit restrictive. “My parents Provocateurs: Of impact was The Game Show, a didn’t want me to read super-hero comics,” he said, “so parody of TV contest programs created by Gordon, I was reading things like Scrooge McDuck and stuff like one with a razor-sharp satirical edge. O’Neal said, that. But when I got older, when I got into high school, “The Game Show was really out there. An audience I got into Marvel Comics. I became a big fan of Doctor would come in. We locked the doors of the theater. Strange, The Mighty Thor, and Conan the Barbarian.” It was based on the idea of a television game Stuart’s younger brother, David George, who would show except audience members who participated be a technical director in early Organic productions, in the game were abused, physically attacked, re- recalled the early years with his sibling. “We were strained… and, of course, they were all actors, plants very close. When I was 11 and Stuart was 14, our father died. He had a in the audience. The whole heart attack and that broke up the nuclear family, as it were. So I often premise of it was, ‘Would joke that my mother raised two ‘only children,’ in that we both had our an audience rise up own passions and our own interests, and we were always encouraged to and object to what pursue them.” was going on and shut While David is a self-described “nature nut,” Stuart revealed an inter- it down?’ In ways, it was a est in the performing arts at a very young age. “I wished I had saved this,” social experiment.” the younger brother remembered, “but after our mother passed away, I In an interview with had found, rubber-banded together, all of my brother’s report cards. On the Wisconsin Union his kindergarten or first grade one, it had some mention of he was great at website, Gordon directing play on the playground. This guy was born to be a director. ‘Plays described the the- well with others’? No, he was directing the play!” atergoers reaction. The World’s A Stage: A passion for theater came to each his own way. “Real audi- “I’ve always loved theater,” -native Kleinfeld shared. “When I ence members was in high school, there was great stuff being done in New York — a eventually rose new Albee play every year; Pinter was on a roll, too… I saw the Royal up and charged Shakespeare (or was it the National’s?) production of Marat/Sade, which the performers blew me away… And in my high school English classes, I was the only kid onstage, demand- in the room who got Shakespeare, loved Shakespeare, was immediately ing the show be intoxicated by the language.” stopped…We Chicago-born Gordon said, “I was in some high school plays and some were surprised friends and I started a comedy group called ‘The Human Race,’ which we by the reaction patterned after [the Chicago improvisational comedy group] Second City.” to The Game When asked if he performed, he said, “I did when I was a teenager, and Show. We I did some acting in college, but I discovered pretty quickly that I was a thought pretty bad actor. So I started directing.” The name of his first troupe was the au- Screw Theater. dience Cecil O’Neal, an Army veteran who started at the same university as a would TM & ©2015 Stuart Gordon Lenny Kleinfeld. Warp

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 19 what I didn’t know. And it was pretty amazing, because in William J. Norris the process of doing it, I discovered that I actually could as Symax make costumes, which I’ve been doing for the next 40 years.” She would find her forté. “What I could do is put together, essentially, wearable soft sculpture,” Gluck said, “though I had no idea what I was doing at the time and my process got much more sophisticated as I knew more about what I was doing. But having the ability to visualize two-dimensional shapes in space, solid geometry — I had Richard Fire a good head for math but being able to calculate that, and as Lugulbanda also having a sense of practical physics, which is another thing I had no idea at the time would have a practical value to me — and I came to this as an artist.” On a page devoted to the history of the Organic Theater, Gluck said, “If the [Warp] designs seemed imag- inative, it was because I didn’t know any better­ . The only reason the men’s space costumes exposed their rear ends, which was considered very daring at the time, was that I Carolyn Purdy-Gordon as Valaria had no idea how to construct a pair of trousers.” (Fortier did recall, “There were these really incredible, tight-fitting costumes that were crocheted with these open spaces.”) Enter the Flying Frog: “We were pushing as many sorts of things as we could,” the director admitted. “We had strobe lights, but some of the stuff was very low-tech,” said Gor- don. “The sound effects were all done by my brother, doing explosions in the microphone with his mouth!” So the low-tech approach was, in its way, convincing? “It was!” Gordon exclaimed. “But it was very simple stuff. We had things like flashpots, a little bit of pyro. We had Above: Caption projections. We ended up using a laser in it, some of the first laser effects. It was a combination of high-tech and John Heard Tom Towles low comedy.” as Lord Cumulus as Prince Chaos The director’s kid brother did serve as Warp’s techni- cal director. “There were a lot of special effects,” David Richard Fire George said, “lighting and things like that, in which I had promoting Warp a direct role in. I also had a direct role in making sound effects. I would use a microphone and guitar amplifier and make explosion noises, believe it or not. We’re talking low- tech here, but it worked! Almost the same thing that you’d do as a little kid, but with a microphone and reverb, I could make really giant-size explosion noises when someone got zapped by Lord Cumulus.” David George reveled in his stint with the Organic. “The theatrical life was a good as being a rock star,” he en- Cordis Fejer thused. “A lot of theater people would like to be musicians as Sargon and a lot of musicians would like to be theater people. Basically with both you’re moving large crowds, making them happy or sad or whatever. It gives you a great sense Tom Towles Cecil O’Neal of power.” as Prince Chaos as Lord Cumulus Describing his stage credit, he said, “I created a spe- cial effects company (I’m not really sure why) and Flying Frog Enterprises was the original company. Actually, in retrospect, I did have people helping me… working with lasers and Theremin, things a little beyond my , and they became part of Flying Frog.” Where did the moniker William J. Norris come from? “By the time I got to New York,” David George as Symax explained, “I found that there already was a David Gordon in the Actors’ Guild, so I decided to be the Flying Frog. My friend, André DeShields, and I would periodically go to a restaurant in Chicago called the Flying Frenchman and, one night after drinking a lot, we decided Flying Frog was a good name for me. (There’s actually a line in [the film] Mc- Cabe & Mrs. Miller, ‘If a frog had wings, it wouldn’t bump his ass on the ground so much.’)” The Surrogate: Asked to describe what a theatrical director does exactly, Gordon answered, “Well, it’s hard to describe. I think that the director often stands in for the audience and you’re trying to tell a story and the director says, ‘You know, I’m not getting this part of the story. It’s not coming through.’ Or sometimes literally he can’t see you because you’re standing behind another actor or scenery TM & © Stuart Gordon Lenny Kleinfeld. Warp

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 25 or whatever. I think the director’s job is to take the script and bring it to fun.”) life.” By spring 1972, what took a toll on the lead actor were the arduous Brother David George believes Stuart, who recently adapted his cult action sequences. “We had no physical coaches or fight captains and I horror classic as a musical production to great success, has talents probably had five stage fights per a performance,” said O’Neal, “where most effective when used for the stage. “My brother is actually a brilliant I was doing back rolls, handsprings, and falls… Physically, it was really director of live theater,” he said. “To tell you the truth, I think that’s where demanding. One night I was doing a movement sequence where I had to he best connects with his audience. Re-Animator: The Musical I actually do a couple of handsprings and take a fall behind a scrim, so that part was enjoyed more than the movie. He completely gets that the audience has done in shadow. I hit the stage and almost blacked-out from pain. And then the hair standing on the backs of their necks. He really uses creativity and I was fine. But a similar thing happened a few days later and it happened a imagination — and playing — to great advantage.” couple more times. One night it happened and the next morning I couldn’t The younger brother was impressed with the writing. “I really have get out of bed. I had a herniated disk and pinched nerves in my back, and I to credit Lenny Kleinfeld for working on some really beautiful scripts,” wound up spending something like ten days in traction in a hospital. Then he said. “There are lines in that show that I still quote today. When Lord I tried to return and my back just wouldn’t take it. So, at that point, I had to Cumulus first meets Prince Chaos, Chaos says, ‘I am Chaos, king of the very sadly leave the company and the production. We were in rehearsal universe’ (or whatever), and Cumulus says, ‘I am not impressed,’ and Cha- for Episode Three, so there was quite a workload — performing during the os replies, ‘Serves well enough to keep the natives in line.’ There’s a line night and rehearsing during the day.” from André DeShields playing Xander, who says, ‘I’m amazed to hear such The loss of O’Neal as Cumulus put the production in dire need of a new braggadocio squeeze itself from the mouth of such a worm.’ It’s almost like leading man, one with the looks and stamina to step into the role of Lord Shakespeare!” Cumulus. Cordis Fejer, who played both Sargon and Penny Smart, suggest- O’Neal — whose favorite line is “’Here I stand, once again, before the ed her younger brother. portals of my fate,’” adding, “It’s a riff on ‘Casey Jones,’ and for years I’ve Heard by Happenstance: John Heard, who after Warp would go onto suc- had that in my head” — doesn’t recall simultaneously remembering lines cess in film and television (featured in innumerable productions, including from three plays as being that challenging. “The text was not difficult to The Sopranos, Big, and The Trip to Bountiful, though best known perhaps learn,” he shared. “People not in the theater often say, ‘My god, how do as the father in the first two Home Alone movies), started acting as a you remember all those words?’ But, with a few exceptions, unless you’re child because his mother was active in community theater. Attributing his doing King Lear, that’s really not the hardest part of acting. The most breaks as an actor to luck, Heard continued on stage through high school difficult part was the backstage choreography. There were so many quick and into college, where he became involved in experimental theater. “It all scene changes and so many places we had to get off and get around to just kind of came together, instead of being in the classical drama society make a new entrance somewhere else. And when we weren’t on stage, plays,” he said. we were making sound effects or playing musical instruments… all of The thespian explained how he came to Warp in the middle of its that was a lot to get embedded in your .” (Nor did Heard find learning Chicago run. “What happened,” he explained, “was my grandfather died three plays at once off putting. “No, that wasn’t hard,” he said. “That was and my sister Cordis came home, and she was involved with Warp and the

This spread: Neal Adams character designs for the Broadway production of Warp. From left, Lugulbanda,

Sargon, Lord Cumulus, Warp TM & © Stuart Gordon Lenny Kleinfeld. Prince Chaos, Symax, and Valaria, the Insect Queen.

26 #10 • Fall 2015 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR them, would be rather out there.” I essentially designed the thing to come to Broadway with some really Gluck recalls the comic book artist’s contribution and was impressed new ideas.” with the rendering, though concerned about the execution as wearable For some in the crew, the involvement of such a remarkable talent was designs. “Neal Adams is a wonderful illustrator,” she said, “and I think invigorating. “You had the same feeling with Neal as you had with Stuart he had a sense of what science fiction looks like. He never knew a thing Gordon,” Fortier said. “All of the sudden, there was this perfect stranger about the way to construct a wearable garment, but he would do all these who you hadn’t read about in the newspapers and you realize when you pictures that were gorgeous. And then Stuart and the rest of them would meet him that there’s this whole scene that’s galvanized around him filled want me to reproduce that in costuming because they didn’t have any with creativity and energy, like a dynamo for a whole area of creation.” idea how you get, for instance, those two little lightning bolts to be right The man also socialized with the company. “I got to know the guys,” over her nipples, and stuff like that. It really takes a lot of material and Adams shared. “Everybody in the crew was great. We had them up to our tooling and structural know-how, all of which I learned because I had to. house. At the time, we had a nice apartment in the Bronx. The guys were But it didn’t come from Neal Adams. It’s almost as though he stretched it used to living in these hotels, so we’d bring them up for dinner. André by calling for things that were difficult to construct. I mean, he stretched it DeShields would bring extra dishes — he was a charming guest… what and then we scrambled to materialize it.” a great guy. We had everyone around the dining room table, we all had a Regarding both creatives, David George Gordon said, “Cookie’s de- big dinner with home-cooked food, and it was good for them. It was really signs were very much Cookie’s. They had macramé in them, for example, nice. They got to relax. We had them up a bunch of times.” that she did herself. They worked; they were really good, but instead of Tubular Hell: Jerry Fortier revealed that a special effect he had de- having, for instance, Sargon wearing a leather outfit, she was now wear- vised was tested with terrifying results during rehearsal. “It was actually ing brass breastplates. Neal did a lot of work based more on the genre.” my idea to get this big, Plexiglas tube and it was about eight feet tall and Art Director Adams: The artist, not being a card-carrying member of maybe three feet across. This tube comes down over Lord Cumulus and, any union, was given the catch-all credit of art director and, indeed, he from an opening in the stage, a fog machine fills the tube with ‘poison’ gas contributed to more than just the clothing. “Not only did I design the cos- — Cumulus is gassed by Chaos. At the very first rehearsal and the tech tumes,” Adams said, “but I also designed the stage and the sets.” run-through, they pumped in too much fog, with John Heard, who was in Having to follow union protocol could be frustrating for Adams. “Un- costume in the tube. He totally got scared sh*t-less and was freaked-out

fortunately, the unions said that there had to be a union stage designer. It by the super-thick, oily fog. It probably wouldn’t have really killed him, but Warp TM & © Stuart Gordon Lenny Kleinfeld. didn’t matter that I had already designed it, he said. “I had designed the he started leaping, trying to grab the top edge of the tube eight feet up! It stage that had a lip and it was sharp, so it basically looked like an oval. The was the most scary, pathetic moment in the theater to be watching this stage designer redesigned it so it was [less] thick, so it looked a little bit happening, especially it being my stupid idea! It was just terrible, just aw- like a space ship. And that was my first discovery of what it’s like to work ful. I felt so bad… it was dramatically very effective! It had cost a helluva with other people who had no brains.” lot of money and they just figured out how to minimize the fog. They just Adams also contributed to the scenery with background paintings, went in too gung-ho the first time.” illustrated slides, and lighting effect suggestions. “Then I did the poster, Answering a written inquiry about the incident, actor Heard said, which you’ve seen a million times,” he said, “which everybody seems to “Your tube question was a response to ‘How are we going to mount this think is cool. And it was put up all around town. Then I started to do the on the Broadway stage and fill the stage?’ We were in a tiny little place drawings for Playbill and had a different [cover] drawing for each episode. in Chicago and the audience was sitting almost semi-circular around the

30 #10 • Fall 2015 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR Back in the mid-’80s, I discovered Peter Bagge’s work at Newbury Comics in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The first issue of Neat Stuff had been beckoning to be purchased for more than a few visits, with the cover’s cartoon mesmerist beseeching me with his hypnotic gaze. But I held out, instead buying an Arthur Adams annual featuring Marvel properties I didn’t give a hoot about or the latest Reid Fleming, World’s Toughest Milkman, starring a character who actually was interesting. But, after a summer’s resistance, I caved. Bagge had me... for life. Initially I wavered because of the seemingly crude art, but Peter’s writing pulled it all together for me to recognize that, whether depicting or Margaret Sanger, his is a truly remarkable and original body of work, some of the best comics ever. I’ve also been impressed with Peter’s moxie to keep an eye on the ball. I first met the cartoonist on his 1993 Hateball tour with Daniel Clowes. It was in a dingy second-floor record shop near Brown University. I came with pal Les Daniels and, with few others paying attention to the visiting creators, I had my Neat Stuffs and Eightballs signed and prattled on to the pair, mostly about my love for the Bagge oeuvre. Clowes listened patiently but I recall Bagge cutting me off and (not unkindly) prodding me with, “Are you gonna buy something, or what?” It had been, after all, not a great day of sales for the two. The impact on me was lasting. Bagge means business. The majority of the following interview was conducted over marathon phone sessions a number of years ago and once over lunch during MOCCA, enlightening conversations I enjoyed enormously. This transcript came close to being the centerpiece of the seventh issue of Comic Book Artist, Vol. 2 — Peter had provided the cover in 2006 — but that “final” edition wasn’t meant to be. I’m grateful to the artist for his patience, understanding, and help. It’s taken quite a spell. The cartoonist and I last met at this year’s Comic-Con International:

San Diego, where he indulged my wonky concept for a photoshoot. Peter Bagge portrait © 2015 Kendall Whitehouse. He was also having a surprisingly profitable show despite being tucked in a corner of Artists Alley. When I sat with the guy, a steady stream of aficionados were picking up commissions or buying stuff, amid amiable chit-chat. I was delighted to purchase a piece myself. It was gratifying to . One of the greatest comic book creators of his generation was, be it sales or adulation, effortlessly doing well. Peter Christian Bagge was having a very good day.

40 #10 • Fall 2015 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR A career-spanning conversation with the brilliant cartoonist behind Hate and a whole lotta Neat Stuff… Comic Book Creator: How do you pronounce your last name, Peter? CBC: What did your father do? Peter Bagge: “Bag,” as in “paper bag.” People usually pronounce the Peter: He was an officer in the Air National Guard and hated every “e” at the end, like “baggie.” It’s Swedish in origin. minute of it. Unfortunately, my father was never really CBC: Does the name mean anything? clear about what he wanted to do with his life, which Peter: I asked lots of people if the name is one of the many reasons why he always seemed had a meaning and nobody was sure, except very bitter and frustrated. He had been drafted into that they said that it’s very similar to the word World War II, but didn’t see any action, so when the for a ram, or male sheep. I’ve also read that Korean War was kicking up, he was eligible for the it’s an Old English name for a bag maker! draft yet again. And here he was married and want- CBC: You said your father had an English ed to start a family, and had an okay job as an office background? clerk on Wall Street, so the idea of getting hauled Peter: My great-grandfather emigrated from off to Korea terrified him. One of my uncles was in Manchester, England. He was extremely am- the Air National Guard Reserves, and he suggested bitious and eventually started an architectural my dad join the Guard for as long as the war lasts, firm, even though he had no formal training. to keep out of the draft. So my father joined the Air His firm, Neville & Bagge, was more like a land National Guard as a form of legal draft-dodging. speculation and development business than Once the war was over, he looked into what else anything else. Anyhow, he became a millionaire he could do, but nothing else paid quite as well, from this racket and employed all four of his or the benefits weren’t quite as good. And the Air sons, including my grandfather, until the Depres- National Guard was based in Westchester County sion hit and the firm was wiped out. — my parents were both from there — which CBC: What was your mother’s background? meant not having to go into the city. So he stuck Peter: Well, on my mom’s mother’s side, they go it out for a while as an enlisted man, working way, way back. She even joined the Daughters of part-time at a record store and going to officer’s the American Revolution at one point, but quit al- school at night, so that by the time he retired he most immediately because they were such stuck- worked his way up to a colonel. He was just a up bigots. But my mother’s father was an immigrant paper-pusher, to be honest. An office manager from Denmark, and worked as a chauffeur for the in a fancy uniform. Rockefellers. CBC: Had he had a college education? CBC: That is impressive. Did they tip well? Peter: When he was in high school, my father Peter: He seemed well taken care of. My mother met had a very good short-term memory, so he always the Old Man — John D. Rockefeller, the first — lots got straight A’s. He had this inflated opinion of him- of times when she was a little girl. If my grandfather self as a genius just because he aced everything. was driving him around and he spied a bunch of kids He never had to study or work very hard to get an A; playing, including my mom and her brothers, he would it just came really easy to him. But once in college have my grandfather stop, get out and open the door he struggled just to get a C. He suddenly wasn’t a to the backseat. He’d then make the kids hop into genius anymore, so he dropped out. His ego was the limo with him one at a time, and he would hand wounded. each one a shiny new dime (which, in the ’30s, wasn’t CBC: You said he was bitter? chump change.) It was apparently terrifying for the Peter: Yeah. He could be a very difficult person to kids, because Rockefeller looked just like Mr. Burns deal with. Very moody and short-tempered. from The Simpsons. He was real thin and covered in CBC: Did your father drink? liver spots, and he was probably in his 90s by then. Peter: Oh, yeah. Both my parents did. My dad was My mother says it was a horrifying experience, an angry drunk, too. My mom is a real sweetheart, but sitting in the back of a dark limo all alone with the she was… [pauses] Crypt Keeper, but it was worth the dime. Apparently CBC: An enabler? some PR firm advised him to do this so he wouldn’t Peter: Yeah, I guess. Everybody that met my ma just come off as so miserly. loves her to death. She could be the sweetest, kindest CBC: Was your mother’s family solid middle class? person in the world, but she’s a real space case. My Peter: More like comfortable working class. My grandfa- parents were very much like [TV sitcom All in the Family ther had a lot of sh*t jobs before he landed that one, so he was extremely characters] Archie and Edith . My ma was a real “Edith,” always

Buddy Bradley, Neat Stuff , and Hate TM & © Peter Bagge. Buddy Bradley, appreciative towards the Rockefellers. wanting everyone to make nice. She hated conflict, which my father was

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 41 I can’t stand it anymore.” I couldn’t stand breaking up my Sundays and missing [New York children’s TV game show] Wonderama just to go and listen to all that convoluted, hateful bullsh*t. It wasn’t like I wanted to learn about or experience other faiths, either. I was and remain a hopeless agnostic. I don’t have a spiritual bone in my body. CBC: It retrospect, did it seem like an alcoholic house- hold? Peter: Oh, yes, it definitely was. My parents always drank somewhat, but by the time we were all in high school, their inability or willingness to cope kept diminishing, and they turned more to drinking. Booze and TV, that was their life. Neither ever helped us with school or homework – my ma just watched the soaps all day and my dad watched the Mets at night. They had five kids in seven years, so we all moved out of the house, in pretty short order, which made life a lot easier for my parents. My father was also able to retire fairly early. They moved to , bought a condo on the Above: A 1987 snapshot of the always providing in spades. But she was also quite helpless water, and by then they seemed okay. The pressure was Bagge men, taken in Peter and and dependent on others. She awas utterly dependent on off. Still, y’know, I wouldn’t say they were happy; it still took Joanne’s backyard in . my dad, and later on the various men she dated until they very little to get my dad all pissed off. Left to right, Mr. Bagge, Peter, died off, one by one. She never mourned any of them once My father once got so mad watching the news and Peter’s younger brother Tony they passed away, either — including my father! She’d just hearing [U.S. Senator] Ted Kennedy talk about something or and older brother Doug, the move on to the next one, and eventually became utterly other (my dad was a Republican) that he wrote Kennedy a latter who would contribute to dependent on my younger sister. letter. He typed it up and showed it to me. I said, “Dad! You the short-lived Comical Funnies CBC: Did they stay married? can’t send this!” It was practically a death threat! “When at the behest of Peter. Below: Peter: Yes, they stayed together, but it got really grim. those crazies shot your brothers, they shot the wrong one!” The battling Bradleys, Peter They both got really depressed, with endless money prob- Bagge’s outrageously dysfunc- CBC: Where do you stand in the lineup of the Bagge kids? lems. It seemed like they were sh*t-magnets, but it was Peter: I’m the second. Well, I’m the oldest now, since my tional middle-class cartoon because they always let things happen to them. Rather than family creation, first appeared older brother passed away, so now there’s me, two sisters, foreseeing problems down the road and acting accordingly, in Comical Funnies, the New and the youngest is my other brother. My two sisters and I Photo and The Bradleys TM & © Peter Bagge. York City tabloid that lasted for they would do nothing to avoid trouble. They just let life were like Irish triplets, all born a year apart of one another. three issues between 1980–81. happen to them, something I swore I would never do when My little brother is five years younger than me. Edited by Punk magazine I grew up. It was the same with having five kids. They didn’t CBC: Were there any creative streaks in either your legend and want five kids, but they didn’t do what it takes to avoid it, siblings or your parents? Peter Bagge, both late of the either. Peter: Yes, my older brother Doug was very creative School of Visual Arts, along CBC: Were they Catholic? and spontaneous, a real natural cartoonist. Without even with Bruce Carlton and J.D. Peter: Obviously! But that’s another strange thing — and trying that hard or honing his craft, he was just one of those King, Comical Funnies would it also goes to show how passive my parents were — is people who had a gift. He sorta reminded me of someone also feature other early Bagge that my mother grew up Protestant, though she was not like [The Simpsons’ creator] , how he’d just creations Studs Kirby and very religious. She couldn’t even recall what denomination sit down and do a drawing and everybody’d be immediately Junior. The Bagge art here was she was as a kid, it meant so little to her. She just remem- charmed and amused by it. used as the wraparound cover bers vaguely enjoying Sunday school and stuff like that. My brother and I would make our own funny pages, for The Bradleys, collecting Meanwhile, my father’s father was a lapsed Episcopalian, fake Sunday supplements. Doug would draw a comic the Neat Stuff strips [1989]. but his mother was half-Irish and very Catholic. She pushed and then I would draw one. We’d even make our All courtesy of to have all us grandkids raised Catholic and, since Peter Bagge. own newspaper. It was called The Daily Snortster. nobody was pushing back, we were raised My brother invented this whole little country Catholic. called Philberville. It was like this island off of CBC: Did you go to confession? New Jersey Peter: Yeah, we did all that twisted, coast meaningless nonsense. By the time I was 13, I told my parents, “I don’t believe a word of this.

42 #10 • Fall 2015 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR so there are some parallels. Buddy was always ten years younger than me, and even though on the surface a lot of things are different his life very much did parallel mine. CBC: Does your brother Doug play a role in Buddy’s personality? Peter: Mmmm, not so much, really… One thing that was horrifying, however, was, in the later full-color issues of Hate, I had Pops Bradley suddenly die. Right after that, my dad suddenly died. So it was life imitating art. Then I had Stinky, whose life was unraveling and he reaches a point where he commits an “accidental” suicide — as did my brother, right afterwards! It really made me think twice about killing anyone else off! By the way, Stinky’s death didn’t come across as clearly as I had thought it would. I thought I foreshadowed his death better than I did, so I didn’t expect it to be a complete shock to readers. While his death wasn’t a deliberate sui- cide, he was so indifferent about life, he was willing to play Russian roulette. If you want to live a long, healthy life, you don’t mess around like that. CBC: Is Christine more like Babs Bradley than Barbara? Peter: No. Babs was vaguely based on my sister Barbara, when Barb was an adolescent (hence the name “Babs”). They shared a similar temperament, and Barbara was a classic example of a girl going through her “awkward years” when she was 13 or so. She was dramatic and rebellious, always fighting with our mom over every little goddamned thing. “You’re not wearing that halter top to school!” “Oh yeah? Try and stop me!” Real typical mother/ daughter crap. The big difference, though, is that Babs Bradley is a bit of a dumbass, while my sister is very smart, obviously. [laughter] My other sister, Christine, is married to a contractor, and they live in this 250-year-old farmhouse that they’ve fixed up in the Catskills. She’s got three kids, and is a stay-at-home mom, for the most part, although she’s an artist, too. For a while she was doing architectural renderings, where an architect would design a building, and then she would do a line drawing and/or watercolor picture of what the building would look like once it was built. She would do the same for real estate agents, drawing houses for sale for their listings. CBC: What do your siblings think of your accomplish- ments? more thoughtful, too, in that unless you get everyone to sign Above: Finally the cartooning Peter: None of them really comment on it much, unless I off on how they’re portrayed you’re really just using them excellence of Peter Bagge ask them to. “Did you read this? Did you like it?” “Oh, yeah, in a way. My wife is also a particularly private person. She would be widely recognized that one was pretty good.” That’s it! [laughter] never objects when she makes a cameo appearance in one through his anthology series CBC: Do you think they’re lying? of my comics, but she’s never too excited about it either. It Neat Stuff, which lasted for Peter: No, they mean it, but you’d think they’d have a lot makes her a little uneasy. 15 issues between 1985–89. more to say about the Bradleys, since so much of it was I have no urge or need to confess like Crumb or Joe Though the mag would feature inspired by our family. I would even point out a story to, Matt does. Crumb is extremely confessional, yet with both a good number of developed say, my brother, and go, “That character did the same thing Matt and Crumb and a lot of other auto-bio comics, there’s characters, it would be Buddy you did way back when, remember?” And Tony would go: a strong exhibitionistic streak behind it as well. They’re Bradley who would become “Yeah, I noticed.” I’m like, “Are you flattered? Insulted? Do simultaneously confessing their sins and bragging about the ostensible star of the you even care?” He’d be the latter. “Why should I care?” it. “Look at what I just did! I am one sick puppy! What’s to black-&-white comic book. [laughter] They’re shockingly indifferent about my work. be done with me? Wheeee!” Drew Friedman’s dad, Bruce Below: Video Games magazine CBC: Did you ever think about doing a flat-out autobi- J. Friedman, did something similar in his Harry Townes featured Bagge work, including ographical comic book? novels (which Woody Allen shamelessly ripped of in his a one-pager starring The Video Peter: No. There’s no reason for it. Plus that’s a real sticky Deconstructing Harry movie, in my opinion), where he Kid and gag panels. wicket! I do make cameo appearances, and occa- sionally do short pieces that are purely auto-bio, but to do something more involved, well, you’re never just writing about your- self. You’re also dragging your family and friends into it, and they might not remember things the same as you, or want that aspect of their lives talked about at all. It’s so much simpler

and The Video Kid TM & © Peter Bagge. Neat Stuff and The Video to fictionalize things. It’s

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 51 couldn’t stand her — mainly because she’d remind them of someone who’s caused them a lot of trouble and misery in their lives. She reminded a lot of the guys of their crazy ex’s. CBC: So you don’t see any fundamental difference be- tween the genders in terms of behavior? Peter: Well, sure, but not a lot. But ever since the inven- tion of the [birth control] pill, even the biological differences aren’t quite as great as they used to be. You know, it’s much easier for a woman to be “one of the guys” now. The Pill and other forms of birth control is what really liberated women, in that it truly freed them to live their lives as they pleased, and where no longer bogged down by unintended pregnancies. In countries where birth control is still unac- ceptable, such as in the beautiful Muslim world, [laughs] men and women are completely segregated. And, as a this new proposition, Stop, that was out of the question. result, the sexes seem totally different. In this country, too, Above: The title’s characters prior to the ’60s, day-to-day life was far more segregated There was no chance of doing anything that was more than a page, and I wasn’t gonna reach into my own pocket spell out Hate, from #5 [Sum- along gender lines. mer 1991]. Below: Detail from CBC: You say you just simply put your feet in the shoes to pay for that, so I opted out of our informal publishing partnership. They were nice enough to run a one-page strip the cover of Hey, Buddy! [1993], of a female character, and that’s how you do it. But a good the first Hate collection. number of cartoonists often have just extremely unrealistic of my own in each issue, but they really only wanted “Studs female characters. Kirby.” I begged them once to run something Peter: Yeah, they’re called super-hero artists. [laughter] else by me, but after that it seemed futile Well, I think that, for the most part, is one of the big dif- to do anything but “Studs” for ferences between alternative cartoonists and super-hero them. comic book artists. When I was going to SVA, most of the CBC: What was cartoonists I knew wanted to be super-hero artists, the format of and a lot of them had a real hard time incorporating Comical Fun- female characters in their work. In life drawing nies? It was classes, their efforts were laughable, since they’d maga- make the model look so stiff and wooden. But then there were the more macho Frazetta-wan- nabe types, who were the exact opposite, in that they made all their women look über-sexy and idealized. CBC: How long did Comical Funnies last? Peter: We just put out three issues. Though after J.D. King saw the first issue, became fully involved, as much as Holstrom and me. CBC: Who was J.D. King? Peter: He’s a cartoonist. [laughs] Well, now he’s an illustrator. I was thrilled to have him, because I absolutely adored his drawing style. I loved the way he drew. He also was very knowledgeable about pop culture and all, but there was also an awful lot of “kid” still stuck in him. He was a lot like Holmstrom in that way, so not surprisingly those two agreed on everything, and I found myself zine-sized? constantly getting outvoted. Peter: Comical After three issues of Comical Funnies was done in This page: Peter Bagge’s Funnies, Holmstrom and J.D. decided they a newspaper format, just like Buddy Bradley might be the wanted to change the name and format, and . [laughs] It most sharply defined character they came up with this idea for a maga- was quarter-folded. It was folded in comics history and perhaps zine called Stop. It still was newsprint, twice so when it was stocked on the the most put-upon. Essayist but was a magazine-sized format. It newsstand, it would be magazine-sized, Bob Mackey, writing about the definitely looked nicer, and had a 8.5" by 11". But then you’d open it up, and character in an online piece for better, snappier name, but it was then open it up again. gamespite.net puts it smartly: more of a fanzine, and not really a CBC: How many pages? “It would be easy for Bagge to vilify Buddy, but instead the comic book at all. They wanted to Peter: It varied. The first issue was I think 24 cartoonist’s alter ego is rather have articles and reviews mixed pages, and the last was maybe 36. CBC: And you were in every issue of Comical sympathetic. He’s very real, in with the comics. And, for me, very flawed, and ultimately Funnies? the whole point of doing Comical powerless in the face of being Funnies was not only to see my own Peter: Oh, yeah. I was the most prolific of the peed on so many times by work in print, but also so I could bunch, so I’d take up a third or a quarter of the the universe. Reading Hate finally do something that was more whole thing. I hogged up that sucker as much as I is an exercise in vicariously than a single page long. To get my could with my amateurish scrawlings. experiencing the joy of minor work printed elsewhere, in Screw or CBC: John Holmstrom did some strips, as well? achievements and the ambiva- High Times or wherever, I was lucky to get Peter: Yes, we all did comic strips. And that lent grumbling of loserdom — even a full-page strip printed, and I really was still the case with Stop, but I thought it and really, isn’t that what life’s was so odd that a bunch of cartoonists were all about?”

Hate and Buddy Bradley TM & © Peter Bagge. wanted to try my hand at longer stories. With

Comic Book Creator • Fall 2015 • #10 57 Also in this ish: THE NIGHT BROADWDWWAAAYY WENT TOTTALALLLYY COSMIC!

A TwoMorrows Publication No. 10, Fall 2015

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COMIC BOOK CREATOR #10 The Broadway sci-fi epic WARP examined! Interviews with art di- rector NEAL ADAMS, director STUART (Reanimator) GORDON, playwright LENNY KLEINFELD, stage manager DAVID GOR- DON, and a look at Warp’s 1980s series! Plus: an interview with PETER (Hate!) BAGGE, our RICH BUCKLER inter- view Part One, GIANT WHAM-O COMICS, and the conclusion of our STAN GOLDBERG interview! (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $8.95 (Digital Edition) $3.95 http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=98_132&products_id=1211

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