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YQeof B^gf_^ Bbp^f[ j^glofqv fk ma^FZgZmZ LZkmr, Gc ma^r elkbpqv* grpqf`b bq`, A^k eb bumb`q ^``bmq pl`f^ifpj qebk qebv tfii e^sb grpqf`b9 `^k eb bumb`q elkbpqv ^ka ql `e^kdbqebbkqfobpqor`qroblcmi^k+ `^k eb bumb`q pfk`bofqv= Rebob ^ob kfkd, Gkbnr^ifqv `^kklq _b ^_lifpeba s^oflrp moldo^jjbp _bclob qeb `lrk+ _v dfsfkdpljb^ijp qlqebmllo ^ka qovÜqebob fp i^t ^ka loabo mol_ibj dr^o^kqbbfkd dlla molcfq ql qeb fk+ ebob, ?p pq^qba _v pljb lc qeb Kbj+ arpqof^ifpqp, Ni^k e^p bkproba ^ c^fo _bop ebob* tb ^ob ebob ql afp`rpp qeb obqrok ql fkarpqof^ifpqp _rq ^q qeb i^t ^ka loabo mol_ibj _b`^rpb qefp p^jb qfjb qebob fp kl dr^o^kqbb lc fp ^ pq^qb pr_gb`q, J^t ^ka loabo Äobjrkbo^qfsb mof`bp lo kbba+_^pba mol_ibj fp ^cqbo ^ii ^ mol_ibj tef`e t^dbp ql qeb ^dof`riqro^i i^_lro lo qeb orifkd H^k^q^ N^oqv e^p ql c^`b, qeb tlohfkd `i^pp, Reb mobpbkq Ll Alkcfabk`b Klqflk fp ^ t^okfkd ql Reb orifkd m^oqv jrpq e^sb lkb qeb H^k^q^ Elsbokjbkq, Rebv tfii mlifqf`^i ^mmol^`e fk bsbov Qq^qb, Gk e^sb ql `e^kdb bsbovqefkd, G ^j lkbQq^qb qebv prmmloqqeb _^`ht^oa bumobppfkd qefp t^okfkd lk _be^ic lc `i^ppbp9 fk^klqeboQq^qbqebv prmmloq jv m^oqv, qeb p`ebariba `^pqbp ^ka vbq fk ^kl+ qebob Qq^qb lkb pb`qflk lc qeb m^oqv prmmloqp qeb efdebo `i^pp tebob^p qeb RFC NPGKC KGLGQRCP &QFPG lqebo pb`qflk lc qeb m^oqv prmmloqp KMP?PHG BCQ?G'8 Ko, Qmb^hbo* Qfo* _^`ht^oa `i^ppbp, Gc qeb m^oqv qofbp G e^sb _bbk m^qfbkqiv eb^ofkd ^ii qe^q ql afsfab lo_fcro`^qb qeb s^oflrp pb`+ e^p _bbk p^fa _v qeb Jb^abo lc qeb qflkp lo s^oflrp `ljjrkfqfbp lk `^pqb Mmmlpfqflk ^ka ^ii lqebop tel e^sb ifkbp fq tfii klq _b mlppf_ib clo qebj pmlhbk fk prmmloq lc qeb Ll Alkcf+ ql fjmibjbkq ^kv mlpfqfsb ab`fpflk, abk`b Klqflk jlsba _v qeb Jb^abo lc qeb Mmmlpfqflk, Ko, Qmb^hbo* Qfo* q^hb qeb nrbpqflk lc bar`^qflk, Reb mobsflrp orifkd m^oqv _^pba fqp bar`^qflk mlif`v lk G qelrdeq G tlria _bkbcfq _v te^q Ilqe^of Aljjfppflk, Reb H^k^q^ eb p^fa ^ka qe^q fq tlria ebim N^oqv e^p ^ipl _^pba fqp bar`^qflk Elsbokjbkq fk ob`qfcvfkd jfpq^hbp mlif`v lk Ilqe^of Aljjfppflk, Reb tef`e obnrfoba ql _b ob`qfcfba, Reb mobsflrp Elsbokjbkq obifba lk qeb Mmmlpfqflk e^p ^ ofdeq lc jlsfkd Ll ?dof`riqro^i Nof`bp Aljjfppflk qeb Alkcfabk`b KlqflkpÜtebqebo qebv al H^k^q^ Elsbokjbkq fp ^ipl alfkd qeb fq obpmlkpf_iv lo foobpmlkpf_iv fq fp p^jb qefkd, Ql* jv mlfkq fp qe^q qeb qebfo _rpfkbpp, Gq fp klq clo jb ql H^k^q^ N^oqv fp qovfkd ql`lkqfkrb qeb gradb, Gq fp klq clo jb ql l_gb`q ql b`lkljf` mlif`fbp lc qeb Gkafo^ fq, Re^q fp tev G tbi`ljba fq fjjb+ E^kaef Elsbokjbkq, Gkafo^ E^kaef af^qbiv ^ka p^fa* ibq fq _b afp`rppba `^jb lrq tfqe ^ 0.+mlfkq moldo^jjb, fjjbaf^qbiv, @rq qebk G eb^oa kl+ Reb H^k^q^ N^oqv e^p `ljb lrq tfqe qefkd klt G e^sb _bbk eb^ofkd ^ii ^ jfkfjrj kbba+_^pba moldo^jjb qebpb qefkdp bsbo pfk`b qefp Elsbok+ lc 5 mlfkqp, Reb mlfkqp ^ob qeb p^jb, jbkq ^pprjbalccf`b, &Kv afccbobk`b fp qe^q qebv ab`i^oba qe^q qebv tfii fjmibjbkq qebj sfdl+ olrpiv, Rebv `lria klq fjmibjbkq fq Reb p^jb qefkdp ^ob _bfkd obmb^q+ balsbo^ka lsbo^d^fkcoljqeb sbov sfdlolrpiv, Rebk tebob ifbp ^kv afc+ _bdfkkfkd, G `^k molsb fq _v ob`loap cbobk`b, fcqebv t^kq ql e^sb ^kv mollc, Gq fp Rebobclob* Ko, Qmb^hbo* G ^j t^o+ qebob fc ^kv_lav t^kqp ql pbb qeb kfkd qefp H^k^q^ Elsbokjbkq, Reb ob`loa, @rqGalklqt^kqqlq^hbqeb H^k^q^N^oqv pq^oqbatfqe ^ pild^k lc qgco

SHRI MORARJI DESAT: It was the SHRI VASANT SATHE: It is a plane which stopped over at Tehran. public matter. It was not done for him. When I had gone earlier, there was also unsche­ SHRI MORARJI DESAI: If any­ duled halt then. It was not for him. thin? prima facie is established, I Whitt is the meaning of saying that would be the first man to prosecute he made an unscheduled flight? He him. I ll No-Confidence MAY 11, 1078 Motion 112

SHRI VASANT SATHE: The Home about them; I am not like them. I do not believe in resorting to such Minister says that there is prima facie case. methods to condemn anybody. But these are matters where if they were SHRI MORARJI DESAI: He has careful, I do not think they would not said that; That is all wrong. He have done what they have done here. has never said so; that is a lie if I cannot compliment them on their anybody says so. performance. What have we done, SBRI A. C. GEORGE; What does lie they ask. Is this not a great change, «ay? the change that has taken place? The change is so remarkable that the SHRI MORARJI DESAI: I am not world knows it. If there is no full going to tell you and oblige you in satisfaction, I can understand. I can­ this matter. My hon. friends depend not say that there is full satisfaction upon Blitz—God help them—a paper nor can I say that full satisfaction which has always been a tissue of can be given in a year in every mat­ lies...(Interruptions) ter. But there is nothing of which we have to be ashamed nor is there SHRI SAUGATA ROY: It was a anything that we have not done question raised in Parliament. which we could have done or that we have failed in doing it. There is no SHRI MORARJI DESAI: I have item on which anybody can say that. known Blitz for the last thirty years and I always treated it with contempt. I do not want to take notice of yellow They cited many things. They cited papers; nor do I want to take notice prices. Are not puces more this of thoae who deal in yellow joutr.u- March than what they were in March lism. I can only sympathise with them last? If they deny the figures what for their want of prudence. But if am I to do? We do not claim that they don’t have it, who am I to give they have one down. If they have to them prudence? I do not want to go down they have to bo stable first. offer any advice m this matter. But And if after ten years record of infla­ this shows on whom the opposition tion every year, barring six months of depends to show that there is no Emergency, we have halted rise in confidence in this government. What prices, is that not some achievement? have thev come to? I thought that they would change by years’ expe­ But why should they admit it? rience and give up their old methods. They, they have to condemn them­ But I find that they are still fond of selves which they are not yet pre­ them. I cannot help them. Who am pared to do. Yes, I know, there are I to say that they should not do so? several hon. Members On the other But if they feci that by this method side who had quietly suffered all they will be able to break the Janata kinds of things during the Emergency Party, they are very much mistaken. and even before. They have now be­ I agree and I would not say that there gun to admit, some in public and is nothing v-’ ong with ui. I will be some in private, that Emergency was the last man to say so; no party can wrong and should not have been claim that there is no difference any­ there. where, in any party. Show me any party, even in England, even in Ame­ rica, even m Germany wherever you They say now that there is no go, you will find differences. There change. Is this a small change that were no open differences during the everybody is free to say what he last few years m their party. But I likes throughout the country? Is it was told of the inner differences that not the greatest change from the were there. I do not want to speak times when we tried to point out the 113 No-Confidence VAISAKHA 21, 1900 (SAKA) Motion

shortcomings of the Government but SHRI MORARJI DESAI: These are were taken away in the darkness of legacies which we have received from night, whisked away somewhere my hon. friend and it is that legacy without letting anybody know where which is making it difficult for this we were taken? Thousands of them Government to get over everything were taken away and crowds were and make faster progress. (Inter­ brought here in lorries and trucks, ruptions) Government military trucks to prove that people had confidence in them. SHRI A. C. GEORGE: Since he men­ AN HON. MEMBER; What about tioned tabout fearlessness, I mention­ the Kisan rally? ed that. An advertisement is put that rupees will be paid in India for (Interruptions) dollars in ‘India A b roa d a magazine published in the United States and SHRI MORARJI DESAI: How can I so many Indians read it. give any sense of shame to people who do not know what shame is? SHRI MORARJI DESAI: They are (Interruptions) How can I give it? sorry that we are undoing the wrongs It is not possible for me to give any that they heaped upon us people. We sense of proportion when there is have not yet been able to remove all none? How am I to do it? wrongs completely and that is our It is my misfortune that I have to misfortune. But the wrongs are so reply to this debate. II is no pleasure many that they cannot be removed for me to have to say these things. I quickly. What we could do quickly, am not happy but I have to reply to we have already done and you see it; otherwise, things will go by de­ the result of it. fault. The change you see is that can go about without let or hinder- There is complete freedom of press, ance, they can say whatever they so much so that what we say may not like. be published but what they say is published with big headlines. I can prove it by production of those news SHRI A. C. GEORGE: May I just papers, if they want to see. say one sentence? The fearlessness had led to one thing in the United SHRI VASANT SATHE: That is States. I may just quote a few lines why the yellow press is there. from ‘India Abroad \ An advertise­ ment has appeared in it and it is this: SHRI MORARJI DESAI: It is not “SERVICES—We deliver rupees the yellow press, yellow press is a in India. Competitive rates—fast very small part of it. A large part of action. Any amount, at any place. it is not yellow press. Then, on the media who is getting publicity? It is Transaction thru banks, Easiest way of doing it—everything done by tele, given to everybody. If at all. they phone. Personalized services, satis­ get more publicity than they deserved faction guaranteed. H. Parikh (Fi­ at any time. Was opposition ever nancial Consultant) Orient Express, heard on media before? Yet they Journal Square. Jersey City.” say there is no change. It has been done for the first time in An advertisement has come that this country, that in the elections the they will make compensatory pay­ Opposition had the facility of speak­ ment. That is where the fearlessness ing on the radio as much as the had led to. This is published in the ruling party. For the first time this United States. (Interruptions) is done.

MR. SPEAKER: You have men­ We are also trying to seo that tioned that. media become independent and do ii$ Wo-frm/Fdence MAY a, i#« Motion it*

tShri Morarji Desai} do that even before; but it was neVetr not remain subservient to Govern­ consulted. Not only that It Was ment. But it requires careful consi­ famed in every possible way. We deration, We had appointed a commit* don’t believe in retaliation. Not only tee. The report has come. We will that. The President has also been elec­ soon take a decision. But to say that ted unanimoustly. (Interruptions) I we have done nothing, has no mean­ don’t say that the credit is not due to ing. you. I say that credit goes to all. SHRI VASANT SATHE: Media has been captured by one organization. SHRI VASANT SATHE: Dr. G. S. SHRI MORARJI DESAI: By whom Dhillon was elected unanimously. has it been captured? The agencies were merged into one in the past SHRI MORARJI DESAI: The Spea­ regime. There was one ‘Samachar’ only; and all were bundled into it, ker was not elected unanimously-^ not m the real sense. Therefore, to and made to do what they liked. All that has been separated and they are say that nothing has happened, is only denying facts. I can say no­ made independent. And we don’t thing more than that. interfere with them in any manner whatsoever, Not only that. I have told the Press; *If you want to have Look at food supplies There is your own arrangement, you must more food available to-day. And have it. I don’t want to nominate any­ those whom I met m Bombay and in body on the press Council. You other cities have said that whenever should look after the Press your­ they wanted things, they get them. selves and regulate it yourselves. If Formerly all those things were not any law is violated, certainly Govern­ available There is now more pro­ ment will step in. But that is only duction Industry is doing better. It when law is violated; and the action has not done enough, I am quite sure. can be taken in a court of law. But But it takes time A year or 13 months for that, we will not interfere in any is not enough to change everything manner whatever.’ I have never asked and bring Heaven in this country. We any Editor or Correspondent to see have never promised that. We don’t me, unless he wanted to come and do it. see me. And there also, I have never said, "You should do this or should There is Education It requires to not do that”. I only say, “You better be changed; but we cannot change it ascertain the facts and write as you by ourselves, as they were doing. We like.” We don’t want to interfere with Want to taken the educationists with the freedom of the Press in any man­ us in this matter. Therefore we are ner. discussing education with those Take the Opposition. Is the Opposi­ who are concerned with it and tion now in the same cramped state trying to come to a consensus in in which it was before? The Leader the same manner as we are doing of the Opposition has been recogniz­ in this House on many matters. That ed fully. And it was for the first is why it takes time. The Consti­ time in history that the speaker and tutional Amendment should have the Deputy Speaker were elected un­ been done much earlier. But we did animously in this House. not want it without taking the oppo­ sition with us, as much ag possible. SHRI VASANT SATHE: The credit We have been able to come to a large goes to the House. measure ot agreement even jn the SHRI MORARJI DESAI: I agree anti-Defections Bill; it is delayed that credit goes to the House. The Op­ because we wanted to cousult the position would have been willing to Opposition so that it has a Smooth tY f No-Conftdence VAISAKHA 21, l&O (SAKA) Motion n # passage and it becomes more effective. from here have a dig at them, all of I must say I was very happy this them get up and ask “what is going morning when in our discussions we on?*’ This is not the way to meet could come to agreed conclusions and arguments (Interruptions) What does reached a consensus. That is why we the hon. Member think he is doing? have to have patience in this matter. He is demonstrating how he inter­ rupts all the while. I have not inter­ If my hon. friends think we can fered with anybody; I have not in­ wash out every wrong thing they did terrupted anybody. This is not the in thirteen months, then I would like way to do it. But they pop up and to say that we have washed out some; down all the while, because that other things still remain to be washed seems to be the only exercise they out. That takes a little time; but it know. If it had been really an exer­ will not take more than a year more cise in dignity with cogent arguments, to wash out the relnaining dirt. I would have been very thankful to them. SHRI VASANT SATHE: Do not wash them in public. As I said before, I welcome this no- SHRI MORARJI DESAI; That is confidence motion, because I am glad left to you. If you want me to do it, that it brings the two factions together. I do not know whether you will be Those who have factions are now talk­ able to stand up to it. This, I ing about factions? In my party know; but it is not my business to where are the factions? Yes, there expose anybody. I have never done are differences of views as my collea­ it and I would not do it. If you gue, Shn , said, it is an come to me privately, I will tell you unprecedented thing in history that what I know, on condition that you five parties, differing from one another do not publish it. But this is not but all believing in democracy, fight­ ing against one another for 30 years, the way to do it. criticising one another, come together voluntarily without any pressure from AN HON. MEMBER: What about anybody, except the pressure of the your secrets? people, who wanted democracy to be saved. Therefore, we came together SHRI MORARJI DESAI: I have no and emerged practically as a new secrets. If I have, let anybody find party, which was not fully formed them. But, somehow, over the years constitutionally in the normal sense, I was close with many of them. So, wins the elections in a I know what they really are. That is striking manner, which opens the eyes how the world is. I do not find fault of the world, but not the eyes of my with them. We all have feet of clay; hon. friends. Those who have eyes, hut everybody has some failing or the do not see—what can I tell them? I other. Who am I to find fault with can lead a blind man, but I cannot them? But they want us to be saints lead a person who can see, but does whereas they want to remain what not want to see. What can I do to they were, 1 think that js not the way them? to increase our capacity or make the Government more effective. And then it was also said by Jagji- vanramji that we are working together. Let there be responsible dignified It does not mean that all our hearts criticism. Criticism can be made, pro* have come together. Therefore, there vided it is made with dignity. When are bound to be some differences, dif­ they go on shouting at those who ferences of opinions and views. That sgoak from here, they do not see any­ is not healthy in my views, I do agree, thing Wrong in It; they say that IS but it is not an unusual phenomenon their rftfht But fehen some people It is natural. It it did not happen, it 119 Wo-C on/Wenc« MAY 11, 1970 Motion j j o

[Shri Morarji Desai] law and order problems, but these an would have been unnatural. We would not problems which only relate to us, not bave lasted. It is because of this they relate to all. 1 do not want to that it will be cemented. go on with this argument. Thu has been happening. And we have got to And I want their factions also to be stop it. We are not able to stop it cemented. Iwant a strong opposi­ much, I agree, but this is also a legacy tion. I do not want a week opposi­ that we have got, and it is not created tion. It is the business of the opposi­ only by those people; these are also tion to show the faults of the Govern­ inherent in the conditions of the coun­ ment, and also try to see that they get try. I do not want to blame anybody the mandate of the people to replace for these things, but these are things the Government in a constitutional which we have got T;o stop. Formerly manner. It is their right. That is these incidents were not published. The what democracy means. And that is Harijans, the tribals and the back­ why I want that they should recognise ward classes had no courage to fight this. it or speak about ft. I am very happy I believe what is happening is that they are able to fight and speak natural in the conditions in which we out today, and that is why when my colleagues here on this side speak very have come together, but that also will settle down. We will not oblige you. strongly about it, I have patience with them, 1 appreciate their feelings. Don’t think that you are likely to come here soon. But if you behave like this, you will never come here But, do my hon. friends want to again. spoil the atmosphere further and not make it better? If they are interest­ I only want that they should be dig- ed in improving the situation and mak­ nifted in what they say, that they ing this country great for the benefit must have more regard for facts and of all of us, this is not the way to go truth, rather than only eagerness to about it. That is all that I can plead attack and make us feel. That way with them. nobody feels anything. I wish they had said something which would have I have nothing to advise them. This made me think. I do not know what is no sermon. It is my business as reply to give because there is nothing Leader of the House to advise them on which I can say anything to them, if necessary, but I know that advice there is nothing which requires any must not be given to anybody who telling. But my hon. friends go on does not want it. One who does that saying what they like. Let them do so. would be stupid. That I learnt when After all. it is they who have to pick I was young, not now. If they say up wisdom, not I. I am trying to pick many things and 1 have got to reply up such wisdom from them, as is to them, they consider it a sermon. therein them. Everybody can have God help them again. Do they expect wisdom I cannot say that there is that I must not say anything which I anybody without any wisdom whatso­ must say to refute what they are say­ ever, I can never say that. I am try­ ing in a wrong manner? If I say that, ing to learn from them. I do not how does it become a sermon. If I want them to learn from me if they say that I want the opposition to be do not want to. strong, would I be giving a sermon? I say that the opposition will be strong On the one side they give me a only if it becomes dignified and discip­ compliment that I am a Gandhian. On lined in the House because it goes out the other side, they depict me as a fool from the House outside and I was or a convenor. That is not the way. simply very unhappy when I was told They bring here cases of oppression, In one argument that this House does terrorism of oppression of Harijans, not represent the conditions in the 121 No-Confidence VAISAKHA 21, 1000 (SAKA) Motion 122 country. Tb« people out side represent who have two ears to hear, let them them. Are we not representatives? hear." Is it not derogatory to the Parliament The Prime Minister, unfortunately, and its authority? This House repre­ does not have the ears to hear what sents the best in the country, what­ was being said here. ever they may be.

SHRI MOHD. SHAPI QURESHI: A question was repeatedly asketfr Nobody said this. why this no-confidence motion was brought forward. Many of the no- SHRI MORARJI DESAI: It was said confidence motions were discussed in here. I will show it from the record. the past. Many Members in this That is not right. It has been said House are witness to that. There is irom the front benches opposite. It one thing absolutely distinct as far has not been said from the back ben­ as this motion and the speeches on this motion are concerned. With the ches. exception of one or two speeches, it SHRI MOHD. SHAFI QURESHI: wil] kindly be noted that the motion Whom is he referring to? sought to rest not on corruption charges and mudslinging but on SHRI MORARJI DESAI: I can tell national issues. Not that there are you but I do not want to name people. no corruption allegation to be made; It is not said by one but by two. If there are quite a number. I do not they did not say it and if they say, want to make any allegation but I they did not say it, I accept it I have have got with me a letter from Shri no difflulty about it. But let them see Shibban Lai Saksena who sent this afterwards what they have said in a to me where he said; hurry without knowing what they are “I have been deeply distressed saying. That also is a malady from »nd pained at the corruption of which we are suffering here. I hope, some of the Ministers in the Central we do not suffer from that malady as Cabinet. I have already given you a result of this no-confidence motion. a chargesheet containing hundred- and-one specific charges again&t..." I am thankful to the hon. Leader of (I do not want to mention name; it the Opposition for making an exhibi­ is here.) “And another chargesheet tion once again of what weaknesses against another Minister. . . ” (I do they are suffering from. If they want to not want to mention. That is there press the no-confidence motion, they in the letter.) are free to do so. But that will not I have got the corruption charges add to ttoe dignity in any way. That with me. I could just read out those is all I have to say. Thank you. charges and could have started mud­ slinging process. But, I believe, the SHRI C. M. STEPHEN (Idukki): Parliament of India, if one can avoid Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am really dis­ it, must not be used for that purpose appointed that in rising to reply, National issues must be raised; there is nothing in the speech made national issues must be projected. by the Prime Minister which I have National issues were projected here. got to reply to. He said only one In the course of the budget dis­ thing that the people who have eyes cussion, every demand was discussed do not care to see, cannot see. After and a sum-total of impression has listening through two days speeches been formed and a sum-total of im­ if the Prime Minister does not see pression has been reflected in this anything that has been said which is House. to be taken note of, I only repeat what Christ said once: "Those who What is it that you heard from have eyes to see, let them see; those here? Congress (I). Congress,