CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 142 Ï NUMBER 112 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 39th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Friday, June 13, 2008 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) Also available on the Parliament of Canada Web Site at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 6923 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, June 13, 2008 The House met at 10 a.m. I want to start by saying that a loan is actually integral to many campaigns. It is facilitatory to a campaign. It enables many campaigns to get up and running when there may not be sufficient funds at the beginning of the campaign. Prayers The dynamic of a campaign varies in regard to candidate, place Ï (1005) and circumstance, but in most campaigns there are a lot of expenses. [English] I am talking first about campaigns for elections to the House of Commons. There are a lot of expenses at the front end of a BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE campaign. I guess that is so in the business world too. Hon. Jay Hill (Secretary of State and Chief Government Whip, CPC): Mr. Speaker, there have been consultations and discussions between all parties. I think if you seek it you may find At the front end of a campaign, there are expenses. Perhaps one unanimous consent for the following motion. I move: has to secure premises for a campaign office or pay cash for election signs and brochures. Deposits are required on telephones or other That, notwithstanding any standing order or usual practice of the House, in relation to Bill C-60, on Monday, June 16, 2008, a member from each recognized party may equipment such as computers and also on leases. At the front end of speak for a period not exceeding 10 minutes, after which time the bill shall be the campaign, there actually is a fair bit of uploading of the deemed read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on National expenses. Defence and the standing committee shall be permitted to meet that day. The Speaker: Does the hon. chief government whip have the Of course, the fundraising for a campaign can happen before the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion? campaign, during the campaign and after the campaign, but the cash Some hon. members: Agreed. need is right at the beginning. Thus, there is the need for such a loan for most campaigns. The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Some hon. members: Agreed. A lot of campaigns will have already fundraised and will have (Motion agreed to) enough money to get going. Some members around here are fortunate enough to have raised enough money before the campaign even starts, keeping in mind that when we seek election to the House of Commons, there are election spending limits. GOVERNMENT ORDERS [English] We all know pretty much what the spending limit is. For most of us, it is in the range of $70,000 or $80,000 per campaign. If a CANADA ELECTIONS ACT candidate has raised that at the beginning, he or she is ready to go, The House resumed from June 12 consideration of the motion but what about those who have not? that Bill C-29, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (accountability with respect to loans), be read the third time and For example, a member of Parliament is supposed to know passed. roughly when an election is coming, and he or she can raise money. Mr. Derek Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River, Lib.): Mr. On the other hand, a candidate who is not an incumbent will often Speaker, we are continuing debate on Bill C-29, which is a bill come in as a nominated candidate for a party that is not holding the that the government has put forward to regulate loans made in riding. Often that person has not had a run-up of one, two, three or political campaigns: elections, leadership contests and nominations. four years in raising money. It is an area that is probably not well understood by most people who do not participate in the political process. It is perhaps There is a conspicuous need in that case. A person who wants to sometimes a little more complicated now than I think it needs to be, run for Parliament for a party that has not held a riding may have a but nonetheless it is an area that does need some regulation. Federal significant cash need at the beginning of a campaign. The only way laws have attempted to do that over the last few years. to bridge that cash need is to borrow the money. 6924 COMMONS DEBATES June 13, 2008 Government Orders Over the past century, that money has come from friends or the question whether it is necessary to impose an actual time limited father-in-law, or banks or other financial institutions, and we have regime. In this case, the bill does that. managed to make do. However, recently there have been suggestions that there have been occasions when these loans have been given or It does something else that in my view is quite insidious and granted and then, at some point after the event, they have been unfair. The legislation says that if a loan is not repaid in a particular forgiven, so that the candidate who borrowed the money never campaign, then the political party under which that person ran must actually had to pay the money back. assume that debt. Ï (1010) Ï (1015) In our electoral system, that might be seen as unfair. I have a very For the average citizen that may sound almost all right and what is extreme example, one that will probably never happen. Let us say the big deal, but if we go down to the riding level, where we have that an individual says he or she is going to run for party A. Party A three, four or five parties running, not each of these parties running tells that individual not to worry, that the party will lend him or her candidates at the local level are smooth-oiled machines. These are the money to get going, and that Mr. X will lend the individual regular Canadians, some of them for the first time embarking on a $50,000. They go through the campaign. When it is over, let us say run for office. that the candidate is unsuccessful and Mr. X says that is okay, it was his obligation to the party and he is forgiving the loan. It is possible that a particular candidate may on his or her own volition, wittingly or unwittingly, borrow a ton of money. The main Let us contrast that situation with another individual who has party may not know about it and the central campaign may not know raised $100 here and there and has worked hard and operated within about it. However, at the end of the time period, and it would be a the rules. It may be seen as quite unfair that a candidate or party has sad comment on the individual, the individual could say, “To heck a rich friend who basically underwrites the whole thing and seems to with it. I'm walking. I'm declaring bankruptcy”, and the main party circumvent what we now have, which is election contribution limits. would be stuck with that debt. That would create a huge liability For an individual, the limit is about $1,100 per person. A $50,000 contingency for all the political parties. loan lent and forgiven obviously circumvents the intent of the election contribution limits that we already have in law. The large political parties, the Liberal Party of Canada, the Conservative Party of Canada, and I think the other parties For some reason, though, notwithstanding that we have made represented in the House have fairly decent financial means. some corrections in the past, the government party here still thinks However, there are other political parties out on the street. Our that these loans are a big problem. It has come back with this Elections Act provides for that. legislation that knocks them down and almost squeezes them out of existence. Those parties are being forced, under this legislation, to play by those same rules. I have a sense that it is unfair to impose that kind of I have to say that most businesses need these types of loans. They a rule on a new or young political party. It could seriously damage it are a part of how our economy operates. A campaign is no different. financially in a circumstance where the main party itself does not Many people have mortgages on their homes, car loans and lines of have control over what its candidates are spending and borrowing. credit. Why would a campaign for the House of Commons or for a There is no provision in our law that would allow that to happen. I leadership not have the same kinds of financial needs? I think they could not conceive of one. do. Therefore, this is a serious problem and I absolutely do not Under our Constitution, people who run for office ought not to be support that. I am going to do everything I can inside the House and prejudiced or handicapped any more than an ordinary citizen out outside, and later, to make sure this provision is not applied. there doing other things, with reasonable constraints. I agree that any legislation which prevents forgiveness of a huge loan that would The next area I want to touch on has to do with the relationship circumvent the election contribution limits should be established.