UNCORRECTED TRANSCRIPT of ORAL EVIDENCE to Be Published As HC 254-Iv
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UNCORRECTED TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL EVIDENCE To be published as HC 254-iv HOUSE OF COMMONS ORAL EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY COMMITTEE CLIMATE: PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING AND POLICY IMPLICATIONS MONDAY 9 SEPTEMBER 2013 DR JAMES RANDERSON and CATHERINE BRAHIC FIONA HARVEY, LEWIS SMITH and RICHARD BLACK Evidence heard in Public Questions 151 - 209 USE OF THE TRANSCRIPT 1. This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee, and copies have been made available by the Vote Office for the use of Members and others. 2. Any public use of, or reference to, the contents should make clear that neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings. 3. Members who receive this for the purpose of correcting questions addressed by them to witnesses are asked to send corrections to the Committee Assistant. 4. Prospective witnesses may receive this in preparation for any written or oral evidence they may in due course give to the Committee. 1 Oral Evidence Taken before the Science and Technology Committee on Monday 9 September 2013 Members present: Andrew Miller (Chair) Stephen Metcalfe Stephen Mosley Sarah Newton Graham Stringer ________________ Examination of Witnesses Witnesses: Dr James Randerson, Assistant National News Editor, environment, science and technology, The Guardian, and Catherine Brahic, News Editor, environment and life sciences, New Scientist, gave evidence. Q151 Chair: Could I welcome our two witnesses and, just for the record, invite them to introduce themselves? Catherine Brahic: I am Catherine Brahic, Environment News Editor at New Scientist. Dr Randerson: I am James Randerson, Assistant National News Editor, which means I sit on The Guardian’s news desk and deal with both print and web, but I have specific responsibility for environment and science news. Q152 Chair: Welcome to both of you. You are both experienced journalists. I know that the world of journalism is not totally isolated in your respective newspapers and publications; you have some cross-over with your colleagues elsewhere. One of the odd things is that, when we announced this inquiry, we found it extremely difficult to get a response from some parts of the media. We proactively invited papers here like The Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail, and eventually they both said no. In a slightly shorter time scale, The Times, The Economist and The Sun either could not send someone along or it was too short notice. Can you speculate on why there is a reluctance on the part of the media to help us solve some of the difficult problems that we are tackling? Dr Randerson: It is a bit hard to comment on the motivations and reluctance of my colleagues in other parts of Fleet Street. It is a pity, because it would be good to hear their point of view on different things. I do not know. Perhaps it was in the box marked “a bit difficult”, but it should not be. Q153 Chair: But the editorial of the Daily Mail is regularly commenting on climate change issues. Why do you think they would not help us? Dr Randerson: Only they can answer that question. Catherine Brahic: I cannot possibly fathom that. I would agree with James that it is a shame and we would have liked to hear their contributions as well, but it is difficult to speculate. 2 Q154 Chair: We would have welcomed their views. What difficulties are there when reporting subjects like climate change compared with other issues? Catherine Brahic: It is an incredibly difficult and complex topic—obviously, New Scientist deals exclusively with science news—compared even with other domains that we cover. The uncertainty issues are also considerable in climate science and can only really be compared with certain biomedical issues. It is also not just a scientific issue. It is a scientific issue that is inherently enmeshed in social, economic, financial and political issues, and that makes it a very emotional scientific topic, unlike some others. Dr Randerson: I concur with all that. It is a very big topic and it is complex. There are elements of it where there are uncertainties; there are elements where there are fewer uncertainties, and those two different areas can become confused. It also has a tendency to be very political. I have been reading some of the previous evidence sessions. There has been an elephant in the room, touched on by some speakers but not really addressed. There is a tendency among some people on either side of the debate to argue backwards, whether or not they are doing it consciously. There is a certain strain of opinion on the left that climate change is a good issue for them, because one way of countering it is along the lines of saying that big business, free markets and so on are bad. There are some people who think that is a good route to go down and will shift that on to their scientific position. Likewise, on the other side of the debate, there are people who see that and think, “This is a bad issue, and we will aim our fire at the science,” when they have not made up their mind based on the science. I am not suggesting for a minute that all the actors in the debate are arguing on those terms, but it has a tendency to be quite political. The scientific aspects of it also follow through to different potential policy outcomes, which themselves are quite complex and indeed international in terms of global climate agreements and so on. All that makes for quite a difficult mix in terms of reporting on it. Catherine Brahic: The politics of it tend to be very entrenched, so people tend to have opinions that they stick to. Everything they hear is used to support their own entrenched opinion. Unlike, say, theoretical physics, you tend to take the science to back up your point of view, which differentiates it from the other topics that we cover. Q155 Chair: What is it that would make a climate story an interesting one? What is of interest at the present time? Dr Randerson: It is the same sort of test that we would apply to any science news story. Is it interesting to the readership? Is it surprising? There is an element of entertainment there as well, I suppose. What impact is this going to have on me? What are the potential policy implications, and so on? All of those things feed into a mix that is about newness and interest to the reader. Catherine Brahic: We tend to look at whether something is true to the best of our knowledge; whether it is verified and held up by the science; whether it is relevant to our readers; and whether it is something that they will be inherently interested in and want to relate to their friends. It is the factor of the conversation down at the pub. Is it something that is going to generate some kind of conversation? A lot of climate science fits the other two factors, so it will be true and verified to the best of our knowledge and relevant to everybody’s life, but inherently quite dull because it relates to a very small aspect of climate science, which is probably interesting only to the scientists themselves. So the third factor—interest—is important to a news editor as well. 3 Q156 Chair: I am not sure whether either of you is familiar with each other’s editorial processes. Are there differences in the way your two publications approach climate stories? Catherine Brahic: James used to work at New Scientist and so is very familiar with the workings of it. Dr Randerson: I have been at The Guardian for seven years, but before that I was at New Scientist. In many ways, it is similar in that we are generally working with the same sort of source material for many kinds of stories—new scientific papers and so on. The difference is in asking the question, “Will this be of interest to our readership?” New Scientist has a slightly more specialised readership, who are more interested in and tend to be better informed about many of the issues—not to a huge degree, but obviously to some degree. So there would be a slightly different editorial calculus going on. Catherine Brahic: Our readers tend to have a scientific background. They are not necessarily scientists; in fact, the majority of them no longer practise science, but they will often have a first degree in science. They read New Scientist in order to stay connected to the science; they already have an interest in it, so we do not need to captivate them probably in the way that The Guardian needs to. We also stick strictly to the science, so we cover less of the climate policy and probably some of the harder economic aspects than The Guardian. Our readers tend to be more interested in the science itself. Dr Randerson: It is probably worth saying that we probably do more domestic politics as well on the issue than New Scientist. Catherine Brahic: Yes. Q157 Chair: So the challenge of captivating people is perhaps the reason why some newspapers allow their headline writers to go a little wild on some of the science stories. Is that your suggestion? Catherine Brahic: I would not want to comment on the policies of other newspapers, but the purpose of a headline is to catch the reader’s eye.