Legislative Assembly 9949 26 October 1994

WEDNESDAY, 26 OCTOBER 1994 refused. Petitions received.

Mr SPEAKER (Hon. J. Fouras, Ashgrove) PAPERS read prayers and took the chair at 2.30 p.m. The following papers were laid on the table— PETITIONS (a) Treasurer (Mr De Lacy)— Queensland Industry Development The Clerk announced the receipt of the Corporation—Annual Report for 1993-94 following petitions— (b) Minister for Education (Mr Comben)— Report on overseas visit to Papua New Green Island Guinea during the period 9 to 10 October From Mr Burns (534 signatories) praying 1994 that Green Island and surrounding reefs be (c) Minister for Health (Mr Hayward)— protected from coral mining. Annual Reports for 1993-94— Townsville General Hospital Bald Hills State School Foundation From Mr J. N. Goss (427 signatories) Princess Alexandra Hospital praying that the current directive to remove the Research and Development Bald Hills State School residence be rescinded Foundation. and that the building be preserved until (a) additional land is required; (b) the new library is built; and (c) the current library building is DISTINGUISHED VISITORS available for special uses and after school care. Mr SPEAKER: Honourable members, I wish to advise the House that in the gallery today are four members from the Dail Select Committee Penalties and Sentences on Finance and General Affairs from the Irish From Mr Littleproud (17 signatories) Parliament. The delegation is composed of Mr praying that appropriate steps be taken to John Ellis, Mr Michael Ahern, Mr Michael ensure that prisoners serve the full sentence Finucane and Mr Willie Penrose. handed down by the courts upon a conviction. Honourable members: Hear, hear!

Recreational Fishing MINISTERIAL STATEMENT From Mr Rowell (31 signatories) praying Overseas Visit that recreational fishing be exempted from Hon. W. K. GOSS (Logan—Premier and provisions of the Nature Conservation Act. Minister for Economic and Trade Development) (2.34 p.m.), by leave: I wish to report to the House on a trip I undertook earlier this month to Fishing and Recreation, National Parks Japan. It was my fifth annual trip to Japan, which From Mr Rowell (1 612 signatories) underlines my commitment to strengthening the praying that the Parliament of Queensland will very significant economic and trade relationship withdraw and amend current legislation so as to that exists between Queensland and Japan. provide for continued public access to waters in In five days, I had a series of meetings and national parks for fishing and recreation. briefings with many of Japan's corporate leaders and heads of prefectural Government. Significantly, the Deputy Prime Minister and Cannabis Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr Kono, attended From Mr Santoro (59 signatories) praying the Queensland Government reception that I that the statutory prohibition on the production was able to host for Queensland's Japanese and usage of cannabis be continued. trade partners, and the presence of such a Bell's Creek, Road senior member of the Japanese Government underlined the significance Japan attaches to From Mrs Sheldon (109 signatories) our relationship. praying that any application to construct the proposed Bell's Creek arterial toll road be 26 October 1994 9950 Legislative Assembly

In Tokyo, I made a presentation to the Japan most promising and interesting project was the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, attended CRA mine at Century. by 30 senior executives representing a cross- I pointed out that the Queensland Government section of Japan's major companies. The welcomed foreign investment. The two president of the chamber, Mr Saito, expressed communities had much to offer each other appreciation for the role of the Queensland because of a complementarity between our two Government in supporting the Australia Japan economies. Queensland had the lowest taxes, Business Cooperation Committee's thirty- the lowest debt and was the only State in second joint meeting held shortly afterwards in Australia with a fully balanced Budget. Brisbane. I also emphasised the positive outlook for the future of mining in Queensland, I said we were determined to use our competitive especially in the Carpentaria/Mount Isa minerals advantages to attract new industry in province. I was able to emphasise the Queensland. One of the most important benefits complementarity of our two economies as a to Queensland from this was the creation of new strong base upon which to build future trading jobs. relations. Presentation of certificate of appreciation to I was also able to emphasise the real Nippon Meat Packers possibilities for the regional areas of Queensland It is only the third certificate of appreciation that and Japan to do healthy business, and I the Queensland Government has presented and emphasised that we in Queensland are keen to it was accepted by Mr Takuji Matsumoto, the develop an economic relationship with Japan's General Manager, Planning and Administration of prefectural Governments and regional business Nippon Meat Packers. centres. It makes a great deal of sense for companies in Queensland, which is highly Nippon Meat Packers is a major investor in regionalised, to do business with comparable Queensland through its 100 per cent holdings in companies in regional Japan rather than the the Oakey abattoir and the Whyalla feedlot near larger centres like Tokyo and Osaka. I was able to Texas and its ownership of abattoirs in Bowen renew our good relationship with Osaka and and Mackay through its subsidiary company, make much of the new links between Thomas Borthwick and Company. Queensland and Osaka through the new Kansai These businesses make up a significant Airport, now providing 19 direct flights to proportion of Queensland beef exports to Japan, Australia, 14 of them to Queensland. our largest trading partner and complement the I described to Japanese Government and company's successful entrance into business leaders the excellent performance of Queensland's domestic market through the the Queensland economy and the fact that M.Q.F. abattoir and small goods factory in Queensland is the first State to become net debt Brisbane. These operations provide many free. benefits for the Queensland economy especially to our primary producers. I seek leave to table the report and have the remainder incorporated in Hansard. Lunch with Boyne Island smelter joint venture Leave granted. partner companies The joint venture companies were urged to look Meeting Notes at further opportunities for investment in central Briefing by Australian Embassy, Tokyo Queensland. Mr Peter Hussin, Minister Political, Australian I emphasised that Gladstone was set to become Embassy Tokyo, and James Horne, Australian the hub of a major new industrial development Treasury representative, provided a briefing on zone in central Queensland with a range of new the current economic and political situation in industries. Japan. We have a competitive and efficient electricity Meeting with the president of Mitsui Mining and system and we are looking to improve it. Smelting Company Limited, Mr Miyamura Community and governments around the world The company president expressed great will in future force industry to be more confidence in the future of Queensland mining environmentally responsible with light metal and I was able to give details of progress in the cars. Lighter cars mean less fuel usage resulting development of the Carpentaria-Mount Isa in reduced emissions and less pollution. Minerals Province. I pledged my support and that of the Queensland Government to mining in the I expressed the hope that the magnesium region and told Mr Miyamura that we were industry in future would match the aluminium confident new mines would be starting in the industry in terms of its development in minerals province in the next two years. The Queensland. Legislative Assembly 9951 26 October 1994

Briefing by Dr Kenichi (Ken) Ohmaeu Queensland I would have the pleasure of Dr Ohmaeu provided a general background welcoming delegates to the Australia-Japan briefing on the Japanese economy and the Business Co-operation Committee meeting in current political situation including an outline of Brisbane. possible reform to the Japanese electoral Dinner for leaders of Miyagi Prefecture system nationally. A cross section of senior business community Lunch hosted by Mr T. Horiike, President of leaders was led by the Vice-Governor, Mr Kidera, Starlanes and the Mayor of the City of Sendai, Mr Fuijii. I emphasised that I was very pleased to visit Mr Horiike pointed out that Japan was on the regions such as Tohoku, Prefectures such as brink of allowing Queensland to export mangoes Miyagi and cities such as Sendai to drive home and other tropical fruit and vegetables to Japan to Queensland industries that excellent for the first time. His company was using a new opportunities existed outside Tokyo and Osaka. technique known as the vapour heat treatment to I expressed the view that there was much more eradicate fruit fly and it was expected that the to be done to show both Queensland business Japanese Ministry of Agriculture would soon and Japan's regional centres just home much hand down a decision to allow Queensland they had in common. tropical fruit and vegetable products into Japan following a public hearing on the matter in Japan Like Queensland, Miyagi is well-known as a in September. There were plans to use the major provider of agriculture and food supplies vapour heat treatment to process tropical fruit in such as rice and seafood. The region has one of north Queensland before exporting it to Japan. the world's three most fertile fishing grounds which acts as the main supplier of seafoods to all I told Mr Horiike that his company's investment in of Japan. Queensland would not only benefit our tropical In addition, the Prefecture has Japan's most fruit exporters but would hopefully be the advanced industry zone development program beginning of a long-term trading partnership that and also acts as an important link between the would bring rewards for both Queensland and north-east region and Tokyo. Japan. I emphasised that Queensland was keen It has 70 industrial parks all of which have to encourage Japanese investment in the State, access to ports, airports and major roads. that we had strengthened our trade office in Japan and that the Brisbane-based Japan It is also worth noting that the Miyagi Prefectural secretariat had the dual role of helping Government in recent years has been active in Queensland companies find export opportunities attracting highly profitable sectors from the and of attracting Japanese investment in the major cities such as advanced technology State. industries. I indicated that it would appear Japan was Reception for Japanese trade partners starting to make greater use of its regional This function was also attended by the Deputy centres and that the Queensland Government Prime Minister of Japan, Mr Yohei Kono and the found itself in a very similar position. Governor of Saitama Prefecture, Mr Yoshihiko News conference with local media in Sendai Tsuchiya. I indicated that links between Queensland and Japan were stronger now than Five separate news organisations, print, TV and ever before after a year of unprecedented radio attended a news conference in Sendai. I contacts and special events. spoke of the huge potential for trade between regional Japan and regional Queensland, In April, the Governor of Oita Prefecture had pointing to the success already of Queensland visited Queensland to sign an agreement products such as Fourex beer and Acme Fine between the Queensland and Oita Chambers of Furniture. Commerce and industry. This was followed in Sendai media were interested in Queensland's August by a delegation of 220 people from efforts to establish trade links with the Tohoku Saitama Prefecture led by the Governor. The region rather than with Tokyo or Osaka. visit marked the 10th anniversary of the Of particular interest to Sendai reporters was the Queensland Saitama sister-State agreement and possibility of direct flights—passenger and during their stay a new three-year agreement freight—between Sendai and Queensland. was signed. Dinner for the head priest of Tenmangu Shrine, Queensland's friendship agreement with Osaka organiser of the Tenjin Matsuri Prefecture also reached an important milestone I expressed appreciation to the Guji (head priest) in 1994 when Brisbane hosted the Tenjin Matsuri, of the Tenmangu Shrine who had been one of the one of Japan's three major festivals in May. I chief organisers of the Tenjin Matsuri which pointed out that the day after my return to came to Brisbane in May of this year as part of 26 October 1994 9952 Legislative Assembly

the commemoration of the opening of the new immediate benefits for Queensland's tourism Kansai Airport in Osaka. industry. I was able to say that the people of Brisbane in The new airport had also made it possible for particular had enjoyed the street parade and the business people and official travellers such as fact that so many Queenslanders had myself to fly directly from Osaka to Brisbane. I volunteered to participate in the parade including assured Governor Nakagawa that his carrying the shrines had made the event so commitment to increasing understanding much more successful as a shared experience between our two cultures would result in greater between the two communities. co-operation between the people of Queensland Radio interview in Osaka and Osaka. In Osaka I was invited to participate in an Presentation to members of the Osaka Industrial interview on the top rating radio talk program, Association "Arigatoh Hamamura Jun". I was able to emphasise to Osaka's business The host, Mr Hamanura, is also master of and industrial leaders that with the opening of ceremonies for the annual Tenjin matsuri, the their new airport, Queensland was closer than festival which was brought to Brisbane in May. ever before. I pointed out that we were the fastest growing State in Australia with mining, I was able to thank the community of Osaka for agriculture and tourism the three main strengths the festival, and express the belief that it had of our economy and there was great potential for helped build bridges of understanding and expansion in all three sectors. cultural appreciation. There was also opportunity to promote Australia's economic growth this year was four Queensland as a tourist destination and point per cent but Queensland's was five and a half out that Cairns was now only six hours from the per cent. Among the possibilities that would open new Kansai airport and Brisbane only eight hours up with the air freight facilities now available away. through Kansai Airport would be direct imports into Japan of flowers and tropical fruits from Lunch hosted by the Governor of Osaka, Mr Queensland. There was a very bright future for Nakagawa value-added mineral products from Queensland The Governor emphasised the importance and the City of Gladstone typified of the future Osaka placed on closer ties with Queensland, development potential that was available in culturally and in trade terms. I thanked Governor Queensland. Nakagawa for the Prefectural Government's Our tourism industry was continuing to grow and participation in organising the Tenjin Matsuri in two new casinos would open in Queensland next Brisbane in May this year. I pointed out that the year. There was potential for future trade growth staging of the festival outside of Japan for the because of the complementarity between our two first time, along with the Pan Pacific Yacht Race regional economies. which started in Brisbane at the same time, was an indication of the high level of respect shared Queensland was building for the future by by Queensland and Osaka. equipping future generations of Queenslanders with an understanding of Asian language and It was also an important milestone in the close culture. Queensland now has the largest Asian relationship our two States had shared since the language program of any Australian State with signing of the sister-state agreement between Japanese among the most important of those Osaka and Queensland in 1988. languages. The opening of Kansai International Airport, In answer to questions from members of the Japan's first 24-hour airport on a man-made Osaka Industrial Association about tax levels in island in Osaka Bay, was a tribute to Japanese Queensland I was able to give an assurance that resourcefulness, and presented a great Queensland had the lowest taxes of any State in opportunity to expand trade and tourism links Australia. Taxes in other States were 38 per cent between Queensland and Osaka. The airport higher than Queensland's. facilities, combined with the economic strength of Osaka and the Kansai region would attract a Queensland had the lowest payroll tax, the huge increase in cargo flights. lowest workers' compensation rates and had no fuel tax and no financial institutions tax. As well I pointed out that we are enthusiastic about this as that reform of Government-controlled added potential for our exports, particularly as enterprises such as electricity from March next we in Queensland have the advantage of year would see commercial electricity charges established contacts in Osaka through the cut by an average 10 per cent. sister-State agreement. It has also provided Legislative Assembly 9953 26 October 1994

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT rendered to this State by the late Herbert Gateway Arterial Bus Accident Arthur Adair, a former member of the Parliament of Queensland. Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—Minister for 2. That Mr Speaker be requested to Transport and Minister Assisting the Premier on convey to the family of the deceased Economic and Trade Development) (2.37 p.m.), gentleman the above resolution, together by leave: I would like to report today on with an expression of the sympathy and investigations into the tragic bus crash on the sorrow of the members of the Parliament of Gateway Arterial road and actions already under Queensland in the loss they have way. Yesterday, engineers from Queensland sustained." Transport and officers from the Queensland Police Service, after briefing me in detail, began Herbert Adair, known as "Bunny" Adair, was a comprehensive investigation into the cause of born on 23 August 1905 in Wolfram Camp, the the crash. This morning, they were joined by son of Cecil, a miner, and Helen. Herbert's early engineers from the Federal Office of Road education was in Wolfram and Herberton, and he Safety and the National Road Transport completed his education at Mount Carmel Commission. College, Charters Towers. These investigations have confirmed a Upon completion of his education, Herbert breakage in a suspension locating bracket. worked on his parents' cane farm at Redlynch for Preliminary findings suggest this breakage may two years. He later married Gladys Down, whose have been a major contributing factor to the parents owned the Freshwater Hotel. Following crash. Consequently, I have directed that an their marriage, Herbert and Gladys moved to immediate inspection of buses with this type of Herberton, where he became involved in mining. suspension be conducted by Queensland A few years later, the couple returned to Transport inspectors at inspection stations Freshwater, where Herbert worked as a throughout Queensland. I am advised that there canecutter. Before the outbreak of the war in is only a relatively small number of coaches with 1939, Herbert took over the Freshwater Hotel. this component. This inspection will help us to Herbert served in the Australian Imperial be sure that this breakage is a once-only Forces and enlisted in New South Wales in occurrence. I have therefore directed that this March 1942. He served for several months in the inspection of components occur immediately, New South Wales Armoured Division. Herbert and the department has begun action to contact Adair subsequently transferred to the 17 Field owners. Regiment, Fifth Division, and served until he was I am also advised that Motor Coach Australia discharged in Townsville as a result of injury. will be instigating a recall program which will He was a councillor for the Mulgrave Shire require the inspection of all front suspension for nine years, both before and after the war. He control arm attachments between the front axle became the member for Cook with the Labor and chassis on all vehicles manufactured by that Party in 1953 and joined the Queensland Labor company up to the end of 1992. It is our Party following the 1957 split. He became the understanding that these components may exist Queensland Labor Party Whip and secretary of in buses interstate. Obviously, we will be the Queensland Labor Caucus in 1960. advising the Federal Office of Road Safety and His involvement and support for mining was other States of our concerns and the action we demonstrated when he gave his support for the have taken. introduction of the controversial Weipa bauxite The investigation has, of course, looked at agreement. As member for Cook, Herbert Adair's wider issues associated with the crash. Road and support extended not only to the mining industry traffic conditions, vehicle strength and occupant but also to the waterside workers. He resigned protection are all being looked at in detail. This from Parliament in 1969 following the death of detailed information will, of course, be presented his eldest son, Bill. The Adairs soon after retired to the coroner's inquiry in due course. to Freshwater. On behalf of the Parliament, I extend my MOTION OF CONDOLENCE sympathy and that of this House to his family. Death of Mr H. A. Adair Mr BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise— Hon. W. K. GOSS (Logan—Premier and Leader of the Opposition) (2.41 p.m.): The Minister for Economic and Trade Development) former member for Cook, Herbert Arthur Adair, (2.38 p.m.): I move— was a miner, a farmer and a publican, before his time as a councillor and State politician. Those "1. That this House desires to place on prior pursuits contributed to his reputation as a record its appreciation of the services 26 October 1994 9954 Legislative Assembly man of the people during his council and has really earned his oats in terms of his parliamentary service. commitment to public duty. In fact, Bunny was Bunny Adair involved himself in all facets of one of two people who represented the Cook the promising cane farming concern of the far constituency for 16 years, so he shares the north. He extended his interest to the industrial record as the longest serving member for Cook. relations arena—a strong advocate of the 40- He did have some difficulty, of course. hour week and promotion of the needs of Originally, he was elected as an ALP member. individual workers. His interest in emerging and When the split came, he joined the QLP. I have established commodity industries extended to no doubt that it was a difficult time for him peanuts, pearls, cattle and cane. A protracted personally, because it was a difficult time for promotion of alternative forms of freight transport members throughout the party including those in in the far north helped to secure sea transport for far-north Queensland where those sorts of cattle from Cape York Peninsula. It also linked emotions ran quite deeply. He was with the QLP port and island communities with commonplace for a number of years, holding the position of mainland freight transport provisions. His Whip. It is interesting to note that Bunny did not promotion of new mining and export join the DLP when the QLP and the DLP opportunities contributed to the realisation of the amalgamated; rather, he stood as an potential of tin and to this day has maintained Independent. He saw out his time in Parliament more than an element of intrigue in diamond as an Independent. discovery in this region. In those days, the Aborigines and Torres His nine-year term as a Mulgrave Shire Strait Islanders who comprise most of the Cook councillor put him in good stead as a resilient and electorate did not have the vote and were not enduring parliamentarian. Bunny Adair enjoyed a counted on the census for the area. varied political experience during his Nevertheless, Bunny spent a lot of time travelling parliamentary term as a successful Australian around the remote parts of the State. In those Labor Party candidate, only to change to the days, when the member came to Parliament, he more conservatively-aligned Queensland Labor travelled down by train. It took a couple of days to Party and then contested the 1963 State get here. Parliament sat for a few weeks, and the election as an Independent. He remained so member was away from his family for all of that until his retirement in 1969. time. Most of the travel around the electorate was On behalf of the Opposition, I join with the sea travel. I understand that Bunny even spent Honourable the Premier in extending our quite a bit of time on horseback, travelling to sympathies to the Adair family. different places in the electorate. It is a far cry from the days of modern communications and Mr BREDHAUER (Cook) (2.42 p.m.): I rise transport. I have nothing but admiration for a briefly in this motion to express my sympathies at person who for 16 years was able to effectively the passing of Bunny Adair. As has already been represent such a remote part of Queensland. I mentioned, Bunny was born at Wolfram camp commend him and his memory to the members outside of Herberton. His first employment was of the House. as a pharmacy apprentice— a job he held with his brother in Herberton. He had a varied working Motion agreed to, honourable members background including working in mining. He standing in silence. worked as a canefarmer and a canecutter. He had a period with the army, which has been alluded SELECT COMMITTEE OF PRIVILEGES to, that was cut short by his demobilisation as a result of a leg injury. He also worked as a trucking Appointment contractor for the Cairns brewery, and he was the Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH publican and licensee of the Freshwater Hotel. (Chatsworth—Leader of the House) (2.46 p.m.), That hotel was owned by his mother-in-law, Mrs by leave: I move— Down. "That Mr Hobbs be appointed as a Bunny was elected as the member for Cook member of the Select Committee of in 1953. He remained as the member for Cook in Privileges in place of Mr Slack." a number of capacities until he retired. He spent Motion agreed to. a total of 16 years as the member for Cook. The Cook electorate has been around since 1875 Mr BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise— and, I think, there have been 19 members for Leader of the Opposition) (2.47 p.m.): I seek Cook since that time. Honourable members will leave to move a motion without notice—— appreciate that anyone who has managed to Question—That leave be granted—put; spend 16 years as the member representing and the House divided— some of the most remote parts of Queensland Legislative Assembly 9955 26 October 1994

AYES, 34—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, Mr W. K. GOSS: The Leader of the Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Gilmore, Opposition does not listen; he just interjects and Goss J. N., Grice, Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, babbles away. He is a real motorbike ashtray. Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, The facts are that, this year, this Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Government has allocated $2.4 billion—a record Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Watson Queensland Education budget, and $100m Tellers: Laming, Springborg more than was allocated last year. That budget NOES, 51—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, includes—and I draw the attention of the Leader Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Burns, Casey, Clark, of the Opposition to this particular item—$22.5m Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, for distance education programs. The Education Elder, Fenlon, Foley, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, budget also includes $149m for capital works Hayward, Hollis, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, and over $68m in school grants to cover Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Power, operating costs, that is, operating costs other Purcell, Pyke, Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, than salaries so that schools do not have to raise Spence, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, funds for the basics the way they did under the Vaughan, Warner, Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: National Party Government. That budget also Budd, Livingstone includes $14m to help school P & Cs with the Resolved in the negative. basics—to provide them with essential equipment that was not provided previously. It also includes $7m for the introduction of QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE non-contact time this year for teachers in Teacher Numbers preschools, primary schools and special schools. It includes over $22m for the Languages Other Mr BORBIDGE: I refer the Premier to Than English program. It includes over $174m claims by Queensland Teachers Union president for the non-Government sector and $20m for the Mr Ian Mackie that 36 secondary teaching implementation of curriculum review positions will be cut in north-west Queensland recommendations. and to his particular comment that "the Government on the one hand talks about its Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. commitment to rural communities and on the The question related to the 36 teachers that the other hand willingly runs down country schools", Government is taking out of north-western and I ask: why has it been necessary to make Queensland. these cuts when there has been a substantial Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of increase in education funding? order. The member will resume his seat. Mr W. K. GOSS: While the Leader of the Mr Cooper interjected. Opposition continually tries to cast doubts on the Government's efforts in education and in other Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am on my feet. I areas, the irrefutable facts are that there has will not allow interjections while I am on my feet. I been a dramatic increase in education spending, warn the member for Crows Nest under Standing a dramatic increase in worthwhile services and Order 123A. facilities to our schools and a dramatic increase in Mr W. K. GOSS: It includes over $25m for the number of teachers and their salaries. textbook resources and student allowances; As to that particular statement by Mr $11m for the new Conservatorium of Music; and, Mackie—I have not seen that statement. I will for north Queensland, $4m for the Cairns certainly ask the Minister about it when we finish development of the James Cook campus. The question time. In relation to education— list goes on and on. I will not give honourable throughout the State, more funds, more members opposite the full list unless they are teachers, more facilities. really determined to know how good our Opposition members interjected. performance is in education. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the members The fact is that the spending on education for Clayfield, Western Downs and Aspley under in this State up to the end of the 1980s was a Standing Order 123A. disgrace. Teachers' salaries were a disgrace. Teacher numbers were a disgrace. The need for Mr W. K. GOSS: The evidence of that is special programs in distance education, in this year's Budget. I understood that this was languages other than English courses, to be the tactic today, so I brought the book with computers, and P & C basic requirements—all of me. What are the facts? these areas were neglected under the National Mr Borbidge: You should see the film. Party. That has been corrected. We have put serious money into those areas and have not 26 October 1994 9956 Legislative Assembly neglected them the way they were neglected in is a contempt of the Chair. I warn him under the past. Standing Order 124 for the last time today. Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. Teacher Numbers My point of order was that the comments made by the Premier were untrue and offensive. I ask Mr BORBIDGE: In directing a further that they be withdrawn. I was not permitted to say question to the Premier, I refer to his Education that. Minister's claim during Estimates committee hearings that the number of additional teachers Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat. That is not what budgeted for has never translated into the same the honourable member said. number of teachers in classrooms. I also refer to official Education Department figures which Mr W. K. GOSS: The facts are that the indicate that, of the 1 617 extra teachers Leader of the Opposition is now well known for allocated in his Budgets from 1990 to 1994, at his breathtaking capacity— the most only 1 158 have been employed—a Mr Quinn interjected. shortfall of some 450 teachers. I now ask: why Mr Borbidge interjected. has his Government continually deceived and misled parents and teachers by counting some Mr Beanland interjected. 450 phantom teachers and, as his Government Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member has used shonky teacher numbers in the past, for Merrimac, the Leader of the Opposition, and how can the public have any confidence in his the member for Indooroopilly under Standing present or future promises? Order 123A. Mr W. K. GOSS: In answer to the Leader Mr W. K. GOSS: As I said, the Leader of of the Opposition—we have been able to point the Opposition is well known for his breathtaking out time and time again in this place the habit and capacity to misrepresent and mislead this House, the practice—the systematic practice—of the particularly when it comes to facts and particularly Leader of the Opposition of misleading this when it comes to numbers. The facts are that this House. Government has substantially increased teacher Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. numbers. The Leader of the Opposition's My point of order is simply this: if the Premier question accepts this, but time and time again finds information—— the Leader of the Opposition misleads members of this House and misleads the press gallery in Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of the hope of getting one day's publicity. And he order. The Leader of the Opposition will resume hopes that they will not come back 24 hours later his seat. I am on my feet. I would like to warn and scrutinise the deliberate falsehood. honourable members that yesterday I was accused of not listening to a point of order Mr Speaker, let me conclude by giving you because I pre-empted it. I will listen to points of an example of the selective and order, but I warn members that they ought to be misrepresentative use of statistics. The Leader points of order, not debating points. I will not of the Opposition spoke in this place today about allow the Leader of the Opposition, through the teacher numbers in the north west of the State. ploy of a point of order, to debate the issue. What he did not mention—and what he did not What is the honourable member's point of order? match it up with—is the decline in student enrolments. Mr BORBIDGE: I would not dream of it, Mr The important thing is: what is the ratio of Speaker. students to teachers in some of these schools? Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am sure that the What is the record in terms of the ratio of honourable member would not. students to teachers that we deliver? I do not Mr BORBIDGE: Simply, my point of order have the figures for all of the schools, but I can under Standing Orders 119 and 120 is this: the give you some examples, Mr Speaker, because it figures that I used were figures provided by the is always important to be prepared for questions Minister for Education—— without notice from the Leader of the Opposition. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member will resume his seat. Mr Littleproud interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have warned the Mr BORBIDGE: I find the Premier's member for Western Downs under Standing comments offensive. Order 123A. I now ask him to leave the Chamber. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the Leader of I warn all honourable members that question time the Opposition under Standing Order 124. I am today is too rowdy for my liking. I will have some on my feet. He disobeyed the Chair. What he did dignity in this Chamber. Legislative Assembly 9957 26 October 1994

Whereupon the honourable member for likely staffing levels will be for next year in the Western Downs withdrew from the Chamber. north-west region? Mr W. K. GOSS: The point is that in areas Mr Perrett interjected. such as north-west Queensland we do not just Mr Connor interjected. allocate teachers on the basis of a student/teacher ratio, we allocate them on a Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member more generous basis because we combine as for Barambah and the member for Nerang under well as that a factor for the number of teachers Standing Order 123A. that are required to deliver particular subjects. So Mr Lingard interjected. what is the result of that? Lest anybody in the Mr SPEAKER: Order! I also warn the gallery and lest anybody this Chamber go away member for Beaudesert under Standing Order with the impression that the student/teacher ratio 123A. is somehow poor, I will give the House some examples. Mr COMBEN: I am pleased, if nothing else, that one member of this House knows For example, the secondary department in where the statutory and constitutional the Blackall State School offers 22 subjects for responsibilities for education stand. It is not with 37 students in Years 11 and 12. A similar pattern the Premier; it is with the Minister for Education. exists throughout the region. Some examples of the teacher to student ratio are as follows. These A Government member interjected. are students who the Leader of the Opposition Mr COMBEN: A few others on this side says are so poorly served. This is why he has had have a rough idea, as well. no respect out there on the rare occasions that Ten days ago, I travelled to Mount Isa to he visits those places. examine a range of issues, but the main reason Mr Johnson interjected. for my trip was to meet with the principals from Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member the State school system in the Mount Isa region for Gregory under Standing Order 123A. to talk about the differences that they had between likely enrolments for next year on which Mr W. K. GOSS: Blackall has one teacher we are considering staffing schools and what for every eight students in its secondary they themselves believe will be their likely department. There is one teacher for every nine enrolments. There is a difference between the students in Barcaldine. There is one teacher for departmental forecasts and the enrolments that every eight students in Hughenden, and one those principals were predicting. I said to those teacher for every nine students in Cloncurry. If principals, "You find the numbers, come back to the Leader of the Opposition ever told the whole us, prove the numbers, and we will give you truth and nothing other than the those staff." truth—something of which he is pathologically incapable—then he would acknowledge the On the first day of term, we will staff to the facts. sorts of ratios that the Premier has already very competently outlined. In places such as Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. I Barcaldine and Blackall, there will be one teacher ask that the pathological smear merchant to eight or nine students. That is the sort of ratio opposite withdraw those comments. I find them that we are keeping there. What that means for offensive. the Leader of the Opposition is that when he Mr SPEAKER: Order! I suggest to the writes to me about Merrimac or Benowa high Leader of the Opposition that he ask for a school, I will be writing back and saying that we withdrawal in the normal manner: that he finds would love to provide the requested extra level something either untrue or offensive. The of resources, but by the way there is a differential Leader of the Opposition is trying my patience in staffing between the high school that he today. I ask the Premier to withdraw. represents and those in the west, yet he wants Mr BORBIDGE: I ask that the comments to make it even better. How we can make that made by the Premier be withdrawn. better is beyond me. There are more subjects on offer at present in the Blackall secondary Mr W. K. GOSS: I withdraw the word department than there are at Kenmore State "pathological" as requested by the Leader of the High School—a school that has probably 12 or Opposition. He is simply incapable of telling the 14 times the number of students enrolled at truth. Blackall. If there is to be a change in staffing numbers Teacher Numbers and ratios in the north west, it is because of the Mr LIVINGSTONE: I ask the Minister for graph that I hold in my hand. That graph shows Education: will he advise the House what the the 11 educational regions of this State. 26 October 1994 9958 Legislative Assembly

Mr Veivers: Are you holding it the right are based on the revenue projections in all of the way up? various State Budget papers. The document Mr COMBEN: It is the right way up. shows that for 1994-95, the per capita State collections in Queensland will be $1,168. The Mr W. K. Goss interjected. average per capita collections for the other Mr COMBEN: That is right. What it shows States of Australia will be $1,638—a differential is that in the north-west educational region of this of 40.2 per cent. State the decrease in enrolments between 1993 An Opposition member: What about and 1994 was 8 per cent. That was because of charges? the change at Mount Isa Mines and because of the general drifts in the west. When we lose 8 Mr De LACY: We can do another review per cent—— dealing with charges; it would be even better. Mr Gilmore: Who blew the jobs in This review covered taxation revenue—the Brisbane? matters to which Mrs Sheldon refers frequently. The review covered matters such as payroll tax, Mr COMBEN: What about the drought? stamp duty, land tax, gambling taxes and what What about the mechanisation of which the have you—all of those taxes that Mrs Sheldon farmers opposite are aware? Where is the job that keeps talking about. I used to have as a station hand in the central west? Those jobs are gone because of Residents in the other States of Australia mechanisation. pay, on average, 40.2 per cent more than they do in Queensland. If there is an 8 per cent loss in the number of students, there must be a change in the staffing Mrs Sheldon: Tell us about how WA is numbers. However, we will continue to staff the outstripping you on all levels. north west and the south west of this State far Mr De LACY: If we consider Mrs more generously than other parts of the State. Sheldon's mates in New South Wales, we find That means that other parts have to pay the that the discrepancy is substantially more. In New price; they will give up some resources. But at South Wales, the per capita tax collections will be the end of the day the staffing levels there will be $1,746—50 per cent more than in Queensland. maintained at a very appropriate level. There is one other point that I would like to make. As to the Leader of the Opposition's claims The margin between Queensland and the other about Mr Mackie—my office has had a number of States of Australia has been gradually getting discussions with Mr Mackie, and I do not believe wider. In 1988-89, the differential was 31.7 per that he will be sending out that press release cent. It is true that when we came to tomorrow. It is a pity that Mr Mackie is up-to-date Government, Queensland was the low-tax State. and that the Leader of the Opposition is not. Other States paid, on average, 31 per cent more. However, that margin has been increasing and increasing, and this year it has reached 40 per State Taxation cent. Mr LIVINGSTONE: In directing a Those members opposite who carry on question to the Treasurer, I refer to claims in this about providing a regime for business and House yesterday by the Deputy Leader of the attracting business and creating a climate that is Coalition that the State Government is not doing conducive to business investment ought to have enough to encourage business investment in a look at the facts. For the benefit of honourable Queensland, and I ask: can the Treasurer inform members, I will table this document. I suggest the House how Queensland's tax levels, that all members who are interested in the facts particularly those applying to business, compare and promoting Queensland read the document, with those in the rest of Australia? but some members opposite will probably not Mr De LACY: I am pleased to do so. I even bother to pick it up. believe—and I am sure that everybody on this Physical Education side of the House believes—that the best single thing we can do for the business community to Mrs SHELDON: In directing a question to encourage it to invest, to expand and to employ the Premier, I table an answer to a question by Mr people is to ensure that we have a good, Comben, the Minister for Education, on competitive tax regime. My department has just teacher/student ratio numbers as referred to by completed a review of the State taxes in all the Leader of the Opposition and me and note States of Australia. Those statistics have been that in a recent speech at the Global Education compiled into a document, which I recommend to Seminar in Brisbane, the Premier said— every member of this House. The document also "It is my view that there should not be a includes estimates for 1994-95. Those estimates Legislative Assembly 9959 26 October 1994

downgrading of the role of physical Mrs SHELDON: I direct a question to the education in our schools." Premier. In its 1989 education policy, which I will In response to this statement, the Queensland table in case the Premier has forgotten it, Labor Branch of the Australian Council for Health and promised, as a matter of priority, that for every Recreation revealed in a letter to the Courier-Mail class which integrated a child with special needs that under this Government the ratio of students into a regular class, the size of that class would to physical education teachers has increased decrease by five students. Since no mention of from 726 students per teacher in 1992 to the this commitment has been made in any of the present 843 students per teacher—a 16 per five Education budgets to date, I ask: when will cent increase in two years. I ask: if the Premier is the Premier tell teachers and parents that they so convinced of the importance of physical have been conned again and that the education in our schools, why has his Education Government has no intentions of relieving them Minister been running in the opposite direction of the extra workload and stress that this broken for the past two years? promise is producing? Mr FitzGerald: He'll put you right with the Mr W. K. GOSS: It appears that the next Dorothy Dixer from your side. Leader of the Liberal Party has become so desperate in her pursuit of policy and the need Mr W. K. GOSS: He may well do. I will to develop policy that she has gone back to leave the question of the precise ratio of physical reading our old policies. Let me tell Mrs Sheldon education teachers to students in Queensland that she could do a lot worse. Is it not pathetic schools to the Minister for Education, but let me that they come into this place without an say that the task of the Government is to make Education policy and the best that they can do is sure that portfolios such as Education are to table ours? properly resourced. That is its first and foremost duty, and that is the task that I have personally The area of special education is a very committed myself to both as Premier and as the difficult one for every Government in Australia, chair of the Budget Review Committee. When including this Government. Ministers come before the Budget Review Opposition members interjected. Committee, we examine the global Budget. As I said before, it has increased this year to $2.4 Mr W. K. GOSS: Opposition members billion—not just a Queensland record, but can scoff and bark if they like, but this is a very $100m more than last year. serious issue. If there was a genuine bone in a body over there, they would be prepared to It is also true that members of the Budget listen. This is a very difficult issue not just for Review Committee have a respect and a belief teachers and not just for students, but for that Ministers and their senior officials know the families and for Governments. various components of their department so we give them considerable discretion on how The situation in relation to special education money will be spent. The Budget Review is that the trend has been, as we know, to try to Committee concentrates on two things: new see what we can do to mainstream these initiatives and areas where there might be scope students rather than leave them parked to one for savings and areas where there might be side in a separate institution. There has been particular problems warranting the provision of considerable debate—— additional funds. Those are the sorts of areas to Opposition members interjected. which I have directed my attention. That has lead Mr W. K. GOSS: They are pathetic the to programs such as Languages Other Than way they narc and bark away. English; the P & C Basics Program, and the Computers in Schools Program, under which we Mr Stephan interjected. are providing record funds to boost the number Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member of computers in our schools. We have also for Gympie under Standing Order 123A. recently announced a special program to deliver Mr W. K. GOSS: On an issue such as CD-ROM to every school in the State. this, which I say again in all seriousness is a It is true that at the last couple of Budget difficult issue, there are, I imagine, considerable Review Committee meetings there has not been misgivings on both sides of Parliament and a specific discussion of the precise ratio of throughout the community about whether this physical education teachers to students. As I sort of policy should proceed and, if so, how it said at the beginning, I will leave the detail of that should be implemented. It is clear, Mr to the Minister for Education. Speaker—— Opposition members interjected. Class Sizes; Special Needs Students 26 October 1994 9960 Legislative Assembly

Mr W. K. GOSS: It is just hopeless, Mr Stored Chemicals at Mutdapilly Speaker, this consistent barrage from the Mr BUDD: I ask the Minister for Primary juvenile minds opposite. Look at them. They can Industries: is he aware of the allegations raised have it in spades. They have run round the by the honourable member for Barambah in this gallery since January of this year saying, "We're House yesterday concerning the storage of going to leave Goss alone because he machine- chemicals at Mutdapilly Research Station, and is guns us at question time. We're going to nail the he also aware of the impact of such allegations weak Ministers." I have had nine months of this on the community? strategy, but it has been an abject failure. Mr Speaker, do you know why it is an abject failure? Mr CASEY: The member for Redlands Because they are plain bone lazy and draws attention, quite correctly, to the further incompetent. In nine months they have not campaign by the National Party in this State of scratched a bit of paint off one Minister. So now deliberate, mischievous misinformation and they run round the gallery and say, "We're going scaremongering that the Premier has drawn to target Goss", and this is an example of it, a attention to this morning. What is evident in the question, admittedly about a difficult issue, but allegations made by the National Party member one in respect of which they are not prepared to yesterday is that they are incapable of coming up listen to the answer. with sound, basic policies and, therefore, they are constantly resorting to this type of tactic, that In relation to special education, we accept is, deliberate untruths and misinformation. that the placement of a special needs student or a special education student in a class places an The real facts are these: in 1987, following extra strain, which leads to a need for extra the Australiawide banning of certain resources, and that is part of the reason why organochlorine pesticides such as DDT—— there has been a record increase in the overall Mr Perrett: Tell us what your policy is in Education budget, but it is also part of the reason relation to chemicals. why we are directing increased and special funds Mr CASEY: Just sit there and to this area in particular. It is a matter that I have listen—Dieldrin, etc., the former National Party raised at Cabinet on a number of occasions, and Government was dragged kicking—— it is a matter that we have discussed at Cabinet because we are concerned. Mr Perrett interjected. Mr Borbidge: Five years. Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member for Barambah under Standing Order 123A. Mr W. K. GOSS: Yes, regularly over the five years because we are concerned about it. Mr CASEY:—and screaming into Some examples of funding beyond the general undertaking a Statewide retrieval program. What global increase in Education is that in relation to did it do? It collected about 147 tonnes of capital works, and I referred to this. I said that pesticide that was then shipped over to England there had been a $149m allocation for capital to be burnt in incinerators to get it out of the works. What I did not say and what I will say now is road. A further 18 tonnes was either recycled or that that included a special allocation of $6.1m for disposed of on the local scene. But before the special education. I also point out that—and this Government disposed of it, when it collected it goes to the heart of the question—in relation to and brought it all together, where did it put it? non-contact time, the $7m provided as a special Tonnes of chemicals were sitting at the Bulimba allocation in relation to non-contact time for 1995 Power Station, right in the heart of the major was for preschools, primary and special schools. population area of Queensland. If members opposite will just look at the Budget, Mr Perrett: Tell us about Mutdapilly. they will see other areas where we are increasing Mr CASEY: That is where the former the funds to special education. Government put it. It was not a time bomb; it was I say again that not only are we increasing an atomic bomb within a matter of metres of the the funds to special education in the way that I Brisbane River waiting to go off. That is where have outlined and in other ways, but also as a those chemicals were stored. Approximately 30 Government we are continuing to scrutinise and tonnes have come in since the contractual continuing to debate the problems generated by arrangements were completed for the disposal of the needs of special education students. We will those chemicals. Of this, about 20-odd tonnes continue to do so because we care and we are located at Mutdapilly, and those chemicals believe that both the level of funding and the are stored and collected there in a secure, safe, policy of the previous National and Liberal Party locked storage facility. Governments was uncaring and inappropriate to Mr Perrett interjected. these students. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Barambah has been warned. Legislative Assembly 9961 26 October 1994

Mr CASEY: That facility has a sunken its candidate for that area at the next State concrete floor, it is surrounded by bund walls, it is election. The press release continues— some distance away from any public habitation, "He said Labor Party sources had and it is well away from flood-prone areas. Most of revealed Premier Goss recently asked for a the other sites in Queensland that are holding full report on how the scheme could be small quantities of this chemical have a capacity implemented with the least possible political of less than a 44-gallon drum—200-litre drum. backlash." Over the past 12 months, my department has been working with various waste disposal Mr W. K. Goss: Who told him? companies in Queensland to try to work out a Mr CASEY: I really do not know. I have scheme to get rid of the rest of those chemicals. several suspects amongst members on the other There has been some disagreement among side of the Chamber. It could well have been the some of the waste disposal companies. One has member for Barambah. It could well have been been looking at some very shady deals—"shady" the Leader of the Opposition. But I think the being the operative word to many members in greatest suspect—because he is the only one this Chamber, because one of its principals is Mr who talks about it in the Parliament—is the Don Lane, a former member of this Parliament, Deputy Leader of the National Party, the member who was a Liberal member turned a National for Beaudesert. He might be the one who told Mr Party member. What he has turned into Lester Hughes. He is not a dreamer, he just now—since he rose from his disgrace—I do not imagines things. know. Those companies are negotiating with my The proof of Wolffdene dam is this: in 1989, department for the safe and secure disposal of our leader, as Opposition Leader, went down the remaining chemicals in Queensland. The there to the Wolffdene dam site on a big bonfire sum of $300,000 has been allocated in our night and clearly declared to the people of the budget to complete this work. This is another Wolffdene dam area that when Labor was example of the Goss Government being called elected to Government in this State we would upon to clean up the mess left throughout scrap all the plans for the Wolffdene dam. I am Queensland by the former National Party very proud that that was initiated immediately we Government. All that Opposition members can came to office. Even as late as last December, I come up with are sneering, snide remarks and announced in this House that all the land that gross untruths with which they are trying to scare had been secured by the previous Government the public of Queensland. had been disposed of. Wolffdene Dam The Goss Government met its commitment. Mr BUDD: I ask a second question of the All we have now are snide, underlying, Minister for Primary Industries: is he aware of scaremongering plans that the National Party is claims by the National Party's Albert Electorate trying to say are being put into place. There was Council that the Goss Government is putting in never an intention on the part of this place a secret appraisal of the scrapped Government to build the Wolffdene dam. It has Wolffdene proposal? If so, could he advise the never been built. There are no secret plans House if there is any truth in these claims? floating around to see how we can do it. We are Mr CASEY: Again, this is another constant going ahead with the proposals that we have put reminder to us all of the very way in which the in place to really look after the water resources of National Party is operating in this State. It is also south-east Queensland in a different way. another very good example of the things I was discussing before. I have a copy of a press Enrolment Growth in Non-Government release from the National Party of Australia Albert Schools Electorate Council of 25 October—yesterday—headed "Secret Plans for Mr QUINN: In directing a question to the Wolffdene Dam"—secret plans! It states— Premier, I refer to the fact that since 1992 the enrolment growth rate for non-Government "Secret plans are being made by the schools is almost three and a half times that of Goss Labor Government to revive the State schools, and I ask: if spending additional Wolffdene Dam project, according to the millions of dollars has improved the State school National Party's Albert Electorate chairman, education system—as the Premier claims—why Lester Hughes." are increasing numbers of parents rejecting the The honourable member for Albert probably State school system by voting with their feet? knows Lester Hughes, because he has just Mr W. K. GOSS: One of the things that been selected again by the National Party to be this Government has done is provide a better deal to the non-Government sector. 26 October 1994 9962 Legislative Assembly

Mr Foley: My parish school is grateful for it. socioeconomic backgrounds into paying fees to Mr W. K. GOSS: As the member for non-Government schools in order to obtain a Yeronga says, his parish school is grateful for it. If suitable education? Is this not a betrayal of the honourable member does his homework he everything that the Premier and his socially just will see that over $174m has been allocated for party claim to represent? the non-Government sector. We have had a Mr W. K. GOSS: I hope the honourable good and constructive working relationship with member is not suggesting that the member for the non-Government sector to ensure that Woodridge would suggest that those people are Government policies and Government funding phantom teachers. The member for Woodridge take into account the needs of that sector. We has raised this matter. He has also mentioned it see strong growth in population and schools to me and he has taken it up with the Minister for right across Queensland. I am not surprised that Education, who has paid particular attention to it that includes the non-Government sector. and given it some priority. I am aware of the I believe that there are other social factors meetings that the Minister for Education has involved, including the concern that some been involved in. I do not know who was there. If parents have—particularly when it comes to high the member wants to know the detail, he should schools—and the belief that some particular ask the Minister for Education. schools will produce a better result. I believe that It is the case that this Government has a impression has unfortunately been commitment to social justice and it is the case inappropriately encouraged by some of the that we promised in 1989 that we would boost publicity that seeks to rank schools according to education spending to the national average, and OP levels and the like. I believe there has been that is where we are heading. We promised that an attempt by the Minister for Education and, we would boost education spending indeed, some officials of the Queensland substantially. Teachers Union to try to put that into context. How can honourable members opposite Mr Borbidge interjected. talk? What hypocrisy and cant! Now the Leader of Mr W. K. GOSS: We do not run the the Opposition is mimicking me. Someone has newspapers. The other group that must take told him to watch me to see how leadership some responsibility for this trend is the works. He will be jogging next. What a joke! What Queensland Teachers Union and, in particular, a pathetic bunch of motorcycle ashtrays. The the past president of the Queensland Teachers peak of their performance in the parliamentary Union, who made every possible attempt to day—their Mount Everest—is when they can denigrate the State system in which the union's make the loudest noise in question time. That is members work. the peak of their performance. Have the Opposition members ever thought about that? The most they ever perform, the most impact Remedial Education they ever make, is when they turn themselves Mr QUINN: I direct a second question to into a rowdy rabble and get a couple of members the Premier. The member for Woodridge, Mr thrown out. D'Arcy, told a recent ALP State conference that In relation to social justice and special Labor was facing severe education problems in education, I repeat that Opposition members can its heartland. He said— compare our Education budget to any Education ". . . specialist teachers are so thin on the budget of theirs. They can compare our two ground as to be invisible." Ministers for Education to any Minister for Education of theirs. We beat them trumps; we He said also— beat them hands down any time. ". . . the Education Department needed a In relation to the particular area of special policy that concentrated on the provision of education, I have referred before to the capital remedial education and adequately works. I will not refer to that again. I have referred assessing those who needed it." to the special money for non-contact time. He further said— Mr Borbidge: You've gone troppo. ". . . we talk about equality, but where is the Mr W. K. GOSS: I will take the equality in an area like Woodridge when a interjection. I have been provoked. He says, child has a learning disability?" according to the script in front of him on the I ask the Premier: why is the Government failing desk, "You've gone troppo." This fits with the to provide sufficient remedial teachers for diabolical, devilish strategy that says, "We are students who need assistance? Why is the going to question Goss until he cracks." The Government forcing children from low Legislative Assembly 9963 26 October 1994 members of the Opposition can keep Hendra at half a million dollars? Could the Minister questioning me and I will keep pummelling them. advise the House of the facts? If members want to see what we are doing in Mr GIBBS: I am happy to provide the the special education area, then they can go out House with the facts. I might say that I get no and see the special education units. particular pleasure out of this, because this has Mr Borbidge: They'll put a hole in the roof been a most unpleasant exercise in terms of the so your head will fit in the Chamber. horses that were infected with the virus at the late Vic Rail's stables. It seems to me that there Mr W. K. GOSS: There are no prizes for has been a most unbalanced and very unfair second. If members are interested in special television campaign waged by one particular education they can go out and look at the special program over the last couple of weeks in relation facilities at Tullawong. They can look at the spa to the facts about these horses. therapy pool at Mount Ommaney. They can visit those facilities to see the sort of approach that I want to make the point that prior to any the Minister for Education is bringing to bear and action being taken, some weeks ago, in implementing with the extra funds that we have discussion with the Queensland Principal Club, it given him, funds that are over the budget of the was decided to commission the expertise of former Government. In this financial year alone, William Inglis and Sons Ltd, who are without $148m was allocated to special education. doubt the most respected bloodstock valuation Members of the Opposition can compare that agents in this country. I shall go through the with their Budgets. valuations as quickly as I can. In spite of media reports that the stallion Quegent at the Rail The Leader of the Liberal Party barked stables was worth in excess of $400,000, William before about additional teachers. If the Inglis supplied valuations on the basis that— honourable member wants to know about additional teachers, well, 70 additional ". . . no inspections have taken place and teachers—— that the horses are in good health and condition." Mrs Sheldon interjected. The horses are not in good health or in good Mr W. K. GOSS: The honourable condition. William Inglis placed a value on the member should stop talking for a minute and horse Quegent at $20,000; Minder's Girl, which switch on her ears. I said, "70 additional is another of the infected horses, $6,000; Sign teachers". Currently, there are 62 special of Battle, $1,000; Huamino, $3,000; and Sir schools, and 176 special education units, Ambition, $600. The valuations of the non- including 38 early education units. There are 90 infected horses, which have since been moved, support groups for senior students and 45 range from $300 to a highest valuation of school support centres. I explained before how $3,000. Unfortunately, in relation to those we have provided the funds for an additional 70 animals, a decision had to be made. As I said, it teachers. But the area of staff covers not just was not a decision that was taken lightly. teachers. In addition, there are 2 200 support staff, almost 100 speech pathologists, 30 The reality is that the one correct statement occupational therapists and something like 12 on the 7.30 Report last night was that no person nurses. wants on his or her property the horses that have been infected. As anybody who understands We have improved the effort and we are the racing industry would know, none of those going to work at continuing to improve it. I said horses will ever race again. No trainer would be before and I say again that we have been prepared to have those horses in his or her concerned about the special education area. We stable. have discussed it in Cabinet a number of times. We are reviewing it and we expect that review to In relation to the fairly unfortunate and, as I be completed in early to mid-1995. We have not said, sad sort of presentation that has been just done all of those extra things and left it there; going on in relation to the stallion Quegent, I we are monitoring and reviewing them and we would like to make the House familiar with the are going to revisit the whole area in the middle animal. On 12 September 1992, the horse won a of 1995. Group 2 race at Flemington. It won the Ascot Vale Stakes and first prize money of $163,500. It is my understanding that on that day after the Valuation of Horses, Hendra Stables horse had left the track an offer was, in fact, made Mr SZCZERBANIK: I ask Minister for to the owners of some $400,000 for the horse. Tourism, Sport and Racing: is he aware of media He raced again and won total prize money of reports placing the value of infected horses at $227,320. He raced fairly consistently in 1992 and in 1993, and on most occasions in fields of up to 16 horses he came in at no better position 26 October 1994 9964 Legislative Assembly than second last at any stage. In fact, at his last something. I thought that I would go out and start, which was at Doomben on 26 January check for myself to see whether there was any 1994, he was placed fourth out of 10 horses in substance whatsoever in the claims of the the field. He has not raced since then. honourable member. I felt somewhat reassured The reality is that the horse would never when I discovered that, last year, container trade have raced again, because my understanding through the port of Brisbane increased by 6.8 and my advice is that prior to his even contracting per cent. That was very gratifying. I thought, the unfortunate virus, the horse was being seeing that business is coming to the port of treated for a seriously bowed tendon. Once Brisbane, let me again test the veracity of the again, people who are familiar with racing would claims of the member for Clayfield. Rather than understand that a horse with a seriously bowed rely on Hans Christian Andersen and the tendon rarely comes back to race again. brothers Grimm as the source of my reference data, I thought that I would refer to the Bureau of The other point that I wish to make about Industry Economics and see what it had to say this horse is that, although he is an entire, about the relative cost of the capital city ports in nobody in the breeding industry would allow this Australia and how they compared. horse to cover mares. I think that would be a viewpoint that is shared in the industry. In the report of the Bureau of Industry Unfortunately, he is of no value as a sire. Economics, which was published last year, it is stated that Brisbane's port won hands down. It The last comment that I would make is that I was much cheaper than ports in Sydney, find it a little bit disconcerting and certainly very Melbourne, Adelaide and, indeed, much sad because, as I said, the destruction order on cheaper than the port at Fremantle. The port of the animals was not an easy decision for either Brisbane is the cheapest capital city port in the Minister for Primary Industries or me to make. Australia for the shipping industry to use. They will certainly be put down in a very humane manner. However, I simply put this case to those I might say that, since the Bureau of Industry who would plead—as I understand somebody Economics put those figures together, this from the scientific community is alleged to have Government has put in place a series of initiatives said last night in a radio interview from to capitalise upon Brisbane's port advantage. Atlanta—that the horses should be kept alive: let Members might recall that this Government me say that as an animal lover and as a lover of announced significant reductions in pilotage and thoroughbred racehorses, I could think of conservancy charges—a 50 per cent reduction nothing more distasteful than the animals which in conservancy—and if the Brisbane marine have been infected being kept alive simply as pilots are prepared to adopt similar productivity experimental guinea pigs for the scientific levels of other pilotage services in the State, we community. I think that a far more humane thing will also effect a 50 per cent reduction in pilotage to do is to have the animals put down. charges in the port of Brisbane. As well, earlier this week in response to another honourable member, I was able to report that because of the Brisbane Port Authority growth of trade in the port of Brisbane towage Mr SZCZERBANIK: My second question costs have also been reduced significantly. is: we would like to know what horse is going to The last point that I want to make is that, win the Melbourne Cup. But that is another despite the negative talk and the talking down matter. I direct my second question to the that we have come to expect from the Deputy Minister for Transport. I ask: is the Minister aware Leader of the Liberal Party—I think that he is the of allegations by the member for Clayfield that Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party; he may have the costs of the Brisbane Port Authority compare aspirations for greater things but at present he is unfavourably with the cost of other Australia the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party—cargo capital city ports, and can he advise of any charges in the port of Brisbane have not been comparison of the Brisbane Port Authority with increased since 1982. For the benefit of the other Australian ports? member for Clayfield, I point out that, although Mr HAMILL: I was concerned to hear the those charges have not increased since 1982, in member for Clayfield running down the real terms those cargo charges in the port of performance of the port of Brisbane, suggesting Brisbane have been reduced by 90 per cent that other capital city ports were cheaper and, over the last 12 years. That is a pretty magnificent indeed, because of its pricing policies, that the achievement. port of Brisbane was actually discouraging trade. Some people take the claims of the member Class Sizes for Clayfield with a grain of salt. However, I Mr LINGARD: In directing a question to though that, just maybe, he may have the Premier, I point out that in 1989 Labor Legislative Assembly 9965 26 October 1994 promised as a matter of priority to eliminate asked during question time today—the answers oversized classes, yet a recent survey by the are not forthcoming. Queensland Teachers Union found that Every time he was asked that question, the oversized classes are at their highest level for Premier referred to the Budget papers and said, five years, with 32 000 primary school children "We have spent this amount of money on this being taught in such classes, and I ask: can he program." At no stage did the Premier address explain why his Government has failed to employ the question. At no stage did the Premier say in sufficient teachers to keep his high-priority this House, "These improvements have been at promise? the classroom level." At all times, the Premier ran Mr Littleproud interjected. for cover— back to the Budget papers, and back Mr Speaker: Order! I warn the member for to the amount of money that has been allocated. Western Downs under Standing Order 123A. I suggest that if Opposition members had directed their questions to the Education Mr W. K. GOSS: In relation to this issue, Minister, they would have received the same one would have to examine a number of factors. I answers. The Government has no answers for think that I pointed out before in answer to a what it has done—none whatsoever. question by the Leader of the Opposition that, for example, when one goes to places in the In bringing forward this debate, we have north west of the State, one can find typically made Labor address the real issues in the student/teacher ratios of 1 to 8 and 1 to 9. education debate. Members opposite might not Clearly, the number will vary from place to place. It like it—and they do not like it—but they have to would be unfair to the people of western come to terms with what their education policies Queensland if we imposed a ratio of 1 to 24 or 1 are producing, how they have spent the money to 25 on them. So there will always be some and what the outcomes are. classes that are above the accepted ratio. Let us look at some of those outcomes. However, there are so many classes below that After five years, what have we got? Teacher ratio. That is my point—the inability of the Leader morale in the State school system is at its lowest of the National Party and the Deputy Leader to point ever. The stress levels are at their highest tell the whole truth. point. The Minister for Education himself admits Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for that this year the Government is spending more questions with or without notice has expired. money on teacher stress relief than ever before. What sort of a working environment in schools have we when we have low teacher morale and MATTER OF SPECIAL PUBLIC high stress levels? We depend upon staff to give IMPORTANCE quality work. If we cannot look after our staff, they Education Funding cannot look after the kids. That is the bottom line in this whole debate. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Honourable members, I advise that I have received a proposal At the moment, the system suffers from a for a special public importance debate. The lack of certainty because of the constant proposal submitted by the honourable the changes being made to it. Every time another Deputy Leader of the Coalition is for a debate on change is introduced, the teachers have to the following matter— adjust. Then the people at the top bring in another change—another directive. The system "The failure of the Government to has been in a constant state of turmoil for the provide a high quality education system past five years. That is a direct result of the despite a substantial increase in budget policies of this Government. In those five years, funding." we have had a focus on the administrative and I now call on the honourable member for management systems within the schools. They Merrimac to speak to this proposal. have been turned upside down without regard Mr QUINN (Merrimac) (3.58 p.m.): There is for the effects on classroom teachers, who have no doubt that Labor, in its last five Budgets, has had change right up to their ears. increased the funding available for education. Within the last five years, we have seen a That is not in dispute in this debate. What is in concentration on political correctness and social dispute is how that money has been spent. dogma. Those sorts of things have replaced the Today, we saw a typical example of the Premier commonsense and practical solutions which getting up on every occasion he answered a drove the department beforehand. Teachers question and regurgitating over and over again know that. It is starting to come through in the what the programs have cost, but not what the way in which the department is organised and benefits have been. When we look at what the through some of the curriculum documents. benefits have been—and that question was There is real concern about what is being taught, 26 October 1994 9966 Legislative Assembly how it is being taught, how the schools are being I will move on to another issue. We have organised and the effect on children within the mentioned remedial teachers and physical school system. education teachers. There is no doubt that there The last of my points is the litany of broken has been a reduction in the number of physical promises that Labor has trailed behind it in the education teachers in our schools, despite the past five years. If honourable members read Premier's support for them. Over the past two Labor's 1989 election document, they will see years, the Minister for Education has stripped that it is a document that promised the earth, them away. In the south coast region, we lost 10 moon and stars—you name it, it was in there. But physical education teachers at the beginning of when it comes to delivering on these promises at this year. That is on the record. They wrote to me Budget time, what do teachers get? A bit of red and said that their positions were being dirt thrown at them! That is all they get—no earth, abolished—10 gone. moon or stars. One of the crucial areas is infant class Let us go through the promises. One of the sizes—Years 1 to 3. Currently in Queensland, key areas is staffing. In this place today, we have based on the union figures, 17 per cent of heard mention of the phantom teachers, of single-teacher classes with over 25 students are which there are about 400. The Minister might over the recommended size. But when we look like to tell us whether that number is wrong, at it on a region-to-region basis, the figure goes because in the Estimates of the Department of up to about 30 per cent, according to the union. Education, he admitted that, when those For instance, from memory, Wide Bay has 30 per teachers were budgeted for, those numbers cent of its infant classes over size. One of the never actually appeared in the classroom. When metropolitan regions has up to about 20 per a subsequent question was asked on notice cent. The Darling Downs has about 20 per cent about the exact number of teachers employed as well. In a crucial area such as infant over a period, we came up with a discrepancy of classes—and the Government's own Wiltshire 450 teachers. report recommended that these classes be kept as small as possible—the Government has failed If honourable members want to know why to deliver again. there are oversized classes, insufficient remedial teachers in the electorate of the member for Lastly, we will speak about standards, Woodridge, and why teachers are being cut back because I know the Minister will speak about in certain areas across the State, this is the standards of numeracy and literacy and the way reason: the Government has budgeted for it, and in which they have improved over the past three it has not delivered the numbers that it claims to or four years. The real issue here is: who is have. It has been one con job after another upon delivering the service and who is evaluating the the people and teachers. service? In both cases, it is the Department of Education. It is providing the teachers and Let us go through the promises of the delivering the service. It is doing the evaluation. If Government. It promised to reduce class sizes by we were buying a second-hand car, we would five if there is a child with special needs in the not ask the car dealer to take the car for a spin class. Was that delivered? No. It promise to and give us a roadworthy report. reduce class sizes by five if in composite or multigrade classes. Was that promised Mr Santoro: That's Caesar judging delivered? No. As a matter of high priority, it Caesar! promised to stick to its targeted classes in the Mr QUINN: That is exactly what is going 1989 Budget. Was that delivered? No. We are on. The Minister came into this House and held now at the same level at which we were in 1989. up graphs—probably upside down—that show The Premier stood up in this place and said, that literacy and numeracy standards are "Well, you have got to take these things into improving. But when someone independent consideration. If we reduce class sizes in the city, looks at this matter, it is a different story it will mean something else in the country, and so altogether. The Wiltshire report evaluated the on." What hypocrisy! He campaigned on those standards in schools and looked at what was same figures from the union in 1989. He threw going on. It came back with a scathing criticism of them up time and time again to the Government this Government in relation to the levels of of the day. Now today, when they are thrown numeracy and literacy and the support being back at him, what does he do? He takes the provided in the schools—a scathing criticism. Yet coward's way out and starts to talk about the Minister has the hide to come into this House pupil/teacher ratios instead of oversized classes, and trot out a report from the department by the which is the real issue that the union is trying to department saying, "Look what we have done. address. Literacy and numeracy levels have improved." It Legislative Assembly 9967 26 October 1994 is the old story about a second-hand car being this side of the Chamber at least, I have been roadworthied by its own salesman. spending my evenings attending school award An Opposition member interjected. nights. These nights, when the schools put themselves on show for the whole school Mr QUINN: The Government has no community, are very revealing. They are credibility on this issue, as shown by instructive evenings, because one has the independent analysis. That is why Wiltshire opportunity of learning about a school's activities recommended that we move to an independent during the year. authority to test children in schools, rather than having the department testing its own processes The member for Merrimac said that Labor and workings in that area. In my last couple of must come to terms with what its education minutes—— policies are producing. Anyone need only go to one of those school award nights to see exactly Mr Comben: One! what our education policies are producing. Mr QUINN: In my last couple of seconds, I These nights reveal that we are producing want to make it quite plain that the coalition policy students who aim to excel in all areas of going into the next election will be focusing on academic, sporting and cultural pursuits. They putting teachers back into the classroom where are conducted by confident, articulate and they can do the work, and cutting out extraneous intelligent students who have genuine pride in paperwork—— themselves and their schools. They feature Mr Santoro: And bureaucracy. musical performances by symphony bands, stage bands, string ensembles, orchestral Mr QUINN:—and bureaucracy. choirs, dancers and actors whose level of Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) (4.08 p.m.): I performances surpasses anything that I possibly am absolutely amazed that the Opposition is envisaged during my 11 years as a teacher. They attempting to claim that this Labor Government reveal stories of student activities in fields as has failed to provide a high-quality education diverse as horticulture, film-making, Japanese, system in this State. Its proposition begs the debating and cooking. They give me the question: where have they been for the past five impression that we are indeed producing years? They have certainly not spent any time in students who not only endeavour to succeed to Queensland schools or they could not put the best of their ability in their chosen fields but forward such a proposition. who also have developed a real community spirit Like many other members on this side of the to help others and give something back to the House, I was very disappointed in the level of school community. I am convinced that our speech and debate put forward by the member education system is finally producing students for Merrimac. His anti-Labor platitudes that filled with a wide range of choices and opportunities to up the 10 minutes of his speech revealed how allow them to fully explore their own potential. little he understands about the education system Of course, our education system is not just in this State. In fact, I believe he rarely mentioned about providing opportunities for high achievers; the word "education". it is also about providing opportunities for all Like other parents in this State, I am also Queensland students, and we cannot purport to disappointed that the Opposition is continually be providing a high-quality system unless we are trying to talk down the State school system in looking after our most disadvantaged groups as Queensland. The Opposition tried to do that this well. Let us look at our special schools and our morning in question time and it is trying it again special students. now. Like all other members on this side of the Special schools are attended by the most House, I am very proud of the State school severely physically and intellectually system in this State. disadvantaged students. I have one such school Mr Comben: State schools are great in my electorate, and I have visited many others. I schools. feel only a great sense of pride at the standard of education we are giving those students. I believe Ms SPENCE: State schools are indeed that this society can be proud of the resources it great schools. Someone should tell the gives to that particular group and the level of care Opposition that, because the children who and attention that the teachers and other helpers attend State schools and the parents who send invest in the education of those young people. their children to them know that. It is about time The same can be said of students with disabilities that Opposition members spent some time going who are educated in special units in mainstream to State schools, for they would then be State schools. All of those students are receiving convinced of that. specialist services from speech therapists, This debate comes at a very significant time physiotherapists and occupational therapists. I of the year. In common with other members on acknowledge that, no matter what level of 26 October 1994 9968 Legislative Assembly funding a Government provides for special need for more women in Parliament. At least they therapist services, it will never meet the demand can make relevant interjections! and the State will always be expected to provide The member for Merrimac used as one of his more than it will ever be able to deliver. But I think major debating points low morale amongst we are doing pretty well at this stage. teachers. Where does he get that from? There is Mr Elliott interjected. no evidence that teachers have low morale. Ms SPENCE: People are always going to Indeed, many of my friends are teachers, and they tell me that morale is very high in our State want more therapy services than we can provide. schools. The fact that the resignation rate I am speaking from some experience. I am amongst teachers is one of the lowest we have president of the Narbethong Association, which ever seen in this State certainly does not support is a group that delivers therapy services to the member's argument that there is low morale visually handicapped young people. Years ago, amongst teachers. I think we should be telling that group had to raise its money through parents and telling students that they have some fundraising. In the five years that I have been of the most highly skilled and highly paid president we have not had to do any fundraising. teachers that Queensland has ever seen. We are Now, the group really oversees the spending of starting to see the results of the fine-quality Federal and State Government grants. That is teachers we now have in our class rooms. what has happened to special students and In terms of what the budget increase means therapists in this State. to Queensland students—the Queensland There are many different ways of measuring Government today is spending $1,000 more per the quality of education, and one can only guess student per school year on education than was which one the Opposition favours. It certainly did allocated by the previous Government. That is not favour any measures at all to improve even more significant considering the increased education when it had the chance during its numbers of students in Queensland schools. three decades in Government. In 1989, we There is a very simple reason why education is inherited a run-down education system. In terms the Goss Government's single largest of all Australian education systems, it was the expenditure item: we care about kids and the bottom of the barrel well and truly. That has now future of this State. We want Queensland changed, and it will be changing even more so students to have the best education possible so very soon as a result of the recommendations of that they have the knowledge, the skills and the abilities to compete with anyone in the world, and the Wiltshire curriculum review. That review was we are working closely with the community to the most comprehensive curriculum achieve that goal. investigation ever undertaken in Queensland. I am pleased and proud to be part of a If one considers any area—our capital works Government which has been responsible for not expenditure, our school refurbishment program, only reviving its education system but also school grants, the Helping P & Cs with the Basics breathing new life and new vitality into it. We scheme, our new focus on computers, our new inherited a run-down education system, but we initiatives in curriculum— one will be convinced are rapidly turning it into the best in this country. that this Government is doing more for education than any other Government that this State has Just a few months ago, this Parliament ever seen. approved a 1994-95 Education budget allocation of $2.41 billion, which represents a Time expired. $60m increase over last year's budget allocation. Mr LINGARD (Beaudesert—Deputy This is the fifth consecutive year in which the Leader of the Opposition) (4.19 p.m.): Despite funding provided to Education has increased. the face-value increase in the Education budget, Where is the money going? It is going into the there has not been a corresponding increase in 23 800 class rooms and 1 700 schools around the provision of grassroots services in the this State. Some of it, of course, is going into the education system. One of the very false figures wages of teachers, but that is part of the process that this Government has come up with over the of ensuring that Queensland students have the past five years is the money that has been best teachers possible. If we are not prepared to transferred from the Department of pay teachers a fair wage we will lose them, and Administrative Services to the Education that is clearly not in the best interests of the Department. It is not correct to say that if a school students. now has to pay for telephone services, the Mr Elliott: Did you hear you lost your money being transferred from another candidate for Gympie because he changed to department to the Education Department the Democrats because of your policies? represents an increase in the Education budget. Ms SPENCE: Every time I listen to the It is not correct to say that funding for electricity member for Cunningham, I am convinced of the being transferred from another department to Legislative Assembly 9969 26 October 1994 the Education Department represents an Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of increase in the funding provided for education. It order. is incorrect to say that repairs to schools and Mr LINGARD: Of course the member finds capital works being taken over by the schools at a those remarks offensive because, as I have said, school level represents an increase in education over the past five years, class sizes have funding, because that funding is simply coming increased. There are now 32 000 students in out of another department. classes over recommended maximums. The We admit and we have admitted—and the Queensland Teachers Union has reported that, shadow Minister has said—that there has been and the Government has failed to do anything an increase at face value, but the class size issue about it. Of course the member finds those is a typical example of how the Education remarks offensive. Department has failed to get the services It is about time the Government and this through to the public level. In 1989, class sizes Minister fixed up this problem. The big policy were the big issue in the Education policy. Page which was emphasised in 1989 has failed—the 2 of that policy highlighted class sizes. However, Government has failed to deliver. in the last Budget there was not one mention at all about class sizes, because in basic Mr Elliott: They have delivered on more collaboration with the Teachers Union, the media bureaucracy, though. and all other departments, the Education Mr LINGARD: The bureaucracy is Department said, "We will give the teachers non- laughing. Everyone in the bureaucracy thinks it is contact time if they keep quiet about class sizes." a great game. It is the old socialist attitude—the It is incorrect to say that class size is not an bureaucracy develops, the bureaucracy has a issue. In its most recent survey, the Teachers great time, the bureaucracy has no responsibility Union discovered that, over the past five years, to the grassroots level; it just panders to the there has been an increase in class sizes—we Government. It has no responsibility. It does not have the problem of the maximum number of have to answer to the public—certainly not under students—and 32 000 primary school children the present Minister. Under Labor, Queensland are now being taught in classes over the education is in terminal decline. Students know recommended size. That same survey found it; parents know it; teachers know it. that, in primary school, 17 per cent of Years 1 to 3 Despite the Education Department being classes are over the recommended maximum flushS with cash each year, we have seen size. On a regional basis, 30 per cent of infant ballooning class sizes. As I have said, 32 000 classes in Wide Bay, 22 per cent on the Darling students are in classes over the recommended Downs and 21 per cent in metropolitan east are size. There have been cuts to teacher numbers over size. across the State, particularly in rural areas, and It was incorrect for the Premier today to cite students have been unable to attain entrance to the class sizes in Blackall or Hughenden, university. because they have always had to be that size. To This Government dropped the funding for offer enough subject choices for students in 1 500 places at university which was in place secondary schools in those schools, then clearly before 1989. It always said it would fund it, but it the class size has to be low—and it has always is funding only the ongoing students for their been low. It was low under the coalition; it was second, third and fourth years. There is no low under the National Party Government; it was funding for special places at university to low pre-1989. The Premier gave a feeble, weak overcome the problems that are occurring. and dishonest excuse. However, the National Party Government Surveys from the Queensland Teachers provided that sort of funding. We had special Union show that 32 000 students are now in funding for 1 500 students, but this Government classes over the recommended size. The removed that funding for tertiary places—and I Government must accept that, over the past five will come to that point later. years, class sizes have increased. The Education There are shortages of essential Department has failed to get the money through equipment; limited and nonexistent subject to the service level. choices for students in rural areas; and a total Mr BENNETT: I rise to a point of order. failure by this Government to come to grips with Mr SPEAKER: Order! What is the point of the literacy and numeracy problems of this State. order? The Minister has not delivered to the students or parents of Queensland, and the ALP Mr BENNETT: I find the comments Government stands condemned, especially for offensive because I have seen one-on-one for the way it has tried to hide its lack of delivery. students in Gladstone when it is needed. 26 October 1994 9970 Legislative Assembly

The Minister can stand before the House exercise by the 'bean counters' of Treasury every year and announce increases in Education are Queensland students." expenditure, but the truth is that the money is And that is true. The Education Department has not finding its way down to the service level. How failed to deliver the service through to the can that be when education in this State is in students. such turmoil? Despite massive expenditure on education, many children still have poor reading I also wish to make a point of the emphasis and writing skills. The Aspects of Reading and being placed on the LOTE Program. A Writing Program 1992 Assessment of document in my possession states that all Performance report—a special report—showed students in primary schools will have to have that 12 per cent of Year 5 students, 11 per cent three lessons of LOTE per week. Why? Simply to of Year 7 students and 7 per cent of Year 9 implement the teacher non-contact time. So now students have low levels of reading all primary school students have to have three performance. The writing performance results lessons per week—30 minutes each—of foreign showed that nearly 14 per cent of Year 7 and languages. I do not think that teachers are really nearly 25 per cent of Year 5 students had poor going to say exactly what they think about the LOTE Program, but the Minister has to be writing skills. That is all under this Government, a extremely careful of how much languages these Government which has been in power now for five years, so it cannot use the old excuse of students have to endure. We have problems what it inherited from previous Governments. with literacy and numeracy, yet all students in primary schools now have to have languages for Under Labor we have seen a shift in focus three periods a week. The document states— within the portfolio of Education from the "Consideration will need to be given to provision of quality education to Queensland coordinating the provision of all specialist youth to an inordinate preoccupation with teaching time in each school to allow for departmental administration. One of the biggest non-contact time for primary teachers." mistakes this Government made—and its own people know it—is that when it appointed people All primary school students now have to have to the PSMC, it appointed bureaucrats such as three lessons of languages per week simply so Peter Coaldrake who had no understanding of the teacher non-contact time can be the specific problems in Education. implemented, because when the language teachers are teaching, other teachers will be able I have in my possession a letter from the to take their non-contact time. I ask the Minister staff of a school in the Premier's electorate which how he can justify this. refers to the new budgetary control limit. In the letter, they say that their school is going to be cut Time expired. back from 21 teachers to 18 teachers. The letter Mrs EDMOND (Mount Coot-tha) states— (4.29 p.m.): When I heard the topic of today's debate, I was amazed, amused and delighted "Regionally, there will be a loss of at because it proves something that I have always least fifty secondary teachers and twenty suspected beyond a shadow of a doubt, that is, primary teachers in the allocation to schools. that those sitting on the opposite benches not This is on top of a loss of seventy secondary only never went near a State school when they teachers as a result of the cuts in the were in Government, but they have not been 1993/94 Budget." near one since, and if they had, they would be That letter is from a school in the Premier's own too embarrassed—in common with the member electorate. The letter continues— for Charters Towers who has had to be dragged, "The effect of these cuts in effective kicking and screaming into this Chamber—to teaching numbers will be to increase class take part in this debate. They had to round him sizes and the level of stress already on up like an errant steer. He is too embarrassed to teachers already coping with widespread really argue in this debate, and I am not reforms." surprised. It takes a thick skin for the Opposition to get up and argue—— The letter continues— Mr JOHNSON: I rise to a point of order. "At a time of increased educational That is a slur on the member for Charters Towers. demands on both teachers and students, He was not dragged in here kicking and staffing has been reduced to 1983 levels." screaming, and the member knows it. The letter continues— Mr SPEAKER: Order! I advise the "The real losers in this penny pinching member for Gregory that the member for Charters Towers is well able to look after himself. Legislative Assembly 9971 26 October 1994

Under the Standing Orders, the member does meetings were a bit surprised; especially when not have any right to take that point of order. he leaned over one night and told me that I could Mrs EDMOND: I can understand their not vote on a P & C issue because I was a visitor. embarrassment. But I issue an invitation here and It never occurred to him that I actually sent my now to show each and every member who children to the local State school, that I attended comes to my electorate every school in Mount that P & C for many years and that I voted on P & Coot-tha, and I will show them the superb C issues on a month-to-month basis as a parent. facilities at the Red Hill Special School. That demonstrates the sheer contempt shown Opposition members make these allegations. by the Liberal Party for State education. It is no They should come and have a look at the wonder we have this sort of silly nonsense. facilities. This Government is intent on providing a I can well understand why Opposition quality education to all students of Queensland members have tried to exclude—and I am not and to provide appropriate accommodation that going to let them ignore it—the increased levels is maintained to a level that induces pride, and of funding for each and every school in not prejudice, in the community. It is also intent Queensland. I know my colleagues will agree on providing an education to prepare when I say that I am no longer embarrassed to Queensland students for the twenty-first walk into the schools in my electorate—as I was in century. As every social commentator agrees, 1989 and 1990. No longer do I have to pretend society is going through a period of not to notice that Milton State School only had a unprecedented change at every level. We must strip of paint 20 feet wide on the outside. They therefore educate our children and equip our did not repaint the school inside or outside for young people with the knowledge that will the parents, the kids or the teachers; they prepare them for a lifetime of continuing change. painted a 20-foot strip outside so that the It is not good enough to complete Year 9 or Year Governor could stand in front of it when she had 10 and say, "That was good enough for grandad; her photo taken at the centenary celebrations. it is more than grandad ever had, and we are What a joke! That is the Opposition's idea of never going to change." They have to learn to maintenance in schools. The rest of the school change and adapt all their lives. It is in these did not get painted—not one lick of areas that we, as a Government, are prepared to maintenance. No longer do I have to apologise to act—to introduce technologies into our schools. the teachers and the students of the Ithaca Do members remember what happened Creek State School for the sheets of paint that prior to 1989 when P & Cs applied for funding for fell from the ceiling—or the leaking roof. computers in schools? Mr Lingard might Mr Johnson interjected. remember this. We got a dozen copies of that colourful glossy, featuring photos of Lin Powell Mrs EDMOND: The honourable member throughout, titled, "Where your Education Dollar would not put his studs in there, yet he would Goes"—no money, just very expensive glossies. put kids in there. How I wish I had kept them instead of throwing Mr Nunn interjected. them into the rubbish bin, because I would then Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for have handed them out to each and every Hervey Bay and the member for Gregory! Opposition member every time we had a debate on education. There was money for glossies, but Mrs EDMOND: Mr Speaker, all of the there was no money for computers in schools. schools in my electorate—just as in yours—look There was no money for maintenance, arts, smart, well maintained and something that the sports or anything else. Members should not ask school communities, the Government and this me why I get so angry. I have been involved in local member can be proud of—and I am. education in this State for 22 years, and I Of course, I could go on for the entire remember what it was like. But that is what duration of this speech talking about the sheer schools got. That was the National Party's physical problems inherent at all the schools. I education priority—the glossies of Lin Powell. know that everyone who has been regularly to Many schools were relying on Coles for their his or her local schools over the last five years computers. That was their first opportunity to get would tell similar stories. That is why I know computers. Children begged in the streets for beyond any doubt or any excuse that members dockets, because computers are now basic to opposite have not been to State schools. I education—and they have been since the early could, of course, mention my predecessor—the eighties. This Government has addressed that former Liberal spokesperson for Education and issue, first by meeting schools half way with former president of the QTU, who started subsidies and encouraging them to apply for attending P & C meetings in the middle of 1989. subsidies, and now by recognising that all Those of us who regularly attended those students need ready and regular access to 26 October 1994 9972 Legislative Assembly become familiar with computers— not as a luxury allow teachers to pursue personal professional or a toy but as a basic education tool. Computers development at their own pace at school or at are basic. Every checkout point is now a home, as they please. computer terminal. Every backroom storeman Opposition members interjected. and packer has to be computer literate, but computers and information technology were Mrs EDMOND: I can understand why beyond members opposite, so they forgot about Opposition members do not want to listen to this. it; they neglected it. They slept through the These are not taking place at the cost of the technological tidal wave of the sixties, seventies basics. The basics are important—indeed and eighties, which saw the rest of the essential—to our education system. But they are community sit up and take notice of how recognising the fact that computer literacy is now computers and information technology were a basic tool. It is not enough to be able to read impacting on our lives in every sphere. the easy books. Literacy and numeracy skills still Computers in schools are essential to improve form the backbone of our education system. job prospects for Queensland students and also Since 1989, we have put $17.7m into those to enhance their education. initiatives. Mr Stoneman: She's lost the plot, this Time expired. one. Mr MITCHELL (Charters Towers) Mrs EDMOND: I can understand the (4.39 p.m.): I am still all in one piece, thank member not understanding this, because he has heavens! I did get dragged in here, but I am still in not got past the front page of a computer one piece. I thank the member for Gregory for his magazine. support. That the coalition has felt compelled to The Government is meeting that bring on this most serious education debate commitment not to let Queensland children shows the pitiful neglect of the issue by the become the unskilled, cheap labour work force Labor Government. Right up until this of Australia by spending $40m providing one morning—— computer for every 10 upper primary and Mr Nunn: You wrote this. secondary students. We have already Mr MITCHELL: Yes, I did. I had significantly boosted the numbers of computers representatives from the P & Cs, the staff and in schools, and we will continue to do so and concerned citizens of north-west Queensland improve computer education through training for ringing me and requesting urgent action to avert teachers. a staff crisis in north-west Queensland schools. Mr Stoneman: What about discipline? Parents and students are at a loss to know Mrs EDMOND: Bring back the lash! The what they did to deserve a thrashing at the hand only education policy we have heard from of the Goss Labor Government in the area of members opposite is bring back the lash; whip education provisions. Recent newspaper them into submission; do not let them ask reports—the most recent being in this morning's questions and do not educate them in Courier-Mail—state that, because of the technology, but whip them into submission so reduction in staff numbers, schools in north-west they do not know what to ask. Queensland have been stripped of their capacity Another most exciting move will see all State to provide the most basic curriculum. This is not schools in Queensland receive a CD-ROM news to the hundreds of students, parents and package for the beginning of the 1995 school staff who are struggling to see that their schools year at a cost of $3m to the Government. It is no remain as worthwhile educational facilities. wonder the Opposition did not want this debate The President of the Queensland Teachers to talk about the increased funding. The CD- Union said as follows— ROM library system will enable schools to boast a "Staffing cuts are devastating virtually endless electronic encyclopaedia with secondary departments in north west which students can interact. Queensland . . . Students in north west Mr Elliott interjected. Queensland secondary schools might not Mrs EDMOND: The member has no be taught key maths and science subjects understanding of that. It uses that love of next year . . . because of teacher cutbacks . . learning and that love of interaction to take . smaller schools did not have enough children into a joy of discovery. It gives them a teachers to replace staff whose jobs were thrill, and they love it. This will be applied to all cut." children across the State—450 000 students That is not the stuff of shallow political taunting. from 1 300 State schools will have first-hand experience—not just a few private schools. It will Legislative Assembly 9973 26 October 1994

That is a direct quote of the President and infrastructure that stands as a constant reminder spokesman of the Queensland Teachers of Labor's neglect. Children have to compete at Union—the teachers' own representative body. carnivals and play on what can only be described The fact that there were no opportunities for as corrugated, eroded gravel patches. I have children of the north west or elsewhere to study written to the Minister to see whether we can maths or science at their one and only high obtain some funding to enable upgrading of the school is disgraceful. The impending situation ovals at a couple of those schools so that the has been likened to the experience of the 1950s children can at least have a better standard of when rural and remote-located children did not physical education and sport. have the opportunity to further their education to Education in the north west is defined by the high school and tertiary levels. the erosion of the very subjects and structures The major difference between now and the that should take pride of place at any school. The 1950s is that back then educational defining feature of the fight for education in the advancement was not critical to many of the north west is its accent on basic requirements. personal and professional opportunities available These people do not ask for much. They are to young Queenslanders. But it is now. I know merely asking for the base level of staff, a small that the National Party Government and coalition boost to bring the premises up to the minimum Governments actually put a decent education standard of education facilities, a bus, an oval, system in place in north-west Queensland. A and, last but not least, security of the future for good education is the key to life's opportunities. high school maths and science subjects. It is A deficiency in education means immediate shameful that the communities have to beg for disadvantages in personal and professional the provision of two of the five foundation advancement. subjects deemed necessary in any other State as crucial components of a curriculum. Schools in Cloncurry, Hughenden, Blackall and Barcaldine are all in line for drastic staff cuts The secondary schools of the north west in 1995. The prospect that the local secondary have recommended adoption of the staffing schools may not be able to provide the most model which suits the conditions specific to the basic educational opportunities could force most country. The Minister did speak on this earlier. I to seek the services of private schools and hope that he does listen to the professional boarding schools elsewhere in the State. With people who have put that together. the recent release of the 1995 staff allocations, Mr Comben: I will listen to them, not you. the secondary school at Hughenden has to cope Mr MITCHELL: I did not hear what the with a further reduction of two staff members on Minister said. top of the reduction in staff from 15 teachers to 11 teachers in 1994. The fact is that those Mr Comben: I will listen to them, not you. communities consist of strugglers who are Thank you for the interjection. drought stricken and sapped of resources. Mr MITCHELL: They did send the Private boarding schools are out of the question information on to me. Presently, the staffing because, as I have said before in this House, levels are determined—— most of those people cannot afford to send their Mr Stoneman interjected. children to boarding schools. Mr MITCHELL: Was there static on the The school at Julia Creek has already lost its radio? It was not the station. secondary department because of a lack of numbers. That is due directly to the rural exodus The staffing levels are determined by an of Government agents and public inflexible model with limited suitability to any area services—railways—which is eroding the but the city. I urge the Government to heed this strength of such communities. Its primary school recommendation and to listen to the concerns of is now under threat. The eagle eye of the the principals, the curriculum masters and the economic rationalists opposite is set on ridding human resource managers of the Education Queensland of any evidence of such towns as Department who constructed this model. Hughenden, Cloncurry and Julia Creek. The list The presence of speech therapists and goes on and on. I could name the lot of them. guidance counsellors are needed more and Mr Stoneman interjected. more in the school environment. The Goss Labor Government has not, however, deemed their Mr MITCHELL: I do not know. I do not existence at all necessary. That has been think members of the Government have ever illustrated by the rampant neglect of such crucial been out there to see what goes on in that area. services in an ever-increasing number of schools It is pitiful to see in the schools that remain in around this State. The ignorance that the Goss centres such as Charters Towers the decrepit Labor Government has shown in its offhand 26 October 1994 9974 Legislative Assembly approach to speech therapists and guidance Teachers Union stands up and says, "This isn't officers is disgraceful. good enough", or, "There is something wrong Mr Stoneman: Shame! with State education", there is no doubt that we lose students from the State education system, Mr MITCHELL: It is definitely a shame. because parents across-the-board listen to the Since 1991, speech therapists and guidance "responsible" people of this State and they say, counsellors have been driven out of the "Well, let's go elsewhere." education system. Up to some 14 per cent of the population has a communication disorder; 3 per Mr Quinn raised the matter of teacher cent will suffer severe difficulties; 3 per cent will numbers. Teacher numbers vary considerably. It suffer badly enough to have a serious adverse is with a great deal of difficulty that we try to show impact upon their reading, writing and numeracy that teacher numbers have gone up. It is easy skills; and another 4 per cent will suffer disorders sometimes to pluck out some numbers and say which will affect their literacy and numeracy skills, that they have not gone up. On 10 September their school success, their peer interaction and 1989, there were 25 879 teachers in which will promote behavioural problems. Queensland. On 9 July 1993, there were 27 957. On Mr Quinn's logic, that is an increase One-to-one speech therapy or counselling of 2 100 teachers. Over the coming months, we is effectively non-existent. Scarce resources are will see—— being poached from the primary schools to give to the secondary schools in a belated attempt to Mr Elliott: You tell us in percentage terms rein in the severe implications of illiteracy and that your educational group has gone up in poor communication skills. For every dollar spent population. to treat a child in the preschool year, it costs $6 to Mr COMBEN: If the honourable member treat the same child in primary school, and so the wishes to work out what percentage 2 100 is of price escalates in monetary and social impact 27 957 he can put one on top of the other and costs as the child gets older. multiply by 100. Mr Quinn referred to the number Mr Davidson: Do a lot of kids in your of physical education teachers in Queensland, electorate have that problem? saying that we were stripping the number of physical education teachers. We are certainly not Mr MITCHELL: Yes, very much so—right doing that. Of course, Queensland is the only throughout the whole school. State, apart from Tasmania, that supplies physical Hospitals are being loaded with student education teachers to primary schools. This year, cases, and we know where the public hospital there will be an increase in physical education system is heading. Public health is flat out teachers, because there will be an increase of keeping accident and emergency wards or 260 specialised teachers to provide non-contact operating theatres open. time—actually, 127 for non-contact time, 80 Mr Davidson: Is there any speech therapy additional for the Languages Other Than English available in hospitals? Program and 35 extra teachers for the enrolment growth in the system. Mr MITCHELL: Not in my area, anyway, and in very few places around the State. As I was The member for Mount Gravatt spoke in her saying, public health is flat out keeping accident normal way with pride in the standards of State and emergency wards or operating theatres education, and she spoke especially about open, let alone providing satisfactory speech Narbethong, which is one of those special parts and occupational therapy. of education in Queensland where a range of dedicated teachers produce educational It is a small request by those of the north standards and educational programs second to west to keep their schools. The very least the none anywhere in Australia. I appreciate the Goss Labor Government could do is listen, comments that the member made about consult and respond to the pleas of the parents, Narbethong. If I can just widen that debate for a teachers and residents of the remote moment—recently, I went to Cavendish Road to communities of north-west Queensland and see the Special Education Unit. elsewhere throughout the State. Ms Spence: Also in my electorate. Hon. P. COMBEN (Kedron—Minister for Education) (4.48 p.m.): I thank all honourable Mr COMBEN: That is good. Cavendish members for their contributions to this debate Road is a great school, with great teachers such today. I will respond to a number of issues raised as Donny Shipston, with whom I have had the by a number of members. First of all, I will occasional beer. When I went to the Special respond to Mr Quinn. I make the general Education Unit, I went there expecting to see the observation that every time anyone in normal great commitment that we have. Opposition or a member of the Queensland However, I met a woman named Veronica Maguire, who is herself blinded as a result of a Legislative Assembly 9975 26 October 1994 motor vehicle accident. She is a woman of places, the first thing that the Federal mature age and she was able to show me Government would be saying would be, "You something about what the real challenges for have taken some of that responsibility, even blind students are and how that woman and the though it is a Federal one. Why should we give team in that Special Education Unit were you more? Why do you not just fund some overcoming those special challenges. It would more?" have to be one of the best two or three hours Mr Quinn: What about Cairns? Aren't you that I have spent in the past two years—looking selling a State school to provide capital works, at the tremendous quality and the range of which is a Commonwealth responsibility, in programs that we have in Queensland for Cairns? children with special needs. There was nothing special there apart from the commitment, the Mr COMBEN: The member is pretty good funding and the care and concern of a dedicated at interjecting when someone lets him have a go. staff for students who really needed help. So I Capital works has always been a partial thank the member for raising those matters. responsibility for the State. We have always had to supply the site and provide services to that The member for Beaudesert has not been a site. That is what we are doing in that area; that is great supporter of State education. He raised the what we are doing in a range of places, and it is matter with me across the Chamber during some appropriate. The recurrent funding for places is side play when I said to the member for Charters not the Government's responsibility. It has not Towers that we would not be listening to him been since 1973. about curriculum matters. Clearly, he was transgressing into matters that are the purview of I will continue with the inane comments and the professional, not of me as Minister—apart responses that were made by the member for from an oversight. I was not referring to Beaudesert. In relation to staffing numbers—the resources; I was not referring to policy. It is still my corporate services budget for the Department of proudest boast in my two years as Minister for Education is $105m out of a total budget of $2.7 Education that one of the Opposition billion. That figure represents only 3 per cent of backbenchers said to me the day I announced the total, which more than favourably compares my retirement, "Good on you, Pat. I am sad to with any organisation of the department's size, see you going, but you have been very fair in public or private. education." His actual words were, "You have Mr Lingard: Where has the money gone? been very even handed. I do not know of What have you done with the money? anyone else who has been as even handed." Mr COMBEN: If the member would like to The member complains that I am only a Minister give me a go, I would like to respond to the for one side. I am the Minister for the kids of this matters that he raised. In terms of the State. Some of my backbenchers complain that Department of Education central office, in 1990, the Opposition member's electorate and other just after the end of the National Party electorates held by Opposition members receive Government, there was a total of 906 staff. things when they think that they should receive Today, that number is 625. This Government has them. literally stripped four floors of the building. The Mr Lingard: What about the 500 kids who number of staff who, in 1990, were working in missed out on uni places because you took it the 11 regional education offices around the away from them? State totalled 736. Today, that number is 532. Mr COMBEN: I will answer the member The money is going into capital works, the and I will bring to the attention of the House that increased costs of teachers, the increased this member who is now interjecting—— number of support staff in schools and support Mr Lingard: Missed out because of you. centres and a range of programs such as the Computers in Schools Program and the Back to Mr COMBEN: I will give the member a Basics Program. All of those things cost money. straight answer. The member never takes an The money for education is a good allocation, interjection when he is on his feet with his normal and it is made properly. slime and slander. That is all he is; he is pretty grubby. I will give him an answer. I know that he The member for Mount Coot-tha gave a never gives an answer. The member does not sparkling performance. Again, the member's have to say it five times; I will give him an answer. speech demonstrated her pride in State The straight answer is that the member knows education. I have a feeling that the honourable that both sides of this House, Federal member had been stirred up about the issue and Opposition members and Federal Government spoke straight from the heart. members are now going for a straight deal for Mr Mitchell, the member for Charters Queensland. If the Government funded those Towers, said that the Government was somehow 26 October 1994 9976 Legislative Assembly ignoring the educational needs of the north By his own admission, the member for Clayfield west. I remind him that the School of the Air in said that most of his conversations were done by Mount Isa is new. It used to share facilities with phone. the Flying Doctor Service. This Government has Mr Santoro interjected. improved its resources. Certainly, resources have not been taken from the primary to the Ms POWER: Good on the honourable secondary school. member. He will be the urban cowboy. He should not insult me by suggesting that I am like him. I Can I say, finally, as I prepare to leave am proud to say that I have travelled in western politics—and I have said it once before in this Queensland and visited the colleges many place and I will say it again—I have great pride in times. the students of this State. I believe that they have standards of literacy, numeracy, languages Mr Santoro: You are so sensitive. other than English, computers, instruments and Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Bredhauer): music that we have never before seen in the Order! The member for Clayfield has had his go. history of this State. As I prepare to leave politics, Ms POWER: Thank you, Mr Deputy I am confident that their future is in good hands. Speaker. Those students will be well-rounded students. They will not have the cynicism of the member for I want to address the issue that the colleges Beaudesert. They will be confident to take were established in 1965. The world has on—— changed. I suggest that some members of the Opposition better take their glasses off and take Mr Lingard interjected. a look around. We are not saying that the Mr COMBEN: The member is pretty good colleges do not have a place in rural industry; we for someone who never takes an interjection. are not saying that the colleges do not have a Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for this place in the education of people who want to debate has now expired. work in the rural industries. We are simply saying that the world has changed since 1965, the people in the colleges have changed since 1965 AGRICULTURAL COLLEGES BILL and, therefore, the legislation needs to change Second Reading to take account of some of those changes. Debate resumed from 25 October (see What are some of those changes? The first p. 9940). one, as I tried to point out to the member for Clayfield yesterday, is that there are not as many Ms POWER (Mansfield) (4.58 p.m.): workers in rural industries as there were in 1965, Yesterday during the debate the member for 1975 or, for that matter, 1985. It is not just about Clayfield challenged my knowledge of rural the drought, it is about a whole range of things Queensland and rural training schools or that have occurred. We have seen agricultural colleges. I have taken up that mechanisation and changes in technologies. challenge by deciding to speak to this Bill. His The colleges have to change likewise. That does comments remind me of my arrival in Winton in not necessarily mean that the insulated group of 1978, when the people there decided to take people who served on the boards before and me out on the farm and test me out. I was who represented the industries still need to be standing at a fence waiting for something to there. shock me. They took animals through a race and removed part of their anatomy so that they could The student population of the colleges has no longer produce and threw that at my feet, at changed. No longer do the boys from the local which I just blinked and looked at them. What farms go to the colleges to learn their trade and they forgot to find out was that, of course, I was then go back onto the farms. In fact, in born and bred in western Queensland. My father Queensland we have people coming from all of was a wool classer of great repute. My family are the other States of Australia plus overseas to actually seventh-generation farmers. I learn rural trades at the colleges. So we need to suggest—and I hear it quite often in this take stock of that. We need a broader base of place—that the men in this place assume that people on the boards. That is what this knowledge and experience are the domain of legislation is about. It is not saying that the men, and that woman do not have it. I am here to people who were there did not do their job well. say that, in this case, I do—and much greater The changes have occurred and the legislation experience and knowledge than has the needs to take them into account. member for Clayfield. In fact, yesterday some The universities have continued on their Opposition members, who are not present, told way. We have been known to complain that they me that the member has rarely been west of just train people irrespective of whether there are Ipswich. His own colleagues will not support him. jobs. We do not want that same thing to occur Legislative Assembly 9977 26 October 1994 with the rural colleges. It is no use training people secondary school students serve on school if the jobs are not there. We need to have input boards and on forums in their towns. To suggest from a range of people so that the colleges are that they could not do their work is an insult. on task to produce the types of people who are Mr Santoro: They're not boards of needed in rural industry. management, though. Those sorts of bodies are In my visits to a number of the colleges, advisory bodies, and you know that. particularly to Longreach and Emerald, I have Ms POWER: The senate at the university spent long days looking at the colleges and the is at management level. To suggest that they work that they are doing. I pay tribute to Frank cannot do that is an insult. The honourable Keenan at Longreach, and the former director at member takes no account of the variety of Emerald, Rhonda Gibbons, who took up the students there, including mature-age students, challenge and went to Victoria. Both of those and their ability. I know that the honourable colleges are providing a good service, and they member probably judges them on himself, but have changed. It is no good members sitting in the world is a much more talented place than the here and pretending that they have not. The honourable member necessarily believes it to colleges are changing, and the legislation needs be. to change so that the directors, staff and students in those colleges can get on with the Earlier, I spoke about the boards. I have known members of the boards in Longreach, task. Emerald and Dalby. I know the work that those I would also like to note that on recent visits people have put into the boards, for which I of the Rural and Northern Task Force to western thank them. Again, it is not the intention of this Queensland, I also urged members of the task Government by this legislation to denounce force to have a look at the college. I am proud to them or to say in any way that the contribution put on the record today the names of that they have made is not valued. We are saying honourable members on the Government that society has changed, that the colleges have side—and forgive me if I miss out someone; changed and that the legislation needs to these are the people of whom I am aware—who change as well. have visited the colleges and have seen what is The members of the coalition are occurring. The members for Mulgrave, Nudgee, afraid—and this is their hidden agenda—that Bulimba, Gladstone, Greenslopes, Waterford, they might lose some of their power base. They Sandgate, Brisbane Central and Inala have all do not believe that the only people who can be been visitors to the agricultural colleges and on those boards are the little guild of people have some understanding of the training and the whom they want to put on them. That is why changes that are occurring. Opposition members are concerned. As I said, society has changed and the Mr Santoro interjected. colleges have changed. In particular, the population at those colleges has changed. As Ms POWER: No, I am saying that it needs the member for Clayfield did, in one respect only, to be a much wider base of people. That is what rightly point out, in 1965 when the colleges were the legislation is talking about. Again, the established, Mr Pizzey was correct when he said member for Clayfield spoke about the staff, that they would serve their purpose for their local saying that a junior staff member could not go on area. However, as I have stated, that is no longer the board of management because when he went back into the staffroom there would be the case. Not only the local boys but also girls some concern about his representation and work now attend the colleges. As well as that, these with senior staff members. Again, it shows that students are no longer 16 and 17-year-olds. the member for Clayfield did most of his Quite a number of them are mature-age consultation by telephone, because that is not students, and they come from a wide range of how the colleges operate under their backgrounds. management and staff structures at the moment. To suggest that of those at least 160 I have been present at the colleges when students at every college there is not one they have held staff meetings. Everybody is an student who can rise to the task of representing equal partner. But, of course, it will always be the students on the board is a joke. The member for case that whoever has seniority will try it on, if Clayfield stands condemned for suggesting that they think they can and if they think they can there would not be one student who could take intimidate a junior staffer. But it is an insult to put up that challenge. To suggest that, amongst all that on the record as being an excuse to wipe the work that students need to do, they would them off a board of management— simply not find the time to do the work to serve on the because there might be a bit of conflict. They are board is a nonsense. I have seen primary and supposed to be adults and they should be able 26 October 1994 9978 Legislative Assembly to resolve those things in their workplaces. Clayfield, has been to Emerald. I know that to be Certainly, in terms of the board, student the case because I was in his company on that representation and staff representation are occasion. I am confident that the member for fundamental if we are to have good working Clayfield understands what is going on at relationships within the colleges. Emerald. I am aware that he has also undertaken I want to make some other comments before consultations with people on the Longreach I finish. Coalition members continually tell us that college board. they talk to these people in the bush and tell Mr Santoro: And Burdekin and Dalby, too. them what dreadful things the Labor Party is Mr JOHNSON: I take that interjection. No doing. doubt the member's statement is accurate, and I Mr FitzGerald: We tell the truth. believe him. It is wrong to attack someone for Ms POWER: No, the members opposite consulting by telephone. I believe that is a very do not. I was in Longreach for the rural Cabinet effective way of undertaking consultation. I quite meeting. I stood behind the member for Gregory often undertake consultation in that manner. while Dr Tom Murphy told the whole of the Mr Santoro: I just wonder whether the gathering of people from Richmond, Birdsville, honourable member for Mansfield has been out Bedourie—all over western Queensland—that to the rural training schools to talk about this Bill this Labor Government had put its money where or spoken to anybody prior to this. its mouth is, and that it is putting money into Mr JOHNSON: I take that interjection. keeping those towns alive in western Queensland. I have known Tom Murphy for a I place on record my support for the work long time. He is no member of the Labor Party. undertaken at the two agricultural colleges in my electorate, namely the colleges at Longreach Mr Johnson: He's not a member of the and Emerald. Both of those institutions are very National Party, either. highly respected and both are run very Ms POWER: He is a fair man, and he could efficiently. I pay tribute to the director of the see what the Labor Party was doing. This Longreach Pastoral College, Dr Frank Keenan, nonsense that we are always out to get the and to the former director of the Emerald Pastoral people of the bush is just another one of the College, Mrs Rhonda Gibbons. At present, Mr Opposition's furphies. It is not true. I suggest that Alan McGrigor is acting in a caretaker director the member for Clayfield had the phone to his capacity at the Emerald college. He was the ear but was not talking to anyone, and that is how director at the Longreach college prior to Dr he came up with the misrepresentations that he Frank Keenan taking over two to three years ago. peddled. Those people are highly respected This legislation is not about kicking the professionals in their field, and they have done a bush. It is not about kicking rural colleges. It is marvellous job. The success of those colleges is simply about acknowledging the changes that a reflection of the fine efforts of those people. have occurred in the colleges and implementing The Longreach college was initially opened legislation to reflect those changes. I believe that in 1967. It is fair to give credit where credit is due. this legislation will be welcomed. The high-quality composition of the various In the course of my visits to various colleges, boards that have served that college is one of I have witnessed the activities undertaken by the reasons behind its ongoing success. I want them. I saw representatives of the Longreach to pay tribute to two of the early chairmen of the Pastoral College participate in the Diamond Longreach Pastoral College board. One is Mr Shears at Longreach. As I have travelled around John Heussler, who was the first chairman of the with the Rural and Northern Task Force, I have board. From a young age back in the early sixties, seen displays by the colleges at various shows. I I recall that Mr Heussler had great input into the saw displays in Rockhampton at the Cattle Expo. rural industries of western Queensland in In company with the Minister, I have visited these particular and Queensland in general. I was very colleges on a number of occasions. This proud to attend a recent dinner of the Central Government acknowledges the value of and Northern Graziers Association in Longreach agricultural colleges. This Bill does not intend to at which Mr Heussler was presented with life derail them or degrade them in any way but membership of that association. That simply to take them into the twenty-first century. I presentation was recognition of the work that Mr support the Bill. Heussler has undertaken and the vision that he had in the early days of the Longreach Pastoral Mr JOHNSON (Gregory) (5.11 p.m.): I College. want to address a couple of the issues raised by the member for Mansfield. I can vouch for the fact I pay tribute also to Sir James Walker. What a that the Opposition spokesman, the member for great man he is! He has been instrumental in Legislative Assembly 9979 26 October 1994 many of the success stories of central-western by law as an adult? What will occur if somebody Queensland, of which the Longreach Pastoral sues that student as a member of the board? It College is one example. Under his chairmanship, should also be borne in mind that the board has the college progressed tremendously. The power to sue. Under this legislation, I believe that Capricornia Electricity Board, of which he was a such a student is placed in a very vulnerable member and chairman for a long period, and the position. It is totally unfair to place any young Longreach Shire Council are other examples of person in that type of position. If the students successful organisations with which Sir James want an issue to be raised with the board, the has been involved. Those are the sorts of leader of the student representative council can people who have made the Longreach Pastoral do so. I believe that students presently have College the success story that it is today. I pay adequate access to the board. It is unfortunate tribute also to John Kelman, the chairman of the that under this legislation students will be placed Emerald college, and the people who have in such a precarious position. served on the board of that college over a long If a staff member elected to the board is not period. one of the senior instructional staff, he or she The member for Mansfield referred to may be privy to matters to which so-called section change. The agricultural colleges aim to educate heads are not. A private in the Army may not young people in the various facets of the attend the generals' briefings, but that will agricultural industry. The Longreach college virtually be the case under this legislation. I deals with facets of the pastoral industry and the believe that such a scenario is undesirable. Emerald college deals with facets of the As to the appointment of staff members—if agricultural industry. I have said it before and I will there has to be a staff member on the board, I say it again: students at those institutions learn in believe it has to be a senior staff member, two years what most people learn in 10 years of somebody who has high responsibility within the practical experience in the agricultural and bounds of the administration of that college, pastoral industries. somebody who has a firm understanding of the Today, we live in a society that demands ongoing everyday events of the college and who quality. The young men and women who pass fully understands how that college is run. As I through the doors of the agricultural colleges are said, I do not have any difficulty with a staff certainly shaped into quality products. I am member being on the board as long as that confident that the colleges are doing the right member is a senior instructional staff member. I thing by those young people. They are the believe that that is the right way to approach the future leaders of agropolitics and every other appointment of a staff member. facet of the agricultural industry. I pay tribute to Clause 8 deals with the powers of the board. the success of the colleges to date. From 1967 Can honourable members see any student who when the Longreach college first opened and is in the process of basic learning being able to from 1971 when the Emerald college first adequately service these requirements? Say, for opened, only positive comments can be made example, a student board member from the about those two institutions. Longreach college is up at Milungra, or out at Mr J. H. Sullivan: Do you think any of Coorabulka, or somewhere in one of the far- these future leaders should be allowed to sit on distant camps, gaining work experience, and a the board? board meeting is to be held. In those Mr JOHNSON: I will answer that circumstances, that student would have to travel interjection right now. I have nothing against some 600 or 700 kilometres back to Longreach students sitting on the board, but it places them to attend that meeting. These are the in a very difficult position. After all, they are requirements that I believe have not been members of the student community and they are considered in this legislation. there for one specific reason: to learn the basics Mr Stoneman: They have student bodies as well as the finer points of the agricultural now, and these people are not going to be there industry. I believe that those students have more 10 minutes. important issues to be concerned about than Mr JOHNSON: The member for Burdekin being a member of the board of their respective has raised a very good point. I mentioned the agricultural colleges. student body a moment ago. Honourable Mr J. H. Sullivan: Fractured logic, I think. members should bear in mind that these Mr JOHNSON: I do not agree. If I were a students are only at these colleges for two years. parent, I would not want my son or daughter to Mr Stoneman: A lot of them only one be active in one of those positions. What year. happens if a student representative is not 18 years of age—in other words, is not recognised 26 October 1994 9980 Legislative Assembly

Mr JOHNSON: That is right. Many of them and women who have gone through the are first-year students, and they are not eligible campuses over the years. Since 1967, the to be a member of the board. A second-year, campus at Longreach has had a great record. I board member student could miss meetings as a know that, since 1971, the college at Emerald result of outside practical activity, and I think that has had a great record, as, no doubt, have the it is unfair to place this responsibility on such a colleges at Burdekin and Dalby. student. Mr Stoneman: They're good people. Mr Stoneman: They are just trying to be Mr JOHNSON: As the member for politically correct and they are losing sight of the Burdekin says, they are good people. They are Bill. good, sound, solid citizens and they are Mr JOHNSON: Yes. I also want to know responsible and caring people. When they are what happens if that student board member falls placed in these positions, many times they take foul of the college rules and is expelled or more care and responsibility in the running of suspended for a period of time. Given time, this these institutions than they do in looking after will happen; there is no doubt about that. Over a their own enterprises. These people worry about period, we see that some people violate rules, these places, and they continue to worry about and we cannot for one moment guarantee that a the ongoing practices of these colleges. They student board member will not fall foul of the do what they can to ensure that these young rules and regulations of the college. I am not men and women do get that solid, sound saying that all students members will do that, but grounding and go on to be leaders in agriculture none of us is perfect. I believe that we are placing throughout this great State. too much responsibility on these young people The member for Mansfield made reference and I believe that we should be letting the to the fact that these institutions were for use not student representative council speak on behalf only by people from local areas. I know that the of the students of these institutions. Longreach college and the Emerald Pastoral There is another point I wish to make about College have many students from South pastoral colleges. Dr Peter Coaldrake was one of Australia, Western Australia, New South Wales the people responsible for the dissemination of and Victoria. the structure of many Government departments, Mr Stoneman: Papua New Guinea. and if this piece of legislation is as a result of his findings, I believe it is something that should be Mr JOHNSON: True. Those students are rehashed again. It is the case that most things Dr there to take advantage of the expertise that we Coaldrake has touched have turned into have to offer in the field of agriculture. It is monsters. One only has to look at the structure absolutely paramount that the composition of of the Education Department and all the other these boards be maintained at the high quality departments he has touched. The Department we have been used to in the past. Under the of Primary Industries is another. The list goes on directorship of Dr Frank Keenan, and Alan and on. McGrigor and Rhonda Gibbons, these There will also be Government appointees institutions should be able to carry on with the on these boards. I have nothing against level of success we have known in the past. If Government appointees so long as they are something is right—that is, not broken—why fix responsible people who understand the facets it? That is how I see the composition of boards of of the rural industry, whether it be agricultural, pastoral colleges. In closing, I believe that they horticultural, the beef industry, the wool industry are right the way they are and that there should or whatever it is. I believe that if the right people be no change to their structures. are not appointed to these boards, that will place Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (5.28 p.m.): As my a lot of hardship on a lot of people. colleague the member for Gregory said, I would just like to pay particular recognition Government members have been making the to the current board of the Longreach Pastoral comments that we have to change. As College under the very firm and strong honourable members may have noticed in many leadership of Mr Wally Miller. He does a great job. instances, the more things change, the more I believe that the Longreach Pastoral College is they remain the same. one of the success stories of pastoral colleges in The member for Gregory also made the Queensland. It is people such as John Heussler, comment about students coming from a wide Sir James Walker and Wally Miller who have kept range of areas. The member for Mansfield seems firm control over these boards. These people are to believe that these colleges are put in an area visionaries and successful businessmen and such as Longreach or Emerald, wherever it might they are very concerned about the future needs be, and that only people from around those of these pastoral colleges and the young men areas actually attend the institutions. This has Legislative Assembly 9981 26 October 1994 never been the case, and it is certainly not the Mrs Woodgate interjected. case at present. Mr STEPHAN: The member for Clayfield My mind goes back to the first agricultural said that he used the phone to contact people college that was formed. Its principal was John rather than go into particular areas. However, I Parks, who came from the Junior Farmers and understand that from time to time he does visit the Rural Youth. Certainly, he made a great those areas. impact on that first college, as he did on others. In his second-reading speech, the Minister He had the ability to gather around him people said— with a great degree of skill and expertise, and the students had a great admiration for that. So it is "The original concept of the rural not right to say that those who are attending the training schools was to give students the colleges come only from areas close to the basic skills necessary to make them valuable colleges. members of the rural work force, generally as farmhands and pastoral workers." When looking at the format of the I would like to think that we are training young board—and I know this has been mentioned people to be managers and owners of pastoral before this evening—we find, for example, that properties—not just farmhands and pastoral three residents are appointed from the area workers. In most instances, those young people served by the college—which is fair enough, I have been farmhands and pastoral workers. We guess—but there is no guarantee that those want to extend their expertise to ensure that who are coming from that area are going to be they can and do enter their chosen field of involved in the industry skills that the college is agriculture—whichever it might be—and make a teaching. real contribution that will last a long time. The appointed members of the college The Minister also said— board will also include one nominee from local government, one staff member of the college, "The rural sector is facing a significant one nominee of the Primary Industries number of challenges, including drought, Corporation and three nominees of the Minister. distance and competition from overseas Those three nominees of the Minister should countries which are heavily subsidised. come from industries that are mainly involved Therefore, there is a need for the with the courses conducted at the particular Queensland rural economy to become more college. There is no guarantee that that will be competitive and flexible through attention to the case, but I do hope that commonsense will quality production . . ." prevail. Members on this side of the House have No-one would deny that we must be competitive. expressed the concern that this legislation When one considers the support that some seems to represent a great wish for change just other countries receive from Government, we for the sake of change. That is certainly not what I cannot really compete with that, unless we are would like to see happen. The member for also able to give support to our industries. The Waterford said that colleges have been practical, support that those countries receive from and he also spoke about the need for change. Government is not necessarily subsidisation; it is But I hope that this is not one sector that the often encouragement to put in place necessary Government is thinking of changing. I hope that programs such as water and soil conservation the Government is practical. Rural industry is measures. Those are the types of incentives to made up of practical people and practical which this Government can and, I would like to pursuits, and we must ensure that that situation think, would give more thought. does not alter. In his second-reading speech, the Minister Both Government members who have also mentioned value-added products, which are spoken before me in this debate pointed out that very much to the fore in my electorate. Whether they have a base in rural industries. I am sure that this topic comes within rural training schools, the member for Brisbane Central will make the industry or Government assistance is a case in comment that he came from north Queensland. I point. However, I take this opportunity to give the say to him and other Government members that House a couple of examples of the companies the trouble is they left those rural areas too soon. involved in value-added production in my They should have stayed there and got a greater electorate. They include the Nestles factory, understanding of rural pursuits. One cannot get Suncoast Gold Macadamias and Nolan's Meats. an adequate understanding of rural pursuits by The Suncoast factory produces a wonderful being in an area for only a few years during one's product, including chocolate-coated macadamia youth. Although one gets an idea of what goes nuts in presentation packs. Although members on, unless one is involved in a very practical way would like to assist that particular producer, I trust one cannot claim to know about rural pursuits. 26 October 1994 9982 Legislative Assembly that they would not overindulge in that structure was near and dear. He would be product—as supportive as that might be. spinning in his grave if he knew what is being More assistance and encouragement done to the cardinal rules—the valued should be given to young people who wish to principles—upon which the Act that set up the become involved in the marketing and packaging rural training schools is based, as would people of products. I am not sure whether this comes such as John Heussler, Sir James Walker and all within the curriculum of rural training schools, but of the others who were involved at that that might be a starting point. If the Government time—both in this House and in the relevant wants to provide that sort of encouragement and organisations—in bringing to fruition that first a future for rural industries, it should consider college. That happened during the time that I that aspect. was living in the Longreach district. It was something about which, in a practical sense, we In his second-reading speech, the Minister all got to know a great deal. We had our fears also said— then, as practical operators, that maybe the "In a general sense, rural training schools would have too much of an academic schools play a critical role in addressing the structure. Fortunately, our fears were problem of population decline in rural groundless. There have been moments during communities by providing valuable training those years when there has tended to be a small for young people in rural areas as well as drift away from the original principles. attracting non-rural people to careers in the The key to those colleges is in providing a rural industry." practical foundation—a concrete foundation— I believe the Minister got it wrong there. The for young people who wish to go into primary students and others who actually live in those industry at the production level. Some of them, areas are enthusiastic. The most important of course—an increasing number—go on to consideration is viability. Those people face other courses. Those young students are mostly demands and frustration. They endure droughts, leaving school at Year 10 and completing the and they regularly face problems with insects. equivalent of Years 11 and 12 at the rural training This makes it very difficult for people in those schools. There has been an expansion over the far-flung areas to maintain their confidence. years, and I will come to that. I have taken the I hope that the Minister takes my comments trouble to check the ages of the students. The on board. If he does that through the rural Minister says that there has been a change in the colleges, so be it. But I would like to think that he average age of the students. To arrive at the would rather consider them in other ways. I average age that he presents, he has to fiddle believe that our rural industries have a great the books. That is what he is doing. The future, provided they are given a chance. In numbers of the students who are enrolled at the common with my colleagues who have spoken base level of those colleges—the first and before me, I express the concern that the second year level—would be in Year 11 and Year Government seems to be going ahead with the 12 if they were still in secondary school. That idea that we must change just for the sake of average age figure is achieved by including the change. In many instances, rural training colleges short courses and all the other courses such as have played an outstanding role. Their students the diploma courses, of which there are a have been outstanding, and they have made, number. Those courses are good. This and will continue to make, a great contribution to afternoon, I checked whether there has been a rural industries and the Queensland economy. change in the age of students enrolling over the years, particularly at the Burdekin college. In 10 Mr STONEMAN (Burdekin) (5.40 p.m.): years, it has not changed. However, if one takes This Bill is purely and simply about a takeover of the average age of all of those who have the colleges, particularly by TAFE. They have attended, it has changed. been trying that for many years. That attempt goes back way back—almost to the foundation of Those colleges are about providing a the structure of the rural training schools. Earlier, foundation of practical knowledge of primary my colleague the member for Gregory industry. In the old days, going back to the early highlighted the role played in the early formation sixties, the big station properties—the Isis of the Longreach board, which was the first one Downs, the Millungeras, the Chatsworths, the to be set up in this State, and the role played by Portlands and the Mini Downs and all of those John Heussler and Sir James Walker. other large properties in the west were providing a base training structure for young people who I join the member for Gregory in paying wished to go along and avail themselves of tribute to the those people for the work that they practical knowledge that was passed down by did and also to Jack Pizzey, who was the practical operators such as overseers, head Education Minister to whom this training school stockmen, assistant managers and, of course, Legislative Assembly 9983 26 October 1994 managers. In turn, they had the practical input concerns. The ramifications of this Bill are from their board structures and owners. That frightening. I read in the Minister's speech that structure was fast disappearing. That was the original concept of rural training schools was recognised in the setting up of the rural training to give students the basic skills necessary to schools. It was understood that unless structures make them valuable members of the rural work were put in place to fill that gap, students who force, generally as farmhands and pastoral would otherwise seek a career that has a great workers. That is still applicable at this moment. deal of input into providing the wealth of the The rest is poppycock! The rest is absolute rot! nation would have nowhere to go. It is not about We need a capacity for those students to be the primary pursuit of academic excellence; it is able to undertake diploma courses. They need to give the students an understanding of the accreditation so they can go on if they wish—if basics—how to saddle a horse, how to get on they have been stimulated to go to another level the horse, how to look after the horse, how to fix of training. That is fine. But the problem is that a motor, how to drive a vehicle and how to do all this Government is about tearing down those of those things that were a part of jackarooing. In basic structures. It is filtering them. It is watering it those days that industry tended to exclude down through the TAFE system. I am a great females, although increasingly over the years supporter of the TAFE system. I think that for there have been jillaroos. As those opportunities what it does and the benefits it brings to are disappearing, the colleges provide the communities it is a remarkable institution. opportunity for a career in primary industry. However, it must be alongside, not on top of, the Many of the students go on to get further rural training school structure. That is the practical knowledge because they have a base of problem. We are going to see a gradual takeover. understanding and employers can take them on Whether it is intentional, I do not know. I have to in the knowledge that they do not have to teach say that it was intentional back in the days when those students how to catch a horse, shoe a we were in Government. The directorship and horse, weld, fix a motor, pump up a tyre or any of management of TAFE constantly sought to take those other skills that are absolutely essential to over those colleges. They saw them as ripe for the maintenance and operation of any primary the plucking. At long last this Minister has given industry operation. Those employers know that them a key. He has turned the key to the they are going to get young people who have ruination of the cardinal and fundamental had some hands-on, practical experience at principles and structures of those colleges. I say those levels of primary industry. that without equivocation. I have to say that I nearly laughed when I As to changing technologies in areas of land read the Minister's second-reading speech. If it care, pesticides and fertilisers—of course, they was not so serious, it would be humorous to talk exist. However, those students who are in what about today's changes and challenges including are effectively their Years 11 and 12 are not drought, distance and competition from going to those colleges for the technicalities. overseas countries. What poppycock! Nothing They want the broad issues surrounding land has changed in the pastoral industries. That has care, pesticides and fertilisers. They do not want always been the situation. There have always the detailed stuff because they are so busy been droughts, certainly as widespread as the trying to learn the practical, hands-on knowledge current one. Thank goodness we do not have all of the basics of primary industries. Those that many of those. We have always had the students do not want that other stuff. They will problems of distance and competition. In fact, get that training later on when they go to a TAFE the ravages of distance are worse now than they college or on to further education. They will seek have ever been because the Government of the it out when they understand the basics. day in this State is making the tyranny of distance It terrifies me to hear the Minister talk about even worse. It is tearing up the railway lines. It is new entry conditions to training systems. I can taking away the incentives. All of those factors see looming on the horizon people having to sit make the colleges even more important. for a test to get into those colleges. It is difficult The problem is the cancerous approach of already, because there are more applications the department. I apologise to the well-meaning than places in the colleges. That worries me but misinformed members of the department greatly. who may well think that they are doing something Later on, during the Committee stage, I will for this State. They are tearing down a valuable be asking the Minister some questions about the structure. I mean that from the bottom of my structure of the board, which really has me heart. Those well-meaning industry members concerned. Again, that is changing the cardinal who have accepted this as part of necessary principles of the colleges. They are located in change will rue the day that they did so. They four different areas of this State. They are have said to me privately that they have major 26 October 1994 9984 Legislative Assembly located in areas that are unlike other areas. We practical process of preparing young men and can adopt and carry a college's principles of women to play a fulfilling and practical role in management over to another college, but in primary industries. many cases the practical operation of the college Of course, people who were born and bred involves the knowledge of the soils, the seasons on properties naturally acquire an understanding and the reaction of stock to various diseases in of rural industries from the cradle. It is impossible the area where the college is located. There is no for them not to do otherwise. The same applies getting away from that fact. We cannot apply the to people who are raised in an environment of fundamentals of management at the Longreach other fields of endeavour. If people have lived on college and bring them across to the Burdekin a farm, they would have the practical knowledge college because the Burdekin college has of knowing how to drive a vehicle or how to ride a different grass, different soils, different seasons horse, and so on. However, in many instances, and different reactions from those of Longreach. those students in those colleges do not have In one place there are no ticks; in the other place those base skills and need time to acquire them. there are. So for that reason we need to maintain the certainty of a practical input from that These diploma courses are very popular for community. people who have completed Year 12. They think that they are a good idea. However, those However, this Minister is taking away that people lack the practical skills, and because they certainty. He is going to adopt a broad-brush do not have them, there is a gap in their training. approach. He is going to take them from The Minister referred to the average age of anywhere and take away the fundamental right of people undergoing traineeships. I do not know those organisations. Nowhere in this Bill does it whether the Minister did the sums himself and is mention the particular organisations. It refers to trying to hoodwink people or whether, if they are the organisation relevant for that particular not sums, he has been hoodwinked. Of course, industry, but it does not name any of the the ages of the people who are undertaking organisations. This Bill waters down the input of courses after completing Year 12 and the people the industry. As I say, that industry input is who undertake short courses are varied. geared to express itself through the management of the college and the practical Originally, way back in the days when the understanding that the students receive. Longreach college was set up and in 1975 when the Burdekin college was set up, those short I am appalled to see within the Bill a clause courses were not available. They are marvellous that refers to training the board members. The courses. They utilise publicly owned facilities that board members are appointed because they are would otherwise at times of the year be idle. I practical people, but the Bill refers to training applaud that. I think they provide a marvellous them as the chief executive sees fit. Someone opportunity. In fact, I must say that, when my son will have the power to come along with his book finished Year 12, I made sure that he went along and pencil and dustcoat and tell those people to the college and undertook some of those how they should run the board. That may not be courses. They finetuned his skills. However, he the intent of the Bill, but those managers—these is lucky; he was born and bred on a property. So practical and successful people—will be told all he knew how to ride, how to fix a motor and how about their business and how they should run to drive. However, those students who enter the board. The Minister may say, "No, we are not courses after completing Year 12 are missing about that; we are just about the functions of the out. corporate operations." But that is not what the Bill says. It refers to any other things that the I would like to pay particular tribute to the chief executive sees fit. It is carte blanche, and I people who have been involved in the evolution am very worried about it. As I say, this Bill of the Burdekin college. It commenced removes the fundamental and original principles operations before I started to become involved in for which these colleges were set up. the district and entered public life. The initial chairman, Mr Ray Hoey, has in recent years been I am hearing increasingly about students replaced by the current chairman, Mr Les Searle. who enter the diploma courses at the colleges Mr Searle does a marvellous job. However, those after completing Year 12. Many of those board chairmen are increasingly having to students are wishing that they had entered the become de facto bureaucrats. They have to go course after receiving practical training. They find to all sorts of seminars as well as run the colleges. out when they get into the system that there is a As the member for Gregory said, in many gap between the practical training and the instances those people in fulfilling their course. Teachers cannot instil in those students responsibilities as directors are putting more the technical process unless they have a effort into the colleges than they are into their practical understanding of it. That takes me back own properties. So when they are bombarded to what these colleges are really about—the Legislative Assembly 9985 26 October 1994 with all of these things that the chief executive honourable members for their contributions to may deem necessary, we have to be mindful of the second-reading debate. I join with the further call they will place on them. honourable members on both sides of the I would also take this opportunity to House in paying tribute to the members of the welcome—and I have not had the opportunity to boards of the rural training schools, or agricultural meet him yet because he was not available when colleges, throughout the State who have given I visited the college the other day—Dr Jerry fine service to the cause of training in rural Anway, who is the new principal of the Burdekin industry. college. I am sure he will follow in the footsteps of I also join with all speakers in welcoming the previous principals and be supported by people industry focus of those rural training schools, who have been active in the operation of that now termed "agricultural colleges" or "pastoral college for so many years. I will not try to name colleges" pursuant to the amendments before those people because, once I start to name the House. It is quite important that these them, I will miss out others. They are very facilities have a focus on industry and be industry successful in the way they have managed that driven. In that respect, the comments by the practical operation. member for Western Downs are apposite in his I reiterate that, whether or not it is meant to advocacy of the need for the training to be be, this Bill is effectively a takeover of the industry based. colleges by the department and another Having said that, I have to say that the other competing institution. That they should work characteristic of the debate has been the uniform together is fine; that they each have shallowness of the arguments advanced by the complementary support processes is also fine. Opposition in respect of what is after all a very However, it binds them all up with the one piece important matter for the future of our State and of red tape and confounds them with rules, for rural industry in particular, with the exception, I regulations and watered-down cardinal should say, of the member for Gympie, Mr principles. The Government is always very happy Stephan, who made a number of important to talk about fundamental and cardinal principles. points in the course of his speech to which I shall This is patently ridiculous. We are talking about a come in a moment. university. It is not a situation in which the students are there for three, four or five years It will be convenient to remind the House of and then have some experience to bring to bear the process whereby this legislation came before in operations. It is not that sort of situation; those the House. That dates back to 1992 when a students are mainly there for only two years. I report was commissioned by the Vocational have great difficulty in understanding how the Education, Training and Employment Minister can expand the operations of the board Commission to be undertaken by Dr Graham to include young people who really do not have Alexander. That report was to be into a review of the experience to be able to provide input. Queensland's rural training schools. I will table However, those students are going to have a that report in a little while. Dr Alexander is a vote of the same value as the vote of the person of considerable ability, experience and chairman, or the person who has been involved expertise. He was the former Director-General of in the practical industry for many, many years. the Department of Primary Industries during the term of the previous Government. The I also see a problem in the balance of the recommendations of that report have been members of the board. When one looks at the implemented in large part in the legislation which Minister's nominees and the people who are also is before the House. going to be involved—and undoubtedly there will be a token member such as a union I should remind honourable members of representative—one would see that the that, because they might otherwise be tempted industries are going to lose out. This is not about to succumb to the fanciful allegations raised by industrial relations or any of those things; this is the member for Clayfield, the member for about giving those students a practical, base Burdekin and others about the sinister nature of understanding of what primary industries are all the proposed changes. In the course of debates about. It is absolutely nothing more or less than in this House from time to time, I have been that. struck by how out of touch members of the Opposition are with managers in various Time expired. workplaces. I must confess that I suspected that Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.30 p.m. the National Party at least would be in touch with what is happening in the rural sector. But the Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister extraordinary flight of reason which has for Employment, Training and Industrial characterised the contributions of members Relations) (7.30 p.m.), in reply: I thank opposite to this debate leads me to conclude 26 October 1994 9986 Legislative Assembly that they are seriously out of touch with what is committee met on 25 March 1994 when it had a happening. special meeting to discuss drafting instructions This report, far from being a controversial for the Agricultural Colleges Bill. It met again on 6 report which attracted criticism, has in fact been and 7 October 1994, and I am informed by my roundly welcomed by the rural training schools departmental officers that the chairs and college and their boards. Similarly, that report was directors raised no concerns regarding the favourably received by the Vocational Education, proposed legislation. Training and Employment Commission, which is With respect to the criticism of student a tripartite body that includes highly respected participation—I remind honourable members that representatives of industry. So when that was also one of the recommendations of the honourable members opposite rail against the Alexander report, coordinated and processed proposed changes, what they are railing against through VETEC by none other than Mr Heussler, is the package of reforms that was introduced as the person of whom the honourable member for a consequence of the implementation of the Burdekin spoke so positively. In that report, he Alexander report itself. recommended either that there be student The honourable member for Burdekin representation or representation by former waxed loud in his praise of Mr John Heussler, students. VETEC considered that matter and and I join with him in that praise. But the irony was made a recommendation, which I accepted, that that Mr Stoneman seemed to be blithely unaware that should be student representation. that the person with the principal responsibility That is the process whereby we have come for coordinating the work of VETEC in to this legislation. In the course of my visits to the addressing this was none other than Mr John various agricultural colleges and the pastoral Heussler, the person of whom he spoke college—the four sites at Dalby, Emerald, the correctly with such admiration. Burdekin and Longreach—I discovered that the The fact of the matter is that this is yet reforms that were proposed by Dr Alexander another instance where the Opposition is simply were favourably received. Frankly, I am at a loss resorting to criticism and knocking for its own to understand how the Opposition could be so sake. Its members have demonstrated led astray on this matter. themselves to be seriously out of touch with the The central question for the future of rural processes in place in the rural industry and, in training may be put in this way: how is it that we this case, with those involved in training in the should respond to the fact that the agricultural rural industry. industry has the largest proportion of untrained I will deal with those matters in respect of work force of any industry in Australia? This has which the Government decided not to implement been a matter of concern to the Vocational aspects of the Alexander report. Education, Training and Employment Recommendation No. 4 of the report, which was Commission. It has done research into the referred to in the debate, recommended that a projected entry level training requirements for Brisbane-based secretariat be established to the rural industry, and the provision of funds to promote cooperation among rural training these rural training schools is based upon their schools, and that a rural training schools undertaking of the State training profile, which coordinating council be established to promote addresses those needs with respect to upskilling cooperation amongst rural training schools with the work force. TAFE-TEQ and to provide a coordinated avenue Let me, however, do the honourable of informing and negotiating with Government. member for Clayfield the courtesy of dealing with As I indicated in the debate when the the four areas of criticism that he made of the Bill. member for Western Downs was speaking, that The first complaint was that the Bill departed from seemed to me to be an unnecessary the intent of the earlier legislation. In response to bureaucracy and, accordingly, I did not that, let me make two points. The member recommend that to Government. The reason alleged that this legislation departs from the why I did not was that it seemed to me that the original intent that the colleges have an industry same effect could be achieved by strengthening focus. I reject that criticism. This Government is the existing structure of the Rural Training firmly committed to these bodies being industry Schools Coordinating Committee by formally based, and indeed that is why we have decided appointing the Director-General of DEVETIR and to retain them in the form that is set out in this Bill. the Manager, Division of Employment and I might say that I was altogether puzzled by Training Initiatives, to the committee, thus the logic of the honourable member for Burdekin avoiding the creation of additional bureaucracy. and others who argued that this was a subtle way The Rural Training Schools Coordinating of having the colleges taken over by TAFE. The Committee meets twice a year. The coordinating Public Sector Management Commission Legislative Assembly 9987 26 October 1994 recommended some years ago that that should enable all members of the community to have occur. access to proper training. Mr Stoneman: That's no The rural training school—after the passage recommendation. of this Bill, the agricultural college— enters into a Mr FOLEY: I hear the honourable member resource agreement with the State training for Burdekin. That was part of the reason why the agency, VETEC. That agreement identifies the Alexander report was commissioned. But the funding that will be provided from State funds recommendation that it be absorbed into TAFE and the course delivery profile expected of each was rejected. This Bill does nothing of the sort. It agricultural college. The resource agreements implements the recommendations of the require the rural training schools, or agricultural Alexander report. colleges, to cooperate with TAFE to improve Mr Stoneman: Ha, ha! access to and delivery of vocational education and training in rural areas. Mr FOLEY: I hear the honourable member I am pleased to say that we now have for Burdekin. Can he tell us any respect in which numbers of female students. At Emerald, some this Bill departs from the recommendations of the Alexander report? 30 per cent of those enrolled are female; at Longreach, the figure is 18 per cent; at Mr STONEMAN: I am delighted to Burdekin, the figure is 21 per cent; and at Dalby, respond to the Minister's challenge. the figure is just below 1 per cent—0.8 of a per Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Briskey): cent. It is important to ensure that those persons, Order! The honourable member will resume his and indeed other persons who may be seat. disadvantaged in their access to vocational Mr FOLEY: Even though vanquished, he education and training, such as Aboriginal and would argue still! I am always encouraged that I Torres Strait Islander people, have proper access must be on the right track in the debate when I to State-funded training facilities. see such vigorous opposition from the member Let me turn to the second criticism made by for Burdekin. It would worry me, however, if the the member for Clayfield, that this somehow honourable member started to agree with some tampers with the administrative structures. Again, of the propositions that I was urging on the I remind the House that far from doing that this Parliament. Bill implements the recommendations of the The honourable member for Clayfield Alexander report, which recommended these referred to the earlier speech of his predecessor very administrative structures, and that includes in the State seat of Clayfield, Mr Murray, who said the participation of students and staff—— among other things— Mr Burns: How many more hours are you "We want to assist in the training of going? more young men for the profession of Mr FOLEY: I note that the Honourable the grazing in the wool industry by the Deputy Premier is so keenly interested in this establishment of a college at Longreach or matter that he has been drawn into the debate. I in its vicinity." am sure that the Deputy Premier would be As my colleagues the honourable member for scandalised to learn that the Opposition was Waterford and the honourable member for actually opposing the participation of staff and Mansfield have pointed out, times change. One students in the boards of these agricultural of the aspects in which they change is that these colleges. That frankly shows just how out of facilities are not there merely for the training of touch members opposite are. young men but for the training of men and As to the third aspect of the criticism by the women. I wish to drive that point home to the honourable member for Clayfield, the allegation Parliament. The fact of the matter is that this of centralising power in the hands of the Minister Government has endorsed a social justice policy and his department rather than in the local with respect to vocational education, training and community—this was really an embarrassing part employment. I will table that social justice policy, of the debate for the Opposition. One does because it sets out the need for funding and expect in this House at least a modicum of planning in this area to be informed by social understanding of the law. One does expect that justice perspectives, including ensuring that all the honourable member will at least know the persons, male and female and from various legislation that he is debating. Yet in referring to groups, should have proper access to vocational this matter the member for Clayfield said— education and training. I am a little surprised that "Honourable members would the contributions of honourable members opposite made no reference to the importance of ensuring that these developments occur to 26 October 1994 9988 Legislative Assembly

appreciate that under the Rural Training would have a keen interest in the funding Schools Act, which has been amended, the provided by this department to the Cooloola boards consist of seven members." Regional Development Bureau, the International Does the member wish to correct that at this Food Institute, Gympie, and the Gympie College stage? of TAFE, to which I had the pleasure of presenting funding some little while ago Mr Santoro: No, I stand by that. precisely to address the need for value adding in Mr FOLEY: The honourable member the food industry. It is that sort of analysis, the should have read the legislation and should have need to ensure that the future of the industry is informed himself better, because provision was being catered for in our training needs, that the made in the legislation for that number to be honourable member for Gympie was adept in amended by regulation, and it was amended by identifying. regulation. It was amended during the term of the The Bill before the House ensures that the previous Government. I refer to the Rural agricultural colleges maintain their Training Schools Regulation of 1989 published independence, that they maintain the high under the name "Craig Sherrin, Acting Minister status that they have earned over the years and for Employment, Training and Industrial ensures that we have a high quality system for Relations", which increased the numbers of providing vocational education and training in the persons on those boards as follows: Emerald to rural sector. I commend the Bill to the House. nine members; the lower Burdekin to nine members; the South Queensland Rural Training Question—That the Bill be now read a School to eight members; and Longreach to second time—put; and the House divided— nine members. AYES, 39—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, The claim by the honourable member about Braddy, Bredhauer, Burns, Casey, Clark, Comben, this increase in numbers was made against a D’Arcy, Davies, Dollin, Elder, Foley, Hamill, Hayward, frank mistake on his part about the actual Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, Milliner, Nunn, provisions which we are supposed to be Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, debating in this House. It is an embarrassment for Robson, Rose, Smith, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., the debate; it must be a sad embarrassment for Szczerbanik, Vaughan, Welford, Woodgate Tellers: the Opposition. It reaffirms my confidence that Mr Livingstone, Budd. Santoro could do for the Queensland branch of NOES, 26—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, the Australian Labor Party what Mr John Howard Elliott, FitzGerald, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Healy, Horan, has done for the Federal branch of the Australian Johnson, Lingard, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Labor Party. With that quality of argument in Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Simpson, Slack, place in this House, it is no wonder that people Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Tellers: Laming, Stephan. would question the gravity of the Opposition's Resolved in the affirmative. handling of these debates. The fourth criticism of the honourable member was to the effect that it dilutes rural Committee interest and input. That is, again, an allegation Hon. M. J. Foley (Yeronga—Minister for entirely without substance. If this Government Employment, Training and Industrial Relations) in had wanted to put these colleges into the TAFE charge of the Bill. system, it could very simply have done so. But far Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. from doing that, it has maintained their independence, and that has been welcomed the Clause 3— length and breadth of the State in these Mr STONEMAN (8.03 p.m.): I have a agricultural colleges. Their administration has query for the Minister about the Definitions been kept completely separate from TAFE. They clause, which states in part— are, of course, part of the vocational education ". . . 'agricultural college' means a State and training system but they are not part of college that is declared to be an agricultural TAFE, and the independence of these bodies is college." established pursuant to legislation. It states further— Let me turn, in conclusion, to what I think was a very positive contribution by the member ". . . 'college' means an agricultural for Gympie, Mr Stephan, because alone amongst college"— the Opposition he identified one of the key effectively having been declared already. Does features of the need for training in the rural this mean that any school—even schools that industry, which is the enormous need for value bear no resemblance to the original meaning of adding in our food industry, and well he might, the basis of this Act—could effectively be because as the member for Gympie, I am sure he declared to be an agricultural college? I draw to Legislative Assembly 9989 26 October 1994 the Minister's attention that section of the original college". How does that process of declaration legislation which described a rural training take place? It takes place in accordance with the school. I acknowledge that we are changing the provisions of clause 4. term "rural training school" to "college", and I With respect to State colleges to which a have no argument with that. The original declaration could be made—clause 4 makes it legislation stated— clear that that applies to a State college that will ". . . a school or an annexe to a State offer courses about agriculture, pasturage or secondary school, which school or annexe animal husbandry; that is to say, it is confined to provides agricultural instruction and which is those colleges, which picks up the same general established for the sole or principal purpose reference as set out in section 3 of the Rural of providing such instruction." Training Schools Act which, as the honourable Then it mentioned "school", whereas the member said, included a reference to providing Definitions refer to "college". Could the Minister agricultural instruction. explain to me how the fundamental and original Mr STONEMAN: The Minister has put his principles of that Act, namely, the Rural Training foot on the sticky paper. Schools Act, have changed so that any school in this State can be declared to be an agricultural Clause 3, as read, agreed to. college under the terms of this Act? Clauses 4 to 6, as read, agreed to. Mr FOLEY: The provision really means Clause 7— what it says. It picks up on the definition of "State college", which has a meaning given to it by the Mr SANTORO (8.08 p.m.): Amongst other Vocational Education, Training and Employment things, this particular clause provides that a Act. This really must be read together with clause college "provides education at an appropriate 4 with respect to the declaration of agricultural standard about things connected with rural colleges, namely, that the section applies to a industry". I previously mentioned my State college that will offer courses about predecessor in the State seat of Clayfield, who agriculture, pasturage or animal husbandry. That made the statement in 1965 that rural training is the relevant clause that gives meaning to the schools were meant to provide training for young process of declaration of agricultural colleges. men entering rural industries. In his reply, the Minister made much ado about my reference to Mr STONEMAN: The Minister has that particular statement. skipped over to clause 4. Subsection (2) states— Just to make sure that I can refute the scurrilous suggestions made by the Minister, I "The Minister may, by Gazette notice, point out that I used that particular statement as declare the State college to be an an example of the intent of the legislators of the agricultural college." day. I did not use that to express an entrenched I come back to my original question. How is it that, preference that does not exist amongst under the terms of the Definitions of this Act, it members on this side of the House for the quite clearly says that it is possible to declare any training of young men only within rural training college in this State to be an agricultural college? schools. The Minister, who obviously has little to It goes around in a circle. I believe this has been criticise in the contributions of Opposition entirely overlooked. The definition then states— members, became very pedantic and very picky and deliberately misrepresented the ". . . 'college' means an agricultural college." predisposition that members on this side of the As I said, it has already been declared. In the House have towards the training of all young drawing up of this Act, why did the Minister deem people irrespective of their sex. We utterly refute it necessary to remove, with particular reference the Minister's suggestion that my use of that to agricultural colleges, the fact that the school or statement, which was made in 1965 by an the annexe—under these terms it could be honourable member who preceded me, attached to another school—and the agricultural suggested that we have a gender preference as instruction component of that particular section to who should be trained at rural training schools. of the Act? I find this most intriguing. The Opposition rejects that. Again, when the Minister has to resort to that trite reflection, which Mr FOLEY: The honourable member's is erroneous and mischievous, it demonstrates question is based on a false premise. I might how very little criticism the Minister has of the assist the honourable member in his arguments put forward by Opposition members. understanding of the Bill. If one goes to clause 3 and looks at the definition of "agricultural Clause 7, as read, agreed to. college", one sees that it refers to "a State Clause 8— college that is declared to be an agricultural 26 October 1994 9990 Legislative Assembly

Mr JOHNSON (8.11 p.m.): While speaking escape the fact that the minimum increase is from to clause 8, I also draw the Minister's attention to nine to 12, which again represents an increase of clause 6. Clause 8 states— one-third in the size of the board. So putting "A college board has all the powers of aside the fact that the size of various boards has an individual, and may, for example— been increased from one to three by a regulation, the Opposition still stands by its claim (a) enter into contracts; and that there has been a very big increase. Perhaps (b) acquire, hold, dispose of, and the Minister may tell us why that particular deal with property; and increase is justified. (c) appoint agents and attorneys; and In relation to the student representation, the Minister and other speakers have made a great (d) engage consultants; and deal of our allegedly being out of contact with the (e) fix charges, and other terms, for people who run and are trained within the rural services and facilities it supplies; training schools. We have spoken extensively to and the practitioners within the rural training school system, and that particular point was raised (f) do anything else necessary or constantly. The point that has just been raised by convenient to be done for, or in the honourable member for Gregory is very connection with, its functions." relevant to the concern that has been expressed I bring to the Minister's attention the occasion of by people who are chairmen of the boards, a student member of the board being under the members of the board and people who operate age of 18 years. I know it might be highly unlikely, in other areas of the rural training schools. We did but it is probable. Would the Minister consider not say that students should not be involved or placing a minor in a situation that has that much students should not have input. We actually responsibility? went one step further and made a very Mr FOLEY: The reference to clause 8 with constructive suggestion to the Minister. respect to the powers is, of course, the powers By the way that the Minister was nodding not of an individual member of the board, be he and receiving that suggestion, it seemed that he or she a minor or an adult, it is a reference to the saw some merit in that idea. We still give it to him powers of the board as a whole. For the for consideration. He should have a look at the purposes of clause 8, the board has a legal section again and consider making provision for personality separate and apart from those the student view to be represented by members who constitute the board. The legal somebody who is not actually a student but who personality is described in clause 6— has recently left the college and who is able to "The college board— make a far more informed contribution to the deliberations of the board. It seems to me that (a) is a corporation with perpetual that is certainly not a bad idea. Perhaps the succession; and Minister may wish to make some comment in (b) has a common seal; and relation to that suggestion. (c) may sue and be sued in its corporate In relation to the main point that I made, that name." is, the power of appointment and the influence The issue really is not one of an individual, that the Minister can have on those particular whether that person is a minor or an adult, appointments—again there is no doubt that, entering into contracts or appointing agents and under the old Act, the Minister could directly or attorneys but that of the college board acting as a indirectly effect only three of the appointees to corporation pursuant to clause 6. the boards. Under the provisions of the Bill that we are considering tonight, as I mentioned Mr SANTORO: I wish to take a few during my contribution in the second-reading minutes of the time of the Committee to address debate, the Minister can influence the nominee the composition and the method of appointment of the chief executive; he has the ability to of the board. In relation to the Minister's appoint three residents of the area served by the reflection that the size of the board had been college and he can have a direct influence there; increased by regulation, I suppose that says a lot he can certainly influence the one nominee of about how deficient the process of doing things the Primary Industries Corporation and he has by regulation can be. the ability to directly appoint three people. The Act that we are replacing is very specific Irrespective of the size of the board, the direct in terms of mentioning the numbers that are influence of the Minister has been increased involved on the various boards. Even if one from three out of seven under the old Act to concedes the point to the Minister that they were eight out of 12. He can shake his head. It does increased by regulation, the Minister cannot Legislative Assembly 9991 26 October 1994 not say that the Minister will explicitly influence accepted that advice; I think that it is reasonable. the appointment, but the potential is there. That is not to say that the other point of view is The CHAIRMAN: Order! I believe that the not arguable. However, in this day and age, there Minister has made his point. The honourable is much to be said for involving those who are member is now going on with tedious repetition. affected, such as staff and students. That is what this Bill does. Mr SANTORO: I am highlighting the major concern that the Opposition has, that is, the Mr SANTORO: I will be very brief. The composition of boards, the way that they are Minister keeps quoting the Alexander report. appointed and their size. It is on this particular The CHAIRMAN: Order! Both sides of clause that the Opposition has most difficulty. I the Chamber will come to order. am trying to stress our concerns, and perhaps Mr SANTORO: It is as if the Alexander the Minister may care to give us some comments report is the source of all wisdom in relation to in relation to those concerns. these matters. The Opposition acknowledges Mr FOLEY: The honourable member's that many of the recommendations contained in comments ranged over this clause and a number the Alexander report are reflected in this Bill. of other clauses, but it may be convenient to deal There is not a problem with acknowledging that. with them all together. Frankly, I admire the However, that does not mean that we have to honourable member's audacity: if I had misled agree with every recommendation that Dr the House about the number of persons who Alexander made. What I am saying, what I have constituted the board, I do not think I would have said and what I will say again is that, under these the barefaced effrontery to continue to particular provisions in the Bill, the Minister will prosecute that argument. Notwithstanding the have direct influence over the appointment of 8 honourable member's error of law with respect to of the 12 members of the board whereas the number, namely, that it was nine in case of previously the degree of ministerial influence in three of the boards and eight in the case of one relation to the appointments was much, much of the others, it was seven prior to the smaller. The Minister can quote all the authority amendment that was made in the regulation to he wants. He can even try to suggest that which I referred earlier. because Mr Alexander was a director-general In answer to the honourable member's appointed under the previous National Party question about what has increased it from 9 to Government, he is a reasonable person. I 12—the answer is pretty obvious, and it is suppose that is a pretty good qualification to obvious from a simple reading of the Bill—one is have. The Opposition acknowledges that and in the extra staff member, one is the student no way does it wish to diminish the status that Dr representative and one is the director-general's Alexander enjoys in the community as a result of nominee. I remind honourable member and that past appointment. What I am saying is that it other honourable members that that was the cannot be denied that under this Bill the recommendation by Dr Alexander in the Minister's power and influence is well and truly Alexander report—the same Dr Alexander who entrenched, and the Opposition is concerned was Director-General of the Department of about that. Primary Industries of the previous Government. In relation to the student and the staff As to all this business about ministerial members' representations, I do not know influence—those positions are appointed by the whether the Minister has been talking to totally Governor in Council. The honourable member different people from those to whom I have been cannot have it both ways. On the one hand, he talking, but if I assume that the Minister has been wants these boards to be there, independent, talking to chairmen and members of the boards reporting directly to the Minister and not as parts and people who are serviced by the rural training of a department; yet, on the other hand, he schools—— makes complaints about it. I refer the honourable member to the Alexander report. There is Mr Foley: I accept that they have a nothing sinister about this; it follows exactly what concern about the student representation. the Alexander report recommended in this Mr SANTORO: Let me simply reiterate to respect. the Minister that many of the administrators have With regard to the suggestion about the a very real concern about the appointment of the student—I accept that the honourable member's staff member. That particular issue of junior staff proposition is an arguable proposition. It is one versus senior staff was well and truly raised with that was entertained and debated by me repeatedly. I think, from the Minister's VETEC—whether it should be a student or a interjection, he acknowledges that we have former student. On balance, VETEC's advice to been talking to the same people. They have me was that it should be a student. I have significant concerns and the Opposition would 26 October 1994 9992 Legislative Assembly have been remiss if it had not voiced those Mr STONEMAN: The member for Gregory concerns in this place. They believe that those has basically outlined the substance of my main appointments could potentially compromise the concerns. I draw the Minister's attention to clause efficiency of the management function, and it is 13 (2) (b), which uses the words "a nominee of for this reason that the Opposition has raised the chief executive of the department". those concerns repeatedly. Obviously, this is where TAFE will come in. What Question—That clause 8, as read, stand happens in respect of fees? I would assume that part of the Bill—put; and the Committee there will be no fees attaching to any of those divided— directorships. I would also like to check whether that applies to the student body, because as it AYES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, stands the directors will be able to claim fees. I am Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Burns, Casey, Clark, assuming that the official members are Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, Dollin, Elder, Foley, Gibbs, separated, because none of them will be able to Hamill, Hayward, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, be paid fees. What happens in relation to "the Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, president of the student body recognised by the Robson, Rose, Smith, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., director as representing the interests of the Szczerbanik, Vaughan, Welford, Woodgate Tellers: college's students"? Again, I raise my concerns Livingstone, Budd that these students have no life experience. NOES, 25—Beanland, Connor, Cooper, Elliott, We could have a situation in which Gilmore, Goss J. N., Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, effectively there are only Year 11 and 12 Lingard, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, students from which to pick the board Rowell, Santoro, Simpson, Slack, Stoneman, Turner, representative. That would present a difficulty in Veivers Tellers: Stephan, Laming any normal situation. I instance lost study time, Resolved in the affirmative. and so on. I would like to put on the record that I The CHAIRMAN: I remind all honourable recognise the sincerity of the Alexander report members that for any future divisions, the time and the input that Graham Alexander had. He is a duration will be of two minutes. person for whom I have the highest regard. I know that this was something that he was keen Clauses 9 to 12, as read, agreed to. to see. That does not necessarily mean that Clause 13— Graham Alexander was 100 per cent right about Mr JOHNSON (8.30 p.m.): We might everything he proposed. In this instance, I do not speak to clause 13 now. This clause refers to the suggest, I say, that he was quite clearly wrong. composition of the board. I thought that we must As the member for Gregory said, we could have been debating this clause before. I wish to effectively have only 16-year-olds, or 17-year- speak briefly about clause 13 (2) (c), which olds at best, from which to choose. The students states— who attend these colleges leave school after "the president of the student body Year 10. Their years at the college are their recognised by the director as representing eleventh and twelfth years of education. If all of the interests of the college's students." those other categories of students are not available, if none of those students seek to go I raised this matter a moment ago in relation on in that college at a particular time, or if there to the student representative on the board. At were no students undertaking a diploma course, this time, I wish to express my reservations about we could see a 17-year-old or, in some weird the fact that a student representative may be a circumstances, a 16-year-old as the president of minor. What was the consultation process? For a student body. That student might have just example, would the Minister like his son or clicked over from 15 years of age—the required daughter to be placed in that position? This is the school-leaving age—and become the head of worry that we in the Opposition have. It is a matter the student body at 16 years of age. of great concern to us. I would not want my son or daughter to be holding such a position. I would ask the Minister about those particular points, that is, the fees and the fact As I see it, it is a very responsible position. that, obviously, the nominee—the chief No doubt the Minister is well aware of that. It is a executive of the department—will be a TAFE position that should be held by somebody who person. I know the Minister will say that that will better understands the administrative procedure not necessarily be so, but that is obviously where of the agricultural college in question. I believe that person will slot in. Obviously, that is the thin that it will place students in a position of end of that wedge. I also ask the Minister to responsibility well before their time. I can comment about study time. Because board understand from where the Minister is coming. members—— However, the student representative could quite easily be a minor. That is our reservation. Mr Purcell: We're bored all right. Legislative Assembly 9993 26 October 1994

Mr STONEMAN: I take the interjection of reference to this position being filled by a the honourable member. A story was told many president of the student body rather than by a years ago—— former student. I accepted its recommendation. I Government members interjected. think it is reasonable, as I said, in this day and age that students and staff have a say in these Mr STONEMAN: This is relevant. A matters. I think that honourable members gentleman spoke to President Theodore opposite are displaying no small degree of Roosevelt, who was a rotund man. The paternalism in the arguments that they are man—and he reminds me of the honourable advancing in this matter. member who interjected—suggested that President Theodore Roosevelt might be well Mr STONEMAN: The Minister cannot advanced in pregnancy. He said, "What are you draw a parallel between students at agricultural going to call it, Theodore?" The president said, colleges and those attending tertiary institutions "Well, if it's a boy, I guess I will call it Theodore; if it in the full sense. Students at agricultural colleges is a girl, I will call it Winifred and, if it just turns out may be in only their eleventh or twelfth year of to be wind, I'll call it Chauncey." In this case, wind education. A university student has to have is what we are hearing from the other side of the completed his or her twelfth year of education House. and then, more often than not, he or she could well be into the fourth or fifth year of tertiary We are talking about the law of the State and education before being elected to president of the impact that this will have on the operation of the student body. We are talking about a four- those agricultural colleges. In all seriousness, I year differential—a major differential, I suggest. ask the Minister: what will happen in a default situation when a 16-year-old or, at best, a 17- The Minister referred to clause 24, which year-old becomes the student representative? states— What will happen to that student's representation "A member (other than the director or a in such a case? staff member of the college) is entitled to be Mr FOLEY: Clause 13 provides for one of paid the fees . . . " the official members to be "the president of the I return to my point. This means that the student student body recognised by the director as representative on the board will be entitled to be representing the interests of the college's paid fees. students". With respect to whether or not such a person receives fees, clause 24, later in the Bill, Mr JOHNSON: To carry on from where the provides— member for Burdekin—— "A member (other than the director or a A Government member interjected. staff member of the college) is entitled to be Mr JOHNSON: I believe that certain paid the fees and allowances that may be aspects of this legislation have been overlooked. approved by the Governor in Council." As to the student member of the board—the In answer to the question from the member for Minister should put himself in the position of the Burdekin—I would assume that in most cases the parents of a student who is under the age of 18. nominee of the chief executive of the He should think about that for a moment. department would be an officer of TAFE, though The other point I want to raise—which I it is possible that it could be an officer of VETEC raised this afternoon in my contribution to the or an officer of the Division of Employment and second-reading debate—concerns a student on Training Initiatives. practical experience on either Milungra or With respect to the concern expressed by Coorabulka station, both of which are located honourable members about having a student on 500 or 600 kilometres from the colleges. What if the board—this was a matter that was debated at that student has to come back for a board some length in the second-reading debate. I meeting? The Minister should consider the would remind honourable members that it is not expense that the college will incur in that novel to have students who may be, for example, scenario. Who will pay for that? 17 years of age representing the student body Government members: Oh! on organisations such as a university senate. Mr JOHNSON: These are the realities. Mr Stoneman: Hang on. That's quite The Minister is giving those young men and different. They are not Grade 11 or 12 students. women a responsibility that they should not be That's different. burdened with. If I were a parent, I would not want Mr FOLEY: The honourable members my son or daughter burdened with that have put their arguments. The recommendation responsibility. that Dr Alexander made is a reasonable one. It was supported by VETEC, particularly with 26 October 1994 9994 Legislative Assembly

Mr STONEMAN: We are talking about the representing persons engaged in the law of Queensland here. I thought that the primary industry of the district . . . " Minister would understand the seriousness of The old Act was quite clear. It referred to "the this situation, although clearly he is out of touch district", but the proposed legislation refers to with the intent of the Bill. I say that with all due "the area". respect. I ask: does this legislation provide, therefore, that the student member of the The CHAIRMAN: Order! There is too council is entitled to be paid a fee? much audible conversation in the Chamber. The Mr FOLEY: Clause 24 of the Bill, to which I Chair is having great difficulty in hearing the referred the honourable member, provides that member for Burdekin. any member other than the director or a staff Mr STONEMAN: The old Act goes on to member is entitled to be paid the fees and state— allowances that may be approved by the Governor in Council. The answer to the ". . . such nominees being residents of that member's question is that it depends on what is district." approved by the Governor in Council. In the case The very wide, totally open-ended section of the director-general's nominee, if that person proposed in the new legislation refers to "the were, for example, a TAFE officer, then I would area served by the college". In respect of the think it would be highly unlikely that the Governor Burdekin college, that means Papua New in Council would approve a fee or allowance. Guinea, Thailand—because we are expanding it Mr Stoneman interjected. with the diploma course and so on— Indonesia, Mr FOLEY: That really depends on as well as the whole of the rest of Queensland whether or not it is approved by the Governor in and into the Northern Rivers of New South Council pursuant to clause 24. Wales. That is the area served by that college. I have no problems with that area being served by Mr Stoneman: So you would not say the college, because that is an important "yes" or "no"—— component of the rationale behind the The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable establishment of the colleges. However, the member has already spoken three times on this proposed legislation refers to the appointed clause. members being able to be drawn from the area Question—That clause 13, as read, stand served by the college. I do not believe that the part of the Bill—put; and the Committee Minister would suggest that we have a member divided— from Indonesia or Papua New Guinea elected to the college board, but if we take this clause to its AYES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, final extension, that could well be the case. Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Burns, Casey, Clark, Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, Dollin, Elder, Foley, Gibbs, We are talking about a statute of Hamill, Hayward, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, Queensland. In the past, the legislation was Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, quite specific. It was a fundamental principle of Robson, Rose, Smith, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., the Rural Training Schools Act that those people Szczerbanik, Vaughan, Welford, Woodgate Tellers: elected to the board be practical operators from Livingstone, Budd the area in which the college was located. The proposed legislation provides the capacity for a NOES, 26—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, global appointment. I ask the Minister to place on Elliott, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Healy, Hobbs, Horan, record the rationale behind this provision and Johnson, Lingard, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, outline how in this instance the word of the law Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Simpson, Slack, might not work against the best interest of the Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, Tellers: Laming, Stephan college. At the end of the day, the best interest Resolved in the affirmative. of the college is educating those seeking to Clause 14— engage in primary industry in an area. We have already seen the watering down of that principle. Mr STONEMAN (8.48 p.m.): Clause 14 gives me cause for concern. Clause 14 (3) (a) We have already seen eroded the states— fundamental principles that were set up by Jack Pizzey and those wise people years and years "3 residents of the area served by the ago. What we are seeing here is the capacity for college;" the direction of that board to be scattered to the On the other hand, the Rural Training Schools four winds. I will be most interested to hear Act specified— the rationale behind how the Minister can take away from Emerald, Longreach, Dalby and the "two nominees of the authority constituted for the State of an association Legislative Assembly 9995 26 October 1994

Burdekin the capacity for practical input into the served". Although I do not have an intimate management of those colleges. understanding of other colleges—— Mr JOHNSON: The member for Burdekin Mr Beattie interjected. has just elaborated on clause 14 (3) (a). It Mr STONEMAN: I will let that minor states— expulsion of air pass me by. We are talking about "3 residents of the area served by the the entrenched detail of the law. This Bill states, college." "the area served", and the area served in this In reference to that, clause 14 (4) states— instance goes as far as Indonesia, the Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea and into New South "A member mentioned in subsection Wales. Then the Minister seeks to draw that into (3) (a) must be a nominee of an entity sharp focus, to use his words—which he has not representing persons engaged in rural used in this instance—with subsection (4), which industry in the area served by the college." states— Then clause 14 (3) (e) states— "A member mentioned in subsection "3 nominees of the Minister." (3)(a) must be a nominee of an entity This is virtually contradictory. As far as I am representing persons engaged in rural concerned, this is a blatant attempt to stack a industry in the area served . . ." board. If the Minister does not like that That could involve someone engaged in the description of it—this means six people from the production of coffee in the New Guinea same jurisdiction, virtually all coming from the highlands because it is served by the area. The same backgrounds, on the board of that college. Minister is looking exasperated. Why six? That is an unnecessary number and it Subclause (5) also talks about "the area will make the board top heavy. served". I suggest that the terms used in this Bill Mr FOLEY: With respect to the and the drawing-up of this particular clause are honourable member for Gregory, the "3 the loosest that I have ever seen in any Bill nominees of the Minister" are exactly the same before this House. It is outrageous that we have as the "3 nominees of the Minister" that were a clause here that is non-specific to the degree contemplated in the previous legislation as that this one is. I again reiterate that I will be amended by the regulation to which I referred exposing the looseness of this clause far and earlier. wide. One would have thought a man with a legal As to the honourable member for background such as the Minister's would Burdekin's attempt to reduce to the absurd the understand all of this. In fact, I have sat with the argument about the area served by the Minister and been awed by his capacities to college—I suggest that the honourable member focus on the detail, yet here he is apparently is being fanciful. He should read subclause (3) (a) blinded. I must say that the extent of his together, as the honourable member for Gregory blindness was left in no doubt when he read his did, with subclause (4), which states— retort. Anyone listening to that would have understood that, quite clearly, the Minister—and "must be a nominee of an entity I must say this with great sadness—does not representing persons engaged in rural understand what this Bill is all about and in fact is industry in the area served by the college." really, in the absolute sense, totally out of touch So the honourable member's absurd examples with the intent of what these schools are all really do little credit to him in this debate. I must about. say, however, that I do pay tribute to the Mr FOLEY: I thank the honourable Burdekin college, as I am very pleased to see member for his awe, but I am not persuaded by them servicing far and wide. Indeed, I had the his reasoning. pleasure of signing the memorandum of agreement to enable persons from Papua New Honourable members interjected. Guinea to attend at that college, and that is all to The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Chair will the good. But the honourable members seeks to begin to warn honourable members shortly. make a distinction without a difference. Question—That clause 14, as read, stand Mr STONEMAN: I understand that the part of the Bill—put; and the Committee Minister probably does not seek to appoint a divided— member from Indonesia or from Papua New AYES, 40—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, Guinea or from Borroloola, or wherever it might Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Burns, Casey, Clark, be. The fact of the matter is that we are talking Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, Dollin, Elder, Foley, Gibbs, about a law that is going to be the law of this Hamill, Hayward, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, State and in each instance it talks about "the area Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, 26 October 1994 9996 Legislative Assembly

Robson, Rose, Smith, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., really boils down to. I must reiterate that this is Szczerbanik, Vaughan, Welford, Woodgate Tellers: absolutely sloppy legislation. Livingstone, Budd Clause 15, as read, agreed to. NOES, 27—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, Clauses 16 to 24, as read, agreed to. Elliott, FitzGerald, Gilmore, Goss J. N., Healy, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lingard, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Clause 25— Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Simpson, Slack, Mr STONEMAN (9.07 p.m.): I make the Stoneman, Turner, Veivers Tellers: Laming, Stephan point—— Resolved in the affirmative. Government members interjected. Clause 15— The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Committee Mr JOHNSON (9.04 p.m.): This clause will come to order. states that an appointed member is to be Mr STONEMAN: Apparently it is more appointed for a term of four years, which important to Government members that they can contradicts the provision relating to student go off to the bar or slumber rather than debate members. We must bear in mind that it will be the laws of this State. We are talking about the highly unlikely that a first-year student will be a right of a member of this Committee to debate member of the board. Therefore, it will most likely this clause. be a second-year student. That student will get Mr FOLEY: I rise to a point of order. The there at the end of January, probably take honourable member's remarks are offensive to all vacation during the year and possibly miss two or members, and I ask that they be withdrawn. three meetings, and at the end of the year the show will be all over. This is very contradictory. I Mr Borbidge interjected. want to drive home this point to the Minister. I The CHAIRMAN: Order! I warn the believe this is an oversight. Opposition members Leader of the Opposition under Standing Order have said before that we are totally opposed to 123A. The Chair will make those rulings. The this. Minister finds the remarks offensive, and the Mr STONEMAN: I support the member for Chair asks the member to withdraw those Gregory in this particular clause and share his remarks. concern. The law of the State will now say that an Mr STONEMAN: What remark? appointed member is to be appointed for four The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable years. Does this mean that, having been member knows which remark. appointed, that member will have to resign annually, or will that member continue to be a Mr STONEMAN: I took the member of the board and represent the student interjection—— bodies two or three years after that member has The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have asked the left the college? I do not doubt the sincerity of honourable member to withdraw that remark. Graham Alexander but, quite frankly, this is a Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of order. legislative bungle. As I understand it, under the Standing Orders Mr FOLEY: The honourable member enforced by Mr Speaker, the Minister has to would know all about legislative bungles. indicate to the House what comments he found Opposition members are trying the patience of offensive. the Committee. They should read clause 18, The CHAIRMAN: Order! I shall deal with which provides for vacation of office, and stop points of order one at a time. I am dealing with making such inane and inaccurate observations this point of order first of all. I have asked the by reading one clause alone. If they cared to read honourable member to withdraw the remark. the Bill, instead of rejoicing in their own sense of self-righteousness, they might enable this Mr STONEMAN: I withdraw the Committee to deal with this matter more remarks—whatever they be that the Minister expeditiously. finds upsetting. Obviously, the Minister is sensitive and out of touch. I understand that, Mr STONEMAN: I take exception to that. because it is difficult for him to grasp the The point is that the board structure is supposed seriousness of what members on this side of the to maintain some sort of continuity. That is why Chamber are talking about. I know that the this clause refers to four years. Now the Minister Minister is frustrated. He would like to charge this says, "He can resign because he ceases to be Bill through as though it was another piece going eligible to be a member." We are well aware of through the sausage machine. that; we can read. So it really means that there will be an annual board membership. That is what it Standing Orders and the system under which we work give us the right to raise points of concern. I am representing my constituents Legislative Assembly 9997 26 October 1994 within the college in my particular area—about Mr STONEMAN: I conclude on the point which I have a great deal of understanding. I also that I understand where Dr Alexander is coming have an intimate understanding of the principles from, and I believe that most members would that set up the rural training schools, which will take up that opportunity in respect of their now be agricultural colleges in this State. For the corporate responsibilities, but this is high, wide Minister to be pinpricked by some degree of and handsome and is a direction at the whim of sensitivity is quite understandable. the chief executive. I rest my case there. I know Clause 25 states— the Minister will not agree with me. I express the concern that has been expressed to me by "The chief executive of the department members of current boards who have a particular must ensure members receive training concern in respect of that area. about the exercise of their functions as members of a corporation that the chief Clause 25, as read, agreed to. executive considers appropriate." Clauses 26 to 50, as read, agreed to. I would have thought that, under the functions of Bill reported, without amendment. this Act, if the Minister had such powers assigned to him that would not be unreasonable. But the chief executive of a department will have Third Reading no understanding of the basics of this particular Bill, on motion of Mr Foley, by leave, read a Act or the operation of those colleges. As I said third time. earlier, they are all part of a grab for power. I know that it will be said that this is about the formal corporate functions that the chief executive ADJOURNMENT undertakes. However, this clause refers to those Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga—Minister functions "that the chief executive considers for Employment, Training and Industrial appropriate". This gives the chief executive carte Relations) (9.13 p.m.): I move— blanche to train board members however he wishes. This has been expressed to me by "That the House do now adjourn." people at the college board level. It is a major concern. I do not know whether they have raised Public Trustee it with the Minister but they have certainly raised it with me in contacts—and, in common with the Mr PERRETT (Barambah) (9.14 p.m.): I member for Clayfield, I apologise for the fact they rise in this Adjournment debate tonight to tell the were telephone contacts. It seems inappropriate House about a good, old-fashioned rip-off by nowadays to talk on the telephone! Those are lawyers. What gives this story an interesting twist, the concerns that I have. however, is that the law firm in question is the I know the chief executive is ultimately Government's own. It is the Department of responsibility to the Minister, but it seems to me Justice and Attorney-General, and more inappropriate that there is not a connection specifically the Public Trustee of Queensland. between the chief executive's capacities and the A constituent has brought to my attention functions of these board—— charges made by the Public Trustee against an Mr Bennett: What a lot of drivel! estate the office finalised. The total value of the estate in question was $123,134.27—the Mr STONEMAN: I beg your pardon. I must proceeds of three bank accounts. The only tasks say that I find it ludicrous that someone is for the Public Trustee involved closing those directing these board members—practical three bank accounts and apportioning the funds people in the operation of the corporate between the five nominated beneficiaries of a structure having to be directed as considered by valid will. That is hardly a lot of work for qualified the chief executive to be appropriate. people. It was not much work, but the Public Mr FOLEY: I refer the honourable member Trustee decided to rip $4,675.99 out of the to recommendation 20 of the Alexander report estate for administration fees. The beneficiaries which this clause adopts and gives provision to, thought that was a bit rich, and so would any namely, the training of college board members. thinking person. I certainly think so and I reckon They are, as has been discussed in the Labor members would, too. committee earlier, exercising functions as My constituent and his family wrote to the members of a corporation. Dr Alexander Public Trustee on 15 August, seeking a review recommended quite rightly that they have the of the charges, and I will quote just a few opportunity to receive training, and this Bill sentences from that letter— makes provision for that. "At the initial interview with Mr. Peter Ryan we were advised that, due to the 26 October 1994 9998 Legislative Assembly

simplicity of the estate, we could apply for a took from the estate simply because the Act reduction in the usual scale of fees charged. allowed that. The work involved here could never As the only assets of the estate are be said to justify what amounts to a commission three bank accounts, all with National of over $4,000 on an estate of just over Australia Bank, we ask that consideration be $123,000. given to the minimum fee being charged on We are left with the suspicion that the Goss the estate. Labor Government is using the Public Trustee Thank you for your anticipated and its clients as a milch cow for the Treasury. We assistance in this matter." are tempted to wonder if Labor has hit on a backdoor way of applying death duties to those Assistance? The Public Trustee did not even estates of which it can get management control. bother to reply! The family had to write again on 15 October. This time, the Public Trustee was asked to provide some sort of substantiation for Sunnybank Electorate; Liberal Party the high fees charged. The letter also pointed Brochure out that two private solicitors had been asked to Mr ROBERTSON (Sunnybank) provide estimates of what they would have (9.19 p.m.): The first shot from the Liberal Party charged for processing a similar estate. Those in the Sunnybank electorate in the run up to next quotations from solicitors in private practice were year's election has not only missed the target but just one-sixth of the amount charged by the has backfired on it. It has come to my attention Public Trustee. That is one-sixth from people the today that the Liberals have started to circulate a Attorney-General likes to criticise when he gets brochure titled "Sign against crime" around the on his soap box. Sunnybank electorate. Unfortunately for The letter concluded this way— members of the Liberal Party, they have got it "I have always paid my bills, my taxes wrong again. Not only is this appalling piece of and abided by the laws of the State but I am propaganda from the Liberal Party factually afraid I cannot accept a charge I consider incorrect, but it is devoid of any policy robbery and grossly unfair from an statements. I believe that they are simply trying to organisation I always thought was there to trick concerned members of the community into assist the Public of Queensland at a signing up for Liberal Party membership. reasonable cost." On the back page of this deceitful That letter finally stirred the Public Trustee. document, which I am sure will be consigned to The letter was answered, and in just a week. It the rubbish bins throughout Sunnybank, was not answered satisfactorily, but at least this residents are invited to join a local Liberal Party time there was a response. An officer of the branch. Who is the contact name? None other Public Trustee informed the beneficiaries of the than the former rising star of the Liberal Party, the maximum fees for estate administration as set out failed candidate for Sunnybank. This is the same in the Public Trustee Act 1978. failed Liberal candidate who has been masquerading himself in the local media as a I will not go into those maximums in detail. "concerned citizen" and claims to have collected Suffice to say that over the page the Trustee over 1 000 signatures calling for a police station listed the charges in this case, and they were the in Sunnybank. But where is this petition? When maximums allowable under the legislation. There challenged in the local paper, the Southern Star, was no mention of the request for a reduction—a this so-called concerned citizen immediately request made in two letters from the exposed himself as the Liberal Party stooge that beneficiaries. he is, because when I invited him to present this I have no objection to the Public Trustee petition to me as his local member in Parliament charging maximum fees if the amount of work put so that I could carry out the duties required of into an estate justifies that amount. I object, and me, he refused. Instead, he responded by rightly so, when the maximum fees are charged saying that the only person he would give it to on a job requiring almost no effort at all. I remind was the Liberal Party spokesperson for Justice, honourable members that the work in this case the member for Indooroopilly. So desperate is he was minimal. There were three bank accounts to to curry favour with Liberal Party head office! close. An office junior probably did that by way of That was four weeks ago and, as yet, the a note to the bank holding those accounts. On petition has still not made it to Parliament. This top of that, the office undertook five very simple same alleged concerned citizen is, in fact, the bureaucratic tasks, and again it was probably the failed Liberal candidate for Sunnybank at the office junior who did that. The total cost for that 1992 elections—the same failed Liberal work was $567. In other words, the rest of the candidate who, earlier this year, ran the failed fee, $4,108.88, was money the Public Trustee campaign for the Liberal candidate in the city Legislative Assembly 9999 26 October 1994 council ward of Runcorn and, more recently, Mr Mackenroth: They can't even get their made another failed attempt to become the State own members for their candidates. director of the Liberal Party. In light of his Mr ROBERTSON: That is right, including continuing run of failures, one would have Sunnybank. If those policies do exist, then I thought that it was time that he was honest with challenge the Liberals to bring them out for local residents instead of sheepishly putting his public scrutiny and debate. The people of name to this highly political and inaccurate Sunnybank and the people of Queensland as a document. Is it not time he stopped trying to whole deserve better from a party that claims to hoodwink Sunnybank residents and admit that it be the alternative Government of Queensland. has just been a cheap political stunt? This failed Liberal Party hack knows that the figures quoted It is clear that the Liberals are re-running and the statements made in the brochure are a their failed and discredited 1992 State election complete fabrication. The facts of the matter are campaign. They have learned nothing and, in the that, since 1989, the police budget in the South meantime, appear intent once again, in the Brisbane district, which covers Sunnybank, has absence of sound, costed policies, on creating increased from $5.5m to $15.9m—a 300 per fear in the electorate by promoting half truths and cent increase. fairytale statistics. The good people of Sunnybank are not easily fooled. Mr Bennett: Good representation! Mr ROBERTSON: I will take that interjection. Approved police numbers over the Mr J. Coughlan same period have increased from 144 to 347. Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) That is an increase of some 140 per cent—seven (9.24 p.m.): I enter this debate to bring to the times the Statewide increase and more than 14 notice of Parliament the unjust and appalling way times the population increase in the South in which the Minister for Racing and the Brisbane district. By early next year, I am sure Queensland Principal Club, the body the members will be pleased to know that Minister set up to run the racing industry, have Sunnybank will have its own police shopfront treated the former chief executive of the club, Mr providing the area with a local police presence for John Coughlan. Recently, the Queensland the first time. Incidentally, this announcement Principal Club reached an out-of-court that Sunnybank would have by Easter next year settlement with Mr Coughlan arising from his a police shopfront at Sunnybank K mart was claim for wrongful dismissal on 1 April last year. lambasted by this failed Liberal Party candidate. The QPC paid Mr Coughlan $230,000 in Fortunately, this view is not shared by the what can only be described as a significant shopkeepers of Sunnybank K mart, or by the vindication of Mr Coughlan and his integrity, and members of a number of Neighbourhood Watch a self-inflicted vote of no confidence in the groups to whom I have spoken since that Queensland Principal Club and in particular its announcement. Chairman, Mr Bob Bentley. When Mr Coughlan I am pleased to inform the House that on no was removed from office after the removal of the occasion have the views expressed by this Chairman of the QPC, Mr Peter Gallagher, he was so-called concerned citizen about the police the subject of a disgraceful campaign of smear shopfront been echoed by the local business and innuendo. This campaign, which was well community, nor has any member of the orchestrated, has undermined Mr Coughlan's community expressed less than full support for ability to secure employment and has left an this important and worthwhile initiative. The unjust and unwarranted cloud hanging over his Liberal Party's brochure says a lot, but promises professional reputation. It is a matter of common nothing. It claims to have policies but, so far, the knowledge that the Minister for Racing bagged only mutterings that the community has heard is Mr Coughlan in racing and other circles here in that it has joined with the Nationals in advocating Australia and in New Zealand. Now that the QPC the abolition of licences for firearms. Need I has been forced into a massive payout to Mr remind the House of the article in the Coughlan, who held the position of chief Courier-Mail last week that states— executive for only one year, the Minister ought to "The laws requiring rifle and shotgun apologise publicly to him, and so should the owners to be licensed would be abolished Chairman of the Queensland Principal Club, Mr by a coalition in Government?" Bentley. The Liberals clearly demonstrate their After Mr Coughlan was sacked, the Minister embarrassment about their own policies by not referred allegations against Mr Coughlan to the putting them in the brochure, or perhaps the Criminal Justice Commission which, in a matter of reality is that they simply do not have any. just a few months, cleared Mr Coughlan of any wrongdoing. The case against Mr Coughlan was 26 October 1994 10000 Legislative Assembly so weak and pathetic that the CJC did not even Given his absolutely pivotal role in Mr Coughlan's bother interviewing him as part of its removal, he should now resign. I am glad to see investigations. Having been exonerated by the that Mr Coughlan does not believe this CJC, Mr Coughlan exercised his right as a citizen substantial payout is the end of the matter. He to seek redress through the courts for the great deserves every opportunity to clear his name injustice done to him. The QPC used every legal totally, and to get on with his professional career. manoeuvre it could to delay the matter coming to Once again, the Minister for Racing has trial. When it became inevitable that these tactics been caught out, and this is a most expensive could not work forever, the QPC offered Mr catch. I do not believe he will have learned Coughlan an out-of-court settlement. By any anything from yet another blunder. The Minister measure, a settlement of $230,000 after just one should apologise to Mr Coughlan for his public year's work is large enough to totally vindicate Mr and private attacks on him. However, I have little Coughlan, and to totally damn the QPC and its confidence that the Minister will do so. There are Chairman, Mr Bentley. two losers out of this sorry chapter. Mr Coughlan At the time of Mr Coughlan's dismissal, Mr may have been given a very high settlement as Bentley was chairman of the audit committee of compensation, but his professional integrity has the QPC. He played a key role in getting rid of Mr been smeared needlessly. The other loser is the Coughlan, just as he played a key role in getting racing industry. It has lost a competent and rid of Mr Peter Gallagher. I cannot think of anyone respected administrator, and it must foot the bill in the racing industry who does not believe that for the folly of those who removed him. the Minister was deeply involved in the removal of both. His claims of a hands-off approach in areas under his ministerial jurisdiction are not Maleny Folk Festival taken seriously in the industry. Mr Coughlan had Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (Caboolture) to be removed because Mr Gallagher had to be (9.29 p.m.): I last addressed the House on the removed. There can be no doubt that the subject of the Maleny Folk Festival in April, at Minister would settle for nothing less. Because which time I indicated that what is a valuable of that, and because Mr Bentley is universally economic generator for this State was in regarded as the Minister's representative and jeopardy unless a new site could be found. I am hatchet man, the name of a good racing official, pleased to report to the House that the Mr Gallagher, was smeared, and so was the organisers, the Queensland Folk Federation, reputation of a highly qualified and competent have now identified and purchased a farm in the racing administrator, Mr Coughlan. The payment Stanmore area just outside of my electorate. of $230,000 is some compensation for Mr I would like to mention the sensible and Coughlan and for what he has had to go through mature judgment shown by the Caboolture Shire over the past 18 months, but it does not erase Council, and in particular the Mayor John White, the damage done to his name by the Minister as they assessed the situation in relation to this and the Minister's representatives on the QPC. purchase. At the time of purchase of the farm, it Before taking up the appointment, Mr would have been impossible for the Queensland Coughlan was a senior executive with Australia's Folk Federation to complete a rezoning premier race club, the Australian Jockey Club in application in order to hold a festival under the Sydney. At the time of his appointment to the correct zoning this Christmas. So it needed an position, he was in line to be the chief executive undertaking from the council before it could of radio station 2KY in Sydney, which is owned proceed with the purchase. by the Labor Council of New South Wales. When Without the ability to present a festival, it he was dismissed, the position was advertised, would obviously have been pointless for them to but it was not filled, I believe, because no one proceed with what is a half million dollar senior enough, or respected enough, was investment in our area. The approach taken by prepared to take on the job. After the way Mr the council is commendable. I would like to point Coughlan was treated, who could possibly blame that out to the House at this time. In the face of them? the facts that they had, they decided that one One presumes that the $230,000 paid out festival could be approved on a consent to Mr Coughlan, plus all the legal expenses, will application, that is, a festival could be held this be funded by the racing industry and by the year between 28 December and 1 January, and licensees in particular. This is yet another impost then the Queensland Folk Federation would be on the industry which, in any case, does not required to go through the normal rezoning believe that it is getting value for money from the processes in order to obtain the correct zoning Queensland Principal Club. This case also for future festivals to be held on this site. reveals just how totally unsuitable Mr Bentley is to be the head of the Queensland Principal Club. Legislative Assembly 10001 26 October 1994

That approach has enabled the festival's Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South) organisers to get on with what is a mammoth task (9.34 p.m.): I draw attention to a public lecture of preparing a new site for a major festival this given by Dr David Grundmann, Medical Director year. Just to recap for the benefit of members—I of Planned Parenthood of Australia and of the point out that the Maleny Folk Festival attracted Bowen Hills abortion clinic, to a bioethics 55 000 people over five days last year. It is on a conference at Monash University on 30 August growth curve. Economic benefits from the 1994. This was no ordinary lecture on the issue festival will flow to the Woodford and Caboolture of abortion, but an unprecedented challenge to communities. These benefits have been what most people would consider reasonable estimated to be as high as $5m in spending, and and lawful, and it is in the public interest to the Queensland Events Corporation has done a address the matter. I table the lecture, lot of work in relation to the benefits of the conference agenda and Planned Parenthood festival. brochure. The site at Stanmore is close enough to Dr Grundmann was speaking in defence of Woodford for there to be a lot of interaction late abortions, beyond the twentieth week of between both the town and the festival for pregnancy, which is the stage at which the festival visitors. A lot of that money will be spent youngest of premature babies are born. His in the town, as it was previously in Maleny. This lecture is remarkable in that he openly claims to economic boost is a welcome shot in the arm for be performing late abortions for reasons that no Woodford given that Queensco Unity Dairy other clinic or hospital in Australia accepts, and Foods has recently announced the closing of its these reasons are of a type that will shock Woodford mozzarella cheese factory, which will ordinary, decent people. be phased out by August next year. Dr Grundmann advocates abortion on It is important to say that the approach taken request at all stages of pregnancy. On page 5 of by the council is also commendable in another his lecture, he stated— way, that is, that the making of the rezoning application gives the community the opportunity "It is my belief that abortion is an to comment on or object to that application on integral part of family planning. Theoretically the basis of actual events on the site rather than this means abortion at any stage of on imagined events, which is usually the basis on gestation. Therefore I favour the availability which objections are made. of abortion beyond 20 weeks." This year, I think the festival program will be He lists the widely accepted reasons for late attractive in itself and some of the acts that will be abortion—saving the life of the mother, gross or appearing will reinforce the economic benefit of fatal foetal abnormalities—and then goes on at the festival to the area. Members would be very page 7 of his lecture to describe additional familiar with the entertainer John Williamson, who grounds on which he provides abortion beyond will be one of the feature artists on one of the 20 weeks, and which he declares to be evenings of the festival this year. Also, for the "unavailable anywhere in Australia other than at younger people, the most peculiarly named folk my clinic in Brisbane". Honourable members band My Friend the Chocolate Cake will be should remember that he is dealing with babies appearing twice. Persons of my vintage will possibly older and bigger than the premature remember the artist Julie Felix, who performed in babies we have in our hospitals. His grounds for Britain on the David Frost shows in the sixties. late abortion include, among others on page 6: There will be over 900 other performers on the "minor or doubtful foetal abnormalities", where five-day program. About 16 stages will be used. the baby may or may not have anything wrong; "major changes in socio-economic By way of winding up my advertisement for circumstances", with the example of stress the festival, I point out that members may wish to related to the death or desertion of a partner. come along to experience the arts and crafts Why this should require the killing of an festival, the food festival, the children's festival, innocent, healthy baby to relieve the stress is not the Murri festival or the ethnic festivals as well as made clear. the folk music. Just for the information of members—and they might like to mark their His grounds for abortion also include diaries tonight—the festival takes place from 28 "women who do not know they are pregnant", December to 1 January at Woodrow Road, with the example given of women who have Stanmore. received incorrect diagnosis of pregnancy, active athletes, or women under extreme stress such as anorexia, exam stress or relationship breakup. Abortions on Demand It is worth keeping these scenarios in mind as Dr Grundmann describes, in some detail, the 26 October 1994 10002 Legislative Assembly methods used for late abortion. In brief, there are Can the abortion, after 20 weeks, of a baby two choices— medical or surgical. whose peers are being cared for in the intensive The medical induction process is described care nursery, on grounds of possible minor on page 3 of the speech and includes, as one of abnormalities, be considered reasonable? Can its disadvantages, the possible delivery of a live any sane person consider reasonable the killing baby. Dr Grundmann therefore uses surgery as of a perfectly healthy baby of this age by the his method of choice—as stated on page brutal puncturing of the skull on the bizarre 4—with the listed advantage of "no chance of grounds that the mother has been deserted by delivering a live foetus". He describes this the father? This is taking place in Brisbane, by Dr process, which involves cranial decompression, Grundmann's own admission, and he does not and I table the description of the procedure from hide what he is doing. I think he grossly a paper given by Dr Martin Ilaskell in 1992 to the misjudges the sentiment of the people of National Abortion Conference in Texas. Queensland, who have not been desensitised to the extraordinary extent that he has, if he This procedure of cranial decompression expects to be allowed to continue to commit would sicken any decent person. It is necessary these repugnant acts on defenceless premature to consider the facts of this practice if we are to babies without public outcry. appreciate the monstrosity of what is occurring in our State. The "method of choice" is being Dr Grundmann appears to be ignorant of or applied, on Dr Grundmann's own admission, to in contempt of these reasonable provisions of healthy, wide awake premature babies on our law, because reasonableness is the guiding grounds such as minor or doubtful abnormalities principle in our abortion law. I call on the or the mother being unaware she was pregnant. Attorney-General and the Minister for Health to In 1986, Judge McGuire confirmed that the law in investigate this most serious matter immediately this State has not abdicated its responsibility as a in order to stop this illegal activity in the interests of basic humanity. guardian of the silent innocents—the unborn. What then has the law to say in response to Dr Grundmann's revelations? Is there not a Mr A. Vaughan responsibility here finally to draw the line? In Mr BARTON (Waterford) (9.39 p.m.): Queensland, deliveries after 20 weeks must be Tonight, I want to place a little of the history of the registered as a birth and, if the foetus is not born Labor movement and union movement in this alive, a death certificate must be issued. A baby State on the record by outlining some of the of this maturity is, in the eyes of the law, a child. achievements of a man who played an important To kill a child is unlawful. I table the relevant role in that union and Labor movement in this sections of the Registration of Births, Deaths and State over some 50 years. That man is Austin Marriages Act, the Health Act and the Criminal Vaughan, who retired in July this year. He gave Code. what can only be described as total commitment With his abortions after 20 weeks, Dr to the Labor and union movement of this State. Grundmann causes the premature birth of a He did the job with a humility and dedication that child, which would have had a chance of living, has seldom been matched by anybody before but which is killed during birth. Perhaps Dr him, during his time and, I doubt, in the future. Grundmann seeks his defence in section 292 of This man gave total loyalty to the members of his the Criminal Code, which specifies that "a child union and to his colleagues, and because of the becomes capable of being killed when it has way in which he did his job he in turn received completely proceeded in a living state from the total loyalty. He is a quiet achiever. body of its mother", and therefore he is not Mr Bennett: And a gentleman, as well. technically killing a child. Mr BARTON: I take that interjection from But section 313 of the Criminal Code fills the member for Gladstone, who knew Austin this loophole. It states— well. He was and still is a total gentleman. "Any person who, when a woman is Austin Vaughan became a full-time official of about to be delivered of a child, prevents the old Amalgamated Engineering Union in the child from being born alive is guilty of a October 1970, and he rose very rapidly to crime . . . " become the State secretary of the new Metal Also, section 294 states— Workers Union, as it was following the "When a child dies in consequence of amalgamation, in 1974, following Walter an act done . . . by any person before or Dearlove. He served as the State secretary of during its birth, the person who did such act that proud union until July this year, but before is deemed to have killed the child." that he was a part-time official from October 1957, having joined the union in 1945 as a first- Legislative Assembly 10003 26 October 1994 year apprentice turner in the railway workshops in Austin always had the strong support of his Rockhampton. family—his wife Jean, his daughter Claudia and In common with many people, Austin his son John. They came from a household with Vaughan was a boy from the bush, a 15-year-old very strong Christian values and beliefs, and they who came down from Pinnacle in the Eungella projected them and worked together very much Valley behind Mackay to start his apprenticeship, as a team in the interests of the labour movement and then went on to hold some of the highest and the union movement in this State. Austin offices in the union movement in this country—a loved railways. As a boy, he wanted to be a national councillor of his union, the father of his porter. He became an apprentice in the railways union, a member of the ACTU interstate and looked after them as a union official. Now in executive and also a very long-serving member his retirement he serves them again as a member of the executive of the Trades and Labor Council of the board of Queensland Rail. I was very of Queensland, now formally known as the ACTU privileged to have had the opportunity to work Queensland Branch. closely with Austin from 1972. He taught me very much of what I know about industrial relations I want to refer briefly to what Austin Vaughan and politics, and he will continue to be a great did as a part-time official, because in the era friend. when he was the district secretary in Rockhampton and then the branch secretary Time expired. when changes were made in 1968 to the Metal Motion agreed to. Workers Union, part-time officials actually did the The House adjourned at 9.45 p.m. organising work. There were very few full-time union officials in this State for most unions, and certainly the Metal Workers Union was no exception. In that era, there were three full-time officials in Queensland. People who were the district secretaries seldom saw a full-time official, but they got out and did the hard work of organising members into the union, following up their grievances and negotiating out realistic solutions. That is the job that Austin Vaughan did during that period. Austin was also very interested in the peak trade union movement, having been a delegate to the Rockhampton TLC for many years, ultimately a delegate to the Trades and Labor Council of Queensland and an executive member from 1974, and he became the president from 1990 up until July of this year. Austin Vaughan's best qualities were the calm, quiet manner in which he went about his work. His skills and manner received their greatest test in the dark days of the 1985 SEQEB dispute. Without his calm leadership and advice, the trade union movement may have reacted differently to the attacks of the Joh Bjelke-Petersen Government, and that may well have resulted in its total destruction. Austin is highly respected not only by his union members and union colleagues but also by business leaders, industrial tribunals and politicians of all persuasions in Queensland, nationally and internationally. Part of the reason that I raise this subject tonight is that, although Austin was respected by many politicians from the other side of the House, on many occasions many people said nasty things about him in this place, and I think it is high time that the facts were placed on the record.