Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 30 OCTOBER 1979

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Papers [30 OCTOBER 1979] Ministerial Statements 1443

TUESDAY, 30 OCTOBER 1979 Wheat Pool Act 1920-1978. Water Act 1926-1979. Harbours Act 1955-1979. Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. S. J. Muller, Fas­ sifern) read prayers and took the chair at Regulations under- 11 a.m. Agricultural Chemicals Distribution Control Act 1966-1978. ESSENTIAL SERVICES BILL Agricultural Standards Act 1952-1972. Fruit and Vegetables Act 1947-1972. Assent reported by Mr. Speaker. Meat Industry Act 1965-1977. Primary Producers' Organisation and STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE Marketing Act 1926-1979. Sugar Experiment Stations Act 1900- RESIGNATION OF MR. T. G. NEWBERY 1976. Mr. SPEAKER: I have to inform the Health Act 1937-1978. House that a vacancy exists on the Standing Cremation Act 1913-1978. Orders Committee consequent upon the resignation of Mr. Thomas Guy Newbery Radioactive Substances Act 1958-1970. from that committee. Queensland Marine Act 1958-1975. By-laws under Meat Industry Act 1965- APPOINTMENT OF MR. C. A. WHARTON 1977. Report of the Bureau of Sugar Experi­ Hon. X. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ ment Stations for 1978-79. Premier): I move- "That Mr. Claude Alfred Wharton, Certified copy of the Financial Statements member for the electoral district of Bur­ of the Metropolitan Transit Authority nett, be appointed a member of the Stand­ for 1978-79. ing Orders Committee to fill the vacancy caused by the resignation of Mr. Newbery." MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Motion agreed to. ALFRED GRANT GROUP OF CoMPANIES Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ FEES PAID BY CROWN TO PUBLIC Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) RELATIONS AND ADVERTISING (11.7 a.m.): I wish to in!or~ this H?use of AGENCIES certain aspects of a major Issue which has RETURN TO ORDER been discussed here on a number of occas­ ions. I refer to the operations of and events The following paper was laid on the surrounding the Alfred Grant group of table:- companies. Return to an Order made by the Some years ago, the Alfred Grant group House on 28 August last, on the of companies was engaged in the develop­ motion of Mr. Austin, showing all ment and sale of land situated in Queens­ payments made by the Government to land. Much of this land was contained in public relations agencies or consul­ real estate developments in the Sunshine tants and advertising agencies or con­ Coast region. Bundilla Lakes was a major sultants during the 1978-79 financial area involved in these developments. A year, stating the names of the considerable number of contracts for the recipients and the amounts received separately. sale of this land were entered into by pur­ chasers situated outside Queensland. The Alfred Grant group of companies had PAPERS apparently entered into an agency rt;latioi_I­ The following papers were laid on the ship with a company known as. Capr~co.rma table:- Finance and Marketing Corporation Limited, which was incorporated in the Channel Isles. Proclamations under The Sugar Acquisi­ Many sales in the United Kingdom were tion Act of 1915. made by a company known as Australian Orders in Council under- Land Sales Limited. Agricultural Bank (Loans) Act 1959- As the House would be aware, the activities 1979 and the Local Bodies' Loans of companies operating outside the State of Guarantee Act 1923-1979. Queensland are not subject .to Queensland's The Banana Industry Protection Acts, legislative control. In a typical case, a sale 1929 to 1937. would be conducted by Australian Land Meat Industry Act 1965-1977. Sales Limited in the United Kingdom. The Milk Supply Act 1977-:J978. funds arising from that sale would then be transmitted to Capricornia Finance and Primary Producers' Co-operative Associ­ Marketing Corporation Limited in the Chan­ ations Act 1923-1978. nel Isles and there, in accordance with the Primary Producers' Organisation and agency agreement between the Alfred Grant Marketing Act 1926-1979. group of companies and Capricomia Finance 1444 Ministerial Statements [30 OCTOBER 1979] Ministerial Statements and Marketing Corporation Limited, a sum In order to resolve the dilemma and in of 45 per cent of all proceeds of such sales order to provide a mechanism whereby pur­ would be deducted by way of commission. chasers from the Alfred Grant group of com­ If the sale was a terms sale, a further sum panies may receive at least a partial refund of 5 per cent would be deducted to cover of sums paid by them outside Queensland, handling fees. and currently held in Queensland on trust, It was then envisaged that the balance of for the purchase of land from the Alfred the proceeds of the sales would be trans­ Grant group of companies, Cabinet has mitted to Australia, where they would be agreed, on my recommendation, to introduce held in trust accounts operated by the Alfred specific legislation. Grant group of companies until such time as The purpose of this legislation will be to the Alfred Grant group was in a position establish a scheme whereby persons claiming to give clear title to the purchasers of such to be entitled to receive a refund of trust blocks of land. monies currently held in Queensland on On 24 March 1976, Messrs. W. G. Jameson, behalf of the Alfred Grant group of com­ K. H. White and P. D. R. Isherwood, panies can make application to the receivers members of the accounting firm of Messrs. and liquidators, furnishing at the same time Coopers and Lybrand, were appointed joint appropriate supporting evidence. and several receivers of the Alfred Grant It is envisaged that advertisements seeking group of companies by the group's major claim to such funds will be lodged in appro­ creditor, Partnership Pacific Limited. priate overseas newspapers. In addition, the On 12 July 1976, Messrs. J. G. A. Tucker receivers and liquidators will write to persons and R. H. Peldan, members of the account­ who potentially have a claim against these ing firm of Messrs. Hungerfords were trust funds at the last addresses known to the appointed liquidators of Alfred Grant Pas­ receivers and liquidators. toral Properties Pty. Ltd., a major member Once all such claims are received, it is of the Alfred Grant group of companies. envisaged that the receivers and liquidators Since then, the receivers and liquidators have based upon the best information available to been attempting to reconcile the affairs of the them, will make a distribution of the trust Alfred Grant group of companies. However, funds. The receivers and liquidators will be major problems have been experienced by required to certify that each distribution made the receivers and liquidators in attempting by them is based on the best information to achieve a reconciliation. available to them in Australia. Amongst major contributing factors to the It is envisaged that where specific amounts difficulties experienced by the receivers and are able to be identified in relation to specific liquidators was the fact that there appear purchasers, a full refund of trust monies will to be substantial discrepancies between the be possible. However, in those cases where accounting records maintained by the Alfred specific amounts of trust funds cannot be Grant group of companies in Queensland and attributed to specific purchasers, it is envi­ records maintained by that group's agents, saged that the receivers and liquidators will Capricornia Finance and Marketing Cor­ make a rateable distribution. poration Limited. In addition, fluctuations in Provided that the receivers and liquidators, the exchange rates between the United King­ in good faith, make the distribution of trust dom and Australia affected the value of sums funds in accordance with the provisions of of money transmitted to Queensland from this scheme, the legislation will envisage the United Kingdom. that they, their employees and agents will be The receivers and liquidators are now in given a personal indemnity by the Queensland the position that they hold approximately Government to the extent of Queensland's $500,000 in trust in Queensland on legislative power. This will ensure that the behalf of persons who have purchased land receivers and liquidators, their employees and from the Alfred Grant group of companies. agents, in their personal capacity only, will Insufficient funds are now available to not be subject to any civil or criminal lia­ develop the proposed subdivisions to the posi­ bility arising out of the distribution of the tion where an individual certificate of title trust funds held in Queensland in accordance would be able to be granted to purchasers. with the provisions of the scheme. In these circumstances, the receivers and The legislation will further envisage that liquidators now find themselves in a position if further trust funds are subsequently where there is no course of action readily received by the receivers and liquidators from available to them. overseas sources, these funds will be dealt The receivers and liquidators have received with in accordance with the provisions of the extensive legal advice from senior counsel, scheme and a similiar personal indemnity, but no appropriate course of action is avail­ to the extent of Queensland's legislative able to them. This legal advice has been power, will be given to the receivers and examined by the Solicitor-General who has liquidators, their employees and agents. advised that there is no course of action This course of action has been adopted in readily available to the receivers and liquida­ order to resolve a problem which current tors to distribute the trust funds currently legislation does not provide for. It is not held in Queensland on behalf of purchasers envisaged that similiar problems will occur from the Alfred Grant group of companies. in the future. Ministerial Statements [30 OCTOBER 1979] Ministerial Statements 1445

I hope to introduce the appropriate leg­ procedures have to be very thorough to islation before the House rises for the Christ­ prevent recurrence when affected piggeries mas recess. are restocked. Honourable members may be aware that pigs on the affected premises in Tasmania OUTBREAK OF SUSPECTED VESICULAR DISEASE were being fed swill, allegedly only bakery OF PIGS IN TASMANIA waste and green-leaf vegetables. One of Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ the owners-Greek migrant brothers-was Minister for Primary Industries) (11.15 a.m.): successfully prosecuted under the Quaran­ Honourable members will be aware from tine Act in February 1978 for attempted Press reports of the outbreak near Launces­ illegal introduction of prohibited goods, that ton, Tasmania, of a vesicular disease in pigs, is, a meat product. The farm is said to be a to some degree similar to foot and mouth meeting place for picnics and other gatherings disease. Fortunately, the latest advice from of the local Greek community. Honour· the World Reference Laboratory at Pirbright, able members may therefore imagine the England, tends to confirm the view that the risk that animal matter might find its way disease is almost certainly not foot and to the pigs, many of which were running out mouth disease. This opinion was reached by in paddocks. the Consultative Committee of the Standing This brings me to the difficult and contro­ Committee on Agriculture, which comprises versial question of swill feeding. It was, the chief veterinary officers of the States and in fact, the risk of an incident such as the Commonwealth, which met in Launceston the Tasmanian outbreak which prompted the immediately Tasmania suspected a vesicular introduction of legislation in all States disease. restricting the feeding of swill. At that I have no need to remind members of the time, my veterinary advisers were concerned disastrous consequences for Australian rural at the spread of swine vesicular disease and industries of an outbreak of foot and mouth the increasing world prevalence of the disease anywhere in Australia. There is no dreaded African swine fever. The serious guarantee that such an outbreak in Tasmania outbreaks of the latter in Central and South would not lead to prohibitions on meat America were closely associated with the exports from the mainland to our major feeding of swill. In fact, there was good trading partners. The economic effects could evidence that the original Brazil outbreak be far more serious than the economic slump was due to the feeding to local pigs of food in the beef industry during the 1974-78 scraps from an international aircraft. period. While the legislation prohibiting the feed­ The importance of other vesicular diseases, ing of untreated animal matter is an essential such as swine vesicular disease, vesicular step towards limiting the introduction and stomatitis and vesicular exanthema lies in spread of foot and mouth and other exotic their marked similarity to foot and mouth diseases, it is not the complete answer. disease, particularly in pigs. ,The lesions, in My critics at the time this legislation was fact, are quite indistinguishable on visual mooted thought we should allow boiling of appearance and require detailed laboratory swill. Let me remind members that the testing before a definite diagnosis can be United Kingdom, which allows the feeding made. It is, therefore, essential that steps of boiled swill, reported 20 outbreaks of swine be taken by veterinary authorities to contain vesicular disease in February 1979, involving and eradicate any of these vesicular diseases. the slaughter of 23,000 pigs. Most of the Detailed plans agreed to by all States have outbreaks were in swill-fed piggeries. I, and existed for many years to deal with such I understand my colleagues in other States, are incidents. The Commonwealth and States under renewed pressure from our livestock have uniform compensation legislation and industries to firm up our control over the have reached agreement on the sharing of feeding of swill. My officers, within recent operational and compensation costs. months, have been instructed to give higher priority to policing the existing regulations. The specimens sent from the Launceston This outbreak illustrates the need for con­ outbreak to Pirbright have undergone pre­ stant vigilance by our veterinary staffs. liminary examination. Further material held as a precautionary measure has now been I consider that the prompt action by the sent to Pirbright and final confirmation of Tasmanian authorities is to be highly the diagnosis should be available by early commended. The detection, during recent next week. One possibility is swine vesicu­ saturation searches by Customs officers of lar disease. This has been reported from large quantities of goods, including meat Italy, Hong Kong, Japan, the United King­ products prohibited under the Quarantine dom and several European countries includ­ Act among arriving passengers' luggage, is ing Greece, the latter in recent months. The an ever-present problem. Quarantine is doing latest reported outbreak in Greece was in a as efficient a job as is practicable in pre­ swill-fed piggery on 22 August 1979. It venting the entry of dangerous animal pro­ affects pigs only and has in most instances ducts, but it must be supported by all the been associated with the swill feeding of measures within Australia required to pre­ uncooked infected pork. The virus is very vent incidents such as the one m Tasmania resistant in the environment and disinfection last week. 81361-50 1446 Ministerial Statements [30 OcrOBER 1979] Petitions

DEVELOPMENT PLAN OF METROPOLITAN of some $200,000,000 to ensure that the elec­ TRANSIT AUTHORITY trification of the suburban railways will be completed and the further improvements car­ Hon. K. B. TOMKINS (Roma-Minister ried out. Foremost among the proposals of for Transport) (11.20 a.m.): I wish to advise the development plan are:- honourable members that the Government Co-ordination and integration of bus and has accepted the development plan for pub­ rail services. The first major interchange lic transport improvements during the five­ between city council buses and trains is year period 1979-84, prepared by the Metro­ being planned for Enoggera on the Ferny politan Transit Authority. I formally table Grove line. Bus/bus interchanges are also a copy of the plan. being planned initially at Chermside and Whereupon the honourable gentleman laid Toombul. the document on the table. Integrated fares systems to enable pas­ Honourable members will oe avvare that sengers to transfer between buses, trains the Government has pressed forward assidu­ and ferries. ously in this field since coming to office. The Investigation of potentially lower cost Government attaches great importance to forms of public transport for areas of low public transport, especially the needs of population density. those people dependent upon public transport Improvements to ferry-terminal facilities -the young, the old, the incapacitated, etc.­ and possible extensions of ferry services. and has pressed forward with plans for pub­ Improvements such as priority buslanes lic transport improvements. and two-way radio to assist in the opera­ This was demonstrated by the commission­ tion of bus services. ing of various studies, notably the 1970 Review of bus .route networks and South-East Queensland and Brisbane Reg­ improvements to services where justified. ional Public Transportation Study by the internationally well-known consultant firm of The plan recognises that maintenance of Wilbur Smith & Associates. The results of an efficient public transport network in Bris­ this study have been acted upon by the Gov­ bane and the surrounding areas has been ernment in the introduction of a programme given increased importance because of the of, urban public transport improvements and liquid fuel situation. The proposals of the the establishment of the Metropolitan Transit plan such as electrification of the railways Authority to co-ordinate and supervise the and rationalisation of bus services will make programme. The tangible evidence of that significant contributions in this regard. programme is already before honourable I am sure that the honourable members on members in many respects-- both sides of the House will applaud this The completed cross-river Merivale Rail­ further positive action on the part of the way Bridge, which has at last connected Government to ensure that Brisbane and the two sectors of the Brisbane railway surrounding areas will enjoy the benefits of system into a single entity, permitting use a well organised, modern, safe, efficient sys­ of stainless steel trains to southside destina­ tem of public transport. I will ensure that tions and opening the way for electric ser­ copies of the plan are made available to all vices in time for the Commonwealth members of the House to keep them abreast Games. of the Government's plans for the future. Commencement next month of the first electric service between Ferny Grove and Darra with the most modern rolling-~tock. PETITIONS Extension of electrification to Ipswich REZONING OF YEERONGPILLY LAND will be completed in 1980, and work con­ nected with electrification of the Kingston Hon. N. E. LEE (Yeronga-Minister for to Shorncliffe section is well in hand for Industry and Administrative Services) pre­ completion by 1982. sented a petition from 899 electors of Improved or new car-parks and bus Queensland, praying that the Parliament of interchanges at 37 suburban stations within Queensland will ensure that the application three years with many further improve­ for rezoning of land at the corner of Wattle ments planned. Avenue, Park Road and Gow Street, Financial support to tile Brisbane City Yeerongpilly, be not approved, in accordance Council to purchase modern buses. with Cabinet Decision No. 19434 of 8 October 1973. Members will also be aware that the Gov­ ernment is providing financial assistance to Petition read and received. both the Brisbane City Council and private operators in order to ensure the maintenance of adequate services. With these achieve­ PROPOSED ABORTION REVIEW COMMITTEE ments already apparent, the development plan Mr. BOURKE (Lockyer) presented a of the Metropolitan Transit Authority is the petition from 443 residents of Queensland, blueprint for the improvements still to be praying that the Parliament of Queensland made. will provide that full documentation for every The Government has indicated financial abortion performed cancerning the patient's support over the period 1979-84 to the extent state at the time and all the circumstances Personal Explanation [30 OcroBER 1979] Bail Bill 1447

of the case (as in clause 282 of the Queens­ reports of I.X.L.'s take-over plans for the local land Criminal Code) be included in any pro­ Murarrie-based firm. As a result of that meet­ posed legislation, that an Abortion Review ing I sent telegrams that day to Henry Jones Committee be established to examine, analyse I.X.L. Pty. Ltd., the Prime Minister (Malco·lm and assess the medical documentation of Fraser), the Minister for Employment (Mr. every case of abortion performed in this Viner), the Premier (Mr. Bjelke-Pe.tersen) and State, that the Parliament of Queensland the Deputy Premier and Liberal Leader (Dr. will demand adequate documentation to Edwards). The Prime Minister replied on establish the reasonable nature nf every 2 and 25 July; Mr. Viner on 23 July; I.X.L. abortion o-peration and that a committee on 28 June; Mr. Bjelke-Petersen wrote be set up to monito-r such documentation. through Keith Spann on 4 September 1979; Petition read and received. I replied on 7 September 1979 and he wrote again on 8 October 1979, approximately 20 [A similar petition was presented by Dr. days ago. Lockwood (439 signatories), and that pe,tition was read and received.] Dr. Edwards, who on two occasions last Thursday deliberately stated that Labor and I had done nothing about the Henry Jones CLOSURE OF CuRLEW STREET, SANDGATE I.X.L. take-over of Provincial Traders Pty. Mr. WARBURTON (Sandgate) presented Ltd., was forwarded the following telegram a petition from 63 electors of Queensland, four months ago-on 27 June- praying that LI-te Parliament of Queensland "Following your statement I advise that will take action to prevent the permanent a meeting of wmkers representatives this closure of that section of Curlew Street morning sent the following telegrams to between the Shorncliffe railway line and the Premier of Queensfand, Mr. Bjelke­ Cabbage Tree Creek. Petersen, Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. Malcolm Fraser, and Hon. I. Viner­ Petition read and received. 'Southern Takeover of Queensland Indus­ tries in the past have resulted in massive PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS unemployment with production transferred TRANSPORTED BY QUEENSLAND RAILWAYS AND to Southern Operations stop Over 1,000 ROAD TRANSPORT workers at Provincial Traders Pity. Ltd., Brisbane seek your urgent assistance to Mr. BURNS (Lytton) presented a petition stop pending takeover by Henry Jones from 537 electors of Queensland, praying I.X.L. or to obtain guarantees from I.X.L. that the Parliament of Queensland will take of job security for Queensland Workers:' the necessary steps to amend the relevant Tom Burns, M.L.A. Member folf Lytton." legislation to ensure that animals trans­ ported by Queensland Railways and by road The Deputy Premier's only reply was as transport are not forced to suffer intoler­ follows- able pain and suffering due to neglect, lack " I acknowledge receipt of your ·tele­ of water and lack of concern. gram and enclose a copy of my Press Release made yesterday which indicates Petition read and received. my position on this matter." Mr. Speaker, in the light of that letter of reply I accuse Dr. Edwards of deliberately PERSONAL EXPLANATION misleading this House and mme impolftantly Mr. BURNS (Lytton) (11.26 a.m.), by of doing nothing to protect Provincial Trad­ leave: Last Thursday, 25 October 1979, during ers Pty. Ltd. workers. question-time the Liberal Leader, Dr. Dr. EDWARDS: I rise to a point of order. Edwards, made a number of personal attacks The honourable membelf for Lytton said I on me when questioned about the I.X.L. deliberately misled the House. I have not take-over of Provincial Traders Pty. Ltd. misled the House. I said that the formelf Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Leader said­ Leader of the Opposition did not make any "I did not hear any comment by the public statement at that time, and my Labor Party at any time during the I.X.L. statement still stands. ·threat to Provincial Traders." I interjected and took a point of order to BAIL BILL draw his attention to my close involvement in the matter, but, as is his wont of late, lNITIATION he launched into a personal attack on me Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Cootha­ and then ag-ain said- Minister for Justice and Attorney-General): "I reca'll that comments of the former I move- Leader of the Opposition about Provin­ "That the House will, at its present sit­ cial Traders were made about three years ting, resolve itself into a Committee of the ago and were not made during the recent Whole to consider introducing a Bill to take-over by I.X.L. in association with the consolidate and amend the law relating to Commercial Bank." bail in or in connection with criminal pro­ Mr. Speaker, the facts are that on 27 June ceedings and for incidental and other this year, I met with workers at Provincial purposes." Traders Pty. Ltd. to discuss newspaper Motion agreed to. 1448 Questions Upon Notice [30 OCTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice

CROWN PROCEEDINGS BILL actual possession of such prescribed cer­ tificate under the Queensland Local Gov­ INITIATION ernment Act? Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha-Mini­ (3) Were the applicants informed that ster for Justice and Attorney-General): I the Queensiand Local Government Act or move- relative regulations thereunder were to be " That the House will, at its present amended and therefore, if appointed, such sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of amendments would provide for the issue to the Whole to consider introducing a Bill them of a Queensland Local Government to consolidate and amend the law relating Clerk's certificate without examination? to proceedings by or against the Crown and the recovery of certain debts due to (4) In an important matter such as this, the Crown and for related purposes." which has a critical effect on the lives and livelihood of people who are qualified Motion agreed to. professional leaders in our Queensland local government industry, why wasn't Parliament informed of such changes, QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE which surely must now be seen as having a detrimental effect on legitimate career­ 1. QUEENSLAND HALL OF SPORTING FAME oriented people in Queensland local Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked the government? Minister for Culture, National Parks and Recreation- Answers:- With reference to reports on 25 October (1) I am not aware of the names of all from Canberra of moves to establish a the applicants for the positions mentioned National Sporting Hall of Fame as part by the honourable member but am informed of the proposed National History Museum and in view of the very proud record of that some of them were the holders of sporting achievement of Queenslanders, current certificates of competency as Local both nationally and internationally, will Government Clerk in this State. The mak­ he consider recommending the establish­ ing of staff appointments in a local autho­ ment of a Queensland Hall of Sporting rity office is, of course, a matter for the Fame, possibly as part of the Cultural local authority concerned. Centre now being constructed on the south (2) I am advised that the appointment side of Brisbane? made by the Logan Shire Council was in the capacity of Acting Shire Clerk, the Answer:- appointee being the holder of a certifi­ I am aware of the proposal to establish cate of competency as Local Government a National Sporting Hall of Fame in the Clerk in New South Wales. The appoint­ national capital, and I support this concept. ment made by the Gold Coast City Council I am not in favour of a proliferation of was in the capacity of Deputy Town Clerk. sporting halls of fame in the various States At the present time, consideration is of the Commonwealth. being given to the question of recipro­ city between the States of Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria in the matter of 2. APPOINTMENTS UNDER LOCAL Local Government Clerks' certificates. I am GovERNMENT Acr informed that this is supported by the Mr. Gunn, pursuant to notice, asked the Institute of Municipal Administration, Minister for Local Government and Main which is composed principally of practising Roads- local government Clerks. With reference to the recent appoint­ I understand that the acting appoint­ ments of two interstate applicants to the ment made by the Logan Shire Council was positions of Deputy Shire Clerk of the on the basis that a full appointment would Gold Coast City Council and Shire Clerk not be made until the appointee was the of the Logan Shire- holder of a Queensland certificate. (1) Were the applicants, of whom 16 Under the Local Government Act, there of the 26 were from interstate, and/or is no requirement for a person appointed to appointees to the vacancies, the actual the office of Deputy Clerk of a local holders of certificates as Clerks, in accord­ authority to hold a certificate of com­ ance with the Queensland Local Govern­ petency as Local Government Clerk. ment Act 1936-1978? (3 & 4) To become effective, the (2) If the appointees, at the time of reciprocity of Local Government Clerks' appointment, were not the actual holders qualifications between the States of Queens­ of such a Queensland certificate, under land, New South Wales, and Victoria will whose authority, which evidently must be necessitate amendments of regulations made beyond the Local Government Act, was under the Local Government Act in each permission given for applicants to be even State. As I mentioned previously, this considered, let alone appointed, without the matter is presently receiving consideration. Questions Upon Notice [30 OCTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice 1449

3. RAILWAY HousiNG, CLoNCURRY Th'e money forms a component of pro­ Mr. Bertoni, pursuant to notice, asked the ceeds for distribution to producers in MiniSJter for Transport- respect of surplus eggs and egg products exported. Growers not involved in ex,port What plans has the Railway Department receive an equivalent benefit through this to help alleviate the overcrowded and price support mechanism. inadequate housing situation for railway employees at Cloncurry? Answer:- 5. BURLEIGH HEADS POUCE STATION AND RESERVE Dur>ing the past three financial years, a total of 22 additional houses has been Mr. Vaughan, pursuant to notice, asked ;provided at Cloncurry, iocreasing to 53 the the Minister for Mines, Enel'gy and POOice- total number of houses ava;Hable. Accom­ With reference to my question on 17 modation is otherwise available for 19 October regarding the police reserve at employees. During tJhe current financial Burleigh Heads- year, it is proposed to provide a further three houses and acquire land for five (!) What is the name of the person, residences. persons or company that has submitted a proposal that portion of the police reserve at Burleigh Heads be released for the 4. HEN LEVY purpose of constructing a multi-level car­ Mr. Bertoni, pursuant to notice, asked the park? Minister for Primary Industries- (2) Is it normal Government practice (!) Since July, what has been the delay to consider such proposals whereby Crown in refunding the Commonwealth hen levy property, such as the police reserve at to Mt. Isa egg producers? Burleigh Heads, is bartered or, in this case, (2) How can the Egg Marketing Board exchanged for the construction of a new account for the difference between the police station? $17,623,902 for the sale of eggs and pulp and equalisation charges in 1978-79 and Answers:- the $18,099,462 paid to the Egg Marketing (!) The proposal originated in 1976 with Board members for their eggs, pulp and a request from the Town Clerk, Gold other purchases? Coast City Council, to the former Com­ (3) To what use was the amount of missioner of Police. Sioce that time, dis­ $1,433,240 forwarded to the Egg Marketing cussions have been held with representa­ Board as Commonwealth Poultry Industry tives of the Gold Coast City Council and Trust Fund subsidy on export losses put, the Bu11leigh Heads Chamber of Com­ and how were these moneys distributed? merce, but a fuHy detailed proposal has yet to be submitted. As previously indicated, Answers:- the proposal is only tentative at this stage. ( I) The payment referred to does not rep­ {2) It is the policy of the Government resent a refund of Commonwealth hen to consider any legitimate proposail that levy. I am informed that the payment in could be of benefit to tJhe citizens of this fact arises from a private arrangement State. between the QueensJand Egg Board's Co­ ordinating Committee and the Mt. Isa pro­ ducers and is in the nature of a financial 6. PRICEWAYS PTY. Lm. assistance to these producers. The timing of such payments is a matter for arrange­ Mr. Vaughan, pursuant to notice, asked ment between the parties involved. the Minister for Mines, Energy and Police- (2) I wotllld refer the honourable mem­ (1) Following representations from the ber to page 60 of the Auditor-Deneral's member for Mt. Isa, did he approach Report upon Departmental Accounts and Mount Isa Mines Ltd. in relation to an other Aocounts for the year ended 30 arrangement between Mount Isa Mines Ltd. June 1979, where the audited accounts of and a company called Priceways Pty. Ltd. rthe Egg Marketing Board are set out in which retails petrol to Mt. Isa motorists some detail. Trhe partial data supplied by substantially cheaper than other petrol the honourable member refers only to cer­ retailers in Mt. I sa? tain aspects of income and expenditure, (2) Is it true that as a result of his thence a comparison in aocounting terms approach to Mount Isa Mines Ltd. Price­ thas no relevance. A fuJ.ler appreciation ways Pty. Ltd., which has been situated on may be gained from studying the Auditor­ the Mount Isa Mines mining lease for General's report. approximately eight years, have now been (3) As has always been the practice, the forced to move their retail petrol business money referred to was used to meet the off the Mount Isa Mines lease? Josses on production diverted to the export (3) Is it his normal practice to inter­ market. The method of distribution enables fere with free enterprise business in this egg producers throughout the State to way, using his position as Minister for receive equitable returns from their pro­ Mines, Energy and Police, in this instance duce. to put pressure on Mount Isa Mines Ltd.? 1450 Questions Upon Notice [30 OCTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice

Answers:- into Australia and selling them at extremely low prices, to the detriment of the Aus­ (1) No. tralian market? (2) Not applicabie. (10) What control, if any, does the Government have over the sales and export (3) No. The honourable member should of gemstones mined on the Central Queens­ be aware of the record of my Government land gemfields? in the encouragement of free enterprise over the last 22 years, particularly in the (11) Under what conditions are Thai mining industry, which has put the State buyers allowed to enter and leave Queens­ in its present sound financial position. land? (12) As he stated that when I travel to other parts of Queensland I create 7. CENTRAL QUEENSLAND GEMF!ELDS industrial unrest, what other parts of Mr. Vaughan, pursuant to notice, asked Queensland was he referring to, and what the Minister for Mines, Energy and Police- industrial unrest was he referring to? With reference to his answer to a ques­ Answers:- tion asked by the member for Peak Downs on 17 October- (1) Yes. (1) Will he confirm that under the (2) No. Areas of land have been set new provisions of the Mining Act tourists apart as camping reserves in the towns and visitors to the Central Queensland of Sapphire and Willows. gemfields who hold only a miner's right (3) No. The recent amendments to the cannot set up a residence or camp on Mining Act were designed to apply State­ Crown land anywhere on the gemfields wide and not to be confined to sectional unless they first apply for and obtain a interests in particular areas. mining claim? (4) Yes. The decision not to set aside (2) Do all tourists and visitors to the such areas was influenced to some degree gemfields who hold only a miner's right by strong opposition by various associations have to live in the caravan parks, hotel/ on the Central Queensland gemfields and motel or other such accommodation? lapidary clubs throughout Australia to such a proposal. (3) When the recent amendments to the Mining Act were being considered, (5) $20,000,000. did he or any member of the Mines Depart­ (6) Actual production figures are not ment discuss proposed amendments with recorded. representatives of the Small Miner's Association on the gemfields? (7) For the 1978-79 financial year, royalty paid was $23,230. Mining lease (4) Has he been approached to set rents paid for the year ended 31 December aside designated areas where tourists and 1978 totalled approximately $6,000. visitors to the gemfields could hand-mine and fossick without trespassing on the (8) A machine miner may hold only two mining claims or leases of permanent leases of 2 ha each at any one time for residents in the area and, if so, why is actual mining, and any over-production is he not prepared to set aside such desig­ a matter for the miners themselves in nated are::tS? terms of current demands for gemstones. I am not aware of prices paid by Thai (5) What was the Mines Department buyers, nor of stocks held by them. estimate of the value of gems produced from the Central Queensland gemfields in (9) The quality of sapphires bought and 1978? sold, and the prices paid for them, reflect the market situation. Control of imports (6) What was the actual recorded value is a matter for the Commonwealth Gov­ of gems produced from the Central Queens­ ernment. land gemfields in 1978? (10) The Queensland Government has (7) What income did the Government no control over the sales of sapphires to receive in 1978-79 by way of royalty, etc., buyers. Control of exports is similarly a from gem-mining in Central Queensland? matter for the Commonwealth Government. (8) Because of machine-mining, is there (11) Movements of foreign nationals to over-production on the gemfields and have and from Australia are again matters for Thai buyers been buying at reduced prices the Commonwealth Government. and stockpiling rough sapphires to the extent that they are reputed to have about (12) Let me remind the honourable seven years' supply? member that the purpose of question-time is to seek information that he cannot pro­ (9) Have Thai buyers a virtual mono­ vide himself. Accordingly, the honourable poly on the industry and are they weaken­ member should be able to tell this House ing the gem-mining industry by bringing himself about the industrial unrest he large quantities of low-grade cut sapphires causes. Questions Upon Notice (30 OCTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice 1451

8. RENTS ON LEASEHOLD LAND Answer:- Mr. Glasson, pursuant to notice, asked the ! thank the honourabile member for Minister for Lands, For,estry and Water this question and ask her to accept that Resources- it was answered in detail in the ministerial Following the sudden but belated upturn statement that I made earlier today. in the pastora:l industry, will he give an assurance that there will not be an immed­ 11. RAIL TRANSPORT OF HORSES iate move by his department to increase the rents on leasehold land until the long Mrs. Kippin, pursuant to notice, asked the term stability of both the wool and beef Minister for Transport- indust,ries is assured? (1) Does the Railway Department require the booking of rail wagons for Answer:- the transport of horses to be made in The position of the pastoral industry, writing? particularly the caHie industry, has been (2) If so, will he direct the Railway kept under close review since the improve­ Department to accept advice by telegram, ment in the market, but the honourable as many country stock owners find it member may be assured that no move impossible to deliver or post a letter to will be made to have the increase reflected any station-master during the wet season? in rents and values of leasehold land without further e:x:haustive examination. Answers:- I wi!J continue to keep a watch on the (!) Yes. situation. (2) An order received by telegram or telephone is accepted, but such an order 9. DOCUMENTATION OF BIRTH must be confirmed in writing. ABNORMALITIES Mrs. Kippin, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Health- 12. FITTING OF MAG WHEELS TO MOTOR VEIDCLES (1) What are the requirements for doc­ umentatjon of birth abnormaillties in Mr. Hansen, pursuant to notice, asked Queensland? the Minister for Labour Relat,ions- (1) Do some insurance companies reject (2) If a child is born with birth abnormalities but lives for 28 days, are damage olaims because certain types of details of the abnormalities documented? wheels have been fitted to vehicles involved in accidents? (3) Will he request his departmental officers to design a more effective system of (2) Are certain wheels of the mag type considered dangerous or illegal and, if so, notification and surveillance of birth why are these wheels advertised and readi,Jy defects, in order to facilitate the identifica­ tion of causes of such defects if at all available f,rom retailers? possible? (3) If they are neither illegal nor .dangt:r­ ous, why are insurance compames dJs­ Answers:- criminating against persons who have fitted ( I) Birth abnormality is not a notifiable these wheels to their vehicles? condition in Queensland. Answer:- (2) There is no requirement for birth abnormalities to be documented, but a (! to 3) The main thrust of the honour­ death certificate has to be completed. able member's question relates to insurance companies and consequently I suggest that (3) I am advised that my colleague the he put this question upon notice to my Commonwealth Minister for Health has colleague the Honourable the Deputy recently announced the establishment of a Premier and Treasurer. At the same time, National Perinatal Statistics Unit at the I wi11 supply to my coHeague such infor­ University of Sydney. My department mation as is available within my depart­ wi11 be co-operating with that unit and ment to permit a comprehensive answer 'wiH receive information once the unit has to be made to the honourable member. become established. Mr. Hansen: I do so according,Jy.

10. DISEASE IN SWINE HERDS, NORTHERN TASMANIA 13. LEASE CONDITIONS, CARAVAN PARK, Mrs. Kippin, pursuant to notice, asked the BRIBIE ISLAND Minister for Primary Industries- Mr. Hansen, pursuant to notice, asked the Has the precise nature of the disease Minister for Lands, Forestry and Water in swine herds that caused consider­ Resources- able concern in Northern Tasmania during (!) With reference to the successful the week commencing 21 October been tender by G. C. and M. D. Hannant for determined and, if so, what is the disease a ten-hectare camping and caravan park and from where has it been introduced or north of Happy VaUey, Fraser Island, when ori~inated? was the title issued for the lease? 1452 Questions Upon Notice [30 OctOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice

(2) Do special conditions apply to the "6. An application for conversion of lease? tenure in terms of section '207 of the (3) Do these conditions include any Land Act will not be approved." requirement to complete the development within a specified period and, if so, when 14. REGISTRATION OF VESSELS AND ISSUE is the deadline? OF FISHING LICENCES, MARYBOROUGH DISTRict Answers:- Mr. Hansen, pursuant to notice, asked the (1) No instrument of lease has yet Minister for Maritime Services and issued in favour of G. C. and N. D. Tourism- Hannant. (1) How many vessels have been reg­ (2 & 3) An offer of a special lease to istered in the Maryborough district as Mr. and Mrs. Hannant was made by my (a) commercial fishing craft, (b) pleasure Land Administration Commission on 13 craft and (c) hire craft during each of September 1979, and the special conditions the past three years? which will apply to the proposed special (2) How many fishing licences have been lease are as follows:- issued in the Ma.ryborough district over " 1. The lessee shall, within two years each of the past three years? from the commencement of the term (3) What was the total revenue of .the lease and to the satisfaction of collected in each instance from these the Minister, effect improvements on sources in each of the past three years? the leased land in the nature of tourist (cabin and camping) accommodation and Answer:- ancillary facilities of a value of not less (! to 3) Commercial fishing vessel than $250,000. licences are not recorded on a district "The concept of the camping ground basis. The number of pleasure craft and and access thereto shall be generally hire craft registered in the Maryborough in accordance with the lessees' lease district for the last three financial years application registered in the Department and the revenue derived therefrom are as of Lands on 13 November 1978. follows:- "2. All development on the leased land Pleasure Cmft shall be in accordance with the interim 1976-77 3,297-Revenue $47,084 development by-law, all other by-laws 1977-78 3,573-Revenue $51,452 and general requirements of the Hervey 1978-79 3,753-Revenue $62,676 Bay Town Council. All plans of the proposed development shall be required Hire Craft to be lodged for the approval of the 1976-77 69-Revenue $2,413 said council. 1977-78 66-Revenue $2,202 "3. The lessee must comply with any 1978-79 52-Revenue $1,321 requirements of the Conservator of Forests in relation to the protection of the adjoining State forest. 15 & 16. RADIO AND TELEVISION "4. (i) The lessee must obtain the COVERAGE OF SHEFFIELD approval and comply with any require­ SHIELD MATCHES ments of the Beach Protection Auth­ Mr. Lester, pursuant to notice, asked the ority for any works proposed to be Minister for Culture, National Parks and effected within the adjoining beach Reoreation- erosion control district. (1) Is he aware that the Australian (ii) Vehicular and pedestrian access Broadcasting Commission will broadcast tracks or roads to the beach must com­ only highlights of the first two Sheffield ply with the requirements of the Beach Shield cricket matches to be played in Protection Authority. Brisbane this season? (iii) The lessee must ensure that the (2) Will he ascertain if this restriction development of the leased land does not applies only to the city? result in:- (3) Will country people get full cover­ (a) Increasing rates of surface flow age of these games? of water across the dunal area in the beach erosion control district and Answer:- causing rilling or gullying; ( I w 3) I am informed that for the two (b) Increasing the ground water Sheffield Shield matches in question the levels in the dunal system in the Australian Broadcasting Commission did, erosion control district and thereby and will, provide periods of live cricket inducing increased rates of shoreline descriptions for both city and country recession adjacent to the proposed listeners. Here, I might say, I am sure lease. they all wauld have enjoyed the coverage "5. No dedicated access to the leased of Queensland's great win in the match land will be provided by the Crown. against Victo•ria concluded yesterday. Questions Upon Notice [30 OcTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice 1453

Mr. Lester, pursuant to notice, asked the reconsider its stand and provide some live Minister for Culture, National Parks and coverage when Queensland takes the field Recreation- for its important clash with Western Aus­ Cl) Is he aware that some areas of tralia commencing on Friday. Queensland are serviced only by A.B.C. television? 17. STREET SAFETY FOR ScHOOLCFULDREN (2) Will he take action to ensure that Mr. Ahem for Mr. Lester, pursuant to these areas receive full cricket coverage, notice, asked the Minister for Transport- as the commercia·! Packer organisation has (1) Is he aware that in the United States obtained the cricket broadcast rights thjs of America flashing amber lights, plus year at the eXJpense of the A. B. C.? traffic signs ordering traffic to slow down to 15 miles per hour, are activated by Answers:­ school authorities at peak school traffic (!) Yes. periods to assist children crossing busy (2) State Governments have no constitu­ streets adjacent to schools? tional involvement with the Australian (2) Is he aware that groups of children Broadcasting Commission and its policies, are so organised that they can cross these the Commission being a Commonwealth streets, aided by each group's carrying a statutory authority. However, appreciating large colourful stop sign? as I do the honourable member's concern (3) As many country areas, in particular, that country residents interested in cricket should not be disadvantaged by have little help for children in such dif­ geography, I have inquired into the matter ficulties, notably at several large schools and am informed the circumstances are which have not even zebra crossings as follows:- in front of them, can this whole question of school street safety for children going The Australian Broadcasting Commission to and leaving school be the subject of does not have the rights to telecast cricket an inquiry, with specific recommendations this season, these having been sold by the to be acted upon by the Transport Depart­ Australian Cricket Board of Control to a ment, as this department's contribution .to commercial television network. I under­ the International Year of the Chlld stand that the commission has appealed activities? to the Trade Practices Tribunal against ·that decision. The whole question is Answers:­ purely one of a business arrangement (!) Yes. between the Australian Cricket Board of Control and the television network. How­ (2) Yes. ·ever, I can also inlform the honourable (3) The establishment of pedestrian cros­ member that I have received a numbe•r sings at schools, particularly those that are of approaches from cricket followers com­ patrolled by school patrols during the plaining about the lack of live television hours that children use the crossings on cover of the Queensland-Victoria Sheffield their way to and from school, involves a Shield match which ended yesterday. number of departments and local authori­ In the eyes of many cricket followers, ties. The practice of using school patwls the failure to provide such coverage at crossings is one of long standing in appears to be outside the spi.rit of the Queensland and is provided for in the agreement on exclusive television rights Traffic Regulations, 1962. Because of the negotiated by the Channel 9 network. In problems with the current policy relating this case it does seem the granting of to school crossings in Queensland a com­ exclusive television rights has, in fact, mittee was established in March 1978 com­ denied thousands of Queensland sports prising representation from the Depart­ followers the opportunity of seeing live ments of Main Roads, Police and Educa­ coverage of sessions oil' play in the first tion, as well as the Brisbane City Council, Sheffield match of the season. Local Government Association and Queens­ With the honourable member, I share land Road Safety Council. The committee the concern of cricket-lovers throughout has now completed a comprehensive review Queensland who are worried that the new of the existing situation and identified agreement will, in practice, reduce the changes that are desirable. Practical imple­ level of live Sheffield Shield coverage mentation of the committee's recommenda­ they previously enjoyed. I feel that in any tions is being examined. future agreement on exclusive television coverage of matches under its control, the Australian Cricket Board of Control 18. RESTRICTION ON SALE OF SUGAR-CANE should ensure that such agreement pro­ TO DROUGHT-STRICKEN AREAS vides for live coverage of at least a por­ Mr. Blake, pursuant to notice, asked the tion of all Sheffield Shield matches, not Minister for Primary Industries- just those selected by the successful As there appears to be some confusion television network. arising from his answer to a question during In view of widespread reaction from the week commencing 21 October regard­ the sporting public, I hope that the ing prohibition of the movement of sugar­ Channel 9 network in Queensland might cane to certain drought areas for fodder 1454 Questions Upon Notice [30 OCTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice

purposes, will he release a statement for 19. DESCRIPTION AND SALE OF PRE·PACKED the benefit of the public explaining cane MEAT quarantine districts and the relevant dis­ Mr. Blake, pursuant to notice, asked the trict sources of official advice on this Minister for Labour Relations- matter, as the situation could vary between various sugar-cane quarantine and drought With reference to Press reports that areas? earlier this year a leading retail store chain was fined $1,100 in the Sydney Central Answer:- Summons Court on charges of selling pre­ packed chuck steak falsely described as The State is divided into 10 sugar-cane rib grilling steak and selling pre-packed quarantine districts, and these are listed meat without indicating the full descrip­ on page 48 in the schedule to the Sugar tion of the contents- Experiment Stations Act. The boundaries of the districts run east-west through cer­ (1) What consumer protection regula­ tain cities or features. The boundaries of tions apply to the description and sale the Bundaberg/Childers district, for of pre-packed meat in Queensland? example, run east-west through Rockharnp­ (2) What frequency of departmental ton in the north, and through Howard in inspection is maintained for public pro­ the south. tection? It is an offence under section 23 of the (3) How many prosecutions, if any, have Sugar Experiment Stations Act to move resulted from departmental inspections, or attempt to move any sugar-cane across and what is the predominant feature of the boundary of a quarantine district. This breachings of consumer protection? applies to all sugar-cane, whether it is diseased or not. Permits to shift cane in Answer:- quantity across a quarantine district boun­ (! to 3) The honourable member's ques­ dary have rarely been issued. tion falls within the administrative respon­ Proclamation No. 47, issued under the sibilities of the Honourable the Minister Sugar Experiment Stations Act in 19<59, for Primary Industries and the Honourable deals with specific disease problems in the the Minister for Health, and I suggest Bundaberg/Childers quarantine district. t,hat he should redirect it. The movement of sugar-cane from a farm is prohibited, except for the purpose of Mr. BLAKE: I understood that I did direct milling, if Fiji disease or certain other the question on notice to the Minister for diseases are present on that farm. Where Primary Industries. I tJhink that there has these diseases are not present, cane may been some clerical error in directing it to be moved from the farm anywhere within the Minister for Labour Relations. How­ the quarantine district. ever, I shalJ do as the Minister requests, and redirect it. All sugar-cane farms in the Bundaberg area and most farms in the Childers area have some Fiji-diseased cane growing on them, and so are subject to this quarantine. 20. RELEASE OF FRESHWATER FISH IN WATER STORAGES These quarantines are administered by the Bureau of Sugar Experiment Stations. Mr. Blake, pursuant to notice, asked the Because of the severe Fiji disease outbreak Minis'ter for Maritime Services and in South Queensland, particularly in the Tourism- Bundaberg/Childers district, there has been (!) What progress has been made by a long-standing policy against movement Commonwealth and State research auth­ of cane north from Bundaberg cane farms. orities into desirable freshwater fish Fiji disease is spread by an insect, which species suitable for release in tropical and is present in the Mackay area, although subtropical water storages? the virus causing the disease is not. The (2) Has a decision been made to stock long distance between Bundaberg and the Fred Haigh Darn and, if so, what Mackay district cane farms has been the species of freshwater fish will be used major factor in keeping Fiji disease out of and when will the dam be stocked? that area. Permits which are required for any Answers:- movements of sugar-cane will be consid­ (!) The froohwater ~pecies of ye:How­ ered for movements from diseased farms be1ly and silver perch are highly regarded in the Bundaberg/Childers district, to for this purpose and stocks can generally drought areas to the west and south. be obtained from either Queensland or Some cane has already been shifted. Cane New South Wa,les souPCes. Research into from Mackay or Plane Creek areas can be the problems of breeding other species used as far SO'Uth as Rockharnpton. Official has been carried out by the Queensland advice should be sought through the reg­ Fisheries Service, and work is being initia­ ional extension officers at the Bundaberg ted by the Department of Harbours and Sugar Experiment Station for the southern Marine on the establishment of hatchery district, and at the Mackay Sugar Experi­ and nursery faci,lities at Bommba Darn and ment Station for the central district. at the Noosaville field ~tat~on. Questions Upon Notice [30 OCTOBER 1979] Questions Upon Notice 1455

(2) No decision has yet been made building fire, can that statement be sub­ regarding the stocking of the Fred Haigh stantiated and, if so, what will be done Dam. to remedy the problem?

Answer:- 21. ERADICATION OF GROUNDSEL Consideration is being given to alloca­ Mr. Stephan, pursuant to notice, asked tion of some extra staff to the brigade, the Minister for Lands, Forestry and Water particularly as an additional station is to Resources- be opened. There are presently four stations As the control measures currently used between Southport and Bilinga, apart from for the eradication of groundsel bush in three in the adjacent shire areas. The Queensland are expensive and slow, when brigade works on four shifts and, if neces­ is work on the biological control pro­ sary, personnel from the three off-duty gramme likely to be increased? shifts could be called in. In the past, mutual assistance has been Answer:- given by metropolitan brigade to stations The tempo of investigations into bio­ in the northern part of the South Coast logical control of groundseil bush was, Fire Brigade District and no doubt would in fact, increased some 12 months ago be given in the future. If a fire occurred following the appointment of an entom­ in a high-rise building (despite built-in fire ologist in Brazil to undertake an approved precautions) during the progress of another three-year project of investigations in that serious fire, the brigade would undoubtedly country. Quarantine authorities have attend to the incident of greatest priority recently approved the inportation of three involving safety of life and seek any assist­ species of insects selected for further ance required from other brigades. testing. On receipt of these, the Alan Fletcher Research Station wiH have 10 different 23. SociAL WORKER, GLADSTONE insects for testing on groundsel bush control and expects to have stil~ more Mr. Prest, pursuant to notice, asked the as the Braz~lian project cont~nues. Bearing Minister for Welfare-- in mind that investigations into biological As the Gladstone Citizens AdvisOTy Ser­ control of a number of weeds are being vice, employing a full-time social worker, undertaken at the Alan Fletoher Research originally set up and funded by the Whit­ Station, t11e level of act,ivity in respect of lam Labor Government in 1974-75, was groundsel bush is at the maximum for subsequently disbanded by the Fraser Gov­ the resources of the station, even though ernment and has been funded during the temporary staff are currently engaged for last 18 months by the Gladstone City insect testing. Council, and as the present Gladstone City I repeat a previously expressed opinion Council Budget has not allocated suf­ that there is cause for optimism that ficient funds to allow continuation of this continuing biological control investigatcrons service beyond December, and in view of wiH result in introduction of an organism present and expected welfare problems which will satisfactorilly control groundsel associated with large industrial and con­ bush. It must be emphasised, however, struction development, will the Govern­ that biological control investigations are ment give serious consideration to making necess'a:ni,ly Jong.;term operaVions. The funds available to provide the services Stock Routes and Rural Lands Protection of one full-time social worker to assist Board, whioh arranges with the research those organisations presently providing station for the implementation of bio­ welfare services in this city? logical control investigations into noxious plants and secures funds for the purpose, is in compilete agreement with the station's Answer:- policy, that probability of success rests The Department of Children's Services with the quality of research, rather than operates a scheme which subsidises the sal­ in the number of investcrgat,ions being ary of social workers employed by volun­ undertaken. tary welfare agencies to the extent of up to $9,420 per annum under certain guide­ lines approved by Cabinet. In the 1978-79 22. FIRE SERVICES, GOLD COAST AREA financial year, subsidies were paid in respect Mr. Bishop, pursuant to notice, asked the of 11 social workers to various organisa­ Minister for Mines, Energy and Police- tions throughout the State. The allocation of funds for 1979-80 will allow a further As the secretary of the South Coast limited number of subsidies to be granted. Branch of the Firefighters' Union, Mr. The demand from organisations seeking Ian Brown, has been quoted in the "Gold subsidy far exceeds the financial c~pacity Coast Bulletin" of 24 October as stating of the scheme, and my department 1s now that the coast fire services do not have examining the submissions, some of which enough men to fight a twin disaster of a were made in detail by organisations up large bushfire and an extensive high-rise to 12 months ago. 1456 Supply (30 0croBER 1979] (Estimates)

As this is the first indication that I have SUPPLY received that the Gladstone Advisory Ser­ RESUMPTION OF CoMMITTEE-EsTIMATES­ vice has such a need, I would suggest that FIFTH AND SIXTH ALLOTTED DAYS it should send a detailed submission to me for consideration in the light of funds (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. W. D. which may be available in future financial Hewitt, Greenslopes, in the chair) years. EsTIMATES-IN-CHIEF, 1979-80 INDUSTRY AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES ADDffiONAL CoNCESSIONS FOR 24. CHIEF OFFICE, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCIAL PENSIONERS AND INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT Mr. Prest, pursuant to notice, asked the Deputy Premier and Treasurer- Hon. N. E. LEE (Yeronga-Minister for 'Industry and Administrative Services) (12.1 As the high rate of inflation and the p.m.): I move- Federal Government's lack of concern for "That $5,110,869 be granted for pensioners is placing many pensioners in 'Delpartment of Commercial and Industrial a perilous financial position, has the Gov­ 'Development-Chief Office.' " ernment given any consideration to reduc­ tion of electricity charges, financial grants I have great pleasure in presenting t~e to local authorities to assist in pensioner Estimates for the Department of Commercial rate reductions, provision of further trans­ and Industrial Development and inviting port assistance to the aged, invalid and constructive critici&m of them. widowed pensioners, and other concessions that will help our pioneers to live out their In saying that, I have every confidence last years free of financial worry? that the Committee will decide to endorse the policies the depal.'tment has carri~ out, which have seen Queensland sustam the Answer:- industrial and commercial growth it has experienced since the present Government The provision oJf funds for welfare pur­ came tD office more than two decades ago. poses including benefits and concessions to I am also confident it will record its a,pprecia­ pensioners is primarily a matter for tion of the hard work and dedication of the the Federal Government. Bearing in mind department's officers under the direction of that the Federal Government has this year one of the State's ablest public servants, Mr. provided for social security and welfare John Bensted. payments of nearly $9,000 million, equiva­ lent to 28 per cent of its total outlays, At a time olf world-wide economic tension that it has been successful in reducing I am proud to report that no other Aus­ the inflation rate very substantially in tralian State is in a happier position than recent years and has undertaken to auto­ Queensland, nor set for a more prosperous matically index pensions on a twice yearly future. Nothing could better illustrate this basis, the statement on which the honour­ than for me to &tate the bare fact that the able member's question is based must be vaiue of new projects stal"ted here during regarded as suspect to say the least. the last financial year was $1,000 million. Capital investment continued to grow at a The State Government has a policy of respectable rate in most sectors of the annually reviewing all direct b-enefits and economy-particulars the mining sector-and concessions including those that it provides is expected to continue as more resource­ to pensioners, but let me point out that processing projects get under way. the provision of the concessions of the type to which he refers a,re matters for Almost every month sees a major new consideration for the authorities involved. development getting under way in our State. The State Government in hs turn assists Our abundance of natural resources--par­ in the financing of these authorities where ticularly coal-continues to attract increas­ necessary. The availability of an above ing attention from overseas companies and average level of State assistance to local investors, and assures the future for authorities for example gives these energy-intensive technologies here. authorities a greater capacity to provide concessions such as rate rebates, transport I am particularly pleased to draw the assistance and so on if such is in accord­ attention of the Chamber to the increased ance with their policies. demand for our overseas exports that we experienced during the year. This generated Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Questions remain­ a faster mte of growth than was experienced ing unanswered will appear on tomor·row's anywhere else in Australia. Notices of Questions. It can be expected this growth will con­ At 12 noon, tinue, as shown by the Coma1co decision to establish an aluminium smelter at Glad­ In accordance with the proviSions of stone. I have no doubt this will induce Standing Order No. 307, the House went other companies to follow Comalco's lead into Committee of Supply. and start major resource-based industries Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates) 1457 whose output is directed towards the inter­ I have already referred to the satisfactory national market. In fact, a number of nego­ rate of capital investment. Many industr.ies tiations are now under way which could in fact have expended investment funds well result in further major projects being at a higher level than for many years. This established here. was to meet the need to upgrade facilities It was inevitable that Queensland's as well as pressures to restructure to meet economy should be affected by national overseas competition. In general, the manu­ policies on economic controls. But I wish to facturing sector has spent millions of dollars stress that we traded to a much greater on new equipment to modernise, and Queens­ extent on overseas markets than any other land has enjoyed the benefits that this extra Australian State. Our export-oriented indus­ capital investment has brought to our tries sold goods worth $3.2 billion overseas economy. But I must warn again that during the year. That represented 20 per unrestrained industrial action aimed at bring­ cent of the Australian total, although we ing industry to a standstill will cause a have only 15 per cent of the Australian backlash in the form of curbs on investment population. and a resultant loss of jobs. I have continually urged our manufacturers Industrial Estates to build up their export markets and seek All States compete for industry. Manu­ new ones, and was pleased to include a senior facturers tend to shop around, and the scores officer of my department in the mission sent we have attracted here have come here to the Middle East earlier this year by the only after a full appraisal of what we have Queensland Confederation of Industry. It to offer, including the favourable terms on was highly successful and established con­ our industrial estates. We offer various tacts and lines of communication which, financial inducements. For instance, in the I hope, will lead to more export markets case of land on the estates it is usual for being opened up in due course for our a special lease of 30 years to be granted in products. An officer of the department will the first place, with the annual rent assessed also accompany the confederation's proposed on the basis of 3 per cent of the unimproved trade mission to Asia next February. capital valuation. The lease may be con­ verted to freehold with interest-free payments Success in the export field, such as we spread over 20 years. The estates have have had, brings many benefits, not the created many new job opportunities, and I least important of which is the effect it has feel we should debate these Estimates with had on local employment. I think it is that fact in mind. We have had an increased noteworthy that while an increasing number demand for land on our estates outside of Queenslanders sought employment, owing Brisbane, and these make up 75 per cent mainly to our population growth, the level of all the applications we receive for sites. of employment increased here at a grea1er rate than in the rest of Australia. Our It is Government policy, and no accident, labour force increased by 2.8 per cent com­ that Queensland is clearly the most decentral­ pared with 1 per cent for Australia as a ised of all Australian States and that five whole; but, thanks to our Government's of the nation's top seven growth centres are progressive policies, our total employment in Queensland. To meet the ever-increasing grew by 3.5 per cent against 1.1 per cent demands of industry, our network of Crown for the rest of Australia. In the closing industrial estates has been expanded. There month of the financial year the level of are now 42 developed estates, comprising an unemployment in Queensland had fallen overall area of 3 936 hectares, with total below that of the previous year. expenditure incurred so far on acquisition and development of just over $26,000,000. The Queensland also did better than Australia department holds land in 21 additional pro­ as a whole in the manufacturing sector. It vincial centres for industry's future needs, performed slightly better in real terms in and, in fact, I will be opening our 43rd Queensland during the year than it did estate at Stanthorpe next month. nationally. I am pleased to say there was During the year, various changes in the one field where we lagged behind the rest allocation of sites on the estates were made. of Australia. Although we followed the The minimum-sized site was reduced from national trend in price rises-and are likely 4 000 sq m to 2 000 sq m in decentralised to for some time--our rate of growth in this areas to help small manufacturers, and we area was slightly lower. also admitted certain service industries. Unhappily, as I mentioned in the Chamber The upswing of industrial activity in our last week, we had more industrial disputes economy brought with it a greater number than in the previous year. In the 10 months of inquiries for financial assistance from firms. -to 30 April this year 248,000 working days We approved $22,600,000 in Government were lost in Queensland against 166,600 in guarantees for loans ranging from a few the same period for 1977-78. Many disputes thousand dollars to one of $18,000,000. occurred in key sectors of our industry, and We also brought our total of factory build­ this must cause all of us deep concern, ings erected by the department under the Pion­ particularly those workers who had to be eer Industry Scheme since 1970 to 54, repre­ stood down, even though they were not senting an investment of more than $9,300,000. directly involved. Annual rental on these buildings is 10 per 1458 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

cent of their cost in the metropolitan area vehicle purchases. Our used vehicles, because and T! :per cent outside Brisbane. This of the way they are maintained by the scheme has been very successful in attracting garage, continue to be in demand when here manufacturers who might otherwise offered for resale, and 1,054 of these were have gone elsewhere. sold by public auction. State Stores Government Printing Office The State Stores placed orders worth The Government Printing Office continues $63,000,000 during the year, plus an annual to meet the printing requirements of State value of period contracts entered into that Parliament and the stationery needs of all is estimated to be at least $75,000,000. The Government departments. The Government number of orders placed on behalf of Gov­ Printer, Mr. Sid Hampson, and his staff do ernment departments during 1978-79 rose an excellent job, sometimes under very diffi­ by 6 per cent. cult conditions. As honourable members I was the first Minister to visit the State know, Parliament may sit until late at night, Stores in many years, and I intend to take yet the printing office has "Hansard", con­ an even greater interest in it so the staff taining a report of the proceedings, avail­ will know that I appreciate their work as well able the next morning. I am pleased to take as want to ensure that their working con­ this opportunity of publicly commending the ditions are equal to those of other public service given to this Parliament in particular servants. and the Government generally. Mr. Ramp­ son accompanied Mr. Bensted and me over­ State Stores performs a valuable service seas earlier this year to study new advances in bringing together the purchasing of items in printing technology. in common demand by most departments. It ensures that these items are acquired on Mr. R. J. Gibbs: What did you learn? the most favourable basis available, and, in Nothing. doing so, has regard to the need to encourage the maximum possible degree of manufacture Mr. LEE: A lot. in this State. Orders have been placed in the last few State Migration months for the first lot of equipment required Although the national employment situa­ to allow the printing office to upgrade its tion has led to a low intake of migrants, technical effectiveness. This is computerised the State Migration staff remains keen under typesetting equipment, which will be used the dedicated managership of Mr. Arthur in the first instance to introduce employees Marshman. to this method of typesetting and afford them the opportunity of becoming skilled in its During the year, 1,625 United Kingdom use. migrants arrived, compared with 2,361 the previous year. I hope that this situation will In due course, the Government Printing be short-lived because, as the Federal Immi­ Office will be relocated in other premises, gration Minister noted last week, immigration which will lead to greatly improved working is important to Australia's development and conditions and operating efficiencies for this economic well-being. We have a shortage of most important segment of my department's skilled workers in certain categories, and the operations. State Migration Office nominated skilled per­ Small Business sonnel in the U.K. to meet specific vacancies that could not be filled locally, as well as The counselling, referral and information recruited professional staff for State Govern­ services which we have developed since 1977 ment departments, universities ,and colleges were consolidated during the year. The sec­ of advanced education. tion recorded more than 1,250 inquiries covering a wide range of business activity. The State Government took over complete This was a 40 per cent increase on the prev­ funding of the Queensland Good Neighbour ious year and reflects growing public aware­ Council during the year to save it from ness of the service we offer, problems caused closure by the Commonwealth Government by changes in the economy and in consum­ and under the Director, Mr. Eric Barkworth: ers' shopping habits, and a growing realisa­ the staff has continued to help migrants tion by small business people that they should with their personal and other problems. seek expert advice before possibly getting into Government Garage difficulties. During the year, the Government Garage More than 30 per cent of inquiries purchased 1,332 new vehicles, which was a received were from non-metropolitan areas, slight reduction on the previous year. Because and our counsellors visited many centres of the increasing cost of fuel, departments throughout the State to deal with these. are increasing their usage of smaller-engined vehicles, and I expect this trend to continue. Government Advertising Office Comprehensive records are being maintained The Government Advertising Office was on a selection of vehicles in order to estab­ transferred to the department from the Works lish actual iota! operating costs. When these Department last December. Its prime task is tests are completed, we will have a factual to assist Government departments, subdepart­ basis on which to make decisions on future ments and instrumentalities in preparing and Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates) 1459 placing advertisements with the media in Mr. HANSEN (Maryborough) (12.23 Australia and overseas. During the year it p.m.): The Minister's portfolio covers a handled 8,500 of these advertisements. wide range of responsibility. Because he controls the State Stores and tlhe Govern­ Conclusion ment Garage, in some ways he could be I cannot finish without some reference to described as the Government storekeeper the back-up services offered by the depart­ in Queensland. A faiJ;!y heavy responsibitlity ment in all aspects of its activities. I know devolves upon him from those areas. The these are deeply appreciated by those we Minister is also responsible for the Govern­ have helped. For instance, it produces a ment Printing Office. I was pleased to series of handbooks to assist small business hear him say that investigations have been people, distributes resource material to all made into updating machinery in that office. Queensland technical and further education On one occasion when I inspected it, I colleges, and has initiated a small business was amazed at the work that was churned education programme with the Education out under the circumstances. I understand Department's full support. that for some time consideration has been given to the establishment of a new Gov­ It gives a grant each year to the Queens­ ernment Printing Office on another site. land branch of the Inventors' Association, Without doubt that will cost a lot of money, advises inventors on such intricate matters as but the sooner the move is made the better patents, and puts some of them in touch it will be for all concerned, especially in the with interested manufacturers in Australia improvement of working conditions. and-through an officer in London--over­ seas. It maintains regional industries offices I agree with the Minister that probably in three regions in Queensland and another Panliament places the greatest strain on the in Sydney, and will soon open another in ·resources of the Government Printer by Melbourne to provide manufacturers con­ requiring "Hansard", Business Papers and sidering expanding or moving here with any cthe like to be printed at ~hort notice. If information they require, particularly con­ the new site is to be in the Wooiloongabba cerning the incentives we offer. Also-and area, I commend to the Minister a system of equal importance-the Sydney and Mel­ similar to the tube s)'iStem operating in bourne offices will be instrumental in identify­ Canberra, whereby material goes direct from ing and expanding markets for Queensland­ the "Hansard" office to the Government manufactured goods. Print~ng Office. The distance involved could be about 5 km; I do not know whether the It presents a general picture of Queens,land tube would foJlow the road. The tube industry through its bimonthly journal system seems to operate fairly successfully "Industry", produces various brochures, in Canberro. It is not dissimilar to the other publioations and audio-visuals, and has systems that were used years ago in depart­ funded a mm on Queensland industrialisa­ ment stores when the cash was handled Hon, which should be ready for general centrally. I have not heard of many release in movie theatres late this year. instances of material becoming caught in It has also undertaken an extensive advertis­ the tube, but that could be a possible cause ing campaign to boost uhe satle of Queens­ of holdups. I suggest the implementation land-made goods, inform consumers of the of such a system, even if the tube has to wide range of quality products now being go over the bridge and follow the highway. made in our State and urge them to give I would like to see something constructive preference to them in their purchasing. done about the Government Printing Office very sihortly. 'I am currently planning changes in the campaign whioh, I hope, wiU make the Mr. Moore: It shouldn't be built over at public even more a~are of the value of the Gabba; it should be built closer to buying Queensland-made goods. I am sure Parliament House. this will become an even more important factor in inducing manufacturers to expand Mr. HANSEN: It certainly is close at their operations in this State. the moment. I will not argue about the site, as long as something is done. I think FinaJ1y, I would like to pay tribute most people associated with the printing to my personal staff, consisting of my private industry would agree. The point made by secretary (Miss Elizabeth McKin:lay), my the honourable member for w,indsor does Press secretary (Mr. John Bragg) and my show the need for a Public Works Com­ two t)'ipists. AJong with my electorate mittee in Queensland. It could investigate secreta:Y (Miss Margaret McKinlay), they such a matter. I know that there is a par­ have gwen me long and honest service. Long liamentary works committee, but from the hours have meant nothing to them and they reports I have received from both Govern­ have always been avaioole to work when ment and Opposition members of that com­ reguired----iPart:icuJarly my p11ivate secretary. mittee, I do not think its opinions are Ehzabenh and Margaret, who are sisters, taken very much into consideration. I each recently became engaged within two believe that such a commiHee could discuss weeks. I offer them my heartiest congratula­ problems with the people involved. It is tions anrl wish them good luck, but I hope not a matter of members of Parliament that they do not desem me too quickly. making up their minds, but a matter of 1460 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

getting around and talking 'to the people we should look at the establishment of involved investigating the problems and com­ ethnic community groups within our society ing up ;.,ith the best possible solutions. to help these migrants to assimilate. The Minister mentioned immigration. Queensland's growth in population seems There has been some falling off in the to me to depend, to a large extent, on number of migrants entering Que~nsla~d. migration from the southern States. The It seems to me that the State M1grat10n Premier might say that this is ~use of Office is more concerned about migrants from the present socialist Government m New the United Kingdom than elsewh~re. The South Wales and the former sociaHs.t Gov­ Minister said that Queensland received 1,625 ernment in South AustmUa. I believe migrants last year, of w~on;t 84 received an that most migrants have come from Victoria, assisted passage. That md1cates that there certainly to my area, because of better .is also a falling off in the number of working conditions and longer holidays. They migrants arriving under the assisted passage are finding that Quee11511and is _not a!l scheme. The Minister referred only . to inaccessible place, and that the clrmate IS good. United Kingdom migrants, and said noth1~g about the influx of migrants from ASia, Mr. Moore: Their sun is like our moon, including refugees. that's the trouble-it gives a litHe bit of light and no heat. I question very much the need for a Queensland migration officer in the Agent­ Mr. HANSEN: I am not quite sure what General's Office in London. After all, our the honourable member for Windsor said. immigration policy is laid down by the Aus­ But these people are discovering Queens­ tralian Government, not the Queensland ~and. I believe that the people who ~re Government, and it seems to me that there coming forom the southern States and settlmg might be a duplication of the services offered. here to help buiJd up our population are, in the main Victorians. Our natural After aU, we are all Australian taxpayers, increase in pop~~ation has been slowing down and we should make sure that the resources over a number of years. of the Australian Government are available J:n the Budget the Minister has allocated to us as Queenslanders. There might be $50 000 for solar energy research. Queens­ some short-term advantage in having a ·land is known as the Sunshine State, and Queensland migration officer in the Agent­ Jt seems to me that that amount of money General's Office, but I am afraid it escapes does not quite fiU the biU at a time when me. we are told that we have only about five years in which to come to grips with ~he Still on the subject of immigration, the energy s~tuation. We have to do somethm_g Minister mentioned that, following the Gal­ immediately. One thing that we do have IS bally report, the Commonwealth Government sunshine. There are very few things that withdrew support for the Good Neighbour one can be sure of in this world. Someone Council. I notice that the Commonwealth said that we can be sure of death and Government did not put other recommenda­ taxes. I think tha:t in Queensland we can tions about ethnic groups into effect. The be sure that the sun will rise in the east greater proportion of our migrants are not in the morning. That does not happen of British descent, but that does not mean in every part of the wor1d. I can recall they are not good Australians or will not an old skipper of a shiip, who came from make good Australians. It is a fact of life the OI'kney IS'lands, saying to me, after that the great proportion of migrants are he had seen the sunrise over Sydney Har.bour of non-British descent, and I believe that at 5 o'clock in the morning, "This is the far more work should be done in this section place for me, because sometimes, for six of the community. I have nothing but months of the year, I do not see the sun at praise for the members of the Good Neigh­ all." bour Council, most of whom work in a purely voluntary capacity. They help Sunshine must be one of our greatest natural assets. Telecom, for instance, has set migrants to settle in, but I believe that up communication centres in the West ethnic councils would be able to work powered by solar-charged batteries.. It is within the migrant communities much moV!ing similar equipment into areas m West­ better than does the Good Neighbour ern Queensland. Simiiar work has been Council. I agree with the Commonwealth carried out in The Alps. When I see Government's decision to discontinue fund­ that the Sunshine State is going to spend ing for the council. I note that although only $50,000 on solar research thi_s year, I $120,000 has been allocated for this year, am lef,t wondering about how senously we only $30,000 was expended in the previous [ook at the energy situation. That amount year. That in itself is an indication of the of $50,000 is $2,000 less than . the sum winding down of the group's activities. I aHocated for an overseas parliamentary am not being derogatory of the Good mission this coming year. Quite frankly, Neighbour Council, but I think its activities I think we would get muah more value have been directed mainly towards migrants from spending that money on solar research from the United Kingdom. Because we than from spending it on an overse~ parlia­ are to a large extent depending on migrants mentary mission-not that I am aga~nst over­ to increase our population, I believe that seas parliamentary missions. I believe that Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1461

$50,000 would pay Htt1e more than the and have had to borrow money and obtain salaries of a researoher and his staff looking other assistance to have enough working at what has already been done in the solar­ capital to carry on. energy field. Small business plays an important role in DuPing the week-end, I happened to pick our community; it employs 45 per cent of up a "Reader's Digest"--J am a subsc11iber the work-force. Approximately 3,000,000 to that magazine; I did not piok up someone people are associated with small business. else's copy___,and read an aPtiole dea·1ing Big business attracts the attention of the with the city of Davis in Sacramenta, community but it does not employ the most California. It is a university city of 36,000 people; small business does. Small business people, in which emphasis has been placed forms a highly competitive sector of industry on energy resource savings. Particular in Queensland. It serves agriculture, mining, attention is given to the des1gn of homes. manufacturing, tourism and service industries. They are also using other fuels in order In many cases it is small business that pro­ to defeat the high cost of electricity and the vides the specialised products which big Jike. People who receive electricity bi.Jls business finds uneconomical .to produce, either of about $130 or $140 a quarter must be because of the number of units it requires looking very seriously at ways in Wlhioh or the low demand for the products. Small they can conserve electricity. Although business specialises in joinery, engineering, $50,000 has been allocated this year for that clothing and alternatives to standardised pro• type of work, if we are fair dinkum about ducts. An inherent trait of the community relieving the energy crisis the amount should is that we do not all wish to dress alike or be increased 10 times. to have the same type of garage or front doors. People want to be different, and Mr. Bcrtoni: Hear, hear! small business fulrfils .that need. Mr. HANSEN: The honourable member for Although some small businesses are Mt. Isa says, "Hear, hear!" The Little importers, others generate skills which are brothers who come from his electorate, not required on production lines. Small have developed something in this field that business produces many innovations, par­ should be followed up and encouraged. An ticularly in the repair and maintenance of expenditure of $50,000 does not even scratch important, costly machinery which is either the surface. imported or built thousands of miles from its point of use. That is particularly so with I notice an expenditure of $22,000 for a agricultural machinery, to which many feasibility study into the production of improvements have been made. If one goes ethanol by fermentation. Tha:t study is being back to the days of H. Victor McKay, one made in conjunction with the Department sees that Australia leads the field in the design of Chemical Engineering at the University of harvesters. Since then Australia has had of Queensland. There may be better ways of the initiative and the know-how to further producing that substance than the present develop and sell that type of equipment. method. If my memory is correct, ethanol Many businesses have been taken over by was being produced from molasses at Sarina international groups, which have moved before the last war. That operation was them away from Aust·ralia. However, they quite successful. all had their start in small business. '";he Minister referred to small businesses, Small businesses are often able to act as and I would like to touch on the relevant subcontractors in providing component parts section of the Department of Commercial and auxiliary services to larger firms. Such and Industrial Development. It is a small services should be encouraged outside the section which, no doubt, operates on a shoe­ metropolitan area by the offer of concessions string budget. In handing out advice I sup­ to overcome freight-eo~! disadvantages. I pose it would place emphasis on ability over know that freight concessions are available. all else. However, nobody but the Railway Depart­ Last year, on the recommendation of the ment is sure what they are. At one time Department of Commercial and Industrial concessional rates were offered for particu­ Development, srnaH amounts were handed lar products, and everybody knew what those out by the Commonwealth department that concessions were, but that does not apply encourages small businesses to decentralise. today. Lack of knowledge about them Much more could be done in this respect. engenders a distrust; people think that their The department does conduct surveys, and competitors are receiving more favourable the annual report mentions one it was associ­ concessions. ated with in the Wide Bay /Burnett region. The Labor Party recognises that greater The available resources of a region must consideration should be given to the resources be taken into account when small businesses of an area. We must look at areas where are set up. Some people, enthused with the there are concentrations of people and areas idea of private enterprise and doing their of high unemployment, whether it be in the own thing, undertake small business ventures. female work-force, the unskilled work-force Subsequently they may run into financial or the skilled work-force. In those areas difficulties and seek adV'ice. As the Minister extra inducements should be offered for the said, unfortunately that advice is too late establishment of industry. Inducements coufd if they have used their personal resources include long-term finance or concessional 1462 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

interest rates for the building of factories department for financial assistance for the in designated areas, particularly those that Little brothers. The Deputy Premier and have experienced a population drift. Treasurer (Dr. Edwards) has inspected the The Minister said that Queensland is a invention and had his photograph taken decentralised State. In some ways, we are studying it. Dr. Edwards is reported in "The fortunate that Brisbane is at the southern North-West Star" as saying- end of it. There may be some who think "lt would be a great pity if an important that had the capital been in the centre, Queensland invention was lost to the State there would be a feed-in from each end. and to Australia because of lack of sup­ It is a fact that the concentration in the port." larger city areas has resulted in costly problems for the Government. Of course, Other Ministers also have looked at 1he costs incurred by the Government are costs invention, and the Minister for Mines, Energy incurred by the taxpayer. Included in these and Police (Mr. Ron Camm) said that if an problems is the provision of transport, traffic application for assistance were made to the facilities and freeways. Department of Commercial and Industrial Development, it would be looked at very (Time expired.) closely indeed. He added- Mr. BERTONI (Mt. Isa) (12.43 p.m.): In "Certainly from my department's point rising to support the Minister for Industry of view, we think it has a tremendous fut­ and Administrative Services on the presenta­ ure in solar hot-water systems." tion of the Estimates, I pay a tribute to him A gentleman of some renown, the chairman for his co-operation throughout the year. I of the Queensland University's Solar Energy also thank his departmental officers, who Research Committee, Professor of Physical have been very co-operative in the various Chemistry Laurie Lyons, made a trip to Mt. areas coming under their jurisdiction. Isa solely to investigate and study the inven­ Today I bring to the attention of the tion of the Little brothers. The report in Committee what seems to be the everlasting "The North-West Star" read- saga of a solar energy tracking system that "His verdict: 'It's simple, adaptable and has been developed by the Little brothers in looks as though it would be inexpensive. Mt. Isa. For the benefit of honourable mem­ There is nothing else like it in Australia­ bers who may not be aware of it, the track­ that is fact. TI1ere are some others in the ing system was conceived by them five years world, but I think this one is so basically ago. It is a heat-differential tracking switch­ sound that it would compete with them.' ing system that has been produced at an economical price for domestic hot water "Professor Lyons said he was convinced systems. The system has been upgraded so of the value of the Littles' solar tracking that it may be used by commerce and indus­ concentrator, which uses a few litres of try. water a day to track the sun across the sky.'' The solar tracker requires less material, particularly copper, as it tracks the sun from Numerous people have looked at the inven­ east to west and develops a maximum heat tion and praised it. The honourable member generation from a minimum collector area. for Mt. Gravatt gave me a copy of Senator The only other known practical tracking Chaney's remarks in the Federal Parliament, systems developed have involved the appli­ and I thank him for doing so. Replying to a cation of expensive electronics. This one question by Senator MacGibbon about the involves no electrical motors, solar cells or Little brothers' invention, Senator Chancy electricity. It is extremely sensitive, with said- simple, relatively maintenance-free com­ "It appears that the two Queensland ponents. The principle involves the use of inventors to whom he has referred have air expansion and contraction resultin_g from produced something that is particularly sig­ temperature changes, which triggers water nificant in the area of solar energy. The valves connected to a diaphragm to provide potential value of solar energy as a sup­ the motive force. plementary form of energy at this stage is In operation, the system tracks on to the well established. I am sure that all hon­ morning sun, and gives a steady bleed-off ourable senators are interested in seeing this during the day to keep square to the sun sort of invention developed to the advant­ until it sets in the west. The advantages of age of Australia.'' this tracking system are its simplicity and low­ However one great problem remains to be cost factor. This invention could have a overcom~getting money from the M'nister's major impact on the development of solar department. I am surprised to see in the energy throughout the world. For those hon­ Financial Statement that only $50,000 has ourable members who have not heard of it been allocated for solar energy research. before, that is the principle behind this solar Quite frankly, I believe that is a disgrace in tracking system. a State known as the Sunshine State. Mt. Mr. Simpson: It is very simple. Isa could become the solar energy centre of the West, and development would follow. Mr. BERTONI: It is a very simple but In my opinion, the paltry amount very ingenious invention. Numerous applica­ being provided will go absolutely nowhere in tions have been made to the Minister's the field of solar energy research. Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1463

Mr. R. l. Gibbs: Why are you concerned The Minister's department's budget totals about Mt. Isa when you live mainly at $17,700,000. So surely a request for a mere Jindalee? $50,000-which, incidentally, is the extent of his department's solar energy budget-could Mr. BERTONI: The honourable member be acceded to by the Government. In is making one of his facetious remarks. I today's energy crisis, the Government should point out that he is not in his usual seat. foster the development of this invention. From discussions that I have had with the Mr. R. l. Gibbs: He does live at Jindalee, Minister, I know that he is looking closely Mr. Hewitt. at this project and that some problems do arise. However, those problems must be The CHAIRMAN: And the honourable overcome. There should be no further delay member is not in his usual seat. in providing assistance to the Little brothers. After their normal day's work, the Little Mr. BERTONI: I suggest that the depart­ brothers spend many hours on developing ment now has positive proof of the success their invention. They are now in the process of the invention. The Little brothers have of developing a secondary type of tracking received the top award on the A.B.C. televi­ system. It will track the sun in a way sion programme "The Inventors" and a gold different from that of the original system. medal overseas for their invention, yet the The reflectors move on a graduated scale Government seems to be delaying in giving and a separate tank, which can be used ~hem financial assistance to develop the pro­ for industry, is involved. A prototype has ject. I cannot understand the intentions of been developed and is working. All they the Minister's department. No wonder people need is the Minister's assistance to perfect it. in country areas become slightly fed up with Aren't we looking to assistance to indus­ Government red tape. This invention has tries in country areas to help relieve unem­ re~ived world acclaim, and the system is ployment and to promote decentralisation? tailor-made for the conservation of energy. Must inventions such as this be sold to It would be very useful if a crisis arose in Braemar or to some major concern that has the electricity-generating system based on its headquarters in Melbourne, Adelaide or coal. It. ~~s been de>:eloped in Queensland overseas? The local Press has stated that and politicians have mspected it and said the Little brothers have been offered royalties how great it is, yet its development is tied totalling $16,000,000. But because they up with a great deal of red tape. believe in Queensland, they have refused The attitude adopted in the south-eastern these offers. They would rather receive corner of the State seems to be that, unless assistance from this Government than be an invention is invented by academics, it is forced to go overseas for financial help. So useless; that anything invented must be I hope that the Minister will closely examine invented in the Brisbane area where there this project and will provide assistance in is media coverage every day 'of the week. the near future. The Little brothers are This Government seems to have adopted the in dire need of financial help. I hope that attitude that, if a person does not live within they receive it within the next month or so. 100 miles of Brisbane, there is something w:ong with him; there is something wrong Mr. SCASSOLA (Mt. Gravatt) (12.55 with anyone who chooses to live in the :p.m.): I have a few comments to make country or out West. on the Minister's Estimates. During the Budget debate last year I drew attention The Little brothers' invention is some­ to the need for a comprehenSJive approach thing that we should be proud of. They to the problems of smaH business. The are developing it at their own cost and on importance of small business to the economy a ~hoe-string budget. They should be and the community generaHy cannot be assisted to get their invention off the ground. denied. SmaH business is vital for our con­ Numerous offers have been received from tinued grow,th and prospedty. In terms overseas, but they want to develop their of employment, investment and output, invention in Queensland, for Queensland smal,l business makes a major contribution people. to the pros.pePity of our State and nation. The Government urges us to "Buy H has properly been said by a numbe;r of Queensland made". If this matter was people that, in our economy, smaU busmess not so serious, I would suggest that that is, in reaHty, big business. is a joke. The attitude seems to be that The Trea~urer's announcement in his we should "Buy Queensland made"-but only Budget speech of a further increase in the if it is made in Brisbane. pay-roll tax exemption figure is of sign­ ificance to sma11 businesses. In his report The LitHe brothers have been waiting for that was tabled here recently, the Director more than 18 months for financial assistance of Commercial and Industrial Development from the Government. They are waiting said that the State Government's action in for the Government to show that it is imple­ raising the pay-roll tax exemption in the menting its decentralisation policy. They 1978 financial year to a level of $125,000 are waiting for help in the development and was of prime benefit to smaH bus~nesses. marketing throughout the world of this great The increase this year will mean a further invention. benefit to smaH businesses. The raising of 1464 Supply [30 OCI'OBER 1979] (Estimates)

the exemption to $150,000 this financial cases they are required to collect stamp duty year has been welcomed by a11 businessmen, for the State Government; they are also particularly those concemed with small required to collect income tax revenue for bu~iness. the Federal Government. Responsibilities The information and counseHing services of that kind place a very heavy burden on that were begun in recent years are steps a small businessman; he simply does not have in the right direction. The statistics out­ the management personnel available to assign Hned in the Minister's speech and in the to those tasks. A survey carried out some departmental report show that inquiflies dir­ three years ago by the Federal Government's ected to the smahl business section of the small business committee found that each department increased dramaticaLly in recent business received annually in excess o.f 10 Hmes. As the Minister said, in the financial forms for completion to provide statistical year ended 30 June 1979 there were more information of one kind or another. The than 1,000 inquiries, a significant percentage majority of businessmen found the resulting of which came from regional areas. The information to be of little use to them. number of people seeking counselling services There is a need to reduce that kind of has increased dramatica.Uy. That underlines intrusion into the time of small businessmen. the urgent necessity of prowding adequate Government requirements, commonly called counselling and information services to small red tape, also place a disproportionately business people. Because the number of heavy burden on the small businessman. counseLlors is very limited, they have to Time-consuming, irksome and what small shoulder a significant burden. That w~ll business people regard as being unnecessary severely restrict the effectiveness of their administrative requirements by Government work. The counselling and infor;mation ser­ are a source of constant complaints. The v:ices throughout the State must be escalated Government can substantially assist small rapidly so that they wm be available to business by undertaking a conscious policy of all smaJl business people who seek them. ensuring that small business, as a sector, has the opportunity to participate in a greater The Minister and his department are to be congratulated on the initiative shown number of Government contracts. That in estab1ishing the small business educational objective could be achieved by the Govern­ programme. It wiLl provide a much-needed ment setting aside certain kinds of contracts service. I have no doubt that we wiU see exclusively for small business. it ex,pand rapidly in a very short time. Mr. K. J. Hooper: Did you bring this up [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] in the pai'ty room? Mr. SCASSOLA: I have brought it up Mr. SCASSOLA: Prior to the luncheon before in this Chamber. The Government adjournment, I was referring to .the rapid would need to make a determination in each increase in the services to small business case as to whether the contract could be in terms of information about counselling saotisfactorily completed by small business services, and the projected growth in the and whether a sufficient number of con~ demand for educational services. I believe tractors in the market-place would be willing that that expansion could be accommodated to compete for it, thus ensuring that public if the Government were to commit a per­ moneys were properly expended. centage of revenue received by way of pay­ roll tax for the assistance of small business The setting aside of contracts need not be generally. In effect, it would take only a confined to principal contracts, but could small percentage of revenue from pay-roll apply equally to the awarding of subcontracts to small business by requiring principal con­

Mr. FOURAS (South B11i~bane) (2.30 Migrants who come to Australia make p.m.): I wish to speak principally in this a conscious choice in doing so. They debate about the Minister's responsibiJity want to belong. They want to be Australian. for migrant affairs. However, before I They want to contribute to making this proceed to that, I say to the member for a great nation. They accept that their Mt. GraV'att that the smaLl businessmen of first duty as citizens must be to Amtralia. this State are waking up to this conservative But an Australian/Italian is simply that. Government. '!1hey know that it does not He cannot overnight stop being Italian and do a thing for them. Decisions such as become AustraHan as simply as the Minister those taken on late-night ~hopping, large states. We live in a nation that is a shopping complexes and lack of investment migrant nation in that 40 per cent of our incentive are cau~ing an increasing number population is the product of post-war migra­ of them to go to the waLl. I am sure that, tion. We have come together, the new come the next election, small businessmen and the old, to build a new Australian wihl know where their best interests lie. society. If this society is to work and become great, we must learn to respect One of the responsibilities of the Min­ each other's ideas, cultures, life-styles and ister for Industry and Administrative Services ianguages. We must learn whatever we is State migration. I believe that in that can from each other, and make choices of capacity the present Minister (Mr. Lee) is what to accept from our own culture. totaLly inept, and I ca!Ll for the allocation The Minister has also been quoted as of his responsibilitries to a Minister who at saying that he sees no room ~ere ~o.r a least has a slight understanding of issues muhilingual society or one With dlVlded affecting the migrant community. In fact, loyalties. When he speaks like that, surely the Minister's attitude to migrant issues he does not know what he is saying. Of lends itself to the title "Yeronga Ocker". course we live in a multicultural society. He behaves like an ocker on migrant issues We cannot accept multiculturalism unless ~e and should be given that title. For some accept multilingualism. One cannot ex1st time now he has been publicly attacking the concept of Australia as a multicultura:l without the other. and multilingual society, because he believes Mr. R. !. Gibbs: I think you had better that such a concept would create divisions spell "multiculturalism" for the Minister, as and div,ided loyalties. I shall quote from he is so dense. one of his Press rcleases that was widely The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. reported- Kaus): Order! I suggest that the honour­ "We shouldn't have two kinds of Aus­ able member return to his usual seat if he tralians-those born here and those from wishes to interject. overseas who make no effort to slot into our community and remain more involved Mr. FOURAS: To accept multiculturalism with their own ethnic background than and at the same time reject multilingualism with their new heritage." would be saying that a'U we have to gain from other cultures is a few recipes, some He went 011 to say- exotic dances and cheap labour. It would "Some migrants are confused, spending reduce multiculturalism to pizzas, the Zorba all their time in their own ethnic groups, dance and f'actory fodder, and I am sure that speaking their native language always, and the migrant community has much more to making no effort to live like ordinary offer than that. Austra:Hans." In fact of course, migrants have been That is an ouhlandish statement. If it very good factory fodder for this nation. reflects Government pol

A multilingu~l station that is both non­ recognition of the needs of our ethnic com­ commercial and non-party political will pro­ munities. It will provide the people of Bris­ vide a necessary social service. Most migrant bane with an opportunity to reap the bene­ groups in Brisbane ~re fragmented. Other fits of living in a multicultural, multilingual than one Finnish newspaper, no ethnic news­ society. paper is published in Brisbane. As well. as In dealing with the Minister's migrant providing entertainment for non-Enghsh­ responsibilities, I come to a third topic. On speaking migrants, an ethnic station .will numerous occasions the Minister has slated provide news and information to the vanous the Federal Government's implementation groups in their own language and will also of the Galbally report, which has been widely explain the range of social services that are accepted by all migrant groups in Australi~. available to them. The philosophy of the Galbally report IS based on the concept that we give the migrant The Minister must accept that many communities the funds so that they can migrants, particularly the older ones, will equate opportunities for their own people never properly speak English. He must and work out what their own needs are, accept that we live in an era where social rather than the Government's imposing cer­ services vary enormously from Budget to tain ideas on them. That concept has been Budget. How would he give such information accepted right across Australia, yet regularly, to migrants without the facility of an ethnic the Minister-the ocker from Yeronga­ radio? Ethnic radio is necessary because completely deprecates these moves. it equates opportunity for the migrant groups. The State Government's rejection of the It gives them an equal chance to under­ proposals in the Galbally report is best stand what is going on. It gives them an exemplified by its continuing to fund the equal chance to know what rights they Good Neighbour Council. I have nothing have. Any Government that opposes the against that council. Early in the piece it establishment of such a facility should be did a worthwhile job, but its functions have condemned. All the migrant groups in become irrelevant. Prior to the acceptance Brisbane, whether they are ultra-conservative, of the Galbally report, the Good Neighbour Right-wing, or le~n a little the other way, Councils-one of which was established in are appalled at statements made by the each State-were funded by the Federal Minister over the past couple of years on Government. In their early years they were migrant issues. They are concerned that involved mainly in welcoming migrants to he does not know what he is talking about Australia-in assisting with their assimilation and is representing a view that is decades in the community. It was not until the 1960s behind the times. He is intolerant towards that the councils' functions were significantly their aspirations, and most of them would changed to provide direct services for vote whole-heartedly in favour of his having migrants. That move coincided with the responsibility for migrants taken from him. general change in the Government's policy We must accept the reality that many from assimilation to integration. After read­ ing the Press reports emanating from the migrants, particularly women and those in Minister, I wonder if he understands that the older age-groups, may never properly that change took place over 20 years ago speak English. Therefore, alienation is an and that, rather than talk about assimila­ important problem. Obviously, a person who tion, he should talk about integrating migrant feels rejected and alone will tend to withdraw communities into the Australian nation. into his own community. The Galbally report recommended the abolition of the Good Neighbour Councils, Contrary to the Minister's statements, because funds could be better spent by the allowing a migrant better access to his migrant communi,ties. The report found that language gives him a better chance to fit the functions performed by the councils into our society and not become an ethno­ were largely irrelevant or had been taken centric. Also contrary to what the Minister over by other organisations, both Govern­ says, his solutions are a recipe for disaster ment and non-Government. The welcoming for the migrant community. Cultural ignor­ function has undoubtedly become largely ance causes discrimination. Not every Eng­ irrelevant to the needs of migrants. No-one lish-speaking person in Brisbane will relate can doubt that having a body which wel­ to the ethnic content of the programmes comes people, shakes their hands and says, "All the best", is irrelevant. Furthermore, broadcast, but the programmes will provide the councils' other functions, such as inter­ a continuing recognition and affirmation of preting, translating, welfaring and counsel­ the value of the language and heritage of ling, and support for migrant cultural activ­ these groups. I believe that the station will ities, have been taken over by other organ­ help to acquaint the general public with the isations. cultures of other people. It will provide a In the Estimates we are now debating the valuable service in keeping alive for the State Government has allocated for 1979-80 children both the language and culture of about $128,000 to the Good Neighbour Coun­ their parents' countries. cil. That is a senseless duplication. The Gov­ ernment should come to grips with the The establishment of Brisbane's ethnic migrants' problems and accept the recom­ radio station marks a major step in the mendations in the Galbally repmt. Because Supply [30 0CfOBER 1979} (Estimates) 1469

the Minister is so out of tune with the wishes in office in South Australia we saw what was of migrant groups, the Government is wasting almost a mass migration of industries from its funds and is doing nothing innovative that State. This has become an obvious trend, to help migrants. but I suggest that with the change of Gov­ It is about time that something more ernment in South Australia we might see an positive was done. The Minister, through alteration-- the Press, has urged families to adopt a Mr. K. .J. Hooper: That has nothing to do migrant. He believes that to be a marvellous with the Estimates. suggestion. I, too, think it is a good idea for the acceptance of people from other Mr. ELLIOTT: It has everything to do countries-and they want to be accepted­ with the Estimates. What I am demonstrating but that is as far as the State Government's is that the forward thinking of the Minister policies go. The Government has not done and his department has brought about a anything innovative; it does not have any situation where industry is building up in idea about the wishes, hopes and aspirations Queensland. of our migrant people. Mr. K. J. Hooper: He would not have an I again reiterate that it is about time that original thought in his head. the ocker from Yeronga was removed and that we had as the Minister responsible for Mr. ELLIOTT: Unfortunately, the people migrants in this State somebody who has some on my right-it would be more appropriate idea of what migrants want and how to go if they were on my "Left"-would not have about servicing their needs. an original thought as far as industry is concerned. They are interested only in Gov­ Mr. ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (2.50 p.m.): ernment industry. As far as we on this side There are three areas in particular I would of the Committee are concerned, the develop­ like to mention during this discussicm of the ment of industrial estates provides a tre­ Estimates. The first is industrial development, mendous incentive to industry in this State. the second is the Minister's role in handling The terms and conditions applying to the all Government purchases, and the third is development of industrial estates are abso· his newer role of administering oil movements lutely fantastic. New industries could not to make sure that fuel is readily available to be better served. I hope that in years to all parts of Queensland following the oil come we will spend even more money on crisis. the development of industrial estates to fur­ Firstly, I would like to pay a compliment ther decentralise industry. I whole-heartedly here this afternoon to the Minister and his support the concept of industrial estates and officers for their co-operation in the setting the guaranteeing of loans to industries that up of a Department of Industrial Develop­ are prepared to take advantage of these ment industrial estate in Oakey. It will stand opportunities. the area in good stead in the future. I wish to make a few comments about another role of the Minister, that is, the Mr. K. .J. Hooper: Is that near Oakey purchase of motor vehicles for the State Creek? Government. The Minister is in the unique rposition of being able to influence the Mr. ELLIOTT: It is not terribly far from future trend by purchasing more fuel­ Oakey Creek. It is good to see that the efficient Government vehicles. Members honourable member's knowledge of geography who have a 1ittital, access to capital, cash-flow about solving the unemployment crisis that management and the like. The member for exists in Queensland today, urgent initiatives Mt. Gravatt this afternoon referred the should be taken in the Minister's depart­ Minister to the great need for improved ment to create new job opportunities and access to capital for small business enter­ move away from what is presently a depart­ prises. ment of stagnation. The first subject that I wish to raise is As there is a need for departmental one that has received a great deaJ of publicity officers to travel throughout the State, I in recent days, that is, the take-over of would hvpe that the Minister would give Queemland companies by southern-based serious consideration to the appointment of firms. The question I would like the Min­ additional staff. Alternatively, there is the ister to answer is: What is his Department suggestion that we could draw upon the of Commercia,! and Industrial Development resources of industry, colleges of advanced doing to ensure the job security of Queens­ education and, in areas such as Townsville land workers in the face of southern the university. ' take-overs? Earlier in this Estimates debate, the mem­ The take-over that affects my electorate ber for Svuth Brisbane referred to the possibly more than any recent take-over development of large shopping centres. If would be the Henry Jones I.X.L. take-over my memory serves me correctly, he indicated of Provincial Traders Holding Limited. As that that trend was adversely affecting small most of the people working at P.T.L. live business enterprises in the State. However in the electorates of Wynnum, Lytton and the tenants in those shopping centres ar~ Chatsworth, I would like to know what small business people-people who have been steps the Minister will take to safeguard given an opportunity to st,art off in new the jobs of these workers. 1472 Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates)

For members to understand the take-over his di~posal an excellent opportunity to try of P.T.L., I will outHne how Henry Jones to stop the take-over. What I refer to is I.X.L. acquired P.T.L. and the pathetk the recommendation by the board of display by the Government of this State in directors of Provincial Traders Holding try,ing to appear to the people of Queensland Limited in its annual report for the year to be concerned about the employment of ended 30 June 1979. In that report there workers at P.T.L. Henry Jones I.X.L. star{ed was a reference to the take-over offer of to acquire P.T.L. in February of this year, Henry Jones I.X.L., and it stated- when it purchased a 14.2 per cent interest "Shareholders should have already by buying the interest of Canadian and received an offer dated lOth August 1979 British controlled George Weston Foods from Henry Jones IXL Limited to pur­ Ltd. It followed this up with further share chase all their Provincial Shares for a buying until, on 27 June 1979, it had a consideration of $1.65 cash per share. The 23.2 per cent share. board has recommended that aU Provincial At that stage, the managing director of shareholders accept this offer from Henry Henry Jones, Mr. John EILiott, stated that Jones which closes on 9th October 1979." Henry Jones was not contemplating a take­ Why I say that the Treasurer could have over bid for Prov,incirul Traders. However, taken action to try to stop the take-over within two weeks of that statement, Henry is that one of the five directors who voted Jones made a cash offer of $1.65 a share on that recommendation is Sir Ernest Savage, for all shares it did not own in P.T.L. ,who is also a director of the S.G.I.O. Surely, then, the Government could not Further, as at 10 August 1979, the S.G.I.O. trust the word of that company, which made was the fourth biggest shareholder in P.T.L., a statement and within two weeks was doing controning 938,505 shares. So whilst .we a complete turn round. Perhaps the Gov­ have on one side the Treasurer making ernment should have had a look at what statements that southern•based companies Henry Jones I.X.L. did wihen it took over should not take over Queens'land companies, the State jam factory at Buranda. It and that the take-over wiH not be in the was not long after it took over that factory best interests of Queensland, we have on that it closed. the other side a Government instrumentality What did the Queensland Government do? for which the Treasurer is directly respons­ If we look at the Press release by the Deputy ible being party to the decision to recom­ Premier and Treasurer on 26 June 1979, mend to shareholders to sehl. One would we see that he stated- assume that by this date the S.G.J.O. has "On the other hand the Government sold its shares in P.T.L., ensuring that was looking to avoid the very bad effects Henry Jones I.X.L. has 100 per cent control that some recent takeovers had had on of Provincial Traders. Queensland companies, where these had From that information, it is apparent that either been closed or relegated to branch the Treasurer is either incompetent in that office status. he does not know what the S.G.I.O. is doing "Concurrently we wiWJ. ensure that or his statements on the Henry Jones I.X.L. Queensland is able to attract capital from take-over were made to try to make the ahl parts of the woruct to facilitate the people of Queensland think that he had a development of the State and the advance­ concern for Queenslanders. As I stated ment of locaUry based f,ree enterpPise. earlier I would like to know what steps the "Dr. Edwards sa:id that insofar as the Minist~r for Industry and Administrative present CBA/IXL move against Provincial Services is taking to safeguard the jobs of Traders was concerned, he would be mak­ workers at P.T.L., as already the job rot has ing the Commercial Bank of Australia started. aware of his displeasure at their involve­ Early in October a Mr,. Bob Ing~am, ~ ment in these transactions. director of Ingham Chickens, which IS "The bank's move was in no way to the involved in the Henry Jones take-over of benefit of QueensJand. P.T.L., came to Brisbane and took to dinl!er "Dr. Edwards said the move against managerial ~taff from the stock feed sectiOn Provincial Traders had aH the signs of of P.T.L. The workers at Provincial Traders the worst features of these takeovers. now refer to that dinner as the "Last Supper" "If the moves aga:inst the company were and Mr. Ingham as "Judas". The reason successfuJ it was clear that the con­ for that is that he gave the staff personal sequences would be that Provincial Traders guarantees that their positions were secu~e, would be broken up as a viable Queensland yet, within two weeks, two of th.e n:anager~al company." staff at that dinner had been dismissed w1th The las,t part of the Treasurer's statement the reason that their positions were no longer is very important, as he stated that the needed as their jobs could be done in Sydney take-over would not benefit Queensland, and by staff already employed there. that Provincial Traders wou1d be broken up Even the manner in which these men were as a viable Queensland company. dismissed was most unsatisfactory, particu­ One would assume that the Treasurer had larly to persons who had given many years' a concern for QueensJand workers. If he service to the company. At half pas,t 3, half did, he certainly did not show that concern an hour before these two gentlemen were to in the following weeks, when he had at knock off work, the manager of their section Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates) 1473 came to them asking, "Can I have the keys Mr. MACKENROTH: I would like to, to .the company cars you control?" He took Mr. Gunn, but I was answering an inter­ the keys of the company cars, then gave the jeotion. men their pay packets and superannuation pay-outs, and said, "We have a security The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! guard here to drive you home. Get going. The honourable member must always address Goodbye." That is typical of the attitude his remarks through the Chair. adopted by southern-based companies to Mr. MACKENROTH: I will do so. Queensland workers. The Minister has at his Last Thursday, in answer to a question, disposal the means of doing something about the Deputy Premier said- it, so he should do something. "We did get assurances from the com­ Further to this, because of a company pany that took over Provincial Traders policy changing the output of the stock feed that there would not be any decrease m section, a further three people will be dis­ the number of persons it employed in missed from the office and 10 workers from Queensland depending, olf course, on con­ the mill. Because of Henry Jones's policy trol in the ma!'ket-place and output." of testing all its own products and testing I can only say that two people have been all new feeds, I understand that work pres­ sacked and a further 13 are to be sacked. ently undertaken by workers at the Depart­ As I understand it, they are to be sacked ment of Primary Industries research station because Henry Jones I.X.L. has started to at Rocklea wiH be transferred south-once sell off P.T.L. H will sell off to southern again creating less work for Queenslanders. companies the portions of that company that Possibly the most disgusting aspect of the it does not want and, as a result, I am whole affair is the involvement of the Queens­ sure many more people wiH lose their jobs. land Government through the S.G.I.O. As Last night's "Telegraph" contained an recently as last Thursday, in answer to a amide headed "Joh to look again at take­ question, the Deputy Premier and Treasurer overs block". It read- said that the Government did not have any control whatever over the market-place. No "The Premier, Mr. Bjelke~Petersen, is control at all! Yet one of the directors on investigating new ways of preventing take­ the board of the S.G.I.O. is also a director overs of Queensland-based companies." of Provincial Traders. As I have said before, But even today, on the front page of the the S.G.I.O. was the fourth-largest share­ "Telegraph" we see the headline, "Govern­ holder in Provincial Traders-that is, up till ment silent on share raids", with the follow­ the company take-over. ing comment- "State Cabinet is considering secret Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Are you saying, in effect, moves to attempt to stop share raids and that this Assembly has been misled? takeover bids on Queensland companies." By the time Queensland gets around to doing Mr. MACKENROTH: I think that this anything about the take-over of Queensland morning the member for Lytton, in his per­ companies, there will be no Queensland­ sonal explanation, showed quite clearly that owned companies left. The Government has the Deputy Premier did mislead the Chamber had plenty of time to take action, but it has last Thursday when he said that the member done nDthing. It has been in office for 22 for Lytton had done nothing about the years and, until now, it has done nothing. take-over in June. In fact, the member for Lytton had written a letter to the Deputy Mr. R. J. Gibbs: On reading that article Premier and had received a reply. It is quite further, would you not agree that we are obvious to me that last Thursday the Deputy entitled to know the names of the com­ Premier did mislead Parliament. That was panies represented a:t the meeting? one of the many occasions on which he has done it. Mr. MACKENROTH: I agree. Since I came into Parliament I have noticed Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Would any other Par­ that members are not made aware of many liament stand for that? happenings in Queensland politics. While the Minister for Industry and Administra­ Mr. MACKENROTH: In any other Par­ tive Services may laugh, he is a party to liament such a Minister would have the these secret decisions. He should be letting grace to stand down. The Deputy Premier ,the Parliament of Queensland know what has done nothing for Queensland. Every day is going on in the State. The Minister we see his changing attitudes. When he was should do something about the job losses in elected as leader of the Liberal Party, that Queensland and try to create new jobs for party thought he was the Messiah-the gold Queenslanders. at the end of the rainbow, so to speak. But I turn now to the report of the Depart­ what has he done? He has changed into a ment of Commercial and Industrial Develop­ member who attacks people personally in an ment. It contains two quite interesting para­ effort to make political capital. gmphs. Mr. Scott: That is about all there is The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. of interest in it. Gunn): Order! I ask the honourable mem­ ber to return to the Estimates. Mr. MACKENROTH: I agree. 1474 Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates)

In 1976 we read in the Press that the The Minister would remember that some two Premier was flying to Western Australia the months ago I asked him a question regarding following day in a new bid to get a steel the availability of Bills and Acts from the mill for Queensland. Honourable members Government Printing Office. Pecple have will recall many statements about Queens­ told me that they are unable to obtain a land's getting a steel mill. Reference has copy of the Prisons Act from the printing been made to twin steel mills-one for office, and when I rang the Government Western Australia and o·ne for Queensland. Printer and asked him why this Act was In propaganda prior to the last State election unavailable, I was informed that it had been the people were told that we were to get a out of print for five years. An Act such steel mill in Queensland to use Western Aus­ as the Prisons Act affects a lot of people. tralian steel and Queensland coal. The It is in great demand. ~remier told us of the course that the railway lme would follow across Australia. Hidden Mr. Lee interjected. away in the report of the Department of Commercial and Industrial Development are Mr. MACKENROTH: Perhaps it will affect two paragraphs, which read- the Minister pretty soon. A lot of people "A. study examining the feasibility of want to know their rights under that Act. estabhshmg a steelworks in Queensland When we see the hundreds of people this Gov­ either combined with or separate from ~ ernment is arresting during street demonstra­ similar operation in Western Australia tions and then putting them into prison when was completed in draft form. ' they will not pay their fines, we realise that they want to know their rights under this "The analysis indicated that an e:x'port­ Act. But they cannot go to the Government based steel industry was not viable under Printing Office and buy it. When I rang the ~ur~en~ cost structures, though there are office of the Minister for Welfare and asked mdJcatiOns that the international steel why this Act was unavailable, I very quickly market is strengthening. If this trend con­ tinues a revised estimate of viability will received a photocopy of it in the mail. Per­ be undertaken." haps it was an attempt 'to shut me up. Hidden away in that report is a statement We sit here passing Bills that amend legisla­ that there wiH not be a steelworks in Queens­ tion or initiate new legislation, and these land. Perhaps the Queensland Government Acts of Parliament should all be available could make that known ,to the people whom it to the people of Queensland. The Minister tried to deceive prior to the last election said that people would not want to know into voting for it by believing that it would about some of the legislation that we pass. provide a stee:lworks in Queensland and If that is true, perhaps we should never pass further jobs. it. Because every Act of Parliament affects somebody in Queensland in some way, those Mr. Lee: Don't you want one? Acts should be available through the Govern­ Mr. MACKENROTH: I do want one, but ment Printing Office to every person in I have only to read the departmental report Queensland who wants to buy them. If an to see that we are not getting one. Is it Act goes out of print, within a week the true that we are net getting a steelworks? Government Printer should reprint it so that it is available to the people of Queens­ Mr. Lee: I will answer that later. land. The situation should not be as it is Mr. MA.CKENROTH: I did no1 realise now, with some Acts having been out of that the Minister had not read the report. print for five years. Mr. Lee: I will reply in due course. I ask the Minister to do something about that situation very urgently. If we are to sit Mr. MACKENROTH: When I visited the here and pass legislation, copies of it should Government Printing Office I was astonished be available to the people of Queensland so at the archaic conditions under which the that they will know what we are doing and workers do their job. I was very pleased how it will affect them. They must know to see that the Minister had taken the Gov­ their rights. ernment Printer overseas with him to pur­ chase new machinery. This will enable the Mrs. KIPPIN (Mourilyan) (3.29 p.m.): In Government Printing Office to update its speaking to these Estimates today, I want machinery and come more into line with first to say that I appreciate the attention modern sta<'1dards. I hope that the Minister that the Minister gives to the problems faced can do something very quickly about moving by members in their electorates, particularly the Government Printing Office from George with the development of industrial estates. Street across to the proposed site at Wool­ There is an industrial estate in Innisfail and loongabba. it is with a lot of pleasure that I have seen The first sentence of the section of the it grow considerably in the past couple of report devoted to the Government Printing years. In fact, at this stage most of the Office makes illuminating reading. It states- allotments that have been developed on the "During the year, this Office provided estate have been spoken for either by new a satisfactory service in meeting the print­ industries looking to come to the area or ing requirements of State Parliament and industries already established in Innisfail. the stationery needs of all Government This is particularly pleasing when we con­ departments." sider the number cf problems experienced Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1475 in the setting up of this estate. While it is in AustraJi.a. There are the plantations at situated out of the town area, there are a N erada. The tea is harvested by locally couple of houses in the vicinity and a con­ produced machinery and is dried in the siderable number of complaints have been treatment factory at Nerada. When the tea received about high noise levels emanating is manufactured into the finished product, from some industries on the estate. In my it is taken to the industrial estate where it opinion, it is unfortunate that the estate is packed in the new packing factory that was not zoned as heavy industry when it was opened only recently. was first gazetted, because the Innisfail dist­ Our tea industry has been in operation rict does have a small number of heavy for about 12 years, but it is still a fledgling industries. The main industries are electrical industry. It is a small industry and it is contracting and machinery manufacturing. struggling to make headway. In fact, it is There are a lot of primary industries in the only over the last couple of years that Tea Innisfail district. In fact, we have a flourish­ Estates of Australia has looked like breaking ing tea industry. The harvesting machines even on its operat,ions. So the help that the for that industry are made by local manu­ Minister's department was able to give in facturers in the industrial estate, and I feel the construction of this packing factory was that this is quite a feather in our cap. appreciated. It meant that the factory was A number of our companies manufacture constructed years before it otherwise would machinery for the sugar-cane industry. \Ve have been. In Innisfail we now have a manufacture our own sugar-harvestling bins complete operauion, from growing tea right and other heavy equipment that is used in through to marketing it. the sugar industry. So there is a considerable The tea industry was also helped dming amount of industry around Innisfail, and I the year when it won Government contracts would like to see much more of it attracted to supply Government institutions with tea. onto the industrial estate. However, zoning In fact, for the last month Nerada tea has the estate as "special light" and "special been used in Parliament House. Winning industry" does preclude a lot of this industry a Government contract :is an indication of from moving onto the estate. It was unfor­ how successful this industry has been and tunate that the local Johnstone Shire Council shows that it can compete with the long­ in its wisdom, did not request that th~ established tea manufacturers and importers industria~] estate be zoned for heavy industry of the world. The quality of Nerada tea is right from the beginning. This would have comparable with that of any tea that was overcome many of the problems that have submitted for consideration. It was pleasing been experienced in the last year. that Nerada gained that contract. The drainage on the industrial estate has improved, and I must thank both the John­ I would like to take this opportunity to stone Shire Council and the Department of mention once again the recent fuel crisis Commercial and Industrial Development for in North Queensland, although, with the this. During the last serious flood in the easing of cane harvesting, it has now largely area, there was more than 2ft. of water passed. However, it is something that we over the estate, and I must say that this must not forget. Although the situation has did discourage a number of industries from now eased, we must still turn our attention taking up leases on it. But since the to it and look to next year, as the same improvements to the drainage system have problem may occur again. If we pay atten­ been carried out, flooding is no longer a tion to it now, we have an opportunity to serious problem there. People are becoming overcome some of the problems experienced confident in tak[ng up land on the estate. earlier in the year. Most of those problems were caused when fuel companies were I think that the Minister's decision earlier caught napping. this year to extend the guide•lines for the establishment of industr:ies on the estate was Mr. Moore: Hoarding, as well. significant, particularly to industries in my area. As I have already said, my area has Mrs. KIPPIN: The honourable member for a considerable amount of machinery-manu­ Windsor mentions hoarding. It was only facturing and also serv·ice industries. While natural that farmers, who were coming into we cannot manufacture all the machinery the harvest season, would store fuel. When that we need, we have rather large repair rumours of fuel shortages spread, of course plants, and this sort of industry would be the farmers stored as much fuel as they welcomed on the estate. This is e:xcactly possibly could. They should not be condemned where it should be. A 1!ot of industry in for that. Had they not stored a lot of fuel, Innisfail 1is moving out of the residential and they would have been in much more trouble. town areas into the fringe areas and, of In fact, I would like to see all cane farmers course, the industrial estate is the place in my district hoard or store--- where it should be located. So an extension of the guide-lines has proved quite helpful Mr. Lee: Not hoard-store. in Innisfail. Mrs. KIPPIN: No, not hoard, but store I also thank the Minister for the help about six month's supply of diesel fuel in that his department has given the tea indus­ preparation for next year's harvest season. try in Innisfail. I am very proud to be able If that storage takes place, it will ease any to say that Innisfa]! has a complete tea problems that arise when ships are delayed industry. In fact, it is the only tea industry or there are other supply problems. 1476 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

I think the companies are now aware that been involved in the mining industry for it is no use looking at average consumption the last five or 10 years. They need a great in northern areas. When the cane season deal of heavy machinery to shift the ore. starts at approximately the beginning of The fuel companies did not foresee the extent June, the mills work 13 days a fortnight. of the demand that would be placed upon Such concentrated activity places a tremend­ them by such increased mining activity in ous demand on fuel supplies, and this demand the North. is sustained for a number of months. If At the moment we do not have serious supplies of fuel are low at the commence­ problems of fuel shortages in the sugar ment of the cane season, obviously we are industry, the fishing industry or the mining going to run into trouble. industry. However, I am concerned about Mr. Seott: Why can't the department do a the beef industry, as we are fast approaching survey, now that the slack season is with us, the wet season. It is absolutely imperative so that farmers and everybody else in the that adequate diesel fuel supplies are made North know where they stand? available to the Far North before the com­ mencement of the next wet season. Country Mrs. KIPPIN: I am sure the department people need diesel fuel supplies not only to has noted the point raised by the honour­ run trucks and other machinery but also able member for Cook. to operate plant for lighting and refriger­ The northern cane growers' organisations ation. Diesel fuel is the life-blood of many know exactly what their requirements are country stations. I am pleased to say that and what the supplies in the district are. the problem has been sorted out fairly weH Mr. Scott: That is the fuel that is stored. and we do not seem to be facing serious difficulties with distillate. Mrs. KIPPIN: Yes, that is the fuel that is stored, and the expected supplies that are I deal now with the severe shortages we coming in ships. are experiencing with A vgas. The matter has been mentioned a number of times in I pay tribute to the cane growers' organ­ this place over the last couple of months. isations for their efforts during the period In the beef industry, prices have improved in which we had problems with the supply of and activity has therefore increased. A diesel fuel during the harvesting season. number of properties are endeavouring to They monitored the situation very well. They obtain Avgas so that they can muster by could tell us exactly where the fuel was in the helicopter. That might seem an expensive district, how much was needed, and whether process, but today labour on cattle properties enough fuel existed to get farmers through is virtually non-existent. Those who left week by week. the industry during the slump just have not Mr. Scott: They could not tell us where returned. Whereas five years ago sufficient it was, though. men could be obtained for the muster, that is absolutely impossible now. The supply Mrs. KIPPIN: Yes, to a large extent they of Avgas for helicopters is thus imperative. I knew. appeal to the Minister to keep a very close The cane growers' organisations did an watch on Avgas supplies for the Far North excellent job not only in monitoring the whole so that mustering can be completed before situation but in persuading their own mem­ the wet season. bers to supply others with fuel if they had more stored than they actually needed. I Charter aircraft operators have also borne was very pleased by the spirit of co-operation the brunt of the Avgas shortage. A number that existed during the cane harvest. Although of them have had to endeavour to sell their it was a particularly worrying time for most aircraft because they could not get the of the cane industry, harvesters did not actu­ charter work they needed to keep up the ally run out of fuel. I had a number of interest and redemption payments. It is a phone calls from people who did not know shame to see those aircraft leave the north. where their fuel was coming from the next We have reached the stage where the use day, but we always managed to find some. of light aircraft is much more acceptable to the community. I was very disappointed I also pay tribute to the fishing industry to see an air show conducted at Woodstock, during that time. Distillate supplies were outside Townsville, a month ago. There directed to the sugar industry at the expense seemed to be an endless supply of A vgas of the fishing industry. The fuel companies at the air show. B.P. had a tanker there were amazed at the extra consumption of to fill aircraft as fast as they had used diesel fuel in the Far North; but they did their fuel. It seemed to me to be irresponsi­ not realise that there was a 200 per cent bility on the part of the organisers of the increase in consumption by the fishing indus­ air show to use so much Avgas purely for try alone in that area. Consequently, it sport and pleasure whilst people needed it stands to reason that there would be a severe to continue operations on their properties. drain on stores. In the last couple of months, a number The mining industry has experienced an of meetings have been held between the Fed­ increase in activities-over 100 per cent in eral Department of National Development the Herberton/Mt. Garnet area alone. The and officers of the Queensland Department increased price of tin has attracted a con­ of Commercial and Industrial Development siderable number of people who have not under the leadership of Mr. Graham Baker, Supply (30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1477 and I have been very pleased to see that Commercial and Industrial Development, they seem to have brought into the open and, if so, does he believe that the founda­ the areas in which problems of supply tion should be assisted to defray costs have arisen. I look forward to very close of research?" monitoring of the supplies of both A vgas In reading the report of the department, and diesel in North Queen&land. In fact, I was stunned to find that only one para­ I do not think it would go amiss H the graph refers to the most pressing problem Minister appointed an officer specificaHy to facing the nation today. I am talking about monitor supplies of fuel to the Far North. structura~ adjustment; I am talking about I am not suggesting for a minute that technological change; I am talking about the the Government should consider intervening computer revolution; I am talk1ng about the in the distribution or supply of fuel in North problems that this raises for the whole of Queensland. That is a job that the fuel the community and the whole of the world. companies have aLways done, and I think it All I found was- would be very unwise for the Government "From the State's point of view, it is to interfere. However, a very close watch pleasing to note the growing national! must be kept on the fuel companies to awareness of the need for structural ensure that they dis,tribute supplies equitably adjustment." amongst various industries. It went on to speak about the Crawford I am looking to both the department and Committee, and it finally said- the fuel companies to pwvide additional "It is hoped that the nation responds storage for fuel in Nor,th Queensland, pre­ to the imagina~ive challenge proposed by ferably before the commencement of the the Committee rather than opting for next cane-harvesting season. There is a shorter-term, partiaJ solutions to the p:o­ cons,iderahle amount of interest in the dev­ blem of highly protected, uncompetitive elopment of additional fuel storage at industries." Mourflyan ha:nbour. Any ship that can enter Cairns ha:nbour can enter Mourilyan '!'hat is structural change. There is not harbour, and I think it would be more a word about the computer revolution. It than opportune at this stage for the Min­ will affect jobs, business, unemployment­ ister and his departmental! officers to do indeed our whole lives. The Government a:H they possibly can to encourage a fuel depart~ent that is charged with business company to establignificance. is taking place at Mourilyan, and I suggest We have all watched mechanisation take that they should consider very quickly apply­ jobs, yet Australian Parli

Let me deal with home-building. Pre­ As to libraries-at the national conference wously, eJCCavatron was carried out by hand on the use of rni'Ili-comrputers held at the and shovel; today H is done by the backhoe. University of New South Wales in August In days gone by, concreting was done with 1979, Professor Jur·is Reinfelds pointed out hand and shovel; now it is done by Ready­ that a new type of computer was capable mix bringing in the concrete in a truck. of achieving in one day what the most Whereas framing was once cut and erected effi'Cient worker could hope to achieve in on the spot, now it is pre-cut. Flooring 100 years. One day to do what a worker was once done by hand; now it is end­ could hope to do in 100 years! And in this matched by machine. Roof frames were report there is not one word about com­ once done by hand; now roofs are erected puterisation replacing workers. with factory trusses. When I was ·in America I looked at the Look at plumbing. In the old days, we operations of some of the supermarkets. saw lead-wiping, lead-beating and soldering; In American towns, there is no such thing today, that has been replaced by P.V.C. now as the little corner store. Now super­ pipes and glue. So in one house alone a markets will face their own revolution. A great deal of work formelily carried out by combination of the laser and the computer hand has been replaced by modern tech­ using what is called the Universal Product nology. And that is only the tip of the Code, made up of lines and numbers, is iceberg. dramatically changing supermarket oheck-outs The room-sized computer of the 1960s has and storeroom employment. The shop assist­ been replaced by one that will fit into the ant merely passes the item purchased over a palm of the hand. Computer power that transparent plate set in the counter, the laser beam scans the code printed on the was rented for $17,000 a month in the product at the factory and its computer mid-1960s can be bought outright today partner prints the item by name, together for less than $1,000. wHh its price, on the customer's bill. All Up to now, our experience of micro­ this takes less than a quarter of the time electronics has been limited to pocket cal­ we normally spend at Vhe check-out. That culators and digital watches. Today's tech­ system cuts out stocktaking, traces what is nology can provide machines and processers sold and re-orders, traces poor-selling and that wiQI replace most of today's workers. unpopular lines and sees that they are not The machines are desired by industry and re-ordered. It means fewer cash registers, commerce because they are designed to cashiers, shop assistants and clerks, and reduce labour costs by eliminating jobs. New reduces bookkeeping. I could go on and on, jo_bs will be created! nevertheless; but they but the examples I have given suffice to show Will be fewer and will demand new skiUs. that this Parliament should have its own No-one has yet told us what will happen joint, high.powered committee to !investigate to the unskilrled who will be thrown on to and report on the effects, both good and the technological scrap-heap. In this report bad, in our State, in the short term and from the department charged with commer­ long term of the modern computer and cial development in this State there is not technological changes that are affect·ing m. one word about H. I have shown that we can expect a steady In December 1978, a report on computers but alarming reduction in jobs over the next in Australia entitled "Usage and Effects" few years. A recent study done at the Cam­ found that computers had cost 200,000 men bridge University showed that unemploy­ and women in offices their jobs. On the ment in Britain will soar from the 1978 level positi~e side, they had created only 53,000 of about 1,300,000 to 5,000,000 in 1990. 1_1ew JObs. For each new job created, three The European economic community has pre­ Jobs were lost. The word processer will dicted that the 6,000,000 people currently decimate the typing pool and office staff. unemployed will swell in number to The computerised typewriter with a speed 18,000,000 by 1990 and that, of these, 5 per of 500 words per minute, with a memory cent, or almost 1,000,000, will be young bank, can do the work of five or six tyrpists. people who have never worked in their lives. Between June 1975 and June 1978, the European countries point to computerisa­ number of staff under 17 years of age tion as the major cause of the cancerous employed in banks in Australia declined by growth in despair and misery for the young. 47 per cent. That was in the past. Now Our Federal Liberal Government does not the electronic bank teller wiU accept deposits even keep statistics. In March the Federal and provide cash withdrawals. In fact it Minister for Employment and Youth Affairs can do most of the things done by a fl~h­ (Mr. Viner) said- and-blood teller, and it will do it 24 hours "The Department of Employment and a day, seven days a week. It will eliminate Youth Affairs does not collect on a regular tellers, ledger-keepers and back-up staff. basis statistics which indicate the number of Telecom has said that over the next six people who have been retrenched from years it will reduce the tota1l number of industry or who have lost their jobs as a ma.intenance workers by over 20 per cent, result of the introduction of automated and at the same time it will increase the techniques." number of lines available by 60 per cent­ What is the Queensland Government doing in spite of fue reduction in the work-force. about this looming threat to thousands of Supply [30 OCI'OBER 1979] (Estimates) 1479

jobs and to many small businesses? The We must look for new answers to find new report of the department shows that-- jobs. I do not like the idea of a manpower commission but we must have some such Mr. Warburton: We might have to ask commission' to continually monitor our work­ the Japanese. force, to alert us to its pitfails and its Mr. BURNS: That is probably correct. pressure points. It should report to us, as members of Parliament, and the community The report of the department w_e are deal­ generally. It should be able to. place us _in ing with today shows that Liberal and a position where we could reliably predict National Party members are either too lazy what jobs will be available in five years' or too ignorant of what is going on in the time so that we can train kids leaving school work place to care. Nothing is happening. and workers for the types of job that will What investigations have been carried out be available, not for jobs that have already into reports which show tha~ the IJ?Siiions disappeared or will disappear in t~e next of typist, clerk and teller Will . be :'Irtually year or two. Today we are turnmg out extinct by 1990--that they wlll disappear workers who fall in that category. as job occupations? What has been done We must look at job development and job about the prediction that by the year 2000 re-training. Perhaps we could redesign, jobs for assembly-line workers, shop assist­ replan and reactivate a type of R.E.D. scheme ants, maintenance technicians and members through the local authorities, using them and of the middle-management class will be as their local staff to prevent the growth of scarce as hen's teeth-that they will disappear greater Canberra-based bureaucracy. I could from the list of jobs available? What has go on and on on that theme, but I just been done about reports that, by the year wanted to make that important point. We 2020, jobs for fishermen, garbage collectors, should be looking at the possibility of using drivers, teachers, dentists and most salesmen machines to advantage, and in such a way will have come under threat and virtually that workers may benefit. disappear as machines take them over? It may be necessary to consider new goals Only the unions and the Labor movement for society as a whole, and that may involve have shown any anxiety over future job work-force restructuring. But we should be prospects and security, and I must say that prepared to look at it. It should not be a they have been slow and have dragged their one-party matter, but one to be considered feet. I remember that in the 1960s we had by all parties. After all,, it affects every Pt;r?on committees on automation, and we were con­ in the commumty. It IS not a party-political cerned about the problem. Great meetings matter, but one for us all. were held at the Trades Hall, but because good times came along and everybody had When we look at the report of the Depart­ a job, we forgot about it. Now that times of Commercial and Industrial Development are getting tough we are all thinking about we have to look deeper than just the few it. lines devoted to comparing Queensland with New South Wales, Victoria or somewhere Where are the Government's initiatives or else. I want to highlight just a few of the investigations into job-sharing? What is the comments made by those who prepared the Government doing about the regularly sug­ report. On page 2 the point is made- gested idea of each worker working only half "Average weekly earnings failed to keep a day with another worker taking his place pace with inflation, resulting in a decline in each afternoon? That suggestion is being their real value." made at conferences all over the world, but have we looked into it to see if it is feasible, We of the working-class movement have been to see whether there is any possibility of saying that for years, but we have always implementing it? been told that it is the workers' wages that are going up and that prices travel along When can we expect reports on such behind them. However, this is the second schemes as only one worker per family, report produced by a Government dep<:rt­ with five or six weeks' annual leave and ment to say what workers have been saymg earlier retirement, with not just a 35-hour for years. The Forestry Department report week, but maybe a 30-hour week? That is released the other day said exactly the same heing debated now in the European Eco­ thing: workers' wages are not keeping pace nomic Community. with prices: The report goes on to say- People may scoff and laugh at these sug­ "The continued high savings rates signify gestions. The conservatives will predict doom a lack of consumers' confidence in the and gloom as they did when people spoke immediate future rather than excessive of the 56-hour week and one week's annual incomes." leave during the original Industrial Revolu­ tion, but we must look at all these proposals There we have a Government department if we are to avoid long-term unemployment saying that the workers are not getting too that could affect 20 per cent of our work­ much, that the reason they are saving is that force. That is not a way-out prediction. they have no faith in the promises of Mr. It is a prediction by people in government Fraser, Dr. Edwards, Mr. Lee or any other and in Government positions. But those pre­ Government Minister. dictions are not made here, because we get Mr. Moore: Probably a member of your no predictions or consultation. party. 1480 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

Mr. BURNS: I would not think so. Is the When young men and women leave school honourable member suggesting that the dir­ and cannot get a job, what do we hear from ector of the department is a member of our Fraser? We have had year after year of party? I think the Minister might have to broken promises. He said, "There will be protect him against that sort of an attack, more jobs than people to fill them. Unemploy­ because under the system instituted by Bjelke­ ment is dropping and will continue to drop." Petersen and others, if he was prepared to The level of employment has not stopped take out a ticket, even in the Liberal Party, dropping year after year since Fraser entered he would be expelled from the job. office, but he keeps making these promises and does nothing at all about unemployed Mr. Moore: You were talking about the young men and women. I despair for them. Forestry Department. I worry about the young fellows and girls Mr. BURNS: I am · talking about the who come into my office regularly looking Department of Commercial and Industrial for work. We cannot get them jobs. Development. Mr. Moore: So do we all. Everybody does. Mr. Moore: You said the Forestry Depart­ Mr. BURNS: Of course we worry about ment. them, but we have to start to do something Mr. BURNS: Yes, the Forestry Depart­ for them. It is no good beating our breasts ment report said the same thing. or rubbing our brows and going home and saying, "Look, we are worried about it." The report then goes on to discuss popu­ This Government runs this State. It has to lation trends. I heard the honourable mem­ plan the action in this State. We look at ber for Carnarvon talking about people the action that was taken during the flooding into this State from the South. He Depression. Reference was made previously asked the Premier a Dorothy Dix question to forestry, and the member for Windsor about the large number of people flooding interjected. Each year, more people were into Goondiwindi and Warwick. I thought given work in the forestry area. Nowadays that I had better have a look at this, so I each year in this State we are employing went to the report. It states- fewer people in forestry. The numbers of "Natural increase in the period was people employed are decreasing all along the 18 001, a reduction of 754 on the same line. period in 1977-78." The Government talks about freezing the That is the figure for births. We do not even level of the Public Service and all of the have as many children as we used to. The things that give no help to the young men report continues- and women who are unemployed. We are "Net migration levels, however, declined training young people at schools for positions from 12 734 to 10 608 over the same per­ that will not be available in 10 years' time. iod." Our present system is training people to be So fewer people came to Queensland. Let redundant in the future. Thi,; is happening us look at the population trends in recent because we are not planning. If one talks years. In 1973-74 a total of 38,100 people about a five-year plan, one is called a came to Queensland. In the 12 months to socialist or a Communist or something like March 1979 the figure was 10,600. In the that. But we should be sitting down and period to March 1978 the figure was 12,700. thinking sensibly about the problems that vdll In 1977-78 the figure was 11,300. So the bedevil this State for some time to come. numbers are dropping back all the time. We are a lucky country. We have a lot The honourable member for Carnarvon of things to offer. With our great rural said that Goondiwindi was booming, that and mineral industries, we will probably people were coming into the area so fast have the opportunity to overcome the prob­ that the authorities did not know what to fems to such a degree that we will not be do. So we had a look at the statistics for the treated as badly as many other industrialised area. We found that there was an inter­ countries throughout the world. But that censal net migration loss of 371. The honour­ will not happen by go·od faith. It will not able member also talked about Warwick. It happen by making reports and saying, "Oh, lost 437. Others also referred to Longreach. we are doing better than South Australia. It had a population of 3,873 according to the They are all coming up to Goondiwindi at 1966 census. In 1971 the population had present because we changed the death-duties dropped to 3,455 and in 1976 it had dropped scene." That is not the story that people to 3,354. The population of Charleville went want. They want some planning so that from 4,881 according to the 1966 census to there will be jobs for their children. The 3,802 in 1976, 10 years later. Queensland is men and women whom Government members booming under the Liberals! Where are the represent are starting to become concerned, people going? The country towns are closing, because it is the middle-class children who and in the city here young people cannot will be affected by the computer revolution. get jobs, but little or nothing is said about It is the chiidren who would normally be that in these reports. These are the facts. employed by the banks, the insurance com­ They are taken from the Government's own panies and the Public Service who will have reports and the census figures produced by to bear the fu.Jl brunt of the introduction its colleagues in Canberra. But what do we of the new machines that will take their have as far as employment is concerned? jobs. Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1481

In order to see the effect that this will have, and something to excite their palate. The one only has to walk out into the Parliament old Aus,trailiian meat pie was the first-- House kitchen and look at the microwave Mr. Burns: They cook it in microwave oven. I was talking the other day to a leading ovens today. · hotelkeeper in this State. He told me about a visit he had made to America. He said Mr. SIMPSON: That is ri~ht, but how that in years to come most of the ordinary many of them are eaten? They are not restaurants, and even the semi top-class as popular now as a lot of other foods restaurants, will have most of their food that people now demand. prepared in a factory and delivered to Of course, we now have the newcomers to them. When a person orders a meal from Austmlia. By that I mean the more recent the menu, they will shove the prepared food ones, not the white man or the black man in a microwave oven and serve it to him. who came some time ago. The migrants Only a limited number of restaurants win ~vho have come more recently have given cook the meal that is ordered. The system us new forms of dishes that add to our of mass production will take over that interest in food. industry, in the same way it has taken over most other industries. The net result for Mr. Moore: Witchetty grubs and grass­ the worker is that prices do not get any hoppers. lower but jobs disappear. Mr. SIMPSON: We could turn fulJ circle and go back to those. That would probably Mr. SIMPSON (Cooroora) (4.7 p.m.): It depend on the way they were presented. gives me pleasure to support the Minister Some people do not like the thought of in a positive way, particularly in relation to eating octopus. However, they usuaHy Hke industry in Queensland. We have just heard its taste unt'vl they find out what it is they the knocker's attitude. We look back in history and think of the time when the are eating. wheel was invented. It was said then that that Technology will improve the lot of the would be the end of the world; that everv­ worker. It is amazing that the people s.itting body would move so quickly and so owosite condemn the worker to a life of effi·cient1y that everyone would be done out of a drudgery and hard-slogging, back-breaking job. Then Stephenson invented the steam work suah as digging holes. Today we have engine, which was used in the railways and mechanical aids for that sort of work. They in industry. It was said then that there have to be manufactured, maintained and would be no jobs left; that it would be repaired. Industl'ies have developed to carry the ruination of everything. I just do not out those functions-industries that did not under~tand why people have to assume that exist before. Even in our offices we have when new processes are invented and more a few techni.cal aids that have reduced the cf?cient ways of doing things are found, it number of office staff. However, those aids Will mean fewer jobs and a lawer standard are not completely reliable. They need of living in the community. It just does not servicing, repair and maintenance. That ha\ e to be that way at all. All that is provides employment opportunities for other required is to employ peo]Jle in a way that people. gives them the standard of living that we If we are looking for extra jobs, we must want them to have. fu!Hy develop the resources of the State such as the tourist industry, which I referred Mr. Bums: Would vou oive us some idea to eadier. We have merely scratched the of the new jobs in ~which you are going surface of the wol'kl's potential tourist to re-employ them? market. We wiJl get a few more tourists to Queensland when there is an efficient Mr. SIMPSON: Yes. We can activate the tourist industry that is not hung up on a tourist industry. The touri~t industry in this five-day, 40-hour, week. When we get over State has a tremendous potential. It is a that we will get somewhere. In fact, it very labour-intensive industry. It is being is technology that wiH enable overseas tour­ held back at the moment because it is based ists to come to Australia. A couple of not on a seven-day, 40-hour, week but on generations ago it was almoM unheard of a five-day week. That is also keeping for people to travel to such remote countries restaurants closed. The honourable member as Australia. The Government is taking referred to restaurants providing factory­ that sort of positive step. produced meals that will be t1hawed out in The Government has pro¥ided industrial a microwave oven and put in front of the estates for the establishment of tertiary customer. I am afraid that is not borne out industries. One of those estates has recently by the clientele of restaurants. They are 'been developed at Yandina, in my electorate. looking for personalised service and variety Some land has been purchased at Noosa in food-something different from what and I sincerely hope that the Minister will they have on their own tables. 'look to the ear1y development of the Noosa Industria,! Estate. There is no doubt that Mr. MO{)re: They want a bullock on a ,that land has potential. IndustriaHsts from spit. other parts of Austmlcia who are v;isiting on halidays \;Vill be attracted to that area Mr. SIMPSON: ~hey want all those to develop subsidiary factories. That would unusual things. They are looking for variety be one way of turning a holiday t~ip into 1482 Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates) a business/holiday trip. Some of them may full implications arising from factory see Noosa as an ideal place for semi-retire­ effluent. Ultimately its disposal becomes ment from which to manage their factories. a problem for the local authority. Perhaps They may even make their already established the Minister can explain to me how a tenant southern factory a subsidiary of the one in on one of the estates can take out a lease Queensland. Other people see the potential and become independent of the department of the locally available manpower. I am and the local authority. At what stage does sure the Minister will look into those aspects he become part of the local authori~y's of that development. responsibility? Obviously, he makes applica­ While I am talking of the site at Yandina, tion to the department, not to the. local I may point out that the ginger factory authority, when he begins. I should like to from Buderim has recently applied for a know where the responsibility .lies in the site. Although I was unaware of it, they various stages of development, especially for had an effluent problem. ApparentJy the provision of services such as sewerage. that is not uncommon with the handling What is the position with water? What and washing of vegetable products. Vege­ if a factory such as the ginger factory requires table matel'ial does not break down as readily a water supply larger than that of the local as sewage effluent. I am concerned about the rules laid down for the handling of town? Is the local authority notified of sewage on industrial estates. Are lo.cal s·hire that in advance so that it will be able to councils consulted about problems that may cater for the company's needs? Is any Gov­ be assooiated with indtustries on these estates? ernment assistance provided to ensure that The Yandina industrial estate is not one on the local residents do not wake up one day which noxious industr,ies are ahlowed. We when the factory begins operating and find have to look at the definition of "noxious that they have no water coming from their industry" in that sense. taps? I understand that the quant~ty of :ovater required by the factory at Yandma will be I believe that the ginger industry, from in excess of that now required for the towns which there arises a problem with effluent, of Yandina and Eumundi. could properly be determined as a noxious industry. It would have been in the interests As to industries and their involvement in of the ginger farmers to site it on many the community-! think we must look at hundreds of acres of land purchased far more where they fit in and try to assist them in cheaply along the highway, with ready access every possible way. I am certainly trying to to transport, where the effluent could have do that with the ginger factory. Perhaps been sprayed and oxidised at low cost. there is a cheaper method of treating the Mr. Moore: To make humus? effluent than the one for which the ginger farmers might eventually be asked to pay. Mr. SIMPSON: It is oxidised out in the Cane growers are in a similar position air very thinly. It is far cheaper to spray because they require a mill to handle their it out than it is to treat in a concentrated product. A few years ago, a report was com­ area. The factory has been shifted from piled on the Moreton region. A study was one urban area (Buderim) to another (Yan­ carried out and those carrying it out stated, dina). Obviously there has to be a treatment "We consider that 550 acres in the Moreton works that is capable of preventing any region is suitable for growing cane." They objectionable odour or end product that gave no consideration to either the area or will pollute streams. the tonnage of cane that was needed to keep It appears that there is a lack of com­ a mill operating. When I pointed that out, munication between the Minister's depart­ they said, "Oh, we didn't think of that. We ment and local government on matters of will draw a bigger area." I assisted them to effluent, clean water and clean air. In this do that, and a far greater area was shown in instance, the effluent is handled in the indus­ the report as being suitable for cane-growing trial estate and then, presumably, the prob­ and necessary to keep the mill operating. lem is handed over to the local authority. Many industries need a larger output and I suppose that disposal is in the nearest scale of operations in order to operate pr~fi­ stream, or the tidal part of that stream. tably. That is true of the Moreton mill. The ginger factory is a very worth-while It is one of the smaller mills in Queensland, industry. Because of the high quality of its and it needs some guarantee that it has product, it has achieved 90 per cent of the a viable area from which to draw its cane world ginger confectionary trade. It has a supplies in the future. Co-operation between very rosy future and is looking for as many the local authority and the Government in growers as possible to keep up the supply. relation to the allocation and use of land in The new factory at Yandina will result in the area can ensure that land that is, say, double the present production. But I ask: subject to flooding or not suitable for housing How is the problem of disposing of effluent may, within the framework of private enter­ in a town area to be overcome? How is prise and freeholding of land, be town it to be done without offensive smells planned in such a way that it can most profit­ emanating from it? ably be used for the production of cane. I would hope that circumstances require That will keep the factory in operation and local authorities to be consulted and given preserve the existing jobs in the area, and every opportunity to become aware of the that is very important. Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates) 1483

Another point that I wish to stress is that Mr. P. N. D. WHITE (Southport) (4.28 water resources and coal resources should, p.m.): I congratulate the Minister, together where possible, be used in the area in which with the director and staff of his department, they are available. This will encourage on the completion of another successful year. ~ecentralisation of the type now taking place This department has brought great credit to m Queensland. In my opinion, cities should the Government and the State. It is a g_row in accordance with their natural poten­ progressive department and one that is held tial and should not be fed artificially by in high regard throughout the State and carting water hundreds of miles to them as also outside it. is done in New York. That is quite abs~rd. It only adds to the problems of water supply One of its great achievements over the and sewage treatment and places strains on years has been the creation of a sound road systems, power supplies, and so on, and balanced economy in Queensland. As a all of which impose an additional burden on result, the State is no longer entirely depend­ the taxpayers. Water should not be col­ ent on primary industry. The department is lected on the Sunshine Coast to be sent back to be commended also for the very real to Brisbane. It should be utilised locally as incentives that it provides to industry both it should be in other parts of the State.' within and outside the State. These incen­ tives are certainly appreciated by the manu­ With the abolition of death duties and facturers whom I have met. My area gift duties, with the tremendous potential contains quite a number of manufacturers, of our vast coal reserves (based on the and they all express such appreciation. The present and anticipated rate of consumption, incentives are offered by way of land and tJ:ey are expected to last another 200 years), buildings. They are given to pioneer indus­ With our tremendous water resources (nearly tries as well as others. This progressive 50 per cent of the nation's rainfall is in policy has attracted manufacturers from all 9ueensland) and with proper utilisation of over Australia. Some have come to my Its resources, Queensland can look forward area from Melbourne and South Australia. to.~ r~sy and promising future. The proper Of course, I expect that the drift from utihsatwn of our resources is something that South Australia will now be halted. As ~e must push and promote as much as pos­ well as giving the State a balanced economy, sible for the good of the people in Queens­ the department has created some jobs. land. I could not help agreeing with the honour­ The lack of fuel is a problem facing the able member for Lytton. I am sure that Minister. It is a shame that the Federal many other Government members will agree Government has not done what the Japanese with him. The provision of jobs for young Government did, namely, retain in storage people is a subject that worries all of us. at least 12 months' supply of liquid fuel. The creation of industrial estates in Queens­ Our primary producers and other users of land is one of the department's great success fuel, not the oil companies and the Govern­ stories. It has been instrumental in pro­ ment, are now being asked in effect to viding a very decentralised approach to build t?~ _storage facilities. Sometimes they industry and jobs throughout the State. are criticised for allegedly hoarding liquid In my area of Southport the Molendinar fuel: 'J}ley are not hoarding it; they are Estate has been under way for some years. stormg It prudent,ly for their own use in It has 31 established factorues, with three future seasons in the event of uncertain fuel more under construction. It is now ful!ly supplies. The only alternative is some allocated with about $11,000,000 worth of system of priorities implemented by the buildings and plant, and employs about 800 Government, which will make it unnecessary people. It is a real success story. I am for primary producers to store large quan­ very grateful to the department for its fore­ tities of liquid fuel. sight in providing that estate. Reference has been made by previous The department has almost finished Stage speakers to the relocation of the Govern­ I of a new industrial estate at Ernest Junc­ ment Printing Office. In view of transport tion, which is not far from Molendinar. It costs and the need to have the Government should be finished by tlhe end of this year, Printing Office in close proximity to Parlia­ and will make available 17 additional indus­ ment House, I think that such a move trial blocks, some of which have already would ~ unwise. The Government Printing been applied for. It will cater for further manufacturing industries and prov,ide more Office IS called upon to do work for Parlia­ ment at short notice and under great pres­ jobs in the area. Stage II of the estate has sure. Shift work is involved. I should been planned already. think that the ideal site for the new Govern­ I understand that the Beenleigh Industrial ment Printing Office would be the block Estate is almost fully aHocated. We now where the Bellevue previously stood. have a fully a!llocated industrial estate at Molendinar, an almost full e!>tate at Been­ There should be greater incentive given leigh and 17 indust:r:ial sites at Ernest Junc­ by the Government to inventors. New inven­ tion which, I am sure, wiN be taken up tions create new jobs for people in this State. quickly. I hope the department is already looking at more land for further light indus­ (Time expired.) try in the Southport area. 1484 Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates)

I do not think people commonly recog­ Mr. Moore: It will be a monorail. nise just how big a proportion of the work­ force in my area is employed in manufac­ Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: I am talking about turing. On the figures available to me, of a railway to provide transport for industry, an active work-force of 40,000 people, 9 to not just for people. 10 per cent are engaged in manufacturing Mr. Moore: I see. I am making a bad industries that are not commonly associated mistake then. with the Gold Coast. That is a very sig­ nificant proport,ion of the work-force. On Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: I appreciate the the figures I have, tourism probably honourable member's help, anyway. Despite accounts for only 11 per cent of the work­ those reports--of some substance, one would force on the Gold Coast. The manufacturing hope-the report of the Metropolitan Tran­ sector of employment is almost as big as sit Authority, which has now been released, tourism. It deserves recognition for provid­ does not indicate that a railway for the Gold ing employment opportunitj.es. Coast is imminent. I believe that it is in the Construction, which is one of the biggest interests of the Government for it to make employers on the Coast, takes up only 13 a very clear statement about what is going per cent of the wock-force. to happen to the Gold Coast railway. I I believe that the growth of 1ight industry think the sensible thing to do in trying to on uhe Gorld Coast will cont,inue. That area help industry is to electrify the line to offers very significant advantages. It has a Beenleigh, but also right now to acquire the very skilled, stable work-force, because land for a corridor so that the Beenleigh­ people like living there without any of the Southport section can proceed when funds big-city hassles. Many people who like living are available. there accept jobs with lower skills than their I want to commend the activities of the abilities shou[d attract. When new indus­ Gold Coast City Council and Albert Shire tries come to the coast-that happens almost Council Industrial Committee. This is a on a monthly basis~and advertise for skilled joint committee and is an excellent example workers, they are available there. of local authority co-operation. Its promo­ Wages on the Gold Coast are more than tional work is excellent. The example it has reasonable. Workers do not demand extra set, and the successes it has achieved, should money to compensate for bad working con­ not be jeopardised by either of the local ditions or 1iving in disadvantaged places. authorities' trying to promote its own area They are quite happy to accept reasonable separately. Industrial development in that wages. area, and probably in any other area, should proceed along reasonable lines. An Opposition Member: There are a lot There was a suggestion not long ago that of bad payers there. each council should set up its own industrial Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: Bad payers are to committee, and one could not argue with be found everywhere. that provided that there was a joint indus­ trial committee operating at the same time. Mr. K. J. Hooper: There would not be So I suggest that the Minister's department any worse payers down there than the Min­ should check any suggestion that that joint ister for LocaJl Government and Main Roads. industrial committee might break up. If there is any such suggestion, the Minister Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: That is a question I will dodge. should use what influence he has to keep it together to promote the area as a region The work-J;orce on the Coast has a broad rather than as two separate regions. range of skills because, as I said, of the I would like to congratulate the Govern­ people who want to live there and who are ment and the Minister's department on tak­ pr,epared to accept jobs requiring lower than ing over the funding of the Good Neighbour their level of skill. Council. It appeared at one stage that this One matter that should appeal to many very valuable organisation would go into Opposition members, including the honour­ limbo, and I think it is a great credit to the able member for Archerfield, concerns the department that this has not been allowed lack of industl'ial problems on the Coast. to occur. For all those reasons, I believe the future Mr. Lee: Fouras didn't like it, though, did of light industry on the Coast will be very buoyant. he? He condemned it in toto. The lack of a railway line between the Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: Unfortunately, I port of Brisbane and the Gold Coast is a did not hear what he said. distinct drawback. I believe that it is Mr. Lee: You can take it for granted commoJ11ly recognised that the decision in from me. 1964 to tak,e up the milway line to the Gold Coast was a very unwise one. That Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: If the honourable is not putting too fine a point on it. But member for South Brisbane did give the there have been some statements made council a bucket, I cannot understand why. recently that have given the people on the We are very lucky to have it. If its funding coast some heart that a railway is about to had been withdrawn and no further action come. I hope there is some substance in the taken it would have gone into limbo, and statements that have been made. we would all have been much worse off. Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1485

I would now like to touch on the problem member for Cooroora. It is a labour­ of apprentices. We cannot talk about the intensive industry and it has great potential progress of industry unless we have the in this country. Although Opposition mem­ skilled manpower to promote that progress. bers do not like to hear mention of penalty I know the problem is worrying a lot of rates, there is no doubt that penalty rates people, particularly in my area. Firstly, for are having a very constricting effect on the a lot of reasons that we have gone into before, tourist industry. young people cannot get apprenticeships, Mr. Y ewdale: That is not true. and, secondly, we face the problem of a lack of training facilities. Hopefully the training Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: The honourable side of the problem will be overcome to member says that it is not true. I shall some degree with the establishment in 1981 quote what was said by the owner of just of the Gold Coast College of Technical and one large motel in my area. In the last Further Education. three years he has reduced his work-force An Opposition Member: What do you think from about 120 to fewer than 60. He about block release? Do you support it? attributes the reduction directly to penalty rates. Whethe'r or not he has halved his Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: Yes. It seems to work-force because of penalty rates, there be a success. When this college is opened, it is no doubt that they are having a sign­ is to be hoped that young people will be ificant effect on job opportunities, and able to do their training on the coast. This Opposition members cannot deny it. will be of great benefit. At present carpentry The other thing that the so-caLled Labor and woodwork is the only course available leaders in my area wi11 not admit is that on the coast, and apprentices doing any most of the people working in the tourist other course have to travel to Brisbane for areas on the Gold Coast want the pena[ty­ their training. But, with the opening of this rate system aboli;;hed. They are quite happy T AFE college and the structuring of the to work odd hours. It suits them to have courses to suit local industry, the apprentice­ their days off during the week and to work ship system in my area will get a great shot on Sundays. in the arm. I hope that the Department of Commercial and Industrial Development will Mr. Vaugh:m: They cut each other's keep a close eye on the development of a throat. curriculum in the T AFE college, to ensure Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: AU right. We that it is structured for the apprenticeship provide in the award a margin for working area and to cater for local industry. odd hours, and leave them to work out I was impressed by some of the arguments their hours of work with their employer. of the member for Lytton when he was That will suit che employer and the great talking about technology and the problem majority of people working in the toul'ist it is causing in the workplace. industry. Mr. Austin: He did not put forward any Mr. Austin: ~here would be more jobs. solutions, though. Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: Of course there Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: No, and I am would be more jobs. That motel owner afraid that I have not any, either. It about whom I was speaking would put on is something that worries me. There is another 60 people. no doubt that with the introduct,ion of tech­ Mr. Vaughan: Can't he make an applica­ nology into industry, in particular, a growing tion to the IndustriaJ Commission? That number ru people wiH be unemployed. I is what it is for. do not believe that many of our schools are sufficiently concerned about training Mr. P. N. D. 'IA'IHTE: I am not sure people for jobs. This was brought home whether he has made an application or not. to me only yesterday when I was talking The fact is that the penalty-rate system has to a group of Grade 12 students in my reduced his work·force by half. electorate. Almost without exception they I am indebted to my coJ!eague the mem­ said, "We do not know what we are going ber for Redoliffe for giving some figures on into next year. We have not had even a pharmacy conferences. Not all o.f the reduc­ few days of on-job experience this year. tion in the number of conferences held in We don't believe the schooJs are training Australia can be attributed to penalty rates, us for jobs." Consequently, they will be but some of it can. About 1,000 battling when they go out to try to get phanmacists used to attend three separate jobs in industry. I suppose that this problem conferences in Austral,ia each year. Hardly really does not concern the Department of any conferences are held in Australia now. Commercial and Industrial Development but, So, in one sector alone, 1,000 people are unless the education system is geared to going overseas to have their conferences, providing people for industry, hOIW will indus­ because it is cheaper to go to Singapore try expand in the future, and how wiU we than to Perth. Some of that is directly place young people in jobs in an increasingly attributabJe to penalty rates. That is an technological age? industry in which it is possible to create I wish to touch on another industry, more jobs. If the Opposition were se~i:ms namely, the tourist industry. I agree com­ aJbout increasing employment opportumt1es, pletely with most of the remarks of the it would have a look at those penalty rates, 1486 Supply [30 OcroBER 19791 (Estimates) because the abdl~tion of peoolty rates would and not being handed out to the States to create a lot of jobs in the tourist industry. use in an effort to reduce the demand for An Opposition Member: There are too liquid fuels. many people in the tourist industry who know Mr. Austin: That is not right; it is fin­ nothing about it, and are only there for a ancing its deficit. quick quid. Mr. VAUGHAN: Anyway, that money is Mr. P. N. D. WHITE: That is a very shal­ being collected as a result of import parity low and inane remark from someone who I pricing. suspect knows nothing about the tourist The prime purpose of the introduction of industry. import parity pricing was to reduce the In conclusion, I again congratulate the demand for liquid fuels. However, this has Minister, his director, the department and an effect on industry. Increased petrol prices all the personnel in that department for a increase the cost of production of industry, job well done in the past 12 months. We with a consequent increased cost to the con­ look forward with confidence to the industrial sumer. future of this State. The Government should be having a good look at our rail transport system. I have Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (4.46 p.m.): I spoken before about the electrification of our followed the Minister's remarks when he suburban lines. introduced his Estimates. I was particularly interested ·in what was said about the Mr. Lee: I can't fix the rai·lways. increased use of vehicles with smaller engine Mr. VAUGHAN: It is in the interests of capacities and the fact that the department uhe industries the Minister is supposed to was conducting an analysis of the operating represent that they have access to reason­ costs. Although that is commendable as ably priced transport. Coots are increasing. an effort to reduce the consumption of liquid The Minister has spoken about our compet­ fuel and to counteract the escalating costs ing on the world export market. Lf the costs of liquid fuel supplies--particularly petrol­ incurred by our industries increase because the Government has to be more positive and of transport costs, we wi11 be in trouble-­ look at the overall problem that confronts and it will be for that and many other us. reasons. I think all honourable members today The Federal Government has held on to received a copy of the No. 2 energy report $2,000 million to ba1ance its Budget instead of the Institute of Public Affairs in New of handing it out to the States. This State South Wales. That organisation issued a ~hould be really screaming about that. As I similar document in May last year. It made understand it, we need something like a rather deep analysis of the problems con­ $200,000,000 to complete the electrification cerning the supply of liquid fuel. Everyone of our suburban rail system. At the is aware of the world oil supply problems, moment, we are only spending peanuts on and the complete lack of action by the Fed­ it as we progress gradually. We could very eral Government to combat those problems. well be faced with a serious petrol shortage One of the tables in the publication referred in the not too far distant future, pai'ticularly to clearly shows where Australia is heading when we consider moves on the world market in this regard. Until recently we were 70 with supplies of oH from the Middle East per cent self-sufficient in liquid fuels. How­ States. ever, that situation will change vastly by We talk about all the new cMl-mines that 1985. By the latter part of the 1980s we will be opening up, but as I see it we are will be in a very serious situation. dmng absolutely nothing about the electrifica­ From my point of view, and the point of tion of lines carrying the majority of coal view of any thinking person, the Government There has been talk of electrification of the should take notice of those facts. We have to Blackwater.Glads:tone line. However, in my reduce the demand for liquid fuels. It is all humble opinion, the Government is not pay­ very well to say that we will change to ing sufficient attention to the Goonyella-Hay smaller vehicles and use four-cylinder vehicles Point line and the line that runs out to the instead of those with six or eight cylinders. other coal-mines up there. What we should Our objective must be to reduce the demand. be aiming at is reduction of demand. Shortly To achieve that, the first thing to do is to I will talk about other matters such as look at our rail transport system. alternative supplies. That is another aspect. Of prime importance for our present con­ We have been short of petrol recently sideration is the reduction of demand. because of problems at oil refineries and the alleged lack of oil tankers. However, with When I came into town this morning, the introduction of import parity pricing of there were traffic jams right ·through the centre Australian-produced crude oil, the Federal of the city. Cars are being driven with one Government is reaping in huge amounts of or two people in them and being parked in revenue from motorists throughout Australia. huge parking stations in the city. Then they This financial year it is estimated that that are driven home in the afternoon. It is revenue will be well over $2,000 million. absolutely ridiculous. However, one of the problems is that that Mr. Austin: It ought to cost $20 a day to money is going into Consolidated Revenue park. Supply [30 0crOBER 1979) (Estimates) 1487

Mr. VAUGHAN: Perhaps it might come successfully, on trial plots of land that had to that in the not too far distant future. been rehabilitated after the bauxite had been Another aspect is the lack of encourage­ mined. Experience has shown that two ment being given to the discovery of oil. seasons of good rainfall are required to I emphasise that the Federal Government ensure a good crop, and, in my opinion, is taking $2,000 million a year~but what the production of ethanol from cassava is do we see about drilling for oil? Not so not economically possible at present. ,Jong ago--in the "Sunday Mail" of 7 Of course, for many years the power­ October-Mr. Merv Vining, the Queensland alcohol plant at Sarina has been converting Motor Industry Association executive direc­ sugar-cane to ethanol. My inquiries reveal tor, referred to the cost of petrol and the that from 1928 to 1956 this State success­ effect it was having on industry. The head­ fully used a 15 per cent blend of ethanol line w~ and petrol. However, because of the ever­ "PetrOII price 'could be cut by one half'". increasing demand, that did very little to We all know that it could be, except for reduce the consumption of liquid fuels. The import parity pricing. The crime is that Government seems always to be trying to we are not doing anything about finding reach out and meet the demand instead of more oil-certainly not in comparison with trying to reduce it. what is happening in other countries. The Another aspect of the programme for the "Sunday Mail" reported- production of ethanol to which the Minister "Mr. Vining said the tota:l number of referred was that the development period wells driLled in Australia to last December would be 10 years. We cannot afford to was 2,825." wait 10 years. Mr. Booth: Who caused the cut,back in One of the matters that has been investig­ the searoh for oii? I could soon tell you ated is the area of land required to produce that. the quantity of cane needed if ethanol is to have a significant effect on the liquid Mr. VAUGHAN: I am talking about the fuel supply problem. For example, to pro­ people who are in power now; the people duce 2 000 OOC tonnes of ethanol, which who imposed import parity prices; the people who are getting in excess of $2,000 million. would be required to supply 10 per cent Last year it was over $1,000 million and of Australia's motor spirit requirements by this financial year it is over $2,000 miHion. 1985, all the arable land at present under That Government is doing nothing about sugar-cane would be required. We must drilling for oil. In QueensJand in 1975, make up our minds whether we are going four wells were drilled; in 1976, 17; in 1977, to produce sugar or ethanol. none were drhlled; in 1978, 20; and in his The big inhibiting factor is that a $2,000 Financial Statement the Treasurer said that million investment will be required, with a in 1979-80 it is expected that between 20 production cost estimated at about $25 a and 25 wells would be drilled. 11hat is just barrel, to produce an energy equivalent not good enough as the second Iimb of our similar to that of motor spirit. And the attempt to solve our liquid-fuel supply OPEC price is about $18 a barrel. problems. Mr. Gunn: It isn't very attractive, is it? In numerous Press releases, the Minister has mentioned the development of alterna­ Mr. VAUGHAN: It certainly is not at tive liquid fuel supplies from the production present. It may be a possibility in the of ethanol or power alcohol from sugar-cane future. I understand that Brazil is the and cassava. In a Press release on 24 July world leader in the field of ethanol pro­ this year he said- duction. "The State Government is considering Mr. Gunn: Its wage structure is very low. proposals put to it concerning the cost benefits of using alcohol from crops such Mr. VAUGHAN: I am not dealing with as sugar-cane and casSJava." that; I am dealing with the facts and figures I believe thll!t tlhe Government is on the in relation to production capacity. I do wrong tram. There has been a tremendous not think that the wage structure was taken amount of work done on the produc!Jion of into account in the figures that I was given. ethanol from sugar-cane and cassava. He They are based on the quantity of sugar-cane should not be talking about an inquiry, as or cassava that would be required and on he did in his Press release- the economics of production. "enquiry into using the aJ!cohol as an Mr. Gunn: You would have to pay wages, a:l terna:tive fuel source". though, wouldn't you? Ethanol is not an alternative to motor spirit, but it certainly can be used as an additive. Mr. VAUGHAN: Of course wages would However, so many problems associated with have to be paid. the production of ethanol remain to be One possibility that the Minister ignored overcome that the Government should not when he mentioned the Government's chang­ be giving priority to it. Ethanol can be ing to 4-cylinder vehicles is the use of LPG. produced from sugar-cane and cassava. When I am aware that recently there has been some I was in Weipa recently, I found that cassava rather adverse publicity in relation to the was being grown there experimentally, and use of LPG, but the fact is that Australia 1488 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

has ample supplies. It has been proved to The Minister flits overseas for a five-week be a very good alternative to liquid fuels, trip and on his return says that he has met and I should like to see the Government a rich industrialist. He could very well be move towards using it in Government selling oil to us at top prices~he could be vehicles. It is particularly suited to short­ chal'ging us $26 a barrel-and at the same range use, and I think that the Government time telling rhe Minister that he wants to should be looking primarily at its use in invest in Queensland. Perhaps he has even its efforts to solve the fuel supply problem. conned the Minister. The Government has been looking also Mr. Hansen interjected. at the possibility of converting coal to oil, and the annual report of the Department of M.r. VAUGHAN: If he does invest his Commercial and Industrial Development money here, he wiU get 10.5 per cent from referred to the various feasibility studies the Treasurer. that were being undertaken. The report Mr. Booth: Would you rather we see refers to the feasibility of deriving liquid Khemlani? fuels from coal and to the Imhausen study, which uses coal samples from the Wandoan Mr. VAUGHAN: I certainly wouldn't deposits. No mention is made, however, of send Wiley Fancher. Talk about a con man! the tests being conducted in Japan using My God! Millmerran coal. It was not so long ago that the Premier Significant problems arise with the con­ went to the Middle East and, on his return, version of coal to liquid fuel. The emphasis told us that the Arabs were rushing to that the Government places on the conver­ invest in Queensland. I cannot recall any sion is good for propaganda pUJJposes. How­ Arab coming to Queensland to invest his ever, the success of the scheme is still a money. On the Premier's return, the head­ long way off. It is governed, of course, by lines stated that he had "hooked" a rich economics. Another biUion dollars is Arab. In June ·last year, the then Deputy involved. In view of the tremendous invest­ Premier and Treasurer (Sir William Knox), ment that will be required to ensure the came back to Queensland and the headlines success of such a project, we must look for reported that the sum of $280,000,000 in wme other solution to the liquid fuel supply overseas money was "almost" in the bag. problems. He had "almost" got $280,000,000. He did a little better than the present Deputy In his speech, the Minister referred to his Premier and Treasurer. overseas visit. In "The Sunday Mail" of Another headline reports the Premier as 8 July the Minister was reported as referring saying that we would get "millions" in to an industrialist who was reaping huge overseas deals. He was reported as saying profits from an oilfield and was ready to that Queensland would get millions of dollars invest hundreds of millions of dollars in worth of development from overseas talks. Queensland. It is significant that every Those statements refer to his visit to Iran. time a Minister goes overseas he talks to As a result of all those overseas visits, what some rich fellow who is prepared to invest do we see? When the Treasurer comes back millions of dollars in this State. The from an overseas trip he usually says, "I Treasurer went overseas and on his return have not got what we wanted." On the last he told us that he had a great deal of occasion he made such an announcement money and that people were rushing to and added, "But we got $45,000,000." invest in Queensland. However, all the Ministers who go overseas seem to experience There has been much talk about small considerable difficulty in getting the money bus·inesses. Reference is made in the depart­ that we require. mental report to a small business education programme. In the light of the reply to a The particular aspect of the Minister's question recently asked of the Federal Min­ statement that concerned me was his ister for Business and Consumer Affairs, reference to this industrialist. The Minister that is certainly required. That Minister said- cited figures relating to bankruptcies, which "The industrialist I talked to is alreadv showed that in 1969-70, 615 bankruptcy in the oil business and he is personally notkes were issued in Queensland, and that reaping benefits from an oilfield in a in 1978-79, 1,954 notices were issued. One Third World country. That field produces of the big problems relating to business 146,000 barrels of oil daily and returns people going into bankruptcy is that they him $26 per barrel." 1eave a trail of broken promises and debts It has been alleged that our shortage of behind them. petrol is due, among other things, to the La~t Tuesday afternoon I was interested fact that we cannot obtain sufficient supplies to note the emphasis placed by the Govern­ on the world market but have to rely on ment on certain matters in the Essential :;pot purchases. I shudder to think that the Services Biil. industrialist to whom the Minister has (Time expired.) referred as one who is reaping huge profits from his oilfield-to the tune of $26 a barrel, Mr. GUNN (SOIIIlerset) (5.6 p.m.): It compared with the current OPEC price of gives me great pleasure to take part in this about Si8 a barrel-is the very person who debate. I suppose every member hopes to sells us oil at spot prices. attract a certain amount of industry to his Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1489 area. While I cannot say that I have problem occurs in Sydney and other major no industry, I think I can say that no centres. In fact, Governments are actually member receives as many letters as I do directing major industry away from city areas from tlhe Minister concerning the Wacol into country areas. It will be only a matter Industrial Estate. Almost weelcly I receive of time before that will happen in this State. a letter indicating that a new industry is No doubt many members have been to being established there. While I have not Tokyo where, because of pollution, it is a big number of eJectors there, thanks to actually a novelty to see the sun. I suggest the number of times the Minister sends to the Minister that it would be a great such letters to me I have a good knowledge advantage if he could direct smaller indus­ of what is happening at Wacol. Recently tries into country areas where they would the Minister informed me that Meggitt be less likely to pollute the atmosphere. Ltd. (the linseed oil people) had invested It is the ambition of almost every local about $1,500,000 in that estate. I am not authority to bring some industry into its wornied about that area, but about the area. There is a need for people to under­ country areas of my electorate that are stand that there is room in country areas seeking Hght industry. for both industry and primary production, Mainly light industries and secondary although we should be selective in the indus­ industries have been established in Queens­ tries we direct to country areas. For instance, land. Only a couple of weeks ago "Tl:e there is a ridiculous situation in the Lockyer National Times" praised development m Valley at present with semi-trailers choking Queensland. If we can get praise in the up the highways and travelling great distances southern Press, it must be very well deserved. to bring vegetables down to Brisbane for pro­ The article pointed out that, without doubt, cessing. Thousands of tonnes of beetroot, Queens~and and Western Australia would carrots and other vegetables leave my area be the industrial giants of the future. every day to be brought to Brisbane and WhHe the A.L.P. was in Government it processed. The silly part of it is that they are made no effort whatsoever to encourage later sent back. I suggest that a cannery industry to Queens,land. Queensland was should be built in my area. I would suggest regal'ded only as a primary industr.y State. Lowood in the Brisbane Valley as an excel­ At that time we exported nothmg but lent site with any amount of water. A primary products. Most of our eX'ports number of other towns in the area would also went to Great Britain, and we got very fill the bill. We are told that there is a need little for them. Although we deeply to conserve energy, yet semi-trailers loaded regretted Great Britain's entry into the with produce from the Lockyer and Fassi­ Common Market, that move turned out to fern areas daily travel at least 100 km to be to our advantage. No doubt the hon­ Brisbane. They must use thousands of gal­ ourable member for Warwick will recall lons of fuel in the process. The establishment that we virtually gave our butter to Gr~at of canneries in my area would serve a dual Britain and we kept that country gomg purpose. It would encourage people to live throug'h the war. Today .we are not self­ in a country area where the Government sufficient in butter productiOn, but we have has provided excellent schools, sporting fac­ wonderful export markets for our beef out­ ilities and hospitals. Rather than stay in side the Common Market countries that the city at night, I would prefer to go home do not deal with us. We seem to have to Laidley where we have everything. paddled our canoe very nicely, and it irks me to hear Opposit~ion members run down Mr. K. J. Hooper: Why don't you get a Japan, which is one of our best export helicopter? markets. Mr. GUNN: I could do that, but I can I do not suggest that the Minister . has get home in an hour now, so I don't really neglected this area, but wherever .poss1bl~, need one. industrial estates should be estabhshed m country areas. I. should hke to see t~em Mr. Lee: He only wants a lift. established at La1dley, Lowood, Esk, 1oo­ croolawah and Nanango. I am sure that Mr. GUNN: I don't think a helicopter the Minister has these places in mind. Only could stand that strain. recent,Jy I sent a deputation from Esk to The Government has provided these fac­ the Minister. Its members were ~ery happy ilities to aid decentralisation, and it has with the hearing they got from h1m. achieved its aim. We can be justly proud I also suggest that it may be a good idea of our efforts in this sphere. As I said, we to attract some of our smaller industries have provided schooling and hospitals. into country areas reasonably close to the Although it does not have a great deal to metropolitan area and the seaboard. Industry do with this Minister's Estimates, today our seems to want to get close to the sea)Joar~. children go on to tertiary education, and I do not know why that is necessary m th1s take their place anywhere. The availability day and age, but that seems to be the inclin~­ of such facilities wiiJ encourage industry to tion. What worries me is that after a certam go into country areas. time city dwellers will be complaining about The Tarong Power House is a classic pollution from industry. I re.ad in the _news­ example of the success of the Government's paper just recently that Bnsbane. res1dents policy. The population of that area has were complaining about air pollutwn. That been dropping, and the construction of the 1490 Supp.y [30 OcroBER 19791 (Estimates)

powerhouse will do a great deal to encourage fuel stored. There is no doubt that every the establishment of industry, and that will agricultural journal that I picked up in the create further employment. There are already past advised people to build more storage; indications that industry wishes to establish to get bigger tanks and to store more fuel. itself in that region. I am daily approached I have mentioned the small businesses in by people who want to get jobs in the power­ my area. There is one small business there house or the coal industry. Obviously they that does nothing but manufacture large are prepared to work in country areas. steel tanks with ladders on their sides and I now want to refer to industries that capacities up to 10,000 gallons. This manu­ have already been established. I refer par­ facturer could not keep up with the orders. ticularly to the Kilcoy meatworks, which has I would say that today there are virtually been established for a number of years. I do thousands and thousands of gallons of fuel not have to tell the Minister, who is a suc­ stored on properties and not being used. cessful cattleman, that we should avoid mov­ That is not the fault of the Government. We ,ing stock long distances. Because of ,the have been talking about alternative fuels. I bruising that takes place when stock are think that there was plenty of fuel. People moved long distances, millions of dollars were encouraged to store fuel; they did so, are lost each year. The Kilcoy meatworks and one could not blame them. has an excellent local market for its stock Mr. Goleby: It was in the hands of a few. and also an export market for its product. It does not suffer the losses that other meat­ Mr. GUNN: Yes. A tank with a capacity of works experience. One notices the quality 10,000 gallons is a very big tank, and there of meat from cattle that come off the pasture, are many of them around. Of course, they are spelled and cooled down, and then killed are owned by big operators. humanely. The meat is never tough. It is Mr. Goleby: It is not much consolation good and it commands an excellent market. if you cannot get any yourself. It is not knocked around in any way at all. Mr. GUNN: That is right, but I think Mr. Lee: Killed humanely? that the honourable member for Redlands Mr. GUNN: The cattle really are killed must admit that people were encouraged to humanely. store fuel, and most people did so. Even the small operators stored fuel. I suppose that Mr. Lee: I know what you mean. we were all guilty of that. My tanks were Mr. GUNN: I do not think that the Min­ full, and I make no apology for saying that. ister is a vegetarian. The other day I saw If any honourable members say that their him eating the biggest steak that I have ever tanks were not full, I think that they might seen in my life. be fibbing. The expansion of small businesses in Employment has also been mentioned, and country areas is to be commended. Many I suppose that that has a lot to do with of the small businesses in my electorate industry. I was interested to hear the hon­ ?perate only in a small way, possibly employ­ ourable member for Lytton speak about the mg only three or four men. But it is inter­ timber industry. That is one activity that esting to see what they have done, and this lends itself to development. As the honour­ Government has encouraged them to do it. able member for Maryborough would well I am talking about the manufacture of leather know, we have a softwoods agreement; I goods and metal goods, such as fencing mater­ have mentioned it time and time again in ials, steps, tanks and parts of farm mach­ this Chamber. The timber subsidy has grad­ inery. A young chap starts up a business ually been reduced. I am not saying that for after being encouraged by this Government. this situation one Government is guilty and He soon establishes a name and reputation another is not; they are all guilty in this for himself. He employs three or four people. matter. I would hope that when the Minister pur­ When I entered this Parliament, Mr. chases goods for State Stores he looks at MdMahon, the then leader of the Common­ these small manufacturing businesses. I do not we

5250,000,000 worth of timber and timber a very small part of the Queensland Gov­ products each year. Of course, we must ernment Directory, covers a large range of assist some foreign countries and we have items. Probably the most important-it is to have certain reciprocal trade agreements the most obvious one to State members­ with countries such as New Zealand arul is the Department of Commercial and Indus­ Indonesia. We imJX)rt a lot of timber from trial Development. He also has respon­ both of t!hose courutries, who are great custo­ sibility for the State Stores Board. Both mers of ours. However, there is a need for of those divisions support private enterprise. expansion in the timber industry. It is an The Minister is responsible for the Govern­ area that the Government should look at. ment Motor Garage, the State Migration In country regions there is quite a large Office, which deals with migration as it scope for the manufacture of farm mach­ affects this State, and the Government Print­ inery. Most of it could be manufactured ing Office. in its local area of use. In this regard, The Department of Commercial and Indus­ I instance a firm that I admire-Napier trial Development supports the community Bros. of Dalby. Napier Bros. are not in of Queensland in an excellent way. It does my electorate but I have used their machin­ a tremendous job developing industries in ery. In fact, on most occasions I have a the metropolitan area of Brisbane and preference for their machinery. Of course, throughout the rest of the State in a totally Napier Bros. did get into a lot of financial decentralised way. The list of Crown indus­ trouble at one time but they pulled them­ trial estates covers a very large range of selves out of it by their bootlaces. They are now alive and well, and their machinery centres. It covers the smaller towns--they has established a reputation around the are officially called cities-such as Dalby. country. A friend of mine who was recently Although that is an important centre in in Scotland was there told that a lot of itself, it is not very large and I am sure machinery from Napier Bros. was being that in other States would not attract Gov­ sold in the United Kingdom. It is marveUous ernment support, as it does here. Places such as Gympie also receive tremendous that a little firm in Da~lby oan manufacture machinery that will sell on the British support. rnal'ket. Although the Narangba Industrial Estate That sort of achievement could be dupli­ is not in my electorate, it has significant effect cated in a lot of other areas. I look at on the electorate and on the population the electorate of the Honourable the in the Caboolture, Redcliffe and Pine Rivers Speaker. The Richter family have established areas. The problem with it is that it is in themselves in manufacturing there. Just some ways perhaps a little ahead of its re,cently they manufactured at Boonah a time. I would like to see the department tractor part that has created quite a deal concentrate more on a place such as the of interest. It will not only be sold in Aus­ Strathpine industrial area, which is already tralia but will also be exported. zoned. I will go into more detail on that We must have quite a deal of confidence shortly. in our industries, particularly those estab­ The tradition of support for private enter­ lished in country areas. They have estab­ prise from the department-supporting small, lished themselves and they have a good pioneer industries and even very large indus­ reputation. Any local industry that can com­ pete against overseas industries on the world tries-started under the Honourable Fred export market has done pretty welt Such indus­ Campbell. It has continued very capably tries have achieved that success through the under the present Minister. I congratulate encouragement they receive from the depart­ both Ministers and the Government on the ment under the control of the Minister. work that has been done. We in Queensland do not have to apolo­ The various development bureaus through­ gise to anybody in any other State. Queens­ out Queensland come under the general land may at one stage have been a primary auspices of the Department of Industrial producing State, but I can assure honour­ Development. Possibly with the exception able members that we are not now Cinder­ only of my own area, they are doing a ellas in secondary industry, although primary tremendous job in the development of indus­ production will always be very important to tries in their areas of responsibility. They the State. give support to local people and provide I have great pleasure in supporting the connection with the Department of Com­ Estimates of the Minister. On beha1f of the mercial and Industrial Development. Some­ people of the electorate of Somerset, I thank one is on the site, usually to some extent in the Minister for the interest he has shown relation to the Crown industrial estates, to in country areas. We will watch w1th great give real support to people in their estab­ interest the establishment of further industry lishment period. When it was functioning, in country areas. the Murrumba Regional Development Bureau provided much support to people in my area. Mr. AKERS (Pine Rivers) (5.25 p.m.): I, A few small businessmen in the Strathpine too, rise to support the Minister on the and Narangba areas received real support adoption of his Estimates for the year from that bureau when it was under the 1979-80. His portfolio, although it takes control of Mr. Tom Baty. Mr. Baty had a 1492 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) vast amount of expertise. I was greatly dis­ should increase to about 5,000 or 6,000 by appointed when the bureau collapsed. He 1985. So where there are now 40,000 people, had had experience in other countries, as it is expected that in less than six years the well as throughout Queensland. The col­ population will increase by about 20,000 to lapse of that bureau was a great loss. It about 60,000 in the catchment area of the collapsed because it did not get support from industrial estate to which I am referring. local business people. It got too little sup­ It wi11 be an increase not much smaller than port, or none at all, from the Caboolture, the population of towns such as Mary­ Pine Rivers and Redcliffe local authorities. borough and almost twice that of Gympie. It may not be re-established for a while, That shows the potential of the area in the but I hope that before too long something next five years, and the estate must be pro­ similar to a development bureau will start in moted as strongly as possible. the area. Figures that I obtained from the Pine That bureau to some extent concentrated Rivers Shire Council show that in the five on the Narangba Industrial Estate and not, years to 1977 the existing manufacturing base as I said before in relation to the Depart­ in the Pine Rivers area has grown by 611 ment of Industrial Development, on encour­ employment places. Tihat is a phenomenal aging development in the Strathpine indus­ growth in any area. The percentage increase trial area, which is privately owned. Much in jobs over the State in that period was of it is still farmland. A lot of it has 1.6 per cent, whereas in the Pine Rivers been developed by people such as W. H. Shire it was 36 per cent. Again, those are very significant figures and show the enor­ Bowden Pty. Ltd., Compac Sackville and mous potential of the Strathpine area for the Stanton family. They are developing development and for investment in industries. the area. At present, about 150 ha of land is zoned for clay-extractive industries, and The ratio of manufacturing jobs to popula­ about 60 ha is under application for clay tion is much higher in the Pine Rivers extraction. About 20 ha has either been Shire than in any of the other shires con­ approved or is under application for sand tiguous to Brisbane. Similanly, the existing and gravel extraction. Therefore, to some manufacturing base is much higher in the extent raw materials are available there. Pine Rivers Shire than in any of the other In addition, 400 ha-about 1,000 acres-is shires. Perhaps all the money is being already zoned for heavy industry, about 60 ha spent on freeways and the etlectrifioation of of which is now in industrial and commercial railways to the South, but the population use. and the industries are going to the North. On previous occasions I have said in this Unlimited space and unlimited infrastruc­ Chamber that it is time the Government ture are available in the Strathpine Indus­ took notice of what the people want it to trial Estate. In my opinion, it has a great do instead of telling them what they should deal going for it, but it needs some real do. It should start looking after the areas encouragement from the Department of where people want to go. The Strathpine/ Commercial and Industrial DeveLopment. A~bany Creek/Bald Hills area is certainly People such as Mr. Bowden have been pro­ a very pleasant place to live. People in moting the area very we11, but general sup­ big numbers want to go there. port is needed with the much wider range of irrfol'mation that the department can pro­ At present, the Strathpine area contains vide. a number of substantiaJ firms. For example, Namco Industries employs 390 workers; At present, about 40 subdivided allotments, Cable Makers Australia Pty. Ltd., 120; Reed varying in size from half an acre to an Corrugated Containers, 120; and P G H acre, are available on the site, and about Ceramics, approximately 200 at its brick­ 100 more allotments have already been works. I remind the Committee that 210 ha approved. Of those, 30 are in the Bowden of clay-extraction land is available in the subdivision and about 108 in the Compac area, so that P G H will be there for a long Sackville estate. In addition to the infra­ time to come. As weH, there are Simmons structure, services such as water, sewerage Bedding Co. Pty. Ltd., Austraphone, Vita­ and adequate st'orm-water drainage are avai,l­ 'foam Australia Pty. Ltd. and Bushland able on land to which there is good rail and Detergents. M! those firms are functioning road access. very happily in the area. As well, there The Strathpine Industrial Estate is in the are literally dozens of smaH factories and centre of a rapidly-growing area of popula­ service units. People produce electronic tion, so people are available to provide the printed boards, eX'haust mufflers and so on. work-force that is needed. There are now The potential for further growth and invest­ 18,000 people in the Strathpine/Lawnton ment is enormous. I urge anyone who is area, and by 1985-less than six years away interested in industriaJ development to look -there are expected to be 26,000. In the at that area, and I urge the Minister to get Albany Creek a.rea, there are 6,000 people his department to aclmowledge the potential at present, and there are expected to be offered by the Strathpine area. about 8,000 by 1985. In the Petrie/KaHangur One of the people whom I have criticised area, there are now 13,000 people, and the quite often in this Chamber is BiH Bowden. population is expected to increase to about He has, however, helped many smaH business­ 19,000 by 1985. About 3,000 people now men get going by buading three very large live in the Bald Hills area, and that number tin sheds and dividing them up into sections Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1493 for small indust~ies. Many have got going Mr. Hansen: There are about 30 Land in a substantial way. The potential exists Rovers. in the area. I hope that honourable mem­ bers, the Minister and his staff take notice Mr. AKERS: And they are taken home of these comments. I hope that Strathpine at night. There are only about three or w~ll soon see some backing other than from four of them there at night-time. In the private enterprise. past few weeks we have had the opportunity of seeing that place late at night, and we The Minister is also responsible for the know how many vehicles are there. Government Printing Office. I never cease to be amazed at the fact that, even though With that small criticism I have tre­ ParHament sits till 1, 2 or 3 o'clock in the mendous pleasure in supporting the Minis­ morning, by early the next day the first ter's Estimates, and I encourage him to "Hansard" puLls are avruhlabJe to us for keep on with the good work he is doing. checking. I have great admiration for Mr. Hampson-- Mr. MILLINER (Everton) (5.42 p.m.): In rising to speak to these Estimates I wish Mr. K. J. Hooper: What about the workers to refer to some of the comments made by who prepare it? the honourable member for Cooroora this afternoon. He followed the honourable mem­ Mr. AKERS: I was about to say "and ber for Lytton, who again brought to our his staff". Under our system, he is the attention the problems confronting our symbol of the Government Printing Office society caused by technological change and and the one who gets the job done. I have automation. The views expressed by the great admiration for the work done by the honourable member for Cooroora epitomise Government Printing Office. How anyone the thinking of Government members. He can decipher a bumbled and muffled speech told us that society has been affected by such as I am making now, put it through the automation and changes in machinery, and system and have it back to members next virtually said that all the troubles will go morning, reading as well as it does, I do away and everything will be hunky-dory in not know. the long run. I assure the honourable mem­ Mr. Hampson's name will appear on many ber for Cooroora that things will not be more printed items. Neady every document hunky-dory in the long run. published by the Government has his name I have previously referred in this Chamber on it, so it will go down in the history to the problems caused by technological of this State as that of a man who played change, particularly in the printing industry a significant role. with which I was associated. The white­ I turn now to an item that worries me a collar industry is another industry that will great deal. As little as I liked the Bellevue be severely affected by technological change. building being demolished, the large area Even in my electorate I have seen the of land on which it stood is now fully start of the inroads of automation. Outside fenced-! do not know the cost of the fence, Myers at the Brookside Shopping Centre but it must have amounted to a few an automatic telling machine is located. I thousand dollars-and used as a car-park. do not know if honourable members have Unfortunately, it is used as a cu. oark only observed one of these machines working, during the day. If we leave tllis place but it is frightening to consider the number at night we might see three or four Govern­ of jobs that could be lost in the banking ment vehicles parked there, but at 9 or industry through this form of automation. 10 o'clock in the morning 50 or 60 cars are there. Something is wrong with our Not long ago many girls were employed system when we provide an expensive car­ in typing pools in organisations such as parking site, fully fenced, for car-parking banks and insurance companies, but since only during the day. I urge the Minister, the introduction of word processers and the as the Minister in charge of the Government like the work formerly done by 30 or 40 Garage, to find out why so many cars are typists is now done by two or three girls. there during the day, obviously not being Job opportunities for young women leaving used, and why there are none there at school who hope to embark on careers as night. Obviously they are taken home and typists will be very limited. parked in front yards or out on footpaths When I was perusing the departmental at night. Estimates the first thing I noted was the decrease from 297 to 294 in the number of Mr. K. J. Hooper: You are a dobber; employees. Admittedly one employee has you are a snitch. been lost from the immigration section. The decline in employment is particularly disap­ Mr. AKERS: Does the honourable mem­ pointing. Yet the Premier and the Deputy ber think that money should be wasted in Premier thump their chest and say in this that way? He will not even answer. Chamber what a marvellous job they are As so much money has been spent on doing to encourage industry to come to this that site, and because these expensive cars State. The department does an extremely are available, I expect them to be used important job in promoting Queensland as efficiently. I do not expect such an enormous a place where people should come and set up area to be wasted in that way. industry. As it does such an important job, 1494 Supply [30 OcrOBER 1979] (Estimates) one would expect to see an increase in the Printing Office. While we sit these ridicu­ number it employs, but unfortunately that lously long hours the employees of the Gov­ is not the case. Instead there is a drop in ernment Printing Office are on duty, and they the number it employs. Admittedly it was remain on duty until such time as the "Han­ only a small drop, but it was still a drop. sard" pulls are available for us the next In a couple of months thousands of young morning. men and women will be leaving high school Mr. Lee: You would have to agree that and looking for a job. It is disappointing that they do a remarkable job. in this time of high unemployment the Government is not taking on more employees. Mr. MILLINER: I agree that they do a The Government service is virtually stag­ tremendous job. I know a lot of them per­ nating. sonally. In fact, a number of them are very Mr. Davis: Did you see that the Minister good friends of mine. I have built up a is not taking one bit of notice? friendship with them through my association with the printing industry. They are very Mr. MILLINER: I did. He should hang dedicated and loyal employees of the Crown. his head in shame about the unemployment Mr. Davis: What do they say about the problem. Minister? An amount of $17,700,000-odd has been appropriated this year for the department. Mr. MILLINER: I would not like to go This represents an increase of approximately into that. $2,000,000, but if we take into account the Mr. Austin: Your mates print dollar bills inflation rate of 10 per cent, thanks to the economic policies of the Fraser Government, for you. we realise that that increase is less than Mr. MILLINER: I wish they did, but you $500,000 in real terms. As I have said, this never know your luck in a big city! As very important department is charged with I said, they do a tremendous job, and they the responsibility of developing the industrial are to be congratulated on it. potential of the State, so it is doubly unfor­ tunate that there is only this paltry increase Mr. Davis: They all say Austin is a fraud. in the amount allocated to it. Mr. MILLINER: Yes, they do. Another of the Minister's responsibilities is the Government Printing Office. I believe Another area of the Minister's responsi­ tha:t it has been overlooked by the Govern­ bility is the Government motor pool. My ment ever since it came to power in 1957. predecessor in this place at one time was The Government Printing Office has been very critical of public servants taking Govern­ operating in a building that is totally inade­ ment vehicles home at night. I think that quate for the needs of a modern printing this should be encouraged more than dis­ establishment. Over the past 20-odd years couraged, particularly at this time of a so­ most printers have moved out into industrial c.alled energy crisis. Unfortunately, many estates where they could erect buildings suit­ times I have seen State Government vehicles able for a modern printing business and have being driven with only one person in them. room to expand. I have inspected the Gov­ Mr. Austin: They are not allowed to take ernment Printing Office on a number of occa­ any more, and that is wrong. sions, and it has always amazed me that the building has not been condemned. On one Mr. MILLINER: I agree with the hon­ occasion I toured the office with the Minister, ourable member for Wavell that it is wrong. and I can recall his commenting on the con­ I believe that when a Government employee dition of the floor, particularly in the com­ has the privilege of taking home a Gov­ posing room on the third floor where tonnes ernment vehicle, he should at least try to and tonnes of lead are stored. That has arrange a pool of employees who live in his caused a tremendous bow in the floor. It vicinity. He should pick them up in the amazes me that it has not collapsed before morning and take them home at night. This this. As I said, the building is obviously would have a tremendous effect on the totally inadequate, and it should have been traffic flow in Brisbane, because many Gov­ condemned years ago. ernment employees drive private vehicles When I first started lin the printing to and from work. industry in 1963, I attended the technical Mr. Davis: The Minister has stated that college at the bottom of George Street. At he would like to see more four-cylinder cars. that time there were rumours that the Gov­ ernment Printing Office was to be moved to Mr. MILLINER: I am coming to that. South Brisbane. That was about 17 years Employees who take home Government ago. It was disappointing to read in the vehicles should be encouraged to establish Treasurer's Financial Statement that no a pool so that they pick up people in the money had been allocated to commence work morning and take them home at night. on the new Government Printing Office at The Minister has said that the Government South Brisbane. is experimenting with four-cylinder cars. Like the honourable member for Pine Again, with this so-called energy crisis, I Rivers, I would like to pay tribute to the men hope that the experiment with four-cylinder and women who work in the Government cars is successful. I can well remember that Supply (30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1495

in answer to a question in this Chamber the has the choice of either going into it or stay­ Minister said that one of the things that he ing where he is and suffering financially, and was evaluating with the four-cylinder car eventually going broke. was its resale value. I do not know whether he has been out shopping for a four-cylinder One of the disturbing features of major car recently, but I can assure him that their shopping complexes is the way in which the resale value is holding up. developer determines the rent to be paid by the occupiers of the shops. The rent paid One other matter that has been mentioned by the smaU retailer is calculated either on today is the plight of small business. Fol­ the floor space he occupies or the gross lowing my illustrious career in the printing turnover per month, whichever is the industry, I moved into another area and greater. That is a disastrous situation for became a small businessman. I owned a the ~:~maller operators in a major shopping newsagency, and a very prosperous one. centre. Because of it, they cannot get ahead. Mr. Davis: Only people like you and I If the small operator has a good month, the can talk about this. proprietor of the shopping complex looks at his books and increases the rent accordingly. Mr. MILLINER: That is right. I think There are rumours that some of these that you and I would be considered experts smaller operators, in an effort to get over in the small-business area because of the this problem, are keeping two sets of taxis you had and the efficient way in which accounts, one for the Taxation Department you ran them, and the service station that and the other for the operator of the shop­ you had and the efficient way in which you ping centre. That should not have to happen. ran it and gave service to the public. 11he rents paid by people should be calcu­ ,lated on a fixed basis. If somebody has a The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. good month, he should be the one who Miller): Order! Can I be involved in the benefits from it. discussion? The development of such a great number Mr. MIL~INER: Yes, Mr. Miller. Through of shopping centres is causing quite a deal you, Mr. Miller, I say that small business is of concern. These centres are mushrooming one area that definitely needs to be looked all over the city, to the detriment of other at by the Government. I refer particularly businesses. In my electorate of Everton, a to the retailing industry. At the moment K mart was established 12 months ago. A re!ailing is having a pretty tough time, and number of retailers who went into that com­ this can be attributed to a number of factors. plex originally, have now gone broke. How­ I think the first and obvious one is the dis­ ever, I am informed that the retailers now astrous economic policies of the Fraser Gov­ in that establishment are paying their way. ernment. But, there again, both small and Unfortunately, that has been to the detri­ big businesses are suffering at the hands of ment of other smaJl retailers in the area. Mr. Fraser. One other factor that has attri­ Three or four shops, including one fairly buted to the demise of the small businessman large supermarket in the Cut Price Store particularly in the strip-shopping centres, i~ chain, in the strip shopping area over the late-night shopping. I still have a number of road f.rom the complex have had to close. friends involved in small businesses in the If this proliferation of shopping centres con­ retailing industry, and they tell me that tinues, I fear we wrll eventually see the sin~e the. introduction of late-night shopping: development of a monopoly in the retailing their takmgs on Fridays and Saturdays have industry. dropped dramatically. Quite obviously, in the The last point I wish to raise is this Keperra area where I was involved in busi­ Government's policy on price control. Last ness, the population has not increased dram­ week we saw an instance of price control atically, yet shops are allowed to remain by this famous so-called free-enterprise Gov­ open longer. No doubt late-night shopping ernment. That was price control in the has been a boon to the major shopping bread industry. Unfortunately, the Govern­ centres, but it has been to the detriment of ment has tackled this problem from the the small operator, and this is something that wrong end. Surely if the Government is the Government should seriously look at. serious !!Jbout price control, it should look at the maximum price of a commodity, no1 Mr. Davis: The Temporary Chairman would the minimum price. If a storekeeper chooses agree with you. to sell a commodity at a che8!per rate l'han Mr. MILLINER: Yes, he would. his competitors, or if a wholesaJer is pre­ pared to supply a certain amount of bread One of the other problems that I wish to to a retailer at a cheaper rate, surely tha1 refer to concerns the proliferation of major is their prerogative when operating in the shopping centres. In the past couple of free-ente!1'rise system. The Government months we have had raised in this Chamber should not step in to protect a few of its the controversy surrounding the Bexley Cor­ mates in a few smaH country bakeries. poration, and it is not my intention to go into that matter at this time. The problems Mr. Davis: Not one Liberal member facing small business people who are forced made any sort of a noise about that at all. to go into this type of shopping centre are tremendous. When a major shopping centre Mr. MILLINER: I noticed that when the is established in an area, a small retailer legislation was introduced. 1496 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (,Estimates)

Mr. Davis: They should all hide their The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. heads in shame. Row): Order! The honoumble member will address the Chair. Mr. MILLINER: I agree with the mem­ ber for Brisbane Central; they should all Mr. GOLEBY: I wiU, Mr. Row. hide their heads in shame. The members on the other side of the Chamber espouse free­ Queensland is the most decentralised State enterprise Government, but when the crunch in the Commonwealth. As we look at our comes they back the Premier to the hilt. majo'r towns along the coast from here to They did that when the minimum price of Cairns and inland to the north-western city bread was established. of Mt. Isa, we can be justly proud of the Mr. Blake: They are only interested in industrial development that has taken place dough. in our State. As the most decentralised State, Queensland must also claim to have the Mr. MILLINER: That is correct; they are most decentralised industrial development. intereste-d only in dough. A'lmost all towns and cities in the State In this morning's Press there is a report have Government-planned industrial estates. of another instance of the Government's Those that do not already have them are price control. The Gove'!"nment has set mini­ in the throes of planning and developing mum and maximum prices for milk. There them. is already a monopoly in the milk industry. Industry is most important to all of our The Minister for Local Government and towns, both to provide employment and to Main Roads knows a fair bit about the milk industrv in this State-he has a fairly give financial stabiHty, particularly in small la!'ge quota.- country towns. Light industries employ more people than many of the larger companies Mr. Davis: Mr. Booth has one, too! involved in heavy industry. I have always Mr. MILLINER: Yes, the honourable said, and I know it to be correct, that on member for "\Varwick probably would have the whole small industries employ much more a fairly large quota. labour than the large, automated industries. Government financial assistance has been The distribution of milk throughout the Brisbane metropolitan area is a monopoly given quite freely for the establishment of controlled by Queensland United Foods. many smaH industries in country towns. Some years ago a dairy farmer in Nudgee As the member for Somerset said earlier, Road t,ried to, if I may so put it, crash the town of Dalby is a classic example. Many into the Brisbane milk market, but he was of the large industrial establi;,hments there stopped. The Government ~hould ~oo!c now started off as small entemrises manu­ seriously at ics price control pol:cy.. If 1t. 1s facturing machinery. One in ·p'lrticular is going to be fair dinkum and bnng m pnct: Napier Brothers. I am sure that every pri­ control, let us have it at the other end. mary producer in this State has used equip­ [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] ment made at Dalby by Napier Brothers. If it dues not carry the Napier name-tag, Mr. GOLEBY (Redlands) (7.15 p.m.): In it carries the blue line indicating that it is this debate on the Estimates presented by distributed by Ford and has been made the Minister for Industry and Administra­ under franchise by Napier Brothers at tive Services e\ crv member appreciates what Dalby. A former member of the Parliament, an importa~t portfolio this is and realises Mr. Diplock, was a director of that firm, and the important part it plays in the industrial much credit for the firm's success goes to development of his area. The Minister and him. He was one of the directors who his ministeri&l predecessors have created puHed the firm through its times of stress something of tremendous value, particularly in the 1960s. to manv of our small towns. The Minister himself~ is a classic example of a moving When \Ve think of industry and the amount force in industrial development. In his of employment it creates-and the import­ business enterprise before he entered the ance of that employment to country towns­ Parliament, he was one of the State's major we are mindful of the 35-hour week that industrialists. we heard promoted in this Chamber only a week ago. I am sure that members oppos­ Mr. Davis: He inherited the business. ite who were so strongly in favour of a Mr. GOLEBY: Whether he inherited it or 35-hour week have little knowledge of just nnt, he was quite a competent operator. what effect it would have on the industrial That is something that cannot be said of life of this State, particularly the success the member for Brisbane Central. You've of many of the small industries in our done nothing but run a taxi service and, country towns. That is important, and one as has been said, you employed Aborigines hears the Opposition talking about it time and paid them half wages. and time again. But if we want to stop the drift from the country to the city, we have Mr. Lee: He didn't pay them. to make sure that small industrialists in bus,iness in country towns remain viable and Mr. GOLEBY: That's right. He didn't pay able to maintain in employment those on them. their pay-roll. Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1497

In discussing industrial relations and indus­ Mr. Houston: Well, why do you condemn trial development, one hears a great deal workers out of hand? about worker participation in industry. It is quite good to have worker participation Mr. GOLEBY: I did not condemn workers. provided the workers concerned give of their best. However, I have yet to hear any Mr. Houston: Of course you did. honourable member opposite, particularly the honourable member for Brisbane Central, Mr. GOLEBY: I did not. One has to take speak about anything other than workers the good with the bad. As the honourable sharing in the profits; I have never heard member for Bulimba well knows, if an him say anything about workers sharing in industry is profitable, one can give the the losses of industry. It is a one-sided workers a better deal; but if they do not ticket as far as he is concerned. work, there is no profit. I have never heard the honourable member talk about workers Mr. Frawley: He never gave the worker sharing in the losses of industry. In that who drove his taxi a share of the profits. respect, he is like the member for Brisbane Central. Mr. GOLEBY: No, certainly not. Mr. Houston: As a matter of fact, when I represent one of the fastest-growing there are losses, they are usually due to electorates in this State, an electorate in bad management. which there are many small industries. One of the larger industries is the home-building Mr. GOLEBY: It is usually due to union­ industry, and it is interesting to note that ists going on strike. The honourable member last year 1,228 new homes were completed for Bulimba does not know very much about in the Redlands electorate. the work scene. My electorate is confined entirely within Mr. Houston: Why do you think the the boundaries of the Redland Shire, and it Minister came into Parliament? is certainly not one of the larger electorates in Queensland. However, it is one of the Mr. GOLEBY: When the Minister came most closely settled outside the Brisbane into Parliament, he was a very successful metropolitan area, and a great deal of plan­ businessman. He still is. ning is taking place there now. I give Opposition Members interjected. full credit to the Minister and his officers, and also to officers of the Lands Department and officers of the Redland Shire Council, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. for endeavouring to have an industrial estate Row): Order! The Committee will come to developed in the centre of the electorate order. where the population is greatest. It is next to an electricity substation, close to Mr. GOLEBY: In speaking of the Minis­ a sewerage line and on a water line; in fact, ter's department, I am reminded that the everything is there, ready for development to Minister is in charge of fuel distribution take place. The Minister has been there on throughout the State. Recently, every more than one occasion, and I compliment Queenslander has been very concerned about him on the \Vork he has done. the fuel industry and the distribution and availability of fuel throughout this vast An honourable member opposite referred State. There have been shortages of Avgas rather lightly to the Press releases issued in parts of Queensland. It has been of by the Minister each week, but I am sure concern not only to owners of light aircraft that no honourable member, no matter what who use them to commute from town to his political beliefs, would deny that the town but also to graziers using helicopters Minister has been very active in creating new for mustering. In a number of instances, industrial estates in Queensland. I should it has thrown the cattle industry into chaos. like to mention particularly the one at If a grazier has been using a helicopter Gympie, which is one of the finest any­ for mustering, he will not have manpower where. Both large and small industries have readily available to enable him to go back been attracted to it. Smith's bodyworks, to mustering by horse, and it is not always a small industry when it began, is now possible to obtain experienced labour at one of the largest established on any indus­ short notice. It is easy to realise the incon­ trial estate in Queensland. It competes venience that can be caused to people successfully against both Brisbane and inter­ engaged in that primary industry. state motor-body builders, and it has been As to the fuel shortage-every Queens­ successful in obtaining the franchises for the Jander must ask himself at some time or body-building requirements of quite a number another whether it is necessary to fit emiss,ion of truck companies. control devices to motor vehicles. I suppose that most honourable members would own Mr. Houston: Thev must have some good a motor vehicle that it fitted with such a workers working for" them. device and would realise what a difference it makes to fuel consumption. Over the past Mr. GOLEBY: Of course they have, and 12 months the cost of fuel has doubled. If 1 am the firsi to recognise it. that cost is added to the cost of the extra 1498 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) fuel required for motor vehicles because of A Government Member: It's harder to emission control devkes, the resultant over­ put the too1Jhpaste back into the tube than all cost to the State is very hi&h. It would to get it out. amount to many millions of do11ars. I hope that those charged with tJhe responsibility Mr. GOLEBY: We should try to tell of administering this aspect of government that to the member for Brisbane CentraL will look closely at the possibility of rcmov­ Fortunately, the Fraser Government is [ng emission control devices from vehicles. giving every incentive t<;~ the. oil ind.ustry, Except for a few areas in the oity of particularly the exploratiOn s1de of 1t, to Brisbane, Queensland does not suffer from get back on its feet. pollution caused by motor vehicles. Yet The Whitlam Government removed the every motor vehicle sold in this State must tax incentives from the oil industry. Any­ be fitted with an emission control device. one who invests in the oil industry is risking That rule applies even in isolated country his capital. No-one other than someone with areas. At a time when we are faced with money to spare can afford to take the risk. a fuel cnsts, we are bowing to the Certainly the ordinary man in the street environmentaJists. cannot afford to do so. It is a chancy I do not believe that the nation or the business, and I say "good luck" to anyone motorist can afford the costs incurred as a who invests in the industry and makes resu'i:t of the fitting of emission control something out of it. devices, nor do I believe they are necessary Mr. Davis: Mr. Bjelke-Petersen isn't doing in Queensland. They certainJy are not too badly. necessary in Western Australia, South Aus­ tra!lia or the Northern TerDitory. The Mr. GOLEBY: The honoura,ble member Jegislation governing emission control devices is only jeaJous. covered the whole of the nation because of Queensland is probably one of the most probJems that arose only in Sydney and fortunate areas in the world in terms of Mclbourne. As in many other instances, energy resources. We have a huge coal the population of those two cities control industry, and I believe that ultima~ely the the habits of an Australians. Even on railway network that serves that mdustry the Federal politica:l scene, those two cities in Queens·land wi!J be electrified. The have sufficient members in Parliament to Galilee and Bowen coal basins stretch control the activities of all Australians. On virtuahly the length of the State. the basis of area, of course, the popuJation of Sydney and Melbourne represent only The metropolitan railway system is to be a very small area. electrified. I am sure that honourable mem­ bers who had an opportunity to travel on Mr. Davis: Do you know that Brisbane the electric train last week appreciate that has the third•highest rate of poJlution? Brisbane will have one of the best electri­ fication systems in Australia. Mr. GOLEBY: If the honourable member Mr. Houston: It is 20 years behind time, had listened, he wou1d have heard me say and you know it. that a couple of small areas in Brisbane are affected. However, the fitting of emission Mr. GOLEBY: If the Labor Government controJ devices to a:ll motor vehicles is a had carried out its electrification very severe penalty to impose on the whole proposals the system would not be as good of the State. The fitting of these devices as the one we have now. The railways of costs the nation approximately $30,000,000 Queensland would have suffered. No-one a year by way of additional fuel costs. That can deny that the diesel-electric locomotives was the figure before the increase in fuel perform tremendous service throughout the prices. State. They move vast quantities of coal, I was interested to hear members of the grain, beef and other rural products. The Opposition talk about the urgent need to old steam trains simply could not have carry out oi:l eXjploration. I would remind handled the tonnages. One diesel-electric them that unti1 the advent of the Whitllam locomotive pulls four or five times as much Government oil exploration in Australia was as steam engines did years ago. proceeding quite satisfactorily. Mr. Houston: Who introduced diesel­ electrics? Mr. Davis interjected. Mr. GOLEBY: This Government has Mr. GOLEBY: I know that this upsets extended the diesel-electric services through­ the member for Brisbane Central; but he out the State. Labor has not been in power cannot deny that within two years of since 1957, which is a long time ago. Whitlam's eJection as Pr,ime Minister onJy two oil rigs were left in Australia. The Mr. Houston: They were in before then. others had gone to the ~hilippines, Indonesia Mr. GOLEBY: Does the honourable mem­ and Borneo, and they are still there. It ber realise that the Queensland railway sys­ is now the Fraser Government's job to tem is now earning $1,000,000 a day­ attract them back to Australia. It didn't something that it never did under Labor? take them long to go, but it will take a long time to get them back. Mr. Houston: It is losing money, too. Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates) 1499

Mr. GOLEBY: I assure honourable mem­ tongue. I have many migrants in my bers that the railway system did not make area and none has ever expressed the wish a profit under Labor. to ~e that we should have a multilingual society. They are very eager to become part Mr. Davis: Who tore up the track from of our society and they have adapted them­ Cleveland to Wynnum? selves very well. I congratulate the Minister and his depart­ Mr. GOLEBY: And who is going to put ment on the job they have done. it back? The honourable member might be interested in that. If he stays here another (Time expired.) few months he will see its being replaced. Mrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (7.35 p.m.): Mr. Booth: He will not be here after There are certain questions I would like to the next election. ask about the Estimates of the Industry and Administrative Services portfolio. Firstly, Mr. GOLEBY: No, he will not. under the heading "Contingencies (Subdiv­ ision)" under the subheading "Special Investi­ Industry is very dependent on railway gations" the amount appropriated for 1979-80 workers. is $70,000. Last year $46,344 was spent. I would like to know what are special investi­ Before the dinner recess, criticism was gations, and if they are so special why they levelled at our education system. It is very have not been named? I have no qualms easy to condemn the education system. Only about the salaries mentioned under the a week or so ago I inspected the Capalaba heading "Chief Office", because there are a High School, which is one of the finest high great number of people employed. The total schools in the State. It was an eye-opener amount required for the 95 people employed to see students in Grade 9 in the industrial is $1,190,000. However, under the heading section doing work on lathes and other "Immigration", apart from the migration specialised equipment most efficiently. After officer we see listed an assistant migration they complete Grade 10 their training will officer, clerks, stenographers, welfare officers, equip them very well for the work-force. a chauffeur and an assistant. To whom is Thanks to the tuition they receive from very that chauffeur attached-if that is the word talented instructors on an excellent range of to use about a chauffeur-and who would equipment, those students will be able to he be driving around? I would be very inter­ move into almost any workshop and acquit ested to know that. I see "Grant to Good themselves very well. They will not be Neighbour Council" also listed. The council strangers to the trades. They will be able was mentioned by the honourable member to adapt to all the trades which are so for Redlands, and I agree entirely with his important to industrial development. remarks. Mr. Houston: What are you doing about I think that this Government suffers from a job for them? a total lack of immigration policy. In fact, certain Government members have been con­ stantly saying that they do not agree with Mr. GOLEBY: The honourable member the State policy because it overlaps what would be surprised to know how many jobs is done by the Commonwealth Government. are available in my electorate. It is one They suggest that the immigration section of of the fastest-growing electorates in the this portfolio ought to be cut out entirely State. Only the other day, when the Red­ because it means $663,000 down the drain. land Shire Council called applications for a That money could be put to far better use junior job, there were only three applicants. elsewhere. That expenditure is certainly not In those circumstances the honourable mem­ necessary in this State. Assistance for ber cannot tell me that there is a long migrants, welfare, hostels, staff, etc. should be waiting list for employment. entirely the Commonwealth Government's Earlier today the honourable member for responsibility. Obviously the Minister .would South Brisbane referred to migrants in our not like it, and I dare say some public ser­ community. I do not think anyone would vants would not like it either because a few deny the talents they have brought to this of them might be out of a job, but they land. I am sure we have all benefited not could be re-employed in the Commonwealth only from their work skills but from their Public Service. There is an overlap here, culture and way of life. However, I can­ and at a later stage I will discuss this Gov­ not agree with him that we should have ernment's short-sightedness in having no a multilingual society. Migrants are noth­ plans for the future. If it does, they are ing new in our community. Ever since the jolly well hidden. settlement of this country we have relied On the subject of the Minister's Estimates, on migrants. Since Australia started to I have assiduously collected these pieces of develop as a nation many of its fine crafts­ white paper which are all headed, "Press men have come from Europe. I am sure release from the Honourable Norm Lee ..." that the early migrants adapted quickly and One of the Press releases states- learnt our language. I am sure that if any "The Industry Minister (Mr. Lee) said of us were to migrate to a foreign country today a $52,567 order for further supplies we would be expected to learn the local of bond copy paper to meet Government 1500 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

service requirements has been placed with I do not have any comment to make about Associated Pulp and Paper Mills Ltd., of the fact tha:t this Government has been Melbourne. advertising in other States. Apart from the Forty-eight tonnes will be bought for parochialism that this Government is con­ $989 a tonne and six tonnes for $1,028 a tinually displaying, the fact that we are tonne." advertising in other States would seem to I would not hesitate to say that the Min­ indicate to me that there is an interest in ister's department is not buying Queensland­ poaching industries from as many other States made paper, but that half of that paper will as possible, and that that is the raison d'etre be used to churn out the Press releases for this whole department. It seems to me from the Minister's department. that if the only function of the department is to try get major industries to expand here, The next Press release contains one sen­ then it could well be amalgamated with tence. I am sure that the piece of paper another department, because, obviously, its would have cost at least 5c. I have many nnge is rather limited. one-sentence Press releases here. Mr. Scott: That is the extent of the Mr. Goleby: Didn't you come from inter­ Minister's vocabulary. state? Mrs. KYBURZ: The Minister has a Press Mrs. KYBURZ: I will be picking on the Secretary. He does not have to write his honourable member's speech later; if ever own Press releases. there was a short-sighted speech, his was Mr. Frawley: Do you think he got some it. of that paper from Lady Scott? Another Press release I have been saving Mrs. KYBURZ: As long as we can read up concerns the State Stores Board. It between the flowers, I don't mind. The states- thing that I take umbrage at is the fact " The State Stores Board is to spend that this whole sheet of paper is used for a total of $50,000 to buy 30 000 metres only one sentence. The sentence might be o.f plain linen dowlas material from extremely important, but is it so important Erskine Beveridge and Co. Ltd. of Scot­ that it could not be fed into a telex and land, to meet Government service require­ so save the sheet of paper? This Press ments." release states- "A $183,469 tender has been accepted Why was that material bought0 Was it for from Transfield (Qld.) Pty. Ltd. for con­ towels or something that cannot be manu­ struction of a bridge over a cooling water factured in Australia? The Pre''' release channe~l on the Clinton Industrial Estate continues- at Gladstone, the Industry Minister (Mr. "The material is not manufactured in Lee) said today." Australia." I must congratulate the Minister on this. I give him one bouquet-that is about a!I I believe that the cost of $1 for 60 cm i;; he will get. Earlier this year I wrote to fair enough. If that material cannot be the Minister and expressed my concern about bought in Australia, that is a reasonable trees in this State and the paper industry price. itself, and asked him to refrain from sending me Press releases as I fe1t they were a There are many other releases which I waste of money. To his credit, he refrained. could discuss. I now read one of ihem- I congratulate him for doing so, because I "Criticism of the Queensland Cement and am quite sure that, just to nark me, he Lime Company's $85 million clinker plant would have liked to continue to send them to at Gladstone was described as short-sighted me. However, I do miss his one-sentence by the Industry Minister (Mr. Lee) today. Press releases. My file was getting rather thick. I was keeping them for scribbling "The critics have ignored the benefits to paper. However, some other Minister is the whole community that will accrue as bound to provide that scribbling paper. a result of the project, particularly in job opportunities." Another Press release states- "Some South AustmHan manufacturers The Minister holds very strongly to this view. are the latest from interstate to indicate I certainly do not quibble with him about an interest in establishing operations in the strength of his view. However, I hold very Queensland, the Industry Minister (Mr. strongly to the view that both he and the Lee) said today." Government are short-sighted. The Govern­ Further on it refers to the advertis'ing cam­ ment has aided, abetted and given a helping paign that this department had been running hand to that company, and helped create a in all States. Then there is this profound monopoly. That will double the cost of statement- cement and augurs badly for the future of "We are not trying to poach industry the building industry in this State. from orther States. We are interested in those wishing to expand their operations I have asked many questions on this sub­ here." ject. The Minister obviously takes umbrage Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1501

a! the f!3-ct that I ask the questions, because the wrong thing entirely. The Minister for h1s replies are couched in terms similar to Mines, Energy and Police overrode the min­ the following- ing warden's recommendations and has "! repeat again for the Honourable refused to make them public. I believe he Member's information, who apparently was wrong in that refusal. What a mining fi_nds _great difficulty in understanding the warden recommends should be public prop­ situation, that the Government has encour­ erty. There is no doubt that the mining aged The Queensland Cement and Lime warden recommended that the project not go Co. Ltd. to proceed with construction of ahead. When the Minister refuses to make the Gladstone clinker project as this is recommendations public, obviously everyone ~ne in :which_ a Queensland company estab­ considers that they were against the project. lished m th1s State for over sixty years will utilize Queensland resources to manu­ Further, I ask some questions. What are facture in Queensland a product essential the projected tonnages for export that Q.C.L. to Queensland's continuing development eX'pects from the Mt. Larcom area after and_ provide increased employment oppor­ 1982? Servicing the loan indebtedness will tumtJes for Queenslanders." require an increased export potential from that area. How has the Government's con­ If that is not pure parochialism, I am unsure tract with Q.C.L. been drawn up? This par­ what is. ticular agreement came to the public's atten­ I read with dismay in this morning's tion because the Government had agreed to "Courier-Mail" that Cabinet was looking to buy Q.C.L. cement for aU Government con­ legislate against take-overs of Queensland tracts. With its three companies in Queens­ companies. I simply would not vote for such land, it will be the only supplier of cement a proposal. I acknowledge that there are in this State. I ask the Minister to give an many areas in the State which are naturally assurance that he will make public the Gov­ a Queensland inheritance. However this ernment contract rates for the supply of State is not an island; it is part of Au;tralia. Q.C.L. products that have been negotiated Somehow or other that fact seems to float between the Minister and representat,ives of over the he;ads of many Cabinet Ministers. the company. I believe that they ought to queensland Is, nevertheless, still in the federa­ be made publrc. I believe that the other twn. The day that Queensland secedes will sectors of the building industry ought to be the day a lot of people move south. know whether or not this Government is making a sweetheart deal with bhat company. Obviously the Minister would not have answered these questions himself. However, Q.C.L. has a 43.1 per cent controlling I place on record that whoever answered interest in North Australian Cement. In the them for the Minister has made a fool of event of enforced divestment of shares or a himself in making a jibe at a member. Some reduction in shareholding by Q.C.L., can the Ministers take question-time very light-heart­ Minister give an assurance, under the terms edly and their answers are rude. That augurs of Government contracts with Q.C.L., that badly for them. They should take time to North Australian Cement will supply Gov­ r.ead the answers prepared for them by pub­ ernment cement requirements within its he servants. It is as simple as that. region? In other words, will there be a maintenance of supply for the North Queens­ Further to that, I would like to ask other land area? North Queensland particularly questions concerning Q.C.L. and the Q.C.L. requires an assured supply so that bui,ldings a.greement. I now know that, as the legisla­ that have been started can be continued tion has been amended, there is really nothing and building activity can be maintained. that can be done about it. However, I am concerned about the favourable treatment Those are my main concerns about Q.C.L. given to the Queensland Cement and Lime I have many others. I could certainly quote Company Ltd. by this Government. I under­ from the financial editor of "The Austra­ ~1and that the security of the cement industry lian", who has written many articles on it. Is of equal concern to this Government. The One of his most outstanding statements is expansion programme at Gladstone and Mt. the following- ~arcom has a lot of questions hanging over " ... it is obvious that Q.C.L. will require It, not the least of which is its economic a substantial boost in revenue and profits viability. To service the $85,000,000 indebt­ for the project package to work. An edness will require a great deal of working average, and probably a conservative, capital. . The loans undertaken by the com­ interest rate of 10% per annum, would pany will need a great deal of financing. mean an additional interest bill of about I can see no alternative to an increase in $7 minion a year. Moreover, the addi­ the price of cement. tional equity will require the payment of a further $1.47 million net from July The comment has been made that mining 1981, plus another $400,000 if the shares leases at Mt. Larcom to supply the proposed under the standby facility are issued. Gladstone project were granted over con­ This does not allow for the possible $6.68 siderable objections from local farmers. In miHion increase in capital through the the public interest, however, obviously some conversion of convertible debentures and people have to suffer. I understand that but the subsequent issue of scrip to Holder­ I do think that another Minister has done bank." 1502 Supply [30 OcToBER 1979] (Estimates)

The worrying thing about Holderbank is In "The Aus1raJian" last week-end, a head­ that it is one of the world's largest cement line said "100,000 jobs in '80s boom". companies. He goes on to say- Unfoi'tunateily, a:bout 500,000 people are "Even after allowance is made for these now unemployed, and there is no saying what factors it appears that Q.C.L. and its the number might be in the 1980s. The advisers are expecting a growth rate over repoi't said- the initial years of the project at a higher "A Fedeml Government survey has level than the 6-7% compound rate of estimated that investment projects involv­ the past 20 years." ing a minimum of $16,300 miUion are in either the committed or final feasibility I do not believe that that growth rate wiU stages. eventuate in the bui

It will be a very busy section o.f roadway, caused by industry. That is why I am and I appeal to the Government to build a raising it with the Minister tonight. We first-class road with good foundations so know he is more tolerant than other Minis­ that it can carry heavy transports. ters. We know he certainly has more sense The Minister knows as well as I do that than they do, and that is saying something. Alcan is talking about building a smelter We are very pleased with what the Minister in the area. The 960 ha area that the is doing and the development that is taking Minister, in his wisdom, saw fit to obtain place in my area. I thank his officers for will become a very big industrial centre. I the work they have done and the way they ask the Government not to penny-pinch on have assisted me over the past 12 months. the road-works but to construct a first-class roadway. Mr. FRAWLEY (Caboolture) (8.13 p.m.): First of all, I congratulate the Minister for I am pleased to note in the Minister's Industry and Administrative Services on the Estimates an allocation of $500,000 for the fine job he has done since he assumed this road to link the Dawson Highway with the portfolio. industrial development just west of the Rocky Glen Hotel. This is a necessity, and Mr. Bertoni: He's an Al Minister. there should not be any delay in this work. Since February this year the roadway has Mr. FRAWLEY: I think he is. He been cut. The delay has no1t been caused certainly holds his place in the ministry. Any by the Department of Commercial and time a back-bencher approaches the Minister ~ndustrial Development. It was ready to play about anything, he is given a considered Its part, as were other parties such as the hearing, and that is something that never Gladstone Harbour Board, and it put up the occurred in the days when the Labor Party money. But we found that the Minister for was in power. Because I used to work down Mines, Energy and Police and his depart­ here and had the opportunity of observing ment shirked their responsibilities and pulled them all, I can say that with authority. out o.f the deal But we are very pleased to The director of the Minister's department, see that further expenditure has been allowed Mr. Bensted, has been of great assistance for in this Budget and that the project wiH to the people I have sent to see him. There go ahead even though, instead of being com­ are two young people in my area who are pleted. by February this year, the completion developing an industrial estate on the old date IS some 12 months or more away. Gympie Road out near the Caboolture show­ We are very pleased to have industry in grounds. They did not want any money; my area but, as I said the other day, we do all thev wanted was some advice. I obtained suffer from certain forms of pollution. Not an appointment for them with one of the only do we have air and water pollution officers of the department, and they were but noise pollution as well. Pollution must given plenty of good advice. If anybody be taken into consideration when we are approaches the department about the setting considering the setting up of a new industry. up of an industry and the department cannot We have an Air Pollution Council that was accommodate them, if they go to Caboolture set up in 1963, but since that time only two and see these two young fellows who are firms have been fined for polluting the air. establishing this industrial estate they will One was Mount Isa Mines and the other be welcomed. The department gives a pretty was a firm down here in Brisbane. good service to people who want to estab­ lish an industry, and I congratulate the Dr. LOCKWOOD: I rise to a point of Minister and his officers for doing this. orde.r. 'Ifle honourable member is wrong. He Is talkmg completely outside the scope of The Labor Party now has a policy on the Estimates today. His remarks should industry and administrative services. It is be directed to the Local Government about time, too, because when they were Estimates. the Government they had no such policy. In het, I have been reading the policy, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. and it is obvious that many parts of it Row): Order! I do not accept the point have been poached from both National and of order, but I do suggest that the honour­ Liberal Party policies. The preamble states- able member for Port Curtis be relevant in "Queenslanders can no longer claim his remarks. immunity from the economic and social disadvantages that are associated with con­ Mr. PREST: I quite agree with your ruling, centrated urban population growth." Mr. Row, but I disagree with the honourable We know that. In fact, this Government, member for Toowoomba North. Good through its industrial estates, has been one heavens, if air, water or noise pollution of the greatest advocates of decentralisation. ?oes not come from industry, where does 1t c.ome from? This is what I am sug­ Mr. Warburton: Why are the little towns gestmg here today. When discussions take dying? place between various firms, Government departments and the Government itself Mr. FRAWLEY: Through you, Mr. Row, CO!Jsideration should be given to doing some: I ask the honourable member to name some thmg about the problem of the pollution of the towns that are dying. He can think Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1505

them up and I will answer his interjections Mr. Scott: Why do you harp on the sub­ while I continue with this important con­ ject? tribution. Mr. FRAWLEY: I a:m not harping on it An Opposition Member: Caboolture. at aJl. The Labor Party tried to do it. Mr. FRAWLEY: Caboolture is one of the Mr. Lee: Have you read their book? most thriving towns in South-east Queensland. The A.L.P. talks about the objective of Mr. FRAWLEY: Yes. I ha\·e the silly balanced development and the need for thing here. promotion of country development. What do I will tell honourable members about honourable members opposite think we are Labor's policy on industrial development. doing with these industrial estates in the The only policy on industrial development country if we are not developing country that Labor had back in vhe 1950s was the towns? The member for Port Curtis, who establishment of the Albert Street and has just resumed his seat, can be reasonably MaDgaret Street brothels. That is all it thankful to this Government for some of the thought about in those days .. It did n?t indust,ry that has been established in his care about industry. Only one h1gh school m electorate. the State ga¥e manual training, and that was the Industrial High School at the corner of Mr. Prest: Good representation. Edward and Alice Streets. Mr. FRAWLEY: Yes, it was good repre­ Mr. Moore~ They taught that "manual sentation by the previous member for Port labour" was a Spaniard. Curtis, the late Marty Hanson, who was a damned good member. You are not fit to lick Mr. FRAWLEY: They thought that he his boots. was the Mexican consul. Every State high school now teaches the manual arts of The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. woodwork and metalwork. Only recently I Row): Order! The honourable member will went to the Caboolture State High School to address the Chair. inspect some of the work going on there. I happened to walk into the manual-training Mr. FRAWLEY: I am sorry; I was dis­ room. It is a credit to the teacher there and tracted. The Opposition always tries to dis­ also to this Government and the Education tract me. Department for providing the facilities. The The Opposition, in its policy, refers to A.L.P. never did that. the continued support for the e:~Cpansion of colleges of technical and further education Mr. Kaus: interjected. in non-metropolitan areas. What does it Mr. FRAWLEY: I don't go and poke my think we are doing? We are building one in nose into other people's electorates. I stick Caboolture shortly. One has been built at to my own electorate. But I do not doubt Redcliffe. There are many of these col­ that the facilities have been provided at the leges throughout the State. So Opposition Cavendish Road State High School as a members should not try to give us this result of the good representation by the rubbish about its policy. member for that area. It is only a coin­ The Opposition, in its policy, also says cidence that it happens to be the member that it supports the development of cleaner, who interjected. safer energy technologies, including wind It is obvious that the member for Port and solar energy and the use of crops­ Curtis carried the wrong brief. He spoke for example, sugar-cane-and waste materials about matters that should have been men­ for liquid"fuel production, free of multi­ tioned in the debate on the Estimates of the national control. The Opposition should Minister for Local Government and Main realise that there is no money in this Roads. We can forgive him for that. He country to develop some of these resources, continued the Labor policy of knocking every and we have to get overseas moneys. The new industry. The Rundle shale-oil project A.L.P. believes that "profit" is a dirty word. will provide jobs for at least 1,500 and pos­ People are not allowed to make a profit. sibly 2,000 people. Why does he \vant to Mr. Lee: It is a four-letter word. knock that? Comalco will provide another 2,000 jobs. Mr. FRAWLEY: It is the A.L.P.'s four­ The member for Port Curtis continues to letter word. People must not make a profit. knock these new industries. He wants to Mr. Bertoni: Don't they want the wake up to himself. The development that nationalisation of all major industries? is going on around Gladstone at present will make Port Curtis a much safer Labor seat. Mr. FRAWLEY: The A.L.P. wants to The only danger to the honourable member nationalise everything. Years ago it tried to is that there wiH be a plebiscite and he will nationalise the banks. be defeated. Then we will get a better member for Port Curtis. One good thing Mr. Scott: What has been nationalised about the development that is going on in the last 30 years? armmd Port Curtis is that it might provide Mr. FRAWLEY: Nothing, because the us with a better member in this House. Labor Party was prevented from doing it. Mr. Lee: He's not a bad bloke. 1506 Supply [30 OcroBER 1979] (Estimates)

Mr. FRAWLEY: No, he's not a bad this Government has not the interest of bloke. There are worse fellows than him, industry at heart doesn't know what he is but I just have not found them yet. talking about. Evidence of that interest is shown by the fact that it is increasing facili­ In my area there is the Narangba Indus­ ties on the Narangba Industrial Estate. triaJ Estate, which is north o:f Brisbane. It is in the Caboolture Shire, just on the Mr. Davis: They have not got a train boundary of that shire and the Pine Rivers line yet. Shire. It is only a few kilometres from Red­ cliffe. It is the second-largest industria'! Mr. FRAWLEY: I am going to talk about estate in Queensland, covering 467 ha. Part that. I am glad the member for Brisbane of the estate is on the old Bruce Highway. Central reminded me of that. I have a map It also goes across the new Bruce Highway. of the proposed train line to the Narangba The only larger industrial estate is the Industrial Estate. The honourable member Clinton Industrial Estate at GJadstone, and should listen or he will miss a valuable con­ I acknowledge that. tribution. He used to get lost when he lost sight of the tramlines at Chermside. I think that the best davs for the The Government spent more than Narangba Industrial Estate are yet to come. $1,250,000 at Narangba in acquisition and It will be the main industrial centre in development costs. Another $437,000 has Queensland. It will attract more firms and been spent on factory buildings for pioneer provide job opportunities. Pe{)j)le work out there under very pleasant conditions. They industries-not Pioneer Concrete. A pioneer can live in Caboolture, in the Pine Rivers industry is one which is the first of its Shire, or at Deception Bay and Redcliffe, type on the estate. which are very pleasant areas in which to Mr. Davis interjected. live. Mr. FRAWLEY: I did that for the edifica­ At present 15 firms are on the industrial tion of the honourable member for Brisbane estate. I have a list of them and I will read Central, because he is all bone between the them into "Hansard". The factmy buildings ears. on ihe estate erected by the department con­ tain the following companies: G. L. Baste More and more firms are seeking sites on (laminated timber interior furnishings); the estate. As I said, the latest company to Queensland Mastercraft Potteries (concrete move there was Harcros Meyers, a timber­ ornaments and garden pots); Higwood Prod­ processing firm. I know one of the principals ucts Pty. Ltd. (anchors); and J. Roat (hyd­ of that firm. He lives in Redcliffe and has a raulic drive vehicles and equipmtnt). Fac­ joinery business there. This move shows the tory buildings erected by the owners house confidence that people have in the Narangba the following firms: Rucon Farm Services area. The estate is a tribute to the Minister's Pty. Ltd. (fabrication of farm equipment and department. It is not only the pleasant buildings)-they were either the first or sec­ climate that attract~ people to the area. As ond on the industrial estate; G. L. and J. I said before, one of the most pleasant places Packer (Tanning) Pty. Ltd. (tanning of hides) to live is on that side of Brisbane, anywhere -they could have been the first or second around Narangba, Burpengary, Deception company on the estate; Walco Products Pty. Bay, Caboolture, Redcliffe-- Ltd. (steel fabrication); Stylebrick Distribu­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: Golden Beach. tors (brick veneer sheeting); C. R. and E. Logan (truck bodies); Farley and Lewers Mr. FRAWLEY: Golden Beach, Cal­ (Qld.) Pty. Ltd. (concrete batching); Road oundra and any of the areas as far as Wood­ Surfaces Pty. Ltd. (asphalt); K. V. Products ford, Kilcoy and other places are very pleas­ Pty. Ltd. (electrical and mechanical carbon ant areas in which to live. I am the member products); Keryll Sales Pty. Ltd. (steel fabri­ for most of those areas and I do not mind cation);. H~rcros. Meyers Pty. Ltd. (timber extolling their virtues. They are all good processmg mcludmg mouldings); and Vita­ places to live. foam (Aust) Pty. Ltd. (foam and foam prod­ ucts). As the 11inister has told us, the lease Mr. K. J. Hooper: Dayboro is a very pleas­ rental of the departmental factory buildings ant little spot. is on the basis of 7t per cent per annum of the cost of the building. That is a very reas­ Mr. FRAWLEY: Dayboro is one of the onable rental for anybody to pav for an most pleasant spots in my electorate. As a industrial building. - matter of fact, I was in Dayboro on Sunday. Mr. K. J. Hooper: As a matter of fact, Mr. Davis: There are Frawley's tow trucks. when you walked through the Chamber here tonight your shoes squelched. We know you Mr. FRAWLEY: That is a ridiculous inter­ were there. jection. I have never had anything on the Narangba Industrial Estate. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Row): Order! We will return to the Estimates Five other leases are being finalised on this under debate. estate and factory buildings are being built for four more concerns. Anybody who says that Mr. Prest: Let him go. He is a dill. Supply [30 0croBER 1979) (Estimates) 1507

Mr. FRAWLEY: I do not mind taking The member for Salisbury gave the Minis­ interjections from the member for Port ter a slight touch up. As I said before, I Curtis. I know who the dill is. After the am pleased that she is on our side. Queens­ next election he will be lucky to get a job land manufacturers do get preference. On on the industrial estate. State Government purchasing they get a 10 Manufacturing industries account for more per cent preference over interstate tenders. than 50 per cent of the economic output of Decentralised industries in Queensland get goods in this State. Members of the Oppo­ a 5 per cent advantage over their Brisbane sition still say that the Government does counterparts. What is wrong with the nothing for industry. Opposition members Opposition? We are decentralising industry. should read the Government's policies and We are giving industry the incentive to throw their half-baked policy where it decentralise. Many southern manufacturers belongs-in the rubbish bin. have been moving up here. ·Many more will come in the future. Narangba scores Mr. Scott: Have you got a copy of ours because of its proximity to Brisbane. There there? is only one thing wrong so far. I shall speak about it shortly and I am quite certain Mr. FRAWLEY: Of course I have. Some­ that it will be attended to. I believe that one gave it to me; I certainly did not buy it. Caboolture and neighbouring areas will con­ The growth of industry in the State speaks tinue to grow and that Narangba will provide volumes for the foresight of the Government. many job opportunities. An Opposition Member interjected. The member for Brisbane Central reminded me that there is no rail line to Narangba at Mr. FRAWLEY: The Opposition copied the present time. the Government's policy. I could have given it a copy of the National-Liberal policy to Mr. Davis: Under a Labor Government save it the cost of printing its own. there will be. The subject of pollution was mentioned before. The Narangba area is free of pol­ Mr. FRAWLEY: I have a map that shows lution. Anywhere in that area is a very the proposed rail line to Narangba-and I good place for people to raise their children. did not draw it myself. In years to come the Narangba Industrial Estate will be very important. It will sup­ Mr. Austin: It goes through a tunnel. port many families in Redcliffe, Deception Bay, Pine Rivers and Caboolture. Mr. FRAWLEY: It does go through a tunnel. The member for Wavell reminded Mr. Hansen: You're only interested in me of the tunnel. He was an engineer for South-east Queensland. the Main Roads Department on the high­ Mr. FRAWLEY: I am not just a south­ way where the tunnel is at the present time. east person at all, but I do not mind speak­ There is a tunnel under the new Bruce ing about the electorate that I represent. I Highway to connect a rail service up to think members opposite should take note of the Narangba Industrial Estate. For those that and do it, too. who can see, I hold up a map showing the rail link through the industrial estate. In Mr. Warburton: You were a bit late in fact, 6.5 ha of land has been set aside moving there, though, weren't you? in the Narangba Industrial Estate for rail­ way yards and a siding. Mr. FRAWLEY: The electorate of Caboolture comprises five-sevenths of the pre­ The tunnel under the Bruce Highway is vious electorate of Murrumba. The elector­ 19 ft. high and 17 ft. 9 ins. wide. I am not ate of Murrumba was split in the last redis­ giving these measurements in metres. For tribution. If I had the foresight to work the sake of those who do not understand out where the new boundaries would be the metric system, I am giving the Imperial and where the centre of the electorate of measurements. The minimum height to Caboolture would be, I should be con­ take a train is 16 ft. and the width is gratulated. In fact, people have said to 14 feet. The 19 ft. height for this tunnel me, "When you retire from Parliament, why is 3 ft. over the minimum for a railway don't you offer yourself as a redistribution engine. As there will only be a single commissioner, seeing you worked out the line going in, the width of 17 ft. 9 ins. boundaries so well?" Most people could is 3 ft. over the minimum width. Those have done that, but members of the Opposi­ who have said that it was not intended tion were too stupid to do it. for a train line are not telling the truth. It is. Mr. K. J. Hooper: Do you know what you would do? You would put Kingaroy Mr. Austin: It was built for a train line. into Archerfield. Mr. FRAWLEY: I know it was. One of . M!. FRAWLEY: It would certainly be a my friends actually worked on it. I have big Improvement. There would certainly be been down the tunnel and had a look at it. a better member there if Kingaroy was in As I said before, the member for Wavell Archerfield. was an engineer on this project. 1508 Supply (30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

Mr. Lee: Good foresight by the depart­ Mr. FRAWLEY: I wil:l, Mr. Row. I ment. thought it was important to make that point in view of the fact that the honourable Mr. FRAWLEY: That is right. Many member for South Bvisbane was carrying a people would be surprised to learn that the brief for Senator Georges. route from the North Coast line to the As I said earlier, the unde11pass, or tunnel, Narangba Industrial Estate has already been was constructed with the object of running surveyed by Gutteridge, Haskins and Davey. a railway line through to the Narangba A plan has been drawn that has been taken Industrial Estate when the new Bruce High­ to the Railway Department. It has been way was built. Only about 8 km of land approved by the engineers. I have that in between that industrial estate and Redcliffe would have to be purchased to enable a writing from the previous Minister for Trans­ rail link to Reddiffe to be built. That port, not the present Minister. The previous will be very important not only to me but Minister for Transport gave me an under­ also to the member for Redcliffe, who was taking in writing that that had been done. pushing for a rail link even before he became a member of this Assembly, and I am sure Mr. Dav:i.s: It's not worth the paper it that he wm cont,inue to do so. is written on. Opposition Members interjected . .Mr. FRA\YLEY: It certainly is. This Government honours its commitments. Mr. FRAWLEY: It will not be the §lwst Because the previous Minister for Transport train; it will be the train to Redcliffe. AJter (the late Honourable Keith Hooper) signed the next election, the Government Mll give this thing, it does not mean that this Gov­ some honourable members opposite who lose ernment will repudiate what he stated. It their seats a job laying sleepers. will stick to it. When the line is completed, much of the Mr. Lee: Not like the mob over there. credit for it should go to the present mem­ ber for Redcliffe, the former member for Mr. FRAWLEY: That's right. Redoliffe, and the former member for Sand­ gate (Mr. Dean), who did a great deal I was disappointed when the member for of work towards its construction. The South Brisbane castigated the Minister on honourable member for Pine Rivers and I his handling of migrants. He spoke about also made a contribution. migrants retaining their own language as well as learning English. I agree. Migrants Mr. K. J. Hooper: Did you read in contribute greatly to our culture by bring­ "Sunday Sun" where the former member for ing their customs in. A lot of their customs Redcliffe was assaulted by some irate can be readily assimilated into the Australian citizens who thought he was the Minister culture. Migrants are an asset to the State. for Local Government and Main Roads? However, I believe that migrants should retain their own name and not Anglicise Mr. FRAWLEY: That is absolute rot. it. I give a perfect example. Senator Many representations have been made to Georges is a member of the A.L.P. His the present Minister and to former Ministers given name was Georgouras. He was in relation to the rail link to the Narangba ashamed of his father's name so he changed Industrial Estate, and its construction should his name. There is an example of an be considered by the Government. A.L.P. member being ashamed of his herit­ Mr. K. J. Hooper: What about your next­ age. Th~ member for South Brisbane spoke about m1grants, yet a member of his own door neighbour, the member for Murrumba? party was so ashamed of his own name and the fact that he was a migrant that he Mr. FRAWLEY: The member for changed it from Georgouras to Georges. Murrumba did nothing about the rail link. That is an indication of the hyprocrisy of I did all the work when I was the member the A.L.P. when it talks about migrants. for Murrumba. The Narangba Industrial Estate will bring Mr. Davis interjected. a great deal of industry to Narangba. Many Brisbane firms have been to see me-and ~r. FRAWLEY: That is so stupid that I am not going to breach any confidences by I w1ll not even bother correct~ng the hon­ mentioning names---;because they know that ourable member. I saw the time was ,J have a great deal of influence with the slipping past, Mr. Row, and I digressed Minister, and they have guaranteed that momentari,Jy to mention that Senator ,they will decentralise and move out to Georges was so ashamed of his migrant Narangba immediately a rail siding is built name-- on the estate. Therefore, I urge the Government to build the rail link from The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Vhe North Coast railway line to the Narangba Row): Order! I suggest that the honourable Industrial Estate as early as possible. It member get back to the Estimates under will further enhance the prospects of the discussion. estate. Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1509

Mr. D'ARCY (Woadcirlge) (8.32 p.m.): rapidly. The Government does not recognise The totaJ estimated expenditure for the the 35-hour week, nor does it recognise Department of Commencial and Industrial technology for what it is. On its own admis­ Development for 1979-80 is only $17,000,000. sion, industry has suffered massive defeats As far as expenditure is concerned, it is in Queensland over the past 12 to 18 months. not a very important department; but Queenslanders should regand it as one of The figures show that there is no cohesion the most important departments because its of effort made by the State to alleviate the Estimates are being debated this year. problems confronting industries. I refer specifically to the building industry. The Personaitly, I am ~hocked by the procedure Minister's report states that in 1978-79 the adopted in this ParHament. The fact is building industry remained in a relatively that only eight of the departmental Estimates depressed state throughout Queensland and are being discussed, and I think that is the nation, with the level of new dwelling a shocking inrlictment of the Ministers in construction being a particular cause for this Government. concern. It goes on to state- Mr. Bishop: Did you speak in the Budget "The number of new dwellings completed debate? in the State increased only slightly during the first nine months compared with the Mr. D'ARCY: Of course I spoke in the same period of the previous year. The Budget debate. The Estimates debate gives value of dwelling completions, however, honourable member's a chance of looking increased 18.7 per cent in the same time." at individual departments and sections of departments. As I said, the Minister's dep­ That means that the actual number of artment has an estimated expenditure of dwellings fell substantially over that period only $17,000,000. and the cost of dwellings increased. Accord­ ing to table 1 in the Minister's report, i~ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! 1973-74 the number of dwellings stood at I suggest that the honourable member come 27,000 and in 1978-79 it was only 18,000. back to ~he Estimates under discussion. That represents a reduction of approximately 10,000 in the period from 1973 to 1979. All Mr. D'ARCY: I am speaking about the we ever hear from the Government is, "Whit­ expenditure of $17,000,000 for which the lam did this and Whitlam did that." The Minister is responsible. I can understand Whitlam era saw the construction of 27,000 that this is a very ticklish subject for homes in this State. honourable members on the opposite side of the Chamber. l'hey know that the Relate that to population and the Budget, Committee should be debating the Estimates as the Minister does in table 2 of his report. for each department. They realise that that He could not even get his figures right. is the correct procedure if the Parliament Queensland received a reduced sum from the is to function correctly. It is a shocking Commonwealth because its population was indictment of the G:ovcmment that it is over-estimated by 5,000. The population in not accounting to the people for hundreds New South Wales was under-estimated by of mimons of dollars of Government 13,000. The Premier is frequently reported expenditure. It is shocking that the Com­ in the Press as saying, "Look at all the mittee is debating the Estimates of a depart­ people coming to Queensland." The Min­ ment whose total Vote is only $17,000,000, ister's figures show that the population was when the State's totrul Budget is in excess over-estimated by 5,000 and that the popu­ of $2,000 million. l'he Minister is responsible lation in New South Wales was under-esti­ for the Department of Commercial and mated by 13,000. Industrial Development, Immigration, the On migration, the report states- State Stores, the Government Printing Office and the Government Motor Garage. "The number of migrants to Queensland declined during the year. The national Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Could a Minister with employment situation and the consequent the ability of Mr. Lee handle any more stringent application of acceptable employ­ responsibility than that? ment categories were the main causes of the low intake." Mr. D'ARCY: He would have difficulty in Migration comes under the Minister's po,rt­ doing so. folio, so, in the light of rising unemployment It is a shocking indictment of the Govern­ in Queensland, the Minister has a lot to ment that the Committee is not discussing answer for. the Estimates of all departments. In terms of employment, this department is probably An Opposition Member: Do you think the one of the most important in Queensland. Premier would be promoting that sort of It is also important in the field of future tech­ thing through the Minister? nological change. However, it has done very little to allay the fears of Queenslapders Mr. D'ARCY: The Premier is for ever about unemployment. In fact, the department crying in the Press about Queensland and has been a disaster in this regard. It appears Queensland industry, but we know that that every major project undertaken by it Queensland is becoming more and more a has turned sour. Unemployment is increasing branch manager's State. In the past few 81362-52 1510 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) weeks the Minister and the Premier have Mr. Mackenroth: You realise that she was failed to give me statistics of take-overs of reading a speech made last year? I raised Queensland industries. that matter nearly 12 months ago. Mr. Bishop interjected. Mr. D'ARCY: I remember the honourable Mr. D'ARCY: I am not talking about member's raising that matter quite strongly the type of industry that the member for in this Chamber. Surfers Paradise is referring to. I am taJlking The Department of Industrial Development about industries with a high capital intake report indicates that the Government lent and a high labour content-industries that that company $18,000,000. provide the employment we need so badly in Queensland. Mr. Lee: That is not right. Industries are being taken over on a large Mr. D'ARCY: Was it $17,000,000? scale by southern companies and being transferred to the South. Queensland is Mr. Lee: We did not lend it money at all. being used as a branch manager State. As the Premier said on T.V. tonight, the Govern­ Mr. D'ARCY: The Government guaran- ment is conc~rned about the problem. It teed loans for that company. must be concerned about it at every level because, as the Premier said, not only do Honourable Members interjected. the southern companies lower employment The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. opportunities, but they also take out of the Row): Order! Until the Chamber comes to State banking and credit arrangements, and order, this debate will not continue. I ask top-level executives. That is the huge honourable members to cease making mul­ problem confronting Queensland. It is time tiple interjections. that the Government documented in Parlia­ ment exact,ly how industry is being taken Mr. D'ARCY: I think the fact that from the State. Queensland Cement & Lime has been men- We have heard much about the P.T.L. 1lioned so often in this Parliament means that take-over, but we have not heard about the all members are becoming concerned about smaller companies that are taken over. My the Government's preoccupation with the family was involved in a company that company and· its activities. One must be con­ started here in 1946. It was helped by the cerned about it when the Government is then Labor Government as a wholly-owned obviously prepared to prop up such an Queensland company. Recently it was forced inefficient industry. to accept a take-over bid by A.C.I. Even if the family had held out, a section in the Mr. Lee: Tripe! Companies Act provides that if a company gains sufficient shares in another company Mr. D'ARCY: The Minister has made the remaining shareholders have to sell. more faux pas than anybody I know. He would never last in private enterprise. Gov­ Mr. Frawley: They wanted to sell. ernment members talk about private enter­ prise, but this Government would not sur­ Mr. D'ARCY: Under the Act, they had vive in private enterprise. We could talk to sell. about Greenvale and the Government's many That meant Queenslanders lost jobs in other failures. this company that was promoted and helped Even the department's report referred to by an A.L.P. Government. A.C.I. will close financial assistance to Queensland Cement & down the industry and cause a loss of jobs Lime when it stated- in the State. "The upswing of industrial activity in On looking at the total situation in Queens­ the economy brought with it an increasing land I rea1ise that this Government is doing number of enquiries for financial assistance. very liHle, and the Department of Industrial In many instances, the Department was Development is doing even less. The depart­ able to provide advice on avenues of avail­ ment should be involved actively in promot­ able finance for different projects. ing Queensland, whereas it is a sell-out "Four applications were referred to the department. It is selling out Queensland Industries Assistance Board by the Minis­ industries and we are becoming a branch ter and subsequently Government guaran­ manager State in which the southern people tees totalling $22.6 million were approved. have very little interest. That is evidenced Individual guarantees ranged from a few by the departmental report, which sets out thousand dollars for small developments to that total employment in industry in $18 mmion for the Queensland Cement Queensland increased by 1 per cent. That and Lime Company project in Central is not sufficient to keep up with the normal Queensland." increase in the number of people seeking employment. We are concerned because That is a crazy amount of money consider­ industries that are not worth while to the ing-- State are being .propped up by the Govern­ Mr. Mackenroth: You realise that, whilst ment. I refer to industries such as Queens­ the Minister's department is guaranteeing the land Cement & Lime, which the honourable $18,000,000, it was loaned to that company member for Salisbury referred to earlier. through the S.G.I.O.? Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1511

Mr. D'ARCY: I realise that. We should Dr. LOCKWOOD (Toowoomba North) be getting some answers about the S.G.I.O. (8.50 p.m.): I am glad that the member while we are discussing these Estimates. One for Woodridge finally got around to unem­ wonders why we cannot get answers in this ployment. One of the things that the com­ Parliament about the so-called assets of the mittee of parliamentarians that looked at this S.G.I.O. matter of unemployment in Queensland found was that the goods imported into Mr. Bishop: Why don't you get on to the Australia and consumed here represented a Estimates? loss to the Australian worker of five hours a week. I think that our Minister for Industry Mr. D'ARCY: I would be very worried and Administrative Services is well aware of about the S.G.I.O., too, if I were the hon­ the fact that this country has to fight, and ourable member. Nafional Party members fight hard, to retain our industries against are very embarrassed about it. Sir Robert the flood of imports. It has to maintain the Sparkes would obviously like to get his hands viability of our industries. In addition, our on it. One wonders what this Government industries have to fight to ensure that, is on about. It continually harps on the fact wherever possible, they can export. The that this is the State of free enterprise and loss of five hours a week for each employee private enterprise, but it is not the least is a big burden, and it is one of the major interested in free enterprise or private enter­ factors that are causing unemployment in prise. It is more interested in propping up Australia at the moment. some of its friends. It has no interest in unemployment or the future of workers in We all know where it began. It began this State, particularly with the technological when Whitlam opened the floodgates of cheap changes that are occurring. imported goods. He did it with blatant dis­ regard for the effect it would have on the There is one industry in this State that I Australian work-force. He took the cheap am most concerned about, because it is a political gains. He allowed in cheap imported big employer and at the moment it is going clothes, rather than provide the security of through terrible turmoil. I refer to the motor full employment in the Australian work­ industry. It is receiving no help from this force, particularly in the manufacturing Government, particulady from the legisla­ sector. tive point of view. The industry was set back on its heels recently following a savage Mr. R. J. Gibbs: What about cheap inferior attack on it bv the Federal Government. It medical instruments brought from overseas is time that tl{is Government recognised that by all you blokes? the motor industry is an important industry to this State. Our Police Force is tied up Dr. LOCKWOOD: I buy first-class German investigating racket after racket in the instruments. I am sorry to say that they are motor-vehicle industry. not made in Australia. One thing the Minister has done very We know that the biggest racket in this strongly in his portfolio is implement the State is the stealing of motor vehicles, yet policy of the decentralisation of industry this Government refuses to recognise title to in this State. I would ask him to keep the motor vehicles. The situation in my elec­ notion of full decentralisation before Cabinet. torate, and electorates like it, is that people The Department of Commercial and Indus­ buy motor vehicles with dud titles. The trial Development is .extremely good at vehicles are taken from them, and they end implementing the decentralisation policy. up without the vehicles but with huge debts Some other departments are also very good at to finance companies. It is a crazy situa­ it, but I am afraid that a few departments are still vesting all their power in Brisbane. tion and it should be corrected, as is being Despite representations and despite our policy, done in other States. they do all in their power to keep every bit It is time that we in Queensland looked of power in Brisbane. So I ask the Minister seriously at changing our corporate affairs to fight very hard every opportunity he gets law and giving title to motor vehicles in in Cabinet to ensure that the decentralised this State, so that a person acquiring a policy, as he implements it, rubs off onto motor vehicle under hire-purchase would other Ministers. actuaJ.ly own the vehicle. Then, if a person There is a need in this State for a com­ was defrauded, the company involved could plete review of our policies on industrial be charged and held responsible for restitu­ estates. Certainly they are there to aid the tion, not the poor person who happened to manufacturing industries, and are a very buy a vehicle with a dud title. noble concept, but we are finding that the manufacturing base throughout Australia is Mr. Krui'cr: In the South they say, "You shrinking. Because automation is coming into go slow wnh Joh." industries and because of the flood of imports, the manufacturing base in this Mr. D'ARCY: Yes. That might be refer­ country is shrinking. It is managing to grow ring to the motor-vehicle industry. I again in Toowoomba, but that is more because of ask the Minister to look seriously at the the nature of that city. Toowoomba is serv­ problems that could be facing his industry­ ing primary industries and has an extremely unemployment and technology. heavy involvement in transport. 1512 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

The primary sector of the economy is that we allow 400 000 tonnes of crude oil shrinking. A decreased number of people a year to be used at the Queensland Nickel are involved in farming, but an increased plant at Townsville. Coal should be used amount of farm machinery is needed. The in place of that oil. It is an incredible engineering industries in Toowoomba are waste of a precious commodity. Anything making the required implements. They are that the Minister and his Cabinet colleagues providing employment and remaining viable. can do to encourage the rapid conversion One per cent of the State's population is of that plant to coal will aid in the con­ involved in mining. Those people are doing a servation of fuel oil. The Government is great job, and are winning us a great deal studying what is required to achieve the of export income. Seven per cent of our conversion to coal of many of the oil fur­ population are engaged in farming, and those naces throughout the State. It must also people, too, do a good job in winning us see what can be done to convert many of valuable export income. Another 21 per cent the oil furnaces to electric heating. Many of our population are engaged in another of them are only small and electricity could section of industry. The remaining 71 per cope with what is required. I am sure that cent of the population are engaged in the the importance of these matters has escaped tertiary industries. Not one Minister has the the notice of most members. If one com­ responsibility to oversee the collective well­ pany uses 400 000 tonnes of crude oil a being of all those industries that unite to year, we have indeed to look hard and look form the service industries. Perhaps the long at the crude oil use in industry and Minister could take that under his wing and commerce. see to the business aspects of the admin­ I am aware that industries overseas have istration of the health, education, justice, been awaiting a solution to the problem of transport, energy and a whole host of other using crude oil, particularly in nickel refin­ service industries. All forms of service indus­ eries. Some of the islands of Indonesia tries could come under one ministry so that have huge nickel deposits. Their develop­ the tertiary industries receive the recognition ment is being delayed until that problem is they deserve. solved. I warn the people of this State Everyone knows that there is an extremely that once that problem is solved by the use powerful mining lobby. As I said, only 1 of coal, the very high-grade ores that are per cent of the work-force is engaged in available throughout Indonesia and other mining. There is an equally powerful prim­ places in the world will knock Queensland ary industry lobby, but that industry employs Nickel clean off the map. It is absolutely only 7 per cent of the work-force. essential that this Government solve the problem confronting Queensland Nickel or An Honourable Member interjected. Townsville will lose a major industry and have a massive unemployment problem. It Dr. LOCKWOOD: It makes money and is easv to see that 1,000 or more people earns export dollars; I take the honourable will be out of work if that one industry member's point. does not solve its problem quickly. It will These two industries are extremely import­ need Government help and a great deal of ant. With the introduction of mechanisa­ industry help to solve the problem, but it tion, broad-acre farming and broad-acre has to be solved. If it is solved quickly, mining, if you like, they are able to com­ great benefits could flow to the State. If pete on the international market and help it is not solved, it will be a great disaster keep Australia viable. A huge section of to Queensland. Australian industry is largely unrecognised, and it suffers because of that fact. The supply of fuel for Queensl::tnd industry comes within the ambit of the Minister'<; One of the problems that has to be faced portfolio. It has been said that there is today is the need to supervise the supply plenty of liquid fuel of the type required of fuel to our very many motorists and our for the next 10 years, but, of course, that very many industries. I say at the outset is at an ever-increasing cost. Action ha> that this is nothing new. I mentioned it been taken throughout Australia. Other five years ago in my maiden speech in this members have touched on it. New South Chamber. At long last, in 1979, the experts Wales and South Australia have taken of the country are coming around to agree positive steps by postponing vehicle emission with what I said then. We have to start controls that this State is a~lready enforcing. securing our fuel supplies for the future. To my mind, there is no way that tho>;e Strikes have shown us how dependent we controls do not lead to increased fuel use are on fuel. The effects of those strikes in many vehicles. They cause a great deal will be nothing compared with the effects of of spark-plug trouble and a drop in fuel international wrangling and economic block­ economy. ades by overseas countries that would cut off Something the Ministecr could well look the supplies of crude oil we have come to at, though, is the proposal to increase lead expect. content in fuel from .4 gm per litre to .65 Of course, there is a need for conservation gm per litre. The idea is that, ~f the lead of these fuels. Some honourable members content is increased, many of the light might be surprised to learn that in this naphtha distillates, which because of their day and age we are so incredibly wasteful very low octane rating would cause the Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1513

average oar to ping its head off and perhaps date, and ti11 recently we have enjoyed the cause severe damage to a motor, could be luxury of extremely cheap fuel. Overseas used in a conventional motor car without countries have told us that, and it is true. adaption. However, I warn the public that A short time ago a working man on an this proposal has to be examined not only average wage could buy 200 gallons of fuel by the fuel experts but also by the medical a week with his total wage. Before World experts. Brisbane members do not seem to War II, a working man would have been be wncerned about this. Perhaps they ought able to buy only about 30 gallons of fuel to be because 1,000,000 kg of lead a year on his weekly wage, and I think we will is going into the &mog over Brisbane. rapidly return to that situation. Economies Mr. Bums: That's right. of scale in refineries did make fuel cheap, but as oil supplies dwindle and as oil becomes Dr. LOCKWOOD: Yes, and if we accept more and more difficult to recover, fuel will this proposaJ there will be 1,500,000 kg. Per­ again become extremely expensive. haps in the next 10 years it will increase There is much to be said for proceeding to 2,000,000 kg a year. Personally, I would with the shale-oil project and I, for one, prefer to see fuels go the other way, to less support it. Honourable members should note and less lead. As I understand it, Queens­ that for the cost of implementing one major land has more lead in its fuel than any power-station the size of the new one at other State. We should find out why that Tarong, we could establish one solvent coal is so. refinery that would produce liquid fuel. The cost would be about comparable. Mr. Burns: Do you know that the Air PoHution Council tried to make Greenvale Mr. Burns: How much liquid fuel? use petrol with less lead? In the end, one of the members, Mr. Wi1liams, had to resign Dr. LOCKWOOD: About one-tenth to· because the Government overrode the council. one-eighth of Australia's requirements. Fig­ ures that were quoted four or five years ago Dr. LOCKWOOD: Why were they using should have indicated that it was an economic petrol at Greenvale? proposition at the price presently being paid for crude oil. For some reason or other, Mr. Burns: In some of their developments the coal process seems to continually retreat, in the area. They overrode the Air Po.Jlu­ and I am not sure that it is not part of a tion Council, which told them what type of policy of the major international oil com­ fuel to use. panies, who have vested interests in finding and processing crude oil. As far as I can Dr. LOCKWOOD: In Townsville, as I said, see, the processing figures indicate that the Queensland Nickel uses 400 000 tonnes of shale-oil project would be economically viable crude oil a year. It should be looking to now. However, it mysteriously vanishes replace that with coal. I do not believe that before us like a mirage. we can afford the luxury of allowing it to use crude. Mr. Kaus interjected. We have to look seriously at the Dr. LOCKWOOD: The coal is already implications of increasing the lead content in available, and I believe that we should be petrol. It would not matter in the remote sending delegations to South Africa to see areas of the State, but Brisbane would have how their plant works. Sasol I is a success; to consider it seriously. Medical experts are Sasol II is a success. South Africa is not already examining children to see if those dependent on the supply of crude oil from who live near the expressways have a higher the Middle East, which is an extremely un­ lead content in their systems than is desir­ stable area; it is not dependent on supplies able. That is something that Brisbane mem­ from the East Indies, which, again, has bers should be vitaUy concerned about. We been known to be unstable. It has its fuel certainly do not seem to be able to persuade supply within the country, and it has to the oil companies about it. I am led to protect it. believe that there is a great difference between the fuel lead content in this State Australia should be looking at processes and the other States. Queensland has a overseas and seeking to follow the technology much higher lead content. We need to know in South Africa. There has been too much why. delay in following the German methods. They produced fuel before and during World War Any steps taken to lower the octane rating II, but their methods are out of date. In of super fuel and raise the octane rating my opinion, investigating teams should be of standard fuel is to be commended. At sent to South Africa. I know that the Gov­ present there are moves to raise standard ernment of that country is not considered fuel octane rating to 92 and lower the super politically desirable in some quarters. rating to 95. We will probably finish up with one grade of petrol. We will be looking to Mr. Fouras interjected. car manufacturers to see that the engines they produce and the cars they design are Dr. LOCKWOOD: South Africa's solvent as efficient as possible for their size. Certainlv refined fuel is very desirable, and the honour­ they have never worried about that up to able member will want some in his car, too, 1514 Supply (30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) if Australia's own supplies run out. He Those of us on the Gold Coast are deeply should be backing my suggestion. It is a appreciative of the assistance given by the good industry, and the A.L.P. might even department to local authorities by way of a win an inland seat if it backs it long enough­ management fee of $5,000 a year. It is something that none of its present policies given to assist the development of industry will do. I reiterate that we should be sending in the Gold Coast/ A1lbert Shire region. It teams to South Africa, where the industry is enables the two local authorities to have an in operation now. I am not convinced that industrial development officer and this move the coal that has been said to be unsuitable has contributed substantially to the growth is in fact unsuitable, and I think that a of light industry in that area. further check should be made on the suit­ Over the years, there has been a great ability of Millmerran coal and also coal deal of co-operation between the A,lbert from farther north in the Taroom/Wandoan Shire Council, the Gold Coast City Council Basin. and the Government in the development of I congratulate the Minister on the way in industry. At one time I happened to be a which he has conducted his portfolio. Again member of the industrial development com­ I ask him whether he can find ways of taking mittee of the two councils and I know how the service industries under his wing, as they well they work together with the Govern­ seem to be largely unprotected and to be ment in that field. only the secondary consideration of other Evidence of that can be found in the fact Ministers such as the Ministers for Health, that the Molendinar Industrial Estate is Education, Justice and Transport in Cabinet. full, and I am sure that very soon the In my opinion, these industries need a Min­ Ernest Junction Industrial Estate will also ister to look after the business side of their be full. I suggest to the Minister-! am sure commercial ventures because the other Min­ that he will take notice of this-that he take isters look after the technical, professional early action to plan ahead to ensure that a and ethical sides. The Minister could well third industrial estate is opened in the Gold look at taking them under his portfolio for Coast region. As I have said, it is the the benefit of Queensland, and it would be fastest-growing light-industrial area in a great advantage for the people concerned Queensland. In view of its extraordinary to know that someone in Cabinet was look­ population growth and the increase in ser­ ing after their interests. vice industry that is growing up around the tourist industry, it deserves to receive con­ Mr. BISHOP (Surfers Paradise) (9.10 p.m.): siderable Government assistance. I am very pleased to have an opportunity to support the Minister in the presentation Mr. Davis: You can't talk about anything of his Estimates and to congratulate him on bar the tourist industry. the work that he is doing. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. BISHOP: I have never known the honourable member to talk abou't anything. Mr. BISHOP: I know that members of He would be the greatest fraud that has the Opposition do not know much about ever been perpetrated on this Parliament. these matters. In fact, today there has been The honourable member for Pine Rivers a paucity of debate from the other side of described the member for Brisbane Central the Chamber. The honourable member for as a fraud. Perhaps I should not go as far Woodridge perpetrated the greatest fraud as that; he's only ha1f a fraud. that we have seen in this Chamber for some time. He had the hide to get up and say Mr. Mackenroth: Some people in this that every year the Government sho\]ld Chamber think you are a wit; I think you're present the Estimates for all the depart­ half a one. ments, yet he did not even take the oppor­ tunity to speak for his fu11 allotted time on The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. the Estimates that are before us. Once he Row): Order! Personal exchanges will be finished his set speech, he had to resort to di!>continued. speaking on trivial matters. He neglected to say that the area that he represents happens Mr. BISHOP: I congratulate the honour­ to be one of the fastest•growing light-indus­ able member on his originality. If he trial areas in Queens,land outside the Gold were to give as muoh attention, as I suggest Coast. He did not give the Minister any the Minister has, to the labour problems of credit for achieving this. In fact, he did not this State, his future in this Parliament might even talk about his own electorate. be more stable. Mr. D'Arcy: If you keep going on me, 'I1he honourable member for Woodridge you wiiJI be able to make as good as speech talked at length about the industrial situa­ as I did. tion in Queensland, but he neglected to note the Minister's comments in his speech when Mr. BISHOP: Don't wish that on me. he pointed out that in the 10 months to Without a doubt this department, under 30 ApPil this year 248,000 working days the administration of Mr. Lee, has become were lost through industrial disputes. a most progressive one. Furthermore, it has continued to implement the progressive Mr. Davis: There are also 61,000 people policies of this Government. unemployed. Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1515

Mr. BISHOP: I think the honourable quite a large share-holding in that ship which member should note that the number of days received quite a dea,J of Government sub­ lost was considerab[y h'igher than in the sidy. I wonder about the honourable mem­ same period in 1977-78. There was a ber's comments. As I understand it-the considerable increase-about 70,000-odd Minister may be able to inform me other­ working days-to 30 April this year over wise-that vessel was built for research. I the 1977-78 figures. If the Labor Partv should like the Minister to outline how much is proud of that, I hope it has some good research has been undertaken in that vessel, reasons for being so. which was financed partly by the State Government. Mr. R. J. Gibbs. I think you are trying to ape Don Lane; you run a very poor In the short time available to me, I want second. to address myself to the matter of energy and the Amoco Refinery, which is under Mr. BISHOP: I have not noticed the the control of the Minister. Throughout the honourable member's speaking in this debate. post-war period, it could be fairly said that He has nothing whatever to say about the the dominant mood of business and political industrial situation in Queensland. leaders was one of confidence and ootimism. There were, too, the tremendous 'develop­ Mr. R. J. Gibbs interjected. ment and widespread application of new technologies and the ready availability of The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! oil at prices that were falling in real terms. Mr. BISHOP: The Labor Party is always The mood of confident optimism provided quiet about the industrial success of this much of the driving force behind the devel­ Government, under the Minister for Industry opment of the post-war economic system. and Administrative Services and the Min­ It resulted in a system that boosted world ister for Labour Relations. trade to more than $1 trillion per year and produced an unparalleled rise in living stand­ Mr. Davis interjected. ards in the Western world. Mr. BISHOP: I can well understand Today, in the aftermath of the recession, the member for Brisbane Central being the viability of that economic system is now left speechless in the circumstances. He has being questioned. Doubts are expressed as nothing whatever to say about the Govern­ to whether we can maintain an adequate ment's success in industrial development. level of economic expansion. Governments Does the honourable member realise that everywhere are perplexed by the strength of with the opening of the Stanthorpe Indus­ inflationary pressures. Protectionism is sud­ rial Estate there will be 43 industrial denly taking new forms. Admittedly, sales estates in Queensland? Does he realise of goods and services have begun to recover the Government's record in industrial dev­ from the recent recession, yet businessmen elopment? Apparently he does not, and are rightly asking themselves whether we can that is why Labor Party speakers have expect these short-term trends to continue. been so few in this debate. At few times during the post-war period Mr. Kruger interjected. have the world's long,term economic and business prospects looked so uncertain. Diffi­ Mr. BISHOP: That is a fact. Has the culties still persist that clearly go beyond the honourable member contributed to the normal cyclical pattern of post-war economic debate? He has contributed nothing at experience. Can we in this economic climate alL Labor Party members have not spoken continue to maintain an open-world trading in this debate because they have nothing to and investment system? A major part of the say and they cannot counter the Govern­ answer depends on what we can do about ment's success in this area. energy, for energy remains one of the most critical cost elements in our economic struc­ Mr. AUSTIN (Wave11) (9.19 p.m.): I ture. H also remains a critical cost element wekome this opportunity to speak to the in this State's economic structure. Minister's Estimates. In doing so, I cannot help commenting on the speech made by I now want to comment briefly about the the honourable member for Woodridge. He Amoco Refinery. It recently suffered a severe made a concerted attack on the Minister shortage of crude oil, and I take my hat off and our free-enterprise system. I must say to the management of the refinery for trav­ that he is perhaps the best dressed, and elling around Australia searching for crude has the best wheels of any anti-free-enter­ oil. They not only kept the refinery operat­ prise person whom I have ever seen. I ing but ensured that the men stayed in suspect that he speaks with a forked tongue. work. Quite obviously, there are certain economies in keeping the refinery operating I believe that his attack on the Minister so that it does not have to be wound down. was unfounded. As I understand it a fairly large vessel called the "Melita" :.Vas I want to point out that I noticed recently built recently in Brisbane, and the Minister in one of the newspapers that Dutch Shell for Industry and Administrative Services announced a record half-yearly profit to supported that project. My information June this year of $2,500 million. The profit has it that the member for Woodridge had for the year is expected to be $5,000 million. 1516 Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates)

As I understand it, the significance of that began to be equipped with radial tyres only figure is that the multinational oil companies when those tyres came as standard fittings have been squeezing the small refinery oper­ on new cars. I hope that the Government ators throughout the world. In fact, they Garage will progress rather more rapidly have not been giving these countries their than it has done in the past. What I have fair share of oil. They have been flogging said is absolutely true, because I experienced it off to the highest bidder, usually Third this problem when I was a Government World countries. Consequently there has been employee. a great demand for oil in this country. I might say that New Zealand has fared much Mr. Elliott: There should be more four­ worse than this country. cylinder cars. The multinational oil companies are to be Mr. AUSTIN: I myself drive a four­ condemned for this attitude. They have quite cvlinder car and get very good economy clearly broken every principle in the book from it. by starving refineries, such as the Amoco Refinery, of oil. At this stage the Federal Mr. R. J. Gibbs: You're a mighty bloke. Government has said and done nothing about this problem. In fact, the Minister for Mr. AUSTIN: I am a conservationist, Industry has said very little about the major unlike the member for Wolston who drives mu1tinational oil companies starving this around in a big V8 car wasting the country's country of oil. fuel. I don't think that is fair. I suggest that perhaps the Ministers should consider Mr. Scott: He's not game to take them on. changing from V8s to six-cylinder cars, thus setting an example for the rest of the com­ Mr. AUSTIN: Perhaps that is right. munity. I now want to comment briefly on the I think it is worth while commenting on Government Motor Garage. I was quite dis­ the recent truckies' strike. The matter does turbed to learn recently that the two Jaguars relate to these Estimates, because many owned by the Government-! understand that truckies are owner-drivers and operate their both the Premier and the Deputy Premier own businesses. A lot has been said about have one-have of necessity been serviced by the prohibition on truckies coming into the the Government Garage. Without attacking industry, which is against my philosophy of the mechanical ability of the mechanics in private enterprise. I do not believe that the the Government Garage, I would suggest Government should introduce any legislation that, because of their limited experience in that prohibits people from entering the servicing Jaguars, the Minister ought perhaps industrv. But I suggest that the Minister, to consider using experts in that field. Those through his officers, might care to set out a who have owned a particularly exotic course for these truck operators to advise type of motor vehicle know that they need them of the pitfalls. Trucking is a specific expert servicing, and I would suggest that industry. these Jaguars ought to be serviced by a private-enterprise firm. Perhaps the Minister Mr. Davis: Come on! can tell me whether that is in fact being done now. Mr. AUSTIN: I am being very serious I want to congratulate the Minister on about this. his recent steps to introduce four-cylinder Mr. Davis: Don't you know that the Trans­ cars into the Government's fleet, although port Minister is already looking into that it has taken some time to do so. I can recall section? the time when I was a public servant and had the use of a Government car. As a matter of Mr. AUSTIN: He is looking into that fact, I did take a Government car home, section, because I asked him to do so. He but I was on call 24 hours a day. I can did suggest to me that it might be a remember that in those days we could not matter for the Minister of Industry and get a set of radial-ply tyres out of the Gov­ Administrative Services, and that is why I ernment Garage because it said they were raise it tonight. no good. First of all, we could not get cars with automatic transmission. Then the Gov­ Mr. R. J. Gibbs: Well, why don't you-- ernment Garage realised that it would get more on the resale market for cars with The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable automatic transmission than for manual cars. member for Wolston will cease making con­ It took about five years to convince the Gov­ stant interjections. ernment Garage of this. However, it would Mr. AUSTIN: Thank you, Mr. Hewitt. It not be convinced about radial-ply tyres, which is a pleasure to have you stop that member are much safer than conventional tyres. from making those interjections. It is rather Mr. R. J. Gibbs: You have always said annoying to have to stand here and listen not. to those inane comments. They are quite unintelligible. Mr. AUSTIN: I have always said that The Minister has the facilities within his they have been much safer than conventional department throughout Queensland to offer tyres. I understand that Government cars this service to the public. He can offer this Supply [30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1517 service to the small man wanting to buy decent question. Just as I am, he is con­ a truck, whether it be big or small, and cerned about conditions at the Government operate his own trucking business. I am Printing Office. I hope to be able to place sure that if his department does not have the printers in a new building very soon and the expertise at the moment, it could give them the decent conditions that they develop it. have deserved for many years. I can assure I would also suggest that it should be honourable members that if I remain the mandatory for an owner, before he gets Minister I will strive to reach that end as his licence, to see the Minister for Industry soon as possible. and Administrative Services or the Minister The member for Maryborough also men­ for Transport, as the member for Brisbane tioned Queensland's office in London and Central suggests, so that he is made aware the question of migrants. I believe we need of the pitfalls in the industry. I believe an office in London for those migrants. If, that that would solve the problem. by some chance, there is an upsurge of work Unfortunately, time is running out. I in Queemland which requires skilled labour, have to leave some time for the Minister we can get them very quick,ly through that to reply. With those few words, I will office. Apart from that, the office does many leave it at that. other valuable things. The honourable member also wanted to Hon. N. E. LEE (Yeronga-Minister for see a lot more money spent on solar energy Industry and Administrative Services) (9.29 research. Just as the honourable member p.m.): First of all, I thank each member for for M,t. Isa wants more money spent in his contribution to the debate today and that field, so does the Government. Of tonight. Some of the contributions, of course, if that were done, some eJCpenditure course, were very difficult to listen to, and on another section of the department would others had a lot of common sense in them. have to be cut back. The Government has not lost sight of the fact that solar energy Mr. K. J. Hooper: They would be the is very important and the Government will ones on the Opposition side. be following its development closely, par­ ticularly after what was said about the Little Ml". LEE: They certainly did not all come bmthers by the honourable members for from the Opposition side. Most of those Maryborough and Mt. Isa. that were hard to listen to, and had very little sense in them, did come from the Small businesses were also given credit by Opposition side. the honourable member for Maryborough. That was a bit of a surprise to me, coming Mr. K. J. Hooper: Can I assume-- as it did from that side of the Chamber. How­ ever, he did give credit to people who run The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable smaii businesses. He is certainly unlike some member can assume that he will be outside of the other Opposition members who want soon if he does not behave. only to knock small business. I give the member credit for his comments in that Mr. LEE: Firstly, I would like to answer regard. Maybe he does not speak with a the mem)Jer for Maryborough, who shadows forked tongue as many of his colleagues my portfolio. He had the interests of the do. I thank the honourable member for Government Printing Office at heart when Maryborough for his contribution. I am sure he spoke with similar feelings to my own. that it will do him no harm when it is read He said that the workers there should be by the people of his electorate. praised for the jobs they do. The printers there do very good work under very difficult The honourable member for Mt. l<;a spoke conditions. I can assure the honourable about the Little brothers. No doubt the member that I agree with him. I, too, would first thing the member will show the Little like to see a new building constructed as bwthers wi!I be his speech as it is reported soon as possible. The director, the Govern­ in "Hansard". I am sure they will appreciate ment Printer and myself went overseas what he had to say about them, and he specifically to look at buildings which house will be trying to speed up investigation of printing offices throughout the world. We their solar system. The honourable member have come back with ideas, and I hope that knew a lot about solar systems and I was the employees will be given something of quite interested to hear what he had to say. a reward for the conditions under which The honourable member for Mt. Gravatt they have worked for many years. >poke about small businesses and big busines­ ses. He was absolutely right in what he said. Mr. K. J. Hooper: What are you going to do? Mr. K. J. Hooper: He had a dollar each way. Mr. LEE: The honourable member is so thick in the head that he does not even Mr. LEE: Would the honourable member listen. for Archerfield keep quiet? He has had his I am trying to answer the member in a chance to speak. sane manner and explain to him what we The member for Mt. Gravatt spoke about are doing, because he asked a simple and the fact that small businesses and big 1518 Supply (30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) busines;;es employ 60 per cent of the work­ He ought to be ashamed of himself. It force in Queensland. He therefore suggested also shows that he does not know what he is that pay-roll tax could possibly be lowered, talking about. To say that they are only or some other benefit could be given, par­ involved with migrants from the United King­ ticularly to small businesses. I do not argue dom is absolute rot. The current president with that. of the Good Neighbour Council is a migrant He also very ably pointed out that the from a non-English-speaking country, as is A.L.P. was doing everything within its power also a member of the executive. The newly to destroy small businesses. Their policy is appointed director and one office employee in their handbook, which can be bought for are also migrants from non-English-speaking $5. It is not worth $5, but it can be bought countries. So there are four people; yet for that amount. It can be seen from that he says they do not know what they are handbook that they are out to destroy the talking about. I can assure honourable mem­ way of life as we know it. bers that the future will vindicate the State Government's decision to continue to fund Mr. Fouras interjected. the Good Neighbour Council. We have shown common sense-which is more than Mr. LEE: The member for South Brisbane, the member for South Brisbane spoke this who is very chirpy over there at the moment, afternoon. Wait till the people in his elector­ made a complete and utter idiot of himself ate read what he had to say! in the way that he spoke this afternoon. I had the desire to stop him from making The member for Cunningham has seen a fool of himself, but I thought, "No. He the value of industrial estates and the wonder­ will hang himself. Let him go." He waffled ful conditions that this Government is offer­ on about migrants. He should have more ing industry. He realises that industry is sense. His statement to the Committee was being established on many of the estates all totally inaccurate and only goes to show over Queensland. He is concerned about the his lack of knowledge of the truth about fuel shortage, too, saying that some day we migration and ethnic affairs. will have to make fuel from coal and sugar­ cane. I could not agree more. Until the I should point out to the honourable mem­ day comes when prices rise, it may not be ber and the Committee that the present economically feasible. policy of migration and ethnic affairs was established in 1946, when an agreement was The new member for Redcliffe (Mr. Terry entered into between the Commonwealth White) has an understanding of small busi­ Government and the States. This agreement ness. It was a pleasure to hear his speech. was that the States would be respon&ible for migration from the United Kingdom only, Mr. Davis interjected. and the Commonwealth would be responsible for migration from all other countries as Mr. LEE: He had more to offer than the well as the United Kingdom. member for Brisbane Central. He had enough forethought to say that Mr. Y ewdale: Where did you get that there should be a new motto. What about, brief from? "We make it great in the Sunshine State"? Mr. LEE: From one of my officers-the Mr. K. J. Hooper: That's nice, Norm. man who is in charge of migration. I am quite willing to say that. I have all my Mr. LEE: We might do it. However, the notes here but I intend to read his, with member for Archerfield should not try to which I agree totally. take the credit. It was the member for Red­ This is still the situation, and consequently cliffe who thought about it. We will certainly the implementation of those recommenda­ give consideration to it. tions of the Galbally report that relate to The member for Chatsworth wanted me to ethnic affairs are being implemented in this stop take-overs. I am told on the quiet that State by the Commonwealth Government. he has such large holdings in these companies The honourable member mentioned that that he wants us to give them protection. this was a waste of money. I submit 1hat for The only reason I can see for his remarks the State to come into this area as well would is that he is a capitalist and he wants his certainly be a waste of money. However, holdings protected. notwithstanding this, the State Government The honourable member for Mourilyan has membership of the Migrant Settlement made her usual intelligent speech. She was Council, which supervises the initial settle­ concerned that the department had estab­ ment programme. State facilities at the Eshed an industrial estate at Innisfail on Yungaba Reception Centre are currently land that was not zoned for that purpose, used for courses to train professional people and that it might do so again 1n the future. to understand and assist non-English-speaking I assure her that the department wishes to migrants. comply with the zoning requirements laid The honourable member's comments about down by councils. In the instance to which the Good Neighbour Council can only be she referred, the council did not make a termed disgraceful, as they were directed rezoning, so what occurred was not really towards a large band of dedicated people. the fault af the department. However, it has Supply (30 OCTOBER 1979] (Estimates) 1519 refunded the money to the person con­ the honourable member for Lytton. He cerned although it really was not obliged to asked about the Yandina Industrial Estate do so. Because of the misunderstanding, it and the ginger factory. He also referred did tha:t to maintain a good relationship. to the ponding system that had been approved The honourable member also spoke about by the Maroochy Shire Council. I can the fuel crisis. I believe that the crisis arose assure the honourable member that the largely, though not completely, because of council was responsible for issuing the permit hoarding that took place. I remind honour­ for that faetory. That comment applies to able members that some people had hoarded any factory anywhere in Queensland. We up to two years' supply of fuel. When the always ask the local authority whether we department received specific information can build a factory in its area. Alternatively, about a shortage of fuel in a certain area, we ask the people who want to bui,ld the it got in touch with the fuel company, and factory to ask the local authority. We do in virtua1ly every instance the problem was not go against the wishes of the local overcome. In many cases the problem was council. one of supply, and the department cannot In this instance, we even gave the take action until it is supplied with infor­ Maroochy Shire Council some land for a mation. All Government members acted sewage-treatment plant. We could not be sensibly and did that, so they got along fairly fairer. When the council said that it would well and had their difficulties overcome. allow the factory to be ereoted, we gave it The honourable member for Lytton spoke some land free of cost for sewage-treatment about the Mackay days, the days of the purposes. At no time was a factory estab­ cane-cuHers and the wharfies. He asked lished on a Government industrial estate why we took the work away from the without the consent of the local authority. wharfies. Let me say to him quite plainly We even construct the roads and lay the that the wharfies took the work away from sewage and water mains within our estates. themselves. They refused to work; in fact, We are facing up very well to our they would not have worked if they had respomibilities. been put in an iron lung. I thank the honourable member for South­ In spite of that, the honourable member's port for his words of encouragement. Some speech had a great deal of common sense time ago an A.L.P. member-I think it in it. It was one of the best speeches that was the member for Woodridge-told my I have heard him make for some time. coLleague the Minister for Labour Relations However, during the afternoon I read an that he was a great big dill for buying land article in the "Telegraph" headed "Too good for the Molendinar Industnia1 Estate. It for the workers". It said- is one of the success stories of this State. "Sydney: Bus maintenance engineers The honourable members for Southport and have come up with a novel industrial Surfers Paradise both asked for more land grievance. in their areas. Yet only a few years ago we were severely criticised in this Chamber "They say the N.S.W. Public Transport for going ahead and purahasing that land. Commission's new fleet of buses are too reliable. Mr. Campbell: Mr. D'Arcy said it would "Thirty employees from the commis­ be a white elephant. sion's Chu11ora workshop in Sydney's Mr. LEE: That is right. What a white western suburbs yesterday protested against elephant he turned out to be! the new buses. "They claimed the 500 Mercedes-Benz The honourable member for Nudgee talked models required only one-third as much about small cars. Of course, he read the maintenance as the superseded fleet. article in this morning's news:paper. As well, the member for Cunningham and other "The protest was held at the Wynyard Government members have referred to this terminal in York Street, Sydney, where matter. The member for Nudgee knew that the 500th Mercedes-Benz bus was pre­ Cabinet had made a certain decision on sented to the public." Monday; he heard it on the news either They went on st,rake because buses are not yesterday or this morning. Cabinet decided breaking down. Of course, the honourable that it would continue to buy four-cylinder member's speech will read well during the cars, up to 25 per cent, and have them Lytton election campaign next year. evaluated at the end of a certain period. He spoke about unemployment, but he We are way out in front. knows fuJ,l well that the Government has The member for Nudgee wants us to cut reduced unemployment more than any other back on our usage of oil. I remind him State Government in Australia, and nobody that it was the Whitlam Government that can deny that. He spoke also about the brought drilling for oil to a complete stand­ retiring age. At least the Government of stilL No-one else is to blame. Queensland has reduced the retiring age to The honourable member for Somerset 60 years, which probably is more than other State Governments have done. realises the way in which industrial estates can be decentralised. He brought down a The honourable member for Cooroora deputation from the Esk Shire Council. Its made a most intelligent speech. He members were the most reasonable people answered most of the comments made by I could wish to deal with. It is a pity 1520 Supply (Estimates) [30 OCTOBER 1979] Firearms and Offensive, &c., Bill

that the Brisbane Oity Council does not The honourable member for Woodridge said take a lesson from that council. Tthe that the Department of Industrial Develop­ members of the deputation had good ment was the most important department in manners and were easy to ta1k to. They my pol'tfolio. That was the only intelligent told us that they would construct a road comment he made. Other than that he said for us and lay water mains. Sewerage is nothing with any common-sense in it. When already reticulated to the land that they the honourable member makes a couple of have in mind. Their attitude shows how sensible comments, I must give him credit anxious some people are to get industrial for them. estates. The Brisbane City Council, on the The honourable member for Toowoomba other hand, wants to throw people out of North made a commonsense approach to Brisbane. That is why a great number of the fuel and pollution problems in his area. people are setting themselves up outside the Brisbane area. The honourable member for Surfers Par­ adise is interested in getting additional indus­ The State Stores Board aLlows an extra trial estates in his area, while the honour­ 5 per cent in country areas. That matter able member for \Vavell was worried about was referred to. a ship that was built in Brisbane and how The honourable member for Pine Rivers much money the Government put into it. made some most valid comments. He I can tell him that the Government advanced wants us to buy more land in his electorate no money at all. for an industrial estate. At this stage, a Mr. Austin interjected. fair amount of industrial land is available in his electorate, and we stiH have plenty at Mr. LEE: The Government did not spend Narangba. As private enterprise is doing any money on it. suoh a good job in his area, I do not ,The Government Garage is looking into think we should move into it. I will take buying four-cylinder motor cars. on board what he has to say and look into the matters for him. I thank all honourable members who made a reasonable contribution to the debate. It The honourable member for Everton spoke is good when one's Estimates are debated in about the Government Printer. I point out the Chamber and spoken of so highly. With that Mr. Hampson and I went overseas. I the exception of a few members of the do not think I need say more about that. Opposition who are more decent about it, one cannot usually expect any credit in a It was a pleasure to listen to the honour­ debate on the Estimates, and it is very good able member for Redlands, who spoke in a to get them over. commonsense way. He is a man with a wide vision of industry. He emphasised how neces­ At 9.55 p.m., sary it was to get an industrial estate estab­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! Under the pro­ lished at Redland Bay. On two occasions he visions of the Sessional Order agreed to by has had me down to look at the area. I the House on 9 October, I shall now put should like to see an industrial esta.te estab­ the questions for the Vote under considera­ lished at Redland Bay. I am sure it would tion and the balance remaining unvoted for prove to be one of the most popular indus­ Industry and Administrative Services. trial estates in Queensland. The questions for the following Votes were At least the honourable member for Por,t put, and agreed to- Curtis values the work undertaken in his area. He has enough decency in him to say Industry and Administrative Services­ $ that this Government has done a good and Chief Office, Department of reasonable job in his area. He was critical Commercial and Industrial of some of the delays that have occurred Development 5,110,869 but, unfortunately, delays are inevitable. I do him the honour of saying that, a·t least, Balance of Vote, Consolidated he did not say that work should be stopped. Revenue, Trust and Special Funds and Loan Fund The honourable member for Caboolture, Account 31,310,806 as usual, made a highly intelligent speech, Progress reported. which was good to hear. He knows every businessman in the Narangba Industrial Estate personally. That is something which FIREARMS AND OFFENSIVE WEAPONS many honourable members cannot say about BILL the businessmen in their electorates. I can­ not say it about those in my electorate at SECOND READING Rocklea. I am sure he knows every one of Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister them personally, and realises their value to for Mines, Energy and Police) (9.57 p.m.): him. He knows that there is a tunnel under I move- the Bruce Highway and that the railway line will pass through it. The honourable "That the Bill be now read a second member also referred to our slogan, "Buy time." Queensland made". I can only say that we In presenting this Bill for the second read­ "make things great in the Sunshine State." ing, there are certain points on which I Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979) Weapons Bill 1521

wish to elaborate and for that pmpose I and proper person to possess a concealable propose to go more deeply into the provisions firearm. From this initial inquiry, the appli­ of the legislation than I did on the introduc­ cat'ion will be processed in Brisbane, in the tion of this Bill. Basically the previous firearms section. definitions from the old Act have been Clause 11 makes provision for fingerprints retained. However, certain new ones have to be required from an applicant. It shouJd been proposed for the new legislation. Some be noticed that it is not mandatory that a!re machinery definitions but certain others fingerprints be required. The supply of I wish to expand on. fingerprints would probably only be required The first is the position of authorised where the applicant was not known to local officer. This person wiH be the officer who police or came from interstate or overseas. ha:s overall charge of the issuing of firearm It is most unlikely that any of the present licences in Queensland. He is the officer in members of pistol clubs, for example, wouJd charge of the Technical Services Section, be required to supply fingerprints. They are which includes the Firearms Section. His probably already favourably known to their position as the issuing authority for firearm local police, or else have held licences for licences was previously held by the inspector a number of years. in charge of the Criminal Investigaton With respect to renewals, it is proposed Branch, Brisbane. His position is provided that these may be made by the officer in for under clause 8. charge of police where the applicant resides, It is considered that there should be a con­ who will approve or disapprove the renewal. trol on what are known as conversion units. If renewal is not approved, the whole matter These are kits designed to conveDt a con­ will be referred to the commissioner or cealable firearm from one calibre to another. authorised officer to determine the matter. The kit usually comprises a barrel, magazine Licences are not transferable. Clauses 13, and certain other parts. By the interchange 14 and 15 refer to this. Olf these parts, a .45 calibre pistol, for At present each licence for a concealable example, becomes a .38 calibre pistol, a pistol firearm has to be renewed each year and of a calibre different from that originally involves a considerable amount of paper­ iicensed. Therefore these units are to be work and hours of manpower. It is proposed licensed. in the new Act to extend the currency of Under the new Act the term "dangerous licences to up to two years. Fees shall be article" appears. This definition covers under pro rata according to the currency of the one heading a number of articles which were licence. Time for renewal of licences shall previously dealt with under separate be up to 60 days before the due date. Clause offences. The term "dangerous article" will 16 refers to this. cover items such as machine guns, disguised Provision has been made that where a firearms, flick knives, Molotov cocktails or Hcence fee is paid by a cheque subsequently petrol bombs and Bowen belt knives. The dishonoured, any licence so issued shall be last mentioned is an item of wearing apparel which is actually a knife concealed within null and void. However, provision is made the buckle. It is to be noted that Bowen for such dishonoured cheque to be replaced belt knives are a prohibited import under by cash in lieu. Clause 17 refers to this. Customs Regulations. A further item Endorsement of licences: Licences may be which has recently become available in Aus­ endorsed with special purposes for which tralia is an item known as an electric shock concealable firearms may be used, renewals baton. This is a hand-held device containing and restriction. Endorsements may only be four torch batteries but, because it has a made by the commissioner, authorised officer built-in transformer, it is capable of deliver­ or offi·cer in charge Olf a police station. It ing a shock of between 10,000 and 80,000 shall be an offence for any other person to volts. This is capable of rendering a person make endorsements on licences. unconscious for several minutes. No doubt This will also assist in the control of if the person had a weak heart, death could misuse of licences of concea,lable firearms. result. Such weapons have been placed in For example, if a person holds a licence for a clause known as "dangerous articles", the shooting at a pistol club and is found shoot­ possession of which is prohibited. ing elsewhere, such person could be called The Act has been arranged so that one pro­ on to show cause why his licence should not cedure will apply whenever a l~cence is be revoked. Clause 19 refers to this. required to be obtained. In this manner the Olause 21 relates to the necessity for necessary forms may be standardised, as may licensees to carry their licences with them be all the procedures reievant to a licence, wherever they are carrying their conceal­ that is, the type of licence, conditions to able firearm. However, exemptions from this be imposed, refused to issue, and endorse­ requirement are proposed for primary pro­ ments. ducers on their property, for dea·lers and Oauses 9 and 10 provide for the form of employees, and for employees of financial application and where same is to be lodged. organi~ations such as banks. Clause 11 provides that when a person Clause 22 provides for reporting the loss or makes application for a licence for a con­ theft of a firea~m. There have been circum­ cealable firearm, inquiries are to be made by stances where concealable firearms and/or police to ascertain if the a:pplicant is a fit licences have been stolen or lost and this 1522 Firearms and Offensive (30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill fact has not been reported to the police. There has been an extensiv-: review of With this clause, the onus is cast on the the legislation re,lating to pistol clubs. This licensee to report same. Regulation 19 of is a continually growing sport and con­ the present Act provides for police to be sequently problems have been encountered in advised of loss or theft of a conceal­ some aspects. One such aspect is that able firearm. persons, who would otherwise not qualify Clause 23 provides for revocai'ion of for the issue of an open licence for a licences. This could occur where the licensee concealable firearm, qualify themselves by no longer meets the conditions of his licence. joining a pistol club as a matter of con­ The power of revocation is to be vested in venience to obtain the licence. Thereafter, the authorised officer (who includes the com­ by annual renewal, they retain a licence missioner) so as to restrict the arbitrary use without in fact resorting to any form of of such power. The procedure involves the shooting at the pistol club. The purposes service of a notice and is subject to an to which such firearms are turned include appeal to the Minister. The procedure is to hunting and indiscriminate shooting. be adopted where a licence is revoked, In some instances the proposed legislation becomes void, is cancelled or surrendered as formalises as a standard pattern throughout set out in clause 24. Queensland rules that are already part of Unless specially provided for by the pro­ clubs' constitutions. For example, pro­ visions of the Act, minors under the age visions concerning range officers are already of 18 years shall not be issued with licences to a degree in the rules of some, if not for concealable firearms. However, special all, clubs. Some clubs already serve show­ provision has been made for minors 14 years ,cause notices on their members if they and over to use concealable firearms on consider they are not being active shooters pistol club ranges under superv,ision. and should no longer be in the clubs. Financial organisations such as banks are I look now at some of the proposed dealt with under clause 27. This clause requirements concerning pistol clubs. is the equivalent of section 4 (5). It pro­ vides that licences can be issued in the name Clause 31 refers to a licence to shoot at pisto,J clubs. It provides that no person of financia1l o~ganisations for concealable firearms owned by that organisation. Under shall take part in pistol shooting unless he holds a pistol club shooter's licence or a these provisions employees of the oDganisa­ 1 tion will be aHowed to possess and carry pistol club provisiona,] shooter's licence. The provisional shooter's licence is to enable a ~the concealable firearm in the course of their duties. Such employee must be over person time to decide whether he will take 18 years of age and not be a prohibited up the spmt of ta11get shooting as a hobby. or prevented person. Once he decides to take up the sport on a regular basis he will then be issued with Further, if necessary the organisation can an ordinary pistol club shooter's licence. be required to supply particulars of their A requirement of a pistol club shooter's employees so that an authorised officer can licence is that the applicant be a financial determine whether or not the employee member of the club. Where a member is a fit and proper person to possess and use ceases to be a financial member of a club, a concealable firearm. It shall not be he has to hand in his pistol club shooter's necessary for suoh employees to carry the licence for cancellation. licence whilst they are carrying the actual concealable firearm. Clause 32 sets out what is required in respect of a person who seeks a pistol club Licences for blank-fire concealable fire­ shooter's licence. Basically the applicant arms may be issued to theatrical or sporting has to be a financial member, be able to organisations and organisations such as guide produce a certificate from the club to that dog training schools. When the person effect, and his pistol has to be of a type who holds the licence is transferred, as approved by the club for use en its range. happens frequently in the case of school­ teachers, the licence is transferred to h'is In addition, licences may be issued to the successor. Procedure for this is by way pistol club itself in the name of the dub of notification within 14 days of the event or office bearers of the club. This will to the authorised officer giving the name enable visitors or juniors to shoot on the of the successor provided that person is range with club firearms. The licence for eEgible to hold such licence. Clause 28 club firearms will automatically transfer from refers to that. one governing body to a new governing Antiques and souvenir concealable firearms, body each time there is a change in the souvenir machine-guns or souvenir sub­ governing body of the olub. machine-guns are to be licensed. Souvenir Under this section a new provision has weapons are to be made inoperable, and been introduced which was not adequately are to be produced for inspection each provided for before, that is, a hoider of a two years to show that they are still pistol club shooter's licence may carry his inoperable. Antiques will not be rendered firearm to and from the club range, to the inoperable. It is proposed there should be range of other clubs, to the State border if only an initial fee for antiques and souvenirs the licensee is travelling interstate, and use and that the licences not be restricted as to the firearms of other club members on a the period of time of currency. club range. Firearms and Offensive (30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill 1523

Clause 33 makes provision for a person be responsible for the conduct of the day's over the age of 14 years to be issued with shooting, for safety on the range, in addition what is called a provisional licence for a to any other duties that the governing body pistol club. This entitles the licensee to use may designate to him. The position of chief a firearm of another club member or the range officer is already provided for in the club's own firearms on the range of the constitutions of most, if not all, clubs. pistol club. Subject to agreement between the club Clause 34 makes provision for visitors from and financial organisations concerned, pro­ overseas or other States who may lawfully vision has been made for members of finan­ possess a concealable firearm in their own cial organisations to practise shooting on the State or country to carry a firearm whilst range of the club. By having the provision in Queensland. The licence will be clearly for practice on pistol club ranges by employ­ endorsed "Visitor's Licence" and will be ers of financial organisations, it is hoped valid for three months. ,that perhaps with the assistance of pistol Clause 35 is a new provision dealing with clubs a measure of responsibility may be what are to be called restricted firearms. imparted to such persons as regards safety At present two particular models of fire­ in the handling of concealable firearms. arms come within this category. They are the "Boys" antitank rifle .55 calibre and Pistol clubs are to be for the sport of the Granatbusche 7.92 millimetre antitank target shooting only, and for this purpose rifle. These rifles are not being banned but the secretary is to advise the authorised rather their possession is to be restricted to officer what courses of fire are to be con­ persons who have a licence for them. They ducted by the club. Over recent years courses are to be licensed on a format similar to of fire have developed that can only be said that of a concealable firearm. Restriction on to border on what could be termed suitable the possession of these rifles is considered for terrorist training in some of the overseas necessary as they are of a type that fire clubs, and it is considered some control armour-piercing shells and, in the hands of could be exercised in this regard locally. the criminal element, could become very Members who attend at a pistol club range dangerous weapons. They are capable of will be required to possess a member's attend­ penetrating steel plate from a considerable ance card on which will be noted the place distance. at which and the date on which such member Clause 36 makes a provision for the issue took part in competition or practice shooting. of a special licence to a person over the age When the member comes to renew his pistol of 14 years to use a firearm in certain cir­ club shooter's licence he will produce the cumstances. The firearm is not to be a con­ card, which will indicate whether or not he cealable firearm. The principle behind this is an active shooter. The use of this card provision is to allow the son of a primary will save the club secretary a considerable producer, for example, to carry a rifle to amount of paperwork. destroy vermin or decrepit livestock in drought-time. Safety of the public generally Clauses 55 to 57 deal with shooting gal­ would be one of the prime considerations in leries, an area that was not previously pro­ relation to such an application under this vided for in the Firearms Act. Other States clause. have legislation governing the construction Clauses 37 to 42 contain provisions relating of and general safety features of such shoot­ to persons who carry on the business of ing galleries. It has been decided that, as live dealing in firearms. Each such person will ammunition is used in a number of these be licensed and his premises will be of a galleries, some control should be exercised, standard suitable to the authorised officer. particularly in the area of those using live Each person will be required to keep registers ammunition. of his transactions in relation to concealable The use of concealable firearms with live firearms, conversion units or restricted fire­ ammunition is prohibited in such galleries; arms, and to furnish an annual return each .22 calibre will be the largest calibre allowed. year of the concealable firearms he has in No person under the age of 14 years is to stock. Provision has been made to enable a dealer to display firearms on the range of a be allowed to use a firearm in such shooting pistol club for the purposes of sale. Security galleries. The safety of the general public of concealable firearms held in stock will is to be of the utmost importance where be of importance. live ammunition is being used. Clauses 43 to 54 contain provisions relating Clauses 58 to 61 provide for what is called to pistol clubs. It will be necessary for a a prohibited person. Clause 58 is the general club to be approved by the authorised officer prohibition section, which will involve police. before it conducts pistol shooting on any Where it is considered for some particular range. The range will have to be of an reason that a person should not possess a approved standard of construction and not firearm, any commissioned officer may issue be modified or altered unless approval has a prohibition order prohibiting that person been given. Each governing body is to from possessing any firearm, conversion unit appoint a chief range officer, not necessarily or ammunition. Such prohibition order will the same person, each day there is official have effect throughout the State. Under the club shooting. The chief range officer will Act it is restricted to a particular district. 1524 Firearms and Offensive [30 ()crOBER 1979] Weapons Bill

In addition to prohibition orders that may New provisions aimed at preserving the be issued by commissioned officers, Clause privacy and safety of persons on private 61 makes provision for persons convicted by property have been introduced. Clause 72 courts of serious offences in which violence will make it an offence for any person to is an element, or for certain drug offences, discharge any firearm or spear gun on private to become prohibited persons. property unless he has the permission of the owner or occupier to do so; nor shall a It shall be an offence for a prohibited per­ person discharge a firearm from a public son to possess any firearm or conversion unit place into private property. or for any other person to supply firearms, conversion units or ammunition to a pro­ Provision is made for the owner or hibited person. occupier who finds a person offending, that is, discharging a firearm, to detain the Clauses 62 and 63 make provision for those offender and hand him into the custody of persons who are to be known as "prevel!-ted a police officer to be dealt with according persons". This is a new term and outhnes to law. that persons suffering from mental illnesses, or persons under the age of 17 years, are It is to be pointed out that the provision prevented from using or possessing firearms. for the property owner to detain persons There is special provision elsewhere for per­ found shooting is not a mandatory section. sons under 17 years of age to use or possess It says that the property owner "may" firearms in certain circumstances. detain, not that he shaLl or must detain. No set rules can be laid down for each particular Clause 64 and clause 84 contain the pro­ occasion. Common sense has to prevail as visions relating to the various offences that to whether in view of the circumstances a may be committed in relation to the new property owner would detain. Firearms and Offensive Weapons BilL Clause P·resent re~trict1ons on the carrying and 64 sets out a general penalty. use of firearms on a Sunday have been Clause 65 deals with what is called a removed. serious offence or, more simply, where there Clause 71 places the onus on persons who are terms of aggravation. It carries a heavier possess firearms to take a!ll reasonable pr~­ penalty. An example of what is termed a cautions with their firearms, to keep them m serious offence would be a person's having a place of safety so as to prevent unauthor­ possession of a concealable firearm that is ised persons from gaining access to them. not licensed and to which he has fitted a It is hoped that this requi·rement may help silencer. Silencers are prohibited completely. to cut down on accidents caused through Another example is a person's possessing firearms being left in places that are acces­ a firearm with an intent to cause damage to sible to chi>ldren. property. Clause 74 is designed to prevent the sale The offence provisions contain the same or supply of firearms or ammunition to per­ offences as presently appear in the Act, but sons who are under the influence of liquor additional offences are incorporated. or a drug, and it shall be an offence for a Clause 67 prohibits the possession or use person to carry or use a firearm whilst he of protective body-vests except in certain is under the influence of Equor or drugs. cases. Among the persons who would be Olauses 73 and 75 provide that a person entitled to use them are police, security and shall not discharge a firearm in a public place bank officers, visiting dignatories or members without lawful excuse, nor shall a person of Parliament. Protective body-vests pos­ carry loaded firearms, spear guns or cross sessed by members of the criminal element bows in a public place in such a manner that would tend to encourage armed confrontation he may be likely to cause injury to himself with authority, particularly in bank hold-ups. or others or damage to property. It is therefore proposed that their possession be restricted to approved persons. The provisions of clause 75 are designed towards the overaLl safety of both the person Clause 68 deals with persons who have pos­ in possession of a firearm in a public place session of dangerous articles. Dangerous and other members of the public. Anyone articles include machine guns, grenades, dis­ who carries a firearm in a public place wrll guised firearms, flick knives, Molotov cock­ need to ensure that it is not loaded, the bolt tails, and explosive devices. Previously these removed where practicable and the firearm were split up into separate offence sections contained in a sheath. in a somewhat haphazard manner. A new provision, clause 77, is to provide Clause 69 prohibits possession of explosives. for the commission of an offence by a The possession of detonators, fuse or explos­ person who obtains or who attempts to ives of a type used in blasting or mining obtain possession of a concealable firearm, operations shall be an offence unless the conversion unit or restricted firearm by fraud offender shows that he has a reasonable or deceit. Instances have been repor.ted of excuse for having possession of them. This persons having gone to dealers and attempt­ is designed to deal with criminals found in ing to obtain a concealable fi·real'm by possession. A person who would have a falsely pretending that they had been granted reasonable excuse would be a quarry-operator. a licence. Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill 1525

Olause 81 is a new area, making it an observes a conceaJlable firearm in such place. offence to have possession of replica firearms It would be ludicrous that he should with­ in public places. Of recent times there have dmw, obtain a warrant under the Firearms been a number of offences committed using Act and return. NaturaUy, if the conceal­ replica firea:rnns. It shall not be an offence able firearm was not licensed, it would be for a person to have a replica firearm in his gone. home. Clause 91 makes provision for the issue of Clauses 85 to 95 deing fire­ As previously stated it is a considerable arms. This is an area that is not adequately number of years since any overhaul of this covered under the present legislation. Clause Act was carried out. In its present form 88 gives police power in situations involving it is presented in a disjointed fashion. There seige or an emergency to enter places, search is insufficient power for police to deal satis­ offenders found therein, seize firearms being factorily with present-day offences such as used and to detain persons found therein. seige situations that are becoming more pre­ Because suoh a provision is designed to deal valent. The new legislation is designed to with emergencies, it is considered desirable encourage young people to become aware that in such situations police should be able of firearm safety and to participate in super­ to enter premises without first having to vised shooting. Restrictions are not designed obtain a warrant. If police were forced to to be oppressive to sporting shooters. How­ first obtain a warrant, it could well be that ever, the overall control of concealable fire­ in the rime involved in getting a warrant a arms and the safety of the public generally person may be killed whose life could per­ is of the utmost importance. haps have been saved. Now, Mr. Hewitt, I wish to comment Oause 89 provides authority for police to on certain matters raised by honourable mem­ inspect the books of dealers relating to transactions involving concealable firearms bers during the introductory stage of the (as at present), to examine attendance regis­ Bill. It is not the intention of this Gov­ ters at pistol clubs, to inspect pistol club ernment to license all types of firearms. It ranges and to examine shooting galleries to would be almost useless to try to stop pre­ see that they conform to approvals therefor. meditated crime by such methods. Clause 90 provides that where a police Control of the use of firearms through officer is lawfully in premises in connection the control of sale of ammunition would with any matter and he, as a result, has be impossible to carry out. The owner reasonable gwunds to suspect that a breach of a firearm would only need to obtain of the Firearms Act is being committed, he ammunition from anywhere interstate. may search or carry out any action neces­ Queensland cannot legislate to prevent the sary to give effect to the provisions of the sale of ammunition by stores situated inter­ Firearms Act. An example could be where state to persons resident in Queensland. the police officer has entered premises law­ Furthermore, with the basic tools a per­ fully to serve a summons or by virtue of a son can make as much ammunition for warrant under some other legislation and he himself or for others as he feels like making. 1526 Firearms and Offensive (30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill

lVIention was made of graziers using guns between 18 and 48 years. The only way to detain illegal shooters. Nowhere in the such a scheme could be introduced here firearms legislation has such a thing been would be if compulsory national service for suggested. Clause 72 (3) provides authority all young persons were to be introduced. for a property owner to detain an illegal Such a thing is a Commonwealth, not a shooter. The word used is "may" not State, matter. "shall" detain. The honourable member also spoke of the Reference was made to the fact that duties of range officers. Most clubs already there is no requirement of a minimum time set out these duties. In the main, the Bill's that an applicant must be a member of a provisions formalise those duties and seek club before he is recommended for a con­ to make them standard throughout the State. cealable firearm licence. This is not strictly I commend the Bill to the House correct in this aspect as some clubs at least have a probationary period of three months. Mr. VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (10.32 p.m.): It is understood that the Sporting Shooters Having now had the opportunity of perus.ing Association of Australia (Brisbane Branch) the contents of the Bill, I want to preface provides that a person must be a member my remarks by saying that I am bitterly of the association for 12 months before disappointed that the Bill does not include he can join the pistol section of the branch. the licensing of persons who want to own rifles, shot-guns and the like. The Bill is A suggestion was made that firearms supposed to regulate the purchase, possession, should be removed from the possession of use, carrying, and sale of firearms, etc. persons who have been convicted by courts for certain offences, or they should be pro­ The Bill defines a firearm as­ hibited from possessing firearms. This is an "(a) a gun or other weapon- excellent idea. Persons who have been con­ "(i) that is capable of propelling a pro­ victed of offences involving violence should jectile by means of an explosive; not be allowed to possess firearms. The "{ii) that is capable of propelling a pro­ same argument applies to dangerous drugs. jectile by any other means and which if We do not want a drug-affected person run­ used in a normal manner is capable of ning around with a firearm. causing bodily harm." The honourable member for Toowoomba Even a gun or weapon that is capable of North spoke of the need for persons to be discharging a blank-1ire cartridge is defined taught safe handling of firearms. This is a as a firearm. However, the contents of the desirable suggestion, and for this purpose Bill do not contain any provision relating the age at which a person may shoot on a to rifles or shot-guns. rifle club or pistol club range under super­ vision has been reduced to 14 years. The It is my opinion that the Government is age at which cadets may shoot on a range avoiding its responsibilities in this regard has been reduced to 13 years. It does not because it fears there could be some political allow them to own firearms at that age but backlash from some vested interests who allows them to use the club firearms. Per­ apparently have significant influence over the haps rifle and pistol clubs would be willing Government, and the National Party in par­ to make it known that they would teach ticular. While some Liberal members of the young persons firearms safety. Government have commented publicly about the legislation and have spoken against the The honourable member for Bundaberg Bill, and while some will no doubt speak suggests that there has been no contact again, it should not be forgotten that this between police and various organisations legislation has been approved by the joint which have an interest in shooting. This is Government parties and, irrespective of what not correct. There has been a considerable the Liberals say, they are party to this legis­ amount of contact with organisations, some lation and must accept their share of the on a personal basis and some on a written responsibility for its being here in its present basis. One of the most recent was the Bow form. Hunters' Club concerning longbows. Their suggestion was received and has been incor­ When he introduced the Bill, the Minister porated into the Bill. Some clubs have even said that when it became obvious to the supplied copies of their constitutions. In Government that the present Firearms Act fact, one organisation even went to the needed to be reviewed and amended the views trouble of supplying the Police Department and opinions of various organisation's, sport­ with a bound book of considerable size in ing clubs and others who might be affected which various submissions, comparisons, etc., by the changes in the legislation were sought. were set out. I might add this book has been While it may be true that views and opinions of assistance. Certain provisions relating to were sought, it is quite apparent that the the chief range officer were selected from very strong and sincere views of some the constitution of a club. organisations-! particularly refer to the Aus­ tralian Bank Employees' Union-were dis­ The honourable member for Townsville regarded. I am aware that for many years mentioned Switzerland and how young people that union, on behalf of its members, has there are trained in the use of firearms. been advocating stricter control of firearms That is all very well, but Switzerland has because of the increase in the incidence of compulsory military service for persons aged armed hold-ups of banks. Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill 1527

While the Minister in his introductory I cannot see that too much consideration was remarks said that basically the aim of the given to the situation in other States as far legislation was to protect the public from as rifles and shot-guns are concerned. the criminal element, the fact is that the Bill in this regard is little different from the While the Government is apparently con­ existing Act. While the Bill covers conceal­ cerned with the concealable firearm, I believe able firearms, "dangerous articles", anti-tank it is being negligent in not taking into account rifles, etc., since it does not cover the pur­ the extent to which rifles and shot-guns are chase, posses9ion, use, carrying, and sale of used in homicide and suicide cases, and the rifles and shot-guns it falls far short of the number of accidental fatalities and woundings mark. The fact is that the majority of crim­ that occur as a result of their misuse. At inals are not using such articles as are the introductory stage I referred to the covered in the Bill; they are using rifles and number of people who died as a result of shot-guns, which are easy to obtain. firearms. I produced an article from the newspaper of that very day, which indicated As I said in my speech at the introductory that 127 people had been killed by firearms. stage, in recent years rifles and shot-guns I read tragic Press accounts of firearm fat­ have been used in the majority of armed alities, which clearly illustrated the negligent hold-ups in Queensland. I know that bank manner in which firearms are handled by staff are not as concerned about the obviously careless and inexperienced persons. experienced criminal, who we all acknowledge I pointed out how easy it is for virtually has access to concealable firearms, as they anyone to purchase a high-powered rifle or are about the novice doing his first or second shot-gun and the ammunition to go with it. "job" after having purchased a rifle or a shot­ I recall that I produced advertisements from gun and ammunition off the shelf of some supermarkets which were advertising even local supermarket. .30 M1 repeating carbines. I might point out The Minister has said that the message that recently I saw in the window of a in the legislation for the criminal element second-hand shop in one of the main streets of Mackay a .30 Ml repeating carbine, with is that if they carry a gun they will go a magazine, at a very reduced price, and to gaol. also a .22 rifle. They were accessible to Certainly the legislation prohibits certain anybody who walked in off the street. persons from possessing any firearm and pro­ I pointed out that more than half the vides that a person who contravenes or fails shooting victims and more than half the to comply with any provision of the legisla­ people responsible for shooting accidents tion is liable to a maximum fine of $400 or were under 20 years of age. I emphasise that six month's imprisonment for a first offence, point. Statistics and research show that and up to $800 and/or 12 months' imprison­ more than half the shooting victims-I think ment for a second or subsequent offence. the figure was about 53 per cent-and more While this will be a deterrent to some of than half the people responsible for shooting the criminal element, the fact is that persons accidents-! think the figure was about 54 who have decided to hold up a bank, a T.A.B. per cent-were under 20 years of age. agency or the like, will not be deterred by such penalties when they are prepared to In the last seven days, a 17-ye

Dr. Lockwood: I bet they didn't know. I move now to an incident which occurred last Saturday morning. It illustrates another Mr. VAUGHAN: They had an idea. There point that I am emphasising. Early last Sat­ was a young salesman behind the counter. urday two young people had a very lucky He did not know the law in relation to the escape. Again, it may be alleged that this mat­ age of persons who purchase firearms. I ter is sub judice as somebody has been charged said, "What do you do about the identifica­ in relation to it. The newspaper headline tion of a person? Are you aware there is read: "Mystery West End gunshots". For­ an age limit?" He said, "Yes, a person must tunately a person has been detained in rela­ be over 18 years of age." I said, "Do you tion to this matter. That person is alleged ask for any identification?" He said, "No, to have fired seven shots in the early hours but we do get them to sign a book." I said, of Saturday morning into a vehicle, for no "Where is the book?" From underneath apparent reason. He went up to the car of some the counter he produced a common, every­ people who were driving home in the early day exercise book in which there was a list hours of Saturday morning and pumped seven of names. I said, "How do you know that bullets into it. Once again, it was a .22 rifle. the person who signs that name in the book On a previous occasion I think the honour­ is in fact that person?" He said, "As long able member for Sherwood referred to the as they sign the book, that is all we are prevalent use of .22 rifles. I think 64 per required to have." cent was the figure quoted for the incidence of their involvement; yet they can be bought There is no control over that sort of thing off the shelf for as little as $45. in the existing legislation, and there is still no control over it in the proposed Bill. I Surely the Government must take notice foreshadow here and now that it is the inten­ of these incidents and act accordingly. Here tion of those on this side of the House to are four separate incidents all involving the endeavour to amend the Bill to try to pre­ smallest and cheapest rifle on the market vent the sort of thing that has happened in but which can, with the high-velocity the last few days. ammunition that is available, be among the most deadly. A 16-year old youth on the Gold Coast was killed by his own .22 rifle that was According to statistics, 137,000 Queens­ reportedly being held by a friend. landers own a total of 146,400 rifles, 39,300 shot-guns, 19,100 air rifles and an unknown Dr. LOCKWOOD: I rise to a point of quantity of hand-guns. That is absolutely order. I think the honourable member will ama1ling. We can obtain statistics telling find that the matter is sub judice as a person us the number of rifles, shot-guns and air has been charged. rifles (which do not have to be licensed), but we cannot ascertain how many hand­ Mr. SPEAKER: I would ask the member guns there are-and a hand,gun is the only to respect that point of view. weapon that has to be licensed. [ cannot understand it. It is amazing to me that Mr. VAUGHAN: If a matter is sub judice, we cannot find out how many hand-guns I do not believe it would be reported on the there are. front page of tonight's "Telegraph". Having regard to the facts and figures that I referred to in my introductory speech Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Do you know if and those that >I have mentioned in this it is sub judice? Has a date been set down speech, and bearing in mind the pressures for hearing? on society today and ,the situation that is developing in rthis State, and in fact rhrough­ Dr. LOCKWOOD: It is a criminal matter, out Australia, I believe that the purchase, not a civil matter. possession, use, carrying and sale of all firearms should be strictly controlled. Mr. V AUGHAN: The case illustrates exactly what I am talking about. The report However, notwithstanding all of the facts is that the lad who was shot went down to and figures, I have no doubt whatsoever ,the local chain store and put a $70 .22 that the Government wiU not accept reality magnum rifle on lay-by. He arranged to pick­ and wm not agree to incor:porate provisions it up at a later date. He was under age. to license the owners of rifles and shot­ Obviously the local chain store did not ask guns in the :legiSilation before us. As I him for proof of his age. He was allowed said on the introduction of the Bill, I firmly to put a $70 .22 magnum on lay-by. He believe that all persons who want to own subsequently took delivery of it and went a firearm should be required to obtain a home and, within an hour or so of picking licence and should be required to undertake up the rifle, he was shot when the pair of a course on the operation and maintenance them were obviously handling it. That bears of each rifle they own, with particular out what I said earlier. More than half tlie emphasis on safety procedures. shooting victims and more than half the I notice that the legislation contains a people responsible for shooting accidents are provision that a person who applies for under 20 years of age. Under existing legis­ a concealable firearm must undertake a lation no person under the age of 17 years test. I agree that, if people want to own is allowed to have or handle a firearm. a firearm, they should at :least know the Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons IJi/1 1529 basic fundamentals of safety. Fortunately, or more rifles and shot-guns. I am not speak­ I had the opportuni,ty of doing my National ing of people who are bona fide collectors. Service in 1956. One of the things the A person living quite near my home owns Army !impresses upon its recruits-! am sure about ten .303s and a couple of .22s. There that all the services do-is safety. From is no need for that. In my opinion, there the time one enters the service, one is should be a special licence for bona fide not allo~ved to fire a rifle-not one round­ collectors. It should state that they are until after three or four ,weeks' 'training entitled to own a certain number of rifles in handling, operation and safety procedures. or guns, and each of those should be listed on the licence and a record kept of them. However, to refer once more to those reported cases, in this State apparently a I have referred already to the concern person, even under 17, can walk into a that I and other honourable members on supermarket and buy a high"powered, repeat­ this side of the House have about the ease ing rifle--some of them are very easily with which people can obtain rifles, and converted to automatic fire-and all the I have dealt briefly with the overall pro­ ammunition to boot, and walk out on the visions of the Bill. I understand that the street or drive out into the country. We clauses will not be dealt with tonight, and all know what happens on country roads. I shall reserve detailed comment till the I think it was the member for Cunningham Committee stage. who said during the introductory debate that an area should be set aside for week­ However, I wish to refer to the pro­ end shooters who want to blaze away. One vision relating to replicas. On reading the only has to drive along the highways in Bill, I would assume that anybody who owns this State to see the damage done to roadside or has in his possession a replica that may signs. Some of them have been so badly be considered to be a reasonable facsimile blasted that they do not have any paint left of a concealable firearm is in breach of on them. They are aimed at by people the Act. I point out to honourable members who are hching to fire the rifles they that at the Brisbane Exhibition one could have so easily purchased in this State. Some buy a very realistic .38 snub-nosed revolver. are extremely high.,powered and dangerous It fired not the old paper caps but caps rifles. that one bought on a card. One broke the caps off and fitted six of them into the I return to the topic of safety procedures. revolving chamber. When the gun was fired, ':Dhe Brll contains provisions about people it sounded like a real firearm. I venture carrying rifles. Without looking at the to say that even a toy such as that, which Bill, I believe it provides that if a rifle could be purchased at the Brisbane Exhibi­ is to be carried in a public place, the tion, would come within the provisions of person must remove the bolt and carry out the Bill. certain other procedures. cl venture to say that some of these people ,would not know Recently I saw on a card in a shop how to get the bolt out of the rifle. How in Mackay an almost exact replica of a .38 the dickens are they going to be able hand-gun, and I should say that the pro­ to comply with the legislation we have visions of the Bill would also outlaw that. before us

the range of the projectile. A .303 pro­ to be blown off the front steps down to the jectile has a very long range, in the order of front gate with a great gaping hole where 7 miles. Even the humble .22 has a range his gut used to be. of over a mile. The very high velocity small­ bore rounds do not have a long range but The police are concerned about firearms. have a tremendous amount of energy at Police officers get it right in the gut or the chest. There is only one way to remedy it. short range. Unless steps are taken to have the document­ Mr. Dmis: I do not think this Bill deals ary evidence of the right of possession taken with that sort of thing. from people who have committed crimes of violence, or are alcoholics or of unstable mental condition, we will lose more police. Dr. LOCKWOOD: The honourable mem­ ber may not be concerned about these things, Those people do not deal in concealables. but it is in this way that people are accident­ They go to the stores and, without licences, ally shot. they buy rifles. As fast as the police take them off them, they go to another store or AltlHJugh there may be some amend­ another town where they are not known. ments to the Bill before us, the pro­ The Minister can conjure up in his own visions contained in clauses 10 to 24 must mind how many gun shops a person drives be applied to long arms-the rifles and shot­ past in an hour's drive out of Brisbane­ guns. I say that because under an Army hundreds and hundreds of them. The police provision a person who has demonstrated his cannot notify them all. I venture to suggest unsuitability to bear arms does not bear that the Minister might be in trouble if arms; they are take.n away from him. In he circulated a photograph of various people civilian life, a great many people who are to all stores and said, "Do not serve this person." I believe that a clause such as I uns,i1itable to bear arms can still procure outlined is required. I think the Hon. T. G. them. Newbery was right when he tried to have it In my introductory speech, I mentioned implemented back in 1975. a man in Toowoomba who, despite having I believe that emphasis should also be had one mental certificate hung on him, placed on the possession of silencers-and was still able to purchase firearms. The particularly a silencer and a concealable police thought that they had done a great firearm. We should be considering a penalty job by taking one lot off him. However, of something in the order of 10 to 15 years' there is no \Vay that dealers in gun shops, gaol. I do not say that lightly. I have sporting shops, chain stores, second-hand already referred to the article in "The stores or even people selling firearms through Bulletin" of 22 May 1979. It is an article about the newspaper could know by meeting that .22-calibre killers, and mentions a .22 pistol person that he was a prohibited person. fitted with a silencer shooting a very tiny Prohibition does not work in reverse. Once bullet-the .22 short-going "pop", and some­ a person is prohibited and takes a firearm body is dead. The article refers to a police again, he has committed a breach. But there surveillance team of two who heard two is nothing to stop him from purchasing very faint pops. They suspected nothing. another firearm in another town from another The person they were guarding in America dealer who has not been warned of the pro­ was very dead, with two bullets in his head. hibition order. Anyone who has a concealable firearm and a The peCYpie \Vho were most at risk in the silencer has it for only one reason: to com­ incident I mentioned at the introductory mit a crime. A silencer indicates major stage were the neighbours, because that man crime. I for one would support very real firmly believed, and would not be dissuaded penalties of 10 to 15 years. from that belief, that a 12-gauge star-crimped If a criminal has a concealable firearm shell was a blank. He could not understand and a silencer that does not fit and his mate it. He would not believe it. He was psychotic has a concealable firearm and a silencer that and mentally ill but still had the right to does not fit and the two marry up, I think buy a firearm. When that rifle was taken off they should both be given 15 years. Not him, there was no notice that he had to only are they dabbling and dealing in con­ show that he could not purchase a firearm. cealable firearms; they are also acting in I repeat that the failure to display a pro­ collusion. As I said, it is for crime, and for hibition order does not prevent the pur­ major crime in particular. The crime for chase of firearms. The system will not work which the weapons are carried is not hold-up; in reverse gear. It will only work in forward it is murder. gear-when a person has to display a licence io procure a firearm. In my opinion, serious consideration should be given to the use of long arms in The person at risk next after the neigh­ major crime, particularly hold-ups. In Great bours was the young policeman. It is always Britain, where licences are required for long a young policeman who goes to handle these arms, there is only one-fifth the nu~her of matters. It is not a senior sergeant, inspector armed hold-ups of banks that occur m Aus­ or other high-ranking officer. It is a con­ tralia. In this country, there are 7.5 armed stable-a one-striper or a two-striper. The hold-ups of banks per 1,000,000 population; risk he ran if this man had persisted was in Great Britain there are 1.5. No•one 1534 Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill would be so naive as to suspect, or to dogs or a number of other factors that are believe for one minute, that if the licensing completely foreseeable. Many people have of long firearms were introduced now the not had the training in firearms that would figure here would immediately revert to 1.5. genuinely enable them to obtain a licence. However, the statistics in the report that I read indicated that the rate in Australia The danger is always present. People who is increasing. Unless a start is made some­ are trained can see it; people who are sober where-and this State would be a good place can see it; but other people cannot see it. in which to start-and all States eventually I know of people who were shot with guns follow, the trend will become worse. In that "were not loaded". Until people who five or six years, it might be 15, 20 or 30 have the right to have firearms respect that per 1,000,000 population. Unless we make right, and always ensure that their firearms a start on licensing of long arms, including are unloaded and properly cleaned before rifles and shot-guns, the figure will certainly they are put away, we will continue to have increase. trouble. Certainly, anyone can now buy a shot-gun, It cannot be said that all murders and other and there would still be a big reserve of crimes of violence are committed with guns. shot-guns in the community. However, the Certainly some murders are committed with loose firearms, the forgotten firearms, would knives. There is a limit on how far we can gradually be taken up, and the figure would go, so we should not try to licence knives. be contained at its present level. It might Nevertheless, a knife in the hands of some­ flatten out at a slightly higher level after a one who is used to handling knives can be year or two, and then, with the passage of an extremely dangerous weapon. time, as firearms became ancient, rusted, It needs to be told again and again that neglected, worn out, and so on, there would the simple .22 calibre rifle has a tremendous gradually be a downturn in the figure. Unless force. The .22 shorts, such as the American action is taken along the lines I have sug­ pistols, are extremely lethal. They have gested, the number of crimes involving the tremendous energy and the bullets can do a use of long arms will continue to rise. great deal of damage inside a person.. The From my own experience as a Government simple B.B. caps and C.B. caps can kill, as medical officer, I should say that people can .22 ratshot. Thev are extremely lethal. who are mentally ill have too ready an access A person who wants· to become licensed to to firearms, and they will commit suicide have a weapon must understand the extent on the spur of the moment. Unfortunately, of its fire power. the honourable member for Nudgee was not A survey that was conducted showed that quite correct in what he said. It is not the approximately 90.9 per cent of all shooting staff of the hospitals on whom they use accidents were due to the fact that the the weapons; most commonly they use them person handling the firearm had absolutely on the ones they love most, their very no skill at all in handling it or was inade­ close relatives and friends. Without naming quately trained. That can be remedied only the persons involved, I refer the honourable by insisting that a person must. have the member to a suicide in Toowoomba who basic training in the required skills before first murdered a family of six, and to he is given a licence. That applies to motor another person who read of it, kept the cars, which are more powerful lethal weapons clipping from the newspaper, and then killed than firearms, and it should apply to fire­ a family of three and herself. arms. One of the factors that we have not yet The licence to possess a firearm is not an learnt to cope with is copy-cat crime, and unqualified licence to wield a lethal weapon; it is especially prevalent in crimes of it is a qualified licence. It is not a right; it violence. Suicide is no exception; neither is a privilege. As the Minister and his pre­ is murder. A .22 calibre weapon is more decessors have always said, a driver's licence than adequate for suicide, and its use is is not a right but a privilege. So it is with extremely common. In the case of persons a licence to have a firearm. who have a serious mental illness, I should No-one would suggest that a person without like to see a notification go to the police skill in the control of a motor car should giving details of the illness. They could then be allowed drive a motor car. Likewise, no­ check, and if that person did have a licence one should suggest that a person unskilled for any long arms or had any long arms in the handling of a rifle should be allowed in his possession, they could be removed. to own one. A motor car and a rifle must Although most mental illness is now curable, be looked at in the same light. A licence the person suffering from it may no'! believe that at the time. to own a firearm is a privilege, and until we regard it as a privilege and not il right, we I have seen accidental deaths caused by will continue to have deaths. We will have .22 calibre rifles, and it should be clearly deaths by way of suicide, by way of acci­ understood that the common little .22 pea­ dental killing and as the result of sheer shooter will put a bullet clean through a neglect. Holden car and then through a man. A Again I ask the House to look at the need great many accidental deaths result from to include in the Bill a clause that will enable people having taken alcohol, having untrained the Minister to insist that there be a licence Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill 1535 for all firearms. That is absolutely essential. these firear.-ms are of the number of policemen who are killed, so easily and readily available. Indeed, the it is in their interests to see that licences secretary of the Police Union said further- are introduced in this State. "We say every firearm in the State should Another Press article on 22 January 1978 be licensed and registered so that police has the heading "Pollies in fight over gun at all times know their location and owner­ laws". This is a continuing saga; it is like ship. 'A policeman's life is on the limb "Blue Hills". The article reads- at all times,' Mr. Callaghan said." "A major political storm is brewing Further down in the article the following within the Queensland coalition govern­ appears- ment over firearm control. "United Graziers' Association oresident (Mr. John Heussler) said yesterday· registra­ "But there is a strong anti-control lobby, tion of the person rather than the firearm made up mostly of National Party mem­ was preferable." bers in country electorates. If the president of the United Graziers' 'Why should we have to pay for some­ Association agrees to the registr-ation of thing that's always been our right? The the owner, I do not see where the major city-dwelling Liberals would not know one opposition to that comes from, except per­ end of a rifle or shot gun from the haps from the National Firearms Council. other'." The president of that association wrote a Indeed, that may be the case, but we know letter to the editor of "The Courier-Mail" extremely well that people are being killed on 17 August 1979. Of course, that letter and threatened with weapons simply because brings forward all the furphies which are there are so many mentally sick people in perpetuated by the anti-gun-law lobby. I want society who have access to firearms. I will to know what the National Firearms Council detail a case involving that situation later. is. Is its president a paid lobbyist on behalf The next Press cutting I have is dated of the gun manufacturers and the gun out­ 18 November 1978. It mentions that the lets? If he is, he has done his job very gun-control law will be delayed until March well. I object to the way in which he and says that Mr. Camm has explained telephoned members of Parliamertt and that he has been working with the Police demanded to know our opinions. He did 1538 Firearms and Offensive [30 OCTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill not say what this National Firearms Council before Panliament this week. She sa,id that was or whether he was a paid lobbyist. He she was deeply concerned because her hus­ got quite stroppy when I asked him questions band, who is estranged from her and receiv­ back. He did nat want me to ask him any­ ing treatment for a mental condition, had thmg. He wanted to know what my reaction gone out to the A Mart chain store, bought was. a rifle and .was threatening on the telephone Th~ anti-gun-law lobby perpetuates such to come and shoot her and her children. furph1es as "cars ki'll" and "bikes kill," etc. I Dr. Lockwood: There is no ,Jaw that will pomt out that the drivers of those vehicles help her. are licensed but, indeed, there is no control over their purchase. A furphy perpe,tuated Mrs. KYBURZ: There is nothing she can by the Lea.gue of Rights in this State is do about it. that if licences were instituted and guns were licensed, if the Communists got control of Dr. Lockwood: All she can do is have a Queensland-of course, there is a Commun­ loaded rifle herself and blow him apart. That ist under every bed-they would immediately is the best advice a practising policeman call m all weapons in this State. Of course, could give. there would then be nobody left with a gun Mrs. KYBURZ: Not many women in our ~ho had a right to have a gun. We hear suburbs couJd do that. It is just not good that story dressed up in pink one day, blue enough. t~e next and red the next. It does change sl!ghtly. I say to the League of Rights Can we legislate for a crazy society or try that it ought to consider the fact that to protect the well from the sick, which with its controls over civil liberties it i~ includes the mentaJ!,Jy sick? vhe member for just as frig~te11:ing as the Communist Party Cook raised the issue of kiLlings on country would be w1th 1ts controls over guns. roads. I certainly endorse his comments. I am a keen camper myself. Sometimes the chill The last Press article to which I refer is goes through me that someone could be lurk­ dated 19 April 1979. It is headed "Gun ing out in the bushes. I would like to hear sales by superma!'kets worry dealers" and the Minister's eX'planation for the Govern­ says that Bri~bane firearm dea,lers have ment's recaJcitrance in protecting women criticised supermarkets for selling guns. such as the one I have just mentioned, and Indeed, as has been mentioned by other indeed future generations, from those among members, they are sold to people who are them who are sick. under age. The article says- "Shotguns and rifles are sold in at Mr. D'ARCY (Woodridge) (11.59 p.m.): It ,Jeast t'Wc1 retail chain stores in Brisbane is not often that J agree with the member but neither group had a spokesman who for Salisbury, but J think she has hit the could comment yesterday." nail on the head-as did our Opposition Shame on them! It is time that we started spokesman. This is weak legislation and it will detailing where they are available and to do nothing to prevent the use of firearms in whom they are available. Profits beina made Queensland. I do not intend speaking for on these Jong arms are going to stor~s such very :long, as most of the points have been as A Mart. They have large spreads in well covered by previous speakers. However, "Sunday Sun". It makes my stomach churn there are a couple of points I would like to with disgust. In so many instances these make. retail outlets are frequented by troubled We have heard much from Country Party youths. members attacking Opposition members for I reaily ,would have thought that in this not knowing about rifles or guns. I am one Year of the Child, which has been much who has used them all my life. Anyone who mooted, much applauded and had so many uses a ,firearm ought to have a healthy res­ bouquets thrust upon it, the Government pect for it. Beca:USe of the ready availabrlity wou.ld indicate its concern for future gen­ of firearms, there are too many people in eratJOns and for the present Police Force­ our community who do not have that respect. inde:d, for present bank employees-by With this legis:lation the Government is mak­ makmg some real attempt to attack the ing no real attempt to restrict the availability problems at hand. This is not a real of fireaJCms. It is a weak piece of legis.lation. att~mpt. As I s.aid before, it is powder"puff The Minister referred to the gun itself­ legtslatJOn. ObvJOus,Jy one cannot oppose it to the firearm. Honourable members have as suoh, but one would like to see it given spoken about cars, motor bikes and knives. a little strength. All of them can kill; in fact, one can kill Finally, I would like to express my con­ with almost anything. However, a point that cern for so many women in society nowa­ has not yet been made is that guns, rifles and days who are under physkal threat. I know firearms of all types are made specifically to that some might say, "This is just a case kill. That is their only purpose. A knife that does not often arise." The member for can be used for cutting meat or for a Toowoomba North mentioned an incident. I thousand other purposes; a gun is a weapon know that he is deeply concerned because with which to kill. The Minister and other of his medical involvement. A woman rang honourable members must realise that. me on Sunday and mentioned that she had It is important to remember that firearms, heard a radio report that this Bill was coming because of their availability, are apt to injure Firearms and Offensive [30 & 31 OcroBER 1979] Weapons Bill 1539 people accidentally. There has been a great and walk out with a licence to kill. Whether deal of talk about the use of firearms as they are mentally incompetent or physically weapons in robberies, hold-ups and crimes incompetent, or whether they know the front of other types, and what has been said is end of a gun from the back end, they can true. Although a percentage of fatalities simply walk out with $26 worth of rifle occur in those circumstances, by far the high­ under their arm. That is just not good est percentage occur completely accidentally. enough. The Minister said that the provisions of The Bill does not include any provision the Bill will prevent certain people from relating to licences for persons prior to their owning or using firearms or from having a being able to shoot, own or possess long­ registered firearm. I should like him to tell barrelled weapons. That is a serious defect. me how people who are mentally ill can There is a strong argument for the registration legitimately be prevented from owning a of all weapons. However, because I realise firearm. that that argument, for a variety of reasons, has no chance of support in the House at the Mr. Mackenroth: You could ask a person moment, I will not pursue it. I do believe whether he is a member of the National that in those two specific areas the Bill Party to find out whether he is mentally is defective. There is no restriction on the disturbed. point of sale and there are no licences for persons to shoot. I will not canvass the Mr. D'ARCY: Yes. In the last week-and arguments on those two points; that was this did not appear in the newspapers-a done quite well by the honourable member patient from the psychiatric unit at Cherm­ for Sherwood, whose comments I endorse side hospital walked down to the K mart, whole-heartedly. purchased a rifle, returned to the unit and discharged the rifle twice into the roof. I am unhappy about the Bill also because That is the same hospital from which a it is far too wide. There are in it provisions patient walked out earlier this year, caught that do not belong in a Firearm' and Offen­ a bus to the Valley and jumped off the Story sive Weapons Bill. In their effort to bring Bridge. It is the same hospital from which everything related to firearms under one a woman was missing for three days and was umbrella, the drafters of this Biil have thrown then found dead in a ditch. It is the same their net far too wide. The result is a Bill hospital from which a 16-year-old girl from that is not a concealable firearms Bill, not the psychiatric unit went to a dance and was a firearms Bill, not an offensive weapons raped in the grounds. How do the people Bill; it could only be described as some type of Chermside feel about the accidents that of appurtenance to the Criminal Code. The are continually occurring? Patients from Bill would be far more effective if it was the Chermside hospital can walk out, looking restricted solely to firearms and covered them completely sane, go down to the K mart, buy very, very thoroughly. a rifle, and be a menace to society. The major cause of my concern over the I do not believe that the legislation is Bill is its provision of vast, unbridied and strong enough; I do not believe that it has discretionary powers in the police and in the the teeth that it ought to have. I have a Minister, thereby placing certain actions healthy respect for firearms, and I again entirely outside the ken of the court. I am ask honourable members to remember that totally opposed to this principle and will firearms are made to kill. They are made speak about it at some length at the Com­ only for that purpose. mittee stage. Because of these reservations, I find that I am unable to support the Bill. [Wednesday, 31 October 1979] I should now like to deal with some specific matters, but before doing so I compliment Mr. GYGAR (Stafford) (12.4 a.m.): 1 the Minister and his officers on the attitude am not happy with the Bill because it is not that they have displayed towards the concern the best firearms Bill that the State can expressed by Government members to them. achieve. I believe that over the last three It is no secret that the Minister, a number years I have demonstrated my attitude to of his officers and a number of honourable firearms legislation. I have made constant members had a very long discussion this submissions to a succession of Ministers for evening about areas of concern. I compliment Police calling for stric~ firearms legislation, the Minister on the open-minded attitude that and one of the two major reasons why I am he displayed and on his willingness to take not happy with the Bill is that it does not go on board the arguments that were put to far enough. him. I compliment him on his willingness to accept on behalf of the Government certain There is no restriction in the Bill on the amendments if they came forward. sale of long-barrelled weapons. In his con­ tribution to the debate, the honourable The philosophical difference that causes member for Sherwood drew attention to the the problems in the Bill-the restrictions K mart and A mart situations, where anybody that are placed in it-arises mainly from can stroll in off the street, put $26 down a difference of approach. The drafters of 1540 Firearms and Offensive [30 & 31 OcTOBER 1979] Weapons Bill the Bill, probably quite rightly, sought to in pursuit of the objects of the Bill. It is introduce legislation that would enable the fundamental that Executive power should full force of the law to be brought into be supervised by the courts at the very least play against miscreants. In so doing, they did to the extent of ensuring that laws of not pay sufficient regard to the effect that the natural justice apply in any consideration amendments sought to be introduced would of any Executive power. There can be have on ordinary law-abiding citizens or to specific exemptions, and I believe that they the effect that the limitations or restrictions are embodied in legislation such as the on the measures that seek, rightly, to prose­ Mental Health Act. However, I must say cute criminals and bring them before the that those matters have caused, and still do courts would have on the ordinary citizen. cause, me a great deal of concern about the Bill. To be more specific-the definitions clause leaves a tremendous amount to be desired. I should indicate to the House that some I again acknowledge the Minister's approach provisions relative to sweeping mandatory sentences were also included in the Bill. to this. He has indicated his willingness to Again, I must acknowledge the Minister's introduce certain amendments to the defini­ reasonable attitude to them. I understand tions clause and also to consider other amend­ that amendments will be prepared to put to ments. The difference of approach to which rest many of the matters of ooncern on this I referred earlier is apparent in this clause. issue. The definitions included in the Bill throw I remind the House that another startling an enormously wide net. Some of the defini­ power exists in the Bill. Frankly I have been tions bring into play elements that were never astounded that people have not been jumping intended to be brought into the legislation. up and down about it .. I ref~r to tho~e wh? Many of the definitions could cause severe are usually more identified wtth certam attl· problems in the future to both the Govern­ tudes to restrictions on gun oontrol. I am ment and the police. I will discuss specific surprised that no-one in this Parliament. has matters at the Committee stage after I see drawn our attention to the power to be giVen amendments that the Minister has indicated to the Governor-in-Council-! must say it is he will either introduce or accept. not a new power; it is in the present Act-to disarm the entire population of the State by The second matter I wish to refer to calling on them by the stroke of . :: pen to concerns pistol clubs and the effect that this deliver up all firearms, ammumtton and Bill would have on them. Firstly, I again weapons. acknowledge that the Minister proposes to introduce an amendment that will lift many An Opposition Member interjected. of the restrictions in the Bill as printed, which I believe would have totally destroyed Mr. GYGAR: The honourable member is the sport of pistol-shooting in Queensland. simply displaying his ignora~ce. If he had Those changes will be effected. However, I studied the Bill or done hts homework he believe that the remaining measures will would have seen that clause. cause many problems for practice by intend­ ing participants in major events. In summary, this legislation is infinite~y better than the Act but, regrettably, that ts Fears have been expressed in the corn· not saying much. It does not go far enough munity about restrictions on legitimate shoot­ in three specific areas. Firstly, I refer to the ing ranges. I hope that the Minister, in his restriction on the sale of long-barrelled fire­ reply, will give assurances that lay thDse arms. Secondly, the legislatio_n does not fears to rest. I must say that after dis­ attempt to impose any scrutmy of the cussing the matter with the Minister and his owners holders or purchasers of long-barrel­ officers many of my fears have proven led fir;arms prior to their using the weapons. groundless. I hope the Minister will take Thirdly, and most importantly, I find unac­ advantage of the Committee stage to rise and ceptable the discretionary powers granted discuss these matters and assure the public by the Bill which are untrammelled by the and members of this Chamber that feared supervision of the courts. restrictions on legitimate target practice will not be implemented under any circumstances. On a final note I draw the attention of the House to the A.L.P.'s attitude to the Another matter I raised previously con­ Bill. The paucity of the A.L.P.'s contribution cerns minors having the right to use firearms to the debate is indeed alarming. Opposition under supervision. Again the Minister has members have displayed absolutely no inter­ indicated that he is prepared to re-examine est in individual liberty, the rights of persons this matter. to have recourse to the courts and similar On certain matters the Minister and I matters. They have failed dismally in this cannot agree. In fact, I believe that many debate. honourable members and I would not agree Debate, on motion of Mr. Camm, on them. I refer to the power to detain, adjourned. wide powers of search and the clause in the Bill that totally excludes the courts from The House adjourned at 12.15 a.m. scrutinising administrative actions undertaken (Wednesday).