Boisi Center Interviews No

the boisi center interviews no. 112: October 22, 2015 firmin debrabander studied at Boston College and the Catholic University of Louvain and received his PhD in philosophy from Emory University. Debrabander spoke with Boisi Center pro- gram director Suzanne Hevelone and undergraduate research assistant Max Blaisdell about his recent book, Do Guns Make Us Free? Democracy and the Armed Society (Yale University Press, 2015). blaisdell: Why do gun control revealed the power of the National Rifle to impose greater gun control, what efforts in the United States continue to Association (NRA). They were still able will? After Charleston, that too was not struggle in the face of countless mass to scuttle the gun control legislation enough. shootings over the last several years? after an incident like that. That caused With each of these shootings, Wayne everyone on the gun control side to debrabander: That is the big ques- LaPierre, who is the CEO of the NRA, rename themselves as the gun safety tion, of course. There are a variety of doesn’t even bother to come out and reasons for that. The easy answer is that make assertions to the public. He feels the gun lobby is well-organized and he doesn’t have to, quite frankly. But motivated, and they use their money the gun safety movement has reorient- and power effectively. They also use ed and rearranged their approach to the intimidation well. issue now. There is also a minority of voters who blaisdell: Why is it important to do support radical gun rights – gun tackle gun rights from a philosophical rights absolutism about any kind of perspective? regulation at all. They’re motivated and debrabander: I view what I’m doing passionate, and they have an outsized as a political critique, because the big voice. They’re reliable voters. The rest questions I ask are the ones you started of the electorate, which according to with. Why is the NRA so singularly and polls support some gun control, are not stunningly successful in the face of all fitted with the same passion, or at least these massacres? Also in the face of all not the same passion that matches that kinds of public health data that runs of the gun rights side. contrary to their arguments and Amer- So there have been numerous incidenc- ican public opinion, which is against movement, instead of gun control, and es where the electorate who supports them? Why are they successful? also to reevaluate their strategy. It also gun control fails to show up at the polls made them understand that the gun They’re successful because they’ve done to outbalance the vociferous minority rights movement under the auspices of an excellent job of making certain polit- that do support them. the NRA is difficult to deal with because ical arguments. “Guns make us free.” blaisdell: Even after tragedies such it does not feel that it has to negotiate. “We need widespread gun ownership as in Charleston or Sandy Hook? The NRA quite simply scored a major to counteract government tyranny.” “Widespread gun ownership supports debrabander:Yes, and the Sandy victory after Sandy Hook. That’s why and sustains our democracy as we Hook shooting really shook everyone in I think the American electorate is so know it.” “We only have rights as such the gun control movement because it cynical about gun control’s prospects. If that tragedy cannot motivate the nation because of the Second Amendment.” 1 the boisi center interview: firmin debrabander These are the arguments they like to call a Manichean view of the universe. makes a lot of sense – maybe not here make. What that means is that it neatly divides in Massachusetts, but other parts of the the universe into forces of good and country. When you pull over someone What I wanted to do in this book is evil. Wayne LaPierre talks about the for a routine traffic stop, you have to turn the eye of political theory on those good guys with a gun versus the bad think they’re armed. And you have to arguments and analyze them – subject guys with a gun. If only it were that be on edge. There was an article in The them to scrutiny – and undo them. For simple. Neatly dividing society up into Washington Post just a few months ago example, the gun rights movement good and bad and then dealing harshly – there have been 400 police shootings likes to cite John Locke as one of their with people as a result without any kind over the year so far and in 80% of them intellectual heirs. I point out in my of moral nuance – that is part of the the civilian had a gun. book that he is actually not their heir cause of mass incarceration. It’s part of but their enemy. blaisdell: Does the Second Amend- the growing cruelty of our society. ment need to be amended for the gun The project that I’ve done here is safety or gun control legislation to pass something that needed to be done at the federal level? Or can the Second because it had not been done before. I Amendment coexist with gun control? think it paves a way for the gun safety “The NRA quite movement, which is struggling at the simply scored a debrabander: The Supreme Court moment. If we can undo the political justices, in their most recent ruling arguments of the NRA, that will help major victory after on the Second Amendment, District the cause of gun control. That’s why I Sandy Hook. That’s of Columbia v. Heller, greatly expanded tried to subject them to the thinking individual gun rights and overturned of political philosophers and political why I think the a history of decisions. For 100 years philosophy as such. So I consider it a American electorate previously, groups had come before the political philosophy analysis. Supreme Court or before the federal is so cynical about system trying to argue that the Second hevelone: You make an argument in gun control’s Amendment enshrines and protects one of your articles about gun prolifer- an individual right to bear arms. They ation and police brutality, and how one prospects. If that were rebuffed over and over again, be- leads to the other. How does that tie to tragedy cannot cause the Supreme Court read that the mass incarceration in this country? Do Second Amendment enshrines a collec- you see the proliferation of guns having motivate the nation tive right to bear arms. That’s what the any direct correlation to mass incarcer- to impose greater word “militia” standing there means. ation? gun control, what What was monumental about DC v. debrabander: It is very much relat- Heller is that Supreme Court justices ed. It’s also related to the point that’s will?” overturned that traditional reading, and always lurking beneath the surface of said it protects an individual right. So the gun rights movement, which is the NRA got their way. But Scalia said its profound and deep racism. Gun What does the NRA say to these mass in his majority decision that this ruling righters deny it all the time, but it rears shootings? It says, this is a mental is not incompatible with regulations. its head. When I write these articles for health issue. Then what does it say to It’s purely the will of the NRA that The Washington Post, I don’t bother to deal with that? As if Wayne LaPierre is there are none. By the way, the phrase read the comments because I’ve been some expert on how to deal with mental that comes before militia in the Second told about the nastiness that comes out health people. In one terrible quote he Amendment is “well regulated.” after me. I learned early on not to read calls them lunatics, and then he says blaisdell: Would you speak to the them. My colleagues read them, and they need to be on their meds, they’re framers’ intention when they wrote the then they warn me in the hall not to being let out of the institutions, and Second Amendment? read them. What routinely comes out they need to be rounded up. That’s part in those comments is their abundant and parcel of this Manichean outlook. debrabander: That’s highly debated racism. as well. The persuasive arguments I’ve I have seen articles arguing that police read is that it was handed down to us In my book, I link the profound brutality is related to it, and in fact po- from British common law. What British fear-mongering of the NRA to what I licemen themselves have told me so. It common law presumed was an indi- 2 the boisi center interview: firmin debrabander vidual right to gun ownership in order to protect oneself on the frontier or for hunting purposes. That’s not contro- versial. So then why did they write the Second Amendment? It seems there was a political purpose in writing it. In the context of the Federalist Papers, it seems that it was written to assuage the antifederalists. Those are the groups that did not want a standing army, because they were afraid of what a standing army meant, and especially at the hands of a centralized government. They wanted to bolster the militia movement to counterbalance it. James Madison, Alexander Hamilton opposite, which should be a retort to how can you practice charity? I mention and John Jay were essentially in favor the gun rights people, who claim that it the story from the Gospel – the story of of a more centralized government.

Load more