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Report of Proceedings of House of Keys Printed (by Authority) by CORRIE Ltd., 48 Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man. REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF HOUSE OF KEYS Douglas, Tuesday, 31st March 1992 at 10.00 a.m. Present: BILL FOR FIRST READING The Speaker (the Hon. J.C. Cain) (Douglas West); Hon. A.R. Bell and Mr. T.R.A. Groves (Ramsey); The Speaker: Hon. members, we now turn to the Mr. R.E. Quine, OBE (Ayre); Mr. J.D.Q. Cannan Agenda and the first item is Bills for first reading and I call (Michael); Hon. H. Hannan (Peel); Mr. W.A. Gilbey upon the Secretary of the House. (Glenfaba); Dr. E.J. Mann (Guff); Hon. D. North (Middle); Messrs. P. Karran, R.K. Corkill and G. Waft The Secretary: The Statute Law Revision Bill, Mr. (Onchan); Hon. B. May and Mr. W.D. Corlett (Douglas Kermode. North); Messrs. A.C. Duggan and D.C. Cretney (Douglas South); Messrs. D.F.K. Delaney and P.W. Kermode (Douglas East); Mr. A.F. Downie (Douglas West); Hon. J.A. Brown (Castletown); Hon. D.J. Gelling (Malew and FIRE PRECAUTIONS (AMENDMENT) BILL - Santon); Hon. M.R. Walker, CBE, Hon. J. Corrin and Mr. CLAUSES CONSIDERED N.Q. Cringle (Rushen); with Prof. T. St.J. N. Bates, Secretary of the House. The Speaker: Item number 2 on the Agenda, hon. members, is the clauses stage of the Fire Precautions (Amendment) Bill. Now, this is in the name of the hon. member for Onchan, and I would suggest, hon. member, The Chaplain took the prayers. that each clause be taken separately. Mr. Karran: Vainstyr Loayreyder, hon. members, Clause 1 and Schedule 1. This clause creates a more flexible system of fire precautions in buildings which at present LEAVE OF ABSENCE require a fire certificate. The Fire Authority is empowered to grant an exemption from certification. It may supplement The Speaker: Hon. members, the member for Douglas it with a code of practice and improvement notices to remedy East, Mr. Kermode, has leave of absence this morning to defects in fire precautions in exempt premises. attend a funeral. Schedule 1 inserts a new subsection (3A) in the 1975 Act enabling a designated order to specify a description of premises as qualifying for exemption by the Fire Authority. Under the new Section 4A in this schedule it widens the criteria by which premises may be exempt or qualify for PROCEDURE UNDER STANDING ORDERS - exemption. STATEMENT BY THE SPEAKER I beg to move that Clause 1 and Section 1 stand part of the Bill. The Speaker: Now, before we start the Agenda, members will remember that at our last sitting the member Mr. Walker: I am pleased to second, Mr. Speaker. for Douglas East, Mr. Delaney, sought clarification of the applicable procedure where an hon. member does not wish The Speaker: Thank you. Does any hon. member wish to proceed with business in his name which appears on the to speak? If not, I will put the motion that Clause 1 and Agenda. Where a member has moved a motion and Schedule 1 stand part of the Bill. All those in favour please thereafter decides not to proceed at that sitting, under say aye; to the contrary say no. The ayes have it. The ayes Standing Order 60 the member may withdraw the motion have it. We now move on to Clause 2. but only with the leave of the House. Where a member has not moved a motion and does not wish to proceed, the Mr. Karran: Vainstyr Loayreyder, Clause 2 deals with member does not require the leave of the House, and I think the Fire Authority having the power to make charges for that is the fundamental point that was being made. Indeed, the issuing of fire certificates. The fee is to cover the in strict procedural terms the member need take no action administration cost, not the inspection cost. I hope that this at all. However, Standing Order 37, paragraph (1) provides hon. House will support Clause 2 standing part of the Bill. that the business of the House shall be ordinarily that set I beg to move. forth in the Agenda, and I am sure that the House would consider it courteous if a member who did not wish to Mr. Walker: I beg to second, Mr. Speaker. proceed with business on the Agenda explained to the House that that was the case. Mr. Kermode: Mr. Speaker, I rise to oppose this move Leave of Absence Procedure Under Standing Orders — Statement by the Speaker Bill for First Reading Fire Precautions (Amendment) Bill — Clauses Considered K132 HOUSE OF KEYS, TUESDAY, 3 I st MARCH 1992 made by the hon. member, the mover of the Bill. I feel there their behalf. are many people within my own constituency, especially in I believe this Bill is certainly premature. I believe it is the hotel industry, who over the years once had an wrong at this moment in time. Whether we have a recession inspection, have had to consider a considerable amount of or we have a levelling off of the economy or call it what expense in carrying out what the fire services wished them you will, we certainly have not got the growth in the to carry out in order to make their building safe. Whereas economy that we have had over the last four years, and I my constituents are not against the principle of having believe that this Bill is going to put another aid to this small guidelines or recommendations, it was not so long ago in administration to create itself, to expand its little empire, this hon. House we debated this once before - in another and be able to do it by having the power within this clause place, I should say - where there were all kinds of problems to put those charges for the expansion of the empire back with inspections not being carried out on time and not being onto the public. done in the manner in which it should have been done, and The member - I think 26 words he used to explain this there were a lot of places and a lot of premises that were clause, but the importance of this clause is frightening. We left and not looked at. Thank goodness now we are getting have not been told in what areas these charges in reality are to a situation where the majority of the hotels on the going to be. We have not been told when the rest of the Bill promenade are now coming up to standard, and I know the comes into it, and I voted against the last reading because views of the Tourism Department and they have also we have not had a clear identification of what the policy accepted that the hoteliers themselves are trying to help is going to be. It is just 'Vote for this, leave it to us and themselves out. we will get on with it.' Well, that is the way to really damage But the fundamental principle of asking them also to pay private enterprise. Take the number of small businesses in for a fire certificate when you consider they are in an the Isle of Man, the small man fighting at the moment to industry that has been ailing for the last 10 years, they have survive, whether it be the little garage or the small guesthouse not got the business that they have always had - there has or hotel or when we get to the shops or other small been no indication from the hon. mover of the Bill as to businesses, and we are now passing this power to this what the charge will be for this particular fire certificate; Authority to carry on creating an empire and the charges we have had no information whatsoever. So therefore on that will be levelled, because they will be levelled against principle I cannot support this and I hope other members those people who under law will require these services. I will support us in this today. believe at this time it is a step down the road and I cannot see the overall policy of this. I believe it is going to be Mr. Delaney: Mr. Speaker, in the last four years, as all damaging to the Isle of Man's economy where we depend the hon. members are aware, we created in the Isle of Man on so many small business people. I believe this Bill is the some 800 new positions to be paid for by the taxpayer. tool that will help to destroy and to put extra charges onto Whether or not we are in recession or we are going into the public who at this moment in time are having difficulty recession or we are having cutbacks or money will not be surviving. available for major priority projects can all be debated and I understand the need for public safety in fire. I am very thought about, but I am sure, as one member of this hon. conscious of that. But if we go back over the last few years House, that if we do not check ourselves in the creation of we will see what has happened. We have not completed the the empires that are springing up and have sprung up we policy that was set out and identified at this moment in time will be finding ourselves unable to manoeuvre financially in relation to that business which is going through turmoil. to achieve those political objects, and these words of mine Even the Minister of Tourism will identify that.
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