Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 29 OCTOBER 1974

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Land Tax Act Amendment Bill [29 OcTOBER 1974] Election of Speaker 1677

TUESDAY, 29 OCTOBER 1974

THE CLERK OF THE PARLIAMENT (Mr. C. George) took the chair at 11 a.m.

VACANCY IN OFFICE OF SPEAKER The Cl,erk: I have to inform the House that I have received the following letter from the Honourable the Speaker, the Honourable W. H. Lonergan, M.L.A.- "Brisbane, 28th October 1974. "The Clerk of the Parliament, "Parliament House, "Brisbane. "Dear Sir, "I hereby tender my resignation as Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Queensland and as Member for the Electoral District of Flinders. Yours faithfully, W. H. Lonergan." In accordance with the provisiOns of Standing Order No. 9, I have to report that by reason of such resignation a vacancy now exists in the office of Speaker.

ELECTION OF SPEAKER Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (11.1 a.m.): Mr. George, on behalf of all Government members, I move- "That Mr. James Edward Hiram Houghton do take the Chair of the House as Speaker." Mr. BromJey: I saw you shaking his hand on Friday. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: I am sure that all honourable members on this side of the House support the motion. On behalf of all honourable members on this side of the House and, I am sure, the other side, I express very deep regret that Mr. Lonergan's condition of health is such that he felt impelled to tender his resignation. Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ Treasurer) (11.2 a.m.): Mr. George, I have much pleasure in seconding the motion moved by the Premier. I believe that Mr. Houghton, because of his years of experience in this House, will be able to discharge the duties and responsibilities of Speaker capably and without fear or favour. I regard the Speakership of this House as a position of very great importance. Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (11.3 a.m.): Mr. George, I move- 'That Mr. Harold Dean do take the Chair of the House as Speaker." In the election of a member of Parliament to the very important and high office of Speaker, members should be given a choice. 1678 Election of Speaker [29 OCTOBER 1974] Election of Speaker

We do not accept the demands that have Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (11.7 been made in past weeks about this very a.m.): Point the finger of scorn at me, Mr. important position by the National Party in George. this Parliament. In Mr. Dean we have a This, of course, is a very solemn occasion man with almost 15 years' experience in this -or it should be-when the House in Parliament, a man who has occupied the deliberate assembly elects its Speaker, a man position of Temporary Chairman of Com­ required by tradition, law and the Standing mittees on a number of occasions, a man Orders made by the Parliament itself to con­ who has proved to this Parliament that, in duct the business of the House as it should be this position, he can control this Assembly conducted. with the dignity required of an honourable member in that important position. I knew the honourable member for Red­ cliffe during the war. He was a major in Mr. MARGINSON (Wolston) (11.4 a.m.): charge of an Army unit in Townsville. He Mr. George, it is with great pleasure that I rendered service to his country with honour second the motion moved by the honourable and distinction; I have no doubt many other member for Belmont that Mr. Harold Dean, members of this Chamber did the same. the honourable member for Sandgate, be I very much regret that my old mate, my elected Speaker of this Assembly. Before fellow westerner, Mr. Bill Lonergan, has proceeding further I express regret that the found it necessary to resign the Speakership former Speaker and member for Flinders and his seat in this House. Of course, Bill has found it necessary to retire from that Lonergan had one failing; he was much too office and Parliament. I recollect, as no much a gentleman to be the Speaker of this doubt do all honourable members, his elec­ Assembly. He allowed great latitude to the tion to the Speakership over two years ago members of the A.L.P. I know that in the when this Parliament approved what was past some of the children up in the public tantamount to a motion of no confidence in galleries-and the galleries are full of the other nominee for the position, that is, children now-have gone away absolutely Mr. Houghton, the honourable member for disgusted at the actions and the antics of Redcliffe. In fact, though it was a secret members of the A.L.P. Those members not ballot, I believe that a great majority of the only tried Bill Lonergan's patience but also Liberal Party members supported the tried our sense of decency more than once. member for Flinders at that time. Mr. D'Arcy interjected. Mr. Lane: How would you know? It wasn't in the Trades Hall. It was a secret Mr. AIKENS: You are one of the worst ballot. offenders. Stand up and let them have a look at you. Mr. MARGINSON: Now we have the shady part of the Liberal Party interrupting An Opposition Member: We elected him. the proceedings, which I hope will be con­ Mr. AIKENS: Of course you elected him. ducted with dignity and decorum. That, I You played a dirty, filthy game of party believe, would be assured by the election of politics to put Bill Lonergan in the chair. the honourable member for Sandgate to the Don't think for one moment that you tricked Speakership. Bill when you did it. I knew the honourable member for Sand­ We heard quite a lot from the member gate for many years before I came into the who just resumed his seat, the honourable House. He is one in whom I have the member for Wolston, about dignity and greatest confidence. He is one who, I believe, decorum. Being a great mate of Bill Loner­ will carry out the duties of Mr. Speaker as gan's-I knew him in the West-I doubt they should be carried out. I look for the whether anyone else would have got to support of all honoumble members for the where Bill Lonergan did after the hattle he election of the honourable member for Sand­ had to get there. I first knew him as a gate because I ,believe it would be for the young man at a place called Malbon, which good of the Assembly to have such a man, is a long way out in the West. who has had much experience as Temporary Chairman of Committees. I fully support his Mr. Davis interjected. nomination. Only a few weeks ago the Speakership Mr. AIKENS: Listen to the honourable was held out as a bribe by the National member for Brisbane, who never did a day's Party to the Liberal Party in return work in his life and who still hangs round the for its agreement to an early election. It S.P. shops in Spring Hill trying to pick up a proposed that the Government's present bit here and there on the side. Fancy him, nominee should be the Speaker as part of of all people, laughing at the suggestion that the deal for an early election. We Bill Lonergan did a decent day's work. He remember that quite distinctly. Doesn't that did more work in one day than the hon­ boil down to outside influence upon the ourable member for Brisbane has ever heard determination of whom the Speaker of this of. Assembly should be? I urge honourable Bill Lonergan came up the hard way. I members to support the nomination of the was one of those in the back country who honourable member for Sandgate. came up with him. I know that in recent Election of Speaker [29 OcTOBER 1974] Election of Speaker 1679 weeks Bill has suffered from a heart condition. did not mention the way the Labor Party in On one occasion I went to his quarters in Canberra has jacked up the interest rate so the Bellevue building. I know that nobody that young people cannot afford to buy will object to my mentioning that our very homes. Not a single word about the good manageress, Kath Thurbon, and the important issues that affect people today. honourable members for Port Curtis and All they were concerned about was going Mackay were there. Bill looked like going along with Senator Keeffe-and what a lovely over the Great Divide, and, very facetiously, number he is-and supporting him to the as I knew Bill had a sense of humour, I hilt when he put through his shocking gave him extreme unction. Afterwards, he motions. A.L.P. members were not even said, "That put me on my feet. If Tom game to come out and say that they would thought I was going to die, it was about legalise these filthy, disgusting practices; time I showed him I wouldn't." they coined a new word. They propose to "decriminalise" abortion, homosexuality, Fancy Opposition members talking about prostitution, and, what is worst of all, homo­ dignity and decorum. It's a wonder A.L.P. members don't choke on words like sexual prostitution. "dignity" and "decorum". As I put to the Leader of the Opposition Despite the fact that Bill Lonergan's the other day, if he has as much guts as heart was not as strong as it should have gab, let him and perhaps his Deputy Leader been-of course, if his heart had been as get down on the floor of the House and strong and as thick as the hide of some show us what homosexuality is so that if a A.L.P. members, he would be right at the vote is ever taken on it we will know what top of his physical form today-he came we are voting on. back into the chair last week. Of course, Mr. Davis interjected. he really was not fit and he should not have come back into the chair; but out of Mr. AIKENS: The member should be the his sense of duty he came back to do his the last to talk about it. No-one would job as Speaker. know more about homosexuality than he. I know that the "Mickey the Goose" act So, Mr. George, I ask the members of staged in absolutely disgraceful circumstances this Assembly to act quietly and deliberately, by the Leader of the Opposition, who is not in all good conscience and with "dignity" in the Chamber, so affected Bill Lonergan and "decorum"-those are two words that it brought on another heart attack and that I can use without their sticking in my put him into the intensive-care ward at the throat and choking me-and elect a Speaker hospital. He has not recovered from it. It to take charge of the Legislative Assembly was the most disgraceful, disgusting, despic­ of Queensland. I know that the Labor Party able, detestable and reprehensible act ever does not want Jim Houghton in the chair. staged in this Parliament. Even Mickey the God help them if he does get into the chair! Goose, in the streets of Townsville, was I know that he will not deny them simple upstaged by the Leader of the Opposition justice; I know that he will act as Speaker last Wednesday, yet these men talk of in accordance with the best traditions of the dignity and decorum. Speakership of the House of Commons; but Let me say something about the honour­ I am positive that they will not get away able member for Sandgate. Personally, I with the-- hold him in high regard. Any honourable member who has been in this Chamber with Mr. Newton interjected. him would know him as a man of sterling Mr. AIKENS: I am positive that the character and of not little courage. honourable member will not get away with Fortunately, no man can serve two the guttersnipe tactics that he has been masters or, to go further into Holy Writ, a getting away with. He will not get away house divided against itself cannot stand. with the oral filth, the slander, the scandal How can we put the honourable member and all the other things he has been getting for Sandgate into the chair? Mr. Speaker away with. So I tell the world right now should have honour, probity and courage. that my vote will go to Jim Houghton. The honourable member for Sandgate still proudly retains his membership in the A.L.P., Mr. B. WOOD (Barron River) (11.16 which is pledged to support the legalisation a.m.): We have just heard from the honour­ of abortion, prostitution, homosexuality and able member for Townsville South an homosexual prostitution. Is that the type of example of the type of conduct that makes man we want in the chair of this Assembly? so important the appointment of a capable Is that the type of man we should hold out and strong Speaker. The responsibility of to our young people in particular as the preserving dignity and decorum was dis­ model of all that is desirable and requisite charged by the former Speaker, Mr. for the position of Speaker? Lonergan, and we have seen today how Just look at all the Opposition members necessary it is, when there is a member who probably practise those things. They of the calibre of the honourable member for went to Cairns and they did not deal with Townsville South in the Chamber, to have a the big problems of the day, such as unem­ Speaker in the Chair to maintain the dignity ployment and the housing shortage. They of the House. 1680 Election of Speaker [29 OcTOBER 1974] Election of Speaker

The honourable member for Townsville now see that the National Party has South must have used the words dignity and triumphed. Not only do National Party decorum six or seven times. It is clear that parliamentarians stand over the Liberals, but he has no knowledge of the meaning of those so also does the National Party outside body. words. There is no member of this Assembly Today we have seen a clear example of the more undignified and less decorous than the need for Mr. Dean to be elected Speaker of honourable member for Townsville South, the House. He is a man who will bring to who seizes every opportunity to bring this the position the prestige that is required. I Assembly into disrepute. urge honourable members to support him. Mr. Aikens interjected. Mr. D'ARCY (Albert) (11.22 a.m.): I, too, support the nomination of Mr. Harold Dean, Mr. B. WOOD: He continues to do so, the honourable member for Sandgate, for the and it is obvious that he is a man who has position of Speaker. The high integrity of no respect for this Parliament. As I said, he Mr. Dean is well known to all honourable will do everything possible to bring it into members. disrepute. Honourable members have seen the utter Sir Gordon Chalk interjected. stupidity of his arguments-such as they are Mr. D'ARCY: It is disgusting of the --over and over again. At one stage this Treasurer to rubbish a man of Mr. Dean's morning he patted the former Speaker on the high qualities. We all appreciate his great back, saying what a fine fellow he was; yet, capabilities. He has spent quite a deal of a few minutes later, he said that the House time in the chair as Temporary Chairman and had degenerated during Mr. Lonergan's his nomination should be supported by every period as Speaker. He does not seem to honourable member. know what he is about-a compliment on the one hand; abuse of the former Speaker on It is a great pity that the National Party the other. has once again used its boot-licking lackey from Townsville South to rubbish the A.L.P. About 21 years ago in this House, he was The standard of debate degenerates greatly severely critical of the former Speaker, Mr. whenever he speaks. In my few short years Lonergan, for daring to contest the Speaker­ in the Chamber he has spent most of his time ship. in denigrating under privilege of Parliament Mr. Wright: He criticised him again today. individuals outside who have no protection. He has been hypocritical in his attitude to Mr. B. WOOD: He did not know what he the former Speaker, a man whom most of was doing today. He was on two sides at us greatly respect. It is a shame that the once. honourable member for Townsville South­ As a North Queenslander-and I am a if he could be called "honourable" at any genuine North Queenslander-I have a point time-has acted in this manner. He is in the to make. The honourable member for Towns­ House only when he is told by the National ville South fails to realise that he does not Party to be here. He is without principles or even live in the northern part of the State; scruples. The only time he is present is when but, of course, he fails to understand a great he shows up to rubbish somebody or to do deal. Today again one sees a situation in something the National Party has asked him which the North of the State is overlooked. to do. Two years ago members of the Government It is not my desire to delay the proceedings. parties at least acknowledged that that should It is a great pity that the debate on the not happen and, in a revolt at that time, election of a Speaker to control this House installed a northerner as Speaker of this has degenerated to such an extent solely as Assembly. However, that revolt was very a result of the actions of one member. short lived, and a person from the southern extremity of the State was chosen for the I respect the other speakers who have risen recent appointment to Cabinet. Today's today. I again support the nomination of nomination of the honourable member for Mr. Dean. Reddiffe is a further example of the way At 11.25 a.m., in which the southern part of Queensland In accordance with the provisions of Stand­ predominates in the thinking of the National ing Orders 6 and 7, a ballot was taken by and Liberal parties. I should have thought the Clerk, with the following resutt:- that the honourable member for Townsville MR. HouGHTON 42 South would have supported someone from the North for the position. MR. DEAN 29 Mention has been made of the evident INFORMAL 1 success of the standover tactics of the Mr. Houghton, having submitted himself National Party. We have proof today that to the pleasure of the House, was conducted the National Party has triumphed once again to the chair by the mover and the seconder. over the Liberal Party. Just over a week ago Speaking from the dais, he said: "Honourable the National Party's outside body said to the members, I express my thanks to you for Liberals that Mr. Houghton must be Speaker. conferring upon me the honour of appoint­ Despite some attempt at face-saving by the ment to the high office of Speaker of this Deputy Premier, eight or nine days later we House; I deem it a great honour and a Election of Speaker [29 OCTOBER 1974] Electoral District of Flinders 1681 pleasure. It is an office of great importa~ce On behalf of the Opposition let me say to the Parliament and the State and carnes that I appreciate the importance of the posi­ with it great traditions, established by those tion to which you, Mr. Speaker, have been who built this great democracy of ours. I elected. You have our assurance that we sincerely hope that I will be able to uphold will endeavour to uphold the dignity and its dignity fully. No organisation can survive decorum of this House. without the support of all its members. We are all members of this great institution, and Mr. Aikens: What a laugh! I am quite sure that, with your co-operation Mr. NEWTON: The honourable member and assistance, the conduct of the House will who interjects would be the greatest example flow as we all wish. I can assure you that of a man who wants two bob each way. He your co-operation will be whole-heartedly is the worst offender in this Parliament. It reciprocated in any matter to be undertaken. is a pity that, in dignity and decorum, he I have been in the Chamber many years. does not follow the example set by honour­ It is clear to us all, I believe, that many able members on this side and by some amendments are necessary to the rules of honourable members on the other side. the House. I sincerely hope that as time aoes by we will all get together and sort On behalf of the Opposition, I congratu­ ~ut the problems that have arisen from time late you Mr. Speaker on your election to to time. I offer my thanks to those who the high office of Speaker. supported my election. I assure all honour­ able members that I will do my utmost to l'Vk. Aikens: Now that we have heard serve the Assembly faithfully and well." all of that slobbering hypocrisy from the acting Leader of the Opposition, let us get Hon. J. BJ.ELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ on with the job and do some work. Premier) (11.44 a.m.): Mr. Speaker, on behalf Mr. SPEAKER: I thank honourable mem­ of the Government-and I am sure on behalf bers for their congratulations. of all honourable members-! extend to you hearty congratulations. We appreciate that you are a man of wide experience inside PRESENTATION OF MR. SPEAKER and outside the Chamber. We look forward to a long period with you as Speaker. We Hon. J. BJ.ELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah know you will administer your responsibilities -Premier): I desire to inform honourable impartially for the over-all good of the members that His Excellency the Governor Parliament and government generally. will receive the House for the purpose of presenting Mr. Speaker to His Excellency at Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (11.46 a.m.): Government House this afternoon at 12.15 Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Opposition I o'clock. extend congratulations to you. Mr. SPEAKER: I wish to inform the Mr. Aikens: Why didn't you vote for him? House that at 11.55 a.m. today I shall leave for Government House, there .to present Mr. NEWTON: We have had a demo­ myself to His Excellency the Governor as cratically held election. Parliament was the member chosen to fill the high and given a choice in the matter. That is why I honourable office of Speaker, and I invite am extending our congratulations to the such honourable members as care to do so honourable member for Redcliffe, who has to accompany me. been elected by this Parliament to that very [Sitting suspended from 11.50 to 2.15 p.m.] high and important office. Like the Premier, we know quite well that the honourable Mr. SPEAKER: I have to report that I member for Redcliffe has been a member presented myself to His Excellency the of this Parliament for many years. Only Governor at Government House as the Friday last he filled a gap by occupying the member chosen to fill the high and honour­ chair; otherwise we would have been delayed able office of Speaker of the Legislative for some time. We appreciate that he has Assembly, and that His Excellency was had some experience as a Temporary Chair­ pleased to congratulate me upon my election. man of Committees. We on this side of the Chamber are very sorry about the circumstances that brought ELECTORAL DISTRICT OF FLINDERS about this election. Any honourable member 'SEAT DECLARED VACANT who has been in this Chamber for a number of years and has been under the control of Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah different Speakers realises what a difficult -Premier): I move- task the Speaker has to perform and how "That the seat in this House for the onerous his duties are. It is unfortunate that electoral district of Flinders hath become Mr. Lonergan had to resign. Irrespective of and is now vacant by reason of the resig­ what was said or what took place on his nation of the Honourable William Horace election, once elected he endeavoured to Lonergan." carry out his duties to the best of his ability and in the manner he thought fit. Motion agreed to. 1682 Ministerial Statement [29 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice

PAPERS Minister for Labour will inflict an injustice The following papers were laid on the on workers living outside the capital cities table, and ordered to be printed:- in areas with higher costs of living. (5) The Queensland Government believes Reports- there is a big difference between application Apprenticeship Executive, for the year for quarterly increases substantiated by 1973-1974. argument, as is required in Queensland, Builders' Registration Board, for the and the automatic decision proposed by year 1973-1974. the A.C.T.U. Long Term Planning, Jumpinpin to In general comment, I should like to enlarge Nerang River Bridge. on what might appear to some to be a The following papers were laid on the paradox in that Queensland, which has a table:- form of wage indexation, is in opposition to Orders in Council under­ the application to the Federal commission. Apprenticeship Act 1964-1972. The Queensland Industrial Commission Harbours Act 1955-1972. accepts each quarter an application from unions for a percentage increase in the basic Regulations under- wage related to the percentage increase in Apprenticeship Act 1964-1972. the Consumer Price Index for Brisbane for Queensland Marine Act 1958-1972. the previous quarter. The commission does not automatically increase the basic wage, but insists on hearing argument from MINISTERIAL STATEMENT employers and unions. Wage rates for WAGE INDEXATION CLAIM BEFORE FEDERAL workers under State awards comprise two CONCILIATION AND ARBITRATION components-a basic wage and a margins COMMISSION component. If the commission increases the basic wage, it means that all workers under Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley­ State awards get an equal, or fiat, increase. Minister for Development and Industrial The commission is also able to vary the Affairs) (2.20 p.m.): I wish to inform the margins component from time to time. House that the Queensland Government will In my view, the system operating in seek leave to intervene in a wage indexation Queensland has been a contributing factor claim lodged in the Federal Conciliation and towards fewer industrial disputes being Arbitration Commission by the Australian experienced under State awards as compared Council of Trade Unions. It will do so for with Federal awards. the following reasons:- (1) A series of conferences chaired by the An excellent feature of the Queensland president of the commission and designed system is that it caters for higher living to resolve wage problems through discus­ costs in certain areas with a system of sion between management and labour parities which provide for higher wages. failed. Even the unions could not agree, Parities for adults apply throughout Queens­ and employers pointed up anomalies which land, except in the eastern district of the would occur in any system of automatic southern division, and range from 90c a adjustment. week in the Mackay division to $3.25 in the western district of the northern division. (2) Following the failure of the conferences, Furthermore, there is also a higher incidence the Federal Minister for Labour announced of over-award payments to Federal award his intention of introducing his concept of unionists than to those under State wage indexation. If he is successful, it jurisdictions. could mean Federal Government direction of the commission. Over-award arrangements negotiated freely Mr. Cameron's proposal is for full per­ outside the Commonwealth Commission, centage indexation up to the level of combined with automatic quarterly wage average weekly earnings and a fiat increase indexation, can result in economic chaos. thereafter. This means, for example, that The House will agree, I am sure, after members of the Australian Council of listening to the facts I have outlined, that it Salaried and Professional Associations and is only right that the Queensland Govern­ the Federal Administrative and Clerical ment should be heard before the Federal Officers Association, most of whom earn commission on this vital issue. more than the average weekly income, would be denied comparative wage justice. QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE (3) The Queensland Government will sub­ mit that ind€lxation .should not be con­ VIEWS OF MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERN­ sidered unless in conjunction with a revised MENT ON PUNISHMENT FOR CRIMES OF method of wages determination as an VIOLENCE integral part of the whole wages system. Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked The (4) The Queensland Government believes Minister for Local Government,- that automatic quarterly Federal award increases based on the Consumer Price Have his views on death by firing squad Index for the weighted average of the six for murderers and castration for rapists capital cities as proposed by the Federal changed since he became a Minister? Questions Upon Notice [29 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice 1683

Answer:- the amendment of Commonwealth legis­ "As the Honourable Member served on hrtion, and was fully canvassed when I the Joint Parliamentary Crimes Committee introduced the Bill into this House. As with me, he would be fully aware of my was made clear, there is no intention to views on the matters raised in his Ques­ interfere with the corporation's operations tion. However, I prefer to answer the for private persons or companies, nor Honourable Member's Question by asking to prevent its use by our Government. In does he fully subscribe to the new plat­ fact, the corporation has been paid some form and policy of the Australian Labor $500,000 in fees over the last four years Party which provides for the degradation and proposed commissions at present will of females by legalising prosti'tution?" cost some $450,000 in fees. I can see no reason for the hysterical outburst by Dr. Patterson nor for statements being made that I am trying to block the Bur­ FRAUD CHARGE AGAINST G. HENDERSON dekin water conservation project. On the Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked contrary, it was this Government which The Minister for Works,- suggested a joint State/Commonwealth assessment of the potential of the Bur­ (1) What is the present position in dekin Basin and we have studiously kept regard to a charge of fraud in the Brisbane our part of the bargain, even if Dr. Magistrates Court against Garry Bender­ Patterson has al!tempted to credit himself son, also known as Stanley Bruce Graham with the proposal and tried to use the or Mervyn Sidney Jamieson, relating to work done to boost his own image. I the alleged operations of a company known repudiate the statement by Dr. Patterson as Air Express Foods Pty. Ltd. or Air that the Queens}and Governmenlt is trying Foods Australia Pty. Ltd.? to deny the State the use of the Snowy (2) As he first appeared in the Bris­ Mountains Engineering Corporation or to bane court on June 21, 1972, what is the prevent the Federal Government from reason for the delay in the finalisation of using the advice of ilts own agencies. This the case? is a ridiculous statement from a sup­ posedly responsible Minister. Equally Answers:- ridiculous is the statement attributed to ( 1) 'The defendant stands remanded to Dr. Patterson 'to put it in pl·ain language appear at the Magistrates Court, Brisbane the Queensland Government is cultting its on November 15, 1974 for mention." own throat'. This is not the first time we have been threatened with punitive (2) "The delay which has occurred has action by Dr. Patterson and Queensland been beyond the control of the Police electors should be left in no doubt as Department which has ·made every to their fate if they fail to dance to his endeavour to have the matter dealt with." tune. The whole statement appears to me to act as a cover-up for the Com­ monwealth's complete lack of desire or LEGISLATION AFFECTING SNOWY intention to do anything much at all so MOUNTAINS AUTHORITY far as the Burdekin project is concerned." Mr. Bird, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,- LIMESTONE MINING AT MOUNT ETNA (!) Is he aware of a statement by Senator Wriedt that he is initiating legisla­ Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The tion to stop the Snowy Mountains Auth­ Premier,- ority operating in Queensland? ( 1) With regard to his promise prior (2) As Senator Wriedt has intimated to the May Commonwealth election that that the Burdekin-area people might be the mining of limestone in the Mount Etna sacrificed because of the Premier's per­ area would cease and that the area would sonal feelings, what is the true position be declared a national park, what action regarding this legislation? has been taken by his Government to fulfil his promise? Answers:- (2) Has Mr. Hennessy of Mt. Morgan Mines agreed to a request from him to (!) "Yes, but he was speaking in the Senate for Dr. Patterson, Minister for allow the limestone deposits held by his Northern Development, who has made mis­ company to be mined in lieu of those at leading and untrue statements about the Mount Etna? effects of a Bill tto amend the Snowy (3) As it is of major importance that Mountains Engineering Corporation the caves of this area be protected, when (Queensland) Act 1971, which recently will the mining of Mount Etna cease? passed through this House." (2) 'The step which I took to intro­ Answer:- duce legiSI!ation concerning the Snowy ( 1 to 3) "The responsible Minisrer will Mountains Engineering Corporation be making a public announcement on (Queensland) Act 1971 was prompted by this matter in due course." 1684 Questions Upon Notice [29 OcTOBER 1974] Questions Upon Notice

McKIRDY REPORT ON CORPORATE been ordered in the last two years and in AFFAIRS how many instances was it discovered that Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked The the companies investigated were unstable? Minister for Justice,- (2) Is the criticism, that the Companies ( 1) Will he table the McKirdy Report Act was far too loose and caus;ng nearly on the Office of the Corporate Affairs all the problems, justified? Commission for perusal by Members? (3) With reference to Carrigans Pty. (2) Will this report be made public and, Ltd., is he aware that thousands of young if so, when? women throughout Queensland stand to lose hundreds of dollars which they have (3) Is he aware of allegations that paid into this company's purchase plan this report is highly critical of the staff, over a number of years? management and procedures of the Cor­ porate Affairs Office and that the blame ( 4) When did he and the Commissioner for difficulties in that office's operation for Corporate Affairs first cecome aware will be placed squarely on the shoulders that Carrigans was in financial trouble? of the commissioner and hi<; two assistant (5) Is he aware that only days before commissioners? the company went into liquidation it was ( 4) Is he aware of the general dis­ still receiving payments aad promising satisfaction amongst the staff created by prompt delivery of goods which it obviously the procedures adopted in restructuring the could not supply? office? ( 6) As this practice is immoral, what (5) What steps has he taken to satisfy action does he intend to take or can himself that the report is an objective and he take against those responsible for the factual assessment of the functions of the deception and what can be done to assist office? the young women who have been caught? (6) Has Mr. McKirdy, who undertook this investigation and wrote the new quali­ Answers:- fications for the reclassification of positions, ( 1) "Companies are obliged under Sec­ applied for one of the advertised positions? tion 161A of the Aot to keep accounting (7) When was the last time the Minister records in such a manner as will enable visited the Corporate Affairs Office, Bris­ them to b'e properly audited. Section bane? 7 ( 6) enables the Commissioner or any person authorised by him to inspect the Answer:- books and records of any company. The Act provides that the books and accounts (1 to 7) "As the report was made to of all public companies should be subject the Public Service Board it is not my to annual audit and the report submitted function to publish it in any manner. This to the annual general meeting. In a allegation is not correct. It would be private company, however, shareholders unusual in a re-structuring of this mag­ need not appoint auditors but in such nitude if every officer were completely cases copies of th'e annual accounts must satisfied with the proposals. The report be lodged with the Commissioner. Where has been discussed in detail with depart­ auditors are appointed, the annual return mental officers. The qualifications required muslt bear a certificate from the auditor for appointment to vacant classified posi­ that the accounts are or are not in order. tions in respect of the filling of which Follow-up action is taken if the certificate there is a righ

( 4) ··~either the Commissioner nor advis'ed the council by letter in the follow­ myself were aware that the company was ing terms:-'As you are aware, the amend­ in fir:ancial difficulties until the public ing by-law has been the subject of certain announcement of the appointment of the unfavourable comment in the Press since provisional liquidator. However, follow­ its approval on the ground that it is an ing comments by the auditor and his non­ undemocratic exercise of powers. I feel certification of the accounts for the 1973 that there is some substance in these com­ trading year an explanation was sought ments, insofar as basic principles are from the company in March of this year. involved, though the legal position as stated The matter had not been finalised when by the council's solicitor may neither be tbe public announcement was made. The known nor appreciated. Whilst it would commems did not indicate that the com­ be a matter for the council to take action pany was experiencing financial troubles." ·to rescind the provision I suggest that the Council might give consideration to (5) "I am not aware of the company's rescinding the by-law in question, or activities but I point out that the company narrowing its application to public state­ has not yet gone into liquidation. How­ ments made in the name of or on behalf ever, I understand that an application for of the council.' No further advice has a winding-up order will be made on been received from the Council up to the November 1, 1974." present." ( 6) ''I am unable to comment on the matters raised by the Honourable Mem­ ber in view of the pending action but I REPORT ON LOCAL AUTHORITY would refer him to Sections 367 A and BouNDARIES 367B of the Companies Act." Mr. Marginson for Mr. Harvey, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Local Government,- CHARTERS TOWERS CITY COUNCIL ( 1) Will a report containing many pro­ BY-LAW posed amendments to local authority Mr. Marginson for Mr. Harvey, pursuant boundaries, as well as the Local Govern­ to notice. asked The Minister for Local ment Act, be presented to this Assembly Governme:Jt,- prior to the State election? (2) What are the general principles ( 1) With reference to the recent amend­ followed in the rearranging and redefining ment to the by-laws of the Council of of local authority boundaries and the the City of Charters Towers, which was a further amendment to that gazetted on reducing of the number of local authorities? March 16. how can the Government justify (3) Is there a report which recommends the suppression of an elected representa­ the reduction of the number of cities by tive's democratic right to speak out on two, the number of towns by at least 10 behalf of his constituents on matters which and the shires by a considerable number? relate to the council or the city? ( 4) What additional conditions will his (2) How was the amendment approved department take into consideration when by Executive Council when both the then defining new local authority boundaries, Acting ~Minister for Local Government and as well as basing them on important rail­ the Justi-:e Minister have subsequently and way towns? justifbbly expressed their opposition to it Answers:- as a suppression of the freedom of speech? ( 1) "I am not aware of any such com­ prehensive report and accordingly will not be submitting such a report to 1the (1 and 2) "The by-law amendment House prior to the State election." referred to by the Honourable Member (2) "The principle at present followed was app:·oved by the Governor in Council is that action be taken to alter boundaries on the basis of an intra vires certificate following agreement by the local awthorities by the council's legal adviser who, at concerned, or where special circumstances the time of issuing the certificate, advised exist warranting such action. Each case the council tha't in his opinion the council would be considered on its merits. The would not have power to 'gag' an alder­ Local Gopernment Act 1936-1974 provides man, but as the original by-law did not that, where the Governor in Council thinks make such an atvempt it seemed to him it is expedient to alter local authority that the proposed amendment took the boundaries, lthe Minister has to give three matter no further. Also, when the pro­ months' notice of intention in that behalf. posed by-law was advertised in a news­ During this period, interested persons have paper published in the area pursuant to a right to submit representations to the the Local Government Act 1936-1974, no Minister regarding the proposed alteration objections were lodged with the Town and all such representations are fully Clerk within the prescribed period of 21 considered before a final decision is made days. Subsequent to gazettal of the by-law, on the proposal by the Governor in the Acting Minister for Local Government Council." 1686 Questions Upon Notice [29 OcTOBER 19741 Questions Upon Notice

(3) "The Report of the Royal Com­ RETAIL MEAT TRADE mission on Local Authority Boundaries in 1928 recommended a reduction of the Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, asked number of cities by two, the number of The Minister for Primary Industries,- towns by 14, and reduction of the number ( 1) What would be the approximate of shires from 124 to 74." weights of the following items in the body (4) "Refer Answer to (2)." of an average 650 lbs. bullock-(a) brains, (b) tongue, (c) cheek, (d) heaJ1t, (e) liver, (f) sweetbread, (g) kidneys, (h) tripe and (i) tail? REDUCTION IN NUMBER OF QUESTIONS (2) What are the ruling wholesale prices PER MEMBER per lb. for these items? Mr. Marginson for Mr. Harvey, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Local (3) Has the high price of meat and Government,- the growing volume of meat sold by super­ Does he still think that three Questions markets had an effect on the traditional per Member are too many and does he corner butcher shop and is there any propose to answer only a maximum of appreciable cut-back in butcher-shop two per day? numbers? ( 4) Is monopoly handling in the retail Answer:- meat trade now centering around a few "I do not propose to enter into con­ big operators and the supermarkets and ttroversies over this matter but will assure is his department apprehensive of this the Honourable Member that I shall being prejudicial to the public's good? answer any questions that are directed to me in my capacity as Minister for Local Government and Electric1ty. In Answers:- the interests of all Honourable Members concerned, I fully subscribe to a proposal ( 1) "Approximate weights for certain that Questions be limi,ted to two per items of a 650 lb. bullock are as follows:- member per day either on notice or with­ Weight out notice." Brains 1 lb. Tongue 6 lb. Cheek 4 lb. CoMMONWEALTH AssiSTANCE To LocAL Heart 4! lb. AUTHORITIES Liver 12 lb. Mr. Gunn, pursuant to notice, asked The Sweetbread H lb. Premier,- Kidneys H lb. (!) Is he aware that some time ago Tripe 8 lb. the Commonwealth Minister for Labor Tail 2i lb." and Immigration invited local authorities in Queensland to submit a full report on (2) "Prices for offal fluctuate markedly the number of unemployed in their areas from day to day and there is a wide and also on the works programmes which range of prices for the various items. the shires considered necessary to relieve It is not practicable to give an average the situation? wholesale price." (2) As the shires have never even received acknowledgment of their sub­ (3) "There has been a reduction in the missions, let alone any financial assis,tance, number of tradittional butcher-shops in is the Commonwealth Government only recent years. Rapidly rising wages and grandstanding and have councils no guar­ overheads and decreased throughput at antee that any assistance will be forth­ some shops have had their effect. Super­ coming? markets have undoubtedly also been a contributing factor. However, the sur­ Answer:- vival of the efficiently operated butcher­ shop is probably assured. A recent survey (1 and 2) "Under the cumbersome carried out by the Marketing Services machinery which has been set up by the Branch in my department indicated that Commonwealth Government, the Honour­ 75 per cent. of housewives prefer the able Member would have to be a super­ personalised service provided by butcher­ optimist to expect an early decision on 'shops." local author1ty applications. In the mean­ time, the number of reg1stered unemployed ( 4) "Whilst there are a few big opera­ continues to multiply. Having in mind tors in the retail trade, the trade is all the promises made by the Common­ characterised by a large number of wealth Government, the local authorities independent competitive outlets. It is not in this State have every reason to be a fact that the retail me,at trade is becom­ sadly disillusioned." ing controlled by monopolistic interests." Questions Without Notice [29 OcTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice 1687

TARIFF REDUCTIONS ON IMPORTED If so, what action does he propose to preserve CANNED FoOD the privacy and dignity of the residents of Mr. Hartwig, pursuant to notice, asked that hostel? The Minister for Primary Industries,- Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: In reply, first let ( 1) With reference to a recent state­ me say that I know nothing whatsoever of ment by a prominent C.O.D. official that the "Elan" hostel being under surveillance Australia was being flooded with tinned by the Queensland Police. I hope and trust vegetables and canned pineapple juice that the hostel is being run in a manner from countries such as Taiwan, where fitting to the area in which it is situated and cheap labour is employed, and as it has that the people are playing the game by also been alleged that because of indis­ those in the neighbourhood. tinct labelling many housewives are mis­ takenly purchasing these goods in the LIQUIDITY PROBLEMS OF K. D. MORRIS & SONS belief that they are Australian-processed, PTY. LTD. what was the amount of canned foods and the value thereof imported into Australia Mr. LEE: I ask the Treasurer: In view of for 1973-74 as a result of tariff reductions the publicity given to the financial problems by the Commonwealth Government? associated with K. D. Morris & Sons Pty. Ltd., was the Deputy Leader of the Opposition (2) Does the labelling of these products correct in commenting that ,the State Govern­ comply with the food and drug regulations? ment would not help? Will the Treasurer indicate what assistance the Government did Answers:- offer in the hope of solving the company's liquidity problem? ( 1) "The 25 per cent. across the board reduction in tariffs was implemented by Sir GORDON CHALK: This question has the Commonwealth Government from July quite a bearing on the one asked by the 19, 1973. I>t is impossible to determine honourable member for Belmont. I believe the increased quantity of vegetables it is my responsibility to make a statement imported as a result of the tariff cuts. in relation to the affairs of the Morris organ­ However, some indication may be gained isation. In the last 48 hours or so statements by comparing imports for the periods have appeared in the Press that the Govern­ August to June 1972-73 and 1973-74. The ment should come to the assistance of K. D. value of these imports into Australia Morris & Sons. Let me say that during the increased from $6 · 1 minion in the period past 10 days I personally-and I have kept in 1972-73 to $15 · 8 million for >the similar in close contact with my Cabinet colleagues period in 1973-74." on this-have endeavoured to do what I could to assist the company as well as the (2) "The food and drug regulations associated subcontractors. come under the administration of my colleague, the Honourable the Minister It is true that the company has contracts for Health." for work totalling something like $60,000,000 in and near Brisbane. It is equally true that the performance of those contracts has been proceeding satisfactorily. However, the com­ QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE pany has encountered a liquidity problem LIQUIDITY PROBLEMS OF K. D. MORRIS & because it found it necessary to obtain fairly SONS PTY. LTD. large bank overdrafts in order to continue operations. Mr. NEWTON: I ask the Minister for The company itself has considerable assets, Works and Housing: As K. D. Morris & consisting, firstly, of what may be termed Sons Pty. Ltd. approached the Government tools of trade-those items essential for the for financial assistance some weeks ago, why conduct of a large organisation-and, was no announcement made at that time so secondly, speculative land dealings and as to make nominated subcontractors aware business undertakings. of the position concerning Government con­ tracts allocated to this firm? About a fortnight ago, after what has been described as the credit squeeze was Mr. HODGES: I was not aware of K. D. implemented-and there can be no doubt Morris making any approach to the Govern­ that finance has been difficult to obtain­ ment. Mr. Keith Morris approached me and placed before me the facts relating to the financial ALLEGED SURVEILLANCE OF ELAN HOSTEL problems confronting the company. I FOR LIBERAL PARTY CAMPAIGN PURPOSES immediately contacted Mr. Riding, the chair­ man of the board of the State Government Mr. NEWTON: I ask the Minister for Insurance Office. I indicated that I believed Conservation, Marine and Aboriginal Affairs: that there was a need for some assistance to Is he aware that the aboriginal hostel, "Elan", enable the company to overcome its liquidity at New Farm is constantly under surveillance problem. by people with cameras and that it is alleged The State Government Insurance Office that the photographs are to be used as elec­ was prepared, after an examination of the tion campaign material by the Liberal Party? assets-those which were mortgaged and 1688 Questions Without Notice [29 OcTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice those which were not-to come to the rescue attention. I have kept the Premier and of the company. I believe that, from a Cabinet Ministers fully advised during the general point of view, no major risk was past 10 days. We have done everything being taken by the State Government Insur­ possible to try to ensure that the company ance Office. On the basis that we took over can continue. the non-mortgaged assets of the company, we I believe, and I say quite openly now, were prepared to make an advance of that the company has a first-class record in $1,000,000, which was later raised to construction, and I believe also that $1,300,000. Had we been able to take over it has a first-class record in management, those assets of the company-the things that but it has run into liquidity problems the owner is unable to eat or the things that through the maladministration of Australia's are an investment which would not realise financial operations, and, from my point of their book value at the present time-we were view, the Government of Queensland will do prepared to make an advance in this direction everything it can to assist this company, from the State Government Insurance Office. or any other Queensland company, to retain Other parties are involved. I will not name its liquidity during the inflationary period the bank but it will probably become known through which this State and the Common­ in time. First of all a particular bank wealth are passing. advanced a major overdraft. The first part Wages have greatly increased and in tenders of it was on a fixed basis and the second by this company, and other companies in part was an extension of the first overdraft. Queensland, some of the inflationary trends The bank believed it was entitled to have the could not have been foreseen. Again after second part returned at the earliest possible the last Cabinet meeting, the Government time. Insurance companies and merchant indicated to certain companies in Queensland banks were involved also. They had a con­ that it will be prepared to look again at siderable sum of investment, if I can call it the fixed tender prices that they submitted, that, which ran to six figures. That may realising that directors and those responsible give the House some indication of the magni­ for calculation of tender prices had not tude of that borrowing. Furthermore, some been able to foresee some of the major creditors, in their desire to see the company inflationary trends that have occurred in continue, had refrained from asking for Australia. It has indicated to tenderers who immediate payment. These were the people have fixed prices for tenders in this State that with whom I had a conference. While we if they can show that, because of factors were prepared to make this offer and to take beyond their control, they are in dire straits over the non-mortgaged assets of the com­ financially, the Government, while not pro­ pany, those who had certain security were not tecting their profits, will ensure that they prepared to come to that arrangement. I have at least sufficient liquidity to enable could understand some of their problems. The contracts that they have taken up to be State Government Insurance Office or the finished without loss to them and without Government generally would have first claim affecting the continued employment of those to those things that were not mortgaged to in their employ. those creditors. Consequently, after consider­ That is the attitude of the Government, able discussion over a number of days, it was and it is one that I believe is in the realised that the proposal put forward by interests of not only the firm concerned but the S.G.I.O. on behalf of the Government also its employees, its subcontractors and would not be acceptable to the bankers or to the future of this State. the creditors. I have gone further. I have indicated that CHARGE AGAINST DR. REX PATIERSON, the same basis or proposal would be available MACKAY MAGISTRATES COURT to the company, provided those who hold Mr. AIKENS: I ask the Minister for the existing mortgages take over the non­ Justice; Is he aware that considerable per­ mortgaged assets that they want to take over turbation has been caused among Queens­ even at this particular time. If we could find landers by the seemingly farcical situation a situation where those who hold the mort­ created in the Magistrates Court at Mackay gages today will take over the total assets and yesterday when Dr. Rex Patterson's bail was will see that cheques are cleared and that the extended instead of being estreated and a company's affairs are provided with liquidity, bench warrant for his arrest in accordance the State Government Insurance Office, with­ with Queensland law was not executed, as out being dictatorial to the board in any way, would have been done in the case of any would be prepared to find the liquidity or, in other Queenslander similarly charged? If so, other words, find the $1,000,000 that would can he inform the House if there is any enable the company to carry on but we legal reason or precedent for this apparently would then require security from the banking preferential treatment being afforded to Dr. and insurance interests that are involved Patterson? because, after all, they would hold the total mortgaged assets of the company. Mr. KNOX: Mr. Speaker, I should bring to your attention that this matter is before So the Government has gone to its limits. the Magistrates Court in Mackay. Therefore, Without being egotistical I want to say that I think it should be noted by you that this is a matter to which I have given my full it is sub judice. If the honourable member Questions Without Notice [29 OcTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice 1689 for Townsville South wishes to brush up place unspecified. The Federal Government on knowledge of arrest and the freedom still has not acquired land and it does not of honourable members from molestation, he quite know where the hospital oug,.'lt to go. might care to read chapter 7 of Erskine May's "Parliamentary Practice". FEDERAL TREASURER'S STATEMENT ON UNEMPLOYMENT IN BUILDING INDUSTRY Q.A.T.B. CENTRE, TOWNSVILLE Mr. NEWBERY: I ask the Minister for Mr. AIKENS: I ask the Minister for Works and Housing: Has it been brought Health: Can he inform the House if any to his notice that on the radio news last solution has been reached, or if any is in Friday it was reported that Mr. Crean had the offing, of the problems connected with stated that he was unaware of any unem­ the Q.A.T.B. Centre at Townsville? ployment in the building industry? Would the Minister comment on that statement? Mr. TOOTH: The matters to which the honourable member refers, which he has Mr. HODGES: If Mr. Crean was cor­ brought to my notice by correspondence rectly reported as saying that there is no from time to time, have been referred to unemployment in the building industry, all the Crown Law Office for advice. Advice I can say is that Mr. Crean ought to take has recently been received that the matters another look at the position. If he made in which he is interested should be referred that statement, no wonder the Federal Gov­ to the police for investigation. In conse­ ernment is wallowing in such a morass of quence, the whole affair has been brought indecision and financial mess. Building to the notice of the Commissioner for Police approvals in the last three months have for any action he may deem proper, and dropped considerably. Figures for the Sep­ the whole problem, with the advice received, tember quarter will show a staggering 62 has been referred to the Chairman of the per cent drop in approvals. Those figures State Council of the Q.A.T.B., Sir Douglas indicate that there must be-and there is­ Fraser, and also to the Auditor-General. tremendous unemployment in the building industry and associated industries. I cannot SlTE OF PROPOSED NEW HOSPITAL help wondering how a man with the responsi­ bilities of Mr. Crean could make such a Mr. AIKENS: My next question without statement. notice is also directed to that very eminent and erudite gentleman, the Minister for Healtll: Can he give the House any reason INCREASED INTEREST RATES, QUEENSLAND for the determination by the Whitlam A.L.P. PERMANENT BUILDING SOCIETY Government to build a new hospital some­ where in Brisbane, the proposed site of Mr. BURNS: I ask the Treasurer: Is he which keeps fluctuating, and any reason why aware that in a letter to borrowers advising them of increases in repayments the Queens­ no suggestion has been made by it to build land Permanent Building Society uses the it elsewhere in the State other than the firm policy of the A.L.P. of greasing the fat words "Because of Government legislation we have had to raise our interest rates."? Brisbane pig or, to use the Latin phrase, As the Assembly was told at the time the "greasibus obeisibus porkubus Brisbanus". relevant legislation was introduced that the Mr. TOOTH: I must confess that I can­ building societies had requested the increase not quite follow the honourable member's in interest rates, will the Treasurer give dog Latin, but with regard to the rest of the lie to that statement designed to pass his question about the Whitlam Government the blame on to the political parties in being prepared to spend $20,000,000 on what Government in this State and at Federal I have referred to from time to time as a level? "quickie" hospital, this has been a matter Sir GORDON CHALK: I have not seen of consideration by myself and officers of the particular letter to which the honourable my department. Vve are in a position to member refers. If any building society has accept $20,000,000 for use in various parts of the State, because there are activities sent out such a letter I am astounded and going on, there are plans being developed, must say that it is entirely incorrect. and there are buildings being constructed OveT a period of time, the building societies according to plans that have been completed, have made approaches to the Government notwithstanding the completely false state­ to lift interest rates both for the moneys ments that are being made by Common­ taken in from investors and the moneys wealth spokesmen to the effect that we have passed out to borrowers. It is correct to say no plans. that over a long period of time concern I think the reason why the projected hos­ has been felt ,at Government level as to pital is to go somewhere in Brisbane is wha;t the intake rate and the lending rate that the proposal is designed to help Bill should be. Hayden in his electoral activities in the As honourable members know the State possible near-future Federal election. It was has an arrangement with the Commonwealth first to be established at Mt. Gravatt, later Savings Bank under which we have made at Inala, and now, on the latest statement available to us from time to time funds at of the Federal Minister for Health, at some a lower rate of interest than we would pay 1690 Questions Without Notice [29 OCTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice for similar moneys raised elsewhere. This Sir GORDON CHALK: Obviously the has been advantageous to the Queensland honourable member who has interjected is Government and for that reason we have not concerned for home-owners who borrow continued the arrangement. money. I pay the honourable member for As Treasurer, I was concerned some con­ Lytton full credit for asking this question. siderable time ago because, as a result of If building societies are attempting to blame building societies raising their interest rates, the State Government or the Commonwealth money was flowing from the savings bank Government for the need to increase their sector to the building societies. Whilst I interest rates, I say quite candidly to them am in full accord with the activities of that the State Government has merely acceded building societies and the part they play in to their request for assistance to maintain providing home finance, money was, as it their liquidity. I am concerned at this were, being taken out of one pocket available matter just as I am disturbed at the fact to the State and put into another. Although that the Prime Minister last night attempted this was to the State's ad\nant·age in one to blame me for what he described as a respect, it put the State at a disadvantage "run" on building societies. in another. It was for this reason that Mr. Davis: That's right. legislation was brought into this Chambe!l1 to peg the rate that building societies could Sir GORDON CHALK: You're as stupid pay on money invested with them and also as he is. the rate at which they could lend such No move was made by the State Govern­ funds. ment until Mr. Stitt, the executive director Building societies have expanded more of the building society movement, approached rapidly than we had expected and they have me at 3 o'clock one afternoon with a expended considerable sums on palatial prem­ written statement, asking if I would be ises and on advertising. From the building prepared to release it over my name. After societies' point of view, these things have conferring with my adviSers I had the been done to induce people to invest more statement slightly altered and released. It funds in this activity. I have no quarrel was an appeal to the Commonwealth Govern­ with that because, as I said, the societies ment to come to the rescue through the are playing an important part in the provision Reserve Bank. Whilst I might differ with of homes. the Federal Minister who was Acting Treas­ urer at that time (Mr. Hayden), at least in Following a general increase in interest fairness to him-- rates throughout Australia, hire-purchase and Mr. F. P. Moore interjected. other finance companies have been offering much higher interest rates than are being Sir GORDON CHALK: For God's sake, paid by building societies, so that the building shut up. This is a serious matter. Appar­ societies, in their turn, have been losing the ently the honourable member has no interest money which, as I pointed out, originally whatever in his electorate. He has made a came from people's savings bank accounts. perfect ass of himself in this Chamber. That money has been drifting away from Mr. F. P. Moore interjected. building societies into other forms of lending or securities. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I warn the hon­ Quite candidly building societies are ourable member for Mourilyan under dependent for their general liquidity on Standing Order 123A. money that comes in the front door. They Sir GORDON CHALK: As I have said, borrow money from me or from anyone I pay the honourable member for Lytton else and undertake that it will be repaid, full credit for asking this question. Obviously principally on demand. That money is the honourable member for Mourilyan has lent to a home-owner, who undertakes to no concern whatever for home-owners. In pay off his loan over a period of, say, 30 recent times he has not conducted himself years. Therefore, if a demand is made on very well in this Chamber. the building society in a month's time for the return of the money invested, it meets Mr. F. P. MOORE: I rise to a point of that demand by paying from money invested order. The Treasurer says I have mis­ in a month's time. The building society conducted myself in this Chamber. I'm directs Mr. Blo's money, for example, not going to accept that ning-nong's remarks. towards the construction of a home, so that when he asks for his money back again the Mr. SPEAKER: Order! society pays him with money invested by Mr. F. P. Moore: He has spent 11 minutes Mr. Smith at a higher rate of interest. on each of two questions today. The building societies found it necessary Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I regard the to ask for an increase in their interest rates. honourable member's comment as a reflection Their request was considered at Cabinet on the Chair. He will retire from the level. We realised that by granting an Chamber under the provisions of Standing increase in interest rates we would be placing Order 123A. a greater burden on home-owners. Whereupon the honourable member for Mr. F. P. Moore: Round off. Mourilyan withdrew from the Chamber. Questions Without Notice [29 OcTOBER 1974] Questions Without Notice 1691

Sir GORDON CHALK: I was [ndicating and, if so, is it his intention to follow that nnything done. by this Government the example of the A.L.P. Health Minister about happenings m a building society in Tasmania and consign the Queensland recently was done following a run on money allocation to the flames? in this city. We took acnion on advice tendered and on figures submitted to me. As Mr. TOOTH: I have pondered the posters I said a few minutes ago, I give credit to at some length, although the rumour that the then Acting Federal TreaSlllrer, who called a number of them have been used to repaper a meeting at 5 p.m. one day and indicated the walls of my office is not correct. The an hour later that the Reserve Bank would number of posters received~we have about render •assistance. We overcame our problems lO,OOO~presents us with something of an here. I do not know why Mr. Whitlam, embarrassment. I am reluctant to have them in branding me as responsible for what hap­ consigned to the flames. I do not quite pened, did not refer to the Premier of know how they will fit into our present South Australia, who went up and down propaganda against smoking, which is cur­ the street with a loud hailer~before I ever rently being concentrated upon the upper came into the operation~telling people that grades of the primary schools. However, there were no problems in the building today I was informed by the Health Educa­ society. tion Council of advice it received from Canberra that, if we do not want the posters, My reply to the honourable gentleman's they can be used in other States. I understand question is that !if there is such a letter in that the Honourable Don Dnnstan. Premier circulation I would like to have a copy of of South Australia, feels that the poster it to refer to the building society concerned. will fit into the trendy picture in his State.

PARTICIPATION BY PRIME MINISTER IN OPENING OF STONES CORNER BRANCH, QUEENSLAND ELECTORAL CAMPAIGN CHILDREN'S SERVICES DEPARTMENT Mr. FRAWLEY: I ask the Premier: In Mr. BROMLEY: I ask the Minister for view of a newspaper report that Mr. Whitlam, Tourism, Sport and Welfare Services: In known as the "dry-foot" leader, will campaign view of the publicity given to his opening in Queensland during the State election if of branch offices of the Children's Services the weather is fine and as Mr. Whitlam did Department in different areas yesterday, at not put in an appearance in Queensland what time did he open the Stones Corner during the January floods other than a brief branch and who were the invited official stopover at Eagle Farm, when he refused guests? to leave his aircraft in case his feet got wet, does the Premier consider that Mr. Whitlam Mr. HERBERT: I did not open the Stones is more concerned about some of his com­ Corner branch. rades in the Opposition losing their seats than he was about Queenslanders losing their Mr. Bromley: Well, you said in your Press homes and possessions? statement that you did. Mr. Bromley: A stupid question asked by Mr. SPEAKER: Order! a stupid idiot. Mr. Bromley: You shouldn't tell fibs. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Because of the interjections, I was not quite able to hear GOLD COAST CASINO the last part of the honourable member's Mr. BROMLEY: I ask the Minister for question. I understand that it relates to Mr. Local Government and Electricity: Is it a Whitlam's proposed visit to Queensland to fact that, prior to his becoming a Minister, help the Leader of the Opposition and his he continually told people publicly that he colleagues. I understand from Press reports would guarantee the construction of a casino that many Federal Ministers will be coming at the Gold Coast, even if he continued in to this State. The Opposition needs support, Parliament as a back-bencher? Have his but whether the presence of Federal Ministers views changed now that he has hit the big will help them remains to be seen. I believe time? If so, is this the deal he made to they should be coming to apologise to gain promotion over more competent Queenslanders who were affected by the members? floods, which of course would be much more to the point. Mr. HINZE: It is only because the hon­ ourable member made representations to me USE OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ANTI-SMOKING that I indicated I would be prepared to POSTER consider the establishment of a casino, a massage parlour, and other things .to satisfy Mr. AHERN: I ask the Minister for his requirements. Health: Has he now pondered sufficiently the anti-smoking poster "Till death us do Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The time allotted part" issued by the Federal Government for questions has now expired. 1692 Northumberland Insurance [29 0cTOBER:1974] Company Ltd., &c., Bill

NORTHUMBERLAND INSURANCE COM­ In all these instances of insurance company pANY LIMITED (MOTOR VEHICLES failures, appropriate legislation was enacted INSURANCE) BILL to enable the transference of claims to the Nominal Defendant (Queensland). The Bill INITIATION now before the Committee is similar to the legislation prepared then. Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ The Insurance Commissioner has advised Treasurer), by leave, without notice: I move- me that the notified outstanding claims could "That the House will, at its present amount to $47,000, with the probability sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of further claims being submitted, also that of the Whole to consider introducing a some recoveries may be made from reinsurers. Bill to provide indemnity to persons whose In keeping with precedents adopted in the motor vehicles were insured with the North­ earlier cases, it would be advisable to limit umberland Insurance Company Limited in the Nominal Defendant's total commitment compliance with the Motor Vehicles to a stated sum, say, $100,000. The Nominal Insurance Act 1936-1974, and for related Defendant (Queensland) raises no objection purposes, and to amend the Vehicle & to this course of action and the appropriate General Insurance Company (Australia) limit is prescribed in the Bill. Ltd. (Motor Vehicles Insurance) Act 1971 As the Main Roads Department is holding in a certain particular." some motor vehicle insurance premiums col­ Motion agreed to. lected from motorists on behalf of the Northumberland Insurance Company Limited in respect of insurance extending beyond the INITIATION IN COMMITTEE date of liquidation, legislative authority will (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) be required to authorise that department to refund those premiums or relevant portions Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ thereof to the motorists concerned. Appro­ Treasurer) (3.28 p.m.): I move- priate provision is provided in clause 15 of 'That a Bill be introduced to provide the Bill. indemnity to persons whose motor vehicles The Insurance Commissioner recently were insured with the Northumberland raised a related problem with me concerning Insurance Company Limited in compliance the total commitment of $125,000 provided with the Motor Vehicles Insurance Act in the Vehicle & General Insurance Com­ 1936-1974, and for related purposes, and to pany (Australia) Ltd. (Motor Vehicle Insur­ amend the Vehicle & General Insurance ance) Act of 1971. It is now apparent that Company (Australia) Ltd. (Motor Vehicles the commitment of the Nominal Defendant Insurance) Act 1971 in a certain particular." (Queensland) as prescribed in that Act could Honoura!:lle members will probably have be inadequate to meet the claims received, read in the daily press that the Northumber­ and it is now desired to increase that limit land Insurance Company Limited was in to $155,000. Obviously it would be unfair financial difficulties and that I had issued to the outstanding claimants if the Nominal a warning to members of the public to take Defendant (Queensland) now had to inform action to protect their interests. them that it has reached the limit of its authorised expenditure and can no longer The Insurance Commissioner had drawn proceed to settle their claims. my attention to the situation and the resulting position of outstanding comp>ulso.ry third­ Provision has been made accordingly in party motor vehicle insurance claims. As a the Bill for the maximum commitment of provisional liquidator has been appointed for the Nominal Defendant (Queensland) under the company, he recommended that the the Vehicle & General Insurance Company Nominal Defendant (Queensland) undertake (Australia) Ltd. (Motor Vehicle Insurance) a rescue operation. It is only in this way Act of 1971 to be increased from $125,000 that injured claimants will be able to obtain to $155,000. a satisfactory settlement of their claims. The Bill simply enables the Nominal Honourable members will recall that similar Defendant to stand in the place of the urgent action was taken on previous occasions insurance companies and pay the due claims. in respect of the failure of the Standard Claims made could total the amount included Insurance Company Limited, the Seven Seas in the Bill. However, recoveries and reinsur­ Insurance Company Limited and, more ance payments will be credited to the Nominal recently, the Vehicle & General Insurance Defendant Fund as they are received, and Company (Australia) Ltd. it is expected that the eventual net cost to the fund will be small. Mr. Davis: They are all going broke. I believe that all honourable members Sir GORDON CHALK: The honourable will appreciate the circumstances in which member for Brisbane says that they are all some people find themselves. The Bill is going broke. That is what comes as the for the assistance of those people, and result of actions of the Canberra administra­ I believe it will have the full support of tion, which the honourable member so loyally all honourable members. I commend the supports. motion to the Committee. Northumberland Insurance [29 OCTOBER 1974] Company Ltd., &c., Bill 1693

Mr. TUCKER (Townsville West-Leader owed between $50,000 and $100,000. It of the Opposition) (3.35 p.m.): On behalf of was a very sorry state of affairs and it is the Opposition, I indicate that we will cer­ continuing. tainly allow the introduction of this Bill. At that time, I urged the Government We are all acutely and painfully aware of to convene an all-party committee to inquire the need to assist people when such crashes into motor vehicle and third-party insurance of insurance companies occur. because I was not in agreement with what Mr. Chinchen: Why is it? was happening in this field. Comprehensive motor vehicle insurance and third-party Mr. TUCKER: Well, let us look at it. insurance rates were both escalating and I A statement appeared in "The Courier-Mail" asked for the establishment of a non-partisan of the 15th of this month reading- committee to examine the circumstances which led to the frightening rise which had "A petition was presented in the Supreme already taken place in comprehensive motor Court yesterday seeking the winding-up vehicle insurance and the threatened rise in of Northumberland Insurance Company third-party insurance. There is still need for Ltd., of Queen Street, Brisbane. an all-party committee to inquire into the "The petition was presented on behalf insurance industry. Members of the public of ABC Body Works, Pty. Ltd., which who have suffered financial loss as the result claimed that the company was owed of action taken by the insurance companies $5,974 by Northumberland Insurance." to go into liquidation could be given an I have no doubt that others also would opportunity to state their case to such a be owed money, but it is always one com­ committee. pany which files the petition. The article I believe that we should set up a com­ continues- mittee similar to that constituted in 1961 "The petitioners said that they had been under the then Treasurer, Sir Thomas Hiley. told that a liquidator had been appointed That committee met in that year and again in to take over the affairs of Northumberland 1962. However, it did not function after the Insurance in New South Wales." 1963 State election. It considered the setting up of an insurance trust to which all insur­ This crash occurred in New South Wales ance companies would contribute and from as well as in Queensland. The report further which all third-party claims would be met. says- The aspect of reducing administrative and " At June 30, 1973 Northumberland had legal costs by way of settlement of claims accumulated a loss of $917,927, the without litigation was examined. It was petition said." proposed that accident reports from doctors, the police and hospitals would be sent direct The loss is approximately $1,000,000, but to the insurance trust office so that long the final figure would probably be slightly battles over settlement could be avoided. I more than that. would expect an all-party committee to con­ Virtually every member of this Assembly sider proposals such as that. would be aware that, over a considerable It is also right to say that an all-party period of time, people have been hurt by committee should examine the whole rami­ the crashes, if I may use that word, of fications of insurance business in Queensland. various insurance companies. Not so long Some insurance companies attract clients by ago-I think in June 1974-Queenslanders making a wide variety of tempting offers. suffered losses through the failure of General Eventually some of the insurance companies Mutual Insurance Co. and its subsidiary as well as their policyholders pay the penalty. Motorists Mutual Ltd. People were left with­ I believe that such investigations have been out insurance cover. Many came to me and carried out in other States. my colleagues and pointed out that they had paid their premiums the day before At the time when General Mutual Insur­ this company went into liquidation. Many ance Co. and its subsidiary Motorists Mutual others also suffered substantial loss through Ltd. when into liquidation, the Insurance non-payment of claims they had lodged Commissioner, Mr. Rutherford, was reported about the time. They had sorry stories to as having said, '·I could have given notice of tell. At that time I requested the Treasurer, intention to suspend or cancel General and through him the Insurance Commissioner Mutual's insurance if I had grounds for doing (Mr. Rutherford), to make a public state­ so. The grounds would have been that I was ment in regard to these companies. Surely not satisfied it could pay its debt." He added, they would have some idea of what is hap­ however, words to the effect that he had no pening in the insurance field. Policyholders jurisdiction to investigate the company's should not be allowed to pay in premiums operations in Victoria and that a search of the day before a company such as this goes the Queensland office would not have given into liquidation. sufficient information. I suggest tha:t some­ thing similar is happening now in relation to Mr. Jensen interjected. the Northumberland Insurance Company. Mr. TUCKER: Small businesses also were The Treasurer has said that the Nominal involved in this company's liquidation. Some Defendant will come to the rescue and that Queensland panel beaters were, at that time, he has increased the maximum commitment ss 1694 Northumberland Insurance [29 OcTOBER 1974] Company Ltd., &c., Bill of the Nominal Defendant to $155,000. Mr. WRIGHT: The committee on crime Although that sum seems to be a large one, and punishment was well worth while. H I am not convinced that it will be sufficient was a good example of what can be achieved to meet all claims made by injured persons by select committees. Obviously there is a against motorists whose compulsory third­ need for greater Government supervision of party insurance is carried by the Northumber­ investments made by various insurance com­ land Insurance Company. If previous panies. We have made it very easy for them insurance crashes are any guide, I doubt to invest in all areas but with a credit squeeze; whether $155,000 will be sufficient to meet in the community or a tightening of the; the commitments of this company. economy they go to the wall. We never seem to know about it in advance and it applies The Opposition puts forward no argument to companies other than insurance compan­ against the Treasurer's proposal. Before I ies. The Minister for Justice told us thi~ conclude, however, I again urge the Treasurer morning !!hat earlier this year the Govern­ to make a thorough investigation of the acti­ ment was aware of the problems confronting vities of insurance companies to ascertain Carrigans Pty. Ltd. but nothing could be their financial standing. The Insurance Com­ done. A call was made to check their books; missioner should be given sufficient jurisdic­ they procrastinated, and many hundreds of tion to make inquiries and warn the public people in the State were caught. The same is. that a certain insurance company is having true of insurance companies. We never seem financial difficulties. to know until the axe falls, but by then it is The Treasurer said that on this occasion too late. he warned people of what might happen to Mr. Chinchen: Dr. Coombs would-- a certain insurance company. I realise that a warning probably amounts to the death Mr. WRIGHT: Let us forget about DL knell of the company concerned, but we Coombs for the moment. This started long have to look at both sides of the picture before Whitlam won the Treasury benches in and make a decision. In this context, I am Canberra and it will persist. on the side of the people. On the last I agree with the interjection made earlier occasion when an insurance company failed, by the honourable member for Bundaberg. many people lost a lot of money through If a young man steals $1 0 we send him to non-payment of claims for car damage. prison. The select committee on which the Others paid premiums the day before the honourable members for Brisbane and company went into liquidation and there was Belmont and I served visited the Brisbane no way in the world that they could get a prison and saw a young prisoner who was refund. serving five years' gaol for stealing $10. But what do we do to the companies that steal In the light of those necessary observa­ millions of dollars from the people of tions, I point out on behalf of the Opposition Queensland? We introduce legislation to that we will not oppose the introduction of protect the insured (and that is fair enough). the measure. We will certainly examine it but very little is done about punishing the prior to the second-reading stage, following people who scoop the pool and make mil­ which we may move some amendments. lions. Millions of dollars are lost. These Generally speaking, we welcome its introduc­ people are corporate criminals. I agree with tion. Ralph Nader that it is time we did something Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (3.46 p.m.): to get at these people but we do not seem to I rise to support the Leader of the Opposition be able to do anything. and concur with the Treasurer that the Mr. Chlnchen: You are getting at them measure is certainly worth while. I agree now. with my leader that we should support it at this stage and reserve the right to look very Mr. WRIGHT: I am having my say about carefully at the Bill when it is printed. them. If the honourable member were con­ cerned about the ordinary people who took For some time I have been concerned out these insurance policies, he would agree about the number of insurance companies with me that there is a real need for greater going bust. I think of companies which, in control over companies generally. There the last few years, have cost investors many should be greater power of ministerial inspec­ millions of dollars. Ordinary people are tion. We should be able to stop the starting to ask what protection they really procrastination that takes J?lace; when inspec­ have. They are saying that there is need for tions are ordered. Lt 1s time that we greater Government control of insurance established a committee as proposed by the companies. As my leader said, an all-party Leader of the Opposition. We should have a committee should be set up. Surely it would select committee to investigate the whole field be a wise move to establish a select com­ of insurance in Queensland. mittee on insurance so that members on both sides of the Chamber who are interested in Mr. JENSEN (Bundaberg) (3.50 p.m.): The. the subject could investigate insurance com­ Treasurer was hoping I would not enter panies and schemes in Queensland. this debate, but I want to comment on the smart salesmen who take advantage oJ: Mr. Tucker: The last committee of which the gullibility of people. It is the smart you were a member served a good purpose. salesman who promotes the business of Northumberland Insurance [29 OcTOBER 1974] Company Ltd., &c., Bill 1695

insurance. In some fields the Consumer Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ Affairs Bureau has done something about Treasurer) (3.54 p.m.), in reply: Having the smart salesman for the benefit of the listened to the remarks of Opposition speakers, ordinary, common man. I say that broadly I agree with their expres­ Mr. R. E. Moore: Who said we're sions of opinion, although perhaps not with common? the exaggerations of the honourable member for Bundaberg. Mr. Lee: ·we're not common at all. It appears that two things concern the Mr. JENSEN: The honourable members Oppo~ition. One is the strict supervision of are very common. insmance companies and the other is the control of investment. Mr. Lee: The ordinary, average man. The Leader of the Opposition and the Mr. JENSEN: You, Mr. Lickiss, will show honourable member for Rockhampton refer­ those honourable members just how common red to what might be described as bad invest­ they are if they continue to carry on in ment. Let me point out that the investments that way. that have gone bad in Queensland have not Smart salesmen operate in door-to-door been investments made by Queensland­ selling of books and articles for the home. established and Queensland-controlled com­ They give their sales spiel and put it over panies. The bad investments, particularly the householders. That happens with insur­ in the three companies to which we are ance, a field in which it should not be making some reference, have come from allowed. People who enter into insurance the South. contracts expect to be fully covered. They The Insurance Commissioner in this State trust the insurance company to honour its has administration and jurisdiction over the promises. But today most Government mem­ operations of insurance companies in Queens­ bers believe "If you get caught you're a land but he cannot go outside this State. mug, and if you're a mug it serves you right." Something 1ike 15 companies have got into The public deserve some protection. I difficulty in recent times. They have all been know that the Consumer Affairs Bureau has southern companies. Whilst our State record helped. My leader has said that that pro­ is unfortunate, it is extremely good when we tection should be extended to insurance, consider that we have been involved in only and I agree wholeheartedly. As I have three of these companies. said before, most of the time it is nothing The honourable member for Bundaberg but sales spiel of smaller premiums and better wants to have people gaoled for selling bad over-all cover that induces people to insure insurance or for tendering misleading advice. with a particular company. When the money Again I do not disagree with this. collected in premiums is unwisely invested in shares, in business or land dealings, it The very points that have been raised by is the small person who suffers. What honourable members have already been cared happens to those responsible? They escape for because the Commonwealth Government punishment. I say that they should be passed an Act which came into operation on gaoled-and for a long term. A director 1 August 1974 providing for the supervision of an insurance company that goes broke of insurance companies throughout Australia. should be made to suffer. When the Stan­ If my memory serves me correctly, its origins hill companies went broke, Korman was go back not to the present Labor Govern­ gaoled for six months. He robbed the ment in Canberra but to when John Gorton people of huge sums of money. The director was Prime Minister. He advocated it. I am of a big company, especially in the insur­ not trying to attach any political kudos to ance field, should be severely punished if the it. It is something that has been seen by both company goes into liquidation. lines of political philosophy and it is now in operation. However, it will take some Mr. Wright: They should gaol them. time for it to be fully implemented. The problems that the Leader of the Opposition Mr. JENSEN: Of course-and not for has seen in connection with insurance acti­ six months but 16 years. The honourable vities in this State have been provided for in member for Rockhampton spoke earlier of that Commonwealth legislation. All I can a youth gaoled for stealing $10. I know hope is that the administration will be such a person who stole a packet of tobacco, that there will not be a repetition of the need !ost his job for it and was fined into the for that Act or the Bill that I am introducing. bargain. He lost his long service leave and superannuation, too--all because of a People believe in taking out insurance, packet of tobacco! He was more than doubly Sometimes I wonder why they drift to penalised. On the other hand, these criminals particular companies. Far be it from me to can rob the people day after day and get belittle any company but occasionally certain away with it. Provision should be put in companies advertise very cheap premiums. the Act for the imposition of a minimum After my personal calamity in the Australia sentence of 10 years for those people Day floods, a number of people and I responsible for an insurance company that received circular letters outlining insurance goes broke and robs the people of Australia. rates for flood cover. I was astounded at the 1696 Racing and Betting Act [29 OCTOBER 1974) Amendment Bill difference. When I made inquiries I found are distributed to the mcing industry, partic­ that one company was gambling that such ularly to the race clubs, make it unnecessary heavy flooding would not happen again for for me to add anything further. 80 years, that a second company was gambl­ ing that it would not happen for 50 years, Mr. DAVIS (Brisbane) (4.4 p.m.): Members and that the third company was working on of the Opposition canvassed fairly widely the basis of 20 years. So the basis for the at the introductory stage the proposals con­ difference in premiums becomes obvious. If tained tin the Bill. the calamity recurred, for argument's sake, three times in the next 80 years, I venture to Mr. R. E. Mooce: You spoke for half a say that the company that gambled on 80 minute fiat. years could not possibly stand up to the Mr. W. D. Hewitt: They all had a bit pay-out involved. of a go. Generally speaking, all persons insuring should at least check the reputation of the Mr. DAVIS: Yes, a number of honourable company and deal with an organisation that members on this side had a bit of a run. is either Australia-wide or is Queensland­ The honourable member for Windsor did not backed if it is a Queensland company. If participate. As I said, the proposals were that were done, some of the problems with fairly widely aired at the introductory stage. which we are faced today would not arise. The Treasurer did not take up many of the challenges that were thrown out to him. As I said, I appreciate the Opposition's He did not tell the Assembly about the point of view. secrecy involved in the T.A.B. Mr. Tucker: Most of us on this side As to the increased deductions from of the Chamber are worried that the Premier doubles and trebles bets, namely, from 15 might move that the Commonwealth Act per cent to 17t per cent and from 15 does not apply to Queensland. per cent to 20 per cent respectively, I dis­ agree with the Treasurer's reply at the intro­ Sir GORDON CHALK: If the Leader of ductory stage that it was far better to take the Opposition wants me to become involved in the increased percentage from doubles and the issue of Commonwealth and State rights, trebles bets rather than the ordinary win let me assure him that anything that is for and place bets. Whether a person bets for the good of Queensland and for the good a win, for a place, on a double or on a of the people of Australia will have the treble, he makes a single bet. After the full support of the Premier, just as it will trebles bettor gets his first two winners in, have my full support. he does not say, "I will have a draw on I believe that the proposed Bill is very the pool now." necessary because it will protect certain people. For that reason, I commend the We will not be opposing the Bill, but motion to the Committee. we would have preferred it if the Treasurer had provided more money for racing out Momon (Sir Gordon Chalk) agreed to. of the Government's take from the T.A.B. pool. I agree that something has to be Resolution reported. done to assist the race clubs. From the deputations I and my colleagues have FIRST READING received, we realise that they are in a Bill presented and, on motion of Sir Gor­ financial predicament. don Chalk, read a first time. We quite agree with the clause that legalises the return to the development fund. Perhaps the Treasurer in his reply would RACING AND BETTING ACT be kind enough to deal with the clause AMENDMENT BILL covering unclaimed dividends. I have been interviewed by people who have made bets SECOND READING at places like Southport and Rocklea but Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ who found themselves in a difficult situation Treasurer) (4.3 p.m.): I move- because they had lost their tickets. I have "That the Bill be now read a second always been able to get satisfaction when I time." have written to the Treasurer or his staff on such matters. Perhaps he might like to In introducing the Bill, I said that it was clarify that clause of the Bill. principally in accordance with the outline given in the State Budget. I indicated the Apart from that, we have discussed the basis of the increased take in relation to the Bill fully, and have no objections to it. total amount of T.A.B. investment, and the formula for distribution of these funds. Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ Although other minor matters are raised in Treasurer) (4.8 p.m.), in reply: I have lis­ the Bill, I believe that the manner in which tened to the remarks of the honourable its broad principles were received by the member for Brisbane, who has the respon­ Opposition and the desire of all of us in sibility of speaking on behalf of the Opposi­ this Chamber to see that additional funds tion on legislation of this nature. Racing and Betting, &c., Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Aborigines Act and, &c., Bill 1697

As to the additional take from doubles Honourable members would be surprised and trebles bets, I gave due consideration to know how many of these I sign almost to this matter before I brought the pro­ daily. I can understand a person occasionally posals forward, and I disagree with the losing a betting ticket, but the number of honourable member in that direction. We tickets lost at race meetings is astounding. could have taken an extra 1 or 2 per cent And quite often a claim is not made for a from the ordinary, single win and place considerable period. I am not quite sure of bet. We would have got more money that people's habits, whether it takes them a long way. As one who has been closely associ­ time to remember or what the circumstances ated with racing over the last 40 years, I might be, but if they do come forward and know that that would affect the small bettor. establish their claims they receive their The small bettor has his 50c or $1 here dividends by way of ex-gratia payments. and there, and very often places four or Generally speaking, the administration of five bets in one race. I felt that we would the T.A.B. is very good. As it has grown, so be penalising the small punter if we increased has the responsibility of the board and those the take from that pool. administering it. I have a very high regard If the take is increased, the pool is reduced, for the present manager (Mr. Cox), the but the number of winning tickets is not secretary (Mr. Whitby) and others closely reduced, and the end result is that the associated with the administration. They are dividend can be much smaller. On the operating under some difficulty at present, other hand, the person who takes trebles particularly in regard to office space. I am bets very often invests $20 or $30 in that hoping that with the completion of the new way. In fact, I could cite trebles invest­ headquarters we will have not only ample ments exceeding three figures. Such bettors room, but also computerised equipment and are born gamblers. Good luck to them! eventually selling machines. They couple the field in two races with one Collectively, these improvements will lead particular horse, and might put $80 or $100 to better service. They will eliminate some on one leg of the treble. Of course, when of the window delays about which the three favourites come home the man who honourable member for Brisbane spoke at the has made the big investment falls by the introductory stage. It is true that in some wayside, but that is his funeral. On the offices some windows are closed. On the other hand, if he collects in my opinion other hand, there are rush periods in this he does not miss the reduction that is business and, if all windows had to be opened made from the major pool in the interests and staffed, the T.A.B. would have to employ of racing clubs. large numbers of extra staff for short periods. This would entail considerable extra After due consideration, I came to the expenditure which would have to come out conclusion that we would lift the doubles of both the punters' funds and the amount deduction by U per cent and the trebles available for race clubs. I have asked the deduction by 5 per cent. As I emphasised general manager to pay particular attention previously, this additional money will no1 to any area in which complaints are made, find its way into Consolidated Revenue at the and I am certain that the situation will be present time but wiH go back to the T.A.B. remedied. Finally, I thank members of the administration to meet additional costs and Opposition for their approbation of this Bill. for distribution to the clubs. This increase Motion (Sir Gordon Chalk) agreed to. in the T.A.B.'s take for the coming 12 months, which we think is fair, will prove CoMMITTEE beneficial to clubs throughout the State. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, The honourable member also referred to Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) lost betting tickets. As the Act stands, after Clauses 1 to 6, both inclusive, as read, a certain period the money involved in lost agreed to. tickets finds its way back to the administra­ Bill reported, without amendment. tion. On the other hand, if a person has lost a betting ticket, all he needs do is report his THIRD READING loss to the T.A.B. office. In its turn, that office advises the Treasury. In fact, the person Bill, on motion of Sir Gordon Chalk, by himself can write to the Treasury direct. A leave, read a third time. check is made through the operations of the office from which the ticket was purchased and if it is obvious that the amount was ABORIGINES ACT AND TORRES STRAIT invested and the dividend remains unpaid, an ISLANDERS ACT AMENDMENT BILL ex-gratia payment is made. Because a punter INITIATION does not always know the dividend paid, the amount of the dividend does not matter. All Hon. N. T. E. HEWIIT (Auburn-Minister he has to state is that he invested $10 or 50c for Conservation, Marine and Aboriginal at a particular T.A.B. office. Then, at the end Affairs), by leave, without notice: I move­ of three months, if the dividend has not been "That the House will, at its present claimed, that person will receive an ex-gratia sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of payment equal to the dividend on the bet. the Whole to consider introducing a Bill 1698 Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill

to amend the Aborigines Act 1971 and reserves as they would exercise them else­ the Torres Strait Islanders Act 1971, each where in the State; they increased the strength [n certain particulars." of an aboriginal council to five persons and Motion agreed to. subsequent amendments ensured that all councillors are elected by the electors on the reserve; they extended much greater INITIATION IN COMMITTEE responsibility to these councillors for self­ {The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, determination, including power to approve Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) or refuse applications for entry to a reserve. Hon. N. T. E. HEWITT (Auburn-Minister They were, in effect, sweeping changes. for Conservation, Marine and Aboriginal But it was never intended that here matters Affairs) (4.18 p.m.): I move- should rest and lie dormant for another five, "That a Bill be introduced to amend 10 or 15 years or that everyone should the Aborig[nes Act 1971 and the Torres compliment each other and say, "Well done". Strait Islanders Act 1971, each in certain The social growth of Queensland's Torres particulars." Strait Islander and Aboriginal citizens Many honourable members will recall that, towards the basic social norm of all other when I introduced the legislation in Novem­ Queenslanders has accelerated so rapidly over the past decade that no-one in the early ber 1971, I said that Laws made for a 60's could have envisaged the progress since community can never have real meaning then. Therefore, as I said earlier, any legis­ unless they take into account what the people want and what theN- needs are. My lation if it is to meet the needs and wishes of the people to whom it will apply, belrief that these are the two aspects of must keep pace with social change. The new paramount consideration remains unchanged Acts each had built into them a duration because they comprise the only base upon clause of five years, but nevertheless both the which can be built policies affecting human life and conduct. Premier and myself have assured the advisory councils that the Acts would be amended That is why for many years all matters £rom time to time if this was their desire. of policy or law affecting the Aborig[nes or Torres Stmh Islanders in QueensLand The Acts have now been in force for almost two years. Some changes in their reflect their own wishes and feelings. regulations occurring earlier this year, and This has been done through close and more will follow shortly, mainly relating to full consultation between the Government use and sale of liquor on Aboriginal reserves and the advi&ory councils, that is, the and the construction of Aboriginal courts Aboriginal Advisory Council and the Torres based on the advisory council recommenda­ Strait Islander Advisory Council. tions. Both councils were given statutory recogni­ The Bill which I now introduce tion in the 1971 Acts, which the councillors represents the first amendments in this time were, incidentally, instrumental in drafting, to the principal Acts themselves. They arise after formally ·advising the Government for from recommendations made to me by the some years before this. All advisory coun­ advisory councils after their most recent meet­ cillors were elected to hold office by the ing in Brisbane last week. people of the particular reserve wrnch they Both the councillors and the Government represent. have always recognised that an Aborigine or I am happy to be able to say that a Islander has every right to manage his relationship of trust, mutual respect and own property without help from the Queens­ confidence has endured at all times between land department if this is his desire. At no the Government and the advisory councils. time since the Acts came into operation These are principles which, unfortunately, in December 1972 has an application by might not be found in other areas of society a person wishing to take his property away today and it is refreshing to realise that from departmental management been refused. they dominate the interchange of thoughts In fact great administrative efforts have been and views which proceeds through these made to ensure that the many thousands councils. of Aborigines and Islanders were approached When the Acts and their regulations became and expressed their desire in this regard. law in December 1972 they produced sig­ However it does appear that in a strict nificant changes from the repealed legislation sense the written words as expressed in the which had been introduced in 1965. As I Acts place some doubt on a person's legal have said they ratified the existence of the right to freedom of choice over property advisory councils but their aim became management. The Bill, which I introduce, directed only to the conduct of reserves will remove that doubt, and I commend and the grant of assistance to Aborigines it to the Committee. or Torres Strait Islanders who, of their own Mr. WALUS-SMITH (Cook) (4.24 p.m.): volition, chose to seek it. It is a strange coincidence that Acts and They allowed beer to be sold on reserves regulations dealing with Aboriginal and through canteens; they enabled Queensland Island people have a knack of being intro­ police officers to exercise their powers on duced into this Chamber just before the Aborigines Act and Torres [29 0CTOBERl1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill 1699

end of a session of Parliament and rushed sale controlled by requiring that the empty through with undue haste-a course highly containers be returned, many problems could undesirable when we are dealing with people. be overcome. I was unable to follow the Minister's On the subject of beer, the Minister men­ outline of the details of the proposed ~mend­ tioned in his speech that one of the improve­ ments, but from the Press I learned that ments to be effected was that the Queens­ they concern people on reserves being allowed land police had been stationed at Communi­ to take liquor to their homes and that the ties and act just as they do anywhere else in form of dealing with their property is to be the State; the fact that it is a reserve does not amended. Both these matters are clearly matter. However, an earlier section of the covered by the Acts and regulations. I was Act states that a warrant has to be issued hoping for a statement from the Minister before a person can enter a dwelling on an detailing the actual wording of the amend­ investigation. I have seen with my own eyes ment or that the wording would have been Queensland police officers walk into a house distributed to members of the Opposition. looking for beer and spirits. This causes The wording of both the parts I have referred confusion and tension and, in those isolated to-that is, liquor and the management of areas, tension can get out of hand quickly. property-leaves a lot to be desired. Mr. Lee: What 'lid you do about it? I will deal with the latter first. I have said many, many times that the wording relating Mr. W ALUS-Sl\HTH: That interjection to the management of property has been the shows how ignorant the honourable member cause of much misunderstanding and con­ is. I am making a constructive speech to fusion in the minds of the Aborigines as well prove that the Minister should go further in as many public servants who administer the controlling the supply of beer to various regulation. I wonder whether this is what places. Other parts of the Act should be the Minister is amending. I am not sure explained to the residents. In no time there that it is. He did not say that Schedule II would be understanding. would be eliminated. It appears in the regu­ lations as form number 2. If it is to be It was only when Mr. Stewart mentioned eliminated from the regulation, I agree. But in the Premier's hearing or to the Premier wouldn't it be worth while to find out that he wanted certain parts of the Act whether the people really want their property amended that the Premier said the Act would to be managed? Surely they should be put be amended. I have asked for this amend­ on the same footing as other Queenslanders. ment time and time again but my words have On the other hand, the older people should fallen on deaf ears. Suddenly, the chairman be considered. They have been governed by of the adv,isory council comes along and asks this all their lives and may wish to continue for certain parts of the Act to be amended, in that way. Some allowance should be made and that is what happens. for them. I repeat that the amendment is being made hastily, and I do not understand The advisory council met this week. Land in what way it is to be made. rights were mentioned at the meeting but they never appear in any amendment to the Dealing with the sale of liquor for home Act. These people are worried about many c_onsumption, I would have thought that, once things other than the management of their liquor was supplied to the communities and property and whether they can take beer to reserves that requested it, a very strong and their houses or not. active campaign should have been mounted I shall study the Bill when it is printed. to educate Aborigines on a better and more I hope it sets out clearly how the Act will be sensible way of drinking. Other people go to amended. I regret that the Minister was not a hotel, buy a beer and, when that is finished, more clear and precise in introducing the Bill buy a second one. If they are drinking cans so that we could know whether we were on of beer the same applies. However, on the the right ground. Until we see the Bill and reserve six containers at a time are sold discover exactly what ,is contained in it, we to the one person. If the man's wife wants reserve our rights. six, he buys 12. If his father goes to the bar with him he gets 18. That is the way the beer is sold. Mr. LANE (Merthyr) (4.32 p.m.): Some honourable members may think it unusual If the Aborigines say that is the way that a member representing a metropolitan they want it, all right; but they have never electorate, as I do, has an interest in this been taught a more sensible approach to problem. It is a subject in which I have drinking. The sale of beer has caused more been interested for many years. The Bill trouble and confusion than it should. Beer seeks to amend the Aborigines Act and the is a beverage sought by many Australians, Torres Strait Islanders Act which were intro­ and I do not deny them that right. However, duced in 1971. During the years in which I I point out to the Minister that no effort had experience of Aborigines, the legislation was made to encourage a more sensible and was the Aborigines' and Torres Strait Island­ acceptable way of drinking, nor has an ers' Affairs Act. For some years I was a attempt been made to keep cleaner the Protector of Aboriginals under that Act, and places at which the beer is sold. If the I had considerable experience in handling the containers were sold one at a time and the problems of the indigenous people in the 1700 Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill

Far No~th West of this country. It is there­ the establishment of the hostel. The honour­ fore with some 15 or 20 years' experience able member either spends too much time that I speak in this debate. under a lap-lap or does not really understand the problem. I should like to outline the difference between the attitudes adopted to Aboriginal Since the hostel has been opened, I have afliairs by the State and Commonwealth had conversations with the manager of the administrations. It is demonstrated partly by establishment, and also with the manager the amendments contained in the Bill which of Aboriginal Hostels Limited for Australia. indicate the responsible approach adopted by I have found it necessary on several occasions the Queensland Minister compared with that to telephone him in Canberra, and four of the Commonwealth Government. Recently, times I have had occasion to call the police when an Aboriginal hostel was established in to this particular area to deal with problems Moray Street in my electorate, the Common­ ?-nsmg from alcoholics and drunks Jying wealth's irresponsible attitude towards the m the gutters and about the streets in the needs of Aborigines was brought home very area. One might ask why. It is because of sharply to me and a number of my con­ the hasty action of the Commonwealth Gov­ stituents. I refer to what was formerly ernment in establishing the hostel on an known as the Elan Motm Inn. It is a palatial unsuitable site that plainly has no grounds motel-type building s~tua ted in the heart of in which persons who would necessarily be one of the plushest re>idential suburbs of idle all day could sit or walk about. What Brisbane. The building covers at least 85 happens? They spill out onto the footpath, per cent of tJhe area of land on which it and the playground of the drunks from the stands. It is a building to which those hostel and, unfortunately, the playground of residing in it have open access from both the the children, some of whom are mixed in street in front and the street at the back, with them in that place, is Moray Street, and also from both sides. So it is not possible New Farm, and the surrounding streets the to maintain any real degree of supervision river bank, vacant blocks of land, h~uses over the residents of the hostel. that are unoccupied and the like in that suburb. In establishing the hostel, the Common­ wealth Government, through its subsidiary On each side of the hostel building-as Aboriginal Hostels Limited, acted quite I said earlier, the doors of the hostel open deliberately against the advice of myself and onto. t~e properties on each side without any my colleague Senator Nevi!le Bonner, a restnctwn and cannot be supervised-are member of the board of Aboriginal Hoste,ls home-unit buildings that tower over it, just Limited. Very early in the piece I pointed a few feet away from the walls entrances out to Senator Bonner just what it would and exits of the building in whi~h drunken mean if an establishment in that locality parties take place, and in which the people was purchased by the Commonwealth Gov­ to whom I referred earlier congregate. With ernment and set up as a hostel for Aboriginals my 20 years' experience in Aboriginal affairs, -or, indeed, a hostel of any kind. it matters nothing to me whether the people who occupy this hostel happen to have black It was only after some weeks of inquiry skin, or whether they happen to be blue, and provocation-in fact, only after the purple, or yellow with pink spots. The fact building was purchased-that we were able Is vh?-t ~hey ar~ irresponsible people, and to get any real information from the Com­ the site IS unsmtable. The purchase of the monwealth Government as to its intentions place was against my advice given directly relative to the use of the premises. At to the organisation and the Minister. It was also against the advice of Senator Banner one stage I was told that the persons who a member of the board. ' would occupy "Elan" would be young ladies -perhaps schoolgirls-or young apprentice Since then, we have had instances in New boys. As is typical of the present Common­ Farm of Aboriginal men throwing rocks on wealth Government, it either did not know the roofs of houses of ladies living in retire­ what it was doing or was deliberately dis­ ment in that area. We have instances of honest, and what happened at that particular drunks lying unconscious in the shopping establishment was the exact opposite of what centre at night. Even in the mid~afternoon I was told would happen. In fact when I have had to step over them myself. Drunken parties have been held on the river it was opened as a hostel, it beca:Ue the bank, about 50 yards away. On one occasion home for ,layabouts, itinerants, vagabonds, six men and two teenage girls were putting vagrants, no-hopers, criminals, alcoholics and on exhibitions of sexual intercourse in full persons of that type-mostly men-who view of those in the home units in that occupied the Born Free Club in South area. I had to call the police. We have Brisbane. had instances of Aboriginal men laying in wait in the bushes in the dark, and then It is with great interest that I notice stepping out in front of old people as the smile on the face of the Opposition's they came along and standing over them spokesman on Aboriginal affairs. He seems for money. They have bludged cigarettes, to take great delight in the disruption that with a wine bottle in one hand and the has been caused to this residential area by other hand held [n ,a menacing fashion. Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill 1701

The Bill adopts a responsible attitude to a curfew on this hostel. In these two church Aboriginal affairs as administered by the establishments people are required to book State department. In contrast, we have the in by a reasonable time; they are required Commonwealth Government hostel in New to advise that they desire accommodation Farm. It may be news to members that for that night; they are required to be a white man who is living with a coloured reasonably sober and to not bring liquor into woman in a defacto relationship is the establishments; and they are required to entitled to live at that hostel, irrespective behave themselves within their precincts. of how long the relationship has existed. There is no such supervision of this What nonsense! I am told that for $15 luxurious motel-type accommodation in the a week the people who live in this palatial middle of the New Farm area, and the Com­ motel-type accommodation receive full board, monwealth Government stands condemned including laundry. The rest of their social for its inaction in this regard. service payments, which amount to $51.50 a week for a man and his wife, is retained Mr. Davis interjected. as pocket money. This means that the men Mr. LANE: The honourable member for can lay about all day. They can jump on Brisbane mentioned Senator Banner. Senator the West End bus that operates from New Banner was opposed to the establishment of Farm and travel aoross the river to South the "Elan" Motor Inn as an Aboriginal Brisbane, where the Born Free Club was. hostel. He told me so, and, he also said They can go straight into the piUb over there, that he had publicly opposed it on the board get full of grog, get a few bottles of wine, of Aboriginal Hostels Limited. No political and then travel back in the bus across the con trick by the honourable member for bridge to New Farm. At 10.30 p.m., they Brisbane dull as he is or as some of his stagger into the shopping centre-- big brothers are in Canberra can erase that The CHAIRMAN: Order! ~he member' is fact from the public record. drifting away from the Aborigines Act and The number of complaints I have received the Torres Strait Islanders Act. about this Commonwealth hostel would fill a book. Almost every day I receive telephone Mr. LANE: Many of these people should calls from ladies and gentlemen living in be under the supervision >and control of the the New Farm area who cannot go home to very Acts that are being amended today. their unit, flat or house in this formerly Many of them have been. I am reliably peaceful suburb without being accosted or informed that many of those in the hostels in annoyed by alcoholics from this hostel. Since my electorate-hostels that were established my telephone calls to Canberra, there has by the Ccmmonwealth Government, I repeat been a bit of panic in the ranks of the -are people who did not want to stay Labor Party about what has been done in on the settlements, mission stations and this area. It is in a Labor electorate, and reserves where they were looked after. They the Federal member will be held to account are the loafers and no-hopers from those for it. places. An attempt has now suddenly been made The Minister is making a good approach to accommodate women and children in this to the problem in taking note of the recom­ hostel in order to reduce the number of lay­ mendations of the Aboriginal Advisory Coun­ about Born Free Club men who are still cil and the Torres Strait Islanders Advisory there. The result is that young Aboriginal Council on the way in which the Act should children have been placed in the unfortunate be amended. I agree with the Minister and situation of having to play on busy main his departmental officers, who :urge that roads. They are forced to play in the street Aborigines should be assimilated into the because there is no yard. In fact, the entire community by providing fop them cottage­ yard, with the exception of a lawn area in type accommodation in which they can live the front the size of a single-bed blanket, is in a family situation where there is decent covered with concrete. Two cars could not supervision. This is preferable to throwing be parked in the back yard without covering 40 or 50 unfortunate alcoholic males together it entirely, and in the front yard three cars in unsuitable and inadequate accommodation, would cover the whole area. Anyone who where they intimidate their neighbours. The knows anything about hostel accommodati~n State approach is a much better one. would know that people come and go m In conversation with one of the top officials motor-cars. These areas are occupied by of Aboriginal Hostels Ltd. some months ago, motor vehicles and the unfortunate children I endeavoured to convince him that he should have to spill out into the street. They ride provide for adequate supervision of this their tricycles up and down Moray Street. establishment. I suggested that he could I wonder whether it will take a serious well take a leaf from the book of the traffic accident to one of these children to Salvation Army Home at South Brisbane make the Commonwealth Government take or the St. Vincent de Paul home in Margaret notice of the situation. Probably it will, Street, both establishments with long because the Commonwealth Government, in experience of handling vagrants, vagabonds the things it does of this nature, is very and alcoholics who are down on their luck. lathe to admit a mistake-and it has made have no money, and need accommodation of a whopper of a mistake in purchasing the this kind. This would require the placing of "Elan" motel. 1702 Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OCTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill

One would not expect the Commonwealth He mentioned transit huts erected in Cion­ Government to reassess the situation, or to curry and claimed that they were superior try to meet the desires of people who live to the accommodation now provided for in the area. The peace of mind of the Aborigines in Brisbane. He also referred elderly residents of New Farm should be to damage done to those huts. Perhaps he just as dear to the Federal Govern­ was, in effect, telling us that he was not ment as is the welfare of Aboriginal doing his job in Cloncurry and was men and the Aboriginal women and not involving himself in Aboriginal problems children who live with white de facto as much as he should have been. I note, husbands in the "Elan" Motor Inn. The however, that he did not suggest any alter­ Commonwealth Government's proposal is, to natives. Although he was severely critical, say the least, ill-considered. The Opposition he did not put forward any suggestion as spokesman's play on words does nothing to to what could be done to overcome the grapple with the real problems confronting numerous problems confronting Aborigines. Aborigines who reside in urban areas. I believe that this legislation is being I have witnessed many attempts to accom­ introduced following a meeting that was held modate Aborigines who leave their settle­ in Brisbane as recently as last week. In ments. While I was stationed in Cloncurry some ways the Minister and the Government in the 1950's I was Protector of Aborigines, are seeking to gain some ground from the and during my term in that office three large Australian Government. In effect the transit huts were erected on the town com­ Minister is saying that some of the state­ mon to accommodate Aboriginal men and ments by the Australian Government are women who came from the Doomadgee and correct. The Government and the Minister Mornington Island missions to Cloncurry for now want to remove at least one area of the purposes of receiving attention at the criticism by seeking to move ahead of moves base hospital, participating in rodeos or already planned by the Australian Govern­ moving on to Townsville. Before the erec­ ment. They want to remove the heat by tion of those huts, I was simply required moving ahead-and that is good politics. to take these Aborigines out to a sheltered, grassed area on the river bank, where they Mr. Porter: What spokesman for the were quite content to sleep with their swags Government said that? You are referring to under the trees. Subsequently, upon the Press comment, aren't you? completion of the transit huts, the depart­ ment now named the Department of Abori­ Mr. B. WOOD: I do not expect the ginal and Island Affairs instructed me to Minister for Conservation, Marine and accommodate Aborigines in them. Aboriginal Affairs to state it bluntly, but I The huts \Vere enormous partitioned build­ have some intelligence and I can see what ings containing washing and toilet facilities. is happening. I also have some sources of They also had louvre windows along the information. full length of the sides. I drove hundreds The Minister is conceding some of the of Aborigines out to these huts and told Australian Government's arguments. It has them to remain there. By Cloncurry been stated, I understand, that the Govern­ standards in the 1950's, this was accom­ ment intends to move on one or two of the modation of luxury type. But what did we amendments but not on all of them, find? Within three weeks all the glass especially that relating to entry to reserves. louvres had been smashed; the Aborigines That is why this legislation is being rushed slept not in the huts but amongst the bull through. dust outside; and they knocked down the partitions and used the wood for camp fires. Mr. Porter: Tell us what the Aborigines Just as the State Government wasted money want that we are not doing. on those buildings at that time, so, too, is the Commonwealth Government squandering Mr. B. WOOD: The honourable member public money on the purchase of the "Elan" would not know; he has never interested Motor Inn in Moray Street, New Farm, for himself in their problems. He has never the housing of Aborigines. Again I say it taken any steps to show the slightest interest. stands condemned for its actions. Any honest He happens to be in the Chamber at this Opposition member would acknowledge this stage only by coincidence. I do not think he and express some concern for the elderly is at all aware of anyl!hing relating to these residents who live in home units nearby. problems. (Time expired.) Despite what the Minister said, the Aboriginal people of Queensland are not Mr. B. WOOD (Barron River) (4.54 p.m.): happy with the Act. There is considerable The honourable member who has just dissatisfaction throughout Queensland about resumed his seat is critical of the Australian both Acts, especially among people on Government for having provided housing reserves, who are very much subject to the facilities for Aborigines in Brisbane. I do provisions of the Acts. Considerable dis­ not know why he criticises the provision satisfaction also exists in other places where of these facilities in the light of the fact people are not under the control of the Act that for years the Queensland Government but, being of Aboriginal or Islander descent has failed to provide them. are naturally very interested and concerned. Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill 1703

I state regretfully that I do not have great capable person. In fact, I have more con­ confidence in the State's advisory council as fidence in him than does the National Party, a council, although I have respect for many which is nominating a white candidate, too. of the members individually. As a council They do not have such confidence in Eric it serves the Government's purpose rather Deeral that they would allow him to run than that of rthe Aborigines or Islanders. as their sole candidate. I understand that a That is my basis of criticism. In general, the policeman from Dimbulah is the likely advisory council-the title is sufficient to nominee as the second National Party can­ indicate some of the reasons for its existence didate. I repeat that I have very much more -makes decisions that the Government confidence in Mr. Deeral than his National wants it to make. On many occasions the Party supporters. I hope that in the future chairman of the council has made statements he will be a spokesman for his people. from his place of residence, but most Unfortunately he will not be given the oppor­ honourable members understand that before tunity to do so in this Chamber, but I hope being issued by him they are prepared in the that he will continue to be a spokesman for Executive Building. his people and that the Government will lift the finger and allow him and his fellow Last Friday, in Cairns, I spoke to a council advisory council members more freedom of member who attended the recent advisory speech. council meeting. I hope I am not saying enough to identify the man; quite a number I turn now to the issue of land rights. of the members passed through Cairns. He I was particularly disappointed when a few was very dissatisfied with the conference. weeks ago neither the Queensland Minister That was an unsolicited comment from him. nor the Premier would discuss the Wood­ I spoke to him for a few minutes and had ward report with Senator Cavanagh. It was a cup of tea with him. At that stage I did not the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs not realise that the meeting had been held in in Canberra who was snubbed but the Brisbane. He raised the subjeci with me Aboriginal and Islander people in Queens­ and expressed his complete dissatisfaction. land. He sa,id the people representing the Abori­ Mr. Porter: Why? gines were unable to state their views as they would wish; that they were not com­ Mr. B. WOOD: I suppose it is beyond the fortable in standing up to state their views. honourable member, but I will continue. If I repeat that his comments were unsolicited. the member from the backbench, the far backbench, knew anything about the In this controversial area of Aboriginal matter, he would realise that the Woodward and Island Affairs it is significant that we report contains the expressions of opinion of never hear criticism from the advisory Aboriginal and Islander people throughout council. Through the Press and other media Australia. It did not give Senator Cavanagh's we hear only approval of the Government by views, or the views of the Labor Govern­ the council. ment in Canberra. It set out the solicited Mr. P. Wood: That is managed. views of Aborigines and Islanders. Mr. P. Wood: Mr. Porter would not know Mr. B. WOOD: I have no doubt about anything about it. that. Mr. B. WOOD: He would not even care This is unusual because this is a contro­ about it. versial area. One would expect there to be criticisms. From reading the agenda of some That is what the report contained. There­ of the meetings-! must confess not in the fore the Queensland Minister in effect said, last year or two-! have seen the criticisms "I do not want to talk about what the and wishes of the people expressed; but of Aborigines want to do, want to know about course it is only the favourable comment or want to talk about. I won't have a bar that ever surfaces. That is unfortunate. of it." He was not upsetting Senator Those people, individually, want to represent Cavanagh, although the senator was not the Aborigines or the Islanders, but they feel very happy about it, but his snub, his insult, they are not able to do so. was directed to the Aborigines and Islanders. That is a very serious state of affairs. The I make the interesting comment-and I State Minister should be prepared to talk know the member for Cook is aware of it­ to the Aborigines and listen to what they that later in the week (perhaps on Friday) want on the subject of land rights. there is to be an announcement, I under­ stand, that a member of the advisory council Mr. Row interjected. will be one of the National Party candidates for Cook. I tip the name Eric Deeral, so Mr. B. WOOD: If the honourable mem­ honourable members will not be surprised ber for Hinchinbrook went to Palm Island when the announcement is made. At least, I only occasionally, he might know something understand it is to be someone from Hope­ about these things. vale. I will not carry a brief here for the repre­ Let me say that Eric Deeral would make sentatives of the N.A.C.C. I agree with some an excellent politician. He is a fine man, a of the things they do and at times I do not fine representative of his people and a very agree with them. However, one thing that 1704 Aborigines Act and Torres [29 0CTOBER;_1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill pleases me about the consultative committee Mr. P. Wood: And the Aborigines and is that its members on occasions are prepared Islanders are suffering. to be very critical of the Australian Govern­ ment, the Government which set up the Mr. B. WOOD: That is precisely the point. committee and allowed it to function. They The people are suffering as a result. Let us are representatives of their people, not of forget the argument and look at what the the Australian Government. This is a lesson people want. It does not matter what we from which Queensland can learn. If the want or what the Government wants. What members of the advisory council are to be is important is what the people want. If we true representatives of their people, they do this, progress will be much more rapid. should be allowed to be critical of the Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (5.4 Queensland Government. p.m.): We have just witnessed another feat As I understand it, a number of amend­ of political somersaulting by the honourable ments, including access to reserves, were member for Barron River. In the first part considered. I acknowledge the right of of his speech, he put fiorward the very sound Aborigines and Islanders to control, in the proposition that Aborigines should be main, what happens on their reserves. They allowed to control their own reserves and certainly do not do this now. I wish they affairs and to do what they think is best for did. In varying degrees, the councils on the themselves in their particular loca1ities. By reserves are used by the administration as a and large there is not very much wrong with matter of convenience. I hope that in time that. they exercise greater control. I certainly know Then he went on and did one of the that the Aborigines and Islanders want this somersaults for which he is notorious. He to happen. said, "But I don't think anyone who was In any case, if the Aborigines and Islanders born on a reserve or has had any connection want to exercise some control over who can with a reserve and who wants to go back to enter reserves and which non-Aboriginal or it should have to ask permission to go back non-Islander people can go there, they should in order to do so." have the right to do so. I firmly believe that There are reserves in this State-Palm any coloured person who has family members Island is one, and there are many others­ or relations on a reserve, who was born on a which are run and controlled by elected reserve, or who has connections with it Aborigines, the people in whom the honour­ should not have to ask if he can go back to able member for Barron River says should that reserve. This is the requirement of the be reposed all the power to control particular Act. It is sometimes rigidly applied and reserves. Yet any Aborigine who has been sometimes loosely applied. In faot it is a off a reserve for many years or for some very difficult law to put into effect com­ short time, as the case may be, does not have pletely. I think Aborigines who have con­ to apply to the Government or to the nections with reserves should have free entry Minister to go back onto that reserve; he to them. When I go back to Cairns and merely applies to the Aboriginal Council that beyond, I do not have to ask if I can go controls the reserve-the people in whom the there. Why should the Aborigines or honourable member for Barron River says Islanders be treated differently? should be reposed all the power over that I am sorry that there is conflict in State reserve. and Federal relations concerning Aboriginal The honourable member for Barron River and Islander matters, as there is in so many said that Aboriginal councils should not have fields. The only criterion is the interests of power to kceep a sponger, a loafer or a the Aboriginal and Islander people. If it is trouble-maker off reserves. As far as I am to their benefit, we should support it. This aware, they are the only ones who are kept was one of the reasons why I was very off reserves in Queensland. Men such as unhappy about the land rights dispute. Senator Keeffe and Charles Perkins and Some time ago I asked the Minister a women such as Bobbie Sykes are the only question in this House. It pointed to the ones who are kept off the reserves, and they conflict that arose when an officer of the are kept off the reserves not by the Govern­ Australian Government was refused per­ ment or any bureaucratic authority but by mission to go to Bamaga. As I understand the elected representatives of the Aborigines the situation-and I know I am right-he themselves. What is wrong with that? received a message at Weipa to ring Brisbane, How often have I seen at my home or not Bamaga, to ask if he could go to been pulled up in the street by married men Bamaga. He was told by the otfice in Bris­ who have left Palm Island and come to the bane that he was not to go to Bamaga. So mainland, as they call it, and got a job which much for some of the statements that it is they have kept only until they received their the people on the reserves who make the first pay. They have then got drunk and decisions. The people at Bamaga wanted this been lying about the town, becoming a person to go there, but he was considered by nuisance to themselves and everyone else. the State Government to be undesirable. He They have been offered job after job and was told by the Government that he should either refused to take it or worked for a little not go to Bamaga. This was only because of while and then tossed it in and gone on the argument between the State and Aus­ social services. Finally when they have tralian Governments over these matters. become a nuisance to everyone who knows Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OCTOBER 19741 Strait Islanders, &c., Bill 1705 them, they say "Oh, well, I'll go back onto Mr. AIKENS: Yes. They said anything. the island and have a bloody holiday with They lied. They got down into the gutter; all my relatives." In other words, they go they dipped as far as they possibly could back onto Palm Island and loaf and sponge into the cesspit. They were saying all sorts on their unfortunate wives and children, of things about decent people, including a their relatives and friends. You know the lot of decent Aborigines. They took up cry of Aborigines of this type, Mr. Hewitt. petitions. Even Senator Banner got into the If one of them wants to sponge on anyone, act. Finally, when the ballot was held, it he just points a finger at him and says, was a complete vindication of the Minister "You my cousin, you know." These are in charge of native affairs, and a complete the type of people who, according to the vindication of the decent section on Palm pseudo-humanitarian honourable member for Island. Barron River, should be allowed to walk on and off Aboriginal reserves as often as they Where has Senator Keeffe gone? The like, causing all the trouble they possibly moment he found that once again he had can and sponging on their relatives and fouled his nest on Palm Island he got in friends. touch with some no-hoper Aborigines, and a man named Timms who got the sack Now, it is true that, broadly speaking, from Stuart gaol, and he launched out­ Aborigines can be divided into two categories rageous, shocking, scurrilous charges against -the good and bad; the worthy and decent prison officers. He goes from one worthless. Unfortunately, at times the worth­ place to another. Nothing is too foul for less are stimulated, incited or, should I say, him to say. He will say anything that his inspired by people outside the reserves to foul mind can conceive and his filthy tongue cause all the trouble they possibly can and can utter as long as he is creating trouble. do everything they possibly can to draw the That is right up Senator Keeffe 's alley. crabs, if I may use the vulgar vernacular, The next we heard from him was at the on the whole of the Aboriginal community. Labor-in-Po!itics Convention in Cairns, where he took full credit for putting through those I should say that the most dangerous shocking resolutions about abortion, homo­ trouble-maker for Aborigines in Queensland sexuality and prostitution. is Senator J ames Keeffe, and nobody can say that is wrong. Ever since he became a I believe that the Bill could be a good senator, he has done nothing but cause measure. I know that many Aborigines cannot trouble in Aboriginal communities. Even if handle liquor. Indeed, I know some white a community is running quietly, placidly people who cannot handle liquor. I know and benignly, Senator Keeffe will go onto a couple in this Chamber who cannot handle it with a hare-brained or scatter-brained liquor. But it is true that there is a greater story, or some outrageous lie, and stir up percentage of Aborigines than white men one section of the Aborigines against another. who cannot handle liquor. If possible, he will take with him Charlie As a result of representations made to Perkins or Bobbi Sykes, or a few other the Government by Aborigines on Palm no-hopers of a character and calibre similar Is'land and other settlements, they were given to his own, and they will assist him to stir the right to have a canteen and to drink up trouble. liquor at the canteen. Permission to take the liquor into their homes was not granted, You will remember, Mr. Hewitt, that but I understand it is being granted under recently Senator Keeffe went to Palm Island this Bill. Because the Aborigines were not with Perkins and Bobbie Sykes and stirred granted permission to take liquor into their up what I would call the worthless section of the Aborigines on the island. Finally, homes on Palm Island we saw there the riots occurred there that almost ended in greatest and most putrid black market in bloodshed and death, and those who had liquor anywhere in the State. For all I know, been stirred up said, "We have to take over there might have been a black market in Palm Island. This is going to be ours. liquor on the other Aboriginal reserves. Some No-one will interfere." The Minister for very prominent Left-wingers and some very Conservation, Marine and Aboriginal Affairs prominent supporters of the A.L.P. on Palm then received a petition from the decent Island were soon running their fibreglass section of Palm Islanders, as a result of which boats, which they bought from the proceeds he said, "I will dissolve the council and hold of their illicit black-marketing and sly-grog­ a fresh election." What howLs of anguish ging, to bring sly grog from Townsville, came from members of the A.L.P.-those Ingham and various other places. They made lovers of democracy! They opposed the a small fortune out of it. If the Bill will democratic action of the Minister in charge of stop putrid black marketing and s'ly-grogging native affairs. They opposed the action of by the reprehensible type of Aborigine at the man who said, "If you want to see who places like Palm Island, at least it will have really is in charge of Palm Island, I will achieved some good purpose. give you an opportunity to see it and to It makes me sick to hear theorists like show it." the honourable member for Barron River talking about .the Aborigines. I would not Mr. N. T. E. Hewitt: They paid for the mind betting that he never saw an Aborigine court action to try to stop it. in his native state until he was elected to 1706 Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill

Parliament a few years ago. He was not born untruths, the sweet semblance of fact. It is and reared among ,them as I was. He does very important that one should briefly com­ not know their problems as I know them. ment on this on the eve of what may well be-no, not may be, will be-the most In all seriousness, Mr. Hewitt, as a man important election that this State will ever of keen perception and one who can see have faced. I believe that this State has an beneath the surface, you would agree that excellent record in terms of its care for the great problem of Aborigines is that Aboriginal people, and has had it for man} so far many of them have not been taught years. Equally, I believe that the A.L.P. personal and domestic hygiene. I have dis­ Federal Government has a sickening record cussed this with everyone, and I mentioned in this field, a record of saying so much, of it during a television programme to Mr. promising the impossible, of encouraging all Bryant when he was the Federal Minister the poorer and baser attributes of these in charge of Aborigines. That is what causes handicapped people-and they are hand!· a lot of trouble when they are put into capped in the sense of ·trying to be part of a house alongside a white family. Normally a white community. The A.L.P. record is a white family does not object to them. also sickening, since the Whitlam Govern· I do not know of any white family that ment has come to power, in its elevation would object on colour alone, but I do know of all the extremists and its discouragement of some Labor politicians who say that they and disparagement of all the sane and do not object to black people but who would moderate elements among the Aboriginal squeal like brumby stallions if they knew that people. This record alone would condemn a black family was going to be put alongside the Whitlam Government out of hand. them. Unfortunately many of the Aborigines have not been trained in personal and It was suggested that all we were doing domestic hygiene. here was making amendments which disclose that we were wrong and the Federal Govern­ I put it to Bryant, and I have put it ment was right, and that what we are doing in rthis Chamber on many occasions, that has been forced upon us by the Federal while the black people might respect us Government. When I asked the honourable and Eke us-I know many of them respect member for Barron River to quote the me and like me-they do not trust us. authority for this statement or to give me I said, "The first job that should be done some facts he not only would not do so .. for Aborigines is that Aboriginal men but he could not. and women-particularly women--of high standard of intelligence and education should Mr. B. Wood: I talk to these people. be trained, probably as nursing sisters or along rthat line, and then sent out into Mr. PORTER: Well, there are people and the Aboriginal communities to teach people. We can all talk to people. The A.L.P. Aboriginal women in particular how to Federal Government has been desperately maintain and enforce domestic and personal trying to suggest that we in Queensland do hygiene among themselves." not know anything about the Aboriginal problem. I remind the Committee that it One of the greatest tragedies of the was this side of politics that put an Aborigine Aboriginal people is the terrifically high into the Federal House. Not only did we death-rate for young Aborigines. It is a make him a senator but we put him at the terrible thing to see young Aboriginal head of our Senate ticket at the last elec­ children dying not because of any fault of tion. We did, not the Labor Government. It the Government but because their mothers does a lot of talking but it does not do have not been trained or taught to look after anything. It is our way not just to talk young children as white mothers have been. about things but to do them. We do not If this is done, I think a big step will have believe that every problem confronting the been taken towards what we call the assimila­ Aborigines can be cured by encouraging the tion of the races. But until we do something radicals to lead them and by handing them to clean up the dangerous rat-bags and massive amounts of public money. trouble-makers, who would stoop to anything If the Federal Government's record in to create trouble, riots and bloodshed­ people like Senator Keeffe, Perkins and Aboriginal matters is as good as is claimed and if it is beloved by the Aboriginal people Bobbi Sykes-until the A.L.P. faces up to where it is responsible for their welfare, its responsibility and shakes off its back all the free-loaders and others who are climbing will the honourable member for Barron River tell my why the Labor Party did not do onto the gravy train of the A.L.P., until better than it did in the recent Northern they believe what we all believe, namely, that there should be equality for all and Territory council poll? The Labor Party preference for none, we will never solve the did not win one seat there, where many Aboriginal problem. Aborigines take part in the polls. The fact is, of course, that the Federal Government Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (5.22 p.m.): I has a dreadful record in its areas of immedi­ think we have had from the honourable ate and direct responsibility. member for Barron River a classic example The honourable member for Barron River of the kind of banality that Labor uses in tried to pretend that he received special exploiting racial issues when trying to give, information. In fact, a few moments ago if not downright lies, at least complete he said, "I talk to people." He claims Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill 1707

that the Aborigines are totally dissatisfied, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W. and he puts as the basis for his claim the D. Hewitt): Order! fact that he has been talking to someone. Mr. R. E. Moore: Have you any in your An Honourable Member interjected. electorate? Mr. PORTER: He is probably very dis­ Mr. DAVIS: There is a fairly large con­ .:riminating in his selection of persons he tingent of Aborigines both on the south talks to. Of course he would not tell us side and in Spring Hill, in my electorate, the source of his information. He tried and one thing in my favour is that, unlike to suggest that our Aboriginal council is the honourable member for Merthyr, I do not representative of the people it represents, not collect signatures for petitions and use and he claimed that the Act is not being the "black" problem as a means of trying amended in terms of the council's wishes. to gain political advantage. In his sanc­ He did not, however, tell us in what way timonious manner, the honourable member the council's requirements are not being met for Merthyr criticised the Federal Govern­ by these amendments. Furthermore he pre­ ment for having provided housing for Abori­ tended that the body set up by the Federal gines at New Farm, in his electorate. He Government-the N.A.C.C.-is the only body contended that the Commonwealth Govern­ that really represents the Aboriginal people ment is doing this to gain political advan­ of Australia. The fact is that the N.A.C.C. tage. I ask him: where did the Common­ was elected by fewer than one-third of the wealth Government establish the first Abori­ Aboriginal people of Australia. It is nowhere ginal hostel in Brisbane? The answer is, of near as representative as is the body set course, in the Labor-held Federal electorate up in Queensland, and it certainly cannot of Brisbane. Its establishment was announced speak for the Aborigines. three days prior to the election by "Uncle Tom" Bonner, who was one of All that the Federal Government has done, the leading lights in the establishment of and all that Senator Cavangah has done, of this hostel in the Brisbane electorate. is make the radicals and the extremists­ Immediately Senator Banner made that the people who exploit the Aborigines for announcement, the honourable member political purposes-the spokesmen on whom for Merthyr instituted his usual racist the Federal Government relies in seeking petitions. The night before the elec­ :m expression of opinion on which it can tion, the Liberal Party in the New Farm take action. The Federal Government is and Merthyr areas distributed pamphlets divided and confused. Worse, however, is which read, "If you want a nigger for a the fact that it has debauched the Aboriginal neighbour you vote Labor." That was typical people in a manner the like of which has of the racist petitions instigated by the not been witnessed before in this country. honourable member for Merthyr and people of his ilk. I recall that when it was sug­ The Premier was right in refusing to talk gested that Aboriginal hostels should be to Senator Cavanagh. No good purpose would established in the Clayfield electorate, the be served by talking with the Federal Gov­ honourable member for Clayfield raised a ernment. All it does is try to use every similar hue and cry. The honourable member opportunity for communication as a means for Redcliffe-our newly elected Speaker­ of getting its own way, which always reacts reacted in exactly the same way to a similar to the detriment of the Aboriginal people situation. He said that he did not want whom we are trying to protect. Aboriginal hostels in his area. The Act is being amended as the Abori­ On the south side of Brisbane, Aboriginals ginal people want it amended. Let anyone themselves constitute a major problem, whilst who thinks he can prove the contrary rise in the Spring Hill area their housing creates in this Chamber and try to do so. The a similar problem. The Labor Government amending measure is totally the product of in Canberra has tried to do something about the Aborigines, and will remain so. The housing Aborigines. Labor's attitude is Queensland Government has an excellent different from that of the State Government. record in Aboriginal welfare, and I am Unlike the Premier who, when he employed certain that on 7 December its record will Aborigines a few years ago, paid them 4s. be reflected in the electorates in which the a week, Labor believes in paying award Aborigines' votes play a significant part. wages. Honourable gentlemen opposite will be sorry The Federal Labor Government is not that the Government's record will be noted like the State Government which pays its as well as it will be on that occasion. blacktrackers only about $24 a week, and its Aboriginal employees in the Department Mr. DAVIS (Brisbane) (5.28 p.m.): I do of Aboriginal and Island Affairs only about not often join in debates on Aboriginal three-quarters of the award wage. Govern­ matters. ment members should not talk about racism Mr. Lee: It's a pity you did not go up when the Australian Labor Party is trying and join them. to help Aborigines. Whenever establishment of a hostel is Mr. DAVIS: Looking at you, I thought announced, Liberal and Country Party you were one. members say that they do not want it in 1708 Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill their electorates. They do not want these Mr. DAVIS: The honourable member for people to be anywhere near them. The Merthyr has shown clearly that he and his honourable member for Merthyr has shown group in Merthyr are making political use clearly that he is a racist. of this issue. Today the honourable member for Belmont asked the Minister whether it Mr. LANE: I rise to a point of order. The was a fact that police were photographing remarks made by the honourable member "Elan" hostel. It is a fact; people are photo­ for Brisbane are offensive to me. I ask that graphing the hostel. If it is not the Special he withdraw them and apologise. Branch, or other police, it is either the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. associates of the member for Merthyr or the W. D. Hewitt): Order! The honourable mem­ Liberal Party in Merthyr, who will attempt ber for Merthyr has asked that the state­ to use the photographs purely and simply ment be withdrawn. for despicable political purposes. Mr. DAVIS: I withdraw that part. Dr. SCOIT-YOUNG (Townsville) (5.36 The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! p.m.): I had no intention of involving myself The honourable member will withdraw the in this debate. However, I have heard the statement. word "racism" bandied around and I wonder what is meant by it. The word is an extra­ Mr. DAVIS: I withdraw and apologise, ordinary one. It is based not on logic, but Mr. Hewitt-whatever you want me to do. on a peculiar form of emotionalism that The honourable member for Merthyr arises out of a physical difference between stated that he is not in favour of the estab­ one race and another. The word is used lishment of "Elan" as a hostel, not because rather liberally by Opposition members. of the Aboriginal situation but because of the Over the years I have had a lot to do with way in which the building is constructed. I Aborigines. I have been closer to them than ask him through you, Mr. Hewitt, if he is many members of the Opposition have. I opposed to "Apia", which is also in his elec­ have looked after them when they were sick, torate, being converted to a hostel. From delivered their babies and become friendly the start, the issue with the honourable mem­ with them. I have even fought with them. ber for Merthyr, like so many Liberal and The Queensland kborigine has been well Country Party politicians-- looked after by the Department of Aboriginal Mr. LANE: I rise to a point of order. and Island Affairs. Can I answer the honourable member? Honourable members opposite may think The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! that strange. When I was Medical Superin­ There is no point of order. tendent of the Townsville General Hospital it was rumoured that the Act would be Mr. DAVIS: He, like other Liberal and repealed and that people from Palm Island Country Party poHticians, is using this issue would be allowed free movement to the main­ purely to gain political advantage. From the land. A deputation of women asked me to outset, the Australian Labor Party Govern­ use my influence with the Government to ment has never tried to make this a political prevent that happen~ng. Their reason was issue. This is an extremely controversial issue, that, before they went to Palm Island, they but the Labor Party is trying very hard were often beaten up by their husbands, had in this area. no food for their children and were forced Mr. Lane interjected. on the streets to obtain money from prostitu­ tion, as their menfolk would not work. Those The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! women did not want to go through that Mr. DAVIS: By heavens, we have some again. They said that they were happy with uncouth people in this Assembly! the life on Palm Island; that it was peaceful . The honourable member for Toowong, and quiet. Their husbands were disciplined hke so many of his colleagues on other and, if they played up, the superintendent occasions, said that the Liberal Party would put them in the calaboose and make endorsed the first Aboriginal politician in them work. The women had complete free­ Australia. We all know that Senator Bonner dom and peace. was a political accident. The Federal colleagues of the members of the Opposition have bandied the word The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! "racism" around and have disturbed the The endorsement of Senator Bonner has peace. What have they given them? nothing whatsoever to do with this State. Nothing! They have given them no educa­ Mr. DAVIS: I am only answering the tion and no understanding. They heap honourable member for Toowong who 11iches upon them. What are their fetters referred to him earlier. I thought I should now? They are fettered by gold. It is not put the record straight. the Department of Aboriginal and Island Affairs. It is gold-dollars. Because the The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! Aborigine has not been educated to take his The honourable member for Toowong made position in the community, that is the a passing reference to Senator Bonner. I greatest fetter one can put around his neck. have allowed the honourable member for The Labor Party in two years has done more Brisbane to do likewise. damage to the Aborigine than has ever been Aborigines Act and Torres [29 OcTOBER 1974] Strait Islanders, &c., Bill 1709 done before under any administration or any Territory. Surely the other States in Aus­ Act People cannot be given money tralia have some interest in this matter. As indiscriminately. another honourable member pointed out Mr. B. Wood: Do you believe that the earlier, the people of the Northern Territory Aborigine is in every respect equal to the gave a fairly clear ind!ication a week or so white person? ago of what they think of A.L.P. policy. Maybe land rights had something to do Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: If an Aborigine is with the result. educated, he is our equal. The honourable Mention has been made of Canberra and member is a greater racist than I thought. He what happens there. As the longest-serving is most probably quoting from an interesting Minister dealing with Aboriginal Affairs in work done recently in which the theory was Australia at present and having served in enunciated that the I.Q. of a coloured person this portfolio for probably three times the was 15 per cent lower than th:JJt of the term of any other Minister, I have had the normal white man. That is utter balderdash. opportunity of seeing some of the failings. As It is a matter of education and attaJinment, late as our Hobart conference I said to Senator which comes not from one generation but from many generations. lt is forgotten that Cavanagh, "Let us get together an~ . try the European heritage extends back for a to rethink the whole matter of Abongmal thousand years. and Islander Affairs." I did not confine it to Senator Cavanagh. I said that each Mr. B. Wood: You made the statement and every Minister concerned with Aboriginal that the mongoloid race \\as an inferior race. Affairs should get together with welfare officers and other officers. I have heard Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: I never mentioned nothing from Senator Cavanagh in this regard. the mongoloid race at all. I am talking about Unless the right people get together, we will Aborigines and the European ·races. If the not find the answer to this problem. honourable member wants to talk about mongoloid races-- An Opposition Member interjected. The CHAIRMAN: Order! It is not m order to talk about the mongoloid race. Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: I put this to him a long while befme the recent talk about Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: I am talking about the Woodward report and Palm Island, which Australian Aborigines. he wanted to buy into although it had nothing to do with him. I want to give all Mr. B. Wood interjected. Ministers the chance to get together with Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: The winner of the welfare officers and other people interested Caulfield Cup would be more difficult to in Aborigines, but Senator Cavanagh has predict than the outcome for the Aboriginal never taken me up in this regard. race now that the Federal Labor Party has interfered in their money matters. An Opposition Member interjected. The BQII is anothe[1 good move by the Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: It is a funny thing, State Government to gradually help these but I made the statement and he has not people. It is not a precipitous mov_e. It come back to me to accept my suggestion. is carefully planned. I commend 1t and We have disagreed on a couple of things­ congratulate the Minister on it. the Woodward report which has been handled on a Prime Minister-Premier level and the Hon. N. T. E. HEWITT (Auburn-Min­ Palm Island issue. They are the two matters ister for Conservation, Marine and Aboriginal I have refused to meet Senator Cavanagh on. Affairs) (5.41 p.m.), in reply: We have I have not refused to meet him and talk had once again a wide and varied debate on budgetary matters or everyday matters on Aboriginal and Islander Affai[1S. The concerning Aborigines. Anybody can look honourable member for Cook tried to relate at the correspondence in my files if he doubts his speech to the two proposals before the what I am saying. We put this on the Committee. The first relates to the manage­ line. Evep since I became Minister, Press ment of property. That provision will no and television representatives have been wel­ lonoer have any application. When he sees come to go onto our reserves. I invite them the, Bill he will find that it is clearly set again. out. The councils on the reserves have had the I repeat that if the Aboriginal Advisory liquor position explained to them and it is Council recommends to me that it wants the completely up to them to decide_ whether Act repealed, the Government will repeal to give a person one bottle or s1x bottles it and not simply amend it. As I have of beer. We are trying to do the right said so often, this is a tough portfolio. thing by them and we hope that they will be Mr. Bromley: Then why don't you resign? a little bit more alert in the future. The honourable member for Barron River Mr. N. T. E. HEWITT: I would like to spoke on many subjects. He referred to the see the honourable membe:r have a go at Woodward report, which has no :reference handling it. He would know as much about to Queensland. It deals with the Northern an Aborigine as I would about pig farming. 1710 Commonwealth and State [29 OcTOBER 1974] Housing Agreement Bill

Over the years it has been acknowledged the Commonwealth and the several States that it is a tough portfoLio, regardless of of the Commonwealth in relation to Ministers. The late Ned Hanlon made a housing." speech on the subject in uhis Parliament in This is a very short Bill to authorise this 1935. Honourable members should read State to enter into a supplemental agree­ what he had to say about the portfolio. And, ment with the Commonwealth to amend three without ,a doubt, he was a great statesman. clauses of the 1973 Housing Agreement to As this may be the last chance I have provide more flexibility. of speaking in this Chamber before Parlia­ Operating experience with the 1973 Hous­ ment is dissolved, I wish to place on record ing Agreement has shown that these amend­ my thanks to some of the members on both ments are desirable. They were discussed sides who have been helpful to me in my by Housing Ministers of all States and the portfolio by showing common sense and Commonwealth at a conference in June and good, sound judgment. I refer particularly were further considered by an officers' work­ to the honourable member for Baroona (Pat ing party. A subsequent meeting of Hous­ Hanlon), who has had Aboriginal problems ing Ministers on 11 October 1974 agreed to in his area; the honourable member for recommend these adjustments to their Belyando (Hughie O'Donnell), who has had respective Governments. a great deal of experience with Aborigines; the honourable member for Mt. Isa (Alex To effect the adjustments, it is necessary Inch), who has had a tremendous amount for the State and the Commonwealth to sign of experience with Aborigines; and the a supplemental agreement and to have par­ Speaker who has just left us, Bill Lonergan, liamentary authority. Two of the adjust­ who also has had a great deal of experience ments are necessary preliminaries to the in this field. Their advice has been invalu­ distribution to terminating housing societies able to me. Any approach they have made of certain additional funds recently agreed has been on a common-sense basis and we upon by the Commonwealth Minister. For have been able to solve the particular prob­ this reason it is necessary for enabling legis­ lem to the advantage of the Aboriginal lation to be passed at the present session people. of this Parliament. The Commonwealth has advised that it is taking similar action. I reiterate that the Government has noth­ ing to be ashamed of, and I commend The proposed amendments to the agree­ the motion to the Committee. ment deal with three matters. As honourable members are aware, the funds provided Motion (Mr. Hewitt) agreed to. annually under the agreement are split into two categories, one being for the housing Resolution reported. authority, which in this State is the Queens­ land Housing Commission, and the other FIRST READING being for terminating housing societies. Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Subject to a minor qualification, which is not Hewitt, read a first time. relevant to the aspect currently under review, the agreement limits to 30 per cent of the total annual finance the amount which can COMMONWEALTH AND STATE be allocated to terminating societies. HOUSING AGREEMENT BILL The first proposed amendment authorises INITIATION the Commonwealth Minister, subject to a request from a State Minister, to authorise Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister the State to exceed the 30 per cent limitation. for Works and Housing), by leave, without I understand that special circumstances arose notice: I move- last year in one State where this flexibility "That the House will, at its present would have been of assistance. Similar sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of circumstances arise as between the categories the Whole to consider introducing a Bill for which some additional finance was to authorise the execution for and on recently released by the Commonwealth. behalf of the State of a supplemental agree­ The second proposed amendment is to ment between the Commonwealth and the place beyond doubt the legal authority of several States of the Commonwealth in the Commonwealth Minister to make relation to housing." additional advances during a year. Motion agreed to. The third proposed amendment makes the means test in respect of terminating societies INITIATION IN COMMITTEE "exclusive" of overtime in lieu of "inclusive", (Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) which is the current position. Although the percentages of annual average earnings as Hon. A. M. HODGES (Gympie-Minister determined by the statistician remain at 95 for Works and Housing) (5.49 p.m.): I per cent (societies) and 85 per cent (housing move- authority), they will be consistent in respect "That a Bill be introduced to authorise of overtime. Th1s will increase eligibility for the execution for and on behalf of the society loans and remove a source of State of a supplemental agreement between irritation and administrative difficulty. May Commonwealth and, &c., Bill [29 _0cTOBERl1974] Treaties Commission Bill 1711

I say that I only wish that some of the Mr. Hodges: Not at the cheap rate of other objectionable aspects of the means test interest. could be as easily and effectively resolved. Mr. NEWTON: That is true. That is a I have described the substance of the Bill, very important factor, but it is not my inten­ and I have no doubt that honourable mem­ tion to broaden the debate. On many bers on both sides of the Chamber will occasions I have raised the point that as a welcome the adjustments, each of which will result of what has been done in the new be an improvement to the present situation. Commonwealth-State Housing Agreement we I commend the motion. are getting this money at a cheap rate of interest and are permitted to lend it to Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (5.52 p.m.): The borrowers and shareholders in terminating alterations to the Commonwealth-State building societies in order to encourage Housing Agreement recommended by the home-ownership. Minister have the approval of the Opposition. The matters outlined by the Minister have I am very pleased to hear that these been raised by me very strongly on behalf of amendments have been agreed to, particu­ my committee and the Opposition with the larly the one enabling us to get from the Federal Minister for Housing following the Commonwealth Government in excess of the passing of the new Commonwealth-State 30 per cent allowable through the Home Housing Agreement in this Assembly. At Builders' Account for terminating building that time it was pointed out by me that we societies. As I have indicated, the Opposi­ would be taking up the matters raised by the tion fully supports the alterations that have State Minister and Government members been agreed to by the State Minister and with the Federal Minister for Housing and the Commonwealth Minister for Housing. requesting a number of alterations to the Motion (Mr. Hodges) agreed to. agreement. I mentioned that we would be referring to the means test for eligibility for Resolution reported. home-ownership and State rental accommo­ danion, the different rates of pay operating in FIRST READING this State, conditions in remote areas and on Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. large industrial projects, and the position on Hodges, read a first time. the Gold Coast and at Mt. Isa. [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] One of the main reasons why we raised the matter of large industrial projects was that workers had indicated that they would not go to places like Goonyella unless over­ TREATIES COMMISSION BILL time was available to them. Their reason is INITIATION quite understandable. It is not easy for a man to keep two homes. We raised those Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah matters with the Federal Minister. We also -Premier), by leave, without notice: I raised with him some other matters that we move- believe should still be looked at, namely, "That the House will, at its present parities, sick pay, travelling time and fares, sitting, resolve itself into a Committee tool allowance, disability allowance, wet pay of the Whole to consider introducing a and other loadings included in State awards. Bill to provide for the establishment and We indicated quite strongly to the Minister functions of a Treaties Commission and that those payments should not be classed as for purposes incidental thereto." weekly income when applications for home­ ownership or State rental accommodation in Motion agreed to. this State were being considered. The Opposition is pleased to hear that agreement INITIATION IN COMMITTEE has been reached between the various State (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, Ministers and the Federal Minister, that Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) from now on overtime will not be taken into consideration under the means test. As the Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Minister said, this will make quite a number -Premier) (7.16 p.m.): I move- of workers eligible under the agreement. "That a Bill be introduced to provide Again we say that the 30 per cent alloca­ for the establishment and functions of a tion from the Home Builders' Account is a Treaties Commission and for purposes step in the right direction. Nobody would incidental thereto." know better than the Minister that ever since The purpose of this Bill is to provide a this new agreement was implemented we have link in the chain of processes in the field at all times advocated that 30 per cent, or of international treaties and conventions in more if possible, should be set aside for so far as these matters affect the constitutional home-ownership. Anybody associated with authority of the Parliament of Queensland. terminating building societies would surely appreciate the great job these societies have The negotiation of treaties is, in practice, done, and we know only too well, as the a matter for the Commonwealth Government. Minister does, that they cannot get enough This State does not seek to interfere in that finance for home-ownership. area. 1712 Treaties Commission Bill (29 OCTOBER 1974] Treaties Commission Bill

However, to have effect in domestic law make such representations to the Com­ a treaty generally must be implemented by monwealth Government as may seem legislation. The Commonwealth Parliament expedient. has the power to enact the necessary legisla­ The objects of the proposal are, broadly­ tion in fields wherein that power has been to develop co-operative federalism in the conferred upon that Parliament by the Com­ field of Australia's external relations where monwealth Constitution. The State Parliament Queensland is affected; has the exclusive power to enact it in fields wherein that legis'lative power has not to enable the State Parliament to deter­ been conferred upon the Commonwealth mine the legislative means by which it Parliament. will give effect to the provisions of treaties and conventions; Hitherto there has been no machinery to assist the State Government to bring whereby the Parliament of the State could to the notice of the Commonwealth Gov­ be advised of its responsibilities to enact ernment treaties or conventions considered legislation which is necessary for the Com­ to be beneficial to Queensland; and monwealth to discharge its obligations under to establish regular machinery to obtain international treaties. information on what is pending and its As a result, liaison between the Com­ likely effect upon Queensland and to seek monwealth and State authorities in this matter to achieve co-operation with and by the has been incomplete in some cases. The Commonwealth Government. increasing participation of Australia in inter­ As I have said, we seek through this national affairs means that new and imagina­ Bill to establish a Treaties Commission, tive steps must be taken to ensure that which we are convinced will assist in expedit­ this liaison will be complete in all cases. ing consideration of international treaties and Broadly speaking, treaties entered into by conventions in so far as they affect the Australia are either multilateral or bilateral. domestic affairs of this State and will also Conflict with the domestic policies of the provide an avenue for a ready exchange State would not be expected from bilatera,l of informed opinion between the Common­ treaties. However, with the advent of the wealth Government and the Government of International Labour Organisation and the this State. United Nations, conventions have been Mr. TUCKER (Townsville West-Leader adopted which are multilateral and affect of the Opposition) (7 .22 p.m.): The Premier internal sociological relations within the State. introduced this measure in a very cool, low­ key way. That should surely make us begin Each year about 60 multilateral conven­ to look for the nigger in the woodpile; we tions are negotiated internationally, and they immediately wonder where the catch is. It cover almost every field of government­ has taken the Premier a long time to find industrial relations, pollution, containerisation, out that we need such legislation. Perhaps I flora and fauna, health, professional qualifica­ will be forgiven for asking why it has taken tions, status of women, education, com­ the Government 17 years to discover sud­ merce, shipping, court procedures, mainten­ denly that we need a Treaties Commission ance payments, wills and trusts, trade marks. in Queensland. human rights, civil liberties and criminal law, to take some instances. Mr. Porter: We did not have Marxist centralists in Canberra before. The scope of the legislative steps necessary to implement treaties is a matter requiring Mr. TUCKER: Perhaps the honourable careful examination in each case. The purpose member for Toowong has just put his finger of this Bill is to make provision for the on what we are worrying about. I was waiting establishment of a Treaties Commission to for that interjection. I thought some political report to Parliament on the legislation that ass would come in on it. I thank the hon­ is essential to treaty implementation. The ourable member very much for what he has functions of the commission will be- done. We become suspicious when, after 17 years, it suddenly becomes necessary, for to examine international treaties and con­ Queensland's sake, to introduce legislation ventions, whether or not they are in force, that will, as ·the Premier said, be beneficial with a view to assessing their benefit to to Queensland. The honourable member for or effect upon Queensland; Toowong more or less confirmed that we to report from time to time to this Parlia­ should have fears when by way of inter­ ment upon the legislation which would jection he said, "We did not have Marxist be necessary or desirable to give effect centralists in Canberra before." Surely he in Queensland to the undertakings entered implied that this is designed against Can­ into or to be entered into by the Com­ berra. As I see it at the moment it is monwealth Government pursuant to inter­ certainly in no way designed to ensure national treaties and conventions; and co-operation with Canberra a1though the to advise the Government from time to Premier referred to that in his speech. I time respecting international treaties and again thank the honourable member for conventions to which Australia is not a Toowong for showing us the real purpose party but which would be beneficial to of this legislation. Queensland, so that the Government may Mr. Murray: He helped you, didn't he? Treaties Commission Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Treaties Commission Bill 1713

Mr. TUCKER: I suppose that he has been to the detriment of the good relations helpful on a number of occasions, although between Queensland and the Australian Gov­ I am not sure in what way. On this occasion ernment, the Opposition will oppose it at the he certainly was helpful and I thank him. second-reading stage. The Premier referred to treaties to which Mr. W. D. HEWITT (Chatsworth) (7.28 Australia is not a party but which may be p.m.): It is surprising that the Leader of the beneficial to Queensland. I did not quite Opposition should protest so strongly--- understand what he meant. What treaty would be beneficial to Queensland that could Mr. Marginson: Be quiet. not be beneficial to Australia? As the Premier made that statement I ask him to Mr. W. D. HEWITT: I will not be quiet. tell us in reply what he has in mind. I think I would ask the honourable member, in I quoted him correctly. He said that the turn, to be quiet. commission will examine these international The Leader of the Opposition, among treaties and their effect upon Queensland. other things, is a delegate to the Australian Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: Don't you think it is Constitutional Convention. If he would look very necessary that we do that, with your at the many matters referred to the working mates down there? parties he would find that one of the parties has applied itself very vigorously to the Mr. TUCKER: This is what we have been subject of the external powers of the Com­ waiting for. It did not take us long to monwealth Government and how those wake up to the Premier. He played it cool powers are exercised with regard to the and in low key and appeared to think that States. by doing that he would allay our fears and would not draw attention to what he is When the Constitution was written in really doing. 1901, the powers of the Commonwealth were defined under section 51. Section 51, in giving Mr. Chinchen: You are a Queenslander, the Commonwealth certain powers, referred aren't you? You have said so. in subsection (xxix) to external affairs. There is little doubt that the founding fathers Mr. TUCKER: That is right. I am a in their great wisdom intended that to apply Queens!ander. Might I ask: is the honourable to international treaties and agreements. member an Australian? I am a Queens­ Indeed, I think that the same sentiment pre­ lander, but is he an Australian? vailed when they gave the Commonwealth Mr. Chinch en: Yes, of course, but a power over naval and military defence of Queenslander as well. the Commonwealth in subsection 6 of the same section. However, it was the clear Mr. TUCKER: That is all I want to know. intention that external affairs should relate I am a Queenslander and I am an Australian. to what is literally true of those words­ Sometimes I wonder whether the members external affairs. of the Government are Australians or whether they are confined to a very low In the intervening years, the issue has political mental horizon. become muddied. Indeed, it was a significant issue many years ago when Mr. Justice Evatt Mr. Knox: Do you think every Queens­ was on the bench-it goes back as many lander has a low mental horizon? years as that-and he and Mr. Justice McTiernan ruled quite clearly that treaties Mr. TUCKER: I say that the Minister­ entered into externally could bind the States he specifically-is confined to a very low equally. It is because this matter has never political mental horizon. It is a pity he been clarified that the Premier deems it has the portfolio he has, because I do not desirable to set up in this State an advisory think he does justice to it. committee which can tell him the effects of external agreements that may be entered into Because this is obviously controversial, I by the Commonwealth. How much further am prepared to allow it to pass through the that body can go than merely advising the introductory stage. Quite frankly, we do not Parliament I do not pretend to know, but I know what is in it. On behalf of the think it is timely that, if there is an intrusion Opposition I say that, although we will into State affairs through the external power allow the Bill through this stage, we will of the Commonwealth, the Parliament should consider it in detail when it is printed. How­ be apprised of it. ever, I give notice now that, if we can find something in it that is quite obviously to Lumb and Ryan, in their book "The the detriment of the State and that is going Constitution of the Commonwealth of to continue the Premier's political paranoiac Australia Annotated" referred extensively to approach to the Commonwealth Government this external power. I think it would be and his confrontation with the Commonwealth useful to the Committee to put some of that Government, the Opposition will oppose it at book into "Hansard". They say- the second-reading stage. However, I am "Although in the nature of things, the prepared on behalf of the Opposition to Australian States cannot possess inter­ look at it word by word, phrase by phrase national personality, and for this reason and sentence by sentence. If then I feel s. 51 (xxix) like s. 51 (vi) looks to a that it is to the detriment of the State and dominant Commonwealth legislature, it 1714 Treaties Commission Bill [29 OcTOBER 1974] Treaties Commission Bill

must be remembered that neither s. 51 co-operative federalism, if I heard him cor­ (xxix) nor s. 51 (vi) are so expressed as rectly. He spoke of the desirability of to give the Commonwealth exclusive having a special treaties committee or com­ power. Indeed, the Commonwealth has mission, firstly, to examine international adopted the practice that where a treaty treaties and, secondly, to advise the State requires consequential legislation in a Government on international treaties and field in which the States alone have power, conventions. He also said-and it is some­ then that legislation ought to be passed what laughable-that this committee could by the State legislatures." bring to the notice of the Commonwealth So there is a spirit of co-operation that is Government any desirable treaty it came touched upon by Lumb and Ryan. across. So he built up the picture that thi~ is a real chance for the State to co-operate They further say- with the Commonwealth. "This question of legislative power must be distinguished from the question whether The honourable member for Toowong the Crown in right of the States has really let the cat out of the bag, and, retained a concurrent prerogative power. It as the Leader of the Opposition pointed has been suggested that before federation out, it did not take him very long to do the Crown in right of the colonies possessed it. We quickly realised that the basic aim a nascent, if seldom used, treaty power. of the proposed legislation is to encroach Today the States retain Agents-General in upon and usurp the powers of the Com­ London; they also have representatives in monwealth. It will do more than that. other countries. And those representatives It takes us back, Mr. Lickiss, to colonial negotiate with foreign governments in a times, because in those days each of the wide range of matters within State power." colonies had its own treaties with inter­ national neighbours. It was the role of So it is clear that with the maturity of the each Governor and the various councils States, they have established international that were set up to determine the treaties contact and indeed international contractual they would have. Surely those days have relationships. It is quite proper that if they passed. Surely we are now living in the are to be bound by foreign treaties, they 20th century, in the 1970's, when we have should have some say in the matter. accepted that there are three specific spheres If the Committee looked at the recom­ for the three areas of government. We mendation that flows to the next Constitu­ say that the role of local government is tional Convention, whenever it will be held, to deal with the grassroots problems of the we would see that the sentiment that the nation. Premier enunciates is one that is substantially embraced by most delegates who go to that Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: We want your people convention. The recommendation that will in Canberra to keep to their own sphere. flow to the convention reads in these terms- "The recommendation of the working Mr. WRIGHT: I accept that point because party is that the Constitution be altered it substantiates what I am now saying. We to provide that the legislative authority have said that local government has a cer­ conferred by section 51 (xxix) should not tain area of responsibility and a certain extend to empower the Parliament of the administrative role to play. We have also Commonwealth to legislate domestically said that the States have a certain role and for the implementation of any treaty or areas of responsibility. Again, we have international agreement except where the said that national and international quest­ treaty or agreement deals with a subject tions must surely be the responsibility of properly or indisputably of an international a national Government, that is, of the character or an international concern, to Australian Government. In spite of that, which Australia is a party." we are now going to set up a special Treaties There has been a great body of opinion for Commission to deal with international many years which has said that section 51 questions. (xxix) should be more definitive ·SO that the external power of the Commonwealth means I know that in the last 73 years there just that--external power-and no more. has been an erosion of the principle of federalism. But that has not been because I am quite sure that the Australian of Labor Governments. It has been because Constitutional Convention, when it recon­ of the desirability of such erosion; it has venes, will demonstrate wisdom and will been because the States have seen fit to embrace the recommendation that flows to allow certain powers to be passed to the it from this working party. In the mean­ Commonwealth. I cite as an example the time, there can be no harm in this State's financial situation that exists in this country having an advisory committee which can advise the Parliament of the effects of inter­ today. In 1927 no-one grabbed the States national agreements and treaties and con­ by the neck and said, "You have to give tractual arrangements entered into by the up your financial powers." In the 1940's the Commonwealth. States accepted the decision of the High Court relative to uniform tax. All the time that Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (7.34 p.m.): the Menzies Government was in office, no The purpose of this Bill is allegedly the move was made by it to give back financial achievement of what the Premier calls powers to the States. Treaties Commission Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Treaties Commission Bill 1715

I did not hear the Premier yelling and He said that we have a paranoiac approach. screaming before 1972 for greater financial If that is the best he can do to provide an responsibility. It seems that it is only since answer in a political argument, he certainly Whitlam came to power in Canberra that deserves all that is coming to him on the we have been waving the Queensland flag first Saturday in December. He said that and wanting to have a Queensland anthem. we displayed a paranoiac approach to the If we are going to begin interfering in Federal Government. I ask him again: international problems, will we have a What of the decisions the polls have shown Queensland Army? We already have one in this State over recent months? There plane towards our Air Force. What are we was a tremendous rejection of six referendum going to have next? We are certainly questions-a 60:40 rejection. In the May t:roding the area of responsibility that is Federal election honourable members oppos­ clearly centred in the domain of the Com­ ite not only were beaten but they had their monwealth Government. noses rubbed in the mud. We won six of Mr. B. Wood: Can you imagine foreign 10 Senate positions. Is the Leader of the Governments wanting to deal with Queens­ Opposition going to suggest that Queens­ land electors, too, are paranoiacs? Let :land? him tell them that when he gets on the Mr. WRIGHT: I doubt it very much. hustings. The fact is that the people of Possibly some might, because the Premier Queensland support the stands we are taking and some of his Ministers have an affinity on behalf of this State. with certain nations such as South Africa Five years ago in an Address-in-Reply and Rhodesia. speech I "'arned of the way in which power; r believe there is a time for co-operation, was moving from the periphery to the centre and this is such a time. But it takes -from the States to Canberra. two people to co-operate; it takes two organisations to co-operate; and it takes two Mr. Tucker: Who started it? levels of government to co-operate. If there is to be co-operation in this nation, Mr. PORTER: I have said time and time the States must accept their responsibilties. again that when our Government was in Instead of usurping or endeavouring to office in Canberra we contributed to the undermine the authority of the Common­ growing loss of State independence. But wealth, the States should set about co-oper­ the acceleration that has taken place since ating with it. the A.L.P. Government came to office has been enormous. I have pointed out that Mr. PORTER (Toowong) (7.38 p.m.): The things were happening apace because of honourable member for Rockhampton had so the use of the tied-grants machinery and so little to say that he obviously ran out of on, and that we must beware of what might material in a very short time indeed­ lie ahead of the States if the central Gov­ particularly for him. ernment used its treaty-making powers to We needed no crystal ball to be able to subvert the Commonwealth Constitution and predict how the A.L.P. would see the pro­ take over from the States. Many dark days posed Bill. Of course, it has to be seen have dawned since the Labor Government in its proper frame of reference And what came to office, and the day has now come is that frame of reference? The frame of when the threat of the use of the treaty­ reference is that since December 1972 we making power of the Commonwealth in have had an A.L.P. Federal Government that, order to overcome the sovereign powers of despite massive rejections at the polls, has the States is upon us. been hell-bent on imposing a kind of Marxist We have a Federal A.L.P. Government centralism, with all power collected in which is determined, with a bigoted, fanatical Canberra. ruthlessness, to smash the Australian federal The Leader of the Opposition can now get system, despite what the people of Aus­ it. It is all said; there it is. He can tralia have said about not changing the federal use it for the record as much as he wishes. system in every poll whenever this question '\nd if he thinks that the people of Queens­ has been raised. We have this central A.L.P. land and the people of Australia do not Government in Canberra which is determined, agree with me, let him read the results of if it can, to sweep the States into the gutters the poll on 7 December. We will then of history. I for one make it quite clear see who is right and who is wrong. that I will do all I can to stop it. I am proud to be able to support the Premier The Leader of the Opposition was so in the stands that he has made, which genial as to thank me for making that have had a tremendous effect on halting the point. Are we to believe that he is so naive Whitlam Government's attempt to secure and so witless as not to understand that essential power throughout Australia. it is necessary for State Governments nowa­ days to take protective stands that were not We have to view this Bill against its necessary before December 1972? Or is it proper background, and the background the fact that he is so gutless that he will plainly is that we have had attempts to not stand up for this State against his eliminate the federal system by literally Federal masters? That is much more to every manner and means which can be the point. devised to attack it. We have had proposals 1716 Treaties Commission Bill [29 OcTOBER 1974] Treaties Commission Bill

for direct grants to local authorities; pro­ do not read it and realise that the step-by­ posals for control of off-shore resources from step programme towards the complete cen­ the low-tide mark-literally pushing the tralisation of power is there written for all States out of the seabed; we have had specific to see. As I said before, the A.L.P. crowd tied grants with Commonwealth personnel are carrying it out step by dreadful, horrible on State instrumentalities to ensure that the step. money is spent as Canberra directs. These Mr. Murray: It is the only thing they are days we cannot even determine how we honest about, really. spend our own money on our own roads. Because Commonwealth money is being used, Mr. PORTER: The honourable gentlemen we are told what to do with our own road­ here do not seem to like any of us talking making money. That is part of the cost about it too much. The honourable member we must pay. for Rockhampton did a first-rate "snow" job of trying to pretend that it was a dreadful We have had a unilateral approach to the thing for us to suggest that the Federal United Kingdom on the Privy Council, which, Government should not be permitted to make of course we have managed to checkmate. -treaties. How dare we! How dare we curtail We have' had an attempt to institute a the right of the Federal Government in this nationalised health plan, which was defeated treaty-making area! The plain fact of the by the good sense of the people. We have matter is that the Bill does nothing whatever had control over housing grants to ensure to abrogate the right of the Federal Gov­ that only rental homes will be built with ernment to make treaties. It cannot. It is a Government moneys in future-the resur­ simple constitutional fact that it cannot, but rection of the old Dedman plan to prevent what we are doing is making quite cer­ Australia becoming a nation of little capital­ tain-- ists by allowing people to own their own homes. \Ve have had total control of all Mr. Leese interjected. building societies and a fantastic r!se in The CHAIRMAN: Order! I inform the interest rates to ensure that people w1ll not honourable member for Pine Rivers that be able to accumulate assets by way of persistent interjections will not be tolerated their own homes. We have had control of by the Chair. all the basic resources through the ministeries for development and export controls, and, Mr. PORTER: We are making quite cer­ of course, we have had enormous changes tain that the Federal Government will not through the A.I.D.C. be able to use the treaty-making power in order to do what it cannot achieve by other Everything that this A.L.P. crowd has constitutional means, which is to take over done since they attained office has been the areas of responsibility that are properly devoted to the one end-smash the States; those of the States. put the power into Canberra. It is for this reason that this State has taken leads which A moment's thought will indicate how in have been followed by most of the other many areas this can be done. The Federal States and I prophesy that this particular Government can, in fact, manipulate, direct, lead be followed by the other States in reduce or deny the State's entry into various ~ill domestic fields simply by saying, "This is quick time. To ensure that this State's part of a treaty we have signed with another sovereignty cannot be swept aside, that we country." We should remember that in the will not be swept into history's gutters, we near future Papua New Guinea will be a have taken leads and done things which were separate nation right on our -threshold and never necessary until after December 1972- there may be a great interchange of traffic the proposal to retain our right to appeal to between the two countries. If it is suggested the Privy Council, the proposal to make the then that the Federal Government can com­ Queen the Queen of Queensland and now pletely determine what are the domestic this proposal to ensure that the Common­ arrangements in so many areas that we in wealth Government will not be affected in this State should determine, there will be making treaties but that it cannot use its no more need for the State Government. treaty-making power to overcome the State's responsibilities. That is literally all it does. This Bill is a sensible and moderate one. All these things are links in a causitive chain It is another link in the chain that we are and we cannot look at one of them in carefully forging to protect Queensland isolation. All of them are important and against the voracious attempts of a bigoted, all have to be resis>ted. One cannot resist an fanatical A.L.P. Government in Canberra to enemy on one part of a front only. try to turn the whole of Australia into one Marxist, socialist State. Mr. Chinchen: The platform of the A.L.P. Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (7.49 p.m.): The states that maximum power should be trans­ speech by the honourable member for Too­ ferred from the States to the central Govern­ wong makes this legislation all the more ment. suspect. On this occasion, let us put back to the Government exactly what it has put onto Mr. PORTER: The honourable member the Australian Government every time any­ for Mt. Gravatt is quite right. This is the thing has been suggested for the good of A.L.P. "Mein Kampf". It is a pity people this State. To use the Premier's words, "We Treaties Commission Bill (29 OCTOBER 1974) Treaties Commission Bill 1717 will have a very close look at it." Just as if this Queensland Government is allowed to the State Government claims that anything continue with the political trickery that it done by the Australian Government is sus­ has perpetrated on the people of this State pect, so, too, is this legislation suspect. since December 1972. In a hard-fought The honourable member for Chatsworth game of politics the Queensland Government referred to the Constitutional Convention and is showing no concern whatever for the to the fact that the subcommittee was to hold people of the State. Rather it is st'fiving to a further meeting early in the first week in bring about the downfall of the Labor November. One of its aims is the protection Government in Canberra. That has been the of State rights as they were envisaged over Government's plan ever since Labor came to 70 years ago by those who framed the office in 1972. The State election date of 7 Commonwealth Constitution. Before anyone December was not accidental. It was a attempts to 'lalk about the Commonwea:lth further move to try to ensure that Labor did Constitution he should read it from cover to not get one three-year term in which to cover. control inflation or overcome the economic difficulties that confront Australia. The Mr. R. E. Moore: You've never even Governmen~ of Queensland is doing its looked at it. damnedest to see that Labor does not get an opportunity to overcome the problems con­ Mr. NEWTON: Of course I have. As a fronting Australia. representative of Queensland at the Con­ stitutional Convention I have studied it Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: Why did they create closely. Incidentally, it was the Libe'fal­ the problems? Country Party Government in Victoria that called for the Constitutional Convention and Mr. NEWTON: Everything the Government a close examination of our Constitution. has done, even in this last session of Parlia­ No-one need have any fears about the rights ment, has been shameful and designed to of the States; they are completely protected prevent the Australian Government from under the Commonwealth Constitution. getting this country back onto a sound footing. Mr. Frawley: They should be, but your Uniform legislation will come into it next. rotten mob have twisted it shockingly. It should not be forgotten that whenever Mr. NEWTON: In making such an out­ the Government was not sure where it was burst the honourable member for Murrumba going on legislation after taking office in is casting a reflection on the judges of the 1957, it gave as tits reason for not proceeding Australian High Court as well as on other with legislation that it was waiting to see learned persons who are experts in the what the other States intended to do. constitutional field. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I hope the The entire problem that confronts us is the honourable member will relate his comments result of the 20 years that Australia was to the motion before the Committee. governed in the Federal sphere by a dead Liberal-Country Party Government. The Mr. NEWTON: Treaties are treaties coalition parties took no action whatever to whether they are national or international. implement the terms of the Constitution· it A similar situation will arise with uniform suited them to hold back the States as ~ell legislation. as the nation as a whole. The Constitution It should not be forgotten that when local has virtually been dead for years, and now authority representation was raised at the that a Federal Labor Government is trying Constitutional Convention, the Tories opposed to revive ,i,t the Queensland Govemment the proposal. Because the A.L.P. recognises hastily introduces legislation of this type. local authorities 1as a sphere of Government, I am a good Queenslander and a good we were quite willing to have local authority Australian, one who is proud of his country representatives sitting in to submit their and has done a lot for it. I have done more case on the Constitution in the same way for Australia than the Premier has done. as the States. In view of all the hooey about housing The honourable member for Toowong and putting blame for the housing situation harps on the election of 18 May last, and on the Australian Government, h should be boasts, "We won six senate seats out of 10." remembered that the Queensland Government He has conveniently forgotten that the has never had cheaper money than it is Liberal-Country Parties won the sixth seat getting from the Australian Government for by a whisker. home-ownership and rental accommodation Mr. Wright: They lost the election. in the State. Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: What did you have Mr. NEWTON: Of course they did; the for dinner? I Labor Government was returned to power in Canberra. Mr. NEWTON: I had an ordinary meal. It is quite evident to the Opposition-and Like the Leader of the Opposition and it must be obvious to the people of Queens­ other Opposinion spokesmen I am sick and laud-that Queensland is drifting apart fwm tired of what we have experienced so the other States. The rift will become wider often in this Parliament and again tonight. 1718 Treaties Commission Bill [29 OcTOBER 1974] Treaties Commission Bill

As my leadetP said, thls measure was intro­ Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: We will see duced very quietly by the Premier in the how loyal the honourable member is when hope that we would not discover the sinister the opportunity comes to vote on this BilL motive behind it. We will see whether he dingoes on Queens­ A Government Member interjected. land. He will get his chance. He spoke about cheap money. Goodness me, that is why Mr. NEWTON: The more Government I asked him what he had for dinner. He spe,akers there are, the more the cat will be only has to ask the young people how let out of the bag. There is no uniformity much interest they are paying for their between the Natlional and Liberal Parties. money today. I thought he was more alert One is always trying to get on top of and wide awake than to talk about interest the other. rates for housing now as compared with We see this motion as a means of present­ the rates in the days of the Liberal-Country ing the same old picture of gloom and fear Party Government in Canberra. for Queensland. I agree with my leader that This is not a general debate, but the we should examine it closely. The Govern­ appeal was made to me to give their col­ ment may rest assured that, unless the gag is leagues in Canberra a chance to rectify the applied to stop the debate, we will debate inflationary situation and the high unemploy­ the issue at length if we find anything ment. They created it. detrimental-- Mr. Marginson: Go away. Mr. Frawley: When are you getting Jack back? Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Of course they did. Now the appeal is, "Give us a chance Mr. NEWTON: The honourable member to right it." After all that, the only thing for Murrumba thinks he is the smartest inter­ left is to throw that Government out. The jector in the Chamber. This is the only people of Australia will throw them out­ place where he can make such remarks. and the sooner the better. The only solution He would not be game to say OIUtside what to the problem is to get rid of the A.L.P. he says here about Gerry Dawson, Jack Government in Canberra and to keep Labor Hanson, Jack Egerton and all the other fel­ out of office in Queensland. lows. He hasn't the guts to do so. His interjections do not mean a thing. If members of the Opposition had listened to my introduction, surely they would have This measure will be looked at very closely fully understood it. I said, to indicate the by the Oppositlion in the light of a number area of responsibilities, that the negotiation of f,actors that have come to our attention of treaties is in fact a matter for the Com­ tonight. monwealth Government. That is clear. We Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah are not usurping or attempting to usurp -Premier) (8 p.m.), in reply: I have been their authority. The State does not seek to very interested in the comments from the interfere in that area. Can honourable mem­ other side of the Chamber. The two speeches bers opposite get that into their heads? made by my colleagues, of course, represented A Government Member: Thick skulls. a sound, practical, common-sense approach to the matter. I appreciate their support. Mr. B.JELKE-PETERSEN: I was about However, once more we saw exactly whose to say "thick skulls", but I wanted to be side honourable members opposite are on. polite. I challenge the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues to vote against this To have an effect in domestic law, a measure. treaty generally must be implemented by legislation. Can honourable members opposite Mr. Newton: We have our rights and we understand that? The Commonwealth Parlia­ will use them. ment has the power to enact the necessary Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honourable legislation in fields wherein that power has member's right, as he sees it, is to support been conferred upon that Parliament by the the Government in Canberra and its socialist Commonwealth Constitution. The State policies. Parliament has the exclusive power to enact it in fields wherein the legislative power Mr. Newton: We will do what we want to has not been conferred upon the Common­ on this side of the Chamber. You won't tell wealth Parliament. That is all we are setting us. out in this Bill. It is to enable the State Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honourable to follow certain procedures. member's Canberra colleagues direct him to support them. He is tied hand and foot Mr. Wright: No-one argues the point you to that Government, as I have always said, make, but there is no need for the legislation. although tonight he is supporting me. Is Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: Then I presume he a loyal Queenslander or is he tied to that the honourable member will support Canberra? it. Mr. Newton: I will take you on any time The day is drawing near when honourable you Iike. members opposite will be able to show The CHAIRMAN: Order! clearly to the Chamber and this State whether Wheat Industry [29 OcTOBER 1974] Stabilization Bill 1719 they are keen to obey Canberra or whether Although this may sound complicated, it they are prepared to stand up for Queensland has the effect of ensuring that the stabilisa­ and its rights. tion price takes some account of changes Motion (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. in actual export prices over a period. In effect, the stabilisation price will tend to Resolution reported. move up or down with changes in export prices over a period. However, the rate of FIRST READING any upward or downward movement will Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. be cushioned by the formula. Bjelke-Petersen, read a first time. The stabilisation price for 197 4-7 5 will be $73.49 per tonne. The home-consumption price under the new scheme will be deter­ WHEAT INDUSTRY STABILIZATION mined in the same manner as in previous BILL schemes. The starting figure will be the INITIATION 1973-74 home-consumption price, which consists of a cost-of-production component Hon. V. B. SULUVAN (Condamine­ of $71.10 per tonne f.o.b. ports, including Minister for Primary Industries), by leave, 69 cents for Tasmanian freight. without notice: I move- The cost-of-production component will be "That the House will, at its present updated from year to year by means of an sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of index of farmers' cash costs and transport the Whole to consider introducing a Bill and handling charges. This index is main­ relating to the marketing of wheat and tained by the Bureau of Agricultural the stabilization of the wheat industry Economics, and is scrutinised by a special and amending the Wheat Delivery Quotas Wheat Index Committee. The Australian Act 1970-1974 in a certain particular." Wheat Growers' Federation is happy with Motion agreed to. this basis, with rthe exception that they would like to see the owner-operator's allowance included among the costs to be updated from INITIATION IN COMMITTEE year to year. (Mr. Bird, Burdekin, in the chair) I support them strongly in this view. We Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ have pursued this matter with the Common­ Minister for Primary Industries) (8. 7 p.m.): wealth Government, and have been given an I move- undertaking that the question will be recon­ sidered before the 1975-76 season. I see no "That a Bill be introduced relating to reason whatsoever why the wheat farmer the marketing of wheat and the stabliza­ should not have his own labour cost updated tion of the wheat industry and amending in the same way as the rest of the community. the Wheat Delivery Quotas Act 1970-1974 in a certain particular." The other major element in the new scheme concerns the Wheat Industry Stabili­ This Bill sets out to provide for the con­ zation Fund. This fund is to be established tinuation of wheat industry stabilisation with a ceiling of $80,000,000. It will be arrangements for five years commencing with financed by grower contributions, which will the 1974-75 season. Although most of the be paid into the fund when the export price provisions of the new scheme are the same exceeds the stabilization price. as for previous schemes, there are some major differences. Subject to the Fund ceiling of $80,000,000, grower contributions in any one year are The most important difference relates to limited to a maximum of $5.51 per tonne or the guarantee on exports. Under previous $30,000,000, whichever is the lesser. Further, schemes, there has been a specific guarantee no grower contributions are due unless the on a fixed quantity of wheat exported, and average export price in a season exceeds this guarantee has been updated from year $55.12 per tonne. Should the grower-con­ to year by an index of production costs. tributed portion of the fund be exhausted at The new scheme provided for in the Bill any time, the Commonwealth Government is abandons the concept of a fixed guarantee then required to contribute any deficit up to on exports and provides instead for a vari­ a maximum of $80,000,000 over the whole able support level on all wheat exported. period of the scheme. The Commonwealth The variable support level, to be known as contribution under such circumstances is the "stabilisation price", will be based on limited by rthe maximum prescribed payout a formula which reflects, to some extent, from the fund in any one year. movements in actual export prices. The payout from the fund in any one sea­ In essence, the formula provides that the son is limited to a maximum of $5.51 per stabilisation price for a particular year will tonne or $30,000,000, whichever is the be determined by adding to, or substracting lesser. With cuvrent high export prices, it is from, the previous year's stabilisation price expected that grower contributions to the one-quarter of the difference between the fund from the 1973-74 season under the old average export price for the current season scheme will exceed $30,000,000, and a fur­ and the average of the export and stabilisa­ ther hefty grower contribution appears likely tion prices for the previous season. during the first year of the new scheme. Thus 1720 Wheat Industry [29 OCTOBER 1974] Stabilization Bill

it appears highly unlikely that the Common­ These are far ahead of anything in any other wealth Government will be called upon to State, and the State Wheat Board is to be contribute anything during the course of the commended on its operation. scheme. At the very worst, they might be I commend the motion. up for a few dollars in the final year or so if export prices were to fall drastically. Mr. BLAKE (Isis) (8.16 p.m.): The Bill These are the main provisions of the mainly provides for the extension of wheat scheme. Much of the rest deals with more industry stabilisation for the five-year period formal matters. commencing with the 1974-75 season. The Australian Wheat Board will continue Mr. P. Wood: It is a pretty good scheme, to be the marketing authority for all Aus­ too. tralian wheat, and the board's powers will extend for two years beyond the stabilization Mr. BLAKE: Yes, it is. It has been arrangements. This is not new, and it is fashioned in conjunction with the States after necessary to enable the making and filling of negotiations-unfortunately at times very forward contracts. protracted negotiations-and we are pleased to see them come to fruition. The scheme One aspect which has been of considerable has been delayed far beyond what we concern to wheat growers throughout Aus­ thought would be the time taken for agree­ tralia concerns the Federal Minister's powers ment. Unfortunately, objections have, in the of direction over the board. main, coincided with certain State elections or changes in State Government. About 12 Mr. P. Wood: They have always been months ago we looked like reaching agree­ there. ment when the Minis-ter introduced a Bill for extension of the existing agreement. At Mr. SULLIVAN: They have always been that time, he said that he thought we would there, but they have not been exercised very have agreement on it. If I remember cor­ often, have they? I suggest that the honour­ rectly, there was an election in New South able member listens, because he might not Wales about that time, and the Government know a great deal about this. in that State suddenly found cause to find fault with the agreement. After that was We all remember the trouble that arose hauled off the rocks, there was a change of over certain sales to Egypt. Government in Western Australia, and the Mr. P. Wood: That has been fixed up. Government of that State decided it was an opportune time to find fault with what was an almost completed and agreed upon Mr. SULLIVAN: It might have been fixed wheat stabilisation agreement. up, but the honourable member appears not to be on the side of the growers. I have Although the agreement provides for a asked him to listen to what I am saying. I five-year period, it is subject to modification. hope he will agree to do so. As the Minister said, it contains provision, in respect of the next crop, to write in an This trouble is being taken care of in the adjustment of the owner-operator allowance, new legislation. If in future the Common­ to allow for changing wage values and a wealth Government directs the board regard­ return to a person for his own efforts. ·ing overseas sales, then the Commonwealth will have to pick up the tab if there is any In this instance it is the usual basic loss involved. Does the honourable member principle of stabilisation. Of course, that for Toowoomba South agree with that? basic principle is payment by •the industry into a stabilisation fund when the return for Mr. P. Wood: I agree with it, and the the wheat exceeds a certain price, and con­ Commonwealth is doing it. tribution to the fund by the Government when the return to 1the producer falls below a certain level. Mr. SULUVAN: Don't you think it is good that it ,is being done? The Minister has explained that the new scheme provides for a stabilised price which Mr. P. Wood: It is the Commonwealth, will vary according to a formula which not the State, that is doing it. reflects movements of wheat prices on the export market. Mr. SULLIVAN: The Bill will also extend Mr. P. Wood: It is a very good idea. the wheat quota legislation. This is necessary to retain the machinery for quotas should Mr. BLAKE: It is a very good idea because they again become necessary at any time. ! the structure of the stabilisation will be in sincerely hope they will not, and power is keeping with the world market for wheat. already contained in the legislation to sus­ Instead of a stabilisation on a fixed price pend quotas for any season or seasons. level for export wheat, the new guaranteed price level will vary by one-quarter of the The only other point I wish to make at difference between the current season's price this stage is that the Bill as drafted con­ level and the previous season's price level. tinues to protect the operation of Queens­ In other words, whether the fluctuation be land's excellent hail insurance, classification, up or down, there will be an automatic quality premium and seed wheat schemes. adjustment. Although it does reflect market Wheat Industry [29 OcTOBER 1974] Stabilization Bill 1721

levels to some extent, the formula will pro­ at the same time. I think Government mem­ vide a very effective shock absorber to the bers are beginning to believe this. They fluctuartions and variations. are ashamed of the word "Australian"; they The variation in the cost-of-production want to disown it. They want to- think that component will •also be reviewed from year one can be only a Queenslander, that one to year on Bureau of Agricultural Economics cannot be a Queenslander and an Australian criteria. These criteria will be scrutinised as well. by a spedal Wheat Index Committee. The industry and the wheat farmeu-s themselves are The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. quite happy about this arrangement but I Bird): Order! The honourable member will would be pleased if the Minister, at a later return to the subject of the motion. stage, would explain to us the exact com­ position of this Wheat Index Committee. Mr. BLAKE: I will, Mr. Bird. I was I accept that it must be effective or the indus­ provoked. try would not be agreeing to- it, but, if he As I say, it has been agreed on by all could enlighten us a little more on the the States. I do not say it has been composition of the co-mmittee, I am sure implemented, but the principles have been this Committee wo-uld be interested in the agreed on by all the States. There is no information. point in talking •any further. As a matter There is little or no point in re-analysing of fact, after that interjection, it lis a very the details of the grower and/ o-r the Aus­ refreshing change indeed to find that for once tralian Government contributions to the Queensland, in recent times anyhow, is $80,000,000 ceiling of the stabilisation fund. accepting without opposition a proposition I support, and I am sure the Opposition which [s of a national or Australian flavour. generally does, the retention of the quota We in the Opposition reserve the right machinery although it might seem to have to comment on the Bill when it has been no useful purpo-se at the present time. M·any printed and read but we hasten to assist the wheat growers have s·aid to- me that it Government in completing the introductory sho-uld be an open go and they ask, "What stage because it might withdraw this legis­ do you want to retain the quota machinery lation claiming that its national flavour is for?'' As a matter of fact, present market such that it represents an erosion of State prospects are such that it is an open go rights. and anyone who wants to back his own judgment can certainly have an open go; but Mr. P. WOOD (Toowoomba South) (8.25 wheat, sugar and many othel!' products are p.m.): I rise to support the honourable produced over such a wide area, in such member for Isis, who welcomed the intro­ differing climatic conditions and in such vol­ duction of this legislation. As he said, the ume that a shortage can develop in a negotiations that led to this stabilisation very short time. Conversely, if the seasons agreement have been protracted and difficult, are favourable in the major producing and unreasonable delays and complications countries in the one year there can be a arose from the actions of the conservative sudden overflow resulting in an excess of Governments of Western Australia and New production over demand, and growers are South Wales. then quickly in trouble again. I am sure that this is why the industry and the Austra­ After hearing the Premier's comments Han Government want to retain the quota when introducing his Treaties Commission machinery. It is doing nobody any harm; Bill earlier today, I wonder why he has not it is there to be used should the necessity prevented the introduction of this measure, arise. On the pro-spects I hope that it will which is socialist and centralist by nature. not be required for a long time, but I agree The Australian Government or Common­ that there is little point in disbanding the wealth Government--call it what you will­ machinery when it is not restlflicting effective is providing guarantees of the order of production or discouraging production in any $80,000,000, and the Australian Government way. The time may come when it will be has negotiated this arrangement. How can needed again. the Premier, therefore, in all honesty agree to centralism of this type-this domina-· The Australian wheat industry organisa­ tion by the Australian Government? If he tions throughout all States have reached were consistent he would present legislation agreement with the Australian Government to allow the State Government to arrange on this five-year stabilisation plan. wheat stabilisation agreements, wheat markets Mr. R. E. Moore: What about the Com­ and quota systems. If he were sincere in monwealth Government? his outlook he would introduce a State stabilisation agreement, fix State wheat Mr. BLAKE: Now that the honourable quotas and provide for wheat-marketing on member wants to argue the pros and cons a State basis. But, of course, he is neither between an Australian Government and a sincere nor consistent in this respect. This Commonwealth Government, I should like is good legislation and as such has our to endorse the remarks of my leader here wholehearted support. toruight. We are getting from the Govern­ ment side the paranoiac idea that a person Mr. Blake: He might think it is an intru· cannot be a Queenslander and an Australian sion into private enterprise. 1722 Wheat Industry [29 OCTOBER 1974} Stabilization Bill

Mr. P. WOOD: Of course it is an intrusion Variations in wheat prices on the inter­ into private enterprise, but, as I say, he is national market are a fact of life, as is the not consistent. The wheat grower has little escalation of producers' costs. free enterprise-! will not say he has no The first element of the scheme-it has free enterprise-and is subject to quotas. been dealt with by both the Minister and Owing to present market conditions, how• the member for Isis-is a fixed domestic ever, they are not presently in operation. price for wheat to be adjusted annually from Nevertheless the wheat grower is required to the level of the 1973-74 season, to be carried market his crop through a statutory organisa· out by index methods for the duration of tion. He has no free enterprise in either the scheme. the growing or the marketing of his wheat. The second element is a stabilisation price Mr. Lee: He must revel in it, you reckon? covering all export wheat. Under the pre­ vious scheme the guaranteed price covered Mr. P. WOOD: He is quite happy to only 200,000,000 bushels. The present scheme have this socialism. If the Premier were covers all export wheat. That is clearly a great fair dinkum, he would condemn wheat advance in the protection of the wheat indus­ stabilisation, which is a measure of social· try. In common with the proposals sub­ ism. Where are his pleas on behalf of mitted in September last year by the Austra­ free enterprise? There is certainly not much lian Wheat Growers' Federation, the major free enterprise in a wheat stabilisation agree· objectives of the scheme ~re to . give ~he ment nor in a wheat quota system. Yet wheat industry some secunty agamst pnce the growers like it that way because they fluctuations without distorting the underlying enjoy a degree of stability and prosperity trend in market prices and to keep the cost which they would not have without a system to the Australian public within definite limits. of this type. At a time when there are some complaints Mr. Blake: Would you say the wheat from rural lobbyists about the Australian industry is almost as socialised as the sugar Government, it is significant to note that industry? the proposals from the Australian Wheat Growers' Federation have been accepted in Mr. P. WOOD: It certainly is. Again I this new scheme, which moderates the impact say that is exactly the way the growers want of fluctuating prices on the international it; they know that under this socialist system market. This scheme continues the orderly they derive maximum benefit from their pro­ marketing arrangements through the Austra­ duction. lian Wheat Board-that is a vote of con­ This stabilisation agreement was drawn up fidence in the board-which the industry as the result of negotiations between the has enjoyed since the first post-war stabili­ the Australian Government, led by Senator sation scheme commenced under a Labor Ken Wriedt, the wheat growers through Government in 1948. their federation, and the State Governments Once again we see a Labor Government through their Ministers for Primary Indus­ introducing the first major . innovation .for tries. The Queensland Minister would have the protection of the wheat mdustry agamst been a party to those negotiations. fluctuating prices and incomes. Mr. Lee: Do you really know what Mr. Lee: You just said it was a socialist "socialisation" means? Government. Mr. P. WOOD: The arrangements under Mr. P. WOOD: We have been talking which the Government guarantees borrow­ about it here. As I say, the agreement was ings from the Reserve Bank by the Austra­ the result of negotiation between the three lian Wheat Board will continue. I remind parties, and it is a noticeable advance on the honourable member for Y eronga that previous agreements. I think the Minister Government guarantees are a measure of will agree with that. Although he expressed socialism. one or two reservations, I am sure he would agree that the growers generally support These arrangements have enabled the this scheme, which could not have been put board to maintain the first advance payment into effect without the initiation, support and over the years, even when the average return co-operation of the Australian Labor Gov­ has fallen to lower levels. The stabilisation ernment. That should be given due recogni­ price for the year 1974-75 will be set at tion. $2 a bushel-considerably more than the guaranteed $1.60 a bushel in 1973-74. The The wheat stabilisation scheme is a deter­ stabilisation price-this is a very important mined effort to overcome a problem inherent matter-will be adjusted in each of the suc­ in the previous scheme. That problem arose ceeding four years by the application of from the confrontation then existing between a formula that was agreed to by the industry the price and cost of production on the one and the Government. It was a co-operative hand and world prices on the other, which agreement and the Minister was a party to had no relationship whatever with the cost it. The formula will move stabilisation prices of production. It is claimed that these two in line with market trends and, in particular, conflicting issues have been resolved for the will relieve the impact of any sharp declines first time in this scheme, which, as others in overseas values. We all know how high have said-and I support them-is unique. overseas prices are at the moment. Wheat Industry [29 OCTOBER 1974] Stabilization Bill 1723

I believe that with grower returns linked arrangements were made and then it was more closely to the market-place a more desired by the board ,that the arrangements economic allocation of resources will be be altered. encouraged within the wheat industry and I had the impression that the Minister in the rural sector generally. It will go a long his introduction indicated that the Bill would way towards providing flexibility for the correct that situation. In fact, I have the grower. relevant legislation passed by the Austr~lia!l Under past schemes the guaranteed price Parliament. Probably when the State B1ll IS moved in line with changes in assessed cost printed, we will see sections dealing with of production. This proposal is an innova­ these powers of direction by the Australian tion and a protection of wheat growers' Government. incomes against fluctuating prices. I know Mr. Lee interjected. that the wheat industry appreciates the Mr. P. WOOD: This is all complementary co-operation of the Federal and State Gov­ legislation. I hope it has not taken the hon­ ernments. I believe the Minister will ack­ ourable member all this time to realise that. nowledge that. We have just heard a The Australian Government's powers of tirade against socialist dictation, but there direction are set out in the Federal legisla­ is no dictation or direction in this legislation. tion in this way- The fact is that this scheme was worked out in consultation and co-operation with "The Minister may give directions to the wheat industry. A few minutes ago the the Board"- Premier was complaining about certain cen­ that is, the Australian Wheat Board­ tralis! policies. How can he allow this "concerning the performance of its legislation through? functions and the exercise of its powers, and the Board shall comply with ,those Mr. Frawley: Because he is fair and this directions." is good legislation. The previous complaint arose because the Mr. P. WOOD: The Premier simply does Wheat Board said it did not want the growers not know what he is talking about. to suffer any financial loss as a result of directions by the Australian Government. Mr. Lee: What is the formula? The Australian Government has itself agreed to write into the provisions of the new legis­ Mr. P. WOOD: Don't ask me to explain lation protection to growers to the extent the formula. It is a complicated mathematical that if the Federal Minister directs the board procedure. I shall show it to the honourable to do certain things that are against their member later on. commercial judgment, this section comes into This scheme embodies in it all sorts of force. It says- commitments that are quite new and radical. "the Treasurer shall"- I know some Government members will that is, the Federal Treasurer- flinch at that word "radical". Credit com­ "out of moneys appropriated by the Par­ mitments will be embodied in this Bill by an liament for the purpose, pay the amount amendment giving the Wheat Board the of the loss to the Board and the amount opportunity, for the first time, to use credit so paid to the Board shall, for the purposes outside that available within the Govern­ of this Act, be deemed to be part of the ment. That gives it more flexibility in its proceeds of the sale of the wheat by the trading operations. It gives it greater ability Board." to make independent judgments, having the independent source of finance that is now So it is the Australian Government-not just available to it. this Government, but the parties who nego­ tiated the agreement-that is writing into Operations of this sort indicate that the the legislation this financial protection for the Australian Government, in co-operation with board and, as a consequence, for the growers. the State Governments, has confidence in the At a time when we hear rural lobbyists com­ Wheat Board-

Mr. SULLIVAN: I assure the honour­ Mr. Blake: I read that the federation able member for Barron River that members president, Mr. Ridd, said that the negotiations of my committee have shown very keen and the eventual agreement had been con­ interest in this Bill in general discussions and ducted in very affable terms and that it was at the joint-party meeting when the Bill was a good compromise all round. finally approved. I make that point clear. I will reply in more detail at the second­ Mr. SULLIVAN: That would be so. A reading stage to some of the points made by person can do things affably but still argue the honourable members for Isis and Too­ very firmly. I am fair enough to admit woomba South. that the fedemtion has a responsibility to the growers and that the Minister and his The honourable member for Isis said it departmental officers have a responsibility to was rather significant that the passage of the Government and the Treasury. Negotia­ this legislation was delayed to coincide with tions have been a bit protracted. However, two State elections. I can give him an the scheme has worked out and it is accept­ assurance that this is not being introduced able. For that reason I am happy Vhat the now just because there happens to be an Queensland legislation will be passed. election on 7 December. It would have been introduced before 7 December even if the Mouion (MP. Sullivan) agreed to. election was being held in May next year. It had to be introduced so that wheat farmers Resolution reported. could be paid and, being a wheat farmer, I am very keen to be paid. FIRST READING Mr. Blake: Th[s is enabling legislation. I Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. was talking about obstn1ction tactics. Sullivan, read a first time. Mr. SULLIVAN: There was no obstruction by Governments. Both honourable members FISHERIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL indicated that discussions had to take place INITIATION w[th the Wheat Growers Federation. The stabilisation scheme went back to the FedeDal Hon. V. B. SULLIV AN (Condamine­ Mini,;ter two or three times because the Minister for Primary Industries), by leave, federation was far from satisfied with it. without notice: I move- Governments did not play politics in this "That the House will, at its present matter. sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of Mr. P. Wood: Not this Government, any­ the Whole to consider introducing a Bill way. to amend the Fisheries Acts, 1957 to 1962 in certain particulars." Mr. SULUVAN: No, and that applies also to New South Wales and Western .AJustral[a. Motion agreed to. The Wheat Growers Federation was not satisfied with what was being offered. How­ INITIATION IN COMMITTEE ever, the stabilisation scheme has been (Mr. Bird, Burdekin, in the chair) accepted. The growers did not get everything. I do not suppose anybody gets Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ everything he wants in life. It is a com­ Minister for Primary Industries) (8.47 p.m.): promise and it has been accepted. I move- The honourable member for Toowoomba "That a Bill be introduced to amend South said that under the previous legislation the Fisheries Acts, 1957 to 1962 in certain the Government had power to direct the particulars." Australian Wheat Board to make sales. This is tme, but that power was not used. How­ The Fisheries Act of 1957 makes no pro­ ever, the present Federal Government did vision for the control and regulation of fish­ use it, and this was one of the argu· processing in Queensland. This is a segment ments of the federation. It believed that of the fishing industry which did not exist the matter should be cleared up and I am at that time. sure the honourable member would agree Fishing industry development can be that wheat farmers should not be expected regulated through the control of boats and to stand any losses in rhe sale of wheat to fishing operations, and through the control foreign countPies, and in the financing of the of the land and processing of fish. Both sale. methods are required if the best level of Mr. P. Wood: I support the amending exploitation of the fish resources of Queens­ legislation. land is to be assured. Mr. SULLIVAN: I appreciate that. When The growth of the northern prawn fishery the Federal Government directed the Austra­ from almost nothing to a $10,000,000 per lian Wheat Board, it should have accepted year fishery in less than a decade is impres­ the responsibility for any losses. However, sive. The advice of the fisheries officers and it has been argued and agreed upon and all of the C.S.I.R.O. scientists is that even parties at the moment see eye to eye, as it oreater expansion of the northern fisheries is were. ~ertain following further exploration. Fisheries Act [29 OcTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill 1725

A major part of the northern prawn­ The Bill defines the term "processing of fish trawling fleet and associated industry is based for sale", and specifically excludes retail at Karumba in the Gulf of Carpentaria. premises and fishing vessels which process Karumba lacks the basic infrastructure only their own catches. needed to support an industry, and the cost For the purposes of this Bill the term of providing this infrastructure is now likely "processing" includes "transporting" in order to exceed $8,000,000. The investment of a to avoid the creation of a loophole which sum of this magnitude can be justified only if would defeat the objective of the Bill and there is reasonable assurance that the north­ of the corresponding Commonwealth legisla­ ern prawn fishery will continue to grow in tion. the future. Provision is made under which procedures Prawning tends to attract investment from for obtaining licences, qualifications for per­ persons not familiar with this industry, since sons applying for licences, and conditions the catching costs are comparatively low and to which licences shall be subject may be the final product commands a high price. prescribed by regulation. The regulations This built-in tendency towards economic may provide for control of the processing over-capitalisation at each stage of develop­ of certain prescribed species of fish. ment, together with substantial seasonal To facilitate the principal provision of catch fluctuations, make it essential that the the Bill two definitions are expanded. The rate of development by the fishery is kept term "flsh" is defined so as to include a under control. part of the fish, and the term "vehicle" Commonwealth fisheries authorities are in is defined to include any aircraft, caravan full agreement with the fisheries officers of or trailer. this State in regard to the need to provide Attention is drawn 'to section 94 of the for the proper management of the prawn princioal Act in which the court is given resources. I am convinced that management the power to order to be forfeited to the through the imposition of licensing controls Crown any vessel, fish or other apparatus upon prawn-processing facilities in the north used in connection with any offence com­ must be imposed as quickly as possible if mitted under 'the Act. this rapidly growing industry is to be stabilised, particularly if heavy expenditure I commend the motion to the Committee. is to be incurred in the provision of road Mr. BLAKE (Isis) (8.53 p.m.): On the services and water and electricity supplies. strength of the Minister's introductory The Commonwealth Government has agreed remarks the Opposition certainly has no to meet a substantial part of the cost of objection to offer to the introduction of developing Karumba into a prawning base, the Bill. The Minister and I are often provided that Queensland fisheries legislation critical of each other, but the only criticism is amended to allow for the licensing of pro­ I have to offer at this stage, on the evidence cessing establishments and also provided that now before me, is that this move should a management regime for the fishery is agreed have been made sooner. between the two governments. I have asked questions in the House of This Bill has been prepared in order to either the present Minister or his predecessor orovide for the good order and management about the control and establishment of of the northern prawn fishery pending processing facilities at Karumba. At the time further legislation which will be proposed very heavy catches were being made, but next year. The Bill is a stopgap designed the prawns could not be processed and they to ensure that this important industry can were dumped. As the prawns would probably be adequately controlled. be consumed by other marine life that would eventually be harvested, I realise that The Bill provides a sufficient degree of dumping is not a complete waste. However, control over fish-processing to satisfy the it must be admitted that uncontrolled har­ Commonwealth Government that the fishery vesting and dumping is a retrograde develop­ ;;an now be managed appropriately, as a ment that must be stopped. At the time result of which funds for Karumba develop­ the Minister said that the provision of ment should become available from Canberra. facilities was beyond the scope of the legisla­ tion and the resources of the State Gov­ I am aware that the Fisheries Act in ernment and that it was hoped that the its present form has many deficiencies, and Commo~wealth Government-a different one that this Bill deals only with one of them. at that time-would come to the party. It is my intention to have prepared a In the Minister's introductory remarks today, complete new Fisheries Bill for submission it would seem that that stage has been to this Parliament in 1975, which will take reached, and it is a very desirable stage. account of all aspects of the protection and management of our fish resources. There is no gainsaying what the Minister has said. Fishing industry development This Bill contains one main provision. This through the control of boats, fishing opera­ provision will require that any person pro­ tions and the landing and processing of cessing fish for sale must hold a processor's fish is possible. There is no question about licence. A penalty is provided to enforce that. If we control the licensing of fishing this provision. boats or fishing operations and the landing 56 1726 Fisheries Act [29 OcTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill and processing, any fisherman working out­ Quite recently I have been approached fm side the ambit of those provisions would support, particularly in terms of processing not have a feather to fly with, or should the catch because, without going too deeply I say a scale to swim with. He would into international laws and the various rules certainly be left high and dry. and regulations applying to international waters, we have what might be called I have heard a complaint from Queens­ "piracy" on the prawning grounds in land fishermen. I leave it to the Minister the Gulf. I believe quite realistically and honourable gentlemen to decide what that at the present time, muscle is veracity there is in their claim. They say the power up there. The size of the that we are licensing New South Wales operators, the size of their operation andl fishermen to fish in Queensland waters, even the size of their craft largely determine: in Moreton Bay. They have sufficient faci­ whether they ride roughshod over the other lities to land and market their catch but people in the area. in a practical sense Queensland fishermen are virtually prohibited from fishing in New The exploitation is greater if the facilities South Wales waters because of the lack of there for foreign boats or for those feeding outlets and avenues in New South Wales for foreign markets are far superior to those: landing and marketing their fish. that the Queensland fisherman, by and large, has at his disposal. Queenslanders are mis­ That claim has been made by quite a sing out to a very large extent to people number of people. Unfortunately, I have who it might be said have equal rights. not been able to move into these areas Perhaps they have, but with the lack of and follow through the whole catching and controls at the present time they are getting marketing operation to see whether New far in excess of equal rights. South Wales fishermen are advantaged by Queensland laws or whether our fishermen Over the past decade the prawning industr~ are handicapped only through lack of deve­ has developed into a $10,000,000 industry, lopment of New South Wales facilities. I and the C.S.I.R.O. has predicted that there: repeat, however, that this claim has been is room for even greater development. The made to me frequently. development that is envisaged does not, how­ ever, allow for exploitation to the extent Both methods of control are needed if that it has occurred up to date. The utilisa· the best level-to use the Minister's word­ tion of the prawning grounds must be of exploitation of fishing resources in carried out on a sensible and sound basis, Queensland is to be assured. I am not and co-operation at Commonwealth and playing half-smart when I say that I do not State levels is called for. like the word "exploitation". The Minister is possibly not giving it the connotation I do not want to labour the point-nor as T see it, but I like to think that our am I being sarcastic-but it is refreshing fishing resources are not for exploitation to see the introduction on the one nigh1 but for utilisation. I hope that the word of two Bills that highlight Commonwealth· has not the connotation that is often given State co-operation and the benefits that can to it. flow from it to both the State and the I should like to think that we would nation as a whole. I request-perhaps ] control fishing in the terms of proper utili­ should say "beseech"-the Government to sation, not exploitation, because up to date adopt a similar attitude towards other there definitely has been exploitation in measures that are not as parochial as some the Gulf of Carpentaria. I think it would Government members allege, only for the be the worst example of fisheries exploitation sake of gaining political advantage. From that we have ever seen in Australia. I such a changed outlook the State and the may be wrong. Back in the days of pearl nation would derive tremendons benefit. fishing there may have been excessive I shall defer any further comment until exploitation, but in my knowledge of the the Opposition has had an opportunity to fishing industry-and it is quite extensive examine the contents of the Bill. It may because I did engage in prawn-trawling pro­ be that we will have some criticism to fessionally-there has been terrific exploita­ offer on it. In the meantime, my only tion up there. critical comment is that it is a pity thi~ The Minister's introductory statement measure was not introduced earlier. Never­ contains some very valid remarks. The theless I am pleased to see it before the exploitation has been largely the result of Committee now, and on the strength of the overdevelopment of catching and under­ Minister's comments we fully support it. development of processing. That is the temptation, with the comparatively low Mr. AHERN (Landsborough) (9.3 p.m.): capital investment needed to get into I welcome the introduction of this measure, the catching side of the prawning industry. which, as the Minister has said, allows the The desire is to have sufficient processing, Government to license processors throughout transporting or outlet facilities to cope with Queensland. I must point out to the honour­ the catch when one happens to strike it able member for Isis that its provisions apply rich. That is the situation that has been not solely to the Gulf of Carpentaria but allowed to develop in the Gulf. to the State as a whole. Fisheries Act [29 OcTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill 1727

Over recent years a tremendous amount of problem. In this area of conflict we are capital has been invested in the Queensland giving the Government authority to license fishing industry, seemingly without sufficient processors within declared board districts, planning. Because this measure will lead whereas under another Act we say that all to better long-term management of our fish in these areas shall be delivered to an fishery resources, it is to be welcomed. office of the board. I hope this conflict will In the past there have been instances of be resolved when the Minister gives these lack of planning in the industry. For matters further consideration in the New example, in the port of Mooloolaba the Year. Department of Harbours and Marine A number of other matters in the Act need managed and controlled the development of attention. If ever an Act is overdue for fishing facilities and arrived at a decision overhaul, it is the Fisheries Act. The to offer a certain site to the Fish Board for Minister foreshadowed that in 1975 he will development. The offer was taken up and present us with long-awaited amendments to considerable capital was invested in the site. the Act. I look forward hopefully to his The department then considered it appro­ introducing a number of amendments that are priate to call tenders for the development eagerly awaited by the fishing industry of other sites for processing operations, and generally. at one stage a company known as Wide Mr. BALDWIN (Redlands) (9.9 p.m.): I Seas submitted a tender involving the sum will not keep the Committee long. I enter of $750,000. It is fair to say that this the debate simply because of the problems planning was not related to the long-term as I know them in the fishermen's organisa­ management of the fisheries resources in tions in the Redlands eleotorate, some of the area. which are related to the Bill introduced by lt is quite easy to say that, but, until the Minister at such short notice. this particular point in time, we have not I wish I had had more time to relate had the scientific information on which to what I will say more closely to some of the base reasonable decisions on management of problems. I hope that, from his superior fishery resources. Now that the C.S.I.R.O. position of being able to introduce the B!ill and our own State Department have been without notice, the Minister will beaJ1 with doing significant work in this area, there is me. I tru&t also that he has not given warn­ good ground on whioh to base a decision. ing of it to other Government members. The decision to ensure greater scientific planning in the allocation of rights to The honourable member who has just develop fish-processing facilities is a good resumed his seat has touched upon one or one. two of the porints that I had intended raising. There is an area of conflict in our legisla­ These are very pertinent to the problems con­ tion. Under the Fisheries Act we are giving fronting the fishermen of Moreton Bay, and the Government authority to license pro­ Redland Bay in particular. The Minister cessors. The Government may decide to knows, as would his predecessor in that port­ license a certain type of facility, call tenders folio, that one of rhe first areas of con­ for it or give it to the Fish Board or someone flict that I was introduced to as a member, else, but under the Fish Supply Management and which I raised by questions in the House Act, where districts are declared, there can and written representations, concerned the be no real competition. Unless a permit of harvesting of the seas and the fishing industry exemption applies, all fish must be delivered in the south-east region-Moreton Bay, Red­ to an office of the board. We must try to sort land Bay and round the islands in particular. out the difficulty. Processors operate on our I join with the honourable member for coastline where declared districts exist. Yet Landsborough in voicing my disappointment the law says that all fish caught in an area that there has been no overhaul of the various shall be delivered to an office of the board Acts relating to fisheries. I am in my sixth for inspection. Processors are taking advan­ year as a parliamentary representative, with tage of section 92 of the Constitution in a deep interest in the fishing industry, which consigning fish interstate. In the inte,rests of pwvides high-protein food for all our people, our fishing industry this situation cannot be and I am dismayed that no legisLative pro­ permitted to continue. gress has been made in this field. Under section 92 of the Constitution pro­ I agree with our shadow Minister (~r. cessors transport fish to the Gold Coast Blake) that there are some very good pnn­ and bring it back to my area. At present ciples contained tin this legislation. While the Mooloolaba fishermen's co-operative is not denigrating any of its beneficial aspects, trying to do the same thing. It is con­ I draw the inference from the contributions signing fish interstate. The areas directly of both the honourable member fm Isis and concerned ought to have the benefit the honourable member for Landsborough of the employment opportunities involved. that matters germane to this subject will not The commercial fishermen's organisation be overcome by 'a Bill as limited as this. which was set up under a Statute of For a long time I have had complaints­ Parliament, have been unwilling to recom­ and I am sure that officers in the Minister's mend something that they believe would department have had them, too-about the weaken the authority of the Queensland Fish pirating of Moreton Bay, just to take a Board. The industry must grapple with the specific area. Even if the Minister has not 1728 Fisheries Act [29 OCTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill the proof, reports of piracy are so frequent considerably disadvantaged by the fantastic that we must realise that the Queensland capital input and equipment sophistication of fishing industry is affected by fishermen the two sources at which I am levelling mos! from interstate as well as from foreign of my criticism. countries. Reports of Japanese fishing vessels In my opinion the protection of fishermen coming in wtith their high-powered craft in in the Moreton Bay prawning industry ha~ the early hours of the morning, foraging been neglected. I am aware of the Minister's within the fields of our own harvesters, are remarks about the indirect controls that the far too frequent, the evidence that they department and Government are able to exert accidentally leave behind is so unmistakable over production and processing of fish, par­ and the frequent observations of our own ticularly prawns. These have been a source fishermen (some of whom I have known for of concern to fishermen in the Redland Bay years and years) are so acceptable that I and Moreton Bay areas. find it hard to believe that thtis is not so. The Minister has received complaints Honourable members may ask themselves about the allowable horsepower of fishing why I am introducing the matter of inter­ vessels. They seem to me to come under state and foreign intrusion into a debate of the same horsepower rating as speedboats this nature. I should like the Committee to used by two or three speed-happy cranks note that I am not speaking of what has who are going nowhere but up and down been told me by South-east Queensland the coast and who do not have to fight off­ fishermen alone. I have visited the Mooloo­ shore currents, ebbing tides or off-shore laba, Gladstone, Mackay, Townsville and breezes with 2 or 3 tons of fish aboard, Cairns Fish Boards. as these boats do. The result of that, of The essence of the story is very much the course, is long drags for loaded craft in­ same in all of those places. Therefore I do shore and a heavy and costly burden of ice not doubt it, even though I have not been that must be carried if the catch is not swimming among the intruders. I have done to go bad between the time of being hauled something else. I have seen the labels on aboard and delivery at the market. In cans of imported fish. So have many other addition, of course, there are other very fishermen. We have examined the contents unenviable hindrances and delays caused by of the cans. It is difficult to disbelieve that insufficient landing and handling space and some of the fish entering Australia in foreign so on. cans, under different names and with different I can appreciate the Minister's proposal flavours, is basically fish pirated from that, at the very least, there should be these Queensland waters when that is the claim of controls on the fishing industry in the South­ these fishermen, who, like their fathers and east of the State, and I could mention a grandfathers, have spent a lifetime in the number of other desirable controls. All of fishing industry. us who are consumers of this protein-rich Mr. R. Jones: Tuna. food-the harvest of the sea-are very interested in what the enactment and imple­ Mr. BALDWIN: Tuna would be one of mentation of the Bill and the regulation~ them because of the nature of its flavour made under it will mean to us. If it means and flesh. I't lends itself admirably to dress­ that, because of the investment in Karumba ing and flavouring. and the licensing of processors, the Queens­ I ask whether the proposed legislation land fishing industry is to be protected, its should not contain the element of entry of efficiency upgraded and the avenues of sup­ for,eign fishing companies into the prawning ply to consumers improved and, consequently, industry in the Gulf of Carpentaria by reason the cost reduced and consumption increased., of the control of processing. I have been with benefit to both the industry and the accused in this Chamber many times of consumer, we can do nothing but welcome crying stinking fish, to use an apt saying. the proposed Bill. But on the letter of the wording given by the Minister, 1 am afraid Mr. Blake: It is not true though, is it, all I can see in it is more control, a greater that you are crying stinking fish? You are army of riders on the industry-and, God being constructive. knows, the fishing industry has enough Mr. BALDWIN: I hope I am being con­ already!-and a greater opportunity for an structive. I am trying to be. in-between group to control production and consumption. Therefore, I await with intense I want the Minister and rthe Government interest the introduction of the Bill, and I to know that Opposition members are awake will examine it very closely in the light of to some of the possibilities. My conjectures what has been submitted by honourable are based on what has occurred in the Gulf members who have already taken part in prawning industry so far. The tales of off­ the debate, and probably also in the light shore fights, pirating of grounds and damaging of what will be said by other honourable of equipment and craft are too frequent to members who follow me in the debate. be ignored. Perhaps without the establish­ ment of processing and control of processing, Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (9.24 p.m.): and, without the inclusion of proper safe­ Like the shadow Minister and other mem­ guards for all kinds of regulations (even to bers of the Opposition, I welcome any the brink of challenging section 92), the legislation that will improve the fi~hing. indus~ Queensland fishing industry could find itself try in this State. However, havmg listened Fisheries Act [29 OCTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill 1729 to what has been said so far, including out of the area. This has a duel effect. what the Minister said in his introductory It starves the local area of fish supplies speech, I am unsure just how far the pro­ and increases costs generally. Mr. Bird, you visions of the legislation will go. I am would be amazed at the prices we have also unsure about what its possible effect to pay for seafoods in Y eppoon, one of will be on the fishing industry generally and the glorious areas of the State where one the processing industry specifically. The would expect to be able to purchase readily Minister said it was aimed at the good order all sorts of seafoods. The present position and management of the prawn-fishing is ridiculous in view of the excellent seafood industry, and he mentioned particularly the harvest in the area. Will the foreshadowed Gulf of Carpentaria. The first question that Bill overcome that problem? Will it a1ises is: does this apply to other areas of encourage the processing groups in the State the State, or are we being somewhat sec­ to process seafoods and sell them on the tional? The Minister said that he intended local market? I know I am being a little to bring in a new fishing Bill in 1975. He parochial but such a Bill would boost the may not have the opportunity, of course. fishing industry in Central Queensland. It Mr. SuUivan: You might not be here to would increase employment, and surely that is desirable. It would increase revenue in make a contribution, either. the area, and it would allow for an expansion Mr. WRIGHT: Perhaps so; time will tell. of the present processing operations to cater The fact that the Minister suggested that for the local market. there is need for a new Bill in 1975 makes Obviously the Bill is more far-reaching me wonder what will be achieved under the than just to provide for processing licences. Bill now proposed. He said that the main The Minister did say that he intends to provision was that processors will have to achieve good order and management in the hold a processor's licence. I raise a specific fishing industry. He then referred specifically matter in the Central Queensland region to the prawn fishing industry. I ask the which has already been touched upon lightly Minister to explain whether Markwell Fish­ by the honourable member for Landsborough eries will be able to process their products as it affects his region. Scallops are processed locally and sell them on the local market. at Y eppoon by Markwell Fisheries. Who will be able to get the processing Apparently the product cannot be sold in licences the Minister referred to? What will t;:e local district. I am told that the scallops such a licence allow the processor to do? are sent down to New South Wales and Again I ask the Minister to comment specific­ then brought back over the border. If that ally on the effect it will have on Markwell were not done, the product would have Fisheries. to be put through the local fish board. Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (9.29 p.m.): Markwells do not intend to do this, so they I wish to make a brief contribution to send the scallops over the border, and this the debate on this very important measure. allows them to claim the protection of Naturally I was very interested in the Min­ section 92 of the Commonwealth Consitution. ister's remark that the Bill was a piece Mr. Blake·: Do they have to be unloaded, of legislative machinery to regulate the or do they just go interstate and come licensing of fish processors throughout the back? State and for the good order and management of the fishing industry. Mr. WRIGHT: I am not sure of that, Queensland is very richly endowed with but I do know that it is unnecessary handling marine products-probably too much so in because they have to go the full distance some respects. Right from the time of our from Yeppoon, past Brisbane, into New South early history it has been regrettable just Wales and back again. We buy the scallops how little research into this field has been that are harvested and processed in our attempted and how little money has been area, but only after they have been sent appropriated by the Government to employ to New South Wales and returned as a highly qualified people on research to assist New South Wales product. There is something this somewhat ailing industry to provide a radically wrong in that. I would hope that product of world-standard quality. Unfor­ any legislation we bring down will overcome tunately, throughout the length and breadth the anomaly. Unnecessary handling and trans­ of this State at the present time we find port create increased costs which have to food vans pulling up outside catering estab­ be passed on to the consumer because the lishments such as restaurants and hotels processor certainly does not intend to carry and peddling untold types of packaged fish. them. Will the legislation now being put This is part and parcel of the change to forward allow Markwells to process that supermarketing. Some of this fish is very product and then sell it direct on the local tasty and good but, as one who has lived market? next to the Barrier Reef throughout his The Minister said he was planning a life and who has tasted the best reef and new Fisheries Bill, and he tended to emphasise estuarine fish, I do not find it very desirable the need for it. What problems will we at all. Various packets of imported fish­ overcome by it? Catches from Central fingers are abhorrent to me and would cer­ Queensland waters are being purchased before tainly turn me off eating fish altogether if they hit the beach, and are quickly shipped constantly put before me. 1730 Fisheries Act [29 OcTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill

I note the Minister's remark that this Another waste product, namely, that part legislation is aimed specifically at Karumba remaining after prawns are shelled, could, I and the Gulf prawning industry. Of course, am sure, be scientifically processed into a licensing and good management are very protein meal. Similarly, fish offal could be necessary. We have all seen the fluctuating utilised as fertiliser. As I have said, a large fortunes of people who have gone to that proportion of each fish that is caught is area and involved themselves in prawning thrown back into the sea, and I am sure operations. Some of them have made good that one day we will regret this needless money at times whilst at other times they waste. I am sure all honourable members have almost faced bankruptcy. would enjoy a tasty fish soup made from the When speaking of the fishing industry in parts of the fish that are usually discarded. this State one naturally refers to fishing in I hope that this legislation will be the first Barrier Reef waters. Fishing on the reef step towards full co-operation between the is very pleasant and at times-but for only Commonwealth and States in scientific a very short period of the year-it is very research into the fishing industry. Such lucrative. The reef is a wonderful place to research is urgently needed. For example, fish on if one can get on to it. At most although the rock oyster that is found in times throughout the year it is well-nigh Queensland waters is a delicacy, no large­ impossible to engage in continuous fishing. scale oyster farming has been attempted in One can be sitting in a boat fishing in ideal this State; similarly, although the painted conditions and then, within a matter of crayfish abound in their millions in Barrier seconds, be facing a 30-knot wind. Anyone Reef waters, no-one has devised a method of who wishes to go fishing in such conditions successfully potting them, as is done with the is, of course, not right in the head. South Australian and Western Australian Unfortunately, too, in the last 20 to 25 green cray. And, other .than an abortive years the number of fishermen operating attempt made in rhe early 1930's, no real from our various coastal towns has dropped move has been made to establish a pilchard very considerably. This is to be regretted. industry near Murray Island, to our north. Unfortunately, there are more lucrative In Central Queensland one of the tastiest occupations in which they can engage and fish known can be caught. I refer, of course, throughout the length and breadth of Aus­ to the winter salmon, which has a very high tralia the fishing industry has not enjoyed recovery rate. In spite of that, however, no the same healthy advertising and marketing real attempt has been made to establish techniques as have been employed in the salmon hatcheries. fruit industry. Ever since I was a child we It is all very well to belly-ache about have seen the familiar slogan "Eat more pollution and the threat to our environment fruit". Fish is a wonderful diet-it is -as we do sometimes quite justifiably-but necessary for the maintenance of good we must adopt a realistic approach and health-but one never hears or sees, "Eat involve ourselves in conservation in the true more fish". I regretted it when the authori­ sense of the word, namely, in preservation ties in Rome, some time ago, relaxed the and utilisation. I see this Bill as a step in laws of abstinence. They were very judicious that direction. I sincerely hope that the laws and of great dietetic value. Minister, or his successor, will continue to We see today an enormous increase in extend every consideration to this fine world population with a corresponding industry. decrease in the world's food supply. It is Earlier >tonight, Opposition members spoke absolutely scandalous, not only in this about tuna and how Asiatic seamen come to country but in many countries of the world our shores, catch them and send them back where fish abound, to see the waste that to us in cans. Before the war a fisherman of takes place in the processing of fish. I Mackay, who has now retired, cam~ in con­ suppose if one caught a 14-lb. red emperor tact with Japanese boats that were mterested a very large proportion of it would be thrown principally in tuna fishing. On being inv~ted back into the sea. Having had a Scandina­ aboard the Japanese boat he was told that vian father and the advice and friendship they were not interested in catching over many years of Captain Chris Poulsen, mackerel, but they showed him a good who was proprietor of Heron Island, I know mackerel ground. He visited the ground how to eat these fish. The first part of reef month after month and made wonderful fish that I like cooked and that I attack with catches. It is stupid to think that people relish is the head. It is the sweetest and travel thousands of miles to our shores and juiciest part of the fish, and, as many of accumulate profound, deep knowledge that my Scandinavian forebears would have our own people do not have. testified, it is the most nutritious. The parts Like my shadow Minister I welcome this of the fish that are wasted-the tails, fins and progressive legislation and hope that in the heads-could be converted into a protein spirit of co-operation it will signal success meal and supplied to a protein-hungry world. to this industry in the years ahead. It would make an ideal additive to the staple diet of, for example, the Asian races, Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ who rely for their nutrition on rice. Such Minister for Primary Industries) (9.41 p.m.), a protein supplement would save many in reply: I thank honourable members on people from starvation. both sides of the Chamber for accepting the Contractors' Trust (29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill 1731 amending provisions included in the Bill. We A contractor will not be authorised to believe them to be necessary. Tonight I shall withdraw money for progress payments to not deal specifically with the matters raised himself unless- but I will do so on the second reading. (a) In the case of a first progress pay­ Motion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. ment, he has commenced to perform the Resolution reported. contract; (b) In the case of subsequent payments, FIRST READING he has made further progress in the per­ Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. formance of the contract since the making Sullivan, read a first time. of the last preceding such payment; and (c) In the case of any progress payment, the payment is fair and reasonable having CONTRACTORS' TRUST regard to-- ACCOUNTS BILL (i) The progress made in the per­ SECOND READING formance of the contract; and (ii) The amount of previous progress Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for payments made in connection with the Justice) (9.43 p.m.): I move- contract. "That the Bill be now read a second It is considered this Bill will give home­ 1ime." owners and home buyers some protection The basic principle in this Bill is that money in relation to money paid by them to con­ paid to a contractor by a home-owner or tractors for the construction or alteration home-buyer for a particular purpose before of their dwelling-houses. he has commenced to perform the contract should be paid into a trust account and used Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (9.47 p.m.): only in conneotion with the purpose for This measure has caused considerable dis­ which it was paid. cussion and debate in the community. It Similar legislation to what is proposed by is apparent that various groups of con­ this Bill was contained in section 3E of the tractors in the State are in conflict on its Trust Account Acts, 1923 to 1959, which merits. Since the Bill was introduced some was repealed by the Trust Accounts Act weeks ago I have had a number of letters 1973. It was considered to be more desir­ arguing for and against the various provisions. able and practicable not to include con­ tractors' trust accounts in an Act dealing Some have lauded its introduction as a with trust accounts of solicitors and means of tidying up the industry. They accountants. believe it will put an end to the shyster contractor who accepts deposits or down pay­ It is proposed that this Bill apply to the ments for jobs, which in the main are construction, repair, extension, alteration, small contracts, and then disappear before renovation or painting of a dwelling-house performing any part of that contract. They or other fixed improvement on the land on also think that it will put an end to the which the dwelling-house is situated. Con­ contractor who starts a job, takes some part tractors will be required by this Bill to payment, and never bothers to finish the establish trust accounts and to pay forth­ work. The customer is subsequently put with into those trust accounts money to extreme cost to have the job finished. received by them before they have com­ Those people contend, too, that it will menced to perform any contract being the improve the public image of contractors whole or part of the contract price for that generally, as it will be known in the com­ contract. munity that the contractors must have a Within one month after the date of com­ trust account and that their moneys will mencement of the Bill, contractors will be be safe. They will know that the with­ required to pay into their trust accounts drawal from these accounts will be tightly so much of money received by them prior controlled. In fact, they will be open to to that date and before they have com­ departmental inspection. menced to perform any contract being the whole or part of the contract price of that Personally, I think these arguments are contract as has not been duly applied for valid. One might say they would seem to the purposes for which it has been paid. be difficult to refute. Furthermore, the supporters of the measure say that it will To enable effective enforcement of the give additional protection to the contractors' Bill, power will be given to appoint inspectors creditors, which is a very valid point. The who may at any time inspect, examine or money deposited cannot be used for any audit trust accounts established by purpose not related to the work covered contractors. by the contract towards which the money A contractor will be authorised to with­ has been paid. So, if a fellow has sold draw money from his trust account for work cement to a contractor for a certain job, done or materials supplied in connection he will be paid for it. He knows that the with the performance of a contract and for money is there and that the contractor can­ making progress payments to himself. not use it for anything else. 1732 Contractors' Trust [29 OcTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill

Under this Act contractors are required Mr. Lee: That would be a fair lump of a to pay all moneys received by them into house. trust accounts. As honourable members have no doubt read, the powers of inspectors Mr. WRIGHT: Does it have to be a appointed by the Governor in Council are dwelling-house? I imagined it could be units substantial. The Minister has just pointed or something like that. that out. There are stringent restrictions Mr. Knox: Only a dwelling-house. on withdrawals from these accounts. A contractor is unable to withdraw money Mr. WRIGHT: Then $200,000 is a great except for making payments to those who exaggeration. I will restate it and say from have worked on that project, for materials $20 to $60,000. used or, finally, for progress payments to Judging by the cases cited by Opposition himself. Money may not be withdrawn to members, in which bogus contractors have pay other debts of that contractor, nor may undertaken contracts such as the painting of it be used to promote a business by financing a roof for $80 or $90, and never returned to additional projects, which apparently is a do the job, i't would appear ,to Opposition well-known practice. members that it would be unwise to pre­ There is another side to the story. The scribe a minimum amount. It is advisable to opponents of the legislation see these so­ go along with what the Minister has said called protections as disadvantages. Alter­ and specify the total coverage. natively they say that the controls on with­ But the real question that arises is whether drawals from trust accounts can and will be or not this Act will prevent that type of harmful to the smaller contractor who is contractor from taking down an unsuspect­ attempting to expand his business. They ing house-owner or, in many cases, a pen­ contend that because of the material and sioner. Will the fact that money has 1to be special labour shortages it is not always put into tmst accounts stop the shyster from possible to complete a job, and that the going around, getting deposits, saying that vast majority of contractors are involved in he will come back and finish the job later a number of contracts at any one time. and then never returning? I do not honestly They say it is unfair that they should believe that it will. Only time will tell. And be restricted in using the money they have only time will tell whether or not the troubles for any purpose they desire. They feel envisaged by the opponents of this legisla­ it is unfair that they should use it only tion will also emerge. to pay for the material or work being done The Opposition has considered both argu­ under one contract. They say they should ments and believes that the legislation should have the right to use that money to expand be introduced as the Minister intends. their businesses as they so desire. Opposition members also believe that its They contend that the restrictions on with­ operation and effectiveness should be drawals will therefore have an unnecessary reviewed in six months' time. We therefore stifling effect on the industry. They further have no intention of opposing this measure. state that the administration of the required Over the nex't six months we will watch its trust accounts will create additional costs to implementation and the results very care­ the smaller contractors and that ,those costs fully. In line with the attitude we have will have to be passed on to the consumer. adopted, I ask the Minister to give the That is a fairly valid point. If the adminis­ Assembly an undertaking that he will review tration is costly, it will be the consumer who this legislMion at the expiration of the period pays. I have suggested. It has been suggested further that the Bill Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (9.54 should not apply 1to all contracts as it does p.m.): I view this legislation with a certain at the moment and, instead, should be in amount of concern. Some years ago the line with the $500 minimum used in the Contractors' and Workmen's Lien Act was registration of builders. I have considered repealed. this point carefully in line with the inter­ pretation clause. The definition of "contraot", Mr. Hanson interjected. which the Minister read out, is extremely wide and includes any oral or written agree­ Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: I am not interested ment for- in who repealed it. "(i) the construction, repair, extension, Since then very little has been done to alteration, renovation or painting of a cover the contractor or the person who dwelling-house or other fixed improve­ arranges to have work done on a house. I ment of any kind on land." see no mention in the Bill of any limit, small or large. This raises the point that it I notice that the Minister intends to move could quite easily reach $200,000. This is an amendment to include any extension of the Contractors' Tms't Accounts Bill. To me a courtyard or curtilage of a dwelling­ that could involve the multi-storey T.A.B. house. It is fairly wide. No mention is made building or additions to my toilet. of the value of the contract in question, so it seems that this provision applies to a con­ One thing that concerns me is that the tract, oral or written, whether it be for $20 powers of the inspectors almost make or $200,000. Queensland a police State. I belong to a Contractors' Trust [29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill 1733 political party that has always been opposed The honourable member for Rockhampton to dictatorial or unilateral control. If one said that the question had been raised with reads the provisions in the Bill relating to him of the unfairness of contractors not the powers of inspectors, one sees that they being able to use money that they hold. read almost like directions given by Hitler. Of course, as the honourable member pointed Subclause (3) (a) says- out, it is not the contractors' money. Because "Before an inspector enters any part of of the absence of Act provisions since the premises which part is being used exclu­ repeal of the earlier Act a couple of years sively as a dwelling-house he shall, save ago, contractors have not been obliged to where he has the permission of the use trust accounts. From an ethical point occupier of that part to his entry, obtain of view, of course, they should have been from a justice a warrant to enter." using trust accounts. In my opinion, the whole section amounts The fact is that here we are not really to an invasion of privacy. saying that trust accounts shall be set up. We intend to have supervision of trust Mr. Wrigbt: You are debating the clause. accounts, which, of course, was the case up You are not allowed to do that on the second till 1971 or 1972, when the other Act was reading. repealed. Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: I am debating a Mr. Lee: It is the customer's money, not very important legal principle, and the second the builder's money, isn't it? reading is the stage at which we debate the general principles of the Bill. If the hon­ Mr. KNOX: That is correct. The honour­ ourable member wishes to overlook a general able member for Rockhampton did not say principle of justice and an invasion of that. He said that it had been put to him privacy, I think there must be something that builders or contractors need to use wrong with him. the money that they hold but do not own. The fact is that the provision is in the The honourable member was correct Bill, and I think it should be considered. I when he said that the Bill will not stop the agree completely-for the first time, I must dishonest contractor. The person who puts admit-with the honourable member who has the money into the account can take it out. just resumed his seat that the Bill should It is the purpose for which it is taken out be reviewed in six months, because I can that determines whether or not that is lawful. see a considerable amount of trouble arising l11ere are plenty of dishonest people who from its operations. manipulate trust accounts. The mere exist­ Mr. W. D. Hewitt: We did this with the ence of a trust account does not mean that Builders' Registration Act. dishonesty is prevented. But because the supervision of trust accounts is provided for Dr. SCOIT-YOUNG: Actually, this Bill by the Bill, it will be possible to track down conflicts with the Builders' Registration Act, dishonesty a little more quickly than would which says that a builder must be registered otherwise be the case, and before other before he can build anything costing more offences are committed. than $500. There is no cross reference in I agree that it probably would be wise to the Bill to the Builders' Registration Act. It review the legislation in six months. goes ahead as if that Act had never been implemented. Mr. Wrlght interjected. A person does not have to be a registered Mr. KNOX: I certainly would review it in builder under this Bill, but his privacy is six months. There is no problem about that. restricted. The Bill gives unspecified power to an inspector. In my opinion, it also gives The honourable member for Townsville unspecified power to a Minister. was under a misunderstanding. The Bill applies only to dwel1ing-houses. He will find Mr. Knox: That is not right. that in the definitions. Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: The Minister is The inspector must have a warrant to given power to exempt, and I think that an enter, and these are normal powers that are Act should be drawn up with more detail given to him. They are powers relating to than this Bill has been drawn. the trust accounts under his supervision, not to lots of other things. These are normal Mr. Frawley: It is all right when we powers given to inspectors by legislation have a Minister like the present Minister. under which inspectors are appointed. Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: Yes, that is so. I Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. agree that the Bill should be reviewed after six months. CoMMIITEE Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, for Justice) (9.58 p.m.), in reply: I shall deal Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) briefly with the matters that have been raised. Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. 1734 Contractors' Trust [29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill

Clause 3-Interpretation- The Minister seems to have covered every­ thing when he talks about the repair, exten­ Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for sion, alteration or renovation of a dwelling Justice) (10.3 p.m.): I move the following house, so why create difficulty by adding amendments- "any other fixed improvement."? It seems "On page 2, lines 6, 10, 17 and 21, after that he has already categorised everything the word 'land' insert the words- that could be included. 'that is the curtilage of a dweHing­ house'." Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for Justice) (10.8 p.m.): That is an opinion Since the introduction of the Bill some con­ I share, but there has been a difference of cern has been expressed that by virtue of the opinion and, to make sure there is no mis­ definition of "contract" the Bill may apply understanding, I agreed to amend the Bill to all building contracts, including contracts along those lines. I felt it was in order in relating to large commercial buildings. As I the first place. explained in my opening remarks on 19 September, that was not intended. The whole As far as subclause (b) is concerned, there Bill relates to dwelling-houses. Apparently will be disputes; there is no doubt about some different interpretation was put on that that. But we are dealing specially with particular part of the clause. As the principal trust accounts, not contracts, and the super­ object of the Bill is to protect deposits paid vision of trust accounts. The genesis of to contractors by home~buyers, it is proposed a trust account is some sort of agreement, to put the matter beyond doubt by amending be it a verbal agreement or something that clause 3 in the various lines I have men­ is alleged to have happened. Whether it be tioned by adding the words "that is the cur­ a contract or not a contract-there could be tilage of a dwelling-house". The amendments lots of argument about that, too--is not will ensure that the Bill relates only to the terribly relevant once it has been established construction, repair, extension, alteration, that money has been handed over, and that renovation or painting of a dwelling-house or a trust account should have been established. other fixed improvement of any kind on land We would be failing in our duty if we that is the curtilage of a dwelling-house. did not cover all the possibilities that could arise and which could generate trust accounts. The CHAIRMAN: Order! As it is pro­ Verbal agreements can lead to trust accounts posed to amend clause 3 by the insertion of being established. That is why it is covered the same words, on four different lines, is it the pleasure of the Committee that the pro­ there for purposes of definition. posed amendments be taken as one? Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (10.9 p.m.): Honourable Members: Hear, hear! Taking the matter a little further, there also seems to be room for a submission in regard Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (10.5 p.m.): to the part of the clause dealing with "con­ noted the Minister's remarks in regard tractor." By definition, the term "contractor" to the term "contract". The word "contract" includes the person who supplies so-and-so as used in this definition includes not only with certain materials "for or in connexion a contract of unenforceable arrangement but with the construction, repair, extension, alter­ by paragraph (b) also includes- ation, renovation or painting of a dwelling "A representation, promise or stipula- house or other fixed improvement on any tion ... made by one person to another ..." kind of land." This could appear to include, for instance, a hardware business that sells I submit that in ordinary everyday language nails, a timber retailer who sells timber, and the word "contract" implies agreement a wholesaler of building materials. It would between two people. A representation, pro­ also probably include the hardware supplier mise or stipulation is unilateral, made by of plumbing materials. This appears to me one person only, and defining the word to be a bit wider than the intention of the "contract" to mean a unilateral undertaking statute. It could be argued that the definition will only lead to considerable confusion. I of "contractor" should exclude a vendor make that submission in regard to the term­ trading in these materials. inology used. Hou. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.7 p.m.): for Justice) (10.10 p.m.): It is absolutely H does seem that we may have some dif­ essential to define the terms used in the Bill. ficulties here. We are talking about rep­ It does not necessarily mean that these resentation from one person whereby one contractors would need to have trust party promises to perform certain services, accounts. It may be that they are not in this instance to extend or repair a house. building dwelling-houses; they may only be The Minister may find some way of over­ suppEers; or they could be both. The term coming that. is a broad one, and is meant to be so for the purposes of this Bill only. We must The main point on which I rise is that the cover all possible circumstances that might Minister said that he wants to remove com­ arise. He is not specifically a contractor pletely any doubt about what is meant by supplying nails. "dwelling house". I wonder if it is neces­ sary to use any words after "dwelling house". Mr. Gunn: He could be both. Contractors' Trust (29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill 1735

Mr. KNOX: As I said, he could be clear that it applies only to money received supplying all sorts of things, and building by a contractor before he has commenced the house as well. to perform the contract. Mr. Lee: He could be a supplier only. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I will nvt warn the honourable member for Port Curtis again Mr. KNOX: That is ~right, but he is still to remain seated and quiet while I am on a contractor. my feet stating the question. Mr. Nemon: He could be a labour-only bloke doing the job, too. Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.15 p.m.): In considering the clause and the amendment Mr. KNOX: He certainly would be a con­ proposed by the Minister, honourable mem­ tractor. Whether he comes within the terms bers will note that the crux is that the of this Bill depends on whether he is building Minister is adding the words, ". . . before houses. If he makes a contract with some­ he has commenced to perform that con­ one to supply something, he is a contractor; tract;". The Minister said that he has had it does not matter whet!her he is a merchant, representations from sections of the industry a builder or a labour-only fellow. How­ that uhis is what is wanted. My first thought ever, this discussion is academic. is that the proposal weakens the intention of the Bill over all. In answer to the honourable member for Port Curt:is-I do not see any inhibiting It is not the Opposition's view that factor here. The definition must be broad some control should be exercised over only for the same reason as the term "contractor" the deposits paid to contractors. We want must be broad. It ensures that all possible to protect creditors of contractors. It was circumstances are covered. We are not believed that money paid to a contractor trying to define "contract" and "contractor" would be used to pay workers, buy materials in any other legislation. and so on. We believe that the money for a job would be virtually set aside and Mr. Hanson: All I hope is that you are used to pay out the contractor's obligations. not making a nice old feast for the lawyers. What can happen now is that the customer or the house-dweller may pay $20 deposit. Mr. KNOX: If we are, we have made a That would be the only sum to go into mistake, and I will repeal the lemislation. the trust account. The contractor could then Amendment (Mr. Knox) agreed to. dig a hole in the ground, which is per­ formance, and pay out $1,000. There is Clause 3, as amended, agreed to. no control over that amount. Clauses 4 to 7, both inclusive, as read, I may be splitting straws, but it seems agreed to. to me that performance starts the moment Clause 8-Duties of contractor with respect something is done by the contractor. We to money received- may be creating problems for ourselves. I do not intend to oppose the amendment. Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister The Opposition has not had a chance to for Justice) {10.12 p.m.): I move the follow­ discuss it in caucus, nor has our Committee ing amendment- had a chance to study it, but I believe "On page 5, omit all words comprising it will weaken the over-all intention. It lines 8, 9 and 10 and substitute the fol.­ means that once the work is begun he can lowing word&- use the money for whatever he likes. He can use it on any other contract or any "(a) shall forthwith pay money (being the other debt that he may have. whole or part of the contract price for any contract) received by him Mr. Knox: That is not so. after the date of commencement of thtis Act and before he has commenced Mr. WRIGHT: The Minister may explain to perform that contract; ' " as we proceed. Thtis amendment, and a consequential amend­ I note that the Minister intends to do ment that I shall move later, arise from exactly the same thing in the later amendment representations made to me by a number he has foreshadowed. I suggest that he of associations in the building industry that might explain whether or not this will con­ have advised me of their complete support flict with clause 9 (2) which reads- for the Bill provided it applies only to "A contractor shall not withdraw money money reccived by contractors prior to any from a general trust account kept by him work being performed. They also advise for the purpose of making a payment ..." me that it would not be practicable for contractors to pay money received by them We are stipulating in one clause that he during the course of a contract into a trust can withdraw money, firstly, to make pay­ account. ment to a person other than himself for work done or material supplied in connection As the purpose of the Bill is to protect with the performance of a contract and. deposits paid by home-buyers and home­ secondly, to make progress payments to him~ owners, it is proposed to amend clause 8 self in connection with the performance of in the manner I have suggested to make it a contract. That is fairly stringent. We are 1736 Contractors' Trust [29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill saying that he can use the money only Mr. BROMLEY (South Brisbane) (10.21 for these purposes. But now we say that p.m.): I cannot completely agree with the once the performance begins he can use Minister. He has probably taken notice of the money for anything. I do not see how the secretary of the Housing Industry Associ­ they can both apply. Either he is allowed ation. I cannot completely agree with what to use the money any time he likes, or he Mr. Phillips says or even with what the must put the deposit money into a trust Minister says. I believe that clauses 8 and account. Clause 9 applies only to the amounts 9 must be connected. Irrespective of the deposited before performance begins or it further amendment that the Minister fore­ applies to the whole of the moneys paid shadowed he would be moving to clause 8, to the contractor for the project. There is in my opinion the Minister has not looked conflict here that must be clarified. at the matter soundly. Members of the Housing Industry Association as well as the Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister contractors will probably say that this will for Justice) (10.18 p.m.): I do not believe cause a tremendous amount of work. I that there is conflict. 'Vhe amendment believe Mr. Phillips would have been well indicates quite the contrary to what the advised to take notice of the Bill as it ~onourable member suggested, that is, that was before these amendments were brought Jt can be used for any payment. It is far forward. from that. It has to be read in the context Many contractors have spoken to me about of the whole clause. it. I have had long discussions with them Clause 9 does not conflict with this. It in which I have pointed out that the Bill merely limits the purposes for which the in its original form would not have created money can be used. Trust moneys are not very much extra work for them, nor would available for paying any other person, or it have put a load on their working capital. for any purpose other than those set out I believe that the Bill should have been in clause 9. The fact that a person pays a left in its original form. I pointed out deposit of $20 and the contractor spends to them that to me the Bill was a sound thousands of dollars obviously means that he one and protected not only the customers must be receiving payments from elsewhere of the contractors but also the contractors ~ecause the trust account has only $20 in themselves. If the contractors obeyed the 1t. No doubt he is entitled to the $20 not provlSlons of the Bill and trusted the because he has started the work but because Minister's control of it-I believe he will !Je has done $20 worth of work. The money be very fair-they would have nothing to m ~he trust account will certainly not be worry about. available for the other purposes mentioned I cannot understand why the Minister by the honourable member if, in fact, they would introduce this amendment. To me are. not related to the particular work for it greatly reduces the safeguards for the which the money has been paid. There is customers. It does not greatly improve the ~o .co~flict. There will merely be the normal situation for the contractor, but it certainly hmltatlons and supervision of the trust reduces protection for the purchaser. moneys. Frankly, I cannot see much advantage in Mr. Wright: Might I have this point clari­ the amendment. Although the honourable fied: what money must be deposited in member for Rockhampton pointed out that the trust account? we will not oppose it, I felt I had to put my views forward. After all, many Mr. KNOX: The deposit paid by the per­ people other than contractors have to handle son buying the house. money. From my discussions with large builders I have ascertained that they are not Mr. Wright: Prior to the performance of really concerned about the way the Bill was the contract? originally drafted. Not one of the large contractors (with adequate capital behind Mr. KNOX: Yes. them) to whom I spoke complained to me. Mr. Wright: What can that money be However, others rang me-and they were used for? Only those purposes set out in the ones I was concerned about-as to section 9? whether their future and the future of their customers would be secure. Therefore, I Mr. KNOX: Yes. cannot really see any need for the amend­ ment. Mr. Wright: Are there any restrictions on moneys paid once the performance has Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for begun? Justice) (10.25 p.m.): I am glad to have the honourable member's views on the original Mr. KNOX: Yes. The restrictions are as clause because they are not dissimilar from in clause 9. Once the performance starts my own. However, i't was not only the he can start drawing on it, but only fo; Housing Industry Association; all of the the purposes set out in clause 9. He cannot contractors generally, particularly the smaller draw on it at all unless the purposes have contractors associated with the building of been fulfilled. houses, felt that under the provisions of the Bill as it stood they would be required to do Mr. Wright: There is no argument. a great deal of paperwork. I share the views Contractors' Trust [29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill 1737 of the honourable member for South Bris­ Clause 9 (4), which is on page 6 of the bane. I thought they were worrying need­ Bill reads- lessly but they are the people on the prac­ "All questions of fact material to the tical side. I listened carefu11y to their lawfulness of any progress payment made arguments and I was impressed by them. I shall be determined by a court as if t:hey was not in a position to argue against them were questions of law.'' successfully and I felt that in order to reduce the amount of paperwork, which would lead It refers to "a court". The Bill does not to a great deal of extra costs-if it is a confer jurisdiction on any particular court. genuine statement and if they are correct in One can only assume, therefore, that if the their assumption; and I accept it as such­ amount of the progress payment [n question it is desirable that I should overcome the exceeded $6,000, the matter would be dealt problem on behalf of the consumers or the with by the Supreme Court. I believe that people buying the house. It must be remem­ the jurisdiction of the District Court should bered that we are discussing fairly small be spelt out in the particular clause, and I contractors in ·the contracting field. ask the Minister to clarify that point for me. The honourable member is quite right. The big contractors are not worried about Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for this at all. In fact, the amount of their Justice) (10.32 p.m.): I am not really in a paperwork in these areas is pretty large and position to argue with the honourable mem­ the faot that some money has to be paid ber on the opinion he expressed on clause into a trust account, which most of them 9 (1) (a). I trust that he is not right, and have, is of no great consequence to them. that is all I can say. Sut it is of consequence to men who are As to clause 9 (4), the jurisdiction is to not used to a great deal of bookwork having be found in other legislation. I do not think w worry about it, if indeed they had to at it is necessary to have a special court to all, and I doubt whether they did. To make handle these matters. They are civil matters it quite clear that we are looking after the that usually would be handled by the deposits before work is performed, I pro­ respective courts according to their jurisdic­ posed the amendment. tion. I am not really sure what the honour­ Amendment (Mr. Knox) agreed to. able member was hoping for. Perhaps he thought there should be some specific Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for reference to a court. Is that what the Justice) (10.28 p.m.): I move •the following honourable member meant? further amendment- Mr. Hanson: Yes. It should be clarified. "On page 5, omit all words comprising lines 12, 13, 14 and 15 and substitute the Mr. KNOX: I do not think it is either following words- desirable or necessary. Anything from a 'this Act pay so much of money (being few hundred doHars to thousands of dollars the whole or part of the contract price could be involved in civil actions, and the for any contract) received by him jurisdiction of the various courts is so con­ prior to that date and before he had structed that they are able to handle all commenced to perform that contract, such actions. As I said, I do not think that a as has not been duly applied by him special court is needed. If the legislation is for a purpose specified in section 9.'" successful, a minimum number of cases, not a great number, will have to be considered. Amendment agreed to. Clause 9, as read, agreed to. Clause 8, as amended, agreed to. Clause tO-Disbursements from trust Clause 9-Withdrawals by contractor account- from trust account- Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (10.34 p.m.): Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (10.29 p.m.): The clause reads- lt could be argued successfully that clause "A contractor shall not draw against or 9 (1) is not sufficiently wide to protect the cause any payment to be made from a public against the actions of a managing trust account kept by him unless the draw­ dir·ector of a building business which carries ing or payment is made by his cheque or a out its functions under the guise of a com­ cheque drawn by a bank, crossed and pany. One knows only too well the sorry marked on its face 'not negotiable' and state of affairs that has arisen in the past payable to order." couple of decades in this country when a business, under the guise of a company, That provision could be ambiguous. Payment perpetrated quite a lot of open and blatant can be made by the contractor either by his fraud, much to the detriment of the innocent cheque or by a cheque drawn by a bank, public. I do not believe that in any legislation crossed and, as the clause says, "marked on !t is the intention of either the draftsman or its face 'not negotiable' and payable to the Minister to open the gate as wide as order". It is intended, of course, that the possible. However, the provisions of clause contractor's cheque should be drawn in the 9 (1) (a) are not sufficiently wide to afford the same manner as the bank cheque. However, public the protection that it needs. it should be noted that banking practice is 1738 Contractors' Trust [29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill

that a bank cheque usually is payable to Clause 14-0ffences- bearer. I make that point to stress the possibility of ambiguity. Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (10.40 p.m.): I refer to clause 14 (3) (b) at lines 29, Clause 10, as read, agreed to. 30 and 31 where it is provided- Clauses 11 and 12, as read, agreed to. "Proceedings before the stipendiary Clause 13-Power of Minister to exempt- magistrate shall be proceedings with a view to the committal of the defendant Mr. BROMLEY (South Brisbane) . (10.35 for trial or sentence or with a view to p.m.): At the introductory sta~e I said th!lt summary conviction at the election of the I thought this was a goo~ Bill, and ~ .still prosecutor." think it is. Clause 13 gives the Mmister power to exempt certain classes of con­ This provision is causing quite a bit of tractors or constructors. It seems to me concern ,and comment and I should like some that this could excuse many contractors clarification as to why the Minister has from falling into line with the Bill. Con­ placed it ~n the leg!slation ~nd what his sequently the money of a certain number intentions are. It IS submitted that the of customers or purchasers could be in election as to whether an offence should be danger. I should like the Minister to reply prosecuted summarily or upon indictment briefly on this point, which he did not do should be made by the stipendiary magistrate at the introductory stage. and not by the prosecutor. It is £urther submitted that all proceedings To whom would the Minister grant against an offender should commence by exemption? Exemption could be applied to way of a committal hearing and, if at the many large contractors or to smaller con­ end of the prosecution oa.se the magistrate tractors of good standing in the community. considers that the case is one fit for trial It seems to me to be a fairly wide power. by jury, he should then so nominate and People should be made aware of the Minister's enter the plea of the defendant so that the intention here. It could remove a lot of matter can be dealt with by the District worry from the minds of building contractors Court. If the magistrate is of the opinion who have spoken to me about the Bill if they that an adequate penalty can be imposed sum­ knew what the Minister intended. I have marily, the defendant would then be able explained the Bill in detail to a number to call evidence and have the matter pro­ of people who have talked to ~e about ceeded with summarily. The election envis­ it over the telephone. After I said that I aged is simiLar to that which the magistrate thought they could trust the legislation, they has in relation to dangerous driving offences have not bothered to come along to see under the Traffic Act. me about the Bill. Apparently they were quite happy about it after. I ~ad explain.ed It is further submitted that, generally, the it to them. However, this Is one pomt magistrate is more fully qualified to make a I should like clarified on behalf of the proper election than is a prosecutor. Some­ people who have contacted me. times because imparciality enters the matter there' is a danger of the way being left open Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for for some unscrupulous prosecutor to indict Justice) (10.38 p.m.): This clause is a safety an offender for a reasonably minor offence. valve which was included for the very So that the public mind can be set at ease, reasons mentioned by the honourable member I should like the Minister to explain jusi for Rockhampton. One does not know what why this clause has been placed in the legisla­ one is likely to strike in uncharted waters. tion, and what his intention is in placing it Under the Trust Accounts Act there is there. power for the Minister to exempt solicitors and accountants when, say, the affairs of Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for very close relatives are being looked after. J,ustice) (10.42 p.m.): I do not know that the A person might have only two trust accounts public mind i.s very disturbed by th~s, alt_hough -one for a member of his family and one I will endeavour to put the public mmd at for somebody else. We do not want to ease. have people involved, unnecessarily, in a Mr. R. E. Moore: I think it is the heap of paperwork, with audit inspections and publican's mind. all the rest of it. In such a case I grant exemption, but only very rarely do I have Mr. KNOX: It is quite obvious that the cause to do so. honourable member has had some consulta­ tion with a lawyer somewhere along the It might have been thought that, with way. I do not think he would have dis­ .this power contained in the Bill, the Minister covered this of his own volition. In fact, would grant exemptions in all directions. this is a somewhat different procedure from Such a provision is socially desirable, but that adopted on ocoasions in the past, but it is not envisaged that the clause will be it does not really matter if the prosecutor used extensively. It would be used on very elects to take a certain course; it is still up limited occasions, as is presently the case to the magistrate to decide how it will be in respect of the trust accounts of solicitors done. It is his court and he will make the and accountants. decision. The defendant's advocate can raise Clause 13, as read, agreed to. objections if he wishes to do so. So it lis Contractors' Trust [29 OCTOBER 1974] Accounts Bill 1739 merely the initiation that is presumed to go in Mr. KNOX: But that relates not solely this partioular way under (3) (b). The result to this Bill; it applies to any situation. will be the same, depending on what the magistrate decides. Mr. Wright: Can you turn round and grant a person an exemption that is retro­ Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG (Townsville) (10.43 spective? p.m.): The matter the honourable member tor Port Curtis just ratised goes deeper than Mr. KNOX: Let us forget for the moment that because it would appear that these that I am Attorney-General and assume that offenders can be prosecuted by an inspector, it is a Minister other than the Attorney­ who can demand an answer from a con­ General. In such a case it would not be tmctor. Further back in the Bill it states permissible for the Minister to do k If he did that a contractor cannot refuse to answer so he would be helping to condone an .a question by an inspector. This takes away offence although it had not yet been proved . from him considerable legal rights. I always The question of guilt would still have to be understood that no-one was forced to answer established. If an inspector has obtained a question by a policeman or any other certain evidence, he issues the necessary interrogator. summons. The question of proceeding any further would be a matter for other author­ Mr. Knox: He is not forced here, either. ities based on the elements of justice. Dr. SCO'IT-YOUNG: According to this Mr. Wright: At what point do you give he can be because it says, "Shall not fail exemption to a contractor? to answer any questions put to him for the purpose of this Act by an inspector." Mr. KNOX: The only exemption would One might read into that, "Through his be from the requirement to have a trust solicitor" or "through his legal representa­ account, as is presently the case in relation tive." to solicitors. If a person applies for exemp­ tion and upon inquiry we find that he is Mr. Wright interjected. only looking after the trust account of his mother or sister, for example, we grant him Dr. SCOTT-YOUNG: It should be through an exemption. In such a case the public his solicitor. interest is not involved. The other interesting point about clause If a contractor is building a home for a l4 is that on the wording the fines go as close relative and has no other trust accounts, high as $10,000 for a corporation. This he may well be granted exemption. He will rather belies the original statement that not g,et it automatically, but he may get it this lis only a small contractors' Bill. This after investigation. again gives me the impression that it cuts across the Builders' Registration Act. I As 'to the important question raised by cannot vrsualise anyone erecting a small the honourable member for Townsville-the building or doing a repalir job the cost matter of the high penalty-we are dealing of which would be such as to warrant a fine with people who might have trust accounts of $10,000 for any offence committed. totalling many thousands of dollars. A fairly Admittedly it is the maximum fine; never­ serious matter could be involved in the theless it seems to be a very high figure. handling of money held in trust. AdmiHedly the commission of an offence would be rare, Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.45 but it could happen, and is more likely to p.m.): Does 'the Minister have power similar happen, in a case where the trust account to that given to him by clause 13? In other contains a large sum of money. We are words, has he .the power to grant exemption dealing with a multitude of trust accounts. to people who have committed an offence? Has he the power to waive a fine imposed on As far as the inspector's powers are con­ anyone who has committed an offence? cerned, in answering que~tions the contractor retains his common law rights. This Bill Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for does not deprive him of those rights. He can Justice) (10.46 p.m.): Not necessarily as refuse to answer the questions on a number Minister in charge of this legislation-no of grounds. more than an Attorney-General has power ;n relation to any other offence. Clause 14, as read, agreed to. Mr. Hanson: To look after his mates. Clauses 15 to 17, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Mr. KNOX: That is not correct. These provisions relate to matters already before Bill reported, with amendments. the court, and it may be that the circum­ stances are such as to make it unjust to THIRD READING proceed along certain lines. Bill, on motion of Mr. Knox, by leave, Mr. Wright: That is the point I am making. read a third time. 1740 Limitation of Actions Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Limitation of Actions Bill

LIMITATION OF ACTIONS BILL periods of limitations that exist. We do nol oppose any other aspect, but I make this SECOND READING point again. Members will have noted from reading the previous Acts on the Statute Book Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister that the limitation periods vary from 12 for Justice) (10.52 p.m.): I move- months to something like 12 years. Having "That the Bill be now read a second spoken to some legal people, I can find no time." real reason for that tremendous variation in This Bill, in the main, follows recommenda­ limitation periods, except that this is how it tions made by the Law Reform Commission has been done in the United Kingdom for and its principal objective is to consolidate many, many years and in other States-and the law relating to limitation of actions. that therefore there seems to be no reason to change it. However, no-one has bothered to In England a fixed period of limitation question it before. on actions to recover land was first estab­ lished in 1540. The Limitation Act of 1623 It is my personal opinion that there should established limitations for personal actions be at least some uniformity. Instead of hav­ as well as for those for the recovery of real ing a dozen categories of limitation periods, property. Later general statutes of limitation surely we can introduce provision for all have been modelled on this Act. limitations to be within three years, six years or, say, 12 years. The various categories This Bill is based on The Limitation Act could be set according to the special circum­ of 1960. The length of the limitation period stances or the special characteristics of the follows from the nature of the relief sought. actions that might be commenced. As the periods of time provided generally by the existing legislation have proved satis­ I feel t!hat, if the members of the Law factory to date the recommendations of the Reform Commission exercised their minds Law Reform Commission have been adopted on this, they would agree that certain types and little or no alteration has been made of actions need only a small limitation time thereto. while others need the 12 years that have been set. However, in no circumstances As it is difficult to justify short limitation should the period be reduced. Surely they periods in relation to the Crown, it is pro­ should be grouped more uniformly. posed to impose on the Crown the same time limitation period as exists for private indi­ I suggest that that would help the layman viduals and corporations. However, it is in particular. How many of us here know considered that the administration of large exactly what the limitation period is on a areas of Crown land justifies a longer period problem that we might encounter? All sorts of adverse possession in order to defeat the of variations exist in tort and so on. Most Crown's title. It is therefore proposed not people do not know. If a person rings a to bind the Crown by this Bill in relation solicitor, the solicitor has to check through to the recovery of Crown land. the various Acts to find out. We need to be able to group them in a general way. Thal In relation to the extension of limitation would certainly help the layman as well as periods inquiries have been made by the the legal practitioner. Law Reform Commission in England and New South Wales and the legislation there The Bill is in line with the recommendation seems to be working satisfactorily. The of the Law Reform Commission and it is Commission feels that this is the only way generally in line, as well, with Labor think­ a genuine claimant whose ignorance is ing. Therefore, it has the support of the excusable can gain redress. However, one Opposition. must not lose sight of the fact that it is only by order of the court that the time may Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister be extended. for Justice) (10.57 p.m.), in reply: The honourable member for Rockhampton raised It is considered that this Bill is a most the matter of limitation times. I am not desirable piece of law reform. prepared to argue about them, because I Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.54 really do not know enough about the history p.m.): When the Bill was introduced on of these matters to be able to give an 19 September last, I said that the Opposition explanation, except that the Law Reform favoured the consolidation of laws within Commission has felt that the times have not the State. This measure consolidates three been an impediment and, as a result, the main Acts and generally updates provisions Commission has not recommended any sub­ relating to the special privileges that have stantial changes. lf the people closely been given to officers of the Crown concern­ involved with the law feel there is no diffi­ ing pending actions and, as the Minister said culty, I hesitate to suggest any alteration. at the conclusion of his speech, it gives Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. special exemption to people who, in special circumstances, could not commence their actions within the normal time. CoMMITTEE The Opposition intends to support the Bill, (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) but I rei{erate the view that the Law Reform Clauses 1 to 43, both inclusive, as read, Commission should consider the actual agreed to. Property Law Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Property Law Bill 1741

Schedule- land and to those members of the legal profession who specialise or engage in con­ Don. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister veyances and dealings with unregistered land. for Justice) (10.59 p.m.): I move the follow­ The number of legal practitioners capable of ing amendment- handling a conveyance of unregistered land "On page 19, after· line 26, insert the is now quite small and for this reason trans­ following words in their respective columns actions with unregistered land are attended as shown- to with considerable delay and cost. These factors, together with the doubts whioh ' 14 Geo. 5 No. The Cotton Industry I Section 33 (2) surround unregistered titles, make such land 28 as amended Acts 1923 to 1926 .' " much less attractive and not readily market­ able and give rise to inconvenience and Amendment agreed to. expense which, if permitted to continue, would steadily become intolerable. The ulti­ Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister mate objective of these provisions is to have for Justice) (11 p.m.): l move the following all unregistered freehold land in Queensland further amendment- registered under the Torrens system of "On page 20, after line 26, insert the registration within a reasonable period of following words in their respective columns time. as shown- It is proposed to set up a special section within the Titles Office to implement and '55 of 1971 State and Regional Planning Sections 112 carry into effect the provisions for the as amended and Development, Public (2) (a), 112 compulsory registration of unregistered land. Works Organization and (4), 113 Environmental Control Act For this purpose the Bill provides for the 1971-1974 appointment of an investigator of old-system titles. By way of explanation-since the intro­ The owners of unregistered land will be duction of the Bill, it has been noted that relieved of the major costs and difficulties the State and Regional Planning and Deve­ associated with bringing the land under the lopment, Public Works Organization and Torrens system of registration. The Titles Environmental Control Act and the Cotton Office will conduct searches, systematically, Industry Act also contained short limitation parish by parish, and make the necessary periods. As it is intended by the Bill to information available to intending applicants. consolidate the law relating to limitation A printed form of application will be pro­ of actions and to bring the Crown, local vided to assist applicants to supply the authorities and other statutory bodies into required information and the Crown will line with private individuals and corporations bear the cost of surveys in cases where an by imposing on them all the same time application is made within the specified time. limitations for all types of actions, it is It is also proposed to waive the application considered these two Acts also should be fees associated with the registration of this included in the schedule. land. Amendment (Mr. Knox) agreed to. The benefits to be derived will be twofold- Schedule, as amended, agreed to. (a) all owners of freehold land will have a guaranteed title and will be able to deal Bill reported, with amendments. with their land on the strength of that title; and THIRD READING (b) there will be ease of administration Bill, on motion of Mr. Knox, by leave, in that all freehold land will be dealt with read a third time. under one system and not two separate systems as at present. I have already explained that those provisions PROPERTY LAW BILL of the Bill relating to the termination of tenancies and the summary recovery of pos­ SECOND READING session will not apply to landlords or tenant& of dwelling-houses. Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for Justice) (11.3 p.m.): I move- The Bill will limit the forms of freehold estates capable of being created to the two "That the Bill be now read a second forms originally recognised at common law, time." that is, estates in fee simple and life estates. The Property Law Bill is a most important Estates tail, being an estate of inheritance and a very large branch of our law. The which passes to lineal decendants only of main objectives of this Bill are reform, the donee, will be abolished. This form of simplification and codification of that law. estate in land has long since ceased to be The Bill contains numerous provisions, and of any legal or social significance. I do not intend to attempt to give a detailed There is a common-law rule that the owner explanation of the clauses contained in it. of land becomes the owner of any fixtures, The provisions relating to the compulsory such as a house or other building, which registration of all unregistered land will be are permanently attached to the land. This of particular interest to the owners of such means that a house mistakenly built upon 1742 Property Law Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Property Law Bill the land of another may become the pro­ where possible, and these provisions go a perty of the owner of that land under cer­ long way towards achieving this without inter­ tain circumstances. fering with the essential provisions of par­ ticular Acts. Added to this is uhe fact Vhat The Bill provides that where a person the provisions of the Bill will, unless inap­ makes a lasting improvement on land owned propriate, apply to property other than by another in the genuine but mistaken land, thus producing an element of uni­ belief that the land is his property, such formity in the law of both real and personal person may apply to the court for relief. property. If the court is of the opinion that it would be just and equitable to grant relief, the Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.10 court may make an appropriate order to p.m.): It was pleasing to members of the resolve the matter after a consideration of Oppos~tion 'to find that the Minister did take all the circumstances of the particular case. some notice of and gave consideration to the The incidence of building on one allot­ suggestions put forward from this side of ment in mistake for another is surprisingly the Chamber, by members of the community and by the legal profession. It was also very large, and such errors are likely to continue pleasing to me to see that he removed the to recur as long as there is large-scale clause in the previous Bill relaJting 'to mort­ development of new residential subdivisions gagees. That clause was going to place a which in their undeveloped condition often very heavy financial burden on mortgagees in make it difficult to identify a particular allot­ that, even if they paid out their mortgage ment or to distinguish one from another. within a shorter time than was required under Legislation on this subject is, therefore, not the mortgage, they would still be required only justified but necessary. to pay interest for the total period on the The Bill contains provisions relating to total principal sum. We have noted that the the execution, registration and revocation of changes ~hat have been made are in accord­ powers of attorney. The Land Act and the ance with the Minister's explanation at the Real Property Acts contain provisions pro­ introductory stage. It is the considered viding for the registration and effect of opinion of members of the Opposition that powers of attorney. These provisions are these changes will be beneficial. restricted to dealings with land. However, The Bill does achieve a consolidation of powers of attorney are executed and exer­ the law as it relates to property. Because of cised just as frequently in relation to trans­ that, it has the support of the Opposition. actions other than land involving personalty For my own edification the Minister might and particularly shares. The provisions con­ advise why he did not include the Real tained in the Bill will provide for a modern Property Act here, because if we are going and generalised procedure and set of forms to consolidate the law as it relates to pro­ dealing with all powers of attorney. perty, I should think that that Act woufd Previous reports and recommendations of have been included. the Law Reform Commission have resulted There is one aspect that the Opposition in the enactment of the Statute of Frauds is concerned about. The Minister said that 1972 and the Perpetuities and Accumulations the provisions relating to termination of Act 1972. It is preferable that the provisions tenancy do not apply to dwelling-houses. It of these Acts be incorporated in the Property is impor,tant to the Opposition that we get Law Bill, which embraces all property rights this properly clarified. I give notice of my in general, and consequently these two Acts intention to move an amendment if the Bill have been repealed and re-enacted in this applies in any way to the tenant of a Bill. dwelling-house. The Minister might indicate whether or not tenants and landlords, as In England a good deal of legislation has they relate to dwelling-houses, are completely been enacted from time to time directed at exempt from the Bill. dispositions of property by debtors whose aim was to place their property out of the Mr. Knox: I understand they are. What is reach of their creditors. The first of this the problem? type of legislation appeared in the year 1376. Mr. WRIGHT: There is provision in the Bill in clause 133-and I refer to the clause Similar legislation was adopted in Queens­ for the convenience of honourable members land, and this appears in the Mercantile Act who might want to look it up-that the of 1867. This Act and the old English notice 'to terminate a weekly tenancy will statutes still apply in Queensland and are be on a weekly basis. I realise that in expressed in archaic and somewhat unclear common law it has always been accepted that language. That part of the Bill relating to there will be a week's notice for a weekly voidable dispositions replaces and expresses tenancy and a month's notice for a monthly in a simpler and more modern form those tenancy, but I point out that this principle or statutes which were directed at fraudulent rule does not apply to a yearly tenancy. In dispositions of property. the case of a yearly tenancy only six months' The principal object of the Bill is to notice is specified. It would seem that it is assimilate in one statute, as far as possible, thought that no-one requires a year's notice, the rules of law applying to land. It is so it has been brought down over many desirable that uniformity should be attained years to a period of six months. I suggest Property Law Bill [29 OCTOBER 1974] Property Law Bill 1743 that the same argument could be used in the CoMMITTEE case of a weekly tenancy, but in the opposite (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) direction. Clauses 1 to 64, both inclusive, as read, Mr. Chinchen: It should be only 3:} days? agreed to. Mr. WRIGHT: I said in the opposite Clause 65-Rights of purchaser as to direction. Although a person might have a execution- weekly tenancy, it would be almost impos­ Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister sible for him to find an alternative dwelling for Justice) (11.17 p.m.): I move the following within one week. A written notice might be amendment- posted, but because of the way the mail services are today the tenant may end up "On page 30, lines 14 and 16, after the with only five days' notice. It is the feeling word 'solicitor' insert the words- of the Opposition that the minimum period 'or conveyancer'." should therefore be a fortnight. I have been Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.18 told by members of the Opposition that, if p.m.): I am wondering why the Minister such a complaint is heard in the Magistrates has moved this amendment. I believe there Court, the magistrate usually rules that a are only a few conveyancers in this State. month's notice is a fair and reasonable Is it to cover these people or does he intend period for a tenant to vacate the house. to make provision for a new type of semi­ The honourable member for Ipswich West and others have said that a month is usually legal conveyancer? what the magistrate determines as a fair and Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister reasonable time. It is our opinion that a for Justice) (11.19 p.m.): We still have con­ fortnight should be the minimum period. If veyancers in Queensland. It was an oversight the Bill applies to the normal resident of that they were not included and it is neces­ a dwelling-house, the Opposition will move sary to cover the situation since we do have an amendment requiring at least two weeks' conveyancers here as well as solicitors. notice to be given to the tenant. Amendment (Mr. Knox) agreed to. The Bill is a rather complex one. It Clause 65, as amended, agreed to. contains 260 clauses, six schedules and 149 Clauses 66 to 106, both inclusive, as read, pages, which is certainly a large amount for agreed to. anyone to digest. It relates to freehold estate, future interest, concurrent interest, Clause 107-Powers in lessor- deeds and covenants, mortgages and unregis­ tered land. It contains many ideal provisions. Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for It is obvious that we are going to clean up Justice) (11.20 p.m.): I move the following the archaic property law provisions in this amendment- Stat,e, some of which go back many hundreds "On page 54, lines 13 and 14, omit of years. We are really doing something in the words 'Subject to subsection (2) unless the interest of property-holders. We have otherwise agreed,' and insert in lieu thereof had a considerable amount of time to digest the words- the Bill. This is the second time the legisla­ 'Unless otherwise agreed'," tion has been introduced. We have looked at it and have had legal people look at it, The words "Subject to subsection (2)" are and we have no further argument except on to be omitted because subsection (2) of this one provision which relates to the ter­ this clause has already been deleted. It mination of tenancy on a weekly basis. related to premises let for the purposes of residence, that is, dwelling-houses. The pro­ Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister visions of the Bill will not apply to dwelling­ for Justice) (11.15 p.m.), in reply: First of houses, and the words now being omitted all, on the question of the Real Property should have been omitted when subsection Act not being included, that Act deals with (2) was taken out of this clause. It was machinery of property and is subject to overlooked. frequent amendment. We have already Amendment (Mr. Knox) agreed to. amended it twice in the last few years. It deals with the machinery of registration and Clause 107, as amended, agreed to. therefore its principles are somewhat different Clauses 108 to 122, both inclusive, as from those of property-ownership. That is read, agreed to. why it is not included. Clause 123-Interpretation- The Property Law Bill is one which we want to keep not immutable but in its Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for unaltered state for as long as possible. That Justice) (11.23 p.m.): I move the following is why we want to make it as comprehensive amendment- as possible. "On page 62, omit all words comprising lines 27 to 32 both inclusive and insert As to the clause relating to weekly in lieu thereof the following words:­ tenancies, it would be desirable to deal with it at the Committee stage. '123. Interpretation. [cf. Eng. s. 146 (5); N.S.W. s. 128]. (1) The pro­ Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. visions of this Division do not apply 1744 Real Property Acts [29 OcTOBER 1974] Amendment Bill

to leases from the Crown of land The Bill provides that those clauses held from the Crown under the pro­ directly related to the Property Law Bill will visions of the Coal Mining Act, the commence on 1 December 1975. The remain­ Land Act (other than leases of land ing clauses will commence on the day on under Part XII of that Act), the which this Bill receives the Royal Assent. Miners' Homestead Leases Acts, the Section 57 of the Real Property Act pro­ Mining Act or the State Housing Act, vides a remedy when a mortgagor is in but do apply to underleases from the default under the mortgage. These provisions holder thereof of such land'." are being repealed and replaced by provisions Subsection (1) has been redrafted to avoid which have been included in the Property any misinterpretation of its meaning. It is Law Bill. However, it has been necessary, in possible that this subsection, as previously order to avoid difficulties in the construction drafted, could be interpreted to apply only of section 58, to insert a new section 57 to underleases of land under the Acts men­ expressly enabling a mortgagee of land to tioned, whereas it is intended that these exercise the statutory power of sale con­ provisions apply to all underleases of land, ferred by the Property Law Bill. including those under the Acts mentioned. The provisions of section 46A of the Real The new subsection (1) will clarify this Property Act 1861-1974 enable the Registrar matter. of Titles to destroy certain documents held Amendment (Mr. Knox) agreed to. in his office which do not still evidence a Clause 123, as amended, agreed to. subsisting interest in land. This allows the Clauses 124 to 260, both inclusive, and destruction of documents which are of no schedules, as read, agreed to. further use and makes available much-needed filing space in the registry. The Bill will Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for extend the provisions of this section and Justice) (11.26 p.m.): Before I seek leave to allow it to operate more effectively by move the third reading, I should make it empowering the registrar, in doubtful cases, quite clear that the Bill, with the exception to determine whether, in his opinion, an of those parts of it relating to compulsory interest in land, as evidenced by a particular registration of unregistered land, will not be document, is in fact a subsisting interest. proclaimed until 1 December 1975. This is Section 98 of the Real Property Act pro­ being done so that if any further amendments vides that any person claiming an estate or are found to be necessary in the intervening interest in land may lodge a caveat forbidding period, they can come before the House registration of any other interest in that land before the pmclamation has been made. either absolutely or until after notice of Mr. Marginson: We will fix them up. intention to register such instrument shall have been served by the registrar. However, Mr. KNOX: I have no doubt that the since the passing of section 39 of the Real honourable member would like to be in a Property Act of 1877 a caveat lapses after position to fix them up, but he will be three months unless proceedings are com­ struggling to get back. menced in the court to determine the matter. Bill reported, with amendments. Consequently the words, "either absolutely or until after notice of intention to register such THIRD READING instrument shall have been served" now service no useful purpose and are being Bill, on motion of Mr. K.nox, by leave, read a third time. deleted. The Bill also contains the necessary amendments resulting from the conversion to REAL PROPERTY ACTS AMENDMENT decimal currency. BILL Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.31 SECOND READING p.m.): As the Minister explained, the amend­ Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister ments are necessary because of the many for Justice) (11.27 p.m.): I move- changes wrought by the Property Law Bill. Changes must be made to the Real Property "That the Bill be now read a second Act to keep its provisions in line with pro­ time." perty law. Most of the amendments contained in this A study of the Bill has revealed that the Bill stem from the Property Law Bill. In amendments are mainly machinery and relate addition, the Property Law Bill repeals and to such matters as an appeal to a judge replaces numerous other sections of the Real of the Supreme Court if an applicant is not Property Acts. This will leave the Real satisfied with a decision of the Registrar Property Acts to serve their primary function, of Titles. As the Minister said, other amend­ which is that of a title registration and ments relate to the updating of the amounts conveyancing statute concerned with effecting of money. A conversion is being made land transactions and registrations without in from pounds, shillings and pence to dollars any way interfering with predominant and cents. I raise one point. Rather than features of the Torrens system, such as delaying the House now, in the Committee indefeasibility and conclusiveness of stage the Minister might tell us why the registered title. words "five hundred pounds" are being Sewerage, Water Supply, (29 OCTOBER 1974] and Gasfitting, &c., Bill 1745

omitted from section 88 and the figures of gasfitting work so that provision respect­ ·'·$12,000.00" substituted. A similar amend­ ing these matters can be made under the ment is made to the last page of the Gas Act. I think honourable members will Schedule. That seems to be rather excessive. agree that it is desirable for all matters '\'lr. Knox: It is a decimal-currency con­ relating to gasfitting to be dealt with under version. the one piece of legislation. During the introductory debate, the hon­ :Vir. WRIGHT: If that is decimal-currency ourable member for Redcliffe mentioned the c;ouversion, I hope somebody will turn my position of migrant plumbers who desire to bank account back to pounds, shillings and obtain a licence to operate in Queensland. pence and then convert it accordingly. Some­ Under the Act, a person who holds certain thing sounds wrong about an increase from overseas qualifications and has had not less £500 to $12,000. If it was a typographical than five years' practical plumbing experience error, another error appears on page 5, where is eligible for a plumber's licence as of right. the words "one thousand pounds" are omit­ The qualifications recognised by the Act are ted and "$12,000.00" substituted. I think we the London Cities and Guilds; The Worship­ need clarification of this point. ful Company of Plumbers, London; the \1otion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. Herriott-Watt College, Edinburgh; the Stow College, Education Authority of Glasgow; COMMITTEE and the Scottish Federation of Plumbers and Domestic Engineers' Associations in conjunc­ (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) tion with the Scottish Education Authority. Clauses 1 to 10, both inclusive, as read, A person who has had the requisite prac­ a~orreed to. tical experience but does not hold one of Clause 11-Amendment of s. 88; Trans­ the recognised qualifications can make mission will and probate or letters of adminis­ application to the Plumbers and Drainers tration to be produced. Particulars to be Examination and Licensing Board for the registered- issue to him of an interim licence. If the board grants him an interim licence, he is Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister authorised thereby to undertake plumbing for Justice) (11.33 p.m.): The honourable work until the next examination is held by member for Rockhampton raised the matter the board for the issue of plumbers' licences. •Jf the conversion from £500 to $12,000. If he passes the board's examination, he in fact, we are increasing the amount, not becomes entitled to a full plumber's licence. merely making a simple conversion. The It will be seen that provision is made for amendment will increase the amount to migrant plumbers to obtain authority to $12,000 instead of $1,000. It will then carry out plumbing work in Queensland. be uniform with provisions relating to a person dying intestate. Similar provisions I might point out that there is an inter­ exist in section 32A of the Real Property state agreement regarding reciprocity of .\et 1877-1974 and section 290 of the Land plumbers' licences, and the standard of Act. qualification for such licences is basically similar in the various States. In terms of Clause 11, as read, agreed to. the agreement, a person holding a plumber's Clauses 12 to 17, both inclusive, and licence issued by another State authority ,;chedule, as read, agreed to. automatically becomes entitled to a plumber's licence in Queensland upon his payment of Bill reported, without amendment. the necessary licence fees.

THIRD READING As was mentioned at the introductory stage in reply to the honourable member for Bill, on motion of Mr. Knox, by leave, Redlands, the Plumbers and Drainers Exam­ read a third time. ination and Licensing Board has on it rep­ resentatives of the Plumbers and Gasfitters Union and the Master Plumbers Association. SEWERAGE, WATER SUPPLY, AND The board supports the provisions of the GASFITTING ACT AMENDMENT BILL Bill. I foreshadow a very minor amendment of SECOND READING the Bill at the Committee stage. In terms Hon. R. J. IDNZE (South Coast-Minister of the present Act, the Plumbers, Drainers for Local Government and Electricity) (11.35 and Gasfitters Examination and Licensing p.m.): I move- Board, which is responsible for the licensing of plumbers, drainers and gasfitters, consists "That the Bill be now read a second time." of eight members, including a representative from the gas companies and the Government There was general agreement with this Bill Gas Engineer. With the transfer of the at the introductory stage. As was explained licensing of gasfitters to the office of the then, the purpose of the Bill is to remove Government Gas Engineer, there will be no from the Sewerage, Water Supply, and Gas­ need for the above representation on the fitting Act provisions dealing with the board. The Bill makes provision accordingly, licensing of gasfitters and the carrying out but no consequential alteration was made to 1746 Sewerage, Water Supply, [29 OcTOBER 1974] and Gasfitting, &c., Bill the provision of the principal Act which then submit himself for the gas examination. fixes the board's composition as eight In my opinion, honourable members on both members. The amendment I foreshadow is sides of the House will consider that that that this provision be altered to reduce the shows a very tolerant attitude and is a very composition of the board to six members. necessary move in view of the great demand for work of this type. Mr. BALDWIN (Redlands) (11.40 p.m.): I recall quite clearly ·the introduction of the My electorate has a grave shortage of Bill by the Minister's predecessor and the plumbers and drainers, and during the explanations that he then gave in answer to change-over from coal gas to L.P. gas it had questions by me and by other honourable a grave shortage of gasfitters. Very often members on both sides of the House. As the needs of society have to take precendence the Minister has said, there was general over the need for what might be termed agreement with the provisions of .the Bill as paper qualifications. As long as the Minister outlined at that time. can assure us that adequate opportunity is given for the gaining of experience and the I was very pleased to hear the Minister passing of a standard examination, I am sure give an explanation tonight in answer to that no honourable member or the electorate questions asked at the introductory stage by at large need have any fear that there will the honourable member for Redcliffe con­ be a lowering of standards or, as it was cerning the eligibility of migrants to become referred to in the immediate post-war days, qualified in this State and do plumbing work a diluting of general qualifications and here. Of course, in your present capacity, efficiency. Mr. Speaker, you are unable to pursue the mMter in debate; but I am sure that the The rest of what the Minister has presen­ Ministe~ who has assumed this portfolio will ted to the House tonight appears to be have discussed the question with you fully merely consequential and necessary in the and satisfied you on it. Of course the Minis­ light of the changes that will follow the ter has given an explanation to the whole implementation of the Bill when it becomes House tonight. an Act. I foreshadow a question or two in I was very interested to note the Minister's the Committee stage. In general the proposals enumeration of the educational authorities appear to be in keeping with the demands and training authorities in other countries the of the times and the specialisation of pro­ qualifications from which are recognised in cesses as society evolves, and we accept the Queensland. Bill as a progressive step in the right direction. I do not know the technicalities of the effect that the change-over from coal gas Hon. R. .T. HINZE (South Coast-Minister to natural gas, and also, of course, to L.P. for Local Government and Electricity) gas, as the principal type of gas used in (11.47 p.m.), in reply: In reply to the industry will have. I do not think any of honourable member for Redlands I point out us really knows; but the Minister may, on that gasfitting is taught at technical colleges advice. throughout the State. Such training would Mr. Bromley interjected. enable a person to become conversant with all types of gasfitting work associated with . Mr. BALDWIN: Liquefied petroleum gas, L.P. gas, natural gas and coal gas. In effect m reply to the honourable member for the honourable member supports the Bill. South Brisbane, who has a unique way of Motion (Mr. Hinze) agreed to. looking at matters such as this. Mr. Tucker: And a strong sense of humour. COMMITTEE (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) Mr. BALDWIN: And a very strong sense of humour that brightens the House at times. Clauses 1 to 4, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. It occurred to me-I am anticipating here -that some al

Part HI of the Bill contains those pro- justify a determination to be made for an VISIOns governing the registration of inquiry to be held in public and that the optometrists. optometrist charged should be given an equal opportunity to require such a hearing. Under the existing Optometrists Act, it has been possible for persons to obtain The provisions in relation to appeals enable licences to sell spectacles, and these types an aggrieved person to have access to a of sales represented what would commonly judge of the Supreme Court. be termed counter sales-that is to say, a <.:ustomer has been able to fit and try his Part IV of the Bill headed "Miscellaneous" own selection of spectacles from a counter contains provisions which represent in the display until he finds a pair he considers main reprovisions from the present Optomet­ are best suited to him. rists Act. The restrictive provisions relating to the The number of persons so licensed in use or supply of drugs are clearer, and the Queensland has dwindled over the years, penalty for an offence against them has undoubtedly not only because of the facilities been increased from $200 to $250. now available for the proper testing of eye­ .,ight and prescribing of the correct type One provision to which particular atten­ of spectacles but also because the public tion is drawn is that which forbids an has been educated to realise that self-selection optometrist from causing, suffering or per­ of spectacles could have an injurious effect mitting a person who is not an optometrist on eyesight. to do or perform any optometry work o:r business that has been entrusted to such At the present time there are only five optometrist except under the direct personal persons licensed to sell spectacles in this supervision, and in the presence, of an State, and I have sensed that there is general optometrist. This provision has been carried agreement with the deletion of those pro­ forward from the present Optometrists Acf visions firom the Bill. It will be obvious into which it was introduced by the 1939 from my remarks that the persons so affected amendment Act. do not represent any of the firms who dispense optical prescriptions prepared by This provision has been retained in the ophthalmologists. Bill since it will be apparent that student optometrists or applicants for registration One of the major differences in this Bill required by the board to undergo further from the provisions of the present legislation training represent unqualified persons who represents the qualifications listed as entitling will actually practise optometry in the the holders thereof to Queensland registra­ course of their studies or training, and it is tion, these being set out in greater and to be expected that their optometrical work more definite detail. should be supervised by an optometrist. Matters requiring disciplinary action by r stress therefore that the penalty for an the board, the procedures required to be offence against this provision is $250, and followed by the board in holding an inquiry that any optometry work or business done into any such matter and the disciplinary by other than an optometrist must be carried actions the board may take, represent repro­ out under the direct supervision, and in the visions of existing provisions in more orderly presence, of an optometrist. manner, except that the maximum penalty the board may impose has been increased I refer now to the Bill's provisions relating from $200 to $250. to the practice of optometry by bodies of persons, and point out that these represent a An inquiry conducted by the board is code of offence provisions with respect to required to be open to the public only where bodies or associations and are quite distinct the board so determines or the optometrist so from those which apply to natural persons requires. The existing law provides differently only. They do not affect those bodies or in that an inquiry is required to be open associations of persons who dispense the only where the board so determines, but the optical prescriptions of ophthalmologists or board may make such det,ermination of its optometrists. own motion or at the request of the person who complained to the board of the matter The present optometrical practices of both the subject of the charge or of the optometrist city and country optometrists,. the prof~ss~on concerned. of ophthalmology, and optlcal-prescnptwn dispensing businesses are not altered or The existing Act also provides for the affected in any way by the Bill's provisions. person making the complaint, or the optometrist, to have the right of appeal Those provisions of the Bill concerning against a refusal by the board to determine penalties for fraudulent practices, general that the inquiry be open to the public. penalty, proceedings generally, b~-l:aw m~­ ing powers, and procedural provlSions With It is felt that the board, as the body relation to by-laws are all self explanatory, responsible for deciding whether there are and follow the pattern of the legislation grounds for the holding of an inquiry, is introduced in recent years for other profes­ competent ~to assess whether public interests sional boards. 1750 Optometrists Bill [29 & 30 OCTOBER 1974] Optometrists Bill

It is to be noted, however, that the st~ge. He mentioned that country optome­ penalty for a fraudulent prac,tice has been tnsts fear the intrusion of O.P.S.M. into increased from a maximum of $200 or country areas, and I think it is a matter imprisonment for 12 months to $250 or that must be looked at very closely. imprisonment for six months, or both such fine and imprisonment whilst the general The Minister has stated that certain pro­ penalty has been increased from $100 to visions in the Bill ensure that work will be $250. carried out by the major suppliers of spec­ tacles only under the supervision of an The last of the more important new optometrist. That is all right as far as it provisions introduced by the Bill is that goes; but apparently there is no provision giving authority for the continuation of the as to the number of persons who may be practice of a deceased optometrist. A similar supervised by one optometrist. In my provision exists in the Pharmacy Act, and opinion, that is a weakness in the Bill, and this authority has been provided on the I propose to speak further on it when the clauses are under discussion. recommendation of the Board of Opto­ metrical Registration with the view to The Bill contains provisions that still allow affording a deceased optometrist's relatives back-door entry into the profession and I a reasonable time to dispose of ~he practice do not think it is as tight as it ought to at its proper value. be in that regard. I shall deal with that matter when the appropriate clause is under It will be noted that the provision sets discussion. However, the Bill is timely and an initial maximum period of 12 months for it does clear up the law relating to optometry. such continuation but includes authority for the board ~o permit a further period; also The board to be set up is in line with that the continuation of the practice is sub­ other paramedical boards and I do not think ject to its being carried on under the actual that the Opposition has any quarrel with personal supervision of an optometrist. that provision. In conclusion, let me emphasise th& mis­ Appeals by optometrists and by those who givings expressed in various areas as to the complain of anything that an optometrist has purposes of the Bill have no foundation, done are very well covered. and that it represents simply another effort to assist in having the legislation of the State T do not wish to speak at length now, expressed in a clear and orderly manner because I shall have more to say when which will make it easier for all concerned certain clauses are being discussed. At this to ascertain the current law. stage I say on behalf of the Opposition that I think the Bill will have a very advan­ I commend the Bill to the House. tageous effect on the practice of optometry.

Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (12.15 a.m.): The Mr. HANSON (Port Curtis) (12.19 a.m.): Bill represents an advance in the field of I wish to make only a few comments. ] optometry in that it consolidates the Act remember speaking about optometry some and effects certain improvements that are years ago in this Chamber, and if the long overdue. As far as the Opposition can Bill tidies up the law relating to optometrists, see, its provisions are quite satisfactory. the Opposition will be fully in accord with its provisions. Certain disturbing events in There is no reference in the Bill to appren­ the optical world require the attention of ticeships, and at this point I should like to those administering the relevant legislation. pay a tribute to Mr. Verney and his staff Usually we are very proud of the ethical at the Optometry Clinic at the Queensland standards of these professional men but Institute of Technology. They are doing an recently there have been certain transgres­ excellent job, and optometry has come a sions, particularly in country areas, which long way in the last few years since that have amounted to unethical conduct. clinic was established. Optometrists visiting a country town I know I did note a reference at the introductory well are using the consulting rooms of stage to O.P.S.M. The spread of the oper­ doctors. In newspaper advertisements they ations of that company are a matter of con­ are providing the telephone numbers of those cern to the optometrical profession generally. doctors. This gives a decided advantage to I understand that it is controlled by members those optometrists, and it amounts to of the opthalmological profession, and it unethical conduct on their part. In the seems to be spreading its tentacles all over Biloela newspaper an optometrist regularly Queensland and, indeed, all over Australia. advertises from the address of various doctors Its method of operation gives some cause in the community, and gives the telephone for concern. I understand that it employs numbers of those doctors. Only recently members of the Dispensing Opticians' Associ­ optometrists who were using the office of a ation-! think that is its name-and there real estate agent were touting for business. is a tendency for it to employ people who I know that the honourable member for are not fully qualified optometrists. I share Callide can look after his electorate, but the concern expressed by the honourable if people living in an area adjacent to his member for Mackay at the introductory electorate feel that they have been aggrieved. Optometrists Bill [29 & 30 OCTOBER 1974] Optometrists Bill 1751

I certainly will make representations on their that certain unscrupulous people moved out behalf in the House. I should expect the among the clients of optometrists to persuade honourable member for Callide to be in them not to deal with this firm because it agreement with my making representations was not a member of a certain organisation. on their behalf. This is abhorrent to the ethical standards of the profession and against the accepted Over a number of year,s the optical pro­ and decent standards one expects of ordinary fession has been plagued by the spurious business let alone a professional organisation ->tandards of some of its members. One of in this country. the most glaring examples of someone acting contrary to the best ethical standards of the I certainly wish the optometrists well in profession was an optometrist by the name their stand against the standover tactics being of Champion. Certainly he was no champion used upon tJhem. We want 'an optometrical in his own profession. When he came to profession tin this State that will stand on its this country he was responsible for setting own and maintain high standards of integrity. up a firm called Optical Prescriptions-not I do not want to see the supermarket type the O.P.S.M. as it is known now. He got of optometry inflicted on various parts of work from eye specialists. With the agree­ this State. ment of eye specialists he channelled work I wish the legislation well and I hope that to himself. In the days of the Minister's it wm eventually be to the benefit of optom­ predecessor there was opposition to etrists throughout the State. These matters optometrists being referred to as spectacle deserve attention. They have been brought makers. They were classified as optometrists. to my notice by various people in the pro­ Of course, the punch line was missing. fession who feel that large-scale organisa­ Honourable members can have one guess at tions have become very petty when their this. The man I referred to started Optical wishes have not been complied with and have Prescriptions. In due course Optical Prescrip­ spread vioious rumours about the optical tions and Spectacle Makers came into being. profes&ion. We do not want operations of Of course there was the iniquitous 1953 this type in this State or the vicious unfair legislation-the Page health (or wealth) practices in which they engage. As I said, scheme. Certainly it was not a great page we want optometry run by Queenslanders of in Australian optical history. Under that whom we are proud and who, in their turn, legislation the medical benefits ,scheme, will be proud to stand before the world as members of a very fine profession. largely financed by the medical profession of this country, was channelled in such a way Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister that it was in complete opposition to the for Health) (12.30 a.m.), in reply: I listened optical profession and optometrists of with interest to the contributions of the Australia. honourable membeTs for Nudgee and Port Curtis. I understand that the honourable Many of these unfair practices in recent member for Nudgee will elaborate at the t'imes will be changed by a Labor Govern­ Committee stage on the points that he ment. With the setting up of medical Taised, so I do not propose to comment on benefits funds we saw millions of dollars them now. being lost to the optometrists of Australia. The whole exercise was a disgrace to the As to the honourable member for Port medical profession of this country. People Curtis, I do not propose to follow his rather with good qualifications and very high stand­ interesting historical resume of the activities ards were disadvantaged by considerable of the profession, nor do I intend to follow opposition from the medical profession which his comments that gave me the impression apparently had gained the whole wo~ld but that he was to some extent talking in riddles. had lost its own integrity. It was to the He referred to "certain" organisations without disgrace of the medical profession that it being specific. was discriminatory towards the optical pro­ fession in this regard. Mr. Hanson: I will tell you the name. It's O.P.M.A. I hold many of the fears expressed by the honourable member for Nudgee. Many Mr. TOOTH: At any rate, at this late people are on the hard sell in this country hour I will leave it at that. The honourable today with regard to optometry as well as member can rest assured that both the board with other things, and [t is up to the Govern­ that will operate under the Bill and ment to see that the public is not blatantly optometrists generally will observe the fleeced by those in this vicious commercial highest ethics in Queensland. enterprise. Motion (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. Recently the profession of optometry was seriously discriminated against because its COMMITTEE members would not join certain organisations. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, I mention specifically a case in Western Aus­ Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) tralia where an optometrist purohased a very successful and well-run business known Clauses 1 to 18, both inclusive, as read, as A. G. Thompson & Co. only to find out agreed to. 1752 Optometrists Bill [29 & 30 OcTOBER 1974] Optometrists Bill

Clause 19-Qualification for registration- he raised. The board must have some dis­ cretionary powers in this field. Probably the Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (12.32 a.m.): At strongest reason for including the provision the second-reading stage I referred to the that the honourable member expresses reser­ backdoor entry into the profession. Subsec­ vations about stems from the fact that for tion (2) of this clause provides that a person some considerable time we have had people who is not eligible for registration through coming from other countries and seeking the normal channels may apply to the board registration in professional areas. Many of in the prescribed form, pay the prescribed fee them, perforce, have had to come to Aus­ for registration and, if he satisfies the board tralia since World War li and, in many that he is of good fame and character, shall instances, they have been considerably dis­ be entitled to be registered as an optometrist advantaged by the rigidity facing them when if the standard of his general and optometri­ they try to move into professional areas with cal education is, in the opinion of the board, which they are familiar in their countries of not less than the standard of the general origin. and optometrical education required of persons under paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of I have a note on the matter that will prob­ subsection (1). ably set the honourable member's anxietie~ at rest. The qualifications listed in the pro­ This provision is a weakness in the Bill, visions of clause 19 as entitling the holders and in fact, unlike the previous provision thereof to Queensland registration are in in the Act is not watertight. The old Act pro­ accordance with the recommendations made vided that anyone who proved to the satis­ by the expert panel in optometry of the faction of the board that he held some Committee on Overseas Professional. certificate or other evidence of qualification Qualifications. prescribed by the board could be registered. In other words, the Act provided that he The qualifications recommended in respect of the four overseas countries (New Zealand, must hold some certification or other evi­ Britain, Canada and the U.S.A.) were con­ dence as to his qualifications. This provision, clusions arrived at by the expert panel after on the other hand, provides only that he shall detailed comparing of qualifications obtain­ satisfy the board that he is of good fame and able in those countries with the optometrical character and that the standard of his general standards required in Australia. and optometrical education-not his certi­ fication-is sufficient to satisfy the board. To reach these conclusions, the panel This casts a heavy onus on the board in that obtained the syllabus details of every pro­ it is a very wide provision. Apparently an fessional optometrical course in the countries applicant need only have a mate on the board dealt with. Information was also obtained on the requirements and procedures of various to become registered as an optometrist. accrediting, registering and licensing authori­ Furthermore, the clause provides that not­ ties and on the examinations of professional withstanding the provisions of subsections associations and examining boards. This (1) and (2) a person who applies for regis­ information was sought through correspond­ tration may be required by the board to ence, through representations by Australian complete further training, pass an oral Government officers at overseas posts ami examination or a written examination or through personal visits specially commis­ both, or-not "and"~pass a test of his sioned by the panel. command of the English language to the The panel also turned its attention lO satisfaction of the board. vhat is a rather the modes of practice and systems of ethic, loose provision. in the countries investigated. It can report If the board decides that it wants further that, in those countries where a compara­ evidence, all an applicant need do is pass a bility of training has so far been established. test to show, to the satisfaction of the professional and ethical standards are known board, his command of the English language. to be of at least an equivalent level to those It is not stipulated that he shall complete in Australia. further training and pass an oral examination. As a basic tool of evaluation, the panel It merely provides that he shall do any of has employed the 1971 statement on these three things, one of which is to pass Minimum Requirements for Courses in a test in the English language. It is not Optometry produced by the Australian and mandatory on the board to ask him to do New Zealand Association of Schools and any of these things. I regard this as a back­ Colleges of Optometry. The panel has been door entrance to the profession. The pro­ able quickly and effectively to analyse the vision should be tidied up. The old Act was content of overseas courses by summarising: more specific about certification and sub­ their major components and tabulating these stantive evidence of qualifications of against the ANZASCO requirements. optometrists. This analysis of training courses has been Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister complemented by investigations into the for Health) (12.36 a.m.): The honourable regulatory bodies for the optometrical pro­ member is unduly disturbed about the points fession in overseas countries. In the case of Optometrists Bill [29 & 30 OcTOBER 1974] Medical Act and, &c,, Bill 1753

the U.S.A., this has required a detailed Once more we find that the work may be inquiry into the ramified system of accredi­ done by someone other than an optometrist tation, examination and licensure. under the direct personal supervision and I trust that my explanation will satisfy in the presence of an optometrist. This relates the honourable gentleman's anxieties. The to the anxiety felt about the operations in board must have a certain degree of country towns of large dispensing organisa­ flexibility. I am sure that its qualifications tions such as O.P.S.M. This clause provides and its sense of importance and integrity are a loop-hole for them that should not be such that the honourable member's anxieties present. All optometrical work, whether are not strongly founded. performed by an optometrist individually or not, should be performed by qualified Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (12.40 a.m.): I optometrists. This clause leaves it wide acknowledge what the Minister has said. The open. Provision is made for an optometrist Bill specifies New Zealand, the United King­ to employ an unqualified person to carry dom, Canada and America as being accept­ out certain professional work, though pre­ able. Probably other fmeign countries could sumably that person is to be under the super­ also be acceptable. However, the provisions of vision of the optometrist. As I pointed this section are not restricted to those who out previously, no limitation is imposed on come from overseas countries. It embraces the number of these persons. If an optomet­ those who live within Australia who are able rist employs three or four of them they to take advantage of this provision. could not be under his personal supervision Clause 19, as read, agreed to. for all the time they were occupied in optometry. Clauses 20 to 23, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. Clause 31, as read, agreed to. Clause 24-Disciplinary action- Clauses 32 to 41, both inclusive, and schedule, as read, agreed to, Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister for Health) (12.41 a.m.): I move the fol­ Bill reported, with amendments. lowing amendment- "On page 10, line 35, omit the word THIRD READING 'reprimanded' and insert in its stead the Bill, on motion of Mr. Tooth, by leave, word- read a third time. 'reprimand'." This is a typogmphical error. MEDICAL ACT AND OTHER ACTS Amendment (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. (ADMINISTRATION) ACT AMEND- Clause 24, as amended, agreed to. MENT BILL

Clauses 25 to 28, both inclusive, as read, SECOND READING agreed to. Clause 29-Restriction on practice of Hon. S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister optometry- for Health) (12.47 a.m.): I move- "That the Bill be now read a second time.'' Hon S. D. TOOTH (Ashgrove-Minister for Health) (12.42 a.m.): I move the follow­ This Bill is purely of a formal nature dealing ing amendment- with the changes to the registration board "On page 12, after line 19, insert consequent upon the passing of the previous the following- Bill. '(4) Nothing contained in this section Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (12.48 a.m.): The derogates from the provisions of sec­ Opposition acknowledges the need for this tion 32 in relation to bodies or assoc­ Bill and has no comment to make on it. iations of persons, cocporate or unincorporate.' " Motion (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. The purpose of this is to ensure that there is no anxiety on the paa-t of anybody about COMMITTEE the capacity of organisations such as (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss. O.P.S.M. to concinue as they have in the Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) past. Clauses 1 to 7, both inclusive, as read, Amendment (Mr. Tooth) agreed to. agreed to. Clause 29, as amended, agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment. Clause 30, as read, agreed to. Clause 31-Limitation on use by optom­ THIRD READING etrist of unregistered person- Bill, on motion of Mr. Tooth, by leave, read a third time. Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (12.44 a.m.): Briefly, Mr. Lickiss, I draw the Minister's. The House adjourned at 12.51 a.m. attention to the looseness of this provision. (Wednesday).