Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 4 AUGUST 1909

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Barron Falls Bill. [4 AUGUST.] Questions. 551

WEDNESDAY, 4 ACGFST, 1909. and if the hrm. gentleman persists in the line he is now taking, I shall have io say he is out of order. GovER~MEN1' J'vb;i\IBERS : Hear, hear ! The SPKiKER (Hon .•J. T. Bell, Dni!Jy) took Mr. ·woODS : Very well, I will get an the chair at half-past 3 o'clock. answer from the Premier, in spite nf himself. I give n•ltice that to-morrow I will ask the Pre­ PAPERS. rnier- V\'hat has become of the Barron Falls Bill ::~s llromised The following paper was laid on the table :­ in the Rockhampton programme? Report by Mr. J. G. :YiacDonald on the lazaret The hon. gentleman won't twist out of that at Peel Island. question-- The le llowing paper, bid on the table, was The SPEAKER: Order, order ! ordered to be printer! :-Regulations under the Navigation Act of 1876. Mr. \VOODS : With the assistance of the Chair. GOVEl\~ii!EN1' 11Eii!BEHS: Ob, oh ! Chair! BARRO:'\ FALLS BILL. The SPEAKER: Order, order ! I am sure QuESTION oP OnDER. that on reflection the bon. member for \Vootha­ }fr. ·woODS ( Wonthnkntrt): I gave notice of kata rrniRt qnite reali.:;e that no Speaker could a queetion to the Chi<'f Secrehtry, which was allow "" ouservation of that kind to pass un­ asked by the hon. member for Cairns yesterday. noticed. The question was- HoNOCHABLE 11D!BEI\S : Rear, hea.r ! What has become of the Bn.rron Falls Bill which was The SPEAKER : I am sure he cannot show included in the Rockh'!Lmpton manifesto, for the oa.rry­ anything in connection with parliamentary ing· out of which the present coalition was formed~ affairs which will sanction such a remark; and I, therefore, ask tbe hon. gentleman to be good The Premier, in reply, said- enough to withdraw it. If the hon. member will con~mlt Standing- Order );o. 64, he will find that his quAstion is out oE order. :Yir. \VOUDS : In deference to the House I withdraw the statement. I will say this-that It is. news to me t~>t it is the province· of a is the P'"ition we are placed in to-day. You Premier to occupy the po~ltion of SpPttker. will a~ree with me that the bnsiness-paper eub­ Standing Order 64 reads as follows :- mitted to us this afternoon goes to prove conclu­ In putting a question, no argume~t or opinion shall sively that t be Premier himself ruled my be offered, nor any fact stated, except so far as is question out of order, and not the Speaker. necessdry to explain the rtnestion. The SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. gentle­ I would like to know whether you gave thrtt man must know that this is not the time to ruling, Mr. Speaker, or was it the ruling of the bring this matter up. If the hon. gentleman is Pren1ier? not '.1tisfied with the reply from the Treasury The PREMIER: The ruling of the Premier. bench hH rnnst follow the recognised par!iamen· The SPEAKER: \Vhat prtrticular question tary c;mrse in order to express his disagreement. ·dues the hon. gentleman refer to? Mr. \VOODS: Of coursP. I have to bow to Mr. \VOODS : Entry No. 9 of ye,terday's your ruling. Probably. in the ne7r fut~1re we proceeding>. The reply, no.t from you, but from will h~tve an opportnmty of dealmg w1th the the PremiPr, was- matter. If the honourahle member will con~ult Standing Order Xo. 64, he will find that his question is out of ·order. DEATH OF SIR FREDERTCK HOLDER. I would like your ruling before we go any further. }fESSAGE FROM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Henr, hear ! The SP:EAKER: I have to announce that I have received the following letter from the Prime The SPEAKER: I should like to point out to Minister of the Commonwealth:- the hon. member that it is within the discretion of Ministers, within certain limitations, to decide Commonwealth of Australia, what answers they give to questions a ked by Prime ~Iinister, ~Ielbourne, 28th July, 1909. bon. me m ben. They are entirely responsible for the >tnswers they give ; and if the Chief Secre­ Sir -I have the honour to acknowledge with thanks the r~ceipt of your me:-sage of tbe 24th instan.t, e~m­ tary likes to reply in the terms be has employed veying- on behalf of yonrl'elf and the Leg-Islative to the question Hsked by the hon. member for Assembly or Queensland deepest sympathy at the sad Cairns on behalf of the hun. lJJember for \Voo­ death of the late Speaker ot the Honse of Represen­ thakata, it is quite within his discretion to do so. tatives. GovERN1!ENT :ME:I!BEHS : Hear, hear! On behalf of the members of the House of Repre'"en­ tatives permit me to express warm appreciation of your Mr. JENKINSON: An extraordinary ruling. sympathy. I have the honour to be, Sir, Mr. WOODS: l arn not dealing with the Your obedient servant, Premier; I am deBrisbane. Speaker. I want your ruling, 11r. Speaker. I want to knnw as a member of this Chamber, with you in that chair as SpE'

2. Did a deputation of sugar-mill proprietors wait on The TREASURER (Hon. A. G. C. Ho,w­ the then Secretary for Public Vl'"orks, and request that thorn) replied- sugar mills, juiC'e mills, and sngm· factories should be exempted from the operations of the board? 1. Yes, for the tlo~ting pipe line of the dredge­ 3. \VhR.t reasons were arhnJ..Df'ed in support of the ex­ "IIercnles." emptions being madP, and what was his reply or pro­ ~. 5-:tO lineal feet of patent loekingo-bar pipes \vere p1·o· mise thereto:: cured from the patentees in ~cw South \.Vale!", 31essrs· G. and C. IIoskiw'. of :Sydney, at £1 5:-:.. per fnot, f.o.b· The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS Syrlne.r; total hwded east, £762 12s . ..±cl. These pipes (Hon. G. Jackson, Kennedp) replied- last about twice: a~ long as riveted pipes. !. 3rd June. 190\J. a. Xo: these pipes cannot be made in this State. 2 and 3. ).ly predPces!';or in office, \fr. Appel, advises ':1:, See answer to ~o. 3. me he was m formed by per~ons interested in the sugar 5. 60 feet of ri.veted pipe, for shore and pontoon, were industry that an application woulr1 be mRde for the made at the Government dock at a cost of £l 3s. per constitution of a spedrtl board for that industry, and lineal foot. tha.t he dPP.mcd it desirable, on :tccount of the special conditions obtaining in the sugar inclnstry, that engine­ drivers employed in c0rmection therewith should come BHEACHES o~' LICENSING AcT. under the determination of such board when consti­ ·tuted. 1\Ir. ATREY (Brisbane South) asked the Home I may add that it is my intention to take the neces­ Secretary- sary steps at an early date for the appointment of a 1. Is it a f:tet that a summrJns for a brench of the spechll board for the sugar industry within the South­ Lirensing Act in the Hamilton Hotel last Dceember was eastern division of the State. issned some months ago against one Jarnes Irvingr :Mr. WooDs: What about the North? 2. Is it a fact that \V ben the case was en.lled before the court it was withdrawn owing to }Iinisterial inter­ PLEYSTOWE CENTHAT~ SUGAR MILL. vention~ 3. l'i! it a fact that on the same ilay that tbi& case was Mr. BARBER asked the Secretary for Agri· qunshed a man was found g-uilty of a similar offence at cultnre- a Redcliffc hotel and fined-tbe licensee being fined 1. On what date was the Pleystowe Central Sugar also r Mill taken over by the hank' 4. Will the ~linister kindly table all papers connected. 2. Has any dispute occurred between the canegrowers with this case~namely, the c:tse of Jame;:; Irving? and the bank"now owning the mil I since the sale of the property by the Government? The HOME SECHETARY (Hon. J. G. 3. Did he, as member for the district, and his col­ league promise the growers to introduce a Bill em­ Appel·, Albe1·t) replied­ powering the Government to repurchase the mill from l. Tes. the present owners of the property~ 2. Yes; at the instance or the Home Recretary, who con:;:.idered it a case for l\Iinisterial intervemion. The SECRETARY I•'OR AGRICULTURE 3. :\o information on record in Home Department. (Hon. vY. T. Paget, Macka!f) : The hon. gentle­ 4. Yes, if desired. man should have asked those questions of the Treasurer. However, I have obtained the in­ formation from the Treasurer, and the answers CmrPLAINTs BY "\VAIPARA" hrMIGHANTs. are- Mr. MURPHY (Cmpdon) asked the Chief l. 3rd Jul:v. l9r6. Secretary- 2. 9Xo information has been given of any dispute Does the Government intend to hold an inquiry into the between the canegrower~ and the bank. complaints made by the immigrants who arrived by the 3. Have no knowledge whatever of this matter. "Waipara," as to the laek of properly qualified medical attendanrb, bad sanitary arr11ngements of the vesset GovEHNl\IENT TRAWLING. badly cooked food. lack of space formarriect women and Mr. BARBER a"ked the Uhief Secretary- children, aud the removftllrom tbe hospital of patie~ts suffering from m<<-tsleS~ before the proper perioll, whlCh !. How many sets of trawling gear have been secured removal mmsed a fresh outbreHk of that epidemic? by the IYovernnwnt frJr the purpose of exploiting the fishing industry? 2. "lrVhat vessel is being used for trawling purposes? The PREMIER replied- 3. What is the length of the trawl beam froUI head A report havmg beeu received by wire from Rock­ to head? hampton that measlt" hall appeared on the "Waipara,',_ 4. If the" OttBr" sy~tem of trawl has bP.en adopted, the Health Department WHS immediately advi~ed and what is the length of the net across the head? took prompt action. On the ship's arrintl in llri~bane the l;overnmenL medicnl officers found six ch1ldren 5. What rc,nlt has been achieved up to the present sutl'ering from mr:l~le~, and one seriously ill from time~ scarlf't feve~· and diphtheria. All the patients are The PHEMI:ER (Hon. \Y. Kidston, Rock- under medlral tr~atment and m·e receiving every atten­ ltampton) replied- tion. Some a1legations have been made as to the quality of tte food supplied on the "'Yaipara," which allega­ !. One "Ottqr" tra.wl. tious are now bemg investigated, and if they are 2. Fisheries launch ·• O:;trea." sustaine,l .such represcntat10ns will be made to the 3. Department has no beam trawl. Briti.sll-Intlia Compar.v·as will, it is lwpcd, render it 4. "Otter" trawl, 25 feet spread, bo;:trd to board. uLlikelv th~t there ,-\,ill br any grounds for similar complaint.s in 1uture. 5. Four days' trawling in bay; no satisfactory catche::~. Only a small number of fish taken, mostly ground-fish -namely, soleF, flounder, sea. prawns, and squat crHyfi.sh. TAxEs U!inEn CRHTAIN AcTs. :Yfr. JI.IAKN (Cai1·ns) asked the Secretary for M~;TAL PIPES FOR IhmnGE Pr,AN1'. Public Lauds- Mr. HUXHAM (BriBIJane South) asked the 1-Vill he u~c his influence ~vith the Tr('asnrer to have Treasurer- the fol!owmg OlJ!HE'"lSive taxes removed from the 1. Have any metal pipes for the dredge plant been primary producers:- recently landed from ~otlthern States;.- 1. '!'he Live Stock and ::\1eat Export Tax ; 2. If so, what was tho quantity and cost landed at 2. The Diseases in Stock Tax; Brisbane? 3. The Brands Tax; 3. 1Yere prke:~ for the vipes asked for from local 4. The Diseases in Sheep Tax ; makers? 5. The Db;eascs in Phmts Tax; 4. If so. from whom were the prices obtained and their respective prices P 6. The Dairy Produce Tax, familiarly known as the: cow tax. 5. Wh:tt did the pipes cost thRt were made at the Government Dry Dock: (No answEr.) Motion for AdJournment. [4 AUGUST.) Motion for AdJournment. 55:~

Mr. MANN: I ask leave lo give fresh notice hon. member requires for discussing .my finan­ of this question for to-morrow, as the Secretary cial question, I consider that it is my duty not for Public Lands is not in his place. to accede to the request of this letter. Mr. LESNON : Yes, he is; he is sitting there. GovERN:I!ENT MEMBJ;;RS : Hear, hear ! Mr. AIREY: I shall be under the necHsity SUPPLY OE' POLICE lJSIFORMS. then, Sir, of n1oving that your ruling be dis­ agreed with, for the following reasons:-­ Mr. LESINA (Clermont) asked the Home Sec­ retary, without notice- OPPOSITION l\IEMBEHS : Hear, hear ! Whether any provision has been made on this year's Mr. AIREY : In the first place, the oppor­ Estimates for the supply ot' police uniforms P tunity which would be afforded of discussing the m:>tter is so lamentrtbly insufficient that thi; The HOi\IE SECHETARY: In answer to House might as well have no opportunity at the hon. gentleman, I would like to point out all. (Hear, hec;r !) It is not a fitting thing that, m replying to a similar question the other that a question of this kind-a question of the afternoon, I said that the matter was now being utmost imJJOrtauce-the very biggest question, investigated. I am receiving reports on the sub­ financially sperd_er. The Honourrtble the Rpeaker, 1 underot~nd the hon. gentleman 1s quest10mng Queensland Legislative Assembly, yonr ruling as to a matter of order. The pro­ Sir,-I beg to give yon. notice that it is mv intention priety of the course of action i<' not in questwn. this afternoon (4th August) to move the adjournment No arguments are required to shuw that this or of the House, in order to drrtw attention to the urgent need for :;;ctting apart a day for the purpose of discuss­ that course is the better course. The only ques· ing the financial relations between the States and the tion is, Is the ruling given by you in order? Commonwealth. I deem this a matter of nrgenc:v on Mr. Mt:RPHY: You cannot bluff us. account of the near approach of the conference to be held in :\Ielbourne on this question: also on account The ~PEAKER: Order ! I should like fi rot of of the proximity of the date on which the protection of all to say that when an hon. member is epeaking the "Braddon blot., expires. to a point of order, it is highly disorrlerly for oth8r I am. Sir, Yours faithfully, rne1nbers to interject. 1 gave the ruling, on reading the letter from the hon. junior member P. AIREY. OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Hear, hear! for Brisbane South, that the matter that he wished to move the adjournment of t 1;e House The SPEAKER: In view of the fact than about-namely, that the question of the financial notice has been given of the intention on the relations between the t:ltates and the Common­ part of the Chief Secretary to move, on to­ wealth was a dennite matter of urgent ]Jublic morrow, the suspension of the Standing Orders importance-that it did not warrant me to ass;nt in order to allow of the passage of a Supply to his proposal, in view of the fact that a motton Bill, and as that provides any opportunity any stands un the busineo>-paper for to-morrow Hon. J. T. Bell.] 554 Motion for AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motwn for AdJournment. which gives about as wide a limit to the dis­ which is well worthy of note. The Premier's cussion as any motion does which ma.y be brought opinion was this-in discussing the very point l:efore this Chamber. we raise now, the suspension of the Standing Mr. \Voolls: It will be settled with the "gag." Orrler. The Speaker gave his opinion on this The SPEAKER: That was my ruling. The m1ttter- The SPEAKER: I do not see any point of order. What ho~. membe_r thereupon rose and moved that my the Premier said is quite right. The Speaker is per­ rulmg be dJRagreed to. I have been followin~ fectly powerless in this matter. the hon. member attentively, and I understand Mr. HA)1ILTON: He said you knew it was done for the he is about to give reasons wby, from the point purpm:e of wasting time. of Yiew of parliamentary procedure, my view The PREMIER: Anydne 'vho will read the Standing should he diS'ented from. I would point out Orders for himse-lf will see that the Speaker is perfectly that so far as the hon. member has "y that I have to apologiRe, This was with regard to I see in which it can be done, and it is this: In the application of Standing Ord'lr No. 13GA. New Sunth \Vale., the Premier, ::\lr. \Vade Mr. MANN: He was dealing with a point that tabled certain specific proposals. The House: from every point of view, discussed those pro­ it was a waste of time. posals, and recorded their verdict upon them. Mr. AIREY: Now, with all re,pect to your ruling, Sir, if we The PRE~HER: When the hon. member !or South enter on a desultory di,cussion on the motion Brisbane proposed the motion for the adjournment of for the suspension of the Standing Orders, it may the House the other day the members of the Opposi~ amount to this: i\femhers of the Government tion thought it was a godsend. Here was another party, or members of the Opposition, may get chance of wasting time. up, and give their own individual opiniom, and )fr. Rmv"1U.:'i: That is untrue. the Premier ancl the ::\Iinistry will be perfectlv JUr. HAMIJ,TO::'l": Was it not an important subject P at liberty to criticise those opinions. They will 'fhe PRE~HER.: It was simply a waste of time. be perfectly at liberty to either flout or jeer at 1\ir. BmY3IAN : That is not true. them, or, perhaps, t(.) agree with thern ; and, per.h~ps:, a~ t~e bl,me tn;ne, they rnay express no And then the hon. member came to his point- d•·_fimte OJHlllo:'s of thmr own. They may give ~'he PRE~!IER: Anyone who will read the Standing th1s House no 1dea as to what they intend to do. Orders for himself w1ll see that the Speaker i.s perfectly OPPOSITION ::\IE1!BERS: Hear, hear ! powerles~o in this matter. \Vhatever his personal opinion may be, the Standing Orders-unfortunately, I ::\Ir. AiltEY: That is the fundamental diffi­ think-do not give him the power to exercise his per~ culty in a proposal of that kind. Xow, I have sonal judgment so~ long as a cerhlin number of hon. dealt with tlmt phase of the que .. tion, and I will members rise in the House, and advant~ge was taken of that for the purpose of carrying on a purpmelfy~ and de1tl n?": with one or two othc r phase" why I useless debate in this House. deem 1t IS all1mportant that this time should be given in the way I h1tve sp"cified. As every That was the opinion of the Premier upon the mernberknows, we are approaching the time of functions of the Speaker in this particular the exp1ry of the Braddon blot, and, if no matter. Now, this is not the first time this arrangement is mad, within the next few question has arisen in this House, and I would months, we may be face to fece with a very great like to refer back to " dbcussion th1tt took de1tl of financial disorder. The Premier himself place in the year 1901, when the hon. has adm1tt.ed the urgency of this question by the member for Locky8r, ll1r. ,\rmstrong, took fact that he wished to have power to go down to the same stand that I am taking to-day, and Melbourne. If, then, it is sn urgent that this moved that the ruling of the Speaker on a House is to suspend its business so that the question of this kind be disagreed with. An Premier may go to :Melbourne, then I say the eminent anthority on questions re­ case is sufficiently urgent for time to be set [4 p.m.] bting to the Standing Orders then apart to have this important q nestion fully and in the House, the Hon. A. S. thoroughly discussed 1tnd well thrashed out. Cowley, the hon. member for Herbert, gave a Nir. BLAIR: Before anything is done. most interesting summary of the whole position from various standpoints. The hon. member for Mr. AIREY : If it i~ necessary that he, or Lockyer himself quoted a case that had occurred any other member of th1s House, should gu to some years before in this House. The hon. Melbourne to discuss this all-important questiOn member said- then I maintain it is also absolutely necessary The first occasion upon which this question was that the opinions and re,.,sons of this House brought before the House was on a proposed motion for should be heard before the House should pass adjournment by an hon. member sittini.;" on the opposite the resolution. side, )fr. ~IcDonald, the then member for Flinders. He OPPOSITION MEllrBERS : Hear, hear ! wished to move the adjournment of the House on a definite matter of urgent public importancR, and 1\Ir. Mr. AIREY : I venture to suggest that there SpeakPr Cowley put the question from the chair. The were sufficient precedents for action in this then Premier, Sir Thomas )icilwraith, objected to the matter last year. I then brought forward a question being put, and moved that, the Speaker's ruling be disagreed to. After considerable discus:;;ion the similar motion, and I think the case at that time ruling was upheld on the ground that l\Ir. Speaker had was nothing like so strong as it is now. Although supported his rnlinp: with deeisions of Mr. Speaker months wem to elapse before any Premier or Brand of the English House of Commons, one of which :Minister, or any represent.ative of this Hou,e, said- could go to Hobqrt or :Melbourne to rliscuss this It is not for the Spraker to say whether a matter is ot question, still the then Premier thought it we.s urgent public importance. sufficiently important to allow the motion for Then the hon. member for Herbert, in discussing adjournment to stand. I might point out that the question, said- not only was that so, but the Premier himself Like most Houses in His l!ajesty's dominions we take on that particular occasion, gave an opinio~ our practiCe from the practice of the House of Com~ [Hon. J. T. Bell. Motion for AdJournment. [ 4 .AUGUST.] Motion for AdJournment. 555 mons. The same practice had existed in the House of ourselves. Before our delegate-whether he be Commons as formerly existed here-that is, that any Premier or not-goes to J\1elbourne, it is impor­ two members could move the adjournment of the tant that he should be apprised of what our House. They found there that a great deal of time was wasted. and they determined to amend the Standing opinions arP. If he is to go at all-there may he Order, and that patticular Standing Order ·was debated two opinions, of conrse, as to that-if he is to go for ~o:everal nig-hts. It was originally introduc.3d in at all, he should know what is t':Je opinion of this quite a difft;rent form. AR nearly as f can remember, HouRe, and the opinion of this House c:.nnot be as­ when it was introduced bj' the Government., instead of certained unless there is some specified, definite, allowing two members thA right to move a motion for the adjournment of the House, it was proposed that it proposal before the House, made by the Gonrn­ should devolve upon tlw House itself, as sn;.:,{ested by ment, upon which the House can give its verdict. the Premier to-day, and that a majority of the House I suggest that you, Sir, in the rnhng that you ~hould decide. After a very long :tnd intelligent debate have given-if I mrty say so with all rr;spect­ 111 the House of Commons, it was cle:uly pointed out nre acting unwibely. I r,hink you are going to that if that pnrtic'nln.r proceclnre was adopted, the pro­ put ns in the same predicament, if we do not babilities were that the adjournment of the House would never bf' moved, brcanse the Government, or the n1ind oursel veR, as t.he House of Cominons was day, having a majority, wonld exerch:e that majority, in England, when it all depended upon one or and the probabilities are that the :tdjournmcnt of the two rnen, or when the other propo.sal w HH n1ade House would never be m on !. Well, 'thls question was to throw the whole responRibi\ity on the ma,iority debait>d at very great length, and a c'1mpromise was in the House, which simply meant that the Go­ .arri'i"ed at after ·very careful ccmsirteration, whi(~h was vernment w:)uld allow a rn;)tlon for arljonnnnent aceepted by ~Ir. Gladstone, and resulted iu the Standing Order which nr1v·: stands in the Irnverial Sta~1ding if they liked, and would refuse if it they did not o.rders and in our own, which are practically a fac like it. I submit that your rnling tends to U]net lm.till' of thf'm. At the winding up or the debate, :\lr. the practice adopted, I think, by both 1\Ir. Glad~tone went into the ·whole .subject and surunmrised Spe!1ker Cowley and Mr. Speaker Leahy. I it. He said- submit th•t it is unwise, and I think that you " I do not think I am entitled to addrf'ss the House yourself, Sir, on more mature consideration, will again upon the first question lJUt to me by the noble find that that is so. A 'luestion of this kind­ lord, nor can I, as to the point involved iu the ques­ tion, spl~'lk with authority. \nth regard tt> the second a ']Uestion that affects the whole deveiopment of question, howeYer, it involve c.; a 1Jer~onal explanation of Queensland, that may affeet onr autonomy, that what it was that I di~ say. I will only re1Jeat that, as may affect our financial ,;olvency-is undoubtedly we framed the resolunon-" the most important quF 4 tion that mLn be placed I may say that ::\Ir. Gladstonc is s.peaking of that par­ before thi~ Assemb1y. Nobody can deny that, ticular Standing Order \Vhich, aR originally introdnced, and it ill becomes tile Premier, or the ruajority provided tbat a majority of the House should decide the of this House, to refuse time to discuss so im­ mattLr of urgency. He said- portant a question. ·H it wns hased on tbe agreement of the m:~jor~ty of the Hcuse. and a decision by the majority of the House. ::Yir. BLAIR: Bludgeon it through. 1Ye e;nsente1l in conformity with the amendment of my hon. frieml, the mPmber for \Yolverlunnpton (Hr. H. ::vir. AIREY: Le-';S than twelve months ago a H. l•'m~ ler1, to substitute for an appeal to that rrwjority new political cornbination was forrned in the of the Hout.e a vrovision in which a certain number of country-sn we were told-for the express pur­ member~ would ·be entitled absolutely and uncondllion· po::,e of settling the finRncial relation~ between ally to authorise the motion for the adjournment." the State and the Commonwealth. So nnportant This was the debate in the House of Comn1ons in 1882. was the qutstion deemed that a new politic::tl That was 3\Ir. Gladstone's clear o.nd emphatic combination wBs formed to settle it. Now it is dictum. Then Mr. Cowley went on to quote a w nnimportant that we cannot get a day to specific inst:mce where the Speaker of the dif3CU~S it. House of Comnwns, in answer to questions, The SPEAKER: Order! I think the hon. said- member will fl-ee tha.t he iR going out~ide the That i..-; a matter which is entirely >vithin the dir.crr­ question before the House, and is discussing the tion of lion. memhers who may ch.oose to support the merits of the qmstion upon which he de;ires to hon. member's proyosals. move the adjournment of the House. I think that is pretty ch'''r. A little further on, the hon. member said- Mr. AIREY: That is so, :\Ir. Speaker. I regret having to taltt in the House of Commons forty gentleman at the head of the Government wishes members n1w't rise to support the Inotion for to secure a special adjournment of the House. adjournment, while in our House, which is a That is one view of the matter, but I purpose to much smaller body, we require only five me~­ dwell more particularly upon the Standing bers to rise in support of the motion. That IS Order-the technical aspect of your ruling. the only diffemnce between the House of Com· :First of all I would point out that the right of mons Standing Order df';;ling with the right of hon. member• to move the adjournment of the members to move the adjourriment of the House Honee to call attentio'l to matters of urgent and our Standing Order dealing with the same public importance is one of the most sacred subject. rights we possess. It is the best protection and Mr. HA;IIILTON: The numbers differ, but the safeguard that the Standing Orders and consti­ proportion is the same. tutional practice afford to the minority. It is one of the hest means at their disposal for retain­ Mr. KENN A : I will now refer the House to ing what rights they may have. ~' Denui~on's and Brand's Decisions, I-Iouse of c.nmnons, 1857~1884." On page 8 of that work Mr. BLAI!l : They have equal rights. will be found this decision of !11r. ;:)peaker Mr. KEXNA: Yes; all members have equal Brand~ rights in this House. The right to move the An hon. member who seeks to move the adjonrnment adjournment of the House to call attention to of t,he House is bnund to state to the House the definite matters of urgent public impilrlance is the pro· matter of urgent public importance whieh he de:siret~- to of bring on. It is not for the Speaker to say whether the teetion "'nd ,afeguard the minority. I dtsire matter iR Of urgent public importance. rl'llC hon. to Impre:-l.H that point upon tnmnberl:l sitting on member states this upon his own re~ponsibility. this side of the House, and aho upon bon. mem­ bers opp hear in mind tlmt I have not questioned the mat'er as to whether the subject is uf urgent OPPOSITION 11EMBERS: Hear, hear! That is public importance at dl. 1\ly ruling is based the poillt. mainly upon the assumption that I do not con­ Mr. KENNA: That is the very kernel and sider it my duty to accept the motion, in view essence of the whole thing. If you can s"'y that a of the fact that a full opportunity for diocussion matter must be postponed until to-morrow, you on the matter will occur to-morrow. [Mr.Kenna. Motion for Adjournment. [4 AUG-UST.] Motion for .Lfrljournment. 557

Mr. KENN A : I am thoroughly aware of the speech on Federal finance, and dealt with it as nature of your ruling, but underlying it is the ably a~ anyone could have done. I am satisfied very principle that I am enunciating, because if thrre are not half a dozen men in this House you, in your capacity as Speaker, are allowed to now whose opinions would be worth listening to have the rig-ht t' determine whether a question on the matter. of moving the adjournment of the House is of so 0PPOSI~'JOX :\:IEMBEHS: That is a libel on the little importance, or is of such importance only House. that it can be discuF-;ed to-morrow, then we Hox. R. PHILP: If the hon. member for must admit that you also have the right to say South Brisban,, really wants to get a full discus­ whether it will be discus•;ed next week; and, if sion on the questi'Jll of the coofPrence in 11!:1- you admit the right to say tlmt it will be dis­ bonrne, I say we have the whole of to-day and cussPd nPxt week, you must admit the right to to-morrow, and thac is quite amj,le time for any s:;y that it will be discussed next ye- tr. I adn'iit House to discuss the IDi::\ tter. that your ruling dues not directly bear on the point I have indicated, but it does indirectly. GOVERNMENT MKHBERS : Hear, hur! OPPOSITION l\IgMBEHS: He-,r, hear! :i'vlr. BOW:YIAN (Fortitude Valley) : I rise to Mr. ALHEY: 'fh,,t is the point. Rupport. the nwtion of thP junior rnen1 ber for South Brisbane. I think, my-celf, thRt tht' reasons Mr. KEN;"\fA: Tbe,t io> the danger of it. It is that have heen nd<.:tncerl, both by thP hon. an jndirectruling which, if given effect to, would HlPmber for South BrLhane n.nd the hon. rneP1ber und rmine the right which every member in this for Bo,\·en, are sutE.cif'nt to warrant my~eH ~n Houso:.: und,iUbtedly has, \V ben he wi~hes to move rlisa!!'rreing to the ruling you, Sil', have la1d the adjournment of the House, to say whether down to-1lay. I see the danger-I do not wish the mattr:>r i~ of urgent public import:mce, or t.o hnputc any n1otives to yon at all Speaker whether it is not. Tllat is the point. I wish to of t.he House--I think you have given your rul­ impres' ngain upon hon. mernber ,,, that one of the ing believing it is right, bnt I, ~;s a n1ernber of bt:,~t alld fin'C:~t privilt,gesthPyhaveisthe privilege this HousP, recogni~P. that yon are. tn-d.a.y ex; r­ to li~\~ nv ~l,t ai_ly time ~lnd bring any !natter they cisin.{ a -pow8r that might Le detl'irrwntal to any de?.In of Fmflicient nrgent puhlie irnportance bdore member of thi.< House in the fntnre. the notice of the Hou,e, and before the notice oi 0PPOSI'l'IOX ::\IE:\fBEHS: Hear, hear! th,-· cc~nutry ; and if t-he hon. merr1bers will alluw their right to lk fritt~red t.way, as this ruling of Mr. BOW:\IA='J: My own opinion is thitt t.he yam:~ i ,y1 indirec~~I w,)n'L t~a,y attelnvt-but,it opportunity that yr>u suggested of di,cussinY this mat~ ::n· nn Appropriat.i11n to-nlurro\oV H3 wcmld indirect!} nnck tllirh-J a. privilege \' Lich is tht Bill SUP!HJrtui hy the LH~..-;t a,nt!lorities ti:u.tt one can not .ufilcient. I do not think there will be suf­ po~-·;ibly get~then thF cont--:eqner:ce~ rr1ust be \.ll1 fir"ent time, nnd I honestly rhink that a matter their O'-\ n heads. I hope hon. n1en1har~, in d.eal­ that has engaged tlw attention of the Prmniers in:~' with this rna.tter, will see the importane~ uf it, of the Conmlonwt..tlth now during s Vt'H con­ anrl that they will record their votes accordingly. ferencPR, and a n1atter on which they b~tve Tl8'J8r b n '1 hle to come to any defini t.'"" eonclu:.ion a:,, to HoN. R PHILJ> (1'ownsvillc) : I regret very what :.:honld he b,id do\Vn in the interee.ts of the much, t;ir, that your ruling ha~ been questbned. ConanOn\vPalth and the StatPS-ker"-if your mlin>( is upheld of the Hnme as to what oucht to take plaee in to-day-to Ray whether an hon. memher is at :\:Ielbo\1rne. liberty to move the adjournment of the House. !Hr. LESINA : \Ve cannot give &n instruction 0PPO~ITIOX ME}!BF.HS : Hear, hear ! That is on the 1uatter. the point.. HoN. R. PHILP: I wish to pomt out that it i\'Ir, BOW MA~: That is one of the privileges is not more than two yearN ago that the hon. that I, as long as I am in this House, intend to memher for South Brisbone was a. col:cague of defend. the Premier. He voted for the Premier to go Mr. Sn!NER: Should five hon. members rise to 1\1< lbonrne, then allowed the House to be in their places they c"•nnnt obje•ct to ir. adjourned without raising the question at all. Mr. BOWi\IAl'\: I think the case, that have Mr. AIREY : It was not urgent at that time. been cited by the hon. member for Bri,bane (Government laughter.) South and the hon. member for Bowen should Ho~. R. PHILP: It has been urgent for the even cau;;;.e you to waive the decihion yon have last seven or eight yea!", alre>.dy given. I think ample evidence has been given, and I am sure the spirit in which those GovEH~}IEN'r MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! remarks have been made by those hem. members HoN. R. PHILP: Unless we come to terms ha'~ not been in antagonism to you; it has simply very very 'oon, we shall not come to terms at all. been a question of lJrPserving our rights. (Go­ I say the motions for to-day ancl to-morrow will vernment laughter.) The Premier may comile, give this House ample opportunity to discuss but let me remind t.be hon. gentleman that when Federal finance, and to give what instructions he sat in Opposition there wa,s no man that safe­ they like to the Pr, mier. If the hon. member for guarrled his rights more than the same hem_ South Brisbane is honestly desirous-I believe gentleman, he is-this session he ga1·e a very interesting OPPOSITION li1Eli!BERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. Bowmrr;c.1 558 Motion for Adjour·nment. [ASSEMBLY.l Motion for AdjoUJ·nment.

Mr. BO'.VMAX: And to-day I feel certain Mr. BLAIR: \Vhat guarantee have we that that he will uphold you, Sir, rightly or wrongly, the order of procecl ure will be followed to­ so long as he can defeat the object of any hon. morrow? It is ouen to the Premier, as lt"ader of member sitting in Opposition. this House, to decide the order of busine.s~, to The SPEAKEn: Order! I am afmid the say what shall be on the busine's paper, or to hon. gentleman's observations at present are not decide whether the mattprs which appear now quite in nrder. shall be postponed, or whether'· they will he withdrawn altogether. Mr. BOWMAN : T will not delay the House, Mr. Speaker. I don·'" think better reasons can OPPOSITION 1\fE;I!BERS: Hear, hear ! be advanced than have already been [4.30 p.m.] given, and I intend to support the ?vir. BLAIR : Putting it nwrely from an junior member for South Brisbane argumentative point of view, that cloes t>way in his opposition to your ruling. with the ground you have given for yom: ruli:rg. Unle:-.s we protest Rtrongly on an occasion hke Mr. BLAIR (Ipswich): This, Sir, is a very this we are whittling away the rights given us serious matter, and it is a maLter that ought not under the Constitution as embodied in Standing to be allowed to go without the most ample dis­ Order No. 130. An almost identical point was cussion. It is ahvays a matter f1)r regret when raised some time ago by the hon. member for it becorne~ neces!:'lary to rnove that the 8peaker's Lcckyer, who moved that the ruling of the then ruling be di.:-agreed with, though, I an1 Rure, you Speaker be disagreed with, practically on the recognise that the motion is moved simply and same ground, and 1nade a Ktrong- f'peech-a good solely with the view of ascertaining whether or not speech, a relevant speech, and full of argument the Standing Order has been complied with, and on the matter. whether or not your interpretation of the Stand­ Several HoNOURABLE l\1E11BERS conversing in ing Order i~ correct. The motion of the junior loud tones, member for Suuth Brisbane is to thiR effect: He moves the adjournment of the House in The SPEAKER: Order, order! order to riraw attention to the urgent need for Mr. BLAIR: The question before the House· setting apart a dlty for the purpose of discussing to-day is one of even n1ore serious nwrnent than the financial relations between the States and the one he raised then, though the arguments he the Commonwealth. The Standing Order under used then are relevar,t to the position to-day. It which his action is taken is Nu. 130, which provides- is idle to contend that the matter i' not one of A motion for the adjournment of the House other urgent public importance-w much has been than the nsual motion to terminate the sitting of the conceded. There is a motion on the paper under House at the end of the business of the day shall not be whicl1 the Premier is going to ask l<'ave to go enteri·tit1ed, except for the purpose of debaiing n definite South. For what? To discuss this matter of ma-tter of urgent public importance, the subject of urgent public importance. He is going down which has been fir.:;t stated to 1\fr. Speaker in writing. there, and he is going without the inf<;rmation Any such motion shall be proposed by the mover which a motion of this kind, properly d1scu"sed, without debate in the first instance, but shall not be would elicit, and which would enable him more put by Mr. Speaker unless five other members at least ri~e in their places to support it. justly to put before the c.mferet•ce the aims and ideas of members of this Hou~e. The bon. mem­ And this important pabrtge occurs- ber for 'l'ownsville has stated that he does not If five members so rise in their places, the mover may think there are more than eight or ten men-- proceed. OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Six. The junior member for South Brisuane has quoted the utterance of the Premier on another Mr. BLAIR: \Vhose opinions are wortb any­ occasion, which was to the effect that this thing on finance. Admitting, for the sake of Shnding Order did not allow you to exercise argument that he is the arbiter on the question, your personal judgment on the question; and I and that his ios• dixit settles the value of the am inclined to the view that if five member" so opinions of merf1bers on any particular qnestion,. rise in their places the moHr would have abso­ whv not alluw those six or eight members to give lute right to proceed withont any recourse what­ the.ir <>pinions for what they are worth ? Why ever to your judgment on the matter. stifle six or eight? OPPOSITION ME~JBEHS : Hear, hear! Mr. '.V RITE: There is plenty of time. :i'.fr. BLAIH: I remember another occctsion :!\Ir. BLAIR: '.Vhat is proposed is in absolute when the Premier used words which seem abso­ accord with the procedure adopted inN e\v S•mth lutely appropriate on this occasion. He staV·'d \Vales. wh'!>J Mr. \Vade tabled propm•als which that" they only have rights who do.re maintain wer J di, cussed. in the House ; and I say tha.t, if then1," and I think those word~ are peculiarly this ruling is follow~d, we shall be deprived of appropriate at this juncture. (H· u, hear!) H anv voice or sk1..re in di~cn."sing in a proper 1vay­ cann()t, f'eriously be contended that this i..; not n, on·a specific motion-pr>po.tt in ynur land at the fonhcoming conference. If the dls­ opinion it is a rnatter ot urgent public import­ cm;sion is brought in on a side tmck when d<mured br othernmtters more Lec~use in your interpretation of tbe Standing or lt -,s irrelevant. Though [ do .so \vith a great Orders you have tcld us thttt ina•nnnch as an deal of reD'ret I subn1it that your ruling is one opportunity will be vouch;mfed for the discu'­ which if ;doyJted, wiil tn a certain extent fritter sion of the matter, it is not within the rights of away' onr privileges-will to a certain extent the junior member for South Brisbe.ne to pro­ prevent the matter being rliscuss'd in the way in ceed tn-day. ThH.t, I take it, in plain lHngnage, which this order, properly mterpretc-d, was simply postpones the urgency. While admitting specially framed to provid~. . For these reasons, that the 1Y1atter iH one of urgent public inlJJOrt­ if the matter goes to a drv1swn, I shal! be com­ ancP, you deprive the member who has risen in pelled to vote for the motion that your rulinv he his placed his undoubted right to move at this disagreed with. juncture. I put it in this way: '.V hat guarantee have we that the notices on the paper wrll be The PREMIEH: Although I do not wish to followed? prolong this discussion, I W!AN : Chapter and veroe? on the "gag." The SPEAKER : Order, order ! The PREMIER: Page 255. It says- The PREMIER: No man has claimed, and In accordance therefore with this principle, when it was proposed to call attention, on a motion for adjourn­ no man can claim, that this matter is so urgent ment, to the eoniinct of the GoYermnent in deferring a that to-morrow will be too late. statement of their intentions regarding tl:-.e course of GOVERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! business, the Speaker declared that he should decline to put the motion, because it wonld anticipate an The PREMIER : That is the whole case from announcement of which notice had been given-- the common-sense point of view. Mr. JENKINSON: \Ve will have no chance to­ OPPOSITION J\lEl\lBER:S interjecting, morrow, and you know it. The SPEAKEJ:t: Order, order ! 1\Ir. RYLAND : There is no to-morrow. The PREiiUER: This shows that the SpeakeF 'fhe PREMIER: The members who speak in the Hou -e of Corrnnons has a dibcretionary about the limitations of members' rights in this power as to whether be will allow a motion for matter will see that if your decision be a bad one adjournment to be moved, and here is another -if there is no check at all upon the power of six example of the same discretionary rwwer (ln the members-that is, the mover of the motion and part of the Speaker which i8 exactly on all-fours five members who support him-if there is no with the decision of our Speaker to-day. check at all upnn six members who wish to move Mr. LESINA : Finish the quotation. the adjourr.ment of the House and discu>s any matter, then there is no nRed of any rational The PRE::\IIEJ:t : It goes on- attempt to carry on business in this House. \Yhile motions for adjournment re~arding mattprs for OPPOSITION 1\lEMBERR : No, no! tbe di:scus;sion of whkh the Committee of Supply or other appointed bn~inc~s would afford au early oppor~ ;\lr. HAMILTON: That is a different varn to tunity have been ruled to be out of order. what yon had bst year. · The PREMIRR: It does nut matter who is in Is there any intelligent man in this House or office, if your deci::dnn, S-ir, js a had one then any out of it who does not see that, "ith exactly six members can n1ove the adjonrnrnent of the the same Standing OrJers ~s W<:: h:"ve b,~re, the House and discuss any matter within the Stand­ pnwtiee uf the Houoe of C' >m mons has been ing Orders whenever they please. followed by our Speaker this afternoon ? Mr. ~WooDs: Quite right, too. GoVERX>!ENT ME>IBERS : Hear, hor : The PHEMIER: They cctn do it every day if OPPOSITION i\IEo!BERS: No, no! they please. 'l'he Speaker must sit. he1plesc in The PHE:VIIER: The man who says" No" to the Chair, and he must see the business ob- that, I think, is beynnd reason. This is exactly 8tructed-pnrely obstructed-by six members, the reason that the Speaker g:tve. who can g-et up a di>cu,sion every day and pre­ vent bmine"s trom bt ing done at all. Mr. BLAm: It is not a cc.se in point at all. Interjections from OPPOSITION ~MEiiiBERS. ::\1r. HARDACRE: The circumstances are dif­ The SPEAKER: Order, order! ferent. The SECRETARY FOR MINES: You admit the The PREMIER: Tbis i' a matter which I Speaker has discretionary powers. think is much better di>cus;;ed without intPrjec· tions. Every member of this House has equal OPPOSITION :iY1Eli!BEltS : No. rights. Mr. AmEY: The Premier denied that last Mr. KENNA : You admit that ? year. Hon. W. Kidston.] 560 Motion for AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motion for AdJournment.

l\'Ir. HAliiiLTO~ : Read your own statement last you for that. \Ve are told, from the decision year. you have given, although you recognise, inferen­ J\Ir. MGRPHY: Quote the Secretary for Mines tially, the extreme urgency of the motion sub­ in 1901. mitted to you by the hon. member for Brisbane The PRENI:IER: No hon. gentleman has South, that you think an opportunity will be called in question the statement tbat the matter given to members for discussing that most for the discussion of which it has been sought urgent matter of public importance on a subse­ to move the adjournment of the Hou,e can be quent ocnsion. Now, it has been pomted out diRcussecl amply to-morrow on going into :Supply. by other hon. members that we have nothing to :ur. HAI(])ACRJ<;: Yes, that is questioned. vVe guide ns whereby we c-•n gnarantee that we are qum:;tion it. going to have an opportunity of discussing this matter at t1ll to~rnorrnw ·within reasonable The PRE::YHER: No one has questioned it. lilnih1, or ttt a re,'1sonahle hour. l\Ir. AmEY: Yes, I question it very much. OPPOSITIO~ }fg}JDERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. BO\nrAN: \Ve dispute anything y JU my. (Government bughter.) Mr. JE~KINSO~: We know that Rule 58 i'3 as follow." :- The PRE:\IIER: I. vonturc• to say that there The right is reserved to His 3Iaj~,~ty's l\:Iinisters to is not a Hingle Inentber of t~i~ fi0nse who re-dly place any uo1i~cs of motion or orders of the day, believe~ that his righto are being interfered with. whet her relatin~ to Government business or not, upon the business-paper in the rotation in 'vhich they desire JI!Ir. Jg~KINSO~: Yes; plenty of us. them to be taken on any days on which Government business has precedence. The PRK\ITSR: Then is no hon. member of this Hou'e, who horlf"'tlv believes that. [ chim That is the !:bmding Order under which the that, nn the contrary, !:o nullify yoor ruling, as Guvernment ·.vill he guided in placing the ques­ st>tted from the Srwaker in the ehair. all control tion of di,cnssing Supply before this Assembly, of proct.>dnre atll1 bn.-;ine:;s in the Hous~ is T_)Ut and it i, q11it" wichin the hounds of possibility into the hands of six memb~rs who c:w blvck tho.t that motion will not come before us for dis­ bn~if!.P~K at any rnmnent tht>y wish. I beli(~ve, cussion nntil a, la.te hqnr to-rnorrow Pveuing, and ~Ir. Sp~'tker, tha.t your dPci~ion is not only in to-n1orrow i..::: the last sitting day of the wedc. It acc·~rda,nce '.'-ith the con1lll('TI sense of thP itua~ i.-, propt~::;ed to-tnorrow, according to the business­ tion, l•nt (}or,-, nn invalidate the individual paper, to n1ov0 that thi::; Hons,; do adjourn for rights of 111e1nbers in thi.-: House in the ~lightf-..t nineteen da.ys, so what lJossible chance will hon. degree, Rnd it i..:, I have shown unmistakably, rnernbcrs haYe of di~cn~:-~ing it if the Government in accordanee with the practice in similar cases attempt to Lake up tha~ matter and place the in the l-Ionse of CJmmuns. order of bu.-;in':',,~_, iu such a \vny that we cannot diRCUSti thi~ rnatter until a late honr to-n1orrow 1\Tr. .TE:'\KIXSON (Fass,fcrn): The argu­ evenin:;. mPnt-. of ;:.he PrrnJiPr are uot only vuerile and i\Ir. HA~l!LTOX: Ha;·e the Government the trivial, but they show that be ba-; not the pn,yer? slightest knowledge nf whctt he is attempting to put b8fore :he Honse. :\Ir. JEC\KIKSOX: I arn not discussing the que-o:tion of wbether the (}overnntt-~'nt have the OrPOSITIOX ::'IIE~!BERS : He:u, hear ! po\V~r, tecan:;e I nnderstand that they have the :\fr. J1C'iKI:'\SON: It i., qnite a mual tbin;; power. Ttwy 111ay withdtaw the question of for tht; PrPn 1 ier, whenever he gpt:; beym~d a sub­ Supply. \Ve have no guamnte that it is going ject t.h;:.;,t, he 1\.110>\'S no(hing R.bor:;t, to go flounder­ to Lle 1Jlaced btfore us. ing ahout "'nd 1.tternpting to rn]..,lead lnt•rrtbers of OPPOSITIOX l\IE}fflERS: Hear, hear! the Honf=1~. fie se~-'IHS tn be afraid that the ruliug you lu,~,·e given thi~ afternoon i~ likely to leqd. to :\lr. J ENKI~SO~: To-morrow afternoon an immense r~mount of abuse. \Vhy shonld he will he devnted to privnte rnen1bers' buRine::~, think thn.t a, Standing· Or1if'r which has been in and con~equently we cannot ~ornrneuce a discus­ existenc no\Y in connect.ion with the AP3Pmbly Rion of anv Governrnent. bnsiness until after 7 for oYer twen~J :venr~, !l.nd h~~ never yet been o'clock in the evening. So that not onlv is our alHn:;ed, i::; lilv:ly to be abused at the pre-,ent time limited, but if the member" of thio House­ juncture, or at anv Rulm>"quent thne? He is whether they are cornuet•'nt to di.-cms it or 110t sin11Jlv ert•cLing an _._-\unt S;;tl~y in order that he has nothing to do with it-ther--, rue seHnty-one 1nay kn(J~k it do\vn, and hot\·e some apparently 1nembers in this Hou~e representing the various v did reaF:on f 1r .-;upporting the ruling you have constitnencies, and they have " perfect right, if t;iYen. they like, whether they have any kn->wledge of The SPJ<~AXER: Order! I think the hon. linance or not, to get up and speak on that ques­ ll1P.rnber will b~ spuaking much more in :1ccord tion, and nobody ean challenge th"t right. with th<: sl1irlt of a di .. cus~ion u~10Il the technical ?llr. LESINA: Hear, hear ! That is why we correctnes< or otherwise of the Speaker's ruling if want a definite motion before the Chamber to he refrains from >tttributing motives to the hon. deal with it. me1nber. GoVEHX~rE!\'T i\IDIDERS : Hear, hear! Mr. JENKINSON : I come tu this point: There is no doubt that we have an opportunity M:r ..JRNKT:0ISO:;\f : At the time you stonped of dicicussing g1 ievances before Supply 1s granted, me, Sir, I was referring to the fact th~t the Pre­ and this extremely important matter to every mier bad been attributing motives. taxpayer in the State is to be obscured by other 0PPOSI1'IOX ',IE1rBEHS: Hear, hear! matters which may be brought before this Cham­ ber. To my mind, therefore, it is absolutely Mr.• TBXKIXSON: And I was rebuking him necesstuy that there should be a definite and. a for doing sn. I was not attributing rnot-ives to concrete moLinn submitted, whereby we should anyone. (Opposition hear, hearB! and Go­ have full and free opportunity of discussing this vernment laughter.) I was just leading up to particular mat,er. Although I do not intend to the questinn of yonr ruling, and I atn very glad deal with the subject matter of the motion of indeed, although I was the humble instrurr.ent the hon. member f<>r Brisbane South, I would you used, that you have administered a rebuke point out that the urgency of the matter must be to the Premier for having imputed motives to apparent to every member in the House, because members on either side of the House. I thank it is not a party question. The questwn of fHon. W. Kidston. Motion for Adjournment. [4 AUGUST.] Motion for Adjournment. 561 adje1sting the finances &ffects every taxpayer this Chamber to-morrow evening, and you think in the Stat~:., and every repreeentative in this there will be sufficient time between the hours of Cha1nber, and surely the urgency i:;; 1)lainly 7 aud 10 o'c!ock--- appau'nt when the Premier hhnself nsking Mr. LESIXA: () o'c:ock in the morning. this House to whole of busi- ness the days! jn Mr.. JE:\KIXSON: Our ordinary hours of order hc that sitting-roHnwing \vhat ha:; been dof1e this ses~ notice on the sion-and I haYe no rea1~on for believing that cient to appeal to there i-s going to be n,ny altera,tion in that par­ Chamber. As hr.c; ticul8.t ru)e. I nr~derstand that you consider that the seo1or between the hour;; of 7 and 10 o'clock there will have ti1ne for teventy~onH njember.s to with rAgard I o this important htughtter.) The SPKAKER : l to say, if I may in~drrnpt the l1<:1n. rnen:ber, when I was briv- ing my ruling I intended to r<2ad the quotation Low '· 1\Ia,y ' 1 wh·lch was re~td by the Prmnier. Mr .•JENKlNSON: It was qnite irrelevant.

JYir. JENIClNSON: Yes, Sir.

B11rrcnvs offering to move the ad~ournment of the HOUS';:;, The

to in your WJsdr>m-and to support you-would have was out of order. I believe that would be natural conclw

House of Commons on the Hnhject, and it. order to deal with it, he is going to suspend the embodies the whole question in that one sentence whole of the busine,s of the country for nineteen from page 205 which I have 'lunted- days? Motions for adjournment regarding matters for the Mr. WHITE: Six sitting days. discussion or which the Committee of Supply or other Mr. JE:\KINSON: Nineteen days. The one· app0inted business '''ould afford an early opportunity man in Queensland who is running the Govern­ have been ruled to be out of order. ment of the country is going to suspend _the I therefore wish to point out to hon. n1embers whole of the business of this House for mne­ that the contention that I have been making a teen days, and I ask, in the name of all that is new departure in exerciRing this discrdion on the good and all that is true, is it reasonable to ask proposal to move the adjournment of the Hou"e us to discus that matter in three or four hours? is not really borne out by fttct,, I must apolo­ I cnntend that that is a limitation of speech gise to tb" hem. member for occupying so much which practically amount' to gagging members, time. who are to voice the opinions of their consti­ Mr. \VooDs: It is for the House to decide. tuents on this particular matter. It is nothing short of a scandal that be should prevent us Mr. JENKINSON : Personally I am thankful giving utterance to our views. 'fbe Premier that you, Sir, have thought it advisable to make should, without any intervention on your part, that lengthy Interpolation at this juncture. It Sir, give every opportunity for the discussion of is establishing a new practice that I am not at this important question. When the hon. menl­ all inclined to cavil at, and I am delighted that ber for Brisbane South asked certain questions­ it has pleased you to give the opinion of a pre­ on this snbject two or three weeks ago, the Pre­ vious Speaker in connection with this matter. mier should have realised the urgency of the But I would respectfully point out thaL it practi­ matter, and have taken the people into his con­ cally cuts the ground from under your own feet. fidence, and, if necessary, be should have got the OPPOSITION >VIEMBERS : Hear, hear ! opinions of membHrs of this House, so that he might go down to the Premiers' Conference with Mr. JENKINSON: Because you previously more confidence than he can do, if be is not admitted the urgency of this matter when you assured of tbe support of this House. gave your ruling on another point altogether. The ruling that you h"ve read to the House dealt The SPEAKER: Order! 1 hope the hun.. purely, simply, and only with matters of urgency, member will not continue that line of argument. which the Speaker himself decided were not of Mr. JENKINSON: No; I will not. I think sufficient public importance to be described as hem. members know that I have been laid up,. urgent. I do not think any member of this House, and that for a week or so pri<.r to going to bed no matter which side he sits on, but will sub­ my bearing was affected. \Vhen I stated the· scribe to the doctrine that the question that we other night that I was a little deaf, you, Sir, did want to discuss is of the most extreme public not seem to think th!>t I was telling the truth importance to the people of this State, It i• exactly. T therefore wish to explain now that absolutely urgent that the matter should be dis­ my hearing has been very defective since I have cussed at the earliest possible moment, and, if I been laid up. am within the limits of the Btanding Orders and The SPEAKER: I may tell the hon. member your ruling, if you will give me a few morr.ents that any doubt I may originally have felt on to show why I believe it is urgent, I think I the subject has now been entirely removed. will convince you, and, even if you felt inclined (Laughter.) at first to rule tht• motion out of orcler, I believe :Mr. JE::-IKINSON : Coming back to the yon will alter your decision. I will go on until question before the Hou~e. I honestly and sin· you say that I am out of order. cerely hope tb"'t there will be no necessity to The SPJr·, an 01lportnnity to th et there l\aye lJt-en f,t lea~t ~1:.""\'PU ,tbnrt.ive COTI~ iliscuss this qnr,Rtion 'vhen ~Hl ....\pvrnpri ~tion ference of Premit'l s, \\ onld it not havo been Bill is brou?hG dow~. ~c\..~_;·;_:dn I deRire tn pnintout, better to all11W Uktliber~ sufficient time to disR :md emphud.rnnnn will be en­ of councillorfi," sa-;·s the P.sa1niist, ''there is tirely given up to the di:~cu~sion r.f ltrintte n1emR widow," and if the bon. gentleman bacl heard bers' bn~iness, and that weco.unotatten1pt to touch t~e opinions of members on this great question anv GoYernn.lent hu, ines--l until :.ftex 7 o'c~ )Ck. he wonld. have gnne down to the conference Fo'il:nving the pnwtice which has been adopted better fortifL.l than he ii:i llO\V, by the House thiR ses-Lm, I presume we shall adjourn a.t 10 or 11 o'clock. If we adjourn at. 11 The SPEAKER: Orcler! I hope the hon. o'clock, that wil! al:cnv7 only fnnr hrmrs for t:w n1en1L;:>r '.vill ·uot continue on that line, Lnt that he wil! din:c'.:. his renwrJ...s to the tPchtJic"tl ques­ diocuSnbj,~e:? that tho>'e memb,'rs who have taken an intelli­ Do hon. rnelnhers honestly think that jc; 'uffi­ g<·nt, u.terest in tbe que'>tion of the tinancial cieut tirne forth~ di8cnssion of a matter which relations hetween the StateR and the Common­ the PrHnier cnn~ide!·s E-O important that, in wealth may submit their views on the matter, f!lnn . .T 7'. ReTl. _i_Wotion for .AdJournment. [4 AUGUST.] Motion for AdJournment. 563 and practically strengthen the hands of the the Premier will have to give some justification Premier when be goes to the conference. The for proposing it, and set out the reasons why he time at our di,posal to-morrow will be of such wants to adjourn. Hon. members know that an exceedingly limited nftture that it will be the Premier wishes to go to the conference at practically impossible for us to give our ideas Melbourne, and he will have to give a sufficient concretely on the subject, inasmuch as some reason for going there. members ara bound to introduce extraneous 1 Mr. \VOODS : I rise to a point of order. I matter. .V e cannot even pass a resolution want your ruling, Sir, as to whether the hon. to-morrow. No specific pr•Jposal can be gentleman is in order in discussing a question on made, Lecause we shall be subject to the Stand­ the busmess-paper of the House? ing Orders, under which the Premier and his followers can closd the debate at any particular The SPEAKEH : I understand that the hon. juncture. That is a point which is likely to be gentleman is pointing out that on a question on lost sight of. I trust that after all there will be the business-paper for to-morrow, in his opinion, no necessity to go to a vote on this motion, but an opportunity will be given for a discussion of that the Premier will see the ad visableness of the question which it is considered by certain carrying out the very reasonable suggestion of members should be di,cussed under a motion for the hon. member for Brisbane South, and give the adjourument of the House. I therefore con­ members an opportunity of discussing this most sider the hon. gentleman is in order. important question. Should the motion go to a GOVERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear! division, entertaining the opinions I have given utterance to, I shall feel impelled very regretfully The TREASURER: I am pointing out that, to vote in favour of the motion. in addition to the motion you speak of, as on the The TREASURER: 1\lr. Speaker,-! shall business-paper for to-morrow, there is a further certainly SU!Jport your ruling, aud I think the motion on the paper to-day, which will come on sense of the House will be with me when we go immediately this present discussion is ended, to a division. I think you have acted entirely which will give full opportunity for members to within your rights in ruling in the way you have say whether or not the Premier is entitled to go done. to the Melbourne conference. Mr. KER!l: He did not give a rulin!l'. Mr. MuRPHY : That is not the question. The TREASURER: If the Speaker did not The TREASURER : In order to get that give a ruling, why did the hon. member for Bris­ motion through this House, he will have to give bane Snuth move that the House di,agree with his reasons which will justify thiS House in voting ruling? There are two grounds upon which a him the right to go there. motion for the adjournment of the House can be Mr. MANN: Order, order! disallowed. :First of all it can be disallowed Mr. MuRPHY: The reason he will give is that upon the ground that it is not made to discuss a he has a majority of one. (Opposition laughter.) "definite matter of public importance." You, Sir, are not in any way stating th perfectly en­ Premier. titled to rule a~ you did. You said that bun. mem­ .Mr. :YicHPHY: You will want to adjourn at 10 bPr.s \VonJd ha\'e an opportunity to-morrow on the o'clock. Appropriation Bill of di,cussing tbe question uf Several HoxOURABLE J'viE}!BERS interjecting, the financial relations between th8 Common­ The SPEAKER: Order, order! wealth and the States. I Wo>nld point out that in addition to that they well have ample oppor­ The TRJ<:AS1:rRER: I think you, Sir, h"'·e tunitv to discu~ i the matter on the mntion w hi eh acted entirely within your discretL:m, and your is cc,ming- on as soon ~s this rnatter i~ disposed of. discretion has been rightly exercised, and I ;hall certainly support your ruling. :\Ir. lifcRPHY: Will you guarantee that? The TREASURER : The Premier has a i\Ir. BO\DIAN: \V e could not expect anythi1og motion on the !Japer whJCh reads- else from you. That the Hmr,P, on its risin~ at the termination of the Mr. MANN: It is always a matter of regret sitting a)JPOinted foe Thursd:-ty, the 5tu iu~tant, do when a Speaker's ruling is di,agreed to, and I adjourn until 1 ntsday, the 2Jtb instant. should feel a good deal of reluctance in voting In order to get that motion through the House for the motion moved by the junior member for Mr. M ann.] 564 Motion for AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motion for AdJournment.

South Brisbane, unless I was clearly of the who knew how urgent the matter was, and opinion that he was right in challenging your I convinced five members on this side of the ruling. To r~ Speaker who has the confidence of House that my case wl.ts an urgent one, and in the House, [ think it would seldom or never that case, the Speaker said he would allow me to arise durill[( his tenure of office, that hi8 ruling move the adj:oumment of the House. Fortu­ should bE- c.lallenged. But I can quite imagine nately I had not to do so, becau.se, owing to a Speaker ;a the House being a mere,tPol in the pressure b::ing brought to bear, the Treasurtr hands of the Government. He may give his yielded, and grc>nted that loan. ruling at the dictation of the Government, and Mr. MAXWELL: You did not know it had under those circumstances I think the House, in been granted. order to preserve privileges, would be well its Mr. MANN : I went to the Treasurer and advised to challenge hi8 ruling on every occasion in which they thought it was given ut the dicta­ told him distinctly that if the loo,n was not tion of the Government. I do not wish to granted the adjournment of the House would be insinuate for one moment that you, Sir, are moved. doing so in this House, but when I heard Mr. MAXWEU : That will do. the arguments advanced to-night from the fcont 'rhe SPEAKER Order, order ! Treasury bench, favour of upholding your Mr. MANN: If, as the Premier has claimed ruling, I had to that I never be: House ti1e right of free alleged that rrction:-:. 'rhe Go* had last immigration, House " tbe disappro- were known <:tnd a. uestion to

this to riiscu~s thr~se you (jUoled some [5·30 p.m.] your predece,sor in 1'\ir Morgan. I ad- carrying on a nn1•nr.selless mit that on one occa,ion he refu,;ed to allow the House. hon. 1nen1ber for Lockyer to rnove the adj,Jurn~ I have nu reason to think tbat the Premier was ment; and I will qth;te the reaEon he gave. less acute in his judgment last year than he is This will be found on rncge 17$JG of Hcmsard for this year. The position has changed. At that 1901- tin1e, to suit the purpose of his argument, he The SPEAKER: I beg to to the House that alleged that six members at any time could move I have received i.he follovving letter the hOlJ. mem- the adjournment of the House. I am inclined ber for Lockyer to think that the Premier was right. That six 7th November, 1901. The Honourable Art bur ~Im·ga.n, members at any tirue, if an hon. rnembrr can Speaker's Rooms, Parliament House. convince five other members that the matter he is bringing before the House is one of urgent Mr. SPEAKER, public business, then this House should be I beg to give you l10tice that it is intention adjourned to allow nf urgent public bnsinees to, on \:Yednesday, 1i5th Xovernber, move adjourn- that ment of the House upon a definite matter of urgent being discussed. You, J'vir. Speaker, may claim public importance, namely-'l'he action of the Lands that the Speaker should be the judge of every­ Depnrtment ~ not ruled to that effect this afternoon. I or form to be unruly when I have no reason to thin~ the reason you gave for refusing to allow dis­ be so. cus~JOn was,_ that we would have ample oppor­ OPPOSITIO~ ME}lBEilS' Hear, h"ar l tunity to d1.scnss the matter on a 1nntion to suspend the Standing Orders to go into Com­ Mr. MAN;:\: But if I think I have jnst rea­ mittee of Snrpiy.. I think that you, as well as son to go against your ruling, whatever rr1ay be every other mtelhgent membet·, will admit that the consequence, I will have no hesitution in doing so. fair af~ernoon, the liiO':>t _Hnpor.tant public que~;tion ~t the You have bean this prFsent tnne Is the adjustment of the aml I intend to ob,erve y<>ur ruling and keep as financittl relations between the Common­ closely as I cm to the qutction. If the Premier's wealth "nd the States ; and, as an old ruling that he attempted to give thi'l afternoon member of this Hon.;e, it will be within was correct-th(tt if six members of this House your n1ernory that often on the 111otion to sus­ were allowed to get up and moYe the adjqurn­ p_end the Standing Orders to allow an Appropria­ ment of the House no bu~inrss could be done, tiOn Bill to go tlu o·.:gh all its stages ;., 0'18 day, and a vigilant and active Oppositiun would, each and every member may ventilate little every sitoing d"y, get up and move the adjourn­ parochial grievances. And if the Government ment of the Honse in nrcler to obstruct Govern­ do not wish to hf ar anything said on the finan­ ment business. Now, I claim that though this cial relation.< between the Commonwealth and Opposition is active enough- wP havA been the States, they may agree with their supp~rters blamed by the morning· IJress with b ·ing malig­ :yo1J. to get u~' and tai!r at inordinate lergth, over any nant-I ask t,o cast yonr memory back nver petty gnevancP, m order· to prevent f11'l discus­ last session and this ~Gss:ion, and Ask yourself if sio'! on the most imp•Jrtant q 11estion of the day. 've liave availed ourselvPo;; of th~ privi!Pge of It 1s well known that there are only a few rnO\·intr the adjournment of the House. It was men1ter.s who can discns.s the questiOn in the moved 011ly upnn two occasion:-:. way it ?ught to br's remarks have not.hing to do CI~ms J)a~:;:wd on nim by the jnni1lr men1ber for with the question before the House. Sonth Bnsbane while discu.•··-ing the no confid­ Mr. MAJ'\X: I am pointing out that we have ence motion, the Government do not want this in no way unduly hampered Government busi­ m~tte~ brought forword. And if we had " pro­ n' e' by moving the adjournment of the House. mrse '!Ignetl by yourself and the Premier that we That has been done only upon two occasions­ would have an opportunity ,,f discnssino- this upon rnre occasions-and you must admit that matter on the motion for tbe st1spension Zf the upon thic~ C'Ccasinn the matter hM been a very Standing Orders:, we have lli) guarantee that urgent one, and I need only refer you to the fact me1.noers on the other side will n0t speak at in­ that your predecessor thought that e\·en when ordmate length until the time for reporting is the expiry of the Braddon clause was twelve past,, _and the:> the debate on this most impor'ant months further off than it is now, tlnt it was of flUt?Stton would not appH:lr in HrJ,nsard or in the sutficient importance to a11ow the hem. member daily Press, and people outsicle would have for South Bri,-bonf' to move the adjournment of no oppor_tunity of seeing what policy the the Houce But certnin quotations have been given this even­ ~f you were .to withdraw your 1·nling and u~e your ing in this Hon.'e in which it was attempted to mfluence wrth the Prrmit'r to allow a day to be shnw that in the HmBe of Cmmnon'' the St,eaker set asrde to discuss the matter in all its bearings. is the judge of the matter of urgency. I would {Gon'nlln~~nt laughter.) just like to show that that is not >O, and the <(uotntion I shall give is one given by a late 0PPOSITIOX ::\lE>IBEHS : Hear, hear ! Speaker, Sir Alfred Uowley, a man whose know­ The SPEAKER: I hope the hon. member ledge of the Standing Orders I sc::trcely think will keep entirely to the te0hnical aspect of the anyone will question, ftnd he gave thiR quotation question before tl:e House. during a debate in 1001. You will find this on page lSOO of Jiansard for 1901, in Sir Alfred :\fr. :\I AT\ X: I am keeping to the question as Cowley's sprech. He ''aid- ?tosely ~~ I cn.n, :\fr. S12~nker. _Though I called Tllere 1vas another sug-gestion, that a mujority of the Order three or four t1n1es wln1e thP- Treasurer Hon~e should decide it, antl also fixing the number of was ,...peaking, he went on dea1in!5 with rnod;ters memhPr~ reqnired to form a. quorum »Bd not a11 nbso .. that had n0 ben ring on th8 qtle;;;~,inn; and if one lnte majority of the House; bnt both those snggf'~tions member i' allowed t" strav aw:.v it tends to were ab:mtloued. and the practic,, "\Vas adopted of encourage other metnbers do same thing. placing absolutely nnd•nnconditionally in the bands of tO t}~~ fortY m em hers of the Ilonse of Commons the right to I have alwa.y:-; ~.tnck up in thiR If(mse for bein-g say '"het her a question wns :m nTgent one or \Vlwther allowed to clo ex;wtly as any other member has it was not,, 'fhat Stan11ing Order was ])2-'ilREr'l. in lbe been allowed to d''· Honse of Commons in 188~, and from 1882 right on through fL series of ;p-'ars tlmt practice was ab~olutely The SPEAKER: Tbe TreasUJer, whe!her adopted and. follmYed without any varintion. Even as C'Jrrect or nnt in his interpreta'ion of the t:ltand­ late ,l'-' 15398, in the Honse of ('ommons, and on several ing. Order, did not say anything that was not occasions sin<'f', tbat 1vas the llrocedurc. On 3rtl Jiarch, entu".Iy apr·opos of the point nf order. 1893, l\Ir. Russe~l, member for t:;outh 'ryrone, rose iu his viacc- I\Ir. :\IAN:'J: I was listening very carefully to " and a:-:,ked lcnxe to move the adjournment of the the Treasurer; and you will purdon me for saying House for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent that, if my ears did not decei re me, he devoted public i.rr,portance . . . . . Mr. Mann.] 566 Motion for .Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motion 'for .Adjournment.

"Mr. SPEAKER called on those members who sup­ motion and entirely defeat any discussion UJ"On ported the motion to rise in their places, and not less than forty members having accordingly risen, an important matter such as this. They might apply the •• gag'' and "guillotine" to-morrow. ":\·Tr. SEXTON: On a point of order, I \Yish to ask whethe1·, h::tving regard to the statement or the learned We can get no assurancE' from the Speaker that judge cited in the House to-day, that the nrnount or they will not do so. crime in Co::mty Clare during the last year was less Mr. KERR: They are going to do it all right. than in the preceding year, and having regard also to the statement . . . . this is such a 'definite Mr. MAXN: It lies with fhe Speaker to say matter of .mblic importance' as can be properly dis­ whether a matter has been sufficiently discussed. cussed on ~motion for the adjournment of the House.'' :Members can understand that no Speaker will This was the Speaker's reply. Now, mark want to remain longer th:>u he pr ssihly can in this- the chair, "'"cl the Spr>aker may be guided by his If ~'fr. RPEAKER: That is a nutttPr which is entirely own physical di-comfort when he is deciding within tlle discretion of hon. members who may choose whether the question has been sufficiently dis­ to support the hon. membm '::; proposa18." cussed ; and, "'' he may wish tu get out of the That is how it is laid down clearly in the House chair, he may decide thnt the m MEMBER: There are not forty :\Ir. HARDACRE (Leichhardt): I believe followers of this Government. (Laughter.) that in matters concermng the Standing Mr. JENKINSON: There are 600 members in Orders of this Horusc, members should rise the House of Commons. above all party c-Onsiderations. Mr. MANN: Y cs ;. 672 members. As it is Or POSITION .iY1E:UBERS: Hettr. hear! utterly impo5Bible to get forty members in this House to snpport such a nwtion, it is wise to Mr. HARD ACHE: No matter what side of limit the number who h"'ve to rise in their seats the House we are on, or however it may to five. To my mind it is perfectly clear that in affect the intsts between yourself and the five mem?ers of not an urgent one. That is not the point. this House who rose in their places w1th re­ Mr. ;\fANl'\ : I know that the Speaker did gard to the bringing for:varcl of '!- motion for not ~ay that this CRse was not an urgent one. adjournment on what tlley consider matters He said it was an urgent one, but he refused of urgent public importance. This seems to allow the adjournment for the reason, he to me to exclude the two reasons laid says, that we have plenty of time to discuss it down, one by the Premier and one by the to-morrow, and he arrogates to himself in this Treasurer. The Premier said that if we allow case the right to say whether it is urgent or not. five members to rise in their places and move He says that it is urgent, but not Bufficiently the adjournment it would lead t-a chaos. urgent to discuss it to-day, but you can discuss l\Ir. ArREY: It never has done in this House. it to-morrow. Mr. AIREY: He fixes the date of the urgency. :\Jr. HARDACRE: That is not the ques­ tion. I admit it never has, but whether it Mr. MANN: If he gives this House a would or not, our Standing Orders give the five guarantee that we can discuss it to-morrow, members the right t-a rise in their places.. It then I do not think thRt I will c"'vil ac his is clear that private members have the nght decision. But the order of the business Ji~g with to rise in the House and movG the adjourn­ the Minister, and the Speaker has no control ment of the House, even though it means over the business-papAr, and so, to-morrow, the the delay of Government business. I think a Government may come clown with some other perfectly good reason has also been made [Mr Mann. Motion for LldJouJ•nment. [4 At:GUST.] Motion for Adjournment. 567

'1l.pparent, that it would not be in the in­ day for discussion of this matter after to-day terests of the public to allow a majority of the if we decide to adjourn to-morrow for three Government to prevent a matter of urgent weeks. public importance being raised for discu"sion The SECRETARY FOR ~liKES: The motion is in this House. As has been laid do;, n on that the House discuss the financial relations one occasion, it might be the question of the between the States and the Commonwealth. reprieve of a man condemned tc be hanged, a.nd some Government majority might prevent Mr. HARDACRE: That is not the motion its discu'.,ion, if we allowed the Premier's of the hon. member for Brisbane South. The reason to be arlmitted as a good reason that question is not that we discuss the financial five members should not have the right to relatior:s-th€ qtwstion is that we have a. sepa­ move such motions by risin7 in their places. rate day for discussing the financial question. The Hon. the Treasurer said tha.t we haYe this Mr. JENKINSON: The urgency of fixing a afternoon, on the motion already announced da.y. by the Premier, to move the adjournment, to Mr. HARDACRE: Yes;.and the whole ob­ ·discuss this question, but I would like to call ject behind that motion has rderence to the attention to the words of the re elution. Th •.et aside a sopa.raie day by resolving declLI£ to put the motion, because it would antic\patc that the House adjourn for three weeks. If an announcement of which notict~ had been given, we reSe to-day. rhere IS If the present circumstances were on all-fours not an opportunity for discuoiing this matter. with the circumstances laid down in ":!\lay," ;\1r. HAMILTON: N'o time to discuss anything I would agree with your ruling. at all to-morrow. Mr. J ENKINSOK: They are not anal060Us. Mr. IIARDACRE: There will be no time. Mr. HARDACRE.: The whole question, to Mr. BowMAN: \Vhy shouid he go, any way? my mind, is a question of fact---,Jwther to­ Mr. HARD ACRE: For these reasons I shall morrow we have an early opportunity of dis­ have to vot8 for ihe motion that your ruling cussing this matter. \Ve have not even had this be disagreed with. motion discussed. because the motion is that the House be adjourned for the purpose of Mr. COY?\E (Warrego): I desire to give, in urginf{ the nece ,sity of setting· apart a sepa­ as few w0rds as I can, n1y reasons rate clay for the discussion of the financial [7 p.m.] for Yoting against your ruling, relations between the State and the CJmm

attention of all the Premiers in the Common­ your ruling, Sir. It would be far better if WAalth for the pa ,[ nine years, so that it can­ the House could carry on amicably with the not be expected that it can be dealt with in a Spnaker, in·)toad of h:tving to disagree with sensible manner, and that the House can come his ruli11gs; but we know that, if an hon. to. a ;:...:_.n -.ible conclusion, on an Appropriation member thinks himself ag"neved by a clcci­ BtlL It cannot be adequately discussed unless siou of the Spc~lccr, he, is justly entitled to a CGi cain time is set apart bv the House for moYe that hi,, ruling be dioagreed with, and its discussion. I haY€ heard various authorities test the feelirw of the House on the matter. quoted, and, after listening to those authori­ I ara Yery sor~y that the occ.l.sion has arisen tieo, I have come to tho conclusion that your for puUi11g us to thi', t''st. However, I con­ ruli11g was not a. good one, and that it \Vas scicutiously bolicYe that your ruling is wrong, not in accordance with pro, cclent. V>o have and that it ,, ould be establishing- n bad pre­ pr'-'c ..:dents of our own to ~-ovcru the actions ccclrnt if we unhold it, anrl for that reason I of the Speaker on ,'uch matt<'rs as th;s, and intend to .-ote 'for the motion moved by the I think you have go:Je agaimt the rulings hon. nlCntbor for Brisbane South. given on preYious occa~io11s. The 'l,rcaFurer Mr. FORSYTH (Jio1'•lcn): Personally, I quohd some aLtthorities for your guidance, seo no rea'.'Jn .,8h ,' we t..tnnot discuss the Sir, but I do not think they ''ill guide you question of Federal end Scate finance on the vory n1uch, bt ··;au·:.. ·, although he rrmv have propos8cl adjournrn nt of the House till the dBlvod dc{'p dm.n in~,o the recesses of t, :\fay" 24th instant, \Y c o.ll know that the Pr0mier for thorn, they do nnt apply, as we have pre­ prvpo?:e·~ to go to the Pr-ciniBr::.' Conference­ cedents of our own to guide us, and all these to protect H.e intemsts of this State as far as things are COYL reel by our Standing Orders, possible, and the wlwlo qeestion of the rela­ 'fhe authorities quotrmncnt may fold their regardecl, and ncith0r \s thP motion proposed arms. say nG~hing, u_cl Inake absolutely no by tho hon. n1cmber for Brisb1nc ~outh an attempt to take the businu,s out of the hands proposaL of the Governmcn:. On the other hand, it was :'Ir, FOHSYTH: The hon. member knows intended to a'-;:-;i:,t the Govcrn1nent--to assist as '''ell as I do that when the qu<'stion IS the> Prn1e roason for that proposal. Mr. COYl-JR: No. If the matter is deferred until to-morrow, we shall han' two or three ThP Pn1 :'1-IIE:t~: In any case that won't pro~ Yent the Opposition expressing their views. motions crowcl<:'d 011 top of each other, and it will be in1pOHib1c to discuf.:s the question in a ::\1r. Fom:;YTH: 2\o, it will not. When scnsiblu rnanncr. I disagree 1vlth the bon. reasons are given for tho proposed adjourn­ membLr for I cichh::1rclt in one thing. I under­ ment, the rhole question will be raised, and stood the hon, member to eav that ho thov::;ht it can bo fullv disc 1uod. At anv ratP. I kno\..­ it was the ccr-rcc1; thing to \~C' ~ p011 .- r in 1h} of no StanJ~~lg' Order which ,,~oulcl preclude hands of tho Spf•aLC'r to say 1'.-h{1 thcr a rnattcr any rncn1bcr £fon1 discub-;lng it. Under these is or i,- not. one of urgont public ir11portanr'~· I circun1 .tanc?s, l t.hink the hon. ill(lnbcr for do not. think it woulrl be \Vi;,t? to YPst such a l3ri~bano 8outh v,,)u]d be wise if he ,vithdrew po\vcr in th hands of an:v Speaker. \V c can his rnntion, an cl allo\Yed the bu ~,ine ,s to pro­ 1 take a ca~e li P thj,;;;: Ill thi.s J-Iou-"-- there aro ccccl, becaus' as f'oon as .it i> disposed of wo so many political shufrlc J that o:lC' neyer shall ha :c ,, motion · ubmitted on which he knows 1 ~·hc) 1vill L:_• in the Sp( tker: chajr in can di 2ms the LJLW lion of Federal and Stato a short time. \Ve "'ill ·av that there is a financ{;s '\Ve have no\v been talking from genHral election in a. n1-onFh or a couple of half-p1"t 3 till a quarter past I o'clock, and it monthA, and that, v hen the fiou.sc n1ects is about tin;c that we proc-~eded wilh busineDs. again, some other n em her is appointed to If I atu rong .in my opinion that the question fill the chair. He may ln vc been a :\lil,i,ter, of th,_· fly l.H(:ial relat-ions between tho States a.s you rcccEtly \\'01'< : e:nd, if this power \Y(~re vested in the ho.nch of tlt0 Sp,·akcr, he vvoulG and lhe Co-,mom\2alth ca,n be discu"cd on th<:' motion of which the Premier ha" given bo al--·lc to refu d? to a 1:ow Unv n1erDber, or an; ~~x n1eml ,,rs, to discuss tl~e ma.la.dminis~ notice, I shall bo glad £m' any hon. member to tration of the department lw had j·,st lf'ft. corr-ect me. So you S{'·e -,·hat a Yery vicious an(_l d2.... n~"erous ~VJ:r, :\HTCHELL (.1lr;J'ybor011(!h): A pro­ power it vvonlcl place~ in thE_' hands of a no~al to disan-ree with tho Speaker's ruling Speaker. I do not kno1· 0f anv au~hori-tv nr ~s one that denmnds the graYC'st con:.oidera~ of any Standi:J,<, Order of th;," Honce Dr of tion. bnt I am vcrv c,•rtain that the hon. the Ho1.:·-e of Con1n1o11 vvhlch uin"s such a rne1nber for Bri:-~anC 8onth \vould not have power to the 8·1l•aker. So far as~ I have boPn propose:] hi, motion unles, he f<'lt justified able to discover--and I havE' lookc,l into the in doi~~'1" ~0. r_rhe hon. DVJlnber for ~foreton has matter~such a power is not vesh:•d in the tried t~ iGdnce meml1ers to di cuss the very Speaker of am Parliament, in the British important matter of the financial re!Dtions Dominions, and I hope it will bo a long Jime br twecn the States and the Commonwealth bdore su~h a power is so vested. I regret on the :notion that is likelv to come on after very much the ne,eossity for disagreeing with this matter is disposed of. · I understand that [Mr. Ooyne. Motion for Adjournment. [4 Al'GUST.] II!Iotion for AdJournment. 56(} it is the desire of the hon. member for Bris­ been stated, v, 2 hav-e had seven or eight con­ bane South that we should not discuss such foronc 'S, and very little h_,s resul~ed thal has an important n1atto?r in a df'stdtory rnannc':', been of any special permanent bcn<'fit. \Vo but that we should be prepared to bring it have had the financial relationship l,•tvveen to some concrete "o that the Premier, the Sta.t-es a.nd the CDnlmon'--.,.;alth discussed or anyone who may sel(;ctcd to repre~~?nt from aJl standpoint,,, hut it has a1wa.ys t-'en Quec- n_,land at the Prc nicr-' Conference will such a desultory c]i ...eussion that there ]1,~ ._been no~ ?nly nprc;sL'nt hi~ own opinions, bu't. the yory little concrete work done-work that cm oprmons of l no Parha_,JOnt of Queenslancl. be trr.ken an eviclence of the car{':ul n;a.nner For th.tt re·son he suggested that a dav in which 1natier has toen considered he fore should be set apart for the discussion of th;, the Prcrr1iers n1et. matter. You. Sir, ag-roecl that the matter The SPEAKER: Order! I should like the was urgent, but ·'·.id th·,_t it migl-:t be dis­ hon. nwmber ~hov,r Y\ ha.t hi--L ren1a..Tks ha Ye cussed to-morrow. Tho very same objection to pr· cisely to do with tho particular quo:otion appla's to that coursB as I have iiJc1icated ! f'fore the Homo-the question thnt my rulinc; with regard to tLe proposal of the hon. member for :Morcton--nameh-. that such a bE di d~£reed to. discu~sion \Yould be r1osult,or\'. and that at :0lr. :'JlTC11ELL: 1n referring to the ques­ the enc! 9£ it: it woui.d b~ imPossible to gain tion tha.t your ruling be disa.grced to, I think any d,·hmte mfor:rcatwn that would be avail­ 1he reascn that you gave for your ruling­ able for the go ntleman who is to represent tha.t vou rcfuood to allm,· the motion to go Quf-1 ~~·:nsland at the conLrQnCP The Prmnier l'+_·ior~ the lion~·· notwith~t...J..nclin.~· \\.G con­ referred Lo the corrunon-senso viaw of this sidered the ur:,encv of it, aml also its im­ matter. If ,,-e look a~ precedents we o.hall port··.nce, was that· it might be discussed to­ find that they arc not at all tim~s ex;ctlv m,...Trow. If we tak-e ~-}-n1ortDY:, '"hat does it ':Yhat vve \\.tnL \Vc arc hero as mcn1bcrs 0£ ITlf'"Ln? Suppos·e we take this eye;ling. Ta.ke Parliarnent discnssing a matt'-r in connection thD crdinary sittings of the House for this vvith <:'" cornpara.tivoly new State, anU \YO ~xant session: 'Vo ha.Ye adjounHJd a. few minutes to btn!d up ;Jrcccdcnt-, of our own. \Ye want after 10 o'clock. buppme we taJw up till a to feel that '> D aro rc~p!:;:nsibk., for th0 action fe\v minutes after 10 {/clock to-night to dis­ we take in mat.t_ rs of this kincl. and, if we cuH the motion for the adjournment of tho take the connnon-<.:<;nse YiCIY of thiJ rnatter, ]Jouso for ei~hte-cn or nineteen days, ''-'e shall we shall find tint WD aro jmtified in opposing discuss that for fnur hours to-ni~ht, +hen we your ruhng, brcau.se, nob:vith~tanding the have only four hours to*mor-row. That is statement of th,, Premier that there is a eio·ht hours that we ha,-e left befcw the ad­ pos.-;;ibility of six ITIC'In}1crs taking control of jz.'UrnnH:'nt. TLat is a r-easonable' view to take the Hous,•, .ar,cc1 forcing motions throu:;h the oi the rnattcr, be -_a use that i~ the tirnc occu­ H~us~, I ~hn! the con1n1on scn~_,u which pre­ pied each cycnin.L, durin:.., the pn ,..::>nt s·cssion. vmls m thrs House would at all times prevent Say c'wh member of the !Iouse wanted to say anything of th~t kind oc·curring. \\.,e have s,nnethi110" on the ri:-.-ht of the GoYernrncnt to never had an 111:-::itance of anv matter being adjourn the Ilou- c ~for ci chtccn or nineteen brought before the House and cli-.cJssod in a davs: then I understand that there IS a pro­ ~aurw_r vvhich \V~s disparag.ing to the House. po~al to bring forward a Bill a:-:ikint:., for J..JOrncbrr1es 1nen10( re on the other side, and Supply. If "e talm thc,e two motions and occasionally n1crnbcrs on this side, have divide then into se'.renry*ono portions, "\Vha.t engaged in a kind of guerilla w.ufare: but, tin1e 1vill there be for discussion on those takmg the House as a wholr we shall find n1atters without introducing a su\)ject 01. such th.at in ih pror ;:;ediugs it be~rs co~nrarison importance a- the financial relations betwe-en w1th ahnost any other IIm.-4-:': in the Coinrnon­ the Cornmomc callh and the States. I think wcalth. If ~- " submit to yuur ruling without the rea' on giyen y. a., ~o weak that it is im­ P.roh'"j.', 1t sn11pl: rnean.s t.hat. at sorue future possil~le for this 1-Iouse to a"~cept it as one su~­ tnno .~"")l11e Sp< J.k'•.r, perhaps not. yourself, 1nay cientl\ CDJn·irJcin,~· to -enable thmn to srt tu1:n up your ruhng, and quote it as a pre­ quiet:~y and r ,,;pt your ruling. I will be cectent, _·Jnd so prevent us brjnging forward con1pcll0d, froHl ihe , :;.,y in which I ~0?~ at some nlattcr equally as irnnortaf1t as the the n1a.. ttcr, when it d{ rs come to a d1YI~·1on, matt.or the hon. member for Brisl·.anc South to he with tho:. ·who ar-· votin'): ngainst your wishe3 to di~cu~,'·. I am sure that thE' Premier, ruling. Th-ert: ar-c one or h' o other things I and mnst mrn1lwrs on that sicb of the House w-ould like to haYe said. but "·et::ing :you arG will agre(; \'~·ith L,2- vvh011 I ject~which is no 111ore unpor·tant QlK·"'t.on cm~\_1 be brought quite the prJpDr thin~:: I do not wish to depart before tho House than that of (.he financial from that nrinciplc at all-it will he necessary relations betweGn the Common caJ+h and the for n1o to ;..bstain fro1n makin~>, any r-2£-er,-,nces St<:1tc·c. \/'le are reaching now a point-- to those matters l.mt to simply say that 1 must oLject to your ru1ing. The SPEAKER: Order ! I hope the hon. menJ-,c'' --ill not pur,cne th. t lino of argu­ IITI'. Alt:\!STR-0-;\;G (J:or'cy r;: This C[Ueo­ ment, but that he will confine himself to the tion has l c2onTc son1ewha.t cloudr(l. I have, question befe>r;' tlw House. as you know, and hon. members who have dis­ cc,,sed the questicn will se0, from the T-ee .rds :\Ir. J'vliTGiiELL: I merelv wish to sav that this Hon'"• that I have taken a- very ~·reat we are novv reaching a ~point \vhc1~ the in the qucstiou as to wbether the problem of the Commonw<. lth and State Speaker has the right to be the onl:· one tv finances must be >Ooh-ed, and l think memlcers scty rnai.tcrs a.rc of ur'")<:m.t puLlic iruportance­ are quite jlur~ifiLd in a;:.·kinr that ·vye should or not. But y 'Ur ruling t.his afternoon places ~avc an opport mity of cliscu:~ ,ing the HlLH(T that ma.ttcr cutircly on one sid "'· You ha.Yo 111 such a manner as 1vill ena.b1e us to arri~;e uot taken up a position of dictc.tin2: to this at so::..ile concrete. conclusion _resp-rcting· what 1 Iioui3e as to whc-t'hcr this is a question of should 1-~ ctone at the Premwr,' C'-mference. urgent public irnportauz._e or not. lf we do not do thaf, it does not matt

Mr. ARMSTROJ';"G: l'IENT ;\fEliiBERS: Shame, shame! any Speaker to arro<~ate to him,elf, th~ soln he was going a long way rea8'}n I ask hon. members, noC only on the l7. 30 p. m.] further outside the bounds of the other side, but on this side-- question than I have gone; and I Mr. 1\IGRPRY: Shall we have a guarantee think it was distinctly ungPnerous of him to of that opportunity? That is the question. raise a. point of order when I was, as you say, dangerously nPar the boundary line. Having Mr. ARMS'l'RONG: Ko. You have only been in this House a considerable number of the faith of your Parliament here and the :-;·ea.r;, I may be permitted to say that this good '3nse of your Parliament to ~upport it. epidemic of ahme from one side to the other That is all you ha Ye, and is all that any tnat ha~ been manif,),t. during the last five legislative body eHr has. weeks is something which every member l\lr. HARDACRb: interjected. should deplore. (liear, hear!) If we have anything to SfltJ, why not say it without in­ ;\fr. ARMSTUOKG: When he does that sort dulging in personal abuse 9 (Hear, hear!) of thing, he will get his answer from this Coming agai!I to this question, I believe you House. But at the pre,ent at any rate. that are right in your ruling, and for the reason ig not the question we have to decide. I am I have given I intend to support that ruling. one with eYery hon. member of this Ho•1se \Ve shall have an opportunity of discussing who would like to 'e" a full and extensive the quesLwn, etnd we can then say anythmg discussion on this qu, but to Queensland generally. On that mat~r is this: \Nil! any discussion that we occasion the Speaker refused to allow the may have 'in this Chamber at the present time motion to be moved, because he considered -will it have any force? it \\us not a matter of urgent public import­ ance. On this occasion vou have admitted Mr. AIREY: Why send a man down there? that it is a matter of urgent public import- [Mr. Armstrong. Motion fo1• Adjournment. [4 AUGl"ST.] Motion .for A~journment. 571

ance, Mr. Speaker, but you refused to allow Mr. J\IURPHY: On that occasiOn the the motion to be moved because the junior Speaker refused to con"idor it was a matter member for Brisbane South would have an of urgent public importance. opportunity to-morrow of discussing the ques­ The PREMIER: You are now blockin <; dis­ tion as to the financial relations between the States and the Commonwealth. In 1901, when cussion on the question. the matt:r . was b. ing considered, you took Mr. J;IURPHY: The hon. member for a stand similar to that ,,-hich vou have taken Lockyer would be justified and consistent if to-day. You supported :'IIr. niorgan's ruling; he voted in favour of the motion for disagree­ and I propose to read an extract from vour ing with the Speaker's ruling. For that speech on that occasion- ' motion I intend to vote. The Secretary for Min< s this evening, by interjection, asked.who .:\fr. BELT.J (Dalb!!) : I agree with the last speaker that a matter ?f this kind is purely one of procednre, and really had the right to say whether a matter may be_discus~ed in a ::-plrit which recognl~es th:tt pro­ was of nrgcnt public importance. If it were eed~re IR above party mfinene'-\ and that the particular not the Speaker, he interject-ed, what necessity merits of the motion which is the Rubjt<;Jt of discu.ssion was there to send the Speaker a letter notify­ sll~nld ~at. en~er into the ttn ~-stion as to whether your rulmg, S1r, Is right or wrOIJ,I:. In 1c;:ard to the hon. ing him of one's intention to move the member's general conteution on the merits of your adjournment of the House? I looked up rulin~, I 1~1ns.t eoufess thHt. I find my1-elf in the position H an inherent right to refuse a 1n any tra(htiOnal 1-)rocedure, has li~tndcd over to a motion which is nnbecJmingly 'vorcled, m which is on 1 small s~C'tio? of i.t~ members the in :et·pr~tatwn of any tbe face of it absurd. one of 1~s SUmane would ha.ve an opportunity of di'­ adjourned to-morrow. cussing the question. The PREMIER: You might be discuosing it now. The PREMIER: Because it wa.o unnecespary. Mr. JUUHPHY: The Premier has nothing whatBver to do with this question. We are Mr. MURPI-IY: It has been laid down in dealing with the Speaker's ruling just now, tlw British House of Commons, by ~1r. Speaker Brand and ?ther Speakers, that it and not with the Premier, and the Speaker does not come wlthm thC" province of the says that we will have ample opportunity of Speaker to determino whether a matter is of discussing this matter to-morrow, when Supply urgent public in1port.ance or not. is brought forward. Mr. 'WHITE: Take his word for it. Mr. VVInTE: The Speaker has not decided that. J\Ir. :\IURPHY: The Speaker cannot say what the Government is going to do to­ Mr. MURPHY: He stated to-dav that it morrow. was of urgent public importanc.3. Ir; 1901 the OPPOSITION J\1EMBERS: Hear, hear! Speaker pointed out to the hon. member for ~cky(lr that he had ample opportunity of Mr. :\IURPHY: As soon as we start to dis­ discussmg the questwn he wished to brin~ cuss this question of -fedora! finance, the Pre­ forward when the Lands Estimates were bein~ mier can move that the question b~ now put, considen·d; also, that there was what I may and we might never get an opportunity of dis­ call an empty private members' day on which cussing it I consider, 31r. Speaker, that in he !lJight brmg the matter forward by giving your decision to-day you have takon away not!C(l of motwn ; and, that being so, he ruled certain rights from members of this House. ~ha.t It was not a matter of urgent public As you yoursl'lf pointed out, in 1901, this 1mportance. The hon. member for Lockyer should not be a party matter. The right' and moved that the ruling- be disagreed with and privileges of members should be preserved by spoke about the rights and privileg~s of the votes of members themselves. In 1901, member~. Mr. Cowley went very fully into this matter, and h<~' pointed this out- Mr. ARMSTRONG: On matters of urgent Hox. A. S . .;Q\\~LEY: 1Ve have nothing to flo with t.he public importance I a.m with you still. practice of the House of Commons since 1801, bec~usa Mr. Murphy.] 572 Motion for Adjournment. =ASSEMBLY.] Motion fur Adjournment.

our St.an(1ing- Order.'" ha vu been p~.~"'·Cll since that date. vre ha.....,e onr own S~andingOrdu·s to guide us now. opportunitv pass to discuss matters. when you really to come to .the pDint and deal Mr. SMITH: 1Ye have formed precctcnts. wa.1~t with them vour opportumty has p:one. HoN. A. S. 00\YLEY: Yes; hut the Speaker's rnLng ha~ been clutllengt'd. Si!JCe that ruling was given, the Orrosrn;x }1KIIBERS: H:g by the late }J(•ll m em her for f~ympie, :rt·. P:shcr. But ~hat \Yas an entirely t11ffercnt. r ·.·le, for that hon. mem­ Order No. 135A is a very effective weapon m ber h,Jl two 0c·m·tunit.ies of hrbgh~g tlle uatter for­ the hands of a majority. W;!rd 1 to dJ·CU'S that mohon. Sta,ldmg rect inh~rpretaticn o~ onr Rtnnding Orders awl say what Order 1'\o. 130 provid;::·s for that, and ~1vss is tbe emT('n! 1 ·H·et:urc in all;. a.tter.-~ rtairdng to the r hin1 ever..-,- opportunity of d'?ing f-0. a.nd 1£ _we bu::;irH'SS o[ tltc Hou:1e. I alv; ·tys l>ee;l of opinion that nnr StatJ,~irg- Order any lwn. mem1X'r the allow th,; Sp~aker to ovec·nde that Standmg right to mrn:e tl lt t ]J~! .lHLng- b(~ dis·~-'Tl'f- d Ordor or if v: c 'l'ermit the Speaker to my to with is l'rld, mtd I think l'r!me .:\Iini···tn sllnHld see any ",~em'x·r '·:I do not intend to allow you tlutt the H·anrHng Or 'm· in quc·.Uonrhoulcl he amended. to rnov,· th~ ~djournrnent o£ th~ ~Touse," then ns & on a~ yo::-sihln. I do nN knm;; ti1at any such \Ve ('i\·,-: away our rights and prrnlo~'€S. Standing Orller exL.t~ in !Lny l'arJj~uncnt ln t1 e Drit;~h dominionF;, nncl ~orm ~ts 1h!:t Order is c1otJ£ away OrPOSI'I'ICJ); :\IE~IBETIS: Hear, hear! wit11. tllc 11Atlcr. I \Yi~h to S!J.V t.ht~t tl:e pmctlce I refern 'l to is nn:.tir not Ollly to yon. =-lr. f flCaker, but }lr. l\fURPHY: It is Lecause of th~t that to eYrr.r ltnn. mcrnbor \Yho wi-"'hes to get ~Lt the trnth I intend to vote for the mohon move~- uy the of an_v IJ<:riicnlar mat1e1·. I am sorr~· thnt the l1on. hon member for t:louth Bnsl a.ne. \1 o have memhr:r fm· Loekyroy dtd 1101 give notice of thi,-_-, motion, bee;, told that this question of Federal finance so thnt members l'ouid hunt np tJr certcuts wbich would Iuui tn t.be Hon~e coming to a rjght ronc1n:o-.ion. has never been di"cussed here. Has there But htking- into eo ~irle'~'ntiou the praetir~e whieh hns ever be •n an opportunity? The Premwr has existed in tl1is Hou ..~c in days gone by. antl taking il"!to bocJl to several confer .>nee·, bu': has the Pr adjourn until the tu;1ity ,houid bo l;(lvcn for the d1scus"on of ~"ith of :\u~.u.sl.," but what authority has the this Federal quostwn, m order that the Pre­ hen. nwmLer for :\lorcton to t0ll us that we miN uight be able to go to :1\Ic·lbourne and can disulS thi c matt"r \Ylten the motion for the sav that he has got the State of Queensland at adjournment i ~· bf-:;fore the I-iouso. hi~ back. lln OrPOSITIO~ ~'.LJ:~JBEH: None. Mr. ArmSTRO);G: Half will tell him ono ~lr. :FonsYTII: \Yho ca.n stop you? thing ancl half will tell him another. :Hr. :TCRPil Y: The Speaker can stop us l\Ir. ::\HJRPHY: If half of the m em bors to;d i'.lr. FonsYTH: He cannot stop you. the Premier ono thing, and tho othe_r ~alf to_d the Prdnicr another, ho has the maJonty, and :\Ir. MURPHY: I do not re ~m·d the hon. he CJ.n gi YC' the casting vote. meml -r for 11oreton an authority on tho ~Ir. HARDAC'RE: Ho would know it. Standi;, ,. Orders. :\Jr. "oHSYTH: I am sure I do not regard :\Ir. MUPvPHY: Yes, if the matter we,re you. a" ono. discnssed. tho Premier woulc! know what t_ae House thought of the quostwn, and. I quite Mr. :\IURPHY: Since I have been m this agree with the hon. member. for Lewhhardt, Home I havB discm·ered that if you let an that if this matt

l\lr. ILuiiLTOX: Tho Prarnier's wcn1.

: Exactly. 'fhat is simply on rule of the House of Com- mons in England~fiv-e here is equivalent to forty there-and five members rising in their Mr. :\itJRPHY: Don't get Bxcited. places to support a member proposing such a Mr. WHITE: I sincerely hope that the motion as vvo are discussing constitutes--! House will co1ne to a sense of the wants of won't say a sacred privilege, but one of our the country, and will agree to the ruling most cherished privileges. I think it is the without division, and we can then go on with duty of a comparatively young member like the business of the House without further myself to do what he can to preserve these waste of time. privileges. I think very good reason has been An 0PPOSI'rioN ME1iBER: And adjourn the shown by the authority of the most eminent House for a fortnight? Speakers in England, and the greatest con­ Mr. LENNON (Herbert): I do not 'ntend to stitlltional writer known, in support of the take up the time of the House. I merely arguments of the hon. member for Bowen, the rose to say that I intend to· support the hon. member for Ipswich, and others, and I motion of the hon. junior member for Bris­ think that the argument is wholly in favour of bane South. I cannot see any sense in the the motion to disagree with your ruling. argument of some hon. members on the other Although it may be the proper thing to express side when they say that we arc rega" ~loss of contrition for taking that view, I should only matters of public importance-that, although be acting the part of a hypocrite if I said that it was of public importance, it was not of I felt very sorry. I trust that the good sense Mr. Lennon.] 5i4 11iotion ./01' Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motion for Adjournment.

of the House, and the desire to retain its Mr. PA YNE (Jiitchell) : If your ruling is. privileges, will result in the carrying of the correct, Sir, then Standing Order 130 is not motion by a substantial majority. nBcessary, because that Standing Order lays down clearly that undBr certain conditions any Mr. I~L\lviiLTON (Gregory): I must con­ hon. mcml>er can move the adjournment of gratulate you, Sir, on so early in your career the House. The Premier said-and if what as Speaker of this Cham her being confronted hB said was Correct, hP would be quite right, with a motion of this sort. I am going to but what he 1said was incorrect-that, if our olier no apology fo · supporting the motion Standing Orders permitted any hon. member that your ruling be disagreed with, because I to mov€ the adjournment of the House, it think that, taking all the circumstances into would upset the whole business of th€ House. consideration, and from my knowledge of your But this House has protected itself against attitude in the past in these questions, if you that in two distinct ways. Although an hon. were a private member in the House you member is privileged to move the adjourn­ would be supporting this motion yourself. ment of the Houoo, he cannot obstruct the (Hear, hear !i There is no doubt that when business of th€ House for very long, because the you were a private member you were a great Standing Order limits the length of sp€eehes, stickler for the rights and privileges of mem­ and under Standing Order 135 the Premier bers of this House. can stop discussion if he thmks it necesc,ary to Mr. WHITE: So he is yet. do so by moving, "That the question b€ now put." As a matter of fact, I believe that any 1\lr. HAMILTON: Not at the preoont time. hon. mBmber can move, "That the question I am quite certain that if you, Sir, were a be now put." I feel it is my duty to vot€ that private mBmber at the prBsent tim€ you would your ruling he di>agreed with, and I do so in be supporting a motion that a ruling of that an honest way too. I remember last session sort should be disagreed to. The hon. mem­ the hon. member for Brisbane South moved ber for Lockyer seemed to be labouring under a similar motion, and your predee€ssor, the the impression that this is not a matter of Hon. J. Leahy, laid down very clearly that he sufficient urgent public importance. I under- was powerl-ess in the matter so long as five stood you to rule that there would m than any qu<:stion which could be Chamber. It deals with a matter of procedure, brought before the House. In the past the and instead of attempting to elucidate that, Premier has gone to Premiers' Conferences the 'hon. member is about to address his re­ without knowing, so far as I know, what the marks simply with a view to giving• the pub!io opinion of this Hous€ was. Unless amp!€ information. This is a House matter, and we time is given to us to discuss the )llatter, how are discussing the question for our own en­ can the hon. gentlBman know what is the lightenment. opinion of this House, or even what is the Mr. RYLAND: For that reason I would opinion of the people of Queensla.nd 1 He has like to put before the House what the position never asked hon. members for their opinions, really is. The Standing Order reads- nor has he given hon. mE> been limited to a shorter citizens of Brisbane, the Speaker, following time, so that_ we should havE> had short, crisp !he ruling he has given to-day, would get up speeches, whwh would have been a very good and with due sokmnity say, "Yes, I agree guide to the opinions held by members in this that this is a question of ' urgent public im­ House. I do not care about putting off till portance,' but there will be an Appropriation to-morrow what we can do to-clav. This Dill coming before the House to-morrow after­ matter could ha•e been discussed to-day, and noon, some hours after the lives of people had the discussion been allowed in the first have been lost and property swept away, and instance, it would probably have been over by that will be the most appropriatB occasion on this time. The privilege that members have of which to discuo;s the matter." The cases I discussing grievanc0' in this way is one that havo cited are absolutely identical with the should be preserved, and I hold that it is our ono before the House. The present is an duty to maintain our rights in this respect. opportune time for the discussion of this As the Premier has said on more than one matter, because we know that the executioner occasion, "They only have rights who dare is sharpening the gag whereby members will maintain them,"· and I shall vote for the be absolutely prohibited from giving this or motion that your ruling be disagreed with. any question the consict.cration it deserves. The Premier stated that this matter could have been discussed during the la't four or * Mr. MULLAN (Charters Tou·,·rs): Before five weBks. I deny that it could have been the question is put, I should like to give the cliscussed during the last four or five weeks, reasons why I feel bound to vote that your because I have a vivid recollection of having ruling be disagreed with. I realise that it is a been ruled out of order by the late Speaker very delicate thing for any member to vote when I attempted to discuss the financial rela­ deliberately for ouch a motion, because l hold tions bBtween tl10 States and the Common­ that when a Speaker has been elected to his wealth on a similar motion. I presume, exalted office it is the bounden duty of every therefore, that the present Speaker, followmg member in the House to uphold the Speaker precedent, would also have ruled me out of and his cloings, so far as is consistent with order had I attempted to mscuss that question honest dealing in the House. This is not a cluring the recent debate. The hon. member party matter, but it is one in which I think for :\oioreton stated a while ago that there was I am right in differing from the Speaker. It nothing whatever to prBclude m,cmbers from will be within the recollection of hon. mem· discussing this particular question on the hers that a few weeks ago the Speaker, in motion which is to follow this. Surely it is giving a ruling on the question as to whether self-evident to any hon. member that such an we could discuss Supply during the currency important question as the financial relation" of the want of confidence motion, fortified betwc'Gn the States and the Commonwealth himself by referring to precedents of this should not be mixed up with various other Parliament, and even quoted precedents of last State questions. If there be one question session. In this particular case we also can more than another which requires careful and quote precedents of this Parliament. We have &eparate treatment, it is that momentous ques. rulings of Sir Alfred Cowley and Mr. John tion of the financi1l relations between the Leahy, to the effect that the Speaker has no State and thc Commonwealth, and this it can­ alternative but to allow a question of this kind not receive. if it is discussed on a motion to be cliscusscd, so long as there arc five mem­ which admits not only of the discussion of bers in tho House prepared to support the that question but also of the discussion of member who moves the adjournment of the cverv other conceivable question. It is pre· House. I am not a great stickler for pre­ sun,€cl a. delegate from this Parliament will cedent; l would rather make a good precedent attend the forthcoming Premiers' Confcreuce. than follow a bad precedent any day, but I I do not believe it is the wish of this House feel sure that trw precedents that have been !hat he should ,o att,.•nd. But that is not the laid down in this particular matter are question. Th-· fact is, he is to attend. In anv well-rDg·ulated institution in the world, sufficiently sound to follow on this occasion. in or outside Parliament, does it ThB Speaker first gave his rnling, and then at "Parliam~nt 1eot appc>a.r rDasonalllc that wh~n you send a a la tor siagn sn.ndwichcd in the rr- :1sons upon del<'o-ate anywhere. or when a deiegale goes which he based his ruling. In stating those a.nywhere on behalf of any body, that that ree ~ons en1phasisPd one moro h ' thing than delegate has so1ne specific'* \vork to do? ~n anything cLe, and that was-first, that he recog­ other words, that he is ck legated to do certain nised that this was a question of urgency, and, t,' ark, and receives sp(;_'cific in~tructio11s ho\\ to secondly, that he was not the judge of urgency. carrv ont that work. Dnt the Premier of this I hold that his po.,it.ion is untenable and St"t"e cxpedo to s;-o clown to :\J.ell,ourne~- illogical in stating that tho question was urgent, and yet ruling that it could not be The SPE~\KER: Order! I must point out discussed until to-monow. \Yhat is the effect to the hon. member that how·ver valuable his of that ruling? Suppo,e a man was to be oLR.r•ryatim:.s are, they are Hot in order now. hangPd to-morrow rnorning, and a member of They haw nothing- to do with the distinct this HGuse vvished to rnovo tho adjournment of question as to ·whether my ruling is in order. the Hol''0 to consicler a matter of "urgent in thn li,~ht of the Standing- Orders ancl the pul1liu importance," namely, the aclvisability prucedent'l that are to be found in" :.Yray," or of gfantjng that rnan a reprieve, the Speaker. 1n any oi her rccognisc:>d authority. according to the ruling ho has given, would :\Ir. ~Tl'LLA:'\: If vou allow me to com­ get up in his chair, and sa:;) "Yes. geutlernen, plcio .w.:- ;.,;ntence-- ~ this is an 'urgent mat10cr of public import· ance,' but wo sh,cll be dealing with an Appro­ The bPEAKER : I shall be v2ry loth to priation Bill to-morrow some hours after the allo'\v the hou. men1ber to colnplPto his scn­ m'm is banged, and upon that you can discuss icncc>, as I think I have allowed him to go on the question." Again, suppose there was a 1nuch longer than I ought to have. Hon. J. T. BeU.] 576 J1otiun fur AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motion .for Adjournment.

Mr. MuLLA~: I hope to be able to prove lishes, other Speakers may give rulings of this that they aro in order. To restate the ques- kind to the serious curtailment of the privi­ I was leading· to-that any institution leges of members of this House. The hon. it to give m€mber for Lockyer supported your ruling, going to say, and appeared gr,ossly incon­ and yet, own attitude on a former occasion to the similar circurnstanc·es_ 1 he n1oved work is of thB Speaker b

Question stat'ld.

or of to. have gone to the of those decisions, and I in or six cases the Spouk~r _ru.led matters were not of urgent pubhc rm­ In this instance you have demded is a matter of nrgent -pub;io import­ so that point does not operate on thrs The question then arises. _whether it is your authority to set aside a drs­ :YOU are csion. enabling n1ember~ to givu tho reprcsentatiYe If there has been one matter moTe than an­ of this i:ltate instructions--if I may put it that \.lther on which it was necessary to adjourn way--as to how to acl in reprc ,onting this the House to have it discussed, it has been i:ltate at the conference. It is true that, this mattguards any n1inor importance, 1vhich might bt~ discu~~ed on abuce. Tbe mO\-cr of the motion c:tn only the Estimates. Ono referred to the appointment speak for thirty minutes, and every other of a certain gentleman to a military command; speaker can only speak tor twenty Ininutes, another to the release of a prisoner from gaol and if this motion had been allowed to come on account of his physical condition. In the on to-clay and discussion taken place upon it. case of the prisoner, who was seriously ill, the even if every member h:,d spoken upon it, it then Premier (Hon. A. J. Balfour) undertook \~·ould have been through. The Standing­ thut tho item under which the matter could be Order safeguards a11y abu.-e, anJ it is the only disc UP .eel should b~ the first item on the Stauding Urd;:;r which safeguards a private Pr~sons' Estirnatcs for Lhe cvf nint_~· I am not n1emLcr ~11d a.llO\VS him to ventilate his gorng io quote all rhcsc cas cs; but it. is inter~ ~rieva.nce"'. l Cf_:rtainly think that you ruling esting to look up the authorities which mem­ 1··iil have a bad dl'ect in future. l am quite bers on tlw oth T ,.idc have quoted as pro­ c;ertaiu tha.t were it uot fDt' party Jiffertnoos c:_•dents in rnattcrs of this kind. In deciding Jour ruling 1\,~)uld be· disagrD-eJ ,,,ith to-day. that I rnust object to vctur ruliuv, ).[:r. (Hear, hear!) The hon. member for l\loreton, Speaker, I arn convinced ·that on a- future in speaking to-night, said that thi<· rnatter could occu.>ion, when it may be desirablo to have be di:3CUS;:J{-'rl on a n1otion for adjournm€nt; another matter of urgent public importance l•ut this i§ a matter of such public importance discussed. this may be rcfc:: red to as a pro~ that it could only bo discu.' 'cl properly on a. cedent for ruling tllf' proposed motion out of special n1otiou, ··xith special instr~1ctions, and a sp' cial issue brought forward. lt might bo order. As to the opprrtuaity 'I o are told there :.::.ssed generally on a. motion go into will bo for disc;ussing lLis ll!aitcr later on, how die,'- t-0 Cordmitte<~ of Supply, it rnight be discussed do we know that during the interim between gc nerally on the Address in Reply, and it now and the time for discussing ::iupply certain 1night l'e discu~sed g'(:nerally on a. motion for :\Iuusters or members on the other side may adjournment; but this 1s n critical period not have a Inisunden:;Landin&, on matters of \Yith us, \vhcn '''e are approaching" the expi­ policy of supren1o in1p:J!'tanc i:o the country? re.ti on of the p..s nev-er he n discussed. in tho Queensland Parliament, when th\i hon. The SPEAKER: Order, order! The matter m":mbor for Clermont, J\Ir. Losina, moYed the before the Hous-e is that my ruling be dis­ adJournment in connection with the l\Iac­ a~-rccd wirh, and in any remarks that th+• hon. donald case, and I thinl, it is within the recol­ wember makes he has gDt to address himself lection of many membms of this House that to the point. The point is wheth:r the ruling he was ruled out of order similar to the ea-A I gave is in accordance with the Standino­ we have here iJ-day. T!{e Addrecs in Reply Ordcrs of this House or not. "' was on at that time. and he was told that he could bring tho matter up on the Address in . :\ir. SUMNER: I do not think your ruling Rep!:·. \Yo haYo no guarantee that we will IS m . agreement with the Standing Orders. be able to discuss grievances before Snpply to­ Stanchng Order 130 r-eads as follows:- morrow, or ihat we y;-ill bo able to discuss anv­ A mot,i;_ '1 for the adjournment of the House other thing at all. We know the critical position of than the usual motion to tPrminate the bitting' of the House :~t the end of the business of t!JC day shall not be parties in this I-Iouse, and, as we know what ent.er_ta.med 6\f~ept for the purpose ot" debating a­ is on tlw hoards, we know what to expect. If defimte matter of nrgent public importance, the f,rs at least bcfore going to ~Ielbournc. Because there are rise in their vlaces to snpport i1. thirty-six m cm bers sitting on that si do of the I tak-' it in all s~riousnc,,s that if your ruling is House, That does not say that the thirty-five ~pheld to-daY, and it is quoted as a preccd<:~nt mombors sitting on this side shall have no say 1n da.ys tJ COlTif', it \vill bo a vcrv bad thin.rr for at all. Tho positions may be changed alto­ the mi~Iority in this House, wh~ever they c;,ay g0thcr to-nwrrow, and that will change the be. \\ <:~ do not knm,- but what the position to­ opinions Df the representatiYe or repre" morrow may not. be changed, and I oay un­ scntatives who gD down to :'delbomne. It. is hesltatmgly that If members voted irrespective only fair whoever goes down that they should of pa.rty to-night your ruling would never represent th'l opinions of every member of this stand a show. Chamber, so far as it can be gained. Last session the hon. member for South Brisbane ~Ir. KERR (Barcoo): The hon. junior mem­ asked the Premier to set apart a day to di·-cuss b<>r for Brisbane South mov<>d that this House the question, but the Premier would not allow ?o a.djourn on a matter of urgent public a clay to be set apart to discuss it. No, he Importance, and I noted that yDu, Sir, did not refu&ed to allow it to be discussed. s!ate your ruling. but you gave us your deci­ The SPJ<:AKER: Ordcrl That is not the sion that the matter could be dealt with to­ point. The point is whether my ruling is rnorrow, "\vhen \V€ ot into Comrnittec of Supply. ~\s one who has been in the Cham· correct or not. I hope the hon. member will bcr for a !lUmber Df years. and clowly watched deal strictly with that point. any motion for a.r!journment. I can state, with­ J\lr. SU:\ll\'ER: I was only pointing t the conference. sibility daes not rest upon the Speaker, -but The SPEAKER: Order, order ! upon the member whD proposed -the motion, and the five 1f10rnbers who ri~'·3 in their places l\1r. SU;'.lNER: I hDP'" that when the next to support him. The lwn. member for South motion c.an1os on I v-:ill not only get five Bris! a.ne moved the adjournment of thD House or ten minuteo to mycelf. which is all I last 'c ,1ion to C'Jnsider the financial relations wanted on this ma.tter, but that I will get four boh\·con the FNlcr,•J and State Parlia1,1ents, or fi.-e hours to my,;elf. (L t.ughter.) I think and it ba.s ht'"2ll sho1.vn this afternoon from this a very ur;ent public matter, and it should I-Ianst. rd that the Pr{'n1icr quite a;rre:Jd \vith be discLF.•-,ed. Wo are told in the loading daily the attitude t(l.lrcn up by the Speake" then, raper to-day tha.t the rcla.iions I ·etween the and that the rcqxmsibility rested on the five States and the Cc :nmonwccJ h-~- rnemL~· ·s "",Yho ro:3c in their plac~?s to RUpport the rn°m1-3r \vho n1ovcd the adjournn1ent of The SPEAKER: Order! Surdy the hon. the llouse. As m-emb'f'rs, w,g_ ought to con­ me1nber's sense of things will tdl him that his

oonclusion than that it is a matter of vital could be abused by fivo or six members. Now, importance to the people of this Sta.te that we I consider that the hon. gentleman himself was should dis•!m-3 the financial position as be­ trying to override tho Standing Order. tween the Commonwocdth and the States. The J\lr. BmnrAN : It has never been abused yet. hon. member for Charters Towers asked, \Vould not our Premier be in a ridiculous :VIr. LAXD: Ko. it has never been abused position if he \\as sent down to J\lelbourne yet, but whether it has been abu·ed or not ha, without having· first heard the opinions of nothing to do with the question at present members of th'B Chamber? Parties are very beforo the House. You have given a ruling evenly divided', and it cannot be said that any that I disagree with, and I intend cheerfully to party in this House, whichever side they are vote that that ruling be disagreed with. on, can claim to have all the knowledge on those matters. a.nd I claim that wB have mem­ Mr. WOODS: I am not going to take up the bers on this side-- attitud,, adopted by several hon.. members who have opoken. The hon. member for Faqsifern, The SPE i.KER: Order ! I wish the hon. the hon. member for Bowcn, and the hon. mernbor '""''Juld n1akA n1oro clear the connec­ tion that I suppose exists bot·,, 30n hi' remarks member who moved thic motion, all expreeoed and the question before the Rous\). (Laugh­ regret at, hanng to vote against your ruiing. ter.) Now, I have no reason to regret tho vote I intend to give. I am Snclined to think that Mr. KERR: I will make it clear that I this motion ha' not been mm·ed one moment think your ruling ought to be disagreed with. beforo its time. The motion that was sub­ The SPEAKER: Orclter ! I hope the hon. mitted to you hy the hon. member for Bris­ member will do it at thA 'very earliest oppor­ bane South reads as follows:- tunity, hoco,uo.e I have certainly had a vor.v I beg to move the adjournment of thr~ House in O!'der to draw attention to the urge.,t nP-tld of~ 'tti:ng apart a great deal of difficulty in percBiving the. con­ day for tile purpn:,e of discu.:;.sing the timn1chl relations nection between his remarks aad the motwn. between the States and the Oommonwe;~Jth. GoVERXMEKT MEMBERS: Hear, hea,r! and laughter. Upon that motion being submitted to you under the Standing Orders, you agreed-you Mr. KERR: l maY han' to repeat it again must have agreed-you must have been per­ for vour benefit but' I was pointing out, bir, fectly satisfied in your own mind that it was that" it was 1wcc~sary-and that was the reas?n in order, otherwise you, as Speaker, wonld for the motion of the hon. member for Tins­ ha\"O notifit cl the hon. member who gave you bane South--that the financial situation chould the notice in writing of his intention to move be discussed, so that the delcr;ate from this it that you would bo inclined to rule it out of Chamber should be, seized with the opinions order. But you did not do that. From your of the representatives of the people -of t~is pla-cB in the chair, as the hon. member for State'. You, Sir, have qUJte agreed w1th tne Barcoo said just now, you did not shelter urgency of i he motion, but no!nted out that your-df behind the Standing Orders-you there would be ample opportumty to-morrow. sheltered yourself behind the statement you But tn-morrow may never come. Then there made to this Chamber. You admitted that i'' this dang·cr in your decision-you _are the matter was one of m·gent public import­ creating a precedent. In a very s~ort tn;w ance, and, if you were prepared to make that v.e may have another Speaker in tne cha1r. admission as Speaker of this AssBmbly, then it \Ve mav have a general eleot;on shortly, and you ma"y not occupy that chair, but you are was your bounden duty to allow the motion to crc.•,tinrr a precedent that will be on the bo moved, and to allow five other members to recordsh of the House for all time; and, there­ risB in their places in support of it. According to our Standing Orders, I claim that that was fan', I V·''l'Y strongly object to you~ ruling.. I have :no apolo,:i(-L, to rnake for voting _?-ga1nst your bound on duty. If you ·,,ere prepared to vour decision beca.u,e I c0nsider that y,,mr admit-as you have done in your own defence ~ulinq- j,, \VrDI~g-. \V,, hav':: had. the rulings of on one or two occasions during the debate­ :Mr. ~ucaker Co•dm and the ru!n'~s of the late whether that is the right proceduro for a l\Ir. Sp-eal~2r Leahy, and your ruling i~ in Speaker or not 'is a rnatter for your ow·n con­ direct opposition to the rulings of prev1ous sideration~during th~ ten years I have been Speaker . I shall,. therefore, h'.''Y much plea­ in this Chamber, it is the first time that I have sure in voting agu1nst your decl' Ion. ever heard a Speaker, after giving ~ ruling, get up and attempt to defend his action with Mr. LAXD (flalo,me}: I wish to say a few members of this Chamber. The reason that words on this question. I intend to support you gave for your ruling was one that I, at the motion of the hon. member for South all events, cannot understand. You have told Bri.-bane, and I do not apologise for ,o doing. tho House that the reason you ruled the I think if there is ono man in th', House more than anoth,•r who ought to kn•)W how to motion out of order wn s for tho purpose of allo,,·ing it to be di:;cu~··,r:d on a rr1otion that admini~ter the Standing Orders, it is yo~rs0lf. stands on the bu .. ineFs-pa.per for to-mm-rm•r. I c::n~:::ider vour decision is \vrong-, ano you have admitted it. You allow, in the first The hon. member for Charters Towers gave pLce, that thi·, matter is of sufficient public two or threo very pertinent il!m,trations, and I want to give a.nother. Only to-day a deputa­ irnyort.ance, and th~:·n you say we can. dcba~e it to-morrow. That in it>e!f. I cons1dcr, ,, tion came from the electorate of the hon. quit.o sufDcient roason for me· to support the membGr for Lockycr to intervievv a certain motion. I think we should stand up for our Minister. The member for the district declined rights in this House. to introduce the deputation. and they had to fall back upon the hon. member for Rosewood. ::\1:r. Bow•,rA;;: After the rragging experience Had it not been for the hon. mcrnher for we have had in the past. Rosev.. ood, that deputation might have been J\Ir. L~\ND: There is no doubt, that the told "Leave it over till to-morrow." That is minmih- should look aftc:' their just' the position. Your stand in this matter [9 p.m.] own interests, because. if they is to "leave it over till to-morrow." But how rlo not, tho majority will soon do 1"C know whei,hcr those hon. g-entlemen show them that they are in a hopeless position. will be on the Treasury bench to-morrow? The Premier stated that thB Standing Order How do we know whether you will be in the Mr. Woods-] 580 Motion for Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Motion for Adjournment.

Speaker's chair to-morrow? How do we know tives in determining whether a matter is "a that a cho nze may not take place in this matter of urg-ent public importance." You Chamber: How do we know that the hon. yourself admitted that this particular matter member hr Fitzro) may not be un the was a matter of urgent public importance; Speaker's chair, or a weak Speaker-a Speaker but you wanted the hon. member for Brisbane who mav be under the dominance of the Pre­ South and this House to defer discussion on mier? i would not like to say that you are, the matter till to-morro\v, and to mix it up Sir. with another motion which may crop up to­ The SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem­ morrow, and which may not come on at all. The public Press has stated that this House is ber is making- a speech in a tone that ehould going to adjourn on Thursday night for a fort­ not be adopted when an hon. member i" re­ nig-ht--practically nineteen days. ferring to the Speaker. I do not care tD interfere when an hon. member is criticising An Hoxm-nABLE MR;mER: Make it three myself, but I feel it my dnty to tell the hon. months. member that it is a speech which dDec not re­ Mr. \VOODS: The hon. gentleman who flect much credit upDn him as a. member. occupies the position of Minister for R.ailways Govli:RNi\IENT 'H~;Mmms: Hear, hear! says, " 11ake it three m on the•. " If your ruling. Sir: is going to be upheld by this The SPEAKER: If the hon. member in­ House, then the sooner Parliament is wiped tends to imply, by his suggestion, that a out the better. It is the dutv of hon. mem­ Speaker may be under Hw dominance of the j~ rs-it is n1v dutY, at anv rate-t,o endeavour Premier, that I am under the dDminance of to prot0ct \Yhat little rigllts representatives o£ the Premier, then I can only tell him that the people havE' in this Chamb"r. As the thero is no justification for uch a sug'_ €stion. House is at prc ,ent constituted. the members GoVEH:-;r?IENT ).1EMBEHS: I-I oar, hear! of the minorit~ have very f.e"\v rights and very littl0 power: and I hole! that it is our }.Ir. \YOODS: I have made no such -ugges­ dut.:v to pres~ rvo those rig·hts and that power, tion; and. a.s far as my tone a'1 a men1ber in and I. for one, shall have very much pleasure thi:3 Chamber is collccrnt-d-_:_ in supporting· the n1otion that your ruling be ~lr. I(EXNA: That is your O\Vn businc', ,. di• lon~;· a3 I conform to the and the House divided:- Standing Orders.

The SPE~\I(ER: Order! r\~ ell. I am lJound AYES, 32. to tnll the hon. member no•- that he i.s not :J'I:r. Ail'P't ]!Ir. Leunon complying· with the Standing: Orders, and that Allcn ,. Lf'"ina he will have to addre,;s the Speaker in a suffi­ Bar her , )fann ciently rt GOYERKolENT i\lE1iBERS: Hear, hear ! " Cowrtp , Petrie , C:ribb , Philp Mr. WOODS: I sincerely hope that what­ , Den}mm , Rankin ever remarb I may make during the rest of ,, Pm·syt.h , Somerset the time I may speak will not ruffio your ,, Fox , Stodart ,, Grant , Swayne feeling·. I have no intention to ruffie your , Gray'-Oll Thorn feelings in i.he f lightest degree, ":nd I shall n Gnnn ,, '' nlker endeavour, as I have end0avoured smce I have , IIam·an , ·white be0n a member of this Hous<', to keep within , Hawthorn the Standing Orders. \Vhen I get outside Tellers: "Ir. Swayne and :lir. Walker. the Standing Orders, it will be your duty to pull me up; but I feel sure that so far I have not gone outside them. I am giving reasons PAIRS, why I am in duty bound to support the motion A.yes-11:r. Jenkinson and Mr. Redwood. that your ruling be disagreed with. Your Noes-11r. Keogh and Mr. Roberts. ruling practically takes away the individual Question resolved iu the negative. rights of members as representatives of the people of Queensland, and I maintain that it The announcement of the numbers was received should not be in the power of the Speaker to with Government cheers and Opposition counter go against the will of the people's representa- cheers. [.M r· Woods. Special AdJournment. [4 AuGusT.] Special AdJournment. 581

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. The PREl\:IIEH : Our sense of vropriety would THE PREMIERd' CONFERENCE. be shocked if a judge-the snn11esc judicial officer we h.i.ve, ar jn~tice of the V ·:we-should sit The PREMIER (who on rising was received on the bench and adjudicate on his own case, wrth Government chr ers) said : I beg to move- Mr. AIREY: The people adjudicate. That the Ho ... tse, at its rising at the termimLtion of the sitting appointrd f<~r Thursday, the 5th instant, do The PHEMIER : Every person would cry out adjourn until 'l'ue~<1ay, the 24th instant. against it. In moving that motion, hon. members know Mr. Ll'cr\'XON : Clause 87 of the Constitution quite well that 1t has been agreed Letween the provided for it. Fedenl Government 1mentary settle the problem just according to thPir own statement of the position. It has been ''greed wishes-accordu>g- to their own Ideas-I do not by the Federal Government and by the several claim that the States should have the right to State Governments to holrl a conference to dis­ settle it. They also would be in the same cuss and, if pos,ible, to come to a mutual under­ position- judges in their own case. . In my standing concerning the rearrangement of the opinion, the right peop~e to settle this ma,tter financial relations now existing- between the are the people of Australia. (He>J,r, bear!) The Commonwealth and the St,tes. \Vhatever other only sound or fair or rational way of "ettling things we Ina.y di' a puticnlar fund be­ the people. comes the supr.Jrne judge as to the disposal of The PHEi\liER : 'fhel'e is only one oppor­ that fund. tunity of the people of Austn1lia being con­ Mr. MuLI.AX : So they "hould. They

The PREMIER : I say that is an outrage on 'rhe l'HE~ITER: Only one onJnrtunity of the every f~ense of f~t.irness. people of Australia being consulted before the GovEit:\MEXT ME"IBEHS : Hear, hear ! evil is done, that is at the coming :Federal Mr. i\IA:-.:N : They are elected by the people. election e. 'l'be PREi\1IElt: It is at varianc'' with all the l\Ir. HAHDACl

The PREMIER: So that I claim, if a wise The PRE:\IIER: It will put federation on a and equitable roettle!nent of this important sound and las~ing footing; all the little troubles mattee is rl.Pf.lired, the urgPncy f,f it that take place betw.·en the :Federal Govern­ [9.30 p.m.] lies in the necbsity of coming to an mRnt and the i:ltate Governments will be small af!re,-rtwnt in time to enable the things once this large trouble i:-:: satisfactorily Federal P:uli>l'Ovide for settled. I think, further, that it is eminently H refPrendum at the conting Federal elE'ctions, desirable that. Qn:eensl:.md .hould be represented andtnied tha•. if it be pos­ 0PP0SITIO~ :MEMBER~ interjecting·, sible to corne to an agrPemeut in tbe way sug­ The SPE.\KER : Order, order ! gested, it is rnanifestly a desirable thing-not in the intere.sts of the Stn.te, not in the interest8 of The PHE~IIER: Or 'o mnch to !o'e by feebly the Commonwealth, but in the interesls of the letting their right tu home rule be filched from whole of Austr«lia. them. OPPOSITION l'viE}!llEHS: Oh, don't! Spare us ! GovEm:;\JE~T ~IE>rBEHS : Hear, hear ! The PREI\IIER: 1 do not wisl], in moYing a The PRE:IUER : 1<;ven the Labour party motion uf tbis kind, which is in its form si1nply admit that it is " desirable thing to come to an a mo~ ion: to provide ftlr the ctdjournment nf the agreen1ent,. bt>c tu~~e thny then1sdvt's have pro­ House--I do not wish to raise dicputable or po;;ed a Las1s for agreement. acrim~>ninus a~pects of this nmtter, or I could show tlw,t there is very serious danger to onr An OPPOSITION J'.1E~!BER: A fair basis, too. ri~hts b;.•ing invarl~"r1 and nltin:atfJy d~stroy.ed The PRE:\liER: I think it will nlso be nd­ unlt'.">:~ we (' ,n fl.!:-~l~t;XA: Can't you tell u" the lines you those who are intimate with the questioll that are going- on ? the prospect of a set.tlement is more hor>:.ful than Mr. MAK~: J\Iore champagne. ever jt was bt-fore. The desire fur agr\-e1n~nt b3t\"veen the State3 and the Oummonwt<:Llth has Other Ho~oURABLE ME:IIBEHS interjecting-, bet~n growing-Rlowly growinp; at fir~t; but any­ The SPEAKER : Order, ,,rdcr ! one who ha.s atter.ded as ma.ny conferences as I have clotH-', and anvonn who has paid attention The Pl{E:\IIER: An'l I say tlwt no State in tc: \vhat those conferenc.::-.: have cbne, will recog­ the Co1nmun we'"'tlth-if I, p~:-rbap3=, except \V hat llis,~ that there ha~ bet n u, gTowillg desire to I believe to be the gre11t coming Sta,>e ,,f \V,_stern attain" ~etlement. Australia~ I s.rv tlJat no State atHi the people of no State in thP ·cnrnnwn 1:,·eaLb ha.ve 80 much to 1Ir. OoYNE: Th' Ccmferences hnve done gain, so much to profit by f'flicient loc-1l self­ nothing. government, as the people nf QU\ ens land. I exceedingly regru; in a rnatter of this kind to The PRE:HIER: Tbe conferences have done notice the t>me of some of the interjections. a great deal. A simple man like the hon. mem­ ber for \Varrego may "'Y they bave done nothing Mr. BLAIH : J'IIore tone ! bec",use thP.': have not done everythiu;;. That is The PRE:\IIER: Surely if ever there wns a a very hasty uud in·\dequ[lte jurlgme~1t on a time in the history of Queensland when faction mat.'er of this kind. \V here sevvn c;eparate p~rties should be rtshn.rned to lift its hend, it is now. have each a clairn on ~L com1non fund, \V here the matter h .s exercised the ingenuity of the ablest GovER~MENT J'IIE}fBERS : Hear, hear ! financioJ men in Australia, it is not very remark­ The PRE~TIER: If ever there was n t.irne in able that an a(ireement was not come tc> at once. the history of Queensland when tbe public men The v,tlue of the conferences alre1dy held has of Queensland shnnld 1mdre an earnest attempt been the attention they b we called to the mtttter to get abnvp. nll perf'onal feeling, :\nd even all by the discussion over >md over again of the diffi­ party feelinc:, I s>ty that time is now. And the culties that. rc.1lly stand in the way of a settle­ people of Queensi.Hlfl, if they are knocked out ment, and it is because the repeated discussion in this matter through personal and party feel­ of those difficulties has thrown so much lir:ht on ing, will bav v,·ry much reason to curse the the matter that there is now a very fair hope of,, present Parliament of Queensland. settlement being a.rrived nt. GOVER~MENT ~V1Eil!Blll\S: Henr, hear! 1Ir. KENNA: Upon what lines? J'vir. BoWMAN: You engendered that when you The· PREMIER: And knowing intimately came from the old country. most of the men who hnv" tftken part in reeerit An 0PPOSITIO~ Mic:lfllEll: They will have good conferences, I do not he,itate to say that there rea:ion to curse vou. is a growing desire-I think an ·honest nnd I\fr. KENNA :-Yon won't agree to :mything. sincJ~re desit'e~to have this matb:•r settled on a fair and perm·tnent footing; because I think Mr. BLAIR : No chance. everyone begins to recngnise how n1uch it means The SPEAKER : Ord<·r, order! to Australia. I say that public men diBcnssing this question with an hone"t and sinct·re dhire The PREMIER : I claim that however we to agree on the matter i:; the first step towards tnav difft-'r on small matters, however much \VB that settlement-becnu.se everyone rec< guises may differ even on gre,,t matters, either poli­ that thA re"11 Sl'•tt1enlmlt of this que:-Jtion n1eans tically or persnnally, howevr,r we may differ ns the consumrnation of ferleration. to the details of tl1c• ,;ettlement tb~f. we individu­ ally would like to "e", there shonld be no differ­ GovEHN:IfEXT :\IEcHRERS : Hear, hear ! ence as to this point : that it is desirable tba t (Hon. W. Kidston. Special AdJournment. [4 AUG!JST.] Special Ad;journment. 583

·Queen-land should he represented at the confer­ and the difficulty of agreeing i,; done away with enc", and that we should tJ y to g-et some rational by giving and taking with Pll8 anoth,.,r to come and b'lsiness-like s•cttlement of this important to ::t cnn1n1orj (;'(Jinion. I think if they can matter. succeed by reu.soning \vit.b onfl annHtPr, nnd ~n Mr. LE:s'NON: You have been offered several gi \'ing and taking, so that in the end they will settltrrwnts. comA to a cnn1mon ngref'lne-nt as to what, tm the Mr. BLAIR: This is the seventh. whole, will he the best thinv, then it will go a very lon(T wr1y in g-et· in~ the .Fer1Pral Par)iament The PRg:\HER: There is an impnrtantaspect to adopt it. And, more than tll'Jt, it will go a which-I hop,e hon. members will not be offended very long way with thP peoplP of Auscralia. at mv Raying- Rn-hon. m em her-: n1ak,• a. mistake abou't. \Vhile I will be only too delighteu have heard it said that this House should give instrnctions to the Mr. MuRPHY: Speak frankly. M:inisters who go clown to the c mference. The PREMIER: It is not knowledge that l\Ir. KEXXA: Certainly. these h(m. gentlemen are tbir>ting for. \Vhat The PREMIER: Some members seem to they want is some proposal so th"t they might think that they should not send "' representative discuss it and "":V th·lt it is a very had proposal. thPre, hnt that they should send a delegate there. (Laughter.) I kuow the hon. £ ent!.-men. 0PPJSI'l'ION Mic:IIBERS: Hear, bear! 1\Ir. BoWMAN: And they know you. The PTIE:\IIER: And tie the delegates' hands 1\ir. HARDACRE: It proha'>ly would be a bad and feet. proposal. OPPOSITION J\(E)!BERS : :Hear, bAar! The PRE:\riER: I could lay somr, nf the hon. :'VIr. BLAIR : That is the only way of making gentlemen ont quite well, because I could say that sur'' of you. (Laughter.) the propos"l they moke is an excell•cnt one, and The PRE.\UER: And they will be able to put them in a quandary. But that would not matter with the hon. gentlemen ot all. It would me~t rer:re:-;·'nta.tives frorn the other Stated and not 1natter what I propoRef~, tlwy wnulfl. say gh·e reasnns and listen t(J rea.--on~, Lut, having that, it was a, very lead proposal. They have no their hands and feet tic·d, ttJ-,·y c~nnot do any­ thing except as they are instrnc•ed here. propooal about this or anything ebe. Mr. BLAIR: 'What right have you to do it on l\fr. ,J. M. HUNTER: \Vhat is yoar proposal? your own? Let us have it The PI~E:'YliER : I do not hesitate to say that The PRE:\IIER: I am getting away frol_ll if th tt were dnne by the whole seven Parliaments m:v pnint, a.nd I do not want to get away, but I t from whom representati\'es were sent then it is 'difficult to ke•-p to the point when there are so would only result in a ridiculous fiasco. many interjections, particularly when a man Mr. BLAIR : \V by should you do it ? likes interjection,. -while I am not going to f-'ubn1it to this House any ent-n.nrl-dried. vropo~al, The PREYI:IER: If any settlement is to be I am gc>ing to sngge.:t to tbe Home, as most hope• l f,•r, it c:1n ouly be by the repreo,entatives people know quite well my ideas on the mat­ of the different St:~tes anrl the Commonwealth ter-- giving anrl taking with one a not her anf1 attetnptw 1\fr. HARDACRE: You have got so many. ing to arrive at a c nnpromise likely to be accept­ able l>y the people of Australia. The PREMIER: \Vel!, I am not going to say :\Ir. BLAIR: \V hat constitutes a representative? what I will have-that I will kwe tlmt and Mr. D. HUXTER: Yuuarenotajudge. (Govern­ nothing but that-but I do '"·Y this : That from ment laughter.) the knowledge we have of the working of the present system, the ideal that we ohould SfJek to 'I'he PREMIER: I think thnt anyone who attain in an:v rearrangement of nur different nnrlerRtands the matter at all understands this relations with the Commonwealth onr;ht to be quite well: that representatives who meet in based on thi3: It ought to trT to get security for lVIelbrmrne :tre rneeting there tn reas Jn \Vith one the States. And it ought to give the lcrgest another and to be re:>~oned with. possible measure of liberty to the Common­ Mr. BowMAN : That was not the attitude wealth. (Hear, hear !) I louk on this matter which you and Oarrut hers touk up. not only as a member of a State Parliament but as an Austr:.lian. Mr. CoYNE : ]\;fake suggestions. GOVERcDIEXT ::\IEMBEHS : He>tr, hear ! The PREYUER: They can only agreP upon some propc-,·tl that is likely to meet with the The PRK'tiiER : I have :irl everywhere ap;mw;,l of the people of Ar·str-nlia. They have that it is my dr·,ire to RC'' established in Aus­ all go~. different opinions. The \Vhole seven tralia a strmJg central GovPrnn1ent. Anrl 1t 1s Parlhunents, and se\'en Goverrnnent.-. repre~~enh~d alw my desire to see financi .lly strong States. .there, have, in a n1easure, separate interests, (Hear, hear!) And you c:tnnot get that unless Hon. W.Kidston.] 584 Special ArJy'ournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Special AdJournment.

the States have some measure of security, and the propoRal. I have discussed, I think, all the present unrle,irahle restrictions of :Federal financ­ propos--tls tbat have been mad·,.-at, least, tried ing are removed. (He.,r, hear !I to understand them all-and I arn quite williPg to gr->t more infonnntlon on tbe 1nat1er. I will Mr. ]\TANX: You nn get tllat under the be 'dt'lic;hted tn have more light on the matter, Braddon clause. but, ~{\L far as I can 8e£', an undertaking by The PRE~IIER: The pr.'sent arrangement the Corntnon\n'n.lth tn pay a per capit:t amount does not give the Conn11onv'lt>;.d1,h liberty. If to the State.:. vvnuld ~Jve f-ecnrity to thP States~ the CotnnJun\vealth, uuder the pres•~nt at range~ Am• m,., can >e at once that it will give ment, for thn most desirable purpose, wants to secirrity to tr1c t\tate.s sn far a> it Qoes. .The rais.... £250,000, it ha.; of nece~sitv tn r,1ise amount may not \le lerge. I do not hesitate £1,000,000 before it can get that £2~0,000 for its at all 1o sav that I value this matter nf si cu­ own plupo::t"3. rity to the ":-;ta.tes so great),. that I wonlrl. be Mr. 11IANN: If they raised it by a lanrl tax prepared to L,kA a much ~n·alJer snm pPr crq flta,. they would not. and settle our financial difficulties at once. ltJ would be a much wiser thing f>t tl,e uuly reconnuendation amount of money th(·y are going tn rt-eei\e, until of it. The recuUJlll·dldatiun, fr0rr1 a. ~Federal it is actually paid into tbe Tre~sury. In the point of view, is that it make·, the :Federal fourth week of .Tnne tbi,, year the Qoeenshnd Parlian:ent comphJte m.tstertl in regard to their Trt:>asurPr did not know wln.t he was g(1ir1g to get <>Wll finance,. They accept a fixed responsibility, from this fund. just as the States have a fixed H;spollsibility at :!Yir. BO\DIAN : But he got a pleasant surprise, the present time in the interest on the pubhc all the samf thing at all in this matter; it is not consideration for the States at all. the amount that give4 the States security-it is :Mr. HAHDACHE: has taken you eight years the knowledge beforehand of what they are able It. to depend on from every sonrce of revenue in tu come to that. framing their Estimates. There i~ nothing of The PREI\liER : I claim that if 'orne such that kind just, now. The present arrangement, arrangement can be made, it will be a good thing although it has had many advantages-and for tbe States and a g< ocJ thing for the Cornmon­ although I admit that unrler the circumstances wPalth, and I will go a long way in the matter of in which it was instituted it was probably about amount-- the best that could have been madf'-is riot such Mr. ]1.1ANN: All cant. as to recomn1eud a continuance uf it. The l'REMIER : To secure such a satisfac­ Mr. HARD ACRE: And you proposed to extend tory settlement. Some people speak as if it is it ten years yourself. just a matter of amount. There are many people who ought tu know much better who The SPEAKER: Order ! speak as if the basis of the discussion ought to he The PREMIER : Bnt bad as the present how much can the Ccmmonwealth afford to pay arrangPlnent is it iR an infinitely better arrange­ to the State'. Kuw, I claim that that should ment than the arrangement that will come into not he the ba,is at all. I think the basis should operation on the 1st of J anu,.ry, 1!!11, unless rather be an honourable carrying out of the something- is donh 1neanwhile. 11he greate'"'t understanding on which federa.tiou was agreed evil of tbi" present arrangement is the tirue limit to. in it-that it st"P' at the end of ten years. GoVERN~mNT MEMBERS: Hear, hear After that time, unle's some other arrangement ThP PRE:viiER: At the time when the Aus­ is made, the States will have absolutely no secu­ tralian States agreecl to federate, each one of rity at all. The Federal Parliament from year them had the view that they had a fixed respon· to year or frorn tjme to tin1e 1nay increaRe or sibility-the interest nn their public debt-and decrease the amount they give to the States each one of them knew that thev nquired their without the States having any voice in the Customs debt fnr the pnrpose ,;f en' blir1g them matter at nll, or any means of mal,ing them­ to meet that fixed redponsihility, nnd none of selves secure. Kow, I think that the thing thell1 could hav8 nff1 n~ed at that time tn snr~ we should try to accomplish in this watter is to render their CnRton1s rlutiet-~. A;.: ~L rnattfr of try to get a rnea,ure of 'ecnrity for the States, fact, there i' not one Stnte in the Con nwnwealth and to try to give the Connnnnwe t.lth Par­ which if they hod been told, "1f you federate li~r:1ent a much larger measure of lib. rty in pro­ YOU win lnse'the whole of your CustntnR dntiel:l," Vldmg for the1r o"n financial needs. would have agreerl to fillY snch arnmgemPnt. GovEitKMENT ~IE:IIBERS: Hear, heart GoVERX~JEN1' MEMBERS : Hear, hear ! The PRR:YIIgR: And afte" much d1scus,inn, The PREMIER: It wa·< 'imply imprac. and until l eee Flotn':.-'thlrg bf·tter, it i,ppm~ to me tieable in tbe then financial ccndition of Ans­ that a fixed pavmer:t per capita by the Common­ tr:Jia, aud it i:-> Equa.]Jy hnpracticable to~day­ wealth would give the larg<'t measure of security At the same tinw, thev did surrender exter_I· to the States, and at the sRrne time give freedom sive powers to the Commonwealth, and rt to the Commonwealth Parliament. was necessary to do so. If the eentral Government was to be a stronp:, ,elf-existing :!Yir. HAHDACHE: That was my proposal two GoYernment it hnd to have the exclusive years ago, and you would not have it. (Govern­ Tight to dm!' with Cu>toms and Excise. _Even ment. laughter.) if we ·were to have inter-State freetrade, 1t was Mr. MGLCAHY: It is where he got the idea. an absolutely neces·,ary thir g to hand over the exclusive prJWE'f'* of ( 1 U.stnm:-; to ~he Feder:1 1 Go­ The SECRETARY FOR HAlLWAYS: A very good vernrn• nt. There wonld have been no true one. federution with(1ut that, but under the circurrt­ The PREMIER: This is not my proposal at all. etances tho,t no State cnultralia. Customs duties. It was fir>t fixed at three­ JHr. TIIITCHELI, : Can you give us >tny ide1n the other Statee. The PRE:\1IER : It was necessary that the CommonweaJth should ha\e the exclusive control The PRE11r:BJR: I do not sa,y that that would over the Cnstoms duties, and it was equally be an unreasonably hrge amount. necessary that the 8tates should Mr. HARDACRE: You could not make it· the [10 p.m.] be assured of a share of those same for all the States, either. It would have duties. Various suggestions have to be a different amount for each State. been made as to amounts. It has been sn~gested that the pre'NON : That is too high. think it is an equitable proposal. The extra payment was to be gradually reduced by £10,00(} Mr. BmnrAN: Old-age pensions have to be per annum, giving time for the present abnormal paid out of that, you know. conditions with regard to population in \VHt.;rn The PREMIER: I find that the average Australia to assimilate more with those of the Eastern States. The delegates from \Vestern payments made tu Queensland by the Common­ Australia wEre very well pleased with thhare out of w Queensland. common fund. Mr. AIREY : That is unfair. Take the figures Mr. HAMILTON: Two parties-the Common­ for all Australia. It will be the other way if wealth and the 8tates. you do-you know that. The PREMIER: l\' o. In the case of Western The PREMIER : If I were to take the fiaures Australia they would not care to take the s~me for all Au,tralia, it would not make" any share as the others-there ought to be a special difference. arrangement made-and each of the States has Mr. J. M. HusTER: Oh! Yes it would. some interest in the matter one way pr another. Mr. AIREY: It would make a big difference. \Vhen you come to discuss the matter, the repre­ sentatives of each of the States look at their own The PREMIER : I am only pointin~ ouL that figures to see how this proposal is going to suit the average amount returned to this State by them and how the other proposal is go:ng to the Commonwealth during the last three years suit t'bem, and there must necessarily be sevs which have already beeu held. This will be the ei~htlJ conference held for the settle­ The PREMIER; Going- to Melbourne is a ment of this financial trouble. One was held in very trifling matter, but the settlement of this :Melbourne in June last, and another was lleld in question is a very important mAtter not only for Tasmania in March last, and after their delibera­ ~ueensland but for all Australia. It is a very tions had ceased we ·were just as far from a Important matter for every one of us in our settlement of this difficulty as we were when individual capacit.y as well as in our capacity as the first conferent:.' took place. The Premier has men::bers of this Honse, and that being the case, laid gre:~t strees upon the dEsirability of all I tlnnk that every efiort should be mfiER : How can I give yon such an may be, will not attempt to interff,re with assurance? Queensland being represented at the conference: ·Mr. BOWMAN : I think that after seven GovERNMENT JI.IE1!BERS : Hear, hear! confere,>.ees have been held, the eighth conference The PRE:\HER: Some hon. members may should definitely settle the qm·stion. The Pre­ say that r.lthougb the Premier and the Treasurer mier, however, admitted tilat the conference have got to go to ::\felbourne, there is no reason bad not the power to settle it. The hon. gentle­ why merrobers generally should not go on with man also told us that the object of the con­ the business of the country. ference is tn give an opportunitv to the State Pre­ miers and the Federal Prime Minist.er to OrroSITIO~J :'tiE~!BEllS: Hear, bear ! discuss the matter, and to secure legisla­ The PHE:\HER: I :tm delighted to hear the tion in the form of a Referendum Bill passed welcome r bouts from the other si db of the by the Federal Parliament, so that the people Chamber-they havr shown such an anxiety to may decide the question. 'l'be hon. member get on vdth husiness during the last fivP \VeP.ks, for Townsville staterl this afternoon that there and I am sure they do not want a holiday for was no necessity for discussing the motion the show. of the junior member fur Brisbane South. Mr. lYIGRPHY: \Ve ·,:ou!d take one if we He said, if you take the House as a whole, there wanted it. are only about six men who are competent to deal wit.h this financial question. I want to say The PRE:YIIER : \Vithout rliscmsing the from the outset that l do not nose at all aR a matter at length, I may say th<>t the !•resent finaucial authority, but there are men in this position ~m ply justifies the propo"al I have made Chamber that have borne fin:wcial ability, and if to adjourn. A8 a matter of fac•, the other States not more than six men in this Chamber can and the Commonwealth propoRe to adjourn. satiofactorily criticise the financial r~lations :Mr. Bow~fAN: For how long? bet.w0on the States and the Commonwealth, I want to ask bow the rank and file outside are Mr. FoRSYTH: .A. fortnight. going to determine as to what is a fair thim' by The PREMIER: The Southern States are to the referendum the bon. gentleman has spoken adjourn for a week. of to-night? 'l'be SECRETARY FOR Mna~s : The object of the An HoNOGRABL!! ME~mrm: New South \Vales conference is to give a had. is ccdj ourning for a week. Mr. BOWMAN: Give a lead! \Vhy, you The PREMIER: They can adjourn for a have been six years giving a lead. week quite well, but anyone from here attending The PREii!IER : I hope you do not object to a the' conference, which HJeets on Friday, would referendum. have to leave on a :\:Ionday or Tuesd:w. The ~onference goes on into the next week lHr. Mr. BO\VMAN: My vote in this HouRe has Deakin, the Federal Prime :Yiimster, will meet always gone in favour ot the referendum. I was the conference on the 1\Ionday, so that it will be replying to the argument used by the hon. mem­ the following Tuesday or \Vednesday before ber for Townsville tbib afternoon that there were Ministers will be able to leave :Vlelbourne. It so few men in this Home-not half a dozen-who will b0 seen, therefore, that the minimum length were capable of discussing the financial relations of an adj:mrmnent has been asked for to permit between the Cammonwealth and the States, and the (.;\lleensland repre,·entati ve" to go to the con­ yon are now going to depend on the verdict of ference. However members may resort to the the people as to what they think is right. old gag about cutting off King 'Chadh's h".1d. Mr. RYLAND: You will want two referendums and •.vhatever party differences 1uay arise, I -one to alter the Constitution. sincerely hope that members will show that they The PmlmER: They are only going to deter­ have r>n hnnest desire to protect the interests of mine what they think is a fair and equitable Queensland in this mfttter, that they will think thing. fHon. W. Kidston. Special AdJournment. [4 AUGUST,] Special AdJournment. 587

Mr. BOWMAN: I think the avarice or the attitude the Premier took up to-night was a fear greed of the Premiers that have met from time to that the States would not be tren,teJ fairly-that time ht-'' been largely responsible for a settle­ it was entirely in their own hands. rrlent not being arrived at years ago. The PREMIER: I did not take up that attitude. OPPOSITION MEMBEHS : Hear, hear! Mr. BO\VMAN: The hon. gentleman stated Mr. BO\Vl\IAN : There was a proposition if this matter was not Hettled, that after 1911 put iorward by Sir George Turner. There was the Commonwealth could reserv·' tn themselves another one by Sir \Villiam Lyne. There was the right ao to whether they would give the another by Sir John Forresc, and yet another by States anything or not. the ex-Federal Prime :\lir.ister, 1\lr. Fisher. The PnmnER: That is a mere matter of fact. And yet not one of those proposals w·1s at all satisfactory to the hon. gentlemen who were Mr. BOvVMAN : It is a mere matter of fact, there in the interests of the 8tates. but there i:;; an insinuation that \li.- e h}tVd some­ The PREMIER : They agrel'i to Sir John thing to dread after 1911 from the Cummon­ Forrest's propmwJ in Brisbane. W<•ahh that I do uot think will exist at ail. \Vhat hav,; to do is to take the p;,st experi­ The TREASliREH : And they afterwards with­ ;-uu drew it. ence of the Commonwealth. How has i; tr~oated the States in tbe paot? I think tille evidence Mr. BO\V:YIA?{: There is evid~nce that there th»y have gi\~en fron1 titne to time is the trut<>t was dissatisfaction between the Stu.tes and the indicatit•n that thc•y are prepared to tn-a.t the Con1ffi(lll\Vealth. I waR Romewhat amutled when St:ttes fairly, and come to a c01nprnmise. Now, I heard the Pnmier referring to the qn'''tion of the hon. ;;entlernan "eems to fear that if those home ruk-(Orposition laughter)-this cry of six Premiers do not meet in .!\Idbourne the home rule for Queensland. You, Sir, will re­ States are g<)ino- to suffer, because there is no member how, during the lo.~t election, the cry of one in Melbou':-ne who will look after their hotne rule was raised. How the hon. gentleman, interesto. I would remind the hon. gentleman from every platform, used the cry for all it was that the States bttve direct representation in worth. the Senate to look a her their mterests. New Hon. R. PHILP : And so did you. 8outh \Vales and Yictoria, as we know, have the largest pnpulations, as compared with the :\Ir. BOWMA::\' : And so did I, and the hon. other four State,, but little Tasmania has 111etnber \Va:'O) the one tnan who ~regretted that equal representation in the Senate as either that cry was raised. The one man ! But after New Soutb \Vales or Vietoria. That is the that cry had been r:tio"d-after tbe fight had safeguard of the StateR~thP fqual reprecl~:nta.tion been won-where did· the bun. gentleman come in? that they have in the S•·nate at the prPsent tnne, and this bogey that ha>' been hurled uu from Mr. HAnDAORE: Sold hiE party. time to time, not only by the Prem•er but by Mr. BO\VMA:\' : His subsequent aceion is many other State Premiers, I think myself is evidence to us of what occurred. The great cry purely a myth. \Ve have had no reason to doubt on tbe constitutional queiition-the fight was the sincerity of the Commonwealth up to the against the hon. member for Townsville, with present in giving us a fair dnl. They have whozn he is now ~tllied. given UR even rnore than we were entitled to. ::Hr. :\{uLCAHY: Thirty pieces of silver. The PREii!IEH: I want you to understand that The PHE:IIIER: \Ve settled it. a proper business arrangement should be come 2\Ir. HARDAOIUTI: You wonld not settle it. to. Mr. BO\VHAN: I w,mt to ask the hon. :\Ir. BOW.!\L\.:\' : The Premier stated that gentleman, in the event of this conference not eighteen months from now the whole matter taking place this year, does he think that t~e would be in the hands of the Cc>mmtmwealth if Connnonwealth is going to dn aHyt!•1ng unfa1r it were not settlr.,d, anrl there v"· as, I think, an towards any of the respective State,;? I b _lieve insinuation in the hon. gentleman's renmrks that that if no conference takes place, the Comm·m­ the Commonwealth hal: not been as generou" as wealth are just as desirvus of having this matter it might have been to the variuns States. settled a' what the States are. Jnst ab desirous. The Pm~mER: No, no! I did not even hint The SEORETAHY FOR ill!NEH: That is a ques­ at such a thing. tion. Mr. BO\V!\IAN: \V ell, there was a dread in Mr. BO\VMAN: Of course it is to a pre­ the hon. gentleman's remarks thctt if this matter judiced mind. is not settJr,; now, there is ,,,Jmething to fear The PREMIER: It is not a question of ill-will from the Commonwealth in the futnre. I want between the Commonwealth and the States. to ask the bon. gentleman has he, or has this -State, as well as the other States, not been Mr. 1\L\.NN : I rise to a point of order. treated exceedingly well by the Commonwealth? Owin(i to the interjections made by tbe Premier The PR:;l\mm ANll Hon. R. PHILP : No, no ! and the Minister for Mines, I can­ [10.30 p.m.] not hear the speech of the leader of i\fr. BOWl\IAN: There was a stipulation the Opposition, and I desire that laid down tlnt so nmch would be retnrned, and, you will call them to order, Mr. Speaker. over and above that amount, the s~ates of the Oomrnonv e"lth h. ve received between £6,000,000 The SPEAKER : I am very ghcl the hon. and £7,000,000 more than they were entitled to. member for Cairns has drawn attention to these interjections, and I hope the hon. members to The l'RR}!IEH: They bavt is true. in the third paragraph ; :vrr. BO\Vl\1AN: There is thescareaboutHob (c) Dividing the amount so nrr~vrd at by the.aver­ Roy tinancf'. age number of tho populiltiOn of Australia for the same representative yeari'l. '.rhe PREMIER : I had good reason for mying that. 5. That in view of the exceptional position of \Vc-:tern Austr:-J.lia a further capitatiou graut sbould lJ'· made to Mr. MAKN: Order, order ! that State, to gradually diminish upon a sl~dil~g scale until its share of the Fcdera.l revenue coiDcides per Mr. BOWYfA:c\': The Premier states that it capita with that of the other S~atcs. is necessary that he should go to MelbournP, or he wants this Honse. to adjourn th>1t he may go The T!lEASliRER: That works out at £1 Os. 9d. to lYic·lbonrne to attend the conference. If the per head. Pre1nier desire~ to go, or if the J--louse detern1ines Mr. BOW:\IAN : The ban. gentleman in that a representative should go, then it is for the speaking to-night said tbat, ~~e cvnfddered that hon. gentleman to go; bnt to shut up thif; House £110s. per Citpita was a fa1r tnmg fnr Queensland, for a fortni~ht is asking too much of this and he told us that for the last three years the Chamber. average per capita was £11Gs. 7d. The PRE~liER : \V hat are )Tnu to do with your­ The PmmiEl\ : That was the money we selves? actually got. Mr. BOWMAN: \Ve might ha.ve sorne chance "'Ir. CoYXE : Order, order! of doing husii1es~ if the Lon. gentleman were to go and give us a chance. He can go if he likes. Mr. BO\ViviAN: I hope the Treasurer will On three different occasions within the ]a,t six rPalise tb>tt if the Commonwealth is going to weeb--the last divi,ion was taken an hour and increr:,::;e its expenditure, it must have more a-half ago-we have had the hon. gentleman revPnne. If it is the desire of the peop1e of hanging on by tbot slender thread < f one. He Australi-1-t.he s<>.me people who send us to our goes to that conference and poses as the repre­ respective Parliaments in the Stat.es as send the sentative of the people of Queemland. I think F~deral representatives to the Federotl Parlia- [Mr. Bowman. Special AdJournment. [4 AUGUST.] Special Ad,fournment. 589 ment-that the expendit~re must be increased, Mr. BOIVMAX: Yes; it was promised ]-."st then it will be incrcaHed. They have stated, by year. I want to-night just to mention an in­ the action of their re!Jresentative,, that the pen­ accurate statement that was made by the Pre­ sions must be increased, and that the defence rnier in Gyrnpie h~..,t Satur~lay nig-ht. J \Vant expenditt1re n1u:- Prime 1'\linister, :\Ir. Fisher-- I will quote from the Gympie 111 in er of :Monday, 'rhe PnEi\l!Ell: The State Parliaments will 2nd August, 1009, to show what the Premier have to raise the revenue to pay that. That is said on Saturday night. This is what he e,•id- the real question. He was sorry he V."1'> detaining lli~1 hearer::; longer than lle had originally intended, but there wer,_, ::.till Mr. BO\VMAN : It was generally understood one or two things which h._: would like ro wention. when they dct.f•rn1intd to bring in "'n old-agB He told a devutation on tlln previous da3· that he \Vas pension in tbe Federal Parliament that we would :prepared to ~Lmencl the "~ ork8l ~' Coru11ett.~ation Act to proyidc for 1Ja}ment from the first day of the accident. be relieved of th>t ''mount of money so far as lie had nlways be\ievccl that th:-tt wnr, a desirable the payment frurn the State was concerned. If thing. .As a nlntter of fact, it woul•i lwve lJrnn carriml it is ir.~cr-eased, I snp}wse Queensland vvill rtcei ve out last .Year only lvr the obstruction lu tlH: House by perhapH (JVel' £250,000 in IJ811SiOllS, rrbat is the the LalJour pat'ty. estinmte, any bow. Surely then the Goverument GovER~~!E:-<1' j\,IEMimns : Hear, hew J will not expect to f;et the sarne amount. of revenue from the Federal G"Yernment, seeing tbat they .Mr. BOW:\L1X: Do yon Eay that that is a have been relieved of the an1ouut they had to true statenH:•nt? pay the old-~ •. ge p~msi,mo·s in (lueen:-sland during Tile Pim;lllrR: Qnite trne. (Laughtt•r.) the last twelve month,, Mr. BO\Vi\IAX : I ha\ e here eomethi1 g I will The TnEASUHER: \Ye don't expect lo get that quote from. ~Che hon. genti m:tn 1u~de that much. statEnwnt in Gympie on 8:1tunJ ,y n1ght. I 11r. BOV~-~~,TAX: \\.-ell, you cornpJain, and asked him on the ±lour of th:' House if \t is true, you ar,e in dread th "t tlw Fedexal Government and he t':JYR it i.:;. :Now l wHnt to re111iud the is Ih1t guiug to ;;ivP- you <1 lair deal after the hon. gentl(:•BHtrl t!u.t ,__, d iJHtu.tiun wait~ d on hin1 tern1.ination of the '' Hr.c~ddon blr,t" peric-L l·-;':-7, and 1 ~Jrcpose re. ·ling ~he aCC 1 'l1_lt of The 'l'REASVRER: The,· would hc,ve to spend that. to sLww th ,t the hon. -,en~ h~tnan all the money th• y propose to spend. wa..; sve ki,;g- in act> 1'd!1TIC" with fac' f' ~ t Gv1nui:=.l on ~-,.,tuL.a\~ ni:"ht. _\_nd I Lr1Y(; anqt~lf. 111 ,;end~, r~(ll1ite it.. The THE.\SL'BEH : Ye::;; on the old-age pension-'· j\,Ir. IlYLA!m : It io be'.tm· the,n the acljourn­ rnent of the llon~e, anyway. Mr. BOIV:\IAN: And on the defence, too. Y on sure!:· believe in clefencP. As a young Mr. l>. HUNTER: Js that the Co11r-ier? Australia.t, or an old ...:-\.nstralian, the hon. )fr. RO\\T:\_L',:'<[: Y"', t': Courio·, yonr gentlt-rrHtn HIU3t h.Jieve :in the d··ftnc·· of ...~usw pn.~>er. Thi::> L; the Br:',li£tnc Courier, \Vcdne ... - tralia. \Vhether the lv-n. gentleman wants the clay, 2Hd December, 1008- ~,eder,.l Governrnt·nt to go in for a borrowiug­ Ai:\.xlrcsciDli::-.:r nY Cr-:\IP.EX­ pnliey nr not I do not kH'~W. lf he ,.., a.nts that, Tn~; Pnunr-:R~"\rmtKru,/ ~.\TtO:-i .AC'l' H\ U i'UlH,lC well it i~ tbr hn:.:oine<; of the :Fed,_ral Parli~.nnent, ..t Deputation to "1r. trn1. and tbi~ S•at) hns oo right. to ir:tsrfere with how A eh plll:ttlon. C' a~htin r of 11c· ,r~. 11. Bowman, they grt chPir woney. The Federal Parliament RvhLJd, Jlnll:ahy, I· nnnn, \Yin~t::J,ley, ::tml J.lnlla.n, r-et the hn1k of their ll1oney frorn C·~ston1s and Ji:,r.r~ A .. \YHitt 1 C•U ': 11e l':,•.mier \:l~t night to ::"k llim J~xci-:;e at the pre,~ .:_mt time. .1.\. proposal was to intrr il1ce an hll1Cncling \ill to the \\rorher:o' ComlJCn­ n1ttde in thP Eederal Parlia.rnenc h~t ses:;ion to sntion A et.. try to ~et a. further stun of nloW-J by nwans ()f Jf!'. BO\LUA.\J remitl'1ed :llir. KV.~ton that tHJ ~Lucncl- direct taxatim1, for in addition tn tl!" cxtr._t. il:.r_;- lJill wH~· lJIOJHisc~d in l.tH~ G-O\'C-n'Iwr's .:-'/'-11 iu tlw la~t Parliarnont, aucl drew lli : attt;JJtion to !';;et that money r(;quired for tht-:-::~e t'NO s.:n-ief:·", nld-ag•:'l dnnng tt;e dc';·:tc C1n the AUdru_.: in lte,.m uf ext" ndit.urr, and th~.::y h,u e ' 1 btl d;Lte of the aceilient, iustead of their h1.vjng to ~<.: with­ out payment for tbf\ first f'.trtnight, and thus: bring the taken over quarantine, which i~ anc ther big it.ern of expenditure. worl( l'S into line with civil ser"Vants. )Ion tl'ihnUng in mi11es v;cre compelled to ac·- &:3 contractors, and were The P HE:IIIER : No; they have not taken them thus removed from the benefits of compensation. over. l\11'. RYiu\.ND supported :.nr. Hnwmau's re(lUCst, and asked that a schedule should be inserted in the Act Mr. BOW.l\IAX: 'Why, your own Home defining the ~~mount or com!JCH·'·H.tion wocl\:ers were Secrdary sent Dr. N orris, the connnis::;ivneT for entitled to for the loss of various limbs, etc. He also quarantine, clown to Peel Island last week to asked that men who were incapacitated b.\· disease in­ make an inspection in connection with the lepers herent to their particular calling 8hould abo be there. entitled to eompen~ation, as w2.N. the ea:-:e in the En~llsh Act; also that men 1->ermanently injnrc.l, or The PnE:IUER: But they have not taken over killed, even H lly contributory negligence, slJould be the lighting. 'l'hat is not profitable. They have entitled to compensation, ana tll?t where a. worker had taken over the quarantine. no depend'.nts the compensation !'hould. be pn.id to his nearest heir: also that in the case of inf.;olvency or the Mr. BOWMAN: It would have been better if emvloyer compen~ation shoulfl be th(j first clalm aiter we harl been allowed to go on with business, wag~·~. He asked also that a system ot ~tate insurance especially as there has been a good deal of legis­ should be in troUnced. lation promised by the Government in the Mr. }[l:LO \IIY said he thougllt that in most of the Governor's Speech, as well as the legislation dangel'ous ocCLH•ati{JllS, almo ... t without exception, men which was promiiled to a cler•utation last week in were employed under contract. so that they ~hould not come under the ·workers' Compensa-tion Act. The connection with the amendment of the \Vurkers' Government was not free from blame in this respect, Uornpensation Act. as a case had come under his notice where a serub­ Mr. MULCAIIY: That was promised last year. feller at Gympie had contracted wHit the Government, Mr. Bowman.] 590 Special AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Special AdJournment. lost his life and his widow hacl not received a penny the employers of labour. He thought it wa'\ quite fair of cam pen~ ·ttion. rrhis tendency to escape the pro­ to minimj~e that burden as far as po::'~ible by a system v1sions of the Workers' Compem"ttion J ... ct hy letting of State immralll:e, which would lessen the cost to em­ work on cont1·act wa~ increasing among employers. ployel's, and also obviate cases being.~ 1 ofte11 foubllt. In rega.rtl to the claus,~ exemvting men 1rom payment l\Ir. Bow~IAX: I have spoken to many employers, and during the first fortnight after acciUent, he vointed out they don't objr-ct to paying eompen~ation, but to being that in a great many cases men were incapacitated for fleeced by il1stuance companies. a few U.ays only. ~lr. KIDSTO~ said that the heavy stamp duty fell )1essrs. L:KX.XON and IYINSTANLEY ~1lso supported the he:-tvily on small employe1s, and he thought that in pa~<­ ref Gyrnp!e : "I would h' Ye done stonewallir.g. (Laughter.) this for you had it not be0n for the Labmr party." Tv1iuing membr•r,, on botL ,;d,,, :Jdmit the Mr. BOIY:\IAN : treacherous nature of the miner·s occupation. Because, added :J.:Ir. Kiclston, laughingly, you fellows 'l'hat is one of the reasons why I object to this won't ~ive me a. clutuce. House being closed down. \Vhen speaking on ~Ir. Bow1.IA~: You can get a chance after Christrr.as:. the Adc!resd in Reply, I calJe, l attention to the }fr. !\tDSTO:S: I ,.~n just as well intentioned in the abeencc from the programme submitted to us in matter :·; you arc, bnt there are otl:.d' things, and it is the Governor's Sneecb, of a Sta,t.e Insnr:) nee Bill reall,:. desi.rabJe that 2.1inisters shonld g8t into l'eCfH. (l:tu){hter.) Thel'C are 11 numbc.' of )thcr mattr 1·s of anrl u \Vorkers' Compt-usat.i(,n Ae1; _.:\rnendlnl-'nt verY grr~J..t importance that i\-Iinisters shonid attend to Bill. They \vere bc~h contained in the ]WO­ in the early part of the year. Thereareurge11t matters gramme promised for the first Sf' -ion of 1908. of public Uusine~.-, that, in my opinion, u-ould not justify Now, I D. m prepared to test the sinc,>rity of the us keeping Parliament into the new year, or at k'-J.St any Government by asking them if they are prepared lcngtb of time into t1w nmv yc~r, and what 'iTC are to introduce and t·a--s those Bills during the going to clo Wf> will have to do between now and the end of the yc:tr- at l1 aA, l hope so. absence of the Premier in ;\Ielbourne? 3ll·. Bmv:U.'\X: Th0re is no matter so urgent as this. Mr. 1IULCAHY: They are nut in this year's ;.Ir. KIDSTO:'\ flaid the Act had beAn in oper~tion only progrmnrne. two yettrs, and. l••td tlorw a. vast amount of good, and he thou~ht they wonlr~ w.ree t11at it was not dt sirable J\Ir. BOIVMAN : Of ~ourse, thev are nol·, to amend it LTery yt AX like the Land A et. He thought but he has promiBed a deputation within the it was the ~oundc.:>t way to put the whole thing us a last week that he will intwduce an amendment genfrrs off the chain. They have got to surely must re.dise that statements like that can­ do just exactl:v as he tell• them. Yet we not b:" made in Parliarnent regarding another have been toid hy hon, msrnbers sitting opposite hon. member. I must really ask the hon. mem· tbat this part) are not free-that we are ber to withdraw that statement, as it is quite bound by some c"ncns or trinity. I claim contrary to our Stn.nding Orders. that this party are as fred ~s any party Mr. BO\VMAN : I withrlraw the words, and sitting in ~ny Parliament-free to criticise just snhstitnte that when the hon. gentleman and to vote wivhout any intimidation, and makes a pronriRe von are a1wavs lot.h to believe without fear of ny pressurf\ being brought to that it will be c 1rried out. That has been my bf'ar on fl.ny of our rnetnlH:~rs. It is -.;,veil known experience. On" is tempted at timt' to ,;ay fairly that some hon. member3 opposite have been strong things in this Honse when you know that squeezed, that ti·ey h:>,w been chained up and a man has tried deliberately t.n place this party locked up, so tbat the Government majority in a hhe po·ition by making false statements. might be saLJ. \Vhat position do the Govern­ ment find then has to carry nis majority with him l\Ir. BOW;\IAN: I do not know that any­ in hiH own rwr,on. (Langhter.) 'l'he bon. gentle­ thing- the hon. gentleman can do inside or ontside man knows that nothing can be done while he i>J the House will influence any electorate. \Ve away, and he is anxions that nothing should be are not. much troublerl about the opposition of done. \Vhen certain Premiers have gone away the hon. gentleman in either the House or the they have left one of their lieutenants in charge conntry. durmg their abs,·nce. T!1e :Secretary for Lands The TREASURE!\: \Ye ar J not troubled abont was Acting Prernhw tor a Hhort time on one occa~ yours either. sion, when he was in another Cabinet of another colonr. \Vhen ~Ministers have been tmvelling :\Ir. BO\V:\IAN : I have had to fight m~ way all over the conntry, they were al::le to lenve the a gTeat deal harder than the hon. gent.leman has ship of st11te in eharge of tbat old \'eterau who had to rln, and I have never ado[•ted the tactics belongs to another Cbaruber, and that hon. gen­ thr:,t he has done to get into Pariiament. tleman used to boast, "I can rnn the whole of The TnEASUHF.R: I have a! ways been straight, the devartrnent.':l." Kow, if the Governn1ent at any rate. ' are desirous of ?etting 011 with legislation, let l\Ir. BO\Y11L\.J'\: The bon. gentlemar< is one them go on. 'Ille House may determin' by a who ha~:; :lh.·av:' had to rely upr_ n Romebod .,. eltie na.rr<;w n1:1jority-a, rnajority of une-tha.t T,be to help hltn t 1 ge~ w h2re he i~~. I think that tbe hulJ. g~ ntit_•rnan shall go to i\lelhourne; :mt if b8 conference which i; to be held in Melbourne will gOt"b, l t!Jillk this Honse shonld contlnue tu ,it prove as futile at3 previous confPrenceH have and do it-; business. done; and, becaub8 I bavt3 no faith in th ,t con~ OrPOSl'l'ION nlE}!BERS: Hear, hear! ference, I shall votH ag,.inkt the Huu.,;e being adjourned in order to annv the PrelniPr to go Mr. EO\VniA~: It is outmc:eons thr~t the down to Melbourne. No Premier atr.cnding that Government shonld ask for an adjournment for CI)Ilf," rence will be more demeaned thaa the hon. a fortnight. \V by not close up altogecher? gentleman, l\1r. D. 1-ITJNTEH.: V¥.,. f-~ are not doing- business. Mr. MAXWELT,: \Yhat about the Premier of Mr. BO\V: who have to be obedient to there in the intecest of the workers of Aus­ their rr.aster. He was let off the chain for one tralia, and not in the in~Prest c)f c''Pitali:stic rings. night, and was enlog-ised very highly for t!:e as the major poetion of the Premiers have done. Mr. Rowman.] 592 Special Adjou1•nment. [ASSEMBLY.j Special Adjournment.

'l he Premier of this St,te will not go down to grown sugar have been had it not been for the the forthcoming conference with the consent of ]'ederal Parliament? And one of the Labour this side of the HousP. The most recent thing n1en who was instrumental in formulating that we have heard from tbe hon. gentleman in con­ scheme is the pre~ent leader of the Labour party nection with this matter is that the S;cate Pre­ in the Federal Parliament, l\Ir. Fisher. \Ve n1ier~ are going there to urge the Federal Go~ he,ve had more from the Federal Parliament vernment to introduce and paRR a Heferendum than any other State, atld we should be the last Bil1, nnder which the financial q:1estion will to endeavour to belittle that Parliament, as the be left to the people to decide. It is very Premier and some of hts colleague>· have done nnhkely that the Commonwealth Government fr,r some years. I say for the position of our will do that. \Ve know that the Pronier sugar industry to-day we are deeply indebted to is going tn that coufarpnce, not a.s the true the Federal Government. friend of this State, as he professros to be, but OPPOSI'l'ION l\IEMBEI\S : Hear, hear ! for another purpose. \V e know what he said when be put hts foot on the shores of ·"us­ Mr. BO\VMA:;o.<: \Ve are also deeply indebted tralia on bis return from the old country. to the Federal Government for tlmt which every He threw dcnm the ·; 1t1ntl o,t on that oc­ Anstraltan and every adopted Australian is c .rly of Queensland proud of. Tltat ;,_ we have laid clown tlte prin­ touk it up. \Ve kwnv that be n1ade a f.1lse ciple that I believe will work out successfully statenH nt rr~arding the ex-}'edernrl Prin1e ~Iin­ before very many years are over our heads--that i~ter. 11r. li'i;o5her, and n1yse1f, n1erely tn try to in tllis country that we boast of we have the brePrl. discontBllt among the v.-age-earner8 principle laid down that, so f ,r as possible, it of Qu<'enshnd, and that the said he was shall be for a \vhite people, and :,;, white pLople going to fjght the Labour Senators. Any only. rrmn expre~!-3ing hirnself as the Pr~~nti-(~r ha~ OPPOSITION ::IIEMBEHS : Hear, hear ! done shall nw, er gF:t a \ ote frum rne to a:;;;::;i~t Mr. BO"\VMAN: That we will not hd n..t any ti1ne ir: the opinion, .;ng ~~she po:~--:~biy ea~. I-L "~ks rnovement-they f<1,ve c In)Jlimentt:•d t,hern on thnt thi" H.111Se:-:bould be c~o_c:cl frnrn to-r.ucn-ro~\ dealing with tbe qqestion in it, Htrly gro\vth, till tbe 2-Hll instant, merely , ~ify hirn:-elf tlld and I iJpJie\·e thev bave settled ~vlw· rnig!:t have ltlt:HJhurs ale fruHt tile lwn. who nn +-~le b8en a danger to .._-\.ustnllia had it bet·n dependent bench ·with hin1. I do not know v;ht~ther t,h,3 on the old euntlnnous GovernmPtt tlw•. so lo·ng Treasurer is gc,ing ~Nith hiln ag Lin. Of C')Ur e ru]i d (2ueen~land; and they are the n1en who he may be a sotuc;J of strength. to-rhv an'l ::tl'l·,oeiatcd w1th the prr- 1ent Prernier Mr. BLAIH: \Vhy should he not? of queen~land who w.tnts to gr1 to th.-tt con­ ference. It wa· ne~ the \Vish of tho,.:;e hon. Mr. BOWMAN : He may be a source of rr1embe.rs tha,t we.· honld u,et ri(l of : ~ack lal1onr, strenccth to the PrelHier if he do" go, but we hut it was th0 ~,gitati~·n of the .Lnbour part.y have ah~ ~1., H been letl to bAJieve that, as fi2a­ throu~hout (/,ue'•n,Lmd o.nd the Lahl'llr party sul'er, he wu~ rnereJy a. figurehe-cCl. thrl)ughout the Cornrnmnvc:1hh-hacke l. by a l\lr. R~LA:>n: He can ntrry a port m 'nteau. nninber of democl:' •b; in e?Jch Cl the ;:)nntbcrn (Lau"hter.) Stn,teR-t1m.t h:1-.s n1:'.d.e .Austr _di wh:-tt tbey de::;ired iG to he-nnroe)y, a white rn~n\; Ci'Untr.r. }\ ~ r. BO \V ~I AX : fie wnnlrl 1~e (1oing practical v. ork if be \Vas c •.rr.l·iu)-4" tbe Premit.: 's portn.an­ J'vir. D. HuNTJm: \Vhat were the views of the Prirne ~Iitlister on th<1t qnetltjon? teau, but I LUk2 it the hon. gc ntlt:rnau will take his 1ne"sunger, :_.s he ln._ fonuerly Gone. I think :;Ir. BO\VMAN: Y on mean j\T r. IJeakin. I n1y:-Jelf t~L~ t Hll tl1is ktlk a, o~:.t the l1'edt-r tl Go­ think he was in fJ.vour of a \Vhite "' .. _\ustrt:J.Jia". I verrnnerj t--~tll tLis wr 1ngling about the Federal referred to thl ma''Y democrats throughout the Govt; nuH~nt for ~· t~ars-un thu part c,: State Southern Sthtc.s, [lnd also the agitalion of the Prenli r~, ha·t be ·n t) 111110~1 envy :...nd bite-ernes::; Labour party to bring that about . .But du r,o;, for­ agn,in·, t!1e Con:.mmnvea1th. They have raised get th9.t we had many, many years of h rd fighting thA cry of State rights. They l1ave raised in Quet"'l"land. \Ve b d an Act pas,ed that was the C'ry th·1t ihe }?ede"'ll G :)vernmrnt were not going to stop it-as far back as 1802-alld we had going to do the Ltir tlnng by tlwm. I arn a Prernier who went baek on hi;-. pror1iscs, merely prepart-d to trust. the Federal Governrnent to to please the power, tbat existed at that time­ do a Lcir thing by e1.ch of the St>1t' s of the sugce it has been to Queensland, and that is a and if there is one State in Australi" that owes page in our history that is not pleasant to look a debt of gr,ttitucle to the Commonwealth Parlia­ back upon. But the history that has been made ment it is Queensland. eince, through the instrumentality of the Federal 0PPORITJO:" ME}!BERS: Hear, hear ! Parliament, is, at any rate, something to be proud of. The Labour party, m conjunction Mr. BO\Vl'IIAN: They have done more to with other democrats of Australia, were instru­ push Queensland along, and I suppose Queens­ mental in improving the conditions, so far as land has received greater benefits at the hands the sugar industry is concerned, and a number of the :Federal Government, than any other of other matters that conld be enumerated SLate. \Vhere would the black labour question here. We have a very ~reat deal for which have been to-day ha,d it uoc been for the Federal to thank the l<'ederal Parliament. They Parliament? Where would the bonus to white- were the first in Anstralia to give as adnlt [Mr. Bowman. Special Adjournment. [4 AUGUST.] Special AdJournment. 593 suffrage. We copied them, after the Federal Mr. HERBERTSON (Port Curtis): I beg to Parliament had granted adult suffrage to the move the adjournment of the debate. whole of Australi:t. Then theven admit that why a debate of this importance should be it would be a g.lOd thing to have women here adjourned at this hour. It should be fully as members of Parliament. I think it was the discussed, and should be discussed under such hon. member for Townsville, in ,;peaking at a circumstances that every member who speaks meeting the other night, who snirl that be had bad can get a full report of his speech in H ansard, his doubts about the wisdom of giving the women which is impossible under present circum­ votes; but, after his o>:perienc , he uow thought stances. As to the the difficultie; that stawl in the way important business~the want of confidence regarding- thi;.;; drink que,.ti1m ; and, if the motion. I think it is only rod.sonable now to Guvennuent are desirous of getting on with this adjourn the debate and allow members to get legislation, I am sure that the 'secretary for rrop·cr rt"t, so that they may oome back Puhlie Instrucci,m~ I do not know thttt it to-morrow with all their faculties ready for could be in uetter haods~because I believe business. that hon. gentlerrwu is sincere in his ten1perance principles, aud wuuld d11 his bPst to rn. ke that * :\lr_ :\IA:\1\: I think the reqneot fer the Bi!l as stnngent aJ fJOc~sib:e, Rn as to le-.sen the adjournment of the debate is an eminently trouble that exists at the JH'f,,e l'u tirut-- thl'oU'rh rPasunable one, and I can see no valid reason that curs-:-', Tiw.t iti not puH~i I.J1e, bee._.. use the why we should stay to-night to a later hour hon. geut!en1~u1 h~;:::1 not dJ;J,rgo of tlo(~ dtpart­ than usual. I think the House has adJourned ment, but if the H·•rne Secn-tccry, l\lr. Appel, every night since we met this session before 11 or any ot,her 1\liniHter, intruducf-' i this legislt­ o· clock. \V e havo soen no anxiety on tho part tiou-let us havt-: a look as to tl1A nature of the of the Government to do business. If the Bill, and if the provi::-.idnS are sa~isfactory, then Premier were in earnest in this matter, we we could detennine :..t.bont getting 011 \vith the v. ould have been sitting later several nights legislation that they have sta· eel they are so ago, and he would have given notice of motion anxious to place on the statute-book. to sit four days a week, The Government do not de -ire to pass the measures mentioned in Mr. RYLAND: There is no need for the Pre­ mier to be here at all. the Governor's :Speech; they simply desire to waste as much time as they can over the ::\lr. BOWMAN: My opinion is that we could Estimates, and pass such railways as are. get along all right without him. While there nccc--.arv to bind to them the followers who may be equal numb<'rs on both sides, the party object t; their present tactics. At the end of opposrte can depend on the ca,ting vote of the last session tho hon. member for Cambooya Speaker or the Chairman to carry them receiYed a promise in writing, I understand, through~ they still have that hope left to them. that he would get a railway from Pittsworth to (Opposition laughter.) I do not 1\fillmerran. It was asserted on the floor of thrs [11.30 p.m.] intend to spe:ck at greater length. House that last session the hon. member for I intend to oppose the proposed ..t-\ubi,rny went out of this I-Iouse making adjournment for so long a time. I do not threats that if a certain rail way proposal he think any good n·.mlt will accrue from the wanted wa,, not tabled within the next day or conference. I think the Premier is going two h<' would withdraw his alle!l"iance from the down as no other Premier will go-with a Government. ln the inter<>sts of the State the majority of one. The hon. member for Burke House should adjourn, because there were has interjected that South Australia may be in several members on the Opposition side who a similar position; but they do not know yet, wish to study the question, and see what would because I do not think they have taken a vote be the best possible scheme for the delegate on the no-confidence motion. The Premier has from tho Queensland Parliament to lay before narrowly averted three defeats, and I don't the conference. It has been alleged by mem­ think he can feel very proud of the position he bers on the Opposition side that these confer­ may take up at the conference. Anything I ences served no purpose at all, but were simply can do to prevent the adjournment asked for champagne-swilling picnics. will be done, and I trust that the same stand The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, orderl will be taken by every hon. member on this side of the House. Mr. MANN: My language may be strong, and might be considered unparliamentary, but OPPOSITION MEMBERS: He.ar, hear! 1909~2 p Mr. Mann.] 594 Special Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Sperial AdJournment.

I believe it is true. These conferencBs are to come back into the Chamber and announ­ rothing less than picnics. Th€ main dBsir€ that he is willing to adjourn the House at a of the Premier to go to l'llBlbourne is thB same reasonable hour, as he feels that t.hG interests as that which actuated him when he went to of Queensland and the Commouwea.Jth should the old country. He wishes to go to :\1€1· be propertly attended to at the next conven­ bourn€ and po'o as the ·big strong man of tion-that he is willing to give the matter QuBensland. He wishes to exhibit his portly most eamest study, so that financial experts, figure in Melbourne and say, " Alone I did like the hon. member for Fitzroy, the hon. it." He wishes to give the people in :\Iel­ memher for vYoolloongabba. and other hon. bourn€ the imnression that h€ holc!s Queens­ members of that calibr€. may give their views land in the pafm of his hand, and that, if 1\Ir. on that matter. If the hon. member for Deakin will not agrBe to his proposals, he will Fitzroy had been at the last conference, he wipe out the Fcd•ora.l Parliament and rul€ would. have acC€pted the proposals of Sir Australia as a dictator. He wishes to convey John Forrest, and we should not have been to the people of Melbourne that he is the a.sked to prorogue ParliamBnt for nineteen Cromw€11 of Australia. davs to enable the Premier to go down to Mr. MURPHY: The la.te Secr!:'tary for Public M~lbourne. The whole matter would have Instruction called him the Cromwel! of Aus­ been settled, and we should have been dis­ tralia. cussing useful Bills. 'Ve have had six or scv<'n ,, conferences already, and no good has :\Ir. MANN: I understand th>Lt tho late resulted. I think the Premier is ill-advis<;'d Secretary for Public Instruction referred to in the action he is taking. The people m the Premier as "Our Cromwell." He referred :\Telbourne will .say that he has only got to him as the Cromwell of Australia, who was awav from his own State by prorogum[\ Par­ going to curb the member for Townsville, lian{ent, as he could not trust Parl~a· and he was going to offer to the hon. membei· ment while h~ was away. If the Prem1-;r for Townsville the same treatment that Oliver or his colleague goes down to Melbourne, 1t Cromwell mBted out to Charles I. The Pre· is quite evident they will only reprcser;t the mier always wants to ram his policy down the views of members on the Government s1de of throats of everyone associated with him. I the House. As I like a good audience when understand that in his early days in Rock· I am speaking, I call attention to the state hampton he was an officer in one of the volunteer regiments, and because he could of the House. not get his own way he burst up that regiment. :\Ir. \VOODS: I call attention to the state Mr. CovNE: 'rhey drummed him out. of the House. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is a :Yir. MAKN: I supposo it is because he tried quorum. (Government laughter.) to make the people. of Falkirk swallow his opinions that ha was drummed out of Falkirk, Mr. MANN: The Bmpty, hollow laugh of as "as so grandiloquently described by the m

the delegate from Queensland. The hon. Chamber all night, would not be in a fit condition gBntleman knows the difference between a to discuss the important financial question which delBgatB and a representative. would come up at a later hour of the dav. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I think The debate was further continued ;n similar thB hon. member will see that his remarks lines by Mesqrs. DoUGLAS and LENNON. would be mm-e in order if made upon the At 5.50 o'clock a.m., previous discussio-n. The q'uestion before the House is the adjo-urnment o.f the debate. I The SPEAKER resumed the chair. shall be glad if the hon. member will associ­ Mr. LENNON, continuing, argued that the . ate his remarks with that question. House should be adjourned to allnw hem. mem­ bers who had been appointed delegates to the Mr. WOODS: Hon. members should be al­ Local Authorit.ieR' Conference an opportunity of lowed time to consider who should go to Mel­ attending that conference. bourne to the conference. This should not be a party question-it should be a question for At two minutes to 6 o'clock a. m., Queensland. The PREMIER : I beg to move that the Mr. COTTELL: vVhy make it a party question? question be now put. Mr. WOODS: The hon. member will have The SPEAKER : I think the question has an opportunity of speaking on this question if been debatec: at sufficient length. he dare. It is evident to every Mr. LENNON: I do not understand the hon. [12 p.m.] member in the Chamber that dur- gentleman. ing the discussion of the previous Mr. HAMILTON : He has honoured you with question the Premier did hi• level best to get the ''gag," that is all. the Speaker to o.ccept a motion, "That the question be now put." Question-That the question (that the debate be adjourned) be now put-pnt; and the House The DEPUTY SPEAKElt: Order ! I can­ divided:- not allow such a statement to be made. It is AYES, 32. highly improper to impute motives either to the Mr. Appel Mr. Hawthorn Premier or to any other hon. memb"r; and I ask ~· Armstrong H Hunter, D. the hon. member to be good enough to withdraw , Barnes, G. P. " Jackson the statement. , Barnes, W. H. , Kidston ,. Barton , MftXwell Mr. WOODS withdrew the statement, bnt , Brennan , Moore hon. members werB justified in drawing their , Cottell , Paget own conclusions from the frequent visits from , Oowap , Petrie the Premier's position to the Speaker's chair. , Oribb , Philp ,. Denham , Rankin Seeing the Premier admitted tbe param<'unt im­ , F01·sytll , . Somerset Portance of settling- the financial relations between , Fox , Stodart the Commonwealth and the States, it was abso­ ,. Grant ,, Swayne lutely nece'Sary that the Hon"e, in its present , Gra:rson , Thorn mood, should adjourn. Gunn , ·walker , Hanran , White Mr. ALLEN (Rulloo) thuught the Premier Tellers: ~fr. White and Mr. Somerset. would be well ad vi sed if he allowed the debate to be adjourned. During the rest of the session NOES, 31. the House had adjourned at an early hour, and Mr. Airey ::\fr. Lennon , Al1en , Lesina there was no reason why that practice should be , Barber llfann departed from. ,, Blair May At 12.25 o'clock a. m., , Bowman , 1\fcLachlan ,, Coyne ~iitchell The SPJ!AKER resumed the chair. , Douglas Mulcahy The debate was continued by Messrs. ,. Hamilton MUilan KENNA, HARDACRE, BLAIR, LAND, MITCHELL, " Harducre ~1urphy WINSTANLEY, HUXHAM, and MULCAHY. H Rerbertson Nevitt , Hunter, J. M. Payne At ten mim.tes past 3 o'clock a.m., ,. Huxham Ryl~nd The SPEAKER said: I call npon the hon. , Jones Sumner member for Ipswich, Mr. Maughan, to relieve ,, Kenna Winstanley ,, Kerr Woods me in the chair. , IJa.Dd Mr. MAUGHAN thereupon took the chair 1'ellers: lllr. Allen and Mr. 1\olann. accordingly. PAIRS. Mr. MULCAHY, resuming his speech, argued Ayes-~ir. Keogh and Mr. Roberts. that it was unreasonable that members should be Noes-Mr. Jenkinson and Mr. Redwood. compelled to remain at their posts till that hour Resolved in the af!irmative. of the morning, w!wn the.y were so drowsy and fatigued as to he really ,mfit to transact pnblic Question-That the debate be now adjourned business in a ~a.tisfactory manner. -put ; and the House divided :- The debate was further continued by ~fessrs. AY.Es, 32. MAY and MURPHY. Mr. Airey Mr. Lennon Allen , Lesina At 4.30 o'clock a. m., , Barber Mii.nn Mr. WOODS asked the Speaker's ruling as to , !Hair Maugban whether hon. members were in order in placing , Bowman , J.VIay , Coyne ]IJaLachlan their feet on the benches, and thereby damaging , Douglas l\litchell the property of the House. The Buildingil Com­ Hamilton :\iulcahy mittee appointed by the House had drawn atten­ , Hardacre Mullan tion to the matter early in the SeSsion. , Herbertson Murphy H Hunter, .T. M. Nev1tt The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I rule that, under , Huxbam Payne the epecial circumstance,, hon. members are in , Jones Ryland order in using the benches as they are doing. , Kenna Sumner ., Kerr Wim~tanley Mr. MURPHY, continuing his speech, argued .. T,and ,. Woods that hon. members, if they were kept in the Tellers: Mr. Barber ana Mr. McLachlan. 596 Special Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Special Adjournment.

NoEs, 33. or seven minutes past 11 o'clock when he came ~Ir. Appe! Mr. Hunter, D. to me. In justification of Mr. May's absence I , Armstrong , Jackson make this explanation . ., Harnes, G. P. , Kidston ,, Earnes, W. H. , :Vlackintosh Mr. MURPHY: I heard him say that he made J?t1rton ,, Maxwell the arrangement. ,, Hrennan , ::\lloorB , Ootte!l , Paget Mr. WALKER (Wide Bay): I ibink it is , Cowap , Petrie only fair, in view of the statement of the leader Oribb , Philp of the Opposition, that I should make one, too. Denbam ,, Rankin (Hear·, hear!) Mr. May and I did haven talk, , Forsyth , Somerset and he said he would go and see his leader with Fox , Stodart Grant ,, Swayne regard to pairing for one bour, and I said I would ,, Grayson ,, Thorn go and see my "Whip." I had orders not to Gunn , Walker pair; I \old Mr. May, and he then went away. ,, Hanran , White When Mr. May comes back he will be able to , Hawthorn confirm what I have said. Tellers: Mr. Oribb and 1\Ir. Moore. GOVERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PAIRS. Division declared- Ayes-Mr. Jenkinson and Mr. Redwood. Noes--Mr. Keogh and Mr. Roberts. AYEs, 33. Resolved in the negative. Mr.Appel ~r. Hunter D. , Armstrong , Jackson Mr. HARDAORJ

Nmos, 31. Mr. Airey :lfr. Lennon , Allen Lesina , Barber , .l:Iann Rlair " liaugban Bowman :V[cLachlan , Coyne Mite hell ., Doug-las , Mulcahy , Ha.milton " )fullan llardacre }lurphy , Herbertson Nevitt , Hnnter, J. ~L Payne ,, Huxham Ryland Jones Sumner Kenna Vrinstanley , Kerr ~~oods ,, Land Tellers: 1fr. Hamilton and Mr.llardacre.

PAIRS. Ayes-:\fr. Keog-h and :Mr. Roberts. Noes-}!r. Jenkinson and l\Ir. Redwood. Resolved in the affirmative.

ADJOURNMENT. The PRE:\liER : I move that the House do now adjourn. The SPEAKER: The question is that this House do now adjourn. Those who are of that opinion say'' Aye"; on the contrary, "No." I think the "Noes" have it. OPPOSITION MEli!BERs : Divide ! The PREMIER : I claim the votes of all those members who called "Divide." (Loud laughter.) The SPEAKER : If the voices of those who called "Divide" are counted with the "Ayes," I think the vote would be un~tnimou8. (Renewed laughter.) I will put the question again. Question again put ; and the House divided :­ AYEs, 33 ~Ir. Appel )Jr. Hunter, D. , , Armstrong , Jackson , EarneR, G. P. Kidston , llarnes, 1V. I-I. :\1 ackintosh Barton Maxwell , Brennan :lVIoore Cottell ,, Pagct , CowHp l'etrie ., Cribb , Philp Den ham Ran kin , Forsyth , Somerset Fox Stodart , Grant Swayne Gray son Thorn· Gunn Walker , 1-Ianr:.tn White Hawthorn Tellers: :J.1r, Armstrong and )Ir. Grayson. X ems, 32. ~lr. A irey J:lr. Lennon All en Lesina Barber l\lcLachlan nlair J.\:Iann ., Bowman , Maughan ,. Ooync }lay , Douglas )iitchell ,, Hamilton mulcahy Hardacre l\:Iullan HP-rbertson ~furphy , Hunter, J. lL ?>evitt Huxbam Pttyne Jone:'l , Ryland , Kenna :sumner , Kerr Winstanley ,, Land Woods TEllers: )fr. Allen and ~Ir. Lennon.

PAIRS . .Ayes-~Ir. Keogh and 1'fr. Roberts. Noes-:\Ir. Jenkinson and Mr. Redwood. Resolved in the affirmative. The House adjourned at fifteen minutes to 12 o'clock a. m.