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Disclaimer: Please note this is only a raw translation for the purpose of Dec 2014 parayan, please do not circulate or share. Aptavani 3 [CH 7 ] A Series of Questions About the Self! Difference, Based on Veils of Ignorance! Questioner: Does the body exist on the basis of the Self (Atma) or does the Self (Atma) exist on the basis of the body? Dadashri: If the Self (Atma) is there, then the body „stands‟ (lives). Questioner: The Atma of an agnani (one without Self-realization), the Atma of a Gnani (One with Self-realization) and the Atma of One who has attained moksha (final liberation); what is the difference in the energies of these three? What can the Siddhas (absolutely liberated Ones) do? The omniscient One (Sarvagnya) can do whatever He wishes. Dadashri: The Atma of the agnani appears to be in bondage (bandhan), whereas the Atma of the Gnani is in freedom-bondage (abandha-bandha). From certain perspectives, it appears to be bound, and from other perspectives, it appears to be unbound. Whereas the absolutely liberated Ones (Siddha Bhagwanto) always remain free (abandha), they remain in moksha only. The absolutely liberated Ones are no longer in a position to „do‟ anything. Only One (Gnani Purush) with a body (dehadhari) can do whatever He wishes. The energy of the absolutely liberated Ones is completely developed, but it is of no use to anyone. Questioner: By its swabhaav (inherent nature), by its gunadharma (intrinsic properties that have a specific function), (the Self) is indeed the same; then on what basis is there a difference in the energies? Dadashri: That difference is on the basis of avaran (veil of ignorance). Questioner: Through which energy do the phases (avastha) of an element (vastu) change? Dadashri: Through the element of time (kaad tattva). As time changes, the phases keep changing. Questioner: Is there any relation between Gnan (Knowledge) and hridaya (the heart)? Dadashri: Both have nothing to do with each other. The heart is relative, and Knowledge is real. But only when the heart is pure, can one begin to quickly progress in Gnan. Questioner: Can the Kevali (One who has absolute Knowledge and is in the final body before ultimate liberation) see the Atma? Dadashri: A Kevali can see the Atma through Gnan. To See means to become aware (bhaan) and to Know means to have the experience (anubhav). It is a formless (aroopi) state; it can be experienced. Questioner: Besides the Kevali, can others behold the Self? Dadashri: No. Freedom from Ignorance is Indeed Moksha! Questioner: What does the Self (Atma) have to become free from? Dadashri: First, it has to become free from ignorance (agnan), then it has to become free from the effects that have arisen out of ignorance. Questioner: It is said that there is moksha of the Soul, is this moksha some kind of a geographic location? Dadashri: It is true that it is a geographic location, but in reality, You are indeed moksha swaroop (inherently in the form of liberation)! Questioner: The Self (Atma) and the absolute Self (Parmatma) are indeed different. They both have some relationship, do they not? Dadashri: They are not different. The Self is indeed the absolute Self. The difference lies only in the state (dasha). When you come home, you are Chandubhai, and when you sit in the office, they you are considered a collector. It is like „Hu, bavo ne Mangaldas‟ (Hu: I, the awakened Self; bavo: the one with the beliefs and anger-pride-deceit-greed; Mangaldas: the physical body)! Questioner: When the Atma and Parmatma become one, that is considered the final stage, right? Dadashri: Yes, that is called the final stage. There is nothing left to do beyond that. The Matter and Place of the Soul! Questioner: In what way does the Self (Atma) reside with respect to place (kshetra)? Dadashri: The place of the Self (swakshetra) is that of its infinite pradesh (the smallest amount of space that a single parmanu occupies on the Soul). I do not actually mean to say its location. Swakshetra has been described to remove one from parkshetra (the location of the non-Self). Questioner: Does the dravya (matter) of the Self (Atma) change? Dadashri: The swadravya (inherent matter) of the Self (Atma) does not change. However, all the dravya (karmic effect experienced through the mind, speech, or body) that apply to the Self due to worldly intents (sansarbhaav) keep changing. The location (kshetra) keeps changing, the time (kaad) keeps changing, and based on this, the intent (bhaav) keeps changing. Fear arises when one goes to a place that is scary. The intent of every living being keeps changing from one samaya (the smallest, most indivisible unit of time) to the next. Questioner: Are there different types of Souls (Atma)? Dadashri: No, Souls are of one type only. Questioner: Does the Self (Atma) have attachment-abhorrence (raag-dwesh)? Dadashri: No, attachment-abhorrence is not a property (guna) of the Self. Attachment- abhorrence happens due to wrong belief. The Self is Indeed the Absolute Self! Questioner: Please explain, „The Self (Atma) is indeed the absolute Self (Parmatma).‟ Dadashri: In the relative, it is the Self, and in the real, it is the absolute Self. As long as there is trading of temporary things, it is the worldly self (sansari atma), and when One is not in worldly life, then One is the absolute Self (Parmatma). If one who worships the relative, then one is temporary (vinashi), and the One who worships the real, is the absolute Self. If you have awareness (bhaan), then reside in the absolute Self, and if you do not have awareness, then you are „Chandubhai‟ (the relative self). Questioner: By realizing the Self (Atma), what should I understand that I have attained? Dadashri: Eternal bliss. Questioner: The Self (Atma) is chetan (life energy). Is it eternal or does it dissolve? Does its state change? Dadashri: The Self (Atma) is eternal; it remains just as it is. Just as the state of gold does not change when gold and copper are mixed together in a ring, its gunadharma (intrinsic properties that have a specific function) do not change. In the same way, the gunadharma of the Self (Atma) do not change even though the Self resides with the non-Self (anatma). Moreover, gold can be separated by a (chemical) process. Questioner: The chetana (energy of the Self) in a grain of wheat is different from that in a bird, isn‟t it? Dadashri: No, the chetana is the same; in me, in you, and in a grain of wheat, the chetana is the same, but there is a difference in the veils of ignorance (avaran) of each one. Questioner: Can chetan (life energy) govern others? Dadashri: No, everything functions only through its‟ contact. Due to the pressure of circumstances, a belief arises that, „I am doing this.‟ Despite being in this vibhavik bhaav (delusionary intent that „I am Chandubhai‟), the Self always remains in swabhaavik bhaav (original state as the Self). Questioner: All the elements remain in a corpse, do they not? Dadashri: No. Matter (pudgal) and space (akash), only these two elements remain. The rest dissipate. Then all the elements separate and each goes back into its original elemental state. Questioner: But even there (in the corpse) space is taken up, isn‟t it? Dadashri: The original element of matter (pudgal) has its own natural space indeed. But the body (deh) that is formed through the agglomeration of these other parmanus (the smallest, indivisible and indestructible, particle of matter), also takes up space. After the Atma (Self) departs, they all come into their original elemental state. Questioner: If a person has made the firm resolve to remain in the state as the Self (swaroop), is that through the intellect (buddhigamya)? Does this happen through the mind? Or is it beyond that? Dadashri: To remain in the state as the Self is totally beyond the mind, intellect and everything else. However, one has to have Self realization. The mind is completely physical. The State of the Self During Sleep! Questioner: I went to sleep at night and woke up in the morning. Who is the one who knows that there was uninterrupted sleep until morning? Dadashri: All these; the mind, intellect (buddhi), chit (inner component of knowledge and vision), and ego are the function (dharma) of the antahkaran (inner instrument of the human body consisting of the four faculties listed above). Atma chaitanya (the Self) is the part without action (akriya); it is the Knower-Seer (Gnata-Drashta) and akriya. In all of this, if the antahkaran becomes akriya (without activity) then the effect of being filled with pleasure prevails. When one sleeps at night, then one has become akriya; and the pleasure of this prevails. As long as there is activity (kriya), the pleasure decreases. One sleeps with egoism, and one wakes with egoism. And the one who says, “There was uninterrupted sleep until morning,” is also the ego. Questioner: Is there any inkling of the Self (Atma) in it? Dadashri: No, no. Questioner: What is the state of the Self (Atma) after we fall asleep at night? Dadashri: The One who continuously remains in the awareness of pure Soul (Shuddhatma) remains in that very state even in sleep. And the one who has the awareness of, „I am Chandubhai‟; the awareness that, „I am Chandubhai‟ does not leave him even in sleep. That is why he says, “I slept wonderfully.” Hey, you were asleep, so who is the one that knows this? It is the ego that knows this.