Elclltll s.t•• Vol. LIII. No.2 ThundaYt october 12. 1989 As,IDa 20, 1911 (Sat.)

LOK SABHA DEBATES (English Version)

Fourteenth Session - Second Part (Eightb Lok Sabba)

(Vol. LIII contains Nos. 1 to 3)

LOK SABHA. SECREl'ARlAl' NEW DELHI

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[Eighth Series, Vol. LIII, FOuI1genth Ssssion-Second Part, 1989/1911 (Saka)) Thursday, October 12, 1989/Asvina 20, 1911 (Saka)

COlUlANS

Papers Laid on the Table 6

Messages from Ralya Sabha 7

Nagalano U"i'v'erslty Bill 7 As passed by Rajya Sabha---Lald

Public Accounts Committee 8 Hundred and Sixty-sixth Report--Pre~enfed

Business Advisory Committee 8 Seventy-fIfth Repor1-Adopted

Bills-Introduced 9-10

(1) Governors (emoluments, allowances and privileges) 9 Amendment 8111

(2) Scheduled castes and Scheduled tribes orders 9-10 (amendment) bill

Matters Under Rule 377 11-15

(I) Need to provide llecessary assIstance to the State Government 11 of Orissa for construction of a stadium at Oeogarh In memory of late Pnme M'nlster Smt. Indira Gandhi

Shn Snballav Panigrahl

(II) Need to supply adequate quantity of sugar and rice to Orissa 11-12 for distribution through Public Distribution System

Shn Chlntamam Jen'=\

(IIi) Need to take measures for early payment of crop Insurance 12 dues to the farmers of GUlarat

Dr. Dlgvijay SInh (II )

COLUMNS

(IV) Need to ensure adequate compensation to the farmers of Deihl 12-13 whose land had been acquired by the Government

Shrt Sharat Singh

(v) Need to take steps to re-dp.velop Azhlkkal port In Cannanore, 13-14 Kerala

S~rr Mullappally Ramachandran

(VI) Need to take st!-1pS to revitalIse small sc,ale industrial units In the 14 Country

Shn A Charles

(VII) Need to streamline the procedure regarding Issue of sugar factory 15 Itcences In the country particularly In backward areas

Shn Uttam Rathod

Statutory resolution (€:I continuance In force presidential proclamation 15-:~2 In respect of Karnataka for a further penod of SIX months from 21 st October. 1989

Shn P Chldambaram 16-14 30-32

Shn P Kolandal'Jelu 17-20

Dr G S RaJhans 20-21

Shn Ram Bhagat Paswan 21

Shn G S BasavaraJu 21-22

Shn Syed Shahabuddm 22-23

Shn Asutosh Law 24

Kumar! Mamata Banerjee 24-27

Shn Yogeshwar Prasad Yogesh 27-29

Shn T V Chandrashekharapa 29-30 (til)

COLUMNS

Statement by the Pnme MinIster re: Agricultural package 33-40

Shn RiJlv Gandhi

Statutory Resolution re continuance In force of the presldent,,",1 40-87 proclamation In respect of Punjab for a further penod of SIX months from l' th November, 1989

Shn P. Chldambaram 40-43 78-87

Shrt Syed Shahabuddtn 43-47

Shn V,rdhl Chandar Jain 47-49

Shr K 0 Sultanpun 49-52

Prof. Salfuddtn Soz 52·55

Shn N Tombl Singh 55-60

Shn Kalt Prasad Pandey 60-62

Shn Srtballav Panlgrahl

Shr, Abdul Ra~hld Kabull 66-70

Shrt Jagannath Pattnalk 70-71

Shn Janak Raj GJpta 71-73

Shn Glrdhan Lat Vyas 73-76

Shn Shantaram Nalk 76-78

St'atement b~ mlnl~ter ra malrtenance of a bank account 87-89 In St Kitts.

Shn Eduardo Falelro

D,SCUSSion under Rule 193 89-121 Communal SituatIOn In the Country-Contd. 133·144

Shn Naresh Chandar Chaturvedi 89-96 (IV)

CoLUMNS

Shn P Selvendran 96-102

Shn Zalnul Basher 103-; 08

Shrt Syed Shahabuddln 108-118

Prof Ntrmala Kumart Shak1awa1 118-121

Shn K J AbbasI 133-137

Shn P Chldambaram 137-144

Supplementary demands for grants (General). 1989-90-Contd 122-131

Shn A K PanJa 129-131

Shn G M Banatwalla 129-130

Appropriation (No 5) Bill, 1989 131-133

MotIOn to consider

Shn A K PanJa 131-132

CICluset> 2, 3 and 1 132-133

Motion to Pass

Shn A K PanJJ 133 LOK SABHA DEBATES

LOK SABHA PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: I have given a Calling Attention notice.

MR. SPEAKER: I think we have dis­ cussed It yesterday.

[ Translation] Thursday, October 12, 1989/Asvina 20, 1911 (Saka) SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABUL! (Sri­ nagar): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government has conferred on the people of Ladakh of the status of scheduled tribes and it is causing a lot of tension In various parts of Kashmir Valley and inthe backward areas like Poonch, The Lok Sabha met at two mmutes past Rajoun and Gulgulabgarh In Jammu which Eleven of the Clock was a population of lakhs of people. In view of the mounting violence and tenSion, the [MR SPEAKER m the Chair] Government has conferred thiS status on the people of Ladakh. ThiS IS very unfortunate. f [Eng/ish] think that it is a case of discrimination. It should have been given an impartial vIew. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnani): Shrimati Gandhi had also made a commit­ Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have given a Caning ment in this regard and It was also de­ Attention notice on the exorbitant price rise. manded that Gurjars and Bakarwals should be covered under it. I would like you to gUide MR SPEAKER: We will discuss it. us in thiS regard ... (lnterruptlons)

SHRI G.M. BANATWALlA: There IS so [English] much artifiCial shortage of essential com­ moditIes Justice should be meted out of the people of the State. Otherwise, thIS IS gOing to MR. SPEAKER. I think we are 1aklng it create tension and crrsls We are already up. suffering from thiS problem. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA: Please do [ Translation] it. Thank you very much.

MR. SPEAKER' Please give it In writ­ ) PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOl (Baramulla): ing. Sir, in drugs like Glucose, they have found fungus. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS MR. SPEAKER: No problem. 11 there is (SHRI P. NAMGYAL): f would like to say that time I we will take It up it was a long standing demand. It is not 3 OCTOBER 12, 1989 4 based on communal hnes. Muslims, Bud· to request th~ Government through you to dhist8 and Christians atso hve there. People launch a special drive for general category belonging to almost all the castes live there. people also because the Central Govern­ You are saying baseless things. Please Sit ment notHled vacancies should be filled and down, you should not say such ban on recruitment should be withdrawn. thrngs .. ( Interruptions) ( Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER Why are you making [ Translation] nOise? SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGt (Mandsaur)' (InterruptIons) Mr. Speaker, Sir, from time to time I have been raIsing thiS Issue here that In view ofthe MR. SPEAKER Please Sit down Don't condItion of the Naslrabad Mhow sectton of make no.se Jalpur-Bombay highway which passes through Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan. (InterruptIons) ThiS highway should be declared a National HIghway [English] There IS heavy traffic load on thiS road SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABUL! every You have also see that road and you know It body knows that In Ladhak, there IS commu­ very well that It IS very dlff,cultto pass through nal tensIon and violence and after that you the heavy traffiC on thiS road So, I would like have conferred thiS status on the people to make an appeal In thIS House through you there I do not oppose Ladhakls They are that It should be declared a NatIonal High­ part and parcel of the State (InterruptIons) way

MR SPEAKER Why are you shouting ( InterruptIons) unnecessarily? [EnglJsh] SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK (PanaJI) Sir, what action Government proposes to take SHRI T BASHEER (ChlraYlnktl) About with respect to US $ 21 million deposited In Mr, AJeya Stngh's assets and bank deposits, St Kitts Bank b, Mr AJeya Singh on five the MInister Mr Eduardo Falelro made a different accounts? Even passport docu­ statement In the other House I would re­ ments of Mr V P Singh and his son were quest him through you to make a statement submitted to Mr Me Lean. the functionary ot In thiS House also. We must know the facts the bank regarding his assets and regarding hIs de­ POSIts In the foreIgn account ThiS IS a very MR SPEAKER I do not know I am not serious thing and we want a diSCUSSion on concerned with Individual cases that subject also (InterruptIons)

SHRI SHANT ARAM NAIK Where does the money come from Sir? May be some [ TranslatIOn) money IS being provloed by CIA Ale we to take action against CIA? lInt~rruptJons) SHRI RAM NAGtNA MISHRA (Salem~ pur) Mr Speaker, Sir, recently, the price of KUMAR I MAMATA BANERJEE sugar was sky-rocketing In the country (Jadavpur) I want to congratulate our Government on the special dnve programme MR SPEAKER. What happened? for recrUitment of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Trrbes to the Central Govern- SHRI RAM NAGINA MISHRA. Sir, price ment services At the same ttme. I would like of sugar was sky rocketing Please listen to 5 ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Papers Laid 6 me Just for a minute. On the pressure from SHRI RAM NAGINA MISHRA. Mr. the Government, the rate was slightly re­ Speaker, Sir, I would again request you to duced. But it was fixed at Rs. 9 per kg. Sir, in direct the Government to fix price of sugar· view of this price rise, the sugarcane grower cane also on the basis of the existing price of IS also eager to know above the price he is sugar. going to get for his sugarcane. Through you,l would like to urge the Government to an­ MR. SPEAKER: We will take It up also nounce the price of sugarcane for 1he next during the discussion on price-rise. crushing season.

MR. SPEAKER: We are gOing to have a discussion on a Calling-Attention Motion on prlce-nse Please Sit down 11.07 1/2 hrs. ( InterruptIons) PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE [English] [English] SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU (Goblchettl­ palayam): About the Sri Lankan Issue, you Annual Report and review on the working promised, Mr. Speaker, Sir, even 10 August of Deihl Development Authority for 1987· Itself, that It would be taken up for discus­ 88 and a statement showing reason for sion. But It has not been taken up for diSCUS­ delay sion so far Sir, I understand, there IS an Accord between India and Sri Lanka with THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE regard to withdrawal of the IPKF from the Srt MINISTRY OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT Lankan Island What happened to that? The (SHRI DALBIR SINGH) I beg to lay on the Government has not come forward with a Table statement so far Why? Everyday 38, 40 or 50 people are being killed by the JVP ex­ (1) (i) A copy of the Annual Ad­ tremists and other people. What steps are ministration Report (Hindi actually being taken by the Government of and Engltsh versIons) of the India? They should come forward with a Delhi Development Author­ statement at least. Ifthere IS an Accord, after Ity for the year 1987~88 July 1987, automatically they have to make under section 26 of the Deihl a statement here. (Interruptions) Development Act, ,957.

[ TranslatIon] (II) A statement (HindI and English versions) regarding SHRI CHANDRA PRATAP NARAIN ReView by the Government SINGH (Padrauna) Mr Speaker. Sir, It has on the working of the Deihl been stated by the President of the Con· Development Authority for gress Party that morethan twenty lakhpeople the year 1987·88. have been affected by Kala-Azar In Bihar. So, I would request the Government to speed (2) A Statement (Hindi and English up the efforts being made for its eradication. versions) showing reasons for delay in laying the papers men· MR. SPEAKER: Doctor Saheb, even tioned at (1) above. [Placed in earlier, on two occasions, I have admitted Library. See No. LT-S347/89] calling-attention on this Issue But now when you are raIsing It again, we WIll once again ask the MinIstry. 7 ".slIQe from OCTOBER 12.1989 P.A.C. Repott 8 Reljya Sabha B.A. C. Report 11.oa hr •. 11 J)8 3/4 hra.

MESSAGES FROM RAJVA SABHA PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE (English) Hundred and Sixty-Sixth Report SECRETARY-GENERAL'SIr,'haveto report the following messages receIVed from (English) the Secretary-General of Rajya Sabha:-

(.) IIln accordance with the provi­ SHRI p, KOLANDAIVELU (Gobichetti. sIOns of rule 111 of the Rules palayam): Sir,l beg to present the Hundred of Procedure and Conduct of and Sixty-sixth Report (Hindi and English BusIness In the RaJya Sabha, versions) of the Public Accounts Committee I am directed to enclose a copy on Working of Land and Devel(.,::,>ment Of ofthe Nagaland University Bdl, hc..e. 1989, which has been passed by the RaJya Sabha at Its Sit­ ting held on the 11 th October. 1989 " 11.09 hrs. (II) "'n accordance WIth the provI­ SKlns of rule 127 of the Rules BUSINESS ADviSORY COMMITTEE of Procedure anc Conduct of Business in tho Rdlya Sabha. Seventy-fifth Report I am dIrected 10 Inform the lok Sabha that the Ra!ya Sabha. [EnglIsh) at Its sitting held on the 11 th Octoher 1q8~J. dgreed With­ out ar) r).mendment to the THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE SmalllndtJ~'nes Development MINISTAYOFPARLIAMEN fAAY AFFAIRS Bank of India Bill, 1989, which AND MINISTER OF STATE IN TUE PRIME was passed by the lok Sabha MINISTER'S OFFICE (SHRIMATI SHEILA at Its sitting held on the 28th DIKSHIT): I beg to move: July, 1989 "That this House do agree with the Seventy-fifth Report of the Business Advisory Comm ittee presented to the 11.081/2 hrs. House on the 11 th October, 1989."

[English) MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

NAGALAND UNIVERSITY BILL UThat this House do agree .with the AI passed by AaJya Sabha Seventy-fIfth Report of the Business Advisory Committee presented to the SECRETARY GENERAL: Sir, I lay on House on the 11 th October, 1989.· the Table the Nagaland University Bill, 1989, as passed by Rajya Sabha. ThB motion was adO{1ed 9 8ills Introdue«J ASVINA 20. 1911 (SAKA) Bl1Is Introduced 10 11.10 hr•• in thetists of Scheduled Castes and Sched· uled Tribes and for matter& connected there­ GOVERNORS (EMOLUMENTS, ALI.OW .. w~h." ANCES AND PRIVILEGES) AMEND­ MENT BILL· The motion was adopted

[English] DR. RAJENDRA KUMARI BAJPAI: Sir, I introduce the Bill. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN­ ISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF [English] HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBA­ RAM)). Sir, on behalf of Shri Buta Singh, I MR. SPEAKER: The House shall now beg to move for leave to introduce a Bilt take up matters under Rule 377. Shri Sribal­ further to amend the Governors (Emo1u­ lav Panigrahi. mants, Allowances and Privileges) Act, 1982. SHRI SRI BALLA V PANIGRAHI (Oaog­ MR. SPEAKER: The qUQstion is: arh): Before I raadthe statement under Rule 377, I seek your permission to raise one IIThat leave be granted to Introduce a matter which has also a bearing on this. My 8ill further to amend the Governors name was listed yesterday for this; but I (Emoluments. Allowances and Pnvi~ could not remain present in the House be­ leges) Act, 1982 " cause although I had set out from home on 9th itseff and I had given requisition for The motion was adopted accommodation in the train two days earlier to that, the railway authorities could not SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Sir, I intro­ provide us accommodations in the train duce the Bill. That is why I was-late yesterday. 50 also was the case with the Member of Parliament from 5undergarh. We had got into the train with our spouses and companions and we had to 11.10 1/2 hrs. get down from the train because they could not give us seats and berths in the train SCHEDULED CASTES AND SCHED­ although we hade given requisition earlier. I ULED TRIBES ORDERS (AMENDMENT) request you to take serious vIew on this so BILL- that such a situation will not occur agaIn at least in future. THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRYOFWELFARE (DR. RAJENDRA SHRI BRAJAMOHAN MOHANTY KUMARI BAJPAI): I beg to move for leave to (Puri): This is a very serious matter Sir. The introduce a Bill to atter the names of certain Parliament cannot function unless the rail­ castes and tribes in the lists of Scheduled way and the airline give us accommodation Castes and Scheduled Tribes and for mat­ in tims. My submission is that you may kindly ters connected therewith' . taka it up with the Ministry.

MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That leave be granted to Introduce a Bill to alter the names of certain castes and tribes

• Published in Gazette of India Extraordinary, Part II, Section 2. dated 12.10.1989. 11 Matters under OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rultl377 12 11.12 hre. purchase rice from the open market, where the rate has gone abnormally high. MATTERS UNDER RULE 377 I would request the Food and Civil [English] Supplies Ministry to supply adequate quan­ tity of sugar and rice to Orissa and enhance (I) Ne.d to provide necessary the quota for the State from the current assistance the State Govern­ month onwards. ment of Orissa for construction of a stadium at Oeogarh in (III) Need to take measures for early memory of late Prime Minister payment of crop Insurance Shrlmati Indira Gandhi dues to the farmers of GuJarat

SHRI SRIBALLAV PANIGRAHI (Oeog­ DR. DIGVIJAY SINH (Surendranagar): arh): Oeogarh in Orissa was one of the few In the State of Gujarat, there is considerable places where the then Prime Minister Shn­ agitation against the non-payment of crop­ mati Indira Gandhi addressed a mammoth insurance dues 10 the farmers. gathering on 30th October, 1984, the prevI­ ous day of her cruel assassination. In fitness Out of the total amount of claims of the of things a su~able memorial should be built farmers, only half has been paid so far and in this place. In this connection it is proposed the remaining continues to be outstanding. by the local people and Municipal Council to have a stadium built to be named after her. Immediate steps should be taken to The Union Government should render all give redress to the farmers for this just dues sorts of assistance for this noble work. for theirs before Diwali.

(II) Need to supply adequate quan­ [ Translation] tity of sugar and.rice to Orissa for distribution through Public (iv) Need to ensure adequate com­ Distribution System pensatlontothefarmersof Deihl whose land has been acquired SHRI CHINTAMANI JENA (8alasore): by the Government The levy sugar quota normally allotted to the State of Orissa has been reduced for the last SHRI SHARAT SINGH (Outer Delhi): few months, causing much hardships to the Mr. Speaker, Sir, consolidated of holdings common man, particularly the persons be­ has started in a number of villages in the rural low poverty line Poor consumers are not In areas of Delhi. Earlier, the farmers used to a position to purchase the required sugar get Just double area of residential land within from the open market, where It IS 50ld at the the Lal dora limits of their Village in lieu of rate of Rs. 12/- to As. 141- per kg. As the their agricultural land acquired by the Gov­ festive season IS on, there is heavy demand ernment. It means that they could get two for levy sugar by the poor people In addition, acres of residential land for one acre of their due to curtailment of quota of nce to the rice­ agricultural land. But today the Delhi Admini­ eating state of Orissa, the poor people, stration wants to give only a residential plot specialty the SC and ST community are in of 500 sq. yards to the farmers. The farmers great difficulty. The rice to be distributed are objecting to it, because if a farmer has under the much expected Jawahar ROJgar four sons, each of his sons can have a house Yojana is still to arrive for distribution to the constructed on a residential plot of only 125 beneficiarres. So, the common man who sq. yards and will keep his bullock carts, generally depends on the rice supplied carts driven by he-buffaloes and other such through Public Distribution system, \S fac- vehicles in the by tanas and way sides which mg lot of difficulties, as he has no means to Will block the passage of others. Earlier, the 13 Mattlrs under ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 377 14 farmers used to apply for a plot of land to extend all help to re-develop'it as a full­ j according to their requirements on the basis fledged harbour. of Qxchange of their agricultural land for the residential plot just half in size of their farm­ ing land. Now it should be done under the (vi) Nled to take steps to revitalise consolidation of holdings. Those farmers small scaJe Industrial units In whose cases have been decided by the High the country Court, are not getting the amount of compen­ sation. SHRI A. CHARLES (Trivandrum): The t urge the Central Governmenttogetthe small industrial sector is playing a very im­ amount of compensation immediately to the portant role in the industrial development of farmers by the Delhi Administration. More­ this country. But more than 60% units of this over, farmers are given compensation for vital sector are sick. In order to revitalise this their land at a very low rate. Appropriate sector and to revive the possible viable units, rules should be framed to give them reason­ the Reserve Bank of India has, by its circular able amount of compensation. dated 6.2.87, given a number of conces­ sions to the sick small scale industrial units. [English] As per revised guidelines, the banks will have to initiate any nursing programme or (v) Need to take steps to re-de­ steps for identifying the unit as sick only after velop Azhlkkal port In Cannan­ a lapse of five years. By that time, the sick ore, Kerats units would have perished for want of help.

SHRI MULLAPPALL Y RAMACHAN­ Urgent steps may kindly be taken to DRAN (Cannanore): Many of the once pres­ restore the status quo. tigious harbours and ports along the coast of Kerala are now neglected. Action may also be taken for ,imple­ menting the following proposals: One of the best natural riverine ports at Azhikkal in Cannanore, Kerala has now become hazardous due to sheer neglect and (1) SSI Units with investment in Plant lack of maintainances and dune that has & Machinery upto Rs. 10 \akhs formed at the mouth of the river has caused may be declared as Tiny Sector loss of several lives and vessels. It has also Units. jeopardized the working of the ship-breaking unit of Steel Industries Limited, Kerala, as (2) The interest on loans availed by the ships tor scrap are unable to enter the Tiny sector units should be fixed river. The Industry, fishing and commerce of as 40/0. The balance interest on this area has thus been deeply affected by loan should be borne by the State the neglect of this port. and Central Governments and paid to the financial institutions in In view of the setting up of the Naval the form of interest subsidy. Academy at Ezhimala, 12 kms. from this port, the need for development of the Azhikkal (3) The arrears of interest and penal Port has become more significant. h would interest due from sick units un· greatl~' contribute to the economic develop­ der this category should be ment of this District. waived.

I, therefore, request the Government to (4) Permanent Sales Tax exemp­ take Immediate steps to revive this Port and tion may be given to this sector. 15 St.t. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential 18 continuance of Proclamation in Karnataka (vII) Need to &treamllne the proce­ ISTEA OF STATE IN THE MINISTRV OF dur. r.gardlng I.au. of sugar HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHJDAMBA .. factory lanc•• In the coun· RAM): Sir, I bQg to move: try, particularly In the back­ wa,d .r••• UThat this House approves the continu­ ance in force 01 the Proclamation. dated SHAI unAM RATHOD (Rangoli): the 21 st April. 1989 in respect of Karna· Soma of the State Governments have failed taka, issued under article 356 of the to recommend cases for grant of sugar fac­ Constitution by the President for a fur­ tory licences in their respective areas. Unfor­ ther period of six months with effect tunatefYt this happened in the case of some from 21st October, 1989." chief promoters of sugar fadoMS among badtward classes. As the House is aware, in view of the then prevailing situation in Karnataka, the In soma cases, in spite of a directive Proclamation under article 356 of the Consti­ from High Courts to the State Governments tution in relation to the State of Karnataka to recommend such cases to the Central was issued on 21 st April, 1989 on the recom­ GoY.rnment for grant of sugar factory li­ mendation of the Governor and the State cences, it has been see that such cases Legislative Assembly dissolved. have not been actually recommended. The Proclamation issued by the Presi­ According to the Central Government's dent was approved by the Lok Sabha as well Press n01e dated 2.1.1987 it is essent;al for as the Rajya Sabha on 26th April, 1989. The the screening committee of the Civil Sup· Proclamation so approved will now cease to plies Department of Government of India to operate on 20. 10. 1989 at the expiration of a take up such cases for consideration. It is period of six months. learnt that the Screening Committee has not takan up these matters so far. The Governor of Karnataka in his recent letter addressed to the President has stated This is a serious matter as sugar factory that he has considered whether it would be licences are not being given to backward possible and desirable to hold elections to class people. The Government of India should the Legislative Assembly before the expira­ took into the matter. tion of present term of President's rule in the State. The Governor is of the view that in the interest of electing a stable government in the State, the option of dovetailing elections to the Legislative Assembly and the elec­ tions to the Parliament should be kept open 11.20 hr •• to the Election Commission and the Union Government. The Governor has accordingly STATUTORY RESOLUTION RE: CON­ recommended President's rule in Karnataka TINUANCE IN FORCE OF THE PRESI­ for a further period of 4 months beyond 20th DENTIAL PROCLAMATION IN RE­ October, 1989 so that all options are avail­ SPECTOFKARNATAKAFORAFURTHER able in the matter of hok'Jing elections. The PERIOD FOR SIX MONTHS FROM 21ST Governor is of the view that during the ex­ OCTOBER, 1989 tended period. it would be possible to taka an appropriate decision regarding elections to [EngHsh] the Legislat~8 Assembly.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Under the Constitutional provision. the MiNISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC P.... ident·. ,.. can be extended only for a GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN- periad of 8ix months and nat for a ahoIter 17 Stat. Resolution Re. ASV1NA 20,1911 (SAKA) Pr8sJdsnlisl 18 continuance of PlOClamation In Karnataka period as recommended by the Governor. Tamil Nadu Assembly also while holding the However, if the circumstances so warrant elections for the Parliament and the Karna­ the Proclamation can be revoked at any time taka Assembly. Even though in Tamil Nadu dUring the extension of six month period. there is an elected Government. but it is an accidental one. Everybody knows it. Evan Keeping in vIew the situation prevailIng the han. Minister knows It. During the month tn the State and taking all the relevant factors of September last. there was a communal Into consideration It IS proposed that the clash. Even our hon. Minister, Shn Chidam­ PreSident's rule in Karnataka may be contin­ baram, visited the place where the incident ued for a further pertod of six months WIth took place. It was instigated by the DMK effucf from 21.10.1989. Ministers in Tamil Nadu. At no POl'lt of time that can be accepted. The Ministers them­ .1. view of the poSition explained by me, selves instigate the people there to have I solicit the approval of this august House to communal vio!ance. Is it correct on the part the Resolution mentioned by me at the of the elected Government? Such a situation beginning. prevails in Tamil Nadu They have got no locus standI. They want to be In power in MR. SPEAKER: Motion moved: Tamil Nadu. That's why 1 request the hon. Mtnlsterto have elections also 1i1 TamIl Nadu "That thIs House approves the continu­ along With the elections for the Parliament. ance In force of the Proclamation dated the 21 st Aprtl, 1989 In respect of Karna­ The essential commodities are not taka, Issued under article 356 of the available in Tamil Nadu. We are all rice­ ConstItution by the PreSident for a fur­ eaters in Tamil Nadu Without rice, nothing ther penod of six months With effect ca:l be done. The Congress Government from the 21st October, 1989." was changed In 1967 because of rice alone. Supposing there is a problem with regard to SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU (Goblchetti­ nee, automatICally the Government has to palayam). Sir, I welcome the Statutory be dissolved Immediately There are long Resolution brought forward by the Minister queues everywhere before the ration shops of Home AffaIrs here With regard to the In Tamil Nadu. We see hundreds and hun­ extension of the Pre::>ldent Rule In Karna­ dreds of people every day standing In front of taka I come to know the intention of th~ the ration shops In queues. Government IS to have elections both for the Assembly and the Parliament on the same MR SPEAKER: We are only discuss­ day and to make It pOSSible the extensIOn is Ing about Karnataka. being sought by the Mintster. During the last six months law and order IS being main­ SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: Of course, tained well under the President's rule. Be­ I am Interested to bring to the notice of the fore that anarchy was prevailing Earlier lot Government the position In Tamil Nadu also. of confUSIOn was prevailing In the State and the PreSident'S rule has proved to be a boon DR. S. JAGATHRAKSHAKAN (Chen· for the people. Not only law and order but galpattu): It is very nearto Karnataka. (Int9r· also the essential commodities are now easily ruptions) available to people In Karnataka. That IS welcome. But It does not mean that the MR. SPEAKER: You have to be rele­ President's Rule must be extended further. vant. The Government's IntentIOn IS to have the elections both for the Parliament and the SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: The long Assembly. I request the hon. Home Minister queues in front of the ration shops itHH and also the Government of India. especiaJly indicates that the Government is very very the Prime Minister. to have elections for unpopular among the people there. So. an 19 Stat. R.olution Re. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential 20 continuance of Proclamation in Kamataka [Sh. P. Kolandaivelu] So, I urge upon the Minister to hold the elections for the Tamil Nadu Assembly also. unpaputarGovernment cannot rule the State and it has to be dissolved. [ Trans/ation]

Secondly I they are purchasing rice from DR. G.S. RAJHANS(Jhanjharpur): Mr. Andhra Pradesh. Hon. Minister, Shri Sukh Speaker, Sir, I would like to raise two-three Ram, also gave a statement to the Tamil points. There is no doubt about the fact that Nadu people that 40,000 tonnes of rice is ever since the President rule has been im­ being allotted every month. But the Govern­ posed in Karnataka, the situation has im· ment is not utilising these 40,000 tonnes. proved in that State and everybody is seized That is the position hare. They are not taking of the scandals in Karnataka which have it from the Central Pool. But there are pur­ been published in 1he newspapers. It is no chasing rt1rom Shri N.T. Rama Rao. Why are more a secret thing. Be it about Shri Hedge they purchasing it from Shri N.T. Rama Rao? or the Chief Minister after Shn Hegde, or It is because the Chief Minister of Tamil some other people of Janata Dal, it has Nadu is hand in glove with the Chief Minister rndicated their involvement in the land scan­ of Andhra Pradesh. That's why they are dals or the corrupt practices. I am very much purchasing rice at a higher price of As. 4.25 surprised to see that the p90ple, who have per kilogram whereas we are giving it to the been raising their fingers at others are them .. people a1 the rate of Rs. 2.25 per kilograf')1 ;n selves corrupt. You must have heard the the ration shops. Why should they purchase? story of Blue jackal. A man whose own integrity is doubtful has been raising his MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Kolandaivelu, you finger at other in the name of corruption. The know, we have to be relevant to the subject. Government of Karnataka would have fallen if these people had not been busy with each SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: Fordissolu­ other's leg pulling. I happen to meet a large tion of the Tamil Nadu Government, it is number of people. They also talk in the trains relevant. about the people who say that they will put up their single candidate of the opposition MR. SPEAKER: Of course, you can against the Congress candidate. Their party discuss Tamil Nadu but not like thIs. was in power in Karnataka but they them­ selves caused it to be toppled as they were SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU' The Karna~ engaged in leg pulling. Then how IS it that taka Government is doing it. They are utilis­ they think of forming the Government at ing and allotting the rice to the people. But the Centre? Is that any guarantee that they the rice aUoHed by the Central Government will not topple that Government within a is not being utilised by the Tamil Nadu period of seven days through leg pulling? Government They are getting a commission What has happened in Karnataka has opened from Andhra Pradesh. That is the main thing the eyes of all the people In this country. here. That is why 1 urge upon the However, the situation in Karnataka has Minister ... (Int9rruptions) improved after the impos~ion of President's rule in that State. h has been indicated in the SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: When we report of the Governor and Shri Chidamba­ are having the elections for the Karnataka ram has also stated that they will make their Assembfy. why not have them for Tamil efforts to hold elections in Karnataka before Nadu? the expiry of six months· period to bring stability in that State. The Government wants MR. SPEAKER: You can ask it outside. the people to know the truth and realise what is what. We want to bring stability in that SHRI P. KOLANDAIVELU: The time is State. How could a Government be allowed , ripe enough to have elections in Tamil Nadu. to continue whose cheques even for a very 21 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Presidential 22 continuance of Proclamation in Karnataka small amount say As. 5-7 were dishonoured? able to pay the salary of Government em­ There was nothing left in their treasury as ployees. Many other Bills worth several crores they had emptied it. Hence there was no were pending. Fortunately now, underPrasi­ question of their continuance in power. dent's rule the situation has been brought Therefore, I would like to say it with a stress under control. Bills have been cleared and that President's rule should continue in the many developmental works h ave been taken State of Karnataka, unless and until there is up. stabiiity in that State. The State IS getting about 40 crores of SHRI RAM BHAGAT PASWAN (Ros­ rupees through excise department and 90 era): Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the impos~ion crores of rupees th,ough Sales Tax Depart­ of President's rule in Karnataka, the people ment. This revenue was being swallowed by of that state have been living in peace. the Janata Government during their rule. Before the President's rule, the Government Corruption was rampant and maladministra­ of Janata Party was in power in that State tion has crippled the development of the and earlier history testifies that whenever Stat9. Of course, this fear is no more there in there have been atrocities on the poor people the minds of the people since the promulga­ and Harijans, there were initiated under their tion of President's rule. The atrocities on regime. The situation in Karnataka State is harijans, girijans and other minorities also also taking that very shape as it was in the has come to a halt during Presidenf rule. In State of Bihar during the two and a half year's the last six months various developmental span of Janata Government. They are en­ works have been taken up and the law and gaged in each-other's leg pulling and they order situation is quite satisfactory. are conspiring against the Congress. They have started striking a severe blow on our The farmers of the State are very busy unity and integrity and Janata party is fully in their work. There has been good rdin In responsible for the communal riots in that most parts of the State. Hence some more State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the people in that time has to be given to them before holding State are peace-loving, hence PreSident rule elections. should be continued in that State and it should be further extended. I, therefore, welcome the extension of President's rule in Karnataka for another six With these words, I would like to say that months. The state is very rich in its natural things are going smooth in that State under resources and the farmers throughout the the President rule. Hence it should be ex­ State are very busy at present. I urg9 upon tended further. the Centre to help the farmers of my State in providing electriCity and other Irrigation fa­ ·SHRI G.S BASAVARAJU (Tumkur): cilities. I support the resolution for extending Mr. Speaker, Sir, 1rise to support the resolu­ the President's rule in the State. tion moved by the Hon'ble Home Minister to extend the President's rule in Karnataka. Sir, I thank you for giving me this oppor­ tunity to speak and with these words I con­ The life of people in Karnataka had clude my speech. become miserable during the regime of Janata Government. Four crores of peopfe [English] of Karnataka felt supremely happly when President's rule was promulgated in the SHRI SyeO SHAHABUDDtN (Kishan­ month of April, 1989. The Janata Govern· ganj): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to oppose the ment looted the people and the State had Motion. Sir. I do not find any poJitical ration­ become bankrupt. The Govemment was not ale or any economic logic in extending the

• Translation of the Speech Originally delivered in Kannada 23 Stat. RaoJution R9. OCTOBER 12. 1989 Presidential 24 continuanos 01 Proclamation in Kamataka ISh. Syed Shahabuddin] SHRI ASUTOSH LAW (Dum Dum): Mr. Prelktent's Raj for anotht;r spen of six months. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Resolution. It is Ilke keeping a patient under intensive I think this Resolution-extension of Pres;­ care therapy long after the crisis situation is dent's Rule for Six months from 21 SI Odo­ pasaed away. As far as , can see. the social bert 1989-will bring blessing to about 4 erors situation in Karnataka is by and large peace­ people of Karnataka. The time has not yet ful. There have been some minor it1Cidents. ripe to hold e~ions in Karnataka. The lut But certainly that does not create a situation State Government had created such a chaos in which electk)ns cannot be held. There has in the f:ICOnomic front as also on the social been no major law and order problem. But front of Karnataka that it requires further six the raal issue is the question of denial of months' time to recover from that chaos. If democracy to the people. There is no reason more time is given, the stabilisation will take at all why the people of Karnataka should not place and then there wHl be proper atmos­ enjoy their right of self-government, of elect­ phere in Karnataka to hold elections or to ing their own government. Some friends recover democracy, as Mr. Shahabuddin have raised the irrelevant question today of has said. Idon't agree with Mr. Shahabuddin the performance of the former Government. on this point that the time has already come That is not the question before us. The there to hold elections. They have also question is not the performance of the Hegde caused damage on the economic front also. Government: the question today is the per­ In view of this, at least for six months i.e. from formance or the likely benefh from the Gov­ 21 st October, 1989, the elections cannot be ernor's rule in Karnataka. held or that the democracy can not be recov· ered in Karnataka. Moreover, it has to be On the economic front as far as I can reminded that the last Government headed understand, the progress has been very by Mr. Hegde of the Janata Party had totally timid and very slow. There IS almost a situ­ failed to bring any notable changes in the ation of stagnation onthe development front. State of Karnataka. Because Of the imple­ The Government IS really !uilctioning as a mentation of the polices and programmes caretaker regime. It is holding the fort; that like Jawahar Rozgar Yojana. Nehru Rozgar cannot possibly take Karnataka forward as Vo;ana and others in the last six months had Karnataka deserves to go forward. The given them more benefits and particularly Government by and large is functiof'ling But the farmers and middle class people are it is not taking any initiatives because it is not happy with the Governor's rule. So, another sure about the political s~uation tomorrow. six month's Governor's rule from 21 st Octo­ From all these points of view, it is essential ber, 1989 will give more comfort to the people that democracy must be restored in Karna­ and they will be in a position to bring the real taka at the earhest possible. HI may make a atmosphere to fight elections. very simple comment, perhaps the people know the real reasons why the President's Therefore, I do support the Resolution rute is being extended. I do not wish to POint for extension of Governor's rule for another a fingor at any particular Party but the fact is six months from 21 st of October, 1989. and that is a matter of pubhc record that the Congress .. 1Party is a divided House in Kar­ [ Translation] ilataka and they are not in a poSition to face the election. I therefore oppose this exten­ KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE sIOn of President's rule. (Jadavpur): Mr. Speaker, Sir, t rise to sup­ port the statutory Resotution moved by S. t appeal to the House that they shouJd Buta Singh for extension of President's Rule reject the Motion so that the Assembly elec­ ;n Karnataka. However, the situation in Kar­ tions can be held as soon as possible within nataka is not conducive forthe restoration of the stipulated time and the people of Karna· democratic process in that State. No-body. taka can resume their hold ova, thair destiny. who believes in democracy, wants the Presi- 25 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVINA20, 1911 (SAKA) PresidBntial 26 continuance of Proclamation in Kamataka dent'. rule to continue in Karnataka, but the should betaken againsttham and they should situation shbuld be stable there, so that be punished that no-body else can dare Government may fundion quite efficiently. waste the public money. Saved situation is prevailing in the State of Haryana. In the Just now, Shri Sha~abuddin has stated State of Assam also, there is one A.G.P. that Government does not want to hold elee· party Le. Aya ram gaya ram party. We may tions in that State. 't is not correct, because call it.. .. • ... same situation is prevailing in ~ is not the congress that has imposed that State also. President's rule on the people of that state but it is the people of Janata party whose SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Please infighting itself caused the downfall of their speak something about West Bengal too. Government in that State. During their rea gime, corruption was so rampant in the State KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Iknow, that Developmental activities had come to a about which of the states I have to speak. standstill and today these very people are Shahabuddinji, Have you any friendship with levelling charges of corruption against Shri Shri Devi Lal? When we speak here in the Rajiv Gandhi. These peopie have them­ House, Shri Devi lal says that he will contest selves tar"ished their image and for that, against the Speaker. Is he your enemy? We they are blaming the Congress. I would like will oppose everyone who does a wrong to request Shri Shahabuddin only because thing. He has celebrated his birthday, how other members have already resigned, to much money he has wasted on it? Astrolo­ have somQ sort of introspection and then gers were called thera. Crores of rupees guide others. It is not the Janata party or the have been spent on it and "lOW he says that B.J.P. but only Congress party that has he is the son of a farmer. But it is the protected the democratic system in India. congress party that has raised the voice of After independence, Mahatm~Gandhi made the masses of India because the voice of the the sacrifice of his life and Smt. Indira Gandhi Congress party is the voice of the masses of also gave her lift for the cause of the nation India. Only the Congress party can admini­ but what sacrifice has been made or is being ster things in India and work for the develop· made by your party for this oountry. Central ment of the country, Government has been taking care of the State of Karnataka and now developmental SHRI SYEO SHAHABUDOIN: And activities have been gaining momentum. The wherever congress party is defeated, it masses in that state are now happy. More imposes President's rule. developmental schemes should be takan up there. All the developmental programmes, KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: It is be it the N.R.E.P., R.l.E.G.P., R.E.D.P.or we, the elected representatives of the people Jawahar Rozgar Yojana for rural develop­ who have elected Shri Rajiv Gandhi as our ment, will immensely benefit the people of leader. Karnataka because Central Government is supervising the work of all these schemes. [English] All the development projects of Karnataka which are pending, should be cleared imme­ Rajiv Gandhi has been elected by the diately and should be completed. The Gov· people's representatives. ernmant should not allow the people of Janata Oal go scot free bocause they have been [ Translation] I engaged in corrupt practices. An enquiry has been instituted against the former Chluf It is not your party or the B.J. P. who has Minister, and in case the Chktf Minister or elected Shri Rajiv Gandhi as a feader. H he

any other people are found guilty I action is to step down, he will do so in deference to

•• Expunged as ordered by the Chair. 27 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12. 1989 Presidential 28 continuance of Proclamation in Karnataka [t(uman Mamata Banertee} ment IS the fact that the Congress Govern­ ment has laid the democratic traditions so the people's maGdate. Under tt-e present deep and strong that now nobody can root ~ sttuatlon, Karnataka needs a lot of develop­ out of this SOIL Dedication and firm belief of ment for gaining stabllrty Therefore, I sup­ the Congress In democracy is now a proven port thiS resolution and would like to con­ fact and it IS stili gaining ground. But in the gratulate the people of Karnataka that now last electIons. the people 01 Karnataka had they have realised the reality 01 these people. given power In the hands of Janata Party The vOice 01 the masses of Karnataka IS the with high hopes. Their sweet words had votes calling for the development of India. raised high hopes In the people that they Therefore, I congratulate the masses of would give an effiCient administration. be­ Karnataka cause earlier when they were In the OPPOSI­ tIon, they had expressea their concern for MR. SPEAKE:R Shahabuddtn Sahib, the moral values. But people In Karnataka do you agree were completely disapPointed at their nega· tlve attitude and shocked to see their mode [Engltsh] offunctloOing Persons i1ke Shn Ram Krtshna Hegde and hIs partymen violated all the SHRI SYED SHAYABUDDIN She has norms of conduct to set up new records of not asked for President s rule In West Ben· corruption In 5uch a short duratIon DUring gal That IS a very sertOUS omlC;Slorl Her his very short tenure, corruption reached party should take note of It new heights, which I think. was unprece· dented during the regime of any other Gov~ [ Translatlonj ernment and rather It must be the only ex­ ample of record c,orruptlon In the whole world. SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mandsaur) I Those very people who used to raIse tl-)elr would like to ask Shrt ShahabuddlO that vOice against corruption when they Cdme to atleast now, he should come to SQnses. power, adopted the way& of corruption for Even the girls have started snubbing him their selfish motives and disappointed the people of Karnataka by their performance. SHRI SHAHABUDDIN I have never People have heaved a Sigh of relief now With been popular among girls the Imposition of President's rule In that State and now they have realised It that the SHRI YOGESHWAR PRASAD YO- schemes of the previous Government were GESH (Chatra) Mr Speaker, SIr, I rise to nothing but the ways of corrupt practices and support the Motion moved In the House for they were r'lot at allmterested In the public the extension of PresIdent s Rule In Karna­ welfare As a mattor of fact, Karnataka has taka. Karnataka has always set examples of always been under the Influence of Con­ rtch traditions 11 IS the land of Tlpu Sultan gress culture and It was the first mistake the and a Centre of high culture The people of people of that region had committed and that region are virtuous 10 the real sense and now gradually they are developing Interest in sincere at heart who want that there should the congress poliCIes, not because that be effiCient administration In thelrstate. There Congress IS ruling at the Centre but because IS no doubt that the whole country wants that Congress has been the real guardian of the administration should be effiCient and democracy and It IS only the Congress democratic tradlttons should be strength­ Government which can give them an effl ened in the entIre country. For, a number of Clent administration. A number of reforms things were mentIOned tn your presence In a have been brought In after the imposition of recent Intersetlonal forum. Recently Mrs. President's Rule in that state. It has further Margaret Thatcher has also remarked about strengthened democracy in Karnataka and Indla: "Democracy In IndIa IsgOlng stronger,­ the people in that region feel that develop-­ The main factor responSIble for thiS achieve ment is really taking place. Therefore I am of 29 Stat. R9Solution Rf1. ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Presidential 30 continuance of Proclamation in Kamataka the opinion that neither economically nor people of Karnataka are looking forward for mentally, the situation in Karnataka is fa­ completion of these projects. The Centre vourable to hold elections in tha1 state. At has to fulfill these demands of the people of this moment, it would not be proper and the Elections should be held a.s soon as the congenital atmosphere for it. Hence the situation in the State improves. resolution moved in the House f0r the exten­ sion of President's Rule for another six f support the extension of PresIdent's months, is in the public mterest of that State. rule in Karnataka and with these words I TherQfore I support it. conclude my speech.

·SHRI T.V. CHANDRASHEKARAPPA [En,glish] (Shimoga): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the resolution moved by the Hon'ble Home SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Mr. Speaker, Minister in this august House and $ay a few Sir, t am grateftl! to the hon. Mambers for words on two important issues. particularly welcoming the Resolution to extend Pr0sident's RUle in Karnataka. The Janata Government followed its own peculiar way of functioning and ulti­ As I said in my open:ng statement, it is mately they lost the power due to infighting. not the intention of th~ Government to con­ Corruption and maladministration in the tinue President's R~le for a period of six whole state had reached peak and there was months. The ConstitutIonal provision requires no other alternative but to promulgate Presi­ that we extend President's Rule for six dent's rule. months. But we hope that once we take a decision on Parliament elections, it will be The Presldent'$ rule wa~; promulgated possible to take the suitable decIsion on on 21 st April, 1989 and circumstances were elections to Assembly also. The Governor is not conducive to hold elections beoause the also of the view that the option of dovetailing monsoon had set in. In this regard the farm­ elections to the Assembly and elections to er5 and other sections of people requested Parliament should be kept open and the only the Centre not to hold the elections immedi­ manner in which this can be kept open is to ately. extend President's Rule for six months a.nd keep the option open of holdif'lg Qlectjons The financial condition of the state was early. , think, that is rather apparent in the critical during the Janata rule. The .revenue letterof1he Governor; it is also obvious in the 1rom sales tax and excise alone would fetch statement I made and ther9fore, Shri Sha­ more than 22 crores of rupees in a month but habuddin need not take cudgels on behalf of unfortunately the Janata Government mis­ democracy; we are as committed to democ­ managed the whole affair and there was no racy as he is. money left in the treasury. All the develop­ ment works in the State came to a stand still. Sir, I wish to make a few brief points on Hence, promulgation of President's rule was what President's Rule has done in Karna~ unavoidable. Our party is always prepared taka. Firstly, the law and order situation to hold elections but we have to take into which was extremely fragile with a great accountthe prevailing conditions, in the State. sense of InseCUrity among the minorjty communities as well as the Scheduled Castes l There are various projects in the state has considerably improved in Karnataka, which need the urgent attention of the centre. thanks to very firm action takan by the Gov­ Mangalore refinery is one such projeot which ernor. his advisers and his administration. should start functioning immediately. There are many other projects pending and the Sir, I was in Bangalore only a few days

• Translation of the Speech originally delivered in Kannada. 31 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential 32 continuanc9 of Proclamation in Kamataka (Sh. P. Chidambaram] Land Acquisition Act, a price for fixing the compensation. It was not a value-based ago and I found that all sections of the people Government. All over Karnataka, the previ­ were extremely happy about the law and ous Government is described as a price tag order situation. Secondly the financial posi­ Government. There were price tags for tion. Cn the day the President's Rule was everything. That is the kind of corruption, imposed, the Chief Secretary of Karnataka that is the kind of scandals which are being told me that unpaid bills were to the extend unearthed in Karnataka. But this again is not of Rs. 130 crores. They did not have money the time to go into great details. even to pay for the petrol bill of the Chief Secretary every day. That was the parlous SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: I am situation of Karnataka. Today the financial qu"e familiar with the pidure. The same position has stabilised, bills are being paid, price-tag Government runs Bihar. salaries are being paid efforts are being made to recover taxes without of course SHAI P. CHIDAMBARAM: The potnt is putling undue pressure on agricu~urists or that the Governor has brought certain amount ryots. of stability and certain amount of ethics into the Government. Tbday the Government is Sir, the liquor lobby which had a stran­ fulfi"ing the promises made, fulfilling the glehold on Government has been put in its programmes which have been introduced)n place. The Governor has taken very strong Karnataka particularly IRDP and Jawahar step, which has been Widely welcomed In Rozgar Yojana. These programmes have Karnataka. been translated into action. if there are any shortcomings, we will look into those short­ Sir, the President's Rule has also brought comings. But I must also caution that the Zila to surface a large number of irregularities Pa(lshads continue to be in the hands of the which were committed by the prevIous Janata Dal Party and the party which was in Government. I agree with Shrt Shahabuddtn power. We have not disturbed those institu­ that this IS not the occasion to pass judge­ tions. These are some difficu~ies. But the ment on the precIous Government. The Governor and his Advisers are lookiA9 into people of Karnataka will pass Judgement at these difficu~ies to set things right. the appropriate time. But It cannot be torgot­ ten that there perhaps had never been a I seek the support of this hon. House to perIod In the history of Karnataka, where the Resolution which J have moved earlier public property, public wealth, particularly that the President Rule be extended so that land, was bartered away to unscrupulous at an appropriate time elections can be held speculators and dealers for a price. There to the Assembly in Karnataka. had never been a penod before as the period of the prevIous Government headed by Mr. MR. SPEAKER: The question ;s: Ramakrishna Hegde and Mr. Bomma!. "That this House approves the continu­ 12.00 hrs. ance in force of the Proclamation dated the 21 st April, 1989 in respect of Karna­ Revajeetu and NRI are the only deals taka, issued under article 356 of the which have come to surface. There are many Constitution by the President for a fur­ other serious irregulantles. I do not know ther period of six months with effect t whether Mr. Shahabuddln had read GVK from the 21 st October, 1989." Rao Committee Report which unearthed massive scandals in the Cooperative De­ The Motion was adopted partment. They had fixed a pnce for a nottfl­ cation under the Land Acquisition Ad, a price for a declaration under sectIOn 6 of the 33 Stat. by the PM ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Stat. by rIHI PM 34

12.03 hr•. course after Indiraji and the Congress came back to the Treasury benches. STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER Now. our kisans and khBt mazdoofS RE: AGRICULTURAL PACKAGE have rendered us self-sufficient infoed. They have given us this year the highest-evef [English] output of foodgrains and most other agricul­ tural products. They have given us the inner THE PRIME MINISTER (SHRt RAJIV strength to withstand the rigours of drought GANDHt): Mr. Speaker, Sir, 37 years ago, and the ravages of floods. They have given speaking in this House, Pandit Jawaharlal us honour and self-respect. They have rein­ Nehru said: forced our independence. They have proved the first line of our defence. It is on the basis "We certainly attach importance to in­ of se~-reliance in agriculture that we have dustry; but in the present context we been able to build a self-reliant economy, a attach far greater importance to agricul­ deeply democratic domestic polity, and an ture and food and matters pertaining to independent foreign policy. Had we at any agricuhure. If our agricultural founda­ time cracked up on the food front, as Panditjl tion IS not strong then the industry we put it, the whole country and everything we seek to build will not have a strong base stand for would have cracked up too. It is e~her. Apart from that, the situation in because of our buoyant agricu~ure that this the country today is suchthat, itourfood has not happened. That is the depth of the front cracks up, everything else will crack debt of gratitude that the country owes the up too. Therefore, we dare not weaken kisan and the khet mazdoor. our food front. If our agriculture be­ comes strongly entrenched, as we hope During the tast nine years, GOP and per it will, then it will be relatively easy for us capita income have risen faster than ever to progress more rapidly on the indus­ before. This has led to an upsurge in de­ trial front, whereas if we concentrate mand forfood and other wage goods, includ­ only on industrial development and leave ing several agricultural produds. This is agriculture in a weak condition we shall wholly welcome development. It means a ultimately be weakening industry. That significant improvement in nutritienallevels is why) primary attention has been given and liVIng standard. We must get up produc* to agriculture and food and that, I think, tion to meet this explOSion In demand. There­ is essential in a country like India a~ tne fore, we are determined to accord the high­ present moment." est priority to agriculture in the Eighth Five Year Plan. Agricultural growth must be ac­ 37 years later, the time has come for us celerated. AgricuHural inrome and employ­ to reiterate that the highest national Priority ment must grow f3ster than they have in the must be given to the farmer, to f,arminn, to past. Our klsans are <...oncernttd at the proc­ food and agriculture as the corner-stone of ess of determining support prices for farm our economy. Much has happened in these product. We shall ensure that two major 37 years. No longer are we threatened With modifications are introduced in the method 'amine. No longer is the begging bowl wait­ of computing the cost of production while ing to be taken out of the cupboard. The fixing support prices for agricultural produce. agricultural poliCIes followed by successive First. we shall determtne the wag& costs on governments over four decades of freedom the basis of tne statutory minimum wage for have set the stage for the epochal transfor­ agricuhuraf labour notified by t~e State orthe matienthat has taken place in Indian agricul­ actual wages paid, whtchever IS higher. ture. True, there was a severe setback dur­ Second, we shall inctude k. the cost of pro­ ing the three-year tragedy of Janata rule, but duction the labour input of the Kisan at 8 the agricultural economy was set back on higher wage raflecting the managerial and 35 Stat. by the PM OCTOBER 12. 1989 Stat. by the PM 36 [Sh. Rajiv Gandhi) village. The rural roads network will also be strengthened in a phased manner. Kisans, entrepreneurial (ole of the kisan. In order to particularly those engaged in the farming of enable kisans to rationally determine their perishable farm commodities. are often cropping pattern, support prices are being denied a fair share of the value of their notified by Government in advance of the produce because of the very perishability of sowing. However, this system leaves out of their output. The only answer lies in expand­ . account the increases in costs taking place ing rural godowns and cold or cooled·stor­ between the point of announcement and the age facilities. To this end, a special pro­ point of harvestir,g. To remedy this, we are gramma is being instituted for the extension instructing the CACP to work out a suitable of institutional credit on attractive terms for escalation formula. Meanwhile, for. kharif the establishmem of cold or cooled-storage 1989. support prices will be increased at the facilities in rural areas. beginning of tho marketing season to take into account increases In the prices of inputs There is scope for substantially improv· and the general pnce rise since the com­ ing credit facilities forthe farm community .We mencement of the sowing season. propose fou!' specific steps in this regard: First, we must rectify the problem of credit The procurement prloes per Quintal: of not being available to members of coopera­ paddy will go up from Rs. 175 to Rs. 185; of tives because of the cooperatives to which coarse cereals like jowar, baJra, maize and they belong having become ineligible for ragi from As. 155 to As. 165; of kharif pulses NABARD refinance. We have decided to like tur, moong and urad from As. 400 to As. open, with effect from the ensuing rabi sea~ 425; of groundnut-ln ·shell from Rs. 470 to son. a special line of credit of As. 100 crores Rs. 500; of black soyabean from Rs. 305 to through cooperative and commercial banks As. 325 and of yel!ow soyabean from Rs. which will be earmarked exclusively for 350 to Rs. 370; of s~nflower seeds from Rs. Sch~duled Caste and Scheduled Tribe farm­ 5GO to Rs. 530; of F -414 Clnd H-777 cotton ers. Second, scales of finance for short-term from Rs, 540 to Rs. 570, and of H~4 cetton production credit will be revised annually so from Rs. 650 to Rs. 690; and finally, of jute that the credit made available to the farmer (M-5 Assam variety) from Rs. 280 to Rs. 295. fully meets the recommended does of inputs These rates will also apply to those farmers at current prices to meet his cultivation re­ who have already said their produce in the quirements. current kharif marketing season. Third, a special credit regime is being The farming community has also been ir.stltuted for kisans in rainted farming areas concerned at the terms of irade for the farm covered by watershed development pro­ sector in relation to other sectors. The ad· grammes. The new regime will operate on vSrse movement of the terms of trade has the basis of ensuring the availability of credit been rectified to som~ extent in the Sixth and through a three to five year cycle so as to Seventh Plans. In the Eighth Five Year Plan, even out the inherent risks involved in good we shall ensure favourable terms of trade for arid bad monsoon years appearing in a cycle the farming sector. in such areas. The special credit regime will take into accou nt problem s of ove rdues which Many farmers are not able to obtain the arise within a cyclical period to ensure an advantage of minimum support pnces be­ adequate flow of credit in support of viable cause procurement centres~re sometimes crop production and other allied activities. at a considerable distance tram their farms This regime will be reinforced by a major and villages. We intend to increase the programme of watershed development in number of procurement centres so that, rainfed farming areas. eventually, every kisan wtll have access to a procurement centre within 10 h.ms of his The fourth step we propose is essen- 37 Stat. by the PM ASVtNA 20,1911 (SAKA) Stat. by the PM 38 tialty a procedural one but which kisans will increasing agricultural productivity. The uses immediately recognise as being of the ut .. of plastic are many. especially in irrigation, most importance to their requirements. Pass­ storage and packaging. Existing plasticul­ books and agriculture credit cards will be tura schemas will be substantially expanded. extended to kisans so as t6 enable the easy It is proposed to extent incentives for the drawal of production loans from cooperative installation of sprinkler or drip irrigation sys­ and commercial banks. tems to all farmers. During the Eighth Five Year Plan, one lakh additional sprinkler The National Agricultura\ Credit Relief systems and one lakh drip irngation systems Fund will devise a comprehensive relief policy will be installed to optimise the use of scarce based on the special characteristics of pro­ water resources. duction and the severity of damage in differ­ ent agro-climatic zones. Through the re­ Good seeds are the basic foundation of scheduling of loans and waivers of interest higher agricultural productivity. The New and principal In defined circumstances, the Seed Policy IS under implementation and the credit needs of farmers in different zones will buffer stocks being built will ensure that be kept in vIew. While we have invested kisans have access to high quality seeds astronomical sums of money in land im­ and planting rnaterial at re&30nable prices. provement and Irrigation, our management We are particularly concerned about small, of land and water resources has bee-n so marginal and SC/ST .farmers. With effect poor as to render the benefits secured far from Rabi 1989-90, minikits for the supply of below the optimum achievable. We propose Improved seeds will be ensured, under the to take a number of steps Improve the eXIsting Centrally·sponsored schemes, to management of our land and water re­ 20 lakh such farmers. sources. Agricultural research is Simply not gAt ting the attention or Priority it needs V\(p ar~ DUring the next five years, irrigation reconstItuting the Indian Council for AGricul­ waters will be made availanle on an assured tural Research and I shall take over as its basis to an additIonal one crare hectares of PreSident. We have tw.J maJor'obJectives In land in the command areas of canal projects. mind F;rst, we propose to generate appro­ The authorities concerned will be held re­ prtate technologies tor each sub·zone of the sponsible for reaching water to farmers in 15 agrochmatlc zones so as to be able to assured quantities and at the right time. modernIse our agriculture ;n e(1ch of the Also, ten lakh tubewells and dugwells are to zones. Second, a special time-bound pro­ be constructed every year And five lakh gramme in research and development of hectares will be covered annually for the hybrids is beIng taken up 10 cover rice, programme of dGsaltlng and maintenance of maize, ;owar, baJra, arhar, cotton and Village tanks, beels. bunds and ponds. Sec­ oilseeds. Results WIll be demanded within ond. the productivity o! unirrigated land is to five years and the implementation of the be enhanced through effectIve watershed research programme will be monitored at development and in situ moisture conserva­ the highest level. To promote the manufac­ tion. This programme will extend to 50 lakh ture of agricuhural machinery and imple­ hectares during the next five years. ments of improved deSign, particularly those using new and more efficient materials, a Third. 25 lakh hectares of usar and special Fund is being established to extend barani land will be reclaimed at the rate of credrt for the manufacture, fabrication and five lakh hectares a year. We need not wait marketing of such maChinery and imple­ for the commencement of the Eighth Plan to ments, as also for the leasing or custom take up these projects. A beginning should hiring of such machinery and implements, be made this year itself. plant protection 9quipment and sprinklors.

Plasticulture holds vast potential for For adding value to primary produce, as 39 Stat. by 'M PM OCTOSER 12, 1989 Stat. Resolution RIIt 40 continuance of Presidential Proclamation In Punjab (Sh. Rajiv GandhiJ for the cooperative movement in our strst .. egy of socia .. economic transformation. This also expanding emplovment opportunities in ;s a priority task for our next term '" office. rural areas. it is necessary to encourage The interests of agricul:ure are the interests agro .. based industries, particularly food proc· ofthe nation. There is no dichotomy between essing. A special oxtension and infrastruc­ agricultural development and national de­ ture package is being put in place for the velopment. The former is the foundation of development and processing of fruits and the latter. We are confident that the agricul­ vegetables in su~ab'e areas. Also. incen­ tural package. , am now placing before the tives are being given to industrial units to House. will herald a bright new era for our enter Into contracts with small producers Kisans and Khat Mazdoors and for the whole Individually or through cooperatives. For the farming community. diversification of rural economic activity, Fish Farmers' Development Agencies are being Thank you, Sir. established In all coastal districts to encour­ age PIsciculture and aquaculture. S~ecjal [ Translation] attentlon will be glv~n to poultry develop­ ment and sheep farming including reduced SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mandsaur): costs of poultry-feed, market support for the Mr. SpeaKer, Sir, If you allow me I would like stabilisation of egg prices, Incentives to es­ to recite 2-3 lines about thiS good policy on tablish processmg complexes In rural areas behalf of the farmers of thiS country. On their linked to small poultry farm~, and SL.pport to behalf, I wou Id congratulate Shri Rajiv Gandhi the export of processed ploducts particularly for accomplishing all these things when a great farmer is occupying the chair. Agriculture has the potential 01 becom­ I would like to read out some lines on behalf Ing a major export sector. Our Kisans will of the people of this country. on behalf afthe benefltfrom linking agricultural produc.tlon to farmers of this country. I myself being a lucrative export rnarket~ In order tu rec:lllse farmer SubmIt: "Jisne yeh Peeda Pehchani, this potential, we propose to extend Incen­ Bharat ke kotl kisanon ~.9, Mook wyatha tives to expand the p~oduction base of ex­ samajhl jisne, kheton kl, Khalihanon ke, Hum portable commodities as also the range of Nehru ke us nati ko, kheton ka saathl kahclte non-traditional agricultural exports hain, Yeh saath krore kisan use, apni ashee· shen dete hain." In this connectIon, and In VI~W of the expected bumper crop of cotton, I am happy to announce that we have decided to permit the export of one lakh bales of Bengal Deshi 12. 24 hrs. cotton and two lakh bales of extra·long staple cotton. A~ regards the import policy for agri­ STATUTORY RESOLUTION RECONTINU­ cuftural commodities, these will be so regu­ ANCE IN FORCE OF THE PRESIDENTIAL lated as to ensure that Qur farmers are as­ PROCLAMATION IN RESPECT OF sured remunerative prices for their produce. llUNJAB FOR A FURTHER PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS FROM 11TH NOVEMBER Major ins11tutlonal reforms are reqUired 1989 to support thiS package. We have two impor­ tant programmes In hand In this regard. First, [Eng/ish] we are initiating a programme to update and computer;se Jand records so that farmers MR. SPEAKER: Shri P. Chidambaram. can obtain documentation on demand. Sec-ond. we propose to reform, revamp and THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE rejuvenate the ,:ooperatlve movement whIch. MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL~ PUBLIC in many parts the country and in ma"y ways, GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN­ has fatted to play the central role envisaged ISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRV OF 41 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVlNA 20,1911 (SAKA) Presidential 42 continuance of Proclamation in Punjab HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHtOAMBA· preva' of both House of Parliament for con­ RAM): I beg to mov,.. tinuance of Proclamation for a period of six months on each occasion. IIThat this House approves the con· tinuance In force of the proclamation After enactment of the Constitution (Fifty­ dated the 11 th May, 1987 in respect of ninth Amendment) Act, 1988, President's Punjab, issued under article 356 of the Rule in Punjab has been extended with Constitution by the President for a effedfrom 11-5-1988,11-11-1988andagain further period of six months with effect with effect from 11-5-1989. The present term from the 11th November, 1989." of President's Rule in Punjab is due to expire on 10th November, 1989. 12.24 112 hrs. The Governor of Punjab In hIS recent [MR. DEPUTY -SPEAKER-m the Cha/~ report to the PreSIdent of India has stated that the fight against terrorists has reached a As the House IS aware, in Vi9W of the critical stage. With fresh spurts of anti-na­ then prevailing situation In Punjab, Procla­ tional terrorists trying to rome from across matlon under article 356 of the Constitution the border with newly supplied arms and in relation to the State of Punjab was issued ammunitions, there eXists an Imperative need on May 11, 1987 on the recommendation of to firmly and effectively deal with them as the Governor. Approval of the Lok Sabha as well as the terronsts who are already In well as the Rajya Sabha for the issue of the Punjab. Accordingly, he has stated that it is Proclamation under article 356 was obtained necessary that the President's Rule in Punjab on 12.5.1987. The Legislative Assembly of be extended for a further period of SIX months the State, which was Initially kept under wIth effect from 11th November, 1989. suspended animation, was dissolved on 6th March, 19S8 on the recommendatIon of the The Governor has further mentioned Governor that it is not possible to have any Assembly Elections as there is near total uncertainty in As the law and order situation In the the political arena In Punjab, With Akal.s St~ta continued to be dIsturbed, approval of being divided and sub-diVided in several both the Houses of Parliament was obtained groups and sub-groups. As a result. a politi­ for continuance of PreSident's Rule for a cally unstable situation has arisen and the further penod of six months with effect from Governor is very doubtful whether any oohe­ 11-11-1987 sive or stable State Government could be formed. In the Governor's view. a much Under the eXisting provision of Article more stable political Situation will emerge in 356(5) of the ConstItution, PreSIdent's Rule Punjab after the coming of Lok Sabha Elec­ could not be extended beyond a period of tions. Accordingly. he has recommended one year unless the two conditions men· that Assembly Elections should be held only tloned In that clause are met. As both these after the Lok Sabha Elections, whenever conditIOns were not fulfilled, Article 356(5) of they are held. the Constitution was amended by the Con­ strtutlon (FiftY-ninth Amendment) Act, 1988 In the circumstances, the Governor has so as to make clause (5) of that article in a recommended that the Proclamation dated Inapphcable to the Proclamation issued on 11 th May, 1987 under Article 356 of the 11 th May, 1987 with resped to the State of Constitution may be extended for a further Punjab. With this amendment President's period of six months with effect from 11 th RuJe can be extended, if neoessary, for a November, 1989,. total period of three y.ars in Punjab without fulfi1ment 01 the cond itions mentioned in Keeping in view the situation prevailing ctause (5) of Artie'e 356 subject to the ap- in the State and taking aU the relevant factors 43 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential continuance of Proclamation in Punjab ISh. P Chrdambaram} more terrorism. I would like to request that the Government should look into this·logicof mto consld&ratlon, It I~ proposed that the the slt~ation. What 15 happening In Punjab PreSident's Rule In PunJO,b ma,! be contl1'l­ which is supporting this process of genera .. ued for a further penod of SIX months wrth tlon of terrorists? Something has to be done effect from 11 -11-1989 We do get a gllmp~e now and then when the nports of massive violation of human Tights In VI(~W of thE:! poSitIon 8xplntned by m~; C 1Me to the surtace I do not know t10W far I sohclt the approval of thiS august House to we hc'we to go by them because they may be the Resolution m6ritloned be me at the exaggerated But the fact is that the human beginning rr~~hts situation In Punjab needs to be looked lnt':> very closely because otherwIse an MR DEPUTY SPEAKER· Motlc') opelatlon which IS solely based on force. not moved 0"1 reconciliation, can never succeed

"That thIS HOUSd approves the con­ Sir, there ar~ three elements I would like tinuance In fOlC8 at the prociamatlC'n to pornt out to the hon MInister whIch show dated tpe 11 til May 1987 In respect ot a glimmer of light In thiS encircling gloom. On PunJ<.~b, hSued under article 356 of the the polit,cal plane no Sikh leader of any ('onc;tltutlon by the PreSident for a errlnence has supported the concept of furthal ptHlod of SIX months With effect Khallstan On the SOCial plane, despite every from the 11 th November, 1989 " effort by the anti-social and anti-national forces, there has been no communal conflict SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Klshan­ at all In Punjab On the economic plane, I ganl) Mr Deputy Speaker, I heard the hon would like to say It to the glory of the average Minister With much attention to understand Punjab! that despite all the terror, all the what the Governmt3nt hopes to achieve In Violence and all the blood-shed, the eco­ the next SIX month what they have not been nomic productiVity of Punjab has remained able to achieve In the last SIX months or the unabated. These are the three baSIC facts­ last 2 1/2 years The Governor has said that a political fact, a SOCial fact and an economic wa are at a cl111cal stage In the antI-terrOrist fact-whIch prOVide the baSIS for the Govern­ operation Behind thiS seems to be the as­ ment to deliberately choose a course which ~,umptlcn that ter r,)rlsm can be fought and shall bring peace to Punjab and not to crush elllninated by police methods I think It IS high the people of Punjab under the heels of a time that the Government realise that there police Administration Let us conSider the can be no solution to the Punjab problem by Situation afresh Let us do something torce, that only;) political solution can deliver the goods Today we are In a Situation of We had a long debate In thiS House on despaIr Every day we open the newspapers the Sarkana Commission Report That was and dedth stares us In thfl face The human Important for the Punjab context also be­ toll goes up every day I think on a daily cause we felt that when there are delibera­ baSIS. -I do not have the statistics but the tions over the Sarkana Commission Report, hon Mtn1Stt31 might have them-the dally toll we would review the entire pattern of Centre­ has gone up and not gone down You Will State relations and come, perhaps, to give a correct rne I read the report about the number new Orientation to our fejeral concept which of terrorists kIlled I stili recall a day In the shall fU"11 some of legitimate urges of the Consult::ltlve Committee when the then people of Punjab so that a new regime, a Minister of State for Home AffaIrs Informed new concept can be evolved and I feel de­ me that the number of terrorists was a few centralisatIOn would satlsfy·the 10'191n9S of scores and that they Will ultimately be elimi­ the people of the country-not only In Punjab nated very soon That did not come to pass but In other parts of the Unton also. But that Every act of antl .. terrOrlsm has generated djd notcometopass.ldo not know where we 45 Stat. R9So/ution Re. ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Pf9sid&ntia/ 46 continuance of Proclamation in Punjab lost track of the debate; where the Sarkaria ;n cold blood in 1984? This ;s the question. Report lies. I do not know which refrigerator And unless you answer this question. you ij has been put into for cold-storage. We lost shall not be able to bring a sense of harmony another opportuntty. In Punjab. This IS your greatest failure.

Sir, In Punjab there were a number of Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I would like problems which had also figured m the the han. Minister to reply to this. The Punjab famous Rajiv-Longowal Accord. I would like situation cannot be resolved in Isolation. The to know from the hon. Minister that apart Punjab situation can only be resolved if the from fighting terronsts under the President's Sikh community living in our country, a re­ Rule. what has the Government of Punjab spected community, acommuntty which has done to move forward towards the solution of been second to none in sacrifices for the this longstanding problem. I think he should nation, for the freedom movement and for take the House Into confidence on that so the defence of the country, feels at home. at much hlS been achieved from the economic peace, reconciled With the nation, secure. front. so much has been achieved In meeting Therefore, a dialogue IS necessary. Now the some of the demands of Punjab and of the hon. MInister Just now read out the report of Sikh community. I do not think there has the Governor that Sikhs are diVided, The been ary progress on the question of utilisa­ Akahs are dIvided. Yes, they are So, you tIon of the river waters I do not think much say: "to whom shall we dlaJoguQ WIth?" That has been done,--something has be~n prom­ IS the eternal question pending for the last Ised but not much lIas been achieved on the two and a half years. You have not been able ql.A9stlon of Industrial development and cer­ to find anybody worthy of talking to in the tainly the terrrtorial problem of Punjab re­ whole of Punjab. Let us forget the Akalls. mains untouched Why there IS this total When did you last talk to Dr. Swaran Singh, stagnation? Why can'tthElse Issues be sorted the grand old man of Punjab? When did you out while your campaIgn against terrOrism last take Into confidence such eminent SIkh goes on Then ·there are very legitimate Members of thiS House like Dr. G.S. Dhillon, demands of the Sikh community I do not I would like to know Why did not you talk to have to go over them because they are your own people? They Will show you light, known to the hon. MInister. There was a they WIll share your burdon, they Will lead time. I again recall the other day In the your way Perhaps, you do not want to come deliberations of the Parliamentary Consulta­ to a solution Perhaps, you do not want totalk tive Committee when we were close to an to anybody. You want to go only With the gun. agreement on the baSIC religiOUS demands And the gun Will never secure you peace. of the Sikh Community and yet nothing was The Akalis are diVided and there are fac­ achieved What has been achieved on that? tions. Yes. But no harm in talkIng to all of them. They are emln"nt leaders-Shrr Bar· The real problem In Punjab is to heel the nala and Shri Badal. But they are dubbed as wounded psyche of the Sikh community. anti-nationals and put behind the bars and They are patriots and they are natlonalrsts of conSidered securrty rrsks Even such emi­ the highest order. They do not Yield to any­ nent people who are not politicians like body In their patriotism or In their national­ Sarvashri Khushwant Singh. ArJun Singh Ism. But there IS a sense of insecunty which and Amrik Singh-I am choosing three names dogs them all over the country. Let the hon. from three different fields There are retired Mmister tell us as to what has been done to Chief Justices, eminent wnters, retired heads heal the wounds of 1984? Why are they still of the armed forces and retired Vice .. Chan­ running? How many persons have been cellors. Why don't you call them? Why don't punished? Recently, there has been a set you taH< to them? Why don't you take the back. What is the Government doing about initiative to have a national round-table on it? When shall the Sikh community get jus­ the problems of the Punjab and the griev­ tice for the thousands of people massacred ances of th" Sikh community to which aU 47 Stat. RetoIution RlJ. OCTOBER 12,1989 Pres_ntia' continuant» 01 Proclamation in Punjab [Sh. Syed Shahabuddin) Assembly along with the Parliamentary elec· tions. Our Congress Government has to a nationaltv eminent Sikh leaders in their own great extent controlled the situation in Punjab. fietds, polhicians, jurists, writers, scholars, Now the terrorists are active only in a few education its, former civil servants, ex-serv· border areas and efforts are being made to icemen, farmers and industrialists-and their curb them also. 1think that now elections can olorious names bring honour to the country, be held peacefully in th~t state. Allout efforts people who f881 proud of being Indians, who ~hould be made to contain terrorism and have done us aU proud-may be invited? hold elections peacefully. 1 would like the Why don't you talk to them about the Punjab han. Minister to make an announcement to and about Sikhs and fInd a way? Merely this effect. Secondly, I would like to submit extending the term of the President's rule for that inspite of terrorism, people of the state six months will not do. It will take you no­ have maintained communal harmony and where towards success, nowhere near re­ that is something appreciable. In several conciliation or harmony which is the crying other states of the country like Rajasthan, need of the day. You have to do something Uttar Pradesh and some parts of Gujarat, more. there has been some communal tension but Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab have great love Sir, the Sikhs have to be made to feel and feeling of brotherhood for each other. that the nation car~s, that the nation feels This is a good sign. Inspite of vIolent terrorist concerned, that the nation shares their agony actjv~ies somehow they have maintainbj and anguish and that we are all concerned harmonious relations. People in other states and we shall do something to reassure them should also follow their example and main­ andgiv9them hopeforthefuture. Therefore, tain communal harmony. Third point which I my humble plea is thiS. We may pass this would like to make is that despite terrorism, resofution-of course I cannot stop it-but agricultural and industrial production has the political process has to be resumed. been maintained of a reasonably good level There is no other exist, no other alternative in Punjab. They have continued to make but to resume this political process and you their significant contribution in agricultural cannot deny democracy to the people of and industrial sector in the country. I would Punjab. If India is to stay democratic, elec­ like to land the farmers and people of that tions have to be held. And I do plead with he state for their contribution. Industrialists in Government that under no circumstances urban as well as rural areas of that state have should it deliberately avoid general elections given fair output. Thusevorything isgoing on in the Punjab. In fact, they should try to fairly well. Efforts should be made so that create a situation In good time that the gen­ they may also participate in the elections. eral elections and the elections to the As­ Anandpur Sahib Resolution has not be9n sembly can take place at the same time. approved even by the Sarkaria Commission but members of Akali Oal have been sticking With these words-unhappy as I am at to it. If this resolution is approved it would this extension, I wish to give the Government mean that the demand for Khalistan has a chance-with this criticisf'A, I support the been conceded to a great extent. Hence this motion. resolution should not be given recognition because it would encourage other states to ( Translation1 make similar demands and resulting frag­ mentation of the country. Even now, attitude SHRI VIRDHI CHANDER JAIN of Akal; Oaf is not clear. They still participate (Barmer): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would in the 'Shag' ceremonies of terrorists and are like to express my views in the House ra· not opposing them. Unless they condemn ;ardlng setting in motion the process of the t.rwrists in dear terms, we can not holding election. I wouki also like the Gov­ believe them. In this connectibn, we should ammant to hold election to the Punjab Stata telt the supporters of AkaIiOaI to criticise the 49 Stst. Resolution RfI. ASVINA 20.1911 (SAKA) Presidential 50 continuant:. of Proclamation in Punjab terrorists and condemn them. Unless they bouring states viz. Himachal Pradesh, do so, we cannot give recognition to them. Jammu and Kashmir, Haryana and Uttar Punjab enjoys the top most position in the Pradesh also became disturbed. In Punjab, country in Implemention of the 2O-point pro­ terrorism assumed serious proportion. Our gramme. It means that agricultural produc­ Government made all efforts to restore peace tion, industrial production and production in there. It has all along been endeavour of our other sectors is going on smoothly in the Government to maintain peace in Punjab. state and we appreciate it. Rajiv-Longowal We want prosperity in Punjab through peace. Accord can be slJccessful only on this score We are also in favour of political solution to and unity can be maintained. Therefore, the the Punjab probtem. The Government has remaining provisions of this Accord such as taken a number of steps in this direction. question of sharing Ravi-Beas water, on Meetings were organised and Rajlv-Lon­ which attitude of both the Haryana and the gowal Accord was Signed. Our Government former Punjab Governments has not been left no stone unturned to implement this e"couraglng, should be implemented A Accord but the Akalies did not display unity reasonabl9 and just solution should be found whi~h was so vital tor success of the Accord. out. AU the concerned parties should get On the contrary, they indulged in such activi­ theIr due share of water. If needed, this ties which might take the country towards matter can be sorted out through the High disintegration. It was a situation similar to Court or the Supreme Court. Rajasthan is one created by the Muslim League at the also a party to it and our interests should also tIme of independence, as a result of which be watched I wish that no more Resolution Pakistan was formed. The Aksli Dar created seeking extension of President's rule in Similar situation In Punjab by passlng the Punjab will be brought forward in the House Anandpur Sahib Resolution which has the In future. General electIons forthe Lok Sabha support of all fac110ns of Akall Oal. A number are going to held in December or January, of conspiracies were hatched to get things Eleotlons for the State Assembly should also accepted which were not permissible under be held along wrth Lok Sabha elections and the constitution. Efforts have been made to a popular Government should be Installed exploit the people of Punjab and vitiate the there. Elections should be held to restore atmosphere there It has never been the democratIc set up. However, I support this intention of our Government to continue the Resolution for extension of President's rule President's rule in Punjab for long. Members in Punjab. of oppositIon, who are unfortunately not in the House today, have also acoepted that SHAI K. D. SUL TANPURI (Simla): rlon. RaJlv-Longowal Accord was in the interest of Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Resolu­ not only the country but one and all. A tion brought forward in thIS House to extend number of persons belonging to our party 81 President's rule in Punjab. In fact, farmersof well as B.J.P. made sacrifices for It. Not only Punjab have made commendable contribu­ this, many med,a men such as Lala Jagst tion In the progress of India and Punjab is Narayan and his son, owner of a leading known for the green revolution. The Govern­ Newspaper of Punjab and many press re­ ment has done a lot for imprOVing the eco­ porters were killed. People were killed irre­ nomic condition of the farmers in Punjab. In spective of caste or creed to which they terms of prosperity, they are in the top in the belonged. Terrorists wanted to Cleat distur­ whole country. I want to congratulate the bances in Punjab in one way or ~8 other. I farmers. In so far as the President's rute is would like to say that not only our Govern­ concerned, none but Akali Dal is responsibte ment has made efforts tQ control the situ· for it. When Akall Dal gained majority in ation but our leader& also undertook tour. in elections. Barnalaji formed the Government, the state to take people into confidence and but the terrorists found berth in his Govern­ the present Governor ;s also doing very ment. Those elements took steps to destroy commendabr. job. Shri Ribeiro has also Pur' 9b. As a result of Which, an Its neigh- done commendable job in Punjab. A con- 51 Stat. R(lsolution Re. OCTOBER 12. 1989 Presidential 52 continuancs of Proclamation in Punjab ISh. K.D. Sultanpun] Government has made all possible efforts to see that a democratically elected Govern­ spiracy was also hatciled to kill him. Had our ment is formed in Punjab and right atmos­ Government not intervened in Punjab or had phere is created there. I would like to request Punjab not been brought under the Presi­ the people belonging to all the political par­ dent's rute, situation would have been differ­ ties to pay attention towards it so that peace ent there because intentions of the Barnala could be restored in the disturbed areas. tn Government were not good. Recently in order to restore normally, President rule is a Delhi, a big ratly was organised to celebrate neces€,ity. birthday atone of the opposition leaders who is Chief Minister of Hary ana. A large number Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to of people were brought to the rally. I was congratulate the Governor and his advisers pained to see that a number of people with who have made all efforts to deal with the terrortst links came to the rally and delivered odd situation and improve the conditions in speeches and Indulged in irre$ponsible talk. Punjab. Therefore, I support this AE>solution Thera can not be a greater hypocracy than seeking extension of President's rule in this rally, which Wt;lS attended not only by Punjab for another six months. smugglers but also by persons haVing links with terrorists. Money was extracted from PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: (8aramulla): the people for this rally. I oppose It. This Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, today I am not Resolution S9Qks to extend President's rule going to duliver any long speech, but I would in Punjab for another 6 months. If peace is definitely like to ask Mr. Chldambaram one restored in Punjab within this period, I would thing who has by nows acquainted himself like that the Assemb1y elections should also tully with the Punjab problem as he has paid be held along with the elQctions to the Lok several visits to Punjab at frequent intervals. Sabha so that the peopfe of Punjab could got I would like to know detailed figures In regard democratically elected Government. Democ­ 'to loss of life Rnd property in Punjab. The racy should be reinstalled and terrorists figures available With the people and those should be punished In Punjab. I think that availabl~ with me indicate that on an aver­ justice is not being done to the Harijans in age larger number of people have been Punjab. The officers of the Government are killed during the period of President's Rule. dong injustice to them. On a Writ petition, the There have bQen heavy loss of property and Punjab High Court had given a decisIon in a targe number of people have sustainQd favour of Hanjan 6!11ployees. I came to know Injuries,. The official figures show that earlier, from a number 01 people who came to meet when the Barnala Government was in power, me recently that nothtng had been done to the number of people killed and injured was implement the deCISion of the court. It has much higher and loss of property was also been stated in the deCISion that the HariJans on a higher scale. What da these figures should be provided reservation facility on indicate? The Government should take us roster O.lSI S, but nothing is being done in into confidence and give us the true picture Punjab to implement the decision. 1 woutd of conditions prevailing in the State. As far as like to urge upon the Han. Home Minister people, including myself, are cencerned, that he should take the concerned officers to there is no taker of figures given by the task for this lapse and get hIS decision imple­ Government as we have the graph of the mented as soon as possible. So far as the psychology of the people. There are no two question of extending the PrQsident's rule in opinions that killing of people has been going Punjab for another 6 months is concerned, it on unabated even during President's Rule. is a good step. There is no weight in the We are shocked to hear the incidents of argument ot some hon. Members that the killing which have become a routjne affair. Government wants to keep Punjab under Hardly a day passes in Punjab when inci­ Prestdent's rule for a longer period. Govern- dents of killings are not reported I, therefore, ment's intentions have always been clear. request Mr. Chidambaram to furnish the 53 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Pr8sidentiai 54 continuBnce of Proclamation in Punjab detailed figures. Let us know as to how many hand over the reign to Shri Barnala. Shri people were killed daily on an average. We Badal would have been a better choice. were in much distress before Shri Ribeiro Sometimes, the people at the Centre prefer assumed the charge of DG of Police in people in the States, who may act as their Punjab. The Punjab problem has time and rubber stamp. But they should note it caro­ again been discussed in this august House fully that people who are required to run and f havo also spoken on a number of democracy should be chosen by the people occasions. When Shri Ribeiro was posted as and they should be allowed a irae hand to D.G.P., Punjab, we had very high expecta­ run the administration as per the will of the tions from him as he was considered to be people. But the sycophants do not let things dedicated and disciplined soldier and an run like this. They want people to act as the able administrator. Later he was made an agents of Central Government. At that time, adviser to the Governor. In the beginning, they were in a state of terror. as far as I know when he was made D.G.P. he used to say He thought like this and misguided the Prime wilh firm conviction that Punjab problem Minister and the later chose Barnala to head would be solved with the pursuance oj policy th9 Government. Of course, Shri Barnala of bullet for bullet. He was of the opinion that was a right person. But he did not have the this policy would restore peace and nor· guts which Shri Badal would have displayed. rnalcy in Punjab. It will improve the state of Nowthat opportunity is lost. Shri Barnala has aft aIrs In the State for those who want peace. been dismissed by the Centre. I am not Recently, I came across some news reports aware what were the compulsion before the in the national press in this regard. With the Central Government. But I agree that the publications of his interviews with the jour· Centr at Government had been facing a very nalists, it appears that he is equally remorse­ unfortunate situation in Punjab. That is why ful as we are. HIs theory of bullet for bullet President's rule was imposed in the State. has failed. Finally, Shr; Ribeiro has relin­ But it is not at all wise to extend President's qljjshed the office of D.G.P. Punjab. He said rule again and again. Punjab problem is not that his policy of bullet for bullet was wrong. going to be solved by a further extension of The problem cannot be solved by it. the President's rule. I feel that the Central Government should initiate dialogue with the 13.00 hrs. people of the State in view of ths situation now prevailing there. Just now, Shri Sha­ At the time when Shri Ribeiro pro­ habuddin was making a subMission in this pounded this theory. I had, in one of my regard. I also come across a cross section of speeches, recailed the ph ilosophy of Gandh iii Sikhs while travelhng by trains, aeroplanes that violence breeds violence. When bullet is and also meet a large number of sikh leaders returned by a bullet, violence would be in the'Parliament and the Central Hall. They generated. Today, Shri Ribeiro subscribes heartily feel that our country should remain to the theory propounded by Gandhiji. This united and the Punjab problem should be does not mean that tiring will not be resorted solved. But how long can we wait for this. Is to under any circumstances The Govern· it advisable that the DG of police or the ment will have to take some measure or the Governor of the State should report the state other when terrorism raises its ugly head and of affairs prevailing there and suggest meas· some misguided people challenge the ver­ ures for a solution. GO'vernment in Punjab dict of the voters. But the Punjab problem is cannot be run by these two persons. Situ­ not a case of law and order alone. It is a ation in Punjab should be brought under political problem. That is why at the very control. We are the repres&ntatives of the outset, t had requested the Central Govern­ peopte and any decision with regard to Punjab ment to instal a popular Government in problem should bo taken in this august House. Punjab. Of course, there were also problems before the Central Government. It might be I understand the difficulties being faced a mistake on the part of the Government to by the Governmen1 and I do agree tha1 55 Stat. Resolution R•. OCTOBER 12, 1989 P,esldsntial 56 continuancs of Proclamation in Punjab {Prof. SaHuddin Soz] Punjabs alone but for the whole country. Punjab is very much a vhal part of our coun .. President's ruIQ should be extended further. try. Therefore, the problem of Punjab has Even then tet us consider the solution sug­ never remained isolated to Punjab itself. gested by Shri Jain and see what is going to Because h is linked up with so many other happen in the new lok Sabha. But feeling in national issues. It is unfortunate that we the House is that there should be no further have not been able to see a possibility of 8x18nsion of President's rule in Punjab. Let stability in Punjab. I listened to the charges the people choose their Government and it made against the Government and the ruling should be the responsibility of the popular pgrty by hon. Shri Shahabuddin while initiat- Government to maintain law and order in the Jng this debate from that side. I do not agree State. The administratIOn In Punjab should with the accusations that the Government is lot be left in the hands of one person, not interested in any solution. If the Govern­ whether he IS Mr. Ray or Mr. Gill. ment or the leader Shri Rajiv Gandhi is not interested in any solution, what was the {English] purpose of that historic Rajiv-Longowal Accord? In fact Rajiv-Longowal Accord was MR. SPEAKER: Now we adjourn for a historic step and a lot of risks were in­ lunch till 2.05 P.M. volved. If the full implementation has not been possible, ~ is not for us to blame the 13.03 hrs. Government alone. It is not as if the situation In Punjab today is unsatisfactory because it The Lok Sabha then adjourn9d for lunch IS the making of the Government. No, it IS not till five mmutes past fourteen of the clock so. But we wish that there should have been a peaceful settlement, a political settlement and a lasting settlement In PunJab. Safar, we have not been able to come to a solution. 14.09 hr•. Now, we must look back first to what has The Lok Sabha fe-8ssembled at nine happened In the past, what is the current mmutes past fourteen of the clock position and what are the possibilities in the future. There are a few factors which I would like to emphasise In the course of thiS de­ [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER In the Chai~ bate.

STATUTORY RESOLUTION RE. CON­ Punjab in spite of Its turmoil, in spite af TINUANCE IN FORCE OF THE PRESI· the agitations, insurgencies, the soclo-eco­ DENTIAl PROCLAMATION IN RESPECT nomic life there has not been disturbed. This OF PUNJAB FOR A FURTHER PERIOD OF IS one very important aspect which should be SIX MONTHS FROM 11TH NOVEMBER, considered from all angles. If It is merely '989· CON TO. Insurgencies, the underground elements, then the things would have been solved MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Shn Tombi much earlier. Now, we have very good rea­ Singh. sons to suspect the political activists, the political leadership, who are working on the (English] ground, excepting the Congress and certain other progresslvQ political parties. The Sikh SHRt N. TOMBI StNGH (Inner Mampur): organisations like the Akalis are still holding Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the A990~ the kay to some ot the insurgent activities. If lutlOn seeking ex,enStOn of Prestdent's rule the over-ground leaders cut-off themselves in Punjab. The sufferings In Puniab are not from the underground activists and if they merely the sufferings In Punjab and for the stop guiding from the ground by not provid- 57 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) PftlsicJgntial 58 continuance of Proclamation in Punjab ing them money t arms and other things. the people on our border, and the border on the solution could have been possible. other side, when the neighbouring countries are not friendly for instance, by Pakistan on It has been mentioned time and again in its border wnh Punjab. The question is how spite of attempts made by Khalistan activ­ far, after the coming in of the new regime in ists, the so-called extremists in the name of Pakistan, training of revolutionaries, insur­ the wound in the pysche of the sikh commu­ gents, supply of arms, ammunitions and nity, that it has not been possible for them to money from across the border have been create any communal situation in that part of controlled. We would like Government to the country. It is quite understandable. Be­ spell out the progress made in this behalf. cause the Sikh community and Hindu com­ munity are basically bound to the same root. I have a few suggestions to make. I They cannot be divided. They are brothers. belong to a border State on the north .. east~ They are not merely brothers of the same ern regIon. Luckily, the Government of Burma soil but they have been rooted from the very is a very friendly and also, more or less. a beginning io the origin of their religion and so harmless Government, not very powerful on. So, communal solution or the communal militarily or otherwise. It is not hostile to us. division has been impossible. This is impos­ Even there, the border is creating problems sible. So, any organisation or any movement due to narcotics and other smuggling activi­ working on this basis has failed. ties today. I understand that BSF and other para-military forces working on the border It has been said that police alone cannot there are demanding more and more battal­ solve the problem. That is at! right. But with­ Ions, for keeping a better check on smug­ out police we cannot see any pOSSibility of gling transactions. That, by Itself. is a very controlling the situation which IS eXisting In Important aspect of our SOCial economy. On Punjab. So, I earnestly appreciate the vari­ the other side, this narcotics traffic has ous stages in which the police have con­ harmed the youth of this country. trolled or have tried to put itself In the picture in the series of changing situations. At some On the Pakistan side, we have got not stage, we have reasons to CritiCise the police merely the traffic of narcotics. Narcotics must also. But then. they have learnt from their be coming in huge quantities from this bor­ experience that it is not they alone who can der; but what is more harmful is the coming solve the problem but they have to playa big in of arms, money and the element of training role in solVing the problem. given to the insurgents and Punjab extrem­ ists on the Pakistani side of the border. It The police IS a very important In solVing should be stopped. Only then will a solution the Punjab problem. That means the Home to the Punjab problem, to some extent, be MinIstry. Its administratIon and other chan­ possible. nels have to playa very important role in bringing abollt a change there. A question We have been discussing a political was asked as to what Government can do solution, against the background of the Rajiv­ WIthin the further SIX months for which it ;s Longowal Accord. Upto what extent have we going to be extended. Of course. Govern­ benefited from it? This remains a controver­ ment can do a lot. Killings are. In away. sial point, but we can say with some amount continuing. Whether their numbers are in­ of satisfaction and a good amount of appre- creasing or decreasing, is a question which ciation of our leadership. that at a very critical can be put. But the number of killings cannot stage. a very bold step, a very risky step was determine whether the situation has turned taken to enter into the Rajiv-LongowaJ Ac­ forthe better or worse. Some solution should cord. Longowal, that friendly leader, died. be found. Only then wifl killings stop. After that, a solution requires the considera­ tion of so many other factors 8.g., regarding But I see today the role pfayed bV the Chandigarh, assessment of territories be .. 59 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER ~ 2, 1989 Presidential 60 continuance of Proclamation In Punjab [Sh. N. Tombi Singh] needs more BSF battalions and forces. To my knowledge, they have demanded them. Itween Haryana and Punjab, and solution of The Government of India should immedi­ the water problems Involved between Punjab ately fulfil their demand and strengthen the and the neighbouring States. These steps security on the borders because prevention should be taken. IS always better than cure. All undesirable things on these borders should be checked Why should we blame RaJlv Gandhi, the carefully and seriously. present regime and the Congress alone? We have to blame, rather very positively, the With these words, I support the Resolu­ present leadership of Haryana, VIZ. Devi Lal. tion regarding extension of President's Rule What IS he dOing about this problem? He has In Punjab. to play his role and help In arriving at a solution to the cntlcal Punjab problem This [ Translation] IS a national problem If he claims to be a nationalist and thmks In terms of national SHRI KALI PRASAD PANDEY (Gopal­ welfare, he should think of making his own ganl): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I support the contribution In regard to Punjab Resolution moved by the hon. Minister.

What IS the role played by them so far? I have been observing that as and when The people of the other communities, people the House took up a diScussion on the issue of different polltlC.al organtsatlons, people of of PreSident's Rule In Punjab, all the hon. different sections, leaders of the Akall Group, Members have expressed serious concern they should also come out not merely with on thiS Issue. Once I became curious to statements but with certain practical sug­ undertake a tour of Punjab and took stock of gestions and practical steps, wIth a sense of the Situation on the spot with a view to commitment that they stand for the commit­ ascertaining the correctness of the news ment entered Into In the Accord But they betng reported in the newspapers. I visited have not been able to do It On the contrary, the places from Anandpur to Nangal and there are "t,1l suspIcions that they are help· saw myself that the SituatIon was not so bad Ing the underground people In this regard. In as the people outSide the State used to say. spite of the unhappy situation Insplte of There were a handful of persons who were dissatisfaction about the unstable situation already Involved In cnmlnal ac.tlvltles. There In the Punjab, the Government IS trYing to are others who, being unemployed have stabilise the thln9S over thel P been misled by the terrorist I would like to Inform the han. Minister that one everybody We a~preclat~ the stdnd of the Govern­ In the country know that some or the other ment, the proposal of the Government that external force IS Involved In thiS act of terror­ the PreSident's Rule should be further ex­ Ism Shnmatl Benezlr Bhutto came to power tended. Let us hope that this should be thE? through elections But the attitude of Paki­ last extension of the PreSident's Rule over stan towards India remains to be the same. there and nothing more would be welcome First of all, the Government should take note than a regular Qlectlon and the government of thiS Indld has a history of its own. Shri of the people there on the election baSIS Shahbuddln was nght when he said that this problem should be resolved through demo­ I would like to suggest that the border cratic methods. In this connection, it may be area In Punjab IS No 1 and other border recalled that certain people, be It Shri Devilal areas on the Bangladesh Side, on the Bur­ or for that matter somebody else, put ob­ mese side. on the Chinese Side should be structions in the implementation of the Rajiv­ more senously checked so that things may Longowal Accord. We never backed out not be worsening In the near 1uture. Burma from the Accord reached with Sant Lon­ Border on Mizoram, Nagaland, and MaOlpur gowal. It has been rightly said by some 61 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) PresidentiaJ 62 continuance of Proclamation in Punjab people including Shri Ribeiro that it is not a labourious and, as a result the state has good thing that the people who have been achieved a lot of progress. But the Govern· misled due to unemployment should not be ment should make special provisions to treated as terrorists. tn order to curb this provide employment to unemployed people. tendency, the Government of Punjab held At the same time, I must say that the Govern­ open public meetings and started a cam­ ment should spare no stones unturned in paign of recruitments in Government depart­ eliminating the people who are providing ments. The Governor of Punjab held meet­ shelter to terrorists. Every effort should be ings with the people and proceeded with his made to remove the problem of unemploy­ mass contact programme. This resulted in ment from the State. Our history has alt difusing the situation prevailing there. But I along been a peaceful one whether ;t was he would like to say that the problem cannot be era of Panditji or Gandhiji. We have always solved only by provIding employment to been worshippers of peace. Even today, we unemployed youths. are worshippers of peace and want to solve all problems through peaceful means. The Today, everybody knows the state of terrorist problem could be solved through terrorism prevailing in Punjab. It was only the following method: "Prem nahin Kartavya yesterday that we came to know from the marg se, nar ko kabhi digata hai Sudha pikar T.V. and Aadiothat aterronst named Satnam Manav, Shlshdan de Jata haL" SIngh. carryinCJ an award of Rs. 1 lakh on his head was killed by the police. It IS definitely I, would therefore, like that the probtem a commendable performance of the Punjab In PunJ8b calls for a political as well as police. It IS not so that the police sprays democratic solution. With a view to holding bullets on anybody and everybody. One elections in Punjab, Han. Pnme MimstAr thing that I would like to say emphatically IS signed an Accord with a great personality that the general public have become totally like Sant Longowal. Even then peace and dlsguested listening to the incidences of tranquility could not be restored in the State. terrorism. But it is not at all justifiable to brand Sant Longowal fell victim to terrorists' bul­ other people as terrorists only for the reason lets. Shri Aajiv Gandhi is of the view that the that a handful of persons are involved in this problem could be fully solved if the Accord act. People who commit bank dacoities or signed with Sant Longowal is implemented other such cnmes should not be enlisted in in its original form. So far as other political the terrorist category. There should be sepa~ parties are concerned, I have seen what the rate laws for prosecuting such persons on condition of these parties are. On the one the lines of the one enacted for the terrorists hand, they say that the Prime Minister does during the last session. There should bQ not hold talks with the Oppos~jon, on the separate provisions for the terrorists and other, they do not give any concrete sugges­ other criminals. There should be no uniform tion regarding the Punjab problem which provision for both the categories. could enable Shri Aajiv Gandhi to solve the problem. Their stand is also not clear as they We must agree today that people com­ raise objection to President's rule in Punjab, mitting other type of crimes use the same but its utility can be judged from the com­ types of rifles and guns as the terrorists and parative figures of terrorists being kilJed in naxahtes use. Punjab today as compared to the number of people which used to be shot down earlier by

It has also been correctly said that there the terrorists. Similarly I there has been a IS no Hindu Sikh fet!hng in Punjab. Had there substantial improvement in the law and order oiten any such feeling, Punjab might not situation there. T!le h~n. Minister is quite Ilave done as much progress as It did. f,,­ expenenced and I would like that by giving day. there was a news report that Punjab has priority to democracy, elections to State secured first position in the maner of electri .. Assembly and elections to the Lok Sabha fication. The people of the State are very should be hekf simultaneously. 63 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12,1989 Pf'9sidsntJal 84 continuance of Proclamation In Punjab [EngHsh] Punjab is number one. It is second to non •. Even after Independence, at the time of SHRI SRIBALLAV PANtGRAHI (oeo· Chinese aggression and during Indo-Pak grah): I rise to support the Statutory Resolu­ war, the role of Punjab, the contribution of tion moved by the hon. Minister of State for Punjab has been enormous, has been laud .. Home Affairs, Shr; Chidambaram, sQeking able. In independent India, in the field of extension of President's rule in Punjab. economic deveJopment also, Punjab has played a leading role. Inasmuch astheGreen There is no other alternative available Revolution is concerned, it has been quhe a either with the Government or the people success in Punjab. Again, it is heartening to except to extend the President's rule till a observe that despite these disturbances, congenial climate is built up in the State for under the President's rule, whh the support holding Assembly elections. The extremists given by the Central Government, the aco­ continue with their spree of violence every­ nomicdevelopmentof Punjat is not affected. day. But there is a redeeming feature that Everybody from outside is amazed how, very top terrorists are being arrested and top despite such bloodshed there, despite such terrorists on whose heads awards worth a terrible shuation there, the economic de­ lakhs of rupees are there, are surrendering velopment of Punjab is not affected. Some themselves. As indicated by the hon. Minis­ hon. friends have already stated that in the ter, the terrorism has reached a critical stage matter of implementation of 20-Point Pro­ and both Central and State Governments gramme, Punjab has topped the list. In the are doing their best to contain and curb it. field of agriculture also, their march towards further progress and prosperity is going on. We welcome the statement of the han. On the industrial development front also, the Governor that elections would be held in proy:-ess is satisfactory. Punjab for the lok Sabha together with the rest of the country. We Sincerely wish that My prevIous speaker, Mr. Tombi Singh the parliamentary elections are passed off has rightly mentioned about the Rajiv-Lon­ smoothly In that State so that it paves the gowal Accord. Knowing fully well that from way for holding Assembly elections. the point of view of electoral prospects this Accord would be a set back to Congress, our There IS a criticism that the Government Prime Minister, who also happens to be the lacks political will in finding a permanent President of the Indian National Congress, political solution to the problem. Undoubt· went in for it. 'n his anxiety to restore nor­ edly, this is not just a law and order problem. malcy, in his anxiety to curb terrorism once h is much more than that. A political solution for all, in his anxiety to see that the democ­ has got to be found to it. How can it be done racy flourishes in that part of the country has got to be thought of there is so much also. he went in for this historic Rajiv-lon­ criticism against the Government, against gowal Accord. He went all out to implement the Prime Minister? I think those who are ~ in letter and spirit. But we all know the criticiSing are doing It blindly. They are doing obstructions. As you know, Sir, the sharing ~ just for the sake of criticism. They are those of Chandigarh and so many other things are political parties which have very narrow there which concern not only the State of partisan political approach. They are those Punjab but also the State of Haryana. Who is who do not like to cooperate With the Gov­ ruling Haryana ow and what sort of coopera­ ernment in restoring normalcy in PunJah. tion they are lending to the Government of There is lot of disturbance going on there. India, we aU know. Rather, every step being taken by the Government of India is being Punjab, as you know, Sir, is our pride, is opposed bV them. It is time that we have to the pride of Hindustan. Punjab has played a fight out terrorism with all our might. We have very very significant rate, a galtant role in the to put an end to this bloodshed which is going freedom struggle. In respect of sacrifices, on there. The Governor of Punjab is doing a 65 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVINA 20, 1911 (&AKA) Pr9sidential 66 continuant» of Proclamation in Punjab commendable job there. He is sparing no a threat and it is a national problem, it should patns. He is making aU efforts for the resto­ be the endeavour of all the political parties to ratIOn of normalcy there to see that in the cooperate. Our Prime Minister, thanks to field of davelopmfnt, Punjab does not lag him, has consulted Opposition leaders on behind, despite the disturbances which are several occasions on the Punjab situation. going on there. We are happy to see that But what has been the outcome? That has when there is a wave of communalism in been construed as a weakness of the Prime every part of the country, Punjab remains Minister or the Government by the Opposi" unaffected, which again proves that the tion. So, the Opposition also should realise people of Punjab like peace. They do not their mistake and shouJd appreciate the want communal riots. They very much want seriousness of the problem and thay should communal harmony and that is a welcome come forward and join hands with the Gov­ feature and what is now required is that we ernment to find out a political situation to this have to deal firmly with terrorism which is problem. sponsored, supported and encouraged by foreign hands. It is common knowledge that With these words, Sir, I support the arms on a large scale are being supplied Statutory Resolution In seeking extension of from across the borCJer and there is also a President's Rule In Punjab Thank you, Sir. conspiracy going on. Naturally atthis point of time is it not a fact that the role of the [ Translation] Opposition, the conduct of the Opposition IS adding to this problem? Particularly for the SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABULI (Sri­ last several months what they have done, nagar): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the condi­ how they have boycotted Parliament, what tion in Punjab is very tense now. I feel that they are speaking now outside, does it not never before in history has there been so contnbute or does It not add to thiS problems much loss of life and property, nor has bru­ of terrorism? Does It not send fillip to thiS tality been seen to the extent it IS witnessed terrorism In Punjab? Can the Opposition today In Punjab. I would like to put a poser to deny this? All that they are saying, all that the hon. Minister as to how many persons they are dOing IS that they are polluting the have been killed and what is the value of political atmosphere of the country, for which prosperty destrayed ever since the Presi­ we can certainly blame the Opposition and dent's rule was imposed there. We will have any sensible man will Hnd 1ault with the to make a comparative study of this figure Opposition. Naturally in these cIrcumstances with that during Barnala Government's re­ when there cannot be election held there in gime because when Shri Barnala's Govern­ the near future for the Assembly-and of ment was dismissed, the ruling party at the course in a democracy nobody would like Centre had said that they had to kick it out imposition of President's Rule and again its because the loss of life and property had extenSion, that way also Punjab has set a increased beyond limit and terrorism cou'ld record-we have to go for the amendment of not be controlled, I would like to know whether the Constitution Itself to prOVide for PresI­ destruction has Increased or decreased af­ dent's Rule at a stretch up to a maximum ter dismissal of Shri Barnala's Government. period of three years. Is the Government F rom the statistics, it appears that the loss of happy about it? We are sure that under the life and property has increased after the compelling situation the Government had to imposition of President's rule there. J would do this. Naturally the Government are doing express my anguish over the dismissal of their wO~ but it is time that all should work Barnala Government. It is curious that the combindly including the Opposition parties Congress Party had tried its best to install since this is a national problem and this Shri Barn ala's Government. This was a good poses a threat to our democracy which is,so step because this question was not of much fondly loved. We Iov. democracy, we are signHicance as to whether Shr; Barnal. or proud of Indian democracy and when it poses Shri Badal should have been made Chi8f 67 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12. 1989 PreskJential continuanC9 of Proclamation in Punjab {Sh. Abdul Rashid Kabuli] India is getting a bad name in the whole world due to this. I have recoived a number Minister but a way for democracy was found of reports from America and Europe that out in Punjab. ThiS democracy granted a India is getting a bad name in other countries s1atus to Shri Barnala and he made his best for ':1,3 ,troying the human rights in Punjab. efforts but the way, his Government was The hon. Minister will have to take the House kicked out for electorals gains in Haryana in confidence about the reported violation of elections, did not display good taste. , regret human rights in Punjab. A number of inci­ to say that the allegations against Shri Bar­ dents have come to my notice in which police nala were made only at the time when the has been found to be involved in committing etection scenario in Haryana reached a criti­ atrocities. That tarnishes the image of India. cal stage and the Congress Party was bent We are very proud of the Indian culture and upon wining the election, come what may. democracy. Ours is the biggest democracy No such charges were made against Shri in the whole world but when such incidents Barnala before the eloctions and he was are reported in U.S.A. or any other European made a seape goat at the altar of Haryana country that innocent people are being killed efectlons. This has formed par of our history in Punjab by the police, we become defence­ of misfortune because the destruction in less. A U.S.A. based prominent leader of Punjab IS that of the entire country and IS not Khallstan had circulated somb pamphlets in limited to Punjab alone I would Itke~o ask the India and I feel that he was successful in hon. Minister as to wildt has been the inten­ tuning the American Congress anti-India sIty of destruction of resources and how since such statements were flasteed all our many people have been killed there till now. world, the senators of American Congress The resources which could be uttllsed forthe and the youths supported the creation of development of our country have been Khallstan a nJmber of times. There mayor wasted due to the Punjab problem. Punjab may not be truth In allegatIon of excesses on has proved as gigantica problem for us as sikhs In India but the way it IS being given Afghanistan for U.S S R. at one time. We publicity abroad has tarnished our image. should see that Situation In Punjab may not For example, in a recent incidence, two take a turn similar to one In which U.S.S R. women of Punjab working in a bank were had to withdraw from Afgf"\anlstan I regret to apprehended by the police and taken to say that we have not adopted a good poliCy police station where during interrogation they on Punjab Even on earlier OCt aSlons, 15ald were mercilessly beaten. Perhaps this inci­ that the problem would not be solved with the dence took place in Ambala. The Police was help of 0ptHatlon Blue Slar. It would on:y mterrogating them to ~now the whereabouts aggravate the problem and you have seen of their husbands. When they saki that they where we have reached gradually. I would did not know their whereabouts as they were like to tell the loss that country IS suffering absconding for several years for fear of due to the Punjab problem It IS not only the police. Upon this, they were mercilessly loss In terms of ',fe and property In Punjab, beaten up in the police station. A detailed but the age old bond of brotherhood between description of the incident was reported in Hindus and Sikhs has been destroyed. As the foreign media. They were released later the hon Speaker also said that base of on but are still undergOing treatment. Their secularism In Punjab rested on strong-foun­ condition IS very senous. Tt'1ese are not dation and mutual bond between the two Isolated incidents but these are repeated. communities has been so deep rooted that it One thing I would like to teU about Shri CQuid not be easily broken. But unfortunately Barnala Once he called a meeting of the some eiemel"'ts in both the communities cross-section of the Members of Parliament, seem to be bent upon breaking the age old I was also present in it. He narrated a story bond of affinity. They have succeeded in that once he managed to get it announced their eVil designs to some extent and both on the A.I.R. that the Government would the communrties are at the toggerhead now. welcome the youths who had migrated to 69 Stilt. Resolution Re. ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Presidential 70 continuance of Proclamation in Punjab Pakistan or other places for fear of police. In ation. Therefore the Government should find response to that announcement, when 10 out a peaceful solution at the earliest. A sikh youths about whom he had already solution to the problem should be found with talked to Shri Ribeiro also, were crossing the the help of Punjabiat. border to come to India and were unarmed, they were shot dead. When this was re­ SHRI JAGANNATH PATTNAIK ported to Shri Ribeiro, he replied that the (Kalahandi): Mr. Deputy-Speaker Sir, I rise B.S.F. inchargs there had said that it was his to support the Resolution which has been responStibility and not that of Shri Ribeiro. introduced to extend the President's rule in Was this matter reported at any stage? A Punjab. We Congressmen have always responsible person like the Chief Minister of believed in the slogan which says that- Punjab, Shri Sarnala had to make this com­ pl3int. When those ten persons were taken UPunjab ho ya Guwahati apna dash apni to the crerr. ~tion 9 round, thousands of people neetl participated in theIr cremation. Jitm bhasha utne pradesh phir bhi Hindus­ tani ek" Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to sub­ mit that the conditions created by the police This IS the Congress culture, and its in Punjab need to be looked into because if political goal. So there was no need for hon. the police gets more powers in democracy, Shri Kabul; to have said all that he said or to we face its adverse effects which have to be give any suggestions. ThiS ;s India's policy borne by the whole democracy. In this re­ and the Congress(l)'s religion. There has gard, I would like to ask whether the Central been lot of improvement in the situation in Government has paid attention to the com­ Punjab after the ImpOSitIon of President's plaints received from the people in Punjab? rule in the State. The agricultural and indus­ The Government should pay attention to the trial production In Punjab has not received misery faced by the people and their com­ any set back due to acts of violence. The plaints received by you. situation there was extremely tense before the imposition of PreSIdent's rule. It had Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, In the end, with become difficult to gather Intelligence re­ your permiSSion, I want to say that Punjabi­ ports from there. Since the Imposition of culture should be kept In mInd while improv­ President's rule Intelligence reports have Ing conditions in Punjab. It is a composite been coming in regularly helping the Gov­ culture of Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. It ernment in arresting the terrorists and deal­ encbodies their regional aspirations. I would ing with terrorrsm in an effective manner. like to point out that the Government has This is the right step towards solVing the rejected the Anandpur Sahib resolution but Punjab problem. The hardcoreterronsts have police rule, armed forces etc. are not its either been apprehended by the police or solution. Therefore I want to request you that killed in encounters. We have never favoured a political solution is indispensiblefor Punjab. the Idea of a 'bullet for a bullet' or any other This problem cannot be solved by extending form of violence for that matter KnOWing the President's rule by 6 months to one year fully well that the atmosphere was not con­ This wi" only spread the poison even further ducive for holding olee-tlon:, and rflg.Jrdless Punjab is our protector and the farmer of of our Party's POSItIon In the State W~ want Punjab is growIng foodgrains for the entire ahead and held elections there In Older to India. The solidiers of Punjab protect our restore normalcy in the StntA The Govern­ borders and for the protection of Punjab we ment that came Into power failed to come up will have to hold discussion in an atmos­ to the expectations dEl~pita Central GO\lern~ phere of love. We wiU have to initiate dia· ment's assistance. Therefore. that Govern­ Iogue. The present conditions can be im­ ment had to go. proved only through love and not through hatred. The axtention of police rule and ~urGov.rnment is committed to imple­ Governor's rule will further aggravate in situ .. menting the Rajiv .. Longowal Accxlrd but this 71 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential continuance of ProcJll(T7ation In Punjab ISh. Jagannath Pattnaik] arnmant came to power, expectations were high that the Punjab problems would be \&. not possible without the cooperation of the solved and people would live in harmony. Punjab and Haryana Governments. All of us But the situation worsened day .. by .. day and a are aware of the practical hinderances that time came when the Barnala Government are coming in the way of implementing this proved ineffective in protecting the life and Accord but still the Congress Government property of the people. Just now hon. Shri and hon. Shri Aajiv Gandhi will fuffill the Kabuli was saying that the Barnala Govern­ commitment of implementing the Accord. ment was toppled perhaps because the Congress wanted to come to power in Har­ I had an opportunity to visit the Golden yana. T ample in Amritsar about 5-7 days back, I feel that things have improved a lot atter the 15.00 hrs. Operation Black Thunder. The fear among the people for the past 4~6 years that they A Government in Punjab cannot in any cannot enter the Gurudwara has been re· way influence elections in Haryana. The moved, Today people frequ&nt the Gu­ atmosphere in Punjab was different from rudwara without any tear. The law and order that in Haryana. So fed-up were the people situation in Punjab has significantly improved of Punjab that they were willing to do any­ and there is no communal tension between thing to change the depressing scenario. Hindus and Sikhs there. The Hindu-Muslim­ The trouble started because of some Minis­ Sikh unity is at its pinnacle there. A lot has ters in the Barnala Government who gave been done towards the success of the strat­ shelter to terrorists. The volatile situation egy for Punjab which envisages checking forced the Samala Government to resign terrorism and defusing the tension in the and President's rule had to be imposed in the border areas of the State. Keeping in view State. This led to an improvement in the the prevailing situation and for the restora~ situation and an increase in agriculfural tion of democracy in the State, it is neces­ producton. sary to extend the President's rule there for some months more. Along with this I would 15.01 hrs. suggest that elections to the Punjab State Assembly be held with the general elections. [SHRI SHAAAD DIGHE in the Chair] I woulc' like to tell all the political parties to take the responsibility of creating an aware­ Han. Shri Shahabuddin said just now ness among the people throughout the that the Government had not paid any atten­ country about the problem of terrorism. tion to rural development. I would like to People who have suffered at the hands of inform him that a lot has been done in this terrorists should be told that the entire nation directicn. Consequently, a wave of happi· IS with them. The unemployed youth in Punjab ness surged through Punjab. Apart from this should be provideo employment. In this way a Rail Coach Factory has been set up there we have to solve these problems. With these to provide jobs to the unemployed youth and words I support the Resolution for the exten· bonus has also been given to farmers. Be­ sion of President's Rule in Punjab. sides, new projects have been set up and several concessions have been granted for SHRI JANAK RAJ GUPTA (Jammu): which the Government has spent a huge Mr. Deputy· Speaker Sir,l support the Rasa· amount of money. The common man· in lution moved by the hon. Home Minister for Punjab is much happier, much better off than extension of President's rule in Punjab. he was before. These are signs of changing conditions; conditions that are changing for I was in Punjab when eJections were the better. But still much remains to be done held the,re. Elections were heki in a very and the moment is not ripe for hokling elec· calm atmaaphsrs. When the Barnala Gov· tions. Even now arms are being smuggled :··:.:~.~,~:t~~~!/~I:~'T;ii:~"\: 73 Stat_ R.soIutlon Re. ASVINA 20.1911 (SAKA) Presidential 74 contirtuanc9 of Proclamation in Punjab from Pakistan. Pakistan is still not mending sQaling of the border between the two ooun­ its ways. Terrorists trained there are being tries. Until smuggling activities are curbed, sneaked into Punjab. Incidents of bank rob­ the terrorist operations will receive oonstant beries and killings of innocent people are stili support and strength with which terrorist taking place. I mean to say that things have activfties will be organised Therefore the not improved in absolute terms. primary requirement is to eliminate the smuggling activities. This ;s the main reason I have to deal with Punjab almost every­ behind terrorism in Punjab today. Efforts day since it is one of my neighbouring States. have been made to seal the Punjab border Anti-social elements are very active there. but it has failed to solve the problem. Smug­ So I feel that the GovernrT'ent should prop­ gling activities are now being carried out on erty assess the situation. Though the Presi­ a large scale through the R~jasthan border dent's rule cannot be extended indefinitely, and arms are also being smuggled into the elections should not be held until the situ­ country through that route. Therefore, until ation becomes normal Holding of elections and unless entire length of our border with nowcould lead to dangerous consequences Pakistan be it in Punjab, J&K, Rajasthan or because many terronst groups are still ac­ Gujarat is completely sealed and complete tive check is ensured with the deployment of defence forces, tha measures taken to check The General elections are round the terrorism will prove ineffective. That is why corner. If a solution can be found till then we the Government will have to make appropri· could have the elections there also. The ate arrangements so that smuggling activi­ need of the hour, of course, IS to extend the ties in the border areas may be checked and President's rule for another six months. The infiltration of people trained across the bor­ situation should be closely monitored and der may also be curbed. One han. Member elections should be held at an appropriate from Jammu and Kashmir was pointing out time. Just now that the situation had improved under the Barnala Government but the SHRI GIRDHARI LAL VYAS (Bhilwara): Congress Government at the Centre toppled Mr. Chairman, Sir, I support the Statutory it in order to further its own interest in the Resolution for extenSion of PreSident's rule Haryana elections and as a result of which In Punjab for a further period of SIX months. the situation deteriorated. This assessment IS Incorrect. I want to say that the Barnala Many hon. Members have rightly sug­ Government could not control terrorist activi­ gested that because of terrorist activities this ties and at the same time some of his minis· IS not a favourable time for holding elections tars were secretly assisting the terrorists on either to the Assembly or Parliament. During account of which the terrorist movement the President's rule in the State, the Gover­ received constant support. This .s why the nor has made every effort to remedy the administrative measures could not prove srtuation. The police too has taken tough effedive. Therefore, I would like to submit measures to put an end to terrOrtsm but they that the Barnala Government was toppled have not been fully successful in their efforts. not with an eye on Haryana electIOns but to More we try to suppress It. more ~ aggra­ curb the activities of the terrorists in which vates. There are several countries which are the Government of Punjab had become behind the terrOrism in India. Terrorists are completely ineffective and hence there was being trained in Pakistan and they are re­ no mischief or design behind the toppling of ceiving funds from U.S.A. Canada, England BarnaJa Government. The step taken by the and other countries. Besides. narcotics like Hon. Prrma Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi was hashjsh etc. are being smuggled into Punjab perfectly timed. Jf the Barnal. Government from Paktstan on a very large scale and this had been allowed to continue for more tim., is another source of funding the terrorists. So much harm would have been done to Punjab. the Government needs to take steps tuch as Therefore. this action was justified. Todav it 75 Stat. Resolution Re. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential 76 contlnuanC9 of Proclamation In Punjab (Sh. Girdhari Lal Vyas] fore, we have made appropriate provision irrigation, apply of power, fertiliser and seeds Is essential tOt8l<8 strong steps to strengthen in this state so that tt can produce eoough to the administration there. I would like to sub· meet the requirements of the r,st of the mit that efforts to separate Punjab from the country. This is why I had said that Punjab is Indian Union are not only being made in the backbone of Ind is. Its development is the Punjab but also outside the country. The development of India and if it is separated, ~ Sikh expatriates, who are tinancialty sound, will weaken the nation. Therefore, strict ac­ are providing all possible support to this tion should be taken against those engaged secessionist move. The Govern ment of India in terrorist activities. Our action should be so enjoys cordial relations with all these nations strong as to annihilate the terrorist groups and an understanding of providing mutual and India's integrity may be protected and it support also exists atthe political level. Under may emerge as a powerful nation with Punjab such circumstances our Government should making maximum contribution to its devel­ exert pressure on these countries to take opment. I welcome and support the resolu­ necessary steps to check the activities of tion brought by the han. Minister for the Indians who are engaged In incrting and extension of President's rule in this state. supporting secessionists in our country. The Government should take definite measures SHRI SHANTARAM NAIK (Panaji): Mr. in this direction and until this is done It Will not Chairman, Sir, I support the resolution moved be possible to check terrorist activities. In the House for the extension of President's Therefore. it IS essential to look into this rule in Punjab. We should realise that the matter. Punjab problem cannot be easily solved because terrorism is not an ordinary criminal Secondly, as regards the development activity. works, it is a fact that certain development works have been undertaken.·A railway Even when terrorism had become a factory has been set up and the farmers global phenomenon and it had spread all have been provided assIstance in other dif· over the world. India remained unaffected ferent ways. I think that the 9xtent of work because the people did not give it any sup­ which has been undertaken under the Rajiv port. But eventually a pocket developed Government for the progress of the farmers, where terrorism could find a safe haven. knows no parallel in ear Iter days under any History stands testimony to the fact that Government. This can be verified through wherever terrorism has struck, it has re­ the production scene as well. Despite the tained its hold for a long time. At times it delicate situation the State IS faCing the becomes very difficult to put complete end to production has not received any set back. As It. Therefore, it needs to be accepted that a matter of fact, it is constantly increasing. terrorism will continue in some form or the This makes clear that all round development other for a very long time. has taken place. It can definitely be claimed that Punjab is the backbone of our country. The terrorists do not belong to Punjab. If Punjab ceases to be the integral part of They are mostly outsiders and are trained India, it will weaken the whole nation. This outside the country. They are also funded State is the granary of the country and the from abroad. After their activities in Punjab whole country depends on It for Its foodgrain are over they take shelter in the neighbour· requirements. Thus. Punjab IS the bulwarkof ing State. The terrorists in general do not the entire nation. When development efforts belong to Punjab although there are some of are made here. it is done with the objective them who belong to this State. that it should contribute in taking the country forward and in making It strong and powerful. In a T.V. serial which I saw last night, As men~oned earlier, Punjab makes a major one Hindu and ona Sikh ware shown sitting contribution in our food requirements. Thera- across a table. When the Hindu was que8- n Stat. Resolution Re. ASVJNA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Presidential 78 continuance of Proclamation In Punjab tioned, he replied that his mother-tongue bring a Bill for enacting a law there. There .. was Punjabl and the national language was fore, Punjab should be made a Union Terra .. Hindi. Thereafter, when he was asked as to tory for some time till peace is restored there whom did Punjab belong, he replied that it and it should be done within next six months. belonged to the people of Punjab. The Sikh I do not say that Government had promised on hearing this intervened and said that but it definitely wanted to hold elections to Punjab did not belong to the Punjabis alone Panchayats in Punjab. If elections to Pan­ but it belonged to the whole of India. This chayats had been held, we would have known view was expressed by the Sikh. Taking into how far the people are ready for elections. It account all these things there can be no would have worked as a barometer. Why the doubt about the patriotism of the Sikhs. The proposal of holding elections at the Pan· Sikhs in general are not involved in the chayat level was not carried out? Any how it terrorist activities taking place in Punjab. does not matter whether elections have been held or not. But I would like the han. Minister Apart from this if the ordinary farmer, the to clarify in his reply as to what is the Govern­ agricunurallabourer or the common people ment's assessment about holding elections of Punjab were involved In terrorism. the to Legislative Assembly or the Lok Sabha. State could not have made any progress. The production also could not have in­ [English] creased. That is why the average Punjabi should not be considered as having a hand THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE In terrorism in the State. The common people MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC of Punjab are not involved in the terrorist GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN­ activities taking place in the State. ISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBA­ It is a fact that many people are being RAM): Mr. Chairman. Sir. I am grateful to the killed by terrorists In Punjab but it has to be han. Members for the support they have tent accepted as well that the political power to the Resolution seeking extension of Presi­ enjoyed by the terrorrsts does not exist any dent's rule in Punjab for a further period of SIX more. They are not given politIcal protection months. I am happy that the political reality in and the terrorist leads a life of an ordinary Punjab is widely recognised and accepted criminal. He merely commits a crime and by the hon. Members. The pol~ical reality is absconds. He does not enJoy any political that conditions in Punjab do not lend them­ patronage today selves to a SItuatIon where we can hold elections and I will presently tell you 'why'. Still I would like to give one suggestion. If terrorism continues in Punjab, we will have Speaking here Mr. Shahabuddtn, Mr. to do something other than extension of the Kabuli and some other han. Members raised PresIdent's rule there. Some days back. I certain vital questions. These questions had had made a suggestion and I would like the been raised before and we had tried to hon. Home Minister to consider it. Punjab answer them to the best of our ability. Take, should be treated as a Union Territory for for example, the question of Punjab Accord. some years. By doing thIS, the question of There are eleven items of the Accord. Eight holding elections soon will not arise. tf Punjab have been fully implemented. The remaining is removed from the Jist of States and con­ three items are: one relating to transfer of verted into a Union Territory, the question of territory in lieu of Chandigarh; the other extension of Prestdent's rule wilt also not relating to the sharing of river waters and the arise. We have many other Union Territories third about enactment of an afl·lndia Gu­ like Dadra and Nagar Haveli. Andaman and rudwara Act. There is no consensus today Nicobar, Lakshdweep and Minicoy Islands. among the States on enacting an AU India Thars are no legislative assembJies there. Gurudwara Act but we are in constant touch As such. there is no legal constraint on us to with the various States jn this country which Stat. ResolutIOn Re. OCTOBER 12. 1989 P,..ldlMtJa/ eo continuance of Proclamation In Punjab [Sh. P. Chidambaram} surned office. there was a major political breakthrough leading to the Punjab Accord. have a sub$tantlal number of Gurudwaras. Political power was transfaned to the Akali However. 'do not think that that is an issue Party. No one gives cred~ to the Congress which affects the Sikh psyche as Mr. Sha­ Government for that and that is what pains habuddin put it. me. Political power 1n a fair and democratic election was transferred to the Akali Party. In The other two issues are indeed ca­ , 985, only 63 persons were killed in Punjab pable of resoiutlon but I must say wkh a deep and that is certainly not a matter of comfort. sense of regret that we are not capable of Slxty·three persons killed means 63 times resolving them as long as we have on the we had to hang our heads in shame. But only one hand a totally fragmented Akali party 63 persons were killed. Who forfeited that and on the other a totally recalcitrant Gov­ goodwill? Who allowed this Government to ernment in Haryana. It is a classic struggle collapse? Who allowed the fragmentation of between an irresistible force and an immov­ the Akali Party? Who could not control terror­ able block. Neither will see reason. Neither Ism? Who started the policy of appeasement will come forward for a dialogue Neither Will which led to the Golden Temple being taken put forward a solution and the history of the over by the terrorists? That was the Barnala Barnala Government when It was In office In Government. What was the result of that? relation to these two Items was gOing for­ The wages of neglect of 1985 were paid in ward one step and taking two steps back­ 1986 when the number of killings went up to ward. I do not, therefore, think that the failure 520 and 1987 when the number of killings to fuHiI these two ~ems in the Punjab Accord went up to 910. It is not as though you do is the cause of terrorism In Punjab. That is something today and terrorism or terrorist not the cause of terrorism in Punjab. On the violence goes up tomorrow. It IS the kind of contrary, we have said times Without number Government you give, the kind of action you that terrorists have no use for the Punjab take. the kind of measures you take which Accord. The terrorists do not support the will bear result-good or bad-six months Punjab Accord. The terrOrtsts have no faIth later or a year later. Because the graph is on .n the Punjab Accord and the Implementa­ the rise, because the Barnala Government tion of the Punjab Accord IS not gOIng to exhibited a total incapacity to control terror­ make any difference to the kind of mad ism, the Police were demoralised, the Gov­ struggle that IS being waged by a section of ernment was dIvided, the Cabinet was dI­ the terrorists vided, the party was divided the Barnala Government had to be dismissed. 1988 was Again I am asked to give numbers. In the worst year of terrorism. We had to com­ the past, t bave given these numbers and t pletely rebuild the Police in Punjab. We had have no heSItation In doing so. But there is a to put together a civil administration. In 1988, naive belief that there is a cause-and-effect 1.949 people were killed. In the first nine relationship. The problem of Punjab, the months of 1988, from January to Septem­ problem of terrorism, isfar graver, far deeper ber, 1614 people were kIlled. And last year. One must look far deeper for the real rea­ we saw Operation Black Thunder where, by sons. If you WIsh to have the numbers, I Will a very carefully controlled operation, we give you the numbers. There was some were able to rid the Golden Temple of terror­ amount of killings tn 1981, '982 and 1983. ists. This year we have done an equally As I have said many tImes before, even If one precise operation. In fact, we have done two innocent person escapes, rt certainly is no operations. They have not received pubUci1y matter of comfort. We must hang our heads because we d\d not want them to get \00 \n shame as there \s terrorism and peop\e much pub\\c\\'1. But \n terms 01 the \mpact on are \(.\\\90 by tenor\s\ v\o\ence. \0 '\ 984, 359 Pun\ab 1 \ th\n'" these two opeta\\ons 'frou\d '''ftOCOn\ peraons were killed. \n 1995. attar rank just as important as Operation Black our Prime Minister Shri Rajiv Gandhi as- Thunder. The first operation was in the Mend 81 Stat. R_olution Re. ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Presidential 82 continuance of Proclamation In Punjab area. Now the Mand area is more or less tide of terrorists who are trained, armed and clear of terrorists and we have been able to financed across the border, it will not be establish a police presence there. Earlier, possible forthe police alone to end terrorism there was no police presence in the Mand in Punjab. As we have said many times area. By careful operations which tasted for before, we are in continuous touch with the two months, the p6lice have been able to Pakistan Government Only a couple of days estabtish their presence in the Mand area ago, the Interior Secretary was here in an .. and the Mand area does not any longer other connection. And we took the opportu­ provide an almost free sanctuary for terror­ nity of reminding him that the discussions ists. The second operation was the opera­ which took place between our Home Secre­ tion which we launched in Tarn Taran district tary and him in May 1989 deserved to be which saw a major mflux of terrorists. We resumed and further action taken. We are Inducted some special forces and through a taking some steps pursuant to the May 1989 month-long operation, we were able to get discussions. We have given them a list of rid of the major gangs operating In Tarn fugitives from law and they have assured us Taran district. Now, look at the results. Let of some steps that they have taken. But my me once again say that I am not at all happy reading of the situation is that while the even if one innocent man dies. As I said, in Government of Pakistan has perhaps taken the first nine months of 1988, 1614 innocent some steps, the realities on the ground are people were killed. In the corresponding not very different. period of this year, 846 people have been killed. It is almost one half. It is bad. I take no The second problem in Punjab js that comfort In this. Every time I go to Punjab, there is a critical number of hard core people every time I talk to the police In the district, who believe in Khalistan and who are deter­ every time I talk to the families who have mined to keep the slogan of Khalistan alive. been affected, I come back with a deep Take for example, Mr. Jasbir Singh Rode In sense of gnef. There IS no comfort at all. But a recent statement, he said that the Centre's at least today, the President's Rule has legal manoeuvering to separate religion from demonstrated a capacity to deal with the politics and thereby liqUidating Sikhism is an problem. In the whole of 1988, 373 terrorists electIon stunt and he said that instead of were kil!ud. In 1989, so far 581 terrorists separating religion from politics, the Sikhs have been killed. In the first nine months of would do better to separate themselves from 1988, 86 police men were killed. In the first the country. nine months of 1989, 93 police men were killed. Without doubt, the number of terror­ Members are aware of the meeting ists coming to Punjab and the number of organized b1 the All India Sikh Students people who have t,aken to terrorism have Federation, Manjit Singh Group on 20th Increased. But the capacity of the police, the September, 1989. Manjit Singh gave a warn­ determination of the administration, to fight ing against bargaining with the Government terrorism has also increased. Therefore, while by anybody in his individual capacity. He we look at terrorism, let us not look at it, I may advocated release 01 detained "leaders" and say with great respect, In a blinkered fash­ this includes Jinda who is on trial for the ton. It is not as though terrorism rises or murder of Gen. Vaidya, Atinder Pal Singh flourishes or thrives because of this or be­ who is on trial in Delhi in the Delhi case. cause of that. The situation in Punjab is Resolutions were adopted by the Conven­ grave today. I believe, ~ is because of three tion expressing faith in Bhindranwale's dec­ factors. The first is the overt and covert laration that the foundation stone of Khatis­ support that has been extended to terrorists tan was laid on the day the Golden Temple from across the border. Unless we are able was attacked and reiteratedthatAISSF woukl to deal with that problem, which is a complex leave no stone unturned to achieve this goal. problem, which requires fine tuned diplo- maticskills, policy inkiatives and very careful Another resolution was passed express· app·roach, unless we are able 10 s1em the ing sympathy with organizations like NSCN. Slat. Resolution R9. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Presidential 84 continUBnCS of Proclamation In Punjab ISh. P. Chidambara.m] Shri Shahabuddin said that not one Sikh leader of eminence has supported PLA, Kashmir Liberation Front and TNV for Khalistan. Equally, not one Sikh leader of '1heir struggle for independence". eminence in their parties has con,damned terrorism. They take refuge under all kinds of As long as there is a critical number of arguments. Sir, t would appeal to the Akalis people who believe in Khalistan and as long to close ranks. I would appeal to them to as they will kill, loot, burn, maim, kidnap and come together and present their political extort ;n the name of achieving goal of Khat­ idea before the people and that will be day on istan, one has to carryon this fight. The which we can $ely with certainty the time has terrorists should know one thing. Never, come to usher in a democratic Government. never will India yield to Khalistan or to a When we invited them to meet with our Sub· separate State in Punjab. They will never Comminee, the Akali Party would not turn up achieve their goal and the only way we can for the meeting. Hon. members here have find a solution is when they give up this goal. asked us to talk to them. We are willing to talk We shall never give up our fight. to them; But who among ~he Akalis is willing to talk to us? We cannot carry on a dialogue The third reason for terrorism continu­ with the other side of the table unoccupied! ing to thrive in Punjab is the fragmentation of We have to talk to the people. We are willing the Akali Party. It is a cold political fact that to talk. We went to Chandigarh to talk to them the Akali Party, as it was originally, repre­ but they would not come to talk to us. sented a substantial segment of political opinion in Punjab. The Congress represents Han. Shri Kabuli'said that all kinds of another substantial segment of political opin­ reports are published and all kinds of things ion in Punjab. The CPI and the CPIM in that are said abroad. In fact, I am afraid he said order represent segments of political opinion certelin things which I have not heard else­ in Punjab. There is no gainsaying the fact where. I made a note. He said that Hindus that the Akali Party, as it originally stood, and Sikhs do not talk to each other in Punjab. represents a substantial segment of political When did he last go to Punjab? opinion if" Punjab, That party is totally frac­ tured and fragmented. There are so many SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABULI: I did parties that one loses counts of how many not say 'all'. I said that a good number of parties are there. There are so many leaders people were not talking to each other. and they make such quick changes in their allegiance to eath other that it is difficult even SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: I have noted to follow any thread of political leadership down what you said. You said that they were and political opinion. As long as the Akali intending to destroy each other. When did Party remains so fragmented and fractured you last go to Punjab? If there ;s a place and is unwilling to take a resolute position where communal harmony rules the hearts against terrorism, it is very difficult to hold of the people amidst a sea of turbulence, it is elections and usher in a democratic Govern­ the Punjab today. There is total harmony ment. among the Hindus and Sikhs. I can give example after example. When one commu­ PROF. N.G. RANGA (Guntur): We can nity has stood up to defend the other com­ have a coalition Government. munity. What is happening today is there is fear. There is fear in parts of Punjab and SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: There was a therefore there is a certain amount of re­ time when Akalis and Congress were in straint in social intercourse. But that does not coalition. There can be a coalition provided mean that Hindus and Sikhs are not talking they are a unitt:td p.:>litical party and function to each other, that does not mean that Hin­ as a political party, stand up to threats and dus and Sikhs are intent on destroying each stand up to dangers. other. On the contrary, look at the recent 85 Stat. Resolution Re. ASVlNA 20.1911 (SAKA) Presidential 88 continuance of Proclamation in Punjab reports. Aecently major magazines and major Lok Sabha elections in Punjab along with the newspapers have carried reports. The In­ lok Sabha elections in the rest of the coun­ dian Express carried a report ten days ago. try. This assessment is being made on a There is another side to Punjab. There is a continual basis. Punjab which is alive, which is thriving, which is working, which IS producing, which is As far as Assembly elections are con­ dancing and singing. AU this is threatened cerned, our mind IS open. We are keeping and a pall of gloom descends on a village or our options open. It IS more difficult to hold a town when there is a killing. I am not elections to the Assembly than it is to Parlia­ denying it. But there is a Punjab which is ment for reasons which are obvious to hon. thriving and growing. And this has been Members-the number of candidates in· ppssible because of the President's Rule. volved and the arrangements to be made. The Governor in his report Implies that As­ Sir, thiS year we have tried tocontatn the sembly elections may have to follow lok violence as a result of terrorism. I do not Sabha elections. But as I said, Government claim great success We have tried to con­ of India has an open mind on that But,.f as tain It. The number of mnocent people killed we beheve, It IS possible that Lok Sabha In 1989 every month has ranged between 85 elections In Punjab are held along with lok and 106. Last year It was nearly 250 a month Sabha elections In the rest of the country and But thiS IS flot a matter of satisfaction. ThiS the people of Punjab have an opportunity to only shows that despite the Increased threat, speak their VOice, that I behave Will bring despite the increased number of terrorists about a significant and qualitative change in coming In, despite the sophIsticated arms, the political situation in Punjab. Like the the police In Punjab have the capacity to deal elections of 1985 had brought about a quali­ with It Here and there, there are aberrations. tative change, at least for the time being. I But In a SituatIon as In Punjab where the thInk the elections to Lok Sabha In Punjab police and the terrorists are locked In battle Will bnng about a qualitative change. I can continuously day and night, month after and only appeal to all political parties ... year after year, there Will be a few cases where there are aberrations We do not SHRI ABDUL RASHID KABUU' We condone those aberrations, we take action have been talking about JX)llce In Punjab. We try to compensate those who are Victims What about the Victims of 1984? Stili so of these aberrations But It IS the police in many people have not been rehabilitated. Punjab wh'Gh IS standing up to the terrorists, ThiS has been the complaint from them. The laymg down their lives. 93 men have la.d Sikhs have always been complaining that down the I r lives In the f Ir5t nine months of thiS the people who suffered physically, mentalty year In order to protect the unity and Integnty and by all means In 1984 have so far not of India So, let us not condemn the police been rehabilitated and the people who In­ wholesale Wherever tiler e dre aberrations, fllcted atrOCitIes on the SIkhs here have not we will take action In fact, I have Just got a been takan to task. report about the number of police officers against whom action has been taken or Regarding Jammu disturbances, in action IS pending We Will take actIon against 1988. many people were kiIJed. You know six the people wi 10 have crossed the line of the people were killed In Jammu. What action law. But we would have to support the polace was taken by 1he. Government of India? In Punjab which IS standing upto the tarror­ ists. SHAt fl. CHtDAMBARAM: We have answered tf)is many times before. As far as There would be a Significant change in people in PtJnjab are concerned. the Gov· the sitLlation in Punjab after the Parliamen­ ernmerrt of PUN~th during the time of tary eJections. As we see things today. as we Mr. Barna!a and later-have taken steps to assess things today. we believe. we can hold rehabilitate aU those who have been affected 87 Stat. Re. OCTOBER 12. 1989 Of a Bank Ale 88 Maintenance in St. Kitts [Sh. P. Chidambaram] count in ST. KITTS, a Carribean Island, by Shri Ajeya Singh. son of Shri V.P. Singh. It by violence of one kind or another in Punjab. was stated by these newspapers that an It is my appeal to all political parties, to all amount of US $ 21 millions had been depos­ sections of the people to understand the ited in an account maintained in the First gravity of the situation and support the Trust Corporation Ltd., 5t. Kitts. The news­ Government. paper reports alleged that the account was maintained in the name of Shri Ajeya Singh I join hen. Members in expressing my and that Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh was fervent hope that the coming Lok Sabha its beneficiary. On September 11 J 1989 Shri elections in Punjab and elsewhere in the Ajeya Singh, son of Shri Vishwanath Pratap country will bring about a significant and Singh, came to India and issued a press qualitative change in the situation in Punjab release on the 13th September, 1989, deny­ and perhaps as a result of that significant ing that he never had any account in First and qualitative change, it will be possible to Trust Corporation of any other bank in St. usher in a democratic Government in Punjab. Kitts. He also denied having ever visited St. Kitts. Shri Ajeya Singh also stated that he Sir, I seek the support 01 this House to came to India to make himself available to this Resolution. the Government for any enquiries or investi­ gation. MR. CHAIRMAN: The question is: 3. As some aspects of the transaction cou Id "That this House approves the con­ attract provisions of the Foreign Exchange tinuance in force of the proclamation Regulation Act, the Directorate of Enforce­ dated the 11th May, 1987 in respect of ment issued a Directive under Section 33 (2) Punjab, issued under article 356 of the of the FERA, 1973 to Shri Ajeya Singh on Constitution by the President for a 13.9.1989, which was replied to by Shri further period of SIX months with effect AjeyaSinghon 18th September, 1989. Since from the 11th November, 1989. n the information furnished by Shri Ajeya Singh In response to the Directive dated 13th The motion was adopted September, 1989 was incomplete, the Di­ rectorate issued another Directive to Shri Ajeya Singh on 28th September, 1989. The reply to the second Directive has alC)() been 15.48 hr•• received by the Enforcement Directorate on 9th October, 1989. However, the reply re­ STATEMENT BY MINISTER RE: MAIN­ ceived is still not complete and certain de­ TENANCE OF A BANK ACCOUNT IN ST. tails has been promised to be furnished. KlnS 4. In the meanwhile. the Directorate of [English] Enforcement has carried out inquiries re­ garding maintenance of bank account in the THE MJNISTER OF STATE IN THE First Trust Corporation, St. Kitts. Preliminary DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS inquiries suggest that sometime in Septem­ IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHAI ber. 1986, a functionary of the First Trust EDUARDO FALEIRO): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I Corporation, Mr. Mclean. was approached seek tne leave of this House to make a by a person in connection with the Special statement on a matter of public importance. Investment Programme of the Corporation. This person indicated the intention of open­ tt will be recalled that some natIOnal ing a numbered account for depositing a dailies carried on August 22, 1,989 reports substantial amount of money. After the de­ relating to the maintenance of a bank ac- tails had been settled, requisite forms for 89 DiSClJss;on under ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 90 opening the account were taken by this VEOI (Kanpur): Mr. Chairman, Sir, we are person. After two weeks, the same person diSCUSSing a very ;mportdnt issue since returned and presented to the CorporatIOn yesterday. through its Managing Director, Mr. Mclean, completed forms duly signed by Shri Ajeya The most important question is that why Singh as 'account holder' and Shri Vish­ we have passed through a similar situatIon wanath Pratap Singh as 'beneficiary'. Photo­ which prevailed at the time of the partition of stat copies of the passports of Shri Ajeya the country 40-42 years ago. Communal Singh and Shri Vishwanath Pratap Singh disturbances have taken place at many were also handed over to Mr. Mclean. Cn places throughout the country dUring the last September 16, 1986. numbered account few years. Even in places where there used 29479 was opened with a cash deposit of US to be commu nal harmony, disturbances have $ 2 million. In all six deposits totalling US $ 21 taken place. We should first look into the million were made on different dates. The reasons behind it, we heard some of our details are as follows. frtends yesterday and they tried to create communal atmosphere within the House by 16.9.1986 2 million $ s pa~slng unsavoury remarks. Consequently, the han. Minister was forced 10 say yester­ 10.10,1986 2 million $ 5 day that such language and words should not be used. He said that most of it was 13,12, i 986 5 million $ s contrary to facts and wrong, When we speak In such a manner, it seems as if we are 18.1.1987 3 mIllion $ s torgettlhg to live in one united India. I would like to know who wa~ behind the partition of 24.2.1987 5 million $ s India in 19471 It was Muslim League which refused to accept the views of the IndIan 26.3.1987 4 million $ s leaders and got the country dIvided on communal lines. thereby playing Into the It IS ledrnt that under the rules of the Corpo­ hands of British Imperialism. We have gone ration an account (\f this type could have through that trauma but we overcame tnat been opened by an agent of the principal. and therein lies the greatness of Indian Further inquiries are being conducted to Leadership. It should be realised than the verify the information that has come into the great leaders like Mahatma Gandhi and Pt. possession of the Directorate. Jawaharlal Nehru did not echo the commu­ nal slogans. But today these slogans are raised in an irresponsible manner resulting In mass kIllings and nots. One could under­ 15.50 hrs. stand what happened in 1947 but today these things are really very painful. I would DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 like to know when did the Indian leaders support communalism, When the support­ Communal situation in the country­ ers of partition of the country rejected the Contd. appeal of the nationalleade(s like Mahatma Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru and the coun­ (English] try was partttioned, India decided a course tor itself. The Constitution of our country was MR. CHAIRMAN: We will now resume formulated keeping in view the aspirations of discussion the communaJ situation in the the people. lhe cungrt:lss leadership at that country. Mr. N.C. Chaturvedi. time tried to keep the country secular as it is doing today. Why? It was done because the I Translation] Congress never believed in regionalism, communalism or castPJsm. It was never SHRI NARESH CHANDRA CHATUR· cowed down by any divisive force and reas- 91 Discussion under OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rule 193 92 (Sh. Naresh Chandra Ohaturvedi] is being performed in Ramjanam Bhoomi and the issue of Babri Masjid has also been serted their determination when the Consti .. raked up. What is the dispute about? Temple tution was formulated. With the outline of the is the abode of God and mosque is the abode Constitution, the identity of our coun1ry also of Allah. Mahatma Gandhi has preached became dear. All the citizens of India whether us:- they were Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs or Parsis shall enjoy equal rights and live like brothers. "Ishwar Allah Tere Nam, Sabko Sam­ This was resolvod by the congress leader­ mati De Bahgwan". ship at that time. I heard Shn Ebrahim Su­ laiman yesterday. He said that India was not Gandhiji has taught us all this. We do the property of Shri Advani and Vajpayeeji not believe that some people are important and therefore they need not worry. I agree in the country while other are not. We have with him that India is not the property of BJP, never accepted such things. Jan Sangh or Vishwa Hindu Parishad but at the same time, I would like to say that India Somebody said yesterday that han. is also not the property of Shri Oweisi Sahib, Home Minister Sardar Buta Singh had bowed Sait Sahib and Banatwalla Sahib. This coun­ down to Vishwa Hindu Parish ad. I am sur­ try belongs to nationalists like Mahatma prised at these remarks. I want to congratu­ Gandhi, Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru. This country lafe Sardar Buta Singh for his categorical bows before their nationalism and does not stand on the issue. He has followed the accept anything else. Pt. Jawahartal Nehru traditions of the Congress and of the Gov­ had created a new atmosphere in the coun~ ernment. I congratulate him for having made try about Kashmir and had given a new efforts to prevent a confrontation in Uttar direction to It but what is happening there Pradesh. To say that he has surrendered, is today. It states, where communalism had not a fact. It is absolutely incorrect and it can died giving place to nationalism, attempts never be accepted. are made to raise communal bogey. This needs to be seriously thought over as to why Some slogans were also raised yester­ is it done. day. I came to know that some Hindu fanat­ ics were indulging in shouting slogans such 16.00 hrs. as "Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan, Muslim, Allah, Pakistan". Some others were shouting that I would like to know from my colleagues there is no place for a non-Hindu in India. how long will they continue to indulge in This is not keeping with the spirit of the these things for small and petty matters. If constitution. Who is going to pay any heed to India does not stand un~ed, if every citizen of what such fanatics say. But I have also heard India is not given the right of equality, how Mustim fanatics shouting slogans like "Hin­ will India stand out among the front line dustan mein rahna hoga, to Allah, Akbar nations of the world and how will she main­ Kahna hoga". It means that if one intends to tatn her identity. India occupies a respect­ stay in Indid one has to follow the Muslim able place in the world because of the prog­ faith. These slogans are meant to incite ress and development that it has achieved. people. What can be more provocative? India is the greatest democracy of the world Such slogans may be raised either by a and we are running it smoothly and effi· Hindu fanatic or by his Muslim counterpart. clently. but it has to be realised that fanaticesm has no place in this country. This country be· But today. people are raiSIng slogans 10 longs to Mahatma Gandhi, Pandit Jawahar­ the name of Ramjanam Bhoomi, Sabri Masjid, lat Nehru, Maulana Azad, Rafi Ahmed Kid­ Urdu language and reservations for certain wai, Sardar Patel and Govind Ballabh Pant. categories. I fail to understand the logic This land does not belong to the terrorists of behind it. Foundation stone laying ceremony Punjab but to Sardar Ajit Singh and Shagat 93 Discussion undsr ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 94 Singh. Which Punjab is being referred to? but there are many other writers such as The identity of Punjab is not established by Raghubar Dayal, Sudarshan etc. who did 100 or 150 insane terrorists but it is estab­ not subscribe to the Hindj·Urdu di&pute. In lishod by the people like S. AJit Singh, S. this connection, I would like to quoie a few Bhagat Singh, Lala Lajpat Rai and Dr. Iln9S of a poet in which a proper attitude Kichloo. Such traditions have been the part towards the Hindi-Urdu question IS reflected. and parcel of this country. I want to empha­ Shrt Gaya Prasad Snehi who was a poet sise that the people who raise such slogans associated with the freedom struggle has In should be put behind the bars. I would like to his poems widely dwelt on the various as­ demand that the Government should not be pects of this struggle which continued from lentent at all in such matters. 1913 t," the achievement of independence. When asked that in spite of beIng a Hindi In certain States Urdu has been con­ poet why did he give an Urdu flavour to his ferred the status of a second language poetry, he replied and I quote'-- Much uproar was created on th,s Issue and It resulted in a riot breakIng out in Badaun "Apne watan ko dekhun, ya sarkar ki and disputes arising else-where But the 8Rbroo dekhun. educated people are awarQ that thQre is httle Hind ko dekhun ya, ye difference between Hmdi and Urdu. It IS a musalmaan-Hmdu dekhun common knowledgE:' and our Muslim broth­ Teh ko samjhenge sukhnaphaham ers are also of the opinion that Urdu IS not the zaban ho koye9 language of the Muslims. I am a student of Kam aapna karoon, ya Hmdl aUf Urdu lingUistics and In this capacity I would like to dekhun". submrt that the present day Hindi language IS also a language of the Muslims. The This spint of nationalism reflects the traditIon development of present day Hindi prose of our country How does communalism raise started In Telangana and the people should its head in such circumstances? If a Muslim know thiS fact The Khari-Bolt prose was first likes to express himself in Hindi and if a developed by the Muslrms which Isknown as Hindu also likes Urdu equally, the spirit of Dakshml Hindi' by the people of Tetangana natIonalism developes If In a conference of The story 'Rani Katakt kl Kahanl' wntten by the Muslims, Urdu language ,s upheld and If Insha Allah Khan whIch was the fIrst work In such Views, as the eXistence of the Muslims the development of present day Hindi was In this country depends on 1he emphasis wrrtten 1:1 Khan Boll He t;ald placed on Urdu are expressed, It automatl­ calty generates communal feelings I think . Hmd" phut our kl51 boll kl na phuf'. that if we do not take the SCript Into account white comparing the two languages I think Therefore, thiS kind of oplnton that Hind. that the-re is not much difference between belongs to the Hindus and Urdu belongs to Hindi and Urdu at least so far as grammar of the Muslims IS not proper. You think as to the two languages IS concerned. The great what would be the standard of Hindi litera­ poet Neeraj has said the following lines:- ture if only the works of Surdas and Tulsldas are there and the works of Kablr and Rahim "Kya karega pyar yah imaan 59, are excluded. The richness of Hindi litera­ Kya karega pyar vah bhagwan S9, ture would suffer if the poetry of Aaskhan, Janam lekar god main insaan kIt Rasleen, Jayasl, Kutban, Manzhan, Shekh Kar na paya pyar jo insaan S8." Alam etc is not included in Hindi Literature

The same would be the case if writer like Similarly I Jigar an urdu poet, has also said Jagannath Azad are also excluded. . (Inter­ the following lines:- ruptions)

Writers like Pram Chand, Firaq Gora .. "Jabss kho gaya hai dil apna. khpuri beJong of course, to the modem age Cheez rakhte heine bhoof jete hein" 95 Discussion under OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rule 193 96 [Sh. Narash Chandra Chaturvedi] "Vaise kahne ko to mudda kuchh bhi nahin, ek akhara kayam hai. I do not think that these two languages are gar isse phalak ka fundamentaly different from eath other. In dil bahle, to hum log view of all these things, I cannot understand tamasha kyon na karen." as to why the Hindi-Urdu dispute should arise? Lord Rama is the symbol of the cul­ Steps shoukJ be taken to ensure that the ture and literature of this country. The cul­ country does not become a battleground of tural traditions of th,s country are the same communal politics. Whatever is responsible irrespective of the religions we may belong for destroying the unity of this country should to. During the Oussehra festival the proces­ be checked. The country should be saved sion of Lord Rama passes through the Muslim from such divisive forces. There should be domin'lted areas and our Muslim brothers strictness on the part of the Government for participate in the celebrations and they also maintaining the law and order and those who pay thei~ homage to Lord Rama. When the take out processions in the name of procession of Saba Sahib is taken out, the Aamjanam Shoomi shoutd be arrested. If Hindus also welcome it. The tradition of the Muslims also resort to provocations of Muslim-Hindu amity that exists in Kanpur is this nature, they should be treated in the the legacy of the great Martyr Shri Ganesh same manner. This issue does not relate to Shankar Vidyarthi who laid down his live for the Hindus or the Muslims. Our leader has Hindu-Muslim unity. Communalism had categorically stated that the Sabri Masjid­ come to an end In Kanpur with the mar­ Ramjanam Shoorn; dispute will be decided tyrdam of Shri Ganesh Shankar Vidyarthi. b~' the Court. You are of the opinion that the Thereafter there has been no majer instance Court will not take any dGcision in this matter. of communal flare up in this city. Some I would like tl) inform you that the court had isolated incidents may have taken place in given its verdict in the Shahbano case also 1946-47 but that is a different matter. The but i! was turned into a communal issue. All areas where communal tension has been these things hs.veto betaken intoconsidera­ unheard of so tar, this kind of tension has tion. If these things are not considered, the developed under the changed circum­ unity. integrity and the development of this stances. Disputes were L'nknown in the nation will be threatened. If the Government Bundelkhand and 8r aJ region till recently. I does not make eff

• Translation of the speech originaHv delivered. 97 Discussion undsr ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 98

The great leader of OUf movement and parties instead of taking steps in the overall of the glorious dravidian tradition, the la1e interest of the nation are vying with each Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, Perarignar other in expJoiting the situation for political (the Enlightened) Annadurai once boasted capital. It is a matter of great shame that that he was a muslim who does not wear certain political leaders wish to fish in the lungi and a christian who does not wear a troubled waters instead of working ior com­ cross around his neck. I feel proud in partici­ munal amity. Parties like BJP are today pating in this discussion as a humble fol­ using the comm unal conflicts as their dice in lower of that great leader Anna and his late t~Air political game of capturing power. Par~ lamented disciple. Dr. M.G.R.lndia is such a ties which publicly declare that they are for vast country that it is fittingly termed as a secularism are willing to join hands with sub-continent. The people of India profess com~una' parties simply to overthrow the diverse religions. There are diverse ethnic Congress Organisation and to unleash their groups, speaking different ianguages and vengeance on Mr. Gandhi for their selfish followirig varied customs and traditions. We political ends. Today we have to shoulder differ in food habits and we also differ in our the grave responsibility of meeting the chal­ clcthing styles. We worship different God lenges posed by communal elements deter­ and Goddesses. Despite these diversities, mined to disintegrate India on grounds of the silver line of unity and secularism runs caste, community, religion and language. allthrough our national fabric. We live as We must be prepared to sacrifice anything Indians assuring equality to one and all in our and everything for the sake of communal bid to peaceful soqial co-existence. The most harmony. We must move undaunted towards striking trait of our Indian society is that we ensuring communal amity, sqcial fraternity strive to achieve unity in diversity. When in and religious tolerance. That would be the 1949 India was partitioned, the history of greatest service we would be rendering to India was soaked in blood of thousands of this soil. I am reminded of the words of Dr. innocent people. All Indians would gratefully Radha Krishnan the late President of our reminisce the Pad Yatraof Mahatma Gandhi country who said that it was not enough that undertaken in those days of communal strife. we would clean the country of slyms but we The blood stained history of the days of must try to first cleanse our hearts and purge partition is still paining the hearts of many of our souls. The genesis of all communal us. conflicts are the hearts black with dirty ideas and selfish motives for parochial ends. As great leaders like Mahatma Gandhi C'md Jawahar Lal Nehru worked tor classless The great sacrifices made by Father and casteless society in India, E. V. Periyar and Perarignar Anna forthe cause of Ramaswamy N aickar and Perarignar Anna establishing a just order in Tamil Nadu have Durai worked in the South for eradicating elevated the State above communal, relig­ social inqualities and for establishing an ious and sectoral differences. There were no egalitarian society. But the communal 1lare­ communal conflicts. class wars or religious ups which have become the order of the day intightings. However the recent riots in my have in them the ominous portents of disin­ Parliamentary Constituency last month have tegrating and destablisi~g our territorial and defaced and defiled that glOriOUS tradition of social integrity. The members who spoke Tamil Nadu. The national poet Bhara1i sang yesterday clearly spelt out the dangers posed that there were no castes and it was sin to by communal conflicts and class wars. speak high or low on the basis of castes. Whether it is the Babri Masjid-Ram Janam These poetic lines were rins(:td in blood during Bhumi issue or any other such issue, it has the communal riots in Bodinayakanur. 29 to be handled with great care so that it does persons were killed. Hundreds were gravely not assume the proportions 01 a communal injured. Thousands lost their shetter and confHct. My heart is laden with pain and property. Thousands took shetter in the near­ anguish when it is learnt that some political by jungles. That was the seriousness of the 99 Di$cuss;on under OCTOBER 12, 1989 100 [Sh. P. Selvendran] bar when the town was under the grip of communal tension. Police did not try to stop s~uation. Displaced people are still to return the poster war and did not try to book the to their hearths and homes. What was the miscreants. The police were negligent in not reason for the communal riot? Was there knowing where the posters were printed any communal hatered among the different even. No attempt was made to arrest the communities before the nots? No. People culprits who indulged in the postar war lead­ lived in perfect communal harmony. ing to the communal carnage. Police was a1so negligent in not arresting the persons Were there condlt.ons for sparking a who indulged in stone throwing of buses. -:;ommunal riot prevailed before It broke out? Why the police was silent for five full days is Was that area prone to communal conflicts? a question which has to be answered by the Perfectly not. A comparatively peaceful area Government. The responsibility for garmi­ became the battle ground of a communal nating the communal conflict squarely rests conflict because of the provocations of cer­ on the Government of Tamil Nadu and for tain vested interests. Had the Government the abyssmal failure of the police to avert the of Tamil Nadu determined to avert the c~m­ communal killings. Nero fiddled when Rome munal disaster, It could have been aVOided. was burning. The Government of Tamil Nadu Had the Police of Tamil Nadu acted sWiftly was sitting idle when communal tension was and taken specIfic precautionary measures, brewing in Bodi. The reason was simple. The the communal flare up could havl3 been ruling DMK wanted to wreck the tour pro­ averted. Neither the Government of Tamil gramme of our leader reVOlutionary Jayalal­ Nadu nor the police under it took any action itha, the General Secretary of our AIADMK to avert the communal carnage On 10th Party of the constitue:1cy on 27. September, 1989 persons belonging to a community hold a meetlf'lg In the Bodl Legis­ W,th a view to marring the tour pro­ lative Assembly Constituency. A leader of gramme of our General Secretary, the ruling the community speaks In such a fashion that Government allowed the communal tension It hurts the, sentiments of another commu- to assume the proportion of a communal nlty. On 1Dth night. he speaks. On 11 th and carnage. That was a planned attempt for 12th tapes contalntng his speeches are political reasons. No established procedure played in the streets. The other community was followed by the pollee before resorting get _ enraged, agitated and explode Into to firing. FIrst they should have orally warned anger On 13th, a poster war ensures be­ the crowd to disperse, then should have lath: tween both the communities Buses and charged the crowd, then again fired tear gas other moving vehicles served as the carners shells, thereafter fired in the air and finally of their mutudl anger. TenSion mounts and resorted to firing that too below the knees. buses are 5toned Physical clashes also Police fired at Devaram, Thenl and Kan­ ensue. The huts In Domblcherry are set on damanur No where In these places the fire. On 15th morning, five people die In established procedure for police firing was police firing In Devaram. What I want to bring followed. They resorted to firing in the first to the kind notice of the Hon. Minister IS that Instance and shot down people like crows the speech made on 10th sowed the seeds and cranes. That was orgy of violence of a comm unal conflict. On 11 th and 12th the commItted by the Tamil Nadu Police. The toll speech continued to create communal ten­ was 29. The Chief Minister, of Tamil Nadu sion among the people. A poster war took did not visit the site of communal carnage. place on 13th. Buses were stoned Physical But the Hen. Minister of State for Home encounters took place and in Domblcherry AffaIrs vtsited the site. His visit emboldened huts were buses the sunken people. It comforted the people. It brought solace to the people torn by the My primary questton 's what the police communal riot. They hoped that the Hon'ble was dOing for five days since 10th Septem- Unton Minister for State had visited the site 101 Discussion under ASVINA 20. 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 102 for the purpose of dispatching central police take adion against them. But he did not take forces to the araa as they had lost hopes in any action against his party hooligans who the State Police. I also accompanied the instigated the communal violence. This is Minister. very well known to the Hon'bla Minister here.

[English] MR. CHAIRMAN: In spite of my warn­ ing, you are going into all tne details of your MR. CHAIRMAN: Please wind up. (By State. I will not allow. ringing the Bell). SHRI P. SELVENDRAN: J am not going SHRI P. SELVENDRAN: Sir, it is a very into the details. They are all very important important subjed. I am the only Member to points. participate in the discussion on behalf of our party. I would like to make certaIn suggestions for curbing communal riots in the country. MR. CHAIRMAN: Don't go Into the We all oppose communal riots in any part of details of your State problems here. the country. Communal conflicts are not created out of differences in caste or com­ SHAI P. SElVENDRAN: It is not a munity but by political parties for their parti­ State problem. It is a communal problem. san ends. The last month riot in Tamil Nadu The State Government itself stated that it IS was a pre-planned violence instigated by the a communal problem. ruling DMK party. The DMK Government ebetted in the communal violence, the Tamil MR. CHAIRMAN: With respect to this Nadu Police actively colluded with the par~ communal problem, it IS not JJroper to go into petrators of the violence and the ruling party the details of every State problem. If you do elements. The ruling DMK Government so, then all State subjects will be discussed. therefore deserves dismissal. It should be You can refer to it. But don't go into all the dismissed forthWith. details ... Yes, go on please. The allotted time to you is over. I also appeal to the Government to generously disburse funds from the Prime SHAI P. SELVENDAAN: The incidents Minister's Relief Fund for rehabilitating the should be mentioned. I will take only one victims of the Tamil Nadu communal car­ minute please. nage. I urge upon the Minister to take all necessary steps to ensure communal amity So Sir, that was how the State Govern­ in Tamil Nadu as well as in other parts of the ment was solely responsible for instigating country. the violence. That IS our charge. The Bharat bandh was declared by Oppo~ition Parties. MR. CHAIRMAN: Please wind up. Shri The Congress and AJADMK workers who Zainul Basher to speak now. desisted from participating in the Bandh kept open their shops. Those shops were picked SHRI P. SELVENDAAN: I Will make up for attack and ravage during the commu­ only one point. nal riot. This amply proves that the commu­ nal riot was instigating by the Ruling Party for MR. CHAIRMAN: Don't record any­ political reasons. The people complained to thing of Shri Selvedran's speech. Shri Zainul the Chief Minister that his party elements are Basher to speak now. instigating the communal violence. The Chief Minister assured the people that he would SHRIP.SELVENDRAN: ••

··Not recorded. OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rule '93 104 ~03 Discussion under ( Translation) , We do not want 10 go into the hows and whys of the creation of Pakistan. SHRIZAINUL BASHER (Ghazipur): Mr. The question .~ why did a large number Chairman. Sfr, many instance~ ot bloodshed in the name of religion can be traced in the of Indian Muslims stay back in India. They history of Europe and Central Asia but the rJid so because they felt that it was Indian same does not hold true of the Indian sub­ National Congress which gave the country continent pnor to the present century. its Independence. And this Party had made a historical promise, a historical commitment Our country has been bestowed with that Indian Muslims would be treated at par geographical unity but rt has never bean a with other citizens of the country. It had single political entity. There has always been promised that their religion, their community, more than one political party ruling over the their culture and their life and property would country. It was only under the British regime be fully protected. Such a historical commit­ that India was a single integrated entity. ment dissuaded the Indian Muslims from going to Pakistan whereas a large number of Before that there were different ruler s Hindus living in Pakistan migrated to India. In different parts of the country. The rulers This was the commitment of the Congress were Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs but they which was fulfilled through Constitutional never fought among themselves in the name provisions. In our Constitution, Muslims have of religion. The kingdom of Vijayanagar is a been treatod at par with other citizens while shining example of communal harmony In :n religious and cultural matters they have the history even though the country was been given more rights than others. This was under Muslim rule. But Vijayanagar never why Indian Muslims made India their home­ witnessed communal disturbances within or land and stayed back. Instead of the Indian outside its boundari~s. even though there National Congress, had the Hindu Mahas­ were numerous battles between the Muslim abha and the B.J.P. been dominant at that rulers and the kingdom of V'Jayanagar His­ time, Indian Muslims would have preferred tory bears testimony to the Maratha rule. to die rather than stay back. They would There Wd.S a time when the MClrathas were have gone to Pakistan. But why did they teared throughout the country and even In deCIde to stay back? It was Just because of Delhi yet there were no communal olstur­ the Indian National Congress. The promises bances. The kingdom of Maharaja Raniit made tn the Indian Muslims by the Indian Singh extended from Afghanis~an to the Delhi National Congress have been fulfilled. But border but there were no com munal prob­ what is happening in the country today? lams during his reign either. When did these Some forces are spreading communalism. communnl riots start first? It WR$ during the and creating trouble in the name of religion. freedom struggle that communal tensions Th~y are doing it to gain political mileage. gained momentum when the Hindu and They want to destroy the Indian National Muslim communal forces made their grip Congress. firm and took these Issues to streets. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I want to make one thing clear. Their goal has less to do with Muslims The worst day In the history of IndIa has than with the Muslim community been 15th August, 1947 when the nation using as a tool to destroy the Indian National Congress was divided in the name of religion and and in the process destroy nationalism and Pakistan came into existance. At that the time North India witnessed widespread secularism in this country. But the (eason communal riots and the fire of communalism why they have been unsuccessful is that a was ranglnCJ across the country. Mus.lim majority of Hindus are secular in their out­ league was basIcally a party formed on look. I want to give two examples from Uttar communal lines. A separate State was cre­ Pradesh . Two years ago the Vishwa Hindu ated on the pretext of 151am beirl!} in danger. Parishad had taken out Rath Yatras over the Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid issue. Aath 105 Discussion U~afJr ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 106 Vatra processions were being sent to not live to see that day. The fools who are de­ Ayodhya from different places creating wide­ manding Khalistan fail to understand the spread communal tension in Uttar Pradesh. ptight of Pakistan. Can Khalistan survive as This led to riots in Meerut. At that time religious State. Nothing can be gained in this communal forces threatened a bloodbath in sub-continent in the name of religion. So why Uttar Pradesh if a ban was imposed on Rath are such unreasonable demands being Yatras. This threat was for U.P. Government made? The B.J.P., the Vishwa Hindu Par­ and the Congress (I). But the U.P. Govern· ishad and other communal parties know ment put its foot down and imposed a ban on very well that there is no way they can Rath Yatra processions. Not a single person destroy the Indian National Congress, ex­ was killed in U.P. after that, making it very cept by injecting the poison of communal clear that, the people of U.P. will not tolerate hatred among the masses. Han. Prof. Soz communalism and bloodshed as a result said yesterday that they are doing all this just thereof. The second incident happened for 50 seats. What will they do to win a 100 recently. The U.P. Government declared seats, 200 seats or to come to power? They Urdu as the second official language. The can go to any extent. There is no need to be B.J.P., the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and their afraid of them. The people of this country will student wings announced that there would never support or like them. Today the Janata be riots in Uttar Pradesh if Urdu was de· Dal is interested in joining hands with the clared the second official language. Efforts BJP but at the same time it is also hesitating were made to spark off riots but except in doing so. If it is taking one step forward it 8adaun, riots did not take place anywhere. is also moving one step backward. Today This is because the people of Uttar Pradesh none of the political parties has the courage are still secular In their outlook and do not to contest elections underthe cloak of funda­ favour communalism. At least this proves mentalism. How many seats did the BJP win that these communal elements, betheyfrom earlier under the banner of Jan Sangh? It the B.J.P. or the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, are could neverget more than 15·20 seats. They paper tigers. The people of this country will may enter the election fray once again. In the be very happy to see the Government taking 1984 elections when they had contested as actIOn against these elements, because, India a separate party, two of their candidates IS basically a secular country whose citizens could win elections and in the present elec­ want to live In harmony. Mr. Chairman Sir, tions, that number may be 5,7.4,3, or even experience shows that no country in this nil. Our country believes in secularism but sub-continent has survived In the name of we should not be content with the mere religion. Pakistan was created inthe name of thought of it and should fight against these religion, yet what became of that country? forces. Not only are the Muslims expecting Bangladesh was created. Never before had the security of themselves, their religions Indian sub-conti nent witnessed such a blood· places, life, property and language from the shed as during the creation of Bangladesh. Indian National Congress. but the entire It is difficult to say how long Pakistan will secular India had expectations from you. survive in the name of religion? Everyone is The biggest question is also that of your aware of what is happening in Karachi and at survival. The Indian National Congress can other places. No country in the Indian sub­ never become a communal party in our continent can hope to exist in the name of country. tt is the same Congress whose religion. Not even India. It cannot exist only Akshaya Brahmachariji, whose name was as a Hindu nation. In the Indian sub·conti­ mentioned earlier also, went on hunger strike nent a nation can be run only on secular when a statue was installed in the mosque of lines. I am sure aday will come, although not Ayodhaya. At that time Akshaya Brahma­ in my lifetime. when people of India. Nepal. chari was the General Secretary of the F aiza­ Bangladesh and Pakistan will live as one bad District Congress Committee. Today the nation. There is no doubt that my dream will vetern and brave freedom fighter, Shri be realised one day, even though W9 may Kamiapati Tripathi has decfared that Babri 107 Discussion under OCTOBER 12. 1989 Rule 193 108

(Sh. Zainul Basher] case is subjudice and from the Muslim opin­ ion, we can understand that they have de­ Masiid can ba demolished only at the cost 01 cided to accept the decision of the court. I do his me. The Congress members are n01 not say anything about the Hindu Parishad weak, nor can they be suppressed. But we as it does not represent the Hindus. I can say want to tell the Government that it should n01 with certainty that 95 per cent of Hindus will be cowed down by these communal iorces. respect he verdict of the Supreme Court, the Not even a single person'::; blood has been High Court and other courts. Let the court spilled nor has the police fIred at even one decide this issue. Meanwhile. Government place. whenever action has been taken \I\. ill have to guard against comm unal riots for against them. The people of our country its own benefit as well as forthe benefit of the cannot become so blind or fanatic in the whole country. name of religion. With these words I conclude. Today. the population of India is 80 cror9S and we have thousands of towns and lakhs [English] of VIllages In the country. At least. at 25-26 places communal riots take place qUite of­ SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN (Kishan­ ten. In such a vast country, communal riots ganj): Mr. Chairman, there is nothing newto do not take place a1 more than 25-30 places. be said about the communal riots. We have What more proof IS required of secularism In no tears left to shed. Our eyes have run dry the country? T~re are only 20 per cent but our hearts ble9d. One debate follows Muslims and 80 per cent Hindus in my con­ another. It becomes a rite that we perform stituency and 1rom such a place, a person over the dead. It becomes like a funeral like me has been elected. ThiS IS the great­ oration. It follows a customary pattern. We ness of our secularism, and the t,ontribution hang our heads In shame and then it goes of the Congress Party. Mr. Chairman. Sir. I on-this march of tragedy, this march of would request the Government to be vigilant shame ... thls procession of death. Today it is as a lot of gimmicks are gOing to be played not the death of a few persons that we are and a number of conspiracies are gOIng to be here to lament. I thInk, we must cry the hatched before elections There may be a beloved country. It is the system whose ptot to engineer communal nots at various survival IS at stake. We ask ourselves for places on the election day With two obJec­ whom the bell tolls. It tolls not for a few tives. On the one hand. they think that the indiVIduals. It tolls for our country, that is, Muslims will be displeased With the Con­ India. that is Bharat. that IS Hindustan. It tolls gress as they could not get protection and on for India as a civil society. It tolls for India as the other, the Hindus WIll support them and a nation of our dreams. This is not an alarm­ harm the Congress. Therefore. they will try Ist VIew, Mr. Chairman. It IS an objective to engIneer communal riots at dIfferent assessment. When hearts break. Countries places, especlaily, at places where these do not survive and who will live if India dies? have never taken place. At some place they will place a pig In the mosque and at another We had a few more additions to this they will throw cow In the temple or some litany of shame-Leh, Makrana, Kota, other thIngs else. Stones will be pelted on Badayun, Sasram. All thesa had no history processIons and some other mischief will be of communal riots. Now around 100 villages played at other places. efforts to engineer and towns across the country are burning. communal nots on a large scale Will be made We seem to be sitting on top of the volcano. on the Qve of elections. The han. Home Nobody knows which new names shall Minister will have to deal With the whole appear In print tomorrow, nis an explosive situation strictly Without making any conces­ situation. A communal colonisation, which sions in it. has been deliberately murtured over the last ten years. has reached an unprecedented The Babri Masjtd-Ram Janam Bhoomi lave I. Communalism is no longer the petty 109 Discussion under ASVINA 20.1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 110 communalism of yesterday. 11 is an organ­ a Deputy Police Commissioner in Bombay ised chauvinism of today which will land us who ordered firing on a Muslim procession one day into the dark night of fascism. We and made a statement to th, press. His have been storing explosives in the base­ name is Shingare. He said, 141 have given ment of our mansion for months for years them a beating that they will never forget and and just a match-stick IS sufficient to ignite it. they dare not come out into the streets forthe Just a sneeze, a nod, a gesture, a hint, a next SIX months." Is it an ASS sanchalak or word and mayhem begins, the pogrom a Deputy Commissioner of Police of the commences. It IS Increasingly assuming a Indian Police Service speaking? I would like genocidial dimension. It is not the lumpen to know from the han. Minister. Sir, two years elements alone which participate. Now the ago in Meerut, not one but hundred of young elite participate; sons of ministers partici­ men were taken to police station and were pate. It is no longer just the f}oondas, it is the beaten up black and blue and were told to bhadralok. It is not Just the law-breakers. i1 is call their Allah and Mohammad to save them the enforcers of the law and order. And the and at a lesser level Shahabuddin and conspirators go on conspiring. They make Bukharjl This is the pattern. This was why plans. They make preparations and our Nation Integration Council decided years Government gets no hint. The intelligence ago to have a composite force but nothing machinery falls. Then the administratIon falls. has been done. No new policy required and The.n the police acts and sometimes acts no new thinking IS reqIJired. All that is re­ wrongly not agaInst the aggressor but agaInst qUired IS the Ministry of Home Affairs should the aggressed. It IS a matter of shame that In dig up their old files and just review for the recent nots In Madhya Pradesh, the themselves as to what the national consen­ police tortured the Muslim youth and said, sus was, what national policies were de­ "Unless you say 'Ram', you will not be for­ cided and to what extend they have been gIven." S,r, It IS matter of shame that In Implemented. Rajasthan. The Prime Minister has been warning [ Translation] us agaInst the upsurge of the Hindu Rashfla. And It IS true. He is doing a great national SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI (Mandsaur): service. If Hindu Rashtra comes, then Sikh Mr. C~ ,aIrman Sir, my submissIon IS that this Rashtra will ;,ot be far behind. Christian IS wrong. Someone has gIven you wrong Rashtra will not be far behind, Muslim Rash­ informatIon. No such thIng has ever taken tra will not be tar behind and the country will place In Madhya Pradesh. break. The country Will not survive and that is why we have to jOin our heads, hearts and SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (Ponnant): hands together and fight against this vicious This inCident has taken place In Khargon concept of Hindu Rashtra. Sir, unfortunately, (Interruptions). We have tolerated such the Pnme Minister says one thing and his things (Interruptions). The Government Government seems to give a free run of the should make an enquiry and take appropri­ place to the Rashtrawadis. They seem to run ate action. the country at their will, in total freedom. After all, we are a land of democracy and freedom. SHRI BALKAVI BAIRAGI: No police­ Aren't we? They seem to run the place. I man has even said such a thing. have repeatedly brought to the notice of the Home Minister the conspiracies and activj· SHRJ G.M. BANATWALLA: Do not ties of organisations like ASS, VHP and Ignore it, hold an enqUiry. Do not dismiss this Bajrang Oal. They are trying to break the matter so causally. country, they are trying to harm our national interest. But nothing has been done. So [English] many senas have sprouted across the coun .. try. They whip up passion; they whip up SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: There is frenzy. The ASS Hedgewar centenary had 111 Discussion und9r OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rule 193 112 (Sh. Syed Shahabuddin] to be brought under control. if these evil organisations are to be eliminated from he sent across the land crores of units Of fake public life of the country, the postal stationery. Only after, it was aU over, Government haveto bemoresincereand , got a fetter from the Mimster of Communi­ effective. Only then they can control such cations that the Government had noticed it organisations like RSS, Bajrang Dal and and they will do something about it. Yes, it VHP. But I take my hats otf to the Chief was after it was all over. Why was the Gov­ Minister of Bihar, Home Minister of Rajast­ ernment such a silent spectator? Is the han and the Chief Minister "f Gujarat who Government so Incompetent? The Sadhu have named these organisations. Sansad was organised in Kumbmela from where all this heat was generated. I am 17.00 hrs. ashamed to tell this in this House that this Sansad which passed anti-national resolu­ [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chai~ tions against the very concept of our nation­ hood. againstthe very concept of India as we But they pleaded inability to do any­ know it, has the full cooperation and support thing, because there is no Central directive. of the Government authorities. I asked this I plead with the Government to issue a question but my question was refused. I directive that these organisations must be asked as to who gave them the land and why handled suitably. these people would not be booked. But noth­ ing has been done. I was told let this be over SHRI P. CHIDAMBARAM: Who said and they shall deal with them, now, of course, that there was no Central directive? millions of people are there and something can happen if they use a bigger step. But it .. SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: Shri was all over eight months bacl.( And nothing Ashok Gelhot. has been done. They are marching across the land; they are marching to Delhi. The SHRIP.CHIDAMBARAM: Please show Government has been acting, In one word, me the quotation where he has said that. like the classIc monkeys of Mahatma Gandhi. The Government does not see, the Govern­ SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN: I would ment does not hear and the Government send you the quotation. Why are you wor­ does not apeak. I do not know what they are ried? I stand by what I have said. here for. They do not take action against inflammatory slogans, provocative speeches, Sir, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad is run­ abusive slogans and derrogatory wail-writ­ ning a campaign throughout the country to ings and viCIOUS pamphlets, hate literature arouse the religious sentiments of the people circulated round the country. They do noth­ on the question of Ram Janambhoomi. and Ing. And thiS concept of federalism comes their game is political. It IS not a dharmik very handy to them. Whenever you ask a sammelan, it is not a procession of piety, it is question, they say But we are a federal a political game that you must understand. country. It is all a State matter. We, the They want to benefl~ a particular political Central Government have no responsibility. party. It is an election activity and the Gov­ We do not even mOnitor It, we do n01 even ernment seems to be silent on this question. keep statIstics work ot maintain 1Igures.' Sir, They are trying to pOison the Hindu mind, what is happening today IS the result of this they are trying to generate fear in the com­ inaction and insensitivity. The Government mon man, they are trying to breed hatred must use the authority that we have vested among the people and we have got to stop it. in them, they must use all the legal and admmistrative power that the people of India Ram Chanderji is a symbol of Indian have reposed in them, If the situation has to culture, Iqbal, the great poet. calfed him the change. H these mIschievous etements are Imam-e-Hind. There cannot be a greater title 113 Discussion under ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Ru/s193 114

than that-Imam of India. We all honour and site of the present Babri Masjid which IS sub respect him and these people are trying to judice, Which is disputed premises, whose dishonour his memory through ads of ille­ title has not bean decided, whose title is gality. through acts of unlawful trespass pending before the Special Bench of the through the proposed demolHion of a place Allahabad High Court at Lucknow. If the title of worship. That is not Hinduism. that is not has notbe(tndecided, thento laythefounda­ the cult of Rama, that is not the message of tion stone of a structure which involves the Hindu culture. The V,shwa Hindu Parishad demolition of the Babri Masjid is obviously an organised this Ram Shila pooja throughout illegal act. Why should you permit this illegal the country. No next of Hindu architecture or act? Why should you permit this patently temple architecture, prescribes Shila PooJa. unlawful adivity? After all, according to that It is a total invention. I brought It to the notice ground plan, the temple simply cannot be 'Jf the han. Minister. It has got no sacred constructed without demolishing the Babri character at all: it has got no religious Masjid. I must say that Vishwa Hindu Par­ sanction at all. A procession that is tradi­ Ishad is absolutely honest; Even after giving tional. has got legal rights, a procession the so-called undertaking to the Govern­ which is invented to disturb law and order ment of India, the very next day Mr. Shingal has no legal rights at all. It should be banned. went on record and said to the Organizer on It has not been banned and the result IS that 27th September. I quote 'the sanctum sane­ the country is on fire and we do not know how torum or the Garbha Griha of the proposed many more places would be set on fire. I temple will remain at the same place where really shunder to think that when these little at present worship is being made of the idol streams join together from village to Pan· of Shri Ram Lal Virajaman'. He added ''the chayat, from Panchayat to district town and struggle of the Hindu society is for the sanc­ from the district town to the capital town and tum sanctorum of the Janam Bhoomi. In then onwards to Ayodhaya into a mighty case the Hindus do not get this place till 9th stream mighty flood. what shall they carry of November, there shall be a sangharshfor away in that flood? The secular structure, the Janam Bhooml," So, he shall not be content democratic temper of the people, the bha­ with laying the foundation stone of a dwara. ichara, the traditional amity, the· philosophy 30 feet away or 100 feet away on the 9th of of co"existence, the claims of brothtHhood, November. He has threatened to launch a our nationalism, our nationhood, all that would struggle to take over the Babrj Masjid if on be drowned In that mighty stream. 9th November he does not get it. Sir. what is important is not the distance at which the I appeal to the Government to stop foundation stone will be laid. What is impor­ these processions locally and the transpor­ tant is the ground plan. Therefore, I think tatbn of these bricks to Ayodhaya. After all. Government should have taken a very forth­ nothing can be constructed in Ayodhaya right view. If the Vlshwa Hindu Parishad now. The matter is sub judice. wishes to construct a temple according to a plan which covers the Babri Masjid, thay They say that in Ayodhaya they are have to wait until the case is decided and going to fay the foundation stone of a pro­ until the title to the Babri Masjid is decided. If posed Ram Janambhoomi temple. I would it is decided in their favour. then of course, not go into the legal and historical question at they can lake over the place and do what all. I would deal with the current situation they like with it But until then they have to only. wait. Of course, if they have a different plan or if they revise the plan and build a temple I would like to know from the Govern­ to the honour and glory of Lord Rama, totally ment whether the Government have seen separate and distinct from the Babri Masjid, the ground plan of this temple at any stage. with no possibility of conflict of interest with Have they examined it to find out whether the Babri Masjid, then like any other project this ground plan covers or does not cover the of public interest, the Government can deal 115 Discussion under OCTOBER 12. 1989 Rule 193 116 [Sh. Syed Shahabuddin} ing the court verdict as the Constitution does not vest powers in the court: of w"h it, This is what I would like the Govern .. question the divine faith of the people." ment to say. Government should make It absolutely clear that in this struggle for Hindu So. their claim IS based on the diVine votes, the Ruhng Party IS not In the game. faith of the people and therefore, how a court

Unfortunately I the Impression IS that the BJP can come In their way. But here the han. alone IS not In thIs game but other PartIes are Minister says that Shri Shingal or the Vishwa atso looking for the Hindu vote because Hindu Parishad have agreed to abide by the Hindu vote does £IXISt now. court's decision. I Will be very grateful to the han. Minister if he clanfies this point when he AN HON. MEMBER: Which are those comes to It. I am very sorry to say that there parties? IS a general impression-though I may not share that-that the Government have ca­ SHRI SYEO SHAHABUDDIN' Well, It IS pitulated before the Vishwa Hindu Panshad. for your party to say (/nt9rrLt ...;. Jns) I think It IS in the anterest not only of the Party to which the Home Minister belongs but of SHRI SYED SHAHABUDDIN Why are the country as a whole that such an impres­ you warned? I do not belong to that Party I sion must immedIately be removed have certainly saKI I will not talk 10 BJP I would like a c.ategoncal declamation to that SII, the people of thiS country are wed­ effed by every political party In the country ded to the concept of Justice, to the concept You must say that the BJP IS an outcaste of Dharma. Nobody wants anarchy Neither because the BJP does not beheve In secular a Hmdu nor a Muslim wants a CIVil war and order. The BJP IS against IndIan national­ bloodshed. In this game all would suffer and ism. We shall have nothing to do with BJP. all fingers would be burnt. Not only Akshya Let everyone say that and that IS my de­ Brahmachari but Kamalapatl Trtpathiji him­ mand. self told me.

Sir, the Government should therl=?fore [ Trans/arlon] take a very cleal 5tand eltrer the \lIshwa Hindu Panshad should change their plan or I Will saCrifIce my life. but I will not let they should deferthe foundatIon laying cere· such a Sin to be committed dunng my life­ mony. Of course f am happy that the han time MIn1ster has made It vary clear yesterday that the Government has so far not gIven any [Engltsh] land. I would also lIke him to assure us about one more aspect. Perhaps some such nego­ In every publIC speech, I have been mention­ tiations are a foot. He must kill the very In9 thiS. ThiS great man of India, thiS great poSSibility of such a transaction taklnQ place son of India. this great Brahmtn from Be­ naras, says The han. MInister has said that the V,shwa Hindu Panshad has committed Itself [ Translation] to abide by the court declc;lon Unfortunately here IS a report In the Te/egraph of 6th III Will not let such a SI n take place in my October In whIch Shn Shlngal has said lifetime.

"It IS a fact that Mr. Buta Singh had a [English) meeting with the Vlshwa Hindu Par­ Ishad leaders at his own InitiatIve and I certainly like to pay a tribute to Akshaya the only thing discussed was law and Brahmachari who was the first man to say" I order. There is no questIOn of accept- will die but save Babri Masjid." I would also 117 Discussion under ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Rultl193 118 like to pay a tribute to a man like Shri Chan­ House to the conscience of the nation, to the drasekhar who has baen patted with the guardians of our secularism, the people of stones but has taken a clear and firm stand India, to the respected figures of our national on the question of Babri Masjid. I would also life, to come forward, intervene and force the like to pay a tribute to this great Leader Mr. Vishwa Hindu Parishad to stop this mischie­ Rajeshwar Rao. who told me on his 75 vous game and not to lay the foundation Birthday: stone of any structure in Ayodhya unit such time as the title to the disputed premises is [ Translation] settled by the highest judicial authority in the country. "Shri Shahabuddin, no revolution wi1l take place during my life time I do not have I would appeal to the Government, once any desire to live. I will sacrifice my life to again. to please stop these processions. If save 8abri Masjid from being demolished". you cannot interfere with Shila Poojan, all right, but let these Ram Shilas be stocked [English] where they are. Let them remam where they are till such time as they are needed in He has given a call to all the secular Ayodhya. forces in the country to assemble on the 8th of November to thwart these evil designs Finally, I would like to say that I have and save the country. I appal to the House to much hope in the hon. Minister. He has endorse this great call of the CPI with a firm strived day and night, for months. I know he and unanimous resolve has faced many obstacles. He has faced a lot of resistance outside and inside. I hope A humble suggestion was mcde yester­ that he shall rise to the occasion and give a day and I endorse it. The hon. Minister had lead to the country and save this country himself made this suggestion in a meeting of from burning. the leaders about enacting a law that will protect the status of all places of worship as Thank you very much. on 15th August, 1947. And a Private Mem­ bers' Bill was also submitted by Mr. Banat­ [ Translat;on] walla. Nothing has happened. Since the meeting SIX months have elapsed. I would PROF. NIRMAlA KUMARI SHAKTA­ suggest, let us bring such a Bill on Monday. WAT (Chit1orgarh): Mr. Deputy Speaker, It may be a three line Bill. Let us put an end Sir, with a heavy heart I would like to say that to all the trouble in the future. Let us wipe the even after 42 years of independence, com­ slate clean. Let us completely curb these evil munal nots have totally disturbed the peace designs once and for all the bring glory to our of our secular country. These riots are befOg country. incited in a planned manner and the B.J.P. is behind such incidents. If we look back to the Babri Masjid is not a Hindu-Muslim history of India, it becomes abundantly clear question. Please don't look at itthatway.lt is that the B.J.P. is the only party which has the question of the sanctity of the Constitu­ been inciting the communal riots in tha coun­ tlOll of India. It is the question of the rule of try in a systematic way. Earlier, in the name law and the supremacy of law. It is the of 'Hedgewar Birth Centenary' celeb!ations, question of permanance of Indja's compos­ they tried to spread the venom of communal­ Ite culture. It is the question whether we shall ism aU over the country by raising dirty and be worthy of being calfed a civilised society provocative slogans. Now, they are hatching or we shall go back to the law of the jungle. a conspiracy for their narrow political ends. We cannot afford to fail the test. I therefore From time to time, the erstwhile Jan Sangh appeal not only to the Government. not only and now B.J.P. have given slogans of Hindu- to the political parties but going outside the ism to catch votes. And they were also 119 Discussion under OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rule 193 120

[Prof. Nirmala Kumari Shaktawat) slogans used during the procession. Sir, I feel ashamed to say that procession passed behind the killing of Mahatma Gandhi, the through narrow lanes and by-lanes in the haribinger of secularism in the country. evening provoking people which resulted In the death of innocent people in stone throw­ Whenever elections approach they ing incidents. become active. Sir, in 1980 they gave a slogan against cow slaughter and in 1984. Sir, I am oonstrainted to say that on 14th they carried sacred Ganga Water to various September, the day of disturbances, curfew places. They planned communal distur­ was imposed in the city Despite curfew. a bances through sale of sacred Ganga Water procession was taken out even on 15th till overthe country. But th9Y did not succeed September and at some places incidents of In their designs. They are hatching a big arson took place. At many places shops communal conspiracy by organising Ram owned by aparticularcommunity were burnt. Shtla Pujans for which they are collecting a In Shakarpur area of Kota, which is part of' large sum at money my constituency, one Abdul Kader, looking after a Mosque was attacked and his 18 Sir, in the Congress ruled States alone. years old son Sadiq Hussain. was killed. most of the Ram Shila Pujans have been Some question do crop up from all such periormed with a view to bringing a bad incidents. Therefore. I would like to request name to the party. From the statistics avail­ the han. Minister to look into these ques­ able, it is clear that Ram Shila Pujans num­ tions. First, for one and a half hours slogan bering 3595 were organised in Rajasthan, shouting continued in Kota. Ouri:1g that pe­ 2295 in U.P. and 2971 in Gujarat. While in riod what was thA administration doing an.d' non·Cong(ess ruled States, VIZ., Assam. only why werethe B.J.P. M.L.As taking part in the 3 were organised, In Haryana 69, in Karna­ procession not arrested? They were shout­ taka 40, in Kerala 23 and In Tamil Nadu 499 Ing provocative slogans. Second, why action Shila Pujans wert:t held. From all this one was not taken against the Police Officers, thing in clpar that these Wt)re organised in who ran away in autorikshaw leaving the the Congress ruled states only to defame the field free for disturbances? Third. Govern­ Congress Government. B.J.P. IS promoting ment should look into the incidents of arson all this for narrow political interests. and looting of shops on 15th September despite the enforcement of curfew on 14th Sir, B.J.P.'saliiance with Shiv·Senaand September itself. I would also like to request Bairang Oat ha5 sounded the bell of great the Government to simplify the procedure for danger to the unity of the nation. Bad name filing of compensation papers in the cases of IS being brough' 10 ShlvaJI by spreading persons killed in the riots. I would like to give communalism in his name, though hefought another suggestion. The political parties like for the unity and integrity 0 1 the nation. For Shiv Sena and Bajrang Oal who incite com­ thiS we have to hang our head In shame. munalism should be banned. People of this Most of this took place m July. September country, 95 percent of whom are secular, will and October. Sir, It IS difficult to forget the never allow B.J.P. to play with the Hindu unfortunate incidents that took place on 14 sentiments for votes. I cannot forget to thank September in Kota which is a part of my the Han. Prime Minister, Shri Rajiv Gandhi, constituency. That day ghastly display of who clearly stated in meetings at Kota and communalism was witnessed. By rarnam· Udaipur that the Congress is not worried bering those incidents our eyes automati· about the election resu~s, it is worried about cally lower down in shame. Despite the the unity of the country and the sanctity of participation of two B.J.P. M..L.As in the prinCiples of secularism, democracy and Anan1 Chaturda~~,i procession, for one and socialism which are the pillars of our nation. () half hours. provocatIve slogans were raised. Therefore ,I wou Id like to state that the people Was It not their duty to stop provocative of our country will never allow them to reaHse 121 Discussion under ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Suppl. Demands 122 Rule 193 for Grants (General) 1989-90 their dream of governing the nation on the communal situation upto 6 p.m. At 17.45 basis of religion. Besides, the people will hours, the Minister of State Shri P. Chidam­ never aJIow Shri V.P. Singh allegedly having baram wi" intervenue and the Minister of foreign accounts, to cherish his dream of Home Affairs S. Buta Singh will 9we the reply ruling the country in alignement with B.J.P. tomorrow. and Shiv .Sana. Most important of all is t'J straightaway ban the political parties with 17.2& hr•. communal leavings. For maintaining peace in all districts and towns peace committees SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR should be constituted. GRANTS (GENERAL). 1989-90-CONTD.

I would like to state on the ,floor of the [English) House that if we demand a Hindu state there will be similar demands from Muslims, Sikhs MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: We now take and Christians for separate State and no up item no 9A Discussion and voting on the citizen will tolerate demgration of unity and Supplementary Demands for Grants in re­ Integrity of the nation. All of us must strive to spect of the Budget (General) for 1989-901 check growing communalism in the country. Today. all the people are looking towards Motion moved: one person named Shri Rajiv Gandhi and towards one party called the Indian National 'crhat the respective supplementary Congress. Now, I conclude wIth the remark sums not exceeding the amount on that this dream of the B.J.P. will never get Revenue Account and Capital Account fulfilled. shown in the third oolumn of Order Paper be granted to the President out of the Consolidated Fund of India to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year [English] ending 31st day of March, 1990 in respect of the following demands en­ MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The House tered in the second column thereo1- Will have to take up item No. 9A. After finish­ ,ng this item, we shall resume the discussion on communal situation. Even if we finish the Demands Nos. 1.4. 5, 8, 12,21, Supplementary Demands for Grants imme­ 24,46,49,56,62,74,75,76.79 diately, we shall continue the discussion on and 90." 123 Suppl. Demands OCTOBER 12. 1989 (General) 1989-90 124 for Grants

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Sir I the Supplementary Demands cover it is absolutely necessary that the scheme is twenty Grants and involved gross expendi­ implemented in a very sincere manner so ture of Rs. 3025.93 crores. The concerned that it can present concrete results. I will not Ministries/Departments have identified dwell at length because there is not much matching savings, increased receipts to the time on this particular subject. I must also extent of Rs. 1785.18 erores. Therefore, the welcome the attention that is being paid to net additional expenditure is Rs. 1,240.75 the housing for the weaker sections and we erorss, out of which, As. 338.75 crores relate have a supplementary demand thereto. which to Jawahar Rozgar Yojana; As. 150 crores I must heartily welcome. Housing for the for urban poverty alleviation; As. 200 crores weaker section is an area that needs greater for subsidy on imported fertiliser; As. 150 and greater attention and I hope everything crores for cash compensatory support; As. will be done for it. Of course though much '20 crores for interest subsidy on export can be done, yet It will not prove adequate. credit; As. 90 crores for comprehensive crop I wish that scheme too a success. insurance scheme; Rs. 70 crores for Post­ matric scholarship for SC/ST students; Rs. SHRI A.K. PANJA: I am thankful to the 62 crores for freedom fighters' pension and han. Member for what he said. This Govern­ Rs. 10 crores for grant to Sports Authority of ment under the leadership of our Prime India. Minister, Shri Aajiv Gandhi, has been giving keen attention to the poverty alleviation The hon, Members would find the pro­ programmes. Since 70 par cent of the popu­ posals in the introductory remarks appended lation live in rural areas, first priority was to the Supplementary Demands and t~e given to the rural areas and various pro­ details are also given there. grammes were taken up there. Thereafter, of course, there were various studies about Therefore, I pray that these Demands the urban poverty. The hon. Member is right be passed. that there are people who might be more poorthan some people in rural areas. That is SHRI G.M. BANATWALlA (Ponnani): why, when the money became available, we Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I rise to congratu .. took up the next priority of alloviation of late the Government on paying attention to urban poverty. The Government is fully the urban poor also. I also welcome the conscious of this position. That is why. not announcement that was made by the Prima only the urban poverty but various thrust Minister yesterday. And in the Supplemen­ areas were taken into consideration. Some tary Demands also, we have as was just demand which were found very very genu­ pointed out by the hon. Minister, urban pov­ ine like freedom fighters' pension, post-matric erty atleviation programma. I must empna- scholarship for SC&ST students, ware con- 131 Appr. (No.5) OCTOBER 12, 1989 Bill, 1989 132 (Sh. A.K. Panja] MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques­ tion is: ceded. These are urban as well as rural. But within urban and rural areas there are certain tlThat leave be granted to introduce a thrust areas which required to be given special Bill to authorise payment and appro­ attention. That is why, our Prime Minister priation of certain further sums from gave command and direction 'for intensive and out of the Consolidated Fund of care in tho!.e thrust areas. That is why, these India for the services of the financial provisions have been made. I am sure the year 1989-90." Whole House will accept these provisions. The Motion was adopted MR. DEPUTY·SPEAKER: I shall now put the Supplementary Demands for Grants SHR A.K. PANJA: I introduce* the Bill. (General) for 1989-90 to vote. The question is: SHRI A.K. PANJA: I beg to move*:

'That the respective supplementary "That the Bill to authorise payment and sums not exceeding the amounts on appropriation of certain further sums Revenue Account and Capital Account from and out of the Consolidated Fund shown In the third column of Order of India for the services of the financial Paper be granted to the President out year 1989-90, be taken into considera­ of the Consolidated Fund of Ind:a to tion." defray the charges that will come in course of payment dUring the year MR. DEPUTY·SPEAKER: The ques­ ending 31 st day of March, 1990 In tion IS: respect of the follOWing demands en­ tered In the second column thereof- "That the Bill to authOrise payment and appropriation of certain further sums DemandNos 1,4,5,8,12,21,24, from and out of the Consolidated Fund 46,49,56.62.74,75.76,79 and of India for the services of the financial 90." year 1989-90 be taken into considera­ t!on." The Motion was adopted The Motion was adopted

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, we 17.32 hrs. take up clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill. APPROPRIATION (NO.5) BILL, 1989 The question is: [English] "That Clauses 2 and 3 and the Sched·

SHRI A.K. PANJA I beg to move fOl ule stand part of the Bill. II leaveto Introduce a 8111 to authorise payment and appropriation of c8rtatn further sums The Motion was adopted from and out of the Consolidated Fund of IndIa for the services of the fInancial year Clauses 2 and 3 and the Schedule were 1989-90. added to the Bill

------_." -"------_._------

• Introduced/Moved With the recommendation of the President. 133 Discussion und8r ASVINA 20,1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 134

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The quas- heed to the suggestions of Maulana Azad, tion is: Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan and Rafi Ahmed Kidwai. But we supported ShriJinnah, Why? "Th at Clause 1, the Enacting Form ula Because he advocated partition of the coun­ and the Title stand part of the Bill." try. We remember those days when slogans like "bant kar rahaga Hindustan, ban kar The Motion was adopted rehega Pakistan" were raised. Whenever I rise to speak on the subject of riots, I hear my Clause 1, the Enacting Formula and the conscience question me as to how long Title were added to the Bill these sad ,things will continue.

SHAI A.K. PANJA: I beg to move: Our work is limited to our constituencies only. Shahabuddin Saheb, we are not the "That the Bill be passed" leaders of muslims and nordo we want to be. We get muslim votes as well as Hindu votes MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The ques­ and we take the blessings of Pandits also tion is: and this is the secret of our success. When we come here, we forget that we are mus­ "That the Bill be passed" lims. It is our duty to serve our constituencies which are inhabited by Hindus Muslims, The Motion was ,1dopted Harijans and other communities. We should see that atrocities are not committed on any one. I have always said and will repeat here once again that neither all the Hindus are 17.34 hrs. bad nor are all the Muslims good. It is our responsibility to find good people. I would DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 like to submit to t'1e members belonging to the Congress Party that it is we who are Communal Situation in the Country­ responsible for the present situation. The CON TO responsibility lies on us and our Hindu friends. Can't we all become like Mahavir Tyagi or [ Translation) Akshya Brahmachari? At least we should try. Muslims cannot bear this responsibility. SHRI K.J. ABBASI (Oumriaganj): Mr. Neither Zainul Basher nor Kazhi Jalil can do Deputy Speaker. Sir, I am grateful to you for this. It is our Hindu friends who can save us giving me an opportunity to speak on this from this fire and they have to do it. If there subject. is any memory left of the sacrifices of Ma­ . hatma Gandhi and Shrimati Indira Gandhi, We remember those days when our our Hindu friends must take upon them­ Hindu friends and we fought together for the selves the responsibility of protecting Mus­ independence of the country. It never oc­ lims. We will also have to follow them. There cured to us then that a time will come after is a village in my constituency where there forty years of independence, when we would was a cremation ground for Hindus and a be required to apply our minds as to how the graveyard for the Muslims. During the con­ Hindu-Muslim riots could be checked. I would solidation of land holdings, the graveyard like to repeat the words of my friends Shri land was distributed. Many Muslims came to Zainul Basher. The story starts from the me and complained of this atrocity. That partition of the country which is a fait accom­ graveyard has been changed into a crema­ pli, Shahabuddin Saheb, we are more re­ tion ground. They started quarrelling on this sponsible forthe partition of the country than issue. A police inspector was called, but he Hindu and we cannot deny this. This country did not take any action as he could not find wouldn't have partitioned, if we had paid any difference in the two. Later, a Harijan 135 Discussion unde, OCTOBER 12, 1989 Rule 193 136 (Sh. K.J. Abbasi] to get 5 minutes to express my views. Last Time afso. I had referred to the issue of Ram was buried ther., which ag_n lad to a quar­ Janmbhoomi and today also I submit that rel. As a result, that graveyard was again last time a procession was being takan out in divided into two. People ~. to me with a my area. Efforts were made to stop It and complaint. I immediately sent soma people when ~ could not be stopped. violence there and asked for a report. They reported erupted. One Hindu was killed in the police to ma that it was the fau~ of the inspector. I firing. I was in Delhi. I was informed on told the Muslims that they would not get their telephone and' immediately went there. I graveyard if they fought. In this way I solved met the collector and the S.P. on way and that issue. told them that whether the victim was Hindus or Muslim, it was equally distressing for me. Many speeches have been made here. How did such a situation arise and how the Shri Shahabuddin also made his speech. police were given orders for firing. That was One of ourfriends also delivered his speech. the village of Hindus and I proceeded to­ We were pained to hear their speeches. wards that village. People told me not to go They held the Government fully. responsible there as I was a muslim. Rrstly. I thought to for all this and said that Muslims in such a gather some Hindus with me, but then I large number were not killed even in Iran­ thought of my faith in God and went to that Iraq war. Than they asked why we had not village. All the Hindus gathered there and resigned when there were differences. Why said that such a situation would not have should we resign? In the COf'1gress. our occurred. had you been there, as people leaders have taught us to frght against the would have obeyed you. This was said by oppression. the Hindus of that village. The Government will take its own time in providing compensa­ India could have never been a secular tion, so I collected Rs. 5100 from the Mus.. country, had Congress Party or Mahatma lims and gave it to the widow of that Hindu. Gandhi not been there. It is only because of Within ten days, she was given a compensa­ them that the Muslims are today able to live tion of Rs. 20000 by the Government. I said here without any fear or Shri Shahabuddin that if Hindu died, the Muslims would collect can Jive in India. But for the Congress Party money and if Muslimdied, then Hindus would and Mahatma Gandhi, there would have collect the money for paying oompensation. been Hindu Raj in the rountry. Why has the We have to create such feelings. Later BJP Congress party been continuing to win the m9mbers visited the place and asked them elections and not BJP? Why don't you say to give back the money. But they were told this? Shn Zalnul Basher mentioned about that they would do no such thing, as BJP did sincerity, but I would Itke to submit that not come at the time of their need, it were the Hindus here are secular. Otherwise they congress people who came. Now tney should would have been misted by those persons go from here. We have to crate such an who take out processions by sitting in a car atmosphere all over India. We have to do it and Shri Rajiv Gandhi and Shrimati Indira in our const~uencies. The Government will Gandhi would have lost the elections. The do ~s own duty. Just now Shri Zainul Basher Hindus here are secular.. They not only vote referred to the issue of 'Shilanyas' ana also for Shri Rajiv Gandhi but for Shri Zalil Ab­ reiterated that this ·Shilanayas' ceremony basi, Shri Zainul Basher and Shri Shahabud­ should be stopped. If something happened din also. so that they may also realise that there, the Congress Government would be they are not the representatives of Muslims held responsible for it. So you should stop it. atone, but of Hindus also. God knows what would have happened. if the Rath -Yatra had not been stopped by Shri Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wanted to Vir Bahadur Singh. Nobody could know as to express my regret. I was listening to the where the Rath had gone. You would hav.to ."..ches dolivered her and was very eager say it emphaticaHy that th.... will be no 137 Discussion under . ASVINA 20. 191 1 (SAKA) Rule 193 138 foundation laying ceremony. The Govern­ Government in bringing down the oommunal ment is not weak. You should ask tham to temperatura in 1987 and 1988 as a result of wait for the Courts' decision. It is the primary the number of steps that we took in 1986, I do duty of the Government to provide justice to not want to set store by figures and statistics the people and put down the disruptive forces. atone; but figures and statistics to show that Our Congress Government has a long his­ beginning in the second quarter of 1987 and tory. The hon. Minister should remember it through 1988 and the first half of 1989 the and act upon it. We deliver speeches here, graph of communal incidents, the graph of but it is more necessary to implement the communal violence, the graph of communal suggestions made therein. We are capable killings, the graph of injuries did come down and the congress is alive and will remain in this country. It is not as though the pro­ alive and no other Party can come to power. vocative issues were resolved. The first is­ In future also the Congress Party will form sue which inflamed communal passions was the Government. Shahabuddin Saheb can­ the controversy over the Muslim Personal not win only on Muslim votes. His fnsaaf law. But I beJieve the Government resolved Party can never do justice. There is only one it to the satisfaction of the Muslim commu· party that will form the Government. So we nity. The CPI(M) Politburo in its resolution have to bear the responsibility. We have to which was quoted by Mr. Shahabuddin in his follow the principles of Gandhiji and Indiraji magazine accused the Government of ap· and we will show to the world that we are peasement of Muslim fundamentalists when capable of governing the country. I am grate­ we took that step. Nevertheless Govern­ ful to you for giving me an opportunity to ment took that step because Government speak. With these words, I conclude. thought it was a right step and it was neces­ sary to communal harmony and peace, to [English] allay the apprehensions and anxieties for a major minority community in this country. THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Then came the demand for uniform civil MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL, PUBLIC code which became a bone of contention GRIEVANCES AND PENSIONS AND MIN­ among communities. ISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI P. CHIDAMBA­ Processions have acquired a competi·

RAM): Sir I I wish to intervene briafly at this tive edge; on the one hand Ram Navmi stage of the debate. On more than one procession and on the other hand Moharrum occasion, this House has discussed the procession. The processions were larger, communal situation in the country. On more sometimes more unruly, with more slogan than one occasion, I have participated in the shouting, more banners, more trucks, more debate and I have given expression not only used of loud speakers. The use of religious to my personal views but also to the views of symbols by every community became more the Government. blatant, more glaring, mora provocative. 5enas sprouted in this country. Mr. Sha· Sir, my first exposure to a major com­ habuddin mentioned the name of some munal riot was in Ahmedabad. The inhu­ Senas, he did not mention some others. He manity, the brutality, the madness which was reciting a list of Senas. Senas sprouted grips human beings came as a great shock. in this country, they began to acquire sym­ Over the year, particularly, during my fre· bols. Weapons came to be described as quent trips to Gujarat and U.P., I have tried symbols and symbols were used as weap­ to understand the problems, the causative ons. Criminal elements entefed fundamen­ factors behind-steps to be taken by State talist groups. The criminalisation of these Governments and State Administrations to processions and ceremonies, the entry of maintain communaJ harmony and peace. In criminal elements aggravated the situation. fact, we initiated a large number of steps. I wouJd with some .modesty take credit for the To sum up, we have gone through a 139 Discussion undsr OCTOBER 12, 1989 RulB 193 140 {Sh. P. Chidambaram] The hon. Home Minister has spoken to every group. We are firm Iy committed to two three year period of what I would call, com­ courses. The first course that we took for petitive religiosity that added an acute di­ several months and which can still be pur­ mension to the practice and profession of sued-if the people will see the reason and religion. Throughout this three year period come together-is to resolve this dispute by Government has stood firm and has not negotiations and by discussions. That is the appeased one community or the other; but way of civilised society. That is the only way, consistent with its constitutional obligations, in which a democracy can resolve its dis-­ tried to help the State Government preserve putes. When we found that that course was law and order, maintain communal harmony. not leading us towards a solution, we took the other course, namely, of persuading the Let me go back to my first exposure, parties, to have the disputes resolved in a Ahmedabad. It was the bandhthat was called Judicial forum. As we said earlier on the last in Ahmedabad which led to the communal occasion, we are committed to both courses. not. I had no hesitation In coming before thiS But today-it seems to us-resolution in the House and saying that I condemn those who Judicial forum seems to be the better course. called thiS Bandhwhlch was the most unwise That IS why, due to the efforts taken by the Bandh to have been called. The Rath Yatra the Central Government and by the U.P. became an occasion for noting and dispute. Government, the matter now stands referred But in the last three years there are many to a Special Bench of the High Court, steps that we havetaken. Every year I visited Allahabad and we sincerely hope that all Ahmedabad and today the Rath Yatra in parties will abide by the verdict of the judicial Ahmedabad IS a peaceful occasion where all forum. But, Sir, the new element which has communities gather together and celebrate come into the controversy, is the 'open, bla­ it wIth gaiety. tant, and shameless display of the commu­ nal card by a major political party in the 18.00 hrs. country, the BJP. Below and behind the thin crust of civility and secularism that the lead­ It IS not as If we cannot remove thiS commu­ ers wear, I believe, is a heart which is com­ nal pOIson whIch affects us. With firm meas­ munal and a mind which is facist. I have no ures, with a clear policy and with determined hesitation in naming the BJP and its sundry steps, it IS pOSSible to maintain communal allies as the single biggest cause for the harmony. But, what has happened in the last communal disharmony that this country has quarter-from July to September 1989- seen in the last quarter. Unfortunately, there which, I say with deep regret, has been the are political parties in this country, who aspire worst quarter in the four-and-a-half years of to rule this country, who aspire to achieve this Government? Why? The single biggest positions in Government, who have no hesi­ issue is the controver3Y revolving round Sabri tation in sitting with tjle BJP and talking to the Masjid and Ram Janma Bhoomi. For months, BJP and joining the BJP. Today, it is the the hon. Home Minister has patiently spoken BJP's communal card which has completely :0 every group which IS Involved. He will pOisoned that atmosphere. Witness the BJP ,:ome tomorrow and reply In great detail. President going around Delhi, sitting, in what appears to be a position of piety and devo­ tion before priests and participating in a , think you will allow me a few minutes ceremony to consecrate the bricks. I know beyond 6 O'Clock. I thought I should answer that building a temple is a very great act of it today because the question has been devotion, but for a political party to openly raised. if I may say, with great passion by associate itself with ceremonies, proces­ Shn Syed Shahabuddm and sEltveral others. sions, pujas and yatras which will only exac­ I thought, to set the record straight, I must erbate the feelings and emotions, I think, is speak. the greatest disservice it can do to this coun- 141 Discussion under ASVINA 20, 1911 (SAKA) Rule 193 142 try. Remember 1967 when the same political Here is an organisation which is deter­ party in its earlier avatar started a campaign mined to go through its programme of build .. on the issue of cow slaughter on the eve of ing a temple for lord Ram. As Mr. Sha· elections. Remember 1984 when the same habuddin himself said, building a temple party started a campaign of taking GangaJa/ itself is not a prohibited activity nor is it to purify various things in this country. Come unlawful. Here is an organisation which has elections, this party in its former avatar attempted with moderate success to m.obi­ Bhar3tiya Jan Sangh' and in its present lise the people to send bricks to Ayodhya to avatar 'Bharatiya Janata Party', is shame­ build a temple. As long as this activity and lessly playing the communal card in order to this programme does not cross the limits of win the Hindu vote which it believes is com­ the law, the State-in this case, it will be the munal. Let me say this. I am absolutely State of Uttar Pradesh-would have to regu­ cel1ain in my fYJind. I have no doubt in my late this activity in such a mannerthat it does mind whatsoever, that the vast majority of not lead to any violations or lead to commu­ Hindus, who are secular, will seethe political nal strife. This is precisely what the Chief party for what it IS and reject it totally and Minister of Uttar Pradesh is now engaged in. summarily. ThiS country is built on the foun­ No promise has been made to the VHP. No dations of seculansm. Nobody lives in this undertaking has been given to the VHP. But country at the mercy of another person. We we have taken note of an undertaking given live because of the Constitution of this coun­ by the VHP and I wish to read that: try which we have given to ourselves and we have a right to live and the right to practise liThe VHP has undertaken to abide by and profess our faith in our religion. the directives of the Lucknow Bench of the Allahabad High Court given on Some comments were made about the 14.8.1989 to the effect that the parties recent talks which the Home Minister had to the suit shall maintain the status quo with the Vishwa Hindu Panshad and certain and shall not change the nature of the other organisations. Lot me say this very property in questIon and ensure that clearly. He has made no promise and has peace and communal harmony are given no undertaking to the Vishwa Hindu maintained. " t=>arishad. On the contrary. in their talks on 27th of September 1989, representatives of This, of course, is what the VHP has told us. the Vishwa Hindu Parishad agreed to the But having told us this, a number of state­ following and I wish to place this on record: ments have appeared subsequently which One, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad will give have the effect of repudiating this statement. prior intimation to the concerned district That's why (thought r should stand up today authorities of the shiJa procession and agree and say that while we have taken note of the to change the route in case the district au­ statement of the VHP made to the Chief thorities so deSire In pubic Interest. Two, the Minister of Uttar Pradesh and the Home Vlshwa Hindu Parlshad and its followers Minister on the 27th of September. .. we have would not raise any provocative slogans also taken note of subsequent statements which may endanger communal harmony. made by the representatives of the VHP and Three, as far as possible, the bricks would be other organisations which seem to repudiate earned in trucks on the routes determined this undertaking. On the part of the Govern­ before hand in consultation with the con­ ment, let me assure the House and all sec­ cerned district authorities. Four, senior and tions of people of thiS country that we are responsible VHP functionaries, who takethe committed to enforce the order of the High responsibility of guiding the procession. will Court of Allahabad in its Lucknow Bench and extend full cooperation to the district authori­ we shall not allow any person or organisation ties. Five, the spot in Uttar Pradesh, where to change the status quo on the ground. We the bricks will be collected, will be decided in are determined to ensure that the rule of law consultation with the district authorities. is obeyed. We shall not allow anyone to do [Sh. P. Chidambaraml Home Ministar has already said that mn afterthesesslonofParUamentisovar. hewitt anything or attempt to do anything which will , call all political parties who believe in the change the status quo on the ground or secular traditions of this country and which which will alter the property or the structure hav~ secular credentials beyond doubt to which goes by the name of 8abri Masjid and ensure that the rest of this year passes we shall ensure that the order passed by the peacefully and communal harmony and Lucknow Bench of Allahabad High Court is peace are maintained. We shall not desist maintained. And for that the Government will from any step which is required to maintain do everything in its power and authority. let communal harmony and peace. I want to ma conclude by saying, whether Mr. Sha­ give this assurance into only to those who habuddin will be there on the 8th and 9th of have participated in this debate today but November or not, I will be there, the Govern­ also to those who will participate in this ment of India will be there to ensure that debate tomorrow and to all the people of this nobody violates the rule of law and nobody country. I want to allay all apprehensions takes the law in this hands. Having said that, and fears. The Government is determined to I would still appeal to all concerned to see take every step that is necessary to preserve and consider the kind of damage and de­ communal harmony and peace. struction that is being done to this country, to the secular fabric of this country, to the PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: (Baramulla): secular polity of this country and to withdraw Sir, may I seek a clarification? and not to associate with any procession or ceremony or yatra. This is not the time for MR. DEPUTY ·SPEAKER: The Minis­ ceremonies or processions or yatras. This is tar, Mr. Buta Singh, will reply tomorrow, the time to uphold the secular traditions of when you can have your points clarified. He this country. This is the time to show great has only intervelled now. tolerance, this ;s the tIme to raspect one another's faith. This is not the time and Now, the House stands adjourned to occasion to indulge in any kind of competi­ meet tomorrow at 11.00 A.M. tive religiously. I am quite sure that tomor­ row, at the end of this debate, when this 18.13 hrs. House will express its view and I believe it will, the people of this country will rally round The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven the secular forces. We are determined to of the Clock on Friday, Octob8r 13, 1989/ gather all the secular forces together. The Asvina 21, 1911 (Saka).

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