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The film crew seta up In Frobisher Bay with the temperature at 30 below. Countelockwlse Insets are: One of the Iced tell that were also kept at below zero temperatures; Paul Newman on the set of the Information center; Playing Quintet alter the world holocaust; Bibi Andersson as Ambrosia Is Illuminated by the single bare bulb In her quarters.

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- - .. What? Robert Altman (director of M*A*S*H, IYashvllle, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, etc.) Is directing Paul Newman In a Science Fiction Post-Holocaust film shot in the Arctic . ...? Yes! • Interview by JAMES DELSON

OBERT ALTMAN IS a director whose fan­ tasy trips through the expenence have a goodly chunk of Don Quixote along for the ride. ' Whether he is dissecting the American Space Program in Countdown, the Army and the medical profession in M*A *S*H, country music and politics in

( Nille or the sacred bonds of conubial . bliss in A Wedding, Altman has always retained his iron-clad idealism, couching his films in a suit of armor forged by a be· lief in the basic tenets of the American Dream. For euery departure from the norm, the underlying theme is eternally hopeful, foreuer optimistic. Altman's fan· tasy films, most notably Images, Three - Women and Brewster McCloud, haue not been ouerwhelmingly successful commercially, though they haue attrac· • ted a large cult following. His uision of -,..\ ..· - reality has been supplemented by in· credible camerawork, giuing general audiences little to grasp as they are led through his dreamstate wonderlands. What plots there were seemed e/usiue to most, and the characterizations, usually featuring actors who were unknown to the masses, preuented audience identifi· cation. Result: withdrawo/ from the ex· perience. Now comes Quintet, Altman's new film of futuristic death games. Set in a distant time when the world is enue/oped in ice, Quintet offers Altman fantasy for the masses for the first time. A story of the ultimate gambling game, where players moue through a city as though on a playing board, killing each other in· stead of remouing their opponent's pieces, it may be as cryptic as other Aft· man journeys in the past, but because of the casting and linear plotline, it is more accessible than his earlier works. Star· ring Paul Newman, Bibi Anderson, Fer· nando Rey, Brigitte Fosse, Vittorio Gassman and Nina Van Pallandt, the mouie is a futuristic science fiction mys· tery with thriller ouertones. Choosing to always bite off more than he can chew, Altman once again shoots beyond his reach, but, like M*A*S*H, Images, The Long Goodbye and Thieves Like Us, all · the elements come together and the re· suit is a classic aduenture, both more and less than what he wanted, perhaps. While scouting locations for another film, Altman found a great location in the now-abandoned site of the 1967 Mon· /real Expo, "A Man and His World.,. Overwhelmed by the vrsua/ possibilities of the location, Altman re·wrote the script he was working on to fit the site, and Quintet wos born. Shooting the en· tire film on location, in the outdoors (he wanted the actors' breath to look as real as the sets), Altman struggled through a winter of awesome cold,fmishing up the production even further north, above Hudson Bay, just miles from the Arctic Circle. Contributing Editor James De/son talked with Altman in the offices of his new mini·studio in Los Angeles. De/son commented, "After numerous experi· ences with the major studios, Altman decided to build his own facilities. Boast· ing a year·round staff of secretaries, publicists, editors and technicians of every variety, the director will be able to retain complete control over his proper· ties, from idea stage through release, only giving his films over to the releasing company once they are completed to his satisfaction. Though the place wasn't finished (we watched an almost·comple· ted cut a/ Quintet in his almost·com· pleted screening room), it certainly has the feeling of an organization ready to face the world with the Master's pro· duct. Bare brick walls, warm colors, and everywhere you look, photographs and paintings of Altman's stars, Altman's productions, Altman's advertisements. It was like visiting a mansion where the proud parents display their whole family tree for guests to comment on. Altman is a medium sized bear, twinkling eyes be· /raying an otherwise businesslike ap· proach to life and work. Immediately friendly and open, he took me through the large building to an editing room, where we watched several minutes of footage from his even newer film, A Per· feet Couple. From there it was off in his BMW (no chou/fer, he drove) to the MGM Studio, where we watched sev· era/ reels of Quintet that were being screened to see if the sound track met his approval. Back at the Lion's Gate of· /ices, we finally sot down and talked/or a couple of hours. Always thinking, al· Above top, the hotel lobby cleared of fee and ready for habitation. Above Inset, Ambrosia sits forlornly amid the white shadow. of past opulence. ways alert, Altman, America's most pro· Below, scavanger dogs feeding on the dead. lific director (with four films due to be re· leased in 1979) was a challenge and a delight." ALTMAN: It was an idea of mine I was going to produce, hiring another direc­ tor and a writer. It hadn't become Quin· tet yet ... only a dark little melodrama. And I sold the idea to 20th Century-Fox on that basis. When I started to develop it, It kept changing. We didn't know where it was going, but we had sold the film and I had to deliver it by a specific date. I went looking around for loca· lions, where to shoot it, and after anum· ber of possibilities, we settled on the site of Montreal's Expo '67. It had all these wierd buildings and these props and things that were sitting around for ten years. That site gave the story the right push, because we rewrote it with that in mind and it worked. 26 A CIISino from their pre-war past offers some amusement for the survivors.

FF: The film's about a game called Quin­ FF: Your original story idea was a kind of wardrobe and that kind of thing. He'll tet? thriller with an Irish underground flavor. probably furnish a great deal of that, ALTMAN: The game I'd started back in When you made the transition with the since he's the one that's playing the the original thing-the game and the Montreal location to what has now b&­ character, so he will end up knowing dogs. There was a game in this culture; come Quintet, did the type of intrigue more about that character than I do. it'd have been like backgammon ordom­ you were looking for change? FF: The casting of Newman in a film inoes or one of those board games peo­ ALTMAN: Well, It was always to be a would seem to add a great deal to the ple played all the time. mystery, with a feel of Kafka to it. It prestige of a picture and automatically FF: And the dogs? wasn't the intriguethatchanged,justthe carry with it a certain weight at the box ALTMAN: These packs ofdogs would be approach to how It was going to be pre­ office. Does that have any bearing on roving the streets, which would be kind sented. your casting of him? of intimidating. When we found the FF: How complete was the script when ALTMAN: Well, it had some bearing, but Montreal location, we realized the you went to shoot the film? I don't usually cast films in that manner. wierdness of the place would allow the ALTMAN: We were writing constantly FF: That's what I mean. I'm talking about dogs to look right, so we became fasci­ through the making of the film. Frank Robert Altman, not a standard director. nated with the thing. and I wrote St. Christopher's sermon at ALTMAN: 1 offered that part to Newman FF: An international cast works very well lunch one day and we shot it two days because I thought he was the right age for futuristic fantasy? later. for it. And he carries a certain amount of ALTMAN: That was the point. We'd al­ FF: Is this the case in all your other films: recognizability. To go with an unknown ways started with the idea that we were writing so close to the filming date? person in that part would have been diffi­ going to set the story out of time and ALTMAN: Mostly. It's almost a pattern cult, because the audience would have place. You weren't really ever going to that we've set up. We structure the film, to adjust to him. That would force me to know where you were. know what the obligations are, what's spend time telling about this new char­ FF: Had it been, had you thought of going to happen, what scenes are going acter, getting you to like him. Casting which directoryouwantedtohavedirect to take place. Onething'sgoingto follow Newman here is like casting Warren I't? . another. But we don't reallydialoguethe Beatty in McCabe and Mrs. Miller. It ALTMAN: I talked to Walter Hill about scenes until a few days before we actual­ saves me 20 minutes of exposition. B&­ writing and directing it. That didn't work ly shoot them. And sometimes the same cause the minute he comes in you know out, and he got onto The Driver. I never day. the film's about him. You know he's a w ent beyond that. I got very excited FF: What do the actors base their invol­ special person. The audience feeds that about It myself. vements on, then? Do then have a say in ln. I wanted the hero to be an American FF: Did the budget change when you de­ their costumes, in what their actions are because that's the largest audience cided to change the concept of the film? going to be? we're shooting for. And surrounding ALTMAN: Not a lot. I think the set costs ALTMAN: Well, it's all done in concert, him entirely with foreigners is a little went up. And wardrobe costs and things with on&-another. There's no formal way threatening itself. An audience feels that like that. But it didn't really affect the to describe it. It just takes place. I'm go­ way automatically. • deal in any way. ing to meet Jim Garner tomorrow night FF: You also create a certain air of ten­ FF: Was the casting .of the actors at all at a party at my house, and that's the last sion by having an international cast affected by the location, the change of time I'm going to see him until we're in playing against Newman. locations? Florida ready to shoot Health. We'll ALTMAN: That automatically throws ALTMAN: No. They never knew where it probably spend half an hour talking the audience into identifying with New­ was going to be. And they never kn ew about what I see as the character points. man. He becomes the tour guide, b&­ what the script was. And they were all He hasn't read the script yet, but I'm sure cause he's also strange to this world, cast on the basis of I wasgoingtomakea that between the two of us we'll come up having been away from it for 12 years. film with them. that's all. with an idea where we both agree on the Consequently, we depend on him. We ?7 go with him in everything he learns or anybody that it's too tough to follow. It's FF: Did the game come to you as part of sees. and what he doesn't understand very somple. You could draw the board the earlier script? we can kind of guess along with him. So on a sodewalk. and all you need is a pair ALTMAN: From the very begonning we Newman's casting is important. of doce to play it. I onvented the game. had people playing this game. the way FF: How do you differentiate nationali­ basing it on probability games like back­ you see people play backgammon in ties when you dub the film into other lan­ gammon. which I play a lot. certain places in Turkey, or mahjong in guages? FF: Would someone who's played the China. or dominoes in Mexico. And then ALTMAN : When we dub it. we won't be game of Quintet appreciate the film at one point or another I called the game able to use accents. so we have to do it more? Quintet. And then I said, "Well. now we with language. I had a meeting in Paris ALTMAN: Oh. yes. And also they'd getol have to have a game that works. " I mean three weeks ago. I took the film over quicker. It's very clear. almost too clear. people. even if we're not teaching the there and got all the translators in. We audience how to play. know whether decided to write very strange theatrical somebody's really doing something or language for the different characters. Robert Altman (at not. So I invented the game. Even though the actors who do the dub­ right) and Vittorio FF: What was the mood you were trying bing will be speaking pure French. Ital­ Gassman on the set to evoke at the beginning of Quintet? ian or whatever. they'll still give the feel­ of Quintet. Total isolation? ing that what they're saying isn't in con­ ALTMAN: Yeah. I was setting up what temporary language. and is being said condition the world was in. When the differently from the other actors. film opens up. we're up above the tree FF: Do you also make an effort to differ­ line. with nothing but frozen wasteland. entiate Newman in his rough costume and here os this modern traon. You don't and weapons? really know ol's a train untol you reach a ALTMAN : Oh sure. Sure. He's been in certain poont. but it tells you this is not the wilderness hunting for 12 years. 1 Nanook ofthe North. But that there's a mean it's the same thing as a western. train, and it's obviously been frozen in The guy comes into town after being for God knows how long. And then you gone for a long time and the town's see these people walking. And then we changed and he's the hero. So he's in take them onto this first sheller. Which. pragmatic clothing. His weapon also­ again, has a futuristic look to it. so you when he comes in it's a hand-made know that you're in some tome. In other spear for killing seals. When he goes and words. it's to orient you to the disorienta- chases the Redstone in the beginning. tion. · the spear has been broken in the explo­ FF: Futuristic primeval? sion. but he breaks it off and uses it as a ALTMAN: Yes. knife. At the end of the picture you see it FF: You use a model for the train. Have strapped on to a shaft as a spear again, you often worked with monoatures? but I wanted it to look like a World War I First you have a killing order. There ALTMAN: I never have. bayonet. · are five players in the front game. Each FF: This is your first? How did you go FF: Wasthereagreat deal of effort to give player has a person he can kill and a per­ about choosing the miniatures? each of the characters an individual son he can be killed by. And those that ALTMAN: We just called a train com­ look? are in between he can only form an alli­ pany that had a model of a train and ALTMAN : Oh. yes. There's a great deal ance woth. The sixth space is a safety asked them to send it up. andweputwax of thought that goes to paint those char­ place. but it's kind of a false safety be­ on it and took it out and froze it in the ice. acters for the audience. We ended up cause you can't stay in there. You must Did some tests on the distance the peo­ with a medieval look. but it wasn't really come out with the next roll. So t here's a ple'should be and shot it. our intention. We just figured they'd lot of terrific tactics. FF: The perspective was all done have cloth of some kind, but nothing It's like backgammon. I can teach you through experomentation? very unusual because there's obviously the rules in a second and it's kind of bor­ AlTMAN: And logic. It dodn't cost any­ no manufacturing going on. Everything ing until you play for a while. but the thing. It was the cheapest specoal effect lying around would be remade into more you play, the better it gets. that's ever been done. clothing. FF: When we discussed the screenplay FF: After the opening landscape when FF: The weapons as well? It looks like you said it changed direction when you there's nothing but the train and the peo­ Goldstar uses a carving knife that's been saw the location. Had you seen a num­ ple. you introduce their first shelter. honed down to the nubbin. Gregor has ber of locations before that or was it AlTMAN: That's some kind of outpost I what looks like a long sewing needle. something that formed on your mind? guess. as they're traveling to the city. ALTMAN: That was a sewing awl. We ALTMAN: No. it was a gradual thing. We And they stop there for the night. tried not to make anything up. We took started out by looking at the underbelly FF: Why don't you ever show the big the position that everything had to be of the city. And then as we found these city? made from something else. And it be­ other locations we said. "Jeez, could we AlTMAN: I didn't want to show the city came our standard policy. Gregor's use a place like that. That's very wierd­ because if I'd shown it l'd've had to build weapon was also his cash register. and looking ... maybe this could work." And a model of it. And the train os something he used the hole at the top to hang it up. then eventually the idea developed onto you can look at and you know it's a train FF: What about the other weapons? this futuristic thing. We said. "Why not because you've seen trains before. I I I Anything specific? take the same story and set it in this time showed you the city, you would see ALTMAN : That Germanic three­ of depression or depravity." Because something that you had never seen be­ pronged spear that St. Christopher had the story didn't work. it wouldn't work fore. and you would consequently not at the end-.we used that because it had unless there were desperate human believe it. It would look toke a model. So a kind of religious sense toit.ltwas just a conditions going on. It needed some the only part of the city you see is that design that appealed to us because he sort of political expediency. So. okay, so frozen bridge and them coming toward kind of represents the church au thority you're in the Irish underground or you're you. And then that entrance kind of en­ - the Pope. in the Jewish underground, or you're in ded up in a sort of network. And I just FF: Quintet is a game within a film. much Iran, and all that kind of crap. and every­ never wanted to show the perimeter of like a circus within a film. or anything thing's patriotic-then we suddenly de­ anything. I leave that to your imagina­ else in the Allman family of movies­ cided to take the human condition to a tion, because if I had shown you what it something within a film that supports it. point of total desperation and do it strict­ looked like. the magic would have been And yet the rules of the game are never ly for its adrenal qualities. That's how it gone. Instead. we used the information clearly explained. really developed to where it is as Ouin­ center to give an idea of the size and ALTMAN : We haven't had any flak from tet. complexity of the city. 28 FF: Did you have any major production take place? film's structure depends on where the difficulties in terms of the cotd? ALTMAN: My feeling was that it was an importance of the structure is. ALTMAN: No. we prepared very well for above-ground area that was at one time FF: There's a certain thread of violence the fitm. We anticipated problems, and probably a park. that has run through your films. And you then we solved them all. I knew we were FF: When you're shooting under those have dealt with violence in a most real­ going to have accidents. I expected we conditions in the Arctic. is it much more istic fashion. In Quintet you don't, like would have broken tour legs. hopefully difficult to use the cameras? the sewing needle through the head. or not a back. but only one guy broke his ALTMAN: No. once you get below freez­ where Ouca pushes in the knife. Do you toot on the ice. That was my son. One ing. it's just a matter of comfort. You have any feeling at all about what this guy slipped into the water once. and we have to keep the moving parts at a cer· might mean at the box office? got him out and his clothes froze on him tain temperature by heating them. It ALTMAN: I don't know. I wouldn't think and we couldn't get him out of his so, because I don't think it's real vio­ clothes because they froze solid. And we lence. It's ketchup violence, it's fairy tale got him into a car and he went into The film crew with violence. I don't think it's like' seeing a shock. But he was all right. So we had no the protected camera street gang cut off a guy's ear. or like in fatalities. and no dogs were hurt. We in the frozen north of The Deer Hunter, where a guy blows his didn't lose any. We lost a couple of days Frobisher Bay. brains out. We separated the reality. I shooting because we had a bigthawone would think the violence would prob· night and everything melted. We could ably be the most repugnant with the not shoot until it froze again. dogs. and probably the woman burning FF: The sets are just beautiful. How did her hand. you achieve the ice palace look? FF: The throat slitting? ALT MAN:We just froze it. We had hoses. ALTMAN: Well. that's the worst because and we had a crew of guys who spent all it's so graphic. And it happens up front. night t here spraying water. When we'd It's not expected. but I .think that was get ready to shoot in an area we'd just necessary to let you know that could turn 'em on. and we could never stop happen so that from that point on in the them. Because if you'd ever stop the film, you're sitting there saying, "Oh. Je­ hoses then they'd freeze. and you'd nev­ sus. what's going to happen next. and is er get them unthawed. So that water was it going to be worse?" running out o f fire hoses 24 hours a day. 1 think this cry about violence that has And we just moved them around. We had come up in the world is a little bit of a par· to be careful about the amount of ice we allel to our political liberalism. which be­ put on certain things because of the comes a popular cause. I mean I don't weight. believe there's any validity to it. I don't FF: I could only compare it to McCabe think there's anything wrong with it. I and Mrs. Miller. think that we deal with violence allot our ALTMAN: Well. we froze that town in doesn' t make a hell of a d ifference lives. You have to have it. McCabe for the chase. When it started to whether it's zero or 70 below. because It's like sports have an importance. snow we went out w ith hoses that night. your freezing temperature's still 32°. play with children has importance, When he came out that first time, that FF: The packs of scavenger dogs that board toys are. 1 think. as valid as dolls. I city looked like a Christmas card. Just cohabit the city seemed very well trained. mean I don't see anything wrong with it. beautiful. You can't deny the reality of it. How many did you use and how well As I say. it's something that reminds me That much ice on the screen all the time. did they take to the cold? of fairy tales. And fairy tales were cer­ constantly seeing the actors' breath ALTMAN: We had 20 dogs t hat we got tainly violent. The wor::;t piece of vio­ works on you whether you know it or not. and trained here. We took them up there lence I ever saw in a film was when Bam­ I mean people literally do get cold months early, got them acclimated to bi's mother got killed. watching the film. And you can fake al· the cold, worked them in the cold. and FF: A number of your films deal with most anything. in terms othardwareand we had them there the whole time. gambling. more so than any other direc­ science fiction and special effects. But FF: Were you locked into a specific plot­ tor. It seems almost a pet subject, of when you see that ice there you kn'owit's line here. one that couldn't be shifted yours. California Split. the football game real. And the very sense of that reality around much in the editing stage? in M'A 'S'H. McCabe and Mrs. Miller. pulls you into the thing. ALTMAN: Because of thegamequalities and now Quintet. The gambling is more FF: You went and shot for three days in of the film it has to follow a certain order. thoroughly integrated here. the Arctic Circle. Was that with New­ I couldn't shift sc.enes around, have Ou­ ALTMAN: It's part ot a lot of the way I man? ca killed before Goldstar because it think about films. Those things attract ALTMAN: And Brigitte Fosse and Vit­ would have violated the order. It's not me. McCabe was a two-bit gambler. a t in torio Gassman. like A Perfect Couple. where I'm able to horn. a big fish in a little pond. a jerk. Ca­ FF: Where did you shoot that? shift scenes back and forth because the lifornia Split was about gambling. about ALTMAN: Frobisher Bay. order o f events is not necessarily impor­ gamblers. people who are totally ob· FF: How high up? tant. or has an importance. But each film sessed with it and nothing else. It even ALTMAN: It's above Hudson Bay in the has its own thing. A Wedding has a cer­ replaces sex. Up in Las Vegas. if you in­ Northwest Territory in Canada. 80 mites tain order at the end. but we were able to terview all the hookers, you'll find the below the Arc tic Circle. shift around a lot. Nashville we could only action they get is from the losers. If FF: When you're scouting tor that sort of shift anything. almost. But aside from a the guy is winning he ain't interested. location. it's a hell of a lot different fro m logical plot construction there is also an The loser just says. "Well, what the hell, what you were doing in McCabe and emotional construction. I mean you it's a kind of present to myself." Mrs. Miller where you have your chase in don't do three depressing scenes in a FF: It just seems there's a progression in the snowstorm. row and then do a hilarious one. You can the gambling you've covered i n your ALTMAN: We had the chase in the snow­ not follow a scene that's emotional im­ films. In M 'A 'S'H it was very loose. un­ storm because it snowed at the same mediately with another that's hysterical­ structured. In McCabe it was st ill just a time we were getting ready to do the ly funny if the same people are in it. part of the story. In California Split it be· chase. On Quintet. we went up because You've got to allow some space in there. came an obsession, but now in Quintet, we could not find a large enough ex­ So to me the emotional plot structure is it's their whole life and their death as panse in Montreal. We had the lakes. but more important than the logical plot well. It's highly structured. yet you never no matter where you went somewhere structure. show a full game in the film. Neverthe­ you'd see a tree line. So we went up FF: Would you say Quintet is your most less. it seems there are very few moves. above the tree line. structured film in a linear sen se? it's gotten down to the point where it's FF: Where was the fight supposed to ALTMAN: Yeah, probably it is, but each very sharply deli ned, and over very 29 quickly. will appear on the set and I say, "Jeez, ALTMAN: Well, it is aquickergame. But That's perfect, how did they arrive at again it served a purpose. I used those that?" And it's filtered down, the whole elements for my own devices, but we're mood of the thing, and it's as important never dealing with content. Content is that that remain unnamed as it is that the unimportant. An artist deals with style. keeps turning and reflecting and we philosophy remain unnamed. It's impor­ Content's already there. If I did have could make it look like it was once pro­ tant that you don't intellectualize it, anything important to say I'd be a fool to jection or something like that." These "This means thisandthatmeans that,"to say it, because I could pick up a book things are not run by power, just free­ where you can look at something and and find it somewhere else, and said a lot swinging on their axles. We really went you can say "That's not quite right," and better, no matter what my thought was. for a reflective, visual kind of thing. We you don't even have to explain why. So the idea of my work is the style. That's took maps that we found there with FF: The visual styles of your films vary a what I'm dealing in. Sty le. those pentagon shapes on them and just great deal. You have had the lush coun­ FF: Is gambling the underlying element silk screened them onto a bunch of plex­ tryside and now you have the ice palace . in your film making? iglas. Tied them together with a continu­ of this, again, after McCabe. Is this ALTMAN: Let me give you an example ous bicycle chain so when you turn one something that's thought out and plan­ without having to go into this too much: the others would turn. The lighting of it ned in advance? had the train not worked in the opening was the real art-when it wasn't lit prop­ A.L TMAN : Yes. It's everything that I just there's no way I would have gone to any erly that set by itself was nothing. said. I'm talking about that as well as the special effects to make it work. I would FF: When you're working out the overall costumes. have done something else. I wantto do it visual design of a film do you have one When we went to Mississippi to shoot this way and ill can'tdoitthisway l'm not person other than you who works as Thieves Like Us, I wouldn't take an going to call up and say"Send mea mil­ central computer to make certain that American cameraman down there. lion dollars and I'll do something else." the props, sets, costumes, locations, the Everybody I talked to was prejudiced That's what-you set kind of an impos­ look of the actors, makeup and so forth against it. "Oh, that old place, I don't sible goal for yourself. And I think it's got are all meshed together or is that all fil­ want to go down." "The South, that's so to be either scary, wh ich again is a tered through you? terrible." I went and got a guy out of gambling thing, or a situation where at ALTMAN: It all filters through me. I use France who would go down and look at first you think, "Jeez, how'd I get into any number of people. We kind of mutu­ this as being as beautiful as it really is in this?" Then you get to the point wherE ally come to a decision of the look ofthe Mississippi. He didn't have that preju­ you say, "I don'tthink I can do it." Finally, film. But the cameraman is one thing. I dice, and that way everybody else fol­ you ask, "Can we really pull it off?" And work with him till we arrive at the point lowed. In other words, that broke the you try, because that's the only time you where we decide what we'll do. And then thing of everybody having to agree and are really forced to be creative. I don't pay any more attention to it. The say, " Oh, that's a terrible part of the FF: Is that part of the reason why you're girl who does our wardrobe works very country." Well it is a terrible part of the so prolific? closely with me on all stages. She works country. But the grass and the trees and ALTMAN: Probably. Also I don't over­ on the script, she sits in on meetings, she the rivers don't have to be terrible. The think these things. I have more fun when also does the casting. And whether she idea of what takes place in that kind of a I'm shooting a film than when I'm not designs the wardrobe or brings some­ lush setting compounds it. If we make making a film. So whynotdowhat pleas­ body in, whether she buys it, however everything ugly, what's the picture es me the most? she does it, doesn't make any difference. about? FF: Does it come as a surprise to be the Tommy Thompson and BobEggenweil­ FF: In Quintet, did you decide to use a most proiific film director in the ler will get together on the locations. We specific stock and lenses to obtain your country? all work together so much that it's very grays and whites, dark shadows and dim ALTMAN: Does it come as a surprise? easy to communicate. We try to com­ lights? Oh, I don't think I am at all. municate feelings rather than specific ALTMAN: No. We had special filters FF: We think you are. ideas. built for it. The lenses we used were ALTMAN: For feature films. But not for FF: Do you ever just put yourfootdown? zoom lenses. We decided not to go ana­ television. ALTMAN: We finally got that in Quintet morphic with the film because what we FF: The Information Center is a beautiful where Leon Ericksen, who is the pro­ call the "0" filter, the edge filter, on the set. How was it arrived at? duction designer, didn't want to use red. Panavision screen, looked mechanical ALTMAN: We found this room with all I did. So we used red. There are certain somehow, where on the other screen it the outside two-way glass in it. It wasn't things that I thought of doing that Leon had a more natural feeling to it. So we really that big. And then we said, "Let's didn't want to do, we did it Leon's way. went 1.85: 1. use this for something." And then we But once I makethosedecisions, I have a FF: I noticed many of the shots seemed said, "Okay, this could be the informa­ whole group of hidden artists working to be almost irised out with vaseline. tion center." "And what could we do in for me. People whose faces I never see, AL TMAN:·That's the filter. What we there?" And I said, "Let's put in stuff that quite possibly. Andsuddenlysomething called the "0" filter, that we built specifi- 30 (Continued on Page 35) (Continued from Page 30) cally for this picture. I spend $27,000 on want to rush in and see the next night. those filters. They're downstairs right AboM lett, Ambros .. (Bibl Now, there are certain films that lose, now, and I don't know if those filters will Andenon) end Duca (Ninll Van that go the other way. You see them the ever be used again. Pallandt) cn-111e ways of the second time, you say, "Wait a minute, FF: Were you trying to focus the eye to post-war world. Above right, Paul this thing isn't quite as good." Z, for in­ center screen? Newman a E-x dlg1 Into the stance. Z 1 thought was a fantastic film ALTMAN: Yes. I was trying to never nm shelter of lite~ the first time I saw it, the second tio,'e show the audience the perimeter of the remainder of lhelr world. through I didn't like it as much. And the film. Keep you in a kind of interior claus­ third time I didn't like it at all. I'm not cri­ trophobia. A residual eftectwegotoutof ticizing that film, but you don't know it was that we found we could make peo­ ALTMAN: I think it's true of any film. I how those things are going to work on pleapp,ear and disappear right in front of think any film is meaningless with one individuals. your eyes. I mean they don't leave the screening. I don't think a lot of people FF: Aller I saw Quintet, I wrote down the hard sharp frame when they walk out. are going to see the film morethanonce, films that struck a similar chord in me in They walk toward the edge and they just but 1also think that the firsttimeyou see the past. The first was Hawks' The Big disappear. The same way those dogs a film you have certin anticipations and Sleep. That had so many textures to it come up. They just appear. It helps the options that you're conditioned to be­ that I've seen it maybe20times now, bull cold because it gives you that kind of cause of other things you've seen. And still can't figure it out. sensation of looking through a frosted so you're always wondering, "Who did ALTMAN: Neither could Raymond windowpane. That was a bonus for us it?" "Did the butler do it or what?" And Chandler or anybody else. too. But, you see, we shot tests up there than at the end you find out and you've FF: 1also thought The 10th Victim, bore for two weeks. Full days. With thecrews, been so concerned with playing this comparison. just getting the cameras to work, and the guessing game that's imposed on you as ALTMAN: Quintet has a lot of The 10th zoom lenses. And those filters-we had audience that you've missed half the Victim kind ofleeling about it. I didn'tsee a huge umbilical cord coming outott hat film. the picture but I know the story line and camera. Now, once you know how it all came to me, that was the most dangerous FF: Why did filters cost that much? out, you know who did or didn't do it, comparison that would be applied to the ALTMAN: Because we had to design then you can go back and see that same film. and manufacture them. film and you see an entirely differenttilm FF: We know you didn't want to get into FF: Ground glass? because you're relaxed. Then· you can discussing this, but when your charac­ ALTMAN: It's a different process. In go backathirdorfourthtime, depending ters say things like: "Life is merely a other words-everybody says it looks on the density otthe film, and start look­ pause, an interruption, in the void that like when you spread vaseline, but you ing atotherthings in it. You findoutthere preceeds and follows it," aren't you kind have no control over that. But this had to are many, manythingsgoingonthatyou of asking an audience to think about it? take the light in and diffuse it in a certain never saw before. Then you can wait six ALTMAN: That's a religious dogma. St. manner, actually a billion little lenses in months and go back and see the film Christopher represents the Pope. He's there. It's very complicated. Many of again. And you'll see a different film be­ every clergyman, every cult leader ever those had to be made, tested, perfected, cause of what's happened in your life in born. · and then graded. Then we had to build a that six months. And that's what makes it FF: "Everytimeyoudefeat deathyou feel thing that changed the distance olthose art. alive." That's Gregor's philosophy? filters. They had to be in differentsizes to I mean, take pictures that hang on the ALTMAN: That's the game's philoso­ the different lenses. And they had to wall. You can lookatthemonceandsay, phy. That's the philosophy of Gregor .. . move with the zoom lens. "Oh, that's a terrific picture," or, "That's a pessimistic philosophy. And Essex FF:So it was not a zoom lens, but on the really funny," and you go away, and does not buy it. He says, "I am going zoom principal? other times you look at it in an entirely North.' Gregor tells him there's nothing ALTMAN:No.lfwewereonazoom lens, different manner, and if you never tire of there. He says, "You won't last a day and we would zoom in toward the filter, so as that picture, it's art. There's nothing a half. You'll freeze to death." Essex . we zoomed in, that filter had to be high-falutin' abO\)t art, art is the lowest says, "You may know that but I don't." mechanically moved further away from common demoninator of communica­ And that's the human spirit-that's the the lens. and the reverse when we tion that we have. Everybody has it. But decision-no matter how stupid it is. zoomed out. Wehadoneguywhoseonly what really makes it is the change in it. A FF: And what happens to Essex when he job was to look alter the filters. film's the same way. goes North? FF: Do you think that a mass audience FF: What films do you think ofthat way? ALTMAN: I am fully convinced he's fro­ will pick up enough of the film to want to ALTMAN: All films. I saw The Deer Hun­ zen to death outthere right now, and that see it again to want to pick up on the ter and I guarantee I haven't seen The world is absolutely silent and gone, but game? Deer Hunter. It's not the kind of film I as Essex said, he didn't know. • 35