The Ride_Jacob Barry

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[00:01:00] Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the ride. This is Nicole, and this is Jillian. And today, uh, our, uh, our podcast is going to be interviewing Jacob Barry. Uh, before we kind of talk about Jake a little bit, uh, just wanted to make a note that in this interview, McKayla is actually interviewing him with me.

This was pre recorded. So while Jillian is here doing the introduction with me, she was not part of the interview. Uh, it was still McKayla. So we just wanted to give everybody a heads up on that. But Jake is a really fun guy. I got to meet him in March. When I took a couple horses down to Arizona. My friend has some of her, her family has some of their young horses and training with Jake and he trains out of the same facility as Brad Barga Meyer, who is obviously a horse and rider on demand [00:02:00] expert and a long-time contributor to the magazine.

So I've, I've had the, uh, joy of hanging out with Jake and kind of getting, you know, riding advice from him. He was on the cover of our summer issue. So it, by now anybody who buys the magazine should have that issue in hand. Um, so we also did a feature with him on how many days is enough. He, uh, Jake is a really well known star, or he, he breaks out young horses for some of those cow horse reining cutting guys in the country.

Um, and he's, he's a busy guy. So he also shows in the cow horse, but a majority of his business is working with really young horses. It was, which I think is super important because we talk about the importance of foundation, you know, letting a horse kind of figure out. You know what they're doing, not putting too much pressure on them, you know, understanding that their bodies are growing and changing and, and they might not be collected.

They might not know how to carry themselves. Like [00:03:00] just, just kind of really understanding what the horse is needing from you as a trainer. But the article is great because, you know, I don't think a lot of people realize when they send a horse, a young horse to a Colt starter or a trainer there's so much that goes into, you know, preparing your horse for the fundamentals, for whatever event that you plan on competing in. And it's not just. Throwing a saddle on him and riding, you know, he talks about the importance of groundwork, you know, teaching your horse, you know, what you want out of him on the ground before getting on, you know, starting in a round pen before graduating to the arena. Uh, we talk about, you know, he takes all of his horses into the desert because he wants to get them acclimated to different atmospheres and not just be in the show pen, uh, you know, dragging a log, uh, just, just desensitizing them to the world around them.

So, uh, Jake is a lot of fun. I really enjoyed this interview. I know Jillian, you probably don't know much about Jake outside of what you've heard from the interview and read in the magazine, [00:04:00] but, um, you know, we're, I am super excited for this interview, but anyway, before we kind of dive into that, that interview, um, Jillian, what's going on, uh, in your world, I know that you are now at the APH world, Joe, you just left the Pinto world show not too long ago.

So you're kind of bouncing around the country. I am. Yeah, so we, uh, left Tulsa a few days ago and it's about a five-hour drive. So we came over now we're in Fort worth. So, um, the NPHA world shows off to a good start. Um, we're about halfway through, I think so, um, one cool thing that's going on here is the IAA Western nationals is going to be hosted in conjunction with the world show.

So, um, it'll be a good place. Like there'll be a lot of bio sources that they get to use that are already here at the world show competing. And so that'll be fun. Um, I'm going a kind of follow follow it and, um, [00:05:00] work with some of the writers and some of the coaches and get some insights. So, um, I'm pretty excited about that.

I think it will be the, a good. Um, event. Yeah, you've mentioned, you know, all the nice horses that are at the world so that these kids get to use, uh, the people, the kids who are, who are competing in this are using donated horses. So a lot of the people that are currently competing at the world show are donating their, their horses for this particular event.

Um, and I think, you know, as a Jillian also has experience doing the collegiate team stuff, uh, she did the IHSA, I did the NCAA. Um, but you know, a lot of those horses that we get stuck riding are never like, you know, some of them don't get me wrong. There are a few that I will always remember, and they were fantastic horses.

And, you know, they just had tiny little quirks about them, which is why they were donated. But. You know, for the most part, there's a reason that these horses get donated. Um, so you are, you are stuck riding horses that are complicated [00:06:00] and require patience and understanding, and you, you know, you learn a lot on these worlds.

Sometimes it's really fun to just get on a really nice show horse and be able to do those maneuvers at a high level of difficulty. So these kids are so lucky they're ready. Some of the top paint horses in the country, and you know, they're getting to go to the world show and compete in the special events.

So I'm excited to see how. Yeah, me too. It's it's going to be really fun to watch. So, um, another thing that just, uh, went on was the NRA shade Derby. I'm so excited Trevor to Erewhon um, on this horse, uh, his nickname is Hercules' and this horse is a crazy stopper. I mean, I've never seen a horse stop like him before I am obsessed.

Uh, I've known Trevor for a very long time. We both grew up in the Midwest, uh, showing on the quarter horse circuit together. At one point he did the all around. He's actually like a reserve world champion in the horsemanship. Um, so. Before his raining career started. [00:07:00] Um, but anyways, it was really exciting to see, you know, somebody that I grew up with doing well.

Uh, hopefully we'll have him on the podcast. I'll have to reach out to him and see if, if he wants to do it. Um, but we've done stuff with him for the magazine. So if, uh, if you haven't read the articles that we've done with Trevor, go to the website, check them out. Uh, you know, maybe you can get a couple of tips from the newest NRHH Derby, winter.

We were driving past Oklahoma city and we saw like the signs for the Derby on the way from Tulsa to Texas. And I was like, oh, can we just like pull in there, make a little side, stop for a minute. But so, but that was exciting. Um, he, he crushed it. Yeah. Yeah. The Derby is such a fun event. It's, it's one of my favorite events to go to.

I used to, uh, I was the managing editor of the NRA, Jay Rayner for a while, a little bit. Um, And so I always got to go to these big events to cover it and write about it. And, uh, I tell ya, I had S I love the Derby and I love the paternity. There's [00:08:00] just such a cool atmosphere about it. And that arena gets so loud during the finals.

I bet. Yeah. I can't imagine the atmosphere in there. It's probably so much fun. So anyway, I'm kind of going off that let's kick off this interview.

Hi everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the ride. This episode, we are joined with Jacob Barry, who is a professional Colt starter, and we heard about him through, uh, our friends, the Titans who Nicole rides with and I ride with. And so anyway, we started to work with Jacob and we really loved, um, all of the things that he's doing.

So hi Jacob, and thanks for joining. Thanks for having me good to be here. Yeah. So we really like to just start at the beginning here and figure out where your horse journey started. I know I'm kind of familiar with [00:09:00] it, but let our listeners know where it all began. Uh, my, uh, grandfather owned, um, corridors, race horses, and, uh, it started me down a rough road in the horse industry.

Um, no matter how hard I tried to get away from it, it kept pulling me back, um, kinda was, uh, just, uh, no offense to the rodeo Cowboys out there, but I was just kind of a dumb rodeo cowboy through my college years and then kinda, uh, needed some side money and started working for some horse trainers on the side.

And then it's all history after that. So, yeah, I know one of my favorite things that you told me in one of our conversations is like the fact that you had a steer wrestling horse that was also a calf roping horse and coming from a rodeo background. I'm like, that is just so impressive. Well, I was able to keep her pretty, uh, pretty good by, uh, you know, one box meant one thing the other side meant the other thing. And, uh, [00:10:00] I, I wasn't able to Loper much, uh, I had to pony her with my head horse, but, uh, other than that, she was pretty good. He was x-ray's horse a little while, but yeah, it worked. So you said you got your start in the racing with your grandfather being in the quarter horse racing. What, what were you doing there?

Were you helping at the barn? Were you riding? Uh, you know, I was pretty young. Uh, some of my older cousins got a lot more opportunity to learn and, uh, kinda grow. Um, I mean, it's just like a little kid being around the barn, you know, I picked stalls did that, did this, um, got to help, uh, later on with a few of the, you know, Colts that he was bringing up, but I kinda caught him at the end of the career, but it's kind of like one of those things, you know, your grandpa did it and you aspire to, you know, he was, he was my, uh, he was like a [00:11:00] father to me, more than a grandfather.

I spent a lot of time with him as a young kid. And so, yeah, that's really cool though. I mean, you're obviously a generational rider. Your family goes back several generations with the horses. So that's really cool that you're able to kind of continue that tradition and be in that industry. I know my, my great grandfather was a horse trainer and my grandfather was a farmer.

And so it's cool to know that, like, you know, the generations before you were doing, you know, loving the same thing with the horses and riding, and you know, now you're competing, you're doing the cow horse stuff, the performance horse stuff, and doing quite well. I might add. Um, so yeah, it's just a really neat start.

Yeah. Thanks. Uh, yeah, it just didn't my, my whole family, they're still into horses. My aunt, they, my aunt and uncle, they race horses. Uh, my cousins who she's like a sister to me, she races horses still. They raise them. Uh, they do, and they do really good. My aunt and uncle, they, I mean, they, they kicked butt in the quarter [00:12:00] horse racing deal.

And the last couple of years they've had like the high money earning a quarter horse, like Philly or stead of the year, you know, won over a couple of hundred thousand. And it, yeah. So, well, you know, you say they're kicking butt over there, but you're kicking some butt in the show pen. So do you want to talk about, you know, some of the things that you're doing in the show pen and like what drew you to the cow horse specifically?

Uh, yeah, so, uh, when I first, you know, out of college, I went to work for a horse trainer and actually doing, uh, rope horses and, uh, I, he also did cow horses, his name's Jay Holmes. He's down in Sarasota. And after I kinda just got a little taste of the cow horse, I just saw the horsemanship involved and always aspired to, you know, have the better horse than the next guy.

Cause I kinda come from, even though my family had horses, I always had the rejects. You know, I had the horses, a guy had to work [00:13:00] on or, you know, you had to make it yourself. So I was always looking for the next best thing. And I kinda got into the cow horse that way. And I ended up working for smokey Pritchett.

He's a cow horse hall of Famer for five years. And then I worked for Corey Cushing, who is, he's kind of the man. I, you know his name coincides with cow horse, no matter what you talk about. I worked for him for four years and uh, I've been on my own for a couple of years, but uh, I've got some really good customers.

Um, I acquired a little coal. He was home raised here in Arizona. By a veterinarian and her name's DIA Heshin, uh, he's a Kit-Kat sugar out of a really good Shiner mare that won a couple of world titles in the cow horse. And, uh, I just lucky to have a good horse. And I made the open finals at the snaffle bit last year.

And I just got home this weekend from a little Derby and Paso Robles and made the open finals on them there. And [00:14:00] what does reserve in the intermediate? And he just, we, uh, we nicknamed him beer money, cause he always pulls off a little cash everywhere he goes. So it has been a lot of fun. That's a really good name.

Um, so you said you worked for like all these big time cow horse people, uh, most recently before you went on your own Corey Cushing, uh, yeah, like you said, he's definitely the name, you know, that goes with the cow horse right now. What, you know, what did you learn from him? And when did you kind of realize, like, this is the time that I should start and go out on my own and, and, you know, continue my career, um, as you know, your own business, essentially.

So, you know, I, I started with smokey and it was funny because I smokey taught me a ton. And I know you asked a question about Corey, but smokey taught me like all my foundation and it, it, it was a rough five years. He, I mean, I was, I knew how to [00:15:00] ride and I had horsemanship and I understood cattle from rope and, and stuff, but I, it smoky train cutters and cowards.

Uh, I mean, he bless his heart. He probably was more patient with me than some people, you know, would have been, but he, uh, he really got me a good foundation on just, just simple stuff, you know, just basic feel and just how to get around some wild horses and this and that. And everybody asked me when I moved to Corey's like, oh, it's gotta be so much different.

It's so much different. Cause Smokey's a little more old school. Corey's got that new look and style. And honestly it wasn't any different, maybe just the thought process behind the same maneuver. Like just, just changing the feel of it a little bit or, or just maybe how you think about something, but everything stayed the same.

And a lot of people don't get that. I mean, at the end of the [00:16:00] day, there's only one way to go left and only one way to go. Right. And if you pull on the reins, they got to stop, you know, it's just. But, you know, Corey Corey kind of polished me up and gave me a lot of confidence and you know, I really, I, even, when I went out on my own, I wasn't sure about it.

You know, it wasn't until the second year I was on my own. I was like, oh yeah, this is a great thing. You know, it's, it's always skeptical. And you know, I'd advise anybody who wanting to do it. Like I put, I put nine years in as an assistant, you know, and that gave me a ton of confidence when I did get out of my own. Cause if I have, if I have problems, you know, I feel like I have an answer. I got an answer in my toolbox to solve it. You know, I can pull out that hammer, that ranch and all right, let's go to work and fix it like this. And, and it's, you know, I have a lot of friends that maybe didn't work for somebody as long, and I'm constantly getting phone calls on, Hey, what do I do here?

What do I do here? And it's like, really? You don't, you know, they don't know how to fix that. So, [00:17:00] but you know, I I'd really recommend anybody to stick it out. If you. I think that's huge, uh, because it's so many, so many young people who are just getting into the horse industry as professionals, they just want to get out on their own and they don't want to start winning and they want to have the best horses.

And, you know, unfortunately that's not normally the path that happens unless you maybe come from a family who's really well known and is able to provide you with that, you know, the horses and the clients and all that, but that's not very normal. And I think it's so true that you have to go and, and work for somebody to really, truly understand all of it.

And, you know, not even just the horse training side of things, but the business side of things, you know, learning how they're able to run a business and, and keep it going. And, you know, there's so much that goes into horse training and only one small part of it is the actual horse training. Yeah. It just in the do's and don'ts, you know, like you learn what you really like and then maybe [00:18:00] what doesn't fit you.

You know, one thing I, I feel like I really took away from Korea's presentation. Like, I, I feel like when I show up with my horses, like they stand above a lot of people's cars. They're, they're slipped off, they're fat, they're pretty. And, and their presentables on the Chopin, you know, they just, and they stand out and, you know, coming, working for them guys, as long as I did also, it, you know, I got a lot, I got a good reputation.

And so when I did start out on my own, I started with nice horses. You know, people, people saw the good job I did for, you know, I worked for DT horses for a little while, right after Corey's, uh, starting some Colts, uh, that Kelby Phillips ended up showing he did really good on them. Cults. I started and then Corey had done really good on them.

Cults. I started and smokey had done really good on them. Cults. I started in, everybody saw me at the shows, putting in really hard work. I mean, I'd go [00:19:00] above and beyond every time. Stall and the front of the stalls, the concrete was immaculate. You know, I'd spray it off a 10 tending the tack rooms and stuff.

So people see that and you know, they, they recognize that and they keep an eye on you and, you know, see where your show care, show careers going. And they, when you do get on it on your own, they really put a lot of faith in you. So, yeah, I know Nicole and I actually talk about presentation a lot or like, you know, coming from.

Came from an all around background and showing horses and we're like, you know, presentation is huge and sometimes we'll go places and it's like, oh wow, that's kind of lacking or things like that. So we totally understand how important it is. And actually, I think I'll let Nicole talk about it, but she was actually going to write about how, you know, somebody saw something in her that like, oh wow, you were willing to put in the work and the hard work and the hours and the time to make sure things looked good.

[00:20:00] And that translates over to your horses. And a lot of people see that, especially the professionals who are going to send you in clients who are going to send you home. Yeah, that's, that's always been huge for me because I came from the world of you had the matching stall curtains, and everybody had magic holders and everybody had blankets.

And, you know, and then obviously in the, all around the outfit, presentations, important hat shape, you know, all the fine details, clipping your horse and, you know, blacking feet and all that stuff. Granted, I don't do all of that in the cow horse now. Um, but you know, it still translates over. I was cleaning my TAC at like the small local level of cow horse show, my first one.

And everybody's like, what are you doing? And I was like, know, don't you guys clean the tack before you go with like, that's something I do. I don't know. Yeah. I'm, I'm big on, you know, like stall curtains, like Corey did them and I think they're cool. Um, usually maybe in of. Up in calmer. They put me in the back [00:21:00] anyway, you know, nobody sees my stall, so I tend not to waste too much time with the curtains, but, and then we're going a little too fast, probably for some puff black, but I'm sure, you know, clip them horses.

I want them to be slick. I'm I'm crazy about them being full. Like I always have a grass hay net hung in front of them, show horses just to where they always got food in front of them. They're never out. They always can free graze and be fat and happy. You know, my grandpa used to say the prettiest color on horses, fat, you know, I think you can go overboard on that.

But, uh, you just, when you walk into that show pen and that horse stands out, them guys are watching yet. You know, them judges, they sit up, they, they start paying attention. If you come in and your horse looks sloppy, they they're, you're already starting off bad. And is it, the owners are happy, you know, and other people notice and then pretty quick that sometimes snowballs into more horses and it's, it's always, you know, it's [00:22:00] and you'll get compliments going around the horse show.

Like, man, your horse is like, great. Your horses are great. You know? So it stands out, well, you say it sometimes snowballs into more horses, but, uh, from our conversation, I don't think that's a problem for you or, you know, something that you need right now because you have a ton of clients and a ton of horses that you are rolling out with.

So we've talked about the cow horse, but how exactly did you, you know, you've worked under some of these hall of Famers and stuff, but where did you go? Okay. I don't want to train the show horses specifically, but like I want to start Colts that can go into the reining, the cow horse, the cutting, the barrel racing, all of that sort of stuff.

Uh, you know, it just, it's kind of the, one of those things, as you're, as you're going through the motions, it's just supply and demand. You know, all these guys are spending so much time hitting the road. And, uh, a lot of them got decent guys, you know, that stay at home and do it again. Good job on the two year olds. But just like me, me, [00:23:00] I'm only an assistant so long. And then I go out of my own, you know, and anymore just seems like the younger generation, there's just less and less people that want to spend the time to learn the craft, you know? And so I, there's just a huge demand for a good two year old guy that does a good job.

And then not just does a good job, but realizes what it's going to take for that horse to be a good show horse, and implement that early and just, and just keep it simple and soft and it teach them their job in a good way to wear them when them guys go to step them up as a three-year-old, you know, they, they, they come to the call and, and do a good job.

So, I mean, I do, I do like showing I got a little burned out working for some, like, especially no offense to Corey. I love him to death. He's like a brother. Boy, when we go to the horse show with 20 some horses, there's a lot of school and all night showing all day school and all night showing all day trying to catch a nap here or there in between clean installs and, [00:24:00] and shampoo in.

And it just, you know, I, I really enjoy the last couple of years when I have gone to horse shows, I take four and it's like a vacation, you know, I get away from some of my babies, but the babies know I really enjoy it. And you, you get to see that progress every day or sometimes I'm show horses. You're just, you're just keeping it, keeping it simple, keeping it, you know, you're, you're more so just going no way, no way.

Wait on me, listen to this kinda, kind of playing tricks on them, making sure they're not, you know, jumping ahead here and then just go to the show and go as fast as you can, you know, so, but, uh, the babies, you always see that progression day by day and you're just like, man, that's a lot. It's, it's just rewarding for me.

Just. You know, you, you work real hard at it. And every day they get a little better and you're like, man, this is great. You know, you feel like you're doing something so well, I think that's huge too, because like you said, uh, you actually have experienced showing the cow horse [00:25:00] and you currently do show the cow horse.

So you know, what a finished product should be. I always get a little cringe when someone's like, oh, I just sent it to the bronc rider down the road. And, you know, for the bronc riders, uh, they are good at what they do. Um, but when you're having a show horse, I think it's really important to put those foundations and fundamentals in early so that you're not having to go back and fix all those mistakes.

And so that's huge to have somebody who, who knows both sides of it and can start a horse really well, that can go on to be finished, whether it's with you or whether, if it's for a client or Cory or whoever. Um, and then I also totally get you on the burnt-out showing thing. Cause I did that too. And now I'm very appreciative of being a non-pro.

Well, like, so this year, I think it was the 10th time I showed it to snaffle bit fraternity and I've done good in the past too. Um, you know, I've always, I just, about every year I want to check and one of the divisions at the [00:26:00] fraternity and done well, um, except my first year, the first year was pretty rough, you know? And I think it is for everybody, you have expectations going in and then you get in there and you're like, ah, and you're like, I was going so fast in the raining and then you watch your video and you're barely Tony lope. And you're just like, what happened? You know? Um, but like I've always done well, but it seems like every year you come out from it and you're like, man, I I'm missing, you got a missing link somewhere, you know?

Like, and every horse is different, so they're always gonna, you know, you're going to have pieces you don't like, or, but it just seems like every year I got a little piece of the puzzle that I was like, I really thought I had that, you know? And I, and, and so I think that. You know, that really transfers to the two year olds.

And every year, my two year olds get a little bit, I don't know, I'd say probably less complicated. You know, I think the two year old guys are there. They're so worried about little things that really don't even exist. You know, it's a little feel, things that like, I gotta [00:27:00] have my horse feeling like this, and I got to have it doing this.

And sometimes if you just smooth it out and let it be simple than the horse has figured out on their own. And, and it translates so much better in the show pen to where you don't have to twinkle your pinky finger and wiggle your butt cheek and, and tap your nose three times to get them to do a certain maneuver.

You know? So I don't know. That's, that's the big thing I, I noticed different in my two year olds, just, just from showing. I don't know. I think that method of, you know, tapping your nose three times sounds like a much more fun method. I don't know about you, but like when I'm out in the Chopin, that's exactly what I wanted to do.

But we've talked about like your, your horses and stuff and how pretty much when you got to get on them, you like them to where, you know, it's some kind of old man can probably go jump on them because they're so ready to take on that next step. And where did you develop that kind of philosophy where it's like, I want them to be super broke before I [00:28:00] even get on them and make them broke in that sense?

Um, well I used to be the bronc rider down the street and, uh, you know, I'm getting it. It's, it's turned into a career and I have, you know, I don't have a big family, but I have my wife and my dog. I pay for a house and pay for a truck and, you know, like you start, you start realizing, uh, my income, kinda, some people depend on it and I do too.

So, uh, just being smart, you know, and just, just going about it a better way, just taking your time. Like, and I'm lucky I have a lot of my horses for the year, so I can, I can really take my time and do a good job. And if one takes a few weeks to get to where we can put a first ride on them, I'm okay with that.

And it just a better experience for that horse to, you know, that that first ride just you can walk off and if they grab their butt a little bit, you can steer them around in a small circle and just get a hold of their feet again. And pretty quick, you're just jogging and [00:29:00] loping. That's how that horse is going to be for the rest of his life. Especially if you can do that for the first couple of weeks and pretty quick, you just get on and go on there. They're completely happy and confident. You're gonna, you're gonna iron out a lot of bad spots that maybe you, you would've had, if you'd just, you know, cowboy it up and just stuck it to him. So I think that's a huge thing to say, because, you know, just like people, all the horses that you ride are different and their personalities are different in their, their mental capacity to learn something is different.

And if we're, we already put a lot of pressure on these horses, especially in the cow horse where we're wanting them at three years old, getting ready to do some pretty, extremely athletic things. Um, and to put so much pressure on them in that two year old year, or you're going to burn them out, you're going to stress them out, give them anxiety, you know, it's, it's great to hear that you kind of listened to the horse and, and kind of learn what they need to, for you to support them [00:30:00] and help them.

And that's, that's, you know, that's, I think, I think a lot of two year old guys get, get focused in on, I gotta have that. Doing what the them guys are doing as three-year-olds and you, and you don't like, I knew a lot just for like the first 90 days I do, I do a lot of ride and you just go in places, just teaching them, you know, you watch a lot of them guys and they get on and they're pulling them around and they're their first day.

They're just trying to get them like, oh, you gotta turn around. You gotta stop. And, you know, they're, they're just, he even in Holland and trying to do too much, I just, I just go forward. You know, I got enough on them to where, uh, you know, I do teach him to step around a little bit and I want him to come back to a stop and I trot circles, but they're for the first little while it's just go places and go places comfortably and confidently, you know, and just, just be comfortable with me up there.

And, you know, usually by the time somebody else gets them at the end of the two year old year there, they're [00:31:00] working a cow really good. And they, they just do kind of basic rain work. They love around. Nice. I probably run and stopped them a little bit, but not very much. Um, they have a really nice turnaround and they walk trot and lope circles.

I mean, that's, and they've been, they've been out in the desert and rope swung on him and that's about it, you know, there, but I've spent a lot of time doing all that stuff to where they're just super confident to where when them guys get them, they can put all their own feel on them. So I'm kind of going, I mean, not going back, but just kind of in general was there.

And this could have been when you were working for, you know, people or when you're out on your own, is there a horse that kind of changed your, your riding philosophy or a horse that kind of stood out to you that really kind of helped you become the horse trainer that you are? You know, I wouldn't say there's any one horse.

Um, I showed a lot. And [00:32:00] no offense to any owners out there, anything I've shown. I showed a lot of junk, you know, like I would always get the bottom of the hole, you know, the bottom pig being the assistant and everyone taught me a ton, you know, like, and I got to where I'd go in there and then like people would be like, that's a great horse. I'm like, you guys have no idea. Like this thing is fucking, you should have seen the struggles we had all year, you know, and this learning how to adapt. And you know, like, even though your work's not, might not be good learning how to get around that horse. And you know, like, you know, it's going to pull on you here, lean on you here and just learning how to show around it, you know, and just, and making the, making it look presentable in the Chopin.

And I know that it's, it would be hard to put maybe a non-pro or an amateur on one of those horses and get the same results. You know, still learning how to just put them [00:33:00] together. And a lot of times just like I said, a little bit ago, like making stuff more simple on those ones to where a non pro or an amateur couldn't get along with them, you know, and, and the little horse I showed this last year and did really good on that Celtic cat.

He, he, he did let me take it to the next level, which, you know, I, I was right on the cusp of, and I, and I knew how I've marked big before, but that's one of the first horses I could go do three events and mark big on, you know, so he, he, he taught me a little bit how to maybe tee off on them guys a little bit more, but, um, that's, that's no, no specifics, really just a lot of, a lot of just learning as you go and learn how to figure out those.

Maybe not, not as big time horses. I think that the not so big time horses are really the horses that make a trainer though, because I know that like, as a kid, I [00:34:00] showed some really, really nice horses. And then I went to college and I did the , you know, NCAA stuff and you're riding complete rejects, you know, they're anxieties off the roof.

They have, you know, bad memories of the show pen. And you're just like getting on this horse for four minutes and then having to go show. And that really, that changed my mindset a lot. And you really, I don't know. It humbled me. I was, you know, a kid that came off of doing really well. And then I was having to ride these horses that like took a little bit of, you know, skilled ARIDE and, and actually go and show.

And I, I credit those to being the reason why. You know, I, I think I'm the capable writer that I am today. Um, and I credit those horses more than the really nice show horses that I won a lot of stuff on, because those are the ones that you had to actually learn and do stuff and, and get out of your comfort zone and, you know, try something new.

Well, and then, you know, yeah, I [00:35:00] mean, I'm fully honest with my owners. Like I tell them, Hey, this one, you know, like, this is what he is. And, and me going down that path of no matter what they are still getting them broke, you know, we either can get rid of them because they are broke. Or a lot of times, like, they'll just want me to go through the motions with it, you know, and see, see what we can make.

And a lot of times, you know, like, I, I feel like so many guys strive for and I do too. I want that next big time horse. I want a good horse. Like, don't get me wrong. Like if, if I'm going to go show one, especially is competitive. It as competitive as it is. I want a good one. I want one that I can go be competitive on.

You know, you can keep a full barn doing a good job on average horses, you know, and there's a 90% of the horses out there are test horses, you know? And so, you know, I try to, I just always try to do a good job no matter what's presented to me. And, you know, as long as I think a guy's [00:36:00] honest and upfront with his owner and just not promising.

Oh yeah. Well, when the snaffle bit fraternity on this one, or, you know, being just upfront there, everybody's always happy with you when you do a good job. So yeah, I think that's the main thing, because like you said, not all horses are superstars. The superstars are actually far and few between you have a lot of pretty average horses.

I mean that they, they can go and be shown and get the job done, but it's just, they're not going to go out there and win every single. Big event. So being honest with those owners, I mean, they probably have a pretty good idea. You know, they put a lot of time and effort into the breeding and getting that horse to where it is.

But every owner has to know that not every horse that comes out of their barn is going to be a superstar, no matter who you send it to, whether it's you or somebody else or the saddle bronc rider down the street, it still kind of, you know, it will have a better opportunity in your hands, you know, taking the time and being in a performance, um, [00:37:00] atmosphere.

But you know, it just comes down to the athletic ability of the horse and the horses mindset and willing to do it. Yeah. And that's, that's just it. And like a lot of it, like, just like you said, they got a lot of time and effort into the breeding and you know, a lot of them, people don't like to hear, well, wow, this horse ain't gonna make it.

Ain't no good. You know? And like, you gotta be honest with them. I feel like there's been a lot of times where I have showed up, but the security with one and, you know, I, might've not just done, I want a little bit here or there on it, but I made, I presented their horse in a really good way, you know, and it does cost a lot of money to go to those things.

And I try to steer them maybe towards maybe some of the smaller shows that doesn't have as much as, as a competition. And then we have a little bit better chance at, and you know, just most of the time they're just super tickled. Uh, their horse was presented in a good way. And man, he, I know you didn't quite get it, but boy, it looked good, you know, and they're, they're [00:38:00] super happy about something like that.

And it's just, you just gotta feel out your customer. You know, see what they're up for and what they're not up for. And like I said, just upfront and honest and that's about without, you know, I, I feel like there's always a better way than just going, oh, that's a piece of crap. Or, you know, you don't, don't waste your time on it.

And there's some, there, there are some very few and far between, there's been a couple over the years. I'm like, we got to get rid of this thing. This is, this is a really bad horse, you know, and usually try to find a way out of it. But very seldom is not the case. If a guy spends a little time and effort, you can usually get through it and make it a decent animal so well, and, and it might not be the world's best cow horse.

You know, it might not win the snap a little bit, but it'll be a really good horse for somebody. Um, whether it's just a riding around horse, a ranch horse, or, you know, taking it into a new event, like the ranch riding is huge now, or the ranch, versatility, you know, a lot of those cow horses that have that really good foundation.

[00:39:00] That didn't necessarily make it as, you know, a cow horse in the NRCA Jay ended up going and doing really well in those events. So I think it's great to, you know, you don't want to just give up on a horse because it's not going to be the next Snapple that winner, but, you know, find, find what it will be good at.

Well, and that's, you know, especially without like the new rope horse maturities that are throwing so much money at it, I'll a big percentage of them. Horses are ex snaffle betters, and they've gone through that whole program of, you know, like go haul into a few fraternities and having to step up and getting shown and being at the show.

And they're having all that experience. And now they're a rope horse, which is in my mind, you know, it's a little easier task, you know? And so if you're competing against, you know, maybe say you, you just kind of started a, barely got your horse 90 days and start. Roping a dummy on it. Instead of going through the whole cowers [00:40:00] program, it's going to be really hard to compete against in a one of them horses that went down, just the shit, even if it didn't do good, it went down the show trail and had, I mean, that things way more of a finished horse than, than something that maybe just went to the rope and pan, or just like you said, or the ranch riding, you know, it's, that's a, that's a step down from what we do.

So I mean, it just, yeah, it, you can kind of take them horses and go any direction, especially if they'd been through the whole snaffled that process. And yeah, that's what I know that we've talked about barrel racing before too, is the fact that a lot of those barrel racers really like the cow horse background and those sorts of things, because they can take them and they're like, wow, this thing's actually.

Really bro, not at all what I was expecting to get out of my program. I, I do, uh, I keep, I keep, I keep my barn full with some gals that run the barrel fraternities. And, uh, it's funny when they [00:41:00] try one of, you know, I every now and then about seems like two or three horses a year kind of ended up being a reject that just maybe don't have a very good stop or no cow or something.

And I'll, I'll tend to lean towards like my team rope or friends or my barrel security gales, and try to sell them that way. And it's funny watching them ride them. They, they, uh, them horses have a lot of rate and they're real unsure about, you know, they're not running off loping around and they're not sure how to handle that.

Sometimes. I don't know if it will be fast enough. I'm like, ah, he'll be fast enough, you know, but they like, they like how they operate and they, they always love how soft they are. Now they're just simple, you know, they steer left, they go left, they steer right. They go, right. So yeah, they have control it.

They they're fast, but in a controlled way. And you know, like we S I spent a lot of time with a cow versus teaching body position. And I don't work on their [00:42:00] face being soft as much as I work on where their feet and their body are. And if they're feeding their body or right, their face will get soft and you know them, so they get on them and they start doing stuff with them while they're, you know, their body doesn't really get out of whack or their feet, don't get out of whack and they're not running around that barrel.

And, you know, just wiping out that, but around that barrel, or, you know, they go to ask them to stop and they stop. And they, they they're really impressed all the time, but so, um, well going, I mean, kind of off. What would you, I mean, you kind of talked a little bit about like working for people, you know, before going out on your own, what are some other advice to somebody who you, you know, might be looking to maybe get into the Colt, starting, maybe get into the performance, worse kind of thing?

Like what would your advice be to somebody who was maybe in your shoes when you first started? Um, listen, don't don't don't think, you know, everything, you know, I [00:43:00] still have, I still go next door and get help from Corey. I, uh, bounce some stuff off. Andrea. When I see him, I bounce stuff off, guys. I, I respect and Rivera's great or strainers, you know, I, I got my lifelines.

It just always listen. Always. Don't be afraid of trying something just because it doesn't fit what you know, or you do this. Listen, keep an open mind. Don't talk back, uh, basically basic principles like that. Your dad and mother teach you, I guess. Uh, and the biggest thing I think, you know, to keep it, it will destroy your confidence every day.

If you let it now, even me, I feel like I I'm really good at the two year olds. Um, it's, it's very easy for me. Um, I worked really hard to make it easy. You know, it, it didn't come by me naturally. I rode a pile of, I got, I don't even know how many [00:44:00] thousands and thousands of two-year-olds now. And I I've, you know, you develop a feel where you can feel stuff coming, you know, you can anticipate it, you, you know what, this horse has this field, it's going to do this, this horse has this feel, you know, and I've, I've wrote so many different kinds of horses too.

I can, I just kind of blended into one. But, you know, the biggest thing is just low ex I tell myself everyday low expectations, you know, I have high hopes going in, but I'm not going to expect that horse to be a hundred percent every day. Because if I do, I'm going to go, come home everyday and be like, man, I should be a greeter at Walmart.

You know, I suck at this and I'll get it. They will let you down every day. At the end of the day, they're still animals, you know? And I I'm, I'm riding a bunch of animals that are in kindergarten, you know, and it just, it's like trying to herd cats. You just can't, you're not going to get it done how you want every day and you just gotta be okay with that.

And I think a lot of people are just like, oh, I suck. And it's like, we all suck. You know, it's got a, [00:45:00] it's got a low expectations going in and you'll never get disappointed. You know, I'm always trying to make them horses better. But at the end of the day, like if they're not going to be good, like I'm just going to work through it to the best of my ability.

And you know, we'll start off tomorrow, fresh. Yeah, them being in kindergarten is like one of my favorite things that you say, because it's so true because, you know, you say, you know, you don't send your kid off to school without knowing a whole lot, same thing with your horse. Give him a little bit of background, but yet they're also still a little kids and sometimes they get distracted and sometimes they're slow learners and all of those sorts of things.

So, yeah, that's one of my favorite things. But have your group of kindergartners or first graders or, you know, elementary students, the horses that you have showing this year, what, what do you have in your lineup? No, I actually, I have just, uh, well I have my one Derby horse. I had two, um, my good friend, uh, will Pennebaker he's out of California.

[00:46:00] Me and him share an owner. Um, I had a Palomino named S Jr talking shine, uh, and I won, I was top 10 on him at the Reno security last year. And then I just showed at that little Pasa Robles, uh, spring class in Derby, it wasn't a little Derby, there was bunch of added money. And I mean, all the, all the big trainers were there.

Justin Reich, Clayton Edsel, Todd Bergen, Nick towers. I mean, it was a tough crowd, but he ended up top 10 in the open air and top five in the intermediate. Um, but I just lost him. He went to my friend will Pennebaker, which he'll do a good job on him this year. Um, so I just have that Celtic cat for the derbies and then I actually sold all my three-year-olds.

So I'm, I I'm always in the business to, you know, like I, I like to show, but I always look out for my two year old business. So, you know, if guys are coming and looking and I got good three-year-olds or two-year-olds, they're always for sale, you know, I don't mind, [00:47:00] you know, at the end of the day, uh, my bread and butter is a year old deal.

Um, I do have. A really nice little three-year-olds, um, that's a smooth talk and style and his, his mother is the mother to Stevie Ray Vaughn. So he's a, he's a nice call. Um, and then I have, uh, um, time for the diamond that belonged to some friends of mine down here. And he's, uh, he's a nice call. Those are the only two three-year-olds I have this year.

Um, and I mean, they're, they're both nice. They're not my Celtic cat, but they're both dang. Sure. Nice. Um, and then just the whole pilot two year olds, which I don't, you know, I never know where they're going or where they're going to end up. I know, I know kind of the destination of some of them, but not all of them.

So I try to send them, you know, if, if they want to be sent out to other destinations, I'm all about it. Cause once again, you know, I'm a two year old guy, I don't know. You know, and I do, I do start horses for trainers too. So [00:48:00] I don't want to be that guy. That's going to steal the trainer's horse or, you know, if someone wants to leave one with me and they don't have a concrete ties somewhere, um, I'm all about keeping them.

But at the same time, like I'd, I'd love to see them go off to other destinations and do do well on other barns. Cause it's just going to keep me in business. So. Uh, was the Palomino, the one that's going to be on the cover. Oh, by the way, it's official. You're on the cover of the book. Nice. Yeah. That's the Palomino.

Yeah. To all of our listeners. Jacob's the one that's going to be on the cover for our summer issue. And then McKayla and him worked on a really cool feature about how many days is enough in kind of breaks down what you can kind of a general idea of what you can expect your horse to be doing after so many days at the Colt starter or your horse trainers. And so it was a really good piece. I'm excited for it. Um, but no, I, I think I didn't hear the smart one because you, I was just visiting you, but [00:49:00] what, like a month ago, and you have full barn of horses, you're on a different one. Every time I saw you. Um, and you don't have to go to the, all the horse shows all the time you get to stay home.

So I think you're the smart one out. Well, that's, that's a nice thing about having all the two year olds is, you know, a guy can still have a weekend. You know, I, I love, I love to bow hunt. Um, um, so I get to take a little time here or there when I can. And, uh, the big thing about me not going to all the shows, then, you know, the owners know their two-year-olds are getting road.

And, and I kind of, like I said earlier, I have a monopoly on it. There's there are other guys that do it, but yeah. Not to bang my own chest or brag on myself, but there's only one me, you know? And so I do get a ton of nice Colts and I have a list clear till next year of people on the list waiting, you know, I just that's right.

A really good feeling for a horse trainer. I, I know if one stalls [00:50:00] empty, it's going to be full tomorrow and also, yeah. That's to me, that's, that's just good business practice. And I don't have all that overhead. It just beaten that road and buying new tires and keeping a big new trailer and truck and, you know, and then my, my career, doesn't not depend on me being great in the Chopin.

Every time I step in there to where, when I do go do good, it's just icing on the cake. You know, I, I, I get to have my cake and eat it too, and just have a good time with it. Yeah. I was going to say, you actually get to enjoy the horse shows when you go do it, because you're not, it's not, they still stress me out more.

I also really like your philosophy of there's only one you, because I think that it's really important that people don't try to look up to others and be the next Cory or the next Andrea or whatever, like find what you're good at and, and do that and be your own person. Don't try to follow in the footsteps of somebody else.

That's successful. [00:51:00] Yeah. And just, you know, like, there's that fine line between confident and cocky, you know? But like, I think, I think to be successful in the horsetail, you have to have confidence. You have to believe, you have to believe in yourself and you have to believe that it's going to work. Like, and because of the, especially in the show pen, the second you just hold back and maybe don't just go and run and stop that horse or go for that fence turn or whatever.

It may be any discipline. If you, if you're not, uh, you know, relaying that body language to your horse, like, Hey, this is what I want you to do. And like, let's do it with confidence is the second you hold back or get tight. That horse doesn't function as good as it can, you know? And that's you got it. You have to have confidence and you have to exude it and you have to, you have to just have that mindset.

Like, no matter what happens, this is going to work like this is gonna work. I don't know. That's I know that's probably like crazy voodoo stuff, but it. It does, like [00:52:00] if you run one down there and you're like, we are gonna run and stop, and this is going to work 99% of the time it's going to work and it's especially on a good horse.

And if you kind of hold back and second, guess yourself, you might bounce out of the saddle and, you know, see the city of Scottsdale under your butt or something, you know? So you gotta, you just, you just gotta go with it sometimes. And just overall in general, just to be confident, we actually just had a guy on the podcast, uh, Gil, who he owns a company called mental athletics.

He's a Rainer that lives in Israel. And yeah, so like we just did a whole podcast on, you know, the, the mental side of it and being confident and kind of having a game plan and, and realizing what you're doing in the show pen so that you aren't second guessing yourself and getting into trouble when you shouldn't.

And so, no, I think, I think that's all huge. And I think that's a really important part of whore showing that we like to forget. We get so caught up in what our horse is doing, that we forget what we're doing. Yeah. [00:53:00] And I, and that translates. I know this is kind of going off the spectrum maybe a little bit, but you know, when you are in the show pen, it's got to, you know, it's better to look good and feel bad than feel good and look bad, you know?

And I think so many people are like, oh, this feels like this feels terrible. This feels terrible. But just being able to retract yourself from the situation. And like, I constantly have somebody video me, you know, especially before horse show, like I just want to see what it looks like, or, you know, I've been around it enough now.

I kind of know what it looks like. You know, by the feel, especially on certain horses and just, just always lean into his shoulder here. But you know, what, if the judges probably can't see it, if you just turn loose and let it go. Whereas if you're kind of picking on it and you've got a tight rein a little bit, it looks like you don't trust that horse.

And then, you know, that kind of rolls into that confidence thing, but just, just learning, you know, learning how to get by and make it look good, even [00:54:00] though it doesn't necessarily feel the best. And a lot of times that translates to two year olds too. It might not feel very good, but if I work on the function, instead of the feel, you know, work on, like, I want this horse to stop and turn with that cow.

And so every time for me, like I, no matter what it feels like or what you. That horse has to stop in turn with that cow, you know, so I'm going to work that function trumps that feel like, and I'm going to keep working on the field, but I'm not going to distract that horse and take them completely away from what's going on.

I just, Hey, this is your number one job. And we're going to keep making this better as we go. But a lot of times, if you just teach that function and just keep trying to put your form on it, it gets really good. And they have a ton of confidence with it. Whereas it was like, no, that's not hot. That's that didn't feel right. That's not what I want. I want it better. I want it better. I want it better yet. It really take a lot of confidence out of them horses. And you don't, you don't get the, the end product as nice as you'd want. I want it to be. And a lot of times [00:55:00] you might have a really cool look, but then they just don't do it.

When you, when you call them. Well, I think that's something that's really important for, you know, our listeners to take home and, you know, go with is, especially going back to the show pin, you know, you, you got to keep showing it if something goes wrong and you just kind of hole up and try and fix it right there in the show pen, you're not really helping yourself or your horse.

If you just keep showing, you know, you might make it somewhere. You might not, you might feel something that the judges don't see and just keep going with it. So I think that's really important for our listeners to take home and then take home with the young horses, because they might be getting some young horses at home and, you know, you worked with them and they, they know it, but then going home to somebody who isn't a professional trainer is a, it's a different world for that horse and trying to work through all of those, you know, obstacles is something that the writers have to the keep in [00:56:00] mind.

Yeah. That's. Well, a good, a good example. This last weekend show show on my really good horse Celtic cat. Uh, I walked out of the rain and going, man, that sucked, that sucked. And then I, the announcement come on, it was like Celtic cat, 2 23, you know? And I was like, oh wow. You know, so I knew it wasn't horrible, but it just didn't feel like the ground was a little heavy.

And I know that horse always going to stop. And he just, we didn't feel like we went very far and it just, there was little spots that, you know, and just like, I, you know, the, I took, I took my own advice and I just kept showing through it and just staying loose and just, and just going, going somewhere and going somewhere, you know, fast and trying to make points where I could.

And it just, it's, it's funny how you'll walk out and you're just shaking your head. I don't shake my head walking out of that Chopin, you know, I don't want to let them guys know. I didn't like it. Uh, dang sure. You know, I [00:57:00] walk out of there and I looked at my wife and I'm like, man, that was it. Good. You know, it didn't, I didn't, you know, I knew, I knew it was decent, but she's like, yeah, it was great.

You know? And so it just one of those things, you just, it, it it's, it's funny, even as long as I've been around it, that still surprises you sometimes. So yeah. I know even being a barrel racer, the same thing, I know I'm not being judged, but I come out and I was like, that was terrible. And then they announced my time and I was like, are you sure about that?

Because it is not. And then I watched the video and I'm like, oh, the video looks just fine. That was flawless. But to me, it just felt like I was a monkey riding a football. So yeah, that's, um, I've had that feeling way too many times. Meanwhile, I just don't want to what I'm doing in the cow horse. So I just come out and I go, I don't know, is that good or not? Well, you're getting better. It was looking good. Last time you were down here in Scottsdale, [00:58:00] so don't be too hard on yourself. Yes. When, when we fell over tasting the cows circling at 10 miles an hour. Yes. Very good. Yeah. And then that going back, that made me think of it. Like you asked, like what would be good advice for somebody coming into it, but, you know, don't be afraid to fail or you gotta, you gotta remember, like, even, even the Corey Cushings and the Justin REITs and the Bob Avalose, we've all fallen flat on our face.

You know, like we've all I've, I've gone in there and just, I mean, just been terrible, you know, it just had nothing going in my favor, nothing work the horse, not really try, you know, and I think there's a ton of people that just, you know, they're, they're afraid to go in that show pen or they're afraid to, they're afraid to do something with a young horse and it just, you are going to fail like.

It's it's like you talk, you hear them, uh, them guys that are the [00:59:00] big time batters for the MLB, you know, like their, their success percentages super low, and they get paid millions and millions and millions of dollars for it, you know? And the horse trainers, we don't make millions and millions, but weight, same, same thing.

Like, you know, you, you can have some really good horses and do good in the show pen, but at the same time, a lot of what we do is just, you know, like the horses fail and then you just show them how to get out of it and they fail and you show them how to do it. Right. And they fail. Like it's okay to fail.

Like that's part of the training process and building a horse. And like, I feel like so many people try to make everything perfect where I'd rather like, let that horse fail. Like not just failed miserably and get himself in a bad situation, but at the same time, let them, let them make a mistake. And then, you know, maybe make it some work to get back to being right to where, you know, like if he misses a Callan, might hustling back over that cow and he misses a cow and I'm gonna hustle him back.

Well, pretty quick, he's going, oh, it's a lot easier just to [01:00:00] stay right here. And I don't have to hustle as hard, you know, and, and make them kinda be, be a little smarter and, uh, and, and help you help them to where, when you do get in the show pen, not only do you have them trained, but they're helping you along the way too, to where you're not having to do every little thing for them.

Yeah, for sure. No, I think that it was kind of good to get that little fall out of the way when he slipped. Cause now I have it out of the way and I don't have to be afraid of cause that's like Monique and I always joke ammonia. Hasn't had one ball on her circling and she's like, I am so afraid of that.

I don't want that to happen. And I'm just like, oh, I got it out of the way. Like, we're good. Now we can just keep going. Like, it's fine. Well, I, I, me from personal experience, it doesn't hurt too bad. So there's a lot as long as long as they don't come up over you and just slip and fall, it usually, usually the ground, anywhere we go is, is pretty soft in.

It kinda absorbs you a little bit. Um, there at [01:01:00] the snaffle bit security finals, I, I was sitting really good and I fell down circling to be, be really good, you know, probably top five. I was having a big fence work. And that was, I think that was almost harder than maybe just having a bad fence work. You know, probably what a rather had a bad fence work, then be so close to, you know, a good situation.

And then just right at the last second and just fall down. So yeah, I watched that run. It was. Really good.

It was a really good run. And when I saw you call, I felt I was like, my heart dropped because I was like, oh, he was having such a good run. It took me a few days too. I, I, uh, I told my wife, uh, you know, I don't, I'm not upset and I'm not depressed, but I just feel really terrible. Like it was a weird feeling I had.

And I [01:02:00] don't know if it was just riding that high of making the, you know, the first year I'd come back and show on my own accord as, as my own person, you know, I make a horse to the open finals and my non-pro makes the non-pro horse to the finals and, you know, just riding that, just great feeling of just success.

And then just having it all, come to a crashing end like that, just, and I was still happy. Don't get me wrong and excited for, uh, my friends, Sarah Dawson for winning it, you know? Uh, she fell the year before to win it. And, uh, maybe, maybe this year, maybe, maybe that same good luck will come back to me. I don't know.

I love it. Well, where can people find you if they want to learn more about you? Are you on social media? Do you have a website? Um, it's kinda sad. I, I do have an Instagram. It's a, I think it's at JB or JB coal company. Um, but I don't put a lot of time and effort into social media. [01:03:00] I kind of am oblivious to the world around me.

I'd uh, I'm busy enough guy. I just kinda, you know, try to appreciate that. Yeah. I try to just, I dunno, I feel like people get so caught up in dumb stuff on social media that just doesn't even really matter. You know, they get so absorbed in it and I try to spend time with my family and. Spend time at my job.

And, uh, you know, I, I feel like I enjoy life a little bit more cause I don't care about other people's stuff. So, but if you want to see a really great picture of Jacob posing for the camera, holding a chicken, you should check out his Instagram. Yeah. And that's for Kimes ranch. If I'm allowed to say that.

Well, thank you so much for joining us and taking time out of your day to talk with us, we greatly appreciate it. And um, hopefully our readers or listeners would learn a little bit more about you and they check out the summer issue of the magazine, where they can read about some of your training techniques.

[01:04:00] Yeah. It's been fun once again. We'd like to thank ADM for sponsoring this episode of the ride. Yeah.

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