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THE $5.95 In The US

ISSUE #23, FEB. 1999 COLLEC A 68-PAGE COLLEC IISSUE WHERE ANYTHING GOES!

A RARELY-SEEN,, FEATURE-LENGTH Kirby Interview

UNINKED PENCILS TO #49 FEATURING THE

COMPARING KIRBY’’S MARGIN NOTES TO ’s Words

INTERVIEW WITH . y e l r o H Denny O’Neil x e l A

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REMINISCENCE BY b REMINISCENCE BY r i K GRANDDAUGHTER

GRANDDAUGHTER k c a J

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Tracy Kirby r o w t r A

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UNPUBLISHED n I

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STORY FROM c i o C

Soul Love C D

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A Kirby Contest D AND Fan Art Unpublished Art INCLUDING PENCIL PAGES BEFORE THEY WERE INKED,, AND MUCH MORE!!

NOMINATED FOR TWO 1998 EISNER AWARDS INCLUDING “BEST COMICS-RELATED PUBLICATION” 1998 HARVEY AWARDS NOMINEE “BEST BIOGRAPHICAL, HISTORICAL OR JOURNALISTIC PRESENTATION” THE ONLY ’ZINE AUTHORIZED BY THE Issue #23 Contents: THE KIRBY ESTATE Keeping The Light On ...... 4 (Tracy Kirby remembers her grandpa and an old school project) The “?” Kirby Never Did ...... 6 (make way for , True Believer!)

Questions & Answers Odditorium .....7 ISSUE #23, FEB. 1999 (mysteries of the new Kirby Checklist) Kirby Contest! ...... 9 (Uncle Giveaway wants you to enter!) A Nice Story ...... 12 (behind the scenes with Captain Nice) Fan Art ...... 14 (our readers share their talents) Car & Driver ...... 18 (why the Whiz Wagon is up on blocks) Jack’s pencils to the pin-up in Interview ...... 19 FF Annual #5. (a feature-length chat from 1987, complete with plenty of stories) Centerfold: FF #49 Pencils! ...... 34 (Jack’s early Silver Surfer in pencil!) A Failure To Communicate ...... 36 (Part Three of our series comparing Jack’s margin notes to Stan’s dialogue, featuring the Silver Surfer) The Kirby Kronicles ...... 42 (a fan’s encounter with the King) Two Letters To Jack ...... 43 A Kirby Memory ...... 43 (a couple of fans in search of Jack’s autograph) Talking With Jack Kirby ...... 43 (the strangest, shortest interview ever) O’Neil On Kirby ...... 44 (Denny O’Neil on Justice Inc. and Richard Dragon, Kung-Fu Fighter) Heart & Soul ...... 48 (True Divorce Cases and Soul Love examined in detail) “The Teacher” ...... 54 (a previously unpublished Kirby story) Classifieds ...... 64 Collector Comments ...... 65 Front cover painting: Alex Horley Back cover inks, collage, and color: Jack Kirby Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support.

COPYRIGHTS: Atlas, Big Barda, Big Words, , , Chagra, Demon, Flippa Dippa, Gabby, Glob, Guardian, Henry Jones, In The Days Of The Mob, Jed, , , Losers, , , Mr. Miracle, Mr. Scarlet, Newsboy , , Richard Dragon, Sandman, Scrapper, Soul Love, Spirit World, , Tommy, True Divorce Cases, Whiz Wagon TM & © DC Comics, Inc. • Alicia Masters, Amphibian, Angel, Atlas Monsters, , Black Bolt, , , Daredevil, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Dum- Dum Dugan, , Fantastic Four, Franklin, Gorgilla, , This issue’s front cover is a painting by Alex Horley of a Demon pencil drawing we ran back in TJKC #17. , , , , Impossible Man, Indestructible, Invisible Girl, , Marvel Girl, , , Mr. Our back cover this issue is the original Metron concept drawing, in , watercolor, and collage by Jack himself! Fantastic, Nick , , Pepper, , , Puppet Master, Quicksilver, Replicus, , Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Sub-Mariner, Thing, , , X-Men TM & © Marvel Entertainment, Inc. • Alien, Humanoid, , Spaceship © Jack The Jack Kirby Collector , Vol. 6, No. 23, Feb. 1999. Published bi-monthly by & © TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Kirby • Duck and all associated characters © Jack Kirby and • , Don Daring, Stuntman, Uncle Giveaway © Joe 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Jon B. Cooke, Assoc. Editor. Single issues: $5.95 ($6.40 Canada, $8.40 elsewhere). Simon & Jack Kirby • Captain Nice and all associated characters TM & Six-issue subscriptions: $24.00 US, $32.00 Canada and Mexico, $44.00 outside North America. First printing. All characters are trademarks of their respec - © NBC-TV • Black Hole and all associated characters TM & © Walt Disney Productions • “The Unexplained Phenomenon of the UFO” © tive companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. PRINTED IN CANADA. Tracy Kirby 3 Keeping The Light On by Jack and Roz’s granddaughter Tracy Kirby

edtime was my favorite part of the day BB at my grandparents’ house because I knew Grandpa would be in full swing at the drawing table. Each time I fought to sleep on the big, yellow, “smushy” couch in the living room so I could easily sneak into Grandpa’s studio. Now, I’ll admit, I was afraid of the dark. However, I never needed a nightlight because the glow from his studio would always pre - vail over the evil, threaten - ing shadows. This was the time I had Grandpa all to myself. I would just look through the crack of the door and watch him draw. In my early years, a pen would be in one hand, a pipe in the other. What a wonderful smell! Many times, I came into the studio, sat on the couch, quietly watching. If I was really lucky, he would take a break and tell me one of his amazing mystery or World War Two stories (in the style of , of course!). Those were the nights I could stay awake forever, just listening and watching. At my age he wasn’t a famous comics artist. I never knew how truly impor - tant he was to the world until much later. To me he was magical, my own personal Merlin. He was the greatest storyteller a kid could ask for—and a great grandpa. While duking it out in to put Grandpa’s name on the

big screen and try writing myself, all the stories and memories keep flooding into my mind. I don’t see the images of Captain America, the Thing (well, except maybe for the “Jewish Thing” on the wall in the studio), Thor, or even the original Boy Commandos page they had on the kitchen wall. I see his beaten-up drawing table, his pipe tray, his entire National Geographic collection and sci-fi books on the shelves, a really dorky picture with him and costumed characters, the Yankee baseball cap he always wore, and the glorious backyard. (The back - yard itself requires a separate novel regarding all the wonderful and funny things that happened back there over the years. The UFO story pops into my mind vividly.) So as I start writing and developing the Kirby stories, I can’t help but think back to those precious moments when staying up late was a reward. For me, in those starlit hours, dreams became real and imagina - tion was allowed to run free. I will always thank him for letting me lis - ten and be a part of his creations, and not to mention... for keeping the light on. Tracy Kirby August 13, 1998 4 rying to compile the definitive Jack Kirby Kirby mis-remembering his involvement on The Checklist is like trying to enumerate pí ; the Fawcett’s Wow Comics as occurring five years TTcloser one gets to the end, the farther away earlier, and with a different publisher? It seems it gets. The solid foundation upon which the as though Kirby would at the least remember the additions and corrections were added was first comic that he had worked on. It’s known Jack Kirby Catherine Hohlfeld and Ray Wyman’s The Art of that Eisner and Iger were involved with work on Jack Kirby list. The largest volume of work had this . Does someone out there have already been done. New information added to the answer? Checklist: the list appears to lessen the number of “holes” or One of the ways to economize on room in questions, but it often creates more labyrinths the Checklist was to list reprints that were not and avenues on which to chase down and cross- featured in their entirety as “partial.” Without reference everything to everything else. going into too much detail, the reader can figure Through the research and involvement of out what’s been carved from the Kirby/Lee a number of knowledgeable Kirby fans around masterpiece. For example, in Marvel Treasury the world, the Kirby Checklist was updated, tiny Edition #11 (which features a new Kirby/Giacoia mistakes and all, to 1998. The road to compiling front and back cover), the reprint of Fantastic the updated 1998 edition of the Checklist is littered Four #51 (“This Man, This Monster”) is reduced with good submissions, bad recollections, and to 16 pages from 20 by eliminating pages 10, 11 a lot of detective work—not to mention having and 14. Marvel cropped page 9 and added one to leap-frog over every Sserpo, Zzutak, Vandoom, tier of panels from page 12. The missing material and Googam that pops up during a spelling check. is Johnny and (pages 10- Sometimes there is a sobering shock, like dis - 12), and a photo collage (page 14). This goes to covering that my #127 is missing show that no matter how alluring reprints are, the pin-up page! ( Choke!) Jean Depelley of France it’s still wiser to stick to the “originals.” sent the information in on Strange Tales #127, A big about the Checklist was and now we all know that there is a dynamic raised regarding the designation of “Kirby - a(l)”; Thing pin-up page by Kirby in that issue. this means that Kirby did art on a particular An early Kirby milestone now listed is Wags piece, but only in layout form. Also, the Checklist #64 (March 20, 1938), published in the UK by combines original stories and reprints into one Joshua B. Powers. This “Count Of Monte Cristo” long list—because many comics and annuals one-page installment by Kirby and Eisner mix the two types of stories (old and new). To marks the first original full-page Kirby art to be separate those into two lists would either split up Questions published—or is it? One obscure mystery that hundreds of books such as Fantastic Four Annual s, has puzzled me, and has possibly already been or list them twice. disproved by those far more knowledgeable One of the most interesting mys - than I, is the comic book Wow—What a teries introduced to the Checklist is “A & Answers Magazine! In an interview (translated Personal Message From Spider-Man” by Fabio Paolo Barbieri) in Lucca, Italy which appears in Amazing Spider-Man in 1976, Jack Kirby told interviewer #1. Is it Kirby? “Look at the fingers” was Odditorium Nessim Vaturi about his involvement the message written on the Checklist on this comic book: submission. There just might be some - by Richard Kolkman, thing to that, so it’s listed. It’s up to the VATURI: “You said earlier that early in compiler of the 1998 Kirby Checklist fans and historians to decide. Also, I didn’t your career you used to work for a want to believe it, but the proof was book called WOW! ” irrefutable; Kirby did two covers KIRBY: “Yes, it was the first magazine for I worked for. and (#19 and 20). used to publish However, I may it. They were my bosses have gone too back then, and those were far in agree - the first years of comics, ing to list and WOW—What a Romita’s Magazine! was one of the Kirbyesque first comic magazines.” (above) Are those “Kingfingers”? (left) Daredevil #7 cover. cover on The Overstreet Guide #24. describes WOW—What a Magazine! as a maga - On the other hand, is the cover of Daredevil zine-sized format comic published in 1936 by #7 [shown at left] by Kirby and Wood? The con - David McKay & Henle Publishing Co., and was sensus that was reached among knowledgeable 52 pages of original and reprint material. The fans is that it’s pure Wood (and dynamic Wood Gerber Photo Journal designates the scarcity of at that!). The new Checklist was also able to discard these books from “8” to “10”, indicating that fewer covers that had been attributed to Kirby for years, than 5 to 20 copies of each issue are presumed to and consign them to find their own place in exist. So how many Kirby experts have even seen comics history. If someone does the these comics? Is is possible that Kirby was involved Checklist , then they’ll certainly want to list Iron with this book the year that he was picking up Man #13 (an intense cover); and Tower of Shadows steam with Lincoln Features Syndicate? Was #4 is a dark, swirling and Bill 7 Everett masterpiece. They just aren’t by Kirby. There’s a lot of comic art covers was already in full swing by 1971. in the world not by Kirby, even if when we were children, it did seem In concept, “Gigantus” resembles other large fish-like creatures like he did half of it. that lumber out of the ocean to wreak destruction. There’s “Titan, The I’ve always had a pet theory that there is a Kirby/Romita panel in Amphibian From ” (the only example of Russ Heath inking Thor #182 (page 14, panel 2, shown below). Why not? One panel in Kirby) in #28. Perhaps this story was renamed because November 1970 is not “Titan” was the new name used for the original “Hulk” reprints from as far-out as March #62 and 66. (These were reprinted in Monsters on 1971’s Fantastic Four the Prowl #11 and 14.) A quick check reveals that “Hulk/Titan” is not #108 paste-up . “Gigantus.” Was “Gigantus” a previously unpublished story? It’s While this kind of con - unlikely. As a last resort, it’s necessary to read the reprinted story for jecture is fun, it really clues. On page 5, in panel 1, the man in the window refers to “.” doesn’t fit into the With that revealing slip by the ’70s reletterer, “Gigantus” can be traced Checklist . There are to Journey into Mystery #63. It appears that “Goliath” was renamed in times when the work deference to the Goliath then-cur - fairly shouts Kirby, but rently appearing in . It all without substantiation, makes perfect sense. ’Nuff said? there’s no use in listing The most far-out, bizarre it. The most impressive mish-mash of editorial tampering example of this is in on a 1970s Atlas monster reprint Tales of Suspense #58. was Where Creatures Roam #5. The Check out page 12, panel 2—Kirby?—or page 4, panel 6; there’s cover features the “Abominable something quite odd between the Heck characters in the background, ” from the cover of and the looming “Kirbyesque” figure of Captain America in the fore - #24 and is re- ground [as shown below] . Why is Cap’s right hand resting almost titled “Gorgilla” and has the halfway across the room on the point of the desk in front of Pepper? usual additional useless charac - It seems to be an odd paste-up—neither fully Heck, nor fully Kirby; a ters added to the cover. The hasty . reprinted story inside is actually “Gorgilla Strikes Again” from Tales to Astonish #18. Why couldn’t Marvel just play it straight, and reprint these sto - ries as nature intended? While some mysteries are solved, others appear in the mail. The Checklist has to adopt criteria to keep fringe information from taking on a life of its own. If the Hulk’s head is red in a reprint, and yellow in the original story, it’s not listed. This is too far afield from Kirby’s story - telling and art. Most question - able half-panels and rumored assists are largely left out of the Checklist . A few curious An important unanswered puzzle lost in the mists of time is: exceptions are included, How many pages was Kirby’s try-out for the new Spider-Man charac - however. Marvel’s Official ter in Amazing Fantasy #15? I listed two, because Stan Lee said “a cou - Avengers Index lists Avengers #17 ple” of sample pages were completed (in his Comic Book Marketplace as having Kirby retouching interview). But remembers around five pages, when they faces, primarily on the Mole were given to him to inspect before he created his definitive version of Man. It sounds far-fetched, Spider-Man. Perhaps Ditko is more accurate, because Stan’s “couple” and looks as though Kirby could still mean five after 38 years. Do these pages even exist today, must have done the retouching true believer? with his hands tied behind his back, but who can disprove it? The most ambitious phase of the Checklist was to cross-reference Heck, in a similar vein, Avengers Special #1—page 48, panel 3, all of Kirby’s reprinted stories to their original publication. Marvel’s shown here—features a reduced photostat from the cover of Avengers 1970s horror reprints were the toughest nut to crack. In their indefin - #25. What was wrong with able wisdom, Marvel renamed many of their monster stories in an the panel the way it was effort to comply with current super-hero and villain names. Not only originally penciled? For were the monster names relettered, but often topical references to reasons unknown, Kirby S.H.I.E.L.D. were thrown in for current effect. penciled only portions of Consider the mysterious case of Where Monsters Dwell #10. It some comic covers. A few features an obviously reprinted story called “Gigantus”—but where is of these covers appear to be it from? There’s “Gargantus” in Strange Tales #80, and the “Return Of pre-planned, such as Secret Gargantus” in Strange Tales #85, but neither of these are it. In desper - Origins #19 (1987), which ation, let’s examine “Iron Man Vs. Gargantus” in Tales of Suspense features a new Kirby/ #40—but even before the lid comes off of the comic box, it’s an apparent Anderson Golden Guardian dead end. figure. But other covers appear to suffer from a form of editorial tam - The redundant (but good) new Marie Severin artwork added to pering. Amazing Spider-Man #10 [shown on next page] and 35 both feature the cover of Where Monsters Dwell #10 does not confuse the question of Kirby Spider-Man figures. Were these originally part of whole Kirby prior publication. Marvel’s horrible practice of butchering Kirby’s Atlas covers? Or were they doctored and pasted-up, reducing Kirby’s contri - 8 Jack Davis, John Prentice, Andy Warhol (in his early days), Frank Frazetta, and many others. Around 1966, a new show was to air on NBC called Captain Nice. A Nice Story This show, like most all other shows in prime time television, was produced by other companies and sold to the network. My father’s by Bruce Graham job (among others) was to advertise in the aforementioned media for y late father, John J. Graham, was the Director of Design of the all new and current shows. NBC television network from the 1940s to 1976. He was respon- That’s where I came in! MM sible for advertising and the “look” of the network in that era. Mr. Graham’s adolescent son Bruce (that’s me!) was always He created many of the NBC logos including the NBC “snake” and the showing his dad all the new Marvel and DC comics because his son NBC peacock. supremely admired the artists in these publications and collected to In those days, illustration artists were widely used for television, obsession all the comic books of his favorite artists. (He even bought magazine, and newspaper ads. My father was the one who hired these two or three of the same issues at a time. He also wanted to be a artists for NBC. Among those he used, that I know of, are James Bama, and attended the High School of Art & Design— but that’s another story.)

12 -sized concepts to those minute, slo-mo panel sequences he loved so much. And all those years later it still felt weird. Again I say “felt.” Jack’s Jack Kirby Interview comics don’t look real, but they feel real, which is your take-home-pay long Interviewed by Ben Schwartz on December 4th, 1987 after your Mom throws out the book. Originally published in the UCLA Daily Bruin on January 22, 1988 About this time I was writing and editing for the UCLA Daily Bruin (Ben Schwartz comments: Maybe The Jack Kirby Collector isn’t the and I gave myself the assignment of writing a series of interviews with car - place to say it, but Jack creeped me out. Upon reading my first Jack Kirby toonists. I landed Will Eisner, , and Milt Caniff. I wanted a comic, Mister Miracle #18, a friend and I—John Francis Moore, a current fourth, so I started shelling with phone calls. To get rid of me, comics writer—had identical reactions. Decades before we ever met—me in Mark arranged some time with Jack. Half of that conversation still exists on Kenosha, WI, John in Huntington tape, which you have here. Back then I thought, if I have a chance to talk to Beach, CA—our respective seven- and nine-year-old minds wrapped around Mister Miracle ’s last issue and we thought: What IS this? Who are all these characters? Who is Vundabar, and that dwarf, and that huge woman Barda? And worst of all, Granny Goodness, who still ranks in my opinion as the most frightening character ever created in comics? And why was it the last issue? Superman, Richie Rich, Archie— they never had last issues. And that big stone guy at the end, Darkseid, laughing in that endless, awful way over a joke only he got—it was crazy. To us, everything about Mister Miracle #18 seemed dark, elusive, and confus - ing. What is this? Like I said, Jack creeped me out. It happened again. The next year, age 8, my asthma kept me home from school and my Mom bought me a “Mighty Thor” Treasury Edition, which reprints Thor’s epic battle with and (over-sized comics still kick ass, by the way). Pluto appears as a Hollywood producer who forces Thor down an stairway to . His face twists into an evil leer and it felt— felt— expansive, confident, brilliant. It made me afraid; so much so that I had to put down the book and wait till bed - time to finish it (a mistake—the night - mares!); and at the end, the villains beaten and the day saved, Thor just sat on a rock out in the middle of the ocean, a lonely, bummed-out Thunder God. Huh? This is a happy ending? Superman never sat on rocks. and swung off into the night, case closed, in jail. And Richie Rich—well, he was still rich. Again, I thought, what is this? Yeah, Jack creeped me out. By the time I got to college I had pretty much written super- off (and still do), but I started looking through Kirby reprints. I loved his oddly shaped char - acters. I saw the boldness of his original concepts as opposed to the ninety-ninth generation of them the publishers hacked out that month. I hunted up Mister Miracle #18. And instead of Jack over - whelming me, I grooved on just how big the guy thought, the power he packed into his panels, and how he lept from Jack cut the Barda face out of this xerox from Mister Miracle #5 to restore the one altered while inking. 19 that still left him speechless some forty-three years later. That’s on the tape, too. And when Jack tried to describe the horror, trying to find words that still wouldn’t come, I felt seven again. It creeped me out. Jack, too, I’d guess. But right then I knew I’d found what I’d come for, to find out what shaped the man, and how he put into pictures what he couldn’t put into words. But then Jack would shift gears, telling me how funny the war was, like Gen. Patton, furious at seeing Jack alive, or Marlene Dietrich singing to Jack while Nazi shells dropped around their ears. Jack laughed at this, this comedy in the middle of tragedy—and suddenly I knew just what Darkseid was laughing at in his awful way. Jack had seen the big joke, the kind only the gods get—and that really creeped me out. The tape opens with me, still obsessed with Thor, trying to pin Jack down on how he composed the panels for the battle with Hercules. Why is everything symmetrical? Why is good seen as the equal of evil? Why, why, why? And then, Jack told me. JACK KIRBY: It’s not my intention to do great art. It’s my intention to do great story. And whatever effect I’m trying to get has to come across. It’s just my own way of working. I feel that if I’m telling an effective story, which is my job, I’ll sell the magazine—and of course, that’s also my intention. BEN SCHWARTZ: You talk about not wanting to do “great art,” but you have Thor battling Hercules, and you wanted to show them as equals. All these panels are symmetrical, balanced. JACK: I designed ’em, believe me. The pages are made so that they don’t clash with the reader’s . So you’ll find that they’re balanced. BEN: Well, as far as this issue goes, it just struck me that you were dealing with two characters, equals, good and evil, and you have it all expressed through the art, the images. JACK: Yes, and believe me, balance is involved. Balance, design, nothing that would clash with the eye. ROZ KIRBY: Nowadays in comic books they break the panels up in all such crazy ways. Have you see them? Kirby’s original, unused cover to Thor #141. JACK: Well nowadays you can’t follow continuity. Jack Kirby, what I want to know is how he became Jack Kirby. By that I mean, ROZ: Yeah, it’s very difficult. what does a guy have to go through to come up with comics so disturbing, dark, and wild that I was too scared to read them? BEN: Actually, the guy who does that well is Howard Chaykin. On meeting Jack, I immediately told him about that scare. “Oh,” he JACK: Well, he has his own style and Chaykin tells a story his own said, suddenly contrite, “I’m sorry. Really.” I reassured him that an apology way—b ut I get a lot of the new books and I notice that some of the wasn’t what I had come for; but that scare is what our conversation turned guys go a little too far out, where you really have to work to follow the on, since, as you’ll see, it’s almost entirely about Jack’s lifelong experience story; and symbolism—I didn’t put in that much symbolism. I hap - dealing with evil—real evil. From the violent slums of the Lower East to the pen to know people—and I just put people down as I knew ’em—and Third Reich to the Marvel Age, Jack saw evil in so many forms. He told me he villains would do the same things I knew villains would do. could draw these things because he knew them. Jokingly, I asked if that meant he ever knew a guy like Pluto. “Oh yeah,” Jack laughed. “Oh, I knew ’em. BEN: So you knew someone like Pluto? Believe me.” I laughed, too, but I knew then—Jack meant it. He had seen JACK: [laughs] Oh yeah. Oh, I knew ’em. Believe me. that evil. He had marched through Normandy days after D-Day while Allied casualties (whole or in pieces) still lay dead on the beach, an experience BEN: Well, people talk about how fast you are as a penciler, so when 20 you’re working as fast you do—I mean, is the idea to show these two stories. I wrote the plots. I did the drawings—I did the entire thing as equals, with that balance? because nobody else could do it. They didn’t know how to do it or want to do it and they didn’t give a damn. They were taking money they JACK: Sure. invested in the magazines and putting it in something else. But I made a BEN: Okay. Then to do it that fast, did it just happen as you drew it? living off that. So I put out magazines that sold. I made sure they sold. JACK: No. My idea was that there is just as much strength in evil as there BEN: I’ve heard stories where an artist would watch a publisher tear up is in love, see? And that’s why evil is such a danger—the fact that it is his pages if he didn’t like him. so strong—and so I would try to portray it that way. JACK: Sure! BEN: Is that why The is about balance, too? You have Orion BEN: And that amazed me. Because you think this is America, right? and the New Gods in and then Darkseid— This shouldn’t happen here. JACK: Orion and The New Gods is an allegory, really. And the New Gods JACK: Well, I’m telling you about an altogether different generation— are just a continuation of the old gods. [In] the old gods, was an a generation that did that. A generation that would take guys at the evil god. Thor was a good god, a god of virtues. But not only as an newspapers, telling a great story one day, and the next day they’d allegory, I had Thor as a human being, examining himself saying: “Here throw him out on his pants. You know, they’d just throw him out the I am, I’m supposed to be a great guy, right? Why do I kill people?” door. And people were like that. So, they don’t do that anymore. I BEN: Yeah, that’s the last panel here [Thor again] where he’s sort of think they’ve more or less grown up—and I thank God for that. I thank asking, “What good is it to be a god if you have to temper it?” God that we can all sit and reason with each other. JACK: Of course, of course, and that’s his problem. Loki finds no BEN: So you think the industry has improved? problem with that, see? In other words he’s an arrogant type, see? He says, “As long as I’ve got this power and I’m born with it, what am I supposed to do— waste it?” BEN: There are a lot of consistent ideas in your books, like the use of power. JACK: Yes. BEN: When was it that you first became conscious of these themes? JACK: Well, just working in the comics field you can feel the pushes and pulls of power. In other words, the publisher was the All Power. In order to stay working you had to work along the publisher’s guidelines or else you’d put out a magazine for yourself, which you couldn’t do. In my day money was hard to come by, so risking money was a very hazardous task. So we stayed within the editor’s guidelines—but my sales were very effective so the publisher couldn’t argue much with me, see? So I had an easier time of it than the average guy. BEN: Yeah, in the last ten years comics have changed where you’ll have some - one like making hundreds of thousands of dollars. JACK: Oh, sure. BEN: And he has all this power to do whatever he wants. But for someone like you in your era, was it much different then? JACK: Yes. Because I took a beating for John Byrne. It was in my generation that the publisher came to learn that sales depended on how you treated the artist. I mean, if he was really good—and that no idea was really a bad one. You gotta give an idea a chance to grow. And I did that with the Marvel books. I wrote the Unfinished Mister Miracle #3 page. 21 Page 7 pencils from Fantastic Four #49, showing some of Jack’s earliest work on the Silver Surfer. A Failure To Communicate: Part Three by Mike Gartland (featuring Jack’s uninked pencils from Fantastic Four #49) Rough Surfing n the last article in this series, we read how II first appeared on the scene in Fantastic Four #48, and that after he left he wasn’t supposed to return for a very long time. Perhaps this was why, at the end of that story, a reminder of the mysteries of the Universe was left behind: The Silver Surfer. To Jack this was just another plot thread, to be picked up and used for future stories and adventures; he had no idea at the time of the importance of what he had created. Stan Lee, however, found out soon enough through fan response; the Surfer was sensational. The Surfer must rank among Kirby’s greatest creations; but believe it or not, Jack’s Surfer was short-lived, lasting about two-and- a-half years. One must come to understand that there were actually two Surfers: The version Jack created and the one Lee “re-created.” Many are familiar with the often-repeated story of how Lee was presented with the penciled pages to FF #48, only to be surprised by the new character in the story. (Apparently when Jack dis - cussed the plot with Stan he either neglected, or hadn’t yet thought of, the inclusion of the Surfer.) was present when this occurred and it is he we have to thank for honestly relating a true story that Marvel historians can be sure of. Had Roy not been there and told the tale to readers, in my opinion the Surfer would have become yet another Kirby creation forever mired in the “co-created” ambiguousness associated with the “Lee/Kirby” creations. Jack’s Surfer can only be (above) The Surfer drops in (literally) on Alicia in FF #49. (next page) The turning point of the Galactus Trilogy. seen in issues of Fantastic Four. 36 thing different about it. “Dynamic” is the word I would use now; I probably didn’t know that word when I was 7. But I remember while O’Neil On Kirby Captain America wasn’t one of my big favorites, it was a book I enjoyed. Denny O’Neil interviewed by Bob Brodsky You know, [at] seven years old in the Midwest, it doesn’t occur to you that human beings had done this, (laughter) that there might be (Like Jack Kirby, Denny O’Neil stands as one of comics’ most prolific talents. names attached to it. And then of course when I went to work for While Kirby’s best work relied mainly on the power of his artwork and the Stan, Jack was one of the very first people I met. I remember watching cosmic scope of his ideas, O’Neil has walked a different sort of beat. For nearly him work in the office and being so new to the business that I didn’t 35 years he has infused his writing with intelligence, craft and groundbreaking know how astonishing it was that that guy was sitting there and that characterization. Originally a journalist, O’Neil began his comics’ career at as fast as his hand could move, pictures were emerging. (laughter) Marvel in 1965, writing “Dr. Strange” and the occasional Daredevil story for Stan Lee. In 1967 he joined Dick Giordano at Charlton, where, under TJKC: How well did you get to know Jack during your mid-’60s stay at the pen name “Sergius O’Shaugnessy” he contributed the well-remembered Marvel? comic book novella “Children of Doom” and Wander, a marvelous science- DENNY: Oh, just to say hello to. I don’t think we ever spent an evening fiction/western strip. O’Neil came to DC with Giordano in late 1967 and promptly settled into an incredible six-year run that began with The New in 1968 and ended with in 1974. O’Neil’s considerable creative accomplish - ments during this period included updating The and Superman, returning Batman to his “obsessed avenger” roots and introducing “relevance” to comics with his and ’ astonish - ing /Green series. In the process, he elevated comics to a new place of respect among fans, professionals and, incredibly enough, the “real world” outside the medium. Denny left DC for a writer/ editor position at Marvel in the late-1970s, where he detailed Tony Stark’s struggle with alcoholism in Iron Man and mentored a young before returning to DC in 1985. The late 1980s brought his gritty revival of Steve Ditko’s ’60s Charlton character, The Question, a series O’Neil considers his most honest work to date. Now group editor of the Batman line and the writer/creator of Azrael, O’Neil has also written extensively outside of comics including novels, teleplays and short stories.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: When did you first become aware of Jack and his work? DENNY O’NEIL: Probably before I became a professional. I started buying some when I was still a reporter and I imagine that there had to be some Jack Kirby in there. And actually, if you want to tell the strict truth, probably when I was 6 or 7, because I remember reading Captain America and being struck by the artwork. I couldn’t even articulate that I liked it. I just Kung-Fu Fighter #3 pencils. “Jim Dennis” is a pseudonym for Denny and a friend who co-created the character. remember that there was some - 44 hearkened back to all the big hits he had with in the ’40s and ’50s. Look at the list of rehashes: The Guardian and the (in Jimmy Olsen ); Sandman (in his own book, where Jack even reteamed with Joe Simon one last time); (a one- shot in First Issue Special) ; (an attempt to play off the wartime success of Boy Commandos ?); the Demon (shades of !); and the Dingbats of Danger Street (another go at the venerable “Kid Gang” concept). DC even tried reprints of such S&K clas - sics as Black Magic and Boy Commandos. Apparently pub - lisher felt that after acquiring Marvel’s creative , the best route to take would be to send him down the paths (and gen - res) that had sold millions of Simon & Kirby comics in the past. It’s a credible strategy from a publishing stand - point—building off of past suc - cesses—but there’s one thing that apparently wasn’t consid - ered: Jack’s constant desire to create “the next big thing” in comics. He would never be content to simply look to his past glories, and to his credit he always attempted to bring something new to these tried- and-true concepts. Still, in the early days Kirby was allowed some con - ceptual freedom. The ground - breaking Fourth World took the super-hero genre to new heights, and several magazine concepts were devised, with at least a full issue drawn of four of them (although only In The Days of the Mob and Spirit World were ever published, albeit in a format different than what Jack Kirby’s opening page for True Divorce Cases #1. originally envisioned)—and while these magazines were also rooted in the best-selling Simon & Kirby genres (crime, horror, and romance), the end result was unlike anything the S&K team had ever Heart & Soul produced, particularly in the romance vein. True Divorce Cases and Soul Love examined by John Morrow Breaking Up Is Hard To Do irby’s early days at National Periodicals in the 1970s must’ve For Jack’s first try, he created what’s been dubbed the first anti - seemed to him like a time of infinite possibilities. After a period of romance comic. True Divorce Cases (or True Life Divorce , as it was also KK strained relations with the Marvel “House of Ideas” he helped known from time to time during its inception) was—like In The Days build, his new contract at DC was a chance to start fresh and try a of the Mob and Spirit World —Kirby’s attempt at upscale, adult-oriented plethora of new, daring ideas he’s not wanted to relinquish to the Marvel magazine fare. While divorce had always been a taboo subject, the mill. But throughout Jack’s five years at DC, his work continually “free love” mindset of the 1960s led to a surging divorce rate in America by 1970, and Jack looked to take advantage of this growing social trend. 48 While the concept may seem odd by today’s standards, this was would’ve ended the mag, and the remarkable “The Other Woman”, a cutting edge for 1970. Jack intended this to be for adults (assistant ten-page tale with an unexpected ending. Also done for the issue was Steve Sherman even remembers a rather risqué photo shoot involving the thirteen-page “The Maid”, a story of the conflicts that can arise when a woman in leopard-skin underwear, a bed, and a motorcycle; this a liberated woman enters the workforce, and leaves the housework would’ve been used either on the cover or as part of a photo story inside (and unknowingly, her husband’s emotional upkeep) to a beautiful the magazine). Perhaps it was a little too hard-hitting, for after Jack’s young maid. (Here’s another then-current trend Jack was exploiting to penciled pages for the entire book were handed in, the idea was shelved. good effect: The Woman’s Liberation movement that caused such A trip to the 1998 Comic-Con International in San Diego gave upheaval in the late 1960s-early 1970s.) Next up was “The Twin,” a me a firsthand look at most of the original art from the book. In TJKC seven-pager dealing with the trials and temptations of having an exact #20, we offered a glimpse at the three-page story “The Cheater” that double (or in this case, a more outgoing, sexually-charged version) of your wife in the house. (Although almost the entire issue has been lettered, only the first two pages of “The Twin” have been partially inked by Vince Colletta; the rest of the book remains in pencil form.) Upon reading these stories, I discovered a remarkably mature Kirby telling tales of love gone wrong and relationships ending. (Or do they? There were surprise twists throughout.) Marriage Counselor Geoffrey Miller was the narrator of the tales, offering snippets of advice at the end of each case. Of the four stories I’ve read, there’s not a dud in the bunch. The same goes for the female leads of each; these pages ooze sensuality, and the women depicted are— to this writer’s mind— the sexiest of Jack’s career. From the striking good looks of ingénue Ingrid and the mature beauty of Myra in “The Maid”, to the buxom playfulness of sisters Edna and Charlotte in “The Twin”, Jack cap - tured the feminine form in all its wonderful variety. (Three other examples—the - ish Janet in “The Cheater” and the catlike Jessica and matronly Evelyn in “The Other Woman”—were shown in TJKC #20, as well as an intriguing “next issue” illo showing four more varied Kirby women.) The entire issue is a gripping read, filled with art by Jack at his peak, 49 55 Metron TM DC Comics, Inc. Artwork © Jack Kirby. ISSUE IN PRINT OR DIGITALOR FORMAT!PRINT IN ISSUE STANLEE’S FANTASTICFOUR#49, Rarely-seen cover! art,pencilpages before inking, & more! grandpa!),her unpublished storyfrom schoolprojectgranddaughter by http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=98_57&products_id=449 IF YOU ENJOYED THIS PREVIEW,THIS ENJOYED YOU IF CLICK THE LINK TO ORDER THIS ORDER TO LINK THE CLICK KIRBY COLLECTOR #23 COLLECTOR KIRBY words,interview with KIRBYINTERVIEW (68-page magazine) (68-page (Digital edition) (Digital comparisonof , UNINKEDPENCILS TRACYKIRBY DENNYO’NEIL $2.95 SOULLOVE KIRBY’S KIRBY/ALEXHORLEY $5.95 (illustratedby marginnotesto , 7th Grade7th, , unpublished, from