Georgia Government Documentation Project Series F: Marvin Griffin Interview with Lester Maddox June 16, 1976 Copyright Special Collections and Archives, Gerogia State University Library DISCLAIMER: Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well- informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. RIGHTS: Unless otherwise noted, all property and copyrights, including the right to publish or quote, are held by Georgia State University (a unit of the Board of Regents of the University System of Georgia). This transcript is being provided solely for the purpose of teaching or research. Any other use--including commercial reuse, mounting on other systems, or other forms of redistribution--requires permission of the appropriate office at Georgia State University. In addition, no part of the transcript may be quoted for publication without written permission. To quote in print, or otherwise reproduce in whole or in part in any publication, including on the Worldwide Web, any material from this collection, the researcher must obtain permission from (1) the owner of the physical property and (2) the holder of the copyright. Persons wishing to quote from this collection should consult the reference archivist to determine copyright holders for information in this collection. Reproduction of any item must contain the complete citation to the original. CITATION: Maddox, Lester, Interviewed by Robert Dubay, 16 June 1976, P1976-05, Series F. Marvin Griffin, Georgia Government Documentation Project, Special Collections and Archives, Georgia State University Library, Atlanta. Copyright Special Collections and Archives, Gerogia State University Library GGDP, Lester Maddox, Date: 6/16/1976 GEORGIA GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTATION PROJECT GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY SERIES F: Marvin Griffin NARRATOR: FORMER GOVERNOR LESTER MADDOX INTERVIEWER: Robert DuBay INTERVIEW DATES: June 16, 1976 Q: -- if not, you refer to Marvin very often. And I know it was your book and about your life and career, but why was that not so? A: Well, you looked over it, you’ll see a lot of people not referred to in the book. It was generally in reference to people that I was engaged in in the campaigns or in government. And to a pretty regular emphatic extent, strong extent. And I wasn’t involved. That way we’ll former governor Marvin Griffin, just like I wasn’t with a lot of other people, and their names were not included in there. CopyrightQ: What Special about Collections -- and Archives, Gerogia State University Library A: I don’t believe Talmadge was in there. Q: Right. 1 GGDP, Lester Maddox, Date: 6/16/1976 A: And I don’t believe Walter George was in there. So. (laughs) Q: Well, how would you describe your relationship and your acquaintances with Marvin? And I know he has supported you in certain elections and so forth. A: I think they’re excellent, and I believe they’ve always been. I believe they’re good. I think Marvin Griffin is one of the most sprung-tight individuals that we’ve had on the Georgia scene maybe in the history of the state. He was willing to say what he thought he ought to say and do what he thought he ought to do, and I think serving as governor and before and after, proven to be one of the most colorful people, figures we’ve ever known in our state. And everybody knew of Marvin Griffin. The people who support him and the people who did not support him, they all knew of Marvin Griffin, and they all, I believe, formed some kind of opinions on Marvin Griffin. And I’m glad that Marvin Griffin got to be governor of our state, glad that I got to meet and know him. Q: You mentioned in your book -- A: I supported him in both of his campaigns, the one when he won, and the one when he lost. Copyright Special Collections and Archives, Gerogia State University Library 2 GGDP, Lester Maddox, Date: 6/16/1976 Q: You mentioned in your book you used to cater sometimes to the governor’s mansion. What was that like? How does one feel when they catered? (inaudible) beds or something? A: Only time I ever catered in the governor’s mansion was when Marvin Griffin was governor. And I had calls from the mansion, and I talked with Mrs. Griffin in reference to the catering, and even met with her once or twice at the mansion, in reference to the catering, he put on a big function for his World War II military buddies, and they had quite a thing going there. Q: I think you said you -- A: They would ask me for a price, and I would give them a price, and they’d give me the orders. And of course I always had reasonable prices just like I do today. And I thought it was great that little old Lester Maddox, running a small restaurant out on Hemphill Avenue at the time, would get an opportunity to go to the governor’s mansion, and especially to serve the governor and his family and friends. You know? Q: What did you serve? A: Fried chicken. Q: Anything else? Copyright Special Collections and Archives, Gerogia State University Library A: Bread, potatoes, and the coleslaw. Ice Tea. 3 GGDP, Lester Maddox, Date: 6/16/1976 Q: You said they gave you a $50 tip once, or something, and it was the only profit you made. (laughs) Is that right? A: Yes, sir. I suppose maybe I gave them as good a price as I could and still maybe not lose on it in order to try to get the business and get to say I had served the governor or had served at the governor’s mansion. And it happened that I did not make anything on the service. And when I got a $50 tip from the governor himself, well, that was the profit, and it was so important to me that I didn’t forget it, and I never will, that I got $50 from the governor of Georgia. Q: Did he support you during any of your efforts to -- when you ran for mayor of Atlanta? A: No, sir. Q: Not at all? A: I don’t recall. Q: How about in the election of ’62? Both of you lost. Why? A: Well, I was running against the establishment, and I had never been in a statewide campaign. And I don’t know why Governor Griffin lost, unless maybe the image that had been projected about his previous administrations and the things that had occurred during that time. I think that probably Copyright Special Collections and Archives, Gerogia State University Library had more to do with it than anything else. And then the major media was against it. And of course all the liberals 4 GGDP, Lester Maddox, Date: 6/16/1976 and the radicals, they were against it. And that’s a pretty powerful group. Q: The same people who were against him were against you, weren’t they? A: Generally speaking. But you put them all together, and that’s a big, powerful group and what you’d call the political establishment. They supported young Carl Sanders. (break in audio) Q: -- decent career. A: Huh? I thought it was remarkable that a boy from Hemphill Avenue, a fellow from Hemphill Avenue in Atlanta, part of the Atlanta -- native Atlantan -- the only native Atlantan ever elected governor, the only one ever elected lieutenant governor, I thought it was remarkable that I would get in a statewide campaign against people like Peyton Hawes and Peter Zack Geer and the other various ones that were in there at the time and that I would beat them all in the primary except Peter Zack Geer. And I think the difference was that Peter Zack Geer lined up with Carl Sanders, and I didn’t. Q: They weren’t too compatible, ideologically speaking. Copyright Special Collections and Archives, Gerogia State University Library A: No, but it got to be a strictly political thing in a primary runoff, and Peter Zack made his arrangements with 5 GGDP, Lester Maddox, Date: 6/16/1976 Carl Sanders, and I was certainly an outsider, unknown to most politicians at the capitol, and I don’t suppose I knew five of them myself at the state capitol. I doubt seriously if I knew five people in 1962 at the Georgia state capitol. I did know Peter Zack Geer and I knew Marvin Griffin and Ernest Vandiver. And I didn’t get to know Carl Sanders until the governor’s race in ’66. And he stated to me -- no, it was in ’62 when I met him -- he stated to me at Jekyll Island that he keeps hearing more and more about a Sanders and Maddox win. And I responded back to him that I hear a whole lot also about Griffin and Maddox. (laughs) Q: You and Marvin didn’t consult during the campaign? A: No, sir, not about political activities. Q: Why is that, typically in Georgia, each person tends to his own garden, they don’t team up? A: I don’t know whether that’s true always or not. Q: It generally is. A: I was still an outsider, politically speaking, during that race.