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Vol. 729 Tuesday No. 177 5 July 2011 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Diplomatic Missions: Unpaid Congestion Charges and Parking Fines Manufacturing: Investment Growth Forecast Audiovisual Media Services Directive Sudan: Framework Agreement Phone Hacking Private Notice Question Marine Navigation Bill [HL] First Reading Fourteen Statutory Instruments Motions to Refer to Grand Committee Localism Bill Committee (5th Day) Corporate Governance and Accountability Question for Short Debate Localism Bill Committee (5th Day) (Continued) Grand Committee Eleven Statutory Instruments Debated Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. 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THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN, compiled by the House of Commons, gives details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscription: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2011, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU; email: [email protected] 117 Diplomatic Missions[5 JULY 2011] Diplomatic Missions 118 Earl Attlee: My Lords, I have had a brush with House of Lords Transport for London over the congestion charge and, unfortunately, I found it to be deadly efficient. Tuesday, 5 July 2011. 2.30 pm Lord Berkeley: My Lords, can the noble Earl tell the House whether the President of the United States and his very long and low-slung car—which went Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Derby. aground in Dublin, we are told—and his retinue of 40 other cars paid the congestion charge when they Diplomatic Missions: Unpaid Congestion came to London last month? Charges and Parking Fines Question Earl Attlee: My Lords, I expect that they probably claimed diplomatic immunity. 2.36 pm Asked by Lord Faulkner of Worcester Baroness Doocey: My Lords, I declare an interest as a Member of the London Assembly. Does the Minister To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps agree that the abolition of the western extension zone they are taking to recover unpaid congestion charges gives the Government a new opportunity to renegotiate and parking fines incurred by diplomatic missions. this long-running saga? Earl Attlee: My Lords, two-thirds of all foreign Earl Attlee: My Lords, the situation is simple: we missions pay the London congestion charge, but as believe that the Government of the United States diplomatic missions are immune from prosecution in should pay these congestion charges and parking fines UK courts, there is no legal course of action which as they occur. It does not really matter how far out the Her Majesty’s Government or local authorities can congestion charge zone goes, these fines and charges take to enforce payment of the congestion charge or are due. parking fines. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Transport for London and other local authorities Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the Minister is continue to press non-paying diplomatic missions to right: sagas last a long time, and so has this particular pay the clearly outstanding congestion charges and abuse—for it is an abuse of our hospitality when parking fines. charges are not paid by foreign embassies. Why does the Minister not talk to his Foreign Office colleagues Lord Faulkner of Worcester: I thank the Minister and suggest that Foreign Office staff from this country very much for that Answer—disappointing though it working overseas will not pay any charges until we is, I am afraid. Does he agree that this is an absurd reach the sum that is owed to us by those delegations situation which cannot go on indefinitely? The total in that refuse to pay legitimate charges? unpaid congestion charge penalties rose from £36 million at the start of last year to £52 million by the end of April. Is not the answer perhaps for the Prime Minister Earl Attlee: The noble Lord will recognise that or the Foreign Secretary to sit down quietly with the diplomacy is a very delicate matter and that such a American ambassador—who owes £5 million of those course of action would be extremely ill advised. fines to the people of London—and explain to him that this is not a tax: it is a legitimate charge for Lord Glentoran: Will the Minister say what success services rendered under Article 34 of the Vienna the previous Government had with this problem, which Convention on Diplomatic Relations? If the American has been going on for many years? ambassador were to do it, I am sure that the others would follow. Earl Attlee: My Lords, I would like to keep this non-partisan. All Governments put pressure on the Earl Attlee: My Lords, the noble Lord suggests that Government of the United States and other countries. this situation could go on indefinitely. My noble friend I am pleased to say that we have had some success with Lord King, who briefed me, told me that he had to Kazakhstan, which has managed to regularise its overdue deal with this issue during his time in office, so it is a parking fines. long-running problem. On the noble Lord’s second question, I understand that the mayor has had a chat with the President of the United States, but he still did Lord Pearson of Rannoch: My Lords, have the not get very far. Government made a study of how the United Kingdom pays similar fines in other jurisdictions? Do we obey their rules: is it only they who do not obey ours? How Lord Trefgarne: My Lords, will my noble friend do we stand elsewhere? forgive me if I rain on his parade? Is he aware that the collection of congestion charges by Transport for London is a pretty haphazard affair? Some of us have had the Earl Attlee: My Lords, the noble Lord makes an misfortune, and on at least two occasions, of an allegation extremely important point. Our diplomats are very that we had not paid when we had. careful to pay all outstanding charges when they are 119 Diplomatic Missions[LORDS] Investment Growth Forecast 120 [EARL ATTLEE] in the rate of corporation tax and strong growth in overseas. We discourage any parking offences and in profitability. The findings of independent surveys by the United States our diplomats pay toll charges, the CBI and the manufacturers’ organisation, the EEF, which are equivalent to our congestion charge. also suggest that manufacturing investment will increase in 2011. Lord Tebbit: My Lords— Lord Sheldon: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness Lord Avebury: My Lords— for that reply. On 28 April the Prime Minister said that there had been an increase in manufacturing output Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, my sense is that the and exports in the previous 12 months, but on 25 May House would like to hear from my noble friend Lord the EEF, the manufacturers’ organisation, commented Tebbit and then from my noble friend Lord Avebury. that although there was export growth, manufacturing investment was down. This was confirmed in June by Lord Tebbit: My Lords, could we not experiment the Project Management Institute. How does the noble with wheel clamping the CD-plated cars of particular Baroness consider these matters? embassies? That might have a good effect—and while we are about it, we could try wheel clamping one or Baroness Wilcox: There is no doubt that we have two Lib Dem Members of this House. gone through a soft period in the last three months. However, the latest surveys from the CBI and the EEF Earl Attlee: My Lords, I am sure that my noble suggest that output will grow overall in the second friend knows the details of the Vienna Convention on quarter of 2011, with manufacturers expecting growth Diplomatic Relations, under which diplomatic cars to continue well into the third quarter. are inviolable. Therefore, we cannot clamp them. Lord Razzall: My Lords, in the light of her Answer Lord Avebury: My Lords, perhaps I may make a and indeed the Question put by the noble Lord, Lord helpful suggestion. The Government should seek statutory Sheldon, might this not be a moment for the Minister power to tow away any vehicle that has been the to endorse the Statement last week by her colleague subject of several previous parking fines that remain the Business Secretary that Britain’s economy must unpaid.