Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 20 OCTOBER 1960

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions (20 OCTOBER] Questions 81~

THURSDAY, 20 OCTOBER, 1960 MALE UNEMPLOYMENT IN QUEENSLAND Mr. GILMORE (Tablelands), for Dr. Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, DELAMOTHE (Bowen), asked the Minister Murrumba) took the chair at 11 a.m. for Labour and Industry- "In view of the interjection by the AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT Honourable Member for Rockhampton North that the unemployment figures sup­ PUBLIC AccoUNTS plied by him in answer to my question Mr. SPEAKER announced the receipt on October 19 were not the latest, will he from the Auditor-General of his report on indicate the authority from which his the public accounts of the State for the year figures were compiled?" 1959-1960. Hon. K. J. MORRIS (:\It. Coot-tha) Ordered to be printed. replied- QUESTIONS "The figures quoted by me were as sup­ plied by the Commonwealth Department CONSTITUTION (DECLARATION OF RIGHTS) of Labour and National Service, Brisbane, BILL in the weekly return furnished to my Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Department and were received by me on Leader of the Opposition) asked the October 13, 1960. Each of my Cabinet Premier- colleagues watches employment and "In view of (a) the refusal of the unemployment figures very closely because Premier and his Government to agree to the each in his own Department is constantly request of the Opposition, supported by endeavouring to assist in the problem of the Queensland Labour Party and an seasonal unemployment. The proof that Independent Member of this House, to we are all working successfully in this field institute a judicial investigation of the is demonstrated by the fact that notwith­ grave charges made in this House on standing the drought conditions existing October 13 by the Honourable Member and the short beef killing season, figures for Fassifern, who indicted individuals and for male unemployment at September 30, groups of individuals as having attempted 1960, are 1,620 receiving Unemployment to intimidate and suborn him during the Benefit and 4,624 registered for employ­ exercise of his office as a Minister of the ment. I have frequently stated that I Crown, and (b) the Premier's promise, as believe that certain A.L.P. members have reported in 'The Courier-Mail' and the a vested interest in unemployment because 'Telegraph' of February 24, 1960, that a they appear to try at all times to present new Bill of Rights would be one of the comparisons which by using different bases first measures introduced in the August for comparison enable them to build up session of the new Parliament, will he an imaginative bogy. I deeply deplore now inform the House whether he proposes this type of cheap political chicanery, to honour his promise and introduce this but am not at all surprised to note that Bill, the primary aim of which, as he the Honourable Member for Rockhampton stated in this House on December 9, 1959, North in his characteristically irresponsible was to protect our democratic political and even psychiatric manner tried to cast institutions?" doubt on the truth of the figures I Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough) presented." replied- "The Government's intentions in this HIGH-LEVEL BRIDGE, BURDEKIN RIVER, regard will be announced at the appropriate MACROSSAN time." Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked MAIN ROADS EMPLOYEES, TOOWOOMBA the Minister for Transport- Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ "(1) Is it proposed to build a new high­ Leader of the Opposition) asked the Acting level railway bridge over the Burdekin Minister for Development, Mines, Main River at Macrossan?" Roads and Electricity- "What was the number of (a) truck "(2) If so, will the existing bridge be owner-drivers and (b) other employees dismantled and sold for scrap or used under the control of the supervising over­ elsewhere and, if not, to what use will seer, Mr. V. Carroll, at Toowoomba, at the present bridge be put?" May 30, 1960, and at October 15, 1960, and are any dismissals pending or contem­ Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) plated in the abovenamed categories?" replied- Hon. 0. 0. MADSEN (Warwick) replied- "(1) Yes. Tenders already have been invited for the work." "As at May 30, 1960-(a) 44; (b) 117. As at October 15, 1960-(a) 34; (b) 114. "(2) The use to which the exiStmg Dismissals pending or contemplated-(a) bridge could be put, or the materials 7 in about two weeks; (b) 15-20 in about contained therein used in other places, one month." is at present under consideration." 820 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL AsSISTANCE, CONSTRUCTION WoRK, HERBERTON­ ELIZABETHAN THEATRE TRUST WATSONVILLE ROAD Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked Mr. GILMORE (Tablelands) asked the the Minister for Transport- Acting Minister for Development, Mines, "(!) Does the Elizabethan Theatre Trust Main Roads and Electricity- receive any subsidy or any other form of "ln view of the preliminary construction monetary grant or assistance from the work on the first section of the Herberton State Government?" to Watsonville Road having been com­ pleted, will he give consideration to imme­ "(2) If so, is he aware that the Trust diate follow-up work so as to prevent does all its transporting of scenery, effects, damage in the next wet season and make &c., by road and not by rail?" the road useable to the people of that "(3) How does this fit in with the pro­ area?" fessed desire of the Government to reduce Hon. 0. 0. MADSEN (Warwick) replied- the railway deficit?" "The scheme now approaching comple­ Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) tion provides only for clearing and replied- grubbing with access tracks for future "(1, 2 and 3) I refer the Honourable works, and preliminary drainage as first Member to page 14 of the Estimates of stage construction on an alignment pro­ the Probable Ways and Means and jected from an investigation survey. Before Expenditure of the Government of Queens­ further works can be done, a working land for the year ending June 30, 1961, survey is essential to determine the earth­ from which he will observe that a grant works required and to design the drainage. of £6,000 is made by the Government This survey will be done when a surveyor to the Australian Elizabethan Theatre can be made available, probably at the Trust. This grant is not made for the end of this month. Unfortunately, further purpose of meeting transport costs, but is funds to the extent required to complete a grant for general purposes and, as such, the earthworks and drainage and for the it is not subject to conditions of the nature gravelling of the section could not be implied by the Honourable Member's provided during the current financial year, question. However, I would point out but it is proposed to allocate funds for that because of the nature of the scenery, further work during 1961-1962." the delicate manner in which it must be handled and the need for quick move­ TENDER BY MR. G. BOOKER FOR THEODORE ment from place to place, permits for HOSPITAL travel by road are granted, on application, to touring theatrical bodies." Mr. THACKERAY (Rockhampton North) asked the Minister for Public Works and Local Government- INCOME TAX REIMBURSEMENT GRANTS, 1960-1961 "(!) As the lowest tender for the con­ struction of the Theodore Hospital was Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) asked the first accepted and then withdrawn, on Treasurer and Minister for Housing- what grounds was the second lowest tender "What is the tax grant to each State for of G. Booker, Rockhampton, not accepted?" 1960-1961 expressed in terms of a per "(2) Has the deposit on the contract price capita basis?" submitted been refunded to G. Booker, Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth) replied- Rockhampton?" "The Financial Assistance Grants for Hon. L. H. S. ROBERTS (Whitsunday) 1960-1961, which are based on population replied- as at July 1, 1960, and average wages "(!) The lowest tender submitted by paid in 1959-1960, have not yet been Mr. E. Rosenblatt was not accepted before finally determined by the Commonwealth its withdrawal. Mr. G. J. Booker's tender Statistician, as required by the States was not accepted because as a result of Grants Act, 1959. However, estimates by enquiries made it was considered that he the Statistician of the grants payable in would not be able to carry out the work 1960-1961, expressed on a per capita basis, satisfactorily within the time specified. It utilising the projected estimate of mean is prescribed in the Conditions of Tender­ population for 1960-1961, are-New ing of the Department of Public Works South Wales, £23 10s. lld., Victoria that I shall not be bound to accept the £22 19s. ld.; Queensland, £26 16s. 4d.; South Australia, £32 1s. 6d.; Western lowest or any tender." Australia, £37 lls. 8d.; Tasmania, "(2) A cheque in refund of the deposit £33 15s. 6d.; · six ·States average, lodged by Mr. Booker with his tender was £25 19s. lld." posted to him yesterday." Questions [20 OcroBER] Questions 821

NEW RAILWAY STATION AND GOODS SHED, forms for the two-yearly medical examina­ MT. IsA tions of winding engine driv.ers should be made out to the Government Medical Mr. INCH (Burke) asked the Minister for Officer despite the fact that the Mines Act Transport- does not specify that these examinations "(!) Is he aware of the fact that due to are to be conducted by the Government the congestion of goods and shortage of Medical Officer?" space in the railway goods shed at Mt. Isa, "(2) If such an instruction has been 17 wagons of goods were waiting to be issued, why has it been issued?" unloaded on October 10, and that in consequence of this shortage of space and "(3) As the Act only provides for the the piling up of these wagons of goods the necessary certificate to be i~sued by a general public and business people of this medical practitioner, will he withdraw this town continue to suffer undue delay in instruction and thereby restore t_he right to the delivery of their goods?" the examinee to have the examination carried out by a medical practitioner of his "(2) Is he also aware of the fact that own choice?" there is only one toilet at the goods shed to serve the needs of the staff, general Hon. 0. 0. MADSEN (Warwick) replied­ carriers and transport drivers and that a "(1) Yes." section of this toilet is partly exposed to the public gaze?" "(2) The Mines Regulation Acts and the Coal Mining Acts provide that holders of "(3) Is he prepared to recommend the Winding Licenses are required to have construction of a toilet block of sufficient their medical certificates renewed every size to cope with present-day and future two years or at such time or times as the requirements?" owner, manager, or inspector may require. "(4) In view of the deplorable state of As a measure of assistance to the the railway station and goods shed at Mt. Mining Industry and to facilitate the Isa which are no longer adequate to meet regular renewal of such certificates, the the requirements of the travelling public Department has for many years met the and business people, and having regard to whole cost of renewal examinations by the heavy increase in population and the having such examinations included in the rapid expansion of this district over the duties of Government Medical Officers. past decade together with the phenomenal No cost is then incurred by the Winding increase in revenue received by the Depart­ License holder. Generally this arrange­ ment through this station and goods shed, ment has proved eminently satisfactory to will he recommend the immediate con­ all concerned." struction of a new railway station, high­ level platform and goods shed at Mt. Isa?" "(3) If the license holder is prepared to make the necessary arrangements and meet Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) the whole cost of the medical examination, replied- the Department will offer no objection to his tendering a certificate from another "( I, 2, 3, 4) Strong representations have medical practitioner." been made to me over a period, much longer than the Honourable Member has been in this House, requesting improved RAILWAY FREIGHTS ON FERTILISERS station and goods shed facilities at Mt. Isa. In August last I made a personal inspection Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough), for of the facilities and whole-heartedly agree Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis), asked the that the conditions which have apparently Minister for Transport- existed there over many years are an "(1) In respect of the recent increase indictment on previous Governments. in freight rates. is it true that the freight Immediately on my return to Brisbane, I rates on fertilisers have in fact been discussed this matter with the Consultants increased by approximately forty-three per of the complete Mt. Isa Rail Project and centum as a result of these rates being the Honourable Member can be assured first re-classified and then subjected to a that within the term of this Government a general increase of twenty per centum?" new railway station and goods shed-in keeping with the importance which the "(2) In view of the extreme difficulties Railway Department is playing in the primary industries are at present suffer­ development of Mt. Isa-will be built." ing, will he reconsider these rates?" Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS, WINDING ENGINE replied- DRIVERS "The percentage increase in manure rates varies according to the distance of Mr. INCH (Burke) asked the Acting haulage. The increase to the old 'M' class Minister for Development, Mines, Main represented:-36.5 per cent for 100 miles, Roads and Electricity- 20.1 per cent. for 200 miles, 31.4 per "(1) Has any instruction been issued to cent. for 400 miles, and, as stated, the 'M' Mines Inspectors to the effect that authority class was increased by 20 per cent. Manure 822 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Supply

rates have always been very low and, in SUPPLY fact, most uneconomical to the Railway Department. Whilst it is realised that the COMMITTEE-FINANCIAL ST.\TEMENT­ increase will mean some revision in the RESUMPTION OF DEBATE marketing of the product, it must be (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, appreciated by all that it is unfair to expect Clayfield, in the chair.) the Railways to carry the commodity at a loss. Too long has the Railway Depart­ Debate resumed from 19 October (see ment collected odium in relation to certain p. 818) on Mr. Hiley's motion- losses, when, in fact, the Department has "That there be granted to Her Majesty by uneconomical freight rates been actually for the service of the year 1960-1961, ~ subsidising and keeping alive many indus­ sum not exceeding £1,365 to defray the tries. It might be of interest to note that salary of Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency fertiliser can be hauled by road tax free the Governor." under the "State Transport Facilities Acts" Mr. DIPLOCK (Aubigny) (11.25 a.m.): I but, because of the low return, I know of am confident that the facts and figures quoted very few short or long distances hauliers by me yesterday will convince the hon. who include such product in their loading." member for Condamine that the accommoda­ tion at the school he mentioned, Barakula, PARK LANDS, METROPOLITAN SUBDIVISIONS was both adequate and ample. This accom­ modation would only be a reflection of the Mr. DAVIES (Maryborough), for previous Labour Government's sympathetic Mr. NEWTON (Belmont), asked the Minister attitude towards the wants of country chil­ for Public Works and Local Government- dren. I understand that the hon. member is "(1) Is he aware that the City of to go to the area very shortly to open the Brisbane Act states that five. per centum new school. I make the very respectful of all land subdivided must be set aside suggestion to him that, when he goes, he for parks and recreational use, but that invites the hon. member for Roma, who such land being set aside by subdividers, said that the school had to be renewed, to including Government Housing Com­ accompany him. If he does that both hon. mission projects, is of the roughest nature members will know that what I have said is and would cost huge sums of money to correct. convert?" Mr. Aikens: He will claim that vou did "(2) Would he give some assurance that nothing and he did the lot. · in future subdivisions the full intention of Mr. DIPLOCK: At least he will know the Act will be honoured and that suitable how to get there. land is set aside for parks and recreational use?'' - The fact that religious instruction is included in the curriculum in primary schools Hon. L. H. S. ROBERTS (Whitsunday) is sufficient evidence that it has been regarded replied- as a necessary and vital part of a child's "(1) The City of Brisbane Acts do not education. contain the provision mentioned. Chapter The CHAIRMAN: Order! The conversa­ 8 of the Council's Ordinances vests certain tion between hon. members is getting too powers relating to subdivision of land in loud. I can hardly hear the hon. member the Council Registration Board." for Aubigny. "(2) I have no power to direct the Mr. DIPLOCK: Whether a child receives Council or the Council Registration Board that instruction according to the teachings in such matters." of the Anglican church, the Roman Catholic church, the Methodist church, the Presby­ DECLARATION OF DROUGHT-STRICKEN AREAS, terian church, or any other church, is no LOGAN ELECTORATE business of mine; it is no concern of mine, Mr. HARRISON (Logan), without notice nor would I say that it is the concern of the asked the Minister for Transport- ' State. But it is my concern, the concern of every hon. member of the Committee, and "In view of the continuing drought con­ the concern of the State that every child ditions existing in my electorate, would should receive instruction in the funda­ the Minister give consideration to declar­ mental principles of Christianity. ing drought-stricken the areas from Kuraby to Pimpama, and from Bethania to Beau .. Sufficient religious instruction has not been desert?" given in schools in the past, but that has not been the fault of either the teachers or Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) the ministers who visit the schools. Bible­ replied- reading, which is included in the school "Steps are being taken to declare drought­ syllabus, has been uninteresting. Without stricken the areas referred to by the hon. adequate explanation from the teacher member and a rebate of 50 per cent. off the average child has not been able the rail freight on fodder for starving stock to understand it. Time is allowed in consigned to stock-owners will be allowed school timetables to permit the visits of as from Thursday, 27 October." ministers of religion, but because of the Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 823 shortage of staff and other commitments language. The committee could comprise ministers have not been able to make regular teachers and clergymen and a scheme could visits. Bible-reading taken by teachers has not be worked out that would eliminate the assisted in any way. In many instances the disorganisation that now occurs in schools. internal organisation of schools has been I feel that teachers on the opposite side of disturbed because of periods during which the Chamber will agree with everything I some children are receiving religious instruc­ have said. tion while others are not. If we believe that religious instruction is a vital part of Mr. Windsor: Do you think it would education, in so believing we are only in help if tests in religion were provided? line with the authorities in England, Scot­ Mr. Aikens: They never help anybody. land and Ulster. If we believe that religious instruction is vital in the education of the Mr. DIPLOCK: I would not suggest any child, we should take steps either to teach tests. it efficiently or delete it from the curriculum. Under present conditions we could be doing Mr. Windsor: Perhaps I should have said more harm than good. "examinations". Mr. Ramsden: How would we be doing Mr. DIPLOCK: As matters stand at pre­ more harm? sent I should say that there would not be a 5 per cent. pass, and even that might be Mr. DIPLOCK: Because it is taught ineffi­ an over-estimation if Bible-reading were ciently and anything that is taught inefficiently tested. May I stress the point that could do more harm than good. neither the department nor the Government Mr. Ramsden: It is taught by the teacher. nor anybody else can lay any blame at the feet of the teacher or the minister of Mr. DIPLOCK: The teacher has very little religion. The different churches are short to do with it. As I said early in my speech, of staff just as the department is. Some no blame can be laid at the feet of the scheme will have to be evolved by which teacher. all parties interested in this important and vital subject will co-operate and work out Mr. Coburn: In effect, there is no teaching some means of teaching it efficiently in State nt all. schools. I compliment the Government on Mr. DIPLOCK: That is quite true. All the increasing the number of transport services teacher does is supervise the class in the in the country, but I have an observation reading of these books which are, unfortu­ to make and I have good reason for making nately, unattractive and uninteresting. I it. The idea of the Labour Government in should say that in 99 per cent. of cases, introducing these transport services was to particularly in the junior classes, they are provide every possible facility to enable the not understood by the children. country child to receive education. That being so, more or less every application, Mr. Ramsden: Your remarks would apply during my term as Minister, was treated on principally to country schools? its merits, and very often transport services were granted when there were only nine or Mr. DIPLOCK: No, they apply to all 10 applicants. I know the regulation says schools. I have not taught only in country an average of nine must be maintained, and schools; I have taught in city schools and that because of that regulation some applica­ I feel that the disorganisation that is experi­ tions have been refused because 11 or 12 enced in the country schools is also experi­ children have not been involved. Depart­ enced in city schools. I am not laying any mental records will show that very often charge on this Government for the con­ not only during my term as Minister but ditions that exist. This position has existed also during the terms of office of previous for as long as I can remember. Ministers applications received favourable Mr. Ramsden: I am not suggesting that consideration when the number was nin'l' you were. only, because it was thought that if we treated the applicants a little generously they Mr. DIPLOCK: My suggestion is that we would do everything possible to ensure that either do it properly and efficiently, or not the average was maintained. at all. I was rather amazed to read an article Mr. Coburn: In Bible-reading, if there in the "Telegraph" yesterday under the inch­ were interpretation there would be varying letter caption, "Remove Unworthy Men interpretations according to the different from the Police Force." attributed to the teachers? Minister for Labour and Industry. It read- "Unworthy members were few, but they Mr. DIPLOCK: I should think there harmed every member of the service." would be. I suggest that the Government give consideration to setting up a committee "In such a large force it could be to consider presenting the Bible stories to expeGted there would be some who were the children, particularly in the junior grades, not worthy of their position." in a much more attractive and interesting I do not think such a statement is in the manner than at present and in simple best interests of the Police Force. If the 824 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Minister acknowledges the fact that there Mr. DIPLOCK: No. I disagree neither are unworthy members in the Force, his job with him nor with the hon. member for is to get rid of them, not to advertise to South Brisbane. I am speaking from my the public that they are there and are harm­ experience. As a thinking citizen the hon. ing other members of the Force. member would not expect me to agree with him, or disagree with him, other than in I did not take part in the debate on the the light of my experience. That would be Police Acts Amendment Bill because I could the fair way, would it not? That would not conscientiously do so inasmuch as I had be the British way of doing it, and that is no evidence that would enable me to take an what I have done. I do not disagree with honest interest or part in it. Other hon. the hon. member; he has spoken according members claimed to have some such evi­ to his experience and I am speaking only dence, but it has been my experience over a from mine. long time and in many parts of the State that not one policeman with whom I have I notice with pleasure the increase of come in contact has done anything of a dis­ £1,783,065 in the Vote for the Department honest or unworthy nature. If captions such of Health and Home Affairs. I think the as the one I have referred to are to be increase is very necessary. I appeal to the featured in the Press, the people of Queens­ Minister to use some of that money to pro­ land will begin to look in every nook and vide either a new section or considerable corner for the policeman who is not worthy improvements at the maternity block of the of the office he occupies. Dalby Hospital. The Minister opened there a wonderful block that was provided by the The police in the area I represent carry Labour Government. I am assured by many out their duties without fear or favour, women who have been confined in the mater­ and therefore we have very little lawlessness nity block that if they were ever again in in the district. After a long experience with the same position they would certainly travel youths, I do not agree with the featuring farther afield. Large sums of money are of bodgies in newspapers almost as film spent to make our migrants welcome-and I stars, nor do I agree that we should use kid think we should make them comfortable­ gloves in dealing with them. They under­ but a modern maternity block is just as stand only one language and that is hard essential to the people of Dalby as making language. migrants welcome to our shores. Mr. Aikens: A good kick in the pants. Mr. Aikens: What do you think of the suggestion by the metropolitan, city-slicker Mr. DIPLOCK: I compliment the police­ members that they should have ermine­ man who is prepared to take a firm stand covered couches in their rooms? in dealing with them. Mr. DIPLOCK: I would be agreeable Mr. Aikens: The present Minister for Jus­ even to that if they provided them in the tice would take action against the policeman maternity block at Dalby. because he did not use kid gloves. I stressed yesterday that although I am Mr. DIPLOCK: Well, that may be his way not doubting that the figures quoted are of dealing with the position. From my correct, I doubt that they are a true indica­ experience that is not the right way, because tion of the unemployment problem. in Dalby, and probably in other country towns, we have no vandalism. We have no I said previously, and I reiterate, that the large gangs causing the peace to be dis­ Government should consider allowing coun­ turbed because the police keep a firm hand try abattoirs to function as they did some over them, and that is the only treatment time ago and let country-killed beef, pro­ they understand. vided it is killed under Government super­ vision, be supplied to the city. I appeal to When the population of Brisbane is con­ the members of the Country Party to sup­ sidered, the number of louts-youths who port me in this matter because it affects call themselves bodgies and are referred to the man on the land more than anybody as bodgies-is not very great. If the police else. It was referred to frequently in the are allowed to take a firm hand they will ·election campaign, and many responsible stamp them out. Country Party candidates and members I come now to the transport police. Cer­ assured the people they would give con­ tain transport drivers have come to me and sideration to it. asked me to present their case. They have Mr. COBURN (Burdekin) (11.45 a.m.): said that certain irregularities were being Many and varied have been the contribu­ practised by the police. When I said to tions of hon. members to the debate on the them, "Who was the policeman concerned? Financial Statement presented by the Who were the people who were prepared to Treasurer to the Committee on 29 September bribe the police?" they ran for cover. It is last. Except for about two speakers, it has a very easy matter for anyone to defame a been crystal clear that there has been a dis­ policeman, or someone else, if he has not position to avoid discussion on the actual to stand up and prove what he says. Budget and to discuss matters that have Mr. Bennett: Do you disagree with the little or no reference to it. Members of the hon. member for Bundaberg? Opposition have described the Budget as an Supply [20 OcTOBER] Supply 825 employers' Budget, as an anti-working-class that the hon. member for Gympie, the hon. Budget, as a timid Budget, as a cautious member for Carnarvon and the hon. mem­ Budget, and as a stay-put Budget; but none ber for Fassifern did protest strongly against of them has endeavoured to justify the name what they consider is an inadequate alloca­ he has applied to it or to prove to the satis­ tion for further development of irrigation faction of hon. members and of the public projects. Apart from that, there was no of Queensland that it is appropriate. criticism of the Financial Statement that Mr. Thackeray: It is clear now why there I heard or read. is Liberal opposition to the Country Party. The criticism generally was of the refusal of the Commonwealth Government to assist Mr. COBURN: When we get a little Queensland financially to a greater degree silence from the hon. member for Rock­ than it has, and I think it could be truth­ hampton North-- fully said that every hon. member, includ­ Mr. Aikens: How can we ever expect to ing the Treasurer, agrees with that view. It get that? is rightly claimed that other States, notably South Australia and Western Australia, and Mr. COBURN: He does not even know to a lesser degree, Victoria, Tasmania, and that the Budget has been presented. New South Wales, have received much more favourable treatment than Queensland from Mr. Thackeray: I will have something to the Commonwealth Government, by way of say on the Budget, never fear. special financial grants in addition to those Mr. Aikens: He would not know the made under the Commonwealth-States difference between "Budget" and "Bridget." Financial Agreement. The Commonwealth's financial contribution to the Snowy Mr. COBURN: To apply a name to any­ Mountains Scheme and the Albury to thing is the simplest matter in the world but Melbourne uniform gauge railway line are to justify its application and support it with not matched by an~ similar grants to evidence is much more difficult. Not only Queensland. Although forceful and consistent have those speakers who applied names to representations were made to the Common­ the Budget failed to prove that they are wealth Government for monetary aid in the appropriate; they have not even attempted to construction of the Burdekip dam, the do so. They have simply applied the name Collinsville-Mt. Isa railway line, and roads and then dismissed the matter from further into the Channel Country, they have all been consideration. It would be the easiest thing unsuccessful. in the world to call a black cat "Snowy," a white cat "Darky," or a man 6 feet 6 inches This is not a reflection on the State tall "Stumpy." But to expect anybody but Treasurer, nor on his Financial Statement. If the most stupid to accept the designation as it could be proved that the State Treasurer truly descriptive of the thing named is to had not forcibly and consistently tried to expect credulity that is not to be found in obtain these special grants from the Com­ intelligent people. monwealth Government, criticism of him would be fully justified. But nobody has No argument was advanced to prove that criticised him in that way, nor has anybody the Budget was an employers' Budget-! shown that he has been remiss in his duty should have liked to hear some argument as Treasurer and not done all he could to get attempting to prove it-nor has argument these grants for Queensland. Queensland has been advanced to prove that it was an anti­ received the full amount to which it is entitled working-class man's Budget or a timid under the Commonwealth-States Financial Budget. I am sure that all of us would Agreement. Any extra grants are solely the have been pleased to learn why the hon. result of a decision that must be made by member who applied the name did so, and the Commonwealth Government. If these to discover if he had cogent reasons for grants to which we believe we are justifiably applying it. In each case, however, he simply said, "You accept the name I apply as a entitled fail to materialise, then our criticism, suitable one because I say it is," without trenchant though we desire to make it, must giving any proof whatever in support of it. be of the Commonwealth Government. The implication was, "Do not question my Mr. Aikens: And our own Federal wisdom in applying it; accept it blindly." members. One would have expected an analysis of Mr. COBURN: And of our own Federal the Budget and the presentation of argu­ members, although, of course, some of them ments to show unmistakably that it was what have tried unsuccessfully to obtain what we in the speakers called it; but such a procedure this Chamber advocate should be given to us. was conspicuous by its absence. There is In discussing the Financial Statement no assistance to be gained from an attitude presented to Parliament by the Treasurer, we such as that, and I am sure the Treasurer must first clearly understand that the drew nothing from it. Treasurer has at his disposal a limited, The salient point of the discussion so far specified amount of money that he must has been the failure of hon. members to allocate to the various State departments for either condemn or praise the Financial State­ services and for the implementation of ment. I must qualify that remark by saying developmental projects for the advancement 826 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply and wellbeing of Queensland. He is not a Honourable Members interjected. conjurer who can take millions of pounds out of the air to supplement existing funds. The CHAIRMAN: Order! He can deal only with the funds at his disposal. Because of the adoption by the Mr. COBURN: Therefore the Treasurer's Commonwealth and the States of uniform task was to allocate the amount at his disposal taxation-up to this stage of the Budget equitably to the various departments in the best interests of Queensland for essential de~at~ I have not heard anybody oppose that rpnnciple-most of the State's revenue is services and development. Little criticism obtained from the Commonwealth and is has been levelled at this allocation, with the comprised of Commonwealth• Financial exception of three hon. memebrs who Assistance Grant, allocation of loans approved expressed deep concern at the small amount by the Loan Council, and the Common­ allocated for the development of irrigation wealth Aid Roads Grant. projects. I must admit that I share their concern. But to enable this to be done from Mr. Hilton: Don't you know that there where is the Treasurer to obtain the necessary has been a High Court decision on it? finance? Mr. COBURN: The hon. member never Mr. Lloyd: Why are you making excuses opposed it. for him? Mr. Hilton: Don't you know that there has been a High Court decision on it? Mr. COBURN: I am not making any excuses. I am making a logical and sensible Mr. COBURN: If there has been any analysis of the Budget as it is, and that is attempt to alter the system of uniform taxa­ more than the hon. member did. tion it has been done so quietly that nobody knows about it. Mr. Lloyd: Your obligation to your electors In addition to this source of revenue the is to be critical. ~tate has a restricted field in which it has Imposed taxes and duties, the most substan­ Mr. COBURN: My obligation is not to be tial amount received from these sources critical; my obligation is to be sensible. That being from probate and succession duties is what I mean to be. I do not want to be stamp duties and land tax. There are still critical of things that I think are right. I unexploited fields in which the Treasurer am critical only of things that are wrong. could impose taxation, but nobody during Before I finish my speech I shall offer the debate has been bold enough to suggest some criticism of what I consider to be that he should expand the fields of taxation. wrong in the Budget. I have not finished Nobody has shown whence additional revenue yet. If the hon. member knew the old adage is obtainable, except from the Commonwealth he would know that it is wise to "Praise Government, and as all efforts to obtain it a fine day at night." Should the Treasurer from them have. failed we must accept the take money from the amount allocated to fact that the estimated amount available to the Department of Education? They say, the Treasurer for allocation is £109,923,450. "No, no. no, don't take it from there!" In view of the Commonwealth's adamant Should he reduce expenditure on services refusal t? grant the State any more, the only indispensible to a civilised community such way to mcrease the amount is by additional as State schools, on which more than two­ State taxation. Apparently no critic of the thirds of the allocation is spent? Should Budget will approve of that being done. it come from the Queensland University, technical education, practical education in Mr. Hilton: Do you think Queensland State schools, the Teachers' College, the should be a participator under the Grants Gatton Agricultural High School and College, Commission? endowment fees and allowances for secondary Mr. COBURN: I do, but both the education, schools for the blind and the deaf, Treasurer and the Premier did their best to adult education, the museum, the art gallery, get the Commonwealth to grant that conces­ the Queensland Conservatorium of Music or the Library Board of Queensland? Do they ~ion to us, and they failed. My criticism suggest we should take it from any of those IS not of the two who tried to have it done hut of those who refused to do it. services? Mr. Hilton: They withdrew their applica­ Mr. Aikens: They could get more money tion. by reducing Parliamentarian's salaries, but they won't suggest that. Mr. COBURN: There was no alternative. It is . no use banging your head up against Mr. COBURN: Not only do they not put a bnck wall when you realise there is no that suggestion forward, they do not put chance of getting anything done. any suggestion forward. They give advice Mr. Davies interjected. on what should be done but no suggestions as to how it should be done. Is anybody _Mr. COBURN: "'Orrible 'Orrace," as my so lacking in appreciation of the value of fnend from Townsville South calls him is education as to suggest that the allocation coming in. It would be better if he kept 'out to the Department of Education should be of this for a while. reduced? Supply (20 OCTOBER] Supply 827

Could it be suggested, then, that less they are not being conducted efficiently and money be made available to the Depart­ in the public interest. The Treasurer has ment of Health and Home Affairs, thus stated very clearly in his Financial State­ making it necessary to curtail the services ment that it has been his and his officers' rendered by public hospitals on which almost constant endeavour to see two desirable two-thirds of the allocation to the Depart­ features in the loan programme, first, the ment of Health and Home Affairs is element of recoverability, and, second, that expended? Had that been done it would of return. The great advantage of placing probably have meant the overthrow of our loan money where it is readily recoverable free hospitalisation scheme. or where it will give a return is too obvious to need stressing. There are many services Mr. Thackeray: Who are "we"? -mainly in the fields of education, health, scientific research, development and provision Mr. COBURN: We, the Parliament, the of public buildings-from which the money hon. member among them. is not recoverable and from which no monet­ Is it suggested it should come from the ary return is obtained. But such services Department of Native Affairs, from the are of such inestimable value to the State Maternal and Child Welfare Centre, the Fire that to neglect them would be criminal, and Brigades, the Mental Hygiene Department or so the Treasurer, although he would like­ the State Children Department? Hon. mem­ as anybody would-to invest money which bers of the Opposition will not agree that could be recovered or which would give a money should be taken from those services, return. is obliged in the interests of the State yet they want more money to come from to spend a reasonable proportion of it in somewhere. They do not tell the Treasurer those avenues that I have just enumerated. or his officers where it is to come from. When one studies the allocations of expen­ Would they suggest a reduction in the grant diture from £29.4 million of loan funds to churches and charitable institutions for available to the Treasurer for the current the establishment of homes for the aged and financial year, which show that expenditure infirm or the training centres for crippled with full recoverability and return is £8.9 and sub-normal children? Would they million, that expenditure with partial recover­ advocate that, as a means of obtaining the ability and/or return is £2.3 million and that extra money that would be required to pro­ expenditure that produces neither direct vide the proposed extra services desired by return nor recoverability is £18.2 million, some hon. members? No-one has told us one is forced to the conclusion that the where it should come from, because no-one allocations have been judicious, although knows. there is still the hope, which all this analysis and deep consideration does not dispel, that The Treasurer has experienced officers in more could have been allocated for major his department and it is only after a search­ irrigation works. ing scrutiny of the money available and the work to be done that the available funds I am convinced that in the final analysis have been allocated in the manner set out the chief factor in the retardation of the in the Budget and in a way that will bring development of our industries, both primary the greatest benefit to the State. and secondary, will be the inadequacy of water supplies. I have been a consistent After listening to and reading what has advocate in this Chamber for the damming been said during this debate I cannot find of the Burdekin River at The Falls. I have any suggestions for an alternative Budget. urged the Premier and all members of his That can be constructed only as acceptance Government to do their utmost to induce and approval of it. the Commonwealth Government to make funds available for the implementation of Mr. Davies: Did you read the Premier's this great national scheme. I have a very statement in Townsville? firm conviction that the State has an Mr. COBURN: I am dealing with what unanswerable case for the participation by was said here, not what was said in Towns­ the Commonwealth in expenditure on our ville. great developmental projects. At Clare. Millaroo and Dalbeg-all within my elec­ Some moneys expended by the Govern­ torate in the Ayr district-£6,000,000 has ment, as we all realise, are recoverable, while been expended in settling tobacco-growers some are not; some give a return, and some on the land. Little if any of this expenditure do not. In respect of others there are is recoverable by the State, and the return substantial losses, notably in the railways and from it will barely cover expenses incurred the State enterprises such as coal mines and in providing services. Admittedly the Com­ coke works. But as those instrumentalities monwealth Government did assist at Clare play an important part in Queensland's which is a soldier settlement. On the development we accept these losses without Mareeba-Dimbulah project approximately criticism so long as we are assured that the £20,000,000 was spent, little if any of which enterprises are conducted efficiently and in is recoverable and from which the return to the public interest. If they are not so con­ the State Treasury will be almost negligible. ducted it is the duty of every member of The Commonwealth Government on the con­ this Chamber to point out in what respect trary, will be the principal beneficiary from 828 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the completion of these and similar schemes, Treasury officers-! have heard no criticism and the return that will flow to the Com­ of it from anybody-with considerable profit monwealth Treasury will be substantial. to the Consolidated Revenue Fund, and for such skilful handling of funds, which other­ Mr. Aikens: Through taxation. wise would have lain dormant and conse­ Mr. COBURN: Through taxation, of quently have been unproductive, I highly course. commend those responsible. During the last financial year short-term investments earned Mr. Hilton: And excise. £93,569, which can be regarded only as a very handsme contribution to the Consoli­ Mr. COBURN: Income tax will be levied dated Revenue Fund. and collected on the growers' and workers' incomes; excise duty will be imposed on the The increase by £601,657 in the total tobacco sold; sales tax on goods will be amount expended on subsidies on loans to collected and pay-roll tax will further swell local bodies indicates quite clearly that the the amount considerably. The return to the local authorities are spending more money State for its expenditure of approximately on works that are subsidizable, and are thus ~26,00.0,000 on these two projects will be at least keeping up their level of employ­ mcons1derable, while the return to the Com­ ment. They may not necessarily be under­ monwealth that contributed nothing directly taking more work because the same amount to the expenditure on the developmental of work now involves a greater expenditure work will be substantial. than previously. Like the State Government, This arrangement reminds me of the story the local authorities are required to pay of the two fellows who decided to purchase a increased wages and salaries following the cow. After the purchase it was agreed that granting of "margins" and the readjustment each should own half the cow. To one of of the basic wage by quarterly adjustments, and also to pay more for the materials they t~em-the duller one, I should think-was given the front half of the animal and as his purchase for use in the works they under­ allocation contained the head it was his take. If the subsidies to local authorities are obligation to feed the cow. To the other reduced-and this warning has been given by fellow-the wiser orre, I should think-was the Treasurer-it will mean that each local giyen the back half, and as that portion con­ authority will have to increase its present tamed the organs that supplied the milk he rate or reduce the amount of work under­ claimed all the milk. One was respon~ible taken and thereby bring about unemploy­ for the expenditure on the feed and the other ment. Neither of these alternatives is desir­ able. On the contrary, because of the appli­ collected the money from the sale of the cation of a new formula of financial assis­ milk. .It will be admitted that this arrange­ tance, grants under the States Grants Act. of ment Is analogous to the financial arrange­ 1959 to replace the formula for tax reim­ ment between the States and the Common­ bursement grants previously in operation, wealth on the expenditure on developmental projects. It gives us an unanswerable argu­ there is a tenable argument for an increase in the percentage rate of subsidy to local ment for a greater participation by the Com­ authorities on present subsidizable expendi­ monwealth in developmental schemes of both ture on works. It should be increased rather State and national importance. than decreased. Mr. Davies interjected. Mr. Aikens: Where will they get the Mr. COBURN: The difference betweeen money? the hon. member and me is that I have thought, and he has not. Mr. COBURN: My friend asks where tile money will come from. Under the new The anomalous situation created in terms States Grants Act, we are allowed an extra of the Savings Bank Amalgamation Agree­ amount because of the increase in the average ment whereby Queensland will receive so Commonwealth basic wage. As it is granted to much less from moneys raised by the Com­ the State, it should be passed on to the local monwealth on behalf of the States as is authorities. We get the increase not only for equivalent to the amount that Queensland is increased population but also for the successful in raising loans from the Common­ increased average weekly wage. In addition, wealth Savings Bank in terms of the agree­ we are allowed a small margin of one-tenth. ment must be corrected at the earliest oppor­ tunity-which, I regret to say, will not be Mr. Hilton: Where is that money being until 1965-either by terms in a new agree­ allocated at the present time? ment that will place Queensland on an equal Mr. Aikens: Mostly to Brisbane. footing with other States that have estab­ lished a State savings bank, or by establishing Mr. Hilton: I am asking the hon. member. a Queensland State Savings Bank. I prefer the latter course. Mr. COBURN: Which grant does the hon. member mean? The investment of surplus funds in the short-term money market "at call" as cash, Mr. Hilton: You are referring to the extra has obviously been undertaken in a very allocations under the new financial formula. business-like manner by the Treasurer and the Where is that money being allocated now? Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 829

Mr. COBURN: It has been allocated since the States Grants Act. In his Financial State­ 1959. ment the Treasurer left no doubt about the tremendous impact of the railways on the Mr. Hilton: But where? economy of Queensland. The cash deficit Mr. COBURN: I will deal with that fully last year was £2,637,217 and interest on the in a minute. reduced capital invested in railways was £3,159,984, making a total loss of £6,597,201. Mr. Hilton: But, on your argument a The policy adopted in an endeavour to pre­ while ago, which services are benefiting from vent a recurrence of last year's railway deficit it? is to increase fares and freights and to close certain lines where losses have been sub­ Mr. COBURN: That will depend on the stantial. Increased freights will mean next Budget. The money is included in the £109,000,000 that has already been allocated. increased cost of living, an increased cost of What the Treasurer does with what he gets living will lead to higher quarterly adjust­ for the next financial year is his business; ments, and higher quarterly adjustments will if it is not satisfactory to us, then it is for result in a higher pay-out in wages and us to criticise. salaries by the Government, thus taking from the Treasury much of what it gains Mr. Lloyd: The Comomnwealth Govern­ from freight increases. Thus the situation ment got it this year. created becomes a vicious circle. It would be interesting to know whether the Treasurer Mr. COBURN: I will deal with that aspect or his Treasury officers have undertaken but let me deal with it in my own way. The research to enable them to ascertain Commonwealth will increase appreciably the fairly accurately the net benefit that will grant to the States next financial year to accrue to the Treasury from the increases in compensate for the increased costs due to freights and fares when increased wages and margins and basic wage quarterly adjust­ salaries due to increased costs of living, in ments. It is reasonable to expect that the turn due solely to increased freight rates, State will similarly compensate the local are taken into consideration. Our whole authorities. I do not desire at the moment system of re-adjusting wages and salaries to digress on that, as the hon. member for depends entirely on the "C" Series Index Kedron is trying to get me to do. At present used by the Commonwealth Court of Con­ I am dealing with the attitude of the ciliation and Arbitration. Because of that, Treasurer towards local authorities and I anything that contributes to an increase in want to confine myself to that subject. I will the cost of living contributes to an increase deal with the matter of new grants at a later in the average wage and salary, and conse­ stage in my speech. quently puts a much greater burden on all If the State, by decreasing the percentage State departments in their payrolls. I sug­ rate of subsidy payable, forces the local gest that it would be wise for the Treasurer authorities to increase rates, that is a veiled to establish a research branch within his way of increasing taxation with the criticism department to study the net results of actions for it being levelled at the local authorities, such as these to ascertain whether their because they were the ones who directly application is justified. I am informed that increased the rate though virtually they had an increase of 1s. in the basic wage means no alternative when the State reduced the an extra expenditure of £50,000 a year by rates of subsidy. the Education Department alone, so the increase in the State payroll as a corollary I was pleased to hear the Treasurer say to the increase in the basic wage directly that no change in the rates of subsidy to local traceable to increased freights could exceed authorities is envisaged before 30 June, 1961, the amount collected by the Railway Depart­ for I am convinced that by then, because of ment as a direct result of the additional the new formula applicable under the States freights. I think the Treasurer owes it to Grants Act of 1959-which I shall discuss in Parliament to tell hon. members what the detail when I deal with the effect of margins estimated net results of the increase in rail­ on the economy and the budgeting position­ way freights will be in the revenue of the the State will have more than ample revenue State. to meet all its requirements and continue to pay the present rate of subsidy, and even a One cannot find much reasonable argument slightly increased rate to local authorities. to support the continued operation of railway If the Treasurer reduces the subsidy to local lines that are losing money as heavily as authorities, he will have to give a good deal the Treasurer has told us they are losing it. of explanation to the Committee to justify his action. Mr. Aikens: Except that it might be in the public interest to keep them open. Mr. Hanlon: He admits he cannot do what Labour Governments did in the past, if he Mr. COBURN: I shall deal with that is easing it off. aspect. The people in the areas served by the lines that it is now proposed to close Mr. COBURN: I would not agree with him are in some measure responsible for the on it because he has no justification for a position that has arisen. It is obvious that reduction consequent on the treatment he has they have not supported the railway services been given by the Federal Government under as well as they might have. We are informed 830 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply by the Treasurer that the revenue in the Revenue. A Railway Concession Special best instance of the announced closure of Fund should be established from Con­ some branch lines is only 18.6 per cent. of solidated Revenue, from which the Railway the related costs, and in the worst instance Department could be reimbursed for freights only 12 per cent. What private operator lost because of the application of the con­ would continue, or even be expected to con­ cessional rates. That would enable us to tinue, a service from which he was receiving have a true picture of the financial result in the best instance £18 12s. for every £100 of the railway's operations, which could be he expended and in the worst instance £12 clearly disclosed in the Railway Department's for every £100 he expended? profit and loss statement. Mr. Aikens: The private operator is not A study of the Public Debt of Queens­ required to develop the State. land will dispel any inclination to com­ placency, particularly in respect to the Mr. COBURN: That aspect can be taken greatly-accelerated rate at which it is into consideration when we can show clearly now increasing annually. Whereas 20 that alternative methods of transport would years ago the increase was at the substitute the service given by the Railway rate of from £1,000,000 to £2,000,000 Department without any harm being done annually, the figures from 1950 onwards have to those people in the areas affected by the ranged from £16,000,000 to £21,000,000 a closure. Alternative transport can be pro­ year, the greatest increase being in the vided in those areas, and my castigation of 1952-1953 financial year when the increase the Government is not because of their reached the astronomical figure of announced intention to close these heavily £21,152,857. For the three years from 1953 losing lines, but because they did not arrange to 1956 the increase in the public debt was for alternative transport in the areas before £48,544,236, an average rate of £16,181,412 announcing their intention to close the lines. per annum. For the three years from 1957 If they had had everything arranged, and had to 1960 the total increase in the public debt been able to say to the people affected by was £53,104,430, an average rate of the closure, "We will close your railway £17,701,476. In the three years prior to line because it has been consistently losing 1957 the average of the annual increase heavily, but we have arranged for alternative in the public debt per head of population transport for both pao;sengers and goods was £8 9s. lld. but in the three years since that will meet your requirements on terms not 1957 it has been £9 6s. 2d. much less favourable than those given by the This contrasts with the position in the railways." If this had been done I am sure Commonwealth sphere where, by using there would not have been anywhere near revenue in many cases instead of loan funds such strong opposition to the closure of the for capital works, a substantial decrease lines as has been experienced. in the public debt has been effected. As Further, the railway employees on the the cost of servicing the State's public debt branch lines to be closed should have been has averaged 11.21 per cent. of the revenue assured that their services would be retained for the last 10 years, it indicates to us very and that transfers to other busier and more forcefully what a tremendous drag it exercises profitable sections would be effected. The on the Consolidated Revenue Fund. Treasurer declares that the Government It is realised that loan moneys must be regard the railway system as a necessary spent in the development of the State and feature of the State's economy. He does to ensure that we shall have full employment. not take the view that all its services or lines If the money has been spent so that assets must pay their way. To me, that is a have been created that are an offset to the common-sense attitude to adopt towards a increase in the debt, then we have little to service that has played, and will continue worry about. We could probably get a to play, a most important role in the develop­ great deal more assistance from the Common­ ment of the State. During droughts the rail­ wealth Government than we are at present ways carry at half ordinary freights food for with the redemption of our public debt. starving stock in areas declared drought The Treasurer claims that the Budget is areas. This generous concession, with which dominated by the impact of margins and I am heartily in accord, must have meant no-one can dispute that statement. a substantial loss in revenue to the railways. While the granting of margins would have In addition, the railways carry at concession greatly increased expenditure by the State on freights materials used in the establishment wages, salaries and, in many cases, the goods of new industries, as in the case of Mt. and materials purchased, the Commonwealth !sa Mines. I understand that the loss of will greatly increase its revenue by collecting revenue is borne entirely by the Railway extra income tax on those increased wages Department. and salaries, increased total sales tax on more Where concessions are granted in cases in highly priced materials, substantially increased which the whole State, and not only one par­ pay-roll taxes and total extra excise duties. ticular department, is concerned, I am of To answer the query by the hon. member the opinion that the loss directly due to for Carnarvon about the granting of these concessions granted should be l:lorne by the extra amounts in accordance with the States whole State, and debited to Consolidated Grants Act, it is estimated that increased Supply (20 OCTOBER] Supply 831 wages, salaries and charges will cost the State From this new formula it can be seen an additional £4,000,000 this year and it is that provision is made by the Commonwealth conservatively estimated that at least to compensate the States for increased costs £1,000,000 of this will be returned to the resulting from increases in wages and salaries. Commonwealth Government in the form of This increased financial assistance grant is not one kind of taxation or another. As the paid to the State until the year following wages and salaries bill of private employers that in which the wage and salaries increases is many times that of the State it is not occurred. That was the objection of the hon. difficult to estimate what a tremendous sum, member for Carnarvon to it, and it would due entirely to increased wages, salaries and be difficult to avoid the lag unless some costs, will be channelled back into the Com­ scheme could be devised by the Common­ monwealth Treasury through the medium of wealth Government to pay a provisional grant taxation. to the States, as is done in the case of provisional taxation, and an adjustment could It is the old story of one owning the be made at the end of the financial year front half of the cow and the other the when the exact amount that should have been back half; but in this instance the owner granted is known. I do not know whether of the back half does at least give the owner that suggestion has ever been placed before of the front half a portion-small though the Commonwealth Government. it may be-of the product of the cow. Mr. Lloyd: They merged the two grants, Mr. Hilton: There is a year's lag. the State grant and the additional grant, in this new formula. The two of them were Mr. COBURN: There is an explanation merged. of that year's Jag, too. Mr. COBURN: No. Mr. Lloyd: An explanation of it? Mr. Lloyd: They did. Mr. COBURN: A cure of it, if the hon. member likes, or a suggested cure. Whether Mr. COBURN: They did not do anything or not it will be effective is a different matter of the kind. They made an attempt, and but I will put it forward. I cannot see any a very serious and generous attempt, too, sense in coming into this Chamber and to meet the extra expenditure of the State destructively criticising. If hon. members through increases in wages and salaries by cannot be constructive in their criticism they multiplying the per capita payment of the are not helping themselves or anyone else. previous year by the ratio of this year's Under the newly-adopted formula of financial average wage to the average wage of last assistance under the States Grants Act of year. That was not merged with anything. 1959, which I am sure a good many hon. Mr. Hilton: Prior to that there was also members do not fully understand, the amount a special grant given which did not have a payable to a State by the Commonwealth year's lag associated with it. is obtained jn this manner: the per capita grant of the previous year is multiplied by Mr. COBURN: Yes, but there was no the ratio of the average wage for this year obligation to give that, and the amount was to the average wage of last year, multiplied something that had to be decided by the by 1.1, multiplied by the population for that Commonwealth Government. year. That is a great improvement on the old method of per capita payment, because Mr. Hilton: And the States. it does take into consideration the greater Mr. COBURN: In this matter there is no costs the State has to bear in the increased decision attached to it. It is a formula and, wages and salaries bill, and I should say whatever the answer when the formula is that, if we get that ratio-or as many times applied, the Commonwealth Government have the per capita payment as that ratio is­ to give that amount to the State, and the we are being compensated to a very large amount is not given as a privilege but as extent for the extra burden of pay-outs a right. we are responsible for, and in addition to that-for some reason not known to me­ Mr. Lloyd: That is what makes the new another margin of one-tenth is allowed, formula so disastrous. because of the multiple of 1.1 that is used in computing the amount of money. Mr. COBURN: Does the hon. member not think it is much better? Mr. Lloyd: What they call the "betterment Mr. Lloyd: No. factor." Mr. COBURN: Would he like to revert to Mr. COBURN: Anyhow, it is to our benefit and because it is to our benefit it the old one? is not something we are going to criticise Mr. Lloyd: It would be better. or ask to have withdrawn. That is the method used, but, before we can know what Mr. COBURN: I cannot agree that it that ratio is, the year for which it is to would be better. That lag presents a difficulty be granted must have passed, as you cannot and some attempt should be made by our get the ratio of two things before one has representatives at the Loan Council to try been completed. to overcome it by a provisional grant to this 832 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

State, the readjustment to be made in exactly Three items mentioned in the Budget that the same way as provisional taxation is levied directly affect many of the constituents of the and the adjustment made when the right Burdekin electorate, which I have the honour time comes. to represent, are- (a) The writing-off of debts totalling Mr. Walsh: There is always a lag in the formula. What are you talking about? £405,975 under the War Service Land Settlement Scheme in the Burdekin River Mr. COBURN: It is the lag we are trying area; to overcome. The hon. member is not being (b) The recent price adjustment in sugar very helpful about it. He does not even and the announcement of a 7 t-per cent. know what I am talking about. increase in mill peaks; and Mr. Walsh: I know what you are talking (c) The setting up of a University college about. You are talking about the lag. to be followed later by the establishment of a University at Townsville. Mr. COBURN: The hon. member is talk­ All these things were welcomed and deeply ing about the lag, and he does not even know appreciated by everybody in the electorate, what the lag is about. He does not know more particularly by those who were directly whether we are talking about the old concerned. A searching inquiry was made formula or the new. We know there is a lag into the position of the settlers in the soldier and that it adversely affects budgeting pro­ settlement at Clare. As a result of the report cedure in the year in which we have to bear that was tabled it was decided that, because the extra wage costs. Nobody has suggested certain reasons for the failure of many of the how that Jag can be overcome. The hon. settlers could be laid at the feet of the member says that there is a Jag. He asks me Government, in fairness to the settlers their what I am talking about, but he has not debts to the Agricultural Bank should be suggested how we are to overcome the lag. written off. I have had cause to make I am making a suggestion and, if the hon. representations on behalf of one settler in member does not approve of it, it is his duty the area for a loan from the Agricultural to indicate a better way. Bank. The Agricultural Bank refused to lend the money on the ground that it would be Mr. Lloyd interjected. unwise for them to do so in the circum­ COBURN: What would the hon. stances. When I made inquiries, I was told Mr. that the settler was regarded as being a very member have done about it? Would he have industrious and efficient farmer but that the refused to accept the new formula? land he was farming was so poor that he Mr. Lloyd: I think every State Government could not possibly be expected to make a is realising that the new formula is not a success of it. That was only one instance; there were many others. Men were put on very satisfactory one. land that the department itself agrees they Mr. COBURN: I should like the hon. could not possibly make a success of, no member for Kedron to work out what matter how efficient they were. Queensland would have got under the old Mr. Pizzey: When was he put there? formula when we had to depend on the Federal Government to give us a grant Mr. COBURN: He was among the first gratuitously, and compare it with what we group of settlers who went onto the land. will get under the new formula. If he can prove from his calculations that we are worse (Time expired.) off now, then we should revert to the old system. My reckoning is that now we have Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (12.46 p.m.): The a better system, one that meets the situation, hon. member for Burdekin complained that because we are not dependent upon any members of the Opposition did not make a gratuitous act by the Commonwealth Gov­ critical survey of the Financial Statement. I ernment. It is in accordance with the formula assure the Committee that all five members that has been accepted by the States and the of the A.L.P. Opposition who have spoken Commonwealth and embodied in the States in this debate have spoken to the Budget and Grants Act of 1959. have made valuable contributions. Though the "margins" seriously and I realise the Treasurer's difficulty in adversely affect this year's Budgeting, attempting to present a balanced Budget this unless there are similar steep increases in year, but the Budget he presented indicates wages and salaries next financial year his cold, calculating, ruthless attitude the State's finances for 1961-1962 should to the future development of Queensland. be tremendously improved, which will allow It is obvious that the State's expenditure on for the provision of services and the imple­ public works has become a matter of cold mentation of developmental projects on a mathematics, stemming from the belief that greatly expanded scale. The Treasurer will there must be an immediate return of benefit next year by the lag, although this all capital expenditure. year he may be seriously affected by it because he has to meet the extra expenditure Mr. Hiley: That is rot. Why don't you now, not next year. read the Budget? Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 833

Mr. LLOYD: That is what the Treasurer Southern Division. The position should be said. carefully examined to find out exactly why losses were sustained in the Southern Division. Mr. Hiley: I said nothing of the sort. Sit down and read it. In the report of the Commissioner for Railways for the year ended 30 June, 1959, Mr. LLOYD: I will quote the Treasurer's the losses in the Southern Division are set words. out. In 1954-1955 the loss was £853,806, Mr. Hiley: Quote the whole of them, not and it increased to £3,427,000 in 1958-1959. just half, as is your usual form. That is a considerable increase in working losses, and it would cover virtually all the Mr. LLOYD: I will read it for the informa­ working losses in the Railway Department. tion of the hon. gentleman if he wishes me There can be only one reason for that, and to. He said- I submit a suggestion for the Government's "It has been our constant endeavour to consideration. Adequate extension of the seek two desirable features in our Loan quadruplication scheme in the metropolitan Programmes. First, we examine the area would overcome to a great extent the element of recoverability and, second, that slow movement of goods traffic to and from of return. Recoverability offsets our Brisbane, particularly during peak hours. Sinking FunJ obli~tions" Mr. Pizzey: Do you know that, or are etcetera, and he went on- you only guessing? "But these factors, whilst desirable, cannot Mr. LLOYD: It is not a guess. I think it be allowed to enslave." has been accepted for some years that one I will concede that to him. of the main reasons for losses in the Southern Division is the slow movement of Mr. Hiley: Go on, read the rest of it. goods traffic in the metropolitan area. I think that would be substantiated by reports Mr. LLOYD: At the same time, it is not of the Commissioner for Railways in recent just a question of having that element of years. If we can overcome that slow move­ recoverability in the expenditure; there is ment of traffic, we will improve efficiency also the question of future development. and go a long way towards removing the Take, for example, railway expenditure, losses in the Southern Division. The Northern which, according to the Financial Statement, and Central Divisions have shown profits, is to be reduced. The hon. member for and the Southern Division should be able Burdekin seems to be of the opinion that to show a profit, too. we should dismiss most of the railwaymen and practically close down all railway works. I think primary producers have reason to complain about the movement of produce Mr. Cobum: I said nothing of the kind. from their farms, and I think the Treasurer I said provision should be made for their is aware that many of them are worried transfer, if necessary. You would say about being costed out of the market. There anything. are some grains, for instance, on which the return to the primary producer is so low Mr. LLOYD: The reduced allocation for that it does little more than cover the cost railway expenditure indicates what the of production. If the revenue of the Rail­ Government have decided to do about rail­ way Department is to be built up year after way works. Firstly, the quadruplication year by increasing the cost of production, I scheme in Brisbane has been completely do not believe that is in the best interests of discontinued. Queensland. I do not think that this savage increase in railway freights and fares is Mr. Hiley: You seriously suggest that it logical. If you force primary producers has been completely discontinued? out of production by over-pricing railway cartage, there will be no goods for the Mr. LLOYD: Temporarily discontinued. railways to carry. Already producers in Mr. Hiley: I wish you would read the some areas have found alternative means of Financial Statement. transport. Mr. LLOYD: All right, the work has been If the Central Division is making a profit, slowed down. one examines the reasons for that just as one examines the reasons for losses in other Mr. Hiley: Ah, now, now! More this year divisions. If it is found that a commodity than last! produced in that area is being carted wholly by the Railway Department and is a very Mr. LLOYD: A rather important point in lucrative source of revenue, one should not this connection is that, in the recent increas­ attempt to cost it out of production. That ing of railway freights, I do not believe is all part of the system that has been in serious consideration was given to the differ­ operation for many years. The railways are ent sections, or the sectionalising, of railway there not only to show a profit but also to revenue and expenditure. For instance, the enable development to take place in the Central Division showed a profit while almost various areas of the State. It is only because the whole of the loss was made in the of our railway system that industries have 1960-20 834 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

been established in many areas. Losses sus­ that appeared in "The Sunday-Mail" on tained by the railways must be borne by the 26 June, 1960. "Harold Cox's Canberra people in the interests of the development Comment" reads- of the State. "Canberra.-State Premiers who attended Mr. Walsh: Compared with other depart­ the Loan Council conference last week, mental expenditure, the railways are the now sadly fear that once again they are bogy of this Budget. the suckers. "Twelve months ago they thought they Mr. LLOYD: That is the excuse given by had made a good deal for themselves. the Treasurer for the deficits that have been "At that time they accepted the Com­ shown. monwealth Government's offer of a six­ Mr. Walsh: They are not paying much year agreement to fix income tax reim­ more in wages than was paid by the former bursement by formula. Government. "Now they think that Mr. McEwen, who then deputised for Mr. Menzies and the Mr. LLOYD: The Government must accept Treasurer (Mr. Holt) really pulled off a that movement in expenditure is their sole good deal for the Commonwealth." responsibility. They were the Government I think the Treasurer is now realising the who decontrolled prices and rents, and truth of that statement. He is finding that allowed the spiral of inflation to settle on instead of being able to go ahead in the six­ Queensland's economy. They unsettled the year period of the agreement the Government economy to the stage where the total pay­ have been put into a position very similar to ment of wages and salaries is a big factor. that of the basic-wage earner or the average The Treasurer has endeavoured to make the wage earner who has to wait three months operations of the Railway Department the for the cost-of-living adjustment. reason for the deficit, but the very attempt to rectify that position by the introduction Mr. Coburn: That could be overcome by of savage freight increases will certainly a provisional grant. reduce the volume of traffic through the Mr. LLOYD: They merged the provisional department and probably eventually reduce revenue. "rant with the State grant under the six-year formula. I agree that there should still be a The hon. member for Burdekin mentioned provisional grant. I do not want to be inter a number of points of some interest, particu­ preted as meaning that I am advocating that money should be taken from education and larly Commonwealth-State finances, but he hospitals and transferred to some _other Vote. ignored the fact that over the past few years I intend to make as clear as possible a num­ from time to time the Treasurer and the ber of facts one of which in particular will Premier have claimed that they have had make clear' my attitude towards budgeting. additional finance from the Commonwealth I should like to quote, for the benefit of Government. In other words, he congratu­ the Treasurer and the hon. member for lated the Treasurer-- Townsville South what I said on deficit budgeting as reported in "Hansard" on Oc_to­ Mr. Coburn: I said that if you thought ber 14, 1958, at page 623. I was refernng there was anything amiss you had the right at the time to the deficit of £1,500,000 for to point it out. that year, and I said- Mr. LLOYD: I am doing that. When "While men are unemployed we must do agreement was reached on a new taxation our best to spend as much money as we formula the Premier said that the star of can-even more than we can afford on federation was in the ascendancy, that it was some occasions." the saving of federation as far as the States I said that because I realise that we are were concerned, but there have been many limited in our budgeting by the amount of alterations in the opinions of those two hon. money we receive from the Commonwealth gentlemen since. I suppose there were other Government. But much depends on the Gov­ State Premiers who thought that the new ernment themselves in the amount actually formula might operate very satisfactorily. received through tax reimbursements and The merging of the State grant and the grants and by way of loan moneys from the additional grant formula might have been an Loan Council. undesirable feature to some, but nobody at that time imagined that the margins would My point on this <;ccasi<;m is that this, at any rate, is one year m which we are um;ble become the factor they have in the last 12 to carry out the normal works and services months. The effect of the sudden increase in of government in the interests of the people wages and salaries throughout Australia has of Queensland. That is apparent from the been to make it virtually impossible for many substantial reductions in many of the Votes State Governments to balance their budgets. in the Estimates. Originally the Treasurer said that the formula was a very good one, but to indicate the Mr. Davies: The previous speaker said we alteration of opinion I quote from an article had plenty of money. Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 835

Mr. LLOYD: The hon. member for out to them, they would realise the import­ Burdekin was apparently offering excuses for ance of this work and the need to undertake the Treasurer and the Government, although it. I know sufficient money may not he is an Independent. He was talking politi­ be readily available at the moment, but cally as a!'l Independent member of the Gov­ I draw attention to the statements of ernment parties. the Premier and the Treasurer imme­ diately after the Government assumed I wish to refer for a few moments to the office. They said that, instead of adopting the statement that I was making on capital­ crude and rude attitude of Labour Premiers expenditure reduction in the Railway Depart­ in the past, they would adopt a gentlemanly ment. That is one case in point and I think and aristocratic approach to the Common­ it is very important that we should examine wealth Government and so secure additional it. The Treasurer is emerging as the Leader funds for Queensland. They have failed to do of the Government. That was borne out the so. The Financial Statement is tantamount to other day when he gave the full Government an admission that the funds available to the case as it related to the hon. member for Government are insufficient for even the Fassifern. normal works and services required by the One apparent fact in railway finance is that people. the rest of Queensland is being asked to pay I realise that additional educational facil­ high charges, particularly on agricultural ities must be provided, but the same situation produce, to subsidise tremendous losses in exists in all of the other States. In answer to the Southern Division. When I referred to my question yesterday morning the Minister the subject previously I did not mention in said that in 1947 there were 129,970 primary confirmation of that fact that whilst the school students and 4,748 State secondary working loss in the Railway Department last school students in Queensland. By 1957 those year was in the neighbourhood of £2.6 numbers had grown to 198,857 and 15,444, million, the working loss in the Southern respectively. That was the first year of this Division-or, more correctly, in the Brisbane Government's administration. For 1960, section comprising the area from Brisbane to three years later, the figures are startling. Gympie and Helidon and the South Coast They are 210,512 and 28,507, respectively. line-was £2.2 million. At that time the loss But as I have said, the situation is not sustained by the whole of the Railway peculiar to Queensland; it exists throughout Department was less than that figure. In Australia. State Governments generally are actual fact, railway losses within the Brisbane obliged to allocate additional money for area and its close proximity were equal to the school facilities. I agree entirely that full losses sustained by the Railway Depart­ increased expenditure is called for, but where ment. There must be some very important is the additional money the Government were reason for that. If it is the difficulty exper­ going to get by a gentlemanly approach to ienced in moving traffic in and out of the Commonwealth Government? We did not Brisbane, through insufficient railway lines, get it. The Government failed in that respect. we should, if we are not to perpetuate rail­ way losses, cure it by building other lines so Not more than two years ago under the that traffic can flow freely in and out of the new formula Queensland's allocation of city. Quadruplication may not be very Commonwealth aid for roads was reduced important to Brisbane, but it is vitally by £1,500,000, over a period of five years­ important to the whole of Queensland. If by a disastrous state of affairs-while States the expenditure of £1,000,000 or £2,000,000 such as Victoria were able to secure addit­ we could overcome hold-ups in the flow of ional grants under the same formula. A goods traffic in and out of Brisbane, we somewhat similar set of circumstances arose would be doing something of great advantage in respect of tax reimbursments. I suppose not only for the moment but also for the the Treasurer and Premier, with most of the future. If railway losses could be cut sub­ other Premiers of Australia, thought that the stantialy, additional funds would be available new formula was a really good one and that for other works and services. they would be able to balance their budgets, or almost balance them, with the increased Mr. Pizzey: Do you really think that is the allocations. It was never thought that mar­ reason for the losses? ginal increases would come about, and it is now found that while the Commonwealth Mr. LLOYD: I have read a number of Government are getting somewhere in the departmental reports that confirm my state­ neighbourhood of an additional £30,000,000 ment, and I am prepared to accept the word yearly through increased income tax, pay-roll of past Commissioners for Railways. tax, and all the other incidental forms of revenue that they receive as a result of high Great prominence was given to that feature wages, and so on, the States are unable to in post-war years, and it was advanced as one get enough to pay their wages bills and carry of the reasons why Labour Governments of out normal works and services. the past should embark on a scheme of quadruplication. The Government should The hon. member for Burdekin said consider the aspect I have mentioned. The something I could not follow. I thought he rest of Queensland should not be asked to was praising the new formula, and before the subsidise the tremendous losses that occur in luncheon adjournment I tried to show that the southern sector. If the facts were pointed there is considerable doubt-and I believe 836 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the Treasurer himself has some considerable but we have reached the stage where we doubt-whether the new formula will cover cannot afford to carry out all the State's all circumstances. Whilst we have reserved normal services. the right in exceptional circumstances to make application to the Commonwealth Gov­ The Treasurer has taken from the Trust ernment for additional finance-"exceptional'' and Special Funds £6.4 million to finance circumstances being circumstances that are overdrafts in the Consolidated Revenue confined to this State, and maybe we will be account. These days there seems to be an able to get additional finance because of the unholy rush to destroy the special funds present exceptional drought conditions­ we built up over the years, even to the extent payments for salaries and wages, and other of taking away some forms of revenue, and factors that are common throughout the transferring the funds to the Loan Fund Commonwealth, are not exceptional circum­ Account. It may be building up our net stances. Some approach could be made to loan expenditure but it is being done at the Commonwealth Government for the re­ the expense of moneys previously put into mtroduction of the additional-grants system the Consolidated Revenue Fund. One that that operated before the "escalation" clause I recall concerns forestry and lumbering, of the new formula was introduced. Whereas which some years ago amounted to more in the past Labour Governments in this State than £1,000,000. It has been transferred to were able to maintain a fairly high level of the Loan Fund Account to build up net works and services for the people, they were loan expenditure. at the same time enabled to secure additional grants from the Commonwealth Government We have heard of attempts not only by because of exceptional circumstances. the Treasurer, but also by Sir Arthur Fadden on one occasion, to blame previous Labour I cannot make a statement on the real Governments for the shortage of loan moneys reason behind the method of obtaining these in Queensland, but the claims cannot be additional grants from the Commonwealth, substantiated. From time to time, in reply but from an analysis over the years it seems to questions asked about the continual reduc­ that during those years when inflation took tion of the Commonwealth's loan allocation control the additional grants were much to Queensland for housing-this year some higher than in the years when there was £300,000-the Treasurer says it is because reasonable stability in the economy. In 1950- of the failure of previous Governments to 1951, the additional grant was £2,000 000 get sufficient loan moneys from the Common­ and in 1951-1952 the special grant wealth. rose to £5,005,542. During that time Sir Arthur Fadden was reported in 'The the basic wage in this State increased Courier-Mail" of 11 June, 1958 as having by £3 or £4 a week and there was tremendous said at a meeting of the Loan Council- inflation. The real inflationary spiral was from 1950 to 1952, and the additional special "Queensland's lower share per head of grants made available to the States by the loan raisings was a matter for the State Commonwealth Government were higher Government to have out with the other than they had been when there was reason­ States. able stability. In 1955-1956 it was only "The Commonwealth Government could £2,123,117. They were smaller amounts and not be blamed for Quensland's plight then they increased. As the inflationary spiral inherited from a previous State Govern­ again took over and the momentum became ment. greater, the special grant to Queensland was so much greater. "The distribution of State works and housing programmes was a matter for State This . year, when we have a large Governments themselves." extra b1ll because of the marginal increases­ the Trea~urer said it amounted to £4,00~,000 That was an attempt to blame previous -a specml grant should be made available Labour Governments for the situation that by the Commonwealth Government. It would has developed whereby Queensland's loan appear that these special grants were made allocations are so much less than those of available by the Commonwealth Government the other States. It is not correct to say from surplus revenue resulting from under­ that they were responsible. estimated revenue collections. The Treasurer tried to ridicule me when I The new formula may be satisfactory in so suggested to him that, during the war years. far as it gives the States a greater allocation it was impossible for Queensland to spend of finance, but it does not cover the circum­ very much money on capital works. He stances where the Government, like the said the war was on in the other States, too. basic-wage earners, are running behind But Queensland was a garrison State of the continually-increasing costs. The Treasurer Commonwealth, and much of its capital and the Government are 12 months behind, works expenditure was carried out by the and the State has to bear the cost. Greater Commonwealth. consideration should have been given to these Mr. Coburn: During one of those years matters. I do not know whether the Premier the State's debt was reduced by £1,000,000. or the Treasurer were not sufficiently experi­ enced in the workings of the Premiers' Mr. LLOYD: That would be correct. That Conference or the Loan Council meetings, is not net loan expenditure, of course. The Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 837 reason was that Queensland was a garrison Mr. LLOYD: There is, and there is quite State of the Commonwealth. Naturally we a sound argument for the continuance of built up considerable reserves. the subsidies in Queensland. The latest figures that I was able to obtain from the Mr. Hanlon: It was good business to let Commonwealth Year Book were those for the Commonwealth do the work. 1956-1957. I think they are very important Mr. LLOYD: My word it was! The Labour in this argument, and they show that the Governments of that period are to be con­ indebtedness per head of population in all gratulated on the work they did. Everybody States is as follows:- in Queensland will admit that the railways, I Local Semi~ and railway men, did a wonderful job of - State Govern~ Total work in the national interest. Authority mental ------I £ £ £ £ Mr. Davies: The hon. member for Con­ New South damine does not appreciate that. Wales .. 205 19 55'8 279·8 Victoria 180·2 11·2 121·9 313·3 Mr. LLOYD: The hon. member for Con­ Queensland. 192·8 47·4 38·4 278·6 South damine believes only in roads and that is Australia 314·9 3·6 26 344·5 the policy that is being adopted following the I I campaigning by hon. members opposite. Local authority indebtedness per head of Naturally, in the post-war years we had population in Western Australia was £10.1 to use most of the reserves that had been and in Tasmania £25.5. The comparative built up. The Labour Government used figures show that local authority indebted­ them as far as possible, but why should they ness was £47.4 per head of population in be blamed for the present low level of loan Queensland and that the State nearest to that expenditure in Queensland? It is the respon­ was Tasmania with £25.5; in South Australia sibility of the present Government to go it was no more than £3.6. Of course, other out, as Sir Arthur Fadden said, and fight it States have a different method of distributing out with the other States to get a reasonable finance. In South Australia, for instance, the allocation-to get sufficient money to enable State accepts full responsibility for the supply all these works and services to be carried out. of electricity and water, whereas in Queens­ The Government should not sit back and say, land many of our responsibilities are handed "We cannot help it. The previous Labour over to local authorities. Governments put us in this situation." That is not enough. The people of Queensland Mr. Hanlon: To encourage decentralisation. will not be satisfied with that. They expect the Government, if necessary, to adopt the Mr. LLOYD: Yes. It is an excellent way crude and rude attitude and tactics of former of doing it, I think. A more equitable dis­ Premiers and Treasurers of the State before tribution of expenditure can be achieved. In the Premiers' Conferences and Loan Council Victoria the semi-governmental expenditure is meetings and to fight bitterly and hard for £121.9 per head of population; apparently anything we can be given to enable us to local authorities are doing a great proportion carry out much-needed works. There has of the work in that State. The system of been a net loss in population in Queensland subsidy was instituted in Queensland because during the past few years. Migration into of the transference of the responsibility from Queensland is falling below the level of the Government to local authorities, and I migration into other States, and this is the believe that this is a very good argument for only State in the Commonwealth in which the continuance of the system. I think the there has been a net loss in population. Why Treasurer should make investigations, and is that? Is it not because insufficient indus­ where the ratepayers of local authorities are tries are being established in Queensland to meeting the interest bill on our inde;btedness absorb the available labour? Is it not because the subsidy system should be contmued. I the other States are expanding much more do not think it is a move in the right direc­ rapidly than we are? It is obvious that the tion for the Treasurer to suggest that the financial agreement established in 1927 has State no longer can afford these high subsidy failed to provide an adequate and equitable payments which amounted to £5,000,000 or distribution of the moneys available to the £6,000,000 last year. Commonwealth Government. Mr. Coburn: Unless he can give us some Mr. Houghton: What do you say is the evidence to justify it. reason why local authorities have always filled their loans in the last couple of years? Mr. LLOYD: Where the local authorities, Mr. LLOYD: I am coming to the question instead of the State Government, are handling of local authority loan raising, which was most of the work and meeting the interest bill. some relief should be afforded. The also mentioned by the hon. member for only relief we have had in the past has Burdekin. Let us examine the net loan been that we have been able to make advances indebtedness of all authorities in Queensland to local authorities under the loan-subsidy and the other States. system to finance a great deal of their Mr. Coburn: There is an argument for work. If that is discontinued a great deal increasing the subsidies. of the work at present being undertaken 838 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply by local authorities will slip back. In a Mr. LLOYD: The expenditure in the State like Queensland with an expanding Federal Budget on capital works and services economy it is undesirable that all the work this year has been £140,000,000. being done by local authorities should be reduced. Mr. Hiley: Every new military camp, every new post office, every expansion of Common­ I mentioned that in my opinion the financial wealth railways, and so on, is paid for agreement had failed to maintain movement currently by the taxpayers; not one penny with the expanding of Australia's economy. of it is borrowed. When the financial agreement was first framed in 1927 apparently it was quite Mr. LLOYD: We realise that. It is a sound scheme. It has operated satisfac­ interesting to compare the actual amount of torily in many respects. It has prevented revenue, which is being contributed by the tax­ competition between State Governments and payers, spent on Commonwealth capital works the Commonwealth Government on the over­ and services with that spent on State works seas loan market, thus preventing the forcing and services. It makes very _interesting read­ up of interest rates on loan moneys raised. ing. For instance, in the 11 years from At the same time, the original formula 1949 to 1960, for Commonwealth works and provided that in the event of the State services £1,360,000,000 has come from Government's disagreeing with the alloca­ revenue. For State works the amount of tions, the Commonwealth Government £600,000,000 has come from the same source. should take one-fifth of the total sum avail­ The sum of £2,000,000,000 has been con­ able and the remainder should be distributed tributed by the taxpayers in the present among the States in accordance with their generation towards the improvement and net loan expenditures in the previous five development of the country, a development years. that will be enjoyed by future generations. In other words, the taxpayers today are The Treasurer is trying to build up paying for the development of the country Queensland's net loan expenditure, which 10, 20 and 30 years ahead. may have the effect in the future of increas­ ing Queensland's allocation by the Loan It is also interesting to n9te that the Council. But since the financial agreement Commonwealth public debt has fallen during has been in operation I do not think the the same period by £264,000,000, while that States have ever agreed to accept the terms of the States has increased by of one-fifth to the Commonwealth and £1.500,000,000. The most important factor the distribution of the remainder among is that over the same period the interest bill themselves. At the present time it would of the States has increased by £72,000,000 be impossible for the Loan Council to make and more than half that money has been those arrangements. In the last 11 years contributed by the taxpayers of Australia. £2,000,000,000 have been paid out of That is an important factor. It has been revenue to the Loan Consolidated Invest­ mentioned from time to time in this Chamber ment Reserve, and utilised in lending money but it is worth while continuing to mention it. to the State Governments. This It is time that the States and the Common­ year the Commonwealth Government have wealth got together on the financial agree­ an estimated expenditure on capital works ment and decided what is to be done. At and services of £140,000,000, whereas the the present time tax reimbursements are made States' allocation is no more than more or less on the formula of the Common­ £230,000,000. If there were £370,000,000 wealth Grants Commission. That Commis­ to be allocated, under the formula the sion. in analysing the requirements of the Commonwealth would receive no more than claimant States during the 12-monthly period, about £80,000,000, yet they are going to goes through the Budgets of the individual spend £140,000,000. States-the non-claimant States in particular­ dissects them, and estimates what is the Mr. Hiley: Out of revenue, not loan. normal amount required to provide, per head of the population, for normal works and Mr. LLOYD: That is exactly the point services in each State. It decides the normal I shall make. Going back the same way amount that could be collected by each if we do not accept the distribution offered Government from State tax and then studies to the States on the formula, what will the budgetary position of each State. I believe happen? The Commonwealth Government it is upon that basis that we have been r_eceiv­ will say, "We can raise only £100,000,000- ing money from the Commonwealth in past split that up among you." They would not years. I do not think there has ever been any allocate the amount that they have set aside attempt to analyse the position of each State in the Loan Consolidated Investment on the basis of its developmental require­ Reserve. ments and on the money that may be expended over a period of years on irri­ Mr. Hiley: I think they have committed gation and water supply schemes, the themselves to make that available to support damning of headwaters for flood-prevention the loan market. You have to know how purposes, soil and water conservation, or much cake you have before you start to transport facilities to enable ready access cut the slices. of goods to markets. Those matters have Supply (20 OCTOBER] Supply 839

never been examined to ascertain exactly how Committee knowing only too well that the much should be allocated over and above the only real attack we can direct on the Govern­ amount allocated for the normal expenditure ment's budget is that they have failed to on :"orks and services such as hospitals, secure from the Commonwealth Government housmg, education and the usual irrigation sufficient money to provide our normal works work. and services. The interjection of the hon. I maintain that this other developmental member for Burdekin would lead me to factor, over and above those normal services, believe that his attitude is - "I am a has never been taken into consideration at Queenslander." We must be Australian in Commonwealth-State level with any degree outlook if we are to hold this country and of satisfactioJ?- to the States. For instance, withstand outside challenges. no doubt m Queensland and Western Australia there would be a greater need for Mr. Smith: And withstand the Communists. developmental works than in some of the other States but that factor has never been Mr. LLOYD: Withstand challenges considered. If it is impossible for the States irrespective of the particular "ism" or the to get together and work together on a source of the challenge. We must be Aus­ national basis, it is essential that some other tralian in outlook and not think as tribunal or body be constituted to accept Queenslanders, New South Welshmen or the responsibility for weighing these matters South Australians. We have already abrogated on a completely non-par9chial and national most of our sovereignty under the Financial basis. It has never been done and until Agreement and uniform taxation. it is attempted the position will not improve. We will continue the fight with the Common­ I listened attentively yesterday to the wealth Government and the other States to speech of the hon. member for Mt. Gravatt. get a greater share of the allocations. This It was a very thoughtful contribution. It 'matter should be looked into from the indicated to me that the hon. member was viewpoint of Australia as a whole. At very concerned about the Commonwealth the moment we are considering it as Constitution as it stands at present. He is Queenslanders, and the people over the the great champion of Section 92 of the border are considering it as New South Commonwealth Constitution, but I think he Welshmen. If the problem is to be resolved is now in doubt about the wisdom of the some body composed of other than the section. He said we had to be Australian political heads of the States should tackle in outlook if we were going to develop the it. It would be sufficient if, under the present country in the interests of Australia as a financial arrangement, the Commonwealth whole. Countries such as Germany and Japan Government were to say to the States, "There have rehabilitated their economy. Germany, is your allocation for the purpose of con­ for instance, now refuses to borrow extern­ structing schools and hospitals, and providing ally-in fact, it is the largest lender to the health services and all the other normal works International Bank. Why can Australia not and services," and then give authority to attain such a position? Is it because of con­ another body, such as the reconstituted Inter­ stitutional difficulties? I think so. The state Commission, to deal with development Constitution in its present form has failed in the interests of Australia as a whole. It in its original purpose, that is, development c_ould investigate, say, the Mt. Isa railway of the nation. !me and the Burdekin River Authority and decide that those projects were desirous from If it is necessary in the interests of national a national viewpoint. development that State Governments should Mr. Cobum: We would have to depend become no more than administrators for the on them to do that. Commonwealth Government, I am afraid that will have to be the position, otherwise Mr. LLOYD: That is so. I am pointing we can never develop this country. At the out that the problem has never been tackled moment, representatives of the six States go in this way. Allocations to the States are to the Premiers' conference and Loan Council determined according to normal works and meetings but if Queensland wants a greater services, but no consideration has been given share, we find that New South Wales, for !O any State's potential for development, that instance, will make a bargain with another IS, development in the national interests. We State to make sure that Queensland does should realise that Australia is -an integrated not get the additional money. That is what economy. If the Commonwealth Govern­ is happening. Six Premiers from six States, ment had to undertake developmental work, supposedly with full sovereignty, go to the the State Governments would then be simply Loan Council meeting and bicker about administratorrs for the purpose of providing how much they are going to get. They say, normal works and services. "We demand this; our developm_ent is more Mr. Cobum: And lose our sovereignty. necessary than that of Queensland or Western Australia." We will get nowhere Mr. LLOYD: Those who speak of the until that system has been completely altered. sovereignty of the State amuse me, particu­ The only way in which it can be altered larly as we have lost so much already. Con­ is by all the State Premiers getting together sider our frustration in standing before this and discussing the problem in a sensible way. 840 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

In 1942 the late John Curtin, when Prime graduates trained in modern science and Minister of Australia, did something sub­ technology. We cannot get them on the stantial in this direction. He called a meet­ present basis. The first thing that should be ing in Canberra of the Premiers and the done is for the Commonwealth to accept full Leaders of the Opposition from all States. responsibility for University expenditure. The present Queensland Premier \Vas there. That \vould be a start and v:ould enable more He voted in favour of the Curtin plan for money to be set aside by the State Govern­ an amendment of the Australian Constitution, ments for primary and secondary education. but when it went to the people, the Liberal As at last year the Commonwealth Govern­ Party, under the leadership of Mr. Menzies, ment's contribution to the Queensland Univer­ placed doubts in the public mind and the sity was about £400,000, whereas the State referendum was defeated. It was a specific Government's total expenditure on the new provision towards post-war development and Queensland University was £3,000,000 to indicated that at that time the Premiers and £4,000,000. the Leaders of the Opposition Parties in Mr. Hiley: On University education? Australia realised that something had to be done. The decisions reached on the financial Mr. LLOYD: Yes. I am giving those arrangements between the Commonwealth figures from memory and they may not be and the States were virtually unanimous, but accurate. However, I have the report of they were later rejected. State Premiers and the Auditor-General here and I note that Leaders of the Opposition representative of on page 146 he sets out a list and says- all political parties were present. They dis­ "The following statement sets out par­ cussed this very vexed problem on a non­ ticulars of capital works involved since partisan basis, and I believe something will 1 July, 1935, and the sources of the relative have to be done in the near future to con­ funds:" vene a similar meeting. We cannot con­ tinue as we have in the past. We cannot And the total is shown as £4,727,851. Then afford to be placed in the position of not he sets out that £4,248,351 was provided by being able to get the necessary money to the State Government and only £479,500 build all the schools that are required and provided by the Commonwealth Government. provide all the hospitals and health services Mr. Hiley: Those are surely cumulative that are needed. That will happen unless figures? something is done quickly. Mr. LLOYD: Yes, but they indicate the We in Australia are finding that our high cost of university education to the State, educational system is failing completely to and doubtless it is similarly high in the other match modern-day requirements of industry States. and the overseas trend in science and tech­ nology. Other countries have a higher An Honourable Member: It will get a lot standard of education than we have. We will bigger, too. not attain that standard until the responsi­ bility for it is accepted by someone-and the Mr. LLOYD: Yes, it will, over the years, responsibility must rest squarely on the and eventually more universities will be Commonwealth Government. required. It is a matter we can discuss non­ politically because the task will have to be I shall refer to some figures on education faced by whatever government are in power and give the number of graduates in 1955 in the State. in science and engineering per million- (Time expired.) Country No. per million U.S.A. 281 Mr. SMITH (Windsor) (3.2 p.m.): I was Russia 450 very glad to hear the previous speaker say Great Britain 162 that he and his colleagues would keep us Canada 143 immune and safe from the evils of those Australia 79 with whom they so readily associate. We The amount spent on education in Australia hope that the time they are spending in the is the lowest in the world. company of those people so undesirable to our ideals and ideas will be time well spent A Government Member: What? in keeping them from setting their sights on our shores. But I should prefer to think Mr. LLOYD: Practically the lowest in the that we will look after Queensland in our world. I mean that statement in a general own way-the really fair and decent way­ sense; the lowest of the major nations of the and continue in our Australian way of life world, if we may place Australia in that without any assistance from what has been category. The figures are far higher in other done in the Oriental countries, a system that countries. apparently is so near and dear to some of We have had very few inquiries into educa­ our opponents. tion; only two, I think, including the Murray Mr. Bennett: The old catch-cry! Committee of a few years ago. University education is becoming a very grave problem Mr. SMITH: It is significant that no for all State Governments. We must expand sooner does the hon. member for South our educational system if industry is to get Brisbane come into the Chamber than he Supply [20 OcTOBER] Supply 841

again demonstrates his desire to speak rather The design of that building might have been than to listen. Last night I told him that suitable for the purpose for which it was if he would be content to listen more and used; but the design is quite useless today speak less he would be a darned sight more and any money spent on it now would be use to the Assembly. money wasted. I advanced that idea in 1959, Volume 225 of "Hansard" at page Mr. Bennett: It would do you good to do 1332, when the District Court building was some listening for a change. being constructed. I then advanced the suggestion to the Committee that the money Mr. SMITH: You cannot account for some could have been much better spent in people. The other night when I did not building a complete new court house. speak the hon. member for South Brisbane said I was skulking on the back benches and Mr. Bennett: Of course it could have been, now that I am on my feet he says I speak and to allow Adelaide Street to go through too much. to the river. Mr. Bennett: You sleep too much, not Mr. SMITH: The money that went into speak too much. the District Court building produced quite comfortable courts. However, I am not Mr. SMITH: Today I propose to deal with concerned with the subject from the point of the growth of Queensland because I think view of a practitioner going into the courts the Budget debate is the one most fitted but from the point of view of getting the to the discussion of that topic. I intend to money spent and getting a pound's worth of make certain comments on the Town Plan value for each pound spent. I suggest that that the Brisbane City Council is preparing any money spent in rebuilding these old and on certain governmental and public buildings is not money well spent. buildings in Brisbane that are no doubt due for removal or repair or reconstruction. The Throughout Brisbane there are buildings whole idea behind my remarks will be to and land owned by the Government that are suggest that the State should have a plan scheduled at some later stage for the develop­ co-extensive with the Town Plan so that we ment of Government buildings. Next year, might say of any particular part of the when the Commonwealth Government com­ inner city, "That spot is marked out for the pletes its new taxation building, we shall future State Government Insurance Office have thrown back into our laps the old build­ building," and that some other spot is marked ing known as the Taxation Building on the out as the site of some other building. I corner of Elizabeth and George Streets. Mr. have purposely mentioned the State Govern­ Taylor, it is over 35 years since I made my ment Insurance Office building because it is first broadcast in that building, which is already on the drawing board to be put on probably longer ago than most people in a particular site. I intend to suggest that this Chamber made a broadcast. we do not proceed with that plan, that we should adopt the scheme that I will outline. Mr. Bennett: What did you broadcast? Mr. Davies: Where would you put it­ Mr. SMITH: At that time I was dis­ in the Domain? seminating equally sensible remarks. In addition to the Taxation Building, we have Mr. SMITH: No. I would put the hon. vacant land in George Street alongside the member at one end of the Domain but I Chest Clinic, and in Mary Street we have would put the building somewhere else more the dilapidated old buildings that are used suitable. for the inspection of machinery on the site Perhaps the people who walk along formerly occupied by the Queensland Hotel. George Street do not realise that all I understand that site was resumed originally the ground on the western side, with the for the purpose of building a new Govern­ exception of the Bellevue Hotel, is Govern­ ment Printing Office. I do not know whether ment land. From Queen Street to this that is so, but to put a Government Printing Chamber, with the exception of the Bellevue Office in that part of the city would seem Hotel. the land is owned by the State, but to me to be rather a waste of a good site I do not think that anyone walking down in Mary Street. It is not far from the inner George Street with his eyes open would say part of the city. It is not necessary to have that all the buildings on the land are of a the Government Printing Office in the inner high architectural standard. They may have city today. With teletypes and electronic been say, half a century ago or nearly a machinery it is possible to have the machin­ century ago. The Treasury Building, the ery well removed from the compositors. For Executive Building, and the Government example, the compositors could work at Printing Office would no doubt get a place. Parliament House and the printing could be They would not get first prize, but they done outside. There is no reason why we might get a place. The Government are should have a building suitable for carrying now spending money on Harris Court and heavy machinery on that site. A printing the Government garage, and at some time office must be designed with a large slab they will probably put money into Binna floor, possibly two, and you cannot have a Burra. The only thing that I would like multi-storeyed building without increasing to see put into it is the blade of a bulldozer. the costs beyond commonsense limits. 842 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

On this matter of sensible utilisation, we superb combination of hills and a great find, too, that alongside the Chest Clinic in winding river. What Brisbane needs to George Street is a vacant piece of Crown go ahead is a great local sense of civic land that is used for parking Government pride and the men who are prepared to cars. No doubt this piece of land would be cut the red tape." very useful for the parking of Government I took a little personal satisfaction from cars, but we should not use valuable land what he said in his final column when he in George Street to park vehicles. Of course, criticised the Government for what they had we park cars in the grounds of Parliament been doing over the years. He said- House, but that is a different matter; we should have parking facilities here. "Another example is what they did to the Police Court building in George Street. There are other blocks of land in Edward Now there was a quaint old building, prob­ Street. There is also the piece of ground ably unsuited to such a highly-rated area. bought by the Main Roads Department, and Yet they didn't pull it down. All they referred to by the hon. member for Bris­ did was put a false front on it and call it bane in a question the other day. It was the District Court." resumed at a cost of £88,000. The proposal is to remove the Main Roads Department "The Courier-Mail" is a paper with a great from its present site and build a multi-storey amount of balance, judging by the articles State Government Insurance Office on it. that it publishes. It is prepared to regard There are more State Government buildings Brisbane as the tourist capital, a city with a around Anzac Square, a scattering of Gov­ big potential, one worthy of a plan to ernment Departments, all getting further and develop it as a city of beauty, and a help further away from the centre of the executive to the tourist trade. Government. My idea is that we should be It published a leading article on doing our utmost to have all Government 15 October, in which it referred to the State's departments within the measured mile, and growth and the report of the Co-ordinator we should be doing the sensible thing by plan­ General, Sir J ames Holt. It said- ning for it now. We cannot build them now, because we have not got the money, but "The resources are here and the will to we should be planning for it. We should succeed is here. It is true that seasons be able to say, "All of George Street from have been unkind and many people are the Treasury Building to Parliament House experiencing the worry and hardship of is to be developed for the siting of Govern­ drought. ment departments. We are not necessarily "They deserve sympathy and practical going to use the same blocks as we have help. But generally the State, because of today." We should do it as they have done water conservation and other improve­ in America with the United Nations build­ ments. is standing up better to drought than ing. We should build narrow, long and tall ever in the past. buildings, leaving spaces between them for "The big thing ..." light, air and beautification. Then anybody and this is the important part- who wishes to conduct Government business may be able to do it all in George Street. " . . . is to keep a sense of proportion and not to over-emphasise isolated reverses Mr. Davies: Would you take over both at home." sides? The isolated reverses that we are going Mr. SMITH: If the Botanical Gardens through will pass. When they do, it is then are to remain, I suggest we take a strip that I want to have in being a plan to of land opposite the Gardens and so make develop our city and our governmental centre. the area a thing of beauty in Brisbane. There is no doubt that the day will come Brisbane is the capital of the State, but when this city has its ring-roads and loop­ unless the capital is beautified we cannot roads. There is nothing more certain than expect to attract the tourist trade that the that. The other day I had to appear for State deserves. It is also the idea of people a client of mine, resisting a council refusal who have seen other buildings and other land to the erection of his building. That refusal beautification schemes in other cities. An was made because it had planned to build article appeared in the "Sunday Mail" of a ring-road through his land. It has already 16 October written by Mr. Keith Dunstan, developed the plan-I do not think there a well-known journalist in Queensland some is any secret about it-which will greatly years ago. He now writes again under the improve the area embracing the Spring Hill heading of "The Tourist Capital". district. An Honourable Member: The Gold Coast. Mr. Mann: It won't come to fruition in your time. Mr. SMITH: Not the Gold Coast. It means Queensland, and it means Brisbane as Mr. SMITH: Does the hon. member for the capital. Mr. Dunstan states- Brisbane not wish it to come to fruition? Perhaps he would like to retain the slums "Brisbane has far greater natural advan­ around there. tages than most of the great cities of Europe, an unequalled climate plus a Mr. Davies: Tell us where the slums are. Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 843

Mr. SMITH: If the hon. member wants to Mr. Mann: That is because you spend two obstruct the plan he must want to keep the hours a day here and the rest in the courts slums. If he wants to see the plan come to defending someone. fruition, he should lend his support to it. Mr. SMITH: That is not so. Mr. Mann: Where are you going to get the money from to finance it? Mr. Mann: You are a part-time politician. Mr. SMITH: As I said, we have not the Mr. SMITH: The hon. member for South money at the moment, but the plan for Brisbane is holding down not only his these ring-roads is being drawn up by the professional practice, but also the position of city council, and I am sure that there will municipal leader of the Labour Party, a be major roads in this part of the city. I position he has held for a number of years. think it is unlikely that the Brisbane River In addition he is now a member of Parlia­ area ringing the domain and up to Victoria ment. The same could be said of the hon. Bridge will be in great demand for intensive member for Sandgate. How can the hon. development, for which it is not suited. The member for Brisbane talk about people A.B.C. has tennis courts-not in very good who are holding down more than one job repair, either-on its land and there are a when one of his own colleagues is holding couple of foundry buildings on the Albert down three jobs? Street corner. Mr. Mann: Look at a lot of your fat Mr. Mann: The A.B.C. want to sell that friends and see what they hold down. property, if you are interested. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I would be Mr. SMITH: Perhaps we may be able pleased if the hon. member for Windsor will to do something about it. continue with his speech. Mr. Davies: What about the Queensland Mr. SMITH: The newspaper article Club? continues- "Although Parliament House rises to a Mr. SMITH: That is probably the only height of 103 feet to the top of the curved decent building in the whole block. The mansard roof over the Libraries, space buildings are mostly single-storey warehouses, within it is getting increasingly small in so it is obvious that the land in question relation to expansion of membership." is of no great use for industrial development. It points out that Parliament House was built If the Government want to extend they have for an era that is past. the opportunity in this area. Mr. Mann: The reporter would not know I again refer to "The Courier-Mail" of what he was writing about. He must have Tuesday, 11 October, in which appears a been drunk when he wrote it. statement under big head lines that Parlia­ ment House is bursting at the seams. The Mr. SMITH: I am not suggesting that we article reads- do anything with Parliament House. I am "Few Queenslanders realise that their suggesting a plan, and ultimately under the State Parliament, which has been meeting plan this building will disappear as Parlia­ in George Street since 1868, is bursting ment House. at the seams. Mr. Davies: Are you going to have a "Though there are 92 rooms in the dictatorship? building, space is so scarce that up to four members share a room to conduct their Mr. SMITH: This building will disappear. parliamentary activities. The House of Commons was bombed out and rebuilt, but that did not bring about a "A peep into its history will tell us why. dictatorship. Hon. members opposite cannot The building was erected when member­ understand anything even as simple as my ship of the First Legislative Assembly was suggestion. 26 from 16 electorates." Mr. Mann: How you could win Windsor Mr. Mann: Do you think that writer knew after that argument has me beaten. what he was writing about? Mr. SMITH: And my opponent beaten, Mr. SMITH: I think he knew what he too. This building houses the highest form was writing about. of Government, that is, the Legislative Mr. Mann: There are 16 of us in one Assembly, and it is totally unsuitable for the room and he says "four." There is one purpose. The three sides of Government are the Executive, the judiciary and the admin­ error. istrative. Hon. members have only to look Mr. SMITH: It could be that the position around to see how the Executive is housed. of the Opposition is worse because they are The members of the judiciary are housed in the fat, lazy politicians referred to by the the Supreme Court, another building con­ hon. member the other day. A look at those structed when there were fewer judges than on this side of the Chamber, including me, we have today and when litigants apparently will show that such people are hard to find did not mind walking up stairs. Today we over here. have motor-car accidents and some litigants 844 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply have not the use of limbs. Some may be bed not good architectural design. If we had a ridden. They have to be carried into court narrow building rising a multitude of storeys on stretchers and carried up the stairs. Hon. we could accommodate more efficiently and members opposite criticise my suggestion that effectively a far greater number of public we should have a court that will provide such servants on a much smaller piece of ground. persons with a degree of comfort. Those are I am not presenting any brief for the public the people on whose behalf I speak, not those servants. The public servant is simply a who sit in judgment, or barristers who argue person who has to work for the good of the cases. Litigants are entitled to have their the public. cases heard speedily and efficiently in suitable I suggest that the Government sell all surroundings and with the utmost comfort. the higgledy-piggledy bits of land they hold I do not mean that the surroundings should throughout Brisbane, and the Taxation Build­ be luxurious, but they should be comfortable. ing, if the public good can be enhanced by They should not be forced to wait around in selling them, and concentrate on developing a cold quadrangle where very few seats are a strip. I suggest selling the Taxation Build­ provided. That has been the position for ing because in a building of that kind with years. There are some seats, but they are high ceilings and out-moded windows, with few in number. When those are taken, other poor ventilation and light, if it is desired to persons have to stand in the quadrangle. turn it into a useful building it has to be Some litigants are aged and they are entitled to some comfort. rewired for lighting and the ventilation sys­ tem has to be altered. The Taxation Build­ Mr. Davies: Why have you not done ing has ceilings 11 feet 6 inches to 12 feet something? You have been four years as the high. In two floors of that building there Government. could be three today, and the present six floors could be replaced by nine in a new Mr. SMITH: Hon. members opposite were building of the same size. With the new in office much longer and they did very much techniques in use today and better partitions, less. The work done since this Government there would be much more room. The took office is a credit to them and I am not public servants could be accommodated con­ in any way criticising the Government for veniently and close to the seat of govern­ what they have not done. ment. That is what we need. We do not Mr. Bromley: A moment ago you said want more spread than we have already, there had been a lot more accidents lately. with the Railway Department, the State Government Insurance Office, the Titles Mr. SMITH: I am speaking of the period Office, and other departments, next to Anzac since the inception of the motor-car. When Square. That is as far as we can allow the Supreme Court was built there were no Government departments to get from the motor-cars and few push-bikes. People walked seat of government. or used horses. There were a few carts, but We should aim at an administrative centre. today there are trams and motor-cars and I hope that the river that flows so proudly pedestrians are knocked over by trams and may become a tourist attraction and become motor-cars. People are being hurt in motor­ visible once more from a road along this car collisions. These matters were not envis­ side. aged when the buildings were erected. If we could only inculcate in hon. members on the Mr. Hanlon: Does the hon. member say opposite benches a sense of reality and an that what he has mentioned is the reason appreciation of the buildings we might get why more people are leaving the State than somewhere. are coming into it? I have dealt with the legislative building Mr. SMITH: They are leaving the State and the Supreme Court. I come now to the probably because of the antics of the associ­ administrative building. The Treasury Build­ ates of the interjector, such as those at Eagle ing, no doubt, is a masterpiece of architec­ Farm aerodrome last Saturday. Those things ture and construction in its own right, but make people leave. the quadrangle has been filled up with what can only be called an excrescence. It is Having got to the position that we shall built inside the quadrangle, which formed develop a city centre and sell off all the part of the previous structure. That can higgledy-piggledy buildings, we will then be done today because of air-conditioning. start to do what I recommend, which is the We could fill in all the quadrangles-those common-sense thing, and plan for uniform in the Government Printing Office, the Exe­ buildings of a number of storeys on the sites cutive Building and the Lands Office­ I have referred to. It is not impossible. because the buildings can now be ventilated Let me remind the Committee of some of with air-conditioning and lit with fluorescent the changes about to take place. Some lights. All these buildings-the administra­ resumptions have been made already, one tive centre, the Executive Building, the Lands of land near the Chest Clinic for the develop­ Office and the Government Printing Office­ ment of the Chest Clinic. But we have a are using uneconomically the land on which huge chest hospital at Chermside. It seems they stand. Unless some plan is drawn up rather pointless to have such a hospital at for the use of the quadrangles it is not Chermside, admittedly under Commonwealth economical, and when they are used it is control, and a Chest Clinic in George Street. Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 845

I have not studied it but it would seem to not as the hon. member for Kedron sug­ me that to erect a building specifically for the gested it was. The building would house the Chest Clinic on that piece of land would Minister for Education and his staff, the teach­ be a waste of the site. No Chest Clinic ing staff and indeed everything connected could possibly need 11 storeys. Why even with the administration of education in the the hospital at Chermside does not rise as State. high as that. The future building in George Similarly the Lands Department building Street must be envisaged to be very small would house everything connected with the and I suggest the land could be put to better administration of public lands. The same use. Preferably, sell it. would go for each of the oth.:r Ministers. Mr. Grabam: Don't you think the Chest Perhaps two could be put in one building; Clinic being central, gives all the people a I do not mind that. reasonable chance of attending it? Mr. Aikens: In other words, you want Mr. SMITH: I suppose the hon. member about another £15,000,000 to be spent in would argue that having the Chest Clinic Brisbane? in George Street makes it ever so much easier Mr. SMITH: I want to see the city for the people of Thargomindah to attend developed as the capital of a very fine State. than the hospital at Chermside. The Museum is a building of cultural Mr. Aikens: And bag-and-bark humpies importance that is fast outliving its usefulness. for the North. Built years ago it is now outmoded and Mr. SMITH: If there are one or two people useless. fitted to live in humpies of that sort, let us Just over Victoria Bridge the old Bayards' build them for them. As the ramifications Building is used by the Agricultural Bank. of the Education Department spread out into What was once Smellie's building in Edward the far north, everybody will benefit from Street became the Industrial High School, more efficient organisation. It is efficiency and at the end of this year it will cease to for the State that matters, and my plan seeks be used for that purpose. to provide the utmost efficiency. It also provides the means of enabling One section of the old Port Office is used anyone who comes from an outside centre, by the Department of Labour and Industry. to conduct his local authority or semi-govern­ Goodness me, the Minister for Labour and mental business in the one building. No Industry has his office up in the Treasury country hon. member will deny that that will Building in George Street, and there is this be a great convenience to shire councils, shire branch office in Edward Street. council chairmen and shire clerks. Mr. Sherrington: He is always overseas. However, I was dealing with some of the Mr. SMITH: No, he is here. If the hon. buildings in the: city. In George Street, member for Salisbury had been in the Cham­ Harris Court is being remodelled at very ber he would have seen him. high cost. Whatt can remodelling do corr;­ pared with what can be done by razing the Mr. Sherrington: He is here quite often. building and co:nstructing a new one from scratch suited to the purpose and incorporat­ Mr. Sl\UTH: The Minister is here today. ing the most modern planned layouts in It is not much good the hon. member's accordance with the latest time and motion interjecting immediately he enters the Cham­ studies? ber. He lets us know that he is present but it is much better to look around first and Mr. Aikens: Money no object for Brisbane! learn what is going on. Mr. SMITH: People might say that, but The Trocadero, bought by the Railway people are saying it about Canberra, too. A Department when it intended to build a rail­ lake project has been approved there ano way bridge to connect the inter-State railway people are growling about it. But Canberra station with Roma Street station-- is a model of what I am suggesting, because Mr. Aikens: What has happened to that it has a plan and a developmental authority project? that says, "You will build houses there. You will build factories there. You will put this Mr. SMITH: I don't know, but I suggest building here, and the projected Parliament that the Trocadero is a building that could House will be there." In 1927 Parliament be put to some other use. If the Railways was opened in Canberra in a provisional still have it, let them sell it. If others need it, building, and they said, "Parliament House let them use it. It is just another building will be built here." Today they are com­ that shows there is no scheme of planned mencing to scrape the ground for the founda­ development of government offices. tions of that building-33 years later. Jn my scheme the Minister for Education Mr. Davies: Your Minister for Education would be in a separate building. He would is starved for funds. need a building-one housing the administra­ tive offices of all educational activities-and a Mr. SMITH: I notice that we have not very fine building it would be, because the heard one word in this Chamber in criticism educational status of Queensland is very high, of the spending of money on building the 846 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

United Nations Building in New York. There to rent available and there was no house are some buildings that must be built, and that she could buy. The Government there are some beautification schemes that re-organised the department-- people have thrust upon them. That is what happened in England. The bombing in Opposition Members interjected. England was probably a great blessing in Mr. SMITH: This is one thing that I am disguise, and I think that is recognised by giving hon. members opposite credit for. If people the world over. they interrupt me, they will not hear the only Mr. Aikens: The sooner we hold Parlia­ credit they are going to get in my speech. ment up in one of the igloos at Stuart, the I give the previous Government credit for more work we will get done. putting one department on the one floor, as far as possible, so that if you saw in the Mr. SMITH: I hope that when Parliament building directory that the department was sits in an igloo at Stuart the hon. member for on one floor, when you got out of the lift Townsville South is down here seeing one of at that floor, even though you might have to the departmental officers about some walk through partitions and go around information that he wants. corners, you found what you wanted. If we want this State to develop, we must In the Legislative Assembly we are doing plan for the future. I should say that today the direct opposite by not concentrating the Public Service in Queensland are utilis­ the parliamentary library in one area. All ing over 200 per cent. more floor space than the authorities and references that I have, they did 30 years ago, and it is probably show what they are doing in overseas cities, nearer 300 per cent. So as each decade which, like us are short of money, but passes there is an increase of 100 per cent. unlike us they are full of foresight and are in the floor space required, and if we, as prepared to plan and spend now, because the legislators of today and the planners for next year it will be dearer and in 10 years' tomorrow, are to do the right thing, we will time prohibitive. plan a balanced development of Government buildings. If we wish to increase the number Mr. Davies: Are you not prepared to of tourists coming to Brisbane, we must spend? make the city more attractive. The Gold Mr. SMITH: I trust that my scheme will Coast, the North Coast, and other parts of get some recognition. the State are important, too, but Brisbane I commend to the Department of Public must be made attractive. The buildings that Worh the scheme which is now coming I envisage are not lavish or lush; I am sug­ so much to the forefront in building­ gesting that they should be designed for ! refer to modular co-ordination. That might efficiency; but let them be of such a style seem to be a rather meaningless combination and size that we can incorporate in them of words but it simply means that you the latest building techniques and the great­ construct your buildings in such a way that est number of labour-saving devices. certain components, which are prefabricated, Look at what we put up with here and can be used in all the buildings that you the working conditions of people round erect. At present bricks are made to a Parliament House. Take the librarians. They standard size. The brickworks at Darra, have their library on this floor, on the next Newmarket, Beenleigh and Southport make floor, and over in a detached building. "Han­ bricks of a standard size. We have this sard" has one section here and records in standardisation in bricks; we have it to another place. Unfortunately, very few a certain extent in timber, but in no other hon. members opposite are prepared to admit part of the building trade. In Queensland that we can achieve much by taking bold we have the tendency towards the craft steps and big steps. process. The builder commences the build­ ing at the ground, works up to the roof, I am prepared to concede that the previous and then goes away. People today are Government did one sound and common­ paying for a motor car almost as much, sense thing, and if the interjectors will still in some cases, as they would pay for a their wagging tongues for a moment I shall house. Not one motor car today is built tell them what it was. I refer to the by the craft process but by process workers. re-organisation of the departments in the One man puts a part of the chassis together, building in Anzac Square. It took a long another man with a gun regulated at a time to build, and I am not suggesting that certain tension tightens a certain set of we should put up structures that take as nuts. Before he does that another man has long as that to build, but departments were put a certain number of bolts through a accommodated on one floor instead of on certain number of holes. Thus it goes on five floors. Take the Housing Commission. in this factory line production method until People who wanted a house-and these are the final article is produced and it stands the people who the Opposition say they want on its four tyres. It is mass production to help-had to go from one floor to but it is efficient. Today the cost of building another. For instance, a mother with her has far and away outstripped the increase 3 or 4 children might go in and make in the price of the components of building. inquiries about a house to rent when the purely and simply because the carpenter previous Government did not have a house who puts the weatherboards on the studs Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 847

is also putting the hinges on the door. With Mr. Davies interjected. a modular co-ordination system components of a standard size would be used in all Mr. SlVIITH: It is distressing when talk­ buildings. There might be two or three ing about something in this Chamber to hear standard sizes-there might be multiples of the hon. member-! do not want to call him them-but by the adoption of standard sizes, 'Orrible 'Orrie-interject and show clearly joinery works and other component manu­ that he does not understand what is being facturers, such as the makers of steel window said. frames would all be working to standard Mr. Davies: I could interject with a patterns. rhyme. Mr. Davies: It sounds like a machine Mr. SlVIITH: It could not be worse than age. his present interjections, so let us have t:te Mr. SMITH: It is a machine age-and rhymes. we are living in it. If the hon. member I am talking about certain disabilities cannot realise that he has had his time­ existing in the building trade today, and I he is out of date. am submitting that we should go in for a large building programme on a certain desig­ Mr. Davies: I am talking about the nated site. I suggest it be done in the same monotony associated with it. Does that manner in which the council is planning the appeal to your soul? city. Let us plan our Government depart­ Mr. SMITH: I am speaking specifically ments and bring them all together, if hon. of Government buildings. I do not care members like it that way, with the Executive if it is monotonous. I want efficiency. The Building the pride of them all. Let the new monotony will not affect the workers inside. Parliament House, which one day we must build, be the crowning piece of that collec­ Present-day veneers and plywoods are far tion of buildings. We will need a new stronger than the solid pieces of timber Parliament House; there is no doubt about that used to be hewn out of trees in years that. gone by. Huge pieces of timber would be used for architraves, etc. Those large pieces Mr. Thackeray: The Bellevue Hotel is of timber are not as strong as the laminated ramshackle on modern standards. structures of today, which are lighter and Mr. SlVIITH: Would the hon. member smaller and are produced at greater speed. agree that we should resume the Bellevue You cannot even get the timber today for Hotel and make it an attractive street right some of those slabs, and you do not want through? it because better methods are now in vogue. Mr. Thackeray: If you have the money, If this Government were to take a stand go ahead with these grandiose schemes. and encourage mass production in building it would not be doing anything new, because Mr. SlVIITH: Here we have an hon. mem­ it is a fact that we did mass produce once. ber from out-of-town showing a great deal We see evidence of that in the older parts of sense. He is not like another hon. mem­ of the city around Petrie Terrace and Spring ber from Townsville South who continually Hill, with terraces of apartments-a terrace wants something. I am glad to see the hon. here, a door there and a window here; then member for Rockhampton North showing the next one the terrace, door and window. such sense. We will have to return to that today in We should rationalise our building pro­ modern building and with modern materials. jects. We should not go any further with Mr. Davies: What about the University? the proposal to construct a new Main Roads Department building. Instead, we should Mr. SMITH: That is a particular example consider seriously utilising the best part of of the co-ordination about which I the land between here and the Supreme was speaking. My suggestion is that we Court. We own most of it. If that is not should endeavour to incorporate it into the enough for our plans, let us consider the whole of the building trade in this State block fronting the Botanic Gardens. We and throughout Australia. We have a know frQm the hon. member for Brisbane standard brick; let us have other standards that the A.B.C. wants to sell a piece of land as well. that would be ideal for some Government departments. Let us put up these buildings, I want to get away from the conditions using modular co-ordination. where a man says, "I want a house in which I want such-and-such a man's windows, such­ To give some point to my statements and-such firm's this, and such-and-such a about ability to cut down costs, I propose firm's that." Let us plan it the way a motor­ to incorporate an address given by the car is planned, with a set standard of tyres Government Architect in his private and a set strength of battery. With a car, capacity. It proves that the objective I if you are replacing the tyres, tyres of such have been espousing-that is, cutting down a size are there and if you are replacing the costs-is apparently not impossible. I the battery the battery of the required do not know the views of the Government strength is there. or the architects on planning, but I will 848 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

incorporate the article by the Government of Government subsidies. My colleagues Architect, Mr. E. J. A. Weller, in my here, from local authorities, must feel as speech for the purpose of setting out what I do because over the years when a subsidy can be done with modular co-ordination reduction has taken place we have always to cut down building costs and increase felt that it has been of great concern to building efficiency. If such ideas are the country and the local authority, and adopted by the trade, the new Government those responsible for it. buildings that I have suggested are not Another portion of the Budget did not out of the question; they will become one give any encouragement to the development of the centres of beauty in the city, and of secondary industries in this State. That the improvement in the beauty of the city is very serious. Some people may try to will · enhance the attractiveness of the State create the impression that there has been and improve the prosperity of the people. an improvement, and in some cases they I commend to the Government that this may claim that in different parts of the is the time for us to plan our future Govern­ city and the State secondary industry has ment buildings development, and to lay grown; nevertheless it should be encouraged down a hard-and-fast rule and earmark land to grow, and it should have grown to for the purpose before it becomes too dear a far greater extent. I feel that the Budget to resume. is a disappointment, and it will be a great Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (3.51 p.m.): The disappointment if some way is not found procedure adopted in a Budget debate is a in the future to overcome this great particularly good one. Hon. members have weakness. If we look at it realistically we an opportunity to discuss the Budget and will see that in our financial problems the also many other subjects that they could chickens have come home to roost. If not deal with on other occasions. hon. members would turn their minds back to 1945, which is not so long ago, they I have made a brief study of the Financial would see, with a little research into the Statement. From beginning to end it is legislation of the late J. B. Chifley, that an uninspiring document from the viewpoint he foresaw the present financial trouble when of assistance for the people of Queensland, he introduced the Commonwealth Bank paticularly those in the capital city. It Bills of 1945. After a little research I have fails to give relief to those who most need taken certain extracts from Banking Bills it-family units-in the form of housing to amplify my remarks. The Bills he and other facilities. I was disappointed in brought forward were for the post-war the Financial Statement in that no strong period. We are certainly out of the post­ appeal is made to the Federal Government war period now, but immediately after the to accept their responsibilities to the State. war the measures that were brought in I know that is the theme of many speeches were intended to ensure that financial by hon. members and people outside, and stringency such as we are suffering now to a certain extent it is a hackneyed one, would not occur. but nevertheless it bears repetition. At every I shall refer to Regulation 9 of the opportunity we should hit hard at the National Security Regulations. It is quite Federal Government because of their neglect clear that it was a war-time measure and of Queensland. The Financial Statement, I need not go into it, but if it worked instead of being critical of the Federal then for the economy of the country, why Government and the fact that they are not can't it work now? The credit regulations doing the right thing for Queensland, tended worked so well during the war years that to a defence of the Federal authorities in we were able to wage a war and bring the matter of their responsibilities to about a successful conclusion for the Queensland. One hon. member touched on democracies. something of great importance, that is, the need for a major project in Queensland Regulation 9 of the National Security along the lines of the Snowy River scheme. Regulations allowed a special accountancy Unless development of that magnitude is procedure to operate-it operated very well undertaken in the North, we will never have indeed-and at the end of February, 1945, full development of the State. the balance in that special account was £230,000,000. It proved to be a very Mr. Pizzey: Don't you call the Mt. Isa simple, elastic, and effective instrument of railway project a major undertaking? credit control. It is considered by many Mr. DEAN: Yes, but not of the magni­ knowledgeable people that if that control tude of the Snowy River scheme, and we had continued in operation, instead of being have waited a long time for the rebuilding repealed by the present Government, we of the Mt. Isa line. would be in a better position than we are in at the moment. If the special credit The Commonwealth Government cer­ control that I refer to had been continued tainly discriminate against Queensland. I was it would have helped many people, particu­ very disappointed to hear the Treasurer's frank larly those on fixed incomes. With the statement that if the relationship between cost-of-living problems people on fixed the Commonwealth and Queensland does not incomes are in dire circumstances. They improve, local authorities will be in a very are affected more than anybody else by bad way in the future through curtailment inflation. Supply (20 OCTOBER] Supply 849

It was not the purpose of the Common­ The few observations I have made on the wealth Bank Bill of 1945 to interfere with Budget are all that I intend to make at this domestic arrangements between the banks stage because I am not yet well versed in and their clients. It laid down only general State financial matters; I merely feel the principles, such as the control of rates of impact of them in the same way as the aver­ interest, advances and deposits, and rates age man outside does. I realise that of discount. We need that control more than ever today, when money is being budgets are designed in a certain way and channelled into wrong avenues such as hire that one has to be very expert to analyse purchase. them closely. The Bills were framed in such a manner However. as we are permitted to use the that the general purpose of the Common­ time allowed us in this debate to speak on wealth Bank was to make the greatest prac­ almost any subject, I should like to clear the tical contribution to the stability of the air a little about the Greater Brisbane scheme. currency, the maintenance of full employment I know that. sooner or later this Session. and the economic welfare of the community. Parliament will pass a Bill to amend the They were among the most important City of Brisbane Acts but I know, too. that features of everyday life. All will agree there will be a certain amoun.t of rush and that that is an essential function today. The bustle with legislation before long because party to which I have the honour to belong, progress in the Chamber has be.s;n slow so the Australian Labour Party, has always far. One naturally concludes that Bills will been firmly convinced of the soundness of the be rushed through at such a speed that hon. measures introduced by the late Mr. J. B. members will not have an opportunity to express themselves fully on them. Many Chifley in the post-war years. It has always believed in keeping the control of credit people are not familiar with the Greater firmly in the hands of the Commonwealth Brisbane scheme. Bank of Australia. The system of having Mr. Houghton: What do you want-more the Commonwealth Bank act as a central money for the Banyo roads? authority for banking control worked well during the war. Today that control has been Mr. DEAN: I will touch on that subject split in many ways and it is not now with later. I can assure the Committee that the Commonwealth Government but is vested in this debate I will take full advantage of in many private interests and private banking the opportunity to give full expression to concerns. The economic crisis of today is my feelings. Let me bring hon. members up a retribution for the crime of not keeping to date on the Greater Brisbane scheme, and on the statute book of legislation that would enlighten them, if they have not already have mitigated or to some extent controlled been enlightened, on the great help it has the evils we are suffering from. been to the city. With many others, I believe we would not have the city we have Another feature of the Bill was that it today had it not been for the inauguration allowed the Commonwealth Bank to compete of the Greater Brisbane scheme. It was with the trading banks and other financial brought in in 1925, and those of us who institutions. The relationship today is lop­ remember the conditions that prevailed prior sided because private banks have complete to that time, particularly in outlying areas, preference over the Commonwealth Bank in know only too well how much improvement the trading activities of the State. I have has taken place. The various shire councils had personal experience of that. People and local authorities were very sincere in have told me that they have approached their efforts, but, as they were frustrated by the Commonwealth Bank for financial the many different ideas and methods of assistance to build homes only to be told administration, the conditions were chaotic. that the bank could not lend the money. One Commonwealth Bank manager was frank Greater Brisbane came into being follow­ enough to say, "I have the money but I ing the passing by Parliament of the City of cannot lend it to you. If you go down Brisbane Act on 30 October, 1924. Now the road to a private bank I think you will we have the ward system where previ­ be looked after." His advice was sound, his ously there were 19 different councils prediction correct; the private bank advanced consisting of 205 aldermen and a number the money. The competition that exists of joint boards, apart from the tramway and electricity undertakings. It is obvious, between the Commonwealth Bank and the therefore, that it was a very big trading banks is very unfair. amalgamation, and in some ways it was an The Bill also laid it down that general experiment. I believe, as do many others, banking should be carried on by a separate that the experiment has been successful. division and no business could be refused just because today Brisbane can take its place with any city in the Commonwealth. Prior because it would be taken from another bank. to the amalgamation, there was a great deal That bears out my previous statements. of conflict between contiguous local authori­ Today, if the Commonwealth Bank conflicts ties. and it was obvious that some action had with another bank, the private bank is given to be taken to make Brisbane a city of preference. which we could be proud. 850 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Under the Greater Brisbane scheme, certain people owed £33,000, including a £22,000 boards were abolished-the Metropolitan electricity debt. They had a debit balance Electricity Board, Three Mile Scrub and in the bank of over £10,000. I know, even Bridge Board, and the Wattlebrae Hospital if the newer residents do not, that in Sandgate Board. The Brisbane Tramway Trust was and similar areas, many of the old residents abolished on 1 January, 1926, and the Metro­ are very thankful for the Act of Parliament politan Water and Sewerage Board on 1 that brought about the amalgamation of the April, 1928. various local Councils. In many ways it was economical for us Mr. Davies: You are entitled to speak on to have this amalgamation of the various their behalf too. wards and shires, because it gave us a com­ munity of interest and an incentive to make Mr. DEAN: Yes, and I am. something of the city of Brisbane. Under Mr. Melloy: Did it mean increased rates? the old system, 205 aldermen in 19 shires were paid £72,344 a year. The figure in the Mr. DEAN: Only a small increase. Since current budget of the Brisbane City Council the Greater Brisbane Council took over the for aldermen's salaries is £47,250. Alder­ increase has not been alarming over the men receive no out-of-pocket expenses and years. no milage allowance for running a motor car, and I feel that it must be realised that the An Opposition Member interjected. present method of administering the affairs of the city is very economical. Mr. DEAN: I read the story the other day of the part the Opposition played in the City It is interesting to note that one-third of of Brisbane Act. the State's population is in the Greater Bris­ bane area and that the City Council's budget The responsibilities of councils outside is bigger than the budget of some Australian Greater Brisbane are not the responsibilities States. We have also absorbed the additional of the Brisbane City Council. Council. responsibilities of administering the. tramways, Council colleagues of mine in many the _electricity undertakings, and the Water parts of the State have responsibilities too, Sewerage Board. The introduction of but not to the same extent as we have in the Greater Brisbane Scheme has saved the Brisbane City Council. We have the the people of Brisbane many thousands of responsibilities of a capital city. We give pounds over the years. Another fallacy that assistance to various charities; we give a should be aired is contained in the argument lot of relief to many organisations. We that we hear from time to time that repre­ grant subsidies just as the Government do, sentation on the Brisbane City Council should but on a far wider scale. The amounts may be confined to retired gentlemen of the city be smaller but we assist many associations. who can sit in the Council without any I am in complete agreement with the help remuneration. That argument presupposes that we give to church organisations in Brisbane. the representation shall be restricted to men No church property within the Greater and women in the community financially able Brisbane area is subject to rates. All church and prepared to give their time gratis. That properties are exempt. would not be good for the city. It would be contrary to the present-day concept of Mr. Houghton: Does that include water democracy that we should restrict the admin­ rates? istration of a democratic department to one Mr. DEAN: No. Church organisation section of the community. relief was introduced in 1936 and the council Another contentious matter is that Party decided to give consideration to the various politics should be kept out of Council religious organisations. In 1936 the relief activities. The supporters of that argument given to churches amounted to £155,000. should refer to the records of local govern­ Hon. members can gauge for themselves the ment in the Old Country. Research has assistance that the council has given since revealed to me that the London County then. I point that out to show the responsi­ Council, since its inception in 1889, has bility that has been accepted by the council clearly defined a Party division between its and the increased expenditure it has incurred. members. It has always had that clear Party That is one reason for the continual appeals division between local authority repre­ by the Council for assistance for increased sentatives. From the beginning of the subsidy. Greater Brisbane scheme many of the inner Many of the outside areas could be wards naturally have benefited to a greater developed at a faster rate than at present and extent than the outside wards. But I venture brought to a very high standard if we could to say that outside areas, such as the one get more money. We feel aggrieved that we J represent, and places like Wynnum and cannot get money to develop them. The Manly, have benefited to a far greater extent Sandgate area could be turned into an than they would have done had they been I I admirable tourist resort, as said the other ieft to their own resources. have a good day. It could be developed to attract a far knowledge of the conditions in my area prior to the Greater Brisbane amalgamation under greater number of tourists than at present. the City of Brisbane Act. I know how far Mr. Davies: It is a charming little seaside Sandgate was in debt in 1925. The Sandgate resort. Supply [20 OCTOBER] Suppiy

Mr. DEAN: It is indeed. It would be one As I said earlier, I intend to discuss a of the most charming in Queensland if we variety of subjects. I turn from local auth­ had the money necessary to bring it to the ority affairs to a matter affecting hon. standard it des·erves. However, as time goes members personally. I have been in Parlia­ on, I feel sure that money will be made ment only a short time, but I have discussed available. the matter with some of my colleagues. Hon. members on both sides of the House should I urge the Government also to consider have an opportunity to travel throughout the special grants to areas in which schools are State. The practice is adopted to a great adjacent to dusty roads. I know this is a big extent in the Federal sphere; Federal mem­ problem, and a costly one, but over the years bers visit New Guinea and other Common­ it would pay handsomely in the improved wealth territories. I commend the practice. health of the school children. Roads should be sealed for a radius of two miles around Mr. Davies: They are sent out to find the each school area. I am sure that would have Prime Minister. the effect of reducing sickness and absentee­ ism among school children. Mr. DEAN: Whatever the purpose, I commend the policy. Travel throughout the Whilst dealing with council activities I State would broaden the outlook of hon. think I should refer to an incident that members. They would return with a know­ occurred in my electorate last night, if to do ledge of the electorates of other hon. nothing more than impress on hon. members members and the problems of other areas. that council administration and finance loom large in the public mind at present, so far as I was horrified at some of the comments Labour Party representatives are concerned. of the hon. member for Windsor about Much discussion has taken place in this Government-owned properties. He should Chamber recently on pressure groups. Such exercise some discretion. He should not groups are particularly active in the local­ urge that we get rid of certain valuable authority sphere, and "The Courier-Mail" this properties or that we should use them for morning made mention of a typical example other than their present purposes. We should -a mass meeting in the Banyo area, con­ resist the destruction of good buildings vened by the Banyo Progress Association. I throughout the city and we should hesitate would say that 99 per cent. of the people at before we take action to chase industries out that meeting were new residents of the area. of the city. The city should have in it a The older residents would have more sense variety of interests and secondary industries and would realise the cause of the short­ should be encouraged. I know a lot has been comings complained of. said on planning and the ring-growth system and many other aspects of the city's develop­ The intimidatory tactics used in this case ment, but I do not altogether agree with him are typical of those used on virtually all when he advocates taking portion of the aldermanic representatives. I have been Botanic Gardens, or a portion of George informed by different people in the district Street, or erecting more public buildings. I that the progress association is engaged in would rather see the establishment of more certain other activities of which district pro­ secondary industries and the decentralisation gress is the least important. Any person can of Government than see more public build­ join these associations, walking in and out at ings going up. If the time should come will. Progress associations are very democratic when the Government commence to dispose institutions, but some people use them to of Government buildings in the city I hope intimidate their elected representatives so as they will do the right thing by the Brisbane to get favours or improvements in their dis­ City Council. That applies not only to the tricts. I refer to that matter in passing only State Government, but to the Commonwealth to prove that members of Parliament and Government. aldermen in addition to attending to the everyday requirements of their constituents Mr. Hughes: Do you agree that the State have to stave off personal and abusive should sell its unoccupied lands in the city attacks. area so that the council will benefit by the Some of the passages in the newspaper rates from them? article are amusing. One of those at a meet­ Mr. DEAN: That is the point. If they are ing said that only seven of the 49 roads in going to use the land the council should be the Banyo area had been reconstructed and reimbursed for the loss of revenue over the sealed. I wish the percentage in the Sandgate years. I have made a rough check-it was ward as a whole was as high. I do not think very difficult to get the actual figures-and, the work done in this area of 19! square if all the Government-owned buildings, both miles is a bad effort. It is significant that State and Commonwealth, in the city of such attacks are directed at representatives Brisbane paid the full general rate to the just prior to an election. The one I have Brisbane City Council, the council would gain referred to is no· exception to the rule, as the over one penny in the £1. I could next Council election will occur in 1961. not get the exact figure as it was not avail­ Mr. Dewar: Are you talking about Banyo? able to me, but it would be over a penny in the £1. That would be a great Mr. DEAN: Ye5. help to the city council. 852 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

If the hon. member's suggestion is ever advocacy, something will be done about restor­ taken seriously and the Government decide ing the Domain as a place for people to to dispose of these buildings, I hope the city express themselves freely. We cannot prac­ council will be reimbursed for the rates it tise the principles and tenets of democracy has lost over the years. A good deal of if we have not such a place for the average money is needed to run the city. Some citizen. people may dislike Brisbane, but we must realise that the capital city is the shop­ Mr. Hughes: Only ratbags get up on the window of the State. It is the window that soapbox at the Domain and places like that; the people look through when they first come nobody else is interested. to Queensland before moving farther afield. Mr. DEAN: The hon. member for Kurilpa A very disappointing thing occurred some is quite wrong. There may appear to be a years ago in the Botanic Gardens when the lack of interest but that is only because the orchestral shell was constructed. It was a amenity is not there. It is the inherent right joint effort, and I admit that criticism could of every man to express himself freely and at be levelled at the council representatives on length on any subject, but Brisbane's citizens the advisory committee. It is a tragedy that are deprived of that birthright. £15,000 was spent on its construction. It has never served the purpose it was intended Mr. Hughes: Only Aikens and Mann and for because the elements play great havoc their kind go in for that sort of thing. with anyone using it and it is almost unten­ Mr. DEAN: Unfortunately, people are able for concerts or any type of dancing not given the opportunity in Brisbane. In display at a certain time in the afternoon. this Parliament we can express ourselves, It is a pity that more advice was not sought but others do not have the same scope before it was built. Some advice was sought and freedom as we do to speak to from the University people, but somebody our heart's content, in a place like a public must have made a mistake when the shell Domain. Rights like freedom of speech was sited. It is virtually a dead loss for cannot be suppressed for very long. That has the purpose for which it was intended. Some been demonstrated in other countries. Sup­ day the Government and the council will press something and it will break out else­ have to get together and cut the losses on where. It is far better to let people the shell and either remove it or build air their grievances. Let them expound another one. A good one is sadly needed. their pet schemes and their ideas for Another shell could be built in Albert Park the betterment of the State and the country. or somewhere on the Terrace, where it If we call ourselves true democrats and pride could be fully utilised. ourselves on practising democracy, we must Another thing that helped to develop the set aside a place for the average person to city and gave it standing and prestige in the express himself in public. eyes of the world as a capital city was the I am pleased to note the development of establishment of the Queensland Conserva­ the North Coast beach areas that has taken torium of Music. For many years various place over a period, particularly in the last organisations and representatives met and 12 months. I do not wish to say anything put up very strong agitation for the estab­ derogatory of the Gold Coast, or the South lishment of a Conservatorium of Music in Coast-I respect the hon. member who repre­ Brisbane. I am very happy to say that sents that area-but in the past there has been it is playing its part fully in the cultural too much concentration on it and too much development of the State and giving to interest shown in it to the detriment of the students locally opportunities for musical North Coast, especially with surfing beaches training so that they do not have to leave and bathing facilities. I have spent my whole the State for it, as they did in years gone life in this State, and nothing distresses me by. I am very glad that it was established more than to go to the North Coast and see when it was most needed because over the the great potentialities that have been neg­ years people were very downhearted and lected there for the sake of developing a despaired of ever having a Conservatorium sand area, which, in my opinion, is all the in Queensland. South Coast is. Although I like driving and Mr. Newton: It was established by the I go down there, I do not like its artificial Australian Labour Party. atmosphere. Outside of my own home, I get my greatest contentment and relaxation Mr. DEAN: Yes, by our own Government, on the North Coast. and many men and women played a very important part in setting it up. As time goes Mr. Hughes: This Government have opened on and it increases in status and acquires up the North to tourists. an atmosphere like those in the older countries Mr. DEAN: I am speaking now as a of the world, it will be known in other Queenslander. I hope also that the develop­ lands as a place to send students to gain ment of Bribie Island will not be left solely to very valuable knowledge. private enterprise. I hope it will be developed Another subject that is very close to me on sensible and sound lines and that specu­ is the importance of establishing a public lators will not be allowed to use it to their forum in Brisbane. I mentioned it in my own advantage, as they have been in some maiden speech, and, if we persist in our areas on the South Coast. I know Bribie Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 853

Island, and I should not like it to be left to efficiently, as cheaply, or as enthusiastically the speculators and the money-makers. As as shire councils in Queensland do. They are an example, land in the Brighton area, which rendering a wonderful service. The sub­ is in my electorate, has been sold to sidies that are required to keep them going Asians who have never seen it; they now are but a fraction of what it would cost have bought it as an investment. Some to do the same job by any other method. of the best land in Brisbane is now lying idle and cannot be built on. It is no good to I think the Treasurer put it very well in Queensland or Australia. In my opinion, his Financial Statement when he referred to Bribie Island could become one of the lead­ the desirability of a high rate of recover­ ing playgrounds on the coast, a place where ability, but that this should not be allowed people could relax with every degree of to enslave. It proves that he is extremely comfort. conscious of how the State's finances must be husbanded to return the utmost benefit for all Mr. Hughes: You must agree that this available loan moneys. This State, large as Government are doing a great deal for it is and crying out for development, demands tourism on the North Coast. men of rather wide vision. We must think Mr. Adair: Go right up north. big. It is going to cost tremendous sums of money but it is our duty to continue to Mr. DEAN: Before going to the Far North, endeavour to supply the working tools for the I think we should develop the areas nearer people to develop this State. Therefore, our to the city. We should work north gradually irrigation projects are of vital importance to and develop the State progressively, not jump us and I will endeavour to point out the all over the place like a grasshopper. It is great economic advantage to Queensland, and no good spending £1,000 in one area and then to Australia-more particularly to the Com­ £1 ,000 in another area; the development must monwealth Government-of what is known be orderly. Money spent on developing the as the Tinaroo Dam scheme-the Mareeba­ North Coast surfing beaches would benefit the Dimbulah irrigation scheme. State as a whole. Those who conceived that scheme in Mr. GII~MORE (Tablelands) (4.40 p.m.): I the beginning were bold and courageous, take this opportunity to congratulate the and they did a mighty job in the develop­ !reasure; on his clear and concise approach ment of Queensland. But they did one m bnngmg home the details of the State's thing wrong in planning the allotted areas financial position to the Committee, and the for farms because they had no personal know­ people of the State, in simple language that ledge of the requirements. They believed leaves nothing to the imagination. they could build a dam and that was all that was in it. At that stage the Burdekin The Opposition have had very little but scheme was on the verge of collapse, and it praise for the Budget; to a marked degree did c.ollapse because of the Labour Party's there has been a tendency to avoid discussing mismanagement. We had to save the soldiers it. Even the Leader of the Opposition said who were put there by the Labour Party that it was one of frankness, but then he and relieve them of the responsibility for went onto his pet subject and defended the repayment. That was because of insufficient Australian Labour Party. knowledge on the part of the scheme's One of the best speeches we have heard planners. The areas they allottw were too so far was delivered by the Leader of the small. Queensland Labour Party, the hon. member I said in this Chamber before-and it is for Carnarvon. He, at least, gave us food worth repetition-that the Tinaroo dam for thought in his approach. This morning scheme would have fallen had this Govern­ we heard one of the most analytical speeches ment not come to office. They enlarged that it would be possible to present. I refer the areas and salvaged the whole scheme. to the speech made by the hon. member for Burdekin. Mr. Davies: You had the same advisers as I shall confine my comments to two very we had. important points. The Treasurer's first Mr. GILMORE: No. point of major importance in the Finan­ cial Statement was his reference to local­ Mr. Adair: How many fell in the Morgan authority subsidies. I should very much settlement? regret to see any reduction in the Govern­ ment's support for local Authorities. If Mr. GILMORE: I think it was the Forgan any body of citizens is to be congratulated Smith Government who wronged those men. for serving the State in a civil capacity it is Labour wronged them there and they had the local authority. Local authorities have to walk off it. done an excellent job, one that we can all be Mr. Adair: It had nothing to do with proud of. If we do not continue granting the Government at all. subsidies, which have proved so beneficial to the various districts, some other form of Mr. GILMORE: The Tinaroo Dam was assistance must take the place of that scheme. opened in September, 1959, a little over It would be very difficult to get any board 12 months ago. That was the first time that or any other instrumentality to operate as water was taken across the Great Divide 854 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

in North Queensland and it was impossible imported tobacco-but if that argument is to gain any appreciable increased production accepted in respect of tobacco it could be from the stored water in a seasonal crop that argued that we could import sugar at commenced in September. I should like, how­ 3.2 cents. a lb. and that we should there­ ever, to give hon. members the figures for fore close down the sugar industry and so the first year. There were 5,886 acres of save money. Could we dare to close the tobacco planted and the weight of leaf pro­ industry merely to get cheaper sugar? Could duced was just over 5,000,000 lb., the farm we dare to hamstring the tobacco industry return being £3,147,418. merely because the Commonwealth Govern­ Mr. Annstrong: What year was that? ment can get excise from other sources? Mr. Hiley: The illustration does not apply Mr. GILMORE: The year just ended. only to tobacco. It could be applied to Aus­ Mr. Annstrong: Very good. tralian motor-cars, television sets, refrigera­ tors and everything else. Mr. GILMORE: That is the first year. I believe that, in making the case for Federal Mr. GILMORE: That is right. aid for products such as that, these points I believe we have an excellent case both must always be presented on a firm, sound, for Commonwealth assistance and for an and actuarial basis, if I may put it that way. increase in the allocation for irrigation. The farm return, and I stress the word The tobacco industry in Australia is "farm," was £3,147,418, but the Common­ hastening towards self-sufficiency. If we in wealth Government received in excise duty Queensland do not expand the other States just on £7.7 million. This is the first year will leave us far behind. of operations. Less than £15,000,000 has been expended on the scheme, although it Mr. GILMORE: From time to time in this is a £20,000,000 scheme. The Common­ Chamber we have heard of references on wealth return from excise, I repeat, was £7.7 finance to the Federal Government. I agree million. wholeheartedly that we have not received comparable assistance for our projects. I say Mr. Hiley: On the analogy of the hon. that as a former Federal member, but that member for Burdekin, they are getting more does not mean that we can be other than than half the cow. dignified and correct in our bargaining. Let Mr. GILMORE: They are getting the lot, us keep to the high level that the Treasurer but that is not the whole picture. and the Premier have always maintained when dealing with the Federal Government. As the scheme gains momentum-and it is not really under way yet; far from it­ Government Members: Hear, hear! the return will be much greater. This year's plantings amount to 8,500 acres, approxi­ Mr. GILMORE: I have heard references mately 50 per cent. above those of last to the Rt. Hon. John McEwen. I do not year. Assuming the season is similar, the want anybody to misunderstand me on this. yield of tobacco will be 7,500,000 lb. the I have worked with him and I am proud to farm return will be just under £5,000,000 and say that I have. The people of Australia do excise will amount to £11.6 million. I am not know, and can never appreciate, how presenting this information as a case for much they owe him. I can well recall when Federal aid for this great project. the appreciation of our currency was being discussed. It would have cost every primary The dam has a capacity of some 68,000 producer who was exporting 25 per cent. irrigable acres, of which some 50,000 acres John McEwen, with the rest of the Country are suitable for tobacco, or are tobacco Party, opposed it. soil. On a three-year rotation just over 16,000 acres a year would be under tobacco Mr. Duggan: I do not think you need to alone. Assuming that we have normal be particularly proud of your stand on that seasons, the return from a £20,000,000 matter. I think you did a great disservice. scheme will be £10,000,000 a year from Mr. GILMORE: The hon. member would tobacco alone, and excise will amount to think that because he wants cheap goods. He £23,000,000. If that is not a good business would not have had a Holden car; he would proposition, I should like to hear of a better have had cheap galvanised iron. If hon. one. I have spoken only of tobacco, but members want cheap things they get them. the land will grow cotton. Over and above the 16,000 acres used each year for tobacco, Mr. Duggan interjected. 50,000 acres will be available for cattle­ fattening and the production of maize, Mr. GILMORE: New Zealand had to get £10,000,000 to keep going. It is well known sorghum and cotton. I refer particularly that this country depends heavily on wool. to cotton, because excellent cotton is grown When the Korean war broke out it was in the area. I believe that in those facts suggested from America that we peg our we have a clear-cut case for Commonwealth wool price at 24d. a lb. and John McEwen aid. went to Washington as fast as he could. That It could be argued that the Common­ was to be Australia's contribution to the wealth Government would get their excise world organisation. I am very glad my friend in any case-that they would get it from has come in because I am sure that he did Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 855 not know these facts, and that he was goaded Now I want to tell the Committee a little by irresponsible people into saying what he about the Atherton Tableland. As a maize­ said. growing and dairying area it has suffered from repeated disastrous seasons. I appeal Mr. Duggan: Are you attacking the hon. to the Premier and the Minister for Agricul­ member for Gregory now? ture and Forestry to supply the Atherton Mr. Rae: I think he might be. Tableland with a maize-breeder. Returns have dropped successively over the years to Mr. GILMORE: Had the price for wool half a ton an acre and that is not good been pegged at 24d. a lb. there would have enough. The farmers there need assistance been no necessity for an aerodrome at urgently and I hope the Government will Windorah. There would have been very few make a plant-breeder available. people in the West and nobody representing Gregory in this Chamber. It would have The State farm at Kairi is doing one of been a closed and desolate area. the greatest jobs for the farmers it is pos­ I turn now to the beef industry. It is not sible to do and I pay high tribute to the generally known that John McEwen was officer-in-charge and the field staff. responsible for the 15-year meat agreement Mr. Hiley: Is that deterioration of maize with Great Britain. Before that agreement production due to the type of maize grown was made the grazier was on the "bone"; he or to the exhaustion of the soil? could not afford anything. Now he is referred to as the wealthy grazier. He is referred to Mr. GILMORE: I think it is the culmina­ in this Chamber as the grazier who will not tion of a series of events; but that is for sell his beef in Queensland but takes it to a an expert to answer, not me; I am not a better market in New South Wales. The hon. maize-grower. The State farm has shown member for Brisbane said that the wealthy what can be done with improved pastures grazier does that, and then he said, "Do you and the use of legumes. I think it was the blame the dock-workers for not working for hon. member for Sandgate who suggested £15 a week when they can get £18 a week?" that hon. members should travel round the The same argument applies to both classes of State. If they do, I should like them to see people. Today the graziers can afford to live the work that is being done at the State in houses worthy of those who live in the agricultural farms, particularly those at Kairi outback, and they can increase the quality and Parada. Parada is in the Tinaroo area, of their herds. The workers are better paid and they have selected a variety of soils than ever. All this is the result of the 15-year in a square mile of country, or thereabouts. meat agreement. They are growing grasses and legumes When Argentina was unable to meet its together, and the carrying capacity on the obligations to the American market, the worst soil they could find is a credit to escape clause was invoked by which second­ them. The C.S.I.R.O. experimental station grade beef could be exported from Australia, is doing a wonderful job with tobacco, and and we enjoyed greater prosperity than ever. I believe that the biggest scourge in the pro­ We can all remember, a few short years duction of tobacco will soon be mastered ago, the disastrous and unhappy experience by the scientists. of war with Japan and the hatreds engen­ Mr. Rae: What causes your biggest losses? dered; but today Japan is accepted as a customer who purchases large quantities of Mr. GILMORE: Blue mould. our wool, and our sugar, and some of our minerals. I should like to express the thanks of the people of the Gulf Country, an area that I Mr. Adair: Why should they be? have the honour to represent, for the road Mr. GILMORE: They are our customers. system that has been built and the roads John McEwen made that possible and he that are now envisaged. If we do not have protected every one of our industries. our tongues in our cheeks when we talk about developing the North, we know how The people in the dried-fruit industry necessary these roads are. were starving; they could not sell their fruit, until John McEwen negotiated an agreement Mr. Rae: Will they bring about an improve­ with the United Kingdom. ment in our cattle? The percentage system has been largely Mr. GILMORE: I think they will bring responsible for the expansion of the tobacco about that improvement quicker than any­ industry and that is entirely the work of the thing else, because the quality will improve Rt. Hon. John McEwen. as the roads are built. The 15-year meat Mr. Duggan: What did he do for Artie agreement will assist the graziers and will Fadden? also provide better water facilities and better stocking, and eventually the consumer must Mr. GILMORE: He will be judged by get a better product. The proposed roads history-and history will be his judge, not in the Gulf Country will also provide greater this Assembly-as one of Australia's great­ employment for the railway workers, road est statesmen, and I am proud to say that hauliers, and meat-workers on the coast in he is one of Nature's greatest gentlemen. the years to come. 856 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Rae: Do you think that country will Mining in Queensland is on the "up-and­ ever be able to provide a good type of up." At last the money for the rehabilitation chiller beef? of the Mt. Isa railway line is forthcoming, and that great mining concern can triple its Mr. GILMORE: That is for the cattle-men production. When I was up there Mr. Fischer to answer. I am not a cattle-man; it is not told me that they could mine 30,000 tons a in my line at all. day for 200 years without seeing the end of The Peninsula was deserted when Labour the lode. Not very far from there, in miles Governments were in office. One-third of as we measure them up there, the great the total rainfall in Queensland falls in Broken Hill concern has discovered the Con­ Cape York Peninsula and, although the stance Range iron ore deposit. It does not Burdekin is the biggest river in Queensland, mean much when you say "Constance the river carrying the biggest volume of Range," but what is it going to write in the water is the Mitchell. Rivers abound in the pages of Queensland's history? It is the big­ Peninsula, and the country is well watered. gest deposit of iron ore in Australia-some The Labour Party deserted it and left it say it is the biggest in the world. It has been for dead. The graziers had no hope of said in the Chamber that at Blair Athol in getting their stock to market until the Central Queensland we have the largest coal "Wewak" came into operation and this deposits in the world. Let us combine the Government pushed the roads through. two and make Queensland the greatest indus­ Mr. Adair: Who brought the "Wewak" in? trial State in Australia. It could provide all Australia's needs and, at the same time, Mr. GILMORE: Johnson & Cummings export to the rest of the world. Let us con­ brought the "Wewak" in, and they did a vert our natural resources into the finished wonderful job to assist the graziers in that product. I am reliably informed that area. Constance Range is a great iron-ore deposit. Opposition Members interjected. In the electorate of my friend the hon. member for Cook-I do not like going into Mr. GILMORE: Mr. Taylor, may I ask if his electorate; he is jealous of it-there is this is quite in order? the Weipa bauxite field extending from one side of Cape York Peninsula to the other and The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have given coming out on the other side of Arnheim many warnings about continuous interrup­ Land. Who knows what wealth is there to be tions. As the hon. member has drawn my recovered to our advantage? attention to the fact that he cannot continue his speech because of continual interruptions, Then there is Mary Kathleen, the uranium I now warn every hon. member for the mine. What a great producer that is! first time that they will be behaving in a An Opposition Member interjected. disorderly manner if they again interrupt the Mr. GILMORE: They got £450,000 for hon. member who is speaking. the road, but that is another story. Mr. GILMORE: Sea transport is a great I want to appeal especially for assistance boon to the Gulf Country. To assist the for the tin-mining industry. I think I would "Wewak" to bring the cattle to the market be correct in saying that more tin is pro­ the Clauson line put two ships on. The duced in the Tablelands electorate than in excellent appointments for the cattle are a any other electorate in Australia, but the credit to them. During the five days' journey price of tin is not sufficiently high to encour­ to the meatworks the cattle are fed all the age expansion of production. time; water is always available. Consequently I think we should do well to look closely they arrive with a minimum weight loss. at the tin-mining industry. Let us endeavour To the grazier in the first instance, and to the to get a stabilised price based on 200s. a unit. nation as a whole in the second, it is a I am ~ure that that would encourage pro­ service to be very grateful for. duction and we are far from self-sufficient It is pleasing to note that, with the develop­ in tin. Then, if we follow that up and apply ment of road transport by Burton Bros., the same taxation concessions to tin as we cattle are being bought from the Gulf and the do to gold, that would be the necessary added Peninsula to railheads. Road transport in inducement. conjunction with sea transport has been If we are sincere in wanting to develop responsible for more money or more "station this country we must encourage these indus­ return"-if I could put it that way-to the tries. We do not want to continue develop­ grazier. Every time I travel throughout my ing around the cities, as my friend from area I see more bulldozers building dams and Southport said. Let us take a broad view. turkeynests and blocking up gullies. Produc­ I pass now to the great job that has been tion is on the way. The country is now done in relation to electricity supply. We experiencing development. We all talk about had to step in and salvage the Tully scheme developing the North. It has really started from the mess it was in, and complete it. for the first time in 25 or 30 years. The Now it is of great benefit to North Queens­ nation has been liberated from the yoke of land but we are running short of time. Time Labour politicians. Great progress is taking is running out because we have encouraged place and we can look forward to prosperity. people to use electricity. Supply [20 OCTOBER} Supply 857

Mr. Pizzey: They have the money to use regeneration of growth-and we have to it. think of the generations yet to come-let us be scientific in our approach and exhaust Mr. GILMORE: Yes. That brings me to every avenue, because once the damage has the iniquitous surcharge with which the been done it can never be repaired. Labour Party oppressed the people in out­ back areas in true Labour form. The sur­ I have seen areas on both the Tableland charge was 10 per cent. outside Cairns and and on the coast that should never have it went up to 150 per cent. in Mt. Garnet, been opened up. They have now gone back out in the bush. That is what the Labour to wild tobacco and bracken; they have Party did. We as the Government were not produced what it was hoped they would. able to lift that surcharge. I am proud of If we undertake this proposal, let us have the Government that did that but, because a full investigation so that we may have full of the demand, we now have to build a big­ knowledge. With great respect to those who ger, better, and stronger powerhouse on the want it-and every one of them is a Barron Falls. The sum of £10,800,000 has practical man-the hon. member for Herbert, been allocated for that. Can anyone say it Mr. John Murray, is fattening cattle on is not warranted? It is developing the North. third-rate country-and so are the Atkinsons Until the waters of the Tinaroo Dam are and the Allinghams and a lot of others, required for the growing of crops, they can on good cattle land. He is in the be used free of charge for the benefit of the scrub country where the cabinet timbers people who require electricity. grow. This is my reason for believing we should hasten slowly in this scheme. Money should be allocated for the Flaggy Creek Dam, to take up the leeway, and gangs The small towns on the Atherton Table­ of surveyors are now working in the Herbert land have only one outlet for industry, and Gorge, determining the sites for storage that is the timber industry. Over the years dams. If the Government remain in office we have let the big mills on the coast -and there is no doubt they will while the draw their supplies from the Tableland. By rift exists-! am sure that the Herbert Gorge doing that they have preserved the timber will be developed and so add to the electricity at their very front door. Within 7 miles­ supplies of North Queensland. as the crow flies-from Cairns Timber Limited in Cairns there are millions of feet Mr. Davies interjected. of timber on the Whitfield Range and in . Mr. GILMORE: I do not normally inter­ the upper head of Freshwater Creek that Ject and I very seldom reply to interjections, have never had an axe in them. They stand but I have been asked by the hon. member today just as they were when Captain Cook for Maryborough what Mr. McEwen did for sailed by. That timber is within 7 miles the Burdekin. Anyone who has studied the of Cairns, yet those mills are denuding the Burdekin scheme would know that the Tableland and taking the industry away from economics of it were based on three sugar the small towns. There is timber in the mills, each with the capacity of the Tully Daintree area and at Mulgrave_ and Tully Mill. With a world over-supply of sugar, that they could take. We will have ghost what would be our position today if we had towns on the Tableland if we continue to three more mills pouring sugar onto the mar­ denude the Tableland. We will drive the ket? Anyone who suggested that would not people away. We should stop the rot. Far be very popular with cane-growers. too much in this State goes to the city. . I turn now to the Tully lands and the open­ It seems to be the idea to build a bigger mg of them. We have in the Tully area a Brisbane. a bigger Sydney, a bigger Mel­ belt of country growing indigenous timbers bourne and a bigger Canberra and take that are unsurpassed in cabinet qualities. the people out of the bush. I wonder if hon. Nowhere else in Australia can we or do we members saw the statistics the other day produce such timber. We must c~nsider th~ showing that we have lost people from the proposed utilisation of that land. Much of bush. Because We are allowing these things it is low-lying, swamp country that could to happen, we are losing them. I counsel be put under grass, but before we open up along these lines those in Cabinet who are the area we should first of all declare cer­ responsible. tain parts of it as State forests and so pre­ Mr. Davies: Which Minister are you hittrng vent the cutting out of timber supplies. State at now? forests should be declared immediately. Mr. Gll-MORE: I am speaking of matters We seem to be going through an evolution­ that are of great importance to Queensland. ary period in cattle-fattening. Liquid feed is Now that the Theatre Royal has closed its now. av.ailable and feed-lot fattening is doors. I hope that some hon. members will commg mto vogue. I read recently that in one paddock of 80 acres in America 11 000 not try to make this Chamber take its place. cattle were being fattened under the feed-lot These are matters of vital importance and system. At Kaban on the Evelyn Tableland we must tackle them on that basis. Mr. Alf Johnston is carrying out a similar I wish to refer to the bush fires that experiment. The feed-lot system is a revolu­ occur every year on the Cairns Range. The tionary trend. Before we destroy the beauti­ R.S.L. in Cairns took this matter up only ful timbers of the Tully area and so prevent recently. The bush fires sweep up the 858 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply mountain ranges and every year they burn reserves, and they are better housed. I farther into the valuable regenerating forests. am very glad to be able to say that in The Labour Party set the match and it my area much greater interest is being taken still goes on. We will have to do something in the welfare of the natives than ever sooner or later, and the sooner we do it before. the more timber will be preserved. As I said at the outset, I compliment the When I heard the other day of the opening Treasurer on the way in which he set out the of the Mourilyan Harbour sugar terminal Financial Statement. It has given us much I thought back to the days \£ben it was food for thought and a very clear idea of opposed over the years by the Labour Party. where we are going in the coming year. They would not grant it to the sugar industry. The little lighters would buzz in and take Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (5.37 on a load of sugar and sail up to Cairns p.m.): I should like to say this about the with it to the great advantage of Cairns. speech of the hon. member for Tablelands: The development of the harbour was never has so much been said by one member opposed by the Labour Party and by Labour about so many subjects that he knows noth­ members. The present hon. member who ing about. As the Leader of the Opposition represents Mourilyan stood alone against his said, the only subject about which the hon. colleagues and tried to get them to do some­ member did not speak was the Castro regime thing. But he failed miserably. He had in Cuba. I wonder whether he had seen the no chance. Then we came into power and report that Mr. McEwen was about to join the harbour was opened. We have heard it the Liberal Party before he praised him. said in the Chamber time and time again, The projects the hon. member mentioned "We want cheap sugar," "We want cheap -the Tully Falls scheme, the Barron Falls this," and "We want cheap that." The scheme, the Tinaroo Dam irrigation project, development of Mourilyan Harbour is one which feeds the Barron and provides the way in which the price of sugar has been power about which so much has been said kept down for the people of Queensland, this afternoon-were all begun by Labour and it is gratifying to me that the present Governments, and we are very proud of that. Government were responsible for it. The fact that the hon. member for Tablelands Again, in Townsville we see evidence of saw fit to praise them is another feather in the Government's desire to develop the the cap of the Australian Labour Party. country. We have gone in for education in the North in a big way. I am grateful Mr. Windsor: Which Labour Party did to the Government, and so are the electors that? of Tablelands, for the excellent high schools Mr. TUCKER: The hon. member heard that have been built there. Though the what I said. The Tinaroo irrigation scheme people of North Queensland generally do provides water for the tobacco-growing areas, not agree on the location of the university, and the tobacco crop will return-this is they are grateful for it. Education is going the figure given in today's paper-about ahead and, as we are so dependent on science £5,000,000 this year. The Country Party today, I am glad that the Government are bitterly opposed that scheme in this Chamber conscious of the need to make advanced when it was initiated. Let hon. members education available to everyone. opposite get round that. It gives me great pleasure to note the The Financial Statement has not brought extension of free hospitalisation facilities. cries of joy from the people in the North, Queensland was on the verge of losing its and, after hearing the speeches from the free hospitalisation_ scheme; the former Government benches, I should say that hon. Treasurer, the hon. member for Bundaberg, members on that side of the Chamber have gave more than one hint of that. Those been on the defensive. The catchcry was who were in the Parliament at the time that millions would be poured into Queens­ knew, and the Press gave it out, that he land, that the Government would create a would have to review the free hospitalisation climate for investment, that there would be scheme; it was common knowledge. Today an aura of prosperity in this State, and that the scheme has not merely been preserved; there would be more jobs than men to fill it has been expanded. Every person in them. They should say that in Townsville Queensland may rest assured that if he today! The Financial Statement shows, in becomes ill he will be able to receive the effect, that none of these things have come very best free hospital attention. to pass after this Government have been in The same Department administers native office for 3 t years. affairs. More houses have been built for The Treasurer tried to explain why he the natives and their design has been has budgeted for a deficit. He claimed that improved. Some of those houses we saw the recent margins increase and the drought at Normanton and Croydon were not very were responsible for the fact that for the comfortable, but the new style in Mareeba fourth year in succession there would be a and Georgetown-and I saw some in Mass­ deficit in Queensland. I go home nearly man-are very much better. Natives are every week-end, and as I travel to Townsville now taking their place in the work force of it is obvious how badly Queensland is in the nation. They are no longer confined to the grip of the present drought and how Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 859 great is the need for water conservation. We Evans, had something to say about Mr. can make Queensland a great State only when Murray and I quote from the "Townsville we become independent of the seasons. We Daily Bulletin" of 3 October, 1960- have abundant evidence before us of what "Mr. John Murray should be assisting drought can do-the Treasurer said that in the State Government in its efforts to presenting his Financial Statement-and each secure finance to build roads to the morning in this Chamber we hear a question Channel Country. designed to elicit the information that another "This was said today by the Minister area has been declared drought-striken. But for Development (Mr. E. Evans). He in spite of that the Treasurer has seen fit said Mr. Murray (Liberal member for to reduce the allocation to the Department Herbert in the House of Representatives), of Irrigation and Water Supply. Does that was 'running true to form' on contro­ mean that valuable staff will be lost? In versial political issues. the North we are particularly conscious of the big part that that department and the "Mr. Murray in the Federal House had Department of Agriculture and Stock have criticised the decision to build a road net­ played, and will play, in the future develop­ work to the Channel Country. ment of the northland. "Mr. Evans said: 'Mr. Murray's acrobatic Before I go any further I shall reply political feat in sliding off the Country Party to the attack launched against me last platform to become a Liberal immediately Thursday evening by the hon. member for he was elected to Federal Parliament is Townsville South. As hon. members oppo­ not forgotten.' site listened to his speech-a speech of low "He also said: 'It appears in this case quality-they must have felt very proud that he is more concerned with his own that they had failed to stand anyone against political hide than adopting a statesmanlike him in Townsville South, even though can­ attitude.' didates were ready and eager. It proves "Mr. Evans said Mr. Murray should be what we of the Australian Labour Party aware that Queensland had budgeted to have always maintained, that is, that the spend £693,000 this year and would con­ Liberal Party will shed its principles as tinue the various roads to complete the one would shed an old coat, if it is politically scheme. expedient so to do. "Queensland would do that, even if some Because of the hon. member's continued Queensland members would not assist to efforts to link me and my party with break down the discrimination that had Communism, which is what caused my first and still was operating against Queensland. clash with him in this Chamber-and will "Apparently, said Mr. Evans, Mr. Murray continue to if he persists in them-let us had forgotten that 200,000 head of cattle look at a few facts. Let us see what this had died during the drought in the Channel "Queen Street-Quisling," this would-be Country area. "Moscow-mauler" who draws his skirts "Mr. Evans said he would make available away lest he be contaminated each time to Mr. Murray reports by the Bureau of the word "Communism" is mentioned, this Agricultural Economics and by the State's living monument to "slobbering hypocrisy" own Development Director, (Mr. W. -I borrow the word from him, if I may­ Hansen).'' had to say in his first speech in Parliament. I quote from "Hansard," Vol. 182, page 76, Obviously that man is loved by Country when the hon. member said- Party members in this Government. "We bucked the machine. We have The hon. member for Townsville South shown that in the North the feeling is saw fit to refer to my family and to my growing. We collaborated with the fertility. I would venture to say that it would Communist Party. I told the Press that have been long ago-longer than he cares to last October, but the Premier told the remember-that he was relegated to the party that this story told by Aikens that realms of the "cunning consultant" prefacing there was going to be collaboration with all his statements with, "I mind the time the Communist Party in the north was when--" So much for the hon. member. 'hooey.' A man who was not known in If he continues to attack me he can expect the Kennedy polled over 2,000 votes. Ask attacks from me. Mr. Theodore, probably one of the most The subject of beef cattle-fattening is very balanced members in the House, the shock dear to the hearts of all Northerners but he got when his unknown opponent polled especially to those of the people of Towns­ thousands of votes against him. Ask ville, where seasonal work is now casuing Harry Bruce about the Tableland, and great worry to hundreds of workers and George Keyatta about Townsville." their families. A rather exciting experiment It is small wonder that he is known in is being carried out at Kalamia mill in the Townsville as "Two-bob-each-way Tom." fattening of cattle. The mill has a machine that can be driven into the standing cane The other week we had the extraordinary and that shreds it and feeds it into a large spectacle of his praising the present member holding basket. The shredded cane is fed for Herbert. The Minister for Development, to young beasts along with a measure of Mines, Main Roads and Electricity, Mr. crushed grain and meal and adulterated 860 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

molasses. The cattle are kept in areas about so, without his unwarranted and unfounded one chain by three chains in which there is attacks, based on information from a malcon­ water and shade, and they have made gains tent who sets himself up as an authority and of from 2t to 4 lb. a day. The first batch whose genuineness can be gauged from the of 21 was sold recently and it was claimed fact that he was prepared to sell his mates by butchers in Townsville who bought the down the river to a Tory. carcasses that the beef was of prime quality. These workers are justifiably discontented I do not know the exact cost of turning off with the failure of the Industrial Court to the beasts but everything at the moment grant wage increases to all railway men. Its points to its being quite economic. failure to grant wage justice while the tall Here is a way to turn off fat cattle immedi­ poppies of the Public Service and the ately, using the standover cane at the same judiciary count their increases in hundreds time. The grain could be grown on well­ and thousands is hard to swallow. The aver­ established farms in the Burdekin valley. age railway man finds it difficult to under­ There must be hundreds of farms in the stand why a small section enjoyed an Burdekin valley where this method could be increase and 20,000 of them received noth­ employed and I think the Government should ing. We can realise their discontent more inquire into it immediately and, if necessary, when we take into account that they have to purchase some of the machines I have men­ pay for everyday commodities the same price tioned. as those more fortunate ones who got a rise. It would not be necessary to wait for the The average railway man is certainly not lands to be exploited; the potential is already sour on his brother because he did get a there. The land is cleared and fertile. I rise, but he demands wage justice. mention the Burdekin valley specifically Mr. Houghton: Do you believe in because it has the type of climate in which arbitration? cattle thrive. If ever there is an area crying out for exploitation it is the Burdekin valley, Mr. TUCKER: Thousands of those whom and every Northerner should demand that the the hen. member for Condamine attacked Commonwealth Government make the build­ live and work under the most primitive con­ ing of the Burdekin Dam its next major ditions. Get away from that one. Small Australian project. Can we point to one bondwood huts in which they can barely major project in Queensland that was begun swing a cat are the places many of these men by the Commonwealth Government? The and their families ea]] home. Those on the answer is "No", and the crying shame of it small branch lines get their groceries once a is that not one of the Queensland members week, if they are lucky; their water is carried of the Commonwealth Government has raised to them in water gins and must be husbanded his voice in protest. like gold, and they have no refrigeration. To them living is always difficult, and in the Last week the hen. member for Condamine trying summer months in the North and saw fit in this Chamber to attack the railway North-west it is even more so. Statistics show workers. I refer hen. members to the follow­ that one fettler in every four suffers from ing passage of his speech in "Hansard" No. sun cancer. 7 at page 584- "Hon. members opposite may tear into These people-the hardest working people me as much as they like over the next in the railways-who live under primitive matter I raise. A railway man who was conditions, without any of the amenities of retired three years ago, after working for the city such as electricity, running water the department throughout his working and refrigeration, or entertainments such as life, told me that he has watched closely picture shows, football and other sports-in what is going on in the service. He spoke fact, all the amenities found in the more to me about the standards set and the favoured centres-received no increase. I amount of work each man is supposed to believe a ganger received an increase of 6d. do in a day. He told me that the number a week for the highly responsible position of employees of the department could be he holds. He is personally responsible for cut by a third, and that the remaining the maintenance of his length, and his employees, if they worked, would be able clerical duties include the recording of to do all the work done at the present materials received, including sleepers, keep­ time. That is the reason for increased ing a record of times worked by his gang, rail freights." including time lost and time engaged on I strongly defend those much maligned extraneous duties, and annual leave must workers and trade unionists, and say that the be recorded by him, too. hen. member would have been better advised There are at present four fettlers in a to stay on ground of which he has a good gang, including the ganger. Strangely enough knowledge. I listened with interest to his the history of the four-man gang goes back speech about the brigalow country and the 40 years to when the railways were using hardships of the small farmers and dairymen small "A" class and B15 engines, and when under the present Government, but my wear and tear on the permanent way was hackles really rose when he attacked the in no way comparable with that of today, railway men. Does not the hen. member with the introduction of 90-ton diesel engines, realise that all of the railway workers are heavy loads and increased speeds. Big loads seething with discontent already, and rightly of 900 to 1,000 tons are now hauled where Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 861

in the early times the maximum load was sent a special officer up there, and when he 150 tons. The terrific wear and tear on the reported that the men had right on their permanent way can be imagined, but side, their claims were granted. Why were repeated requests for an increase in gang their claims not granted in the first place? numbers have met with the same refusal. Why could not some conciliation have taken Fettling gangs, relaying gangs, bridge place on that occasion? It is typical of the gangs and flying gangs have all suffered as type of thing that is happening. a result of the increase in loads and speeds. Mr. Rae: They have never had a better Shunters work under extremely dangerous spin in their lives than they are getting from conditions. They work round the clock in this Government. three shifts and irrespective of the condition of the weather, be it a cyclone, rain, hail Mr. TUCKER: The present Minister is or snow, the shunter is expected to be on not earning the respect of the men or the duty at the appointed hour. Many insur­ unions by these tactics. ance companies will not insure them. Five Recently a Cabinet meeting was held in or six have lost their lives in Townsville in Townsville. Next morning the Minister for shunting operations in the last 25 Transport refused to meet a deputation from years, and numbers have been injured. the Combined Railway Unions to discuss Quite often in cyclonic or rainy weather the the many problems affecting the railways kerosene lights used by the shunters can and railwaymen. As they came down the hardly be kept alight. Theirs is a very steps of the Town Hall I was waiting to hazardous occupation and they, too, are hurt meet Mr. Muller, and one of the men who at the Court's decision. Cleaners, firemen came out was the Northern District Secre­ and guards in the lower wage bracket receive tary of the Australian Railways Union, nothing, either. Mr. E. P. O'Brien. As they came down, There is discontent, too, among the trades­ their faces were a study. I felt that the men-the fitters and turners in the iron and rebuff that was given to those men was woodwork section, the trades assistants and ill-considered. the loco. labourers. Mr. Bennett: What did they go to In the goods shed, porters, checkers and Townsville for? checkers-in-charge-all failed to receive increases arising out of the recent Court Mr. Windsor: This is not a Queen Street decision. Government. Although increases were recently granted Mr. TUCKER: I would say to the to drivers and guards, there is still discontent Minister that courtesy costs nothing. It among train men over the vexatious interpre­ is not the first time that has been said, tation given by the railway interpreter. and they are not my words, but they are The most vexatious interpretation is the quite true. If the Minister had adopted one governing crews held up along the roads a conciliatory attitude and met that depu­ by floods or derailments or for other causes. tation, even if he had not been able to For most of those delays the men are not promise them anything, he would have responsible, but trains are held up for five earned their respect, and I say that in all or six hours or more and their crews are sincerity. I think the Government will paid only waiting-time or half waiting-time realise very soon that it does not cost for the period of the hold-up. anything to be conciliatory to any man, no matter who he is or what he is, or how Again, with shunters, so bad had condi­ much you try to make out that is a Com­ tions become in the railway shunting yards munist or something of that sort. If at Townsville that shunters had to enforce you can meet a man and talk to him the rules and regulations to back their as man to man, at least he will go away demands for more engine-power and more with respect for you in his heart. When men. The department adopted a pig-headed one sees men walk down the steps of a attitude and held out on the men. Trains hall, their faces burning, having been were held up for long periods. So bad did rebuffed as these men were, one realises the position become that finally the Com­ why there is discontent in the railways, and missioner dispatched a special officer to inves­ I am sure that there is no more discontent tigate. That special officer is now the general anywhere than there is at Townsville. manager of the Northern Division in Towns­ ville, Mr. Dinsmore. He is a very capable Mr. Pizzey: When did they make up their and conscientious officer, highly respected by minds about this deputation? the men and by the union in Townsville. An Opposition Member: When you were When he went there at that time he spent hours in the shunting yard, day and night. out at Magnetic Island. Finally he reported that the shunters had Mr. Pizzey: Another of your lies. I was justice on their side and recommended that never there. I beg your pardon, Mr. Taylor their demands be granted, and they were. -another one of his untruths. Here again the men had to resort to drastic action before they obtained justice. That is Mr. TUCKER: I will answer that question why I said the department had adopted a through you, Mr. Taylor, if I may. It was pig-headed attitude. After holding out, it on the night of the civic reception that I 862 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

introduced a couple of these men to Mr. Government Members interjected. Chalk and asked that he see them and talk to them. It was there that they requested The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask hon. that he meet them next morning. His members to allow the hon. member to make answer was that if they were lucky they his speech. might meet him down the street. Mr. TUCKER: -- Mr. Pizzey: Too short notice for a deputation. The CHAIRMAN: Order! If the hon. member is going to continue his speech I ask Mr. TUCKER: I have arranged depu­ that he continue and not make these long tations at much shorter notice than that. pauses. I agree that a number of Ministers have been Mr. TUCKER: Despite the protestations very considerate, but I could not say the of hon. members opposite the 40-hour week same of the Minister for Transport. is working well, except in those cases where In his speech, the hon. member for graziers are deliberately making it difficult, Condamine attacked the railway men and or appear difficult, in an endeavour to also referred in derogatory terms to the sabotage it. I must in all fairness declare 40-hour week in the pastoral industry. that a large majority of graziers are co-opera­ I quote from "Hansard" for 11 October, tive, and making it work well. However, 1960, at page 582- when I hear statements like the one I just "Mr. SULLIVAN: That is an interest­ quoted, I consider that they are made for ing point. How many holidays do we give the benefit of the three-man committee set them? Go out into the western areas where up by the Minister for Labour and Industry they are working 40 hours a week. Under to make recommendations for amendments the old system, if there was a rodeo on to the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration for two or three days the boss said, Act. Hon. members will remember that in 'Righto, boys, we will go to town and have accordance with their alleged scrupulous fair­ the week-end off.' " ness in these matters the Government took care to exclude union representatives from How magnanimous! They would have a that committee. Anyway, it is my opinion week-end off! that these people hope for an amendment "Mr. Beardmore: And they got paid for to provide that the court may decide what it. too.'' hours shall be worked. Of course, they hope "Mr. SULLIVAN: Of course they got by insidious propaganda to prevail on the paid for it. With the coming of the 40- court to vary the hours. hour week those things are all gone." I turn now to something for which a num­ I do not know how he works that one out. btlr of my colleagues and I were urging for many years before I became a member of "If you have a yarn to the fellows Parliament-country housing for public ser­ employed out in the western grazing areas vants. In the State Public Service the Gov­ and ask them whether they are better off ernment have the most efficient and capable under the 40-hour week than previously, men in Australia. Despite the fashionable when relations were better between jokes that go the rounds, public servants employer and employee, you will find that work much harder than their counterparts in none of them are abiding by the rules of private enterprise. I make no apology for the 40-hour week." that statement. Indeed, I can name any It was the A.W.U. that was responsible for number of men who, since the war, have the restriction of hours in the pastoral indus­ been working under a strain that no man try. It was that union that insisted that should be called upon to bear. the Act include a restriction on hours, and Without detracting in any way from the the court had no option but to grant it. ability and loyalty of other members of the Because of that, cooks and workers around Public Service. I should say that the staff of the homesteads now enjoy a 40-hour week the Titles Office-southern, central and spread over six days. Outside workers like northern, from the Registrar, Mr. Thomson. ringers enjoy a 44-hour week spread over who is now almost at the end of a long and the same period. Any hours in excess of able career, to the youngest office lad-take that attract overtime rates. Overtime is the second place to none for efficiency. crux of the matter; that is what raises the squeal from Government benches. Perhaps In the course of their service many public they would like to go back to the old times servants move round this vast State, firstly when men worked 60 and more hours a as juniors and finally as senior administra­ week. They worked from the crack of dawn tors, keeping up the efficiency of the Ser­ until well after sunset. vice. Time and time again their families are uprooted, their children have to change Mr. Windsor: What is your authority for schools, friends are left behind, homes are that? sold, and they move into an unknown city Mr. TUCKER: The hon. member asks for or town where conditions may not be com­ my authority. I remember the whole sorry parable with those they left behind. I take business when I was a child. If anyone here my hat off to the wives who go along with says that it did not happen I say that they their men to make their homes in a new are straying from the truth. environment. Supply [20 OCTOBER} Supply 863

However, as if that were not enough Finally, the hon. member for Townsville another bogy since the war has been finding South claimed last Thursday evening that a home at the new destination. The prices of I had made myself unpopular with the comparable homes can vary by up to £1,000 Government. My people did not send me from city to city and town to town. Hon. down here to play ring-a-rosy with the members can imagine the feelings of a man Country-Liberal Government. I believe it selling out in a cheap area and going to a is the job of the Opposition to keep the dear one. The same remarks apply to administration on their toes. I will voice rentals. In Townsville in particular the the complaints of my people without fear of housing shortage is acute and consequently the consequences. If that makes me unpopu­ rentals are very high. A public servant finds lar with the Government it will be a sign himself accepting a country promotion with that I am doing my duty. a rise of, say, £30 for the first year and an increased rental of perhaps £3 a week, Mr. HUGHES (Kurilpa) (7.36 p.m.): I with the result that he may be £2 10s. a have perused the Estimates and have made week out of pocket. a detailed analysis of it. Apart altogether from the astronomical figures it contains, It behoves the Government to look into it is a most impressive document and sets the housing of country public servants and out in very clear manner the way in which remove anxiety from their minds by building the Government are budgeting for the works or acquiring homes for them in country and services of the State. Some hon. districts. This would ensure, especially in members have complained that no detailed the country districts of the West, that study of the requirements of the State has families of public servants would have at been made and that the Budget does not least some amenities. cover the expenditure required in Queensland with its developmental growing-pains. There While speaking about public servants, I is no doubt that in the future, as in the mention those men who, having given almost past, with natural increase in population a lifetime of service in the country and and development of resources, Queensland having been prepared to take every promo­ will require an ever-increasing amount of tion as it came, find themselves passed over money from the Commonwealth Govern­ when the top jobs in Brisbane become vacant. I should not say that that happens every ment. time. I know that some departmental heads l\1r. Davies: You are more optimistic than are scrupulously fair, but there are others the Treasurer. who are obviously influenced by the proximity of the men working under them Mr HUGHES: I will deal fully with that in Brisbane. In addition to that, a Brisbane aspect as I proceed. man has a chance to relieve in the higher position and then claim greater efficiency. From hon. members opposite we have These outside men cannot do that. heard nothing but tongue-in-cheek statements about expenditure, and to some extent they In the instance I have in mind a man have suggested Queensland is going back­ worked his way through a department with wards because its revenue is not spent in a number of years of country service, and proper directions. Having made a detailed became the manager of a large Townsville studv of the Estimates, I challenge such office. He could hardly, by any stretch of state"'ments. We find that the estimated imagination, be declared inefficient or he would not have been appointed to that expenditure for the Department of Health managership. However, when a Brisbane and Home Affairs is £18,074,375, approxi­ position to which he was entitled by senior­ mately £2,000,000 more than for last year. ity became vacant recently, he was passed That has been the trend since this Govern­ over to the advantage of a Brisbane man. ment took office, although it is very signifi­ His only method of retrieving the position cant to note that under Labour Governments now is by way of appeal. That is wrong. expenditure on the health and welfare of the people was almost stationary. Since An Opposition Member: Was there any the present Government assumed office the politics in that one? annual expenditure in this direction has increased by about £2,000,000 a year. Mr. TUCKER: It is wrong that he should have to resort to a costly and unnerving Mr. Hanlon interjected. appeal when he was morally entitled to the position. Rumour has it that there cer­ Mr. HUGHES: The hon. member has tainly was politics in it. My opinion is had time to study the document and should that, all things being equal, the man who base his submissions on facts. In this is prepared to go into the country should direction alone the Government have proved receive favourable treatment and seniority they are providing for the welfare of the should be jealously guarded. I believe the people to a far greater extent than Labour present Government are steadily whittling Governments when they were in office. that condition away. If it continues the Public Service will become the rat race of Mr. Bennett: They didn't do much for the commercial world. the Brisbane City Council. 864 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. HUGHES: The hon. member should document. Queensland's developmental needs know about that. He left no trail of glory and problems and its expansion are restricted in that sphere. I should think he would do not by the vision of the policy of the well to listen in silence. Ministers and the members of the Govern­ The estimated expenditure by the Depart­ ment-there are many members who take a ment of Public Works again shows an practical and genuine interest in the welfare increase over the expenditure last year-a of the State-but by the very limited financial very significant amount. Again, the esti­ resources available. mated expenditure by the Department of Mr. Davies: Whose fault is that? Labour and Industry shows an increase over last year's. I shall deal with that at greater Mr. HUGHES: If the hon. member curbs length in my speech when I refer to the his impatience he will learn something from Department of Education. this speech. We notice the same pattern of stagnation I express a sincere desire that the Govern­ through the years set by Labour adminis­ ment should accelerate the rate of progress tration in this State. The figures tell the and expansion in this State; all Government story. The Government are providing as members do. I believe that only through they recognise the need and their duty to the grant of sufficient money from Common­ the welfare of the people of the State and wealth sources can we achieve a rate of the children. There is provision for a expansion that will pacify the people of £2,800,000 increase in Expenditure on Queensland and satisfy in particular the education this year. That is very significant Country-Liberal Party Government. because in Queensland we are proud that there is some virility of Government and a Queensland must progress, especially in the proper recognition of the needs of the com­ fields of manufacturing and other industries. munity. These two departments alone-the I suggest that the Commonwealth should heed Department of Health and Home Affairs and the plea of hon. members of this Assembly and make funds available for a project in th~ Department of Education-show a significant increase in the allofgtion under Queensland, whether it be an irrigation pro­ the Budget. To compile the Budget to give ject or some other type, but certainly a pro­ the increases that are shown in almost every ject in some form that will aid the establish­ departmental vote, including Irrigation, ment of industry. I think the suggestion has great merit and deserves detailed considera­ Labour and Industry and right through the tion. In fact, all the factors that have brought Budget, the Treasurer has had his share of about the present condition of the financial headaches and burden on the type and form structure of the State's economy should be of expenditure, to relate it to the revenue carefully examined. During my research into and income that the State receives. this matter, I took many notes and some of I say that because I will be dealing in those I made from the utterances of the some detail with the amount of revenue Treasurer bear repeating. He said that the that the State receives from the Common­ Commonwealth Constitution, whilst vesting wealth by way of reimbursement and the the customs and excise power exclusively in fact that there is a very noticeable lack the Commonwealth-and that goes back to of grant from the Commonwealth to the Federation-envisaged a sharing by the States State for any project that will assist not in those revenues. He added that the device only the economy of the State, but its of transferring Commonwealth surpluses to further progress and expansion. I can see trust funds has completely frustrated what evidence of the financial wizardry of the was a clear intention under the Constitution. Treasurer and of his outstanding ability in the figure picture that is presented Now is a good time to consider the sections throughout the Estimates. They evidence to of the Constitution dealing with these this Committee that not only can the matters,-that is, customs and excise duties Country-Liberal Parties govern this State, but oassed to the Commonwealth-in particular, they can govern it wisely and well and in Sections 86 and 87. Section 87 provides that the general interests of the people and their the balance of such revenue in excess of 25 welfare in every section of the community. per cent. shall be passed to the States. In 1957-1958 Commonwealth revenue from I could speak for hours on the legacy of customs and excise was £304,364,644. debt and hardship left to this Government Queensland received, by way of reimburse­ by their predecessors, but I prefer to take ment, £1,727,231, or £1 4s. 7d. per head ?f a far more objective view and look to the population as against £2 17s. Id. per head m future, because we must look to the future 1900. So, while we have received a greater for the benefit of the economy of the State. sum than in those days, thanks to increased In particular, we must have courage as population, we have received less per capita administrators and leave something to those than in 1900; we received only £1,000,000 who follow us that will be their heritage, out of the £304,000,000 collected. so that they may say of this Government, "Not only did they have courage; they had I relate these facts to Queensland's urgent vision to leave us something worth while need for expansion and development. I from which we are now benefiting." That repeat that Queensland has its growing pains. is the general theme running through this The State for a long time stagnated under a Supply [20 0CTOBERj Supply 865

Labour administration which had· become that the Treasurer is fearless in his presenta­ inept and lazy. So many things were taken tion of facts. His courage is to be corn­ for granted and allowed to continue as they mended. On all occasions he puts Queens­ were. land first and politics second, and it is the bounden duty of every hon. member in this In 1957 this Government took office with Chamber to do the same. The entreaties put a vigour unknown in the administrative life forward by hon. members will not only be of the State for so many years and there heeded by the Federal Government but will was a very noticeable change. It was like a also be given effect to in the future. clean, fresh, spring breeze on a hot summer day. The moment the Country-Liberal I do not wish my remarks to be construed Government took office, they assessed the as a personal attack on members of the Fed­ State's needs and made a drive to meet the eral Parliament, because I deplore public people's requirements in works and services, face-slapping and wrangling by men promin­ and in particular they made a detailed study ent in public life; I do not think it will of industry. I will outline some of their achieve anything. But I believe that this considerations as I proceed. Assembly should put before the Common­ wealth Government and the public imparti­ Mr. Bromley: Name one project that this ally and dispassionately the facts as we see Government have started. them, and we expect that our requests, if Mr. HUGHES: I will name several major treated in the same impartial way, will result projects, if the hon. member will be patient. in additional grants and revenue from the With the development that is now taking Commonwealth. place. and development that is proposed for Mr. Davies: The Treasurer and the Minis­ the future, there are many ways in which ter for Public Lands spoke very strongly the Commonwealth Government can help about that. Queensland, just as they have gone to the aid of southern States. Even though many Mr. HUGHES: As I have already said, Votes have been increased for the year 1960- we in this Government-! say this unequivo­ 1961. we need further money for health ser­ cally-are dictated to by no outside source. vices. homes to meet the needs of an increas­ We receive no instructions, and we speak ing population, and a system of roads to fearlessly and as we conscientiously believe cope with the modern phenomenon of road transport. I think one in every 3.7 people we should in the interests of Queensland. I in Queensland owns a motor vehicle, which certainly do not get any instructions from proves that it is a motoring age. We need the Trades Hall, as some hon. members do. more expenditure on irrigation, education, A considerable portion of the differential and the establishment of new industries. represents the added interest burden, so to In Volume 224 of "Hansard", page 316, that extent the argument that the rest of Aus­ the Treasurer said- tralia is being called upon to subsidise capital "In the revised formula of income tax development in South Australia is an endur­ reimbursements which was adopted in June ing feature of our national finance. of this year, the South Australian base The Commonwealth Government are able entitlement is £30 4s. 2d. per capita in to carry out the bulk of their capital works comparison with Queensland's £25 2s. 3d. out of revenue before initially measuring their per capita." surplus. Having then disposed of their sur­ This morning I asked a question of the Treas­ plus by the device of transfer, they lend the urer, and his reply was very enlightening. bulk of it to the States at interest. There He said that the figure for Queensland was are many figures that I could quote but now £26 per head of population. again I ask hon. members to accept the figures of the Treasurer and other speakers before Mr. Hanlon: What is it in South Aus­ me. I speak for towns and cities in all tralia? parts of the State when I say that we do Mr. HUGHES: The Queensland figure is not seek charity; we seek only adequate £26 16s. 4d., and it is fourth on the list. revenues as of our right. At the moment The figure for South Australia is £32 1s. 6d. I do not think we get them. I think The average for all States is £25 19s. 11d., it is morally wrong and strategically stupid so Queensland is just a point or two above to concentrate capital and expenditure the average. As South Australia and other in the South. For far too long that has southern States have received grants from been not only the Federal Government revenue, I believe that Queensland is entitled attitude but also the attitude of mind of the to the same treatment. people in the South. I do not want to start a States war but I do believe that the people Mr. Burrows: Your Government made a in the South must be mindful that there are claim that if they were returned to office they avaricious eyes to the north of Queensland, would be more favourably treated by the and they are looking south. We certainly do Federal Government. not want Queensland-a State vast in area, sparsely inhabited, a State that is crying out Mr. HUGHES: Hon. members opposite for development-not receiving as of right its should forget their political bias and admit share of revenue for its proper development. 1960-2E ~) 866 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I could cite instances where in the South Mr. Davies: Do you agree with what grants from revenue were made for develop­ Senator Wood said? mental works. The Commonwealth Govern­ Mr. HUGHES: I have already said that I ment made a free grant of 70 per cent. of will not deal with inane interjections. For the cost of railway rebuilding in southern the Snowy Mountains hydro-electric power States and provided the remaining 30 per scheme and the standardisation of the Albury cent. as a loan. They also made a grant to Melbourne railway line, the total payments from the Commonwealth Sinking Fund for from Commonwealth Consolidated Revenue mining development at Radium Hill. Fund are £132,102,990. In South Australia Mr. Davies: How many years have they the Stirling North-Brachina-Leigh Creek­ to repay the loan? Maree railway and the standardisation of South Australian railways have taken Mr. HUGHES: I am not going into details; £17,485,909. In Western Australia, Western I am merely citing cases. South Australia was Australia Waterworks and the development granted concessions assessed at nearly of North-western Australia cost £3,977,267. £750,000 on the Leigh Creek railway. In Tasmania, for the Australian Aluminium In recent years Queensland has made a Production Commission, £9,499,850; in notable contribution to the development of Queensland not an ounce of copper, not a the southern States. Again I quote the solitary £1. Queensland has a blank sheet. Treasurer's speech from "Hansard" of 16 September 1959- That is the basis of my argument. Queens­ land makes a valuable contribution to the "At the Australian Loan Council in economy of this country; Queenslanders pay June last, the Works and Housing pro­ a tremendous amount in excise and customs gramme agree? to was £220,000,000. duties and towards revenue generally and, as Queensland's snare of this amount is a right, they should receive something back £22,750,000 for Works and £3,480,000 for from the Commonwealth by way of grants. Housing making £26,230,000 in all." As I have read from this document, we are From this detailed study of the capital works not getting our rights. and services from the Commonwealth Con­ Mr. HUGHES: I shall further quote solidated Revenue Fund-a most startling figures showing that Queensland should document-it will no doubt be understood receive consideration in other ways but that why I urge that every hon. member of the such consideration has been noticeably lack­ Committee, in a complete, courageous and sin­ ing in the past. The figures deal with Com­ cere manner, use his resources and entreaties monwealth Government expenditure on relief. to convince those in authority in the Com­ I shall deal only with the most recent review. monwealth Government to see that Queens­ For flood relief, bush-fire relief, cyclone relief land, with its crying need for develonment, and storm-damage relief in the 1953-1954 gets of right its share of revenue for its period other States got £132,483 whilst proper development. Queensland got nothing; for 1954-1955 other Mr. Donald: Don't you think the present States got £598,491; Queensland got only Queensland representatives look after £1,804. Queensland's interests? That is the general pattern. Queensland has Mr. HUGHES: I am putting this argument received an infinitesimal amount of the total objectively and on a high plane. grants by the Commonwealth to the States for developmental works. Mr. Hanlon: The basic reason is that there are only three members against the Govern­ I hope that in the immediate future those ment sent from Queensland and 15 for the in authority will review the situation and Government. That is why the Common­ come to the conclusion that in the interests wealth ignore us completely. of Australia they have a moral obligation to provide funds for a major project in Queens­ Mr. HUGHES: I admit what the hon. land. We have to discard the notion that member says could appear on the surface we are able to hold our population through to have some substance, but I suggest that, two factors-free hospitalisation and a low to get the message across to those in cost of living-although I am of the firm authority in the Federal Parliament, it should conviction that they have been major factors not be a matter of playing politics or one in the past. Queenslanders suffer through State against another. Surely Queensland is acts of God in the form of floods and entitled to a fair share of the available drought. In the tropics we have to contend moneys and so recognise the need of those with the climate, flies, heat an.d other dis­ in authority and be big enough to see advantages. On the other hand the State that Queensland, marching to progress has tremendous potential. Apart from fore­ and prosperity, is growing up. One should thought, courage, downright common sense hope that they would recognise our and virility of government, Queensland needs growing pains and look at it in a broad financial assistance if it is to be developed. Australian manner, if for no other reason In times of emergency Queensland would be than that it would be Australia's finest and a bastion in the defence of the Common­ best defence measure. wealth, but to be effective in that role it Supply (20 OCTOBER] Supply 867 must have increased population, which in its In 1957 new registrations for companies train would bring a higher standard of living in the State were 819. In 1958 they were and a sounder economy. But to get increased 1,198, in 1959 they were 1,604; for the six population we must do more than rely on months ending 30 June this year they were the free hospital policy, to which the Govern­ 1,016, and in the last three months they were ment are pledged, and a low cost of living. 417. Hon. members will see here again the pattern of progress of development and the Mr. Hanlon: That is one of your difficulties virility and sincerity of the Government. with the Grants Commission. If you go to They will see a jump from 819 in 1957 to the Grants Commission it will probably tell 1,100 and 1,600, and in half a year to over you to "wipe" free hospitalisation as has been 1,000. They will see the general pattern of done in the other States. progress and development of industry in the !VIr. HUGHES: It is a tradition in Queens­ State. Those figures do not include firms land, and the Government are pledged to or private businesses; they cover only maintain it. They will never sell out on registered companies. There have been a that policy merely to get a few paltry pounds. few closures, the average being about six to 12 a month. Many of the closures have Development in the be·ef and other primary been of companies that have been registered industries is desirable, but in itself is not for convenience. I mentioned the other day sufficient. Developmental projects must be the Collier-Garland fiasco. Some of them undertaken and secondary industries must could not be described basically as of benefit be encouraged. During the recent drought to the State. A few that are not of benefit we imported butter from the south, which to the State are closing down, and a few proves conclusively that Queensland's television retail outfits are closing down. economy, both now and in the future, must There are those few closures, but the general not be based solely on primary industries. average increase is such as to represent a The accent today should be on industrial remarkable achievement by the Minister in expansion, and I hope the Commonwealth his drive to obtain industry for the State. Government will heed our plea to provide Industry means employment and _e_mployment additional financial assistance for the expan­ means a generally increased purchasing sion of industry. The Government are power throughout the whole community and tackling the task vigorously within the limits a soundness of the State's economy. of their financial resources. We need special assistance to deal with unemployment and Mr. Windsor: A higher standard of living. decentralisation of industry. We should strive for a harmonious relatiQnship with Mr. HUGHES: Yes, certainly. the Federal Government and try to get them Queensland is still the best State to live to recognise our requirements. in. If hon. members want to "knock" that, Mr. Davies: Are any of your Federal they may go ahead. It seems to be the general members giving any support to your ideas? pattern of members of the Opposition to be "i:nockers," particularly on industry. I hope Mr. HUGHES: Queensland Liberal Party they will keep their minds on a higher plane members in the Federal sphere are as con­ and do everything possible to espouse the cerned as I am about this matter, and they virtues of Queensland and assist in the have expressed their concern to me. They development of industry in this State. share my views and I hope that their efforts By way of a question the other day the will culminate in fruition. hon. member for Townsville South asked for There is industrial expansion both in the details of new industries and increased popu­ city and throughout the State. I have heard lation. The Minister for Labour and Industry so much, particularly from members of the replied- Opposition, when they have been decrying "! would point out that since April any suggestion that we should build up the of this year my department has industrial and manufacturing strength of the sponsored 16 industries for land at State. Every time the Minister for Labour Garbutt with the Land Administration and Industry espouses some project or pro­ Commission." posal it is immediately laughed at by mem­ bers of the Opposition. There should be a There is proof positive in one location only higher plane of thinking than political of the accent being not on industries for the hypocrisy. The development of the economy cities only. This is not Queen Street Govern­ of the State should be above those things. ment. This is an inducement to industry to expand its resources through the whole of Mr. Davies: We support any sincere move the State and thereby is of benefit to areas to develop the State. generally in cushioning as far is possible, unemployment-which is related to the Mr. HUGHES: The reasons advanced by financial condition of the State-in the sugar hon. members opposite when the Minister industry and other primaty-producing for Labour and Industry was telling us of industries; in fact, every industry affected the cement works in North Queensland, and through seasonal conditions and changes. his sincere outlay of energy to entice to this State a £15,000,000 oil refinery, certainly I admire the Minister for the work he has thrnw back the lie direct to the interjectors. done and is doing in his capacity and for the 868 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

sincerity and drive he has shown. I know Let me give him and you, Mr. Taylor, that his diligence must be recognised sooner the lie direct. Certainly there is an or later even by hon. members opposite, aurora of investment and a climate for safe becaus·e the State's position today is so much investment here now and it is having an sounder than it was a few years ago. How­ effect throughout the State. ever, much remains to be done. In this morning's "Courier-Mail" under the Let me draw the attention of the Com­ heading, "Tips Us as Big Centre" appeared mittee to one or two ways in which the State this repon- is expanding. Whether hon. members "The centre of gravity of Australia's opposite want to recognise it or not, the facts industrial potential was swinging north­ are as plain as can be. In authorised and wards from Sydney and Melbourne as recognised reports that do not bear contra­ Queensland became more developed. diction it is stated that Central Queensland is to have a £1,000,000 cement works. The "The United Kingdom Trade Commis­ Minister said that immediately the first sioner in New South Wales (Mr. N. L. stage of the plant was operating the Hibbs) said this in Murwillumbah yester­ company would begin construction of day." a large-scale cement works. Efforts are He said he would recommend Queensland to being made at Port Alma to have British investors as a rapidly developing a £15,000,000 oil refinery established. State. He is a man with a tremendous know­ The efforts and diligence of the pres·ent ledge and a wealth of factual information, a Government in enticing industry to Queens­ man from within the Labour-governed State land are among the soundest moves ever of New South Wales. Surely hon. members made by any Government. They are tackling opposite will not dare to suggest that he dues something in which there was a back lag; not know what he is talking about, yet he more than that, the State suffered a loss of recommends Queensland as a State with a prestige in the South. I venture to suggest tremendous future. that during the days of stagnation under Labour there was the feeling right through­ I will prove my point further by quoting out the industrial community of Australia, the value of exports. "Do not invest in Queensland. You cannot Mr. Donald: A lot of talk! trust that State. For one thing, you do not know whether the industry will be socialised." Mr. HUGHES: This is more than talk. (Opposition laughter.) That is part of the Hon. members opposite would do well to platform of hon. members opposite. I suggest travel round the State instead of seat-warming that Mr. Egerton could do irreparable at Parliament House. If they examine the harm to Queensland in his spoken figures of exports for the three months ended words. However, industrialists know that March, 1959 and 1960, they will find an they can trust the present Govern­ increase for yarns and piecegoods and textiles ment and that they can invest here of about £300,000-from £763,000 to over not merely with a great degree of safety but £1,024,000. That is the increase in exports with real hope that the future will bring to other States, and the increase in overseas their investments fit and proper reward. exports is 200 per cent. There are further Mr. Davies: How is it that there are fewer examples here showing how Queensland is factories in Maryborough and in six of the progressing by means of industrial expansion largest towns on the coast now than there and a sound economy-machines and were in 1957? How do you explain that? machinery £1,360,000, compared with £829,000; other metal manufactures £993,000, Opposition Members interjected. compared with £557,000; and rubber manu­ factures are up, and so are leather and Mr. HUGHES: I hear a number of inter­ leather manufactures. jectors on my right and all they are doing is deriding and "knocking" the Minister in I could go on and on, but I think I have his efforts. Those who believe in Labour's given sufficient evidence to disprove this snide line of thought are "knocking" on all sides. innuendo that comes persistently from the They will not give credit where credit is due. Opposition benches. If it is so much against However, it can be said without fear of their imbued political beliefs to give any contradiction that the efforts of this Govern­ semblance of credit to this Government for ment to foster industry in Queensland are what they have done, at least let them be one of the soundest economic moves that good enough Queenslanders and Australians have been made in the last half century. not to "knock" something that is being done for the benefit of the future citizens of this Mr. Davies: Read your newspapers! State. Mr. HUGHES: I will read newspaper Mr. Davies: You are doing so we!! that reports to the hon. member. When the hon. you don't need any money! member for Townsville North was speaking he derided the Government for claiming that Mr. HUGHES: Of course we are doing they would create a climate for investment well. But because a working man might be and an aurora of investment. Again that was able to get bread and dripping for breakfast, derision. He was "knocking" the State. in the language of hon. members opposite Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 869 he is doing well. In our opmwn he, and Mr. HUGHES: I am glad tb_e.t the hon. every other Queenslander, is entitled to noth­ member for Cook supports me. ing but the best. I could cite what has happened with the Although we are doing much to promote il!dustrial estates scheme in Scotland, but expansion, there is still a tremendous amount time does not permit me. Suffice it is to say to be done. Let us look well into the future that when war broke out there were only and lay solid foundations for that expansion four industrial estates in Scotland. Today now. There is a great need for new factories there are 21, with 360 tenants and 40 and the industrial estates that have done so industrial factories. much for Northern Ireland, Nova Scotia Scotland, and other countries throughout the Many of the goods that we receive in world. There is a great and ever-pressing Queensland are made in the industrial estates need for Commonwealth grants to enable us in Scotland. I will not mention brand names. to set up these industrial estates. In Northern but typewriters, accounting machines, cash Ireland a tremendous amount of assistance is registers and shavers come from there. given to their establishment. It is not just a Let me touch on the subject of education. matter of words being bandied about; money The accent is on education throughout the is expended. Under the Capital Grants to State. It is the day of "Give the boy a Industry Acts, 1954 to 1959, the Govern­ chance." That is borne out by the increase ment of Northern Ireland will grant 33t per of millions of pounds in the Vote for the cent. to new undertakings for new buildings Department of Education. As I say the and new and second-hand plant and mach­ Government are placing the accent on inery they have purchased, and to assist them education. Present-day commercial, indus­ to re-equip and modernise their plant. They trial, manufacturing and communication paid out £6,500,000 last year. At one time methods are very complex, and they are Northern Ireland had a very bad unemploy­ marked by rapid changes. This is the ment problem and paid out large sums of machine age. I am concerned about school money in unemployment relief. They have pupils and their ability to understand and overcome that problem by means of these master old and new concepts. The horse­ industrial estate schemes and they are now an and-buggy days, the days of the pick and exporting nation. They get their raw mater­ ials from Britain, and although they export shovel, the days of strong fingers and backs, to Great Britain and pay tax both ways, they are gone. can still sell their products. They have This is the space age, the electronic age. removed the threat of unemployment and The new age presents new problems in have added tremendously to the revenue of education. There is a legitimate claim on the country. Men in Northern Ireland now the individual to carry out responsibility and have security in their jobs, a thing that all use his powers to preserve democracy and workers look for. to enhance its prosperity and material wel­ They also provide the industries with fare. The duty of educators is to make the industrial coal and make grants for elec­ most of everybody who seeks an education, tricity. Last year they paid out £750,000 for whether he be gifted or merely average. I these things. Under the Industries Develop­ take the view that it is necessary to cultivate ment Acts of Northern Ireland, they encour­ everyone's talents to the utmost so that we age new industrial expansion and under­ have at all levels the greatest possible fund takings. As I said, they make their assistance of ability, skill and understanding on which so attractive that it is possible for a manu­ to draw. Gifted children come from both facturing business or industry to become humble and well-endowed homes. Individuals established in Northern Ireland with the use differ to a marked degree in the capacities of buildings and land at almost no cost. They called for an education. Rates of learning, get a 33t per cent. grant to help them. rapidity of comprehension of printed material Queensland has a justifiable claim on the and ability to handle abstract concepts after Federal Government for assistance to the mastering them, are fundamental abilities extent that we are able to provide a similar required in education. But they differ from service, to give the incentive to decentralise one individual to another, or for each industry for the general good of all. It is not individual they differ somewhat from one field a matter of politics but a properly planned of study to the next. expansion in which the Commonwealth should assist. Time will not permit me to say all I should like to on this matter. At present we expect I think that they should go further. They children to attain mastery by uniform ways should help in the industrial development in a uniform time. That is a questionable of Queensland to the extent of allowing tax practice. We have in our primary schools concessions to new industries, particularly in a system of funnelling children through their the North and the West. They should courses in a certain time. We must seriously ;:>ermit profits to be ploughed back for a consider what is the irreducible degree of given period of time on a tax-free basis. skill that all pupils should have as part of That would give an incentive. their mental equipment, and more particu­ larly the significance of the much discussed Mr. Adair: That would help. Scholarship examination. 870 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I canvass the suggestion that we should are £7,000 short. That amount cannot be seriously question the existing practice of obtained. It can be borrowed at 12 per cent. requiring children of tender years to submit interest, but that is simply usury. What a en masse to particular examinations at par­ dreadful position! I think the Government ticular times and ask whether the important could assist tremendously by providing point at stake would not be that a child interest-free loans for non-State schools. should proceed at his own pace, mastering Mr. Hanlon: Don't you think it should be his schooling as he goes along and sitting taken up with the Federal Government, for his examinations when he is assured of because they are doing it in the Federal success, rather than that he should be con­ Capital Territory. sidered a failure if he does not do it in a certain time, more particularly en masse and Mr. HUGHES: It is being done in the in strange circumstances and surroundings. South. The policy has great virtues, and I believe that the practice of cramming there is a need in Queensland for similar and channelling instruction through a bottle­ assistance. Let us consider the matter with neck leads to mental anguish, torment and tolerance and without bias. nervous tension in the very young, although (Time expired.) at present I believe the Scholarship examina­ tion should continue. I am not advocating Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (8.36 p.m.): I dispensing with that examination because of have listened with interest to the debate. I incentive and the setting of a standard, but should have thought some Government I think it should be a standard for which members would have spoken more forcefully children are properly prepared and for which in support of the Treasurer. It was apparent, they can enter with confidence. as it was in the Address-in-Reply debate, that they realise heavy weather is ahead. After I believe we should rather reorganise the being in office for three years they are present system to suit modern needs and beginning to realise the magnitude of their conduct the Scholarship examination in the task, and are not displaying the vim, vigour school classes within each separate school. I and enthusiasm they showed when they took should like to be able to speak on this sub­ over the Government benches three years ject much more fully but time does not ago. Although they are in only their second permit. term of office, they are always bringing up I believe that, where so many children are the past. That is a sorry state of affairs. desirous of an education today, there has Mr. Smith: You do not agree with your been what could be called a "tidal wave" of party's old cry about the Moore Government. students. This highlights the financial sacri­ fice of thousands of parents in keeping their Mr. NEWTON: We have to plan for the children at secondary school. In this regard present and the future. Whether the Govern­ I advocate increasing the Scholarship allow­ ment are a Labour Government or a ance in order to assist particularly those in Country-Liberal Government, their task is to the low income groups. A tremendous cater for the annual increase in population amount of good could be done in this way. and its demands, and the requirements of a The general sentiment in the community is modern society. After studying the Budget I that parents want their sons and daughters to should say the outlook for Queensland is not attain a higher position than they had them­ good. The going in the next 12 months will selves. I commend their self-sacrifice. The be heavy, and the picture may not be any assistance that would be afforded them by an better when the next Budget is presented. It increase in the Scholarship allowance would is quite evident that the Treasurer, with the pay dividends later on because these boys and limited funds available to him, is trying to girls are the future leaders of commerce. I cater for all the requirements of the State. put forward the suggestion that we should We dealt with this subject during the recent increase the Scholarship allowance. election campaign. We saw the gloomy The Government are spending millions of outlook ahead of us and attacked the Gov­ pounds on education, and so are the non­ ernment on their financial policy. The going State schools. I should like to cite a case for the Government during the last six that I think warrants consideration. In months, and even before they faced the doing so, I put forward the suggestion that people, was very heavy, as indicated by non-State schools could be assisted to the dismissals in various Government depart­ extent of making interest-free loans available ments-not mass dismissals, I agree, but to them to enable them to house their pupils dismissals from time to time. adequately and build schoolrooms. Mr. Pizzey: They were all casuals. Mr. Ewan: We are subsidising them now, Mr. NEWTON: They were not. you know. Mr. Pizzey: Your Government always did Mr. HUGHES: I am suggesting interest­ the same thing. free loans. I instance the case of St. Francis' Convent at West End, where £22,000 is Mr. NEWTON: They were not casuals. In needed to provide classrooms. They have some of the departments the dismissals were been getting their money in small amounts of permanent employees. I am vitally con­ and by personal loans and gifts, but they cerned about the effect of the Government's Supply [20 OCTOBER) Supply 871

policy on employment, and I am thinking of Mr. NEWTON: In reply to the Minister, employment in Government departments let us look at the position elsewhere. I will dealing with housing, schools, hospitals, put it fairly and squarely. forestry, main roads, lands, agriculture and stock, and so on. Government employees, The CHAffiMAN: Order! Will the hon. whether permanent or casual, have to find member please address the Chair. other jobs if they are dismissed. I am Mr. NEWTON: From my inquiries I have speaking not only of the metropolitan area, found that when retrenchments have taken but of Queensland as a whole. If hon. mem­ place, or when people have been compelled bers were to look at the list of the various to shift from one industry to another, they Government departments they would know have more or less "given away" the trade as well as I that we have what we call they have learned and taken up something "camp towns". else. They have become disheartened. We heard the other day that we have not enough I am concerned about people in the various tradesmen. That is because, after putting Government departments. If money is not years into an industry, it suddenly collapses available for the departments, what will and they get disgusted and seek some other happen to these people who give service avenue of employment. to Queensland? I have a knowledge of these matters because I have travelled the South­ The Financial Statement deals with the west, the Central-west, and as far north as railway deficit and I am going to speak on Proserpine. During the last six and a quarter the two aspects of that subject that I know years I have visited nearly every small town something about. The one that concerns from there to the border, and I have seen me most is the closure of lines, whether in how Government employees in the camp the metropolitan area or in farming areas, towns give service to the country people in for it can react greatly to the detriment of building bridges, dams and many other the workers or farmers concerned. In areas essentials. with both rail and road transport, at least If there is to be any cut in those depart­ freight rates have been kept down .. But what ments, the people who have sacrificed every­ will happen to the workers or the farmers thing and have lived in these "camp towns" when a line is closed? The road transport will have to return to the cities. I am speak­ people will immediately increase their ing now not only of single men. Many charges. married employees also have lived in the Mr. Sullivan: Competition will rule that tents or huts, or semi-tent-huts; hon. members out. have seen them in the Forestry and Main Roads camps and the other camps I have Mr. NEWTON: I am pleased to have the mentioned. Their dismissal will present a hon. member's interjection because I dare say major problem for the Government because I can answer it better than any other hon. they will be faced with the problem of member. Immediately the railway line closes finding employment for them. the road transport people will do what others do in the metropolitan area; they will form The other day the hon. member for themselves into an association and fix a price. Fassifern referred to the Moogerah Dam. Competition does not enter into it with them. I do not know whether hon. members have I have seen it happen so often. People been there, but it would have opened their start off with free competition but, before eyes to see the number of people in the long, they form themselves into an associa­ camp before it broke up-tradesmen and tion and agree to charge the one price. It trade-unionists-who have sacrificed every­ will certainly happen with road transport thing to give the men on the land what they when they know the railway has gone. I require. The Moogerah Dam site is one of am a great stickler for the railways because the biggest in the State. Before they went I know what will happen otherwise to the there they were working on the dam in the farmers and workers. We should do all we North that has only recently been finished. can to keep the railway lines open. I do The huts were re-erected, and the families not know how it can best be done-that is came because they have followed that type a matter for the Treasurer-but perhaps it of work for years. I am very sincere about could be financed from some other depart­ this, because I have seen it and I know what ment or some other source. Obviously they these people do for the State. must be subsidised. If there is any cutting to be done in the Mr. Sullivan: Cut one service to keep expenditure of departments it is to be hoped another going; is that your idea? that the Government will consider the question that I directed to the Minister for Mr. NEWTON: No. I do not mean to Transport when the workers were sacked at reduce any services at all. My idea is to Banyo. I hope they will transfer these people find finance elsewhere to maintain rail ser­ from one department to another. vice to the farmers and workers. Mr. Pizzey: What about in the private I worked on the Warwick-Maryvale line sector? Boilermakers are wanted in the for years before the war. Road transport private sector. came in because in most cases it saves the 872 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply farmers carting cream miles and miles by Mr. NEWTON: Exactly, but I want to horse and sulky. It might sound strange make sure that the public do not get a false to speak of horse and sulky, and this was impression that the Government have plenty only back in 1935, but, to save transporting of money. If they have not the money, Jet their cream by horse and sulky to the station, them tell the people. It is quite possible that they patronised road transport. We had a when Cabinet meetings are held in provincial first-class gravel road from Maryvale to cities and £4,000,000 projects are mentioned Warwick. Today it is a bitumen highway. in the Press, people will think that the I have not been back there since the war Government have plenty of money and will but I dare say the railway is patronised only spend their own money more freely. when wheat is carted to the nearest bulk Mr. Walsh: They would be borrowing store. They grow wheat there. from the hire-purchase companies. A similar position exists with the Cleve­ land-Lota line. Road transport has been Mr. NEWTON: That is the point I am there for years to my knowledge. I was coming to. down there during the war and I returned Mr. SuHivan: If you were living in the there after the war. Road transport was there country, wouldn't you think it was a good then. A couple of fruit trains run each idea for the Cabinet to come out there? week. They are not actually fruit trains but trains that take the vegetables out to link Mr. NEWTON: I am not objecting to that. with the other trains that go down south. I am trying to ensure that we do not leave a To transport strawberries more quickly to false impression in the minds of the people the Sydney market the farmers are using road of Queensland. transport. I have seen them down there Mr. Sullivan: They could just as easily get loading at about half-past 4 in the afternoon a false impression if the Cabinet meeting to catch the Sydney train at Clapham was held in Brisbane. Junction at half-past seven. That is the sort of thing the railways are competing Mr. NEWTON: That may be so. with. It is a sorry state of affairs for the Cleveland line because many farmers prob­ Having listened to the various speeches, I ably would still appreciate the rail service. now have a fairly good idea of how the Many workers come from that area to the drought is affecting farmers in Queensland, city. And what is the service that is being and I think that if the Premier and the Treasurer had approached the Acting Prime provided at present? On week days, Monday Minister, Mr. McEwen, during the absence of to Friday, there are 14 trains a day, includ­ the Prime Minister, they might have received ing steam trains with a number of carriages a favourable hearing. It seems that under on Saturday 11, and on Sunday eight. In the new formula, and with the setting up of fairness to that area, I think it would have a special Grants Committee, the hands been better to consider first cutting the ser­ of the Government, whether Labour or vices. Looking at the train time-table, it Liberal-Country Party are fairly well tied. seems that trains are warranted early in but I think this would have been a wonderful the morning, not so much in the middle of opportunity for the State Government to the day, and again at night when the workers approach the Federal Government for assist­ are returning home. I think it is a pity ance. that the line is being closed. I am also concerned about the curtailment I wish to refer now to Cabinet meetings of work. I believe there should be no curtail­ being held in provincial cities, and I do not ment of work in peace-time. Looking at the want to be misinterpreted. It is probably Federal Budget, I think the Commonwealth costly to hold Cabinet meetings in provincial Government could grant something to the cities, but I am not greatly concerned about States out of the heavy defence expenditure that. What I am concerned about is that that is provided for. Again this year we see when Cabinet meets in the country and that it is somewhere near £200,000,000. An announces through the Press the approval of extra couple of million pounds would not be projects costing millions of pounds, it should missed out of that fund. I can see no reason be clearly indicated to the Press how the why we should be spending this huge amount project will be financed. We have many of money for national defence in peace-time people working in Government depart­ when we could be using it to develop what is ments, and if they see that £4,000,000 necessary for defence in Queensland. If we is being spent on a particular pro­ could get the money to build the roads and ject they will think everything is rosy. It aerodromes we need, standardised railways, will tend to give them a false sense of hospitals and things of that nature, are they security. I have no objection to Cabinet's not just as important in peace as in war? announcing the approval of the project, but I think it should be made quite clear to the It is pleasing to note in the Financial public where the money is coming from. Statement that a considerable sum has lYeen set aside for education. We fully realise that Mr. Sullivan: That would be just as we cannot sit back on this important matter. important if they held the Cabinet meeting Development all over the world proves that in Brisbane, wouldn't it? we need to encourage young people to go Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 873 right through the educational field, that we generally, are more closely housed than they must ensure that they enter the professional are in the country and epidemics could occur fields in this atomic and jet age. at any time in the outer suburbs of Brisbane. Mr. Walsh: They are going to sack 700 In his Budget speech the Treasurer laid women teachers. emphasis on present building activity in the State and made it look as if times were good Mr. NEWTON: Yes, and we are told they and prosperous. The building industry is are going to sack more. It is a tragic state probably the most peculiar in the State. of affairs when we realise that there are 50 Since the war it has been hit twice, once and 60 children in some classes and that in in 1952 and again in 1957, and when it some instances they are being taught by "flops" it does so overnight. When that young teachers in their first year. happens it affects not only the building indus­ try itself but also a considerable number of Education should be a National responsi­ subsidiary industries such as sawmills, joinery bility rather than a State responsibility. A works. metal works, electrical shops and natwnal standard should be laid down many others. If no building work is going for all States. If such a scheme were on the other undertakings cannot sell the initiated the State Departments of articles they produce. Great care must there­ Education would handle the finances fore be exercised in the building programme for education, just as is done at the present in this State. It is true that at present we time with State housing. Queensland is not have quite a good housing programme in the only State that is having problems con­ operation in addition to there being a con­ cerning education. The Victorian Govern­ siderable amount of commercial building in ment are endeavouring to get an extra progress. £1,000,000 from the Commonwealth Government to help them out of their I do not want to take anything from the difficulty. Gold Coast representatives, but quite recently l was visited in my capacity of field organiser The Budget lays down the Government's for my union by several persons from the programme for the free hospitalisation Gold Coast. It is an area that I have visited scheme. In the policy speech delivered by the regularly. At the time it was hinted that Deputy Leader of the Government, Mr. valuations on the Gold Coast would be con­ Morris said- siderably increased and these people asked "Queensland has made greater progress me what was the next best port to get a in health administration in the last three job. They told me that land valuations years than any other State in Australia. had affected the building industry at that I reiterate the pledge of the Premier that time. I do not know what the position is Queensland's fre'e hospitalisation system now. As I have not since seen anybody will not only be maintained but will be from there. improved and extended." It is true that the position, judging from That appeared in "The Courier-Mail" of the Budget, looks quite good. Quite a bit 12 May, 1960. Although we may still be of building is to be carried out by the Gov­ enjoying free hospitalisation in Queensland ernment on schools and in the Department the programme has been lagging, particularly of Health and Home Affairs. That will in the building of hospitals and maternal and boost the industry for a while. child-welfare clinics. I am not at all surprised For some considerable time the building to see that that is contained in the programme industry has been of great assistance in for this year. employing seasonal workers during the slack seasons. The Treasurer is probably thinking Mr. Windsor: £2,000,000 more this year. about that. Early this year, when the meat­ Mr. NEWTON: That is quite true. The works finished their season sooner than reason for that is the lag in the building of expected, numbers of meat-workers were hospitals and maternal and child-welfare working as labourers and semi-skilled work­ clinics in the Government's previous term. ers on building projects, including schools That is why more is being allowed. and other Government projects, around the city. The building industry can bring about I understand that in the Budget there is stability when seasonal industries provide no curtailment of the grant to local authori­ employment for a shorter period than usual. ties up to June 1961. Here again I would The Treasurer had much to say about the have liked to see the grant much more than effect of marginal increases. They have it is, not merely for the metropolitan area been granted to high-ranking members of but for all local authorities. the community, judges and Court members, Country local authorities must be facing as well as the white-collar workers. I want similar problems to those in Brisbane. Since to make it clear that I am not opposed to the war there has been rapid expansion which increases for white-collar workers, but we has brought about many problems. found on this occasion-as in the past­ In my electorate it would be diffi­ that the Government agreed to pay the cult to find any dust-free roads or any gen­ increases to them, but not to physical eral system of water channelling. Those things workers. I have a high regard for physical are important in the country also but in the workers. Even the biggest machine will fail city our children, and indeed the public if its smallest cog breaks. Physical workers 874 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

live in a different way from white-collar I remember quite well on a deputation to workers. Their work is harder and they the former Minister for Public Works, Mr. are affected to a greater extent by climatic Heading-he always gave us a very good conditions. Whenever marginal increases hearing-who said he had learnt a very are suggested for them, however, complaints bitter and hard lesson during the 1946 bacon are raised. The Treasurer said that the factory dispute. He was the chairman of marginal increase of 28 per cent. has had a directors of the company. He said that big effect on the Budget. We must remem­ dispute taught him-I am sure he will verify ber that workers who were granted increases these words-that there are always two sides by agreement amounting to 27s. 6d. and to a question. 17s. 6d. a week have not received a marginal I will come back to the Commonwealth increase. If they had received it, the effect Engineering dispute. On the figures we were on the Budget would have been much shown by the management, if the metal­ greater. The margins decision should have trade workers in that establishment were been applied to the workers who, under an granted a 28 per cent. margin on what the agreement with their employers, got workers were getting at Granville in New increases of 27s. 6d. and 17s. 6d. The South Wales, they would be entitled to at employers agreed in 1956 or 1957 to pay least £1 6s. 9d. It was clearly indicated these over-award amounts, and they should that in New South Wales the men were not have been taken into account in any getting £7 6s. above the basic wage in that decision in the application for a 28-per cent. State compared with £5 2s. 6d. in Queensland. marginal increase. The application should There was a difference of £2 3s. 6d. The have been granted, and these workers should New South Wales company is the same as have got an increase. The previous Labour that in Queensland. We said to the manage­ Government had a similar problem. The ment, "On the figures you have shown us 1957 formula was three-sevenths of the basic this company could definitely afford to pay wage. On that occasion tradesmen received the workers in Queensland something extra." 18s. and semi-skilled workers 9s. Through The management made it quite clear that no fault of the trade unions the court gave they were willing to put the matter before its decision six weeks after the case was the management in New South Wales pro­ heard. The employers kicked up a row vided one person in particular did not object. about it and they had my sympathy, but That was where the downfall arose in the we were not in a position to tell the court dispute and that is why I bring it to the how or when it should give its judgment. attention of the Chamber. That person was In 1955 the two-and-a-half-times formula Mr. Grounds, the secretary of the Metal was applied. Tradesmen received lls. but Trades Employers' Federation. It is quite no increase was granted to semi-skilled evident that when the management put up workers. The Labour Government had to the proposal to him, in the light that they bear both these marginal increases and I were willing to put the proposal to the do not remember them making any big song management in New South Wales that some­ about it. They realised it was something thing should be offered to the workers, he that had to be met and if they employed stood flat-footed and dictated not only to labour these increases had to be expected the management, but evidently must also have from time to time. dictated terms to the Government, too. The dispute at Commonwealth Engineering Within a day or two of our negotiations, Qld. Pty. Ltd. has been mentioned. The the legislation that none of us like to see workers in that company are working under used was invoked and a state of emergency both State and Federal awards. They are was declared. True, the workers have registered in both the State and Federal returned to work, but they still have the courts. Their Queensland organisers' opera­ feeling that they were not given justice, that tions extend a long way down into northern they were hit with the back of the axe. If New South Wales. I was very concerned at the matter had been handled in the right the recent dispute at the Commonwealth way, that would never have happened. Engineering works. The Government In my 6! years' experience as a trade­ appointed two members-the Deputy Leader, union official-as a field worker and State Mr. Morris, and the Minister for Transport, organiser-! have travelled throughout the Mr. Chalk-to investigate the dispute and State; I have been on the spot at Industrial see what they could do to settle it. The Court hearings, and I have attended many most unfortunate part about it is that those conferences with employers, and often we two gentlemen, to my knowledge, did not have been able to settle a dispute quickly. endeavour to meet the members of the union If we had taken the other course, and if we who were out on strike, or their leaders. had had to wait for the dispute to be settled That should have been done, because two by arbitration, we would have been waiting other members on this side of the Chamber a very long time. and I did not hesitate to have a discussion with the union leaders on the problem. We In any talk of margins we must consider even visited Commonwealth Engineering Ltd. the whole subject of apprenticeship. Appren­ and had a discussion with the management tices give five years of their lives to industry, so that we could hear both sides of the not at a very high wage, to learn a trade story. so that we will have tradesmen for tomorrow. Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 875

Despite the shortage of tradesmen today, not on "like-with-like," and showed that our enough young people on leaving school take tradesmen had to serve the same apprentice­ up apprenticeships in industry. I do not ship as skilled tradesmen in other industries blame them. I live very close to most of who had received the 27s. 6d. On all occa­ the abattoirs and bacon factories in my area sions our claim was rejected, and in plain and young lads about 16 or 17 years of age words we were told by the court to go and can earn twice as much pay there as a get it in the same way as the other people third or fourth-year apprentice can. Any had got it and then to come back and action taken on margins has a big effect on they would write it into the award. That apprentices. Any increased margin that is putting it very plainly so it can be clearly tradesmen get is automatically passed on to understood. the apprentices. Apart from that, apprentices On the subject of unauthorised strikes, have not to my knowledge received any direct I advise hon. members to buy a copy of wage increases since 1956 or thereabouts. the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Irrespective of the politics of the Govern­ Act and study it. I am no lawyer, but if ment, the problem of margins has arisen one did everything one should to make a before and probably it will come up again. strike legal, one would still be beaten, because I read in tonight's "Telegraph" that the the court has the right, despite the fact that cost of living in Queensland in the last one has complied with every clause in the quarter showed an increase equivalent to Act, to say that it is an illegal strike and a rise of 3s. in the basic wage. I am the men must return to work. I ask hon. pleased that the Minister in charge members not to be misled by some of the of prices is in the Chamber. His answer statements that are made from time to time, to the question I asked him some time because the position is very serious. It is ago was reasonable. I am concerned even more serious now because a committee most about when and how the approach is has been set up by the Government to inquire to be made to the Federal Government on into the Act. prices and other relative matters. The Many matters should be looked at. In the working man is not so much worried about last three years there has been a strong the increase in the price of butter, sugar, attack on a number of the provisions of the or any other single commodity. He pays Act, those dealing with statutory holidays in the increased price, but he is hit hardest particular. It was very significant that last by the increased price of things containing year, the State's centenary year, when the those commodities. One finds that the price Government were good enough to declare a of nine or ten other articles increases when public holiday to celebrate the Centenary, the price of butter or sugar is increased. most employers in the building industry I wish to deal now with the arbitration exercised what are regarded as their rights system. When the subject of wages has been on statutory holidays. Although it may raised, the Deputy Premier has often said, appear that under their awards and the "Why don't you abide by arbitration instead provisions of the Industrial Conciliation and of the law of the jungle?" Unions and their Arbitration Act workers are paid for members may negotiate with employers for statutory holidays, they do not receive them improved conditions in their award or for at all if the employer asks them to work on increased wages or margins. Having reached holidays and they refuse. It was a shocking agreement with the employer, they must then state of affairs for employers in the building go back to the court either to have the industry to ask their employees to work on agreement duly registered in the court or that day. After all, a public holiday for that to have the benefits written into their award. purpose is declared only once in 100 years. If they did not do that the benefits they The same thing has happened with other had gained would be of no use to them, public holidays. That is one matter among because they could get them today and have many that the committee should take into them taken from them tomorrow. But once consideration when examining the provisions a provision is written into an award or an of the Act. agreement, there must be an application to The present Act is a very powerful one. the Industrial Court to remove it. It has strong penal clauses. Fines of from I do not think there is any question of £10 up to £100 can be imposed on a trade getting away from arbitration. When a unionist. As various penal clauses can be union applied for increased wages years ago, linked together, costs against a union and its it went to the court, presented its case, and members can amount to thousands of usually got a particularly good hearing. pounds. Even though the Act presently con­ Today a union must be able to prove to tains such strong penal clauses, shortly after the court that the production of the industry the Government were returned the Deputy is at an all-time high level and that the Premier said in an outburst that the penal profits of the industry are able to bear the powers of the Act would have to be strength­ increase asked for. That is the custom and ened. They are sufficiently vicious now to the practice of the court at present. I can recall ordinary trade unionist. The best way to my own union, the Building Workers' Indus­ overcome industrial problems would be to trial Union, applying to the court for the adopt a more serious approach to what the 27s. 6d. and 17s. 6d. from 1956 onwards. Minister for Labour and Industry has We submitted three cases, basing our claim suggested from time to time-better 876 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply employer-employee relationship. But to bring found employment along it. Some men in about better employer-employee relationship, my electorate-in Cannon Hill, Murarrie, the principle must be applied not only to one Doboy, and places like that-now find them­ particular phase of their relationship but to selves cut off from direct access to their all. places of work and from the places where they naturaly do their business. Mr• .HARRISON (Logan) (9.29 p.m.): This debate presents an opportunity for hon. Mr. Walsh: What would be the interest members to draw attention to any matters involved in that line? they consider deserving of special attention. Although I wish to speak mostly on matters Mr. HARRISON: I think the figure was of general interest, for a few moments let quoted at about £10,000 or £11,000. me refer to a matter of particular concern Mr. Walsh: The Treasury will still have to to many people in one part of my electorate. carry that, even if the lirre is closed. I refer to the closure of the Lota-Cleveland railway line. First of all I express my thanks Mr. HARRISON: That is so. and appreciation both to the Minister tor When this proposed new system of road Transport and the Minister for Education transport comes into operation it can only be a,1d Migration for their respective assurances operated over a very long and costly round­ that adequate alternative transport will be about route. The difficulty cannot be provided. However, I do think it is my overcome until a road bridge is built responsibility to point out that sudden across Lota Creek. People in the decisions of this nature create problems. area have advocated the building of They certainly do not leave much time for that bridge for the last 40 years, but any really thorough investigation following it is now urgently needed, and I hope it them. will soon be an accomplished fact. The consequences that must naturally flow from the shifting of responsibility for trans­ Mr. Walsh: What was the loss on the line port in any area from the railways to road for the year? transport are quite serious. One immediate Mr. HARRISON: I have not the figure consequence of the decision to close this rail­ with me. way line and to rely solely on road transport is that the railways pass a burden-and quite Mr. Walsh: It would be over £100,000. a heavy one-onto the shoulders of the local Don't you think it would be right for the authorities and the ratepayers of th:e area. Government to divert that sayjng to the The result is that the responsibility for pro­ construction of a road bridge? viding any necessary additional roads or improvements to existing roads-undoubtedly Mr. HARRISON: It would be a very good both those things would occur-would be idea. r laced on the local authorities. New roads Before I leave the closure of this line, I would have to be built and existing ones must draw attention to the rapid development strengthened to serve the needs of heavy bus of the whole of the Redlands area. A com­ transport. They will have to be brought up parison of statistics for the years 1950 and to a standard much higher than that at 1960 will prove my point. There were present, and it is estimated that that could 2,819 properties rated in 1950, and the easily cost the council in that area more than figure grew to 6,000 in 1960. The popula­ £100,000 over a short period of time. tion in 1950 was 5,670; it is now 8,100. In This rather sudden shift of responsibility 1950 there were 2,000 occupied dwel!ing_s, from rail to road transport suggests to me that compared with 3,116 in 1960. In addition we have a look into the Main Roads Depart­ we find a vast increase in subdivisions of ment's policy. I think it would require some land within the last two years. The shire relaxation of th:e present policy of that council at present has between 6,000 and department in not approving any new roads 7,000 blocks under consideration. I give until the building of all roads already those figures to show the readiness of people gazetted has been completed. In the circum­ to reside in, and their preference for, an stances. I hope that consideration will be area that is convenient to Brisbane and given to that matter so that the burden will Moreton Bay. The one amenity it lacks not fall entirely on the local authority. is a reticulated water supply. Just as I hope I sincerelv feel that that line is in exactlv it will not be long before a bridge is built the same position as so many other railway over Lota Creek, I hope it will not be long lines throughout Queensland that have played before residents of the Redlands area get a part in developing the State and that were this amenity. once the sole means of transport between I now turn to a wider field, that is, rising centres. costs. It is one of the most important and serious problems in Queensland, particularly Mr. Hanlon: You did not do as well as as it affects our ability to continue as a the Country Party fellow from Wallaville who producer and exporter of primary products. got his kept open. I was pleased to hear several of my col­ Mr. HARRISON: Over the years. many leagues, particularly the hon. member for people made their homes along this line and Somerset, refer to the matter during this Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 877 session. I support and confirm their views We could agree with those words. I sincerely and share their concern. The real menace hope that he and his party will live up to of rising costs is not clearly recognised by what he said. If they do, we will get along many sections of the community that manage, much better. How many people really stop by some means or other, to preserve, equit­ to think of the overall and damaging effect able relationship with the ever upward move­ on the economy of these constantly rising ment in costs. I seems to me that we are costs? again letting ourselves into a mad race to Mr. Burrows: Do you think the Govern­ keep level in which many people-far too ment realised that when they abolished price many-are not stopping to think where it control? is all leading, or to feel any sense of respon­ sibility towards those sections of the com­ Mr. HARRISON: I think so. I do not munity that are quite powerless to obtain think that is the real basic reason for it. any corresponding adjustment in their I want to know how many people stop to position. I refer, of course, to those who think of the damaging effect on our primary are hopelessly lost in this mad race and and exporting industries. I want to know compelled to live on a pensi_on or a fixed just how long we can expect our economy income. to remain stable if we allow our export Listening the other day to the Deputy industries, which have to compete on the Leader of the Opposition, while I could world markets, to become crippled by our share his concern for the effects of rising internal costs, most of which, I would say. costs on the wage-earner, I could not help have been thoughtlessly imposed. When we feeling he was missing a vital factor in this attempt to analyse the reason for this blight ever-growing problem when he claimed that of ever-rising costs, surely we must realise the wage-earner had to bear the full burden that one of the main reasons is that far too of rising costs. By way of interjection I few people feel any sense of obligation to tried to convey to him that it was not a give equal value, either in goods or services, matter of the wage-earner bearing the full for the level of reward they receive. In burden, but rather one of the wage-earner plain language, a little more honest effort understanding that we all have a problem and hard work all round by all concerned on our hands that has grown to a stage would help a great deal to get us out of the where it must be shared and faced by every­ dangerous position we are in today. Unfor­ body. If ever we are to find an answer to tunately, this sort of wholesome remedy it we must learn to share the burden. It which, by the way, never hurt anybody, is not borne by any one section. seems to be regarded as impossible to rely on as a way of getting us out of trouble When the Leader of the Opposition spoke because it is generally regarded as too in the recent debate on the Treasury Funds politically unpopular. Investment Act Amendment Bill, I was more interested. I should like to quote what he Let us take a closer look at the position said because I heartily agree with him. In of the primary producer and see just how "Hansard" No. 6 at page 512 the Leader of he fits into the picture of rising costs. the Opposition said- Generally speaking, most hon. members will "Any added burden, whether it be agree that the primary producer can hardly interest rates, wages, freight or taxation, be expected to put more time and energy will make it progressively harder for Aus­ into the conduct of his business, for he tralia to face up to the problems con­ usually works longer hours than most other fronting the world today." people in the community. In many cases he works every day of the week throughout He went on to say- the year. Hon. members will realise that at "However, the problem of inflation is present he has his back to the wall properly tremendously important. We of the Aus­ with the widespread drought that is threaten­ tralian Labour Party will use every pos­ ing disaster in so many rural areas. I do sible occasion to force home to the Aus­ not think there has been a sufficient appre­ tralian people the need to take a lively ciation of the efforts of the primary pro­ interest in it. Apart from our political ducers to cope with the present drought's responsibility as members of a party, we threat. I say without hesitation that the have a collective responsibility as mem­ effects of the present drought would already bers of Parliament to join in an effort have been much more apparent and much to combat the trend in cost structure, more serious if it had not been for the solid which is imperilling the economy of the work put by primary producers in recent country. years into improving the capabilities of their On the other hand, we have the problem properties to withstand at least the ever­ of either stabilised or falling prices for occurring dry periods that we must expect in primary products with an accelerated price our Queensland climate. They have done for manufactured articles. Demand for this by greater attention to better water the farmer's produce is increasing year facilities and irrigation wherever possible, by by year whereas the prices he gets for more conservation of fodder, by improving them are either stabilised or declining. It pastures and by erecting fencing for the is impossible to maintain that position for subdivision of their land. Much more could very long." have been done in this direction if there 878 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

had been greater recogmtron by all Govern­ Australia and also taking into consideration ments, particularly the Commonwealth the effects of overseas conditions on trade Government, of the national importance of and industry. still further reducing farm costs wherever That is a wide responsibility, and I there was opportunity to do so. am very hopeful that a landmark will be It is only fair to mention one outstanding reached next week by general agreement that form of assistance that has been given by the primary industries of Australia realise the Commonwealth Government over the that they are facing a very difficult future years. Great credit must be given to Sir and that their only hope is to get together Arthur Fadden for his share in the decision and present a reasoned case to State Gov­ to allow valuable tax concessions to primary ernments, and particularly to the Common­ producers to encourage them to build up their wealth Government, and be in a position to properties steadily by way of equipment and ensure that some good solid thinking should improvements. This assistance has been be done on matters affecting the primary one of the main reasons why primary pro­ industries. ducers have stood up to this drought better I will admit that up to the present our than any other in the long history of droughts primary industries, because of their organis­ in Queensland. ation, are in a quite different position from Mr. Duggan: And McEwen pushed him big business, commercial undertakings, or out of Cabinet for all his record of service even trade unions, because we have had until that you talk so much about! recently only a part-time secretary at the Federal level. Now we have a full-time sec­ Mr. Davies: He was a Queenslander, too! retary, and it is time we got together and built Mr. HARRISON: He did a good job. He up a structure there with some of the best understood the need for assistance of that brains in Australia to ensure that the primary kind. industries present the best possible case in their own interests and in the interests of I am not unmindful either. of the valuable Australia. assistance, both in advice and field work, given by our own Departments of Agriculture I should like to deal briefly now with some and Forestry and of Irrigation and Water of the opportunities that a Commonwealth­ Supply, by the C.S.I.R.O., and by the wide organisation such as the National Universities. For all that, the urgent need Farmers' Union will have to advocate on a to reduce rising farm costs remains. If national level not only a vitally necessary primary producers are to survive and con­ reduction in present farm costs but also a tinue to contribute over 80 per cent. of our better balanced programme for the develop­ exportable wealth, all primary-industry ment of the whole country. First I would organisations will have to do something for mention the need for a complete overhaul of themselves. They will have to get together the present tariff protection given to second­ more closely and more effectively than they ary industries, where possibly in many have in the past in order to succeed in instances justification could no longer be influencing both the Government and shown for further tariff protection. That public thinking on this very vital matter. is indisputably adding to primary pro­ duction costs in Australia. Next I men­ Next week in Canberra there will be an tion the need for research by such an assembly of representatives of all the organisation to enable more authoritative primary industries of Australia at the Federal information to be placed before arbitration level. They will meet with the object of courts on the effect that ever-upward wage creating a stronger and revitalised National determinations will have on the economy of Farmers' Union, which will ensure its place the export industries of Australia. I know as a co-ordination of primary producer that they have an effect on the whole of the organisations and discuss ways and means of economy, but a particularly damaging effect emphasising that role from an organisational on the export industries. I have heard many point of view. The functions of this National members recognise that. Farmers' Union will include attention to matters of a broad nature that affect primary I want to mention some matters that producers generally. One thing that I know should be kept before the notice of the will be put up by Queensland, among many Federal Government, who have a national' other suggestions for improving its effect­ obligation to provide adequate financial sup­ iveness and ability to do a good job in the port for all activities that will help to offset interests of the primary industries, is that to farm costs. I do not think they have helped complete the structure of the National nearly sufficiently when we consider their Farmers' Union, as an organisation failure to provide adequate. financial reim­ adequately meeting the needs of Australia's bursement, and how it has retarded Queens­ primary industries, it would be imperative to land's development. It has reduced our ability engage the services of a full-time officer who to carry into effect plans that we know are would be fully capable of assembling and vital for the State's proper development. For presenting a case covering all aspects of any a start, I ask the Committee to consider this matter affecting the economics of primary State's Department of Agriculture and Stock. industry, including the relationship between Because of the work it has done over the that matter and the general economy of years it is certainly in a position to provide Supply [20 OCTOBER] Supply 879

the proven practical answers to many agri­ suited to our tropical and sub-tropical cultural and livestock problems, but unfor­ conditions. It is good to see this work being tunately, in common with other departments, carried out. I feel it will have a big influence it is far too short of finance to enable it to on the productivity of our beef herds and function to its full capacity. there is a possibility that it might be extended Let me refer to a new factor that is loom­ into our dairy herds. One of the features of ing In the livestock world-I refer to grow­ these cattle is that they have the ability to ing losses through infertility in both dairy thrive better in our hot conditions and to and beef cattle. In artificial insemination we withstand the ravages of ticks better than have an effective instrument to control infer­ normal British breeds. tility and, at the same time, to lift produc­ Mr. Windsor: Are they cross-breeds? tion. Unfortunately, until now, we have had insufficient money to bring the practice into Mr. HARRISON: Yes. They use them to general use. We have lagged behind in apply­ cross with the normal British breeds. ing our scientific knowledge. We know how Mr. Windsor: What are they? to make use of this important scientific advance now, but lack of finance prevents its Mr. HARRISON: We have the Brahmin being brought into general use. type, the Santa Gertrudis and our own breed in Queensland-Droughtmaster cattle. I am not going to elaborate on this matter because I hope to have an opportunity to I also commend the work of another speak about it when the Estimates are Queensland department, the Department of debated. But I do want to emphasise that Irrigation and Water Supply. losses through infertility in breeding herds is Mr. Walsh: They have been practically a matter of very great seriousness, and it is cut out this year. rapidly getting worse. We have to adopt what measures we can to stop it. I have heard Mr. HARRISON: Surely not in a State percentages quoted, but I do not know that like Queensland where we have such unre­ anybody has made a statistical survey. But liable rainfall. High priority in finance must trre percentage of losses in calving in dairy always be given to water supply and irriga­ and beef herds is a very serious matter, and tion under such conditions. It provides for the cause of a tremendous loss of income. a steady continuity of production for a com­ I understand that infertility is much more paratively small outlay, especially in already­ widespread in beef herds than is generally developed areas. I pay special tribute to the recognised. Farm Water Supplies Assistance Act, which has been of great benefit to many farmers. I would now like to deal with a The benefit is obtainable immediately and it few more things that are neglected in is a system that does not require a great deal the allocation of money by way of of money. reimbursement from the Commonwealth Government, and to point out some of Mr. Pizzey: The available money was not the benefits that could be derived from the all taken up last year. establishment of irrigated and dry land pas­ Mr. HARRISON: Many people recognise tures. There· again we have the know-how its worth. The scheme is not of great through our technical, scientific and exten­ financial magnitude, in many cases being sion staff in the Department of Agriculture financed by the individual farmers them­ and Stock and we could do much more if selves. However, it is very important that, we had more money. if a man has a property capable of develop­ I particularly commend the C.S.I.R.O. ment, he should not be denied the right and work in introducing more strains of grasses opportunity to do something that is done by and legumes and, in fact, breeding in Queens­ his neighbour who possibly can finance it land new types that are much better suited to himself. I have always maintained that one our tropical and sub-tropical conditions. I of the best bets for the future is water con­ feel sure that these grasses and legumes will servation and irrigation. give us much greater return from our dairy­ All the matters I have mentioned could have ing and beef production than we get from a tremendous effect in offsetting the crippling most of our native grasses and legumes. handicap of rising costs and could return The Department of Agriculture and Stock handsome dividends by way of increased has also done splendid work throughout production. My main point is that most of Queensland in providing experimental stations the items in the cost of production are in certain areas. I have a special word of entirely beyond our control. And that appreciation for the experimental station at raises the matter of the assistance that can Redland Bay, which deals with fruit and be provided to the primary producer, over vegetables. It is greatly appreciated by the and above the tremendous effort he is already farmers of that area. making. Our exports of wool, _meat, dairy I would like to mention briefly one other produce, sugar, grain and other crops now new development that is creating much provide 80 per cent. of Queensland's income, interest. It is the experimental work being and no Queensland Government could ever conducted by the Government, the C.S.I.R.O., allow the scourge of rising costs to cripple the University and the graziers, in the our export industries. A better answer will development of new breeds of cattle better have to be found to the present problem. 880 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

While I fully appreciate the difficulties and another one from India called nupserha, experienced by the Treasurer this year in both of which are known for their ability to apportioning to various departments the attack Noogoora burr. These insects are fairly totally inadequate tax reimbursement and selective. I have often spoken of what we loan moneys from the Commonwealth Gov­ hoped the insects would do for Queensland, ernment, a better answer must be found. The but for some strange reason their introduction only satisfactory one would seem to be a has not turned out quite as well, or run a system of priorities that would ensure in the course as smooth, as we expected. We know future continuation of planned development very careful safeguards must be taken to see of the whole State. In the final analysis that insects brought in for biological control the answer indisputably lies in better recog­ do not run wild and damage plants of very nition by the Commonwealth Government great value. We were told by our scientific of their national obligations. I am not advisers and entomologists that they would blaming the Queensland Government because attack sunflowers and a few garden plants, I do not think in the circumstances they but they are of little value to Queensland can do much better, but we cannot afford to compared with the damage that is done by relax pressure on the Commonwealth Gov­ Noogoora burr. ernment. We must strive for recognition It was agreed that these insects should be of Queensland's claim to a greater partici­ allowed into Australia for tests and experi­ pation in national development. In that mentation to see if they would damage other respect I refer again to the National Farmers' plants. We were under the impression that Union. I sincerely hope that through its they would be released on the understanding efforts and representations it will be able that they did no greater damage than we to make governments, particularly the already knew they would. They were tested Federal Government, recognise Queensland's for a couple of years on dozens and dozens claims, I trust it will exert a very strong of plants, and they were also put into a influence on the Federal Government. laboratory at Samford and tried out for effectiveness. Mr. Jones: Who will be representing the dairymen of Queensland at that conference? These are the results: they have proved that mecas from the United States will do a Mr. HARRISON: I will be one. job, and thrive and work reasonably satisfactorily along our coastal belt and well I now want to say something on another inland, but they are just a little doubtful matter that has a great bearing .on the that they will work so well in the western cost structure and production in Queensland. areas. Apparently the insects come out from I refer to noxious weeds. I was surprised the chrysalis stage when the weather gets to read that recent studies in the United warmer. That is not quite sufficient out west Kingdom, the United States of America and as they are wanted to come out after rain, Canada have revealed starting losses in pro­ or just after rain, when the Noogoora burr duction caused by noxious weeds. The is there then to attack. figures indicate an estimated loss of from 10 to 12 per cent. in pastoral; Mr. Ewan: The bulk of the Noogoora burr agricultural and dairy production. When is on the coast rather than beyond the that percentage is applied to Queensland Divide. the loss from noxious weeds amounts to Mr. HARRISON: On the western streams, over £30,000,000 annually. We could largely too, it does great damage and is a handicap control that loss if we gave it the proper to the wool industry. attention. We have allowed the problem to run away during the last hundred years and There is still a tremendous area of the it is time we made a more effective effort State in which the insect that I speak of before we finish up, in another lOO years, could do a good job. To my mind, it has many times worse off. done all that has been asked of it, but for some reason its release has been held up. Mr. Hilton: Don't you think a reasonable I wish the Minister for Public Lands and effort has been made in recent years? Irrigation were present in the Chamber, because he and his colleague the Minister Mr. HARRISON: Yes. I am going to say. for Agriculture and Forestry will be called that, but I am showing what the loss has been on to deal with this matter. I hope Queens­ where they must be making at least corres­ land representations to the Commonwealth ponding efforts and probably greater efforts authorities controlling the release of the than we are making. insects will be successful and that there will I wish to outline the disappointment I and not be any further delay. most landowners feel at the delay in the Mr. Hilton: The Commonwealth Govern­ release of the insects that, within the last ment are holding out on you. two years, were imported to assist in the biological control of Noogoora burr, which Mr. HARRISON: Yes, at the moment. But is one of the worst and most widespread of I do not want to be unfair to them. They our noxious weeds. We did a tremendous may come good in the end-I hope so­ amount of work and fought for years for but we have lost a season. approval to get these insects, and we finally We could have had a man back to the got one from the United States called mecas, United States to get more stocks of the Supply [21 OCTOBER] Questions 881 insects so that we might build up their Mr. Burrows: We could not get them in numbers and get on with the job. We are our district, even if we wanted them. just losing time. I will not speak any further on the subject because I know we Mr. HARRISON: The hon. member will be hearing more about it in the future. probably did not go the right way about it. While on the subject of noxious weeds, let me mention a very important function of Mr. Burrows: You go to the local authority, the Co-ordinating Board. I do not think don't you? many people know much about the work of Mr. HARRISON: Yes. Most local authori­ that board. There is no phase of rural land ties do have supplies on hand, and they are protection more important to the economy there at no cost until they are issued. The and progress of the State than the control hon. member should raise the matter with his of noxious weeds. Among the responsibilities local authority. of the Co-ordinating Board are the planning Mr. Burrows: Who stopped the local and control of eradication of noxious weeds authorities from retailing the knapsack sprays through the local authorities of Queensland. It to landholders at cost price? has done very valuable work but experience has shown that some amendments to the pro­ Mr. HARRISON: I think the hon. member visions have become necessary to strengthen should address that question to the Board. its capacity to do an even more effective job. I should also like to deal with the important Chief of those amendments would be to job done by the biological section of the define its powers more clearly, particularly Department of Public Lands. They are to facilitate the legal processes that have to charged with the responsibility for survey, be taken where land-owners and occupiers research and experimental work with noxious are not reasonably complying with the pro­ weeds. At the request of the Co-ordinating visions of the Act. Board, they do that work for it. Mr. Hilton: Where local authorities them­ The work of this section could be selves are not complying! improved by re-organisation to enable its services to be made available not only to the Mr. HARRISON: Yes. The whole position Co-ordinating Board, which is the principal becomes difficult and open to doubt if it body concerned with noxious weeds, but also becomes necessary to prosecute an owner who to the Department of Agriculture and Stock absolutely refuses to carry out his respon­ or any other department, and I believe that sibilities when he is able to. You can go there is fairly wide scope for re-organisation to court and fail in a prosecution. The law in this direction. I hope that we shall have needs tightening up; the hon. member for amendments before us at some stage, and I Carnarvon would know that. do not wish to make any more than a sketchy There is something else that I want to reference to the question now. recommend strongly. Probably these recom­ There are so many other matters having mendations will come from other quarters, a very close relationship to this matter of too, but I want to mention this because it farm costs that one might be tempted to has always been in my mind that we could speak for too long. However, there will get much more effective work if we appointed be opportunities to speak about them on the some regional inspectors or supervisors to Estimates, and I reserve further comment till help in this work. Not many would be needed then. in Queensland, but enough-six or eight or Progress reported. so-to co-ordinate the work of groups of The House adjourned at 10.25 p.m. local authorities. At the present time each local authority appoints its own supervisor. Often he is a first-class man, doing his job of controlling and dealing with the eradica­ tion of noxious weeds on roads and reserves and so on. Another might not know very much about it so that the work is not properly done, or sometimes there is even a lack of interest. If we had a group of well-trained men who knew their job thoroughly, they would be able to advise and assist the local authorities and their supervisors in carrying out the duties required of them in the control of noxious weeds. They would help get better co-operation with the land owners and advise them on correct methods of control, particu­ larly into the application of hormones. Mr. Burrows: Why couldn't you supply them with the hormones if they wanted them? Mr. HARRISON: I did not know that they could not be supplied.