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Unrevised Transcript of Evidence Taken Before the Select Committee On Unrevised transcript of evidence taken before The Select Committee on Economic Affairs Inquiry on THE ECONOMIC IMPACT AND EFFECTIVENESS OF DEVELOPMENT AID Evidence Session No. 12. Heard in Public. Questions 399 - 459 TUESDAY 29 NOVEMBER 2011 3.40 pm Witnesses: Ms Michela Wrong USE OF THE TRANSCRIPT 1. This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and webcast on www.parliamentlive.tv. 2. Any public use of, or reference to, the contents should make clear that neither Members nor witnesses have had the opportunity to correct the record. If in doubt as to the propriety of using the transcript, please contact the Clerk of the Committee. 3. Members and witnesses are asked to send corrections to the Clerk of the Committee within 7 days of receipt. 1 Members present Lord MacGregor of Pulham Market (Chairman) Lord Best Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Lord Hollick Lord Lawson of Blaby Lord Lipsey Lord Moonie Lord Shipley Lord Smith of Clifton Lord Tugendhat ________________ Examination of Witness Ms Michela Wrong, Author of It’s Our Turn to Eat Q399 The Chairman: Welcome to the Economic Affairs Committee. This is the 12th public hearing of our inquiry into the impact and effectiveness of development aid, and I have to say as a matter of form that copies are available of Members’ entries in the Register of Interests. Welcome back to the Committee, Ms Wrong, and I would very much like to thank you for your written submission to us which was very eloquent, very well expressed and extremely interesting. Michela Wrong: Thank you. The Chairman: We are looking forward to questioning you on it. I would be grateful if you would speak out loud and clear for the webcast and the shorthand writer. Are you happy to go straight to questions? Michela Wrong: Yes, sure, yes. The Chairman: Let me begin with the first question, and it is really this. As I say, we have been very interested to read your evidence, and a powerful theme running through your three books on Africa, in particular the one on Kenya, is the corrosive effect of foreign aid on the development of local political systems. This is obviously something that we as a 2 Committee have been very interested in. I wonder if you could describe briefly how in your experience this corrosion operates and what you see as the long term consequences for economic development. Michela Wrong: Yes, thanks, and thank you for asking me here today. I thought I would just start off with two small anecdotes. One of them happened when I was working as a journalist in Kinshasa in Zaire, now the Democratic Republic of Congo, and it was when Mobutu was still in power and Parliament was endlessly being log-jammed and held up by Mobutu and trying to hold him to account. One of the parliamentarians came up to me and said, “Why don’t you just get rid of him? Why don’t the Americans come with a helicopter and take him away, you know, just like they did with Noriega?”, and I sort of looked at him and thought, “Those days have gone now and you have to get rid of him now. You are a Parliament”, but it was also very unfathomable he should say that given Zaire’s history of outside and CIA intervention and Western intervention. But the other story that really always has stuck in my head is about when I was living in Nairobi as a journalist, in Kenya. There is there is this massive slum called Kibera, and it is sort of right on the outskirts, right in the middle on the outskirts of the presidential state house. As you go in, you see all these placards up, and these signs, you know, who is digging which well, Danida, Save the Children, Marie Stopes, which clinic, which latrine. It is all being done by agencies and NGOs, and there was this cholera outbreak and somebody was interviewing someone on the television, and he was looking at the television cameras and saying, “Where are the donors?”, and I sort of thought, you know, “Why wasn’t he saying, ‘Where is the mayor? Where is the city council? Where are the MPs?’, you know, ‘Where is the Government?’”. He was saying, “No, where are the donors?”. And for me it really exemplifies what seems to be a massive problem with aid, that you can talk the talk of democratisation and increasing accountability as a donor and how wonderful it is that multi- 3 party democracy has been sweeping across Africa, but aid per se does whittle away the accountability of African Governments. Jackie Cilliers, who runs the Institute for Strategic Studies in South Africa, says accountability moved offshore with aid; it becomes a relationship between donors and African Governments, and you have this bizarre situation where African voters, who queue up for hours and hours—we have an election going on in Congo at the moment, they queue up for hours—and yet in their heart of hearts they actually expect the donors to come in when there is a crisis, when something awful happens and the donors are going to be the ones that do something effectively. I think you see this in all sorts of other examples, Governments, African Governments, often treat their own select committees with complete contempt. Their Public Accounts Committee reports, which are often extremely incisive, very revealing, are never acted upon. They also ignore what the local press says, which is often very brave, very outspoken, and are much more concerned about what foreign journalists like myself when I was working for the Financial Times used to say. If the IMF delegation was in town, if the World Bank was sending a delegation, that was very important. What happened in parliamentary question time did not really matter and every year there would be this consultative general meeting with the World Bank and all the other donors, and the Kenyan Government. When I was living in Kenya, that was a really big deal, that was a very important event and you just began to feel what has happened to Parliament in all of this? What has happened to the relationship between the citizens and the voters, and the African Government? So I hope that conveys what I mean about the corrosive effect. You can talk as much as you like about ownership but aid in its long-term impact is basically anti-democratic, and it seems to me it is essentially a neo-colonial relationship. If you have that relationship in a continent with a history of Western intervention, slavery, the Cold War, the Imperial scramble for 4 Africa, then aid comes along. It is just another one of these experiences in which your fate as an African citizen is decided by outsiders. Q400 Lord Tugendhat: Could I just ask you a supplementary on this before I come to the main question? I am very struck by what you said. I always feel when I look at the television when there is a famine or some other natural disaster that the way in which it is reported, especially on the electronic media but in the press too, is always about what is the world community doing. You go to some dreadful place in Africa, the capital may very well be unaffected but the concentration is always on the locality where the problem is and the question is not what the Government is doing, why has this occurred in this country, what were the Government’s policies; it is always what is the world community, whatever that may be, doing. I think that plays rather to what you have just said. Michela Wrong: Yes, well, there is a reason for that because the—well, the ads that you will see appealing for money and the fundraising appeals are all being designed and put out by Médecins Sans Frontières, Save the Children, people who want donations, so they are presenting it to the British public as their problem, their responsibility as decent human beings. But, yes, I think there is a real absence of content to the discussion. Famines are not, on the whole, natural events. They are political events. They have been caused by the outcome of war, of food not being allowed to circulate around, of punishment being inflicted deliberately often by a government on a particular population, and all of these elements are routinely edited out by the journalists either because they do not understand them, genuinely they have been parachuted in without much context, they are fireman journalists, or because often they are depending on the NGOs and the agencies for their safety, for their guards, for their transport, and for their perspective. You know, they will be 5 briefed by the MSF or the DfID person or USAID or Save the Children. So they see it from that perspective. Q401 The Chairman: Thank you, you have explained very clearly how things are as you have seen them on the ground. What conclusions do you draw from that or what recommendations would it lead you to make? Michela Wrong: What recommendations would it lead me to make? I have a whole series of them. In terms of dealing with—you mentioned earlier that new Governments like the one in South Sudan, is that what you want me to tackle at this stage? The Chairman: No, it is really from the aid point of view. Michela Wrong: From the humanitarian aid or from development aid? The Chairman: Development aid.
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