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An Interview with Michael Greger, M.D., F.A.C.L.M

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An Interview with Michael Greger, M.D., F.A.C.L.M $Q,QWHUYLHZZLWK 0LFKDHO*UHJHU0')$&/0 E\0DUN+XEHUPDQ 0LFKDHO*UHJHU0')$&/0 LVDOL FHQVHGJHQHUDOSUDFWLWLRQHUVSHFLDOL]LQJLQ FOLQLFDOQXWULWLRQDQGDQLQWHUQDWLRQDOO\UHFRJ QL]HGVSHDNHURQDQXPEHURILPSRUWDQWSXEOLF KHDOWKLVVXHV+HKDVWHVWL¿HGEHIRUH&RQ JUHVVKDVDSSHDUHGRQVKRZVVXFKDV 7KH &ROEHUW5HSRUW DQG 7KH'U2]6KRZ DQG ZDVLQYLWHGDVDQH[SHUWZLWQHVVLQGHIHQVH RI2SUDK:LQIUH\DWWKHLQIDPRXV ³PHDWGHIDPDWLRQ´WULDO+LVODWHVWERRNV+RZ1RWWR 'LH DQG 7KH+RZ1RWWR'LH&RRNERRN EHFDPHLQVWDQW1HZ<RUN 7LPHV%HVW6HOOHUV'U*UHJHULVDIRXQGLQJPHPEHUDQG)HOORZ RIWKH$PHULFDQ&ROOHJHRI/LIHVW\OH0HGLFLQH+HLVKRQRUHGWR WHDFKSDUWRI7&ROLQ&DPSEHOO3K'¶VHVWHHPHGQXWULWLRQFRXUVHDW&RUQHOO8QLYHUVLW\'U*UHJHULVD JUDGXDWHRIWKH&RUQHOO8QLYHUVLW\6FKRRORI$JULFXOWXUHDQGWKH7XIWV8QLYHUVLW\6FKRRORI0HGLFLQH +LVQXWULWLRQZRUNFDQEHIRXQGDW1XWULWLRQ)DFWVRUJDUHJLVWHUHG F QRQSUR¿WFKDULW\ Growing up in Miami, Florida, were your parents health *UDQGPD)UDQFHVGLGKDYHDSURIRXQGLQIOXHQFHRQPH conscious? :KHQ,ZDVMXVWDNLGVKHZDVGLDJQRVHGZLWKHQGVWDJH 1RWDWDOOEXW,DPSOHDVHGWRUHSRUWWKDWWRGD\P\ KHDUWGLVHDVHDQGVHQWKRPHWRGLH6KHKDGKDGVRPDQ\ ZKROHIDPLO\LVIROORZLQJWKLVOLIHVW\OH E\SDVVVXUJHULHVWKDWKHUOLIHZDVQHDUO\RYHUDWDJH +RZHYHUDVFKDQFHZRXOGKDYHLWVKHKDGZDWFKHGDQHSL My late father, Max, used to say, “Most people don’t start VRGHRI 0LQXWHV WKDWIHDWXUHG1DWKDQ3ULWLNLQZKRUDQD thinking about their health until after they’ve lost it.” FOLQLFLQ&DOLIRUQLDDQGFODLPHGWKDWKHFRXOGKHOSSHRSOH Was this the case for you? UHJDLQWKHLUOLIHWKURXJKGLHWDQGOLIHVW\OHFKDQJHV6KH )RUWXQDWHO\QREXWDKHDOWKFULVLVH[SHULHQFHGE\P\ GHFLGHGWRPDNHWKHFURVVFRXQWU\WULSWRVHHKLPDQG HQGHGXSPDNLQJDUHPDUNDEOHUHFRYHU\$IWHUDIHZZHHNV VKHZDVZDONLQJPLOHVDGD\6KHZHQWRQWROLYHDQRWKHU \HDUVDEOHWRHQMR\KHUVL[JUDQGNLGVLQFOXGLQJPH6KH EHFDPHRQHRI3ULWLNLQ·VÀUVWVXFFHVVVWRULHVDQGZDVIHD WXUHGLQKLVELRJUDSK\6KHZDVRQHRIWKHSHUVRQVGHVFULEHG E\VD\LQJ´7KH\ZKHHOHGKHULQEXWVKHZDONHGRXWµ Was there a single book, article, or lecture that inspired you to become a vegan? <HV,WZDV-XO\ZKHQ'U'HDQ2UQLVKSXE OLVKHGKLVODQGPDUNVWXG\RQWKHLPSDFWRIOLIHVW\OHLQ UHYHUVLQJKHDUWGLVHDVHLQWKHPRVWSUHVWLJLRXVPHGLFDOMRXU QDOLQWKHZRUOG+HDUWGLVHDVHZDVWKHQXPEHURQHNLOOHU 'U*UHJHUEHLQJLQWHUYLHZHGE\0DUN+XEHUPDQLQ$NURQ2KLRRQ DQGKHZDVDEOHWRUHYHUVHLWZLWKRXWVXUJHU\RUGUXJV7KDW 6HSWHPEHU ZDVSUHWW\SURIRXQGIRUPH 1$7,21$/+($/7+$662&,$7,21 +($/7+6&,(1&( Q )$// Why do you think his FDQILQG +HDUW)DLOXUH work caught your atten- KHUHKWWSZZZMXVW tion compared to others’? WKLQNLWFRPKHDUWIDLO ,WMXVWPDGHVR XUHSGI@ PXFKVHQVH<RX·UH HLWKHUGDWDGULYHQRU When you finished \RX·UHQRWULJKW"6RPH medical school did you SHRSOHVPRNHFLJDUHWWHV go into private HYHQWKRXJKWKH\NQRZ practice? LW·VEDGIRUWKHP, GRQ·W ,GLGP\SRVWJUDG VPRNH FLJDUHWWHV XDWHPHGLFDOWUDLQLQJ EHFDXVH,NQRZLW·VEDG DWWKHODVWUHPDLQLQJ IRUPH SXEOLFKHDOWKKRVSLWDO LQ0DVVDFKXVHWWVEXW When you decided to WKHQ,ZHQWRQWKHURDG become vegan, was WRVSUHDGP\PHVVDJH there also an ethical 'U*UHJHUZDVLQVSLUHGWRJRYHJDQDIWHUUHDGLQJ'U'HDQ2UQLVK¶VODQGPDUN IDUDQGZLGH,I,VWD\HG component or was it VWXG\RQWKHLPSDFWRIOLIHVW\OHLQUHYHUVLQJKHDUWGLVHDVH LQSULYDWHSUDFWLFHRU just for health reasons? ZRUNHGLQDKRVSLWDO, %DFNWKHQLWZDVMXVWKHDOWK%XWWKHQRQFH\RXUGHIHQV PLJKWVHHDFRXSOHGR]HQSDWLHQWVDGD\EXW,ZDQWHGWR HVDUHGRZQDQG\RX·UHQRWSDUWLFLSDWLQJLQWKHPHDWHDWLQJ UHDFKDORWPRUH6R,EHJDQVSHDNLQJZKHUHYHU,FRXOG ZRUOG,WKLQN\RX·UHPRUHRSHQWRDPRUHFRPSDVVLRQDWH ÀQGDQDXGLHQFH6RPHWLPHV,ZDVJLYLQJXSWRWDONVD ZD\RIWKLQNLQJ(DUO\RQLQP\DGXOWOLIH,ZHQWWR)DUP PRQWK,QWKHHDUO\GD\V,ZDVRQWKHURDGIXOOWLPHJRLQJ 6DQFWXDU\DQG,GLVFRYHUHGWKDWRQFH\RXJLYHDSLJDEHOO\ IURPFLW\WRFLW\,KDGRQHNH\RQP\NH\FKDLQDQG, UXE\RXUHDOO\FDQ·WJREDFNIURPWKHUH GLGQ·WHYHQRZQDSLOORZ3HRSOHSXWPHXSDQGIHGPH DQGWKDW·VKRZ,OLYHG,DOVRVWDUWHGD I understand you did your undergraduate ³,I,VWD\HGLQSULYDWH YLGHRVHULHVZKLFKDOORZHGPHWRUHDFK work at Cornell. Was Dr. T. Colin Campbell WKRXVDQGVRISHRSOHQRWMXVWKXQGUHGV teaching there at the time? SUDFWLFHRUZRUNHG 7KDW·VZK\,ZHQWWR&RUQHOO8QIRU LQDKRVSLWDO,PLJKW How did you earn your living? WXQDWHO\,QHYHUKDGKLPDVDSURIHVVRU 3HRSOHKDYHDOZD\VEHHQYHU\JHQHU EXWHYHUVLQFH,VWDUWHGJREEOLQJXS VHHDFRXSOHGR]HQ RXVLQVXSSRUWLQJP\ZRUN,OLYHGRXWRI HYHU\WKLQJ,FRXOGÀQGRQFOLQLFDOQXWUL SDWLHQWVDGD\EXW P\FDUDQGGLGQ·WRZQRUQHHGDQ\WKLQJ WLRQDQG,KDYHUHDOO\QHYHUVWRSSHG :KHQP\FDUEURNHGRZQVRPHRQH ,ZDQWHGWRUHDFK ZRXOGGRQDWHDQRWKHURQH,GLGQ·WQHHG What made you choose Tufts University DORWPRUH ´ PXFKPRUHWKDQDFRPSXWHUZKLFKZDV for medical school? GRQDWHGDVZHOO ,GLGVREHFDXVHDWWKHWLPHWKH\KDGWKH6WHUQ6FKRRO RI1XWULWLRQDQGWKH\RͿHUHGPRUHFRXUVHVRQQXWULWLRQ I know that one of your first claims to fame was being WKDQDQ\RWKHUVFKRROLQWKHFRXQWU\+RZHYHUDVLWWXUQHG involved with the lawsuit against Oprah Winfrey. How did RXWHYHQ7XIWVRͿHUHGRQO\KRXUVRXWRI WKRXVDQGV RI that come about? KRXUVRISUHFOLQLFDOUHVHDUFK$QGLWZDVQ·WHYHQQXWULWLRQ )RUDSHULRGRIWLPH,ZDVLQYROYHGZLWKWKH2UJDQLF LWZDVOLNHWKH.UHEVF\FOHDOORYHUDJDLQDQGWKHELRFKHP &RQVXPHUV$VVRFLDWLRQZKLFKUDLVHGDZDUHQHVVDERXW LVWU\RIYLWDPLQV,WZDVQ·WFOLQLFDOQXWULWLRQWKDW,FRXOGEH 0DG&RZ'LVHDVHDQG,EHFDPHDQH[SHUWRQWKHLVVXH XVLQJWRDFWXDOO\KHOSSHRSOH,WZDVULGLFXORXVDQGVDGO\ 7KDWLVZKDWOHGPHWREHLQYROYHGLQWKH7H[DVODZVXLW WKLQJVDUHQRWPXFKEHWWHUWRGD\LQPHGLFDOVFKRROV DJDLQVW2SUDK:LQIUH\IRU´IRRGGLVSDUDJHPHQWµDODZ WKDWH[LVWHGLQVWDWHVWKDWPDGHLWLOOHJDOWRPDNHDOOHJ Dr. Herbert Shelton and his peers warned us about the HGO\XQIRXQGHGVWDWHPHQWVDERXWWKHKHDOWKGDQJHUVRI “brainwashing of medical school education”; were you able FHUWDLQSHULVKDEOHIRRGLWHPV0\UROHZDVWRDUJXHWKDW to avoid this? WKHVHZHUHLQGHHGIRXQGHGFRPPHQWV%XWRIFRXUVH ,DFWXDOO\ZURWHDERRNDERXWWKLVFDOOHG +HDUW)DLOXUH WKDW·VQRWWKHDUJXPHQWZHUHDOO\VKRXOGKDYHPDGH7KH WKDWGHVFULEHGP\WLPHUHVLVWLQJWKHLQGRFWULQDWLRQ,W·VIUHH DUJXPHQWZHZDQWWRPDNHLVWKDWZHKDYHIUHHVSHHFKDQG RQOLQHLIDQ\RQH·VLQWHUHVWHGLQZKDW,ZHQWWKURXJK><RX DUHVXSSRVHGWRKDYHWKHULJKWWRVD\ZKDWHYHUWKHKHOOZH +($/7+6&,(1&( Q )$// 1$7,21$/+($/7+$662&,$7,21 ZDQW%XWLI\RXFDQWDNHDELOOLRQDLUHDQGZUHFNSHRSOH·V ZHNHHSKLULQJQHZSHRSOH OLYHVE\GUDJJLQJWKHPWKURXJKWKHFRXUWVZKRUHDOO\ ZRQ"7KHLQGXVWU\ZRQ It seems that everyone in the whole-food, plant-based health movement is familiar with your book How Not to Die , Why did you go to work for the Humane Society of the but very few recall your book Carbophobia. United States? ,ZURWHLWLQUHVSRQVHWRWKH$WNLQVFUD]H,I\RX %HLQJRQWKHURDGDOOWKHWLPHEHFDPHSUHWW\PLVHUDEOH UHPHPEHUWKHUHZDVDWLPHZKHQPLOOLRQVRISHRSOHZHUH DQGDORQJFDPHDQLFHMRERIIHUWREHFRPHWKHLU3XEOLF RQWKH$WNLQV'LHWDQG,ORRNHGDURXQGDQGVDLGWRP\VHOI +HDOWK'LUHFWRUDSRVLWLRQ,NHSWIRUDGR]HQ\HDUV,GLG ´6RPHRQHQHHGVWRZULWHDERRNDERXWWKLVµEHFDXVHLW LQIHFWLRXVGLVHDVHZRUNIRUWKHPIRFXVLQJRQWKHSXEOLF ZDVVRULGLFXORXV7KHSUREOHPZDVWKDWIRXUPRQWKVDIWHU KHDOWKLPSOLFDWLRQVRI%LUG)OX0DG&RZ'LVHDVH6DOPR WKHERRNFDPHRXW$WNLQVGHFODUHGEDQNUXSWF\2IFRXUVH QHOODIRRGSRLVRQLQJDQGRWKHUVRFDOOHG]RRQRWLFDQLPDO ,SOD\HGQRUROHLQWKDWZKDWVRHYHU,MXVWFDPHLQDWWKH WRKXPDQGLVHDVHV HQGRIWKHZDYH What prompted you to leave that job? 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Mencken observation DQGHVVHQWLDOO\VDLG´<RX·UHRQ\RXU that “History has that rotten habit of RZQµ,GLGQ·WKDYHDQ\PRQH\DQG ,DPUHDOO\H[FLWHG ´ repeating itself.” FRXOGQ·WDIIRUGWRSD\DQ\RQHEXWWKH 2YHUDQGRYHUZKHUHGLHWVDUHFRQ GRQRUVXJJHVWHGWKDW,SXWXSD´'RQDWHµEXWWRQRQP\ FHUQHG3HRSOHNHHSIDOOLQJIRULW ZHEVLWH,ZDVVNHSWLFDOEXWLWZRUNHGLQFUHGLEO\ZHOO )URPWKHUHVSRQVHWRWKDWOLWWOHGRQDWHEXWWRQZHQRZ Tell me more about your organization NutritionFacts.Org. KDYHSHRSOHRQVWDͿDQGDUHUHDFKLQJPLOOLRQVRISHRSOH 7KDW·VP\EDE\7KDW·VZKDW,UHDOO\DP DPRQWKZLWKP\GDLO\YLGHRV,W·VUHDOO\FUD]\ When do you ever sleep, since you somehow post new videos every day! 8QWLOWKHUH·VQRWDVLQJOHSHUVRQOHIWZKRZRXOGFKDQJH LIWKH\NQHZWKHWUXWK,IHHOGULYHQWRJHWWKHHYLGHQFHRXW Am I correct that you, like the NHA, accept no advertising? WKHUHVRSHRSOHFDQPDNHWUXO\LQIRUPHGGHFLVLRQV $EVROXWHO\7KDWZD\ZHDYRLGWKHFRUUXSWLQJLQÁX HQFHRIFRPPHUFLDOLVP,ZDQWWREHFOHDQIURPDOOWKDW Did you ever dream in those early days when you were on JDUEDJH7KHZD\,VHHLWHYHQLI,RQO\DFFHSWHGPRQH\ the lecture circuit with no money and no possessions that IURPVD\WKH$SSOH%RDUGDQGWKHQ,GRDYLGHRRQWKH someday you would be reaching millions? EHQHÀWVRIHDWLQJDSSOHV,ZRXOGQ·WZDQWSHRSOHWRZRQ ,WUHDOO\LVIXQQ\DQGDPD]LQJZKHQ,ORRNEDFN,WDOO GHULQWKHEDFNRIWKHLUPLQGVLI,·PMXVWVD\LQJWKDWDSSOHV VWDUWHGOLWHUDOO\ZLWKDOLWWOHFOLSERDUGDQGDVPDOOVLJQXS DUHJRRGEHFDXVH,JRW´%LJ$SSOHµPRQH\,QHYHUZDQW VKHHWIRUP\QHZVOHWWHUDQGWRGD\SHRSOHVWRSPHRQWKH WKDWWREHWKHSHUFHSWLRQ VWUHHWWRWHOOPHKRZPXFKWKH\HQMR\ZKDW,KDYHVKDUHG And all of your posted videos and articles are free, right? Now it’s a virtual clipboard! <HVHYHU\WKLQJLVIUHH 5LJKW,UHPHPEHUZKHQ,ÀUVWUHDFKHGYLHZHUV WKURXJKP\ZHEVLWHYLGHRVDQGQRZLW·VLQWKHPLOOLRQV, Do you offer a “members-only” section? 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