1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SE.rTATE. 5869
PETITIONS, ETC. Also, petition of Connecticut Fair Assoclation, fa>oring Honso bill 15422, the agricultural extension bill-to the Coil.lillittee on, Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, petitions and papers were laid Agriculture. on the Clerk's de k and referred us follows : By Mr. AlTDEHSOL T: l etition of D. A. Dewey, of Fostoria, Alm, petition ofJ. R.Dutton, of Colchester, Conn., for a parcels Ohio, for House bill 2223!:>-to the Committee on the Post-Office post bill-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. n.ncl Post-Road . Al o, petition of Connecticut State Association of Let!er C:ir Also, petition of William II. Gibson Post, No. 31, Department riers, fnyoring the pro rata bill and the Worcester classification of Ohio, Grnncl Army of tile Repul>llc, against statues being bill-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Po t-Roads. placctl in Statuary Hall that perpetuate memory of the southern By Mr. HOLLINGSWORTH : Paper to accompany bill for confeueracy-to the Committee on the Library. relief of Cicero Williams-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. HOWELL of Utah: Petition of Wasatch Lodge, .i.. To. Also, petition of Champion Grange, Patrons of Husband~·y, of Upper Sanclu k-y, Ohio, for Senate bill 6!)31, for an appropr1i;i. 370, of the Brotherhood of Railway Carmen of America, of tion of $WO,OOO for extension of work of the Office of Public Ogden, Utah, for granting leave of absence with pay to em Roads-to tlle Committee on Agriculture. ployees of the United States on the Canal Zone-to the Com Also, paper to accornpnny bill for relief of Sarepta Dowler mittee on Railways and Canals. to tile Committee on Invalid Pensions. By l\lr. McCALL: Petition of citizens of Woburn, Mass., fa voring a parcels-post law-to the Committee on the Post-Office By l\fr. BE.i: l. rET of New York: Paper to accompany bill for relief of Mary Snyder anu Emma Crossman-to the Committee and Post-Roads. on JnyaJid Pensions. By l\Ir. MADDEN: Petition of Ladies of the Maccabees of the By .Mr. CLINE: Petition of Internatiorn1l Brotherhood of World, of Chicago, Ill., for amendment of House bill 21321, in Blacksmiths' Helpers No. 222, of E,ort Wayne, Ind., against the interest of fraternal periodicals as second-class mail mat federal control of th'~ water supply of San Francisco-to the ter-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Iloads. Committee on tile Public Lands. By l\Ir. l\IOHGAN of Mis ouri: Petition of Stanton Post, De By Mr. COOP~~R qr Wisconsin: Petition of South Dnkota partment of l\Iissouri, Grand Army of the Republic, of Carthage, Dairymen's and Butter Makers' Association, against repeal of l\Io., favoring House bill 18890, the volunteer officers' retire tbe Grout law and against enactment of the Burleson and ment bill-to the Committee on l\Iilitary Affairs. Simmons bills-to tlle Committee on Agriculture. By l\Ir. A. MITCHELL PAL !ER: Petition of citizens of B:v Mr. FOR.I\~S : Petition of Brotherhood of Locomotive Pennsylvania for Senate bill G031, to extend work of the Office Endneers, favoring Senate bill G702 and House bill 220GG, the of Public Ilouds-to the Committee on Agriculture. boner-inspection uills-to tbe Committee on Interstate and For By l\Ir. P .A.Yl\'E: Petition of Lad.Jes of the Maccabees of eign Commerce. the World, of Middlesex, N. Y., for amendment to House bill Al o, petition of Chamber of Commerce of Rochester, N. Y., 21321, relating to fraternal publications in the malls-to the welcoming svirit of good will and conference in railway legisla Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. tion-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. By Mr. SAE.A.TH: Petition of the Commercial Telegraphers' Union of America, favoring House bill 15441 and Senate bill Al o petition of South Dakota Dairymen's and Butter Afakers' 5578, the eight-hour biIJs-to the Committee on Labor. Associ~tion, against the Burleson and Simmons bills and. against Also, petition of Local No. 1, Commercial Telegraphers' Union repeal of the Grout oleomargarine law-to the Comnuttee on of America, of Chicago, 111., favoring House bill 11103 and Agriculture. Senate blll 6155, amending laws relative to American seamen Also, petition of Merchants' Association of New York, favor to the Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fi heries. in"' amendment to railway-rate law relatile to long-and-short By Mr. SHEFFIELD : Petition of Conn.nicut Grange, No. ha~1l clause-to the Committee on Inter tate and Foreign Com 21 Patrons of Husbandry, of Jamestown, R. I., in fayor of merce. S~nate bill G049, for a national depurtmc.nt of public hcalth By .Mr. FOSTER of \ermont: Petition of Union No. 32, to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. United Garment Workers of America, of Brattleboro, Vt., against Also, petition of Barrington Grange and Conanicut Grange, increased rate on second-class mail mnttor-to the Committee No. 21, Patrons of Husbandry, of Jamestown, n. I., for Senate on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. bill 4076, for appropriation for land-grant colleges-to the Also, petition of United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Committee on Agriculture. Joiners of .A.merlca1 agninst federal control of the water supply By Mr. SPERHY: Protest of the Connecticut Hnrdwarc As of ..::nn Francisco-to the Committee on the· Public Lands. sociation, a.~ainst parcels post-to the Committee on the Post By Mr. l!'ULLER: Petition of Laura Francis, county presiuent Office and Post-Rollds. of tlie Grundy County (Ill.) Woman' Christian Temperance By l\Ir. STEVENS of l\Iinncsota: Petition of Grand Council Union, favoring the passage of the Gillett bill (H. R. 1Dl97) to of l\Iinncsota, Roya.I Arcnnum, for House bill 17ri43-to the promote the public health, etc.-to the Committee on Interstate Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Iloads. nnd !foreign Commerce. By l\Ir. THO .. IAS of Ohio: Petition of Ladies of the Maccn Al o, petition of Lasalle County (Ill.) l\I~diCa1 Society, favor bee~ of the World, of Clinton, Ohio, for amendment of House in"' the pn..,snge of Senate bill G04D, creatmg a federal bureau bill 21321 favorably to fraternal publications as to po tul rates ot°public health, etc.-to the Committee on Interstate and For to the Committee on the Post-Oilice and Post-Roads. ejgn . Commerce. Also, petition of citizens of Ohio, favoring Senate bill 0!:>31- By Mr. GOULDEN: Petition of Tampa Harbor, No. 82 Amer to the Committee on Agriculture. ican As ociation of 1\la ters, Mates, and Pilots of Steam Vessels, Ry Mr. TOU VELLE: Petition of Lndies of the Maccabees for House bills 186. '.:! und 236 D-to tho Committee on tlle of the World, of St. Marys, Ohio, for amendment of Ilou e bill Mercllant Marine nnd Fii-beries. 21321 fayorably to fraternal publications as to postal rates Alflo, petition of Suburban Council, No. 1354, Royal Arcanum, to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Road . in re1ntion to fraternal publications-to the ComIDittce on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. Also, petition of Paget Sound Hurbor, No. 16, American A so SENATE. cintion of Mn ters, 1\Iates, and Pilots of Steam Vessels, for Hon · bill 23GS!:>-to the Committee on the l\fcrchant l\farine FnmaY, ll.fay 6, 1910. and JN heries. .Also, petition of Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, for Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. Ulysses G. Il. rierce, D. D . Senate bill 6702 and House bill 220GG, the boiler-inspection rBINCE TOKUGAWA, OF JAI'AN. bill-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. The VICE-PRESIDENT, having been accompanied by Prince JJy l\Ir. GRONNA: Petition of Stutsman County (N. Dnk.) Toknga wa, before taking the chair said: Mellical Society, for regulation of the trafllc in ho.bit-forming The Senate has as its guest this morning Prince Tokugawa, of drngs-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. Japan, president of the Hou e of Peers of that Empire. By Mr. HAl\11\IOND : Petition of Ladies of the Maccabees of The prince was given a scat on the right of the Vice-President. tlle World, of Madelia, Minn., for an amendment to post-office THE JOURN AL. bill, House bill 21321-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. By Mr. HIGGINS: Petition of IIurtford (Conn.) Central SILETZ INDIAN RESEB'\".A.TION, OREG. I~abor Union, against federal Interference with the city of Snn The VICE-PRESIDENT laid before the Senate the amendment Francisco in obtaining a wn.ter supply-to the Committee on the of the Ilouse of Representatives to the bill (S. 539) to author Public Lands. ize the sale of certain lands belonging to the Indians on the 5870 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. 1\lAY 6,
Siletz_ Indian Reservation, in the State of Oregon, which was H. R. 20658. An act for the relief of James O'Brien; to strike out all after the enacting clause and insert: . II. R. 21G36. An act to provide for the payment of the claims That the Secretary of the Interior be, and he is hereby authorized of the Roman Catholic Church of Zamboanga, in the Philippine to dispose of the lands reserved under the provisions of article 4 of the Islands; agreement concluded with the Indians of the Siletz Reservation on Ostober 31,1,. 1892, and ratified by the act of Congress approved August H. R. 23012. An act providing for the raising of the U. S. la, 1894 (~8 Stat. L., p. 325), at public auction, in such areas an<.l on battle ship Maine, in Habana Harbor, and to provide for the such terms and conditions as he may prescribe. interment of the bodies therein; and S~c .. 2. ~bat he is also authoriz~d to cause the lands reserved for ad~m1stre.tive purposes in connect10n with the affairs of the Siletz H. R. 23422. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Interior Indians and those reserved for educational and missionary purposes to to dispose of a fractional tract of land in the Lawton (Okla.) be surveyed, platted, appraised without considering any improvements district at appraised value. located thereon, and sold for . town lots or for such other purposes as he may deem advisable : Pro-r;idcd, That he shall reserve from sale any PETITIONS AND MEMORIALS. water-power sites that may be located on the lands so reserved: Pro vided further, That the lands contained in what ls commonly known .The VICE-PRESinENT presented a petition of the general as the gove~·nment farm, except so much as may be needed for offices conference of the Cenh·al :Methodist Episcopal Church, of Au and an Indian day school, shall be subdivided into small tracts not gusta, Ga., praying for tile enactment of legislation to reimburse exceeding 5 a~res for each said tract: And provilled further, That the 40 acres of said. government farm i;iearest the present government build the depositors of the Freedman's Saving and Trust Company, ings shall be laid out as a town site and be subdivided into town lots which was ordered to lie on the table. an<.l appraised or sold to highest bidder, without considering improve: l\fr. CULLOl\I presented a petition of the Merchants and ments located thereon, reserving to actual business men and actual residents the rights to buy the land upon which their respective build Business· Men's Association of Rockford, Ill., praying for the ings stand; and whenever any sale is made under this proviso, whereby repeal of the present oleomargarine law, which was referred to the lands in this proviso described shall be sold to a purchaser other the Committee on Agriculture and Forestry. than the owner of the bullding or buildings now located thereon the said owner shall have the right to sell said building or buildings to He also presented petitions of sundry citJ.zens of Chicago, Ill., ~~es~~ds~Jc~~~~r or to remove the same within th1·ee months from the praying for the passage of the so-called " boiler-inspection bill," which were referred to the Committee on Interstate Commerce. SEC. 3. That when such lands are surveyed and platted they shall be appraised and sold, except land reserved for water-power sites as pro Ile a1so presented a petition of Henderson Division, 1\o. 1, vided in section 2 of this act, under the provisions of the Revised National Society of the Women of the Civil War, of Dubuque, Statutes covering the sale of town sites located on the public domain. Iowa, praying for the enactment of legislation to establish a The proceeds derived from the sale of any lands as herein provided shall first be devoted to reimbursing the United States for the expenses in national organization known as the National Society of Women curred in carrying out the provisions of this act, and those derived of the Civil War, which was referred to the Committee on Mili from. the sale of the lands reserved for administrative, educational, and tary Affairs. mlss10nary purposes, after making the deductions as herein provided shall be used for the purpose of purchasing sites for day schools, erect~ He also presented a petition of the Medical Society of La i~~ ~~~~.ecessary buildings, and equipping, supporting, and maintaining Salle County, Ill., praying for the enactment of legislation to establish a national bureau of health, which was referred to the SEC. 4. That when the sales herein provided for have been made, patents shall issue from the United States to the purchas('rs of the Committee on Public Health and National Quarantine. tenor and legal effect of other patents for public lands disposed of undet• He also presented a petition of sundry members of the Ladies the public-land laws. And for the purpose of carrying out the provi of the Maccabees of the World, of Chicago, Ill., praying for the sions of this act there is hereby appropriated the sum of $3,000, to be reimbursed as herein provided. enactment of legislation providing for the admission of publica SEC. 5. That the lands heretofore or hereafter allotted, those retained tions of fraternal societies to the mails as second-class matter, reserved, or otherwise disposed of are hereby made sulljeet for a period which was referred to the Committee on Post-Offices and Post of twenty-five years to all the laws of the United States prohibiting the introduction of intoxicants into the Indian country. Roads. l\Ir. FRYE presented a petition of Saco River Grange, No. 488, Mr. CI!Aj\IBERLAIN. I move that the Senate concur in the Patrons of Husbandry, of Bar l\fills, Me., and a petition of House amendment. Auburn Grange, Patrons of Husbandry, of Auburn, 1.Ie., praying The motion was agreed to. that an appropriation be made for the extension of the work of MESSAGE FROM THE ROUSE. the Office of Public Roads, Department of Agriculture, which A message from the llouse of Representatives, by W. J. were refer:i;ed to tbe Committee on Agriculture and Forestry. Browning, its Chief Clerk, announced that the House had passed He also presented a memorial of Local Grange, Patrons of the bill ( S. 7981) a utborizing the connecting of a channel witll Husbandry, of East Madison, l\Ie., and a petition of Mount View Island End River, in Chelsea, Mass. Grange, Patrons of Husbandry, of Gilead, l\Ie., remonstrating The message also announced tbat the House had agreed to the against the repeal of the present oleomargarine law, which were amendments of the Senate to the joint resolution (II. J. Res. referred to the Committee on Agriculture and Forestry. 20G) to supply a deficiency in the appropriation for printing and He also presented a· memorial of the Theatrical Stage Em binding for the Treasury Department for the fiscal year 1910, ployees, of Portland, Me., remonstrating against the enactment und for other purposes. of legislation to revoke the rights of the city of San Francisco The message further announced that the House had disagreed to the use of the drainage basin of the Tuolumne River in Cali· to the amendment of the Senate to the bill (H. R. 20578) makin;; fornia, for a water supply for its homes and industri~s, which appropriation for the payment of invalid antl other pensions of was referred to the Committee on the Geological Survey. the United States for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1011, and .Mr. PERKINS. I pre ent telegrams in tbe nature of memo for other purposes; ask~d a conference with the Senate on the rials relative to the witildrawal of oil lands. I ask that the diimgreeing votes of the two Houses thereon, and had appointed telegrams lie on the table and be printed in the REconD. Mr. KEIFER, l\Ir. SNAPP, and l\lr. KELIHER managers at the con There being no objection, the telegrams were ordered to lie ference on the part of the House. on the table and be printed in the RECORD, as follows: DAKEilSFIELD, CAL., May B, 1910. ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. Hon. GJiJORGE C. PEIIKIYS, The message also announced that the Speaker of the House United States Senate, Washington, D. 0.: I join with other Kern County oil producers in asking oppol'litlon to hall signed tile following enrolled bills, and they were thereupou pending Nelson bill until California protest can be heard. Humboldt sicrned by the Yice-President: County is also vitally affected. S. 21 0. An act to amend sections 1, 2, and 3 of chapter 3208, Yours, F. H. l\h!\OR. Thirty-fonrth United. States Statutes at Large, with reference to the drainage of certain Indian lands in Richardson County, FRESNO, CAL., May s, 1910. Ilon. GEORGE c. PERKINS, Nebr.; · United States Senate, Washington, D. O.: H. R. 6035. An act for the relief of the Merchants' National Fresno County Chamber of Commerce requests thnt you use every in Bank of Poughkeepsie, N. Y. ; fluence to postpone action on Pickett bill withdrawino- oil lands until al'l'lval in Washington of California delegation. "' H. R.16367. An act to repeal section 860 of the Revised Stat FRES~O COUNTY CHA!l!BER OF COll!IIERCE, utes; A. L. HOBBS, Presideiit. II. R. 16684. An act for the relief of James Ovens; H. R. 18~49. An act for the relief of the estate of John H. COALINGA, CAL., M av !, 1910. Fitzlrngh; Hon. GEORGE c. PERKINS, II. R. 18848. An act for the relief of Joseph S. Oakley · United States Senate, Washington, D. O.: California. committee in proteflt Pickett withdrawal bill IeaTe for H. Il.1903 . An act to authorize the opening of a ro~d along Washington with data May 6. !'lease recommit bill to committee and the Anacoi-;tia River in the District of Columbia; give them bearing. Oil can not be conserved lllcc coal. Patented land H. R. 20~06. A.n act to perfect the title to certain lands to the owners continue operations, thus depleting pools at small operators' nnd government expense. California asks IJenring a.t your hands. heirs of Henry Hyer and his wife, Julia Hyer, deceased, and COALINGA. CH.Hll3E!l. OF COMMERCJD, for other puri1oses ; u. L. PEELEU, President. --..._
1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 5871
CoALrNGA, CAL., May 2... 1910. and tnjury to the on industry o:t the- Stat.a; that this meeting requests Senator GEORGE C. PERKINS, all California Representatives in Washington to make every effort to delay Senate Chamber, WU, f \ \ 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. '5873 PENSION APPROPRIATION BILL. Affairs with an amendment to strike out all after the enacting The VICE-PRESIDENT laid before the Senate the action of clause and to insert: That the roll of the Crow tribe of Indians as shown by the records the House of Representatives disagreeing to the amendments of of the United States in the office of the United States Indian superin the Senate to the bill (H. R. 20578) making appropriations for tendent and special disbursing agent at the Crow Agency, in the State of the payment of invalid and other pensions of the United States Montana, as it existed on the 1st day of January, 1910, be, and the same hereby is, declared to be the roll of said tribe and to constitute for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1911, and for other purposes, the legal membership thereof upon which division of lands and funds and requesting a conference with the Senate on the disagreeing of the Crow tribe shall take place, such names, however, to be added to votes of the two Houses thereon. said roll as will include within the membership, civil and property, of the Crow tribe those children who may be born to enrolled members of Mr. SCOTT. I move that the Senate insist on its amendments the tribe between January 1, 1910, and March 1, 1911 : Provided, how and agree to the conference asked by the House, and that the ever{ That the Secretary of the Interior may, on or before March 1, Chair appoint the conferees on the part of the Senate. 191 , add to said rolls the name of any member of the Crow tribe of Indians whose name has been inadvertently omitted from the same. The motion was agreed to, and the Vice-President appointed Proof of birth of new-born children shall be made to the United States l\fr. BURNHAM, Mr. SMOOT, and Mr. TAYLOR the conferees on superintendent and disbursing agent for the Crows, and his decision as the part of the Senate. to right to membership in the tribe shall be final, subject only to appeal to the Secretary of the Interior. Such names, if any, as may be found THE CALENDAR. to be on said rolls through fraud may at any time within three years from the passage of this act be stricken therefrom after hearing by the The VICE-PRESIDENT. If there be no further morning Indian superintendent and special disbursing agent at the Crow Agency, with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. business, that order is closed, and the calendar under Rule SEC. 2. That the Secretary of the Interior be; and he is hereby, di VIII is in order. rected to immediately cause to be surveyed all the unsurveyed land .M:r. KEAN. Mr. President, let the first eight bills on the embraced within t..he limits of the Crow Indian Reservation, in the State of Montana. There shall be reserved from allotment for the period of calendar be passed over. twenty-five years from the date of approval of this act such timbered The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Secretary will state the bills areas on the Pryor, Big Horn, and Wolf mountains as the Secretary of by number. the Interior shall designate as necessary to be reserved for the common benefit of the Crow tribe for forestry or water-conservation purposes, The SECRETARY. Senate bill 3724, Senate bill 1630, House but such lands may be· leased for mineral purposes as bereinafter pro bill 12316, Senate bill 5715, House joint resolution 116, Senate vided. Tbe lands not reserved shall be divided among the members of bill 6737, House bill 18166, and House bill 20370. the Crow tribe of Indians, as follows : First. Tbe Secretary of the Interior shall cause allotments to be made The VICE-PRESIDENT. On objection of the Senator from to all persons or in the name of all persons wbo are declared by sec New Jersey [Mr. KEAN], all of those bills will be passed over. tion 1 of tbis act to be entitled to membership in tbe Crow tribe o! Mr. KEAN. I do not know whether any Senator objects to Indians, said allotments to be so made as to give to each of sucb persons not heretofore allotted to any person wbose former allotment does not the next bill on the calendar, being the bill ( S. 3528) to reim equal his present right as head of a family, allotments of land equal to burse the depositors of the Freedman's Savings and Trust Com the allotments beretofore made to otber members of tbe Crow tribe, pany. Personally I am in favor of that bill. so that each person. prior to the division of tbe remainder of the Crow • Reservation, shall receive such quantity of land as will make his or her Mr. OVERl\IAN. Let that bill go over, Mr. President. allotment equal to tbat of every otber person of the same station who The VICE-PRESIDENT. The bill goes over. has been allotted beretofore. The next bill on the calendar was the bill (S. 7132) for the That after allotments bave been made as hereinbefore provided to all persons entitled thereto who have not heretvfore received allotments of relief of the estate of Frederick P. Crow. land, then eacb member of said tribe as shown by the roll of member Mr. SMOOT. I ask that that bill go over. ship made up as herein provided shall be permitted to select, ln addition The VICE-PRESIDENT. The bill goes over. to the allotment already received, 160 acres of land from the remainder of the C1·ow Reservation as a first selection. Adult members of the The bill (H. R. 18403) to repeal a portion of section 429 of tribe shall make their first selections and file notice of the same with the Revised Statutes of the United States was announced as the United States Indian agent for the Crow tribe within three months next in order. after the selection of the allotments above provided for. First selec tions for minors having parents may be made by said parents, the word Mr. SMOOT. Let that bill go over, Mr. President. "minor" to be construed according to the laws of the State of Mon The VICE-PRESIDENT. The bill goes over on the objec tana. Selections or allotments of land for orphan minors and for in competents, and for any member who fails, refuses, or is unable to make tion of the Senator from Utah. selection of his allotment within the time prescribed therefor as afore The bill (S. 3904) for the relief of the Merritt & Chapman said. shall be made for said minor, incompetent, or other party entitled, by the United States supe1·intendent and disbursing agent for the Crows, .Wrecking Company was announced as next in order. subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. The order in Mr. Sl\IOOT. I ask that that bill go over. which members shall be entitled to make their several selections of land The VICE-PRESIDENT. The bill goes over. shall be determined by lot by the commission herein provided for at least thirty days prior to the date for beginning each successive selection. The bill (S. 1013) for the relief of David W. Stockstill was Second. After each member has selected or there has been selected announced as next in order. for him, his or her original allotment and his or her first selection as Mr. SMOOT. I ask that that bill go over. herein provided, second selections shall be made of 160 acres of land in the manner he1·ein provided for the first selection, and thereafter The VICE-PRESIDENT. The bill goes over. other sections of land of the amount of 160 acres each shall be made in the same manner as provided for the first selections until there re LEGAL REPRESENTATIVES OF NAPOLEON B. GIDDINGS. mains less land than sufficient to permit the selection of 160 acres for The bill ( S. 6583) for the relief of the legal representatives each membe1· of the Crow tribe, whereupon the remainin~ surplus land shall be allotted to the tribal members equally as nearly as may be, of Napoleon B. Giddings was considered as in Committee of the by the commission hereinafter provided for to supervise the selection Whole. It directs the Secretary of War to cause to be investi and division of the lands of the Crow tribe. 'l'hird. All selections herein provided for shall conform to the exist gated the circumstances of the alleged tak_ing from Napoleon B. ing public surveys in tracts of not less than 40 acres or a legal subdi Giddings, in January, 1847, at Santa Fe, N. Mex., and deposit vision of a less amount designated by a "lot,'' except that in the final ing with A. n. Dyer, lieutenant of ordnance, United States division of the land left over after selections by the tribal members the same may be divided pro rata in such manner as the Secretary of the Army, by order of Sterling Price, colonel commanding the army Interior by rules and regulations may prescribe. in New Mexico at that time, of 140 kegs of gunpowder, and to Fourth. Each member. of the Crow tribe shall designate 160 acres of ascertain and determine the reasonable market value of the land as his or her homestead, except those already allotted under pre vious laws, whose homestead shall remain as now provided by law. powder at that time and ...place, and whether the same, or any The homestead, where practicable, shall include not less than 40 acres part thereof, was ever returned or delivered back to said Gid of land under irrigation, and the homestead herein provided for shall dings, and the final disposition of the powder; and if the same, be inalienable and nontaxable for the period of twenty-five years from or any part thereof, was never returned to or delivered back, the date of the approval of this act. The land of each member not designated as a homestead shall be designated and known as " surplus then to certify to the Secretary of the Treasury the amount of land" and shall be taxable under the laws of the State of Montana from the reasonable market value at that time and place of the and after three years from the date of the approval of this act and powder which was never returned or delivered back; and it shall be alienable as provided for herein and not otherwise. Fifth. The selection and division of lands herein provided for shall be dil·ects the Secretary of the Treasury to cause to be paid to the made under the supervision of or by a commission consisting of one legal representatives of Napoleon B. Giddings the amount so member of the Crow tribe to be selected by a majority vote of three certified by the Secretary of War to be the reasonable market dele ~ates from each of the five districts comprising the Crow tribe of Indians, one member to be selected by the Commissioner of Indian value of such powder. Affairs, subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior, and the The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, or third member shall be the superintendent and disbursing agent for the Crows. Sa.id commission shall settle all controversies between members dered to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, of the tribe relative to allotments or selections of land as provided for and passed. · herein. Said commission shall prepare schedules of said allotments and selections and division of lands herein provided for, and the same upon LA.NDS AND FUNDS OF CROW INDIANS IN MONTANA. approval by the Secretary of the Interior shall vest right, title, and interest in said lands, except the coal, oil, and gas contained therein, in The bill (S. 6995) for the division of the lands and funds the person named in said schedules in fee simple, the surplus land to be of the Crow tribe of Indians in the State of Montana, and for alienable, as hereinafter provided, from the date of approval by the in Secretary of the Interior of said allotment schedules. Patents in f€e other purposes, was considered as Committee of the Whole. shall thereafter be executed for said lands by the President and recorded The bill had been reported from the Committee on Indian in the office of the clerk and recorder in the county· in which such lands XIV-368 -- 5874 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. MAY 8, nre situated and in the books of land records to be kept at the Crow kin, may sell, under .such rules and regulations as he may prescribe, part Agency for public inspection and at the General Land Office. Separate or all of the surplus lands of such allottee. The allottee's consent, how patents shall be executed for the homestead and for surplus lands. ever, to accept the price ofi'ered shall be secured in writing. Such sales The Secretary of the Interior is authorized to fix the salaries of the for a period of ten years from the date of the approval of this act shall members of said commission, including a special allowance to the agent be made to actual settlers only. Such sales shall be made for all cash for service as commissioner in addition to bis salary as agent, and of or a down payment of not less than 20 per cent of the sale price of other employees nece sary to carry out the work of allotment of the such lands, the balance to be secured by purchase money mortgage, pay Crow Reservation herein provided for, said salaries and the cost of all able in ten equal payments, payments to be ma de in one, two, three, surveys and of all other proper expenses necessary for the allotment fonr, five, six, seven, eight, nine, and ten years, with inte1·est at the selectJon, and divi Ion of land as herein provided for to be paid by the rate of 6 per cent per annum, but with the privilege in the purchaser Secretary of the Interior out of any moneys in the Treasury of the to anticipate deferred payments. The lands sold shall be subject to United States belonging to the said Crow Indians. ta.xation from the date of sale, or earlier, as otherwise provided for SEC. 3. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized and herein. The allottee, upon sale of his or her lands, if an adult and not directed to issue s. patent in fee to the duly authorized missionary mentally unsound, shall receive 50 per cent of the cash or down pay board, or other proper authority in whom the same may be lawfully ment for his own use and benefit and the improvement of his homestead vested, of any religious or,1?anizat ion heretofore engaged in mission or or otherwise, as he may determine, and shal receive the interest on de school work on the Crow Reservation for lands thereon· not exceeding ferred payments as the same may become due and payable. One-half 160 acres :for any one such religious organization: P1·01lided, That of the remainder of the selling price, when collected, shall be pa id to there is hereby granted to the Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions the the allottee and the balance shall be added to the segregated funds of following-described land on said reservation, now and for many years the allottee in the Treasury of the United States and draw interest at reserved for and occupied by the Catholic Church for mission and school 4 per cent per annum, interest on the same to be paid the allottee semi purpo es: East half southwest quarter and west hal! southeast quarter annually as herein provided with respect to his segregated funds: Pro of section 23, town hip 4 south, range 32 east, containing about 160 t:ided, however, That should any allottee faU to pay taxes when due, acres, together with a tract of land containing 1 acre, mo.re or less the Secretary of the Interior shall withhold from such tribal memb r a beginning at a point 3. 75 chat.ns west of the center of section 1, town: sufficient amount of interest to pay the overdue taxes : Provided fur ther, ship 3 south, range 34 east; thence north 5.51 chat.ns to a point· That in the case of minors and others mentally incompetent the pay thence north 3 chains ; thence 3.33 chains west ; thenoo south 3 chat.ns ; ments provided for herein may be made to the parents or other next of thence east 3.33 chains to point of beginning of section 1, township 3 kin, to be expended for the benefit of t,he minor, or the Commissioner of south, range 34 east. Indian Afi'at.rs may provide otherwise for their expenditure as in his The commission herein provided for is also authorized to set apart judgment may be for the best t.nterest of such minor or incompetent i:mch lands as may be necessary for a~ency or school purposes on the member. Crow Reservation, and the lands so des1gnated Are hereby reserved from Third. When any tribal member becomes, in the judgment of the Sec allotment or selection. retary of the Interior. fully competent to transact his or her business, the ~focretary 01' the Treasury t.s hereby authorized and directed, upon SEC. 4. That there is also reserved from allotment sections 16 and 36 certificate of the Secretary of the Interior and upon proper receipt by of each township, which lands are hereby {rranted to the State of Mon the tribal member, to turn over to such tribal member all the segre tana tor school purposes, and t.n case either of said sections or any gated funds in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of such parts thereof are lost to the State by reason of an allotment thereof to individual tribal member. any Indian or Indians, or in the event said sections or any parts thereof SEC. 8. That all funds belonging to the Crow tribe, and all moneys are otherwise lost to the State, the governor of said State, with the ap due on any account whatsoever, and all moneys that may become due proval of the Secretary of the Interior1 is hereby authorized to select or hereafter may be found to be due the Crow tribe, shall be held in other unoccupied, unreserved lands within said reservation, not ex trust by the United States and draw t.nterest at the rate of 4 per cent ceeding, however, 2 sections for each township within the reservation, per annum for the period of twenty-five years from and after the date which selections must be made by the State of Montana within ninety of the approval of this act, subject, however, to the following condi • days after notification of its right to select lands hereunder, said noti tions and limitations : fication to be given by the Secretary of the Interior: Provided, how First. That all the funds now belonging, due, or to become due to et·er, That the United States shall pay to the Crow Indians for the the Crow tribe after all proper expenses are paid and after paying 15 lands in said sections 16 and 36 so granted, or lands selected t.n lieu per annum to each enrolled member of the Crow tribe, or so much thereof, the sum of $1.25 per acre. thereof as the interest on said funds will permit, shall be accumulated SEC. 5. That the allotments provided for herein, except in case of until a fund of $~,000,000 is created as a Crow tribal fund. Th in selections heretofore made and recorded, shall not pass title to the coal, come of the Crow tribal fund afore aid shall be used in the ma inte oil, or gas covered by said lands until twenty-five years from the date of nance of the system or irrigation ditches on the Crow Reservation until the approval of this act. For said period of twenty-five years from the otherwise provided by law. date of the approval of this act all coal, oll, or ~s as herein provided Second. After the creation of the aforesaid million-dollar fund all re· are reserved to the use of the tribe. The sum of $3,000 Is hereby appro maining funds due or which may become due to the Crow tribe shall be p,riated, the same to be immediately available, out of the funds in the segregated as soon as practicable and placed to the credit or the l.ndivld Treasury of the United States belonging to the said Crow Indians, for ual members of said tribe on a basis of a pro rata division of the ame the purpose of an examination and report by the United States Geolog amon"' the members of said trl.be as shown by the authorized roll 01' ical Survey upon the mineral resources of the Crow Reservation. The membership as herein provided for and said credit shall draw interest Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to lease for a period of at 4 per cent per annum. The int:erest1 that may accrue thereon shall not to exceed fifteen years and in area not to exceed 2,560 acres to any be paid semiannually to the members entitled thereto, except in the person, association, or corporation under regulations to be prescn"bed by case of minors or I?ersons mentally t.ncompetent, in which case the him and on such terms and conditions as In his discretion may be interest shall be paid semiannually to the parents, or in default of proper, the right to take coal, oil, or gas from any land on the Crow parents to the next of kin male adult of the minor or person mentally Reservation. The royalty received on account of such leases shall be incompetent until said minor arrives at the a~e of 21 yea.rs, or during turned into the Treasury of the United States and placed to the credit the period of mental disability: Provided, That t.f the Commissioner of the Crow Indians, to be disbursed therefrom the same a.s other funds of Indian Afi'airs becomes sati fied that the said interest of any minor of the Crow Indians. Provision shall be made in all leases :for com or person mentally incompetent is being misused or squandered he may pensation to the owner of the surface for any damage thereto or loss of withhold the payment of such t.nterest or otherwise direct its payment nse and occupation of the surface by reason of mineral leases granted and the use thereof. · as herein provided, said compensation to be fixed by the Secretary of the SEC. 9. That the lands of deceased Crow allottees, unless the heirs Interior under rules and regulations to be prescribed by him. At the agree as to partition of the same, shall be sold in the discretion of the expiration o! twenty-five yes.rs from the date of approval of this act the Secretary of the Interior in accordance with the laws of the State of coal, oil, or gas upon or beneath the surface of said allotted lands shall Montana, under rules and regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary become the property of the individual allottee or his heirs or assigns. of the Interior. Where all the bet.rs have been given certificates of SEC. 6. That the commt.sslon herein provided for, prior to the making competency they may make sale of such t.nherited lands without super of any allotment or selection, shall set apart, under rules and regula vision. Where all or part of the heirs are minors or have not been tions to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Interior, such lands as given certificates of competency the sales shall be made under direction may be needed for .town-site purposes, not to exceed, however, 320 acres of the Secretary of the Interior as hereinbefore provided. Competent for any one town site. Ten acres of land shall be reserved in each of bet.rs shall be given thet.r shares of the proceeds of sales of inherited the six districts of the Crow Reservation for cemetery purposes, which lands and the proceeds due Dlinor heirs and those heirs not deemed said lands shall not be taxable. Said town sites shall be surveyed into competent to fully transact their own business shall be disposed of blocks and lots and the same shall be sold on such terms and conditions as provided t.n this act with respect to the sale of surplus lands or such as the Secretary of the Interior shall prescribe. Said comml.ssion shall persons. That the descent of property of Crow allottees shall be as set apart such land In each town site for schools, parks, and other pub provided for in the laws of the State of Montana. lic purposes as t.n its judgment may be necessary, subject, however, to SEC. 10. That the provisions of article 2 of the act approved April approval by the Secretary 01' the Interior. The proceeds arising from 27, 1904, entitled "An act to ratify and amend an agreement with the the sale of lands :for town-site purposes shall be tu.med into the Treas Indians of the Crow Reservation in Montana, and making appropria ury of the United States as a part of the funds of the Crow tribe of tions to carry the same into effect," be, and the same hereby are, Indians: Pro'Videil, ho1cever, That 20 per cent of such proceeds shall be amended so as to repeal so much of said act as has not been heretofore used for the erection of school buildings or other necessary public build carried into etf'ect, directing the specific disposition of the proceeds ings t.n each town site. Wherever practicable, children of members of of the sale of the lands therein mentioned and directed to be sold under the Crow tribe shall attend these schools to be estabUshed at town sites the provisions of the act aforesaid, and that ail the funds provided by on the Crow Reservation. said article not heretofore specifically disposed of be.1 and the same SEC. 7. The surplus lands shall be allenable as follows: hereby are, directed to be turned into and form part or the Crow fund First. Upon petition and showing of any adult member of the Crow of a million dollars herein provided for. tribe the Secretary of the Interior, whenever in his judgment such per SEC. 11. That the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to son ls competent to transact his own business, may issue to such mem set apart and reserve the site known as the Reno battlefield, and to ber a certificate authort.zing him to sell and convey all his surplus lands ; pay the Crow tribe $1.25 per acre. or, when the Secretary of the Interior deems such member not fully SEC. 12. That there is hereby appropriated, out of any money in the qualified to dispose of bis entire surplus, he may issue to such member a Treasury not otherwise appropriated, the sum of $170,000, or so much certificate authorizing him to sell only certain designated parts of the thereof as may be necessary, to pay for the lands granted to the State surplus land allotted to him under the provisions of this act, except his of Montana and for lands reserved for agency and school pITTposes, at homestead, which homestead shall remain inalienable and nontaxable, the rate of $1.25 per acre; also there is hereby appropriated and set except as herein otherwise provided. '1.'he certificates provided for aside out of the tribal funds of the said Crow Indians now held in he1·eln shall be recorded, with the date of the Secretary's approval the Treasury of the United States the sum of $75,000, or so much thereon, In the land records t.n the office of the clerk and recorder of thereof as may be necessary, to be immediately available, to enable the the county in which such lands are situated, at the Crow Agency,. and Secretary of the Interior to survey and allot the lands in said reserva at the General Land Office at Washington. · tion as provided herein, to defray the expense of the survey of town Second. Whenever, in the opinion of the Secretary of the Interior, any sites and any other expenses that may arise in carrying out the tribal member is not competent to transact without supervision his own provisions of this act. afialrs and make di position personally of all or a designated part of SEC. 13. The Secretary of the Interior may, t.n his discretion, and he his surplus holding , the said Secretary, upon application of the allottee is hereby authorized whenever he shall be satisfied that any Crow Indian a nd, If a minor or mentally disabled, of his parents or other next of a.llottee is competent and capable of managing his or her affairs at any 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE. 5875 time to cause to be Issued to such allottee a patent in fee simple to .Mr. STONE. I move to amend further by striking out, in the lands designated bereinbefore as his or her homestead, and there after all restrictions as to sale, lncumbrance, or taxation of said land line 22, on page 21, the first word, " to," and in lieu thereof to shall be removed and said land embraced within said nllottee's home insert the word " shall." stead shall not be liable to the satisfaction of any debt contracted prior The VICE-PRESIDENT. The amendment to the amendment to the issuing of such patent: Provided further, That when patent ln -fee simple to said homestead lands shall so be issued to said Crow will be stated. Indian allottee, then such allottee shall have the benefit of and be sub The SECRETARY. On page 21, section 2, line 22, strike out the ject to the laws, both civil and criminal, of the State of Montana, and is hereby declared to be a citizen of the United States and entitled to first word in the line, the word "to," and in lieu thereof inseri all the rights, privileges, and immunities of such citizens, without In the word u shall." any manner Impairing or otherwise affecting the right of any such al The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. lottee to tribal or other property: And provided further, Tliat until the issuance of fee simple patent to bis or her homestead all allottees shall Mr. STONE. I move to amend further by inserting after the be subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States. word " allotted," in line 23, page 21, a comma and the word Mr. STONE. I offer an amendment to the amendment, which "and." I send to the desk. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The amendment to the amendment The VICE-PRESIDENT. The amendment to the amendment will be stated.. proposed by the Senator from Missouri will be stated. The SECRETARY. After the word " allotted.," on page 21, sec The SECRETARY. On page 20, line 16, after the date "1911," it tion 2, line 23, the first word in the line, it is proposed to insert is proposed to strike out: a comma and the word " and." Pro11ided, however, That the Secretary of the Interior may, on or The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. before March 1, 1911, add to said rolls the name of any member of Mr. STONE. I offer the amendment which I send to the the Crow tribe of Indians whose name has been inadvertently omitted desk. from the same-- The VICE-PRESIDENT. The amendment to the amendment And insert : will be stated. Pt·ovi(led, That the commission hereinafter named shall examine the The SECRETARY. On page 22, section 2, line 5, after the word said roll made up by said superintendent and special disbursing agent "heretofore," the last word in the line, it is proposed to strike at the Crow Agency, and are hereby authorized and directed, with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior, to strike from said roll the out the period and insert a colon and the following words: name or na mes of any person or persons thereon, if any, who are not Pro1 ~ ided, That nothing herein shall be construed to authorize any members of the Crow tribe of Indians and entitled to be on said roll · disturbance of allotments heretofore made to members of said tribe and said commission, with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior' under any act of Congress. may also add to said rolls the name of any member of the Crow tribe of Indians whose name bas been omitted therefrom, but who is entitled So as to read : to be enrolled thereon ; and all such subtractions and additions to said First. The Secretary of the Interior shall cause allotments to be rolls shall be made on or before March 1, 1911, so that said roll shall be made to all "persons or in tbe name of all persons who are declared by completed by that date. section 1 of this act to be entitled to membership in the Crow tribe of Indians, and said allotments shall be so made as to give to each of Mr. PAGE." Mr. President, on behalf of the committee I ac such. p€' rsons not heretofore allotted, and to any person whose former cept the amendment to the amendment proposed by the Senator allotment does not equal his present right as bead of a family, allot ments of land equal to the allotments herHofore made to other mem from Missouri [Mr. STONE]. · bers of tbe Crow tribe, so that each person, prior to the division of The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. tbe remainder of the Crow Reservation, shall receive such quantity of Mr. STONE. I offer the amendment to the amendment which land as will make his or her allotment equal to that of every other person of the same station who has been allotted heretofore: Provided, I send to the desk. T hat nothing herein shall be construed to authorize any disturbance The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Secretary will state the amend of allotments heretofore made to members of said tribe under any act ment offered by the Senator from Missouri to the amendment of of Congi;-ess. the committee. . The amendment to the amendment was a.greed to. The SECRETARY. On page 20, in the committee amendment, Mr. .STONE. I propose the amendment I send to the desk. section 1, lines 23 and 24, it is proposed to strike out " final, The SECRETARY. On page 30, line 8, after the word " lands," subject only to appeal to the Secretary of the Interior,'' and in strike out the semicolon and insert a period, and strike out lieu thereof to insert "submitted to the said commission herein words immediately following : provided for and subject to the approval thereof; but any per Or when the Secretary of the Interior deems such member not fully son who may be denied the right to membership in the tribe by qualified to dispose of his entire surplus he may issue to such member a certificate authorizing bim to sell only certain designated parts of said commission may through his or her parent, next of kin, or the surplus land allotted to him under the provisions of this act, ex guardian, within ninety days after the decision of the com cept bis homestead, which homestead shall remain inalienable and non mission, appeal therefrom to the Secretary of the Interior," so taxable, except as herein otherwise provided. as to read: The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. Proof of birth of new-born children shall be made to the United Mr. DIXON. I propose the amendment I send to the desk. States superintendent and disbursing agent for the Crows, and his de The SECRETARY. On page 33, line 11, after the word " reser- cision as to right to membership in the tribe sball be submitted to t ie said co..nmisslon herein provided for and subject to the approval tl ereof, vation," it is proposed to insert "and the education and civiliza but any person wbo may be denied the right to membership in t he tion of said Indians," so as to read: tribe by said commission may, through his or her parent, next of kin The income of the Crow tribal fund aforesaid shall be used in the or guardian, within ninety days after the decision of the commission; maintenance of tbe system of irrigation ditches on the Crow Reserva appeal therefrom to the Secretary of the Interior. tion and the education and civilization of said Indians until otherwise The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. provided by law. l\fr. STONE. I offer the amendment to section 1,· which I The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. send to the desk. The amendment as amended was agreed to. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The amendment to the amendment l\Ir. HEYBURN. l\Ir. President, I desire to call attention at· will be stated. this time to the phraseology that has been running through a The SECRETARY. On page 21, section 1, line 2, after the word number of bills of this class, where we declare in express terms "therefrom," it is proposed to strike out "after hearing by the that an Indian shall be a citizen of the United States, pos Indian superintendent and special disbursing agent at the sessed of all the rights of citizenship, and then in the same in Crow Agency with the approval of the Secretary of the In str~ 1 ruent undertake to limit the scope of his citizenship. terior," and in lieu thereof to insert " by the Secretary of the That certainly can not be done. There are no grades of citi Interior on the rec9mmendation of the Indian superintendent zenship in the United States. . If a man is a citizen, we can and special disbursing agent at the Crow Agency and after place no limitation upon that citizenship which is not equally hearing," _so as to read : applicable to every other citizen. I do not intend to take up Such names, if any, as may be found to be on said rolls throug-h th.e question for further consideration at this time, but I merely fraud may at any time within three years from the passage of this desired to call attention to it, so that in the . RECORD it will act be rtricken therefrom by the Secretary of the Interior on the recom appear that we did not lose sight of the fact that we can not menda·l\on of the .Indian superintendent and special disbursing agent create grades of citizenship under the Constitution of the United at the Crow Agency and after hearing. States. The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. Mr. DIXON. I think we an agree with the remarks of the l\fr. STONE. l\Ir. President, I move to further amend the Senator from Idaho, but he has misinterpreted the reading of amendment as follows : After the word " Indians " and the the bill. The bil1 follows the' wording of the Burke Act. It con commn on line 21, page 21, insert the word " and." fers citizenship whenever the Indian becomes emancipated and · The VICE-PRESIDENT. The amendment to the an1endment receives title in fee simple, and then it contains a provision that will be stated. · until he has recetved his title in fee simple he is subject to the The SECRETARY. On page 21, section 2, line 21, before the jurisdiction of the United States. words " said allotments," insert the word " and." Mr. HEYBURN. I understand. The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. Mr. DIXON. · There is no grade of citizenship. 5876 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. MAY 6, Mr. IIEYBUilR I was not attacking the bill, but I wanted I.'MMIGRATION STAll.'ION, iG.ALVESTON, ~. the RECORD to show my views on the subject. The bill (H. R. 20988) ..authorizing the SecTe.tary of Commerce The bill was reported to the Senate as a.mended, and the a.nd Labor to construct a ater main and electric cable -across amen.dme.nt was concurred 1n. Galveston Channel to furnish water and light to the immigra The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third -:reading, read tion station was considered as .in Committee of the Whole. rt the third time, '3.Ild passed. • provides that to supply the immigration and life-sating stations CITY OF .CRAWFORD, NEBR. at Galveston, Tex., with fresh water, tights., and other electric ccmvenien(!es, the Secretary of Oomm.erce and Labor is authOT The bill ( S. 5319) to appropriate $50,000 to the city of Craw ford, in the State of Nebraska, was announced as the next bill ized to ca.use to be constructed across GaJveston Channel -a on the ealendal'. water main and sneh .suitable elect.rte cable or cables as may be deemed n.ec:essary, at-a c.ost not to exceed the sum of $20;000~ Mr. SMOOT. Task that that bill go over. and he is authorized to receive from the city of Galveston The VIOE-PRESIDEKT. The bill goes over, on the request $10,000, to be applied to the purposes of the bill. of the Senator from Utah. l\fr. BAILEY. I desire to move to 'amend the bill by fixing TAX ON TELEGRAPH COMPANIES IN THE DISTRICT, thE> limit at $21,000 instead -Of $20,000. When the bill passed The bill { H. R. 22390) to amend paragraph 5 of section 6 of the House the impression was that the ~ost would be between the act of Congress approved July~. 1902, entitled "An act ma.k $19,000 and $20,000; but it now transpires th t the cost will be ing appropriations to provide for the expenses of the goveTn between $20~000 and .$21,000, and 1n lieu of ".$20,0.00 " I desire ment of the District of Oo1umbia for the fiscal year ending June to substitute " $21,000." 30, 1903, and for other pm·poses," so a.s to require all companies The VICE-PRESIDENT. The Secretary will state the ·amend doing telegraph business in the District of Columbia to pay a ment proposed by the Senator from Texas. tax on their gross receipts, was considered as in Committee of The SECRETARY. On page 1, line 10, after the word" twenty," the Whole. insert the word "one," so that it ;will read; The bill had been reported from the Committee on the District Not to exceed the sum of $21,-000. of Columbia with an amendment, to strike out all after the The amendment was .a.greed to. enacting clause and insert : Mr. BURKETT. I should like to ask the Senator from That all companies doing a telegraph business m the District of Texas what is the object of the $10~000 contribution referred to Columbia, through their proper officers, shall make affidavit to the board in the .bill. of personal tax assessors on or before the 1st day of August of each year · Mr. BAILEY. I do not haJJpen to have a copy of the bill as to the amount of their gross earnin~s on business trallil(lcted within the District of Columbia for the precedmg year ending the 30th day of before me; but-- J"une, and shall pay to the collector <>f taxes <>f the District of Columbia Mr. BURKETT. Neither do I have it on my file. I merely per annum, on such gross earnings 4 -per cent. ' heard if read. · The -amendment was agreed to. Mr. KEAN. The Secretary of Commerce and Labor is enti The bill was reported° to the Senate as amended, and the tled to receive the $10,000 and apply it to the construction of amendment was .concurred in. this water main. The amendment was .ordered to be engrossed .and the bill to Mr. BURKETT. Is it a joint undertaking? be read a third time. Mr. KEAN. It is a proposition to take water which bel-0ngs The bill was read the third time and passed. to the city of Galvesron .across to the immigration station. The title was amended so as to read: "A bill to reqniTe all l\Ir. BURKETT. I undeTsta.nd that. companies doing a telegraph business in the District of Colum Mr. KEAN. And the Government of the United States is bia to pay a tax -0n their gross earnings." going to pay for it. .Mr. BURKETT. What is the meaning of the pwvision for RETIBEMENT OF NAVAL OFFICERS. receiving $10,000 from the city of GaJveston? The bill ( S. 4746) to extend certain provisions of section 3 of Mr. BAILEY. It is simply the city's contribution to the the act of October 1, 1890, to officers of the United States Navy work in consideration for certain privileges. was .considered as in Committee of the Whole. It provides that 111r. BURKETT. Is it a joint water main? hereafter if any officer of the United States Navy shall fail in l\1r. BAILEY. lt may become so. his physical examination for promotion and be found incapaci Mr. BURKETT. And the .city is interested in it! tated for service by reason of physical disability contracted in Mr. KEAN. The city gives $10,000~ line of duty he shall be retired with the rank to which his Mr. BAILEY. To be used for construction purposes. seniority entitled him to .be pro.t;noted. The VICE-PRESIDENT. The guestion is on agreeing to the The bill was reported to the Senate without runendment, -or amendment of tbe Senator from Texas. dered to be engrossed f-Or a third reading, read the third time, The amendment was agreed ·to. and passed. ·The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the Mr. KEAN. I ask that the report -0f the Committee on Naval amendment was concurred in. Affairs in connection with the report be pTinted. The amendment was ordered t-0 !be engrossed and the bill to The VICE-PRESIDENT. Without objection, the report on be read a third time. the bill just passed will be printed in the RECORD. The bill was read the third time and passed~ The report submitted by l\lr. PERKINS Apr'il 13, 1910, is as ADULTERATED P .AINTS, "ETC. follows: The bill (S. 1130) for preventing the manufacture, sa1e, or The Committee on Naval Atfafrs, to whom was referred Senate bill transportation of adnlteTated or mislabeled paint, turpentine, 474G, submit the following report: The -consideration recognized and requested In the bill for officers or linseed oil, was announced as. the next business in order on in the navy was extended to the officers of the army by the act of the calendar. · October 1, 1890 (26 Stat., 562), which provided that should •the officer Mr. BACON. I ask that the bill go OTer. fail in his physical examination and be found incapacitated for service It by reason of physical disability contracted in the line of duty he shall The VICE-PRESTDENT. will go o-ver. be retired with the rank to which his seniority entitled him to be SANTA CRUZ, O.A.L. promoted. The same provision was made appllcaole to the Marine Corps by the The bill {H. R. 9101) to grant title to certain public land to a.ct appro>ed July 28, 1892 {27 Stat., 321). the city of Santa Cruz, in the State of California, to be used for There is no corresponding Law whlch applies to the navy. street purposes, was considered as in Committee of the Whole. The unworthy can not secure the benefits proposed under the provi sions of this bill, because the existing law provides that in case an The bill had been reported from the Committee on Public officer of the navy fails for promotion other than physically he is Lands with an amendment, on page 1, line 10, after the word either suspended for one year, with subsequent reexamination and dis "only," to insert: charge upon a secQUd failure, or if his disqualific.atlons rest upon moral Provided however, That the city of Santa Cruz shall not have the grounds or exlst by reason C1f his own misconduct he is at once dis· right to sell or convey the land herein granted, or any part thereof. or charged. lt is clearly unjust that the existing dlscri.mlnatlon again.st the navy to devote the same to any other purpose than as hereinbefore described, should be permitted, and it is but fair the officers of the navy should and in the event that the land shall not be used for street purposes have the advantages long enjoyed by the officers of the Army and ft shall revert to the United States. Declaration of forfeiture under Marine Corps_ this act may be declared by the Secretary of the l.nterior. In addition, the officers -0f the navy~ upon appearing for examination The amendment was agreed to. for promotion, having served tlu:ougn the entire grade from which The 1:1\11 was reported to the Senate as amended, and the they are to be advanced, when found physically disqualified should tn justice be retired in the grade for wp.ieh they are 'be.ing e.x.am~ed a.nd amendment was concurred in. are otherwise qualified. instead of ID the grade through which they The amendment was ordered to be ~ngrossed, and the bill to have successfully passed. Your committee having given the bill consideration, recommend that be read a third time. lt ·do pass. The bill was read the third time, and passed. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 5877 A.ARON 'OOBNISH. ACTING ASSISTANT ::PAYMASTER IN 'THE NAYY, ETC. The bill (S. 7539) :to ·eorreet the military recOTd of Aaron The bill (S. 4240) to establish the grades ·of acting assistant Cornish was considered as in Committee of the Whole. paymaster ·in 'the United States Narvy and aeting -second Iie17- The bill -was J:eported from the Committee on .Military Mrairs tenant in the United States Marine Corps was considered as in iWith an amendment, to add at the end the folloiWing-provJso: Committee of the Whole. Provided, That no pension ·shall accrue prlor ·to the approval o'f th1s The bill WM .reported ,to the Senate without amendment, or :act. dered to be engrossed for a third reading, rea..d the third time, 'So as to make the bill read-: and passed. Be it enacted, etc., That in the admln1stration of 'the pension laws ACTING SURGEONS IN THE NAVY_, ETC. Aa-ron CorniSh, -who was assistant surgeon, Ninety-seventh 'Regiment The bill ( S. 4745) to equalize the pay and allowances of New i:£ork Volunteer Irrfantry, shall hereafter 'be .held Alld considered to .ha:ve been dll>charged honorably from the military service of ;the United assistant -surgeons and acting assistant surgeons in the United States as a member of said organization on the 8..th da_y of September, States Navy was announced as next in order. '18G2 : Providell_, That no pension shall 'accrue .prior to 1:he approval of Mr. PAGE. I should like io bear from the committee in re this act. gard to the bill. The amendment was agreed to. Mr. SCOTT. The .Senator who :reported the bill is not present. The bill was Teported to 'the Senate as amended, ·and tbe It .had better go orer. amendment was concurred in. Mr. "BURKETT. Let the 'bTil go over. The bill was ordered to be -engrossed for a third -reading, read The PRESIDING OFFICER (1\fr. CRAWFORD 1n the chair). ·the third time, and pa ed. The bill will go over on the request of the Senator from The title was amended so as 1:0 read-: uA bill -for the relief Nebraska. -of Aaron ·Oornigh..,, NORFOLK HARBOR, VIRGIN.IA. WATER SUPPLY ·OF BOZEMAN:, '.MONT. The bill ( S. ~686) to provide additional aids to na-vigation in The bill ( S. 5302) gi·anting to the city ,of Bozeman, Mont, the Light-House Establishment was considered as in Committee certa.in lands to ·enable the city to ;protect >its ·so11rce of water of the Whole. supply from pollution, was considered as in (Jommittee of the The bill was reported from the Committee on Commerce with ;whole. an amendment, iin line 8, after the word "eost," to strike out lli. CARTER. The rbill was rread on a former occa-sion. The the word " of " and insert "not to exceed,'' .so a:s to make the question is on the amendment of the Committee on Public bill read: 'Lands. JJe it ~nact'(!d, etc., That 1:he Secretary of Commerce and Labor be, and he is hereby, .authorized · :to establish and provide an adequate The VTCE-PRESIDE1~. The amendment will be II'ead. system of lighting in 1:he channels 1eading to Norfolk 1Iarbor, Vir The amendment of the Committee-on Public Lands wa.s, on page .ginia, in .accovdance with the estimate and recommendation of the strike Light-House Board in their :repor.t of June 30, 1909, at a co.st wot to 1, line 6, ·after the word "'Iffiblic," to out " lands, to wit: exceed $35,000. The east ha'lf of the southeast 1}uarter .of section 21, and the northeast quarter of the northeast quarter of section 28, all in The amendment was a-greed to. township 1 'SOuth, range 6 east, -0f the prineipal meridian of The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the Montana, embracing 120 acres, more or less,'' and to insert-: amendment was concurred in. for "Land, to wit : The northeast qmni:er o! the northeast quarter of The bill was ordered to be engrossed a third l.'eacling, read se.ction 28, ·township 1 south, Tange 6 east, rof the p.rincipal meridian the third time, and passed. .1n Montana, ·embracing 39.02 acres, more or less : Provided, That the 'City shall pay .for said land the sum of $2.50 ;per acre. BET.U.RN OF -ORDINANCE OF SE.CESSION TO LOUISIANA. The next business on the calendar was Senate concurrent So as to make the bill read: res The bill was reported to the Senat~ as amended and the I have an amendment here providing for the reimbursement of amendments were concurred in. railway mail clerks for necessary expenses incurred by them The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading, read while away from home. the third time, and passed. Mr. CURTIS. Mr. President, I should like to have the chair ADJOURNMENT TO MONDAY. man of the committee, if it be agreeable to him, make some Mr. GARTER. I move that when the Senate adjourns to-day statement as to whether he would consider the question of in it adjourn to meet on Monday next. creasing the salaries of the rural free-delivery carriers. I asked the chairman for a hearing before the committee, but he was The motion was agreed to. sick and unable to give the friends of this amendment an oppor WAGES AND PRICES OF COMMODITIES. tunity to be heard. I hope the chairman will have the commit Senate resolution 212, authorizing the Select Committee on tee carefully consider the amendment, or have some bill con .Wages and Prices of Commodities to expend a sum not to ex sidered to increase the salaries of the rural free-delivery car ceed $65,000 to make inquiry into present prices, etc., was an- riers. They are the poorest-paid people in the Government em nounced as next in order. . ploy. They must furnish two or three horses, and their salaries Mr. BULKELEY. Let the resolution go over. are very small indeed. I think if there is any class of people The PRESIDING OFFICER. The resolution will go over. employed in the Government service who are entitled to in Mr. SMOOT. Was there objection made to the resolution? creased pay it is the rural free-delivery carriers. The PRESIDING OFFICER. There was an objection made Mr. PENROSE. Mr. President, while this debate is out of by the Senator from Connecticut. order, yet by unanimous consent, -r will briefly state to the Sen Mr. SMOOT. Which Senator from Connecticut? ator from Kansas [Mr. CURTIS] that I am in entire sympathy Mr. BULKELEY. I have no objection to the resolution. I with doing something for this deserving class of employees. The thought as the Senator who has the resolution in charge is not subject is somewhat complicated. Four or five years ago the present, and it is likely to meet with objection, the resolution salaries of the rural carriers were supposed to be adjusted on a should go over. permanent and satisfactory basis. After conference with the l\Ir. SMOOT. I should like very much to have the resolution official representatives of what I may term, for lack of a better passed. I think it is well understood in the Chamber that Sena phrase, their labor organizations, their associations in the serv tors now temporarily absent ha-ve some objections to the reso ice, there were some four or five different propositions for the lution. Its passage would possibly merely involve a motion to relief of the rural carriers pending before the Post-Office Com reconsider. mittee. The PRESIDING OFFICER.. Does the Senator from Mon I think I can say with authority that the Postmaster-General tana object to the consideration of the resolution? has this matter most earnestly under consideration, and is en Mr. CARTER. I therefore object, not because I am opposed deavoring to work out some proposition which will relieve con to the resolution, but I think Senators who are opposed to it ditions, which I concede in many parts of the country are con should have their day in court. ditions of some hardship. Another post-office appropriation The PRESIDING OFFICER. The resolution goes over. bill will come up in this body within nine months. Next December PAY OF INTERNAL-REVENUE OFFICERS. the House of Representatives will have under consideration an other post-office appropriation bill. The bill (H. R. 18813) to amend section 63 of the act of Au gust 28, 1894 (28 Stat., p. 567), was considered as in Committee In view of the unprecedented deficit in the postal revenues of the Whole. It proposes to amend section 63 of the act ·of during the last fiscal year and in consideration of the fact that August 28, 1894 (28 Stat., p. 567), so as to read as follows: the present Postmaster-General is engaged in what, in my opinion, is an effort to make greater reforms in the Post-Office S.li: C. 63. That storekeepers, storekeeper~gaugers, and gaugers, when traveling to or from a signments, or when transferred from one as Department than have ever been undertaken by his predecessors, signment to another, either in the same district or in d.Uferent districts, at least since I have been on the Committee on Post-Offices and shall receive the same compen ation per day during the time neces sarily occupied in traveling that they would be entitled to if on duty Post-Roads, I am hopeful · that by the time Congress meets at the place to which assigned or transferred, or from which relieved, again he will have been able to show a most efficient and satis together with actual and necessary traveling expenses. factory reorganization of the Post-Office Department. I have The bill was .reported to the Senate without amendment, or no hesitation in predicting that the deficit will very largely be dered to a third reading, read the third time, and passed. •closed up and that in the second year of the administration of POST-OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL. the present Postmaster-General the revenues of the Post-Office Department in receipts and di bursei:pents, from a business point l\fr. PEJ\"ROSE. I move that the Senate proceed to the con of view, will present a more satisfactory condition than has sideration of House bill 21419, the post-office appropriation bill. been presented for many years, if ever there has been presented The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee a more satisfactory condition. I believe that one of his recom of the Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (H. R. 21419) mak mendations to Congress in his next report will be some method ing appropriations for the service of the Post-Office Department of relief for this very deserving class of employees-the rural for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1911, and for other purposes. free-delivery carriers. A large number of them are among my The bill was read. own immediate constituency, and their interests are as close to l\Ir. BURKE'l'T. l\fr. President, I wish to offer the amend my heart as they are to that of the Senator from Nebraska [Mr. ment which I send to the desk, if the chairman of the committee BURKETT] or the Senator from Kansas [1\Ir. CURTIS]. I shall will suggest the proper place where it should come in. The be found cooperatin(J' with those Senators to do something for amendment pertains to the rural free-delivery carriers. the relief of these employees at the proper time, after a well The PRESIDING OFFICER: The amendment proposed by devised and well-digested plan shall have been thought out and the Senator from Nebraska will be stated. adopted. The SECRET.A.RY. · It is proposed to insert at the proper place in the bill the following : Mr. BURKETT. Mr. Pre ident, there are two or three other amendments which I had expected to offer. I have presented That from nnd after the passage of this act the salary of rural free delivery carriers ball be increased from $000 per year to $1,200 per them to the committee, but I realize, of course, what the situa year for all standard 24-mile routes, with an increase of $36 per year tion has been, and I realize that these matters have been under for each and every mile above that length and a decrease of like amount investigation by the Postmaster-General. I have pending an for every mile below that standard. amendment providing that employees in the various city post The PRESIDING OFFICER. Without objection, the amend offices shall have thirty days' leave of absence, and also an ment will be agreed to. amendment providing for the payment of the necessary ex Mr. PENROSE. Mr. President, I did not understand the penses of railway mail clerks while they are away from home Chair. What was the statement of the Chair? on duty. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair stated that, without Mr. PENROSE. Mr. President, I will state for the informa objection, the amendment would be agreed to. tion of the Senator from Nebraska that the House has incorpo Mr. PENROSE. I object to the amendment as being out. of rated in this bill an appropriation of $250,000 relative to the order, as it is obnoxious to Rule XVI. railway mail clerks, and I have a letter here from Mr. J. T. Mr. BURKETT. Does the Senator from Pennsylvania raise Canfield, the president of the Railway Mail Association, in the point of order? l\fr. PENROSE. I raise the point of order. which he says: But I will say that ratification of the action of the House will be The PRESIDING OFFICER. The point of order is sus perfectly satisfactory to the most of us at this time. tained. Mr. BURKETT. Mr. President, I have another amendment Therefore the post-office appropriation bill, as it comes from here, but I presume the same rule is going to obtain, probably, the House, is entirely satisfactory to the official representatives as that in regard to the amendment which I have just offered. .of the railway mail clerks' association at this time. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. 5879 ", l\Ir. BURKETT. I aU: very gla·d, Mr. President, that such is nevertheless he does say in his letter that he thinks that it is all the case. I have not had any word from that source; and, that they can properly expect under the circumstances, and that I of course, we have taken this bill up rather hurriedly-- they are very well satisfied. If I had known that letter was Mr. PENROSE. There is no dlsposition to take up the bill here, I would not have offered or even suggested the amendment hurriedly, Mr. President. I did. Mr. BURKETT. I am not complaining; but I was not look~ Mr. JONES. I offer the amendment I send to the desk. ing forward to its being considered to-day. The SECRETARY. After the word "substations," in line 2, on l .l\Ir. PENROSE. What I have read is the statement in Mr. page 30, it is proposed to insert the following : Caniield's letter. Pr01:idecl ftirther, That $25,000 of the amount hereby appropriated Mr. BURKETT. I am very glad that that is true. A year may be used by the Postmaster-General, under such rules and regula tions as may be prescribed by him, for the establishment of an '?XPeri ngo I offered a similar amendment. I have no disposition to mental system of the parcels post, to be confined to packages originat ' crowd any of these amendments now, because I realize they are ing on the rural routes that may be selected by him for such experi l probably subject to a point of order. 1· know we had considera ment ; and he shall report to Cong.ress on the first Monday in Decem ble discussion with reference to the proposition to provide for ber, 1911, the result of such experunent. the payment of the expenses of the railway mail clerks when Mr. PENROSE. If the Senator from Washington will intro they are absent from home on duty, and I did think there was duce that proposition as a separate bill, I will call a meeting ot a general understanding that that subject would be taken up the committee immediately, and I have no doubt it will act and be straightened out this year. I am very glad to know that fa>orably on it, although I do not know how the committee it has been under consideration. feels. · . I think the two or three matters concerning which I have sub But, as an amendment to this bill, I must object to it as ob mitted amendments-the increase in the salary of the rural noxious to the rule, being new legislation, and also to Rule XVI carriers, the question of \acation in city post-offices, and pro as involving an additional appropriation and being general leg viding for the reimbursement of expenses of railway mail islation. clerks-are matters that we ought to give attention to. The Mr. JONES. I assume the amendment is subject to the point salaries in none of these cases are very large; in fact, the post of order and upon the assurance the Senator from Pennsyl office clerical force, the Railway l\Iail Service, and the Rural \ania h~s just made I shall be very glad to offer it as a. sep Free-Delivery Service, I think, are the poorest paid branches arate measure and have it considered. in the Government seTvice. That is especially true of the rural l\lr. PENROSE. I will call a special meeting of the com carriers. I have taken the pains to go over the expense accounts mittee immediately and the Senator can have a hearing, and we of more than twenty of the rural carriers, who have kept them will act upon the proposition on its merits. accurately. A carrier can not live on the salary that is given The PRESIDING OFFICER. The point of order is sus him, and he is obliged to do something on the outsde in the way tained. of gardening or something of that sort. Mr. BRISTOW. I desire to submit an amendment, as much But I realize that the amendments are subject to a point of for the purpose of getting the judgment of the chairman of the order, and I also realize that there is an investigation now be committee on the question as for anything else, because I have ing conducted by the department with a view of straightening not had an opportunity to talk with him about it. I should like out a good many matters. to have it read. The SECRETARY. It is proposed to add to the paragraph, on I am very glad to hear the chairman of the committee state that the question of the Railway Mail Service has been adjusted page 201, line 19, the words- . And the Postmaster-General is hereby authorized to expend so much satisfactorily, for, to my mind, the fact that these men when of this appropriation as may be necessary to make and execute special they are away from home are not allowed their expenses has contracts with publishers of mail matter of the second class and rail been one of the worst abuses in the public service. They are road companies for the transportation and handling of so much of said matter as heretofore has not been carried in the mails. The distance the only public servants, so far as I could ascertain-and a carried shall be less than the average haul of such matter and the year ago I looked the matter up-who do .not have their ex postage rates charged may be less than 1 cent per pound, on condition penses paid when they are assigned by the Government to per that the publishers shall wrap and properly route the said mail matter in packages not less than 10 pounds to one address, and on the further form duty away from their homes. condition that railway companies shall transport and handle said matter Mr. PENROSE. Mr. President, I will state-and I think I for a compensation, in full, of not exceeding 35 per cent of the gross revenue received as postage on said matter. The Postmaster-General can do so without any egotism-that I think I have perhaps hall make report to Congress on or before February 1, 1911, o! any as good a record as any Member of Congress in connection with action taken by him under this provision. efforts to advance salaries and improve conditions among the Mr. PENROSE. Of course, the amendment _is open to the employees of the Post-Office Department. Some.times, perhaps, same objection that I raised to the previous one. It opens up I have been accused of letting my sympathy for these employees a very large question of the status of postal rates in connection outrun the discretion and vigilance with w1Iich I ought to look with periodicals. It is a matter which I think the House Com at the business condition· of the department. But I am in mittee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads is even now investigating close sympathy with the Senator from Nebraska on all these and has been investigating off and on all winter, and it is being propositions, and I intend, with the cooperation of the Post most carefully considered by the Postmaster-General. It is a master-General, to try to help work them out at an early date. matter which can, in my opinion-and I believe I speak for the • I will state-and I say it in justice to the post-office employees committee-be safely left until next winter. and their representatives, with whom I have been in very close Knowing the experience of the Senator from Kansas in postal touch for a number of years-that I have found them this matters, and having been more or less intimately brought into winter most reasonable and considerate. The attitude of all contact with him when he was a high official of the Post-Office of them has been very largely the attitude of Mr. Ganfield, the Department, I shall be only too glad to confer with him per official representative o1' the Railway l\Iail Association, when sonally and get the advantage of his thought and experience on he says he will be content this year with the moderate relief this very complicated question, with which I know he is so famil granted by the House, and will look forward to better times iar, and in connection with which he did such good work while and better conditions to secure a final adjustment of matters in he was an official of the Post-Office Department. that particular department. 1\Ir. BRISTOW. I have not given the subject as careful con Mt. BURKETT. Mr. President, I did not intend by anything sideration as I should like to; but I have :felt for a number of I said to make any intimation that the Senator from Pennsyl yea.rs that if contracts like those could be made, we might get vania was not in sympathy with the post-office employees. I for the department a large tonnage of the business that now hope he did not think that I made such an intimation. -goes to the express companies, and under these provisions it Mr. PENROSE. I did not. I simply wanted to explain my would be profitable and not a loss. position in connection with the matter as one of entire sympathy. I would not insist, of coll"se, that the amendment go into l\Ir. BURKETT. I did not inten,d to intimate by anything I this bill, because. I realize, as the Senator from Pennsylvania said that the Senator from Pennsylvania was not in entire sym has said, that it is a very broad question. I simply offer it in pathy with these propositions, because I have talked to him order to get it to the attention of the Senate for the considera individually several times about them, and I also remember the tion of the Post-Office Oommittee at some more opportune time. · remarks he made on the fioor of the Senate a year ago with ref Mr. PENROSE. I am very glad the Senator has brought up erence to them. But I did not have this information from Mr. the matter. I hope he will give me an opportunity to confer Canfield. I have now read the entire letter through. Had I with him fully on the matter. I think there is a great deal in known that the chairman of the committee had that letter, the view suggested in his amendment. It is a matter that ought I should not have said anything with reference to the question to be looked into most carefully. of the Railway l\Iall Service employees: While Ur. Canfield sug- The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Kansas 1:ests that the provision does not grant entirely what they want, insist upon his amendment? 5880 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. MAY 6, Mr. BRISTOW. It goes out on the point of order, I under Mr. SIMMONS. Can· the Senator tell me how many routes stand. that would be sufficient to establish? Mr. PENROSE. On the point of order. Mr. PENROSE. I have not the figures at hand here. I think The PRESIDING OFFICER. The point of order is well I can advise the Senator that during the hard times and the taken. ,, very large falling off in the postal revenues there might have The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment. been a little conservatism exhibited in extending rural routes, Mr. LA FOLLETTE. I wish to offer an amendment, which is but the appropriation in this bill is far beyond the most san subject to a point of order, of course. It is the amendment guine expectation of anybody interested in the subject. which I offered to the post-office appropriation bill when it was The estimate for 1911 was $38,245,000, an increase of $885,000, last pending. or 2.36 per cent. The revised estimate for 1911 was $37,345,000, It is .to insert, on page 20, line 23, after the word " construc a decrease of $15,000 over the original estimate; and the House tion," what I send to the desk. of Representatives, taking the matter into its own hands, over The SECRETARY. On page 20, line 23, after the word " con the heads of the chairman of the Committee on Post-Offices and struction," it is proposed to insert the following proviso: Post-Roads and the Postmaster-General, has appropriated in Pro'l:ided, That the Postmaster-General shall make an investigation this bill $38,860,000, considerably in excess of anything esti and report to Congress at its next session the cost of building and main mated or recommended, and apparently the amount desired by taining post-office cars. the friends of this branch of the service. Mr. PENROSE rose. Mr. S~MMONS. I understand the Senator to say, however, Mr. LA FOLLETTE. Just · a moment, if the Senator from that only a little over $1,000,000 of that sum is for the purpose Pennsylvania will pardon me. I do not want to detain the of extending the rural system. Senate to discuss the amendment at all. It simply calls for Mr. PENROSE. One million four hundred thousand dollars. information, and I hope the chairman will not feel obliged to Mr. SI.1\11\IONS. One million foµr hundred thousand dollars? invoke the rule under which the amendment would be out of I wish to ask the Senator if with 900 routes already approved, order. but n9t yet established, $1,400,000 will be sufficient to install Mr. PENROSE. I should like very much to get this bill those 900 routes and also to provide for the number that will through if it is possible without opening the door to amend probably be approved during the next fiscal year. ments. I am willing to assure the Sena tor from Wisconsin Mr. PENROSE. I am informed by the Postmaster-General that if he will offer his proposition as a resolution or a bill I that it is his intention thoroughly to reorganiz the system of will call a meeting of the Committee on Post-Offices and Post rural delivery. He has already made a very radical and im Roads immediately, and as far as I am individually concerned portant step in that direction by consolidating the star-route will vote to promptly report out the measure. I will go further, system with the rural system; and that it is his intention from and will ask the unanimous consent of the. Senate, or move, to now ou promptly to take up all the applications pending in have the measure considered immediately upon its being re his department and endeavor to bring everything up to date ported. under this appropriation. Mr. LA FOLLETTE. I withdraw the amendm·ent on the Mr. BRISTOW. If the Senator from Pennsylvania will par assurance of the Senator from ;pennsylvania. don me, I will state to the Senator from North Carolina that _ Mr. SIMMONS. Mr. President, I have not had an oppor in the ordinary run of business $1,400,000 ought to install from tunity to examine the bill, and I was not expecting it to be 1,800 to 2,000 routes during the year. called up to-day. In fact, I did not expect it for some time. I Mr. SI.1\11\IONS. Then the Senator thinks it would be amply wish to ask the Senator from Pennsylvania in charge of the sufficient to provide for the 900 already approved and for any bill what provision is made for the extension of 'the Rural additional number that are likely to be approved during the Mail Service. year? Mr. PENROSE. The House put in $1,400,000 for the further Mr. BRISTOW. Yes. It would provide for about 1,500, extension of the rural service. if they all went into effect on the 1st day of July, but that Mr. SIMMONS. Is that the amount asked for by the depart would not be possible if there are only 900 approved; and ment? as they go into effect during the year, the full salary of the Mr. PENROSE. It was added to on the floor of the House. carrier, which would be $900, is not absorbed. So the longer Mr. SIMMONS. It was added on the floor of the House? the year runs the larger the number that can be installed that The question I should like to ask the Senator is whether that year under the appropriation. is the amount or less than the amount estimated for or asked Mr. SIMMONS. Has the Senator any information as to the for by the department. number of routes usually approved in one year? Mr. PENROSE. It is more than the estimate. Mr. BRISTOW. I have not. But I think this sum would Mr. SIMMONS. It is more than the estimate? make abundant provision for all the routes that could be exam Mr. PENROSE. It was put in over the head of the Commit ined and approved now, since the routes henceforth to be es tee on Post-Offices and Post-Roads of the House and over the tablished will be in sparsely settled country where it takes heads of the Post-Office Department by a majority vote of the longer to examine an . Delivery Service by the House is largely in excess of the amount EXECUTIVE SESSION. estimated or asked for by the department. Mr. CARTER. I move that the Senate proceed to the con.. Mr. PE.l~ROSE. Yes, sir. sideration of executive business. Mr. Sll\11\fONS. How much more is it? The motion was agreed to; and the Senate proceeded to the Mr. PENROSE. I have already stated the :figures to the consideration of executive business. After five minutes spent Senate. in executive session the doors were reopened and (at 2 o'clock Mr. CLA.Y. I ha"\'e the figures right here. I will state to the and 10 minutes p. m.) the Senate adjourned until Monday, May chairman that the estimates for the year 1911 were $37,345,000. 9, 1910, at 12 o'clock meridian. The amount carried by the bill is $38,860,000. Mr. Sll\fl\IONS. What I desired, however, was the estimate CONFIRMATIO"NS. for this particular branch of the service and the amount avail able for the extension of the Rural Free-Delivery Service. Executive nominations confirmed, by the Senate May 6, 1910. Mr. CLAY. It is all one item-a lump sum. UNITED STATES ATTORNEY. Mr. PENROSE. There is no estimate particularly on that William A. Northcott to be United States attorney for the point. It is an estimate for the whole service. · southern district of Illinois. l\Ir. SIMMONS. l\fr. President, I will not prosecute the mat ter further. I have been strongly of the impression that justice UNITED ST.A.TES MARSHAL. was not being done in the matter of the extension of this great William H. Behrens to be United States marshal for the service, in which probably more people are interested than in southern district of Illinois. any other service given them by the Government. As I have not RECEIVER OF PUBLIC MONEYS. had time to read the bill, and-as the bill was called up before I Charles C. Palfrey to be receiver of public moneys at New expected it to be called up, I wanted to ascertain and to be cer Orleans, La. tain that sufficient provision was made for the installation of POSTMASTERS. every route that was properly investigated and appro•ed. Mr. PENROSE. I think the Senator has every reason to be INDIANA. gratified at the liberal appropriation made for this branch of Robert J. Hay, at Delphi, Ind. the service by the House of Representatives. NEW YORK. l\Ir. Sll\fMONS. In view of the statement of the chairman Howard V. Lane, at Riverhead, N. Y. of the committee with reference to the amount allowed, I think Edward Troy, at Olean, N. Y. I ought to say that it appears to me the Senate committee has been reasonably liberal in the matter. I hope there will not be PENNSYLVANIA. in the future any excuse on the part of the department for not Alpheus B. Clark, at Hastings, Pa. properly pressing the installation of this service. John C. l\finich, at Saegerstown, Pa. The bill was ordered to a third reading, read the third time, S. W. Price, at New Wilmington, Pa. and passed. SOUTH DAKOTA. · EDWARD D. GILBERT. E. G. Akam, at Flandreau, S. Dak. Mr. BULKELEY. Before proceeding with the unfinished VIRGINIA. business, I ask unanimous consent to call up the bill (H. R. 24248) for the relief of Edward D. Gilbert. It will take but a Charles P. Nair, at Clifton Forge, Va. moment. It will gile rise to no debate. The Secretary read the bill, and, there being no objection, the Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, proceeded to its con HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. sideration. The bill was reported from the Committee on Military Affairs FRIDAY, May 6, 1910. with an amendment, to strike out all afier the enacting clause The House met at 12 o'clock noon. and to insert : Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. Henry N. Couden, D. D. That in the administration of any laws conferring rights, privileges, The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read and or benefits upon honorably discharged soldiers Edward D. Gilbert, now approved. a resident of Haddam, Conn., who was a private In Company I, Twen ty-first Regiment Connecticut Volunteer Infantry, shall hereafter be CORRECTION. held and considered to have been discharged honorably from the mili Mr. HARDY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to make tary service of the United States as a member of said company and regiment on the 17th day of March, 1863 : Provided, That no pension a correction in an amendment which I offered yesterday, ap. or bounty shall accrue prior to the passage of this act. pearing on page 5866 of the REcoRD, so that it will read as fol- The amendment was agreed to. lows: · Strike out all after the words " section 12," in line 18, on page 75, The bill was reported to the Senate as amended, and the down to the word " nor," in line 6, page 76, and insert the following: amendment was concurred in. "That no railroad or water-carrier corporation which is a common The amendment was ordered to be engrossed and the bill to carrier subject to the provisions of this act shall hereafter acquire directly or indirectly, any interest of whatsoever kind in the capital be read a third time. stock or the bonds of any other railroad or water-carrier corporation, The bill was read the third time, and passed. or shall hereafter purchase or lease any railroad or water line which is directly or substantially competitive with that of the first-named cor· POPTJLAR VERSUS DELEGATED GOVERNMENT. poration, or shall hereafter purchase or lease any two lines either l\fr. BROWN. Mr. President, I ask that the address of the railroad or water lines, which are directly or substantially competitive Senator from Oregon [l\ir. BOURNE] be printed as a public with each other." document. The SPEAKER. Is there objection to the request of the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Nebraska gentleman from Texas? asks that the address delivered yesterday by the Senator from There was no objection, and it was so ordered. Oregon [l\Ir. BOURNE] be printed as a public document. Is COMMITTEE APPOINTMENT. there objection? The Chair announced the follolVing committee assignment: l\Ir. CARTER. I ha•e no objection to the request, but I un ?Ur. HAVENS, to the Committee on Railways and Canals. derstand that the Senator from New Hampshire [Mr. GALLIN GER] objected yesterday, and that .Senator not being present-- PENSION APPROPRIATION BILL. 1\Ir. BROWN. I have talked with that Senator. His objec The SPEAKER laid before the House the bill (H. R. 20578)" tion was to the number proposed yesterday to have printed and making appropriations for the payment of invalid and other not to the order to print. pensions of the United States for the fiscal year ending June 30, Mr. OVERl\IAN. I could not hear the request. 1911, and for other purposes, with Senate amendments thereto. Mr. BROWN. I have asked that the address of the Senator The Senate amendments were read. from Oregon made yesterday on popular government be printed. Mr. KEIFER. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House disagree The PRESIDING OFFICER. Is there objection to the re to the Senate amendments and ask for a conference. quest of the Senator from Nebraska? The motion was agreed to. There being no objection, the order was reduced to writing The SPEAKER announced the following conferees on the and agreed to, as follows : part of the House: Mr. KEIFER, l\fr. SNAPP, and Mr. KELIHER. TH~~ig~u:'N~aJr.~;f ~1~:~~n .d~~vi~~~l~~ J'!~lus5 b;1~i~'te~Y G1;~~~n~0i:it MESSAGE FROM THE SENATE. nnd the el!ect it bas on legislation, be printed as a Senate document A message from the Senate, by Mr. Crockett, one of its clerks, (No. 524). announced that the Senate had insisted upon its amendment to 5882 CONGRESSIONAL _RECORD-HOUSE. ~fAy 6, the bill (H. R. 19D62) establishing a commission of fine arts, by the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce of the disagreed to by the House of Representatives, had agreed to House and the gentleman from Iowa, they are both intended, the conference asked by the House on the disagreeing votes of and if this bill shall find its way finalJy upon the statute books the two Hor1ses thereon, and had appointed l\Ir. WETMORE, Mr. it will be passed so as to carry out that prohibition and that in RooT, and Mr. SHIVELY as the conferees on the part of the tention to permit both the traffic agreements and the consoli Senate. dations and mergers of competing lines of railways, and in effect 'l'he message also announced that the Senate had passed, with to destroy and evade the enforcement as to railroads of the amendments, joint resolution of the following title, in which antitrust law of 1890. The evident purpose of this section wa,s the concurrence of the House of Representatives was requested: not intended to be concealed by the Senate Committee on Inter H.J. Res. 206. Joint resolution to supply a deficiency in the state Commerce. In the majority report from that committee appropriation for printing and binding for the Treasury De it is said: partment for the fiscnl year rn10, and for other purposes. The efl'ect of this provision Is to relieve carriers from the prohibition ) The message al~o announced that the Senate had passed bills of the antitrust act aft'eeting agreements of the character referred to by preserving unimpaired the control of the commission under the inter· of the following titles, in which the concurrence of the House of state-commerce act over all such agreements. Representatives was requested: S. 7916. An act authorizing the construction of a bridge across So we may say the purpose and intent of this merger section the Columbia River near the mouth of the San Poll River, in was to relieve the carriers of the prohibition of the antitrust the counties of Ferry and Lincoln, Wash.; · act and-- Mr. TOWNSF~ND. Will the gentleman yield? S. 5607. An act to increase the limit of cost of the public l\Ir. BARTLETT of Georgia. Certainly. building at Huron, S. Dak.; and Mr. S. 4500 . .An act to authorize the extension of the public build -TOWNSE1''D. The quotation the gentleman has jru the money taken with<>ut justifica.tlon from the Treasury of their eom.mercla1 in.dependence. The .only object in turning it the people will simply go into the capacious pockets -of the over to the General G<>vernment was to increase its efficiency beneiiciaries -0f the shipping trust. Every scheme of this kind and to complete its power. From the debates in the Constitu simply permits respectable corruption and benefits the few at tional Convention 1t is clear that the third "enumerated" the expense of the many. The principle of ship .subsidies is :power was one -o~ the "bonds and conditions" of the Union, .. inherently wrong and absolutely indefensibl~, and no man who just as much as allowing each State-big "°r little-two Senn. understaru:lB the question ean justify the steal in the face of tors in Congress, or that reserving certain rights to the States, the facts. o.r that .concerning the President's nativity, -0r that limiting his . The --:unerican people .are unalter~bly opposed to a ship-sub- term -0f office-just as much, in fact, as any provision of a s1dy raid on the Treasury. A subsidy is a bounty, a oonus. a fundamental character. In fact, .a charter for a n.ati-0nal gov gratuity., and it never has succeeded, and it never will succeed, ' ernment would b.e incomplete without it. The first "enumer in :accomplishing the purpose desired. Al1 history proves :it .ated,, power-that authorizing the layin(J'0 of duties on imports conclusively. Wherever and whenev-er it has been tried it has for revenue-contains no. element .for industrial protection, failed. In my opinion! if a subsidy bill should p~ss it wm~ld SS.Ye :as 1n.cidental. The shipping trade. however_, is .rut in not restore our American merchan.t marine or a.id our ship- dustry th.at is highly susceptible to growth and permanent :building industries. It is a waste of ti.me to talk about ship prosperity by a graduated system of discriminating tonnage snln:;idies, and I believe -every honest Amerkan is opposed to taxes and tarllr duties in favor of American .ships .and again.st the policy. We might just as well pass a bill to pay a. subsidy toreign ships; and these, ta.ken to(J'ether were the means of to every man who grows a bushel .of wheat or rai.seg a bale of ship protection in use by the staW: iron:{ 1785 to 17-89. They .cotton as t-0 pay a subsidy to the man who builds a ship. were the means recognized in the compact of Union and ap- Mir. Chairman, ~ver since I came to Congress, nearly rSixteen plied by Congress in 1789. They are the only expedient, -effect years ago, I have been making ~n earnest effort to do something ive, and constitutional means .at the ~ommand of Congress to along honest lines to revive .our languishing shipbuilding indus- day. Had they been unprovided tor ln the Federal Oo:nstitu tries, but all in vain. I have introduced many good bills and tion the Union could not have been effected. resolutions, but without avail. The committees of tbe House, There can be no doubt of this. Massachusetts had the most dominated by Republican :Members committed to subsidi-es, ruth- shipping, but Penn:sylrnnia, New York, Maryland, and Virginia lessly pigeonholed them, and in many eases refuse e-ven to had growing fleets in 1787 under protection by state regulations; grant their friends and advocates the courtesy of a hearing. and it was claimed that not cme of these States would join a In this connection I send to the Clerk's desk .a resolution r-e- government unable to protect its marine, o.r that would protect it cently introduced by me and ask to have it read by the Clerk for a little while and then "' suspend" it, as in fact the Federal in my time as a part of my remarks. Government did in 1828, to the gradual ruination of the vessel The Clerk read as follows : Interest in the foreign trade. The people engaged in this trade House joint resolution (H. J". Res. 212) concern1ng the merchant marine. axe now in this situation-: The States can not protect their Whereas tn forming the several independent 'States into a Republic shipping, and the General -Government has '' suspended"' its unde'r the Constitution in 17.87 it was a r-e.qnirement ·Of the said States law for so doing. Had it been suspended also as to the -coast- that their shipping, which was then lID.der the encouragement and pro- · tr d t tection of navigation laws, 'Should be .cared for and fostered in the same wise · a e, hat, too, would now be in a ruined state, and ou:t manner by the Federal Governmeut in case the said 'States gave up to entirn water-borne commerce, an immense and vital interest, this Government, ill perpetuity, their power of making BUeh Jaws for would have b-een placed to our detriment in the grasp of foreign them.selves; and ti Wllereas it was agreed and prov1de.d by th~ Constitution.al Conven- na ons. Uon, no voice dissenting, that this -proposition shou'ld be carried -0ut in When the question of ·adopting the Constitution was before the event of the ad-Option ot' the Con-stituti-On, and that event following, the States, no little of 1ts merit was shown to be the power C<>ngress ratified the compact, .beginning in the first session, and for hi h Con 'd h t t fo fol'ty years faithfully observed lt. passing requisite navigation laws W c gress WOU!! ave · o Tegula e our reign commerce. -which induced the building and running of the best marine f()n the l\Iadison, Jefferson, Hamilton, and l\Iorris were eloquent on <>cean ; and this line. The Federal Constitution was adopted, and the sev- Wbereas in 1828 a eha.nge o.f policy was recommended by the Prest- l St t di st d f h i dis de:c.t and carrled out by the Congress tn violation of the compact with era a es were ve · e o power to continue t e: r crim1· the States for the maintenance -0f navigation laws, -0ffering to a1l na- nating duties in favor -Of their ships in the deep-sea carryillg t:lons a proposition for tree and -0pen navi ... ation in the foretgn trade, trade. Thus was the protection of shipping given up by th~ all regulations for ship enc-0uragem.ent mutually suspended tor a term State d +....1- b th G l ,.,,~ t ~Ai1 · of years, and until either party desired to terminate the convention for 8 :an u:u>:en -over ry e enera uvvernmen , 011 consent to such an amendment of the Constitution as would be s~ to do were given up for the use of the Federal Government, on condi tion, however, that it be considered a compact to exercise these rights necessary to the adoption of a "ship-subsidy" policy. in perp,etuity for the protection of shipping of the future u United The taxpayers of om· country, burdened now almost beyond States. ' So this subject is in politics, and there it will remain. It endurance, are opposed to ship subsidies. They are opposed to will not take itself out of politics, though ever so much ignored and dodged1 but it will stay, if for nothing better, to exp-0se the disregard any gift bill. They say no private business should be aided by of national irterest, as that is involved in marine rehabilitation, put direct grants from the Treasury. Ship subsidies are subversive off for the past forty years by our inattentive rulers. of the eternal principles of justice, incompatible with equality, PAST AND PRESENT STATESMANSHIP. contrary to the theory of our free institutions, of doubtful expe It would seem that there must be something amiss, much inherent difficulty -0r strange shortcoming, or our Representatives, Senators, and diency, and at war with the spirit of the Constitution. Con Presidents would handle the shipping subject as easily as their fathers gress has no power to subsidize .any trade or any calling, on did, and as earnestly and promptly, too. Is the trouble with the sons land or sea, at the expense of the taxpayers of our country. or in the subject? Is it due to obstacles or underestimation? To apathy or lack of inquiry? Can foreign intluence account for it? Any attempt to fasten this odious system of ship subsidies on In the beginning, our people were poor as well as few. Our Nation the legislative policy of the country is un-Democratic, un-Repub wa.s weak and inferior. But our statesmen were able, courageous, and lican, and un-A.merica.n. persistent. Hindrances were removed or overcome. They acted with judgment-waiting awhile for numbers and strength before full pro My plan of restoring our merchant marine and securing our tection was given to shipping, but they began the work faithfully and share of the deep-sea commerce of the world is not a makeshift. continued It with confidence, until every right on the ocean was fully It is not a temporary expedient. It is not new. It is the plan secured by statute law. Shipping measures were not put off from one session to another, lest the opposition should gain advantage from and the policy of the fathers of the Republic, and should never their passage. To their constitutional method there wa.s no opposition. have been abandoned. It is a permanent remedy, a return to A "ship-subsidy" scheme would have be.en scouted by all. Re,,<>'Ulation first principles, and again adopted and upon the statute books of our for~ tra.de was the way of the compact. No one feared, and no one cared, about foreign oplnlon. After thirty years of endeavor it would continue in favor for years and years to come, until every point desired had been gained. Our prestige on the ocean was the .American people possessed the greatest merchant marine acknowledged by the world. Many were the advantages resulting from in all the world. Hence I say again that from a careful study the circumstance. Our independence was complete--as to merchants, shipowners, shipbuilders, seamen, and underwriters. We carried and of the whole subject-matter I sincerely believe that the re conducted our foreign commerce with safefy and satisfaction, and with adoption of this policy of discriminating customs taxes and the pride of freemen. Best of all, American sentiment ruled every tonuage duti~ in favor of American-built ships and against where throughout our land. God help us. The opposite of all this prevails now. I1 subordina foreign-built ships will speedily restore our ocean carrying trade, tion and inferiority be good things, we have a surfeit. These things revive our shipbuilding industries, give employment in our ship are silently deteriorating our character and producing a people satis· yards to thousands and thousands of men in all parts of the fied with foreign dominance. Our Government is succumbing to it. Were this not so, our statesmen· would be up and doing for shipping country, bring about an.era of prosperity such as we have never restoration and the recovery of our place in the world of commerce. known in our shipping trztde and deep-sea commerce, place our On the contrary, the sons of the "founders" have been forty years fiag on our own ships on every ocean and in every port, and forgetting the importance of independence on the ocean ; trying to be· lieve that foreign merchants, shipowners, shipbuilders, and under make the United States the master of the seas and the Ameri writers, with consequent dependency, are quite the thing in modern can sailor what he was in the historic days of the Republic American life. the pride of our patriotic and liberty-loving people. EYIL EFFECTS OF A CHANGE OF POLICY. The CHAIR.l\IAN. The time of the gentleman from New York Review a few eventful facts. As I have said, the present situatt,on has resulted from governmental ~rfidy, beginning in 1828. The Presi· bas expired. dent-then in office imagined that shipping in foreign trade had been l\ir. SULZER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to long enough protected. From an "infant" it had become a .. giant." Our ships were carrying 90 per cent of our foreign trade--take otr print as part of my speech an article on this question written protection, that " barrier to buisness," and " they would carry it by Hon. William W. Bates, of Denver, Colo., formerly United all." And the "fiy " walked lnto the " parlor" that was so "fine." States Shipping Commissioner and now president of the Ship Protection was prepared for gradual " suspension," as it might be desired by foreign nations, one after another. In twenty-two years ping Society of America. as many nations were enjoying privileges opposed to the rights of The CHAIRMAN~ Is there objection? [After a pause.] The American ships-cutting down our percentage of carriage in our own Chair hears none, and it is so ordered. foreign trade as though that was ·of national benefit. A more impolitic course could hardly have been devised. "Maritime reciprocity" was The article follows: the idea-the fad-mutual giving up of governmental ship protection. OUR WRONGED AND RUINED MARINE AND CAPTURED CARRYING TRADE- But the most uneven and dissimilar conditions resulted. Reciprocity OUR GOVERNMENT TO BLAME. in lawmaking was not followed by reciprocity in business. The differ [By William W. Bates, N. A., president of the Shipping Society of ent nations, no longer obliged to freight our ships, gave employment to America.] their own. Straightaway, too, all sorts o:f protections were devised Its perfidious change of policy from care and encouragement to in to bold their own trade, while cutting into ours. Our Government took difference and neglect and its refusal to perform devolved obligations no heed .of these things. It takes no heed now. It shut its eyes to and duties have been hw-tful and deadly to American shipping, while our annual losses of carriage, and practically said to foreign nations : to that of a few foreign nations its course has been of signal benefit. " Sail in and gobble up and make our commerce your own." And the A depenaency u.pon these nations for the conduct of our commerce and foreign interest, thus encouraged, actually looks now to Congress to its carriage has been established, and our fiag at sea has been struck continue its monopoly. It protests against any regulations calculated by our own erring Government, all in the honor of a new-fangled politi to help American shipping in its unequal struggle for survival. It is cal fad, but to the disadvantage, disgrace, and danger of our Republic. so mean as to want the sea itself. This foreign interest, countenanced Once, when we had a wise and vigilant government, we had a marine by one administration after another, is stripping us of power to con and a foreign carrying trade o:f which our Nation was proud. That duct commercial business, of character belonging to an independent trade was smitten with blight, its growth checked, its decline started, people, of liberty to make the sea a theater of enterprise, of freedom to new ships have ceased to be built, and the interest is so nearly extinct regain our place on the ocean, of the right to seek prosperity as be that what is left of the marine will last only a few years. The spring comes an independent nation. These are very serious consequences of head and active cause of this decline and decay have be.en ill-advised bad government. Presently our foreign merchants and carriers will be nnd bad government. at war among themselves, our productions for export will have very Many years ago, in violation of a compact o:f the Constitution, our costly transportation or none at all, panic will attend the interruption promised and successful navigation laws l'or ship protection were sus of trade, bankruptcy will follow panic-maybe a revolution eventuate- pended by agreement with rival nations who had economic advantages. all for the want of independence on the ocean and in over-sea com They gladly agreed to reciprocity in unprotection~ because it would merce. And for the lack of wise and vigilant government the evil of bring us adverse conditions. These soon obtaining, the new policy th~ situation increases with time. proved profitable to them, but worthless to us. The principle was at VIOLATED PLEDGES FAVOR FOREIGN NATIONS. fault. Ruin has resulted. Our misfortune l;las become an old story. Have we no rulers at Washington qualified to see, appreciate, and Congress so far has refused restoration of protection under the com obviate the disadvantages, the dangers, and the disgrace that our coun pact, though national conventions have promised relief, and justice try has fallen into? Do unimportant things necessarily use up all the demands it. In short, our rights and interests in navigation seem to time of Presidents, Cabinets, and the Houses of Congress? If we have be abandoned, as an easy way out. the ability and the time, why is action delayed? What authority de .THE CL.A.IMS OF NAVIGATION. termines which measures shall be considered and which put ot!? Some Consider the case of navigation, once esteemed as a "pillar of our authority has given out this: prosperity." Had there been no shipping question or no statesmen " It is not expected that a ship-subsidy bill will be passed at the competent to solve it, a!ter winning our independence, there would have present session, despite the high hopes of advocates who have organized been no commanding cause of union under the Constitution, no urgent to impress their views upon the lawmakers. • • • It might prove reason for a permanent National Government, and no great continent dangerous in the congressional elections." wide Republic, but the several States would have continued as so Shipowners of Liverpool and Hamburg, of Amsterdam and Havre, of many weak and discordant nations. Were there no shipping question Antwerp and Tokio, the be.st of news right from Washington. To these now our rulers might all pass for statesmen, going down into history gentlemen " ship subsidy " means ship protection-no American ship famed for wisdom, vigilance, and patriotism. The shipping question is protection. "On with the dance! let joy be unconfined." now at the foot of the list of unsolved problems befor.e our rulers, not· The last Republican platform reads thus: . because it has lost any of its original import, by no means; it is there "We adhere to the Republican doctrine of encouragement to Ameri because it is unstudied and not comprehended. With some ol' our rivals can shipping and urge such legislation as will revive the merchant the problem ls econ omic, but with us it is necessarily political. Econom marine (prestige) of the country, so essential to national defense, the ics are against us ; but if the Nation needs a merchant marine, it must enlargement of foreign trade and the industrial prosperity of our own have it, tllough condition s be adverse. Necessarily, it is for our states people." men to provide encouragement. The founders of our Government did The President has declared for the observance of "pledges." What that thing. The constitutional convention did not leave so important does be think of this-is it a poor " pledge" or very ?,OOd buncombe? a matter to the inventiveness of future generations. How to do it had Which way does he interpret it-as for " subsidy" or ' discriminating to be 1>ettled before the Federal Government could be formed. The duties?!' Manifestly, it stands for either, or for neither. If it means " regulation of foreign commerce" was tbA method selected. The States " ship subsidy," is to be who cautions Coni;rress not to t ouch it with a would not have stood for "ship subsidy." No difficulties appeared in 10-foot pole, lest some "M. C." shall be retired? Or is it the Speaker, superable. The several States, feeble as they were. had • navigation or the campaign committee, who scents the danger? No matter-this laws.'' Their right to make them was unquestioned. - Their right "pledge" is o1Il.cially interpreted to mean "ship subsidy; " manifestly. _. "5886 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, a meaning that the platform makers dared not venture to put plainly And what of the effrontery of his friends who had him put to work and into print. Why was this? Simply, because "ship subsidy" has no who keep him at it-serving the interests of foreign nations? It warrant in the Constitution, and would not bear the scrutiny of a " ship " subsidy were set up, it could not be established, but would be campai.im. It was different with the platform makers of 1896. They soon overthrown by a change of administration. Nobody believes the dedal'ed specifically for "discriminating duties "-.constitutional "regu people would year after year tax themselves to support the shipping lations of commerce." The popular vote largely indorsed this plank. trade, even were it attempted by Congress. On the other band, regula Nobody was ashamed of it; nobody apologized for it; It was opposed tion of trade, costing nothing, has behind it the warrant of law, the only by the foreign interests dominating our commerce and navigation ; prestige and popular favor of our early history, and the power of the and the administration elected proved to be so weak, and so unfaithful, American Republic. There is no political party opposed to it. Chiefly, as to repudiate it, instead of carrying it out. The truth seems to be it is foreign influence that induces our Government itself to discourage that the people demand an "American marine," but the foreign interests, and obstruct the passage of proper bllls. But this administration will in terrifying- tones, say : " No ; a foreign marine has the job, and is pass away. Another and a better will come that will one day rightly bound to keep it; " so the politicians promise an American marine, but interpret the Constitution, that great platform of all the people, and the rulers take care not to pass any effective bills. American shipping will then come into its own. UNFRUITFUL PRETENSION. It would be of immense and Immediate national benefit if the present Really, the Republican shipping plank of 1908 ls ambiguous, if not administration would " reform " its maltreatment of the merchant ma rine. It might rightly interyret its shipping ~lank by the light of the equivocal-it binds nobody. Ju his speech on the observance of pledges, Constitution and sanction ' such legislation' as that instrument re· before the Republican Club of the city of New York, on February 12, quires. It could cease to encourage foreign shipping by providing em 1910, the President wholly disregarded the shipping plank. In fact, he ployment for it and justly prefer American vessels for all its purposes. ignored all such planks from first to last. Affecting confidence, he If a shipowner ls loyal to his government, a loyal government can not inquired: do otherwise than reciprocate. Loyalty should be of a kind to deserve " In what respect has the Republlcan party failed in its conduct of applause at home. " Whoever hauls down the American flaO', shoot blm the Government and t he enactment of laws to perform its duty? It was on the spot," was the order of a loyal Secretary of the Treasury. A returned to power a year ago last November by a very large majority, disloyal policy, continued to the present day, bas hauled down the after a campaign in which it made certain promises in its platform, and American flag at sea and keeps it hauled down-for the benefit of for t hose promises it has either substantially complied with or d.t ls about eign flags. From the President down, where shall we find in office one to perform within the present session of Congress. Let us take up these Eiingle consistent, earnest, active friend of American shipping? Were promises in order." this otherwise, it would appear in practical legislation and administra Did be take up the promise to enact "such legislation as wlll revive tion, not in platitudes and platforms and broken pledges. the merchant marine (prestige) of the country?" Not at all. There ls a little bill pending for the establishment of a few mail llnes and the A PROPER BILL AND SQUARE TEST OF LOYALTY. adoption of a "free-ship" policy, which he approves, but on the date of H ere is a bill Introduced by Mr. SULZER, of New York, which, if bis speech nothing toward " such legislation " (as is urgent and abso passed, as it should be, being disserviceable to foreign interests while lutely necessary for a revival of the shipping trade) had been under beneficial to our own, would probably be instantly vetoed : talien. Proper and well-drawn measures are before the committees, but "'l'o repeal the act of Mar 24, 1828, and all other acts n.uthorl.zlng are not to be considered, much less enacted, because they .might be the suspension of discriminatrng duties; to notify foreign nations of the vetoed. The usual " ship" subsidy bill, come to be a farce played for termination of conv1mtions made in pursuance thereof; and to extend the amusement of foreign shipowners, bas not been staged this session. the coastwise laws to the trade between the Philippine Islands and the For ten or twelve years it bas been the custom to introduce the bill, United States. • have it printed, and put off to the short session. At the short session "Be it enacted, etc., That tbe act of 'May 24, 1828, and all law what it has "gone over" for want of time or been talked to death. A dis ever, at any time made, authorizing the President to suspend the laws criminatin"-duty bill, that would redeem party promises, be approved or regulations then in force for the encouragement of the foreign carrv by the people, do its work as of old, may get printed, but it ls pigeon ing trade, on condition that any foreign nation shall reciprocate such holed forthwith. With nothing being done for American shipping, the suspension on its part, is hereby repealed ; and the Secretary of State party is safe and in the countries of our rivals popular. is hereby charged with the duty of notifying each of the nations now The people of the United States are fast tiring of this unfruitful in convention with the United States for mutual suspension of navi pretension--of this continuous trifling with a very serious question, in gation laws in pursuance of this or any other act, that rn one year from effect, whether or not the Government intends to repent its perfidy in receipt of said notice, as stipulated In said convention, the same will be 1828, and to enforce a policy of shiP. protection, such as the compact of terminated and its privileges revoked. tmion prescribes, namely, effective •navigation laws! " The voters of " SEC. 2. That the provisions of law restricting to vessels of the the country may well think of retiring their servants of all parties United States the transportation of passengers and merchandise directly responsible for our present dependency on the ocean. Why does not the or indirectly from one port of the United States to another port of the administration cast all fears of the people aside; pass the nugatory, United States shall be applicable and shall be applied to foreign vessels unconstitutional " ship-subsidy" bill ; and let the people bury it out of engaged in trade between the Philippine Islands and the United States sight with adverse ballots? The country ls being betrayed. · Foreign in sixty days from and after the passage of this act, and while the ports ers are delighted at our defeat. Is there to be no relief? of the Philippines shall be American." , The first section of this bill would restore the protection of our ship THJiJ IlESPO?~SlBILITY FOR SHIP SUBSIDY. ping enjoyed in our early history, under which it carried over 90 per The subsidy principle as a protective does not appeal to the Ameri cent of our foreign trade. The second section would secure to our ves can people. It was carefully kept out of the Constitution. Notwith sels the carriage of our trade with the Philippines. This carriage be standing this fact, our late administrations have undertaken to educate longed, by right and by law, to our own vessels the moment that Philip Congress into its application to the merchant marine. Ever since pine ports became American. An act passed to secure the enjoyment President McKinley. Senator Hanna, and some pushing capitalists re of tl1.is right was extended one year for foreign benefit to delight one pudiated the shipping plank of 1896 and selected a Commissioner of executive, and an act superseding it has been slipped through to please Navigation to frame and tout for the "Hanna-Payne" bill this officer another. Such are now the ways of our Government toward our ship has done bls best in his reports to prejudice Congress and to. have the ping-unjust and unblest. " ship-subsidy " scheme carried through. His arguments are well cal culated to impose upon his readers, false promises abound and fallacious ADMINISTRATIVE IN.TUSTICE. conclusions follow, urged with all the sophistry at command. Here is Note the carriage of mails freely given to support in part the great his latest dictum for tbe misleading of the unwary: lines of our rivals, who have unfairly driven our ships out of trade. "The policy of discriminating duties on imports in foreign ships or No Postmaster-General deprecates this course. discriminating tonnage duties on foreign ships is hopelessly imprac Note the preferred employment of foreign vessels by the Army and ticable. • • • Indirect discriminations are equally futile." Navy departments wbeneve1· they have patronage to bestow, showing Per contra-only "ship" subsidy, the nostrum of the administration, their disloyalty to the rights and interests of their countrymen and Inherently bad, and outside the pale of law, ts competl!'ot. What a their disregard for law, for there never was any law permitting the em compact of the Constitution calls for, what did its work in our early ployment of foreign vessels in place of our own, but it has been procured history, must not be reapplied to the vessels and cargoes . of certain of late. nations, because these nations have become our lawgivers. Who Note the employment of foreign carriers of Panama Canal supplies. believes this? Examine the Hay-Pauncefote treaty with England, conditioned to pre The Commissioner of Navigation conceals the fact that his bureau now vent any protection to American vessels through the using of this costly administers the discriminating-duty law as it stood prior to the act of canal by means of discriminative tolls. It was our right to build thi.s May 24, 1828, as to all nations not in convention for its "suspension." canal free of diplomatic bondage to any nation, and to charge discrim The term of suspension having expired, it is optional at any moment inative tolls, if we pleased, but Mr. Roosevelt thought not, the Senate for either government concerned to give the notice required and thus thought not, or they sold out the Republic. Anyway, in the interest terminate its agrePment for "maritime reciprocity." Though we should of the British marine, and dead against the right and interest of Ameri not take such action were the score of nations concerned to give such can shipping, Congress is forbidden to establish tolls favoring our ships. notice and thus end the agreements themselves, as they might do., Mr. Note that the European Governments are paying the tolls of the Commissioner would find on bis hands for execution the very law that Suez Canal, and the British are, as might have been foreseen, rebating he denonnces, and which he says is "hopelessly impracticable." It is them to their own vessels. So, practically, England has compelled thoughtful of him to caution Congressmen against making any more us to dispense with tolls ; for we should do as well by our ships, if of Rueb law lest all of our rivals turn upon us in a day and inflict we have any, as other nations do by theirs. Thus, while England bas punishmen t for our audacity. Our rivals can speak for themselves. realized canal protection, we have entirely failed. We had a chance Hear one of them : for it, but~ not appreciating the need for ship protection, treated it " THE SHIPPING OUTLOOK. away-to aeligbt Roosevelt and please John Hay. We are stuck on "At the annual meeting of the Manchester Liners' Steamship Line, more treaties than any other nation in Christendom. With such diplo held in England on October ·15, 1909, Sir Christopher Furness, the macy, is it any wonder our place at sea is lost? chafrman, said : ' One thing perfectly clear is that the high-water. mark Note the superseding of n. recent act of Congress, already described, of the shipowning supremacy of this country has been reached. All that a British shipping combine may continue Its monopoly of car other great nations have determined, rightly or wrongly, to have a riage between the Philippine Islands and all American ports. Natural greater share of the carrying trade of the world in the future than and constitutional rights are rubbish with Mr. Taft-here is his dictum: they have had in the past. and I think it is time that British ship "THE DOMESTIC TRADE MENACED. owners realized the reasonableness of .that ambition In other nations.'" "The coastwlse laws of the United States should be made inappli Spoken like a sensible man ! Our right to enjoy proper ship protec cable to the trade between the ports of the islands and the ports of the tion is only disputed by our own politicians whose fear vitiates their United States." judgment. It is not the kind of protection, but the work it will accom Relying upon their rights, our shipowners several times shaped their plish that mlgbt be resented. We have only to keep within our rights business to enter the Philippine trade. They have been sadly dis to fe~r no evil from our fellow-men. Denied our r1ghts, we will have appointed. On the other band, the British and Japanese, relying upon them-" peacefully if we can, but forcibly if we must." our new-fangled poUtics, are highly delighted. Their interests are at COMPACT FOR PROTECTION BY NAVIGATION LAWS. tended to-at Washington. When it is considered that a compact of union exists for ship pro Mr. Taft bas not said that our vessels should abandon all hope for tection by the very means tabooed above as "impracticable;" that the Philippine trade-it would not do to extinguish hope-but that without an amendment of the Constitution, which is not even sug "a reasonable subsidy should be paid our vessels to run In this trade." gested, it is " ship " sub.sidy that is "impractlcab~e," the bluff of the Subsidize the. domestic trade. That means to open it everywhere to commissioner looms up like the peak . of Tenerilie rlSing out of the sea. foreign vessels, helping our own from the Treasury for a few rears, 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5887- and in the- end losing all. And· the Constltution proY.ides for ship in conference to" put back again ariy little remnants of this protection by navigation laws. The domestic trade-that from one of our ports to another-be section and restore t() the bill all the obnoxious provisions, be longs wholly to our own vessels as a matter of imprescriptible .and cause the authors think they are fooling us by repeating a few absolute right. At the most, foreign ships could get only a privilege lines that are already the law. in it. It is because foreign vessels have no right in domestic trade, that they are by law excluded from lt. Evidently, our rulers who are Mr. SIMS. I am willing to vote for some of the very best willing to give up the domestic trade, as well as the foreign, to rival provisions in this bill. nations, know little about shipping rights-possibly, think none exist Mr. ADAMSON. Already the law. for American use. Mr. SIMS. Not because it might be used possibJy ns a basis RELATIONS OF THE GOVER.."'lMRNT TO OUR SHIPPING. The relationship of our National Government to our shipping trade on which the other body might put in something I do not want. Is closer than exists in any other country. Besides the usual rela We do not have to accept any such amendment if the Senate tion involving protection of government on one side and allegiance of should so amend it. Now, I do think that it is wholesome legis subject on the other, American shipping has a special claim to protec lation, if we have the power, to so legislate as to prevent one tion from a compact for "navigation laws" provided for in the Con ·Stitution. No other industry is thus favored. The relationship ls competing corporation from buying the stock of another or like that of guardian and ward. Not only is the Federal Government having directors in a competing company. in duty bound to foster and protect by law, against ruination by for I favor the amendment as reported . by the committee; the eign competition, but the Government itself is under obligation, by the principle of fidelity, to bestow its patronage upon ships of our flag. amendment of the gentleman from Texas [l\Ir. RussELL], in A guardian can not, in decency, employ a ship of foreign flag in prefer which he provides tllat directors in one corporation shall not be ence to one flying "Old Glory "-neither in decency nor in loyalty to directors in another competing corporation. We have got to our Republic. A guardian can not, in law nor morals, neglect, appro priate, or waste the estate of a ward, as these acts would be in con vote to retain legislation which we do approve, and which the tra ve.ntion of the compact, as well as against a sQund public policy. country demands, and if it can possibly be used as a hook on Government carriers can not be foreign vessels, except in violation of which to hang legislation in conference in the other body, we are this compact and this rightful policy. Relations and rights are mu tual and reciprocal, and more sacred than treaties. The only de not obliged to, and need not, accept the conference report finally fense of the Government for the employment of foreign ships, is in the made, providing for legislation the House does not approve necessity that knows no law; but our Government is barred from plead and does not want. Therefore I believe that the good portion ing a necessity that it has itself created. all Why, then, does the Government trample upon its obligations to of section 12 should remain, and when we vote to strike out American shipping? Why does it not cease its oppression and injustice? -of the merger provision we should accept the rest of the section. Navigation is a national interest. Government injustice toward it is a Mr. MANN. I yield two minutes to the gentleman from crime against oux Republic. The treason of Benedict Arnold was a Massachusetts. trivial thing-to give up a single fort-compared with the treason of recent years-the surrender of the ocean to our rivals, with ronsequent Mr. WASHBURN. :Mr. Chairman, in some remarks I made dependency on them in peace and in war, upon their shipbuilders and yesterday upon the substitute for section 12, which I proposed, owners for supply vessels for our navy and carriers of our commerce; I stated that I should offer another amendment to tlle section upon their merchants to conduct it; upon their underwriters to cover it ; upon their bankers to finance it; upon their markets. to receive and providing for the renewal of the existing leases. I now offer distribute our exports; all these interests to fix their own prices, regard that amendment. less of the principles of statesmanlike government. Can we go back to foreign dependency without giving up liberty, union of States, national The CHA.IBM.AN. The gentleman from Massachusetts offers life, and other ideals distinctly American. an amendment, which the Clerk will read. And now let our supplications ascend for better government and The Clerk read as follows: higher regard for industrial l'ights, !or a renewal of a patriotic spirit throughout our Nation, for a revival of national sentiment among our Insert after the word "director," in line 21, page 76, the following: rulers at Washington, to the end that the marine in foreign trade shall "Provided, however, That nothing herein contained shall operate to receive justice from Congress in the fulfillment of the compact for prevent the renewal of any lease of a railroad or water line, made on "navigation laws," for lack of which the Republic is already suffering or before January 1, 1910, for a term of not less than twenty years in character and estate, while its former glory is passing away, but ~~~ w~~ the lessee shall be in possession at the time of the passage will yet be restored, let us hope, though it should prove in vain to rally expectation in this year of grace. l\Ir. M.A.l~N. I hope the gentleman will use some of his time. l\fr. l\IANN. Mr. Chairman, I yield five minutes to the gen Mr. ADAMSON. I yield ten minutes to the gentleman from tleman from Tennessee [Mr. SrMs]. Alabama [Mr. RICHARDSON], or such part of that time as he l\Ir. SI.l\fS. Mr. Chairman, if I understand the parliamentary may desire to use. situation, it is as follows: The gentleman from Illinois [l\1r. Mr. RICHARDSON. Mr. Chairman, I differ very decidedly MANN] offers an amendment to section 12. The gentleman from the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. SIMS] in his opinion from Iowa [l\Ir. HUBBARD J offers an amendment to that amend about section 12 of this bill. I shall vote for the motion made ment, and the gentleman from Massachusetts [l\fr. WASHBURN] by the gentleman from Iowa [lli. HUBBARD] on yesterday to offers a substitute for the amendment of the gentleman from amend section 12, and then I shall vote to strike out the entire Illinois [Mr. MANN], or is it a substitute for the entire section section. I believe that section 12 is the "central figure" in the numbered 12, I will ask the gentleman? "legislative programme" of the President, and it is a "central l\fr. NORRIS. I would like to call the attention of the gen figure" of great importance. I support the amendment of the tleman to the fact that the substitute is not pending. It was gentleman from Iowa because it does mollify some of the harsh ruled to be out of order at the present time. and objectionable provisions of section 12 and leaves 'untouched Mr. SIMS. And then the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. some of the most objectionable provisions of the offending sec ADAMSON] gi\es notice that when we are through with amend tion. If the amendment carries, I shall then vote to strike out ments to section 12, howe\er it may be amended, he will move as an entirety section 12. I say I believe that, because when to strike out the section as amended. I am on both sides of that section is studied and weighed and investigated carefully these amendments, to some extent. I am certainly in favor of in connection with the six provisions of the bill embracing the retaining section 12, or the amendment of the gentleman from commerce court, it will be distinctly understood, in my opinion, Illinois [Mr. MANN], all the portions of said section that pro that if you strike out section 12, as the gentleman from Georgia hibit the acquiring of stock by a competing railway corporation has already very properly given notice he will move to do, you in another railway corporation. I think that is wholesome and will practically eliminate the commerce court and leave it with proper legislation. I do not think that we ought to strike out out business. It is section 12 that is expected to create and all of section 12 if we can so am~d it as to strike out all the provide business, to give the appearance of necesslity for the pro-risions of section 12 that authorize the mergeTs. commerce court. As I understand the amendment of the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Chairman, I am opposed to sections 12, 13, and 14, be ft is to strike out all of section 12, e\en as amended by the cause I am guided in that opinion by the minority opinion of gentleman from illinois, authorizing the merger, whether ap the Supreme Court in the Northern Securities case. I have had proved by the court or by the commission. I think the amend occasion to refer to that case before, and it seems to me that it ment of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN], which substi settles the sections 12, 13, and 14. I will read a paragraph tutes the commission for the court, is a decided improvement from that decision now : in the bill as.. reported. But, . being ·opposed to authorizing The plenary authority of Congress over interstate commerce, its right mergers at all, either by the court of commerce or by the Inter to regulate it to the fullest extent, to fix the rates to be charged for the movement of interstate commerce, to legislate concerning the ways state Commerce Commission, or in any manner whatever, I and vehicles actually engaged in such traffic, and to exert any and sl!'all vote for the amendment of the gentleman from Iowa [l\Ir. every other power over such commerce which flows from the authority HUBBARD]. But if this section 12 is so amended as to strike conferred by the Constitution, is thus conceded. But the concessions thus made do not concern the question in this case, which is not the out all authorizations for mergers, then I am certainly opposed scope of the power of Congress to regulate commerce, but whether the to the amendment as · proposed by the gentleman -from Georgia power extends to regulate the ownership of stock in railroads, which {Mr. .ADAMSON] to strike out the Eection, if we can so amend it, is not commerce at all. an'.l let the good pro-risions remain. This extract clearly declares that while the power of Congress Mr. ADAMSON. Will the gentleman yield! over interstate commerce is undisputed and plenary, to ex l\fr. SIMS. Certainly. tend that power to " the ownership of stock" in railroads is not · Mr. ADAMSON. Then you are willing to block the efforts admissible, simply for the reason that capital stock in the hands to defes.t this legislation and allow the Senate an opportunity ----- of common carriers, railroads or individuals, does not con- 5888 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE .. MAY 6, stitute " commerce at all." Of course I am advised the extract bill cam·e before this House and the country- and invoked the I have read comes from a minority of the court, in which two or fierce criticism that we have heard. It has added to the unrest more judges of the court joined, as I am now advised. But and dissatisfaction of the public. The tendency of the country that does not interfere in the least in an application of the same is to go back to constitutional methods in all matters pertain principle to the sections of this bill that propose to regulate ing to the affairs of the Government. The people understand capital stock in railroads either as to acquisition, issuance that it is more than idle at this time of distress that either merger, or consolidation. ' the President or his Attorney-General wanted or invited amend The majority opinion of the court does not contradict that in ments. The bill was considered "par excellent" when it came the least, because it says: from the Attorney-General, and he was certainly satisfied with It does not- his work. The fact is, no, practical business reason has yet been vouchsafed why the commerce court should be substi Speaking of the position of the Gov-ernment in the Northern tuted for the circuit courts of the country in the adjudication Securities case-- of railroad cases or business. In fact, wherever you may go contend that Congress may control the mere acquisition or the mere you will find that a grave, creeping suspicion has spread from ownership of stock in a state corporation engaged in interstate com merce. Nor does it contend that Congress can control the organization the Halls of Congress, from Washington, throughout the of state corporations authorized by their charters to engage in inter country that it is best for the people in the administration of state and international commerce. their affairs to authorize the creation of no "special courts" That is an extract from the opinion of the "majority" of the made solely to try a certain class of cases. It is true we court, or I should more properly say the "opinion of the court," create patent courts, appraisement courts, and customs courts, and even that opinion does not take issue with the minority but do such co.urts move in the same sphere, on the same opinion rendered by Mr. Justice White. I ask what is the neces level, with the extensive railroad interests that the com sity, under these circumstances and conditions, with that feature merce court takes exclusive charge of? When the country of that decision staring us in the face? I earnestly ask why fully realizes, which it is rapidly grasping, what it means for should we incorporate in this bill these provisions in reference a court to annul and set aside the order made by the Interstate to capital stock? It seems to me the Supreme Court of the Commerce Commission declaring that a rate fixed by the rail United States could just as well have said that Congress has roads is unjust and unfair to the people, then the character, the same authority to take charge of t;he Baldwin Engine Works, the power, and the importance of this special commerce court that manufacture engines to be used on ·railroads, that are un will be understood. This struggle that we have witnessed here questionably " instrumentalities of commerce," and say when for weeks past, and that comes up from the people, is but a they shall be sold and what price they shall sell their engines public expression that the three great departments of our for. Go"\'"ernment must be conducted as our fathers intended they You might just as well take the car shops where the cars are should be--free and independent of each other and uninfluenced made for purposes of transportation over railroads and say to by each other. the owners of them, "You must obey our dictation as to when Mr. ADAMSON. I yield five minutes to the gentleman from you shall sell your cars and at what price." Why, everybody Missouri [Mr. CLARK]. [Applause.] concedes that a car is an "instrumentality of commerce." Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Mr. Chairman, I want to congratu Hardly anyone, in the face of this Northern Securities case, late the House and the country on the fact that this bill, will really contend that capital stock of a railroad is a sub whether good or bad, when we get through with it, will have ject of interstate commerce to be regulated by Congress. been made in the open, in the presence of the American people. But, to hasten on, the discussion of this case has brought to This is becoming a deliberative body, and I wish to congratu us a very valuable Iesson, in my opinion. This government " ad late both sides of the Interstate Commerce Committee on the ministration" bill, following in the wake of the discussion that ability with which they have conducted this debate. The other brought on the revolution that took place on the floor of this day the gentleman from Illinois [1\Ir. ?If.ANN], as the newspapers House by which the Rules Committee was stripped of its poten said, made a rather tart reply to me when I suggested that the tial powers-the co.untry was not prepared to admit the pro Senate had stricken out section 7. priety or the advisability of a bill coming into Congress in the l\Ir. MANN. I hope the gentleman did not consider it tart. manner in which this one came, as the "administration· ~ bill, Mr. CLARK of l\Iissouri. Oh, no. What I was trying to do as the "President's bill;" dissatisfaction, criticism of the on that occasion was to indicate that when the Senate by acci: methods resorted to, has been growing from all sections of the dent does a good thing, we ought to congratulate it. [Ap country. I would be glad if anyone would point out to.me where plause.] any bill of this kind, marked and labeled and christened the 1\Ir. COX of Indiana. And ought to follow in its course. "administration bill," had ever before gone to the Interstate l\Ir. CLARK of l\Iissouri. Yes; that is true. There are a and Foreign Commerce Committee or any other committee of great many bad features in this bill ; not nearly as many as this House. Not an instance has been giYen, and the country there were when it was brought in here. We have improved it looks with suspicon on a bill that comes here under these cir considerably, and will continue to improve it. The three worst cumstances. features of it were the commerce court, which the present Chair I know it is said in defense, and said repeatedly, that the man of this committee [l\lr. BENNET] kept in the bill on three President addressed Congress in a constitutional way. He did tie votes; the proposition in section 7, to allow the carriers to utilize his constitutional authority. He did send that message. agree on rates ; and this section 12, the merger section. These Is that all? Is it not admitted here by the chairman of the three were the worst features. Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee that l\fr. Wicker No man of sense desires to hamper the railroads in the exer sham framed this bill? Is it not admitted that it was framed cise of any legitimate function, but most people think that they in the city of New York? And I say, if the President continues should be regulated wisely and sufficiently, in order that the to contend that he shall have a bill, and none other, that"recog public may receive and enjoy the best service possible. nizes the right of pooling and consolidating parallel lines that I am going to vote for the amendment offered by the gentle compete with each other, exempting the same from the penal man from Iowa [l\fr. HUBBARD], in the first instance, on this ties of the antitrust law, he will easily convince the country that section, which will knock out part of section 12. I would not corporate influences have great influence in his Cabinet. I say vote for that but for the chance that if we do not vote for it I believe that will be the result of it, and I think this discussion the section would stay in in its entirety. After that amendment has been of a most wholesome character. It will be valuable to is in, I am going to vote to knock out the entire section. The us, for the reason that I do not think we will ever hear of an way that some sections have been amended here is on the prin other bill being brought into the Congress named, described, ciple that the man followed in cutting off his dog's tail, a piece and christened " the President's bill." Does any fair-minded at a time, so that it would not hurt the dog. [Laughter.] man for a moment question what the effect of such an announce: What ought to be done with this section in the bill is to cut ment will be? I say it strips an independent Member Of Con the tail off close behind the ears. [Laughter.] gress of that judgment and will power that he is required to There are three propositions here formulated which a ma exercise for and in behalf of the interests of the people whom jority of the people of the United States are interested in. -A he represents. rnst majority of the people of the United States do not believe I am not unkindly criticising the President of the United that there ought to be any agreement between .railroads at all, or States, but I am simply entering a proper protest against the that they ought to be permitted, and the gentleman from Illi mode adopted to bring this bill before the Commerce Committee nois [Mr. MANN]. with all his ability as a debater and a precise of this House and before this House. We have broken down user of words, never did explain to this House really that there during this session of Congress the authority of the Rules Com was any substantial difference between giving them a right to mittee, and the people are hopeful that Members on the floor agree on rates and pooling. · of this House will be allowed hereafter to exercise their con The truth about it is that agreeing on rates is pooling pro stitutional rights. It was at this particular juncture that this tanto. And the next proposition that the people of the United • 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5889 States bad engaged their minds about ls tbe proposition of a Therefore it is provided that where one road seeks to pur merger. They are utterly opposed to mergers of competing chase another, or stock in another, it may enter into an agree lines. Tbe truth about the whole business is tbat the first six ment with that other road, a written and signed agreement, sections of the bill, providing for a commerce court, ought to go containing a proviso that in case it shall be determined by out. We failed by a tie vote to knock them out by amendment, the commerce court that those roads are competitive, are di but we may be able to do it by a motion to recommit the bill rectly and substantially competitive, then in that case that with insh·uctions. sale shall not proceed, that agreement shall not be completed If you leave in a shred of section 12 of this bill it is just as into a h"ansfer of property. But gentlemen say that is deter plain as the nose on your face what will happen, and if you mining in advance the question which could be better deter want the thing to happen then vote to keep a part of this sec mined after a sale had been consummated. I differ from gentle tion in. If you do not want it to happen, strike it all out. If men who hold to that opinion, and for this reason : I submit you leave any portion of section 12 in this bill, when the con that in either case, whether the matter is to be determined on ferees get together they will agree to put in all of section 12, this agreement in advance or after a sale has been undertaken mucb of which is exceedingly obnoxious. and consummated, without recourse to the court, it will be the Who will be the conferees on the part of the House? Just as same Department of Justice which attacks the proceeding in certain as the world stands, unless he refuses to go on himself, either case. Therefore it becomes a question as to when is the the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] will be the leader of proper time for this question to be determined. It seems to me the House conferees. And the gentleman from Illinois wants that when the case is fresh, before it has been complicated, section 12 substantially to stay in. I suppose the gentleman before the issuance of any stocks and bonds and those stocks from Pennsylvania [Mr. WANGER] will be with him, and the gen and bonds have been placed in the hands of innocent purchasers, tleman from Georgia [Mr. .ADAMSON], and anyhow it will be it may be, and thus equitable and complicated new interests two to one. created. Then, at the very beginning, and before any offense has There is no one here who believes that the Senate of the been committed, is the time to act. If the Attorney-Genera.I United States ever did want section 12 in its substance to stay does his duty-and I am assuming that he will do his duty-he out of the bill ; and so you have got four conferees dead sure can better do that at the beginning than he can after the sale pop out of the six in favor of the proposition, and I think you has b'een consummated and the transaction has been closed and will have one more. new interests involved. Mr. SIMS. Will the gentleman yield? I repeat, in my judgment it is in the interest of the people Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I will. of this country that railroad extension should occur. We can Mr. SIMS. The gentleman does not object to the legislation all of us remember a time when what is now a great railroad as contained in the first part of section 12, prohibiting one com system extending across the country was made up of short peting road from buying stock in another? individual lines. The expense to the people was very much Mr. CLARK of Missouri. No; I am in favor of that; but greater than it is a.t present. Railroad travel was infinitely wbat I object to is to giving the conferees any chance whatever greater under those circumstances, and the counh"y welcomed to resurrect and reinstate section 12 in the bill, and the only the day when consolidations were made, and great systems of way to get rid of it is to put it clear out. That will settle it. railroads created out of a number of independently operated [Applause.] roads. So, I say, assuming that this is necessary to the wise Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I yield fifteen minutes to the administration and operation of railroads, assuming that proper gentleman from Michigan [Mr. TowNsEm>]. combinations are in the interest of the people, we present the Mr. TOWNSEND. Mr. Chairman, several gentlemen who provision. have opposed section 12 bave either stated clearly and posi Gentlemen said yesterday that because we inserted some tively or else intimated that it would permit a merger of com provisos at the end of the section we practically admitted that peting lines. It seems to me that nobody can read that section there might be cases where mergers between competing lines and conclude tbat it is possible for such a thing to happen. If would be permitted. There are cases-and no one who has gentlemen, as a broad proposition, think one road ought not to studied this question can doubt it-where there might be a buy another road, whether competing or not, if they state that violation of this law which would not be a violation ot the it is not in the interest of the public to extend lines and estab Sherman antitrust law, and vice versa. Therefore it might be lish systems, that is one thing. But I submit that the people possible to have a combination or an agreement or conh"act in of the United States belie\e that it is for the interests of the restraint of trade which would not be prohibited by this law, people to have consolidation of lines into systems, providing and acts prohibited by this law might be lawful under the that competition is not disturbed by such consolidation. Sherman law, and so we expressly provide that nothing per Now, this bill goes further than the Sherman antitrust law. mitted under this provision shall relieve from the operation of I think gentlemen can readily imagine cases where lines in com the antitrust law. In other words, we do not interfere with petition in the way proposed, directly and substantially, might that law in any particular. be combined so as not to violate the terms of the Sherman I did not quite agree with the first statement of the gentle antitrust law. It is certainly clear that a competing line could man from Massachusetts [Mr. WASHBURN], in answer to the buy less than a controlling share in a competing line and not gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HuBBABD], when he stated that a be in violation of the Sherman antitrust law. determination by this court would not be res adjudicata in any Under section 12 in this bill it is not possible for one line case which might possibly arise under the Sherman antitrust ·which is substantially competitive with another to buy that law. If the question at issue in the commerce court was other road or any stock in that other road. This is a distinctly whether the roads were directly and substantially competitive, new proposition and thereby enlarges the principle of the Sher and that the court decided that the roads were not directly and man antitrust law. substantially competitive, such decision would be decisive, if But gentlemen say that if any portion of the section is in that particular question was raised in any court under the cluded in the law it will furnish something upon which a con Sherman antitrust law or any other law of the United States. ference committee may work to put in some provision that will Mr. HUBBARD of Iowa. That was the extent of my question. be undesirable. In any case this, House has conh·ol of a con Mr. TOWNSEND. I was quite sure the gentleman from ference report, and I do not believe that any conference com Massachusetts did not understand the question of the gentleman mittee is going to go contrary to the expres ed wishes of the from Iowa, or else I did not understand him. The decision House; but we are anticipating trouble. This thing should of a court has the effect of an estoppel, so far as the thing be settled upon its merits. Is it or is it not a good thing to litigated is concerned. Such is the effect of an ordinary judg prohibit one railroad from acquiring a competitive road or ment; such would be the effect of a decision by this court. The stock in a competitive road? If we settle that in the affirmative, decision of a court is for the purpose of settling for all time and thus proceed in line with the policy on which we have the matter in issue. " embarked in regulating railroads, then section 12 ought not Now, Mr. Chairman, I have felt that it was good policy to to be voted out of the bill. This is a radical departure; it allow the court to determine this question in ad\ance rather is a step which has never been taken before. The section im than the commission, because a decision of the court would be poses restrictions upon railroads as to the purchase of other a finality. lines, and this may materially interfere with the extension of It would determine. the question of competition ; that is, existing lines into systems which the business of the country whether the roads entering into the merger were directly and demands. It occurred to us that it might be well to determine substantially competitive. It is a question which eventually in advance, if it were possible, whether any proposed ac must be determined by the court, if questioned, and I submit quisition is in conflict with the intent and the spirit of this that if the roads are not directly and substantially competitive, secti9n 12 or with its first paragraph. and those are the only ones which could lawfully combine under XIV-369 • 5890 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, this section, they should be permitted to do so unencumbered by ernment had been confronted with an estoppel, that those two any shadow of illegality. The object of determining this mat roads were not directly and substantially competitive, does ter in advance is to facilitate operations, to avoid difficulties anyone suppose that the decision in the Northern Securities and to prevent trouble. This determination by the court ca~ case would have been the decision that was rendered? It is an be had better at the beginning, when all the facts are before essential fact in every case under the Sherman law as to whether it and there is no confusion of issues. There is no use of go competition exists, and if the Government is confronted in the ing into hysterics over this section. It is easily understood first instance with an admission that they are not directly and and only those who want to find difficulties need be deceived'. substantially competitive, the Government's case in ninety-nine Gentlemen have set up men of straw to knock down, but the cases out of one hundred falls to the ground. fact remains that this is a sane provision. We, as intelligent l\Ir. Chairman, the committee in both the original bill and in legislators, ought to act upon propositions without prejudice and this amendment proposed by the gentleman from Illinois [l\Ir. according to reason. It is simply the question of permittincr MANN] do recognize in the last proviso that this does affect the the court to determine a civil matter with all the facts at hand Sherman law. Let me read the last provision : or of waiting for an unlawful merger to be made and then at And provided f1trther, That the right to so apply to said Interstate Commerce Commission shall not extend to any railroad corporation now tack it in the criminal court. Which is the wiser thing to do? holding stock in any other railroad corporation in violation of any act [Applause.] of Congress, including the said act approved July 2, 1890, which hold.in!? The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Michi "'an is the subject or in anyway involved in any suit or action pending m: has expired. "' the date of the passage of this act. Mr. ADAMSON. · How much time haye I remaining, Mr. Why, Mr. Chairman, if this. section does not affect the Sher Chairman? man law, why have they prohibited in this last proviso any rail The CHAIRMAN. Nine and a half minutes. road that is now holding stock in violation of that law from Mr. ADAMSON. I yield that time to the gentleman from making this application either to the court or to the Interstate Wisconsin [Mr. LENROOT]. Commerce Commission? So much, Mr. Chairman, for the legal l\Ir. LENROOT. Mr. Chairman, I favor the amendment pro proposition involved. posed by the gentleman from Iowa, and I propose to discuss One other observation: If this Congress is to permit this pro that amendment, together with the amendment proposed by the cedure in the ca.se of railroads, to be consistent we ought to pass gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN]; but before doing that I a law that would permit any corporation proposing to combine wish to say just a word with reference to the amendment in with any other corporation to make application, we will say, to the form of a substitute proposed by the gentleman from Mas the Bureau of Corporations here in Washington in advance of sachusetts· [Mr. WASHBURN] . While I would condemn his the combination, to determine whether or not that proposed cor substitute in the strongest language of which I am capable, I poration is in violation of the Sherman law, and make the find wish to commend him for his frankness, for his substitute does ing of the Chief of the Bureau of Corporations conclusive and that directly which, in my opinion, the amendment proposed by an estoppel between the Government and the corporations in the gentleman from Illinois and the original bill does indi volved. Is there anyone in this House to-day who would favor rectly. The gentleman from Massachusetts very frankly says such a proposition for a single moment? in his amendment that these agreements under this section, I doubt if there is a Member in this House who would con when approved by the Interstate Commerce Commission, shall sider that proposition for a minute. And a little further : Let be lawful, notwithstanding the Sherman antitrust law. One u·s suppose that the labor unions of this country should come other matter in reference to his amendment, however. He pro to Congress and propose a bill to the effect that upon the ques poses this: That if an action has been brought to enjoin a tion of whether they are in violation of the Sherman law or proposed acquisition in the federal court, and before the federal not they be permitted to make application to the Chief of the court has decided that question, that if the Interstate Com Bureau of Labor and secure a determination from him as to merce Commission shall decide that the railroads involved are whether those labor unions are in violation of the antitrust not directly and substantially competitive, that in that case law or not, and make the finding of that chief conclusive the action in the federal court shall be dismissed, and I want and an estoppel between the parties. There would be much to .ask any lawyer in this body whether any administrath'"e more reason in that proposition than the pending one. I am body by any decision of fact has any right or power to control inclined to think there are some men in this Chamber who the action of the courts of the United States with reference to would stop and hesitate long before favorably considering any the decisions which they may make. So much for that amend proposition that would tear down the Sherman antitrust law ment. Now, in reference to the original section and the amend without the fullest consideration and most mature delibera- ment proposed by the gentleman from Illinois, the part which tion. · . is sought to be stricken out by the amendment of the gentleman Again, Mr. Chairman, the proposition to have this Interstate from Iowa permits these carriers to come either to the court in Commerce Commission pass upon this question, while I believe the original bill and the Interstate Commerce Commission in preferable to the original position, is incapable, in my judg the amendment and secure a determination in advance as to ment, of being practically put into operation. We are loading whether· or not the carriers are directly and substantially com down this Interstate Commerce Commission now with more petith'"e. work than any seven men on earth can possibly and properly I insist, Ur. Chairman, that a decision upon that question of perform. And yet we propose to place upon those seven men, fact does have a most material bearing upon the Sherman anti in addition to all the duties heretofore imposed upon them, the trust law. Let us suppose here are two carriers, in fact com duty of deciding these very great and important questions, and peting, but they come in before the commission in this most I fear if we do impose those duties these important questions peculiar way, first appearing as complainants, but when they will be decided, not by the commission-because they will not get before the commission appear as defendants, with no time have the time to decide them-but by subordinates in the office upon the part of the Attorney-General to make a necessary in of the Interstate Commerce Commission. [Applause.] vestigation, and he is haled before this body and compelled to The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. defend, and because of lack of preparation, inability to secure Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, how much time have I remain evidence, this Interstate Commerce Commission may find that ing? the carriers are not directly and substantially competitive, when The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has seventeen minutes re they in fact are. maining. Afterwards an action is brought against these carriers for a Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, the Sherman antitrust law has violation of the Sherman law. Now, what is the first thing that frequently been alluded to in this debate in rather indefinite the Government is confronted with in this action? It is this language. No one has pretended to call attention, so far as I finding of the Interstate Commerce Commission that these roads have heard, to precisely what it provides. I am going to take are not directly and substantially competitive. That in every the opportunity to call attention to the language of the first case under the Sherman law is one of the primary and most part of the law: Every contract, combination in tbe form of trust or otherwise or essential facra in the case. conspiracy in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States In the Northern Securities case, with which we are all or with foreign nations is hereby declared to be illegal. familiar, the court says: That is tbe gist of the Sherman antitrust law, followed by Summa.riz1ng the principal facts, 1t ls indisputable upon thls record penalties, and by authority on the part of the Attorney-General that under the leadership of the defendants Hill and Morgan the stock holders of the Great Northern and Northern Pacific Railway corpo1·a to sue to restrain its violation, and authority on the part of in tions, having competing and substantially parallel lines from the Great dividuals who are injured to sue also. L.akes and the Mississippi to the Pacific Ocean at Puget Sound, combine- The gist of the Sherman antitrust law is as to a contract, . And so forth. combination in the form of a trust or otherwise, or conspiracy ·. What were the two essential facts? One, the combination; in restraint of trade. No one will pretend, I think, that that and, second, that these roads were directly and substa:ijtially would prevent the keeper of one grocery store in Washington competitive. If we could assume that in this case the Gov-. from purchasing groceries at another store; and I think no . l 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5891 one will contend that that would prevent the keeper of one Mr. MANN. There has .been no conviction under the penal grocery store in Washington from purchasing a grocery store in provision of the Sherman antitrust law so far as I know. They New York City. I think no one will contend it will prevent the are very scarce if there are any; but that does not make· any owner of one gTocery store in Washington from purchasing an- difference. Now, what is the proposition before the House? other grocery store in Washington, unless it is clearly shown The proposition in the bill is to have this determined by the that that purchase is in restraint of trade, which probably it court of commerce. That is the proposition recommended by the would be impracticable to show. - committee. I can see objection to that myself. To have the Now, when you come to apply that to railroads, no one will court of commerce determine whether two roads are directly contend, I take it, that anything in the Sherman antitrust law and substantially competitive, upon the application of the rail will operate any more severely against railroads than it will roads, means that the court must determine along the line of against the owners of grocery stores. . They are all on a par. evidence which is presented to it under the usual practice, where When this is applied to railroad corporations, I think no one the court is confined to the legal evidence presented to it. The can contend that under the Sherman antitrust law a railroad court can not determine a proposition of fact upon knowledge is prohibited from purchasing the stock in some other railroad which is inherent in the mind of the judge. It can not deter company, if it does not result in restraint of trade. That may mine a question of fact upon iiiformation which the judge has be a question of fact, to prove. It never has been so applied, acquired through long experience in trying cases. A court must probably never will be attempted to be so applied. Since the determine a question of fact upon the evidence which is pre Sherman antitrust law was passed railroad companies all over sented to it, and which may be reviewed by a higher court. The the United States have purchased stock in otlier railroad cor- proposition which I have presented is that the Interstate Corn porations, sometimes to the detriment, possibly, of the public, merce Commission, in daily contact with the railroads of the often to the benefit of the public. It has nowhere been held country, in daily contact with the questions arising out of corn tha t anything in the Sherman antitrust law forbids such a pur- petition and rate making, in daily contact with the reports from chase. the railroads of the country, in daily contact with the shippers Now we present to you a proposition which goes much further of the country, may be appealed to to determine the question of than the Sherman antitrust law, and which forbids absolutely fact whether the two roads are directly and substantially com the purchase of stock of one railroad corporation by another petitive. railroad corporation, if they are practically or substantially The Interstate Commerce Commission will hear evidence pre competitive. When the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, a few sented both for the railroad companies and the Government; years ago, purchased the minority stock in the Baltimore and but in its decisions it is not confined to the evidence before it. Ohio Railroad Company, it was not in restraint of trade, and It may act in those cases as it acts in other cases-upon its the Sherman antitrust law did not apply. But this proposition knowledge of the situation. The Interstate Commerce Commis which we have in the bill would apply. Is it a desirable thing sion knows, without evidence being presented, that the Penn fo have in the law? sylvania Railroad and the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad are Gentlemen on the other side of the aisle have announced, a directly and substantially competitive. It knows in almost majority of them, through the committee, that they propose to every case in advance whether two roads are directly and sub vote to strike out that provision of· the bill. We have now in stantially competitive. I propose to leave it to the Interstate this section of the bill another provision-t-hat if two rail- Commerce Commission to determine the mere question of fact roads are directly or substantially competitive, they shall not whether two roads are.directly and substantially competitive. have the same board of directors or the same officers. That is Mr. COX of Indiana. Do you provide for an appeal? absolutely a new provision of law, and, so far as affecting rail- Mr. l\fANN. I provide for no appeal. I do not wish to-lean road competition is concerned, the most important provision to it to the court at all, where it must be determined upon the preserve competition that has ever been written into a bill and technical evidence presented in the case. The Interstate Com· presented to Congress, in my opinion. But gentlemen propose merce Commission is qualified to judge whether two roads are to strike that out. directly and substantially competitive. In this bill we leave Now I come to a provision which I have offered to the bill, to the Interstate Commerce Commission the power to change all not by direction of the committee. I do not offer it as a com- the rates in the United States. We leave to the Interstate mittee amendment, and no Member of the House needs to feel Commerce Commission the power to change all the classifica that he is at all morally or otherwise bound to support that tions in the United States, all the regulations and practices proposition. As it was proposed I believe it has the support, of all the railroads in the United States. We give to them the or did have, of a majority of the members of the committee, greatest power that has been given to any body since the world and the matter was expressly left open, as shown by the report began, so far as governmental agencies are concerned, at least in . upon the bill, when the bill was reported to the House. We bl' have put into the bill a stringent provision, designed to prevent a repu ic. Now, I think we can safely trust to the Interstate Commerce mergers between railroads in competition, so that no railroad Commission the determination of the mere fact whether two can purchase the stock of another road, and no officer of one road can serve as an officer of a competing road. So that it is roads which may seek to merge are competitive, directly and absolutely necessary to define some conditions by which the substantially. Take, for instance, the little feeders ·of a Jarge tt b d t · a G l h s railroad system. The people of a community desire to have a ma er can e e ermme · ent emen say t e herman anti- railroad extended into their midst. They help to raise the trust law does that. Not at all. The Sherman antitrust law does not cover the question. How do we propose to cover it? money for that purpose. It is of little value to them unless they There is one of two ways in which the matter can be settled- make connections with some great railroad system. There is either by application in advance to a court or the commis- no real, substantial competition between such a feeder and the sion, or to wait until you try it under the penal provisions of large railroad, but under the provisions of the bill, without the statute. Which do you think is the more likely to result in the amendment which I have offered, no such railroad company fairness to the people? If you provide for the determination would dare to acquire any stock in such a feeding connection of this matter by a court or the commission, you determine it in order that it might and probab1y would make through rates by civil procedure in the courts, or by proceedings now avail- and reduce the rates. able in the Interstate Commerce Commission; but if you leave l\Ir. RICHARDSON. I understood the gentleman to say that it to be settled by a penal proceeding, everyone who knows the reason he gave the Interstate Commerce Commission full enough to go in out of the rain to keep from getting wet knows and complete authority in his amendment was that he did not that it is much harder to obtain a conviction under such condi- want the court to have anything to do with it. We have given tions in the criminal court, where every presumption is in favor the right of appeal, while we have granted all that power to the of the defendant, than to have it determined under the law of Interstate Commerce Commission-- civil procedure. Which do you prefer? Claiming on this side Mr. MANN. I get the gentleman's idea. We do not give the of the House-the Democratic side-that you are in favor of a right of appeal to the court on matters of rates, and so forth. strict enforcement of this law, you propose to have it enforced The Constitution of the United States gives that, and in all the only by penal proceedings, where it will be difficult to obtain provisions we insert in the law we endeavor to curb it. We do convictions, and where up to date no conviction has ever been not confer any power, but we seek to make the action of the obtained so far as I recall. Interstate Commerce Commission in all these matters as abso- Mr. GILLESPIE. Has there been any attempt to get crim- lute as it is within the power of Congress to do. I think the · inal convictions? · · commission can be safely left to determine whether two roads Mr. .MANN. I hope the gentleman will not ask me irrelevant are directly and substantially competitive, and if you write into questions. the law a provision that any railroad shall not purchase the .l\ir. HUGHES o:t New Jersey. I do not want the gentleman stock of another road and leave it absolute, you do more to pre to state that there has not been a conviction under the Sherman vent the devel9pment of railroad enterprise and railroad build- antitrust law, because a labor union has been ·convicted. ing in the country than any other one thing you can do. '5892 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6,, I want to see the railroads supply some of the demands The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by Mr. which exist throughout the country for additional railroad ADAMSON) there were-ayes 118, noes 133. facilities under such terms as will preserve to the people com M:r. ADAMSON. l\lr. Chairman, I demand tellers. petition on the part of the railroads and as will enable the Tellers were ordered, and the Chair appointed Mr. MANN people through the commission to control the freight rates, and l\Ir. ADAMSON to act as tellers. facilities for transportation, classifications, regulations, and The committee again divided; and the tellers reported-ayes practices. 121, noes 144. The CHA1Ri\1AN. The time of the gentleman from Illinois So the amendment was rejected. has expired. The Ohair will state the parliamentary situation The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the next amend as the Chair understands it. There are a number of amend ments, offered by the gentleman from New York [Mr. SuLzEB]. ments to correct the text, not to strike out, but simply to insert. The Clerk read as follows: In the opinion of the Chair those should be voted on first. Page 75, lines 18 and 19, strike out the words "which is a common Then comes the amendment of the gentleman from Illinois to carrier; " and on page 78, line 20, strike out the words " being a com strike out and insert, to which_ the gentleman from Iowa has mon carrier." offered an amendment. As to these two amendments, the amend .Mr. SULZER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that ment of the gentleman from Iowa will be first in order, after I may address the committee for one minute on this amendment. which the amendment of the gentleman from Illinois will be Mr. l\IANN. I have no objection to that; but I ask unani- 1:n order-- mous consent for one minute in which to reply. Mr. SULZER. A parliamentary inquiry. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection 1 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. There was no objection. • Mr. SULZER. Are further amendments in order? Mr. SULZER. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of my amendment The CHAIRMAN. Amendments would be in order, but debate is to strike out, in section 12, the words "which is a common is closed. carrier." E>ery railroad company doing an interstate-com .1\Ir. SULZER. I want to amend section 12 by striking out, on merce business is a common carrier, and hence these words page 75, lines 18 and 19, the words " which is a common car are mere surplusage. Why were these words put in the bill? rier; " and also, on page 78, line 20, the words " being a com Evidently to exempt a "holding company," which is not "a mon carrier." I do this for the purpose-- common carrier;" and if the language in the bill is main The CHAIRMAN. Debate is not in order. The gentleman tained, it would exempt from the provisions of this act a "hold· from New York offers an amendment, which the Clerk will ing company" like, for instance, the Northern Securities Com 1·eport. pany. Therefore the words referred to ought to be stricken The Clerk read as follows: out, so that a "holding company," like the Northern Securities On page 75, lines 18 and 19, strike ou"t the words ' 1 which is a com Company, which may own or hold control of competing lines, mon carrier ; " and on page 78, line 20, strike out "being a common as well as every railroad company, would be ·subject to the pro carrier." visions of this act. This is a matter that may return in the Mr. SULZER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to future to plague us. Now is the time to make it clear to all. explain these amendments for one minute. If these words are not necessary, why put them in this section Mr. l\fANN. I have no objection to that, but these amend of the bill unless it is for the ulterior purpose of excluding ments do not come first, I take it. I offered an amendment to these " holding companies " from the provisions of the law? strike out a part of the section, and amendments to that part of That is all I want to say about the matter, but I sugg-est that the section would be in order first. Amendments to other parts . if the courts ultimately declare that my contention is correct of the section would not be in order until the amendment I then the loophole would cause endless confusion and litigation. offered is disposed of. Let us make it clear now. The CHAIR.llA.N. The gentleman is right to this extent: Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, a railroad corporation is not Amendments perfecting that portion of the section to which his defined in the act to regulate commerce. A common carrier amendment is proposed would be :first in order. In addition to is defined in the act to regulate commerce, and the language the amendments which the Chair has stated-by unanimous con· in the bill is "a railroad corporation, which is a common car sent a substitute is pending-and also the gentleman from Geor rier, subject to the act to regulate commerce." If the gentle· man should strike out the words "whlch is a common carrier," gia [Mi:. .ADAMSON] has given notice of an amendment to strike be would leave the whole thing in the air, and it would not out the entire paragraph. apply to anybody. Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, there is another amendment Mr. SULZER. Then will the gentleman agree to put in the of which I gave notiCe, providing that the provisions of this bill, after the words "common carrier," the words "or a hold· bill should not be held to apply to any railroad entirely within ing company?" the boundaries of a State. Mr. MANN. Oh, the gentleman had one minute to debate The CHAIRMAN. That is on the Clerk's desk. this proposition, and I took a shorter time in which to reply. Mr. l\IANN. A parliamentary inquiry. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment of The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. fered by the gentleman from New York. Mr . .1\fAj\'N. I would like to know just where we are. I The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. offered .an amendment to strike out a part of the section and The CHAIRMAN. The question now occurs on the amend· insert. Amendments to that part of the section are in order ment offered by the gentleman from Iowa [l\Ir. HUBBABD] to the first before the amendment to sh·ike out and insert. amendment offered by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN]. The CH.A.1Rl\fAN. Undoubtedly; the Chair has so stated. Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. Chairman, a parliamentary inquiry. Mr. SULZER. I renew my request for unanimous consent to The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. explain my amendment for one minute. .1\Ir. DOUGLAS. I would like to have the amendment of the Mr. ,MANN. I have no objection, if I have a minute in which gentleman from Illinois reported, and also the amendment of to reply. the gentleinan from Iowa. The CHAIRMAN. The question occurs first on the amend 'l'he CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the amendment and the ment offered by the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. WASH· amendment to the amendment will be reported. BURN], being to perfect that portion of the section which it is There was no objection. proposed to strike out and insert. Without objection, the Clerk The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment and will report the amendment. the amendment to the amendment. The Clerk read as follows : The Clerk read as follows: Insert after the word " director," in line 21, page 76, the following: Amendment proposed by Mr. MANN to section 12 of H. R. 175-36: "Prodded, hoicever, That nothing herein contained shall operate to Amend by striking out all of the section after the word " direct or,'' in prevent the renewal of any lease of a railroad or water line, made on line 21, page 76, and inserting in lieu thereof the following : or before January l, 1910, for a term of not less than twenty years "Any attempted acquisition of an interest in cnpital stock, or the under which the lessee shall be in possession at the time of the passage purchase or lease of a railroad or water line, contrary t o this section of this act." shall be void and may be enjoined by any court of competent jurisdic The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment. tion at the suit of the United States; and the holding or retention of any interest in capital stock or the a cquisition of a railroad or water The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. line contrary to this section may likewise be enjoined in any court of The CHAIRMAN. The question is now on the amendment competent jurisdiction at the sult of the United States; but any rail road or water carrier corporation, being a common carrier as afore offered by the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. .ADAMSON], which said, which proposes to acquire any interest in the capiml stock or to the Clerk will report. lease or purchase a railroad or water line of any other c.orporation may The Clerk read as follows : apply to the Interstate Commerce Commission by its petition for that Amend by adding at the end of section 12: "The provisions of this purpose, filed in advance of actual taking of such interest in capital section shall not apply to any railroad or railroads the entire line of stock or the acquisition of such ra ilroad or water line, but after an which is wholly within any one State." agreement or contract for its acquisition has been made, with a stipu lation therein that such agreement 01· contract shall t ake effect in cas~ Xhe CHAIR11IAN._ The question is on the amendment. it is found by the Interstate Commerce Commission that such ralln~ad.S 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE~ 5893 or lines are not directly and substantially competitive, to determine the The CHAIRMAN. The Chair can only rule when the amend fact whether or not such railroads or lines are directly and substan tially competitive, and the determination of the commission upon such ment is identical. Does the gentleman claim that the language a pplication shall act as an estoppel between the parties_ The Inter attempted to be inserted is identical with that which has been state Commerce Commission is hereby given jurisdiction to hear and stricken out? determine such applications and to take all proper proceed~gs there 5894 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE~ MAY 6, The Clerk read as follows: The CHAIRMAN. The question now recurs on the motion Strike out all after the words "section 12," in line 18, on page 75, of the gentleman from Georgia, to strike out all of the section, tlown to the word "nor," in line 6, page 76, and insert the following: as amended. "That no railroad or water-cat'rier corporation which is a common carrier subject to the provisions of this act shall hereafter acquire, The question was taken; and the Chair announced that the directly or indirectly, any interest of whatsoever kind in the capital "noes" seemed to have it. stock ot• the bonds of any other railroad or water-carrier corporation, Mr. ADAMSON. Division! or shall hereafter purchase or lease any railroad or water line which is directly or substantially competitive with that of the first-named cor Mr. TOWNSEND. Tellers, Mr. Chairman. poration, or shall hereafter purchase or lease any two lines, either rail Tellers were ordered. road or water lines, which are directly or substantially competitive with The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman fl·om Michigan [Mr. each other." TOWNSEND] and the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. ADAMSON] The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. will take their places as tellers. The CHAIR~1AN. The question recurs upon the two amend The committee divided, and the tellers reported-ayes 131, ments offered by the gentleman from Massachusetts [Mr. noes 128. PETERS], which, without objection, will be acted upon together. · So the amendment was agreed to. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. BORLAND. Mr. Chairman, I wish to offer an amend On page 75, line 24, strike out the words "which is directly and sub ment, to come on page 75, after line 17, to be known as sec- stantially competitive with that of such first-named corporation" and substitute In place thereof the words " 5 per cent of whose gross income tion 12. . is derived from traffic between points competitive with such first-named The CHAIR.MAN. The Clerk will report the amendment. corporation." .. The Clerk read as follows : On page 76, line 5, after the word " and," strike out the words SEC. 12. It is hereby made the duty of the commission, immediately "which is directly and substantially competitive" and insert the words upon the passage of this act, to issue an order, in manner and form as "5 per cent of whose gross income is derived from traffic between points provided in section 9 of this act, suspending the operation of all indi competitive." vidual or joint rates, fares, or charges, or classifications, regulations, or The question was taken, and the amendments were rejected. practices filed with the commission since the 1st day of January, 1910, whereby increases in the cost of carriage have been effected or proposed, Mr. DAWSON. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer an amend,,. either by increasing commodity rates or by abolishing commodity rates ment on pages 75 and 76 of the bill. and transferring the goods formerly included thereunder to classifica The Clerk read as follows : tion rates or otherwise. If such changes of rates. fares, charges, classifications, regulations, Page 75, line 24, strike out " directly and ; " page 76, line 5, strike or practices have become effective at the time of the passage of this out the words " directly and." act, the order of suspension shall have the effect of restoring a.nd making lawful the rate, fare, charge, classification, regulation, or prac The question was taken, and the amendments were agreed to. tice that was superseded by such change. The commission shall there Mr. ADAMSON. Now, Mr. Chairman, I want to move to upon, as soon as may be, enter upon a. hearing concerning the pro sfrike out section 12 as amended, following the words "United• priety of the change in such rate, fare, cbn.rge, classification, regula tion, or practice, and unless it shall bP. satisfied by affirmative evidence States," in line 4, page 77. of the propriety of such change, it shall, by proper order or proceedings, Mr. MANN. I want to make a point of order on that amend restrain or enjoin the same. Nothing herein shall raise any presump ment. tion, in law or in fact, of the reasonableness of any rate, fare, charge, classification, regulation, or practice existing on January 1, 1910, or The CHAIItl\IAN. The gentleman will state his point of prior to any change made since said date, but the reasonableness or order. propriety of any such rate, fare, charge, classification, regulation, or l\Ir. MANN. The proposition is now made to strike out lan practice shall be open to investigation under any of the provisions ot gugage which was inserted by the amendment which I offered this act. as amended. l\Ir. BORLAND. Mr. Chairman, this new section is designed The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will hear the gentleman from to reach a condition of affairs affected by the passage of this Georgia on the point of order. bill, but which can not be directly reached by any of the pro Mr. ADAMSON. I do not think the amendment of the gentle- . visions now existing in the bill. The condition with which we man from Illinois or the substitute of the gentleman from Iowa are confronted is that the railroads are now by concerted efforts or any others covered all of section 12. raising their rates all over the western territory west of Chi Mr. MANN. What is the gentleman's amendment? cago. This, of course, affects not on~y all manufactured goods l\fr. ADAMSON. My amendment is to strike out of the sec sold in that territory, but all foodstuffs, whether natural farm tion, as amended, all that which follows the words "United products or otherwise, moving eastbound from the Mississippi States," in line 4, page 77. · · River or west thereof. This section is a redraft of one that l\Ir. MANN. Oh, Mr. Chairman, I make the point of order was brought up a few days ago as an amendment to the section against that. The amendment which I offered, and which was then being voted upon. The objection then was raised that if agreed to, as amended, was to strike out all of the section after we restored or undertook to restore the rates of January 1 by line 21, on page 76. That amendment was agreed to. All that one stroke of the pen, that it would be an unconstitutional act. was stricken out, and new matter was inserted. The gentleman To that I am not prepared to agree, under the plenary powers proposes now to strike out a part of the matter which has been of Congress to regulate the rates for public carriage, but cer stricken out already, and more too. tainly no objection of unconstitutionality can be urged to this · l\Ir. ADAMSON. I think it is not all included, because I did section. not start where his began. Now, I want to call your attention briefly to the changes of l\Ir. l\IANN. But all of page 77 has been stricken out. Now, rates that have been made and the effect they are going to have. the gentleman offers an amendment to strike out part of it. I have here a statement furnished me by the Interstate Com The CHAIRMAN. The precedents are uniform that where merce Commission yesterday, which is now in type, showing the language has been inserted by a vote of the committee, it is increases of rates that are proposed to take effect on the 1st not in order thereafter to move to ~trike it out, which would day of June. Now, these rates are blanket rates. For instance, be to submit a negative to a proposition which has passed in the first list all the railroads between Chicago and tbe Mis affirmatively. Therefore the motion of the gentleman from souri River territory, nine in number, have simultaneously Georgia is not in order. raised their rjltes on every one of these products by a joint tariff l\!r. ADAMSON. I would like to amend the rules, so that filed by one agent, a man by the name of Hosmer, of Chicago. they will take care of something we have just agreed to. It is not a series of rates. There are not 14 rates here filed by Mr. HARDY. A question of order. nine different roads. It is one tariff that we are asking the com· The CHAIRl\IAl~. The gentleman will state it. mission to investigate. Here. between Kansas City and St. Mr. HARDY. Does the Chair hold that if a proposition is Louis, or rather between the.Missouri River and the l\Iississippi, amended and is then not in shape, that a motion to modify it the average raise on 14 articles has been 18 per cent, ranging is not in order? from 10 to 23 per cent. On agricultural implements, from Chi The CHAIRMA..1~. Not at all. The Chair would prefer not cago to St. Paul, there has been an increa e of from 15 to 17 to deal with such a blanket proposition ; but specifically the per cent, an adyance of 13! per cent. On brick, bullion, copper precedents are uniform, that where language has been inserted metal, cement, paving or roofing material, furniture, harness, by a vote of the ·committee it is not then in order to move to and so on, there has been an average raise, between the Mis strike out that language. sissippi and Chicago, of between 20 and 23 per cent. On agri Mr. ADAMSON. I guess we can learn where we are " at " cnltural implements from Rock Island, Ill.. to all Wisconsin if you put the motion on the question to strike the section out. points there has been another average raise of from 14 to 15 The CHAIRMAN. · That motion will be in order after the per cent. On hogs in carloads, between the MiE INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSIOY, Statement sho'loing prese-nt rates and rates to become effective Jt1ne BuREAU OF TARIFFS, 1, 1910. Washington, May 5, 1910. [In cents per 100 pounds.] Statemew: shoioing present rates and rates to become effective June 1, 1910, between Kansas City, Mo., and St. Louis, Mo. Hogs, in carloads, southbound to Chicago, when originating at points in Minnesota, North Dakota, and Montana, from which no rates are [In cents per 100 pounds.] published. Old New In- Oommodity. rate. rate. crease. Old New rate. rate. Per cent. 'Zl 32 18 Hand agricultural implements------···-----·- From South St. Paul to Chicago, hogs------··------·------ 17i 20 16 19 19 20 17 20 18 From St. Paul to Chicago, hogs __ ------··-- 171 ~!;~~~~-~~~~~----_-_-_-_-_~----~~~~~-:_=~--~--~------:::_=-_-_-:_ From Minnesota. Transfer to Ohicago, hogs ______17~ 20 Paving or roofing cement------·------ 10 12 20 From Minneapolis to Chicago, hogs______17i 20 Coal-tar pitch and coal tar------··-·------ ~ 10} 23 From Garrison, Iowa. to Peoria. bogs ______20 ' 22 10 18! ~eal food products------·----·- 20 21! 22 Dry hides, skins, and pelts----·------·------ 30 35 16 From St. Joseph, Mo., to Peoria, ~beeP------ From St. Joseph, Mo., to St. Louis, cattlC------·------J~ 17 Wrougbt-iron or steel pipe------·------·------· 13! 16 18 From St. Joseph, Mo., to St. Louis, bogs______18} Scrap iron or steeL------10 12 20 1~ Creamery machinery ______------· 24j 27 10 From St. Joseph. Mo., to St. Louis, sheeP------·-·-·- 17i 20 Banding paper_------__ ------·-·------·-- ______11 13i 23 10 12 20 17! 21 17 Same increase is shown from Atchison, Kans., and Leavenworth, 85 42 20 Kans., as from St. Joseph, Mo. (C., R. I. and P., L C. C. No. 8856, !~l~;~i~~~==:::::::::::::::::::::::::::~====~=== Supp. 2.) [itatement of ad-i;ances in rates carried in W. H. Hosme1"s I. 0. 0. A.-114, Statement showing present rates and rates to become effective May 16, ad-i;ances effecti1:e Jiine 1, 1910, in Supplement No. 4. 1910, between Chicago, nz., and Racine and Milwaukee, Wis. [In cents per 100 pounds.] CHICAGO, MILWAUKEE AND ST. PAUL RA.I .LWAY~ [In cents per 100 pounds.] Old New Ad- rate. rate. v-ance. Commodity. Old New Perunt. rate. rate. Agricultural implements. from Chicago to St. PauL •• 15 17 13.5 Brick, between St. Paul and Chicago ______12 14 16.67 Bullion, copper metal, etc., from St. Paul to Chicago_ 12.5 li.5 16 AlcQhol, high wines, whisky, in wood, C. L., minimum Cement, paving or roofing tar and pitch: weight 24.000 pounds------ JO 12 Between St. Paul and Chicago______Baskets, minimum weight 10,000 pounds, Racine to Chicago_ J2 . 15 Between Duluth and Obie.ago ______8 10 25 10 12 20 Beer, also beer tonic, hop tonic, Weiss beer, straight or Furniture, C. L., from St. Paul to Chicago______mixed, C. L., with beer------3 4 25 28.5 14 Boxes, paper,.,xninimum weight 10,000 pounds______Harness, 0. L., between St. Paul and Chicago _____ 4D 46 15 J5 20 Dry hides, from St. Paul to Chicago ______35 tO 14.2 SchoolChicago desb, ______minimum weight 20,000 pounds, Racine to_ Hides, green, salt, from St. Paul to Ohicago•• _____ 17.7 22 24.3 ~ JO Paints. from Chicago to St. Paul ______19.5 22.5 15.4 Engine, stationary or portable, C. L------·----- 7 st Strawboard. wrapping paper, etc., between St. Engine, stationary or portable, L. C. L------12 15 Gambier ______-----____ -·- ______. ___ _ 8 10 Paul and Chicago_·------·----- J7.5 20 14.28 Green hides, tallow, and stearine______Sand, between St. Paul and Chicago ______9 11 22.2 3 5 Stone, building, etc., between St. Paul and Obicago. 8 10 25 Packing-house products, and bones, minimum weight 26,000 Tar, from Chicago to Duluth.------·------14 16 14.4 pounds------5 7 Wagons, from Lake City, Minn., to St. Louis. ______20 23 15 Tinware. n. o. s., C. L., minimum weight 20,000 pounds___ _ 6 8 Wool, from St. Paul to Chicago ______Traveling bags (packed in cases, ruiy quantity), south- to 46 15 bound ___ ----__ ---______Agricultural implements, from Clinton. Iowa, and 17 20 various points in Illinois, Iowa, and Wisconsin to Trunksany quantity filled with______traveling bags and _:valises, ______released, _ St. Paul•• ------·_. __ . ______•• ___ -·------17 20 J7.6 17 20 Furniture, from Grand Rapids, Wis., ete., to St. Creosote oil. tank cars, North Milwaukee to Chicago______5 6 Paul___ ----- ___ ------_--- _--- _--- ______----- 17.5 20 J4.28 Tanning extract, 0. L., Chicago to Milwankoo------· 5 6 Granite paving blocks, from Berlin, Wis., etc., to St. Paul, etc______------·- 7 9 28.5 Green hides, from St. Paul to Merrill, Wis ______15.7 20 28 Horses and mules, C. L., between Kansas City, etc., to points in Illi , Pig iron, from Duluth, etc., to various Wisconsin nois, Iowa, and Minnesota, general advance amounting from $5 to $10 points ______------_____ ------· 4 175 16.67 per car, June 1, 1910. Fresh meats, from Eau Claire, Wis., etc., to Duluth, Increa~e in rates-Advances effective since January 1, 1910. Soap,etc.. ------·from St. Paul to Marinette, Wis ______20 23 15 17 20 17.7 (Oarload rates in cents per 100 pounds unless noted.] Stone, from St. Paul, etc., to Wiseonsin points______6 7 16.67 Sugar, from St. Paul, etc., to Wisconsin points______6 7.5 60 ADVANCED MAY 30, 1910. (Tariffs, Centra1 of New Jersey, I. 0. 0. K 671l8, D 730; St. Louis South· 0 Per ton. western, I. 0. 0. 2268, 2891, 2902, 2903, 2989, 2997:1 Present rates ana rates to b.eoom.e etrecUve June 1, 1910. SEWER PIPE, CARLOADS. From- Oommodity. Old New [In cents per 100 p.ound.s.J To- rate. rate. From- To- Old Tariff New Tariff New York, N. y ______Cockran, Pa______Pig iron______a 240 "245 rate. (I. 0. 0.). rate. (I. 0. 0.). Campbell, MO------· Chicago, DJ______Peaches______48.1 51.1 Creston. La., andsta- {St. Louis, MO------· -,---dO-----·------t5 49 tions on Louisiana East St. Louis, m_ Potatoes______25 30 Chicago, Ill.; Mon- La Orosse, Wis.; 10 Hosmer's 12 Hosmer's andNortbwestR.R. Cairo, ID------· Tomatoes______25 30 p10uth,Ill.; Gales- Marshland, Wis.; A-68. Supp.4 jSt. Louis •. Mo ______Peaches______45 49 burg, Ill.; Strea- Duluth, Minn.; Min- toA-68. Texar.kana,Ark.-Tex- lKansas City, Mo ______do______45 49 tor, Ill. neapolis, Minn.; St. Oairo, Ill------· _____ do------·------4.5 49 P aul, Minn. ____ ao _____ East St- Louis, Ill.; Duluth, Minn.; Min- 101; 12! Do. St. Louis, Mo.; neapolis. Minn.; St. ADVANCED APnIL rn:rn10. Roodhouse, ru. Paul, l\linn.; La Crosse.Wis.; Marsh- (Tariffs, Central of New Jersey, I. c_ O. K 6798, D 730; St. Louis South· land, Wis- western, I. O. 0. 2268, 2891, 2902, 2903, 2989, 2997 .] .Ohieago, DJ ______Winona, Minn ______do____ 10 11 C. &NW. Ry.No. 25 30 6"92~ 25 30 25 30 AGRICULTURAL IMPLEMENTS, HAND IMPLEl\fE~TS, CARLOADS. Old Tariff ADVANCED MAY 15, 1910. From- T~ New Tarfif rate. (I. 0. 0.). rate. (I. o. 0.). [Tariff, Union Paclfic, Sup. 2 to L 0. C. 2308, effective May 15, 1910.J Rock Island, m: Oshkosh, Wis.; Green 25 29 argo, Ark______Hay and straw, O. L. ----- (b) Peoria, Ill. Bay, Wis.; Manito------Union Paciftc R. R. ittle Roclr, Ark______do ______------(b) woe, Wis.; Eau stations in Colo- Paragould, Ark----· _____ do ______----- (!>) Claire, Wis. ______,. __ _ rado, Kansas, and tuttgart, Ark., _____ do·-----~------(") DO------·------Menomonie, Wis.; 29 33 Nebraska. and other points Marinette, Wis- . · in Arkansas. St. Louis, Mo •• _____ Oshkosh, Wis.; Eau 26 80 ~ Olaire, Wis. ------Do--··-·------·- Menomonie, Wis.; 85 S9 0 Rate in cents per ton (2,240 pounds). · Marinette, Wis. ------I'> Advanced one-hall cent per 100 pounds by advancing the di1Ierentfal over MemphJs, Tenn. 5896 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, Advances in rates since January 1, 1910. Advances in rates sface Janum·y 1, 1910. WOOL. FERTILIZER, CARLOADS. [In cents per 1qo pounds.] [In cents per ton.] Old New rate. rate. From Atlanta, Ga. From Lagrange, Ga. To- ~rom St. Paul, Minn., to New York, N. Y------ 55 65 rom Duluth. Minn.. to New York. N. Y------·------ 55 6-5 Old rate. New rate. Old rate. New rate. From St. Pan1, Minn., to Boston, Mass------ 60 70 From Duluth, Minn., to Boston, Mass------~ 70 Cook Junction, Ala ______185 220 225 260 Coosa Valley, Ala ______200 260 240 300 FRESH MEATS (DRESSED BEEF, SIIEEP, AND HOGS). 200 260 240 300 18.J 220 225 200 200 240 2«> 280 From Missouri R4ver points to Chicago, 20 23 From Missouri River points to East St. Ill------1Louis, Ill------15 I iB!~ 185 220 225 2JO Walkers~i.&iE~~~~~\\t\\\\\\t= Crossing, Ala ______200 240 240 280 200 260 240 800 BEEF AND PORK, PICKLED, AND MEATS, DRIED, N. 0. S. (LOCAL RATES). Tariff reference: Atlanta and West Point Railroad supplement No. 1 From Missouri River points to Chicago, 20 to Interstate Commerce Commission No. 734, effective June 1, 1910. From Missouri River points to East St. Ill------1Louis, Ill______15 18~23~ DECIDUOUS FRUIT, CARLOAD. Advances effective on wool June 1, 1910 ; meats, March 20, 1910. [In cents per 100 pounds.] A.d.,;ances tn t•ates since January 1, 1910. AGRICULTURAL IMPLE:UENTS (NOT HA.ND), C. L, To Que~c. Qu.,bec. [In cents per 100 pounds.] From- Old New Old rate. New rate. From- To- rate. rat.e." ---- Bock Island, I1L------Eau Claire, Wis.; 0 bko h, 20 23 Wis.; Green Bay, Wis.; etc. 23 .28 i~~J~~oi~:~~~~--~~~~~~~~~:::::~~::::::~~~-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-~~ 23 26 - ~~';!f i'aa~~b:~~~~------~~:_-_-_~----~~--~~------~~---_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_:_ Peo~~~ru.;xall:kaioo.-iiL~~~St. Louis, Mo.; East St. -~~~3~~~~~-~~~~----~--~--~~------~_____ do------~· 29 32 Louis, Ill. Do ______Green Bay, Wis.; Mani- 26 29 ~~~~ E ~~~'.siJ~h~-~-.:_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ towoc. Wis.; Wausau; &~!d~~~a1~~~~----_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_---~----_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_~-_-_-_~~----~----~~ 144 150 Wis.; etc. Preston. Idaho _____ ------______. Do______Menomonie, W~B------32 J.9 Logan. Utah .. _____ ------Brigham. Utah __ .------____ -----.. ____ . ACID, SULPHURIC, C. L., AND llIURIATIC, C. L. Hot Springs, Utah ______------· Five Points. Utah ______·------· Peoria, I1L------Osh'J;cosh, W,is.;. Gree£! Bay,J 15 17 Syracu!:e. Utah_ .. __ ------______... __ : ______------· :Wts.; Eau Clarre, Wis. Salt Lake City, Utah------St. Louis. Mo.; East St. Wausau. Wis.; Oshkosh, 16 18 Payson, U tab. ______------·------Louis, ID. Wis.; Green Bay, Wis. Peoria, IlL ______.,_____ Menomonie, Wis ______18 20 Tariff reference: Oregon Short Line Railroad supplement No. 4 to ASPHALT AND ASPHALTUM, IN SOLID FORM. Interstate Commerce Commission No. 1593, effective May 28, 1910. The situation I belie>e to be this: The railroads had in Rock Island, Ill.; Peoria, Ill.; Osh~osh. W:is.; Eau .Claire, 10 Kankakee, Ill.; etc. I W1 .; Marutowoc,W1s.; etc. I tended to take advantage of section 7, which we struck out, East St. Louis, ID.; St. Oshkosh, Wis.; Eau Olaire, 1()! and crystallize by traffic agreements between themselves rates ·Louis, Mo·. · Wis. · · ~1 in ·advance of this bill by joint action, raising the rates all o>er "Effective June 1, 1910. the western territory, controlling the price of every food prod :Ad.,;ance in. rates since January 1, 1910, horses anti nrn1es per standard uct and manufactured article used by the consumer from Chi ca1·, between St. Paul, Mfllmeapolis, and Minnesota Transfer and La cago to the Pacific coast. Under section 7 they expected to Crosse and Southeastern Railway. crystallize those into tariff agreements, and prevent the lower To- Old rate. New rate. ing of rates in that territory. But, without the aid of section 7, they at least have accom Stoddard, Wis ______------______$36.00 $39.50 plished the purpose, because these rates go into force on the Chaseburg, Wis.------___ ------__ 45.00 49.50 1st day of June simultaneously on every railroad in that part Corn Valley, Wis.------· 46.00 60.50 Westby, Wis------49.00 54.00 of the territory. Now, the only thing we are asking .is that Viroqua, Wis ______------______------__ 61.00 56.00 instead of the burden being put upon the shipper to bring the action to investigate each one of these raises in particular, the Chicago, :Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway, I. C. C. B-2136, effective lrlay 31, 1910. Interstate Commerce Commission shall exerci e its own initia Adt ances in rates since January 1, 1910. tive and investigate them all. The only objection that can be [In cents per 100 pounds.] made to that is the burden that it might put in time upon the Cement, carloads, from Erie, Pa.- Interstate Commerce Commission. But the chairman of the To Cleveland, Ohio ------6i committee will not be able to object on that ground. To Detroit, Mich ------6ii This bill contains provisions, which I hope will be stricken out, which puts upon the Interstate Commerce Commis ion much more exhaustive and impossible work than thnt; work , nthat is impossible for any body of men to do, namely, the super ~~ ~f!:i~l#~======vising of the issue of stocks and bonds of every railroad in the Effective~~ i!~~~~~~~:M~~=====~======:::::::::::::::::: May 17, 1910, the above will be advanced 2 cents per 100i~i United States and the reorganization of every road that goes pounds in each case. (Erle and W. T. Co., I. C. C. "250.) through the hands of a receiver. If that work is taken off the [In cents per 100 pounds.] Interstate Commerce Commission as it ought to be-because Iron and steel articles, carloads, from Erie, Pa.- no body of men could perform that work satisfactorily-they To Duluth______10!, advanced 1 cent. • To Superior______10!, advanced 1 cent. can then be confined to their legitimate powers of examining To Altamont group ______12, advanced to 16~ cents. existing rates to protect shippers_and consumers. Not rates To Annawan grOUP------12ll, advanced to 17~ cents. dissociated from each other, but rates as related to a joint To Atkinson groUP------12ll, advanced to 17§ cents. To Aurora group ______lOl, advanced to 13 cents. raise all over the country, by joint action of nine or ten differ '.ro Carthitge group ______12ll, advanced to 17i cents. ent systems. To Danville groUP------·------10!, advanced to 13 cents. Under one investigation the Interstate Commerce Commission 'l.'o Galva group ______12~. advanced to 16§ cents. could come very near completing, to the satisfaction of shippers, To Joliet grouP------101, advanced to 13 cents. To Kankakee group ______10;, advanced to 13 cents. producers, and consumers of the entire western territory, an To Peoria grouP------· 11, advanced to 141 cents. investigation into the cause of this extraordinary raise at this To Racine grouP------9, advanced to 14 cents. To St. Louis group ______:.._ 12~, advanced to 161 cents. time. If we now allow this thing to go on under our noses, we To St. · Paul group ______12~, advanced to 1311 . cents. will have to go back and answer to the people of that territory. To trans-Mississippi River group _____ 12§, advanced . to 161 cents. The CHAIBl\IAN. The time of the gentleman from Missouri Effective May 17, 1910. (Erie and w. T. Co., I. C. C. 250.) .. has expired~ 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5897 Mr. BORLAND. I ask unanimous consent that I may have the rates which have been filed since the 1st of January, 1910. fh-e minutes more. Suppose he had said the 1st of January, 1900. Why not? l\Ir. l\lAXN. I moYe that all debate on the amendment close Mr. BORLAND. Because there was no bill in existence at in ten minute~. I am willing that the gentleman from Missouri that time. haye five minute of it. Mr. ~ll.i"'\TN. There was n law in existence; and why not have The CHA. IIl~1AN. The gentleman from Illinois mo-ves that said the 1st of January, 1900? Why not have said if a railroad all debate on the amendment close in ten minutes. company heretofore, at any time, filed its schedule showing an The qnestion being taken, the motion was agreed to. increase of rates the Interstate Commerce Commi sion shall Mr. BORLAXD. Now, it can not be, gentlemen, that while now suspend the operation of the rate? We have just as much. we are sitting here debating the question as to whether we shall constitutional power to do that as we have to adopt the amend permit railroads to form h·affic agreements, which I believe we ment which the gentleman proposes, and in which he proposes wi ely struck out, for while it might not tend to the raising of that the Interstate Commerce Commission may "restrain and any rates I belie\e it would certainly tend against the lowering enjoin" the existing rates, a po-ver that only a court can exer of any rates for any part of the territory; while we are sitting cise. There is nowhere in the law, or a suggestion in the bill, here debating as to whether or not we will permit these traffic that the Inter.state Commerce Commission, a branch of Con agreements, it can not be that we will permit the railroads to do gress, can exercise the power of restraining and enjoining a exactly what we are trying to decide whether they shall or raise in freight rates. shall not do-th:i.t is, by agreement among thernsel\es, by a joint l\Ir. BORL.Al\TD. l\Ir. Chairman-- set of tariffs, filed by one agent, Mr. Hosmer, accomplish exactly Mr. lUANN. The gentlemau had ten minutes and I only the purpo e tl1at section 7 was designed not to allow. have firn. The record of the Interstate Commerce Commission, which Mr. BORLAND. The gentleman from Illinois should not are public property and are here in print, show that this joint overlook the language of the bill. agent of the railroads at Chicago has by one act put into force, l\Ir. MANN. If the gentleman had read the bill one-twentieth or attempted to put into force, on the 1st of June a raise in over of ·the times that I have read it, he would be more familiar two-thirds of the territory of the United States on all articles of with it. There is nothing in the bill which says that the com common consrim11tion. mission may restrain or enjoin a rate, and we can not confer So much of that raise as might be covered by a ~ per cent - that power on a legislative branch of the Government, which increuse in wages of railroad employees might be justified; but the Interstate Commerce Commission is. a rai e running from 16 to 23 per cent is not justified by a 5 Now, if we adopt a provision like this, we endanger the en per cent raise in wages. If it be justified, the railroads can tire bill. The courts will have the right to say that we have show it by affirmative evidence. Now you hm·e the proposi engrafted this provision in the bill as a harmonious part of tion to deci and undoing all day long. We have just gotten rid of an etrort proposition as to whether or not the Committee of the Whole on the part of the Federal Government to prevent-· - will have an opportunity to vote to prohibit common carriers The CHAIRMAN. Does the gentleman make the point of from purchasing stock in competing lines without at the same order that the language is identical with the language stricken time burdening it with a proviso that they may apply to a tri out? bunal for the purpose of validating such purchase. Mr. ADAMSON. It substantially is, and the nefarious part of Mr. A.DAMSON rose. this language is, that it is a meaningless imitation of the anti Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I move that all debate on the trust law and designed to enable the Federal Government to amendment close in five minutes. interfere with the operations of the States to prevent monopolies Mr. ADAMSON. I did not rise to debate it. and permit competition. Mr. MANN, We debated this section this morning. The CHAIRMAN. The precedents are uniform, and the Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have a little time. Ohair has nothing to do with the consistency of legislation; he I have been for this part of the bill all the way through. can only refuse to have an amendment reported when it is Mr. A.DAMSON. All the language of this amendment is com identical-- posed of parts of the section -which was stricken out, and Mr. ADAMSON. We can not tell whether it is or not be therefore, it seems to me, that it is out of order. cause we could not hear it v~ry well. I do not know whether The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is made to the amend it is the same language or not. ment in another form, and, although debate has commenced, The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is informed by the Clerk that without objection, the Ohair will state the reasons for the the language is not identical with the language heretofore former ruling. stricken out; therefore the amendment being in the general line On page 22 of the Manual is this quotation from Jefferson's of the regulation of commerce, as the Ohair caught it, it is in Manual: · order. · If an amendment be proposed inconsistent with one already agreed to, it is a fit ground for its rejection by the House, bu.t not within Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. But no debate is in order on the competence of the Speaker to suppress as if it were against order. this. For were he permitted to draw questions of consistence within the vor The CHAIRMAN. Certainly it is in order, and the gentle tex of order, he might usurp a negative on important modifications, and man from Washington has the floor. suppress, instead of subserving, the legislative will. Mr. POINDEXTER. Mr. Chairman, I only want to say a And in the small text on page 223 it says : word in explanation. The vote taken upon the motion made by It is- for the House rather than the Speaker to decide on the legis lative etiect of a proposition (II, 1323, 1324), and the change of a the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. A.DAMSON], who now objects single word in the t ext of a proposition is sufficient to prevent the to this amendment, would have had, if it had been in order, Speaker ruling it out of order as one already disposed of by the the effect of leaving the first paragraph of section 12 without House. (II, 1274.) the provisos. In other words, this new amendment will pre The reference there is to ilinds's Precedents, second volume, vent the purchase of stock in any competitive line of a rail section 1274. road company or in a water-carrier competitive line by a rail Mr. ADAMSON. I did not intend to be contentious about road company, and it leaves out of the act, as it was originally it. I thought there had been a misapprehension, howeYer. framed, the clauses which turn around and negative the pro The CHAIRMAN. The then Speaker, Mr. James G. Blaine, hibition. It proposed to prohibit the purchase of stock and said: · . · then added a proviso that a company so pu~chasing it may The Chair overrules the point of order. The gentleman might not apply to the commission to determine whether or not the pur be ~ble to offer t~e resolution in precisely the same words, but this is chase which had been made was legal or illegal. If this amend a diti e re n~ r t;solutlon, differen~Iy worded, and it is a question of privi lege, and is rn order at any time. * * • The difference of a single ment _is adopted, and this new section is added to the bill, it word would bring it within the rule of the House. will leave the question of the legality of any purchase of stock The Chair therefore, with knowledge of these precedents by a railway company subject to the decisions of the courts in overruled the point of order. ' exactly the same manner that the interpretation and enforce l\Ir. l\!ANN. Mr. Chairman, I move that all debate on the ment of the interstate-commerce act and the antitrust law of amendment close in ten minutes. 1890 is now interpreted and enforced by the courts. It simply The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the does not provide any special machinery or any special tribunal, gentleman from Illinois that all debate close in ten minutes. and the railroad companies are not especially invited to make The question was taken, and the motion was agreed to. application for the purpose of validating purchases of stock 1\Ir. POINDEXTER. Mr. Chairman, I intended to ask unani· in competing· lines. In other words, it is a copy of the first mous consent for two minutes more. paragraph of the twelfth section as it originally stood.· The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Washington [Mr. Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia, Will the gentleman permit a POINDEXTER] asks unanimous consent for two minutes in addi question? · tion to the time voted by the House. Mr. POINDEXTER. I yield for a question. 1\Ir. MANN. In addition to the ten minutes' time? Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. Is not this in so many words, except the words "directly and substantially," stricken out in The CHAIRMAN. The Ohair so understands. two places by a vote of the House, exactly the language of sec Mr. MANN. I have no objection. tion 12 as reported in this bill by the committee? The gentle The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? [After a pause.] man has taken the bill as reported and which has been voted The Chair hears none. out and offers that as an amendment. · Mr. POINDEXTER. 1\fr. Chairman, the contention was very Mr. A.DAMSON. And to that I made a point of order. freely made by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] that - Mr. POINDEXTER. It is not substantially the same for the antitrust act did not prohibit the purchase of stock by com two reasons: First, because it leaves out the words to which peting lines. I think it is a sound contention. I know many the gentleman has just called attention. l\lembers upon this side of the House voted against section 12 Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. But the House struck out those as amended, not bec!rnse they did not believe that the purchase on an amendment made by the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. of stock in competing lines should not be prohibited but be DAWSON]. cause they objected to the proviso attached to that pr~hibition 1\fr. POil\J)EXTER. I refuse to yield except for a question. which negatived its effect. ' But the important difference between this amendment and the So far as this being the same proposition as we have voted section as it was reported by the committee is that it leaves upon is concerned, it is radically different. The question raised • out the provision for applying to the Interstate Commerce Oom in this amendment has never been presented to the committee mii::sion or the court of commerce to validate a purchase, which and voted upon; and all those in favor of extending and lib in the first section, is prohibited. ' eralizing the law for the purpose of preventing combinations Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. Is not that exactly what the in restraint of trade and the further regulation of railroads ought amendment of the gentleman from Iowa [l\fr. HUBBARD] did? to have an opportunity to vote upon the practical question of Mr. POINDEXTER. If it has been allowed to stand in that whether a company shall be allowed to form a combination in form. But the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. ADAMSON] offered restraint of trade by the device of purchasing its stock. an amendment to strike out of section 12 that portion which '.rhe CHA.IR.MAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. was amended by the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] and Mr. SIMS. M.r. Chairman, the language of this. amendment the motion was declared out of. order. If that amendment' that is exactly what was reported in the bill as part of section 12 was proposed by him had been in order, then the same question except striking out the words "directly and substantially.'; that is presented by this amendment would have been pre This leaves it competitive. It further provides- sented to the pommittee of the Whole and acted upon. This nor shall. any such railroad or wat er carrier corporation have after the 1st day of .July, 1911, as an officer or a director any person who may question has never been submitted and has never been voted also be at the same time an officer or director of any such competing upon. It is a new question and raises a substantial and vital corporation. 5900 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, This portion of this -section has not been discussed except in amendments suggested by the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HUB general debate. I did state this morning that if the amendment BARD], the gentleman from Iowa [1\fr. Goon], and myself, and of the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. HmIBAIID] went in I then although that provision would have been of vast benefit to the would vote to retain section 12 of this bill ; and had it not section of country of the gentleman from Washington (l~fr. been for the amendment offered by the gentleman from Iowa POINDEXTER], he voted to strike it out of the bill. [l\Ir. Goon], which was carried, I would have so voted. I be Mr. POINDEXTER. What provision is that? lieve that other gentlemen on this side of the House would have Mr. MA:NN. Section 12 of the bill. The gentleman from voted to retain the section with the merger feature stricken Washington voted to strike it out. There is no part of the out. Now, we have got the substance of section 12 in the country to which it would have been of so much value as the amendment just offered with the merger feature out of it, and great northwest country on the Pacific coast. Now the gentle we also provide in this section that we ca.Ii prevent control of man seeks to put part of it back in the bill, I suppose so that a competing corporation by providing that no director shall be he may say that he was in favor of a certain provision. When in any way connected with it. there was a chance to put it in the bill and keep it in the bill, I want to ask gentlemen how can they go home and excuse he voted to take it out. His vote for it would have kept it in themselves for voting down this proposition, because they had the bill. I am in favor of defeating bis amendment, which to act upon it in connection with the merger features stricken would be of no value by itself, and lea. ve the section out of the out, and we voted to strike it out, because of the amendment bill altogether. offered by the gentleman from Iowa [Mr. Goon], so that it Mr. POII\TDEXTER. It would have been of no value what might be held by the court virtually to accomplish what the ever with the other proviso in it. amendment of the gentleman from Illinois did and to permit a Mr. MANN. It would have been of great value. merger where the Interstate Commerce Commission did not Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, I do hope that the eloquent find that it was substantially and directly competitive. We and unctuous appeal made here by my fitful and versatile have never known, and do not know now, as to what the courts brother [l\1r. SIMS] will not mislead anybody. We have been will hold as to "directly and substantially." But we do know trying for four months to get rid of this infernal section. We as to what they will hold as to "competitive," and this amend have gotten rid of it. If you leave a single joint of it in this ment makes it stronger and better, and it ought to mp.ke us bill the malefactors who were behind that section originally will eager in its support. build upon it in the Senate and in conference and will put it all Mr. POINDEXTER. Will the gentleman yield for a moment? back. When you do a good thing, why do you want to be mis Mr. SIMS. I yield to the gentleman. led by any enthusiastic gentleman into turning around and un Mr. POINDEXTER. I only want to call the attention of the doing it? Let us do something here for the people, and let us gentleman to the fact that this is not ill-considered language defeat the will of the conspirators and malefactors if we can. that is used by using the word "competitive," leaving out the Now, I want to offer an amendment to this-that it shall not words "directly and substantially." It is only necessary to have any effect on any railroad entirely within a State. refer to the bill as originally introduced by the gentleman from Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. Do not do that. We will de Michigan [Mr. TOWNSEND], which contained the word" competi feat it, anyway. tive" and did not have the words "directly and substantially." Mr. ADAMSON. I will withdraw it. Gentlemen say they Mr. SIMS. That was added by the House committee. will defeat it, anyhow. [Cries of "Vote! Vote1 "] _ Mr. MAl\TN. Unanimously. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman has two minutes remain- Mr. SIMS. Unanimously, as I understand. As I said before, ing. I asked the gentleman from Illinois in general debate if be Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me- knew what the court would hold as to those words, and he said Mr. ADAMSON. I thought my time had expired. he did not know and nobody else did. But we have the language Mr. HARDY. I can not help what the gentleman thought. wh.ich the gentleman offered, and that which is offered by the Mr. ADAMSON. Go ahead. gentleman from Texas [Mr. RUSSELL], which provided that di Mr. HARDY. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that every rectors in one competing company shall not be permitted to be man who really wants to :forbid the railroads from overcapi directors in another. Now, are you going to vote that out, talization and merging and consolidating-- simply because there was included with it the merger feature? Mr. ADAMSON. Every State will do that if we let them I do not think gentlemen ought to vote lightly. upon this mat alone. ter. We have just voted now on a provision that one railroad Mr. HARDY. The gentleman has not the floor. shall not be permitted to buy stock in another where they are Mr. ADAMSON. The gentleman from Texas is talking in competitive. We do not want to give any permission by which my time. they can do that. This amendment to section 12 that was re Mr. HARDY. My opinion is that all of us who favor re ported by the committee we considered in connection with the stricting stock and bond issues and merger of control of com other, and it is not necessary now, for the merger feature can petitive roads ought to vote for this naked proposition that is be stricken out and leave all the best of the section in. That now before the House :for the first time. -proposition is here now, and I want to know why we should Mr. POINDEXTER. Will the gentleman allow me to inter qot vote for it, with the merger provision out. rupt him? In order that we may know exactly what the amendment of Mr. HARDY. Certainly. the gentleman :from Washington is, I will now read it: l\1r. POINDEXTER. Is it not true, and conceded by every _ SEC. 12. That no railroad corporation which is a common carrier body, that if we leave it to the States they will be utterly with subject to the act to regulate commerce, approved February 4, 1887, out any power to regulate interstate commerce? as amended, shall hereafter acquire, directly or indirectly, any interest of whatsoever kind in the capital stock of any railroad, or water car Mr. ADAMSON. The man who thinks that ought to leave rier corporation, or purchase or lease any railroad, or water line his State, if he can not correct it, and bring it to the under which is competitive with that of such first-named corporation, nor standing and discharge of its constitutional duty. shall any water carrier corporation engaged iI,l interstate commerce hereafter acquire, diredly or indirectly, any interest of whatsoever Mr. HARDY. If this measure as proposed now is unconsti kind in the capital stock of any rallroad corporation, or purchase or tutional, the railroads will fight it and find it out. I do not lease any railroad. that is subject to the act to regulate commerce, and know whether it is unconstitutional or not, but I think it is which is competitive with such water line; nor shall any such railroad or water carrier corporation have after the 1st day of .July, 1911, as not. an officer or a director any person who may also be at the same time l\Ir. ADAMSON. Every lawyer ought to know that it is un an officer or director of any such competing corporation; and any cor constitutional and in behalf of the railroads. If the people do poration which acquires any interest in capital stock, or which pur e.bases or leases a railroad or water line contrary to this section, or not resist it in the courts, local authority and protection will which holds or retains any interest in capital stock or in a railroad or be overthrown. water line hereafter acquired in violation of this section, or which Mr. HARDY. The gentleman ought to know everything shall ha-ve and retain as an officer or director after the 1st day of July. 1911, any person who is also an officer or director of any such about law, but there are able lawyers who do not agree with competing corporation, shall be fined $5,000 for each day or part of him. day during which it .h?lds or retains ~uch interest unlawfully acquired, Mr. ADAMSON. I know that, if I know any law, and I have or retains such proh1b1ted officer or director. never seen any lawyer deliver a strictly legal opinion that this l\fr. l'tIANN. Mr. Chairman, I desire to use two minutes, and is constitutional. that the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. ADAMSON] may have the. Mr. HARDY. Will the gentleman allow me to finish my balance of the time. speech during the half minute that is left? I want to say that We presented a very reasonable proposition, as it seemed to some of us want to regulate the railroads; we want to do all me, in the original section 12, and some amendments made unani that we may under the Constitution to prevent watering stock mously, which the distinguished gentleman from Washington and to prevent competitive roads from passing under one con [Mr. POINDEXTER] leaves out of his bill as to the word "com trol by one road owning the stocks and bonds of its competitor. petitive." We amended that proposition in the House here on We want to pass a law that has teeth in it. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5901 1\Ir. ADAMSON. I do, and I do not want to pass a toothless, " Nothlng 1n this uet contained shall be taken to -prohibit the 1ssue of any bond or other evidence of indebtedness pursuant to the terms of any lame, halt, blind, and unconstitutional law. [Applause.1 Instrument heretofore executed, provided the same shall not be sold Mr. HARDY~ What I do not want is that between what the except in conformity with the provisions of this section. States may do constitutionally and what the Federal Govern " Nothing in this act contained shall in any way affect or impair the validity of any mortgage or pledge of any eapital stock, certi1icate of ment may do constitutionally the roads escape all effectual stock, bond, or other evidence of indebtedness now mortgaged or pledged control as to capitalization and combination. as security for or as part security for any loan heretofore made to any J\fr. ADAMSON. What I want is for the Federal Govern .such corporation, or prohibit th,e sale, upon foreclosure or otherwise, o:f any such mortga.ged or pledged :Stock, certificate of stock, bonds, or other ment to quit interfering to protect the railroads -from regulation evidences of indebtedness upon the terms and conditions provided in the by the State-the only authority which will or can constitu instrument, If any, whereunder such securities may have been pledged tionally and effectually regulate the issue 'Of stocks and bonds. or in th~ contract of loan; and nothing in this section contained shall The CHAIRMAN. The question now is on the amendment be construed in any way to prohibit or affect the issue of any capital stock or the delivery of any certificate of stock, or the issue of any offernd by the gentleman from Washington. bond or other evidence o:f Indebtedness in exchange for or to -provide for The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by M:r. the retirement o:f any capital stock. certificate of stock. bond, or other PoINDEXTEB) there were-ayes 25, noes 90. evidence of indebtedness now outstanding or provided to be issued, or the pledge of the exchanged or retired stock o.r securities on such terms So the amendment was rej ect.ed. and conditions as may be provided in the instruments whereunder any The Clerk, proceeding with the reading of the bill, read sec of the stocks, bonds, or other evidences of indebtedness referred to in tion 13, as follows: this paragraph are respectiv-ely issued or authorized to be issued." SEC. 13. That .a new section be added to said act to regulate com Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, I want to offer two amend merce, to be numbered as section 25, ·as follows : ments. One is to strike out the section entirely, and then I " SEC. 25. That no railroad corporation whi.ch is a comm.on carrier subject to the provisions of this act as amended shall hereafter issue want to mm-e to amend by adding at the end of the section n for any purpose connected with or relating to any part of its business provision that this section shall not apply to any railroad or governed by .t:he provisions of 1:his act as .am-ended any 'Stock, bonds, within notes, or other evidences of indebtedness to an amount exceeding that railroads the entire line of which is wholly a Stn.te. which may from time to time be reasonably necessary for .the purpose The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Georgia offers an f-Or which such issue of stock, bonds, notes, O'l" other evidences of in· amendment, which the Clerk will report. debtedness may be authorized. " The amount of said se.cudties to be thus issued, excepting noteB The Clerk read as follows: maturing not more than two years fr.om 1.b.e date of their issue, shall Amend by adding at the end of section 13 the following: be determined lby the Interstate Commerce Commission, and any sale of " The provisions of this section shall not apply to anl railroad or said securities shall be at a price not Jess than their reascmable value, railroads the entire length of which is wholly within one ;::,tate." which, excepting as to notes maturing not more than two years from the date of their issue, shall be ascertained and ftxed by the commis Mr. ADilISON. Mr. Chairman, I presume action on the sion. Said commission shall renaer a decision upon an application for motion to strike -0ut will hav-e to be deferred until after all such issue 'Within thirty days after the fin.al hearing thereon. Such de amendments to perfect th-e section have been voted upon. cision shall .be 1n writing, shall assign the reasons therefor, sha.11, if authorizing such issue, specify the respective amounts of stoek, bonds, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is quite correct. or note1:1 or other eYidences of indebtedness as aforesaid which are .au Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, I ask llllanimous consent to thorized to be issued for the respective purposes to which the proceeds proceed for ten minutes. ther.eof are to be appli~d. A certiftca.te of the decision of said commis sion shall, before the stock, bonds, or notes or other evidences -0f in l\ir. MANN. 1 wonder if we can not agree on a time for de- debtedness 11s aforesaid -are issued, be delivered to the corporation. bate on this section. , Suen corporation shall· not apply the proceeds of such 'Stock, bonds, or Mr. ADAMSON. I suggest that we wait a few minutes. llotes or other eYidences of indebtedness :as .aforesaid to .any ,purpose not SJ>ecifl.ei:l in such certi1l..cate, and no property, services, nr other thing Mr. MANN. How many ,amendments are there to be offered? than money shall be taken in J)ayment to the corporation of the re Mr. SABA.TH. I have one. quired price of such stock, -certificate o! stock, bond, 'OT other evidence Mr. MANN. Suppose we agree to elose debate in half an of indebtedness., except :at th-e fall" value of such prop:erty, services, or other thing than money, which shall b,e ,ascertained by the Interstate hour. Commerce Commission an.d stated in a certificate issued .by it to such Mr. ADAMSON. I prefer to wait a few minutes and let us corporation, or to any -peTson or .pel'sous intending to fo:rm such cor see what we are doing. . poration, and recorded with the commission before the issue of said stock, certificate of stock. or evidence of indebtedness~ Prov.ided, Tbat The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Georgia asks unani nothing herein contained shall b~ construed to prevent a. corp.oratio.n m-0us consent to proceed fo.r ten minutes. Is there objection? subject to 'this .act from i uing :its ~tock, ·bonds, or other obligations to There was no objection. refund bonds or other obligations heretofore o.r hereafter issued and outstanding to an a.mount reasonably necessary for that purpose de 11.fr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, I regret exceedingly that termined as bereinbefore ']Jrovided. th~e sections are insisted <>n here in connection with the rail ~· No railroad corporation 1mbject to the provisions of this act a:s road-rate bill. If they were abandon.ed and the commerce eourt amended shall :hereafter, for any purpose connected ·with or relating to any part o.f lts business gover.ned by this act, issue ruiy capital stock stricken out, we would have a rate bill possessing some merit convertible into other capital stuck oi such railroad corpuration unless that we could afford to vote for if we were sure we ·could trust by the terms of the certificate representing the stock so convertible the 1t to the other House to deal with it without restoring ob amount, par value, of capital .stock that the holder of such certificate 1s entitled to receive in exchange therefor shall be equal to or less than n1>xious lJl'Ovisions. This and the next two sections are the the par value of the shares of stock represented by such certificate uf most dangerous and objectionable features of the entire bill. convertible stock ; but nothing "Contained in this act shall be deemed to The only consolation, 1n view of their inevitable passage, is prohibit the issue by any such corporation of its capital stock in ex change for and in accordance with the terms of such convertible stock that they will be unconstitutional and void~ issued in accordance with the pruvisions of this pa-ragraph. Mr. Chairman, this sectio~ like the one we haT"e just stricken "Nothing in this section contained shall be construed to prohibit out from the bill, has no place in a rate bilL This Union was the mortgage or pledge hy any railroad ·Corporation subject to the provi sions of this act as amended of any bond -or other evidence of Indebted wisely formed by the States for strictly general governmental ness issued by such railroad corporation as security for or as part purposes, the right to generate and inc.o:rporate persons, natural security for any note, bond, or other evidence of indebtedn-ess issued by and artificial, and to regulate the method of producing them and or loan made to such railroad corporation which shall not be issued or made in violation of the provisions of this act: Provided, 'That the governing and regulating them after being put into business terms of said loan and of such notes, bonds, or other evidences of in being wisely -reserved to the States. The Federal Government debtedness, if any, shall provide that none of said pledged bonds or has no business to assume to regulate the social and domestic other evidences of indebtedness shall, upon .nonpayment of the .notes, bonds, or other evidences of indebtedness which they are pledged to affairs within the States, because they are powers reserved to secure, or upon nonperformance of any of the conditions thereof be the States. sold or become the property of the h-Olders of the notes, bonds' or The Federal Government has no business to charter corpora other evidences of indebtedness so secured, either 'directly OT thr0ugh a trustee for their benefit, except at or through public sale, notice tions; it was never intended to have that power. You can take whereof shall be published at least once a week for not less than three it as a general proposition that, with the single exception -of successive weeks prior thereto in at least one daily newspaper of gen admitting aliens, when the Federal Government undertakes to eral circulation published in ~he place where such sale shall take place: Ana provided further, That if such notes, bonds, or other evidences of model or regulate persons, either natural or artificial, in the indebtedness, if any, shall provide that the owners thereof hall have States, they are not only illegitimate as regards the statutes, the Tight to convert the same into the bonds or other evidences of in but unconstitutional bastards. [Laughter .and applause.] debtedness so mortgaged or pledged, the Interstate Commerce Commis sion, previously to the making of such loan, shall have ascertained and For the J>urpose of preserving the morals and honesty which stated, :in a certificate issued by the commission to such corporation or they say is the purpose of this and the foUowing section, the to any person or persons intending to organize such corporation and States are left with the police power, the police regulations, to recorded with the commission Qr otherwise, as authorized by this act the reasonable market or selling value of such bonds or other evidences look after all these things. If the State charters a corpora of indebtedness so mortgaged or pledged and the rate which said rea tion, the State looks .after the organization and the regulation sonable market or selling value bears to the -reasonable market or sell and management of the corporation. The Federal Government ing value of such secured notes, bonds, or other evidences of indebted ness, and that such secured notes, bonds, or other evidences of in has no power under any grant, and it is not insisted that they debtedness shall not provide that the owners thereof shall have the have it under anything but the commerce clause of the Con right, upon such conversion, to receive in exchange therefor bonds or stitution, to meddle with the internal affairs of these corpora other evidences of indebtedness so mortgaged or pledged to an amount greater than would be receivable at the rate so found and stated in tions at all. They could not interfere with their instrumentali web certificate of th$ -commisslo11 ties of transportation, their work inside of a State, and they , 5902 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, could not interfere with the issue of stocks and bonds inside If t~ere are men here living in States created by Congress who, of a State. These provisions are utterly unconstitutionai as to lookmg to Congress instead of the Constitution as their creators, every corporation that issues its stocks and bonds inside of a and do not know the value of being constitutional citizens of State. original States that fought and bled for constitutional gornrn Gentlemen taik with a great show of morality and a great ment and know what constitutional liberty means, they ought pretense of honesty. Why, there was never a mean thing at to go home and introduce the reading of the Constitution into tempted by this or any other government that was not initiated their public schools, and raise the school age so that some older with a great blowing of trumpets and waving of flags about people can go to school until they learn something about the goodness and morality. The old robber made the excuse to Constitution, and let them learn how to enforce honesty, and Alexander, saying that he only robbed the rich and gave to the protect honesty, and live honestly, instead of coming ;to Congress poor. But all modern robbers do not have that excuse; they to attend to all of their concerns. [Applause.] reverse the process and seek to use the powers of the Govern Mr. ~1ANN. l\Ir. Chairman, I move that all debate on the ment to filch from the poor and give it to the rich. amendment close in five minutes. But, l\Ir. Chairman, when these corporations have their stocks The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Illinois mo,es that and bonds pm·chased by people to go into combinations, and the all debate on the pending amendment close in :five minutes. physical operations of those combinations interfere with inter The question was taken, and the motion was agreed to. state commerce, then the antitrust law comes into play and not un Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, section 13 of the bill is the sec til then, and the power of Congress delegated to the officials of the tion in reference to the issuance of stocks and bonds. It does Government can interfere and prevent the restraint of trade and not pretend to confer any authority. It is simply restrictive commerce by those combinations-not by the stocks and bonds to the extent that stocks and bonds shall not be issued by rail being "issued, no more than by the engine being :fired in a certain ro:ids. subject to the act to regulate commerce except upon ap way or a track being laid in a certain way. plication to the commission. Now, the gentleman from Georgia It is not the instrumentality, it is not the evidence given by offers an amendment to say that this provision of the bill the certificate of stock or the paper bond, but it is the physical should apply to no lines wholly within the limits of a State. effect and result of the combination which physically operates '!hat would be to take it out of the law altogether, because what to interfere with trade which is palpable and manifest. is ne~es.sary to be done in such cases? If a line is wholly within What does this amendment meari? I offered it to the preced the hm1ts of a State now and has no physical connection with ing section just in order to show to any doubting Thomas by ~nr other road and is doing no· interstate-commerce business, the vote against it what it meant-a provision that the provi it is not covered by the provisions of the act but under the gen sion of this section should not apply to any line of road oper tleman's amendment I presume that he m~ans that if line A a ting entirely within a State. The adverse vote betrays the in Illino~s co~ecu: with line B in Indiana, you may organize a purpose to try to make it apply, notwithstanding professions corporation m Illmois controlling the line in Illinois which of disclaimer and confessions of unconstitutionality. But, oh, will not be subject to the provisions of the act. ' they say, that is not necessary, it would not be constitutional, And a corporation in Indiana owning the line in Indiana is and therefore voted against that. Strange logic. Admitting not ~object to the provisions of the act, and under the gentle unconstitutionality, they should have voted with me. If it is man s amendment all that is necessary to do is for a railroad not constitutional, give to your agents and officers the direction company to be organized in each State through which the line of the Federal Government that they must not try to do un travels. That is all there is -to the amendment. The act to constitutional things, especially in view of what is suspected regulate commerce does not affect a road now unless it is en as to the purpose of these sections. gaged in interstate-commerce business; but the gentleman's They are full of resenations and exceptions and doubtful amendment, although the road is directly part of another road propositions and complicated propositions, and they have not although the two roads join each other, the provision would a single provision in them saying that stock and bonds shall apply to neither one of the roads. In the State which I have be void for noncompliance, but they provide none shall be is the honor in part to represent, a railroad company can not in sued except under the surveillance and authority of the federal the first instance be organized t build a road in Indiana nor Interstate Commerce Commission. If that is valid and should can an Indiana corporation build in Illinois. There have to be be enforced, would it not override and destroy all local au two separate corporations; but under the gentleman's amend thority and state railroad commissions and· all state regula ment this provision in reference to stocks and bonds would not tions and restrictions? They wind up with the general saving apply at all. Now, if the gentleman desires to say that the clause, which, it seems to me, if I understand the English lan railroad company may issue stocks and bonds ad libitum in the guage, means that all the rascality in all the past shall be cured, future as they have in the past, we might as well vote to strike and all watered stock and all fraudulent bonds may be made out section 13 or vote to insert the amendment proposed by the good. It has a provision that no bona. fide holder for value gentleman from Georgia, for each would accomplish the same shall be affected by these sections. Let us analyze that a result. minute. Every railroad charter in every Stat~ is a public The CHAIRMAN. The question occurs upon the amendment law. In order to comply with that public law the corporation offered by the gentleman from Georgia. has to be organized and conducted in a specified manner, the The question was taken, and the Chair announced the noes records have to be kept public, the doctrine of caveat emptor seemed to have it. certainly applies, and everything being of public record and On a division (demanded by .Mr. ADAMSON) there were-ayes based on public law, will you tell me how the doctrine of bona 47, noes 82. fide purchaser for value can obtain at all? So the amendment was rejected. Is it not every man's business when he buys a bond of a Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offe~ quasi public corporation operating under a public law to see this amendment. what the record shows-to see whether it is fraudulent or not, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Georgia offers an or whether it is watered stock or lawfully and regularly issued? amendment, which the Clerk will report. They have a criminal offense provided against the corporate The Clerk read as follows : officials who issue the stock and bonds, and there is not a To amend section 13, page 84, by adding, in line 15, after the word lawyer ill favor of that bill who will stand up as a lawyer and " issue," the following: "Provided, That nothing herein shall prevent the bonds and shares ot say that it is constitutional to go into a. State when the officers stock in any such railroad c_ompany from being included in the valua of a state corporation, under a state law, have issued certificates tion of the personal property ot the owner or holder thereof in as of stock or signed bonds and say that they can be constitu sessing taxes imposed by authority of the State in which the owner ; holder of such shares of stock or bonds resides, but the legislature 0ot tionally convicted for doing that in that State under the state each State may determine and direct the manner and place of taxing law, and gentlemen on my committee admitted it the other day. all the shares ot stock and bonds of such railroad companies subject The same gentleman who reported this section struck out from only to the restriction that the taxation shall not be at a greater rate than is assessed upon other moneyed capital in the hands of individual a bill where they really needed to put somebody in the peni citizens or residents ot the State." tentiary as punishment for fellows who in a State collude and issue fraudulent bills of lading in interstate transportation, MESSAGE FBOJ.I THE SENATE. because they said that was not constitutional. I would like to The committee informally rose; and Mr. MALnY having taken know how that is any less constitutional than this. I can not the chair as Speaker pro tempore, a message from the S'enate understand it to save my life. by Mr. Crockett, one of its clerks, announced that the Senat~ Gentlemen need not walk around me with long countenances had passed without amendment bills or the following titles: and talk about honesty and morality. The trouble with that H. R.18813. An act to amend section 63 of the act of August in the great State in which I Jive is that we look after the regu 28, 1894 (28 Stat., p. 567) ; and lation of all these matters until the federal authority reaches H. R. 21419. An act making appropriations for the service ot forth its arm and interferes with our honesty and compelling the Post-Office Department for the :fiscal year ending June 30. other people to be honest. [Applause on the Democratic side.] 1911, and for other purposes. 1910. CONGRESSIO_N AL RECORD-HOUSE. The message also announced that the Senate had· insisted The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? upon its amendri:lent to the bill (H. R. 20578) making appro There was no objection. priations for the payment of invalid and other pensions of the Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. The books are full of the de United States for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1911, and for cisions made by the courts; that because, though the laws of a other purposes, disagreed to by the House of Representatives, State may incidentally affect interstate commerce, it does not had agreed to the conference asked by the House on the dis follow for that reason that it is an interference with interstate agreeing votes of the two Houses thereon, and had appointed commerce. I call to the serious attention of those who pass Mr. BURNHAM, Mr. SMOOT, and :Mr. TAYLOR as the conferees on upon this question to reflect that if Congress can enact this the part of the Senate. legislation and say that no railroad corporation that engages The message also announced that the Senate had agreed to the in ~nterstate commerce shall issue any stocks or bonds, except amendment of the House of Representatives to the bill (S. 539) as 1t shall be permitted by Congress to do it, you have made to authorize the sale of certain lands belonging to the Indians the most serious, advanced step in the direction of favoring on the Siletz Indian Reservation, in the State of Oregon. the law now being agitated which declares that Congress may RAILROAD RATE BILL. regulate the transmission through the channels of interstate The committee resumed its session. commerce of any kind of goods made within the States. You l'i!r. BARTLETT of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, I am opposed to ha-ve then determined that Congress, not the States in this this section. I am opposed to the Congress of the United States country, shall regulate all kinds of business. We have had it undertaking to regulate the local police affairs of a State which seriously contended in Congress heretofore, and by many peo charters and gives rights to a corporation, although that cor ple, that Congress has the right to regulate the hours of labor poration may engage in interstate commerce. in the States, and to say that in any State that permits labor The law, as has been construed by the Supreme Court of the beyond certain hours, the labor of people under certain age, the United S::tates, is that where Congress legitimately controls the property manufactured by that kind of labor shall not engage instruments of commerce and regulates them, the State would in interstate commerce. There is nothing different in the two not have authority to tax such instruments of commerce. For propositions. If Congress has the right to say that a corpora instance, to cite a case, let us go back to the Bank case, known tion chartered by Georgia, regulated by the laws of that State as the case of McCullough 1'. The State of Maryland, where the which already superintends and supervises the issuance of it~ Supreme Court decided that a United States bank, its property stocks and bonds through its railroad commission, shall comply or its stocks, chartered by Congress, was not subject to state with the requirements of this section, then there is no reason taxation, because it was a function of government that had been why Congress can not say that the cotton picked and manu conferred upon the bank. We refer to the national-bank act, factured in the State of Georgia and other Southern States and we find in that a provision in section 5219 of the Revised shall not pass through the channels of commerce if made in Statutes, One hundred and sixty-two, second section, which whole or in part by labor which Congress shall say has been specifically authorizes the States to tax the stock and the performed either at hours that Congress does not agree to or property of the national banks in the localities where they are by children under a certain age fixed by Congress. · located. And but for that provision the States and municipali The fundamental objection I have to this not that I object ties and the counties would not be authorized to tax the stock to the regulation of stocks and bonds, not that I do not believe or the property of the banks. I will insert this section. It is that these corporations ought not to be permitted to water their as follows: stock and to issue their bonds more than is necessary. But STATE TAXATION. the power to do that is lodged, not in Congress, but is lodged 162. SEC. 5219. Nothing herein shall prevent all the shares in any in the legislatures of the various States. My State does it; as ociation from being included in the valuation of the personal prop erty of the owner or bolder of such shares, in assessing taxes Imposed Texas does it; Massachusetts does it, and every other State by authority of the State within whlcjl the association ls located· but can do it. I do not mean to confine it to Massachusetts to the legislature of each State may determine and direct the manner' and Georgia, or to Texas. I happen to know that those · Stat~ do place of taxing all the shares of national banking associations located within the State. subject only to the two restrictions, that the taxation it. Therefore when Congress undertakes to do this it under shall not be at a greater rate than ls assessed upon other moneyed capital takes to do something that is far beyond the delegat~d powers, in the hands of individual citizens of such State, and that the shares of any national banking association owned by nonresidents of any and it is beyond the construction that you shall give to those State shall be taxed in the city or town where the bank is located, and delegated powers by saying that Congress shall do everything not elsewhere. Nothing herein shall be construed to exempt the real necessary and proper to carry out those powers. Congress un property of associatio:qs from either state, county, or municipal taxes, de~takes to do this under its power to regulate commerce. ~~x!~~ same extent, according to its value, as other real property is Will any man undertake to say that the issuance of the stock We know, further, that the Supreme Court has decided that of a railroad company, the issuance of a bond by a railroad company is commerce? If he says so, he can not point to a you can not tax the drummer, in the case known as the Drum single respectable authority; nay, I say, he can not point to a mer case, from the city of Memphis, who undertakes to sell single authority elementary,. or the decision of a court, that goods in the city of Memphis, whi-ch goods were to be shipped shows that the issuance of stocks and bonds is commerce. from another State into that State. It is true they have de The Supreme Court of the United States have decided that cided that they can tax the property of a railroad engaged in the issuance of a foreign bill of exchange was not foreign com interstate comm~rce, because of its location there; but this is a new step, a new assumption of power, this effort to control as merce. They decided that as early as in Eighth Howard in the instruments of commerce the stocks and bonds of railroads. It case of Nathan v. Louisiana. ' was never dreamed before that Congress had this power. It The Supreme Court said, in reference to insurance cases was beyond the conception of the framers of the Constitution beginning with the case in Eighth Wallace of Paul against Vir~ or anyone who up to this time has ever offered or endeavored ginia, who was himself engaged in nothing but maritime in to embrace within the power of Congress the right to regulate, surance, that that business was not commerce. He was sued to not interstate commerce, not the transmission of property over pay taxes by the State of Virginia for carrying on the business the interstate railroads from one State to another, not interstate of an insurance broker. He set out in reply that it was not in traffic, but the issuance of stocks and bonds in a State under the power of Virginia to tax him as he was engaged in carry laws authorized by a State, and which, perchance, may never ing on the business of foreign bills of exchange. Therefore, as get beyond the limits of the State. In my judgment, it will not Congress alone had the power to regulate foreign commerce it do to say that beca use a railroad chartered by a State and was an invasion of the rights of Congress to regulate forelgn authorized by a State to issue a certain number and amount of commerce by Virginia undertaking to put a burden upon one stocks and bond.111, becaU.Ee it does that which it has a right to of the instruments of commerce; and the Supreme Court de do, engage in interstate commerce, and from doing which Con cided that that was not true; that incidentally affecting com gress can not inJ:libit it, it will not do to say that is interstate merce, passing through the mails, and express companies to traffic, and because it is engaged in interstate traffic you can foreign countries, or from State to State, was not such com therefore say what it shall be in its local affairs. No lawyer merce as Congress could regulate, and they also have held in· upon this floor will arise and seriously say, certainly not if he Hooper against California, which I will read: has investigated the question, that the issuance of stocks and These contracts are not commerce- bonds under the charter granted by a State is anything more ! read now the decision fn One hundred and sixty-first United than doing that under the police power of a State. States, known as the Pearsall case, and I quote the language, The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman's time has expired. which is as follows: . Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have ten minutes more. Congress may place restrictions and limitations upon the right of corporations created and organized under Its authority to acquire use l'ilr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent, then and dispose of property. It may also impose such · restrictions' and, that debate upon the amendment .cease in fifteen minutes and J.in?.Itations upon tbe citizen in respect of the exercise of a public· that the ge n tleman f rom G eorg i a h ave t en minu t es of the-time. . l pnvllegecertainly orhas franchise not the powerconferred or authorityby the United under States.the commerce But Congress clause, ·CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. :MA_y 6, o~ any other provision of the Constitution, to limit and restrict the abhorrent to me, and should be abhorrent to every man in a right of corporations created by the States, or the citizens of the States, in the acquisition, control, and disposition of pr.operty. Neither republic, to insist that the Government shall own and control can Congress regulate or prescribe the price or prices at which such all the interstate railroads of the country. Against this inva property, or products thereof, shall be sold by the owner or owners, sion of the rights and the police powers of the States, against whether corporations or individuals. It is equally clear that Congress has no jurisdiction over, and can not make criminal, the aims, purposes, this tendency to concentrate here in Washington all control and and intentions of persons in the acquisition and control of property supervision of all the affairs of the State, to control and regu which the States of their residence or creation sanction and permit. late the corporations chartered by the State in its internal The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Georgia affairs-against this long advance in the direction of govern has expired. ment ownership instead of government control of interstate Mr. MANN. How much more time does the gentleman want? commerce I enter my protest, and I insist that this section .Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. I should like to ha\e fi-ve should be stricken out of the bill. minutes. Mr. l\IANN. Mr. Chairman, section 13, now under considera Mr. l\IA:r-.:1N. I ask unanimous consent that the time be ex tion, does not confer power from the General Government upon tended five minutes and that the gentleman from Georgia have railroads to issue stock. Where that power is exercised at all the time. it must be conferred by the States which create the railroad The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman asks unanimous consent corporations. ' that the gentleman from Georgia may proceed for five minutes Section 13 resh·icts only the issue of stocks and bonds in ac in addition to the time limited by the committee. Is there cordance with our power to restrict corporations engaged in objection? interstate and foreign commerce. There was no objection. Now, the amendment of the gentleman from Georgia proposes Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. I do not want to add anything to do the very thing that he is opposed to; that is on the assump of my own, but I want to say something ex cathedra. That tion, I take it, that the gentleman believes we are endeavoring opinion continues: to confer power under this section to issue stocks and bonds. That is not the case. We do not confer the power; we only It is not material that such property, or the products thereof, may become the subject of trade or commerce among the several States or resh·ict the power. But the amendment of the gentleman from with foreign nations. Commerce among the States, within the exclusive Georgia provides, as an act on our part, that the legislature of regulating power of Congress, "consists of intercourse and traffic be each State may determine and direct the manner and place of tween their citizens, and includes the transportation of persons and property, as well as the purchase, sale, and exchange of commodities." taxing all the shares of stock and bonds of such railroad com (County of Mobile v. Kimball, 102 U. S., 691, 702; Gloucester Ferry panies, subject only to the restriction that the taxation shall not Co. v. Pennsylvania, 114 U. S., 203.) In the application of this com be at a greater rate than is assessed upon other moneyed capital prehensive definition, it is settled by the decision of the Supreme Court that such commerce includes, not only the actual transportation of com in the hands of individual citizens or residents of the State. modities and persons between the States, but also the instrumentalities That is an assumption that we have power to say to the States and processes of such transportation. • * * how they shall tax the stocks and bonds issued by a corporation That neither the production or manufacture of articles or commodi ties which constitute subjects of commerce. and which are intended created by the State. We have no such power; and to put this for trade and traffic with citizens of other States, nor the preparation into the bill would render this section absolutely unconstitu for their transportation from the State where produced or manufac tional. tured, prior to the commencement of the actual transfer or trans mission thereof to another State, constitutes that interstate commerce Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. It is the same provision that is which comes within the regulating power of Congress; and, further, in the national-bank act. I copied it from that. that after the termination of the transportation of commodities or Mr. MANN. That is another proposition. Our authority to articles of traffic from one State to another, and the mingling or merging thereof in the general mass of property in the State of destina create national banks, under other provisions of the Constitu tion, the sale, distribution, and consumption thereof in the latter State tion, is quite a different proposition from this. forms no part of interstate commerce. The gentleman from Georgia thinks it would not make any And the Supreme Court in the case of Hatch v. Reardon difference, because he thinks it is already unconstitutional. (204 U. S.) had up for consideration this identical question of Now, the section is not unconstitutional as written, but if we the transfer of railroad stocks, and they declared that the is undertake to direct the States how they shall tax the stocks and suance and transfer of railroad stocks was not interstate com bonds it would be unconstitutional, and for that reason I hope merce, and where the State of New York put a tax upon each that the amendment will not be agreed to. share of stock sold by a broker, and the broker set up that it The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered was stock sold to a citizen of another State, and therefore an by the gentleman from Georgia. interference with interstate commerce, they held that the sale The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by and issuance of stock was not interstate commerce, but was gov l\Ir. BARTLETT of Georgia) there were 49 ayes and 73 noes. erned entirely by the laws of that State where it was issued So the amendment was rejected. and sold. The court say : Mr. MACON. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amend· The protection of the commerce clause of the Federal Constitution is ment. not available to defeat a state stamp-tax law on transactions wholly The Clerk read as follows : within a State because they affect property without that State, or be Amend section 13 by striking out all of proposed section 25 after cause one or both of the parties previously came from other States. f~~ r~~~e~; purpose," in line 14, page 79, and insert the following in The tax of 2 cents a share imposed on transfers of stock' made within that State by the tax law of New York of 1905 does not violate the " Stock, bonds, notes, or other evidences of indebtedness to an equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment, • • * nor is amount exceeding the physical value of the property that said stock it as to such transfers of stock an interference with interstate com bonds, notes, or other evidences of indebtedness are issued to represent'. merce. The amount of said stock, bonds, notes, or othe1· evidences of indebt edness to be issued and the physical value of the property that they On page 160 the court say : f~fei~:::t~d C~o~efi;c~seC~m~sl~io~~ .. determined and ascertained by the · The other ground of attack is that the act is an interference with commerce among the several States. * * * There is not a shadow :Mr. l\IACON. Mr. Chairman, the amendment I offer explains of ground for calling the transaction described such commerce. The communications between the parties were not between different States itself, and I do not know that anything that I could say would • • • and the bargain did not contemplate or induce the transport make it more explicit. But I will state that it simply provides of property from one State to another, as in the Drummer case&. in a few words that we shall have no more watered stocks or * • • Tbe bargain was not affected in any way, legally or prac tically, by the fact that the parties happened to have come from an bonds if this amendment is adopted. The country is complain other State before they made it. It does not appear that the petitioner ing against watered stocks and bonds that the railroads have came into New York to sell his stock,, as it was put on his behalf. It been issuing, time out of mind. The practice would not be appears only that he sold after commg into the State. But we are far from implying that it would have !Dade any difference if he had tolerated in any other kind of business that I know of. The come to New York with the supposed mtent before any bargain was banks that are controlled by the Federal Government are not made. allowed to issue stock beyond the physical value of their prop Clearer words, more apt and fit for the proposition before erty, and I can not see why a railroad should be allowed to the House, could not haye been written. And if Congress un issue stocks and bonds and put them on the market beyond the dertakes to say that it will go into a State and regulate the physical value of the property they are issued to represent. police affairs of the State, even if the State forbids it, to say Mr. COOPER of Wisconsin. Will the gentleman yield? under what terms stocks shall be issued and bonds issued and Mr. MACON. I will yield to the gentleman from Wisconsin. the local affairs of the corporation shall be conducted, this is Mr. COOPER of Wisconsin. It occurs to me that possibly, but a step in the direction of assumption of all power in the under the language of the gentleman's amendment, it would be Federal Government, a step in the direction of the erection here applicable to a case like this: Take the Reading Railroad, for in Washington of a bureaucracy that shall hereafter annihilate instance, . that owns coal mines in Pennsylvania. This would and destroy all the powers of the State to regulate and control provide that the coal company might issue stock as it pleased; its own affairs, and which tends, as it must tend, to force the but it is controlled by the railroad company, and the railroad people and the States, if this bill is upheld, to do that which is company could not issue the bonds. Does the gentleman think • 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5905 that he should, by a law of Congress, attempt to regulate the country if they issue watered stocks and bonds. The Interstate amount of bonds that a coal company belonging to a railroad Commerce Commission is the proper tribunal to pass upon the can issue ? question as to whether the stocks and bonds are watered or l\fr. l\fACON. There is no mention of a coal company in the not, as well as to what the value of the property is. Why, sirs, bill, and hence I do not see any reason why one should be if we allow the railroad officials to continue to say what the mentioned in the amendment. I know nothing about what a coal railroads' properties are worth and as to whether their stocks company Iillght or might not do. But I know that this section as and bonds are watered or not, there will never be a correction it is proposed by the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Com of this matter, and watered stocks and bonds "will flow on merce does permit stocks and bonds and notes and other evi forever." But if the Interstate Commerce Commission is given dences of indebtedness to be issued by raih'oads, not by coal authority to pass upon the question it will be quite different, companies. because it will give an honest valuation of the property, and Mr. COOPER of Wisconsin. Permit me to call the gentle- it will see that no greater amount of stocks and bonds are man's attention to the language: · issued than the property will fairly and honestly represent. That no railroad corporation which is a common carrier subject to 1\lr. Chairman, it strikes me that the proposition is right. I t he provisions of this act as amended shall hereafter issue for any know that the party that I have the honor to represent in part purpose con~ected with or relating to any part of its business governed by the provisions of this act as amended, and its stocks, bonds, notes- has been clamoring against watered stocks and bonds ever since And so forth. I have been old enough to be a member of it, and I believe every Now, then, the railroad company is sometimes unfortunately honest member of every party in the United States is opposed engaged in other business. We have been trying to do away to them, and I hope the amendment will be adopted, so an end with that under the anticommodity clause. can, and will, be put to them. [Applause.] .Mr. MACON. My amendment only goes to the extent of Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from Geor preventing railroads from issuing watered stock and bonds, or gia [Mr. BARTLETT] struck the heart of the proposition in his other evidences of indebtedness, unless based upon the physical question to the gentleman from Arkansas. The only way in value of the property of the railroad that they are issued to which the Federal Government can constitutionally consider represent, and that must be determined by the Interstate-Com- the amount of stocks and bonds of any corporation chartered in . merce Commission. They can not issue the stocks, bonds, and a State is the bearing that it would have on rates. You can so forth, until the commission has ascertained what the physical pass laws mountain high, put any inquisitorial provisions in value of the property is, and. then the amount of stock and them which you choose, yet the only way you can enforce them bonds must not exceed the physical value of the property. or derive any practical benefits from them is by considering what the amount is, what the character is, as a circumstance We have adopted an amendment since this bill has been under to consider and determine what the proper rate shall be. consideration that provide~ for a physical examination and valuation of the railroad properties of the country. Now, 1\Ir. Chairman, recognizing that, following the physical Therefore, if we are to have raih'oad property value111 ascer valuation clause, which was designed to give information to the tained by the Interstate Commerce Commission, why can we Interstate Commerce Commission to help determine what a not provide that it shall determine the amount of stocks, bonds, proper rate ought to be, I offered the proposition that, if neces and so forth, that the railroads shall issue to receive an un sary, they should also have information as to the amount of reasonable return upon from the people by way of unjust pas stocks and bonds, and what they were issued for in cash or the senger rates and freight tariffs? Why, sir, a high interest is value of the property received for them, and what was done with being paid upon all of the watered stocks and bonds that have the money or property received. I am willing for the Federal been put upon the market by the railroads from the beginning Government to give to the Interstate Commerce Commission all by the American people by way of excess freight and passenger the light and all the instrumentalities for light that it is pos rates. Yes, sir; they are called upon to pay a stiff dividend sible to give them, in order that they may consider all circum upon every one of them. stances in making proper rates. But it is neither necessary nor The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman from Arkansas constitutional to pile upon the Interstate Commerce Commission has expired. the work of going into all the business details and internal Mr. MACON. I ask for five minutes more. corporate transactions of these state corporations in order to The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Arkansas asks find out what rates ought to be. unanimous consent that he may proceed for five minutes. Is The information is all they want, and they can get the in there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none. formation without supervising the issue of the stocks and bonds l\fr. 1\IACON. Mr. Chairman, we know that each bond and just as they can learn the physical valuation without managing each share of stock issued by the railroads must have a re all the physical business of the carriers. These corporations turn upon it, and we know that the traveling public and the ought to be organized honestly, dollar for dollar in cash for ultimate consumer must pay a high raih·oad tariff in order that every dollar's worth of stock subscription on its face, and hav the watered bonds and stocks shall have a return upon them. ing been thus honestly organized, they ought to have the right Why, sirs, just think of a bank capitalized at $100,000 issuing to get all the credit they need and their assets and standing stock to the amount of $1,000,000, and expecting to charge ex will justify, and the States will look after the matter of their change and interest rates sufficiently high to warrant a good honesty and regularity if we will allow it. And there is not dividend upon the entire issue. How long do you think such an any use of framing up a tyrannical and imperialistic system institution would be able to keep its doors open in any intelligent here by which the machinations of the Federal Government will commtmity? Every customer of such a bank would necessarily overawe the state railroad commissions and attempt to break bave to be robbed if they were kept open long. So it is with down and disregard state authority in order to have a federal the railroads of the country. If we are called upon to pay a regulation of these affairs which will give to these carriers the dividend upon watered stocks and bonds, we know that our thing which they vainly hoped to get from a federal incorpora freight and passenger rates must be higher than they ought to tion law, and exempt them from the local regulations as to rates be, and hence that we are being robbed, in a way, in order that fares, practices, and everything else. . ' the dividends may be paid. l\fy amendment simply proposes to I am as much against the proposition of the gentleman from put an end to watered stocks and bonds, so the people will not Arkansas as anything else, becau e it is as vicious as any. We have to pay excess transportation fares and tolls. can not recognize the power of the Federal Government to do a l\fr. BARTLETT of Georgia. May I ask the gentleman a thing because we want it and think it good. The same power question? would be used for bad purposes we do not want. I want all Mr. UACON. Yes. to understand that while the great·party we repreSC''.lt believes 1\Ir. BARTLETT of Georgia. Is it not a· fact now, under the in honesty anq disapproves of the overissue of stocks and bonds, decisions construing what you have to pay on, you can not it believes in the true principles of an honest republican form of make them pay on stocks and bonds watered? We can not make popular government as intended to be secured by the union of people pay now freight rates upon those watered stocks and these States, and it believes that the maintenance of local bonds. authority to transact the business and protect the domestic con Mr. MACON. If that is· the case, I have never seen it de cerns of the country is far more important than this prefer..m veloped to where anybody could see it. tial legislation sought in the benefit and interest of the st.vck Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. The Supreme Court of the and bond holders of the railroads of the country. United States, in passing upon that, say that would not have to Mr. .MANN. Mr. Chairman, I move that all debate upon the be considered. section and all amendments thereto be now closed. l\Ir. MACON. If this amendment is adopted you can see it, .Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. I hope the gentleman will because it will be plainly written ip.to the law, . and railroads withhold that request. I have an amendment to offer, and t will not be permitted to engage in interstate commerce hi this would like to_speak for about five minutes. XIV--370 5906 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, Mr. MANN. The gentleman will have a chance to talk on Mr. CARY. This takes the place of sections 13, 14, and 15. the amendment. The CHAIRMAN. It can not be offered until the section has .1\Ir. HUGHES of New Jersey. It is on the section. been read. The CHAIR1\1AN. The question is on the motion of the Mr. MANN. I make the point of order that the motion is not gentleman from Illinois, that all debate on this section and in order. amendments thereto be now closed. The CH.AIRMAN. The Chair sustains the point of order, for The question was taken, and the motion was agreed to. the reason stated. The question recurs on the motion of the .1\Ir. MACON. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that gentleman from Georgia, to strike out the entire section. I may be al1owed to ask the gentleman from Georgia [Mr. The question was taken, and the Chairman announced that .ADAMSON] a question. the noes seemed to have it. Mr. MANN. How much time does the gentleman want? Mr. ADAMSON. Division! Mr. MACON. Two minutes. . The committee divided; and there were-ayes 49, noes 87. l\ir. MANN. I will not object. So the motion to strike out was rejected. There was no objection. The Clerk read as follows : Mr. MACON. My question is simply this: Is there anything SEc. 14. That a new section be added to said act to regulate com in the amendment that I have offered that seeks to take from merce, to be numbered as section 26, as follows: the States any part of their power to regulate or control rail " SEC. 26. That in case at any time it shall be proposed by or pur suant to any plan of reorganization of any railroad corporation or cor roads in any sense of the word? If so, I would be pleased to porations incorporated prior to January 1, 1910, the properties whereof have the gentleman point it out. shall be in tbe bands of a receiver or of receivers. or shall be subject to Mr. ADAMSON. If I understood its reading, Mr. Chairman, be sold in any suit or suits or other judicial proceedings for foreclosure of any mortgage or deed of trust heretofore executed, or for the dissolu it recognizes the power of Congress to interdict and control the tion or winding up of such corporation, or to procure the satisfaction of amount of stocks and bonds that a state corporation may issue. its debts or the application of its property thereto, pending at the time That is the way I understand it. of such proposal, that any corporation utilized or to be utilized for the purposes of such reorganization, which at such time sh.all be, or, when Mr. MACON. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman evidently does organized and opeYa.ting, will be, subject to the provisions of this act as not understand the reading of the amendment. amended (every corporation so utilized or to be utilized being herein Mr. ADAMSON. Then I ask unanimous consent that it be after referred to by the term • new corporation '), shall issue stock and bonds and other evidences of indebtedness, or any thereof, tor any pur- - read for information. pose connected with or relating to any part of its business governed by - The CHAIBMAN. The gentleman from Georgia [Mr... A.DAM this act, as amended, application for any certiflcate of the Interstate SON] asks n:nanimons consent that the amendment may be again Commerce Commission that may be requisite under the provisions of this section may be ma.de by any person, committee, or representatives reported. Is there objection? of any committee, or by manage1·s having in charge the formulating or There was no objection. carrying out of any such plan of reorganization, and such certificate The amendment was aguin read. may be issued to such person, committee, representatives, or managers Ur. ADAMSON. Further answering the gentleman from for the use of the new corporation; and the issue pursuant to such plan of reorganization by any new corporation of stock, whether of a single A.I·kansas [Mr. MAcoN], if that does not authorize- the Federal class or of two or more classes. as may be- authorized by law, to an Government to interfere by veto power with the authority of the amount in the- aggregate not exceeding the fair estimated value of the state corporations as to the management of their business, I property of the corporation or corporations so reorganized. or to be reorganized., which shall be ascertained by the Interstate Commerce do not understand the English language. Commission, and which aggregate amount shall be stated in a certificate The CHAIRUAN. The gentleman's time bas expired. All issued by said commission to such person, committee, representatives, time has expired. or managers for the use of the new corporation, and in no case shall exceed the aggregate a.mount of the par value of the stocks of the Mr. MACON. Then the gentleman and myself do not under corpe>ra.tion or corporations reorganized or to be reorganized; and the stand the English language alike. issue by any new corporation of bonds. and other evidences of indebted The CHAIRMAN. The question recurs on the amendment ness, whether unsecured or secured by mortgage upon. said properties or otherwise, to an aggregate amount not exceeding the amount of new offered by the gentleman from Arkansas. money paid to the new corporation pursuant to such plan of reorganiza· The question wa.s taken, and the amendment was rejected. tion, and the amounts of bonds and other obligations and debts, includ · Mr. SABATH. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer the following ing receiver's liabilities, which at the time of such sale or sales may have constituted claims or charges, whether legal or equitable, upon or amendment against the corporation or corporations so reorganized, or the properties The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Illinois offers an thereof, and provision for the payment of which or the delivery of amendment, which the Clerk will report. securities of the new corporation in ex.change for which shall be made in such, plan, shall not be deemed to be prohibited by anything con The Clerk ren.d as follows: tained in this act: Provided, That the aggregate amount of interest Strike out all after the word " loan," In line 4, page 84, and insert : charges agreed to be paid by the new corporation or to which its prop " It shall be unlawful for any common carrier subjeet to this act to erty will be subject shall not exceed the aggregate amount of the in issue any bonds or other securities after the passage of this act which terest cha.fges to which the corporation or corporations so reorganized are convertible into the capital stoek of said common carrier o~ any or their properties shall have been subject ; and nothing in this act shall other common carrier. All bonds issued after the passage of this act be deemed to prohibit the new corporation from assuming any bonds, shall have a provision inserted in the body thereof, as well as in the debts, or other obligations o1 the corporation or corporations so reorgan· mort~age whereun.der they are issued, whereby said bonds shall be ized In place of which it might, in accordance with the rules prescribed amortized and redeemed within a period of not to exceed thirty years by this section, issue its own stocks, bonds, or other obligations; trom and after the issue thereof." " In case two or more railroad corporations subject to the provisions The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. ot this a.ct, as amended. shall be consolidated or merged pursuant to the laws of a State- or States applicable thereto, and such consolidation or Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. l\Ir. Chairman, I offer the fol merger shall consist in uniting the organizations, properties, businesses, lowing amendment. and stocks o1 said corporations; and if the Interstate Commerce Com mission shall have ascertained and stated in a certificate issued by it to The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from New Jersey offers an the corporations in respect to which such consolidation or merger is to amendment, which tbe Clerk will report. take place or shall have taken place, or to one of them (or to any per The Clerk read as follows : son, committee, or representatives of any committee, or to managers havin~ in charge the formulating or caq·ying out of any plan ot re Pa,g'e 82, after line 4, add : oro-amzation such as ls he-reinbefore mentioned under which the cor "All such certillcates {)f stock or bonds shall bear upon their face a poration that is to issue new securities to be distributed under such stat ement of their value when Issued, and every president, vice-presi plan will be a corporation resulting from any consolidation or consoli dent, director, or other ~overning officers of any common carriers sub dations merger or mergers), that the stock to be issued by such con ject to the provisions of this act shall be held to be personally liable s.olidated corporation and the bonds and other obligations, if any, to in damages to any pnrchaser of said stock or bonds to the amount of be assumed and issued thereby does not exceed the fair estimated value the difference between the actual amount in money or property received of the properties of such consolidated corporation, nothing in this act by the common carrier and the a.mount as indicated by the statement contained shall be deemed to prohibit the ISsue of snch stock and bonds on the face of the certificates of stock or bonds." and other obligations, or any of them, or the assumption of all or any l\Ir. HUGHES of New Jersey. Mr. Chairman, I ask unani of the bonds or other obligations of the corporations so consolidated mous consent that I may be permitted to speak to the amend or merged. "Nothing in this act contained shall prevent a railroad corporation ment for fi>e minutes. [Cries of "Regular order! "] subject to the provisions of this act, as amended. from acquiring the The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. stock and bonds of another railroad corporation, subject to said act, The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. which is not direetly and substantially competitive with that of such first-mentioned corporation, by the issue of its own stock and bonds, Mr. ADAMSON. I move to strike out the section. provided the aggregate amount of the par values of the stocks and bonds Mr. CARY. I wish to offer an amendment. so issued shall not exceed the fair value of the property of the cor The CHAIRMA.N. The gentleman from Wisconsin offers an poration whose stock and bonds are so acquired, which value shall be ascertained by the Interstate Comm~rce Commission. amendment which takes precedence of. the. motion to strike out. " But nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorhe or The Clerk will report the amendment. to validate or permit the consolidation or merger in any manner of two '.rhe Clerk rea.d as follows : or more corporations in violation of any act of Congress, including the act approved July 2, 1890, entitled 'An act to protect trade and com Strike out sections 13, 14, and 15, including line 9, page 79, down to merce- against unlawful restraints and monopolies.' " and inclndlng line 21, page 89, and substitute therefore the following. Mr. MANN. I make the point of order against that. ?tlr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I offer the :following amend The CHAIRMAN. We have not read section 15. ment. \ 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. I 5907 The Clerk read as follows: When an insolvent railroad company is to be reorganized, it Amend, page 87, line 1, by inserting after the word "subject," the is usually necessary to raise new IBoney to put the road in an following: efficient working condition ; the additional money must be sup "Proi:ided further. That the aggregate amount of stocks, bonds, and other evidences of indebtedness issued or assumed by the new corpo plied by the old stockholders by means of an assessment, and ration shall not exceed the fair estimated value of the property of the in exchange they must be given bonds well secured. In order corporation or corporations so reorganized or to be reorganiz~d •. as to accomplish this, and the further essential of reducing fixed stated in the certificate issued by the Interstate Commerce. Commission, plus the amount of new money paid to such new corporation pursuant charges, the old bondholders must often consent to accept pre to the plan of reorganization." . ferred stock in place of their bonds. If all o{ the old stock holders and bondholders would consent, no foreclosure sale The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment. would be necessary, and the reorganization could be worked out Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer some under the provisions of the preceding section; but since a -amendments to this section, four in number, and will send small minority of the security holders may refuse to consent, them all to the Clerk's desk. and insist upon being bought off, it is necessary to foreclose The CHAIRMAN. Action will first be taken on the amend- and take over the properties by what is nominally 3: new com ment of the gentleman from Illinois. pany, which will issue its securities in exchange for the old. The question was taken, and the motion was agreed to. In substance, however, the companies are the same, and while Mr. l\IANN. I offer a further amendment. technically it is a new i~sue of securities which, therefore, would The Clerk read as follows : come within the rules of the preceding section, yet, as a practi Amend, page 88, line 17, by inserting after the word "Commission" cal matter, such new securities are but new pieces of paper th~,J~~~~~~g .:rhat the stock and bonds of another railroad corpo~atioli substituted for the old, representing the same interests in the so acquired shall not be in any way sold or distribut~d by the ra~h:oad same properties. The exception then of such a transaction corporation acquiring them, except in accordance with the prov1s1ons from the rules of the preceding section is more apparent than of section 25 of this act relating to the issuance of stock and bonds, which are hereby made applicable thereto." • real. The bill, which looks to the future and is not an attempt to reduce the capitalization of companies whose securities have The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. already been lawfully issued, shoulu not prevent such a reor Mr. ADAl\ISON. Mr. Chairman, I want to offer the same ganization. amendment that I offered to section 13, that the provisions shall The transaction is analogous to that authorized by the pro not apply to any railroad or railroads the entire line of which viso on page 81, which authorizes the refunding of outstanding is within a State. obligations by the issue of new securities to such an amount as The Clerk read as follows : may be necessary for that purpose. Amend by adding at the end of section 14 : The proposed amendment, by providing that the aggregate " The provisions of this section shall not apply to any railroad or of the new securities ~hall not exceed the aggregate of the old, railroads the entire line of which is wholly within any one State." plus the amount of new money pa id in-the issue of securities The question was taken, and the amendment was rejecte.d. for which p;.u·pose would be authorizen in any event by the pre Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, r offer the following ceding section-and by further providing that the aggregate in amendment. terest charges shall not be incren.sed, is full protection against The Clerk read as follows: the fictitious iESue of new securities and merely permits weaker Strike out be!!i.nning on page 85, line 23, beginning with the words roads now in the hands of receiYers to maintain the status quo " to an amo~t,'7 down to and including the word "act,'' page 86, line as to their securities, though t echnically changing the naine of 21 and insert the following : · . " and of bonds and other evidences of indebtedness, whether unsecured the company. Unle~s so permit ed, it will be impossible for or secured by mortgage or otherwise, to such an extent that the aggre the old security holders, who ha rn invested their money in good gate amount of such securities shall ~ot exceed tl:~e par value of tlle stocks of the corporation or corporat10ns reorgamzed or to be reor faith :md who are the ones most interested in the success of ganized and of the bonds and other obligations, including receiver's the road, to retain control, and there will be no inducement to liabilities, which may hav~ constituted clai!Ds or charges, ~hether legal them to adYance the new money, which may be all that is or equitable upon or agarnst the corpo1·~tion or corporation~ ~eorgan lzed or to be reorganized or the properties the1:eof and prov1s1ons for needed to make the road prosperous. the payment of which or the delivery of securities of the new corpora Under the amendment offered by the gentleman from Illinois tion in exchange for which shall ·be made in such plan, and of the the new securities issued are restricted to the fair value of the money paid or to be paid to the new corporation pursuant to s~ch plan pro11erty of the roads r eorganized; and in the case of rqads o! of reorganization, shall not be deemed to be prohibited by anythmg con tained in this act." · this character it might we1l be that at the time of reorganiza tion the market value of the property might be less than the Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, this is the first time that value of the securities outstanding. ·the National Government has undertaken to regu1ate the issue The CHAIRl\IAN. The time of the gentleman from Massa of securities by carriers. For the present I not on1y assume the chusetts bas expired. power of Congress to legislate upon this subject, but the wisdom Mr. .MANN. How much more time does the gentleman desire? of so doing. I believe, however, that in legislating upon so l\Ir. WASHBURN. I should like to have it in sections of delicate a matter as this we sh-ould proceed with abundant cau five minutes. tion, and should not impose any greater restrictions upon the Mr. MANN. I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman's issue of securities of carriers than are necessary to fulfill the time be extended five minutes. purpose which we all have in view. Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. Regular order! Section 14 relates to the· reorganization of existing roads The CHAIRMAN. The gent.leman from New Jersey objects. which for one reason or another have fallen into the hands of The gentleman's time has expired. The question recurs on receivers and must be reorganized. the amendment offered by the gentleman from Massachusetts. The purpose of my amendment is to allow corporations that were in existence on the 1st of January, 1910, in case reorgani [Mr. DICKINSON addressed the comml.ttee. See Appendix.] zation becomes necessary, to have when reorganized the same The CHAIRMAN. The question recurs on the amendment amount of securities that they now have. offered by the gentleman from l\lassachusetts [Ur. WASHBURN]. The entire section concerning reorganization is of importance The question being taken, the amendment was rejected. only to the weaker railroad companies whose securities are sell l\Ir. WASHBURN. l\1r. Chairman, I offer another amend ing below par. Other companies would not be affected, even if ment. the securities issued under reorganization were governed by the The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will report the amendment of strictest possible rule. fered by the gentleman from l\Iassachusetts. The bill at present permits the issue of stock- The Clerk read as follows: to an amount in the aggregate. not exceeding _the fair estimat~d value Strike out, page 87, lines 4, 5, and 6, and insert the following: of the property of the corporat10n or corporat10ns so reorganized or to "which by the plan of reorganization are to remain undisturbed. If be reoraanized • * • and in no case shall exceed the aggregate any such plan of reorganization shall contemplate that as a step to the amount., of the par value of the ~tocks of the corporation or corpora carrying out thereof several corporations shall be utilized, and that tions reorganized or to be reorganized. there shall be consolidations of some or all of them, or the acquisition by any of them of the property or securities of the others, the applica Under the general theory of the bill, as shown in section 13, tion for the certificate of the Interstate Commerce Commission shall both stocks and bonds may be issued at their reasonable value so set forth, and the corporation which under the plan is to issue the to an amount not greater than the value of the property ac securities distributable thereunder, whether a corporation resulting from such consolidation or otherwise, shall not be prohibited from quired. The effect of the provision in section 14, which I have issuing its stock, bonds, or other evidences of indebtedness in conformity quoted, is that stock can only be issued at its par value to an with the provisions in respect of a new corporation contained in this amount not greater than the value of the property acquired, paragraph." and the result is a real discrimination against companies that l\Ir. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of this amend are compelled to go through reorganization. ment with reference to consolidations is to make it clear that '5908 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, the bill does not interfere with procedure which may be made having stricken out all of section 12 of the bill, that pa.rt of the necessary by the varying state laws. If a railway runs through bill, on page 88, from lines 7 to 17, inclusive, should be recast, several States, it is :frequently necessary on foreclosure, in and it was for that purpose that my amendment was offered. order to vest title to the entire line ill the new company, to The CHAIR.MAN. The question is on the amendment offered have a separate sale of the several parcels running through by the gentleman from· Massachusetts. each State, forming for that purpose temporary corporations The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. in each State to take over each parce~ and subsequently, Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment to strike whether by purchase or by consolidation, combining the proper out the lines referred to by the gentleman from Massachusetts, ties in the new company. This is a mere piece of machinery on page 88, from line 7 down to and including line 17. which prevents the breaking up of a line of railway belonging The CH.AIRMAN. The gentleman from Tennessee will offer to a single company which has become insolvent. It can not an amendment, which the Clerk will report. in any way authorize the consolidation of previously competing The Clerk read as follows: lines. It is impossible to lay down a general rule in advance On page 88, strike out line 7, down to and including line 17. as to how all reorganizations shall be effected. There are as Mr. NORRIS. Mr. Chairman, I want to say to the gentle many possible different methods as there are varying state laws, man that we have adopted an amendment to that provision that and unless the act is made flexible in this respect it will fre the gentleman wants to strike out. quently be found to prohibit the reorganization of a road in one Mr. SIMS. I do not know whether the amendment strikes part of the country, while permitting it in another. The limita out any part of this. tions on the issue of securities which are finally to be distributed Mr. MANN. The amendment goes in as a part of that para to the public remains the same. graph. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered Mr. SIMS. Then I move to strike out the paragraph as com by the gentleman from Massachusetts. pleted, including the amendment of the gentleman from Illi The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. nois, although I have no objection to the amendment if this Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following part of the section remains in. amendment. Here is the language I wish to strike out, and I hope the The Clerk read as follows: members of the committee will listen to it: Insert after the word "mergers," page 87, line 221 the following: Nothing in this act contained shall prevent a railroad corporation " either that the stock to be issued by such consohda.ted corporation subject to the provisions of this act, as amended, from acquiring the does not exceed the amount of stock of the corporations so consoli stock and bonds of another railroad corporation, subject to said net, dated or merged, a.nd tbat by such consolidation or me!ger there is no which is not directJy and sub tantially competitive with that of such increase in the aggregate amount of, or the aggregate mterest payable first-mentioned corporation, by the issue of its own stock and bonds.r upon. the bonds or other obligations of the corporations so consolidated provided the aggre~ate amount of the par values of the stocks ana or merged or." bonds so issued shall not exceed the fair vaiue o:t'. the property of the Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, this is a case of a con corporation whose stock and bonds are so acquired, which value shall solidation of connecting, and not competing, lines. Such con be a certained by the Interstate Commerce Commission. solidation, however, can not take place if the holders of the old :Mr. Chairman, the lines I have read here permit, or do not secm·ities are compelled to accept new securities of less par prohibit, a practical merger through stock ownership, and even · value, and the purpose of this amendment is merely to permit the question of whether they are substantially and directly com the exchange of such old securities, par for par, for new secu petiti1e is not submitted to the Interstate Commerce Commis- rities·without increasing the aggregate amount or without in ion. The only thing submitted to the Interstate Commerce Com creasing the aggregate interest charges. A consolidated corpora mission is as to the fair value of the property for which the tion is technically a new company, and its securities are tech tocks. and bonds are is ued. I can not see, after having nically new securities, but as a matter of substance it i , in fact, sh·icken out section 7, as to agreements, and section 12, as to the old companies combined, and the amount of securities in mergers, why we should permit this langua"'e to remain in the the hands of the public will remain as before the con olidation. bill, by which the same re ults can be practically obtained Unless this amendment is adopted the whole paragraph, which that is, by permitting railroads that are not substantially and purports to make possible con so Iida tion of connecting lines, directly competitive, and that question left to nobody to decide., would better be stricken out, as it will entirely fail to accom so far as this act is concerned-to own the stock of any other plish its purpose. company. What is to hinder them from consolidating, from Mr. MANN. How does that change the provisions in the bill? merging, if one railroad can buy stock sufficient to control Mr. W .ASHBURN. It changes the provisions in the bill to another railroad? What good is to come of it? What is the the extent that it permits the alternative measure of the amount object of keeping this language in after we have stricken out of securities to be issued. In the bill the issue of new securities the merger features in section 12? is limited to the fair value of the property, and this amendment As a matter of course, if it is to stay in, then the amendment introduces the other alternative not to exceed the amount of the of the gentleman from Illinois is valuable and proper; but with existing securities. this language out of the bill, if I understand it correctly, I do Mr. MANN. Let me see if I understand the gentleman. not think it is material that the amendment of the gentleman Under the terms of the bill, if the two roads were valued at from Illinois should remain in the bill. Perhaps I may be mis $10,000,000 the new stock could not exceed $10,000,000? taken as to that. Perhaps the amendment applies to other por l\Ir. W .ASHBURN. Yes; under the terms of the bill. tions of this section be ides the language that I seek to sh~ike l\Ir. 1\1.ANN. If each company had $10,000,000 of stock out out. standing, under the gentleman's amendment they might issue Ur. MANN. That amendment applies only to this paragraph. twenty millions of stock. l\fr. SIMS. Then, if the paragraph is stricken out, the Mr. W .ASHBURN. They might, but there would be no more amendment will not be germane. of the new securities than of the old. .Mr. :MAJ\TN. That might not necesi::arily follow; \mt the The CH.AIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered amendment could not very well stay in unless this patagraph by the gentleman from Massachusetts. stays in, and the amendment is of great value whether the para The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. graph is in or not Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following l\Ir. SIMS. Does it apply to anything in the bill except this amendment. paragraph? The Clerk read as follows: Mr. MANN. It applies to the purchases of stocks by one cor Page 88, strike out, beginning line 9, with the words " from acquir poration of another. ing" down to and includin"' the words "and bonds," line 12. Line 14, Mr. SIMS. If the amendment can remain as a substantial strike out the word "fail',':;' and insert the word "par." Lines 14 and 15, strike out the words "p,roperty of the corporation whose" and the part of the bill with these lines stricken out, I do not wish to ' words " are" and " which. ' Strike out lines 16 and 17, so that that strike it out, as a matter of course. • part of the section, from lines 7 to 17, inclusive, on page 88, will read Mr. MANN. It could not without being reformed. Mfulli~ : . "Nothing in this act contained shall prevent a railroad corporation Mr. SIMS. Then I wish to strike these lines out -to prevent subject to the provisions of this act as amended from issuing its own a merger through stock ownership, and if that motion prevails stock and bonds for the purpose of lawfully acquiring the stock and then the amendment of the gentleman from Illinois can be s~ bonds of another railroad corporation subject to this act, provided the aggregate amount· of the par values of the stocks and bonds so issuea modified, I take it, as to apply to such portion of the bill as it shall not exceed the par value of the stock and bonds so ac?-uired." ought to apply to with these lines stricken out Also, in line 18, after the word "nothing," insert the words ' in this .Mr. W .ASHBURN. How are you going to get a merger if section contained " and strike out the word " herein." these lines are left in the bill? Mr. W .ASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, this section as it stands in Mr. SIMS. It says nothing shall prevent one corporation .. the bill is hardly worth perfecting, as it will :tall utterly to or railroad from buying the stock of another. serve the purpose it is intended to serve. To those who are Mr. WASHBURN. But the gentleman ha.s not read far interested in retaining section 14 of the bill, I would say that enough in the section. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5909 Mr. SllIS. I have rea.d all of this paragraph. occurs, to squeeze out the water, and this is one of the neces- Mr. WASHBURN. The whole section is subject to the pro sary provisions to do that. ' visions o:t the Sherman antitrust act. Mr. HARDY. Will the gentleman answer this question? l\Ir. SIMS. It says this provision shall not render it immune Mr. MANN. If I can, I will. from the Sherman antitn1st act; but if I understand the Sher Mr. HARDY. Do I understand that this bill as it now stands man antitrust act, it prohibits unlawful agreements in restraint provides that where one road buys the stocks of another it of trade. will not result in duplicating the amount of outstanding stock? The CH.AIR~iAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. Mr. MANN. We adopted an amendment a few moments ago Mr. SIMS. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to pro- providing that where one road acquires the stock and bonds ceed for three minutes more. of another those stocks and bonds could not be resold by the The CHAIR~fAN. Is there objection? company acquiring them, except under the provisions of the act There was no objection. in reference to the ·sale ot the new stock, which would mean Mr. SIMS. The purchase of stock by one corporation or by the consent of the Interstate Commerce Comm1ssion forcer railroad of another is not of itself, as I understand it, neces tain purposes at a price fixed by the comm1ssion. sarily an agreement in restraint of trade. It is true in the Mr. SIMS. Does the existing law now include the language Northern Securities case, where a corporation was organized which is here used, of" directly and substantially competitive?" for the purpose of carrying out, in effect, such an agreement, Does not that amend the existing law? it was held to be subject to that act, but with a corporation Mr. MANN. This whole paragraph amends the existing law. buying the stock of another corporation with an act here pro Mr. SIMS. I understand it ls all new law, so to speak. viding that nothing in the act shall preyent such a transaction .Mr. MANN. This is all new law, and this is a limitation upon as that, I do not see that the Sherman antitrust law necessarily the right of one railroad company to purchase the stock of renders void such a purchase. another. Mr. WASHBURN. I will say to the gentleman that I have The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered no particular interest in the original section or any part as it by the gentleman from Wisconsin. stands-- The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. Mr. SIMS. Then the gentleman will favor my motion, I take The CH.A.IBM.AN. The question is on the motion of the gen ft. I think it will be a substantial benefit to the bill to strike tleman from Tennessee [Mr. SIMS} to strike out the paragraph out those lines. I do not see why we should have a declaration as amended, between lines 7 and 17, on page 88. that this act shall not prevent the purchase o.f stocks of one The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. railroad corporation in another subject to this act, where it is Mr. LENROOT. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out section not directly and substantiall7 competitive, with no one to deter- 14 as amended. On that motion I desire to say this: The mine whether that is the :fact or not. . amendment proposed by the chairman of the committee, and Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I move that all debate on the which has been adopted-- amendment close in five minutes. Ur. MANN. I wonder If we could reach an agreement about Mr. LENROOT. I would like t0> offer an amendment before time for debate. the gentleman does that. Mr. MANN. I will withhold the motion. Mr. LENROOT. Five minutes will be satisfactory to me. Mr. LENROOT. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amend Mr. MANN. I ask unanimous consent that debate on this ment. section and all amendments thereto be closed in fifteen minutes. 'l'he Clerk read as follows : The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? Amend section 14, on page 88, line 7, by inserting, after the word There was no objectio11.. "acquiring," the words "the entire issue o!." Mr. LENROOT. Mr. Chairman, the amendments that have Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I move that all debate on the been adopted this evening to this section do limit the issuance paragraph and all amendments thereto close in five minutes. of stocks and bonds to the value of the property and meet the Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer an amendment. criticism I made on a former occasion upon this section, so far Mr. MANN. To this paragraph? as stock watering is concerned. ·But there is still one vice run Mr. HARDY. Yes; to this paragraph-to this section under ning through each paragraph in this section, and that is that consideration. while the issue of bonds is limited to the fair value of the prop Mr. MANN. I am not talking about the section, but to this erty, nevertheless the stocks may be issued to their par value, paragraph. whereas, in fac.1:, the stocks of the road acquiring the property Mr. HARDY. Well, to the paragraph under consideratlo~ may be worth much more than par. · Under section 13 every The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Illinois moves that legitimate case is covered that is covered by section 14. all debate on the paragraph and amendments thereto close in I noticed in the papers to-night that the Union Pacific Rail five minutes. way stock was quoted to-day on Wall street at 180. If the The question was taken, and the motion was agreed to. Union Pacific Railway desired to acquire another railroad Mr. HARDY. I only desire two minutes.. through merger, under section 13 they would be compelled to Mr. MANN. The gentleman can have his two minutes. go to the Interstate Commerce Commission, secure an authori Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, I wish to amend, on page 88, zation for the issue of stocks for the purchase of that property, line 17, after the word " commission/' by adding the following: and the Interstate Commerce Commission would determine the Provided, That the stocks and bonds of such noncompetitive roads so amonnt and the price of the stock to be issued, and it the stock acquired by the issue of other stocks and bonds be held and in no wise of the Union Pacific was worth 180 the commission would de sold or converted by the acquiring corporation. termine that a much less amount than the par value of the Mr. MANN. We have already agreed to an amendment that stocks should be issued to purchase that property. covers that. But under section 14, assuming that the value of the railroad 1\fr. HARDY. Then I will not offer the amendment. purchased is $10,000,000, they may issue their stock, quoted Mr. MANN. l\Ir. Chairman, the amendment to the paragraph at 180, for the pa! value to the full amount of $10,000,000, offered by the gentleman from Wisconsin is perfectly satisfac whereas the stock lS actually worth $18,000,000. And I assert tory, and the paragraph will then provide that one railroad that that is a grievous wrong upon the innocent stockholders company will not be prohibited from acquiring the entire stock of the Union Pacific Railway. There is no occasion for the and bonds of another railroad company which is not competi Union Pacific or any other road having the advantages of sec tive. This paragraph as originally written provided that noth tion 14, for they have every legitimate right that they ought ing in "this section," that was the old section 13 of the bill or to have under section 13. That section provides that when section 14 of the bill, and we changed it to read " in this act." stock is issued for property the Interstate Commerce Commis The paragraph had no connection with sec:tion 12 which was sion shall determine the value of the property, and no cir stricken out. It. is not an extension of authority. It is a limi cumstances can be conceived where section 13 does not cover tation of authority, that where two railroad companies are not the ground. It has been suggested that section 14 is intended competitive, and wish to extend some lines and wish to con to relieve minority stockholders where the railroads are in the solidate, and one of them purchases stocks and bonds o.f the hands of receiverships, but I submit that they have exactly the other company, they can not issue any more stocks and bonds same protection in every particular under section 13. Where than the fair value of the property which is so acquired. The they are in the hands of receiverships, and it is proposed to sell whole purpose of this paragraph is necessary to carry into the them or merge t]lem into another company, the court will law, because with-0ut it, notwithstanding the opinion of my always protect the rights of the minority stockholders, whether friend from Tennessee, if one railroad in the extension of its the application to . the commission be under section 13 or line acquires another railroad it might issue more stock than a whether the railroad operates· under section 14. fair value of the line so acquired. We are endeavoring by this Section 14 simply permits the railroads to issue stock at par bill, all through these paragraphs wherever the opportunity yalue where the actual value might be double the par value, 5910 CONGRESSION ~L\.L RECORD-HOUSE. ~fAY 6,. and in that way permit the managers and manipulators of least have to acknowledge a stand off. The gentleman from roads to secure undue advantages for themselves; to do what Illinois is very much distressed about minority stockholders. has been done in many cases, issue stocks at par value when the He may spare his tears. They are all gone-long since departed, actual value was a great deal more than that amount. squeezed to death by Wall Street long ago. We would like to Mr. WASHBURN. Mr. Chairman, I find myself in complete prevent the passage of these sections, because we want to build accord with my friend from Wisconsin. [Laughter and ap some local railroads where there will be some old-fashioned plause.] I have made an ineffectual attempt to add some local stockholders, so the people and the owners of the railroad ~mendments to this section 14 which would make it workable. will be acquainted, have mutual interest, and entertain mutual Those amendments have not found favor with the committee. regard for one another. Now, the people have just as much re Let me repeat what I said early in this discussion-that this gard for the distant and unknown stock and bond holders as section 14 was devised for the purpose of enabling roads in the tenants have always had.for alien landlords, and the stock and hands of receivers, the weak roads, to reorganize. This section bond holders, far removed in geography and financial interest, is not needed by the strong roads. Being thoroughly inadequate caring for no man but themselves, worshiping no god but in its present form to effect the purpose for which it was money, care just as little for the people among whom the rail originally designed, I shall be most happy to join hands with road runs as an alien landlord ever cared for his tenants. We my friend from Wisconsin and any other Members of the com need to build a few thousand miles of local railroads for the mittee in voting for the motion to strike it out of the bill. use and convenience of the people that can not be monopolized Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, confronted w~th such a combina by government-favored capitalists and subverted or perverted tion, I feel the cold chills running up my back. [Laughter.] from the purposes of their organization, but such roads as that The gentleman from Wisconsin opposes the section because it the people demanding this legislation do not want, and by the permits the great corporations to issue too much stock. The terms of this bill expect to prevent their existence. The object gentleman from Massachusetts opposed the provision because it of these sections is to enable Wall Street further to consolidate does not allow the little corporations to issue enough stock. and prevent any new, local, and independent lines from ever be [Laughter.] Now, one gentleman opposes the amendment be ing built to serve the people anywhere. Although these sections cause he thinks it goes too far in one way; the other gentleman will clearly be unconstitutional, yet it is hoped by the authors opposes the amendment because it does not go far · enough in of the bill that the power and glamor of Federal Government that direction, but goes too far in another direction. Now, what and administration will be able to intimidate and prevent all does this amendment do? It does not authorize any of the great resistance. [Applause.] corporations, which are not in the hands of the receivers, to The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the issue stock at all, but it guarantees to the minority stockholder, gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. LENROOT] to strike out the sec when a corporation is in the hands of the receiver and it is tion. proposed to reorganize it, that his stock shall be considered in The question being taken; on a division (demanded by Mr. the reorganization. Without this section in the bill, if a rail LENROOT) there were-ayes 58, noes 79. road goes into the hands of a receiver the court in foreclosure Accordingly the motion was rejected. proceedings must order the railroad sold, and it must be sold The Clerk read as follows : . for cash. There is no chance for a reorganization without this SEC. 15. That a new section be added fo said act to regulate com provision in the bill. merce, to be numbered as section 27, as follows : " SEC. 27. That upon application for a certificate of the Interstate The Interstate Commerce Commission, under section 13, can Commerce Commission, pru·suant to the provisions of this act, of which not authorize the issue of stock by a committee of the stock notice shall be served on the United States in like manner as is pro holders appointed to conserve all the interests. The road must vided with respect to notices of bearings upon petition in accordance with the provisions of this act, the commission shall hear and deter be sold for cash. It will be bought ril by Mr. Morgan or Mr. mine the matters as to ·which its certificate is desired, and may make Harriman's successors for cash, and the small stockholders will proper rules and regulations concerning the manner of such applica be squeezed out. Then they will issue the amount of stock tion and the conduct of the bearing. "Any director. officer, or stockholder of such corporation who know necessary. With section 13 only, the little fellow will be ingly and willfully assents to or concurs in any issue of securities for· squeezed out, the minority stockholder or bondholder; and bidden by the provisions of this act shall be punished by a fin e of not after they have gone to the dickens-after these other parties more than $10,000, or imprisonment not longer than three years, or both. have purchased the road at a foreclosure sale-they can issue " Nothing in this act contained shall in any way affect or impair the stock under section 13. There is no provision in this bill so validity of any such stock, certificates of stock, bonds, or other evi necessary for the protection of the small, honest stockholder dences of indebtedness in the hands of innocent holders for value." or bondholder, unable to protect himself as is this section. Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. 'Chairman, I do not wish to consume Without this section in the bill you turn every railroad corpora any time; but I make the same motion I made before, that this tion which passes through the hands of a receiver over to Wall shall not apply to any railroad the entire line of which is within street. Vote' that way if you desire. It delivers a bankrupt one State. · corporation to Wall street. [Applause.] The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Georgia offers an l\Ir. ADAl\ISON. The gentleman promised that I should have amendment, which the Clerk will report one minute. The Clerk read as follows: l\fr. LENROOT. I ask that the gentleman's time may be ex Provided, That the provisions of this section shall not apply to a tended two minutes that I may be able to ask him a question. railroad or railroads the entire line of which is wholly within one State. l\Ir. ADAMSON. Make it fise, and that I shall have three The question being taken, the amendment was rejected. minutes. Mr. ADAMSON. I now move to strike out the section. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman asks that his time may The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the gen be extended. Is there objection? [Cries of "Regular order!"] tleman from Georgia to strike out the section. Objection is heard. Mr. MANN. Is it possible that any gentleman on that side l\Ir. FITZGERALD. Who objected? wants to strike out the penalties section of the bill? l\fr. MANN. I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman The question being taken, the motion was rejected. from Georgia have a minute. 1\ir. CARY. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment. l\Ir. ADAMSON. Nobody will regard it as an object of sus The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Wisconsin offers an picion because the gentleman from Massachusetts has got amendment, which the Clerk will report. right for a minute. The Clerk read as follows : The CHAIRMAN. . Debate is exhausted. Amend as a substitute for the section as follows: l\Ir. ADAMSON. I thought I had consent to talk for a " Sti"ike out sections 13, 14, and 15, being from and including line 9, on page 79, to and including line 21, on page 89, and substitute therefor minute. the following "-- The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. . Mr. MANN. I make the point of order that the amendment Mr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Chairman, the rule requires that has been read far enough to know that it is not in order. anyone· objecting should rise. · The CHAIRMAN. The Chair sustains the .Point of order. Mr. ADAMSON. I do not deny that the court had it, but The amendment is offered to two sections which have been I did not. agreed to. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? [After a pause.] Mr. FINLEY. .Mr. Chairman, I move to amend,- on page 89, The Chair hears none. at the beginning of line 17, by striking out the word "or" and l\fr. ADAMSON. I hope this motion to strike out will pre inserting the word " and." vail. The fact that it is supported by the gentleman from The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from North Carolina offers Massachusetts [Mr. WASHBURN] should not be taken as a an amendment, which the Clerk will report. suspicious circumstance to militate against it. You must re The Clerk read as follows : member that it is also opposed by the gentleman from Illinois Page 89, line 17, J:;efore "imprisonment," strike out "or" and insert [Mr. MANN]. If it is not overbalanced by that fact we will at "and." 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 59II Mr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, I think when directors, officers. The Clerk read as follows : and stockholders of a corporation knowingly and willfully Insert a new section as follows : violate the law, as they would do under this bill, they should be "SEC. 16a. That a new section be added to said act to regulate com merce, to be numbered 28, as follows : both fined and imprisoned. The amendment is short and simple, "'SEC. 28. That all that part of section 2 of "An act extending the and my purpose is to impose both fine and imprisonment. homestead laws and providinJ? for right of way of railroads in the The question being taken; on a division (demanded by Mr. District of Alaska, and for other purpo es," approved May 14, 1898, which authorizes the Secretary of the Interior to modify charges for FINLEY) there were-ayes 43, noes 79. transportation on railroads in the District of Alaska, reading as fol Accordingly the amendment was rejected. lows : "That all charges for the transportation of freight and passen The Clerk read as follows: gers on railroads in the District ot A.la ka shall be printed and posted as required by section 6 of an act to regulate commerce as amended SEC. 16.. That nothing in this act contained shall undo or impair any on March 2, 1889, and such rates shall be subject to revision and modi proceedings heretofore taken by or before the Interstate Commerce Com fl.cn.tion by the Secretary of the Interior," is hereby repealed; and the mi sion or any of the acts of said commission; and in any eases, pro Interstate Commerce Commission shall have full authority ana jurisdic ceedings, or matters now pending before it, the commission may exercise tion under the act of Congress entitled "An act to amend an act en any of the powers hereby conferred upon it, as would be proper in cases, titled 'An act to regulate commerce,' approved February 4, 1887, and proceedings, or matters hereafter initiated; and nothing in this act all acts amendatory thereof, and to enlarge the powers of the Inter contained shall operate to release or atfect any obligation, liability, state Commerce Commission," approved June 29, 1906, and' all amend penalty, or forfeiture heretofore existing against or incurred by any ments thereto in the Territory of Alaska.'" person, corporation, or association. Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order Mr. ADAMSON. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amend on the amendment. ment. Mr. WICKERSHAM. Mr. Chairman, in 1898 Congress passed The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Georgia offers an an act entitled "An act to extend the homestead l~w and provide amendment which the Clerk will report. a right of way for railroads in the District of Alaska, and for The Clerk read as follows: other purposes/' Amend by adding at the end of section 16 the following: That act has not been repealed and is in full force and effect. "The provisions of the last preceding three sections, 13, 14, a.nd 15, The last sentence in section 2 of that act provides: shall not apply nor be held to affect in any manner any railroad here aner constructed, the entire line of which is entirely within the limits That all charges for the transportation of freight and passengers on of any one State, until twelve months shall have elapsed after said rail railroads in the District of Alaska shall be printed and Po ted as re road shall have commenced running trains on regular schedules over its quired by section 6 of an act to regulate commerce, as amended on March 2, 1889, and such rates shall be subject to revision and modifica said line." tion by the Secretary of the Interior. Mr. MANN. I would like to suggest to the gentleman that I The purpose of the amendment now offered is to repeal that am willing to take a vote at the proper time, but if this amend clause in the act of 1898. Unless that clause is repealed there ment is adopted, I want it to go in at another place in the bill, is a divided jurisdiction over railroad rates in the Territory of because it doe not belong here. Alaska. The interstate laws now extend to the Territory of l\1r. ADAMSON. I do not care how it is numbered. Those Alaska, but the Secretary of the Interior has the power and sections, if adopted, would be unconstitutional, yet their enforce jurisdiction to revise and modify .,.the railroad rates in that men t might be attempted and would raise something in the Territory, and the Interstate Commerce Commission does not nature of a cloud on title. The United States is to represent have that or any jurisdiction in respect to rates. efforts to maintain and enforce this legislation. It would have I call the attention of the House to the statement recently to be resisted in order to prevent its enforcement if the United made by Mr. Knapp, the chairman of the Interstate Commerce States undertook it. Capital is shy and timid, and would hesi Commission, before the Committee on Interstate and Foreign tate to invest in an enterprise threatened with destruction and Commerce, wherein he said in relation to the question before absorption by the terms of this bill until it is declared uncon the House: stitutional. The effect of it will be to deter development and The first section of this bill, with one or two minor amendments improvement through the whole southwestern part of the coun which I shall presently suggest, is approved by the commission in its If entirety. It is regarded by us as a very careful and comprehensive try in railroad construction. you will give us until we can statement of the substantive provisions of the present law, as contained get the baby dressed and get it on its feet and trained to walk, in the first section, with some additions which we regard as very de and allow it voluntarily to go into interstate business, then you sirable, if not necessary, particularly in that this bill makes it plain can apply these sections to it, if any of them are held to be con that the law would extend to and the commission would have jurisdic tion under it of railroads in Alaska, which we believe is not the case stitutional. under the present law. If you let us organize and build a few local railroads, I admit So that it was his expressed judgment that under the present that you can force them into interstate commerce and make law the Interstate Commerce Commission does not have juris them subject to the law when they begin to interchange business diction in Alaska. Now, it is also the expressed judgment ot with the other railroads of the country, but I implore you not the Secretary of the Interior that he does not have jurisdiction to deter the construction and improvement now going on. It is over railroad rates in Alaska, and I desire to read a very brief known that you can make them subject to the commerce law oplnlon upon that subject, written by Hon. Frank Pierce, the as soon as they do any commerce business, and I have no Assistant Secretary of the Interior, and dated July 3, 1909, and doubt of the unconstitutionality of these sections, but capita.I recently µitrodnced into the hearings before the Balllnger will ~o into other channels rather than enter an enterprise Pinchot committee. It is as follows : requi11Rg litigation. If you will allow them to .organize and DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, get to work, it will be time enough after that to put the stric Washington, July 3, 1909. tures on them and compel them to fight the constitutionality 'rhe COMMISSIONER OF THE GE?'."Elt.AL LAND OFFICE. of the e sections. Srn: I am in receipt of yonr communication of June 24, 1909, trans Mr. MANN. :Mr. Chairman, just a word. The bill as it mitting for approval freight classiilcation and freight and passenger stands does not affect a railroad corporation being constructed tarifl' schedules of the Copper River and Northwestern Railway Com pany, Alaska, under provisions of the act of May 14, 1898 (30 Stats.• in a State not engaged in interstate commerce. The gentleman's 409). amendment proposes to grant to a railroad twelve months in The Interstate Commerce Commission, after the pas age of the act of June 29, 1906 (34 Stats., 534), expre sed the opinion that Alaska which it can run the printing presses and issue watered stock, should be held to be a Territory within the meaning of the term as and after that it would not muke much difference whether you used in that act, and that jurisdiction over railroads in Alaska has had stock restrictions or not. been transferred to the commi sion notwithstanding the provisions of section 2 of the act of May 14, 1 !)8, supra, specially vesting jurisdic Mr. AD.A.1\ISON. I want to say, lUr. Chai~an, that I deny tion In the Secretary of the Interior. and repel the charge that I or anybody on this side favors In view of the act cited and of the position taken by the Interstate watered stock or dishonest bonds. The purpose of the bill is Commerce Commission, this department will not at this time act upon the schedules submitted, and you will so advise the Copper River to create a cure for all of them. We are in favor of honesty, Company. but we want to be let alone until we can organize our corpora The schedules are herewith returned, and it is suggested ·that you tions and regulate them and get them so that they can stand on place same in your files for reference should occasion arise in the future. Very respectfully, their feet. Do not make them fight for existence until they can FRANK PIERCE, organize. We do no wish any organization under federal au Acting Secretary. thority. We conduct honest corporations, and insist on being F.W.C. permitted to do so. Mr. DOUGLAS. Will the gentleman yield? :Mr. MANN. The gentleman's amendment proposes to take off The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has expired. the restrictions for twelve months. Mr. MANN. .Mr. Chairman, I move that all debate on the The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered section and all amendments thereto close in ten minutes. by . the gentleman from Georgia. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the motion of the The question was taken, and the amendn1ent w.as rejected. gentleman from Illinois that all debate on the section and l\Ir. WICKERSHAM. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amendments do close in ten minutes. ' amendment. The motion was agreed to. --~ ~ . - 5912 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAY 6, Mr. SULZER. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that and regulated by the Interstate Commerce Commission; and if we the time of the gentleman from Alaska may be extended five repeal the. provision now in the law to authorize the Secretary minutes more. of the Interior to fix tlie rates in Alaska in the first instance There was no objection. the railroads there can make their rates as they please, and Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. Chairman, what I was going to ask the only way you can correct that is for some one to come from the gentleman from Alaska is this: When did he discover this Alaska to Washington and appear before the Interstate Com difliculty with reference to the regulation of railroads in merce Commission. The purpose of the amendment is to give Alaska? these little lines in Alaska authority to charge, not 15 cents 1\fr. HAMILTON. Oh, it has been known right along. per mile, but $1 a mile if they choose to do so ; not to charge Mr. WICKERSHAM. I have known it for some time. reasonable rates which have been fixed by the commission for Mr. DOUGLAS. Has the gentleman introduced any bill here the carriage of freight, but to charge whatever they can squeeze to have it corrected, and have it go to a committee, so that the out of the people without any control. House could be advised something about it other than what the If they file a rate at the beginning of a season, when you can gentleman states on the floor? not carry on :transportation in the ordinary way by wagon, they Mr. WICKERSHAM. Oh, I have talked to the gentleman can put their rates where they please. In the meanwhile from Illinois [Mr. MANN] and other Members of the House somebody has filed a petition in the Interstate Commerce Com about this matter. mission, but they are collecting the rate a long way from here. . Mr. DOUGLAS. ,Why did not the gentleman introduce a bill They are co:r;itrolled now, in the first instance, by the Secretary for the purpose? of the Interior; and on appeal from him, on complaint before Mr. WICKERSHAM. Because I have been advised that the the Interstate Commerce Commission, they are controlled by proper way to reach the desired result was by an amendment the Interstate Commerce Commission. We have covered all to this bill. I thmk that in this bill and at this time is the that the gentleman purports to ask for, and we have not taken proper place to repeal that law. I greatly fear that if it is not away the double control over the roads in Alaska which is ab repealed the interstate-commerce laws will not apply effectively solutely essential to preserve proper rates there. to Alaska, so far as rates are concerned. I hold in my hand a 1\fr. WICKERSHAM. May I ask the gentleman if he knows brief prepared by the Copper River and Northwestern Railway of any instance where the Secretary of the Interior has ever in a case coming down from Alaska and now pending before fixed rates for railroads in A.la ska? the Interstate Commerce Commission, where this question is Mr. MANN. I do not know anything on the subject. brought into issue, and it is the opinion of that company's 1\Ir. WICKERSHAM. They have never been fixed either by attorneys that this clause in the act of 1898 is in force, and the Secretary or the commission. that the Secretary of the Interior has jurisdiction to fix rates, Mr,. MANN. Oh, we have already given power to the Inter notwithstanding his opinion, and that it has never been repealed state Commerce Commission without having been requested by by implication or otherwise. the gentleman from Alaska. I call attention now to the fact that there is no repealing . Ur. WIOKERSH.Al\I. But you have not repealed this clause clause in the bill now before the House. This provision in the m the act of 1898. act of 1898 has never been repealed; and I say to the committee Mr. MANN. We do not need to repeal the law. now that unless this clause is repealed there is no jurisdiction . ~~r .. ~IOKERSH.AM. Without you do, there is a divided in the Interstate Commerce Commission over railroad rates in Jurisdiction. the Territory of Alaska. Mr. ~· We do give the jurisdiction; certainly we do· The jurisdiction is entirely with the Secretary of the Interior, and the cham:n:an of the commission himself stated in the tes: and it ought to be taken away and transferred to the Inter timony, which the gentleman has, that by this provision we give state 'Commerce Commission. I call the attention of the com to the ~ntersta.te Commerce Commission the same jurisdiction mittee to the testimony of Mr. Steel, the attorney for the Alaska ov~r ~a11roads m Alaska as we do over railroads in New York, syndicate, before the Senate Committee on Territories, in which Illinois, or any other State in the Union. 'l'he CH.AIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered this very question a1·ose. He said, on page 143 of the hearings: by the gentleman from Alaska. No, sir; the interstate-commerce law. does apply to Alaska, but that ·the jurisdiction over rates, schedules, and tariffs is vested in the Secre The question was taken, and the Ohair announced the noes tary of the Interior, or in the Interior Department, and not in the Inter seemed to have it. · state Commerce Commission. On a division (demanded by Mr. WICKERSHAM) there were- This clause ought to be repealed, so as to make the law cer ayes 39, noes 68. tain and without any doubt. One. of our Alaska railroads ex Mr. WICKERSHAM. Tellers, Mr. Chairman. tends from Skagway through Alaskan territory into British Tellers were ordered. Columbia, and thence into Yukon territory, and connects at that The committee again divided; and the tellers (Mr. MANN end with the Canadian river lines of transportation and at the and Mr. .WIC:KEBSHAM) reported that there were-ayes 49, Skagway end with the steamship lines to Seattle, thus being a noes 59. part of an internaponal and through line of railroad. We have So amendment was rejected. . nearly 400 miles of railroad in Alaska. Two of the lines have The Clerk resumed and concluded the reading of the bill through rntes and connections with steamship lines, - but no Mr. MANN. Mr.. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that rates have ever been fixed 1n Alaska, either by the Secretary of the Clerk be authorized to number the sections consecutively. the Interior or the commission. Our ~trade amounts to $60,000,000 The OH.AIRMAN. He ha~ that authority under the rule. a year over these lines of transportation, and the rates and :Mr. A.DAMSON. Mr. Ohal.I'man., I move to strike out the last tariff sheets of those roads are so high that if presented to the word in order to give notice that in view of the certain disso- committee they would surprise you. We want the interstate . lution of this committee and the triumph of the bill in a few commerce laws extended and the commission to come into con minutes I think it is fair to the members of the committee and trol of the railroad rates in Alaska. [Applause.] the House that I should state that I shall try to make a motion Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, in the bill which "I introduced into to recommit the bill and ~trike out the commerce-court clause. the House, and a part of which is incorporated as section 6 a Mr. MANN. Mr. Chal.I'man, I think we may come to some of this bill, there was language used which would cover Alaska agreement for the convenience of Members in regard to time· and put it under the control of the Interstate Commerce Com for taking a vo in the House. Will it be satisfactory to mission in the same way as other parts of the United States are everybody to take a vote on Tuesday? controlled. Now, the amendment of the gentleman from Alaska, Mr. CLARK of Missouri. A.t what time on Tuesday? purporting to be in favor of restricting rates in Alaska, is, in Mr. MANN. Following the reading of the Journal. effect, to throw off any control over rates in Alaska. The Mr. CLARK of Missouri. That is all right, just so that we amendment which was incorporated in the bill by the committee have a definite understa.nding. It is hard for people to get here. was not incorporated at the request of the gentleman from Mr. MANN. That will be the understanding, so far as I am .Alaska. He never appeared before the committee. We put the concerned. provision in the bill authorizing the Interstate Commerce Com Mr. CLARK of Missouri. The understanding is that we will mission to have control over the railroads in Alaska without vote on this bill Tuesday after the reading of the Journal. his complaint and on our own initiative. Mr. MANN. I will say to the g~ntleman, I will not ask for What is the law now? There .are various railroads in Alaska, consideration of the bill to-morrow or Monday, but will call and the Secretary of the Interior has the right in the first in the bill up Tuesday right after the reading of the Journal. stance to fix rates. That is done without anybody's complaint; Mr. CLARK of Missouri. All right. without anybody coming here for anything at all. Under the bill Mr. A.DAMSON~ I did not know whether it was necessary we have now anyone can make complaint before the Interstate to give the notice that I did or not, but-- Commerce Commission and have those rates revised, corrected, Mr. MANN. It was not necessary. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5913 l\Ir. Chairman, I move that the committee do now rise and H. R. 21636. An act to provide for the payment of the claim report the bill to the House with the amendment, with the of the Roman Catholic Church of Zamboanga, in the Philippine recommendation that the amendment be agreed to, and that the Islands ; and bill as amended do pass. H. R. 23422. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Interior The motion was agreed to. to dispose of a fractional tract of land in the Lawton (Okla.) The committee accordingly rose; and Mr. BENNET of New land district at appraised value. York, Chairman of the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that that committee bad had under SENATE BIL.LS REFERRED. consideration the bill H. R. 17536, the railroad bill, and Under clause 2, Rule XXIV, Senate bills of the follow.ing had djrected him to report the same to the House with an titles were taken from the Speaker's table and referred to their amendment, with the recommendation that the amendment be appropriate committees, as indicated below: agreed to, and that the bill as amended do pass. s. 7916. An act authorizing the construction of a bridge across Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the the Columbia River near the mouth of the San Poll River in amendment reported from the Committee of the Whole House the counties of Ferry and Lincoln, Wash.-to the Committ~ on on the state of the Union be printed, to show the amendments Interstate and Foreign Commerce. which were agreed to in the committee to the amendment re S. 5607. An act to increase the limit of cost of the public ported by the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. building at Huron, S. Dak.-to the Committee on Public Build The SPEAKER. Is there objection? ings and Grounds. There was no objection. S. 4500. An act to authorize the extension of the public build ing in the city of Concord, N. H., and for other purposes-to the ENROLLED BILLS SIGNED. Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. M1:. W'fLSON of Illinois, from the Committee on Enrolled WITHDRAWAL OF PA.PERS. Bills, reported that they bad examined and found truly enrolled bills of the following titles; when the Speaker signed the same: l\Ir. CHAPMAN, by unanimous consent, was granted leave to withdraw f~om the files of the House, without leaving copies, H. R. 6935. An act for the relief of the Merchants' National the papers m the case of R. J. Jamison, Fifty-ninth Congress Bank of Poughkeepsie, N. Y.; no adverse report having been made thereon. ' H. R. 16367. An act to repeal section 860 of the ~evised Stat utes; LEAVE OF ABSENCE. H. R.16684. An act for the relief of James Ovens; l\fr. SPARKMAN, by unanimous consent, was granted lea""Ve of H. R.18249. An act for the relief of the estate of John H. absence indefinitely on account of illness in family. Fitzhugh, deceased; H. R. 18848. An act for the relief of Joseph S. Oakley ; ADJOURNMENT. H. R.19038. An act to authorize the opening of a road along Mr. MANN. l\Ir. .Speaker, I move that the House do now the Anacostia River in the District of Columbia; adjourn. H. R. 20306. An act to perfect the title to certain land to the • '1.'he motion was agreed to. heirs of Henry Hyer and bis wife, Julia Hyer, deceased, and Accordingly (at 6 o'clock and 27 minutes p. m.) the House for other purposes; adjourned. H. R. 20658. An act for the relief of James O'Brien; H. R. 21636. An act to provide .for the payment of the claim EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC. of the Roman Catholic Church of Zamboanga, in the Philippine Islands; Under clause 2 of Rule XXIV, executive communications were H. R. 23012. An act providing for the raising of the U. S. taken from the Speaker's table and referred as follows: battle ship Maine, in Habana Harbor, and to provide for the 1. A letter from the Secretary of War, transmitting a reply interment of the bodies therein; to the inquiry of the House as to sale of friar lands in the Phil H. R. 23422. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Interior ippines (H. Doc. No. 894, pt.-2)-to the Committee on Insula:c to dispose of a fractional tract of land in the Lawton (Okla.) Affairs and ordered to be printed. land district at appraised value; and 2. A letter from the Acting Secretary of the Treasury trans H. R. 23764. An act granting pensions and increase of pensions mitting a copy of a letter from the Secretary of War sub~itting to certain soldiers and sailors of the civil lVar and certain wid an estimate of appropriation for settlement of claims for dam ows and dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailors. ages due to gun firing at forts and to field maneuvers (H. Doc. The SPEAKER announced his signature to enrolled bill of No. 897)-to the Committee on Claims and ordered to be printed. the following title: 3. A letter from the Secretary of the Interior transmitting a S. 2180. An act to amend sections 1, 2, and 3 of chapter 3298 reply to the inquiry of the House as to patents ~nd scrip issued Thirty-fourth United States Statutes at Large, with referenc~ to Mississippi Choctaws (H. Doc. No. 898)-to the Committee to the drainage of certain Indian lands in Richardson County, on Indian Affairs and ordered to be printed. Nebr. . ENROLLED BILLS PRESENTED TO THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS A.PPBOV AL. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS AND Mr. WILSON of Illinois, from the Committee on Enrolled RESOLUTIONS. Bills, reported that this day they had presented to the President Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, bills and resolutions were sev of the United States for his approval the following bills: erally reported from committees, delivered to the Clerk and H. R. 65-t2. An act for the relief of Theodore F. Colgrove· referred to the several calendars therein named as follo~s : H. R. 9197. An act for the reli~f of Reed B. Granger; ' Mr. STAFFORD, from the Committee on Interstate and For H. R. 18848. An act for the rehef of Joseph S. Oakley · eign Commerce, to which was referred the joint resolution of H. R. 20658. An act for the relief of James O'Brien· ' the. House (H. J. Res. 195) authorizing the construction and H. R.16684. An act for the relief of James Ovens· ' mamtenance of wharves, piers, and other structures in Lake H. R. 6935. An act for the relief of the Merchant~' National Michigan adjoining certain lands in Lake County, Ind., reported Bank of Poughkeepsie, N. Y.; the same with amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 1274) H. R.18249. An act for the relief of the .estate of John H which said joint resolution. and report were referred to th~ Fitzhugh, deceased ; · Committee of the Whole House on the state of the Union. H. R. 4830. An act establishing reguJar terms of the United 1\ir. MONDELL, from the Committee on the Public Lands to . States circuit and district courts of the northern district of which was referred the bill of the House (H. R. 22385) author California at Sacramento, Cal., and of the southern district of izing the reconveyance to the United States of land occupied California at San Diego, Cal.; or needed in carrying out the provisions of the act of June 17 1902, ~d the selection of lands in lieu thereof, reported th~ H. R. 23012. An act providing for the raising of the U 0 s same with amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 1275) battle sl;Lip Maine, in Habana Harbor, and to provide for th~ which said bill and report were referred to the Committee of interment of the bodies therein; the Whole House on the state of the Union. H. R. 20306. An act to perfect the title to certain land to the He also, from the same committee, to which was referred the heirs of Henry Hyer and his wife, Julia Hyer, deceased, and bill of the House (H. R. 25235) to provide for the sale of lands other persons ; · acquired under the provisions of the reclamation act and which H. R.19038. An act to authorize the opening of a road along are not needed for the purposes of that act reported the same the Anacostia River in the District of Columbia· with amendment, accompanied by a report' (No. 1276) which H. R.16367. An act to repeal section 860 ~f the Revised said bill and report were referred to the Committee of th~ Whole Statutes; House on the state of the Union, 5914 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-·HOUSE. MAY 6, Mr. MANN, from the Committee on Interstate and Forefgn By ?..fr. MOON of Tennessee: A bill (H. R. 25505) to appro Commerce, to which was referred the bill of the: Senate priate $3,000 to construct a road on Lookout Mountain, Tennes ( S. 7763) to authorize the Pensacola and Southwestern Rail , see, i1I Chickamauga and Chattanooga: National Military Park road Company, a corporation existlng under the laws of the to the Committee on Appropriations. State of Alabama, to construct a bridge over and across Per By Mr. FOSS of Illinois: A bill (H. R. 25506) to create a dido Bay from Cummings Point, Escambia. County, Fla., to national arbitration tribunal and to define the duties and powers Lillian, Baldwin County, Ala., reported the same with amend thereof-to the Committee on Labor. ment, accompanied by a report (No. 1277), which said bill and By Mr. BRANTLEY: A bill (H. .11, 125551) to increase the report were r~ferred to the House Calendar limit of cost for the acquisition of a site and the erection of a Mr. HILL, from the Committee on Expenditures in the Treas public building at Dublin, Ga.-to the Committee on Publtc ury Department, to which. was referred the Rouse resolu Buildings and Grounds. tion 582, reported in lieu thereof a bill ( K R. 25503) to pro By Mr. MARTIN of Colorado: Resolution (H. ReS'. 682) of vide punishment for the falsification of' accounts and the mak inquiry to the Secretary of War-to the Committee on Insufo.r ing of false reports by persons in the employ of the- United Affairs. States, accompanied by a report (No. 1281), which said bill By Ur. CALDERHEAD: Resolution (H. Re~. 683) authoriz and report were referred to the House Calendar. ing the- Clerk of the House of Representatives to pay to the . l\fr. FERRIS', from the Committee on :the Public Lands, to wiciow of William Irving certain sums of money-to the Com which was referred the bill of the House (B. R. 21939) to au mittee on Accounts. thorize the Lawton and Fort Sill Electric Railway Company to By Mr. MARTIN of Colorado: Resolution (H. Res. 684) of construct and operate a railway through the public lands of inquiry to the Secretary of War-to the Committee on Insular township 2 north, range 11 west, Indian meridian, Comanche Affairs. . County, Okla., and for other- purposes, reported the same with By Mr. SULZER: Joint resolution (IL J. Res. 212) concern amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 1283), which said ing the merchant marine-to the Committee on the Merchant bill and report were referred to the Committee of the Whole Marine and Fisheries. House on the state of the Union~ PRIVATE BILLS-A.L'ID RESOLUTIONS. REPORTS OF COMMtTTEES ON PD.IVATE BILLS AND Under cla~se 1 of Rule XXII, private bills and resolutions RESOLUTIONS. of the following titles were introduced and severally refen:ed Under clan e 2 of Rnie XITI, private bills and resolutions as follows:. were severally reported from committees, delivered to the Clerk, By Mr. .ADAIR: A bill (H. R. 25507) granting an increase and referred to the Committee of the Whole House, as follows: of pension to .lames H. B. McNees-to the Committee on Invalid Mr. KITCIDN, from the Committee on Claims, to which was Pensions. referred the bill of the House (H. R. 17373) for the relief of .Also, a bill (H. R. 25508) granting an increase of pension. to the estate of John V. Schermer, reported the same with amend Jacob W. Perkins-to the Committee on Invalid Pensiong. By Mr. BARNHART : A bill ( H. R. 25509) granting an in ment, accompanied by a report (No. 1279), which said bill and crease of pension to S. P. Fryberger-to the Committee on In report were referred to the Private Calendar. valid Pensions. Mr. McCREARY, from the Committee on Banking and Cur By l\fr_ BELL of Georgia: A bill (H. R.- 25510) granting a R.14610) rency, to which was referred the bill of the House (H. pension to James N. Parker-to the Committee on Pensions. to reimburse depositors in the FreedmanJs- Savings and Trust By Mr. BENNET of New York: A bill (H. R. 25511) granting Company, reported the same with amendment, accompanied by a pension to Hester .Mlller~to the Committee on Invalid Pen a report (No. 1282)~ which said. bill and report were referred to sions. the.Private Calendar. Also, a bill (H. R. 25512) granting a pension t<> Shirley El. Spence-to the Committee on Pensions. ADVERSE REPORT. By Ur. BROWNLOW: A bill (H. R~ 25513) granting an in- Under clause 2 of Rule XITI, crease of pension to Asa Layman-to the Committee on Invalid Mr. SHACKLEFORD, from the Committee on CiaimS', to Pensions. which was refefred the bill of the House (H. R. 5546) for the By Mr. OAN_TRILL: A bill (H. :i:i: 25514) grantin~ an in relief of l\farion B. Patterson, re-ported the same adversely, crea_s~ of Pe?fil~n to James P. Bard.in-to the Committee on accompanied by a report (No. 1278}, which said bill and report . Invalid Pensions. r • • ~ • • • were laid on the table. By M.r. CRA~S. A ~ill (H. R. 2v515) .grantmg an mcrease of pension to Hiram Snnth-to the Committee on Invalid Pen sions. CHANGE OF REFERE...~CE. By ~fr. DENVER: A, bill (B'. R. 25516) granting an increase Under clause 2 of Rule XXII, committees were discharged of pension to William Barrow-to the Committee on Invalid from the consideration of the following bills, which were re Pensions. f erred as follows : By Mr. ELLIS: A bill (H. n. 25517) granting an increase of A bill (H. R. 15547) granting a pension to Christina B. pension to James H. Jones-to the Committee on Invalid Pen Offer-Committee on I1rrnlid Pensions discharged, and referred sions. to the Committee on Pensions. By Mr-. GRAFF: A bill (H. R. 25518) granting an incre:tse A bill (R. R. 25375) granting a pensfon to Joseph Cbarls of pension to George W. Wilson-to the Committee on Invalid ton-Committee- on Invalid Pensions discharged, and referred to Pensions. · the Committee on Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 25519) granting an increase of pension to A. bill (H. R. 25401) for the relief of Benjamin F. Glore D. D. Bailey-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Committee on Invalid Pensions diScharged, and referred to the Also, a bill (H. R. 25520) making an appropriation to execute Committee on Military Affairs. the findings of the Court of Claims in the case of John O'Neill to the Committee on Claims. By Mr. HAUGEN (by request): A bill (H. R. 25521) for PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUTIO~S,. AND ME...'\IORIALS. the relief of Maj. Daniel Robinson,U. S. Army, retired-to the Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, bills, resolutions, and memo Committee on War Claims. rials of the following titles were introduced and severally re By Mr. HAY: A bill (H. R. 25522) granting a pension to ferred as follows: Harris Dreebin-to the Committee on· Pensions. Ily Mr. NICHOLLS: A bill (H. R. 25501) to provide for the By Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey: A bill (H. R. 25523) grant health and comfort of employees living in. construction camps ing an increase of pension to Daniel Van Blarcom-to the in the District o:t Columbia and the Territories-to the Com Committee on Invalid Pensions. mittee on Labor. By Mr. HUGHES of West Virginia: A bill (H. R. 25524) By Mr. STEVENS of .Minnesota: A bill (H. R. 25502) to au granting an increase of pension to Lorenzo D. Anderson-to thorize James D. Markham and Chauncey A. Kelsey and others the Committee on Invalid Pensions. to construct a dam across the St. Croix River between Minne By Mr. HULL of Iowa: A bill (H. R. 25525) granting an sota and Wisconsin-to the Committee on Interstate and: For increase of pension to William H. Coed-to the Committee on eign Commerce. Invalid Pensions. B:r -Mr. HAMER: A bill (R. R. 25504) making immediately .Also, a bill (H. R. 25526) granting an increase of pension to available $25,000 of the amount appropriated for continuing the Clark D. Lan.field-to the Committee on Inva1id Pensions. · work of constructing an irrigating system for certain lands on By Mr. JOHNSON of Ohio: A bill (H. R. 25527) granting an the Fort Hall Reservation in Idaho, as provided for in the act increase of pension to Benjamin F. Heskett-to the Committee approved April 4, 1910-to the Committee on Appropriations. on Invalid i;>ensions. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 5915 Also, a bill (H. R. 25528) granting an increase of pension to lined by the President in message of March 28, 1910~to the Clinton Miller-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Committee on Ways and Means. By l\Ir. KELIHER: A bill (H. R. 25529) granting pensions to Also, petition of Second Church of the Covenanters, of Phila- the members of the crew of the revenue cutter Caleb Cushing delphia, Pa., for an amendment to the Constitution in recogni who served ninety days or more in the civil war-to the Com- tion of the Deity in that instrument-to the Committee on the mittee on Invalid Pensions. Judiciary. · By Mr. KENNEDY of Iowa: A bill (H. R. 25530) granting an By Mr. DAVIS: Petition of A. B. Larsen and others, of increase of pension to James H. Anderson-to the Committee Nerstrand, Minn., against parcels-post legislation-to the Com- on Invalid Pensions. mittee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. Also, a bill (H. R. 25531) granting an increase of pension to By Mr. DAWSON: Petition of Local No. 388, International Henry Stewart-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Association of Machinists, of Davenport, Iowa, against inter- By Mr. KOPP: A bill (H. R. 25532) granting a pension to ference by the Federal Government in the matter of San Fran- Tillie Pitts-to the Committee on Pensions. cisco water supply-to the Committee on the Public Lands. By Mr. LEE: A bill (H. R. 25533) granting an increase of Also, petition of Women of the National Society of Women pension to W. A. Moulton-to the Committee on Invalid Pen- of the Civil War, asking for a national charter-to the Qoinmit- sions. tee on the Judiciary. By l\Ir. MADDEN: A bill (H. R. 25534) granting an increase By Mr. ELLIS: Petition of Medford Commercial Club, o:f of pension to Ward B. Sherman-to the Committee on Invalid Medford, Oreg., for an appropriation to build roads and trails Pensions. within the Crater Lake National Park, in Oregon-to the Com By 1\fr. MARTIN of Colorado: A bill (H. R. 25535) granting mittee on the Public Lands. a pension to Thomas Inman-to the Committee on Pensions. Also, petition of Mary L. Clark and 31 others, of Ladies of the By Mr. MOON of Tennessee: A bill (H. R. 25536) granting Maccabees of the World, of Ranier, Oreg., for amendment to an increase of pension to John P. Lively-to the Committee on House bill 21321, relative to rate of postage on fraternal period- Invalid Pensions. icals-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. By Mr. :MORGAN of Oklahoma: A bill (H. R. 25537) to re- By Mr. FULLER: Petition of Dr. T. H. Culhane; of Rockford, move the charge of desertion against William J. Morris-to Ill., in fay-or of Senate bill 6049, for a national department of the Committee on Military Affairs. public health-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Com Also, a bill (H. R. 25538) granting a pension to Hugh Mc- merce. Kane-to the Committee on Pensions. Also, petition _of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, By Mr. A. MITCHELL PALMER: A bill (H. R. 25539) grant- of Mazon, Ill., favoring the passage of the Gillett bill (H. R. ing an increase of pension to George L. Bradford-to the Com- 19797) to promote public health-to the Committee on Inter- mittee on Invalid Pensions. state and Foreign Commerce. . By Mr. RANSDELL of Louisiana: A bill (H. R. 25540) to By Mr. GOULDEN: Petition of Lonn Brothers & Co., of New carry into effect the findings of the Court of Claims in the case York City, against Senate bill 5473, relative to liquor-sale regu of Hiram Baldwin and others-to the Committee on War lation in the District of Columbia-to the Committee on the Claims. District of Columbia. By Mr. SPIGHT: A bill (H. R. 25541) for the relief of By Mr. HAMMOND: Resolution of the Grand Council, Royal Robert St. John, administrator of the estate of James St. John, Arcanum of Minnesota, for establishment of a national health deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. bureau-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. By Mr. SULLOWAY: A bill (H. R. 25542) granting an in- Also, petitioa of Minnesota Audubon Society, favoring Senate crease of pension to Stephen Brock-to the Committee on In- bill 7242, for protection of fur seals in Alaska-to the Com- valid Pensions. mittee on the Territories. By Mr. TAYLOR of Ohio: A bill (H. R. 25543) granting an By Mr. HANNA: Petition of Allied Printing Trades Council increase of pension to William Reid-to the Committee on of Fargo, N. Dak., . against federal control of the water supply ln>alid Pensions. of San Francisco-to the Committee on the Public Lands. Also, a bill (H. R.. 25544) granting an increase of pension to By Mr. .HUGHES of New Jersey: Petition of board of educa- William W~im-to the Committee. on Inv.alid Pensions: . tion, township of Ridgewood, N. J., for appropriation to enlarge Also, a bill (H. R. 25545) granting an. mcrea~e of pension to the usefulness of the· Bureau of Education by employment o~ .Joseph Bay-to the Colllllllttee on Invahd Pensions. I specia. lists on important subjects etc.-to the Committee on Also, a bill (H. R. 25546) granting an increase of pension to Education. · ' Thomas Ca~·penter-to !he Commi~ee on ~nvalid Pensions.- By Mr. LLOYD: Petition of Mark Twain Lodge, No. 537, Also, a bill (H. R:· 2n547) gran~mg an mcrea~e of P~nsion to favoring the eight-hour law-to the Committee on Labor. .Joseph H. :8utcher-to the Coi;nmittee. on Invalid .Pensions. Also, petition of Pomona Grange, Patrons of Husbandry, of Also, a bill (H. R. 25~8) for the r~llef of the heJ.rs of Charles Clark County, l\fo., in favor of the health bureau-to the Com- E. Stump-to the Comrru~te~ ~n Cl~uns. . mittee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. By 1\fr.· WIL~ON of. Illmois · A bill (H: R. 25549) ~anting n Also petition of Hamilton Chapter Daughters of the Ameri- pension to Loms J. Wil on-to the Committee on Pensions. ' . f H ·it llf '. t f · B M KRONl\IILLER. A bill (H R 25550 ) t 0 t th can Revo~ut10n, o am1. on,~ o., agams repeal. o s~ho~ 40 of ..Y r. I : • • . corr~c. e immigration law as provided m the Hayes ummgration bill-to mill~ary record of John Graham-to the Comrruttee on .l\fihtary the Committee on Immigration and Naturalization. Affairs. By Mr. McLAUGHLIN of Michigan: Paper to accompany House bill for the relief of Dora A. Gray-to the Committee on PETITIONS, ETC. Pensions. Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, petitions and papers were laid By l\Ir. MOON of Tennessee: Paper to accompany bill for on the Clerk's desk and referred as follows: relief of John P. Lively-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By 1\fr. A1\1DERSON: Petition of South Dakota Dairymen's Also, papers to accompany a bill to appropriate $3,000 to con and Butter Makers' Association, to defeat the Burleson bill, struct a road on Lookout Mountain, Tennessee, in Chickamauga House bill l 3842, and the Simmons bill, Senate bill 5428-to the and Chattanooga National Park-to the Committee on Appro Committee on Agriculture. priations. Also, petition of the American Newspaper Publishers' Asso By Mr. A. MITCHELL PALMER: Petition of Union of State ciation of New York City, favoring House bill 12314, the Mann Workers, against federal interference in the matter of the bill, promotive of commerce between Canada and the United water supply for the city of San Francisco, etc.-to the Com States-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. mittee on the Public Lands. Also, petition of Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, Amer · By Mr. SMALL: Petition of Martin County Medical Society, ican Federation of Labor, Brotherhood of Railway Trainmen of North Carolina, and Chamber of Commerce of Elizabeth City, Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen, and Broth~ N. C., by E. F. Lamb, president, for a national bureau of erhood of Boiler Makers and Iron-Ship Builders and Helpers health-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. of America, in favor of federal locomotive-boiler inspection-to Also, petition of cit~ens of Martin County, N. C., for estab the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. lishment of a national health bureau-to the Committee on In By Mr. BENNET of New York: Paper to accompany bill for terstate and Foreign Commerce. relief of Hester Miller-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. SPIGHT: Papers to accompany House bill for the Also, paper to accompany bill for relief of Shirley E. Spence relief of Robert St. John, administrator of the estate of James to the Committee on Pensions. St. John-to the Committee on War Claims. By Mr. COOK: Petition of Philadelphia Board of Trade, for Ry Mr. STEPHENS of Texas: Protest of the Saddle and a reasonable appropriation for use ot the Taritf Board as out- Harness Makers' Association of Texas, against the passage ot 5916 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. ~IAY 7, the parcels-post bill-to the Committee on the Post-Office and This language sounds very fa.mll.ia.Jr to me because shortly after Mr. Shriner's return from the penitent.ia.ry be offered to issue a statement. Post-Hoads. giving the same facts almost verbatim as stated in this resolution. ud By .!Ur. SULZER: Petition of South Dakota Dairymen's and in addition thereto he stated that he was obliged to plead guilty for Butter l\Iakers' Association, for Senate bill 5842, governing the ouroose o! shielding others and that immediate pardon was prom ised him by the district attorney, or words to that effect, all of which traffic in oleomargarine-to the Committee on Agriculture. is as false as the other statement. This statement he offered to pub Also, petition of H. E. Wills, A. A. Rae, A. EJ. Holder, and lish in the Globe-Democrat, Republic, Post-Dispatch, Star, and the Thomas Nolan, all of Washington, D. C. favoring the boiler Times, I guess, at least practically all of the paper in the city, but, 1 after an investigation, they refused to publish ie · The reporters con· inspection bill, House bill 22066-to the Committee on Inter nected with the various papers know Mr. Shriner and Mrs. Shriner, state and Foreign Commerce. and know what profound liars both are. (For that reason I expected By l\Ir. SWASEY : Petition of ten citizens of Turner, Me., that S-Olllilthing of this sort would be done, but had no idea that a man of Mr. SHACKLEFORD'S standing and the position he holds would lend praying for the passage of Senate bill 6V31, relating to public' himself to carry out the revenge of a self-confessed felon, and for po roads-to the Committee on Agriculture. litical purposes only.) • • • Also, resolutions of Orono Grange, No. 312, of Orono; Wesser (But facts are not what Mr. SHACKI.EFORD wanted. He would rather of aid Mr. Shriner in his effort to defeat my reappointment.) • • • run ett Grange, No. 346, Cornville; Caribou Grange, of Cari Yours, very truly, ' CHAS. F. G ALLEXKAMP. bou; Auburn Grange, No. 4, of Auburn; Pine Grove Grange, No. 233, of Brewer; and Minot Center Grange, No. 266, of Minot, l\Ir. HILL. l\Ir. Speaker, I make the point of order that Patrons of Husbandry, all in the State of l\Iaine, protesting there can not be a question of privilege on testimony submitted against the repeal of the oleomargarine internal-re-venue ta.x before a committee, authorized by the committee, published by to the Committee on Agriculture. authorization of the committee in the hearings and 'in the pres By l\Ir. TAYLOR of Ohio: Petition of E. S. Tussing and ence of all parties. The question should have been raised at R. D. Belknap and other citizens of Ohio, for an appropriation that time, and not before the House. My recollection in re of $500,000 for extension of work of the Office of Public Roads gard to the matter, Mr. Speaker, is that certain letters were to the Committee on Agriculture. offered by the gentleman from l\Iissouri [Mr. BARTHOLD] and By Mr. VREELAI\TD: Petition of Ladies of the Maccabees of certain testimony by the gentleman from Missouri [M.r. the World, of Chipmonk and Angelica, N. Y., for an amendment SHACKLEFORD] and that it was all authorized by the committee to post-office bill, Horu;e bill 21321-to the Committee on the at the request of the two gentlemen. That is my recollection Post-Office and Post-Roads; in regard to it, and that being the case, it seems to me it might By Mr. WOOD of New Jersey: Petition of citizens of Hunter be wen to decide the point of order now~ as to whether such don County, N. J., favoring Senate bil1 6031, making an appro testimony, being offered by the consent of all parties and priation of $500,000 for extension of the work oi the Office of printed by the committee as a. part of the record, the question Public Roads-to the Committee on Agriculture. of personal priruege could be raised from it on the floor <>f the House. The SPEAKER. The Chair will hear the gentleman from l\.liEsouri on the point of order only. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. l\Ir. SHA.CKLEJ!.~ORD. l\Ir. Speaker, in response to what has been said by the gentleman from Connecticut, I desire to SATURDAY, May 7; 1910. say that this letter, which was read and published in the hear The House met at 12 o'clock noon. ings. of the committee~ charges me with having intr-0duced a The Chaplain, Rev. Henry N. Couden1 D. D., deli•ered the resolution of inquiry to gratify the revenge of a self-confessed following prayer: felon. The particular language to which I refer is marked in Our Father in heaven, our hearts go out in sympathy to the parentheses~ that you may read it: people of England in the loss of their King, a loss shared by the The reporters connected with the various papers know Mr. Shriner civilized world in that he was a wise, conservative, jru;t, e.nd Mrs. Shriner and know what profound liars both are. gracious ruler and a potent influence in preserving peace among For that reason, I expect-- the nations. Grant, 0 most merciful Father, wisdom, strength, Mr. KEIFER. I make the point of order that the gentleman justice, mercy,, righteousness to hls successor, that he may should not discuss the resolution, but the point of order made reign to the good of his people and be ever an influen'!e for by the gentleman from Connecticut. peace among the peoples of the earth. Comfort, we beseech The SPEAKER. The Chair understands the gentleman from Thee, those who mourn their sovereign, especially the family, Connecticut to make the point of order that the matter the gen· the bereaved Queen and children, in the ble sed hope of the tleman refers to was matter that was developed in a hearing Gospel of Jesus Christ. And glory and honor and praise be before the Committee on Expenditures in the Treasury De Thine forever, Amen. partment. The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read and Mr. HILL. And read in the presence of the gentleman. approved. The SPEAKER. And read in the presence of the gentleman, QUESTION OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE. and in pursuance of official duty, under an order, under the Mr. SHACKLEFORD. Mr. Speaker-- rule of. the House, in making an investigation; and as the The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the g.entleman rise? Chair understa.Ilds, the point of order of the gentleman from Mr. SHACKLEFORD. I rise to a question of personal privi- Connecticut is: " Does this present a question of personal . lege, and ask to have this letter read. privilege? ,., The SPEAKER. The gentleman fr<>m Missouri rises to a Mr. SHACKLEFORD. Now, Mr. Speaker, to that I intended qi.ms ti on of pei·~onal privilege. to address my remarks, but the gentleman from Ohio diverted Mr. SHACKLEFORD. Mr. Speaker, I send to the Clerk's me. I wanted first to call attention to. the language to which I desk a letter from the hearings before the Committee on Ex take exception, and I want to show that it comes within the penditures in the Treasury Department, which I ask to have rule, and I hope the gentleman will permit me to proceed. read. The SPEAKER. But it is the point of order that the Chair The SPEAKER. In connection with that question of personal is interested in. privilege, the gentleman desires to have read a letter which he Mr. SHACKLEFORD. I intend now to discuss only the sends to the Clerk's desk. point of order, and nothing else. Mr.. SHACKLEFORD. The personal privilege is based upon a Mr. KEIFER. But the gentleman did not discuss it at all. letter which is printed in the hearings before the Committee on Mr. SHACKLEFORD. The gentleman need not be so uneasy. Expenditures in the Treasury Department. I have sent it to Mr. KElIFER. Ev(?crybody admits that you may have a ques- the Clerk' desk and a sk to have all of it read e_xcept the parts tion of personal privilege if it comes from the riaht source, but that haT"e been erased. the gentleman is proposing to discuss the question to accom The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read. plish the sa.me object. The Clerk read as follows : 1\Ir. SHACKLEFORD. · 1\1r. Speaker, I believe I have the floor. U :N'lTED STATES C USTOYS S ERVICE, The SPEAKER. The gentleman has the floor on the point of 0FF£CE OF THE SURVEYOR, order, and the Chair desires to be enlightened touching it. Port of Bt. Louis. December 18~ 1909. Mr. SHACKLEFORD. I beg the Chair to understand that I llon. RICHARD B ARTHOL DT, M. c., intend to address my remarks entirely to the point of order. Oare of Hoiise of Repres en tatii"es, Wash1ngton, D. 0. I shall undertake to show, first, that this is a reflection upon MY Dru..n. BAllTHOLDT: No doubt you have seen the resolution offered by Mr. SHACK LE FORD requesting an investigawon of this office in eon- me in my official capacity, and, second, I shall undertake to 3unction with the subtreasury. • • • show that, being such an unjust reflection upon me, I am not • • • Mr. SHACKLEFORD charges that clerks in this office were deprived of my question of privilege by reason of the fact that permitted to issue duebills, etc., with my consent. and that the matter was covered up for the time so as not to injure chances for reap it was read in a hearing before the committeee. N~w, upon pointment. these two propositions I wish to be heard.