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Center for Strategic and International Studies Bob Schieffer's Center for Strategic and International Studies Bob Schieffer’s “About the News” with H. Andrew Schwartz Podcast Subject: “NYT’s Glenn Thrush: What’s Going On?” Speakers: Glenn Thrush, White House Correspondent, The New York Times Hosts: H. Andrew Schwartz, Senior Vice President for External Relations, CSIS Bob Schieffer, CBS Political News Contributor; Former Host, “Face the Nation,” CBS News Date: Friday, September 8, 2017 Transcript By Superior Transcriptions LLC www.superiortranscriptions.com (Music plays.) BOB SCHIEFFER: I’m Bob Schieffer. H. ANDREW SCHWARTZ: And I’m Andrew Schwartz. MR. SCHIEFFER: And these are conversations about the news. We’re in the midst of a communications revolution. We have access to more information than any people in history. But are we more informed, or just overwhelmed by so much information we can’t process it? MR. SCHWARTZ: Our podcast is a collaboration of the Bob Schieffer College of Communication at TCU and CSIS in Washington. MR. SCHIEFFER: In this first year of Donald Trump’s presidency, we’re talking to the reporters who are covering the president the closest, the White House press corps. (Music plays.) MR. SCHIEFFER: Today we welcome to the podcast for the second time Glenn Thrush, the White House correspondent for The New York Times. And most recently he is a new MSNBC contributor. Previously Glenn worked for Newsday and Bloomberg, and he covered the 2016 presidential election as the chief political correspondent at Politico. We last spoke to you, Glenn, back in April, so I guess we have a little catching up to do. Anything happen over at the White House since then? GLENN THRUSH: (Laughs.) I was a younger man then, Bob. (Laughs.) And I – and I had this expectation that we were going to do this thing called resting on the weekend and not checking our iPhones every 15 seconds for presidential tweets. But, alas, my expectations and dreams have been shattered. It isn’t the first time, and it won’t be the last. MR. SCHIEFFER: (Laughs.) Let me ask you something. How do you talk to Trump? I mean, does he never text you? Or what kind of communications do you have with him? MR. THRUSH: Well, I don’t want to – I don’t want to seem coy on that stuff, but I – as you know, Mr. Schieffer, tradecraft is tradecraft. (Laughter.) I would say we have probably less interaction – direct interaction with him than we did previously. I think under John Kelly – John Kelly is cracking down on that. It’s funny, because I’ve seen a lot of – there’s been a lot of Twitter traffic, presupposing that Maggie Haberman – my close collaborator and best friend – and I have all this backdoor contact with Trump. I think people would be surprised to know, generally speaking, how little direct contact we have with him. That’s not to say we don’t talk to a lot of people around him. MR. SCHIEFFER: That takes me right into the next question. So, in fact, General Kelly has rearranged things at the White House? MR. THRUSH: Yeah, this has been, I think, a more significant and stabilizing circumstance than I would have initially anticipated. I think the first rash of stories that I wrote and other people wrote were quite skeptical about his capacity to change things internally. But it turns out that when you get somebody who understands how to run a large organization and create, hello, a memo articulating chains of command, duh, that that has a – that has a tremendous impact on things. And I think the thing that we didn’t realize is Trump is in such extremis – he’s at 30 – between – I think we have a new Wall Street Journal/NBC poll out yesterday that has him at 36 percent, which is a low. At the very most, we see him at 41 and 42 percent. That seems to be his ceiling. There are members of his administration who are on the verge of abandoning him because of het Charlottesville stuff. This is a guy I think, more than anything else, is attuned to his sense – he has an acute sense of self-preservation. And I think the reason why Kelly has been empowered – albeit temporarily – is because Trump realizes that without these changes he’s a dead man. MR. SCHIEFFER: What do you mean, temporarily on Kelly? MR. THRUSH: Well, you know, it’s funny. Over the last week, I’ve spoken to probably a dozen administration officials. And I canvassed each one of them and asked them: How long will Kelly ask? And the answers come the range from October to March. I didn’t have anybody who thought he’d be there – I had one person who suggested he’d be there for the long term. And then I went through the White House Press Office and I said: Give me a sense as to why you think he’s going to stay a long time? What’s he doing? And they said, well, he’s engaged in medium-term planning. He’s working on the Asia trip in November and he’s thinking about early 2018 legislative stuff that would move beyond that. So I think John Kelly is somebody who the president has out of necessity. He is annoying the president by sort of clamping down on various things. But we’re also told the president is happy to have some structure. The question – and, again, Maggie and I wrote about this I think last Friday in a pretty lengthy discussion of that relationship. I think the question really is not whether or not Trump gets tired of Kelly, but when does Kelly get tired of Trump. This is the first grownup relationship that the president has had with an aide in the White House, where the aide needs – where Trump needs Kelly or Trump needs the aide more than the aide needs Trump. MR. SCHIEFFER: So this is not the relationship that Reince Priebus had with the president. MR. THRUSH: No. (Laughs.) I refer – look, I took a lot of crap a couple of months ago for referring to Priebus as the stalking butler of the Trump administration. (Laughter.) But I think it is no – and this is screwing me up in terms of cultivating – you know, you guys know this. The best reporting you can do with anyone is you catch someone fresh right out of the White House and they are mad and they want to tell you everything, right? Well, this is going to screw me with Priebus, but he’s the weakest chief of staff in the history of that position, by a long shot. He had no fundamental understanding of it. He had no interest or capacity in terms of policy, nor did he have the intellectual curiosity to develop it while he was chief of staff. Moreover, he put himself in positions that established him as a subordinate in this White House, which is very much a testosterone-fueled place. He did things – you know, I’ll give you an anecdote, I don’t think we’ve really written about it. He was so obsessed with the notion that Steve Bannon, who was talking to reporting behind Reince’s back, that he would check what is known as the WAVES system, the computer system that logs people coming in and out of the building. And he would crash – crash – meetings between reporters and Bannon. So can you imagine this? And what we’re – I covered Rahm Emanuel. I covered, towards the end, Josh Bolten. Real chiefs of staff. And, you know, there’s a – they’re a mixed bunch. Mack McLarty, as you know, Clinton’s first chief of staff, was a – was a weak person. Bill Daley, who I like very much personally, turned out not to be a great chief of staff for Obama. But the notion of a chief of staff kind of, you know, being like your mom coming down the basement to see if you’re smoking pot, you know, is a pretty humbling thing. And Kelly, I think, has enough of a sense of himself as a Marine, and a sense of duty that’s independent of Trump. The other thing that makes Kelly really interesting is doesn’t have to do this for the money. He can make money in the corporate sector. Is not doing this necessarily for the glory, I’m sure he’s got ego. And isn’t doing this personally out of loyalty for Trump. My sense is he’s taking one for the team. And I think, in general, there is, at the moment, a sense of gratitude in the White House that he’s willing to do this. MR. SCHIEFFER: So, was it Kelly that got rid of Bannon? MR. THRUSH: Mmm, absolutely. Oh, yeah. No, and it was a cascade, really. So the way we can – you know, there has been a sort of a velvet coup – military coup – (laughs) – facilitated by Donald Trump and effectuated by sort of the three generals. Jim Mattis over at the Pentagon – who, by the way, if you can tell me if anyone has really detailed profile of him since he’s been defense secretary, I’d like to see it. Because that is a guy who keeps that operation locked down. And Mattis is extremely influential with the president. You don’t see him popping up in a lot of stories that I write, or other people who do sort of the inside story reporting.
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