--
2510 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. MARCH 27,
IN SENATE. adverse report thereon; which was ordered to be printed, and t he committee was discharged from the further consideration of the peti FRIDAY, JJiarch 27, 1874. tion. ' He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the pet ition Prayer by the Chaplain~ Rev. BYRON Smn)ERLA}i'D, D. D. of John Carter, late private Company H , Fifth United States Infantry, The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was read and approved. praying for an increase of pension, of 20 per cent., submitted an au EXECUTIVE CO)Il\fUl\""ICATION . verse report thereon; which was ordered to be printed, and the com The PRESIDJ<~NT p1·o ternpo-re laid before the Senate a letter _of the mittee was discharged from the further consideration of the petition. Commissioner of Agriculture, a king t.hat Congress may authorlZe the Mr. BOGY, from the Committee on Inilian Affairs, to whom was printing of twenty-five thousand copies of the Annual Report of tlw refened the bill (S. No. 205) to auth,orize the Secretary of the Interior Department of Agriculture for that Department; which was referred to discharge certain obligations of the United States to the creditors to the Committee on Printing. · of the Upper and Lower bands of Sioux Indians, reported it without amendment. PETITIO S AND ·:r.mMORIALS. He also, from the Committee on PrivateLandClaims, to whom was The PRESIDENT p?'O tempore presented a petition of citizens of referreu the bill (S. No. 372) to provide for ascertaining and settling ·we t Virginia, soldiers in the late war, praying the enactment of a private land clainls in certain States and Territories, reported ad law grantincr $100 bounty to all soldiers, sailors, and marines who en versely t.hereon, and the bill was postponed indefinitely. teret'l the se~vice prior to September 23, 1863; which was referred to Mr. PRATT, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was re the Committee on Military Affairs. ferred the petition of Nancy Flesher, of 'Vest Virginia, praying to be Ho also presented ·a !otter of the Secretary of 'Var, transmittillg a allowed 1t pension ·on account of the services of her son, James Flesher, petition of officers of the Sixth Infantry, asking that troops serving as a carrier of dispatches, and as a scout during the late war, sub on the frontier be placed on a better footing with regard to leaves of mitted an adverse report thereon; which was ordered to be printecl, absence; which was referred to the Committee on Military Affairs. and the committee was discharged from the further consideration of He also pre ented resolutions adopted at a rna meeting of the the petition. citizens of Portland, Ore1;on, in favor of aid by Congress to the Port He also, from the same committee, to whom was refeiTed the peti land, Dalles and Salt La.Ke Railroad, for which a bill _is now pending tion of Henry Cook, of Wisconsin, prayinO' to b~ a.llowed a pension, before Congress; which were referred to the Committee on Rail submitted an adverse report thereon; which was ordered to be printed, l'oads. and the committee was discharged from the further consideration of He also presented a joint resolution of the Legislature of Wiscon the petition. sin requestino- Congress at its present session to auopt such mea ures He also, from the same committee, to whom was referred the bill as ~hall secur~ the speedy construction of a ship-canal around Niagara (H. R. No. 2094-t) granting an increase of pension to Mary C. Bell, sub Falls; which was refened to the Committee on Commerce. mitted an adverse report thereon; which was ordered to be printed, Mr. CHANDLER presented a petition of citizens of Michigan, late and the bill was postponed indefinitely. members of the Fifth Regiment of Michigan Cavalry Volunteers in Mr. OGLESBY, from the Committee on Public Lands, to whom was the late rebellion, praying payment of balances claimed to be due referred the bill (S. No.5 1) amendatory of and supplementary to them for services rendereu as second lieutenants; which was refened the act entitled "An act to set apart a certain tract of land lyinff to the Committee on Military Affairs. near the head-waters of the Yellowstone River as a public park,' Mr. SARGENT. ·1 prese-nt to the Senate a petition of citizens of approved March 1, 1872, reported it with amendments:- Round Valley, California, which states at considerable l~n~th the He also, from the Committee on Pensions, to whom was 1·eferred circumstances under which settlements were made by them m that the petition of l\Irs. SusanMcGoulrick,praying fora pen ion, reported valley, and also recites the legislation of the 3d of March, 1873, by adversely thereon ; and the committee was discha.rged from the further which Congress provided for the sale at $1.25 an acre, to the actual consideration of the petition. occupants or settlers, of the surplus lands not needed for the purposes He also, from the same committee, to whom wa.s referred the peti of an Indian reservation. They state, what I believe to be the fact, tion of Jules L. Williams, late a second lieutenant in the Forty-sec l-h at a bill is now pending in Congress to chang~ the price which they ond Regiment United States Colored Troops, praying for an invalid were reqnire BILLS INTRODUCED. The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the 1\Ir. WRIGHT asked, and by unanimous consent ohtained, leave to W~o~e, pr?c ee~l~~ to ~onsider the bill (H. R. No. 2547)to removeftom introduce a bill (S. No. 635) authorizing :M.P. Turner and his associ politiCal disabihttes 1homas Hardeman, jr., of Georo·ia. ates and assigns to prospect for and mine coal and other mineral in The bill was reported to the Senate without ame~dment ordered and under the beds of the Des Moines and Coon Rivers, in Polk to a third readin~, and read the third time. ' · County, Iowa; which was read twice by its title, referred to the Com :Mr. FRELING H UYS~N. That bi U an~ a;nother like it were reported mittee on :Mines and Mining, and ordered to be printed. a(lversely by the Comrmttee on the Jud1c1ary. I know of no special Mr. GORDON asked, aml by unanimous consent obtained, leave to reason why the disability of these individuals should not be removetl · introduce a bill (S. No. 636) to authorize the settlement between the but I am not aware sin~e t~e- general-amnesty bill was passed that Western and Atlantic Railroad, of Georgia, and the United States, Congress has removed dtsab1ht1es from any of that clat~s who were npon the same basis that a settlement was made between certain rail excepted from that general-amnesty bill, to wit, officers of the United roads in the State of Tennessee and the United States; which was States Army who went over to t~e adverse party, members of Con read twice by its title, referred to the Committee on Military Affairs, gress,, &c.; a.nd unless Congress IS prepared to adopt the policy of and ordered to· be printed. ~ranti!lg amn~sty to that class, thHse bills ought not to pass. But it SAINT LOUIS BRIDGE. IS a fair quest10n for the Senate to consider. The reasons that moved the Senate when that general-amnesty bill was passed in excepting Mr. ALLISON submitted the following resolut!on; which was con this class still exist. sidered by unanimous consent, and agreed to: I think it is right to make this statement to the Senate that they Resolved, That the Secretary of War is hereby directed to furnish the Senate m~y see the imp_ort:mce .of this measure as a precedent: I do not with acopy·of tile r eport of the board of United States engineers who made ex amination of-the bridge over the .Mississippi River at Saint Louis, Missouri. th1~ tha~ there 1s a.nythrng peculiar in the case of these individuals whiCh does not apply to all of the class who were excepted from the DELINQUE 'CIES OF GOVEP.1\"'MENT OFFICERS. general-amnesty bill. - Mr. DAVIS. I offer the following resolution, which I ask to have -~~. STEVENSON. Mr. President, I hope this bill will pass. Ad printed and laid on the table : · n;nttmg all that t.he Senator from New Jersey has said, Congress has, Resolved, That the Secretary of tho Treasury be, and he is hereby, requestml to sl!lce the pas age of the general-amnesty bill, granted relief by special furnish the Senate a, statement in detail showing the amounts due and yet unpaid bills a number of officers of the Army and Navy who resigned and to the Government from January, 1865, to the present time from paymasters, quar t? termasters, commissa,ries, collectors of internal revenue, collectors of customs, went mto the confederate arm.v. That was rirrht and proper. Why officers of the Freedmen's Bureau, or any other o!Ticer or set of officers whose then, object to the pending bill '¥ My opinio~ is that the cardinai accounts aro under hiR SU{lerdsion; th:1t he further inform the Senate how such of rnle of all free government ought to be justice. That should be one the delinquencies as have \Jeen arranged have been settled, whether by compromise, of the gr:eat objects a~1d ends of all free government. When we find dismissal, ur ot.herwise; and that he further inform the Senate the names of all of said delinquents, and from what States they "ere appointed, antl whether there are any that maJor-generals rn the confederate army have been relieved suit now pending for the reco\ery of such moneys, and, if so, against whom, and by special acts from disabilities, many of whom are now holdino for what amount. office of trust and profit at this time under this Administration why Mr. CONKLING. Does the Senator from West Virginia ask action should tile Senate undertake to refuse to rrrant the same m~asure now upon that resolution f of reli~f to others equally meritorious, and ~ho have been quiet and The PRESIDENT pro tmnpom He asks that it be laid on the table lo:ya~ SIJ?-Ce the close .of the war ; gallant men, who did nothing in and printed. · ongmatmg the rebellion, and who were not half so prominent in it.s .l\Ir. CONKLING. I make no objection to that. prosecution as others who have been relieved and who are now hold The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The resolution lies over. The Sen ing distinguished positions of profit under this Administration? I s ator from \Vest Virginia moves the.resolution be printed. this just Y Is it generous~ I cannot think so. The motion was agreed to. Mr. President, I -repeat that my humble belief is that if we desire to attach the entire people to the tmity of this Government we should THE l\IOR~"'NG HOUR. be just as well as generous. Do not, I beseech you make fish of one Mr. FERRY, of :Michigan. I am directed by the Committee on the and flesh ~f anoth~r. .~e~ our legislation operate equally upon all in Rcvh;ion of the Rules to report the following additional rule : the same c~assof disabilities. There have been quite a number of ex Durin~ the present session of Congress, one hour and one-half, commencin"' at members of the Thirty-fifth and Thirty-sixth Cono-resses relieved since each daily session of the Senate, shall be designated as the morning hour. " -the general-amnesty b~ll was passed. Why, then, exclude Colonel Mr. SHERMAN. I object to the consideration of that for the present. Hru:deman 'I I agree With the President of the United States in his The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The proposed rule will lie over. message that we should welcome ba.ck every confederate by a removal ADJOUTINl\IENT TO MO~'DA.Y. ?f all dis3:b~liti~s. E\'ery day's delay in the pa&3age of such an act On motion of 1\fr. LEWIS, it was ts one of IDJUStiCe to many brave and gallant men. Let us exi.end amnesty to all who are willing and ask this Government to remove Ordered, That when the Senate a~journs to-day, it be to meet on Monday next. their disabilities. Do not discriminate, bnt promptly relieve all and COW A;.'\' AND DICKINSON. make them feel by your legislation that they arc citizens arrain df the The PRESIDENT pro tempore. If there be no further morning busi ~mer~can Republi~, possessing every privilege that any other citizen ness, the Secretary will report the bills on the Calendar in their order. 1s ent1tled to. I smcerely trust that the Senate will pass this bill and The first bill on the Calendar was the bill (S. No. 63) for the relief extend t under a slight mistake, I am .still.in ~avo~· .o! the bill, and I am for and improvements thereon in California, and to provide jurisdiction the Texan particularly. I Wlsh. his d}sab1lihes xemoveu, ~s those of to determine t ho e rights. all other Texans have been, placmg hnn on the same footmg; and I 1\lr. SHERMAN. I ask if that is about the San Jose reservation! think he will be a better man. That is the iuea ; that he will ue If so1 I know it will lead to debate, and t~erefore I object to its present more liberal if he is not kept under this restraint. That is the diffi consideration. culty with us. I hope he will becom~ a ~ood ?itizen, regretting what The PRESIDENT p1·o tentpore. The bill will be laid aside. he has done in the past. I am for reli~vu~g brm and all o~~ers. NATHAN COLE. Mr. WRIGHT. Having reported thiS bill rromthe Judictary Com The next bill on theCalendarwas the bill (S. No. 379)forthe relief mittee adversely, I think it is due to m~self to say one wortl. I baye of Nathan Cole, late captain Twenty-thirdRegimentVeteran Reserve not in my mind at this time any case smce the gen~ral amnesty b1ll Corps; which was consiuered as in Committee of the Whole. It is .a was passed where disabilities have been removed m the clas es of direction to the proper accounting officers of the Treasury to credit cases referred to by the Senator from Kentucky. I do not say that Nathan Cole, late captain and brevet major Twenty-third Regiment there have not been such bills passed. If so, however, I say that they Veteran Reserve Corps, in the settlement of his accounts with the have been passed either because of the peculiar circum~tances of the United States, with the sum of $120.80, collected by him while acting case, or because the attention of the Senate was not directed to the as agent of the Bureau of Refugees, Freeclmen, and .Abandoned Lands, question before it. at Lewisville, .Arkansas, in 1 67, and lost in transmission to the proper Now, we have reported this bill back from the Judiciary~ommit~e receiving and disbursing officer at Little Rock. and have called the attention of the Senate to the question that IS Mr. SCOTT. I do not desire to say anything upon this bill, but as involved. Whether they propose to remove disabilities i? ea?h and I suppo e that anything is in order when a bill is under consideration every case as it may arise, without reference to the pecub~r crrcum before it shall have passed from the Senate, I wish to @ay that the stances or whether it ue better to pass a general am1;1esty bill so as to bill reported by the Senator from West Virginia [Mr. DAVIS] and the include' all, is the question that is. now presented to the Senate; ~nd bill reported by the Senator from Inclian,a [Mr. PRATT] have both gone a majority of the Judiciary Committee, as I stated yesterday mornmg, off the Calendar this morning, and as there are a number of other were of opinion that it was not advisable to recommend the passage bills of a similar character involving questions that will give rise to of thls bill. They submit the question to the Senate. The Senate debate reported from the Committee on Claims, I shall1 soon after understand the circumstances. If they shall be overruled, ~he com we reach the termination of the present ·financial qnest10n, ask the mittee will take it as the sense of the Senate to report such bills badr Senate to fix a day when the bills reported from that committee shall favorably again, unless there shoulc~ be some reason.~hy they should be considered. not be so reported. I believe that IS the exact pos1t10n of the ques- The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered tion. . to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed. 1\lr. THURMAN. As this bill comes from the Judiciary Committee, I wish to say that I was not in the committ.ee at the time ~he agree OFFICERS AND CREW OF WYOMING AND TA KlANG. ment to report upon it adversely was amved at. I am~ fav?r of The next bill on the Calendar was the bill ( S. No. 342) for the relief the bill and have been all the time. But I must say that I mfimtely of the officers and crew of the United States ship Wyoming and Ta prefer the passage of a general amnesty bill. I h~ve said ag::"in an.d Kiang. again that I for one am sic~, I might alm?st s_ay disgnsted, w1th thiS Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. I think that bill had better go over. peddling out of amnesty by piecemeal. I think 1t un~orth~ of the Gov The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Objection bei?g made, the bi~ will ernment and I saw with pleasure the recommendatiOn which has been be laid aside. referred 'to of the Executive, in favor of a ~eneral amnesty bill. But WILLIAM H. DENNISTON. as Congres~ does not seem disposed to pass 1t, or~ pass it speedily, I The next bill on the Calendar was the bill (H. R. No. 12-24) for the shall continue to vote as heretofore for amnesty m all cases that are relief of William H. Denniston, late an acting second lieutenant Sev presented, unless there is some extraordinary reason why I should not entieth New York Volunteers, which was considered a-s in Committee so vote· and no such case has yet come to my knowledge. of the Whole. It directs the Paymaster of the .Army to allow and The question being put, the President p1·o tempore declared that pay toW. H. Denniston, late an acting second lieutena~t o_f Company the bill was passed. D, Seventieth New York Volunteers, out of the appropnatwns for the Mr. GORDON. I move- pay of the .Army, the pay and allowance allowed by law to a second l\11'. CONKLING. I beg to remind the Chair that the pass~ge must lieutenant of infantry, from the 24th of December, 1~tn, to the l?th be bv a two-thirds vote. I do not say there was not a two-thirds vote, of July, 1R62, he having actually served in that capacity and haVIng but I s•tggest to the Chair that the record should show that fact by received no pay therefor. the announcement of the vote. The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered The PRESIDENT pro tentpore. The Chair will put the question to a third reading, read the third time, and passed. arrain. [Putting the question.] It is the opinion of the Chair that ~ore than two-thirds have voted for the bill. The bill bas passed. PRIVATE LAND CLAIMS IN MISSOURI. 1\lr. GORDON. I move now to take up the Senate bill for the relief 1\Ir. BOGY. I ask the Senate now to take up the bill (S. No. 32) of William L. Cabell. obviating the necessity of issuing patents for certain private land The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, a-s in Committee of the claims in the State of Missouri, and for other purposes. It is a local \Vhole, proceeded to consider the bill (S. No. 334) to remove the dis bill and it will take but a few moments to dispose of it. abilities of William L. Cabell, of Texa-s. The PRESIDENT pro ternpm·e. The Senator from Missouri moves The uill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered to to postpone the Calendar and proceed to the consideration of the "!Jill I be eng~·ossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed by a indicated by him. two-thrrds vote. Several SENATORS. Let us go on with the Calendar. CITIZENS OF LOUDOUN COUNTY. The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The Chair will submit the question 1\Ir. BOGY. I should like to appeal to the Senate to take up a bill of to the Senate. The question is on the motion of the Senator from great importance, Senate bill No. 32, obviating the necessity of issuing Missouri. patent for certain private land claims in the State of Missouri, and The motion was not agreed to. for other purposes. PRESIDIO RESERVATION. Mr. BUCKINGHAM. I hop·e that will not be done. The next bill on the Calendar was the bill (S. No. 108) to relinquish The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Connecticut ob the interest of the United States in certain lands to the city and jects. county of San Francisco, in the State of California. Mr. BOGY. I will state, for the information of the Senator from 1\!r . .ALLISON. I object to the consideration of that bill. Connecticut-- • . The PRESIDENT pt·o ternpm·e. Objection is made, and the bill will The PRESIDE:r>."TT 11ro tempore. Debate is out of order. The next be la-id aside. bill on the Calendar will be reported. Mr. SARGENT. I ask the Senator to withdraw his objection until The next bill on the Calendar was the bill (S. No. 48) for the relief an explanation of the bill can be made, which I can make in two of loyal citizens of Loudoun County, Virginia, therein named. minutes, I think. Mr. BORE.M.AN. As the purpose is to expedite business, I ~will st~te Mr. .ALLISON. I withdraw the objection for that purpose. that this is one of that class of cases in regard to property m the In Mr. BOGY. I object. Objection was made to my bill, and let us surrectionary States about which there will probably be controversy. proceed in regular order. I am satisfied it will be objected to before we get through with it. Mr. SARGENT. I trust the Senator will not object because some The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator objecU body else, not myself, objected to some bill of his. ~his bill c~n~es Mr. BOR.E~IAN. I think it bad better go over. up now in re!!'Ular order. I have not made any factious oppos1t10n The PRESIDENT pro tempore. Does the Senator object¥ to any Senato~"s bill. The Senator has a right to object, of course. Mr. BOREM.AN. I think it would be better to pass it over. Ire The PRESIDENT pro tentpore. The Senat,e is proceeding under an ported the bill and am. in favor of it; but I am satisfied-- understanding that -bills objected to shall be laid· aside. Is there 1\fr. MORRILL, of Maine. I object. · objection to the present consideration of the bill 'f The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The bill will be laid asicle. .1\rr. ·wRIGHT. I object. I am satisfied that the bill will give rise LANDS IN CALIFORNIA . to debate. The next bill on the Calendar was the bill (S. No. 423) relating to Mr. SARGENT. I thought I had leave to explain it for two min~ the equitable and legal rights of parties in possession of certain lands utes. If not, I still ask for t.hat privilege. 1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 2513. The PRESIDENT p1·o temp01·e. Another Senator objects. report, recommencls it, and so does the War Department. I have Mr. SARGENT. I a-sk the Senator to withdraw his objection in here the letter written by Mr. Alexander, lieutenant-colonel of engi order that I may expJ ain the bill. neers, to General Humphreys, which states the facts fully, and I will The PRESIDENT p1·o temp01·e. Does the Senator from Iowa with read it. draw his objection' Mr. STEWART. I believe there is not a man in the world who Mr. WRIGHT. 1 shall not withdraw the objection to the consid will look at the map before the Senator who will not vote for the eration of the bill. If the Senate think proper to hear an explanation, bill. I will not object to that. The PRESIDENT p1·o tempo1·e. · The Senator from California is The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The consideration of the bill being entitled to the floor. objected to, the next bill on the Calendar will be reported. Mr. SARGENT. Unquestionably the bill is right. It is reported :Mr. SARGENT. Will it be in order to move to take up this bill in favorably and unanimously, I believe, by the Committee on Military order that I may explain itt Affairs, who make a written report in its favor. I will read the docu- The PRESIDENT pro ternp01·e. It is in order for the Senator to ments. · move to postpone the Calendar and proceed to the consideration of 1\fr. lfORRILL, of Maine. There is no objection. We do not need the bill. to hear more about it. Mr. SARGENT. Then I will do that. Mr. SARGENT. It is suggested there is no furthf3r necessity for The PRESIDENT pro temp. ore. The Senator from California moves explanation. I do not wish to take up the time of the Senate. to postpone the Calendar, and proceed to the consideration ofthe bill The bill was reported to the Senate without amendment, ordered just passed over. to be engrossed for a third reading, read the third time, and passed. The motion was agreed to; and the Senate, as in Committee of the Mr. THURMAN. Now that the Senate has passed the Calendar to Whole, proceeded to consider the bill (S. No. 108) to relinquish the in take up this fifty-acre bill- terest of the United States in certain lands to the city and county of Mr. SARGENT. No; it came up in order on the Calendar. It waa San Francisco, in the State of California. simply objected to, and I asked that it might be considered never- The bill proposes to relinquish and grant all the right and title of the theless. · . United States to the following-described portion of the military reser Mr. THUR}lAN. Then I have nothing to say. vation, known as the Presidio, or Fort P oint reservation, situated in the ASBURY DICKINS. city and county of San Francisco, State of California, to that city and The next bill on the Calendar was the bill (S. No. 171) for the ben- cOlmty, and its successors, for the benefit of persons who, if the lands efit of the legatees of Asbury Dick:ins, deceased. bad not been reserved for public use, would have been entitled thereto Mr. MORRILL , of Vermont. Let the report be read in that case. under the ordinance numbered 800, of the city of San Francisco, 1\Ir. SCOTT. That bill is reported adversely. ratified by the act of the Legislature of the State, approved on -the Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. Let it go over. 27th of :March, 1868, entitled "An act to confirm a certain order passed The PRESIDENT p1·o tempore. The bill will be laid aside. by the board of supervisors of the city of San Francisco," relating to Mr. ANTHONY. I hope the Senator will allow that bill to be these promises, and being more particularly described as follows : acted on. Commencing at the southeasterly corner of the said Presidio, or Fort Mr. MORRILL, of Maine. I withdraw the objection to its consid Point reservation and thence running in a direct line due north to eration; but let the report be read. the shore-line of the bay of San Francisco; thence westerly along the The Chief Clerk proceeded to read the report, submitted by Mr. said shore-line to a point eighty feet, more or less, west of the easterly ScoTT from the Committee on Claims on the 17th of February, but line of the said Presidio, or Fort Point military reservation, as here before concluding, tofore established by the United States authorities, said eighty feet, The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The morning hour has expired, and more or less, being granted for a roadway, or street, called Lyon the Senate resumes the unfinished business of yesterday. street; thence southerly-to a point on the southerly line of said res ervation, eighty feet, more or less, and westerly from the point of CURRE~CY AND BANKING. commencement, said eighty feet, more or less, being for a street, The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the considera named Lyon street, to conform to the plan of the city map of streets tion of the bill (S. No.617) to provide for the redemption and reissue of San Francisco outside of the reservation, said plan being now on of United States notes, and for free banking, the question being on the file in the office of the War Department, in the city of Washington; amendment of 1\Ir. MORRILL, of Vermont, to the first section of the but all laws and parts of laws in conflict with the provisions of this bill as amended. are declared to be inapplicable to the lands by it.relinquished and 1\fr. MORRILL, of Vermont. :Mr. President, it is not the purpose granted. of this amendment to embarra-ss the bill; but it is clearly a proper 1\Ir. THURMAN. Mr. President- amendment, as I suppose, for I do not understand that it is the pur Mr. SARGENT. I will explain the bill in a moment if the Senator pose of the gentlemen who sustain the first section as it has been will allow me to do so. Some twenty-odd years ago the United States adopted to leave power in the hands of the Secretary of the Treasury in marking one boundary of the Presidio ran what it supposed to be to go and buy bonds at 115, 117, or 120 per cent. and pay for them in a due north line. The city, the dtizens, and everybody else acquiesced United States legal-tender notes. I think that ought to be prohibited. in that, and the Government marked its line by a fence, a substantial Nor can I suppose that it is intended that this shall be a resource of fence, which separated its po es ions from the outside world. Nobody the Treasury in lieu of taxation, in lieu of the ordinary revenues of .was dissatisfied. Subsequently, some dozen years thereafter, an engi the country. I suppo~e that it is intended that we shall keep our neer went to run this line of boundary and discovered that there was expenditures within the receipts of the Treasury, and that by no possi a slight error in fixing the true meridian, being the difference between ble contingency are we to make paper money to pay the ordinary the magnetic meridian and the true meridian, a difference which made expenses of the Government. I therefore propose the amendment in a small trianguJa,r piece. This piece was taken off people's houses entire good faith, and I cannot perceive any valid obj ection to it. and gardens and lots which they had occupied for a dozen years under l\fr. LOGAN. Let the amendment be read. undisputed title. The whole Presidio is from fifteen to seventeen hun The PRESIDENT pro tentpm·e. The amendment will be reported. dred acres; and this ·triangle is some fifty or sixty acres, which the . The CmEF CLERK. It is proposed to add to the first section of Government by moving its fences on to these peoplA's possessions the bill, as amended, _the following words : takes possession of. It plainly does not need this land, because it has But no part of the same shall be u ed in the purchase of bonds of the United nearly seventeen hundred acres there; and for military purposes it Sta-tes at above p:u, nor for the current expenses of the Government. cannot possibly want more than four or five hun nate or intimate that any Senator in this Chamber would try to im instance, at the end of eYery quarter, when the pensions have to be pose upon auy other Senator ; that would be a presumption that paid, and when many items of the expense of the Government have to Senators might be imposed upon; but it does seem to me that there be paid, the Secretary of the Treasury, as a prudent man, must have ought to be such a thing as fairness at least in this Chamber. If the a pretty large amount, not in resei'Ye exactly, but on hand, ju t a a majority of the Senate vote that $400,000,000 shall be the maximum good business man wonl , 1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 2515 delivered at the financial meeting in New York, showing that while the object which the Senator from Michigan has in view, namely, a speculator, a broker, nmning his bu 'iness on a ca]iital of .100,000, that the people of the West and South may be best benefited, shall be could get a loanof$14,000,000fromnational banks, a fu·m having been · attained. If he has no instructions to offer to the Secretary of the engaged in legitimate business for ten years, with a cap~tal of half a 'freasmy about that subject, I may perhaps, before we are through million, could not at the same time get a loan of $24,000; whereupon with this bill, offer some suggestions in this respect myself. the Senator from Michigan [Mr. FERRY] said that thi.H fact proved tho Mr. BAYARD. Mr. President, I am afraid that our friends in this neces ity of not keeping the currency in New York, but diffusing it. Chamber who are represented by the Senator from Michigan will Well, gentlemen, what are you proposing here f If you issue the realize aga,in the illustration of the fable of Tantalus. The draught eighteen millions of currency by buying bonds, what will be the effect that they seek will ever be escaping their lips. The Senator says You will send it right into Wall street, and there pour it into the very now the object is to rea.ch a plethora of money in the 'Vest and South hot-bed of speculation. As I showed you in one of my former speeches, by means of banking currency; and how are they to get that f They of the whole 25,000,000 issued by the Secretary of the Treasury after must go to New York, which they admit to be the great money center, the panic, only $2,000,000 went beyond Philadelphia, Boston, and New where these bonds find their best market and where everybody must York, and those 2,000,000, in all probability, remained in Providence purchase; in other words, where capital has accumulated in the shape ·and in the cities of Connecticut; so that if you send out this $18,000,000 of bonds of the Government. They will go toNew York, and for 115 by the purcha e of bonds, certainly the people of theWest and South of currency they will obtain bonds to the amount of $100, upon which will derive no benefit from it at all. · they will have 90 per cent. of banking currency is ued to them under In the second pla-ce, if the money is paid out in defraying the em one of the provisions of this bill; so that in order to obtain their rent expenses of the Government, what will be the consequence ninety dollars they will have to give up $115 of the very thing which '\Ve all know that most of the money which the Government spends they say is so much to be desired by them; and when they have gotten is spent in the East and not in the Vvest and South, and the result their ninety dollars of notes they will take the same course and flow will be the same. I would therefore suggest that the majority of the by the same current and under the same forces to the same money Senate, who have voted to fix the maximum amount of the currency center, to the place where he now goes as his source of supply. That at $400,000,000, instruct the Secretary of the Treasury themselves I believe will be the result, and I think experience will simply repeat how to issue that money, so that it ma.y a.ccomplish the purpose which itself on that question. they contended for in their speeche , namely, increase the volume of But, sir, I wish to ask the Senator from Missouri one question. Ad currency at the dispo al of the people of the West and South. mitting the fact, unfortunately, that it would be so, that there is here l\fr. FERRY, of Michigan. When the Senator from Mis onri read $1 ,000,000 of currency additionally authorized by this :wt of Con that extract from a speech made at the New York meeting I conld gre , there is au increa e of the volume of the currency over and not forego the opportlmity of calling the attention of the Senate and above all that is admitted legally to be out now by anybody of the country to the fact which he disclosed through that speech, that $18,000,000. What is the Senator's design in the treatment of that he corroborated the position those in favor of expansion have taken fund~ Does he design it be held, or how does he design it to be used T throughout this discussion. When it was stated that there wa.s a I can understand now better than when :first offered the operation of large surplus of money in New York we met it by saying that gilt the amendment of the Senat,or from Vermont forbidding the use of edged paper in legitimate business channels could not reach that sur any portion of this $18,000,000 for the purchase of the bonds of the plus, but that speculators on call loans could, and therefore the accu United States in the creation of a sinking fund to enforce the pm mulation of 25,000,000 there was no benefit to the country. I alluded chase of those bonds in gold; and that, I think, would be a very to it for that purpose, and it was a rare opportunity. It is not often whole orne operation. The sale of golu pro tanto would result in gain that the astute Senator from .MiR ouri leave the laches as he did at to the United States, anu we hould do what we can do to purchase that time, and I at once called the attention of the Senate to the fact, our bonds at par in gold, instead of purchasing them at something far fa tening the argument on the side of the expansionists. It was over the premium on gold and silver in paper. simply for that purpose that I called attention to it. But I desire to ask the Senator from Missouri, what is to be the I am very well aware that the pmchase of bonds is made in New result under his theory ¥ 'Vhat use will he make of this additional York. Why? Because more bonds are held there, and parties hold $18,000,000 ¥ Does he not agree with me that expansion and contrac- · ing bonds and desiring to sell them, send them to the met.ropolitan tion at a single man's will is wor e than expansion by itself~ How market. There is the place where bonds are more advantageously does he propose that this $18,000,000 shall be utilized f It has been sold, and money accumulates there. That is the strongest argument authorized, and that means, of course, for issue in some shape or form. why we want another method of supplying currency, and that may Why not, therefore, in ist that it shall he issued, and after that allow be effected through the national system by diffusing the currency the natural ebb and flow of Treasury receiptS and expenditures to we tward and southward. Money in New York will not be held produce that nece ary balance which the Senator from Ohio says when it does not pay, and sooner or later it will diffuse itself else ought to be in the Treasury to meet the emergencies of demand upon where. the Treasury, and which, I think, would be accomplished just as it I would not limit the Secretary of the Treasury. "When the Senator was b efore~ When we had a volume of 356,000,000, the ebb and· throws the responsibility of this section upon the majority here, we :flow of receipt and expenditure continued. The result was to leave are wil.l.rng to shoulder it; and more than that, I will say to the Sen in the Treasury sums varying from three to fourteen million dollars, ator that when the Secretary of the Treasury finds himself in donbt and the Secretary of the Treasury necessarily in the very nature of and invites t.he majority here to instruct him we shall be pleased to things was compelled to control that, and he was controlled iu that do so. We understand the section adopted, and know just what is by the periodic demands of money from the Government, as well as wanted with it. Dut my apprehension of the judgment and intelli its current and constant receipt. That demand will continue, that gence of the Secretary is that, left to that section, he will understand ebb and :flow will continue, and it will regulate itself with 400,000,000 that he has no right to hold a large accumulation of currency in his just as it did with $~56,000,000 ; but until this extraordinary volume vaults, but will keep no more than to meet the demands upon the of $18,000,000 additional shall be issued, I a.sk what use does the Sen Treasmy. When it exceeds that nece ary amount he will pay it out, ator from Missouri propose shall be made of it 'f I assume it t-o be an and if nece ary buy bonds with currency, in keeping up the sinking unhappy fact that it is authorized, but, being authorized, how will he fund. The expenditures of the Government are made all over the conduct it country, and the moneywill be diffused in theirpayment by the Gov Mr. SCHURZ. In answer to the question put to me by the Sena ernment. I prefer, therefore, to localize responsibility just where it tor from Delaware, I would say that I clid not want to issue the belongs. We a a branch of the legislative depm.i;ment have instructed 1 ,000,000 at all; but if they arc to be issued, then I must say that him through the adopted section. He, on the other part, as the execu I wish they would be issued in such a way as to procluce, if possible, tive officer must carry out that section, and if he a sumes a responsi the effects desired by the expansionists, as far as their desire has bility that is not covered by the section, he is responsible for his acts. been expressed. I clo not want them to be thrown right into the cal There is where we wiBh to lodge the responsibility, not let it rest on dron of speculation in \Vall street, as they will be, if United States the shadow of a doubt expressed in this Chamber or in Congre s. bonds are purchased with them. Neither do I desire that by any act 1\fr. SCHURZ. !-lr. President, the logic of the Senator from :Mich of the national Legislature the Government should be so crippled in igan is peifectly admirable. He said that the issue of 25,000 000 its resources as not to have current revenue enough to defray the of currency which staid in the banks of the East only served to running expenses of the Government. I therefore think that, as a increase the accumulation of currency there, which benefits and en certain object wa.s to be a-ccomplished by the issue of these 1 ,000,000, courage speculation and injures legitimate business, so that a specu the gentlemen who desire that increase are bound to give u a method lator can get money for his operations and a legitimate business man of i ue by which the object which they contemplate shall be effected. cannot. That is true. But, now, what does the Senator propose I am free to say to the Senator from Delaware, that rather than that in order to obviate that difficultyt To increase the currency to the eighteen millions shall go where they wiJ.l only do mischief, I ,. 400,000,000; to issue eighteen millions, in addition to the volume uow desire that they be retained in the Treasury, and not go out at all. out, by the purchase of bonds in Wall street, which will only swell 1tir. MORTON. The amendment oifered by the Senator from Ver the accumulation already existing there and aggravate the evil con mont is obviously intended to defeat the action of the Senate yester sequences of it. day. We have heard of the case of the man who was in favor of the He desires to leave the responsibility for that operation with the Maine liquor law but opposed to its execution; and this is precisely SeCI·etary of the Treasury-a responsibility which I should think in that line. The Senator would like to fL'C. it so that the action of the would ue a very hard one for that offi.cer to bear-of so distributing Senate yesterday shall be defeated. Now, we are told that if the the currency (::md here the question is no upon national banks, but greenbacks are put out th y will all go to Wall street and they will upon the issue of $1 ,000,000 additional to what we l.Ja e now) that Rtay t here ; anu t hen when we want a currency issued in the W et>t 2516 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. MARCH 27, from national banks, we are to1c1 that currency will go wherever it is tancl that the langua-ge which he has jnst been usinO' toward what demanded, and it does not make any differeuce where it is put ont. be calls the minority of this body, is very fa.r :from l>ei~g polite. The argument is one way at one time and another way at another 1\fr. LOG.Al~ . Will the Senator allow me a word' time. If it is paid out in Wall street, it will certainly stay there ; but Mr. SCII RZ . Permit me. I am speal"ing now. if it is paid out in the West, it will not stay there because it will go Mr. LOG.AN. Go ahead. . where it is wanted! Then we are told that if new banks are starteu, 1\ir. SCHURZ. It seem to me that any member of this body that will engorge ·wan street; more money must be sent to Wall whether he belong to the minority or the majoritv bas an unques~ street than will be reissued; and so, whatever way you take it, Wall tionable right, in the exercise of his duty as a Senat~r of the United street gets it all! States and un any insinuation as to the majority, he is entirely mistaken. I only entitled" An act to provide for the redemption of tho 3 per cent. temporary-loan proposed to withdraw my amendment in order to give the majority an certificates, and for an increase of national-I.Jank notes," approved July 12, 1870. opportunity to perfect their bill. I might have cho·en some other It is proposed by the Senator from illinois [1\Ir. LOGAN] to amend word and sai.U., "see what sort of a bill,'' or "what bill." But there that amendment by adding the:reto t he following : was no insinuation in my remarks. The Senator from illinois is SEc. 3. That so much of the twenty-seventh section of the act entitled "An act altogether too " udden and quick in quarrel." I have no difficulty t<> provide a national Ctll'rency secured by a pledge of United States bonds, and to with ~ nor with the majority. provide for the circulation and redemption thereof," approved June 3, 1864, and of the several act. supplementary thereto antl amendatory thereof; and such of the 1 Mr. LOGAN. Mr. President, I certainly have not quarreled with provisions of the act entitled "An act to provide for the r edemption of the 3 per the Senator, nor have I had any disposition to quarrel with him. I cent. temporary-loan certificates, and for an increase of national-bank notes," ap· I said what I had a right to say when he insinuated that he withdrew proved July 12, 1870; and so much or such parts of any other act or acts of ·Con r the amendment for the purpose of seeing what kind of a bill the gre s as limit, or as ma.y be con trued to limit or restrict, the entire amount of notes for circulation to be issued under the said act of June 3 1864, and the several sup majority would make. I responded to that in just such language as plements thereto, be, and the same are hereby, repealed; and that hereafter all was natural for any Senator to respond in. associations organized, or that may be organized., for carryin(l' on the bu iness of As to his insinuation about the Senators knowing my manner, my bankin", under the provi ions of saitl act, shall be free to estnbli h and organize manner is my own, and it is not the subject of criticism, either; or nation;j banks with circulation, at anyplace within the several St.ates and 'Terri tories of the United States, upon the terms and conditions and subject to all the limit at least it ought not to be. My manner is my own. It may be gen ations and restrictions now providetl by law, except the limit.ation upon the entire tle or it may not be. It may sometimes be belligerent or it may some amount of circulation, which is hereby repealecl. times not be. It may sometimes be mild and it may sometimes be SEC. 4. That each national banking a sociation now organized or hereaJ'ter to be otherwise. We all have our own peculiarities. It is not a crime, that organized sh~ll kee~ and m a;in~ . as a part of its reserve r09,uired by la.w, OI~e-half part of the com rece1ved by1t as mterest on bontls of the UrutedSt:ites depo 1ted aa I know of. fy manner is earnest; I mean what I say; and if every security for circulating notes or Government deposits; and that hereafter onl.v other Senator meant always what he said, perhaps we should under one-half of the reservenowprescribed by law for national banking a-ssocia.tions shall stand one another better. consist of balances due to an association available for the redemption of its circu lating notes from associations in cities of r edemption, and upon which balance;; no :Mr. THURMAN. :Mr. President-- interest shall be pa.id. Mr. SCHURZ. If the Senator will allow me- Mr. THURMAN. I will give way in a minute. I only want to make :Mr. SHERMAN. '.l;he only point to which I wish to call the atten an inquiry for my own information. I think it would conduce to the tion of the Senate in this matter, for I do not intend to trouble the harmonious proceedings of the Senate if we were to come to an under Senate with debate about this question or to defeat the will of the standing at once as to what is meant by the words "majority" and body, is that the amendment of the Senator from Illinois presents the "minority" in the consideration of this bill. It seems to be assumed simple question, in my judgment, whether the Senate prefer free by some Senators th~1t because. they were in a majority upon a single banking without limitation or restriction or any plan of redemption, 9.uestion, the question whether the volume of greenbacks should be to the free ba,nking proposed by the Committee on Finance in the $382,000,000 or $400,000,000, therefore they are in a majority upon third section of the original bill. The pending a'!Ilendment brll.ws up every question that ca.n arise in the consideration of this subject. for consideration the simple choice between an enlargement ii~ the Mr. LOGAN. Will the Senator allow me right there 'I If this is in way proposed by the Committee on Finance of the amount of circu reply to what I said, I have only to remark that I stated that I did lating notes to be issued by the national banks, and free banking no-t know who was in the majority in reference to any other part of without any limit or restraint; and here I can state in a few words the bill, but that a majority had voted for the $400,000,000, and that the reasons which influenced the Committee on Finance, I think unan was what the controversy was about, not in reference to any other imously, to prefer the mode reported. provision of the bill. No one a£Snmed any such thing; I certainly did In the :first place, if ftee banking is allowed, the tendency will be not. to concentrate not only the new banks but the old banks in the :Mr. THUR]JUN. I am very glad to understand, then, that we are Eastern States, where, on account of the facilities for redemption, it not told to keep our peace upon everything else. is easier and more profitable to conduct a bank. If capitalists are left Mr. MORTON. The Senator from Vermont spoke about "the ma- to choose the place of locating a national bank, they surely will go, jority." . first, to a State where the taxation is least; and second, where the Mr. THURMAN. I tlo not care who spoke about it, for I was not mode of redemption is easiest; and tllinl, where the deposits are the referring to any particular Senator. I want to kilow for my own most, where the na.tural tendency of the current of deposits leads; information what is meant by-" majorities" and "minorities" here. and that has led to the concentration of the great body of the bank Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. It was :first referred to by the Senator ing capital of the country within a few hundred miles of New York ·from Illinois, in his first speech. city. Mr. THURMAN. Suppose there has been a majority on one single In my judgment, if you adopt free banking without any provision question, what does it decide' What has that majority decided Y for its distribution, banks will go from the ·west to the East, even That there shall be $400,000,000 of greenbacks. Has it decided any those that are now in existence. The rem:trkable phenomenon was thing else than that f It has decided that the volume of greenbacks presented at this session of a bank organized in Iowa, where they shall be 400,000,000. I repeat, has it decided anythin~ else 'I Has it have but little capital, making an application to Congress to be decided what shall be done with them f Has it deciaed whether or allowed tv transfer itself bodily to Ohio, where we have nearly our not the use of them for any -particular purpose shall be prohibited proportion. We are opposed to this system of concentrating the bank or shall not be prohibited 'I In other words, has it attempted to de ing circulation of this country in the great commercial cities, because fine in any way, by simply :fL.'(ing their volume at $400,000,000, what it would tend to continue and perpetuate the local discontent and shall be the entire fnnction of those greenbacks 'I I have yet to learn dissatisfaction caused by the present distribution of bank circulation. that; I do not understand it to be so, and therefore it seems to me Therefore it was that we preferred, while increasing tho bank circu that it will be quite sufficient to talk about" majorities" and "minor lation, to make some other rule, which would secure a fair distribu ities" when each question has been decided. In other words, here tion of that circulation as well as an increase of its amount. The are propositions as various as nature itself, and almost as multitu only point we had any hesitation about was, what should be the dinous as the productions of nature. · I imagille that ea-ch one of standard of that increase. On the whole, the committee thought the them will have to be decided upon its own intrinsic merits, according State of New York was the best standard. Why 'I Because New York to the opinions of Senators; and that until each is decided, no one has now 5 per cent. more than the share allotted to her by the Comp can -predicate of it that there is a particular majority on this floor. troller of the Currency, ~nd this plan of ours would give to evm--y Mr. SCHURZ. I want to say only one word in reply to the Sena State an opportunity to come up to the standard of New York, which tor from Illinois, and that is that I entirely agree with my friend from would give them all 5 per cent. more than they would be entitled to Vermont, who again entirely agrees with the Senator from Illinois under existing laws, even if they were authorized to orga.n:ize up to himself, that the manner of that Senator is his own, and I hope it will the limit. remain so. The only complaint I have heard against that is, first, that it does To this I have only to add that I think it somewhat superfluous not adopt the theory of freo banking; but I have given you the ob that when we on our sid&offer amendments to this bill, or when we jection to the theory of free banking; and another objection made by say we are curious to see what kind of a bill the majority will make the Senator from Indiana [Mr. MoRTON] is that this would not give and I confess to some curiosity myself-we therefore cast a reflection to Indiana enough to satisfy their local demand. It will give to In upon the intelligence of the majority, for I can assure the Senator diana a million and a quarter, to Ohio about three millions, and to :1-ll from Illinois that for the intelligence of the majority I entertain tho the States ·west and Sonth more than they can possibly organize profoundest re pect. within many years to come. But if the Senate are dissatisfied with Mr. FERRY, of 1\'lichlgan. Let the question before the Senate be the standard that we have proposed, let them take the State of P erm stated. s.vlvania, which would increase still moro the amount allotted to the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment will be read. Western and Southern States, so as to give them 10 per cent. mor{j The CHIEF CLERK. The amendment proposed by Mr. MERRTM:ON is than the amount allowed by the apportionment fixccl by law at to strike out all after the enacting clause of the bill, and to insert in present. lieu of the matter stricken out : Mr. LOGAN. Why not take 1assachusetts? Tbat the maximum limit of Unitecl States notes for circulation is hereby fixed at ir. SHERMAN. Because Massachusetts is far beyond the limit. 400,000.000 at which sum it shall remain. To give to those States the stanrlard of Massachnset ts would allow SEC. 2. That forty-six millions in notes for circulation, in addition to such circu an increase largely to the State of New York, ancl would practica1l y lead lation now allowet1 by law, shall be i>~ suecl to national banking associations now organized aml which may be or,ganized hereafter; and such increased circulation to the very objection of concentrating the great body of the banking shall be distributed a.mon!{ the several Statal! a proviued in section 1 of tho act circulation in the Eastern States. The reasoning may not be good, 2518 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. ~lARCH 27, but it led us to t,he conclusion that it was wiser to enlarge the limit other, I should be very glad if some Senator would have the benevo iu this way, to make practically free banking, without leading to fnr lence to e:s:plain it to those who, like me, do not understaml it. ther controversy about the distribution of bank circulation; and I now Mr. GORDON. ir. President, I rise to a k whether the Senator record the prediction that if Congre shall adopli tho system of free from illinois will not accept in lien of the first section of hi amencl banking without redemption, without something that will restmin ment the third section of the bill offered by t.ho Committee on Fi the issue of bank-notes, the tendency will ue to concentrate within nance1 For one who has acted with the majority hit herto, I am one hund.reu miles of New York the gr!3at body of the bank circula fully agreed with th Senator from Ohio, [Mr. SHERl\IAN,] if I under tion, and then you will have wide-spread cliscontent throughout the stood his remarks, that this section will better snbserve the purpo o South and ' Vest, where the political power of this country lies, and of the South :tnd We t than the one offered by the Senator from Illi it will endanger and may leau to the overthrow of your whole system. nois. If I am mistaken in t hat, I hope I shall be put right. It is. necessary in any measure you adopt to see that there is a dis My purpose has been, as his has, and the purpo e of all those who trilmtion of these local banks; otherwise banks will go frrst where have acted .together in this matter, to see that the currency shall be the taxes are lowest, next where the deposits are greatest, and third distributed to those States which really need it. I apprehend if we where redemption is easiest. pass an absolutely free banking law, banks will be organized in tho e Mr. CONKLING. 1\fr. President, this proceeding is all so clear and State where money is now most abundant. If it is limited to those so plain, and we are assured so often that tho e who conduct it under States where the currency is needed, as the section reported by the stand it so well, that I feel that no one deserves an explanation who Finance Committee limits it, it will force the money-lenclers in the faits to discover the meaning of what is going on. Neverthele s, I States where iii is now abundant, if banks are organized at all, to or am compelled to ailinit that I am puzzled a little at this moment to ganize them in those States where money is needed. find out the understanding of those by whom these two amenilinents I propound this que tion more to get information for my own mind are presented. One Senator· offers an amendment consisting of two by which to be guided, than to raise any issue on this point. I a(J"ree sections, that being in the nat ure of a substitute for the 'committee's with the Senator from New York that if we are to havefree banhlnrr, bill. Another Senator, without waiting for a vote upon that, and the amendment of the Senator from North Carolina is utterly usele~s movinrr to strike out nothing, moves to add two additional sections. and meaningless. Whyproviclefor forty-six millions and thenpro"i1le One effect of this is to cut ofl:' all amendments, to preclude every other any number of millions 'f I suggest to both these gentlemen that, fot· Senator from offering any amendment whatever, because an amend the third section of the bill as reported by the committee accom ment, if offered, would be in the third degree, and therefore would plishes the entire purpo efor which we have been contending. I tru t be out of order. Of cour e, if I were at liberty to suppose that that that these gentlemen will accept that amendment. I am satisfiml was the motive of this, I could understand the object; but as I am that the third section of the committee's bill can be caiTied by a very not at liberty to suppo e that that was the purpose of any of the considerable majority in the Senate. I apprehend that the other Senators who are acting separately or together, I .must look for an amendments will not accomplish our purpose if we adopt them. If explanation in the matter offered, which it is proposed we shall adopt, I am wrong I desire to be corrected and enlightened on that subject. that it may stand all together. Well, let us see what we should then :Mr. M:ORTO:N. Mr. President, I have no doubt that the Senator have. from illinois intended that his amendment should take the place of The first section is : that portion of the substitute offered by the Senator from North That the maximum limit of United States notes for circulation is hereby fix:eu Carolina. at $400,000,000, at which sum it shall remain. Mr. LOGAN. I will answer that. Whether tl;lat means that $400,000,000 is to be kept out, hit or miss, 1\lr. l\10RTON. I so understood at the time. It may be said that whether that is the thing that is thus to remain, or something else, is he offered it in addition, but it was intended to take the place of it. not the question which I roso to put to the Senate. Mr. LOGA.l.~. I will state right now, if the Senat,or will allow mo, The next section provides that $46,000,000 in notes for circulation that just at the adjournment yesterday I offered the amendment. I shall be aclded to the national-bank note circulation of the country, said nothing about it, but my purpose is to offer thi.l amendment, assuming that I am able to read what appears here. when the proper time comes, to the first section of the bill of tho Mr. MORRILL, of Vermont. If the Senator frcm New York will Senator from North Carolina; after the clause as to four hundred permit me, I desire to correct him in relation to the question of order. million greenbacks, then to add this amendment so as to provide for This amendment to which he has referred wa-s offered in the nature four hundred millions of Uruted States currency and also for free of a substitute. It leaves the original bill to be perfected in any banking, striking out the other sections of the proposition of tho manner that may be proposed. Senator from North Carolina. - Mr. CONKLING. But if my honorable friend had attended to my Mr. GORDON. That relieves one objection, if the Senator from remark he would not have supposed that that wa-s a correction of it. I ndiana will allow me, but not the one to which I called the atten I am quite as well a ware as he can be-that is one of the few things I tion of the Senator from Illinois. do know-that it is in order to perfect the text before you strike it out. 1\ir. LOGAN. I will look at that. I am speaking of these two amendments; and when my honorable Mr. 1\iORTON. The argument of the Senator from Ohio [1\ir. friend from Vermont finds a way now tooffer anamendment to either SHERl\IAN] that free banking will result in the concentration of of them, he will show himself the greatest parliamentarian that ever national hanks within one hundred miles of New York I regard as was fettered by Jefferson's Manual. I undertake to say that there is erroneous, as contrary to the argument arising from the whole situa no mode of doing it ; and I say again that if I could suppose the Sen tion. In the first place, national banks are not profitable without ators intended to prevent my friend from Vermont from offering an deposits. The profit on the currency, as shown by the Comptroller, amendment., I could see the object ofthat to which I am now endeav is less than 2 per cent. Therefore no national bank can be maintained oring to call attention. It is this: Section 2 of the proposed substi profitably West or Ea-st, unless it shall be so managed and so located tute provides that $46,000,000 in bank-notes shall be added to . the as to attract deposits. They have enou,~?h banks now in Boston and bank-note circulation, and then provides the means and the where it New York and every other place in the East to absorb all the deposits shall be distributed. that are offered. Th y do not require a new bank for that purpo e. Now I come to the amendment to the amendment, which, striking But there are hundreds and hundreds of towns in the West where ont nothing, provides that the addition of bank-note circulation shall there is no bank at all, and where a bank once establi bed will attract be absolutely without limit, except so far ~ the law of supply and a line of deposits that will make that bank profitab1e ; and this is the demand shall e tablish limits; and this is all to stand in one statute argument I have been trying to present during this whole discus ion. together. What is it to mean when it is all adopted If it were a I want to meet tliese local demands, for I say that no national bank will, I should appeal to the honorable Senator from Ohio [Mr. THUR can be ma.intained unle s it can be maintained profitably, and it can MAN] to recite to me the canons of construction which assign to not be unless it can attract a liberal line of deposits; and to estab after-coming clauses their iu.fiuence upon those which precede. It is lish a bank in a town where there are already banks enough to absorb a statute, a part of an enactment to be struck with the same die and all the deposits, is without object. Therefore this danger of the East imprint of legislation on the same day; aml it provides in one section ab orbing all the national banks is wholly without reason. If there that 46,000,000 shall be added to the national-bank circulation, and a.re not enough banks in Boston for the depo its there, then give them provides in the next-coming section that there shall be all the addi more, I say; but if there are enough, then nobody in Boston can afford tion that anybody asks for. Whoever has strength or inclination to to start and maintain another national bank. I want the West and rise and move forjudgment is to have it as if on a forthcoming boud, the South, and evenPennsylvaniaand New York, for I believe they, too, to the amount of all the circulation for which he is able to deposit want more. I have no doubt that New "Y;ork this day, in the western bonds. And that result is effected, as I understantl, by repealing so and middle parts, is in need of a.dditional national-bank facilities. much of a great number of sections recited, and the several supple I have no doubt in regard to Pennsylvania. I know how it is in r - ments thereto, "a limit, or as may be construed t.o limit or re trict, gard to my State. Now, put in the limitation of New York, a it is in the entire amount of notes for circulation to be i sued under the said the third section of the bill r eported by the Senator from Ohio, and a.ct of June 3, 1 64, and the several supplements thereto, be, and the he says it gives Indiana a million and a quarter additional. Why, same are hereby, repealed." sir, that does not meet the demands of Indiana to-day. If those two sections consist with each other, and if that is the There is no danger, in my judgment, in thee tablishment of free meaning of the Senators who · have been called or miscalled the banking, because national banks are costly; they require act.ual cap majority, and who seem to have a common understanding on this, at ital. It is not the old system of wild-cat banking, where men could least an intelligent understanding, I shall be glad to kuow it. If, on bank without capital, and where there was da.nger in free banking, the contrary, there is any mistake about this, and we are not asked and where there hail to be safeguards. National banking is co tly; to vote for these two sections appanmtly irreconcilable with each it requires actual cash to begin it; and no man of sense cau afford to 1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORDo 2519 establish a national bank in a. town where there is not a demand for again be reported that the Rupply of loanable funds under the light demand con it, and he will not do it. There mnst be a domn,nd f?r it in the way tinues to accumulate. . of local business. He cannot afford to put t:wo banks ill a town where It quotes from Cincinnati : one bank will do the business properly of that town and that neigh llnsiness in our local money market has been unusually dull nearly all the week, borhood. and the banl•s have gained so largely in means that the market is very easy at 8 to Therefore Mr. President, so far as I am concerned, while I am pre 9 per cent., :md in some instances even lower figures are accepted. pared to take the very be~t that.I can.get in this wh?le business.' I Quoting from a Chicago market 1·eport: It is useless for any one to deny the fa.ct that there is an unusual amount of believe on a fnll and farr consideratiOn of everything, that flee loanable funds in the market which the owners are willing t{) lend at 8 per cent. if ba,nkin:,., as it is called, is the safest and the best for the whole conn they can get satisfactory security. try. Ifthe wants of New England are such that she actually needs So it seems that the abundance of money in the New York market more banks I say rrive them to her, although she has now got far is not a sign of the scarcity of money elsewhere. more than her shar~ of the e:xisting national banking capita.]. Mr. MORTON. We have heard that two or three times in this The whole argument on the other side ha-s i?ored the actu~l con debate. clition of the country from first to last. That 18 the trouble w:1th our Mr. SCOTT. 1\Ir. President, the amendment offered by the Senator friends. They insist on considering things just as they were ill 1865. from North Carolina proposes to strike out all of the bill reported by They refuse to recognize w~a~ has tak~n place since; they refuse to tb,e committee, ancl that would strilce out any provision whatever for recoO'nize the actual cond1t10n of this country. All that I have redemption of the United States notes, and that would strike out the asked from first to last is that the present condition of this country in only thing which could induce me to vote for a system of free banking. wealth, in population, in growth and developm~nt, shall beconsi~erec;t. I shall vote for a system of free banking whenever there is incor Why, sir, the present plethora of currency ill New ~ork, which.18 porated with it anything which looks like a reasonable system of re of~ thrown in oiu faces at every moment, only proves the enstence demption, and I not only will vote for it, but I desire ~o see that kind ease not that there is enourrh money; and when we were told rna of a svs1iem of free banking. spee~h the other night at the Cooper Institute that $14,000,000 could 1\Ir.'THURMAN. Will the Senator from PeilllSylvania allow me to be borrowed for stock speculation, and that a respectable, responsible ma,ke a suggestion 1 house could not get$25,000 for mercantile purposes for sixty days, what Mr. SCOTT. Yes, sir. . Y It confi~ence; does that prove proves that there is a want of that Mr~ THURMAN. We have on the statute-book now the amplest while men will lend money upon call, upon the deposit of bonds provision for free banking that any ma.n can imagine, if they will only an(l collateral security that may be called in to-morrow, they do not pay specie. feel safe in lending it for sixty clays; and yet we are told tha.t _Prov~s Mr. SCOTT. On a gold basts¥ that everything is lovely, there is pl~nty of currency, a:nd busille~s 18 Mr. THURMAN. Yes. in a first-rate condition! It proves JUSt the reverse; It proves JUSt Mr. SCOTT. I am awr.re of that. what we have been saying. There is a want of legitimate demand Bnt, 1\Ir. President, I do not wish to ta.ke up time on that part of for money, owing to the gen~ral pr~stmtion of business. A t~wusa.nd the case, for I have already adverted to it in other remarks that I legitimate deman~s that ensted .siX m~nths ago do not enst now, have made. I desire it because I wish to see the bonds upon which and will not, until Congre~s by Its actwn shall restore confidence these national banks woul which imposes n. penalty upon him. That is certainly free banking. . SF.c. 27 . .And be ~t.(arther en~cted, Tha,t it sh~l be lml:n_vful for any officer act, m~ uniler the provuuons of this act to c~unters!gn or deli>er to any a<>sociatiun, That would certainly permit the issue of bank-notes in the manner or to any other comp:my or person, any crrculab.ng notes contemplated I.Jy this act suggested by the Senator from ·wisconsin [Mr. HoWE] yesterday, to except as hereinbefore proviilei!, and in accordance with the true intent an«l wean be distributed as public documents for t.he amusement of the chil ing of thl a()t. And any officer who shn.ll violate the provisions of this section sh~ I.Je deemed guilty of a !Ugh mistlemeanor, ann on conviction thereof, shall be dren. purusbed by fine not exceerl.i.ng double the amount so count rsi..,ned and delivered Now, sir, I do not wish to take up time in argningthe other features and imprisonment not le s than one year and not exceedin·~ ~en years at th~ of the measure, but I do wish to call attention to what I think will discretion of the court in which he shall be tried. " . ' show that the provision reported by the committee would certainly ~ive opportunity for testing the operation of this free banking. Sup 1\Ir. MORTON. This amendment does not repeal anything in that pose you take the limit that Pennsylvania now has, which would section. give 10 per cent., or even if yon take the limit which Massachusetts Mr. SCOTT. Then why is it repealed 'I Whv refer to it by name 'I or Connecticut or any one of the New England States has; how long It is the very first section referred to as repealed. would it take before the additional circula.tion would be taken up l .Mr. LOGAN. I beg the Sen:1tor's pardon; all of the sections in We passed an act in 1870 increasing this national-bunk circulation reference to banking and currency are referred to, and all the sup $54,000,000, and it is only within the last few months that the limit plementary acts are referred to, and then this repealing clause applies ha-s been reached. It has taken four years. During four years of only t-o the limit on the circulation, ancl nothing else. prosperity $54,000,000 were applied for in the Southern and Western Mr. MORTON. It does not repeal anything in that section. States. Now, with the limit of New York, the committee's bill will ~1r. LOGAN. It does not repeal a thing in any section, except the · give about $110,000,000; and at that rate it would be a;t least four limit on the circulation. It names all the act.s so as to encompass them years more, even if the demands of the country for circulation are in one bill and then repeals the parts that may be in any of tho e acts 50 per cent. more than they were during the past four years, before that affect the circulation, and that is all there is in it. But if the this limit would be taken up. If you adopt the limit of Pennsyl criticism of the Senator fTom Pennsylvania was even correct, and he vania, it would give eight years for the purpose of determining desired to perfect this proposition, it would be very easy for him to whether this free banking would operate and would in that time, as move to strike out that clause. ' the Senator from Ohio has shown, be taking capital from the older !\h. SCOTT. I call the attention of the Senator to it. States and perforce putting it in the Western States, instead of build Mr. LOGAN. Very well ; we will examine it and see what it ing up and thrusting upon public attention the monopoly in this means. business which would be obtn,ined and enjoyed in the Eastern States. Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. It seems to me that the Senatorfromllli Mr. MORTON. There is not so much danger of a rush, after all, is nois did not mean to repeal that act. It is too plain for us to argue there't about it. :Mr. SCOTT. I say there is not so much danger, after all, and there Mr. LOGAN. It does not repeal that act. fore the section reported by the committee ~i ves ample opportunity Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. The Senator from illinois certainly clidnot and verge enough for the experiment of this question of free bank put in :!..tis amendment therepealof an act which was not to be affected ing; and so long as it is tmaccompanied with redemption I wish to one way or the other by this law. That is clear. What the Senator see some ~it to it. Put the feature of redemption in it, and I will from Illinois meant, I presume, and it may have been a mere clerical vote for free banking. I want it. I want to will be found to it. But the Senator from Pennsylvania is mistaken, it a larger amount. That is all the difference. If these Senators are in my judgment, as to his construction of this proposj ion. I admit really in favor of free banking, if they desire it, this amendment pro t.bat he is a good lawyer, but I am satisfied from examination that vides for it, aud in my jndgment provides for it in the best mode we his construction is incorrect. The construction of this section of my can provide for a sy tern of that kind. amemlment is to repeal the limitation on that particular thing, and I have but one more remark to make, as the time is very short, m nothing else, That is all it U.flplies to except that whatever may be answer to a suggestion made by several Senators. The Senator from in connection with it in any way whatever, either of officers or any Ohio now absent from his seat, [Mr. THUR!\1AN,] the Senator from thing else that refers to that limitation, is repealed to that extent Missonri., [Mr. SCHURZ,] the Senator from Vermont, [1\Ir. MORRILL,J and no further. That is the meaning of it, and I do not propose to and several other·, have said" You tulk about majorities." There ha change it, because it is exactly right the way it is. It repeals every not been a word said about a maJorit.y on any propo ·ition here except thing that rel:ltricts the circulation, and repeaJa nothing else. That is the one that was voted upon yesterday evening. I know nothing as all the effect that the ection has. to how the Senate stands on this proposition, except the position of While I am up, I will say a word. in answer to some of the objec a few gentlemen with whom I have conversed. I do not present this tions that have be.en made by Senators here. As a matter of course, amendment because I think there is a majority for it. I fear there is every kind of objection will be made to free banking. We are told not. I present it because I think it is fair, jnst, right and equitable, that if we establish free banking the country is going to be flooded, and the very thing we ought to do to relieve the country as it stands the world is going to be deluged with paper money, and all the objec to-day. tions possible to be made will be made, in order to do what~ In order I notice that some Senators have very suddenly become greatly to carry out a certain theory, and that is, the contraction of t.he cur alarmed at the idea of free banlring. \Vhy Do they suppose that rency. Now let us see what the volume will be. I think there is no banking will go on in the country to such an extent that the country man here w bo will stan(l up before the Senate and the country and will be ruined, while the Government stands behind the bank-notes say tb.at the monopoly feature in the national banking law is correct. with its gold-bearing bonds for their redemption in the hands of the I do not believe there is a Senator hero who will do that. people f I should like to inquire what ruin can fall upon the people The PREbiDING OFFICER, ( lr. MoRRILL, of Vermont, in the chair.) when redemption is secured 'f There is not a Senator in this Cham The ten minutes of the Senator from Illinois have expired. ber to-day but says he is for free ban1..-ing, provided yon will give Mr. MORTON. I move to strike out the second section of the gold redemption. What is the difference between a gold redemption original bill. The Senator from Illinois can continue his remarks on and a s.ecnred redemption' If it is secured by gold-bearing bonds that motion. that will produce the gold, I should like to know the difference. l\ir. LOGAN. On that amendment I ask leave to continue my ex These Senators are for free banking when we have the gold, but they planation. know we have not the gold, and they know we are not going to have I was saying that I did not believe there was a Sen a tor in the it very soon. Hence they are for free banking. How Merely to Chamber who would stand up before the country and say that he was satisfy the people that they are for it provided it can be done, but they in favor of the rest:ricti ve monopoly feature of the national banking are against it because they think. it cannot be done. Sir, free bank law. If we are not in favor of that feature, if we are not in favor ing can be carried on just as well as onr present limited banking, of restricting the right to bank in any State or Territory in this Union, becau e it is upon the same basis, with the very same redemption, and what then i · the converse of the proposition¥ It is the repeal of with the same privileges and none other that are now possessed by t.hat restriction. \Vbat eti'ect does the repeal of that restriction pro banks under thenational banking act. If redemption is secnred with duce 1 It is to give any banking association that will put up the the amount of banks we have in the United States at the present bonds in the Treasnry of tho nited States the right to such circula time, would not that redemption be equally secure if we had twice tion as the law authorizes, after those bonds have been plac~d there the number of banks t U the bond of the Government is good secu as the basis for circulation. That is all that this propo ition does, rity to the bill-holder for one bank, is it not good for two banksf nd it is all it propose to do, to give the same right to one set of This idea that yon will give free bankin!?.if we have gold to bank on nndividuals in one community that another set of individuals in an is, in my judgment, without any foundatwn whatever, as long as we iotber community enjoy under ·the present law as it exists. have goou securities. Then, in reference to the amount, it is not pos ible that the cmmtry Let us see. Suppose you have gold banking; does every Senator will be flooded with paper money. It is restricted by the volume of here not know that we never had gold banking in this country except ·United States notes; it is restricted by the business of the country; on the basis of about one dollar in gold to three in paper 'I But here, it _is restricted the same as anything can be by the business opera under this act, we have not only a dollar of gold-bearing bonds for a tions of the country, and that is restriction enough, in my judgment, dollar of bank-notes,. but we have one hundred cents of a gold-bear so far as the ci.rculating medium is concerned. ing bond for the 1·edemption of ninety cents of your circulation, when But the Committee on Finance say they are in favor of free bank your gold banks that you have spoken of had but one dollar of gold ing. What sort of free banking¥ Free banking in one Stat-e and to three of paper for their redemption. It makes it a more secure not free banking in two; free banking in three Statoo, but not in and better plan, a better system, than any we have ever had in tbis five. Tbat is not free banking. That is not taking o1f t.ho restrictive country, and gives mm·e security to the bill-holder throughout the feature in this banking law at all, but it is merely doling out driblets whole country. in certain States to quiet them for awhile, and that is all there is in I offered tills, as I said, because the Senator from Pennsylvania [l\ir. it, and that is the meaning of it. Inasmuch a.s the We t and South CAMERON ] was absent yesterday evening. It was his amendment. demand that they shall be pla.ced on an equality with New England I claim no credit for it whatever, whether it is pas ed or defeated. and other States, the Committee on Finance now propose to give He was absent, and he telegraphed me that he could not be here. He them a crumb, so that they may be satisfied for awhile. That is all said nothing about this amendment, however, and I offered it because it means. be was absent, ina much as he had ofiere(l it before, and I knew he But the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. Scorr] says be is for free would desire to do it if be wa.s here. I offered it in good faith for banking with some mode of redemption. Let us see whether he is in him, and I shall stand by it and vote for it, because I think it is right. earnest or not. I added a section to this amendment providing for a Mr. BUCKINGHAM. I want to make a sin(J'le suggestion in regard reserve of gold for the redemption of the national-bank notes to the to section 4. It provides that the banks sb;;:n' retain one-half of the amount of one-half of the interest accruillg on the bonds on deposit coin which they receive for interest due on their bonds. The question in the 'lreasnry of the United ·States. Why do I do thaU In order with me is, what will be the e:fl'ect of holding or boarding the coin Y that when the Treasury of the United States is accumulating gold If it has the same effect on gold which tbe hoarding or withdrawing for the redemption of United States notes the nationa.l banks may be from the market of other productions has, it will be to diminish the accumulating gold at the same time, so that when the Treasury of the quantity and inQrea e the price of the balance. So, if you lock up by United States is ready to say "We will redeem our notes" the national this bill any considerable quantity of coin in the banks, I submit . banks will be ready to say the same thing. That is the natme of this whether it will not increase the price of the balance, which as a mat proposition. You want the Government of the United States tore ter of course will become, a.s it has already becm:pe, a,n article of mer deem its note , but do you not know that the very moment the Gov chandise, and whether he who buys coin, whether to pay dntie8 on ernment of the Unite 2522 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. MARCH 27, on all hands. I have heard the argument on this floor in favor of the a circulation that shall be uniform in every State, and so secured and r edeemable Treasury of the United States getting gohl tmd hoarding it there in that its quality will nover ho que tioned or its holders entert-ain misgivings a to its absolute safety. Conceding this t~ be so, can that result be obtained under the order to prepare for redemption.•now. Now we hear the argument State s_ystem or under the present national plan 1 that if the banks bold part of their n:serve in gold, it will be hoard I believe it is entirely practicable to frame a system of banking which shall at ing gold and putting it out of the market. . It only looks to me a,s onco preserve aJl the excellent qualities of the national plan and still be free from the defects which are conspi uous in that, while it will be wholly removed from though there is nothing that is satisfactory. One argument is good the tendencies to abuse and mismanagement which it is gravely apprehended inhere one day in one line, and it is just as good the next in another line. If in that. it is good to hoard gold in the Treasury of the United States for t.he purpose of preparing for redemption, I want yon to tell me why it is A PLA:-. FOR FREE TIA..!.YKISG, WITH STATE BANKS AND A NATIONAL CURRENCY. How, then, can wo secure a uniform and sta.ble circu1'l>tion with a system of fr e not good to hoard gold in a bank for the purpose of preparing for its banking applicable to all the States and under State supervision ~ redemption ' First. Let the F ederal Government is ne the circulation of the country. Mr. SCHURZ. The Senator from Illinois set out with the remark Secondly. Circulation shall be issued only to banks duly o"ganized untler the laws that it was remarkable how changeable arguments are, and then he of the State wherein located. Thirdly . .Any bank so organizr.d, may, on the requisition of the State department went on to-I would not say insinuate-- which E\xerci es supervisory power over it, r eceive as much Girculation as it shall :Mr. LOGAN. I did not say anything about your argument. d(lposit United States bonds \vith the General Government to secure the redemptiou 1\Ir. SCHURZ. Then I suppose it referred to somebody else. of its bills. Mr. LOGAN. I referred to ~ he Senator from New J ersey, who made Fourthly. The bills issued to one bank shall present the same appearance as those of like denomination issued to any other bank, except the imprint on the bill of tho a suggestion in reference to getting gold in the Treasury prepamtory name aml location of the bank, which shall indicate to what bank issued and by to the redemption of the United States notes. what bank redeemable. lli. FRELINGHUYSEN. Yes, l\Ir. President. Fifthly. .All circulation so issued shall be redeemed by the bank towhichitis issued, Mr. LOGAN. And I said that arguments were made one way on in specie, at one or more of tho great money centers of the country. Sixthly. .All bills to bosent in the first instance to the banking department, or other one side and another way on another line. State department authorized by law in the several States, for r egistration before Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Yes, l\Ir. President, I did make that sug delivery to the banks. gestion, and what I thought.was as near as I could come to an argu Seventhly. The organization, direction, and supervision of all banks, the rate of interest paid, and all the practical details of banking, to bo left to the legislation of ment in support of it; and I shall, before this bill is perfected, renew the several States. that same suggestion, and, with such time as I have, advocate it; for This plan would conform substantially to the free-banking law of 1838, adopted I believe the only possible way that we can ever come to a resumption in our own State, except that the IJaper money, insteacl of being local and diversi of specie is to h ave specie, and I believe it is perfectly feasible for us fied, wonld be uniform and national in its character. Congress would exerci e tlle constitutional powers delegated to it in regulating the currency of the country, and to have it: As to thn.t portion of the amendment of the Senator from the State the exclusive control of its adaptation to the wants of tho people, the illinois, it meets my hearty approbation; and the way that I would req nirementsoftrad.e, the "TOwth and e:~:pansion of comm rce, and the manufacturing remedy the cli.fficulty suggested by the Senator from Connecticut is industries of the nation. The volume of circulation would always be graduated by that I would make an amendment to his amendment making it law the inexorable law of supply and demand; would expancl and contract in obedience t~ the general laws of trade, and not at the clamor of financial pretenders, or the ful for the banks on good security to loan out that gold. selfish demands of adventurers and speculators. Money is only an arbitrary stand Mr. LOGAN. As a gold loan Y ard by which values are measured, intrinsically of little worth, and valuable only so l\Ir. FRELINGHUYSEN. Yes. far as it represents a purchasing power of material values. Why, then, . hould the Mr. SCHURZ. ·when the Senator from New Jersey interrnptedme representative of values be restricted in its volume more than the actual values themselves, except so far as the lessons of intelligent experience teach the amount I merely desired to state that if the Senator from Illinois referred to r equired fu meet the varying coudiLions of commerce 1 Gold and silver being the the changing of arguments, he certainly did not refer to any of mine, recognized standard in all countries by which values are measm·ed anddeterminotl, for I had not made any such change. including paper money it becomes necessary to redeem on demand a paper cur rency in coin, in order to give it stability and a uniform. value appro:rimatinJr in tht:l l\Ir. LOGAN. The Senator from Missouri must not think I am highest degree to gold value. . - r eferring to him every time I make an argument on the .floor, for he The serious objection t~ State bills issued under our free-banking law and the did not enter my mind at all. I was not thinking of him or his banking laws of other St.a.tes was the want of uniformity of value. \Vhile a bill argument. might pass cUITent in the State where it was is uecl, it becam less current the 1r. SCHURZ. I do not aspire to such honor. farther removed from that State because it was local in its character, and depended on local securities for it.s ultimate redemption ; hence the bill.~ of one State were Mr. BOGY. Every Senator on this floor, I think, has spoken but not as acceptable nor as widely diffused tbrouj!hout the country, even in our own myself, and it is time I should say something. I will detain the Sen internal commerce, as the bills of another-the legitimate result of the superiority ate but a moment. I rise to say a word because I wish to present to of the system of banking, and the stability and quality of the securities pledge:! for their r edemption of one Stat-e over another. the mind of the Senate again a little plan of my own that I sug The free banking system. of New York was regarded as the mo t perfect which gested at the beginning of the discussion of this subject as early as was ever devised, prior to the establishment of the national plan. The national the month of January. It is to take this entire subject out of Con system is one of the products of war. It is equal proof of the soundne s and ex gress and give it back to the States, where this subject properly be cellence of our free-bankin~ laws that the nationalln.w is a transcript in the most of its es entia! features ana fundamental ·principles from the N ew Yor-k law . It longs; and this very discussion shows that it does not belong here. is in the novel and distinctive characteristics of the national plan, that tho grave.'\t As I am limited to ten minutes I will not detain the Sena,te in Jllaking defects and the most serious jars are found in the practical operations •)f the na much of a speech, but will read from the report of Mr. Ellis, the tional banks. H ence the national scheme furnishes both positive aml negative superintendent of the banking department of the State of New York, testimony of the superiority of the New York plan. The merits of the natioual syst-em are borrowed; its defects are orit,rinal. It.s sole conspicuous advantao-e is advancing very ably the same ideas: uniform currency. The plan I have submitted, it is believed, will embrace"' the Banking should be fre&- practically proven merits of both, without the known defects of either. There is no emergency, either political or financial, at pre. m1t. which requires the Says this r eport. maintenance of the harsh and prohibitory provisions and needless discriminations against State banks, which exist in the national syst-em. I respectfully submit that What is to be the future banking system, and the paper currency of the country~ your honorable body should request the Representatives of the State in Con;rress The reasons why the Government should not control and manage the issues of tlle to endeavor to procure such legislation as will relieve tho State banks from their currency capriciously and arbitrarily, are impregnably strong. The power is so present condition, and will insure for them the exerCise of the powers and the en great, and its abuse is so easy, as to furnish temptations which it would be more joyment of the rights now possessed by the national banks in respect to circulation. than human always to resist successfully. The perversion of such pd"weris so ruin Tlie plan which 1 havo proposed would secure t hese without any violent disturb ous and wide-spread in its ultimate effects, and the remedy for them is so difficult ance of existing institutions, while it would greatly contribute to the agencies which to apply, that a free people should always r efuse to permit their rulers to exercise serve the business interests and commerce of the people of this and of other States. such plenary powers. History is full of warning upon thh; point; fresh examples mav be found in our own. · On the 5th of January and on the 19th of February I made remarks Under the prohibitory tax of Congress, State circulation can no longer be issued, aml so long as the tax remains we must be content with tho national cUITency on this subject to the Senate. I take this gentleman, from whose unequally distributed, and adapted to the varying wants of b.·ade, only by the lim report I have just read, to be a good financier; and as he agrees with itations of restrictive law, without the inherent powers of expansion and contrac me, it is natnraJ. that I should think so. He made his report to the tion by the demands and necessities of business. While it is generally conceded Legislature of New York on the 6th of January, and I made my first that we must have a paper currency, it is at least debatable wliether the present one is the best for the country. · s-peech on the 5th of J anuary ; but I do not think he stole anything The na-tional banking syst-em is radically defective in some essential features. from me, and I do not think I could have got anythino- from him. It Proof of this is seen in the numerous proijositions for amendment and in the sub only shows that men will agree sometimes about the same thing, stitutes presented to Congress; and in the :ITequent solicitation for importantchanges though they are a great distance apart and have not communicated by the large commercial associations of the countr.v, which represent the trained capacity and the practical- knowledge of the men who are foremost in our grand with each other. domestic business enterprises and industries, and who direct our commerce and Now, sir, I am opposed to free banking nndor the Federal Gov· traffic with other nations. The material modification of the national banking law ernment, although I n,m in favor of au ex-pansion of the currency. is demanded, with tho repeal of thoso restrictions which prevent the formation of Believing tbat the country,particnlarls the West-the section whence new banks, and limit the powers of State banks by onerous discriminations a~ainst them. Banking should be free. Such a system only is consonant with the sp1rit of I come-needs it, I shall vot.e for an expansion of the currency. But our institutions and the temper of our people. a the same time I wish it to be distinctly understood that I have The people evidently desrre the management of their own affairs in trade and never "been a friend of this system, and am not now. I am opposed finance, With as little intervention by the Federal Government as possible, leavi.n Let all this !'\Rtem, l10wever, Mr. President, be of short duration. It is not com stage of t.his bill, it must be because the Senator from Illinois has Jletent for this· Govomruent, or any government, to make money beyond coining offered. an amendment to the substitute of the Senator from North mt-.tal, gohl and silver; anti if the Government were competent, in a country like Ot!l"s-c";,mposed of clifl'erent States, spreading over a cont.iuent, aurl extending Carolina; but I hardly see how that makes any difference in the rule. aero s uifi't>rent la.titnrles, with flifferent productions, different wants-it is impos You may perfect the original measure before a vote is taken on strik sihlo for the national Govemment to exercise wisely this power. Both as a politi ing it out and substituting orne other. I should like to know what cal and a eommercial question, such a power should not be in the Federal Govern the ruling is. ment. Tho States are tbe proper a,gents to discharf!e this uut.v. Each State, know in!" its wants and its needs, can do tills with more wisdom and without any danger Mr. MORTON. Does the Chair rule my motion out of orderf of overis ue. nut o"in~ to the fact that we have different States, extending over The PRESIDEN'r pro tempore. The Chaar does rule it out of order a continent., with varied and different productions, tho neces. ity of uniformity in at the present time. The question is on the amendment of the Sen value becomes of paramount importance. While my idea is that the States should ator from Illinois [Mr. LOGiL~] to the amendment of theSenato1·from baYe the power to cl}.a.rtcr as many banks as they might think proper, they being tho jmlg" of the amount of money they require, 1: would have a law for the entire North Carolina, (l\lr. MERRDIO~.J nation, requiring all tho States to deposit Unitecl States bonds, as is now required l\fr. HOWE. I wish the Senator from illinois would modify his by tbo law authorizing national banks, a.nd as the nation is responsible for these amendment for the present, or at least I wish he would move the first bimus, and would have possession of them, to assume, as is now tho law, the pay section of it separately. I hu,ve once voted for that proposition. ment of the circulation. This would give uniform value to the circulation. To this general law each. State would be required to conform. This would take from Although the situation is somewhat changed since I gave that votE:', the Fetlcral Government the power to control now exercised by Congress and the it is not so much changed but that I shall feel compelled to vote for Secretary of the Treasury. Tills system of banking I would call State independence it again. If the Senate should (j.gree to that or disagree to that, there with national security. would be no embarrassment in moving then the second section. I On the 19th of February I sa,id : , cannot vote for the second section of the amendment, and I cannot Mr. Presidrnt, I hope to see the day when this whole system will be wiped out; vote for the first section of it with the second. I can see no neces wh en tmch a thin.g as the Ferleral Government makin"'/aper and calling it money sity for crippling the banks as it is proposed to cripple them by thai will b a thing of the past. The who1e subject sbo;'i' bo a speedily as possible 1·cmoverl from the Halls of Congress and remitted to tue States. The resolution I section. in trocl ucerl . orne time a~o, and now before the Committee on Finance, fully explains I noticed that the Senator n:om Ohio, [1\Ir. SHER:\fiL~,] in explain my views on the suhject. Let each State be tbejndge of the amotmt of banking ing the measure that he reported, called this a "strengthening of the capital its business wants require, as al. o the number of banks. Let each one pro banks." I do not understand how it strengthens the banks to vitle what security it may deem proper for its depositors. Yet, as the notes issued perform a. function which is nutiona.l, because they circulate in every part of the require them to pile up coin, which they cannot use, in their vaults. country, the security for their rc second section of the bill reported by the committee, tha,t the Senator Mr. B CKINGHAM. I think the Sena,torfrom Indiana is mistaken from Indiana wishes to strike out, which seems to me to be a very in regard to his idea of the effect of preserving this section of the bill. obnoxious section, and which I am in favor of striking out, I will His idea seems to be that it ·will bring n1in on t-he country if leo-al withdraw temporarily the amendment I offered to tho amendment of tencler nottlS are converted into interest-bearing bonds. Now, I ~ub the Senator from Nort.h Carolina,, so that the question then will recur mit whether there can be any injury to the business of the country on tho motion of the Senator from Indiana,. unless there is somewhere a depression; unle s there is a reduction The PRESIDENT p1·o ternp01·e. The Senator from· Illinois with somewhere in value . But this section proposes to depress nothing draws his amendment to the amendment of the Senator from North unless it is possible you may ~:;ay it depresses the value of gold. 0~ Carolina. Now the motion of the Senator from Indiana is in order, the contrary, the effect of this section will be.to increase the value of which is to strike out the second section of the original bill. Is that legal-tender notes, and I submit that there is not a man from one end the motion T of this nation to the other who can be in the least injured by raising Mr. MORTON. Yes, sir. the value of the legal-tender notes toward the gold standaru. This Mr. WRIGHT. I rose for the purpose of addressing myself to the in my judgment, would be the effect of retaining a measure of thi~ proposition of the Senator from Illinois t.o amend the amendment of kind. the Senator from North Carolina. Further, I should hope, if that privilege is permitted the American The PRESIDENT pro te-mpore. That is no longer pending. people, it would be followeu by another privilege; and that would be Mr. WRIGHT. I have nothing to say on the pending amendment, of exchanging bonds for legal-tender note . If that should be adopted but I have on the other amendment when it shall be offered. But I and become a law, there would be an interchangeability between notes wish to say this, inasmuch as it seems to be taken by consent here and bonds, and they would hang upon the pivot of a 5 per cent. inter- ' that there is no power to amend the bill in the attitude that it was at est; and upon that p1vot they would swa,y forward and back, up and the time the decision was made, that I have very great doubts of tho down, according to the demands of the business of the conntry. correctne s of that r uling, and I trust the Senate will not accept it as Mr. MORTON. Will my friencl allow me to ask a question t the conclusive ruling of the Chair or the Senate on that question. Mr. BUCKINGHAM. Certainly. Mr. MORTON. I desire totakethesenseof the Senate on the prop :Mr. MORTON. I ask my friend from Connecticut this question : osition involved in the second section of the original bill to authorize If by the adoption of this provision you change the value of the green any person having $1,000 in greenbacks, or any multiple thereof, to back note 10 or 12 per cent. in twenty-two months, give it that much convert them on demand into bonds drawing 5 per cent. interest in additional value, what is the effect of that upon the debtor class of gold, payable in gold at the Treasury of the United States at any the country' I ask hlm if it does not increase the difficulty of pay time after ten years. The object of that section, as I understand, on ing debts just the extent of the appr~ciation Y the part of the chairman of the committee, is to bring greenbacks to Mr. BUCKINGHAM. Well, if I owed $1,000, and had the greenbacks gold value on the 1st of J anuary, 1876, by author i zin~ them to be to pay it with, and you should enact a law making the e greenbacks converted into a bond which of itself is at par in golct. His argu worth 12 per cent. more, I think I could pay my debt just as easily as ment is that as the 5 per cent. bond is at par ingold, when you authorize I could before. the conversjon of the greenbacks into that bond, you make them of But I was going to remark that this interchangeability cannot work the same value, thereby bringing the greenbacks up to par in gold; any such evil, in my judgment, as some members of this body antici in other words, you resumf} specie payments. pate. The Senator from Indiana thinks there would be an absorption In the first place, if it is to have that effect, I am opposed to it. of the greenba-cks into bonds. Who will put his greenbacks into bonds¥ To make a change of 10 per cent. or 12 per cent. in the value of the He only who holds the money and cannot use it so as to make a profit of greenback in twenty-two months, by the 1st of January, 1876, is more than 5 per cent. If he can use it in hi business so that it shall too sudden. It will be disastrous to the business of the country; it be worth more than that, he will retain it in his business as a wise makes too great a change in values. It adds 10 per cent. to the bur man; but when money concentra.tes, as it does at someseasonsof the den of every debt so far as the debtor is concerned, and it adds 10 year, as every Senator knows, so that it becomes a drug, there i a per cent. to the value of it so far as the creditor is concerned, while surplus that is not wanted for legitimate business at this rate of there are very few debts in the country that h ave not been contracted interest, and t.hen the holder of these notes could go to the Trea, ury upon the present value of t he greenbacks, or even when they were and take his bond. Again, suppose busines to revive, and he should of less value than they are to-day. If it is to have that effect, I am see a way in which he could use his money to a greater advantao-e opposed to it because it would be a great hardship and result in than by holding his 5 per cent. bonds ; then he would be pressed by extensive bankruptcy, great derangement, and even panic, to make his interest to go to the Treasury and take his bonds a,nd get the a change of 10 or 12 per cent. in the value of our currency in twenty greenbacks. two months. It ought to be much more gradual than that. That is Mr. MORTON. The section does not provide for that. my first argument. · :Mr. BUCKINGHil1. I say the section should be followed by tha,t My second is that if it will not have that effect, to bring the green provision, and I do not hesitate to say that, according to the best judg back up to par, then t here is no object in it; the public debt is increased ment I am able to mature on this subject, there is no other suo-gestion for no purpose. There can be no obj ect in converting a non-interest which has been made to the Senate that would so adapt it efi to the bearing debt into an interest-bearing debt if it is not to ha,ve the effect business interests of t]J.e public as that which would allow men to fund spoken of by the chairman of the committee; and if it does have that their notes into bonds ancl then to reconvert t.he bonds into currency effect, it will be disastrous, as I before remarked. according as their interests should demand. I do hope, notwithstand In the next place, I am opposed to this section because it repo es. in ing-the fears of some men on this subject, that plan may be tried; for the Secretary of the Treasurythediscretion to contract the whole green I am sure if it is not, if you adopt a policy of free banking, and with back currency. He is aut}lorized to convert all the greenbacks into it make no provision fora redemptionin anything bett.er than an ex 5 per cent. bonds, and then to pay out the notes for the public debt chan~e of notes which are of equal value, then the busine s interests in the redemption of 6 per cent. bonds, or current expenses, at his of this country are on the road to inflation and the result will be posi pleasure. If the Secretary is of opinion that bonds ought not to be tively evil. Free banking without redemption is no help to the busi bought with greenbacks when they come into the Treasury, or that ness of this nation. the current expenses of the Government ought not to be paid with Mr. THURl\1AN. l\1r. President, in the observations that I sub them, he is authorized to hold-them and thus to contract the currency mitted to the Senate a few days ago I stated my opposition to this to the amount of the whole volume of greenba,cks. It reads : section in the form in which it now stands, and gave very briefly the Ancl the Secretary of the Treasury may reissue the United St.'l.tes notes so re rea-sons why I thought it was too stringent and harsh a measure. I ceived, or, if they are canceled, may issue United States notes to the same amount, said then that if it would have the effect which the committee sun either to purchase or redeem the public debt, or to meet the cuiTent payments for posed it would have of appreciating greenbacks to gold by the lstof the public service. January, 1876, although it would be very desirable to get back to It gives to the Secretary of the Treasury the discretion to contmct specie payments, that would be too severe upon the debtor class, a.ncl the entiJ:e volume of the greenback cmTency. He may pay it out or would result in the bankruptcy, perhaps, or their failure to perform he may not, in his own discretion. The Senator from Ohio yesterday their promises, of the national banks. These 1·oa-sons the Senator said t hat he had the same discretion now. I say not. The Secretary from Indiana has repeated. But he has sugo-ested another objection to at present has discretion so far as the surplus revenue is concerned, this section that in my judgment has no force or validity whatsoever. which is now nothing. llut if there happens to be surplus revenue, He says if it becomes a law, it will be iu the power of the Secretary he may invest that in bonds or not, at his discretion, and he therefore of the Treasury to contract the volume of the currency by drawing has the discretion now a-s to the surplus revenue. We have had sur iu greenbacks and keeping them in thl'> Treasury. \Vhy, Mr. Presi plu~ in times past, we have none now, and if this policy is to be adopted dent, the Secretary of the Treasury can only pay out money in pur we shall not have any, in my opinion, for many years to come. . suance of appropriations made by law. He can pay it in no other But this section of the bill authorizes the conversion of all the green mode, for the Constitution itself forbids it, and he cn.u pay out no backs into 5 per cent. bonds, and the holding in the Treasury all the more than is appropriated; and whether he make payments in the greenbacks thus 1·eceived, so as to convert the entire volume, if you national-bank notes that are received into the Treasury or whether ploa~~e, which will have the effect to destroy all the national banks, he make payments in the greenbacks that shall be received into the .and destroy the business of tho country; because when you contract Treasury, the effect upon the volume of circulation will be precisely . the greenbacks you take them into the vaults, the banks can no longer the same. mdeem with them, they cannot get their reserves, a.nd they are com Mr. MORTON. Will m friend allow me to ask him a question 'f pelled to wind up. Mr. THURMAN. Certainly, provided it is not taken out of my ten Mr. President, this is all I have to say now. - minutes. 1874. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. 2525 The PRESIDENT p1·o ternpo1'e. It does come out of the Senator's But, 1\fr. President, I should like if the Senator from Indiana would time. · designate when, if ever, these greenbacks are to be paid in gold. He :Mr. THURMAN. Then I must beg that the Senator will move an says, and I think with him, that the 1st of January, 1876, is too soon. other amendment at some other time and put his question then. Bnt Does he mean that there shall never be a redemption If he does not, can anything be clea,rer than that'¥ How can the Secretary of the what day i.nstead of the 1st of J anuary, 1876, would he name as the Treasill'y hoard these ~eenbacks in the Trea,sUl'y if there are appro day on which the Government of the United States shall begin to priations that require .llim to pay them out'¥ If there are appropria redeem its promises¥ I should like to know that. Perhaps he will tions that require him to make payments of money out of the Treas retort by saying, "What is your plan " Why, Mr. President, we are ury, what difference does it make whether he pay out national-bank told that the Senator is in a majority on this question, and that it is notes which have been received or whether he pay out greenbacks'¥ something almost like irupertinenc.e for us in the minority even to So far as the volume of the currency is concerned, it makes no singlo suggest an amendment-- particle of differ-ence. There is therefore no contraction by the Secre The PRESIDENT pro tmnpore. The Senator's ten minutes have ex tary of the TreasUl'y caused by hoarding greenbacks in the Treasury pired. involved in this section. Mr. TH RMA.N. I believe I shall have to move an amendment, Mr. MORTON. The Senator certainly does not mean that. Will some way or other, to get to finish my sentence, when it is in order. he allow me to ask him a question f The PRESIDENT pro tempore. It is not in order now. Mr. TIWRMAN. I will. Mr. THURMA..l~. Then I shall have to wait for another time. Mr. MORTON. If $100,000,000 of greenbacks are brought to the 1\fr. FRELINGHUYSEN. Mr. President, I shall be obliged to vote Trea,sUl'y under this section of the bill, the Secretary of the Treasury for the motion to strike out this second section unles it can be amended. is bound to give 5percent. bondsforthem. Hehasthengot$100,000,000 The sect\Jn contains a provision to the effect that on the 1st of Jan of greenbacks in addition to his revenues. We will suppose that he uary, 1876, the Secretary of the Treasury shall be required to pay the has revenues enough to meet the current expenses of the Goverumen t. United States notes in gold coin, and yet in the whole bill there is no Then this bill gives him the discretion either to put this additional provision giving tho Secretary a dollar of golcl coin wherewith to pay. $100,000,000 of greenbacks into 6 per cent. .bonds, or to hold them in Such a provision does not amount to the dignity of legislation. It the TreasUl'y. If he holds them in the Treasury, as he has power to is calling upon the Secretary to make brick without straw; it is keep do, it is contraction to that amount. Will the Senator deny that'¥ ing the "promise to the ear," but "breaking it to t.he hope." l\fr. THURMAN. Suppose that to be so, that is not hoarding by The next provision is that if he cannot pay in coin ·he is to redeem the Secretary of the Treasury. the United States notes in 5 per cent. bonds. Suppo e one hnnd.red Mr. MORTON. I say he keeps them there; ho contracts to that millions of United States notes are presented and funded. That cer amount. tainly produces a serious contraction. .M.r. BUCKINGHAM. Allow me to say a single word. The Senator And how are the e notes to be again put in circnlation Y There are froin Indiana thinks it would be a contraction while the money would two methods for their circulation mentioned in the bill, but only one be in the hands of the Secretary of the Treasury. is available. One provision is that the notes may be used in paying Mr. IORTON. It would not be in circulation then. the expenses of the public se1·vice; but the provision of the sixth sec Mr. BUCKINGHAM. It would not be in circulation. That he calls tion says that nothing in the bill shall be construed to increase the taking money out of circulation. Where would it have been before f principal of the pnbhc debt of the United States; and using these If it was not wanted in business, it woultl. have been locked up in the notes which shall have once been funded would be increasing that vaults of the banks. Would it have been in circulation then¥ principal indebtedness. Hence the only possible mode of p1acing :Mr. MORTON. It might not come from banks at all; it might come these notes again in circulation is by the Secretary of the Treasury from private persons who wanted to invest in that wa.y, buying bonds; and he may buy them as fast or as tanlily as he sees l\fr. THURMAN. The Senate will see in a moment that the Sena proper; and the question of contraction or expansion in the money tor from Indiana has now shifted his objection to another portion of market is left to the discretion of one man. the section. The contraction would not result from any action of the 1\fr. MORTON. He may not buy them at all. Secretary of the Treaslll'y, as he supposed, but would result from the l\fr. FRELINGHUYSEN. He may expend all he has in bonds, or fact that greenbacks might be funded in 5 per cent. bonds. If that he may not buy them at all. Now, Mr. President, to hu.rry on, for provision is not right strike it out; but so far as the· action of the I wish not to lose my time, there should be a provision to take the Secretary of the Trea ury is concerned, so far as any volition on his place of the second section. That provision should look to the re part is concerned, which would result in a contraction of the. cur sumption of specie payments. There is no Senator or member of rency, there is nothing of it in the section. Congress who does not profess to believe resumption most desirable; Now, what is the practical common sense of this business f It is because the faith of the n::-.tion is pledged, because all would keep simply this : Suppose the effect of this section, if it become a law, the credit of the nation good abroad as well as at home, because all should be to appreciate greenbacks to the par of gold; suppose that would increase our circulating medium by introducing the gold cur should be its effect because the Government would give 5 per cent. rents of the world, because we would have a fixed and stable standard bonds equal to gold at par for its gTeenback; would that cause all of values so that business may cease to be a mere game of chance, the greenbacks to be converted into bonds¥ No, sir; no more than a because we do not wish to encourage wild speculation. For these specie-paying bank is required to pay all its notes in specie. When a reasons, thus brietly referred to, all members of Congress profess to bank pays specie, and everybody understands that it pays specie, favor there umption of specie payments. those who hold its notes make no run upon it. It is only when they How are we to attain that end' Not by possessing the Treasury . become doubtful whether it will pay specie or not that theymake a run of an amount of gold sufficient to meet dollar for dollar all om· prom upon it. So, too, when it was known that the Government would give ises. That is impossible and is aJso unnecessary, and would not effect a 5 per cent. bond equal to gold at par for the greenback, and that the result; because as soon a,s we had redeemed cll our promises, we that bond could be obtained at any time, it would not produce a run being debtors, must make new promises for constantly accruing in of greenbacks on the Treasury for 5 per cent. bonds. If they become debtedness, and tho e promises we would be under obligations again by that me::tsill'e equal to gold, and they may be used to more advan to redeem. How- are we to resume specie payments f In one w~y tage than the 5 per cent. bonds, if, in the language of the Senator from only, and that is by establishing the faith, the confidence, of the peo Connecticut, they produce a greater profit in business, nobody in his ple of the coimtry in the belief, not that we can pay specie dollar for senses. would think of demanding 5 per cent. bonds for them. dollar in a time of panic, but that we can in the regular comse of · My own opinion is that, inasmuch as the average rate of interest in business meet our promises in gold. How shall we establish that this country almost everywhere is greater than 5 per cent., if you faith and confidence were to-day to say that these greenbacks should be converted into 5 In 183 and 1839, iu 1858 and 1859, when our banks resumed, they per cent. bonds, the conversion at the Treasury would be very limited harlless than 33 per cent. of gold for their circulation, and yet with inde.ed, extre~ely limited. There are very few men who are willing that they resumed. The credit of the United States is vastly better to gtve up theu currency for a 5 per cent. bond; and the proof of it than ever was the credit of the banks; and, be ides, large amounts is that our 5 per cent. bonds are being hawked about in the European of the United States notes being requirell as a reserve for the banks market because there is no sale for them at home. No, sir; that is wonld never reach the Trea Ul'y. Thirty-three per cent. on ·400,000,000 not the danger; but. the danger, and the only danrrer of this section is $133,000,000. The receipts in gold by our Government are 180,000,000 as it now stanu , is, that you appreciate the price ~f greenbacks too a year. The expenditUl'es of the Government, in gold, counting every rapidly. I said before that if it would.have the effect that the chair thing, are $136,000,000 a year, leaving a surplus balance of gold per man of the Committee on Finance supposed it would have, it would year of $44,000,000. In three years $44,000,000 amounts to $132,000,000, be too harsh upon the debtor, and would endanger the national banks· or about as much as is necessary to give 33 per cent. on the 400,000,000 and how endanger them Y It would bring them up to specie pay: of OUl' notes. The income from OUl' mines is $73,000,000 a year, as I ments on the ·rst of January, 1876. "Would they be able to pay specie am satisfied, and admitting that $50,000,000 of that amount goes on the 1st of January, 1876, and thenceforth 'I I fear they would not· abroad, we have 23,000,000 a year remaining here. This we could and I fear, therefore, that the only result of it would be that Con~ purchase with bonds. Tb.ree times twenty-three is sixty-nine, mak ~es~ wm~ld be ap.Pealed to then to change this very law for the alle ing from this source $69,000,000, while the $132,000,000 from surplus viation of the national banks, and the prevention of the forfeiture of makes $201,000,000 in three years. Thus t.he policy of accumulating all their charters. gold by means of om smplus, and by giving the Secretary of the . These are the substantial objecti?ns to this section, and not any Treasm·y the right to purchase gold from our own mines, without 1uea whatsoever that greenbacks.will be too rapidly converted into even going abroad, would give us an accumulation which would ren 5 per cent. bonu. . · der it safe to commence specie payments. In foUl' or five years it 2526 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. MARCH 27, certainly would amount to a sufficient sum. And besides there is not and disgrace. I beg those who are in favor of this measure of increas less than one hundred and fifty millions of gold that is hoarded in the ing our cniTency to consider whether they will not incorporate into country, and this would be brought into circulation. their policy some measure, be it ever so inconsiderable, which must In order to continue specie payments I woulcl authorize the Secre ultimately, be it ever so remote, result in preserving the honor and tary of the Treasury, as he receives the United States notes which credit of this great nation. would be brought to par by their convertibility, to exchange them 1\lr. SHERMAN. l\lr. President, it is very natural for those who from time to ·time for coin at par, and thus con tautly r eplenish the have thought on a subject like this to have a pretty decided opinion Treasury in gold and prevent its exhaustion ; and to do this we should and not to desire to yield it, especially upou a vital point. Now give him the power to issue bonds for the ptuchase of gold as the I say t hat the Committee on Finance have recommenc.lecl to tho Sen market would render it wise and prudent for him to do so. ate for two succe sive years the very plan suggested. by the Sen There should be one other provision, that in case of a failme of ator from New Jersey. We have in this bill provldecl, as one means ability to redeem in coin the Secretary should be at liberty to redeem looking toward specie payments, a gradual retirement of the O"rccn in bonds. That, while it renders redemption certain, is a featme of backs. We have provided another means which, as sure as0 fate the plan I suggest which involves the possible contingency of con will bring us to the pecie standard at the time .ti.xeu. The Senato; traction. Everything else in the method of resumption looks to a says we must accumulate gold. So be it. 'Ve must provide means healt.hful expansion of our circulating medium. And if any one ob and ways by which specie pa,yments may some time be attained. o jects to the possibility of contraction from the absorption of United be it. Ample time is before us to do this. He ha wedded him elf States notes in bonds, you may omit that feature of the plan. We however, to a particular plan of doing it. He wants ns to accu~ would have gold enough for all notes that would ever be presented. mulatc gold in t~e Treasury, whic!I will lie idle in the Treasnry until :Mr. President, the Senator from Ohio asked what day sh ould be some remote perwd shall clemanclits use. He also want.· to place in fixed for the commencement of the resumption of specie p ayments. the Secretary of tho Treasury the power to sell our 6 per cent. bonds Sir, in my opinion it is fatal to r esumption to fix any day. Fix a day at par in gold to maintain specie payments at all t imes. I say that and gold will bo hoarded and the price enhanced so that you cannot that plan is impracticable; it has been voteJ down and. opposei_l, and get it, while at the same time--· scn,rcelY_ therefore ?~ght to be r;tow brought forward again. The PRESIDENT pro te1npore. The Senator's time has expired. Here IS a propos1t10n that, Wit.hout cost to tl10 Government with Mr. SHERMAN. Mr. President- - out danger, will surely and infallibly, as he admit himself b!inrr ns lli. FRELINGHUYSEN. I should like to speak about five minutes to the specie standard. Now if the time is too soon, th~t ca.:I be lopger. easily altered. All we say to the holder of the note is '·If we cannot Mr. SHERMAN. I do not wish to interrupt the Senator. now or ne:s:t year pay you your note in coin, we will give you that l\1r. CAMERON. I hope the Senator from New Jersey will be al which in the money market of the world for seventy years of our hi - lowed to go ou. tory bas been at par in coin." · Tho PRESIDENT pro tentpm·e. The Chair bas no right to stop the I do not wish to extend this argument or take a sinrrle moment of Senator. He only admonishes him that he has spoken ten minutes. time. There never has been but one point of difficnlty"'with me about Mr. CAMERON. Then I move that the Senator be allowed to speak this matter, and that wa~ as t.o the time thatshoulu b e fixed. Every five minutes longer. nation in the world, when under a suspension of specie payments has .Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I do not want over two minutes. fixed a time in order to resume; the United ~tates have done it· Mr. HAMLIN. I would not violate the rule a minute. other countries have done it; and we. ought to clo it now. I haven~ Mr. FERRY, of Echigan. Ir. President-- objection to taking the sense of the Senate as to the time when tl1is The PRESIDENT pro tempore. The Senator from Michigan. shall occur, and let each Senator express his opinion on that point . Mr. FERRY, of .Michigan. I yield to the Senator from New Jersey. But this proposition to me is a vital point in this bill, for it is the The PRESIDENT pro telnpm·e. The Chair thinks that cannot be oilly measure t~at lo?ks to or contemplates the specie standard; the done. only one that will brmg up onr notes nearer aud nearer to par with 1\lr. SHERMAN. I should like to hear the Senator from New Jersey gold; which will as inevitably as the march of t ime bring us nearer go on. and nearer to the gold standard, and which when the time arrives Mr. Al~THONY. The rule has been practically violated ; that is to will enable us to maintain pecie payments without any more contrac say, a Senator bas spoken ten minutes on a motion which he does not tion. Why, sir, the fear that the greenbacks will float in any larn·e _ intend to press. numbers for the bonds is idle. The greenbacks are held by the banks Mr. MORTON. The Senator has no right to make that statement. as part of their reserve. They are held in circulation all over the I am pressing that very motion now. country. The right to convert them at any time is a right which Mr. ANTHONY. I am mistaken, then; but I so understood. being enjoyed at any time, will always maintain them at the par of M:r. SHERMAN. Mr. President, I will give way to the Senator from the bonds. The only danger is the possible depreciation of the bonds New J ersey if he desires to go on. below the par of gold. As a matter of comse that can be but very ~lr. FRELINGHUYSEN. I should like to talk two or three min small, not more than 1 or 2 per cent. There is no real clanger in it nt utes, and I shall not trouble the Senate on this motion a,gain. ail. The whole amount that will probably be required to maintain I wa just saying that there are fatal objections to fixing any the e notes at par with the bonds or with gold would not be more day ; that if we did gold would be hoarded so that it could not be tban ten to twenty million dollars. reached; t hat there would be a hoarding of greenbacks -so as to rush As to the time, I am perfectly willing to take the sense of the Sen them on the Treasury. On the day fixed the condition of the money ate.. But for us to start now upon an increase of paper mouey, irre market might be most unpropitious for resumption ; while, if no deemable, with free banking, either on the plan proposed by the time be fixecl, the public would see the accumulation going on, busi Committee on Finance or the· plan proposed by the Senator fl·om ness would adju.."lt itself to it, and resumption would come upon this Illinois, is sure and certain depreciation, distress, panic, and bank country a.s noiselessly and as benignantly as the spring and. summer ruptcy. Thero can be no doubt of it. No na,tion ever passed thnm not object to its being inserted. It would give, perhap , a little more complained of the existence of the rail around No. 334) to remove t he political disabilities of William L. Cabell, of be a modification of that langua:ge ¥ The Senator from Ohio assures Texas. us that he believes it will, and other gentlemen have expressed the The message further announced that the Honse had concurred in -opinion that the period fixed. as the time when we are to anive at the amendment of the Senate to the !Jill (H. R. No. 1762) concerning specie payments in this section, the 1st clay of January, 1876, is the practice in territorial courts and ·appeals ther~from. too soon. I think they may dispel all their fca.rs on that point. Wo F..NROLLED BILLS SIG~ED. shall not reach specie payments by that time by any legislation that may be had. There is not _enough coin in the country- relat.iv~ly to The message also announced that the Spea"4:er of the House h a.O the amount of currency in the cotllltry to make it possible-I u e that _signed. the following enrolled bills ; and they were thereupon signed language and emphasize it-to make it possible to rea-ch specie pay by the President pro ternpm·e : A bill (H. R. No. 48.5) to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury ments on the 1st du,y of January, 1876. I concur in the views of the Senator from Ohio that this Govern to issue an American register to the schooner Carrie, of Eastport, ment is bound by every consideration that ought to bind any Gov Maine; It A bill (H. R. No. 1954) granting a pension to Henry B. Ryder; and ernment on earth to r edeem its plighted. pledge. ought to have been redeemed l~:mg ago. But when we see the tendency of things, A bill (H. R. No. 2651) reappropriatin~ certain unexpendetl bal as we have seen It in the Senate yesterday and to-clay, a disposition ances of appropriations for removal of Indians. to increa-se the volume of the currency, when and. where are we to CURRENCY A.c"{D BANKING. arrive at specie pa-yments~ The Senate, as in Committee of the Whole, resumed the consider I heard the language of one Senator, I believe the Senator fTom ation of the bill (S. No. 617) to provide for the redemption and re Vermont, [Mr. MORRILL,] yesterday, that we were about to bid fare issue of United States notes and for free banking. well to specie payinent-8. Yes, sir; we shall bid a final farewell to Tlle PRESIDENT pro tempore. The question is on the a.mendment specie payments so far as the present generation is conce1·ned if we offered by the Senator from Maine [Mr. HAMLIN] to the second sec- continue to increase- the volume of irredeemable paper currency. · tioa a The next generation may possibly arrive at specie payments, Lut so 1\fr. FERRY, of Michigan. I rise to a point of order on that. I far as the present generation is concerned, I see no hope that we shall do it under the ruling of to-day and. in order to preserve consistency. arrive at specie payments if this system of continual expansion is The PRESIDENT pro tentpore. The Chair is reminded that the pursued. Senator from ·Delaware [Mr. SAUI.SBURY] was awarded the floor and But the Senator from Ohio supposes that the provision of this bill was requested to suspend for the purpose of submitting the question which authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury to use tlle greenlJn,cks in regard to the removal of the railing. which come into the Treasury in the purchase of bonds is to brin(J' Mr. CAMERON. I ask the Senator from Delaware to give way about specie paym~nts. ·why, sir, that ha:s been the policy pursue:! until I make a mot ion to go into executive session. by the Secretary of the Treasury for the last four or ti ve yea,rs. He Mr. SAULSBURY. I yielte resumption of specie payments. have a pride that our nation will do what other nations have not done ; Mr. President, there are but two possible ways in which we· can that it will redeem in clue time, and as rapidly as po sible, the promi e resume. One measure is that suggested by the Senator from 'Viscon of the nation, whether in the form of United States notes or bank sin, [Mr. HowE,] which has not received from the Senate the atten notes. Section 2 of this bill contains the easiest, simplest, and plainest tion it deserved, which is to withdraw the United States notes from plan. I appeal to Senators who desire the more equal distribution of circulation, and permit the national ba.nks to furnish the currency, bank circulation, and who desire more paper money, not to embark ancllet them fight the gold-brokm-s, and by combination and concert in this scheme without some counteracting policy. If we must haYe of policy effect r esumption; and thus the Government would become more money, so be it. I do not fear more money. \Vhat I want is n·ee of all responsibility in the matter. The other plan is to continue good money, better money, growing better day by clay, tmtil, in the ompreseut plan of permittingthenational bankstoredeeru in United language of the act of 1869, at the earliest day pract icable it shall be States notes, and for the Government to make the United States note at par with coin, and I do upon my responsibility believe that this convert.ible into coin. P erhaps either one of t.hese two measures section has in it the germ that will bring us to that position. would be successful; but to hold that the national banks shall redeem As to the proposition of my honorahle friend from Connecticut, I only in United States notes, and that these notes need not be convert see no objection to it, although I see no occasion for it. I ha,ve no· ible, is to dispense with the precious metals, and to cast the country objection at all to saying that at all times we will give to the holder upon a wild sea of inflation and speculation. And the result is not of the 6 per cent. five-twenty bonds of the United States onr green uncert.ain. Specula,tion will follow this inflating measure; depres backs for them; but I do not think it is necessary, becanse the power sion will eventually follow speculation ; and tlten the <.,Ty for "Paper; is ve ted in the Secretary of the 'l'reasm-y to pay ont tho notes for more paper," will come, :md we will go staggering on from bog to those bonds, and it is amply sufficient to accomplish the purpose. bog, nut il we n re ca. t in the sloua;h of national