Legislative Assembly 8811 4 August 1994

THURSDAY, 4 AUGUST 1994 Review of the Camping Ground Regulation 1987 Pest Control Operations Regulation 1977 Mr SPEAKER (Hon. J. Fouras, Ashgrove) Poisons (Fumigation) Regulation 1977 read prayers and took the chair at 10 a.m. Review of the Skin Penetration Regulation 1987 REGISTER OF MEMBERS' INTERESTS Therapeutic Goods and Other Drugs Report Regulation 1982. Mr SPEAKER: Order! Honourable members, I lay upon the table of the House the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT sixth report on the Register of Members' Interests. Overseas Visit Hon. D. J. HAMILL (Ipswich—Minister for Transport and Minister Assisting the Premier on PETITIONS Economic and Trade Development) (10.02 a.m.), The Clerk announced the receipt of the by leave: I am pleased to report to Parliament on following petitions— the success Queensland has had in Indonesia as a result of participation in the Australia Today Indonesia 1994 Trade Expo and, most Adult Theme Shops importantly, the business mission to Central From Mrs Sheldon (520 signatories) Java, our sister State, which preceded it. praying that the Parliament of Queensland will Nearly 100 Queensland business legislate to ban the operation of adult theme representatives representing 54 firms and shops within a two-kilometre radius of any public organisations were in Jakarta, with many of them or private school frequented by minors. represented on the official Queensland stand. It is with pleasure that I can advise the House that Yelarbon-Texas Road contracts totalling more that $80m are expected From Mr Springborg (420 signatories) as a result of our participation, and on the advice praying that the unsealed sections of the coming to me from many of the business Yelarbon-Texas Road be upgraded to bitumen representatives concerned, that is a very as a matter of urgency. conservative estimate. Petitions received. With an economic growth rate of 6.6 per cent this year, Indonesia provides enormous trade opportunities for our State. In fact, since PAPERS December 1989, Queensland exports to The following papers were laid on the Indonesia have increased by 147 per cent, and table— this expansion will continue. Included in the financial results from Jakarta is a major cotton (a) Minister for Transport and Minister deal, strong interest from fee paying students for Assisting the Premier on Economic and enrolment at Queensland educational Trade Development (Mr Hamill)— institutions, and consulting services in Queensland Transport Report on environmental management, capital markets, Parliamentary Committee of Public Works engineering and architecture. Inquiry into the Landsborough Highway at Bond University has signed a memorandum Jessamine Creek and University Road at of understanding with Indonesia's international Townsville—July 1994 language programs, which will initially see 30 (b) Minister for Lands (Mr Smith)— Indonesian students join Bond as Annual Reports 1992-93— undergraduates, with up to 300 students a year Operations of the Land Tribunal eventually likely to be accepted. Queensland established under the Aboriginal Land Cotton Corporation signed a $5m cotton supply Act 1991 contract with PT Bitratex Industrial Corporation, which owns a cotton spinning division based in Operations of the Land Tribunal Semarang employing more than 2 000 people. In established under the Torres Strait fact, Indonesia takes about 30 per cent of Islander Land Act 1991 Queensland Cotton's annual production of (c) Minister for Health (Mr Hayward)— around 280 000 bales. Investment deals in Discussion Papers— Queensland by Indonesians introduced during 4 August 1994 8812 Legislative Assembly the promotion, now actively under consideration, technology in tropical regions, in which my total $100m, with two projects of $20m in department is an acknowledged world leader. I distribution technology and a $6m ecotourism am pleased to table the itinerary of my visit. development likely to commence within 12 months. On any basis, this has been an MINISTERIAL STATEMENT overwhelming success for Queensland and a Model Local Laws great credit to those businesses that devoted Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH their energies and resources to the exposition. (Chatsworth—Minister for Housing, Local As members of the House would know, this Government and Planning) (10.06 a.m.), by Government participates in a very successful leave: I table for the information of honourable sister State/sister province agreement with the members the first five model local laws under the province of Central Java. The recent presence in Local Government Act. Local governments have the province of our Governor gave added extremely wide powers to regulate the daily importance to the Queensland business activities of the lives of all Queenslanders. Over mission, which was at that time also visiting the the years, a large number of outdated laws have province. accumulated. I visited Central Java after Australia Today I will give honourable members some Indonesia and was pleased to meet for the first examples of what these archaic laws mean in time the new Governor of Central Java, Governor practice. In Townsville, for example, a by-law Soewardi, who indicated his strong commitment passed on 19 April 1927 regulates external work to the relationship following on from the by females, and says in part— tremendous work done by his predecessor, former Governor Ismail. I am pleased to advise "No occupier or owner of any building the House that Governor Soewardi is planning to or part of a building shall permit any female pay his first official visit to Queensland in to clean, paint, or perform any other September this year, and the invitation extended operation upon the outside of a building or to him by Her Excellency the Governor of any window thereof by standing on the Queensland to stay at Government House in outside of the windowsill or any ladder or Brisbane during that visit has been very much step . . . or unless such female is clothed in appreciated. dress appropriate to the work being performed, and of such a nature and so Queensland is highly regarded as a strong arranged as not to offend against public partner in all areas of the relationship, and the decency." closeness and maturity of that relationship is evidenced by the fact that our key business And it is still in force today. Not only is the figures, and my colleague Ministers, such as Ed language used almost incomprehensible, but, Casey, Paul Braddy and Pat Comben, who have more importantly, the notion that a local visited Central Java, are as well known in government should regulate what women do in government and business circles there as they public is no longer accepted by the community are here in Queensland. generally. During my visit, I announced a new I will give honourable members a more Queensland/Central Java Graduate Award that modern example. On 23 February 1936—well will allow graduates from Central Java to study in before many members of this House were our State for up to six months, further born—the Jericho Shire made a by-law about the underlining the opportunities in education and sale of explosives which, amongst other things, the prospect for the strengthening of our stated— bilateral relationship for the future. "Explosives not to be sold by gaslight Finally, I can report that I went on from No person shall sell explosives or other Indonesia to Singapore and Thailand for talks combustible matter by gas, candle, or other with Ministers and officials on transport related artificial light within the towns of Jericho and matters and to sign a Marine Pilot Training Agreement with the Port of Singapore Authority. Alpha unless such explosives or other If I can particularly pick out two aspects of that leg combustible matter is in hermetically sealed of the trip—firstly, the strong opportunities for tins." Queensland Rail in the sale of equipment and No doubt, in its day, that was a sensible skills to Thai Rail, based on the very high regard requirement. But in the 1990s, it is hard to see its in which Queensland Rail is held by railways in relevance. Thailand; and, secondly, I also found a strong These somewhat humorous examples of interest in its Ministry of Transport for pavement local government regulation are not isolated and I Legislative Assembly 8813 4 August 1994 do not wish to leave the House with the for a range of other local government activities, impression that it is only Townsville and Jericho including important issues such as: roads and that have outdated local legislation. There are traffic, swimming pools, advertisements, and similar examples all over Queensland. The new vegetation protection. Local Government Act of 1993 introduced major In total, models are being prepared on 17 reforms in the way local governments can topics which are of interest to most councils legislate for the good rule and government of across the State. These will be progressively their communities. An important part of improving finalised and released, with the majority of them the way local governments are able to exercise available for adoption by local governments by their wider jurisdiction is the concept of model the end of this year. The goal is to have local laws local laws. which meet the needs of local governments and The purpose of model local laws is— their communities and which work effectively in to make it easier for local governments to achieving the stated objectives. develop better regulatory regimes that are To ensure local laws are relevant to their relevant to modern conditions; communities' current needs, they are supported to provide for greater uniformity of local laws by local law policies. These policies are able to across Queensland; and ensure that particular community needs are met within the broader framework of the models. It to reduce the cost of making their laws. follows that local law policies are developed by Whenever a local government makes its own and for each local government. The State laws, there is a significant cost in terms of legal Government does not have a role in the fees and staff time. development of policies beyond providing The adoption of model local laws by local assistance in their development by issuing governments requires a simple resolution of guideline material and ensuring the procedures council. The law becomes effective when it is are relevant to current needs. notified in the Queensland Government Gazette. As required by the Act, the model local laws I While the adoption of a model is a decision for have tabled today will be published in the the discretion of each local government, the gazette on Friday, 5 August 1994. From that process has the potential to save significant date, local governments will be able to adopt amounts of money across the State if the models them as local laws. They represent significant are taken up by the majority of councils. The progress in the implementation of the reforms to model local law program has been designed to the local government system which this House assist local governments make their laws more adopted at the end of last year. I therefore relevant. When they adopt the models, they will commend them to honourable members. be able to repeal those outdated laws to which I referred earlier, know that the law meets acceptable drafting standards and that they MINISTERIAL STATEMENT reflect current general community standards. For Siam Weed those councils with limited resources, they will Hon G. N. SMITH (Townsville—Minister also save a lot of time and money. for Lands) (10.13 a.m.), by leave: I would like to The model local laws will be released in take the opportunity to report to the House on a groups as drafting is completed. The first group major campaign that has been under way for the covers a range of matters which are relevant to past two weeks in far-north Queensland the operations of the model local law system and following the discovery of the extremely noxious to the daily operation of local governments. The Siam weed. The South American plant has been model local laws I have proposed under section documented as one of the world's most 462 of the Local Government Act 1993 cover: destructive weeds and has the potential to administrative arrangements, meeting become one of the State's most costly procedures, gates and grids, animals, and agricultural and environmental threats if allowed libraries. The meeting procedures model, for to spread across the top and eastern coast of example, will enable those local governments Australia. To counter this threat, the Lands with archaic committee structures to move rapidly Department, supported by the Department of to become more effective in their operations and Primary Industries, has assembled a task force of meet their obligations under the new Local 14 officers based at Mission Beach north of Government Act. Cairns to survey and eradicate the Siam weed. To ensure that local governments obtain the To date, four infestations have been located. maximum advantage from the reform process, Two of these have been discovered in the Bingil the Department of Housing, Local Government Bay area, about 10 kilometres north of Mission and Planning is currently working on model laws 4 August 1994 8814 Legislative Assembly

Beach, one along the banks of the Tully River, therefore, could be removed at any and another on a property adjacent to the river. time? To highlight the problem, a field day was (6) Will he undertake to consult with the organised on the Tully River last week, and more Fortitude Valley Business Association than 180 landowners attended. An emergency prior to any decision to re-assign these pilot program has now begun, with seven 14 extra temporary officers back to their herbicides being trialled to minimise the impact permanent stations?" on water quality and the environment in general. Mr BRADDY: I seek leave to table my Lands will continue to survey the region, but answer and have it incorporated in Hansard. based on the four infestations at this stage my department believes it can eradicate the weed Leave granted. rather than just control it. For this reason, the 1. In my answer to the question on policing in plant has been declared as a weed which must Fortitude Valley on 17/6/94, I stated: "We be destroyed, and a submission will be made have appointed 14 additional officers to the shortly to the Australian Quarantine Inspection Valley to meet a need that we perceive Service for funding. Other measures such as exists at the moment". reviewing sand and gravel permits along the Tully 2. I emphasise the "at the moment" reference River, where the soil may be contaminated with for that need has since reduced, in no small Siam seeds, are being investigated by the part due to the work of the police in the Department of Primary Industries. Valley who have been very successful at I believe that this quick and coordinated reducing crime. response to the weed's discovery will enable the 3. For this reason, the officers have task force to eradicate the plant and effectively progressively returned to the other stations eliminate another threat before it is allowed to from which they came within the take hold in productive grazing, forestry and Metropolitan North Police Region. The last conservation areas. of the officers returned 8/7/94. 4. It was always intended that their presence in the Valley would only be for as long as QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE was necessary to address the crime at that 1. Police Staffing, Fortitude Valley time. Police advise that at the time of the Mr COOPER asked the Minister for Police extra police being seconded to the Valley, and Minister for Corrective services— there were two to three assaults or robberies per day. There are now about "With reference to his answer on 17 that number per month. June 1994 relating to the appointment of 14 5. The Assistant Commissioner, Metropolitan additional officers to the Fortitude Valley North Region, advises there has been no area— official Police survey of the nature referred (1) Are these temporary appointments? to by Mr Cooper. (2) (a) From what districts were the 14 6. Regular dialogue is maintained between the officers drawn; Police Service and the Valley Business Association and that Association as well as (b) On what date or dates did this members of the Fortitude Valley occur; and Consultative Council have been kept aware (c) What arrangements have been of policing developments in Fortitude made to guarantee that these Valley. districts have not suffered any 7. It is also worth noting some of the other effective loss of policing? policing initiatives put in place in the Valley (3) When will any decision be made as to area: whether these additional appointments an effective doubling of police will be permanent? numbers in the Fortitude Valley area (4) Has a survey of police regions shown since the election of the Goss Labor that the Fortitude Valley area is the only Government with approximately the area which requires additional police on same number of officers patrolling an social security benefit payment days? area half the size of the old division which covered the entire North (5) Are Fortitude Valley business Brisbane area; operators aware that the additional police presence is only temporary and, a refurbished Fortitude Valley Police Legislative Assembly 8815 4 August 1994

Station completed in July 1993 at a region for its legitimate response to information cost of $690,000; about possible fauna offences. a Police Shopfront in Brunswick I will now answer the questions that the Street to ensure a permanent police member asked yesterday. presence in the Valley heart; (1) This was a police exercise, and the the use of the Public Safety question should be directed to the Response Team and mounted patrols Minister for Police. to assist Fortitude Valley police when (2) This is a question which should be required; directed to the Minister for Police. the police are able to use safety (3) There were a number of agencies monitoring cameras installed by the involved, and information about their Brisbane City Council in March as an extension of the CitySafe Program. involvement should be directed in a question to the Minister for Police. Of 8. The above information shows that this the Department of Environment and Government is acting responsibly to Heritage officers involved, there was an ensure an adequate police presence is acting senior investigations officer, a maintained in the Fortitude Valley area. temporary investigations officer and a regional survey officer, all from Cairns, 2. Shelburne Bay Property, and a ranger from Iron Range National Search for Crocodile Park. Mr SLACK asked the Minister for (4) This is a question which should be Environment and Heritage— directed to the Minister for Police. "With reference to the recent raid by (5) As the member for Burnett is aware officers of her department on a property at from a telephone call that he made to Shelburne Bay, in search of a crocodile the ranger's house yesterday, the which proved to be a wooden crocodile— ranger and his wife were on leave at the time of the police operation. For the (1) Who ordered this raid? information of the member for Burnett, I (2) Who was in charge of the raid? point out that the Nature Conservation (3) How many people, and from what Act will list the saltwater crocodile as a departments, originating from what vulnerable species in Queensland. My destinations, made the raid? department has been concerned for some time at indications of illegal taking (4) Did the officers identify themselves or of crocodiles from Cape York. My claim to be police officers? department had an obligation to (5) Was the ranger at Heathlands National investigate the information it was given Park, who would know the Spencers, about the possibility of a crocodile or contacted prior to the raid in an effort to crocodile products in the possession establish the likelihood of the people of the Spencers. having a live crocodile, and for other (6) This is a question which should be background information? directed to the Minister for Police. (6) At what hour, and on what date, was the raid made? (7) There were a number of agencies involved and information about this (7) Were any officers armed? issue should be directed in a question (8) Did they have a warrant? to the Minister for Police. None of the (9) What other operations, if any, were four Department of Environment and conducted on the trip? Heritage officers were armed. At this point, I would just like to quote from an (10) What was the cost of the entire article in the Maryborough/Hervey Bay exercise?" Chronicle today which mentions the Ms ROBSON: In the past 12 months, the fact that Doug Slack said that a family member for Burnett has been in the media and in lived in peaceful isolation in Shelburne this Parliament criticising—without foundation, I Bay near the tip of Cape York might add—the enforcement regime of my Peninsula when that peace was department's far-northern region, particularly in shattered by a dawn raid by officers relation to the smuggling of fauna and flora. The brandishing shotguns. Now, the Cairns member has now come out attacking that same Post had a response to that. 4 August 1994 8816 Legislative Assembly

Mr SLACK: I rise to a point of order. I did Mr SLACK asked the Minister for not say "brandishing shotguns". That is not Environment and Heritage— correct. The Minister is misleading the House. At "(1) What is the budget, by region, for the no stage have I made a claim of brandishing direct management of national parks in shotguns. This is a joke. Queensland Ð exclusive of salaries, Ms ROBSON: I will just quote a response wages, and related payments? in today's Cairns Post from Inspector Gary Hanlon (2) What is the budget, by region, for fire of Cairns police. He confirmed that the raid had prevention and control?" occurred at the Spencer's family home at 6.37 a.m. on 2 July, but said no firearms had been Ms ROBSON: In answer to question 3, used. He said that only one of the three police part (1)—the non-labour budget appropriations officers involved, including two officers from within the National Parks and Wildlife sub- Weipa and one from Lockhart River, had even program for 1994-95 are: far-northern region, carried a firearm, and this was a service revolver $487,100; northern region, $452,056; central hidden in an ankle holster. I seek leave to table coast region, $217,498; south-western region, these articles. $753,258; and south-eastern region, $538,059. These appropriations are yet to be confirmed, as Leave granted. some very minor adjustments are still being Ms ROBSON: I will now answer the rest of negotiated across the regions. The above the member's question. figures allow for some costs incurred at off-park (8) This is a question which should be locations, for example, by district rangers at a directed to the Minister for Police. district office whose operations are directed to the management of the national park estate. (9) There were a number of agencies involved and information about their In answer to part (2)—when the member for other operations should be directed in Burnett asked this question during the hearings a question to the Minister for Police. of Estimates Committee D, he likened the For the Department of Environment budget for the Department of Environment and and Heritage officers, other operations Heritage, which is in the hundreds of millions, to and issues included: liaison with Laura the budget he prepared for his farm. I can assure police; inspection of breeding areas for the member for Burnett and the House that I do the endangered golden-shouldered not run my department in the way that Mr Slack parrot; follow-up inquiries on Operation runs his farm. Red Tail, which had already resulted in Mr Horan interjected. the laying of charges against two Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member persons for the taking of protected for Toowoomba South under Standing Order fauna; patrols of Lakefield National 123A. I am going to have quiet. Park—it had been intended to continue investigation in relation to the Ms ROBSON: As advised in my response unlawful lighting of fires and other to the member's second question on notice issues, however, the park ranger was before the Estimates Committee D, matters such unexpectedly delayed and these as fire prevention and control are not shown as a investigations did not eventuate; line item within each regional budget. However, collection of valuable intelligence to reiterate, approximately $1.5m is expended regarding certain activities and possible annually on fire prevention, with an extra fauna offences; and provision of $500,000 on upgrading firebreaks, etc. These information to departmental figures include labour costs. management staff relevant to park management. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE (10) There were a number of agencies Privatisation of Suncorp involved and information about their costs should be directed in a question Mr BORBIDGE: In directing a question to to the Minister for Police. For the the Treasurer, I refer to comments by the Minister Department of Environment and for Tourism, Sport and Racing in his role as the Heritage officers, the break up of costs State President of the ALP that the Government was: salaries, $441.70; overtime, will reconsider the privatisation of Suncorp. I ask: $292.10; travel allowance, $1,086; given the Treasurer's clear and repeated petrol, tyres and photography, $200. opposition to privatisation, does he support his party president's stated position in favour of a reconsideration of the privatisation of Suncorp? 3. National Parks, Budget Legislative Assembly 8817 4 August 1994

Mr De LACY: I thank the Leader of the Mr PITT: In directing a question to the Opposition for the question because I think it is Premier, I refer to the announced retirement of important that it is answered. State Cabinet has two of the Government's Ministers. I ask: is the made a decision about the future of Suncorp. It Premier aware of the call for these two Ministers will not be sold, it will be retained in public to move to the back bench prior to the next ownership. The comments attributed to the election and what is the Premier's response to Minister for Tourism, Sport and Racing in his this call? capacity as President of the Labor Party were Mr W. K. GOSS: I have heard the attacks simply that he has, as President of the Labor from the Leader of the Opposition to the effect Party and as an individual, no philosophical that those Ministers should go immediately. But objection to the sale of entities such as Suncorp, who pays any attention to the Leader of the and this is in the context of the overall debate Opposition any more? He would attack Santa which is going on in the Labor Party on the issue Claus if he thought he could score a political of privatisation. point from it. If the Leader of the Opposition Mr Borbidge interjected. thought it was an important enough issue to Mr De LACY: No, he is entitled to have a seek coverage on the front page of the Courier- personal opinion, a philosophical opinion. I Mail, I thought that, as the alternative Premier, happen to have a philosophical opinion on the Leader of the Opposition would come in issues such as that as well. He still sticks with the here this morning and challenge the Premier on Cabinet position. He did not say that Cabinet the issue. But, no, here we are once again in would be revisiting it or that the Government question time, and the Leader of the Opposition would revisit it or ought to revisit it. has his head down pretending to read something. An Opposition member interjected. I decided that, as the Leader of the Mr De LACY: I am telling the honourable Opposition obviously had such important priority member. All he simply said was that there is no issues to raise by way of questions to other philosophical reason for the Government to Ministers, I would arrange to have his question retain Suncorp. However, Cabinet made its asked for him. I thank the Government Whip for decision not on philosophical grounds, we made taking up the challenge of asking the question our decision based on what was best for that the Leader of the Opposition would not ask. Queensland from a financial point of view. That decision has been made. There is no reason for The situation that obtains in relation to this the Government to revisit that decision, nor will particular matter is simply this: with most we be revisiting that decision. Governments—and certainly with this Government—we take the approach that every couple of years there will be, and there should Eastern Corridor be, some new blood and some new energy that Mr BORBIDGE: In directing a question to comes into the Cabinet. That is what has the Minister for Environment and Heritage, I refer happened in the past with Mr Warburton, Mr to comments in this place yesterday by her Vaughan and Mr McLean. That is what has colleagues the members for Redlands and happened on this occasion with Mr Comben and Mansfield in opposition to any option in relation Ms Warner. to the proposed eastern tollway. I refer also to a The situation is an interesting contrast, petition from the member for Burnett today from because we have got new blood and new talent 10 000 residents of affected areas—I presume to bring on. Look at what the Opposition has: the the Minister will call it rent-a-pen—opposing the member for Keppel, the member for Nicklin, and road. I ask: which eastern tollway option does the good old Gympie and Cunningham! Look at Minister support? them all bristling with talent! What happens in our Ms ROBSON: Over the last five years, and show is that Ministers such as Mr Warburton, Mr even prior to that, I have repeatedly said that I do Vaughan and Mr McLean, and now Ms Warner not support any incursion into the koala habitat and Mr Comben, give 110 per cent; but when that Logan and Redlands share, nor do I support they think the time is right to go, what do they any road option which will cause that sort of do? They say, "I think the time is right to go. I am devastation or which will infringe adversely on going to go. I am going to make way for some the lifestyle of my constituents. I repeat those new blood." What happens in the National and claims. I have repeated them to my electorate Liberal Parties? They do not make way. They sit and I will continue to repeat them. on the front bench and gather cobwebs. Look at them—cobwebbed! The very same thing happens in any Retirement of Ministers number of occupations. Chief executives of 4 August 1994 8818 Legislative Assembly major companies indicate that they will be retiring and I ask: is the Minister aware of other groups in at the end of the year or the following year. the community which support this approach for Schoolteachers say that they will be retiring the the efficient use of health resources? following year. The point is that people have a Mr HAYWARD: The member raises a very continuing contribution to make, and while they important question, not just because it highlights feel they have a contribution to make they an initiative that is being pursued by the should be entitled to continue. Government to provide a better service for public The Leader of the Opposition also made a patients but because it also shows very clearly claim to which I would like to confess today. He and highlights the policy vacuum of members made the claim that this was part of a deal; that opposite. It goes to show what has been said in the Labor Party was trying to reach an agreement this place before on other policy issues—the on who would be our candidates in the Labor- continual flip-flop position that the Opposition held seats. I admit it: it is true! We have had a has on policy and how it changes that policy mature, rational discussion, and we have agreed almost on a day-to-day basis. that the people in this Chamber will be the Everyone in this House would be aware of candidates in the Labor-held seats. I believe that what the shadow Health Minister, the member for is sensible. We know who our candidate will be in Toowoomba South, said when the issue of the Redlands at the next election. Does the Opposition know who its candidate will be? We Commonwealth's offer to fund the contracting of know who our candidate will be in Barron River. public patients in private hospitals for the We know who our candidate will be in Albert. provision of certain services for which there were Who will the Opposition's candidate be in Albert? lengthy waiting times was first raised in this Will it be a National or a Liberal? Whereas we have Parliament. The member not only embraced that, reached agreement, the National and Liberal he said that we should double it. He said that we Parties are still fighting over who their candidates should fund it and match the money. But guess will be in Labor-held seats. I suggest that they what happened. Two days later, the Australian Medical Association said, "No, we oppose it." fight on. What happened to the shadow Health Minister? The fact that the Government Whip has to Flip-flop back again, he opposed it! ask this question highlights the biggest single problem when it comes to new blood and new Mr W. K. Goss: Hardly leadership energy in the Opposition ranks. The member for material. Toowoomba South and the member for Gregory Mr HAYWARD: As the Premier says, that are running around telling people that they will is hardly leadership material. It is also very be the leadership team by the end of the year. consistent with the present Leader of the But they do not know how to do it. I have been Opposition. Where does the Liberal Party stand asking everybody what the problem is with on this policy? Here we have a flip-flop back getting some new energy and some new towards the Liberal Party. The member for leadership over there. I have found out the Toowoomba South certainly does not speak for problem. I am told that a number of National Party his coalition colleagues when he talks like that members had a meeting to work out what the and accepts what the Australian Medical problem was in making the changeover, and they Association says. I refer to the 1992 policy under worked out that the problem is that, in the the heading "Health and Patient Care Policy". National Party, they have three kinds of Mr Horan: We've scrapped that; it's a members: those who can count and those who coalition policy now. cannot. Mr HAYWARD: The honourable member Mr Cooper interjected. says that is no longer coalition policy. Recently, Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for when Mrs Sheldon was talking on the radio about Crows Nest! roads and where they should be constructed, she said, "So far as we are concerned, the 1992 Mr Bennett interjected. Liberal Party policy on roads is still the policy." Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Yet the shadow Health Minister has just said that for Gladstone under Standing Order 123A. that is not coalition policy. Where do Opposition members stand on roads? Are they flip-flopping around on that issue as well? Where does it end? Public Patients in Private Hospitals Let me refer to the Liberal Party policy. It states— Mr PITT: In directing a question to the "As financial resources become Minister for Health, I refer to the Minister's available, contracts will be entered into with continued advocacy of contracting private private hospitals to operate on public hospitals to provide services for public patients, patients." Legislative Assembly 8819 4 August 1994

It goes further than that. It then gives an Mrs SHELDON: I will repeat the question. example. It states— I refer to the Native Title (Queensland) Act, "For example, in the cardiac surgery passed by the Legislative Assembly on 10 area, approximately three additional cardiac December last year. During the passage of the public patients per week could be operated Bill, the Premier indicated that it would not be upon at existing private hospitals." proclaimed until aspects of the overriding Commonwealth Act were clarified. Given that all Firstly, we have the support—if I am correct on but the first two sections of the Queensland Act this—of the shadow Health Minister as he flip- have not yet been proclaimed and it remains flops in and supports it. Then he changes it inactive, I ask: will the Minister amend the because the AMA says to change it. Then he Queensland Act and, if so, when? rides roughshod over what we were told the other morning was current Liberal Party policy. Mr SMITH: The answer is: yes. We will But it gets more confusing—if that is possible. make an amendment to the Act. That has been indicated quite freely. The question of Just when I thought that the shadow Health negotiating certain aspects with the Federal Minister had worked out that he had decided that Government—that will occur in the relatively near he was opposing this policy, what did he do in future. The Bill will then be brought to the House the Parliament the day before yesterday? He with the appropriate amendments to make the started to talk about dental care, in relation to legislation operative. which he is fully supportive of contracting with the private sector to address waiting lists for Mr Borbidge: What year? public dental patients. Here we have the policy Mr SMITH: It will be brought in soon—at an flip-flop yet again. Why is it okay for the State appropriate time. Government to contract with private providers to Australian Chamber of Manufacturers meet public dental care, but it is not all right to do Survey the same thing for medical treatment? I will tell you why it is okay, according to him—the Mr LIVINGSTONE: In directing my Australian Medical Association tells him not to do question to the Premier, I refer him to the report it. The member does not show any responsibility issued yesterday by the Australian Chamber of to the people of Queensland. Manufacturers on trends in manufacturing among the States. Can the Premier inform the House what this respected survey says about Sex Shops near Schools the prospects of investment, sales and Mrs SHELDON: I ask the Minister for employment in this sector? Education: does he believe that it is appropriate Mr W. K. GOSS: I think that all members for adult sex shops to be situated within close who are concerned to see strong growth in the proximity of a school? If not, what will he do to economy in Australia and in Queensland would ensure that the Queensland Government have been heartened by the statement issued prevents such situations occurring? by the Australian Chamber of Manufacturers Mr COMBEN: I do not think that it is yesterday, headed "State Manufacturing Trends appropriate to have sex shops close to schools. Very Positive". I think it heralds strong economic We will do the same as we have done with bottle recovery right around the country. Certainly, that shops close to schools in Toowoomba. I will give is to be welcomed. What is particularly welcomed every support to the department and the local P is the reference in the report to— & C and school community to do whatever is "September quarter expectations are legal to oppose such a move. very strong with companies expecting to maintain or improve production levels totalling:" Native Title (Queensland) Act That organisation then goes through the Mrs SHELDON: In directing a question to percentage responses from the various States. the Minister for Lands, I refer him to the Native The top result for all States came from Title (Queensland) Act, passed by the Queensland—94 per cent. The survey showed Legislative Assembly on 10 December last year. 89 per cent in Tasmania; 86 per cent in Victoria; Mrs Edmond interjected. and our nearest neighbour, New South Wales, Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member 81 per cent. All in all, they are pretty positive for Mount Coot-tha under Standing Order 123A. responses. But the best response came from Honourable members, I am not going to allow Queensland. The key issues reported in this interjections while questions are being asked. document include—and I refer to the "Key Issues" section of the paper— 4 August 1994 8820 Legislative Assembly

"Generally favourable trading against section 5 of the Lang Park Trust Act. The conditions were reported by Queensland reality is that it will simply not be allowed to manufacturers over the June quarter with happen. improvements in production . . . sales . . . and forward order . . . activity." Impact on Pastoral Leases of Native It also points out— Title Claims "Underscoring the vigorous demand Mr LINGARD: I direct my question to the conditions employment . . . and overtime . . . Minister for Lands. I refer to the fact that the levels . . ." national Native Title Tribunal has accepted claims also both increased in Queensland. It also covered by pastoral leases, in contradiction of states— the Premier's repeated assurances that such "Profit positions improved . . . despite claims could not be lodged because a properly higher raw material costs . . . and depressed issued pastoral lease had, in his infallible view, selling prices." extinguished all native title. So, despite some difficulties, the profit positions I refer the Minister to the Commonwealth's of manufacturers in this State improved. The Native Title Act 1993 which precludes, as a report states further— permissible future act, any expansion of a proprietary interest in land which might be "New investment activity was subject to native title. I ask: what is the impact of robust . . ." the circumstances on the freeholding of pastoral Overall, the outlook for the next quarter, the leases? September quarter, suggests, according to the Mr SMITH: First of all, I make the point that chamber— the national Native Title Tribunal advises that it is ". . . a further strengthening in domestic compelled to accept applications from native title demand conditions, a modest recovery in claimants over pastoral leases because in Mabo export activity and limited employment judgment No. 2 only three judges indicated that growth." a grant of a pastoral lease per se extinguished In other words, this Government is achieving native title. But the national Native Title Tribunal what it said it would set out to achieve: namely, also advises that, once there has been a try to maintain the traditional strengths of the definitive decision—and it does not necessarily Queensland economy in mining, agriculture and have to be a High Court case—that pastoral tourism, but also seek diversity in other areas. leases extinguish native title, then the national Under the portfolio of Business, Industry and Native Title Tribunal will no longer accept claimant Regional Development, we have been running a applications over pastoral leases. very positive, aggressive policy in terms of The tribunal also issues draft guidelines increasing manufacturing activity in this State. concerning the acceptance of claims over The figures from the chamber and independent freehold and leasehold land which provide that it sources are verifying the fact that Queensland is will no longer accept claims over land that has going very well indeed and very well in been the subject of a lease which confers comparison with all other States when it comes to exclusive possession. In Queensland—I repeat manufacturing activity. "in Queensland"—that should include pastoral leases. The Queensland Government is intending to make a submission stating its Lang Park Trustee State of Origin Ticket preferences in relation to these guidelines. Price Existing pastoral leases held by indigenous Mr LIVINGSTONE: In directing a people may be reverted to native title under question to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and section 47 (2) of the Native Title Act. Racing, I refer him to the front-page story in My department has ascertained that today's Courier-Mail, headlined "Origin Seats $3 presently pastoral leases that are held by the for Trustees". Can the Minister inform the House Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission as to what action he intends to take in regard to for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander this matter? corporations represent 0.5 per cent of Mr GIBBS: The reality is that this matter Queensland's land area. In short, our advice was brought to my attention yesterday. I stands. It will take one case to formally establish immediately sought advice on it. The advice the position that leases over grazing land will simply is that for members of the Lang Park Trust protect that land from further claim. to do that would be an abrogation of their responsibilities as trustees. It would also be Contaminated Land, Cairns Legislative Assembly 8821 4 August 1994

Mr LINGARD: I direct my question to the is being developed on site at present. Members Minister for Environment and Heritage. I refer to should be aware that that new terminal should the purchase by Coles Myer of the old railway open for air traffic late next year. yards site in Cairns for redevelopment and the The other proposed link is an airfreight link. recent stoppage of work on the project due to The FAC proposes that in future there ought to contamination of the land. As it is now estimated be a loop off the Pinkenba line for the facilitation that it will cost between $500,000 and $1m to of air cargo container movements in and out of sanitise that land, I ask: was the cost of cleaning the new airfreight terminal that will be developed up this site allowed for in the purchase price or is where the existing international terminal is it not the case, as the Minister has indicated located. previously, that the responsibility for clean-up of contaminated sites rests with the previous owner In 1981, the former Government made a under the polluter-pays principle—in this case, decision that a future passenger rail link to the Queensland Government? Brisbane Airport should be developed and accessed from the North Coast Line near Ms ROBSON: I thank the honourable Toombul Shopping Centre. The corridor for that member for the question, but given that I would line lies between the existing east-west arterial need to check the facts that he has presented as and Schulz Canal. Those plans are still on foot. an assumption for that question, I ask that it be The development of those links are very much put on notice. dependent upon the development of the airport Mr Lingard: I do so accordingly. terminal by the FAC. Mr SPEAKER: That question is placed on As to the second part of the honourable notice. member's question—the FAC projects a significant increase in air traffic in Brisbane. Consequently, there will be a substantial Brisbane Airport Rail Link increase in passenger and traffic demand Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: I ask the Minister for associated with the airport development. I have Transport: can he advise the House what been receiving quite a lot of correspondence provisions have been made for the development concerning traffic needs in the area. In fact, I of a rail link to service the needs of freight and think that one particular letter warrants passengers to Brisbane Airport? Will the consideration by this House. The letter development of this link obviate the need for the concerns— expansion of the road network to the airport? " . . . accidents occurring and dangerous Mr HAMILL: I hope that the Leader of the situations which exist along the whole Opposition took some light reading to bed with length of Kingsford Smith Drive." him last night because, yesterday, I tabled 32 People would know that a lot of industrial separate documents in Parliament. Those traffic and airport traffic makes its way along documents are on the public record and they Kingsford Smith Drive. The letters states detail the transportation needs of south-east further— Queensland. "I acknowledge that it is a fact of life that Because the Leader of the Opposition is the heavily populated residential areas of not a particularly avid reader, I thought that I Hamilton, Clayfield, Ascot and Whinstanes would bring another document with me today. I are close to the industrial areas of Eagle refer honourable members to this report, which Farm, Pinkenba and Myrtle Town." has been around since 1991. Even the slower readers would have had a chance to look at it by It goes on to state— now. It is the strategic plan for Brisbane Airport "I strongly recommend that you ask from the Federal Airports Corporation. I your Department to work towards commend it to the attention of members. In the developing a strategy which will help resolve report is a detailed discussion about the future the problems associated with the major infrastructure needs of the airport, particularly thoroughfare." figure 10.3, which shows very clearly the future Similar correspondence has come to me expansion plans of Brisbane Airport. concerning Nudgee Road and Sandgate Road. The FAC considers that there needs to be The author of all that correspondence is none not one, but two rail links developed in the future other than the member for Clayfield, who has to Brisbane Airport, and those links are shown repeatedly expressed his concerns about road very clearly on that strategic plan. The first of safety and the need to address serious traffic those proposed links is to handle future problems in the area. passenger movements with a station to be located in close proximity to the new terminal that 4 August 1994 8822 Legislative Assembly

Last night, I was discussing this very issue President of the Liberal Party in Queensland—a with a member of one of the local action groups. man who has his hand out and who is taking from He said to me, "Our concern is that no-one has the owners of sex shops the profits that are put a case publicly for action on the local roads." being made in a place where young kids walk That case is here, and it has been put by none past every day. Once it is one removed, the other than the member for Clayfield. When the Liberal Party does not mind taking the money. member for Clayfield pens these letters Workers' Compensation Payments for repeatedly making representations on road TAFE Employees safety, and then parades around the community as the steadfast opponent of any measure to try Mr SANTORO: I ask the Minister for to address the traffic problems that exist in the Employment, Training and Industrial Relations: area, he stands exposed as the hypocrite he is. are public servants on stress leave, particularly Even members of the Liberal Party say that they within the TAFE system, being provided with can tell when Mr Santoro is not telling the truth. workers' compensation payments rather than They say that it is when his lips start moving. sick leave payments? Mr FOLEY: The eligibility of public servants, whether they are in TAFE or Sex Shops elsewhere, is along the same lines as the Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: I ask the Minister for eligibility of other workers. If the worker is Housing, Local Government and Planning: can suffering from a disease or injury that arises he advise the House what ability, if any, local during the course of the employment, then he or governments have to control the establishment she will be entitled to workers' compensation. and location of so-called sex shops? The honourable member refers to the issue Mr MACKENROTH: In answer to the of stress, and I thank him for drawing that to the honourable member's question, firstly let me say attention of the House. Frankly, over the last that the Government and I oppose sex shops couple of years the Workers Compensation being established across the road from schools. Board has become quite concerned about the Under the current Act, local authorities have the escalation in the number of stress claims ability to control sex shops operating within their throughout industry. As a result, the Workers own local government areas. Compensation Board has conducted seminars This morning, I spoke about local laws. throughout the length and breadth of the State Under the Local Government Act, local in order to address that very issue. governments have a great ability to use local laws I have had the honour of speaking at a to control the establishment of shops such as number of those seminars and I have had sex shops within their areas. The Government discussions with employers, trade unionists and has given local authorities the ability to control employees who are concerned to address the what happens within their areas. issue of stress by ensuring, firstly, that adequate However, I think that this is a broader issue. mechanisms are in place to detect signs of stress The corporations of this State have to take a in the workplace and then to address it. greater responsibility. For example, the member Secondly, the honourable member should be for Inala has raised the issue with me that the aware that the definition of "injury" is one of the company, Maembe Pty Ltd, which owns the Inala issues that is listed in the miscellaneous issues Plaza Shopping Centre—a family shopping discussion paper issued by the Workers centre—has allowed a shop within that shopping Compensation Board for public comment and centre to be rented to an organisation called discussion. Mystique Lingerie and Adult Products. Certainly, This issue of stress claims in workers' once that is done, obviously the owner would compensation is not an easy one. It is one which know that in his family shopping centre he is is presenting real problems for management allowing an adult sex shop to operate. Those throughout Australia. However, it is important corporations have to take a greater responsibility that employers recognise their duty of care with for what they allow to happen. respect to this matter and ensure that provisions Mrs Sheldon interjected. are put in place for early detection so that these problems can be prevented, thus avoiding the Mr MACKENROTH: Does the unnecessary cost and expenditure that arises honourable member believe that corporations out of such claims. should do the same thing? Companies such as Maembe are making profits in family shopping centres. Obviously, Mr Quinn, the member for Urban Transport Merrimac, is advising Mrs Sheldon that the owner Mr BARTON: I ask the Minister for of Maembe is none other than Bob Tucker, the Transport: is he aware of an article that appeared Legislative Assembly 8823 4 August 1994 in today's Courier-Mail which stated that new couple of facts were put on the record. If all of major roads would make Brisbane a city without those major bypass road proposals that have soul and, if so, could he advise the House of the been canvassed publicly over the past few true situation with new major roads and public weeks were added to our major arterial road transport in south-east Queensland? network in south-east Queensland, we would Mr HAMILL: I was very interested to read end up with 183 kilometres of motorway. That is the article with comments attributed to Michael hardly on a par with Los Angeles. Over the same Colle, the Chairman of the Toronto Transit area, Los Angeles has 3 500 kilometres of Commission. In that article, Mr Colle was highway. So much for the Los Angelisation of commenting on the experience of Toronto with south-east Queensland! What we need is an respect to urban transport. Interestingly, he effective road network and a more effective stated that in 1975, Toronto's people forced the public transport system. This Government is Government to back down on a proposal for an determined to provide it for the people of eight-lane freeway through the metropolis' six south-east Queensland. cities. I can understand that; I do not like the idea of eight-lane freeways, either, although I do note Youth Unemployment that this week that is the preferred position for some members of the coalition in relation to Mr BARTON: I direct a question to the transport issues on the Pacific Highway. Minister for Employment, Training and Industrial Relations. Youth unemployment is unacceptably Mr Colle also mentioned in this article that at high in Queensland and is a particular issue in my that time Toronto had the world's widest electorate of Waterford. I ask: could the Minister freeway—a 16-lane freeway. What an appalling outline the latest project backed by the State prospect! I agree with Mr Colle. That sort of Government to assist young job seekers on unbridled road development is transport Brisbane's south side. planning gone very, very wrong indeed. However, that is exactly the course of action that Mr FOLEY: The Goss Government is the Opposition in this place would see us backing a project at Eagleby that is designed to undertake to address transport needs in give long-term unemployed young people a south-east Queensland. taste of the motor industry and then place them into jobs. I thank the member for Waterford for Yesterday, in the House I indicated that the accompanying me the other day to Eagleby to Government's transport strategy is three-fold; inspect this training centre. It is an initiative that is that is, bypass roads, a very strong commitment being run by one of Queensland's 22 group to urban public transport and a massive training companies, namely, the Industry and investment in our urban rail network. This is in Commerce Employment and Training Group. line with what Mr Colle was saying was Toronto's The State Government is backing it with a grant solution—that is, the development of its urban of some $60,000. It is also supported by the rail network. We have a very strong commitment Commonwealth Government to the tune of to the reform of other urban public transport. We $159,000, with that group training scheme are doing that through our passenger transport committing $34,000 of its own money. reforms with respect to buses. We are also addressing the issue of demand management. In short, it gives unemployed young people a seven-week broad based training course, I note that Toronto is doing very well—and including two weeks of work experience. The certainly much better than other Australian first group of 28 students started on Monday, 25 cities—with respect to public transport usage. July. Having spoken to a number of these young What Toronto has—and Brisbane does not people, I was very impressed with their have—is a comprehensive outer ring-road determination— notwithstanding the difficulties system. Toronto has put in place that ring-road they have had in finding work—to do something system to channel traffic away from the suburban positive with the opportunity that they were and inner urban areas. It has put its emphasis on experiencing through this course. I am pleased the development of urban public transport within to say that this group training company is that ring-road system. That is exactly the strategy targeting areas of high unemployment on the that I have been advocating for Brisbane and south side—areas such as Kingston, south-east Queensland—a strong commitment Woodridge, Inala, Richlands and West End. to urban public transport, but also a strong commitment to those bypass routes. The funding from the State Government is in two instalments, with the second $30,000 A lot of dishonesty has been peddled in this conditional upon 25 young people being placed debate. Some people have run ads on television in jobs. That is just part of the $18.9m that the talking about the "Los Angelisation" of State Government will spend in 1994-95 on the south-east Queensland. It is about time that a State's apprenticeship and traineeship system. It 4 August 1994 8824 Legislative Assembly is part of this Government's budgetary Burnett River traffic bridge project in my commitments to employment and training, electorate and, if so, could he advise the House boosted, I might say, very significantly by the of where the project is at and when it is expected Goss Government's $150m Jobs Plan, which to be completed? was made possible by the vote of the Mr W. K. Goss: Bundaberg. Queensland people in giving us that mandate in 1992. Mr HAMILL: The Honourable the Premier suggests that the project is at Bundaberg, and I agree with him. That is a very important project Automated Titling System indeed, and one that has been long awaited by Mr CAMPBELL: I ask the Minister for the people of Bundaberg. Lands: will he advise the House whether there Mr W. K. Goss: Promised three times by has been any significant downturn of the the National Party. computer system which forms an integral part of the new automated titling system, and is it true Mr HAMILL: It was promised only three that there is a backlog of 80 000 titles? times by the National Party! At least the National Party never lost sight of the project; it just never Mr SMITH: I thank the honourable member got around to doing anything about it. It is a very for that question. It is certainly true that the important project. In excess of $20m has been member for Clayfield knows no shame. Only a committed by this Government to delivering this few months ago, the member was running very significant enhancement to the around the place talking about a backlog of transportation system and the road network of 40 000 titles. He put out countless press the City of Bundaberg. It is particularly important releases. I think he got one or two up, so he for people in north Bundaberg. With the old thought that, if he doubled the number, he might bridge and the old road link, there was always a get a better run. danger of isolation for the residents of north Mr Santoro: It's true. Bundaberg. The new high-level connection will Mr SMITH: We will see how he goes. For overcome that problem. I believe that it will the honourable member's information, I will provide a real stimulus for the expansion of the quote some figures. The ATS has been running City of Bundaberg to the north side of the for a little over two months now. For the month of Burnett River. June, the availability factor in percentage terms The progress on the bridge has been very was 97.1 per cent. In July, the availability was good indeed. In fact, we expect that it will be 98.8 per cent. ready for traffic either at the end of this year or Mr Santoro interjected. very early in 1995. I compliment the work of the contractors. They have been very diligent in their Mr Littleproud interjected. task. I know that there is great anticipation in Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member Bundaberg for the opening of this very for Clayfield and the member for Western Downs. significant enhancement to the city. Mr SMITH: This week, there was a significant failure on two occasions. Also—and wait for this—the second failure lasted for two Hyperbaric Unit, Brisbane hours. But what members opposite should be Mr HORAN: I direct a question to the aware of is that, in spite of that failure for two Minister for Health. As Brisbane is the only capital hours, more titles were registered during that day city in Australia without a hyperbaric unit, than were received—in other words, with less necessitating divers with decompression illness than the full time available we were more than to be flown to Townsville or Sydney, and as a able to meet the demand on that day. hyperbaric unit is also essential for the treatment Mr Santoro interjected. of life-threatening cases of gas poisoning, gas gangrene infection and the flesh-eating infection Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member and is also important in the treatment of cancer for Clayfield under Standing Order 123A. I think radiotherapy patients, I ask: why has the Minister the member for Clayfield feels that he has the consistently refused to provide an essential right to speak at all times in this House. I warn him hyperbaric unit in Brisbane? for the last time under Standing Order 123A. Mr HAYWARD: The hyperbaric unit is located at Townsville because it is used most Burnett River Traffic Bridge Project frequently by people suffering from the bends and other illnesses related to diving. It is located Mr CAMPBELL: I ask the Minister for at Townsville because it provides the most Transport: is he aware of the progress on the available access—— Legislative Assembly 8825 4 August 1994

Mr Horan: Are you aware the Townsville training in regional Queensland, they will be director said there should be another one in inclined to want to stay there. Queensland? The drift of medical specialists to capital Mr HAYWARD: I just make the point that cities is a well-known problem. I believe that the the unit is located in Townsville, and it operates problem is accentuated by the refusal of very successfully from that location. The specialist colleges to make enough training honourable member's complaint that the unit is positions available in Queensland. That is a not located in a capital city is absolute nonsense. national problem that must be addressed. In the The fact that the unit is located in Townsville most recent State Budget, the Government illustrates that, in Queensland, we aim to ensure introduced a three-year program directed at that medical services are provided in a attracting and retaining more specialist doctors to decentralised environment, that is, where they work in the Queensland public hospital system. are actually required. In the end, doctors are motivated by money. A component of that $11.2m package is pay rises totalling more than $6m for visiting medical Medical Specialists, Wide Bay Region specialists in public hospitals this financial year. Mr HORAN: I direct a second question to As well, $3.5m has been made available to the Minister for Health. He may be aware that the provide support staff for specialists to relieve the Wide Bay Regional Health Authority has had a administrative burden that they claim to have. I continual uncooperative and anti-medical have agreed to that funding, which will give attitude towards local Maryborough medical specialists more time to treat patients, which is professionals and that an interstate obstetrician after all what they should be doing. Importantly, and his family were flown to Maryborough for one $1.5m has been allocated for the provision of weekend, given accommodation in a motel and additional registrar training specialist positions in paid $2,000 for the weekend. The Minister provincial hospitals, which should increase the should also be aware that another interstate range and availability of specialist services in obstetrician was flown up for three weeks at public hospitals, particularly in regional areas. $4,000 per week. During that time, he was flown As I said earlier, there are problems with the to Canberra and back to attend a conference. supply of procedural specialists right across That same obstetrician had to call on local Australia. At the request of my Federal Maryborough obstetricians to cover his two counterpart, Dr Carmen Lawrence, that problem weekends. I ask: what action will the Minister take is currently being investigated by a former Liberal to bring about a more cooperative attitude by the senator, Dr Peter Baume. In simple terms, that regional health authority bureaucrats in Wide Bay review—— towards available local medical specialists in the best interests of the mothers in Maryborough Mr Horan interjected. and Hervey Bay? Mr HAYWARD: If the member would stop Mr HAYWARD: It sounds like the muttering and just listen, he might learn honourable member has been talking with his something. That review is looking at how some mates in the AMA yet again. Whatever they tell colleges have been able to restrict the number of him, he just chants out. It is as simple as that. The trainees coming into the profession. That member is prepared to change his view to practice impacts directly upon the existence of a accommodate people from the Queensland limited number of specialist staff to work in public branch of the Australian Medical Association. hospitals, particularly in regional areas. Let us be serious about this important issue. Mr BENNETT proceeding to give notice of a It involves the availability of specialists in regional question— and rural Queensland. One would have thought Mr Elliott interjected. that it would be possible to attract medical Mr SPEAKER: Order! I warn the member specialists to regional areas of Queensland such for Cunningham under Standing Order 123A. If as Bundaberg and Maryborough. We must any members interject during the asking of a ensure that we make more places available in question tomorrow, I will throw them out. I have provincial Queensland for the training of warned the member for Cunningham about specialists. To facilitate that, in conjunction with interjecting during question time. I now warn him the University of Queensland, this Government under Standing Order 123A. has established the University of Queensland Medical School, based in Townsville. That facility Order! The time for questions with or will ensure that doctors have the opportunity to without notice has now expired. be trained in a provincial centre of Queensland. One can only hope that, after receiving their 4 August 1994 8826 Legislative Assembly

NATIONAL ENVIRONMENT of environmental considerations into the PROTECTION COUNCIL decision-making processes of all Governments at (QUEENSLAND) BILL the project, program and policy levels. Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— The National Environment Protection Minister for Environment and Heritage) Council (Queensland) Bill is part of a package of (11.18 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I move— complementary State and Commonwealth "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill legislation to give effect to Schedule 4 of the for an Act to provide for the establishment of Intergovernmental Agreement. For ease of a National Environment Protection Council, reference, the text of the Intergovernmental and related purposes." Agreement is appended as the Schedule to the Bill. Motion agreed to. The Commonwealth introduced similar legislation into the Senate on 6 June 1994. This First Reading legislation has not yet been debated. Other Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and States and Territories, except Western Australia, Bill, on motion of Ms Robson, read a first time. are expected to introduce similar legislation later this year. The Bill before the House establishes the National Environmental Protection Council, a Second Reading ministerial council drawn from all participating Hon. M. J. ROBSON (Springwood— States, Territories and the Commonwealth. Minister for Environment and Heritage) Although a signatory to the Intergovernmental (11.19 a.m.): I move— Agreement, the Western Australian Government has indicated that it will not be participating in the "That the Bill be now read a second council at this stage. This action does not time." invalidate the national scheme. The National Environment Protection The ministerial council will be empowered to Council (Queensland) Bill is an important make national environmental protection landmark in the history of environmental measures which, through complementary protection in Queensland and Australia. It marks implementation legislation, will apply as valid law the commitment of the Commonwealth and the in each participating jurisdiction. The National States and Territories to work cooperatively to Environment Protection Council may make develop national environment protection measures in relation to: ambient air quality; measures. These measures aim to give all ambient marine, estuarine, and freshwater Australians the benefit of equivalent quality; noise, related to protecting amenity environmental protection and to ensure that where variations in measures would have an investment decisions by business are not adverse effect on national markets for goods and distorted by inappropriate variations in services; general guidelines for the assessment environmental standards between Australian of site contamination; the environmental impacts jurisdictions, or so called pollution havens. associated with hazardous wastes; motor vehicle Establishment of the National Environment emissions, and the reuse and recycling of used Protection Council and the mandatory materials. implementation of national environment National environment protection measures protection measures are part of the may be a combination of goals, guidelines, Intergovernmental Agreement on the standards and protocols. Simply, "goals" are the Environment to which the State of Queensland desired outcomes; "guidelines" are the means of is a signatory. The signing of the meeting these outcomes; "standards" are the Intergovernmental Agreement in 1992 quantifiable characteristics against which represented an important turning point in environmental quality is assessed; and Commonwealth/State relations in the field of "protocols" are the processes for measuring environmental management. The objects of the environmental characteristics to determine Intergovernmental Agreement bear repeating. It whether desired outcomes are being achieved. provides a framework to facilitate: a cooperative national approach to the environment; a better Consistent with the principles of ecologically definition of the roles of the respective sustainable development, and to ensure governments; a reduction in the number of simplicity and effectiveness of administration, disputes between the Commonwealth, the council must develop measures through a public States and Territories on environmental issues; consultative process having regard to a number greater certainty of Government and business of factors as specified in the Bill. Important decision making; and, importantly, better among these is the need to have regard to environmental protection through the integration regional environmental differences. This will Legislative Assembly 8827 4 August 1994 ensure that proper account is taken of the It is not proposed to create a substantial new different properties of air, water and land across bureaucracy for the development of national the diversity of Australian environments in the environment protection measures. Rather, the setting of environmental goals, standards and council secretariat will draw upon work being guidelines. In making a final decision on a carried out in existing environmental agencies measure, council must have regard to an impact throughout Australia. The cost of establishing statement relating to the measure, the public the council and developing measures will be submissions received and to advice from a shared between Commonwealth and State committee of Commonwealth and State officials. Governments on a fifty-fifty basis, with States Decisions by the council, which is chaired by the contributing on the basis of population. Commonwealth, will be by a two-thirds majority. The introduction of this Bill is an important The Commonwealth is thus one of eight step in the process of developing harmonious members under current arrangements, and does environmental law in Australia. The National not have a casting vote. Measures will be Environmental Protection Council will provide disallowed if three or more members vote against the means whereby Queensland can work in a proposal put to the council. partnership with the Commonwealth and the Through the Intergovernmental Agreement, States and Territories to share expertise, Queensland, in common with other States and resources and decision making to benefit Territories, is required to introduce environmental protection in Queensland and complementary legislation for the mandatory across Australia. application of national environment protection measures made by the council. Queensland's I commend this Bill to the House. compliance with this requirement will be Debate, on motion of Mr FitzGerald, implemented through the forthcoming adjourned. Environmental Protection Bill. The Bill proposes to automatically incorporate the national environment protection measures, made by the CONSUMER CREDIT (QUEENSLAND) council, into the State's environmental BILL protection policies—the subordinate regulations Hon. T. J. BURNS (Lytton—Deputy to Queensland's new environmental legislation. Premier, Minister for Emergency Services and As incorporated in Schedule 4 of the Minister for Rural Communities and Consumer agreement, a national environment protection Affairs) (11.26 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I measure agreed to by the council may be move— disallowed by either House of the "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill Commonwealth Parliament. If not disallowed by for an Act to regulate the provision of either House of the Commonwealth Parliament, consumer credit." the measures will then apply automatically in each participating jurisdiction. As provided by the Motion agreed to. agreement, the measures adopted by the above procedures do not prevent Queensland from First Reading introducing or maintaining more stringent measures to reflect specific circumstances or to Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and protect special environments within the State. Bill, on motion of Mr Burns, read a first time. As well as making national environmental protection measures, the council has an Second Reading important role to play in reporting annually to Hon. T. J. BURNS (Lytton—Deputy Parliament on its activities and its overall Premier, Minister for Emergency Services and assessment of the implementation and Minister for Rural Communities and Consumer effectiveness of national environmental Affairs) (11.27 a.m.): I move— protection measures in all participating "That the Bill be now read a second jurisdictions. The council will be assisted by a time." statutory committee of Commonwealth and State officials—the National Environment Protection The Consumer Credit (Queensland) Bill and Council Committee—and by a small secretariat the Consumer Credit Code which the House staffed by Commonwealth public servants, now has before it represents the culmination of established as a separate service corporation almost eight years of work by Consumer Affairs and accountable to the council. The Australian Ministers and officers throughout Australia. The Local Government Association will be legislation has been released in a number of represented on the committee. previous forms in the past, none of which was able to achieve the degree of consensus 4 August 1994 8828 Legislative Assembly between credit providers, consumer the range of hybrid products now available. The organisations, professional organisations or the legislation was therefore pitched towards a community which was needed to ensure its particular type of credit provider and a very limited progress through the Parliaments of the range of credit products. The law was therefore Australian States and Territories. limited in vision and straitjacketed in approach. The Bill now before the House, while not Thirdly, the existing legislation, though necessarily meeting all of the aspirations of all of intended to regulate by substance and not by the competing interests in Australia, form, in effect forced credit into a range of narrow nevertheless represents the best chance in our products prescribed by the legislation, namely history of achieving sustainable and progressive loan contracts, credit sale contracts and laws for the regulation of consumer credit. It is an continuing credit contracts. The very problem historic Bill, not just because of its contents, that the legislation was intended to overcome which I will discuss soon, but because of the was in fact entrenched by it. This also had the opportunity it presents for cooperative effect of ensuring that credit prices remained federalism in Australia. For many, the prospect of artificially high by inhibiting the development of the States and Territories agreeing to a set of innovative credit products and by preventing the laws on which there has been so much competitive forces in the economy having any acrimonious community debate seemed remote. pricing impact on consumer lending. Yet what we have achieved as States and The legislation was limited in scope in that Territories is a law which will significantly advance not all credit providers were covered. The consumer protection and at the same time legislation in most States did not cover building ensure that product diversity and competition is societies or credit unions. Moreover, the optimised. legislation did not cover a range of credit In 1987, the Queensland Parliament products, including housing finance. The net enacted the Credit Act, which commenced from result of all of these defects was, and remains, a 1 May 1989. The Credit Act, although differing in law that has become increasingly marginalised. some important respects, substantially mirrored The percentage of consumer lending the consumer credit legislation then in force in carried out by finance companies, which was far New South Wales, Victoria, Western Australia in excess of 70 per cent in the early 1970s, has and the Australian Capital Territory. In those now decreased to less than 20 per cent. The jurisdictions, the credit legislation commenced in legislation, therefore, was covering fewer and 1985. The existing credit legislation is not in fewer products and covering them in increasingly force in the remaining States and has a number unjust ways. Applications for exemption orders of significant drawbacks. It was the product of a from the legislation increased. At the same time, number of inquiries, including the Rogerson applications for reinstatement of civil penalty report in 1969 and the Molomby committee provisions brought about by credit providers who reports in 1972 and 1973. It was also influenced often had committed technical breaches of the by the Crowther committee report of the United legislation rose. Kingdom in 1971. By 1986, only two years after the southern The Credit Act has been quite correctly States had passed their credit legislation, there criticised by commentators and practitioners for was an awareness that amendments were being drafted in a difficult and convoluted needed. This resulted in the process which has manner, rendering it almost impossible either to led eventually to the development of the administer or to be honestly complied with. One consumer credit law now before the House. of the major concerns raised again and again by Consumer Affairs Ministers, credit providers, credit providers is that although the Act is drafted consumer credit organisations and professional in an obscure, technical and almost organisations have approached the task of unfathomable way, the penalties for technical reviewing the law in recent years in a cooperative breaches are extremely large. The second and productive fashion. They are aware of the criticism of the law is that it was outdated before it major drawbacks of the existing law, and they are was even passed. As I have said, it represented also aware of the important role that consumer the combined wisdom of a number of reports credit laws play not only in enhancing and which were issued in the late sixties and early channelling product development but also in seventies.The conditions pertaining to credit in ensuring basic consumer protection, which is the late sixties and early seventies were far fundamental to this exercise. The Bill attempts to different than those pertaining by the mid- achieve the dual goal of ensuring that strong eighties, let alone the 1990s. In the 1960s, the consumer protection remains a cornerstone of market was dominated by finance companies, the exercise, but at the same time recognises and, for example, variable interest consumer that competition and product innovation must be loans were unknown, as were credit cards and Legislative Assembly 8829 4 August 1994 enhanced and encouraged by the development part of the uniform credit laws agreement of non-prescriptive flexible laws. entered into in 1993, jurisdictions can either Turning now to the legislation—unlike the apply the law of Queensland as the law of their existing consumer credit laws, there is no artificial State or Territory or enact a law that is consistent monetary limit. The legislation instead applies to with the code. all consumer credit lending. Honourable Western Australia made it clear from the members will be interested to know that the outset that it would adopt the consistency rather three major areas where the existing than the application of laws model, and this is an Queensland credit legislation deviated from the essential element of the agreement. Therefore, legislation of the other States remain in the any concerns that the Western Australian legislation and have been accepted increasingly decision to apply consistent legislation would by the other States, namely— undermine this exercise misunderstands one of 1. There will be no credit tribunal the central elements of the uniform credit laws established in Queensland and instead agreement. Under the uniformity agreement Queensland will continue to vest Ministers are bound to the process of jurisdiction over consumer credit maintaining uniformity between the jurisdictions matters in courts of competent and this includes in the regulations as well. monetary jurisdiction; Amending legislation may not be introduced 2. There will be no positive licensing of into the Queensland Parliament unless there has credit providers under the legislation, been a resolution of the ministerial council, and instead Queensland will retain its passed by a majority of at least two-thirds of the negative licensing regime; and members who are present and who vote, approving the amending legislation. Once 3. The allowing of variable interest credit approved, the amending legislation is introduced contracts has now been recognised by into the Queensland Parliament and, if adopted, all other jurisdictions as the correct way then applied by the other States and Territories. to go and the prohibition on variable In the case of Western Australia, which has the rate lending is lifted under the Bill. consistency model, it is not required by the In addition, I should also point out that there agreement to get the approval of the ministerial is not a set maximum interest rate set in the council to amend its legislation. Obviously, legislation, but the Consumer Credit though, all parties are bound by the agreement (Queensland) Bill does give the Governor in not to submit legislation to their respective Council power to make regulations prescribing a Parliaments which conflicts or negates the maximum annual percentage rate. This is a matter consumer credit legislation. In addition, if not dealt with in the code and is a recognised Western Australia wishes to adopt the template non-uniform issue. This provision is intended to model in the future, it may do so. be a safeguard against possible unscrupulous The areas of non-uniformity agreed to by activities by fringe credit providers. There is no the States are essentially administrative matters, present intention to use this provision, which is namely, whether a court or tribunal will be utilised similar to one in the current Credit Act, but it does for resolving disputes, whether there will be provide a practical tool if the need ever arises. positive or negative licensing of credit providers The Consumer Credit Code, which is and whether a maximum interest rate will be set. annexed to the Bill, is intended to form the basis In addition, whether in fact a consumer credit of consumer credit laws throughout Australia. fund is established into which civil penalty Queensland has been chosen to introduce the moneys can be paid is also a matter for each template legislation. Other Australian jurisdiction. jurisdictions wishing to participate will pass As I have said, the legislation applies, application of laws legislation applying the credit basically, to all forms of consumer credit. code as the law in their jurisdiction. Thereafter, Business credit is not regulated, and this stands when the code and regulations made in contrast to the existing law which attempts to thereunder are modified, those changes will be regulate credit provided for the purchase of farm picked up in those jurisdictions resulting in machinery and commercial vehicles. To deal with uniformity both in substance and timing. some concerns raised by the rural community, I Despite the story on the front page of the have announced that, later this year, I will be Australian Financial Review of Tuesday, 2 introducing into the Parliament a Credit (Rural August 1994 that Western Australia was going it Finance) Bill. This is intended to ensure that the alone and that this would place the uniformity protections in the existing Act dealing with agreement between the States and Territories at repossession of farm machinery are maintained. risk, I can assure honourable members that as At this stage, Queensland will be the only 4 August 1994 8830 Legislative Assembly jurisdiction continuing this form of protection, when entering into transactions, understand and I make no apologies in saying that I believe what their rights and obligations are. some basic legislation is essential, for example, Just as critically, the code requires that a in grain-growing areas where farm machinery is copy of the contract be given to the debtor and needed at critical times to harvest crops which that a consumer may terminate a contract even can often result in debts being repaid. though the contract has been entered into, The legislation only applies to credit given to provided that no credit has been obtained or natural persons, unless the debtor is a strata attempted to be obtained under the contract. corporation. In addition, a charge must be made Honourable members' attention is also for the credit, and it must be provided by a credit drawn to the provisions in the legislation dealing provider as part of its business. The credit must with mortgages and guarantees. One important be provided or intended to be provided wholly or provision in the code is the prohibition on third predominantly for personal, domestic or party mortgages. By this a credit provider is household purposes. A predominant purpose is prohibited from entering into a mortgage to defined to include a purpose for which more than secure obligations under a credit contract unless one half of the credit is intended to be used, or if the mortgagor is a debtor or a guarantor under a the credit is intended to be used to obtain goods related guarantee. and services for different purposes, the purpose for which the goods or services are intended to In addition, any mortgage is void to the be most used. One example of the different extent to which it secures an amount in excess of purpose is where credit is obtained to purchase a the sum of the amount of the liabilities of the vehicle which may be used partly for personal debtor under the credit contract and reasonable and partly for business activities. If the vehicle is enforcement expenses of enforcing the most used for business purposes the transaction mortgage. I should point out, though, that the is not regulated by the code, whereas if the code specifically recognises all accounts vehicle is most used for personal purposes it is mortgages, which, as honourable members regulated. know, when properly used can be of assistance in minimising stamp duty, registration fees and The legislation also contains a number of professional costs when entering into new exceptions, and these are set out in clause 7 of mortgage arrangements. the code. The exceptions essentially mirror those which are currently provided by the Credit There have been a number of criticisms in Act. One of the key elements of the Consumer recent years about the way in which certain Credit Code is to ensure that there is truth in banking institutions have misused guarantees. lending. This means that a consumer can make The credit code contains a number of provisions an informed choice between credit providers as designed to ensure that persons wishing to to the nature of the credit being offered, as well guarantee the debt obligations of others are as the comparative costs between credit given key information up-front and that credit providers. providers cannot impose unreasonable obligations on guarantors. For example, a The legislation sets out in some detail the guarantor must receive a signed copy of the requirements for credit contracts, including such guarantee and related credit contract within 14 basic matters as precontractual disclosure, the days of execution. Moreover, before a fact that credit contracts must be in writing and guarantor's obligations under a credit contract that they must contain certain key material are increased, the guarantor must receive written designed to ensure that truth in lending is given notice of the proposed changes and before they effect to. The key disclosures are outlined in become binding the guarantor must first accept clause 15 of the code, and honourable members them in writing. will note that they deal with critical issues such as the annual percentage rate or rates, the amount Honourable members' attention is and number of repayments, the calculation and specifically drawn to part 4 of the code which total amount of interest charges, credit fees and deals with changes to obligations under credit charges, default rates, enforcement expenses, contracts, mortgages and guarantees, and, in commissions, insurance financed by the contract particular, division 3 which focuses on changes and other critical information. on grounds of hardship and unjust transactions. Firstly, as to hardship, the code provides as a Clause 16 provides that the contract must general principle that a debtor who is unable conform to the requirements of the regulations reasonably, because of illness, unemployment as to its form and the way it is expressed. This is or other reasonable cause, to meet his or her intended to ensure that documents are as far as obligations under a credit contract, and who possible user friendly, and that consumers, reasonably expects to be able to discharge their obligations if the terms of the contract are Legislative Assembly 8831 4 August 1994 changed by either extension or postponement, code, consequently, gives specific protections can apply to a credit provider for such a change. to persons who have taken out this form of This facility does not apply where the credit insurance. provided exceeds $125,000. To deal with the excessive commissions that The code also empowers the court to have been charged in the past, the code reopen unjust transactions. A court may, if provides that a commission must not exceed 20 satisfied on the application of the debtor, per cent of the premium and, in addition, on the mortgagor or guarantor that in the circumstances termination of a credit contract, any relevant relating to the contract, mortgage or guarantee, consumer credit insurance contract financed that at the time it was entered into or changed, under the contract is also terminated. These the transaction was unjust, reopen it. The code rights override any contrary statement in a credit sets out certain circumstances that the court can contract and will ensure that some of the most take into account in determining whether in fact a basic and telling consumer detriments in this area transaction should be reopened and I invite will be rectified. honourable members to peruse subclause The code also effectively reforms the civil 70 (2). The subsection outlines a number of penalty regime. Honourable members will be factors which the court may have regard to. aware that under the existing legislation in These are not intended to be exhaustive. addition to criminal penalties, credit providers One area of concern is housing lending automatically lose all of their interest if they and, in particular, the serious issue of breach certain provisions of the Act. Credit overcommitment. The consumer credit code has providers have to make reinstatement not been drafted with the intention of requiring applications which are costly and often drawn out credit providers to make inquiries beyond those and this aspect of the existing legislation has ordinarily made by prudent lenders. Nor is it caused considerable adverse comment. intended to place obstacles in the way of lenders giving credit to borrowers who make it clear from Under the Consumer Credit Code the the outset that they will have difficulties repaying number of civil penalty triggers has been their loan but nevertheless want to take on the narrowed and made explicit. The triggers are obligation because of the lifestyle they wish to called "key requirements" and are set out in pursue. This often happens with young people clause 100. The present open-ended liability of when they are buying their first home. It is credit providers is modified and a cap of intended to deal with those lenders who $500,000 for all breaches of a key requirement in consciously lend without making proper inquiries Australia is proposed. This capping will deal with into the debtor's ability to pay rather than those concerns of some of the smaller lenders that lenders and borrowers who have gone down this their prudential standing could have been path and made a conscious decision based on otherwise jeopardised. In addition, when the best information available. determining whether to impose a civil penalty, a court is specifically required to have regard In relation to State housing agencies, which primarily to the prudential standing of the credit are covered by the code, I point out that it is provider if requested by the credit provider. certainly in the public interest that these agencies continue to provide finance to persons Apart from an application by a borrower who otherwise may not be able to obtain finance. affected, a State consumer agency can I therefore wish to make abundantly clear that intervene in a civil penalty application either to subclause 70 (2) should not be read or assist the court or to represent debtors. In the understood as somehow inhibiting traditional event that a State consumer affairs agency lending practices of State housing agencies or intervenes, any civil penalty or part thereof be in any way interpreted as preventing people awarded against a credit provider can be paid into who are suffering from income shortfalls being a Consumer Credit Fund. deprived of the benefit of socially just and The Consumer Credit Fund is intended to innovative housing schemes. provide a central location from which moneys can One of the important innovations in the be disbursed to assist consumers and their code are the provisions relating to consumer representatives in relation to credit matters. credit insurance. Consumer credit insurance has Consequently, the quantum of civil penalties will been the subject of justified criticism for some be made more realistic and proportionate to the years now as being unjust with excessive offence, the current reversal of onus of proof will premiums in relation to payouts and be removed, the prudential implications of orders unacceptably high commissions. The problems will be recognised, the role of State consumer with this form of insurance were exposed by the agencies will be upgraded and there will be a Trade Practices Commission in 1991 and the 4 August 1994 8832 Legislative Assembly more effective use of civil penalty moneys to I have much pleasure in presenting the Bill advance the broader consumer interest. to the House. Finally, I should also mention that linked Debate, on motion of Mr Rowell, adjourned. credit provider provisions, now called related sale PLACE NAMES BILL contracts, remain an integral element of the Consumer Credit Code. Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister for Lands) (11.51 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I have attempted to give honourable I move— members a general overview of the code, but have by no means dealt with all of the important "That leave be granted to bring in a Bill provisions. I can say that the code provides a for an Act about the naming of places." comprehensive framework for all aspects of Motion agreed to. consumer credit lending. From the consumer's viewpoint its central pillars are disclosure, accessibility to useful information and First Reading enforcement and reopening mechanisms which Bill and Explanatory Notes presented and target areas of demonstrated consumer need. Bill, on motion of Mr Smith, read a first time. From the credit provider's point of view, this legislation is not just a consumer credit code but a code of good business practice. It contains Second Reading provisions which should reflect good lending Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister practices but at the same time is flexible enough for Lands) (11.52 p.m.): I move— and sufficiently contemporary to ensure that it will "That the Bill be now read a second pose no significant problems to lender and time." borrower relationships, product innovation, competition or the development of sensible The Bill is intended to replace the existing pricing decisions. place names legislation, the Queensland Place Names Act 1988, and to provide clear, Honourable members only have to peruse unambiguous and acceptable names for places. the index to the legislation to see that the code It will clarify the place naming processes and deals with everything from precontractual provide better opportunities for public disclosure and advertising, the form and content participation in this process. It implements a 1991 of credit documentation, the enforcement of recommendation of the Public Sector obligations and the changes to those obligations Management Commission that the level of as well as such important ancillary matters as decision making for place names be transferred harassment, related sale contracts and related from the Governor in Council to the Minister for insurance contracts. Lands. Naming powers existing in other Acts will The legislation is written in plainer English be repealed and principal responsibility for and should be of tremendous assistance to the naming geographical places will be vested in the courts, the professions and the lending Minister for Lands. fraternity. Obviously, the success or failure of this exercise will now depend on the other States The Bill has been designed to respond to and territories passing the legislation. If, as I am community requirements which have been sure they will, the much harder task will be identified through consultation with the major making sure that the Consumer Credit Code parties affected by place names legislation. The remains contemporary and relevant and meets requirements are: the needs of the Australian community. to name places in accordance with clear, When Consumer Affairs Ministers dropped acceptable principles; the baton in the past, the States were to improve the opportunity for community confronted with possible Commonwealth comment through the inclusion of a intervention on credit cards. Fortunately, this did provision for statements of support as well not come to pass, but it highlights the need for as statements of objection; States and Territories to recognise that there is a to provide an extension of the time allowed wider audience out there and like our public for community comment (which is very servants and corporations we all also have important for isolated or remote performance indicators that we must meet. communities); So far as credit is concerned, our to provide for the continuation of ministerial performance indicator will be acting in a bipartisan power to dispense with the community and innovative way so that the promise of this comment process in the interests of legislation is realised and kept. efficiency in cases of minor boundary Legislative Assembly 8833 4 August 1994

adjustments or the naming of remote effective feedback to communities or individuals features; who made submissions on the proposal. to simplify decision making by vesting The Bill continues the Gazetteer of Place responsibility for place names in the Minister Names and provides that the chief executive is for Lands; responsible for the recording and prompt to provide that other departments may updating of the details of approved place names. undertake the appropriate community Public inspection of the gazetteer and copies of consultation processes relating to all or part of it will continue to be available at a geographical features in which they have a reasonable cost. vital interest, prior to presenting their Part 3 sets out when it is an offence to recommendation for place naming to the publish a name which is not an approved place Minister for Lands. name. Looking in more detail at the Bill, in Part 1 The confusion caused by the use of the definition for a "place" as an "area or unapproved place names results in misdirected geographical feature (whether natural or mail and other services for private and business artificial)" makes certain specific exclusions. addresses. More serious consequences include The process to be followed in naming the non-arrival of emergency vehicles for fires, places is set out in Part 2. The Bill details for the traffic accidents and police incidents. For first time the issues considered to be relevant to example, the potential for confusion caused by place naming proposals. The implementation of similar sounding names such as Kallangur and these principles will provide a balanced approach Kalinga will be recognised by everybody. The Bill to dealing with place names. thus meets the community's need for clear and unambiguous place names for economic and Queensland has obligations to accepted public safety reasons. conventions for place names as expressed internationally by such bodies as the United Part 4 continues the present protection for Nations Group of Experts on Geographical an official from civil liability, and provides the Names and, closer to home, the Committee for power to make regulations. Geographical Names in Australia. This Bill The Bill also provides that the powers of the ensures that Queensland fulfils its chief executive under this Act may be delegated responsibilities in this regard. to another officer of the public service. Whilst Powers to name a new place, change an confining the power to name places to the approved name or to discontinue the use of a Minister for Lands, the legitimate interests of all place name are vested by this Bill in the Minister Government agencies in place naming will be for Lands. The Minister's powers will usually be protected. It repeals place-naming powers in exercised following the development of a place other legislation but enables particular name proposal, public notification of the departments to consult with the community on proposal in most cases, and appropriate places of interest to them and to make consideration of relevant issues and any recommendations on their names to the Minister submissions properly made which impact on the for Lands. decision of a place name. Part 5 is mainly transitional and these Should significant community interest in any arrangements will expire one year after particular place naming proposal not eventuate, commencement of the new Act. the Bill provides in some cases that the Minister I commend the Bill to the House. may dispense with the public notification and Debate, on motion of Mr FitzGerald, proceed directly to a decision to approve or not adjourned. approve the proposal. These cases would include a proposal for a place name which relates to a minor or technical matter, such as amending LAND TITLE TRANSITIONAL a district boundary following developmental REGULATION 1994 (SUBORDINATE works. LEGISLATION 1994—No. 145) The Bill effectively transfers the decision- Disallowance of Statutory Instrument making power for place names from the Governor Mr SANTORO (Clayfield—Deputy Leader in Council to the Minister for Lands. The of the Liberal Party) (11.58 a.m.): I wish to move Minister's decision on the place name is also this disallowance motion on behalf of the required to be published in the same manner as honourable member for Warrego, who is the place name proposal. This overcomes a unavoidably absent from the House today. I do defect in the existing legislation which does not not wish to speak for very long, but I wish to place publicise a decision and does not provide on the record the concerns of the Opposition in 4 August 1994 8834 Legislative Assembly relation to the transaction efficiencies which this congratulating the Titles Office on bringing the regulation seeks to impart within the system but, figure down to that level. unfortunately, we are yet to notice. Historically, the lodgments for the whole of During the last session of Parliament, we 1992-93 ran at 2 300 per day. The source of that debated some amendments to the Lands Title information is the Minister's own annual report. Act. In that debate, I raised some very disturbing Historically, lodgments for the whole of 1988-89 matters and, since then, we have heard almost ran at 2 200 per day. Again, the source of my nothing from the Minister except in the last information is the Minister's report. If the figures couple of days. I think that this regulation, which are as I quote them, there is clearly no need for seeks to implement the effective and efficient the Minister to bring in those extra 15 people operation of the register, gives us the other than to correct the malfunctions that have opportunity to exchange some views. The been occurring. I do stand by the assertion that I Opposition wishes to make some constructive have made in the form of a notice of contribution to this debate other than moving a motion—and, of course, I will not speak to it disallowance of this regulation. now—that the backlog is, in fact, 70 000 to Earlier this morning, the Minister suggested 80 000. Any reputable land agent would tell the that the efficiency of the titles register system Minister that that is what the department's was, in fact, up to speed. employees are telling people over the counter. Mr Littleproud: 97 per cent. In an answer to a question that he arranged Mr SANTORO: He did quote 97.1 per following my motion, the Minister did admit that cent utilisation, I think. his computer has broken down. The Minister seeks to bring in regulations which purport to I will briefly outline to the House some of the make his land register an effective and efficient statistics. The House would be aware that operation. However, the other things that are lodgments have been running at 2 800 per day happening in relation to his department, for the past six—— including the malfunctioning of computers and Mr SMITH: I rise to a point of order. I would the inexperience of people who are serving on like to point out that this is not a second-reading his counters these days—in particular, those speech; it is a motion of disallowance dealing extra 15 people— clearly run counter to the precisely with the registrar's notification of objectives of this regulation. dealing. I suggest that the Minister reads the rest of Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): the media release that I issued this morning, Order! I take the Honourable Minister's point of within which are outlined some very constructive order. I will allow the member for Clayfield to suggestions from the Opposition as to how the continue for a while longer, and then I will make problem could be fixed. my decision. Mrs Bird: That would be a first. Mr SANTORO: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Again, I certainly do not wish to abuse Mr SANTORO: I will take that interjection. the privilege of the debate. However, this aspect If honourable members opposite care to read my does touch specifically on the contents of this contributions—— regulation. I have read the Act and the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I now regulation. It does refer to the effective and call the member for Clayfield to order under efficient operation of the register, and it certainly Standing Order 120, which states that the refers to transactions. That is what we want to talk honourable member must refer to the contents about. of the regulation before the House. I have been Mr Vaughan: Talk to the regulations. very tolerant of the member; I have given him five Mr SANTORO: Of course, and that is minutes. precisely what we are doing. As I was saying, the Mr SANTORO: I very much appreciate the Minister seeks to tell us that one of the reasons leeway, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I will come back why he had to introduce 15 extra inexperienced to the motion. As I said, this contribution was casual people in the past few days was simply to meant to be a brief one. I appreciate the leeway clean up the backlog, or to cater for the increase that honourable members have given me in in the number of transactions that are occurring terms of being able to answer directly—— within the Titles Office. Lodgments have been Mr Welford: We are very tolerant. running at 2 800 for the past six months. In April, the backlogs were down to an acceptable level of Mr SANTORO: Sometimes members 15 000 to 20 000. At that time, the Opposition, opposite are tolerant, but most times they are including myself, took the opportunity of not. Legislative Assembly 8835 4 August 1994

Basically, the Opposition objects to this Office, and there are people who have left the regulation, which will give—— Titles Office—many of them— because of their Mr Smith interjected. total dissatisfaction and because of a decline in morale. Mr SANTORO: That is what we are doing; we are moving this disallowance motion. The At what cost has the computerisation taken Minister should not be expressing surprise, place? We do appreciate the value of because the motion has been on the books for computerisation, but inoperable computers do several weeks. not lend effect to these regulations that seek an efficient Titles Office system. Of course, there Mr Smith: I thought you would have are other ways to improve the rate of caught up with it by now. transactions. One of those ways is to reintroduce Mr SANTORO: I will take that interjection. the accredited searches scheme, which was With respect, the Minister is the one who should operating up to mid-May this year. As the be catching up with things. I would like the Opposition says—and I will conclude on this Minister to stand in this place and deny that at the point, Mr Deputy Speaker—the Minister should moment there are between 70 000 and 80 000 give a lot of serious consideration to transactions outstanding within his department. I reintroducing duplicate titles to promote would like the Minister to reiterate to the House efficiency. what he said in answer to a very badly worded It is not with any flippancy or disregard for Dorothy Dixer, namely, that his computer had the proper operations of departments that broken down. The Minister has admitted it. Oppositions move motions of disallowance such When the Minister brings in regulations as this one I will move on behalf of my colleague such as this, which seek to keep proper the honourable member for Warrego. We want to information within the titles system, which seek see a titles system that actually works. I am afraid to determine how long the register needs to that these regulations, although they may be well keep information, we have to go back to all of meaning, are meaningless in the real sense those other points that we have raised when they are applied within the Titles Office. If previously. We cannot have an effective and we were to ring up any solicitor, land agent, efficient register if all of the other fundamentals landowner or individual seeking to transact with that we have been mentioning this morning and the Titles Office and invoke the provisions within previously are not in place. The Minister should these regulations—which will undoubtedly be look at the whole issue of transactions. carried on the numbers later on—they would tell Section 3.1 states that only a person on the Minister that that is the case and that they just settlement of a transaction relating to a lot, or an cannot do good business. interest in a lot, would be entitled to lodge an Only a week ago, I spoke to some of the instrument affecting title to the lot. If there are senior people in the Minister's department. They 80 000 transactions outstanding, the Minister genuinely do try to help in the cases that I refer to can forgive the Opposition for saying that that them. I want to go on the record as saying that. I provision cannot be implemented effectively. hope that I do not get them into trouble. The Even though the Minister may have thought that Minister has often said to me, "Santo, why don't I was trying to draw a longbow, clearly this you give me a ring, and we can try to fix the hard regulation is meaningless to people who are cases." But I try not to bother the Minister. I do trying to have transactions processed through want to acknowledge that there are genuine his department. people within the Minister's department who do In conclusion, I honestly and sincerely refer try to help. the Minister to those suggestions that we have Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The made to him. If he is going to implement Chair has been extremely tolerant. regulations such as this, skilled people will be Mr SANTORO: I am finishing. needed within the Titles Office. Many people who have either been fired or who have left the Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The Titles Office because of a lack of morale would be member has not finished; he now has to formally very capable of implementing regulations such move the motion of disallowance. as these—that is, if the Minister intends to Mr SANTORO: With recognition of the pursue them. good work and good advice—— Mr Smith: Nobody has been fired. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Mr SANTORO: I have a couple statutory Mr SANTORO:—that is from time to time declarations that, if the Minister really wants to rendered, I move— push me, I will be happy to have a bit of a yarn about. People have been fired from the Titles 4 August 1994 8836 Legislative Assembly

"That Land Title Transitional Regulation Clayfield, and commented on the significance of 1994 (Subordinate Legislation 1994—No. the regulation and informed us that it had to be 145) tabled in the Parliament on 31 May operational for the transitional period. If that were 1994 be disallowed." true, why the dickens was the regulation not in Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) place? What was the Minister trying to hide? What (12.10 p.m.): I rise to formally second the was the reason for that incompetence and disallowance motion. I do so for a number of very inefficiency? Was the Minister having a sleep on specific reasons. When I first looked at this the job, as some people tell me he does from regulation, I thought that there must have been time to time? The ball is in the Minister's court. He an error. I noted that the commencement date of has to explain to this Parliament the reasons for the regulation was 24 April 1994. However, the the retrospectivity and explain his regulation was tabled in the House at the end of incompetence. Perhaps once again we are May. More importantly, even though it came into merely seeing an illustration of the sheer effect on 24 April 1994, the regulation was arrogance of the Government. Perhaps this is yet approved by the Governor in Council on 5 May another illustration of its abuse of the 1994—some days later. On 6 May 1994, parliamentary process, examples of which we are notification of the regulation was published in the seeing regularly in a host of areas. Queensland Government Gazette and it The Land Title Transitional Regulation therefore became official. relates to the new system of land titling. One I have heard a great deal from the Minister would have thought that the Minister would have about the significance and importance of this had it all planned out beforehand, as any regulation. If it were so significant and important, competent Minister would have done. The what was the Minister doing between 24 April regulation should have been approved by the 1994 and 6 May 1994, the latter date being Governor in Council and notified in the when notification of the regulation was published Queensland Government Gazette well before 24 in the Queensland Government Gazette? How April this year, if that was the date from which it were the Minister and the department operating was to apply. We hear a great deal from Labor during that period? Some very significant Party members about the need to abide by the principles are at issue here. We are all aware of proper processes. They claim to be the the controversy surrounding the Land Titles Act. champions of that cause. Labor Party members We know how the Minister mucked up that claim that they never abuse the parliamentary business. We well remember the arrogance that process. If ever there was an abuse of the he displayed throughout the whole exercise. We parliamentary process, this case is a potent will not forget his incompetence and inefficiency example. This regulation should have been in relation to that matter. approved well before 24 April. It is little wonder that people around the It is little wonder that people believe firmly State now refer to Geoff Smith as "the that the Executive Government runs this State. retrospective Minister". Not so long after the The fact is that this regulation was not tabled, was Land Titles Act was passed by this Parliament, not approved by the Governor in Council and the Minister had to redefine the definitions, was not notified in the Queensland Government because they were not up to scratch. Those Gazette before the date from which it was to redefined definitions also applied apply. As I have already indicated, this is the retrospectively, from 24 April this year. The second occasion on which the proper procedure redefined definitions were assented to on 30 was not followed. The first related to the June this year—some two months after the Act amendments to the Act. In fact, we have seen became law. across-the-board failures with the process relating to the new land titling system. It is little Clearly, a number of very significant wonder that the department is in such turmoil principles are at issue here. The Minister must and such chaos, when the Minister cannot put indicate clearly to the Chamber what was the regulation in place in time. If the Minister happening between 24 April and 6 May. Was the does not have the transitional regulation in place, department operating without any guidelines there is little hope of the department operating and outside the law? Obviously, it was. That is efficiently and effectively. It is little wonder that why the regulation had to be made retrospective. day in, day out I receive complaints from What was the hold-up in having the regulation members of the legal profession right around the approved by the Governor in Council before 24 State about the incompetence of the Minister April? No reason has been given for that delay. and his various failings. Apparently, this regulation is very significant. The Minister interjected on the This is more than merely arrogance; this is a previous speaker, the honourable member for clear abuse of the Fitzgerald process—a concept Legislative Assembly 8837 4 August 1994 that this Government loves to trot out at any time. this regulation. He is making a mockery of the The fact that this regulation was not approved by entire parliamentary process. the Governor in Council and not notified in the Mr VAUGHAN (Nudgee) (12.19 p.m.): It is Queensland Government Gazette before the a pity that the two previous speakers did not date from which it was to apply makes a mockery know what they were speaking about. Neither of of open and accountable government and of the them spoke about the regulation. Neither of parliamentary process. I am confident that the them know what is in the regulation. The member Minister will be able to provide no adequate for Clayfield waffled on, as usual, and the last reason for his failure in this case. The proper speaker abused the privileges of this House. procedure is very clear, and in this case it simply was not adhered to. Mr BEANLAND: I rise to a point of order. Mr Deputy Speaker, I have the regulation here in The Minister and his staff should have front of me. I have been quoting from it, page ensured that the proper procedures were after page. adhered to. This is not an insignificant matter that Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): will affect only a handful of people. This Act and Order! There is no point of order. this regulation affect the day-to-day commerce of this State. They affect the security of property Mr VAUGHAN: It is a pity that the member ownership in this State. That is a fundamental for Indooroopilly had not read the regulation he principle. Labor members are wonderful at held in his hand before he stood on his feet. He carrying on about fundamental principles. A did not have a clue of what he was talking about. fundamental principle of western democracy is He waffled on and abused the privileges of this the right to secure ownership of private property. House in the same way as the member for Through his actions, the Minister has made a Clayfield did. mockery of that principle. His actions in this case On Wednesday, 8 June, the member for highlight the contempt that he holds for the Warrego gave notice that he would move that parliamentary process. this regulation be disallowed. At that time, One would have expected that this because of what he had to say during the debate regulation would have been tabled in this place on Tuesday, 7 June, when he moved the and, more importantly, published in the disallowance of the Land Title Regulation 1994 Queensland Government Gazette well and truly (Subordinate Legislation 1994 No. 133), I before the date from which it was to apply, as is wondered why he would be seeking to have this the normal practice. That should particularly have regulation disallowed. However, after carefully been so with a regulation relating to such an reading what he said on Tuesday, 7 June, and important matter. As I said earlier, this is not some listening to what his stand-in, the member for minor matter; it affects many Queenslanders. Clayfield, has said in this debate, I have come to The question must be asked: as no transitional the conclusion that the member for Warrego, the regulation was in place, what was going on member for Clayfield, the member for between 24 April and 6 May? Indooroopilly and the rest of the Opposition are generally not opposed to what is contained in The Opposition is strenuously opposed to this regulation or, for that matter, what was the fact that the proper process was not contained in the previous regulation. The followed. The fact that the proper process was member for Clayfield is, on behalf of Opposition not followed represents a clear abuse of the members, voicing their opposition to the Land principles in which we are supposed to believe. Title Act 1994, which was passed by the This Government would have us believe that it Parliament, I might point out, without opposition, upholds those principles, but its actions in this on 23 February this year. The Opposition case speak far louder than any of the words of supported the passage of the Bill. the Minister or any of his colleagues. The Minister's actions in this case speak volumes for On 16 February this year, the Land Title Bill the attitude that he and his colleagues have was introduced into the House by the Minister for towards the democratic process, the Lands and on 23 February the second-reading parliamentary process and the Fitzgerald debate took place. After 98 minutes of debate, process. We have heard so much rhetoric about the Bill was passed without dissent. In fact, as all of those matters; but, when it comes to real Hansard shows, the member for Warrego action, the actions of the Minister speak far acknowledged that the provisions in the Bill louder than his words. would "enhance the titling system". That is what he said—that they would enhance the titling It is my pleasure to second this disallowance system. He said that he supported the Bill. In motion. At no time has the Minister provided any fact, his very last words were that members of the justification for the retrospective application of Opposition supported the legislation. Yet, here today, as was done on Tuesday, 7 June, and on 4 August 1994 8838 Legislative Assembly numerous occasions since—members opposite Of course, in moving the disallowance of have had ample opportunity—the Opposition is this regulation, what the Opposition is trying to doing a complete backflip and opposing the do is to prevent any transitional arrangements regulation—a regulation which, as I said, it does applying in the interim. Surely, those people on not know anything about, and which in whose behalf the Opposition is acting must accordance with normal practice is designed to realise the end result of the disallowance of this assist with the practical implementation of the regulation. Either Opposition members do not Land Title Act. know what they are about or they do not care and On 23 February, the member for they are just moving this disallowance motion as Warrego—who is not even here today—and the another form of opposition to the introduction of remainder of the Opposition thought that the the automated titling system which, as I have provisions of the Land Title Bill would enhance indicated previously, it initially supported. the titling system but now they are trying to Fortunately, the disallowance motion will not frustrate its implementation. The Land Title succeed. Transitional Regulation 1994 which the Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (12.26 p.m.): I Opposition wants disallowed actually establishes speak in opposition to this regulation. Unlike the further transitional arrangements allowing member who just resumed his seat—— settlement of land transactions to take place in Mr Springborg: Who had a ministerial the same manner as before. Clause 192 of the brief. Land Title Act provides for the making of a regulation to facilitate the transition from the Mr STEPHAN: He obviously read what previous Act to the Land Title Act. somebody else wrote for him. If the member looks at both the regulation and the legislation, As I understand it, a number of people in the he will find a good example of a Henry VIII clause. legal profession have expressed concern about The Government is going outside of the the new procedures prescribed by the Land Title legislation, endeavouring to legislate through Act relating to transfer of title and registration of regulations, and I am very much opposed to that title. Some people in the legal profession in this instance. Unfortunately, this is not the only apparently consider that the process that was instance in which the Government has attempted followed under the previous Act whereby on the this. day of settlement the person selling a piece of land hands over the certificate of title—which I I refer honourable members to section 30, might point out is only a copy but which a lot of which is headed "Registrar must register people believe is the actual title—to the instruments". Section 30 (1) states— purchaser who in turn hands over the money and "If a person lodges an instrument and transfer documents are then lodged in the Titles complies with the requirements in this Act Office. Those documents provided security for for its registration, the Registrar must the purchaser and should be retained. Of register the instrument." course, the security that existed under that Mr Vaughan: Is that clause 30 of the process depended heavily on the transfer regulation we are debating? documents being lodged with the Titles Office without delay. My advice is that delays in Mr STEPHAN: That is in the Land Title lodgment of transfer documents did, and still do, Act. occur. However, in an endeavour to cater for the Mr Vaughan: We are debating the wishes of the legal profession, and until an regulation. acceptable procedure is worked out, the Mr STEPHAN: Section 6 of the regulation transitional arrangements provided in this states— regulation—which the Opposition does not appear to care about or give any consideration to "While the Registrar keeps the and which I understand has been approved by information under subsection (5), the the legal profession—are to apply. I emphasise Registrar must not register an instrument that the transitional arrangements have been affecting the title to the lot other than . . ." approved by the legal profession. According to However, the situation here is that we have an article on page 13 of the Sunday Mail dated regulations which should be in the principal Act. 12 June, the industry groups concerned have That is the point I am trying to make to the been given until this month to come up with a member for Nudgee and that is what he cannot new procedure for settling property transactions understand. under the automated titling system. As the I take note of the comment of the member Minister indicated in that article, it is up to the for Indooroopilly that this regulation came into industry groups to establish their own protocol effect on 24 April, which was well before the time for settlement. that it was gazetted. There have been a number Legislative Assembly 8839 4 August 1994 of examples where this sort of thing has As to the contributions of the member for occurred. The request was made for the Clayfield and the member for Indooroopilly—I legislation to be validated. I just wonder how have never heard such a lot of codswallop in my many transactions took place in that period life. I hope that they have the guts to call for a between 24 April and 6 May, when the regulation division on this proposal. Approximately 300 was gazetted. I ask the Minister just how many dealings a month take advantage of the transactions took place in that period of time and registrar's notification facility. I have received what effort has been made to make sure that significant correspondence requesting that the they were all valid. The regulation states— facility remain in place as a permanent feature. ". . . the Registrar must not register an Nobody has suggested to me that it ought not to instrument affecting title to the lot other be in place. I will have a lot of pleasure in pointing than . . . out to people who approach me on this matter that the Opposition sought to destroy that (e) a caveat; or" facility. I am sure that the business community will I would have thought that a caveat should have be impressed by that. been put in the principal Act in the first place, not The Land Title Act 1994 has introduced here in the regulation. The regulation fundamental reforms to the titling continues— process—reforms that have been long overdue. "(f) a court order; or In fact, they are 10 years overdue. The previous (g) a transmission on bankruptcy." Government should have introduced them at the same time as similar reforms were introduced in Before that the regulation states— New South Wales, but it did not. These reforms "(d) a writ or warrant of execution." should have been introduced over 10 years ago Above that point, again, the regulation states— and could have averted the current backlog. I admit that there is a backlog, but this has been "(c) an instrument that the Registrar is exacerbated by the unprecedented growth in satisfied will not adversely affect the the economy and the building industry in transaction; or" particular. The tools and reformed processes to Mr Vaughan: You voted for the Bill. handle this situation are now available. Mr STEPHAN: This was not in the Bill. A practice has developed in Queensland This is a regulation that the Government dreamt whereby vendors and purchasers exchange up. If the registrar's opinion can affect the money for documentation, and purchasers registration, how wide is the Act under the believe that, by virtue of possession of that Government's guidelines? The Government documentation, they are the owner of the introduced this regulation, which overrides the property. This is even before they have lodged wording of the Act. For example, if a caveat is their documentation for registration of the land going to be one of the transactions that it should transaction. Change of ownership in the Torrens be affecting, then that should be included in the system—as Mr Vaughan quite accurately Act itself—not in the regulation. Because the said—has always occurred at law only after Government was running into trouble, it slipped registration of the documentation, not at the time in a regulation. of settlement. Purchasers are at risk if they I am concerned about clause 6 of the continue to use outdated procedures and pay regulations. I am also concerned about the money at settlement without concurrent length of time between when the regulations lodgment. were to come into effect and when they were These transitional regulations, which are gazetted. This is not idle chatter. This is a very being debated here today, were introduced to serious transformation, and I ask the Minister to help purchasers who continue to follow the old address this issue in his reply. culture and processes and to give them security Hon. G. N. SMITH (Townsville— Minister during the delay between settlement and the for Lands) (12.31 p.m.), in reply: Firstly, I thank time they actually lodge their documents. The the member for Nudgee for his erudite summing- facility is available only to the party acquiring the up of the situation. He made a very valuable interest; if the owner's certificate of title has been contribution, and anyone who was seriously previously cancelled on deposit in the land interested in this matter would have learnt registry; and in those instances where no something. As to the member for owner's certificate of title had been issued by the Gympie—although I really do not believe that he Registrar of Titles. I am providing this protective made any significant points, at least he honestly mechanism as an interim arrangement until 1 tried to talk to the regulation. February 1995. 4 August 1994 8840 Legislative Assembly

The registrar's notification of dealings is to the banks, the other financial institutions and allow those associations whose members are other professional service providers. involved in real property conveyancing to It is interesting to note that the member for establish mutually acceptable settlement Warrego gave notice of his intention to move this protocol or procedure that eliminates the timelag disallowance of a regulation, which has been between settlement and lodgment. This facility is requested by and, indeed, made available to the also provided at no cost to any party. The Land people of Queensland. As a matter of fact, after Title Transitional Regulation 1994—and I put some emphasis on "transitional"—is authorised the recent amendment to the Land Title Act was by section 192 of the Land Title Act 1994, which passed through the House, I pointed out to Mr must expire one year after the commencement Hobbs, the member for Warrego, that he might of the Act, that is, 24 April 1995. wish to save himself some embarrassment and withdraw his motion. However, he decided not The Department of Lands has participated in to. I find it very interesting that he has probably negotiations between interested associations to woken up to what he has really done. He is not establish completion procedures. The here today to cop the embarrassment that this department coordinated the initial meeting of will cause the Opposition. So he put forward two representatives of the associations involved, stars from the Opposition, who rattled on. They where a committee was formed to investigate the will ultimately be a complete embarrassment to associated issues. Departmental representatives their party. Because of the arguments put are also working with the committee and will forward, I suggest that there is no case for assist in any way appropriate from a departmental disallowance of the regulation as promulgated. perspective. As I mentioned, the registrar's notification of dealings is supported by the Law Question—That the motion be agreed Society, the banks, other financial institutions to—put; and the House divided— and associated professionals. In fact, it was AYES, 29—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, introduced at their request. So it will be very Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Goss J. N., interesting to see how they respond to formal Healy, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, opposition by members opposite. McCauley, Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Turner, Watson It is important for all members to note that Tellers: Springborg, Laming Queensland is going through unprecedented growth. As I said yesterday, lodgments in the NOES, 43—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, titling area have increased from an average of Braddy, Briskey, Budd, Burns, Campbell, Clark, 1 800 per day to about 3 000. This has occurred Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, at the same time as the implementation of the Fenlon, Foley, Hayward, Hollis, McElligott, McGrady, automated titling system. It is important to note Nunn, Nuttall, Pearce, Power, Purcell, Pike, that if the department had not implemented the Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, Spence, automated titling system, backlogs and service Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, Vaughan, times would have been far worse. The staffing Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Pitt, Livingstone structure of the titling area is currently at levels Resolved in the negative. designed to handle 1 800 documents a day. To deal with this unprecedented growth, we have recently moved to employ additional staff. It is AMBULANCE SERVICE AMENDMENT anticipated that this growth will extend through REGULATION (No. 2) 1994 1996. The implementation of the automated (SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION titling system, the new Land Title Act, the new 1994—No. 173) consolidated common forms and the streamlined Disallowance of Statutory Instrument procedures will allow us to deal with this unprecedented growth. However, as record Mr LITTLEPROUD (Western Downs) lodgments have occurred over the past few (12.45 p.m.): I formally move— months, it will take some time to return to service "That Ambulance Service Amendment levels previously experienced. I must make it Regulation (No. 2) 1994 (Subordinate clear to all members that the delays experienced Legislation 1994—No. 173) tabled in the recently in titling have nothing to do with the Parliament on 7 June 1994 be disallowed." implementation of our recent initiatives. It is opportune that this motion of The introduction of these transitional disallowance should be moved today, because regulations to allow for the registrar's notification on Tuesday of this week I had the opportunity to of dealings is another innovation and have discussions with the deputy director- improvement for the titling system. As I general of the Minister's department and the mentioned, this is supported by the Law Society, Commissioner of the Queensland Ambulance Legislative Assembly 8841 4 August 1994

Service. I am sure that the discussions were no new taxes. That is on top of the annual CPI cordial and beneficial to both parties. It is adjustment that families will have to bear—a $10 interesting and heartening to note that during per year increase in the cost of vehicle those discussions there was acknowledgment registrations this year and an increase of up to that perhaps too many changes were made too $16 per household as a result of the quickly since the creation of the Queensland performance dividend forced upon local Ambulance Service in 1991. governments. Even without the CPI adjustments When the ALP came to power in 1989, the to State Government charges, families have to ideologists in the party got a rush of blood, pay in the order of $30 extra per year for these despite the Premier telling them to go away and three charges alone. have a cold shower. Without any caution, they It is for that reason that I move for the threw aside proven practices and dedicated disallowance of this regulation. No doubt the public servants. They were the Government and Government members will argue that a $2 per they intended to install their own theoretical family rise is a trifling amount. My answer to that is practices. The QAS is just one of those victims. this—the Deputy Premier consistently professes The replacement of ambulance boards with to care for the battlers. Well, $2 extra per family LACs was in itself flawed in one major way: it took does impact strongly on the low-income families. away adequate community representation. In fact, a check of Hansard will show that many Thankfully, it has now been realised that the role Labor members have spoken out strongly of the LAC must be altered to some degree to against similar increases in State charges in the allow a greater degree of local input. past. If they were concerned then about the In the interim, there has been a tragic loss of impact of increased State charges, where is their community support for the Ambulance Service. concern now? Where is the consistency? Instead of being referred to as "our ambulance Earlier this year, the Treasurer, the centre", these days we find people referring to Honourable Keith De Lacy, lectured the "the ambulance centre". I notice a change in the Brisbane City Council for increasing rates and the character and ethos of the service; it has taken impact that that had on the working class families on the characteristics of a public service rather of Brisbane. Mr De Lacy insisted that Lord Mayor than a local service. Jim Soorley was a Bollinger Bolshevik. He The Government now realises that publicly chastised Mr Soorley for complaining community financial assistance is vital. It is about his own new tax on the battlers—the pleasing that there are signs in the community performance dividend payable to the QTC. that the public support is coming back for the Government members need to search their ambulance centres again. It is in that context that consciences for the impact that they are having I decided to move for the disallowance of this on the ordinary families of Queensland. If they regulation. support the Queensland Treasury Corporation performance dividend, if they support this The regulation at issue today has raised increase in QAS subscriptions of 20 per cent or QAS charges—subscriptions for families, single more over two years, then they can hardly claim persons and pensioners—and also raised the to be representing the battlers. charges for non-subscribers. They are not enormous increases, but my protest is that they That falls into the overall scheme of State come so soon after far more significant increases charges, and the nature of State charges is that in subscriptions and charges in the past 12 they are levied before profit. They are an months. Those increases were in the order of 18 overhead that must be borne and, in those per cent, making a 20 per cent increase in two instances, they are a regressive tax. There is no years—10 per cent per annum—which is much sliding scale of State charges that relates to a higher than the rate of inflation. It is part of a person's income. The only relief is in the form of general trend of the Government. Most subsidies to apply to such people as pensioners. Government charges are automatically adjusted In most cases, everyone cops the full whammy annually in accordance with the rise in the CPI. from State charges before they have made any When we consider the myriad Government sort of profit at all. charges that exist and the increase per family Speaking of battlers, that term does not overall, the impact of them is not inconsiderable. apply only to low wage earners. Currently, in The research of the Leader of the many parts of Queensland, especially rural Opposition shows that the average Queensland Queensland, many people in private businesses family is paying approximately $2,400 more per are outlaying huge amounts of money each year annum in taxes and charges since Labor came to in their endeavours to earn a living and make a power than in December 1989. That is $2,400 profit. However, because of the recession and per family! So much for the Premier's promise of because of the prolonged drought, these 4 August 1994 8842 Legislative Assembly people are either making a loss or a ridiculously is that, since then, people's confidence has low profit. Now, many rural families have an suffered. I hope that it can be restored but, in the annual income of less than $20,000 a year. In short term, people harbour bitter memories of common with the low wage earners, the being ripped off. They have seen their money unemployed and the pensioners, for many taken into the QAS and spent elsewhere—local people in private enterprise these latest money spent elsewhere. Those people do not increases represent just another increase in care a damn for the excuse that the funds were Government charges. used to provide better services elsewhere in the Recently, I was interested to read a State. It was their money, it is gone and now they newspaper article about the Minister, who was at are being forced to top up the QAS budget with that time opening a new feature of the another $4m. They are being charged twice. communications centre. The paper reported that They have given once willingly, and now they are at that opening, the Minister made the statement paying by compulsion. They will not forget it. that the QAS was now over the hump. I repeat: Mr Burns is very sensitive about this issue. "over the hump." That statement is in line with Throughout the State, his comments in which he statements made to me by officers of the accuses me and my colleagues of attacking QAS department when I spoke to them on Tuesday. staff and LACs are raced into print. That is where They recognised that there had been a problem. the Minister is wrong. The reality is that the That statement in itself is an admission that there Opposition has never been critical of QAS staff, was a problem. I sincerely hope that the QAS is LACs or subscribers. We have always aimed our over that hump and that things are moving up. criticism at the cause of the problem—the However, I will continue to tell the people of Ministers and the policies that they have Queensland that the inept management by Mr implemented. Not once is it on record that the Warburton and Mr Braddy in the past created that Opposition has attacked the staff of the QAS. hump to which Mr Burns referred recently. I am The Opposition is attacking the policies and the going to continue to tell the people of mismanagement of the Ministers who preceded Queensland that Labor caused the financial this Minister. problems of the QAS and that now the Mr Burns interjected. subscribers and clients of the QAS are being Mr LITTLEPROUD: The Minister will have called upon to rescue the service. I will bet his turn later on. He should read his press London to a brick that Mr Burns will launch into a releases. What I have to say makes the heated defence of the expenditure of those Government and the Minister squirm. Mr Burns is QATB funds that were squandered by his reacting very badly. He tries to misrepresent the predecessors. He will rant and rave and insist that situation and, in desperation, in the rural press the money was used to provide QAS services he refers to others and myself as "whingers". throughout the State. I have heard those words before, "We have provided ambulance services Mr Burns: You don't want it to work throughout the State." No matter how much he properly. gilds the lily, he will never convince the people in Mr LITTLEPROUD: Here he goes again. those centres who saw their reserves disappear Mr Burns will have to listen to this. If the Ministers that they have not been dudded. The people of in the past have made mistakes, then they will those centres had reserves for new centres, new have to cop the criticism. That is what it is all vehicles and new equipment for themselves. about. Those former ambulance boards received The QAS needs the local ambulance tremendous support from their local committees. They provide advice but, most communities. There was an undeniable sense of importantly, they raise some money. That raises community ownership of those ambulance the question, what role should LACs play in centres. In those communities, there was a fundraising? It will be claimed that those funds readily acknowledged civic responsibility that enhance the QAS budget. If that is the case, I will everyone had to support their local ambulance support it. centre. Service clubs staged special events for the ambulance centres. Families left part of their I refer to a memorandum from the estates to the local ambulance centre. Queensland Ambulance Service issued to all the LACs. The memorandum lists things that the Mr Pitt: And still do. LACs might consider purchasing from their funds Mr LITTLEPROUD: I take that for their QAS centres. Members should listen to interjection. Thankfully, they are starting to do so this list and then decide whether these items are again. People were willing to give money to an items that enhance the efforts of the QAS, or are ambulance officer at the gate of a show or at a items that should be provided by the stall in a shopping centre. The undeniable truth Government. It lists for purchase items such as Legislative Assembly 8843 4 August 1994 semi-automatic defibrillators—fair enough—and its responsibility and having other people pay. radio communication equipment—maybe—but Yet it is taking more money off people. then the list refers to some fairly basic items. The Budget papers for Emergency Services According to this list, if a person is faced with an this year include the claim that over half of the emergency, when the ambulance arrives, QAS staff will have completed their diploma ambulance officers may not have an immediate qualifications by December this year. I hope that response kit, a burns kit or even stretchers. I that turns out to be case. However, during the would have thought that those are the types of Estimates committee hearing, information was items that would have had to have been given to me that indicated that approximately supplied. They are the basics. two-thirds of the ambulance officers in the south- Mr Burns: They are. western region were not even regarded as being Mr LITTLEPROUD: Why are they listed proficient in their training, let alone their further as items to enhance the Ambulance Service? It is qualifications. There were concerns expressed like the criticism that the Government makes by a training officer of the Ambulance Service about P & Cs being made to buy toilet paper and that these people may face legal liabilities if they chalk. What a lot of rot! I am talking about the treated people when they were considered to be sorts of things that should be provided by the not proficient and unqualified. Government. The Government has to provide Mr Burns: Did you check it out to find out if the basics, and the funds raised by LACs should that was correct? only enhance the budget. People are being Mr LITTLEPROUD: It came from the charged another $4m, and then the Government training officer. is saying, "Let us provide a bit more enhancement for basics such as a first-aid kit and Mr Burns: Did you check it out? We gave a burns kit." you the opportunity to talk to the officers. Did you ask them if it was correct? I have vivid memories of the fallacious claims of Labor members who attacked school grants Mr LITTLEPROUD: I have not done that. made by the former Government. They whinged Has the Minister checked it out? He will have his about them all the time. They claimed that all chance later on. I received that information from a sorts of things were not provided and now, in training officer. regard to the Queensland Ambulance Service, Mr Burns: You know it's not true. You those claims have come back to bite them. know that bloke was wrong. Those Labor members do not tell the public that, Mr LITTLEPROUD: I do not know if the under Labor's schools grants, schools must now man was wrong. The Minister wishes that he was. buy their own essentials. It is a bogus grant for I base my objection to this regulation on two schools, and the same thing is occurring with the grounds: over the past 12 months, subscribers Queensland Ambulance Service. were paying for huge increases that were way I want to talk about the use of these funds to above the rate of inflation and represented a real provide training of ambulance staff. The QAS financial burden for low income earners, and the should be commended on that. The QAS Government is now using unfair increases in deserves credit for moving to increase the subscriptions and charges to gather even more qualifications of its staff. Much has been made of tax. The Government is embarking upon a the number of people undertaking the diploma program of providing less of its QAS budget from course, and the Opposition supports this Treasury and more and more from LACs and the training. However, I want to bring to the attention subscribers of Queensland. I believe that this of the House two significant facts. During practice is unfair and unacceptable. I urge all questioning in the Estimates committee honourable members to vote for the hearings, both the Minister and the disallowance of this regulation. commissioner admitted that more and more of Sitting suspended from 1.01 to 2.30 p.m. the cost of training will now fall upon the staff themselves, yet the QAS is increasing the Mr COOPER (Crows Nest) (2.30 p.m.): I subscription costs. The QAS is reducing its have pleasure in taking part in this debate and in contribution to training. It intends to have staff seconding this motion. I believe that as far as undertaking their training in their own time. The ambulance charges are concerned this motion reality is that the QAS is providing less for this for disallowance is timely. Honourable members important aspect of the service. The reality also is will recall that 12 months ago we went through that someone else other than the Government is this very same exercise. That is why I say that it is paying for that training—in this case, the staff. timely to keep an eye on the costs of the This is just another version of Labor abrogating Ambulance Service. 4 August 1994 8844 Legislative Assembly

I think it is generally accepted that everyone much, but we have to consider what that has wants to see an Ambulance Service that works meant over the last few years. We have seen and does its job of providing a service to major rises in that time. Last year, the family patients. Unfortunately, over the past few years, subscription went from $66 to $78. Soon, it will particularly under the leadership of Mr Warburton go up to $80. In the space of 12 months, that is a and Mr Braddy, the Ambulance Service almost substantial increase. That $14 is a lot for a family. fell apart, to such a degree that it was quite However, the increase is crueller for the alarming. The people who were suffering and paying the price in more ways than one were the poorer people of this State who cannot afford to patients and people in the community who had pay that $78, now $80, in one hit. Those families done so much to make that Ambulance Service were invited to pay $1.85 per week. Although what it was. Those people had built up such a that might sound okay, very kind and generous, very close community rapport with the service when that amount is multiplied over 52 weeks, it that it was quite alarming for many of them to see comes to $96.20 per year. So the people who their ambulance service, something that had cannot afford to pay the family subscription in become part of their community, disintegrating one hit are now paying $96.20. The Minister before their very eyes. might like to indicate whether that fee, also, has gone up, leaving the poorer people even worse Queenslanders have been asked to pay an off. Now, poorer people are paying at least extremely high price for mismanagement during $16.20 more than the ordinary family. To me, that that period. I know that quite a few personnel is a slap in the face for those people who simply changes have been made in the meantime. I cannot afford to pay the subscription in one hit. guess it remains to be seen whether they are for The Minister might like to address that issue. The the better. But, as I said, it is timely and Government is talking about putting up fees all of necessary to move motions for the disallowance the time. It might like to consider bringing fees of regulations such as this, in particular when down for those who are finding it difficult to pay. there has been so much concern expressed about loss of funds, faith, confidence and Honourable members might recall that for service. We probably need to have such non-subscribers last year the price rises got out discussions on an annual basis. of control. There were increases of up to 288 per cent. Now we are seeing, as the member for I do not have to remind people, but I will, of Western Downs has said, rises of another 10 per the massive amount of money that has cent on top of that. I ask: when does it stop, and disappeared or has been spent in other areas. why is it so soon after those previous massive Do honourable members remember the rises? I guess we know that it is because of the $44m—the QATB working committee account bureaucratic spending that went on over the past balance, the QATB's working account and trust three years—the massive waste—that has led to account? All of the money raised and items the cost increases that have caused so many purchased by people in the community over problems to so many people. We saw the fee for generations has gone. That was the start of the the first 24 kilometres go up from $114 to $116 budgetary rot and the other problems that and then to a massive $250. Today, we see the affected the Ambulance Service. fee going from $250 to $256. In my time, I have been the Minister responsible for the Ambulance Service. I know We also see a rise in the price per kilometre. that it may have been described as old fashioned It went from $2.85 last year up to $8.35, a then, but it certainly delivered a service to the massive jump—about 288 per cent. Now, that people at a very reasonable cost. That is what is fee has gone up to $8.55. For example, take a so important, because a lot of people are not in 260 kilometre round trip by ambulance from the rich brigade. It worries the Opposition that Toowoomba to Brisbane that just prior to this the Government is pricing ambulance services time last year cost $684.40. To calculate the out of the reach of ordinary people. I will cost, we had to deduct the first 24 kilometres demonstrate that shortly. from the total of 260 and multiply the result by $8.35. When the fee increased, we had to The cost rises have been spelt out by the multiply that figure by $8.55. That came to member for Western Downs, the Opposition $1,970.60. That was a rise from $684 to $1,970, spokesman, who has moved this motion of and still the price goes up. That is a staggering disallowance. We have seen the subscription figure. When we round that trip up, because we rise from $78 to $80. We have seen the fee for then have to add the $256 minimum fee on—— service—that is, the fee for those who are not subscribers—go from $250 to $256. The rate An Opposition member: You are better per kilometre will go from $8.35 per kilometre to off getting McIver's Transport. $8.55 per kilometre. That might not sound like Legislative Assembly 8845 4 August 1994

Mr COOPER: One could either get anywhere near as high as they were last year, McIver's Transport or a luxury limousine to they have still come too soon after the massive transport patients; it would be cheaper. The rises that we had last year. We must maintain a Government is pricing the Ambulance Service constant audit so that these rises do not get out out of the reach of people. I know what the of control as they did once before. I certainly Government is trying to do; it is trying to support this disallowance motion. bludgeon people into paying the family Mr PITT (Mulgrave) (2.40 p.m.): Today, we subscription. But the people the Government is are witnessing through these disallowance affecting are those who simply cannot afford the motions another time-wasting exercise by the family subscription in the first place. They are Opposition. It is another exercise in hypocrisy. forced to take a massive risk. Not even a member of the National Party could For example, the trip from Brisbane to the honestly argue that the price of a large bottle of Gold Coast, which is about 80 kilometres, is Coke per family per year—two dollars—is $160, less 24 kilometres. That comes to $136. If enough to warrant this debate. It is not even four we multiply that by $8.35, now $8.55, that figure, cents per week, and here we are debating it. Of which was then $1,135—and with the $250 course, the real agenda for Opposition members added on—becomes $1,385.60 for a trip that is to scuttle the Ambulance Service, as they are once upon a time cost $390. That figure will go fearful of it becoming yet another good news even higher this year. It is a massive increase. story of the Goss Government. Let me cite a few figures for the The truth is that the people of Queensland Hughenden-Townsville run. That trip would have are happy with their Ambulance Service. They cost about $6,276. It will go up now, because realise that it is in a superior state now than it was there is another 20c per kilometre. The trip from in 1991-92 when we first changed the system. Charters Towers to Townsville would cost about Of course, over the last couple of years, $2,050. The figures were quite staggering, and members opposite have engaged in their usual they have just gone up again. Bureaucrats say, scare campaign. They have been frightening "We are going to stick the rate per kilometre up a people, encouraging them not to trust the few cents. What does it matter?" However, they system, encouraging them to look for ways and should realise—and the honourable member means by which this Government was taking their should realise this; he comes from the money away from them. The truth of the matter is country—that this country suffers from the that the Ambulance Service is in a better tyranny of distance. If we multiply that $8.55 by situation now than it was before, and those the distance that people have to travel, the figure moneys raised by ambulance committees have really starts to mount up. been put back into the service itself. Not one As I say, it is no use trying to bludgeon cent of that money has been taken away and families into paying the subscription. Even at shoved into consolidated revenue. $80, or whatever it is now, the subscription is still It is obvious that the plan of members a big slug on people who are going through opposite is to get as many people as possible recession, depression and rough times. If the disenchanted with the Ambulance Service so Government is really fair dinkum about doing that the number of subscribers falls. That tactic is something for the ordinary person, it should not working, because in the last 12 months concentrate on helping them instead of subscriptions in this State have increased by 12 constantly putting up prices. per cent. That is because we now have better As I have said, I believe that the Government marketing methods and because there is an is trying to drive people into paying the increased community faith in their Ambulance subscription by using a sledgehammer. The Service. I noted that the previous speakers kept Government is also taking that service away from on referring to "their" Ambulance Service, as the people. It is affordable only for the rich. The though suddenly the people of Queensland Government is pricing the service away from the have given it away; as though they do not community-based service we once knew and out recognise their local ambulance as belonging to of the reach of many people. The Government is them. Of course it belongs to them—probably heading towards the user-pays principle. Again, even more significantly now, because they have this might be quite okay in certain circumstances, a real Ambulance Service that services all people but not for the general run of people. I think the equally across the State of Queensland. Government is heading towards that self-funding It is true to say that, in the transition from the idea of imposing an ambulance tax, which is the QATB to the QAS, there were problems that with sort of thing that has been mooted before. the benefit of hindsight could have been Today, we are dealing with the disallowance handled differently. But what did the Opposition of these rises. As I said, while they are not expect? After all, we took what was effectively 96 4 August 1994 8846 Legislative Assembly different Ambulance Services and married them member for Lockyer, Mr FitzGerald, the member into the one service. If anyone thinks that was for Tablelands, Mr Gilmore, and the then Liberal easy, just ask the Nationals why they did not member for Currumbin, Mr Coomber, supported have the courage to do it in their 30 years of rule. the establishment of the QAS. It was a They did not have the courage to make these unanimous vote of that committee that the necessary changes. changes that were suggested be implemented Mr Cooper: Why don't you leave it alone? by the Labor Government. Mr PITT: "Leave it alone." That is the As a member of that committee, I can tell the answer of the member opposite to everything. House that we were unanimous in the view that "Leave life as it is. Do not change it. Do not the old QATB had come to the end of the road. improve it. Do not make things any better; just However, it is now a matter of history that, when it leave them as they are." came time to implement the recommendations of the committee via the Ambulance Service Act of It was not as though members opposite 1991, the Liberals and their National friends were not aware of the problems associated with stood opposed to the reform, despite their the borough-style Ambulance Service we had, support on the committee. Since then, they and that is why they tinkered around with the have consistently undermined the service, and legislation in 1985 without making any real today they are at it again. changes. It is typical of their ostrich-type I want to contrast the Ambulance Service of administrative reform that they left the real reform today with that under the Nationals. For a start, up to a Labor Government to implement. The when the Ambulance Service Act came into undeniable fact is that something had to be done being, we had 96 local committees. Today, there to unify the service to make it responsive to the are 130, which to my mind speaks volumes for demands of modern-day Queensland. the level of public confidence that exists in the Something had to be done to improve training. service. I want to place on record today my Access to training for many ambulance officers appreciation of the work done by local was almost nonexistent. Now at least we have a ambulance committees, especially those in my system whereby ambulance officers throughout own electorate. If I may, I would like to take a the State have access to a workable, structured minute of the time of the House to pay special training regime. Members opposite were not up tribute to the LACs at Babinda, Edmonton and to the task of providing career paths for officers. Gordonvale for their hard work in assisting those We had officers in Queensland who could not ambulance stations to function in the way they move from one part of the State to another do. Of course, it goes without saying that the without uprooting their families and basically officers of those centres provide an excellent leaving behind their possessions, because there service to the public, but I know that they are was no way of transferring people; they assisted greatly by the excellent support given to belonged to different services. them by the LACs, which are very keen to raise The equipment being used by ambulance funds and assist the local ambulance officers to officers was in serious need of upgrade. provide the level of service we want. I might add Members opposite were not interested in that. that the financial support is also helpful. Last "Leave it as it is." That is their attitude to year, for example, the Babinda LAC budgeted everything. They did not even make any real for $5,400 worth of enhancements to the attempt to improve the subscription rates. They station, while the Gordonvale and Edmonton talk about the cost of services for LACs budgeted $10,801 and $6,240 non-subscribers. The answer is getting people respectively. to subscribe to their Ambulance Service. No real Whilst on the subject of the ambulance attempt was ever made to improve the protocols activities in my electorate, I want to point out that, that ambulance officers use in the discharge of when I was first elected in 1989, defibrillators or their duties. It is a surprise that officers in this heart starters were not in every first-response State were able to deliver the level of service that ambulance vehicle. That is no longer the case, as they did in spite of the problems that had been all such vehicles now are equipped with these handed to them by a Government that basically important lifesaving devices. I point out to the did not care about making necessary changes. member for Crows Nest that one will not get them The National and Liberal Party members in a limo between Longreach and Charleville. opposite would do well to obtain a copy of the One needs an ambulance vehicle for those report of the parliamentary select committee of things, and one needs trained ambulance inquiry into ambulance services, for in that report officers to be in them. the reader will find that the National Party At Yarrabah, which is a small town in my members of the committee—and I thank them for electorate, the QAS is spending $20,000 in the efforts that they put into that inquiry—the upgrading the station. The Yarrabah Community Legislative Assembly 8847 4 August 1994

Council and the QAS are involved in those small, isolated and previously neglected negotiations to train local student ambulance areas. The Minister has signalled his intention to officers. This is an initiative which I recruit ambulance officers from smaller centres welcome—and one, I might add, which would not themselves, which of course enhances the have happened under the old system. As a service in those communities. matter of fact, the good people of the Aboriginal It goes without saying that it was always community of Yarrabah did not have an going to be difficult to establish a new ambulance service. In the past, they had to ring Ambulance Service in this State. I do not wish to Gordonvale, some 40 kilometres away, to have anyone think that I am knocking the old summon an ambulance. It took 20 minutes for QATB system totally, nor the people who served the ambulance to get there, but members in that. It served the State very well for nearly 100 opposite did not care about making sure that years. However, as I already said, it was no longer everyone in Queensland had access to an responding to the needs of Queenslanders and ambulance service. Because the people of the needs that we will experience in the future. Yarrabah could not afford it, could not pay for it, The new system has had some teething could not come up with the necessary funds to problems, but it is a fact that the ambulance start off an ambulance station, they did not officers are now better paid and better trained receive one. That is how much members than they were under the old system. opposite cared about the people of Ambulance vehicles are now better equipped Queensland! with lifesaving devices than they were. Approval has been granted for the Communications are better. As to the general upgrading of the Babinda centre to proceed. I am state of buildings—they have also been very pleased that $168,000 has been approved improved as part of a program of upgrading. The to purchase the land for a joint facility at Opposition knows all this, but it continues with its Edmonton, which I hope will incorporate the fire knocking in the vain hope that these tactics will services and the ambulance under the one roof. somehow derail the progress of the service. It is The short message is that the QAS is not working. responding to needs within my electorate. Time expired. Although I am always out there lobbying for more funds for the service, I would have to say that I am Mr HORAN (Toowoomba South) satisfied with the QAS efforts to provide a quality (2.49 p.m.): I join in this disallowance motion on service within the electorate of Mulgrave. the Ambulance Service Amendment Regulation (No. 2). I think the previous speaker has really I want to make some comments as the chair tried to cloud the issue of what this entire debate of the Premier's Northern Rural Task Force, is all about. This is not the first time we have seen because it is my perception that the great news increases in the cost of these particular charges. story of the QAS is the fact that the service now Last year, we saw a massive increase in the family has the capacity to provide services in rural areas rate from $66 to $78. There were massive of Queensland—the areas members opposite increases last year and they are ongoing this purport to represent, which were underserviced year. Particularly, last year, the call-out charge in the past. It is this Government that has been was increased from $116 to $250, and there was able to provide a service that is professional an increase in the kilometre rate from $2.90 to enough and well structured enough to get those $8.35. People are being charged the call-out services right across the length and breadth of rate on an individual basis. I know of cases where the State. In fact, under the QATB system, a four or five people have been picked up in one community had to be of a reasonable size and ambulance and the charge has been well over wealth in order to establish a service. That was $1,000 for about a 5-kilometre or 6-kilometre run. not just in the case of Yarrabah; that was In the example, the destination was the reflected right across the whole of the State. Toowoomba General Hospital. That is no longer the case, as the service is designed to respond to the needs right across Mr Burns interjected. Queensland. In my view, there is now a greater Mr HORAN: If it was $250 just for the capacity to respond to demands for ambulance ambulance itself, that would be enough, but and emergency services in smaller communities. $1,250 is incredible—and this case involved Those little people to whom members young teenagers. opposite refer have a far better service now, and One of the reasons that the Opposition is that is the direction in which we should be debating this disallowance motion is the fact that heading. Evidence of this is that the Minister money has been taken from ambulance centres recently inspected smaller communities in the throughout Queensland. We have seen the way cape and Torres Strait region and has asked his that money has been squandered and the way department to look at ways to provide services to that promises have been made but have not 4 August 1994 8848 Legislative Assembly been delivered. One would think that if Ambulance Service, under the new system we ambulance fees went up and if the service was as have two additional levels of bureaucracy before good as the Government says it is, then the a car is actually driven out on the road. That promises that were made two or three years ago means that these different levels of bureaucracy would be able to be delivered. I refer particularly introduced at the station itself have to be gone to the promise made before the 1992 election of through before the people who drive the vehicle $500,000 for refurbishment of the Toowoomba out and do the job can do just that. They are the Ambulance Centre. Honourable members ones who think, "Where is all this money going should bear in mind that the Toowoomba to?" There are increased fees and charges and Ambulance Centre had $1.7m of funds taken all these promises for new centres and from it when the new system was introduced. refurbishment of centres. Obviously, the The board of that centre and the people of promises are hollow promises. The promise that Toowoomba and the district raised $1.7m of was made two years ago was a pretty callous one, funds for that centre, probably with the legitimate because obviously it was intended as nothing view that those funds would be used in their own other than an election promise made in an area in a time to come. endeavour to hold on to the one remaining Eventually, before the 1992 election there Labor seat in the Toowoomba area—which was was the promise of refurbishment of the lost, anyway. ambulance station, and through successive I want to talk about the needs of the Ministers that promise has been reiterated. I ambulance centre in Toowoomba. A trial has received a letter from Mr Braddy, when he was been undertaken at Highfields. A vehicle has the Minister responsible for ambulance services, been placed out there, but it is notable that that detailing the program of works. Had we followed vehicle has not been able to be provided at that program of works, the centre would have Highfields all of the time due to a lack of funds been finished a long time ago. In January this and resources. However, previously, an amount year, the Toowoomba Chronicle ran an article on of $1.7m was available. That was to be used to that particular project. It stated that the build an ambulance centre on the western side Queensland Ambulance Service was promising of Toowoomba in the area of Wilsonton. I that tenders would be called and that everything understand that the land has been or will be would be in order by the beginning of February. disposed of. That money was also intended to Here we are in August, two years since that be used to fund an ambulance centre at Budget announcement in 1992, and tenders Withcott, below the range, but that land has also have still not been finalised. We are only at the been disposed of and used for a bus terminal. If stage at which tenders have been accepted. The those two pieces of property have been decision is yet to be made, or an announcement disposed of and if the plans for the future that is yet to be made as to who is the successful were made by the previous board have been tenderer and when the job will start. destroyed, it is certainly important that the So, once again, we move into another Ambulance Service now give some financial year waiting for the job to start. Some consideration to what alternative services will be $300,000-odd worth of works was to be provided in Toowoomba. There is certainly a undertaken for essential requirements such as a need for additional ambulance services in the locker room and the communications room. south of Toowoomba, in the rapidly growing K Stage II is also desperately needed, which mart or university area of Toowoomba. I believe involves approximately another $200,000. That that in the future there will also be a need for an was promised in the Budget this year. I wonder ambulance to be stationed at the hospital. whether that money will be provided. There is an urgent need—and this is quite Commonsense would say that that amount of an important need—for an air ambulance service money would be spent so that Stage II would from south-west Queensland into Toowoomba follow on directly from Stage I. or Brisbane. The people who would use this type I think the staff at the Toowoomba of service would be brought in from areas such Ambulance Centre have been particularly as Charleville and Roma, and they would be tolerant. The staff and the unions have heard people with complicated fractures, or maybe these promises over and over again. They have cancer patients. At the moment, people in those seen these fees and charges going up year after circumstances have to travel all that distance in year. Last year, they saw the massive increase in the back of a vehicle. There are five air charges, and they have seen it again this year. ambulances in the service in Queensland: three They see all these charges and they think, based at Rockhampton and two based in the "Where is the money going? Is it going to Bundaberg area. If there was an additional air administration? If it is, what is the administration ambulance, the service could be integrated so doing?" In the management of the Queensland that some additional service could be provided to Legislative Assembly 8849 4 August 1994 the south west of the State. That would certainly In conclusion, I would like to reiterate the be an excellent move for the Ambulance Service need for an air ambulance from the south west. I to consider in terms of quality transport of these join with my colleagues in supporting this people. disallowance motion. I cannot emphasise how Frequently we refer to these matters of much ambulances fees have gone up. I cannot increased fees, the squandered $42m and the emphasise enough the problems of lost funds that boards had, such as the funds communication. Just the other day I heard a story that were raised by the Lions Club in from the Mount Perry Hospital. Staff at that Toowoomba for a four-wheel-drive ambulance hospital used to ring the ambulance staff at Gin which was taken from Toowoomba, which is the Gin and they would come straight up. In this only major provincial city sitting on top of a instance, they had to ring Bundaberg and, mountain without a four-wheel-drive vehicle. unfortunately, the person at Bundaberg said, Every time we bring up these legitimate "Where is Gin Gin and where is Mount Perry?" complaints about the lack of capital works and the That person did not even know where those broken promises, the Minister turns around and places were. What sort of service is that? That is says it is an attack on the staff. I say that the staff the type of complaint we are hearing all the time. in Toowoomba have been absolutely fantastic to Time expired. put up with all the humbug and broken promises Mrs WOODGATE (Kurwongbah) (3 p.m.): that the Minister has put forward. Mr Deputy Speaker—— All we are trying to do is get a decent Mr Horan interjected. ambulance service and a decent facility for the town. I would like to know what the Minister Mr Burns interjected. would have to say if all these broken promises Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): related to Cannon Hill. He would be screaming Order! I warn the member for Toowoomba South from the rooftops, "What are they doing about and I warn the Deputy Premier. poor Cannon Hill?" In Toowoomba, $1.7m was Mr Cooper interjected. taken from the district, a paltry $500,000 offered back in two years, and not $1 spent yet—not one Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The hole drilled for the new refurbishment. member for Crows Nest! I cannot speak highly enough of the unions Mrs WOODGATE: After listening to the and the staff who have put up with these broken member for Toowoomba South, I really believe promises from this Minister, from Mr Braddy and that this debate is not about the $1 and $2 rises from Mr Warburton. Not one of those three in ambulance subscriptions; it is not about the Ministers has delivered once. I cannot speak too efficiency of the Ambulance Service; and it is not highly of the staff because they have had to put about the structure of the Queensland up with broken promises. They have put up with Ambulance Service. It is about the a lack of facilities. Before the money was taken National/Liberal Parties' continued strategy of from the previous ambulance board, it had destruction of the Queensland Ambulance planned to increase the facilities that were Service. The real agenda for this National Party is provided. The staff have sat there and put up to tear down as many structures as it can in this with the broken promises. They have put up with State in a feeble effort to gain credibility. The all the humbug and yelling from the Minister. Leader of the Opposition, the member for Surfers Paradise, is performing so badly that he Now we come to the real acid test. Will the thinks that the way to claw his way into the hole Minister go ahead and do these works and will he he has dug is to undermine and tear down every go ahead with Stage II as well, which involves the institution and every worthwhile structure in this provision of the extra $200,000 that he promised State and then promise to build bigger and in the Budget? This will be his test. Mr Braddy brighter ones. We have seen this in debates failed; Mr Warburton failed. Now we will see about corrective services. We have seen it in the whether this Minister has the guts and the health sector and in education: you name the capabilities to go ahead with the promises made structure, and the National/Liberal Parties have in the Budget for the third time. This is the third had a go at it. year in a row that this Government has made exactly the same promise. As I have said, I cannot Let me talk about the system of speak too highly of what the staff has done. The ambulancing that the Nationals favoured when staff are the ones who are quietly putting up with they were on this side of the House. It is what they have, quietly hoping that next year the interesting that the sorts of charges laid against Minister might honour his promises, and now it the National Party Government by the Fitzgerald has reached the stage at which they have very inquiry were similar to those made against the little hope that it will ever eventuate. Ambulance Service at the time of the all-party 4 August 1994 8850 Legislative Assembly parliamentary select committee of inquiry into any ambulance officers anywhere in Australia. ambulance services. That is an undisputed fact. Honourable members will recall that Let me give the House an example—and "cronyism" was the buzz word that cropped up this is backed up by evidence given to the continually when the National Party Government inquiry by the Chairman of the QASB. If an officer was being discussed at the Fitzgerald inquiry. In fell foul of a committee, then he was given the 1990, at the ambulance inquiry, the use of the tap on the shoulder and told to seek terms "favouritism" and "cronyism" was employment elsewhere. The problem for the commonplace. In evidence before the officer then became finding another committee committee, the then Chairman of the that would take him. Often, of course, the word Queensland Ambulance Service Board, Mr was put out around the committees that the Moore, said— officer who was making inquiries was ". . . at the Committee level, cronyism does hopeless—or whatever terminology could be exist." used to discredit him—and no-one would take I refer honourable members, particularly him. The Ambulance Service lost many those opposite, to page 154 of the all-party competent officers that way, and those officers select committee report of the inquiry into had little or no redress. By the way, there were ambulance services. In answer to a question, Mr no redundancies such as those offered by this Moore said— Government, either. "At the Committee level, cronyism One aspect of the ambulance system under does exist . . . at Committee level, because a the Nationals for which they deserve nothing but person has been a relative of the Chairman contempt is the way they kept women out of the or the Deputy Chairman or a member of the service. The all-party committee discovered that Committee, or because he has been known equal opportunity is often not practised in the to the person, he has been appointed when QATB and that, at the time the Act was changed, he has not had the ability. The Board has only 3.5 per cent of the operational staff were had the problems of that person attending women. Worse still, the majority of honoraries the training school and the prep course and were women. In other words, women were good then being in a pass/fail situation. The Board enough to do the job for nothing, but when it has had to say, 'Well, you cannot come into came to getting paid for the work, the jobs went the brigade.' " to the boys. That is not surprising, given the views of our friends opposite of women in the Mr Moore then went on to outline the rorts and all work force and the fact that the boards were the scams that were pulled for people who were dominated by men. Thankfully, that is no longer the cronies of the committee—sending them off the case. Equal opportunity principles now apply to training courses, putting friends on as and, since they have, the number of women ambulance officers and keeping out good operational in the service has doubled. applicants simply because they were not liked or because they were the wrong politics, or for This is the system that our friends opposite want back: a system which discriminates; a whatever reason. So in fact, this is the way the system which looks after the cronies; a system system worked. If a person had friends on the which dead-ended careers; a system which was committee, that person was okay to get a job, fragmented; and a system which the Nationals on right to get trained and right to get other the all-party committee condemned. Even the preferential treatment, such as good rosters and most casual observer of the Ambulance Service so on. Put simply, it did not matter how good an can see the improvement, and the public ambulance officer a person was, if that person support is continuing to grow. Look at the was offside with the committee of the day, that increase in subscriptions and the fact that, person got nothing. That is the way things were whereas there were 96 committees running the under these Nationals, and that is the sort of Ambulance Service, we now have a unified system that they want us to go back to. system with 130 committees providing local We all know that the Nationals were totally input. anti-worker; there is plenty of evidence of that. Communications, which the all-party But the way that they allowed ambulance officers committee found were disjointed and, in a lot of to be treated under the QATB system was cases, inappropriate, are now better, as the nothing short of scandalous. Aside from the Dayboro incident—and Dayboro is a part of my blatant cronyism, Queensland ambulance electorate, and I remember this incident officers were the lowest paid and worst trained, well—where a man's life was saved as a result of and they had the poorest career opportunities of the competence of the officer, the equipment Legislative Assembly 8851 4 August 1994 available to him and the centralised communities to try to give those people a better communications system, proved. service so that they can provide a better service Typically, the Nationals are on a train to to the people in the areas that they represent nowhere with their strategy of hacking away at and look after." the Ambulance Service. This Government, on I go back a short while to the time when the the other hand, is committed to continuing the now Honourable Minister for Police, Paul Braddy, advancement of the service and those who work was the Minister responsible for the Ambulance within it. This Minister in particular, Minister Tom Service. He said that local communities would no Burns, is committed to the growth of the service longer have to raise money in order to keep their and has moved heaven and earth since taking on ambulances operational. The Minister said that the portfolio last year to reinstil public confidence the service would now be looked after by the in the service. I urge the Nationals and the Budget of the State Government and that Liberals to take a leaf out of his book. funding would go directly to the respective Accordingly, I urge the House to reject this centres. What a big joke! After $40m has been motion of disallowance. stolen from those centres, the present Minister, Mr JOHNSON (Gregory) (3.06 p.m.): I rise the Honourable the Deputy Premier, comes out to speak to this disallowance motion. The one and says that the money that is raised locally will issue that I really want to address is the fees and stay in those areas. That is a long way from charges that are levelled at sporting and charity addressing the real needs of rural ambulance organisations when they are conducting sporting services. events or other events in rural and country areas I have written to the Honourable the Deputy and they seek the services of an ambulance at Premier in relation to the regional coordinator those meetings. Prior to the change of being based at Barcaldine instead of Longreach. Government, the ambulance in those areas was I want to place on record that I told the Deputy sacred. It is still sacred, but now those fees must Premier that I believe the responsible thing to do be paid to those people. As many members is to locate that officer at the central location of would realise, the ambulance committees and Longreach. The operations of the State the Ambulance Service, in the long term, are the Emergency Service are based there and the recipients of the funds that are raised at those inspector of police is based there. Without events. I give the example of Jericho, where the doubt, Longreach is the centre of activity in that local rodeo is held once a year. There is also a region. I believe that the regional coordinator for local endurance ride. the Ambulance Service—and I hope that the Mr Cooper: A $400 profit. Deputy Premier will recognise the merit in my argument— should be based in Longreach. It is Mr JOHNSON: As the honourable central to Winton, Aramac, Barcaldine and member for Crows Nest just said, there is Blackall and to all the smaller communities in that probably a $400 profit in it. But by the time they region. It is of paramount importance that those pay for the ambulance, they are probably $500 services be centralised so that the various out of pocket. So it is a no-win situation. In many programs can be coordinated. cases, that is their one sporting day of the year. The whole case has been raped because of the I mention the situation at Springsure. My short-term view of this Government, which does colleague the member for Toowoomba South not understand how some of those smaller mentioned engaging ambulances after hours communities work. when the officers have knocked off. After the officers have gone home, if an ambulance has to I refer to Jericho again. There are about be activated in Springsure, the telephone call is eight honorary ambulance officers in Jericho. answered in Rockhampton. That ambulance is They take it in turns to supply the service to take activated from Rockhampton. That is a totally out that ambulance. They are the ones who, in unsatisfactory situation. If somebody has had a most cases, are paying the supreme sacrifice serious car accident on the Tambo Road, 40 because of the short-sightedness of this miles or 50 miles away, that person should not Government in implementing its policy without have to ring Rockhampton to activate an consultation. That is exactly what has happened ambulance. It could be a life or death situation. It here. is of paramount importance that we have the In relation to the QAS centres in the central control of those emergency services at our west and the Central Highlands—I have to say it, fingertips at all times. but I hate to say it: morale is at an all-time low in I believe that a need exists for a lot of some of those centres. Those people do not consultation not only with the people who work know who is on their side. Thank God the within the Ambulance Service but also the Minister has said, "Yes, the money raised by members of the local ambulance committees. I those local communities will stay in those 4 August 1994 8852 Legislative Assembly believe that those committees provide a great would not be true. That is a knock at that service. I place on record that they are doing ambulance officer in Bundaberg. Mr Horan is great work. However, they must have the picking on the staff, not on the system. He is not support of the Government—from the Minister picking on the system; he is picking on the down—to enable them to provide the services individual. Mr Horan is picking on an ambulance that members of the public need and deserve. officer in Bundaberg and saying that he is We need a good Ambulance Service which incompetent. That is what he put to this House. works in conjunction with hospitals and bush Mr Horan is the greatest moaner, whinger and clinics to address the needs of rural Queensland, whiner that this Parliament has ever seen. He particularly in some of the more remote areas. always knocks. He has not said a constructive My colleague the member for Toowoomba word in this House since the day he arrived. If he South mentioned aerial ambulances. I place on ever does, we will need an ambulance here, record my endorsement of the great retrieval otherwise most of the members in this place will work that the aerial ambulances are doing in the die of a heart attack. remote parts of Queensland. I hope that the The Opposition is not original in its antics in Government recognises the need for aerial relation to this matter. This is the same motion ambulances so that that service can be improved that Mr Cooper moved last year. It is the same old and expanded to enable it to cover a larger area. story. Hon. T. J. BURNS (Lytton—Deputy An Opposition member interjected. Premier, Minister for Emergency Services and Mr BURNS: The Opposition is not Minister for Rural Communities and Consumer keeping tabs on us, because all of the debate Affairs) (3.13 p.m.), in reply: I thank honourable today by members opposite was about last members for their contributions to the debate. year—not about this year. They did not talk about Firstly, I will say that I am a little concerned about what has happened in the service this year. They some of the things that have been said today, were whingeing about last year and the year and I wonder whether the people who said them before. are fair dinkum. This morning, a person claiming to be a staff member from Rob Borbidge's office In the last financial year, 12 per cent more contacted the QAS at Spring Hill to find out the people subscribed to the Ambulance Service in new rates and the old rates. She demanded that this State. Why? Let us consider the service that information about the old rates and the new rates honourable members opposite provided. They be faxed urgently to the Parliament House fax talk about consultation with ambulance groups. number that she provided. When a QAS officer Let us consider the recommendations of an all- rang her back, she was given verbal advice and party committee which included two members of asked what she wanted on the fax, but she the National Party and one member of the Liberal declined to say. It seems extraordinary that Party. What did the members of that committee members of the Opposition are disagreeing with say? In relation to consultation, the first thing that the costs and charges when this morning they they said was this— did not even know what they were. Talk about ". . . it was felt that there was a lack of prior pretenders! Talk about playboys! Members consultation with QATB committees . . ." opposite are playing with a very important They are the committees in the field. That was service. Mr Horan is out there arguing that we said in Mr Cooper's day, when he was the should spend more on the service but he does Minister. The committee went on to say— not want to raise any more money. He wants more money spent in Toowoomba. The bloke "All funds presently held by QATB from Longreach wants more money spent in that committees should be transferred to the town. All the members opposite want more QAS." money spent in their areas, but they do not want I repeat the words, "all funds". When those funds to raise more money. were transferred, members of the Opposition The argument was put forward that we said that they were stolen. Members of the should not charge people who do not pay National Party recommended the transfer of subscriptions. Why would anyone pay a those funds. The committee went on to say that subscription if there is no charge at all? I am not not all of the ambulance committees have money into ambulance chasing, and I am not into in the bank. knocking the workers. Mr Horan says that he Mr Cooper: You never spent it on service. does not knock the workers. Tomorrow morning, Mr BURNS: Of course we did. I will talk Hansard will show that at the end of his speech about service and what happened to the today the honourable member mentioned the money—$19m was spent on wages and Bundaberg ambulance officer who answered the conditions. The Opposition members of the phone and did not know where Gin Gin was. That Legislative Assembly 8853 4 August 1994 committee recommended that we run the service This year, the Goss Government will spend and pay for it out of the State Budget. When 118 per cent more on ambulance services than members opposite were in Government, many the National Party budgeted for and spent in its ambulance boards were in debt. Do not forget last year in Government. The Goss Government the indebtedness of those ambulance boards. will spend $62.8m this financial year, which There was a lack of training and skills, and there includes $12m for interhospital transfers. The were problems with cronyism. Officers were increases recognise the cost of running the going out in ambulances on their own. In my QAS. When we train these ambulance officers electorate, one ambulance officer turned up at today—and, sure, they train themselves—when the port to assist a person who had had a heart they receive their qualifications and attain those attack. That person died in the ambulance. The high skills that conform to national standards, members opposite knew that people would die. they get an extra $48 a week. They are out there They did nothing about it in their day; they did looking after people. The Nationals did not want nothing about providing services. In Vaughan ambulance officers trained. In their day, the Johnson's electorate, one bloke who was an Nationals did not train them. The Nationals did ambulance officer for 14 years could not pass a not pay them the right wages, and they sent first-aid test. poorly trained ambulance officers out to look Mr JOHNSON: I rise to a point of order. I after people. find that offensive. That remark is directed at a We now have a professionally trained man who gave continuous service to the St Statewide service that must be paid properly and John's Ambulance Service in that area. I will not serviced properly. Unlike Mr Cooper and other wear that. Opposition members, I do not want to go back to Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): the days of 96 chocolate wheels or caravans in Order! I warn the member for Gregory under the streets raising the money. I do not want to go Standing Order 123A. back to the days when the wives of ambulance Mr BURNS: The member will wear it—— officers would answer the phones and one officer went out on his own to attend to heart- Mr JOHNSON: I am not going to wear it! attack cases. I do not want to go back to the days Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have when there were no defibrillators—no Packer- already warned members. Under the provisions whackers, heart-start machines—to keep people of Standing Order 126, when the Deputy alive. During those days, there were 64 Speaker is on his feet members must resume defibrillators in the whole of the State, and they their seats. I have warned the member for were not even automatic. I do not want to go Gregory under Standing Order 123A for back to those days. disrespect to the Chair. The honourable member I want to talk about a day when people ring for Gregory cannot take a point of order on behalf of a person outside this Chamber. There is no for an ambulance and they see a properly point of order. trained, efficient health professional in a new vehicle, not in the vehicles they had to use Mr BURNS: On the recommendation of an under the Nationals. When this Government took all-party committee, the Government took over over, most vehicles were heritage items. In the an Ambulance Service staffed by people who Nationals' day, few vehicles were under eight were untrained. We had people in the service years of age. The Nationals did nothing about all who could not pass the basic test. The previous the inquiries that were undertaken. This Government used to send those people out on Government has done something about the the road. I can imagine what Mr Cooper would recommendations of the inquiries, and it is doing have said if they had picked up his daughter, his it properly. mother, his wife or his father on the road. If we had sent out one of those people who could not I turn now to training. Under the Nationals' pass the test, he would have been attacking us. system, the local committee decided who "Whingeing" Horan would have been on his feet, received training. Some officers received it; screaming, and complaining in the newspapers. some missed out. Today, the Nationals talked Mr Cooper knows that I speak the truth; he was about cheap service. They did run a cheap the responsible Minister. In his day as Minister, service. Their service was cheap, it was Mr Cooper failed to train ambulance officers, and miserable, it was nasty and it was lousy. However, he failed to spend the money that needed to be it was typical of the National Party. The only spent to provide the service. There were towns places that received good services were places throughout this State that had no services at all, in which rich people lived. If people had money, and he did nothing about it. they could afford the services. That is the way the Nationals regard health care. They provided a 4 August 1994 8854 Legislative Assembly cheap, miserable service to some towns and a they receive the $1m ambulance centre in that better service if a town could raise the money. town, whether they would have received such a By the end of this year, the Government centre under the Nationals. expects to have 89 per cent of Queensland's A Government member: How come ambulance officers completing the course to he's getting one? become highly skilled officers of a national standard. In doing so, they will be earning an Mr BURNS: Because the people of extra $48 a week. That is what the Government Emerald are entitled to it and not because of his should be doing for them. The wages bill for representation. In common with Mr Horan, he is a ambulance officers will increase throughout the failure in his representations. During all the days year as officers receive that extra money and the of pork-barrelling by the National Party when old Government is asking subscribers, who are Vince Lester was walking backwards—— receiving the better service, to pay extra money Mr Davidson interjected. for the better trained officers. If we do not train our officers, we are letting them down and we are Mr BURNS: The honourable member's letting down the people of Queensland. People electorate has received an $850,000 ambulance need to know when they get an ambulance at centre without any representations from him. their door that the officers are properly trained. The Government provided it because the locals Queensland has the best training system under wanted it. The Barambah electorate has received way and it will have the best ambulance service in two new ambulance stations at Nanango and Australia. Kilcoy. Neither of those towns had raised sufficient money to pay for the whole ambulance If there are problems in the Ambulance centre themselves. Under the National Party Service, the reason for them is the continued Government, neither town would have received knocking of the Opposition members who are an ambulance centre because they would have against the ambulance and against the worker. had to find the money themselves. They want to make certain that the Ambulance Service fails. If it fails, they will be happy. Under the National Party, the people of Instead of 96 boards, we have 130 local Emerald would not have received an ambulance ambulance committees that are working for the station because they would have had to find the Ambulance Service. I went to the LAC regional money themselves. Under the old system, that is conference in Rockhampton. At that conference the way it went. If an area did not have a rich local were delegates representing 103 LACs. They ambulance committee, that area did not receive were happy with the service. They were people assistance. Towns in which poor people lived from the local communities whom the Nationals which could not raise a lot of money did not tell me are all upset. I have to say that they were receive new vehicles. To receive such things, good people, who were prepared to put up with people had to live in larger areas. Under the the complaints, the whingeing and the knocking Nationals, that is the way it went. of the Horans, the Coopers, the Johnsons and The electorate of Charters Towers, which is the others. Last year, they raised $1.6m. represented by that very quiet bloke who we However, this Government is spending between never ever see here—I hope that we still do have $130m and $140m on the Ambulance Service. a member for Charters Towers; we might have to That level of funding cannot be achieved by local send an ambulance out looking for him—will fundraising. receive a new station. The LAC in Charters I refer to the cape. The Nationals never had Towers raised $250,000, but this Government an ambulance service for the people who lived in will give that committee an extra $600,000 to the area between Mareeba and Bamaga. In town build an ambulance station, which makes a total after town in this State people never had an of $850,000 that the people in that area would ambulance service, nor even a first-aid kit—no not have received from the National Party ambulance vehicle, no trained officers. The Government. Such areas never received such Nationals did not worry about those people. money under the National Party Government, Because they did not vote for the National Party, but they are receiving it from this Labor they did not count. Government. Recently, I visited Kuranda, talked to the Even the people of Monto, who had many LAC and decided on a location for a new complaints about the $204,000 that they raised, building. After sitting down with them, I decided will be given an extra $300,000 by this not to buy the site recommended by the Government to enable them to build a proper Ambulance Service but to buy a site ambulance station. This year, millions of dollars recommended by the LAC. Vaughan Johnson extra have been allocated in the Budget to might like to tell the people at Emerald, when provide those facilities. If the Nationals lived in Legislative Assembly 8855 4 August 1994 the present instead of the past, they would talk installed in Brisbane works as expected, the about what is happening in 1994 instead of what addresses of people who cannot talk at all can be happened in 1993 and 1992. found by computer. If a person has a stroke, but I turn now to ambulance vehicles, which is can still dial 000 we can get an ambulance to that another good-news story. This year, 28 new person. That is a massive improvement in two-stretcher ambulances will come into service, communications from the day when the wife of and five modular two-stretcher ambulance will the ambulance officer answered the telephone undergo chassis rebuilding. On top of that, 64 and sent her husband out. It was not so very long ago that they did that. new single-stretcher vehicles will be purchased. This Government will also buy 20 four-wheel- When did the Nationals ever have an drive ambulances. When was the last time the ambulance centre on Thursday Island in the Nationals ever did anything like that? There will Torres Strait? In the 30 years that the National be a record injection of $8.1m towards improving Party governed this State, why did the people and updating ambulances that will reduce living on any of the islands in the Torres Strait not significantly the average age of vehicles. Under have an ambulance service? Because the the Nationals, Queensland had one of the National Party Government did not regard people oldest, most miserable ambulance fleets in who are Aboriginal and Islanders as counting for Australia. much; they were not entitled to a service. Never once in the days of Mr Cooper, Mr Ahern and all The Nationals should pay particular attention of those other National Party Ministers did the to the upgrading of the training of the skills of the Nationals worry about the people in those areas. officers themselves. Doctors from all hospitals This Government is starting with a hovercraft, to are saying to us that people are arriving in a be located on Thursday Island. It is being built on better condition and with a greater chance of the Gold Coast now. People are going through survival than they ever have before. They are the process now of working out how to train alive. During the Nationals' day, we used to read officers to work on those islands. Why did the regularly in the newspapers about people being National Party or the Liberal Party not believe that picked up in an ambulance after an accident, but islander people were entitled to ambulance who later died on the way to hospital. Because of services? the installation of defibrillators in ambulances and One of the other great success stories is the the better training of officers, more people are baby capsule hire service through which this surviving. Government has been able to help people to People are voting with their pockets. They obtain a safe piece of equipment for their kids in are joining the subscription service. They are their cars to be installed by ambulance officers. joining the ambulance. The LACs are increasing, We have now got rid of the one that was causing and the Nationals are upset. I can understand some problems. We have introduced a whole why they are upset, and that is because the new piece of equipment throughout the service Ambulance Service is a success. I can itself. understand why the Nationals are My policy about sports in country areas is complaining—because something good is simple—and I am referring to the question from happening in the community. They do not want the member for Gregory, Mr Johnson. It comes anything good to happen in the community. I can down to this. The honourable member might like understand members of the National Party being to listen; he asked me this question. As to upset because they will not be able to use these ambulance services—where ambulances are things to belt people with around the ears day in required for first aid at functions, if organisers are and day out. National Party members referred to prepared to allow the ambulance to be called Springsure. If they went to Springsure, they away, the organisers should not be charged at would find out that, for the first time, the all. That is the policy that is laid down. The policy Springsure ambulance officers have full says simply this: if there is a football match or communication with the rest of the region. In the rodeo—and rodeos are a bit more difficult Nationals' day, they never had that because they generally want a dedicated service communication. The various branches of the all day—and if organisers are prepared to let the emergency services could not communicate with ambulance attend, for example, a car accident in each other. the town or elsewhere in the area, I do not believe they should be charged. But if those If National Party members travelled their organisers want to keep the ambulance there, electorates more often, they would find out what and I have to pay overtime to pay another is happening. For instance, this year, 18 radio ambulance officer—— sites will be improved, and 22 new repeaters will be installed. That is a big improvement in An honourable member interjected. communications. If the new 000 system that was 4 August 1994 8856 Legislative Assembly

Mr BURNS: Yes, the local bodies can parliamentary committee. All parties said that the negotiate it. In fact, we have inserted such a system had to be changed. provision because we do know that, for example, An Opposition member interjected. local LACs can talk to people and can find out who donates and who does not. Some of the Mr BURNS: The member opposite has furphies about rodeo organisers donating to the complained about the changing of the system. Ambulance Service turn out not to be true. A lot People do not like change. I can accept that. of them do. However, the changes have been for the better. The Ambulance Service is better today than it Mr Johnson interjected. was in the past, and I deplore the attacks on the Mr BURNS: I am not picking on Alpha. If staff. I deplore the mischief that the Opposition people believed all of the yarns, they would think has created in relation to communication centres, that these people always run things for the and the attacks it has made on the people who ambulance. That is not on at all. In instances run the service—the commissioner and his where the LACs know that—for example, the senior staff. The Opposition has done all of Alpha rodeo committee does raise money for the those things for political purposes and not for ambulance—the service can come to an any reason other than that it thinks there might arrangement whereby it does not charge. It is as be a vote in it. Let me tell honourable members simple as that. The local committee and local this: there are no votes in attacking the officer will have the right to have a say. That is Ambulance Service. The members of the written into the arrangement. We have Opposition will pay the penalty for their attacks negotiated with the show societies. Trevor on the people who are looking after their own. Perrett is an ex-show society person. Time expired. Mr Horan interjected. Mr Stoneman interjected. Mr BURNS: We have negotiated with the agricultural show chamber and it tells me that it is Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I warn quite happy with the arrangements that we have the honourable member for Burdekin. made. I have to say this: the Toowoomba show, Question—That the motion be agreed which is a big show, ought to pay for an to—put; and the House divided— ambulance service. It is a big commercial AYES, 30—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, operation. Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Goss J. N., Mr Horan: They always did. Healy, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, Mr BURNS: I agree; it always did. McCauley, Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, However, sometimes people get the idea that we Sheldon, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Turner, Veivers, have started some new charging regime that Watson Tellers: Laming, Springborg no-one else imposed. But the Haden or NOES, 51—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, Goombungee show is a different case. We ought Braddy, Briskey, Budd, Burns, Campbell, Clark, to be able to look at Haden and Goombungee Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, differently from the way in which we look at Elder, Fenlon, Foley, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Toowoomba. We ought to look at Alpha Hayward, Hollis, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, differently from the way that we look at Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Power, Rockhampton. And we have suggested that Purcell, Pyke, Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, they do just that. We have tried to address all of Spence, Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, these problems, each and every one of Vaughan, Warner, Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: them—the question of training, skills, better Livingstone, Pitt wages and better conditions, the rights of LACs to raise money, and funding. Resolved in the negative. The Opposition's own members of the all- ELECTRICITY AMENDMENT party committee said that the ambulance could REGULATION (No. 2) 1994 not continue the way it was being funded. It (SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION would have never lasted. At that time, it was 1994—No. 184) suggesting that 37 ambulance committees out of Disallowance of Statutory Instrument 96 would be in trouble by the end of that year. It said that the $10.7m in reserves would be Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer) (3.45 p.m.): In frittered away in 12 months. A lot of the absence of the honourable member for recommendations were made. They are there for Tablelands, Mr Gilmore, I move— honourable members to read. It honourable "That Electricity Amendment members opposite read them, they will see that Regulation (No. 2) 1994 (Subordinate we have addressed the matters that were Legislation 1994—No. 184) tabled in the unanimously recognised by every member of the Parliament on 7 June 1994 be disallowed." Legislative Assembly 8857 4 August 1994

The Opposition has moved this are opposed to the increases in fees proposed disallowance motion because it presents us with under the new regulation. an opportunity to highlight to the people of I seek some advice from the Minister. I have Queensland the increase in charges that this not been provided with any regulations released Government has been imposing on them. Those between the Electricity Regulations of 1989 and increases represent taxation by regulation if ever Electricity Amendment Regulation (No. 2) of I have seen it. 1994. I am not sure whether any regulations I draw the attention of the House to some of have been published between those two sets of the increases in charges that this regulation regulations, but there must have been. I would contains. The regulation shows that there have be pleased if the Minister could advise me on been some savage increases in the prescribed that matter. Page 8 of the new regulation electrical articles section contained in the contains the heading— schedule. For instance, the old regulations "Replacement of s 126A (Public state— holidays occurring during long service "The following shall be the fees leave)" payable to the Queensland Electricity The 1989 regulations that I have do not contain a Commission in respect of— section 126A. Therefore, it is obvious that I do Part 1—Prescribed Electrical Articles." not have all the necessary documentation to The old regulations provided that, for prescribed enable me to speak fully to this matter. The new articles, fee classification I was $150. Under the regulation claims to be amending the Electricity new regulations, that amount is $250. Regulations of 1989. I have studied those Prescribed articles fee classification II was $200. regulations. My copy of that document contains a That has been increased to $350—an increase section 126 and a section 127, but not a section of 75 per cent. Prescribed articles fee 126A. Therefore, I ask the Minister to take advice classification III was $300, and it has been on that matter and provide an explanation to the increased to $500. That is a very substantial House. increase. I turn to the fees payable to the Electrical The Minister will probably say that those Workers and Contractors Board. The new electricity regulations date back to 1989, but I regulation contains a new section numbered 2. It advise the Minister that those were the fees that states— applied before Electricity Amendment "Application for renewal of a certificate Regulation (No. 2) came into force. In one case, of competency, including a restricted charges have increased from $300 to $500. The certificate." charges were not imposed in increments. The Evidently, that is covered by section 334B of the old regulations are dated 1989, and were Act. The fee seems to be $25. I understand that obviously enacted by the previous Government. a certificate of competency is granted for life. It has taken the Labor Government this long to Does this new regulation mean that people have decide to suddenly increase the charges to be tested again? I thought that there were substantially. other methods of taking away somebody's right An application for transfer of registration of a to practice if they were judged to be registered electrical article under section 267 of incompetent. I understood that a contractor's the schedule formerly cost $20. That is to be licence could be revoked. I would be most increased to $35. The next two items listed grateful if the Minister could provide an under that part of the schedule also represent explanation of that section. There may be a increases from $20 to $35. The lodgment of simple explanation for it. I am relying on the notification of modification of a registered goodwill of the Minister to explain to the electrical article under section 67 (1) (a) has gone Opposition why this provision is necessary at this from $50 to $100—a 100 per cent increase. As stage. well, the review of test report of a prescribed I turn to page 8 of the new regulation and in electrical article if testing of a modified article has particular to clause 9. In part, it states that after been carried out under section 67 (1) (b) has section 78 a new clause 78A is to be inserted. increased from $150 to $250. I suggest to the Clause 78A covers the financial and insurance Minister that those are substantial increases. requirements for electrical contractors. I presume They are well and truly in excess of the level of that this is consistent with the requirements for the CPI. If the Government wishes to increase the registration of builders. However, that is a charges in line with the level of the CPI, new new provision. I would be most grateful if the regulations can be put in force every year. The Minister would explain to the House why it is Opposition will not oppose increases in fees that necessary to include that new provision. are in line with the level of the CPI. However, we 4 August 1994 8858 Legislative Assembly

Because of that new provision, fees will have to electricity supply industry has an excess cash be paid and certain obligations will be imposed flow of revenue over expenses or cash operating upon electrical contractors. The Opposition expenses each year of something in the seeks an explanation on that matter. magnitude of $1.3 billion, one has to ask why we The main concern of the Opposition is the have these fee increases in these particular increases in fees that I have highlighted. We areas. Presumably, the electricity supply industry seek an explanation from the Government as to would say that it has something to do with the the reason for those increases. I consider them costs, but where are they? When one looks at to be quite savage. Some of those increases are the financial reports put forward by the industry, 100 per cent; some of them are 75 per cent; one cannot determine what the costs are of some of them are 60 per cent; and some of them operating each of these areas. There is not are 66 per cent. All increases in the existing fees sufficient information given so that we can judge are well above the level of the CPI. The workers whether or not the costs associated with the in the electrical industry require some supply to consumers is reasonable or whether or explanation of those increases. I believe that we not the fee increases associated with providing as an Opposition have a right to demand an the services accurately reflect any change in explanation as to why those fees should be costs and why those changes in costs have increased. We are opposed to any fee increases occurred. that are above the level of the CPI. The Opposition believes—and we believe Dr WATSON (Moggill) (3.50 p.m.): I rise to the people of Queensland, the consumers, speak briefly on this disallowance motion moved would believe—that these increases would be by the member for Lockyer on behalf of the significantly greater than any increase in the CPI shadow Minister and member for Tablelands, Mr over the past few years. We believe that we Gilmore. should be given some information that we can examine so that we can appreciate the exact Mrs Edmond: Are you seconding? necessity for these increases. One can hardly Dr WATSON: Yes. As the member for help but assume that this is simply another niggly Lockyer said—— tax grab, another niggly revenue grab, by this Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): Government. We saw in the Budget that the Order! Is the honourable member seconding the Government was going to give back to business disallowance motion? consumers $100m, but here we see the Government attempting to drag back, in a niggly Dr WATSON: That is what I thought I said. I way, $30m or $40m of that. It is not good second that motion. As the member for Lockyer enough. If these increases that the Government said, our major concern with these new wants to impose are justifiable, if they do reflect regulations is what seems to be a substantial the costs of doing the work—on a user-pays increase in the fees being charged in the basis—then we ought to have the information appliance area, as well as in some other areas. before this Parliament. The information ought to When one looks at the last annual report be available in the annual reports, and it ought to available to this House, which is the 1992-93 be available in time for us to consider it. Failing report, one can see that some $24m was that, not only is it the duty of the Opposition to received in the appliance area and some $27m oppose this regulation on behalf of the was received in what is referred to as the consumers of Queensland; it is also our duty to recoverable works area. Although it is not represent their interests and oppose what I see identified, I presume that some of these as a niggly, penny-pinching exercise to raise the increases relate to each of those areas. fee structure of the electricity industry. Therefore, between them, we are looking at an Mr BENNETT (Gladstone) (3.55 p.m.): It is area from which something like $61m worth of with great pleasure that I join this debate. We revenue is raised—at least it was in hear the same old cry from members of the 1992-93—and that there will be some very Opposition about taxes by stealth, niggly taxes, substantial increases in that area. As the and so on. They have been crowing about this previous speaker has said, those increases for quite some time now. Let us take, for range from somewhere around 30 per cent, instance, the $200 renewal fee for electrical which I think was the smallest increase, to about contractors. The fact is that there has been no 100 per cent, which was the largest increase, increase in that fee for nine years. with most of these fee increases being somewhere in the order of 60 per cent to 75 per Mr FitzGerald: What was it last year? cent. Mr BENNETT: It was $50. Does the honourable member remember that? As a result There has not been any justification for of the Tregillis review and the Special Premiers these increases. When one realises that the Conference, we are moving the electrical Legislative Assembly 8859 4 August 1994 industry in Queensland into line with other there has been significant industry States so that we have a national electrical consultation and support for the new fee program. The Opposition has spoken about structure." electrical contractors' licences for electricians. So that is what the fees are being used for. It is Those licences will now be renewed every five very expensive for the State to train electricians years; that is why there is a $25 fee. That brings to get their contractor's licence. I think that if an us into line with all the other States. electrician is doing a course through a TAFE Mr Barton interjected. college, the Government subsidises the fee by Mr BENNETT: That is right. I believe that nearly $900 per person. That is an expense to Mr Barton has a restricted electrical licence. I the State, and I believe that we should be able to would not regard a restricted electrical recoup that money from the electrical contractor's licence as highly as a full electrician's contractors. They are getting that licence so that licence, but nevertheless the member has a they will be able to operate a business to make restricted electrical contractor's licence. This money. We should not expect the consumers of regulation brings Queensland into line with all Queensland to subsidise them. the other States, taking into account the Tregillis The Opposition is also opposing part of this review and the Special Premiers Conference. regulation that simply brings Queensland into Years ago, if an electrician from Victoria came up line with the award restructuring of the industry here to work at the Gladstone Power Station, for and the new modules for training. The regulation instance—and I am going back to the early states that we are now defining "electrical eighties—that electrician had to do special tests, mechanic" as "engineering tradesperson even if he had done his trade training (electrical)". That simply brings it into line with somewhere else. That was a farce. This national award restructuring codes and lines regulation takes us into the future. It will enable electricians up with other mechanical trades. electrical contractors' licences to be used Australiawide, whereas before electrical Major changes under the regulations contractors had to undergo special tests before include: the requirement to submit a Form 1 to an they could work in other States. electricity authority to notify of the intention to have an electrical contractor carry out additions or By opposing this regulation, the Opposition alterations to a consumer's electrical installation is opposing some silly things, really. The has been removed. There will still be a need to regulation states— discuss supply arrangements with electrical ". . . wiring rules' means the Standards authorities, but no form will be necessary. Association of Australia Wiring Rules AS The principle of an electrical contractor 3000-1991." reporting to a consumer on the electrical To oppose the regulation means that the installation work that has been carried out on a Opposition is opposing that standard. Ever since consumer's premises has been retained, but the I can remember, the Standards Association of requirement to report on a prescribed form, that Australia Wiring Rules was the bible of the is, Form 4, has been deleted. In place of the industry. We are explaining terms in the Form 4, an electrical contractor must give the regulation and the Opposition is opposing that. consumer a certificate to the effect that the work That is the absurdity of bringing this disallowance has been tested as prescribed, complies with the motion into this Parliament. The Opposition is a Electricity Act and is connected to the electricity disgrace. supply. To meet this requirement, a statement A letter in my possession from the Minister such as "I certify that the electrical installation for Minerals and Energy states— work listed has been tested in accordance with the prescribed procedures and that such work ". . . current fees fall far short of the cost of complies with the requirements of the Electricity running the Electrical Workers and Act 1976 and has been connected to supply" Contractors Board which has in the past may be included as a certificate which forms part been subsidised by electricity consumers of the contractor's account or receipt. any excess funds collected will be Alternatively, an electrical contractor may elect to used for the provision of additional training issue a separate certificate. A copy of this resource material account or certificate must be kept by an the fee structure is consistent with electrical contractor for at least three years. licensing fees in other States A new regulation 59B, "Disconnection of the fee structure is consistent with electrical installations" has been included. This licensing fees for other contractors required allows an electrical contractor to remove and under the Building Services Authority replace the primary fuse or operate the circuit breaker installed by an electricity authority in a 4 August 1994 8860 Legislative Assembly service line provided the work is performed in a be understood is that the previous fees that way that conforms with recognised electricity were charged fell short of meeting the costs of supply industry practices. In the past, when a running the Electrical Workers and Contractors contractor was out on the job with electricians Board. That board is responsible for the licensing working for him, if they needed the pole fuse of electrical workers and contractors. In the past, removed, they had to call the electricity authority the board's costs have basically been subsidised to those premises. That meant a lot of delays. It by the Queensland Electricity Commission. was costly. It meant that men were standing Those members who know a little about the around, and there was wasted time and wages. It industry would be aware that the Electrical added to the cost of the jobs. Now, provided that Workers and Contractors Board is based in the the contractor uses the proper practices, he or same building as the QEC in the Mary Street. his staff can remove the pole fuses and continue The most important aspect of all this is the the work. fees. I would be the first to admit that an increase The Electricity Act changed the term of a from $50 to $200 a year is substantial. However, certificate of competency for an electrician to five as I understand it, this was the first increase in years. Any certificate issued after 30 June 1994 nine years. The most important aspect to is renewable in five years from the date of issue, remember is that we did not just go out there and while all existing certificates are renewable on 1 say, "That is what we are going to charge." This July 1999. I know that Mr Vaughan has been was done in consultation with the Electrical interested in this discussion, because he is a Contractors Association. We actually sat down former electrician. He might want to renew his with the ECA and said, "Look, we have to have a licence in 1999. fee for service. You have to learn to pay your own An electrical contractor's licence issued after way. Let's work out a reasonable fee." The 30 June 1994 is for the term of one year rather Electrical Contractors Association has spoken to than the existing four years. There is one its members and has said, "Yes, we are happy to important issue about which many of my go along with that fee of $200." It is not as if this constituents have contacted me. An existing has been done by stealth or in an underhanded four-year electrical contractor's licence expires manner. It has been done in a cooperative and on the date shown on the licence and may be consultative manner. renewed or reinstated for a term of one year Let me turn to what the regulations are all starting on the expiry date. That concerned many about. I know that Opposition members have electrical contractors, some of whom have said that their major concern was the increase in contacted my office. They were worried about fees. It must be realised that they are really when they had to renew their electrical throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They contractor's licence. They have to wait until the are saying that they oppose the entire date of expiry of their present licences and then regulation. renew them. The application fee for a certificate Mr FitzGerald: Have we got the power of of competency or a renewal of a certificate for an amendment, have we? Come on, grow up! ordinary electrician is $25. Mr NUTTALL: If the Opposition is just This regulation is important to the Act. The upset with the fees—— fact that we are in this House discussing the disallowance of this regulation is absurd. It is a Mr FitzGerald: How do we oppose it? waste of the time of the Parliament and the Mr NUTTALL: Last year, there was a industry. I admit that the costs have gone up a debate about the changes to the Act. The few dollars here and there, but that happens in all Opposition did not raise this issue during that industries. The last increase was in 1989. I really debate. cannot understand why we are here. It is a joke. Mr FitzGerald: The regulations are here The Opposition should put a lot more work into now. disallowance motions. Mr NUTTALL: The regulations are here Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (4.04 p.m.): I now. The Opposition is throwing out the baby wish to cover a couple of issues that have not with the bathwater. Let us have a look at what been raised in the debate so far. The some of the regulations are. The regulations talk amendments put forward in relation to the about installation work, the protection of electricity regulations simply support the consumers and the safety factor. This industry, changes that were made last year to the more than any other industry, has a very strong Electricity Act. At that time, members talked track record on safety—for obvious reasons. The about fee for service. The previous speaker regulation states that work must be inspected by mentioned the cost of renewal of the annual proper inspectors before any connections can licence for electrical contractors. What needs to be completed. It talks about how tests should be Legislative Assembly 8861 4 August 1994 done. It also talks about consumers. We all know which is largely salaries, and approximately about electric blankets, jugs and toasters. One $350,000 is spent on education and training. can take those to the local electricity board and That is mostly for the industry itself, although get them tested. If they test okay, one gets them some of that money is spent educating the back. If they are no good, they are tagged, and general public. As I said, that leaves a shortfall of they are not allowed to be used. approximately $550,000 that the consumers of The regulation also talks about electrical this State have to pay. Of course, that comes contractors having to have proper public liability from the sale of electricity. Under the new cover. In the past, that was not the case. Now arrangements that we have now introduced, the they have to have public liability cover to the cost of running this board will be met exclusively extent of about $1m. Also, a person cannot just by the electrical contractors themselves. Today, I go in, pay a fee, get a licence and say, "I am up can give a clear guarantee that all of the money and running." An electrical contractor must have accruing from the increased fees and charges will some tangible assets behind him. I believe that be spent on the administration of that board. these sorts of things are very important for the This action today by the Opposition is quite consumer. If an applicant is not an individual but an illegitimate action. As I said before, and as is a corporation, some realisable assets are also previous speakers have mentioned, I think it is a needed. waste of the time of this Parliament. It is typical of As to the schedule of fees—they are not what is happening with the electricity industry as exorbitant. For example, the cost of an some members opposite parade around the application for a certificate of competency is $25. countryside forecasting doom and gloom. The The application for a renewal certificate costs Opposition spokesman, who I regret to say is not $25. The issue of a certificate or permit that has here today—and that is certainly not a been destroyed costs $20. They are not criticism—has been running around the exorbitant fees. They are basic fees that cover countryside forecasting that the State is going to only the cost to produce the certificate. It is not run out of power by next year. about ripping off people. It is not about taking There is an article in today's Gold Coast money by stealth. It is about fee for service. It is Bulletin referring to "a return to the bad old about paying one's own way. It has been done in days". Another newspaper clipping that I have a consultative manner. with me quotes that grand old Tory himself, the Hon. T. McGRADY (Mount Isa— Minister former member for Callide, Lindsay Hartwig, who for Minerals and Energy) (4.10 p.m.), in reply: It is is running around the countryside saying that the very difficult for me to follow the eloquence of my claims of a shortage of power by 1998 are simply two colleagues on this side of the House who propaganda. obviously understand what this is all about. It Mr FITZGERALD: Mr Deputy Speaker, I highlights to me and to other members of the draw your attention to the ruling earlier by the Parliament the ignorance of some of the Chair with regard to relevance. I draw your members on the other side. Quite clearly this attention to the speech made by the member for matter was discussed in detail towards the end of Clayfield. Eventually, his contribution was last year. I find it rather strange, to say the least, deemed to be irrelevant to the actual matter that the time of the Parliament should be taken before the House. up with motions such as this one. Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): As I suspected, the reason that this motion Order! I accept what the honourable member for for disallowance was moved in this Parliament Lockyer is suggesting. However, during the was so that members of the Opposition could afternoon I have been extremely tolerant with parade around the countryside saying that they other speakers and I intend to continue in that were opposed to the increased charges. I think vein. that it has to be made perfectly clear that the cost Mrs McCauley: What would silly old of running the Electrical Workers and Contractors Lindsay Hartwig know? He didn't know anything Board has been highlighted and detailed by the when he was in here. What would he know now? two previous speakers from this side of the House. The QEC receives approximately a Mr McGRADY: Good heavens! Am I quarter of a million dollars a year from the hearing correctly? A prominent frontbencher of electrical contractors of this State; yet the cost of the National Party is referring to a former running this board amounts to $800,000, which colleague as a silly old what? means that the shortfall is being paid for by Mrs McCauley: He was never a colleague consumers, not the contractors themselves. of mine. That $800,000 a year is made up of Mr McGRADY: Anybody would suspect approximately $450,000 for administration, that there has been some competition between 4 August 1994 8862 Legislative Assembly the present frontbencher and the former Mr FitzGerald: The question was: it frontbencher. As I said before, I consider that replaced 126A, and I can't find 126A in the 1989 gentleman to be a gentleman and to be a good regulations. old Tory. However, I am sure that the local Mr McGRADY: It is under section 10, but I National Party will take care of this friction in the will get further clarification. As we said, this is the party today. first increase in fees for nine years. Although I Some of the members referred to the new accept the fact that they are fairly substantial, it is part of the Act that refers to the contractors the first increase for nine years and it did have having to take out public liability insurance of the total support of the electrical contractors, the $1m. As they come to renew their licences, they trade union and indeed the QEC itself. As is have to show some proof that they have that consistent with our policy, there was full public liability policy. What used to happen was consultation with all sides of the industry. I that little contractors could perform some work personally have had one expression of concern and, if there was a problem with the work, or if from an electrical contractor, so I believe that there was a personal injury and the people these amendments, and even the fees, have involved made a claim through the courts, there generally been accepted within the industry. were no funds available to meet the costs. Under I would like to thank those people who have the amendments that we introduced late last made a contribution to this discussion and this year, the electrical contractors have to prove that debate today. I urge members to reject this they have that public liability policy. motion. I will refer to some of the questions that were Question—That the motion be agreed raised by the Opposition spokesman on this to—put; and the House divided— matter. The first one is that he insinuated that these increases were simply a means of raising AYES, 31—Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, Cooper, additional revenue. Of course, I have to say that Davidson, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Goss J. N., that is totally and utterly untrue. This change was Healy, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, motivated by this Government's commitment, as McCauley, Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, was mentioned by my colleagues before, to the Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, national scheme for mutual recognition. At Turner, Veivers, Watson Tellers: Springborg, Laming present, the duration of occupational electrical NOES, 50—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, licences varies right across the Commonwealth, Braddy, Briskey, Budd, Burns, Campbell, Clark, from one year to life. That is one of the reasons Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, De Lacy, Dollin, Edmond, why we brought in this legislation. Elder, Fenlon, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, As the member for Sandgate quite correctly Hollis, Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, Milliner, pointed out, we did not just sit down one day and Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Power, Purcell, simply introduce these regulations and Pyke, Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, Spence, amendments; it was the result of a lot of hard Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, Vaughan, work carried out by all sections of the industry. If Warner, Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: Pitt, my memory serves me correctly, the member for Livingstone. Nudgee, the Honourable Ken Vaughan, played Resolved in the negative. a very active and prominent part in the developments that we now see. That grand young man of the Goss Government in his years LOCAL GOVERNMENT (ALLORA, as Minister played a very important and GLENGALLAN, ROSENTHAL AND constructive role in some of the changes that this WARWICK) REGULATION 1994 State is now enjoying. (SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION 1994—No. 163) The other question that the spokesman raised related to his concern about section Disallowance of Statutory Instrument 126A. Section 10 replaces section 126A, which, Mrs McCAULEY (Callide) (4.26 p.m.): I as the honourable member said, relates to public move— holidays occurring during long service leave. To "That Local Government (Allora, clarify the intent of that section—it will ensure Glengallan, Rosenthal and Warwick) that the entitlement to a public holiday that Regulation 1994 (Subordinate Legislation occurs when an employee is on long service 1994—No. 163) tabled in the Parliament on leave is consistent with the employee's terms of 31 May 1994 be disallowed." employment, for example, whether that person is a part-time employee or a continuous shift The Minister can thank the Opposition for worker. giving him some business to discuss this week. In moving this disallowance motion, the Opposition is merely being consistent in its Legislative Assembly 8863 4 August 1994 opposition to the forced amalgamations which Department and others whose contribution this Labor Government has been foisting on us means that instead of recommendations being for some time. Let me be very clear: we are not only one person's vision and view of the saying that the new Shire of Warwick will not future—as with Mr Hoffman—it is a vision that has work. Indeed, I wish the new council under Mayor received input from a wide range of people and Bruce Green all the very best as it works its way areas. This is working well and the Victorian through the challenges which will no doubt arise Government is tackling the task of reducing its from the amalgamation of those four councils. local government areas by a substantial number. It is interesting to note that the composition The other way in which this is a superior process of the new council consists of two councillors is that it moves quickly. Decisions can be arrived from Allora, three from Glengallan, three from at faster because it is not just one person trying Rosenthal and five from Warwick, which is quite a to do the work on his or her own and be satisfying division of representation and one that everywhere in the State at the same time, which could not have been more evenly dispersed if it is what is happening in Queensland. had been legislated for. Most people involved with the amalgamation I would like to take this opportunity to process in this State will agree that the worst mention the sterling men and women who thing about the whole system is the uncertainty, served on those councils which are in longer in the not knowing if their council is to disappear or existence, in particular the chairmen of those to survive and the length of time it takes for the councils such as Warwick's Stan Walsh, process to be gone through. I am firmly of the Rosenthal's Jim Mitchell, Allora's Jim Deacon and belief that by the time Greg Hoffman has gone Glengallan's Cec Jamieson. I would also like to through the whole of the local government mention the tenacious work of Councillor Charlie boundaries in this State, which he plans to look Evans, whose work led to the court decision on at, the general populace will be ready to lynch 21 January which quashed a recommendation to him. It is a bit like being on the rack—slow amalgamate the four local government areas. torture—and, of course, people will scream and That decision was made on a technicality and the they will scream blue murder. end result was the same, but it exposed flaws in The Local Government Commissioner's the process in that the recommendation finally office in this State employs some nine brought down was substantially different from permanent staff, five temporary and one casual the preliminary report and was not advertised for with a salary bill of nearly $500,000 a year. The public comment. I ask the Minister: will he move community surveys which were conducted in the to change the process so that such a fiasco will areas recommended for amalgamation as at the not occur again? He might care to answer my end of August last year cost approximately question in his reply. $89,000. So for the amount of money that is I would also like to pay tribute to those being spent, the councils under scrutiny face councillors who have run the Rosenthal Shire months of indecision and uncertainty because at since the 1930s when it was first mooted for the end of the day it all has to be sieved through amalgamation. To have fought to keep a Mr Hoffman. separate identity for more than 50 years after the initial suggestion is no mean feat. When I visited Another area where the amalgamation the Rosenthal Shire Council last year, they gave process falls down badly in this State is in the me a book of the history of the shire, which I prize area of cost/benefit analyses, which in Victoria highly. Of course, it has doubled in value since are an integral part of the amalgamation process. the subject of it no longer exists. If the financial benefits are not patently obvious, why make the changes? The process in This amalgamation was one which showed Queensland is full of "we thinks", "probablys", clearly how this process in Queensland, and "it is envisaged", but there are no concrete overseen by a single Local Government facts about finances. I have a theory that many Commissioner with the responsibility to examine people in the community do not really have a the whole of this enormous State, is not working keen interest in local government until it affects satisfactorily. The job is too big for one person their hip pocket—then suddenly they are very and the process takes too long because of it. In interested. Victoria, when the Kennett Government came to power, it dismissed the Local Government It is of paramount importance that Commissioner and replaced him or her with a communities that are being forced into an board of seven. That board consists of amalgamation that they do not want, and which representatives from urban as well as rural areas, they have soundly rejected via referendum, do someone with town planning expertise, the not find themselves having insult added to injury Director-General of the Local Government by seeing their local government rates double 4 August 1994 8864 Legislative Assembly overnight because they are being forced to take policies have created the situation, yet he sits on the debt structure of a nearby big spending apart and says, "My hands are clean." and big borrowing council with which they have I reckon the Government can fool some of been forced into a shotgun marriage. the people some of the time, it can fool some of I understood that the recommendations of the people all of the time, but it cannot fool all of EARC included a provision for a rate freeze for the people all of the time. For my part, I will know two years after any amalgamation in this State. I that the amalgamation process has worked and is challenge the Minister to see that such a of benefit when Allora becomes sewered. Until safeguard is abided by. He can act in the then, I rest my case. interests of fairness to all and ensure that a rate Mr SPRINGBORG (Warwick) (4.35 p.m.): I freeze is enforced for a period, which means that rise to second the disallowance motion moved the local residents would be under no immediate by the Opposition spokesman for Local threat. This process will, in fact, give everyone Government. In doing so, I cannot help noting in time to catch their breath. In Victoria, there is a the Parliament that there is a certain sense of rate freeze imposed for 12 months after any deja vu about rising to participate in this debate. I amalgamation. think it was totally fitting and proper that the One of the major concerns expressed by coalition moved the disallowance motion to this the Glengallan Shire Council was "the adverse regulation on 8 June. It is just a bit unfortunate rating impact on the shire's rural ratepayers—a that the Leader of the House chose not to possible increases of approximately 20 per debate it until today. However, the reasons that cent—at a time when the rural community can we put forward in our original opposition to the least afford rate increases of this magnitude, amalgamation of the Shires of Warwick, Allora, particularly when there are no benefits to accrue Glengallan and Rosenthal still stand. from such an increase". They went on to point At the outset, I would like to say that, in out that the shire is not financially stressed and participating in this debate tonight, I am not that never at any time has it been accused of advocating de-amalgamation. I will come to that a non-cooperation with neighbouring local little later on. Firstly, I would like to congratulate all authorities. of the previous councillors, mayors and shire If the economy of scale argument, which is chairmen for their contributions to their used by those in favour of amalgamation, is also respective communities over many years. I would valid, Brisbane should have the cheapest rates in also like to congratulate the new Warwick Shire Australia. Of course, it certainly does not. What Council Mayor, Bruce Green, and his 12 we have seen very clearly since the last local councillors on their election. I hope that they find government elections in March this year is a operating the new Warwick Shire fulfilling and of reaction by the community to the laws for great benefit to them. councils which the State Government has put in However, I would like to take this Parliament place. By law, as soon as possible after the back some considerable time to the start of this election, councils must set their pay rates for the process. In 1990, the Deputy Premier and coming period. Many councils have increased Minister for Local Government moved a motion in their salaries for councillors and mayors relation to local government boundary changes, substantially, and ratepayers are taking a dim which was subsequently carried. That resolution view of this. referred the issue of local government boundary Mr Mackenroth: They don't have to. changes to the Parliamentary EARC Committee. Mrs McCAULEY: No, but they have to Then we saw a four-year saga, which created look at them. The general populace is unaware nothing other than bitterness and division in four that the Minister's new Local Government Act of the six local authorities in my part of the world. means a larger workload for councillors than ever This has created a great deal of scepticism in my before. They have more accountability, more community towards any of these very shallow responsibility and numerous reports, and very superficial so-called consultation submissions, green papers and so on to read, programs. I will give honourable members one digest and understand in order to try to work out example. the ramifications for the area that they represent. Mr Beattie: I want two. It is not my job to defend the councillors who Mr SPRINGBORG: For the benefit of the voted themselves the big pay rises, but I cannot honourable member for Brisbane Central, I point help seeing the irony in a situation that has been out that this is a most notable example. I refer to created by this Government. The Minister said the east link program that this Government is that he would not interfere in Hervey Bay. I embarking upon. It is part of the national believe that it is a parallel to the amalgamation electricity grid. I went to a number of meetings in issue. The Minister knows that his Government's the past couple of weeks, at which I have sat up Legislative Assembly 8865 4 August 1994 the back and listened to the people who have council will be able to pull everything together. I participated in the debate. The first thing that certainly hope that that occurs. they have said is, "We have been through this A lack of cooperation has been advanced as charade of consultation. You really don't take any one of the reasons why amalgamation was notice. You knew what you were going to do." necessary. It is interesting to note that, over the That is the whole issue. In 1990, the past couple of years, the councils have worked Government knew that it was going to together on a major project, Danpork. That amalgamate those four local authority areas. project came to fruition as a result of Glengallan, There was absolutely no doubt about that. All of Allora, Warwick and Rosenthal Shires working the remonstration—— together. That is an $80m project that has been A Government member interjected. announced for the Warwick Shire. The Warwick Mr SPRINGBORG: I am saying that I think City Council also had been working on another the people who put in submissions to Mr major project that has now come to fruition—the Hoffman, the genuine people who turned out to Woolworths distribution centre. Many of the the public meetings, were not listened to. They suggestions that have been put forward are put forward their point of view, they stuck up for absolute furphies. It is in the hands of the new their local community, and nobody listened to shire council to carry those projects forward. them. No doubt, later on in this Parliament we are It is interesting to note that one of the keen going to hear all sorts of justification in the supporters of anti-amalgamation in Allora, Mrs election results for the amalgamation, because at Debbie Smith—who was a supporter of some time in the past, Bruce Green advocated a Councillor Bruce Green, who is going to be an pro-amalgamation stance. A lot of people have excellent Mayor of the new Warwick Shire—came advocated pro-amalgamation and to me afterwards and said, "Look, when you guys anti-amalgamation stances, and they were not are elected, can we have our shire back?" That reflected in the election result. It was not an issue comment illustrates further that people voted for in the election. I am pleased to say that. the best person; they did not vote in favour of The day before the election, when I gave amalgamation. That attitude still permeates the myself leave from the Parliament to attend the community. final function of the Rosenthal Shire Council, in I want to outline clearly my position on the my speech I said, "Amalgamation has happened. issue of de-amalgamation. I have no trouble It is here. At least for the foreseeable future, and outlining my position to people. I will not be probably longer, you have to make it work." I was advocating de-amalgamation within an area pleased to note that people such as Councillor unless a majority of people in an area come to me Charlie Evans and Councillor Des Cooper from and say that they believe that it is an option; that Rosenthal, who had been taking a very avid they believe that they are worse off and they anti-amalgamation stance for three or four years, would like to see things fixed up. I believe that it adopted exactly the same attitude. At some time is—— in the past, Mr Green had said that he was in Mr Mackenroth: You're going against favour of amalgamation, but that was not party policy there. necessarily reflected in his election result. Mr Meiklejohn of the Warwick City Council and the Mr SPRINGBORG: No. Quite clearly, we former Deputy Mayor, Doug Cutmore, were also have retained the option of de-amalgamation. pro-amalgamationists, and they were far more The only issue we are debating here is the reality vocal about it than was Mr Green. At the end of of whether it would be needed in this particular the day, they finished fifth and fourth circumstance. I have said to people that the issue respectively in the poll. of de-amalgamation is one that we will be keeping in mind. If a majority of residents in any I turn to the results for Division 1. Councillor of those areas are worse off as a result of the Cowley was anti-amalgamation, and she finished amalgamation, then that option will be quite well. She topped the poll quite considered during the time of a future convincingly. Of course, Mayor Bruce Green, as conservative Government. However, it will not be he is now, topped the poll for the mayoral inevitable. At the end of the day, the people may election. There is absolutely no correlation. It is decide that they have been through interesting to note that Keith Kerkin—the only amalgamation and that they do not want to go person in Allora who was prepared to advocate a through the hassle that may be involved in pro-amalgamation stance—received 25 votes reversing it. out of 370, so there is absolutely no correlation there. It was more that people voted for who they Mr McElligott: Even you won't be around felt would be the best person for the job, and for the next coalition Government. they are hoping that that person and the new 4 August 1994 8866 Legislative Assembly

Mr SPRINGBORG: That might not be all give people a real say, when we give them a real that far away—one year or four years. In his own vote, that is not democracy, because we end up electorate, the honourable member for with a result that he does not want! Thuringowa advocated amalgamation, but This disallowance motion is another cheap unfortunately did not achieve his aim in that part political stunt by the Opposition. It has no of the world. interest in the welfare of local government. It is My comments during this contribution are not interested in good government. I believe the consistent with my position all the way through. I fact that one Opposition member did not even have not supported the forced amalgamation of take the opportunity to congratulate the newly Rosenthal, Warwick, Allora and Glengallan. I will elected mayor says it all. If I were the Mayor of not support that position, and I have told the Warwick, I would be insulted, offended and council as such. Today, I am voting against the deeply disappointed with the local member. That actions of this Government. It has trodden on mayor has taken a very constructive, positive democracy in that area. It has trodden on all of approach. I want to refer to an article that those people. It has ignored the polls taken in appeared in the Daily News in Warwick. I think we Allora. It has ignored the polls taken in Glengallan could all take a lesson from the book of the newly and Rosenthal that concluded that the people elected mayor. That article stated— were not in favour of amalgamation. "Newly sworn-in Warwick Shire mayor Unfortunately, there is a certain sense of deja vu Bruce Green yesterday challenged here. This disallowance motion is totally councillors to make amalgamation work." consistent with the position that we have advocated all the way through. It is a sad That is what he said—"Let's make it work." The indictment on this Government. article continued— Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central) "Addressing the historic first meeting (4.45 p.m.): What a courageous man! The of the Warwick Shire Council, Cr Green said honourable member for Warwick just attacked the Council had been elected with a voter the newly elected Warwick Shire Council. As expectation of good Local Government." well, he wanted to keep open the option of de- Of course, Mr Green is right. The article amalgamation. He is saying that those people in continued— the Warwick region who want to maintain the Warwick Shire Council have to oppose him at the " 'The challenge is for us to recognise next State election. What a courageous man to the benefits that can flow from pooling of get up here and not only attack the newly resources now the councils are elected Warwick Shire Council but also attack the amalgamated." newly elected Mayor of the Warwick Shire Mr Nunn: That's why he won. Council. All I can say is: what a very courageous man! The member is off side with his local Mr BEATTIE: I take that interjection. The council. He suggests that it may be de- article continued— amalgamated at an appropriate time, and the only " 'Our duty to the people is to oversee way the council has a guarantee of survival is for and administer Local Government that is people to vote against their local member. That is effective, efficient and responsive to courageous in the extreme! community needs . . . I was interested to hear the comments that Cr Green said the future prosperity and the honourable member for Warwick made about well-being of the new Shire could be the so-called attack on democracy. It reminded influenced by sound government from the me of the comment that the former mayor, Mr Council. Mitchell, made when he attended the Local Government Association regional meeting in 'I take the responsibility seriously and Toowoomba. I have referred to this on another urge all councillors to do their very best to occasion. He was also worried about trampling justify people's faith. over democracy! He stated— 'If we work co-operatively and "Since the Socialists came to power constructively we can create an even finer and introduced one vote, one value, shire,' he said." democracy has gone out the window." Mr Nunn: No wonder he won the vote. An honourable member: He did, too. Mr BEATTIE: No wonder he won the vote! Indeed, he should have gone on and said, Mr BEATTIE: I take that interjection. Mr "I urge the member for Warwick to support me in Mitchell indeed said, "Democracy has gone out these matters." Mr Green supported the window." What he means is that, when we Legislative Assembly 8867 4 August 1994 amalgamation. Not only does he have sound Mr BEATTIE: Members opposite do not policies—as one can see from what he said in like it. Look at them squirm and carry on! They do that article—but he also had good judgment in not like it when their political stunts backfire. That supporting the amalgamation. He is positive, and is when all the Mr and Mrs Whippys on the other he is getting on with the job—not looking back. side get excited. They do not like it. A lot has been made in this debate and on a I will tell the House the number of councillors previous occasion about the so-called huge on the previous council. There were 10 from opposition to the amalgamation. For the benefit Allora, 11 from Glengallan, nine from Rosenthal of the House, I table that Daily News report of 8 and nine from Warwick, which is a total of 39. That July, because it contains a very interesting story was the previous number. The numbers seeking on the council's first meeting. The honourable re-election as councillors were: five from Allora, member for Warwick might like to listen to this. seven from Glengallan, three from Rosenthal and Honourable members should remember that the five from Warwick, which is a total of 20. So honourable member for Warwick and others have previously there were 39, and only 20 sought re- said that there is an enormous amount of public election. The number of councillors re-elected opposition to this new shire. So, what do we were: two from the Allora area, two from have? How did the local paper—the member for Glengallan, three from Rosenthal and two from Warwick's local paper—report that meeting? The Warwick, which is a total of nine. article carries the title "Meeting draws little The new council is made up of 12 interest". It states— councillors plus the mayor. Of those elected, "Only five Warwick Shire people, three nine of the councillors were previously members of them former Warwick City councillors, and of one of the amalgamated councils; in other one of the spouses of a new councillor, words, they were prepared to support the were in the public gallery." concept of an amalgamated council by standing Mr Mackenroth: One member of the for election, and they were elected. general public. Mr Springborg: That's what I said. Mr BEATTIE: That is right; one member of Mr BEATTIE: Yes, but the member tried the general public. That is the level of to give the impression that they were opposed to outrage—one member of the general public. So it. The mayor, Bruce Green, was not previously a the honourable member for Warwick has come mayor or councillor, but he had the courage to be into the House today and very actively opposed to the sort of strategies that the represented that one member of the public. That Opposition was on about. The mayor was is what he has done, and he has done it very supportive of amalgamation. He was not in an well. I have no doubt that at the next election that entrenched position; his courage produced a person will vote for him. good election result. The honourable member Mr Mackenroth: He was going to pay his for Warwick should send him a letter of rates; he walked through the wrong door. congratulations, and he should have congratulated him in his speech today. The Mr BEATTIE: I take that interjection. The member is usually a very decent and honourable person was obviously lost. However, we must member of this House. I am disappointed that he congratulate the member for Warwick. He did not do that. represented that person well. He ignored the wish of the majority and he supported that one Mr SPRINGBORG: I rise to a point of person who was in the public gallery. That takes order. I find the honourable member's remarks courage and commitment. I table that article for offensive and untruthful and I ask him to the information of the House. Before I move on, I withdraw. might just say that that person in the public Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): gallery came to the meeting notwithstanding the Order! In deference to the member for Warwick, I fact that a campaign costing over $250,000 was ask the member for Brisbane Central to withdraw waged against this Government because of the the remark. amalgamation plans. That is the result of it Mr BEATTIE: With deference to you, Mr all—the spending of $250,000. Let us turn to Deputy Speaker, I withdraw, and I again confirm the results—— my congratulations to Mr Green on being elected Opposition members interjected. as the Mayor of Warwick. On behalf of all Mr BEATTIE: The Opposition has given members of the Labor Party, I want him to some figures in relation to the results. Let me understand clearly that we congratulate him, that give them the real figures. It is important that it is we admire his courage and that we are right on the record. behind him in what he will do in the Warwick Shire. Opposition members interjected. 4 August 1994 8868 Legislative Assembly

Let me continue to discuss the result. Bruce This motion seeks the disallowance of Green was elected mayor; he received 5 087 regulations that were tabled around 31 May. I votes out of a total of 11 665. The remaining cannot help noticing that we are having this 6 578 votes were distributed amongst the debate in August, after the change-over date remaining nine candidates. The mayor received and after all the events have happened, even 5 087 votes. The honourable member for though there have been previous occasions on Warwick ignored the number of votes received which we could have debated the disallowance by those who came in second and third in this of this regulation before the amalgamation of exercise; he tried to play down that victory. That shires took place and before the elections. Of victory is an overwhelming one, of which I believe course, the Minister did not have the courage to Mr Green should be proud, and shows the good bring on this debate; he was too busy setting up judgment of the people in that area. I might also more committees. The Minister loves say that the honourable member for Warwick did committees, but they will not save his hide. Sure, not say anything about Lindsay Hartwig. What he might have had a win on this occasion, but it is about poor old Lindsay? a shallow win. This time the Minister has Mrs McCauley: Tell us about Lindsay. managed to get his way. The arm of Government, the sovereignty of the State, has won yet again Mr BEATTIE: I will tell the honourable through the power of numbers. member about Lindsay. He is still running. We are not quite sure whether he will get there, but The Government has the majority; there is he is still running. I would not get too excited no denying that point. It is also obvious that local about it. government is an instrument of the State created by this Parliament, so the Government is able to Mr Mackenroth: I was in the Chamber do that. However, it must not be very satisfying, during the Iwasaki debate and at four in the even for a well-known number-cruncher such as morning Mr Hartwig ran from that side of the the Minister, to have to resort to acts such as Chamber to the other. But he had been asleep these to achieve this end. If the argument had and he had undone his belt. When he ran, his been strong and true, the Minister would have trousers fell down. That's an example of how he been able to win it on its merits. In fact, the runs. argument was not won on its merits at all. I will not Mr BEATTIE: I hope that he "belted" go through the details of who took what position himself up in the Warwick elections. Obviously, during the election campaign, because the he did not win, but I hope that he at least "belted" shadow Minister, the member for Callide, himself up. followed by the honourable member for Warwick, In conclusion, I must say that I think the went through that at some length. The member attacks that have been made on the for Brisbane Central then decided to pinch parts independent Commissioner, Greg Hoffman, are of their speeches and basically repeat the same shameful. He has performed a very difficult task thing again. So I will not go through that again. well and he deserves the support of members of Let us look at a few of the facts in relation to this this House. matter. Time expired. As with other important local government boundary changes that have occurred in this Mr BEANLAND (Indooroopilly) State, the people did not have the opportunity to (4.55 p.m.): I rise firstly to congratulate those who vote in a referendum. The people of these shires were successful in the recent council elections. I have not had a say in what is to take place within particularly want to thank those people for their old shires. The Government did not want to putting forward their names as candidates. I do give them that say. The true demonstration of so because the people of Warwick and those democracy—the Minister is always talking about other shires that existed prior to this these processes and we have heard a bit about it amalgamation received an enormous amount of today in a number of other debates—is to allow abuse from this Labor Government, and the people to have their say. The people in particularly from this Minister, over a long period these small shires were not given a say. Sure, as they battled to keep their shires intact. It hundreds of thousands of people might not should not be forgotten that the people were not have been involved, as would have been the given a say in this matter. I have just listened to case in the near Brisbane shires. Nevertheless, the greatest piece of non-logic and codswallop some thousands of people live in these shires, that I have ever heard from the member for and they had a right to have their say because, Brisbane Central. It is easy to understand why he when all is said and done, they could have taken is not in the Cabinet, because all he talked about action previously to have those shires merged were matters that occurred after the event. with the City of Warwick to create a larger council. At that time, for their own good reasons and Legislative Assembly 8869 4 August 1994 purposes, they decided not to do that. I believe mean less funds in those towns and a reduction that they had very good reasons for not doing in their populations and services. That is what is that, and I will deal with a couple of those reasons going to happen. As I said, it will not happen in a moment. overnight; it will be a slow strangulation process. This is just another case of Big Brother This Government has cut back services in a knows best. We hear a great deal about how this number of other sectors. It has removed Government is not against the reduction of decentralisation and relocated services to major services, yet time and again we see that that is centres. However, the smaller towns and exactly what is happening. We see Minister villages—and in some cases they are merely "Windbag" in action again this week. Every time I villages—have suffered, because they have lost visit country areas, the people ask me, "When their works depots and parks depots. People in are we going to get rid of the member for Lytton, those towns no longer have the ability to contact the Deputy Premier? He is out there again, their local councillors, as they did previously. bashing us and abusing us." This week, the Many of those councillors resided in those Deputy Premier made a lot of pronouncements towns. They would go down to the shop in the about banks in country areas closing services. morning, or go out onto their farms. As they were He said that it was disgraceful. Most of his travelling around they would see the problems comments were inaccurate—but that is a mere and concerns in the area. Now, those councillors detail when it comes to Mr Burns. have a much larger area to represent. Mr Stoneman: He was trying to hide his Local government is very close knit. People own failings. become close knit in their communities, and they Mr BEANLAND: The member for can relate very closely to one another—unlike Burdekin is right. He was trying to hide his own those in the State or Federal arena. Let us face it: failures by doing a bit of bank bashing, because it those communities do not really care too much is cheap and easy to get away with that. There about State and Federal boundaries; but local was a reduction of services, and there is no government is a different matter. The Minister greater reduction of services than when one can keep amalgamating and abusing shires. But takes away a local government. That is exactly as he shall see; as he sows, so shall he reap. It what was done in this case. This Government has will not be long before he will be reaping from been party to the greatest reduction of services some of these activities. possible. I have very much pleasure in supporting this It will not come as news to me if there is a disallowance motion. Whilst the election might closure of the bank in Allora, brought about by be over, the principle is still the same. I cannot the removal of the local government. help noting that, even though there were ample opportunities, the Government did not have the Mr Springborg: The shire used that bank. courage to bring on this debate until well after Mr BEANLAND: I understand that the the event. On a number of occasions the local government did its banking with that bank, Parliament has adjourned before 6 p.m. and has which was one of the major features of the not sat through until midnight, as it often does. town—not to mention the services and the work The Parliament has adjourned early, when these it provided. matters could have been debated. Mr Stoneman: He is showing his I expected that the Deputy Premier would ignorance. have been participating in this debate. He Mr BEANLAND: He is showing his believes that big is beautiful, otherwise he would ignorance all right. Let us have a look at the not be supporting this process. I appeal to the reduction in services. It is a slow strangulation Minister—even though it is falling on deaf process. It does not happen overnight. The local ears—that, in the future, the Government give government has been removed. Sure, some of consideration to holding a referendum to give the local governments had their offices on the the people the say which they so richly deserve. fringe of Warwick City. Nevertheless, they I was very disappointed by the contribution maintained depots and offices within those of the member for Brisbane Central, who has led areas, and they provided services. They focused us to believe that he has an affinity with local on the small towns such as Dalveen, Killarney government. Many members on this side of the and Yangan, all of which were proud of their House, including the shadow Minister and I, have positions and their status. Now they will suffer served in local government. That is not the case further, because they would have had depots for most Government members, particularly the and offices there. Services will now be provided member for Brisbane Central, who lacks that from Warwick on a day-by-day basis. There will be affinity with local government, as he has shown fewer employment opportunities, which will here today by his ignorance. 4 August 1994 8870 Legislative Assembly

Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) (5.05 p.m.): knew the outcome before we started the It has been interesting to listen to the process, it would not have been changed. contributions from Opposition members. First of Some people say that we should be doing a all, the member for Callide looked into the dim cost-benefit analysis. We could do that analysis; past, which did not provide growth. The member but let us have a look at what was contained in for Warwick then became the instant election that report. It stated that overall financial savings analyst, who could give his interpretation of what of $200,000 per year were achievable at the happened at the last election. They were found current service levels, taking into account likely wanting by the member for Toowoomba. The grant reductions. In other words, exactly the most hypocritical of them all was the member for same services could be provided to the Indooroopilly, who said, "We want a ratepayers of the whole area at a saving of referendum." But what did his colleagues in $200,000 to the ratepayers and a saving to the Victoria do? They have undertaken rest of Queensland through grant reductions. amalgamations and changes. Was there any Yet Opposition members say that they want to go referendum down there? No—because, at the back to the bad old days. That is amazing. end of the day, someone has to make a decision. I must say that I have not agreed with this Let us have a look at what they want to go process. It has taken too long. It should have back to. They are saying that the present been done a lot quicker. The process was not as Government is taking away services and not good as it should have been. allowing growth. The report states— The member for Indooroopilly is saying, "Each of the three (3) shires currently "Small is beautiful. We do not want anything big. have a smaller population than they had in We do not want any savings. We want to keep it 1921, despite the Toowoomba, Dalby and as it has been." He wants it small, as long as Queensland population's growing threefold somebody else pays for it. The National Party has in that time. always said, "As long as somebody else pays for . . . it, we want it to stay the same." It is all right to be Clearly the local government small, as long as the money is coming from boundaries have not assisted development somewhere else. of the district." In 1992-93, the following proportions of It was in 1917 that Toowoomba's population—— total revenue came from Commonwealth and State grants and subsidies: in Allora, 42 per cent Mr Beanland: Haven't you read the Act? came from income that was not raised from the They had the ability to get the amalgamation shire's own ratepayers; in Glengallan, the figure before you forced it. was 30 per cent; in Rosenthal, 35 per cent; and Mr CAMPBELL: They would not do it in Warwick, 19 per cent, making an average of 27 because they like to be big frogs in small per cent. The income for the other local puddles. Basically, that is what has happened. authorities from Commonwealth and State grants The small councils were kept and there was no and subsidies was only 14 per cent. In other development and no population growth. In 1917 words, those authorities expect to be able to stay Toowoomba expanded and it is now four times small, and they expect somebody else to pay for bigger. That is where the growth occurred. The it. I really do not mind if they stay small, as long as shires say that they should be able to have joint they do not make somebody else pay for it. arrangements. Let us consider what has The total income in rates from Allora was 41 happened, as detailed in the report— per cent of total expenditure; in Glengallan, it was "To date there has been a general only 36 per cent; in Rosenthal, 45 per cent; and reluctance to deal with issues which affect in Warwick, 76 per cent. In comparison, the rest neighbouring councils. During the period of the local authorities raised 70 per cent of their the shires were pressing for joint funds from their own ratepayers. I do not mind arrangements for regional planning, saying that small can be beautiful, but they Rosenthal Shire approved a small lot rural should not expect the ratepayers from every residential development of 20 lots with a other area to pay for them. maximum of 36 lots which potentially The member for Warwick claimed that, conflicts with an adjoining land use (effluent before we went through this process, we knew disposal ponds) associated with the City's the outcome. When the report on local major export industry—the bacon factory. authorities was released in 1992, it was Warwick City has claimed that neither it nor questioned, and the matter was taken to the the bacon factory was consulted . . . " courts. Subsequently, it was changed. If we That is what happens when shires are fragmented. The report continues— Legislative Assembly 8871 4 August 1994

"Warwick's economic development has with the commissioner, through an Act of been hindered because of a lack of Parliament, can force an amalgamation on coordination, promotion and development communities and not insist that there be a cost- of the area. In contrast, Toowoomba and benefit analysis to consider the real impact on Dalby have grown substantially. At the turn the towns, ratepayers and the broader of the century the population of the four (4) community. councils in the Warwick area was greater I am not referring to the little, Mickey Mouse than Toowoomba's, but is now less than a middle that the member for Bundaberg, who is quarter of Toowoomba's population. The scurrying from the Chamber, is interested in. He boundary of Toowoomba was expanded in is a socialist in the extreme. I am referring to the 1917 and since that time Toowoomba's real people in this State: the people who provide population had trebled whilst the Warwick the wealth; the people who provide the area's population has been static." wherewithal so that the services that are Small has not been good for that area. subsidised at every level in the city are able to Coordinated development and planning can continue. I am referring to the grain growers, the help. It is no good going backwards. It is no good canegrowers, and the wool, wheat and beef expecting other people to pick up the tab farmers. I am referring to the miners. Those because something is small and nice. Everyone products come from areas where sparse would like to have small—and in many cases fairly populations provide an enormous amount of the ineffective—administrations because it is a nice economic development of this State. Yet the way to go. The implications are that this member for Bundaberg has the hide to say that, amalgamation will provide a strong regional now that there is a centralised structure at centre for the development of that area. I believe Warwick, Rosenthal, Glengallan and Allora, that the new councillors and mayor can work suddenly there will be boom times ahead. What a together to take Warwick and that whole region lot of rot! ahead to become a strong, dynamic and growing Perhaps under his terms we should merge region of Queensland. the Longreach shire with Aramac and Muttaburra. Mr STONEMAN (Burdekin) (5.13 p.m.): I Muttaburra exists as a service town for the rise in this debate somewhat reluctantly, shearers involved in the local wool industry. It is because I had not planned to speak. I had founded in the day-to-day service that it provides thought that there would be some logic in the through the Main Roads depot. The member for arguments of Government members. I will work Brisbane Central has scurried out of the from the back to the front, and I make the Chamber with his tail between his legs because comment that it is a very bad back. The previous he knows that he is going to receive a touch-up speaker, the member for Bundaberg, talked in a moment as well. If Muttaburra or Aramac were about what can really be described as his support centralised in Longreach, what would happen? for socialism at its very best. He talked about The livelihoods of the people of Muttaburra wiping out small communities and doing away would die because the town would die. with what he called cross-subsidisation. The Centralism cannot be equated with automatic shires involved could never—in the past or in the improvement to the provision of services and future—ever hope to raise enough rates to look automatic growth; it will automatically make them after their roads and other services. Although by die. some standards those local authorities are not The member for Indooroopilly mentioned big, they are much bigger than the ones that the the banks and the effects once the provisions member for Bundaberg alluded to. are removed from the local authorities to use the The member for Bundaberg is suggesting banks. The local people use the local cafe and that we centralise the services around towns buy their fuel locally. It has a flow-on effect. such as Longreach, Charleville, Warwick and Centralisation takes that away. Certainly, Warwick Roma and that we wipe out all of the other small will grow—but at the expense of the other areas communities by wiping out their local authorities. because the people involved will have to transfer Structure exists in those communities, such as their jobs from the depots and other support the grader drivers—the people who provide services in those towns into the centralised area. services in times of difficulty when the roads are Some people—a grader driver or two—might cut off. Has the commissioner, through the stay. legislation provided by this Government, at any I am not in any way reflecting upon the stage considered a cost-benefit analysis for the people who, at the polls, supported the ratepayers of the communities involved? Clearly, proposal, as the member for Brisbane Central the answer is: no, no, no! Under no was keen to talk about. Those people said, "We circumstances has that ever been a requirement. are stuck with this rotten thing. Let's make it It is ridiculous that the Government, in concert 4 August 1994 8872 Legislative Assembly work." They have no alternative—unless some of that does not give a tinker's cuss about those the members opposite see the wisdom of this small communities and the impact that this debate and come over to this side during the amalgamation may have on them. We are division that will follow and give the people out debating today the principle that those people there a go. have not been given a fair go. The principle that we are objecting to is that As a member of the Parliamentary of forced amalgamation. We are talking about a Committee for Electoral and Administrative process in which big bullies have come along Review, which considered these matters, I was and said, "We have decided that this is good for fortunate to travel to other States of Australia and you." Mr Deputy Speaker, I am sure that you will to New Zealand to talk to people about them. agree with me on this; what this Government is One point that came through clearly was that, really doing is centralising power and to hell with once the decision was made, we needed to have the people upon whom it impacts. It does not at the head of the organisation a person who care about the Muttaburras or the Ilfracombes. could convince the people that they were going Ilfracombe is 15 miles—18 or 20 to be better off. We also needed to have a kilometres—from Longreach. What would person who understood and was a direct happen if the same beady stare is used to knock representative of the structure of local down the people of Ilfracombe in the central west government. Unfortunately, in Queensland, we and amalgamate it with the logical choice of made the mistake that Labor Governments in Longreach? That little village would be killed. The New South Wales and Victoria made. This is not a history would be killed. That would kill an area personal reflection on Mr Hoffman, but he is a that has supplied an enormous amount of wealth bureaucrat and not a representative of local to this State. People such as the member for government. The problem is that the principles Bundaberg have the hide to say that there are of applying this bad legislation can be applied not enough people there to pay rates so it only through the bureaucratic process. In New cannot continue to exist on its own. What a lot of Zealand, Sir Brian Elwood said that the very thing poppycock! that will not work is to impose decisions upon I cannot imagine why the Government might local government. That is the sort of thing that not have directed the commissioner—in this the members for Brisbane Central and instance and a number of other instances—to Bundaberg referred to, and I am sure that the say, "Look there are some benefits that we think Minister will refer to it in his reply. you can get by increasing the level of The continuing role of local authorities is a cooperation between the local authorities. There direct service to the community, and if those are means by which in the long term you can services are centralised as a matter of adjust the boundaries, or adjust some of the amalgamation, that is not in the best interests of operations." Those processes should have the community. If it is going to be a worthwhile been massaged. amalgamation, the community should be In my own electorate the same sort of force massaged into that process. People should be was used. The Government was going to take up supported in seeing that the change is worth the promises of EARC—such promises as a rates while. They should not have it rammed down freeze. The people were conned. I am happy their throats. They should be part of the that I am part of a shire that came out of an decision-making process without the existing shire and became a new area—the confrontationist structures that we have seen Burdekin. since this Government came to power. I oppose totally the principle of This is a wilful, outrageous and improper amalgamation by force. If the Government cannot decision imposed on those people. The achieve amalgamation through the logical amalgamation of the shires will work because it persuasion of the people and by showing them has to work, but it is wrong, and this House that they are better off by doing it, it means that should recognise it. I look forward to at last the Government cannot show them that they will seeing some common sense from the be better off. It means that the Government has Government side of the House. The Opposition no logic, and that it can do it only by the equation needs only a dozen Government members to of 54 versus 35, which was the equation used to vote with the Opposition and the people of this amalgamate these four local authorities. State, particularly the people of Warwick Glengallan, Rosenthal and Allora, will at long last The amalgamation of those local authorities see some justice. will work; I will not disagree with the Minister about that. They have no choice. Local Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH government in this State works even under the (Chatsworth—Minister for Housing, Local terrible regime that we have currently in this State Government and Planning) (5.23 p.m.), in reply: Legislative Assembly 8873 4 August 1994

The more I listen to National Party members of Government has followed. It is a bit crazy now for Parliament, the less I understand what they are the member to turn around and say that that trying to say. Mr Stoneman talked about what process is bad. The National Party suggested it! happened in Townsville and the Burdekin. He The reality in the world today is that smaller went on to say that he agreed with the outcome, councils, particularly in areas such as Warwick that he was pleased that his electorate was and other councils that are close to larger moved into the Burdekin Shire, but that he totally councils are being amalgamated. opposed it. He then referred to the Shires of Ilfracombe and Longreach. Nobody other than Mr Stoneman: Ilfracombe is gone, is it? Mr Stoneman has ever mentioned the Ilfracombe Mr MACKENROTH: No, I said areas such and Longreach Shires. Those shires certainly as Warwick, not Longreach. have not been referred to the Local Government Mr Stoneman: Why? Commissioner, and they are not intended to be referred to him. Mr MACKENROTH: The member is The member for Warwick referred to the new bringing that shire into the discussion. I have Warwick Shire and to its election. He said that he stated very clearly that Ilfracombe is not a local does not support de-amalgamation now that it authority that the Government is looking at. The has happened—and his party's policy is for de- member should listen: it is not. amalgamation—unless, and I listened very In relation to amalgamations in closely to what the member said, the majority of Australia—yesterday, the Liberal/National Party people in the shire came to the member Government in New South Wales announced personally about it. That means that if that it was going to amalgamate councils in New approximately 10 000 people came to the South Wales. In fact, it has listed which councils it member personally and convinced him that de- is going to amalgamate. There will be no amalgamation would be the best thing to do, he independent process; that Government is going would support it. That is not to say whether or not to do it. it was what the people wanted; the member said In Victoria, the Liberal/National Party that it was the best thing to do. Government has just simply amalgamated The whole argument for amalgamations is councils and it is continuing with that process. In based on what is best for the area, not what a few New Zealand, where the National Party councillors see at a particular time as being in Government went about amalgamating 700 their own vested interests. Mr Stoneman talked councils down to 70—— about bad legislation, that what the Government Mr Stoneman: And they did it by has done is wrong and that we should, to use his consultation in the real sense. word, "direct" the independent commissioner as to what outcome we want. If we are going to Mr MACKENROTH: They did not do it direct him as to the outcome that we want, we with consultation. I have discussed the issue of would not have that process. If it is bad legislation amalgamations with the New Zealand Local and the issue of having an independent Government Minister. He told me that they made commissioner inquiring into the matter—— the decision to amalgamate. They went ahead with it because it was the correct decision. Then Mr Stoneman interjected. one National Party member agitated about the Mr MACKENROTH: The member should issue, and they are having a look at one council listen. If having an independent commissioner to break it down once again. So they are going to inquiring into whether an amalgamation should or go from 70 to 71 when before they had 700. should not happen in an area is bad legislation, I suggest that the National Party should not have The issue of amalgamations is one that made that submission to EARC. The National responsible Governments must consider. This Party's submission to EARC stated that the Government has made absolutely no predetermined decisions in relation to any of Government should set up an independent these issues. office to carry out such investigations. I cannot quote the exact words of that submission, but Mr STONEMAN: I rise to a point of order. the National Party members went on to say in The Minister is misleading the House in saying their dissenting report to this Parliament that, in that there were 700 local authorities as we know fact, it would not be wise to hold polls of the them. That is not correct. people. The National Party's submission to Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Palaszczuk): EARC was that we should have an independent Order! The member shall resume his seat. That is process and an independent commissioner to a frivolous point of order. There is no point of consider whether or not there should be order and the next time the honourable member amalgamations. That is the process that the 4 August 1994 8874 Legislative Assembly rises on such a point of order, I shall warn him together the four local governments. I am certain under the provisions of the Standing Orders. that all members of that new local government will Mr MACKENROTH: I hope that that play their part—as I have always believed they warning will be under Standing Order 124, Mr would—in ensuring that the new local Deputy Speaker, because I could play a role government does work. I am pleased to be able then. to say that I have been a part of making the first mega shire in Queensland. The figure of 700 authorities was related to me by New Zealand's National Party Local Question—That the motion be agreed Government Minister. He is the person who gave to—put; and the House divided— me that information. I would figure that he would AYES, 30—Beanland, Connor, Cooper, Davidson, know what happens with his own portfolio—that Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Goss J. N., Healy, Horan, is, unless the member opposite is saying that he Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, McCauley, is incompetent. Malone, Perrett, Quinn, Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Turner, The Government will follow a course of Veivers, Watson Tellers: Laming, Springborg action that will involve looking at the electoral boundaries of local governments. In relation to NOES, 48—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bennett, Bird, this issue, the member for Indooroopilly raised Braddy, Briskey, Budd, Burns, Campbell, Clark, the fact that we have now had the election. We Comben, D’Arcy, Davies, Dollin, Edmond, Elder, have already debated this regulation once; it is Fenlon, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hollis, not as though it is something new. We have had Mackenroth, McElligott, McGrady, Milliner, Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Power, Purcell, Pyke, the debate. In that very debate, I can remember Robertson, Robson, Rose, Smith, Spence, being criticised for saying, "As sure as the sun Sullivan J. H., Sullivan T. B., Szczerbanik, Vaughan, comes up tomorrow, there will be an election, Warner, Welford, Wells, Woodgate Tellers: and there will be an amalgamation of the Warwick Livingstone, Pitt Shire Council." I was right. Resolved in the negative. For the record, I would like to congratulate the Mayor of the new Warwick Shire Council, The House adjourned at 5.38 p.m. Bruce Green. I wish him all the very best. There is a big job to be done in bringing