COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA Official Committee Hansard JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON ELECTORAL MATTERS Reference: Integrity of the electoral roll THURSDAY, 14 DECEMBER 2000 BRISBANE BY AUTHORITY OF THE PARLIAMENT INTERNET The Proof and Official Hansard transcripts of Senate committee hearings, some House of Representatives committee hearings and some joint com- mittee hearings are available on the Internet. Some House of Representa- tives committees and some joint committees make available only Official Hansard transcripts. The Internet address is: http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard To search the parliamentary database, go to: http://search.aph.gov.au JOINT COMMITTEE ON ELECTORAL MATTERS Thursday, 14 December 2000 Members: Mr Pyne (Chair), Senators Bartlett, Faulkner, Ferris, Mason and Murray and Mr Laurie Ferguson, Mr McClelland, Mr St Clair and Mr Somlyay Senators and members in attendance: Senators Bartlett, Faulkner, Ferris, Mason and Murray and Mr Laurie Ferguson, Mr McClelland, Mr Pyne, Mr St Clair and Mr Somlyay Terms of reference for the inquiry: To inquire into and report on: • the adequacy of the Commonwealth Electoral Act for the prevention and detection of fraudulent enrolment; • incidents of fraudulent enrolment; and • the need for legislative reform. WITNESSES EHRMANN, Ms Karen Lynn (Private capacity) .......................................................................................139 HUGHES, Professor Colin Anfield (Private capacity) ..............................................................................215 SCOTT, Mr Leslie James (Private capacity)..............................................................................................185 SCOTT, Mrs Margaret Anne (Private capacity) .......................................................................................185 Thursday, 14 December 2000 JOINT EM 137 Committee met at 8.50 a.m. CHAIR—Ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, having been delayed by the air transport problems of getting from Townsville to Brisbane in one morning, I declare open this hearing of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters inquiry into the integrity of the electoral roll. The integrity of the Commonwealth electoral roll is vital to the conduct of free and fair elections. It is therefore essential that the integrity of the roll is not compromised and that all Australians have confidence in the accuracy of the roll. The committee’s current inquiry is designed to do that. Today we are hearing from Ms Karen Ehrmann, Mr Les Scott and Mrs Anne Scott, Mr Lee Bermingham, Emeritus Professor Colin Hughes, the Australian Electoral Commissioner from 1984 to 1989, and Dr David Watson MLA, leader of the Liberal Party in the Queensland parliament. Five of the witnesses—Mr Ehrmann, Mr and Mrs Scott, Mr Bermingham and Dr Watson—will be able to provide the committee with different perspectives on the circumstances in which fraudulent enrolment was committed and came to be detected. Professor Hughes is a former Australian electoral commissioner and is a highly regarded expert on Australia’s electoral system. Today we hope to explore with him his views on the reasons for and extent of enrolment fraud as well as discussing allegations of enrolment fraud that occurred during his tenure as Australian Electoral Commissioner. The inquiry is not designed to probe the internal matters of Australian political parties. They are matters beyond the terms of reference except insofar as they impact on the integrity of the electoral roll. The hearings of this committee are public and open to all and a Hansard transcript of the proceedings is being made. The transcript will be available in hard copy from the committee’s secretariat or via the Parliament House Internet home page. Before the committee commences taking evidence, let me place on record that all witnesses are protected by parliamentary privilege with respect to submissions made to the committee and evidence given before it. Parliamentary privilege means special rights and immunities attached to parliament, its members and others necessary for discharge of the functions of the parliament without obstruction and fear of persecution. Any act by any person which may operate to the disadvantage of a witness on account of evidence given by him or her before the committee is treated as a breach of privilege. While the committee prefers to hear all evidence in public, the committee may accede to a request to take evidence in camera and record that evidence. Should the committee take evidence in this manner, I remind the committee and those present that it is within the power of the committee at a later date to publish or present all or part of that evidence to the Senate. The Senate also has the power to order production and/or publication of such evidence. I should add that any decision regarding the publication of in-camera evidence or confidential submissions would not be taken by the committee without prior reference to the person whose evidence the committee may consider publishing. The Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters intends to honour the suppression orders for the non-publication of names, addresses and evidence that were applied by the Criminal Justice Commission investigation into allegations of electoral fraud, known as the Shepherdson inquiry. It should be noted that the committee, if it passes this resolution, which I assume it will, authorises the recording, broadcasting and rebroadcasting of its proceedings today in accordance with the rules contained in the order of the Senate of 23 August 1990 concerning the broadcasting of committee proceedings, except insofar as the proceedings are a name, address or evidence that has been ordered not for publication by the Shepherdson inquiry. ELECTORAL MATTERS EM 138 JOINT Thursday, 14 December 2000 The secretariat will distribute a list of non-publication orders made by the Shepherdson in- quiry which may be helpful to representatives of the media in reminding them of a name, ad- dress or evidence suppressed by the Shepherdson inquiry. The media is reminded that in some cases names are suppressed only in relation to certain evidence before the Shepherdson inquiry and are otherwise available for publication. I ask a member of the committee to move that the JSCEM authorises the recording, broadcasting and rebroadcasting of its proceedings today in accordance with the rules contained in the order of the Senate of 23 August 1990 concerning the broadcasting of committee proceedings, except insofar as the proceedings are a name, address or evidence that has been ordered not for publication by the Shepherdson inquiry. The motion has been moved by Mr Somlyay and seconded by Senator Ferris. ELECTORAL MATTERS Thursday, 14 December 2000 JOINT EM 139 [8.54 a.m.] EHRMANN, Ms Karen Lynn (Private capacity) CHAIR—I welcome Ms Ehrmann to today’s public hearing. I would like to emphasise at the outset that this inquiry is about the integrity of the electoral roll. This is not an inquiry into the internal party matters of any political party, except insofar as they impact on the electoral roll. In answering questions, you should keep that fact uppermost in your mind and not be distracted by issues that are not in the domain of the committee’s inquiry. The evidence that is given at the public hearing today is considered to be part of the proceedings of the parliament. Accordingly, I advise that any attempt to mislead the committee is a very serious matter and could amount to a contempt of the parliament. Ms Ehrmann, I understand that you have provided a statement on a disk, which is being printed now, hopefully, by the secretariat. Can I suggest that, in order to save time, we proceed with questions and, when your statement arrives, at an appropriate juncture you might like to give that—in fact, I have just been informed that we have it now. Senator FAULKNER—Mr Chairman, can I make the suggestion that the question relating to the motion moved by Mr Somlyay and seconded by Senator Ferris be actually put? It was moved and seconded but I think it needs to be put by you. CHAIR—Of course. Those in favour of the motion moved by Mr Somlyay? Those against? It is carried. The secretariat will now distribute the media alert that was printed and the list of names and addresses and certain evidence. With respect to any new members of the media who come in, if they do not make themselves known to the secretariat, it would be helpful if other members of the media tell their comrades as they arrive that they should get the media alert from the secretariat. Ms Ehrmann, I invite you to make your opening statement. Ms Ehrmann—I understand that you have a number of questions, and I am not really sure what line they will follow. I have prepared a statement that I did intend to submit to the inquiry, depending on the sorts of questions that were asked, because I think this could clarify a few things. CHAIR—Would you like to read the statement? Ms Ehrmann—I will read part of the statement, if that is all right with you. CHAIR—Yes, you can read whatever parts you like. It is your statement. Ms Ehrmann—As this is an inquiry into the integrity of the electoral roll being heard by the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, and as I understand that the purpose of this inquiry is to investigate whether there need to be changes to the system to uphold the integrity of the electoral roll, I wish to do whatever I can to assist in what I hope is a genuine attempt to recommend real and practical improvements to our present system. I would, however, like the fact to be noted that I do not agree to be part of, or to be used in any way as part of, a political publicity stunt by any political party, or that any information that I give to this inquiry be used in a political attack or a political campaign by any political party.