(14 August, 1956.] 123 except in winter time. The broadcast band Mr. Ross Hutchinson: How could that from Cieraldton can be heard in Carnarvon be pushed any further? duning daylight hours in winter time, but the receiver requires so much power for Mr. NORTON: I was not suggesting his set that it results in all the statics and that the radius be pushed further. I sug- Interferences being brought in, so as to gested that programmes could be better practically make the service inaudible. distributed by more powerful stations, and, if necessary, more stations. I am The shortwave station which operates not advocating television for the North- on 2 kws on the 32 metre band is the one West; I am only asking for the ordinary tuned into by most people. If the power broadcast or shortwave service to be were raised to 10 kws, like the station audible. operating on the 60 metre band, a great deal of the trouble of the outback stations There is one thing which not only the would be overcome. If the Oeraldton people in Western Australia but in all station were raised from 2 to 10 kws, as Australia should do, and that is to press in the case of Wagin, far more people the Federal Government not to carry out could be served by Geraldton than at any more atomic bomb tests on any sea present. routes. Over the last two years we ex- I tested out the two stations on perienced a number of such tests at a car radio. I did this in the vicinity of Onslow. In every instance they not only Nookawarra station, out from Cue. At disrupted the State shipping arrange- 4 p.m. I could pick up Wagin clearly ments but also the air services, and, in which was 450 miles away, but I could not fact, every service which is supplied to hear Geraldton which was 180 miles away. the North. During the last tests, four of Prom that it will be seen that an increase the State ships were held up for over in the kilowatts of these stations would two days waiting for the all-clear to be enable them to service many more given. There is any amount of space in listeners. the world for the holding of these tests Ron. D. Brand: Is that matter not un- without picking on a shipping lane which der consideration by the Commonwealth is the life-blood of any country. at present? In conclusion, I would ask the Premier, when he goes to Canberra, to again bring Mr. NORTON: I have seen nothing before the appropriate authorities the about that in the report of the A.B.C. matter of taxation relief for the North- which I have here. I would point out West. The Premier has now seen a lot that the Commonwealth is rapidly going of that Part of the State for himself and ahead with the installation of television. I know he will appreciate the difficulties When such a service is installed it will be experienced there. Not only will he in the Perth, Bunbury, Kalgoorlie, Albany appreciate the difficulties, but also the and Geraldton areas. I understand each potentialities, and I am sure he can of these stations will radiate between 35 readily see the urgent necessity to encour- and 40 miles. Admittedly, that would give age, by some means, capital to that area. a service to 495,000 of the 639.771 head of population in Western Australia. Those On motion by Mr. Crommelin, debate figures were taken from the last census, adjourned. and in both cases they could be greater at present. I would urge the A.B.C. to p.m. give serious consideration to increasing House adjourned at 5.22 the power of the stations which will serve the North-West and the outback. By installing television, with its restricted radius, we are moving towards centralisa- tion, something which we are so urgently trying to avoid. Mr. Rhatigan: Once again it is a case of the forgotten North. Mr. NORTON: It is. The people of the North-West have very little entertain- ment, and the only thing they can rely on for entertainment is the wireless set, Tuesday, 14th August, 1956. whereas People living in towns and dis- CONTENTS. tricts to be served by television will have not only wireless entertainment but also Question : War service land settlement, pg television and other amenities which mast vacation and reallocation of tobacco farms 124 people in the North are deprived of at Address-in-reply, second day .. .. 124 present. Speaker on Address- Mr. Ross Hutchinson: What is the HOn. Sir Charles Lathiam...... 124 maximum range of television? Mr. NORTON: According to this 7th annual report of the A.B.C. it is between The PRESIDENT took the Chair at 4.30 35 and 40 miles. p.m., and read prayers. 124 124[COUNCIL.]

QUESTION. this is really a very important House. We have to pass all the State's legislation. We WAR SERVICE LAND SETTLEMENT. do not have control of finance, as that con- trol has been limited to another place; but Vacation and Reallocation of Tobacco we have the right to overlook all expendi- Farms. ture, and we have power to reject any Hon. F. D. WILLMOTT asked the Chief money Bill, a power which, of course, is Secretary: very seldom exercised. During my many years in this Parliament I do not rememn- (1) How many war service tobacco ber its ever being exercised. Nevertheless. farmers have left their properties? frequently the Appropriation Bill has been (2) In what districts are these farms delayed, not because of the Labour Party situated? being in power, but because of other parties (3) How many of these farms have been who held office and who thought that reallocated? further consideration should be given to (4) What does the Government intend some of the items of expenditure mentioned to do with unoccupied tobacco farms in in that legislation. the Northcliffe area? Many people talk about the abolition of The CHIEF SECRETARY replied: this House. In reply to that, I want to point out, especially to new members, that (1) and (2) Twenty-nine tobacco growers there is on the wall of this House a picture relinquished their leases: six at Manjimup, depicting the first five members of the 20 at Northcliffe and three at Karridale. Legislative Council of Western Australia. One lease was cancelled by the department. That initial Council was appointed in 1832 Twenty-two growers have been transferred and ever since that year we have had a to other types of farming. Eight lessees Legislative Council in this State. In fact. are on tobacco farms. until 1899 it was the only House of Par- (3) None. liament. In those days this State was very (4) Properties will be sold by tender on isolated because there was no rail com- terms determined by the Commonwealth. mnunication with other States, and there was very little population until gold was discovered. ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. However, the finding of the yellow speck Second Day. attracted to Western Australia a consider- Debate resumed from the 2nd August. able number of people, who were of a good type. From that year onwards we have HON. SIR CHARLES LATHAM (Cen- made steady progress, and I hope that for tral) [4.36]: At the outset I wish to apolo- many centuries ahead we will still have a gise for taking the place of Mr. Simpson, H-ouse of review to carry on the traditions who is sick, and I ask the Chamber to bear of the past. Members should realise that with me for a little while. My first duty is whilst there are three parties in this House, to congratulate the new members of this most legislation is considered from a non- House, and I would like to point out to party point of view. I know there have them that they have entered upon a very been times when I have voted against my important duty. I know there are many own party because I believed that, by so among the outside public-and some of our doing, I was acting in the interests of the political friends also-who regard this as people of the State; but I have never seen a not very important place, and practically any members of the Labour Party doing useless; but I would impress upon mem- that. bers that they have a great responsibility The Chief Secretary: They are the in this House, equally as great as that of greatest supporters you have had. another place, and Probably a little more Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I would so, inasmuch as this Chamber represents not say that. However, I remember, that on a section of the community that has a one occasion, I introduced a Bill and considerable stake in the State and which had great difficulty in getting it passed be- consequently provides the wherewithal, in cause my own friends, members of the many instances, whence come the neces- Liberal Party, opposed it. But I did re- sary funds for those engaged in other ceive support from the members of the avocations and represented by another Labour Party. Admittedly, it was fairly place. difficult, and I even had to smoodge to the I wish to congratulate the hon. mem- Chief Secretary. ber who moved the Address-in-reply, and I assure him that his speech was The Chief Secretary: That will be the quite up to standard. I believe that day! before he finishes his six years' term Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Yes, I here he will be one of the leading even had to persuade him with a few speakers of this House. I do not say well-placed remarks I put to him. AS a that simply because I wish to placate result I was successful in having that Bill him, but because I believe that older mem- passed. We can be big enough, I hope, to bers here should give encouragement to set aside our party views, if such action some of the younger members. After all is in the interests of the people of this [14 August, 1956.]

State. In another place, the Labour of £50, and he is entitled to representa- Party has been in power for quite a long tion in the Legislative Council. That is while, for varying periods from 1921 to almost equal to a person having no pro- date. perty whatsoever. Let us examine that The Chief Secretary: You did not con- point for a moment. gratulate them on getting back. It is the financial geniuses--the men Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: The and the companies--that have the money Government might have had only three behind them that make the wheels of in- years in office up till the last election in- dustry go around. There is no gainsaying stead of six because of events that took that they provide the work. I am a little place prior to the election. concerned for the future of Australia for Looking back to the years between 12 some little while. I was fortunate, or un- and 1927, I remember that some important fortunate, enough to be a Minister of the pieces of legislation were placed on the Crown during the depression period. I statute book by the late Hon. A. McCal- would point out that just before the first lum. I refer to the Workers' Compensa- World War this State was progressing tion Act and the Industrial Arbitration reasonably well; and in those days we Act. At the time we did not satisfy the knew that £1 was worth £1. In fact, outside organisations, but there is no doubt E1 was worth a golden sovereign. The that those two Acts were very excellent initial depreciation of the F ocmimenced pieces of legislation. In fact, they were when the Powers that be said. 'Let us the best of their type in Australia. Since print paper which will be equal to El." that time, there have been some amend- There was no backing for that paper ments made to them-I will not say im- money apart from the work performed by provements. There is no doubt, however, the people of the country. that those Acts have done a great deal for the working people in this State and Subsequently the war intervened, and they were passed by members of this we found that we did not have enough House. So it cannot be said that we are money to provide for the defence require- the disruptionists we are reputed to be ments of Australia. As a result, inflation occurred to a certain degree. During the by people outside the House. 1914-18 war most of our industries It is the consensus of opinion of many deteriorated because we did not have suf- people outside this House that there ficient labour and capital. should be only one Chamber in this State-namely, the Legislative Assembly. When the men returned from overseas In Queensland there is only one House of a similar state of affairs existed to that Parliament and it appears that there is which applied after the cessation of the going to be only one House for the rest of last war. Most countries were short of Queensland's history. food, and Australia was in the happy The Chief Secretary: Yes; they did a position of being able to supply quite a good thing over there. few of their wants shortly after the war finished; and, of course, we were able to Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I am not produce at a good profit. The price of too sure about that. In fact, the electors wheat rose to £1 a bag, which was un- originally voted against the abolition of heard of up to that time. The average the Legislative Council in that State; but price of wheat Per bushel was 10s. or the Government of the day, having the its. This enabled the man on the land numbers, passed the necessary legislation. to carry out developmental work which and the Legislative Council ceased to exist. had been held up during the war through In New South Wales the opportunity exists lack of funds. That materially helped. to hold a referendum on whether the Leg- islative Council should be abolished, but After the war, when the world was sup- to date no advantage has been taken of plied with all the requirements needed, it. I do not know whether the legislation and countries like Russia-with cheaper passed in that State is equal to that passed labour at their disposal-were able to com- here. However, it is not better. pete with us to our disadvantage, I won- dered how the people on the land ever Whenever the Labour Party gets into succeeded, or even managed to remain on power it seems to want to build up a it. The price of wheat got to as low as is. system that would enable it, at all times. a bushel, and the depression really set in to control the destiny of Australia. in Australia. I do not think that is very wise. After all is said and done, we have to remember I am saying these things because I want where the money comes from to provide Western Australians to know that if this State has no successful pastoral or farm- for the welfare of this State. We must ing industries, it cannot succeed and must also remember that the success or failure retrogress. I want to hammer this point: of the State depends on it. One cannot obtain money from any source The people of this State have a fairly without the necessary backing. If a wide franchise in regard to this House, country can back £ 1 of money with £1 of because a person has only to rent or own labour or goods, or anything else that is a house or possess property to the value tangible, then it is successful. [COUNCIL.]

About 1928 a very severe depression set I do not want to see a depression occur in, and Australia received its full effects in this country. I know the suffering that from 1930 to 1936, after which conditions took Place in the last one: so I am asking began to improve. Soon after that, World the Government and those supporting the War fl broke out. I am aware that many Government, irrespective of its politics, people have criticised the action taken to do all they can to assist any steps by the Federal Government, on the advice contemplated, if it is found necessary to of financial experts, under the late Hon. tighten the Purse-strings and legislate J. H. Scullin, who was a good Labour along those lines to maintain the present- leader and a statesman. The Government day security. provided a medicine which was not palat- Let us not forget that the prosperity we able, but nevertheless did cure some of experienced from 1943 to 1956 was due the ills. almost entirely to the price received for Unfortunately, people with no savings, our wool, wheat and coarse grains. Very and those living from hand to mouth and little else contributed to that prosperity. day to day were unable to look after In Australia the standard of living makes themselves; and in every State of the Com- it very difficult for us to compete with monwealth the Government had to do its other countries because of the high best to supply them with requirements for freights and the high cost of manufactur- living. I do not ever want to see a re- ing goods. I daresay that we could ex- turn to those conditions, but they can well port the products from the 10,000,000 return unless we look after ourselves in acres of forests, and we would get a ready the prosperous times. We experienced very sale for the timber at any price we liked good years, from about 1943 to 1956, but to charge, but we cannot deplete the I am afraid that the people have not forests which, in this State, are in a profited by those conditions. limited area, just because of a desire to I do not intend to lecture to hon. mem- Prolong our prosperity. We have to bear bers. and I have no desire to do so. I in mind the people coming after us, and know that I shall get no publicity for we have to look af ter their needs. anything I say, because the Press does I have seen many boys and girls grow not give publicity to members of this up into men and women, and I have seen House, except a chosen few. how the value of money has been lost In this period. What was a full week's Hon. L. A. Logan: There is not a Press wages for a man is now spent by his representative in the gallery. child on a day's outing to the Royal Show. Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: That is I see youngsters going to the Show these typical. I shall have something to say days with £3 to spend, but that is not about "The West Australian" later on. considered to be very much today. These There is no means of educating the people youngsters have no idea of the value of because they will not pick up Hansard and money. Instead of putting £2 of that read the speeches. If a genius were to money away, the parents give them the enter this House and he was favourably £3 and let them spend it. They could looked upon by the newspaper mentioned, have saved same of it for the children so he might get some Publicity. In the old that when they grew up they would have days members here got a great deal of something behind them. There seems to publicity. Those were the days when we be a lack of education in this regard. had some good stalwarts, but I shall not Irrespective of his politics, no mem- mention names. ber of Parliament should hesitate to im- I do not intend to belittle the present press on the people that the security which members. Whilst on the average they are we have experienced in the last few years younger, they are yet capable of learning may not continue in the near future. I and are equally as intelligent It is not am concerned about the falling values of -very heartening for members to know that exports. Governments are keeping the contributions in this House, well worth price of wheat up artificially, although publicity for the enlightenment of the wool is maintaining its price on the people, cannot be publicised except by world's market. Debased as it is, money is extracting the relevant portions from really short in Australia. Hansard, and distributing them to a hand- I read the other day that the Prime ful of people.. Minister had gone to the U.S.A. to negotiate a loan, somewhere around Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: "The West Aus- 120,00,000 dollars. In what way will we tralian" published only three and a half get this loan? If we got the dollars, what inches on the opening of Parliament. would we do with them here? We would Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I have have to repay the loan with commodities been in this House for 10 years. I would produced in this country. We could not just say that two full columns in "The West take the dollars; we would have to take Australian" would contain all the publicity the value in machinery or suchlike. Let that has been given to the speeches made us examine the result of that arrange- in this House in that time. It is not very ment. It will mean less employment in healthy when the leading newspaper does this State. Today the Government is nothing to educate the people. attempting to build up industries in this [14 August 1956.312 127

country. If that loan is successfully They simply realised that it was only by negotiated we will have to repay it. But working long hours that reconstruction what can we give in exchange other than could be achieved, and that is what must wool? be realised in Australia. The Germans did Australia today is manufacturing motor not mind working long hours, because it cars, as a result of building up secondary was for their country. industries, but in this regard our respon- We are not educating our people along sibility to our Motherland, which hais those lines, but I would like to see it done always been such a good market for our by all Parties and by the monopoly Press products, must be borne in mind. When in this State. The people should be edu- Australia is getting so short of money that cated to realise that their success will be it has to borrow it from the U.S.A., an measured by what they give to the coun- old man like myself begins to worry, try either by physical or mental effort. The Minister for Railways: This Is not They must be made to see that their con- the first time we have borrowed money tribution is worth more than pounds, from the U.S.A. shillings and pence, because it will keep this country solid. Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: No, we have borrowed money from that country in It must be pointed out, of course, that the past. We will probably have some diffi- the population is different now from what culty in repaying the loan. I do not know it was In the early days of which I have how the money is proposed to be spent or been speaking. Then, it totalled about what Australia will send in exchange, 439,000; now, we have nearly 700,000 unless it is spent on the purchase of goods people. That enables us to be a little required by us from countries that are in better off than was the case daring that need of American dollars. That might period. I do not think that there is any help in some respect. prospect of things being as bad as they The Minister for Railways: Films and were during the depression if we can get records take some payment, I should people to accept their responsibilities. I think. would hate to see another depression similar to the one we had, but I am a bit Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Yes. Are fearful of what is ahead of us. we not living with too much frivolity? Are we not catering too much for that sort All overseas countries are undertaking of thing? Are we not catering for the production of the very goods that we gambling, and doing all sorts of things can produce. By an inflationary method that we should not do? Australia's pros- they are providing bonuses for the grow- perity has been brought about by a de- ing of primary products which are neces- mand for goods that we have been able to sary to feed the people. But the people export, but we do not have very much pay. They do not know that they pay. chance of marketing manufactured They do not realise that when the Gov- articles. I have spoken of the inflation ernment gives them a bonus for the pro- that began in 1914. and the position was duction of milk or butter, it must come aggravated a great deal by the last war. out of the pockets of the people; and nobody seems to set himself out to edu- Some figures which I have looked up cate them. indicate that in July, 1933, the basic wage-after the adjustment of which I The people who are hit hardest by In- spoke, and which was made by a Com- flation are not those who can go to the monwealth Labour Government and, in Arbitration Court or to the Public Service turn, by all the State Governments ir- Board and ask for wage or salary In- respective of policy-was £3 8s. Today it creases. The people who are affected are is £13 is. 6d. I am not criticising that, those who through the years saved up to but I want to point out the value of the provide for themselves in their old age. currency at that time as compared with Those people have provided for them- today. The value of £1 in those days was selves a fixed income, and it has not been 20s.; now, it is 5s. so easy to keep their income abreast of rising prices as has been the case with People talk about the amount of money those able to appear before tribunals and we have. There is, in fact, a lot of money; seek additional remuneration. but the question Is: What will it buy? I remember the time when, in Germany, I am very concerned about such people. 2,000,000 marks-a mark previously being if they have an income of £3 or £4 per worth Is. OWd. in English currency-was week, they have no hope of obtaining anty sufficient to buy only a postage stamp, That other assistance. I can appreciate the was during the war period, and members feelings of those who have to struggle who are able to look back to those days along on £4 per week and who, in their will know that that was the position. It younger days. set aside something for Is marvellous how Germany undertook their old age, because they did not want reconstruction. It occurred because the charity: and I hope that an effort will be German people were loyal to their country. made in Australia-and particularly in There was no question about whether they this State-to do something for them. It should work 34 hours a week or 40 hours. is not easy while things are as they are 128 [COUNCIL.] at present. I would hate to think that I H-on. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: It did not had to live on charity, though I do not fail the last time. It succeeded. As I think the word 'charity" has the same pointed out previously, the medicine was meaning as in the old days. nasty; but we did do something. We did what will have to be done again shortly: When old-age pensions were first intro- we controlled interest rates. We controlled duced, people were very diffident about everything. We even had to reduce wages. accepting them. We had great difficulty Members at that time were in the grown- In persuading some folk to apply for a up stage and appreciated what had to be pension, small as it was. They felt that done. It is a far cry back to 1932. During they did not want charity. Now, people the first war and the depression period have been educated in such a way that fewer people married, and consequently some of them who could well afford to do there were fewer children to grow up and. without the pension find means of getting help carry the burdens of the State. As a It. I have no objection to people obtaining result, the percentage of older people in pensions if they can secure them and are the community is greater than would entitled to them. otherwise have been the case. I hope that Our States have not the problem which position will be improved in the future. faced them in earlier days when they had Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: There are too to find their own loan money. It is a very many young people being killed on the poor sort of arrangement when a father roads. has to provide the money for his family to spend; but that Is what is taking place. Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I do not The Commonwealth Government has to know how that can be overcome. find the money, and the States go along to Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: More people are their fairy godfather and say, "We want killed in road accidents than by war. millions of pounds." And the Common- wealth is expected to find them. I hunted Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I do not up some figures applying to the early know whether anything can be done in period of my political life for comparison that connection by just talking about it, with those of today and will give them to especially when one sees judges merely members a little later. putting offenders on a bond. I am afraid there is a good deal of carelessness. I do The problem is not one that is easy to not know why people have to speed. The overcome. It is easy to talk about, but not world got along all right when we used so easy to solve. If we cannot persuade the horse and cart and the buggy and pair. the members of the Legislative Assembly We seemed to get to our destination all to appreciate our point of view, it may be right under those conditions. There were necessary for this Chamber to assert itself not any accidents in those days. If people in some of these matters and convince would travel at 30 miles an hour they those in another place that it is not good would reach their journey's end safely, and government to get all the money it is they would be able to control machines possible to get and to spend it as fast as that are capable of 78 miles an hour. But possible. I am concerned about the in- young bloods must test themselves out! I creased charges that the Government Is agree that one becomes used to speed: and forced to make-increased railway charges unless he looks at his speedometer, a man and suchlike. does not appreciate the rate at which he is Hon. A. P. Griffith: And the ones they travelling. did not mention at election time. There are not many members here who were here at the time of the Collier Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: That is Government. I always regarded Mr. Collier a different matter. There are two voices. as a great Labour statesman, a man who One is exercised immediately after an was quite capable of taking over the Prime election when the Government is pretty Ministership of Australia. I worked with safe. The other is the nice, soothing voice him from 1921 until I left the Legislative which is used just prior to an election; Assembly to take up what I thought would and that sort of thing is done very well by be a much easier job. I was closely asso- the Labour Government. ciated with him, and I want to read to the The Minister for Railways: And by the House a few passages from a speech he Previous Government. As in 1952. for in- made in 1933. I would ask the younger stance. members of this Chamber to read that speech right through. It is to be found in Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: In 1952 Hlansard No. 1 of 1933, at page 241. this State was prosperous. What wvill Hon. A. F. Griffith: Was that the one happen in the future is this: If there is a in which he said, "Thank God for the depression, the other party will be brought Legislative Council!"? into Power in order to try to solve the difficulty. That is what will be done, mark Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: That is my words! not recorded; but he said it. Members have an opportunity to take words from The Minister for Railways: It tried pre- their speeches that do not seem quite viously, and failed. right! [14 August, 1956.]

Hon. 0. Bennetts: You would not say the week they find themselves out of occu- Hansard writers could not pick it up? Pation they are looking for some kind of assistance from somebody or other. Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: The SO. expressing my own opinion and speech to which I refer was made in 1933 only my own, I say there is that weak and it contained the following:- spot In the Australian character-an The position we aire faced with in excessive love of sport. If the older this State today, as in every other men have been governing the Austra- part of the world, is not the result of lian States, why is it? It is because government either by young men or the younger men of the present gen- by old men, but is the result of gov- eration have come into a life that af., ernment on entirely wrong lines, and forded them opportunities for leisure in that respect men and women of and enjoyment which they themselves all ages have participated. As an Aus- did not earn and which they them- tralian, I may be permitted to offer a selves played no part in securing. few remarks with regard to ourselves. While the serious matters of life, par- Whilst I would yield to no one in my ticularly the government of the coun- admiration of the splendid qualities try, have been left to the older men, possessed by the Australian, qualities te explanation is that the younger which I scarcely need indicate, for they men have been absorbed in or ob- are well known to all of us-initiative, sessed with a desire for pleasure, enterprise, daring, courage, dash, luxury and ease. If we go to our lib- imagination-all these fortunately raries or to meeting halls where belong to our people as Australians. thoughtful addresses may be delivered, Let us not close our eyes to the fact we find them comparatively empty, that there is another side to the page. while at the same time all the roads We are not 100 per cent. perfect. We that lead to jazz halls anid picture have defects, perhaps the defects of shows are crowded and congested with our qualities. If we turn around and the youth of the country. My state- consider what are the defects of the ment seems to be pretty hard, but it Australian character, I should say the is true. I do not blame the youth. outstanding defect is an excessive love They are simply the victims of the of sport, not for the sake of sport, but environment of the age and genera- for the gambling opportunities it pro- tion in which they were born and are vides. In no other country in the living. Just as in older times the world, so far as I know, is there such youth have done extraordinary or un- a degree or desire or love of gambling wise things, so are the Youth of today as there is in the Australian character. doing things according to the environ- I mention this because I think it is well ment in which they find themselves. that we should see the other side of Let us once and for all get rid of the the picture. Love of sport, yes; as one idea that old men have brought about who took part in a certain sport in the state of affairs that exist in the my youth, that of cricket, I welcome world today. I could, if I cared, have the fact that our boys and girls are recourse to history to Show that most taking part In large measure in out- of the great things in the way of re- door sport, which our climate encour- form done In the world have been ages them to do: but I am not a lover initiated and carried through by old of a so-called sport at which 40,000 or men. 50,000 people gather together on a That speech impressed itself upon me Saturday afternoon and roar them- at the time and I have never forgotten selves hoarse in barracking for Tom it. I thought it worthwhile to read that This or Bill That on a football field, Portion of it to members so that they might where there are only 36 men taking have an opportunity of hearing the words part; rather would I prefer to see a of a man for whom, although he followed much smaller crowd of a few thous- a different branch of Pollitics to my own, ands looking on and 30,000 or 40.000 I taking part in some kind of outdoor had the greatest respect, and who did exercise for themselves and for their a great deal for the Labour Party. I hope members will read the whole of his speech own benefit. My travels, not only In because I can assure them that it is well Australia but in other parts of the worth the trouble. world, have led me to the conclusion that people nowhere, no race I have The speech was made at the time when any knowledge of, is so given to an ex- he took over the Premiership from the cessive love of gambling as is the Aus- Government of which I was a member tralian race. Men who for 20 or 30 and which had passed through a very dif- years have been employed in good ficult period. The late Hon. Phillip Collier positions on full. time wages and was a, man of great vision and one who reasonably good wages and salaries- was capable of giving advice. I think the this applies also to men in commerce State profited by his vision. In those and business-at the end of the first days a speech such as that would have ".130 130[COUNCIL.]

been given half a page in the daily paper, share, and it is of no use their thinking and in that way it helped to educate the that this is a time to get rich quickly and people and did a great deal of good. to maintain their industries. They can- The Government now proposes to in- not do it. They have to build up businesses crease railway charges and water rates in that will be able to stand in the future, order to get more money. Of course, these and they have to put by certain sums increases take the money away from the for reserves to tide them over the times people who have it to spend; but it is onfly that lie ahead. ap palliative and cannot be of any great I am not a pessimist-not by any and lasting benefit. These increases might means. I have lived long enough to know draw in some money that would other- that pessimism does not get us anywhere. wise be spent injudiciously, and I cannot A smile and an optimistic outlook get us think of any other way of paying for the much further. But, after all, it is only services which the Government gives to commonsense to realise that if folk are the people. Consequently, I do not con- going to throw away their huge profits demn the Government; but after all, the and not worry about the future, their easy way, if one has to get money, and it businesses will not be built on a solid foundation. We also have to get the can be borrowed, is to borrow it. labouring fellows-these days they do not But I put this suggestion to the Ministers have to work so hard as did the old men in this House: Would it not be worth- who are today grey-headed and receive while to study our various departments pensions--to put a little money by for a to see whether we are getting full value rainy day. for the money we are spending on them? But even that is of no use unless we do We have just been listening to a talk by something to stabilise the value of our the Postmaster-General of Australia: and money. Every year Commonwealth loans, I thought, when he was talking of the mil- which were subscribed to during the war lions that are being expended on depart- period-because we had no other way of ments under his control, what a saving it helping-are falling due; and bonds that would be if we could save only a million will fall due in 1964 will be of far less or two by a better organised system. value, because of the present-day value After all, we are using a large number of the E, than they were when the money of mechanical devices in these days. The was first subscribed. The value of the E old days, when -men worked with picks has depreciated considerably, and that and shovels, have gone. I am not sorry can be seen If one reads the daily paper atotr that, either, because it 'was hard and discovers what the public is prepared to work, and I did'my share of it. I can re- pay for these bonds. Their value has member the sore hands that I used to get, dropped considerably. and the bent back I received from work I do not know the remedy, but I think of that type. But by using these mechani- that members in this House and employers cal means, are we getting any better fin- and employees ought to be told the true ancial results? We should be able to do story. This subject ought to be discussed the work at a quarter of the cost. outside Parliament House instead of the Some of the big works in this State public being told all the nice plausible were carried out by men using picks and things that are mentioned at election times shovels, and I refer particularly to the when we try to excel one another in giv- ,Goldfields Water Supply Scheme. In ing everything a nice colour and dealing those days, the pipes were buried~whereas out sugar-coated medicine. I do not know today, they are left on the surface and how the problem can be overcome; but if no skill is needed in doing that type of some organised attempt were made. I be- work. lieve it would be possible to do something It was a dreadful thing when the first about it. money was borrowed. It was borrowed by I do not blame the Ministers but the a Labour Premier, the late Hon. John Civil Service cannot do what the ordinary Scaddan. "The West Australian" christ- businessman can do. There are a few ened him "Gone a million Jack." But in State enterprises in Western Australia, and those days only small sums were borrowed. among them we have seven State hotels. At tha 't time a sum of £3,000,000 was in- A short time ago, a statement appeared in volved, and the people thought that it the "Daily News"; it was written by a man was a terrific burden. But gold, which was who had not been outside the City of Perth. at the other end of the pipeline, paid for It was a statement on the State hotels; It, and the State has developed quicker and while I do not wish to use the Press to because of It. A solid foundation for the express my views, I would like to discuss State was laid and we have been able this particular item, because obviously the to increase our Population because of that person who wrote it was not highly water supply system. educated in these matters. I do not say that the Government is He referred to the Kwolyln State hotel entirely to blame for the state of affairs --and this is not an isolated case-and inx which we find ourselves today. The told Quite a good story about it. But he employers of labour have to take their said that that hotel was situated about £14 August, 1956.1

48 miles the other side of Bruce Rock; is only the weak people, or those who do whereas it is 27 miles this side of it, not value money, who would subscribe to Obviously his geographical knowledge is it. We have, however, grown worse since very limited. He followed that up by then. talking about State hotel earnings, and I will admit that the State Lotteries said that they paid about £4,000 into Con- Commission has provided good hospitals solidated Revenue each year. I know a for the State and a number of amenities man who had seven hotels and he made in the country. It is a well-run organ- a little fortune. ization, and it has also provided for some Hon. N. E. Baxter: He would not be old people. It makes me very sad when able to do it today. I know of people who have nowhere to live where they can be looked after, and no Hon, Sir CHARLES LJATHAM: He went money because they are unable to earn through the hard times, too--they were a any. darned sight worse than they are today. He went through the depression period We have now a body called the Licen- when a man had to look at every sixpence sing Court which is suspending the law of the country; because, under the Police Act he spent, although in those days a pot and under the Criminal Code, it is defin- of beer did not cost sixpence. The man- itely regarded as a criminal offence for agement of the hotels today cannot make anyone to gamble. The Code states what the money, and the problem is made worse gambling is, and it is given a very wide by the present Licensing Court. I make interpretation. We have had Government that statement because the members of alter Government countenancing this sort the bench are making no attempt to try of thing since 1928-29 when starting- to maintain the standard of our hotels; price betting first commenced. I think it and in my opinion the people are entitled started about that time. to a decent standard, The Minister for Railways: It started The Minister for Railways: What was before that. the standard? Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: No; it Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I do not did not. say that there are no good hotels in the State. There are some very good country The Minister for Railways: The bettors? hotels; but there are some deplorable ones, Hion. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: No: too. The Licensing Court is also encourag- tobacconist shops were used. We used to ing clubs; and the clubs are not satisfied, pick the men up while they were betting. as I have said before in this House, to The Minister for Railways: The bettors. make a profit only out of what they sell over the bar, but have also introduced Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: We used gambling machines. to collect them and take them to the We have a Licensing Court which has Police station and recover £1 from them for the temerity to stand up and say, "We bail. Some of them used that to pay the are going to allow you to break th;e law fine in advance. until December; and then, after that, we The Minister for Railways: You did are going to enforce it." Ministers ought not go to the racecourse and collect them to dismiss the members of the court at there also. once! How dare they say that they have Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I could the power to suspend the law of this trace the law back and show that the country! That is the job of the two Houses gambling law was never repealed. I would of Parliament-of members of Parliament have to go back a very long period, how- who are elected by the people. ever, because, as Mr. Heenan would know, Hon. E7. M. Heenan: I think they had to find the foundation of the law dealing gambling in clubs when You were a Minis- with gambling one would have to go back ter. to the first Act Passed by Parliament which made it illegal. I have traced it Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I am throug~h and I also drew Sir Ross not saying that it is right or wrong, but McDonald's attention toDit. I felt, however, it is a statement made with this Govern- that if the Crown Law Department wanted ment in power. to find the Act and do anything about it Hon. E. M. Heenan: What would you that department could do as I did. I do do? not think It has been repealed, though it may have been amended by some of the Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Exactly more recent statutes we have passed here. the same as the hon. member-nothing, because it is not in my province. I have We have certainly encouraged gamb- enough work to do. I admit that I may ling a great deal since. As I say, I was have been responsible for the commence- probably responsible to a certain extent ment of the State Lotteries. It was prob- for the inauguration of the State Lot- ably a bad foundation, but we did say teries Commission, and I backed the that all the money should go to provide Government in that. The reason for my necessities for the people. It is, however, doing so, however, was that at that time an unfair method of taxation, because it crossword pussles were in vogue, and [COUNCIL.] there was a considerable amount of mani- however, that the position will become as pulation and sharp practice taking place. bad as it did in South Australia. There, At the tune, I thought if that sort of the regulation was amended stopping bet- thing could happen there could be noth- ting in Adelaide, and leaving only one place ing honest about it; and accordingly I where it is allowed. If the police can be supported the introduction of the State dilatory in their duty in one respect, they Lotteries. can be dilatory in another. We pass I think members will agree that of all legislation in good faith and that legisla- forms of gambling the lotteries is prob- tion should be enforced. ably the best we have in Western Aus- I do not think the Licensing Court has tralia. If we did not have it here we Power to deal with gambling. The police, would find People trying to get rich by however, know that Poker machines are some of the methods employed in other still in operation in the State. I voiced States. I have never got very much out an opinion on this matter last session, and of the bobs I have put in, and I do not I am amazed to see how much money goes gamble along those lines. through these machines. I know of a What powers the Licensing Court has little town which is outside my province. to prevent gambling in clubs, I do not and therefore I will not mention its name. know. But I do know that over a long It is not very far from my territory, how- period of time the police in this State ever, and I am well known there. I will have not done their job properly; they simply tell members a story about it. A have not done the work they are paid club has been built there at a cost of to do. I think that in the old days they about £30,000. Would not that go a long used to recover something like £200 a way towards providing homes for some of week in the first instance. It then rose our old people? There is only one to £400 a week, and then to £800 a week. machine, and though I am not sure of If it were not organised, how could the my f acts, I am informed that that machine amounts be cut off at those I have men- cannot be purchased. tioned? Of course it was organised! The Chief Secretary: It is always The Commissioner of Police should have dangerous to talk of something about been dismissed when that started, but he which you know nothing. was not. Now, since the Government has licensed starting-price betting in shops, Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I am this has got a lot worse. It is most dis- now talking about something which is a graceful and degrading; and, as a minority, fact. I was told the machine was worth I had to suffer it though I did not agree £700, and they could not pay for it straight tolit. out. I know that is a fact, because a close relative of mine gave me that in- The Chief Secretary: You will agree formation. I am told that £1,500 was made the position has improved considerably. In less than a year out of that machine; H-on. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Does and that happened in a town as small as the Chief Secretary know the amount of that. The £1,500 went to the People who turnover there was last year? made the machine in Fremantle. It came The Chief Secretary: I saw the figures. from Fremantle. I am also told-and the Chief Secretary may be able to put me Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Does the right in this-that the Fremantle Workers' Minister mean to tell me that the men who Club is building additions which are to paid into that amount could afford to do cost £70,000. so? The Chief Secretary: They have been Hon. F. R. H. Lavery: Would you built and are in operation. suggest that £1 more was spent than pre- viously? Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: An amount of £70,000 is spent on a club, and Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: The I am informed that these machines have bon. member probably has more intelli- been very useful in providing a lot of the gence than I have, and he can answer money; yet the hon. member shakes his that. I do not think so much money was head indicating that it is not true. spent previously. Does he imagine that The Chief Secretary: I cannot say. Charlie Latham would like the minister of his church to see him come smilingly Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: The out of one of these places? Minister is probably like me; he possibly does not go into these clubs. I give him Hon. E. M. Heenan: Have you been credit for it, and will now put him on my around and seen them? visiting list. Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I have Hon. A. P. Griffith: The Minister is never been into a betting shop. not allowed to interject. Hon. E. M.L Heenan: You should go Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: He is, around. It is your duty. if it will help me with my speech! Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I am Suppose the police said they would not not saying the buildings are not attractive, lock a man up when he was stealing: or that they are not comfortable in order it would be ridiculous. The law must be to induce the people to enter them. I fear, enforced without favour or vindictiveness. [14 August, 1958.] 133

I am not sure whether it is a question of The Chief Secretary: You are in a ministerial control, and I do not think the critical mood. Commissioner of Police need worry about the Minister giving him instructions. I Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I have a think he has sufficient power to do what duty to express myself in the interests of he should in this direction. It is not a the People I represent. I may be critical, good policy for any Government. whether but as the Chief Secretary must realise, I it be that which I support or any other. have not said one word against the I hope we will have an opportunity of Government today. saying something more about that later. The Chief Secretary: I appreciate that. I would like to appeal to the people of Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Not that Western Australia, both employers and I could not, but on this occasion I have employees, to have a thought for the no desire to do so. After one has perused future. The good Periods we have the first three pages of "The West Aus- experienced over the past 10 years are tralian," one notes that in order to place gradually diminishing. I should like to a value on the advertising matter, there is see the manufacturer in a Position where just a little strip of news included with the he is able to stand up to hard times, just advertisements. It is something very un- as we expect the farmers to be able to important; but it is Press matter. Not only stand up to drought and less attractive do the public have to pay 4d. for the Prices. It is also reasonable to expect the paper, but the advertising rates are very labourer to give a fair day's work for the high, too. I am not sure that I would money he receives. If that happened I not support think we would then be able to withstand a Government that brought the effect of the period through which we out its own daily paper. may be passing in the near future. Hon. A. R. Jones: What about a select committee? The farmer, of course, is subject to world market prices; he has no say in Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: A select it. I told members about wheat we had committee!I Who would give effect to its stacked here and could not sell for Is. a findings? The other day I received a paper bushel, when the Russians were landing from Northern Ireland which cost only 3d. it on the London wharves for about that in that country, and it contains very little price. There was, of course, a much worse in the way of advertising matter. "The period in 1890 when the banks were clos- West Australian" should not call itself a ing their doors. and were unable to make newspaper, as it is only an advertising advances available to the people on the medium to get more money for its share- land. We now have a reserve banking holders. I notice that at last we have system which makes all the necessary a representative of "The West Australian" advances. in the gallery, but the paper will not pub- I want to say a few words about mono- lish any part of my speech tomorrow polies. I am dead against any group of morning. That will not hurt me, because people who band themselves together for I have the intelligent members of this the purpose of creating a monopoly or Chamber to talk to. They will think I controlling an industry. One of the have talked same commonsenSe this greatest offenders in this State is West afternoon, even if they do not hold with Australian Newspapers Ltd. That com- all that I say. It is deplorable that pany has bought up the two leading "The newspapers, and for anybody to enter into West Australian" has lost the great repu- competition with it would be difficult, as tation it had. he would require a great deal of money to In another place a piece of legislation do so. was passed which made it almost impos- sible to take libel action against the news- I would like to examine the news Pub- papers of this State. When I was a young lished by this paper. Are those in control member in another Place a Bill was in- of "The West Australian" publishing it troduced to remove some of that power. to educate the people, or to provide the If one wanted to take an action against retail shops with a means of getting rid a newspaper, one had to put up sufficient of their goods? On the first two or three pages Is published all the horror news that money to cover all the costs of the case. can be gathered in this State, or in Aus- If the paper said it had a representative tralia as a whole; and when there is not in London whose Presence at the hearing enough from those sources, it is obtained of the proceedings was necessary, the per- from other parts of the world. Is that the son taking the action would be required to type of education we want to give our pay for that individual a first-class fare public? I do not think it is edifying or to Australia and back again. We tried to educational. take some of that power away. There is in this House now, and Hon. G. Hennetts: You will find the Ia donew not generation think there is one man here who same with the pictures that are shown. was in the Chamber at that time. The No wonder the children are Playing up! Bill never passed through this House, but Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I do not it did pass through another place, despite think some of the Pictures are good. I a great deal of opposition from a man who want to finish with "The West Australian" was vitally interested in a newspaper. That before dealing with the A.B.C. particular paper is now Increasing its 134 [ASSEMBLY.]

prie from 6d. to 7d. from its next issue, marks may not be very enlightening. which is going to take a little more money encouraging or worthwhile; but I hope I now that it has ceased publishing one of have made a contribution which will reach its other papers. the People. The best people outside I would have liked to have a word with are Probably those associated with the the Postmaster-General, as I think he churches, but many people cannot be at- controls the Australian Broadcasting Com- tracted to them, as the late Mr. Collier mission. I am disgusted with the horrible said. it is hard to get people to church; screeching noises that come over the air but a big fight will fill a hall. I do not on Sundays during the presentation of propose to say anything further at the some of the horror plays; and unless young moment, but I hope my contribution to people are different from what I was in my this debate has expressed my true feelings. young days, they must be disgusted, too. On motion by Hon. G. C. MacKinnon, Is that edifying or educational for our debate adjourned. young people? It is time the A.B.C. was asked to give House adjourned at S.58 p.mn. a little thought to doing something better for the people in this country. It is only a young country, with a small number of people, and we are going to depend on the younger generation, Honror stories will not help them. Hon. J. M. A. Cunningham: What about television? Will we see horror pictures on it? Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I Saw television in England, but I did not see Amwrnubtu any horror pictures. I did see Mr. M ernzies ?.Ligiuatinc at times. Tuesday, 14th August, 1956. The Chief Secretary: Was not that a horror picture? CONTENTS. Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: No. He Questions : War service land settlement, Pg told us stories in his nice, plausible operation of new leases ... 1. 135 manner. He was questioned by someone State land tax, (a) effect of revaluations 135 on the other side of the table, and he gave (b) payment by widows...... 135 the pleasant smile he can always give Electricity supplies, (a) Karridale- when he wants to, and it was very satis- Augusta area...... 136 factory. (b) South-West power scheme ... 18 The Australian Broadcasting Commis- Fishing industry, North-West survey ... 136 sion is probably giving the public what it Hire purchase, application of Money thinks it wants; but is it commonsense to Lenders' Act...... 138O Gravel, payment to landholders and give people all they want? Should not filling-in of pits...... 138 a medium of that sort be used to educate Traffic, (a) drivens' licences expiry the people? I do not object to the broad- notices...... 137 casting of sport, such as cricket. But why (b) pedestrian crossing, Perth-Kwin- all the third-rate stuff such as that dealing ana Highway...... 137 with the shooting-up of people or the ex- (e) control for pedestrian crossing 1..3i7 periences of a man living with another's Water supplies, steel used and pipeline wife? It depresses me: it really does! I to Iffinnivale and Wyalkatchem ... 137 have to listen to it each Sunday evening Harbours, improvement at Geratdton 1..37 at a friend's place. Tram and bus services, South Perth An organisation such as the A.B.C. is able routes...... 138 to build up the morale of the people or Railways, freight charges .. ... 138 bring it down to degradation-to educate Fruit growing Industry, supply of cases 1ag them, or to put them back in the dark Housing, deferred payment system ... 139 ages. The A.B.C. should use its power and Workers' compensation, formula used by influence to better purpose. Broadcasting Premium Rates Committee ...... 139 is a marvellous innovation when used to Roads, allocation of Federal aid funds 139 build up the morale and point to the best Address-In-reply, fourth day .. ... 140 way of life for the people. The Press and Speakers on Address- the broadcasting people have a very great Mr. Crommelin...... 140 responsibility, and I do not consider they The Premier ...... 142 are living up to what I expect of them. Mr. Ackland ...... 149 However, they will say, 'Why take any Mr. Johnson...... 158 notice of an insignificant person like him?" When I hear the news and wonder just how far away another war is. it makes The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30 me-an old man-very depressed. My re- P.m., and read prayers.