[19 OCTOBER, 1948.])71 1711

Referring to my question and then answer thereto on the above subjevt (vide Minutes of the Proceedings of the Legislative Coun- Tuesday, 19th October, 1948. cil No. 26 of the 30th September last)- 1, Why was the recommendat[ion of the Select Committee ignored? CONTENTS. page 2, Who was responsible for the recon- Assent to Dill ...... 1711 st.-uction of the Railway Advisory Board? Auditor General's report; Section " A," 1IM 1711 Question : Railways, as to standard gauge 3, Who are the memabers of this boardV and advisory board's report. ... 1711 4, Will the Minister table the report of Motions:. Obituary, late Hot. P. Collier, M.L.A. .. .. 1711 the hoard!~ increase of Rent (War Restrictio'ns) Ac~t, The GRIEF SECRETARY replied: to disallow court proeedings regula- 1714 *1, The Government of the day decided to Bills : Supply (No. 2), £8,700,000, Standing refer the matter to the Railway Advisory Orders suspension, all stages. .. 1716 Bush Fires Act Amendment, Ir;. .. 1716 Board. Health Act Amendment, Sr..... 1719 2, The former Premier, Haon. F. J. S. Stats Housing Act Amendment, Wise, in May, 1946. passed ...... 3r.,.. 1719 Marriage Act Amendment, Assembly's 3, Members of the board who reported amendments...... 1719 on the matter were- Registration of Births, Deaths and Mar- riages5 Act Amendment, Assembly's Ake-4srs. the late T. S. Parry, Surveyor amendments ... .. 1719 General, Chairman; D., Brisbane, 'Manager, Builders' Registration Act Amendment, Midland Railway Ca. of Western Australia; Corn .. .. 172 Western Australian Trotting Association G. K. Baron-Hfay, Under Secretary for Act Amendment, 2r...... 1781 Agriculture, Western Australia; A. MeCiil-' Adjournment, special 173 loagh, Deputy Chief Civil Engineer, W.A.G.R. 4, Yes. The PRESIDENT took the Chair .at 4.30 p.m., and read prayers. NWOTON-OBITUARY. The Late Hon. F. Coller, X.L.A. ABSENT TO DILL. Message fromn the Lieut.-Governor received THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. HI. S. and read notifying assent to the Brands Act W. Parker-M.%etropolitan-Suburban) [4.42]: Amendment Bill, 1move- That this House places on record its sin- AUDITOR GENWERAL'S REPORT. ccc7 appreciation of the services rendered to the State by the late Hon. Philip Collier, a Section "A", 1948. member of the Legislative Assembly, a former The PRESIDENT:- I have received f rom Mnrxister of the Crown and for many years Premier, and to express its deep sympathy the Auditor General a copy of Section "A" to his wvidow and family on the irreparable of his report on the Treasurer's' statement loss they have sustained in hiskdeath; and that of the Public Accounts for the financial year thi) President be asked to forward this resolu- ended the 30th June, 1948. It will be laid tican to his widow., on the Table of the House. The late Hon. Philip Collier wvas person- ally known to a great many of us. He was; QUESTION. a man of an extremely kindly nature; a man RAILWAYS. with a keen sense of humour and of respon- sibility. Hie led this State as Premier for a As to Standard Gauge and Advisory Board's long period-in fact, for nine years, For Report. ten years be ivas Leader of the Opposition Hon. A. THOMSON asked the Chief and for some 14 Years in all he was a Min- Secretary:-s ister of the Crown. Kalgoorlie-Fremantle railway: Southern He -was elected as representative, for Cross-Corrigin route to Fremantle, Equlder in October, 1904, so that for 43

171l 1719 1712COUI$CILJ1

years he had been a mewber of the Legis- age af 22 years hediAst madeaasatrk asesoe lature and had given of his best in the fram- retaxy to the late Xr. Frank Lnstey i ig of the laws for the government of the was a member of the Commoni&lb Pwlia country. He was Minister for Mines from meat. Thus Mr. Collier started on, his lonj October, 1911 to July, 1916, Minister for career of public work well over half a een Railways from October, 1911 to November, tiny ago. The yonnlpr generation, does no 1914; Minister for Water Supply, Sewerag& realise today the great debt of gratitude i and Drainage from November 1914 to 'owes to men like Mr. Collier. July, 1916; Premier, Treasurer and Min- It was not always a popul~ar task to hi ister for Forests from April 1024 to April .& leader, but right from the age. of 22 year .1930; Premier, Treasurer and Minister for unti he resigned through ill-health from thi from the 24th April, 1933 to Lba Forests Premiership of thi State, Mr. Collier dih 19th August, 1936, when lie resigned. He remarkable work for the Labour moverneni VWa Leader of the Opposition from 1907 to- and as a statesman in Western Australia 3.924 and again from 1930 to 19M3. I -am pleased to, bear the Chief 'Seeretarl * All members, will agree that that is a. 'speak of the lastimug value of Mr. Collier'i record of which anyone could he proud, and work. The deceased gentleman 'was able t it must he a great relief to his faanily inL inspire confidence in people who were elosi their sorrow to realise how great a man wa to Ifim politically and also in his opponent Hon. Philip Collier. He was extremely able as well. I think he, with others, raised tin and without doubt an outstanding manof standard of conduct in the Houses of Par. his generation in the history of this State. liament. in Western Alustralia. * There were many dif ficult times durin 'nose of us who have read what the eon. which be led his Government with great. duct of Parliaments used to be in the ok credit to himself and also to the advance- ,days, regret that -we have not the same spiril menit of the State. He contributed tremend- in the Commonwealth Parliament as ani. ously to the welfare of Western Australia rates the Parliament of this State. I thini and, to his credit be it said, one direction inL Hon. Philip Collier did much to raise the which he did a grpat amount of good for this; :4tandard of conduct of members and theii country was the reforestation of our timber respect for each other's political opinions, areas- He was partic-ularly keen and in- His passing is a great loss to the State and terestedl in that work, realising and always the Commonwealth.. It will also be a severE appreciating the value of those forests to blow to the Labour movement in Western Western Australia. We are now beginning Australia. He -was a brilliant leader and to feel inl a small -way the benefits of his I shall never forget him. * foresight in that respect, and in years to come they will be even inure prononced. RON. G. rRASER (West) [4.501: 1 Philip Collier was a man of very keen greatly regret the necessity for the motion. humanitarian feelinig. and wIU, always oit I iernonally fe") that I owe a debt of deep to help all classes and sections of the corn- gratitude to the Ile -.%r. Collier. Hle assisted inunity. When I first entered Parliament me in my first election camnpaign in 1928 ana he was a great. help) to me and tendered much I believe that the help he gave mie at that excellent advice, as be did to all new mem- time was largely responsible for m-y success. bers. I feel sure the State is the poorer by Since being a member, I have hail the privi- the passing of such a mar'. He -will indeed be lege of servingx under him as Leader of ttq hard to replace. Although hie retired from Party, and 1 know of no better mnan than the Premiliership some- years ago, I feel that he under whom one could study. been flilled, and his place has not yet really I recall that on one occasion a delegation it -will be some years before we shall be from England had been visiting Australia able to find a suitable successor to him. and was completing its tour in this State. 4 At a dinner given to the visitors at Parlia- HON. E. H. GRAY (West) [ .47]: 1 meat House, the greatest tribute that could desire to second the motion. The late Hon. ble paid to any man was offered to the late Philip Collier ranks high in the inemorie5 hon. gentleman. The leader of the delegation of the old school of the Labour movement. statedl that, after having visited the whole I particularly meution that because at the of Australia, they had met the most states. [19 OCT'OBER, 1948.] 1713

manlike man in the Commonwealth in Mr. 43 years of his representation of Boulder, Collier. he 3erved his constituents Well and traly.

HON. G. BENRETTS (South) [4.52]: 1 desire to support the motion because my HON. SIR CHARLES LATHAM (East) province includes the district represented [4.56] : 1 should like to associate mvAzelf by the late hon. gentleman and because, be- with the remarks of the Chief Secretary ing- a pioneer of the Goldfields, I know and other members. For 21 years I was siomething of his career and what he did associated wvith the late -Mr. Collier in alt- for the goldnilning industry at a time when other place. He was a man who held very the outlook for the Golden Mile was very strong ideas and did not hesitate to express black. For- his work on that occasion, he wil them. Forty-three years of service to a not be forgotten on the Goldfields. His fore- country -is a very long period out of one's sight, too, in providing a water supply for life, but I believe he gave it willingly and the Nor~emain district, which is one of the with great results to this State. best of the goldmrining areas, will ever be .Ari. Collier 'id niot alwvayv entertain remembered and'apjpreciated. strong political feelings one way or the I cla-s the late Mr. Collier as one of the other. I (hink lie rearded most questions four outsttanding men we have had in this from a broad angle and perhaps that ac- State. Firstly, I would name the late Lord counits for his having been so well liked by Forrest andi with him Mr. Collier, Sir Jam"s merolwrs of all Parties. His appointment Mitchell, who we are pleased to know is still of the present Governor of the State set a wvith us, and the late C. Y. O'Connor. I very high standard of good fellowship be- must confess to a feeling of regret that tween memlbers (if ]'arliament. IDuring mny we have to lose such statesmen and such early years in polities, sonic memnbers de- go(od citizens,. The late Mr. Collier stood clinedl to speak to others. I am pleased high in the esteemu, not only of supporters that thoe days. have gone. While 'ye mnight of the Lalbour niovemient, but also of people differ politically-, there is still room for generally throughout the State, and 1, too, warm, personal regarid without permitting, reg-ret the necessity for the motion, pot-tics to interfere. I believe that Sir James M1itchell and Mr. Collier laid the RON. R. J. BOYLEN (South) [4.54]: I foundation for the excellent feeling that support the motion. 11*v acqu aintauce with prevails amongst members today. Mr. Collier extended over ninny years. His When the late hon. gentleman retired from 9asociatio,, with the Labour mnoveraent a 11( the Premiership, he was suffering failing the Parliomnit of this State was ('earer to health. .Just before that time attempts were his heart than any' other interest. From his made to induce him to enter Federal politics. experience of many year.,, he was always I remember discussing the matter with him ready' to advise younzer members. Mr. Col- whun the late Mr. Lyons was coming on the lier endeared himself not Onlyv to the electors scene anld Mr. Collier's presenee was re- he represented, but also to the l)eople of quired to lead the Federal Labour Party. the Goldficlds and throughout the State However, Mr. Collier's statement was that generally. he owed a great deal to Western Australia and that whatever he could give would be HON. W. R. HALL (North-East) [4.55]: at the service of this State. No doubt he I, too, desire to support the remarks of followed out that idea. previous speakers. I regrtecednl h passing of one of the greatest parlia- THE PRESIDENT: T wish to associate nmentarians the State has ever had. Mr. myself with the remarks made by the Leader Collier was a sound Labour man and an in- of the House and other members on the loss spiration to the younger as well as to the sustained by the death of '.%r. Philip Collier. older members of the Parliament. He was His wvas a strong personality and his work a man that could be approached by any for the welfare of the State extending over member for information and advice con- so many years will be long remembered. nected with his narliamentar- ditties, and the innirer eriltil be si~s,1rorl of hem" Question put and passed; members stand- directed ailonc! the right lines. flurinTr the ing. 1714 ( COUNCIL.]

MOTION-INCREASE OF RENT (WAR moent they do not live long enough to enjoy RESTRICTIONS) ACT. the privilege of a little ease, available to To Disallow Court Proceeding Regulations. them through superannuation and their pri- 8 vate savinLgs. When this man died, his widow Debate resumed from the 14th October received £2 a week as her share of the pen- on the following motion by Ron. Sir Charles sion, towards which her husband had con- Latharn: tributed for so long. She is residing in a That Regulations Nos. 10, 11, 12 and 15, hostel in Perth and has to pay £2 2s. at week mjade under the increase of Rent (War Re- strictionis) Act, 1939-1948, as published in the for bed and breakfast. Like many others in "'Government Gazette'' of the 3rd September, similar circumstances, she is afraid to leave 1948, and laid on the Table of the House on the hostel for fear that she may not be able the 14th September, 1948, be and are hereby to obtain accommnodation there in the event disallowed. of her desiring to return. Unfortunately her sight is failing, but she HON. A. THOMSON (South-East) [5.1]: has to go out and obtain her mid-day jinc I desire to congratulate Sir Charles Latham evening Meals. If she could obtain posses- on having moved this motion. I listened sion of her borne, to which she is justly en- most carefully to the remarks of the Chief titled, she could easily get someone to keep Secretary on the matter in the hope that he her conmpany there. The property is hers by might be able to suggest some way by which right. It was acquired by self-denial in the we could p)rovide for overcoming the wicked, (lays when her husband anti she travelled unjust and cruel hardship that these regu- from district to district, he on behalf of the lations are inflicting upon a section of the department to which he wvas attached. They people. I refer to old people who, in their had hoped that when he retired they would younger (lays, denied themselves many be able to enjoy the advantage of living in pleasures so that they could provide a borne the home they, had worked so hard to secure. fry themselves in their declining years. By virtue of Government requirements, That house had been let for years owing many men have had to retire from emp~loy- to the fact that the couple had to live in meat at the age of 65 years; and I propose different parts of the State because of the to give two instances iu which grave injus- mlan's vocation. It is still let for 30s. per tire and (lIwnright cruelty have been inflicted week; and out of that the widowv has to pay in such circumstances. Men have been sent water rates, municipal rates, agcnt'4 fees, hither and thither by order of the heads of land tax and for necessary repairs. The re- Government departments hut have cherished sult is thift she is worse off than are many the hope that on retirement they would be people who never attempted t o save in their able to settle down in the homes they bad younger days. To add to the irony of the acquired for themselves by dint of saving position, the 30s. per week she receives a4 and scraping. rent, added to the amount of superannua- One man I know very well had to retire tion she collects, renders her liable to taqxa- on a superannuation penlsioni for which he tion amounting to between £18 and £10 a had subscribed for many years. When he re- year. tired he received a magnificent sum of £C4 There is a definite case of hardship. per week which had to provide for his wife Surely it is a cruel injustice that people who and himitlf. Not being able to obtain pos- have denied themselves many of the enjoy- session of their own home, they had to seek mneits of life in order to provide homes for accommodation in the metropolitan area. themselves in their old age should be re- They had to leave the quarters in which they fused the right to live in them! I can give were residing in the country and to live in another illustration equally badl. A Common- a hostel, the rent they had to pay being more wealth public servant was resident in a coun- than they received by way of superanuua- try area and had to retire at the age of 65. tion. He and his wife are anxious to get into their After having been in retirement for about own home, but so far have been unable to two years, the man died. This seems to be a do so. They are in the same position as the hardship which falls to the lot of many widow of whom I spoke, inasmuch as the people. They- are compelled to contribute to rent they receive from their home, plus their a superannuation fund; and after retire. superannuation, necessitates their paying [19 OCrOBER, 1948.] 171571

income tax. It seems to me a down- to get assistance. They are thus reluc- right injustice to debar people who have tantly compelled to ask the old people to reached the age of 65 from having the right look after themselves. I could take mem.- to occupy their own homes. The couple to berg3 on an inspection, which might be whom 1 have just referred are paying rent ealleS without due notice, to see a number for a home in Katanning, but they get no of these so-called rest homes which, in my credit for that. At the same time, from the opin,'n, are not a credit to previous Gov- rent they receive for their home, they have ernments or to this Government. These to pay rates and taxes. How long are we people, who have striven to help themselves, going to permit the present system to con- as I instanced in two eases, should not be tinuel compelled to fend for themselves in an en- Hon. G. Bennetts: Have you said anything deavour to get into their o-wn homes. It about the upkeep? is definitely cruel, and we should try to help them as much as we can. lon. A. THOMSON: They have to pay the costs involved in maintenance and all I have much pleasure in supporting the the rest of it. I suggest that these regula- mnotion moved by Sir Charles Latham, and tions be not enforced and that the Govern- I urge the Government to adopt my sugges- ment bring dowvn another set which will give tion to frame a regulation which will en- these elderly people an opportunity to get able these people to regain possession of into their own homes.. I amn sure no greater their own homes and, if necessary, stipulate hnrdsh ip could be inflicted upon the people that they shall jive in those homes for a occupying these places than is being imposed certain period. It is dreadful to think that upon the rightful owners. I dare say quite when a person has struggled for many years a number of similar eases to those I have to obitain a home, he is, unable to regain mentioned could be submitted by other )aem- possession of it. In many eases, Much people hers. are living in unfavourable conditions and yet are denied the luxury of their own In all earnestnessa I ask the Chief Secre- homes. tary not to proceed with these regulations. It is within the province of the Government to promulgate one which will provide that EON. E. H. GRAY (West) [5.17]: I old people like those I have mentioned shall listened carefully to what 'Mr. Thomson have justice done to them and that they shiall said on this matter, and I think all mem- have the right to take possession of their bcr: will agree that considerable hardship own homes, irrespective of who may be or- i-- i upoard upon a certain class of people cupying them. It is nll very well to say that becaue of the present regulations. Unfor- there are four or five people living in a house tunately, greater harni would be done if we of that kind and that the owners cau manage agreed to the motion to disallow those re- to get a room in a hostel or somewhere else. gulations. All niembers have been active Only this week I saw the widow to whom in regard to the housing shortage, and I I previously referred, and it is heart-rend- have always been very glad that magis- ing to see the position into which that un- trates have administrative power to stay fortunate woman has drifted. If she could p)roeeedings if necessary; this would not occupy the home which belongs to her, she be the position if the regulations were dis- would be able to enjoy somec comfort and allowed. What the miagistrate must con- have someone who would he only too pleased sider is just what will be the effect of his to share the house with her and to assist action. Will it inflict greater hardship on her. the tenant or the owner? Mr. Thomsnao re- There is no reason why the Government ferred to the matter of taxation. I feel cannot submit a new regulation which will that it is very unjust that people who can- ensure that-justice is done to these old folk. not get into their own homes, and who are One of the greatest problems that many of livingz on superannuation or other small in- the old people are facing today is the fact conies,, should be called upon to pay taxa- that nobody wants them. Nobody wants tior., which would not be the ease if they the poor old woman who has brought up a iver living in their own homes. However, family, simply because the younger families that has nothing to do with the regulations, have children and it is impossible for them and nothing we can do in this House can 1716 1716[COUNCIL]

-alter the position. It is a matter for the The Chief Secretary: The magistrate Commonwealth Government. must consider the hardship of the lessor Hon. A. Thomson: Still it is very hard. as well as of the lessee. Hon. E. H. GRAY: It would be difficult Hon. E. 11. GRAY: That position should to bring in a regulation which would do be altered as quickly as possible, because better than that. 31ly experience is that the it is most unjust. We must remember that, regulations have proved very satisfactory. band as is the position regarding owners The Fremantle district has had some very wbo cannot get into their own homes, it tough cases, involving extreme hardship to ,would be far worse to throw families and both the tenants and the owners, but the little children out on to the streets. Young magistr ate has always done his job satis- -children should receive every consideration, factorily. I therefore hope the motion be- -and the present crowded conditions will be fore the House will not be agreed to. paid for in later years. Where children are crowded in to rooms, they must be adver- On motion by l1on. J. 31. A. Cunininghamt, sely affected in their physical and moral debate adjourned. well-being, and this fact will be a big handi- cap in their later lives. The regulations BILL-BUSH FIRES ACT AMENDMENT. Juve a ingistritte power to stay an eviction Received froni thev Assembly unit, on ,ordecr unt il reasionable accommtodat ion is motion hy lon. Sir Cha rles Lathanm, rind Provided for a tenant who may have little a firs-ttme clhiren. lon. A. Thomson: Freceth' they do BILL-SUPPLY (No. 2), £3,700,000. not try to get other uectnniudation. Stranding Orders Suspension, lon. E. 11. (flAY: Thiey do try. Vr Oni motion by the Chief Set-retarY, uten it is the fault ol' the people who are reiadi'cd: handling tile canse, an1d not thet magistrate. ''hont sio mo ef the Sitaniding Orders bll I think the lHousing Conmmission should 1w ssi'ltdas ii necessary to enable1h thev 11si11 broughlt into the mnatter. to Ile passedl throuigh all1 its stages4 at rime o1n1 lion. A. Thonison : Thei p were no little s~itting. children in the cases I have mentioned. First BRediny. liou. E. 11, '1] AY : As far as the Frv- Bill ret'niveil from the A.,sezm'ly umid rvi! mantle district is concerned, we have had n first time. a very fair deal from the magdistrates, anal secon, I 1wsnal would lie very sorry to seet the d Reaodingy. regulations, disallowed, and eases left to he THE CHIEF' SECRETARY (lion. 11. S. decided nder ordinary legislation. We can- 'IV. Par-ker-MNetropolitan-Subgiiurbani) [5.251 not escape iniflicting an injustice on somle in mloving, the seond reading said: The people hut, when it is all boiled down, the aiithoi'ity which was granted by the Supply magistrate is the proper person to decide, the merit, as between the owner or the ten- Act passed byv Parliant earlier in thle been exhausted. In accord- ant. It may be a ease of the owners being- session hwas now' anvv with the customary practice, it is neces- ol~d people and the tenants a young couple sary for a second Supply Bill to be passed 'with children. I know it is very difficult to carry onl the husiness of the State until but we must consider the welfare of the agreed to by Par- rising generation. I therefore hope that the Estimates have been ,ever~y mnember will se-riously consider the liamnlt. restult of' disallowing the regulations. The first Supply Bill provided X3,000,000 from Consolidated Revenute, £,500,000 from Hon. A. Thomson: Would you be in fav- £300,000 from Ad- 4Our of asking the Government to promul- General Loan Fund, and vance to Treasurer, a total of L.3,B800,000. gate a regulation that would assist old The amount of Supply now required is; people in poor circumstances to get into £3,700,000 made lip of £3,000,000 from Con- their own homes? solid ated Revenue and £700,000 from Gren- I-on. E. IT. GRAY: I think the magistrate orad Loan Fund. Full] details of all the ithe best man to consider that. amounts will he explained by the Premier in [19 OerouFn. 1948.] 1717 the delivery of his Budget Speech in another What do we findI The Government of the place, but it is customary to put through a day decided to refer tbe matter to the Rail- Bill such as this one to carry on pending way Advisory Board. That was quite con- the passing of the Estimates. trary to the recommendation of the Select Expenditure for the three months endedl Committee. Then we find that a former tie :30th September, for which Supply hao Premier, Hon. F. J. S. Wise, was respon- already been, granted was as follows:- sible for creating the Railway Advisory Board-quite contrary to the recommenda- From Consolidated Revenue 3,686,579 tions of the Select Committee. Frequently From General Loan Fund 746,179 the statement is made that select committees Expenditure under special Acts 1,256,914 do not accomplish very much. It seems to inc there is little hope of accomplishing The expenditure uinder special Acts includes anything when the Premier of the dlay is ain amount of £1,036,312 for interest and, prepared * act entirely' contrary to thd .,inking fund. The total expenditure from recommendation of a select committee. Consolidated Revenue Fund has, therefore, been £C1,943,49:3. The revenue collected dur- Or. perusing the replies to the question,% in~g the same period of three months was I asked today, I find that three members of' £C4,260,880. The accumulated deficit for the advisory board are Government officers the period is £683,113, and the accumulated -31r. T. S. Parry, the Surveyor Goiters', deficit for the same period of 1947 was Mr. C. K. Baron-hlay, Under Seeret iry for £352.401. 1 move- Agricultuic and 31r. W. A. McCullough, That the Bill fie now rend a second time. Acting Chief Civil Engineer, WA.G.,- the fourth member being Mr. 1). Brisbane. HON. A. THOMSON (South-East) C eneral Mlanager, Midlland Railway Com- rs.27]: 1 wish to take this opportunity of p'any. The Wise Government accepted the, raising a protpst against an an-tion of the reconmmendations fivroislici in the Cl-app Ye. late GIovirnmeat. I think I ala in order poirt, but a majority of the mnembiers of this because I am dealing with a matter of $1- house took strong exceptioin to that and ap nanive. In 1945 this House, in its wisdom, preela tedl the need for at least careful in- snAw fit to appoint a Sele-t Committee to quirie to be made. They believed that couse. inquire into the standar6 iation of the rail- shouldl have been adopted in accordance with way gang(-, Kalgoorlie to Fremiantle. Aftor the S;elevt Committee's recomnmendation. taking exhaustive and valuable evidence, the nfip tragedy of government today is that Select Cammnittee made the following rec-om- i'epiartmiita olliCers aire running the, inendation- cotoArv-not parliament. I feel strongly That a eoniplete inve~tigntioii he made of the territory embraced in the area running in on the n:atter, I regret having to attack the .a south-westerly direction from a suitable point former PreieI r of this State during bis iii the vicinity of Southern Cross to the Corni- absence f'wni Western Australia, but I re- gin dlistrict and thence westerly in tile direv- gardl the action taken as an insult to those tion of a developmental railway route recoin- inelided by a fonner Engineer-in-Chief, Mr. wvho sat or the Select Committee and to the Stileman, or along any other route found suit- witresses who furnished valuable informsa- able1 to Fremntle. Such inivestigation to pro- tion. I maintain, with all due respect, ceed simultaneously, if possible, wit), the sur- vey operations now in progress on the route irrespective of what the recommendations of parallel to the existing 3f t. Oin, line between the. Railway Advisory Hoard may be, that Kalgoorlie and Frtmantle, and be carried out the whole situation requires further investi- l'y an independent railway construction en- gation. All the evidence submitted to the gineer. SelEct Committee indicated that the water I think that recommendation has been available in the Avon Valley would be of flouted, and I therefore asked the following much more value to the State than would be (1uest ion- the Trans. line if deviated along that route (1) Why was the recommendation of the in such a way as to interfere with the Select Committee ignored? potential sorurce of water supplies there. (2) Who was responsible for the reconstruce- tion of the Railway Advisory Board? Hon. G. Fraser: Did not the recommendia- (3) Who are the members of this board,' and tion of the Select Committee contain the will the Minister tablit the report of the board? word5 '"if possible"? ins8 ICOU'NCIL]1

Hon. A. THOMSON: Recommendation tunity I will have, I have done so in jus- No. 5 included the words-- tiee to those who sat on the Select Committee Such investigation to proceed sinmultaaeously, and devoted hours of their time to the study if possible, with the survey operations now in of the problem and to the witnesses who progress on the route parallel to the existing gave valuable information. It is unfair that 3ft. Gin, line between Kalgoorlie and Pre- such a body of men should have their viewe mantle, and he carried out by an independent railway construction engineer. flouted. Wywere not the services of an 'indepen- HON. E. E. GRAY (West) [5.37]: It is dent railway construction engineer oh- quite unusual for a member to attack a pre- tained.) I am sure they could have been. vious Government respecting something that On the other hand, the Government of the happened three years ago-in 1945. 4day appointed a railway advisory board. In pilain English, I would say At when the Hon. A. Thomson: The action of the Gov- (loverument adopted that policy and ap- ernment was wrong. pointed a board on which there were three lon. E. H. GRAY: That the hon. mem- Government. officials, the cards were immedi- ber should have been allowed to do so baN ately stacked against the implementation of meant, in my opinion, stretching the Stand- that particular recommendation of the Sel- ing OrdeN. very considerably. I certainly ret Committee, chiallenge, M1r, Thomson to have the mutter There is another aspect that requires con- openly debated. There is a very effective siuleration. Already over £1,000,000 has been nswer to his eontenitions. The findliug, of spent on the construction of the new Royal the Select Committee could he availed of by Perth Hospital. Replies to questions I have the Railway Advisory Board, so the time oif put to the Minister, indicate that even at the committee was not wasted. All the evi- this stage the Public Works Department is dence that was taken can be perused. not in a position to say definitely how much Hon. A. Thomson: We are prepared to more land will be resumed and what the ulti- debate the matter. mate cost of the hospital buildings will be, That is an example of the manner in which Hon. E. H. GRAY: Final responsibility the financial stability of the State is being rests upon the Government to say whether undermined. Then again the situation of the or not it will accept the recommendations of Perth Railway Station is bound up with the any select committee that may he appointed extensioi of the Royal Perth Hospital. I by this House or by another place. I pro- voice my emphatic protest against the ac- test against the tactics adopted by Mr. tions of the former Premier and his Labour Thomson because no member is given an Government in acting contrary to the recoin- opportunity, without inconveniencing the mnudntions of the Select Committee. I Chief Secretary, to proffer an adequate would indeed be sorry if the present Gov- reply at this stage. ernmient were to act in a similar manner if Hon. A. Thomson: I was in the same a select committee were to submit recommen- position. dations to it. Nion, E. H. GRAY: Mr. Thomson shbould I shall not oppose the Supply Bill as I be more caref ul in the statements he makes. realise it is essential for the Government to I am sure an effective reply could be made hiave the money requested, Probably most of to his arguments and he would be made to it has already been spent. If we can antici- appear very foolish in this Chamber. pate the delivery of the Budget, the Pre- Question put and passed. mier contemplates a deficit of £200,000. Although this House is not supposed to Bill read a second time, interfere with money Bills, the duty devolves upon members carefully to serutinise expen- In Committee, etc. diture. Actions such as those I have referred Bill passed through Committee without to clearly demonstrate why the finances of debate, reported without amendment sand the State have drifted as they have. I offer the report adopted. no apolog-y for raising this matter at the present stage because it is the only oppor- Bill read a third time and passed. [19 OCTOBER, 1948.]

BILLS (2)-THIRD READING. Nuch marriage certificate and duly register 1. Health Act Amendment. the copy so entered." Returned to the Assembly with amend- Tho HONORARY MINNISTER FOR ments. AGRICULTURE: This amendment was in- serted at the request of the Registrar Gen- 2. State Housing Act Amendment. eral. It really confirms the present pro- Passed. cedure and brings the provision into line with a similar one in the Regis-tration of BILLr-MARRIAGE ACT AMWENDMENT. Births, Deaths and Marriages Bill. Assembly's Amendments. Hon. Sir Charles Latham: Does not the Schedule of four amendmnents made by Registrar General now enter at copy of the marriage certificate in the register book?9 the Assembly now considered. The. HONORARY MINISTER FOR In Committee. AGRICULTURE: Apparently he does not. ion. J. A. Dimmitt in the Chair; the This amendment will snake the matter quite Honorary Minister for~ Agriculture in charge clear. I mtove- of the Rill. That the amendment be agreed to. No. I. Clause 4-Add to snbcladse (2) the Question put and passed;, the Assemably's. fo]Iowing words :-"provilcd that the Court amendment agreed to. shall not entertain any such application where the consent to the marriage has been Resolutions reported: the report adopted refused by both parents when such parents and a message accordingly returned to the are living together." Assembly. The HONORARY MIX ISTER FOR AGRICULTURE: The Assembly's amend- BILL-REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, nient is reasonable and it has the approval DEATHS AND MARRIAGES ACT of the Registrar General. I move- AMENDMENT. That the amendment be agreed to. Assembly's Amendments. Question put and passed; the Assembly's Schedule of three ameadment6 made, by amendment agreed to. the Assenibly now considered. No. 2. Clause 4--Subelause (4) :-to add tho following words :-The jurisdiction of In Committee. the Court shall be exercised in Chambers." lion. -f. A. Dimmitt in the Chair; the The HONORARY MNINISTER FOR IfonC-ralyfMinister for Agriculture in charge AGIRICULTURE: It is desirable that an of the Bill. appeal should be heard in Chambers and not No. 1. Clause 7-Page 2, line 30 :-In- in open court. I move-- sert after the word "adopted" the word-$ That the amendment be agreed to. "lor is an illegitimate child." Question put and passed; the Assembly's The HONORARY MINISTER FO'11 amendment agreed to. AGRICULTURE: I hope the Committee No. 3. Clause 5--Proposed New Section will agree to the amendment. A person can- 11 :-In line 15 of the clause, delete the not now search the registfer to ascertain par- word "another" and insert in lieu thereof ticulars of an adapted child and it is but the wards "'the second." fair that there should be a similar restric- tion with regard to an illegitimate child. T The HONORARY 'MINISTER FOR mfoveh AGRICULTURE: This amendment makes That the amendment be agreed to. the clause clearer. I move-- H1on. A. THOMSON: That the amendment be agreed to. Would the M1inis- ter please explain why the words "illegiti- Question put and passed; the Assembly's mate child" have been inserted9 I think amendment agreed to, it advisable that those words should nret No. 4. Clause 5-At the end of the clause app ear in the register. add the words "who shall enter in the Mar- 11o)n. J. M. A. Cunningham: I suggest riage Register Book kept by himt a copy of "CI nuptial.'' 1720 1720COUNCIL.]

Hon. A. THOMSON: It is not my wish Hon. Sir Charles Latham: The -child is that any child should he branded with il- registered in someone's name. legitimacy. The CHIEF SECRETARY: Bec-au,,e The HONORARY M1INISTER, FOR someone has said that Mary Jones has given AGRIClULTURE: The word 'illegitimate" birth to a child, does not mean that it is would appear in the register now. This evidence that 'Mary Jones, the wife of Wil- amendment is merely designed to prevent 11am Jones, is the mother. If that were po- the making of a search. Some busybody sible, it would be easy to palm off a false might want to find out whether a neigh- certificate. .bour's adopted child was illegitimate. lion. Sir Charles Latham: I have seen l1on. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: 1 plenty of birth certificates, but I do not understand that the child of an unmarried follow you. mother is registered in the mother's name and that there is no reference to illegiti- The CHIEF SECRETARY: A birth cer- many in the register. It may be necessary tifleate is not evidence of the adultery of for a husband to obtain evidence of uni- thme mother mentioned in it. It is necessary faithfulness on the part of his wife and to go a good deal further than that. All it frequently happens that a birth certiti- thiut is in the register is what someone told eute is p~rodlucedl to a court to prove an the registrar. illegitimate birth. We should not deprive R~on. Sir Charles Latham:- There may not an aggni'veil husband or an aggrieved wife be an illegitimate child. -of the right to obtain such proof to prio- $iiee lwtfore a judge. I hope that angle The CHIEF SECRETARY: Quite true. bas been considered. There might not be a child at all. The H[ONORARtY MINISTER FOR lon. Sir CHARLES LATHA.M: I can- AG1RICULTU'REP: No search of the register not follow the Chief Secretary, because the can he made without the Registrar Glen- Registrar General sets, out on n copy of a vriti' consent. An aggrieved husband would birth certificate, exactly what appears in no doubt be permitted to swareh the regk-ter the register. I dio not mind what happens if he put up a good case to the Registrar in respect to this, bat we should not put General. anything into an Act of Parliament to de- lion. Sir Charles Latham: I would like pivie a peison of his legal rights. I was Mr. Parker to inform the Committee on not able to follow the Chief Secretary when that point. he said there might not even be a hirth. The Chief Secretary: Hare you not heard The HONORARY 'MINISTER FORl of evilly-disposed people? AGRICULTURE: Has the hon. member in mindr a ease of divorce? lion. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: 'No. We lion. Sir Charles Latham: Yes. have to rely on the Registrar General. The hO0NORARY 'MINISTER FORl The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: AGRICU'LTURE: I believe the Registrar He is a responsible official. General would, in those circumstances, give Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHA'M: Yes, Lis consent to a search of the register. but there are many reasons why a person lHon. 01, Fraser: He his the power to do should he able to get a certificate. I know of a man who dlied and left a considerable 'The HONORARY MINISTER FOR sum of money to his illegitimate son. The .AGRIcuLTUIIE: Yes. man was 47 years of age when the father died. The CHIEF SECRETARY: I would point out that an illegitimate child is not The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: necessarily registered by its mother. It is Do you think the Registrar General would -rgistered by an informant, and what the refuse in a case like that?7 informant states on the application to re- Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: He xgister would not be accepted as evidence might say he was doubtful as to whether by a court. the child was illegitimate. [1O OCrOBR, 1P48.1 121721

laon. W. JIIMANN: The amendment seems legilimiate. It might simply show that it to provide protection in the ease of people was the child of John Jones and Miss so who have not good reasons for getting par- and so, spinster. ticulars. which they would broadcast to the The Chief Secretary: It does not always detriment of some child. mention the father. The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: Eon. Sir Charles Latham: Or use the That is the object of it. word "spinster." Hon. W. J. MANN: In the ease men- The HONORARY MINISTER FOIR tioned 1)v Sir Charles Lathami, it is almost AGRICULTURE: It might. If the Regis- certain that the Registrar General would trar General were satisfied. that the person exercise his discr-etion, otherwise he would concerned was illegitimate, he would say be doing a disservice to the person con- to the person who wanted to make the cerned. Like other members, I do not like sea--eh, ''You cannot have a look.'' In an the word ''illegitimate.'' Perhaps we instance such as that quoted by Sir Charles could use, the expression ' ex-nuptjal'" or Lathamn, he would grant permission. "born out of wedlock,'' but they mean the Hon. A. THOMNSON: I am wondering if same thiing-. we are establishing a new principle by in- Hon. Sir Charles Latham: The word sering the word ''illegitimate" in the. "gillegitimate" is niot used in the -register. measure. lion. Sir Charles Lathamn: 7n the register; The CHIEF SECRETARY: Adoptions are made through a judge, and no-one can where it never occurs. go to the Supremie Court and search adop- The Chief Secretary: This does not mean tion papers without an order of the judge. that it will go into the register. Very good reason must be shown in order lion. A. THOMSON: I Amn afraid this to see the adoption papers. will he the -means of creating unhappiness. Hon. Sir Charles Lathanm: The certifi- to some people. cates are destroyed or expunged once the The Chief Secretary: It is to avoid uow- adoption is complete. happiness. The CHIEF SECRETARY: The Regis- Hon. A. THOMSON: As far as I know trar General is notified of the adoption the wVord "illegitimate'' does not appear when it is complete. If a person desires to in the parent Act. prove that a mother has been unfaithful, The Chief Secretary: flow are you going he sees, by the register who was Present atl to Iescribe a child who is not legitimate? the birth, and lie calls that person to give The CHAIRMAN: order! Members will evidence to the effect that so and so g-Ave pleasge address the Chair and not conduct birth to a child on such and such a date. a cross-firing conversation. The certificate itself does not mean a thing. Hon. A. THOMSON: The average child Tt is the direct evidence of a person who who is adopted is born out of wedlock. was present at the birth that counts. This The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: amendment is only to stop inquisitive people No. from going along and making searches. Any person can go to the Registrar General's Hon. A. THOMSON: if the word "illegi- timate" had appeared in the Act, office to make a search at any time, but I would not feel this prevents him from making one in re- *so strongly about it. gard to illegitimate children. i-ron. Sir CHARLES LATHAMf: I do not think the word "illegitimate'' is connected R~on. W. J. MANN: 'Under the parent with the adopted child. If I uranted to Art, anyone can demand information con- Make a search, I would not tell the officer cerning, an illegitimate person. The Bill that I wished to see if someone's child was merely covers an adopted person. There- illeg-itimate, but that I wanted to make A fore, in rezard to an illegitimate child, Sec- Search in regard to a child horn on a cnr tion 16 of the Act would prevail. tamn date at a certain place. In such a cn-e, The HONORARY MINYISTER FOR is it the official's PlAce to determine whether AGRICULTURE: The register would not the child is illegitimiate, or would he bond necessarily specify that the child was il- me the register? 1722 [COUNCIL.]

The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: The HONORARY MINISTER FOR It is his responsibility to find out whether AGRICULTURE: The Registrar General the child is illegitimate. considered that the original provision was Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: In the not suflicient and this amendment was made parent Act there is no reference to illegiti- by the Legislative Assembly at his request. macy, but now we are introducing the word. He felt that the original wording was not clear enough. Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m. Hon. Sir Charles tatham: Was not the Bill submitted to him hefore it was brought Question put and passed; the Assembly's down? amendment agreed to. The HONORARY MINISTER FOR No. 2. Clause 8- AGRICULTURE: Yes. Add to the end of the clause the follow- II on. Sir Charles Lathain: Did be change ing words :-"or the Registrar General, on his mind V receiving a request in writing under the The HO'NORARY 'MINISTER FOR hands of the intended parties to the mar- AGRICULTURE: Even members of Parlia- riage may at his discretion register the myent may see, as they go along, that cer- naime of a person designated by him who tain anmendment4 are desirable. T he mean- shall be authorised to celebrate Such mar- ing (it the provision is exactly the same riage according to the form applicable in as it was Previously, but the wording now the ease of a marriage celebrated by a Di- mnake-; it clearer. I move- trict Registrar." That the amendment be agreedl to. The HONORARY MINISTER FOR Question put and passed; the Assembly's p AGRICULTURE: I hope the Committee amendment agreed to. will agree to this amendment. The original Resolutions reported, the report adopted provision set out that any person coufld, and a message accordingly returned to the with the consent of the Reg-istrar General, Assembly. perform aL marriage, following a request hr a religions denomination. The As- BILL-BUILDERS' REGISTRATION senmbly's amendment provides that the con- ACT AMENDMENT. tracting parties may make a request for a marriage similar to that carried out br a In Committee. district registrar, leaving the decision s4till Resumed from the 14bh October. Hon. J. with the- Registrar General. I move- A, Dimmitt i'n the Chair; 'the H1onorary That the amendment be agreed to. Minister for Agriculture in charge of the Bill. Question put and passed; the Assembly's amendment agreed to. The CHAIRMAN: Progress was reported after Clause 2 had been agreed to, No. a. Clause 17- Clause 3-Amendment of Section 4: Add a new subelause to stand as sub- clause (d), as follows:- Hon. G. FRASER: I move an amend- met- (d) Deleting subsection (c) and sub- That in line 4 of paragraph (a) the word stituting the following:- "Isix'' be struck out with a view to inserting (c) Whenever the marriage is the word ''eight'' in lieu. celebrated by a District The opposition shown to this proposed Registrar, the second amendment during the second reading de- copy of such register bate was based on the argument that £400 form shall be retained in 1939 was equal to £600 today. I do not by the District Regis- know how that comparison -was arrived at, trar as a record of such because home building costs have risen by marriage, and the third over 100 per cent. since 1939. 1 have exam- copy shall be trans- ined the graphs of building costs from 1912 mitted by him to the onwards, and I find that £.100 in 1912 Registrar General. lumped to £140 in 1939, and to just under [19 Oaona, 1948.] 172312

£300 in 1948. flaring tbe period from 1939 amount which the unregistered builder, that to July, 1948, building costs increased from is, ..bc man unqualified to build- £140 to just under £300, an increase of more Ron. G. Fraser: That is not so, than 100 per cent. Eon. Sir Charles Latham: That may not I had those figures in mind when I placed be allowed, my amendment on the notice paper. All that is sought by the amendment is to keep the Eon. L. CRAIG: Members are all yelling 1948 measure in line with what was agreed that that may not he so, bat the intention to when the legislation was introduced in of the Act was to improve. the standard of 1938, 1Irealise that certain house fittings are housing in W'estern Australia- dearer now than they were in 1039 and I Hon. ESir Charles Latham: That is so, am allowing for an increase to cover expen- Hon. L. CRAIG: -namely, small houses. diture of that kind, but I do not understund H1on. E. H. Gray: And to protect the how it can be orgued that there has teen people. an increase of only 50 per cent. in the cost of building. The erection of a weather-board- Elon. L. CRAIG: It was the intention of asbestos house, under the Workers' Homes the Labour Government- Board in 1939, involved an expenditure of Hion. 0. Fraser: It was not a Govern- slightly over £500. It was 1942 before the ment Bill; it was a private memnber's Bill. cost of a similar house reached above the £600O mark. The same cottage would have Rion. L, CRAIG: It was heartily sup)- ported by the cost £1,200 in July of this year. The graphs Labour G4overnment, as the hon. member knows, andl was to of building costs through thos;e years indi- improve cate an increase of approximately 100 per the standard of housing of the working cent. for that period. The purpose of the people. People wvho were able to buildl ameitnicnt is to maintain the same ratio of houses were accepted and registered. All exemption for the unregistered builder as unregistered builders were excluded. That existed when the measure -was first intro- was the intention of the Builders' Registra- duced. tior At-to improve the standard; in other words, to confine the building- of good houses, lon. A. THOMSON: I ani 'tot objecting to people who knew the g-ame to the word -six," be tiuck out, hot I and the build- ing- of garages, le-an-tos, would liket muembers to consider increasing and and woodshetl.s to 1hose who aire not so well trained. Now the amount which may be substituted at a it is; proposed to lift the restriction to £800 later period. Otie of the reasions; for my re- and .1r. Thomson is asking for the limit to qjuest is that onl the 14th October the present be £1,000, thereby stultifying the whole in- limit oil wuoden hou~es, which might be teution of the Act. It is the last thing I erected by unregistered builders was sought would expect, and is a very to he raised to £1000 by a deputation front foolish move. We are now~ the Housing and Rehabilitation Committee building houses on a better basis than ever before. of the Returned Soldiers' League, which waited on the 'Minister for Works. The Hon. WV.R, Hall: You have a close prv- Minister stated that the Builders' Registra- serve. tion Act Amendment Bill -which he intro- Hon. L. CRAIG: Not necessarily. I have duced was now before the Legislative Coun- late]13' been around the homes built under cil and that further amendments to the Bill the housing schemes right through all the at this stage were beyond his intervention. districts, and I mnst say they are a credit I said I approved of the amount that Mr. to those concerned. They are far better Fraser had mentioned in his second reading than the housineR for working people before speech, but I preferred a large amount. The the war. cheapest house that can he built. today, costs lion. Sir Charles Latham: I will take you over £1,200, and there is every indication to York and show you somet. that prices will rise still further. Therefore, as we are amending the Bill, I would like lion. L, CRAIG: And they were prob- the Committee seriously to eonsider increas- ably put up by a man who was not a. re- ingy the amount to £1,000. gistered builder, Hon. L. CRAIG: I am rather surprised lion. Sir Charles Latham.- I know th'ey to hear Mr. Fraser wanting to increase the were pat up by the Government, so do not 1724 1124[COUNCIL.]

pretend you know, because you have not ing to put up a house."? Hle has only to fill been there. in a form. There is plenty of work for un- Hlon. La. CRAIG: It is the houses that registered builders today; but they cannot Mr. Fraser has mentioned that I aim quoting put up a modern dwelling unless they pass- now. the necessary examination. It would he a4 mistake, in lifting the limit from £400 to lion. G. Fraser: You can cheek on them; £C600, to allow them to do all the work they I will guarantee them. were doing before. lion. L. CRAIG: They are on higher- Hon. G. Fraser: Where can you get a poriced lanC! and the houses today are all house for L8003 tile-roofed. Hon, L. CRAIG: It all depends what lIon. Sir Charles Latham: They arc not. so*? of house one requires. Some tire roofed with asbestos sheeting. Hon. G, Fraser: It does not. lion. L. CRAIG: Ninety per cent,' of them have tiled roofs, and they have grano- lion. L. CRAIG : Of course it does. We lithie piaths. can build for less than that up North. lion. G. Fraser: They did in 19:39. lion. G. Fraser: Well, we cannot build them down South. lion. L. CRAIG: Perhaps one or two dlid. The point I wish to make is the houses lion. L. CRAIG: They are not the tyr~c have enamelled baths. that the bon. member wants. le wants gold- lion. G. Fraser: Some of them did then. mounted taps 0o] the bath, lion. Sir Charles Latham: Ile thinks The CHAIRMAN: Order! that brass is gold-mounted. lIon, L. CRAIG: I am trying to point out that the standard of a working man's lion. La. CRAIG: We are making pro- house today is far better than before. gress with our housing. Onr Commonwealth- State and State Housing scheme houses are lion. G. Fraser: I ('an show you some a credit to those eoncerncd. I hope the Com- built in 1939 that will cause you to change. mnittee w~ill not agree to the increase, your Opinion, lion. La.CRAIG: I understand some splen- lon. 0. FRASER: I would like the hion. did honses were built in Florcat Park before member to show me a house that can hp the war, but they were the exceptions to the built for £800. rule. lion. La. Craig: I will take you up to may lion. W. J, M1ann: No, I will show you station. ,ome that are not in Floreat Park. Hon. G. FRASER: I am talking aboot lon. L. CRAIG: It would be a retro- the metropolitan area, and the Act operates grade step to allow people who fire uin- only in the metropolitan area. All I am trainedl to build higher-priced houses. All seeking by the amendment is to place the people at the time Of the pas~sing of the Act amount fixed in the Act on the same footing who were competent builders have been reg- as it was in 1939. istered, and those -who -were not registered Hon. L. Craig: This will allow them to had not built houses previously and were build expansible houses. unqualified. Hion. 0. FRASER: This will not allow lion. A. Thomson: That is not correct. them to build M1eNess cottages. lion. L. CRAIG: Mostly. lion. L. Craig: Yes, it will. lion. A. Thomson: Nu, it is not corret. lon. G. FRASER: I am hoping it will lion, Sir Charles Latham: What about allow thein to bliil MeNess Cottages bemu111se the man who comes from the E'astern States? there arc none being built today. Admittedly, there is no money in the IfeNess Trust; but lion. L. CRAIG: He ean be registered. when the tru9i !es did have the money, ten- lion. Sir Charles Latham: He can be, ders for sueh houses Were up to £900 and but he is not. £950. A M.%e~es cottage cannot be compared Hon. L, CRAIG: Well, he should be. with the ordinary worker's home which cost Why should he blow in and say, "I am go- £1,200 in July of this; year. [19 OcToBER, 1948.] 1725

lion. L. Craig: Expansible huses are any class of work, and that is where the costing £800. boa:-d has fallen down on its job. Let us lion. G. FRASER: Expansible houses at preserve the ratio of the amount fixed when the vry minimum would be seven or eight the original legislation was passed. squares, and I defy the bon. member to get Bon. J. Ml. A. CUNNINGHAM: I agree a square for less than £100 or £105. So even with the suggestion that there should be on the self-help scheme under the State three grades. Housing Commission, which will allow seven squares for a two-unit family, it is impos- Tnqe CHAIRMIfAN: The hon. member must .ible to lbuild even an expansible home. All discuss the amendment and not grades. the expansible homes will take about nine Hon. J. M1. A. CUNNINGHAMT: I can to ten squares. speak with some knowledge of building. A lion. L. Craig: I know wvhat the price is; home can he built for £600 provided no al- I have inquired. lowance is mde for wages. I think the idea is to permit a man to have a home lion. G. FRASER: So have 1, and I erected within that figure by an unregis- have been checking it down through the tered builder. years. I have not ju~t rushed in! Mly amend- ment will not allow any unregistered builder Hon. G. Fraser: That would include to come in andl build a home, but I do not wvages. want the other work reserved for the unreg- lion. J. 'M. A. Ct'X-NINGHAM: I feel dis- i.,tered builder; that is, the wvork outlined by posed to support an increase to £800. Mr. Craig. lie will be debarred from getting lion. Sir CHARLES LATHA}'a: I dis- on to the £600 limit. All registred builders agree with Mir. Craig. A builder from the have been too busy to take on unregistered Eastern States mnight be fully qualified to work. I defy any member to prove my fig- be registered, but might not desire to be ure,, wrong. registered. Section 10 prescribes that am, lion. I., Craig: They) are 100 per cent. applicant for registration shall be 21 years w rong. of age, of good charnefer, shall have com- pleted the prescribed Hon. G. FRASER: They are not. I will course of training and take the hon. member out tomorrow and shall pass the prescribed examination. show him a graph which proves the absolute Bon. L. Craig: It means that the hoard truth of my statements and the figures whig6 could register a man from the East. are from £1,200 upwards today. lion. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: It means lion. L. Craig: They are different houses. what I have stated. I know a qualified man wvho refuses to become registered. 'My con- Hon. 0. FRASER: Of course they are cerr is that we are not getting enough different houses. I repeat that the hon. houses built and we ought to put no obstacle member could not get a house built in the in the way of increasinz the number. About metropolitan area today for £800. When 18 months ago a house, part weather-board he suggests that by my amendment I will and part asbestos, with a tile roof, cost be lowering the standard of house-building, £1,150, exclusive of the land, whereas the it is all rot. Some of our best tradesmen are cost now is £1,'275. I want to see the limit prepared to do renovation and maintenance raised to £1,000 in order to encourage build- work, ;mnd nil I am asking is that they be ing. As plans have to be approved by the permitted to do it. They are not prepared local authority, there is ample protection. to study for 12 months and sit for an A statement has been made in the Press examination in order to undertake large that S-foot walls are healthier than 10-foot lbuildings. Dozens of men who are content walls, but I for one cannot accept that to do the smaller type of work could pass statement. I could show Mr. Craig a place any examination in that sort of work. in York erected by a registered builder at Hon. A. Thomson: Practical men. a cost of £1,200 that is aa absolute dis- lion. GI. FRASER: Yes, men who have grace. been in the trade for years. At present, Hon. E. H. GRAY: I oppose the amend- however, the board expects any builder ment. The Act was brought into existence seeking registration to be able to undertake because of the unsatisfactory work done in I 72IC-OUNC ry ILC 1.-.i 11 . J .1 - I P." 1- 1726 [COUNCIL.,J

the metropolitan area after World War I. years, I should be in a position to know Examples of this inferior work way be seen. what I am talking about. The introduction in the suburbs today. Of the beneficial of this Bill was a very wise step, but it effect of this law, we have evidence in the does not go far enough. When the measure class of homes erected in recent years. The was first before us Mr. Wood, w~ho was not amendment would be dangerous as it would a Minister then, was in favour of the cut away the foundations of the Act. To amount being £E750; but now we find that do this would be very foolish because the there is a desire to create a close preserve, legislation has proved successful. I am in- while the country is starving for homes. rned. that tradesmen in the industry are Many uinregistered builders, I goarantee, opposed to Mr. Fraser's amendment. would be able to erect houses as good as Hon. G. Fraser: That is not so. those put up by registered builders. Why Hon. E. H1. GRAY: Well, it is the in- was the Act brought into existence? formation supplied to ine. Allegedly to prevent men with no experience from building homes. But it was nothing The 'HONORARY 3UN STER, YOR of the soart. It was introduced to guaranted * AGRICULTFURE: I thought members would the financial stability of those who were en- welcome the Bill. Surely an increase of gaged in the industry, as merchants were * 50 per cent. is a step in the right direction!I losing a certain amount of money because Hon. Sir Charles Latham: But not big some of the men undertook the jobs too enough. cheaply. Registered builders do the same thing. The HONORARY -MINISTER FOR Hon. H. Tuekey: How AGRICULTURE: There was a suggestion in many of those * another place that the amount be £525. men passied examinations? Why should not these builders pass an ex- Hon. A. THOMSON: None of them. amination I When the Act was brought in, they xvera exempted. 31r. Fraser and I are not asking Hlon. Sir Charles Lathamn: Why should that the examinations should he interfered not we all pass an examination? with. The figures quoted by Mr. Fraser are * The HONORARY 'MINISTER FOR irrefutable. As a matter of fact, they were, AGRICU'LTURE: I did; I went before my if anybting-, on the low side. It is not pea- electors and they approved of me. If a 'Able to obtain a timber and asbestos home * worker required a house at a cost of £1,500, with ceilite inside nod tiles. or asliestos roof- he could employ a registered builder. One ing- for anything like £E1,000. would have expected 'Mr. Fraser to be Hon. VT.Fraser: A little over £1,200. amongst the first to advocate that a -worker should he able to get a well-constructed lion. A. THOMSON: Well over £1,200. house. In pvropos;ing an increase from C4t00 Brick homes run into £1,400. So this will to £E00. we are going far enough. not affect registeredl builders. The eretion of public buildings is being helrd lip in lon. A. THOMSON: I am amazed at the country districts. There fire hospitals and -Minister's remarks, and more than amazed schbools for which the Government cannot at the remarks, of 'Mr. Craig. get tenders Thei work cannot he done be- Hon. L. Craig: We are all amazed at one cause- there are not suffic-ient mcii avaqilable. * another. I w-ill guarantee that a carpenter, with the help of a strong boy, would lie cuiiable of Hon. A. TH11OMSN: I never heard 'Mr. erectinz these buildinc-s of wvoodl and asbestos4 Craig put up a more foolish argument than in any part of the State and he would have he advanced tonight. no need to pass- any examination, because he Hon. Sir Charles Latham: He has to would be a tradesm-an who knew his job. It support the Government, whether it is -right has, been said by members, that they are sur- or wrong. pirised at the attitude of some of us; that Hon. A. THOMSON: I challeng-e M-Nr. they thought we would welcomne the 'Bill. Gray and Mr. Craig and those who say that We do, but we want to improve it as a re- houses built prior to the paqsing- of the Act sult of our practical inside knowledge. were inferior to those bpinZ built today. Hav- Hon. Sir Charles Latham: And provide ing been engaged in the industry for over 50 homes at the same time. [19 OCTOBtER, 10.45.]

Hon, A. THOMSON: That is the jut- shall get notbing. Suppose we attempt to portant thing. Unfortunately the Minister insert £1,000 as thle figure! Do members thinks that because the Bill has been in- think we will get away with that! troduced he must not dot an "i' or cross a Hon. Sir Charles Latham: We may get 11t,,, £800 inserted. The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: The HONORARY MINISTER FOR That is nonsense! I agreed to amendments AGRICULTURE: Personally I do not that came from another place tonight.' I think so. It is a matter of opinion. Surely I have repeatedly agreed to amendment in 5 have a right to an opinion without having this Committee. a member accuse me of not being prepared Hon. A. THOMSON: Those of us -who to improve anything! honestly be-lieve the Bill can be improved Hon. A. Thomson: So long as you allow in the interests of housing are proposing us to have our opinion, it is all right. means whereby more structures can be erected. Tt will not affect me personally be- The HONORARY MJUNISTER FOR cause 1 hve finished with building opera- AGRICULTURE: I have no objection to tions; but I know conditions aad what can that at alt. Only last Thursday I reported be done. It is absurd for members to say progress so that we could have a further that the amount must not be increased. discussion. I do not like having this sort of Everything has gone up in price. I would accusation made. I hope the Bill will he prefer the amount to be £1,000, but I ani aecetted as it stands. I warn members that prepared to accept Mr. Fraser's amendment. they may not get even the £600. The Chief Secretary: Why limit it to Hon. H1. TUCICEY: I can remember £C1,000?. when this legislation was first introduced. It was the opinion of a number of people Hon. A. THOMSON: Because if the that the design was to create amount is exceeded, it wilt be brought up a close preserve. There -was criticism to the level at which a registered builder about jerry-building, and I think that the issue was 4omewhat is able to build. clouded with the propaganda. At that time The Chief Secretary: Why could not an we had a number of small builders throug-h- unregistered budlder erect a house for more out inay district who could do very good than £1,000 ' work, equal to that of tradesmen in the met- Hon. A. THOMSON: if an unregistered ropolitan area. I could show members a builder with a boy or a mate undertakes to house in the country which cost £1,150 and build a house, the pair are working for was erected by a qualified tradesman, but themselves and thererore very much miore which I think is one of the worst constructed work is don,. and they labour for longer houses, I have ever seen. There was no hours. Tht, registered builder's men work architeet on the job to keep the work up to only a 40-hour week. I hope the amend- standard. ment will he agreed to. A certain amount of that sort of thing is, in ray opinion, going on today. I have heard The HIONORARY MINISTER FOR complaints about the new houses under the AGRICULTURE: Mfr. Thomson accused me Government scheme. I believe we hare scores of not accepting any amendments to Bills of builders in country districts who could which have beenl introduced. He said T obl- erect housces of a standard equal to that of jected to "ts being cross-ed and "i's" being those built by anyone in the city. We know dotted. I take exception to that. Only that wood and asbestos houses containing tonight I asked the Committee to accept five and six rooms will cost. more than £:600. seven amendments from another place be- I could show members public halls that have cause I thought they would improve a Bill; been built by unregistered builders who have and the other night T asked the Committee dotm? an excellent job, to the specifications to accept an amendment, as a result of which of the Public Works Department. a vitriolic attack was made onl me in an- other place. We are all out to improve the The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: Bill, hut it is a matter of opinion as to what Why do they not become registered? is an imnprovement. What I am concerned E1on. H. TUCKEY: I caanot answer about is that if we try to go too far, we that question. 1728 ICOUNCIL.]

Hion. Sir Charles Latham: They have The Chief Secretary: Your last guess is probably qualified since 1939. about right. lion. H. TUCKEY: I think the measure Hon. G. FRASER: So I intend to play was intended to restrict the. trade to a few safe by moving to insert the word "eight." builders. It was not to stop jerry-building. Hon. Sir CHARLES LAT HAM: Accord- That was just eye-wash and propagaoda. A ing to Standing Order No. 131- qualified trnalesman can do as much Jerry- No amendment shall be proposed to be made building as anyone else. A house that was to any words which the Council has resolved worth £400 in 1938 would surely be wvorth shall not be left out, or whicb have been in- approximately twice as much today. If & serted in or added to a question, except it be man was, able to afford a small home of, say, the addition of other words thereto. four or five rooms and equal to a value of (lull we then strike out the figure of £800 to about £.400, surely he is now entitled to inriude the figure of £1,000. erect the same place even if it costs double The CRAW MAN: When the motion for that amount. Of course, the Bill provides for the adoption of the Committee's report i but it is a question of an increase of £200, moved any hon. member may hare the that sum is sufficient. When the Act whether Bill recommitted for the further eon- was first introduced I was opposed to limit- Nderat ion of the amended clause ani he can ing the sum to £C400 and I would rather see then mnove that the word "eight" be struck Mr. Thomson'n suggestion in the Bill than ou? with a view to inserting another wordl, leave the figure at £600. I agree with the proposed amendment. The CHIEF SECRETARY: if -anlin member desires to have £1,000 put in, surely Amendment put and a division taken with he mu-st rote against thisL amendment a9nd the following result: then mnove to insert the words "one Ayes ...... i thouusand," Noes. . . . 5 -The CIJAIRlMAN: I hope meniliers will Majority for 6 nt start a fresh debate on this amendment - because I think all the arguments have AVEs. already been put forward. lion. W. 3. Mann lion. 0i 1 ive Hlon. 01. H., Simapson Hon. A. THOMSON: I would like to Hion. A.. Thomson Ilon. i.A. Dln e. Ilon. 'd lae=i lion. H1. Turkey know where I stand. Can I move that the lion. R . M. Forrest lion. Sir Cbh~ inthniu words "one thousand" be inserted! lion. 0. Fraser (Teller.) NOES. The CH{AIRMAN: We must deal with the lion. ii. CriHon. 0. R. Wood amendment before the Committee. Mr. Han. P. R.Gaon. J. M5.Cunnivgham lion. ii. S. Wv. Parker (Teller.) Fraser has moved that the word "eight" be inserted in lieu of the word struck out. If thus Amendment (to strike out word) 'Mr. Thomson wisheq to have the words "One pas-Red. thousand" included, he must vote against fLon. G1. FRASER: I move an amend- the word "eight," and if successful, he can ment-- then move to insert the words "one thou- That the word "eight'' be inserted in lieu. sand." If the word "eight" is inserted in of the word struck out. lieu of the word struck out, the hon. mem- I have given the matter serious considera- ber mnay, when the motion has been moved tion and feel that if we insert a larger sum for the adoption of the report, move that than £800 the managers, at a conference, the Bill be recommitted foe the purpose of might not be able to agree and the Bill reconsidering Clause 3 and he can then would thus lapse, leaving the figure in the move that the word "eight" be struck out Act at £400. and the words "one thousand" inserted in The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: lieu. Make it £700. Amendment (to insert; word) put and Hon. G. FRASER: If we put in "one passed. thousand" in lien of the word struck out, Hon. G. FRASER: I move an amend- t.Iw Minister may not accept it, and we will mient- be left with the figure of £400. That paragraph (b) be struck out. [ 19 OCTOBER, 1948.] 172971

B~y this amendment I am seeking to over- Bill. I shall not argue the point. If mnem- conmc the continuing penalty. The Act pro- bers want to amend the Bill and make it vides that for a first offence the fine shall be Unacceptable to another place, it is their not more than £C20 and for a second offence business, not mine. the fine Ohall be not less than £20 or more, Hon. E,. H. GRitAY:. This provision is- than X40.. The Bill seeks to add to that a included in the bill to counter certain tontinuing penalty not exceeding £2 for happenings in the building trade. There every clay or part of a day during which are unscrupulous builders who attempt to such offence continues to be tcommitted after defeat the operations of the Housing Com- any conviction. I consider the additional mission. Although prosecuted and lined, penalty is too harsh altogether. I do not they still continue on. like continuing penalties at any time and I Hon. CG.Fraser: This hats nothing to do would prefer, if the Minister thinks the with the Housing Commission, existing penalty is not sullicient, to have such existing penalties increased for either Hot,. E. 11. GRAY: Pas t experience has a first or second offence. showvn that these people have broken the law, put up a good yarn and got away with If an offence of this description is comn- it, so that they could carry on. muitted, the cost will be borne not so much by the builder as by the person for whom Hon. G. FLRASER: This deals with the huome is being- built. If during the building offences only and has nothing, to course of construction the builder is prose- (d0 with the Housing Commission. What Mr. cuited because lie is unregistered, and, he Gray has said does not apply in this mnatter throws up the sponge, the p~ersonl for whom at all. the home i.. being built will be put to the lion. A. THOMSON: The Honorary extra expense of bringing in a new builder M1inister has suggested that if a man finds to take over the work. A builder who tenders himself in the position of having to pay a for a place- may he well within the limit fine, it is his look-out. Surely he does not prescribed in the Act but because of the de- realise what these penalties may mean. An lays in obtaining materials and so on, the unreg-istered builder may by some mischance cost may increase above the periuitted sum, describe himself as a registered builder, aind he will then he liable for prosecution. which makes him liable to a penalty. To H'on. A. Thomson. It could ruin the say that hie should be subject to a contiu- ing 1,enulty of £E2 a day should builder and the owner as wvell. be earn'r on work that he has started, is surely wrong. lion. G. FRASER: Yes, it could ruin This hai nothing to with the Housing Com- evvrybody concerned. mission at all, The 1HONORARY 'MINISTER FOR lion, E. H, Cray: Indirectly it has. AGRICULTURE: I object to the amend- lon. A. THOMSON: Apparently the mient. The piaragrIaph has been put in for object is to make a criminal offence for a pnrposze andI if a man commits an offence tradesmen to endeavour to make an hones't andl is; lined £20 he may not worry about it living. but will continue to early on with the build- lion. L, CRAIG: The Government must ing. If it is provided that there shall be a he given some credit for having a particular 1)enalty* of £2 a day, he will not continue to reason for providing this penalty. Experi- commit the offence. ence hasg shown that although a builder is Hion. A. Thomson: In the meantime what fined for a breach of the law, he goes on i., going, to happen to the building he has merrily with his operations. If he is fined a sta rted ? second time, the house is probably by then The hONORARY -MINISTER FOR finisheid. The Government is not lightly pro- AGRICULTURE: The owner should be posing- the continuing p~enalty, the object more careful about whom be employs and it beingr to stop men from persisting with would] thus he his look-out. What is the work in connection with which they have good of having Acts, of Parliament if we been fined. The object is to make builders arc not going to enforce them? The only obey -the law. way to enforce them is by penalties. That The HONORARY MIINISTER FORO is the sole reason for the provision in the AGRJ:CULTURE: Mr. Thomson suggests- 1780 jcbthdftj' - ~'Jr .-

that this provision will prevent an honest Nose. man making a ]iving. The individual may Heon: L. Cri Eon. E. H. Gray Ho. J. Md.Cu.ningham Hon. H.' W. Pre be honest but if he breaks the law he should Hon. H. A. C. Daffen H-on. G. B. Wood Hon ,.J. A. Dimmitt Eon. R. M. Forrest suffer the penalty. There is nothing crimi- I (Teller.) nal about this at all. The CHAIRMAN: I declare the amend- Hon. A. THOM1SON: I am amused at ment negatived. Mr. Craig's argument, particularly as he Amendment thus negatived. said we must support the Government's Bill. Hon. L. Craig: I said nothing of the sort. Hon, G. FRASER: I move an amen d- ment- R on. A. THOMSON: In effect, that is That in line 3 of paragraph (c) the word * what the hon. member said. "six"$ be struck out and the word "eight"2 Hon. L. Craig: Nothing of the sort. inserted in lieu. Ron. A. THOMSON: Then I must have Amendment put and passed; the clause, misconstrued his statement. In carrying out as amended, arced to, * the erection of a house, the builder may be Clause 4-New section: * asked by the owner to make certain al~tera- 'ions, which will involvia additional cost. The Hon. G. FRASER: I move an amend- budder might therefore be rendered liable ment- to a penalty of £20. For a second offence That in line 3 of paragraph (a.) of Subsec- * he itight be Huned £40 and on to ) of that tion (1) of proposed new Section 4A. the 1 word "sx be struck out and the word the Government wants to provide a continu- ''eight'' inserted in lieu, ing penalty of £2 a lay. The builder many have put £600 of his own cash into the I take this opportunity of replying to some building and £100 worth of his own labour, remarks made by the Minister on the yet through a mnischance he may be pen- second reading of the Bill. I may he very alised. I quted an instance of a man being innocent-looking and very easygoing, but I fined £5 for purchasing sonme secondhand am not so innocent-looking or easygoing as bricks. Thes e penalities cdo not appeal to to believe the Chief Secretary when he tells mc. I thought the Government would have mie thant the words "by his own effort&' been more irnaci-miaded. I would sooner itican "by someone else's efforts.'' If his the Bill were lost than that this penalty contention he correct, then the words "for should li, areed to. his own use" must mean "for someond * Hon. Sir CHIARTAES LATHAM: I think else's use.'' we should be very careful about thiese pen- The Chief Secretary: So they would-his alties. Do not let us make it more difficult Wife's. to have homes constructed. Eon. G. FRASER: It the Chief Seere.. Hon. A. Thomson: Ticat is what I am tary/s interpretation were correct, then the anxious about. whole maca sure would be valueless. I Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: It would honestly believe he made a mistake, and be preferable for some of these mistakes to will let it go at that. be overlooked, so long as homes were being Amendment put and passed. built. I support the amendment. Hon. A. THOMSON: I wish to move to Amendment put and a division called for. strike out Clause 4. The CHAIRMAN: Before tellers are ap- pointed, I gi%+e ray vote with the noes. The CHAIRMAN: The lion. member's Division resulted as follows: course is to vote against the clause. Ayes . . 8. Hon. A. THOMSON: But I 'should he Noes .. . . 8 able to give my reasons.

A tie The CHAIRMAN: Certainly. - Hon. A. THOMSON: Under Subsection Ay sc.fln i lg abm (2) of proposed new Section 4A., a builder Hen. 0. Jine%t niot exceeding Ho.. R. .1. Boyle S1on. Sir Hb. Sitmpo may become liable to a fine Roa. E. M. Davii as Hon. A. Thomson £E50 or to imprisonment for any term not Hon. G. Fraser Eon. W. T. Mann (Tvijcr.? exceeding 12 months. If the total cost of [19 OchronR, 1948.] 1731 his building exceeds £800, he may be liable C-ause, as amended, agreed to. to either of those penalties. (Yiau sea 3i and 6, Title-agreed to. lion. E. H. Gray: No. B3:ll reported with amendments. The Honorary -Minister for Agriculture: The hon. member has dealt with only por- BILL-WESTERN AUSTRALIAN TROT- tion of the subsection. That is the punish- TING ASSOCIATION ACT ment for fraud. AMENDMENT. lion. A. THO-MSON: I cannot agree to ~Seca ad Reading. the clause, and shall vote against it. The Honorary 'Minister for Agriculture: HON. SIR CHARLES LATHAM (East) The hon. inember does not know what his 19.19] in moving the second reading said: luck will be. This is a small Bill which proposes to amend lion. A. THOMSON:- I do not know any- Section 15 of the Western Australian Trot- thing about building! I have not the slight- ting Association Act. Under the existing est idea about it! Act, the parent body is permitted to hold The Honorary Minister for Agriculture: one trotting meeting a year for the benefit of what is known as the Country Districts- Nobody said so. Council which consists of three district coun- lion. A. THOMSON: I have built many cils, namely, tile Great Southern, the North houses- in the couintry, and if we are to make Eastern and the South West. The South builders, liable to the penalties set out in Wes: Council represents the Harvey, Donny- Subsection (2);, then the sooner we get on brook, Bridget own, AManjimup and Collie the dole the better. (labs-five clubs in all-with the proba- hilitv of a sixth, Busselton. The Great lion. G. FRASER: I hope "Mr. Thomson Southern Districts Council represents five wilt not persist in his attitude. If he votes clulk, namely, Wagin, Kataluniug, Narrogin, against the clause, that means we shall lose Wvill-aznis and Dumbleyuing-Moulvinning the' benefit of paragraph (c) of Sulbsection. The North Eastern Districts, Council repre- (1) of the proposed new section, and that sents Kellerberrin, York, Wyalkatelien. is vital to the measure. I think there is a KTY-that is, Kununoppin-Trayning-Ycl- lot of sulbstance in Mr. Thomson's objec- heni-Qunirading, Bruce Rock and ('orrigin tion to proposed new Subsection (2). 1 -svnclubs. In all, 17 clubs are repre- instanced earlier the case of an unregistered sented. builder aecepting a contract at £780 or £800. At the one meeting, which the parent body The Chief Secretary: That would not bye is allowed to hold yearly to provide funds a false declairation. for the country clubs, £800 has been raised. Hon. G. FRASER: It could be linked up That amount distributed amongst all the that way. clubs is less than £60 each, and is not of The Chief Secretary: It would not be much use to them. At the time that pro- false when he made it, and that is the tim vision was included in-the Act the right of of the offence. It must be false to his the parent body to collect totalisator frac- knowledge. tions to the nearest shilling was taken away. As members know, the fractions today' are Hfon. G. FRASER: I am a little afraid taken to the nearest sixpence. In conse- that once the price goes over £800 the quence, the amount available to the parent builder will be in some trouble, body for distribution is considerably less Hon. A. Thomson: Men have already than it was before the fractions were re- been fined for exceeding the amount of £400. due'd. This meeting for the country clubs was held last July and, as I pointed out, lion. G. FRASER: I would not stand out an amount of £800 was raised. To that against a fraudulent declaration, but it sumn the parent body added £200, making would be possible to make a false declara- £1,000 in all. tion which would not be fraudulent. That is the point worrying me. 11on. L. Craig: Did you say, July? The Chief Secretary: You need not worry Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: Yes. It about that. is a very bad time of the year, and if the. 1732 [cbtwcm.]

House agrees to the two additional meetings, Hon. IV. J. Mann: Many of them should I daresay they will still he held in July, al- be in butchers' carts. though I do not know. I anticipate fromt the figures I have seen that there is a pos- Hon. Sir CHARLES LATHAM: I also sib'iity of only £2,480 being available to point out that the breeding of trotting distribute among the country clubs. LaaIk horses has become qluite an industry in year the Trotting Association paid over Western Australia. Many requests have £197,000 in totalisator tax, and £24,000 in bern received from the Eastern States f or amusement tax, or an average of £331 for horses of this type. It is not necessary for every day of the year. That is a substantial me to tell members that in Australia this amount to pay in taxes. We can imnagine State has led the way iu trotting. One has that a good deal of the association"'s rev- only to go to the Trottingr Association enue goes in this way. During the year it ground to realise what trotting actually is distributed £4,302 amongst charities. "Mem- here. It is, one of the ouitstaniding attractions bers probably kinow that the Western Aus- for visitors. Nearly everyone who comnea tralian Trotting Association is allowed, by here says, ''I would like to see one of your Act of Parliament, to run 35 meetings a trotting meetings because I understand they year, plus 10 meetings for the Fremnantle are one of the outstanding- features of West- Trotting Club and five for charity. If we enAuistralia.'' It is Perfectly true that allow these additional two meetings, the as- they are. 1 hope we shiall. hi' this means, lie 'able to encourage the breeding of trot- sociation wvill conduct 38 meetings a year, but the revenue from the three meetings I ters iii the country districts, and probably have mentioned will he devoted to the coun- jprovide at market for them iii the Eastern try clubs only. States. I am anxious to see the sport decentral- The country organisations are having a difficult time because in the past they were ibed. People in the country are entitlca to have, the ,anne opporinniti es as those who permitted a great deal of freedom, inas- much as they could move the horses about live in the city. Of course, they cannot expert to have such wonderful mneetings, al- by means of floats. -Now the screw has been though night trotting is being established put on them and they are not allowed the petrol that they could obtain previously. ]n somne country centres. York attracted a Members will have seen a statement made wumber of people to the last two meetings by the -Minister that, beyond a radius of held there. Keleberrin and, I understand, trot- 50 miles of the metropolitan area, the use Harvey are likely to introduce night of petrol for the conveyance of racehorses ting at a very early dlate. The sport might or trotters is not permitted. We all agree lie conducted in those places in a mianner that country people should be given an oppor- similar to that experienced here. Members. LUiatv to indulge in the same sport as city miighit say that the Trotting Association folk. I believe that the country can help makes a lot of money. Well, it does, and the a great deal in the breeding of the right it makes very good use of it. During class of horse for trotting and other sport- rear it has distributed over £4,000 among ing pu-poses. This is the only moans by charities. While the war was in progress, whih we shall get hacks in the future. nearly the whole of its revenue was used No-one is going to breeo. hacks, except for patriotic Purposes. station,; in the North-West. Hon, L. Craig: Mlost of it goes; in taxa- Hon. L. Craig: Very few trotters are of t ion. env ulse aN hacks4. lon. Sir CHARLES I.ATITAM: As I said earlier, £331 per day, including Sun- Honi. Sir CHARLES LATHAM1: Some! turn out to he fairly good hacks. T heree days;, is paidl in taxes, and I sup~pose there seen quite substantial spring-cart horses are other taxes besides those I have men- obtained from trotter-. tionedl. I did not, for instance, take into account incomne tax. Even though two ad- The Chief Secretary: A great number ditional meetings are allowed, the associa- ought still to be in carts. tion will still have to Pay totalisator duty, Hlon. Sir CHIARLES LATHAM,. Some income tax and other taxes. because thei are in bread carts, butchers' carts and so on. mneetings, will nt he for charitable purposes. (19 Oaonsn, 194S.] 1733

This is a very small Bill the purpose of which is to substitute the word ''three'' 2Eswltatibt 5euble. for the word "one," and the word '"meet- ings'1 for the word "meeting." I hope Tuesday, 19th October, 1948. the House wvill agree that country people- it is in their interest that this Bill has been CONTENTS. introduced-should have opportunity to in- page Motion : Obituary, late Hon. P. Collier, troduce this sport into their district. The M.L.A...... 173 people of Kittanning, Wagin. Kunnunoppin, Auditor General's report, Section " A," 1948 1735 or Wyalkatchem, for instance, have little Privilege, as to member for Canning and opportunity to come to Perth court subpoena ...... 1735 regularly to Questions : Coalmlining, (a) as to tenure of attend sporting fixtures. There is not suffi- Black Diamond leases ... .. 1787 cient money in trotting nowadays to enable (b) as to Amalgamated Collieries) them both to build prope courses compliance with covenants .. 1'737 and pro- Health, as to Swan miver pollution .. 1737 vide attractive prize money. That does not Education, as to Bunbury High School include Kalgoorlie, of course, which I think playing field...... 1737 has a special arrangement with the Child Welfare Act, as to street-trading prosecutions ...... 1738 W.A.T.A. I believe that the association Assent to Bill...... meets its deficiencies and shares in its Bills : Supply (No. 2) £3,700,000, Standing 1759 profits, if any, but perhaps, as there is no Orders suspension, Message, all stages reference to Kalgoorlie in the W.A.'T.*A. returned ...... 1738 Bush Fires Act Amendment, Sr. .. 1739 balance sheet, the Kalgoorlie club is run Motor Vehicle (Third Party Insurance) on its own. I hope members will give this Act Amendment, 2r...... 1739 measure due consideration and see that it Justices Act Amendment, 2r...... 1742 Poultry Industry (Trust Fund), Message 1759 is passed through this House. I move- Brands Act Amendment message .. 1759 That the Bill be now read a second time. Health Act Amendment, Council's amendments...... 1759 On motion by Hon. H. A. C. flaffen, de- State Housing Act Amendment, returned 1759 bate adjourned. Marriage Act Amendment, Council's message ...... 1759 ADJOURNM.ENT-SPEUIAL. Registration of Births, Deaths and Mar- riages Act Amendment, Council's message ...... 1759 THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. H. S. Friendly Societies Act Amendment, St. :1759 W. Parker-Metropolitan-Suburban): I The West Australian Club (Private), St., Corn...... 1760 move- Western Australian Government Tram.- That the House at its rising adjourn till ways and Ferries, 2r...... 1781 Tuesday, the 26th October. Western Australian Marine, Corn. 1704 Annual Estimates, Message, Financial State- Question put and passed. ment for 194849 ...... 1743 Adjournment, special ...... 1771 Ho0use adjourned at 9.33 p.m.

The SPEAKER took [he Chair at 4.30 p.m., and read prayers.

NOTION-OBITUARY. The Late Hon. P. Collier, M.L.A.

THE PREMIER (Hon. 1). R. McLartv- Mlurray-Wellington) [4.k2]: I move- That this House records its sincere regret at the leath of the Honourablo Philip Collier, a Member of this House and a former Premier of this State, places on record its appreciation of his meritorious public service, and tenders its deep sympathy to his widow and members of his family in their bereavement. The terms of this resolution to be conveyed to the widow and family of the deceased gentleman by Mr. Speaker.