Vol. 600 Thursday, No. 3 14 April 2005

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Thursday, 14 April 2005.

Request to Move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ……………… 985 Order of Business ……………………………… 986 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second Stage (resumed) ………………1003 Ceisteanna — Questions Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cu´ iv) Priority Questions ……………………………1066 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1089 Adjournment Debate Services for People with Disabilities ………………………1090 Child Abuse ………………………………1092 Community Employment Schemes ………………………1094 Closed Circuit Television Systems ………………………1097 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1101 985 986

DA´ IL E´ IREANN Mr. Kenny: It will be a shock when the Ceann Comhairle approves one of those matters. ———— An Ceann Comhairle: Some day. De´ardaoin, 14 Aibrea´n 2005. Thursday, 14 April 2005. Order of Business. ———— The Ta´naiste: It is proposed to take No. 18, Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Second Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar Stage (resumed); and No. 17, Land Bill 2004 10.30 a.m. [Seanad] — Second Stage (resumed). It is pro- posed, notwithstanding anything in Standing ———— Orders, that the taking of any divisions demanded on Nos. 18 and 17 shall be postponed Paidir. until immediately after the Order of Business on Prayer. Tuesday, 19 April.

———— An Ceann Comhairle: There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the postponement of any divisions demanded on Request to move Adjournment of Da´il under Nos. 18 and 17 agreed to? Agreed. Standing Order 31. An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the Mr. Kenny: I wish to raise three issues with the Order of Business I propose to deal with a Ta´naiste. No legislation regarding the nursing number of notices under Standing Order 31. I will home charges is contained on the A list of legis- call Deputies in the order in which they submitted lation. When does the Ta´naiste expect to be able their notices to my office. to introduce such legislation? Will that legislation deal with the problem of lump sum payments Mr. Connolly: I seek the adjournment of the which might result in pensioners having their pen- Da´il under Standing Order 31 to debate the fol- sions reduced? Will it also address the matter of lowing urgent matter: the serious misgivings the private nursing homes and the Statute of being expressed about the effects of unmonitored Limitations? levels of chemical fluoridation of drinking water I raise this matter in a non-political fashion as on public health; the correlation between dental I know the Ta´naiste has an interest in it. Last fluorosis and bone fractures in children, the night we debated cancer screening programmes, Republic’s rate of dental fluorosis which is triple in particular BreastCheck. The radio advertise- that of Northern Ireland where fluoridation is ment for BreastCheck certainly does not do banned and the failure to implement the recom- justice to women who live in the west and south mendations of the forum on fluoridation to and should be revisited. It is offensive to women reduce limits of fluoride in drinking water. who live in parts of the country where the prog- ramme does not apply. Mr. Sargent: I seek the adjournment of the Da´il under Standing Order 31 to debate the following An Ceann Comhairle: That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. urgent matter: the public outcry over the crisis in hospitals, including the generous offers from Mr. Kenny: I suggest that we have a debate members of the public of portacabins and equip- next week on the report the Government will ment as a practical gesture to accident and emer- have received from the Dublin Airport Authority gency departments which are so chronically in respect of the issues of security at Dublin Air- under-resourced at present. port. I understand that from 6.30 a.m. to 9 a.m., some 44 flights were delayed. There are reports Mr. Eamon Ryan: I seek the adjournment of of security staff entering planes before crews the Da´il under Standing Order 31 to debate the and pilots. following urgent matter: that the current arrange- ments for drift netting of wild salmon at sea may An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot go into detail place the State in breach of the UN Convention on the matter. on the Law of the Sea which places obligations on the State for the conservation of migratory Mr. Kenny: We should have a full discussion wildlife, and the condemnation by the UK auth- about the matter next week. orities of our drift netting policy which has now become an issue in the upcoming British general The Ta´naiste: Legislation will be needed to election. deal with some elements of the nursing home charges issue. It is intended to have that legis- An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the lation passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas by matters raised they are not in order under Stand- the end of this session. The legislation, if ing Order 31. required, will deal with the issue of ensuring that 987 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 988

[The Ta´naiste.] an omnibus question time on the Order of the moneys to be paid back will not be used to Business. prevent people getting social welfare entitle- ments. In other words, it will not be used for the Mr. Rabbitte: ——complaining about a com- purposes of means-testing people, which would pany being undercut. be very unreasonable. This may be done through the proposed legislation or there may be another An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to obey mechanism for doing so. The issue of private the Chair. nursing homes is separate. The proposed Bill will provide for the repayment of those in public insti- Mr. Rabbitte: May I ask about No. 6 on the tutions. Litigation is pending regarding the legislative programme? I would have finished by private nursing home issue, which will be vigor- now if the Ceann Comhairle had permitted me. ously defended by the State. I believe everybody would accept we could not possibly pay for every- An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair cannot allow body in a private nursing home. an omnibus question time on the Order of Busi- Last night I said the Government was commit- ness or make a special rule for a Deputy. ted to ensuring BreastCheck was rolled out in Cork and Galway and in place by 2007. One Mr. Rabbitte: The Ceann Comhairle is right. would wish that population screening prog- When will the Employees (Provision of Infor- rammes could be carried out for the whole coun- mation and Consultation) Bill come before the try at once. Unfortunately that is not possible. In House? Is it not extraordinary that during the every other country we reviewed this has been Ta´naiste’s period in the Department of done on a phased roll-out basis, which is hap- Enterprise, Trade and Employment her officials pening in this case. The commitment is to have it and inspectors carried out an investigation when in place by 2007. complaints made to me, the then Minister for The Minister for Transport advises me that he Transport, Deputy Brennan, and others concern- is not certain when he will have the Dublin Air- ing that employer were communicated to her port Authority’s report. Clearly any discussion Department directly, yet she gave a clean bill of that might take place in the House should be dis- health to Gama practices? cussed by the Whips. An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a Mr. Rabbitte: Will the Ta´naiste clarify her debate. answer about the long-stay nursing home charges? We now receive queries from people The Ta´naiste: On long-stay charges the inten- wishing to know when they are likely to receive tion is to have the legislation passed before the some refund under whatever redress scheme the summer recess. As this will obviously be a mam- Ta´naiste might announce. I have come across moth logistical task, we are going to tender to get some cases of people in extremis who are desper- assistance because the last time the health service ately in need of some alleviation. was in a position in which repayments had to be In her speech at her party conference, the made, it took a considerable length of time — I Ta´naiste promised further involvement by the believe it was up to three years — to reimburse a private sector in the health service. Did she mean relatively small number of people in comparison Mr. Ben Dunne and other benefactors through to the number involved in the current case. I hope the “Liveline” programme? we will start to make repayments towards the end of the year, beginning in autumn, but it will not An Ceann Comhairle: The matter does not be before the summer. arise on the Order of Business. On the issue surrounding work permit legis- lation, the Bill in question will be before the Mr. Rabbitte: I wonder if the health service, House during this session. Complaints were also like Mr. Charles Haughey, will end up dependent made to me at my constituency clinic and investi- on Ben Dunne. gated on my behalf on at least two occasions when I was Minister for Enterprise, Trade and An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a Employment. I have asked my press officer today debate. The Deputy has other opportunities to to publish the outcome of those investigations as raise the issue if he so wishes. presented to me by officials on that occasion. It is not correct to state nothing was done as the Mr. Rabbitte: With regard to the letter con- complaints were investigated. cerning Gama Construction written by the Ta´naiste to the then Minister for Transport, Mr. Rabbitte: I did not say nothing was done Deputy Brennan, and published today, I wrote to but asked how the Department ended up giving the Ta´naiste at that time about the same Gama a clean bill of health. employer—— The Ta´naiste: If one appoints experts to do An Ceann Comhairle: The matter does not these things and they carry out inquiries or an arise on the Order of Business. We cannot have audit is carried out on behalf of the company—— 989 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 990

Mr. Broughan: The Department did not have The Ta´naiste: The Sea Fisheries Bill will be many experts at its disposal. taken this session. It would be normal for all Departments affected to be consulted on the The Ta´naiste: Let us be reasonable. charities regulation Bill.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: Is the Ta´naiste blaming Mr. Naughten: Last January the Minister for officials again? Agriculture and Food stated in the House that the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Chil- The Ta´naiste: No, I am simply stating it is not dren would introduce legislation which the Mini- the case that the matter was not investigated. ster for Agriculture and Food could amend to facilitate revised food labelling. To what legis- An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Members to con- lation was she referring and when will it come fine their questions to matters relevant to the before the House? When will the House take Order of Business. Second Stage of the Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill and Report Stage of the The Ta´naiste: While we have some private sec- Adoptive Leave Bill? tor investment in the health services, we need more capital investment in the service. We wel- The Ta´naiste: I am not in a position to indicate come Irish or other money if it becomes available when the House will take Second Stage and to provide services. Generous as \30,000 is, one can imagine how much it would do in the context Report Stage of the two Bills but I will make of \12 billion. inquiries and have somebody communicate with the Deputy. On the labelling of food, the Minister Mr. Quinn: Private sector investment costs the for Agriculture and Food is anxious that the health service more than public sector source of beef be displayed. The matter is being investment. examined because we may need to go beyond this. Ms Burton: The Ta´naiste is responsible for underspending the Department’s capital allo- Mr. Naughten: No legislation is pending. cation by 13%. She is so incompetent she cannot spend her own money. The Ta´naiste: Legislation will be required.

An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Ta´naiste to Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: What assurances can speak without interruption. She was asked a the Ta´naiste give women in County Kerry follow- question regarding No. 6 on the legislative ing a report that the Health Service Executive programme. proposes to close the maternity department of Tralee General Hospital? The Ta´naiste: As I stated, the Bill will be taken this session. An Ceann Comhairle: The matter does not arise on the Order of Business. Mr. Sargent: On No. 35, the charities regulation Bill which currently comes under the Department Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: It arises under the of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, will nurses and midwives amendment Bill. Is the the Department of Health and Children have a Government about to do another U-turn on the role in this legislation given that it deals with reg- Great Southern Hotel Group and is it proposed ulating charities? Will the Bill formalise the role to introduce legislation to facilitate that? of private benefactors? An Ceann Comhairle: Questions must be con- An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot discuss the fined to promised legislation. contents of the Bill. The Tanaiste: As the Deputy is aware, many Mr. Sargent: On the promised legislation, ´ about which I must ask a question since the members of the Government are very supportive Ceann Comhairle ruled my request under Stand- of the Great Southern Hotels when they spend ing Order 31 out of order, given that the Sea Fish- their holidays in the Deputy’s constituency. eries Bill is a subject of discussion in the Labour Party in Britain—— Mr. S. Ryan: Will they carry through their sup- port and ensure the group is not privatised? An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy may not make a speech. An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Ta´naiste to continue, please. Mr. Sargent: Although the Bill is due to be taken in this session, will it be given priority The Ta´naiste: We will have to ensure the hotels because of drift netting of salmon around our start to make some money. The nurses and mid- coast? wives Bill will be taken next year. 991 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 992

Mr. J. Higgins: Since the Ta´naiste carries a Mr. Broughan: The point is whether the Mini- major personal responsibility for the Gama ster investigated them. exploitation scandal—— Mr. J. Higgins: He applied for—— An Ceann Comhairle: Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business? An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy Joe Higgins to show the same courtesy to Deputy Mr. J. Higgins: Yes. The Minister for Stanton as was afforded to him. Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, indicated last night that he wants the Mr. Stanton: I have tried to get some infor- labour inspectorate report on Gama published as mation about the fact that the Commission to soon as possible, laid before the Oireachtas and Inquire Into Child Abuse Act 2000 (Additional debated in the House. As soon as the High Court Functions Order 2001) was struck down by the gag is lifted, will the Ta´naiste provide for a major courts. I was given to understand that the Child debate on the implications of the labour inspec- Abuse Amendment Bill 2005 would deal with this tors’ report? In regard to legislation, will the but I am now told that it will not. What is the Ta´naiste promise that any legislative changes Government’s response? Legislation has been pointed to by the report in light of the experience promised. When will it be seen and what is the of the Gama scandal will be immediately fast- Government going to do about it? This affects tracked in the House? many people with babies who——

The Ta´naiste: Officials on behalf of the An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a Government made presentations overseas debate on the issue. encouraging companies to tender for work here to complete the national development plan. At The Ta´naiste: That legislation was published on the time they were made everybody was told they 24 March and is ordered for Second Stage. would be subject to European tender procedures, labour laws would have to be honoured and there Mr. Stanton: It will not deal with the issue. could be no discrimination. No doubt was left about this in the official presentations made by The Ta´naiste: The Deputy will have to discuss officials in a number of cities overseas to encour- the matter with the Whips. I cannot deal with it age companies to enter the Irish market. The here. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will publish the labour inspectors’ report if and Mr. Stanton: It will not deal with the fact that when he can. He has given a commitment that a this order was struck down. I have raised this on debate will be held in the House. Clearly, if there a number of occasions and have been informed of is any legislative gap on this matter, it will be it this week by way of a reply to a parliamentary rectified. question which indicated that it is not envisaged that the child abuse amendment Bill will address the issue of the vaccine trials. I want to know Mr. J. Higgins: Would the Ta´naiste like to when the Ta´naiste will bring forward an amend- apologise for her role in the matter? ment or primary legislation to deal with it, as promised. The Ta´naiste: I had no act, hand or part in bringing the company in question to Ireland. The Ta´naiste: The reason it cannot is because What I did, as Minister for Enterprise, Trade and the Supreme Court has said that the witnesses, Employment, was encourage investment in this by virtue of age and other factors, cannot give country anywhere I went. I also encouraged evidence. There is no point in having an inquiry employees to come here and would still do so. if the key witnesses are not in a position to par- I regret very much the circumstances which are ticipate. This is a fact and I think the group emerging regarding this case. It is a disgrace and understands this. I have spoken to some members I would not stand over it. of that group. We must be realistic and we cannot have an inquiry just for the sake it, if we cannot Mr. J. Higgins: How could the company get get the facts. away with it for five years? Mr. McDowell: The lawyers would like that. An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Stanton. The Ta´naiste: On the vaccine trials, the Mr. Stanton: I have been trying to get a Supreme Court said one cannot call these wit- response to a question for some time. nesses by virtue of their age.

Mr. Broughan: There are other cases about Mr. Stanton: The Minister for Justice, Equality which we are not aware. and Law Reform makes a joke out of everything.

Mr. McDowell: What else does the Deputy An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy cannot have know about? a debate on the issue. 993 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 994

Mr. Quinn: I ask the Ta´naiste to explain why An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kehoe is being the long-promised Building Control Bill has been disorderly. The Deputy can bring the matter to delayed for so long. It is wonderful to behold that the attention of the Minister for Health and Chil- the country is experiencing an unprecedented dren during Question Time. level of activity in the construction industry. However, it is without the safeguards and con- Mr. Kehoe: I was elected to represent the sumer protection associated with this Bill. Can people of Wexford here. one assume that it is due to the influence of the Galway Races hospitality tent and the builders An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is not there that have prevented this? entitled to raise the matter on the Order of Business. An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a debate on this issue. Mr. Kehoe: This has gone on for too long. I am not sitting down until I get an answer.

Mr. Quinn: Why then is it taking so long? Can An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kehoe is being it be contracted out to some other parliamentary disorderly and I ask him to resume his seat. draftsman with nothing to do? More than three years have passed. Mr. Kehoe: I am not sitting down until I get an answer. The Ta´naiste: I cannot explain why it has taken so long. I am told it will be published later this An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair will be year. obliged to deal with the Deputy. This sort of behaviour cannot be allowed on the Order of Mr. Quinn: This is the standard reply which Business. unfortunately the Ta´naiste must give because it is the information she has been given. However, it Mr. Kehoe: I am not sitting down until I get will be the same next year. I invite the Ta´naiste an answer. to consult with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, An Ceann Comhairle: It appears to the Chair to consider whether the Bill can be contracted out that the Deputy wishes to leave the House. Does to be drafted. the Deputy wish to leave the House?

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has made Mr. McDowell: The Deputy has no further his point. commitments until next Tuesday. Mr. Kehoe: It is absolutely scandalous. It is not Mr. Quinn: It is a serious problem. just happening in Wexford but throughout the country. Mr. Kehoe: The Ta´naiste is probably aware of the bed crisis in Wexford General Hospital over Mr. Callely: Bye-bye. the past number of years. Are any Bills being brought forward that will improve the position in An Ceann Comhairle: I am going to ask the Wexford General Hospital because—— Deputy to leave the House unless he resumes his seat immediately. An Ceann Comhairle: On promised legislation only. I call Deputy Sea´n Ryan, Mr. Kehoe: It is an absolute disgrace. If the Ceann Comhairle could see what is Mr. Kehoe: I have gone through the legislative happening—— programme and I cannot find anything—— An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kehoe, you are An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Sea´n to leave the House. It is obvious to the Chair that Ryan. The Chair suggests to the Deputy that he Deputy Kehoe wishes to leave the House. submits a question to the Minister for Health and Children. Mr. Kehoe: It is an absolute scandal in Wexford General Hospital.

Mr. Kehoe: I will not sit down until I get an A Deputy: The waiting lists are someone answer because the crisis in Wexford General else’s problem. Hospital has gone out of control. Mr. Kehoe: This cannot continue. We had 35 An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kehoe can only people on trolleys last week and they have run ask a question on promised legislation. I call out of beds. They have to use trolleys. There is Deputy Sea´n Ryan. no money for them.

Mr. Kehoe: There were 35 people on trolleys An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy is out of last week. order. 995 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 996

[An Ceann Comhairle.] The Ta´naiste: There are issues relating—— I move: “That Deputy Kehoe be suspended from the service of the Da´il”. Ms McManus: Under what authority is the Ceann Comhairle making these decisions to cut Question put. off speakers?

A Deputy: Vo´ ta´il. An Ceann Comhairle: My predecessors have made the same decisions. An Ceann Comhairle: Under Standing Order 61, any division is postponed to take place Ms McManus: I am entitled to ask this immediately before the Order of Business on the question. next sitting day. The Deputy must now leave the House. An Ceann Comhairle: If Deputy McManus reads Standing Order 26, she will see the Chair Mr. Kehoe: I am not leaving the House until I is correct. get an answer. Ms McManus: I am entitled to ask this ques- Mr. S. Ryan: Get a trolley. Wheel him out. tion. The Ceann Comhairle has denied me the right to ask it. An Ceann Comhairle: In view of the Deputy’s refusal to leave the House, the sitting is sus- An Ceann Comhairle: I have not denied the pended for five minutes. Deputy any rights.

Sitting suspended at 10.55 a.m. and resumed at Ms McManus: What is happening here is 11 a.m. wrong. I indicated to the Ceann Comhairle at the beginning of the Order of Business that I wished Mr. S. Ryan: Could the Ta´naiste explain why to ask a question. there appears to be a lack of commitment on the Government’s part towards the Pharmacy Bill? An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy McManus’s name is not even on the list. An Ceann Comhairle: I call on the Ta´naiste. Ms McManus: That is because you deliberately Mr. S. Ryan: I wish to finish my question. ignored me. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy will with- An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a draw that remark. debate on this issue. I am moving on to the next item. Ms McManus: The Ceann Comhairle nodded at me. Mr. S. Ryan: There is an inconsistency on this issue. An Ceann Comhairle: I did not deliberately ignore Deputy McManus. The Chair does not An Ceann Comhairle: I am pressing on with deliberately ignore anyone. Deputy McManus the next item as it is after 11 a.m. must withdraw the remark.

Mr. S. Ryan: We were told in the spring that Ms McManus: I withdraw the remark but I find the Pharmacy Bill would be introduced in 2005. it impossible to believe that we are now being However, the Minister says she does not know denied our rights to ask legitimate questions. when the Bill will be introduced. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputies are not being An Ceann Comhairle: The next item is No. 18, denied their rights. the Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill. The Deputy will be called first on Tuesday. Ms McManus: Deputy Sea´n Ryan was denied the right to ask his question properly. Mr. S. Ryan: I have raised a question. I am rais- ing a point of order. An Ceann Comhairle: He was not denied the right to ask his question. (Interruptions). Ms McManus: Deputy Crawford is being An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Sea´n Ryan is denied his right to ask questions and I was denied being totally disorderly. my right to ask questions.

Mr. S. Ryan: It is a legitimate question. An Ceann Comhairle: I ask the Deputy to resume her seat. An Ceann Comhairle: When the Ta´naiste was called to answer, Deputy Sea´n Ryan refused to Ms McManus: We are not being treated fairly resume his seat. in this House. 997 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 998

An Ceann Comhairle: I call on Deputy An Ceann Comhairle: There was no impli- McManus to resume her seat. cation whatsoever in my remark.

Ms McManus: We are not given the right to Mr. Howlin: Deputy Kehoe was merely seeking ask legitimate questions of this Government. to highlight the bed crisis in Wexford General Hospital. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy McManus should allow the Chair to deal with the query. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kehoe knew the consequences of persisting with his behaviour. Ms McManus: It is the job of the Ceann Comh- airle to ensure that the right questions are asked. Mr. Crawford: In eight days decisions will be made regarding the Nitrates Directive. I ask the An Ceann Comhairle: I call on Deputy Ta´naiste to organise a full debate on the directive McManus to resume her seat. If she continues to in this House in the coming week. rise while the Chair is speaking, she will be asked to leave. An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on the Order of Business. (Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy knows that Mr. Crawford: A debate on agriculture is Members of this House leave it because they wish necessary. Poultry, pig and other farmers will be to do so. They leave the Chair with no option but put out of business. to ask them to leave. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Crawford (Interruptions). should be orderly.

An Ceann Comhairle: Regarding the point of Mr. Crawford: My conduct is orderly. order raised by Deputy McManus, Deputy Sea´n Ryan asked a question on the Pharmacy Bill, the An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Crawford’s con- Ta´naiste was called upon to answer that question duct is not orderly. and when she was called to speak, Deputy Sea´n Ryan proceeded to make a statement about the Ms Lynch: Does the Ta´naiste intend to ensure Bill, which was out of order. I call on the Ta´naiste implementation of the promise made by Se´amus to reply to Deputy Ryan’s question on the Phar- Brennan under the Air Navigation Indemnity Bill macy Bill. that all airports would be left debt-free on the breakup of Aer Rianta? The Ta´naiste: I do not know who mentioned the spring session as the Bill is a mammoth piece An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on of legislation and it certainly will not be published the Order of Business. this year. However, I am examining bringing for- ward issues surrounding fitness to practice in a Mr. Timmins: Earlier, the Ta´naiste asserted smaller Bill that can be completed more quickly. that what was emerging about the treatment of the workers in Gama Construction was disgrace- An Ceann Comhairle: I call Deputy Crawford. ful and I agree with her. Does she also agree that the treatment of the unsecured creditors of IFI Mr. Howlin: The Ceann Comhairle said that who are owed \26 million by this Government, Members leave the House because they want to. which is a major shareholder, is also disgraceful? That has an implication for my constituency col- league, Deputy Kehoe, which is unfortunate and An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on I do not think it was intended by the Chair as it the Order of Business. would imply Deputy Kehoe’s motivation was less than the real motivation which was to underline a constituency point. I ask the Ceann Comhairle, Mr. Timmins: What plans does the Ta´naiste on reflection, to withdraw the remark. have to facilitate payment to those creditors who have recently been told after two years that they \ An Ceann Comhairle: Deputies know what is will only receive 74,000? permitted and what is not permitted on the Order of Business. If Deputies persist in breaking the An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Timmins must rules on the Order of Business in the manner in conclude. which they were broken this morning, the Chair has no choice but to ask them to leave the House. Mr. Timmins: I would like to ask the Ta´naiste when we can expect to see the introduction of the Mr. Howlin: I genuinely believe that impli- Company Law Consolidation and Reform Bill? cation was present in the Ceann Comhairle’s remark. I call on the Ceann Comhairle to with- An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Timmins should draw the remark. allow the Ta´naiste to answer his question. 999 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 1000

The Ta´naiste: The Bill does not deal with the Ms McManus: There has been no improve- issue of liquidation but it will be introduced in ment. The problems have been getting worse. 2006. Nurses are going out today to——

(Interruptions). An Ceann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a ques- tion that is appropriate to the Order of Business? An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Deputy Timmins to resume his seat and show some respect for Ms McManus: Yes. It is now clear the money the House. the Ta´naiste has allocated to her initiatives——

Mr. Broughan: My question concerns three An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a pieces of marine legislation. Regarding what hap- speech at this time. pened this morning to Deputy Kehoe, we discussed—— Ms McManus: I am only getting started. Does the Ta´naiste intend to bring in a Supplementary An Ceann Comhairle: This does not arise Estimate to ensure that there will be sufficient under marine legislation. funds for dealing with the accident and emer- Mr. Howlin: He did not say it. gency crisis which she has so far failed to do? With regard to the legislative programme, the Mr. Broughan: I have not said anything. We Ta´naiste has indicated there will be a new Bill discussed the issue on the Adjournment. I was concerning nursing home charges that will come nearly thrown out yesterday. Deputy Kehoe was into effect shortly. As it does not seem to appear, thrown out today. We do not usually have a where is this in the legislative programme? senior Minister here to discuss such issues and we Why is there such a major drift in the legis- cannot raise them elsewhere. That is the lation for which she is responsible? In September difficulty. 2004, the alcohol products (control of advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices/sales An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Broughan is promotions) Bill was promised for early 2005 but aware that he can raise this elsewhere. was changed to late 2005 in the most recent legis- lative programme. The medical practitioners Bill Mr. Broughan: One cannot. It is impossible. was promised for early 2005 but, according to the recent programme, has been moved to early 2006. An Ceann Comhairle: There are other ways to The adoption (Hague Convention, adoption raise this issue. authority and miscellaneous) Bill was promised for 2006 but is now scheduled for mid-2006. Mr. Broughan: Can I ask—— Despite what the Ta´naiste claims, it is not poss- ible to tell from this programme when the nurses An Ceann Comhairle: If the Deputy is not (amendment) Bill will be ready. The same applies happy with Standing Order 26 I suggest he ask to the pharmacy Bill, which was promised for for it to be amended. The Chair will be delighted 2005. Neither is it possible to determine when the to implement it. Voluntary Health Insurance board (corporate status) Bill, to which the Ta´naiste referred when Mr. Broughan: I am trying to be helpful by discussing the case of Vivas Health on 13 April, explaining the reasons, which the Chair knows. will be ready, even though it was promised for On the matter of the harbours Bill, does the 2005. Ta´naiste intend to have a fisheries harbours Bill as well? What has happened to the foreshore Mr. Quinn: Is the Ta´naiste sorry she moved? Bill? Ms McManus: The Bill providing for the health The Ta´naiste: The harbours Bill is intended for information quality authority was promised by 2006 but I do not know if it deals with the second ´ issue the Deputy raised. I understand that the the Tanaiste for shortly after the Health Bill but foreshore Bill is being reviewed. there is no indication of when that will now occur. Mr. Kevin Kelly, the executive chairman of the Mr. S. Ryan: It is being eroded. Health Service Executive, stated this morning there will be further legislation on accountability The Ta´naiste: It is being reviewed. and that he had held discussions with the Ta´naiste on this issue. However, there is no indication of Ms McManus: When the Ta´naiste became the such legislation either. Minister for Health and Children, she gave a We have a legislative programme and we ask commitment to resolve the accident and emer- questions in the House but every time we do gency crisis and that there would be significant there is a different answer. improvement by March 2005. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has made Mr. Howlin: That is right. her point. Allow the Ta´naiste to answer. 1001 Order of 14 April 2005. Business 1002

Ms McManus: It is important to have clarity only deal with public beds and publicly contrac- on this issue. The extent of the drift in terms of ted beds. How does she intend to deal with this legislation under the tenure of this Minister for matter? Will it be by way of legislation? There is Health and Children—— an issue of people in private nursing homes who are entitled to public beds or who may be in acute An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Ta´naiste to hospitals and occupying beds because they cannot answer the question. afford long-term care despite their entitlement to it. Will this be dealt with by way of legislation? Ms McManus: ——--is quite disturbing. An Ceann Comhairle: Is legislation promised? The Ta´naiste: The Deputy may laugh but there is no drift. The Ta´naiste: The issue of the charges will con- cern public beds. The pending litigation with Mr. Quinn: That is absolutely wrong. regard to private nursing homes and the State’s liability for their costs will be vigorously defended The Ta´naiste: I am making substantial changes by the State. This country cannot afford to pay to the heads of the medical practitioners Bill as for all the private nursing home costs. we must ensure we get this right. It is better to do so and have the Bill next year than to have it Ms O’Sullivan: What about the rights of people as it is this year. I have given a commitment to to these beds? the House that I will publish the heads of many of the Bills Deputy McManus mentioned, as it An Ceann Comhairle: We cannot have a would be helpful from the point of view of debate on this. public debate. No legislation has been promised on account- Mr. Boyle: On a point of order, why were only ability. Perhaps Mr. Kelly was speaking about two Members of the Technical Group asked to regulations that can be made under the Act we contribute to the Order of Business as opposed passed before Christmas 2004. The issue of to half a dozen from the other two Opposition charges has consumed many of my Department’s groups? resources over the past three months in terms of finances and manpower owing to the issue’s An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair apologises. implications. It is a current priority as we must Deputy Boyle will be the first Member called make repayments to honour the Supreme Court next Tuesday. decision on the one hand and seek to protect tax- payers’ money as best we can to invest what Mr. Boyle: I am asking for a ruling on this resources are available in health care on the matter. other. There will be a Supplementary Estimate for An Ceann Comhairle: There will be no ruling. this year but not to get additional moneys for the areas Deputy McManus mentioned. People must Mr. Boyle: There is usually a degree of pro- learn to live within their budgets. We are spend- portionality in the Order of Business. I ing a considerable amount of time on this. indicated—— Budgets for hospitals have doubled in recent years. However, a Supplementary Estimate will An Ceann Comhairle: The Chair was unaware be needed because we were unable to charge for that the Deputy was offering. the first three months of 2005 since December 2004, for example, which brings a shortfall of Mr. Boyle: ——a number of times. almost \40 million to the health service. We must deal with this and other issues concerning the An Ceann Comhairle: As the Deputy can change of accountability from the Department to appreciate, there was much to sort through this the HSE. morning.

Mr. Costello: I will be brief. In light of the dev- Mr. Boyle: I indicated at precisely the same astating criticism of St. Patrick’s Institution by the time as Deputy Crawford and the Chair could not inspector of prisons, as published in today’s news- miss either of us given where we are sitting. papers, when will the prison service Bill be intro- duced to remove responsibility for running An Ceann Comhairle: I refute the implication prisons from the Minister for Justice, Equality that the Chair is refusing to write names. At the and Law Reform and enable them to be run same time the Chair writes names, the Chair is properly? listening to the questions being asked to ensure they are on the Order of Business. The Chair The Ta´naiste: It is not possible to say at this apologises to any Deputies who raised their stage. hands but did not have their names noted. A number of Deputies raised their hands three or Ms O’Sullivan: The Ta´naiste indicated the four times to ensure the Chair did not miss them. legislation intended for before this summer will I suggest this course of action to Deputy Boyle. 1003 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1004

Mr. Boyle: Perhaps Members must engage in a compromise for Sinn Fe´in, we have accepted it histrionics to get attention in the House. as the absolute minimum acceptable standard for a human rights compliant and accountable polic- ing service. The ombudsman element of the Sinn Garda Sıocha´na Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second ´ Fe´in Garda reform package is, therefore, consist- Stage (resumed). ent with the Good Friday Agreement in that it relates to harmonisation of human rights protec- Question again proposed: “That the Bill be tions which, as set out in Strand Three, must be now read a Second Time.” at least equivalent in the two jurisdictions on the Mr. Crowe: I begin by reiterating an important island. The Minister cannot extract himself from part that was made by our party spokesperson on his obligations in this regard. justice. Despite what some Members on the This is not only our view. We welcome the Government side of the House, Sinn Fe´in does growing consensus that only an ombudsman can not see the Garda Sı´ocha´na in the category as the provide an effective complaints mechanism and RUC-PSNI. We acknowledge the Garda as the that nothing less than an ombudsman can com- State’s legitimate police service and recognise mand full public confidence. Leading human and applaud the good work done by many gardaı´ rights groups in this State, the Human Rights in our community over the years. Commission, the Irish Council for Civil Liberties and Amnesty International have endorsed this as Mr. Quinn: Does that include Detective Garda the most appropriate model for the gardaı´. Jerry McCabe? Amnesty International went further, advocating it as a model for police services throughout the Mr. Crowe: Yes, it does. However, confidence EU. Other progressive political parties, such as in the Garda is diminishing in many working class the Labour Party and the Green Party, have also communities and the case for fundamental accepted it. reform is well-established and timely. Sinn Fe´in Consistent with the recommendations of the has published detailed reform proposals to Irish Human Rights Commission, Sinn Fe´in pro- restore community confidence, which we submit- poses that a Garda ombudsman must be an open, ted to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law merit based appointment selected on the basis of Reform for his consideration prior to this Bill’s published criteria. It must be established separ- publication. ately from any body charged with a Garda man- My colleagues will go into more detail on our agement function or with a mandate to review proposals to establish a policing board for civilian Garda efficiency and effectiveness. It must be oversight and community policing partnerships at adequately resourced and staffed full time. It district levels for local community accountability, must be granted the necessary legal powers and which differ from the Minister’s proposed Garda resources to conduct independent investigations. inspectorate in Part 5 and the joint policing com- It must be allowed a scope of investigations that mittees in Part 2, sections 30 to 34. include the special detective unit unless and until I turn to our proposal to establish a Garda that unit is disbanded. ombudsman for this State to investigate alle- It must be authorised to question witnesses, gations of Garda misconduct and abuse of power compel document disclosure and access locations and to end the culture of impunity which is quite at will. It must be granted the same legal powers different in several major respects from the as gardaı´ to arrest and hold criminal suspects ombudsman commission proposed by the Mini- related to its own investigations. It must be ster in Parts 3 and 4 of the Bill. empowered to determine breaches of Garda dis- Sinn Fe´in recommends the establishment, on a ciplinary code and to refer evidence of criminality statutory basis, of a fully independent Garda on the part of gardaı´ to the Director of Public ombudsman to investigate police misconduct. Prosecutions. It must be empowered to resolve Impunity for police misconduct is a major human appropriate complaints informally with the com- rights issue around the world. It is not limited to plainant’s consent or to resolve complaints for- the Six Counties nor to this State. Last year, an mally by assigning penalties and remedies, includ- Amnesty International report on Europe ing recommendation for disciplinary action, revealed that impunity is endemic in most Euro- dismissal, changes in policy or procedure or com- pean jurisdictions. We accept that the level and pensation to the complainant. It must be empow- extent of misconduct here is not equivalent to ered to investigate systemic problems, including that of the RUC-PSNI but that does not mean policies and practices, and make general recom- people in this jurisdiction do not deserve the mendations to eliminate causes and classes of same standard of protections as their Northern complaints. Where determined necessary by the counterparts. Indeed, Strand Three of the Good ombudsman, this should include matters of Friday Agreement stipulates that equivalence is national security. an obligation on the Irish Government. The Garda ombudsman must be empowered to Sinn Fe´in’s proposals for a Garda ombudsman conduct independent investigations on matters of are based on the Patten reform model which is public interest on his or her own volition or on consistent with UN and Council of Europe stan- the request of the Minister without the need for dards on policing. While Patten was, and remains, a complainant. Investigations should be compul- 1005 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1006 sory in the cases of certain violations involving unreasonably short and restricts access to justice. loss of life, excessive force, ill treatment in cus- The Garda Commissioner retains too much tody, discrimination and political interference. Of power over the investigation process and we critical importance for justice in this State and could still end up with ineffective internal investi- necessary for a real end to impunity, it must have gations where the outcome was less than death or retrospective investigative powers. Any infor- serious harm. There is no obligation whatsoever mation that becomes available to the Director of on the commission to formally investigate serious Public Prosecutions, which indicates Garda mis- cases involving allegations of torture, sexual conduct, should be automatically referred to the assault or other abusive behaviour on the grounds Garda ombudsman. Gardaı´ under investigation of race or sexual orientation or political opinion should be afforded the full protection of due pro- if the end result was less than serious injury or cess rights. Both parties should be afforded equal death. Investigations can still be restricted in the treatment before the law, including full disclosure name of national security and the commission still and access to legal aid in cases where there is lacks the power to initiate investigations into indi- need and an opinion of sufficient merit. vidual incidents or systemic patterns of miscon- The Garda ombudsman must be required to duct or abuse. These are the main concerns. produce an annual report for publication, includ- There are others which my colleague, Deputy O´ ing statistics, identified trends or patterns, analy- Snodaigh, will treat in greater detail on Commit- ses and recommendations. The Government must tee Stage. establish a mechanism for effective interaction, I hope the Minister will accept Sinn Fe´in’s con- sharing of information and collaborative investi- structive amendments to strengthen this aspect of gation that enables the Garda ombudsman and the proposed legislation as I very much want to the Police Ombudsman for the Six Counties to be able to throw my party’s support behind this work together. reform effort when the Bill returns to the House As the Irish Human Rights Commission has on Report Stage. I do not want ministerial intran- argued to the Minister, this reform is not only sigence to force me into a position of voting necessary to respond adequately to the criticism against this Bill. of the existing complaints system and recom- I urge the Minister to go the extra mile and mendations raised repeatedly by the UN human accept the consensus on the ombudsman issue rights committee and the European committee and the broader issue of the validity of the Patten for the prevention of torture over ten years, it is reform model for this jurisdiction. If he does so, also required to conform with both the European he will have introduced legislation which com- Court of Human Rights jurisprudence on stan- mands all-party support. I urge him to take this dards of independence and impartiality in police opportunity to make genuine policing reform his conduct investigations and the Good Friday positive lasting legacy as Minister for Justice, Agreement provisions on equivalent human Equality and Law Reform. rights protections between jurisdictions. We welcome the Government’s recognition Mr. O’Dowd: I welcome the Bill and the that internal investigations and the Garda Com- debate which deal with the fundamental issue of plaints Board have proved totally inadequate. how the Garda operates and how the service can Both Governments’ commitments to establish an be improved and the service that we, as poli- independent complaints procedure date back to ticians, think ought to be provided. Listening to 1973. This issue must be resolved in the proper the last speaker I am delighted Sinn Fe´in is talk- way without further delay. We have an oppor- ing about human rights. Sinn Fe´in and its fellow tunity now to shape the policing of the future for travellers in the IRA have a dismal and appalling the people of Ireland and it is critical we get it human rights record North and South. right. I recognise and welcome that since Sinn Fe´in Mr. Quinn: The Deputy should not kid himself, made its submission to the Minister, he has they are only talking about it. moved away from his fundamentally flawed earl- ier Garda inspectorate model which wrongly Mr. O’Dowd: I am not kidding myself. This is combined investigatory with management func- the party that has a baseball bat in one hand and tions and, in many ways, replicated the flaws of an election poster in the other. It is time for them the current system. I acknowledge that he has to make that step from the gun and the baseball taken on board several of our recommendations. bat to democracy. If they do that it will be wel- However, the newly proposed ombudsman com- come and overdue. To sit in a democratic Parlia- mission still does not get it right. The Minister’s ment and mouth the words it has just mouthed is new model has also been criticised again by the insincere and hypocritical in the absence of such Human Rights Commission. It has raised the fol- a commitment and decision from the party and lowing concerns which we share. its different organisations, which are all the one. The appointment and dismissal processes are The issue of the Garda is one on which the still not fully independent and transparent. Com- Government campaigned strongly. In The Irish plaints can still be referred to the Garda Com- Times of the election date on www.ireland.com missioner without the complainant’s consent. Six the security correspondent wrote that the signifi- months, the general time limit for complaints, is cant difference between Fianna Fa´il and the 1007 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1008

[Mr. O’Dowd.] Garda opinion. I welcome that move which is Labour Party, Fine Gael and others was on the welcome also by the Garda who do a good job. key issue of the Garda, and the fact that Fianna One of the key issues in Ireland is the lack of Fa´il promised to recruit an extra 2,000 gardaı´ two CCTV in many towns and cities, although it is years ago. This was the first time that had been in some of the major cities. In regard to modern proposed and it was an important and significant policing, the Garda superintendent in Dundalk development. Obviously it was expected that made it clear that is what he wants. He was would happen within weeks or months. We are photographed in the newspaper with approxi- two years down the road and still waiting for a mately 16 screens behind him. People in Dundalk fundamental change in the number of gardaı´ on feel safe and secure, and rightly so, because they our streets in towns, cities and communities. It have CCTV. However, when one moves down was a con job by the Government in the general the road to Drogheda there is no such CCTV election campaign but we intend to hold it to that system in place. The Garda superintendent in promise. We will continue to push for more and Drogheda wants it also. When I tabled a Da´il a better resourced Garda capable of providing a question to our wonderful Minister for Justice, 21st century service to which the public is Equality and Law Reform asking what was hap- entitled. pening in regard to CCTV in Drogheda, the An issue that arose recently was the number of response was to wait until the end of 2006 and, if gardaı´ on duty on St. Patrick’s Day. We read in one was lucky, it might be available in 2007. the national newspapers prior to the day that There are 17 such applications before the Mini- more gardaı´ would be on duty in Dublin and in ster, but none of the towns is as large as cities and towns and everybody thought that was Drogheda, and all will have CCTV in place. great. When it was over we heard there were However, the Minister is lightening the burden more gardaı´ on duty on St. Patrick’s Day around on the Garda Sı´ocha´na by seeking a new method the country than ever before. However, when one of tendering for this equipment. tables a Da´il question and asks specifically about Let us get the facts right. The biggest town in County Louth and how many gardaı´ were on duty Ireland is Drogheda and it does not have CCTV in the towns of Drogheda, Dundalk and Ardee in place. Under this Government it will not have on St. Patrick’s Day one is told that information it until 2007. That is not acceptable. I have writ- ten to the Minister asking him to meet with a is not available, that it is a reserve function of the deputation from our community to make a strong Garda Commissioner to keep secret as an oper- case to him in person. CCTV has to be at the ational matter. heart of modern policing. Where is the transparency and openness on A change in policy is needed from the top on Garda policy? What PR stunt is being pulled by where and how we do our policing, particularly the Department of Justice, Equality and Law late at night. There is no point in having Garda Reform in the context of the number of gardaı´ on stations manned successfully from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. duty post the event? I do not want to know how when at night, particularly at weekends, there is many will be on duty tomorrow in Dublin city only a limited number of gardaı´ on duty. The or any of those operational matters which it is reality is that public disorder occurs mainly on important should not become public. After the Friday and Saturday nights. That is when we need event, surely the political system and the public a greater number of gardaı´ and their presence on are entitled to know if we are being protected or the streets. If one speaks to the Garda, some of if it is all rubbish and PR stunts from the Govern- its members express the fear that if there are ment and, particularly, the Minister for Justice, inadequate numbers on duty they will be person- Equality and Law Reform. I am appalled at the ally exposed to assault and attack which, sadly, lack of information on a basic fundamental issue has happened. of how many gardaı´ are on duty, where they are and what they are doing post the event. I hope Mr. Quinn: It is a legitimate fear. this will be covered in the Bill. I note the Bill refers to changed fundamental Mr. O’Dowd: It is a real fear. Why are more approaches between the Garda and the local gardaı´ not rostered for weekend and night duty? community. One of those changes is important Is it a question of the Government not being pre- and useful as it involves local authorities in local pared to pay the overtime? Clearly it is not pre- police issues. Recently in Dundalk an important pared to recruit the gardaı´. That is the nub of the public meeting was attended by the Garda and issue in regard to public order offences through- local authority members which was fully reported out the country. CCTV in not in place in enough on in the local newspapers. This was the first indi- towns and cities nor are there enough gardaı´ on cation of a new move between the Garda and the duty at night. community, led by the political system. This is the I refer to a photograph which appeared in the type of policing the people need in their local Drogheda Independent recently. It was of communities — transparency, openness and co- mounted gardaı´ on horses in the town. The next operation between the Garda and the com- week I looked at the Dundalk newspaper and saw munity. The local elected representatives are the the same photograph. I wondered whether the proper people to debate the issue and inform horse had galloped up and down during the week 1009 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1010 or if the horse was on a PR course around the board in a constructive manner. People must feel country. I welcome the fact that mounted police safe. I presume everyone in this House brings were on duty on at least one occasion in their car keys upstairs at night — unless one is Drogheda and that the same horse appeared in a Minister. In my constituency many people are Dundalk. I do not know what the facts are but I robbed at night. Thieves can remove double glaz- thought it was funny. I welcome it and I would ing panels, enter the house, take the car keys and like to see more. Let us be modern. drive off into the night. What is being done about Let us look at what has happened in America, this? People do not feel that their cars are safe New York and Los Angeles where the whole pol- outside the front door. That professional thieves ice organisation was changed to put them on duty are travelling from the cities to commit these on rota when one knows there will be trouble. crimes. As a benchmark of how this Government Why have a Garda station full of gardaı´ from 9 is not working and of the lack of proper policing, a.m. to 5 p.m. and few on duty at night? I ask the public to judge the effectiveness or When travelling to Dublin during the past few otherwise of the policing system and in particular days I have noticed an increase in the number of its level of resourcing by the Minister for Justice, gardaı´ on patrol on the motorway. That is good, Equality and Law Reform. People judge it helpful and constructive. While the Garda may be according to whether their car will still be there on duty the number of cameras for the purpose of in the morning. This crime is becoming endemic catching speeding motorists is inadequate. There and I ask the Minister of State to examine stra- ought to be hundreds more cameras on motor- tegies for dealing with it. One strategy would be ways and on the approaches to towns which are to have more gardaı´ on duty at night and to have high risk accident areas without the necessity to greater vigilance on the motorways in order to take a garda from other work to do that job. intercept the speeding thieves. This morning a wonderful gentleman suddenly My constituency colleagues and I are fully sup- decided to skip down the bus lane to get into portive of the Garda. The Garda Sı´ocha´na in town earlier, leaving the rest of us motorists County Louth are extremely helpful to us and will stranded in a queue, which has become longer help solve any problem in a constructive manner. since this Government took office. I suggest that I do not mean we interfere with the business of speed cameras be used on the bus lanes in place the Garda but rather we identify problems which of gardaı´. It would be a practical and cost-effec- have arisen in the community. The biggest prob- tive measure, even though I acknowledge the lem of all in our society is anti-social behaviour. worth of a Garda presence. I would like to see many more community police I wish to highlight the difference in Garda on duty in urban communities. I have put down numbers in different towns with which I am fam- a parliamentary question today to the Minister on iliar. I will not name the towns. One town may this matter. have no garda on street duty at 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. Poorer communities which experience unem- while in other towns many gardaı´ are on duty. ployment are also more likely to have a drugs Different policies regarding the number of gardaı´ problem. It is essential to have a better link on the beat seem to apply in different areas. I am between the people and the Garda. In Drogheda not suggesting that gardaı´ are moved from area a Garda sergeant has been nominated to deal A to area B but rather that the numbers in the with the issues arising in one part of the town. main towns should be augmented. People know the community gardaı´ and therefore The link between the community and the they respect them. When I was young everybody gardaı´ has been broken by that wonderful inven- knew the local gardaı´. They were leaders in the tion, the Garda car. The garda on the beat is a community and their families were known. It is key element. I noticed on a recent visit to Amer- too impersonal now and contact has been lost. I ica that police bicycle patrols are used. These are do not wish to hear people complaining that the cost-effective and efficient. I was a member of the Garda response to calls is slow or non-existent. Garda Sı´ocha´na and the exercise would have kept Part of the duties of the Garda Sı´ocha´na is to me slimmer. Modernisation in the form of a rapid build up strong links with the community. The response unit is required. More gardaı´ on the juvenile liaison officers have a positive interac- streets give a sense of security. tion with schools and young people. I was in Philadelphia at a waste management I welcome the Bill and look forward to the conference which was not a junket in the political Minister changing the operational procedures of sense. I noticed that at 6 p.m. all the major city the force and investing in better resources, partic- intersections had a police patrol in place. Every- ularly for the communities which most need this body knew they were there and it was a deterrent. support. I was aware of the efficient and low-key presence of the police on the streets of Philadelphia which Mr. Carey: Like other speakers, I welcome the is not apparent in Dublin or in other cities and Bill and I am pleased to have the opportunity to towns because gardaı´ are not doing those jobs. speak on Second Stage. Before dealing with the I question why the Garda is not provided with detail of the Bill, I wish to pay tribute to the more resources and why there is not a fundamen- Garda Sı´ocha´na. It has a very proud record of tal change in their operational methods. I urge service to the country since its foundation and it the Minister of State to take these points on has evolved into quite a modern and well- 1011 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1012

[Mr. Carey.] but the development of a very diversified developed police force. Some members have population. given great years of service to the force and some Garda recruitment policies should be modified have given their lives to protect us. A school col- so that the different community interests and eth- league of mine, Tony Hickey, who retired as nic groupings are allowed to contribute to polic- Assistant Commissioner a few weeks ago, was ing. For example, the requirement that gardaı´ one of the greatest policemen of our time. I wish must be competent in Irish must be reconsidered him a very long and happy retirement. in a thoughtful manner. I am reluctant to discard I listened to many speakers because I was Act- the Irish language requirement but such issues ing Chairman for some of the debate. I listened to must be examined if we are to have a police force Deputy Crowe extolling the virtues of the Patten that reflects all aspects of the community. report. I regard the Patten report as a very good We should discuss the provisions of the Bill in report. However, the Patten Commission was set a spirit of constructive appraisal of the Garda up to reorganise a fundamentally dysfunctional Sı´ocha´na. Our objective is to improve policing police force. To cut to the chase, if Sinn Fe´in and and we all want to facilitate the modification and Deputy Crowe are so enamoured of all the pro- fine-tuning of structures devised in different visions of the Patten Commission’s recommend- times and social conditions to suit the circum- ations, why then are they not members of the pol- stances of the new century. Several Members icing boards and of the district policing observed that emphasis is placed on different partnerships, of which they are such great fans? aspects of policing in different areas. There may To be frank, the Chief Constable and his manage- be significant emphasis on community policing in ment team has done a really good job. A police one locality, for example, because there is a force must have the confidence and the co-oper- senior garda who is driving that almost as a per- ation of the community. The PSNI is working sonal interest. Gardaı´ in another area might con- towards this goal and the Chief Constable is centrate on tackling drug abuse. We must devise doing a good job in achieving this. a mix of structures which will ensure a coherent form of policing that is fine-tuned to society’s The Garda Sı´ocha´na has been policing with the needs. consent and co-operation of the community in this Republic. I acknowledge that improvements In this context, it is important to note that this legislation is introduced not to undermine but need to be made, that deficiencies exist and that rather to underpin the Garda Sı´ocha´na and the reforms are required. It gives me no pleasure to work it carries out to protect our freedoms as listen to re-enactments of the Morris tribunal individuals and as a society. The Bill undoubtedly activities on night-time radio programmes or to contains the most comprehensive and possibly read about them in the newspapers. It is not ple- the most important legislative provisions on pol- asant to hear about miscarriages of justice which icing ever to come before this House. The import- arose due to inadequate or faulty Garda investi- ance of the legislation, its aims and functions gations or instances where the Garda has been at heighten the need to get it right and necessitate fault and has not been prepared to admit its the time we have taken to have a comprehensive failings. debate and to receive submissions from However, we are not comparing like with like. interested parties. The Garda Sı´ocha´na polices with the support of I compliment Dublin City Council and the the vast majority of people in the Republic. There Lord Mayor of Dublin, Councillor Michael Con- are models in parts of the United Kingdom and aghan, on the establishment of its commission on the United States which we can usefully consider. policing. The recommendations of that com- However, to suggest that everything proposed in mission will contribute to a further enlightenment Northern Ireland should be replicated in this in respect of the provisions of this Bill. I was in State is to miss the point. I urge Sinn Fe´in in the Ballymun earlier this week for a meeting of the strongest terms and with whatever authority I local safety forum at which the Lord Mayor out- might have in this House to join wholeheartedly lined his vision of policing and the interaction and unreservedly in policing in Northern Ireland. between local authorities and the Garda. This This would be one of the greatest confidence- consultation represented a model of best practice building measures it could make. in that it involved the Garda chief superintend- An issue that is constantly raised with me is ent, the superintendent, an inspector and a that of Garda numbers. Two places in which pol- sergeant from the Garda drugs squad, together ice numbers are tightly regulated and controlled with an assistant city manager, the local area are Northern Ireland and South Africa. I would manager, representatives of residents’ associ- hold neither of these models as example of good ations and delegates from the Health Service policing. There is no doubt Garda numbers must Executive. be increased and the projected expansion to The main recommendations of the Lord 14,000 is probably inadequate. I presume those Mayor’s commission have been well rehearsed involved in strategic management in the Garda elsewhere. The Minister has taken on board many and the Department of Justice, Equality and Law of them in the area of engaging with local auth- Reform are examining the census figures, which orities by giving them a say and inviting them to indicate not only a rapidly increasing population be partners in the development of a consensus 1013 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1014 policing arrangement in their communities. This Commissioner is being assigned new powers and is the way forward but it is important that we get responsibilities regarding the distribution of the this process right. A similar forum I attended in force, financial matters and civilian support staff. another locality last month turned out to be a These new powers are balanced by more compre- very unfocused discussion which lacked coher- hensive accountability measures, including the ence. In effect, it was a whingeing forum for establishment of a statutory audit committee with those present. independent members. Why does such a commit- One key difference between these two experi- tee not exist already? It should be a given in any ences was that the Ballymun meeting was organisation, be it a policing organisation or com- attended by the most senior representatives mercial body. Nonetheless, if we must set such responsible for the allocation of resources from provisions in stone to have a policing force in the local authority and the Garda. The other which we all can have confidence, let us go down meeting was attended by members of the excel- that route. I recall few enough examples of ques- lent community policing unit but nobody more tionable practices in terms of management or senior than the sergeant and inspector. The Mini- accountability. There may be examples from earl- ster should bear this in mind when framing statu- ier times. tory instruments and secondary provisions in the The most fundamental and welcome develop- Bill. It is important that we ensure the provisions ment in the Bill is in section 31. It provides for the in this regard are adequate if we are serious about establishment of joint policing committees with engaging local authorities and community Garda and local authority representation. I interests. referred to this already. This measure will prob- The Bill’s proposals reflect the outcome of a ably be the one that will win the confidence of review of the Garda Sı´ocha´na carried out under the public. the Government’s strategic management initiat- Many Members have referred to Garda visi- ive. In doing so, it aims for greater clarity, demo- bility. I do not want to quote extensively from the cratic accountability and transparency within the findings of the Lord Mayor’s commission on force. It is fair to say we are experiencing a period crime but some of the quotations from the sub- in which confidence within the Garda is dimin- missions of the focus groups that met the com- ished because of lack of transparency. The imple- mission are constructive. Many communities mentation of this Bill can effect a change in this reported that they are under-policed. They iden- regard provided it enjoys the goodwill of all those tified an apparent lack of interest on the part of involved. We can enact as many legislative pro- local gardaı´ in what is considered to be minor visions as we desire but without the support of the Garda authorities and staff representative crime. Some stated there was no visible police organisations, the three-legged stool of policing patrol in their area. The lack of a consistent vis- will not work. ible police presence in the community is a contin- ual complaint. The focus groups also contended The encouragement and receipt of submissions that the need for Garda foot patrols is a must. from interested parties over a period was an important element of the development of this People want to see a visible Garda presence on Bill. It is to be hoped that during the debate on the streets, both day and night, and believe a Committee Stage some further refinements will squad car driving around occasionally does not be possible. The Bill sets out for the first time in solve or prevent the problems. law the functions and objectives of the Garda. There is no doubt that the issue of Garda visi- The roles of and relationship between the Mini- bility is critical. I am not pretending that seeing ster and the Garda Commissioner are defined one or two gardaı´ will transform people’s percep- openly and transparently. For example, it pro- tion of the need for a proactive police force, but vides that the Minister is entitled to set policing I believe it makes a considerable difference. The priorities. In addition, it puts in place new and very fact that gardaı´ can be seen is important. comprehensive reporting requirements for cer- Many have adverted to the fact that it results in tain matters, including the plans of the Com- fewer groups congregating around shopping missioner for the year ahead and his or her centres, for example. It can influence the problem assessment of the previous year. of young and not-so-young people drinking in There is an argument that there should be an public, both day and night. There seems to be an independent Garda authority. The Minister has epidemic involving people racing around our contended that this would preclude this House’s parks and streets on micro-motorcycles and role as the forum to which policing is scrambler bikes. When people ring up a Garda 12 o’clock directly accountable. I am not certain station about this, they are told the gardaı´ can do I agree with that argument and hope nothing because a squad car is not available. This it might be possible to review it. It is possible for undermines people’s confidence in the Garda. this Parliament to have an oversight function in There is no doubt that there are examples of policing without being in any way restrictive in good practice by gardaı´. Deputy O’Dowd the negative sense. reminded me of the use of bicycles by gardaı´. This The Bill brings the management structures of initiative began in Tallaght and Clontarf and has the force into the 21st century, particularly in now been adopted elsewhere, including in my respect of staff appointments and reviews. The constituency. 1015 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1016

Mr. Quinn: It is very good. In my constituency of Dublin North-West there have been incidents of anti-social behaviour Mr. Carey: There is no doubt that it has made which caused serious problems. There is no doubt a considerable difference. That gardaı´ on bicycles that because of the lack of action by the estate can cross footpaths and go down alleyways means manager, Dublin City Council, and a lack of they can arrive at their destination without been engagement by the Garda, people have taken the spotted. One of the downsides of the use of very ultimate step of leaving the area. It is a pity. It colourful Garda vehicles in urban areas is that happens regularly that older people, many of they can be seen from a great distance. They are whom are widows, simply cannot cope with spotted before they come anywhere near the rowdy behaviour on their street. On one road in point of criminal activity and, by the time they particular, which has 26 houses, three requests arrive, the perpetrators are long gone. Address- have been made in the past month by residents ing this aspect of Garda visibility is acutely asking the local authority to buy back their important. houses so they can live out their older years in There is no doubt that there has been much peace and quiet in a more secure environment. development in co-operation with residential I compliment the Minister on introducing the bodies and communities to fight crime more Bill. I had intended to address the issues of the effectively. We started off on a bad footing with Garda ombudsman and inspectorate but, unfortu- anti-drugs marches and other such initiatives. In nately, I have run out of time. Perhaps there will some cases, it may have been a calculated objec- be another opportunity for me to ventilate some tive of the organisers to present themselves as an of my reservations on these issues. alternative policing force. However, we have sur- mounted this problem. Through good leadership Mr. Quinn: I was pleasantly surprised to be in in the Dublin metropolitan area and through the the House when Deputy Crowe from Sinn Fe´in work of successive assistant commissioners, we delivered a panegyric on the Patten report. The have made good progress. We have recognised Minister of State was not present to hear it. that crime and anti-social behaviour need to be I felt as if I was sitting in the Reichstag in 1930 dealt with by society as a whole. We do the police listening to a member of Hitler’s Nazi Party prais- a great disservice by lumbering upon them ing the contribution of the Jewish community to responsibility for everything dysfunctional in German culture over the previous century. The society. level of hypocrisy and cant he enunciated, in the The level of co-operation must be enhanced. course of which he conceded that Garda Jerry Society’s problems will not be solved by greater McCabe made a positive contribution to policing policing but would certainly be reduced by it. while being murdered by members of the Sinn There are examples of good practice. The crime Fe´in organisation — otherwise known as the Pro- diversion projects have been in existence for a visional IRA — was a democratic de´nouement long time and have been very low-key but they such as I have not experienced in a long time. I are now well-integrated into the youth service. bring it to the attention of Members who were It is a pity people talk about anti-social behav- not here at the time and refer them to the written iour as if everybody is involved in it and as if record in case they do not believe me. every young person on the street walking in a In principle I commend this measure which has group of five or six is guilty of it, whatever it been a long time coming and contains some posi- might be. It is uncomfortable to have a group of tive elements but does not go far enough. One of seven to ten teenagers playing football on one’s the great achievements of the new State in the street or leaning against one’s garden wall but, 1920s was to introduce unarmed “civic guards”, from my experience in youth work, I note that as my mother called them, against the back- the vast majority of them are only up to what ground of the politicisation of the RIC as an youngsters generally get up to, namely, talking instrument of an oppressive State prior to 1920, rather loudly, playing rather loudly—— and during the War of Independence and the Civil War. Many people perceived the RIC as an Mr. Quinn: They could be up to much worse. embodiment of armed state terrorism. One cannot praise highly enough all the people Mr. Carey: They could be up to an awful lot who made that a reality. Deputy Costello cited worse. There is an onus on the Government to Commissioner Michael Staines, the first Garda provide creative and constructive alternatives for Commissioner, “The Garda Sı´ocha´na will suc- young people. To be fair, it is beginning to do so. ceed, not by force of arms or numbers, but by Alternatives include all-weather soccer or foot- their moral authority as servants of the people.” ball pitches, skateboard parks and youth clubs This quote also features on our policy document which they can use should they wish to do so. It is of 2000. The perception and wisdom behind that important that we continue to invest in our youth observation, uttered so many years ago, is as rel- services so the young will have alternatives to evant today as it was then. anti-social behaviour. If they do not avail of the On occasion I have had to work closely with alternatives, it is fair enough to come down hard members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na whom I admire upon them with a series of community-based as individuals and as an organisation. I admire the sanctions. way in which they have consolidated their own 1017 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1018 working arrangements and shown solidarity with because the board of the Industrial Development one another, through support systems such as Authority is responsible for the operation of the their credit union, medical scheme and sporting authority its existence in some way diminishes the facilities. This is testimony to an extraordinary accountability or reporting relationship between level of energy, skill and creativity which has the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- endowed their members and the wider ment with this House. That comparison reveals community. the weakness of the argument by the Minister for My criticism is constructive rather than Justice, Equality and Law Reform. denunciatory. Of all the institutions of State the The authority would have a broader social Garda Sı´ocha´na is the only one that has not been composition and a different relationship with the significantly reformed since 1923-24. We have Garda Sı´ocha´na from that of the Department. It reformed political parties, amended the Consti- would therefore be able to say many things that tution and overhauled different areas of society. need to be said to the Garda Sı´ocha´na in private This Bill attempts to go part of the way to renew at a monthly board meeting. The revelations of the Garda Sı´ocha´na but it does not go far enough. the Morris tribunal show that all is not well in the The Bill contains two core elements, the creation Garda Sı´ocha´na. I regret that the Minister has not of an ombudsman and an inspectorate. taken up the proposal we and others made for a I do not agree with Deputy Carey that the Garda authority in 2000. Patten report was intended for a different kind of Ordinary law-abiding citizens experience hor- social institution. Chris Patten brought together a ror at the prospect of making a complaint to the group of internationally respected consultants Garda. For example, recently I received a tele- and authorities in the area of policing, including phone call from a constituent in his late 60s a person deeply involved in the reorganisation of whose son had got into trouble with the Garda. the New York Police Department, and a Member He said his son was no saint and probably was at of the Oireachtas, Senator Maurice Hayes. Mr. fault in this incident. The gardaı´ beat up his son Patten had varied political experience, having and when he went to complain about this he been Governor of Hong Kong and prior to that a could not find anyone with whom he could talk member of the British Cabinet. in the local Garda station. There was no one The report contained 175 recommendations of available to sit down and discuss what happened, which between ten and 15 related to the peculiari- even when he was prepared to accept that his son ties of the divided society of Northern Ireland. At had contributed to the late-night fracas. Instead least 150 of the recommendations were con- his complaint resulted in a series of summonses sultancy advice for what constitutes good policing and charges against his son. This man, who practice in a modern state. We need good polic- attempted to go to the complaints board, got ing practice because bad policing practice is syn- absolutely no satisfaction whatsoever. However, onymous in the minds of many with oppression to go back to my first point, his sense of the posi- by a “police state”. tive relationship he felt he had with the local Citizens must have a sense of comfort, owner- gardaı´ had been forever irreparably damaged. If ship and equality with their local police. In gen- we do not reform radically and ensure the pro- eral, that has been our experience but as our cesses of resources and transparency are provided society changes that relationship will change too. for the new inspectorate and complaints system, The police must respond to reinstate the balance the erosion of that relationship, which has com- that existed hitherto. This Bill will not achieve menced, will continue to do great damage to the that. fabric of our society. I urge the Minister to elab- The Labour Party wish to see a Garda auth- orate on Committee Stage how he intends the ority included in the Bill. This should comprise provisions of the complaints procedure to representatives of civic society, drawn either by function. nomination from this House or through the social I have some reservations about the ombuds- partners but in an objective manner. For man structure. I like the idea of it being a three example, An Bord Pleana´la has been depoliti- person body rather than a single individual. cised and the Minister no longer appoints its There is a certain strength in that, even though members. our proposal was for a single ombudsman. Unless The relationship between the Garda and the it has the resources and objectivity to investigate Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform complaints in a manner similar to Nuala O’Loan is not sufficiently open, comprehensive or plural- in Northern Ireland, it will not restore the sense ist to restore the balance of trust between the of trust which is necessary in Ireland to get the Garda Sı´ocha´na and the citizen. There are his- kind of relationship citizens, the State and the toric reasons for that. The Minister argued in the gardaı´ as an organisation need. For example, if other House, and Deputy Carey repeated the the structures that exist in Northern Ireland were argument today, that because he is accountable transposed to here, when the unfortunate inci- to this House for the police force the establish- dent occurred in Abbeylara — it was an unfortu- ment of an authority alongside him, the Com- nate incident for all concerned — the police auth- missioner and the operational force would dimin- ority in Northern Ireland would have arrived on ish that reporting relationship. The logic of that, the scene and preserved it independently of the when carried to its conclusion, is to suggest that local gardaı´, which did not happen. There must 1019 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1020

[Mr. Quinn.] can be pooled? There may be reasons of natural be operational independence if the ombudsman justice and legal requirement which would render structure is to be effective. I hope the Minister that suggestion non-viable. For people like me, will outline precisely how he proposes to do that. and others, who have some management experi- The second area to which I want to refer is ence of examining different operations, it appears management efficiency, that is, the access we there are many practices in the Garda that need have to the gardaı´ and the gardaı´ have to society. to be addressed. The wage structure is distorted Perhaps the Minister of State will correct my in that the basic salary of a garda is quite low but interpretation if I am incorrectly informed. My the take-home income is augmented substantially understanding is that when the Garda Sı´ocha´na by a whole set of provisions, allowances, overtime was established, the Dublin Metropolitan Police rates and so on. This is all fine and dandy when organisational structure was effectively butt- one is working, but when one retires, one’s pen- jointed to the RIC provincial structure across the sion is based on the basic salary, which is far less rest of the State, and the number of Garda attractive. Perhaps it is time for a major review stations in the Dublin area, which provide a 24- of that structure so that the flexibility of working hour, seven days a week service, has not changed practices, which is clearly required, could be since then. obtained. The cost of running a 24-hour, seven days a The third point I would make on that aspect of week service is enormous and extremely inef- policing is similar to the point made earlier by ficient. Dublin South East does not need six Deputy O’Dowd, namely, the need to examine Garda stations within five kilometres of each the rostering structure. Does the timetable have other, open 24 hours, seven days a week. These to remain as it was 30, 40 or 50 years ago in light stations were provided at a time when the of the patterns of behaviour, particularly at week- gardaı´’s mobility was determined by how fast ends. As many as 2,000 people could be in they could cycle a bike. It is no longer necessary Camden Street at 3 a.m., many of whom may be to provide a 24-hour, seven days a week service. obnoxious, unruly, drunk and terrifying to any There is a need for a presence in the areas where young garda or couple of gardaı´ who may be sent the current Garda stations exist, but many people to try to stop some raucous developing into a just go to the Garda station to get an application major incident. This aspect of policing would ter- form or a passport form signed, which is a nine rify me. If there is occasional over-reaction by to five type service. This service does not have individual gardaı´ to threatening circumstances, to be provided on Saturday and Sunday. Having while I do not condone it, I can certainly under- spoken in the past to two Garda Commissioners, stand it. There is nothing more frightening than there are great internal difficulties in getting man- agement and work practice changes within the such a large crowd, particularly at that hour of Garda. If a Garda authority had the capability the morning. to discuss these matters, many of the necessary Is there a need to maintain the existing levels reforms in terms of the perception of the gardaı´ of rostering and patterns of deployment of gardaı´, would be capable of being implemented and which were established in a much different time, would have a positive effect. Many of the person- to deal with patterns of social behaviour at week- nel who are tied up servicing these Garda stations ends, not just in Dublin but throughout the coun- could be out on the beat. try, as Deputy O’Dowd said in regard to Is there a need for gardaı´ to retire at 57 years Drogheda and Dundalk? I do not think so. I do of age? On what basis is that positive? What was not know if the Bill will give the Minister and the original reason for gardaı´ being required to the Commissioner the power to bring about these retire at 57 years of age? Given the collective wis- changes. A Garda authority would have the capa- dom these people have accumulated in the Garda bility to raise these issues. Perhaps in the comfort force, including their knowledge of their local of a dialogue between it and senior Garda man- community, why are they forced to retire at 57 agement, it could put forward proposals that when they could be retained? They could move would bring about the changes that are clearly to a nine to five type operation. They could needed. become community gardaı´ and carry out many of I support Deputy Carey who praised my col- the duties that can be done by someone with that league and friend, the Labour Lord Mayor of wisdom and experience. The cost of putting one Dublin, Michael Conaghan, for his initiative in on pension at the age of 57 is expensive. Someone setting up the commission on policing in Dublin of that age is likely to live much longer, because and for taking the comments and submissions of they may take up a second career, than someone people from across the city. It is a very good who retires at 60 or 65. I would like the Minister report which I commend to the Department, the to address why these gardaı´, with their level of Commissioner and the Garda Sı´ocha´na. The expertise and experience, cannot be kept within report has many insights, some of which are not the service. comfortable to hear. However, these are the Questions must be asked about the number of insights we must listen to the most whatever our gardaı´ who are tied up in courts for whole ses- organisation or walk of life. Michael Conaghan sions. Is there a better way of dealing with this and his team have done a particularly good job in issue? Is there a way in which this garda resource putting together a report which reflects the con- 1021 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1022 cerns of the people of this State at the turn of the justice and policing system it needs and the century. deserves. I welcome the extensive consultation There is a serious mismatch between the process which preceded the introduction of the necessity to have good community policing and Bill and, in particular, the input from Garda man- the way in which the community garda is treated agement and associations, the Human Rights by middle and senior management within the Commission and the Joint Oireachtas Committee Garda force. This issue arose at a Labour on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s parliamentary party discussion some weeks ago. Rights which contributed in no small way to this For example, there is an impression that the com- legislation. munity garda is moved on once he or she gets to The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law know the people in their locality, that there is no Reform has time and again demonstrated his and accumulation of knowledge, wisdom or expertise the Government’s commitment to the people. His and that the job is regarded as temporary to move work rate, steadfastness, legislative programme in and out of on to something else. I would like to and forthrightness are leading to the greatest ever know if that is an incorrect impression. Perhaps a reform of the justice system. Yet he still takes coherent management case could be made for a time out to demonstrate his obvious interest in permanent section of community policing within improving citizens’ quality of life and visited my the Garda Sı´ocha´na. It would be a wider special- constituency last week. ised group than the special detective units and The Minister is proceeding with the expansion others. People could make a career in community of the Garda Sı´ocha´na, but is acutely aware of policing within the force, not necessarily moving the greater demands for Garda resources and has from one set of duties to another. restated his confidence that the Commissioner, The Garda Sı´ocha´na will provide professional who is responsible for the distribution of person- argument and statistics to disprove my next nel across the country, will ensure that places observation. The sight of gardaı´ on the street pro- such as Longford will continue to benefit from vides a level of comfort for many people who do increased manpower in line with ever growing not need the gardaı´ and are not at risk or being demands. robbed. This is particularly true for those who The Minister also took the opportunity last feel vulnerable, which is half the population of week to review plans for the decentralisation of this country. Most women feel vulnerable on fre- the Irish Prison Service and I welcome his quent occasions when out on the street or on reaffirmation of his Department’s commitment to their own. Most men find this hard to hear, but I the programme and his message to those who invite them to talk and listen to women. Seeing a suggest that the commitment to roll-out the pro- garda on the street provides a level of comfort. It ject is not there. The Department now has control is irrelevant whether one needs the services of the of the relevant site and is about to tender for the garda. Seeing a fire escape in a building also pro- contract. Some 170 people will work in the new vides a level of comfort, but how many people headquarters, attached cre`che, stores and logis- have ever had to use one? However, it is comfor- tics section. ting to know that the provision and safeguard is I also welcome the progress made by the Mini- there. ster with regard to the Longford courthouse. The entire county is delighted that the project is going An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should well, that the adjoining buildings have been conclude. demolished and that one of the finest buildings in Longford is being conserved for its original Mr. Quinn: The deployment of gardaı´, the role purpose. of community police and the relationship I am grateful to the Garda Sı´ocha´na. No matter between our modern society, with its increasingly what discussions we have regarding reforms, varied cultural mix of people from different back- accountability and transparency, I still have the grounds and countries, should be reflected in the utmost faith in and respect for our police force. structure of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. There should be This State was born out of conflict and civil war a restored relationship between gardaı´ and the and we are indebted to every person who has public at large. This relationship has been served as a garda since its foundation, putting damaged, and this Bill goes some way to repair- their lives on the line in its defence. This State ing it. However, it does not go far enough and the would not have survived without the service and Minister should rethink some of his proposals. protection of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. I had a very positive experience growing up Ms Sexton: I welcome the opportunity to speak beside the old Garda barracks in Longford and on this important legislation. This Bill replaces this experience is true for the vast majority of our various Garda Acts dating back 80 years while citizens. It is important that brave and dedicated providing the reforms necessary for the efficient members of the force hear us state this fact. and effective operation of a modern police force Our discussions of this and other Bills in the for a modern Ireland and is cognisant of our ever- House must not lead to the demoralisation of any changing society. honest serving member of the Garda. They must I congratulate the Minister for his commitment know that we admire and appreciate their work, to legislative reform to ensure that Ireland has dedication and commitment to the State in a 1023 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1024

[Ms Sexton.] from the public before instituting an inves- society that is more aggressive and less respectful tigation. of authority. I reiterate, contrary to spurious claims of gardaı´ Last Monday, one such dedicated garda appre- investigating gardaı´, that the Bill does not pro- hended a person in the process of robbing \5,000 vide for that. Irrespective of the method chosen from a post office. He received a knife wound to by the commission to investigate complaints, the stomach but successfully detained the thief ranging from the most serious allegations, includ- and the money was recovered. We must acknowl- ing possible criminal offences, to those at the edge the courage and dedication of members of lower end of the scale, including breaches of dis- the force when proposing legislation. cipline, it will retain total control and direction As a former local authority member I warmly over the whole proceedings. I stress it will retain welcome the provisions in this Bill for the total control. Furthermore, the commission will involvement of local councillors and elected rep- also be able to enter into arrangements with resentatives in dealing with specific local issues. members of other police forces or any other The issue of policing at local level on local issues bodies to engage police officers or other persons has been contentious and it is gratifying that the on a temporary basis to assist it in carrying out Minister has taken those views on board. Its its investigations. inclusion in the Bill will have a fundamental Part 5 reforms existing accountability arrange- impact on public confidence in community ments. Again, this is most welcome. In a time policing. when our democracy and the political institutions There is an impression that the provisions in of the State are topics of contemporary discussion the Bill are merely a duplication of provisions among the public and media, we must ensure pertaining in other countries, with particular ref- there is a proper separation of powers. We must erence made to the UK. It is inevitable that cer- also ensure that those charged with oversight of tain similarities will exist with regard to policies the force have correct information at their implemented in other countries. It would be neg- disposal. ligent not to study successful models prior to Part 5 provides for the establishment of an drafting Bills and amendments. However, the independent Garda Sı´ocha´na inspectorate as a measures proposed in this Bill reflect the specific means of improving democratic accountability for situation in Ireland and do not, as suggested, the actions of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. The main merely replicate those of other countries. functions of the inspectorate will be to ensure Ireland has a single national police force that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law responsible for all policing matters and the intelli- Reform of the day will have objective infor- gence and security functions relating to the secur- mation on which to base comments made before ity of the State. Members have borne this in mind the Houses of the Oireachtas. That is only right in their deliberations and debate on the Bill. and proper. This will have a welcome and positive A review of the Garda Sı´ocha´na took place impact on the relationship between the Execu- under the Government’s strategic management tive, the Legislature and the justice system, as initiative, and Part 2 of the Bill sets out provisions well as the ombudsman commission. in this regard. I welcome the clarification of the The inspectorate proposed in this Bill will take role and objectives of the Garda Sı´ocha´na and a thematic approach to policy issues. Standards, the definition of its relationship with the Minister practice and performance will be benchmarked to and Government of the day. comparable international policing experiences. Two other elements of the Bill, namely, the This can only be welcomed by all Members of the mechanisms for dealing with complaints against House. The key objectives of the inspectorate will members of the force and the means of improving be to ensure and promote efficiency and effec- democratic accountability for their actions, have tiveness in the Garda Sı´ocha´na and also to pro- clearly drawn much attention. Parts 3 and 4 will vide advice and support to the Minister. It is com- provide welcome reform of complaints pro- mon sense that the Department with a statutory cedures against members of the force. It estab- oversight role in regard to the Garda Sı´ocha´na, lishes a new independent body, the Garda Sı´och- namely, the Department of Justice, Equality and a´na ombudsman commission, to replace the Law Reform, is empowered by knowledge. existing complaints board. It is the duty of this The Bill contains provision for significant House to do all it can to ensure citizens have the reform of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. We must not utmost confidence in those in whom we entrust underestimate the duty upon us when exercising extraordinary powers. In light of this, I welcome our power in this regard. It is fundamental to the the provisions of the Bill. It is clear that the cur- security and proper democratic functioning of rent system does not command the full confi- this State, yet the fundamental point remains that dence of the public in light of recent inquiries. It members of the public must have total confidence is imperative for gardaı´ that this be addressed. It in the transparency and accountability of the is welcome that the ombudsman commission will force we empower to police them. It is for this be able to act on its own initiative in cases or on reason that I welcome and endorse this Bill. a referral from the Commissioner or the Minister. It is a positive development that the commission Mr. Connolly: I extend a welcome to this Bill will not have to wait for a complaint to emanate but not without some misgivings and reservations. 1025 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1026

The Garda Sı´ocha´na has served this nation gardaı´ and pass on information to them that they extremely well as an unarmed Garda force over consider relevant. the past 83 years since the foundation of this I live in a Border constituency and crime, State. It has a proud record of service to the particularly cross-Border crime, is rife there. The people since the formative years of the State Garda and the PSNI know the offenders involved when its future was anything but assured. in stealing and other criminal activity but unless The introduction of this legislation at the outset the offenders are caught in the act of stealing or of this century is particularly timely and appro- in the possession of stolen goods, little or nothing priate since it is generally accepted that Garda can be done about it. Special Garda task forces reform is a necessity given the changing circum- have been assigned to these Border groups but it stances of Ireland today. In the past, a famous is well nigh impossible to apprehend them. They garda used to patrol Baggot Street and dispense are basically opportunists who walk past a car and his own form of justice. Many people welcomed if they see a key in the ignition, they hop into it that. It was an effective form of garda patrol but and drive it across the Border. They will generally today we cannot have the luxury of a garda find a mobile number of the car owner and will patrolling the way that garda used to patrol Bag- contact him or her and demand money for the got Street some 30 years ago. safe return of the car. Such incidents have The force is seriously undermanned and there happened. is unfinished business in terms of the recruitment There was an incident where a four-wheel- of an additional 2,000 gardaı´ promised in the 2002 drive jeep was stolen and driven across the general election and in the 2002 programme for Border. Money was to be delivered for its safe Government. Promises were made at that time return and when the amount handed over was not and the people expected that extra gardaı´ would correct, the criminal almost drove the people who be recruited. The Garda expected that additional handed over the money off the road in an effort gardaı´ would come on stream and hopes were to point out that a certain amount of money was demanded and the owner was not prepared to risen only to be dashed. The promise of an extra pay up. 2,000 gardaı´ indicates that the force is under- staffed by 18%. That must have a serious effect Some members of the public almost present on a plate an opportunity for criminals to steal by on morale and on the force’s ability to man differ- leaving a door unlocked or a key in the ignition ent events, police towns and be at the beck and of a car. The public must co-operate to a greater call of the public at all times. Even if the number extent with the Garda. Gardaı´ need the assistance of gardaı´ were doubled, that would not cure all of the public. That cannot be stressed enough. the ills in society because it has changed. The We have got into the habit of minding our own behaviour of society has changed dramatically in business. There was a time when people would recent years. What people feel they can get away know that if a stranger came to an area, he or she with has also changed. would watched or if a person called to his or her Another factor that cannot be overlooked is neighbour, he or she would be told that A, B or the notion of parental control. Parents have a role C had called to his or her house. That time is to play. More often than not, if a garda knocks gone. We do not know what is happening in the on the door of a family home concerning a child lives of our next door neighbours. Society has who has misbehaved, it is more likely that the gone that way. garda will get a barracking rather than the child. Society should be more aware of people who While there should be a balance, gardaı´ should might call to neighbours’ houses, particularly have the support of the public which they do not neighbours living on their own, because there are always have. Effectively, much of the time gardaı´ many chancers and criminals on the move who try to perform their duties while looking over are impossible to catch. They can move about their shoulders. A garda may wonder whether to with impunity and call to a house and if they find arrest a child for doing A, B or C or may think somebody home, they will come up with a silly that if he or she does so, his or her life will not excuse such as looking for a dog. Society and be worth living. That is not a good way of doing neighbours have a major role to play in this business. regard. We also have the concept of neighbourhood While I know the Garda comes in for criticism watch. When driving through a community area over various matters, the criminal has a new way a number of years ago one would see signs for of operating. A criminal is more likely to inform the neighbourhood watch scheme. I am not sure a garda of his rights than vice versa. While the that the scheme is as effective as it should be. It Garda might know an individual is guilty, until he is based on the notion of neighbours looking out is caught in the act it is impossible to do anything. for each other. The signposts are there but that This reflects the type of society in which we live. does not mean action is being taken. There are The Garda needs the public’s help in this regard, displayed to warn off criminals and to let them which cannot be underestimated. know they are being watched, but I doubt if the Current recruitment appears to be barely suf- scheme is as effective as it should be. Members ficient to replace those retiring from the force, of the public have a role to play in that regard. which is another bone of contention. I know of They must be additional eyes and ears for the many gardaı´, who are much younger than I am, 1027 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1028

[Mr. Connolly.] icing Board. However, having an equivalent auth- who qualify for retirement but do not necessarily ority here seems unacceptable. want to retire. As morale is low in the force and Appointments in the upper ranks of the Garda because they know they must retire at a particular are still carried out on a political basis, which can age, some gardaı´ decide to leave and the level of be seen as a type of political patronage. For many early retirement can become a problem. We are years the allocation of State briefs was done on a losing some very experienced members of the political basis and was finally taken out of the Garda, particularly detectives who have built up hands of politicians in the late 1970s when the last a role and are well respected in society. They gravy train had rolled out of the four goldmines. might have just reached the pinnacle in the per- Subsequently, judicial appointments were partly formance of their duties and are told they have de-politicised by their transfer to a commission done their service and must go, which is very frus- which submits a shortlist to Government for final trating. In addition to recruiting an additional selection. Similarly, senior Garda officer appoint- 2,000 gardaı´ we should also consider retaining the ments, from superintendent up to Commissioner, very experienced gardaı´ in the force. The haem- are still in the gift of the Government of the day, orrhage taking place is not good. If the chief which is hardly satisfactory. While I do not cast executives of a business were forced to retire at any aspersions on the individuals appointed, it the age that gardaı´ retire, many companies would does not send the right signal. A Garda authority have gone to the wall. This matter needs to be should have exclusive responsibility for such revisited. appointments, thus bringing real change in the To combat today’s crime levels and the chang- manner of appointment and promotion in the ing nature of crimes, the Garda needs to be fully upper ranks of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. Appoint- resourced with state-of-the-art technology and ments and promotions throughout the force retraining may also be required. In the past should be free of political influence and should gardaı´ were trained in observational skills. be made independently, transparently and purely However, gardaı´ now need many more new skills on merit and overall suitability. In legal circles it and some of them may need to be retrained to has long been the perception that young barris- deal with today’s criminal. ters and solicitors needed to align themselves The establishment of the Garda ombudsman with one of the main political parties to progress commission receives two cheers. An office along in their chosen calling. Rightly or wrongly, this is the lines of the Police Ombudsman for Northern a general perception, and we have all seen promi- Ireland would be less unwieldy. Ms O’Loan has nent examples in the main political parties. discharged her duties with equanimity and no It is perceived that a garda needs to be well little skill, and has engendered considerable connected to particular Garda officers to progress respect from all sides in the North. The Police on the promotion ladder to the pinnacle of the Ombudsman for Northern Ireland has proven to force. By placing such promotions in the hands be most effective in investigating police com- of a Garda authority, the Minister would strike a plaints and building public confidence. It is gener- major blow for the concept of promotion solely ally perceived that the Garda complaints board on the grounds of ability. The notion that pro- has had problems with accountability and there motions were carried out on political grounds was a deficit in public confidence. I do not believe would also be dispelled, with a consequent boost an ombudsman commission of three individuals for morale within the force. A Garda authority is necessary when the Northern ombudsman has would also be in a position to organise trans- had such an impeccable record since her appoint- parently independent interview boards to provide ment. However, it is welcome that the new for promotions within the force at levels lower ombudsman commission will enjoy complete than superintendent. It is here that the indepen- independence from the Garda in that none of its dent nature of such a Garda authority would members will be gardaı´, and this should help gain come into its own with wide representation from public confidence. There will no longer be con- various community organisations. cern over complaints against the Garda being The proposals for volunteer Garda reserve investigated by gardaı´. members or “generic gardaı´” are ill-considered One of the functions will be to investigate cer- and not fully thought out. Considering the tain practices, policies and procedures of the amount of training over three years that applies Garda Sı´ocha´na, thus ensuring that no lower- to full-time gardaı´ in the Garda training college, ranking garda is made a scapegoat. This practice it would be impossible for these part-timers to happened in the past and was not healthy. It is perform full-time policing duties. What criteria evident that the provisions for the ombudsman would be laid down for them and how would they commission have been influenced by the recom- relate to the public? How would they be selected mendations of the Patten report. A major recom- and resourced? Would the Garda have any mendation of that report was the establishment responsibility to the family of a volunteer who of a police authority. This could have been was injured or even killed in the line of duty? adopted to advantage here by the establishment We have had occurrences of Garda recruits being of a Garda authority. In the all-party negotiations killed in the past having been brought out of in the North, strenuous efforts have been made Templemore at short notice and one must ask to get Sinn Fe´in to join the Northern Ireland Pol- what would happen in the event of a lack of train- 1029 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1030 ing. Would their medical and other bills be taken not to stand back, point a finger at the Garda and care of in a period of protracted illness or injury? argue it must do more. Instead, we must ask what I submit that the proposals for volunteer gardaı´ we can do to make life easier for gardaı´ and assist amount to an attempt to recruit replacements for them in the performance of their functions. the 2,000 extra gardaı´ that the Government has failed so far to deliver. The period of training Mr. Mulcahy: With the permission of the cannot be overlooked. Putting in people who are House, I will share time with Deputy Tony not properly trained or resourced does not send Dempsey. the right message and would create a second-rate member of the Garda. To whom would they be Acting Chairman (Deputy Costello): Is that accountable? If they only perform a few hours’ agreed? Agreed. duty per week, it would be necessary to sign up many more than 2,000 to provide adequate cover- Mr. Mulcahy: I welcome this timely and neces- age, which would not be good for the morale of sary Bill. I have full confidence in the members the force. Why should we believe that 15,000 or of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. As a person who has been 20,000 suitable recruits would volunteer for a pol- in public life since 1995, my experience, virtually ice force? The spirit of volunteering is hardly at all times, has been that the gardaı´ whom I have alive and well in post-Celtic tiger Ireland to that met in the discharge of my duties have acted with extent. Many issues remain to be teased out. This diligence and integrity, on many occasions, to proposal was tossed out without a full exploration their own detriment. We are lucky to have men or discussion of its consequences with the proper and women of the highest calibre in the Garda. authorities. It is always healthy to discuss pro- The question which arises, however, is not the posals of this nature with representative bodies, integrity, general ability and dedication of indi- in this case the Garda Representative Associ- vidual members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na but the ation, which have useful contributions to make. management, direction, policy, philosophy and Before appointing a new force without adequate effectiveness of the force as an organisation. We training it would be useful to listen to the views must make this distinction. and ideas of members of the force, and I under- There are caveats to my first statement. As stand this did not take place. with all sections of society, not all gardaı´ have With a current complement of 12,000 Garda covered themselves in glory. In every walk of life, members, Ireland’s ratio of police to 100,000 there will always be people who do not adhere to population is still well below the European aver- the highest standards. Like many others, I read age. The raw fact is that we do not the first interim report of the Morris tribunal 1 o’clock have the necessary numbers. Many which deals with the explosives module. It opens rural barracks are being closed down, one’s eyes to learn that in one part of our island specifically in my area where stations have hith- Garda practices were not of the highest standard. erto been well manned. This development has not I commend Mr. Justice Morris for the excellent gone unnoticed among criminals who are well work he is doing. The position in which Mr. aware that the only available police resource in McBrearty finds himself demands attention. large areas of north Monaghan at night is a single Although I am not necessarily calling for a pre- Garda car. cedent to be made in his case, the House must Gardaı´ must think long and hard before appre- recognise that the McBrearty module is the cor- hending a person committing a minor public nerstone of the Morris tribunal, which will find it order offence. They must consider the time, difficult to continue with the level of probative resources and effort required to take the person excellence required, evident in the explosives in question into custody, given that no gardaı´ will module, unless Mr. McBrearty is provided with be available to look after the needs of the com- proper legal representation. I understand the munity while the case of the individual in ques- position in which the Minister finds himself and I tion is being processed. Criminals make hay, so am aware the matter has been the subject of a to speak, during the periods when the Garda is High Court decision. For this reason, I do not under-resourced. It is common in my area for wish to be pre-emptive as there may be good crime to be committed during daylight hours policy reasons for the Government’s inability to when Garda resources are stretched. These prob- assist Mr. McBrearty at this stage. lems must be addressed. Nevertheless, some mechanism must be found With rising levels of violent crime and a grow- to address the issue because if the current module ing culture of drink, drugs and violence, the of the tribunal were to continue without proper promised 2,000 additional gardaı´ are needed representation for Mr. McBrearty, questions more than ever. The Government has barely two regarding the fairness of its hearings could well years left in which to implement its commitment, arise under the European Convention of Human which means an additional 1,000 gardaı´ will have Rights. I do not wish to interfere in the process. to be recruited this year and next if it is to keep Mr. Justice Morris is doing a good job and is con- faith with the public. My reservations notwith- strained by the fact that he must implement the standing, I intend to support the Bill. law. While we must respect the decision of the I trust the Minister will take on board some of High Court, the Government needs to closely my suggestions. I appeal to members of the public examine this matter. I apologise for digressing but 1031 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1032

[Mr. Mulcahy.] involvement by local communities with magis- debate on legislation on the Garda Sı´ocha´na is an trates and local policing. For some reason, when appropriate forum for placing on record my views we adopted our model in the 1920s and 1930s, all on the matter. local involvement was eradicated. As an aside, we While the vast majority of members of the also had real meaningful local involvement in the Garda Sı´ocha´na are of outstanding integrity, the health sector, in local health committees until force as a whole and its effectiveness, training and they were abolished in the 1970s. At present, we so forth need to be scrutinised. When the spot- again see the evolution of a superstructure system light has been placed on the Garda, it has been without the real involvement of local communi- found wanting in several areas and continues to ties. I welcome the section which will involve face major challenges. In recent days, for local authorities. Local authority members are in example, several Deputies have raised the issue the best position of anyone to know what is hap- of anti-social behaviour, about which, as a pening in local authority estates. Councillors are Deputy, former councillor and Lord Mayor of the people who genuinely know what is going on Dublin, I am well aware. In addition, the Garda at street level. It will be of enormous benefit to must contend with organised crime, white collar have them, along with officials from the county, crime, international drug and people trafficking city and urban councils, politicians and police gangs and crime cartels. It is not equipped, officers sitting together. trained, organised or engineered to face up to Section 41 is very important. It pertains to the these challenges with the same degree of pro- liability of members of the Garda Sı´ocha´na while fessionalism as the criminals and must go further performing their duty. I am not certain that this in pursuing a vision of excellence. I welcome the is covered by the Bill. I do not believe that the legislation in so far as it will advance this process. Garda Sı´ocha´na should be fettered in the per- While the Bill contains several important fea- formance of its duties. It would be a bad day if tures, sections 11 and 13 on the appointment of every time a garda lifts his or her baton or tries the Garda Commissioner are critical. The Com- to move someone on, he or she would be amen- missioner should be appointed by the Govern- able to being sued or complained against. There ment and, with his or her assistant commissioners, is a danger that we will reduce the Garda to an held ultimately responsible to the Government inefficient force that is afraid to assert itself. because it is responsible to the House. I do not Sometimes the Garda Sı´ocha´na has been afraid believe in establishing immutable quangos with to assert itself to the correct degree. Naturally, if no responsibility to anybody, including this an individual garda breaks the law, he or she must House, as we have seen in other sectors. be amenable to the law. The Garda Sı´ocha´na is I ask that consideration be given to establishing not above the law and gardaı´ must work within a policing board or authority. Why is such pro- it. That said, there is a very fine balance between vision missing from the Bill, given that the need doing so and the avoidance of fettering or for a policing board has been recognised in restraining the Garda Sı´ocha´na If one crosses that Northern Ireland? Why do we not have a board line, one might end up with an ineffective Garda of seven or 11 people, even on a consultative or force. I am somewhat concerned that this is not advisory basis, who could reflect minority covered by section 41 of the Bill. interests, the urban-rural divide or gender div- The Garda Sı´ocha´na ombudsman commission isions? Such a board, consisting of people from is cental to this legislation. It is overdue and has different backgrounds, could consult, advise, been relatively well drafted in the Bill. I applaud monitor and assist the Garda Commissioner and the fact that no past or serving member of the his staff. Without some form of board or auth- Garda Sı´ocha´na can be a member of the com- ority, the Commissioner acts on his or her own. mission. It is important that the commission The Minister, the Commissioner and then the should be an independent body that will exercise Garda Sı´ocha´na operate a kind of vertical trans- its powers independently of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. mission of power and authority without, for want The power of search of Garda stations is too cum- of a better phrase, any horizontal involvement by bersome. The idea of being obliged to give notice the stakeholders in society. This is missing from to the Garda Commissioner and the Minister the Bill. Perhaps the Minister might consider the rules out the possibility of emergency raids on insertion on Committee Stage of some form of Garda stations where bad things might be hap- advisory or consultative board for the Com- pening. Given the subject matter of the Morris missioner, much as the RTE authority assists the tribunal, it appears they were. There must be a Director-General of RTE. Such a board should facility whereby the Garda ombudsman com- not become part of the chain of command, but mission can enter a Garda premises quickly in an should be there to be of assistance. unfettered way without providing the Garda I strongly support the idea of volunteer station with advance notice. This facility is avail- members. I am glad to see the new idea of joint able elsewhere in that the High Court can order policing committees and the involvement of local what is known as a quia tenet injunction or an authorities. Since the foundation of the State, this Anton Pillar order to search a premises. The has been the biggest gap in our policing. This was European Commission has the power to do so not always the case and if one looks back to the under the competition rules. European Com- 18th and 19th centuries, one sees much greater mission officials can enter any business in the 1033 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1034

State under EU competition rules. Why must a Greek Cypriot community pay an incredible trib- Garda station be sacrosanct and above this sort ute to the work of our gardaı´ as members of the of examination? I agree that such searches should United Nations. The people placed the gardaı´ only be carried out in exceptional cases. ahead of any other country in the world in their Section 105 pertains to the proposed Garda efforts to involve themselves in community Sı´ocha´na inspectorate. In general, this section is policing. too weak and needs to be beefed up. There are The role of neighbours will be extremely only a few paragraphs on the matter. It does not important in the future, irrespective of what legis- appear to take the idea of an inspectorate lative framework is introduced. People no longer seriously. An inspectorate is an essential part of know who their neighbours are, which is probably any large organisation, leaving aside the Garda the result of urbanisation. I am interested in new Sı´ocha´na. It is very important in terms of keeping directives on planning introduced by the Minister up standards within a force or 12,000 or 14,000 for the Environment, Heritage and Local officers. Government yesterday because we need to In a general sense, I welcome this Bill and its repopulate rural Ireland so we have more neigh- main thrust. We need an efficient workmanlike bours and more community involvement. Garda Sı´ocha´na which is fully equipped to meet I am interested in the objectives of the Bill. The the crime and public order challenges of the 21st Bill has three main objectives, the most century. We do not need the Garda Sı´ocha´na to interesting of which states that a new legislative be constrained, shackled or fettered. It should be structure for the management of the Gardaı´ will able to go about its business without fear or fav- be introduced. That legislative structure recog- our and without the fear of being sued over the nises for the first time the changed communities slightest matter. Gardaı´ should not be subject to in which gardaı´ operate. I, like Deputy Mulcahy frivolous or vexatious complaints and I notice and other speakers, congratulate the Garda on that this is one of the grounds on which com- their hard and continuous work in very changed plaints may be overruled. However, where gardaı´ and straitened circumstances. Another of the transgress, they must be amenable to the law and Bill’s objectives is the establishment of an inde- of all the sections in the Bill, the ombudsman pendent Garda Sı´ocha´na inspectorate, which will commission is particularly important. This will go provide independent advice to the Minister for a long way to restoring public confidence in the Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the Garda which, on an individual basis, is very much efficiency and effectiveness of the Garda. This is deserved. It contains some of the finest public a very important measure. The operational servants in the country. responsibility does not stop with the Bill. I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Mr. T. Dempsey: Gabhaim buı´ochas leis an Tom Parlon, who is here, on opening a new Teachta Mulcahy as ucht ama a roinnt liom. Ta´ Garda station in New Ross and on progressing a a´thas orm seans a fha´il labhairt ar an mBille seo. new Garda station for Wexford. The location of Fado´ ,nı´ raibh baint ar bith le hobair na Gardaı´ Garda stations will be extremely important in the leis an gna´th-dhuine. An la´ ata´ inniu ann, a´fach, future. I know that Deputy Parlon will probably toisc go bhfuil fa´s ar choireanna ar fud na tı´re, ta´ empathise with that sentiment. We must build dlu´ thbhaint le saol an ghna´th-dhuine o´ la´ go la´ le Garda stations in the centres of communities. I hobair na nGardaı´. When canvassing in the gen- know it is uneconomical and not feasible to have eral election, the recent by-elections and the local two or three stations in a provincial town like elections, the subject of crime was continually Wexford. If it was feasible, I would recommend raised by those whom I canvassed. I can under- that we had two stations in Wexford town rather stand this because we have evolved into a society than one. However, I am a realist and there is where many people, particularly in isolated rural only a certain amount of money available. I am areas, feel afraid living in their own homes. glad that Wexford is getting a new station. The I congratulate the Minister on bringing forward location of that station in Wexford and the a framework that will allow the Garda Sı´ocha´na location of other stations will be very important. operate in the new circumstances. Criminals and Putting Gardaı´ back on the beat and releasing their work can only be defeated when parents, them from the bureaucratic office work they teachers, gardaı´ and ordinary people co-operate appeared to be engaged in, which could be done in the ambition to defeat them. The old Irish say- by someone with different training and not ing, “Nı´ neart go chur le che´ile”, was never more necessarily a law enforcement training back- true. In short, community policing is what the ground, is extremely important. The training of new world requires. The Garda Sı´ocha´na will rely the gardaı´ is extremely important. Courses in the on the community and the community will inter- Garda College in Templemore must take account act with the Garda Sı´ocha´na. of the new need for the gardaı´ to be involved in I saw a wonderful example of this in Cyprus the community, whether it is with the GAA, last week in a little village called Piale where the rugby clubs or soccer clubs. It could be any aspect gardaı´ working for the United Nations use com- of community life where the gardaı´ can be munity policing without recourse to sanctions. I involved and get to know the people and the witnessed at first hand and heard the muktar people get to know them. I would like to see the from the Turkish Cypriot community and the day when gardaı´ would help in training a local 1035 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1036

[Mr. T. Dempsey.] ments for the police force. Garda numbers do not school team. I know this is happening in many reflect the enormous contribution required to areas. A former Garda in Wexford, Seamus police new suburban estates and rural areas. We Keevans, who is involved with organising school need more gardaı´ living in communities rather GAA leagues has played a very important role in than being centralised in various other locations. the community. The decision some years ago to downgrade and Deputy Mulcahy spoke about the need for close local rural Garda stations and centralise effective policing and I agree with him. The Bill Garda personnel in geographical areas was mis- will enhance the level of democratic account- taken. Efficiency is one thing but the effective- ability and that is very important. Quis custodiet ness of a police force is more important from the ipsos custodes is an old Latin saying. Who will citizen’s perspective. The effectiveness of any pol- guard the guards? The vast majority of gardaı´ ice authority can only be judged by the goodwill excel at their duties and have nothing to fear of the community and the effectiveness of the from democratic responsibility. This should not Garda in solving and preventing crime. I am be seen as challenge, rather it should be regarded thinking of examples in my constituency in places as a form of assistance to gardaı´. Justice must be like Castlecomer and Thomastown, which were seen to be done. It is important that justice is seen identified as the right locations for centralising to be done at the Morris tribunal. It is also very Garda personnel to cover a particular geographi- important that people have recourse to the full cal area. I do not expect that if a crime is commit- protection of the law even when they do not have ted in a rural area ten or 12 miles from those the money to afford it. locations that the Garda will be there in time to I congratulate the Minister on the level of con- deal effectively and quickly with it. The Garda sultation because community policing is about should revert to the traditional pattern of living consultation and I know he consulted with as close as possible to the people they are serving approximately 15 bodies and personnel. Ta´ a´thas and being engaged with the community. That is orm tacaı´ocht a thabhairt don Bhille. why community policing is essential for the future in expanding estates in urban areas around the Mr. Hogan: I welcome this legislation which country. Many communities have lost contact seeks to carry out additional reforms in An Garda with the Garda and the Garda has lost contact Sı´ocha´na. I wish to acknowledge the work done with them. That is part of the problem we have by the Garda since the force was established in with current crime levels. 1922. Any democracy of which we can be proud Anti-social behaviour was mentioned. This is requires an independent police force so we can not a new issue but very little has been done to have full confidence in it in the performance of address it. The role of parents, people in auth- its duties. The necessary resources should be ority and the Garda Sı´ocha´na is important in this prioritised to ensure that citizens are protected to regard. There will not be an improvement in juv- the greatest extent possible from criminality and enile delinquency or anti-social behaviour issues subversion. When one examines the history of An until such time as parents are penalised for not Garda Sı´ocha´na and the manner in which it was having knowledge of the whereabouts of their established in very difficult times for this State, children. That must be addressed urgently in one can see that the force has come through tur- this House. bulent times in an independent way and has pro- The issue of accountability is important and I tected people of all shades of opinion, including welcome the enshrining of joint policing commit- political opinion. The force can stand the test of tees in this Bill as it will allow local authority time, without fear or favour, through the great members and Members of the Oireachtas to work it has done over those years, which is a testi- engage more fully in the Garda Sı´ocha´na. There mony to the force’s importance in our is a temptation for some gardaı´ to operate inde- community. pendently without dealing with the representa- This Bill contains many important initiatives, tives of the people. That is a mistake they made particularly the one relating to the establishment over the years and it is essential that the Minister of a Garda inspectorate. Over the last number of for Justice, Equality and Law Reform explains years, certain individuals in An Garda Sı´ocha´na the precise reasons and criteria as to how the have besmirched the good name of the force. I Garda Sı´ocha´na should engage with public rep- suppose that is inevitable in every occupation. resentatives. We were elected by the people. Pol- There is often a temptation to overstate these ice authorities expect to get the resources to carry issues but in the interest of An Garda Sı´ocha´na, out their work from this House. It is only prudent the establishment of a chief inspectorate is that the Minister insists on the fullest possible important so that citizens can continue to have accountability through public representatives full confidence in the Garda and to aid the about the manner in which policing duties are further development of personnel in it. This will carried out. ensure people can continue to say the force is Drugs and organised crime are growing issues operating to the best quality standards and has of serious concern, not only in major urban the best training appropriate to its duties. centres but throughout the country. I often fail to Various Deputies reflected on the changing understand why the Garda are not resourced to population patterns and the changing require- target the drug barons and chief architects of 1037 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1038 criminal gangs on a 24-hour basis, seven days per We have all encountered residents in local week to put them behind bars. The State’s authority and other estates who, having appealed resources should be targeted in a more concerted to people who are young and not-so-young to be way to ensure people are protected, which is not a little quieter and so on, receive abuse. Many the case currently. people who have lived all their lives in residential The Garda Sı´ocha´na has made a significant areas now want to leave, to be transferred, as contribution to the protection of our citizens and they cannot live there any longer. That is a sad this Bill is essential in ensuring better standards reflection on our society and on the way we have of accountability in our police force. I urge the become. Regardless of the supposed Celtic tiger, Minister to implement as soon as possible the a little bit of respect for the rights of others and community policing aspects he has commented law and order goes a long way. This Bill may deal on. I would err on the side of the citizens’ protec- with this matter. tion from subversion and criminality as a priority However, I worry that we rush for more legis- in a democracy. It is important that power is not lation every time there is a crisis in the justice abused and the role of the chief inspectorate will area. This presupposes that the existing legis- be critical in maintaining the public’s confidence lation is incapable or insufficient to deal with the in the Garda Sı´ocha´na. job, but that is untrue. The oldest way out in the book is to say when something goes wrong, “why Mr. Durkan: I welcome the opportunity to do we not have more legislation?” Legislation speak on this Bill. I had notes prepared but they does not enforce the law. That is a matter for the are not to hand. One must soldier on regardless Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It in such circumstances. is not useful for Ministers to say, as is the habit in this House, they have no responsibility over an Mr. Browne: I am sure the Deputy will find area and that it is a matter for someone else. We enough to say. have devolved responsibility to a series of people to such an extent that eventually no one will have Mr. Durkan: I welcome the Bill. It purports to responsibility. The roots of many of our problems re-examine the administration of our police force. can be found in this practice. No one expects the It is timely to update the administration of justice Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and policing in every country on a regular basis. Deputy McDowell, to get involved in the day-to- The original legislation in this respect dates back day running of the business, such as transferring to 1925. There have been many changes in people, but when something goes wrong the Ireland in the intervening period, including in the Minister is bound to his responsibility. He must area of crime. I listened to many of the contri- call in senior Garda officers immediately and ask butions and people tend to stand in awe of some them what is happening. of the horrific crimes that have taken place and In the past few months there was a major rob- the surge in anti-social behaviour, disorderly con- bery in Belfast that should have set off alarm duct etc. bells all over this country. The Minister should Two issues come to mind. First, it is necessary have called in all senior police officers and laid to have the people’s confidence in the admin- down certain guidelines in the circumstances aris- istration of justice. They must be on the side of ing from that robbery and the likelihood of others the law and must see that the administration of taking place. Two or three more occurred in the justice, prevention and detection is open, even- meantime, yet nothing happened. Only a week handed, transparent and in accordance with the ago, in the face of another such atrocity, the Mini- law. A number of arrests took place in certain ster finally decided to call in the Garda Sı´ocha´na parts of the country after a recent festive week- and private security firms to discuss the matter end. I do not know whether that information is with them. true or false as the number of such incidents I do not know what he was thinking about for tends to be exaggerated. We should never kill the the past two or three months — this is not a pol- butterfly with the sledgehammer. If something itical point but a fact of life — but if there was a must be done, do it, but do not exceed what is real intention to do anything about this matter, it needed. would have been done then. As soon as the first I think back to about 20 years ago, to the time of these robberies took place, it was well known Jack Charlton’s famous “army” travelled all over that there would be more and that the same tech- the world and was hailed as a jovial bunch of nique would be used, and so it happened. Why friendly, law-abiding citizens who, according to was something not done about this? The pro- themselves, were able to drink everybody else duction of legislation is only a camouflage in under the table while remaining friendly and these circumstances. It does nothing, good, bad or courteous. This was one of the new wonders of indifferent, other than act as a pretence of going the world, but I do not know where it has gone through the motions. in the meantime. Without any shadow of a doubt, The daily escalation of gun crimes, organised there is now total disrespect for authority, other crime, drug-related crimes, paramilitary crime, people’s property and attempts to suggest that money laundering, racketeering and protection- people stay within their own areas without ism in recent years is unacceptable. The Minister imposing their ways and wills on other citizens. for Justice, Equality and Law Reform used to tell 1039 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1040

[Mr. Durkan.] extent that he said it was almost impossible to the House that he knew what he knew and he assess the size of the criminal fraternity in terms saw what he saw, that he had the information, but of organised gangs and that it would not be poss- if he had all this information, why did he not do ible to establish how many operate as a unit and something about it? What was tying his hands? I as independent entities. I find that very hard to am tired of listening to the excuse “My hands are believe. Almost every time we read a newspaper tied, I can do nothing about these things.” It is we read about somebody who is known to the about time somebody started to take responsi- Garda and, I presume, to the Minister. Surely the bility. That simply means the Minister for Justice, Minister speaks to gardaı´ and asks them an odd Equality and Law Reform taking responsibility question from time to time. Surely he asks them and giving directions and instructions and not how many of these people there are and what being afraid to stand over them. That is they are doing. important. It appears money-laundering is big business If what happened here occurred in a banana and is working well. I tabled parliamentary ques- republic, one would excuse it by saying it was a tions some time ago to the Minister for Finance banana republic. We do not have the bananas on this issue. With quite low interest rates in the except to skid on them from time to time. The banks, it is much more lucrative in terms of major heists we have seen would put the pro- investment in the legitimate marketplace to be fessionals of bygone years in Chicago to shame involved in money-laundering. Journalists in this because those here do a more professional job city who write about crime seem to know much and with impunity. We have an unarmed police more about how the system works and how lucra- force, which is good although it has its disadvan- tive it is than the Minister for Justice, Equality tages. I heard noises recently in the undergrowth and Law Reform. to the effect that legally held guns were about to The Minister is a very nice fellow. I believe he be monitored and that more restrictions were to may have injured himself when he swung off that be introduced on how they should be stored and telegraph pole in the course of the last general dealt with. It would be much better if the auth- election and that a low flying aircraft may have orities were employed looking after the illegal buzzed him and disorientated him because, leav- guns which are used regularly. What really took ing aside his geniality and joviality, he seems to the biscuit a few weeks ago was when an unfortu- have difficultly addressing the tough issues. He nate bar employee was shot with a sawn-off shot- complains about them as if he were a bystander gun. It was reported in the newspapers that the or a pedestrian passing comments on the terrible situation was not life-threatening. Whoever wrote events that happen under his watch. that a volley from a sawn-off shotgun was not life- threatening did not know what they were talking Mr. Broughan: He blames everyone but about. himself. There are no situations in which a sawn-off shotgun or a shotgun is discharged other than in Mr. Durkan: Correct. This is new because when life-threatening situations. How many people the Minister was in opposition, he used to point have lost their lives already? How many people the finger at the then Government and ask it have lost limbs? Not so long ago a well known what it was doing. publican in this city lost a limb as a result of such an attack. Will somebody do something about the Mr. Browne: That was a long time ago. use of guns and violent crime? A proper sentence must be imposed, even if it must be a mandatory Mr. Durkan: To give him credit, the only thing one. People do not take out a sawn-off shotgun the Minister has not done so far is come across to comb their hair or stir their tea but rather to to this side of the House to point the finger at blow somebody’s head off which they do on a the Government. However, he has done almost regular basis. It is about time we copped on, everything else, including complaining in public stopped pussy-footing around and did something and telling the media and the public how awful about this issue. Something can be done if there the situation is and that something must be done is a will. If there is no will or if the Minister is about it. afraid he will upset somebody, then that is a The greatest laugh of all time is that after the different ball game and he should tell us that. most recent horrendous armed robbery which Unless something serious is done about gun netted a cool \2 million — the national lottery is crime, it will get worse. The introduction of this not in the same league in that this is a much more Bill will in no way affect it. lucrative business — the Minister called in the I have tabled a series of parliamentary ques- private security firms and gave them 105 days to tions over recent years to the Minister and his get certain security measures in order. What was predecessor on money laundering, the laundering he thinking? What were the 105 days for? Must of drug related money and the proceeds of rob- more robberies take place in the meantime? Is beries. I have also asked about the number of there another reason the Minister gave them that organised gangs and where they are located. length of time? Why did he not call those people However, the Minister was coy in many of his in immediately after Christmas when it was replies — he is coy much of the time — to the obvious there was a serious problem of organised 1041 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1042 crime? If he had done so then, it would have been accepted in respect of any profession. It is much more beneficial. important that the Garda has the full support and Legislation is necessary and provides the basis confidence of the general public. The best way to on which a police force or a Minister may take do that is to ensure the administration of the law action. However, unless there is a will on the part is above board, that it is clear, accountable and of the Minister to take direct action rather than transparent and in accordance with the legis- blame somebody else, then the legislation is of no lation. I hope this legislation will be of some benefit or use. benefit but it will be of little benefit to anybody In recent years I have listened to various unless the Minister gets involved in addressing experts talk about a part-time police force. There the issues that confront him. is no place for such a force. There is no way other than to have a full-time, properly paid and Mr. Broughan: I am delighted to have the equipped police force under the control of the opportunity to welcome the Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill Commissioner and the Minister. Unfortunately, 2004. Although my party will table some amend- that costs money but that is how it has been since ments, the Labour Party broadly welcomes the the foundation of the State, even though it had Bill. I congratulate and commend the Garda no money. I do not accept the notion that we can Sı´ocha´na on the service it has given to the State have cheap policing on the side. since 1924. The last comprehensive legislation in I refer to another issue which I have brought this area was the 1924 Act. It is timely that the to the attention of the public and this House. I Minister is coming forward with this far-reaching was glad to note that something said by a retiring legislation for the purpose of modernising and chief constable in the UK approximately ten upgrading some of the structures of the force. years ago was referred to at the conference of the During the 80 years the Garda Sı´ocha´na has Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors. served us, generally it has done a splendid job. On the chief constable’s retirement — he could While all professions are important and play their not say this before it because he would have been part in the civic and economic structure of the fingered — he said a huge wall was being built State without security one has nothing, and this between the public and the police force although includes the Government or a senior citizen who, the British people were generally very supportive alone at night, is terrorised by a gang. Through- of and co-operated with their police. He said that out those decades the Garda Sı´ocha´na has served as a result of the need for the police to continu- us well. The Acting Chairman will join with me ally enforce traffic laws, there was antipathy in commending the local gardaı´ in Dublin North- towards the police and it was not receiving that East and the districts that serve the division, same degree of co-operation. I have said that sev- particularly the force under Superintendent Noel eral times over the years but nobody paid any McLoughlin, Superintendent Nicholas Conneally attention. I was glad to note gardaı´ said that at and Inspector Eddie Hyland who run the three their conference because they know what they stations in our constituency. Throughout the year, are talking about. and especially at Hallowe’en when there was sig- Traffic management and traffic law must be nificant disorder, it has always responded faith- enforced by the Garda so far as it can be done. fully to the urgings of the general population and The way to make friends is not in enforcing it on has carried out its work diligently. a straight road or dual carriageway when the road I am delighted to have been facilitated in meet- is clear given that most of the time one can travel ing with the senior Garda staff in our three at only five or seven miles per hour because of stations on numerous occasions. I welcome that traffic jams. level of co-operation. Our part of Dublin city has In recent years I have tabled parliamentary been well ahead of the legislation in regard to questions about traffic accident black spots all local involvement. Six or seven years ago I pro- over the country. Lo and behold some Minister posed to Dublin City Council the establishment decided to put cameras on the black spots. I of a joint Garda-local authority committee with would have thought it would be better to identify the support of our superintendents and local what was wrong with the road in the first place, government staff under manager Declan Wallace. and why so many were killed in a particular area. That committee is in operation for the past three In one part of my constituency 21 people were or four years with the last two city councils. It is killed over an 18 year period on the same road, always helpful for colleagues, local representa- at the same intersection and there was a reason. tives and national representatives to turn up to It should be a simple matter to deal with issues Darndale village centre and put across to the directly rather than indirectly. superintendent and his staff, face to face, the The Garda Sı´ocha´na has a difficult job to do. issues we think should be dealt with. In our con- Some of its members have fallen by the wayside, stituency we have foreshadowed much of the like some politicians, some medical practitioners development we welcome today, such as local and some religious. No organisation is perfect. If accountability, policing plans and so on. anybody wishes to point the finger it can be In the past the major problem in my local pointed everywhere. It is not sufficient to say that Garda station and other areas was the serious because one falls by the wayside that everybody lack of resources with, perhaps, only 25 people to is guilty. We should never allow that to be man a major urban station and only one patrol 1043 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1044

[Mr. Broughan.] the ground and we know what is happening every car available. The Government has still not day and night. addressed those deficiencies. As my colleague Crime prevention is the key element of polic- said, we are still getting the same mantra about ing. I refer to the National Crime Council which crime as we heard three years ago. From last Sat- was an interesting initiative of the previous Mini- urday it appears the Progressive Democrats Party ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It was is a caring party, like those in Opposition. The chaired by the distinguished former public ser- Minister has had three years to address the grave vant, Pa´draic White. It issued its crime prevention problems of anti-social behaviour, Garda mod- strategy for Ireland. Many of its recommend- ernisation and so on which Deputy Rabbitte ations on crime prevention are as valid today as articulated yesterday morning. So far, the Mini- they were when the strategy was published a few ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, years ago, particularly in respect of the necessity Deputy McDowell, has failed to do so. We saw for local involvement, local crime prevention the spectacle of him on media last week and the plans and youth diversion. Valuable work has previous week berating security companies and been done on the youth diversion schemes in the every Tom, Dick and Harry except the person past decade. I commend the Garda Com- who is responsible for the whole situation in missioner and the Minister for continuing that regard to armed robberies and the use of fire- programme. Speaking from experience in my arms, namely himself. He needs to look at his constituency and the north side region, the work own track record which is not good. done by the youth diversion programme has The input of my party into the gestation of the played a significant role in turning a number of Bill has been important. I tabled a number of young men away from a life of crime and justice Bills particularly in regard to the plague of desolation. joy-riding. I welcome the fact the Government Unfortunately, the overall track record of the has implemented some of my proposals. It is fair past three years is disappointing, particularly with to say that for the generation of Labour poli- respect to the plague of anti-social behaviour. My ticians, of whom I am a member, from the late party leader graphically outlined the problem 1980s and early 1990s, even before the Prime about which I have been in contact with the Mini- Minister of the United Kingdom came up with ster on numerous occasions, which is the situation of the person who is regarded as different, very the phrase “tough on crime and tough on the often living in a corner house in a local authority causes of crime”, that was precisely our policy. If or a private estate. They are often tormented one looks through Labour Party documentation night and day. It is disappointing that the incid- of the past ten or 15 years, it is clear that we did ence of robbery of goods in transit and the dis- presage some of the key features of the Bill, charge of firearms has increased year on year by particularly our proposals for legislation for a over 50% during the Minister’s time in office and Garda authority and Garda ombudsman as issued to which he must give serious attention in the by Deputy Howlin in November 2000. It is pref- coming months. aced with an interesting quote from Michael The Minister has stated that this Bill is the Staines, the first Commissioner of the Garda most far-reaching legislation since 1924. In his Sı´ocha´na who said that the Garda Sı´ocha´na will contribution to the Second Stage debate in the succeed not by force of arms or numbers but by Seanad he commended Senator Maurice Hayes its moral authority as servants of the people. In for his contribution to the legislation. I welcome that document we put forward some seminal the provisions in section 19 for a strategy state- reforms. ment and the setting of priorities by a Minister. I Obviously, the issue of a Garda authority has also warmly welcome the establishment of local not been dealt with — things are still centralised policing plans. The Minister may recall that the in the Minister’s office. That is an issue that first such plan was in the Kilmainham area should be addressed in the future. I commend the approximately four or five years ago under Com- Minister on bringing forward the county policing missioner Byrne. I am informed by colleagues in liaison committees. While the Bill provides for a Dublin South that this was outstandingly Garda ombudsman, we would have gone further successful. but the ombudsman commission includes some of I warmly welcome the annual policing plan the basic proposals we suggested more than five which allows the Minister invigilate the perform- years ago. Similarly, we stress the role of human ance of gardaı´ while not interfering in operational rights in the work of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. matters. I welcome everything to do with the It is fair to say the Labour Party foreshadowed independence of the Garda Sı´ocha´na in respect many of the issues in the Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill. of its financial responsibilities and the manage- The Taoiseach issued a challenge to us to support ment and structure of the force. I particularly aspects of legislation which are pre- welcome the provisions in section 31 on the local 2 o’clock pared to be tough on crime. The policing commissions, one of which was estab- Labour Party and I have no problem lished in the area of Dublin North Central and with that because we have always been tough on Dublin North East four or five years ago and has crime. We know the situation at first hand proved to be important and valuable. I also wel- because being a smaller party we work hard on come the provisions for the service of the Garda 1045 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1046

Sı´ocha´na in other forces, including the PSNI, and the powers granted to it, including the power to the Minister’s initiative in providing for volunteer investigate and examine records and documents members of the force. in a Garda station. It is a positive development In the United Kingdom the local knowledge of that the provisions of the Garda Sı´ocha´na constables plays a significant part in bringing (Complaints) Act 1986 will be replaced by a more about a direct and local response to issues. In accountable and transparent structure. Japan the force has a local tier which knows every The Taoiseach challenged the Labour Party family in the district and there is no need for con- earlier this week on the type of measures that tinuous re-education of the force. I ask the Mini- might be introduced to tackle the plague of anti- ster in his remaining period in office to properly social behaviour. Public representatives have resource community gardaı´. They have been the received much correspondence on this issue. Cinderella force for the past eight to ten years. Before Hallowe’en last year, I asked the Minister We are all familiar with members of the force for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to examine who have done heroic work in that role but were the problems arising in communities during what then sent on Border duty and this was a problem. should be a wonderful festival for one or two They are pulled away from work they are doing evenings. However, the Acting Chairman and I very well, such as meeting young people in youth are aware that in some parts of our constituency, clubs and football clubs. I ask the Minister to con- it becomes a two or three-month period of hor- sider putting a senior Garda officer in charge of rific noise and mayhem. On certain nights, some community policing because this would be dee- localities have been compared to the first nights ply appreciated. of the US invasion of Baghdad because of the Deputy Mitchell and I share the view that a constant booming noises. regional police force should be considered. The The Minister has told me it would be difficult idea of having a regional Dublin force was to pro- for this House to introduce radical measures on vide a level of continuity in order that new fireworks. At his party conference last weekend, members did not need to become educated about however, he seemed to make a great virtue of particular districts. Community policing needs to taking difficult decisions. The Progressive Demo- be strengthened. crats Party has become caring like the Labour I welcome the proposed replacement of the Party and its members seem to be hedging their Garda Sı´ocha´na Complaints Board by the inde- bets when it comes to potential partners in a new pendent Garda Ombudsman Commission. Citi- Administration. It is time for the Minister to take zens have complained about the length of time action on fireworks bearing in mind that the Hal- it takes to deal with complaints. In one case a lowe’en period is less than five months away. complaint was made to the Garda Sı´ocha´na Com- I commend the Minister on the introduction of plaints Board by Mr. Kevin Tracey, 11 Park Lane, the Bill and the examination of some fundamen- Chapelizod, Dublin 20. He called to my clinic and tal policing structures. The Labour Party’s 2000 that of the Minister and effectively asked for a policy document included a proposal for an inde- complaint he had made to the board to be dealt pendent Garda authority, and this is an issue that with and reported. He made that complaint should be considered in regard to the admin- approximately two or three years ago. I have a istration of the force. The Garda Sı´ocha´na has file containing quite serious allegations which he served our country and our communities very has made. It is disappointing that the board did well. I commend the men and women of the not report on his complaint. It is unfair that no Garda who have done their job so well, partic- report is available on serious allegations made. In ularly in my constituency on the north side of the case of Mr. Tracey’s complaint, the new Dublin in recent decades. We must acknowledge Garda Ombudsman Commission would have the the heroic contribution of many gardaı´, some of resources and the structures to deal with it in an whom lost their lives in the service of the State. efficient manner. In addition to this Bill, I appeal to the Minister There are some aspects relating to time limits to provide the funding to ensure that superin- which may require examination. The Garda tendents have the necessary resources in terms of Sı´ocha´na Complaints Board is an independent manpower, equipment and other support mech- body which does not report to the Minister and anisms, especially in hard-pressed urban stations certainly does not report to me, but what happens throughout the country. In this context, I wish the when it takes on a case and just sits on it, as is Bill well. alleged in this case? For the sake of the family of the complainant, Mr. Tracey, and everybody else, Ms C. Murphy: I wish to focus on several the complaints made should be dealt with and aspects of the Bill. It is to be generally welcomed laid to rest. I mention this case because I had no because it consolidates previous legislation dating other opportunity to do so. I ask the Minister to back to 1924. At a time when many feel over- ensure the case is addressed. loaded with information, it is helpful that the I welcome the provisions in respect of the legislative provisions can be simplified in this accountability of the Garda Ombudsman Com- manner. A positive development is that the issue mission, in particular in respect of offences which of human rights is built into the Bill in several may have been committed as a result of the mis- places. A significant feature of section 7 is that behaviour of a member of the force. I welcome the Garda Sı´ocha´na will be statutorily obliged to 1047 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1048

[Ms C. Murphy.] The establishment of the joint committees will have regard to the importance of upholding introduce an entire layer of additional bureauc- human rights in the performance of its functions. racy at local government level, albeit some of it It is to be hoped that an awareness of this obli- very productive, including the new county gation will be incorporated into Garda training development boards, strategic policy committees and that there will be opportunities on an and community and voluntary fora. It may take ongoing basis to focus on that aspect. This obli- some time to see a result from these new strata gation will add to the authority of the force. of administration because, by their nature, they We can only have confidence in our police ser- represent a focus on the long-term view. They vice if it performs to the highest standards. It is also require a significant additional level of not only in the public interest but in the interest administration in terms of costs and staff of the Garda itself that this should be the case. resources. Such commitment of resources cannot The Bill represents a serious attempt to ensure be bypassed in respect of the functioning of the such standards prevail. The proposed code of eth- joint committees. There must be some transfer of ics provided for in section 16, which will be incor- funds to local authorities to enable the commit- porated into the disciplinary framework, is criti- tees to work in practice. cal. It grounds the conduct of the Garda within There may be an expectation that the commit- the terms of the European Convention on tees will represent merely a feeding of infor- Human Rights which represents a good found- mation to the Garda. However, such consultation ation stone for legislation on this matter. may involve a dialogue in both directions. The Garda human rights audit highlighted the For example, I chaired a county development perception of community members that insuf- board and noted that issues were raised by the ficient resources were devoted to community pol- Garda. Some of its proposals were resource- icing and that community consultation was mini- dependent. It is difficult to respond if there is not mal. I support the provisions of section 32 for a transfer of funds to deal with the issues raised, enhanced co-operation between the Garda and including traffic-related issues. For example, a the local authorities through the establishment of very good suggestion to reduce the time gardaı´ joint policing committees. However, I have spend addressing traffic back-up, making refer- serious concerns that this measure may be inad- ence to filter lanes into housing estates or off equate in practice. The joint committees must be major roads, had resource implications. It had capable of producing a response. What is such implications for the Garda because the required is not another layer of analysis but necessary infrastructure was not in place; thus it rather a practical response. was investing time doing something that could The formal relationship between the Garda have been done in a different way. Unexpected and local authorities is positive. As a member of issues with resource implications may crop up in a town council for 17 years, I was witness to some the context of the relationship between the local useful co-operation in this regard. It was clear authorities and the Garda. These need to be people wanted to be reassured that local gardaı´ dealt with. were aware of the issues and concerns in the com- I know from experience that members of the munity and to be confident they would focus on public raise issues associated with vandalism and areas of heightened concern. However, it was dif- anti-social behaviour. They do so right across the ficult to deliver information to the public because spectrum, irrespective of the community in which gardaı´ were, understandably in some cases, reluc- they live. Often they are reluctant to draw atten- tant to release information into the public tion to problems in an area close to where they domain. This information might relate to ongoing live because they are seriously concerned they issues such as complaints about groups of young- will be intimidated if they are identified as having sters frequenting a particular location, for drawn attention to the problems. This is partly example. If gardaı´ have devised a plan of action why such problems are under-reported. I have to counteract such problems, it is not desirable seen people being singled out for reporting anti- that it should be outlined in the local newspaper. social behaviour. This makes difficult circum- Satisfying public expectation in terms of infor- stances very much worse. mation, therefore, was not always possible. Not- The relationship between the local authorities withstanding the difficulties I have outlined, there and the Garda could be of assistance regarding seemed to be a particularly conservative attitude the closure of laneways and lighting up dark to the provision of information on the part of the spaces, for example. Often assistance merely Garda. It would have been helpful if gardaı´ had involves moving the problem on and, therefore, been more forthcoming in this regard. In this con- the cause is not dealt with. I know policing is part text, we should bear in mind that section 45 of of the solution but it does not represent the the Local Government Act 2001 provides that the total solution. public and media should normally be permitted While canvassing for the local elections last to attend local authority meetings unless such year, I had time to listen to the electorate. Many access is not in the public interest. Does this pro- raised concerns about anti-social behaviour and vision have any bearing in respect of the joint vandalism and linked the problem to the inad- committees and could difficulties arise in this equacy of facilities. Over and over, they talked regard? about the kind of place in which they wanted to 1049 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1050 live and in which they wanted their children to regarded as too much part of the solution such grow up. I felt their message was very hopeful but that the professional full-time force will not com- it will only remain hopeful if it is delivered upon. prise the dominant part of the organisation. What Policing is only one aspect of this matter. We will be the practical impact of voluntary policing? must consider the others. I do not believe a significant number will In the developing county of Kildare — the only volunteer. county of which I have direct experience — there The proposal for a Garda ombudsman rep- has been a population increase in the order of resents an improvement. While it is important to 50,000 in the past ten years. This substantial have improvements, the proposal does not go far increase amounts to one third of the population. enough. We have a tendency in this country to go An increase in Garda resources has not matched 50% of the way in respect of many measures. I population growth. There should be a relation- would have preferred if this matter had been ship between population growth and the pro- dealt with fully rather than in an incremental way. vision of facilities and services, including gardaı´. I am concerned that the proposal does not rep- When I refer to resources, I do not refer solely to resent the whole solution. personnel but also to physical infrastructure. The Morris tribunal must be a deep source of During almost every election campaign the concern to members of the Garda. It is probably electorate in Leixlip, the town in which I live, of most concern to the most honourable members draws attention to the need for a Garda station of the force which comprise the dominant group. in the town. It was promised during the term of In recent years I have had an opportunity to the Government before last but has still not interact with members of the Garda on behalf of materialised. People become fairly cynical when constituents. I have the highest praise for some of promises are made at election time and not deliv- the work they do which often goes unnoticed. ered on. There should be accelerated delivery of Often gardaı´ have interacted positively with such basic facilities as a desk for people to work others at flashpoints. They have found imaginat- from and a place to which people can call to make ive ways to deal with them. their complaints and raise concerns. If such a I understand time is required to train extra premises only allowed for form filling, it would gardaı´ but the delay in deploying the extra 2,000 still represent a Garda presence and be important. For example, there is a Garda office gardaı´ is such that the casualty of the service has in Leixlip that opens for two hours a day. I am been in the area of community policing. This is a focusing on Leixlip but the resource issue is positive development in which interventions can prevalent throughout the constituency. I have no be imaginative. In that regard, the quicker those doubt that the message of the electorate is similar 2,000 gardaı´ are available, the better. A Garda in all other developing areas. presence gives people a great deal of comfort. Section 14 of the Bill establishes a basis in law Policing is not the only solution to anti-social for the resources of the Garda Sı´ocha´na to be behaviour. A societal issue must also be supplemented by providing for the appointment, addressed, as must a resourcing issue in terms of by the Garda Commissioner, of persons as volun- how we construct our communities. It is not just teer members of the force. I will be amazed if a question of building more and more houses, one many volunteer. I have some concerns about this must provide the necessary facilities and services. approach to policing. If one offers a service vol- If one examines the studies carried out in prisons, untarily, one can also withdraw it voluntarily; one will note a direct relationship between anti- thus we may not have the continuity we need. social behaviour and prisoners not being We all know gardaı´ do a difficult job and often members of sports clubs or other community put their lives at risk. Under section 14, we will organisations. These issues must be dealt with. be asking people to do the same in a voluntary This will require investment in communities. capacity. I have serious concerns about the pro- While the Bill does not cover this specifically, it tection they will be offered. What protection will will produce the results we seek only if invest- be offered to their families in the event of their ment is made in remedying the cause of problems receiving a serious injury, or worse? as well as in policing. Consider the level of training required and the specific reference to the need to have regard to Mr. Hayes: I welcome the opportunity to speak human rights which will lead to this training being on this wide-ranging Bill. The debate too has further developed. What level of training will the been wide-ranging. The Bill replaces all Acts in volunteers in the force receive? Will they be this area since 1924 which is a sweeping and cour- trained to the same standard as other members ageous initiative that merits serious discussion. of the force? It is difficult to believe they will be No matter who we are or where we live we trained to the same standard, given the time it depend on the Garda Sı´ocha´na. We need a well- takes to train an officer to such a standard. manned, well-equipped police force to make us I am concerned there will be disproportionate secure in our homes, on the roads and in our daily numbers of volunteers in certain areas and staff- lives. As our society develops, problems increase ing issues in others. What impact will this have and there is more pressure on the Garda Sı´och- in the assignment of new gardaı´? There could be a´na to deliver a better service and inspire confi- considerable resistance to the initiative if it is dence in the community. 1051 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1052

[Mr. Hayes.] Some years ago, soon after I became a Member The key objective of the Bill is to establish an of the Seanad, some concerned business people independent Garda Sı´ocha´na ombudsman com- spoke to me about the crime level in Tipperary mission to replace the existing complaints board. town. It seemed from their account of the prob- The current system for dealing with complaints lem that there was very little policing in the area. against members of the force does not command There was only one way to address that. I set up full public confidence. The complaints board has a meeting with the local superintendent. Since pointed to the problems of the current arrange- then we continue to meet on a regular basis to ment. A new mechanism is needed to ensure keep each other informed. That was one of the openness, transparency and public confidence in best things I did because bringing together con- the investigation of complaints against members cerned people and the authorities in the town of the Garda Sı´ocha´na and the method of that made an impact. The results have all been posi- investigation. tive. Both sides understood how much work was Many people have cited problems with the being done by the Garda Sı´ocha´na as an organis- Garda in their areas but the number of com- ation and the gardaı´ on the street. plaints against the Garda Sı´ocha´na in my clinics As I go about my daily business I am struck by and constituency office is small. When I follow the lack of police on the ground. There is a need these up I find more often than not that the com- to get more police officers on the beat. The pres- plaints do not stand up, and that is a good sign. ence of gardaı´ walking the street, keeping an eye Transparency, however, is the key to this Bill on and being involved in communities gives because it inspires the public with the confidence people a sense of security. that it has a police force that supports it in its The Garda Sı´ocha´na is undergoing serious daily life. change to which it devotes time and effort. I welcome the Minister’s decision to dissolve Gardaı´ spend a great deal of time at their desks the complaints board and opt for the ombudsman writing reports. We need more gardaı´ on the model which Fine Gael has advocated for some street where their role should be more focused. time. I welcome in particular the power given the The condition of some rural stations through- ombudsman in section 94(4) to initiate an investi- out the country is not satisfactory. The Minister gation. That is welcome but the scope of such an should examine the closure of Garda stations in investigation should be widened considerably so some of the smaller towns and villages through- that the ombudsman can examine more general out the country in light of the development which policing practices. is taking place in these areas. People are crying We have one national police force, while many out for these stations to be re-opened. Whatever countries have several giving rise to a need for about the way Garda resources are divided in very different structures. Britain, for example, has different Garda divisions, the local man on the over 40 regional police constabularies and several beat and local stations have stood the test of time. national law enforcement agencies including its This brought gardaı´ into contact with the local intelligence services. In addition to being a police community and resulted in mutual respect. I do force the Garda Sı´ocha´na functions as an intelli- not think the public has the same respect for the gence service, which is important in dealing with gardaı´ they had when I was attending school. The the drug culture that has developed throughout proposal to have gardaı´ in local stations must be the country and determining its source. discussed. It will be stated that stations are not The Bill also provides for a joint policing com- being closed. However, the truth is that most of mittee involving Garda and local authority rep- the Garda stations in my constituency are either resentation. This year there is a focus on local closed or there is no one in them, which is a poor authority membership, functions and local reflection on the Government. This issue needs democracy. For the first time committees will to be addressed so that people can become more provide fora where the gardaı´ and local auth- integrated with the Garda force. orities can co-operate to address local policing There are enormous problems with crime in and other issues under the management of the society. Crime figures have increased. The Mini- local authority. It is important that the Garda ster may say the problem is in hand and crime representatives put a strong case for their figures are decreasing. This is not what I witness interests to be taken into account. in my constituency. There is also the problem of The strategic policy committees feed into local anti-social behaviour among young people, and authorities and members of local authorities are there are not sufficient gardaı´ to deal with these active on the ground, thanks to the abolition of problems. Now is not the time to be overly politi- the dual mandate. This increased focus on the cal but the truth is that 2,000 gardaı´ were prom- community can add knowledge to meetings of ised during the last general election campaign. strategic policy committees, county development People expected more gardaı´ to be put on the boards or county councils. There is scope for streets, which has not happened. The Minister expansion in this area with the knowledge these should deal with this issue in the forthcoming local representatives can share with the Garda budget, and not wait until the next general elec- Sı´ocha´na. The feeding of information between tion campaign. It should be dealt with over a cer- the Garda and the local authority is a welcome tain timescale. Given the increase in the popu- development. lation, immigrant figures and problems in society, 1053 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1054 a genuine effort should be made to put more poll from one year ago found that more than 50% gardaı´ on the streets. of young adults had no confidence in the gardaı´. If the requests I have made are dealt with, We need to be positive, not negative in our there will be more confidence in the force. I wel- approach to this issue. What is needed now is come this broad-ranging Bill. We all depend on comprehensive reform and strong legislation to the gardaı´. The security of the State depends on change the culture of impunity and the lack of the gardaı´. My party established the Garda Sı´och- oversight and accountability in the future. We are a´na, of which we are proud. However, there committed to engaging constructively in the pro- needs to be improvements and adjustments to the cess of change until such time as an all-Ireland force. I commend the Minister for bringing for- service can be established in the future. I am, ward the Bill. I ask him to take on board the therefore, pleased to have the opportunity to points I made on behalf of the public. I spent comment on this long overdue Garda reform Bill, much of my time in County Meath during the to point out some of its shortcomings and to recent by-election campaign and I witnessed at encourage the Minister for Justice, Equality and first hand the concerns of people living in com- Law Reform to accept the constructive proposals munities at the lack of Garda activity throughout and amendments that will be tabled by Sinn Fe´in. the county. There is a need for more gardaı´ in Earlier, my colleague, Deputy Crowe, dealt communities. with the aspects of the legislation regarding the I am pleased to have had an opportunity to need for a single Garda ombudsman, in keeping contribute to this debate. I ask the Minister to with the Good Friday Agreement strand 3 com- take on board the points I made. mitments to equivalence in human rights protec- tion between both jurisdictions. I will deal pri- Mr. Ferris: Before speaking on the Bill, I want marily with the need to establish a policing board to deplore comments made by Deputy Quinn for civilian oversight — a mechanism that would who used this opportunity to make scurrilous provide much stronger accountability and trans- remarks about the contribution of my colleague, parency to the public than the Minister’s pro- Deputy Crowe. I will defend absolutely my right, posed Garda inspectorate based on the British and that of each Sinn Fe´in Deputy, to speak on model in Part 5 of the Bill. the Bill and the issue of policing. The communi- The Minister will say it is untenable for Sinn ties we represent, both North and South, have Fe´in to boycott the policing board in the Six just as much right to a proper policing service as Counties, yet call for the establishment of an those represented by Deputy Quinn. Sinn Fe´in equivalent body to oversee the gardaı´ in this juris- has made a constructive contribution to the polic- diction. Let me clarify this. There is no contradic- ing debate in this House. I commend my col- tion whatsoever in our position. The establish- league, Deputy O´ Snodaigh, on the work he has ment of a policing board is an essential element done. of the Patten police reform package. The Patten Sinn Fe´in aspires to establishing an all-Ireland model is widely recognised as representing inter- police service which is among the best in the national best practice in policing. It is also con- world. It must be fully modern, efficient and sistent with UN and Council of Europe standards effective, able to respond to evolving challenges, on policing. It was developed in the context of representative of the population, accountable to the peace process for application in the Northern local communities and working in partnership context as a necessary element of conflict resol- with them, underpinned by a human rights and ution. Patten was put together by a team of inter- community service ethos, meeting or even national experts, including a Canadian who exceeding international best practice standards helped to guide police reform for post-apartheid for policing. We are ambitious to create real South Africa. The Patten report is still considered security in our communities and we have positive by many to be state of the art and to have inter- policy alternatives to offer. national relevance and application. Sinn Fe´in We now have a police force in the Six Counties believes the Patten package is far from optimal, that has not severed itself from its legacy of but we accept it as representing an appropriate human rights violations and which is still ulti- minimum standard. We could not accept anything mately controlled by the British Government. less than the full Patten report. Meanwhile, the Garda Sı´ocha´na in this juris- We do not find the Patten’s policing board diction has been undermined by under-resourc- model objectionable, rather the PSNI. While we ing, lack of proper oversight, lack of local and maintain that the Garda Sı´ocha´na is in need of public accountability, corruption and a culture of comprehensive reform, as both Deputies O´ impunity for misconduct. Present oversight mech- Snodaigh and Crowe have previously stated, we anisms in particular are very poor. It is not also believe it is a legitimate police service. The acceptable that neither the Garda Commissioner same cannot be said about the PSNI which con- nor the Minister for Justice, Equality or Law tinues to retain human rights violators on active Reform could answer my colleague, Deputy O´ duty, block access to the truth about collusion, Snodaigh, when he asked the total number of retains its political policing arm, the special serving gardaı´ who have been charged with or branch, and plastic bullets. convicted of a criminal offence, and the number Sinn Fe´in recommends the establishment on a for each type of offence. No wonder an MRBI statutory basis of a fully independent civilian pol- 1055 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1056

[Mr. Ferris.] We welcome the emerging international con- icing board, separate from the Garda Sı´ocha´na sensus regarding a need for independent, civilian and the Garda ombudsman’s office. Its purpose oversight in order to establish full police account- would be to hold gardaı´ fully to public account. ability. However, the Minister’s proposals in this The policing board would act as the civilian Bill will not deliver the full independence and civ- body to which the Garda Commissioner was ilian oversight the Irish people deserve and accountable. In this way it would fulfil the other should be revised to include provisions for an aspects of the remit of the Minister’s proposed independent, civilian policing board. inspectorate, providing management oversight on We welcome the Minister’s recognition that issues of recruitment, qualifications, training stan- Garda oversight and investigation functions dards, equipment, accommodation, organisation should be separate, as argued by Sinn Fe´in, the methods and best practice. Human Rights Commission and others. I also Sinn Fe´in proposes the policing board be inde- welcome that the Minister has, in Part 5 of the pendent of Garda management and representa- Bill, altered his original proposal of a Garda tive of the population served by the Garda. We inspectorate which wrongly combined investigat- recommend it be composed of one third cross ory and management functions and, in many party elected representatives, one third represen- ways, replicated flaws of the current system. He tatives of statutory bodies and one third represen- has taken several of our recommendations on tatives of community and voluntary sectors. It board. However, the newly proposed Garda should have at least 50% female representation inspectorate is still not right and is not quite up and take into account the need for other social to the standard set out in Sinn Fe´in proposals. and economic representatives. Members of the While former members of the Garda will not board must be selected by a transparent, merit- be allowed sit on the inspectorate, the Govern- based appointment process independent of the ment is still allowed to appoint former police Garda Sı´ocha´na, and members and the chair must officers from other states according to section be selected on the same basis as the ombudsman. 107. This means, theoretically, that former RUC Elected representatives should be disqualified members could be appointed to the board. The from holding the office of chairperson. appointment process is merit based, but it is still The policing board should be empowered to not transparent. Despite claims in section 109(7), appoint senior gardaı´ on the basis of a trans- the inspectorate will not be independent of the parent process to review their performance and Minister, who retains overall control of its work, hold them accountable. The board should be according to section 109(2)(a). Provisions in required to meet monthly and in public with the section 109(5) allow the Minister to suppress the Garda Commissioner and to receive his reports publication of inspectorate reports at his discre- on operational management. It should be able to tion. Furthermore, in section 112, the chief request and receive all manner of information inspector shall not “question or express an from the Commissioner. If it is in the public opinion on the merits of any policy of the interest that such information be kept confiden- Government or a Minister of the Government.” tial, the board should be allowed to hold in cam- The inspectorate is also not required to meet in era sessions to deal with specific matters. public. The policing board must have the power to The Minister’s new model has also been criti- request a report from the Garda Commissioner cised by the Human Rights Commission and the on any matter pertaining to policing. It should Irish Council for Civil Liberties, which have have the authority to establish short, medium and raised several concerns which we share. The long-term strategic priorities and objectives Human Rights Commission objects to the reten- together with the Commissioner as part of a pro- tion of the existing system of political appoint- cess of agreement on strategic and annual polic- ment of senior officers within the Garda, the ing plans. It should be responsible for monitoring broad discretionary powers granted to the Mini- performances as well as budget management ster with regard to the operation of the force and, against the agreed policing plans or any other in particular, section 23 which specifically directs indicators it regards as suitable. the Garda Commissioner to have regard to The board should have the power to make Government policy as well as to the law and rel- recommendations on resource allocation and evant regulations. This is not a formula for a pol- policy change to the Minister who would be icing service that is accountable to the public it obliged to take due regard of such recommend- serves, but for a police force that is accountable ations. It should also be able to refer matters as to Government parties first and foremost. This is appropriate to the Garda Ombudsman or not acceptable. Comptroller and Auditor General. It should be The ICCL agrees the Bill does not go far able, if necessary, to establish an independent enough to address the management crisis in the inquiry into any matters it regards pertinent. Pro- Garda Sı´ocha´na or the culture of denial and lack visions for such inquiries should be framed to of accountability. It further states that in granting emphasise the board’s independence. broader ministerial powers of oversight and In the interest of full public transparency and direction, the Bill “runs the risk of overcentralis- accountability, the board should be required to ation and politicising” of the force and “would publish annual reports of its activities. ultimately undermine its independence”. We 1057 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1058 would say it further politicises the force. The Mr. Ferris: Deputy O´ Caola´in and other Sinn ICCL rightly observes that “no other public body Fe´in Deputies asked the Minister to meet them in Ireland composed of more than 10,000 individ- and he denied them that. He has denied our uals can utilise as broad a range of discretionary equality of treatment in this House in terms of a powers with serious implications for human rights meeting to raise this issue with him. ... it is unacceptable to allow one ministerial posi- tion to exert such influence over the gardaı´”. I Mr. McDowell: Does the Deputy think there is welcome the ICCL endorsement of the policing a stigma in having a gun in his possession? He board model offered by Patten. brought a boatload of guns into this jurisdiction. Independence is not optional but a fundamen- tal cornerstone of democratic policing which is Mr. Ferris: I bring to the Minister’s attention why Sinn Fe´in is concerned about the Minister’s the case of the late John O’Shea who died tragi- failure to use this opportunity to establish a polic- cally when a Garda report influenced an inquest ing board for accountability and oversight. carried out by Professor Harbison who said that I have issues in my constituency of Kerry his judgment was formulated on what he was told North. I refer to a statement from Deputy Hayes by the gardaı´, namely, that the man died from regarding the Garda Sı´ocha´na Complaints Board. hypothermia. Yet under cross-examination from He states that very few complaints have been Michael Finucane he admitted that under oath, made. How many successful complaints have and he also changed his verdict. We and the gone before the complaints board? In my experi- family of the late John O’Shea have asked the ence it is a waste of time, which is regrettable. Minister for a proper independent investigation I must also bring to the attention of the Mini- into his death. Is it again because he is a member ster that Deputy O´ Snodaigh wrote to him on of Sinn Fe´in that his family was denied that? four occasions on 13 October 2002, 12 November We need accountability not only from the 2002, 28 February 2003 and 29 May Garda Sı´ocha´na but from the Minister to the 3 o’clock 2003 seeking that he meet Sinn Fe´in Deputies concerning a serious injus- people I represent and who democratically tice to a person in my constituency, James elected me. It is the people who decided to elect Sheehan. He was arrested on the grounds that a me and the other Sinn Fe´in Deputies, and the gun was allegedly discovered in his car. In a sub- Minister has no right to treat us as second class sequent search of his house 12 rounds of ammu- citizens. nition were discovered. A file was sent to the DPP. Seven years later he received a letter from Mr. McDowell: I have a right to point out that DPP informing him that the charges against him people like the Deputy get elected under false had been withdrawn even though he was never pretences. charged. Many Deputies raised a question on that case Mr. Ferris: I challenge the Minister to meet me with the Minister and all referrals in that respect and my colleagues concerning the two issues I were to the Garda Complaints Board. This case raised. represents a denial of equality of treatment. Is it Mr. McDowell: The Deputy never told the because we are Sinn Fe´in Deputies that we are people that he was a member of the army council. not entitled to a response from the Minister? Is it because the man in question was a Sinn Fe´in Mr. Ferris: I regret that I have to bring these member that we did not receive one? From 1988 issues to the floor of this House to get a response to the present day he has carried the stigma of a from the Minister. He has denied me and my col- gun having being discovered in his car, which he leagues a response. said was not there. He was never brought before the courts. Mr. McDowell: The Deputy will get a response.

Mr. McDowell: Is it a stigma for the Deputy to Mr. Ferris: The Minister has denied and have a gun in his possession? refused us a response. He has abused his office in denying us a response. I ask him to facilitate us Mr. Ferris: I am making a point even if the by having a meeting. I ask him as Minister for Minister does not want to listen to it. Justice, Equality and Law Reform and as a public representative of the people of this country to Mr. McDowell: The Deputy brought a boat- facilitate the people of this country who have load of guns into this country. been abused. I challenge him to do that. I hope the Minister will accept Sinn Fe´in’s con- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. structive amendments to strengthen the oversight and the management aspects of the proposed Mr. McDowell: How is it a stigma to have a legislation, as this will be necessary if our party is gun in a car? The Deputy never apologised for to support the Bill, which we very much want to doing that. do. We want a policing service that is account- 1059 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1060

[Mr. Ferris.] a long way to bring clarity and to restore confi- able, that has as its core equality and that rep- dence in the force. It will make it easy for a per- resents all our people equally. We want a policing son with a complaint to have it dealt with rather service like the one in the Six Counties with than depending on Deputies to ask questions, which all the people feel comfortable. being afraid to make a complaint or having a doubt about doing so. The procedure for dealing Mr. McDowell: I sincerely hope we will not with a complaint will be clear. While I receive few find certain equipment in the back of Sinn Fe´in complaints about gardaı´ it is important that there election workers’ vans. is a proper structure in place in which everyone has confidence. Mr. Ferris: I ask the Minister to consider the The existing structure for dealing with Garda proposals we have put forward. He should listen complaints is not old, it was set up in the 1980s for a change. He is not infallible. He does not and it has worked quite well. This structure is know everything. being put in place to affirm people’s faith in the system. The ombudsman commission will be a Mr. McDowell: I know a lot about the Deputy. positive measure in that respect. Since the foundation of the State the Garda Mr. Ferris: The Minister should listen to the Sı´ocha´na has played a pivotal role in safeguarding people who are talking to him. He should listen the public in the ever developing society in which to the relatives of the late John O’Shea. As of yet we live. In recent years the geographic and demo- we have not had an account from the gardaı´ of graphic make-up of Ireland has changed con- what happened that man on that night. The Mini- siderably. This Bill must provide the framework ster should read James Sheehan’s submission and for appropriate changes within the Garda Sı´och- his letter to him which stated what happened to a´na. By adequately reforming the law relating to him. As of yet, the Minister has not given him the administration and management of the Garda justice. Sı´ocha´na, this House can allow the force to meet An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Reference should the changing needs of society. To do so we must not be made to individuals. look to society and bring the experiences gained here to the gardaı´ and elsewhere. The Minister Mr. Ferris: I challenge the Minister to give and the rest of us are guilty of quoting figures, justice equally to all the people. comparing figures for various years. We must realise that life in 2005 is very different from life Mr. English: It is always more fun when the in 1996, 1997, 1981 and 1982. We have come a Minister is here; we are able to have much more long way. There is no point saying there are more of a debate on such issues. gardaı´ now than there were in those years. The I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak circumstances are different. We need more gardaı´ on the Bill. I wish to focus on some relevant now. The Minister’s party the other Government issues at national and local level which I hope will party pointed out that we needed an additional add to the Bill. 2,000 gardaı´ three years ago. I presume we need The Bill is badly needed. Its main objectives even more than that now. Everyone is aware that are to reform the law relating to the admin- society has changed. We need to adapt the force istration and management of the Garda Sı´ocha´na in terms of numbers and how its members do and to set up the ombudsman commission and their job if we are to properly serve and protect the Garda inspectorate. All three objectives are citizens and ensure they have confidence in the needed to bring clarity and inspire more public system. There is no point in comparing current confidence in the force. I receive very few com- figures with figures for previous years and I will plaints about gardaı´, as I am sure do most not do that. Deputies. The force is a big organisation with up This Bill paves the way for community policing to 14,000 members and there are bound to be a and for local authorities to become involved in few bad eggs. They are found in every organis- that. I and others dealt with gardaı´ when organis- ation, be it politics, the church, or the GAA. We ing the St. Patrick’s Day parade and festival in must accept that. In general, gardaı´ do an out- Navan, with which the Minister might not be fam- standing job and the force has much to be proud iliar. Like many other towns on that day last year, of. We owe its members a great deal and every- problems arose in Navan due to the abuse of body is aware of that. alcohol by young people. That was partly the It is important for us to put laws in place which fault of the organisers because we probably had will help restore the utmost faith in the Garda the wrong band playing in the wrong place which Sı´ocha´na to give people confidence in its drew the wrong crowd and other things happened members and to give gardaı´, including new which contributed to the problems that arose. people entering the force, confidence to stand tall Many of the problems arose from a lack of com- and proud. They do a tremendous job and we munication between the festival committee, the should be back them up. This legislation will go gardaı´ and other groups organising events. 1061 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1062

We decided this year to make sure that we got and policewomen they are not trained as police it right and the gardaı´ had the same approach. officers. This goes a long way towards freeing up We met three months in advance with the local the police to do the task for which they have been superintendent, Sargeant Gerry Smith, Sergeant trained. It can be seen that considerably more Sea´n Farrell, Sergeant Pat Gannon and a few scope exists for freeing up trained Garda person- others. I commend the excellent job they did. We nel to tackle crime on the front line. The woman met and discussed what would happen on the day I mentioned, who is the same age as I am, could and the week of the festival. There were three or not get a job in the Garda Sı´ocha´na despite her four meetings following that and everyone was qualifications. She would have to train in Temple- very clear about what had to be done, where more, serve some years on the beat and work her problems might arise and how we could solve way up. We are losing such people who could fit them without using brute force or muscle power in at different levels of the Garda Sı´ocha´na. but by simply having a presence and doing things Even if we recruit such people, I understand right. We followed the advice of the gardaı´ and they would need to complete an induction course. they listened to advice we gave them. However, to expect someone of 33 with two chil- On the day four or five times more gardaı´ than dren to leave a job and take a very low wage for last year were present, which made a major dif- up to two years is not sustainable. It is not a ference. The whole event went off without viable option for many people who would like to trouble. I believe three arrests were made, which find a role in the Garda Sı´ocha´na. We should find is expected during a normal weekend. This was a way to make it possible for people to enter at down to co-operation and everybody recognising different levels of the Garda or to move career they had a job to do. In the heat of that activity into the force. While it is acceptable for students the Garda foiled a robbery which otherwise might on leaving school to go to college for three or not have been caught. A few gentlemen decided four years without being paid, this does not work to come from Dublin to rob the local bookie and later in life. Perhaps scope exists for some of the were caught in the act as a result of the greater educational institutes to run a diploma or certifi- Garda presence. This shows it can help in running cate course in preparation for joining the Garda. an event smoothly, protecting a town and avoid- The Department of Justice, Equality and Law ing trouble on the streets while at the same time Reform does not need to organise all the training solving other crimes. This does not necessarily and the Minister may have some ideas on the need to involve gardaı´. The proposed volunteer matter. I presume the Bill will open the door to force could also get involved in running such such change. events as well as protecting the area from crimes While the new 35-year age limit for joining the such as robbery. Garda Sı´ocha´na is a significant improvement it is Freeing up Garda resources to work on the still too low and could easily be set at 40 or 45. I front line is of vital importance and we need to know that to get value for having trained gardaı´ recruit more civilian staff, for example, a psychol- we want to get 20 or 30 years service from them. ogist or press officer, to take over from Garda They could continue to work until 65 or even 70 officers who are qualified specifically to tackle and repay the State for their training. On the sub- crime. I do not see why the force needs a garda ject of training, how much retraining and contin- as its press officer. The political parties have press ual training and assessment of gardaı´ is carried officers who were not politicians before becoming out? While some people might question the press officers. There are plans to redeploy 300 or ability of some gardaı´ fresh out of training, 20 400 gardaı´, who are tied up doing specific duties, years later they might not be as active and might to work on the streets. The sooner this happens not have received scenario training etc. Other the better. While the Bill may pave the way for professions need to update their training and such change it is not spelt out. It gives more employees need regular retraining. power to the Commissioner to consider introduc- We need to recruit more civilians to carry out ing more civilians. Having trained members of the particular tasks in the force. Many clerical force carry out tasks that members of the public workers in the former health boards tell me they could do makes little sense. have no work to do and could be put to better In general the State boasts of an excellent use elsewhere. Without sacking anybody we workforce who have received a first-rate edu- could move people to different positions and get cation. It is now time to mobilise the people in better use from them. While it might not be poss- assisting the Garda Sı´ocha´na in its duties. I ible to get them to move immediately they could recently spoke to an Irish person who graduated do so after completing a short course. This would with a master’s degree in criminal psychology in free up gardaı´ to go and do the job they want to the UK. She now works in the police support staff do and for which they have been trained, which there having not been trained as a police officer. is working among the people solving and More than half if not two thirds of the police preventing crime. workforce in the UK is made up of support staff. Section 29 provides that the Garda Com- While I understand they are still called policemen missioner shall have direct responsibility for the 1063 Garda Sı´ocha´na Bill 2004: 14 April 2005. Second Stage (resumed) 1064

[Mr. English.] will not work. If we want community involvement distribution and stationing of members of the it must deliver results and people must see action. Garda Sı´ocha´na. This is probably the way it was, The Minister asked for comment on who which might have been acceptable in the past. should be involved in policing committees. Mem- However, we need to debate the provision of bership should not be confined to those involved funding for the development of new and existing in local authorities but should include members Garda stations. I wrote to the Minister about the of community organisations. While making these Garda station in Laytown, which is manned on a arrangements will present a major problem, it is part-time basis. The population along the east vital that membership is drawn from a broad coast has exploded and what once were small spectrum. Given that members of local auth- rural villages are now sprawling urban centres. orities, for example, can become conditioned and Residents demand a full-time and more dedicated may miss the point, the policing committees and presence from the Garda in this area. Will the fora must have a broad membership mix. Commissioner be given the resources to properly Section 32 requires local authorities to take police these areas? While Garda stations are action when requested to do so by the Garda for being closed in some areas, will new ones be pro- the purposes of facilitating the force in patrolling vided in areas of population growth? The infra- a certain area, prevent and solve crime and so structure needs to be established to allow for the forth. Issues such as the provision of lighting and stationing of gardaı´ in such centres of growth pedestrian walkways will need to be addressed to before crime gets out of control there. Often we allow the Garda to act, react and move around. act too slowly and by the time we realise we need Certain Government policies, however, will to appoint more gardaı´ to an area the damage has prevent local authorities from taking the neces- already been done. This could have been sary action. Pedestrian walkways between adjac- prevented by having gardaı´ in place from the ent estates, for example, are often the location start. While I understand we do not have an end- of trouble and anti-social behaviour. These and less number of gardaı´ to move around, we need certain corners or end rows in estates tend to to consider taking some action in this regard. become the local hang-out area. Planning rules When the Commissioner is deliberating as to requiring pedestrian access points, therefore, where to station the gardaı´ the Minister might cause disputes between local authority members point out to him the following information on my and planners. county. In 1996, Navan had one garda for every As a local councillor, I argued, for example, 270 people, which was the same as it had been in that certain access points would cause major 1981. We now have one garda for every 450 to trouble because to push people from other parts 500 people. While I know people will say it is not of a town through an estate is to ask for trouble, necessary to have gardaı´ everywhere, people given that people from different estates do not want to see a Garda presence and we need to often mix well. Planners are able to throw back realise we are short on personnel. The Louth- the argument that no changes can be made Meath division now has seven fewer sergeants. because an alleyway or access point is stipulated With the population increasing some criminal under planning rules. There is scope for change elements have moved from Dublin into the in this regard to enable community gardaı´ to region. We should be reacting to this by having identify minor problems and request local auth- more criminal units. The counties of Meath and orities and community policing committees to Louth have insufficient PULSE computers for take action. the gardaı´ to do their job and they spend much Community policing is a brilliant initiative time travelling to stations with a computer, which which does not enjoy the prestige it deserves. In seems strange in this modern day and age. addition, community gardaı´ do not always receive Chapter 4 of the Bill addresses co-operation the respect or opportunities they deserve. My with local authorities and arrangements for local area has several community gardaı´ who do obtaining the views of the public. Earlier I excellent work in solving and preventing crimes. referred to our experience in Navan with the St. For example, they are involved with young Patrick’s festival. I fully support the concept of people through a range of organisations. At a local authorities working with the Garda in com- recent committee meeting, members were mittees and forums. The Bill suggests that the informed that a senior garda once described com- sergeant does not necessarily need to act on the munity policing is an “unaffordable luxury”. This outcome of such meetings. While we cannot form of policing is not unaffordable when one expect these forums to tell a sergeant what to do, takes a long-term perspective because it will solve he or she should be strongly encouraged to act on and prevent problems. Furthermore, it is a the recommendations of those committees. The necessity, not a luxury. We need gardaı´ who are local authorities and voluntary groups involved in involved in all aspects of community life. those committees will want to see results. There The debate about community policing tends to is no point in turning up every few months for a focus on towns. Community gardaı´ are also chat, shaking hands and going off again — that required in rural areas and villages to mix with 1065 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1066 people and prevent crime among all groups, not terms of the interplay between the citizen and the only young people. For example, a community institutions of the State in regard to law. garda should step in and warn those whom he or The Bill does not provide for the appointment she suspects may be drink driving or driving a car of an ombudsman but proposes to establish a with technical faults that he or she will be caught. three-person commission. The weakness of this The pat on the shoulder and warning to cop one- proposal is that essentially the buck will not stop self on used to be common crime deterrents and with a specific individual. A similar problem is should be one of the features of community evident in the case of children presenting in policing. schools with anti-social behaviour. In such cases, The proposal to introduce a volunteer reserve many agencies will become involved in dealing force reflects a similar move in the United with the child but the weakness is that there is no Kingdom. It is an excellent idea which should bottom line co-ordination and no single individ- proceed. The Minister’s target is to recruit a force ual has ultimate responsibility for the child. Chil- numbering 1,400. He will have to consider dren in these circumstances will then go through whether background checks will be required the education system, being passed from Billy to because retired members of other organisations Jack, so to speak, and will leave school without being properly prepared for the world outside. may wish to volunteer. While the establishment I tabled a number of parliamentary questions of a new force will be a considerable task, I hope to the Minister recently regarding a statement by a pool of expertise will become available and the the Governor of Mountjoy Prison, Mr. John volunteers will be free to do a range of duties. I Lonergan, that he believe there is a significant am not convinced they should have the same level level of ADD among prisoners. I have heard of of responsibility as members of the Garda Sı´och- research carried out in the United States which a´na. It could create problems if volunteers with appears to indicate that a large proportion of the less training and pay were allowed to perform the prison population suffers from ADD. Treatment same role as fully trained, full-time gardaı´. The is available for ADD, ADHD and ODD, which new force offers a way forward in that it will add are learning disabilities with an anti-social base. to current resources and provide more people on There are many elements to crime. The manner the ground to do policing work. in which individuals develop in the system can be Many Garda duties could be carried out by conducive to later involvement in crime. A great other bodies. I support the decision to privatise deal can be done in this regard. the operation of speed cameras, for instance, but I do not understand the reason that, under law, Debate adjourned. the number of people permitted to direct or con- trol traffic is so restrictive. Will the Minister con- Ceisteanna — Questions. sider allowing staff of local authorities to be trained to direct traffic? Many of our towns suf- fering from infrastructural deficits could make Priority Questions. good use of local authority personnel, rather than gardaı´, during heavy traffic periods, for example, ———— at rush hour or in the event of breakdowns or oil Irish Language. spills. Traffic wardens could be trained for this purpose. A little imagination is required. Will the 1. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Minister confirm that the Bill leaves a door open Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an for alternatives to be explored and, where neces- bhfuil aird a´ tabhairt aige ar na tuairimı´ agus na sary, implemented? moltaı´ i dTuairisc Bhliantu´ il an Choimisine´ara Teanga agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina Mr. O’Shea: I will make a few brief points on dtaobh. [11558/05] the Bill in the short time available to me. It is a Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht pity no consultation or discussion process, such Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Mar is eol don Teachta, as that undertaken by the Patten Commission in ta´ se´ molta ag an gCoimisine´ir Teanga ina Northern Ireland, was carried out prior to the thuarasca´il tionscnaimh, mar ata´ molta agam fe´in, drafting and publication of the Bill. People must go bhfuil ga´ le dı´ospo´ ireacht na´isiu´ nta maidir le buy into law and unless they are involved and mu´ ineadh na Gaeilge sna scoileanna. Ta´ tagairt engaged there is a strong possibility they will be de´anta aige freisin maidir le ce´ chomh hannamh more suspicious than is warranted when the legis- is a mbı´onn dı´ospo´ ireachtaı´ trı´ Ghaeilge i dTithe lation is finally produced. While the Minister an Oireachtais. could contend that appointing a commission Ta´ an tuarasca´il dı´rithe go prı´omha, ar ndo´ igh, before producing legislation would cause delay, ar an obair a bhı´ ar bun ag an oifig o´ bunaı´odh ı´ the exercise would be worthwhile, not only in ag tu´ s na bliana anuraidh. Fa´iltı´mgomo´ r roimh terms of getting the Bill right but also in cultivat- an tuarasca´il seo. Ta´im ag tnu´ th go mo´ r, sna ing a sense of ownership which is important in blianta beaga amach romhainn, le toradh nı´ 1067 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1068

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] fadhbanna trı´ obair laethu´ il ag bogadh rudaı´ ar hamha´in ar shaothar mo Roinne fe´in i nda´il le aghaidh. sce´imeanna faoi Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la a Is do´ cha go bhfaca an Teachta fo´ gra ag Fhoras aontu´ le comhlachtaı´ poiblı´, ach freisin ar na Gaeilge ag iarraidh co´ ras ca´ilı´ochtaı´ ag baint le shaothar Oifig an Choimisine´ara Teanga maidir haistritheoirı´.Ta´ sin riachtanach mar caithfimid le monato´ ireacht a dhe´anamh agus comhairle a bheith cinnte go bhfuil an caighdea´n ann. chur ar fa´il faoi fheidhmiu´ na sce´imeanna sin. Caithfidh cu´ rsaı´ cuı´ trı´u´ leibhe´al a bheith ar fa´il Nı´l aon amhras ach go bhfuil obair agus fosta. Is chuige sin go ndearna me´ airgeadu´ ar du´ shla´nmo´ r romhainn i re´imsı´ e´agsu´ la maidir le Acadamh na hOllscolaı´ochta Gaeilge. Is chuige caomhnu´ agus forbairt na Gaeilge. Is cinnte go sin go raibh me´ chomh tacu´ il leis an obair ata´ ar bhfuil ionchur ta´bhachtach de´anta ag an bun ag Cola´iste na hOllscoile i nGaillimh ag gCoimisine´ar Teanga san dı´ospo´ ireacht phoiblı´ bunadh na hionaid seachtracha, ceann acu i faoi na re´imsı´ sin. nGaoth Dobhair agus pe´ire i mo dha´ilcheantar An me´id sin ra´ite, is eol don Teachta, nı´ fola´ir, fe´in. Ta´ an ceart ag an Teachta, ta´ ga´ le hoiliu´ int. go bhfuil Fo´ ram na Gaeilge bunaithe agam chun Ta´ me´ tar e´is ple´ a dhe´anamh le go leor gru´ paı´ comhairle a thabhairt dom ar shaincheisteanna a agus daoine e´agsu´ la, lucht na hollscoile ina bhaineann le cur chun cinn na Gaeilge, ina measc measc, go leanu´ nach agus ceann de na rudaı´ a inmholtacht plean straite´iseach 20 bliain le du´ irt me´ na´ go gcaithfimid breathnu´ ar an spriocanna re´alaı´ocha a re´iteach don Ghaeilge sa margadh anois. Don che´ad uair riamh, caithfidh Sta´t agus na tosaı´ochtaı´ maidir le cur i bhfeidhm an t-oideachas agus an margadh bheith fite-fuaite Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la. lena che´ile. Don che´ad uair i riamh nı´l daoine ag de´anamh staide´ir ar an Ghaeilge ar chu´ iseanna Mr. McGinley: Ta´ gar de´anta ag an teibı´,ta´ postanna ann. Caithfimid breathnu´ ar an Choimisine´ir Teanga do na Gaeilge agus go margadh agus na riachtanais agus na cu´ rsaı´ bhfuil se´ i ndiaidh cur os comhair a´r gcuid su´ ile oiliu´ na agus ollscolaı´ochta a bheith ann le freastal fı´ricı´ a bhı´ ansin le fada — chomh fada agus a air sin. Ta´ riar de sin ar bun le bunadh na gcu´ rsaı´ bhaineann se´ leis an Ghaeilge sa cho´ ras aistriu´ cha´in sna hinstitiu´ daı´ trı´u´ leibhe´al, rud oideachais agus u´ sa´id na Gaeilge sa Da´il. An nach raibh ar fa´il cu´ pla bliain o´ shin. aonto´ dh an tAire liom, anois nuair ata´ Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la a´ chur i bhfeidhm, go Mr. McGinley: An bhfuil an tAire sa´sta go mbeidh e´ilimh i bhfad nı´os mo´ agus nı´os leithne bhfuil se´ ar a chumas an tseirbhı´s seo a chur ar ar dhaoine ag a bhfuil ard-chumas Gaeilge fa´il go fo´ ill agus go bhfuil na daoine againn faoi labhartha agus, go speisialta, scrı´ofa leis na la´thair? tuairiscı´ seo a chur ar fa´il ar son na mbord Sta´it? Pointe eile a rinne an coimisine´ir na´ easpa Ceann de na deacrachtaı´ is mo´ ata´ ag na Ranna Gaeilge agus phle´ muid anseo e´.Du´ irt an tAire seo agus na heagrais seo na´ daoine a fha´il go gurbh fhe´idir le TG4 nı´os mo´ a dhe´anamh le bhfuil caighdea´n cuı´ ard go leor Gaeilge acu leis poiblı´ocht a thabhairt don me´id Gaeilge a an obair tha´bhachtach seo a dhe´anamh. An bhfuil labhartar anseo. An ndearna se´ teagmha´il le TG4 aon phleananna ar siu´ llede´anamh cinnte go faoi sin? An bhfuil teagmha´il de´anta aige leis an mbeidh na daoine ar fa´il a bheidh ar a gcumas e´ Aire Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta a bhfuil cu´ ramaı´ seo a dhe´anamh? Ma´ bhaineann an teanga sta´das theagasc na Gaeilge uirthi faoin dualgas ata´ oifigiu´ il amach san AE, agus ta´ dul chun cinn orainn daoine le Gaeilge ar chaighdea´n ard a chur de´anta ansin ar na mallaibh, beidh e´ileamh ar an ar fa´il? chinea´l che´anna daoine. Cad iad na pleananna ata´ againn fa´ choinne an chorps de dhaoine ard- E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Maidir leis an Aire Oideachais oilte sa teanga a chur ar fa´il a dhe´anfaidh freastal agus Eolaı´ochta, bı´onn ple´ leanu´ nach idir an ar riachtanais Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la agus bheirt againn agus idir a´r Ranna fosta. i riachtanais sta´das oifigiu´ il san Eoraip. Ba mhaith liom go mbogfadh rudaı´ ar aghaidh nı´os gasta ach tuigeann an Teachta na´du´ ran E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Ta´ an Teachta tar e´is teacht go cho´ rais. Nı´ dhearna me´ iarratas oifigiu´ il le TG4 gcroı´ na ceiste. Phle´ muid an cheist seo nuair a ach ta´ me´ cinnte go bhfuil se´ eolach faoin me´id a bhı´ an tAcht teanga d’fheidhmiu´ agus arı´s nuair du´ irt me´.Isdo´ cha go bhfuair se´ poiblı´ocht an- a bhı´ ple´ ar bun maidir leis an Ghaeilge san AE. mhaith agus nach ga´ domsa e´ sinara´ go dı´reach. Ag an am sin, chuir mise be´im ar cheist sola´thar Nı´or mhaith liom go gceapfaı´ go raibh me´ ag daoine lena seirbhı´sı´ a chur ar fa´il agus nach raibh tabhairt treoracha d’aon eagraı´ocht craolacha´in aon mhaith leagan sı´os sa dlı´ go mbeadh chuile sa tı´r seo ceard le de´anamh ach ta´ an moladh a chinea´l seirbhı´se ann mura mbeadh na daoine rinne me´ ar eolas ag TG4 agus bheadh su´ il agam ann lena gcur ar fa´il. go mbreathno´ dh an sta´isiu´ ngoba´u´ il air. Bheadh Ta´ go leor ar bun. Bı´onn daoine ag ceapadh se´ thar chinn don Teach seo. Ag deireadh an lae, gurbh e´ an bealach is fearr fadhbanna a re´iteach ta´ muid ag caint ar chraoladh seirbhı´se poiblı´ agus na´ le holl-phlean mo´ rno´ oll-spriocanna mo´ ra — ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach go bhfreastalo´ faı´ air sin. the big bang approach. Re´itear an chuid is mo´ Caithfear spa´s a thabhairt do TG4 breathnu´ air. 1069 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1070

2. D’fhiafraigh Mr. O’Shea den Aire Gno´ thaı´ sprioc re´alaı´och le baint amach. Ta´ muid a´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta ar tha´inig a dhe´anamh pı´osa ar phı´osa, mar a rinne me´ le Roinn fe´in agus an Roinn Oideachais agus tuarasca´il Choimisiu´ in na Gaeltachta, agus ag cur Eolaı´ochta le che´ile fo´ s chun breithniu´ a na brı´cı´ in a´it. Ag deireadh an lae bheadh su´ il dhe´anamh ar mholtaı´ an ghru´ pa oibre a bunaı´odh agam go mbainfı´ amach na spriocanna leagtha i 2002 chun ceist an oideachais trı´ Ghaeilge a sı´os sa tuarasca´il. Baineann siad le rudaı´ a mbı´m phle´; agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina leith. ag caint fu´ thu — tuilleadh cu´ rsaı´ ar fa´il agus [10305/05] tuilleadh maoiniu´ chun iad a chur ar fa´il. Nı´ raibh aon rud re´abhlo´ ideach ann nach mbeadh duine E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Glacaim go bhfuil an Teachta ag su´ il leis i dtuarasca´il den chinea´l sin. ag de´anamh tagairt do thuarasca´il an ghru´ pa oibre idir-ghnı´omhaireachta don oideachas trı´u´ Creidim fe´in, a´fach, go bhfuil muid ag leibhe´al sa Ghaeltacht. mu´ ineadh rudaı´ trı´ Ghaeilge ar mhaithe leo a Bunaı´odh an gru´ pa oibre sin sa bhliain 2002 mhu´ ineadh trı´ Ghaeilge agus anois ta´ muid ag faoi chathaoirleacht na Roinne Oideachais agus iarraidh go mbeidh daoine ca´ilithe agus Gaeilge Eolaı´ochta le hionadaithe o´ n Roinn sin, o´ mo mhaith acu leis na folu´ ntais ata´ sa gco´ ras ag e´irı´ Roinn, o´ nU´ dara´s um Ard-Oideachas agus o´ as an Acht teanga a chomhlı´onadh. Ta´ mu´ inteoirı´ U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta chun plean forbartha don bunscoile le scoth na Gaeilge ag teasta´il o´ na oideachas trı´u´ leibhe´al sa Ghaeltacht, a bhı´ Gaelscoileanna. Ta´ an riachtanas ann so ba cheart re´itithe ag gru´ pa ollscoileanna, a mheas. go mbeidh an co´ ras oideachais in ann de´ilea´il leis Cuireadh tuarasca´il agus moltaı´ an ghru´ pa faoi sin. Nı´l aon amhras ach go mbeidh e´ileamh an- mo bhra´id agus faoi bhra´id an Aire Oideachais mho´ r le haistritheoirı´,gomo´ r mho´ r nuair a agus Eolaı´ochta anuraidh. O´ mo thaobh, ta´im ag thiocfadh an Ghaeilge mar theanga oifigiu´ il san breathnu´ ar na moltaı´ agus ar na fe´idearachtaı´ AE. Beimid ag iarraidh chuile sho´ rt agus tig leis an Teachta a bheith cinnte de go feidhmeannaigh de chuile chinea´l sna seirbhı´sı´ mbı´onn teagmha´il idir mo Roinn agus an Roinn Sta´it e´agsu´ la le seirbhı´s a chur ar fa´il de bharr an Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta ar bhonn leanu´ nach. Achta teanga. Anois, caithfidh me´ breathnu´ ar Mar is eol don Teachta, ta´ se´ leagtha sı´os mar ce´n caoi a chuirfimid an oiliu´ int sin ar fa´il. Ba sprioc ag mo Roinn ina ra´iteas straite´ise don mhaith liom go mbeidh ceangal i bhfad nı´os mo´ tre´imhse 2003-05 go bhfe´achfar le “ceist leis an oideachas agus an margadh na´ mar a oideachais trı´u´ leibhe´al trı´ Ghaeilge a chur chun bhı´odh. cinn”. Ar ndo´ igh, is faoi chu´ ram an Aire Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta go prı´omha ata´ an Mr. O’Shea: Imodha´ilcheantar, bhı´ teagmha´il fhreagracht sin. Agus e´ sin ra´ite, aithnı´m go bhfuil idir Institiu´ id Teicneolaı´ochta Phort La´irge agus ceist an oideachais trı´u´ leibhe´al mar thosaı´ocht fı´or-tha´bhachtach do thodhchaı´ na Gaeilge agus Gaeltacht na Rinne. D’oscail an tAire an scoil mar riachtanas ar leith o´ thaobh chur i bhfeidhm nua, Scoil San Niocla´s, sa Rinn. Bhı´ an scoil sin an Achta teanga. riartha ag coiste a´itiu´ il le fada an la´.Ta´ dha´ Ta´ fonn speisialta orm go gcuirfear an cheist shaghas oideachais ann, oideachas don gna´th- seo ar aghaidh, ach go ha´irithe i gcomhthe´acs an dalta ach cad faoi daoine ata´ ag dul ar ais i mbun phle´ a bhı´ againn dı´reach anois i gcomhthe´acs oideachais? An fe´idir le hU´ dara´s na Gaeltachta thuarasca´il an Coimisine´ara Teanga, agus beidh airgead a chur ar fa´il do second chance education me´ ag tnu´ th le tuilleadh comhoibrithe o´ mo sa Ghaeltacht? chomhghleacaı´, an tAire Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta, chun na crı´che sin amach anseo. E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Ta´ sin ar bun cheana fe´in. Nı´l na figiu´ irı´ agam faoi ce´ mhe´ad a chaitheann an t- Mr. O’Shea: An bhfe´adfadh an tAire a insint u´ dara´s ag tacu´ le daoine le cu´ rsaı´ trı´ Ghaeilge a du´ inn cad iad na moltaı´ a tha´inig amach o´ obair dhe´anamh. Is maith an rud e´ ar an gcoinnı´oll nach an ghru´ pa sin? An dtarlo´ idh rud e´igin bhfuil daoine a mhaoiniu´ le cu´ rsaı´ mar sin a substaintiu´ il anois mar gheall air no´ an mbeimid dhe´anamh a bheadh in ann an t-oideachas a ag cur ceisteanna mar seo go deo? mhaoiniu´ iad fe´in. Caithfimid bheith cu´ ramach. Ta´ an maoiniu´ sin ar fa´il ag an u´ dara´s le dioplo´ ma E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Tarlo´ idh agus, go deimhin, sa Ghaeilge agus cu´ rsaı´ craolacha´in ag Cola´iste tharla roinnt rudaı´ cheana fe´in, mar shampla, ´ ´ bunaı´odh Acadamh na hOllscolaı´ochta Gaeilge. na hOllscoile i nGaillimh. Cuireann an t-udaras Caithfimid oibriu´ leis an gco´ ras i gco´ naı´.Nı´l aon cu´ namh ar fa´il do na daoine o´ n Ghaeltacht ata´ ag amhras orm ach gur fe´idir linn dul chun mo´ ra freastal ar na cu´ rsaı´ sin. Ta´ e´ileamh mo´ rarna dhe´anamh i lı´ne leis an tuarasca´il seo ach cur cu´ rsaı´.Ta´ ca´ilı´ochta a´irithe ag go leor de na chuige ceart a bheith foighdeach agus an co´ ras a daoine ag de´anamh cu´ rsaı´ aistriu´ cha´in no´ ag a oibriu´ .Isfe´idir a shamhlu´ go raibh impleachtaı´ raibh togha na Gaeilge acu mar gur cainteoirı´ airgid i gceist. Nı´l aon mhaith dom a mhalairt a du´ chasacha iad le cruinneas agus te´ann ar ais le ra´.E´ sin ra´ite, nı´ raibh na himpleachtaı´ airgid cu´ rsaı´ foirmiu´ la a dhe´anamh. Is daoine fa´sta a chomh mo´ r sin is nach bhfe´adfaidı´s a bheith mar la´n acu. 1071 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1072

CLA´ R Programme. selected or recommended by the relevant Depart- ments, State agencies, LEADER groups and 3. Mr. McHugh asked the Minister for Com- local authorities in consultation with my munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number Department. and details of projects his Department has funded ´ In addition, under the non-national roads under the CLAR programme in east Galway; the measure, allocations from a \6 million co-fund number and details of applications refused under with the Department of the Environment, Heri- this programme in east Galway; the number and tage and Local Government, which I announced details of projects awaiting processing under this in February, were made to each local authority programme in east Galway; the amount of fund- based on the county’s percentage of the total ing allocated to east Galway as a percentage of CLA´ R population. However, as the local auth- the overall CLA´ R funding programme; and if he orities select the projects, neither my Department will make a statement on the matter. [11494/05] nor the Department of the Environment, Heri- tage and Local Government has any discretion in E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: CLA´ R funds, or co-funds with the selection of projects save for their being in a other Departments, State agencies and local auth- CLA´ R area and meeting the terms of the orities, investment in selected priority devel- measure. opments. These investments are made through a There are 70 district electoral divisions in series of measures that support physical, econ- county Galway which are included in the CLA´ R omic and social infrastructure such as roads, programme. Of these, 43 are in east Galway. water and sewerage, village, housing and schools Funding for projects in these DEDs under the enhancement, health, electricity conversion and various measures in the programme totals nearly sports and community projects. No specific allo- \1.3 million from 2002 to date in 2005. Commit- cations are made to the CLA´ R areas of counties ments entered into for the comparable period and from each year’s Estimates provision for the yet to be drawn down amount to more than programme. Some measures are demand led \580,000. The total spend in east Galway since while in other cases the projects are by and large the inception of the programme is as follows:

2002 2003 2004 2005

\562,000 \394,000 \309,000 \4,000

As % of total CLA´ R spend As % of total CLA´ R spend As % of total CLA´ R spend As % of total CLA´ R spend 4% 4% 3% 0.4%

As it is not practical to provide all the infor- reply, the Minister said that there are approxi- mation here, I am arranging to send the Deputy mately 27 DEDs in the CLA´ R area in Galway full details, by DED, of expenditure and commit- West and approximately 43 DEDs in the CLA´ R ments made but not yet drawn down in respect area in Galway East. Does the Minister agree of each CLA´ R measure. that, looking at last year’s allocations under the programme, Galway West benefited by a factor Mr. McHugh: I thank the Minister for his reply, of approximately 3:1 over and above Galway but does he not agree that the small amount of East? information given in his reply is very disap- I can give the Minister some examples if I have pointing from the perspective of Galway East? sufficient time. Under the LIS roads funded Does the Minister recall how the CLA´ R prog- CLA´ R programme in 2004, there were nine roads ramme was warmly welcomed when it was in Galway West to the value of \100,000 while launched? The Minister came to Galway east as there were three roads in Galway East to the part of the promotional tour for the programme. value of \26,000. In 2004, there were four small I was also enthusiastic about the programme public water and sewerage schemes funded under because I thought it would deliver many parts of the CLA´ R programme in Galway West and two my constituency from the misery and neglect they schemes in Galway East. That is not a factor of have suffered over a number of years. Does the 3:1 but when one examines the money, one will Minister agree that, from a Galway East perspec- find that this is a much greater multiple of 3:1 in tive, my optimism was without foundation? Does favour of Galway West. The figures were he further agree that this programme has been a \680,000 for Galway West and \131,000 for failure from the perspective of my constituents in Galway East. This is particularly relevant for that it has not helped them? communities like Milltown, Glenamaddy and The Minister and I share the same county but Creggs. The Minister has visited Creggs. The different constituencies. Does the Minister agree town has an inadequate sewerage system. They that his constituency of Galway West has ben- are crying out for some form of Government efited much more from the CLA´ R programme assistance to help improve their lot but no help than my constituency of Galway East? In his is coming. It concerns me that this programme, 1073 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1074 though brilliant in theory, does not deliver in E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Even though I live in the west my constituency. of the county, if the council wishes to spend that The Minister visited Dunmore recently—— money in the east of the county, it can. I will go through this with the Deputy for an hour or 30 An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: The Deputy minutes at some time if he wishes. I will go should confine himself to a brief statement. through it line by line to show him that I cannot and do not in any way influence the specific Mr. McHugh: Does the Minister agree that choices made in respect of the CLA´ R prog- three CLA´ R-Leader village and countryside ramme. Everything is objective and fair. If there enhancement schemes were sanctioned for is an east-west bias in County Galway, it is one Galway West in 2004 and only one for Galway of two things, either the western community is East? This is particularly relevant in cases such as more active or the county council favours the Dunmore. Will the Minister reply? west over the east. This would be amazing, implying the seven members from the west can Mr. McGinley: Do not embarrass the Minister out-manoeuvre the 23 members from the east. further. Mr. McHugh: Are we not automatically—— E´ amon O´ Cuıv: The Deputies and Senators ´ An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We must proceed. from Galway East amaze me. It is obvious they do not know how these schemes work. I will out- Mr. McGinley: If only other Galway men could line the position quickly to show Deputy McHugh agree with the Minister. that, if something is happening, it is because the local authority has made certain decisions. It is E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: We can go into this matter in out of my hands. more detail in the committee. I am open to We made an allocation of approximately suggestions. This allegation—— \498,000 to Galway County Council for non- national roads and told the council to select the An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: We must con- project. We had no input in the selection process tinue with the next question. whatsoever. The only criteria were that they must be class two or class three roads, that no project E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: I would love to continue this could cost over \30,000 unless it is a bridge and debate but I must bow to the ruling of the Chair. it must have been in a CLA´ R area. There was more work done in the east of the county than Bullying in the Workplace. the west in 2004, but that was a matter for the 4. Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Com- local authority as I had no say in the matter. As munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the main the Deputy knows, there are more councillors findings of the independent investigation into from the east than the west. He should have his alleged incidents of bullying and harassment and councillors sort that out. the so-called culture of patronage in Waterways Coillte picked its designated roads in consul- Ireland; the measures being adopted to ensure tation with local authorities. I had no input in fair play and best practice within that organis- that. The LIS roads are in the same situation. The ation; and if he will make a statement on the position is simple, an initial allocation is made by matter. [11557/05] the Department of the Environment, Heritage ´ ´ and Local Government. For every \2 spent in any Eamon O Cuı´v: An investigation into alle- CLA´ R area in the county, we allocate another \1. gations of bullying, harassment and related The selection of the supplementary roads funded matters in Waterways Ireland has been jointly carried out, with the consent of the parties by CLA´ R moneys is a matter for the local auth- involved, by independent investigators appointed ority and we have no input as long as the projects by my Department and the Department of Cul- are inside CLA´ R areas. If there is an east-west ture, Arts and Leisure in the North. The report bias it is within the county council and has of the investigators has been submitted to the nothing to do with me as Minister. If its members Departments and its conclusions and recom- favour the east I bow to their wishes and, simi- mendations have been considered and accepted larly, if they favour the west I bow to their wishes. by both. Group water schemes and public water On 4 April 2005, my Department and the schemes are dealt with on demand. An allocation Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure issued of a block grant is made by the Department of a joint statement on the matter. The statement the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- was copied by my office to the Deputy on that ment and spending is at the discretion of the date. In line with the normal confidentiality that council, but if any of that grant is spent in a applies to personnel matters, the Departments CLA´ R area, we automatically back it euro for stated that they do not propose to publish the euro. However, I have no discretion in this. report of the investigators. However, their joint statement included a summary of the findings of Mr. McGinley: The Minister lives in the west. the investigators, as well as the actions to be 1075 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1076

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] to ensure there is proper corporate management taken following the findings, as agreed by the within this important body? Departments with the chief executive of Water- ways Ireland. It is not proposed to make any E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Once allegations were made a further comment about the investigation. step-by-step procedure that is much too long to However, I reiterate that I welcome this oppor- go through now was agreed upon and investi- tunity to again acknowledge the efforts of the gators were appointed. As situations such as this chief executive and staff of Waterways Ireland in have arisen in the past in which people agreed a advancing the work of this important North- procedure but did not find the answer they South body, often in complex and difficult cir- desired, we understand that these things can hap- cumstances. As I stated in the House in pen. A procedure was followed in this case and December 2004, the promotion of North-South has been brought to a conclusion. The detailed co-operation in areas within my Department’s information I have does not coincide with the remit remains a high priority for me and I will Deputy’s statement. continue to support the work of the North-South I understand that allegations were made con- bodies responsible for inland waterways and lang- cerning the exercise of political influence in uage matters in particular in every way possible. respect of two appointments and that this matter did not fall within the terms of refer- Mr. McGinley: Did the Minister see or read 4 o’clock ence of the investigation. This was all the report? agreed beforehand. One cannot agree the rules of a game and not play by them. E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: I did not read the report in However, I and my Department are certain that detail. This is an industrial relations issue. A no such influences were involved and I reject any mechanism was put in place and the appropriate allegations about that. Concerns were expressed steps have been taken. in the report about the process followed leading to these appointments in Waterways Ireland. Mr. McGinley: Did the Minister see or read These have all been addressed in new procedures. the report? The Deputy can take that as read. I have made sure of that and have gone into all those details. E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Yes, I saw the report and am I was much more concerned about making sure sure the appropriate steps were taken. that once we agreed a process to deal with the issue, it would be followed to the letter of the law Mr. McGinley: If the Minister has seen and and would come to a full conclusion. The second read the report, he must agree that the joint state- issue was to put steps in place to ensure whatever ment issued by both Departments is the greatest failings identified in the first process would not whitewash and fiction to come out of any Depart- happen again. ment in my memory. The report was specific The investigator acknowledged that no criti- whereas the so-called summary has avoided the cism was being made of the individuals involved main issues. Lying at the core of this are bullying, nor was it being suggested that they were unsuit- appointments and promotions. These three areas able for the posts. The investigator raised no were specifically and bluntly addressed in the issues in regard to the validity of the appointment report. The report had no hesitation upon finding and the two sponsor Departments have accepted that these incidents represent examples of bully- this. When one sends in an investigator, one must ing and highly inappropriate behaviour on the agree with the result. part of a senior manager. Very serious questions were also asked about appointments and pro- Mr. McGinley: I have no difficulty with the motions. When will we see the report? The sum- findings of the investigator. As far as I know, they mary is utterly misleading. have been accepted by everyone. We have some difficulty with the joint statement issued burying E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: It is not. the findings of the investigator. Given that it has been accepted by the investigation that there Mr. McGinley: It avoids the issue and deals were incidents of bullying, have any disciplinary with peripheral matters rather than those at the measures been taken to ensure that does not hap- core. I would quote from it if the Leas-Cheann pen again? Comhairle allowed me to, but will the Minister make the report available to Members of the E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: I think the Deputy is mis- House so that we can judge for ourselves? reading this. People have said—— Have steps been taken to ensure Waterways Ireland’s corporate procedures are being carried Mr. McGinley: Did the report say there was out? This is an important cross-Border organis- bullying? ation established as a result of the Good Friday Agreement and has implications much wider than E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: No, it did not. Republic or Northern politics. It has implications for the peace process. What measures are being Mr. McGinley: The Minister saw the report but taken and what procedures are being put in place I did not. 1077 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1078

E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: I am telling the Deputy what is Comhairle na Tuaithe consists of representa- in the report. It said the allegations of harassment tives from the farming organisations, recreational were not upheld. users of the countryside and State bodies with an interest in the countryside. It has approached its Mr. McGinley: My understanding is that it work in the spirit of co-operation and through specifically said there were incidents of bullying. working groups which progress components of The only way we will solve this is to get our hands these aims. on the report. The most recent meeting of Comhairle na Tuaithe was held on 7 March 2005. Working E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: The investigation grouped the group meetings are scheduled in the near future allegations into four main strands. Those strands and the next meeting of Comhairle na Tuaithe is and the findings of the investigation are set out. planned for early May 2005. I look forward to The allegations of harassment, which is another receiving a report from Comhairle na Tuaithe fol- word for bullying, were not upheld. lowing its consideration of the issues arising. I will carefully consider any proposals which Comhairle Mr. McGinley: The Minister has seen the na Tuaithe may make to me. report. I have not seen it but I am told those alle- However, as I have made clear on a number of gations were upheld. occasions, it is only through working together as a community on this issue and reaching an ami- Access to Waymarked Ways. cable agreement which accommodates all sides 5. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Com- that these issues can best be addressed. We can munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he was then strengthen the positive image of rural correctly quoted in a publication (details Ireland and, crucially, further develop rural supplied) of 11 February 2005 in which it was tourism. reported that walkers using mountain walkways could possibly be charged a fee; and his views on Mr. Boyle: I take it from the Minister’s reply whether a statement of this type compromises the that he was misquoted in the report in The work of bodies he has established to deal with the Connacht Tribune of 11 February in which he is issue. [11493/05] reported to have spoken to a Fianna Fa´il cum- man. I understand what the linguistic gymnastics E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: I have no proposals for the in talking to such a gathering might involve and introduction of fees for the use of walkways. I how it might be interpreted in such a way. Will have made clear my view that a local community- the Minister state that the quote was not rep- based approach is the way forward where issues of access to the countryside arise. I established resentative of his views or of any policy of the the consultation group on access to waymarked Government? While there are legitimate issues to ways in April 2003 to consider the issues that had be tackled in regard to the liability of landowners arisen in relation to access to some waymarked and how they can be protected in situations ways following the cessation of payment to land- where the public is using recognised walkways, owners under the REPS. charging for the use of recognised walkways In February 2004, I established a countryside should not be on the table given the terms of council, Comhairle na Tuaithe, to address issues Comhairle na Tuaithe to encourage greater use relating to waymarked ways and access. This of such facilities for health and recreational pur- decision followed consideration by the rural agri- poses and for broadening the tourism potential of tourism advisory group of a report presented by such activity, particularly in many isolated areas. the consultation group on access to waymarked ´ ´ ways. The establishment of a countryside council Eamon O Cuı´v: I thank the Deputy for tabling was the key recommendation of the report. this question. I rarely bother to correct inaccurac- Comhairle na Tuaithe has the following aims: ies in newspapers. I do so occasionally but most to ensure that all those with an interest and con- of the time I let them pass, otherwise I would cern in the sustainable development and proper spend most of my life doing nothing other than management of the recreational amenities of the writing to newspapers. In this case, I wrote to the countryside are fully consulted on their future editor of The Connacht Tribune, although I did management; to develop and update, as neces- not write when the initial report was published sary, a national countryside recreation strategy; because I thought there was no point. The to ensure that all means necessary are used to Deputy knows about quotes and misquotes. resolve conflicts that arise in relation to access However, when Keep Ireland Open wrote to The issues and responsible enjoyment of the country- Connacht Tribune on 4 March, I wrote this letter side; to raise awareness of the benefits to and to the editor: responsibilities of recreational use of the country- Dear Editor side and to carry out research and training on related issues; to ensure that adequate funding is I refer to the letter written by the above to made available to allow the organisation to your newspaper on the above date, in which he achieve these aims; and to examine the benefits makes remarks on comments attributed to me and management of increased leisure use. at a meeting of a Fianna Fa´il Cumman in 1079 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1080

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] Is e´ cuspo´ ir mo Roinne sa Ghaeltacht na´ u´ sa´id Recess (Connacht Notes, The Connacht Trib- na Gaeilge a la´idriu´ agus a bhuanu´ . I measc na une, 11 February). mbeartas faoi leith a to´ gadh le de´anaı´ chun na I would like to clarify that the remarks, as crı´che sin, a´irı´m an comh-mhaoiniu´ ar bhonn attributed to me, were not in my view a clear 50:50 gur fiu´ \87,000 ata´ ceadaithe agam o´ thu´ s and fair representation of what I said at that na bliana d’Fheidhmeannas na Seirbhı´se Sla´inte meeting. As the reporter in question did not le cumasu´ do´ triu´ r teiripeoirı´ urlabhra agus contact me to verify the accuracy of the teanga le Gaeilge a fhostu´ chun cur leis na remarks, and as the reporter was not, also, seirbhı´sı´ a bhı´onn ar fa´il sa re´imse sin sna ceantair present at the meeting, I take it that the report Ghaeltachta; an ciste gur fiu´ \1.56 milliu´ in thar trı´ was written on the basis of second hand bliana a d’fho´ gair me´ anuraidh chun tionscnamh reporting of the discussion at what was a pleana´la teanga a chur chun cinn sa Ghaeltacht private meeting. ar bhonn trialach; o´ shin i leith ta´ cu´ ig ghru´ pa roghnaithe agus cu´ namh airgid gur fiu´ suas go As I said at the end of my letter, my views on \110,000 in aghaidh na bliana ar fa´il le cuidiu´ walkways issues are well known and have been do´ ibh tabhairt faoi phlean teanga cuimsitheach articulated time and again in public fora, partic- agus infheidhmithe a re´iteach agus a chur i ularly at the conference in Portlaoise. bhfeidhm; an tacaı´ocht bhreise ata´ curtha ar fa´il ´ Irish Language. d’Ollscoil na hEireann Gaillimh chun oideachas trı´u´ leibhe´al trı´ mhea´n na Gaeilge a fhorbairt 6. D’fhiafraigh Mr. Sargent den Aire Gno´ thaı´ tuilleadh sa Ghaeltacht; an gre´asa´n tacaı´ochta ata´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta ce´ard iad bunaithe ag Acadamh na hOllscolaı´ochta tuairimı´ an Aire i dtaobh an athbhreithnithe ar Gaeilge, ata´ maoinithe ag mo Roinnse, faoina na Gaeltachtaı´, nach n-aontaı´onn an tAire liom bhfuil comhairle agus tacaı´ocht phraiticiu´ il a´ cur gur cheart nı´os mo tacaı´ochta a thabhairt do na ar fa´il do na gru´ paı´ a fuair aitheantas faoin Gaeltachtaı´ go le´ir chun iad a la´idriu´ agus nach tionscnamh pleana´la teanga; an feachtas ceart bru´ a chur orthu spriocanna e´agsu´ la a feasachta teanga a sheol me´ ar 13 Mea´nFo´ mhair bhaint amach faoi bhru´ ama. [11427/05] 2004 faoin teideal “A´ r dTeanga Na´du´ rtha Fe´in” 44. D’fhiafraigh Ms Burton den Aire Gno´ thaı´ d’fhonn na bunta´istı´ a bhaineann le hu´ sa´id na Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta o´ s rud e´ go Gaeilge mar phrı´omh-theanga teaghlaigh a chur bhfuil 41% de vo´ ta´laithe Ghaeltacht na ina luı´ ar thuismitheoirı´ na Gaeltachta; Gaillimhe do thoghcha´nU´ dara´s na Gaeltachta i athbhreithnuithe ar sce´im na gcu´ nto´ irı´ teanga, gceantair a bhfuil an Be´arla mar phrı´omhtheanga sce´im labhairt na Gaeilge agus sce´im na gcampaı´ iontu, ce´n plean pra´inneach ata´ aige fe´achaint ar samhraidh, le sce´imeanna leasuithe curtha no´ a´ theorainneacha Ghaeltacht na Gaillimhe; agus an gcur i bhfeidhm; an cu´ namh a ceadaı´odh nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina leith. [11385/05] d’Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne d’fhonn sce´im chuairteoirı´ baile a thionscnamh ar bhonn E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: To´ gfaidh me´ Ceisteanna trialach; an bhe´im bhreise ata´ a´ cur ag U´ dara´sna Uimh. 6 and 44 le che´ile. Gaeltachta, ar threoir shonrach uaim, ar Mar is eol do na Teachtaı´, cuireadh tu´ simı´ naı´scolaı´ocht, ar sheirbhı´sı´ don o´ ige, ar Aibrea´in 2004 le staide´ar teangeolaı´och dı´rithe ar gnı´omhaı´ochtaı´ na gcomharchumann agus ar u´ sa´id na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht mar bhunu´ s chun: sheirbhı´sı´ tacaı´ochta eile don Ghaeilge sa forbairt theangeolaı´och na Gaeltachta mar Ghaeltacht; agus an t-athstruchtu´ ru´ ata´ curtha i cheantar labhartha Gaeilge a threisiu´ ; agus bhfeidhm ag U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta ar an earna´il athbhreithniu´ a dhe´anamh ar na limiste´ir oifigiu´ la re´amhscolaı´ochta sa Ghaeltacht, chomh maith le Gaeltachta. Beidh na roghanna e´agsu´ la tabhairt faoi struchtu´ r nua chun freastal nı´os fearr tı´reolaı´ochta agus de´imeagrafaı´ocha a mheastar a a dhe´anamh ar an o´ ige sa Ghaeltacht. bheith oiriu´ nach mar bhunu´ s chun na limiste´ir Ta´ me´ sa´sta go bhfuil dul chun cinn suntasach oifigiu´ la Ghaeltachta a shainiu´ a´ scru´ du´ mar de´anta agus a´ dhe´anamh chun an tacaı´ocht chuı´ a chuid den staide´ar sin. chur ar fa´il ar mhaithe leis an nGaeltacht a la´idriu´ Meastar go dto´ gfaidh an staide´ar, ata´ a´ tuilleadh laistigh de na hacmhainnı´ airgid ata´ ar dhe´anamh thar cheann na Roinne ag Acadamh fa´il dom mar Aire. na hOllscolaı´ochta Gaeilge, Ollscoil na hE´ ireann, Gaillimh, i gcomhar leis an Institiu´ id Na´isiu´ nta Mr. Sargent: Gabhaim buı´ochas leis an Aire as um Anailı´sRe´igiu´ nach agus Spa´su´ il, Ollscoil na an bhfreagra. Aontaı´m leis an chuspo´ ir an hE´ ireann, Ma´ Nuad, dha´ bhliain go leith le cur i Ghaeilge a la´idriu´ .Ta´ codarsnacht ann, a´fach, idir gcrı´ch. Ta´ su´ il agam, mar sin, go mbeidh torthaı´ an tacaı´ocht a thabhairt do na Gaeltachtaı´ le crı´ochnu´ la ar fa´il thart ar Mhea´nFo´ mhair 2006. Gaeilge a neartu´ agus an bru´ a chuirtear orthu le Nı´ ghlacfar le aon chinneadh maidir le hathruithe sprioc da´taı´. An n-aontaı´onn an tAire go bhfuil ar na limiste´ir Ghaeltachta go dtı´ go mbeidh an e´ileamh ann ceol a fhoghlaim mar ta´ sport ag staide´ar crı´ochnaithe agus an deis a bheith ag mo baint leis agus tacaı´ochta taobh thiar de chomh Roinn torthaı´ an staide´ir a scru´ du´ go cu´ ramach. maith? Is fe´idir ceacht a fhoghlaim ansin le Chuirfı´ aon mholtaı´ i nda´il le hathru´ ar na spreagadh a thabhairt do dhaoine ranganna limiste´ir Ghaeltachta faoi bhra´id an Rialtais in Gaeilge a eagru´ , go speisialta do dhaoine fa´sta, am tra´th. agus an t-eolas sin a scaipeadh agus seans a 1081 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1082 thabhairt do dhaoine teacht ar an Ghaeilge. Ca´ u´ sa´id ar bith ann bheith ag to´ ga´il foirgneamh dte´ann daoine i gceantar an Aire le rang do folamh agus a´ bhfa´ga´il folamh nuair ata´ rudaı´ eile dhaoine fa´sta a fha´il. Ta´ muintearas ann, ta´ cu´ pla gur fe´idir a dhe´anamh inniu go mbeidh u´ sa´id a´iteanna ar imeall na Gaeltachta nach mbı´onn la´ithreach astu ar mhaithe le pobal na Gaeltachta seans ag daoine Gaeilge a fhoghlaim. Ba cheart agus pobal na Gaeilge. du´ inn rud e´igin a dhe´anamh faoi sin. An aontaı´onn an tAire go bhfuil se´ ta´bhachtach, o´ Mr. O’Shea: An aontaı´onn an tAire liom gur thaobh an u´ dara´is ag gearradh siar ar an tha´inig 41% de vo´ taı´ Gaeltacht na Gaillimhe sa mbuise´ad, fe´achaint air sin arı´s, o´ thaobh toghcha´n chuig U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta o´ dhaoine pa´irceanna gno´ agus seans a thabhairt do dhaoine nach labhraı´onn ach Be´arla? fre´amhacha a chur fu´ thu sa Ghaeltacht in ionad a bheith ag obair na mı´lte o´ na n-a´it cho´ naı´. E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Is aisteach an rud a tharlaı´onn Ta´ an-chompara´id idir cheol agus foghlaim na nuair a dhı´rı´tear ar cheist lae amha´in. Nı´ Gaeilge. fheileann toradh an toghcha´in le daoine a´irithe. Nı´or fheil se´ leo gur e´irigh le Fianna Fa´il ceithre An Ceann Comhairle: Ceist le do thoil. shuı´ocha´n a bhaint amach i nGaillimh Thiar. Breathno´ imid ar na fı´ricı´. Cuid de na daoine ata´ Mr. Sargent: An aontaı´onn an tAire go bhfuil anois ag geara´n, bhı´ siad ar bhord na n-u´ dara´is se´ ta´bhachtach ranganna Gaeilge do dhaoine nuair a chuir mise ceist orthu roimh athru´ an fa´sta a shocru´ ? Achta 1999 mar u´ dara´s, ar cheart don u´ dara´sa bheith ag feidhmiu´ i gcathair na Gaillimhe no´ an E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Ta´ se´ ta´bhachtach. Bı´onn siad raibh se´ ag feidhmiu´ ann agus, ma´ bhı´,ce´nfa´th ar fa´il agus bı´onn an t-u´ dara´s agus Conradh na nach raibh an t-easta´t tionsclaı´ochta sa bpa´irc Gaeilge ag ple´ le ranganna Gaeilge i gcathair na mho´ r i nGaillimh faoina chu´ ram seachas an IDA. Gaillimhe agus clu´ daı´onn sin na ceantracha ata´ ar Tha´inig na daoine seo ar ais ag iarraidh go imeall na Gaeltachta. Bı´onn Cola´iste na bhfa´gfainn rudaı´ mar ata´ siad. hOllscoile i nGaillimh ag oibriu´ ar fud na Ma´ the´im isteach go Cnoc na Cathrach Gaeltachta. Bı´onn ranganna Gaeilge i mo ama´rach, agus ma´ the´imse aru´ ama´rach go Be´al dhu´ iche fe´in. an Mhuirthead, feicfidh me´ i bhfad nı´os mo´ oibre Maidir le hairgead don u´ dara´s, breathnaı´mar ar bun i gCnoc na Cathrach leis an Ghaeilge a an airgead a chuirtear ar fa´il dom le haghaidh cur chur chun cinn o´ thaobh Gaelscolaı´ochta agus chun cinn na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachta mar iarrachtaı´ an phobail na´ mar a fheicfidh me´ I aonad amha´in agus u´ sa´idim an t-airgead sin, caite mbaile Bhe´al an Mhuirthead. Nı´le´inne a ra´ nach frı´d an Roinn no´ frı´danu´ dara´s, ar an mbealach gceart d’e´inne dul isteach don bhaile le haghaidh is fearr a chreidim go nde´anfaidh se´ leas na an togha´in seo. Gaeilge agus leas phobal na Gaeltachta. Chuir me´ Ma´ ta´ an t-athru´ le de´anamh, nı´ fe´idir liom an-speis gur vo´ ta´il breis is 60% de mhuintir gnı´omhu´ ar cheist an lae inne´.Ta´ plean leagtha Chorca Dhuibhne, muintir Mhaigh Eo, muintir amach agam, an che´ad Aire Gaeltachta o´ 1956, le Chiarraı´, muintir Thı´r Chonaill, muintir na hathbhreithniu´ chuimsitheach, faira´ilte, Gaillimh. Mar a´irı´mid an pobal Gaeltachta ag oibiachtu´ il a dhe´anamh ar na teorannacha vo´ ta´il sa toghcha´n, fiu´ ag to´ ga´il na toghcha´n Gaeltachta. Ta´ se´ leagtha amach go soile´ir cad e´ beaga san a´ireamh, ba le´ir go bhfuil pobal na mar a dhe´anfar e´ agus nı´ amha´in sin ach airgead Gaeltachta an-sa´sta leis an gcur chuige mar vo´ ta´il nach beag curtha agam lena dhe´anamh cinnte go siad go fı´orla´idir ar a shon. Ta´ rudaı´ breise i gceist nde´anfar e´. Nuair a thiocfaimid ag deireadh an sa Ghaeltacht seachas na rudaı´ a dhe´anann staide´ar sin, beidh cinneadh le de´anamh. U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. Ceann de na sce´imeanna Ba mhaith liom a ra´ fosta na´r ndearnadh is mo´ a dhe´anann leas na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht bagairt ar e´inne. Feicim sna nuachta´in daoine a na sce´im na bhfoghlaimeoirı´ Gaeilge, no´ sce´im na ra´ gur bhagair mise mura chaithfidı´svo´ ta´il sa mban tı´, sce´im na gcola´iste Gaeilge. D’ardaigh toghcha´n, go gcaithfı´ amach as an Ghaeltacht iad. me´ an t-airgead leo agus nuair a bhı´ me´ ag Nı´l aon bhunu´ s leis sin. Tharla gur chuir iriseoir de´anamh cinnidh idir tuilleadh foirgnimh a ceist orm faoin staide´ar teangeolaı´ochta agus tho´ ga´il agus an tionscal is mo´ a chuireann airgead mhı´nigh me´ don iriseoir go dto´ gfaidh go leor leor i bpo´ ca Gaeilgeoirı´ na Gaeltachta, sce´im na rudaı´ san a´ireamh sa staide´ar, mar shampla, an bhfoghlaimeoirı´ Gaeilge, chuir me´ an t-airgead i bhfuil an bunscoil ag mu´ ineadh trı´ Ghaeilge, an dtreo sce´im na bhfoghlaimeoirı´ Gaeilge. bhfuil an t-aifreann trı´ Ghaeilge agus mar sin. Du´ irt an t-u´ dara´sfe´in go bhfuil laigı´ sa Cuireadh ceist orm an dto´ gfaı´ san a´ireamh mar bhunstruchtu´ r. Tuarasca´il bhliantu´ il i ndiaidh chomhartha spe´ise, i measc rudaı´ eile, lı´on na tuarasca´la bliantu´ la chuir me´ airgead sa rud sin. ndaoine a vo´ ta´il i dtoghcha´nanu´ dara´is. Du´ irt me´ Dhı´righ se ar cheist na naı´scolaı´ochta agus chuir go dto´ gfaı´ san a´ireamh sa me´id mar go me´ airgead ansin. Du´ irt se´ go raibh fadhb o´ dtaispea´nfadh se´ du´ inn tuiscint fiu´ an raibh siad thaobh cu´ rsaı´ o´ ige agus chuir me´ airgead ar fa´il sa nGaeltacht, mar bhı´ go leor daoine ag ra´ nach do sin. Ma´ tho´ gtar an t-iomla´n, ta´ pobal na raibh a fhios fiu´ ag cuid mhaith de na daoine ina Gaeltachta sa´sta agus go bhfuil an cur chuige ag gco´ naı´ sa Ghaeltacht i gcathair na Gaillimhe sa me´adu´ an airgid ata´ ar fa´il do no rudaı´ seo ar fad Ghaeltacht. Du´ irt me´ cinnte go dto´ gfainn san a theastaı´onn uathu go nde´anfar agus nach bhfuil a´ireamh sin i measc na rudaı´ eile ar fad. An che´ad 1083 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1084

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] tacht areas; and if he will make a statement on rud eile, rinneadh dearmad ar an gcomhra´ ar fad the matter. [11446/05] agus na rudaı´ eile a luaigh me´ agus sı´ an phrı´omh- ´ ´ thuairisc a tha´inig amach na´ lı´ne amha´in gur Eamon O Cuı´v: I will explain again to the bhagair an tAire mura vo´ ta´lfadh daoine, chaithfı´ House that the legal position since 1970 has been amach iad. Nı´ mise a bhagair e´. that road directional signs in the Gaeltacht are in Irish only. The Placenames Order that I made in respect of Gaeltacht placenames in December Mr. McGinley: An fe´idir an tAire a ra´ cathain last and which came into effect on 28 March 2005 a bheidh an staide´ar seo crı´ochnaithe agus na does not alter that position. Therefore, I am not cinnidh a dhe´anfaidh. Tagraı´onn an cheist do introducing Irish-only road signs in Gaeltacht tacaı´ocht a thabhairt do na Gaeltachtaı´ maidir le areas. la´idriu´ na teanga. An aontaı´onn an tAire liom gur an tacaı´ocht is la´idre a thig leis a thabhairt do na I understand that some costs will arise for local Gaeltachtaı´ agus don teanga na´ muintir na authorities in altering a relatively small number Gaeltachta a choinnea´il ansin agus fostaı´ocht a of existing signs located outside the Gaeltacht. chur ar fa´il do´ ibh ina gceantar fe´in? An bhfuil an The provision of road traffic signs on non- tAire do´ chasach go mbeidh se´ ar chumas U´ dara´is national roads and the funding of such signs is a na Gaeltachta sin a dhe´anamh leis na hacmhainnı´ matter for individual local authorities from within ata´ curtha ar fa´il do´ i mbliana agus an bhliain existing allocations and no expenditure over and seo chugainn? above those existing allocations is involved. Ag an phointe seo, tre´aslaı´m leis an phrı´omh- My Department consulted the public bodies fheidhmeannach u´ r ata´ ag dul I mbun a dhualgais primarily affected by this order, Ordnance Survey inniu, Pa´draig O´ hAola´in. Ireland and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I am advised that no significant additional costs arise for Ord- E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Tacaı´m leis an rud ata´ ra´ite nance Survey Ireland. faoin phrı´omh-fheidhmeannach nua agus tugaim aitheantas fosta don obair a rinne Ruan O´ Bric mar phrı´omh-fheidhmeannach thar blianta fada. Mr. Sargent: Ta´ an cheist seo dı´rithe ar chostas Ta´ chuile duine sa Teach ar aon intinn go bhfuil na bhfo´ graı´ nua agus du´ irt an tAire nach bhfuil muid buı´och de Ruan agus tre´aslaı´mid le Pa´draig mo´ ra´n acu le crochadh. Feicfimid cad a de´arfaidh O´ hAola´in. na comhairlı´ condae faoi sin. Scaitı´ de´anta simpliu´ ar rudaı´. An dtarlo´ dh An aontaı´onn an tAire go bhfuil se´ maidin ama´rach i nGaeltacht Chonamara go ta´bhachtach go dtuigfidh cuairteoirı´ an bun- dtabharfaı´ isteach 3,000 i monarchan ar scil ı´seal, logainm ata´ i gceist? An nde´anfaidh se´ socru´ idir nı´ bhfaigheadh an lı´on daoine ata´ de dhı´th as a Roinn agus na daoine a chuireann Chonamara mar ta´ siad ag dul go Gaillimh agus le´arsca´ileanna ar fa´il? Sna siopaı´,ma´ ta´ cuairteoir ag fa´il oibre ann mar go bhfuil scileanna arda acu. ar a lorg, ba cheart go mbeadh le´arsca´il den Nı´ fheilfeadh an cinea´l sin job iad. cheantar ar fa´il leis na logainmneacha oifigiu´ la uirthi. Sin ceist tha´bhachtach sa tı´r ar fad agus sa Tha´inig toscaireacht chugam as baile beag i Ghaeltacht o´ thaobh turaso´ ireachta de. gConamara le caint faoi fhostaı´ocht. Du´ irt me´ go bhfuil an fhadhb beaga´inı´nnı´os casta mar thug An bhfuil socru´ de´anta aige leis na me´ faoi deara fa´na mbaile go bhfuil fı´orbheaga´n heagraı´ochtaı´ turaso´ ireachta faoi margaı´ocht agus de na mu´ inteoirı´ ata´ acu ina Ghaeilgeoir. Du´ irt logainmneacha a u´ sa´id mar ata´ siad sa leagan me´ nach trua e´ nuair ata´ na jobanna ann ach nach oifigiu´ il tar e´is do´ an riail seo a leagadh? Ta´ se´ bhfuil siad le lı´onadh ag daoine a´itiu´ la le Gaeilge. ta´bhachtach go dtuigeann turaso´ irı´ ca´ bhfuil siad Sı´os an bo´ thar, ta´ teach altranais ann gur chuir an ag dul. ´ ´ ´ ´ ´ ´ t-udaras airgead do ach nı raibh se in ann altraı ´ ´ le Gaeilge a fha´il sa bhfı´or-Ghaeltacht seo le Eamon O Cuı´v: Nı´l aon athracha le cur ar na hobair ann. Ta´ an cheist i bhfad nı´os casta agus comharthaı´ bo´ thair taobh istigh den Ghaeltacht. ta´ me´ ag obair leis an u´ dara´slede´anamh cinnte Ma´ ta´ cuid de na logainmneacha i mBe´arla, nı´l go bhfuil jobanna ann agus go bhfuil na daoine siad ag cloı´ leis an riail a bhı´ ann o´ 1970. Bhı´ an- oilte leo. Ta´ sin nı´os casta na´ an seanrud a bhı´odh fhadhb agam sin a mhı´niu´ sna mea´in Be´arla. ann sna 1950s nuair a bhı´ chuile job mar an Bhı´ laige ag baint leis an rud a rinneadh i 1970. gce´anna. Caithfimid sin a phle´. Athraı´odh na comharthaı´ bo´ thair ach nı´or Ba bhrea´ liomsa go bhfe´adfaimis dul i gcoiste hathraı´odh na le´arsca´il agus b’shin an fhadhb. Is a bhaineann le mo Roinn agus suigh sı´os agus ple´ cuma ce´n teanga ina bhfuil comhartha bo´ thair a a dhe´anamh ar an gceist seo, seachas ag to´ ga´il fhad is go re´itı´onn an le´arsca´il leis. Ma´ bhreathnaı´onn duine go cu´ ramach ar an le´arsca´il lı´nte simplı´ ar an cheist mar nı´lse´ chomh simplı´ a cheannaı´tear i ngara´iste, feicfidh se´ co´ ipcheart sin. Rialtais na hE´ ireann uirthi. Se´ an Ordnance Survey a dhe´anann an bunleagan. Sin an a´it ata´ Road Signs. an bua sa socru´ nua mar beidh siad ina 7. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Com- mbunle´arsca´ileanna. Ar ndo´ igh ta´ an Ghaeilge munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the financial ann anois mar sin an t-ainm oifigiu´ il. Shı´l muid cost of introducing Irish-only road signs in Gael- go mbeadh se´ mı´re´alaı´och sa ghearrthe´arma da´ 1085 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1086 n-imeodh an leagan Be´arla o´ na le´arsca´ileanna mı´cheart. Tuigimid e´ sin, ach sin iad na cinn ata´ bo´ thair thar oı´che. Da´ bhrı´ sin, is e´ an rud ata´ i ar fa´il faoi la´thair. Is ga´ rud e´igin idirmhea´nach a gceist na´ go mbeadh leaganacha da´theangacha ar dhe´anamh chun an sce´al a chur ina cheart. na le´arsca´ileanna. Mar a tharlaı´onn, ta´ le´arsca´il i mo dhialann, agus thosnaigh me´ a bhreathnu´ E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Da´ mba rud e´ gur athraigh me´ uirthi la´ amha´in. Nı´ thuigim go baileach ce´ard a na comharthaı´ sa Ghaeltacht le go mbeidı´si rinne siad, ach feicim, mar shampla, “An Spide´al” mBe´arla ar fad — no´ i mBe´arla agus i nGaeilge agus “Spiddal”. Nı´l a fhios agam an bhfuil mise — sa Ghaeltacht, bheadh se´ ciallmhar beaga´inin ag cur olc ar na Teachtaı´, ach nı´or cho´ ir go poiblı´ochta a dhe´anamh faoi a´ ra´ go mbeadh an nglactar leis an leagan Be´arla. Ta´ an rud seo ag t-athru´ seo ag teacht, ach nı´ sin an rud ata´ a´ ra´ teacht, a´fach, agus ar ghna´thle´arsca´il bo´ thair, nı´l agam. Ta´ siad i nGaeilge o´ 1970. Ta´ aon cheann fadhb ar bith leis. Is e´ard a bheadh me´ ag su´ il leis nach bhfuil mar sin o´ shin mı´dhleathach. Sin an ar na le´arsca´ileanna bo´ thair a cheanno´ far i siopaı´ che´ad rud a gcaithfidh daoine a thuiscint. Sin mar go gairid na´ go dtabharfar an da´ leagan ar aon a´it ata´ siad. Da´ dtiocfadh duine go Conamara deich sa Ghaeltacht — “An Spide´al”, “Spiddal” — agus mbliana o´ shin, sin mar a bhı´ siad. nı´ bhı´onn an oiread sin ainmneacha ar an An rud ata´ de´anta againn na´ tosnu´ go dı´reach ngna´thle´arsca´il bo´ thair. Beidh na comharthaı´ i leis na le´arsca´ileanna. Go praiticiu´ il, i dtaobh na nGaeilge amha´in, ach ma´ deir duine “Spiddal”, gcomharthaı´ bo´ thair, seachas cuid ata´ feicfidh an tioma´naı´ “An Spide´al” faoi, feicfidh mı´dhleathach, nach bhfuil am ar bith agam do´ ibh, se´ an chomhartha don Spide´al, agus beidh se´ in nı´l aon athru´ ann. Maidir leis na mapaı´,anrud ann a bhealach a dhe´anamh sa Ghaeltacht. ata´ i gceist againn a dhe´anamh, mar a mhı´nigh me´,na´ go mbeidı´sda´theangach o´ thaobh Mr. McGinley: Is pointe iontach ta´bhachtach e´ leaganacha sna Gaeltachtaı´ de, mar a bheidı´sigo seo ata´ a´ phle´ againn i la´thair na huaire. Ta´ se´ leor tı´ortha eile. Is e´ an chaoi ata´ againn e´ sin a ta´bhachtach nach nde´anfaidh muid na botu´ in a dhe´anamh go prı´omha´ na´ go nde´antar na mapaı´ rinneadh san am a chuaigh thart arı´st. Ta´ se´ seo le cead o´ n Ordnance Survey, agus ta´ an- fı´ortha´bhachtach ar fad go mbeadh aontas no´ an chomhoibriu´ idir muid agus an Suirbhe´ Ordana´is. fhoirm che´anna ar na comharthaı´ bo´ thair is ata´ Mar is eol don Teachta, is brainse den Rialtas e´. ar na le´arsca´ileanna agus go dtuigfidh an tAire In imeacht ama, glacaimid ar fad leis go agus an chuid eile daoine e´ seo. Ta´ ceist agam mbeidh “An Ceathru´ Rua” ar an gCeathru´ Rua, maidir leis na foilsitheoirı´ agus na heagraı´ochtaı´ agus gurb e´ sin deireadh an sce´il. Beidh tre´imhse uilig a chuireann an fhreagracht, an dualgas no´ an idirmhea´nach i gceist, a´fach. Chuaigh an AA agus cu´ ram orthu fe´in le´arsca´il a chur ar fa´il. An bhfuil comhlachtaı´ prı´obha´ideacha eile i dteagmha´il teagmha´il de´anta leo sin le go gcloı´fidı´s leis an linn, agus ta´ an rud ple´ite leo. Mar a deirim, is leagan oifigiu´ il mar ata´ anois de re´ir reachtaı´ocht le´ir o´ na mapaı´ ata´ a´ gcur ar fa´il, mar shampla, an Tı´ seo agus de re´ir mar a chuireann an Oifig an mapa sa dialann agam — is e´ mapa Ordana´is ar fa´il e´?Isce´im tha´bhachtach e´ sin le caighdea´nach ata´ sa dhialann — go bhfuil, cheana bheith cinnte nach mbeidh daoine ag cur amach fe´in, lucht de´anta na mapaı´ ar fud na tı´re ag dul sa le´arsca´ileanna ata´ bunaithe ar rudaı´ a foilsı´odh treo seo. Mar a deirim, le tacaı´ocht an Ordnance 20, 30 no´ 40 bliain o´ shin. Beidh muid ag toiseacht Survey, ta´ me´ ag de´anamh cinnte go dtiocfar go ar bhonn u´ rnua, agus beidh na le´arsca´ileanna hiomla´n i dtreo an da´theangachais ar na mapaı´. agus an fhoclaı´ocht orthu mar an gce´anna leis an Beidh “Carraroe” agus “An Ceathru´ Rua”, fhoclaı´ocht ar na comharthaı´ bo´ thair. Nı´ “Spiddal” agus “An Spide´al”, “Gweedore” agus chothaı´onn se´ aon deacracht du´ inn ar fud na mo´ r- “Gaoth Dobhair” ann. roinne no´ sa Bhreatain Bhig, agus nı´or cho´ ir go Maidir leis an cheist faoin phoiblı´ocht, is do´ igh mbeadh se´ ag cothu´ deacrachtaı´ du´ inn sa tı´r seo. liom go bhfuil me´ beaga´inı´ncu´ ramach leis an airgead. Nı´ fheicim mo´ rfhadhb i gcloiginn na Mr. Sargent: Tuigim go maith go bhfuil an ndaoine. socru´ sin ann, agus tuigimid uilig sa Teach seo e´, ach ta´ ceist agam mar gheall ar an tre´imhse Mr. Sargent: Cad e´ faoin Teachta ghearrthe´armach. Nuair a bhı´, mar shampla, an t- O’Donoghue? athru´ ann o´ n bpunt go dtı´ an euro, bhı´ a´ireamha´in, pinn luaidhe, fo´ graı´, bileoga agus E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Ta´ a fhios ag an Teachta neart eolais ar an teilifis agus an raidio´ mar gheall O’Donoghue faoi seo. Nı´ raibh aon rud le air. Nı´lme´ ag lorg an me´id sin trioblo´ ide a labhairt leis faoi. tharraingt ar an Aire. D’ainneoin sin, caithfidh me´ an cheist a chur an bhfuil teagmha´il de´anta ag Mr. Sargent: Ce´nfa´th? an Aire leis an Teachta O’Donoghue o´ thaobh na turaso´ ireachta de. An bhfuil aon socru´ ann — ar E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Ta´ na comharthaı´ i nGaeilge an laghad sna siopaı´ nuachta´n agus sna gara´istı´ — le 35 bliain, agus ta´ na turaso´ irı´ ag teacht. An le´arsca´ileanna bunu´ sacha, beaga faoin gceantar a che´ad uair da´ mbeidh na mapaı´ ar fa´il i nGaeilge, chur ar fa´il a´ ra´ gurb iad seo na comharthaı´ tuigfidh siad. Is e´ an rud a chuireann an argo´ int bo´ thair oifigiu´ la a fheicfidh na cuairteoirı´ agus a chloisim sna mea´in i gcuimhne dom na´ rud a gurb e´ seo an bealach ar cheart do´ ibh dul? I tharla dom nuair a bhı´ me´ o´ g. Tharlo´ dh se´ i nda´irı´re, ta´ na le´arsca´ileanna ata´ ar fa´il sna siopaı´ gco´ naı´ gur cuireadh an cheist orm “Ce´n t-ainm 1087 Priority 14 April 2005. Questions 1088

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] be taken. The establishment of a Cabinet sub- ata´ ort?”. “E´ amon O´ Cuı´v”,adu´ irt me´. “What is committee would ensure a focus on what needs that in English?”. Go na´du´ rtha, ba e´ an freagra a to be done in the various Departments and else- bhı´ agam air sin na´ “And what is Putin, where. Until the issue is given a focus such as this, Gorbachev and God knows what i mBe´arla little or no progress will be made. The danger is freisin?” Nı´ chuirfı´ an cheist sin ar Ru´ iseach, that there will be plenty of publicity and positive Francach no´ e´inne eile, ach leis an nGaeilge, appraisals but the report will be forgotten caitear i gco´ naı´ ra´, “What is that in English?”. Is quickly. fadhb sa gcloigeann e´ seachas fadhb phraiticiu´ il. E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: We seem to have come full cir- Irish Language. cle. I have been saying all along that I am not one for setting up committees and issuing reports. I 8. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Com- intend to articulate Government policy and not munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he is con- the views of a Foram na Gaeilge report, although sidering seeking Cabinet approval for the estab- I want that organisation to give advice. Any lishment of a Cabinet sub-committee to examine policy statement positioning the role of the Irish the issues raised in the first annual report of the language in the State will be a statement of Coimisine´ar Teanga; and if he will make a state- Government policy, not a statement by Foram na ment on the matter. [11407/05] Gaeilge. I want it to do continuous work. I E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: In his inaugural report, the remember critics of Foram na Gaeilge question- Coimisine´ir Teanga called, as I have done, for a ing when it would finish its work and issue a national debate on the teaching of the Irish langu- report. I stated this was not its purpose. As we age in schools. He also commented on the discussed earlier today, we want it to push the infrequency with which the language is used in agenda forward incrementally. I can recall a large debates in the Oireachtas. range of issues regarding which we have done just The main part of the report was concerned with that during my tenure of office. outlining how the coimisine´ir has functioned and Let me address the Deputy’s other question. met the responsibilities of his office since his About four or five weeks ago, I spoke in Cork establishment. I wholeheartedly welcome the about teaching the Irish language. Anybody who report and look forward to seeing the fruits over was present on the night will remember that I the coming years both of my Department’s work made two points. Just because one states a fact in negotiating schemes with public bodies under does not mean one is blaming somebody. I did the Act and the coimisine´ir’s work in monitoring not state what I stated to blame anybody. and providing advice in regard to those schemes. However, if a fact is a fact, let us deal with it. Let There is a significant amount of work to be us move away from the codology whereby it is undertaken across a range of issues in regard to believed that if one states a fact, one is in some securing and advancing the situation of the Irish way accusing or blaming somebody personally. language and the Coimisine´ir Teanga has made a I will reiterate the fact I stated at the meeting welcome contribution to public debate on the in Cork. There is a major problem associated with issues. the teaching of Irish associated with many The establishment of a Cabinet sub-committee teachers’ lack of knowledge of the language. If would serve no useful purpose at this stage. The anybody doubts me in that regard, he should go Deputy is aware that I have established Fo´ ram na to the cola´istı´ oiliu´ na, meet the final year students Gaeilge to advise me on, inter alia, how best to and have with them the debates we have had this promote the Irish language in the 21st century. afternoon in Irish. He will find out that what I am This will include advising me as to the desirability saying is a matter of fact. It would be crazy of me of a 20-year strategic plan with realistic goals for to blame the students for not doing something if the Irish language in the State. There is a separate the system has not taught them that thing. I am question to me about the fo´ ram on today’s not into that business. On the other hand, it Order Paper. would be equally crazy for me not to recognise the aforementioned fact and request that we Mr. O’Shea: The publication of the first annual address the problem. report of the Coimisine´ir Teanga has created a In debates on the Irish language, we always stir. I criticised the Minister and the com- seem to believe that stating a fact involves missioner for the blame being apportioned to apportioning blame. In the debate on the Official teachers. We will be better served by focusing on Languages Act, I alluded to the fact that only 5% the main issue, an environment which is at best of adults speak Irish on a daily basis. Therefore, unsupportive of the Irish language. There is some I always said it was ludicrous to suggest that every truth in the contentions regarding the quality of civil servant should be able to deal with every teaching but it perverts the argument to focus on issue through Irish. I rubbished this at the time that aspect. on the basis that they do not have Irish. One of In his report, the commissioner emphasised the the great arguments in the debate centred on weakness of the Irish language throughout the this topic. public service. My concern is that everyone will I reiterate the well recognised and known fact laud the report as worthwhile but no action will that the majority of public servants do not feel 1089 Services for People 14 April 2005. with Disabilities 1090 comfortable doing their daily business through Adjournment Debate Matters. the medium of Irish. All the evidence from cen- An Ceann Comhairle: I wish to advise the suses etc. will substantiate this, as will the evi- House of the following matters in respect of dence we glean in respect of the day-to-day reali- which notice has been given under Standing ties we encounter in our work. Order 21 and the name of the Member in each case: (1) Deputy O’Dowd — to ask the Minister Mr. McGinley: I agree with the Minister and to debate the urgent need for the installation of other Deputies that we are greatly indebted to CCTV in the town of Drogheda, County Louth; the language commissioner for his reports and the (2) Deputy Healy — the need for the Minister to facts he has presented to us. These facts have reverse the ongoing cutbacks on FA´ S community been staring us in the face for a number of years. employment schemes and the three-year cap on The results in the education system are limited. these schemes; (3) Deputy Wall — to ask the Have there been any consultations between the Minister the reasons a person (details supplied), Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht a medical card holder, cannot obtain speech and Affairs and an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta language sessions; (4) Deputy Neville — the pro- regarding the content of the Irish syllabus in pri- vision of a new sewerage scheme for Shanag- mary schools? There should be more emphasis on olden, County Limerick; (5) Deputy Stanton — the spoken language rather than presenting to ask the Minister to discuss the issue of the need young children with reading, writing and gram- to deal with those who were the subject of vac- mar at such a tender age. This turns them off. cine trials in 1950s and 1960s; and (6) Deputy Our priority should be to emphasise the spoken Sargent — if the Government intends responding language. to criticisms raised by the UK environmental agency that Irish drift nets now represent the Mr. Sargent: O´ thaobh Gaeilge san Oireachtas, main form of exploitation of salmon on many an fe´idir leis an Aire a mholadh do na hu´ dara´is English and Welsh rivers. anseo go bhfuil an cluasa´n deas, beag, ne´ata ata´ The matters raised by Deputies Wall, Stanton, ag an gCeann Comhairle i bhfad nı´os a´isiu´ la agus Healy and O’Dowd have been selected for go mbeadh daoine sa´sta tuilleadh Gaeilge a u´ sa´id discussion. ma´ ta´ cluasa´in mar sin ar fa´il seachas an rud mo´ r millte seo ata´ an-sofheicthe agus a bheadh ar an Adjournment Debate. teilifı´s agus duine ag e´isteacht leis an aistriu´ cha´n? Bheadh rud chomh simplı´ sin ina chabhair ar an ———— cheist. Services for People with Disabilities. E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Glacaim gur chuala an Ceann Comhairle an cheist a chuir an Teachta orm Mr. Wall: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for ansin. Is ceist ı´ sin don CPP agus ta´ me´ cinnte go allowing this Adjournment debate and thank the dtuigeann an Ceann Comhairle, i nGaeilge no´ i Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, for attending. This matter arises from my frustration mBe´arla, an pointe sin. Aontaı´m leis an Teachta. over trying to resolve the problems of the unfor- Bheadh an rud eile ar no´ s mar a bheadh ar tunate person in question. He was involved in a la´ithreoir teilifı´se agus nı´ fheicfı´ e´.Lecu´ namh De´, separation and got his own local authority house chuala an Ceann Comhairle an bheirt againn agus in my home town of Athy. Unfortunately, he suf- dı´reoidh se´ ar an gceist sin. fered from a stroke and is therefore not able to Ag dul ar ais chuig fadhb na mu´ inteoirı´,ta´ relate to family members or friends who visit. bunu´ sle´i. Ag glacadh go bhfuil an ceart ag an One can imagine the frustration this causes him. Teachta agus go bhfuil fadhb ann go bhfuil go The man has his own home and looks after it. leor mu´ inteoirı´ nach bhfuil Gaeilge acu, b’fhe´idir He was really appreciative when the local auth- gurbh fhearr du´ inn teilifı´sı´ a cheannach, iad a ority provided the house. However, due to his chur sa rang agus uair a chloig de “Cu´ la Bu´ la” a health condition, he suffers from all the problems chur ar bun chuile la´. Thaitneodh sin leis na pa´istı´ that result from a lack of communication with the agus b’fheidir go bhfoghlaimeoidı´s i bhfad nı´os outside world. I have tried through every means mo´ Gaeilge o´ n teilifı´s ar a labhraı´tear Gaeilge available to me to obtain for him some type of mhaith na´ mar a bhfoghlaimeoidı´so´ mhu´ inteoir speech and language therapy, but without suc- nach bhfuil an teanga aige. Ma´ aithnı´tear an cess. As the Minister of State will note from the fhadhb go fuar-chu´ iseach, go minic ta´ re´iteach further information with which I supplied him, fı´or-fheicthe ar an bhfadhb ach daoine a bheith the Health Service Executive, south-eastern area oscailte go bealach eile breathnu´ ar an gceist. Sin does not provide community speech and language an rud a ba mhaith liom a thabhairt don therapy services for adults. The outpatient ser- dı´ospo´ ireacht seo. Ta´ an teicneolaı´ocht ann anois. vices which were available previously from Naas Nı´ ga´ go mbeidh an mu´ inteoir sa rang ag teagasc Hospital have ceased and only a minimal number na Gaeilge. of speech therapy sessions are available for inpatients. One could argue that the only course Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate. of action available to the man in question is to try 1091 Child 14 April 2005. Abuse 1092

[Mr. Wall.] that community speech and language therapy is to get readmitted to the hospital to obtain inpati- not provided for adults. ent services. Given that only a minimal number A medical card issued by a Health Service of sessions are available, it would not be of much Executive area enables the bearer to receive cer- benefit to him. tain health services free of charge. However, There is no funding available for the man in where community-type services such as speech question. He is a medical card holder and has therapy are concerned, there is no statutory obli- retained the card through representations. He gation that automatically entitles a person to such attended the National Rehabilitation Centre in services although some Health Service Executive Du´ n Laoghaire as part of his rehabilitation after areas provide a level of these services. Demand his stroke. He has met a stone wall because the for speech and language therapists was recog- Health Service Executive is not in a position to nised in the Bacon report in 2002 which recom- provide the communication link between him and mended that training places for speech and langu- the outside world, including his friends and age therapists increase from 25 places per year to family. I hope the Minister of State will try to do 105 places per year. something for this man. To address this shortfall in supply, three new It seems futile for a person to overcome so schools of speech and language therapy were much and be thwarted in this way. He holds a opened in 2003, in the National University of medical card. Does this reply from the Health Ireland in Galway and Cork and in the University Service Executive imply that no one in the execu- of Limerick. In addition, the number of training tive’s south-western area will provide speech and places in Trinity College Dublin were enhanced. language therapy for an adult? Will everyone The end of this academic year will see the first who suffers a stroke be in the position that he or graduates of these new courses, those students she must get private tuition, funded personally or who undertook an accelerated two year masters by family members, or some other mechanism, or programme in University of Limerick and in 2007 must these people suffer in a limbo of non-com- graduates from the traditional degree programme munication? One can see this man’s frustration. He cannot from the universities in Cork and Galway. speak on the phone although he can call for help To meet the demand for speech and language if he needs it. He is totally isolated. I hope the therapists we rely heavily on the return of Minister of State’s reply will offer him some sol- students who have studied abroad and on an EU ace and that the Health Service Executive, which and non-EU workforce. It is estimated that 20% receives so much funding from the Exchequer, of the speech and language therapy workforce will provide a service for him. This man contrib- comes from abroad. In 2002 an additional grade uted to the Exchequer, having worked all his life of clinical specialist was introduced to speech and until he fell ill. He paid tax and social insurance language therapy. This grade had many objectives contributions. I hope there will be some light at including to ensure best practice and research in the end of the tunnel for him and that he will be the profession. It is intended to review and able to communicate with the outside world. develop this extremely beneficial grade soon. The Irish Association of Speech and Language Thera- Minister of State at the Department of Health pists has embraced the Sustaining Progress and Children (Mr. B. Lenihan): I am pleased to agenda and produced a position paper for the take this opportunity to clarify the matter relating introduction of programme assistants to the pro- to the provision of speech and language therapy fession. This skill mix will ensure the best use of for the person on whose behalf Deputy Wall has scarce and valuable resources. The grade will be raised this matter. The Health Act 2004 provided established and a training programme for such for the Health Service Executive, which was programme assistants initiated soon. established on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the Despite the significant developments in speech executive has responsibility to manage and and language therapy to date, it is widely deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, accepted that there is further need to enhance the health and personal social services. numbers employed in the health and education This includes responsibility for speech and lan- sectors. Long waiting lists for services must guage therapy services. However, my Depart- become a feature of the past. The recently ment has inquired into this matter. The Health announced investment in the disability sector is a Service Executive, south-western area, confirms first step in advancing to a service where those in that this person was referred to it for speech and need of this essential service receive it. language therapy services following his discharge from a hospital in another area of the Health Ser- Child Abuse. vice Executive. The Deputy had been previously informed by the Health Service Executive that a Mr. Stanton: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for minimal number of speech therapy sessions are allowing me to raise this matter this evening and available at Naas Hospital which requires the the Minister of State for coming into the House provision of speech and language therapy services to reply. I am pleased the Minister of State, to adults to be limited to inpatients of that Deputy Brian Lenihan, is here because this is a hospital. The executive also informed the Deputy medico-legal issue. 1093 Child 14 April 2005. Abuse 1094

In the 1960s several children participated in a As a result of the extension of the commission’s trial of a vaccine without any apparent consent. functions, an additional commissioner was The previous Minister for Health and Children, assigned to the investigation committee and a div- Deputy Martin, instigated a ministerial order in ision of the investigation committee was estab- 2001 stating that this was the best guarantee lished to conduct the vaccine trials inquiry. The against a cover-up or a whitewash. He added that commission began its investigation with the first he would do everything in his power to find out trial which took place in 1960-61. One of the co- what happened. authors of the report of this trial was contacted The first problem arose when the Supreme to give evidence. Following discussions with the Court told an eminent professor the Commission legal representatives of the witness, the com- to Inquire into Child Abuse had not dealt fairly with him and he would not have to give evidence. mission sought to compel him by order of the In 2004 the High Court said the Minister had High Court to attend before them. The High acted outside his powers and that his order was Court compelled the witness to attend but the ultra vires and the case was thrown out. Not much judgment of the High Court was appealed to the has happened since then. Supreme Court and the direction to attend was What is the situation now? I have asked several quashed. times on the Order of Business whether legis- In the course of the judgment of the Supreme lation will be brought forward because it seems Court, the Supreme Court commented on the this is the only way to solve this problem. Mr. whole question of the legal validity of the statu- Justice O´ Cuı´v said in the High Court that other tory instrument. The issue was not expressly forms of inquiry might be possible. The Govern- determined in the Supreme Court case but obser- ment raised the hopes of the people concerned vations were made in the course of the judgment with this order. They want to know what hap- which cast some doubt on the legal validity of the pened and the matter to be completed. statutory instrument. The Supreme Court What does the Government intend to do? It is judgment made clear that section 4 of the Com- a year since the courts finalised this matter and mission to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000 the Government is sitting on it. I have raised it here and was led to believe that the Commission provides for persons who are abused to recount to Inquire into Child Abuse (Amendment) Bill their story to inquiry into the abuse and report 2005, which was published recently, would deal on the matter. Under this section, additional with the issue. As of last week, however, it seems powers may be conferred. However, the then that will not be the case. I fear this issue is being Chief Justice in the course of his judgment stated pushed aside and forgotten about. that there is no indication in the report of the The Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Chil- chief medical officer, which is recited as having dren referred this morning to the issue of the age led to invocation by the Government of its of witnesses. The issue is wider than that because powers under this provision, of any abuse of chil- the Government acted outside its dren within the meaning of the Act. This com- 5 o’clock powers in bringing forward this ment raised the issue of a subsequent challenge. order. The Bill will not deal with the On foot of the judgment, correspondence was issue. Will the Minister of State say what the received from legal representatives of another Government intends to do about this, if any- party involved in the conduct of the 1960-61 trial. thing? If it is going to act, what is the timeframe? This correspondence requested that the statutory The people whose lives have been on hold because of this want answers and I hope the Mini- instrument be revoked or appropriate legal action ster of State will provide them. would be taken. A judicial review on the validity of the order was sought and the High Court Mr. B. Lenihan: I am replying on behalf of the found that the statutory instrument was invalid Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children, and ultra vires the conferring powers in the legis- Deputy Harney. lation. As a result, it is not possible to further On 19 June 2001, the Government conferred investigate the matter using this legal route. The additional functions on the Commission to order will require revocation. Inquire into Child Abuse. This additional func- Procedures are being put in place to revoke the tion was to inquire into three vaccine trials statutory instrument in line with the judgment of referred to by the Deputy which were reported the courts. Under section 4(4) of the Commission on by the chief medical officer in his report on to Inquire into Child Abuse Act 2000, consul- three clinical trials involving babies and children tation between the Government and the Com- in institutional settings which took place between mission to Inquire into Child Abuse may take 1960 and 1961 and in 1970 and 1973 and was con- place before any order is amended or revoked. ferred by the Commission to Inquire into Child Discussions have taken place with the com- Abuse Act 2000 (Additional Functions) Order mission and other parties who have an interest 2001. An order was made under the 2000 Act in or are affected by these trials. Some of these conferring this additional function on the discussions are still ongoing, and until they have commission. been completed, I am not in a position to outline 1095 Community 14 April 2005. Employment Schemes 1096

[Mr. B. Lenihan.] Fifteen miles down the road in Tipperary town, the course of action which the Government will there is a care of the elderly scheme, the Excel take. scheme which supports cultural activity in the Excel centre in the town, the Canon Hayes centre Community Employment Schemes. scheme which supports all sorts of community sporting activity in the town, a community centre Mr. Healy: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for scheme which includes social services, meals on giving me an opportunity to raise this issue on the wheels and so on, a Moorehaven scheme and a Adjournment. On 5 April, I received a letter from Knockanrawley resource centre scheme and an FA´ S, the training and employment authority, in omnibus scheme which does excellent work in the response to a representation I made to the auth- Tipperary town. That is mirrored in every town ority regarding employment for a worker as a and village throughout the county. book-keeper. Part of the reply read as follows: If this capping is not reversed, there will be sig- Furthermore, the FA´ S budget for Com- nificant loss of employment and significant deci- munity Employment has been reduced by mation in the services provided by the schemes. approximately \1 million, resulting in cutbacks The services are not being provided by another in the south east region with cuts of 22 to be individual or agency. It is a very short-sighted achieved in Tipperary South by the end of proposal because the cost of with continuing April. these schemes is minimal. It costs approximately \20 a week per participant when one takes into Over the next week or ten days, I was contacted account that unemployment benefit, or some by scheme sponsors, participants and supervisors other type of social welfare payment will have to on the scheme. The situation is significantly worse ´ be paid. Will the Minister seriously consider than indicated initially in the reply from FAS. It reversing this capping and the financial cutbacks transpires that 193 participants on community in these schemes because otherwise significant employment schemes will lose their employment damage will be done to the fabric of society in by December this year, and a further 30%, or one towns and villages throughout the county? in three, of the supervisors will also lose employ- ment. This is as a result of the financial cutbacks Mr. B. Lenihan: I am replying on behalf of the but, more importantly, as a result of the three- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, year cap which the Minister introduced for par- Deputy Martin. I thank Deputy Healy for raising ticipants in the scheme aged 40 to 55 years. this matter on the Adjournment. This reduction is almost 50% of the number Community employment offers work experi- of participants involved in schemes in Tipperary ence and training opportunities for the long-term South. Approximately 500 participants are unemployed and other disadvantaged groups. involved in schemes in the constituency. By the The aim is to assist participants to progress to a end of this year, that number will almost be job in the open labour market. The number of halved. This will be a significant blow to local participants on community employment schemes communities. It will decimate the schemes. It will increased during 2004. It stood at 19,848 in mean that schemes will have to close, amalgamate January 2004 and increased to 22,194 by the end and, over a period of two to three years if this of the year. There was an overall increase in the capping is not reversed, we will see the demise of calendar year 2004 in the numbers of people on community employment schemes. community employment. I stress that the FA´ S I would like to indicate the type of valuable employment programmes, which comprise com- work carried out by people involved in these munity employment, social economy and the job schemes in just two towns in South Tipperary. In initiative, will provide a total of 25,000 places in Cashel, for instance, there are a number of 2005. schemes. The first scheme is a Cashel Town A total of \351 million was allocated to FA´ S Council scheme which is basically an environ- employment programmes in 2004 which was simi- mental scheme. There is also a scheme in the lar to the budgeted amount provided in 2003. In town by South Tipperary County Council which the region of \369 million will be spent by FA´ S is an environmental tidy towns scheme, a parish administering the programmes during the cur- scheme which supports local social services and rent year. the local community radio in the town, a sports Community employment is an active labour scheme which supports the local pitch and putt, market programme. It aims to assist the long- tennis, GAA, soccer and rugby clubs, a Cashel term unemployed and other disadvantaged per- town heritage scheme which supports heritage sons to progress into the labour market. A sec- and development in the town, a Bru´ Boru´ scheme ondary objective of the programme, as Deputy which supports Irish cultural events in Bru´ Boru´ Healy fairly pointed out, is to support service pro- in Cashel, a Brothers of Charity scheme and a vision in local communities. The reduction in the Nagle centre scheme which supports children level of places available during the years 1999 to with disabilities in the town of Cashel. 2003 reflected a refocusing of available resources 1097 Closed Circuit 14 April 2005. Television Systems 1098 towards training and other more appropriate sup- long-term unemployed and in the provision of ports and came as a result of the significant essential services within such communities decline in long-term unemployment which stood according to the level of resources available. at 8.9% in 1993 and decreased steadily from 1998 onwards to 1.4% in 2003. Closed Circuit Television Systems. ´ On foot of a review of FAS employment Mr. O’Dowd: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for schemes, which included detailed consultations selecting this matter and welcome the Minister of with the social partners, the Minister for State. Drogheda is now the largest town in Enterprise, Trade and Employment introduced Ireland, growing in population to outstrip any the following changes with effect from 10 Nov- other town, including Dundalk. More than 31,000 ember 2004. The three year cap was removed for people live in the town, but it has the same persons aged 55 and older, and those over the age number of gardaı´ — 90 — as five years ago of 55 are now eligible to participate in community despite the significant increase in population. employment for a maximum of six years. In the Similar to other town centres around the country, case of persons advancing beyond the age of 55 there are serious problems with anti-social behav- during their normal period of service in com- iour late at night. munity employment, participation can be It is essential that Drogheda is added to the list extended for up to a maximum of six years. of towns in receipt of CCTV cameras. There are This change is designed to address the part- 17 towns on the waiting list and I wish them all icular difficulty of finding replacements to partici- well, but Drogheda is not one of them. It demon- pate in community employment schemes in cer- strates the political neglect of this administration, tain rural areas. It will also help secure the particularly Fianna Fa´il, with regard to Drogheda continuity of community services generally. Com- by refusing to install CCTV cameras in the coun- bined with the rural social scheme, under the try’s largest town. aegis of the Minister for Community, Rural and The issue also relates to the sister town of Dun- Gaeltacht Affairs, which has 2,500 places avail- dalk. Its superintendent was last week pictured in able, the existing community service support The Argus and the Dundalk Democrat in front of framework will be maintained. a fine array of approximately 20 screens. He Current ring-fencing and prioritisation pro- spoke convincingly and clearly about the benefit cedures for the essential services of child care, of CCTV cameras in Dundalk, and we welcome health-related services and the drugs task force that. He is now in a position to declare that he are being maintained. wants to extend their use and I support him in Community employment will remain an active that regard. Drogheda has absolutely nothing. labour market programme with emphasis on pro- This is an issue of immediacy and we cannot gression to employment. For those under the age afford to wait until 2007. In a written response of 55, the normal service of up to three years earlier this week, I was told by the Minister that maximum will continue to apply subject to the the application currently on hand with the advis- current flexibility guidelines administered by ory committee will be finalised towards the end FA´ S. of 2006. This means that Drogheda cannot be The continuation of ring-fencing and the considered or included in the list until 2007, extended participation in community employ- which is totally unacceptable. We insist that the ment by older workers will help secure the conti- Government acts now and that the Minister fast- nuity of community services in general and will tracks Drogheda’s application on the simple ensure that the existing community service sup- grounds that it is the largest town in Ireland and port framework will be maintained. needs these cameras now. In addition to the changes introduced in com- munity employment, participants remaining on Mr. B. Lenihan: I am replying on behalf of the the job initiative, approximately 1,900, will have Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform their contracts renewed on an annual basis. Par- and thank the Deputy for raising the matter. I ticipants who voluntarily leave the programme hope to give him some information about this will be replaced by community employment par- subject. ticipants to support the service being provided. An application for a Garda CCTV system in There will be no compulsory cessation of social Drogheda has been received by the CCTV advis- economy programmes, which play a very valuable ory committee, which was established by the role in communities throughout the country. Garda Commissioner to advise on all matters When an enterprise makes the decision to cease relating to CCTV systems. activity, affected employees will be assisted by There are 17 CCTV schemes nationwide at FA´ S in finding alternative employment. installation, tender or planning stages. The I assure Deputy Healy and the House that locations were selected as priority based on polic- there will be no large-scale closure of schemes ing requirements throughout the country. The during 2005 and that overall numbers will be Garda CCTV programme is being implemented maintained during the year. The Government will on a phased basis. Phase one covered Bray, Dun- continue to support the positive role of com- dalk, Du´ n Laoghaire, Finglas, Galway and munity employment in meeting the needs of the Limerick, phase two will cover Athlone, 1099 The 14 April 2005. Adjournment 1100

[Mr. B. Lenihan.] the local community, cannot be regarded as a Clondalkin, Tallaght and Waterford and phase national Garda priority. three will cover Ballyfermot, Carlow, Castlebar, The Deputy may be aware that in May 2002, Clonmel, Ennis, Kilkenny and Sligo. While I the previous Minister for Justice, Equality and appreciate the Deputy is anxious that the case for Law Reform, Deputy O’Donoghue, laid the Drogheda be progressed, it is a tribute to the citi- ground work for a grant aid scheme to facilitate zens of Drogheda that it does not appear on this community-based groups who wished to press list. ahead with their local CCTV system. It is the current Minister’s intention to Mr. O’Dowd: The Minister should tell them implement that scheme with clear details of the that on a Friday night. application process, terms and conditions, a time- scale within which to apply in the first round and Mr. B. Lenihan: I am not denying the need. a clear commitment as to when funding will be The installation of phase one systems in Bray, available. Dundalk, Du´ n Laoghaire and Limerick has been Under the terms of this scheme, grant assist- completed and these systems are now fully oper- ance of up to \100,000 will, subject to the avail- ational. Thirteen of the 18 cameras in Galway are ability of funds, be obtainable from the Depart- also fully operational. It is proposed to install the ment towards the cost of such systems. It will be final five cameras in tandem with major redevel- up to the community groups, in conjunction with opment works currently being undertaken by the relevant local authority, to install, maintain Galway City Council in the Eyre Square area. and monitor community-based CCTV schemes. The issue regarding the provision of suitable The Minister is pleased that further to dis- space to accommodate the monitoring of CCTV cussions between their respective Departments, cameras in Finglas Garda station is currently his colleague, the Minister for Community, Rural ´ being considered, in conjunction with the Office and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy O Cuı´v, has given of Public Works, with regard to the overall a commitment to provide successful applications from RAPID areas with a further grant to a accommodation needs of Finglas Garda station. \ It is hoped that work can proceed to completion maximum of 100,000. This means that RAPID in Finglas in 2005. areas wishing to install their own CCTV system will be able to avail of an overall maximum grant Installation of the CCTV systems is of necessity \ a detailed, complex and lengthy process and of up to 200,000. because of this Garda authorities are now giving A decision has also been taken to engage Area careful consideration to a restructuring of the Development Management Limited, ADM, to administer and project manage the scheme and manner in which these systems go to tender. evaluate applications received. The Minister is anxious to accelerate the imple- There is a demonstrated demand from local mentation of the remainder of the Garda CCTV communities across Ireland for the provision of programme and reduce as much as possible the community CCTV systems and significant work workload of the Garda Sı´ocha´na in this regard. has been done in developing proposals which will He believes that the proposed restructuring of the allow communities to quickly define their needs tender process provides an opportunity to out- and submit high quality proposals for funding source the installation of Garda CCTV systems which have broad local support and high levels to the greatest possible extent, making use not of sustainability. only of technical but also project management The Minister intends to launch this scheme in expertise in the private sector. In that regard, he the coming weeks. By the end of July 2005, the has asked the Garda Commissioner to submit Department should be aware of the list of appli- proposals for a revised tender document for the cations to be funded in the first round. By year 11 locations in the remaining two phases, with a end, these communities could be well on the way view to achieving implementation in priority to having their CCTV systems in place. locations by the end of 2006. CCTV plays an important role in modern polic- The inclusion of other town centre locations, ing and has demonstrated its benefits in those including Drogheda, beyond the 17 already listed areas where it has been installed. The programme in the programme will be considered in the con- of installation is now being overhauled to ensure text of the Commissioner’s proposals. much faster implementation, and the town of Regarding community-based CCTV cameras in Drogheda is among the areas under consideration Drogheda, the Deputy will appreciate it is not for the next tranche of CCTV, once the existing possible for the Garda Sı´ocha´na to install CCTV programme has been implemented. systems in all areas that have sought them. Some applications received by the advisory committee The Da´il adjourned at 5.20 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. relate to schemes which, while of importance to on Tuesday, 19 April 2005. 1101 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1102

Written Answers. Maidir leis an gceist a´irithe ata´ ag an Teachta, bı´onn teagmha´il rialta agam leis an Aire Oidea- The following are questions tabled by Members chais agus Eolaı´ochta, mar a bhı´onn le mo for written response and the ministerial replies chomhghleacaithe eile sa Rialtas. Mar a mhı´nigh received from the Departments [unrevised]. me´ cheana, cuirfear Acht na dTeangacha Oifigi- u´ la i bhfeidhm ar bhonn ce´imnitheach, i Questions Nos. 1 to 8, inclusive, answered gcomhre´ir le he´ilimh o´ n bpobal ar sheirbhı´sı´ ar orally. leith agus bheifı´ ag su´ il, mar sin, go dtiocfaidh feabhas da´ re´ir ar chumas na hearna´la poiblı´ Local Authority Funding. seirbhı´sı´ a sheachadadh trı´ mhea´n na Gaeilge thar 9. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Com- thre´imhse ama. Mar chuid la´rnach den phro´ iseas munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, further to forbartha sin, beidh se´ riachtanach dı´riu´ nı´ Question No. 189 of 1 December 2004, the means amha´in ar an gco´ ras scolaı´ochta, ach freisin ar by which translators were selected for inclusion dheiseanna a chruthu´ do dhaoine ata´ fostaithe on the list of translators; the means by which cheana fe´in chun feabhas agus snas a chur ar a further translators will be added to this list; and gcuid Gaeilge. if he will make a statement on the matter. Ta´ mo Roinnse ag obair, nı´ amha´in leis an [11406/05] Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´ochta, ach le Foras na Gaeilge, Gaeleagras na Seirbhı´se Poiblı´,An Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Foras Riaracha´in agus institiu´ idı´ trı´u´ leibhe´al Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): As indicated in my chun a chinntiu´ go gcuirfear leis an sola´thar sain- reply to Question No. 189 of 1 December 2004, chu´ rsaı´ dı´rithe ar riachtanais na hearna´la poiblı´ i Foras na Gaeilge has initiated a process by which nda´il le cur i bhfeidhm an Achta. a quality assurance system will be put in place for private sector translation services. For the infor- Irish Language. mation of the Deputy, Foras na Gaeilge recently 11. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Com- published a notice in the media inviting sub- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, further to missions in relation to this matter. When in place, Question No. 135 of 24 March 2005 and following this quality assurance scheme will be of important the third meeting of Foras Na Gaeilge in March practical assistance to public bodies that need to 2005 and the examination of the various sub- source external translation services. It is and will missions by officials of his Department, if he will remain the responsibility of third parties to reconsider his position regarding the non-publi- inform themselves of the translation services cation of these submissions in view of the urgent available and to satisfy themselves as to the qual- need to engage the public at large in the debate ity and value for money of the services on offer. regarding the development of an Irish language In relation to the list referred to, the position plan and related short-term priority issues; and if is that my Department maintains a list of trans- he will make a statement on the matter. lators for internal use and has made it available to [11405/05] other public bodies on request. Translators who wished to have their names placed on the list did Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht so by writing to my Department with their con- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The third meeting of tact details. The inclusion of a translator on this Fo´ ram na Gaeilge is due to take place on 28 list neither purported to be nor constituted a April 2005. recommendation or an endorsement by my As the Deputy is aware, I have already asked Department of any translator listed. The list will members to submit their views in relation to the be superseded by the quality assurance system development of an Irish language plan and being put in place by Foras na Gaeilge. related short-term priority issues. There has been a good response to this from the members and Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la. officials of my Department are currently examin- ing the various submissions. 10. D’fhiafraigh Ms O’Sullivan den Aire Gno´ - The position in relation to publication of the thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an raibh submissions at this time is set out in my previous cainteanna aige go fo´ ill leis an Roinn Oideachais reply referred to by the Deputy. agus Eolaı´ochta ar an me´id a bhı´ le ra´ ag an gCo- imisine´ir Teanga faoi easpa cumais no´ easpa Decentralisation Programme. lı´ofachta sa Ghaeilge i measc an oiread sin d’fhos- taithe an Sta´tcho´ rais; agus an nde´anfaidh se´ 12. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Com- ra´iteas ina leith. [11386/05] munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the position with regard to applications from his Department Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht to the central applications facility in regard to the Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuıv): Dı´rı´m aird an Teachta ´ decentralisation of his Department; if there has ar na freagraı´ ata´ tugtha agam cheana fe´in inniu been an improvement on the 157 applications maidir leis na tuairimı´ agus moltaı´ ata´ nochtaithe received up to February 2005; and if he will make ag an gCoimisine´ir Teanga ina Thuarasca´il a statement on the matter. [11381/05] Tionscnaimh a foilsı´odh le de´anaı´. 1103 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1104

Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Paul Park Centre in Cabra, Finglas Youth Centre Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Notification of 157 and Donnycarney Youth and Community Centre. applications was received by this Department on The City of Dublin Youth Services Board, 15 February 2005. These applications included CDYSB, and County Dublin VEC manage the staff’s first preferences only. The Deputy will be vast majority of service provision under the aware that the CAF system remains open on an YPFSF. The years 2002 and 2003 were, in the ongoing basis and that staff can continue to apply main, capacity building periods for services sup- or change their preferences as they wish. No ported through the fund. I can say, however, that further update on applications has been received in that period approximately 3,000 young people from CAF since that date. per annum availed of services provided through these agencies. The majority of the larger facili- Youth Services. ties allocated funding under round I were com- 13. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Com- pleted towards the end of 2003 and this, along munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number with the additional allocations made under round of projects which received funding under the II, will allow for a marked increase in the number young people’s facilities and services fund in of young people availing of the services and facili- 2002, 2003 and 2004; the number of young per- ties funded through the YPFSF in the coming sons who benefited from activities funded in years. these years; the success of this fund in diverting It is fair to say that the most significant at risk young persons away from substance mis- achievement of the fund to date has been the pro- use; and if he will make a statement on the vision of high quality services and facilities in matter. [11465/05] areas where, traditionally, there had been very little. Many of these areas had virtually nothing Minister of State at the Department of Com- in the way of facilities up to recently and very munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. little in the way of activities to offer young Ahern): As the Deputy is aware, the young people. I believe the facilities being supported people’s facilities and services fund, YPFSF, was have the potential to become active and vibrant set up in 1998 to assist in the development of places in the communities where young people youth facilities, including sport and recreational can find positive alternatives to drugs. facilities, and services in disadvantaged areas The challenge now facing the projects being where a significant drug problem exists or has the funded as part of the YPFSF is to increase their potential to develop. The main aim of the fund is usage to the maximum extent possible. I am satis- to attract “at risk” young people in disadvantaged fied that the procedures that have been put in areas into these facilities and activities and divert place through organisations and communities them away from the dangers of substance misuse. involved with the fund will ensure this happens in To date, approximately 450 facility and services the coming years. projects are being supported under the fund. I am pleased to inform the Deputy that there As part of the first round of allocations of the will be a further round of capital funding under YPFSF — 1999-2003, over \68 million was allo- the YPFSF in LDTF areas in 2005. The appli- cated to support the development of almost 300 cations are currently being assessed and I hope to facility and services projects. The vast majority of make allocations in the next month or two. I am this funding was allocated to projects in local confident that through this additional funding the drugs task force areas. A further \15.7 million valuable work undertaken by the fund to date can was allocated under the second round of the fund be further consolidated and built on. during the course of 2004 bringing the total allo- cation under the fund to date to almost \85 Rural Development. million. 14. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Com- Through the funding allocated under round II, munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the initiat- a number of new dedicated youth and community ives he intends to take over the course of the next centres will be built in areas such as Darndale in year to promote rural development; and if he will north Dublin, Ballyfermot in west Dublin, make a statement on the matter. [11408/05] Knockmitten in Clondalkin, Brookfield in Tallaght, Ballywaltrim in Bray and Knock- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht naheeny in Cork city. In addition, the Deputy Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The rural development should note that: grants for a wide and diverse goal of my Department is to promote and main- variety of youth work projects across the 14 drugs tain living and working populations in rural areas task force areas were approved under round II; by helping to foster sustainable and culturally and substantial funding was allocated towards the vibrant communities there. In that context, my staffing and operational costs of a number of the Department’s rural development initiatives in the large-scale youth-community centres built under next year will include: continued implementation round I and which have been completed in the of the CLA´ R and Leader programmes and the last 12 to 18 months. These include St. rural social scheme; implementation of the farm Catherine’s in Dublin’s south inner city, John electrification grant scheme, for which I recently 1105 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1106 assumed responsibility from the Minister for rural social scheme. The rural social scheme pro- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources; vides ongoing income and employment support advancing the work of Comhairle na Tuaithe; to small farmers and fishermen who can no longer working in close co-operation with the Depart- make a viable living from such work and is one ment of Agriculture and Food and the EU Com- that fully meets the objectives of the dormant mission in the negotiations on the adoption of the accounts scheme. draft EU Regulation on Rural Development for The Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill the period 2007-2013; consideration, in co-oper- 2004 was published on 24 June 2004 fulfilling a ation with relevant Departments, of action on the commitment given by Government in December review of rural enterprise supports; support of 2003 following its review of arrangements in projects under the rural development fund; pro- relation to dormant accounts funding. The Bill is moting debate and progressing rural development currently before the Oireachtas and, inter alia, issues through the National Rural Development provides for significant changes to the disburse- Forum; continuation of cross-Border co-oper- ment process and for the establishment of a ation in rural development; leading the Rural reconstituted board. Development Co-ordinating Committee under the NDP; participation as appropriate in inter- departmental committees on issues appropriate Charitable Trusts. to rural development such as the national spatial 16. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Com- strategy; continuation of support to the Western munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the Development Commission in the discharge of its measures being taken by his Department in functions; and reviewing and updating priorities responding to the recent Law Reform Com- to be addressed under the White Paper on mission consultation paper on charitable Rural Development. trusts. [11436/05] Dormant Accounts Fund. 113. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the way in 15. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- which he proposes to act upon the Law Reform munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the total Commission’s recent recommendations concern- resources accruing to his Department from the dormant accounts fund for expenditure in 2005; ing charitable trusts. [7060/05] the extent to which he intends to combat urban Minister of State at the Department of Com- and rural disadvantage on foot of these resources; munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. and if he will make a statement on the matter. Ahern): I propose to take Question Nos. 16 and [11394/05] 113 together. Minister of State at the Department of Com- In 2004, the Law Reform Commission agreed munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. to assist and advise my Department on addressing Ahern): The Deputy will be aware that disburse- issues raised in the section on Governance in my ments from the dormant accounts fund are for Department’s consultation paper on establishing the purpose of assisting three broad categories of a modern statutory framework for charities, as persons — those who are economically or socially these relate to charitable trusts. disadvantaged; those who are educationally On 16 February 2005, I launched the consul- disadvantaged and persons with a disability. tation paper on charitable trust law reform, which Decisions on the disbursement of funds from dor- had been prepared by the Law Reform Com- mant accounts moneys are currently a matter for mission. The deadline for submissions is tomor- the Dormant Accounts Fund Disbursements row, 15 April 2005. The public consultation, on Board, an independent body established under the basis of this consultation paper, represents the the Dormant Accounts Acts. first stage in a two-stage process. To date, the board has approved 475 projects That process involves first, a consultation paper for funding totalling approximately \51.5 million — the stage that the proposals on charitable trust from the initial total allocation of \60 million. In law reform are at — and then a report. As a con- accordance with the board’s disbursement plan, the bulk of this funding is initially being targeted sultation paper is intended to form the basis for at those areas, urban and rural, designated as discussion, the recommendations, conclusions most disadvantaged. and suggestions contained in it are provisional. To date, the only resources from the dormant The Law Reform Commission proceeds to make accounts fund which have accrued directly to my its final recommendations in a report following Department were in respect of funding for the the public consultation and further consideration rural social scheme. In July 2004, following con- of the issues. sultation with the board and in accordance with In that context, the Deputy will appreciate that the terms of the Dormant Accounts Act 2001 as consideration of follow-up action as regards amended, \10 million from the fund was trans- charitable trust Law would be premature at the ferred to my Department to partly finance the present time. 1107 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1108

Irish Language. of awareness of the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6968/05] 17. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if discussions Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht at EU level with regard to the official status of Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The scheme, the details the Irish language have been concluded; if not, of which were announced in May 2004, accepted when he expects these discussions to finish; the its first participants in July 2004 and the numbers situation on this issue; if he is continuing to liaise have been increasing steadily since then. I with the Department of Foreign Affairs regarding consider that substantial progress has been made these discussions; and if he will make a statement in this period of time. There are currently 1461 on the matter. [11403/05] participants on the rural social scheme. There are Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 36 implementing bodies throughout the country and of those so far 32 have commenced projects Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I would refer the Deputy to the reply given by my colleague, the under the scheme to date. Minister for Foreign Affairs, to Question No. 459 In addition, all 36 implementing bodies are on Tuesday last, 12 April 2005. continuing their work in ensuring that there is a As I have indicated on a number of occasions high level of awareness of the scheme in their in this House, it would not be appropriate for me communities. I also continue to avail of to make any public comment on the detail of the opportunities regularly to raise awareness about ongoing discussions with our partners and the the scheme in relevant public fora. institutions in the EU until they have been I expect the participant numbers will continue brought to a conclusion. to increase and that all 2,500 will be availed of in the near future. Biu´ ro´ Eorpach do Theangacha Neamh- fhlorleathana. Community Development. 18. D’fhiafraigh Mr. M. Higgins den Aire 20. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Gno´ thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta ce´n Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the ´ tairbhe a thagann as an ı´ocaı´ocht bhliantu´ il leis position regarding the CLAR programme; the an mBiu´ ro´ Eorpach do Theangacha Neamh- expenditure he anticipates in this regard for the fhlorleathana; agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina remainder of 2005; and if he will make a leith. [11389/05] statement on the matter. [11402/05] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 32. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Ta´ maoiniu´ curtha ar Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he fa´il ag mo Roinnse don Bhiu´ ro´ Eorpach do intends to extend the CLA´ R area; and if he will Theangacha Neamh-Fhorleathana go rialta le make a statement on the matter. [11281/05] blianta beaga anuas, agus ta´ maoiniu´ curtha ar Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht fa´il don Bhiu´ ro´ arı´s i mbliana ar bhonn sealadach. Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I propose to take Is iad na prı´omh-spriocanna ata´ ag an mBiu´ ro´ Questions Nos. 20 and 32 together. do 2005 na´: leanu´ int le heolas a chur ar fa´il agus I introduced the CLA´ R programme in October a roinnt maidir leis na dteangacha neamh- 2001 to address depopulation, as well as the fhorleathana i gcomhthe´acs obair na n-instiu´ idı´ decline and lack of services in rural areas. Areas Eorpacha agus tionchar na n-instiu´ idı´ sin ar na in 18 counties, with a population of 362,000, have teangacha; seiminea´ir, comhdha´lacha agus been selected under the programme, including cruinnithe eile a eagru´ maidir le cu´ rsaı´ teanga; areas I announced in January 2003 in light of the saineolaithe teangacha neamh-fhorleathana a 2002 population census data. This honoured the chur i dteagmha´il lena che´ile; agus forbairt a commitment to review in An Agreed Programme dhe´anamh ar an ionad nuachta Eurolang. for Government. Areas included are those that Mar thoradh ar athbhreithniu´ ata´ de´anta ag an suffered the greatest population decline from mBiu´ ro´ fe´in, tugtar dom go bhfuil se´ i gceist go 1926 to 2002 with an average population loss of mbeidh an Biu´ ro´ ag ple´ le teangacha eile an AE 50%. The exception is the Cooley Peninsula, as seo amach, teangacha gur teangacha na´isiu´ nta which was included on the basis of the serious iad ach gur teangacha beaga iad ar sca´la difficulties caused there by foot and mouth domhanda san a´ireamh. Coimea´dfar ro´ lna disease. heagraı´ochta faoi athbhreithniu´ chomh maith o´ There are no plans for any further review of thaobh dul chun cinn sta´da´s na Gaeilge san AE. the boundary of CLA´ R areas. I can also confirm that no other significant areas fulfil the Rural Social Scheme. population criteria for inclusion in CLA´ R. 19. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for CLA´ R funds or co-funds, together with other Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if she Departments, State agencies and local will report on the success of the rural social authorities, investment in selected priority scheme to date; the number of participants on the developments. These investments are made scheme; if she has satisfied herself with the level through a series of more than 20 measures, which 1109 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1110 support physical, economic and social general; and if he will make a statement on the infrastructure such as electricity conversion, matter. [11400/05] roads, water and sewerage, village, housing and Minister of State at the Department of Com- schools enhancement, health, broadband and munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. sports and community projects. The measures Ahern): As the Deputy is aware, my Department reflect the priorities identified by the has overall responsibility for co-ordinating the communities in the selected areas I consulted at implementation of the National Drugs Strategy the start of the programme. 2001-2008. The strategy contains 100 individual The measures were agreed with and are, for actions, under the four pillars of supply reduction, the most part, operated in tandem with the lead prevention, treatment and research, to be Departments, State agencies or public utilities, as implemented by a range of Departments and appropriate. This ensures efficiency and agencies. In this regard, I am aware of the recent effectiveness and meets the needs of the people comments made by the Dublin city coroner with in the CLA´ R areas. I intend to continue this regards to heroin use. practice for new measures I may introduce, The Deputy should note that the National depending on identified needs. Equally, I will Advisory Committee on Drugs, NACD, for keep the operation of existing measures under which my Department has responsibility, pub- review. lished a study on the prevalence of opiate misuse The merits of this practice are reflected in the in Ireland in May 2003. The study found that successful delivery of the programme and vividly there were 14,452 people opiate users in Ireland demonstrates that relatively small amounts of in the year 2001 — the latest date for which fig- public funding, specifically targeted, can have a ures are available. It estimated that there are profound and positive impact in disadvantaged 12,456 opiate users in Dublin, which is a rural areas. Expenditure under the programme reduction of approximately 1,000 on the previous amounted to \14.14million in 2002, \8.613 million figures for 1996. I am sure the Deputy will agree in 2003 and \12.116 million in 2004 which, it is that the reduction identified is encouraging, as is estimated, levered out a further \36.5 million in the finding that the numbers of users in the 15 related public and private expenditure in those to 24 years age bracket has reduced substantially, three years. which may point to a lower rate of initiation into The Estimates provision for 2005 is \13.7 heroin misuse. million. Expenditure in the first quarter was just \1 million and I am confident that, once again, a Despite these encouraging trends, I am aware comprehensive work programme will be that heroin use remains a very serious issue and completed this year and that the balance of the in this regard, the Government is committed to allocation will be expended. working in partnership with communities most affected by drug misuse through the local and U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. regional drugs task forces. The implementation of the 100 actions in the national drugs strategy 21. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for remains a key priority and, in this context, efforts Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the are continuing to increase the availability of treat- position regarding his promised review into the ment and rehabilitation options for heroin functions of U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. [11442/05] misusers. Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht These and other issues featured prominently in Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): As I indicated in my the mid-term review of the drugs strategy which reply to Question No. 103 on 9 Samhain 2004, it is currently being finalised. I will be bringing the is proposed to clarify and update issues in relation report of the steering group on the review to the to the functions of U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta and to Cabinet Committee on Social Inclusion for con- consolidate the existing body of legislation. sideration at the end of this month. Arising from the public consultation process 23. Mr. English asked the Minister for Com- which I initiated earlier this year, more than 60 munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs when he responses have been received from various expects the mid-term review of the national drugs organisations and individuals. These are presently strategy to be completed; his views on whether being evaluated by officials of my Department. changes to the strategy are necessary; and if he I hope to be in a position to bring proposals to will make a statement on the matter. [11461/05] Government later this year. 25. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Com- National Drugs Strategy. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the position regarding the mid term review of the national 22. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Com- drugs strategy. [11434/05] munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his atten- tion has been drawn to recent comments from the 45. Mr. Broughan asked the Minister for Com- Dublin city coroner that heroin remains one of munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in view of the greatest social problems in society; the latest the publication of the report of the steering group initiatives he has taken to combat heroin use in overseeing the mid-term review of the national 1111 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1112

[Mr. Broughan.] Voluntary Sector Organisations. drugs strategy, he has finalised his recommend- 24. Ms Lynch asked the Minister for Com- ations to the Cabinet Committee on Social munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his atten- Inclusion; and if he will make a statement on the tion has been drawn to criticisms of his decision matter. [11378/05] to withdraw funding from the Community 54. Mr. English asked the Minister for Com- workers Co-operative following the closure of munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he is satis- CWC at the beginning of April 2005; if he intends fied with the findings of the recently published to restore funding to the Community Workers national drugs strategy progress report; the Co-operative; and if he will make a statement on measures he intends to take to address short- the matter. [11399/05] comings identified in the strategy; and if he will 27. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Com- make a statement on the matter. [11462/05] munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the details of the most recent meeting that occurred between Minister of State at the Department of Com- his Department and the Community Workers Co- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. operative. [11429/05] Ahern): I propose to take Question Nos. 23, 25, 37. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Com- 45 and 54 together. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on As the Deputies are aware, my Department has whether his recent decision to cut funding to the overall responsibility for co-ordinating the imple- CWC will undermine its ability to work on behalf mentation of the National Drugs Strategy 2001- of the community and voluntary sector; if he will 2008. The strategy contains 100 individual actions consider reversing this decision; and if he will to be implemented by a range of Departments make a statement on the matter. [11463/05] and agencies. In this regard, a progress report covering the Minister of State at the Department of Com- first three years of the strategy, up to mid-2004, munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. was published in late March 2005. The report, Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 24, 27 which was compiled by my Department with and 37 together. input from the key stakeholders involved in the I dealt comprehensively with this issue in the strategy, looks at the nature and extent of drug House already. I refer the Deputies in particular misuse in Ireland drawing on relevant research. to my replies to Questions Nos. 4 and 5 of 22 It also highlights a number of key areas where February and Nos. 360 and 367 on 22 March 2005. progress has been made across the four pillars of Since the decision to discontinue funding under the national anti-poverty networks programme the strategy as well as looking at developments in was communicated to the CWC on 17 December relation to other drugs initiatives such as the local 2004, my Department has facilitated the CWC by drugs task forces and the young people’s facilities holding a series of separate meetings with their and services fund. Both these initiatives are representatives. funded by my Department. At the most recent meeting the CWC was The Deputies will also be aware that a mid- afforded the opportunity to again raise questions term review of the drugs strategy is currently about the decision to respond to the view that it nearing completion. The review was overseen by does not represent any identifiable group or com- a steering group, chaired by my Department, and munity experiencing disadvantage and to hear the made up of representatives from a number of rel- responses of the Department and the Minister. evant Departments and agencies as well as the I am fully satisfied, therefore, that the CWC community and voluntary sectors. The group was has been afforded exhaustive access to appeal the tasked with examining the overall progress made decision. I do not believe the group has demon- to date in implementing the strategy and with strated a basis for reversing my decision at any of identifying future priorities for the remaining these meetings. period up to 2008. The relevance of the strategy in tackling the current nature and extent of drug Question No. 25 answered with Question misuse in Ireland, including emerging trends, was No. 23. also examined. The findings from the progress report fed into the mid-term review process. Irish Language. The steering group has now completed its work 26. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Com- and its report was submitted to the Inter-depart- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in relation mental Group on Drugs, which I chair, on Mon- to his Da´il reply of 22 February 2005, he will elab- day last, 11 April 2005. It is planned that the orate on his comment that people coming to this report will be discussed by the Cabinet Commit- country tend to be open to the idea of learning tee on Social Inclusion at its next meeting on not only English but Irish as well; the evidence Wednesday, 27 April 2005. I hope to be in a posi- he has to back up these claims; if he has statistics tion to publish the report during May. to confirm such conclusions; the basis on which 1113 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1114 he makes this comment; and if he will make a With regard to the tourism role of Waterways statement on the matter. [11395/05] Ireland, I refer the Deputy to my reply to Ques- tion No. 373 of 22 March 2005. 33. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in relation Aistritheoirı´ Be´arla-Gaeilge. to his Da´il reply of 22 February 2005, he will elab- orate on a comment of his (details supplied); the 29. D’fhiafraigh Ms Burton den Aire Gno´ thaı´ evidence he has to back up these claims; if he has Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta conas is fe´idir le statistics to confirm these conclusions; the basis duine cla´ru´ mar aistritheoir i dtreo is gur fe´idir on which he made this comment; and if he will leis an duine sin dul ar an liosta aistritheoirı´ make a statement on the matter. [11396/05] Be´arla-Gaeilge ata´ ar fa´il o´ n Roinn; agus an nde´- anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina leith. [11384/05] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I propose to take Ques- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht tions Nos. 26 and 33 together. Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I dtosach ba´ire, nı´ miste I cannot accept the proposition inherent in the dom a mhiniu´ go bhfuil Foras na Gaeilge i mbun Deputies’ questions that a public representative pro´ isis faoi la´thair chun co´ ras creidiu´ naithe d’ais- may not be permitted to make statements of tritheoirı´ a fhorbairt don earna´il phrı´obha´ideach informed opinion — whether by way of reply to aistriu´ cha´in. Mar eolas don Teachta, bhı´ fo´ gra questions in this House or otherwise — without oifigiu´ il o´ n bhForas sna mea´in le de´anaı´ ag lorg having carried out a qualitative survey or statisti- aighneachtaı´ faoin a´bhar seo. Nuair a bheidh an cal analysis beforehand. The statements I made co´ ras sin i bhfeidhm, is cinnte gur cu´ namh praitic- ´ ´ ´ in my supplementary replies to Question No. 14 iuil fıor-thabhachtach a bheidh ann do chomhlachtaı´ poiblı´ a bheidh ag iarraidh u´ sa´id a on 22 February 2005 are on the record of the bhaint as seirbhı´sı´ o´ aistritheoirı´ prı´obha´ideacha. House. As statements of opinion, they are Ar ndo´ igh, is gno´ do chomhlachtaı´ poiblı´ iad fe´in informed by my experience, both personally as a a sha´samh maidir leis na seirbhı´sı´ aistriu´ cha´in ata´ public representative and as Minister with ar fa´il, chomh maith le caighdea´n agus luach ar responsibilities for Irish language issues. They are airgid na seirbhı´sı´ sin. statements which appear reasonable and accurate Maidir leis an liosta d’aistritheoirı´ a bhfuil to many people involved in Irish language issues tagairt de´anta ag an Teachta do´ , is amhlaidh go and require no further explanation. bhfuil liosta aistritheoirı´ d’u´ sa´id inmhea´nach cur- tha i dtoll a che´ile ag mo Roinnse ach go gcuirtear Question No. 27 answered with Question an liosta ar fa´il d’aı´ochtaı´ eile san earna´il phoiblı´ No. 24. ma´ thagann siad a´ lorg. Nı´ ghlacann mo Roinnse aon fhreagracht maidir le caighdea´n na n-aistri- Waterways Ireland. theoirı´ ar an liosta sin agus nı´ co´ ras cla´ru´ cha´in ata´ 28. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for i gceist. Is amhlaidh gur sheol na haistritheoirı´ a Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the bhfuil a n-ainmneacha ar an liosta a gcuid sonraı´ position regarding recent problems in Waterways teagmha´la chuig mo Roinn in e´indı´ le hiarratas Ireland; if this North-South body will be allowed go gcuirfı´ ar an liosta iad. Ar ndo´ igh, to´ gfaidh to develop tourism on waterways here in a com- an co´ ras creidiu´ naithe ata´ idir la´mha ag Foras na petent and professional manner. [9149/05] Gaeilge a´it an liosta sin ar ball.

Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Cla´rDı´larnu´ . Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): An investigation into allegations of bullying and harassment and 30. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Gno´ - related matters in Waterways Ireland has been thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta cad e´ an dul jointly carried out, with the consent of the parties chun cinn ata´ de´anta maidir le foireann a dhı´la´rnu´ involved, by independent investigators appointed o´ n Roinn, ce´nlı´on sta´tseirbhı´seach o´ na Roinn, by my Department and the Department of Cul- agus a ngra´d,ale´irigh suim i ndı´la´rnu´ o´ n Roinn i ´ ture, Arts and Leisure in the North. The report mBaile Atha Cliath go dtı´ na hionaid ata´ roghnai- of the investigators has been submitted to the the ar fud na tı´re agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas Departments and its conclusions and recom- ina thaobh. [11424/05] mendations have been considered and accepted Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht by the Departments. The actions to be taken fol- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Tuigfidh an Teachta, ar lowing the findings of the report have been ndo´ igh, go bhfuil an pro´ ise´as dı´la´raithe in aon agreed by the Departments with the chief execu- Roinn Sta´it ag brath ar an dul chun cinn ata´ a´ tive of Waterways Ireland. bhaint amach ag an nGru´ pa Forfheidhmithe On 4 April 2005, my Department and the La´rnach. Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure issued Le´irigh 45 duine ata´ fostaithe i mo Roinn fe´in a joint statement on the matter, which has been suim i ndı´la´rnu´ o´ n Roinn i mBaile A´ tha Cliath copied to the Deputy. It is not proposed to make go dtı´ Ranna eile ar fud na tı´re, briste sı´os mar any further comment about the investigation. seo leanas: 1115 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1116

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] cuirfear da´ re´ir le hu´ sa´id na Gaeilge ar bhonn lae- thu´ il ar fud na tı´re. Prı´omhoifigeach Cu´ nta 5

Ardoifigeach Feidhmiu´ cha´in 14 Question No. 32 answered with Question No. 20. Oifigeach Riaracha´in 2

Oifigeach Feidhmiu´ cha´in 11 Question No. 33 answered with Question No. 26. Oifigeach Cle´ireachais 12 Oifigeach Logainmneacha 1 Voluntary Activity. 34. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Com- Iomla´n45munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if, in view of the current Exchequer surplus, he intends to fully Chomh maith leis sin, chuir oifigigh de chuid mo meet the funding commitments originally set out Roinne-se i mBaile A´ tha Cliath, lasmuigh de in the White Paper on voluntary activity; and if he re´imse na hard-bhainistı´ochta, iarratais isteach will make a statement on the matter. [11464/05] chun dı´la´ru´ le mo Roinnse mar seo leanas: Minister of State at the Department of Com- Na Forbacha munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. Ahern): I refer the Deputy to my response to Oifigeach Cle´ireachais 2 Question No. 63 on 14 December 2004. As I indi- Oifigeach Seirbhı´se 1 cated in that response, while the broad principles of the White Paper remain, it is appropriate that Iomla´n3the mechanisms for addressing these be adjusted Cnoc Mhuire to appropriately reflect wider developments including contextual, programme and structural Ardoifigeach Feidhmiu´ cha´in 2 changes. Oifigeach Feidhmiu´ cha´in 3 In any event, current funding commitments to Oifigeach Cle´ireachais 1 support certain community and voluntary activity Ardoifigeach Seirbhisı´ 1 exceed the \9 million projected in the White Iomla´n7Paper as the following appendix indicates.

Appendix Under the funding scheme to support the role Polasaı´ Da´theangachas. of federations, networks and umbrella bodies, 32 31. D’fhiafraigh Ms O’Sullivan den Aire Gno´ - groups are currently being funded totalling \5.48 thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta cathain a million over three years. Under the funding rinne an Rialtas an cinneadh tı´r fhı´or-dha´thean- scheme for training and supports, 20 projects are gach a chruthu´ ina mbeidh Gaeilge agus Be´arla currently being funded totalling \1.83 million ag formho´ r an phobail agus ina mbeidh Gaeilge over three years. The National Anti-Poverty Net- agus Be´arla in u´ sa´id acu go laethu´ il ar fud na tı´re; works are being funded to a total of \4.1 million agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina leith. over three years. The Department is funding vol- [11388/05] unteering through its existing grants to three vol- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht unteer groups totalling \829,595 over a three year Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Ta´ sta´da´s tugtha don period. In the new volunteering package, Ghaeilge mar che´ad teanga na´isiu´ nta i mBunre- announced in March 2005, core funding will be acht na hE´ ireann, ar ghlac an pobal le´i i reifrinn provided to six further volunteer bureaux total- sa bhliain 1937, agus, a´r ndo´ igh, roimhe sin i ling \900,000 over the next three years. A further mBunreacht an tSaorsta´it o´ 1922. Mar sin, nı´ ceist \500,000 of local area partnership funding is ı´ seo faoi chinneadh a bheith de´anta ag an being ring-fenced for measures that encourage Rialtas, no´ ag aon Rialtas ar leith roimhe seo, ach volunteers and volunteering. A further \500,000 ceist maidir le feidhmiu´ beartais phoiblı´ ar bhonn of the Department’s Cohesion Fund will be spent leanu´ nach o´ bunaı´odh an Sta´t. Ta´ dualgas bunre- on measures that will promote volunteers and achtu´ il, mar sin, ar chuile Rialtas an Ghaeilge a volunteering locally. Funding totalling \600,000 is chur chun cinn mar an teanga na´isiu´ nta agus mar being provided to support the young social inno- theanga bheo, labhartha. vators programme, including the annual showcase Mar is eol don Teachta, gan amhras, rinne an awards, over three years. Funding totalling Rialtas seo cinneadh an Bille Teanga a chur ar \330,000 over three years is also being provided aghaidh. Is ı´ an chuspo´ ir is mo´ ata´ ag Acht na to the DIT community learning programme, dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la na´ a chinntiu´ go mbeidh CLP, which is an example of a new teaching seirbhı´sı´ poiblı´ ar fa´il i rogha teanga oifigiu´ la an method called service-learning and, works by tsaora´naigh. Thar thre´imhse ama, cinnteoidh an integrating classroom learning in any subject with tAcht ar bhonn ce´imnitheach go mbeidh re´imse suitable volunteering activity. nı´os mo´ de sheirbhı´sı´ poiblı´ ar fa´il as Gaeilge agus 1117 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1118

Grant Aid. scheme; and if he will make a statement on the 35. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for uptake to date of the places on the scheme. Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the [11410/05] reason grant money given in error by U´ dara´sna Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Gaeltachta has not been sought back in return. Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The rural social scheme [11437/05] was introduced in 2004 to provide directly Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht improved rural services and at the same time, Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): In my replies to pre- within a working arrangement compatible with vious questions on this matter and in particular farming or fishing, secure an income and employ- to Question No. 40 on 14 December 2004, I set ment support for farmers and fishermen who can out the position in regard to the grant paid by no longer make a viable living from such U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta to the company in this occupations. case. That position remains unchanged. The scheme was designed specifically for farm- ing and fishing families and its operations and Voluntary Activity. structures are operated in a manner to facilitate 36. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Com- them. The scheme recognised that farmers and munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the pro- fishermen have a wealth of experience and talents posals he has to make available a national volun- that need to be preserved for future generations teering passport which will provide a useful and these talents are being harnessed for the record of voluntary activity over the lifetime of a good of the community. The scheme focuses on person; and if he will make a statement on the the provision of direct services in the community. matter. [11398/05] The rates of payment for those transferring from farm assist, unemployment assistance and 53. Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Com- unemployment benefit, if previously on a com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the dis- munity employment scheme, are the same as that cussions he has had with the Department of Edu- for community employment. If a participant’s cation and Science in regard to locating current social welfare payment includes a volunteering centres on the campuses of third reduced rate for an adult dependant, then the level institutions to ensure the comprehensive exposure of young persons to the voluntary sec- equivalent will be paid on the rural social scheme. tor; and if he will make a statement on the Participants in receipt of disability allowance matter. [11404/05] continue to receive their disability allowance pay- ment from the Department of Social and Family Minister of State at the Department of Com- Affairs, along with a payment from the rural munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. social scheme budget. Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. 36 and In addition to a participant’s primary farming 53 together. and fishing work and their participation in the The questions raised relate to recommend- rural social scheme, they may also undertake ations contained in the recent Joint Oireachtas other employment which may yield an average Committee Report on Volunteers and Volun- payment of up to \88.88 per week. teering in Ireland. Deputies will be aware from my reply to Ques- There are currently 1,461 participants on the tions Nos. 305 and 308 of 8 March 2005 that I scheme. There are 36 implementing bodies have introduced a package of measures to pro- throughout the country and of those 32 have com- vide immediate support for volunteering, includ- menced projects under the rural social scheme ing measures directed at promoting volunteering to date. in second and third level institutions. These measures will strengthen and promote volun- Sta´das na Gaeilge san Aontas Eorpach. teering as we develop a comprehensive long-term 39. D’fhiafraigh Mr. McGinley den Aire Gno´ - national policy in consultation with communities thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta cad e´ an dul and players in the sector. It is in this context that chun cinn ata´ de´anta go dtı´ seo maidir le sta´das the issues raised by the Deputies and other pro- oifigiu´ il a bhaint amach don Ghaeilge san Amtas posals raised in the joint Oireachtas committee Eorpach. [11425/05] report can best be addressed. In this context, I will discuss relevant matters, as they arise with Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht the Minister for Education and Science. Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Dı´rı´m aird an Teachta ar an bhfreagra a thug mo chomhleacaı´, an tAire Question No. 37 answered with Question Gno´ thaı´ Eachtracha, do Cheist Uimh. 10827/05 ar No. 24. an Mha´irt seo caite, 12 Aibrea´n 2005. Mar a thug me´ le fios sa Teach seo cheana, nı´ Rural Social Scheme. bheadh se´ cuı´ domsa tagairt phoiblı´ a dhe´anamh 38. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for maidir le sonraı´ na gcainteanna a leanann fo´ s Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the lena´r bpa´irtne´irı´ agus leis na Institiu´ idı´ san AE benefits to a person who avails of the rural social sula dtagann siad chun crı´che. 1119 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1120

Youth Services. ensure that no delays occur in releasing funds to voluntary organisations to whom grants have 40. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Com- been committed by my Department. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the range of I am not aware of any major difficulty in this youth projects funded under the community area. However, if the Deputy has any details in based youth initiative strand of the local develop- relation to any specific applications, I would be ment social inclusion programme; the number of glad to have the matter examined. such projects funded in 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11466/05] Electricity Supply. Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 43. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Com- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuıv): I am informed that in ´ munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the action 2004, 1,673 initiatives were supported under the he is taking to roll out three-phase electricity; and community based youth initiatives sub-measure if he will make a statement on the matter. of the local development social inclusion prog- [8071/05] ramme. I understand that these initiatives covered a wide range of activities under the fol- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht lowing broad categories: 174 projects providing Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The availability of early childhood education, learning and develop- three-phase electricity supply is a matter for the mental opportunities; 541 projects aimed at electricity sector and not one in which I have a preventing early school leaving; 132 projects function. addressing the needs of early school leavers; 87 However, my Department administers the farm projects supporting access to further and third electrification grant scheme, which subsidises the level education; 463 projects promoting develop- installation of electricity supply to farms located mental youth work; 161 research, information in disadvantaged areas, which are without supply and dissemination initiatives; and 115 training or where supply is inadequate to facilitate their initiatives for trainers. development and modernisation. Both single- phase and three-phase installations are eligible U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. for assistance under the scheme. 41. D’fhiafraigh Mr. Sargent den Aire Gno´ thaı´ Financial assistance for the conversion to three-phase electricity is provided also under the Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an aontaı´onn se´ ´ liom gur cheart na ciorruithe i mbuise´ad U´ dara´s CLAR programme which is operated by my na Gaeltachta a chealu´ chun nı´os mo´ tacaı´ochta Department. The objective of the programme is to address depopulation as well as decline and a chur ar fa´il do na ceantair Ghaeltachta. ´ [11426/05] lack of services in rural areas. CLAR funds the cost of the customer contribution to the ESB for Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht conversion from single-phase to three-phase elec- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Ta´ sola´thar iomla´nde tricity for small businesses and enterprises in \34.33 million curtha ar fa´il d’U´ dara´s na Gael- CLA´ R areas with no more than ten employees. tachta don bhliain 2005. Is me´adu´ 3.4% e´ seo ar The maximum CLA´ R funding is \15,000. The an tsuim a cuireadh ar fa´il i 2004. Ag cur san a´ire- businesses must have been previously in receipt amh an fa´ltas a gheofar o´ fhoinsı´ eile, mar sham- of assistance — financial or mentoring, but not pla, ioncam o´ fhoirgnimh ar cı´os agus o´ sheirbhı´sı´, earlier than 1 October 1997 — from the county maraon le teacht isteach o´ dhı´ol so´ cmhainnı´, enterprise board, U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta or aisı´oc deontas agus fa´ltais eile, ta´ me´ sa´sta go LEADER group. mbeidh se´ ar chumas an U´ dara´is a chuid spri- ocanna forbartha i leith na Gaeltachta a bhaint Question No. 44 answered with Question amach. No. 6. Meabhraı´m don Teachta freisin go bhfuil sola´- thar de \23.6 million vo´ ta´ilte do mo Roinnse i Question No. 45 answered with Question 2005 le caitheamh ar sce´imeanna tacaı´ochta e´ags- No. 23. u´ la sa Ghaeltacht, ina measc sce´imeanna tithı´ochta, feabhsu´ cha´in, cultu´ rtha agus so´ isialta, Community Development. gan tra´cht ar \15.8 million ata´ ar fa´il do na 46. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Com- hoilea´in, a bhfuil an mho´ rchuid da´ ndaonra sa munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on Ghaeltacht. the recent Teagasc report undertaken with assist- ance from U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta, Galway Rural Departmental Funding. Development Company, Galway County Council 42. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Com- and the partnership group, Cumas, on five rural munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if delays on communities in County Galway. [11431/05] promised funding from his Department to non- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht governmental organisations are occurring; and if Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuıv): I launched the report of so, the reason therefor. [11451/05] ´ the Teagasc study on 4 April. The aims of the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht study, which examined five disparate rural com- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Every effort is made to munities in County Galway, were to identify 1121 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1122 different types of rural area and different house- Anuas ar sin, ba mhaith liom a ra´, mar ata´ a hold types, to examine how areas and households fhios ag an Teachta go rı´-mhaith, go bhfuil me´adu´ adjust to change and how different policies and ar na mea´in Gaeilge le blianta beaga anuas, gan service delivery agencies support or hinder tra´cht ar mic le´inn, srl., a bhaineann agus a bhain- adjustment. I welcome the publication of the fidh u´ sa´id rialta as na ca´ipe´isı´ seo. Nı´ fı´or a ra´ study and believe it will play a role in informing agus nı´ glacaim leis gur beag an tairbhe don rural development policy in the future. Studies Ghaeilge agus do lucht labhartha agus u´ sa´ide na such as this are useful in providing a research- teangan ca´ipe´isı´ da´ leithead a bheith ar fa´il i nGa- based analysis of issues relevant to rural policy eilge. Is a mhalairt ar fad de thuairim a bheadh development. The study is particularly relevant at agam mar go dtugann siad deis don teanga te´ar- this time as we prepare for the 2007 to 2013 round maı´ocht nua a chruthu´ agus cruthaı´onn se´ freisin of EU structural funding. gur fe´idir leis an teanga maireachta´il mar theanga beo san saol teicneolaı´ochta, cumarsa´ide seo. RAPID Programme. Mar fhocal scoir, nı´ miste dom a chur i gcu- imhne don Teachta go bhfuil sta´da´s mar theanga 47. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- oifigiu´ il agus oibre san AE a´ lorg don Ghaeilge munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he intends ag an Rialtas — agus ag an bhfreasu´ ra fe´in — to improve funding to the various areas originally faoi la´thair, rud a chiallo´ idh go mbeidh nı´os mo envisaged under the RAPID programme; and if ca´ipe´isı´ na´ riamh a´ n-aistriu´ go Gaeilge ag he will make a statement on the matter. leibhe´al na hEorpa. [11393/05] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Proposed Legislation. Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The position is gener- 49. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for Com- ally as set out in my reply to Question No. 280 munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason on 22 February 2005. Since giving that reply, \1.5 he cannot give a definitive date for the publi- million has transferred from the Department of cation of the draft charities legislation; if his Health and Children to co-fund the development attention has been drawn to the difficulties which of playgrounds. Accordingly, the amount of fund- the ongoing delay in this respect is having for the ing to support small-scale proposals in RAPID entire charities sector; and if he will make a state- areas in 2005 has increased from \6 million to ment on the matter. [11379/05] \7.5 million. Minister of State at the Department of Com- Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. Ahern): As I have informed the House on a 48. D’fhiafraigh Mr. M. Higgins den Aire Gno´ - number of occasions, reform of the law relating thaı´ Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an aon- to charities will be brought forward in accordance taı´onn se´ gur beag an tairbhe do chaomhnu´ agus with the commitment in An Agreed Programme forbairt na Gaeilge iachall a bheith ar Ranna Sta´it for Government. Given that the charities sector agus ar Chomhlachtaı´ Sta´it ca´ipe´isı´ agus tuarasca´- has never been regulated in this country since the lacha gur beag duine a le´ann an leagan Be´arla a foundation of the State, moves towards regu- aistriu´ go Gaeilge; agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas lation of the sector have only recently begun to ina leith. [11387/05] be taken following the establishment of my Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Department in June 2002, and the draft legis- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I dtosach ba´ire, ba lation will be very substantial in size, as it will mhaith liom a mhiniu´ don Teachta gurb e´ an involve statute law revision and restatement in t-aon dualgas reachtu´ il ata´ ar chomhlachtaı´ poiblı´ addition to the new legislative provisions to regu- faoi la´thair maidir le haistriu´ ca´ipe´isı´ go Gaeilge late the charities sector, the Deputy’s comments na´ an dualgas a thiteann orthu faoi Alt 10 d’Acht regarding both an ongoing delay and resultant na dTeangacha Oifigiu´ la 2003. difficulties for the charities sector are not Faoi Alt 10, ta´ dualgas ar chomhlachtaı´ poiblı´ accepted. cionroinnt an-teoranta d’eochair ca´ipe´isı´ a aistriu´ , We have a unique opportunity to put in place mar shampla, tuarasca´lacha bliantu´ la agus a modern statutory framework for charities. The ca´ipe´isı´ a leagann amach tograı´ beartais poiblı´ ar legislation under preparation in my Department no´ spa´ipe´ir uaine no´ ba´n. Is eochair ca´ipe´isı´ iad will be designed to meet the commitment in An seo ina bhfuil comhlachtaı´ poiblı´ freagrach don Agreed Programme for Government, the public gna´th-phobal, da´ gcustaime´irı´, agus du´ inne mar good, and the needs of the sector. While, as I bhaill den Oireachtas maidir le comhlı´onadh a recently informed the House, it would not be ndualgas phoiblı´. possible at this stage for me to predict with cer- Ta´ dha´ theanga oifigiu´ il sa tı´r seo agus feictear tainty that the best estimate, which I gave last domsa — go deimhin, bhı´ gach e´inne sa Teach year, of end 2005 for publication of the draft Bill seo ar aon intinn faoi seo nuair a bhı´ an tAcht can be met, I can assure the Deputy that work on seo a´ phle´ againn mar Bhille — go bhfuil an ceart preparation of the draft legislation is proceeding ag an saora´nach ca´ipe´isı´ don chinea´l seo a bheith as speedily as possible and that it continues to be ar fa´il sa da´ theanga oifigiu´ il. given high priority within my Department. 1123 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1124

Water and Sewerage Schemes. and application form to the group in question should it wish to apply under this year’s scheme. 50. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his Cola´istı´ Samhraidh. views on the need for a scheme to deliver cheaper group water scheme projects in non-CLA´ R but 52. D’fhiafraigh Mr. O’Shea den Aire Gno´ thaı´ rural areas; and if he will make a statement on Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta an raibh cainte- the matter. [11409/05] anna aige leis an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´- ochta ar conas is fe´idir lı´on na bpa´istı´ a fhreasta- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht laı´onn ar na Cola´istı´ samhraidh a mhe´adu´ go mo´ r; Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Policy on the imple- agus an nde´anfaidh se´ ra´iteas ina leith. mentation of group water schemes is primarily a [11376/05] matter for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and any pro- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht posal by me to introduce a scheme on the lines Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Bı´onn mo Roinnse i referred to by the Deputy would, of course, dteagmha´il leis an Roinn Oideachais agus Eolaı´- require the agreement of that Minister. As Mini- ochta go minic faoi na Cola´istı´ Gaeilge ster for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Samhraidh sa Ghaeltacht agus ta´ me´ cinnte go I recognise the success of the CLA´ R top-up leanfar leis an gcomhoibriu´ sin amach anseo. Mar measure in facilitating the provision of water sup- Aire a bhfuil cu´ ram air i leith na Gaeltachta, ply to households in the most disadvantaged rural de´anfaidh me´ an me´id is fe´idir liom chun cabhru´ areas. Last year, I introduced a similar measure leis na Cola´istı´ a bheith nı´os e´ifeachtaı´. Mar for Gaeltacht areas. I am considering the need for shampla, cheana fe´in i mbliana: ta´ an deontas a a comparable measure for other rural areas of ı´ocann mo Roinn faoi Sce´im na bhFoghlaimeoirı´ low population density. Gaeilge me´adaithe o´ \8go\9 in aghaidh an lae, rud a chabhro´ idh chun an praghas a thiteann ar Security of the Elderly. thuismitheoirı´ a choimea´d chomh hı´seal agus is ´ ´ ´ 51. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for feidir; don chead uair riamh, ıocfaidh mo Roinn Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the an deontas iomla´n faoin Sce´im do thre´imhse an position regarding the scheme of community sup- chu´ rsa i gca´s foghlaimeoirı´ Gaeilge a chuirtear ´ ´ port for older people and the funding available abhaile go luath; agus d’eirigh liom, le cunamh an tAire Comhshaoil, Oidhreachta agus Rialtais for same; and the funding which has been and will ´ be made available under this scheme for Bandon Aitiu´ il, saorchead isteach chuig La´ithreacha ´ ´ ´ community watch. [11282/05] Oidhreachta sa Ghaeltacht fein, no imeallach leı, a fha´il d’fhoghlaimeoirı´ Gaeilge a bheidh ag frea- Minister of State at the Department of Com- stal ar Chola´istı´ Gaeilge. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. Is do´ igh liom gur le´ir o´ na figiu´ rı´ (breis agus Ahern): The scheme of community support for 23,000 foghlaimeoir in aghaidh na bliana le bli- older people encourages and assists local support anta beaga anuas) go bhfuil na Cola´istı´ Gaeilge for older people by means of a community-based Samhraidh sa Ghaeltacht an-tarraingteach do grant scheme to improve the security of its older thuismitheoirı´ agus foghlaimeoirı´ araon. Ta´ me´ members. Funding under the scheme can be pro- cinnte go gcabhro´ idh na ce´imeanna ata´ glactha vided for: window locks, door locks and door agam le de´anaı´ chun deimhin a dhe´anamh de go chains designed to strengthen points of entry to leanfaidh an sce´al amhlaidh amach anseo. the dwelling; security lighting; smoke alarms; and for the once-off cost of installing socially moni- Question No. 53 answered with Question tored personal alarm systems. The maximum No. 36. individual grants available for these items are: \300 in respect of socially monitored alarms; \150 Question No. 54 answered with Question in respect of physical security equipment; \150 in No. 23. respect of security lighting; and \50 in respect of smoke alarms. The total funding available in the Departmental Funding. 2005 scheme of community support for older 55. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Ta´naiste and people is \2.8 million. Minister for Health and Children if she will work An application under the scheme of com- with the relevant Department in increasing fund- munity support for older people was received by ing to the National League of the Blind of Ireland my Department from Bandon Neighbourhood in 2005; and if she will give this group the Watch in September 2004. Unfortunately the maximum support. [11614/05] group did not furnish some supporting docu- mentation, necessary to process the application, Minister of State at the Department of Health which had been requested by my Department. and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act The time for receipt of this documentation has 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, now passed and the grant application has accord- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under ingly lapsed. However, I recently announced the the Act, the executive has the responsibility to 2005 scheme open for applications. I have asked manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered my officials to forward a copy of the guidelines on its behalf, health and personal services. This 1125 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1126 includes responsibility for the allocation of fund- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children ing to non-government organisations. Accord- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for ingly, my Department has requested the chief the Health Service Executive, which was estab- officer for the executive’s eastern regional area to lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the investigate the matter raised and to reply directly executive has the responsibility to manage and to the Deputy. deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and personal social services. This includes Health Services. responsibility for the provision of cancer services. Accordingly, my Department has requested the 56. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- chief officer of the south eastern area of the ster for Health and Children the extent to which executive to investigate the matters raised and she expects to be in a position to provide speech reply directly to the Deputy. therapy in the case of persons (details supplied) in County Kildare County Kildare. [11635/05] Hospital Staff. 79. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- 59. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children if an up to date ster for Health and Children when the radiation assessment will be arranged in the case of a per- oncologist promised in 2003 to Cork University son (details supplied) in County Kildare; and if Hospital to cater for patients in the HSE south she will make a statement on the matter. eastern area as an intermediate measure will be [11637/05] appointed. [11504/05] Minister of State at the Department of Health Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): I propose to (Ms Harney): As the Deputy is aware, the Health take Questions Nos. 56 and 79 together. Act 2004 provided for the Health Service Execu- The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health tive, which was established on 1 January 2005. Service Executive, which was established on 1 Under the Act, the executive has the responsi- January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has bility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be the responsibility to manage and deliver, or delivered on its behalf, health and personal social arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and services. This includes responsibility for the pro- personal services. This includes responsibility for vision of cancer services and the recruitment of the provision of speech and language therapy ser- consultant staff. Accordingly, my Department has vices. Accordingly, my Department has requested requested the chief officer of the executive’s the chief officer for the executive’s eastern southern area to investigate the matter raised and regional area to investigate the matter raised and reply directly to the Deputy. reply directly to the Deputy. Hospital Services. Health Service Allowances. 60. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- 57. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- ster for Health and Children the position regard- ster for Health and Children if and when the ing the provision of a designated oncology ward domiciliary care allowance will be awarded to a at Waterford Regional Hospital. [11505/05] person (details supplied) in County Kildare in Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children respect of their child; and if she will make a state- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for ment on the matter. [11502/05] the Health Service Executive, which was estab- Minister of State at the Department of Health lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act executive has the responsibility to manage and 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, which was established on 1 January 2005. Under health and personal social services. This includes the Act, the executive has the responsibility to responsibility for the provision of cancer services. manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered Accordingly, my Department has requested the on its behalf, health and personal social services. chief officer of the south eastern area of the This includes responsibility for payment of and executive to investigate the matters raised and to entitlement to domiciliary care allowance. reply directly to the Deputy. Accordingly, my Department has requested the chief officer for the executive’s eastern regional Hospice Care. area to investigate the matter raised and reply 61. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- directly to the Deputy. ster for Health and Children her proposals to respond to the first study of the Irish Hospice Health Services. Association which found that the two most 58. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- important requirements of terminal patients are ster for Health and Children if she will report on freedom from pain and being near loved ones. the significant dedicated transport arrangements [11506/05] for cancer patients in the HSE south eastern area Minister of State at the Department of Health that have been put in place. [11503/05] and Children (Mr. S. Power): The publication of 1127 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1128

[Mr. S. Power.] the Health Service Executive, which was estab- the report of the national advisory committee on lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the palliative care was approved by the Government executive has the responsibility to manage and and launched on 4 October 2001. The report deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, describes a comprehensive palliative care service health and personal social services. This includes and acts as a blueprint for its development over responsibility for services at Letterkenny General a five to seven year period. I wish to advise the Hospital. Accordingly, my Department has Deputy that my Department has provided fund- requested the chief officer for the executive’s ing to all the former health boards on a pro-rata north western area to investigate the matter basis to commence the development of palliative raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. care services in line with the recommendations in 64. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Ta´naiste and the report. Minister for Health and Children when extra As the Deputy will be aware, the Health Act beds will be provided for Letterkenny General 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, Hospital in order to help ease the pressure on the HSE, which was established on 1 January 2005. accident and emergency unit; and if she will make Under the Act, the executive has the responsi- a statement on the matter. [11509/05] bility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and personal social Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children services. This includes responsibility for the pro- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for vision of palliative care services. the Health Service Executive, which was estab- The report recommended that palliative care lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the needs assessment studies should be carried out in executive has the responsibility to manage and each health board area. Information gleaned deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, from these studies, which will include the views health and personal social services. This includes of stakeholders including patients and their car- responsibility for services at Letterkenny General ers, will inform the future development of palli- Hospital. Accordingly, my Department has ative care services at HSE level in consultation requested the chief officer for the executive’s with the consultative and development commit- north western area to investigate the matter tees which have been set up as recommended in raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. the report. I have identified the delivery of accident and emergency services as a priority area for atten- Hospital Services. tion. I have announced a ten-point action plan 62. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- regarding accident and emergency services which ster for Health and Children when the additional is being financed with \70 million current funding two linear accelerators for Cork University and \10 million capital funding. My Department Hospital will be fully operational; and if she will is liaising with the HSE to progress the imple- make a statement on the matter. [11507/05] mentation of the plan.

Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children Medical Cards. (Ms Harney): As the Deputy is aware, the Health Act 2004 provided for the Health Service Execu- 65. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- tive, which was established on 1 January 2005. ster for Health and Children if a medical card will Under the Act, the executive has the responsi- be offered to a person (details supplied) in bility to manage and deliver, or arrange to be County Kildare; and if she will make a statement delivered on its behalf, health and personal social on the matter. [11510/05] services. This includes responsibility for the pro- Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children vision of cancer services and timelines in relation (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for to the operation of additional radiation oncology the Health Service Executive, which was estab- capacity. Accordingly, my Department has lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the requested the chief officer of the executive’s executive has the responsibility to manage and southern area to investigate the matter raised and deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, to reply directly to the Deputy. health and personal social services. This includes 63. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Ta´naiste and responsibility for the assessment of applications Minister for Health and Children the number of for medical cards. Accordingly, my Department procedures which have been cancelled each week has requested the chief officer of the Health Ser- in Letterkenny General Hospital from 1 January vice Executive’s eastern regional area to investi- 2005 to date; the reasons therefor; if this is satis- gate the matter raised and to reply directly to factory for both patients with medical emerg- the Deputy. encies and for those in need of routine oper- ations; and if she will make a statement on the Hospital Staff. matter. [11508/05] 66. Mr. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the process involved in Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children deciding upon and appointing a hospital consult- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for ant; if she is satisfied that this slow system is 1129 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1130 appropriate at a time when there is a need rapidly Hospital Services. to expand the number of consultants to deliver 69. Mr. Naughten asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- the proposed consultant lead services; and her ster for Health and Children when a person proposals for reforming this system. [11539/05] (details supplied) in County Roscommon will be Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children called for a cataract operation; and if she will (Ms Harney): My Department no longer has a make a statement on the matter. [11542/05] role in the creation of consultant posts. Since the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children establishment of the Health Service Executive in (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for January 2005, hospitals and other health agencies the Health Service Executive which was estab- seeking consultant posts must apply directly to lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the the National Hospitals Office or Comhairle na executive has the responsibility to manage and nOspide´al for approval of the post and related deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, funding. Accordingly, my Department has asked health and personal social services. As the person the director of the National Hospitals Office to in question resides in County Roscommon, my investigate the matters raised by the Deputy and Department has requested the chief officer for to reply directly to him. the executive’s western area to investigate the 67. Mr. Bruton asked the Ta´naiste and Minister matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. for Health and Children if she has received an assessment of gaps in the availability of consult- Health Services. ant specialists in paediatric medicine; if her atten- 70. Mr. P. Breen asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- tion has been drawn to the fact that there is no ster for Health and Children the plans for Cao- paediatric immunologist here and that patients imhe House in Limerick; and if she will make a have to wait over six months to gain access to a statement on the matter. [11553/05] specialist from the UK; if her attention has further been drawn to the fact that there are only Minister of State at the Department of Health two paediatric gastro-entomologists; and her and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act plans to fill these gaps in paediatric medicine. 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, [11540/05] which was established on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the responsibility to Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for on its behalf, health and personal social services. the Health Service Executive, which was estab- This includes responsibility for the matter raised lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the by the Deputy. Accordingly, my Department has executive has the responsibility to manage and requested the chief officer for the Health Service deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Executive’s mid-western area to investigate the health and personal social services. This includes matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. the provision of paediatric services. Accordingly, my Department has requested the director of the Services for People with Disabilities. National Hospitals Office at the Health Service 71. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Ta´naiste and Executive to investigate the matter raised and to Minister for Health and Children if Irish sign lan- reply directly to the Deputy. guage will be given official status in legislation; and if she will make a statement on the Housing Aid for the Elderly. matter. [11563/05] 68. Mr. Neville asked the Ta´naiste and Minister Minister of State at the Department of Health for Health and Children when work will be com- and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): My Department pleted to a house under the special housing aid has no plans to introduce legislation regarding for the elderly for a person (details supplied) in sign language. County Limerick. [11541/05] Minister of State at the Department of Health Care of the Elderly. and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act 72. Mr. Kirk asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, for Health and Children if, in view of the increase which was established on 1 January 2005. Under in the number of older persons in the population, the Act, the executive has the responsibility to consideration will be given to the establishment manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered of a strategic planning group embracing a number on its behalf, health and personal social services. of Departments to plan for the changes; and if she This includes responsibility for the provision of will make a statement on the matter. [11576/05] the housing aid scheme for the elderly in Limerick, on behalf of the Department of the Minister of State at the Department of Health Environment, Heritage and Local Government. and Children (Mr. S. Power): As the Deputy will Accordingly, my Department has requested the be aware, it has been forecast that the percentage chief officer for the executive’s mid-western area of the population aged over 65 will increase to to investigate the matter raised and to reply between 18% and 21% by 2031. The Government directly to the Deputy. is aware that our population is ageing and it has 1131 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1132

[Mr. S. Power.] which was established on 1 January 2005. Under already addressed some of these issues in the the Act, the executive has the responsibility to health strategy, Quality and Fairness A Health manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered System for You, published in 2001. I can assure on its behalf, health and personal social services. the Deputy that this Government is committed to This includes responsibility for the provision of developing services for older people, both resi- health services. Accordingly, my Department has dential and community based, to meet the needs requested the chief officer for the executive’s of our growing older population. south eastern area to investigate the matter raised The Mercer report on the future financing of and to reply directly to the Deputy. long-term care in Ireland, which was com- missioned by the Department of Social and National Treatment Purchase Fund. Family Affairs, examined issues surrounding the 75. Mr. O’Shea asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- financing of long-term care. A working group ster for Health and Children if the national treat- chaired by the Department of the Taoiseach and ment purchase fund can be availed of in regard comprising senior officials from the Departments to mammograms and subsequent treatment when of Finance, Health and Children and Social and necessary; and if she will make a statement on the Family Affairs has been established following on matter. [11579/05] from the publication of the report. The objective of this group is to identify the Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children policy options for a financially sustainable system (Ms Harney): The primary purpose of the of long-term care, taking account of the Mercer national treatment purchase fund is to make report, the views of the consultation that was arrangements for the provision of hospital treat- undertaken on that report and the review of the ment to those waiting longest for admission to nursing home subvention scheme by Professor hospital particularly in relation to surgical Eamon O’Shea. This group has been requested specialities. to report to both the Ta´naiste and Minister for Any woman irrespective of her age or resi- Social and Family Affairs by mid-year 2005. Fol- dence who has concerns about breast cancer lowing this process, it is the intention that there should contact her GP who, where appropriate, will be discussions with relevant interest groups will refer her to the symptomatic services in her in relation to the proposals for the future financ- area. More than \60 million has been invested in ing of long-term care for older people. the development of symptomatic breast disease services since 2000. This investment has enabled Hospital Staff. the appointment of additional surgeons with an 73. Mr. Naughten asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- interest in breast disease, histopathologists and ster for Health and Children the number and radiologists to enhance the delivery of breast can- location of oncologists in the Health Service cer nationally. Executive Western Region; the contractual status With regard to breast screening, a screening of the staff in question; the plans she has to programme is available to women in the 50 to 64 review the levels of staffing; and if she will make age group in the eastern, north eastern, midland a statement on the matter. [11577/05] and part of the south eastern regions. The rollout of this programme to the remaining counties in Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children the country is a major priority in the development (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for of cancer services. The rollout requires significant the Health Service Executive, which was estab- capital and human resources including two static lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the clinical units, mobile screening units, multi-dis- executive has the responsibility to manage and ciplinary consultant teams and radiographers deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, together with technical and administrative health and personal social services. This includes support. responsibility for consultant staffing in the HSE A capital investment of \21 million has been western area. Accordingly, my Department has approved to construct and equip the two clinical requested the chief officer for the executive’s units and to provide for mobile units. The invest- western area to investigate the matters raised and ment will ensure that breast screening and follow to reply directly to the Deputy. up treatment, where appropriate, is available to all women in the target group throughout the Hospital Accommodation. country. 74. Mr. McGuinness asked the Ta´naiste and Pending the provision of the necessary facilities Minister for Health and Children if a long stay and staff, I do not believe that the national treat- bed will be provided at Castlecomer Hospital, ment purchase fund would be in a position to County Kilkenny for a person (details supplied) source providers who could provide a service in County Kilkenny; and if this case will be along the lines suggested by the Deputy. expedited. [11578/05] Hospital Services. Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act 76. Mr. Perry asked the Ta´naiste and Minister 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, for Health and Children if the Beaumont 1133 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1134

Hospital will call a person (details supplied) in and if she will make a statement on the County Sligo for treatment; and if she will make matter. [11638/05] a statement on the matter. [11580/05] Minister of State at the Department of Health Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): The Health Act (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for 2004 provided for the Health Service Executive, the Health Service Executive, which was estab- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the the Act the executive has the responsibility to executive has the responsibility to manage and manage and deliver, or arrange to be delivered deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, on its behalf, health and personal services. This health and personal social services. As the person includes responsibility for the provision of speech in question resides in County Sligo, my Depart- and language therapy services. Accordingly, my ment has requested the chief officer of the execu- Department has requested the chief officer for tive’s north western area to investigate the matter the executive’s eastern regional area to investi- raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. gate the matter raised and to reply directly to the Deputy. Medical Cards. 77. Mr. Durkan asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- Tax Code. ster for Health and Children when a medical card 81. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Finance will issue in the case of a person (details supplied) if the New Leaf Celbridge Mental Health Hous- in County Kildare; and if she will make a state- ing Association in Celbridge, County Kildare, ment on the matter. [11592/05] which has exempt charity status, will be afforded Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children full charity status to enable the project to pro- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for ceed; and if he will make a statement on the the health service executive, which was estab- matter. [11516/05] lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam executive has the responsibility to manage and advised by the Revenue Commissioners that the deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, Celbridge Mental Health Housing Association health and personal social services. This includes Limited has been granted charitable status. There responsibility for the assessment of applications is no separate concept of “full” charity status and for medical cards. Accordingly, my Department the status granted in this case allows for all the has requested the chief officer of the Health Ser- exemptions applicable to charities. A charitable vice Executive’s eastern regional area to investi- body is exempt from income tax, corporation tax, gate the matter raised and to reply directly to capital gains tax, deposit interest retention tax, the Deputy. capital acquisitions tax, stamp duty, probate tax and dividend withholding tax but not from VAT. Cancer Screening Programme. 78. Mr. Naughten asked the Ta´naiste and Mini- IMF-World Bank Meeting. ster for Health and Children if she will give 82. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Fin- approval to BreastCheck to advertise in the EU ance the items to be discussed at the upcoming Journal for the design of the Cork and Galway spring meeting of the IMF and World Bank; if facilities; and if she will make a statement on the he will be raising the proposals to use IMF gold matter. [11621/05] reserves to fund debt cancellation; and if he will Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children make a statement on the matter. [11532/05] (Ms Harney): My Department is at present con- Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): The items sidering proposed capital developments for the to be discussed at the spring meetings of the BreastCheck service at Cork and Galway in the International Monetary Fund Committee, IMFC, context of finalising the capital investment frame- and the development committee are essentially work, CIF, 2005-9. This process will be concluded decided by the chairs of those committees and in the near future. their members. It may also reflect the outcome of Design briefs in respect of both have now been the upcoming G7 discussions in Washington the completed. The advertisement for the appoint- week of 11 April 2005 where the issue of funding ment of a design team will be placed in the EU for development may be discussed. Ireland is not Journal, when the CIF has been agreed, in line a member of either committee. with overall funding resources available. However, the provisional agenda for the IMFC indicates the following will be considered: the Question No. 79 answered with Question global economy and financial markets; shaping of No. 56. the IMF’s strategic direction; and support for low- income members’ efforts towards poverty Health Services. reduction and strong sustainable growth, together 80. Mr. Wall asked the Ta´naiste and Minister with progress reports on a number of initiatives. for Health and Children the options available to Items on the provisional agenda for the develop- a person (details supplied) in County Kildare; ment committee includes the Global Monitoring 1135 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1136

[Mr. Cowen.] County Waterford; and if he will make a state- Report 2005, financing the development agenda ment on the matter. [11572/05] and voice and participation of developing and Minister of State at the Department of Finance transition countries. (Mr. Parlon): The Office of Public Works is at IMF members have not reached any agreement the final negotiation stage on the acquisition of a on the merits or otherwise of the various sugges- suitable site for the decentralisation programme tions made by NGOs and others relating to gold in Dungarvan and it is expected that this process reserves. It is probable that no formal proposal will be concluded at an early date. for the sale of gold held by the IMF will be put Tax Yield. forward and this subject is likely to continue in 84. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for Fin- discussion, especially as a number of states are ance the estimated tax take from domestic rental likely to oppose any such initiative. In relation to accommodation income in 2002, 2003 and 2004; debt issues, I refer to recent answers on this sub- and his estimate of the comparable tax take for ject to parliamentary question’s in the past week. the same years for Dublin city. [11574/05] Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Iam Site Acquisition. informed by the Revenue Commissioners that the latest relevant information currently available is 83. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Finance, based on income tax returns filed for the income further to Question No. 371 of 26 January 2005, tax years ending 5 April 2000, 5 April 2001 and if the OPW has yet acquired a site for the new the short tax year ending 31 December 2001. This office of Ordnance Survey Ireland in Dungarvan, is set out as follows:

Individuals and companies with rental income and estimated tax yield

Year ended 5th April or 31st Estimated Tax Yield December as specified

The Whole Country Dublin City Only

Individuals Companies Individuals Companies

\m \m \m \m 5/4/2000 137 80 51 51 5/4/2001 152 103 39 64 31/12/2001 140 117 32 74

The rental income could come from either private contact is established for tax purposes, which may tenants or business tenants. Data is not available be different to the city or county addresses of to distinguish between income from private rental other branches. accommodation and from other accommodation. It should be noted that, as PAYE taxpayers An estimated breakdown of the figures on a geo- were charged tax on their earnings in the period graphical basis is available on the basis of baili- from 6 April to 31 December 2001 and self- wick which means, in this case, the jurisdiction or employed taxpayers were assessed to tax for the boundaries within which Revenue sheriffs, county short “year” on 74% of the profits earned in a 12 registrars or their officers operate for the pur- month accounting period, the figures will not be poses of enforcement of tax debt. It equates geo- directly comparable with those of earlier years. graphically with counties while also providing separate breakdowns for city and county in the National Development Plan. case of County Dublin and County Cork. 85. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Fin- In considering the data it should be borne in ance the details of all capital spending on infra- mind that the allocation by city or county of structure under the NDP each year from 2000 to PAYE employees is somewhat misleading the end of 2004; and if he will make a statement because it has been the practice to associate each on the matter. [11601/05] employee with the city or county in which his or Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): Capital her employer is registered for PAYE purposes, infrastructure investment under the National regardless of the address of the actual workplace Development Plan 2000-2006 is primarily deliv- or of the individual’s home address. Self- ered through the Economic and Social Infrastruc- employed persons are associated on the tax ture Operational Programme, ESIOP. Total record with the address at which the business is spending to date under the ESIOP is on target, located, which may be in a different city or county and had exceeded \19 billion by the end of 2004, to the home address. Similarly, companies are which is approximately 107% of the forecast associated on the tax record with the county expenditure for the period 2000-04. The NDP’s address of the head office or branch with which ESIOP investment is delivering major improve- 1137 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1138 ments to the economic and social infrastructure sustainable energy, housing and health. The table throughout the country in the areas of roads, shows the spend under each priority of the public transport, environmental infrastructure, ESIOP for the period 2000-04.

2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Total

\ million \ million \ million \ million \ million \ million National Roads 611 911 1,093 1,221 1,352 5,188 Public Transport 456 490 524 585 496 2,551 Environmental Infrastructure 459 571 504 490 402 2,426 Sustainable Energy 4 5 9 13 14 45 Housing 848 1,326 1,615 1,531 1,457 6,777 Health > 294 > 374 > 504 > 510 > 503 > 2,185

Total 2,672 3,677 4,249 4,350 4,224 19,172 *Figures per ESIOP Monitoring Committee Reports.

The 2004 data is provisional and will be formally management invoked the inability to pay clause reported to the ESIOP monitoring committee provided for in Sustaining Progress. meeting at the end of April 2005. The table shows The key challenge for the company is to return the expenditure from all funding sources, to long-term financial stability. In this regard, An Exchequer and non-Exchequer. Post unions and management are involved in In addition to the above spending on national intensive negotiations with the assistance of the infrastructure, over the period 2000-04, some \2.4 State’s industrial relations machinery in a bid to billion has been spent under the local infrastruc- agree a recovery plan that will put the company ture priority of the two regional operational prog- on a sound footing. The question of Sustaining rammes. This spend relates to non-national roads Progress related payments is being addressed in and local environmental infrastructure. the Labour Relations Commission-brokered pro- cess. An agreement on a viable recovery plan will Tax Code. enable An Post to deliver quality services to our citizens, while at the same time providing sus- 86. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Finance, tainable well-paid employment for its staff. further to Question No. 181 of 22 March 2005, his views on the introduction of an aviation fuel tax Post Office Network. in the EU for the purposes of reducing emissions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. 88. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Communi- cations, Marine and Natural Resources the plans [11619/05] he has to provide further services to rural post Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): I have offices. [11549/05] nothing to add to my reply of 22 March 2005 at Minister for Communications, Marine and this stage. Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The pri- mary responsibility for the development of the Industrial Relations. post office network remains with An Post and 87. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for while the Government will support the network Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in any way it can and has demonstrated its com- if his attention has been drawn to the fact that mitment in a tangible fashion with a \12.7 million An Post employees have only received the first capital injection in 2003, the way forward is for phase of the Sustaining Progress agreement and stakeholders to continue to work with An Post in have not received any cost of living increase since enhancing existing services and building on exist- 1 February 2003, while other State and semi-State ing strengths to develop new product offerings. employees have received increases and applicable On foot of substantial investment in computeris- benchmarking. [11534/05] ation, a significant amount of extra business has already been obtained for the network in terms Minister for Communications, Marine and of banking and utility business. Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): I am aware The post office also enjoys a strong relationship that An Post employees have not received with sections of the population that are currently increases provided for under the Sustaining Pro- unbanked, including many social welfare clients. gress agreement from November 2003 to date. An With the rollout of e-Government services, the Post is a commercial State body and the question post office is ideally placed to capitalise on of pay increases in the company is one in which I opportunities arising in this space, especially in have no function. An Post has a remit to be finan- the area of e-Payments. cially viable and, following significant losses that The post office network has significant amounted to \43 million in 2003 alone, An Post strengths, including an unrivalled network and 1139 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1140

[Mr. N. Dempsey.] Economic partnership agreements are first and high brand name recognition. Clearly, arising foremost instruments for development that will from these strengths, there are continuing oppor- foster the smooth and gradual integration of ACP tunities for the company to seek additional states into the world economy, with due regard private and Government business. for their own political choices and their own development priorities, thereby promoting their Telecommunications Services. sustainable development and contributing to pov- erty eradication in the ACP countries. They com- 89. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for bine trade and wider development issues in a uni- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources fied framework, while taking account of the if his attention has been drawn to the unavail- specific economic, social and environmental cir- ability of broadband in most parts of Dublin cumstances of each regional group and its com- north west; and the action he is taking to ensure ponent states. that this critical infrastructure is provided in the As trade is a European Community com- area. [11606/05] petence, it is the European Commission which Minister for Communications, Marine and conducts the negotiations on the EPAs between Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): I under- the EU and six regional groupings of ACP states stand that the telephone exchanges serving most on behalf of the member states. The Commission parts of the Dublin north west area have been provides the Council with regular updates on the enabled for the provision of DSL broadband and progress of the negotiations. a number of service providers are marketing DSL Ireland is satisfied that the Commission is dis- in the area, subject to line survey. charging its mandate in accordance with the pro- While the principal broadband technology in visions of the Cotonou Agreement and in a man- use in Ireland is digital subscriber line, DSL, ner which is sensitive to the particular concerns which is also the situation in most European of the ACP states. We are actively following the countries, there are technical limitations to the developments in the EPA negotiations process delivery of broadband along telephone lines. DSL and will continue to do so. is always marketed subject to availability and line quality, and if a particular telephone line cannot Asylum Applications. carry DSL, other technologies must be con- 91. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for For- sidered, such as wireless, cable modem or fibre- eign Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the based broadband. fact that a person (details supplied) is now resi- My Department’s website, www.broadband. dent in south Florida, USA, expecting asylum; gov.ie, gives full details of the service providers and if he will raise this matter with the US auth- offering broadband in the Dublin north west orities and the UN. [11622/05] area, including DSL, wireless and satellite service Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): I providers. The website also gives comparative am aware of media reports that Mr. Luis Posada details of prices and service levels on offer. Carriles has recently entered the United States The provision of telecommunications services, and that a lawyer acting on his behalf has stated including broadband, is a matter for the private that he is seeking asylum there. Such an asylum sector companies operating in a fully liberalised application is a matter for the US authorities, and market. Recent press announcements by some of it would not be appropriate for me to raise the the major service providers indicate a consider- matter with either these authorities or with the able increase in availability of broadband gener- United Nations. ally. I expect these trends to continue. Global Action Week. Economic Partnership Agreements. 92. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Foreign 90. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for For- Affairs his views on correspondence (details eign Affairs if he will work with his EU col- supplied); his proposals to deal with the matter; leagues to achieve changes to the European Com- the action or representations made in regard to mission’s proposals for economic partnership global week by his Department or the contacts agreements to reduce the negative impact of made with the stated non-governmental organis- EPAs upon developing countries; and if he will ations in relation to their proposals in regard to make a statement on the matter. [11531/05] the matter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11644/05] Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): The economic partner- Minister of State at the Department of Foreign ship agreements, EPAs, which are to enter into Affairs (Mr. C. Lenihan): The letter enclosed force by 1 January 2008, are an integral element with the Deputy’s parliamentary question refers of the legally-binding Cotonou Agreement to global action week organised by Trade Justice between the African, Caribbean and Pacific, Ireland and the need to address trade issues from ACP, states and the European Union. the perspective of developing countries. I support 1141 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1142 this and similar initiatives in whatever way date for receipt of applications was 4 February possible. 2005. All applications received before the dead- Ireland strongly believes that developing coun- line, including one from the organisation in ques- tries, and especially least developed countries, tion, are currently being evaluated against the must be provided with the means to take advan- programme’s assessment criteria, which are out- tage of the opportunities provided by the global lined in the guidelines, terms and conditions of trading system. The Government is committed to the programme. I intend to announce the grant the successful conclusion of the current WTO allocations for the programme as soon as possible negotiations, known as the Doha development after the assessment process has been completed. agenda. Since the launch of the WTO Doha Round of negotiations, Ireland along with our Tourism Industry. partners in the European Union has sought to 94. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for ensure that the round should promote develop- Arts, Sport and Tourism the position regarding ment objectives. We will continue to take this Dublin Tourism; and if he will take steps to approach to the WTO Hong Kong ministerial ensure its continuation as it is presently struc- meeting next December. tured. [11613/05] The EU has a number of preferential trade relationships with least developed countries. The 95. Mr. Quinn asked the Minister for Arts, most important is in the framework of the ACP- Sport and Tourism if his attention has been EU Cotonou Agreement with 77 countries drawn to the fact that Fa´ilte Ireland proposes to mainly from Sub-Saharan Africa, but also the dismantle Dublin Tourism following a consultants smaller Caribbean and Pacific states. This pro- report undertaken by PWC; if the promotion of vides access to EU markets on preferential terms tourism for the regions can best be done in a cen- for exports from these countries. Another tralised manner; his views on whether the Dublin important trade link is the 2001 Everything but region requires separate tourism promotion unit; Arms initiative which grants least developed the steps he proposes to take to enable Dublin countries very wide access to EU markets with Tourism to continue in its present form; and if he transitional arrangements applying in the case of will make a statement on the matter. [11643/05] bananas, rice and sugar. The ACP-EU Cotonou Agreement and the Everything but Arms initiat- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ive results in Europe being the main global O’Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. importer of exports from least developed 94 and 95 together. countries. There has been a major reform of Irish tourism I wish to reiterate that the Government structures in recent years with the setting up of remains strongly committed to achieving the UN Tourism Ireland and Fa´ilte Ireland. Reform of target for expenditure on ODA. The issue of how the function, role and operational structure of best to meet the target and in what timeframe is regional tourism is the third and final leg of that under ongoing review. Furthermore, I feel it is reform process. important to point out that Ireland, unlike many As the Deputies are aware, I have no direct donors, has successfully focused its aid prog- responsibility in relation to the most appropriate ramme on the needs of the poorest people in the regional structures for the discharge of Fa´ilte poorest countries. Ireland is in fact one of only Ireland’s functions and the relationships and six countries to have surpassed the UN target of arrangements that should apply at regional level. 0.15% of GNP in official development assistance This is effectively a day to day matter for Fa´ilte to least developed countries. Ireland itself. I am in a position to inform the House however Sports Capital Programme. that, in line with the tourism action plan set out in the report of the tourism policy review group, 93. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Arts, Fa´ilte Ireland has been deliberating on this issue. Sport and Tourism if a grant application (details Last year, it commissioned PriceWaterhouse- supplied) in County Roscommon will be Coopers, PWC, to conduct a major consultancy approved; and if he will make a statement on the study of regional tourism structures as the auth- matter. [11566/05] ority seeks to determine how best to carry out its Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. new development mandate countrywide. O’Donoghue): The national lottery-funded sports I received a letter yesterday from the chairman capital programme, which is administered by my of Fa´ilte Ireland enclosing a copy of the Price- Department, allocates funding to sporting and WaterhouseCoopers consultancy report and indi- community organisations at local, regional and cating that the authority endorsed the recom- national level throughout the country. The prog- mendations in the report at its meeting on ramme is advertised on an annual basis. Thursday, 7 April. I have also been advised that Applications for funding under the 2005 prog- as far as the Dublin region is concerned, the auth- ramme were invited through advertisements in ority has decided that there will be a further short the press on 5 and 6 December last. The closing engagement with the relevant parties in order to 1143 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1144

[Mr. O’Donoghue.] Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- satisfy the Dublin region that the mechanisms of ment (Mr. Martin): I propose to take Questions consultation are complete. This process will be Nos. 96, 97 and 102 together. facilitated by a small independent group chaired I am aware of the correspondence from the by Mr. John Travers. Mid-West Regional Authority and, earlier this It has been evident for some time that Irish year, agreed to meet its representatives at a tourism faces a number of challenges to secure mutually convenient time to discuss their con- and sustain its past success. I outlined to the cerns about the future of Shannon Development. House recently the steps being taken to achieve While it has not proved possible to hold this as wide as possible a distribution of visitor meeting in the intervening period, there is no numbers across the different regions with an question of its having been cancelled and conse- associated spread of tourism revenue and of my quently no need to rearrange it. In the meantime concern, at a time of overall national tourism Shannon Development has submitted a strategy growth, that the issue of regional spread should document outlining its vision of the future role of be proactively and energetically addressed. the company. My Department is currently I have been informed by Fa´ilte Ireland that the engaged in a detailed examination of these PWC report highlights the need for a much wider proposals. brief for regional tourism, playing a strategic rather than administrative role and inputting into Work Permits. national policy. It recommends a greatly 98. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for increased emphasis on targeted marketing, prod- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will uct development and enterprise support. It sug- report on the existing provisions in relation to gests establishing an integrated linkage between granting permission to work to the spouses of regional tourism strategy and national policy and persons with entitlement to work here, in relation exploiting synergies to leverage increased to giving long-term status to non-national persons resources. who have worked a number of years here and I will, over the coming weeks, consider fully the who seek to commit to a permanent career here, policy implications of the authority’s recommend- and in relation to the balance between persons ations on foot of the report, the outcome of the working here on working permits versus working further consultation process in relation to the visas; and the way in which he plans to develop concerns expressed about the future role of a policy in the coming years in relation to these Dublin Tourism and the views of the industry. issues. [11528/05] Basically, I want to ensure that we have the most efficient and effective regional structures to ser- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- vice the needs of the visitor and the needs of the ment (Mr. Martin): The spouse of a national from industry. At present, we have somewhat frag- outside the European Economic Area, EEA, is mented structures to do that and it is not always eligible for an employment permit in the State. clear that they represent the most effective use of In accordance with normal practice, the would-be energy and resources. employer must make an application and demon- strate that the position cannot be filled from Regional Authorities. within the EEA. This entails advertising the posi- tion with FA´ S for a period of one month. 96. Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Recently, applications are only granted in respect Enterprise, Trade and Employment if correspon- of highly skilled and highly paid employment. dence (details supplied) from the Mid-West Special provisions were introduced in May Regional Authority has been brought to his 2004 that gave greater ease of access to employ- attention; if he will meet the group involved as ment to the spouses of those under the working matter of urgency and prior to making any visa-working authorisation scheme, the intra- decision on the future of the organisation; and if company transfer concessions and spouses of he will make a statement on the matter. those who had a work permit as a researcher, an [11511/05] academic or a medical health and social care pro- fessionals. In such cases, the employer in question 97. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for ´ Enterprise, Trade and Employment if a meeting is not required to advertise the position with FAS will be rearranged with the Mid-West Regional in advance of making a work permit application Authority in relation to the future of the Shannon and the payment of the work permit application Development Company; and if he will make a fee is waived in this case. Such positions may be in categories that would generally be considered statement on the matter. [11527/05] ineligible for work permits. 102. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Naturalisation and residency are the responsi- Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will bility of the Minister for Justice, Equality and meet a delegation from the Mid-West Regional Law Reform. Authority as requested on 15 December 2004. There are more than 25,000 persons working in [11609/05] Ireland under valid work permits and there could 1145 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1146 be as many as 10,000 persons working under the manufacturing of chargers for mobile phones, working visa-work authorisation scheme. Irish video cameras, laptops and other such equip- economic migration policy is based on the skill ment; if there is any legislation which empowers needs of the economy and future policy in this him or the EU to force industry to make chargers area will be predicated on Ireland’s economic common to many different devices; if so, if he will needs. set it out; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11608/05] Grocery Industry. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- 99. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for ment (Mr. Martin): I understand there is no spec- Enterprise, Trade and Employment the status of ific EU directive or national regulations applic- the groceries order; and if he will make a state- able to chargers for electrical equipment. ment on the matter. [11564/05] However, provisions of the low voltage directive, the electromagnetic compatibility directive, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- general product safety directive and the National ment (Mr. Martin): The Restrictive Practices Standards Authority of Ireland (section 28) (Groceries) Order was designed to regulate the (Electrical Plugs, Plug Similar Devices and Sock- grocery sector in Ireland in 1987. The order con- ets for Domestic Use) Regulations 1997, apply to tains a number of provisions aimed at curbing the manufacture of chargers. These directives and anti-competitive practices such as the selling of regulations are primarily concerned with the safe grocery goods at “below net invoice price”, “hello operation of these devices. money” and boycotting. The order covers all I am not aware of any regulations, national or grocery goods as well as intoxicating liquor and otherwise, which would force manufacturers to other household goods ordinarily sold in grocery produce chargers suitable for use with multiple shops. It does not cover fresh fruit, fresh veg- electrical devices. etables, fresh and frozen meat, and fish. Enforce- ment of the order is the responsibility of the Question No. 102 answered with Question Director of Consumer Affairs. No. 96. I recently received the report of the consumer strategy group which has made recommendations Employment Support Services. on a wide range of consumer issues including the groceries order. I am discussing the group’s find- 103. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for ings with my Government colleagues and Enterprise, Trade and Employment the position arrangements will be made to publish the report regarding Irish companies operating in the Flor- as soon as possible. ida area of the USA; the way in which Irish citi- Once the report is published, I intend to con- zens can contact them when in the US; and if he sult with all interested parties in regard to the will make a statement on the matter. [11610/05] groceries order. I am also aware of the findings Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small ment (Mr. Martin): It is not possible to comment Business in its recent report on the impact of the on the position of Irish companies operating in grocery multiples. I will take the views of all the Florida area. However, it is possible that a interested parties into consideration before decid- number of Enterprise Ireland’s clients are ing how to proceed in the matter. operating in the area. Individuals wishing to 100. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for make contact with such clients should route their Enterprise, Trade and Employment when the queries through Enterprise Ireland in Dublin, at consumer strategy group report will be forth- Enterprise Ireland, Glasnevin, Dublin 9 or by coming; and if he will make a statement on the telephoning 01 808 2000. Alternatively, Irish busi- matter. [11565/05] ness representative organisations such as the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland, the Irish Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- Exporters Association, IBEC, ISME etc. may ment (Mr. Martin): The consumer strategy group also be able to provide some limited contacts. presented its final report to me on 2 March 2005. Job Losses. I am considering the report and its recommend- ations in conjunction with my colleagues in 104. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for Government. I expect to publish the report and Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number will announce my proposals in regard to pro- of jobs lost in 2004 and 2005 on the northside of gressing the recommendations in the coming Dublin; and the number of jobs created or major weeks. investments made on the northside of Dublin. [11611/05] EU Directives. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- 101. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for ment (Mr. Martin): The twin issues of job Enterprise, Trade and Employment the regu- creation and investment by companies supported lations, EU or otherwise, which relate to the by the enterprise development agencies are day 1147 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1148

[Mr. Martin.] Motor Fuels. to day matters for the relevant agencies, and not 105. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for matters with which I am directly involved. Enterprise, Trade and Employment the reason Data on jobs lost and created in 2005 is not yet diesel fuel oil prices at filling stations have available with regard to companies supported by exceeded petrol prices; if there is some particular IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland or the 35 city and county enterprise boards. or specific reason for this; and if he will make a IDA report that in 2004 there were 251 IDA statement on the matter. [11636/05] supported companies employing 23,420 perma- Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- nent employees in north County Dublin, includ- ment (Mr. Martin): Since the beginning of the ing north city and county, compared with 256 year there have been significant increases in both IDA supported companies employing 23,284 the wholesale and retail price of petrol and diesel people in 2003. There were 2,596 job losses in products, caused by a combination of strong IDA supported companies in the area in 2004. demand, tight capacities, political uncertainty and Enterprise Ireland report on the Dublin region some market speculation. Ireland has no control as a whole. In 2004 there were 46,991 people over world oil prices. I am not aware of any part- employed full time in 2,038 Enterprise Ireland icular reason the price of diesel oil may have assisted companies in the Dublin region, and exceeded the price of petrol, neither do I have 5,406 employed part time. The number of jobs any detailed information on the comparative lost in the Dublin region in Enterprise Ireland retail prices of the two fuels. supported companies in 2004 was 6,048, and the The policy of the Government on oil products number of jobs gained 3,627, giving a net generally is to promote competition and con- decrease of 2,221. sumer choice. There is no price control on these With regard to the county and city enterprise products and in common with most other goods boards the Dublin City Enterprise Board had net and services price differences are an ongoing fea- job losses of 17 in 2004 and Fingal County ture of the market economy. It is a matter for Enterprise Board had a net gain of 94.5 jobs. retailers to explain price differences where they With regard to major investments on the north- occur and my Department encourages consumers side of Dublin, IDA Ireland report that in 2004 to raise price concerns directly with retailers. Lucent Technologies, through Bell Labs, invested While fuel may not be subject to price control, \69 million to create a global headquarters for research into telecommunications and supply the Retail Price (Diesel and Petrol) Display chain technologies, and also an academic centre Order 1997, which is enforced by the Office of the for telecommunications value chain driven Director of Consumer Affairs, requires persons research. The new research centre is located in selling diesel and petrol products to specify the Lucent’s Blanchardstown facility. A centre for price per litre being charged and to display their telecommunications value-chain-driven research, prices in a clear and prominent manner. The CTVR, headquartered at Trinity College, is also order enables consumers to readily compare planned. prices and purchase their fuel on the basis of an In 2004 IBM Corporation announced a \22 informed choice. million investment to significantly develop its Irish R&D software facility, IBM Dublin Social Welfare Appeals. Software Laboratory, in Santry, Dublin. 106. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social Also in 2004 Kellogg’s announced plans to and Family Affairs if he will review his refusal of establish an operations centre in Swords, County basic supplementary welfare allowance on habit- Dublin to service its growing European market. ual residency grounds in the case of a person The project will provide employment for up to 80 (details supplied) in County Dublin; and if he will people in functions such as marketing, sales, sup- make a statement on the matter. [11591/05] ply chain management, finance, treasury and human resources. In addition NYMEX, the larg- Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. est commodity exchange in the world, opened a Brennan): The supplementary welfare allowance new trading floor in Dublin’s Financial Services scheme is administered on my behalf by the com- Centre. munity welfare division of the Health Service As part of its strategy to support job creation Executive. The executive has advised that the Enterprise Ireland has approved over \27 million person concerned applied for supplementary wel- in 2004, and to date in 2005 \4.3 million in fund- fare allowance after she left her direct provision ing for its client companies in the Dublin region accommodation at the end of December 2004. in support their plans for innovation and new Her application was refused on the statutory product development. grounds that she was not habitually resident in Since 2004 to date Enterprise Ireland has the State. She has been unsuccessful in appealing approved \1,676,594 for Dublin City University, this decision to an executive appeals officer. She principally for commercialisation of research and was informed by the executive of her right of for direct collaboration projects with industry. further appeal to the social welfare appeals office, 1149 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1150 but I understand from that office that she has not one of these schemes may now obtain a grant if done so to date. they and the person for whom they are caring satisfy certain conditions. Social Welfare Benefits. The grant, which is being increased to \1,000, 107. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social will be payable from 2 June 2005 in respect of and Family Affairs when the one parent family each qualifying person for whom full-time care is allowance will be awarded in the case of a person being provided. (details supplied) in County Kildare; and if he From early May, application forms and infor- will make a statement on the matter. [11497/05] mation leaflets will be available throughout my Department’s network of local offices and will Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. also be available from citizens’ information Brennan): One of the qualifying conditions for centres. In addition, they may be requested by one parent family allowance is that a person be telephone from my Department or by download- separated for at least three months. On examin- ing them from my Department’s web site. ing the application of the person concerned, it An extensive publicity campaign is planned for was noted that she separated from her partner on 10 March 2005 and, therefore, her claim cannot the end of this month and will include advertise- be considered at this time. ments in both provincial and national newspapers If the circumstances of the person concerned as well as posters in various centres and offices. do not change before 10 June 2005 it will be open Officials of my Department have already briefed to her to reapply for the allowance. All papers representatives of carers’ organisations about the received to date will be filed awaiting further scheme. These organisations will in turn be pro- developments. viding information to their members. My Department is setting up a special section 108. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social to deal with this scheme. Arrangements are being and Family Affairs if and when rent support is put in place to ensure applications are processed likely to be made available in the case of a person efficiently and in a timely manner. As part of (details supplied) in County Kildare who has these arrangements a post office box number will special health needs; and if he will make a state- be assigned to the scheme for easy processing of ment on the matter. [11639/05] applications. A dedicated freefone help-line will Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. be operated to coincide with the publicity Brennan): The position remains as set out in my campaign. reply to Question No. 174, which I answered for the Deputy on 25 November 2004. Air Services. The relevant office of the community welfare 110. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Trans- division of the Health Service Executive has port the status accorded to Weston Airport, Leix- again advised that it has no record of an appli- lip, County Kildare; if it has attained code 1, 2 or cation for rent supplement from the person con- 3; and if he will make a statement on the cerned. If he wishes to apply for a rent sup- matter. [11520/05] plement he should contact the community welfare officer at his local health centre for an Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): Weston assessment of his eligibility. Airport is a privately owned aerodrome, the licensing requirements for aerodromes is a matter 109. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social for the Irish Aviation Authority and not some- and Family Affairs further to the respite care thing in which I have a function. grant that was announced in the budget for per- sons who were not in receipt of the carer’s allow- Rail Accidents. ance, the location at which the grant can be applied for; when they can be applied for; the 111. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for application forms which are needed; and if he will Transport if the rail incident on the Dublin- make a statement on the matter. [11642/05] Rosslare line which occurred on 6 April 2005 will be examined by the Rail Safety Commission; if Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. not, the reason therefor; and if he will make a Brennan): In budget 2005, I announced the exten- statement on the matter. [11536/05] sion of the respite care grant scheme to all carers providing full-time care to an older person or a Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I under- person with a disability, regardless of means and stand that the Interim Railway Safety Com- subject to certain qualifying conditions. mission has already been in contact with Iarnro´ d The respite care grant will continue to be pay- E´ ireann about this incident and will monitor able to recipients of carer’s allowance, carer’s closely the company’s internal inquiry. If this benefit, prescribed relative allowance, constant monitoring reveals issues of importance to rail- attendance allowance and domiciliary care allow- way safety, the Interim Railway Safety Com- ance. Carers who do not qualify for a grant under mission will take appropriate action. 1151 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1152

Road Safety. Question No. 113 answered with Question No. 16. 112. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Transport further to the increases in road fatalit- Community Development. ies in 2005, the reason the Government- appointed expert group on road safety has not 114. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- met in over six months; when this group intends munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the extent to meet again; the Government’s views on by which he expects to address any issues of whether it will reach all the targets set out in the urban or rural disadvantage in County Kildare by national road safety strategy; and if he will make way of proceeds from the dormant accounts fund; a statement on the matter. [11583/05] and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11623/05] Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): The high 115. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- level group on road safety, which is chaired by munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the extent my Department and comprises representatives of by which projects in County Kildare have all Departments and agencies that provide input received assistance from the dormant accounts into road safety policy generally, is mandated fund; and if he will make a statement on the with responsibility for the development of the matter. [11624/05] road safety strategy and for monitoring its deliv- ery. The group, which meets about four times Minister of State at the Department of Com- each year, is scheduled to hold its next meeting munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. later this month. The period since the last meet- Ahern): I propose to take Question Nos. 114 and ing of the group has featured the delivery of sig- 115 together. nificant progress on a number of road safety As I indicated in my reply to Question No. 274 related initiatives. Those initiatives have included on 22 February, decisions on the disbursement of the enactment of the Road Traffic Act 2004 and funds from dormant accounts moneys are cur- rently a matter for the Dormant Accounts Fund the establishment of the new Garda traffic corps. Disbursements Board, an independent body The high level group will now focus on the established under the Dormant Accounts Acts. advancement of other key initiatives identified in The board engaged Area Development Manage- the strategy, such as the further rollout of the ment Limited, ADM, to administer the initial penalty points system. Achieving the main target round of funding on its behalf which involves the set in the strategy would see road deaths reduced disbursement of up to \60 million from the fund. to a level of not more than 300 by the end of Following an invitation earlier in 2004 to 2006. The scale of the task facing the high level groups and organisations to make applications for group in realising that target can be measured funding, over 1,600 applications were received by against the fact provisional figures show that in ADM. I understand that 21 of the applications 2004, 380 people died on our roads. The rate of received were in respect of proposals in County fatalities in 2004 has so far been replicated and Kildare. The process of assessing and making indeed slightly exceeded in 2005. This clearly decisions on these applications is nearing com- implies that the efforts of all agencies must be pletion. In this regard, to date the board has focused on halting this worrying trend and then approved 475 projects for funding totalling reversing it in the period between now and the approximately \51.5 million. Ten of the projects end of 2006. approved, involving funding of over \1.4 million, The efforts of the Garda traffic corps to bring are based in County Kildare. Details, including about the deterrent effect associated with high the names of the approved applicants and the levels of enforcement will be critical in this specific grant amounts are appended for regard. information.

Dormant Accounts Board Approvals (Co. Kildare)

Group/Organisation Grant (\)

KARE, Co. Kildare 194,000.00 Hospitaller Order of St. John of God, Celbridge, Co. Kildare 167,336.00 Board of Management, Scoil Pha´draig Naofa, Athy, Co. Kildare 41,000.00 Sisters of Charity of Jesus and Mary, Co. Kildare 300,000.00 Kildare Youth Services (Curragh Youth Project) 81,226.00 Camphill Communities of Ireland, Kilcullen, Co. Kildare 360,000.00 Athy Youth Project, Co. Kildare 58,775.00 Athy Travellers’ Club, Co. Kildare 50,420.00 Athy Town Council 70,838.00 ASSET, Athy, Co. Kildare 100,000.00 1153 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1154

Question No. 115 answered with Question I refer the Deputy to Question No. 40 of 22 No. 114. February 2005 which sets out the range of pro- jects and interventions in regard to urban and Community Development. rural community groups. Within these prog- rammes, there are ongoing initiatives to support 116. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- local community groups. These include measures munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number such as the roll-out of new community develop- of projects from County Kildare in respect of ment projects, new RAPID and CLA´ R initiatives which he has received requests for grant-aid in and the advance of youth services and facilities 2005; the likelihood of a satisfactory response; under the young people’s facilities and services and if he will make a statement on the matter. fund development programme. [11625/05] The only new programme introduced in the last 117. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- 12 months is the rural social scheme which was munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number introduced to focus on the provision of direct ser- of projects based in County Kildare in respect of vices in the community and to ensure an income which he proposes to offer grant-aid; and if he for farmers and fishermen on long-term social will make a statement on the matter. [11626/05] welfare benefits with a working week compatible with such work. Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht ´ Affairs (E´ amon O Cuı´v): I propose to take Ques- National Drugs Strategy. tions Nos. 116 and 117 together. Two existing community development projects 120. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- within County Kildare are funded under the com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he plans a munity development programme. These are the support programme for groups seeking to combat Bridge community development project, New- the drugs problem; the way in which this prog- bridge which receives annual core funding of ramme is likely to deliver the necessary finances; \62,400 and the Athy community development and if he will make a statement on the matter. project which receives annual core funding of [11629/05] \105,400. Minister of State at the Department of Com- North-west Kildare is one of the areas targeted munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. for intervention under the community develop- Ahern): As the Deputy is aware, my Department ment programme. In this regard, North-west has overall responsibility for co-ordinating the Kildare Community Development Association implementation of the national drugs strategy for has undertaken to prepare and forward a work 2001 to 2008. It also has responsibility for the plan setting out the objectives and actions of the work of the local and regional drugs task forces project. The matter will receive further consider- and the young people’s facilities and services ation on receipt of the work plan. Leader prog- fund, YPFSF. Some \95 million has been allo- rammes initiatives are delivered in County cated or spent to implement a broad range of pro- Kildare through Kildare European Teoranta. Full jects contained in the two rounds of plans of the details of all Leader projects funded in County local drugs task forces and a further \12.8 million Kildare are available on its website at has been allocated to projects under the premises www.kelt.ie. initiative which is designed to meet the accommo- My Department has recently begun to adver- dation needs of community-based drugs projects. tise for grant schemes for 2005 in the community In addition, approximately \85 million has been and voluntary sector. Funding is being continued allocated or spent under the YPFSF to support in in 2005 under existing programmes to area part- the region of 450 facility and services projects. nership companies. In overall terms, I am pleased to inform the Deputy that my Department has funding of \31.5 118. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- million available to it in 2005 to fund various munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number drugs programmes, which represents an 18% of urban-based support programmes set up by his increase on last year’s budget. Through this fund- Department in the past 12 months and their ing, the ongoing work done through the local location; and if he will make a statement on the drugs task forces and the YPFSF will be further matter. [11627/05] developed and consolidated. In addition, funding 119. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- will be allocated to the regional drugs task forces munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the number to support the implementation of the various pro- of community-based rural support programmes jects set out in their regional plans. set up by his Department in the past 12 months; and if he will make a statement on the matter. Rural Resettlement Scheme. [11628/05] 121. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if the pro- Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht vision of housing for rural dwellers on family Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I propose to take Ques- lands is proceeding in accordance with his pre- tions Nos. 118 and 119 together. ferred options, with particular reference to his 1155 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1156

[Mr. Durkan.] for his third-year payment he was selected for a views on the dominant influence of An Taisce in full plan check and on-farm inspection. The such cases; and if he will make a statement on the inspection identified deficiencies in his agri- matter. [11630/05] environmental plan and some potential non-com- pliance issues. 122. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- My Department cannot issue a payment in cir- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if he has had discussions with An Taisce in regard to rural cumstances where a plan has been deemed housing; and if he will make a statement on the deficient; the plan must first be amended. The matter. [11631/05] applicant was informed directly of all the issues and of the requirement to amend his plan. An 123. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Com- amended plan has been received and is being con- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if appli- sidered along with the issues of non-compliance. cations for planning permission in rural areas by This process is almost complete and the appro- rural dwellers are being treated in accordance priate payment will issue shortly. with his expressed wishes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11632/05] Grant Payments. Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht 125. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I propose to take Ques- Agriculture and Food when bull premium will be tions Nos. 121 to 123, inclusive, together. awarded to a person (details supplied) in County The national spatial strategy, NSS, addresses Cork; and if she will make a statement on the many of my concerns on issues such as rural hous- matter. [11559/05] ing. The rural settlement policy framework con- tained in the NSS, which represents overall Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Government policy on rural housing, aims to sus- Coughlan): The person named lodged two appli- tain and renew established rural communities cations under the 2004 EU special beef premium while strengthening the structure of villages and scheme, one on 7 January 2004, in respect of 14 smaller settlements to support local economies. animals, and one on 13 December 2004, in respect In this way it seeks to ensure key assets in rural of 19 animals, 14 of which were declared as bulls. areas are protected to support quality of life and The 60% advance payment, which issued on 20 that rural settlement policies are responsive to October 2004, was in respect of 13 of the 14 ani- the local circumstances of different areas. mals applied on under the first application. The The guidelines for planning authorities on sus- 14th animal was not paid as it was shown to be tainable rural housing, published by the Minister female, following computer validation. This ani- for the Environment, Heritage and Local mal was therefore rejected and an appropriate Government, provide a more detailed framework penalty will be applied at balancing payment for planners, based on the national spatial stage. strategy’s recommendations on rural housing While 19 animals were listed on the second policy. The guidelines reflect my view that rural application, there were in reality only 18 animals, housing within the confines of good planning as one animal was listed twice. By letter dated 8 practice is needed. These guidelines are February 2005, the person named was advised important in ensuring clarity and consistency in that, because of this, payment could only issue in the implementation by planning authorities of respect of 18 animals. This payment is due to Government policy on rural housing. issue to the person named shortly. While my Department does not monitor or maintain statistics in regard to rural planning 126. Mr. G. Murphy asked the Minister for applications, I am advised by my colleague, the Agriculture and Food if she will review a force Minister for the Environment, Heritage and majeure application for a person (details Local Government that, in general, the guidelines supplied) in County Cork; and the amount of referred to are operating satisfactorily. I advised moneys this person will be awarded. [11560/05] the Deputy previously that I have not had any formal discussions or meeting with An Taisce and Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary that remains the position. Coughlan): The person named applied for con- sideration of force majeure or exceptional circum- Rural Environment Protection Scheme. stances on 4 February 2004 on the grounds of a farm accident. Having fully examined the circum- 124. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Agri- stances outlined by the person named, the culture and Food the reason a person (details Department’s decision was that this application supplied) in County Mayo has not received a was eligible and the years 2001 and 2002 were REP scheme payment for the past two years. excluded in the calculation of this person’s single [11538/05] payment entitlements. The person named was Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary notified of this decision on 12 July 2004. Coughlan): The person named has one year’s My Department’s records indicate that the per- payment outstanding as his second-year REPS son named has 33.86 entitlements with a total net payment issued on 20 May 2004. When he applied value of \12,203.15. I have arranged to have a 1157 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1158 copy of the named person’s entitlements issued Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to him. (Mr. McDowell): I refer the Deputy to the reply I gave to Questions Nos. 726 and 781 on Departmental Staff. Wednesday, 26 January 2005. The position 127. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- regarding the return of the person referred to by culture and Food the status of the development the Deputy remains the same. of the district livestock office for County Leitrim; The person in question is due to present to the the number of staff from her Department that Garda National Immigration Bureau at 13/14 will be accommodated in the new building; and if Burgh Quay, Dublin 2, again today at 2 p.m. I she will make a statement on the matter. am advised by the bureau that the timing of her [11617/05] removal will have regard to her ongoing medical state. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): The Office of Public Works, OPW, Citizenship Applications. purchased a site in Drumshanbo, County Leitrim, for the development of a local office for my 130. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Department. An application for planning per- Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his decision mission was submitted by OPW to Leitrim to refuse naturalisation in the case of persons County Council taking account of an accommo- (details supplied) is in accord with established dation brief of requirements for some 70 staff practice in the case of persons who have worked from my Department. I understand that a in full-time employment here for more than five decision to grant permission was issued recently years; if a new precedent is being set for future by the council. reference; and if he will make a statement on the The Department is currently reassessing the matter. [11514/05] number of staff to be located in Drumshanbo in the light of the rationalisation of existing live- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stock schemes and the introduction of the single (Mr. McDowell): There has never been an estab- payment scheme. lished practice or a precedent in place whereby an applicant for naturalisation who has been in Registration of Title. full-time employment in the State for five years 128. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Justice, will become an Irish citizen solely on that basis. Equality and Law Reform when a dealing will be It has always been the case that standard inquiries completed for a person (details supplied) in are carried out in respect of each application County Mayo in the Land Registry Office. relating to character, financial background etc. [11512/05] and that a determination on the an application will only be made once such inquiries are Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform completed. (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar An application for naturalisation was received of Titles that this is an application for first regis- from the male adult member of the family only. tration which was lodged on 17 June 2004. Deal- The basis for the refusal of this application has ing No. D2004SM005092P refers. been set out in detail in the letter dated 17 I understand that due to the complicated nat- February 2005 to the applicant informing him of ure of these types of cases, which require examin- ation of an applicant’s entitlement to the property my decision. concerned, it is not possible to estimate a date of I have adopted a general policy that applicants completion at this time. for naturalisation, other than refugees, prog- I can further inform the Deputy that queries ramme refugees or stateless persons, should have issued to the lodging solicitor on 22 June 2004 been supporting themselves and their families and that the application cannot proceed until without recourse to State support for a three-year these queries have been satisfactorily resolved. period prior to applying for naturalisation, and However, I assure the Deputy that on receipt of that, furthermore, they can show, as far as is prac- a satisfactory reply, the matter will receive further ticable, that they have the capacity of supporting attention in the Land Registry. themselves into the future. Inquiries by my officials revealed that the per- Deportation Orders. son in question had received various State sup- 129. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, ports, including rent allowance and unemploy- Equality and Law Reform if his attention has ment assistance, between 1997 and 2002 and had been drawn to the likely dangers of a life threat- received substantial payments under a back to ening nature in the event of deportation to the work scheme between 2002 and 2004. Democratic Republic of the Congo of a person I was of the view that there were no circum- (details supplied) in County Kildare; if he will stances disclosed on the case file of the person grant extended residency in such circumstances; concerned to lead me to depart from my general and if he will make a statement on the matter. policy in such cases and I decided to refuse the [11513/05] application. 1159 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1160

Registration of Title. road safety and thereby reduce death and injur- ies, not increase revenue. 131. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Justice, A working group on speed cameras chaired by Equality and Law Reform if a copy of a Land my Department, and consisting of representatives Registry Office instrument number will issue to a of the Garda Sı´ocha´na, the Department of Trans- solicitor (details supplied) in County Mayo. port and the National Roads Authority, has [11535/05] examined how the provision, operation and pro- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform cessing of the output of speed cameras might (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar operate. Among the issues considered by the of Titles that this is an application for a copy of working group were the benefits and financial instrument which was lodged on 23 March 2005. aspects of outsourcing and the management of Dealing Number C2005SM000343J refers. I am any outsourcing project. The working group has further informed that this application was com- submitted its report to me and my colleague, the pleted on 7 April 2005. Minister for Transport, and we are examining it with a view to bringing proposals to Government. 132. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform when applications Liquor Licensing Laws. which are pending for a folio number (details supplied) will be dealt with. [11537/05] 134. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his plans to reform the liquor licensing legislation; and if he Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will make a statement on the matter. [11555/05] (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Registrar of Titles that the applications referred to by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Deputy comprise: three applications for transfer (Mr. McDowell): The Government has recently of part — sale, two of which were lodged on 22 approved my proposals for the drafting of an October 2002 and one which was lodged on 16 Intoxicating Liquor Bill which will repeal the January 2004; and an application for transfer, Licensing Acts 1833 to 2004, as well as related sale, which was lodged on 5 July 2004. Dealings licensing provisions in other statutes, approxi- Nos. D2003SM008908M, D2003SM008900B, mately 100 statutes, and replace them with D2004SM000465A and D2004SM005581D refer. updated provisions geared to modern conditions. I am further informed that the applications are I intend to publish shortly details of the proposals receiving attention in the Land Registry and, sub- which will be included in the Bill. ject to no queries arising, should be completed within the next few weeks. Garda Stations. 135. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Justice, Garda Equipment. Equality and Law Reform if the building of the 133. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for new Ballymun Garda station will result in any Justice, Equality and Law Reform if adequate reorganisation or redesignation in this Garda dis- funds will be provided to the Garda in County trict; the implications for Santry and Whitehall Garda Stations; and if he will make a statement Louth for the provision of speed cameras on the on the matter. [11556/05] approach roads to the towns of Drogheda, Dun- dalk and Ardee. [11554/05] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Mr. McDowell): The Garda authorities inform Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform me that the new station at Ballymun will be a (Mr. McDowell): The budget allocated from the divisional and district headquarters. There are no Garda Vote for road traffic equipment for 2005 \ implications for the status of Whitehall Garda is 1,106,000. This budget is used for the purchase station. The Garda Sı´ocha´na will continue to and maintenance of road traffic equipment as operate from Santry Garda station on completion required. The deployment of Garda resources is of the new headquarters at Ballymun. a matter for the Garda Commissioner. The Government’s road safety strategy 2004-06 Child Care Facilities. proposes that the Garda Sı´ocha´na will enter into arrangements for the engagement of a private 136. Mr. Perry asked the Minister for Justice, sector concern for the purposes of the provision Equality and Law Reform the funding that will and operation of a nationwide programme for the be granted to a group (details supplied) in County detection of speeding offences. The strategy Sligo under the capital grant; when a decision will makes clear that the overall performance criteria be made; and if he will make a statement on the to be applied to the outsourced detection of matter. [11581/05] speeding offences would be determined by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Garda Sı´ocha´na and these would be guided by (Mr. McDowell): The group submitted an appli- the use of camera detection facilities at locations cation for capital grant assistance under the where the Garda Sı´ocha´na determine that there Equal Opportunities Childcare Programme 2000- is an established or prospective risk of collisions. 2006 to my Department some time ago. The prog- The purpose of the initiative would be to increase ramme is a seven year development programme 1161 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1162 which aims to increase the availability and quality In assessing any visa application, the visa of child care to support parents in employment, officer will consider various matters, including education and training. whether it is reasonable in all the circumstances The level of demand for capital grant assistance to conclude that the applicant would fully honour was such that I considered it important to the conditions of the visa, for example, it is increase the capital provision for the present unlikely that the applicant would overstay the programme. Following discussions with my col- length of time applied for. The application in league the Minister for Finance, an additional question was refused on 29 October 2004 because capital provision of \90 million was made avail- the visa officer could not reasonably be satisfied, able over the period 2005-09, in the context of the on the basis of documentation supplied to my 2005 budget. Department, that the applicant would observe the Of this amount, \50 million is being made conditions of the visa applied for. The formal available under the present programme and the notification of the refusal issued to Ukraine on 12 remaining \40 million will flow under the next November 2004. The reasons for the refusal were phase of the post-2006 programme. This aug- issued on 15 December 2004. ments the increased EU funding of some \12 The Deputy submitted an appeal of the million made available last year in recognition of decision to refuse the visa application on behalf the progress of the programme. This brings the of the applicant. However, based on the total funding available for the programme to additional documentation supplied, the visa \499.3 million and now includes an increased pro- appeals officer was unable to conclude that the vision for capital developments for which \205 initial decision should be overturned. Conse- million has been set aside. Since the 2005 budget, quently, the application was refused on appeal on I have announced a record allocation totalling 7 April 2005 and notification of this decision was almost \68 million in capital funding to com- issued to the applicant on 12 April 2005. munity-based not-for-profit groups, in two If the applicant still wishes to travel, a fresh tranches, one in December 2004 and another on application should be submitted to my Depart- 4 March 2005. ment with up-to-date documentation and the The availability of the additional capital fund- matter will be considered anew. ing will enable me to make further capital grant assistance available to groups which address sig- Garda Deployment. nificant child care service gaps and where the pro- 138. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for ject proposal represents good value for money Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number, when considered in the context of the current gender and rank of gardaı´ that are allocated to guidelines on building costs. In the light of this, the drug squad in Sligo; the other resources that the group in question was advised in December are allocated to the drug squad in Sligo; the 2004, that whilst their project had not been prior- number of gardaı´ attached to the drug squad itised for immediate funding at that stage, it will nationally; if he intends to increase the number; be reconsidered in the future. I hope to make and if he will make a statement on the matter. further significant capital commitments during [11593/05] the remainder of 2005 and thereafter. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform The ongoing assessment of the applications in (Mr. McDowell): The personnel strength of the the pipeline will be concluded as speedily as poss- Sligo-Leitrim divisional drug unit on 13 April ible to facilitate the development of additional 2005 was as set out in the table. child care facilities and places at the earliest opportunity. When the assessment on the project Number Rank Gender in question is completed, the programme appraisal committee, chaired by my Department, 1 Sergeant Male will consider it before I make a final decision. 3 Gardaı´ Male Meanwhile, it would be premature of me to com- 1 D/Garda Male ment further on this application.

Visa Applications. The divisional drugs unit for Sligo-Leitrim has the use of an unmarked patrol car, full use of mobile 137. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Justice, phones, a dedicated office and full use of the Equality and Law Reform when a visa appeal for Garda radio system. The personnel strength of a person (details supplied) will be decided on; the Garda National Drugs Unit, who have a and if he will make a statement on the matter. national remit, as at 13 April 2005 was 50, all [11584/05] ranks. The information requested on the number Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of gardaı´ attached to the drug units nationally is (Mr. McDowell): The visa application to which being compiled and will be forwarded to the the Deputy refers was for the purposes of Deputy as soon as possible. allowing a non-EEA national travel to the State To ensure the development of a co-ordinated to visit her mother’s family. The application was and integrated approach is in place to tackle the drugs problem, the Government in 2002, estab- received in my office on 27 September 2004. lished ten regional drugs task forces across the 1163 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1164

[Mr. McDowell.] application was submitted to me for a decision in country based on the old health board areas. The January 2005 and I decided not to grant a certifi- north-western regional drug task force’s area of cate of naturalisation in that instance. In arriving remit includes Sligo. The Garda Sı´ocha´na and the at my decision, I took account of all the infor- Probation and Welfare Service are both rep- mation and documentation submitted by the resented on this group. Since their establishment, applicant. the task forces, including the north-western The applicant was informed of my decision in regional drug task force have been involved in a writing on 1 February 2005 and a copy of my process of mapping out the nature and extent of officials’ submission, with my decision annotated drug misuse in their regions and they are thereon, was made available to him. The Irish developing action plans to tackle the problem Nationality and Citizenship Act does not provide which will be presented to Government during for a process of review of my determination of an 2005. application for naturalisation. The Government has approved my proposal to increase the strength of the Garda Sı´ocha´na to Anti-Social Behaviour. 14,000 members on a phased basis, in line with 141. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Justice, the An Agreed Programme for Government Equality and Law Reform if his attention has commitment in this regard. This is a key commit- been drawn to the contents of correspondence ment in the programme for Government, and its from a person (details supplied) in Dublin 17 implementation will significantly strengthen the regarding serious ongoing anti-social activity operational capacity of the force. directed at their family; and the action which he The Commissioner will draw up plans on how has taken on foot of these complaints. [11602/05] best to distribute and manage these additional resources. The needs of Garda drugs unit will be Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform fully considered within the context of the needs (Mr. McDowell): I have been informed by the of Garda units throughout the country. The Garda authorities that they are aware of the additional resources will be targeted at the areas problems being experienced by this family and of greatest need, as is envisaged in the prog- the matter is being addressed by local Garda ramme for Government. The programme iden- management. I am further informed that a Garda tifies in particular areas with a significant drugs inspector from Santry station is personally liaising problem and a high proportion of public order with the family in question and the area con- offences, but it will be possible to address other cerned is receiving daily Garda attention. There priorities as well, such as the need to increase the is also a community Garda allocated to the area. number of gardaı´ allocated to traffic duties as In addition, there are contacts between the Garda part of the new Garda traffic corps. The and the relevant local authority. additional gardaı´ will not be put on administra- Some persons have been arrested and dealt tive duties but will be put directly into frontline, with under the juvenile diversion programme and operational, high-visibility policing. They will prosecutions are pending before the District have a real impact. Courts in regard to other incidents. Policing plans in the area aim to prevent anti-social and public Garda Complaints Procedure. order offences, to prevent crime including crimes of violence against persons and crimes against 139. Mr. Costello asked the Minister for property and to maintain an environment con- Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on ducive to the improvement of quality of life of the correspondence (details supplied); if the alle- residents. Patrols are directed to pay particular gations contained therein are accurate; and if he attention to residential areas where local youths will make a statement on the matter. [11594/05] tend to congregate. I understand that this strategy Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is, and will continue to be, central to the delivery (Mr. McDowell): I am making inquiries of the of a policing service to the area in question. Garda authorities on this matter and I will com- municate with the Deputy as soon as all of the Asylum Applications. details of the case are to hand. 142. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if a person (details Citizenship Applications. supplied) in County Kerry will be given humani- 140. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Justice, tarian leave to remain. [11604/05] Equality and Law Reform if and when a review Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of an application for naturalisation will be under- (Mr. McDowell): The person concerned arrived taken in the case of a person (details supplied) in in the State on 20 April 2003 and applied for asy- County Dublin; and if he will make a statement lum. His application was refused following con- on the matter. [11595/05] sideration of his case by the Office of the Refugee Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Applications Commissioner and, on appeal, by (Mr. McDowell): An application for a certificate the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. of naturalisation was received from the person to Subsequently, in accordance with section 3 of whom the Deputy refers in March 2003. The the Immigration Act 1999, as amended, he was 1165 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1166 informed by letter dated 12 August 2004 that the Site Acquisitions. Minister proposed to make a deportation order 145. Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Edu- in respect of him. He was given the options, to cation and Science if she will honour previous be exercised within 15 working days, of making land acquisition and building commitments made representations to the Minister setting out the to a school (details supplied) in County reasons why he should be allowed to remain tem- Tipperary; and if she will make a statement on porarily in the State, leaving the State before an the matter. [11517/05] order is made or consenting to the making of a deportation order. Minister for Education and Science (Ms This person’s case file, including all represen- Hanafin): The extension and refurbishment pro- tations submitted, will be considered under ject at the school to which the Deputy refers has section 3(6) of the Immigration Act 1999, as been assessed in accordance with the published amended, and section 5 of the Refugee Act 1996 prioritisation criteria, which was revised following — prohibition of refoulement. I expect the file to consultation with the education partners. be passed to me for decision in due course. The proposed project at the school referred to will be considered in the context of the school Languages Programme. building and modernisation programme 2005- 2009. 143. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Edu- cation and Science the nature of his Department’s School Enrolments. involvement in the case of an academy (details supplied) in Dublin 2; and if his attention has 146. Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Edu- been drawn to the fact that the closure of the cation and Science if she will redraft or amend premises has resulted in several dozen foreign primary circular 32/03 to allow for the concerns students being left without a service, having paid of parents to be taken into account when deciding \1,500 in fees. [11603/05] on the retention of a pupil for a year in primary school; and if she will make a statement on the Minister for Education and Science (Ms matter. [11518/05] Hanafin): The Advisory Council for English Lan- guage Schools, ACELS, operates under the aegis Minister for Education and Science (Ms of my Department to control quality standards in Hanafin): My Department’s policy in regard to English language schools through an inspection- the retention of pupils in primary schools is set recognition scheme. ACELS administers the out in Primary Circular 32/03 which issued to all scheme which leads to school recognition by my primary schools in December 2003. Department. Recognition of schools arises from Under my Department’s policy, pupils should their satisfying certain minimum standards in only repeat a year for educational reasons and relation to premises, learning and teaching pro- under no circumstances should an additional vision and facilities. Recognition does not relate grade level, middle infants or a repeat sixth class, to the financial status or viability of the private operate through the retention of all or a substan- institutions involved. tial number of pupils for a second year at a grade The academy referred to by the Deputy level. The level of provision now available should applied to ACELS for recognition in September enable pupils to make progress in keeping with 2003. At that time, ACELS regulations stipulated their needs and abilities and to move consecu- that two inspections be carried out, ten months tively through the different class levels in the apart, before recognition could be considered. school in keeping with their peers. The first inspection was carried out in October In addition, pupils who have completed sixth 2003 and a written report was sent to the school class must not transfer to another primary school outlining a number of matters that required to repeat sixth class. In the event that a school attention. No application was submitted for a were to enrol pupils from another school to second inspection. The school had not, therefore, repeat sixth class the pupils shall not be included secured recognition. as eligible pupils for staffing and other purposes. Capitation and other grants in respect of such Swimming Pool Projects. pupils shall not be paid. The primary school cur- riculum is designed as an eight year course, 144. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Edu- including a two year infant cycle followed by six cation and Science the total amount of public years in standards from first to sixth, with chil- funds allocated to DCU for the construction of a dren progressing to the next grade at the end of swimming pool. [11612/05] each school year. Minister for Education and Science (Ms I am aware that there may be individual cases Hanafin): Following an announcement in budget where a principal teacher, following consultation 2002 of an allocation of \7 million to DCU for with the learning support teacher-resource the construction of a swimming pool, my Depart- teacher and class teacher and parent(s) of the ment has provided funding for this project pupil may conclude that a pupil would benefit through the Higher Education Authority. I am educationally by repeating a grade level. In such not aware of any other public funds being allo- cases, as outlined in Circular 32/03, my Depart- cated to this project. ment would allow the retention provided there is 1167 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1168

[Ms Hanafin.] tive persons to the barrister-at-law degree at an educational basis for it, and there is a clear King’s Inns. [11550/05] programme for the pupil to follow. There are no Minister for Education and Science (Ms plans at present to review Circular 32/03. Hanafin): Under the terms of my Department’s higher education grants scheme, a student is not Schools Building Projects. eligible for grant assistance in respect of a second 147. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- period of study at the same level, irrespective of cation and Science the position regarding an whether a grant was paid previously. The scheme application by a school (details supplied) in also provides that grants may not be paid to can- Dublin 8 for major capital works; and the issues didates who already hold a post-graduate qualifi- that require clarification. [11529/05] cation and are pursuing a second post-graduate qualification. Minister for Education and Science (Ms However the terms of clause 7.7 of the higher Hanafin): As part of a review of all projects for education grants scheme and the VEC scholar- the 2005 capital programme, an application for ship scheme were amended in 2000 to provide capital funding from the school referred to by the that candidates who already hold a post-graduate Deputy was assessed against the published prior- qualification and are pursuing a further post- itisation criteria for large-scale building projects graduate course at a higher level, and which rep- which were revised last year following consul- resents progression from the level at which the tation with the education partners. first qualification was attained, may be deemed Under this review, all projects were assigned a eligible for grant aid. band rating and the progress of individual pro- The barrister-at-law course at the Honourable jects is being considered in the context of the Society of King’s Inns is at post-graduate level. school building programme from 2005 onwards. Admission to the course is restricted to law graduates and other candidates who have passed Languages Programme. the society’s diploma in legal studies examination. 148. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Edu- In the light of representations received I have cation and Science if, in the context of arrange- asked my Department to review the status of this ments between her Department and the Govern- course for grant purposes. ment of China in relation to the promotion of English language teaching in the third level sec- Pupil-Teacher Ratio. tor, there are opportunities for such programmes 150. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Edu- to be taught in the further education sector as cation and Science if her attention has been referred to in correspondence (details supplied); drawn to the fact that the average class size at a and if she will make a statement on the school (details supplied) in County Wexford is matter. [11530/05] 28.9 pupils; that over 50% of pupils are in split classes with one teacher for 30 junior infants and Minister for Education and Science (Ms that learning supports for children with special Hanafin): The Education Co-operation Agree- educational needs are inadequate; the reason this ment between Ireland and China was signed in situation prevails in view of the commitment in Beijing in February 2001. The overall objective of the 2002 programme for Government to reduce the agreement is to promote and encourage co- the pupil teacher ratio in schools; if the pupil operation in education between Ireland and teacher ratio at this school will be reduced for the China on the basis of equality, mutual benefit and academic year 2005-2006 by the appointment of reciprocity and to strengthen existing education an extra teacher; and if she will make a statement links with China. It provides a formal framework on the matter. [11561/05] in which co-operation arrangements can be developed between the two countries. Minister for Education and Science (Ms The agreement plays a key role in strengthen- Hanafin): The mainstream staffing of a primary ing educational links between the two countries. school is determined by applying the enrolment These links include: study of the language of the of the school on 30 September of the previous other side; information technology in schools; school year to a staffing schedule, agreed between possible student exchanges; possible joint my Department and the education partners. The research initiatives in areas of mutual benefit; and system for allocating teachers to primary schools exchange of education information. is based on ensuring an overall maximum class of The student exchanges-scholarships relate to 29 in each school. Where some classes in a school the third level sector. No role for the further edu- have class sizes of greater than 29, it is generally because a decision has been taken at local level cation sector is envisaged. to use their teaching resources to have smaller numbers in other classes. Higher Education Grants. In accordance with the staffing schedule, the 149. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Edu- staffing of the school referred to by the Deputy cation and Science if she will review the eligibility for the school year 2004-05 is a principal and to the higher education grant scheme of prospec- seven mainstream class teachers based on an 1169 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1170 enrolment of 195 pupils at 30 September 2003. In the needs and abilities of that person. This addition, the school has the services of one full- includes provision for students learning through time resource post, a shared resource post and a ISL. shared learning support post. My Department A number of initiatives which seek to promote, will finalise the staffing schedule for the 2005-06 develop and implement ISL in order that it will school year shortly and thereafter notify school achieve greater recognition and use in the edu- boards of management. cation system are currently in place. These According to data submitted to my Depart- include the special schools for the deaf in Cabra, ment by the board of management of the school, Dublin, which have been encouraged in relation the enrolment on 30 September 2004 was 201 to the use of sign language in class. All teachers pupils. The staffing for the 2005-2006 school year now receive ongoing in-service training in the use will be determined on the basis of this figure and of ISL. My Department has provided funding for in accordance with the agreed staffing schedule. an ISL weekly home tuition service whereby deaf Significant improvements have been made to the tutors visit the homes of deaf pre-school children pupil-teacher ratio at primary level, which has and deaf school-going pupils to provide training fallen from 22.2:1 in the 1996-97 school year to in ISL for the deaf children-pupils, their siblings 17.44:1 in the 2003-04 school year. and parents. My Department has sanctioned a In line with Government policy, my Depart- pre-school for deaf children on a pilot basis. Prog- ment will continue to provide further reductions rammes are delivered through the medium of ISL in the pupil teacher ratio within available as a first language. My Department through the resources and subject to spending priorities Higher Education Authority, HSA, has estab- within the education sector. lished and fully funds a Centre for Deaf Studies Priority will be given to pupils with special in Trinity College, Dublin which provides dip- needs, those from disadvantaged areas and those loma courses for ISL-English interpreters, deaf in junior classes. I trust that the Deputy is aware tutors and in deaf studies. of the proposed new system for resource teacher My officials are willing to meet with represen- allocation which involves a general allocation for tatives of the organisation in question in the con- all primary schools to cater for pupils with higher text of its letter to my Department and contact incidence special educational needs, borderline will be made with the writer shortly. mild and mild general learning disability and specific learning disability. This system also Residential Institutions Redress Scheme. applies to those with learning support needs, that 152. Mr. McGuinness asked the Minister for is, functioning at or below the 10th percentile on Education and Science the reason an institution a standardised test of reading and-or mathemat- (details supplied) has not been included in the ics. My Department is currently reviewing the redress scheme; and if she will make a statement proposal to ensure that it provides an automatic on the matter. [11585/05] response for pupils with higher incidence special educational needs. Minister for Education and Science (Ms The review involves consultation with edu- Hanafin): Section 4 of the Residential Institutions cational interests, including the National Council Redress Act 2002 provides that in order for an for Special Education. The revised procedure for institution to be placed on the Schedule of the providing a general allocation of resource hours Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002, the to schools will be announced in the coming facility must have been subject to inspection or weeks, in time to be implemented for the next regulation by a public body. Some 128 institutions school year. are listed on the original Schedule to the Act and I signed an order in November 2004 for the Irish Language. inclusion of a further 13 institutions in the Schedule. 151. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for My Department has received correspondence Education and Science if Irish sign language will from both individuals and survivor groups identi- be given official status in legislation; and if she fying a number of additional institutions that may will make a statement on the matter. [11562/05] be eligible for inclusion in the Schedule. Dis- Minister for Education and Science (Ms cussions have taken place between my Depart- Hanafin): There are no plans to provide legis- ment and other Departments that may have pro- lation in the context of Irish sign language, ISL, vided a regulatory or inspection function in the at present. operation of these facilities in order to ascertain However, I wish to advise the Deputy that ISL whether these institutions are in fact eligible for has formal recognition in the Education Act 1998. inclusion. The initial information received in Under the Act, it is a function of the Minister for some cases was limited due to the long period Education and Science to ensure, subject to the that had elapsed since these institutions were provisions of the Act, that there is made available closed and therefore the process of verifying each to each person resident in the State, including a of these institutions has been time consuming and person with a disability or who has other special is continuing. educational needs, support services and a level I can confirm for the Deputy that the insti- and quality of education appropriate to meeting tution named in the question is one where inquir- 1171 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1172

[Ms Hanafin.] Minister for Education and Science (Ms ies are being made as to its eligibility for Hanafin): The scope of the works referred to by inclusion. the Deputy is appropriate for consideration under the summer works scheme. Special Educational Needs. The schools in question made a joint appli- cation for funding under the summer works 153. Mr. Aylward asked the Minister for Edu- scheme for 2005. This application did not comply cation and Science the reason a person (details with the terms and conditions of the scheme in supplied) in County Kilkenny will not be granted that it was not accompanied by the necessary con- resource hours in their local primary school; and sultant’s report. The application was unsuccessful if this case will be reviewed as a matter of for this reason. urgency. [11586/05] My Department will be in contact with the Minister for Education and Science (Ms schools shortly in relation to the appeal submitted Hanafin): The Deputy may be aware that the by them in the matter. National Council for Special Education, NCSE, which was established recently and which has Educational Disadvantage. been operational since 1 January 2005, is respon- 156. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for sible for processing applications for special edu- Education and Science if her attention has been cational needs, SEN, supports. drawn to the fact that schools (details supplied) Some 71 special educational needs organisers, in Dublin 10 are in an area of major disadvantage, SENOs, have been recruited throughout the a drugs task force area, a partnership area and country and will be a focal point of contact for also the area with the lowest educational attain- schools and parents. ment in the State; and her views on whether, My Department officials have been informed when the environment for pupils to learn is not by the NCSE that the application for the SEN attractive, is disrupted or is unsafe, it adds to the supports for the pupil concerned has been difficult task faced by the teachers, the parents referred to the local SENO. The SENO will be in and the community in general. [11589/05] direct contact with the school authorities shortly. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): The new policy framework for tackling Schools Refurbishment. educational disadvantage that I will be publishing 154. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for shortly will provide for a new standardised system Education and Science if her attention has been for identifying levels of disadvantage and will put drawn to the fact that her Department’s planning in place a new integrated programme of supports and building unit turned down an application for that will bring together, and build upon existing schools (details supplied) in Dublin 10 to be policy interventions and initiatives for schools allowed in this year’s summer works programme; and school communities with a concentrated level if her attention has further been drawn to the fact of disadvantage. that they have submitted an appeal; and if she The new policy framework will be introduced will make a statement on the matter. [11587/05] on a phased basis, starting in the next school year, and will involve an additional annual investment Minister for Education and Science (Ms of \40 million on full implementation. It will also Hanafin): The schools referred to by the Deputy involve the provision of some 300 additional posts made a joint application for funding under the across the education system. summer works scheme 2005. This application did Some of these posts will be used to provide not comply with the terms and conditions of the smaller class sizes in targeted disadvantaged pri- scheme in that it was not accompanied by the mary schools. We will be narrowing the gap necessary consultant’s report. The application between the size of junior and senior classes in was unsuccessful for this reason. the most disadvantaged schools, by providing for My Department will be in contact with the classes of 24 at senior level. Ensuring that more schools shortly in relation to the appeal submitted children from disadvantaged areas are taught in by them in the matter. smaller classes is a priority for me as an important step in delivering on the Government’s commit- 155. Aengus O´ Snodaigh asked the Minister for ments with regard to class size in the primary Education and Science if her attention has been school system as a whole. drawn to the fact that schools (details supplied) The schools to which the Deputy refers are cur- in Dublin 10 have been the target of several rently included in the disadvantaged areas recent arson attacks and that the key holder for scheme, DAS, the home school community liai- the schools has also been attacked when son, HSCL, scheme, and the Giving Children an responding to alarms and incidents around the Even Break, GCEB, programme. Under these schools; and if she will make a statement on the programmes each of the schools referred to by schools’ request for security railings and closed the Deputy have received 2.5 additional teaching circuit television to address these problems and posts for the current school year, as well as prevent further damage. [11588/05] additional financial support. 1173 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1174

These schools are also included in the school persons (details supplied) who are attending a completion programme, which is my Depart- school in County Kildare; and if she will make a ment’s main programme for tackling early school- statement on the matter. [11635/05] leaving. The school completion programme is based on an integrated cross-community Minister for Education and Science (Ms approach to tackling educational disadvantage, Hanafin): I can confirm that an application for involving primary and post primary schools, resource teaching hours for the first named pupil parents, communities and relevant statutory and was considered by my Department. The school voluntary agencies. Its objective is to provide a in question was advised that the pupil’s special range of interventions in areas of disadvantage educational needs, SEN, appear to be within the that support the retention of young people in high incidence disability range and it would be education. The three schools referred to by the expected that these needs can be met from within Deputy are part of a school completion prog- the current resource-learning support teaching ramme “cluster” that received an allocation of allocation available to the school. The school cur- \192,000 in the current school year. rently has the services of two learning support teachers and seven resource teachers. It is a matter for the school to deploy these resources to Site Acquisitions. meet the SEN of the pupils in the school. 157. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Edu- I can also confirm that correspondence relating cation and Science the status of the acquisition of to this pupil’s resource allocation was recently a site for a school (details supplied) in County received in my Department. This correspondence Roscommon; when the OPW will hand over the has been sent to the National Council for Special site in question; and if she will make a statement Education, NCSE, which now has responsibility on the matter. [11618/05] for processing applications for SEN supports. The NCSE will make direct contact with the school in Minister for Education and Science (Ms this regard. As previously outlined to the Deputy, Hanafin): Officials in the school planning section 23.3 hours per week special needs assistant sup- of my Department are re-assessing the accommo- port was sanctioned on 18 March 2005 to cater dation needs of the school referred to by the for the special care needs of the pupil concerned. Deputy in accordance with the published prior- itisation criteria which was revised following con- In relation to the second pupil referred to by sultation with the education partners. the Deputy, I can confirm that an application for five hours resource teaching support and a full- Until a final decision is taken on this matter, time special needs assistant, SNA, was considered the property management section of the OPW, by my Department. In a letter dated 23 Sep- which acquires sites on behalf of my Department, tember 2004, the school was advised that 3.5 is not in a position to further progress the matter hours resource teaching support was sanctioned. of the acquisition of a site for the school. The school was also advised recently that this pupil did not meet the criteria for SNA support Schools Refurbishment. as there was insufficient evidence of care needs. 158. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- I can also confirm that correspondence relating cation and Science if special security fencing will to the level of this pupil’s SEN allocation was be provided at a school (details supplied) in received recently in my Department. This corre- County Kildare to ensure maximum safety for spondence has been sent to the National Council children during the course of the school for Special Education, NCSE, for consideration. rebuilding works with particular reference to The NCSE will make direct contact with the preventing children wandering onto the roadway school in this context. or the building site; and if she will make a state- I wish to advise the Deputy that responsibility ment on the matter. [11634/05] for the provision of therapy services rests with the Health Service Executive. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): The school authority in question, which Water and Sewerage Schemes. is the client for this project, has as part of the building contract erected fencing to prevent chil- 160. Mr. P. Breen asked the Minister for the dren accessing the building site at the school. Environment, Heritage and Local Government, They are not aware of any further safety issues further to Question No. 572 of 19 October 2004, involving the fencing. If the Deputy wishes to if the documentation and contracts have been provide specific information on this matter I will approved for the Ballyvaughan and Fanore group arrange for it to be brought to the attention of water scheme; and if he will make a statement on the school authority and its design team. the matter. [11492/05] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Special Needs Education. Local Government (Mr. Roche): Responsibility 159. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- for the administration of the group water schemes cation and Science the extent to which she measure of the rural water programme has been expects to be in a position to provide for the devolved to local authorities since 1997. special needs and child guidance in the case of However, the question may relate to stage two 1175 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1176

[Mr. Roche.] pancy between ten and 20 years and after 20 of the Lisdoonvarna public water supply, which years of full occupancy no refund would be due involves an extension of the scheme to Bally- to the local authority. vaughan and Fanore, and has been approved for construction in my Department’s water services Turbary Rights. investment programme 2004-2006. 162. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for the My Department has now asked Clare County Environment, Heritage and Local Government if Council to consider undertaking the Fanore he will sign an order to facilitate the issuing of a extension as a separate project under the rural top-up acreage payment to landowners who sold water programme to expedite the provision of an bog to his Department prior to the introduction improved water supply to the Fanore area. On of the new payment scheme; and if he will make receipt of the council’s reply my Department’s a statement on the matter. [11552/05] consideration will be finalised urgently. Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Social and Affordable Housing Schemes. Local Government (Mr. Roche): In July 2004 my 161. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for the Department concluded an agreement with the Environment, Heritage and Local Government farming pillar under Sustaining Progress which the way in which the price of affordable housing involved increased rates of compensation for the to the eligible purchaser is determined; if an cessation of turf-cutting in bogs that have been additional sum is added to the price paid to the proposed as designated conservation areas. This developer, as well as the clawback clause; and if agreement incorporates retrospective provisions he will make a statement on the matter. benefiting landowners who participated in the [11519/05] original 1999 scheme for disposal of raised bogs and turbary rights to my Department. Minister of State at the Department of the The detailed application of retrospection to Environment, Heritage and Local Government these earlier participants in the scheme is being (Mr. N. Ahern): An agreement under Part V of finalised and will be communicated as soon as the Planning and Development Acts 2000 to 2004 possible. may provide for, inter alia, the developer building and transferring completed affordable units to Local Authority Housing. the planning authority. The number and descrip- tion of the units will be specified in the agreement 163. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for the Envir- and will be transferred at a price determined on onment, Heritage and Local Government the the basis of the site cost of the units, calculated recognised percentage of income payable under at existing use value together with the building his Department’s legislation for senior citizens and development costs, including profits, as housing; and if he will make a statement on the agreed between both parties. matter. [11567/05] Under the 1999 affordable housing scheme, the 165. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for the Envir- housing units are generally built on land provided onment, Heritage and Local Government the by the local authority whose actual cost is below guidelines issued by his Department to local auth- the present day market value. This lower site cost orities in regard to rent payments for local auth- is factored into the purchase price of the housing ority housing family units and senior citizen hous- units. The purchase price may be further reduced ing; the percentage of total income which the rent by the application of a site subsidy which is reco- of a tenant should be; and if he will make a state- uped from the Department. It is a matter for the ment on the matter. [11598/05] local authority to determine the level of subsidy required to make the units affordable. Minister of State at the Department of the Under both schemes, the actual sale price is a Environment, Heritage and Local Government matter for determination by the relevant local (Mr. N. Ahern): I propose to take Questions Nos. authority having regard to, inter alia, the trans- 163 and 165 together. action costs involved including legal and convey- The making and amending of rent schemes is ancing fees. the responsibility of local authorities as an integ- Where the local authority has provided a unit ral part of their housing management functions at a discount from market value under either subject to the following broad principles laid scheme and the purchaser proposes to sell the down by my Department: the rent payable should unit within 20 years of the date of purchase, the be related to income and a smaller proportion of owner must refund to the local authority a per- income should be required from low income centage of the proceeds of the sale of the unit, households; allowances should be made for that is, a clawback. The percentage of the pro- dependent children including those under 21 ceeds to be repaid will be related to the pro- years of age in full-time education; a contribution portion of discount from the market value orig- towards rent should be required from subsidiary inally received from the local authority. A full earners in the household; provision should be refund must be paid if the unit is sold within the included for the acceptance of a lower rent than first ten years of occupancy. A reduction of 10% that required under the terms of the scheme in per annum is given for each full year of occu- exceptional cases where payment of the normal 1177 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1178 rent would give rise to hardship; and appropriate Given the size of the site, which is approxi- local factors should be taken into account, includ- mately 15 hectares, and the scale and impact of ing the costs of the maintenance and management any proposed development, Cork County of the stock of rented dwellings and the adequacy Council, which is managing the project, decided of the rental income to meet such costs. to have a comprehensive feasibility assessment in The proportion of income payable as rent is a terms of strategic land use planning, financial matter for individual local authorities. However, viability, affordability and suitable infrastructural circular letter HRT 3/2002 of 6 March 2002 solutions carried out on the site. The council requested that authorities should ensure that rent appointed consultants to carry out this assess- increases do not absorb an excessive amount of ment on 19 January 2005 and it is intended that increases in income of tenants on low-incomes the assessment be completed by the end of May dependent on social welfare payments and, in 2005. Following the outcome of this assessment, particular, on old age pension payments. As a detailed design and planning will be necessary. general guideline authorities were advised that no The timeframe for the commencement of con- more than 15% of any increase in such pension struction of the housing units is difficult to predict income should be absorbed by an increase in rent. at this stage and will depend on feasibility and other studies and the planning process. My Disabled Drivers. Department will ensure that the project is pro- gressed as speedily as possible with the aim of 164. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for the having the earliest possible delivery of units. Environment, Heritage and Local Government the length of time which the review of the dis- Water and Sewerage Schemes. abled persons grant scheme has been ongoing in his Department; if consideration is being given to 167. Cecilia Keaveney asked the Minister for a speedier and more effective method of inspec- the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- tion of the locations at which the applied for ment if there is a delay on the progress of a works are to be carried out; and if he will make scheme (details supplied) in County Donegal a statement on the matter. [11568/05] being put out for tender; when works are due to start; and if he will make a statement on the Minister of State at the Department of the matter. [11605/05] Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. N. Ahern): The review of the disabled per- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Malin town sons grant scheme, which was first signalled in sewerage scheme has been approved for funding March 2003, is currently being finalised in my in my Department’s water services investment Department. On its completion, it will be possible programme 2004-2006 under the rural towns and to determine the changes, if any, required to the villages initiative. regulations governing the scheme to ensure that My Department approved Donegal County the funding available is directed at those persons Council’s preliminary report for the scheme in in greatest need of such assistance. June 2004, subject to a number of conditions, While the administration of the scheme in indi- including a review by the council of the design vidual cases, including arrangements for the population of the scheme prior to preparation of inspection of works, where necessary, is a matter contract documents. Further advancement of the for the local authority concerned, the need for a scheme is, at this point, a matter for Donegal more efficient operation of the scheme at local County Council. authority level is also being looked at in the con- text of the review. Recycling Policy. Question No. 165 answered with Question 168. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for the No. 163. Environment, Heritage and Local Government if his attention has been drawn to the failure of the Social and Affordable Housing Programme. current regulatory regime for recycling which has resulted in protracted delays in the introduction 166. Mr. Walsh asked the Minister for the of the collection of plastics as part of the house- Environment, Heritage and Local Government hold green bin collection in the Dublin area due when the 2003 affordable housing scheme in to lack of funding from industry; if he will take County Cork will commence; and if he will make this matter up with industry or alter regulations a statement on the matter. [11600/05] to ensure that such a service is provided; and if he Minister of State at the Department of the will make a statement on the matter. [11607/05] Environment, Heritage and Local Government Minister for the Environment, Heritage and (Mr. N. Ahern): I assume that the question refers Local Government (Mr. Roche): The recycling of to the progress of the housing scheme proposed post-consumer plastic beverage containers and for the site at Darrara Agricultural College in other types of plastic packaging is generally more Clonakilty that was released to the Sustaining problematic than for other packaging materials Progress affordable housing initiative by the due to the light weight to volume ratio, sorting Department of Agriculture and Food. and pre-treatment requirements, high end market 1179 Questions— 14 April 2005. Written Answers 1180

[Mr. Roche.] containers in the kerbside green bin collection specifications and the associated costs involved. services — at present provided to over 560,000 Accordingly, the recycling rate of plastic packag- households nationally and up to now confined to ing is generally lower than that for other packag- paper-board, newsprint, composite beverage car- ing materials. tons and aluminium and steel cans — offers sig- nificant potential for increased recovery of plastic The local and regional waste management containers. The inclusion of plastic containers in plans now being implemented provide for a sig- such kerbside collection services has recently nificantly increased network of bring facilities to been piloted in a couple of areas. My Department facilitate increased collection of recyclables, is at present actively engaging with local auth- including plastic bottles. Receptacles for the orities, Repak and other relevant stakeholders deposit of such containers are already in place in regarding the expanded incorporation of plastic a number of areas. The incorporation of plastic containers in the kerbside collection services.