COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE HEARING BUDGET HEARING
STATE CAPITOL MAJORITY CAUCUS ROOM HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2008, 11:30 A.M.
VOLUME II OF VI
PRESENTATION BY STATE SYSTEM OF HIGHER EDUCATION
BEFORE: HONORABLE DWIGHT EVANS, CHAIRMAN HONORABLE MARIO J. CIVERA, JR., CHAIRMAN HONORABLE STEPHEN E. BARRAR HONORABLE STEVEN W. CAPPELLI HONORABLE H. SCOTT CONKLIN HONORABLE CRAIG A. DALLY HONORABLE GORDON R. DENLINGER HONORABLE BRIAN ELLIS HONORABLE DAN B. FRANKEL HONORABLE JOHN T. GALLOWAY HONORABLE WILLIAM F. KELLER HONORABLE TIM MAHONEY HONORABLE KATHY M. MANDERINO HONORABLE FRED McILHATTAN HONORABLE DAVID R. MILLARD HONORABLE RON MILLER HONORABLE JOHN MYERS HONORABLE CHERELLE PARKER HONORABLE JOSEPH A. PETRARCA HONORABLE SCOTT A. PETRI HONORABLE SEAN M. RAMALEY 2
1 BEFORE (cont.'d): HONORABLE DAVE REED 2 HONORABLE DOUGLAS G. REICHLEY HONORABLE DANTE SANTONI, JR. 3 HONORABLE MARIO M. SCAVELLO HONORABLE JOSHUA D. SHAPIRO 4 HONORABLE JOHN SIPTROTH HONORABLE MATTHEW SMITH 5 HONORABLE KATIE TRUE HONORABLE GREGORY S. VITALI 6 HONORABLE DON WALKO HONORABLE JAKE WHEATLEY, JR. 7
8 ALSO PRESENT: MIRIAM FOX 9 EDWARD NOLAN
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11 JEAN M. DAVIS, REPORTER NOTARY PUBLIC 12
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1 I N D E X
2 TESTIFIERS
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4 NAMES PAGE
5 DR. PETER H. GARLAND 4
6 STUDENT JOSEPH M. PELTZER 4
7 DR. ANGELO ARMENTI, JR. 27
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1 CHAIRMAN EVANS: We will now reconvene the
2 House Appropriations Committee meeting.
3 Today we have two individuals on the panel.
4 We have Peter Garland, who is representing the
5 Chancellor of the State System of Higher Education,
6 and then we have a guest who is a student at
7 Shippensburg University. He is here to give his
8 reaction.
9 Peter, we go right to the questions. Please
10 introduce yourself, and we'll have our guest
11 introduce himself.
12 DR. GARLAND: Peter Garland, Executive
13 Vice Chancellor for the State System of Higher
14 Education.
15 STUDENT PELTZER: My name is Joe Peltzer.
16 I'm a senior at Shippensburg University.
17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Peter, the issues that I
18 raise are questions around teacher education. Give
19 me a little sense of the whole element the Governor
20 talks about, that we need good teachers in our
21 classrooms. Can you talk a little bit about what
22 is going on with teacher education in the State
23 System?
24 DR. GARLAND: Our universities prepare about
25 40 percent of the new teachers in Pennsylvania, and 5
1 we take that job very seriously.
2 We are certainly concerned in terms of the
3 quality of education for all students in the
4 Commonwealth and believe that our programs for
5 preparing teachers do the best they can in terms
6 of preparing them for the realities of the
7 classroom.
8 A current issue that we're dealing with in
9 terms of teacher education, and I know one that
10 certainly has had interest among the members of the
11 General Assembly, is the changes in the teacher
12 education policies by the State Board of Education,
13 which are going to provide us an opportunity to
14 fundamentally change the ways in which we prepare
15 teachers to meet -- I think better -- the demands of
16 the classroom.
17 We will be looking at changing most of those
18 programs over the next year or so. It's a major
19 challenge for our universities and will entail a
20 great deal of faculty time and energy in doing that.
21 But I think those are strong changes that will enable
22 the teachers coming out to even better address the
23 needs of students in our classrooms throughout
24 Pennsylvania.
25 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I'd like to introduce 6
1 another person, if he would like to move to the
2 table, President Armenti from California University
3 of Pennsylvania. He's also here. Do you want to
4 join them at the table, too? You can sit right
5 there.
6 Joe, let me ask you a question since you're
7 there, to give me, from your perspective, a little
8 reaction from a student's perspective of what is
9 taking place among the State System, issues like
10 tuition, things of that nature. Tell me how you see
11 it from your perspective.
12 STUDENT PELTZER: I still believe that the
13 State System provides an incredible quality education
14 to the students. It's a decision that I made to
15 attend the State System institution that I would not
16 have changed after going through 4 years of education
17 there.
18 I think that tuition is incredibly
19 affordable. Again, I think that with the changes
20 that our campuses are undergoing through facilities,
21 additional academic programs, and such, I'm firmly
22 behind what the State System has been doing.
23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Chairman Mario Civera.
24 CHAIRMAN CIVERA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 Basically what I wanted to ask was what we 7
1 asked of the State-relateds with the situation with
2 the money market and the submortgage market. How is
3 the State System preparing for this situation with
4 the loans and the grants? You know, could you give
5 us some idea?
6 DR. GARLAND: Sure. As my colleagues for
7 the State-related universities I think mentioned, all
8 of us were participating in a summit held by PHEAA
9 last week to begin to address this issue.
10 It's certainly one that I don't think anyone
11 knows yet what the actual outcome is going to be, but
12 one that we are incredibly worried about in terms of
13 our students having access to the dollars they might
14 need to afford their education.
15 The continuing crunch in the credit market
16 certainly is affecting PHEAA's ability to enter the
17 loan market and create the funds that are necessary
18 for students to borrow. That was the impetus for
19 that summit.
20 I think there are other dimensions of it in
21 terms of knowing how many of our students and their
22 families use home-equity loans, use various other
23 credit vehicles to help cover the cost.
24 What we know to date is the fact that there
25 is instability and concern in the credit markets 8
1 about credit. We don't necessarily know how that's
2 going to affect the availability of loans coming into
3 the future. It's something that all of us I think
4 are going to have to monitor very carefully.
5 Our students, certainly like the students at
6 all colleges and universities, rely on a variety of
7 financial aid packages to make certain that they have
8 what they need to afford.
9 Loans are certainly a critical part of that.
10 The majority of our students are in the Stafford
11 Loan, subsidized and nonsubsidized. That's our
12 largest portion, and that program is not going to be
13 affected by the current issues. But those who need
14 to borrow additional dollars in Plus Loans and other
15 areas, that gets a little bit more of a concern for
16 us.
17 Like my colleagues in higher education, we
18 will be monitoring that carefully and see what we can
19 do.
20 CHAIRMAN CIVERA: Do you believe that there
21 could be a drop off of the student population as far
22 as attendance in the State System with this?
23 If the schools are not really prepared, you
24 know, your financial office is not really prepared to
25 give alternatives, I mean, what do you foresee with 9
1 this? Because I don't see this money market moving
2 in the direction where it's going to clear up in the
3 next 2 years and in some type of fashion where we
4 could be helping out, like we were normally doing
5 before.
6 DR. GARLAND: Sure. I think that will
7 happen, what my best guess is that will happen is
8 that, first, students and families will look to other
9 credit markets, other vehicles, other loan mechanisms
10 that may not be as attractive in terms of rate, but
11 will look to some of those first.
12 I believe, depending on what people can
13 afford in terms of their ability to gain loans in
14 that market, there may be some who have to move to
15 lower-cost institutions, particularly for those
16 that are just entering college. That may mean that
17 more move to system universities or community
18 colleges.
19 For those that are currently enrolled,
20 particularly those that are entering their junior and
21 senior years, when they've truly made that commitment
22 to the university and need to get done, that's the
23 stress point, I think, that we don't know yet what
24 that's going to cause in terms of students perhaps
25 having to drop out for a semester, or in many cases, 10
1 to drop down in the number of credits that they take
2 and seek other employment to continue to be able to
3 afford that education.
4 CHAIRMAN CIVERA: Thank you.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Representative Scott
6 Conklin, please.
7 REPRESENTATIVE CONKLIN: Thank you,
8 Mr. Chairman.
9 Just a quick question.
10 Recently I had some folks from higher
11 education come to me with a concern they have and
12 that the gentleman from Temple University talked
13 about a little bit, that we're going to begin to lose
14 a lot of our professors and higher faculty teaching
15 on our universities in Pennsylvania. And you couple
16 that with now I understand that States such as New
17 York and other States are giving incentives that will
18 try to actually pull our more seasoned professors out
19 of the State.
20 Is this as big as what it sounds, and is
21 there anything that we can do to try to stop this so
22 we still have that quality professor, that quality
23 faculty member, within the State System?
24 DR. GARLAND: Sure.
25 First of all, understand that the market, 11
1 the labor market for faculty, is truly a national
2 market and that there are lots of systems of higher
3 education and individual public and private
4 universities that are adding to their faculty every
5 year. So part of this is, we're used to a certain
6 level of competition in the market in terms of
7 high-quality faculty.
8 I think for those faculty who are nearing
9 the end of their faculty careers, I think there's
10 less of a press for those individuals to move on.
11 But I think we do need to be concerned, and I think
12 we always have been in higher education, about those
13 critical knit career faculty that are certainly
14 incredibly productive individuals that may be looking
15 for other opportunities that may be out there, and if
16 there clearly are others picking and selecting, that
17 could cause issues for us.
18 We believe in the State System that we have
19 a very competitive salary and benefit package and
20 that it has historically sustained us in terms of
21 attracting and retaining high-quality faculty.
22 I think our greater concern is, as we look
23 at our projections out, that about 38 percent of our
24 faculty are over the age of 55. So retirement is
25 probably going to be more of a concern for us and our 12
1 ability to attract high quality, young facility as we
2 have traditionally done. That's what we're going to
3 be focusing on.
4 REPRESENTATIVE CONKLIN: Thank you.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Representative Fred
6 McIlhattan.
7 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Thank you,
8 Mr. Chairman.
9 Dr. Garland, I certainly hope you will relay
10 to the Chancellor our thank you for the tremendous
11 job that she has done. She has made tough decisions,
12 and I think she has put the State System of Higher
13 Education on a good plane. We certainly appreciate
14 the work that she has done, and I hope you'll let her
15 know that since she can't be here today to hear that.
16 DR. GARLAND: Sure; definitely.
17 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: The enrollment
18 in the State System of Higher Education, what is the
19 enrollment now in the total system?
20 DR. GARLAND: It's a little bit over 110,000
21 students.
22 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Okay. How many
23 of those students are Pennsylvania students?
24 DR. GARLAND: About 90 percent of our
25 students are Pennsylvania residents. 13
1 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Okay. I know
2 that we used to have a pretty high number of
3 graduates that stayed in Pennsylvania. Are we still
4 in a pretty high figure in that?
5 DR. GARLAND: We're pretty much where we've
6 always been. About four out of five, or 80 percent,
7 of students upon completing their studies,
8 undergraduate students, choose to remain in
9 Pennsylvania for their first job, or for some
10 students, for their graduate study.
11 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Okay.
12 The faculty situation, we always have the
13 adjunct faculty versus full time. There's always
14 that discussion and debate. Where are we? Are we
15 tipping the scale, and which way? I'm just
16 curious.
17 DR. GARLAND: We think we have a pretty
18 good balance point on that. About 82 percent of
19 our faculty are tenured or tenured faculty full
20 time.
21 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: 82 percent?
22 Okay.
23 DR. GARLAND: About 18 percent are temporary
24 or part-time faculty, and that compares against some
25 of the national debate that I'm sure you've been 14
1 hearing about, where upwards of 50 percent of all
2 faculty are part-time faculty. And that is, in our
3 estimation, in terms of what we want to provide to
4 our students, that's clearly too many on the
5 part-time faculty.
6 But there's always need for some part-time
7 or temporary faculty to fill critical needs or with
8 particular professional expertises that add to the
9 quality of the academic programs. So we think we've
10 got a pretty good balance point on that.
11 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: And the courses
12 of studies in our State System universities, is there
13 a certain course that's a main leader? Is it still
14 education or is it business or is it liberal arts?
15 What is the main thing that most students enter for a
16 curriculum?
17 DR. GARLAND: You hit it, Representative
18 McIlhattan. Education still remains our strongest
19 area, but we've had over the years increasing
20 enrollments in terms of business.
21 We are particularly proud of the fact that
22 over the past several years, we have increased the
23 number of students majoring in science and
24 science-related fields. That's up to almost 18,000
25 students majoring in that area. 15
1 We've also increased the number of health
2 science and health occupation programs and have
3 actually increased the number of nursing graduates by
4 50 percent.
5 So while education remains our strong suit
6 and a point of pride for us, we've also developed
7 strong programs, accredited programs, in a variety of
8 areas that are in themselves growing.
9 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Okay.
10 One final question, and it's probably one of
11 the big ones.
12 As I looked over your proposal, you were
13 looking at a 5-percent increase. Right now we're at
14 3, and we'll probably be in that category.
15 I guess two questions. Number one, what
16 does that mean for tuition for this year? And over
17 the last, let's say 5 years, what's the rate of
18 increase we've had or how much have we increased
19 tuition percentage-wise?
20 DR. GARLAND: If it stays at the Governor's
21 proposed level at a 3-percent increase, in order to
22 balance the budget that we had projected in October,
23 it would take a 3.5-percent tuition increase, which
24 is about $181.
25 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: $181. Okay. 16
1 DR. GARLAND: Over the previous 5 years, we
2 have raised our tuition a total of $799. In the past
3 3 years, that tuition increase has been at or below
4 the rate of inflation.
5 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Okay.
6 DR. GARLAND: Now, we think we've done a
7 pretty good job based on strong appropriations from
8 this body along with prudent fiscal management,
9 starting with the Board and the Chancellor through
10 the university Presidents to try to make certain that
11 we have quality programs at the same time that we
12 keep the tuition rates as low as possible so that
13 students can afford us.
14 I think we've been able to balance that
15 pretty well.
16 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Yeah, I think
17 you have, too, and I commend you for that.
18 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
19 Thank you, Peter.
20 DR. GARLAND: Thank you.
21 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you.
22 Joe, since you're supposed to give the
23 student's perspective, I guess we should ask you,
24 what do you think of the retention rate of the
25 students in Pennsylvania? Do you intend to stay in 17
1 Pennsylvania? And give us just how PHEAA plays a
2 role in student financing of their education.
3 STUDENT PELTZER: Sure.
4 Of course, PHEAA plays an incredible role in
5 financing student education. I know that there's
6 many of my friends and people that I talked to that
7 would not be in higher education if it were not for
8 the assistance that they receive.
9 As far as staying in Pennsylvania, if I plan
10 on staying in Pennsylvania, I'm all over the place
11 right now. I'm looking at graduate schools. I'm
12 looking at jobs. I'm looking at internships. But
13 I do plan on residing in Pennsylvania in the
14 future.
15 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you.
16 Representative John Siptroth.
17 REPRESENTATIVE SIPTROTH: Thank you very
18 much, Mr. Chairman.
19 Thank you, Dr. Garland, for being here on
20 behalf of the Chancellor today.
21 Just a couple of questions. You talked real
22 briefly regarding the teachers, the curriculum
23 changes and teachers with Chapter 49-2, which was an
24 unfunded mandate from the State.
25 What impact, financial impact, do you think 18
1 that that has regarding each State System out there
2 today? My Acting President at East Stroudsburg
3 University has indicated that $25,000 would help with
4 that mandate of nine additional special education
5 credits and three in English.
6 So if you could just expound on that a
7 little bit.
8 DR. GARLAND: Sure.
9 The changes that are going through in terms
10 of Chapter 49-2 are going to be dramatic changes in
11 terms of how we prepare teachers, and that's going to
12 take a lot of time for particularly faculty to
13 redesign courses and programs.
14 I don't know if I can come up with a
15 specific dollar amount. I may have a better idea;
16 we're meeting with the Deans of arts and sciences
17 education as well as university Provosts on Friday to
18 try to talk through some of the issues and what we
19 need to do in terms of working with our faculty to
20 move this through in the next year.
21 Clearly, part of any job of a college or
22 university is to look at the market and how the
23 market demands are changing the ways in which they
24 need to prepare teachers. So certainly in all
25 different academic programs, we look very carefully 19
1 at continuing to update and change those to meet that
2 market.
3 This one is a bit more dramatic in terms
4 of the nature of what it's requiring. But we
5 certainly support the changes, and we think they will
6 make a great benefit for our students in the
7 classroom.
8 But I will be happy to get back to you with
9 a better estimate of what that's going to take in
10 terms of release time for faculty, summer school,
11 summer work, to be able to be prepped for that, and
12 then moving its way through curriculum committees.
13 I'd be happy to get back to you with that.
14 REPRESENTATIVE SIPTROTH: Okay. Just a
15 couple follow-up questions.
16 You had mentioned that the current
17 part-time, temporary professorships is at 18 percent?
18 Is that correct?
19 DR. GARLAND: Yes.
20 REPRESENTATIVE SIPTROTH: And you indicated
21 that that's below the norm and you're somewhat
22 pleased with that, but what about the other
23 professors? Because these part-timers, temporaries,
24 may not be holding office hours, does that put an
25 additional strain on those individuals that are 20
1 full-time tenured individuals for the university
2 system?
3 DR. GARLAND: I think if you look at
4 part-time faculty around the country, typically one
5 of the complaints is that they are marginalized in
6 terms of the operations of the university in terms of
7 having access to appropriate office hours, their
8 ability to engage in curricular design, the ability
9 to advise and work with students and that kind of
10 thing. I think we work very carefully with our
11 faculty that are part time and particularly those
12 that are the full-time temporary faculty.
13 First of all, our collective bargaining
14 agreement requires a certain rate of pay, so these
15 are not necessarily individuals that are brought in
16 at substandard wages. They are paid on scale with
17 other faculty. We provide access to health benefits.
18 We provide university resources so that they can be
19 successful, because we want them to be a critical
20 part of the success of our students and of our
21 universities.
22 There are typically, as one does with, as we
23 just mentioned, revising education courses and
24 programs, it's typically going to be the full-time,
25 tenured track faculty who are most engaged in that 21
1 process and clearly will fall more to their shoulders
2 in those kinds of things than it would to temporary
3 or part-time faculty.
4 There are some stress points, but on the
5 other hand, I think we gained some incredible
6 knowledge and skills from individuals that come from
7 their professional fields and add to the quality of
8 our programs. So like so many things in life, it's a
9 trade-off.
10 REPRESENTATIVE SIPTROTH: Would a better
11 target be 10 percent, do you think, rather than
12 18 percent?
13 DR. GARLAND: We could probably have an
14 interesting debate from now until tomorrow in terms
15 of that with different perspectives.
16 I think part of it is the ebb and flow of
17 faculty as they come and go from the university and
18 the need to meet student demands for courses that
19 cause immediate needs to open up additional sections,
20 so sometimes that's how we hire the part-time
21 faculty. In other cases, we want to make certain we
22 have, in professional fields, we have active
23 professionals as part of the instructional faculty of
24 our universities, to add that dimension to their
25 preparation. 22
1 I'm not certain there is a magic point with
2 that one. I think it's a point where we feel, when
3 we're fairly comfortable with that level, it gives us
4 the kinds of individuals we want in there, and that
5 as primarily teaching institutions, we'd like to
6 assure our students, our parents, that when their
7 students come to our campus, that they are going to
8 be taught largely by full-time, regular faculty who
9 are fully engaged with that university, not by
10 graduate assistants and not in any large number by
11 part-time or temporary faculty.
12 REPRESENTATIVE SIPTROTH: Okay.
13 One other thing that I would like to see, so
14 that the State System is more competitive with the
15 privates and the preferreds, is a better marketing
16 and packaging display so that potential students have
17 all the knowledge that they can possibly absorb about
18 the State System and get a good quality education at
19 a lesser cost than a lot of the privates and the
20 preferreds, and I think that that would be a target
21 that I would like to see the State System get
22 involved in.
23 DR. GARLAND: Certainly, and anything you
24 can do to suggest that helps us get the word out
25 about the incredible value we offer, we'd be happy 23
1 with that. Thank you.
2 REPRESENTATIVE SIPTROTH: And one other
3 thing very quickly.
4 I thank you all for the cooperation with the
5 community colleges, that now the majority of the
6 courses are creditable through the State System as
7 well, and I'm glad to see that happen. Thank you
8 very much.
9 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 DR. GARLAND: Thank you. And if I could
11 offer a comment on that one, because I think it's a
12 point of pride in the work that our system
13 universities, their faculty and administrators, as
14 well as community colleges have done, is that under
15 the legislation that requires 30 credits or
16 foundation credits, the typical 100 and 200 level
17 courses that individuals in their freshman/sophomore
18 years take, we've worked diligently with the
19 Department of Education and with the community
20 colleges, and to date, there are about 28,000 courses
21 that are now equivalent and now the equivalencies
22 have clearly been established for those courses. And
23 hopefully in the next couple of months through some
24 on-site Web delivery, we'll be able to make that a
25 very easy process for students, parents, transfer 24
1 counselors, faculty, advisors, to see what's in that
2 mix.
3 I think it will be a great boon to students
4 throughout Pennsylvania. Thank you.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Representative
6 Gordon Denlinger.
7 REPRESENTATIVE DENLINGER: Thank you,
8 Mr. Chairman.
9 Good morning.
10 DR. GARLAND: Good morning.
11 REPRESENTATIVE DENLINGER: I'd like to move
12 over to another topic -- campus safety and security
13 -- and obviously we're all kind of focused on that
14 with some tragedies that happened at Virginia Tech
15 and Northern Illinois University.
16 I'm wondering what, from a policy
17 standpoint, has the system done to ensure student
18 safety and security, and then I'm particularly
19 interested in what your policies are with regard to
20 handguns, guns, on campus.
21 I thought it was an interesting reaction
22 that in the aftermath of those tragedies, there was a
23 push in some corners to move toward a gun-free-zone
24 approach on campuses. But if you sit down and think
25 through the issue, the only force that could stop a 25
1 student who is willing to take the lives of other
2 fellow students is an equivalent force, be that in
3 the hands of armed patrol officers, security
4 officials, the correct people, the people who should
5 be administering that.
6 What is the policy of the State System? Can
7 you speak to that for a minute?
8 DR. GARLAND: Sure. Let me give you some
9 background, and then I might turn to President
10 Armenti and Mr. Peltzer here to offer their
11 perspectives, being on campus every day.
12 REPRESENTATIVE DENLINGER: Sure.
13 DR. GARLAND: First of all, soon after the
14 tragic events at Virginia Tech, the Board of
15 Governors of the State System of Higher Education
16 formed a task force to begin looking at the multiple
17 dimensions in terms of enabling our campuses to be
18 even more safe and secure than they already were,
19 and we certainly convened a summit of university
20 leaders to address these kinds of issues on the
21 campuses.
22 Individually and collectively, our campuses
23 have in place and are continually updating, and this
24 certainly has raised the stakes for their emergency
25 operations plans. We had received, prior to even the 26
1 events at Virginia Tech, a major Federal grant to
2 look at university disasters and how our universities
3 can be better prepared to deal with the whole range
4 of issues that may hit them. We're about halfway
5 through that grant program, and I think it's adding
6 value to our ability to respond to any kind of
7 disaster.
8 All of our campuses at this point have a
9 variety of communications strategies that they can
10 use in an unfortunate incident. Certainly the
11 individuals at Northern Illinois and their ability to
12 get the message out and to respond with armed police
13 and that kind of thing sets a new standard for all of
14 us in terms of the very few minutes it took to
15 respond to that situation with the multilayer
16 communication strategy -- through text messaging,
17 through e-mail, through voice mail, PA announcements,
18 and the like.
19 And certainly all of our campuses, now all
20 of our campus police forces are armed, and there's
21 certainly ongoing training to deal with situations
22 unfortunately like Northern Illinois or Virginia
23 Tech. That's all part of the mix and one that we
24 take very seriously from a safety and security
25 standpoint. 27
1 And I might turn to Dr. Armenti to comment
2 briefly on his experience at California.
3 DR. ARMENTI: We work very hard to plan for
4 unexpected and tragic events, and we do it in desktop
5 examples. We practice responding to different kinds
6 of situations.
7 We don't currently ban weapons from the
8 campus. We don't screen individuals as they come on
9 to the campus. So that means that we have to accept
10 the possibility that there are people walking around
11 that are armed.
12 We find that a good way to deal with the
13 situation is to make it clear to everyone on campus
14 that we need information. We need to know what's
15 going on. We need to know if a person is exhibiting
16 peculiar behavior, for example, or has experienced a
17 sudden change in their demeanor, and we follow up.
18 That by no means suggests that any system we
19 might put in place is 100-percent foolproof, because
20 until we actually prevent guns from coming on to
21 campus, I think we will always have an element of
22 risk.
23 The communications strategies I think help
24 very, very much. The text messaging, for example,
25 makes it possible to alert people immediately if 28
1 there is a problem.
2 STUDENT PELTZER: From a student's
3 standpoint, I can assure you that safety on campus
4 has quickly become one of the top issues and
5 concerns, especially following Virginia Tech.
6 Immediately following Virginia Tech, as a
7 campus leader, I was involved in numerous
8 conversations with administrators, faculty, and
9 staff, again looking at the multilayered approach,
10 and we all quickly agreed that there's just not one
11 simple way to tackle safety on campus and that there
12 are many different directions that we would need to
13 take in the future to ensure that the students are as
14 safe as possible.
15 I think it's important that the universities
16 continue to take the proactive approach and really
17 try to cover all bases. But the sad truth is that it
18 comes down to a situation such as NIU or Virginia
19 Tech to really see how that system will work.
20 But I'm very encouraged by the work that the
21 universities have done within the State System to try
22 and address the needs and the concerns of the
23 students on campus as far as safety is concerned.
24 REPRESENTATIVE DENLINGER: Very good.
25 And one follow-up for Dr. Garland, if I may. 29
1 As you work with the System universities, do
2 we every year find some number of students falling
3 into that troubled realm of potentially becoming
4 violent? Is there some number that you could put on
5 that for me?
6 DR. GARLAND: I can't really put a number on
7 that one, but I think it is something that, obviously
8 with 110,000 students who are broadly representative
9 of society, that issues and problems are going to
10 emerge.
11 One is, certainly for our universities and
12 nationally, the ability to really get much better at
13 what is called threat assessment -- just individuals,
14 as Dr. Armenti was talking about, of monitoring the
15 nuances of behaviors in students and some of those
16 changes, and doing that and doing that effectively is
17 a proactive stance. It takes a lot of careful
18 attention by faculty, administrators, support staff,
19 fellow students, the whole mix on that one.
20 And I think that's one of the things that
21 we're learning most from these experiences, is the
22 fact that individuals were demonstrating that
23 something was going wrong, and that the sooner we can
24 begin to address that and intervene with those
25 students, the better off for everybody, particularly 30
1 them.
2 REPRESENTATIVE DENLINGER: Absolutely.
3 Thank you very much.
4 DR. GARLAND: Thank you.
5 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Representative Jake
6 Wheatley.
7 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Thank you,
8 Mr. Chairman.
9 Good afternoon to our panel.
10 I have another frame of questions, but the
11 prior speaker just brought to mind something that I
12 think is at least critical to me and I think is
13 critical to a lot of parents who send their children
14 away to campuses.
15 Now, am I to understand that from your
16 response, I believe you said the State System does
17 not currently ban guns from campuses, right? Is that
18 what you said?
19 DR. GARLAND: I think most universities have
20 a policy that says that there should be no guns on
21 campuses. I think Dr. Armenti, he can certainly
22 speak on this issue.
23 I think I was speaking to the issue that we
24 don't screen each individual as they come on campus,
25 but universities have policies about weapons being on 31
1 campus. And in some cases, for those particularly
2 that are going off to hunt or that kind of thing,
3 they typically register those weapons and store them
4 with campus police services.
5 So we do not knowingly permit students,
6 faculty, administrators, anyone on campus to carry
7 weapons onto that campus. We try to educate and
8 inform, and certainly if we have any suspicions, we
9 certainly address those kinds of things so that we
10 can be assured as possible without -- and I've heard
11 other university Presidents around the country say
12 that as open campuses where we actively engage the
13 community and invite the community in, we don't have
14 the fences and the screening and the metal detectors
15 for everyone that comes on campus, but we certainly
16 work very aggressively to make certain that everyone
17 understands that as a learning community, no students
18 should have weapons. There should not be weapons on
19 campus unless they are officially registered and
20 stored with campus police services.
21 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Okay, because when
22 I heard that, I was a little concerned that we were
23 not, you know, making sure that as a policy, as a
24 matter of policy, that we want our campuses to be as
25 safe as possible. 32
1 DR. GARLAND: Absolutely.
2 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: And if in fact --
3 I mean, I don't know why a student would need to have
4 a weapon on campus and registered with the
5 department, but if in fact you are going to have a
6 weapon on campus, that you need it to be registered.
7 That would be very concerning to me as a parent, and
8 I'm sure to many other parents, to know that our
9 campuses weren't functioning in that manner, so I'm
10 glad to hear that we do have some type of policy
11 relating to that.
12 DR. GARLAND: Yes.
13 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: And still at a
14 later time I would like to understand why we would
15 even allow someone to bring a weapon to campus and
16 register it when we are coming to campus to engage
17 in, I think, mental abilities and not in sporting
18 activities.
19 DR. GARLAND: Sure, and if I can clarify
20 that point.
21 It's simply an accommodation to individuals,
22 and I would say more as a point of transit as they
23 might move from the campus to join family in
24 hunting, which is an important aspect of Pennsylvania
25 life. 33
1 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: All right.
2 Now to my other types of questions, because
3 it relates to -- I asked the State-relateds when they
4 were here, and I think we had some conversations
5 about this topic as well, I would like for you to
6 help me and the rest of the General Assembly and the
7 Administration figure out a way to really move to a
8 coordinated effort of how we fund and support
9 education. I'm talking about education from birth
10 till death, really, because we all know learning is a
11 lifelong experience.
12 DR. GARLAND: Yes.
13 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: And currently we
14 have a very unique system or quasi system in
15 Pennsylvania where we have wonderful institutions in
16 our private realm, we have wonderful State schools,
17 and we have quasi State schools or State-related
18 schools, and I'm not clear how they all function
19 together. I know we fund them to various degrees,
20 but I'm not sure how they all function together. And
21 then I'm not sure how that higher education realm
22 functions with our investment in pre-K, early
23 childhood, and basic ed in the State.
24 So help me begin to understand, from your
25 perspective, how can we as a State begin to 34
1 coordinate our efforts better?
2 DR. GARLAND: Sure, and we have had this
3 conversation directly on some of these issues.
4 I think the first and most important step in
5 that is to really define the expectations. What are
6 the Commonwealth's expectations for its higher
7 education system? What is it we expect out of them
8 in terms of education, in terms of research, in terms
9 of training and retaining workers to have a clear set
10 of expectations of what we want higher education to
11 do for the Commonwealth, particularly for its
12 citizens and for its economy? I think that's a
13 critical place to start with that.
14 Second, in carrying forward the theme of
15 expectations, I think in tying that into the K-12
16 system, we need to be very clear about, what are our
17 expectations for students? What is it that we know
18 that they need to be able to do and the skills and
19 knowledge they need to be able to master for them to
20 be successful in their career and on into college?
21 I think the State Board of Education in its
22 academic standards has defined a clear set of
23 academic expectations for students. I think now we
24 need to take that a bit further and be much clearer
25 about, what are the expectations as they enter 35
1 college in terms of the specific knowledge and skills
2 they have and that we know definitively that they
3 have achieved those when they have left the high
4 school environment?
5 And from that, then I think at every grade
6 level we have expectations, and when students fall
7 off the track to meet those expectations, we need to
8 provide the remedial and other instructional
9 interventions to get them back on track so that they
10 are successful.
11 But I think it really comes from framing out
12 clearly what our expectations are, and then I think
13 the dollars and the rest of the system governance and
14 management issues flow from that clear set of
15 expectations.
16 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Thank you.
17 And my question to Joe: Joe, are you from
18 Pennsylvania originally?
19 STUDENT PELTZER: Yes; I am.
20 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: What part?
21 STUDENT PELTZER: Bucks County.
22 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Bucks County.
23 And from your perspective, how do you think
24 a coordinated effort should look? I mean, you're in
25 what year of college right now? 36
1 STUDENT PELTZER: I'm a senior.
2 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: You're a senior,
3 so you're finishing up 4 years at Cal U, and you've
4 come, I'm assuming, out of a basic educational system
5 that prepared you well. So how would you see this
6 picture of coordinating efforts between what we're
7 doing as a funding mechanism?
8 STUDENT PELTZER: That's a good question.
9 I'm actually at Shippensburg University.
10 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Oh, you're at
11 Shippensburg?
12 STUDENT PELTZER: Yeah; I'm at Shippensburg.
13 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. I
14 had the wrong information. I'm sorry.
15 STUDENT PELTZER: That's fine.
16 I really see it as --
17 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Shippensburg is a
18 fine institution as well. Cal U is closer to me, but
19 it's all right.
20 STUDENT PELTZER: I really do see the joint
21 effort as working together to address the needs of
22 the students coming out of the K through 12 system in
23 the Commonwealth.
24 I think that there are certain programs that
25 really push students to consider continuous education 37
1 even after the undergraduate level to the graduate
2 level, and I would just hope that the joint effort
3 really does address the needs of the students in
4 addressing the skills and abilities and the knowledge
5 that is necessary to really take the step once you
6 leave higher education and enter the workforce,
7 wherever it may be.
8 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: And if I can,
9 Mr. Chair, one final follow-up question.
10 And this is again talking to Joe, because I
11 want to take this opportunity, I'm going to commend
12 the Chairman and his staff for looking at trying to
13 bring students and regular folk to be a part of our
14 budget hearings. We don't necessarily get that
15 opportunity every year, and again, we're having
16 students here from Seton Hill. I think it's an
17 opportunity for us to hear from young people around
18 what really makes the decision or helps them make
19 their decision if they're going to stay here and
20 where they decide to go to college and where they
21 will decide to start making a life for themselves.
22 So you earlier had mentioned, you're not
23 sure; you're looking at a lot of options about where
24 you will go. What will be some of the things that
25 you will look at as an indicator if you will stay in 38
1 Pennsylvania or not? What are those decision things
2 that you will take into account, and where do you
3 think our strengths lie and where do you think the
4 challenges for this Commonwealth lie?
5 STUDENT PELTZER: Sure. I think the
6 strengths that the universities in Pennsylvania and
7 especially the universities in the State System have
8 is the size, the affordability, and the quality.
9 One of the things that I'm extremely proud
10 of is that, I'm going to graduate from Shippensburg
11 University. It was affordable. And when I was
12 entering into college, I guess someone made the
13 comment to me that it was the Harvard of State
14 schools or it was like the Harvard of Pennsylvania,
15 and that just really has been true to me. It's been
16 an incredible education. It's been an incredible
17 time.
18 I think that one of the things, looking
19 forward, looking at the universities I'm going to
20 interview at for graduate school, is really the
21 academic offerings. Every program is different in
22 the way that it's delivered, and I'm really looking
23 for something to really balance out the experience
24 I've had.
25 I've had an experience -- the high school I 39
1 came from, I graduated with 78 other students. I
2 talked to people that have graduated with 500 plus,
3 even more. What I'm really looking for, I'm at a
4 medium-sized school with 6,500 undergrads, and I kind
5 of want to get the experience of a larger school and
6 a different environment.
7 And it's not that Pennsylvania doesn't offer
8 that. As I said, I'm just really trying to spread my
9 wings and look around. But I do think that what
10 Pennsylvania has to offer is definitely something to
11 be proud of.
12 REPRESENTATIVE WHEATLEY: Well, thank you
13 for your presence here.
14 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 And I will just put a plug in for Pitt. You
16 should really look at Pitt. Thank you.
17 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Just so the members
18 know, we have a full schedule this afternoon. We
19 will start at 1 o'clock no matter what time we get
20 done here, so the length of your questions directly
21 impacts the amount of time you have to eat lunch, all
22 right?
23 Representative Scavello.
24 REPRESENTATIVE SCAVELLO: You know, why did
25 I know I'd be the next questioner here, especially 40
1 after Representative Wheatley.
2 I just, you know, thank the panel for being
3 here.
4 And, Dr. Garland, just to let everyone here
5 know, the Cadillac of schools is in my district, East
6 Stroudsburg University. It's unbelievable what the
7 school does in the community, and especially with,
8 they have an incubator system there where they start
9 businesses right off campus there, students are
10 involved, and those businesses grow and continue to
11 grow in the county and especially in the borough.
12 To this point, to this point, you see East
13 Stroudsburg University graduates, more of those
14 graduates stay locally, stay within the county, than
15 any of the other school systems. And I'm sure you're
16 aware of that, right? East Stroudsburg, we graduate
17 our students and they stay locally, which is great to
18 see.
19 Representative Siptroth pretty much covered
20 most of my questions, but I just want to go back to
21 Chapter 49-2.
22 DR. GARLAND: Okay.
23 REPRESENTATIVE SCAVELLO: You know, it's an
24 unfunded mandate. We can't continue to do that. And
25 to me, investing in the professors, to give them what 41
1 they need, the tools that they need, it is only going
2 to bring out a better product at the end.
3 We've got a great staff down there. Faculty
4 does a great job in the community. And, you know,
5 Dr. Borland, who sent me the letter as well, really
6 feels that that's an important issue, and I'd like to
7 see that helped as well.
8 And frankly, I just want you to know that I
9 support your whole budget. I think that, you know,
10 money in education, especially in the State System,
11 is money well spent.
12 Thank you very much.
13 DR. GARLAND: Thank you.
14 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you.
15 Representative Dally.
16 REPRESENTATIVE DALLY: Thank you,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 Good afternoon.
19 DR. GARLAND: Good afternoon.
20 REPRESENTATIVE DALLY: Just a real quick
21 question. The Governor's executive budget mentions
22 the transfer and articulation agreements that exist
23 between the State System, our universities, and the
24 State community colleges.
25 Now that these agreements are in place and 42
1 enforced, I'd just like to hear how they're working
2 for your institutions.
3 DR. GARLAND: Sure.
4 The university has been working for some
5 time in developing stronger relationships with
6 community colleges and increasing the opportunities
7 for students to start at a community college and
8 complete their education at one of our universities.
9 Over the past 5 years, the number of
10 community college transfers has grown by 150 percent.
11 So clearly the work that we've been doing in this
12 area is making a difference. The newer transfer
13 and articulation legislation that establishes the
14 30 foundation credits will only get us further in
15 that process with a student's ability to be able to
16 move on.
17 In the current year, our universities have
18 signed an additional 77 program-to-program
19 articulation agreements. Those, to me, are the most
20 important ones, because they clearly, sitting down
21 together with the faculty and administrators at
22 community colleges in a program as well as at the
23 university, define the pathway and the course of
24 study so that students know exactly what they need to
25 take. There are no questions about what transfers. 43
1 It moves on into the baccalaureate degree program,
2 meets accreditation standards in terms of any of
3 those courses that flow through, and students clearly
4 have the map for the future that they need to know
5 that they're making a strong choice and that no
6 credits will be lost in that process.
7 More and more, there's a growing each year.
8 Several of our universities have been working with
9 community colleges to locate the completion of the
10 final 2 years of college directly on the community
11 college campuses. So increasingly, students will be
12 able to access programs.
13 I know Dr. Armenti has one, and he can talk
14 about it here in a minute. So students who are
15 familiar with attending that campus, going there,
16 will be able to complete their degrees and continue
17 to move on with their lives.
18 All of that, I think, is going to be
19 incredibly helpful, not just for the students but I
20 think for the economy of Pennsylvania to make that
21 work.
22 DR. ARMENTI: Just one example that you may
23 find interesting, we have a partnership with the
24 Community College of Allegheny County. They offer
25 the associate degree in nursing; we do not. We offer 44
1 a completion degree, years 3 and 4 for the BSN.
2 We have an arrangement where their faculty
3 comes to our campus to offer the courses for an
4 associate degree, our faculty goes to their campus to
5 offer years 3 and 4, so students can get both an
6 associate and a baccalaureate at both locations
7 without any duplication.
8 So it's a wonderful relationship. It's been
9 going on almost 10 years.
10 REPRESENTATIVE DALLY: My final question
11 pertains to 4-year graduation rates. I asked the
12 same question to the State-relateds.
13 How is the system doing in that regard?
14 DR. GARLAND: Sure, and I'm certain that Joe
15 is going to graduate in May and make certain that
16 that works for us in his particular case. And
17 actually, Shippensburg has a very high 4-year
18 graduation rate.
19 We've done a lot over the past 5 or 6 years
20 to ensure that students are able to move through the
21 programs and get done in 4 years. A lot of students
22 choose now to have family commitments, jobs, and all
23 of those kinds of things, so we understand. But we
24 want to make certain that in the ways in which we
25 structure and deliver our programs, that we've 45
1 removed any possible barrier that a student might
2 have in completing in 4 years.
3 About 5 years ago, the students, about one
4 in four students graduated within 4 years. We're now
5 at the point where one in three students is
6 graduating in 4 years, and that's a lot of change in
7 terms of university practice and policy to make that
8 happen that quickly.
9 At the same time, we continue to look at
10 what's going on nationally and how do we compare, and
11 those numbers haven't really changed nationally for
12 institutions like ours around the country. In those
13 cases, about one in five freshmen who start at the
14 university is able to graduate in 4 years.
15 We want to do better. We continue to look
16 for ways to do better for our students to get them
17 through, but we've made, I think, amazing progress in
18 a short period of time.
19 REPRESENTATIVE DALLY: Okay. Thank you,
20 gentlemen.
21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you.
23 Representative Dave Millard.
24 REPRESENTATIVE MILLARD: Thank you,
25 Mr. Chairman. 46
1 I read your presentation materials here with
2 the pie charts, that out of the total pie, tuition,
3 fees, miscellaneous, represents 63 percent. I know
4 that the challenge, of course, is to put the request
5 in for funding and see how much the State will
6 provide. Then the dilemma becomes the amount, if
7 there is a difference there, which most obviously
8 every year there is, what to set the rate of increase
9 for tuition at.
10 Now, my question is a little bit more
11 specific. Having written three tuition checks last
12 semester for my children at my alma mater, Bloom
13 University, there's an awful lot of fees listed in
14 addition to the basic education charge.
15 I've got two questions here. One is, aren't
16 those fees really part of tuition? And secondly, if
17 you're going to have to raise tuition and use, say, a
18 percentage that you're going to have to raise it,
19 does that mean that all of those subsequent or
20 subheaded fees are raised the equal amount?
21 DR. GARLAND: No. There's a separate
22 process -- and Dr. Armenti can talk about that --
23 there's a separate process for establishing
24 university fees.
25 While we talk here almost specifically about 47
1 the education general budget and about that tuition
2 increase, we also keep a close eye on university fees
3 as they might increase. And there are very different
4 patterns across the country, and even within our own
5 system, in terms of the rates of some of those fees.
6 In the cases where universities have
7 identified fees for things such as health services,
8 student activities fees, and other things, they are
9 based on a very careful budget development process to
10 try to figure out, in a sense, the greatest amount of
11 impact for the least amount of dollars and to balance
12 those out so that in any of those particular
13 categories, there are no deficits being run and that
14 students are receiving the benefits that those fees
15 actually produce for them.
16 So that process is monitored very carefully
17 by local councils of trustees, university Presidents
18 and their administrators. In the case of student
19 activities fees, our student government leaders are
20 critically involved in that process, looking at the
21 range of activities that are sponsored in that area.
22 We look at the fees, and I'm always mindful
23 of the fact that while we may talk about a
24 2.7-percent tuition -- 2.7 as we did this past year
25 for a tuition increase -- at the end of the day, it's 48
1 what size check do you have to write to cover the
2 total fees? And with room and board charges, being
3 dependent on utilities, for example, and food costs
4 and that kind of thing, some of those rates are
5 different.
6 We look carefully at how we stack up in
7 terms of required tuition and fees around the country
8 for other similar institutions, and are we in a sense
9 proceeding at a rate that we shouldn't be in terms of
10 adding to that burden to families and students on
11 that one end? And I was struck by the fact that we
12 looked at those numbers this year -- over the past
13 several years, we've been doing a lot to manage all
14 of our cost structures within the system, and there
15 are about 46 States in the country that have public
16 university systems like ours offering undergraduate
17 and generally master's level graduate programs. We
18 ranked 46 out of the 46 States in terms of the growth
19 in our annual required tuition and fees.
20 So I think we are doing -- while it may be a
21 nuisance looking at some of those fees and it may be
22 a check that continues to grow each year in terms of
23 writing it, I think we're doing the best we can, and
24 with your help, in maintaining that at the lowest
25 possible price we can. 49
1 REPRESENTATIVE MILLARD: And no discount for
2 three or more in the same--- Thank you.
3 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4 DR. GARLAND: Thank you.
5 Dr. Armenti, I think, has a comment.
6 DR. ARMENTI: To answer your specific
7 question, there's only one fee that actually goes up
8 along with tuition. It's called the academic support
9 fee, which is maxed out at 10 percent of tuition, and
10 for graduate students, 15 percent of tuition.
11 So clearly when tuition goes up, that also
12 goes up, but all the others are monitored
13 individually.
14 REPRESENTATIVE MILLARD: Thank you.
15 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Representative Fred
16 McIlhattan.
17 REPRESENTATIVE McILHATTAN: Thank you,
18 Mr. Chairman.
19 I don't have a question, but I do have an
20 observation and a closing remark.
21 Dr. Garland, I want to commend you for your
22 performance before this committee here today. I
23 mean, you've done an outstanding job, and it's
24 certainly evident that you have a real grasp and a
25 deep knowledge of the State System of Higher 50
1 Education.
2 And I know you haven't applied for the job
3 and I know you haven't put your application in, but I
4 think you'd make a great Chancellor of the State
5 System, and I hope you would consider that.
6 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
7 DR. GARLAND: Thank you.
8 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Any final comments?
9 Joe, do you have any?
10 STUDENT PELTZER: No. I would just really
11 like to thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf
12 of the students of the State System today. It's been
13 my pleasure.
14 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Well, it's a good
15 idea, and I think it is something new that Dwight
16 brought to the process, and I think it has been
17 helpful.
18 Vice Chancellor, any further comments?
19 DR. GARLAND: No. Again, I thank you for
20 the opportunity, and this committee, the House of
21 Representatives, has always been very supportive of
22 the State System. We look forward to that continuing
23 support and hope that we'll always be able to answer
24 your questions at any time that you have them.
25 Thank you. 51
1 REPRESENTATIVE KELLER: Thank you very much.
2 Thank you for being here, Doctor.
3 We're going to recess until 1 o'clock. We
4 will start right on time at 1 o'clock, and that will
5 be the University of Pennsylvania.
6 Thank you.
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8 (The hearing concluded at 12:25 p.m.)
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1 I hereby certify that the proceedings and
2 evidence are contained fully and accurately in the
3 notes taken by me on the within proceedings and that
4 this is a correct transcript of the same.
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