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DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM GHNÓTHAÍ EACHTRACHA AGUS TRÁDÁIL, AGUS COSAINT JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND TRADE, AND DEFENCE Déardaoin, 26 Aibreán 2018 Thursday, 26 April 2018 Tháinig an Comhchoiste le chéile ag 10 a.m. The Joint Committee met at 10 a.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators Seán Barrett, Mark Daly, Seán Crowe, Gabrielle McFadden. Noel Grealish, Tony McLoughlin, Maureen O’Sullivan. I láthair / In attendance: Deputies Jack Chambers and Aengus Ó Snodaigh. Teachta / Deputy Brendan Smith sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 JFATD Foreign Affairs Council: Defence and Related Matters Chairman: As we have a quorum, the meeting will now commence. I have received apolo- gies from Senators Ivana Bacik and Billy Lawless. The committee will be hearing from the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoise- ach with responsibility for defence, Deputy Kehoe. He is very welcome. As part of its work programme for 2018, the committee agreed to invite the Minister of State before it to discuss defence matters raised at the Foreign Affairs Council, particularly the Common Security and Defence Policy, CSDP, permanent structured co-operation, PESCO, and other relevant EU-pro- posed initiatives on defence. This meeting also provides an opportunity for detailed discussion with the Minister of State on all matters relevant to the Defence Forces. I welcome his officials and thank them for the briefing supplied in advance of the meeting. I remind members, witnesses and those in the Public Gallery to ensure that their mobile phones are switched off for the duration of the meeting as they cause interference, even when on silent mode, with the recording equipment. I remind members of the long-standing parliamen- tary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by abso- lute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I call on the Minister of State to make his opening statement. Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Paul Kehoe): I thank the Chairman and members for this opportunity to exchange views on defence matters. I welcome this opportunity to engage with the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence and provide an update on Ireland’s position and role in regard to the European Union Common Security and Defence Policy, CSDP, and my recent attendance at the meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council on defence matters on 6 March. My opening statement will provide an update to members on several of the main developments in the EU defence dialogue in recent times. I would also like to provide members with an overview of current peacekeeping missions and to acknowledge the vital role played by the Defence Forces overseas in this anniversary year of Ireland’s first participation on a UN mission in 1958. In terms of CSDP, Ireland is a strong proponent of the important role the EU can play in sup- port of international peace and security and the UN. It is important, therefore, to remain fully engaged in all CSDP processes. Fully participating in these developments ensures that we have a voice and can influence their evolution. At a time when the world has become a more unstable and insecure place, Ireland remains fully supportive of the efforts of EU member states, within the treaty provisions, to improve the Union’s capacity to respond to the challenging security environment, including in the area of defence. Those efforts are being advanced through the 2 26 APRIL 2018 implementation of the EU global strategy of foreign policy and security, the Commission’s European defence action plan and enhanced co-operation with international partners, including the UN and NATO. Ireland’s approach to these matters will always be both constructive and realistic. We remain strong supporters of initiatives which improve the capacity of the EU to contribute to international peace and security, particularly in support of the UN and to deliver- ing the necessary capabilities in this regard. Our engagement with our EU colleagues through CSDP currently involves participation in a number of areas. The Foreign Affairs Council (Defence) held in Brussels on 6 March included an exchange of views on PESCO and on CSDP missions and operations. This was an important opportunity for Ministers to come together to take stock of the PESCO initiative to date and to chart a real- istic yet progressive way forward. Discussions were open and constructive and were followed by the adoption of a Council decision detailing the first set of PESCO projects and a Council recommendation on the way forward regarding PESCO implementation. Key areas discussed in respect of the way forward for PESCO were the specific rules governing PESCO projects and the participation of exceptional third states. As members are aware, the Government and the Dáil approved Ireland’s participation in PESCO - along with 24 fellow EU member states - last December. The establishment of PESCO represents a further important development in EU co-operation in support of international peace and security under CSDP. Under PESCO, member states will come together in different groups to develop and make available additional capabilities and enablers for peacekeeping and crisis management operations. Participation in PESCO and specific PESCO projects will enable our Defence Forces to further develop their capabilities in support of peacekeeping through collaboration in joint projects with like-minded partners. Joint projects should also drive down the costs of developing and procuring capa- bilities. Ireland is participating in two PESCO projects as part of the first tranche of PESCO projects agreed via the Council decision by the Foreign Affairs Council (Defence) in March this year. Ireland is participating in the German-led project to develop a centre of excellence for EU military training missions and the Greek-led upgrade of maritime surveillance systems. Ire- land’s participation in PESCO also involves fulfilling a number of common commitments that are detailed in the national implementation plan, NIP. Ireland and other participating member states recently received general feedback on the first NIPs and will participate in further discus- sions in this area. Improving military mobility also features as one of the PESCO projects, with the Nether- lands as the lead nation and with the participation of 24 member states. Ireland has observer status on this project for the purpose of keeping abreast of developments in the area. This issue has gained prominence on the EU agenda given difficulties that countries have experienced in moving their troops through other EU countries for the purposes of training and exercises. Per- ceived obstacles, such as diplomatic clearance and customs requirements, as well as the ability of the EU transport infrastructure to carry heavy military equipment, have been identified. On 28 March 2018, the joint communication regarding the action plan on military mobility was published by President Juncker and the High Representative, Ms Mogherini. The action plan builds on the roadmap on military mobility developed in the framework of the European De- fence Agency, EDA, and covers a number of areas, which are military requirements, infrastruc- ture, dangerous goods, customs and VAT, as well as cross-border movement permission. These actions are not restricted to the defence area alone but affect areas for which the Departments of Transport, Tourism and Sport and Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Revenue Commission- ers, among others, are responsible. The action plan recognises that full respect will be given to the sovereignty of EU member states over their national territory and national decision-making processes regarding military movements. Ireland welcomes this recognition that our constitu- 3 JFATD tional requirements and national sovereignty relating to this issue cannot be overlooked. The action plan is submitted to the EU member states for consideration and endorsement with the first actions expected to be carried out in the coming months. The co-ordinated annual review on defence, CARD, aims to create greater transparency amongst member states by sharing information on future defence policy, capability develop- ment, budgets and investment by member states. Ireland recognises that CARD could poten- tially offer opportunities to pool capability requirements and provide a more economic and efficient means of equipment procurement. It could also assist capability development for the Defence Forces by combining with others procuring similar equipment and services. Participa- tion in CARD is open to all member states on a voluntary basis, recognising that the defence policies of member states, including defence spending and capabilities, are entirely a national competence. The detailed implementation and information sharing requirements for CARD have been developed by the EDA and are currently being tested through a trial run that com- menced in the autumn of 2017. Ireland is co-operating actively with regard to CARD and a bilateral meeting as part of the CARD trial run took place between Ireland and the EDA on 14 December 2017.