Seanad Éireann

Vol. 254 Wednesday, No. 10 29 November 2017

DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SEANAD ÉIREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Insert Date Here

29/11/2017A00100Business of Seanad ��692

29/11/2017A00300Commencement Matters ��692

29/11/2017A00400Home Care Packages Provision��692

29/11/2017B00425Road Projects Status ��694

29/11/2017C00200Scéim na gCúntóirí Teanga��696

29/11/2017G00100Order of Business ��700

29/11/2017P00200Visit of Monaghan Delegation ��720

29/11/2017P00400Order of Business (Resumed) ��720

29/11/2017P00800Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (Amendment) Bill 2017: Second Stage��720

29/11/2017BB00100Business of Seanad ��729

29/11/2017BB00500Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015: Statements ��730

29/11/2017TT00100Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund 2017: Motion ��760

29/11/2017YY00450Ireland’s Bid for European Banking Authority: Statements ��769

29/11/2017CCC00500Diplomatic Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017: Second Stage ��778

29/11/2017HHH00100Garda Overtime Budget: Statements ��787 SEANAD ÉIREANN

Dé Céadaoin, 29 Samhain 2017

Wednesday, 29 November 2017

Chuaigh an Leas-Chathaoirleach i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m.

Machnamh agus Paidir. Reflection and Prayer.

29/11/2017A00100Business of Seanad

29/11/2017A00200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator Máire Devine that, on the motion for the Commencement of the House today, she proposes to raise the following matter:

The need for the Minister of State at the Department of Health with special responsibility for disability issues to outline the home care packages and hours available to a severely disabled individual whose wish it is to be discharged from St. James’s Hospital, Dublin, and return home.

I have also received notice from Senator Victor Boyhan of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to provide an update on the provision of funding for the proposed Athy ring road.

I have also received notice from Senator Keith Swanick of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to outline the qualifying criteria for the allocation of a language assistant under the cúntóir teanga scheme.

I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion. I have selected Sena- tors Devine, Boyhan and Swanick and they will be taken now.

29/11/2017A00300Commencement Matters

29/11/2017A00400Home Care Packages Provision

29/11/2017A00500Senator Máire Devine: I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for taking this Commencement matter. I am here to make a personal representation for the family of Ms Mary 692 29 November 2017 Baker. Mary is 80 years old and went to St. James’s Hospital in August with a chest infection, ending up with a broken back, leading to paralysis from the waist down.

29/11/2017A00600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Please desist from naming individuals.

29/11/2017A00700Senator Máire Devine: Okay. The family is here so they are okay with it.

29/11/2017A00800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: They may be but we are not allowed to name individuals.

29/11/2017A00900Senator Máire Devine: Mary was at five years old put into institutional care, along with her small sister of two years old. She had an horrific childhood, with horrors we can only imagine and which we have heard of through the years about the Magdalen laundries. She protected her small sister and got out of there at the age of 16, never to return. She married happily and has children of her own. She is blind. She asked her children to never allow her back into institutional care. Unfortunately, this is what is being offered by the wonderful staff at St. James’s Hospital, who have cared for Mary. They have said she will probably need institutional care as opposed to home care. She wants to go home and she is familiar with that environment, given her disability of being blind. She had a wonderful life going in and out of social events, having hairdos and being in her local community. She was a very independent woman.

Since the news was broken last week by the staff in the hospital, she has experienced extreme distress. She is crying and cannot eat. She just wants her wishes to be fulfilled in that she can be cared for at home with whatever time she has left. She needs more than the average home care package. I know there are difficulties with these packages but I plead for the Minister of State to work with the other Minister of State, Deputy Finian McGrath, on this and meet the family. We should look at the benefit to the State, as the cost of hospital bed stay is approximately €6,000 per week, the cost of residential care could be up to €2,000 per week and the cost of a home care package is significantly lower.

I would like a commitment from the Ministers of State, including Deputy Finian McGrath, who is aware of this, to meet the family and work out the best option in order to fulfil her request for whatever time this woman has left. We need to have compassion and empathy and we must act in the best interests and wishes of Mary.

29/11/2017A01000Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jim Daly): I thank the Senator for raising this matter. She referred to a particular case. I believe that it would be inappropriate to discuss an individual’s circumstances in public in the Seanad. I appreciate this is a distress- ing time for the individual. However, I have been advised that the HSE is working closely with the family and that a range of resources is needed which are difficult to source.

The HSE has operational responsibility for planning, managing and delivering home and other community-based services for older people. In addition to the mainstream home help service, which offers support for personal care and help with domestic chores, enhanced home care is provided through home care packages. All those applying for home care are assessed and provided with a service, if appropriate, as soon as possible having regard to their assessed needs and availability of resources. Priority is given to people due to be discharged from acute hospitals who are in a position to return home with supports. However, the resources available for home care services, while significant, are limited and, with the increase in our elderly population, demand is growing year on year. In budget 2018, a further €37 million has been made available for older people’s services, comprising €5 million in funding in 2017 and €32 million next year, to further strengthen supports for older people, particularly to facilitate speedier dis- 693 Seanad Éireann charge from acute hospitals over the winter period. A significant proportion of this additional funding will go towards home care services. There will always be a cohort of people for whom residential nursing home care provides the best option to meet their health care needs. The nursing homes support scheme continues to be the main pathway through which most people enter residential care. The scheme will continue to be a key support ensuring that older people have access to high-quality care in a location of their choosing. Improving home care services in order that people can live with confidence, dignity and security in their own homes for as long as possible is a key commitment of the Government. Home supports are crucial to helping older people, and indeed people of all ages, with particular care needs to remain where they want to be, at home in the surroundings with which they are most familiar and comfortable. The Government is planning to establish a new statutory home care scheme and a system of regulation for home care services. The Department is currently engaged in a detailed process to progress these issues. The Minister for Health, Deputy Harris, and I launched a public consultation process on the financing and regulation of home care in July of this year. The public consultation is just the start of the broader process of engagement by the Department with interested individuals, groups and service providers on the future of home care. The Government is committed to progressing the development of a regulatory and funding model for home care services as quickly as possible, though I should point out that it is a complex undertaking and will require a significant amount of detailed preparation.

29/11/2017B00200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Would Senator Devine like to ask a supplementary question?

29/11/2017B00300Senator Máire Devine: Yes. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly. I refer to his reference to a location of their choosing. This woman chooses to go home to a familiar environment where there is family involvement and they can dovetail in with a home care package. I could go on. Her daughter lives with her, other daughters and sons live in the vicinity and they already have made alterations to their homes to accept their mother home for whatever time she has left. Will the Minister of State give a commitment that he will meet the family, who are sitting in the Gallery here today, and try to come up with a package that is suitable for all?

29/11/2017B00400Deputy Jim Daly: I cannot get involved in personal cases. I think the Senator knows that. As a Minister of State, I do not decide, and nor does the Senator, about resources. That is not a decision for us. I manage the Department from a macro level but individual resources are administered by the HSE. It would not be appropriate for me as Minister of State to direct the HSE as to what families should get the resources that are available. That is a matter for the HSE.

29/11/2017B00425Road Projects Status

29/11/2017B00450An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister, Deputy Ross.

29/11/2017B00500Senator Victor Boyhan: I welcome the Minister and thank him for coming to the House to deal with this Commencement matter. It is brief. I am raising this issue on behalf of public representatives in Athy, County Kildare. I have some claim to fame there in that my family is originally from there and is in business and in the commercial life of the town itself in Duke Street. I know it well. As I am there on a weekly basis, I am very familiar with County Kildare and with Athy in particular. It was once a very successful market town and a particularly attractive town. It is served by wonderful public transport because there is a train service there. It is a town that from the 1960s right up to the present has seen a diminishing of employment and 694 29 November 2017 economic activity. However, it has great prospects being so near to Dublin and there is a great potential future in respect of the provision for the Athy ring road. My understanding is that An Bord Pleanála has now given the go-ahead. There were planning issues and difficulties but they have been resolved. Kildare County Council is keen to get on with this project. People want to see this road put in as quickly as possible, subject to the available finances. They want to know where this project is on the priority list for the Minister’s capital programme in the context of the town’s renewal and revitalisation and in respect of capitalising on its potential. It is an important hub for people doing business and living there and it has good transport connections. We are trying to find out what is the status of the ring road in the grand scheme of things and what sort of funding has been identified. Where is the priority in getting this initiative and this road up and running?

29/11/2017B00600Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Shane Ross): I thank the Senator for raising this important subject. Although I get an enormous number of requests of this sort as Topical Issues in the Dáil and as Commencement matters here, it does matter. It would be wrong for me to say that when the Senator raises matters of this sort, they are disregarded, dis- posed of or ignored or that we are going through the motions. There are hundreds and perhaps thousands of roads that potentially could be brought to my attention but when they are, it does make an impact, not just on me but on the Department. It puts the issue immediately on the radar. What Senator Boyhan is doing today is useful and I hope will be beneficial in sorting out the problem of traffic congestion in Athy.

The improvement and maintenance of regional and local roads is a statutory function of the local authority in accordance with the provisions of section 13 of the Roads Act 1993. Works on such roads are a matter for the relevant local authority to be funded from its own resources supplemented by State road grants. The initial selection and prioritisation of projects to be funded from these moneys is a matter for each local authority. Ireland has just under 100,000 km of road in its network and the maintenance and improvement of national, regional and local roads places a substantial financial burden on local authorities and on the Exchequer. The national financial position meant there were very large reductions in Exchequer funding available for roads expenditure after the financial crisis. Consequently, the focus has had to be on maintenance and renewal, rather than major new improvements in recent years and I envisage that this emphasis on maintaining the assets will continue into the next capital plan period. The Building on Recovery capital plan 2016-2021 and the capital plan review allocations mark a significant step in terms of restoring funding to the levels needed to maintain the road network in a steady- state condition and allowing for some investment in road improvement schemes. The Athy southern distributor road is one of the improvement projects designed to address bottlenecks on the road network included in the capital plan. Following An Bord Pleanála’s approval, to which the Senator referred, of the project in October, the next stage is for Kildare County Council to do the detailed project design and to prepare the contract documents. Under the Department’s funding programme for the regional and local road improvement projects included in the capital plan, it is anticipated that the main construction contract for the Athy project will start in mid- 2020. It is hoped that it will be completed, I hope this answers the question, by 2022. It is likely that some advance works contracts will be undertaken in 2018 and 2019 in advance of the main contract. In addition, land purchase will proceed.

That should give the Senator the type of timetable we are thinking about, barring any upsets which we do not anticipate now that An Bord Pleanála has gone through the process.

29/11/2017B00700Senator Victor Boyhan: I thank the Minister. It has been helpful as it gives a focus and 695 Seanad Éireann an indicative timeline. The local council and people living there are keen to know and at least there is no ambiguity now. We have an indicative timeline for it and in respect of the role of Kildare County Council. When one talks to a council it can say one thing while one hears another from the Minister. We at least have the basis for something now and I want to thank the Minister for dealing with that.

29/11/2017B00800Deputy Shane Ross: I thank the Senator. The fact he has made representations on this will make it more likely rather than less likely to happen within that timetable.

29/11/2017C00200Scéim na gCúntóirí Teanga

29/11/2017C00250An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Joe McHugh, to the House.

29/11/2017C00300Senator Keith Swanick: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Tá mé sásta cúpla focal a rá faoi scéim na gcúntóirí teanga agus tá cúpla ceist shimplí agam faoin scéim.

As the Minister of State will know from recent parliamentary questions submitted by my colleague, Deputy Dara Calleary, this is an issue which is affecting primary schools in Gaeltacht areas. It is my understanding that the objective of the cúntóirí teanga scheme is to reinforce Irish as a spoken language among young people in the Gaeltacht. Schools have been fortunate to have the opportunity to have native Irish speakers visit on a daily basis to give their expertise in spoken Irish to the children. Many of the schools feel that this is a vital cog in their wheels. Two organisations, Muintearas Teoranta and Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne Teoranta, manage the scheme on behalf of the Department and deliver it, for the most part, through the network of Gaeltacht primary schools.

The school about which I have been contacted is scoil náisiúnta Dubh Thuama in Erris. This school has availed of the cúntóirí teanga scheme in the past and is very eager to have it reinstated in the school. Last June the school signed up to the new Department of Education and Skills policy for Gaeltacht schools, that all subjects would continue to be taught through Irish and would continue to be adhered to in the junior classrooms. In other words, junior and senior infant classes would be immersed fully in the Irish language.

Unfortunately, when September allocations came around scoil náisiúnta Dubh Thuama was not included in the scheme and the school has not been briefed on why it was not chosen. Fol- lowing on from a response to a parliamentary question issued to Deputy Dara Calleary, it is clear that an allocation of €551,830 was made in order to facilitate the provision of the scheme to the same schools that participated in the scheme in 2016-17. I find it hard to understand, as does the school in question, why the schools from the 2016-17 scheme were automatically returned to the 2017-18 scheme and no other applications were accepted. The school is also very confused by the fact that three out of the seven schools that also signed up to the new De- partment of Education and Skills policy for Gaeltacht schools were not allocated funding from the cúntóirí teanga scheme while schools that have not signed up to the policy have been given allocations.

I ask the Minister of State to clarify the qualifying criteria for the provision of a language assistant as part of the cúntóirí teanga scheme.

696 29 November 2017

29/11/2017C00400Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht (Deputy Joe McHugh): Gabhaim mo bhuíochas leis an Seanadóir fá choinne an cheist thábhachtach seo. Bhí mé rud beag mall fosta agus tá brón orm fá dtaobh de sin. Gabhaim m’aitheantas fosta don dream i gCorca Dhuibhne agus le Muintearas Teoranta fá choinne a n-iarrachtaí agus a tiomantas don scéim seo thar na blianta.

Scéim na gcúntóirí teanga was established was established by the Department in 1999 as an additional initiative to help further strengthen Irish as a spoken language among school going children in Gaeltacht areas. Under the scheme, cúntóirí teanga or language assistants, who are fluent Irish speakers, provide support to Gaeltacht schools in order to further support language acquisition and enrichment opportunities for school age children within the school setting.

Gabhaim m’aitheantas leis na daoine a bhíonn ag obair in achan scoil fá choinne a ngealltanas don teanga fosta. I would like to acknowledge the commitment and dedication to the language shown by all of the people who are working on these schemes. The focus of the scheme is on activities that contribute primarily to the enrichment and acquisition of language opportunities including storytelling, rhymes, small plays, games and so forth rather than learning opportunities in the context of the curriculum. Tá na daoine ag obair ar rudaí go neamhfhoirmiúil, that is, the informal aspects of learning. This practical support greatly assists participant schools in their efforts to create such learning opportunities and helps to underpin the Irish language as the foremost community and family language in Gaeltacht areas. Caithfear a rá go bhfuil na daoine ag úsáid na teanga achan lá sa scoil i mbealaí neamhfhoirmiúil. For those who use it every day in an informal setting, it is of great benefit to their learning experience and their joy and love for the language. The overall measure is being implemented in support of the implementation of the 20-year strategy for the Irish language as it relates to the Gaeltacht.

In order to qualify for recognition under scéim na gcúntóirí teanga, which is administered on behalf of my Department by Muintearas Teoranta and Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne Teoranta, schools must be situated in a Gaeltacht area and operate through the medium of Irish. The scheme is currently operating in 107 Gaeltacht schools and 93 language assistants are engaged in delivering the scheme.

Funding of €784,442 has been approved for 2017-18. Bhí an uimhir chéanna i gceist fá choinne 2016-17. From this allocation, tá €548,613 ceadaithe do Mhuintearas Teoranta, atá ag obair sna Gaeltachtaí i nDún na nGall, Maigh Eo, Gaillimh, agus i Ráth Chairn agus Baile Ghib i gContae na Mí agus tá €232,629 ceadaithe d’Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne, atá ag obair i gCiarraí, Corcaigh agus Port Láirge.

Bunaíodh Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne Teoranta in 1980 agus tá sé i mbun an teanga a spreagadh go dtí seo. Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne was established in 1980 and it has been pro- moting the language to this present day. Oidhreacht Chorca Dhuibhne Teoranta is a subsidiary of Comharchumann Forbartha Chorca Dhuibhne that operates under the umbrella of Údarás na Gaeltachta. The organisation is operating from lár-ionad forbartha Bhaile an Fheirtéaraigh for which the Department approved grant funding of €1.7 million in 2013. Tá Muintearas Teoranta ag obair sa phobal ag cur traenáil ar fáil. Is fochomhlacht é de chuid Údarás na Gaeltachta. It works as a subsidiary of Údarás na Gaeltachta. The organisation’s headquarters is in Tir an Fhia, Leitir Móir, Contae na Gaillimhe; and it has sub-offices in the Donegal, Mayo and Kerry Gaeltacht areas. Education is provided to all age groups in the community, from pre-school to adult lifelong learning. Muintearas Teoranta is working in all aspects of education, training and services for the Gaeltacht community. 697 Seanad Éireann Gabhaim m’aitheantas arís chuig Muintearas Teoranta agus an dream atá lonnaithe i gCorca Dhuibhne dá tiomantas thar na blianta, that is, their commitment down through the years to the scheme. Tá Muintearas Teoranta ag obair ar rudaí éagsúla, go háirithe forbairt an 11 o’clock linbh, oideachas bunscoile agus an clár óige. Tá an clár óige thar a bheith táb- hachtach maidir leis na príomhspriocanna ar chlár Muintearas Teoranta. In recent years, these organisations have focused on opportunities offered by communicative modern technology for remote communities. As matters stand, the demand from Gaeltacht schools to participate in the language assistants scheme is greater than the Department’s capacity to meet the demand within the relevant subhead which funds the scheme. Notwithstanding this challenge, I should point out that in order to further strengthen the scheme in the context of the implementation of the language planning process as set out under the Gaeltacht Act 2012 agus faoin Pholasaí don Oideachas Gaeltachta 2017-2022, which is being spearheaded by the De- partment of Education and Skills, my Department intends to undertake a review of the scheme. Among the issues to be addressed as part of this review will be the qualifying criteria that should apply in the case of schools that are participating in the scheme or that wish to participate in the scheme sa todhchaí. This will address the issue raised by the Senator here today.

The issue of how best to advance the recommendations emerging from the review will be carefully considered in due course in the context of how best to ensure effective support of both the language planning process and the Polasaí don Oideachas Gaeltachta within na hacmhainní atá ar fáil, that is, the available resources. Without prejudice to the outcome of the review, consideration will also need to be given as to how best to address the matter of schools which have, for whatever reason, not yet opted to participate in the scheme being rolled out at Gaeltacht schools level by the Department of Education and Skills le tacaíocht a thabairt don pholasaí.

29/11/2017D00200Senator Keith Swanick: I share the Minister of State’s concerns with regards to nurtur- ing our language. I also understand that not all Gaeltacht schools can be facilitated due to the Department’s capacity. However, with regards to scoil náisiúnta Dubh Thuama, it is important to realise that it has opted to participate in the scheme in the past but for some reason it has now been excluded. I know that the Minister of State has visited Erris. I have met the Minister of State there before. I encourage him to examine this school in particular. The Irish language is alive and well in Erris. We want to nurture it for our kids and the next generation. I would be grateful for any available feedback in the coming weeks.

29/11/2017D00300Deputy Joe McHugh: I am very happy to do that. The Senator might just seol a ríom- phost. He might send on a wee email with the details of the specific school and I will certainly follow up on it. While I would like to see for all Gaeltacht primary schools that it would not be based on a selective process, certain schools are selected due to the financial resources that are available. I have visited schools and seen the scheme working. Muintearas Teoranta cov- ers the Donegal Gaeltacht areas. Consider the resources that are on our doorsteps. These are people who are not teachers. They do not need qualifications or PhDs. However, they have the language and are sharing it with primary schoolchildren in an informal setting, and this is the way to go.

I would like every school in the Gaeltacht to be covered by the scheme. I would also like every school in the country to be covered by it. Within the review, there will be a linkage with the Department of Education and Skills. It will take significant resources to do and we cannot bite it all off in one go. As the Senator says, given Irish is alive and well in Erris and other areas outside the Gaeltacht, we need to approach it in this way. This is a common-sense way of keeping the language alive and it is absolutely wonderful to see schools embracing the scheme. 698 29 November 2017 I have more of an insight into the work of Muintearas Teoranta because it is based in County Donegal but I want to acknowledge the two organisations for their efforts. They will be a fundamental part of the review. On the issue raised by the Senator, we are trying to cover every school eventually but it is subject to resources.

Mar fhocal scoir, gabhaim m’atheantas arís leis na daoine atá ag obair agus atá páirteach sa scéim seo agus leis na cúntóirí teanga. Tá siad ag coiméad na teanga bheo agus in áit níos fearr. Tá mé dóchasach go mbeidh an t-athbhreithniú ag dul ar aghaidh sa bhliain úr. B’fhéidir go mbeidh smaoineamh ann achan scoil a bheith clúdaithe faoin scéim seo agus go mbeidh an scéim seo ina scéim phíolótach fá choinne an tír agus fá choinne scoileanna atá taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht.

Tá tuismitheoirí ag strácáil. Parents are struggling. The children come home from school and not everyone has Irish and is able to speak the language but there is no shortage of love and demand from people who want their children to do it. We therefore must consider every possible opportunity to encourage them. A nice Ulster word we use for encouragement is “uchtach”. I learned it from a Connemara man. We have to provide the resources so that we can be ag spreagadh na daoine and motivating and encouraging them. This scheme works. I have seen it working. Tá an t-éileamh ann. The demand is there and there needs to be an obligation to provide for the school the Senator mentioned in a fair way. I hope the review will point to the benefits of what is happening, given where we have come from and what it has done and how the language can be grown just by using it daily.

We all have had our different experiences learning Irish. We all have our different stories. Perhaps we concentrated too much on writing or reading it rather than vocabulary and opportunities to speak the language. I acknowledge those in this House who are making an effort in this regard. Every single usher, with their varying degrees of Irish, is using it. Tá siad ag déanamh iarrachta. Tá na daoine uilig timpeall na tíre ag déanamh a seacht ndíchill fosta. Everyone is doing their level best to learn the language by even using just a couple of words.

Now this is my final word, that is, mo fhocal scoir. Má tá cúpla focal nó líofacht agat sa Ghaeilge, úsáid na teanga. Ná bí buartha. Do not be nervous. Ná bíodh eagla oraibh fosta. Do not be afraid of making mistakes - ag déanamh botún. I encourage those in the Seanad to use it. It happens to a great degree. Even those with no Irish who cannot string two words together can read it. Further, they can use the services available to this House. We have a translation service across the road in Kildare House. They are a very good team and they are listening to us here today. They are ready to translate. They are ready to do the business. The Senator opened his contribution this morning with a few lines as Gaeilge and should be commended on it. Three years ago, I was unable to string two words together. Knowing the value the language can give to us as people, we can grow with the language. We have a responsibility. Tá an dualgas orainn uilig. We have a responsibility don chéad ghlúin eile - for the next generation - to hold it. Our job as legislators is to work on this scheme. This scheme worked and it will work in the future. Tá mé dóchasach. Beidh an dearcadh dearfa fosta. Tá brón orm. I went on a wee bit there. I got carried away. I am sorry about that.

29/11/2017D00400An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Go raibh maith agat, a Aire Stáit. Bhí tú ag caint mar a bhíonn mise. I thank the Minister of State and the Senator.

Sitting suspended at 11.10 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.

699 Seanad Éireann

29/11/2017G00100Order of Business

29/11/2017G00200Senator Jerry Buttimer: The Order of Business is No. 1, Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (Amendment) Bill 2017 - Second Stage to be taken at 12.45 p.m. with the time allocated to this debate not to exceed two hours; No. 2, Statement by the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and the Environment on the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 to be taken at 2.45 p.m. and to adjourn no later than 4.15 p.m. with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and that allocated to other Senators not to exceed five minutes; No. 3, Statement by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport on the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 to be taken at 4.15 p.m. and to adjourn no later than 5.45 p.m. with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and that allocated to other Senators not to exceed five minutes; No. 4, motion re Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2017, received back from committee, to be taken at 5.45 p.m. and to conclude no later than 6.30 p.m. with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed six minutes and the Minister to be given no less than four minutes to respond; No. 5, statements on Ireland’s bid for the European Banking Authority to be taken at 6.30 p.m. and to conclude no later than 7.20 p.m. with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed six minutes and the Minister to be given no less than four minutes to respond; and No. 6, Diplomatic Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017 – Second Stage to be taken on the conclusion of No. 5 with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes, that allocated to other Senators not to exceed five minutes and the Minister to be given no less than five minutes to respond.

29/11/2017G00300Senator Catherine Ardagh: I was alarmed to learn today that the Assistant Garda commissioner, Mr. Pat Leahy, has issued a direction to the Dublin metropolitan area that all overtime cease on the basis that the budget has been exhausted. We learn this through the Garda Representative Association, GRA, whose members were told last night to go home from their stations. This essentially gives the green light to criminals to go about their business to the det- riment of good citizens. This is especially worrying as we face into the Christmas period when presents will be left in homes and cars and pick-pocketing in general is on the increase. Hav- ing attended many policing forum meetings in Dublin South-Central, I have seen that among the primary concerns for residents is the lack of policing on the streets; community policing; gardaí on the beat; and gardaí on bikes to deter such crimes as burglaries and assaults. I ask the Minister to seriously consider reinstating this budget as the cessation of overtime is very much a regressive policing step.

I would like to sympathise with the family and friends of the man who died sleeping rough in Ranelagh yesterday, an area that happens to be very close to the constituency office of the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy. The latest figures for rough sleeping found that, as of 7 November, 184 people were sleeping rough in Dublin city, amounting to a huge 30% increase since April. The fact that the homelessness crisis is spiralling out of control is a damning indictment of our Government and of the track records of the Ministers responsible. I commend the Islamic Cultural Centre in Clonskeagh for opening its doors to those sleeping rough during both Storm Ophelia and the recent cold spell.

As we all know, the elephant in the room here is the lack of housing supply, particularly with regard to social and affordable homes. We have seen no less than six failed housing policies to date, among them the failed development contribution rebate scheme; the failed vacant site levy; the failed vacant homes action plan; the failed local infrastructure housing activation fund, 700 29 November 2017 LIHAF; the failed repair and leasing scheme; and last but not least the failed Part V social housing scheme. More than 120,000 people nationwide are on the housing list. We need to start thinking bigger and have more ambitious plans because the current rate of building will not so much as scratch the surface of this huge list and issue. I again call on the Minister to come into the House to address these matters.

29/11/2017G00400Senator Billy Lawless: I want to raise a most important issue that falls under the brief of the Minister for Justice and Equality. Tomorrow, the Supreme Court will sit again on the very important case of NVH v. the Minister for Justice and Equality. This decision, as I highlighted in this Chamber on 4 October this year, included judgment of profound significance and compassion. It was delivered by Mr. Justice Donal O’Donnell. He stated:

In my view, the point has been reached when it cannot be said that the legitimate dif- ferences between an asylum seeker and a citizen can continue to justify the exclusion of an asylum seeker from the possibility of employment. The damage to the individual’s self worth, and sense of themselves, is exactly the damage which the constitutional right seeks to guard against. The affidavit evidence of depression, frustration and lack of self-belief bears that out.

The Supreme Court provided a period of six months for the Oireachtas to remedy what it determined to be an unconstitutional state of affairs and that time is up tomorrow. The court may strike down the absolute prohibition on work for asylum seekers as being repugnant to the Constitution. When the Minister was before this House, Members were informed that the interdepartmental task force led by his Department would report back in advance of the submissions the State intended to make before the court. I ask the Leader if he will update the House as to what the Minister intends to tell the Supreme Court tomorrow. Will asylum seekers have a right to work in this country or will they not? If so, when and how? Will legislation be put through these Houses? The Minister confirmed to this House that adults living in direct provision “will also see their capacity for economic independence enhanced in line with the finding of the Supreme Court”. How is this to be put into effect? When the Minister came before the House, he committed to “delivering an international protection system in Ireland that provides for decisions on applications in the shortest possible timeframes”. If there was a legal or practical limitation upon the amount of time during which an application for asylum status could be processed, particularly now that it appears the undocumented will be given the right to work, this would be a much fairer state of affairs to regularise our asylum process. In the facts of the Supreme Court case, the undocumented person was in the system for more than eight years, with no entitlement to work.

On another issue, as I have stated previously in this House, how can those of us who advo- cate for the undocumented Irish abroad, which is a strategic and diplomatic imperative of this Government and previous ones before it, in good conscience ignore what is an even worse state of affairs for the undocumented in Ireland?

29/11/2017H00200Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017H00300Senator Billy Lawless: I am aware that this issue was debated before the Dáil following a strong recommendation from the Joint Committee on Justice and Equality’s Report on Immi- gration, Asylum and the Refugee Crisis. This is an issue close to my heart, having worked for over 15 years with the undocumented Irish in the United States. I ask for the Minister for Jus- tice and Equality to come into the House to make a statement on what progress has been made 701 Seanad Éireann to regularise undocumented immigrants in Ireland. Ireland needs to have the moral backbone to stand up for the undocumented at home to speak with real authority in our lobbying efforts abroad.

29/11/2017H00400Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017H00500Senator Billy Lawless: I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach as I will be leaving for the United States in the morning, and I will take this opportunity to wish a very happy Christmas to the Leader, the Cathaoirleach, my fellow Seanadóirí-----

29/11/2017H00600Senator David Norris: A happy Christmas to Senator Lawless too, in America.

29/11/2017H00700Senator Billy Lawless: I thank Senator Norris. I especially wish the staff of this House a happy Christmas and thank them very much.

29/11/2017H00800Senator David Norris: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017H00900An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I thank Senator Lawless and wish him a happy Christmas too.

29/11/2017H01000Senator Máire Devine: It is a bit early for Christmas for me. I ask the Seanad to amend the Order of Business to ask the Taoiseach to come in to give an account, to quote his own words, of this dysfunctional Government’s handling of one the biggest critical and moral crises to face a Government in many years.

29/11/2017H01100Senator Jerry Buttimer: It is not a dysfunctional Government.

29/11/2017H01200Senator Máire Devine: I listened to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flana- gan, speaking in the Dáil last night. If one had closed one’s eyes, one would think one was listening to the discredited former Tánaiste, Deputy Fitzgerald, who was forced by the court of public opinion to resign yesterday.

29/11/2017H01300Senator Jerry Buttimer: That is right. It was the court of public opinion.

29/11/2017H01400Senator Máire Devine: How did the Minister for Justice and Equality respond when told by Mr. Noel Waters, a senior civil servant in his Department, about the existence of an email with Sergeant McCabe’s name in it? He told the Dáil last night that he did not ask Mr. Noel Waters about the email regarding Sergeant McCabe, nor did he ask who sent the email.

29/11/2017H01500Senator David Norris: Mr. Noel Waters rang him to say that he was resigning. That was the main point.

29/11/2017H01600Senator Máire Devine: The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, treated the email as if it did not exist.

29/11/2017H01700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: We look forward to hearing Senator Norris in due course.

29/11/2017H01800Senator Máire Devine: For seven days, the Minister ignored the existence of the email. He did not even tell the Taoiseach about its existence. Is that credible? Neither I nor the public think so. I was alarmed to hear the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, tell the Dáil last night that two trawls for documents by the Department of Justice and Equality failed to turn up-----

29/11/2017H01900Senator David Norris: Fianna Fáil stole Sinn Féin’s head and now it is looking for another.

29/11/2017H02000Senator Máire Devine: The trawls failed to turn up the relevant emails that led to the 702 29 November 2017 resignation of Deputy Fitzgerald. The saga continues. We then discovered from the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, that, amazingly, none of the emails of senior officials around Deputy Fitzger- ald, including her, had been checked. Why were the emails of these key people not checked? These are pertinent questions which I believe the Taoiseach can and should be here to answer. This Chamber is not second class. It should be treated as equal to the Dáil.

29/11/2017H02100Senator Jerry Buttimer: It is not. The Senator should know the Constitution.

29/11/2017H02200Senator Máire Devine: Its Members require respect. I call on the Leader to invite the Taoiseach to this House to answer those questions.

29/11/2017H02300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I want to clarify what the Senator is seeking.

29/11/2017H02400Senator Máire Devine: An amendment to the Order of Business.

29/11/2017H02500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator has proposed an amendment. I call Senator Hum- phreys.

29/11/2017H02600Senator Kevin Humphreys: I was fairly shocked when listening to “Morning Ireland” this morning when I heard about the ban on overtime for members of the Garda in this city. Gardaí were sent home last night from stations after being told that there was no money to pay for them to work. There is an urgent need for a Supplementary Estimate. The Garda Representative As- sociation, GRA, described it as an open door for criminals in Dublin. This cannot be allowed. I know of people across this city who wish for rain because it will keep young thugs off the streets, yet we are now talking about not having adequate numbers of gardaí on the streets in the capital city over the Christmas period. This is totally unacceptable. It is like every gurrier’s Christmas present coming together. It is just not acceptable that the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, would allow the capital city to go unpoliced over the Christmas period. I propose an amendment to Standing Orders, that the Minister for Justice and Equality should attend this House today.

29/11/2017H02700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: To the Order of Business?

29/11/2017H02800Senator Kevin Humphreys: To the Order of Business, sorry.

29/11/2017H02900An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator said Standing Orders.

29/11/2017H03000Senator Kevin Humphreys: I beg the Leas-Chathaoirleach’s pardon. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business, that the Minister for Justice and Equality should attend the House today to tell us how this city will be policed over the next four weeks. One hears from the GRA that the Garda does not have adequate numbers to police the city unless overtime is provided yet the Minister has been silent so far on the matter, at least until I came into the House. The Minister needs to attend to make sure the citizens of the capital city will know there will be an adequate policing service across the city.

29/11/2017H03100Senator Maria Byrne: I congratulate an off-duty fireman in Limerick, Des Fitzgerald, who rescued two ladies from the River Shannon on 18 September. He is to be honoured by Waterways Ireland today.

Mr. Willie Walsh of the International Airlines Group, IAG, has committed to the development of Shannon Airport and the group is looking for new routes for Shannon Airport. IAG is currently expanding and it has just announced flights out of Dublin. His next commitment is to 703 Seanad Éireann Shannon and the region because outside Dublin, Limerick, Shannon and the mid-west region is the fastest growing economic area in the country. It is important that Mr. Willie Walsh of IAG be kept to the commitment that he gave to over 300 businessmen at a lunch held by Shannon Chamber last Friday, because it is very important for the growth of the region.

29/11/2017H03200Senator Terry Leyden: I ask the Leader, Senator Buttimer, to ask the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Charles Flanagan-----

29/11/2017H03300Senator Jerry Buttimer: I cannot hear the Senator.

29/11/2017H03400Senator Terry Leyden: That is unusual.

29/11/2017H03500Senator Máire Devine: That is unusual.

29/11/2017J00100Senator Terry Leyden: I ask the Minister to attend the House to discuss the issues that have been raised by my colleagues, in particular Senator Ardagh, who is familiar with the situation in Dublin and throughout the country. To say that I am alarmed would be an understate- ment. Assistant Commissioner Pat Leahy stated that there would be no overtime in the country between now and Christmas except for work on certain Kinahan gang affairs. Mr. Leahy seems like an honourable and honest man and I would like to see him move up to Commissioner. He would be an ideal choice because he tells the truth about what is happening. It was important that we be alerted to the situation.

Mr. Kieran O’Neill of the Garda Representative Association, GRA, spoke on today’s “Morn- ing Ireland” and expressed the seriousness of the situation. To declare an interest, the GRA is my nominating body. Indeed, it is the nominating body of four Senators. We must listen to its concerns because it put us here from a nomination point of view.

What Mr. O’Neill said was fair and honourable. He is concerned about what is happening. Gardaí were sent home from stations last night because there was no overtime. It is a serious threat to the security and safety of the State and our citizens.

Mr. Leahy is the most straightforward and honourable man. When he talked about Stepa- side Garda station, he said that it was not his priority.

29/11/2017J00200Senator David Norris: Exactly.

29/11/2017J00300Senator Terry Leyden: He said it six times.

29/11/2017J00400Senator David Norris: A stroke by the Minister, Deputy Ross.

29/11/2017J00500Senator Terry Leyden: He told the Committee of Public Accounts that, if he got extra manpower today, he would send it to Ballyfermot and the Dublin inner city before Stepaside. Stepaside was a political decision. Why was the Tarmonbarry station on the bridge between Dublin, Roscommon and Castlebar not opened even though there was a Taoiseach there at the time?

29/11/2017J00600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator has gone into injury time.

29/11/2017J00700Senator Terry Leyden: As the former Taoiseach told me, he promised to open Stepaside, but he did not promise there would be gardaí. There seem to be no gardaí going to Stepaside. It was the most blatant political manoeuvre, and now we know the full detail of the-----

704 29 November 2017

29/11/2017J00800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator has gone over his allocated time.

29/11/2017J00900Senator Terry Leyden: The Leas-Chathaoirleach might not like to hear my views.

29/11/2017J01000Senator Máire Devine: We have gone over time. That is all.

29/11/2017J01100Senator Terry Leyden: Really?

29/11/2017J01200Senator Máire Devine: Yes.

29/11/2017J01300Senator Terry Leyden: Senator Devine is not too bad at this herself.

29/11/2017J01400An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator is 15 seconds over time. Please, wind up.

(Interruptions).

29/11/2017J01600Senator Terry Leyden: This from a party that is spending €5 million on propaganda. The last socialist democratic party in Germany had such a unit as well, so it does not surprise me. Knowing the background-----

29/11/2017J01700Senator Jerry Buttimer: The Senator is going back to his old ways.

29/11/2017J01800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I thank Senator Leyden, but he has made his point.

29/11/2017J01900Senator Terry Leyden: I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach, but some might find it difficult to hear the truth.

29/11/2017J02000Senator Jerry Buttimer: Can Senator Leyden spell that word?

29/11/2017J02100Senator Terry Leyden: The Government will spend €5 million on propaganda but not on overtime for gardaí in Dublin. It is a disgrace.

29/11/2017J02200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator is out of order.

29/11/2017J02300Senator Terry Leyden: No. This Government is out of order.

29/11/2017J02400An Leas-Chathaoirleach: No. The Senator is out of order. I call Senator Boyhan.

(Interruptions).

29/11/2017J02600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Please, I have called Senator Boyhan.

29/11/2017J02700Senator Victor Boyhan: I second the amendment to have the Minister for Justice and Equality brought here. I also wish to discuss the policing issue. It will affect many major urban centres, particularly Dublin. Gardaí went home yesterday distraught, annoyed and frustrated at the fact that their work regarding the security of the State and its citizens would be compro- mised.

Garda sources have told me that assistant commissioners around the country were told that their budgets for all policing would be cut. The Minister needs to attend the House today. I will support any move to bring him in, as these cuts have been greeted with shock by rank-and-file gardaí. This is an important issue. We need to know who sanctioned these cuts.

Last week, a colleague of mine who owns a jewellery shop in Dún Laoghaire was beaten over the head by an armed man who had already had his passport confiscated by the Garda and 705 Seanad Éireann is now on the run. That shop owner was beaten to a pulp while he was trying to get on with running his business. There are serious concerns with confidence. The public demands gardaí on our streets.

Today, the 2017 Supplementary Estimates for the public services arrived on my desk. The Garda is listed on the first page with €44.2 million. It reads: “Estimate of the amount required in the year ending 31 December 2017, for the salaries and expenses of the Garda Síochána”. The Minister should attend the House today to explain what that means.

29/11/2017J02800Senator Jerry Buttimer: He cannot come here today. Does the Senator know the rules of the House at all?

29/11/2017J02900An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Time is just up.

29/11/2017J03000Senator Victor Boyhan: I will support a move to have the Minister attend today.

29/11/2017J03100Senator Jerry Buttimer: Does the Senator know the rules of the House at all?

29/11/2017J03200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Order, please.

29/11/2017J03300Senator David Norris: Is there a shortage of paper? In the old days, we used to get little pieces of paper on which to make notes.

29/11/2017J03400Senator Jerry Buttimer: That is right.

29/11/2017J03500Senator David Norris: There has been much talk about political accountability on the face of a couple of emails and so on, but what about the real problems? No one seems to be addressing them. First, two of the major organisations of the State - the Department of Justice and Equality and the Garda Síochána - conspired together knowingly to make false accusations against a citizen of the State and to frame him. Had that citizen not had a tape recording of that meeting, he could have been destroyed and the false accusations would have been held against him.

29/11/2017J03600Senator Gerard P. Craughwell: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017J03700Senator David Norris: Nothing has been done about the two people involved in that conspiracy. This is the real question of accountability.

29/11/2017J03800Senator Gerard P. Craughwell: They got their pensions and are gone with them.

29/11/2017J03900Senator David Norris: Yes.

29/11/2017J04000An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Order, please.

29/11/2017J04100Senator David Norris: Second, the Department failed to accede to an order for discovery. If the Taoiseach had not demanded a trawl of the Department, we would not have had this discovery. I know a little about discovery. During my many triumphant legal actions, we sought discovery against RTÉ and RTÉ was forced to disclose information, including tape recordings, that destroyed its case. It had to do it. I understand it to be a criminal offence not to comply with an order for discovery. Third, a senior garda met Deputy McGuinness, who is a most honourable man, in a car park in an attempt to influence the business of a committee.

Here are three issues in respect of which there should be accountability, and much more so 706 29 November 2017 than the political accountability, searching for heads and political jockeying there has been regarding political figures. Let us address the real situation, where citizens of the State potentially have their rights, futures and livelihoods destroyed by a criminal conspiracy among organs of the State. That should worry anyone who is interested in democracy.

29/11/2017J04200Senator David Norris: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017J04300Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: I dtosach, tacaím leis an méid atá ráite ag Seanadóir Billy Lawless maidir leis an rialú a rinne an Chúirt Uachtarach maidir le cearta oibre. I support Senator Lawless’s comments on the right to work and the Supreme Court decision. It is an important debate and clarification on the issue is necessary.

The Taoiseach has been busy travelling during his first months in office. He has been to San Francisco, Seattle, Silicon Valley, Toronto, London, New York, Paris, Tallinn and Chicago.

29/11/2017J04400Senator David Norris: Has he been to Korea?

29/11/2017J04500Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: I do not believe so, at least not officially.

29/11/2017J04600Senator Jerry Buttimer: Will Senator Norris be going there himself?

29/11/2017J04700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Leader, please. Senator Ó Clochartaigh has the floor.

29/11/2017J04800Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: When will the Taoiseach come to the Seanad? From my recollection, he has not been here yet. That is a disgrace.

I was concerned by some of the Leader’s barracking of my colleague, Senator Devine, regarding this Chamber. I do not see this Chamber as playing second fiddle to the Dáil.

29/11/2017J04900Senator Jerry Buttimer: It does. The Senator has been here long enough.

29/11/2017J05000Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: I see this Chamber-----

29/11/2017J05100Senator Jerry Buttimer: Does the Senator know the Constitution?

29/11/2017J05200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Order, please.

29/11/2017J05300Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: It strikes me that, whenever the Leader does not like to hear what we say, he interrupts us. That seems to be a particular-----

29/11/2017J05400Senator Jerry Buttimer: With the facts and to correct the record.

29/11/2017J05500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Senators, please.

29/11/2017J05600Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: That seems to be a particular trend in this Chamber. It is disrespectful and unbecoming of a Leader.

29/11/2017J05700Senator Jerry Buttimer: In fairness to the Senator, he is good at it himself.

29/11/2017J05800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: One at a time, please. Senator Ó Clochartaigh has the floor.

29/11/2017J05900Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Thanks, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. The point that we are trying to make is that this is an equal House in the Parliament. It should be treated so and with the respect that we deserve. We all have a mandate. We are all here with the job of holding the

707 Seanad Éireann Government to account regardless of whether it likes that. Many times, Ministers of State have been sent here to cover issues on which they have not been fully briefed.

Senior Ministers have been sent here to speak on portfolios which are not their own and this is not good enough. When we have scandals such as we have seen in the past week, which nearly brought the Government down, the least the Taoiseach can do is come into 12 o’clock this House and account for his actions. I give credit to Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, who came in last week, answered questions and took statements. She was not afraid to come in but I do not know whether the Taoiseach is. I note that Drew Nelson has made it as far as this House, and Nicola Sturgeon was able to make it here. We have a €5 million communications unit so perhaps it could send an email to the Taoiseach to tell him how to get here.

29/11/2017K00200Senator Paul Gavan: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017K00300Senator David Norris: He might not read it.

29/11/2017K00400Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: I call on him to come to this House to account to us as elected politicians who represent people.

I support the amendment to the Order of Business and I hope our colleagues in Fianna Fáil will support it and stand up for this House, so that we are respected and the Government will take note of us.

29/11/2017K00500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Is the Senator seconding the amendment?

29/11/2017K00600Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Yes.

29/11/2017K00700Senator Keith Swanick: As my party’s health spokesperson, I am very aware of the har- rowing cases of patients not getting access to life-changing medication, whether because of the HSE refusing to reimburse them or because of serious delays in the reimbursement process. The reimbursement process is broken and Ireland is now one of the worst countries in Europe for speed of access to new medications. Orphan drugs, in particular, are a serious casualty of the process as they are currently assessed through the same mechanism as all pharmaceutical products. Due to their small numbers, the companies involved enter into negotiations with a weaker hand which, when dealing with the HSE, often means they are left behind.

It does not help that a committee to evaluate drugs for rare diseases has yet to be set up, three years after a Government report recommended its establishment. Senator Reilly launched the national rare diseases plan and I commend him on that but it was back in 2014, 1,247 days ago. It now has a chairperson but no members and it is not expected to be in place before the first quarter of 2018. One drug in particular, vimizim, is the first effective treatment for muco- polysaccharidosis and it has thus far given patients a quality of life they would not otherwise have experienced but it will no longer be available after 5 December. Today I had the honour to meet with Grace McIntyre and her parents Padraig and Barbara, who are in the Visitors Gallery. This little nine year old girl, who has no life without vimizim, is one of two children in Ireland who are participating in a compassionate programme provided by Biomarin, the pharmaceutical company, but her parents are extremely fearful for her future and are living in limbo, not knowing what will happen to their daughter after 5 December. Can the Leader imagine how they are facing into Christmas this year? We need an urgent debate on this matter.

29/11/2017K00800Senator Paddy Burke: I wish well to former Senator Denis Landy, following his letter of

708 29 November 2017 resignation to the Cathaoirleach yesterday. I wish him well in his retirement and I hope everything works out well for him. He was a very good Member of Seanad Éireann and contributed nearly every week. He was particularly strong on councillors’ pay and conditions and he raised many issues on the floor of this House.

I congratulate Senator Norris on being the longest serving Senator in the history of the State. It is quite an achievement.

29/11/2017K00900Senator Paddy Burke: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017K01000Senator Paddy Burke: It is an honour to serve with the longest-serving Member. It is a great achievement for him and he deserves it.

29/11/2017K01100An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Perhaps Senator Burke is hoping to join him.

29/11/2017K01200Senator David Norris: We go back a long way but I understand the House will be talking about it tomorrow.

29/11/2017K01300Senator Jerry Buttimer: This is typical of Senator Paddy Burke.

29/11/2017K01400Senator Paddy Burke: I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on credit unions. The Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform and Taoiseach launched a report on the credit unions today, after a considerable amount of work compiling it. It is a very good report and I ask the Leader to bring the Minister for Finance in to discuss the issue. There are some pressing issues relating to credit unions.

29/11/2017K01500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I was not here yesterday but I join with the Senator in sending best wishes to Senator Denis Landy, who has retired. I wish him well in the future.

29/11/2017K01600Senator David Norris: Hear, hear.

29/11/2017K01700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I also congratulate Senator Norris on his achievement. Well done, Senator.

29/11/2017K01800Senator Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I wish to raise two issues. The first is the necessity to have a debate here with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Charles Flanagan. This time last week we on this side of the House were accused of all sorts of things relating to the former Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. We were accused of skullduggery and there were all sorts of pantomime moves when we asked for accountability. In fairness to the Minister, she came into the House and we had a debate. We are respectfully asking for a debate with the Minister, Deputy Flanagan, on the actions he has taken as Minister and on Garda overtime. In Dublin city, where I live, we had a very successful Garda operation recently when gardaí intercepted what appears to have been a shooting about to take place and they seized some firearms. The second most senior garda in the city is suggesting that the reopening of Stepaside Garda station is well down his list of priorities and now we hear that Garda overtime has been cancelled for the foreseeable future, which means the situation as regards law and order and policing is quite stark, so a debate with the Minister is warranted.

I also want to raise the issue of homelessness, though I know it has been raised before. In recent days, many people watching the political goings-on would not have been too impressed by how the Oireachtas was brought to the edge of disaster, with a Christmas election threatened. Two homeless people have died in Dublin in the past week and I believe the total is seven 709 Seanad Éireann over the past 12 weeks. The people would want their politicians to engage on this issue with the same level of seriousness as we engaged in the issue relating to the former Minister and Tánaiste, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, and the emails in the Department of Justice. People are literally dying on our streets and I respectfully ask that we come together to have a discussion with the Minister for Housing on the issue of homelessness. We would not need to be party- political on the issue but we need to treat it with the seriousness it deserves. The people of Ire- land would expect all Members of the Oireachtas to take it as seriously as, if not more seriously than, the issue which convulsed the Houses in recent days.

29/11/2017K01900Senator Gerard P. Craughwell: There has been a lot this week about taking political heads, as Senator Norris said. Anybody who participates in an attempt to destroy the reputation of a decent, honest man deserves everything that is coming to them but Fintan O’Toole writes in The Irish Times today about the subversion of this State by faceless greybeards who hide behind the political system, namely, the officials of this country. What do they do when they get caught out? They retire and take off with their pensions. We need to investigate the question of ethics. We have had a senior garda walk out of a job with a pension into a fat job somewhere else in a policing authority, without any accountability for what took place under her stewardship. We have had similar stories in respect of other civil servants. Yesterday, we saw the most senior official in the Department of Justice and Equality assure his staff that they will be found to have done no wrong, as he took off with his pension.

For two years, I have been trying to get the Department of Defence, another dysfunctional Department, to release information. I have five simple questions on what happens to the recommendations of the Ombudsman for the Defence Forces following his retirement and as we await for the position to be filled. A lieutenant colonel’s career was destroyed because of a mathematical error and we have failed to find out what happened in that case. A young captain is waiting for promotion while, again, a recommendation from the ombudsman is rejected.

It is time that we opened the veil on the Sir Humphreys that operate in this State. They are bringing down politicians all over the place. The Leader may smile but they have taken out one of his Ministers, and if we count the last Government they have taken out two. They sit back and smile knowing that the Government members are there for a short while but they are there forever. They have no right to decide what will and will not be released. How dare they behave the way that they have? I call on the Leader to ask the Taoiseach to take control of the Department and make it answerable to this House and to the State.

29/11/2017L00200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Everybody is running into injury time today. The time allocated for the Order of Business is two minutes. I call Senator Paul Gavan.

29/11/2017L00300Senator Paul Gavan: Today is international day of solidarity with the Palestinian people. Yesterday, SADAKA held an excellent conference which unfortunately I was only able to attend briefly. It had contributions from across the political spectrum and all were welcome. I remind the Leader that I requested a debate on the Palestinian issue, which is more important than ever. The Palestinian people are calling for us to do what has already been agreed, namely to recognise the State of Palestine. I implore the Leader to arrange such a debate as soon as possible.

To return to the question of bringing the Taoiseach into the House, the previous speaker gave another eloquent reason why we should do so. Fundamental questions need to be answered. This House is asking for answers and for the Taoiseach to come before it and provide 710 29 November 2017 those answers. There is a huge puzzle here particularly given that the Taoiseach had the email in question as early as Friday evening or Saturday, yet it took him a further three days to acknowledge what had to happen, namely that the Tánaiste had to resign. It is pertinent to note that, according to Deputy Jim O’Callaghan, Deputy Mícheál Martin had the email on Saturday. I must ask what was Deputy Martin doing with the Taoiseach for three days after he first knew that the Tánaiste would have to resign. Was he trying to stich up a deal that would keep the Tánaiste in place until such time as the email was revealed and public opinion recognised that she should step down? Fianna Fáil has significant questions to answer. Is this why it does not support our call for the Taoiseach to come to the Chamber?

29/11/2017L00400Senator Jerry Buttimer: I answered the Senator yesterday in a reply to the Order of Busi- ness.

29/11/2017L00500Senator Paul Gavan: I am calling for -----

29/11/2017L00600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Leader, please.

29/11/2017L00800Senator Jerry Buttimer: I answered the Senator yesterday.

29/11/2017L00900Senator Paul Gavan: The Leader’s obstruction is becoming beyond a joke at this point.

29/11/2017L01000An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Leader will respond in a few minutes.

29/11/2017L01100Senator Paul Gavan: The Leader had his chance to answer the question. The fact is that he has not given one good reason why the Taoiseach should not come in here. The reason is that there is a huge lack of confidence in the Taoiseach among Fine Gael Party members. He had his first major test and he failed it miserably so the Leader does not want to bring him in to answer our questions. That is the fact of the matter.

29/11/2017L01200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I thank the Senator.

29/11/2017L01300Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: We are glad to be back here today. Sinn Féin will always look at things negatively. Nobody won the last general election. Deputy Mícheál Martin and the Taoiseach met and found a solution to the latest crisis. What had to happen, had to happen, there had to be accountability, but at least we are making sure that the people are looked after. Sinn Féin is once again saying things that are not true. We are glad to be here today because-----

29/11/2017L01400Senator Paul Gavan: What about the health crisis, the homeless crisis-----

29/11/2017L01500Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: Exactly.

29/11/2017L01600Senator Paul Gavan: Fianna Fáil should be putting the Government out of power.

29/11/2017L01700Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: I read in today’s newspapers that yesterday a Galway court heard 82 repossessions. For that to happen three weeks before Christmas is a disaster.

29/11/2017L01800Senator David Norris: Hear, hear. It is a disgrace.

29/11/2017L01900Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: The tracker mortgage scandal is a blight on this country. Like the Famine, it has caused people to be turned out of their homes and families separated. We should be under no illusions about the effect it has had on thousands of lives, and 711 Seanad Éireann it will be felt for many years in the future.

29/11/2017L02000Senator Paul Gavan: How is Fianna Fáil looking after them? It is propping up the Gov- ernment.

29/11/2017L02100Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: We are not doing enough. The Central Bank calls for individual executives and board members of the Irish banks to be held accountable for overcharging of at least 20,000 mortgage customers. These calls are not enough. Threats of fines from the Government do not go far enough. For over 20 years these banks have been able to hoodwink us and it is not acceptable. What the banks are doing is wrong. We all agree on that, across the parties. Bankers deal in money and they hurt people most in their pockets. The bankers should be instructed to wipe away debt on their customers’ homes as they did on the millions owed by billionaires. We have no way to bring back lost homes, put marriages back together or bring back deceased loved ones but we can change how the banks behave in the future by hitting them where it hurts and by giving stability to families in the future. I call on the Minister for Finance to come before the House to address this. I have concerns. We need to play hardball with these bankers and give families stability.

29/11/2017L02200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator’s two minutes are up.

29/11/2017L02300Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: As a Government we can try and solve these issues. We can all work together.

29/11/2017L02400Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Who is in Government? They are all in this together, as a Government.

29/11/2017L02500Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: We are here in a confidence and supply agreement. At least we are trying to work and look after the people of the country.

29/11/2017L02600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator has gone well over time.

29/11/2017L02700Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: Sinn Féin has to have a rant every day.

29/11/2017L02800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Order. The Senator has had her say. I call Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile. I call order for the speaker.

29/11/2017L02900Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: I hope that my clock has not started yet.

29/11/2017L03000An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator need not worry.

29/11/2017L03100Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: I find it very funny, almost pantomime-esque when Senator Murnane O’Connor comes in here and accuses others of being negative.

29/11/2017L03200Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: Sinn Féin comes in here every day, and it will not go into Government.

29/11/2017L03300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Senator Murnane O’Connor is out of order. The only person who may respond is the Leader.

29/11/2017L03400Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: Okay.

29/11/2017L03500Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: It is fine. The Leader will defer to his partner in Government to respond for him. 712 29 November 2017 There is some tick-tack back and forward but it is not too much for the Members of this House to ask the Taoiseach to come before it, and the request should not be treated with such hostility, given the political crisis.

29/11/2017L03600Senator Jerry Buttimer: It is not hostile at all.

29/11/2017L03700Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: Maybe when we ask for it the Leader will not give us the kind of cheek that he has given us over this past session.

29/11/2017L03800Senator Jerry Buttimer: The Senators asked for it yesterday.

29/11/2017L03900Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: I want to add to the remarks by my colleague, Senator Ga- van, regarding today being the UN international day of solidarity with the Palestinian people. It is not to diminish the harsh reality faced by people in this city, and across the State and across Ireland in its entirety, as the homelessness crisis continues and we face into the winter months. Yet it pales into insignificance compared to what the people of Palestine, and especially Gaza, will face this winter. They will be without electricity, access to health care or the basics that many of us take for granted here. At all times, but especially as we approach Christmas, we should do our best to express solidarity with the Palestinian people.

Solidarity can take many different forms. It can go from raising it on the floor of Parliament to hosting a public meeting, attending a protest, observing a boycott or informing oneself about what is happening to the people of Palestine and what they are forced to endure. There is a particular onus on the people of Ireland given our own experience of conflict to share one form of solidarity, which is how we learned to transform our society out of conflict and build recon- ciliation. The best expression of solidarity with the Palestinian people is to work and commit ourself to ensuring a just and peaceful settlement for the people there.

29/11/2017L04000Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill: I want to highlight the debate taking place this evening on the horse and greyhound racing fund. The Leader agreed to my request that the debate be ex- tended beyond the original 45 minutes. We are looking at the allocation of some €64 million next year to the horse and greyhound racing fund. There are major issues within the greyhound sector. The Irish Greyhound Board will receive in the region of €307,000 in subvention per week next year. I ask that sufficient time be granted this evening so all interested Senators can partake in the debate. More important, I ask that the Minister stay to answer questions. I am not sure whether this can be facilitated.

I agree with Senator Gerard Craughwell on the approach of trying to get a political scalp. It is not the right way to serve our country in the best interest of citizens. Trying to take someone else out will not improve the accountability of the Government or the governance of our country, nor will it help those who require State services most. We must fundamentally rethink how we do government and how civil servants respond to requests from Ministers, this House and the Dáil, particularly at a very senior level. We must remember that the senior civil servants in this jurisdiction are not accountable at the ballot box. Therefore, serious questions arise over responsiveness, accountability, and the way organisations are managed, controlled and run.

There is a big question whose answer eludes us all - the question of whether the Department of Justice and Equality has been captured by the senior management within An Garda Síochána. We can all give our opinion or view. There is now a requirement, as we approach 100 years of independence, to review our Civil Service and determine whether it is fit for purpose? Is senior management held to account or not? This thinking could extend to the local government sector. 713 Seanad Éireann In my view, senior management across the local authorities is not held to account by councillors because the latter do not have the power to do so. Therefore, there is a real need to examine this.

It is easy to go after a politician, ask another Minister to step down, or go after the current Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Charlie Flanagan. That is not the right approach here. If we are to do the State some service — what happened over the weekend certainly did — we should be looking further than the political system. We must consider the core realm of responsibility across all Departments, which is at senior civil servant level.

29/11/2017M00200Senator David Norris: On a point of order, the Senator referred a number of times to Members going over their time. In the old Seanad Chamber, there was a clock. I suggest that a clock be put on the wall.

29/11/2017M00300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: There is a clock on the wall.

29/11/2017M00400Senator David Norris: It is terribly small; it is like a watch.

29/11/2017M00500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I have a clock here. It is the same as in the previous Chamber.

29/11/2017M00600Senator David Norris: Could I remind the House that, despite our many talents, Senators do not have eyes on the backs of their heads. If we are addressing the Chair, we cannot be looking at the clock.

29/11/2017M00700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Chair determines the order.

(Interruptions).

29/11/2017M00900An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senators are all out of order. I call on the Leader to respond.

29/11/2017M01000Senator Jerry Buttimer: I thank the 17 Members who contributed on the Order of Busi- ness. It definitely feels like a pantomime season here this morning.

29/11/2017M01100Senator Paul Gavan: The Leader is being hard on himself.

29/11/2017M01200Senator Jerry Buttimer: Níor chuala mé. Abair arís é.

29/11/2017M01300Senator Paul Gavan: I said the Leader is being hard on himself.

29/11/2017M01400Senator Jerry Buttimer: I have not started yet.

29/11/2017M01500Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: He is saying, “Oh, no, I am not.”

29/11/2017M01600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Please. I am glad the Senators are all in such good humour.

29/11/2017M01700Senator David Norris: I thought Sinn Féin was a non-interrupting party.

29/11/2017M01800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Please, Senator Norris.

29/11/2017M01900Senator Jerry Buttimer: Senators Ardagh, Humphreys, Leyden, Boyhan, Ó Clochartaigh and Ó Ríordáin raised the issue of Garda overtime. I would be very happy to have the Minister come to the House this evening. There is no need to be worried about that. Senator Humphreys should note that I always endeavour to work with all Members of the House to facilitate requests for debate.

714 29 November 2017

29/11/2017M02000Senator Terry Leyden: At what time is he coming in?

29/11/2017M02100An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Order, please. The Leader without interruption.

29/11/2017M02200Senator Jerry Buttimer: I am in the process of giving my reply.

29/11/2017M02300Senator Terry Leyden: The Leader said he is coming to the House.

29/11/2017M02400Senator David Norris: How could he possibly know the time?

29/11/2017M02500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Senator Leyden is out of order. He knows that. The Leader without interruption.

29/11/2017M02600Senator Jerry Buttimer: I will-----

29/11/2017M02700Senator Terry Leyden: The Senator is being very rude.

29/11/2017M02800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Senator Leyden should desist.

29/11/2017M02900Senator Jerry Buttimer: It ill-behoves Senator Leyden to act in such a manner. This was a matter that was put to the House by Senator Humphreys, who approached me before this debate to express that he was going to do this. This is not about political opportunism on his part, in fairness. Senator Leyden might do me and the House the courtesy of waiting for the reply, if he does not mind.

29/11/2017M03000Senator Terry Leyden: I jumped the gun.

29/11/2017M03100Senator Jerry Buttimer: The Senator does it every day. It ill-behoves him. The Minister will come to the House and I will be happy to work with the group leaders at our group meeting at 12.45 p.m. to arrange for a time. It is a very urgent matter. The comment this morning by the Assistant Commissioner was disturbing. I am not sure the way he made it was appropriate. It has implications for citizens, business owners and members of An Garda Síochána, as Senators Ardagh and Humphreys rightly said.

To answer Senator Leyden, if he listens to me, the Minister is to go before the committee tomorrow with a supplementary budget of €44.2 million under the Garda Vote. Senator Boyhan has the Order Paper for the committee tomorrow, which he did not reference. The €44.2 million is in addition to the 800 extra gardaí who have been recruited and the 500 civilians who will be recruited as the civilianisation of An Garda Síochána continues. Since we reopened Temple- more after Senator Leyden’s party closed it in when in government-----

29/11/2017M03200Senator Terry Leyden: Not again.

29/11/2017M03300Senator Jerry Buttimer: It is a fact. The Senator does not like the facts. Some 1,400 gardaí were recruited since Templemore was re-opened. To put matters in context, the overtime budget for the Garda for 2017 is €130 million. The budget for 2018 provides €100 million for overtime. The management and utilisation of the resources of the force are a matter for the Garda but, in saying that, it was disturbing and disappointing to hear the remarks that were made this morning. In that context and considering the gravity of the situation, I am accepting the amendment by Senator Humphreys to invite the Minister to the House this evening. I will be happy to do so. I accede to such requests by Members of the House on many occasions.

Senators Ó Ríordáin and Ardagh raised the very tragic loss of life of two citizens of our 715 Seanad Éireann State on the streets of Dublin this week. These two deaths occurred in very difficult and different circumstances. We should not judge the reasons the people passed away. It is important to put in context that all of us in this House, irrespective of our political ideologies or views, are committed to having and want to have the issues of homelessness and rough sleeping dealt with and addressed. That is why Rebuilding Ireland has taken an agency-based, multi-annual funding approach. It is why the Department, with the Dublin regional authorities, announced, through the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, an additional 200 emergency beds. Of these, 50 will be permanent. Equally, it is important to recognise that the Government is taking action through the cold weather initiative, not only in Dublin but also on the streets of Cork, Galway and elsewhere. It is important to recognise that work is being done. The deaths are tragic and we should not use them as a political football. On behalf of the House, we extend our sympathies to all the families who have lost loved ones this week. We are working on and committed to having the issue addressed.

Senator Billy Lawless raised the very important matter of the Supreme Court decision. It is important to note that the Government has established the interagency task force to examine the implications of the judgment and to put in place an appropriate response and solution by the Government. As the House knows, earlier this month the Government opted to accept the recommendation to opt into the recast EU reception conditions directive. In saying that, it is important that we have a debate in the House, as Senators Lawless and Ó Clochartaigh rightly said.

Both Senators Lawless and Ó Clochartaigh have raised the issue of the undocumented Irish in America in this House. It is important that there be a consistent approach. I fully subscribe to that. I will be happy to have a debate on it as soon as possible in the House.

I want to group the Sinn Féin contributions on the Taoiseach’s appearance in the House. If people choose to listen to me, I shall reiterate a point I made on a number of occasions. I do not operate on the basis of misinformation. I requested that the Taoiseach come to the House, and he has agreed. It is a matter of finding a suitable date and I have no issue in doing that. I have never hidden behind a veil of anybody not coming to the House, and the proof of that can be seen today with the Minister, Deputy Humphreys.

I will not accept the amendment to the Order of Business from the Sinn Féin Party, not because there is an element of fear or hiding but because it is about finding a suitable date for the Taoiseach to come to the House. When I have arranged that, the Taoiseach will be here before us, as the former Taoiseach was before he retired from office. I will work to have that done before the Christmas recess, if possible, or early in the new year. We have been in contact with the Office of the Taoiseach about a range of issues, not just the events of this week.

As regards the single transferable Sinn Féin speech, the Sinn Féin Senators can come back with another amendment or reply tomorrow. I understand the need to make political charges and engage in opportunism. That is what Senators try to do sometimes, and I accept that.

As a former Deputy and current Senator, I am very much aware of the importance of and need for Seanad Éireann. As Senator Marie-Louise O’Donnell said last week, we should not ape the Dáil. Constitutionally, we have a different set of requirements and duties, and it is important to recognise that. People should familiarise themselves with the Constitution. I have no issue bringing Members and Ministers into the House to discuss a range of issues.

716 29 November 2017 If Members come in to make political charges, that is fine. We have lost a Tánaiste and Min- ister yesterday on the basis of pure political opportunism by Sinn Féin, which brought down an Executive in the North and will not go into government in the South. The directive for the budget in the North allocated money to increase pay for front-line health staff, but the money cannot be spent because there is no Minister to sign a directive. Sinn Féin comes to the House purporting to represent workers’ rights when that is happening to workers in the North. That is the reality.

29/11/2017N00200Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: That is not true.

29/11/2017N00300Senator Jerry Buttimer: It is the reality.

29/11/2017N00400Senator Paul Gavan: You are wrong on that.

29/11/2017N00500Senator Jerry Buttimer: Of course I am wrong. They interrupt me when they do not get the answer they like.

29/11/2017N00600Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: I will interrupt the Leader listening to-----

29/11/2017N00700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Sorry, Senators-----

29/11/2017N00800Senator Jerry Buttimer: The Senator accused me-----

29/11/2017N00900An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I am sorry. I cannot allow any interruptions at that stage. Allow the Leader to conclude.

29/11/2017N01000Senator Jerry Buttimer: -----of interrupting, then when he did not get the answer-----

29/11/2017N01100An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Take that up again tomorrow.

29/11/2017N01200Senator David Norris: The Leader is evading the real issue.

29/11/2017N01300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Leader’s response, without interruption.

29/11/2017N01400Senator Jerry Buttimer: I join Senator Byrne in congratulating Des Fitzgerald on his act of bravery. It is fantastic that many engage in acts of heroism. I compliment him. I welcome the announcement by Willie Walsh regarding the development of new routes out of Shannon Airport. I think I answered Senator Norris’s question.

29/11/2017N01500Senator David Norris: It was a question of accountability about the conspiracy by the Garda-----

29/11/2017N01600Senator Jerry Buttimer: We can all engage in political gamesmanship, which we do. A process has been established called a tribunal of inquiry. Everybody I know in politics, at least on this side of the House, wants the tribunal on the case of Garda McCabe to reach its full conclusion and his good name to be upheld. The job of the tribunal is to find the full truth and establish the facts. If there is to be accountability, political or otherwise, let us have that after the tribunal makes its inquiry.

29/11/2017N01700Senator David Norris: No.

29/11/2017N01800Senator Jerry Buttimer: Long before last week, I said that the discovery of documents for a tribunal should not require an order from the Taoiseach and a trawl of information. It should be automatically provided----- 717 Seanad Éireann

29/11/2017N01900Senator David Norris: Complied with.

29/11/2017N02000Senator Jerry Buttimer: -----and complied with.

I welcome the family Senator Swanick mentioned, in particular Grace. Orphan drugs are important. As a former chair of a joint committee it is an issue of which I am very aware. I would be happy for the Minister to come to the House regarding the important issue he raised.

Before Senator Norris leaves us, it is our intention to pay tribute to him tomorrow on the Order of Business given the longevity of his service. I will make further comments tomorrow. I have always found Senator Norris a very kind and genuine Member of the House. One can dis- agree with him politically, but I have always found him to be a very genuine and caring person.

29/11/2017N02100Senator David Norris: I have found the Leader the same.

29/11/2017N02200Senator Jerry Buttimer: Out of respect to Senator Norris, if Members wish to make contributions on the Order of Business on his longevity of tenure and re-election-----

29/11/2017N02300Senator David Norris: I hope my longevity is assured, but I do not think the Seanad can do that.

29/11/2017N02400Senator Jerry Buttimer: One never knows.

29/11/2017N02500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: We look forward to that tomorrow.

29/11/2017N02600Senator Jerry Buttimer: On Senator Burke’s comments on the credit union movement, I would be happy to have a debate on that.

Senator Craughwell referred to an issue of accountability. I laughed at the opening the veil on the Sir Humphreys line. Many fine people work in the Houses of the Oireachtas and other Departments and do a fine job. We should not castigate everybody. I hope that we do not do that. There are very fine people from Departments working with us in the Seanad.

29/11/2017N02700Senator Terry Leyden: As well as the Department of Justice and Equality.

29/11/2017N02800Senator David Norris: The Senator seems to have an urge to be the Leader of the House.

29/11/2017N02900Senator Terry Leyden: I think I would do a very good job.

29/11/2017N03000Senator Jerry Buttimer: I am sure he would.

29/11/2017N03100An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Senator, you are entitled to your own opinion. You are not allowed to interrupt the Leader.

29/11/2017N03200Senator Jerry Buttimer: Senators Gavan and Ó Donnghaile raised the issue of the international day of solidarity for the Palestinian people. We all want to join with those comments. I have put the request for a debate to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney. He is anxious to have the debate in the House.

I agree with Senator Murnane O’Connor on repossessions. It is a blight and the banks should reflect on their actions. People have to be in court this week, for whatever reason. The Senator referred to Galway. I am not sure why people are before the courts. There are a wide variety of cases. It is incumbent upon the banks to work with everybody to ensure that no family is removed from their home. It is important that we all work to ensure that there is a resolu- 718 29 November 2017 tion which allows families to remain in their homes. We had a debate on tracker mortgages last week. I would be happy to have another debate in the coming weeks.

I spoke to Senator Ó Domhnaill yesterday about the horse and greyhound fund. It was in committee and there was a significant amount of scrutiny. I have made a request that he be allowed to participate in the debate. Despite what some Members might think, I do not want to discommode people or not allow them to speak. The Senator will have an opportunity to speak on that debate.

I am happy to accept Senator Humphreys’s amendment. I will work out the timing of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, coming to the House to discuss the Garda overtime and budget. I am working with the Office of the Taoiseach to make sure we have a date for him to come to the House. Therefore, I will not accept the amendment to the Order of Business from Sinn Féin.

29/11/2017N03300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Senator Devine has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: “That a debate with the Taoiseach on the way in which matters arising recently in respect of the Department of Justice and Equality have been managed would be taken today.” Is the amendment being pressed?

29/11/2017N03400Senator Máire Devine: It is.

Amendment put:

The Seanad divided: Tá, 14; Níl, 28. Tá Níl Bacik, Ivana. Ardagh, Catherine. Black, Frances. Burke, Colm. Craughwell, Gerard P. Burke, Paddy. Devine, Máire. Butler, Ray. Gavan, Paul. Buttimer, Jerry. Humphreys, Kevin. Byrne, Maria. Kelleher, Colette. Coffey, Paudie. Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig. Daly, Paul. Ó Céidigh, Pádraig. Davitt, Aidan. Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor. Feighan, Frank. Ó Domhnaill, Brian. Gallagher, Robbie. Ó Donnghaile, Niall. Hopkins, Maura. Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán. Lawless, Billy. Ruane, Lynn. Leyden, Terry. Lombard, Tim. McFadden, Gabrielle. Mulherin, Michelle. Mullen, Rónán. Murnane O’Connor, Jennifer. Noone, Catherine. Norris, David. 719 Seanad Éireann O’Donnell, Kieran. O’Donnell, Marie-Louise. O’Mahony, John. O’Reilly, Joe. O’Sullivan, Ned. Richmond, Neale. Swanick, Keith.

Tellers: Tá, Senators Máire Devine and Trevor Ó Clochartaigh; Níl, Senators Gabrielle Mc- Fadden and John O’Mahony.

Amendment declared lost.

29/11/2017P00200Visit of Monaghan Delegation

29/11/2017P00300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Before we move on to the next amendment I welcome to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery a distinguished delegation from Monaghan, so ably led by Dr. Rory O’Hanlon, former Minister and Ceann Comhairle. The members of the delegation are very welcome.

29/11/2017P00400Order of Business (Resumed)

29/11/2017P00500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: There is a further amendment to the Order of Business. Senator Kevin Humphreys has moved an amendment to the Order of Business: “That a debate with the Minister for Justice and Equality on the adequacy of policing arrangements in Dublin at the end of this year would be taken today.”

Amendment agreed to.

Order of Business, as amended, agreed to.

29/11/2017P00800Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (Amendment) Bill 2017: Second Stage

29/11/2017P00900Senator Robbie Gallagher: I move: “That the Bill be now read a Second Time.”

Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit agus fosta roimh mhuintir Charraig Mha- chaire Rois atá anseo inniu. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy John Paul Phelan, to the Chamber. I also welcome the delegation from Monaghan. I wish in particular to mention the three councillors from the Carrickmacross and Castleblaney areas, Pádraig, P.J. and Aidan, as well as the former Ceann Comhairle, Dr. Rory O’Hanlon. Deputy Niamh Smyth is also present. I welcome all those from Carrickmacross who are present.

This amendment to the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978 is a very important amendment to existing legislation which enables a tenant under certain prescribed conditions the opportunity to buy out the freehold of their premises. I am delighted to be able to introduce this Bill which seeks to amend sections 9 and 10 of the Act. I know this will be 720 29 November 2017 very welcomed in my constituency because it directly affects a lot of businesses on the west side of Carrickmacross and indeed many other towns and cities throughout the country. The need for the amendment has arisen from a Supreme Court ruling in 2012. A recent documentary produced and edited by Pat Byrne of Carraige Productions and presented by Michael Fisher highlighted the issues which arose from very protracted litigation between the O’Gorman family of Carrickmacross and what is known locally as the Shirley Estate. The documentary cov- ers the attempt by Gus O’Gorman, a local supermarket owner, to buy out his freehold, and the struggles he had which went through every level of the courts from the County Registrar all the way to the Supreme Court. Gus and his con Cathal are here with us today. I pay tribute to the O’Gorman family for their huge effort and commitment to the issue. Part of the reason we are here today is because of them.

It highlighted the problem that any remaining tenant with a qualifying lease would have, on the face of it, in buying the freehold under the existing legislation. Tenants who had thought they could buy out the freehold in the premises they occupy would find they may 1 o’clock not be able to do so in light of the interpretation of the Supreme Court in respect of two key elements, namely, what buildings were involved and what constituted a “predecessor in title”. This amendment will seek to resolve these issues and enable a tenant to go forward and buy out the lease, giving such people business certainty to be able to reinvest and grow businesses. It will also confirm the original intention of both Houses of the Oireach- tas, which was to confer rights on tenants who had long occupation of premises and had developed such premises at their own expense.

The interest created by the documentary referred to earlier has brought the landlord and tenant issue sharply into focus. I give special credit to Mr. Pat Byrne, who is responsible for that documentary. He put his heart and soul into what was a very impressive piece of work. In no small way did it contribute to us being here today. It highlighted the fact that a number of lawyers, both in the academic world and in practice, had serious reservations regarding the judgment of the Supreme Court. Arising from a meeting that was set up with Deputy Jim O’Callaghan by the former Ceann Comhairle, Dr. Rory O’Hanlon, Mr. Byrne introduced Pro- fessor John Wylie, the leading academic on all matters relating to land law and who featured in the documentary, to Mr. Tony Donagher, a Carrickmacross-based solicitor, who was also interviewed in the documentary. Together, over the summer, they have provided the draft Bill I am introducing today.

I thank my fellow Oireachtas Members from all parties, including the Minister, Deputy Heather Humphreys, and Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin for their support with this proposed amendment. I also thank the county councillors from the Carrickmacross and Castleblayney municipal district, some of whom are here today. I also mention Deputies Brendan Smith and Niamh Smyth. Many other people have helped to get this Bill to where it is today and I thank them sincerely for their work in this regard.

I hope this Bill passes through here successfully today in order that businesspeople in Carrickmacross on the west side of the street will finally get total control of their buildings and put their minds at rest in order that they can continue in the knowledge of business certainty in future.

29/11/2017Q00200Senator Catherine Ardagh: I second the motion. I wish to share time with Senator Ley- den.

721 Seanad Éireann

29/11/2017Q00300Acting Chairman (Senator Catherine Noone): Is that agreed? Agreed.

29/11/2017Q00400Senator Catherine Ardagh: I welcome Pádraig, P. J. and Aidan to the House, as well as the former Ceann Comhairle, Dr. Rory O’Hanlon, and Deputy Niamh Smyth. The O’Gorman family have really been committed to making good the law as it relates to ground rents.

Ground rent is still paid in parts of the country and we are very familiar with the Marquess of Ely’s estate, Lord Lucan’s estate and the estate we are discussing, the Shirley estate. It is a payment for the ground on which a property is built. Generally, the freehold titles in Ireland tend to be owned by local authorities, but in certain areas around the country we have these miscellaneous estates left over from before independence.

The Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) Act 1978 gives a lessee a general right to acquire a fee simple interest. This is an important right for many reasons. Lending institutions, for example, will not give loans on a leasehold property that has fewer than 70 years left to run. In other words, a leasehold title with fewer than 70 years left is not considered good marketable title. House owners eliminate this as a problem generally by acquiring the freehold. It is very easy to do this with local authorities, but it is much more difficult when one comes across more difficult landlords that own the reversionary interests. Uncertainty has followed the Supreme Court case highlighted by my colleague, and this gives rise to the need for the amendments contained in this Bill. The Supreme Court decision has been widely criticised by both academ- ics and legal practitioners. Mr. Wylie, the leading expert on land law has described the decision as “odd” and “surprising”. Nonetheless, the position needs to be rectified and that needs to be done through amending legislation, which is before the House today.

In 2012, the Supreme Court interpreted two sections of the Act in such a manner as to hamper severely the ability of leaseholders, such as the O’Gormans in the Gallery today, to secure the compulsory sale of the fee simple. The interpretations related to what buildings were involved and what constituted a predecessor in title. The two amendments provided for in the Bill specifically address these two matters. The amendments sought in this Bill will confirm the original intention of the Oireachtas, which was to confer rights on tenants who had long occupation of premises and who had developed those premises at their own expense. The Supreme Court decision has created great uncertainty, particularly for business owners who are reluctant to invest in their premises as it is unclear whether they would be successful in an application to acquire compulsorily the fee simple in the premises.

29/11/2017Q00500Senator Terry Leyden: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy John Paul Phelan, to the House and thank him for coming. I support the Private Members’ Bill from my colleague, Sen- ator Robbie Gallagher, and congratulate him on bringing the Bill before the House. I welcome in the Gallery Mr. Gus O’Gorman and his son, Cathal, who were instrumental in bringing this to the fore. They fought very bravely in the Supreme Court. It is quite amazing these ground rents still exist nearly 100 years on from achieving our constitutional freedom. When I was in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs in 1982, I discovered the GPO was owned by some British landlord, which was quite amazing at the time. I believe it has been bought out since, or at least I hope it was bought out before the 1916 ceremonies. I also welcome my former colleague, Dr. Rory O’Hanlon, a former Minister and Ceann Comhairle. It has been 30 years since he and I served in the Department of Health. It was between 1987 and 1989 and we worked very well in that Department in a very difficult period. I also welcome to the House Pádraig, P. J. and Aidan, as well as Deputy Niamh Smyth, who is from the Monaghan area.

722 29 November 2017 I am quite hopeful the Minister will welcome and support this amending Bill, which is very practical. It demonstrates new politics, in a way, as we can bring forward a Private Members’ Bill and get support from the Government side. In the past this would have been opposed, as it was with my Registration of Wills Bill. I hope this might be brought forward as well with this great new relationship, which is very positive. I am sure Dr. O’Hanlon is particularly surprised to see this new politics in action. It is a true indication of how active it is when we see such goodwill on the opposite side in this regard.

29/11/2017Q00600Senator Paudie Coffey: It is the new Senators.

29/11/2017Q00700Senator Terry Leyden: Yes, and there is a new approach to politics. The weekend’s events were difficult for everyone involved and I am thankful we are not facing a general election before Christmas and we all came to an agreement at the end of the day. We are back in business and the confidence and supply is still there. The agreement will be supported and I hope there will not be any other difficulties.

29/11/2017Q00800Acting Chairman (Senator Catherine Noone): Please speak to the Bill.

29/11/2017Q00900Senator Terry Leyden: I am trying to give the Acting Chairman some assurance. I am sure she was not looking forward to a winter election.

29/11/2017Q01000Acting Chairman (Senator Catherine Noone): I was very nervous about my committee.

29/11/2017Q01100Senator Terry Leyden: Yes. You have work in a committee and many people would have been delighted if it had collapsed. That is neither here nor there. Some people might have seen the bright side.

29/11/2017Q01200Acting Chairman (Senator Catherine Noone): Could we keep to the point?

29/11/2017Q01300Senator Terry Leyden: I think you are sensitive about that.

29/11/2017Q01400Acting Chairman (Senator Catherine Noone): I am not a bit sensitive. The Senator is making irrelevant comments.

29/11/2017Q01500Senator Terry Leyden: Not really. They are not irrelevant. I wish this Bill success. In his first term as Senator, it is marvellous for Senator Gallagher to get this Bill through. I hope it will get through the Dáil. It is very positive work. Mr. Gus O’Gorman and his son, Cathal, deserve great credit for the efforts they made in trying to vindicate their rights as Irish citizens. Well done. This is a good day for the Seanad.

29/11/2017Q01600Senator Paudie Coffey: I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I also welcome the opportunity to debate this Bill. I commend the Bill’s sponsor, Senator Robbie Gallagher, on bringing it to the House because it is an example of how the Seanad can work together to identify problems and barriers felt by our citizens, bringing forth legislation that we can work on. As Senators are aware, legislation is not always perfect when first presented and I am sure the Bill before us is not perfect. I come from a locality, Portlaw, County Waterford, where people have experienced many difficulties with the transfer of lands and ownership issues arising from ground rents and the problems they present. With the greatest respect to the property rights of landlords and others, it is important in a modern society to have legal mechanisms that allow businesses, residents and citizens to transact business in an efficient manner without encoun- tering expensive court challenges and problems such as those experienced by the O’Gorman family. I, too, acknowledge the members of the O’Gorman family and the delegation present in 723 Seanad Éireann the Visitors Gallery who have, I expect, provided the motivation for this legislation. I also think of the many citizens around the country who have experienced similar problems. I support the Bill for this reason and my party is generally supportive of it.

I will leave it to the Minister of State to set out the detailed reasons we will not oppose the Bill as it stands. I am sure he will outline any amendments or clarifications that may be required to progress it to the next Stage. This is an example of how Senators from all sides can work together.

Senator Leyden referred to new politics. The newer Senators may be less adversarial that Senator Leyden and others with whom we have had many a row. It is good that we can work together to progress legislation in a positive manner. I recognise the work done by various people. I thank Senator Gallagher for acknowledging the work done by the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys. I also acknowledge the work done by my party colleague, Councillor Aidan Campbell, who is present in the Gallery. It is important that councillors provide feedback to the House on the problems experienced by their electors.

It is up to the Minister and Government of the day, in this case, the Minister of State, Deputy John Paul Phelan, to respond to the legislation. I hope the Government will introduce amendments that will strengthen the Bill and further the objectives of its proposers and sponsors.

While this is not the Minister of State’s area of responsibility, all of us are aware of the problems caused by old title deeds when older properties are being transferred, purchased or transacted. In such circumstances, people submit applications to the land registry office. While the land registry system is extremely good for those who are in the system and having their file dealt with, there is a long waiting time to have files processed. This is an important issue, although it may fall within the remit of another Department. I ask the Minister of State to use his good offices in this respect, given that the Bill is before the Houses and there is a new focus on those seeking to transact business in a legal and proper way who encounter barriers because old legislation needs to be updated or as a result of outdated bureaucracy related to ground rents and title deeds. It is important that resources are invested in land registry offices to clean up title deeds and allow people to transact business.

I refer to the example of a community group in my local area which wishes to renovate a property. Although it qualifies for State grants, the old title deeds to the property have raised issues regarding leaseholds and ground rents which need to be clarified. This is a complex area with which, I suspect, solicitors must often wrangle. I mean no disrespect to solicitors who must do their job and I know the Acting Chairman, Senator Noone, is a solicitor. These types of issues cause untold frustration for people who are trying to progress property transactions. We need to modernise the processing system for property in the land registry.

I commend Senator Gallagher on his Bill, which the Fine Gael Party supports and will not oppose on Second Stage. The Minister of State will speak in detail on some clarifications and amendments the Government will introduce.

29/11/2017R00200Acting Chairman (Senator Catherine Noone): I share the Senator’s view that this is a complex area. I also commend Senator Gallagher on introducing the Bill.

29/11/2017R00300Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus cuirim fáilte áirithe roimh na haíonna speisialta atá againn sa Ghailearaí inniu. Tá cuid acu ag troid leis na mblianta fada ar an mBille seo. Déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Seanadóir Robbie Gallagher 724 29 November 2017 maidir leis an mBille seo a thabhairt chun cinn. Tá sé an-tábhachtach agus beidh muide ag tab- hairt tacaíocht iomlán dó. I apologise in advance for leaving the Chamber when my contribution concludes. I have to attend a committee meeting elsewhere in the Houses. Ba mhaith liom a rá go bhfuil fadhbanna tithíochta chomh dona sin anois gur cheart Fianna Fáil a bheith ag tacú leis an reachtaíocht eile a bhí ann againne chun cíosanna a laghdú agus chun cinnteacht a thabhairt do thionóntaí. Cén fáth nár thacaigh siad, mar shampla, leis an mBille um Chinnteacht Cíosa? Cuireann muid fáilte roimh an mBille seo sa Seanad inniu, áfach.

I pay tribute again to the work of the Shirley Tenants Action Group in Carrickmacross which has been active on this issue. The initial case taken by Mr. Gus O’Gorman many years ago highlighted the need for new legislation to amend the 1978 Act. Such legislation has been promised in Fianna Fáil Party manifestos since that time. My colleague, Teachta Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, has consistently asked, almost since entering the Dáil in 1997, when a Bill would be published. It is hard to believe the economic development of part of Carrickmacross is being held up by an absentee landlord who is currently basking in the Isle of Man.

Last year, it was revealed that the State was paying ground rent to landlords such as the Earl of Pembroke for buildings on Merrion Square and the Duke of Leinster who owns land where the National Library of Ireland is located. These ground rents, which are a legacy of our colo- nial past, are also known as leaseholds. The State’s ground rent bill for Iveagh House, in which the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade presides, is paid to an absentee landlord. The same applies to Dublin Castle. In these years of the centenary we are perpetuating a system that is a hangover of colonialism. The money involved is relatively small. The ground rent for Iveagh House is a mere €257, while the ground rent for the Four Courts is a mere €200 and the bill for Dublin Castle is only €7. However, there are 250,000 ground rents in the State which have an impact on individual home owners who wish to sell their homes but must require the freehold to do so.

This is not simply a question of being hostile to English landlords. The majority of ground leases are on private households, which means they are paid by people who own their home but do not always own the land on which it is built. The formula for the new ground rent per annum is computed on the basis of the open value rental value of the house. Many of those who find themselves in this invidious position are elderly and have no income other than their pension.

Many Irish developers built houses before 1978. Sisk, for example, continues to collect ground rents from a large number of households in Dublin. Many of the properties in question have leases of 999 years and many of those who wish to buy out the ground rent complain of high fees such as search and lawyer fees which can put them off engaging in the process in the first instance. No one knows the true position because many householders who owe ground rents are older people who are afraid to speak publicly and do not wish to refuse to pay. Many fear that when the lease ends they will not be able to afford to buy out the lease or pay the substantial increase in ground rent which may be demanded.

I hope the Bill succeeds in highlighting the vulnerable nature of tenancy in general. Ground rent landlords demand money for nothing. They are parasites gorging themselves on the sweat and tears of ordinary working people. They have no place in a just society and it is to our shame that we have allowed this system to persist for so long.

Another illustration of the peculiar attitude of successive Governments to landlordism is the reluctance to tackle landlords in the private rented sector. The demands of tenants in the private 725 Seanad Éireann rented sector in recent years, namely, a fair rent and security of tenure, do not differ significantly from the demands made by peasant farmers in the 19th century. It is not, as we are often told, a question of balancing the rights of tenants and landlords as the home of the former is merely the business interest of the latter. I note that even on the Order of Business this morning the issue of evictions was raised by Senator Murnane O’Connor. An eviction of a person today is no different from the reality depicted in the iconic photographs of evictions taken during the late 1880s, except today we do not see the faces of the evicted and their voices are not recorded. The Government certainly does not hear them.

Davitt was guided by the motto, “Let justice be done though the heavens fall”. I doubt he would be impressed by the propensity of successive Governments to prostrate themselves in the interests of unfettered landlordism. It is time to take up Davitt’s fight again and ensure justice is done. Sinn Féin supports this legislation. Perhaps in the days ahead we will also discuss the claims made by landlords who are not resident in the State to our rivers, lakes, mineral supplies and other natural resources.

29/11/2017S00100Senator Paul Daly: I wish to be associated with the warm welcome to our distinguished guests in the Gallery, and I compliment my colleague, Senator Gallagher, on bringing this Bill forward. The apparently unanimous support for the Bill across the House shows its importance. The point that often is lost is that while this is not a big headline-getter and is not top-of-the-bill news, it is a major crisis for those whom it involves, when they come across the problem of exchange of holdings. There has been much talk here this morning, in the aftermath of the weekend we had, about new politics and how we in the Senate can work together. However, with this Bill alone, Senator Gallagher has shown the effectiveness of the old politics of the Senator working with the councillor and the people on the ground who are affected by problems. By introducing legislation and bringing it to this Stage, he has demonstrated that. It does not have to be all new politics - the old system can be equally effective.

29/11/2017S00200Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (Dep- uty John Paul Phelan) (Deputy John Paul Phelan): At the outset, I wish to acknowledge the former Ceann Comhairle. When I was a Member of this House, he was the Ceann Comhairle of the other House. I did not have any opportunity to cross him then and I do not think I will have any opportunity to cross him now. I also acknowledge the other people from Monaghan who are here; Councillor Campbell, whom I have known for years, and in particular the O’Gormans. I was actually studying land law in the King’s Inns when the Shirley v. O’Gorman case was happening. I must state that I found the study of land law quite tedious even though I am a farmer’s son. However, the facts, issues and matters that are contained therein are fundamental for Irish people. I refer to the ability to own one’s own house or property and note the foundation of the State has its origins in the battle for the land, as it was, at the end of the 19th century, and the subsequent Land Acts that led to most landed estates being broken up.

Right across the country, however, not least in my own part of the south east, the issue of ground rents still remains contentious. I went to school not in County Kilkenny but in New Ross, County Wexford. The Tottenham estate still owns much of the ground rent in that particular town. I commend Senators Gallagher, Ardagh and Swanick on their proposal of this Bill, and state from the outset that the Government will not be opposing it. In principle, we agree with what the Senators are trying to address. It contains proposals to amend the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978 to facilitate acquisition of freehold titles by lessees and ground rent tenants. I also acknowledge the efforts of Senator Coffey. The Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Humphreys, has been in contact with me about this 726 29 November 2017 before. While I am taking this Bill for the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, it is fair to say that the local government area for which I am responsible also encroaches on this area.

That said, I must admit a vested interest in this regard. I bought a house in Dublin before the economic collapse and am what one might term an accidental landlord. Senator Ó Clochar- taigh’s comments, likening people who are renting out private houses at present with the old British landlords and the ground rent landlords across the country, were outrageous. Lest we forget, many of the people who own these ground rents are Irish citizens, not British landlords. Some are British, as outlined by Senator Ardagh, but a lot of them are people who are residents or citizens here. However, it is correct and proper to amend this Act from 1978, the year I was born. Moreover, I commend the O’Gormans. It is good to see that they are here. They took a long legal road to assert their rights and they represent many citizens across the country who find themselves in a similar situation.

I add, however, that the Bill requires detailed scrutiny to ensure its consistency with the property rights safeguards in the Constitution, as well as coherence with other statutory provisions governing the purchase of ground rents. The Minister informs me that his Department is consulting with the Office of the Attorney General on these issues. Arising from this, he expects to be in a position to table a number of Committee Stage amendments in due course.

As Senators will be aware, the rights of tenants occupying property under long leases to acquire freehold title has been a contentious issue since at least the 19th century. Such tenants normally pay a small yearly rent to the ground rent landlord and the issues that arise are the nature and extent of the tenant’s right to acquire the freehold title.

Statutory reforms since the 1960s have strengthened the rights of such tenants to acquire a freehold in the property. The Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) Act 1967 gave statutory effect to the principal recommendation of the report of the Ground Rents Commission chaired by Judge Conroy. Under the Act, certain ground rent tenants, including both business and residential tenants, acquired the right to purchase the ground rent in their property.

The Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) Act 1978 prohibited the creation of new ground rents in respect of dwellings. Leases after that date are only valid if they operate as a renewal of an existing lease. The Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978 gave the Land Registry, now the Property Registration Authority, responsibility for operating a low-cost scheme for tenants acquiring the freehold of dwelling houses.

To date, more than 80,000 ground rents have been bought out under this statutory scheme. These important statutes seek to establish an appropriate balance between a tenant’s right to acquire the freehold title for reasons of public interest on the one hand, and the property rights of ground rent landlords, that are protected under Article 40.3 and Article 43 of the Constitution on the other.

The Private Members’ Bill we are discussing today seeks to address what are seen as adverse consequences for ground rent tenants arising from the Supreme Court ruling of 2012. On 2 February 2012, the Supreme Court delivered its judgment in the protracted legal proceedings of Shirley v O’Gorman, which concerned the right of ground rent tenants to purchase ground rents in their properties in certain circumstances. The case arose from an application to acquire freehold title in Carrickmacross, County Monaghan. While the tenant’s application in this case

727 Seanad Éireann was ultimately successful, the manner in which the Supreme Court interpreted certain technical provisions of the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978 effectively narrowed the scope of the ground rents purchase scheme under that Act. The ruling means that certain ground rent tenants who had been eligible to acquire the freehold title in their properties may no longer be able to do so. This narrowing of the grounds on which a ground rent tenant is permitted to acquire freehold title affects other ground rent tenants in Carrickmacross and elsewhere in the State. As mentioned earlier, a ground rent tenant’s right to acquire the freehold in property, that is, to purchase the ground rent, was first introduced in the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) Act 1967. While this legislation remains relevant in the case of many commercial properties, the later Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978 contains the statutory rules that generally apply to acquisition of the freehold title in the case of dwellings.

Sections 9 and 10 of the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978 specify the criteria that determine a ground rent tenant’s eligibility to acquire the freehold title in the case of dwellings. Section 9 provides, inter alia, that such tenants have a right to acquire freehold title where there are permanent buildings on the land, these buildings are not an “improvement” within the meaning of the Act, and one of the conditions set out in section 10 also applies to the property.

One of the most widely used conditions in section 10, condition no. 2, is where the lease in question is for a period of less than 50 years and the annual ground rent is less than the rateable valuation of the property. Moreover, while this condition recognises that there were buildings already on the land when such a lease was granted, there is a statutory presumption arising from the fact that the rent is at a low level to the effect that the buildings were not erected by the ground rent landlord or the landlord’s predecessor in title. However, that presumption may be rebutted in any particular case.

In its ruling in the Shirley v O’Gorman case, the Supreme Court took the view that the ground rent tenant is ineligible to acquire the freehold unless all the buildings had been built by him or her and not by the landlord. The court also ruled that the definition of “predecessors in title” should be interpreted in a wide manner to include works by all previous owners, that is, not only the ground rent landlord but also any earlier tenants of the property in cases in which the landlord had taken repossession between tenancies.

The overall effect of the ruling in the Shirley v O’Gorman case is to narrow the scope of the ground rent purchase scheme. The Private Members’ Bill before the House today seeks to address the matters arising from the Supreme Court in this ruling by means of amendments to sections 9 and 10 of the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act 1978. In Section 9, the Bill proposes to repeal both subsection 1(b) and subsection 2, which contain the “improvement” conditions. Instead, the Bill proposes the insertion of a revised definition of “permanent buildings” in a new subsection 6. It would provide that the right to acquire the freehold would in future apply where additions, alterations or extensions to the original buildings had caused it to lose its original identity or had caused an extension in its usable area by not less than 50%. In addition, the Bill proposes an amendment to condition 2 in section 10 that would seek to make it clear that the reference to “predecessor in title” would exclude any building works carried out by any previous tenants of the property.

There is merit in the Bill’s objective to broaden ground rents tenants’ right to acquire the fee simple of property and that is why the Government has decided not to oppose it today. In fact, we are quite supportive of what the Bill seeks to do. However, as I mentioned earlier, a 728 29 November 2017 number of references in the Bill require careful scrutiny to ensure that they do not clash with existing ground rent legislation. The Minister refers particularly to references to “extension of its usable area” and “previous holder of the lessee’s interest”. The Minister is, of course, anxious to ensure that any amendments to ground rents legislation will not lead to further litigation challenging its constitutionality. That is why I have indicated that certain Committee Stage amendments may be required following completion of the examination that is currently taking place in the Office of the Attorney General.

As I have stated, the Government supports broadly the policy objective in terms of the gaps the Bill seeks to fill and will not be opposing it on Second Stage. Moreover, any future amendments that may be tabled at later Stages will seek to ensure that the Bill’s provisions are coherent with other ground rents legislation and consistent with the Constitution.

29/11/2017T00200Senator Robbie Gallagher: I thank sincerely the Minister of State for his comments and all the Senators who have contributed to this debate. There is much talk nowadays about new politics. This is an example of good politics. This is a good idea that is shared by all political classes and people are rowing in behind it. Legislation can address an issue that has been hanging over not just Carrickmacross but many other towns throughout the country. I acknowledge all the work that has been done by everyone involved in this particular issue in Carrickmacross for many the long year. It is down to their collective efforts that we are here today discussing this issue. I look forward to the Bill moving on to Committee Stage. I note the Minister of State’s comments about having a job of work to do at his end. Based on the input of legal experts throughout the country, I am confident the Minister of State’s job of work will be a short one and I look forward to dealing with the Bill on Committee Stage and early in the new year in order that we can move it forward again. The people of Carrickmacross and other parts of the country will finally have released the grip on them currently and they will be able to move forward and expand their businesses confident that they have total control of all matters.

Question put and agreed to.

29/11/2017T00400Acting Chairman (Senator Michelle Mulherin): When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

29/11/2017T00500Senator Paudie Coffey: Next Tuesday.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 5 December 2017.

Sitting suspended at 1.35 p.m. and resumed at 2.50 p.m.

29/11/2017BB00100Business of Seanad

29/11/2017BB00200Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): I call the Leader to make a short announcement.

29/11/2017BB00300Senator Jerry Buttimer: With the co-operation of the House, I wish to propose an amendment to the Order of Business to the effect that No. 6a on the Supplementary Order Paper, statements on the Garda overtime budget, be taken on the conclusion of No. 6, Second Stage of the Diplomatic Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017 or at 8 p.m., whichever is later, with the time allocated to this debate not to exceed one hour and the contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes each. Time can be shared and the Minister will be 729 Seanad Éireann given no less than five minutes to reply to the debate.

29/11/2017BB00400Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): Is that agreed? Agreed.

29/11/2017BB00500Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015: Statements

29/11/2017BB00600Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment (Deputy Denis Naughten): The Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015 requires that an annual transition statement be presented to the Houses of the Oireachtas. The 2017 statement is the second such statement under the Act. In addition to the oral report, I am arranging for a written statement to be laid before the Houses in advance of the statutory deadline of 10 De- cember. The Act prescribes that the annual transition statement should include an overview of the mitigation and adaptation policy measures adopted by the Government, details on emission inventories and projections, and a report on compliance with Ireland’s obligations under EU law and relevant international agreements. I will address these elements during my statement.

As reported by the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, on Monday, Ireland’s emissions increased by 3.5% between 2015 and 2016. This is disappointing and highlights the urgent need to decouple economic growth from carbon emissions and energy demand. Our economy remains the strongest performer in the EU, with GDP increasing by 5.2% in 2016, and we are once again approaching full employment, all of which puts pressure on emissions, especially in terms of transport, energy use and construction. The EPA expects Ireland’s emissions to continue to increase until at least the end of the decade, which makes it even more imperative that Ireland take further steps to arrest this trend.

The Government’s framework for taking action to reduce our emissions is the national mitigation plan, which sets out more than 70 individual measures to reduce emissions. Progress on the implementation of these measures is reported in the annual transition statement. The plan also provides the framework for further work on the medium to long-term measures to make the necessary deeper emission reductions in future decades. The mitigation plan is not a static document and must be formally reviewed once every five years.

29/11/2017BB00700Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): I am sorry, but I believe there is a point of order. Is a copy of the Minister’s script available?

29/11/2017BB00800Senator Ivana Bacik: We do not need a copy of it if it is read out in the House.

29/11/2017BB00900Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): Okay.

29/11/2017BB01000Deputy Denis Naughten: I understand that it is on its way.

29/11/2017BB01100Senator Grace O’Sullivan: I thank the Minister.

29/11/2017BB01200Senator Tim Lombard: It is the new green outlook.

29/11/2017BB01300Deputy Denis Naughten: When it comes to encouraging action on climate change, people cannot be commanded. They must be consulted. As part of the effort to engage with communities, I am leading a national dialogue on climate action, which will help to drive awareness around specific steps that people can take in their daily lives to try to tackle climate change. The dialogue will provide an ongoing opportunity to capture the views and concerns of citizens

730 29 November 2017 around the country as we work to achieve the national transition objective. The climate dialogue will build on the work that has already commenced in the Citizens’ Assembly and feed into the overall process.

We are in the process of completing the national adaptation framework, which is covered under the annual transition statement. I will shortly submit a final framework to the Govern- ment for approval. This will provide a clear strategy to Departments and local government for preparing and implementing adaptation plans and strategies within their own jurisdictions.

One of the main questions facing everyone is how to make a meaningful contribution to this challenge. How can any country, particularly a small one like Ireland, make a practical difference? Small countries do not have the capacity or resources to do everything, but we can do some things well and show an example that others can follow. Small countries face unique challenges, but these also provide opportunities for unique solutions. The Paris Agreement is about every country, great and small, taking action.

Prior to attending COP23 in Bonn, I received approval from the Government to join the NDC Partnership, which allows Ireland and other countries to share our understanding, knowledge, experiences and technologies that we have developed so that member states across the world can benefit and learn from one another about the measures that can be taken.

I am trying to engage with the public in a meaningful way and to connect the global and long-term challenge of climate change with the here and now. One of the main challenges facing us is how to convince people that we need to take steps now that will benefit their children and grandchildren. The difficulty is that people and governments tend to kick the can down the road in that respect.

A practical example of dealing with the challenges here and now in a way that benefits us today as well as the overall climate agenda is the national clean air strategy. That strategy is a fundamental building block for meeting our challenges because it brings the climate issue into every home. Last year, the then Secretary General of the UN, Mr. Ban Ki-moon, said: “Clean energy policies reduce air pollution [...] Human health and the environment both win.” This is why I believe that air quality is central to Ireland’s energy efficiency programme and overall climate agenda.

In March, Ireland hosted the first clean air dialogue with the European Commission in Dublin to promote actions to improve air quality and contribute to Ireland’s implementation of the EU’s clean air legislation. Air pollution is not just an environmental or climate 3 o’clock problem. It threatens our natural resources, and the one big natural resource that Ireland has is its people, so it threatens their health and well-being. Consider the economic costs of lost work days and health care. Given that air quality is directly associated with an average of four deaths in Ireland every day and one in five children in this country suf- fers asthma, it must be a priority for the Government.

Our new clean air strategy is already being acted upon. We are doubling the number of air monitoring stations across the country.

We are now in a global project with NASA called Global Learnings and Observations to Benefit the Environment, GLOBE, where we are linking up schools in the vicinity of those particular air monitoring stations with other schools across the globe so we can look at how our air quality is today and benchmark that against the improvements that need to take place. One 731 Seanad Éireann of the significant steps we are going to take is that within the next 12 months we are going to ban the burning of smoky coal in this country. That will have a significant impact in the short term on air quality but in the longer term as well on climate. Ireland has also taken a lead role in implementing the Kigali Protocol. We were one of the first signatories to give a commitment of funding to work with the developing world to implement the Kigali Protocol. Its objective is reducing global warming by 0.5°C. Including the cooling element of Kigali, which is making air conditioning more efficient, can achieve another 0.5°C. I have already approved laying before both Houses a motion for the adoption of the Kigali Protocol which I hope to have adopted within the coming weeks.

We have all seen the challenges that we have regarding climate across this country. We have seen it with Storm Ophelia and the severe flooding that we have had over the last decade. It is not just about dealing with the future and the challenges of emissions but also how do we adapt to the changes that have already happened. We are working with local authorities on that. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Moran, has been doing a lot of work on flood adaptation measures across the country, particularly in the midlands region. I want to commend him for his announcement last week on measures that are going to take place in the Shannon Basin to clean up 18 pinch points within the River Shannon and remove Melick Weir. That is going to have a significant impact on the flooding that we have seen in the Shannon callows in recent years and is going to potentially drop the level of the river between 1 ft and 1.5 ft. We have an awful lot more work to do in terms of adaptation and in addressing the emissions that we are producing on a domestic level and overall as a country.

Transport is one of the challenges. Small countries have unique challenges. We have a particular challenge in Ireland because of the dispersed population. Villages of fewer than 50 people make up 27% of our population. Traditional transport solutions will not work here in Ireland. That is why the national broadband plan is so critically important to reducing overall transport emissions by allowing people to work from their own homes to avoid the need to commute in the first place. By the end of next year, 30% of premises outside our cities will have direct access to pure fibre optic broadband cable. That is going to have a significant impact in transforming the local rural economy but also helping to drive down emissions.

The vast majority of villages across Ireland will have access to pure fibre broadband of up to a 1000 Mbps. I am working with the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Michael Ring, to see how we can exploit that in two ways. First, by facilitating hot de- sking in rural communities so people do not have to travel from their own village to local towns or to cities to work. Second, working with the telecommunications companies to see how we can exploit that fibre to connect people up on the last mile through wireless or mobile services.

It is also about using technology differently. By 2024, everybody in this country will have a smart electricity meter. That is going to drive energy efficiency. It will allow for real-time pricing and encourage people to become far more energy efficient in their electricity use. The action plan for jobs that will be published next year intends to focus on enabling the environment for business and innovators to take increasing investment opportunities that are being presented in the low carbon climate resilient transition.

The roll-out of broadband and the use of smart meters across the country provides for new innovative solutions. We now have two Internet of Things networks across this country and we are already seeing companies like VogueTek in County Meath exploiting that to provide adaptation services here in the city of Dublin where they are now using the Internet of Things 732 29 November 2017 to communicate potential gully blockages to Dublin City Council so they can be averted and addressed before heavy rains arrive.

In 2016 we also saw an increase of 4.4% in the use of public transport services. The Min- ister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, will deal with that in more detail and talk about the expansion of the Luas green line, increasing the capacity and the usage of that public transport service in reducing the amount of vehicles coming into the city of Dublin.

However, it is not just about the domestic level. Ireland is very much involved at an international level. We held the International Plant Protection Convention, IPPC, seminar in Dublin earlier this year on agriculture and the land use working group. That report will be completed in 2019. It will be significant from an Irish perspective because agriculture plays such a key part in our overall emissions and in the emissions trajectory that we have to meet. The work that we are doing should be acknowledged. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Creed, will outline to the House the work that is being done on the beef data genomics scheme, one of the most innovative climate measures that has been taken in the agricultural sector at a global level. We have now genotyped 1 million beef-producing animals in this country. There is no database of its type anywhere in the world. It allows us to be at the cutting edge of developing new flexible solutions in that area. During the Congress of the Parties, COP23, negotiations in Bonn two weeks ago Ireland contributed and was very much to the fore in break- throughs in the development of guidance for the agricultural sector but also in the adoption of a gender action plan. It is important that we not just look at the measures that we can take here in Ireland but work with other countries on a global scale to deal with these challenges because we cannot deal with many of them in isolation.

We are doubling the funding that is going to be available next year for the roll out of electric vehicles, not just in terms of continuing the grant support that is there. We are now zero rating benefit-in-kind for electric vehicles for the next three years. We are running a number of initiatives with the public and private sectors to convert from traditional fossil fuel to electric vehicles. We are going to run roadshows around the country to get people to try out an electric vehicle. I had the opportunity recently to test drive the Renault Zoe over ten days. I encourage people, especially at this time of the year, to test drive the vehicles before they purchase a new or replacement vehicle. Next year we are going to extend the grant aid for electricity connection for charging in domestic homes from just new vehicles to second-hand vehicles. That would allow for imports but also provide a floor for the sale of second-hand electric vehicles which is important for people looking to purchase an electric vehicle.

We took the decision during the summer to encourage the segregation of waste and encourage people to produce less waste by abolishing the flat-rate charging regime that is being implemented across the country. Approximately 50% of kerb-side collections are already based on some type of usage system. The more one uses such a service, the more one pays. The other 50% will transition to this system over the next 14 months, which will reduce significantly the amount of waste being generated in the first place and also encourage people to segregate.

We have taken the decision to roll out brown bins to every single community with a population greater than 500. Yesterday, we informed the waste industry that it is our intention to roll out brown bins to every single home that wants one. Again, this encourages people to segregate waste so we can use the organic waste for composting and the generation of biogas. I will be bringing a memorandum to the Government next week on the renewable heat incentive scheme, which will support the development of the biogas industry in the country. We will be able to 733 Seanad Éireann utilise the waste being generated from brown bins while encouraging people not to generate waste in the first instance. As Members know, we had a campaign earlier this year specifically asking people to think about what they were dumping by way of food waste and about how they could reduce the volume. The removal of flat-rate bin charges will encourage people to think far more deeply about the amount of waste they are generating in the first instance.

We have made progress on the forestry side. This will probably be addressed by the Min- ister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine when he comes to the House. The drainage system for forestry very much compounded heavy flooding after very heavy rainfall. The design of the new drainage systems for forestry will address and reduce the amount of flooding.

The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is currently completing the public spending code to integrate climate policy into all future decisions on public expenditure that the Government will take. This will very much form part of the overall capital plan that the Government hopes to announce quite soon. The capital plan will integrate climate policy into the overall plan and measures over the next decade.

The national planning framework is being completed. It is very much about getting people back into main streets across the country and utilising existing infrastructure. In Georgian Lim- erick, for example, there is a population of approximately 1,000 although the wider catchment population of the city of Limerick is approximately 90,000. We are trying to rejuvenate our cities, towns and villages where the infrastructure is already in place, thus reducing the need for people to travel and commute. We have taken a decision this year that all new cars and vans sold in Ireland from 2030 will have zero emissions or be zero-emission capable.

We are examining the impact of wetlands on both mitigation and adaptation. We are working with Bord na Móna to consider how we can reflood many of the cutaway bogs across the country. Work is under way on many of these initiatives. Admittedly, it is a challenge and we have a long way to go. Every single person can make a contribution and the Government must provide the leadership in this regard. It is important that we bring people with us. That is why the dialogue is so fundamental in creating the awareness, engagement and motivation to act and build on the work that has already been started by the Citizens’ Assembly. We must build on the work we have done through the Green Flag programme in schools across the country. Some 98% of schools are now involved. The Green Schools National Climate Change Action and Awareness Programme is being rolled out across the country. We have also launched the climate change ambassadors programme so we will have individuals and communities across the country talking about the real and practical impact of climate change in those communities and how individuals and communities can take steps to improve their quality of life, improve air quality and meet our long-term goals on climate. I look forward to the input of Members.

29/11/2017DD00200Senator Terry Leyden: I welcome the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, to the House and thank him for a very comprehensive statement on climate action and low-carbon development.

Fianna Fáil recognises that climate change is one of the most, if not the most, pressing moral and practical challenges of our generation. We need to look no further than the recent floods in Inishowen, the widespread drought in southern and eastern Africa and the devastating and extreme weather events in the United States and the Caribbean to see that the time to act is now. The devastating Storm Ophelia is yet another example of a type of extreme weather event that is said to become more likely as ocean and land temperatures increase.

734 29 November 2017 While there is ongoing uncertainty over whether climate change will increase the frequency of hurricanes, Ireland is likely to see an increased number of intense storms. As ocean temperatures warm, storms will move farther east, thus extending the areas that tropical storms and hurricanes affect. Storms are also growing in intensity and destructive potential.

While we welcome the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act, we have a number of issues regarding how it was drafted and implemented. In the first instance, it took far too long for the Government to publish its mitigation plan. Although it was eventually published in July of this year, it lacked vision and ambition. It fundamentally failed to grasp the gravity of climate change and respond to it. It is reprehensible that the Government has lagged behind in introducing innovation schemes to achieve our greenhouse gas reduction and climate justice targets. As it stands, Ireland is almost certain to fail to meet its targets for 2020. Recent figures show that our greenhouse gas emissions increased by 3.5% in the past year, which means that we are facing fines of at least €455 million. This is a considerable sum.

Although the latest emissions figures are encouraging for some sectors, they show that much more needs to be done. While progress has been made in some areas, especially in electricity production and agriculture, to meet 2020 emissions targets, almost none has been made in other areas since 2011, notably home heating and transport. When he was elected Taoiseach, Deputy Leo Varadkar claimed that the Government would be taking on new climate change ambitions in the wake of budget 2018. That is not accurate at this stage although I acknowledge the Min- ister is doing his best. He is finding it hard to achieve results, however.

Overall, our transport, energy and home heating sectors account for almost half of our emissions, yet the Government has done almost nothing to move these sectors towards a greener future. The Government has dragged its heels on the renewable energy support scheme and the renewable heat incentive, which has more or less frozen development in the renewable energy sector. Despite paying lip service to the concept of renewable transport, the Government has effectively given up on meeting its targets by 2020.

Fianna Fáil is fully committed to making Ireland a leader in tackling climate change. We have detailed policies in this regard. Fianna Fáil and, I am sure, the Minister have received submissions from Trócaire on climate action and low-carbon development. There is information in the document that is deeply concerning for Trócaire, an international organisation. In 2016, the worst El Niño event compounded the damage being done by climate change to lives and livelihoods in the poorest countries. The UN estimated that 50.2 million people were affected by drought in eastern and southern Africa alone. As a result of continued poor rains in 2017, the food and security situation is such that some 20 million in eastern Africa are currently in need of food aid.

In 2015, Malawi experienced its worst flooding in decades and a third of the country was declared a disaster zone. Some 63,000 ha were submerged and 250,000 people were displaced from their homes. Ireland is not responsible for that and it is regrettable that the United States of America has decided to pull out of the Paris accord. It was a major climate change initiative but if China and the United States of America do not co-operate in this regard and do not reduce emissions, then Africa will be directly affected. We can do all we can but given our size it is extremely difficult. I hope the Minister will respond to Trócaire and hold discussions with it as it is very genuine about the situation and can be helpful to the Minister as he forges policies in this area. Trócaire has produced a document, Stop Climate Chaos, which is very detailed and which I assume the Minister has received. 735 Seanad Éireann Friends of the Earth have also been in touch and its director, Oisín Coghlan, has sent a detailed document relating to the Environmental Protection Agency. Earlier this month the EU independent advisory body on climate change, the European Environment Agency, produced its annual overview of emissions reductions and Ireland is the third highest producer of emissions per person in the European Union, and one of seven EU member states which are set to miss their EU2020 emission reduction targets under the EU effort-sharing decisions. Ireland is the only one of the group whose emissions are predicted to continue to rise, which is a damning indictment. I do not know what the situation regarding Moneypoint is and we want Moneypoint to be there but will biomass replace Colombian coal? It is understood that it could bring about a major reduction in that regard and I know it is being considered. The impact would be major because of the emissions of Colombian coal.

I was talking with my wife, Mary, who is an organic farmer and works with Conor on an organic farm in Castlecoote. She suggested there should be a requirement to support the growing of more trees on the land of some 120,000 agricultural holdings under the GLAS scheme, the rural environmental protection scheme or any other new scheme. This would have a marvellous impact. I am not talking about planting a forest on good-quality agricultural land as we must maintain our agricultural land for cattle and sheep production, but there are areas on every farm, perhaps of one acre or less, where one could plant broadleaf trees. If there were ten for every holding there could be 1.2 million and this would reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

I know the Minister is doing his utmost in the areas of electric cars and he said he has experienced driving them. However, if he is driving to Leinster House would he get here without having to charge it somewhere along the way? There are now more places where one can charge a car and in Roscommon town there are certainly more. I understand the Minister’s difficulties and he has a major portfolio in this area, on top of the other portfolios he has. His heart is in this task and, being a former Minister, I know that it is not easy to achieve these things. Many agencies work under the Minister and he has to motivate them as he cannot do all the work himself. He also has to guide them and I think he is doing that very well.

29/11/2017EE00300Senator Tim Lombard: I welcome the Minister to the House for this very important item. It is the item of a generation and, while we looked at it a few years ago, we are now tasked with moving this agenda forward as it is one of the key issues for us. Unless this generation deals with climate change the next generations will, unfortunately, suffer. It is a major task for this Minister, this Government and for the nation itself. Unfortunately, we have a major challenge in managing an economy that is growing while keeping carbon emissions at a certain level. We have had changes in the agricultural sector and in manufacturing as well as an increase in population density, which have had a knock-on effect on us.

A report of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine a few weeks ago on the grain industry shows the change there has been in the sector. There were 2,500 hectares in tillage up to three years ago but it could be as low as 1,500 this year and there is a huge impact on carbon emissions from the transition from tillage to beef and, especially, to dairy. These are challenges that need to be taken on board by the Government as a whole and I have spoken to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine about them. We have to be proactive and find solutions. The Minister rightly mentioned genomics in the beef industry, which is a very important scheme that shows the potential of putting science into the industry. We have to promote science and the interaction among all agencies.

Electric cars will be one of the big things in the next few years and we have to work on the 736 29 November 2017 move away from diesel. It has to be done through monetary proposals and by encouraging people and educating them as to the benefits of electric cars. We have to change our view of what is an appropriate method of transportation.

A bugbear of mine is how we run our economy. We are running an e-economy and I noted this evening that the Minister had no speech to be handed out to Members of the House. We need to change how Government does these things and we have to ask if we need a written speech for every single person. Does this House require it? We all have iPads so does the Gov- ernment now need to go paperless? It would be a very positive step and would show the ambition we need to have. It is a small thing but it would show the next generation what we need to do. We learn not so much from our elders but from the generation below us. My daughters are aged six and seven and can use an iPad a lot better than I can. They move in that circle and do not understand why I need a written speech or why I write things down. We need to look at the younger generation in this regard.

I propose that we move on electric cars but also that the Government should go paperless as soon as it possibly can. The Houses of the Oireachtas should also go paperless and we should move away from looking for the Minister’s speech at the start of a debate as this is not the signal the Oireachtas should be giving. This is a key issue for society and one we have to grapple with or history will not show us in a good light.

29/11/2017EE00400Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus gabhaim buíochas leis as a bheith linn inniu do na ráitis thar a bheith tábhachtach agus suntasach seo ar chúrsaí timpeal- lachta agus aeráide. Having spent some time in here this afternoon, the Minister and his officials will appreciate we are demanding climate action, in the first instance, on the climate in this Chamber. We could do with some action on the climate in the Seanad Chamber because we are all feeling it. Returning to the much more serious matters at hand, the Minister correctly made an understandable reference to the renewable heat incentive. Given the experience not too far up the road, it is worth learning the lessons from that initiative, as well as the potential pitfalls and exploitation that may come about in that scheme. Accordingly, the Minister has plenty of time to plan in advance and, I hope, take from the lessons learned in the North.

We all know the targets we must reach for our climate change obligations for 2020, particularly with respect to the emissions reduction of 20% and the 16% rate for renewables. We know they will not be reached. It is estimated by the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, that emissions will only be 4% to 6% below 2005 levels. The figures from the EPA, released on Monday this week, demonstrate that greenhouse gas emissions increased by 3.5% last year. This is the second year in a row that Irish greenhouse gas emissions have increased and we will be one of only a few states to miss the targets. The climate change performance index, published two weeks ago by leading non-governmental organisations, NGOs, dealing with the matter has placed us last in Europe in terms of climate action measures. In this regard, unfortunately, we are the laggards of Europe. The consequence of not meeting our 2020 obligations will of course be substantial fines of hundreds of millions of euro. These could be moneys better spent on hospitals, housing and education. Instead they are moneys leaving the State, which will be a damming indictment on the inaction of successive Governments.

Sinn Féin has stated many times in the past we are approaching a carbon cliff in terms of emissions. We need direct specific measures. Sinn Féin previously demanded binding sectoral targets to reduce emissions but this State has concentrated almost exclusively on onshore wind for renewable energy. Sinn Féin is calling for the urgent diversification of our renewable re- 737 Seanad Éireann sources. The State needs to get real on climate change and I appreciate that the Minister under- stands this. We need specific actions and not vague plans. As Senator Lombard and others have correctly argued, given the gravity of this issue, we need that action now. We must diversify our renewable energy. A diversification of renewable energy sources is the only realistic way we can combat climate change. Biogas, biomass, offshore wind, solar and micro-generation, which have been virtually completely neglected, must all be developed. All of these energy sources would feed into an all-island electricity grid. Renewable energy sources such as biomass and biogas both help our environment and maintain the island’s security of supply and they create jobs across rural Ireland. We are years, if not decades, behind on these.

We are also behind in terms of transport renewable targets. There is a minimal amount of electric vehicles on the road and there is now confusion about public charging points. This is a mess and it seems there is no plan to get out of it. The regulator issued a paper on public charging in October stating, “there will be no further funding of the assets through network charges”. The regulator now “expects ESBN to arrange the sale of the assets”. Who is going to buy them and finance, build and maintain them in future? If we do not have public charging the shameful number of electric vehicles on the road will not increase. This public charging infrastructure is key if there is to be any possible growth in electric vehicles. Again, this needs to be integrated on an all-island basis, being supplied through an all-island grid and ensuring integrating of transport.

A key element to addressing climate change, protecting and using our environment sustain- ably and to maintaining security of supply, is through the single electricity market and an all- island based approach to our energy needs. The single electricity market has now been in place for a decade, working on a 32-county basis, and is a perfect example of how working together on an all-island basis benefits the economy and the people. We have created, with industry meetings in Belfast and Dublin and input into market design and changes from both sides of the Border, an integrated model of infrastructure that proves the immense potential this island has when working together. Stopping power infrastructure at the Border will not benefit the ordinary energy customer across the island and makes it more difficult for both the Six Counties and the Twenty-six Counties to develop diverse forms of renewable energy.

Our future energy grid will be made of a wider variety of energy types. Variable sources of energy such onshore and offshore wind will form a large part but these must be backed up with biomass and biogas options. To keep the lights on, these need to feed into an all-island grid to best maintain supply. This island can be a world leader when it comes to offshore energy. Wave and tidal power resources have immense potential and again are most feasible on an all-island basis. These natural renewable energy sources we have do not stop at the Border and neither should the infrastructure to harness them.

This island, North or South, produces no oil of its own and a minimal amount of gas with a small lifespan. To combat climate change we need to develop our indigenous renewable energy sources. These are available across the island and it would be nonsensical that we would have two separate energy grids on such a small island. That it is why in a post-Brexit position, the single electricity market must be maintained if we are truly going to combat climate change.

29/11/2017FF00200Senator Grace O’Sullivan: I very much support the Minister’s initiative with regard to dialogue, building awareness, engagement and motivation among the people of Ireland with regard to climate change. As has been stated here today, it is the issue of our time. A number of people have mentioned that it is a great challenge. The Minister indicated we are a small na- 738 29 November 2017 tion but we can really take leadership in the area and punch above our weight. We must make the decisions for this to happen but I do not see it coming about at present. The Minister spoke about the numbers of targets but sometimes less is more. If we could get the results of some concrete targets, it would be better than having aspirations.

Very recently, the highest wave ever recorded off the coast of Ireland was measured off my home county of Waterford at Tramore. It was this year during Storm Ophelia and reached a height of 17.81 m or 58.4 ft, almost the height of a six-storey building. It was definitely far too high for anybody to surf on and had the potential to do much damage. If this is the sign of what is to come, we must step up to the mark. As we saw recently in Mountmellick in County Laois, rivers that have not flooded in living memory have broken their banks, with families left homeless, livestock wiped out and farmland ruined. At one point 25,000 people were without electricity. Whole streets and roads were drowned in water, thereby damaging the small local businesses so important to community life.

Met Éireann’s head of research told the Citizens’ Assembly these extreme rain events will increase by 30% by mid-century but our carbon emissions in Ireland are still increasing. These extreme weather events affect the poorest in Ireland. They also pale in comparison with the extreme weather events Ireland’s high carbon emissions wreak on other countries. For example, I refer to the disappearance of islands in the Pacific and Indian Ocean atolls, refugees fleeing drought and war in Syria and wildfires across Australia. Climate change is intrinsically linked with the question of who caused the damage and who pays for it. All of us, and not just those of us in Ireland, have a responsibility but we must play our part.

Climate justice operates on the basis of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change principle of “common but differentiated responsibilities”, which operates within countries as well as between them. According to Dr. Mary Robinson, it is “a human-centred approach to climate change, safeguarding the rights of the most vulnerable and sharing the burdens and benefits of climate change and its [resolution] equitably and fairly”. There is no mention of climate justice in the 2012 or 2017 national mitigation plans or the draft national adaptation framework. This is in conflict with section 3(2)(c) of the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015, which places a legal obligation on the Minister to have regard to “climate justice” in developing a national mitigation plan and national adaptation framework. Significant submissions were made on this topic from Trócaire, Faith in Action, Christian Aid and others. I ask the Minister to outline the regard which his Department gave to these submissions when drafting the national mitigation plan and national adaptation framework.

In relation to climate justice, I welcome the national mitigation plan’s new focus on ensuring a just transition after the Green Party submitted a motion on the issue of Bord na Móna workers on the 27 May 2017. We look forward to the publication of a report on the spatial or geographi- cal economic and employment implications of the transition and welcome the appointment of Adrian Kane from the ICTU energy and natural resources committee to the national diaIogue on climate action. However, as welcome as these initiatives are, there are no hard actions for a just transition specified in the national mitigation plan, or draft national adaptation framework. Indeed the draft national adaptation framework acknowledges submissions made on just transition but specifies no adaptation measures to put this into effect.

The Climate Advisory Committee acknowledges that a massive economic transformation is needed to tackle climate change. Aimless, revisable plans without any specifications of targets or hard action are unfair on workers in carbon-heavy industries. It leaves them in limbo, 739 Seanad Éireann stressed about an uncertain future. Over 450,000 jobs have been lost in the oil and gas industry worldwide since February 2014, 170,000 in the North Sea alone. In May, Bord na Móna announced that 70 staff would lose their jobs due to the closure of a briquette plant in Littleton, County Tipperary. On 27 May 2017, the Green Party motion on just transition called on the Department to “take a decisive lead to create employment in electricity generation, energy stor- age, community energy, transport infrastructure, energy efficiency and sustainable heating for homes and businesses, and rehabilitation of our bogs and national habitats”. In 2019, the €l20 million subsidy for peat will end. Will the Minister tell us what exact, specific plans he has to implement a just transition for Bord na Móna workers who for generations have worked hard to provide the Irish State with energy sovereignty?

These ordinary workers, such as those losing jobs in Littleton, are in no way to blame for inaction by Bord na Móna and Government in moving towards a cleaner energy system. Bord na Móna, a company already making €85 million in profits over the past three years, currently receives a subsidy of €120 million for burning peat. That €120 million could ensure the safety, security, pensions and retraining for every peat worker and reliant industry in the midlands. It could also rehabilitate our bogs and make them powerful resources for carbon mitigation, helping us to avoid imminent fines of €600 million a year from 2020.

In the USA, solar energy alone employs more people than oil, coal and gas combined and by 2050, a global economy based on renewabIes and energy efficiency would create 24 million more permanent, full-time jobs, according to research from Stanford University. The econo- mist David Connolly has also outlined how climate action, if taken now, could create 100,000 new jobs in the energy sector alone. The new EU renewable energy directive gives us an opportunity to address the feeling communities have of being locked out of progress, having things happen to them rather than benefit themselves.

I will conclude on a matter that annoys me, which I have raised previously, namely offshore oil and gas. Will the Minister address his plans to ban offshore oil and gas drilling off the Irish coast, considering the damage it does to marine life, our fishing industry, and its contribution to climate change? Will the Minister assure me that no new licences will be given for oil and gas exploration off the Irish coast? It is one seriously good measure that could be taken to ensure that we do not continue to damage our climate and the clean air and health of the people of Ireland.

29/11/2017GG00200Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): Senator James Reilly has five minutes.

29/11/2017GG00300Senator James Reilly: I thank the Acting Chairman, and ask him to let me know when I have a minute remaining although I do not intend to delay the Minister.

I welcome the Minister to the House. I was not here to hear his speech but I have read it. There are many good things in it and he touches on many areas of serious concern to many people in Ireland. As someone who moved to the countryside some 15 years ago to the brave new world of broadband which would enable us to transact our business, I soon found out that was very much not the case. We have made some progress but there is an awfully long way to go. Even in places in north county Dublin, in Fingal, where I live, there are times when the broadband speed can make one pull what is left of one’s hair out. There is much work to be done on that and I know the Minister is committed to addressing the issue.

740 29 November 2017 I am struck by how, in our economic history, we have bemoaned our lack of natural resources in contrast to many industrialised nations. Now things have come full circle. We have the best economic resources available to us in our environment, between our seas, wind and the amount of solar energy available to us. The Minister has touched on many of these, and ocean energy is an exciting prospect for further investment that is largely left to the large multinationals and universities, whereas solar energy is something we can all avail of. There is also wind energy although with that there are added costs, with wind turbines having many moving parts and requiring maintenance whereas photovoltaics are a far simpler way to achieve energy here. There are many farmers who have land that is marginal, that may be good enough for grazing sheep but is certainly not good enough for tillage, who would very much like to get involved in this area. There is a significant problem with this because there are no Government guidelines for local authorities regarding applications for solar farms. I know of one farm in Fingal, in north county Dublin, that was refused by the local authority on the grounds that there were no national guidelines. I realise that the Minister here is not the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, but he sits at Cabinet and his remit is energy and I hope he will bring to bear his influence on this matter. I have raised it previously and will do so again when the relevant Minister comes before us on our energy requirements.

We talk about many of these things over which we do not have control, although the Gov- ernment does. This is an area where there is huge potential and which people are keen to avail of but they are obstructed by a lack of guidelines and official action. That must be addressed. From an environmental perspective, this is a wonderful opportunity. People can still raise sheep underneath these solar panels and it is the cleanest of clean energy. It is a matter for the Minister, Deputy Ross, who will be before the House later. If one looks at the Oireachtas Li- brary and Research Service’s synopsis on the subject, when it lists the options to help Ireland reach its national EU greenhouse gas emission target, its first point is to increase the levels of renewable energy. This provides a mechanism. Even if people did not want to put them on their land, farmers have considerable roof space across hay barns and other sheds which could be exploited and we should encourage them to do so. We certainly do not want a situation such as that which exists in other jurisdictions where it has become all but impossible for people to do this, because of regulations. I will not name them but they are EU member states. I want to impress on the Minister the need for regulations in the area. There are many people who would be keen to become involved in solar farms or solar energy who, far from being encouraged, are meeting obstruction.

I also believe that we can do more to advance the concept of electric cars and give people confidence in them. The big issue that is holding people back from buying the cars is probably the range that some of them have, although that has been overcome, and the lack of power points around our cities. We need to address that issue.

I commend the Minister on his commitment to the post office service. I welcome the €30 million that has been approved by Government for that service. We need to look at other ways, besides those mentioned by the Minister, of sustaining our local post offices. The service has to be financially viable.

29/11/2017HH00200Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): The Senator is out of time.

29/11/2017HH00300Senator James Reilly: I thought I had a minute left. I would like to make a plea that post offices be given the right to provide motor taxation services to local people. Many of our older citizens like to deal face to face with people, and there is potential for that work to be carried 741 Seanad Éireann out by the post offices. There is also a lot of potential in terms of managing the savings of our older people. Nobody in this House wants to see a situation arise where older people feel they have to keep large sums of cash in their house because they cannot get to a bank and they do not understand ATMs and computers. As the pillar banks recede from the more remote parts of Ireland, and even from some of the not so remote parts, the nearest branches are often 20 or 30 miles away and have less and less customer interface action.

29/11/2017HH00400Senator Ivana Bacik: I welcome the Minister to the House. I also welcome the representatives from Stop Climate Chaos and Trócaire in the Public Gallery and thank them for their briefing materials, which have been very helpful.

I am very glad of the opportunity to have this debate. Of course, it is a requirement under the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015. Former Senator Sean Barrett was responsible for ensuring that we would have the opportunity to debate these annual statements, not just in the Dáil but also in the Seanad. I very much welcome the opportunity to do this today. However, it must be said that Ireland is currently performing very badly, and that this is not a happy second annual statement to be making to us. I have the utmost respect for the Minister, and I ask that he bring the message back to his Cabinet colleagues that the key problem, as I see it, is a lack of joined-up thinking and a lack of an overall Government vision for tackling climate change and for ensuring that Ireland will in fact meet its targets.

Other colleagues have referred to the very disappointing figures released by the Environ- mental Protection Agency, EPA, showing serious increases in Ireland’s carbon emissions. There were marked increases in 2016 of 3.5%. That was broken down by the EPA to show that agriculture emissions increased by 2.7%, transport emissions by 3.7% and energy industry emissions by 6.1%. It was pointed out that there were significant increases observed across all of the main sectors and an overall trend of increasing emissions. National emissions have now increased by 7% in just two years, indicating, according to the EPA, that we have not managed to decouple emissions from economic growth. The Minister referred to economic growth as a driver here, but clearly we need to ensure that economic growth does not come at the expense of failing to meet targets. I know that the Minister is committed to that. It seems that we are getting a series of disjointed actions by individual Ministers, whereas the whole intention or purpose behind these statements was to ensure that there was a coherent overall strategy at Government level to manage how we meet our targets on climate change.

We have been criticised by our own national body, the EPA, but also at international level by the European Environment Agency, which points out that Ireland is the third highest producer of emissions per person in the EU and one of just seven member states which are set to miss the EU 2020 emission reduction targets. Other bodies at international level, such as the Climate Change Performance Index, have ranked Ireland as the worst performing country in Europe for action on climate change. As others have pointed out, we also face significant fines if we fail to meet targets.

What can we do about this? There is some room for optimism. Clearly, we have significant opportunities to bring about transformational change. I believe that the political and public will is there for that, as was evidenced in the really excellent Citizens’ Assembly report, which the Minister himself referred to. Looking at the recommendations from that report, there are some really positive and welcome recommendations. Some 98% of the members of the Citizens’ As- sembly recommended that climate change should be at the centre of policymaking in Ireland. This brings us back to the idea of having a joined-up national approach to tackling climate 742 29 November 2017 change. A total of 100% of members recommended that the State should take a leadership role in addressing climate change. Indeed, 80%, a sizeable majority, said that they would be willing to pay higher taxes on carbon-intensive activities, which is a sign that there is public will to put our money where our mouths are.

The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, will be coming into the House after the Minister present, Deputy Naughten, but as the Minister has mentioned it already, I will say that there were very strong recommendations on improving cycling infrastructure. As a very committed daily cyclist I would urge action on that. There was also a strong recommendation to support the transition to electric vehicles. Senator Reilly, among others, has spoken about that. I have met the Electricity Association of Ireland, the ESB and other stakeholders on this, and there is a real concern that we are not doing enough to encourage consumers to make the transition to electric vehicles. Senator Reilly referred to some of the challenges involved in that in terms of charging and range.

The Labour Party set out in its policy document, Growing the Green Economy, and in its submission to the Citizens’ Assembly a series of actions that could be taken. It proposed the setting up of a green infrastructure fund, worth €1 billion, to retrofit 225,000 homes over the next five years. I thought that Senator Reilly made some very strong points on retrofitting and on the importance of encouraging householders to take action on this. We need to ensure that there are strong incentives in place for the fitting of solar panels and so on. That seems to be an eminently sensible approach, and the Labour Party has recommended it also. It also called for a new forum for community energy engagement and to promote and diversify Ireland’s renewable energy portfolio.

While in Government, the Labour Party was a strong driver behind the State’s first climate change legislation, the 2015 Act, which is the reason we are all here. When I was first elected to the Seanad in 2007, I brought forward a Private Member’s Bill, with Friends of the Earth, which was the first climate change Bill which sought to set binding targets. The Labour Party, when in Government, produced a new national strategy to combat energy poverty and began a €20 million pilot programme to improve domestic energy efficiency.

The Government needs to take a strong leadership role on climate action. We have advantages because many State-owned companies, such as the ESB, Bord na Móna and Coillte, are operating in the energy sector and can be dynamic agents of change. We have pointed out that this is an area where State intervention and activism are crucial. The market alone, unaided, cannot deliver the transformation to the low-carbon, and ultimately zero-carbon, economy we need to achieve. There is immense public support for that. Any survey we see shows immense public support for recycling initiatives and for ideas such as retrofitting.

I want to refer to the issue of climate justice, which Senator Grace O’Sullivan referred to. That is also an important part of any debate on this. This is not just a national issue. Trócaire has produced very useful briefings on this issue. It is the poorest and least developed countries, those which have done the least to cause the enormous amount of climate change we have seen, which are being hit the hardest. Mary Robinson, speaking recently at the COP23 UN climate change conference in Bonn, spoke about the need to engage stakeholders to ensure the right to participation and decision-making by those from the least developed countries is respected and fulfilled as we make the transition to zero carbon.

I will end on an optimistic note. Mary Robinson did strike a very optimistic note in reflect- 743 Seanad Éireann ing on that recent conference. She spoke about how she has become more optimistic about the global response to climate change. She urged the implementation of a Marshall Plan-type intervention, which I thought was a very attractive idea, to ensure that everyone has access to renewable energy. This is also a critical way of tackling global poverty. To return to the point made by the EPA, we should never consider that economic progress inevitably means increased emissions. Unfortunately, that has been our recent experience and it is why we are performing particularly badly currently. We need to decouple emissions from economic growth, see the enormous economic benefit in growing sustainable energy and move increasingly towards a zero-carbon economy.

29/11/2017HH00500Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): There are three speakers left and there are only ten minutes left. Each speaker has five minutes each, but it would be appreciated if each could curtail his or her time.

29/11/2017HH00600Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: I thank the Minister. I want to speak mainly about climate change.

Recently our entire country shut down because of a hurricane called Ophelia. Why did it shut down? It was because we were not clear about how it would arrive. Thank God for Joanna Donnelly, meteorologist in RTÉ, who became over 20 hours the face of Storm 4 o’clock Ophelia. She issued warnings to people around the country and urged them to batten down the hatches and take it seriously. We lost three lives, however. We did not understand the importance of this weather event until it had passed. We are surely fools if we ignore signs such as this one. Scientists have stated that such storms, flooding, hazardous weather and extreme weather events, which were called once-in-a-lifetime events, are becoming more frequent. Why? It is because of climate change.

In the global age of Trump and climate change sceptics, we in Ireland are doing a terrific job of ignoring climate change. We see it as something only the rich fossil fuel companies have to worry about, but the pensioner in County Donegal who is still feeling the after-effects of the tail-end of Hurricane Gert and has to stock up at the front door with sandbags before she can sleep is worried about climate change, and we should join her.

In America, there is a new campaign called “We Are Still In”. More than 2,500 leaders from America’s city halls, state houses, boardrooms and college campuses have signed “We are still in” declarations since its initial release on 5 June 2017. This network represents more than 127 million people from 50 states, red and blue, and is demonstrating America’s commitment to tackling climate change, ensuring a clean energy future and upholding the Paris Agreement. We also need to be in.

I firmly believe that, as climate is changing, it is almost hard to tell the winters from the summer. We are nearly getting to a stage where there is confusion. One does not know any more. We used to have a winter wardrobe and a summer wardrobe but now it has got to a stage where we cannot tell the difference anymore. We are on this planet. It is our only home. We owe the future to our children and we cannot give them a half-used one. I firmly believe that information is crucial. We need an awareness campaign. There is definitely massive climate change and I know the Minister and those in his Department will work on it. We need to make people aware of this.

Before I finish, I will refer to Senator O’Reilly’s contribution on post offices in rural areas.

744 29 November 2017 The funding is welcome but we need to ensure that extra services are provided by our post offices. Post offices, particularly those in rural areas, are the life and soul of this country. I hope the Minister will consider my concerns.

29/11/2017JJ00200Senator Michelle Mulherin: I welcome this annual statement. When it comes to climate change, the fallout and the cost if we do not act, we can never have enough conversations to get to the reality of the consequences and the measures we need to take. We have to be bold in that regard. However, we also have to come from a point that is reality so that we can bring people with us. I have heard of them on television but I have never met anyone who does not think something should be done. Most of our citizens think something should be done but the issue is who does what. However, that is about decisions and where we, as policy makers, have to try to strike the right balance.

There are two areas I want to focus on in the short time available to me. First, there will obviously be a cost. We are talking about changing our lifestyles and technology. If the internal combustion engine was never invented and we did not rely on it for so many score years, we would already be on the road to diversification. Transport is a major issue. We need to make progress on electricity production and heat. However, it must be acknowledged that progress is being made. The consultation period for the renewable electricity support scheme has con- cluded and now we are considering what forms of renewables will be supported and given a tariff so that they can be brought to bear on the equation and make up part of the renewable portfolio for generation of electricity.

I know the Minister is examining all options but I think the time has come to consider offshore wind. I agree with colleagues who have spoken about solar panels and biomass. We can do a lot more in the area of microgeneration, whether it is wind, solar or otherwise. We need to encourage and empower more citizens to make decisions on electricity generation. It could make wind turbines a lot more palatable for people if they thought they could have one themselves and there were benefits in it for them. There is a perception now that wind farms are big industry but there is a reason Government is supporting wind farms and so on.

Recently I attended a conference by Wind Aware Ireland in Buswell’s Hotel which was covered by the press. I believe this group is genuine in what it is saying. However, I would like the Minister to set out the situation in black and white here today because everything about wind was condemned. The group was saying that we are spending a lot of money on tariffs which are going to big companies but are not leading to satisfactory carbon emissions. Percentages were given comparing the amount we have invested in wind with other forms of electricity production. In fairness to the logic, there has to be backup and I understand there needs to be a mix. I think people misunderstand the arguments for wind. No one says that wind blows all the time. I have seen so many journalists write, “Eureka! They are fooling us. Wind is some big solution.” We have to have a suite of solutions because one size does not fit all. I would like the Minister to speak to these people. I believe they are genuine. They are a voluntary group that has come together. I have my views and I have been to so many talks on these things. I would like to speak to the fears of people about the wisdom of the way we are spending taxpayers’ money to support wind, the desirability of doing so and plans for the future.

The other issue is that of agriculture. I admire the concept of the Citizens’ Assembly. I was involved in the Constitutional Convention and understand the power of getting contributions from citizens. However, agriculture and agrifood got a very hard doing in the recommendations of the Citizens’ Assembly. It did not seem to take any cognisance of the fact that agriculture 745 Seanad Éireann emissions have gone down 6% since 1990 although production has gone up 40%. Agriculture is key to our economy. It is in all our plans, including Food Wise 2025. Many people do not know what it takes to get on an agricultural scheme, whether it is considering ecosystems or environmental steps that have to be taken. A farmer has to consider environmental impacts and take measures and concrete steps before getting a red cent from Government or the European Union. They are a misunderstood cohort. Our agriculture in terms of beef production and dairy-----

29/11/2017JJ00300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The time has expired.

29/11/2017JJ00400Senator Michelle Mulherin: I will conclude.

29/11/2017JJ00500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: You are running into injury time now.

29/11/2017JJ00600Senator Michelle Mulherin: I am just concluding. We are to the fore of the top countries in Europe in terms of having the most carbon-efficient way of producing beef and dairy, but that is not praised. I have one question for the Minister. Is he satisfied that none of the experts in the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine who present to us on the agriculture committee and tell us the challenges and the good news were invited to the Citizens’ Assembly? The net point in agriculture is that we have to slap farmers with the carbon tax. Farm families for the most part cannot take such a simplified attitude or measure.

29/11/2017JJ00700An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator has gone a minute over time. I call Senator Frances Black.

29/11/2017JJ00800Senator Frances Black: I thank the Minister for his presentation today. Like my colleagues, I support the initiative for dialogue on climate change. I know we are here today to hear him report to the Oireachtas on the mitigation policy measures adopted to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases so that we can transition to a low carbon, climate resilient, environmentally sustainable economy as well as compare our progress to our EU and international targets. I have huge respect for the Minister but I am concerned that today’s report fails to give us a reliable assessment on how we are doing. It stands over a vague national mitigation plan issued this summer and fails to compare our performance reliably against our own targets and those of other countries. However, we have reliable resources that show just how badly we are doing. The Minister will be aware of the international assessment published earlier this month. Unfor- tunately, it shows that Ireland has the worst climate performance record in the EU. The climate change performance index, CCPI, ranks Ireland 46th of 57 countries. My colleague, Senator Bacik, mentioned the latest data from the EPA. According to it, our emissions increased by a shocking 3.5% last year, a steep rise that was matched in 2015 and is likely to be matched again in 2017. We are going in the wrong direction. Our agreed effort-sharing target for 2020 was to reduce emissions by 20% from 2005 levels. The latest projection has us reducing by only 5%. The current increases suggest that the figure will be even worse.

I am concerned that there is complacency in what the Government is doing. I am also concerned that the Minister might be trying to get as many loopholes into our 2030 targets as possible. Doing so could destroy our international credibility. Instead of taking action to reduce emissions, I am worried that the Government is seeking to take advantage of this by claiming that our failure to meet the 2020 targets is evidence of the targets being too strong.

It is not that the target for our transport sector is too strong, but that we have adopted transport policies that are forcing people to drive. This is the concern. We continue to invest heav- 746 29 November 2017 ily in roads and starve public transport of resources. The Citizens’ Assembly called for a 2:1 investment ratio in public transport but all signs show that, while the Government is continuing to encourage public transport, walking and cycling, it is making investments that will make us even more car dependent. As a result, our transport emissions are increasing at the same rate that they were during the bubble.

It is not that the target for our agriculture sector is too strong, but that the Government is implementing a processor-led agriculture policy based on expansion of the most carbon intensive sectors without regard for the environmental impact or economic risks that come with rapid intensification. As a result, our agricultural emissions are increasing again.

We have slowed down the expansion of our renewable energy infrastructural and the retrofitting of our housing stock to make it warmer, healthier and easier to heat. We tax every electricity consumer in order to pay a subsidy so that Bord na Móna and the ESB can continue destroying our bogs, thereby losing biodiversity, worsening flooding, polluting our rivers and increasing our energy sector’s emissions further. Worse still, we are rapidly expanding horti- cultural peat mining, destroying more of our bogs in order to export peat to Britain and other countries, including those where peat mining is not possible because their bogs are protected.

All of this means more greenhouse gas emissions. The EPA reports that our emissions and carbon footprint per capita are increasing.

29/11/2017KK00200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Next is Senator Humphreys, who might not get all of his five minutes.

29/11/2017KK00300Senator Kevin Humphreys: I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach, but I do not intend to use them all.

29/11/2017KK00400An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator will not have to.

29/11/2017KK00500Senator Kevin Humphreys: I will move quickly with this Minister. The song “Simply the Best” ran through my mind throughout the contributions because we are actually simply the worst in terms of the environment. Our emissions have gone out of control.

I will discuss a couple of points. I support the idea of developing solar energy, onshore and offshore wind, biomass and microgeneration. All of these are necessary, but we also need to consider what we are doing with Moneypoint. That station must close. We must build the infrastructure to allow for that closure and put in place a plan to protect and retrain its workers in order to ensure that they have a future in the workplace. Since 1998, this country has been told that Moneypoint should close. That is long overdue. The station is one of the biggest polluters in the country and we will not hit our targets as long as it remains open.

Senator Black touched on the issue of peat-burning stations. When I raised it with the Min- ister previously, he told me that we could not create a rust belt in the middle of Ireland. No, we cannot, but we do have to plan quickly for the closure of the peat-burning stations. We also must ensure that there is work for the stations’ current employees.

We cannot keep making excuses for why our two largest polluters are operating without a clear plan for closure. That lies at the Minister’s door. He has been in office for two years. We need to see action. It has been too long and there has been too much talking. Saying this is not popular. I am sure that I will get hundreds of emails when I return to my office because I am

747 Seanad Éireann taking a stand on two areas, but we need leadership. We are getting none from the Minister or any other Minister. Instead, there has been a growth in emissions. It is unacceptable.

29/11/2017KK00600An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Senator will be allowed to continue later. I must now call on the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to make his statement on the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015.

29/11/2017KK00700Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Shane Ross): It is a pleasure to attend the House for the second time today, which is twice more than I often attended while a Member of the House. It is good to be here.

29/11/2017KK00800An Leas-Chathaoirleach: The Minister is doing well. He has a great record in this House.

29/11/2017KK00900Deputy Shane Ross: I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. It is clear that Ireland faces a considerable challenge to transition to a low carbon and climate resilient economy by 2050. The transport sector has a critical role to play in achieving this national objective. We must develop approaches that reduce emissions and enable the sector to adapt to the impacts of climate change without impeding social progress or economic recovery. All the while, Ireland’s transport sector must be able to cater for our growing national travel demand in a dynamic and responsive manner.

Our transport sector is one of the fastest-growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, increasing by over 130% between 1990 and 2015. Ireland is not unique in this. Transport in Europe now accounts for nearly 27% of all non-emissions trading system, ETS, emissions. It has been estimated that, without intervention, transport emissions will rise by 11% between 2020 and 2035. Consequently, we must change how we travel and do business and the types of fuel and technology that we employ if we are to contribute successfully towards our decarbonisation target.

The national mitigation plan has firmly established and streamlined the Government’s commitment to work towards our national decarbonisation objective. Transport will play a significant role in the national mitigation effort and has already made positive progress. Some 24 transport mitigation measures are identified in the plan. They are wide-ranging and include: sustained investment in public and sustainable transport to improve the quality and capacity of the transport network, as well as encouraging a shift away from private car use; securing an early transition to zero and low-emission vehicles through the incentivisation of alternative fuels and technologies; and a series of complementary policy and taxation measures requiring a cross-governmental and interdepartmental approach.

In 2016 there were four key measures that reduced transport emissions in Ireland. The first of these was our sustained investment in the public and sustainable transport network, which led to an increase of almost 31 million journeys on subsidised public transport and commercial bus services since 2013. Second, as a result of the implementation of EU vehicle standard regulations limiting tail pipe emissions, new cars entering the fleet are now approximately 25% more energy-efficient than they were in 2007. Furthermore, the redesign of the vehicle registration tax, VRT, and motor tax regimes in 2008, which was based on carbon dioxide emissions rather than engine size, had a very positive effect on changing buyer behaviour and encouraging the take-up of low-emission vehicles. Older and more polluting models now represent just 4% of all vehicle purchases. Finally, the introduction of a biofuel obligation scheme, to incorporate sustainable fuel into our conventional fuel mix, has substantially decreased transport emissions.

748 29 November 2017 In 2015 alone, this biofuel measure reduced carbon dioxide emissions by 356 kilotonnes.

Encouraging the use of public transport is central to our national efforts to combat climate change, air pollution and other negative environmental and social impacts. However, we are still highly dependent on the private car. Some 74% of our journeys are taken by car, equating to over half of our transport emissions. We need to provide a realistic and sustainable alternative to reduce this dominance. With this objective in mind, I remain strongly committed to meeting increasing travel demand through more public transport capacity, and support for cycling and walking. In Dublin alone, over 69% of all journeys into the city centre are now made on foot or by bicycle, representing an increase of over 10% in the last six years. In budget 2018, I secured over €100 million in multi-annual cycling and walking programmes, as well as a 275% increase in capital investment in public transport infrastructure over the next four years, amounting to a spend of over €2.7 billion.

It is also vital that we meet our growing transport demand with green public transport alter- natives. Our national mitigation plan commits us to utilising the newly established green public transport fund to support low-emission vehicles in the bus and taxi sector. In that regard, I was pleased to announce that I have secured additional funding in budget 2018 to assist this objective, starting with support for taxi operators to make the switch to electric vehicles from early 2018. The National Transport Authority, NTA, anticipate purchasing low-emitting buses next year as part of the Bus Connects programme. By 2023, some 500 buses should be converted to low-emission vehicles.

The use of alternative fuels and technologies is key to reducing emissions within the transport sector, and offers one of the most cost-effective and feasible pathways to meeting our carbon mitigation and pollution objectives. This is particularly important outside urban areas, where dependence on private cars is strongest, and where public transport systems and active travel offer less potential for effectively addressing travel needs.

To ready Ireland for the transition away from conventional fuels, and to enable seamless adaptation to this developing and expanding market, I published Ireland’s national policy framework on alternative fuels infrastructure for transport earlier this year. A cornerstone of this is our ambition that by 2030 all new cars and vans sold in Ireland will be zero-emissions capable. Furthermore, to accelerate our transition to alternatively-fuelled vehicles, my Department continues to work closely with that of the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Envi- ronment, Deputy Denis Naughten, as co-chairs of the low-emission vehicle task force. The task force has presented early findings and recommendations to the Government, which resulted in a number of additional electric vehicle, EV, incentives being introduced from 2018. These included toll reductions for EVs, 0% benefit-in-kind, BIK, treatment for battery electric vehicles, and additional funding to maintain and improve our EV recharging network. Further incentives for the early adoption of low-emission vehicle, LEV, technology fuelled by gas and hydrogen will continue to be considered by this task force throughout 2018.

As well as the measures in place to reduce transport emissions in line with our EU and international obligations, we also face the challenge of building climate resilience within the transport sector. Even if greenhouse gas emissions were to completely stop from today, global climate change would continue for many decades as a result of past emissions. The rise in extreme weather events that Ireland has experienced this year, such as the severe flooding in Donegal last August and, more recently, Storm Ophelia, indicate that Ireland’s climate is indeed changing and will continue to change in the years to come. This poses two challenges; the task 749 Seanad Éireann of ensuring continued services and maintaining infrastructure, for roads, rail, aviation, ports and buses under sometimes very difficult weather conditions; and the need to protect new assets by ensuring that today’s design specifications will adequately address tomorrow’s infrastructure needs. I am therefore delighted to announce that today I have published my Department’s first climate change adaptation plan, entitled Developing Resilience to Climate Change in the Irish Transport Sector. The plan outlines climate research and analysis on the likely impacts of climate change, including more frequent storm events, rising sea levels and increased incidence of flooding. The plan also highlights the positive ongoing work in climate change adaptation within the transport sector and other sectors, for example, the development of the strategy for adapting to climate change for national roads and light rail by our colleagues in Transport In- frastructure Ireland, TII.

Of course, this plan is not a complete roadmap towards climate resilience, but rather the first step on Ireland’s journey towards safeguarding the transport sector from the environmental, economic and social impacts of climate change. My Department will continue to support our front-line actors, the transport agencies and local authorities, to identify potential vulnerabili- ties within their operations and to consider how these can be addressed. Given the expected increase in transport demand and the investment we will be making to add capacity, it is of particular importance that the need for adaptation and mitigation is mainstreamed into future policy, not least in the development of the national planning framework, to ensure the long-term sustainability of the transport sector. Of course, my Department will participate fully with the national dialogue on climate change, addressing both mitigation and adaptation challenges.

It is clear that adapting to climate change will be an ongoing process. A statutory national adaptation framework is being developed under the Climate Action and Low Carbon Develop- ment Act 2015, and will be submitted to Government by the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten, for approval before the end of 2017. Following approval of the framework by Government, work in my Department will be focused on the preparation of a statutory adaptation plan for the transport sector, in order to put in place a suite of measures to limit the potential damage of climate change. Equally, the mitigation measures that I have outlined will develop and progress in the years to come, particularly as new technologies come into play. For instance, hydrogen power may yet play a significant role in helping achieve our 2050 objective. The national mitigation plan will be continually updated as research, policy and innovations generate additional cost-effective options.

Through continued close co-operation between my Department and other key Departments, principally the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment, the Depart- ment of Finance and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, the transport sector is developing a strong approach to ensuring greenhouse gas emission mitigation, as well as measures to adapt to the impacts of climate change. With the right approach, I am confident that the transport sector can and will remain a key player in supporting the Irish economy and society in the future.

29/11/2017LL00200Senator Jennifer Murnane O’Connor: Transport is now responsible for about 20% of Ireland’s greenhouse gases. Recent figures show that transport emissions increased by 3.79% in 2016, bringing the total rise over the last four years to 13%. This is particularly shocking given that the technologies needed to decarbonise our transport sector already exist. The Gov- ernment has failed to meet our targets for getting more electric vehicles onto our roads. We have only 2,000 electric vehicles on the road, and sales continue to represent 0.5% of our new sales. There must be investment in our public transport system as it does not give commuters 750 29 November 2017 a choice. Traffic congestion is bringing our cities to a standstill and having a negative impact on people’s mental and physical health. Strong public transport requires long-term thinking and planning. Fianna Fáil supports the establishment of a national infrastructure commission, which will plan over a 25-year period to help build a stronger, greener public transport infrastructure. There is no evidence of this type of planning from the current Government, which is not delivering on key infrastructure projects such as the DART. This department needs to take the lead on a greener transport sector. When Dublin Bus requested funding to trial electric buses in May of last year, it was refused.

Ireland needs to take a lọng-term view on infrastructure projects and that is what the country needs over the next century. This is particularly important in light of the serious challenges of climate change and the need to upgrade infrastructure to cope with growing demand. This requires long-term planning and investment. A new national infrastructure commission tasked with planning ahead over a 25-year period beyond the limited five-year cycle of the current capital plan would secure our long-term requirements. We would set up an independent national infrastructure commission by reforming Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, and drawing from the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the National Transport Authority, the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland and local authorities to set out a new framework for the development of transport in Ireland over the coming years.

The commission will be tasked with overseeing long-term plans for a series of targets including achieving 4% GDP infrastructure investment, decarbonising Ireland, creating a strong transport network that balances regional development, which is crucial, making Ireland an IT nation with telecommunications and a secured, balanced energy mix.

Ireland’s target under the EU renewable energy supply directive is to ensure that 10% of its transport energy comes from renewable sources by 2020. This target allows the inclusion of transport energy supplied from liquid biofuels. Fianna Fáil has proposed a number of simple measures to switch to electric cars, including by making ESB fast-charge charging points free to access for all users, extending grants for electric vehicle, EV, purchases to 2020 and removing motor tax on all electric cars for five years. In general, there is a very low awareness among the public about the benefits of electric cars, especially the fuel economy. We need to undertake an information campaign to inform customers of EV benefits. Lack of awareness is crucial in this regard as people simply are not aware of the benefits of electric vehicles. We have discussed climate change today. We can all see massive climate change. We must put in place good road infrastructure and must make sure the proper amount of funding is going into this, as it all comes down to funding.

29/11/2017MM00200Senator John O’Mahony: I welcome the Minister to the House and thank him for addressing this important issue. Whatever about the figures and not meeting targets, the public at large is very much aware that doing nothing is not an option at this stage. We were all disappointed in recent days to see the headlines reporting a 3.5% increase in Ireland’s greenhouse gas emissions. This is the second year in a row that this has happened. We are one of a small number of European countries where that is the situation. There is a lot to be done to meet our commitments. During the recession, progress was made but unfortunately that was because people were not at work and not on the roads as much. What we must do is to decouple reducing emissions from economic growth. We need economic growth but need to do it in a way that does not drive up our emissions, which seems to be happening since the recovery came about.

The key, as the Minister noted, is public transport. Progress has been made, particularly 751 Seanad Éireann in urban areas. In rural and regional areas, as the Minister is aware, public transport is not as available nor used as much so there is not as much progress that can be made. In 2005, the Luas had 22 million passengers and in 2016 it had 34 million passengers. There are 90,000 journeys daily. Progress in joining up the Luas lines will increase that number. There must be a big saving there and that needs to be continued. Dublin Bus has been in partnership with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland since 2012 when it signed up to become a member of the public sector energy partnership programme using biofuels to reduce emissions. If my recollection is correct, I heard during the bus dispute last year that a number of buses have been adapted but biofuel was not being used in them. I not sure of that but the Minister might clarify that point. As for the motor industry, from meeting the different car companies, as well as the industry’s umbrella body, the Society of the Irish Motor Industry, I am aware there is a great consciousness and drive to reduce average emissions and to get to zero emissions in the future. That needs to be continued. While it has been pointed out that there are only 2,000 electric cars, which is true, that figure must change and I believe the public is at a tipping point in this regard. Even five years ago, people would not contemplate thinking about an electric car. Some incentives have been proposed, including the €5,000 grant, as well as some tax measures in the budget in respect of company cars being used in taxi lanes. That is important but needs to be built on because as the years go on, we will be pushing an open door.

In regard to electric charging points as mentioned by Senator Murnane O’Connor, my impression is that they are still free charging. Is that correct? While it was due to change, it has not yet. In general, I agree that incentives are needed and small things make a difference, such as reduced or free tolling. Listening to people at seminars from Norway and countries where a high percentage of electric cars is being used, they allow them to use the taxi lanes and to use the ferries free within their country. Obviously they have a lot of ferries and we do not have that many. Everything needs to be explored. The big key is technology. It has been mentioned here already today that for those of us who live in rural areas and who undertake long journeys by car, technology is going to be the key to this, whereby one will be able to get a charge and travel for 300 km or 400 km. That is not far away either. In the transport area, apart from public transport, electric cars will be key. We have not met our targets and will not meet the 2020 targets. However, electric cars are the key to meeting our emissions targets in the near future. No matter who is in government, we need to work on this in a cross-party way. Doing nothing or doing little is not an option at this stage The frequency of various natural events has demonstrated to us all the effect of climate change. When nature takes over it is very damaging, no matter how much technology one has. I hope we do not have any more President Trump-type leaders in countries saying that addressing climate change is not important. Everybody realises it is and that we must speed up the implementation of measures to account for climate change. No matter how much we change emissions levels this year, we will only see the effects down the line. Therefore, we need urgent action on this.

29/11/2017NN00200Senator Grace O’Sullivan: The colleague of the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Naughten, was here this afternoon. I had a little eureka moment listening to both Ministers because the word “challenge” has been used the whole time today. Climate change is the greatest opportunity this country will ever have. Another word used today was “decouple”, in the sense of decoupling the economy from the effects of climate change. We do not have to decouple the economy from the effects at all. In fact, if there is leadership and if the right decisions are made in this country to embrace and avail of opportunities for positive job creation and growth based on renewable energy and renewable energy development, including in the area of transport, we 752 29 November 2017 and future generations will be on the right path. Ireland has opportunities. It is a super country for wind and our marine potential is considerable. It is all about jobs.

Transport emissions rose by 3.7% last year and 4.1% the previous year. This leaves me cold. Transport emissions are on their way to overtaking emissions in agriculture, which represents the biggest sector for emissions at present. In 2009, the Government adopted the national transport policy Smarter Travel, which included targets to be met by 2020 such as the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from transport from the 2005 figure; 500,000 more people taking alternative means to commute to work in order that the total share of car commuting would drop from 65% to 45%; an increase to 55% of total commuter journeys to work undertaken by walking, cycling or public transport; and that the total number of kilometres travelled by car would not increase significantly from the 2009 levels. None of these targets has been met.

The Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Act 2015, which is the reason for the reports Members are receiving here today, obliges all public bodies, including the Ministry responsible for transport, to work towards a low-carbon society. The greater Dublin area transport strategy adopted by the Minister of State’s predecessor and covering the area of the current Minister, planned for an increase in emissions in the greater Dublin area up to 2035. Incredibly, rather than increasing funding and improving the public transport system, the National Trans- port Authority has stated that underinvestment in Irish Rail is so bad that most railway lines are threatened with closure. The Minister should not touch the railway between Waterford and Dublin because I use it frequently.

Shockingly, some Fine Gael representatives have seen what is happening as a question of pitting buses against trains. I certainly hope the Government does not believe that is the choice we face. The choice that faces us does not involve different elements of public transport competing against one other but is about prioritising public transport, cycling and walking. It is truly shocking that the railways, which should be key to our future transport, are under threat.

The Minister recently indicated that transport expenditure in the revised capital plan would remain biased in favour of roads rather than public transport, and that spending on walking and cycling infrastructure would be a mere €110 million over four years. It will be impossible to meet our Paris Agreement commitments without immediate reductions in transport emissions. The target of merely holding to the 2005 emissions level is not enough, and we are not even doing that.

Immediate investment in walking, cycling and public transport infrastructure is essential and the following funding commitments are required to comply with smarter travel goals: at least 20% of transport funding must be allocated to walking and cycling infrastructure, as recommended by the United Nations Environment Programme, and at least 50% of transport funding must be allocated to public transport. Has the Minister the authority to bring the transport elements of the capital plan into compliance with climate policy and will he do so? This means that at least 50% of funding must be allocated for public transport and at least 20% for walking and cycling infrastructure.

The aviation sector is responsible for approximately 5% of global warning. Far from con- tracting, as all major emission sources must, it is one of the fastest growing. Aviation is the most carbon-intensive means of travel. The European Union has included aviation in the emissions trading scheme, and the International Civil Aviation Organization is working to create an international framework for controlling emissions. Dublin Airport’s expansion plans are based 753 Seanad Éireann on predictions of demand that ignore climate change. The only potential future in which its proposals for a third runway is justified is one in which no measures are taken to limit aviation emissions. If the countries of the world and the European Union, including Ireland, live up to their commitments, the third runway will be a white elephant. Is the Minister planning to over- see an investment that is in direct conflict with our policies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?

This is an area of grave concern to me. We have so many opportunities. The Cabinet should change its course because I do not believe the actions it is taking are sufficient to meet our climate commitments. There are opportunities but the Government will need to engage with all stakeholders. It will have to do it at speed, look to the opportunities and stop talking about the challenges.

29/11/2017NN00300Senator Kevin Humphreys: The Minister, Deputy Ross, is welcome back to the Seanad. I hope he will visit much more often in future.

I will continue on the subject of aviation emissions by posing a question on investment and expansion in the aviation area. We discussed improved connectivity, involving the connection of Dublin to an increasing number of American, European and Asian cities. Is achieving this on the basis of a hub really servicing the Irish market or is Dublin servicing Manchester, Bristol, Edinburgh and London as an alternative hub airport? Have we done a cost-benefit analysis in regard to emissions and their cost if they are to be attributed to Ireland? I do not believe any real thought has been put into that. We heard the announcement last week on connecting Dublin to Seattle. Where is the demand in this regard? Is this to service Dublin and the Irish economy or is it to service the European economy? Has a cost-benefit analysis being done in respect of charges and fines?

With regard to Dublin Bus, the Minister mentioned that additional buses with EU6 engines have been purchased. These are obviously engines with much lower emissions. The more polluting engines are to be phased out. Paris and London, however, are way ahead of us with electric buses. Paris is substantially on its way to having an electric bus fleet. We have not even started to trial electric buses. In fact, Dublin Bus failed to get funding for those trials. We are so far behind. I acknowledge the Minister is pulled in every direction. Next week, he could be asked in here to allow for a bypass around a town, and he might be asked what motorway needs to be built to connect to a given city. Climate change, however, has to be the number one priority for the Department because there are growing emissions in the transport sector.

The Minister has talked about sustained investment in public transport and improving quality and capacity. There has been very little improvement in quality and capacity on our rail routes. In fact, the travel times to Cork and Portlaoise, with the reduction in speed on the main lines, have been increasing which is only encouraging more people to use their cars. If the Minister is serious about that, he will need to roll out the necessary funding.

The next aspiration referred to by the Minister is to secure an early transition to low emission vehicles. Where is the Minister’s plan for charging points for electric vehicles? If there are not enough charging points, people will not purchase electric cars in large numbers. If the Minister wants to go for a walk some afternoon, he should go down to Mount Street where there are two electric vehicle charging points beside the Pepper Canister. One will often see cars double parked there, waiting to be recharged. Any motorist with a petrol engine vehicle who drives by an electrical charging point and sees cars double parked waiting to be charged will not be encouraged to transition to an electric car. Mount Street is only a short distance away and it 754 29 November 2017 might be good for the Minister’s mind and his general health to go for that walk.

Dublin has seen a considerable increase in the number of people cycling or walking in the city, with approximately 17% of all journeys being done by cyclists or pedestrians. We need pedestrians to be prioritised in our major urban centres. The footpaths across our capital city, in Cork, Galway and Limerick are in a terrible state. Considerable numbers of people have tripped and fallen and the situation is particularly bad for people with mobility problems. In terms of any investment plan, there must be some level of prioritisation for pedestrians. We must invest in improving our footpaths. While it was unfortunate in one sense, in many ways it is good that we did not win the right to host the Rugby World Cup. If one walks on the footpath from Haddington Road to the Aviva stadium one will see cracks and lifts of up to six inches. Anyone with a mobility problem travelling to the Aviva in the dark is quite likely to fall over. Indeed, many pedestrians going about their daily lives, whether going to mass or bringing young children to school, face challenges on the footpaths, such is their poor condition. It is no wonder that a lot of parents prefer to take their children to school by car.

The dublinbikes scheme has been a game-changer and similar schemes have been rolled out in other cities. These bike schemes have encouraged more people to get onto bikes and to cycle in our cities and I ask the Minister to seriously consider a subvention for them. They are an integral part of our public transport system, as is evident from the numbers using dublinbikes. The next phase of the scheme should involve connecting our urban villages. We should be connecting, for example, Sandymount to Ranelagh, Ranelagh to Donnybrook and Donnybrook to Terenure and Rathmines. That would cut out trips into the city centre and reduce the number of car journeys. It would encourage people not to use their cars. This would require quite a small investment but it has the potential to make a huge difference to the number of car journeys made.

The Minister made reference to the redesign of VRT and the motor tax regime in 2008 by the then Fianna Fáil led Government, which encouraged a huge shift to diesel engines. Those diesel engines are causing deaths. Over 70% of cars purchased last year had diesel engines but the scientific evidence shows that diesel particles in the air in our cities leads to serious illnesses including Alzheimer’s disease, heart disease and brain defects in young children. The science is very clear but we still have not tried to deal with that issue. We are now also seeing a lot of diesel engine vehicles being imported from England. In that context, I ask the Minister to examine the impact of diesel engine vehicles in cities and towns. The former Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, former Deputy Mary Harney, will always be remembered for banning smoky coal in Dublin. There was uproar at the time but we have seen the health benefits of that decision. I urge the Minister to be progressive in the context of diesel engines. I am not suggesting an immediate ban but rather a series of steps to reduce the number of diesel engine vehicles in our cities.

Finally, I make a plea to the Minister to invest in public transport. In particular, I urge him to invest in the electrification of our train routes and the Dublin Bus fleet. His priority should not be to build roads but to build a sustainable public transport network. If that is his legacy at the end of his tenure, he will be held in high regard in future years.

29/11/2017OO00200Senator Michelle Mulherin: I welcome the Minister to the House. I am interested in the delivery of public transport to rural areas, particularly train services into the west. The NTA published a report last year suggesting that train services to the west of Ireland could be shut down because of the lack of money at Iarnród Éireann. I do not know if this is just scare tactics 755 Seanad Éireann or is something that is really being contemplated. What is the Minister’s vision for investment in rail for the west? Would it include further investment in the western rail corridor, which has great potential? In terms of services out of places like Ballina and Westport, the biggest impedi- ment to increased passenger numbers is the length of time it takes for the trains to get to Dublin. Sometimes it can be quicker to travel by road, although the roads in the west are another issue of concern.

A lot of our economic policy is demand led. Where there is a critical mass of people, money is invested. I do not think that is going to be a solution in terms of our ambition to improve public transport. We must up-front a lot of investment to get to the desired position, namely a satisfactory rail service which will be attractive to potential passengers. In that way, we will reduce our carbon emissions. I would like to hear about the Minister’s plans in this regard. I would also like to hear his response to the suggestion that all rail services to the west, except those serving Limerick, should be shut down. I believe that is unjustified. I further believe it should not be arising regularly as a suggestion. It is a purely economic view, emanating from Dublin and it has no sympathy with our ambitions to reduce our carbon emissions and to rebuild rural Ireland.

The services of Bus Éireann are also heavily relied upon in rural Ireland. In that context, we need buses and good roads. If one draws a line from Galway to Louth, there are no major interurban routes north of that line. There was no investment, even during the Celtic 5 o’clock tiger period, in major interurban routes in that part of the country. Connectivity is sadly lacking in that regard. The Government is currently drawing up a new ten-year capital investment plan and is working on a new planning framework. These areas have not benefitted from the roads investment that we have seen in other parts of the country. They are being left behind in terms of investment, jobs and growth. They are also losing their population, mainly because they are not attractive but are considered peripheral by potential investors. These areas need to be looked after and I would ask the Minister to prioritise them when it comes to spending money on roads, particularly on national primary and secondary routes, to make up for the lack of investment during the Celtic tiger years.

There are facts and figures to back up what I say, namely, that this is a disadvantaged region. Bus Éireann needs proper roads to travel. We have a bridge on a national primary road, the N26, at Swinford - Cloongullane Bridge, which dates from the previous century. A car and HGV cannot cross it at the same time. An application has been before An Bord Pleanála for a new bridge for some time. An oral hearing has taken place and I hope we get a positive outcome. However, funds will be required. I would like to hear the Minister’s plans in that regard.

I wish to raise the way the motor taxation system operates currently. Senator Humphreys has talked about getting diesel cars off the road. If we succeed in doing that it would be a re- verse-throttle policy on the part of the Government when one considers all the incentives there have been to invest in diesel cars, including cheaper motor tax for people after 2008.

29/11/2017PP00200Senator Kevin Humphreys: It was a mistake.

29/11/2017PP00300Senator Michelle Mulherin: The people carrying the can for that are those with older vehicles from 2008 or prior to that. Many people who have older vehicles probably do not travel very much and sometimes they pay more tax on their vehicles than the car is worth. There is an inherent unfairness in that somebody can buy a top of the range BMW or Mercedes and he or she will pay less tax than somebody who has a runaround car that does not get much use but is 756 29 November 2017 essential. If one lives in a rural area a car is not an optional extra. It is a necessity. People not only have to drive children to school but have to drive to the nearest town to get broadband. I would like to hear the Minister’s views and ask him to respond to some of my questions on the west, rural areas and transport issues.

29/11/2017PP00400Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Shane Ross) (Deputy Shane Ross): I thank all Senators for their contributions, which were interesting and in some cases, challenging, such as Senator Grace O’Sullivan’s, while others were very stimulating indeed and in one or two cases were totally irrelevant. That is fair enough. That is par for the course.

Those speakers who are critical of our vision and the fact that we have not met our targets are correct. There is no point whatsoever in pretending that we are up to speed on the environment or on emissions. It is something which I wish to see accelerated fast. I do not think it is a matter on which we can hold our head very high at the high tables of Europe when we constantly have to admit that we have missed those targets. Some of them were spelled out by Senator Grace O’Sullivan. Quite honestly, at the time they were over-ambitious. They were done at a time of great prosperity and pride and we are resetting them now with a certain realism. I accept that the transport sector is behind and that there is a great deal of scope for improvement in the area for which I have responsibility. There is obviously a great deal of scope in agriculture as well. I accept completely the need to meet those emissions targets and the consequences of missing them continually or relegating the environment, emissions and pollution to economic demands is something we simply cannot continue forever.

Ambition is one thing and achieving it is another. I fully understand the ideological commitment to a much cleaner environment, which I share. The practical measures which can be taken are inevitably very laudable but, inevitably, they are incredibly expensive as well. When we hear about those great schemes to which we all aspire the cost of them is sometimes utterly and totally prohibitive unless one is prepared to say exactly where one is going to raise the €3 billion or €4 billion that one is going to need for the metro, DART underground and other such schemes which would be good for transport and also good for the environment. We have got to accept a gradual but responsible approach which does not leave the economy on a downward spiral. That is the great contradiction which we face. Senator O’Mahony referred to the Trump- esque outlook which is something we do not accept for a moment. It is also very difficult to aspire to any immediate achievement.

I was in Copenhagen the other day and I was very struck by something very different, not by the fact that there were bicycles everywhere, and not by the structures which are much more environmentally friendly and the progressive policies which we have heard about today, but by the fact that people think environmentally there, that people are proud of it. I will not mention names but many of the people I met there were Irish and the interesting thing about them was that they bought into the environmental narrative. They were very keen to convince me quickly of the merits of what was happening there. They had lived there for a certain period. They told me what had happened there and asked me why I did not do this, that and the other. Denmark started on its approach quite a long time ago. It has been an environmentally convinced country and has been practising that approach for 20 or 30 years. What people were trying to say is that such an approach works and they offered a good counter to the argument that it is too expensive. It is something that is long term and we are undoubtedly a long way behind. We have structures, agriculture, a network of roads and all sorts of legacy issues which make it difficult for us but it does not mean that we should not aspire to do that. We have had a bit of a wake-up call because of the very stark fact that we missed our targets so badly and that we hear about it so 757 Seanad Éireann often. We are at the bottom of so many tables in Europe that perhaps we have to adjust to this rather more quickly than we had expected but that is because of our relative neglect in the past.

I will address some of the specific issues raised by Senators. Senator Murnane O’Connor talked about the number of electric vehicles on the road being too low. We agree on that. We are aggressively thinking of incentives. We have set some very tough targets for ourselves because we have done so abysmally in the past. I cannot remember what the figures are but the current number of electric vehicles is approximately 2,000. Senators Grace O’Sullivan and Kevin Humphreys probably know. I think we aspired to have 270,000 by now, something quite extraordinary, yet it is only 2,000 at this stage, which is absolutely lamentable. The incentives, which many speakers addressed, including tolls and ensuring taxis are electric, are being ex- amined. If they look as if they make sense we will have to introduce such measures. I know there are real difficulties with making exceptions for vehicles in bus lanes because it is difficult to know where to draw the line as all sorts of other vehicles are seeking such a derogation, for example, disabled people and many others who perhaps have an equally worthy case. We must ensure that we are on the right lines and have made giant leaps by 2020 and 2025. We accept that and we are looking at that. We are committed to implementing those incentives to which Senators aspire.

Reference was made to a strong regional transport network. That has come up in many contributions. Senator Mulherin also mentioned it. There is a bit of a problem, which is a slight diversion back to the emissions argument, in that there is a concentration of transport in Dublin and the money we constantly spend on big projects is all in Dublin but that is where the traffic problems are. That is mainly why we do it but it is necessary to combine the national planning framework and other aspects of the effort to be environmentally friendly.

Senator O’Mahony addressed the issue of greenhouse gas emissions and he put his finger on the kernel of the problem, which is that recovery and emissions tend to come together. That is the problem that we have. The moment there is economic recovery, the problem of keeping emissions down arises. The Senator mentioned rural transport. There is a problem to be addressed with rural transport, which I am addressing. It has been a matter of great concern in this House and the other House, albeit perhaps under another heading. I have had two significant meetings with rural transport interests, one of which took place last Monday. This is important for the preservation of rural society in order that it is not destroyed or damaged by other legislation. However, those interests must recognise that if we increase rural transport, they must make sure that we do not significantly increase emissions at the same time. They accept that as well. I accept the Senator’s point about free tolling and taxi lanes. Technology is probably the key to the future.

Senator O’Mahony has correctly observed that we are on the cusp of more widespread take- up of electric vehicles, EVs. Costs are falling and I believe there will be and must be a giant step towards electric vehicles. We are setting realistic targets, and I believe that the incentives we provide will ensure that in the mid-2020s we make an enormous change in that regard. By 2030 the targets, which are ambitious, will have to be met, otherwise we will have to pay an enormous price. The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Naughten, is working on a plan to increase availability of charge points, to which the Senator referred. He is due to deliver that fairly soon.

Senator Humphreys is quite right about buses. We need to make our buses more climate- friendly, and we have set targets on that. I have allocated money to the green public transport 758 29 November 2017 fund to facilitate pilot projects to prove that the fuels which were referred to will work in Ireland. The BusConnects investment, which I launched a few months ago and which is due to develop and put buses on the streets within 18 months, is also committed to upgrading our bus fleet to low-carbon buses. By 2023, we will have converted 500 buses to low-emission vehicles. It is worth recalling that public transport is only responsible for about 4.6% of emissions. However, it is symbolically important that we as a State, and I as a Minister, reduce them, to show an example to everybody else, in order that people cannot point the finger at us and ask if we do not do it, why they should. We are absolutely determined to do that. We have budgeted for that in the new capital plan, and I reiterate that by 2023, there should be 500 buses low-emission buses.

Senator Humphreys also referred to cycling and walking. We have committed to a figure in the new capital plan which is pretty dramatic. Imagine if Senator Humphreys was in my shoes, which God forbid he ever will be again. He knows I do not mean that. I would be delighted if he was. Our ambitions in this sphere are directed towards a smart transport policy, a healthy existence and low emissions. We have committed €108 million in the next three years, which is a substantial amount, to cycling and walking. That is a massive increase which either has not been noticed or has deliberately not been acknowledged. The cycling lobby is very strong. It is always making worthy and sensible suggestions and is highly vocal. However, it appears not to have responded terribly enthusiastically to what I regard as a significant new commitment to cycling and walking, not just in Dublin but elsewhere too. That should be acknowledged. It is a commitment we intend to keep and which is a fairly big step forward. It is not just a gesture to the direction in which Denmark and other countries have gone. It is a significant and ambitious figure, which I hope we will be able to increase in the years to come.

The question of petrol versus diesel is a constant problem, partly because of the political difficulties. Let us be honest about it, as there is a strong lobby against the conversion. However, we will move gradually towards it, come hell or high water. Furthermore, it is something which will move naturally when we convert to electric vehicles.

The use of taxes on fuel to address climate change was raised. Demand management questions are a complex area. Issues around competitiveness for freight and social cohesion in rural areas must be given due attention. That is absolutely compelling. Car use is relatively inelastic to increases in fuel price in the short term. We must, however, find ways to encourage car buy- ers to move away from diesel in the future. That is something to which I have asked my Depart- ment to give strong consideration. I acknowledge it is difficult, there are perfectly reasonable arguments on either side and there are peculiar difficulties which must be acknowledged.

Senator Mulherin talked about public transport, closing down the train routes to the west, the vision for a rail corridor and about the western railway corridor, WRC. There are scare stories in this regard constantly. I have not identified and nor have I sought any particular route for closure. Indeed, the programme for Government states quite specifically that nothing should be done to impede the western rail corridor. There was a rail review, of which Members will be aware, which addressed the subject of some railways being less unprofitable than others. There are absolutely no plans to privatise them of which I am aware and as a Minister, I probably would be aware of them. Furthermore, any development of this sort must be made in conjunction with the national spatial strategy. It would be absolutely mad to move on a transport link as fundamental as a railway independently of the national spatial strategy. They will have to be considered together, not in any other way, and that is what I intend to do. I think it is somewhat unfair to say the west is completely neglected because I opened the Gort-Tuam motorway a few days ago. That was extraordinarily expensive. It involved an enormous sum of public money, 759 Seanad Éireann over €500 million. That is a recognition of the need to spend money on transport in the west. That sort of balance should be drawn when we are talking about the difficulties of rural Ireland, which I fully acknowledge, but it is not all one way. It is not always the case that rural Ireland pulls the short straw. If there are other areas that are unfairly treated the Senator should please say so. I am very conscious of it. I hear about it every day. I can hardly move without people saying rural Ireland is neglected in a certain sense. I agree there are special circumstances in which rural Ireland deserves special treatment and I think it is getting that special treatment.

I hope I have addressed most of the issues raised. I have a note on aviation emissions but by their nature they must be addressed globally. Ireland is working hard within the International Civil Aviation Organisation, ICAO, to establish the mechanisms by which worldwide aviation emissions will be capped at 2020 levels and then progressively reduced.

Regarding the runway at Dublin Airport, whereas I sympathise with much of what Senator Grace O’Sullivan had to say, the Government is totally and utterly committed to it. I have met large groups of people who will be affected by it and we will do absolutely everything we can to assist them in the difficulties in which they find themselves. I am sure no other Minister has received as many delegations as I have from people around the airport. That is within the utter commitment that the economy of the country requires a runway of that sort. It will be subject to the usual environmental impact statements and everything like that but the idea that we could disadvantage ourselves economically in a way that would prohibit or deter people from coming to the country would be impossible for me to contemplate as someone who has to promote the tourism industry. It is always a matter of balance. Nobody is more sympathetic than I to the difficulties of those who might be environmentally disadvantaged by that particular runway but in the greater national interest we have to find a way to introduce it.

Sitting suspended at 5.24 p.m. and resumed at 5.45 p.m.

29/11/2017TT00100Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund 2017: Motion

29/11/2017TT00200Senator Michelle Mulherin: I move:

That Seanad Éireann approves the following Regulations in draft:

Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Regulations 2017,

copies of which were laid in draft form before Seanad Éireann on 13th November, 2017.

29/11/2017TT00300Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Creed): The horse and greyhound racing industries occupy a key position in the Irish sporting and social landscape and we as a nation have a strong affinity not just with racing but with the social scene at its core.

These industries receive financial support from the State through the horse and greyhound racing fund, under section 12 of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine makes payments from the fund to Horse Racing Ireland and to Bord na gCon.

In the period 2001 to date, a total of €1.12 billion has been paid from the fund to the horse and greyhound racing industries in accordance with the provisions of the Act. The cumulative upper limit on payments from the fund, provided under the relevant regulations, has therefore 760 29 November 2017 been reached. Exchequer funding provided from the fund is pivotal to the survival and continued development of the horse and greyhound racing industries. In order to give effect to the provisions of budget 2018, this cumulative upper limit must be increased by regulation. In order to allow my Department to provide the moneys allocated in budget 2018, it is necessary to comply with the technical requirement under section 12(13) of the Horse and Greyhound Rac- ing Act to increase the cumulative limit on the amount payable from the horse and greyhound racing fund by €80 million to some €1.2 billion.

The recent Deloitte report commissioned by Horse Racing Ireland indicates that the total direct and stimulated expenditure of the Irish breeding and racing industry is estimated at €1.84 billion in 2016. The core industry comprised €914 million of this, with secondary expenditure the remaining €927 million. In addition, it is estimated that there are 15,200 jobs at the core of the racing and breeding industry or in directly related industries.

The achievements of Irish bred and Irish trained horses abroad, and the enduring influence of Irish born jockeys and stable staff, underscore Ireland’s global prominence. We hold the distinguished position of being the third highest producer of foals, coupled with having the third highest number of active broodmares in the world. Government funding is crucial in order to maintain and build on our position as one of the world’s leading breeding and racing nations. Government funding of this key industry is an excellent opportunity to yield a high return for its investment, leading to a flow of income right through the economy. Support for certain strategic industries is important for future economic growth and can provide widespread benefits for our society as well as for our economy.

The greyhound industry is a significant industry for Ireland. It has been embedded in Irish society for decades and is an important activity from an economic, social and cultural perspective. It provides and supports considerable employment directly and indirectly across the country. The Irish greyhound sector has come through challenging times during the economic recession, but it continues to make a significant economic and financial contribution to the Irish economy, particularly at a local level. The Bord na gCon annual reports indicate that despite a severe recession the industry is recovering, showing an increase in operating surplus in 2015 and again in 2016.

Funds generated from greyhound racing are re-invested in the industry through contributions to prize money and grants to various bodies involved in the greyhound racing and breeding sector, as well as the promotion of greyhound welfare and the regulation of the industry. It has also contributed significantly to the improved facilities now available at greyhound tracks around Ireland. Greyhound racing is an activity which is inextricably linked to the farming community, and while it is undoubtedly part of the fabric of rural Ireland it also enjoys a strong urban base.

The Horse Racing Ireland Act 2016 introduced a range of improvements in governance and accountability arrangements, many of which derive from recommendations made by Indecon Economic Consultants following their review of the sector. It was also commissioned to conduct a review of certain matters relating to Bord na gCon in order to assess the suitability of the legal, governance and regulatory framework supporting the greyhound industry and to identify opportunities to maximise its commercial income.

In response to the recommendations made in the Indecon and Morris reports and the report prepared by the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, I have introduced a draft 761 Seanad Éireann general scheme of the greyhound industry Bill. The Bill addresses the governance of Bord na gCon, strengthens regulatory controls in the industry, modernises sanctions and improves integrity with a view to building a reputation for exceptional regulation in the sector.

As the House is aware, the draft general scheme of the Bill has progressed through the pre-legislative scrutiny phase and it is hoped that a memorandum will go to Government in the coming weeks requesting approval to publish the updated general scheme and to submit it to the Office of Parliamentary Counsel for drafting. The Bill will bolster the Irish greyhound industry, enable it

to deal with existing challenges and maximise its future potential.

I am sure we are all in agreement that more balanced regional economic growth is desirable and this is a key priority for Government. In this context, these industries should be given recognition for the considerable contribution that they make to rural economic activity and employment. The important contribution made by the horse and greyhound racing fund since its inception in 2001 has been vital to ensuring that these industries can continue to invest in their infrastructure.

Section 12(13) of the Horse and Greyhound Racing Act 2001 provides that a draft of these regulations be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas and a resolution approving the draft be passed by each House before the regulations are made by the Minister. Accordingly, I am asking Members for their support to ensure that Horse Racing Ireland and Bord na gCon receive the funding provided for in budget 2018 and that the very important role played by these industries, and the economic activity generated by them, are sustained into the future. I commend the regulation to the House and I look forward to discussing any matter arising.

29/11/2017UU00200Acting Chairman (Senator Gerard P. Craughwell): I neglected to welcome the Minister to the House before he spoke, so I will take this opportunity to do so. I thank him for being here.

29/11/2017UU00300Senator Paul Daly: I also welcome the Minister to the House. I would like to take this opportunity to extend my personal sympathies and those of my party on the death of his father over the weekend.

The Horse and Greyhound Racing Fund Act was introduced by Fianna Fáil in 2001. While I welcome the Bill and will support it, the amount of money being invested in both industries could be increased. I ask that we return, in some way, to the model which was introduced, whereby the fund provided annually was based on the off-course betting income levy of the previous year. Due to the fact that the levy decreased during the economic crisis, there is a net cost to the Exchequer over and above the betting intake. I ask the Minister and his colleagues in the Department of Finance to address gambling legislation, in particular the potential income from online offshore gambling. If and when that is done, the Minister should bear in mind that activity takes place online. We could bridge the gap and increase the money being paid to Horse Racing Ireland and Bord na gCon.

In so doing, the Minister would have to be cognisant of pitch and independent high street bookmakers who are, to coin a phrase, a dying race. Those of us who attend race meetings know that pitch bookmakers and the betting ring are an integral part of the experience. They are in competition with the online sector, and it is possible that they will not survive. While I seek an increase in the intake on the batting side, I would be fearful for their future. In examining that, I would like the Minister to come up with a device to incentivise that sector of the betting 762 29 November 2017 industry. We need to try to bridge the gap and eliminate the net cost to the Exchequer arising from the difference between online betting income and the horse racing and greyhound fund.

Some people have queried why we would allocate a significant amount of money to a sport. As the Minister rightly said, it is a thriving industry and one which is predominantly based in rural Ireland. The horse racing and greyhound sectors between them have created in the region of 25,000 jobs. The combined direct and indirect income from the industry, including tourism and attendance at race and greyhound meetings, is €2.34 billion. As the saying goes, one has to speculate to accumulate. It is a very worthwhile investment from the point of view of the Exchequer, given that the return is €2.34 billion.

We congratulate ourselves on and gloat, to an extent, about our enormous international success. I take this opportunity to congratulate Aidan and Joseph O’Brien and Willie Mullins on their recent success in the Melbourne Cup. There are people in the sector who 6 o’clock reach that peak. However, this fund keeps those at the bottom of the pyramid going. Without a conveyor from small two, three and four brood mare breeding outfits and small training yards with a small number of horse, smaller racetracks such as Kilbeg- gan, in which I am involved, would not survive. I have no doubt that a Senator on the other side will take the opportunity to mention Ballinrobe in her contribution. Provincial race tracks and small breeding outfits depend on the fund the most. Without their survival, we would not have a conveyor of horses coming through and young jockeys, who dream of and hope to reach the top of the spire, would not be trained. It is a very worthwhile investment in an industry which is an integral part of our make-up.

As I said at the outset, I would like the fund to be increased, which can be done at no extra cost to the Exchequer.

We are all fearful and wary of Brexit because we have no idea what way it is going to go. There is every possibility that this industry is going to need more funding just to sustain itself, not to mention improving. As the saying goes, the day one stands still is the day one starts going backwards. We do not know what Brexit will bring. This is an all-island industry and its other main source of income is the sale of media rights which is done in sterling. The industry may need extra funding just to survive and we must be cognisant of that fact.

The Minister mentioned the greyhound industry Bill and I would urge him to get it approved by Cabinet and into motion as soon as possible. We are all very aware of the political circumstances in which we found ourselves last weekend. While the aforementioned Bill may not have been a priority for many in terms of what would be thrown out with the bath water, it is legislation that would have ended up on a shelf for God knows how many more months. I would urge the Minister to get that Bill through Cabinet and before the Houses as soon as possible because it is a very necessary instrument for the greyhound industry going forward, particularly in terms of improving and enhancing governance, administration and animal welfare.

In conclusion, Indecon produced a report on harness racing and a request has been made for seed funding. I would like the Minister to address that matter. I would also ask for additional funding for that going forward. Contrary to everything I have said to date, I would not like to see the Minister divide the existing funding three ways. Several issues came up during the debate which were unrelated to the Bill but which require the Minister’s attention including employment law and rate valuation. While we are funding an industry here, there are other arms of the State trying to take money back from it and to disimprove conditions within it. The 763 Seanad Éireann Minister will probably not be able to comment because of WRC issues and so forth but I would like him to keep an eye on where the line is drawn in terms of when a farming activity stops becoming a farming activity in the context of rates and employment law.

29/11/2017VV00200Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill: Like my colleague Senator Daly, I would like to begin by offering my heartfelt condolences to the Minister on the death of his father, Donal Creed, who I understand served as a Member of Dáil Éireann for 22 years. Former Deputy Creed passed away last week and his funeral took place on Monday. It is remarkable that the Minister is here, serving his country in the Houses of the Oireachtas this week. I ask him to accept my deepest sympathies at this time.

The motion before us this evening refers to the horse and greyhound racing fund which is an important source of revenue for the horse racing industry and the greyhound sector. The horse racing industry is crucially important to the economic output of the Irish economy and to our international footprint. The sector has been transformed through legislation brought before the Oireachtas in recent years to develop the industry. The achievements are quite remarkable and the value for money derived from the investment in the horse racing sector is unquestionable. Sadly, however, at the other end of the spectrum, the greyhound sector leaves a lot to be desired. I had the pleasure this afternoon of meeting the new CEO of the Irish Greyhound Board, Mr. Gerard Dollard, who is a gentleman and I wish him well. I hope he will listen to the grassroots and that the sector can move forward. There are critical issues within the sector that deserve attention, not least the issues of standalone funding and transparency and accountability in terms of how the money is being spent.

Approximately €16 million of the horse and greyhound racing fund will go to the greyhound sector next year. That amounts to just over €300,000 per week to the Irish Greyhound Board. Irrespective of the amount of money involved, crucial questions from ordinary greyhound breeders and owners remain unanswered. I have confidence however, following my meeting with him this afternoon, that the new CEO is willing to engage and to listen, which I very much welcome. The greyhound industry has the potential to be a standalone sector, even without this subvention from the Government although I am not suggesting for one moment that the subvention should not be provided. The industry will struggle to reach its full potential, however, given what is happening at the moment. We have 16 stadia, some of which are in the process of being taken over by the banks, including one in Lifford in County Donegal. Of the 16 stadia, eight are owned by the Irish Greyhound Board and the remainder are privately owned. There is a real need to improve the corporate governance of Irish Greyhound Board by improving transparency, communications and accountability in order to realise the full potential of the sector. One of the ways of doing that is through the greyhound industry Bill, which is due to come before these Houses shortly. I would appeal to the Minister in the strongest possible terms to bring that Bill before these Houses as quickly as possible. I have not read the Bill yet and will reserve judgment on it. If I feel the need, I will certainly propose amendments to it but it can provide the roadmap for transforming the industry and breathing fresh air into it.

The Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy An- drew Doyle, did an excellent job when he was Chairman of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. I served on that committee which met all of the interested stakeholders within the greyhound sector. The committee published a report containing 16 different recommendations and I hope those recommendations will be provided for in the aforementioned Bill.

764 29 November 2017 There are very serious issues around drugs within the greyhound sector. One of the greyhound trainers who was fined after a dog tested positive for a prohibited substance earlier this year was awarded the Greyhound Review’s personality of the year recently. I do not think that sends out the right message in the context of either transparency or integrity. Given that all of this is happening and given that so much of the funding goes directly to the organisation, there is an urgent need to review what is going on. I could cite many examples in the House this evening of concerns with regard to artificial insemination and illegal dogs continuing to run at various meetings all over the country. These issues must be addressed. I am not sure what is the intention with regard to the board of the Irish Greyhound Board. Is it proposed to review the membership or chairmanship of that board? The current chairman has seen five CEOs come and go during his tenure. Maybe there is a need to freshen up the board with new members. Questions are being asked in terms of the confidence of grassroots members in certain board members. When such questions are being asked, Government must listen, reflect and act on them and I would urge the Minister to do so. I look forward to the greyhound industry Bill coming before the House very shortly.

29/11/2017VV00300Senator Michelle Mulherin: I welcome the Minister to the House. I also offer my condolences to him and his family on the loss of his father, Donal Creed. We all know that whatever one’s personal circumstances, politics just keeps rolling on and does not stop for anything, even significant personal events that can happen in our lives. I offer the Minister my sympathies today.

It is very appropriate that we are here to talk about the €80 million in funding that has been provided in budget 2018 for our horse and greyhound racing industries and to talk about the contribution they make to local economies, which is particularly critical in rural areas, as well as to the national economy.

We can look back over many generations, where people lived hand to mouth and many could not afford to own a horse for racing, but Irish people had a passion for horses, dogs and other animals. It is a long tradition which is not just for kings and queens but also for the ordinary person. Today we have a fully fledged industry which is very labour intensive and provides significant employment in areas where it is difficult to encourage employment. The breeding of horses and dogs contributes to the industry. It is not only Irish people who attend races but also tourists. Particularly in horse racing, our animals are renowned as thoroughbreds and are very desirable in international markets. It is only right that we invest in the industry, which in effect means investing in our people and economy.

As we are investing considerable funds in both greyhound and horse racing, it is important that there is accountability, the buzzword of this week, in all financial matters. I note that the Horse Racing Ireland Act gave effect to the Indecon report which modernised the horse racing industry in its accountability to Government. Now we are set to follow suit with the implementation of the Indecon and Morris reports with the greyhound industry Bill, which I hope deals with concerns raised by Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill. Nobody can stand over money being spent where it should not be. There are issues around animal welfare. We can have both, but there have to be standards and we must implement them. Just because there might be issues around animal welfare does not mean that an entire industry should be shut down. We have to get the balance right, but we must be tough on those who abuse animals, and that involves people coming forward to point it out.

As my colleague across the House rightly pointed out, I would like to acknowledge that 765 Seanad Éireann at a local level I see people who love their dogs and horses. The race meetings at Ballinrobe racecourse are a great source of local pride, they are very social occasions and it is a tonic to get out to on an evening and meet people. It is a home-grown leisure amenity. I commend the people who run it. I know these funds are critical to their ongoing work and expansion. They do their best to bring people into the local area and make the most of it for the local economy. It is very worthwhile and I am glad to see Government and Opposition supporting the objectives we have before us this evening.

29/11/2017WW00200Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: We had an opportunity to discuss this matter in the Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine when I raised my concerns relating to the Irish Harness Racing Association. I acknowledge that the Minister is supportive of what it is trying to do and his comments at the committee, which I appreciate. I know that, because of the part of the country that the Minister comes from, he recognises the potential of all this. However, the difficulty is that the motion before us relates to funding for the horse racing and greyhound industries. I see it as related to the Irish Harness Racing Association. I am mindful of the In- decon report which was published during the year. The Minister told the committee that the Department would need a five-year strategic plan, assurances around corporate management and so on, before money could be released, and I appreciate that, but there is a chicken-and-egg problem here, or perhaps one of putting the cart before the horse, on sequencing. The harness racers need seed funding.

29/11/2017WW00300Deputy Michael Creed: It is a sulky.

29/11/2017WW00400Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Yes. They require seed funding to do what the Min- ister has asked of them. If corporate management and structures were not right, the Opposi- tion would be the first to complain and challenge the Government and the Department, so the Minister must do those things and receive assurances that the money will be spent properly. I have no doubt that the Irish Harness Racing Association wants to do that. It just needs financial assistance. I am taking this opportunity to ask once again for the Department to release seed funding to allow the association to put those structures in place and then be in a position to draw down the capital funding required to allow it to develop its potential. The Minister will know that significant investment is coming in from France and elsewhere, there is a real interest in the Irish product.

Unfortunately, it is a sport that has drifted over the years from what it was in Ireland, but it would be wonderful to bring it back again. There are high-calibre, very committed people who are currently volunteers but who want to step up. I ask the Minister if he and his Department, in a collaborative and facilitative way, could work with them on this. I would like to see the funding which they seek released in 2018. I have said so here and at the agriculture committee. That committee, on an all-party basis, has been very supportive of the Irish Harness Racing As- sociation’s potential for several years, and its support in the previous Dáil was what led to the Indecon report being commissioned. The agriculture committee continues to support it on an all-party basis, so this is not a plea from myself personally but collectively from all its members.

I am concerned about problems around alleged doping in the greyhound industry. Sadly, I must raise the matter of Clonbrien Hero. It is a disturbing debacle when The Washington Post is writing about it. The trainer of Clonbrien Hero is Graham Holland. According to a report in The Sunday Times earlier this year, five greyhounds tested positive for traces of pentobarbital, a banned substance. It seems that there were not clear guidelines from the Irish Greyhound Board on dog feed and the owner was cleared. One could argue that it was a loophole, and that is the 766 29 November 2017 impression that I got from media reports.

The same trainer has a champion dog that has won everything. The Minister will be familiar with it, having presented it with the laurel in his official capacity. It has cleaned up. It is a champion dog. It has become an international story because the same trainer is connected with this dog which has failed three drug tests, including when it won the event that the Minister had attended. The excuse that was given was that cocaine can pass from cash onto hands, following which someone might pet a dog, an idea absolutely rubbished in The Washington Post report. It said that it was nonsense that those levels of cocaine might come from any denomination of note into the bladder of a dog. There are serious issues. The Irish Greyhound Owners and Breeders Federation has raised questions about this issue, about which it has written extensively. I will wrap up on this point and I thank the Acting Chairman for his patience. The federation, which is trying to clean up the sport of greyhound racing, have made serious criticisms of Bord na gCon’s lack of success in tackling doping. We should ask more of the Irish Greyhound Board when the champion dog - it is actually a bitch - has been found in this position and such question marks are hanging over the industry. The Oireachtas is again releasing substantial public funding to greyhound racing industry and we debated this issue last year.

I appreciate the point made by colleagues who spoke of the financial return made by the horse and greyhound racing industries and our pride in the horse breeding sector. That is a fair point but we have a serious doping problem in the greyhound industry. The Government must confront the problem and we must demand better outcomes. It is deeply embarrassing to have The Washington Post and other international newspapers reporting on the issue. It is making a laughing stock of the industry and bringing down wonderful people involved in it. The members of the Irish Greyhound Owners and Breeders Federation are decent greyhound owners and breeders who want this issue addressed. We need to sort it out.

29/11/2017XX00200Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Creed): I thank Sena- tors who spoke on the motion before the House. I will first deal in summary with the broader greyhound issues. In 2016, a total of 5,387 analytic samples were taken from greyhounds, of which 48 resulted in a positive test. In my view, this is 48 too many positive tests. There are, however, issues around the interpretation of results in terms of levels, circumstances and context. I do not propose to go into this issue, nor do I intend to comment on any specific case or media coverage of these matters. There are media outlets which are entirely hostile to the greyhound industry and will avail of every opportunity to denigrate it. It is important to put this issue in context. It is relatively small and receives disproportionate media coverage. As I stated, however, 48 positive tests are 48 positive tests too many.

One of the objectives of the forthcoming legislation is to provide a new regulatory statutory framework for the greyhound racing industry. I hope the legislation will be approved by the Government before the end of the year and debated in the Houses early in 2018. It will deal with integrity and governance in the greyhound industry, other issues and the current inadequate statutory structures. Significant heavy lifting was done by the joint committee in the pre-legislative scrutiny stage and this work has been taken on board and will be reflected in the Bill. As the legislation passes through the House, I hope it will be improved through the input of Members.

I do not want a message to go out that this industry has a problem that is out of control. The figures I cited - 48 positive results out of 5,387 tests in 2016 - give an indication of the extent of the problem. A question also arises regarding the subsequent interpretation of the 48 positive 767 Seanad Éireann results, although I do not propose to comment in detail on that issue.

I acknowledge Senator Paul Daly’s broadly positive comments on the motion and proposed funding. I also take his point that we would like to further increase funding for the industry, which will not increase compared with last year. However, it must also be borne in mind that the allocation was increased by €6 million in each of the preceding three years. We have, therefore, had three successive years of substantial funding increases for the industry. In the context of a difficult budgetary position, funding for 2018 will remain at the same level as in 2017. I am satisfied that the funding provided is adequate.

In the broader equine sector, we have proposed increased funding for the sport horse sector, an area of the industry that shows significant potential. This funding follows the implementation of the recommendations on governance set out in the Indecon report. I will speak in a moment on harness racing. There is good reason to be optimistic that the sport horse sector can make further progress on the basis of the analysis done by Indecon.

The equine industry is an all-island industry and Brexit brings a degree of uncertainty as to how it will develop. We have had considerable engagement with the sector on Brexit matters, the all-Ireland nature of the sector and the tripartite governance between Ireland, the United Kingdom and France on the movement of horses, etc. It is a cause of significant concern and one that we have brought to the attention of the Barnier negotiating team.

I also note Senator Daly’s observation on matters currently before the Workplace Relations Commission. We retain an interest in and watching brief on these matters. I am conscious that this issue could have an adverse impact on the sector generally but particularly on smaller yards and training and breeding establishments. We await the outcome of the WRC’s deliberations.

Senator Mulherin referred to animal welfare, which is one of the issues that will be part and parcel of the new legislation. There will be improved standards in greyhound welfare. Adverse publicity can be expected on all animal welfare issues. My Department is working with and providing significant funding to a variety of animal welfare organisations. I propose to increase this funding next year and allocations in this area will be made shortly. There will be no hiding place in my Department on animal welfare issues. The law in this area has been improved significantly to ensure people who are guilty of animal welfare abuses are dealt with.

Senator Paul Daly referred to Kilbeggan race course and Senator Mulherin referred to Ball- inrobe race course. Both Senators will be aware that a programme of improvements in capital investment in racecourses is under way. Unfortunately, while I have passed Kilbeggan on recent visits to Senator Daly’s part of the country, I have not yet visited the town’s racecourse. That is a treat that awaits me.

29/11/2017XX00300Senator Paul Daly: The Minister has an open invitation.

29/11/2017XX00400Deputy Michael Creed: I have, however, seen the investment being made in other racecourses. Improving facilities at racecourses is critical to punters and the welfare of horses.

I also take Senator Daly’s point that greyhound and horse racing meetings would be much the poorer if we were to lose the colour associated with on-course bookmakers. While I am aware that issues have arisen between on-course bookmakers and Horse Racing Ireland, I am led to believe these have been substantially resolved. I hope that is the case because the tracks would be rather colourless if we were to depend entirely on tote betting and online betting, with 768 29 November 2017 fellows placing bets on their mobile phones and so on. We need to be conscious of this issue.

On harness racing, I dealt with this matter and I appreciate the issue raised by Senator Mac Lochlainn. I have met the organisation to which the Senator referred and I understand what it wishes to achieve. The Indecon report makes clear what road needs to be travelled. This destination cannot be reached overnight, however, and I appreciate it is a challenge for the organisation in question.

In terms of the disbursement of public funds, we must ensure the organisation is fit for purpose. I believe it will get to that point but it will take time for it to establish itself, meet corporate governance requirements, produce a five-year strategy, etc. We will work with them. I have made this point to them and my Department’s door is open to them in terms of guidance and advice. We are increasing the funding available under a pilot programme that we have run with them up to now as a symbol of our goodwill. We will work with them to get them to where we want them to be because we see public gain to be had as well from being able to work with the Irish Harness Racing Association. This is not just to achieve the potential of the sector, which is undoubtedly significant and untapped at the moment, but also the issues of horse welfare and sulky racing on public roads. A proper competitive structure that can deal with that in an appropriate setting rather than on public roads where it is unauthorised in many instances and ungoverned, would be beneficial to everybody.

I hope I have not missed anything. I appreciate the points made by Members and I will reflect on those that are not specifically germane to the motion. I thank the Members for their support of the proposal.

29/11/2017YY00200Acting Chairman (Senator Tim Lombard): I thank the Minister.

Question put and agreed to.

29/11/2017YY00450Ireland’s Bid for European Banking Authority: Statements

29/11/2017YY00600Acting Chairman (Senator Martin Conway): I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Michael D’Arcy, to the Chamber. He is very familiar with this setting.

29/11/2017YY00700Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Michael D’Arcy): I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the discussion on Ireland’s bid for the European Banking Authority. We also had a very good discussion last week in Dáil Éireann.

Ministers from the 27 EU member states decided last week where to locate the European Banking Authority, EBA, and the European Medicines Agency, EMA, when both agencies leave the UK. This was a real and visible example of how the EU was moving on in light of the UK voters’ decision. Both processes were hotly contested with eight countries in the running for the European Banking Authority and 19 for the European Medicines Agency. The decision on both counts came down to the drawing of lots and in the end, Paris was confirmed as the new host of the EBA and Amsterdam as the host for the EMA.

Ireland had submitted two credible bids to host either the European Medicines Agency or the European Banking Authority. The Irish bids were seen by other member states and the Eu- ropean Commission as strong due to the size of our pharmaceutical and financial services sectors, the large number of global companies based here from those sectors and also the signifi- 769 Seanad Éireann cant number of skilled workers with relevant experience in both sectors. Connectivity to other parts of the Union was also noted as being good in the case of the Irish bids. In addition, Ireland was seen as one of the locations that would be least disruptive to the important work of the two agencies and to their staff and families as they relocated. As the process advanced we decided to concentrate our efforts on the EBA campaign. This allowed us to allocate our resources to one bid. Like a number of other member states, we formally withdrew our candidacy for the European Medicines Agency shortly before the bidding process closed.

The bids for both agencies involved intensive work by the Government to showcase Ireland as a modern, developed economy that is outward looking and has the proven ability to host large modern entities. The bid documents detailed Ireland’s rich historical and cultural roots as well as the cultural diversity of modern Ireland. The European Commission’s analysis of both of our bids was strong and this was also recognised by our European partners during political and official engagement to seek support.

The process of building support for our European Banking Authority bid involved engagement with other member states. This involved a number of ministerial visits to capitals, including my own visits to nine member states over a two-week period in late September. Our bid was also promoted through engagement by Ministers and officials from the Department of Finance and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on the margins of meetings held in Europe and elsewhere. Contact was also made through our embassy network as well as with the relevant foreign embassies in Dublin. Indeed, our embassy network proved to be invaluable to us in our efforts.

As a result of all of these engagements, it was widely held that Ireland had a strong, well thought-out and professionally presented bid and was a credible and strong candidate to host the European Banking Authority. Ireland received strong support in the first and second rounds of the contest and secured the support of 12 other member states from right across the Union. This strong support for our bid remained, despite the fact that two larger member states, France and Germany, were also in the final stages. Our support came from founding member states, the Nordic and Baltic member states, new member states from the east and from member states in the Mediterranean region.

The European Banking Authority plays a vital role in the European system of financial su- pervision and it is essential that its work, which helps to protect consumers and contributes to the Union’s financial stability, continues during the transition. What is most important now is that there is a smooth transition and successful relocation for the authority.

In all of our engagements throughout the bidding process it was clear that we are seen as a good neighbour by our European colleagues and we are seen by many of the newer member states as a country that they can learn from. I believe it is important for us to recognise the efforts made at a political level and by officials from the relevant Departments involved in the two bids. This was a highly-competitive process and to get to the final round was a major achievement. To have it be decided by the drawing of lots makes the outcome even more disappointing.

However, while disappointing, Ireland obtained support from across the Union and across regional blocks. That was due to the professionalism we showed in preparing our bids, the strong message which we had, and the way that we went about building support for our case. During that process it was clear that Ireland is held in high regard by our fellow member states and I believe this will stand to us in the future. It is important for us to remember that despite 770 29 November 2017 the disappointment of losing out, we have proven that even as a small member state we can mobilise our resources in Departments and overseas missions to convert that positive view of Ireland into tangible support when we need to. As such, the job at hand now is to build on this momentum and I believe we will.

29/11/2017YY00800Senator Mark Daly: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy D’Arcy, to the House. The decision came down to the split vote of 13-13 and the drawing of lots. We are disappointed at the outcome. However, it shows the strength of the case put forward by Ireland that even Frankfurt, vying to be one of the financial centres of Europe, did not make it to the final round with ourselves and Paris. No doubt the French Government is delighted because of course it adds to its efforts to make Paris the new financial centre of Europe.

We have to commend the diplomats and the officials who worked on this issue. While the authority does not have a huge number of staff it does assist in enticing other banks to Dublin. One issue that came up in the Seanad discussions and debates on Brexit was that the Central Bank no longer goes out and sells Ireland as a location. It came as some surprise to us that it was unaware as to whether other European central banks were selling their particular capitals or countries as locations for financial institutions that would be leaving London and going to the eurozone or the European Union. I know it is a side matter but it is important. There is a problem as after a crisis, there is a tendency over-regulate. People said central banks should not be a policeman and salesman at the same time so they split the function and they would not allow the Central Bank to be a salesman any more. The other central banks are doing it and we need to follow suit.

There was support for the bid in the form of €13.5 million in rental support and €1 million for staff relocation, which was part of the package put forward by the Government. It sounds like an enormous sum but I am sure it could have been recouped if we managed to secure those bodies, as other businesses would have been attracted and located around them. We are now in a highly competitive world and when it came to the drawing of lots, unfortunately it was in the lap of the gods. Other matters came into play with regard to child care and taxation consider- ations for high earners, as well as the issue of accommodation. There are other agencies and EU functions we hope to be able to attract, as well as other businesses. The fact we came so close with this one demonstrates we are making a competitive case with Dublin and Ireland as a location for much of the business that will fall out of Britain as a result of Brexit.

29/11/2017ZZ00200Senator Kieran O’Donnell: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy D’Arcy, back to the Chamber. I might dare to say he is here more than some Senators.

29/11/2017ZZ00300Senator Mark Daly: He is here more than he was when he was a Senator.

29/11/2017ZZ00400Senator Kieran O’Donnell: That is in no way to demean the work of other Senators who are extremely busy outside the Chamber. The rub of the green was not with us in this proposal. I hope a double-headed coin was not used but we were just unlucky. That we got to the point where we were unlucky is indicative of a phenomenal amount of work being put in, both by the Minister of State with responsibility for financial services and other ministerial areas, including the Minister of State, Deputy McEntee, and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, etc.

We are now in a new European paradigm. Britain is no longer involved, although we hope perhaps it will reconsider and see the light. We must prepare for the strong possibility it will

771 Seanad Éireann no longer be involved. Ireland was competing against one of the big two in the form of France and it was a competitive bid. To use a soccer analogy, although we have beaten France on occasion, the likelihood is we would not be playing at the same level. Here, Ireland was playing competitively in terms of skill sets. This is not to demean the standard of Irish soccer players but I am making the point that we were competing on a very high level. I hope and expect this augurs very well. As a country we must now consider our competitive advantages and disad- vantages across a range of areas with regard to our partners in Europe and the UK. I have no doubt the Department is doing the good exercise of examining where we stand with legislation, regulation and competitive advantage. Other countries may have updated or changed regulations and authorisation procedures and we must ensure we are as competitive as them. We must operate in a European and global arena in a competitive manner. With regard to the European Banking Authority, generally the expectation when this process started was that Ireland would not have been at the races. It showed that we adapted very quickly to the new environment with the UK not being involved in the long term. Ireland was very much able to compete. There was a strategic decision made to withdraw from the bid for the European Medicines Agency, which was correct.

I appeared before the European Parliament’s Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs approximately one month ago. The issue in question was the common consolidated corporate tax base and I represented the finance committee of these Houses. We were dealing with various matters but the UK input was missing. It would have been a natural ally but it was not there. We must adapt to this and deal with it. There has been a change in the paradigm of how we will operate. France and Germany must realise it is important we have an inclusive Europe, and we should operate on the principles of the founding fathers of Europe, namely, that people are equal and we all have something to contribute. Ireland brings skill sets and we are very much leaders in the likes of financial services and banking. We had a Minister recently visiting Northern Trust in my constituency, which is expanding at a major rate. Close to 1,000 people will be working there in a relatively short period and these are the growth areas for us.

We did not win this bid but it was not through any fault or lack of effort on the part of the Government or the Minister of State in that area. We were unlucky. I hope that in future the smaller countries on the periphery like Ireland will see comparative weighting in such processes. This would ensure a proper spread in the regions. I commend the work done on this, which augurs well for the future paradigm in Europe. I hope Britain sees the light about the impact that will come from a harsh Brexit. I hope the British people will at some point reconsider their decision. They may see it as positive for Britain to stay within the EU.

29/11/2017ZZ00500Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: It is good to see Senator Conway as the Acting Chairman and he looks well. It suits him.

29/11/2017ZZ00600Acting Chairman (Senator Martin Conway): I could get used to it.

29/11/2017ZZ00700Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: Try not to. It suits you. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí an Seanad arís agus gabhaim buíochas leis as a bheith linn anocht. Mar a dúirt an bheirt chainteoirí a chuaigh romham, ábhar thar a bheith tábhachtach é dúinn a phlé agus ba chóir dúinn comhrá a bheith againn fá dtaobh de na cúrsaí is déanaí. An rud is tábhachtaí ná go bhfuil seal againn foghlaim ó na botúin agus na meancóga atá déanta, agus is léir é sin, ó thaobh na tairisceana de chuid an Stáit.

I want to approach this topic as respectfully as I can. Before I came here tonight for these 772 29 November 2017 statements, which is not a debate, I thought to myself what is the point in us having statements on Ireland losing due to our bid not being drawn out of a hat. I say that very respectfully to the Minister of State and his officials who worked on what I have no doubt was a significant bid. One wonders when it comes down to something as blunt, and some would even suggest as crass, as that, what is the point in us coming here to talk about a bid that was drawn out of a hat. To reduce the bid to that level does a huge disservice to the level of input that the Minister of State and many of the officials had made to the process.

I would have liked to have seen the European Banking Authority relocate to Dublin. It may well have done a better job of keeping an eye on the banks here than our own gatekeepers have done. Ideally, I would like to see a situation where we could make an argument, campaign and bid for the facility to locate to the cities of Belfast and Derry as a result of a special status or arrangement being granted to Ireland, given the negative impact of Brexit facing the entire country. Sin scéal eile fá choinne lá éigin eile, áfach.

The potential of the European Banking Authority relocating to Ireland raised some serious questions. For example, where would the hundreds of staff live? Would we honestly be able to say that the transport links, education, health and housing are up to scratch? There was potential for 141 staff to move from floor 147 of Canary Wharf in the centre of London to Dublin. It was not a greenfield site move but where staff in an existing organisation would have to move en masse. Therefore, in any bid like this Dublin would have to demonstrate that existing transport links, schools and housing stock are up to the task of taking in a large number of families all at once.

Very often there is a lie peddled that Sinn Féin in government would be a threat to foreign direct investment. It has been said repeatedly by major companies who decide against locating to Ireland that the major obstacles are the lack of investment in social infrastructure. Instead of investing in these areas the Government recently decided to prioritise tax cuts for the well-off. A lack of infrastructure is one of the major challenges the State faces as a consequence of nearly a decade of underfunding of capital infrastructure. In light of Brexit this investment is all the more critical. The 2016 global competitiveness report ranked inadequate supply of infrastructure as the most problematic factor for doing business in Ireland. We cannot face the challenges of Brexit with such a handicap at the start. I am sure that the Minister of State recognises and appreciates that viewpoint.

As Members will know, Ireland has the fastest growing population in Europe and will continue to do so for the coming decades with the population of the island estimated to reach 10 million by the middle of the century. However, we have one of the lowest levels of capital investment in Europe. Successive European Commission reports have highlighted infrastructure deficiencies as a threat to long-term growth. That is neither acceptable nor sustainable. The face of the under-investment can be seen in the housing and health crises, the lack of flood de- fences, our children being educated in prefabs and raw sewage flowing into our rivers and seas. That is not an economy that can face and survive the impact of Brexit. Now is the time to invest in our infrastructure. With the myriad of crises we face from the lack of capital investment and the dark clouds of Brexit looming large, it is essential that we develop and support indigenous enterprises properly to safeguard the economy. The economy is very exposed if multinationals decide to relocate away from the State at any stage. The risks are clearly evident when it comes to our corporation tax receipts. The Revenue Commissioners’ annual report for 2016 shows that more than 80% of the corporation tax yield comes from a small number of foreign-owned multinationals and only nine groups or companies pay almost 40% of corporation tax in Ireland. 773 Seanad Éireann I was surprised at the response by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to Ireland losing the bid. He called it bad luck. The Government needs to recognise that until improvements in infrastructure are made then there is no point in blaming the system or other states that do not vote for us.

29/11/2017AAA00200Senator Neale Richmond: I thank the Minister of State for coming here to address the Seanad.

I share some of the concerns expressed by Senator Ó Donnghaile. I am referring to a feeling of what is the point in rehashing a defeat. I have not watched the match where the Irish soccer team lost 5-1 to Denmark again and I have no intention of ever watching it again.

29/11/2017AAA00300Senator Niall Ó Donnghaile: Unfortunately, I was there.

29/11/2017AAA00400Senator Neale Richmond: Losing the EBA bid is not an ordinary defeat. To paraphrase another sportsman, one never loses, one learns. The Irish negotiating team will learn a lot from the bidding process. I genuinely and wholeheartedly commend the Minister of State present, the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Helen McEntee, and the entire team behind the bid. It is a great achievement for Ireland to reach the final two, particularly as so many countries applied and financial services form a large area. It offers huge potential for Ireland and Dublin going forward in the post-Brexit era of the European Union, particularly in the area of financial services and finance. The sector has been stressed so many times and not just by the Government, which the Minister of State is a part of. As I have said a million times, Brexit is a disaster and will be terrible for this country. We must grasp any sliver of opportunity or chance with both hands to offset the overall negativity. The financial services sector will present us with opportunities.

I know how hyperactive the Minister of State is and how his predecessor, the current Min- ister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, was in attracting financial services not just to Dublin but to Ireland as a whole. I say this as somebody who is Dublin based and sometimes shivered when I went outside the M50 for a Seanad campaign. The importance of attracting financial services to the entire Twenty-Six Counties is vitally important. At the moment only one third of our financial services are located outside Dublin. Some people will be surprised by that fact. One only has to point to FEXCO that is located in Senator Mark Daly’s home county of Kerry. There are many more examples of financial companies being located throughout the country be they in Waterford, Carrick-on-Suir or wherever else. That is where the potential lies be they in back office or front office opportunities.

I truly believe that the showing by the Irish Government and the Irish bid in the EBA process will stand to us. At the end of the day the decision was made by the toss of a coin. Ireland was in the final against Paris, which has a massive financial centre. I remember reading about the CAC 40, the French stock exchange, during my geography exams in school and everything else in my class on business organisation. I hope that everyone appreciates that it is an achievement for Ireland to get so far in the bidding process. There is no point saying, “Ah, well. We did not get it so why did we even bother?” It was worth going for and presents us with an opportunity to put what we have learned into the process.

There is one area which moves beyond finance and into the whole dynamic of the internal politics of the European Union. I refer to the countries that supported our bid. It was an impressive achievement for Ireland to reach the final round and an awful lot of diplomatic engagement

774 29 November 2017 was required. The countries that supported us are now our new allies. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade have said at length that we must develop relationships with our new allies. It is quite obvious in certain areas such as agricultural policy and the his- toric ties between Ireland and France when defending the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP. Let us consider the small member states, newer member states and member states to the east that want to embrace some of the taxation measures that we have introduced as a country.

When it comes to guaranteeing solid financial systems and services within the European Union we must answer the following. Who are our allies? Who can we go to again? Who will support us when we go to the next round of multi-annual financial framework discussions for 2021? Will these allies support Ireland again? Most importantly, how can we lead? Just because Ireland is a small country with a population of 4.6 million citizens does not mean we cannot play an important role in the European project and lead it post-Brexit. Ireland will be the only English speaking country in the EU after 2019 and, indeed, we will be the only country that will have a common law jurisdiction. Such a situation will provide a lot of interactions. We can lead. We can look beyond the original six member states of the European Coal and Steel Community. We can look at smaller member states. We can look at member states which have fought for independence in their own way much like we did. We should ask ourselves why we should not lead. We have been in the club for over 40 years and have been good Europeans. We are leading at this stage of the Brexit process so let us lead the financial services sector when it comes to Europe post 2019.

Again, I commend the Minister of State on his efforts and sincerely thank him for them.

29/11/2017AAA00500Acting Chairman (Senator Martin Conway): I commend the Senator on the work that he did with his Seanad special committee on Brexit.

29/11/2017AAA00600Senator Kevin Humphreys: I very much echo the comments of Senator Richmond. I acknowledge the amount of work done on the bid by the Irish diplomatic corps and the Minister of State. It would be worthwhile to analyse what we did well. We did an awful lot of things really well. There were elements that we could do better, which we can learn from.

One of the most important things that we must do now is acknowledge the countries that supported the bid by Ireland. We must build on that relationship, especially in terms of the newer countries that have joined the EU. We can build a strong alliance with the smaller EU countries.

The role that Ministers, Ministers of State and diplomats play on 17 March gives us access to governments. We need to build on those strong relationships.

We just missed out. On the toss of a coin, we missed out to France, but to get to that stage was work well done. We now must settle down and see how we can work together to ensure our international reputation is enhanced.

Unfortunately, the incident of the proposed visit to North Korea did not do our international reputation any good. The news that a Cabinet Minister proposed to go to North Korea went across the wold. We joked about it and had a wry smile at the idea, but from 7 o’clock talking to friends in other European states, they did not see the funny side of it. We knew the individuals and we took it as a joke, but it damaged Ireland’s international reputation. Ministers must understand they are in Cabinet and utterances such as these damage Ireland. I ask them to be cautious in future. 775 Seanad Éireann I thank the Minister of State for the work he has done on behalf of the State. It was difficult and meant that he put up a significant number of air miles. We came close and I hope the next time we will win through.

29/11/2017BBB00200Acting Chairman (Senator Martin Conway): I will ask the Minister of State to sum up. It is great to see one of our former colleagues rise to hold ministerial office.

29/11/2017BBB00300Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Michael D’Arcy): I thank the Acting Chairman, and I thank Members for their comments. On the question of air miles, I covered 16 countries in six weeks. At one stage I was in nine countries in two weeks.

(Interruptions).

29/11/2017BBB00500Deputy Michael D’Arcy: I apologise for my phone going off. I used to get into trouble for this when I was a Senator.

29/11/2017BBB00600Acting Chairman (Senator Martin Conway): We will choose not to hear it.

29/11/2017BBB00700Deputy Michael D’Arcy: The Acting Chairman is very kind.

I will make a couple of broad points. At the start of the process, it was said that we had no friends, it would be like the Eurovision song contest and we would get six points and be over to one side. That was not the case. We have many friends for a number of reasons, one of which is we are liked in Europe. We have worked hard and put in a good shift. We are not one of the European Economic Community’s founding states, but we joined it 44 years ago. Many of the newer member states see us as an example of where they would like to reach over time. We have become their yardstick. We have put in a lot of hard yards and mileage diplomatically. I thank the diplomats, who have been superb. I must be honest and say that I did not know how good they were until I went on this mission. They put in a really good shift in terms of the work they did all over Europe.

I thank my colleagues in government, the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Helen McEntee in particular. It was her gig as Minister of State with responsibility for Europe. I thank her senior line Minister, Deputy Coveney, who put in a big shift, and my senior line Minister, Deputy Donohoe. We were not just flying to a country or capital city and meeting people. On every occasion there were diplomats meeting other officials, whether it was at Eurogroup or ECOFIN meetings. I went to Washington for three days for the IMF and the World Bank meetings. It was quite remarkable that I was going to the capitals and meeting finance Ministers and officials at Eurogroup and other meetings. I in particular went from not knowing these people particularly well to having met them three times in two weeks. It did add up.

I will put the structure in context. Each country had three votes, one for three points, another for two points, and the third for one point. We felt strongly that we could get into the round of three. Our strategy was correct. Sometimes, one has to plot a pathway, be it in life or politics. We plotted a pathway to get to the round of three in the banking authority bid. Part of that pathway was effectively to withdraw from the European Medicines Agency bid. I could not see a pathway to get into the round of three in that bid, so we prioritised the other bid and got into its round of three. Subsequent to that, when everybody went back to zero and each country had a single vote, we got 13 votes out of 27 on the first round, which was a whisker away from a win. Looking back on it now, we had to win on the first round. We had 13 votes, France 776 29 November 2017 had ten votes and Germany had four votes. The Germans were eliminated and we went to the next round. It looked pretty good. As any of us who have ever been to a count will know, the other candidate must get all of the votes whereas all we need to do is swipe one. One country clearly chose to spoil its vote by marking both boxes. The three other votes for Germany went to France. With the combined power of Germany and France - clearly, a deal was done - France was able to draw level with us at 13 votes each. The names went into the hat and we lost. Those are the nuts and bolts of what happened.

There is a new dynamic. We have many friends in the Nordic and Baltic states. We also have friends in the new member states. If anyone says that Ireland’s friends will be gone after the UK has left, that will not be the case. There is a new dynamic and that is probably the really big story. We are one of a number of like-minded countries that have liberal views on trade, are non-protectionist and must trade their wares. We are a small nation but we sell our product. We do not have a population of 60 million to 80 million people with whom we can trade in our own borders. We must get out and sell. That is the reality of our situation.

I do not just want to refer to Dublin, as this is not just about Dublin, but about Dublin, Ire- land. As a financial services centre, it is the fourth largest exporter of services in Europe. When the UK leaves, it will be the third largest. I am being very proactive to try to ensure we push as strongly as we can. I get accused of being anti-Dublin, which is incorrect, but all of the jobs do not need to be in Dublin. There are superb examples of companies throughout the country. Letterkenny is a medium-sized town of 20,000 people, and the number of jobs created by both Pramerica and Optimus is 2,500 jobs. Northern Trust is located in Limerick. Somebody mentioned FEXCO in Killorglin. State Street is located in Kilkenny. In my own town, Zurich and BNY Mellon set up in Wexford town. Cork has a very strong sector also. The sector is based across Ireland. One third of financial service companies are located outside of our capital city, which is a good deal higher than in most other countries, but I am satisfied that we can do more.

Regarding Senator Mark Daly’s points, the Central Bank of Ireland does not have a promotional role. It did once upon a time. During my time in this House, Senator Kieran O’Donnell and I were members of the Joint Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis and spent two years in a windowless room. One of the issues we discussed was that it was not good for the Central Bank to have a promotional role. Very few central banks have promotional roles. A promotional role is my job and that of others, including the IDA.

It is important that we consider the positives. In preparing for the bid, we assessed schools and housing and were quite satisfied that we had sufficient school places and housing for 200 staff. Two hundred staff does not always mean 200 families, and some people were certainly going to commute. There are 370 flights from Dublin to London every week. It is one of the busiest flight routes in the world. There was no concern about schools, housing or infrastructural development. However, there was concern about whether we would have the capacity to get out and sell ourselves. We really did that well. The combined power and wealth of Ger- many and France could only draw with us. Our name ended up in the hat, making it a 50:50 chance, but we did not win. One thing I can assure the House that I saw very clearly in so many European capitals, and which I would not have known, is that they have traffic there as well. In fact it is worse than ours. Other states’ capitals have infrastructural deficits as bad as ours where housing, homelessness and other areas are concerned. I know of no jurisdiction where it is perfect. Some are better than others in some aspects, and indeed we are better than others in some aspects.

777 Seanad Éireann Senator Humphreys raised the question of what we did really well. We did a lot really well. For me, there is nothing as important as going to a capital as those of us who are politicians know, and we are all politicians in this Chamber. Looking our counterparts in the eye and tell- ing them we wanted their support and their vote was something we did really well. I mentioned the diplomats earlier. They kept abreast of it. They supplied running reports to Dublin pretty consistently. The reports were fed up the line to me, and we kept on top of it as best we could. I do not say this very often, but I honestly do not believe we could have done any more. I compliment the officials from the Department of Finance. We were all over Europe in a very short spell. People might think it is great to fly around Europe. We were in Vilnius for four hours. One flies in, drives straight from the airport, does the meeting, turns around, goes back to the airport and flies out. One of the people with me observed that one morning I got up and had breakfast in Riga, had my lunch in Stockholm, had my dinner in London and went home to bed in Wexford. That was the degree of flying and travelling that we were doing. It was busy and I really do not believe we could have done more. I want to thank everybody involved. The toss of a coin is what it got down to. Did people believe we could get into that race? A lot of people did not believe we would be in the race at all.

There is one thing I wish to conclude upon. We got into the race with Frankfurt and Paris. In the first round, we beat the pants off Frankfurt and we beat Paris. In the second round we were level with their combined numbers. Dublin, Ireland is on that level as an international financial services centre, and it is important that people realise how important this sector is to the Irish economy. There are 90,000 jobs in the sector, one third of which are outside of County Dublin. Ireland is the fourth largest exporter in the European Union, and I believe we can continue to be attractive. It would have been very nice to have the European Banking Authority based in Dublin, but such is life. On we go, and as Senator Humphreys said, we move on, we learn from what we did well, if there is more we can do, there are other opportunities, although I really do not believe there was more we could have done. We have a lot of friends and we are very highly regarded and respected throughout the continent of Europe.

29/11/2017CCC00400Acting Chairman (Senator Martin Conway): I thank the Minister of State. That concludes the statements on Ireland’s bid for the European Banking Authority. We will now move on to No. 6.

29/11/2017CCC00500Diplomatic Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017: Second Stage

Question proposed: “That the Bill be now read a Second Time.”

29/11/2017CCC00700Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Ciarán Cannon): I am pleased to have the opportunity to address the House on Second Stage of the Diplomatic Relations (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2017. The purpose of this Bill is to modernise and bring clarity to the legal framework in respect of various arrangements concerning the staff of diplomatic missions and international organisations. To this end, the Bill proposes various amendments to the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities Act 1967 as well as to citizenship, immigration and employment permits legislation, which have been developed in consultation with the Department of Justice and Equality and the Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation. These amendments are largely of a minor and technical nature.

I will briefly outline the contents of the Bill, which contains three parts with 11 sections. Part 1 of the Bill concerns preliminary and general matters. Section 1 provides for the Short 778 29 November 2017 Title of the Bill and section 2 is a technical clause. Section 3 repeals section 49 of the 1967 Act, which requires that the Government’s consent should be obtained before an Irish citizen can be appointed to serve in the State with an international organisation covered by the Act. This provision, which is now 50 years old, is not in line with contemporary practice in international relations. Another concern with section 49 is that it may be construed as interfering with an international organisation’s right to freely appoint its own staff. There are only a small number of Irish nationals serving in the State with international organisations covered by the 1967 Act. Furthermore, privileges and immunities enjoyed by officials of international organisations are of a much lesser, more functional nature in comparison to the wide-ranging privileges and immunities that apply to diplomats attached to foreign embassies. For these reasons, it is considered appropriate to repeal this provision.

Part 2 of the Bill amends the Government’s powers to make certain orders under the 1967 Act. Pursuant to powers set out in Part 8 of that Act, the Government may make orders extending privileges and immunities to an organisation, body or individual. For shorthand purposes, I will refer to these as “Part 8 organisations”. Such a procedure is considered desirable in order to extend routine privileges and immunities as required to give effect to the State’s international obligations, and to do so expeditiously, without the need for primary legislation, but in accordance with the principles and policies established by the Oireachtas. Some 60 orders have been made pursuant to Part 8 since the mechanism was established under the 1967 Act. In 2006, amendments were introduced to Part 8 to clarify the parameters within which the Government may make an order, enabling the Government to confer on Part 8 organisations privileges and immunities similar to those conferred on diplomatic missions.

However, in practice the nature of Part 8 organisations is likely to be more similar to that of the United Nations or other international organisations already dealt with in the Act. Therefore, it would be preferable to enable the Government to confer privileges and immunities on Part 8 organisations comparable to those enjoyed by the UN or other international organisations. Part 2 of the Bill aims to enable this by slightly broadening the parameters of the order-making power. It is intended that any such amendment would provide the flexibility required under the Government order procedure, while respecting constitutional limitations regarding the separa- tion of powers. No Part 8 organisation could be given privileges or immunities unless they are equivalent, or have like effect, to what has already been conferred by the 1967 Act.

Part 2 of the Bill will also permit the making of a Government order under section 42A of the 1967 Act in respect of arrangements with international bodies that do not, as a matter of law, constitute international agreements, for example, because the body is not an intergovernmental organisation. An example of such a body is the International Committee of the Red Cross, ICRC, with which the Government has signed a so-called “status arrangement”, which includes provisions on privileges and immunities. This Bill will allow the Government to make an order to give effect to this arrangement with the ICRC. It is further noted in this regard that Part 2 of the Bill also permits the Government to make an order to provide for the confidentiality of ICRC communications. Ensuring the confidentiality of its communications is considered crucial for the ICRC in light of its unique role and mandate. Part 2 of the Bill contains a saver clause designed to ensure the validity of any orders made under Part 8 of the 1967 Act to date. This saver clause is modelled on section 50 of the 1967 Act, as inserted by the Diplomatic Re- lations and Immunities (Amendment) Act 2006.

Part 3 of the Bill concerns citizenship, immigration and employment matters. The State’s long-standing policy in respect of staff attached to diplomatic missions has been to exclude 779 Seanad Éireann them from mainstream immigration controls, and thus from entitlements to citizenship flowing therefrom. However, in its judgment of the 24 June 2016 in the Rodis and Tolentino case, the High Court determined that two members of staff of diplomatic missions were entitled to have their residence in the State deemed reckonable for the purposes of naturalisation. The court noted that a specific statutory exception would be necessary to provide otherwise. This Bill provides for such an exception in section 9.

Section 9 also clarifies the position regarding citizenship by birth, making it clear that a child born in Ireland to a parent exempt from immigration controls under diplomatic arrangements will not acquire Irish citizenship unless entitled to acquire citizenship through another parent, such as where that other parent is an Irish citizen. The amendment provided for in section 9 will only apply prospectively and will be without prejudice to any period of residence ac- cumulated prior to the entry into force of the Act. A further feature of section 9 is that it corrects a minor anomaly in our citizenship legislation with regard to Irish public servants serving the State overseas. The correction will ensure that children born to public servants serving abroad, and the children of those children in due course, are not disadvantaged in terms of entitlement to Irish citizenship.

Section 10 of the Bill complements section 9 by clarifying the relationship between immigration and citizenship legislation in so far as it concerns staff of foreign diplomatic missions in Ireland. It inserts a new provision into the Immigration Act 2004 listing specific categories of individuals who are exempt from the terms of that Act. Of particular significance is the fact that family members of domestic workers in diplomatic missions or diplomatic households will be expressly exempt from immigration controls for the first time. This means that those domestic workers will be permitted to be accompanied by their immediate family members for the dura- tion of their posting in the State. This change is considered important, in the first instance, in order to respect such workers’ right to a family life. There is also some concern that the lack of a family support network may increase a domestic worker’s risk of exposure to isolation, exploitation and abuse. A number of alleged instances of abuse of domestic staff in diplomatic missions and households have arisen over the years, which has led to the recent adoption by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade of procedures and guidelines for missions. Facili- tating the residence of family members of domestic workers will complement the safeguards introduced by these procedures and guidelines.

Section 11, the final section of the Bill, amends the Employment Permits Act 2003. The 2003 Act, as previously amended, permits the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to issue a certificate to permit a foreign national family member of a foreign government employee on his or her posting to the State, who falls within the terms of a bilateral arrangement entered into with another government, to access the labour market without the need for an employment permit. These arrangements, known as working dependants agreements, are not typically entered into between countries within the European Economic Area because they are seen as inappropriate in the context of freedom of movement rules. This means that a third country national family member of an EEA diplomat in Ireland must apply for a mainstream immigration permission to avail of the right to work under European freedom of movement rules. In doing so, that family member effectively relinquishes his or her status as a family member under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

Section 11 aims to regularise this situation by permitting such family members to retain their status under the Vienna Convention, including the exemption from mainstream immigration controls, but permitting them to work through the issuing of a certificate by the Minister 780 29 November 2017 for Foreign Affairs and Trade. Making this amendment will only affect a handful of people but, nonetheless, it is considered a useful tidying up exercise in the context of a miscellaneous provisions Bill.

I commend the Bill to the House.

29/11/2017DDD00200Acting Chairman (Senator Frank Feighan): I now call Senator Aidan Davitt, who has eight minutes.

29/11/2017DDD00300Senator Aidan Davitt: Could I have more time?

29/11/2017DDD00400Senator Frank Feighan: Unfortunately, that is the order of the House. The Senator will have to speak quickly.

29/11/2017DDD00500Senator Aidan Davitt: We will have to abide by the rules that have been set down.

I thank the Minister for outlining his plan in terms of the Bill. The Bill proposes to extend the privileges and immunities the Government may confer on international organisations, communities or bodies to include those that are equivalent or have like effect to those set down in specific international conventions, including the 1961 and 1963 Vienna Conventions. The Bill will provide greater protection for domestic workers in diplomatic missions and households and will provide clarity with regard to citizenship and immigration rules for foreign diplomatic staff and consular staff and their private staff. It is important to have legal clarity on diplomatic missions and the status of their staff. We must ensure that, where appropriate, our law reflects international norms. As the Minister of State has outlined, there are no specific costs associated with this. Fianna Fáil welcomes the Bill and wholeheartedly supports it. We appreciate that it is before the House today.

29/11/2017DDD00600Senator Joe O’Reilly: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Cannon, to the House and commend him on his proactive endeavours since embarking on this Ministry. I wish him well.

The Bill will update existing law on diplomatic relations. Its amendments will allow Ireland to be more in line with standard practice in contemporary international relations by enhancing the efficiency of procedures for the operation of Ireland’s diplomatic relations. It is essential to ensure that there is legal clarity instead of the ambiguities that currently exist. In that respect, the Bill will clarify arrangements with respect to the staff of diplomatic missions and international organisations serving in the State. International relations are a matter of importance, especially since the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union. Indeed, the last item on our agenda relates to our bid for the banking headquarters. Therefore, we must consider all the benefits the Bill will provide. It will improve protection for domestic workers of consular and diplomatic missions as well as the household and will clarify citizenship and immigration rules regarding members of staff of a diplomatic mission and their family. The legislation is technical but it will lead to a positive development by aligning Ireland’s position with the practices of the main EU member states concerning the status of members of diplomatic staff and consular staff appointed by foreign governments. It is important that we are properly aligned in terms of our standing and good relations.

The Bill removes the requirement for Government approval for Irish citizens to be appointed to international organisations serving in Ireland, which is too cumbersome at the moment. The Bill, therefore, repeals section 49 of the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities Act 1967. Section 49 provides that Government consent should be obtained before an Irish citizen can be 781 Seanad Éireann appointed to serve in the State with an international organisation covered by the Act. A provision of this nature is not in line with standard practice in contemporary international relations and its repeal is therefore appropriate. It is inappropriate, too restrictive and should not exist. There is no reason Irish citizens should not apply for these jobs and get them without getting specific approval in each instance.

The Bill revises the statutory provisions enabling the making of a Government order af- fording privileges and immunity. Under the powers set out in Part VIII of the 1967 Act, the Government may make orders extending privileges and immunities to an organisation, body or individual. Such a procedure is considered desirable in order to extend privileges and immunities, as required, to give effect to the State’s international obligations and to do so expeditiously and without the need for primary legislation. In 2006, amendments were introduced to clarify the parameters within which the Government could make an order but, in practice, the amendment has given rise to some operational difficulties. They are being sorted out in the Bill with the parameters being adjusted. One example of a body that will be affected is the International Committee of the Red Cross. One would expect the Government to enter into a status arrangement in the near future with the ICRC which would include provisions on privileges and immunities.

The third major aspect to the Bill is that it provides that a period of residence in the State as a member of staff of a diplomatic mission or as a family member of such a member of staff is not reckonable for the purposes of naturalisation as an Irish citizen, and clarifies the rules concerning entitlement to citizenship by birth and to children born to staff of diplomatic missions. As the Minister of State has said, this provision was made necessary by a legal case. It is because of this court case that we need a statutory provision that the time spent on a diplomatic mission does not automatically provide for citizenship. This is how it should be and this is an important tidying-up of the law in this area.

The Bill clarifies the immigration status of the staff of diplomatic missions, including family members, and strengthens the safeguards for the protection of domestic workers in foreign missions and diplomatic households. The Minister of State has outlined the relevance of this in certain sad instances. This Bill also allows domestic and other staff to bring family members over and have them resident here, which is an important and civilised provision. It permits certain family members of foreign government employees to access the labour market in the State while retaining their status under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961. This means, in other words, that the family members of diplomats and their staff could work in this country and this, again, is a reasonable proposition. This Bill is technical to a degree but it will nevertheless have a real impact on the staff of diplomatic embassies in this country and on the status of diplomats and their households. It regularises the law on this and deals with the recent court case by stating that time spent working in an embassy is not reckonable for achieving citizenship, placing this instead under a different status.

This is all very worthwhile and important. As this is a Second Stage debate I would just like to remark that all of our diplomatic relations are important, as has been very much pointed up by the Brexit issue. We should be very proud both of our diplomatic staff internationally and of our Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade staff here at home. We have achieved so much in creating a consciousness and an awareness of, and support for, the Irish position right across Europe. I have the privilege of representing Ireland at the Council of Europe and of leading our delegation there. Talking to people in Europe, I notice the high level of awareness of the Irish position. This is no small achievement and is due to the work of our Department of Foreign 782 29 November 2017 Affairs and Trade and of its international diplomatic staff. We should be so proud of them. Our recent near-miss in bringing the European Banking Authority to Ireland - only to be beaten in a lottery - is another example of their success. In my role in the Council of Europe I deal with-----

29/11/2017EEE00200Senator Aidan Davitt: That was the last session.

29/11/2017EEE00300Acting Chairman (Senator Frank Feighan): Senator O’Reilly has only one minute left.

29/11/2017EEE00400Senator Joe O’Reilly: ----- our diplomatic mission there as led by our ambassador, Mr. Keith McBean, who has had extraordinary success in his role with the Council and as an ambassador for Ireland. It is important that we take reciprocal actions here, just as we are doing with this legislation, showing that we in Ireland reciprocate and create a good statutory and regulated environment for the diplomatic missions here. This legislation will be welcome among the staff of those embassies and will create legal certainty that can only be good for them and good for Ireland.

29/11/2017EEE00500Acting Chairman (Senator Frank Feighan): I call Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh. He has eight minutes.

29/11/2017EEE00600Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: Go raibh míle maith agat a Leas-Chathaoirligh. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus fáilte roimh na feidhmeannaigh óna Roinn. I welcome the fact that the Bill before us will improve and formalise procedures for the operation of Ireland’s diplomatic relations. I have one concern which I will address later. First, I generally welcome the introduction of this Bill which will enhance the efficiency and clarity of arrangements with respect to the staff of diplomatic missions and international organisations. The existing lack of clarity has been commented upon in the courts. The Bill will hopefully strengthen the rights of workers and their families and this is a positive development. The Vienna Convention on Dip- lomatic Relations 1961 and the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations 1963 codify what is perhaps one of the oldest and most accepted fields of international law, namely the formal relations between states and their official representatives. In order to facilitate the peaceful and efficient conduct of these relations, these treaties grant diplomats certain privileges and immunity, including immunity from the criminal, civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving state. While this is an important aspect to the functioning of peaceful international relations, such immunity has been abused by a small number of diplomats in Ireland and abroad, and it is important that we state this from the outset.

I welcome that Part 1, section 3, of the Bill repeals section 49 of the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities Act 1967, which requires Government approval for Irish citizens to be appointed to international organisations serving in Ireland. Such a requirement seems unnecessary and archaic and I welcome its repeal. I do not fully understand, however, why this requirement was there in the first place. I am sure that there was a reason behind it at the time but it is now outdated and it is good that it is being removed. Part 2, sections 4 to 8, of the Bill includes some simple technical amendments to sections 39, 40, 42A, 43 and 50 of the Diplomatic Relations and Immunities Act 1967. I welcome that it does not include an amendment to section 47 of that Act, as had initially been included in the heads of the Bill. Head 5 of the Bill sought to amend section 47 by inserting “tribunal or other adjudicatory body or administrative authority” after “in proceedings in any court”. In a positive development during pre-legislative scrutiny work, the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland, MRCI, pointed out that this would extend immunity to the workplace relations bodies on matters of employment, which would be problematic and would reduce workers’ rights and possible entitlements. It is critically important that employ- 783 Seanad Éireann ers, including embassies, are held to account by the employment laws of the State and by the workplace relations bodies. While the issue of diplomatic immunity is contested in these set- tings, the MRCI has been able to file claims on behalf of domestic workers employed by diplomats and has had successful claims heard in the Labour Courts and in other courts. While the original proposed amendment relies on the bodies to decide if immunity extends as a matter of law, the granting of certification in the first instance muddies the water by asserting that immunity applies as a matter of policy. The impact of such a provision could have a disproportionate impact on the rights of workers to due process where their employment rights were deemed to have been breached. It would have also acted contrary to the guidelines on the employment of private domestic employees by accredited members of the mission, as introduced by the De- partment of Foreign Affairs and Trade in 2015. I welcome the fact that such a provision has not been included in this Bill.

There is no problem with the vast majority of embassies, as we know, but major issues have arisen in a few well documented and controversial cases. Between 2008 and 2014 the MRCI referred nine cases to An Garda Síochána of alleged human trafficking for the purposes of forced labour involving domestic workers employed in embassies and diplomatic households. In one of the more prominent cases, a 17-year old girl travelled to Ireland to work for a diplomat’s family, having been told that she would be able to work part-time and pursue her studies. On arrival, however, she found that she would be required to be the sole carer of a child with severe special needs. Her day apparently started at 5.30 a.m. and her employer assaulted her when she asked to use the phone to call her family. This was all documented. The girl was not paid for her three years of work and, worryingly, she has yet to be compensated. Another case involved three Asian women who were brought to Dublin as domestic workers for a diplomat and his family. These women worked for an average of 108 hours a week, with two of them paid €134 per month and the third paid approximately €160 per month because she had been working for the family for longer. Anyone reading the details of these cases in the newspapers would have been shocked and horrified that this could happen in Ireland in the 21st century. Human rights workers in this area have said that because such domestic workers lose their visa status when they leave the employ of the embassy staff member, many feel bound to their employer and may be forced to stay in exploitative situations as a result. This is an anomaly that needs to be addressed. I thank the Domestic Workers Action Group, DWAG, for doing so much work in this area to highlight these difficulties. Under the Department’s new guidelines, diplomats have to sign a contract agreeing to pay minimum wages; link workers with the MRCI; and allow for labour inspections. This is significant and extremely welcome. We know, however, that en- forcement remains problematic due to protections provided by diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961.

I have deep concerns about Part 3, section 9, which seeks to amend the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956 to provide that any period of time spent in the State while exempt from immigration controls, as domestic workers in embassies are, is not reckonable for residency in the context of naturalisation. We believe that this is an important right that should not be undermined or interfered with in this way. It also contradicts other important recent amendments to immigration laws which support those workers. I will seek to introduce an amendment on Committee Stage in that regard.

We also have problems with section 9(d). I know they are shared with the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland and lawyers in the field. I thank them for discussing this Bill with us and offering their opinions. The first issue is that the number of citizenship applications, which include

784 29 November 2017 a period of residence to which section 2(1A) of the Immigration Act 2004 applies, is negligible and is not sufficient to warrant or necessitate the inclusion of section 9(d) in the Bill, as proposed.

The second issue is that the Minister has absolute discretion in deciding to grant citizenship. The requirement for sufficient reckonable residence is only one of the criteria which must be considered. As such, section 9(d) is unnecessary and is in fact disproportionate in light of the stated objective and would have a negative impact on a vulnerable group of people.

A number of well-documented cases of exploitation and human trafficking of diplomatic staff such as private domestic employees has arisen in Ireland. The staff found themselves in need of humanitarian leave to remain or were identified as victims of human trafficking.

The third issue is that Irish case law supports taking a more flexible and progressive approach in cases involving serious rights violations and the leaning away from rigid standardisa- tion. In such cases a more proactive, flexible and rights-based approach is required. Section 9(d) only serves to restrict further the ability of those most in need of protection to apply for citizenship, its accompanying benefits and increased security.

The removal of the section would also assist the State in fulfilling both its domestic and international obligations in ensuring the promotion and protection of fundamental human rights. Its inclusion undermines our obligations in this regard. As the section has such serious implications I will table amendments on Committee Stage as I would like to see it removed.

Section 10 in Part 3 amends the Immigration Act 2004 to specify particular categories of diplomatic and associated persons who are exempt from mainstream immigration controls. That is welcome because it allows domestic workers in diplomatic missions or diplomatic households to be accompanied by their immediate family members during their posting in the State, which is a positive step. During the pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill, representatives of the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland pointed out that the explanatory note defines domestic workers as inclusive of service staff but that subsections of the legislation were unclear as to whether service staff were included. They requested a subsection to specify that a member of the private staff is inclusive of service staff. I welcome that section 10 inserts subsection (1A)(b) which expressly specifies that private servants are included. I welcome the fact that officials in the Department are listening as part of the pre-legislative scrutiny of legislation and are taking ideas on board.

Section 11 of Part 3 amends the Employment Permits Act 2003 to permit a foreign national family member of a foreign government employee on posting to the State who falls within the terms of a bilateral agreement entered into with another government to access the labour market without the need for an employment permit. That is a sensible and welcome amendment. It makes Ireland a much more welcoming place. However, we must ask about the situation regarding domestic workers in embassies and diplomatic households who are currently bound to their employers. If they try to leave, they lose their legal right to reside and work in the State. Should they not be included in an amendment to the Employment Permits Act 2003 and be allowed to apply for other jobs in the State? I am interested in hearing the Minister’s views in this regard, and that is something I might propose on Committee Stage. I bprionsabal, cuireann muid fáilte roimh cuid mhaith de na forálacha atá sa Bhille seo ach tá roinnt deacrachtaí againn agus beidh muid ag cur leasuithe chun cinn ar Chéim an Choiste.

29/11/2017FFF00200Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (Deputy Ciarán

785 Seanad Éireann Cannon): I thank each and every Senator for their contributions and support for the general thrust of the Bill. Senator Joe O’Reilly mentioned the skills and commitment of staff across the diplomatic missions, in particular in the EU in the context of the work they are doing on Brexit. I echo those words. My experience of visiting a number of diplomatic missions, not alone in the EU but across the United States, is that we have an extraordinarily talented and committed team of people in each of those locations who work morning, noon and night in Ireland’s interests. It is certainly the case that, in terms of Brexit and the need to keep Ireland’s interests at the very heart of the ongoing negotiations, our diplomatic missions across the EU are doing an extraordinary job and making people very much aware of the unique challenges we face as a country and how best our EU partners can work with us in addressing them.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh raised some valid points to which I will respond. The general thrust of the legislation is to bring the human resources issues that arise in diplomatic missions in this country and in our missions abroad into line with international best practice. Senator Ó Clo- chartaigh posed some questions which I will address individually. He asked why we are seeking to exclude members of diplomatic missions and their families from mainstream immigration and citizenship arrangements. In accordance with international best practice, in the norm, members of those missions and their families are required to be exempted from the normal immigration controls, as one might expect. That is the case under international law, including under the Vienna Convention. Consequently, there is no application process for those individuals to come to the State, with the sending state effectively at liberty to appoint staff of its own choosing. Such staff also enjoy extensive tax exemptions, including in relation to PAYE, USC, local property tax and in some cases VAT. Clearly, that is a category of people who are quite distinct from those who come to the State through the normal mainstream immigration chan- nels.

Eligibility for citizenship is a matter for each state to decide individually. Ireland shares the view with many countries that the spirit of the Vienna Convention envisages people coming to the State as employees of a foreign government for a finite period and then returning to that country or other country on assignment. In those circumstances it is considered appropriate to exclude them from mainstream citizenship arrangements, just as they are exempt from immigration controls, one being a logical corollary of the other. In effect, employees of foreign governments are deemed to the responsibility of those governments.

All speakers spoke about the importance of ensuring that we protect the employment rights of all the staff working in diplomatic missions on Irish soil. They cited some rare but significant abuses of such workers’ rights in the past. Senator Ó Clochartaigh inquired whether a member of staff of a diplomatic mission whose right to remain in the State is linked to his or her employment could in itself lead to potential vulnerability to exploitation. A number of safeguards are in place to guard against that, including the Department’s procedures to protect domestic workers in diplomatic households that were introduced in 2014. It should also be recalled that there have been instances where former staff members of diplomatic missions have been permitted to remain in the State on humanitarian grounds following the completion of their posting and thus entering the mainstream immigration system. Such requests will always be considered sympa- thetically, taking into account the individual circumstances of each application. All workers in the State under the Vienna Convention have the same access as other workers to the full range of support services for victims of human trafficking.

Senator Ó Clochartaigh asked about the number of people the Bill will affect directly. We have done a trawl and have come to the conclusion that 1,174 persons have been notified to the 786 29 November 2017 Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade under the Vienna Convention in diplomatic relations. That includes people working with diplomatic missions as well as their family members. We do not have a precise figure for staff and family members of international organisations within the State because there is no notification requirement akin to the Vienna Convention, but it is estimated to be several hundred. In total, that would mean there are approximately 2,000 people to whom the provision might apply.

I again thank Senators for their contributions. This is a very deliberate attempt to bring existing legislation into line with international best practice. I also thank my colleagues in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade who have worked hard in drafting the legislation. I hope we will see it move quickly through the Houses and become law.

Question put and agreed to.

29/11/2017FFF00400Acting Chairman (Senator Frank Feighan): When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

29/11/2017FFF00500Senator Joe O’Reilly: On Thursday next.

Committee Stage ordered for Thursday, 7 December 2017.

Sitting suspended at 7.50 p.m. and resumed at 8 p.m.

29/11/2017HHH00100Garda Overtime Budget: Statements

29/11/2017HHH00200An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flana- gan, and have the pleasure of calling on him to speak.

29/11/2017HHH00300Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Charles Flanagan): I welcome the opportunity to debate the position relating to Garda overtime. At the outset, the allocation and management of the overtime budget is the responsibility of the acting Garda Commissioner, having due regard to his operational needs. I am satisfied that Garda management is acutely aware of the need to utilise the resources being made available to it in the most efficient and effective manner so as to ensure high-visibility policing in our communities. This entails proper budgetary planning so that the overtime requirements for any given year can be met in a managed and coherent way. Senators will agree that Garda management must continue to deliver on the extensive Garda reform programme that is under way and extract maximum benefit from the opportunities presented by that programme, which is supported by unprecedented levels of public funding.

Senators may be aware that I am due to present a Supplementary Estimate of €44.2 million for the Garda Vote before the select committee tomorrow morning, which is intended to address the requirements of the Vote for 2017. Without getting into too much technical detail, this Supplementary Estimate provides for additional expenditure of €58.1 million in gross terms, offset in part by surplus receipts in the Vote of €13.9 million. This provision includes an additional €50.489 million for the pay subhead, including more than €42 million for overtime. This will bring the overtime budget to more than €130 million for 2017. By any standard, this is a significant sum, particularly when compared with the spend in previous years: €91 million in 2016; €56 million in 2015; and €37.7 million in 2014.

787 Seanad Éireann Budget 2018 provides for just under €100 million in overtime next year, so I am at a loss to comprehend the proposition made by some commentators that there is no money to pay for Garda overtime in the run up to Christmas and the end of the year. It is important to note that overtime worked in December actually falls due to be paid from the 2018 budget and, as I have indicated, just under €100 million has been made available for overtime in 2018. I might add that my officials have been in contact with the Garda Commissioner’s office and have been informed that any misunderstanding that has arisen internally regarding the availability of necessary overtime in the period leading up to Christmas has been clarified by the relevant assistant commissioner.

It is also important to note that overtime cannot be taken in isolation from the other resources available to An Garda Síochána. For example, a further 800 gardaí will have been recruited by the end of this year and budget 2018 also provides for this level of continuing recruitment. Provision has also been made for significant civilian recruitment, which will allow for the redeployment of gardaí from behind desks to the front line to do what they have been trained and are being paid to do. Some €1.65 billion has been allocated to the Garda Vote for 2018. This is an increase of approximately 2% over the allocation for 2017 and includes almost €100 million for Garda overtime. Some €1.61 billion was allocated to the Garda Vote for 2017 and €1.55 billion was allocated in 2016. This clearly demonstrates the Government’s commitment to ensuring a strong and visible police presence throughout the country in order to maintain and strengthen community engagement, provide reassurance to citizens and deter crime.

Senators will be aware that to make this a reality for all, the Government has in place a plan to achieve an overall Garda workforce of 21,000 personnel by 2021, comprising 15,000 Garda members, 2,000 reserve members and 4,000 civilians. Taking account of projected retirements, reaching a strength of 15,000 by 2021 will require 2,400 new Garda members to be recruited on a phased basis over the next three years. Since the reopening of the Garda College in Sep- tember 2014, close to 1,400 recruits have attested as members of An Garda Síochána and have been assigned to mainstream duties across the country. Additionally, another 200 trainee gardaí are scheduled to attest next month, which will see Garda numbers, taking account of projected retirements, increase to approximately 13,500 by the end of the year, an increase of 500 since the end of 2016. This will clearly provide significant additional policing hours throughout the country, both in terms of the increase in the number of new gardaí and the redeployment of significant numbers of gardaí to front-line policing duties as a consequence of the increased civilianisation of the organisation. Senators will be aware that increasing the number of civilians in An Garda Síochána is a major element of the wider modernisation programme. The proposed increase in the strength of the Garda Reserve will contribute strongly to available policing hours. I expect this unprecedented level of recruitment for An Garda Síochána will, over a period, alleviate the pressure on the overtime budget.

I want to make it clear that this Government has not been found wanting in providing resources to An Garda Síochána. It is incumbent on Garda management to manage effectively and efficiently the significant resources being made available to them. My Department will, of course, be keeping all aspects of the Garda budget under close review in conjunction with Garda management during the course of 2018.

29/11/2017JJJ00200Senator Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank the Minister for coming here this evening. He has great skill in talking about everything but the subject matter. This relates to the statement issued by Mr. Pat Leahy, the assistant Garda commissioner for the Dublin metropolitan area. It is the statement about which we are all concerned. There was a brief reference to it----- 788 29 November 2017

29/11/2017JJJ00300An Leas-Chathaoirleach: These are statements on the Garda overtime budget.

29/11/2017JJJ00400Senator Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Yes, but the most pressing issue is the statement-----

29/11/2017JJJ00500An Leas-Chathaoirleach: One is entitled to say what one wishes to, within limits.

29/11/2017JJJ00600Senator Lorraine Clifford-Lee: -----issued by Assistant Commissioner Pat Leahy relating to no overtime being authorised until the new year. That is what concerns people today. He sent a notification to the chief superintendents in the Dublin area yesterday stating that no overtime is authorised and any operations intended on an overtime basis are cancelled. He stated the Garda budget for 2017 has been exhausted and all operations, events, searches, arrests, etc., for the remainder of 2017 will be performed by working units.

The Minister stated, “I am at a loss to comprehend the proposition made by some commentators that there is no money to pay for Garda overtime in the run up to Christmas”, but he should not be at a loss given the statement sent by Assistant Commissioner Leahy to the chief superintendents. It clearly states the Garda budget for 2017 has been exhausted and all operations intended on an overtime basis are cancelled. That would include up to the end of December.

29/11/2017JJJ00700Deputy Charles Flanagan: That is not true. I made that clear in my address.

29/11/2017JJJ00800Senator Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I understand that but it still does not take away from this fact and it is what we must clarify today. Similar statements were sent to Galway and Cork. The Taoiseach told the Dáil this morning there is funding for overtime in December. He was keen to understand yesterday’s public announcement a bit better. Does the Minister have any understanding of how this announcement came to be made? It is astonishing that the assistant commissioner would make such a statement and if there was enough money available, it should not be the case that the message would be sent around. It raised alarm bells right across the country and people became deeply concerned. Was the Department aware such a message was being sent to members of the force and was the assistant commissioner aware the Supplemen- tary Estimate is due before the committee tomorrow? If not, why was that the case?

This leads to the level of joined-up thinking that exists between Garda management, which is charged with managing the budget, and the Department, which holds the purse strings. It is outrageous that Garda management would not know how much money it had or what was being made available to fund overtime. There was real fear right across the country when this was reported. I understand there was a misunderstanding as the budget was due to be renewed in December but nevertheless this is the message that was sent around. Either way, December is the busiest month of the year and gardaí need to operate at full force. The message sent the wrong signal to criminals and communities across the country. I would appreciate the Minister providing some answers in this respect.

29/11/2017JJJ00900Senator Michael McDowell: I welcome the Minister to the House. Like Senator Clifford- Lee, I believe questions are to be asked. I appreciate that the Minister is putting a good gloss on what happened and that it has been a tough week for him. There is no doubt that Assistant Commissioner Leahy’s statement went out and the reaction from the public was one of dismay. There was a reaction among many gardaí, who were worried about anticipated earnings in De- cember - whether they are paid in December or January - being seriously diminished.

The Taoiseach said words to the same effect as what I will say about this. It is not rocket 789 Seanad Éireann science to divide the overtime budget into 12 monthly pieces. It is not rocket science to keep that monthly budget. It should not be the case that one would arrive at the beginning of Decem- ber in a position where an assistant commissioner would be under the impression - I presume because he was told as much - that the entire Garda overtime budget had been exhausted. I fully appreciate the points made by the Minister and the Taoiseach that overtime expenditure in the Garda Síochána is an integral part of proper policing. I accept the proposition that it is not an indication of a deficient force that there is significant overtime expenditure. When we are examining how the Garda is managed, this kind of mess should not arise.

I know the Supplementary Estimate for public services is to be moved shortly in the Dáil. When did the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform give sanction for that to be done? Did anybody think it might not be done?

I fully appreciate that the enhanced rate of recruitment to An Garda Síochána over the next three years at the rate of 800 per year is necessary to bring the strength of the force up to 15,000 and provide for anticipated retirements. I also welcome the progress being made in respect of civilianisation because one of my biggest disappointments after I left the office of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was the slowdown in civilianisation and the poor progress made in that regard.

The Minister mentioned the Garda Reserve. It was established with some difficulty and in the face of a considerable degree of hostility. I regret to inform the House that a very considerable number of reservists are deeply disillusioned by how they are being treated. They are being neglected, marginalised and left to feel stupid for turning up to assist. That is totally wrong. I led members of the Irish media to Chester in England when the Garda Reserve was being proposed and introduced them to reservists there. I remember in particular a woman who was an intensive care nurse, which is a busy job, as well as a reservist. Her commitment to her voluntary assistance to the police impressed us all, particularly the journalists who travelled with our party. The Garda Representative Association, GRA, must be told in no uncertain terms that there should be no boycotting, neglecting, bullying or marginalising of reservists. They are there to help and are not a threat to anybody’s earnings, as the Minister’s figures show.

Reservists are the means for the Garda Síochána to have local roots. The Minister will appreciate, perhaps more so than a Dublin Senator such as myself, that it is highly disturbing for those in rural communities to be policed by people who live 70, 80 or 90 miles away, commute to work each day, drive around the locality in squad cars and seem to have no local roots. That is almost inevitable in the modern world because the idea of gardaí living above the station is more or less dead, with the exception of Riverstown in Sligo and a few other places. How- ever, if gardaí are to exercise their functions 60, 70 or 80 miles from home, there needs to be a counter-balance in terms of local roots for An Garda Síochána and the best thing to do in that regard would be to increase the size of the Reserve. It is not solely a matter for rural Ireland, as there are places in Dublin that need reservists. There are communities in Dublin in which it would be a great benefit to the community and to the image of An Garda Síochána within that community were reservists to be recruited.

I strongly believe that 2,000 is not enough and there should be 4,000. Garda management should be encouraged to improve the lot of reservists to make them feel appreciated, that their voluntary service has a purpose, and to end the feeling of despair among some, which I am sorry to say I have received letters detailing, that they have chosen to go through a period of training and the end result is that they have been left twiddling their thumbs in Garda stations, wonder- 790 29 November 2017 ing why they are there at all.

29/11/2017KKK00200Senator Martin Conway: I welcome the Minister to the House in a week that has not been easy for him. However, there are no easy weeks when one is Minister for Justice and Equality and it has, in many ways, been just another week. The circular was circulated and it could be said that whoever was responsible for that jumped the gun because if he or she had done more research, he or she would have realised that the problem, if there was one and I doubt there was, happens every year in December and was absolutely going to be resolved because the situation would not be tolerated.

As regards the allocation of overtime, the Minister has gone through the increased moneys for Garda overtime every year but the responsibility of how overtime is allocated is a responsibility for the acting Garda commissioner and the senior management team in Garda headquarters. If the Minister was directing how and where money should be spent on overtime, there would be a completely different narrative in the House. It would be very inappropriate for the Minister to have any hand, act or part in directing the Garda on the operational allocation of overtime.

The most worrying aspect is that the document was leaked, which should not have happened. The leak was inappropriate and was an attempt to frighten communities and cause some sort of consternation. It was highly irresponsible because, as we know, it was just a certain procedure that happens in the run-up to Christmas. We need to consider the issue in its totality and be realistic and reasonable. No division of the Garda Síochána was going to be left without overtime and in my view, although I am not based in Garda headquarters, the circular was very premature.

29/11/2017KKK00300Senator Máire Devine: I welcome the speed with which the Minister was able to come to the Seanad to discuss issues, albeit only to deal with statements, to which Senators never get answers. It is in stark contrast to the time that has been spent trying to get the Taoiseach to come to the House. It is good and correct to have the senior Minister in the Chamber. We are usually fobbed off with a junior Minister who has nothing to do with the brief that Senators wish to discuss. I hope I will be more successful in getting answers to my questions than in recent times in the Chamber. I imagine the term “statements” is something of a misnomer.

I thank the Minister for his clarification. The money was speedily and conveniently found, apparently down the back of the sofa. Why did the Garda assistant commissioner state that there was no money for overtime? As the Minister has said, the assistant commissioner is responsible for the management of overtime. Is there a fractious relationship with the Depart- ment? There is always an agenda at play, and one wonders what it is in this case, given the serious dysfunction that was uncovered and played out in the past week. There are reports that the overtime provision made in budget 2018 can kick in by next Monday and overtime will be reinstated. However, the force cannot eat into 2018 funds now because that will leave it in the same position at this time next year. If this happens every year, as Senator Conway has said but about which I am unclear, we need to change the date. It is borrowing from the future to pay for the present and that is unsustainable, poor financial management and putting a sticking plaster over the problem. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, yesterday insisted on €5.5 billion being paid back early to the IMF, stating that the Exchequer is in a healthy financial position, with €20 billion in cash and liquid assets. Surely, we could take a few million from that. The Dáil has approved an extra €42 million for overtime but that is largely to pay for the November overtime bill. It beggars belief that the Government has put money before the needs 791 Seanad Éireann of the people, particularly those in Dublin. It is acknowledged that during the darker nights in the run-up to Christmas, with households stocking up for Santa and family gatherings, there is a greater risk of crime. The assistant Garda Commissioner stated at a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts, PAC, last week that in my locality of Dublin South-Central, Ballyfermot and the inner city were a priority for extra police, not Stepaside. This seems to be another division between the Minister and the assistant Garda Commissioner. I am not sure what the agenda is but perhaps it is to do with the news we have been dealing with all week. I acknowledge that it is a priority to continue to police the violent destructive gangs and residents in Dublin South-Central are well used to armed checkpoints. We must ask, however, what protection is given to ordinary law abiding citizens from day to day crime.

I conducted a survey in Dublin South-Central and at the top of that survey was lack of gardaí. People there are at the mercy of drug gangs and increasingly dangerous and fatal anti- social behaviour. That stood out in each area. It does not make any sense that the Government did not allocate enough funding for the police to do their job at one of the busiest times in the year. It is not in the interest of public safety. I ask the Minister to respond urgently to the needs of the people of Dublin and the gardaí and to find extra money, which I believe he has done, very speedily in the past few hours, to lift the ban on overtime. The only solution is to provide gardaí. That is the only solution acceptable to Dublin and elected representatives throughout the country.

We need a proper budget to ensure this does not happen again. The definition of madness is to keep doing it again and again. Senator Conway has said it always happens at this time of year but it seems ludicrous that it has not been addressed.

29/11/2017LLL00200Senator Martin Conway: I am not saying it only about the Garda but about other Depart- ments.

29/11/2017LLL00300Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh: The whole Government is in chaos.

29/11/2017LLL00400Senator Martin Conway: We need multi-annual funding badly.

29/11/2017LLL00500Senator Máire Devine: The stability of An Garda Síochána may be a bit wobbly because it has an acting Commissioner. Where are the reforms that were promised? It needs a good anchor. That will be some time coming.

In the interest of front-line workers doing a job most of us would find far too difficult and demanding, why are the gardaí, like other front-line workers, filling in the gaps with overtime? The people of the entire island need protection and we need to make sure we can pay for that.

29/11/2017LLL00600Senator Frances Black: I thank the Minister for coming in today. I appreciate his coming in personally because this has been a tough week. While the credibility of An Garda Síochána as an organisation has been repeatedly called into question in recent years, I believe that Irish people still have a lot of trust and belief in their local community Garda. This trust has been fought for and won over several decades of work and partnership. I welcome the fact that the Minister says the money for overtime payments has been allocated.

There are, however, some issues I want to raise. First, there are simply not enough gardaí. According to the Garda Representative Association, GRA, in order to have a similar level of policing in Ireland as in Scotland it is estimated that 17,000 gardaí are required nationwide. Today there are only 13,400. The Minister mentioned a major national recruitment campaign in recent 792 29 November 2017 months but that has yet to really make itself clear in the form of gardaí on the streets and working in communities. That is my concern. We are still almost 4,000 gardaí short of what we need for a fully effective police force. Second, we need to acknowledge that we have been over reliant on overtime. It is not sustainable to run an understaffed organisation by asking those limited staff to regularly work extra hours. Overtime is used to facilitate major operations and public gatherings, which there are more of at this time of year coming into the Christmas season, when more alcohol is drunk. Overtime pay should ideally be used in extraordinary circumstances, recognising that for some unforeseen reason, gardaí are being asked to work above and beyond their normal duties, and for a limited period. It should not be used as standard, which is what we hear from gardaí on this issue. It is not a sustainable solution to the shortages, and in an ideal world there would be very little or no requirement to use that budget pot at all. We are relying on it, however, to top up the workforce and we need to address it. The announcement today by the assistant commissioner that this budget has been exhausted was quite alarming.

I would like to consider Garda working conditions and rights. Gardaí have very little ability to negotiate collectively with their employer, the State, as it does not allow them the right to truly unionise, and for those unions to be able to attend the Workplace Relations Commission, and the Labour Court. Collective bargaining would also allow rank and file gardaí to have a real say in the future reforms and improvements in the police force, providing the real expertise necessary to achieve the ideal gardaí of the future. Surely this is something we should at least seriously consider.

Almost all other workers in Ireland have these rights, and while the prospect of Garda strikes, or other industrial action is a very frightening one, the onus is on the State, and on the Department of Justice and Equality in particular, to do everything we can to listen to them and to ensure their working conditions are sufficient for them to do their duty excellently and to continue to benefit from the trust people place in them. There are obvious and serious problems in An Garda Síochána at present, and I do not intend to rehash the debates we have already had on breath tests, Templemore or the appalling treatment of whistleblowers. These events have been truly shocking to witness, and have undermined public trust in An Garda Síochána and the Department of Justice and Equality. In a majority of cases, gardaí of quite senior rank were ultimately responsible for these decisions. Recently we also learned that the Policing Authority does not believe that An Garda Síochána actually has the capacity to implement the reforms recommended in the ‘Changing Policing in Ireland’ report. This is a matter of grave concern for us all and we need to take action. In the long term, it is absolutely essential that we get back to work on reforming the entire police force. We need to ensure that our people are safe, that there are enough gardaí on the streets, and that those gardaí feel as protected as possible in performing their duties.

29/11/2017LLL00700Senator Kevin Humphreys: I welcome the Minister here this evening. I am grateful that he came in. This morning I thought it important to table the motion for the Minister to come in to debate this serious issue. Most people who listened to “Morning Ireland” this morning heard reports that there was no budget for overtime for gardaí until the end of December. That has been clarified during the day. It is quite worrying that there would be confusion about that budget. Reading online I see that gardaí report being sent home. They were rostered for overtime last night but were sent home when they reported for duty. Did that happen last night? Were gardaí who reported to work or expected to work after their shift requested to leave the station and go home? That was reported in the media today.

Will the Minister address the reports that went online this afternoon from several national 793 Seanad Éireann newspapers, to the effect that no funding would be available for Garda overtime until Monday? Today is Wednesday. There remains Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Are the finances available to the inspectors in the stations? Can the Minister send out a loud and clear message that there is cash available for gardaí to work overtime? This is a very important period in the capital and many other cities. These reports were not just about Dublin. They referred to other major urban centres as well.

Before the Minister came into the House I rang several gardaí and asked if they were aware of those instructions being withdrawn and whether they expected to go back to work overtime. Some were on duty and said they had no information. As far as they were aware the statement they heard on ‘Morning Ireland’ was the position. They do not expect to do overtime any time soon. Overtime is part and parcel of the working practice of a police force. I accept, as Senator McDowell said, that an exceptional amount of overtime is being done but we know why that has happened. Unfortunately, the training college was closed down by Fianna Fáil and we lost a number of years of input of new gardaí in addition to retirements. Thankfully, the Fine Gael- Labour Party Government was able to re-open the training college and we have seen a number of new gardaí coming onto the beat.

I have huge admiration for the ordinary garda on the street who puts his or her life on the line on a weekly basis to protect the public. They must have a certain amount of confidence in their superiors so that, if they are given information by commissioners, they know it is truthful and factual. At the time, was the instruction that there was no funding for overtime until the end of December truthful and factual? Gardaí have to have trust in their superiors.

This has done the morale of the force no good whatsoever. Let us think of a garda sitting at home listening to news reports all day long saying there is no cash for overtime, yet that garda is rostered for overtime in the coming days and weeks. We cannot have this. I know the Min- ister and senior gardaí were distracted over the last couple of days but we cannot allow this to happen.

We have huge admiration for the community gardaí who are operating from Ballyfermot to Ballymun and from Ringsend to Phibsborough, who go out daily and work to build up trust. However, we then see their morale torn apart by what the Minister seems to be saying are false reports. If they are false, action has to be taken. We cannot allow the morale of our gardaí to be destroyed in such a cavalier fashion. They have to be able to plan their lives in some way. They are ordinary workers, like ourselves, and they need to know when they will be working overtime and to have reasonable notification. They should not have to listen to the radio in the morning saying, “Gone, gone, gone. You are doing nothing until next January.” That is totally unacceptable.

While the Minister is in the House I will ask him a question which I do not expect him to respond to now but to take it away and think about it. We have seen rising traffic levels right across the major urban centres and the roads are getting busier and busier. In the past, during the month of December we had Operation Freeflow, where garda recruits came up to the city and helped traffic to move, kept the bus lanes and yellow boxes clear, and assisted in regard to breathalyser tests, drink driving and all of that. We need that now. The traffic levels in Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick are back to the pre-boom era levels. We want to see our citizens getting to work safely and quickly and to make sure there are adequate breathalyser test resources. I suggest that the Minister would have a discussion in the next day or two with the Minister for transport, Deputy Ross, and consider using the Garda recruits in the urban centres 794 29 November 2017 to ensure the traffic moves during this busy period. It is important for the traders in those cities and towns that traffic moves and that shoppers can get in and spend their money, and create a little bit of prosperity and further employment. The Minister should take that message away tonight and consider how he could work with the Minister, Deputy Ross, to ensure that, as far as possible, the traffic in our major urban centres flows. I would be grateful if the Minister could come back to me on that issue.

In regard to the reports on the Garda overtime ban, I ask the Minister to be very clear and to the point. Alarms bells go off with me when I hear, “It is the responsibility of the Garda Com- missioner”. I certainly do not want to start asking FOI questions to the Minister’s Department in regard to what correspondence was sent by the Garda Commissioner in regard to overtime. The Minister has put the money in place. Let the message go out tonight from this House that there is no problem with money and that there is money to pay for overtime tonight, tomorrow night, Saturday night and Sunday night, and that gardaí can at least be assured they are not going to be turned around and told, “Go home. We haven’t the money to pay for you.”

29/11/2017MMM00200Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Charles Flanagan): I want to thank Senator Humphreys and other Members for tabling this motion and giving me the opportunity to reply to statements by way of clarification. I am very pleased to do this because this is a very serious topic and it is only right I would have the opportunity to reply to the questions raised, which is why I am here.

I am very concerned to ensure that any misunderstanding in regard to Garda overtime and the commitment on the part of the Government to ensure An Garda Síochána is properly re- sourced is fully clarified. I am due to present a Supplementary Estimate of €44.2 million tomorrow morning for the Garda Vote before the select committee which is intended to address the requirements of the Vote for 2017. I want to be clear. There is absolutely no ban on Garda overtime in the period leading up to Christmas. Any overtime worked during any day in De- cember actually falls due to be paid from the 2018 budget, in any event. There will be gardaí on the streets, and I wish to assure Seanadóirí that gardaí on the streets will be fully paid their basic salary and overtime requirements.

Almost €100 million has been provided for Garda overtime for 2018. I want to reassure people who may have been upset when they heard these reports on the matter. I want to acknowledge that media reports often have a tendency to take on a life of their own. However, the reality is that officials in my Department were in contact with the office of the Garda Com- missioner and they have been informed that any misunderstanding that has arisen internally in regard to the availability of the necessary overtime in the period leading up to Christmas has been clarified by the relevant assistant commissioner.

I want to reiterate that Garda management must continue to deliver on the extensive Garda reform programme. I had an opportunity to discuss this in the course of this year’s Seanad and I would be happy to come back in the new year and provide Senators with an update on the Garda reform programme. This will ensure there will be maximum benefit from the opportunities presented by that programme which, as I stated earlier, is supported by an unprecedented level of public funding. That programme of reform will be facilitated by the Government’s vision of an overall Garda workforce of 21,000 personnel by 2021.

I want to assure Senator McDowell that I will certainly take on board his comments regarding the Garda Reserve. This is an issue I have addressed recently in the context of discussions 795 Seanad Éireann with An Garda Síochána. I believe there is a hugely positive role to be played by members of the Garda Reserve on the basis that visibility is the key to reassurance for the public. I feel we can be doing much more. While Senator McDowell would like to see an ambitious plan of up to 4,000 members of the Garda Reserve, I would be happy to look at that after the planned expansion of the reserve to 2,000 members. I believe it is critical that we use the resource that is the Garda Reserve in order to support visible policing. With this in mind, I remind Members there is currently a strategic review under way regarding the role of the Garda Reserve and what it might do to further augment and support the Garda Síochána. I expect that review to be completed by the end of this year and, again, I would be happy to discuss the matter in the Seanad.

I assure Senator Clifford-Lee there will be sufficient funding available to allow for Garda overtime in the run-up to Christmas. She is right about the necessity to ensure this overtime is fully utilised, having regard to the Christmas season.

I have stated that the assistant commissioner has clarified the position internally today. We must acknowledge that the memorandum concerned and referred to by Senators is an internal memorandum. It was designed to inform chief superintendents on the need to manage their budgets. As I have stated, December overtime is paid in January but there should not be any curb, having regard to the internal clarification that was received this evening.

I wish to clarify for Senator Humphreys, who raised the issue in the first instance, that the Government has not been found wanting in the provision of resources to An Garda Síochána. It is incumbent on Garda management to manage effectively and efficiently the resources that have been made available. Senator Conway is right that I do not decide what members of the Garda do overtime in any particular part of the country. If I did, I feel I would be subject to both scrutiny and sanction here in this House. I do not intend to either seek or adopt such a role.

I thank Senators for raising the issue and hope I have provided a measure of clarification. In conjunction with Garda management, we will be keeping all aspects of the Garda budget under close review during the course of 2018.

I will get back to Senator Humphreys. I expect there is something in train along the lines he mentioned. I am happy to speak to him in the next few days about it.

29/11/2017NNN00200Senator Martin Conway: I thank the Minister for his contribution this evening.

29/11/2017NNN00250An Leas-Chathaoirleach: When is it proposed to sit again?

29/11/2017NNN00275Senator Martin Conway: At 10.30 a.m. tomorrow.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.55 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 30 November 2017.

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