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Table of Contents Item Transcript DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Ion Degen. Full, unedited interview, 2008 ID IS012.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4m54t ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN TABLE OF CONTENTS ITEM TRANSCRIPT ENGLISH TRANSLATION 2 CITATION & RIGHTS 17 2021 © BLAVATNIK ARCHIVE FOUNDATION PG 1/17 BLAVATNIKARCHIVE.ORG DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Ion Degen. Full, unedited interview, 2008 ID IS012.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4m54t ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN TRANSCRIPT ENGLISH TRANSLATION —Today is March 14, 2008. We are in Tel-Aviv’s Givatayim district, visiting a veteran of the Great Patriotic War. Please introduce yourself and tell us about your life before the war, about your family, how you came to serve in the army, and how you spent the war. Please, go ahead. I will do my best. I was born on . —Please introduce yourself. My name is Ion Degen. I was born on July 4, 1925 in the city of Mogilev-Podolsky [Mohyliv-Podilskyi] on the Dniester River in the Vinnytsia Region of Ukraine, formerly on the border with Romania. I lived in that city for sixteen years. My father was a well-known paramedic, but he passed away when I was three years old, leaving me and my mother to fend for ourselves. Life was . well, you know what life was like before the war. My mother worked as a nurse at the hospital and earned a measly wage. We survived the famous famine of 1932-33, in which we nearly perished. When I was twelve, I began working as a blacksmith’s apprentice. I had an excellent teacher named Feder, who taught me many things for which I am thankful to this day. I was a physically fit lad, very sturdy. We were well-schooledin the arts of war because we lived right on the border. I was good at firing from different types of firearms and could throw a grenade pretty well. When the war began I had just completed nine grades of school and began working as a counselor at a Young Pioneers camp. When war broke out on Sunday, June 22, I went to the city Komsomol organization in order to volunteer for the front, but nobody was there so I went to the military enlistment office. However, nobody wanted to talk to me and I was told to wait for a draft summons. I was told I still need to wait another two years. I decided to evacuate my mother and purposely fell behind the train because when I suggested volunteering for the army she became hysterical. This is understandable, of course. My mother did not throw herself on machine-gun nests. I contacted the headquarters of the 130th Rifle Division in Mogilev-Podolsky and was made a soldier in a destruction battalion within that division. After a few days . I was given supplies: a carbine, 120 rounds, and four RGD grenades. My platoon was made up of Red Army regulars. Fighting started in early July, but I cannot remember the exact date. In addition to battlefield casualties we also had some absolutely inexplicable losses. Our platoon members disappeared one after another, probably deserted, and after some time I became the commander of the platoon. I was wounded while fighting between Uman and Khrystynivka, and even have a medal for the defense of 2021 © BLAVATNIK ARCHIVE FOUNDATION PG 2/17 BLAVATNIKARCHIVE.ORG DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Ion Degen. Full, unedited interview, 2008 ID IS012.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4m54t ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN Kiev [Kyiv], despite having not even seen Kiev at that time. It was a light wound, the bullet went straight through my right hip. My friend and I took nineteen days to escape from encirclement. When we swam across the Dnieper I thought that we had finally escaped after not eating for nineteen days. I had only one bandage that I kept reusing, so my leg was in a bad shape. However, it turned out that the Germans were on the eastern bank of the Dnieper as well. I was saved by the Ukrainian Hryhoriuk family. After spending several days with them, I was secretly transported on a series of horse drawn carts. I don’t know where we crossed the front line, but I wound up in a hospital in Poltava. They wanted to amputate my leg there, but I did not give them permission to do so, after which they sent me to a hospital in the southern Urals. After receiving a light wound I spent five months in hospital until being discharged on January 21, 1942. Even after I was seriously wounded in 1942, I only spent two months in the hospital, not five and a half like after the light injury. This goes to show what the categories "light" and "serious" mean. I was released from hospital in January of 1942. I was only sixteen and a half years old, so the army did not want to take me back. I decided to go south because the day I was released from hospital the temperature outside was -52°C, and I only had a light trench coat that the hospital issued me. I froze to the bone before I got to the freight train car which was taking families to the south. I came to Aktubinsk [Aktobe] and met an acquaintance of mine, Aleksandr Gabu, a captain in the border guards, who sent me to the village of Shromovo in Kharazmovskiy district of Georgia. It is difficult to convey Georgian hospitality. I lived in that village until June 15, 1942 when I found out that an armored train had arrived at the station of Natanebi, only 13 km away. My leg was almost fully healed and my limp was almost gone, so I went to the commander of the train, Major Garkusha and said that I wanted to fight. I showed him my documents, and he deemed me well educated having completed nine grades of school. He asked me if I could put the coordinates of military units on a map. I said I could and he dictated the coordinates to me. It took me only a minute to draw everything on the map, and he told me that I would be his adjutant. I said to him, "If I had wanted to be an orderly, I would have waited for the draft. I want to fight." "Am I not fighting?" he asked me. "I’m sorry comrade major, but I have not seen any majors on the front lines," I replied. He laughed and told me that I will be assigned to a reconnaissance unit. This was a special unit of armored trains, comprised of volunteers, former tank crews, and railroad personnel. The railroad workers were not drafted, they volunteered. The tank crews had served at Khalkhin Gol and Khasan. The recon unit was astounding and when I was eventually appointed its commander, it was a greater honor than all of my medals put together. The people under my command were amazing, just amazing. Every person was a hero. On October 15, I was wounded and was in hospital until December 31 when I was released on New Year’s Eve and sent to the 21st Armored Unit Training Regiment. When I arrived at the regiment’s base in 2021 © BLAVATNIK ARCHIVE FOUNDATION PG 3/17 BLAVATNIKARCHIVE.ORG DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Ion Degen. Full, unedited interview, 2008 ID IS012.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4m54t ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN Shulaveri, Georgia they no longer asked me if I was 18 or not or what I wanted to do. I was sent to train at the 1st Kharkiv Tank Academy, I have a document about completing my training right here. I graduated from the academy in January of 1944 and was sent to the 183rd Tank Factory and received my tank, a crew, and was sent to the 2nd Independent Guards Armored Brigade. I miraculously held on in that brigade until January 21, 1945 through five offensives. This was almost impossible because a guards detached tank brigade is a spearhead unit. There were eleven such units in the Red Army, one on every front. Our mission was to make a gap in the enemy lines through which other armored units could enter. It was unusual to survive one offensive, but after surviving my second one people began calling me lucky. I was the commander of a tank, then an armored platoon, and finally an armored company. On January 21, 1945 I was very seriously wounded by a shell fragment that pierced my skull. The shell fragment is still in my brain. My jaws had been disconnected, I had seven bullet wounds in my arms, and four shrapnel wounds in my legs. You see, I am quite disabled. The next part was very difficult . [Sound cuts out for a minute.] —You finished telling your story, but I still have questions. What do you want to ask? —How and when did your mother find out that you were alive? Ah yes, she found out about that accidentally in so far as things happen accidentally, now I understand that there is a certain order of things. In the fall of 1942 at the station of Murtazovo, or maybe Dokshukino [Nartkala], I cannot remember for certain, I saw the mother of my acquaintance from Mohyliv-Podilskyi. She was sitting at the train station, wearing only a nightgown and freezing. She recognized me immediately, but I did not recognize here right away. She called out to me, and I asked her what she was doing there.
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